Also don't complain since that mission contains the single greatest voice line in the entire game
#division-universe
proper salmon
@static bay I love Heads and Tails for their radio lines and Bardons reactions
static bay
YES finally a man of culture
round sinew
I love Bardon losing his shit after you kill his new team.
Literally a man who's fed up.
glad magnet
Season 3 is Baron Schaeffer
@cold bramble How is the Manhunt about Bardon? Hes Black Tusk, not rogue. It doesnt make much sense, he just works with Faye.
lone orchid
Anyone else heard rumors that Massive is building a procedural generated mission (Skyscraper) in line with Underground of Div 1? If so, I'm all in. I see less and less players on XB1/Asia every day. Hope that changes. I get 200+ pings on North American servers so thats a no go for finding peeps there unfortunately.
lone orchid
Wish Massive would stop all the focus on gear and focus on missions, seasons are just more bounty hunts which we can already do, or some strange shock you back. Gear is fine, but we have to play the exact same missions over and over and over again.
low mural
Not too sure when it all come tho
lone orchid
it gave Div 1 new life. it will be fun when they do add it.
Div 1 was almost completely dead, and then they suddenly added Underground and Gear Sets and that changed everything. Great fun. Loved those shotgun hunters who would always come gunning for you no matter what.
Is the pentagon really as public as it’s shown in d2? I always thought it was authoritized personnel only.
@novel thicket They have public tours, same as the White House.
round sinew
I'd be down for an Underground or whatever that last update was that added the hard area was in D1.
I'd be good for a Survival mode, too.
PVP matches we already have, and they added raids, so we don't need the 4-man ops from D1, either.
But it's looking like for now, we just have Season 2 shit to deal with, which is really... What, the new raid and the Hornet manhunt?
static bay
I'd be down for an Underground or whatever that last update was that added the hard area was in D1.
@round sinew hecc yeah
to be fair Skyscraper is gonna come out which will be somewhat like Underground. Sometimes in who knows when
steel radish
A survival concept wouldn’t really work unless they bring the winter back
And plus, the DZs are no longer placed into the centre and are separated out into 3 parts
civic olive
Maybe in skyscraper btsu have got the antivirals back and are holding them on the roof for extrication and you have a car rain amount of time before a helicopter arrives
novel thicket
do emp jammers disturb the the technician rocket launcher since theyre guided by isac?
cold bramble
@civic olive I hope that they don't recycle an idea without at least giving us some playable reason the anti-virials are no longer under our control. Maybe have Black Tusk or a group of rogues raid the white house using Keener's new dollar flu. As a player, we'd be able to fight them off, but ultimately lose the anti-virials. Also, it would need to make sense as to why Black Tusk could get the anti-virials to the top of a skyscraper, but couldn't get them on a helicopter before that point.
On the other hand, it may be nice if they didn't just take something we already achieved in order to create conflict since there are so many other avenues. I'd like to see the skyscraper content coincide with an advancement in the game time line, perhaps to the fall season. The skyscraper content would then release the next bit of story that has us dealing with some element of us kicking out the factions of NYC and DC (including tidal basin) as well as letting Keener activate the rogue agent network. Maybe let me kill Ellis at the top of the skyscraper.
Storming the tower of a mad warlord or Black Tusk Raid / Dredd style doesn't feel like it would be all that interesting long term (though it does fit the loot shooter genre very well, so it wouldn't be really a bad thing) unless each section had you completing different tasks such as ground floor assault, mid hostage rescue / intel collection / CP capture, ect... However, I really hope they stay away from Keenly college style puzzles as I just don't feel like Massive executes these kinds of challenges well.
static bay
Guys I heard a joke just now about how the whole of New York should have DZ exclusives since New York is in the DZ, can someone explain it to me. I think I get the joke but I want to be sure
cold bramble
Question about the story. I apologize if these has been endlessly discussed.
If we as SHD agents are suppose to ensure the continuity of government in the case of a catastrophic emergency are we not actively fighting against our prime directive? To elaborate, the President appears to have complete authority (especially after directive 51), so wouldn't defying the president and his decision to align with Black tusk make us rogue agents? Or are we saying the president is illegitimate (especially how he got the presidency) and therefor we are still on mission?
spiral turtle
Question about the story. I apologize if these has been endlessly discussed.
If we as SHD agents are suppose to ensure the continuity of government in the case of a catastrophic emergency are we not actively fighting against our prime directive? To elaborate, the President appears to have complete authority (especially after directive 51), so wouldn't defying the president and his decision to align with Black tusk make us rogue agents? Or are we saying the president is illegitimate (especially how he got the presidency) and therefor we are still on mission?
@cold bramble from what I know, once Ellis aligned with Black Tusk, he ordered them to kill off the Division and remove them from their current position (Treason). Also I don’t believe Ellis really had any intention of continuing with Directive 51 (Activation of the Division) and was really in it for the personal gain, hence why he switched sides and aligned with BT so quickly.
Ellis was shot down while on Air Force One and and extracted by the Hyenas while the True Sons Extracted the briefcase (I forget what’s in it, I believe the antivirals). Once the Division took back the capitol from true sons, the black tusk moved in. And set up Tidal Basin. While the Division was still a bit occupied, this is when Ellis left and sides with Black Tusk and handed over the Anti-Virals ate the Gatehouse Facility and then taken to Tidal Basin (which explains what we had to do during that mission)
A lot of this is explained in the black tusk ECHOs and Phone Recordings
novel thicket
it gets even weirder when black tusk are told to back off the division.
cold bramble
@spiral turtle I hadn't realized / missed that Ellis order the Division wiped out. I knew he was mad about the prior president using them to " build gardens" when they are warriors that could take things by force. So I assumed he'd just want them as another Black Tusk like unit for whatever society he wants to be the figure head of. Though I admit, I am still missing 2 very hard to find comms and 3 echos from DC still so I don't have the complete story yet.
You'd think being the president and having complete authority over SHD agents that he could have ended directive 51 under some false pretense and then joined Black Tusk / what ever shadow power is yet to be revealed. Could have gone much more smoothly for him lol.
spiral turtle
@cold bramble there is a map available that lists every collectible in the game on both maps
cold bramble
@spiral turtle Wow! Thank you for this! I am not sure why I never thought to look for a map lol.
spiral turtle
Np
static bay
Maple coming to #division-universe because my joke was that bad
@steel radish It's not I just don't get it fully
I wish to learn
static bay
I just realised how obvious it is that the Division agents in Federal Emergency Bunker were killed by Hunters, all their watches were stolen
low mural
Ok
drifting lotus
isn't that implying that no one else takes watches from division agents?
static bay
ahahahahaha
I mean I've died to every DC faction and none of them have stolen my watch
steel radish
Division agent watch RGB
limpid cape
well the game dialogue suggests that a number of people take division watches
like one example i randomly remember was the comms colletable between judge and theo parnell where judge doesnt care about theo parnell and is just there because dragov told them to be there
and he hopes some "division fuckhead" comes after Theo so he can get another souvenir, which is hinting at him collecting watches
static bay
Oooooooh that's interesting, I forgot that
spiral turtle
But then again that could just be specific to a certain group of rikers and the rikers certainly aren’t in DC
limpid cape
Yeah but i just gabe one example of a person collecting watches, like i seriously doubt that there isnt anyone else that doesnt like killing division agents and taking their watch
and coyote takes the watch off of the agent that she kill at jefferson
thats what she says in the dialoge
novel thicket
Coyote did it just to taunt the division
limpid cape
Wellllll you could say that, but hey if i killed a division agent i would def take their watch as a trophy
lament bramble
if someone were to take an agent's watch, is it supposed to work normally? (well, at least the comms like that one coyote used)
limpid cape
yeah coyote only got to use comms because she had only just got it from the agent's body
novel thicket
She never took off the watch to use it, it was still on espinozas body. She was just using it with it on espinozas wrist
limpid cape
idk if theres any proof that she didnt take it or take it
it sorta infers that she did take it, because she talks about how she now got such a nice watch from espinoza
novel thicket
Check Espinoza’s body after he dies on the table, I’m pretty sure he still has his watch.
round sinew
That could be a modeling oversight.
steel radish
I think we’re just looking too far into it
limpid cape
yeah fr prob a modeling thing
But hey, idk maybe it wasnt a oversight
but i still assume that people collect watches for fun
round sinew
This is such a minor detail lol.
Hunters collect watches for fun.
And we know the Player Character takes Keener's watch and the watches of Keener's team.
limpid cape
I know about taking keeners watch, but his teams watches?
i dont think you take like any of their watches
novel thicket
Weren’t the ones in the bunker division engineers?
limpid cape
yeah, but still we can assume that they had pretty good combat training
final raven
are there any audio files for invaded pentagon or coney island missions or will those missions never be invaded?
novel thicket
They never will be invaded
My guess would be that’s after Bardon was told to back off
limpid cape
but how would they be invaded, black tusk is the original combatants of the missiosn
limpid cape
are the*
round sinew
I mean. The Camp has an invaded version.
static bay
but how would they be invaded, black tusk is the original combatants of the missiosn
@limpid cape Camp has an invaded mission after they lost the place to the JTF and tried to retake it. The same thing could very well happen for the Pentagon
If they try to retake the Pentagon, it would get Invaded too right?
round sinew
Yes.
But I can't think of a reason they'd need to go back there again.
