division-universe

[cold bramble]

yeah him

[vivid inlet]

Oh you mean @sleek plover

[sleek plover]

Slumbers in my lair

[vivid inlet]

Oh shoot it's him

Well at least he's asleep

[sleek plover]

"Kill...kill more LMB scum..."

He sleeptalks

[vivid inlet]

thinks why is this becoming a weird roleplaying thing

[sleek plover]

mostly because im bored i guess

nothing new is happening in div2 and we need to wait til at leaat december of all times

[vivid inlet]

Well you could try getting all the exotics that are currently in game

[sleek plover]

i really hope this time they add some ex-LMB branch of BT

[vivid inlet]

I would love that

[sleek plover]

and this time i want them humiliated

like them being lynched by civiliana

[vivid inlet]

I would want them to kill of all the civilians

[sleek plover]

i mean have u seen whats going on in myanmar?

thats exactly what lmb does

i cant understand how anyone would be a fan of it

[vivid inlet]

Why would some people be a fan of the Purge franchise or Any other slasher film

[sleek plover]

...i crave denny's for some reason

[vivid inlet]

Well go get some

[sleek plover]

cant

im overseas in korea

and i cant go back cuz covid

[vivid inlet]

Wait you're telling me you're on a boat

[sleek plover]

nope

just a korean american dude

who happens to be staying long term in korea

and than covid happened, so its gonna take even more than i planned

[vivid inlet]

You could go to the nearest DZ and wait for a DZ drop possibly containing some Dennis

[sleek plover]

i like muffins

[vivid inlet]

Okay I guess

[cold bramble]

https://tenor.com/view/chocolate-muffin-muffin-muffins-muffin-day-gif-18653571

[vivid inlet]

It looks too beautiful to be true

[cold bramble]

oh did you click it or do you not want to click it?

[vivid inlet]

I did click it

[cold bramble]

that's a nice muffin right

[vivid inlet]

Yesh

It looks more delicious than a chocolate muffin without chocolate chips

[sleek plover]

seriously

stuff happening at miyanmar is exactly how LMB did in div1

[gloomy sand]

its this guy again

[cold bramble]

It is a thing, it's called white tusk

[sleek plover]

Im not sure they are even canon lore wise, think they are more elite guard

[cold bramble]

It's just on legendary difficulty you see them tho

[sleek plover]

there are literally zero.mention in dialogue that about them

[cold bramble]

Ye you have to go onto the wiki to see it

[sleek plover]

i know about them, im just skeptical whether they are ex lmb or just elite guards

[cold bramble]

I'm pretty sure it does say something about lmb being recruited into black tusk, but it's that simple, no mention of white tusk or anything

[sleek plover]

and i read the wiki article too, and lmb joining are mostlt mentioned on rushers

[cold bramble]

It's weird how they've got shd tech too

[gloomy sand]

theyre elite guards

white tusk are black tusk that are much more accurate and more highly trained than normal black tusk

[sleek plover]

thats what i thought

[gloomy sand]

they also have extra specializations

aka big gunner has a stinger hive he can use

rushers now have bomb drones

etc

[cold bramble]

Where does the wiki get its info, is it managed or crowd sourced? Specifically thinking about the sentence saying:

They consist of Black Tusk units and the remnants of the Last Man Battalion that survived during the eight months of inactivity.
It sounds assertive, as if it's not just speculation but actually based on lore/comms/something else?

[sick lantern]

sometimes it is, sometimes it isn’t

[sick lantern]

basically, whenever it doesn’t cite a source/the origin of the information, take it with a relatively large grain of salt

[round sinew]

A hunk of salt, if you will.

A chunk, perhaps.

[sick lantern]

half a kilogram of salt

[round sinew]

I'm sorry, this is America.

Can you use real measurements, please?

[sick lantern]

3 and 9/72ths of a pound

[round sinew]

Ah

[drifting lotus]

Whats heavier, a kilogram of steel, or a kilogram of feathers?

[drifting lotus]

I think there is intel from when you die against Rushers and supports in black tusk specifically saying that theyre Ex LMB.? At least thats what I think I remember?

[cold bramble]

Ah, cool! I'm going to start reading those boxes more carefully.

[sick lantern]

“When I'd heard about these weird healing station things being used by the LMB in New York, part of me wished I had designed them so that our side could use them. But the rest of me knows we'd all be better off without these creepy AF doctor boxes.”

bruh
our side did design them?

[drifting lotus]

They did but Im guessing theyre talking about the support station variant that the LMB started getting their hands on...... Finding lore reasons to not use support stations and rely on a charge based hive...

[round sinew]

How are they creept

Bad lore is bad

[drifting lotus]

I mean, thats not for me to say 🤣

But Im guessing its because is weird to have a drone variant that actually heals health rather than just repair armor.

[sick lantern]

indeed

[sick lantern]

if the Cleaners come back in a third game

they deserve M2s like they had in promotional material

[sick lantern]

(and i'd say they had them in concept art too cus I remember that, but I just cannot find any, or much concept art at all)

[cold bramble]

if they become more of an organized group like vivian tried to make them

what they have fits the makeshift vibe they have still

[sick lantern]

there needs to be a bit more visual (and gameplay?) variation even in enemies of the same archetype

that would fit most factions at least

could use the excuse that they raided an armoury or museum or something, which is why only some of them have them

even when all the infantrymen were packing AKs, they still held the vibe right

so it doesnt seem too farfetched imo

i just think it would be kinda cool 😩

[cold bramble]

possibly, the factions deserve a makeover, it's kind of unfair BT has one despite being the newest one

[sick lantern]

maybe the WSP alliance should return as a sort of Best-Of lineup as Div 1 enemies? with new looks (and bits of shared equipment?) to reflect the time passed
(but that could be very hard to reasonably justify)

i simply do not want to see the woshy boys fall to the wayside

[peak mist]

\

[spare arrow]

/

[gaunt ice]

I

[stoic ridge]

hello agents

[sick lantern]

good afternoon

[ivory sapphire]

they have different backgrounds, a lot switched factions, or joined a new one after theirs collapsed like the example above of LMB -> BT

[stoic ridge]

what are the named weapons that have future perfection? only scalpel ?

yeah and mechanical animal

@stoic ridge ty CIA

[sick lantern]

you speak to yourself?

[stoic ridge]

@sick lantern 🙂

[sick lantern]

cleaners members switched factions?

[stoic ridge]

whats the skill vanity mod slot is used for?

it seems i dont have anything to equipe in that slot why?

[cold bramble]

i would tell you but it's not a spoiler

[sick lantern]

yea this isn’t really the place for those questions my dude

this is the l o r e zone

[sick lantern]

very true

rioters concept art designs were pretty slick, and i’m not an expert but it’s sort of like IRL gang outfits

[digital hemlock]

think watch dogs have some of the nicer designs

[sick lantern]

also in concept arts they had MP5Ks and i’m sad that we didn’t get them

[chrome trench]

I'm either stunningly stupid or stunningly stupid
Can someone tell me where the small pox strain originated from
I know it was a weapon

I don't have all of the collectible voice logs n such yet

[spare arrow]

Green poison is a weaponized strain of small pox, made by Gordon Amherst.

IIRC Green Poison is called Variola Chimera, or something of the like

[chrome trench]

:processing:

This Gordon is unfamiliar to me

[gaunt ice]

you played div1 yet?

cuz ill spoil it if you havent

[chrome trench]

This answers all of my questions thank you I understand why I don't know now

[gaunt ice]

is that sarcasm

[chrome trench]

No

[gaunt ice]

seriously,i have a hard time trying to work out if someones fucking with me,all the time

[chrome trench]

I'm just in a very weird sleep deprived mood

I did not play division 1 or read any Clancy books

🐟

[gaunt ice]

ill make it quick

Gordon Amherst created Green Poison from,get this,coding viruses together

he stole that trick from a Russian virologist,made it,and put them on a 100 buck bill

spread it in Black Friday at NYC

he died from his own virus

[chrome trench]

This does not explain the big w

W hy

[gaunt ice]

something about natural selection

one sec

[chrome trench]

Makes sense

Keeny in a past life

Got it

[gaunt ice]

not really Keener nuts,more of Joseph Seed nuts

[chrome trench]

I mean

They kinda the same

[gaunt ice]

he believes that by releasing the virus,it would wipe out alot of humans,and save the earth

Keener is more like the revenge type

[chrome trench]

Keen was close enough ™️

Restart the world and make it pure from the ground up

Rebuild where the last failed

[gaunt ice]

Keener in d2 is total,utterly,bullshit compared to his d1 counterpart

[chrome trench]

I wouldn't know

[gaunt ice]

next time you see @round sinew around,he'll make a 3-hour speech about how Keener in div2 sucked

[spare arrow]

3.5

[chrome trench]

I mean I didn't even know Div 1 Keener and I thought he sucked

~ signed, author of six years who is extremely picky about game writing

[gaunt ice]

7

[spare arrow]

his normal speeches go for ~3.5 hours

you just timed 2 seperate speeches

[gaunt ice]

you should try them,its decent

lore-wise,gameplay-wise,and you can have multiple exotics

[spare arrow]

but the exotics are much less gameplay changing

[chrome trench]

I don't have the money bro

[spare arrow]

thats fair

[chrome trench]

I shell out hundreds on my appearance every month lmao

[gaunt ice]

you do know they give it out for free a while ago right?

[chrome trench]

This isn't a while ago

This is now

Right now I'm wondering where the division came from

🐙

[gaunt ice]

i mean the game was free a while ago

[spare arrow]

The Division, or more aptly the Strategic Homeland Division (SHD, pronounced Shade) was a secret group who were activated as part of the previous president's Directive 51.

