division-universe

[woven basalt]

i kinda expect sackoff to show up in the netflix movie, but im sure thats totally based on her character in clone wars jumping mediums into the mandalorian.

[round sinew]

Some new gameplay from XD. Looks really... Not amazing. Hope it gets some more work done.

[analog whale]

eh? xDefiant?

it looks like one of those f2p korean shooters but doesnt run like derp XD

[round sinew]

I hope not. I kinda hate her.

[woven basalt]

NGN released a part one covering the lore of hearts on fire, so for those been waiting for it, its out there.

gonna check it out after an event im observing.

[sleek plover]

Damn I hate LMB

[west dock]

They give True Sons a run for their money

[floral gull]

I might do the audible free trial just for Hearts

its like 5 and a half hours worth of comm collectibles

[round sinew]

Hahaha

What a realistic way to look at it

[tiny wraith]

The audiobook is actually better than I thought

[sacred knoll]

Who cares?

[spare arrow]

?

...he left.

aight

[unreal widget]

There are way too many idiots on this planet.

[ashen jungle]

I'm just still concerned over the person that thinks Chesire' has ever yelled at anyone on this server lol.

[unreal widget]

Hey, I wish it would be true. I should yell more often, maybe that helps. 😂

[spare arrow]

plz no

[unreal widget]

Awwwww, come on! Girls just wanna have fun? 🥺

[ashen jungle]

if you start singing Cindy Lauper, I'm outta here :p

[winged sleet]

Are ghost recon and assassin's creed both part of the divisions universe? I haven't found anything concrete to support it

[spare arrow]

Neither are.

A lot of ubisoft games share a timeline, but Division's has been seperate.

[winged sleet]

I see, shame ghost recon isn't part of it in my opinion

[spare arrow]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[sick lantern]

ghost recon and the division are in the same universe

as well as rainbow six and splinter cell

[winged sleet]

Wait they are?

[sick lantern]

yea

[winged sleet]

Interesting, so ghosts are active I'm guessing

[gaunt ice]

that's gonna be hard to explain

[sick lantern]

the division happens after ghost recon simple as

[ashen jungle]

Gotta love Div, which'll just keep on advancing as long as the game is alive.
by this time next week, it'll be slated to happen in 2049.

Honestly, I wish they'd stop trying to Marvel' it up and just have it separate.

[sleek plover]

I do like the div series, and I admit as much as I hate them, LMB are pretty well designed as villains, and so does cleaners etc

Tbh I really, really wanted a div1 rikers stripe balaclavas

[ashen jungle]

Ya know, you're likely gonna be seeing LMB on the screen soon. Depends how closely the movie sticks to the game I guess.

[sleek plover]

... that I dont like tbh

[gaunt ice]

i mean,if you really hate them that much,that proves how much the writers have succeeded in creating a good villain

[woven basalt]

just saying, the universal unified canon theory is super weak, you have to really believe pretty hard for it to make sense.

mostly because canon is generally a title by title thing, not a franchise by franchise or company catalogue kinda thing.

[ashen jungle]

In this case it's believable, since Ubi' own the license to all of the above.

However, it does require some pretty big leaps to connect them without pretty big issues.

[sick lantern]

How so?

[round sinew]

I...

How long of a book do you need me to write?

Because deadass I'll start with the timeline of games in the 1990s and go all the way to Division 2.

[sick lantern]

feel free

[round sinew]

Maybe later tonight?

It's a lot of information

[sick lantern]

just the important bits then

any major contradictions

[ashen jungle]

Here's my big question, is SHD ever mentioned in any games before 2016?

[sick lantern]

No

[ashen jungle]

I don't wanna say nail meet coffin, but like.

[sick lantern]

I don’t see how that means The Division can’t be connected

maybe we should just wait and see what XDefiant says ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[ashen jungle]

It's just starting to come across a little like the JK Rowling thing, where its after the fact and makes no sense if you think about it.

[sick lantern]

I don’t see how it doesn’t make sense

they’re all set in modern mostly realistic and mundane worlds, there’s no paradigm changing details that mean it shouldn’t be true like with Assassin’s Creed for example

[ashen jungle]

When is Ghost Recon AW 2 set?

[sick lantern]

2014

[ashen jungle]

And what about HAWX? Same timeline.

[sick lantern]

also around 2014

[ashen jungle]

And the sequel that's set a "few years later"?

the plotlines for these are starting to look rather bad for div being canon in the same timeline.

[sick lantern]

a few years after 2014 leaves about a decade for The Division to occur

[ashen jungle]

I promise this is leading somewhere.

Okay so those are still technically possible, even though the story lines in them kinda nuke the idea of regular life before div1.

fair?

[sick lantern]

yea kinda but we can somewhat pick and choose from the old canon to suit the new one

[ashen jungle]

New canon?

did ubi' ever say that they were rebooting the canon?

[sick lantern]

I don’t think Ubisoft cares all too much about EndWar making GRBreakpoint impossible

for example

[ashen jungle]

If they're gonna start pulling stuff out of the canon, it's gonna go all house-of-cards on us.
since its in the same timeline as GRAW.

[round sinew]

Consider canon rebooted after EndWar

[ashen jungle]

GRAW > HAWX 1+2 > EndWar.

[round sinew]

EndWar was the big finale for that era of Tom Clancy game canon.

It tied up HAWX, Splinter Cell, Ghost Recon, and Rainbow Six,

Everything afterwards is a... Reboot, for lack of a better term.

[ashen jungle]

IIRC the term is "soft reboot", which always tick me off.

[round sinew]

They'll go back and pick things every so often, like Sam Fisher or Scott. But-

[round sinew]

This is the best possible description.

[ashen jungle]

I honestly wish they'd just say "div is its own thing" and leave it as that. There's 0 reason to try and tie it in. It nukes every possible future setting for other games, it's already 2021, we're only a few years away from the events happening as-is.

[round sinew]

Oh, it's totally it's own timeline.

[sick lantern]

everyone says they’ve said it but I couldn’t find a source :/

[round sinew]

Until anything supersedes this, the current timelines for Tom Clancy's stuff are: Division, Ryanverse, Net Force, Op-Center, Splinter Cell/Ghost Recon/Rainbow Six

[sick lantern]

who on earth is Trick 🙃

[round sinew]

HAWX and EndWar essentially don't exist. Small details from that era are carried over into the GR/SC/R6 canon.

I think you mentioned Assassin's Creed, too?

As of now, it isn't involved.

[sick lantern]

I said Assassin’s Creed is too contradictory and extreme to fit

[round sinew]

Ah.

The only thing AC is connected to in any way is Watchdogs.

[sick lantern]

(if Assassin’s Creed is shoved in then the SHD are essentially Templars and that’s kinda cool 😤)

[round sinew]

Which is through easter eggs, but very fucking canon Easter eggs. So it's weird Ubisoft maintains they're separate when the easter eggs are canon.

[sick lantern]

yea in Wd1 and AC Black Flag they were very explicit

[round sinew]

And of course there's like Crew, Steep, and RR, which are thankfully left alone to be fun racing games.

[sick lantern]

watch, they’ll find a way

blimp with an LMB advert or something

[round sinew]

Hope not.

Division should be kept self-contained.

Having to retroactively make its canon fit the rest of the Tom Clancy games would be a pain.

This is likely why no SHD agent has appeared in Siege yet.

I am waiting on a Ghost to appear in Siege, though.

Probably Scott or one of the GRAW/GRFS team.

[sick lantern]

I doubt it’ll ever happen

[round sinew]

The same was said about a 4th Echelon agent.

And Sam Fisher now exists in Siege.

Oh. 3rd Echelon. I forgot they've kind of buried that whole "3rd Echelon is evil" plot.

[gaunt ice]

what the

[sick lantern]

I mean in the terms that it’s barely faithful to the source material, it took a few years for the crossover to happen, Splinter Cell is more popular than The Division Ithink?, I doubt canon status is the reason why it hasn’t happened yet

[sick lantern]

If Assassin’s Creed and The Division are in the same universe, then the SHD was created by Templars and suddenly “continuity of government” and the themes of trying to restore order to chaos take on different meanings

[gaunt ice]

it sounds convincing ngl

but with the government now technically disbanded,wouldn't that mean that Faye Lau actually destroyed the DC Templars?

[sick lantern]

well she wouldn’t know that the SHD are Templar agents, it’d be by proxy

[gaunt ice]

and pushed SHD back to be the good guys

so she did win at the end

[ashen jungle]

I guess we avoided the Solar Flare lol

[sick lantern]

Ubisoft have been avoiding that too...

[gaunt ice]

nah leave that to the vr girl with the magical wand

we're not trained for this

[ashen jungle]

the what?

[gaunt ice]

that modern day protag in the newer games

[ashen jungle]

Oh haven't played Odyssey+Valhalla?