Seems that currently in the lore, BTSU is licking their wounds after all their losses.
glad spruce
So... after doing the Manhunt for Termite and Luna after my break, Luna's story beats from the audio log is rather interesting IMO.
It does explain how the Rogue agents got word of The Division rescue op on Tchernenko.
I'm keeping my eyes on the remaining audio logs once Huntsman, Titan, and Hornet are available
static bay
Seems that currently in the lore, BTSU is licking their wounds after all their losses.
@round sinew It's because the place is a "high priority location". This is the same reason why the White Tusk, who are said to be a special unit who are tasked with holding "high priority locations", take over the strongholds and not literally any other building. It's because some unexplained feature of the place makes it valuable just to have.
Unfortunately what feature is never stated.
This is the same reason Control Points exist. They are "high value locations" or something like that, according to the "attacking control point" brief. Just like with Camp White Oak and the Strongholds, Control Points are valuable for some unstated reason.
round sinew
My guess is because they're strategic locations.
static bay
Perhaps it's just because Camp White Oak is isolated and from attacks from the hostile factions. It's also quite large. Those factors alone would make me want to go back there tbh, it's a great location to set up a secondary operating base.
static bay
That too. That's what makes Control Points such as Overgrowth and Ivy Tunnel valuable. One has long sight lines and the other is a giant choke point. These are locations that are easy to hold and keep from hostile factions.
White Tusk is the name for the enemies on Legendary. They're another subdivision of the Black Tusk. While the Black Tusk Special Unit specialises in covert, in-and-out operations, the White Tusk specialises in more.....excessive operations.
Well, they also went back to clean up their mess.
@round sinew Yeah that too I forgot, they left a lot of stuff behind when extracting Ellis like Manny said. Plus, Schaeffer said that he was "rebuilding" his unit. Perhaps lots of their gear and intel is still in that camp
round sinew
Schaeffer tried to rebuild his unit.
I'd say as of now, with Schaeffer losing 2 teams of lieutenants, and the setbacks Black Tusk has faced elsewhere at the airport, Coney Island, the Pentagon, and in NYC, they have to be rethinking their plans.
static bay
That or they have to think of firing Schaeffer.
round sinew
That's probably why they haven't been around to deal with Jupiter or Hornet's teams, and why they didn't feel a need to deal with the True Sons at the forge.
static bay
I'm surprised they haven't done it yet. I mean sure it's not his fault that he's an unlucky bastard, but would the superiors really be smart enough to realise that
Actually yeah, it's weird that they aren't making any attempt whatsoever to capture the Forge......
round sinew
I can see why they'd ignore Jupiter, since her goals were really in line with theirs. BTSU doesn't seem gung go on spreading the dollar bug or eclipse.
But Hornet is literally trying to finish what Keener started, and I don't think it benefits anyone to have the eclipse virus spread.
As for the forge, I'm chalking that up to BT simply being knocked on their heels to the point they can't deal with them or can't risk the resources. Besides, they probably decided if the True Sons wanna go psycho and blow up the White House and destroy SHD and the JTF, it might make BTSU's job easier.
On that note, why was Jupiter doing the opposite of what Keener and Hornet were doing?
wispy copper
My guess is that not all rogues knew the full extent of Keener’s plans and wouldn’t have joined up if they did but I’m not sure
Did Kajika, Conley, Parnell, and Dragov know his full plan?
steel radish
No
He says something along the lines of the worker bees can’t see the bigger picture or they stop working
round sinew
Tbh if it weren't for Jupiter's team doing heinous traitor shit prior to the Manhunt, they would've made good allies.
Hornet's team needs to go, though.
wispy copper
Hornet’s team feels a lot like Keener while I thought Jupiter’s team had a lot of our same goals but just went about them differently and figured that the ends justify the means
limpid cape
but
steel radish
And then the other was a recruiter that wants to be keeners successor
limpid cape
yeah nvmd ur right
steel radish
Like how does the SHD even hire these guys
That the recruiter themselves went rogue
limpid cape
ehhh
static bay
yeah nvmd ur right
@limpid cape hahahhaahahahaha
limpid cape
shhhh
static bay
If you wanna talk about tacky, remember that Keener's plan was to launch a missile loaded with a virus.
limpid cape
hey
static bay
That was his bIG pIcTuRe
limpid cape
legit i had a bug where his invulnerability drone would go invisibl nad couldnt be destoryed
steel radish
I’m so glad I never ran into this problem
steel radish
Wish I could have the same luck getting exotics
limpid cape
but thats not tacky tho
steel radish
:/
limpid cape
hey legit like the same plot from the rock
Well nvmd im stupid
keener wants to wipe out humanity, but the antagonists in the rock wanted money for soldiers that died in black ops
i like bardon schaffers voice
static bay
I mean it's triple tacky. Firstly, he wants to push the reset button on humanity with a virus, without any care for the long term consequences. Secondly, he's using the same thing that decimated humanity in the first place- a virus. Thirdly, he's delivering it using a missile. Wyvern wants her idea back.
static bay
I'm pretty sure it was a new virus entirely but one has to wish he would pick a different doomsday method from the one that was already used
round sinew
Iirc, Eclipse was supposed to be like a perfected Dollar Bug Flu.
I gotta be honest though, chasing Keener for like 5 years irl and like 6 months in the game universe, only for his big plan to be a biological weapon bomb seems kinda... Awfully disappointing.
wispy copper
Wasn’t the dollar flu designed to be asymptomatic in 10% or so of people? I’m assuming the eclipse virus was designed without this
round sinew
Either way. Keener's plan was shit.
steel radish
I kinda wish his plan and it’s build up was more focused around the rogue network
That would’ve been far more interesting
round sinew
Yes.
Some form of long term goal that only a villainous mastermind could've done. Something equal in treachery and planning to the BTSU.
But instead we get "hee hoo virus printer go brrr"
What kinda 1960s comic book GI Joe cartoon villain bullshit is that.
It's like the end of Blindspot.
Woman infiltrates and takes over the FBI and clears a path to get her elected president, only for her ultimate goal to be revealed as a massive chemical terrorist attack in the country. Why?
steel radish
The rogue network is barely even built upon after WoNY
Not even ANNA talking when going rogue in DZ
lament bramble
maybe cus it's an expansion content and might contain spoiler to those who doesn't own it lul
I've read somewhere that there will be a change to armors so that it doesn't really make much difference between red, blue, and yellow?
if i'm not mistaken
low mural
@lament bramble you’re mistaken. The change you read is probably about gear mods being universal which means there’s no blue red or yellow gear mods anymore
static bay
You know what would be awesome? If all the exotics showed their faction on the red beam instead of all illogically showing the SHD logo.
The Tardigrade would show the True Sons logo, the Chatterbox would show the Hyenas logo, even the Chameleon would have DARPA's logo. That way when an Eagle Bearer drops it would be one of two exotics to have the SHD logo, along with Sawyer's Kneepads, making it more meaningful
Lady Death could have an American flag, the Regulus would have the Rogue logo (same for the Imperial Dynasty)
lament bramble
@lament bramble you’re mistaken. The change you read is probably about gear mods being universal which means there’s no blue red or yellow gear mods anymore
@low mural alright, thanks
low mural
👍
crude yarrow
low mural
@crude yarrow yes look what I wrote above
low mural
@crude yarrow no it does not, read more carefully
I said that mods are gonna be universal
Not all gear has mods
real heart
Yo bend3n do you want to help level up
real heart
It’s okay
lone orchid
Guys I heard a joke just now about how the whole of New York should have DZ exclusives since New York is in the DZ, can someone explain it to me. I think I get the joke but I want to be sure
@static bay Div 1 is ALL NEW YORK CITY with its own DZ's. So someone is sending you down an inside joke about WoNY most likely.
karmic lotus
Where was this thing about mods posted? 🤔
static bay
Just wanted to say that I am very happy about the devs fixing Dragov's voice lines (These bastards have murdered your sisters, imprisoned your brothers...) just before the boss fight so that they don't both play at the same time. That is all.
static bay
Yeah you would just assume the audio quality was horrid but since I have subtitles on I can see that James Dragov is speaking twice at the same time
took me a while to figure out what was going on, too
limpid cape
oh fuck it thought it was sorta like a scho
echo*
i put the game audio really low and just listen to music when i was grinding for bk
vague crane
@static bay I'm just glad the audio doesn't blow out my headset speakers anymore. The reverb was insane!
stable forge
U can't end Iron Horse. Don't try.
limpid cape
still not working>
cold bramble
@limpid cape were you guys tryna farm last boss
steady dagger
limpid cape
which boss u talking about?
static bay
Anyone know where the snitch is today?
@steady dagger Use the pinned comment on Build Advice. It has a guide to finding the Snitch's spawns
lone orchid
Anyone know where the snitch is today?
