division-universe

[late void]

Kiwis hate the French, might be what you're thinking of. Rainbow warrior thing.

[loud pilot]

We Canadians hate the French

[ashen jungle]

You are french.

[loud pilot]

We as in just me

[ashen jungle]

our slang for them is yank, so: "sceptic tank".
but I digress, lorelorelore, uh lore...okay here we go:
Is ISAC voiced by an ingame actual person, or was it a digital recreation

[loud pilot]

Not from Quebec

[torn shoal]

i think isac is the same as glados, real voice actor, lot of mods to the voice

[ashen jungle]

.....I'm asking about a character, I know ISAC is voiced by Garrus.

[torn shoal]

ah

[ashen jungle]

ya know, Brandon Keener

[loud pilot]

Isn’t isac voiced by the same guy who voices Alexander Ortiz so I’d imagine it’s just his voice with a bunch of post production effects

[torn shoal]

brandon ?

did i miss a joke ?

[ashen jungle]

Brandon Keener is ISAC's VA, shares a name with the arch villain of div1, niche bit of lore.

[torn shoal]

lmao i didnt even know that, i thouth you were changing keener name for a joke

[ashen jungle]

I am convinced that's where they got the name from, otherwise that is a hell of a plot-twist.

@loud pilot Having seen him in live-action stuff, I can certainly say that he's also putting on an accent.

[loud pilot]

I’d imagine he is a lot va’s that we know about in this game are

[torn shoal]

at least its better than canadian people trying a french accent in movies

im still salty about that one marvel character that has a quebec accent which absolutely DESTROY the french language

[ashen jungle]

@loud pilot He also did an ad for FedEx, and I can totally see ISAC's deadpan there.

[loud pilot]

Never disrespect the Quebec accent

[rich lark]

Leapfrog in winter soldier?

Also how the hell did I not realize Garrus vakarian is ISAC

[ashen jungle]

"can it wait for a bit, I'm in the middle of getting stuck in a bank vault".
See, you can totally hear it.

[ember vector]

I just realized, a series of films based on The Division franchise would have so much potential as the successor(?) of the Mission: Impossible film series. There are so many similarities between the two in terms of lore.

[ashen jungle]

Both involve incredibly long waits between instalments for sure.

[torn shoal]

as long as we dont get tom cruise im down

but a mission impossible like movie is a good idea

[floral gull]

Something tells me Natalya is going to turn into a misguided sympathetic villain based on recent manhunt comms

[sick lantern]

alas, woe is the poor russian mercenary heiress

[glad spruce]

Doubt it.

All the seasonal storyline had established her as a repressed and narcissistic sociopath

[glad spruce]

Then again, there are some people who think Lau, Kelso, and Keener are ten times worse than McManus and Sokolova, so who knows

[ashen jungle]

Wanting to carpet bomb a city in genocide juice: vs wanting to run the city.
I'll take the dictator over Thanos.

I am curious about the end goal of the current villains (Sokolova and co), like, what exactly do they want to rule?

[torn shoal]

from history, i guess they'd rather rule a kingdom of ashes than live in harmony but not as leader

[sleek plover]

Ill gladly take Thanos over dictator but...

tbh both are hell

besides I hope we turned off the ac/heater in keeners cell so its hella stuffy there

[ashen jungle]

There's a big enough gap to almost walk through, I don't think an AC is the biggest issue right now.

[late void]

Put a radio down there (outside of his reach) with one of those recordings from div 1 safehouses with Rick Valassi on repeat

[loud pilot]

Don’t hate on my boy Rick valassi he was on the ground floor giving the people the real facts and none of that jtf bullcrap

[sick lantern]

mm chemtrails

[late void]

After a while his voice just does my head in, when you've already heard all his pieces, it's annoyingly difficult to just tune him out

[loud pilot]

I could never

[ashen jungle]

I'm with Kettle on this, he sounds like a local DJ near me who has this nasally tone but people seem to love him.

[torn shoal]

u guys wish u were as good as ricky

[ashen jungle]

@loud pilot Okay that's enough "le random", this is the lore chat for div.

[sleek plover]

Tbh i always thought aaron keeners goal is basically light yagami

"God of the new world"

[loud pilot]

Ok

[wicked gorge]

Except Keener is actually likable unlike Light

[ashen jungle]

"likable" is a strong word.

[torn shoal]

As likable as thanos would be with a british accent I guess

I still dont understand why some people send love letters to serial killers but here we are

Also lot of people worship Light actually, there are countless people saying he is eight/the good guy of the story

That's how you know média litteracy and good morals are gone to never come back

[sick lantern]

hacking cough<

[torn shoal]

People prefer to be seen as gods rather than live in a good world as equals

[rich lark]

I love that the HUD is diagetic but I am always trying to figure out which parts are cannon

Like do the AR contact lenses actually show damage numbers lol

[torn shoal]

in lore this isnt a looter shooter, so 1 bullet can kill anyone basically

but people be shooting entire crates of ammo cause they just suppress fire heavily

and plot armor is a thing

[rich lark]

Still makes me wonder like I am pretty sure that hit makers would be built into the agents HUD

[torn shoal]

you dont need hit marker, you shoot until isac says they dead

[wicked gorge]

All of it if I had to guess

[prisma socket]

enemy vital signs:…. zero

[proper knot]

Anyone know how the JTF have survived this long against the black tusk they don’t seem to be gaining any better gear ?

[torn shoal]

they dont fight bt that much, in lore there is not a lot of fighting, its mostly short raids, holding your ground, helping your side staying alive

the rare fights def dont go in jtf side

like the white oak raid got them all killed

[proper knot]

Ah I see

I guess they also rely heavily on the agents to?

[torn shoal]

they rely on division agent to do the stuff they cant do, but they also do their part

like, taking some heavily defended place ? let division do that, a control point ? they can do that themselves

[proper knot]

That makes sense

[tender jackal]

How the mighty have fallen 😔

[glad spruce]

There's a reason why civilians banded together and made their own settlements and militias

[hybrid cedar]

Correct me if im wrong , ive speedrunned the lore

Do i correctly assume that Keener after going rogue kinda discovered all that BTSU bullshit with Nat and forcibly cooperates with the Division since Nat and her Illuminati friends are doing some real shady world domination super villain shit?

[glad spruce]

Yes

[hybrid cedar]

so he aint the real bad baddie?

[sick lantern]

he is a villain but no longer the overarching one

[hybrid cedar]

jesus , im leaving the division 2 years alone and people cant squash that overglorified PMC

Guess were stackin bodies then

[hybrid cedar]

Can you give me a rough outline where were currently going storywise

[sick lantern]

no tbh better off asking Hawkster lol

majority of the plot for a while has been in audio logs from Descent which I stopped following

Black Tusk working with the Hunters and uhh Keener will help us fight them and he has a settlement in Brooklyn

something something network

[sleek plover]

I mean what puzzles me is why global domination?

I mean...what could nat do? build statues of herself?

[hybrid cedar]

In Div 2 , the Government is de facto crippled af

Id bet that Sokolova wants to get her hands on nuclear weapon arsenal to either go full dictatorship , or she wants to rule America with the oll boot in the neck tactic

Eitherway , she needs to be stopped and fortunately we got the ammo to do that

[sleek plover]

so shes gonna go jabba the hut afterwards if she succeeds

[torn shoal]

you'd be surprised how many would want that as leaders

people wanna leave a mark, good or bad

they wanna be remembered, in a good way if possible, if not then in a bad way is fine

[sick lantern]

"save society from itself" all we know as to why

and that's her actual inner thoughts not speaking to someone else

so we really don't have any motivation

[solemn sentinel]

how did the Blacktusk get so much manpower, did they bribe most of the US military to join them?

[ashen jungle]

They were already a massive corporation before the apocalypse, you have to imagine that people wanting food+shelter would agree to sign up with what looks like a massive army, once everything went bad.

[solemn sentinel]

makes sense

[torn shoal]

not to mention the fun times in the barracks

[marble dawn]

Looking at the infrastructure at Tidal Basin they probably don't have hard time hiring post-green poison

[storm axle]

Who shoot down air force one?

Black Tusk?

[sick lantern]

deja vu

bruv you already asked

[storm axle]

I have dementia

[glad spruce]

True Sons

[tepid ibex]

False Daughters

[glad spruce]

... You just gave me an idea

[sudden mortar]

Agents into the Divisionverse

[glad spruce]

I was thinking of having a faction named False Daughters for my own sci-fi story.

But your idea has merit as well

[torn shoal]

i hope its about some fake gods

[glad spruce]

I will say it'll involve cults who believe themselves to be gods.

😛

[torn shoal]

thats what im talking about

cant go wrong with that

[glad spruce]

Okay, so I've read the overview of Y7S1.

The story is about us Agents in a race against time towards ||finding and extracting a high-value asset embedded within Sokolov Concern before Sokolova moves in for the kill.||

[frosty pier]

Guess they took out the threads for division 1? It's been 8 years and every time I try survival it don't click with me.

[floral gull]

I’m still wondering if we can get the Bioreactor back

[torn shoal]

anything is possible if devs want it to happen

[floral gull]

I’m glad I listened to Hearts on Fire

Get to know Agent Hoskins before the dlc

[lunar moss]

does anyone know where the prologue of div2 takes place

[ember vector]

Costal Settlement.

[lunar moss]

but what state

[glad spruce]

Maryland, if I had to take a guess

[cold bramble]

Maryland, that’s Pennsylvania right?

[glad spruce]

Nah, both are different states

[torn shoal]

to me there is new york and los angeles thats about it

too many states in that country to actually care

[cold bramble]

So can the battle for Brooklyn be seen as a pivotal moment in the story? Cuz I imagine we’re gonna deal a hefty blow to the enemy

[ashen jungle]

You're asking for after-action details on a DLC that isn't out yet.

We're good, we're not quite psychic yet.

[torn shoal]

cant wait for my phychic powers to be unlocked when i hit 70

id be like "hmmmn gonna rain soon, i can tell that thanks to my super powers"

before the acid rain comes

[cosmic slate]

ah you mean the free random dlc you unlock as you age

[torn shoal]

idk about free with the healthcare bills piling up

[sudden mortar]

hey Hawkster, ||we have three more footages added to the collectibles|| not sure if they are from the season or from the Brooklyn.

[glad spruce]

Yeah, I noticed

[floral gull]

Maryland dlc les goooo

[glad spruce]

???

[glad spruce]

The first comm you get during ||first visit of the Bridge settlement is pretty dark.||

[glass notch]

What is it about???
(I haven't bought the dlc yet)

[ember vector]

So many callbacks to the first game's prologue in the DLC, I love it!!