[gaunt ice]

something something "Desmond only delayed it"

[sick lantern]

only took them five games

[ashen jungle]

The Solar Flare hit tho.

am i the only one out of the 3 that's played one of the RPG ones?

[round sinew]

No, I have.

[sick lantern]

yea but Black Flag to Odyssey the plot was pretty stagnant

the modern day plot that is

[round sinew]

I've played all 3.

[ashen jungle]

IIRC the term is "spinning their wheels"

[round sinew]

Layla Hassan isn't really a person anymore. She's, uh... Living in a computer now.

[ashen jungle]

Not actually correct, she's in stasis, solving a problem with a certain side-char.
but that's heavy Valhalla spoilers.

[round sinew]

It's not spoilers if nobody cares about Layla.

[ashen jungle]

I dont have an issue with her.
also, i guess most people here picked female Eivor lol.

[round sinew]

I really don't care for her one way or the other.

I didn't care for Desmond, either, though.

[ashen jungle]

the eivor you choose specifies if your protag is male or female outside of the Animus.
but this is getting pretty far off-topic.

[round sinew]

The modern plots in AC, despite being super important, always kind of seem flat.

[round sinew]

Wait really?

[ashen jungle]

Yeah only realised when I saw a run-through of one of the puzzles.
I got close to 100% valhalla so yeah.

wait no i said that wrong

you play as the other guy once the campaign ends.

[round sinew]

Yeah, I knew that.

[ashen jungle]

soz, been awake for too long.

[round sinew]

But that's regardless of whether you choose the right Eivor or the male Eivor

[ashen jungle]

but ANYWAY, getting back on topic.
I think we can safely say that AC is not part of the div timeline due to the Solar Flare alone.

[round sinew]

Or due to literally any other reason, both in-universe and out.

[ashen jungle]

a lot of stuff could be locked down to "it happened in secret", especially if div does take place in 2029 now.

[round sinew]

The best way they could crossover is have Division be separate as a canon, but acknowledge SHD exists in the canon of the other games.

[ashen jungle]

but i did say "alone", like yeah theres a buncha reasons.

[sick lantern]

I said “if” not that it was :p

[round sinew]

Like SHD can exist in GR/SC/R6, but the events of Division doesn't need to happen.

But that would be hard for people to understand

Its hard enough the fact they keep fucking with the overall lore

[sick lantern]

^

[ashen jungle]

Honestly, even GR/SC/R6 being the same timeline just annoys me.
you wont be marvel Ubi', just let it go.

[round sinew]

They tried with Elite Squad and they'll try again with XD.

[sick lantern]

yea but XD is actually a real game not some mobile shite

[round sinew]

It used to make sense back when every Clancy game was in the same universe.

[ashen jungle]

Sam Fisher showing up in GR felt like those TV shows about history where they instantly become friends with a big historical figure.

see also: AC.

[round sinew]

X

[round sinew]

That's how I felt about Kozak showing up in Wildlands

[ashen jungle]

who?

[round sinew]

The player character of Future Soldier.

He shows up in Wildlands.

[ashen jungle]

yeah i didnt touch future solider, and did complete Wildlands. was it a DLC or smth?

[round sinew]

It was the mission that introduced you to the guy's company you would end up going to in Breakpoint

[sick lantern]

ah funny story about wildlands

[ashen jungle]

yeah DLC then.

[sick lantern]

a few years ago, my friend played it and was telling me about the plot

[round sinew]

But it's funny because now they acknowledged Future Soldier is still canon.

[sick lantern]

when he said that that El Sueno “gave up the heads of the cartels for immunity” I thought he meant literally like some satanic ritual :p

[round sinew]

Which takes place in like... 2025ish? Like a year or 2 before Breakpoint.

Which makes sense because the last Breakpoint DLC featured Raven's Rock, the antagonists of Future Soldier

[ashen jungle]

breakpoint is a whole other pile of annoying to me.
why on earth is the char from Wildlands so dumb in it?

[round sinew]

Why on earth did they scrap the game and then force the Devs to keep working on it?

Some things we weren't meant to know

[ashen jungle]

"okay youre a trained operative, for stealth missions, so we're gonna send you in with a massive fleet of choppers"

i like to think Breakpoint is what happened after the Wildlands protag fell off a cliff a few too many times.

[round sinew]

"Also everyone in your team died, and nobody survived. But, uh... Have 3 AI teammates we never mentioned. They survived the crash too!"

[ashen jungle]

didnt one live? the guy with the broken leg.

[round sinew]

By the end of the game, you figure out 2 of your team lived.

[ashen jungle]

wait wait dont tell me

secret bad guy?

[round sinew]

Only the guy in the opening sequence was killed in your team. But the AI teammates are apparently a whole other group of 3 people who lived. Plus the traitor Ghost.

[round sinew]

Nope. Secret POW experiment.

[ashen jungle]

oh jeez, the other one.

[round sinew]

You rescue him in the Sam Fisher missions. Some guy tried to hook his brain up to drones to make an AI and you rescue him. He's a little damaged, but alive.

[ashen jungle]

David Archer?

[round sinew]

Maybe? Breakpoint has so many named enemies, they're a blur.

[ashen jungle]

sorry, ME reference.
couldnt resist.

[round sinew]

Why all these fucking people are on Auroa is the real mystery, and how they all keep showing up.

[ashen jungle]

he had his brain hooked up to a machine to run an AI kinda thing, Hard to explain. Just reminded me of him.

[sick lantern]

isn’t he the prick from CoD Ghosts Extinction

[ashen jungle]

nope, he's the autistic kid-brother in ME2 DLC.

genuinely sad scene too, god i miss those games.

maths savant, poor kid.

[round sinew]

I forgot about him

[ashen jungle]

he actually shows up in 3 if you rescue him in 2 and he thanks you. little teary, ngl.

[sick lantern]

indeed I’ve heard good things but that is also the name of the guy from Extinction and I bring this up because Extinction was awesome

[round sinew]

How come through Division, all the enemy factions have super weapons they build and all you get is 4-8 dudes with smart phones and a gun?

JTF can't find a single functioning tank?

[ashen jungle]

and infinite turrets.

[round sinew]

True Sons can build railway artillery and Cleaners can build an armored napalm thing. LMB has an APC.

JTF has... Nothing?

In the books they have infrastructure, so why can't I get a Stryker to support me?

[ashen jungle]

dont forget that the Outcasts loaded a buncha heavy weaponry onto a monorail.

[round sinew]

Yes.

[sick lantern]

I think maybe they do have these resources available but the situations we see in game aren’t conducive to their usage

[round sinew]

Why are all these gangs who have like no ability to live without being parasites on the settlements capable of this, but the JTF and SHD are totally unable to do anything but run a couple villages and keep a couple Blackhawks flying?

[round sinew]

Taking the airport or the foundry was an 8-man job?

[sick lantern]

uhhh

[round sinew]

Basically an infantry squad. Very specialized, but still only an infantry squad.

[sick lantern]

maybe the JTF/CM in DC are just too incompetent to even put together one vehicle crew, I’d believe it

[round sinew]

But they have multiple helicopters.

So I know they have mechanics and a motor pool able to keep them running.

But not a single functioning humvee? Not even a civilian car? No armored vics?

[sick lantern]

vehicle- driver, gunner, commander and infrastructure
chopper- pilot and infrastructure ¯_(ツ)_/¯

idk

[round sinew]

The Blackhawks JTF flies needs like a 4-man crew

plus the ground team

Plus resources to keep them running.

[sick lantern]

maybe that’s why Kenly is only open sometimes, Torres is the only guy they have and he has to prep to do all the work

[round sinew]

And we know they have multiple, because at least one crashes in the game.

You're telling me a fireteam of SHD agents can't get a Humvee up and running and use it to get around?

[sick lantern]

they don’t wanna skip leg day

[round sinew]

There isn't enough talent between the entire JTF and SHD to get a single Ford Focus going?

[sick lantern]

would that surprise you?

[round sinew]

I'd believe it if everyone was as smart as Manny.

[ashen jungle]

I like to imagine they'd only ever get a Pinto going instead.

[round sinew]

8 SHD agents can destroy a foundry but can't rub enough brain cells together to get an F-150 to go.

Maybe Heartland will have vehicles.

That would be nice.

A girl at the White House can literally 3D print you any gun you want, but nobody can put a car together.

[sick lantern]

3D printers are cool they should return for Div 3

[round sinew]

You have access to literal nanobots, but a Subaru Outback is too much work.

[ashen jungle]

i guess the reasoning is that all the roads are blocked up anyway.

[round sinew]

Then weld a fucking snowplow onto the nearest tank

[sick lantern]

perhaps (crafting exclusive?) guns with the proper 3D printed polymer aesthetic

[round sinew]

Some idiots at the settlements can put together wind and solar power and hydroponic agriculture, but a single Chevy Suburban is too difficult?