@steady dagger https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi_J8vneyBA Patrick Wolf always updates his position weekly.
tepid isle
mender mine op
static bay
I'm trying to link the Mantis exotic sniper to a faction or a person. Does anyone know who Sid "Maneater" Madison is?
novel thicket
I thought it was a true son
static bay
who was a true son? Sid?
spiral turtle
He wouldn’t be a true son of the callsign is anything to go by
Each faction has there own style
True Sons have a military rank and then last name (Ex. “Sergeant Mesa”), Hyenas are usually an object or a general noun (Ex. “Diesel”, “Mayhem”, etc.), Outcasts are cult sounding (Ex. “The Vehement”), Rikers are similar to hyenas (Ex. “Judge”, “Duchess”), Cleaners are simply just the last name (Ex. “Bates”), and Black Tusk is First name, callsign, last name (Ex. Andrew “Negative” Ramos) @static bay @novel thicket
static bay
ooooooooh that makes sense. Do you think Sid could be a Riker, perhaps?
spiral turtle
If it follows the format I laid out, he would be Black Tusk
spiral turtle
Which also makes sense considering that the mantis is a relatively high tech sniper rifle
The amount of Sergeant Mesa’s and Sergeant Eduardo’s that I have killed while clearing True Sons CP4s is insane
static bay
ahahahahahaha they just keep coming
spiral turtle
A nit picky thing for me tho is that all true sons named enemies that are not an open world boss are all Sergeants
I just wish they were different ranks for the sake of variety
But it’s such a minute detail it doesn’t really matter
I once had a bounty with three True Sons of the same name
static bay
wait wtf, the game doesn't check for that??
spiral turtle
Nope
It’s purely a random name generator
Albeit a very small name pool which is a bit annoying at times
Same names just but usually different archetypes
I’ve also noticed a severe lack of tanks being the leader of a CP4
I mean they almost never are
@static bay also there’s 7 exceptions from the true sons named enemies system that I mentioned earlier
Captain Kendra Nelson (Capitol Building), Master Sergeant Steve “Junior” Quiroz (Space Admin HQ), and Lieutenant “Doc” Simpson (Capitol Building)
Private Trevor Hanson (Lincoln Memorial), Private Jeremiah Ramos (Lincoln Memorial), Staff Sergeant Carl Wade (ViewPoint Museum), and General Antwon Ridgeway (Capitol Building)
The only other area that has variety in ranks besides the missions is the DZ Landmarks from what I can tell in the wiki
I could be a bit off with my info cause this is mostly based off my encounters so take it with a grain of salt
static bay
ah so all the Named True Sons bosses are actually the exceptions and not the rules?
static bay
Alright need more intel. Who is Eva Acosta? I've heard her recordings, but I can't figure out what faction or group she is associated with.
cold bramble
Isn’t Acosta from manhattan? Remember picking up comms about a female and her trip in NY during the time of green poison
In division 1. That one subway to the right of grand central
bright snow
There were sound logs about her voyage.
spiral turtle
ah so all the Named True Sons bosses are actually the exceptions and not the rules?
@static bay correct, my guess is it’s for story purposes because they drop an intel log about them the first time you kill them. Under collectibles. Most (if not all) mission bosses and then the 13 snitch cards
Bounties and CP4 named enemies are pulled from the random name pool
Although according to the wiki, some bounty targets will always be the same archetype and name
Also Acosta is a scavenger, similar style (I would assume), but not relation to the Underground or Ambusher factions
astral gate
Hello guys, I'm at Liberty Island fighting the final boss and I think it's bugged: he has the "shield drone" that makes him invincible
low mural
Yes, it’s been like that for ages now
astral gate
And when I destroy the drone, the icon is still above his head and he's still invincible
low mural
Try restarting the mission
astral gate
Any solutions?
low mural
It’s the only way
astral gate
Damn it...
Impressive that a bug that big is in the game for so long
I mean, it's "JUST" the final boss of the game ^^'
limpid cape
@astral gate equip a jammer and use the jammer pulse
then it destroys the "invisible" drone
happened to me as well
dont hafta restart the mission
low mural
Nope can’t
low mural
After the first few seconds, all skills become unusable
Not sure how you can jam him then
low mural
At the beginning?
limpid cape
yes
limpid cape
?
low mural
You can’t do that after you already started
limpid cape
yea u can use it like once
then it becomes unusable
but if you use the jammer pulse, it destros the drone and ur good to go
limpid cape
bruh i did this to fix the glitch
low mural
If it works it works
limpid cape
yeah
i spent likea hour before finding out online that the jammer pulse destroys the drone
low mural
Yikes
limpid cape
cus there would be like a random hit that actually did damage
and i was like"oh maybe i just shoot him a lot?"
and then he armor kited and i searhed up whether it the invincibility was supposed ot happen or it was a glitch
astral gate
Okay, So it's the third time I restart the mission and it's still bugged
I tried using the EMP Pulse but after 2 seconds he becomes invincible again
And a a point in the fight , you can no longer user skills
limpid cape
well it worked for me, like i shot and destroyed the drone, causing it to go invisible. then used the jammer pulse
round sinew
Wonder why I didn't have this bug.
static bay
@spiral turtle thanks for helping out with figuring out the Mantis' faction.
I've went and did some research and figured out the correct "factions" for all the other exotics, and I'm proud to add the appropriate logos for them to the Gear Spreadsheet
spiral turtle
No prob
spiral turtle
The white phosphorous grenades are the ones thrown by elite true sons throwers right?
static bay
Oh that's what that smoke was. Yeah, the grenades with the white smoke are thrown by the True Sons. Fits with their whole United States army aesthetic, considering that the US Army has access to that nasty stuff
spiral turtle
I thought they were thrown by hyenas
@novel thicket I’m pretty sure that’s just tear gas
Cause in cod mw, the white phosphorous killstreak deploys smoke that disorients and burns just like these grenades
Was just wondering cause I read about something saying white phosphorous and true sons
I was just thinking they were just a modified incendiary grenade
static bay
I'm not an expert but there's definitely some sort of liquid or solid thing that releases the white smoke, you can see it fly into the air
limpid cape
Yes
lone orchid
Wonder why I didn't have this bug.
@round sinew play the mission a few times and I'm assured you will see the bug come out and say hi a few times 🙂
first 20 times I ran the mission, no problem. then a few weeks ago it just started happening every single mission.
And a a point in the fight , you can no longer user skills
@astral gate yup, that's why I scratching my head over peeps saying to use a Jammer when the silly mission has all skills offline... a big wtf moment here...
so far the only sure fire way is to group die and then reset the mission until the darn thing shows up.
limpid cape
Bro, using the jammer once gets rid of the bug, for me at least it got rid of it.
vital swallow
i feel like we're just doing dirty work for the government
@spiral turtle also DC-62 doesn't destroy your skin apparently
bright snow
I mean we're basically playing glorified cops with no restraints, so.
vital swallow
it only goes into contact through breathing or so
hot widget
You only just realised that we are government-sanctioned kill teams murdering citizens lmao?
vital swallow
yeah
spiral turtle
@vital swallow I knew that, DC-62 was a failed medical experiment that was forcefully put into action to combat dollar flu but they weren’t given enough time to see side affects in certain scenarios
Thus the creation of DZ West
vital swallow
oh.
spiral turtle
You only just realised that we are government-sanctioned kill teams murdering citizens lmao?
@hot widget I slightly disagree. In a sense this is true because the in-game government in corrupt as shit.... stares intently at President Ellis but we are also doing some good in holding DC from completely falling apart
hot widget
I mean, rogue agents are everywhere. Division fucked up bad.
Corrupt government or no, Division is hardly a shining example of justice.
spiral turtle
Hyenas are a bunch of looters and gangs that are just taking advantage of what remains, True Sons are essentially domestic terrorists at this point, and Outcasts are just psychos hellbent on killing anyone they see because they were treated horribly. Black Tusk is most likely hired to help cover the governments ass and I feel like in a way they sort of disagree with Ellis just based off of how they talk in certain scenarios.
bright snow
BTSU are pretty much a gun-for-hire organization.
spiral turtle
I mean, rogue agents are everywhere. Division fucked up bad.
@hot widget wrong, JTF and the higher ups fucked up bad by pulling out of the DZ’s and essentially giving a big old fuck you to the division
hot widget
Division isn't any better than everyone else. Everyone sucks here.
spiral turtle
Thus JTF implodes and the true sons are born
bright snow
The settlements are probably the best option. Haven especially.
spiral turtle
Division gets a bad rap for the shitty decisions and betrayal by Ellis and other government officials that activated directive 51 in the first place imo
The government caused the city to implode on itself as Division tried to hold it together
hot widget
Division was a ticking time bomb of agents inevitably going rogue. Have you heard some of the audio logs from Division recruitment peeps in NYC
spiral turtle
Well yes this is true
But
A lot of this comes to surface after Ellis had already fucked over basically everyone
But yes the recruiters also did a shit job
Because they passed people with shitty and manipulative mental states Cough keener cough
hot widget
Yes, Division is very responsible for its own failings.
spiral turtle
But the again, these implosions and ideas to start turning only really came about when the government officials outside of the Division started imploding and the cities falling apart because the government couldn’t keep their shit together long enough for the division to even remotely try to do their job in the first place
spare obsidian
The audio logs we get says some stuff about the rogue agents we fight before keener. They all had some potential to being good agents but also had risks for being fragile as if being prone to going rogue
spiral turtle
Hence why the recruiters did fuck all
hot widget
Hence why Division was a ticking time bomb, regardless of who fucked up in the government
spiral turtle
True
hot widget
Not to mention we have literally zero accountability. We're trying to arrest the only person we're accountable to lmao.
bright snow
The Division is also hunted by the only person they're accountable to.
spiral turtle
I really feel like if we can get clear insight on the Hunters and their purpose other than trophy hunting us, it’ll reveal a lot
hot widget
If Ellis wants to work with Black Tusk we should too.
spare obsidian
I still don't know how are we still winning so many battles but losing so many tactical stuff. Like being always one step behind everything
spiral turtle
Now that I think about it, it’s really fucking weird that the hunters all of the sudden came about when the Division moved to secure the Anti-Virals in Survival
hot widget
Because canonically only our Division agent is the super successful unstoppable badass
spiral turtle
I still don't know how are we still winning so many battles but losing so many tactical stuff. Like being always one step behind everything
@spare obsidian because Ellis has it laid out ahead of time to always be ahead of us
spare obsidian
I think Ellis was just a puppet. Bardon's boss was the real guy moving the pieces
spiral turtle
I’d believe it
hot widget
Ellis' ascension to president was pretty much orchastrated by the guys pulling black tusk's strings.
spiral turtle
Cause In white oak you can tell Galveston and Bardon could genuinely give 5 fucks less about Ellis
Ellis' ascension to president was pretty much orchastrated by the guys pulling black tusk's strings.