[marble dawn]

After the intro mission to Brooklyn ||Jess mentions being our damsel in distress again (or something among those lines) despite it being the first time our D2 agent meets them, this grey canon stuff is confusing||

[ember vector]

I think ||she was referring to the Division itself as we, the player, rescued her from the Rioters at Madison Square Garden in the first game. Kind of, you know, breaking the fourth wall.||

[glad spruce]

Which makes sense ||since the Division did get her out of trouble the first time||

[marble dawn]

Oh yeah checks out

[small knot]

Story for the dlc was sick but one thing ||I wish we got to see keener in the main story, it was great seeing Theo again but I do wish keener had a role in it especially with the revelation of Grant making deepfakes of keener in the studio ||

[small knot]

Also a big thing I liked a lot was how ||Anna became more of our go to AI over Isaac which makes me think we’re becoming more and more rogue. I like where the story is going ||

[glad spruce]

Finished the plot. ||Man, what a finale. And it was so good, killing that arrogant pos Danvers.||

[small knot]

||Now we gotta take down that annoying ass wannabe YouTuber Grant. Bro thinks he’s so cool making his videos making deepfakes of my goat Keener ||

[cursive tapir]

Yeah I think there’s an echo between Schaeffer and McManus where McManus basically tells Schaeffer “get as many army/special forces washouts as you can”

Presumably in the lead up to Amherst’s attack, Black Tusk went on a hiring spree

The novels also showcase that there are several large civilian settlements that view Black Tusk as the rightful authorities over America, as opposed to the Division. They’d presumably make a good recruiting pool as well

[cursive tapir]

Yeah it’s been HEAVILY implied Nat is trying to get access to the nuclear football/launch codes, she’s already prepping underground bunkers for the event of a nuclear winter, wouldn’t be shocked if that turns out to be the dark zone/environmental threat in Div3, seeing as Green Poison has run its course and Eclipse seems to be dead in the water

It is very funny to me that the Division 2 finally acknowledged the player character’s absurd body count in-story

Like you kinda don’t exist as a character with any agency in terms of the narrative, you’re really just a goon that goes to kill things on behalf of other people, but it is highly amusing to me that we finally got to a point in the story where the bad guys are like|| “We need to send an entire platoon to kill THAT ONE GUY specifically”||

[wicked gorge]

I like how in the dlc they dont call us agents but it’s the DC agents.

[glad spruce]

Better than calling us "The Sheriff", that's for sure

I did get the found footage stuff from plot, so I'll summarize them one by one.

Deepfake.

||In this footage, we see Matthew Grant making deepfake videos of Aaron Keener killing civilians by using actors and the tech from the Descent simulation program. This is due to Grant's partnership with our main antagonist, Richard Danvers.||

Friends

||It's simply Theo Parnell and Sarah Moretti setting up power at the Bridge Park Pier.||

Tech.

||After faking her death and pledging alliance to Black Tusk, Sarah Moretti delivers a number of Rogue supplies to Richard Danvers. Of course, Danvers wanted the vault key that Theo had, with hopes that Parnell would give it to Dr. Kandel. Of course, as it turns out in the ending cutscene, Agent Hoskins had the vault key.||

[loud pilot]

How do I spoiler tag?

[glad spruce]

|| on each side

[loud pilot]

| like this |

Nope

|| test||

There we go

I’m just so curious how this is a stand alone || like the black tusk built a literal blimp under Aaron keeners and the rogues noses and we are just supposed to not have that effect the story is wild to me ||

[full grail]

I feel like it was a bait adn switch

im sure itll be tied into crossroads somehow

army terminal definitely my favourite mission

||when the door opens and theres black tusk stuff everywhere||

[small knot]

||That was such a great reveal, my reaction lined up exactly with the voice line in game with “black tusk? No way”||

[cursive tapir]

Do we think the ||rogue tech|| that ||Sarah|| handed over to Danvers could be ||Eclipse? It seemed like a VERY strong red glow coming from the create ||

Plus we can suspect that ||eclipse|| was likely going to feature heavily in Heartlands given the ||red smoke in all the promotional materials ||

Is there anything after the cutscene ||in the basement with Theo, Kandel and Hoskins? Or is that the end? ||

[olive comet]

hey guys can someone explain why our agents watch has not gone red indicating we have gone rouge. Ive been catching up with the story and it feels like it totally shouldve by now.

dont know how to do the spoiler thing to explain my point

[sleek plover]

rather disappointed that the new dlc isnt really reveal much on the enemies and Cabal

[full grail]

they always said it was going to be detached from the ongoing seasonal story

I think the events of army terminal are more of a tie in than expected

[craggy skiff]

Why did kelso kill a doctor?

[full grail]

He was a black tusk asset keeping Schaeffer in a coma so he couldn't help the division

[sick lantern]

that ECHO doesn’t have McManus in it, just a BT higher up telling Schaffer to recruit scumbags for the BTSU. considering it was made years before McManus was created as a character

“the novels” showcase nothing of the sort. the Black Tusk controlled one shown city in one book and were still up to their old deception by ||drugging Maira Kanhai to keep her complacent||, then they lost control. there are not “several large civilian settlements” ever shown to be friends with the black tusk

[hybrid cedar]

Thing is , Nat wants power , absolute power.

She mentioned in several logs a "button" and as far as i know - an older term for firing nukes is "Pushing the red button"

Not only running a private army , Nat has contacts to government , shady gunrunners (as they supplied the Hyenas) and bought Ellis as a puppet

I wouldnt wonder if BT spied the Division whilst they battled through Div 1 and Div 2 , to set up course and evaluate strength , slowly consolidating their power till they got green light to invade

I mean we utterly gonked the Gangs in Div 1 and 2 , shredded even the LMB and stacked bodies so much that we probably killed the world pop twice.

BT hired remnants of the LMB , supplied gear to all gangs and probably wanted the Division to be in battle so long that they could take over with least possible resistance

[sick lantern]

fails to take over and gets into an extended conflict
lol lmao even

[hybrid cedar]

Well , fair point being made that they really nuked the gangs , but couldnt tackle the Division

[glad spruce]

Just remember to not get overconfident.

We know what happened the last time we got overconfident against Black Tusk

[hybrid cedar]

I was about to say , that the Rogue agents (well id give em that) were throwing multiple wrenches in their gears and botched their ops

[hybrid cedar]

We killed 90 Percent of Schaeffers crew , botched a rocket assault , killed off their operatives ?

Oh and we successfully stole the antivirals

[glad spruce]

But they have the bioreactor

That they stole from us during their attack on the White House

[hybrid cedar]

Then we steal it back

and write a laminated strongly worded letter to nat

[glad spruce]

But we did ||destroy their zeppelin filled with striker drones and purple flame artillery||

[hybrid cedar]

Yes , i think with the DLC info that probably Keener was thrown shade at , that he didnt do

[honest briar]

||So from the deepfake has keener been set up on some events||

[hybrid cedar]

I would go as far as to say that they also already discredited the Division with that

[hybrid cedar]

Speculation , we dont really know but can guess

[honest briar]

I guess the other argument is, he didn’t really ever defend himself or deny any of it

[hybrid cedar]

Correct , for the time being i aint directly shooting Keeners head , but as soon a finger moves sus , imma blast the whole arsenal in his skull

Cuz i think BT is cooking something miserable , and i think Schaeffer needs to really give us his intel

[glad spruce]

We're still focusing on getting some assets out of Black Tusk before Nat moves in for the kill

[hybrid cedar]

She can try , but she will end up riddled with bullet holes when she faces us

(Jokingly - The DLC feels like they want to ESPECIALLY KILL our characters)

Like , we hate the division - BUT ESPECIALLY THAT WEIRD GUY

[glad spruce]

I still think ||Sarah Moretti going turncoat on us was because she felt the Rogues and the Bridge settlement were letting her down after she lost her family.||

[hybrid cedar]

Fair point , Keener vanished , her Husband and Daughter died , world turned even more shite

i guess she was so riddled with grief that she went on full destruction mode

Sad , but grief really makes people do mad stuff

[hybrid cedar]

I missed the last Manhunt intel tho

Fayes insurance was the Hunter Program Candidates names , but what made Kelso go poof?

[glad spruce]

Continuing Faye's mission to use Schaeffer's security credentials to infiltrate Black Tusk's bunkers and disrupt their network.

[hybrid cedar]

Ah so she tried damaging or retrieving data from DIAMOND

[glad spruce]

More or less, yeah

[hybrid cedar]

ISACs Rogue branding mechanism needs a rework then XD

[glad spruce]

It did get a tweak early in the outbreak, so we shouldn't tempt fate

[hybrid cedar]

Do you know per chance if i replay the manhunts if i unlock new SHD toys or Collectibles?

[glad spruce]

You get the collectibles. And you do unlock skill variants for Jupiter, Hornet, Schaeffer, and Lau Manhunts

[hybrid cedar]

Thanks Hawk , youre a real sweetheart in this community 🙂

Critic is spoken fast these days , and rarely a word of praise

I like your no nonsense lore telling style 🙂

[glad spruce]

I appreciate the compliment

[glad spruce]

Manhunt comm 1, The Code Name.

||Manny Ortega starts debfiefing Bardon Schaeffer now that he's awake from his 2 months coma. Manny apologizes over what happened to Faye, with Schaeffer remarking that the Division were supposed to take him alive and conscious.||

||Manny says it was the case, but mid-way through the extraction, Schaeffer slipped into a coma, which Manny believed was a delayed reaction from a tbi, which led to Schaeffer questioning him if he wasn't aware of Dr. Summers' drugging the former BTSU commander.||

||Manny clarifies that Dr.Summers was in charge of caring for Schaeffer during the coma, so he had no reason to question Schaeffer's treatment or the doctor's credentials, until Manny himself realized he was wrong.||

[torn shoal]

can someone explain to me why the f would ||bt use a zeppelin|| ?

dont we have like real history examples of how bad it is ?