[sick lantern]

fuel availability and road congestion are probably why they haven’t

[round sinew]

Oooo don't even get me started on fuel accessibility

They can fly that fucking helicopter everywhere they want

And there isn't enough gas in all of DC to start a fucking car?

[sick lantern]

evidently the choppers need it more

[round sinew]

I guess it's been like 8 months, so most gas in the cars has gone bad by then.

But they have a steady supply of aircraft fuel

I can't whip up a diesel truck or make something run on kerosene?

We can make engines run on fucking rubbing alcohol, and nobody in DC is Macgyvering up a car?

They have working cars in the Walking Dead, but nobody in the Division universe knows what wheeled vehicles are anymore.

[late void]

true sons have not just railway artillery, Morozova keeps calling airstrikes, so they must have some kind of fighter jet fleet somewhere

[sleek plover]

Damn I hate True Sons

[gaunt ice]

he ripped the rebel leader's head with bare hands,i think he was really gonna do that

[woven basalt]

@sick lantern btw, one thing you missed in that div lore convo on the other server was the dude said that elite squad recon'd it, and the other series..... my jaw dropped.

and im saying that as someone whos still playing TCES (just unlocked agent kelso)

(going for keener now)

what did he call us?

[gaunt ice]

its actually just artillery from the train

[floral gull]

I keep mistaking Jason Bourne as a Tom Clancy creation

[woven basalt]

same genre of techno thriller, so it's cool.

[round sinew]

Elite Squad
Canon
Yeah ok

[woven basalt]

yeah, i couldnt believe it.

literally every boss death is retcon'd.

they just got "knocked out", sent to prison, bingo bango, recruited by the good guys for some reason.

nothing scream "non canon" more than elite squad, dont think even the devs think its canon.

[mint citrus]

Ongo bongo bongo I don't want to leave the congo

[gaunt ice]

Joe Ferro survived being barbecued?

[gaunt ice]

bold to assume the devs even play it

[woven basalt]

"-even after years of being lock away for the horrors he and his Cleaners had inflicted upon the city of New York."

let me find bliss.

oh bliss is imprisoned and then gets a presidential pardon, basically the same thing

man, ferro's age, height, and weight still say 0.

guess they werent kidding about no more updates, even to fix an error in the last one.

[gaunt ice]

presidental pardon?did the US just turn into the next Reich?Nazi America?

[woven basalt]

waitaminute? which president? oh wait, of course, ellis would be retconned as alive and (probably himself given a presidental pardon???)

[round sinew]

Wow, it's almost like Elite Squad is a cheap mobile game the devs were probably forced to make and has 0 bearing on anything anywhere.

Good job on whoever just deleted that ad.

[sick lantern]

ad?

[cold bramble]

ad?

[sick lantern]

oh presumably you mean a self promotion ad and not someone shilling for elite squad

[late void]

it was one of those CSGO knife scam posts, appeared in every channel then got nuked a few seconds later

[sick lantern]

ic

[gaunt ice]

up

[sick lantern]

Who am I? ||the NSA||

[gaunt ice]

surprised pikachu face

[tepid ibex]

Hell yeah, I just hope all of the factions have game-accurate outfits/uniforms. Don't want them to have a different look for the sake of a movie.

[sick lantern]

I won’t be disappointed if the Cleaners have aspects from concept art/trailers but other than that yea, the faction designs are pretty perfect

like if the LMB have a generic military green/ entirely black and grey colour scheme it’ll suck

@kind hare are you still taking questions for the interview? is it still happening?

[woven basalt]

what interview?

did you watch pt 1 of the hearts on fire vid?

[sick lantern]

i did and i shall watch part 2 later

[sick lantern]

watching it now

east 20th and 3rd street, I think I mightve been there in survival

next time I boot up Div 1 maybe I’ll go there ¯_(ツ)_/¯

in another world, if Ubisoft were good devs then they would update Div 1 to tie in with HoF but that’s just wishful thinking

[sick lantern]

part three came out 👀

Johanna is a badass but damn are these agents incompetent or what

[mint citrus]

At least it's lore-accurate?

Not every agent is/was the player character, and they can screw up

How incompetent do you mean, though?

[sick lantern]

Johanna is able to take down two Division agents

on separate occasions

granted she herself was approached but rejected by the SHD but she never had the training

she also nearly blew up the Hudson Refugee Camp before the second wave was even activated and destroyed a potential alliance between the LMB and Cleaners so she is pretty competent

I think she has a backstory explanation for being a badass but either I can’t remember it or NGN didn’t mention it

[round sinew]

Another ad?

Ach. So immediate.

[sick lantern]

damn cus it was a nitro link I thought it was just a rickroll but nope go ahead and post it in every channel

[round sinew]

Don't trust that link, Kirby.

[gaunt ice]

dont trust any link

[stoic vessel]

This ^

[west dock]

Keener is delta crashing my game

[floral gull]

Can she solo Keener like we did

[woven basalt]

oh damn, youre talking about the sackoff heartonfire agent, took me a while since the above was also about keener.

tag kirby, he should know.

[sick lantern]

maybe she could tbh, like I said she kills one or two other first wave agents

[stoic vessel]

@gaunt ice less vulgarity please

[woven basalt]

uh, ngl, that last line was uncomfortable to read.

[gaunt ice]

yeah that was part of a copypasta,sorry for the vulgar language

[round sinew]

Damn, I missed a copypasta

[sleek plover]

damn i hate lmb

[tacit plank]

Found a heartland gameplay video van I share it on here ?

Seems good for a alpha state GG Ubisoft

[ashen jungle]

This is the official Div2 Discord.
If you're asking if you are allowed to share leaked gameplay footage on here, I think you know the answer.

[tacit plank]

XD that's why I asked here in this room but yeah I know can't but It looks good for a alpha I would play it as much I play div2

[tiny wraith]

i played it

[fast kettle]

Aye, Ubisoft ain’t doing shit.

Red storm better

Fuck Ubisoft

Also yes decent game currently

Needs some finishing but

Good overall

[winged sleet]

I was just looking at the TDI "Kard' Custom pistol, more accurately it's flavour text which happens to be tagged 'John Dimitri Kozak'
Now unless I'm mistaken that guys a ghost

[near ibex]

I now

Just noticed

[woven basalt]

i wonder if its an easter egg like faye lau's splinter cell goggles

[gaunt ice]

that's one for the list of division/ghost recon crossover shenanigan theories

[winged sleet]

The biggest issue I'm seeing is the timelines for Ghost recon and division don't match up in the slightest

[gaunt ice]

can you go through that 1 more time?

[winged sleet]

Well division 2 is set in 2019 roughly isn't it

And since the outbreak the US formed the JTF which would theoretically include Delta company (I would also assume some may defect not unlike how SHD agents did as well as maybe some ghosts were activated as SHD agents as well perhaps?)

Now operation Kingslayer was also set in 2019 when Nomad and his team went to take down El Sueno with the CIA.

Now since the JTF formed in the winter after black Friday then it could line up (it's a damn stretch mind) but the bit that doesn't fit and breaks it is Operation Greenstone on Auroa when Nomad, again is sent (BY the CIA intelligence) to assess Auroa which is another thing all together

But how does that work out? Since the CIA and Delta company would more than likely be dissolved into the JTF to curb the aftermath of the outbreak

[sick lantern]

nope

[winged sleet]

When is it set then

[sick lantern]

2029/2030

[winged sleet]

Which is it then

Right okay so three years before operation Kingslayer

How likely is it that SHD and JTF would have everything squared away in time to begin launching GST operations overseas like nothing happened?

Has to be then doesn't it

[cold bramble]

The Mars mission exhibit in the Space Administration HQ suggests that the date got retconned to sometime after 2018, as a successful manned mission to Mars that landed that year is referred to in the past tense https://www.reddit.com/r/thedivision/comments/b301vi/in_the_world_of_the_division_we_sent_a_successful/

My hot take is that there is a John Dimitri Kozak in the Division universe, but he obviously isn't the one in the GR:Future Soldier continuity, since GRFS!Kozak would be all of 17 years old in 2015

[sick lantern]

dude what if

they bring back the Patriots from R6Patriots as a foil to be BT

that would be cool I think

[woven basalt]

i think the date is purposely obscured, like how the timestamps in the opening footage of div1 is hidden.

the fact that theres wildly diverging ideas of the timeframe supports that more than any individual theory.

it makes me think its designed that way to resonate with people no matter when they play but.... mmorpgs usually have such a short shelf life.

[sick lantern]

wait so

If Dragov killed the warden and gave Barrett the keys

then how did Barrett get a barge to reach Midtown from Rikers

[round sinew]

There are probably boats already on Riker's.

[woven basalt]

its even possible that parnell took two boats there, and left one on his exit.

