division-universe

[ashen jungle]

I genuinely managed to convince someone I was a bot, and I just couldn't waste the naming convention.

[mortal flame]

😦

No fan Fics? sad face

The two things people are scared of…

[ashen jungle]

People who won't date them are terrifying, it's true.

[glad spruce]

Manhunt comm 3, titled Mission.

||Aaron Keener and Bridgette Douglas discuss recruiting Faye Lau for her mission to kill President Andrew Ellis. Douglas admits that Faye can refuse and will understand if she doesn’t want to do it. Keener mentions that Faye’s mission is less extreme than what she has already done (Going rogue to infiltrate Black Tusk). Douglas also mentions that the mission will involve a lot of roleplaying and an uncomfortable outfit, where Keener remarks that’s nothing Faye hasn’t done before. And lastly, Douglas mentions Faye will have to talk to President Ellis, be respectful, and make him feel like the most important person in the world.||

||Keener admits that’s a challenge, as Ellis is an idiot, which Douglas agrees. Regardless, Ellis is the president and until he resigns, names his successor or dies, he’s the only one with access and authority for “The Ark Protocol”.||

||Douglas prefers naming it The Football, since she thinks the clandestine naming stuff is hard to follow and annoying.||

[mortal flame]

So a LARPing session gone terribly wrong lol

[torn shoal]

so, i was right, ||ellis still had authority as president and killing him was necessary, not arresting him||

[ashen jungle]

||IIRC "the football" is keyed to the president's DNA (IIRC a palm print and etc),|| so you could probably still just arrest himand use some "persuasion" to get it done.

[torn shoal]

||yeah but still, thats getting you going rogue isntantly cause its treason||

thats how fked the law is, very VERY far from moral

[mortal flame]

Is it Treason though if the president allied himself with an outside PMC trying to make a New World Order out of the crumbling infrastructure of the current state of the US even before the Green Poison was released?” And….. knew the BT would frame the former President/Vice President as suicides/dying from the Poison somehow?

if anything, I think Speaker of the House and the Homeland Security Secretary were already thoroughly corrupted even before Amherst even thought about releasing the Green Poison on that particular Black Friday

And then there’s the Cabal… and we all know what kind of war we’re in for with the Cabal this “secret” group of continuation of government protocols… black budgets and under the table transactions lol

Lastly… ||I mean if the BT have the football for leverage against the remaining government, what is the point of “Saving What Remains?” If we get nuked to oblivion||

[glad spruce]

Sure, but Ellis ||being killed was a positive. And without a successor they have in the cards, it's gonna be hard for them take control of "the football||

[mortal flame]

They’ll just follow regular procedure and nominate the next in line….. and the next in line is…..drumroll please

psst not Cal that’s for sure lol

I cant believe no one’s made a video about what I just said above honestly…. It’s like no one wants to post something that’s too close to real life.

[torn shoal]

it is treason, cause the law was made by people in power that want to keep power, not to save the people

whatever the president do : its fine by law

[mortal flame]

But our mission statement clearly states

[torn shoal]

ou mission doesnt say we can contest the president

president power > division power

[mortal flame]

SHD: we Save What Remains of the US government. And all hail the treasonous President?!

[torn shoal]

its not treason

president is allowed to do anything he wants by law

[mortal flame]

It’s like the galaxies after they kept Emperor Palps in power for over 30 years

[torn shoal]

treason is commodified in law, its not just "president bad"

you cant say someone is a traitor out of thin air

and president is immune to law

because law says so

[mortal flame]

In the Division, there is no checks and balances anymore. No Congress, No Judicial Branch…… Justice is not “served”, merely illusion

[torn shoal]

yes, hence why president has to die and not be arrested, justice doesnt exist anymore, and isac is limited by its programming that says = obey the president

[mortal flame]

For Context: I prefer listening to Maul’s rant about Darth Sidious from Clone Wars Finale

Exactly

[torn shoal]

havent seen clone wars yet

[mortal flame]

Judge Jury and Executioners…. We are Judge Dredds lol

[torn shoal]

but yes, palpatine was legitimate emperor according to senate's law

[mortal flame]

Carrying around miniguns in our back pockets lol

[torn shoal]

yeah, thats what we call "not so democratic country"

[mortal flame]

facepalm you’re not seeing the bigger Star Wars problem here….. cracks fingers here we go

[mortal flame]

No, this is America

[ashen jungle]

The AD comic was an analogy of Thatcher era Britain, not so much just a "we are cops above the law" thing.

[mortal flame]

[torn shoal]

oh i see the problem, its always the same : people think they are immune to bad stuff happenning

[mortal flame]

[torn shoal]

and current events show how bad it can go

[mortal flame]

you don’t say….. hey at least I can finally buy some cheap stocks in the stock market

[ashen jungle]

Remember to leave IRL politics out of it where you can, that's just a bruising fight all-round.