[hybrid cedar]

Cheap to build , can carry loads of cargo - and modern Zeppelins are filled with non flammable Gas

[torn shoal]

not if you plan on fighting anything

thats like the worst thing ever

also we have like better transports for everything

[hybrid cedar]

i guess it was supposed to get cover from all the striker drones , and should just bomb the Settlement to Nirvana

Wouldnt wonder if it was remote controlled too

[glad spruce]

Does it really matter why they ||would use a zeppelin? It's to send a message.||

[torn shoal]

i mean

the quadcopter is better in every way

[hybrid cedar]

But cant carry loads of settlement flattening ordnance

[torn shoal]

yeah it can

[hybrid cedar]

rockets do less damage than bombs

bombs weigh more

[torn shoal]

quadcopter wiped bt troops in liberty island

if you can wipe troops, you can wipe civilians

[hybrid cedar]

"Shit this was our last one"

OG comm

[torn shoal]

yet we got another one in last mission

[hybrid cedar]

When Keener got "killed" there was only the Marauder , with the note that the hacked one is the last one

Also Zeppelins are relatively silent

[torn shoal]

yes, and they got more after that, including last mission

also zeppelins arent very silent, they still need turbines to move

and they def arent stealthy

[hybrid cedar]

I agree that there are better options , but factoring in that supply lines exist - i wouldnt wonder that they actively decided to go on a cheap fix , rather than wasting another drone or shit

[torn shoal]

they are also snail speed

[torn shoal]

a drone would cost less, helicopter would cost less, quadcopter would cost less, etc

[hybrid cedar]

the Hindenburg had a speed of 140 KMH - with modern engines and probably electric ones the speed would be higher

[torn shoal]

they have plenty of all of thoses

[torn shoal]

the speed cant really be much higher, air resistance is insanely strong

a zeppeling is huge af and has wayyyy too much air resistance

[hybrid cedar]

The modern H2 Clipper goes 280

KMH

But its under development

[torn shoal]

its also consdering it empty, in the best conditions, etc

lets not pretend reality would go as good

really, there is hundreds of other methods that are proved to be reliable

there is no reason to do that beside hubris

[hybrid cedar]

a zeppelin is still the cheapest one , and fastest to build one

you dont need really rare components , aside of the gas filling

[torn shoal]

there is no cheap in div 2

they have everything they need

they need control and firepower, not to cheap on zeppelin

[hybrid cedar]

Factoring in NY and DC are warzones , yes cheap exists

[torn shoal]

the entire country is a warzone

bt has the upper hand, they dont need to do magic tricks to transport stuff

they have air superiority

they have planes, helicopters, etc

they arent struggling with ressources

the zepplin only has the cool factor, thats it

[hybrid cedar]

If that would be the case , NYC and DC would be bombed from the landmap and call it a day

Also - Hawks point is to send a message home

Imagine that Zeppelin would have gone successful with cover from ALL striker drones

[torn shoal]

thats the point of bt, getting nukes

[fringe gale]

being targeted for being too good at our job 🥺

[hybrid cedar]

a slow moving cloud of doom , while the swarms of drones literally saw the defenders in half

[torn shoal]

bruh a single aa missile took that down

they couldnt even survive more than 10min

[hybrid cedar]

Also with modern components , i wouldnt really see it as impossible to make a blast proof Zeppelin

The Hindenburgs legacy solely derives from the fact that it used waxed canvas and Hydrogen

Hydrogen is extremely flammable

[ashen jungle]

The hindenburg was also attacked by a group trying to blow it up lol.

[torn shoal]

it doesnt matter, we saw the zeppelin going down in game after barely hitting it once

there is no excuse to use it when its that fragile and useless

its fragile, slow, easy to hit, a single aa launcher can take it down

[hybrid cedar]

the excuse is , being ramshackle and cheap and fast to build with resources that are abundant in there

[torn shoal]

but its not true, they have ressources

they have air superiority, infinite number of helicopters, and so on

zeppelin bring nothing to the table

beside being a huge target to hit

[fringe gale]

intimidation probably

[hybrid cedar]

• Can carry loads and f loads of bombs and drones

[fringe gale]

not many groups possess the capabilities to swat a zepp out of the air

[torn shoal]

already told u, they got other stuff that do it better

[torn shoal]

well that would work if zeppeling werent so weak lol

[hybrid cedar]

and i already told you that its still the cheapest option to manufacture this in a whim than waiting on 300 other marauders

[torn shoal]

man, do you really wanna circle all the arguments ? they have other marauders, they have everything they need to do transport of anything

[hybrid cedar]

were running circles , and i already said that there are better options , yet it can be argued that it was a disposable asset

[torn shoal]

if its disposable why defend it with so much ressources

[hybrid cedar]

If they did , the Div were dead , so i conclude they aint infinitely powerful

[fringe gale]

weak once we shot a missile at it. most groups just have rifles. prime rikers or cleaners arent taking that thing out

LMB yeah

[hybrid cedar]

Also factoring in they get funding from BT

[torn shoal]

u know the goal isnt to kill the div ?

[torn shoal]

ok, but why not use a copter ? they do the same but faster, better, less expensive

lot of factions have missiles

[hybrid cedar]

A full blown battle heli outranks the cost of a zep by miles

[fringe gale]

well yeah

[torn shoal]

not really when heli are plenty aviable, and zeppelins arent and you need to build it from scratch

if zeppelins were easy to get/cheap/etc, we'd have a lot more of them

[hybrid cedar]

they are still in civilian use for topography , weather surveillance , radio broadcasting , comms and stuff

because - Cheap AF

[torn shoal]

you missed the part where im talking about fighting with thoses

if you dont need to fight then who cares if a single aa missile can take it down, its not relevant

its a pmc, not a ngo

[hybrid cedar]

WW2 , Battle of Dunkirchen or the Airbattle of Dover have also seen use of unmanned Zeps for aerial cover and hindrance of fighters

[torn shoal]

yeah, 80 years ago, when we didnt have technology or nukes

also not used to fight

there is a reason military doesnt it thoses now

[hybrid cedar]

Since 2021 efforts are made to revive airships for military usage

[torn shoal]

they also made effort to use wild stuff that are useless so they could sell them to military

if it aint used in action, its useless

[ashen jungle]

People also started drinking water out of a river, let's not take group votes as people being smart.

[hybrid cedar]

Youd be surprised how often Military shelves and unshelves stuff

[torn shoal]

no, i know they do, and i know also how it works on the field

there is a reason drones are used, not zeppelins

[glad spruce]

Anyways, I've transcripted the first 7 comms from last season's Manhunt

[ashen jungle]

Robert Plants lawsuits are just too much for people to handle, so: drones it is.

[hybrid cedar]

already in the Wiki ?

[glad spruce]

Been there for months

[torn shoal]

how dare you force me to read this joke with my own 2 eyes

😡

[ashen jungle]

Honestly very happy with how much that one hurt, B+ effort.

[hybrid cedar]

Anyway , Hawk made a good point , and i think neither of us will fully agree with the others opinion - while i enjoy debating and thinking about unusual stuff - i do not intend to make you mad or ruin other folks day here (Thought it be good if i say this - before some sheet turns sideways)

[torn shoal]

yeah im not here to fight xd

[hybrid cedar]

And this aint Warthunder Forum XD

[torn shoal]

cant wait for next leak tbh

[hybrid cedar]

Screw HUMINT , just set worlds Intelligence Agencies on Warthunder forums

Its baffling HOW OFTEN THAT happens there

[ashen jungle]

Regardless of how funny I may find the Warthunder stuff, we still have to abide by Rule 4, even if its someone elses game.

It's an official server, watchagonna do

[hybrid cedar]

Good point made , i say we go back to lore here 😄

[hybrid cedar]

Respectfully F you

Now i got the Badboys Themesong in my head

[torn shoal]

you put the damn song in my head now riven

[hybrid cedar]

Rivens will mindcontrol us with songs we remember

A devious AI

[ashen jungle]

Was honestly not expecting anyone to get that one.

[hybrid cedar]

I think i did , but thats only because my music taste is linked with films , divorced dad rock and death metal

[torn shoal]

also we're old

[ashen jungle]

People miss most of mine, but only because most people here aren't aware that Australia has a music scene outside of ACDC.

okay okay, lore lore time.

[hybrid cedar]

Right XD

[torn shoal]

i mean technically, our whole discussion about zeppelin was on lore

so we didnt go off that much

tho i'd love for a huge futuristic mech next time

either gundam or power ranger style

[hybrid cedar]

Im more a Battletech and 40k Fan 😄

Luv em chonky bots

[glad spruce]

I mean, we already have a ||friendly Marauder.||

[hybrid cedar]

i want a Warhound companion

with a beltfed AA12 Shotgun strapped to it

imma call him Toodles

[hybrid cedar]

Is there some notion of him being a SHD skill in the future

[glad spruce]

Not exactly

[hybrid cedar]

Would be cool , imagine youre totally getting blasted and the Marauder rains fire and brimstone upon the enemies

Well , as long youre outside

[glad spruce]

Well, I want free chicken strips, but we can't always get what we want 😛

[hybrid cedar]

Good point made , imma go and get some chicken nuggies

Im hungry af

[glad spruce]

I just realized something. You know that found footage video where ||Sarah Moretti steals a bunch of Rogue SHD Tech and gives it to Danvers?||

It's connected to that Descent comm 82 "Purple Stuff". Here's a selected section from that comm.

Theo Parnell: Where the hell did he get it?

AK: I have no idea.

TP: We haven't been really keeping an inventory.

AK: Maybe we should start.```

[tepid ibex]

In a world where resources are limited and scarce, inventory should be one of the highest priorities in the first place 😭

[solemn sentinel]

is it weird that i honestly thought Keener was voiced by Troy Baker?

[glad spruce]

Yes

[torn shoal]

yes and you should go to prison for that

[solemn sentinel]

😭

[loud pilot]

I thought he was a Brad Pitt type guy with a deeper gravelly voice but tbh I don’t really have a por for what could be keeners voice

[sleek plover]

to the ignorant jail he goes

[glad spruce]

I'm still disappointed we didn't get to see Viper, cuz I'm not convinced that she's dead.

[torn shoal]

wait until reveal of the manhunt target

and then you'll get to rename

[sudden mortar]

I didn't know the rogue psychopath was also Joel from the last of us 😂
I'm being sarcastic

[small knot]

I’m hoping she’s not dead cause I really liked her interactions with keener over the voice messages but I do think she’s dead dead and not coming back sadly

[glad spruce]

As confirmed by the Manhunt timeline menu, Y6S3 took place in October 28th

[sudden mortar]

Am I the only one who thinks that is funny that ||the Brooklyn plot about deep fakes is almost the same thing about the AI video creator that Google launched this month and all of that thing of the Hollywood actors?||

I mean I know about the ||descent program access but still||

[glad spruce]

I wouldn't be surprised if the devs were inspired by the gen-AI bullcrap

[sudden mortar]

It's just a weird timing, like if you buy the new version of the Google AI send a ||Keener photo and tell him to make a video would be almost the same thing as the plot.||

[glad spruce]

THEO PARNELL: Well, if things don't turn around soon, pretty sure Classified won't mean shit and you could do whatever you want with the tech.

MATHIAS "TRIG" SCHNEIDER: Fair enough. You really are a chaotic little fractal.```

- Y6S2 Manhunt comm 3, Simulation

[sudden mortar]

Exactly, I still don't understand how the black tusk doesn't have access to the same tech yet, especially when you notice how they are trying to make the image of being the good guys with all of thei propaganda in DC.