[gaunt ice]

question:was security so thin they just look at probably 2-3 ships full of convicts as they escape

[woven basalt]

probably raided the weapons store at the prison before they left

[sick lantern]

before it got retconned Larae seduced the warden so he probably lightened the security, plus the prison was probably understaffed as the virus spread and anyone inside was probably too dead to care about the escape

[gaunt ice]

how about the jtf in the city?could've set an ambush or call air support to nuke the ships,hell,even get the lmb to help since at that point they were still working with the jtf

[floral gull]

I got a question regarding the very first tutorial area after you create your character from Division 2. Where are you exactly, and who were invading with boats at the dock?

[ashen jungle]

There's no definitive word on where exactly you were, but can be implied that it was New-England somewhere with the fishing motif.
as for who was invading, have you finished Div2's campaign yet?
we do see that Agent from the start again, but it's a spoiler if you haven't finished the campaign yet.

[floral gull]

And have we ever heard from the other agent in that scene ever again when you left for DC

Campaign finished, so who are the invaders and who is the agent

[ashen jungle]

Black Tusk, we see her again at the Pentagon mission respectively

you can tell by the Hovercrafts that they use.

[floral gull]

Ok so she successfully defended that settlement even without skills working

[ashen jungle]

Or she bailed from it and left the rest to die, it's been a while so I can't recall if she mentions it.

[floral gull]

I’ll wait until someone is awake for more info

[ashen jungle]

It was designed to be vague, since it's entirely possible to skip the scene.
it's really not as big a deal as you probably think it is.

the Div franchise really likes "soft canon", like what happened to our Div1 Agent.

[floral gull]

It always bothered me so I just want some closure from the very beginning segment. Others might not care but it always nagged on me for some reason. Every other story thread or plot hole I’m fine with except for this one

[ashen jungle]

No, no, I get it. I actually asked this question myself a long time ago, which is how I'm able to answer it.

You just kinda got to get used to not knowing some things, or certain plot-contradictions making the timeline confusing.

my god, WONY has that bad.

[woven basalt]

yeah, rhode island or connecticut are the only places that look like the map in that settlement

though not perfect, it says "bay area" and shows a beach.

coming from hawaii, its weird to see such a ragged coastline.

[floral gull]

Why were black tusk invading that area

[woven basalt]

that might be something answered in the upcoming new content.

not really sure we know the full extent of the sokolov's plans.

[ashen jungle]

At that point, Sokolov also likely didn't actually exist, since she was kinda ret-conned in later.
unless that Comm lied.

[woven basalt]

except that theyve seemingly pushed into france.

[wary flame]

Hi

[spare arrow]

Hi!

[woven basalt]

howdy and howzit

[sick lantern]

u wot

[spare arrow]

Oui

[sick lantern]

Bardon Chaffeur

[sick lantern]

BTSU? nah, Unité spéciale de défense noire

[mint citrus]

Can the Chameleon prototype also be called a Franken-gun?

[ashen jungle]

If we're getting technical, it's really just a Kriss Vector with a giant magazine strapped on and a CoD skin painted over it.

I guess they felt like there was too many Exo' SMGs at that point.

[sick lantern]

according to IMFDB it’s all just Vector parts

and a thicker magazine well

[ashen jungle]

Yeah was going by the Spreadsheet calling it a "Kriss Vector", because I don't know what that is but it sounds about right.

[sick lantern]

Kriss is the company, Vector is the gun

[ashen jungle]

So it's theoretically possible to one day have a Disney Vector?

[sleek plover]

French enemy factions

chargers stab you with baguettes

[woven basalt]

the map of europe in div2.

[gaunt ice]

it totally possible

[sick lantern]

Commytiny that’s a new one

[blissful mason]

where can i get a vector at a lower level??

[sick lantern]

#new-player-questions

[sick lantern]

oh for fuck’s sake

check notification in favourite channel
it’s another bot scam
😔

[cold bramble]

Probably Maryland; It's over a thousand miles from New England to DC.
Maryland, however, would be close enough to reach ISACs reduced energy emergency message.

[sleek plover]

Division

in detroit

[tiny wraith]

heartland more like colorado

if you follow the amber sky story line

in breakpoint to r6 to heartland

kind of reversed had wild lands added division 1 missions then added r6 missions ending at the beginning of breakpoint

and just to have fun they added sam fisher

[cold bramble]

On this day 145 years ago Wild Bill Hickok was shot to death in a poker game so don't forget to equip your Aces&Eights and pop some heads to celebrate him and the legacy of the "dead man's hand"

[lost salmon]

Is heart land is going to free to play game?

[ashen jungle]

Heartland has been confirmed a while back to be a f2p pvp survival thingy.

also has a PvE mode tho.

[viral shell]

I wonder how they plan to monetise it?

[ashen jungle]

Well it's f2p, so there's a few very common ways that they'll probably go for.
but this is more of a lore chat than anything.

[tiny wraith]

@lost salmon yes

[gaunt ice]

just pls no division br,that's the last thing we need

[ashen jungle]

Survival was already kinda that, so Heartland would be on brand with an Ariana Grande tie-in.

[gaunt ice]

i mean,survival was one thing

clothes,meds,objectives and shit?hell yeah

just battling it out in a small circle?meh

[ashen jungle]

just add in building and parachutes and we're halfway there.

it being set outside of a major city too is a sign for me that it's gonna be heavy into simple maps.

[gaunt ice]

but one thing for sure that nothing can beat the og snow atmosphere

oops a typo there

[ashen jungle]

yeah there's a reason it's called "Heartland", it's set in a place like Far Cry 5, from what I can tell.
but we don't talk about leaks here so I'll shut up now.

[round sinew]

Jessie, what the fuck are you talking about?

[tiny wraith]

morning rivens ill be quiet too

wildlands and breakpoint had sam fisher in it

[woven basalt]

the only parts of what you said that dont fall under NDA is "heartland" and "f2p". even this far after the incident, they've literally given us zero info.

[woven basalt]

finally someone gets the "heartland" part of it, i keep hearing some weird theories on the setting, even after the banner with the rural setting was released.

[sick lantern]

I haven't

[gaunt ice]

so uhh our buddy here @tiny wraith claims to have played the Heartlands beta

and holy shit what the fuck happened to the lore?

[sick lantern]

I'm very interested but also NDA?

[gaunt ice]

which is why i kinda doubt it

[woven basalt]

its weird that he'd come here to say hes breaking NDA.

[tiny wraith]

ive learned to talk around the box not whats in the box

[gaunt ice]

but ill be the Devil's Advocate here and say that maybe he's talking straight facts and ubisoft can't do shit because it'd confirm the leaks

[tiny wraith]

welcome to outside the box

[woven basalt]

so youre saying you didnt bother to even read it.

[gaunt ice]

like,if i talk about heartland spoilers,the worst they can do is ban me from the beta because silencing me would be confirming the news

[tiny wraith]

i deal with 3 nda every day

[sick lantern]

well the only thing that's been said on this server is that he has played the test which I doubt the NDA covers, from here on out is mod territory is it not

[woven basalt]

it actually does.

[tiny wraith]

correct

i can tell you i playec it

[woven basalt]

thats actually under the NDA too

[gaunt ice]

it kinda happens to Apple as well,everytime someone leaked the new phone designs they cant sue the leaker because they need to provide evidence that jsut kinda blows the surprise

[tiny wraith]

no its what i played in the game

i cant talk about

[woven basalt]

dude, then you didnt read it.

[gaunt ice]

tbf 95% of us never really read the massive end-user agreement shit

i genuinely believe that if one day a company just slips "your soul will be ours" into the contract people would still fall for it

[woven basalt]

end-user agreements are apparently getting pretty bad, though.... tl:dr, though thats probably the point, they want to bury the bad stuff in a wall of text

[lost salmon]

Noice

[round sinew]

I, uh, thought we all got the reference.

It's not even a reference.

It's like being titled Tom Clancy's The Division: New England

"I wonder where it's gonna take place."

[woven basalt]

even to a lot of americans, the term doesnt mean anything. "heartland, USA" is a little known retro term for a vaguely outlined region.

so when people talked about the east coast again... sigh.

[desert bay]

Just realized that the burning wreck on top of the Summit is a satellite that fell from orbit, and is possibly the reason for us being there? I can't seem to find any more details on it but thought it was a really cool detail
https://i.imgur.com/y6ACkhL.png

[desert bay]

Not about lore, but I have reason to believe the Chameleon and the Scorpio share a base model with different mods, as sometimes the game glitches and my Scorpio gains Chameleon parts such as the suppressor and sights. Looks sick and I wish I had a screenshot, but it's all aesthetic and it remains functionally the same.

[round sinew]

I never said Americans were smart or well-read as a general rule.

[sick lantern]

it would be so easy to say “retrieve this downed satellite module from this tower, but be careful, the crash attracted a lot of attention” but nope

[woven basalt]

not what im saying... at all. we're talking about a term that only americans use. youre fighting uphill if youre gonna assert that its a term used by other people.

it means something different to other countries.