@hot widget especially with the set up of those secret service agents
bright snow
Ellis is a puppet and he knows it as well. Although he does try to retain some stature and respectability, but it doesn't really go very well. Case in point: Chickenhawk.
hot widget
Do you know how much good we could do if we just accepted we are directly accountable to the president and worked with black tusk instead of constantly fucking with each other.
spiral turtle
@hot widget ive actually thought about that
spiral turtle
Because honestly bardon seems like an ok dude
bright snow
If I'd think about this for more then three seconds, then playing glorified cops with zero accountability does sounds really fucking back and Theo Parnell's statement of us being the bad guys "wading through blood while he's looking for the truth" starts to sound a hell of a lot more appealing.
spiral turtle
@bright snow keener was just using Theo as pawn compared to the other 3
hot widget
Not saying rogue agents are right, they've pretty much thrown all accountability out the window and decided they know best. But Parnell does have a point there.
spiral turtle
Keener only gave a shit about Dragov, Conley, and Kajika
spare obsidian
When I first played through the WONY, while playing i always said in my mind that "You guys are correct, but you are doing this in the wrong way"
spiral turtle
Because with the ending of tombs
bright snow
@bright snow keener was just using Theo as pawn compared to the other 3
@spiral turtle Yep. The thing is Parnell probably was the most earnest of the whole lot.
spiral turtle
If any of the other 3 asked to be extracted, he would’ve been right on it
He was using Theo because he is so young and able to be manipulated
Literally only using him for his tech smarts
spare obsidian
Keener is a really good manipulator. He charmed everyone around him to do his bidding.
spiral turtle
Because I quote: “Sorry Theo, I cant keep cleaning up your mess”
bright snow
I wouldn't say Keener gave a damn about them, but they had more to use. Dragov and Conley controlled whole factions and Kajika was highly efficient. Theo? Well Theo was good with tech and drones, that's about it.
spiral turtle
Essentially saying “Fuck you in particular because I know you can be manipulated easily and you’re ere expendable from the start”
hot widget
Keener was only interested in "his" rogue agents as long as they were useful to him. Theo ceased to be useful.
bright snow
Exactly.
spiral turtle
Keener was only interested in "his" rogue agents as long as they were useful to him. Theo ceased to be useful.
@hot widget exactttllyyyy
Arrest him?
@hot widget theo?
hot widget
Yes.
spare obsidian
If our agents had the ability to talk, we could've turned Theo back to our side i think. Maybe...
spiral turtle
Well uh
He didn’t exactly seem like he wanted to be arrested
Keener basically brainwashed him against being taken alive by the division
hot widget
Riot foam, cuff him, sprinkle some crack on him, call it a day
spare obsidian
Keener actually betraying him in the end could've changed his mind about being rogue
hot widget
He may be a rogue agent trying to shoot us, but he was also one of Keener's lieutenants and probably knew the second most behind Keener about Keener's network
And he doesn't seem like a "death or glory" type.
spiral turtle
Riot foam, cuff him,
sprinkle some crack on him, call it a day
@hot widget sounds like a good Friday night
Because he wasn’t
He was a conspiracy theorist
hot widget
Yeah, I reckon we could have brought him in alive.
spiral turtle
That was keeners brainwashing that made him take the last stand
spare obsidian
That was keeners brainwashing that made him take the last stand
@spiral turtle I think because we were "wading through blood". He was scared to death and took a last stand
We were killing everyone in the path to the Theo
spiral turtle
I need to talk about hunters for a sec
hot widget
I'd say manipulation, not brainwashing, and I don't think it's anywhere near as dramatic as that. I think he could at least be reasoned with into surrendering. I'm not saying he'd rejoin the division but if he had the choice to die or surrender I reckon he'd surrender.
spiral turtle
That may shed light in some other stuff
Thats logical
One thing I’ve been wondering about hunters
Is the fact that they suddenly decide to show up in survival seemingly out of nowhere
hot widget
I didn't play Division 1, so I don't know much about hunters. Are they rogue agents or are they just super elite operators who get off on killing division agents?
bright snow
Nobody knows.
spare obsidian
Also about the hunters, i think the developers put them just because people liked them in division 1. (For Div2)
spiral turtle
Yet they obviously know that we are going after the antivirals in the dark zone
Therefore they had to have been tipped off by someone right?
spare obsidian
NGN did some videos about hunters. There are just theories
spiral turtle
I didn't play Division 1, so I don't know much about hunters. Are they rogue agents or are they just super elite operators who get off on killing division agents?
@hot widget from what is known so far they are essentially Bounty/Trophy Hunters
spiral turtle
But they are obviously there for a reason
It can’t just be fan service
They know something we don’t
spare obsidian
I think it is a fan service
hot widget
Pretty sure it can be
hot widget
The fact you spawn them through arcane time-sensitive puzzles says "easter egg" to me more than "deep, intricate and secret lore"
spare obsidian
Hunters should be "Hunting", not the other way around
spiral turtle
I believe they are there for a purpose
hot widget
I still can't listen to that music in the christmas hotel CP without getting PTSD from the 4 hunters on the stage in NY you have to shoot all the windows for.
spiral turtle
Hunters should be "Hunting", not the other way around
@spare obsidian and that’s exactly what the stalkers are doing
spare obsidian
@spare obsidian and that’s exactly what the stalkers are doing
@spiral turtle But they just run away when we look at them, not hunting us
spiral turtle
The stalkers are there to study us and our movements and pick up on our tactics
I mean they are obviously a faction of highly elite individuals that know how to fight in every scenario under the sun
One of my theories is that the stalkers are the scouts
spare obsidian
The stalkers are there to study us and our movements and pick up on our tactics
@spiral turtle That would be a very optimistic view to look at that. I don't think Massive would add anything about hunters except more mask hunting
spiral turtle
I get that
But
From a story perspective it’s kinda shitty to introduce something like this with so much potential lore behind it and just make it a difficulty thing
I mean
They obviously hold a grudge against the division for some reason
spare obsidian
Since we are going after rogue agents now, there might be a possibility we could learn more about hunters. But unlikely imo
spiral turtle
As noted by the watch trophies and brutal executions specific to division agents
But again
How. Did. They. Know. About. The. Antivirals?
spare obsidian
I had some ideas about how to introduce hunters to the actual story but it would be difficult to do it. And maybe it would not be in interest with what Massive trying to do about the game story.
spiral turtle
It’s not just something you can stumble on without knowing anything about it
spare obsidian
How. Did. They. Know. About. The. Antivirals?
@spiral turtle That is correct
spiral turtle
The antivirals I mean
spare obsidian
Also aren't they collect watches of the fallen agents? That's a good way to learn information
Listening to our comms
spiral turtle
I mean someone had to tip them off about it
One thing I noticed though
I came across a stalker hunter
And before he ran off I went into photo mode
And it was the crimson hunter
Who I had previously killed
spare obsidian
I don't know much about that, i never see their faces. They always vanish quickly.
spiral turtle
They stay as long as you don’t aim at them or get too close
You can zoom with photo mode
spare obsidian
I see disruption in the hud, look around, see a silhouette, zoom in and poof, he is gone
spiral turtle
But I was clearly Crimson because it was the one with the bloody handprint on his mask
They have specific spawns in certain areas
hot widget
Kill them all to get a prize
spare obsidian
Might be these stalkers are randomly generated. Gotta try looking at him again in another time but same place if he is wearing the same mask
spiral turtle
The one I’m talking about currently was atop a tower in the CERA camps near the Washington monument CP
Right in the middle of all those public executions that spawn
I just have a gut feeling that on the next major expansion (if there is one) it will shed some light on them
Also something I noticed
hot widget
If hunters are ever anything more than a weird/annoying easter egg I will eat my SHD watch
spiral turtle
On the Phoenix Down apparel crates, it shows the Hunters faction logo killing a somewhat distorted Phoenix (Division symbol)
spare obsidian
If hunters are ever anything more than a weird/annoying easter egg I will eat my SHD watch
@hot widget I will hold you on that
hot widget
It's okay I have keener's
spare obsidian
spiral turtle
Obviously implying the fact that the division squad that we are getting the apparel from was killed by hunters
spare obsidian
Obviously implying the fact that the division squad that we are getting the apparel from was killed by hunters
@spiral turtle I never looked closely on the image, you might be true
hot widget
I like to think the hunters gave us those apparel caches as a way of saying sorry for killing whatever that dumb squad was called
spare obsidian
Hunters are madlads, going up against self governed murderers 
hot widget
^ this
spiral turtle
It’s paining me not to read the datamined stuff for S3 and S4 because I want to know but I don’t wanna fully spoil it for myself
hot widget
Rikers killed Noble squad. Not hunters.
spare obsidian
Cool
hot widget
Well that solves that.
hot widget
Apparently there were echoes of them being killed in Div 1.
hot widget
I'm just reading from the thread you linked.
spiral turtle
Well yes
But it’s on the actual fandom wiki too
But then my brain begs the question that there has to be a reason the hunter logo is there instead of rikers since noble squad died to rikers
hot widget
I'd put it down to one of three reasons.