[torn shoal]

especially when they got hunters on their side

which have better tech than agents

[small knot]

I feel like the manhunt is gonna be that Matthew Grant guy and stop his propaganda videos and deepfakes

I just hope we get more from keener this season or let him out of the cage

Need bro to get to work

[glad spruce]

Mmm, not really. The Manhunt involves us locating and extracting a Division deep cover asset embedded within the Black Tusk

But hey, anything is possible

[small knot]

Lol atp black tusk is either all rogues or agents. Sokolova been just paying us this whole time. Black tusk background checks must suck

[glad spruce]

Finished transcripting the rest of last season's Manhunt comms.

[floral gull]

Brooklyn seemed pretty free from body bags and general cleanliness in both neighborhoods

The power of gentrification during a pandemic post apocalypse

[loud pilot]

What are you on about

[hoary lava]

Hello everyone, so I'm not gonna sugarcoat, I'm very lost within the lore right now. I played div2 when it released and came back for warlords of newyork but then dropped it for a very long time. It wasn't until I came back maybe 3-5 months ago when I got a pc and and it went on sale that I grinded and played the entire game and dlc again. I'm halfway through the battle for brooklyn and I noticed both Keener and Theo is not only alive but we seem to be working with them and using ANNA? I'm not asking for a massive paragraph explaining what happened from the end of warlords to now but if someone could recommend me where I can learn that piece of lore or if someone could briefly catch me up on the important beats. I would be HIGHLY appreciative.

[ember temple]

Just watch NGN YouTube when you have time. Has all the info

[tulip patio]

Faye's betrayal was more of a smokescreen to get inside Black Tusk inner circles where she could do more damage, she had ties to Keener and Theo through Viper all working towards same purpose. Faye also convinced Schaefer to help her. He had access to important BT locations through his rank, he planned to defect to us, in an indirect way by staging his capture, but we didn't know what they intended so it didn't go as planned. Scheffer was supposed to wake up months ago but he was drugged and kept asleep by the traitor doctor from WH. So it's all a plan to infiltrate and take down Black Tusk really. So overall we're working with rogues towards taking down Black Tusk, Keener and Theo staged their deaths to become more undercover. You will find a bit more in Brooklyn.

[glad spruce]

Bulan's summary is correct

[fresh nymph]

Wait wait wait hold, ||did Kandel confirm that our TD2 agent is the same agent from TD1? Unless shes referring to Agents as a collective which is more likely||

[wicked gorge]

Reference more than likely

[hybrid cedar]

Another thing worth noting is - the Attack on the City hall in the WONY expansion served the purpose of killing undercover hunters in the Division itself

So whatever McManus and Sokolova are planning , they plan to disrupt and frame and destroy the Division by all means , being it staged shade campaigns , subterfuge or outright TARGETED killings

[sudden mortar]

Brooklyn spoilers ||Danvers on the radio did call us Agent from DC, so maybe it's not the same.||

[fresh nymph]

True

[small knot]

Woah woah hold on I just read somewhere that it was retconned that Keener made the eclipse virus to be used as a weapon against the hunters and when he used it on castle Clinton and city hall that there were secretly hunters there. Is this true or was the thing I read entirely made up?

Cause if so then ya they’re really trying to rewrite keener into an anti hero

[glad spruce]

You heard wrong

[storm axle]

Where do all JTF ammo comes from?
I know that in states there are more guns than people so there must be even more ammo but still its kinda strange to me that they have so much of it

[glad spruce]

It was explained in Y5S3 comms that the attack on City Hall was to root out and kill the Hunters embedded there.

[small knot]

Thought so cause someone else added that in one of the descent audio logs that keener now says the virus was for “what’s yet to come” and how viper was surrounded by 5 hunters and scared to use it

[small knot]

Wait so it is true?

[glad spruce]

It's gameplay stuff.

In reality, there wouldn't be a lot of ammo crates around

[torn shoal]

also ammo isnt really hard to make

i mean the regular stuff, specific guns require specific ammo

thats why some guns and ammo are more used than others

especially the ak47

but for gameplay its vastly simplified, assault rifle ammo is one size fit all

[sick verge]

Easy to transport goods and a power house

Is it practical? No, but it is effective.

If a base has SAMs it would be useless but otherwise, a zeppelin with purple flame cannons and 3 DDP's would wreck a base or be able to hold an area.

I do get the point of why a zeppelin? Why not a helicopter or Quadcopter. Well those will just as easily get cooked by SAM's / rocket launchers unless you got division plot armor (capitol hill / theo manhunt / ||The Pier mission|| )

And its not like every faction has SAM's or rockets.

Let’s look at the ingame world for a moment. Every ingame faction except for the True Sons doesn't have access to that level of military hardware unless they got supplied by BT to begin with.

Now Let’s look at all our bases/settlements

Their all f*cked accept, ironically , for the bridge. Bc non of them have SAM's (those at the castle settlement are not SAM's, they're mortars according to ingame lines. Even the white house has 0 AA defenses. That's why BT was able to drop off a Razorback when they attacked it.

So yeah the BT zeppelin could definitely have been effective. But it would have been more effective if ||Danvers|| included flares in his safety check.

[torn shoal]

yeah but you got one thing wrong, every faction is actually supplied by bt

[sick verge]

I have yet to see Outcasts pull out the rpg

[torn shoal]

wouldnt surprise me

[sick verge]

Okay but beyond that. No faction uses that tech in bulk. Only a small group of Hyenas were given rpg's and they were killed. The rikers at the pier were also killed by the time the zeppelin would be in play. No faction even has the equipment to really hit a reinforced zeppelin hard enough to take it down

[cold bramble]

Yo the Brooklyn dlc is 🔥

[sick lantern]

there’s no currently feasible material to provide lift to a large zeppelin whilst also being resistant to small arms fire, even a rifle would poke holes in the envelope and leak gas
let alone the carl gustafs that the black tusk themselves supplied into circulation in both DC and NY besides the ones the true sons already had which realistically the civilian militias would also begin to get their hands on (or the division themselves of course)
or the P-017 rockets that the division has easy access to

Unsurprisingly, giant balloons don’t have a long lifespan when being shot at

[sick lantern]

or any minigun would probably shred the balloon

That’s besides the fact that it doesn’t really serve a purpose anyway. If you wanna deploy drones just put them on the back of a truck or something?

[torn shoal]

i mean, its division universe, basically every faction has enough to nuke every other faction at this point

[sick lantern]

instead of strapping them to a huge slow weak obvious target

[torn shoal]

even the division has rocket launchers, granted its small size

also explosives arent rare in lore, so its really not hard to send a missile basically

the zeppelin was just a "oh look its big" cinematic moment for the mission, but thats about it

its def not logical to have that in universe if you think about logistics/feasability for more than 30s

the revelation moment works good, but thats it

i wouldnt think too much about it

[sick verge]

I mean we can look at a lot of things that way to cut stories short.

Rpg's existed in the division 1. Yoink one. Goodbye blisk helo. Goodbye LMB APC. Goodbye Dragon 1.

Goodbye dark hours raid good old rocket to the plane engine at the start of the raid and we got no more Razorback to deal with.

[sick lantern]

actually there were no rocket launchers seen in div 1.

[sick verge]

The rioters used them twice a actually

[sick lantern]

you’re gonna mention lincoln tunnel, no rocket there

[sick verge]

One to hit the helicopter which we used to extract kandel

And one to blow up the garage door in that mission where we rescue Benitez. You can even see them fire it from the rooftop

[torn shoal]

yeah but most of thoses things in lore can be explained by something, usually big numbers, like helicopters can be shot down, but bt has a ton of them, so doing that doesnt stop them

the razorback you could say its new tech, unreliable, not tested, etc

[sick lantern]

there’s no rocket in madison field hospital, if there was, the chopper would’ve crashed which it didn’t
lincoln tunnel, never seen any rocket fired and i’m pretty sure i’ve looked

[torn shoal]

but zeppelins we already tested thoses, and they arent a thing anymore cause they arent good

and we didnt got an explanation to why they would use one even if its super reinforced etc

[sick lantern]

that’s the same mission where the rioters had to planet wired explosives by hand, why not just fire a rocket at the tunnel floodgate

[sick verge]

Well we did run past an unfinished zeppelin in Army Terminal besides the finished one. So who knows. Maybe they are gonna mass produce them

[torn shoal]

yeah but in that case you still need to make them superior to the rest they got, otherwise its just a huge target waiting to go down

if they had some special tech/explanation on why they became good, i'd be content

[sick lantern]

and how would the rioters have access to rocket launchers but no one else not even the LMB, and why are they never seen, used or referenced elsewhere

[torn shoal]

even if its not realistic, as long as its consistent in universe

[sick verge]

I might be wrong about the field hospital but I'm 100 on the lincoln tunnel. You can watch throught the windows and see them fire it

[sick lantern]

pics or it didn’t happen

if it did happen, plot hole i guess

[sick verge]

You got a couple hourse. It's 1 am for me rn and I'm not gonna start up div 1 atm

But I'm more then happy to get a screenshot for you later

[torn shoal]

but yeah, division has a lot of plot holes

when its not litterally plot abyss

[sick verge]

Division isn't exactly known for being realistic. This is the same game that gives characters energy shields that makes them immune to bullets, explosives, etc

[torn shoal]

realistic doesnt mean consistent

you can have wild fantasy world but consistent within its rules

the division is neither, tho its tries to be kinda both on different topic

thats why its bothering me, you're like "oh this cant happen cause of x" and then 2 seasons later it happen cause writers said "idc why not" and make up some excuse lol

like the resurection of keener and theo

[sick lantern]

even if there is i’m just gonna chalk it up to a remnant of an earlier plot draft/development stage. Div 1 has multiple weird moments like that (Cleaner informant side mission for example)
only other man portable rocket seen in the div 1 era was in the game’s first trailer
If the rioters in that mission had a rocket launcher, the entire mission falls apart and it kinda disrupts the entire continuity of Div 1. So not canon in my eyes regardless of if it’s modelled or not

[torn shoal]

so they made an excuse to justify it, now if you act accordingly, everyone can be resurected

[sick verge]

I'm more so mentioning the realisme bc that's how people are looking at the zeppelin when that thing has 3 drone plat forms and 2 giant cannons on it in a world where we got an lmg with a 1000+ round mag made out of gold which still need 150 bullets to kill 1 guy

Irl that zeppelin is toast no matter what

But in the division universe it makes everything toast

[torn shoal]

yeah

[sick verge]

Juggernaut armor irl doesn't really exist bc there is no shich armor that is capable of tanking hundreds of bullets and explosives

[sick lantern]

rather the good guys are just too stupid to take one of the many dropped Carl Gustafs at any point

[torn shoal]

i mean, it can exist, but the laws of physics says you still gonna feel it

[sick verge]

There is no drones that create shields that absorb bullets

[torn shoal]

like using a seat belt doesnt mean you can crash your car doesnt mean you wont be hurt

they just throwed realism out the windows

[sick verge]

It can't bc the only armor that would stop that much would be a literal tank

I don't think anyone can carry that weight

[torn shoal]

yeah, thats why i said you still gotta follow the low of physics

they created armor for enemies cause people complained about realism when shooting bullet sponges in div 1

now they dont really care, and they just create whatever they want and make bosses immunes with no explaination

[sick verge]

Yep

[small knot]

I hate how games like the division handle harder difficulties, instead of adding more enemies or tough mechanics they just make everything a bullet sponge

That doesn’t make it harder it just makes the game more annoying

[torn shoal]

thats why they made master difficulty

other difficulties are more like for learning curve

normal difficulty is the base where even a guy with 0 gear can drop something, and then you scale up

[sick verge]

To be fair they are only as bullet sponge as your build allows them to be

[small knot]

Fair enough but even still I hate how many games go that route for their harder difficulties

[sick verge]

We got builds capable of 1 shot headshoting the master hunters

[torn shoal]

well, its hard to have 1 difficulty for everyone

[sick verge]

That is fair

[torn shoal]

and you can only create so many different mechanics

any difficulty before heroic is just a learning setting

[small knot]

Also sorry for bringing this backup it’s just I didn’t get the most concrete answers, I got a no well actually yes

[sick verge]

Meanwhile chinese division popping out legendary missions like it's free candy

[small knot]

So did that retcon for the eclipse virus happen or no?