[round sinew]

I think we're talking past each other.

Reassert your claim.

[woven basalt]

its about your claim "we all got the reference"

the cross-section of people who use it that way is so tiny, that its kinda crazy to think people didnt have to look it up.

especially after politics stole the term to mean red states.

[round sinew]

To be fair, most red states are in the Heartland or the South.

Except... Alaska and some of those New England states that have a different definition of red.

[woven basalt]

interesting, those are my blind spots, never been to the east coast, and... alaska is so cold, it'd kill me.

[tiny wraith]

Ubisoft is trying to tie all there games together

[woven basalt]

maybe.

i know they love their crossover events

[tiny wraith]

Wildlands,div1,Sam fisher,r6

[woven basalt]

the siege/extraction crossover event looks neat

[woven basalt]

is sam and div via far cry?

[tiny wraith]

No direct tie in

[woven basalt]

do you mean faye lau's splinter cell goggles?

[tiny wraith]

Heheheheje

Ok here goes

Ready

Wildlands came out soon after division 1 crates were found in bolivia with full missions

Sam fisher arrived trying to find info on a new gas

R6 comes down to rescue there agents taken

Witch ended up beginning the story line of Breakpoint

Follow so far

Ok stage 2.

Breakpoint happens

Along the way sam fisher returns looking for chemist working on a new gas,which you capture and hand off.

[near ibex]

wait doesnt he look for a drone controller prototype?

and has to get rid of it?

[tiny wraith]

Yes in wild lands

And then also in breakpoint but

If you read the intell they tell you it's for a new gas weapon

[near ibex]

on wildlands

??

[tiny wraith]

Yes

[near ibex]

ill have to look again if i ever play it

[tiny wraith]

Now break point sends the gas back to the USA where r6 is waiting to get it

And the bad guys who want to TEST it in the usa

[near ibex]

im super confused now because didnt raven rock originally transport the gas?

[tiny wraith]

No they let the shipment go so they could track it to all the bad guys

That's what all the gps trackers were for

[near ibex]

oh that makes sense

i shouldve clarified my question that ravens rock brought the gas to the island first

[tiny wraith]

And R6 was to follow and terminate with extreme prejudice

Yes and no they brought in base components but didn't know how to make it work

[woven basalt]

get to the implication with the chemical when its in the usa.

[tiny wraith]

The wolves mad scientist figured it out

[woven basalt]

the chain got broken

whats the next link.

[tiny wraith]

Once in the usa

[woven basalt]

or is that "coming soon"

[tiny wraith]

R6 had control of all but 1 devise5

Device

Final mission of R6 had 2 endings

1. The bad guys dead and you get the chemicals

[woven basalt]

you should create a simple text doc so you can copypaste and work on it.

[tiny wraith]

I know

2nd ending .....

You hear radio transmission bomb detonation all happens in the middle of the usa

I gave you the short version

Which sets up next stage

[woven basalt]

i like that you deep dove into the franchises, but you should really get it into a doc.

[tiny wraith]

This gonna sound silly ,but I don't know how. roflol

[woven basalt]

it'll save you time if you ever want to present the info again, all you'd have to do is copy and paste the parts you want.

[tiny wraith]

Ok kool

Oh and yes I had fun testing it

[sick lantern]

ok so I know the Hunters weren’t in Underground at launch but what if- the Rogue Agent who supplied the Rikers with the bomb is associated with the Hunters somehow, and used the bombing to lure the SHD into beginning operations in the underground where they were more vulnerable to Hunters

I’m gonna go relisten to the phones

[gaunt ice]

hunters kill rogues too,why would the rogues help them?

[winged sleet]

Isn't ISAC linked to the satellite network now?

[near kettle]

I guess it is

we do something satellite-related in a mission if im not misremembering

[ashen jungle]

That would be getting ISAC back online, cause BT knocked them out.

that's when the Agents (and Lau actually) get their SHD tech back working.

[near kettle]

yeah, that's what I thought, it's not impossible to just, produce and copy it yourself

[winged sleet]

But it is relinked to the satellite network and could piggyback off of other networks as well

[near kettle]

if you have the abilities and components

and even sell it abroad

[ashen jungle]

ISAC is not just an Alexa, to be fair, he seems to have some kinda learning thing going on.
He's pretty well protected, the most you can do is "fool" his facial recognition and even that was plugged real fast.

[winged sleet]

Like an off brand JARVIS

[ashen jungle]

kinda!

[near kettle]

ISAC seems really smart, I mean, he learns about the gadgets we got from the Traitors doesn't he?

he just wasn't programed to be something like Bagley from Watch Dogs, that talks with us and etc

[ashen jungle]

I actually don't remember Bagley, might have to replay that at some point.
but yeah, it's my bet that he's got some kinda machine-learning thing going on.

[near kettle]

Bagley has a personality and talks with you and etc

[woven basalt]

i think thats recognition software more than real singularity type AI

[near kettle]

he's from WD Legion

[woven basalt]

bagley is more like the classic singularity smart AI

[near kettle]

yeah, thats what i was thinking about

[woven basalt]

though ISAC was never meant to be "human"

[near kettle]

yeah, yeah, he just helps you

[woven basalt]

damn, now im remembering those horrible mind uploads from that one legion mission

[ashen jungle]

ooh yeah haven't touched Legion yet, waiting on a heavy sale.
but yeah, ISAC is 100% robot and not meant to be a stand-in human. At the most he's accidentally sarcastic.

[near kettle]

i mean, perhaps he learned how to be sarcastic lol

[ashen jungle]

If he spent any time with Kelso, I absolutely believe that lol

[near kettle]

oh gosh I love Kelso, she's such a good character

[gaunt ice]

remember that one time in the bank hq?

"searching for "way out of the vault".zero matches."

[near kettle]

maybe the ISAC persona changes for each agent

[ashen jungle]

I don't think so, you hear him sometimes in recordings and it's the same kinda thing.

[near kettle]

well damn

would be nice tho

like Destiny's Ghosts

[ashen jungle]

they way I look at it, we don't get our own ISAC's, so much as we access a small version of him that gets sent to our Watch via the satellites.

[near kettle]

yeah, hes like a database

[ashen jungle]

hah, ISAC as a Ghost would be amazing. he'd probably turn out like that one who constantly revives the guardian who's trapped in the wall.

[gaunt ice]

in case when all satellites fall,ISAC still have 3 servers in the US right?

[near kettle]

lmao true

[ashen jungle]

Well we saw what happened at the start of div2 when they were taken down, so it's at the most just active in DC.

[gaunt ice]

i thought it was just the servers that got shut down?

[ashen jungle]

satellites were offline, hence us having to get them back up in the NASA-rip off place.

[near kettle]

ISAC was down for everyone wasn't it?

[ashen jungle]

Correct, even us, that's why the Alert was sent out and we made the trip to DC.

[near kettle]

the character from Div2 isn't same as Div1, right?

[ashen jungle]

Well the canon is somewhat "soft", so if you choose to believe it is, then it might be!

(originally though, no, because the hairstyles weren't all there from div1 at div2's launch)

[near kettle]

I see

nice

[ashen jungle]

they added in the hairstyles though, so now it can be!

[woven basalt]

lol, now i want a ISAC or bagley voice option for alexa/siri

[near kettle]

lol, sarcastic ISAC

[ashen jungle]

I wouldn't mind just ISAC, but with the Garrus Vakarian lines.

[near kettle]

lol, ISAC invades a building and starts to play terror sounds and mess with the enemies inside

[winged sleet]

Plug ISAC in to a buildings PA and all you hear for the time you're on mission is the only thing they fear is you

[near kettle]

lol ISAC is a DOOM fan

go in full Shotgun build with kill armor regen blasting DOOM OST through the building

[ashen jungle]

make sure you wears the Claws Out!

(literally has "Rip and tear!" as flavourtext)

[cold bramble]

ISAC = VEGA?

[near kettle]

yes, indeed canon

[sleek plover]

Does anyone know who is krazynski in the text for "Burn Out" Famas?

[ashen jungle]

I have to imagine he's a Cleaner.

[sick lantern]

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NoodleIncident

amazing writing in that flavour text, as usual

[ashen jungle]

For anyone curious:
You want me to pick up another f*****g shift? Well guess what? F**k this shift. I'm out. - Krazinski, before "The Incident"

[sleek plover]

I thought he is more of a outcast, considering "The Incident" is all caps as if it is a name or something.

[ashen jungle]

I've heard that term used for Black Friday infection too, so idk maybe.
but the name and everything does sound kinda like a Cleaner more.