[gaunt ice]

The Strategic Homeland Division,SHD for short,or Division,is a unit made out of sleeper agents

[spare arrow]

heh

[gaunt ice]

dang it,youre 1 step faster

you won

heres something else:they were formed after a project called "Dark Winter"

and Aspect's second favourite gun too

[chrome trench]

President just had winter depression one year

[spare arrow]

"Extremis Malice, Extrema Remedia", the SHD's modus operandi, means "Desperate times call for desperate measures". SHD agents have all the authority they require to carry out their mission.

[chrome trench]

Put together a team

[gaunt ice]

in all seriousness,the project proved that if there were to be a nation-wide security threat,the government will 100% fall apart

[digital hemlock]

still playing div1, tho i find div2 less clusterphobic

[chrome trench]

Well

Yeah
Thats just like real life

[gaunt ice]

i mean,if the US Goverment formed SHD,we wouldnt know

[spare arrow]

We'd have no idea, until shit hit the fan.

[gaunt ice]

and Dark Winter is actually real

[spare arrow]

Dark Winter happened, yeah. Back in 2001.

[chrome trench]

No matter who you think you are, when you're facing annihilation and have time to think about it before it happens you will have an intrinsic genetic panic response

[gaunt ice]

https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/our-work/events-archive/2001_dark-winter/about.html

correction:Nation-wide chemical terrorism

[chrome trench]

Human panic [anxiety] will lead to rash decisions often to the detriment of the situation's outcome

[digital hemlock]

fark winter, also covid

[spare arrow]

Thats why the Division was formed in-universe. They needed a task force of sorts that could operate to restore the peace through any means nessecary.

[chrome trench]

A government facing widespread civil unrest from an uncontrolled pathogen would be subject to said such poor judgement

If modern day is anything to go by, this is accurate

[spare arrow]

The SHD was established a good few years before the green poison outbreak, but they were only given overall training, no specific scenarios, as the agents needed to be adaptable, which... kinda backfired...

[gaunt ice]

and possibly been corrupted from the inside wayyyy before Green Poison

[spare arrow]

That too.

[gaunt ice]

plus with their fragile mentality,and the incompretence of the NYC's JTF

[chrome trench]

Well we did start exploring that possibility in the NYC expansion, no

An independent shadow network for rogues under ISAC isn't a quick project

Presumably

[gaunt ice]

the entirety of First Wave agents either died in the Dark Zones,or have gone rogue

[gaunt ice]

ANNA was created somewhere after d1 and before WoNY

[chrome trench]

Thats what I'm saying

[chrome trench]

Relation to this

[gaunt ice]

you done the Manhunts,no?

[chrome trench]

Well

well.

I did the first two toward Jupiter for this season yesterday does th a t count

[gaunt ice]

not really,but ok enough

[spare arrow]

They'll unlock as time goes on. Just keep doin them.

[chrome trench]

I got division 2 like a year and a half ago
Then I stopped playing it for an eon and just came back to it

[spare arrow]

Well, welcome back.

[gaunt ice]

so,imagine recruiting mad killers,psychopaths,and fragile-minded individuals into the supposed best Black Ops of the modern days

the comms pointed out that the recruiters have been cutting corners in terms of,ya know,recruiting

[chrome trench]

So WWII Germany

[gaunt ice]

there's this one Manhunt target who only became an Agent because his sister supplied the Army

the sister is really important for future games,just bear that in mind

[cold bramble]

As someone who has many years of military experience, the recruiters for SHD are absolutely terrible/trash at their job. Like, fucking mind numbingling bad. Even for story/fictional standpoints. For your normal soldiers/marines/airman, etc.., okay got it, but no way would that pass for such a calling (sad but true dont @ me). As far as the kind of specialized person SHD should be gunning for, no way in fucking hell would anyone make that list from what the game showcases. But it makes a good game? So... yeah why not.. fuck logic and good story telling right?

Hell half the people that get accepting into SF or Rangers have more brain cells and reasonable conscience than 90% of anyone portrayed in the game. But again, it makes for entertainment and hollywood tropes so they do it.

https://tenor.com/view/money-talks-mr-krabs-spongebob-i-love-money-gif-15630097

[sick lantern]

Bush did it

[chrome trench]

Who

Hello

[sick lantern]

i’m not even joking

[chrome trench]

Which one of the brush was it

[sick lantern]

there’s more than one? George W Bush

ithink

[chrome trench]

Of course

[sick lantern]

the one from 2007

[round sinew]

REEEEEE

[gaunt ice]

HE CAME

[round sinew]

Well, i try to do that at least once to twice a day.

[gaunt ice]

Isn’t that like every college student?

[sleek plover]

damn i hate lmb

[sick lantern]

the more things change, the more they stay the same

[stoic ridge]

I suggest a live event, that affects all the New York area

[gaunt ice]

that line rings a bell,but where?

[sick lantern]

||Price or Shepherd in MW2||

[gaunt ice]

ah yes,captain P-rice

[sick lantern]

Captain Rice
you never should have fried here

[gaunt ice]

That sounds like a name for a dish in the military

What do they say after finishing that meal and dump the remaining away?

goodbye,captain Rice

[vivid inlet]

Damn I love LMB

[stoic ridge]

shady and malicious organization operating in the shadow somehow got access to the SHD servers location and the whole division network. ofc with the help of an unknown rogue agent.

the whole SHD network in New York went down total blackout ... the city face a risk of becoming a new dark zone

[sick lantern]

i don’t think the JTF really need the SHD network to keep the city stable

[cold bramble]

the network only affects us smh

makes us lose our super powers pepelaugh

[stoic ridge]

the wall street guys invested in creating the dollar flu at some shady unofficial evil labs, with the help of the corrupt ppl at the head of the CIA and NSA, wall street provided the founds, NSA CIA provided the logistics and ways to facilitate the wide spread.

[sick lantern]

pretty sure Amherst did most of that

unless they retconned that in Div 2 idk

[stoic ridge]

spreading the virus at the right time and right moment "Black Friday",they used brain washed ex KGB Russian secret agent to develop the dollar flu. he has a master degree in bio chemicals and viral diseases.

[sick lantern]

amherst is a “brain washed ex russian secret agent” of course!

[stoic ridge]

i hope to see Amherst in the division movie burn alive.

[sick lantern]

burn alive and not die to his own virus, cus they wasn’t poetic or reflective of his views or anything

[cold bramble]

i don't think he'll get spotlighted because his motives might piss off some people

this movie put us in a bad light! etc.

[sick lantern]

people get offended by eco terrorists?

[cold bramble]

eco terrorists being offended by being treated like terrorists

[sick lantern]

so? fuck em

[stoic ridge]

who do you think will be the responsible of creating the virus and spreading it in the movie?

ofc they should involve Russia what do you think?

[cold bramble]

could use vitaly "accidently" creating it and an "unnamed" person he worked with released it

stays true to the story

[sick lantern]

why would they do that? it’s Amherst’s doing

[stoic ridge]

there is no such thing calle ""accidently creating a virus", it serves a purpose a goal to whoever created it, maybe they want to see the whole world burn in chaos, maybe money motives and profit..

@sick lantern Amherst has ties with the KGB so he has his agendas

[sick lantern]

money won’t really matter when most of the people on Earth are dead

[sick lantern]

Amherst made his motives quite clear, unless there’s some retcons going on that I didn’t know about

[stoic ridge]

Spreading a virus killing billions for the ultimate goal its called "The biggest swipe" complete destruction... for a new beginning...a Unified and border less world with one currency, no religions and a handful of rulers around the table to guide the remaining brainless human sheeples.

[sick lantern]

I feel like you’re extrapolating a lot of information here

[whole spear]

what do we know about the socolov family

[sick lantern]

Sokolov*

[whole spear]

ya them. what do we know about them? I saw a yt saying year 3 will have lots to do with them

besides the idea they make smg gears

yt video about a dev comment. i'll say rather accurate

[sick lantern]

link the vid

[whole spear]

but what do we know about the sokolov family regardless? besides they're russian and make gears for smg

[stoic ridge]

The Sokolov's are rich and powerful family with arm dealing and selling backgrounds they are from Russian-Jewish descent... they have their agendas too so they serve their interests and protect their assets.

[sick lantern]

https://thedivision.fandom.com/wiki/Natalya_Sokolova

https://thedivision.fandom.com/wiki/Felix_"Kestrel"_Sokolov

[sick lantern]

Jewish descent? when’d we learn this

[stoic ridge]

@sick lantern all the things im writing are just from my mind there are no truth or source

[sick lantern]

Right.

I thought as much

[whole spear]

i'll do you better. here's the article itself https://in.ign.com/tom-clancys-the-division-2/156929/interview/the-division-2-lore-gameplay-story-coop-single-player-mission-trick-dempsey-interview

sokolov still creating trouble

means some stuff in div2 are because of them

scheuffer reports to somebody. do we know who they are?

[stoic ridge]

Natalya Sokolova is a prominent figure of the Sokolov's family, she inherited her dad's fortune after his death in a tragic and suspicious train accident in Siberia, after she finished her army service the KGB approached her and offered her to work with them she declined the offer.

[whole spear]

this is mentioned after you finished invaded camp white oak

[sick lantern]

isn’t it Sokolov

[whole spear]

is it rumored or confirmed tho

[sick lantern]

Sokolov is the “ceo and founder of the Black Tusk” so probably

[whole spear]

ooooo

so we do know the russians are behind bt

[stoic ridge]

her dad's name is "Petrov Sokolova"

[whole spear]

ok so its possible russians made ANNA and encouraged insurgents then

[sick lantern]

her dad’s name is Alexey...