- Massive forgot
- Massive is retconning it
- Massive don't care and slapped a logo on to get all the lore nuts working overtime
spiral turtle
What’s retconning?
spare obsidian
The story has to go somewhere after Faye Lau going rogue. Maybe hunters are also connected to the rogue network keener activated.
spiral turtle
But I’d believe it
The story has to go somewhere after Faye Lau going rogue. Maybe hunters are also connected to the rogue network keener activated.
@spare obsidian stares at season 3 leaks sweats
If the hunters were on the rogue network though they would need one of the watches
Which would obviously be visibly different from the previously collected ones and similar to the one we took off of keener
hot widget
I never understood why rogue agents still wear their watches. Like, shouldn't you take them off so you're not publicly advertising to everybody you're a bad guy?
hot widget
Why do rogue agents have access to ISAC and SHD tech in the first place?!!
Should ISAC be like "naughty, no toys or assistance for you"
spiral turtle
It’s a protocol instated by ISAC
spare obsidian
ANNA exists for a reason
hot widget
Rogue agents existed before ANNA
spiral turtle
Maybe shitty programming by SHD? 
Also didn’t Theo say something like it’s not hard to fool ISAC
hot widget
Theo is also a pretty good hacker.
spiral turtle
This is true
spare obsidian
Keener hacked our watches too in the last mission, giving us prompts like "Give UP"
And completely blocked it in the last battle
hot widget
Keener is also a pretty good hacker (apparently) (on top of everything else he's also good at) (like charming people)
spare obsidian
^^ And hacking a Marauder Drone
hot widget
I think that falls under hacking.
spare obsidian
Like it was a toy
hot widget
I just don't understand why ISAC would have a "rogue protocol" that literally allows you to continue having all your ISAC functionality even though you've literally told him "I'm gonna be naughty".
spare obsidian
1 PM for me, i have all day
spiral turtle
Like I said before maybe it was shitty programming
spare obsidian
I just don't understand why ISAC would have a "rogue protocol" that literally allows you to continue having all your ISAC functionality even though you've literally told him "I'm gonna be naughty".
@hot widget It seems the gadgets and everything is local to the agent. But for example the turrets in DZ attack you when you are rogue
spiral turtle
Skills are guided by ISAC
hot widget
It also seems like ISAC has like 32k of memory because when you go rogue in the DZ he can't remember it and report it back to the network when you get back in LZ and have you branded rogue forever, like what should happen.
spiral turtle
The drone has a little connection line to the ISAC circle on your shoulder
spare obsidian
DZ is dark so anything we do stays in DZ. There is no surveillance. And it seems ISAC changes to another mode when entering DZ
hot widget
Yeah but ISAC still provides guidance for your skills and tactical intel in DZ.
spiral turtle
DZ is dark so anything we do stays in DZ. There is no surveillance. And it seems ISAC changes to another mode when entering DZ
@spare obsidian that’s why is says local communications only and reboots the system
hot widget
So he should be able to file a digital note saying "this agent went rogue" and tell the rest of the network when you reconnect.
spare obsidian
Idk, i am just trying to prove what Massive did with their game. No idea 
spiral turtle
So he should be able to file a digital note saying "this agent went rogue" and tell the rest of the network when you reconnect.
@hot widget but like I said above everything in the DZ is stored locally and is rebooted every-time you enter and exit
hot widget
If there really is no communication in or out of the DZ how can ISAC give you updates on how close the chopper is when you call for extraction?
spiral turtle
Idk, i am just trying to prove what Massive did with their game. No idea
@spare obsidian not our fault massive cant make lore correctly
hot widget
Obviously it's a mechanic to support gameplay first and make sense second, but there's pretty big glaring holes in the whole idea of "rogue agents" if you want to point at them.
spiral turtle
Maybe the pilot switched to that local channel/frequency as it’s maybe the only way to contact an agent in the dark zone? @hot widget
hot widget
If you can contact someone in the DZ then someone in the DZ can contact outside. And then it's not a dark zone.
hot widget
but like I said above everything in the DZ is stored locally and is rebooted every-time you enter and exit
So mark a flag on a protected system partition that won't be reset when you go through the DZ. Clearly not everything is reset when you go through DZ because you keep your SHD level and gear setups etc.
spare obsidian
The fact that we can cut the ropes of the choppers and the pilot is like "ok, im outta here"
spiral turtle
Lmfao
hot widget
Chopper pilot: "okay I'm throwing another rope down"
spare obsidian
Not giving a single fuck about whats happening down there
spiral turtle
Dudes just like whatever
hot widget
You know what would solve 90% of rogue agent issues in DZ? Chopper rolls up and side doors open to like a mounted minigunner on each side
Nobody's going rogue to steal loot now
spiral turtle
Just put stinger hives down
spare obsidian
We have rocket launchers(technician spec). Why not take down the chopper lul
hot widget
nah just make a white tusk chungus rappel down from the extraction chopper. You know, just to make it really safe.
spiral turtle
We have rocket launchers(technician spec). Why not take down the chopper lul
@spare obsidian because we magically can’t pick up ammo for it as soon as we enter dz
hot widget
You'd think you could just carry some spec ammo in
spiral turtle
Smuggling spec ammo xd
@spare obsidian smuggled ammo is 4x more powerful
Ok I should probably try to sleep now
whole flicker
I am disappointed that the Tsunami and shotguns like it dont have barrel or magazine attachments
low mural
Tusnami doesn’t really need a mag attachment
whole flicker
What is this bullshit mortar section of the Black Tusk invasion for the Manning Zoo? You get 2 seconds to try to avoid the mortars that have perfect accuracy, like wtf Division 2?
cold bramble
it just works i guess
static bay
What is this bullshit mortar section of the Black Tusk invasion for the Manning Zoo? You get 2 seconds to try to avoid the mortars that have perfect accuracy, like wtf Division 2?
@whole flicker You have to use a seeker mine or skill DPS build and take out all the enemies in the room before running out for the door, it's fuckin BS
low mural
You mean huntsman?
round sinew
Sure, I can't remember which was releasing tonight.
round sinew
Whatever fucking bug name lol
They're all the same. I'm sure Huntsman will be some poorly optimized skill build as well.
I don't get how the Rogue agent AI is so pants-on-head stupid while the Hunters play so perfectly.
round sinew
Is that Black Tusk mission... New?
azure orbit
do side missions disappear after completing the three strongholds and hitting level 30?
azure orbit
ah, thank you
lone orchid
heh. Just saw this way to spawn a secret boss on Coney Island Amusement Park : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOIQzFWb5Iw shoot rats to spawn the boss. 🙂
I am disappointed that the Tsunami and shotguns like it dont have barrel or magazine attachments
@whole flicker Yup, guess Massive modellers didn't know that even a 12-gauge can be equipped with a suppressor and muzzle variations.
wraith ruin
@lone orchid Thanks for the tips ^_^
static bay
idk what this does for the question of who is paying the BTSU, but I hear a lot of them saying Spanish vulgarities like "like that cabron?" and "hijo de puta". Make of that what you will
round sinew
That's it. BTSU are illegal immigrants
steel radish
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
static bay
hahahahahahah dear lord this was a better response than I expected
lone orchid
Here's the link to the Ubisoft team Division 2 State of the Game Teleconference. (They are building Skyscraper in TU11!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApqKyF1UHgs
PTS 11 will have it. May try it on my gaming PC for a change instead of just my XB 🙂
Ballpark is late August or Sept 11) for its preview (Skyscraper Mode). I for one don't mind if its a DLC if its that good and brings life back to the game.
jagged goblet
more like underground
lone orchid
I have no clue as to what they mean when they say "Skyscraper Mode". Underground wasn't a "Mode". I'm wondering if its something like Hardcore mode. No clue..
steel radish
What would you call underground
lone orchid
Division 1 underground. Youtube : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9GdYadzWic
Honestly, wouldn't mine a complete clone of it for Division 2 gameplay.
round sinew
That's likely Skyscraper
You're just going up instead of down
In all of.., the skyscrapers... In DC?
round sinew
So, did anyone actually enjoy killing Huntsman?
charred bolt
Wow, the huntsman voice collectible was kinda underwhelming.
It was fun killing him with fuckin bulwark build and bullying him but damn the tape is whole lotta nothing.
It only tells us the things we already know: CERA and SHD fucking suck at background checking every employee.
round sinew
Tbh he was dead for me before I knew he was coming.
His location makes spawn camping that trailer easy.
lone salmon
limpid cape
Lol eco-terrorists
round sinew
Titan can't be crazier than Termite.
But then again, this is the "okay with bioterrorism" cell.
limpid cape
for huntsman i couls see him from the other room and could shoot him when he wasnt agro, so i just equipped a nemesis and a marksman build and like killed him like that
was a fairly underwhelming fight with shitty loot
static bay
Hold on a second guys.....remember that conversation about who funds the Black Tusk?