[sick lantern]

His name sounds like a Cleaner’s name, his talking about working a job which is the Cleaner’s whole view, and it’s called the “Burn Out”
wonder who he could be

[sleek plover]

I hope he isnt, that means i have to dismantle a good famas

[ashen jungle]

both Outcasts and Cleaners are both equally bad, so if you're gonna dismantle it for one then gotta do it for the other.

[winged sleet]

Well you liberated the FAMAS from the bad guys so it's a symbol of triumph @sleek plover

[sick lantern]

I’d say equally bad is a bit of a stretch

[winged sleet]

Both are equally good target practice

And the explosions ... Boom

[ashen jungle]

hard disagree there, Kirby. But we've done this dance enough.

[sick lantern]

the Cleaners are the only faction who can say that at the end of the day they’re actually trying to help someone other than themselves

(only enemy faction)

[winged sleet]

Hmmm debateable

They'll burn anything or anyone on a whim and blame 'possible contamination'

[sick lantern]

considering they’re stuck in a quarantine zone in the midst of a world-threateningly infections viral outbreak, it’s a justified concern
and again, you kinda missed the point, the motive behind their actions is considerably more noble than any other faction’s

[ashen jungle]

the Cleaners started out like that, yes. But like every "good" intentions of a faction, it got twisted over time.

Outcasts started out as just being peeved that they were trapped, now they want to kill everyone.
etc.

[sick lantern]

their motivations never changed, they just think it justifies highly drastic measures

[ashen jungle]

thats what i, ya know what, nvm.

[winged sleet]

End of the day, we go full judge on their ass. If only we had a gun we could tell to shoot explosive rounds

[sick lantern]

Historian?

[warped iris]

yeah Cleaners at first basically stepped in and took drastic measures they think were justified

in the end they do want to eradicate the virus, and there's nothing in game that suggests they are after territory or power

[winged sleet]

For now, how long until they become bandits? Bandits with fire

[warped iris]

yeah if the leadership falls who knows

granted, they went through 3 of em already

and they still held together

NY twice then DC

[sick lantern]

I doubt they’d exist as a faction without that objective holding them together

[warped iris]

they seem the most likely to just disband for good after it is over

unlike say Hyenas who claim they want to own the US

or True Sons of course

they do not even have a healer archetype ingame

it's not even in their ideology to call it that

[winged sleet]

Oh....

I really don't like how that game looks

[warped iris]

if anything Hyenas would be healers, with all their drugs

and in terms of gameplay their HP overbuff

just seems like a cashgrab anyway, another arena shooter, such ingenuity

[sick lantern]

hey if it’s better than CoD is nowadays it’ll be welcome in my opinion

[warped iris]

I doubt it

[round sinew]

COD?

I just want Infinite Warfare 2

[woven basalt]

so apparently x-def's setting is a farther future than the div games, but cleaners and outcasts are around, so..... is x-def the "bad ending" universe?

[sick lantern]

It’s not clear yet (and I doubt it’ll be canon to any of its constituent franchises anyway)

[winged sleet]

I doubt itll be linked to any universe
Just throw all the Ubi characters and factions in as playables

[woven basalt]

at least they arent going the LOST purgatory route

since all the factions are "unlawful"

[winged sleet]

On a different note, and let me just say I'm 100% biased here

The strongholds and manhunts? They would be regular everyday missions for a team of ghosts

[round sinew]

Shocker

[sick lantern]

ghosts who have probably died of green poison

[round sinew]

Army Rangers and random sleeper agent have different levels of ability?

The Ghosts have an advantage in that they can drive a car.

[winged sleet]

Not to forget their skills in tracking, stealth, specialist tactics and that squads are generally inserted into hostile environments and need to make it work

Ghosts would make short work out of the factions with their skillset. Not to mention for the most part the factions are comprised of poorly trained combatants

[round sinew]

Mitchell still lost half a squad in Afghanistan.

[gaunt ice]

i feel like agents are more specialised in close-mid range combats than ghosts,especially if you consider the fact that most missions take place in small and tight areas,and the odds that agents often go against is pretty impressive

[gaunt ice]

cod ghost would rip that shit in half lol,and its the 2nd worst cod ever

[sleek plover]

IMo cleaners are just plain self righteous and evil. at least outcasts wants revenge

[gaunt ice]

cleaners have a good motive that got deformed by insane acts

while outcast are just selfish cunts

yeah you got quarantined and abandoned ok,how are we,the regular citizens,responsible for that?

they're just flat out insane,killing people for their own gains

while the cleaner's actions might be inhumane,they have the right idea and motive of destroying the virus

burning dead corpses that can risk infections?that's a real world thing

burning living people?nope.but in their eyes,its for the greater good

[floral gull]

What’s the flavor text for Pyromaniac

[ashen jungle]

"Sometimes the world doesn't burn fast enough."

[floral gull]

Prob a Cleaner

[ashen jungle]

Possibly a quote from something else, as Named Items often have.
e.g. Claws Out has a DOOM comic quote.

[floral gull]

Damn was hoping it was Wolverine

[ashen jungle]

Oh you've never read it then.
"Rip and tear!" is the quote, it's from the ~3 page doom comic that came out in the 90s.

its a masterpiece of simplistic writing.

[floral gull]

I was mostly a x-men and Spawn kiddie back then

[ashen jungle]

this was a single issue thing, im honestly not surprised you haven't read it.
but do it, it's....okay it's actually at least partially canon now, but we're getting off-topic. Named Items seem to like taking quotes from outside of div2, yeah that.

[floral gull]

Only reference I even remember from a named item was the Thompson’s Al Capone quote

For some reason, but that’s the extend of my remembrance

Oh those normal weapons still have quotes it’s not even named

[ashen jungle]

some of them do yeah.

its honestly been a while since ive read most of them.

[floral gull]

That gun and Forge stood out the most for me

[ashen jungle]

i still love the snitch cards text.
the text is just so judgy, for a good reason.

[gaunt ice]

literally burns people alive:meh
kills some dogs:YOU'VE CROSSED THE LINE YOU MONSTER

[ashen jungle]

seems fair to me.

[gaunt ice]

like,a running dog blocked my max charge Nemesis shot on the chunga,and i died

so in a way,the dog proxy killed me or the chunga was just having a really good day

[sick lantern]

killing dogs is worse than killing people?

[near kettle]

i didn't know that, my game is in Portuguese so I don't get the references

[near kettle]

i accidentally killed a dog once

i killed a monkey once too, but it was for science-only purpose

[ashen jungle]

I've kicked every person that's ever intentionally shot a dog in my group.
thats all ill say.

[winged sleet]

I actively avoid shooting the fauna

But there was this deer once that ran into a quarantine zone which I shot, can't have it being a biohazard now could I?

[near kettle]

fair enough

[near kettle]

it really depends

[winged sleet]

If the dog is actively trying to kill you then yknow it is what it is

If you shoot the dog because .... Then that's out of order

[near kettle]

in Div2 dogs are always running from you and people are actively trying to murder you

so, you don't have any reason to shoot dogs, but you have to shoot people

[near kettle]

except for the dog in Haven which you can pet

[warped iris]

They were lied to by Emeline quite a lot

[gaunt ice]

tbf Emeline was mad about her daughter's loss

but that doesn't justify burning people alive or weaponize green poison

[warped iris]

of course not but many were knowingly deceived and worked up into a frenzy by her

[cold bramble]

She did primarily recruit other grief stricken people, so not sure if you can apply external rationale in terms of "justifying". To the people that lost everything due to neglect and authoritarianism/over reach, while everyone else sat back and did not nothing, it's more than justified to make the responsible people pay. And since you don't know who is really responsible for it, by extension you also don't know who is innocent so better safe than sorry.

("Safe" in this case meaning "avenge your child")

[warped iris]

she was well aware the JTF tried to arrest Antwon Ridgeway and denounced his action

yet she still painted the JTF as evil

[cold bramble]

Because they were guilty too, since they carried it out, if there was no JTF she would not have been separated from her daughter. So by the time that report came to light she had already gone down the rabbit hole of hatred/blame. And by extension the civilians that stood around and let it happen are guilty too.

It's not meant/doesn't need to be rational from an outsider perspective, grief/pain induced vengeance quests rarely are. And she definitely descended into madness the longer it went/the larger they became as a group.

[warped iris]

oh I do not deny that, I fully understand that part of her story

I just mean to say that I assume a number of Outcasts might not have gone so far, irrevesibly so at this point I'd say, were they not lied to

I doubt some of the Outcasts wouldn't have reconsidered their actions were they not so heavily riled up against everyone

while some I bet just looked to vent their anger on whoever

[cold bramble]

Yeah, I think there is truth in that. She's bound to have radicalised at least a couple that would otherwise have just been in mourning and then moved on/stayed catatonic but not become violent. It's hard to get a sense of how many they've managed to convert (all factions, not just Outcasts) since we relive them on an eternal loop/infinite spawn.