[whole spear]

would be funny if her dad's name is actually Vladimir

[stoic ridge]

lol

[sick lantern]

no, Keener and Parnell did that

[whole spear]

oh wow keener's so good to make his own network

[night lagoon]

nah keener made theo do it

[whole spear]

so who actually is behind the insurgents then

[sick lantern]

Insurgents?

[whole spear]

besides the idea that the division left agents for dead

[viral shell]

Just bear in mind by the way that russian surnames change between male and female in some cases. So the dad is Sokolov, but the daughter is Sokolova

[whole spear]

so...boris and borisa

[sick lantern]

you mean Rogue Agents?

[whole spear]

...by what insurgency means...yes. rogue agents

[sick lantern]

i’ve never heard anyone call them “Insurgents” before but I guess that’s what they are

[viral shell]

Most agents went rogue during the first wave, keener recruited a number of them, and the true sons also got some of them

and BT also got some others

[sick lantern]

no one’s “behind” them, they’re just selfish assholes who want power (with a few exceptions)

[stoic ridge]

keener going rogue was purposely orchestrated to spread doubt and confusion between division agents. doesn't that wring a bell to you "Divide and conquer"

[whole spear]

umm ok. faye committed treason on ellis. ellis committed high treason on his country

[cold bramble]

just an btw, people have accidentally created many things, what i meant by accidently was like he stumbled upon a super powered version in the process of creating an antivirus/something for good

[whole spear]

division acts upon martial law

people in settlements are militias

[cold bramble]

the point being made is that he wasn't intentionally creating it exactly like the games

[viral shell]

The question becomes, whats next for the SHD? Its technically leaderless, and is now acting on its own agency effectively, deciding whats right or wrong

[cold bramble]

puts the blame on him instead of using amherst completely avoiding the outrage

[sick lantern]

we do that regardless

with Ellis dead, little has changed

[viral shell]

technically, the SHD could be interpreted as a rogue agency itself

[whole spear]

um...we haven't had an update since ellis died so we can't say anything has changed

the cliff hanger is at ellis died, congress dispersed, what now?

and year 3 supposingly will take over and continue from there

unless they made year 3 to be prequel to the entire division series then I got nothing

[sick lantern]

How? We have presidential authority

[viral shell]

with no federal congress, the story could turn very ugly with individual states declaring themselves independent of the union, and the USA ceasing to exist

If theres no president, theres no presidential authroity

[whole spear]

for all we know we might be airdropping into various states to reunite the people in truth and love

probably extend our reach to the stars above because why not

[viral shell]

Maybe in D3 we will spread out our ops to philly?

[stoic ridge]

Everyone around the tight table of power want a piece of the cake... the sokolov's want this virus crisis to continue as long as possible for the profitable black market shady arm deals with the different fighting factions. because chaos make some ppl even more richer

[whole spear]

there's reports from all over the world to ellis or high command

langley report or something. found in faye manhunt at the holly lodge desk

[sick lantern]

oh god the langley reports
“why should i care about africa”

[whole spear]

its my home country sir

[stoic ridge]

yeah im african IRL and i was offended by that

[sick lantern]

also the bit where this leading CIA/Military/whatever guy doesn’t understand who is and isn’t a nuclear power

[whole spear]

if I can get into the reasons...africa's the least of america's concern regarding powers, especially when america itself is facing a crisis

basically...people's reaction to wakanda during the press conference at the end of bp movie

[sick lantern]

not as if the balance of power was in the most flux it’s probably ever been in history

[whole spear]

maybe the high command doesn't think africa is able to launch an invasion to america

oh ya africa has nuclear power

[viral shell]

Also, the EU and far east are supposed to be stable regions with still fully functional society and have gotten past the worst of the crisis

[whole spear]

stable? wasn't there a report on middle east being devastated?

[stoic ridge]

Africa is the first concern when it comes to arms selling to different African countries in war, because that represent profit for the major US arm selling companies.

[viral shell]

I said Far east and EU

[whole spear]

oh right far east not middle east xD

[viral shell]

ME destabilised

Africa's status is "unknown"

[whole spear]

well I'm not american or into foreign politics so I can't comment more

[viral shell]

as is Australias

[whole spear]

I only know a lot of aids are sent to africa and somali pirates

might be deviated through pop culture tho

[sick lantern]

realistically parts of the middle east would be mostly unharmed due to their highly rural and isolated nature
it’s probably business as usual for the tribes of Afghanistan for example

[viral shell]

I think the US west coast - cali, oregon and washington state are stable as well arent they?

[whole spear]

most of middle east is still rural area?

[sick lantern]

it’s possible, Valassi reports in Div 1 that the quarantine in the US held so parts of it might not be as bad as DC/NYc

[stoic ridge]

Africa is the biggest open lab on earth everyone can try what the hell they want a virus a new gun tech... anything

[whole spear]

I see dubai and abudabi (are they the same place) I think its not as rural as I think

[sick lantern]

parts, not all of it

[whole spear]

lol ya africa's involved in RE too. the virus is found in a plant in africa

[spare arrow]

...lets not?

[sick lantern]

Dubai’s probably gone full Spec Ops: The Line

[stoic ridge]

@spare arrow sorry

[sick lantern]

god i forgot how annoying this guy in the Langley reports is

“sounds like a load of socialist bullshit”

[whole spear]

if you gotta listen to 10 reports at a time by 1 person about foreign politics while dealing with leg chunggas and invasions every other week I think anyone will turn into this guy

[sick lantern]

he’s just aggressively stupid
the nukes, discarding a whole continent, the socialism comment, and the part where he says “why they hell would they stop [drilling for oil]?”

the workers are dead you twat

[cold bramble]

no workers, no money, no money, no oil, not worth

[whole spear]

I'm not this guy

[stoic ridge]

Oil is still important in these times? no car is moving in the world of the division.

[whole spear]

well you need oil to drill tunnels

[cold bramble]

even if everything aligned, the oil would hit $0 just like what happened inrl

[whole spear]

and oil to blow nancy up

and then of course oil for cleaners to continue the legacy of joe ferro

and finally polycarb's made of oil

[sick lantern]

“a continent with virtually no geopolitical significance” so bad

[stoic ridge]

Cleaners have their infrastructures and ways to fund their projects and agendas.

[viral shell]

They are outside DC and NYC - plus we see helicopters and planes fly over

[whole spear]

which also reminds me. red barrels. red barrels everywhere. they got oil in them

so ya oil's pretty important even during the apocalypse

[viral shell]

I mean, we only actually get to see 60% of DC itself - all the outskirts are OOB, and its not told what they are like

[stoic ridge]

red barrels don't come from official oil sources Cleaners have oil refineries and extracting drilling areas.

[whole spear]

most post-apocalypse pop culture suggests some of the most important things for survival involves food water shelter oil and transportation

you need oil for your gun too

[stoic ridge]

With all the rich division lore and different factors i hope the movie will be great.

[sick lantern]

the director seems to know what the movie needs to be accurate to the game so hopefully it will be good

the division lends itself well to the plot of a movie anyway

[stoic ridge]

yeah indeed

[whole spear]

when's the movie coming

[sick lantern]

fuck knows

i don’t think they even start filming until later this year

[whole spear]

whose casted

[sick lantern]

Jake Gyllenhall and Jessica Chastain

director is Rawson Thurber

[whole spear]

I regret asking that question. I got no clue who these people are xD

[sick lantern]

Jake Gyllenhall was Mysterio in Spider-Man: Far From Home

[cold bramble]

Michael Fassbender needs to be keener if he is in the movie

[whole spear]

ah yes that I know

[sick lantern]

Jessica Chastain was in Interstellar, The Martian, It Chapter Two, The Help

[whole spear]

I watched none of those xD

[sick lantern]

me neither

[mint citrus]

Interstellar was pretty good

[candid nebula]

In the dlc for New York at the end boss fight during the cut scene if you ads you can move during the cut scene it sounds not like a lot but if you are by yourself it helps to get that little bit of time

[vernal shadow]

what's his work?

i mean, what is his previous films?

[cold bramble]

IMDB can answer that.. just do a quick google.

[turbid jolt]

hello guys

[sick lantern]

hello

welcome to the lore zone

[gaunt ice]

Welcome to the place where 50k people used to live,until Massive rushes the story so bad,Rivsie’s internet burnt itself

[digital hemlock]

hopefully TD3 will have a better story

TD2 story feels like being written by randoms

[gaunt ice]

Not really,everything is ok until Hornet came back to life

Then it just sounds like a fanfic

Anyyyy time now Romulus

...yup,still waiting

[steel radish]

Honestly S1-2 can be non canon and nothing would happen to the story

[gaunt ice]

S1 was a bit more charming to me,since it really have build ups and it’s the first one

But then s2,they just go full Superman in Justice league

“Wake the fuck up Hornet,we have a lore to destroy”

[sick lantern]

lmao

div 2 story is like they had their ideas for a grandiose story but they half arsed it eight times over

[viral shell]

I dunno, the lore is sound right up until keeners death

after that.....its kinda cobbled together

[sick lantern]

right from the get go, the BT were pretty much just a retread of the LMB

[viral shell]

I think it was a case of "we had keener as the main antagonist. He's dead. Now what?"

So inserting this PMC into it (like you said, LMB warmed over) seemed like the best idea. The mystery is supposed to deepen over who is really behind the BT, and how we at least disable their presence in NYC and DC.

TD3 could tell the story of us going to say, Moscow (which collapsed in a similar way to DC and NYC), and chasing down the real money and leadership of the BT

The rest of TD2 will be us kicking the BT out of DC and NYC, and putting together a new administration

[digital hemlock]

TD3 MC will be a rogue agent

Seemingly hunted by ISAC and BT

And you get to interact with Hunters...