"The perfect soldier. A blend of man and machine, and fully automatic." -Unknown Black tusk executive during a conference call with investors.
static bay
This flavour text on the Mechanical Animal shows that the BTSU are indeed funded by some outside party. They're not just doing it to capture important items like the antivirals to be sold to the highest bidder.
No, they're not a bounty hunting organisation. Some external entity is actually funding the Black Tusk. Some entity is in a business partnership with them.
That sounds like a division agent
@low mural to be fair we are quite rich in Credits.
steel radish
What, cyborgs?
static bay
The issue is, what would that party be paying the Black Tusk in? Assets? You can't invest in a company unless you pay them something. I'm tempted to say that these investors are just buying stocks, but why would a casual stock trader be in a conference call with an executive?
steel radish
I thought money was basically made useless
static bay
Precisely.
Honestly, this flavour text makes little sense since I heard that Schaeffer is 3rd in the chain of command from the head of the Black Tusk. There's just one supervisor and the leader above him, so where would executives fit in?
Perhaps "executive" refers to the Chief EXECUTIVE Officer of the Black Tusk. Notice it says Black Tusk, not Black Tusk Special Unit
The top of the Black Tusk command chain is looking mighty cramped.....
steel radish
If we’re fighting the special unit, is the white tusk the special special unit?
static bay
ahahahahahahaha asking the real questions here. In short, yes.
Take note that the White Tusk may not even be canon. I see nowhere in the command chain to fit in a White Tusk commander, unless they are under the same supervisor as Schaeffer.
I say that they may not be canon because the difficulty descriptions describe "story" as "the rise of The Division", hinting that only Story difficulty is canon
In other words, if someone asks you if you would like to live in the Div 2 version of our reality, immediately say "yes" because you'll be in Story Mode and a literal god to all hostiles.
round sinew
Iirc, story mode and invaded missions are the only canon versions of missions.
The only canon for White Tusk is they're the result of Black Tusk going to NYC and recruiting up what was left of the LMB there.
Tbh I find all that interesting.
Black Tusk outside the BTSU is supposed to be a normal security contractor. LMB outside of New York was also a regular security and military contractor and even denounced the NYC outfit, stating they went rogue
So where's the normal LMB and BT?
steel radish
But like
Wouldn’t it be more winter camo and less full white
LMB seems like a darker shade of white as well
round sinew
I'm just going off the canon we have, man.
static bay
they're only visible your AR contact lenses btw
static bay
Cast your stones
at king on thrones.
but at the end
rats gnaw on our bones.
-Javier Kajika```Can anyone help me decode what Kajika is trying to say here? For the Mozambique Special it was quite simple. He was just trying to say that the JTF should have made sure he was dead. But here I'm not so sure.
I'm thinking he might be mocking The Division's efforts to overthrow factions like the BTSU, but I'm not so sure.
proud phoenix
Isnt that the regulus
merry folio
Maybe he’s trying to foreshadow his fate of opposing the JTF and Division to enact his revenge against those he believed abandoned him and were corrupt therefore, but at the end he would be consumed by what he believed to be a corrupt system and killed.
cold bramble
@static bay there's always somebody else
I.e no matter what you do, someone else will take the kings place
Another interpretation is, you will always be betrayed
peak tapir
My personal interpretation is that you may not always like those that sit on the seat of power and work hard to dethrone them but there are always those that are on the lower totem pole that will stab you in the back as well.
static bay
thanks for the interpretations @merry folio @cold bramble @peak tapir !
I'm getting a few interpretations here
- Kajika isn't mocking the Division, but himself. He's saying that his quest for revenge is ultimately pointless
- Kajika is lamenting the fact that people keep struggling for power even though we'll all be equal in the end
- Kajika is lamenting the fact that the struggle for power is seemingly eternal, and that betrayal is the only constant
steel radish
Deep
static bay
Theory crafting except it's not build theories
fuck someone pointed out that the Regulus revolver can't revolve due to its design and now I can't unsee it
If you guys ever make a joke that no one gets and feel sad about it, just remember that someone at Massive wrote the story so that President Ellis would retreat to Camp White Oak. In real life, this camp is Camp David, which is a Presidential retreat
spiral turtle
Yikes
limpid cape
big funny
whoever wrote the snitch cards, all 74 of em must hav had fun
the meatball sub snitch card is the best
forgot the exact card, but it was a black tusk card
novel thicket
Cast your stones at king on thrones. but at the end rats gnaw on our bones. -Javier Kajika```
@static bay the way I see it, he’s trying to tell how they will never take down the authorities such as the JTF, and will always be defeated in the end since new authorities will take the place of the old ones.
static bay
Ah, so he's lamenting the fact that the whole thing is neverending and pointless anyway?
static bay
I mean the Mozambique Special quote seemed edgy and shallow
But Kajika was saying that the JTF should have made sure that he was dead
and now they didn't they're going to regret it
static bay
Okay so my friend has related the flavour text of the Regulus to the a Bible verse where jesus says "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". By reminding people in a mob that they all have sinned, he effectively stops a stoning.
There is a theme of hypocrisy, where the people who are doing the stoning have sinned too. That's why we suspect that in the flavour text, Kajika uses the phrase "cast your stones" to The Division to people who stone others for their flaws despite being flawed themselves
TL;DR The Division wants to take control of DC, but what have they done to deserve that control? Are they really better than the other factions?
Thanks for attending my TED Talk
hot widget
Technically speaking we owe our allegience to the president, who is working with black tusk. Think of how much shit we could achieve if Division and BT worked together instead of constantly sabotaging each other.
static bay
Yeah that's a huge grey area. The Division is sworn to protect innocents, but also answers to the President. So what happens when both go in different directions?
hot widget
The president is literally the only accountability the SHD has. Without him, we literally answer to nobody and have no oversight.
static bay
You're right. So uhh.....what is with The Division trying to arrest Ellis? That makes no sense lore wise...
hot widget
He hurt our fee fees.
round sinew
I know the point of this discussion, but I feel the need to reiterate: Y'all digging too deep.
You think Massive actually plans out this lore?
The game may have Clancy's name on it, but he ain't writing it.
And I know some people talk a little trash about Clancy, but dude made his stories pretty tight and convincing.
Massive is just trying to support a game like 2 years after release.
cold bramble
Yes, Yes, they didn't plan anything at all https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtaP6Yc7rEM
story elements from now was hinted at as far as 2018
so of course they didnt plan AT ALL
derp
@static bay Ellis was working with BT as far as the first attack on division, that brands him as an enemy of the state he is suppose to be in charge of
hot widget
Alternatively, BT can position themselves as the legitimate authority working with the head of state and brand the SHD a rogue agency. As they are doing.
cold bramble
they only really started doing that when keener betrayed them, they were actively trying to recruit us till we took the antivirals back i believe
hot widget
Well yes, Ellis was working with them from back before he flew into DC and air force one was subsequently shot down.
It's been a long time since I played the base campaign, do black tusk even attack us prior to the first time we do tidal basin?
As I recall it we do capitol stronghold to get the briefcase for Ellis, then he fucks off to black tusk and they nab the antivirals together, then we go after them at tidal basin. But I may be forgetting a few steps.
cold bramble
the initial invasion
hot widget
The invasion only occurs after that, from my memory?
cold bramble
they invade after you reactive the shd network
We were the ones to fire the first shots technically because of them being an unknown force
hot widget
Frankly I don't remember them prior to tidal basin at all, but it has been a while since I played the base campaign...
steel radish
They only invade after you first complete Capitol
Where all 3 factions have been scrambled and Ellis gets his briefcase
glad spruce
I mean... considering the discussion above, its nice to see people discussing the story and lore even when Massive didn't a lot of effort into them
hot widget
Division agents: murder disenfranchised citizens, operate a shoot-on-sight policy on city streets, have a huge problem with agents going rogue, and are actively trying to capture our commander and kill the people he's working with
Are we the baddies?
low mural
We’re kinda basically legal hitmen, if you will
hot widget
"Legal", while trying to arrest our only oversight. Nothing can go wrong with the unaccountable government death squads running things. Nothing at all.
low mural
:)
steel radish
If we only answer to the president then why does a “division commander” exist
The one keener boy and his LMB buddies shot a missile at
burnt wadi
Bcuz the commander is the Division Head? And the President can't manage all the individual Agents. 🤷♂️
steel radish
I thought the point of the division was to have no chain of command
There’s a recording with Kelso’s recruitment where she was drawn to the division because of no chain of command
burnt wadi
That doesn't mean there won't be even a Head right? Headless organization is of no use.
steel radish
“You answer only to the president”
The whole conversation up there was about the only head being the president
burnt wadi
Yes, the SHD. Not each Agent. But they can based on situation
steel radish
What?
burnt wadi
SHD - the organization or department or Division. Agents are members of SHD. or accurately forms the "SHD". Right?
steel radish
Yeah
burnt wadi
So, there should be a Head to manage the "SHD", right?
burnt wadi
Traditional organization or not. You cant run an organization without a head. or atleast a coordinator.
SHD is supposed to work even without a government. which means, even without a president. so if all Agents somehow report to president & managed by him/her, then there won't be a head if there is no government. so there needs a dedicated head/commander/coordinator. whatever u wanna call them.
static bay
"Legal", while trying to arrest our only oversight. Nothing can go wrong with the unaccountable government death squads running things. Nothing at all.