[near kettle]

guys, who really are the hunters? i never grasped who they are

in my mind they are just rogue agents but buffed af

[warped iris]

one of em is associated with Black Tusk

not sure if the rest are or not

[near kettle]

i dont see where they diverge from the rogue agents except for being stronger

[warped iris]

seem they are better equipped and trained to deal with specific high value targets

while an agent is trained to deal with mostly everything but I reckon more often that not groups of enemies

[round sinew]

Hunters have been narrowed down to a few things:

• Bodark
• Rogue SHD
• Loyal SHD
• OGA

Or, uh, Aliens.

[ashen jungle]

I think we can safely rule out a SHD association, since they like to collect Watches as trophies.
and the whole Edwards thing, yeesh.

no idea what bodark and OGA is, but before Coney Island AP I kinda assumed they were just an assortment of crazy ppl, but I guess they must be something more, although I still don't think they're actually organised.

[winged sleet]

@ashen jungle Bodark are, put simply, the russian counterparts to ghosts

[ashen jungle]

oh, then I hope not. I hate it when Russians are always the villains.
feels kinda cold-war paranoid fantasy, ya know?

[winged sleet]

It's the western cliché though ain't it

[ashen jungle]

It's certainly the military game one.
either that or PMCs. At least they're not just all middle-eastern anymore. Glad that one's over.

[round sinew]

I don't think Loyal SHD is entirely ruled out, yet.

There's potential for a whole conspiracy arc about how SHD HQ sends out Hunters for cover ups or to snuff out regular agents.

[warped iris]

they're the toilet paper to the shit the SHD rogues caused

[round sinew]

OGA is Other Government Agency. Slang for CIA and other secret government spooks.

[sick lantern]

Not explained yet

[round sinew]

Yeah. I think that one is unlikely, but... It's not any more realistic than Bodark

[warped iris]

still I guess the closest we got to is their association with Tusk

or well that specific one

[ashen jungle]

I've only heard the term "the whole alphabet" and i kinda like that one better for it.

[round sinew]

If they turn out to be Black Tusk heavy hitters, I'll be annoyed

[ashen jungle]

that would basically kneecap canon.

[warped iris]

it does feel rather meh yes but I would say it is the closest they were associated with something so far

[round sinew]

Alphabet Soup is analogous, but it refers to do different things, usually.

[ashen jungle]

good thing i didnt say that then lol.

[ashen jungle]

why would BT heavy hitters set up elaborate puzzles around DC and NYC?
god, i hope that's not it.

[round sinew]

Same.

[sick lantern]

are the puzzle hunters even canon? considering they make no fucking sense

[round sinew]

But. This is Division lore we're talking about. I expect to be disappointed.

[warped iris]

that is just gameplay Id say

would fall outside of canon so to speak

[ashen jungle]

Well, the Agent Edwards mission is, and that intro's the hunters, so I'd say "yes".

[warped iris]

the only canonical encounters I'd say are Survival and then Edwards and the Coney mission

[near kettle]

hunters just seem like the natural predators for agents

[warped iris]

well, granted the puzzles are done without any solicitation from someone else while Edwards you is you getting sent to check on someone

[sick lantern]

I’d say the presence of the Hunters in Underground is also canon, fits their MO

[round sinew]

Hunters are plant pod people, yes.

[warped iris]

that could work also

[sick lantern]

so the Hunters, canonically, wait for agents to dick around and make a modern art display and then attack them?

[round sinew]

Yes.

Hunters are actually sigma males.

[ashen jungle]

oh god, please dont.

[near kettle]

i suppose whatever we do to trigger them is just an way to represent an ambush

when our agent gets distracted, they strike

[warped iris]

the puzzles are too gamey imo to be considered story, Edwards works

[ashen jungle]

Hunters were fine until MSV forced them into the story.
why they couldnt just make the Coney Island one a Rogue and be done with it.

[warped iris]

guess for the added excitement at seeing one

[sick lantern]

yea there’s 0 dialogue before the Bardon manhunt mentioning Hunters right?

[round sinew]

Because we needed an enemy that had screaming as their only known character trait

[sick lantern]

if they wanted them to come up in the plot they should’ve made it smoother and not just sudden “Here’s a Hunter! What does it mean? :D we don’t know!”

[near kettle]

aren't they mute? never heard one talk before

[round sinew]

The one working with Bardon makes noise.

[warped iris]

grunts

and moans if you shoot him in the buttocks

[sick lantern]

🤨

[near kettle]

i guess the one i killed really did grunt

[warped iris]

try it

[near kettle]

lmao canon

[round sinew]

His comms with Bardon consist of screaming.

[near kettle]

The Agents Summary on Enemy:
Hunters: they are probably masochists

[round sinew]

Which is likely just scrambled comms

[sick lantern]

I would prefer it if Hunters communicated through smoke signals

[near kettle]

would be sick

[warped iris]

it's Striker Classified mains from Div 1 that were destroyed at seeing Striker in Div 2 and are now just animalistic

[ashen jungle]

The only real link is that one sometimes shows up during a Manhunt lead-up.

[near kettle]

i want to go after hunters now but im bad

[warped iris]

they're not that dangerous

just gotta be careful a bit

[ashen jungle]

You can just set it to normal, the fights themselves aren't that hard on Normal.

[near kettle]

i normally get my ass kicked

[warped iris]

you need to learn to cheese their AI then fren

[near kettle]

isnt there an encounter with 4 hunters?

[warped iris]

ye

[sick lantern]

Bardon says something like “rogue or not you’re going down” so I guess that’s kind of a link to the Hunters’ motive

[warped iris]

gotta take em out one by one and put yourself in a spot that allows you to not get sorrounded

I think the 4 hunter one is around this christmas tree but I forgot

a cafe is close that you can use

[near kettle]

i did only the memorial hunter

you have to salute the flag or whatever

[ashen jungle]

There's multiple actually.

[warped iris]

generally they act like rogue agents really

it's all about positioning I'd say and being able to burst em down

granted with agents you can use skills but yea

[near kettle]

they heal really fast

like Div1 healing if im not wrong

[ashen jungle]

About that lore then.

[warped iris]

I think they have a certain point at which they heal

so if you can get em there and reload, can burst em down

depends on what weapon you also use ofc

[near kettle]

yes, sorry

[round sinew]

Personally, I find Hunters extremely difficult. But I play a skill build meant for soloplay.

[warped iris]

yeah they can hack those

which mostly negates your damage output

[round sinew]

But then again, there was a DC Hunter that spawned 10 feet ahead of me, and we both unloaded our guns into each other until one died. I won that fight with 0 health left lmao.

[warped iris]

I run Ravenous with Momento solo and even a partial stack of that can fuck them up

[sick lantern]

So about that lore then

[warped iris]

well that was the lore we got on em

[round sinew]

Not just negates it, but it turns my overcharged Turret and drone against me, both of which shred.

[warped iris]

going to try to kill one with my Kenly College student build someday

[round sinew]

Keener is likewise a more difficult fight with my main loadout.

[warped iris]

I still think they missed an opportunity with skills

should have made a firefly that hacks enemy robotics

[near kettle]

how much health does a hunter have?

in average

[warped iris]

cannot say the raw number but they can take some damage

[round sinew]

They're just a little more heavily armored and armed than a Rogue, but i think their damage output is significantly more.

[near kettle]

cant regulus deal above 25M with the right build? its quite a possibility

to like, just 1hit the hunter

[ashen jungle]

25million seems like a lot, until you look at certain MMR builds.

[sick lantern]

don’t encourage them

[ashen jungle]

sorry, I'll stop lighting that torch.

[near kettle]

yeah, i have seen people cheese buddy and lucy with regulus

1 shot from 6-7 people and both of them are down

[sick lantern]

so what was up with those crashed drones in Div 1 eh? why were they there

I saw that

[near kettle]

we all did

[ashen jungle]

you saw nothing

[sick lantern]

why’s it called negotiator’s dilemma anyway

[near kettle]

its a set, isnt it?

lemme read it, and i can formulate something

[sick lantern]

yes but why does it have that name

[near kettle]

im searching about it

The negotiator's dilemma describes the choice a negotiator must make between following a competitive strategy or a cooperative strategy when engaging with another party. ... The dilemma arises when you consider that the best option is for both negotiators to cooperate and create value.

google tells me this when you search the name itself

[sick lantern]

If the wiki had a page for it I might be able to figure it out

do the gear sets even have flavour text in 2?

[ashen jungle]

the spreadsheet is useful for that.

[near kettle]

i dont think so

perhaps is the dillema between letting enemies alive for the constant buff or killing them off and getting the killing bonus

idk

[sick lantern]

again

also killing people is the opposite of being a negotiator

is it not

[near kettle]

i mean, its about the dilemma of the negotiator, not being one

you are in the dillema of the cooperating bonus of 3 marked targets, or the bonus of just killing them 1 by 1 and getting the stacks

[ashen jungle]

it's a very specific way of negotiating, I'll give it that.