[sick lantern]

solution, don’t kill Keener

[cold bramble]

"I can't believe you fell for it"

No, Theo, it's the only way I can ensure your protection detail stays in jail. Terminally.

Cluster seekers + turret is a lot less cheese when you don't have access to your armor on kill mods and talents though

Offing Keener: yeah, Massive's idea that "the network of rogues outlives him!" is a massive tortured wreck when it runs headlong into the Black Tusk conspiracy

[sick lantern]

also, caring about someone else’s schemes rather than his own survival seems somewhat OOC for Keener

[round sinew]

Also wanting to end humanity seems to be kind of a turn.

Man is supposed to be this extremely motivated and intelligent loner who's a sociopath and is 3 steps ahead of everyone else.

What does he do with that?

Oh, he tries to exterminate humanity?

Cool...

[sick lantern]

even if he did want to end the world- the eclipse virus is such a stupid way of going about that

[gaunt ice]

if he's really 3 step ahead,he would just travel back in time and help project Black Winter success,so that there would be no division

[round sinew]

Might as well tbh

[gaunt ice]

think about it:in an alternate timeline,Keener invented time travel(in the middle of the ruined nyc of course cuz why not?),goes back in time,sabotage Black Winter by either helping it to success or just straight up kill everyone related in that so the reports never comes in

[sick lantern]

but that would cause a time paradox as he would never receive SHD training

[gaunt ice]

the universe would find a way to fix itself,much like how it recovers from Kirby's bullshit

[sick lantern]

Kirby is the fixer not the problem

he’s a good boy

[gaunt ice]

he is both

remember how he screwed up things only to fix them?

[sick lantern]

that was due to a failure to communicate on other peoples’ parts

[gaunt ice]

beating the shit out of dedede only to find that he did not steal his strawberry cake?

[sick lantern]

that was a reasonable assumption

[gaunt ice]

nonsense!you cant just fuck things up and say its "mIsCoMmUnIcAtIoN"

[cold bramble]

The impression I got from Keener is that he wanted a new world on his terms and his terms alone. Disagree and get a faceful of Eclipse. Or maybe he just shoots you.

Dark Winter is only one of several tabletop exercises past and present that highlighted the "lmao we are so screwed" aspect of a smallpox bioterror attack. There's also Atlantic Storm, whose interactive version I have no idea on its functionality following the sunset of Flash https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/our-work/events-archive/2005_atlantic_storm/flash/index.htm

[viral shell]

The question becomes, what in reality would have been the best thing to do after keener's death for the game?

put yourself in a devs shoes, and you are asked to put forward a post-keener story for the game

And adding more maps is out of the question

The need to come up with a post keener story using only the already existing assets would have been a challenge

[round sinew]

Manhunts were not the best option.

[viral shell]

but it was a cheap and quick bit of content to put in

[gaunt ice]

How about not locking every piece of lore info behind a grind fest

Just detective work?

I mean,Ubisoft can definitely do more

[cold bramble]

just lazyness putting it into a live service system instead of a book if they really needed to expand on warlords

they have that option and they used it before

global events would've been just fine if they just said they were working on something new that would take time just like they did with the reruns

[viral shell]

Yeah, but they forgot that they werent dealing with whining kids (mostly) who whinge if they don't get something regularly. So throwing filler content in is the easiest solution

[sick lantern]

which would be all fine and dandy, if we actually got much else

[viral shell]

At least we know that stuff is in the works and we just need to be patient

[sick lantern]

considering the game was supposed to be ended, i doubt it will be particularly worth the wait

[viral shell]

did they actually say the game was coming to an end? Cause form what I saw, they have gone to lengths to say that it isnt ended yet

[spare arrow]

They said TU12 was planned to be the last update, but when the community went "hey we want more" they said they'd continue developing the game. As of RN they are making more stuff but need time to do so.

[cold bramble]

new content is good but rushing gave us faye lau's mission 😐 or is it rushing? the massive signs of cut cutscenes and all that

[sick lantern]

my theory is that the Faye Lau cutscene was going to be big time sequel bait, but then the Star Wars license opened up so plans for Div 3 changed

idk actually

there are other reasons why they would cut the cutscene

but surely it must’ve contradicted with their plans for future content

[cold bramble]

[sick lantern]

maybe they cut it cus it would’ve (somehow) been a more dissatisfying ending, but Keener’s death still happened so I doubt that happened

ohhhhh

[sick lantern]

based completely off your personal views of what you want, who/what do you want to appear/happen in Div 3

[spare arrow]

div2 but with 4 guns

[sick lantern]

🤔which guns

[spare arrow]

no you have 4 gun slots, 1 sidearm 3 main

[sick lantern]

o

well it sounded like bullshit but then i remembered you can carry two guns and a specialisation weapon sooo

[spare arrow]

Aw fuck

5 guns

[sick lantern]

madness

[spare arrow]

Absolute madness.

[sick lantern]

they should let us dual wield

[spark canopy]

Im surprised there isn't a akimbo exotic

[sick lantern]

if they can excuse giving us a minigun, they can let us go akimbo

[cold bramble]

Dr. Amherst still being alive because of isac being shitty as far back as 6-7 months ago before d2

would be interesting

[sick lantern]

he and keener shared a nice cup of tea and keener helped him fake his death

ISAC is Orwellian, Black Mirror levels of intelligent so how does ISAC being inaccurate even work

[spare arrow]

"Dont question it" is how, ig

[sick lantern]

ISAC: can accurately reconstruct a scene of a room full of people from multiple days/weeks ago using little to no data
also ISAC: cant navigate through a gaping fucking hole in a wall

[viral shell]

If Div 3 is released, I can see them looking at bungie and Destiny 2, and going "you know, we could kinda copy that model. Multiplayer openworld capable of 24 players in any given map.....no more levels, just a gearscore and season level from start that resets each season.....hrm........"

then restrict certain content by gearscore

or even just make SHD level the main levelling progress, and do away with 1-40 kinda thing

[sick lantern]

i feel like the separation of the 1-30/40 levelling process and the endgame is important to giving the game some sort of impactful plot

[viral shell]

I dunno, they could just soak 1-40 into shd level, so you start at SHD 1 as a new charcter, then it just gets higher and higher

[sick lantern]

so it’ll be the same thing with a new coat of paint pretty much

[viral shell]

I wouldnt be surprised though if they considered making our openworld permanently multiplayer in some way

[pale echo]

But the thing is that with SHD you get benefits, so in a way you are saying that we should from the start choose what we want to maximise first, offensive/defensive/skills/etc

[viral shell]

keep the majority of the map pve only and keep the whole DZ thing as well

well, they'd have to adjust how the SHD levels work. Maybe no benefits until SHD 40 or something?

[cold bramble]

shd would have to take the place of light, they would be going back on what they wanted if they brought back the gearscore system back

easier to rework then to add

[sick lantern]

I saw some fan art of a Cleaner in armour akin to a True Sons tank’s, that sort of cool design is why I think we need more variety within the same factions

[viral shell]

You know, I get the feeling that now the world is in a real-life pandemic and things havent actually collapsed, that ubisoft are beginning to wonder whether its worth continuing with the entire division game franchise, having realised that the human behaviour models and predictions were almost entirely wrong and governments are actually far more capable of controlling their populace than thought.

[cold bramble]

gearscore shudders

All models are broken, some are useful.

If the circumstances around the Midtown Manhattan DZ and beyond are anything to go by, even the in universe government underestimated the amount of people that would, following minor motivation, reach for the nearest implement to kill the person across them by an order of magnitude. At least.

[sick lantern]

i don’t think they were trying to be massively accurate to how the situation would unfold irl

[gaunt ice]

You do realize this is nowhere near as deadly as dollar flu right?

[viscid sage]

wait what was the cut faye lau cutscene?

[sick lantern]

we don’t know, because it was cut

[cold bramble]

You have one segment of the End of Watch trailer, but that's it

[vivid inlet]

Tbh I was really looking forward to punching Faye in the face

Just like it was shown in the trailer

[gaunt ice]

I remember something about how it was suppose to be a sequel bait,but then Ubisoft got that Star Wars license

[sick lantern]

that’s my theory at least

[merry spindle]

Dual Akimbo, that is COD right, where that was so insane?

[sick lantern]

in cod you can akimbo some shotguns which is pretty crazy realistically

pistols and smgs? maybe
but firing a shotgun one handed would fuck up your wrist

[gaunt ice]

I mean,shd members are professional so I doubt they’ll akimbo stuff

While some cod characters have more of a shady background,like mercs and freelance killers

You know,the amateurs?

[sick lantern]

some of them are dumb enough to try it

although, crossbows aren’t all too “professional” either

[gaunt ice]

It can be argued that,ya know,special operators can have special gears

In this case,a crossbow guarantee a fatal wound+armor piercing

But then SHD is like “lol exploding crossbows”

[gaunt ice]

The dum dum are probably all dead by now

[cold bramble]

pretty sure once you get into specialty you can customize

[gaunt ice]

Still,akimbo still sounds really unprofessional,with low accuracy,longer reload...

[sick lantern]

bullets do that too

[gaunt ice]

Crossbows do better?sometimes?

[sick lantern]

besides sound, a rifle round will always be better AFAIK

[round sinew]

Rifle rounds can be stopped by body armor

Crossbow bolts won't.

Crossbow bolts are stopped by the same armor that protects against knives. Not bullets.

[sick lantern]

“Current soft body armor can stop most handgun rounds (which has been the case for roughly 15 years), but armor plates are needed to stop rifle rounds and steel-core handgun rounds such as 7.62×25mm.”-Wikipedia

considering velocity lost over distance, anything that can meaningfully impact a rifle round will protect against crossbow bolts

[round sinew]

Incorrect.