@hot widget yeah see this is why I like the suggestion that Kajika is making a reference to "let he who is without sin cast the first stone"
He's basically calling The Division dangerous hypocrites
Also for the record there's interesting lore and meaning behind just about every Exotic and even some Named items (Burn Out, Mozambique Special, Tardigrade). Why should this have no meaning when everything else does?
I mean I get that wanting a meaning isn't going to wish it into existence but I think it's worth a shot
round sinew
@burnt wadi funny enough, the head, commander, and coordinator are all different positions and are named.
Also reminder that outside of the Agents, SHD has an entire structure outside of the operators. They have an in-house R&D department and an administrative department, where the recruiters would be placed.
That was supposed to be a big thing about Huntsman being allowed to go operational.
SHD is a normal OGA just in times of peace.
I have so much info on SHD's organisation lol.
And it's all fucking inconsistent and frustrating.
steel radish
Continuity?
What’s that?
Although I’m curious
Is this information grouped together anywhere or is it spread over the games
round sinew
Spread out over games, books, comics, several wikis from several publishers, etc.
Because Ubisoft just loves their multimedia.
round sinew
So. In peacetime, SHD works out of three bunker headquarters in Kansas, South Dakota and Texas. Each one is fully self-sufficient and made to be able to run if the other 2 get nuked. They do this by each bunker having their own board of directors who elect a manager for them. These bunkers run the administrative and management sections of SHD.
Out of these three bunkers, SHD is divided into three functional departments.
First department is the R&D department that makes all the cool toys. They use shell corporations to move around their money and personnel to avoid oversight.
Second department is the administrative and logistics arm. This is where HR, payroll, management, admin, etc. come into play in peacetime. And when Directive 51 is active, its where the intelligence analysts and logistics specialists operate out of. (I can assume DZ Vendors might be working out of this department)
Third department is the operations department. Which itself is broken into the recruitment staff, the field agents(that's us and almost every SHD agent you meet in the game), and another set of agents that act as staff and security for important national leadership.
Noticing the obsession with a rule of 3 here?
There's one passage somewhere that states when a Division agent is activated, they outrank every military or government official excluding the President and entire federal agencies. This is a dumbshit statement, here's why.
- It's dumb.
- What does "an entire federal agency" mean? If a SHD agent outranks the director of the FBI, then does he need every member of the FBI to tell him what to do?
- Does this only apply to non-SHD government/military personnel? Or does this mean an active field agent outranks the management at the SHD bunkers? If so, what's the point of commanders if their agents can just do what they want because they "outrank" them?
Tbh, it's the vagueness like that which I would like to see addressed, because it could play really well into why Rogues are such a problem, because they were specifically recruiting people who would mesh well with this thinking, but this thinking can be dangerous if taken to the extreme, which almost all the Rogues do.
Oh right, Division Commanders are like field commanders who organize and direct groups of agents on the ground. In the games, we see one get blown up and Faye Lau takes his job.
You also have Manny Ortega, who's the Division Coordinator, but he seems to do the same thing Faye Lau does? So, are coordinators and commanders the same thing? Are they made up titles? Is it because Manny Ortega isn't actually part of SHD and is really more like a liaison between SHD and the rest of the JTF?
Does it matter because Massive will never explain it because why would they?
hot widget
Manny isn't even a division agent, he was a signalist in the JTF. He may be coordinating our operations but he's not technically in charge of us.
round sinew
Exactly.
His title is Division Coordinator, but he seems to do the same thing Faye Lau, the Division Commander did. Granted, Lau at the time was pretty fucked up, so maybe a commander is supposed to be more hands-on.
hot widget
I think he's more just useful to have than a necessary part of our command structure. That said, if he mentions pilot Torres and Kenly College to me one more time I will happily shove his microphone down his throat and let Cindy handle my missions instead.
round sinew
But if that's true, where's the commander for D.C.? Is there literally no other agents outside the player group, Kelso, and the DZ merchants that stuck around?
Did not a single agent look around and go "I'm the commander now."
And how did some National Guard guy get picked to be the switchboard operator for SHD in the DC area? Out of everyone everywhere, that's all they had left in the city was some comms specialist over literally any actual SHD personnel?
hot widget
I doubt he was picked in any official capacity, I'm pretty sure he was just trying to be useful.
round sinew
Also, also. D2's plot makes it out to seem that ISAC everywhere was offline due to the attacks in DC. You're telling me that the only central servers for ISAC are in DC? I can understand why they're there. But how is not backed up for redundancy at the bunkers? The lore makes this whole big deal about SHD being the peak of survivability and redundancy in case any bunker gets nuked the others can live, and how agents are trained to survive with 0 support. But what the fuck?
Shouldn't it be so that if there's the 4 mainframes in DC and in each of the bunkers, even if 3 of those mainframes get completely disintegrated, ISAC should be perfectly fine operating with 1 mainframe?
Why am I putting more thought into the lore than Massive did?
hot widget
ISAC is basically a plot device anyway, he still provides skill guidance and tactical communications while we're in the dark zone and allegedly cut off from all communications. So what, our wristwatch can do all of that without being connected to the SHD network? Doesn't seem like we really need the network then.
round sinew
Fair.
IIRC, I think there's some handwave that there's a local ISAC system in every agent's brick.
But it's like having a smartphone without the cloud or whatever.
hot widget
Seems perfectly usable to me.
round sinew
Right. I guess that's the "redundancy"
But why does the cloud fall apart if a single location in Washington D.C. gets hit?
Also, if ISAC is in the brick like a lot of the lore states, the hell does the watch do? Why do people steal watches?
Even in the book, the main character loses his ISAC access because a guy lands a baseball bat hit on his brick and breaks it.
steel radish
I think SHD agents are supposed to be rarer than they seem in game?
silent geyser
Theory: Hunters are rouge agents that joined the black tusk. And hunters are a part of the black tusk. But because they are too strong the black tusk made them hunters
low mural
Hunters will still attack black tust units
steel radish
Was it specified what wave the player agent is a part of?
burnt wadi
Second wave
In the first game, yes
I was hoping for Hunters to be Keener's special unit. But now since Keener is gone. I dono how well that theory can be built.
Of course there are lots of theories behind Hunters. But killing SHD Agents & taking their watches, that would suit Keener better than the third wave theory, imo.
burnt wadi
I guess DC Agents are also part of 2nd wave
Bcuz 1st wave Agents were locked inside DZ
round sinew
The third wave theory could still work tbh
steel radish
Yeah it was never specified what wave we are in div 2
round sinew
Waves don't really matter so much in D2
burnt wadi
I mean all theories can work. Im just saying if Hunter was Keener's men, it would ve been even better. bcuz it suits more
round sinew
Yeah well, we all know Massive did Keener dirty.
steel radish
I was about to say impossible because agents don’t use melee weapons as a joke
Then I realise Kajika exists
burnt wadi
Yea, once they're rogue, they dont follow the same protocol. So they can use anything they want. Even Chainsaw. lol
steel radish
Didn’t even know there was protocol behind it
Just that players never got any melee weapons :(
burnt wadi
I think div 1 Agents had a knife. but never had a melee option
round sinew
Yah only melee option we get in game is a rifle butt
steel radish
Give em the ol whack
static bay
Yah only melee option we get in game is a rifle butt
@round sinew Sweet. Dreams.
round sinew
Are made of these
static bay
Who am I to disagree?
grizzled hollow
I travel the world and the seven seas
thick narwhal
everybodys looking for something
proud phoenix
Wut about lady death knuckles
vague crane
@burnt wadi I like your idea of the Hunters being a specialized, rogue cell that follows after Keener's Legacy. There was even a lot of speculation that the Hunter who ends up shocking you for a long period of time when you go to save the agent in the basement (I'm blanking on his name right now) was in fact Keener as it is the same type of shock "pulse" we see a couple times when we go to Liberty Island to face Keener at the end.
tall tendon
Feel like hunters have kinda been tossed to the side a little
dry tendon
I Have been spoiled
burnt wadi
@vague crane Well that's interesting. Never thought about that.
@tall tendon Yea. Hunters always had very little presence in both the games while they had really high part to play. Wish their backstory is revealed at some point. Even a hunter specific dlc would be good too.
tall tendon
Would be cool if they were added to legendarys same way they were to Amherst
At the very least
I wouldn't be surprised if they made an appearance in skyscraper
burnt wadi
No. I think them making appearance in legendary & skyscraper wont make any difference. Anything revealing what the hunter is will be more useful
But yea it will be fun, like underground, legendary. But wont be any different
tall tendon
Won't make a difference but would be nice
burnt wadi
Yep. that is true
tall tendon
The masks are all very cool but made the hunters kinda gimmicky
They don't have the same presence they did in the survival reveal trailer
burnt wadi
Yea. They just felt like a little higher difficulty npc thats all.
But still they are unique. and thats y we are talking abt them a lot
it can also be good if they spawn in the open world without summoning them. you know just like the rogues
tall tendon
Yes
Would be great for the hunters to find me rather than for me to find them
They are hunters after all
burnt wadi
Damn a very valid point
hot widget
Hunters are just feeling a bit unmotivated since Keener basically took over their whole schtick of weird grudges against the division.
vague crane
Yes. I agree, they have become more like another apparel event gimmick.