[near kettle]

letting them live for longer so you can get the bonus or killing them off for the stacks

[sick lantern]

should be called “Hitman’s Dilemma” or something then

very little negotiation going on

[near kettle]

i mean, it's probably cause negotiator dillema is an actual thing

but it would be a good joke

[ashen jungle]

the hitman's bodyguards wife's dilemma.
calling it now, name of the tie-in

[near kettle]

agent 47's dilemma

[sick lantern]

Hitman: Enter a world of assassination’s dilemma

[near kettle]

Hitman 4: The Dilemma

[floral gull]

Finally finished Hearts on Fire while grinding control points

Their use of division 2 music was confusing me so I had to turn off the in game one huhuhuh

[woven basalt]

noice! howd you like it?

[tiny wraith]

It's a pre div1 story

It's pretty good

Had things gone differently the lmb and jtf could have made a real go of it

[sick lantern]

more like LMB and Cleaners

[woven basalt]

oh, so it's when the lmb were still private sec for the good guys. cool.

[sleek plover]

damn i hate lmb

[woven basalt]

i only realized after theyd delivered it, but i think the alt variant of the SHD cap might be LMB theme (it's snow-white)

i.... don't know how i feel about it now. though it is a nice hat.

[sick lantern]

the what

[woven basalt]

the "cap/hat"? it's... you know. a baseball cap.

SHD logo, "division" written in katakana.

[sick lantern]

is that merch or in game or what though

[woven basalt]

been meaning to watch the NGN lore videos, just been bogged down the last couple of weeks. from what you guys have been saying, my interest is peaked again.

[near kettle]

God, audible is so expensive lol

[floral gull]

They nailed the Division world and atmosphere without them showing it. It was pretty much a high quality comm drop that’s over 5 hours.

I didn’t know SHD tech was not standard issue to all agents after they were activated. Was SHD caught off guard, or the tech was just rolled out when the green poison hit?

[round sinew]

Yes.

From my understanding, if you didn't have it on you, you were supposed to go to a designated safe house, drop zone, or cache to retrieve it.

Hence why there's so many of them.

But some early lore insinuates that some agents have all their gear in a closet in their house, so it's probably just on a person-by-person basis where your shit is located.

[floral gull]

There’s also the fact that these newly activated agents didn’t know what they were after being in the field as well, like they have never seen a shd skill device before.

SHD didn’t inform some of them about the tech beforehand

[ashen jungle]

thats a little counter to the ingame comms.
the agents had training before being activated.

[round sinew]

^

[ashen jungle]

Wait, are they changing the canon for convenience again? I was really hoping they'd stop doing that.

[round sinew]

I guess they could have been trained, but not fully informed of their status or something? But that seems like an awful canon detail and doesn't add to rule of Cool at all.

[floral gull]

Hoskins said like, what the hell is that when an agent was using a pulse scanner

[round sinew]

I didn't even really pay attention to Hearts on Fire. Like, at all.

[ashen jungle]

Kinda disappointed in that, ah well.

[round sinew]

Guess I should have.

[floral gull]

Did Wayland write for both Div 1 and 2?

[round sinew]

No idea.

It's not shocking tbh

Division is kind of known for fucky-wucky fluid lore.

[sick lantern]

it’s more like a thick slime

a non newtonian fluid

[round sinew]

Shear thinning or shear thickening?

I say shear thinning, because it turns to goo under any pressure.

New theory: Hoskins isn't a real agent.

[floral gull]

Buhuhuhuh

[dusk dove]

yea thats against the lore QQQ. all division agents are highly trained sleeper agents per Div 1 and 2 lore.

[woven basalt]

the two things that seem certain within their training are basic military training and classroom studies (protocols for establishing government), idk if that classroom work included theoretical study for the SHD tech, afaik that bits whats most fuzzy.

[ashen jungle]

the memories are somewhat faded now, but I do remember this being discussed back in div1+2 in a few comms.

[floral gull]

Maybe NGN would know

[sick lantern]

I don’t see a reason why any active field Division agent would not be equipped with SHD tech

[woven basalt]

i hope the netflix movie has a training montage, lol

[ashen jungle]

I mean, the intro cut-scene for div1 literally has the agents looking at their watch when it goes off in the bar or whatever.

[sick lantern]

get activated, get your hidden gear and jog off to war ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[ashen jungle]

since most of them were in NYC already (or at least close to it) it only makes sense that they'd have the SHD tech laying around somewhere close.

[ashen jungle]

who?

[floral gull]

Hoskins had shd watch but no shd skills to use like the pulse scanner or the drone turret like the other agent

[woven basalt]

the beginning of div1 seems to indicate the watch protocol involves going to a set rendezvous point to be issued orders and gear, though.... all the hierarchy we would've seen gets blown up in that chopper.

[sick lantern]

We still start with the most basic skills and gear though, Hoskins is the most underprepared Division agent for some reason

[woven basalt]

they definitely all have gun/ammo stashes

[sick lantern]

if she even had ISAC functionality then she should’ve known what the pulse is because it’s contained in the brick

then again one of the Division 1 shields showed that some or all agents didn’t know about ISAC but the shields are dubious canon anyway

[near kettle]

maybe its just a skill he never saw before?

like the shock trap, we only found about it after killing the rogue agent i dont remember the name

[ashen jungle]

I legit have no idea who that is Exen', but alright.

[sick lantern]

It’s the pulse. It’s the most basic skill there is

[near kettle]

i mean

sometimes people dont know

it happens you know

[sick lantern]

NGN is a youtuber from New Zealand who mainly makes videos about Division lore

[floral gull]

Agent Melanie Hoskins is the lead female agent voiced by Katee Sackoff

Fyi

[ashen jungle]

im kinda shocked ive never come across them, being rather close geographically.
and rather obsessed with div2 lore.

[woven basalt]

you don't start with any skills, you have to go to the base first.

[round sinew]

Hoskins isn't a real agent

[sick lantern]

nope, at the start of Div 1 you have the pulse, shield and sticky, bomb, and there’s a line from ISAC that shows that you do have them, you just needed to have their usage authorised

[round sinew]

She's like April, stealing SHD shit.

[near kettle]

i would call it based

[woven basalt]

being able to have them is different than having them. you even said they didnt have authorization meaning it's not something they have access to.

plus, are we talking about the tutorial part thats explaining the mechanics for players?

[sick lantern]

No ISAC says “activation completed” it was probably just some kind of calibration process, there’s no reason why we shouldn’t have them outright as they are very small gizmos

in fact the shooting tutorial literally is a calibration process

iirc

[floral gull]

Oh I thought you knew since he posted here today

He does good work on his lore vids

[ashen jungle]

This chat is far less interesting to me since it's been made more general.
but i know that's better overall so I've just faded off here a little.

[sick lantern]

this is still the place for Division lore, Division lore just applies to more things than the games and that’s been recognised

[ashen jungle]

im aware what the channel is for, thanks.

[sick lantern]

how’s it less interesting then?

[woven basalt]

just rewatched it, all that was specifically about the ISAC hud, you have to go to a base terminal to get "directive 51 operational status and equipment" enabled, so couldnt have had access prior.

well, i mean between training and activation.

[sick lantern]

by that logic we shouldn’t be wearing ISAC bricks either cus that’s part of our Directive 51 equipment
ISAC says “Identity confirmed. SHD equipment activated” not “receive your SHD equipment” or something

this is pedantics

[woven basalt]

"enabled" is different than having.

and if they did say "shd equipment activated", its after the part where they get enabled, since i just re-watched the opening parts of the game and its not there.

i think the mistake is you're substituting ISAC with SHD, since those are the systems that get activated prior.

[sick lantern]

why would the JTF randomly have one agent’s SHD tech ready for them?

what kind of cache do we get when activated that contains two guns, ammo, all sorts of armour and an ISAC brick but not one little gizmo to enable a basic skill?

[round sinew]

You get them from your boss or the coordinator, or a cache it something, not the JTF

[sick lantern]

yea exactly

[woven basalt]

wait, are you talking about the player agent here?

the didnt "have" the tech, and they arent in charge (they do the grunt work), plus, you do it at a terminal.

[sick lantern]

you tap a few buttons on a PC in a JTF safe house and you get skills

on a laptop

did we order it off of fuckin Amazon prime?

[mint citrus]

Yes

[woven basalt]

it sounds more like all you're doing is connecting your ISAC to the larger SHD network.

since part of it is getting "operational" status.

[sick lantern]

Yea, and not pulling SHD tech out of thin air

[woven basalt]

yeah, youre the only one stuck on getting them "physically".

[sick lantern]

I would say that’s you ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[woven basalt]

i told you way back here

but you keep hammering the "physically" getting part.

[sick lantern]

?? I said we already have them which would make sense and is supported by what we see in game