Kevlar isn't made to stop a pointy ouchie.

It's bad to catch a explosion-propelled ouchie

Believe it or not, crossbows and bows don't fire with enough velocity for Kevlar to react to it.

That's why they make a whole separate build of soft armor for bladed weapons. Because an arrow or a knife will go right through Kevlar.

Now, ceramic plates? Fuhgedaboudit

Wearing chest pottery will stop shit.

[gaunt ice]

So why would the US Army thought it’s a great idea to put pottery dishes inside bulletproof vest,despite it breaking after a 2 feet fall?

[spare arrow]

Lighter than steel, easy to replace (just put in another plate) and pretty easy to carry around more than one.

and also you misunderstood what Romulus meant

Rom said "chest pottery will stop shit" as in it WILL stop stuff

[gaunt ice]

great,thanks

still,will it be strong enough to hold itself against melee?

[spare arrow]

ceramic? Yes, but why even get into a melee with it

[round sinew]

For the glory of the Emperor?

[cold bramble]

Lmaoooo

[vivid inlet]

Imagine if someone actually hated the LMB

[gaunt ice]

@sleek plover

[sleek plover]

U see stuff happening on myanmar?

Tjats what lmb are

[gaunt ice]

Technically lmb are a lot better than what’s happening there

[sleek plover]

they are exactly the same

Self righteous fascists

ruling over civilians with guns

and branding anyone who disobey them as criminals

[cold bramble]

Well, everyone loves to think they'd be rolling with the head honchos of insert faction here as opposed to that JTF guy begging to be given a chance like in that found footage. Or the Riker beside him...

[sleek plover]

If I have to choose one enmy faction to join, it would be either outcasts or rioters

[cold bramble]

Nah, Hyenas or bust.

[glass kestrel]

Alright, so

The point of a Division agent is that they're completely autonomous, correct? They have no real hierarchy beyond POTUS, and they are a "decentralized, autonomous entity endowed with executive powers"

[sick lantern]

yea pretty much

[glass kestrel]

So what the fuck is Manny

He's not an agent. He's not the president. If the division agents are meant to operate autonomously, why have a "Division Coordinator"?

[sick lantern]

well the hierarchy is still there cus an organised chain of command is a good thing to have, but Division agents are ready willing and able to operate without it

[glass kestrel]

Have you read Broken Dawn?

[sick lantern]

no

[glass kestrel]

Do you care if I spoil something that's not really important?

[sick lantern]

No

[glass kestrel]

Well in the book, the main agent, Garcia, is in contact with a JTF officer. Every time the JTF officer gives her recommendation on what Garcia should do, she has to state specifically, multiple times, that she cannot tell him what to do due to Directive 51. That all she is able to do is give recommendations. But Manny just straight-up orders all the agents around.

And again, if the point of an agent is to be autonomous, why have the job of "Division Coordinator" be a concept at all? I get if he's just a guy trying to help, maybe he's smarter and has more tactical field experience. That's fine. But the job "Division Coordinator" kinda goes against the main idea of a Division Agent.

[cold bramble]

Autonomous doesn't mean isolated though. Coordination benefits almost every complex task imaginable.

Working completely alone without any support network or external intel is not the "main idea" of a Division agent though.

[glass kestrel]

No, that's not what I'm saying.

[cold bramble]

It's a capability they have, and a legal advantage, that they can operate alone and make their own decisions. But it doesn't mean it's the baseline for missions when there are options.

[sick lantern]

well the JTF have the authority to order Division agents around but the SHD also has the authority to interject and change the command, for example in Times Square Power Relay and General Assembly
so Division agents answer to the JTF, except for when they see fit
and Division agents are trained to work autonomously, if there is no structure to support them- if the JTF still exists there’s no reason not to be integrated into their structure

[glass kestrel]

The JTF absolutely does not have the authority to order Division agents around.

[sick lantern]

they absolutely do

[glass kestrel]

"Once activated and deployed, a Division agent formally outranks all other tactical units in the field. This superseding authority lets Division teams cut through red-tape and bypass policy restrictions, laws, regulations, and jurisdictional boundaries as needed. Agents can freely organize local assets, civilian or military, to address local needs."

From "The World of The Division"

[cold bramble]

Yeah no, they have a partnership. I.e. they agreed to help out, so JTF "orders" them by telling them what they need to get done, but they have no actual mandate should the agent refuse.

[glass kestrel]

So, no, the JTF cannot order around Agents. It's the other way around.

[sick lantern]

they order us around, we order them around

[glass kestrel]

"Agents can freely organize local assets, civilian or military"

[cold bramble]

Whenever JTF says "You need to go to X" it's because the agent already agreed/offered JTF to help, it's voluntary temporary subservience. They're just taking instructions for things they agreed to do.

[sick lantern]

we can do that, when we need to
but we don’t need to because the JTF’s chain of command still exists

[glass kestrel]

Absolutely, that's fine. I understand the idea of partnership. What I don't understand is how there's a straight up job that puts a JTF officer over any Division agent.

[sick lantern]

because that’s how the chain of command works

we could start issuing all the orders and be at the top, but that would be counterproductive

[glass kestrel]

Yes, but if an agent "formally outranks all other tactical units in the field', then that means that any Division agent outranks any JTF officer, no matter where that JTF officer falls in his or her own chain of command. Chain of command is as follows:

President

Activated Division agent

Literally every JTF member

[sick lantern]

Yes, but we don’t enforce that because we don’t need to

[cold bramble]

I think it's a flaw in perspective as well, a coordinator is not "above" them, they facilitate operations. You listen to them because of their experience, big picture perspective, insights, etc.

[glass kestrel]

I understand the partnership idea. I know that division agents follow the JTF orders because it's just the right thing to do. It's productive. The JTF and Division are fighting the same fight, working together means the mission gets done. I understand all of that.

I just don't understand how the job of "Division Coordinator" exists.

If the Division is meant to be autonomous, meaning working without a chain of command, then how is there a predestinated job for someone who directs Division agents?

[cold bramble]

As an agent you can't know everything that's happening in the city but it would be nice if there was someone who kept track of it so you didn't have to ask every other agent what's going on, hence coordinator role is born.

You're not being forced to work with the coordinator, you're welcoming it since it means someone who can provide information and help prioritising the tasks/goal you want to achieve.

[glass kestrel]

That'd make sense if Manny did understand what was going on and and the agents decided to listen to him of their own volition

Except he wasn't. He was placed with the SHD.

[cold bramble]

Doesn't matter, the internal structure of the SHD still have other positions than just agents

The agents are not completely unbound/free radicals, they still need to submit to the rules, values and goals of the SHD (and when they don't they're classified as "rogue"). It's still a government/federal agency.

[glass kestrel]

Yeah, there are 3 branches to the SHD. Tactical agents, R&D, and Support, which is human resources and finance management.

[cold bramble]

The tac ops is split into three in itself as well, but that doesn't really change anything. There is no conflict in having a coordinator and having autonomous capabilities, and as we can see from story mode and legendary/raids/etc it's not uncommon for agents to work together for specific tasks after they've been activated and deployed. That doesn't mean anyone is a boss over anyone else.

Since they only answer to the president, but it's a bit cumbersome if every agent were to ask him personally, it makes sense to have someone who can relay the president's orders etc as well.

[glass kestrel]

Yeah, I understand that. Within Division teams and squads, they can internally decide who's the boss and who's fulfilling what role. In Agent Origins, there was clearly a team leader. I understand that agents can work with each other, and they can choose to work with others if the need arises. The point is that they're free to make those decisions themselves. I don't like the idea of a JTF dude just being pulled aside and told, from another JTF dude, "You're being placed with the SHD. You're gonna be their coordinator."

[sick lantern]

someone’s gotta do it

[glass kestrel]

Why not a Division agent?

[sick lantern]

oh, like Faye Lau

does it even matter?

[cold bramble]

Because it's a waste to have them sit in a building when they can be out in the field to begin with

[glass kestrel]

Yes. Kelso clearly fulfills that job during WoNY

[cold bramble]

But I think you're conflating hierarchy and roles somewhat, because it doesn't make Manny a boss just because he's coordinating. If anything he's in the serving position, being at the agents beck and call whenever they need.

You can either have 4 agents in the field and 1 agent coordinating or 5 agents in the field and an ex marine signal specialist (or whatever he was) do the coordination

[sick lantern]

^

the best person for the job should do it, and Manny was the best person available

[glass kestrel]

Or 4 agents in the field And 2 agents coordinating, like in WoNY

Or 8 agents in the field and 1 agents coordinating, like in Iron Horse.

[cold bramble]

And in all those cases you lose agents

So by any metric it's a worse solution

[glass kestrel]

My point is, there nothing stating how many agents can be fulfilling roles. Any number can be anywhere, and they don't have to abide by something stating, "only 4 agents can be in one team at a time". (Yes I know the in-game limit is 4 and 8 for raids, but I'm talking about in-universe)

[cold bramble]

But the number doesn't matter, you still lose out on agents in the field if you refuse to allow purely administrative functions

And there is really no upside to it

[glass kestrel]

But there are agents who's job is that administrative function. Ones that aren't trained for the field, but trained for intelligence.

maybe they're not called agents, but they're still members of the SHD.

[sick lantern]

they can fulfil that role if need be, but it’s not vital for an SHD member to fulfil the role of coordinator

[cold bramble]

It's generally always better to assign such tasks to local resources when possible, since their social connections and knowledge tends to be very valuable

[gaunt ice]

Agents tend to make more,you know,bad choices?And I don’t think that they have Coordinator as part of their training

[glass kestrel]

The JTF also tends to make, you know, bad choices.