[sick verge]

No?

[torn shoal]

eclipse virus wasnt retcon

almost nothing was retcon

[sick verge]

Technically nothing was retconned

Technically

[small knot]

Ok cause I read somewhere that the retcon was apparently keener made the virus as his way to fight against the hunters and “prepare for what’s yet to come”

[torn shoal]

yes thats the explaination iirc

[sick verge]

That is true

[small knot]

Oh ok cool, so ya if that’s case then they are REALLY pushing the Keener anti hero agenda

[sick verge]

He used it to eliminate the hunters embedded at the hall

[small knot]

Ya That’s what I heard also which is actually cool that he was able to root out who was a hunter

[sick verge]

But yk keeners op was secret and all so he couldn't share that and that's why he sounds like some evil master mind yk how it is

[torn shoal]

i mean he wasnt going the "super evil vilain route" anyway aside from wony

[small knot]

Well that’s what we thought until we got all the good lore from descent and the manhunts especially last season with Kelso

[sick verge]

Yk what I don't understand is if this was the case why give both Hornet an Jupiter the eclipse aswell

[torn shoal]

they are part of the rogue network, they do his biding

[sick verge]

Jupiter destroyed her sample and Hornet used it for a terror attack with the outcasts

What biding?

[small knot]

Maybe he was testing them like he was us but found them to be shaky or untrustworthy?

Also if one more person that died is actually not dead and faked it, I hope it’s Viper. She seemed really cool and I wanna meet her in game properly

[torn shoal]

nah, that would mean i lose the bet with hawkster

that cant happen

[sick verge]

I also don't get why Keener who already had the equipment to fake deaths at the time. Didn't use it to fake the death of Hornet, who is basically confirmed to be his best friend and who he literally brought back from the dead once,

[torn shoal]

rivens would never let me live with that

[torn shoal]

i dont think keener has any real friends

he has followers

[small knot]

I think it’s going along the line of keeners mentality where he’s doing what needs to be no matter the cost. But again that’s just me assuming or the devs just forgot

[sick verge]

I got some bad news for you

There is actually npc dialogue from brooklyn npc's saying that they "miss Bridgette"

[small knot]

Thing is she could be alive just waiting in hiding doing work for keener that we don’t know about yet (I’m coping)

[sick verge]

He has many followers. Why get all panicing and bring him back from the dead if he's just a follower

[loud pilot]

Do you guys think the good year blimp stuff will ever be explained

[sick verge]

Yeah I see

Let me setup the white room

[small knot]

I think the three people keener was definitely the closest with were hornet, viper, and Theo

[torn shoal]

what u talking about

[loud pilot]

Final mission of bfb

[torn shoal]

bfb?

[loud pilot]

Battle for Brooklyn

[torn shoal]

whats the good year blimp

[small knot]

What needs to be explained? BT wanted a giant aircraft to bomb the bridge settlement with purple flame, what actually needs to be explained is when Theo mentioned most of the equipment is getting shipped out of state. Where is that going

[sick verge]

What do you mean. Your analogy doesn't compute

[loud pilot]

It’s a blimp or zeppelin don’t know the difference that’s sponsored and branded with tire and auto repair company good year branding

I’m using at a joke name for the bt zeppelin

[torn shoal]

ah didnt know what blimp meant

[sick verge]

3 options.

Future content
Division 3
Books or maybe the movie

Okay that is four but who cares

[torn shoal]

but idk what you need explaining tho

[loud pilot]

Had the movie even been confirmed

[sick verge]

They're working on it

[loud pilot]

How they were able to build it with anyone knowing building a blimp is a crazy amount of work and your telling me no one outside of the bt knew

That just sounds so absurd to me

[torn shoal]

a zeppelin isnt hard to make

its a big balloon

they just slapped razorback on it

[loud pilot]

One of that scale is tho with all the tech and munitions built into it

[sick verge]

Let me remind you this is the same pmc that has an army of soldiers, robots, helicopters and hovercrafts let by the literal cabal

[small knot]

3 razorbacks exactly lol

[torn shoal]

i mean they got razorback hidden, why not more ? its just a big warehouse and not hard to build

[loud pilot]

True but building close to keener the literal I know everything and have spies everywhere man didn’t know

[sick verge]

Well he has been sitting in a jail cell at the white house for a while

[small knot]

This is the same group that also had a nuclear reactor powering the whole place and Theo the man who can hack anything didn’t detect any power surges, it’s ok to miss something

[loud pilot]

If the timing based off the recent season is to be believed they built a blimp without keener or any of his spies telling him or letting him know in 2 months

[sick verge]

You don't tend to get 3 bars down there

Service is terrible

[loud pilot]

He’s been in jail for not even like a month Schaeffer has only been under for 2

Your telling me schaeffer, faye, viper and all the countless orher spies he had in the black tusk especially the high ranking ones had no idea

[sick verge]

Yes but shaeffer, Viper and Lau were Keener's insiders on the BT/Hunters

2 of them have been dead for 2 months and 1 was in a coma

[loud pilot]

Faye was killed after Schaefer and I’m pretty sure so was viper they had the time to tell him

[small knot]

Speaking of Schaffer rq, when he woke up he said he needed to talk to Faye to let her know about us and for us to not kill her, you’d think when we got to her she’d actually explain and come clean instead of yk turning into a chicken nugget

[loud pilot]

What I’m saying

[sick verge]

Pretty sure they, lore wise, died the day after shaeffer whent eepy

[torn shoal]

she couldnt say anything, there were moles in the white house listening

[loud pilot]

The timeline is def shaky but they heard Schaefer get gone and they just don’t say anything to keener?

[sick verge]

Couldn't risk blowing her cover. She had the nucleair codes on her watch. Simply saying that would have every hunter in a 100 mile radius sprinting for you

And now kelso has that watch hence the hunters being after her like dogs after a bone

[small knot]

Could’ve left us a flash drive or cryptic message for only us and manny. Idk but so many lives could’ve been saved if we didn’t beat up Schaffer so bad lol

[torn shoal]

if she was found out the entire operation would be doomed

and everyone die

[small knot]

Well she’d be safe in Brooklyn cause we mopped those hunters up quick

[sick verge]

Did you unlock the comm from this manhunts first week yet?

[loud pilot]

We retrieved him conscious but he was put in a medically induced coma

[small knot]

Wait I thought he fell into the coma on the way to the white house? Did I mishear it?

[loud pilot]

No the doctor put him under and since he had full control of Schaefer’s care no one questioned or saw the labs

[small knot]

No I was right, during transit he slipped into a coma from a TBI

[loud pilot]

All it took was a shot of adrenaline to wake him up if I read the injector kelso stuck into him right

[small knot]

He was just in a coma longer cause of the doc

[torn shoal]

the doc was the one picking him on site

[sick verge]

He did. But that was bc summers, the docter that kept him in a coma, was on the helicopter that picked up shaeffer at coney island

[small knot]

Oh ok ok ok ok im on the same page now

Also bets on who this seasons manhunt is? I’m guessing it’s either Matthew Grant or maybe even learning more about the Black Tusk AI

Given the manhunts creepy looking blue guy

[sick verge]

This was probably to avoid him being interrogated bc nat wouldn't have known of his betrayal at the time. Hence when the BT attacked the white house they tried to retrieve shaeffer who at that point nat did know he betrayed her. Those black tusk soldiers weren't there to kill him. If she wanted him dead, summers was always there

[sick verge]

This is me putting things together otherwise we just got more writing problems

[loud pilot]

I thought she only picked up Summer’s after the Manny White manhunt can’t remember her name

Mari Singh I think it was

[sick verge]

Summers wasn't part of the captured civs

Right?

[loud pilot]

Honestly, I can’t remember. I need to go back through.

[small knot]

No doesn’t look like he was

Looking at the picture non of the civilians look like the good doctor

[sick verge]

Just checked the wiki he wasn't

[small knot]

Woah wiki says Vipers status is unknown as of shades of red

THERE IS HOPE CHAT

[sick lantern]

the Black Tusk don’t have an AI

[sick lantern]

Summers has been in the game since launch I’m fairly sure

[sick verge]

Oh boy

Let me tell you about DIAMOND

[sick lantern]

I’m well aware.

[sick verge]

It is still an AI

Just not like ISAC or ANNA

But it still is an AI

[sick lantern]

No, it’s explicitly been said not to be an AI actually.

[sick verge]

D.I.A.M.O.N.D. (Digital Integrated Artificial Machine Operations Network Dynamic) is a highly advanced artificial intelligence (AI) entity available to all active B.T.S.U. equipped with an BT Tech transceiver. Accessible via the BT Network, DIAMOND serves as the critical backbone of all BTSU activities.

[small knot]

Wiki calls it an AI

Crazy that ANNA was supposed to be the BT ai but Nat got offended by ANNA and asked for one that doesn’t speak

What a nerd getting offended by an ai

[sick verge]

She's a narcassist

Ofcourse an AI would offend her

Matthew Grant might be our manhunt target. He is with Black Tusk after all. Apperently he's one of Nat's favorite people

[cold bramble]

Honestly excited to see where we go after Brooklyn dlc

[small knot]

My exact thoughts and I wanna see more about his whole deepfake operation as they showed that in the dlc missions but never covered it again

[sick verge]

I hope they don't give it the wony treatment and we just never go there again

[cold bramble]

I get the feeling we’ll be there for a while

[sick verge]

I don't wanna get my hopes up

[storm axle]

What happended to White House Lamp

[small knot]

Ya I hope Brooklyn becomes an expanding place and we do more there cause supposedly Brooklyn was keeners stronghold and he had the most influence here

[cold bramble]

Me too, is there story with the season as well or just the dlc?