I remember shitting my pants when I was in the Underground and all of a sudden, they appeared. I feel like the triggering events you have to do to get them to spawn in the Division 2 are a bit Easter Egg-y rather than them being a critical part of the story.
burnt wadi
atleast after u got the masks
Yea. the underground thing was really good. and that was real hunting. they chase u. u cannot hide from them. but fight back
burnt wadi
uh whats msv?
burnt wadi
oh
vague crane
But then again, it seems like a lot has changed from Division to Division 2 so I guess that unfortunately included the Hunters as well.
burnt wadi
@vague crane But unlike div 1, the hunter made a presence in the div 2 story, which u mentioned above. In that case, they mean more to div 2 story than div 1. isnt it?
vague crane
@burnt wadi I guess it depends on how you look at it. In Underground and Survival, they were appearing like clock work, on their own, unprovoked. It was cool to have a similar experience with that side mission in Division 2; however, that was it. It felt like it was just something thrown in rather than part of something more. You go in, the Hunter appears, you shoot and roll around for a little bit, and then you get shocked and they run away. This is why I believe it was Keener rather than an actual Hunter due to the lore of the Hunters cutting down Division agents without any mercy or hesitation.
I just feel a little cheated that it was more of an Easter Egg in Division 2 rather than part of the normal experience.
tall tendon
Do you remember the div2 side mission with the hunter
Nothing ever really came of that
vague crane
Don't get me wrong, they are nice to fight and have something tougher than the normal NPCs. It just feels lacking.
tall tendon
There's no depth of gravity
vague crane
@tall tendon exactly my point.
steel radish
I don’t think hunters will appear in skyscrapers
burnt wadi
@vague crane Yea, I get that. But I was just saying, the hunter in div 1 had no presence in story except ambush in ug, legendary & be the main npc in survival. Which is like introducing boss fights with no connection to the playing story. Whereas in div 2, you get that side mission with hunter. So I felt like hunter had a connection to playing story in div 2 than in div 1. But you are right it can be keener and not the usual hunter. Bcuz I felt like, what's wrong with this hunter, he just left me alive. Why didnt he kill me.
And after that the hunters feel like easter egg, yes
steel radish
Rogues already replaced their old underground mechanic
burnt wadi
Kind of. But not completely.
Hunters are a lot stronger, aggressive, hides in plain sight & can play with your skills.
However, this brings back to my earlier point. Hunters are Keener's special unit. May be a highly trained members of Keener's. And the one that are not specialized are the usual rogues.
steel radish
I believe in the third wave theory less because of their behaviour in TD2
burnt wadi
And what behavior is that? You mean that side mission?
burnt wadi
of course theory
vague crane
Thats why I think Keener was impersonating one. I think he killed one and took his gear to move about without being recognized.
tall tendon
Hunters aren't agents imo
burnt wadi
oh i never said hunters are agents. but since u said this, they can be too
tall tendon
Nah
That's such a boring backstory
Just another one of keeners lackeys
Hunters don't answer to a higher power
Especially not a division agent
vague crane
I believe the Russian theory more than I believe them being agents myself.
burnt wadi
@vague crane so u mean, hunters have no relation to keener. but keener killed a hunter & acquired his gears?
burnt wadi
How do you know the hunters dont answer to any higher power?
vague crane
@burnt wadi that's what I believe. It makes sense. Hunters first appeared around the time that we had to deal with Keener. It would make sense he's come across them.
vague crane
I think they report to some other power. Not the United States.
tall tendon
Hunters are pretty alpha
I see them more as a clan than are government division or soemthing
Maybe they were activated by a separate classified directive tho
That's also an interesting alternative
burnt wadi
Hunters either need to report to somebody definitely. Or are ex-agents. otherwise why do they want to target agents
burnt wadi
separate classified directive? u mean third wave?
tall tendon
Yes
vague crane
The thing that surrounds the Hunters in such mystery for me is the ability to hack/disable division tech.
vague crane
Keener does this too but it's interesting to me that the Hunters have been doing it since the beginning.
tall tendon
I think they were created as a direct counter to division agents
burnt wadi
How did the hunter do it from the begining. we have no reports of them before first wave.
tall tendon
What do you mean
burnt wadi
and they target only second wave agents
tall tendon
How did they do what
vague crane
Meaning they were able to disable/hack shd tech.
vague crane
Correct.
tall tendon
There's so much going on in the division world outsidd of what our characters see
burnt wadi
but it was never mentioned anywhere that they also attacked any rogues
vague crane
^^this
vague crane
The lore of the division is hugely under represented in the games thus far.
tall tendon
And it's not like second wave are in contact with first wave much
burnt wadi
lol. so there is no way of saying they attacked them either.
yea. it has so many pieces spread through the entire story. and a lot left hanging. hence we all create a lot of theories
vague crane
Someone needs to get rogues to spawn and a hunter to spawn at the same time in Division 2 and see if they attack each other. 😆 😆
tall tendon
At the end of the day that's just my theory
burnt wadi
lol
steel radish
A GAME THEORY
tall tendon
Just gotta wait and hope that massive utilise the cool concept they've got going
burnt wadi
well if they take up each of these piece and ellaborate on it, there is a lot of content. damn. or is that why they are left like that? to continue later?
vague crane
But, remember, apparel events are more important than hunters because that's what brings in micro transactions.
burnt wadi
nope. u can still play without micro txn
steel radish
I don’t trust ubi to not fuck it up
vague crane
I would totally buy a hunter DLC as well! I have no problem with that purchase.
storm egret
Just noticed a super fun detail, in the White House ops center (where the DZ NPC is) some phrases said over the intercom or whatever are directly reused from other Ubi games. I heard a few from SC:Blacklist and some other. Literally never paid any attention to it haha
burnt wadi
Oh. I need to check that. haha
storm egret
I was alt-tabbed and then I heard a phrase I heard a lot in Blacklist and I was like wait, did I really just hear that? 😂
tall tendon
Need a new splinter cell game
round sinew
The fuck did i miss
steel radish
Something something hunter
round sinew
Fun fact: Speaking of SC, they finally announced SC would make an appearance in Siege
So now that's an SC cameo in Far Cry 5, 2 Ghost Recon games, and Siege. All without a new SC game.
I'm so angry
karmic lotus
SC wut? Ain't that series pretty dead tho?
round sinew
Yep
The Far Cry cameo was unnecessary. Both Ghost Recon ones were nice, I guess.
But why is Sam Fisher joining Rainbow?
I can see 4th Echelon maybe attaching a guy to Rainbow for shits and giggles, but the Sam Fisher?
Who's next, Scott Mitchell?
They gonna get John Clark or Ding Chavez out of retirement?
Why am I even complaing. They have a psychiatrist as Rainbow 6, and they've let literal mercenaries and dudes off the street join.
R6 lore is more fucked up than Division lore lol
tall tendon
SC shouldn't even be a dead series
tepid stump
poopsocks
steel radish
Next they’re gonna bring a division agent from the super secret SHD into team rainbow who plays in a stadium in front of hundreds
Because why tf not
regal saddle
the new direction rainbow six is going kinda sucks
every new op has gotta be super unique and flashy
which ends in some stupid game choices and most of the ops looking retarded
like why the fuck are some of the ops even on the team, it doesn't make sense
low mural
glad spruce
Just to remind myself, next week is Titan's release, yeah?
earnest robin
25.8
glad spruce
Alright
soft shuttle
But why is Sam Fisher joining Rainbow?
@round sinew they confirmed that all tom clancy games are in the same world and theyre connected.
round sinew
@soft shuttle Not the point of my question.
soft shuttle
Regardless. Could be in the same world but different times
round sinew
You explained how(I already knew this, though that announcement is from like 10+ years ago and has broken down a little due to all the games existing), but not why.
I will happily await a Division agent joining Rainbow though.
steel radish
The Division takes place in 2018 afaik, so yeah it would be lore breaking
round sinew
Or Rainbow entering Division 2.
steel radish
You wouldn’t have ghosts running around in Bolivia whilst green poison ravages the world
soft shuttle
Imagine bringing docs heal pistol in division 2 omg
round sinew
EndWar begins in 2016, too. And nobody mentions the global economy literally falling apart in Ghost Recon, Division, or Rainbow 6.
steel radish
That just seems like a worse chem launcher
soft shuttle
So basically they confirmed that theyre connected but they themselves f***ked it up
soft shuttle
Lmfao
steel radish
They just want to milk splinter cell without making a game
I’m pretty sure they explicitly stated somewhere that the division isn’t included in Clancyverse
Lemme try find it
soft shuttle
True. Honestly of all times to put an og character into the game i think this is by far going to be the best update it r6s
round sinew
It's dumb and there's no canon reason for it and I await the day they do some Division crossover.
I could see some random 4th Echelon guy joining Rainbow for shits and giggles. But why is, of all people, Sam Fisher joining Rainbow?
On top of that, why is Rainbow working with a mercenary company? Why are there literal PMC employees joining an international NATO-based antiterror military unit?
I just want good lore in my Tom Clancy games, man.
soft shuttle
I just started the game a few days ago. A friend of mine recommended it to me said its like the corona virus but with guns n shit so i said why not lol
round sinew
Welcome to the game, man.
soft shuttle
Thanks fam
round sinew
This is not the channel for you, lol. We discuss some late game shit.
But lately we've just been sitting in here and bitching about the overall lore.
soft shuttle
Ohh no story wise i finished