[gaunt ice]

They have their objectives that are in line with the jtf,and once it falls out of that line.they do it the way they like

[cold bramble]

But also, I don't see any real indication that SHD has coordinators that are meant to be used as field ops, like, is there any example of that? Kelso coordinated (and participated in some missions) in WONY but likely wouldn't have if they had had a Manny equivalent. I.e. it was based on need.

[glass kestrel]

They had Paul Rhodes and Roy Benitez.

and Faye Lau

[gaunt ice]

They do have training atleast

[glass kestrel]

And Division Agents don't?

[sick lantern]

Faye was only fulfilling that role because she took shrapnel to the leg and lost an eye, she would’ve been in the field otherwise

[gaunt ice]

I think that’s more of a talent than actual training

[glass kestrel]

But if you go back and look at the cutscene after reactivating the SHD network, you clearly see her in the field taking down Cleaners.

[gaunt ice]

For coordinating,no

[sick lantern]

seven months later after she’s healed

[glass kestrel]

Yeah, so she's field ready during WoNY

[cold bramble]

But they were not on good terms, they are basically saying "yeah ok you can crash here but you're on your own", which explains why they're not equally involved.

[glass kestrel]

For coordinating, yes. "Other than top-secret covert training exercises agents do not engage in field work until Directive 51 is invoked and the president of the United States activates them. Operations is divided into three branches: Internal Affairs, Strategic, and Tactical."

The strategic branch would absolutely be trained in coordination.

[glass kestrel]

But they assisted in every single mission. Plus, it was only Paul Rhodes who wasn't happy with The Division.

But he still assisted.

[cold bramble]

@glass kestrel They did assist, but not to the same extent (or else Kelso would not have needed to support), but they were both unhappy with Division. Rhodes more, but Benitez too with his ranting about accountability etc.

[sick lantern]

so she’d be better off as a field agent than as a coordinator, which is what i said

[cold bramble]

But also we arrived there from DC, they might not have been able to just drop everything they were already doing for our manhunt, hence best to split the work. Which is the true nature of the agent; adapt and improvise, fill roles with what you have to get the job done.

[glass kestrel]

But she still coordinated, even though she didn't have to. If she felt like her being in the field was more productive, she would've been in the field. Seeing as how she chose to coordinate, she probably thought her efforts were better suited to stay over comms at Haven.

[cold bramble]

But what makes you think she didn't have to? It feels like you make a lot of assumptions and then reason from those as facts.

[glass kestrel]

What makes me think she didn't have to what?

[cold bramble]

She might as well have possessed unique insights, for instance the drone flying skills.

[glass kestrel]

Be in the field?

[cold bramble]

Coordinated, "even though she didn't have to"

[glass kestrel]

Because she was shown in the field during the "SHD Network Reactivation" cutscene. So we know she could've chosen to stay in the field if that's what she wanted.

[cold bramble]

Like, imo it's odd to have opinions on how the work is divided or organised when there are so few details about the actual work carried out.

[glass kestrel]

She did not have to coordinate. She chose to.

[cold bramble]

We still don't know where she would have been most valuable, not to mention she had her own agenda so we don't know what the reasons/if any she gave were.

pretty sure the only reason she was out in the field was because the call to dc left NY understaffed

alot of things wouldn't of happened if it wasnt the case

[glass kestrel]

My point was that she wasn't dealing with her injury anymore. She got past her injury and she was able to be in the field.
Then, when the DC agents showed up, she went back to coordinating.

Even though she proved that she was field ready, and could stay in the field if she wanted to, she still chose not to.

[sick lantern]

so the lady with one eye stopped working in the field, because someone more suited to the job showed up

[cold bramble]

Being field ready or not is not the only criteria for where you're most useful

[glass kestrel]

that's what I mean

[cold bramble]

I don't get it, like I literally don't see what you're objecting to

[glass kestrel]

She decided the place she was most useful was coordinating.

[sick lantern]

you act like her working in the field is an alternative but considering she only has one eye, her working as a coordinator is a smarter choice- no point in risking a valuable asset when someone else can fill her boots

it wasn’t a choice, it was common sense

[glass kestrel]

It was an alternative. She easily showed that her losing an eye didn't make her any less of a threat since she went rogue. If she was just some injured agent with a handicap, the BTSU wouldn't have taken her in.

[gaunt ice]

But they lack experience,as coordinators in the army work at a daily basis while these guys don’t,they blend into society

[glass kestrel]

But they don't just go through training one time, then be done with it until they're activated. They train regularly.

My point is that I don't like that there is a job ready & waiting for some JTF officer to fall into the role of Division Coordinator, and the only reason why he's there, is because he was told to be there by another JTF officer. When it's stated that there are agents who's job is coordinating and making strategic decisions.

[sick lantern]

why shouldn’t there be? there won’t always be an agent available for the role

[glass kestrel]

If he's just a guy who showed good tactical decision-making and awareness, and he just ended up as they guy you talk to, then that's fine. That's what happened with Roy and Paul. They showed that they were experts in what was going on, and they became the "guys in the chair".
But Manny was just told "hey, you, you're going here. You're doing this.", and that was that.

[sick lantern]

So? you want him to refuse orders?

[glass kestrel]

I want that to not be an order. I don't like the fact that "coordinator" is a job that seem to be reserved for JTF

[sick lantern]

it’s a job reserved for whoever can fill it

[glass kestrel]

Where else is there a "Division Coordinator", by that title, in the entire world of Division? And again, he was placed in that job by a JTF commander.

3 books, 2 games, a comic book series, and a web series.
And in all of that, only one dude is handed that title.

[cold bramble]

Its stated he came into the role mainly through attrition.

[gaunt ice]

1.They don’t have field experience
2.What do you expect?They have jobs in the world like doctors,officers,salesman,brewer...
They are suppose to group together every Sunday,playing roleplay?

[glass kestrel]

But again, why does that role exist in the first place? If agents are able to act independantly, they supercede any and all federal employees to include military, why have a job who's sole purpose is to coordinate Division agents? If the agent is allowed to refuse any and all orders from that coordinator, that ruins the point of the job.

[sick lantern]

we’re going round in bloody circles here

[gaunt ice]

Their mission in NYC is to support the jtf

[sick lantern]

the division have a legal and moral duty to support the JTF, the coordinator helps their joint ops go smoothly

[gaunt ice]

And dc is kinda simple,since there’s a foundation to stand on before(the White House)

[gaunt ice]

Thing is,if the mission does not specify that,they don’t give half a fuck

Besides.not every agent has a UAV 24/7

[sick lantern]

“save what remains” and “ensure continuity of government”- helping the JTF is both of those

[cold bramble]

Also remember, this is a fictional universe, made up for entertainment. Not everything is going to make sense.

[cold bramble]

Are you telling me my healing drones aren't suppose to make sense?!? D:

[gaunt ice]

It is unnecessary for them to help the army

They can be just fine you know

[cold bramble]

agents are able to act independantly
This is a capability. A tool you can bring out when necessary.

they supercede any and all federal employees to include military
Yes indeed, in legal mandate and rank

why have a job who's sole purpose is to coordinate Division agents
Because the agents need to know what's going on and where they can be of help

If the agent is allowed to refuse any and all orders from that coordinator, that ruins the point of the job.
Yes but no. Because the agent 1) is already there to help out and is looking to the coordinator for insights/support and 2) there is no reason to think that the agent and the coordinator have an adversal relationship.

Since they've already agreed to help there is no reason to work against the coordinator.

[gaunt ice]

If an Agent is incapable of doing an op,there is no way the jtf can do it better

[glass kestrel]

I'm not arguing that the agents just aren't supposed to support the JTF. I'm arguing that the JTF cannot tell the agents what to do, no matter what their job is or what their rank is. In Broken Dawn, a JTF Officer has to state over and over again that she cannot tell Agent Garcia what to do. However, that is all Manny does. I haven't seen him once give a suggestion to Kelso or the Sheriff. Only orders. I'm asking, how does he have authority to do that when the only authority over active SHD agents is the president?

[sick lantern]

so Division agents should just storm strongholds and house refugees all of their own accord, the JTF’s manpower and resources be damned?

[gaunt ice]

I mean,they totally can

And has the skills to do it

Yeah all the deads be dammed,but then again there’s people who’s actually useful

Like your agent

[cold bramble]

thats what causes them to be hanged up by drug addicts

Manny is stating what needs done to support and stabilize the area. Both Kelso and the Sheriff do what he states because that is why they are there to begin with.. why would they not follow his guidance?

[glass kestrel]

How about when Manny and Kelso are arguing over rescuing the president or securing the BSAV? You clearly do one of these first, and it's not what Kelso suggested.

[cold bramble]

Because thats what the writers chose to do?

You forget this is a fictional story, again it wont always make sense

[sick lantern]

“we’ve got a joint CERA-JTF task force” “JTF observers outside the building” “JTF rounding up any refugees” “[the JTF] will get the turret’s attention” the Division can kick loads of ass but in the wider scale the JTF are necessary to house refugees, keep supply lines up, control territory, etc
without the JTF we’d be in a situation that’s 1000% worse

[sick lantern]

but they can tell us what to do, because that’s how this partnership works

[gaunt ice]

Turrets?EMP
Scouts?Drones
Joint Task Fuck?Lol

[sick lantern]

cooperation with the JTF is part of the mission and the mission comes first

[gaunt ice]

Not everyone is useful,we talked about that before

[sick lantern]

so let’s use the example of Grand Central Station
without the JTF, LMB reinforcements would’ve flooded into the tunnel from the street above, and we probably would’ve been flanked from both sides and killed like the First Wave Agents in Times Square
we’re good, but realistically we’re not that good

[gaunt ice]

I agree that the Joint Task Force are there to help,but WE don’t really need their help

[gaunt ice]

Technically “Against all odds” are our specialty

[cold bramble]

having someone else being shot at while you are cutting through the people shooting is pretty god damn useful

We call that being a damn good decoy lol

[gaunt ice]

So you’re suggesting the use of human dummies?