[small knot]

There’s the manhunt missions to get the audio files and learn what Schaffer has to tell us given he is “the key”

[sick verge]

Besides non of the mission sites feel good for a manhunt mission. Refinary got blown up, art museum is well it's okay Ig. Army terminal also mostly destroyed equipment.

And the world missions are too small for manhunt missions

[small knot]

Nah I feel like the refinery and terminal can be used, BT scavenging what they can or trying to wipe their data center, trying to recover the reactor

[sick verge]

Grant does seem to have a close link with the cleaners

[sick verge]

In the story they tried to setup Danvers as the cleaners leader while he was secretly black tusk. He was simply ording cleaners around same as rikers.

But Grant. He speaks on their propaganda broadcast. Talking about saving humanity and saying Joe ferro was antagonised and a hero making the hard choices. He also was described as expert in filming, sfx and pyrotechnics

I think we haven’t seen the last of the cleaners

Who knows how much more of the purple flame they got lying around. They were making that stuff for a while

[full grail]

I think a big part of the brooklyn missions being offsite is that they could use them for manhunt missions without people having to own the DLC

but does anyone remember how the stranded tanker Kelso manhunt worked if you didnt own WONY?

[sick lantern]

“The only significant difference seemed to be that Diamond- the system Black Tusk used- didn’t have the added interface level of an AI handler. No ISAC counterpart, in other words. Instead, it piped data directly to users.”
Hunted page 197/198

[sick lantern]

fan ran wikis are wrong sometimes, surprising I know

[sick lantern]

on that note, see this page for conflating the BTSU with the entire Black Tusk as well.
the BTSU was the group lead by Schaeffer. the whole organisation is “Black Tusk” not “BTSU”

trustworthy wiki ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[torn shoal]

if i had to bet i'd bet you're the oine wrong, not everyone else

wouldnt be the first or the last tbh

[loud pilot]

Pop off lyfe

[sick lantern]

Imagine being so contrarian you say this in response to text lifted word for word from the page

[tepid ibex]

You’re telling me USMCGhostViking dare lie?!

[hybrid cedar]

@glad spruce
WTF did i miss that a Razorback is chilling in front of the White House

[sick lantern]

the events of the season Reign of Fire were a huge waste of time distraction to get the Sheriff out of DC so the BT could assault the White House, they stole the bioreactor and kidnapped civilians but weren’t able to recover Schaeffer

[hybrid cedar]

But we kicked their nuts for it?

[sick lantern]

well they failed their objectives overall so i guess

[hybrid cedar]

I was just bamboozled and thought - Where did we steal that

[sick lantern]

you can’t actually replay that white house section of the mission anymore so yea

[glad spruce]

Is it really a waste of time when Black Tusk stole the bioreactor and Tchernenko during the attack?

[sick lantern]

yes because neither of those were seen to be used to advance the narrative after recovering them, and the black tusk recovering them was essentially resetting the status quo back to before the division recovered them in the first place (multiple seasons of content and years irl)
that's besides the fact i was mostly referring to the massive red herrings with radiation and radiological weaponry, which had no payoff or relevancy, and misled a lot of people as to the actual events that occurred in Recruited

including you

[glad spruce]

Uh-huh

[sick lantern]

that's the hawkster "passive aggressive uh-huh" counter hitting 21

[glad spruce]

And IIRC, the whole point of St.Louis in Season 11 was Sokolova distracting us from her real goal.

Why should it be anything more than that?

[sick lantern]

because in a live service game, running on low budget with the B team devs, there's only so much space and resources for narrative content
and then they wasted a whole season's worth of content on a lame "gotcha!" moment that provides no interesting payoff, didn't deepen the world, only regressed the narrative

[glad spruce]

Regressed the narrative. Yeah, sure.

[sick lantern]

Yes, I'm sure

[sick lantern]

as I explained here

[glad spruce]

All I know is that you're one of those cinemasins-like people who like to poke holes at literally everything

[sick lantern]

And you're insufferable but I still try to engage with you in good faith, despite that you always resort to poking at someone's character when your views on the narrative are challenged

if something has clear and obvious narrative issues, pointing them out isn't being an intentionally cynical cinemasins type

I've explained this to you before. I like the franchise, so I want to see it do better.

I don't know if I should consider you a troll, a shill, or just genuinely not understanding that someone can be a fan and still criticise

[glad spruce]

Because I don't believe that your criticisms are made in good faith

[sick lantern]

Well they are, so stop accusing me of things that aren't true.

What you seriously think i would buy effing books, graphic novels, the art book and the worldbuilding book, so I can... ignore them to troll the fandom?

do you seriously, genuinely, see me looking for sources and proof and trying to use logic and reasoning applied to the progression of the narrative, and think it's because i just want to annoy people?

What's your issue?

[torn shoal]

damn you worded that better than i ever could

that youtube channel is really a shame and hurt the film industry so hard

i was fun at the beginning when it was all fun and games, but the fact that people take it seriously and movie studios follow their recommandation is truly sad

"let people enjoy things" should be told at the beginning of each of their video

[glad spruce]

I know the story doesn't explicitly say at the end, but I know the implications.

||Black Tusk wanted Amherst's printer so they could create another Green Poison to threaten the still-rebuilding settlements into submission. And given they already have the bioreactor they stole from us, they'd be the only source for the vaccines.||

||In simpler terms, Black Tusk + Bioreactor + Amherst Printer = Total control over the bioweapon and the vaccine.||

[torn shoal]

yeah i agree with that, but that leave the question of what the bunker is for

[sudden mortar]

||You know what is funny, Danvers wants to be The Mastermind character but at the same time, when he said the zeppelin was too slow and hard to turn, he should have thought of that before leaving a SAM battery on the roof, or equip flares in the zeppelin.||

[torn shoal]

like, does bt wants the virus to force others into submission, or nukes ?

or is it something else entirely

there is so many questions unanswered

[glad spruce]

I'd say they have a lot of plans just in case. If they have the nukes under their control, they'll use the bunkers as fallout shelters.

If not, well, the threat of a new Green Poison is always a good back-up plan

[glad spruce]

Arrogance and ego are a hell of a drug

[torn shoal]

yeah maybe they want multiple threats

[glad spruce]

That too

[torn shoal]

i do wonder how the story gonna end tho, cause the season system gonna end at some point, prob when div 3 comes out

and we gotta end on division 2 winning somehow, but also some threat still going around for div 3 to exist or something new entirely but you gotta explain it

[late void]

Probably something like we beat sokolova but Cal is still out there, or maybe this cabal they mentioned previously.

Or Keener turns out to be evil again.

[torn shoal]

oh no, you mean the bad guy hellbent on destroying the division after being left for dead, on becoming powerful and that has a god complex will be the bad guy ??

color me surprised

(i love how people still think keener gonna end up the good guy lol)

cant wait until they gonna say its the descent simulation and he is actually a good guy since div 1

[late void]

Just thinking he was the primary loose end left after div 1, it'd be funny if he ended up serving the same role in div 2.
Bit like Kane in the C&C games, always manages to come back.

[glad spruce]

I expect Keener will betray us after Nat and Cal is dealt with

[late void]

Agreed. I'm hoping Kelso will kill him when he does though.

[torn shoal]

ending id div 2 : we stop bt, but we come back at white house and keener escaped, stole the bioreactor, kidnapped armest, and will start producing more virus to sell to the next big pmc

[solemn sentinel]

of all the factions we have killed members off, who deserved it the most?

[torn shoal]

true sons imo

[solemn sentinel]

👀

[torn shoal]

they were military supposed to save people, not end up fighting and executing civilians

[sudden mortar]

Keener: you really thought I was trying to be the good guy agent?

[grave oak]

true sons and black tusks

[torn shoal]

bt is bad but its not the same, they just have a bigger scale

[solemn sentinel]

true tbh

[torn shoal]

true sons were supposed to protect us from everyone else

but decided that power is better and killing civilians is fun

[solemn sentinel]

true sons did also create the Outcasts by how they treated those they were ment to well take care off

is that why in universe a lot of ex US army joined up with bad guy groups or became bad guys?

[late void]

plenty of vets play this game, no need to go antagonizing them

[torn shoal]

i mean

[ashen jungle]

It's worth noting that True Sons aren't actually military.

[torn shoal]

wym ? arent they generals and stuff ?

[ashen jungle]

The salvation army calls themselves by military rank too.

They're mutineers from various factions, I'm sure some were actually in the military, but their archetype is more...how do I put this without getting angry PM's.
Their archetype is more civil military, than actual army.

[solemn sentinel]

Para Military?

[ashen jungle]

In the words of the wiki:
This powerful, well-armed group of fascist paramilitary soldiers

[torn shoal]

oh yeah i get that they arent actually army now, but they started as one ? like ridgeway was an anctual colonel ?

[solemn sentinel]

Yeah a unofficial forceorganized similarly to a military force.

[torn shoal]

and after that they recruited whatever came

[solemn sentinel]

in the national guard

[torn shoal]

yeah, but thats still army

[ashen jungle]

And ex-JTF, which by that point were mostly postmen.

the National Guard mostly died off in the initial outbreak, the ones that are left are few and far between.

In the div-universe, the closest thing to an actual military official force we have is the JTF.

[torn shoal]

yeah but its like the riker, most of thoses we fight werent in the prison, they were people recruited by thoses who escaped

[solemn sentinel]

i do wonder what happend to the acutal US military in DIV universe

[ashen jungle]

It doesn't matter if you used to be a solider and were recruited by another faction, you are not a solider, you are a mercenary.

[ashen jungle]

Dead AF.

[solemn sentinel]

due to the outbreak and mass chaos?

[ashen jungle]

Like 90% of people infected with Green Poison.

[solemn sentinel]

oof

[torn shoal]

yeah the actual military is as dead as the gov

[sick lantern]

depends on where you look(aka what the writers want or need for a certain setting)

[ashen jungle]

It's mortality rate was meant to be high.

[solemn sentinel]

huh

[sick lantern]

the Molossi from Compromised are a mostly legitimate remnant of the military

[ashen jungle]

I'm just going to reiterate this here and then step back.

[sick lantern]

but "generally dead" is an accurate descriptor overall

[torn shoal]

i mean, their goal is to become the actual military if they win

[ashen jungle]

That's not how that works.