[cold bramble]

pretty much what they are besides babysitters

[sick lantern]

that’s true, but we should always try to swing the odds in our favour

[gaunt ice]

There are more effective ways to do Grand Central realistically

Like,a sniper post

Support fire

Not fucking human meat shield

[cold bramble]

All in favor or Operation Meat Wagon, say I..

do you remember the places we go into? practically impossible to get posts to do that

may work in NY but not DC

[gaunt ice]

We don’t use human shields there

There are ways to do it though,like smoking the bunker with sleeping gas and flamethrowers

We are industrialized Rambo-s after all

[cold bramble]

While I am all for flamethrowers, it IS outlawed btw and seen just as inhuman as using human shields...

Geneva and their damn rules.. (shakes fist)

[sick lantern]

We are the law

so fuck em

[cold bramble]

https://tenor.com/view/high-five-apir-news-news-report-alright-gif-4874001

[gaunt ice]

Still,it is kinda justified when you take suicidal bombers,firebombing,and massive hammers into account

And torture,terrorism,civilian massacre too,don’t forget

[cold bramble]

I mean who doesnt love a good waterboarding. 😏

[gaunt ice]

Oh you mean the Geneva Suggestion?

[cold bramble]

Pesky suggestions they are

[gaunt ice]

You know,some FBI agents might be spying this conversation and blacklist us

[cold bramble]

being a weeb, pretty sure i'm already on a list

They have my info already due to my previous job. 😅 They dont have to dig too deep on me

[glass kestrel]

Just straight up ditched the conversation lmao

[cold bramble]

It happens alot.

[glass kestrel]

[cold bramble]

😅

[sick lantern]

well in that instance, securing the antivirals is clearly the smarter choice
the people don’t necessarily need the President in the time to come

[gaunt ice]

When,again?

[glass kestrel]

I just went back and watched it, it was a bad example. But it's after you reactivate the local SHD node.

[gaunt ice]

Oh THAT

Well the BSAV is obviously the better choice

[cold bramble]

To be fair, neither could have possibly known that "the thing stolen from Air Force One" was the President instead of BSAV doses/samples/recipes

And then it turns out that the DC JTF/Division Black Tusk need him to access the BSAV samples

[gaunt ice]

I remember this one contaminated area where it was a safe zone,and you at one point give the last surviving member a BSAV sample

Which felt kinda wholesome

[sick lantern]

is it though? seems like it would be better off in the hands of scientists

[cold bramble]

Once you complete the Pentagon plot, the recovered perfusion reactor allows the JTF to reproduce it

[gaunt ice]

We do have a lot of them

So giving it to her gives hope

[cold bramble]

R&D for the BSAV is complete, what isn't done is human testing for reliability and mass production... because there sure don't seem to be a lot of spare manpower and resources for running a pre-Green Poison style medical trial

[sick lantern]

seems like an empty gesture considering we should be focusing our efforts on large scale rollouts but ok

[gaunt ice]

They feel safer knowing that we’ve made progress,and a cure is being developed

It’s kinda the same reason why we don’t do covert ops or being vague to the public:to give hope

[sick lantern]

one vial of a cure, that’s going to spread mostly by word of mouth around the DC area, i understand the point but it seems like a wasted effort

but if we have some magical mystery bullshit reactor to make more i guess it doesn’t hurt

[gaunt ice]

Words aren’t really as reliable as proof

“Hey I did the homework but my dog ate it”

Unless you have the video of him eating your homework,you’re in deep fried shit

[sick lantern]

well that’s my point, there’s one sample, ultimately not a lot of people are going to know

[gaunt ice]

The words will spread,and it’s gonna be more reliable with the sample

Just hope Brron Keener doesn’t get a hold of that

And Crron Keener won’t go nuts

[sick lantern]

very funny

[gaunt ice]

We don’t have smoke bombs for some reason?

And why are we limited in terms of throwables?NY branch can use 6 nades at a time

The LMB got smokes

And DC has like,1,sometimes 2 with a spec

[sick lantern]

LMB use willy pete, i think Hunters are the only ones who use average smokes

which is very odd

[gaunt ice]

Willy pete?what’s that?

[cold bramble]

White phosphorous

[sick lantern]

Willy Pete= WP= White Phosphorous

[cold bramble]

Generates a ton of smoke but also is pretty toxic to inhale. And burns any lifeforms that contact it really badly

[gaunt ice]

The time when they breach the door of Police Academy to greet my turret?

[sick lantern]

their captains (double chevron archetypes) use them

[cold bramble]

Laws of armed conflict take offense to that last part, and ostensibly you aren't supposed to throw in WP smokes to force someone to leave where they're hiding

Don't True Sons elite grenadiers also use WPs?

[gaunt ice]

I think that’s just standard explosive rounds

[cold bramble]

Or at least those with the firestarter grenades instead of shock, EMP or regular explosive grenades

[gaunt ice]

Since they were ex-military,and they don’t have prosperous

The worst thing I can imagine them doing is DC62 grenades

[sick lantern]

the US military actually does have WP, cus it’s only a war crime if you actually hit someone with it

it’s allowed to be used for area denial and whatnot

[gaunt ice]

But why would they need it in a city?

[cold bramble]

Generates a ton of smoke to mark... places

[gaunt ice]

They don’t,so it does not make sense that True Sons has them

[gaunt ice]

Still,in the middle of a densely populated area

Nope

[cold bramble]

A lot of it is game logic anyway, where do the Outcasts find so many incendiaries for their LMG guys anyway?

[gaunt ice]

Gas stations?

[cold bramble]

Why does a Hyena bounty have a SHD Oxidizer? And so on

[gaunt ice]

They killed other Agents before

It is stated in the loading screen before that high-value targets have killed multiple Agents before

[sick lantern]

those agents must be lil bitches damn

[gaunt ice]

I mean,95% of them are just incompetent

“No one is born cool,except of course...”

Noble Squad

[sick lantern]

i hope we see some agents in the next game beside the players who are competent, not rogue and still alive

[plain niche]

Since the final manhunt missions for each season are unlockable, will I get all their skill variants right away after completion??

[gaunt ice]

Yes

[plain niche]

I feel like from a efficiency standpoint, getting the skills now is better, but for the sake of story and not breaking the flow of the manhunts, waiting until the prime target is avaliable might be better

[gaunt ice]

Includes:EMP Sticky,Heal Traps,Bleed Traps,and Achilles Pulse

[gaunt ice]

A random policeman or a civilian who became an Agent because some guy passed his watch down to him?

Sounds cool

[sick lantern]

reminds me of April Kelleher, what happened to her in Div 2 anyway

[cold bramble]

The full survival guide shows that April was briefly mistaken for a First Wave agent after pulling Doug Sutton's gear off him

[sick lantern]

the book?

[cold bramble]

Yes

[sick lantern]

i have it but haven’t read it yet

[cold bramble]

By "briefly", some rogues also nearly mistook her for one they were looking to turn, before she threw the ISAC brick some distance away from her hiding place

[sick lantern]

totally haven’t been putting it off for months

[gaunt ice]

Book review:0/10,no Alexa ISAC

[cold bramble]

Review: Oh shit, there's an actual global pandemic on the news/10

I haven't managed to track down copies of Broken Dawn or Extremis Malis

But then they aren't as reliant on the physical experience as the survival guide is

[gaunt ice]

How about a game with a Main Character that has an interesting personality?

[sick lantern]

preposterous

[gaunt ice]

Or maybe just a personality?

[sick lantern]

like i’ve said, that’s spin-off material

[cold bramble]

SOTG 2030: "our data analysis shows that 95% of you chose to pull out your gun and start shooting instead of trying to get the True Sons chemist to submit via yelling. Yes, we get that he deserved it. But you guys need to chill"

"Especially the one that repeatedly flamethrowered him. You know who you are"

[gaunt ice]

Still,is it that hard?

To make it a game story?

Dang,I’ve been using “Still” a lot today

Like,5 times

[gaunt ice]

“Hey!Its not our fault you guys don’t give us tasers”

[cold bramble]

100x harder for writers because they'd need to make a background, reason for being there, who they are, why are they special etc.

blank slate characters can be just thrown into something happening

pretty good example is rey from star wars (for a blank slate character, atleast till rise of skywalker)

Well, Division 1/2 chars are already special for being SHD agents

[cold bramble]

part of a blanket term "2nd wave"

Background: Have fun guys
Reason for being there: Div 1 - you are a Second Wave agent
Div 2 - Agent Sanders says you go to DC to figure out what happened. And lucky you, you're the first to actually make it there

see it's bad but it's easy writing

Which means that the iconic trio was mostly doing photo ops after your agent cleaned house. Still, I doubt someone bashing True Sons to death with a Crusader shield would be especially photogenic

"bad for the public impression of The Division" might be an understatement

[gaunt ice]

I mean,you guys all watched Agent Origins right?

It’s cheap,it’s easy and it’s decent

[sick lantern]

it’s on Youtube

for free

[gaunt ice]

Yeah,so they obviously can do more with 30 dollars per player

[sick lantern]

but, there’s a lot of things I could watch or read or play but don’t 🙃

[round sinew]

Just make an agent based on Duke Nukem

Keener: "I'm going to use the Eclipse virus to finish what Amherst started. A full reset!"
Agent Nukem: "Hm. Blow it out your ass."
proceeds to kill Keener with a Deagle

[gaunt ice]

More like stuff a rocket up his ass

[vivid inlet]

So you're telling me that Keener's farts are just eclipse missiles exploding and releasing the eclipse virus

[gaunt ice]

I meant Agent Nukem just literally shoots a RPG up in his ass and blows Keener up

[cold bramble]

TIL there is more than one way to spoil a game...

[cold bramble]

Is there an undo button for this sentence?

[vivid inlet]

There is not

[round sinew]

I wake up every day mad knowing I still have to be in this server.

[cold bramble]

git rekt

[drifting lotus]

Do you really though

[round sinew]

Yes

[vivid inlet]

No

[sick lantern]

so the game over screen in Div 2’s hardcore mode reuses the LMB’s logo which made me realise

the SHD’s logo is a bird and the LMB’s logo is a dead bird, clever little bit of symbolism

[cold bramble]

And hunters have a fox logo and foxes eat birds..

I think. >_<

[sick lantern]

that’s true, good catch

that never occurred to me either

[gaunt ice]

I like to think it emphasizes on how important you are to SHD

Like.everything is fucked up until you arrived,so without you things would be back to square zero

[sleek plover]

damn i hate lmb

[gaunt ice]

Topic:LMB wanted revenge AND security for the people

It’s just not in the right way

Like Injustice Superman

Bliss and his battalion are abandoned in NYC,just like the first wave

And,despite not being the best faction to rule over New York,they are the second most capable besides SHD

And they have all of the good gears,so they can effectively destroy the other factions

You can sympathize with Outcast,a bunch of lunatics that wants to kill everyone because they aren’t there to help them,yet not with professional soldiers who were betrayed,and abandoned by the people they trusted their lifes in?

@sleek plover

[stoic ridge]

Im watching a short film on Youtube made by ubisoft called "Ghost recon Alpha" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-wAzlqzXH0 suddenly a familiar name popped up https://imgur.com/a/Nflukor#zLZ41Oh "Sokolov"

So what do you think of this powerful family called "Sokolov"

[cold bramble]

it's a name that's used alot

[sick lantern]

Shagohod?

[gaunt ice]

Doesn’t seem likely,since Splinter Cell is connected to Siege,but Siege and TD doesn’t cross lines

[sick lantern]

it could be some prequel/setup for something in TD but TD is Ubisoft’s neglected child so that’s unlikely

[vivid inlet]

Damn I love LMB

[stoic ridge]

LMB = Love Me Babe

[cold bramble]

Yeah there's not exactly a shortage of people named Sokolov. Rich and influential business dynasties with a Sokolov surname on the other hand...

(oh and by the way, the Kard Custom's flavor text is a Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter reference, it's credited to Kozak of all people)

[warm wind]

Last Man Battalion

[sick lantern]

Little Monkey Bastards

[cold bramble]

Lost My Batteries

[gaunt ice]

LigMa Ballz

[warm wind]

Old and dead meme

[gaunt ice]

😦

[warm wind]

True

[warm wind]

With Ak-47’s?

[gaunt ice]

monke

just monke

[warm wind]

I see

[gaunt ice]

the last time i saw the name Kai,its an AI who stabbed an old man to death

[cold bramble]

I can't remember the details from TD1, but what exactly did LMB do against the general civilian population? I.e. not JTF, SHD or any of the other weaponized factions.

[sick lantern]

enforce curfew, require registrations and shit, and kill anyone who opposed them or breaks their arbitrary rules

[cold bramble]

Oh yeah the curfew, it's coming back to me now

[sick lantern]

in one of their echos, someone is “killed by LMB officer over uniform dispute” which seems like a joke but does show that they are absolutely power tripping

a prison cell of about six average criminals (not Rikers, looters and thieves and whatnot) got executed by way of frag grenade

[stoic ridge]

LMB are a buncha of old veterans recruited by the top 1% rich ppl of wall street to protect their assets. its all about the money

[sick lantern]

no they went rogue, it’s about power

[cold bramble]

Yeah I skimmed through the wiki to refresh my memory, but it mentioned very little about the relationships to civilians (or I just missed it), just to other factions/groups

[sick lantern]

they’ve abandoned the contract

[gaunt ice]

they were abandoned there and kinda just go full Injustice

[gaunt ice]

the contract was still a go until they were left behind

[sick lantern]

if by “abandoned” you mean “stuck in quarantine” then yea

[cold bramble]

Yeah they were "abandoned"/left behind when JTF quarantined the zone and then decided to go reclaim the city instead after a couple of days of fighting with the local gangs

[sick lantern]

I wonder if the guy in the prison cell has a JTF uniform or not, i’m pretty sure he’s just a cop which makes the timeline a bit more interesting

[cold bramble]

They were already having tensions with the JTF prior to the order to bail on the Dark Zone if I'm not mistaken

[sick lantern]

yea they were clearly scaring the JTF and getting too big for their boots- when there was still enough people alive for crowds to form, they were marching through the streets with loudspeakers

[gaunt ice]

jtf were a bunch of pussies after all

[stoic ridge]

LMB are private contractors right?

[sick lantern]

yes

however the ones we fight in game have gone rogue from the wider organisation

that is to say, they are acting of their own accord and if there’s anyone left of the wider organisation , they’re not necessarily fascist murderers

the ones in game are “flagged as traitors in LMB database”

[cold bramble]

If the CO has clearly gone off the reservation, the people deciding to not be fascist murderers would be the ones going rogue

If they're named the Battalion due to being... battalion sized, Bliss is the correct rank for commanding them, although one wonders if his career really topped out at that rank

[sick lantern]

a battalion is “300-1000” soldiers which makes sense with the numbers we see in game, but we know that there are also some members of the company outside NYC

[gaunt ice]

well yeah,he served a couple tours in Syria,Afghanistan,Iraq before iirc

[sick lantern]

if LMB captains were associating with crazy African warlords even before the outbreak, it makes sense that they’d go into full fascist takeover mode quite fast

cus of what we’ve been shown i can’t imagine that the company as a whole is exactly on the up and up

[round sinew]

It should be noted that in lore, when the company LMB said they had no knowledge of and disavowed Bliss's actions in NYC, it's implied that nobody really believed them and they were kind of lying.

But then again.

It's Division lore.

[sick lantern]

that makes sense, but when was this said cus ive not heard of that

(i’m guessing in Div 2?)

[round sinew]

Some loading screen tidbit or something somewhere, I don't remember. I just parrot dumb shit I remember.

[sick lantern]

(or one of the books)

[round sinew]

Not like it matters, we'll never really get a "where are they now" of any LMB employees outside of NYC

[sick lantern]

oh really? i’ve never seen that one in Div 1 and i feel like i’ve seen them all a thousand times

[round sinew]

Sort of like the totally not True Sons that were in Philadelphia. Or how Cleveland and the Great Lakes region are essentially stable.

None of this lore will ever be mentioned again.

[sick lantern]

haha yea

[cold bramble]

It feels like something they could bring up in new content though, to further connect DC/Black Tusk and NYC content, i.e. named White Tusks that are peripheral LMB characters from TD1. (Maybe there are named white tusks already? I've never played legendary and other content where they can be found.)

[round sinew]

White Tusk isn't canon.

[cold bramble]

Ah

[round sinew]

So, your idea isn't bad. But they would need to acknowledge that first.

Hell, Hunters weren't technically "canon" until the Schaeffer manhunt.

[cold bramble]

Mm cool, is the more general LMB-remnants-joining-Black-Tusk lore canon?

[round sinew]

Ye

[sick lantern]

that’s DEFINITELY not true

[round sinew]

Find me one canonical reference. I will admit I'm wrong.

[sick lantern]

you make a good point, they should be mentioned more, but you mean to tell me that Survival isn’t canon?

[cold bramble]

Didn't even think of Survival, only played it a handful of times, but was pondering UG ambushes

[round sinew]

See, personally, I would call Survival canon.

But iirc, it's not explicitly canon.

[cold bramble]

On a side note I personally think it's kind of cool/nice that they showed restraint with hunters in TD2, i.e. didn't try to make them into a fully fledged faction. They could so easily be ruined by over-documenting or introducing inconsistencies to previous behaviour/mystery.

[round sinew]

And anything in UG outside of like the first missions and the audio logs aren't canon because it's RNG.

[sick lantern]

weren’t the Antivirals used to create the BSAV

[sick lantern]

well that’s not really true, we’re just rooting out the factions from the tunnels

[round sinew]

Right, but specific encounters aren't canon.

Sort of like the rogue agent HVTs.

They're just content, but not canon.

[cold bramble]

I'm thinking the encounters are fixed, it's just the order you get to experience them that is RNG, kind of. Like a collage of different memories/experiences/tours of the tunnels. But I don't know how canon is defined tbh.

[round sinew]

I like that interpretation

Oh, Kirby. I am wrong.

Agent Edwards Support is first explicit Hunter canon.

[sick lantern]

we don’t talk about that

[round sinew]

Lol

Iirc, both the sets of Hunter puzzles aren't technically canon. At least no more canon than the Survival Hunter or the Hunters at Floor 100.

I'm trying to class things into Canon, Probably Canon, Maybe Canon, and Not Canon.

[sick lantern]

I think Survival Hunters have to be canon, Survival is canon and they’re integral to how Survival plays out

if Hunters weren’t there, a lot more agents would’ve made it out alive

[round sinew]

It's hard to really decide what's canon outside of explicit mentions by other NPCs, because there's so much content that is obviously not canon.