[torn shoal]

isnt it tho ? if you control the country, you decide what the army is, you dont have to follow the old world rules

even if you're a junta

[ashen jungle]

I'm not going to ask what that means.

[torn shoal]

not a slur dw

[ashen jungle]

If I thought it was a slur, you'd have gotten a warning.

[torn shoal]

what i mean is, the legitimacy is not really something set in stone, it depends who's in power

[ashen jungle]

The problem with any world controlling plans is that you need, well, you need an underclass to do things for you.
The issue is: everyone's freaking dead.

"hey pile of corpses, go grow those crops"

[torn shoal]

yeah obviously

but it doesnt matter if the pop shrinks, they just gonna chose another pop to become thoses, even if they have to slash in their own numbers

the worst it gets, the smaller they will become tho

so, def not good to survive

[ashen jungle]

I give up.

[torn shoal]

idk, im kinda missing your point i guess :/

[solemn sentinel]

huh...

do we know who is the leader of the Cleaners after Warlords of New york?

[glad spruce]

A few.

Wright. The Lovebirds. But those guys are dead

So the current leader is Matthew Grant

[ashen jungle]

That is the least intimidating name in the history of evil factions.

[glad spruce]

Joe Ferro is not an intimidating name either. But yet, he still made an impact on the world

[ashen jungle]

Ferro kinda sounds like Ferrous, so Iron, heat and steelworks, I get it.

[solemn sentinel]

yeah cleaners were made up of normal people who decided to go "Well lets remove the virus by burning eveything!"

[glad spruce]

I think an SFX Artist who can do deepfakes is dangerous and not to be underestimated

[ashen jungle]

I mean, Kandel is a doctor who's trying to cure the Green Poison, I think subtlety is a lost art.

[solemn sentinel]

Former SFX Artist became a member of the cleaners?

[glad spruce]

Yes

It's how he managed to get in touch with Danvers.

Since Grant did a few commercials at one time for Nat.

[solemn sentinel]

huh

[small knot]

So Grant is leading the cleaners but who’s in charge of the Rikers? Or did they devolve into smaller mini factions cause it was a power vacuum?

[glad spruce]

"The Rat Queen" aka ||Sarah Moretti.||

So what's the policy on story spoilers? Do we keep them tagged for like a whole month?

[ashen jungle]

You can highlight text on discord, and then hover over it, and it'll give you an option to perform special formatting on it.
If marking something as a spoiler is that much of a hassle for you.

[small knot]

Feel like there’s another vaccum now cause of her capture

[hybrid cedar]

Same with Larae Barrett - like outlaw and Guns

SHOOOOOOT : THE RIKERS ARE LIKE A BIKER CHAPTER HOW DID I OVERSEE THAT FOR SO LONG

[sick lantern]

I wouldn't say that

considering the lack of bikes, for one

[ashen jungle]

I can see the connection, outlaws and criminals in general.

Hyenas are "wild dogs", etc.

[sick lantern]

I think outlaw bikers have a sort of delusion of grandeur and brotherhood that the rikers don't pretend to have
the average biker gang is also probably more racist

[ashen jungle]

Larae absolutely had that delusion, remember her rant back in div1.

granted: most Biker gangs like meth more, but Hyenas have Spice, so it would clash in styles.

None of the comparisons with the Factions are a 1-to-1, but that helps things feel more fresh.

[hybrid cedar]

Hyenas remind me on a Narco gang

cause the anims for the standard shooter look a lot like your typical sicario moveset

also , theyre crafty bastards

[ashen jungle]

They're also big Frank Herbert fans.

[glad spruce]

They're Hyenas, I doubt they've read Dune, much less any book at all 😄

[small knot]

Rikers are Sons of Anarchy and the hyenas are just the kids in high school who thought it was cool to be loud and annoying

[ashen jungle]

I was more making a joke about their particular drug of choice :p

I just choose to believe that they all really love Fatboy Slim.

[torn shoal]

dont we all love fatboy slim ?

i know i used to back then

[ashen jungle]

I'm going to assume that people don't get the joke and just move along.

[torn shoal]

oh no i do, same as for the zeppelin

but i actually listened a lot to that music back in the day lol

[tawdry grail]

Can anyone explain how everyone died in TD2? Did everyone die within the first few weeks of the virus outbreak?

[glad spruce]

Okay, first off. Not every one died.

The virus was meant to be 90% mortality rate.

Second, many people survived the outbreak by creating settlements, or being asymptomatic, and so on

[torn shoal]

lot of people have died in the months between div 1 and 2, because the virus spread out world wide, not everyone tho

[tawdry grail]

I see, so where the highways are jam packed with abandoned cars, do we have any idea what happened on evacuation routes or what happeend to the people fleeing? Wouldn't it have been better for everyone to stay home instead?

[torn shoal]

same as every other catastrophy, evacuation routes are full, people are in panic, etc
people fleeing just made things worse, as it made the virus spread faster
also staying at home doesnt really help, if anyone in your family is infected you're next, and people still need to go out to find food, water, etc

and if you play div1, you know why people couldnt do that, factions roamed the streets and killed anyone that didnt belong to their faction

the green poison has a 90+% mortality rate, so being infected basically is a death sentence to you and anyone you come in contact with in the few days after being infected

in div 2 the poison isnt really that much of a problem anymore, even if it still exist, cause the people at risk are already dead for most of them

there is a few months between div 1 and the start of the pandemic, and div 2 when society already crumbled

[tawdry grail]

I see. I didn't finish playing DIV 1 but I've seen factions happened, but it's interesting to me that we don't see a lot of people standing up in communities against these people/factions, not that it didn't happen.

But where would people even be evacuating to if everyone's sick?

[torn shoal]

to places with community support

like settlements

you cant live alone forever especially vs factions roaming

[tawdry grail]

Well with the amount of cars left behind, it seemed like settlements would've been overcrowded and infected by the masses of people fleeing during that time

[tawdry grail]

Of course... but I just mean in the beginning stages

[torn shoal]

beginning stages are over

beginning stages was div 1

[tawdry grail]

I know, I'm just speaking about it, like everyone fleeing in the beginning and such.

I mean we see DC and how bad it's traffic was

[torn shoal]

mortality rate of the virus made sure settlements cant really be overcrowded

[torn shoal]

thats because the outbreak started in dc, people fleed the region to not get infected

[tawdry grail]

I see, I thought most people got sick at the same time but that makes sense.

[torn shoal]

pandemics dont start worldwide isntantly, there a patient 0, then it spread withing the city, then country, then the world, cause people travel

[tawdry grail]

I forgot, he didn't spread the disease through money first, right? It got on money though by patient 0 basically

Well the person who released it. Kind of unfortunate he didn't get the death he deserved imo

[sick lantern]

he very much did, hence the name "Green Poison" or "Dollar Flu"

[torn shoal]

he did spread it with money, thats why its called green poison, on a big commercial day

[torn shoal]

i dont remember what happened to the guy, but from what we know, he was a fanatic ready to die from the virus anyway

[sick lantern]

He allowed himself to be exposed to his creation, not caring if he lived or died
and he died

[ornate gull]

https://youtu.be/oMOf2P83g5g?si=lc9WDR3tdylcUfKJ

[storm crystal]

Man took a break from Division for some month and coming back and doing some of the manhunts and listening to the coms... and somehow it makes me really sick now hearing keener getting transformed into some good neighbour type of guy ... "gramps keener" or what

This guy was on the way becoming a full blown egomaniac psycho who wanted to fire missles on NYC killing everone there ...not to mention how many Division Agents he killed and even trying to kill us

[hybrid cedar]

Aw this is gonna be fun ,

while in Winter , the Dollar Flu ravaged America (Div 1) and to a point where gangs roamed the street , in the course of the evolving outbreak to a full blown Pandemic , the Government effectively lost control.

Then , the Virus burned somewhat out due to the diminishing populace and overall existing makeshift sanitizers. Although the Outbreak is pretty much over , the latent danger of a rerun remains and the dollar flu remains a looming threat - especially considering asymptomatic carriers (Emeline Shaw)

[torn shoal]

Promotion is not allowed

[late void]

@cedar lance as lyfe mentioned, we do not allow promotion of your own content channels on this server.

[cold bramble]

Do we have an idea where Kelso went?

[hybrid cedar]

Probably on the same mission that Lau attempted

Lau tried to infiltrate BT to persuade Schaeffer and disrupt their ops

but i guess Kelso also is also a primetime target now for hostile forces , moreso Black Tusk

[cedar lance]

really then how come KanzakiMayao promote a youtube video here? huh?

[torn shoal]

its not self promotion, btw you're allowed to link to video or other stuff if its relevant, not just to say "hey guys i have a channel go subscribe"

i suggest you read the rules before you post

cause even if promotion was allowed, you would still be in the wrong channel

[untold harbor]

Do we have any idea why the Hunters went rouge on us and kills any agent in sight?

[torn shoal]

its explained on several manhunt, they didnt go rogue, their job is to kill agents that dont follow mcmanus

[untold harbor]

Ah, yeah I just asked because I’m trying to get into the mind of a hunter before I kill and collect the mask of the ones in DC

From a video I saw the hunters are also apart of the Homeland Security and I don’t know if that is true or not

[glad spruce]

It's true.

Calvin McManus is the Secretary of Homeland Security

[untold harbor]

Ah well that’s good to know, do we know any reason why he formed the hunters? Was it for power, fear, money or something else?

[torn shoal]

they were supposed to be a safeguard if agents turned rogue and do bad stuff

so when reports of rogues came in div 1, hunters were dispatched

then mcmanus decided all agents were rogue in his mind so they are all a target

cause now he wants bt in power, and agents are fighting bt

[untold harbor]

I see, so McManus decided he wanted to gain power in a fearful force that will display their victims as a warning not to tread on them or else.

[torn shoal]

well lot of people died in gov including several presidents so who's actually in charge is not really consistent + ellis betraying division and joining bt, he just wants to be on the winning team, and so far the division isnt really winning much beside some fights

bt control a lot of the country

they have the numbers, the weapons, the tech, now allied with true sons, so mcmanus adding hunters is just icing on the cake

[sick lantern]

He intentionally allowed the outbreak to begin by overseeing the NSA operation on Amherst and preventing action against him. As he was collaborating with Sokolova before the outbreak and still is, the Hunters are his private force to assist the hostile takeover of the country
So, power is the answer

[sick lantern]

That's not true

[untold harbor]

No, hold on it’s true to an extent. bt literally has control over one of the most important places in America and could easily storm the White House and take everything once and for all when SHD agents dwindle down

[sick lantern]

If it's so easy, then how did they fail on the single time they attempted it

[torn shoal]

they didnt, they killed lewis, took the biolab for example

also they dont need the white house, they need the ark

who cares about holding an empty building

the power doesnt come from the white pillars at the front

[sick lantern]

The majority of their forces are confined to the east coast where they face continual resistance from the Division. Their objective was to take over the city and they failed, and are now in an extended conflict where they're trying to beat the Division at their own game and failing.
They have been shown to have one other major stronghold in Alberquque, New Mexico, which they lost in a combined assault from the SHD and multiple factions

[torn shoal]

also mcmanus didnt spread the virus on purpose, but by negligence

[sick lantern]

The Black Tusk have failed at every attempt to gain territory

[sick lantern]

Factually untrue as shown in the Broken Dawn novel
unless someone who makes death threats against whistleblowers is just "negligent" and somehow not evidently malicious

and someone who works with a russian mercenary oligarch, and creates a private army of brutal assassins, is somehow just negligent

[torn shoal]

boy do i have some news about what whistle blowers live in real life lol

people only care about their position not being threaten, and not live the consequences, they dont care if something bad happen, they only care if they arent losing anything, that doesnt mean they want bad thing to happen

[sick lantern]

^ This is not negligence.

It's malice.

[torn shoal]

malice would be knowingly letting the virus spread

[sick lantern]

Which is exactly what he did, as I just said

[torn shoal]

he didnt do that, he just underestimated the threat

which is negligence

[sick lantern]

he stood to benefit from a viral outbreak, let it happen, benefitted

[torn shoal]

idc what he benefit, he could become a king or a peasant, he still didnt do his knowingly, its the intent that matter, not the result

[sick lantern]

You're ignoring the facts of the narrative to push your own headcanon as usual

[torn shoal]

doing something out of spite or by mistake change the intent, not the result

we talk about intent here, not result

[sick lantern]

And I have just explained his obvious intent

[torn shoal]

you explained nothing, you just said "thats the result so he wanted that" while forgetting we have coms stating he severely underestimated the threat thanks to descent

you can have the same result with and without intent

result doesnt mean intent, never has, never will

he specifically said he didnt care about armest and his researchs cause he wasnt interested when people reported that

[sick lantern]

And he created his private Hunter army in advance, wanting to undermine the Division which he never wanted to be activated
How and why would he have Hunters ready, as well as an allegiance with a mercenary army, if he was never going to use them for a power play? Was it just a hobby for him?

[torn shoal]

if he had intent, he would create the virus, not let the spread and mortality rate to chance

hunters werent his private army, they were a failsafe, again you confuse intent with results

hunters were created to uphold the law and coninuity of gov

[sick lantern]

Yes because he can't just say to people's faces that he wants Amherst to succed, he needs an excuse

[torn shoal]

the fact he highjacked them doesnt mean their creation was in this goal

why would he need to say he want armest to succed ?

just create the virus, when everyone is dead you have nobody to report to

[sick lantern]

No they weren't, because that is something they have never done. They have always targeted non-rogue agents and never helped to secure the country, only undermined it
They wouldn't need to be secretly members of the SHD undermining it from within if they served a legitimate purpose.

[torn shoal]

if he wanted societal collapse, he would create it, not wait for it to happen by chance

again, you confuse result with intent

[sick lantern]

I said he WOULDN'T say that

[torn shoal]

they were created to target rogue, doesnt matter what they do now

agents were created to uphold the law, but there is no law now, will you say they werent created to uphold the law ?

[sick lantern]

I agree, but the direction of Division 2's plot since launch has been that the outbreak was predicted and masterminded, which was in contrast to Amherst's actions in Division 1. Ergo there is convenience and holes in the writing

[sick lantern]

They were never created to target rogues because that is something they have never done

[torn shoal]

thats not the plot

[sick lantern]

They have always targeted non rogue agents as part of McManus's agenda

[torn shoal]

the outbreak was just made by armest, thats it

and vitaly

[sick lantern]

Wrong, he had nothing to do with Amherst's schemes

[torn shoal]

i didnt say schemes

i said he help armest doing the virus

[sick lantern]

Yes it is. It has been the plot since launch and before that the Black Tusk were prepared for the outbreak before it occurred

[torn shoal]

no, bt was a normal pmc before the outbreak, they changed their targets after the outbreak, its shown in an echo next to white house

[sick lantern]

That's literally the same thing. Making the virus was his scheme.
I know English isn't your first language? but you're being obnoxiously pedantic

[torn shoal]

no, his scheme was wiping humans

vitaly helped him to create the virus, he wasnt aware what armest was plotting

[sick lantern]

WITH THE VIRUS

[torn shoal]

he thought he was just advancing research

[sick lantern]

Vitaly never helped Amherst create the Green Poison.

Lyfe, just please be quiet, you never know what you're talking about and present your headcanons and misinterpretations as fact

[torn shoal]

its litterally in the wiki

While they worked together directly for only a year

you talk a lot about headcanon when you refuse litteral facts as evidence

and then saying "yeah but writers are bad"

[sick lantern]

The World of The Division page 121
"The group's current configuration is clearly recruited in direct response to the bioterror attack last December. Black Tusk units and equipment began shipping back to the US in the very early hours of the outbreak- indeed, before the full extent of the crisis was even known, which suggests the disturbing possibility of foreknowledge."

[torn shoal]

so, exactly what i said

[sick lantern]

the wiki is wrong sometimes. the wiki lists Schaeffer on the list of rogue agents.
anyone can edit those pages and it doesn't have Wikipedia- level oversight. not everything on the wiki is true

[torn shoal]

they changed after the outbreak

[sick lantern]

foreknowledge

prior knowledge

[torn shoal]

oh yeah, everything is wrong except you somehow xd

[sick lantern]

knowledge of an event before it happens

not knowledge in response to an event

[torn shoal]

"suggest" does a heavy lifting here for something that happen AFTER the outbreak

but i guess "maybe they knew" is your gotcha moment of saying "they knew and its proven"

talk about headcanon lol

but i guess litteral coms contradicting you are also my headcanon somehow xd

[sick lantern]

the Black Tusk who were working with the corrupt politician who oversaw the operation that lead to the start of the outbreak, they TOTALLY didn't know what was going on

[torn shoal]

you mean the echo that take place after the outbreak ?

or is this your headcanon again ?

[sick lantern]

you're fixating on the word "suggests" and using it against literally every other piece of evidence in the franchise

[torn shoal]

im fixating on actual proof like : coms that contradict your entire point

[sick lantern]

after the outbreak began in new york but before the rest of world was as heavily affected. and the black tusk were saying "we know it'll be heavily affected and we're ready for our scheme"

[torn shoal]

so, you know, AFTER the outbreak

[sick lantern]

Stop being pedantic

you literally ignored the majority of that sentence

[torn shoal]

if bt engineered the outbreak, you need to prove it, not just suggest it

[sick lantern]

talk about headcanon xxxxddddd

[torn shoal]

until then its your headcanon

[sick lantern]

^

[torn shoal]

suggestions arent proof

people can read the situation and know what to do fast, doesnt mean they created the situation

[sick lantern]

Give me one good reason for the Hunters to exist as they do if they're "just created for rogues" then

[torn shoal]

created for rogues is a good reason, if agents can go rogues and fk up everything, you need a safeguard

[sick lantern]

if McManus didn't start the outbreak intentionally for power, then that just means he pivoted immediately to grabbing power as soon as the outbreak started, and was just conveniently already friends with a russian mercenary army

[sick lantern]

misunderstand my sentence

[torn shoal]

you underestimate how prepared people in thoses positions are when its about changing allegiance

[sick lantern]

If the Hunters were made for rogues, why are they so eager to hunt non rogues, why chop off hands and all the other brutality, why have them be undercover division agents instead of a seperate unit

[torn shoal]

misunderstand what ?

i explained that already : just cause you have intent, doesnt mean the result will follow

they were created with a goal in mind, they were used for something else entirely

[sick lantern]

so then why:

do they act like they weren't created for hunting rogues

[torn shoal]

idk whats difficult to understand, sometimes i have a screwdriver, its designed to screwdrive things, and yet sometimes i use it as a hammer cause idc why not

[sick lantern]

if hunters are created as the counter to rogues, and rogues are division agents, and hunters are division agents, what stops a hunter from going rogue

[torn shoal]

thats your first good question in 20min

[sick lantern]

it's what I've been saying the whole time jacka55. They're not anti-rogues because nothing about them is made to be anti rogue

[torn shoal]

and the answer is : you can only create so many failsafe for the failsafes, otherwise you'd go indefinitely circular

if you have failsafe for a failsafe for a failsafe, whats the next failsafe ?

[sick lantern]

nothing about mcmanus is anti rogue because he is a rogue actor

[torn shoal]

mcmanus doesnt see himself as rogue, and he is anti rogue as seen with the coms SEVERAL times

[sick lantern]

you're jumping through so many hoops to portray mcmanus as this opportunist instead of someone who planned all this

[sick lantern]

the political manipulator might lie to portray himself as correct, who knew

[torn shoal]

im jumping into no hoops, just using the coms we have, while you're only using the headcanon in your head about his intent that you have 0 proof of, beside the word "maybe"

like

[sick lantern]

no, the proof is every piece of plot connected to the matter

[torn shoal]

mcmanus is opportunistic, like everyone

he aint the mastermind you think he is

you just connect dots that arent connected

at this point, why not pretend nat is the one creating the virus

and that armest obey her orders

why not, after all, he is a fanatic, she has the means

[sick lantern]

so why do the hunters exist as they do
why death threat warren merchant
why be friends with a russian mercenary army
he's just a nice guy who did all these things as normal acts? and then suddenly became an opportunist to secure power?

[torn shoal]

if you wanna go full conspirationnist, at least go all the way

[sick lantern]

That's absurdly contrived

you are going against everything he's done and refusing to recognise a connection to portray him as better than he is

you're believing the coup leader when he says he did no wrong

[torn shoal]

bro, you're the one giving contrived scenarios that arent proven

while the opposite is proven

but in your headcanon, "writers are bad lol"

[sick lantern]

This has nothing to do with the quality of the writing jesus shut up

[torn shoal]

nothing proves what you're saying, its actively disproven by several coms

[sick lantern]

this has to do with the plot threads that are presented multiple times throughout the franchise

[torn shoal]

so whats the reason coms say the opposite

[sick lantern]

Lyfe you misinterpret the plot of the game, and the logic of real life, all the time. You're wrong about what the comms say

[torn shoal]

coms ingame : mcmanus is incompetent and opportunistic
you : yeah but what if he was a mastermind actually

thats litterally what headcanon is

[sick lantern]

No, it's not

[torn shoal]

at some point you gotta admit the facts contradict you

[sick lantern]

No, they don't, you're just ignoring the facts as you always do

[torn shoal]

you brought no fact

just the "maybe"

you're contradicted by the wiki, the coms, and the writers as a whole

even the echos