[torn shoal]

yeah its kinda sad

[mortal flame]

copy that… I was merely putting the suggestion and similarities to Star Wars

I thought Maul in the finale was right

misguided words/rant he had… but he was mostly right

[torn shoal]

i prefer the acolyte ending

with JASON

[ashen jungle]

Damn it, Sean.

wait, wrong Jason.

[mortal flame]

Sorry… we don’t talk about the Acolyte here

[ashen jungle]

Yep, because this is the Div lore chat.

[mortal flame]

[torn shoal]

i mean we can still compare to other fantasy sotries

[ashen jungle]

If you're going to stretch out a comparison, can we try for something more intelligent than Evil people have red swords, good guys have blue?

[torn shoal]

thats why im talking about the acolyte, it showed its not that black and white

[ashen jungle]

I want to bring up a comparison to the Old Republic storyline here, but I'll resist.

I'll just say that it's nothing new to that particular series.

[winged reef]

Spoilers for the division hunted

||I’ve gotta say I think that the Hunter in hunted had one of the most brutal deaths in the division||

[mortal flame]

No… those random agents coming upon the crashed plane did

and those Rogues too (the guy thought a plastic buttock and a wooden chair would be enough to stop a Hunter) lol

[glad spruce]

||It felt cathartic, IMO||

[mortal flame]

Ironic that it was ||the agent in charge of the agent that went against orders to not follow the main character||

[glad spruce]

Sure, but I think it also meant ||that Hunters are Division agents who are embedded within the organization, as watchdogs and the actual agents are their prey||

[mortal flame]

And that right there is why we need checks and balances…. even for those guys. Good thing we have ||the Hunter list now||…. Ooops spoilers

[torn shoal]

what check and balances lmao

there is no check or balance at all in div 2

[coral flume]

In fact, it has been mentioned on multiple occasions that there is no chain of command (Kelso says this to Manny and Manny mentions it to Ellis after being rescued but Ellis dismisses it saying that the briefcase that the True Sons had in the Capitol was more important), Ellis was appointed before the chain of command was destroyed and if we assume that the rest of the chain of command, or personnel with authorization to remove Ellis, were on Air Force One, it can be said that there is no one who can be appointed president.

[mortal flame]

But Elections

[glad spruce]

I mean, given the basic premise of the franchise, the COVID pandemic made it even more relevant than ever lol

[mortal flame]

Merely coincidence honestly

[winged reef]

It’s a good idea in theory, but the fact that || the hunters are under the control of McManus and working with the black tusk is a problem. Yes technically the division is a rogue agency since the president was working with the black tusk, but they are still on mission. Their mission is to save and protect what remains, the black tusk are committing crimes on the civilians, therefore it’s within the mission to fight them.||

[mortal flame]

but then was Operation Dark Winter actually a IRL operation done in the Midwest after/before 9/11?

[winged reef]

Before

[winged reef]

|| yes I agree that the hunters were a necessary creation but there should have been a agency created within the shd kind of like military police to oversee the agents, and the hunters should have been assigned to them||

[mortal flame]

But the Hunters are the MPs

They’re the “third wave”

[coral flume]

in Grand Washington Hotel you can read SHAPING THE FUTURE OF WARFARE: HOW PRIVATE SECTORS BUSINESS LEADS TO GREATER OUTCOMES, were Andrew Ellis, Charles Douglas and Charles Bliss were the sponsors was, guest who?, D&H and The LMB...

[winged reef]

They aren’t mp’s, their assassins that actively work against the directives of the division

[mortal flame]

Loyalist first and second wave agents that we fought along side with for months….. that are authorized to stop all actual good agents from spreading word of the existence of an working antiviral for the whole country

Literally Sleeper agents’ sleeper agents

[winged reef]

?

[mortal flame]

Agent Johnson was a perfectly fine second wave agent… even got promoted as the Sniper class in all the Div 2 promotion…. ||Became the Recruiter Hunter that he himself was actually recruited for that position…. And then as you said in the Hunted book. The worse scenario for a first wave agent turned crazed Hunter||

[winged reef]

Also the fact that ||the hunters are activated by and given directions from McManus || is itself a problem. Agents are only supposed to be activated by the president, so McManus has no right to dictate their actions

[mortal flame]

But ||Ellis and McManus technically were working together since they bit report to BT Natalia||

[winged reef]

|| From what I understood from hunted that Hunter was working for the black tusk most likely under McManus’s orders, to hunt down Maria and eliminate her so she wouldn’t be able to delete the countermeasure ||

[winged reef]

|| Ellis is dead, day killed him ||

[coral flume]

No, even if Ellis or Sokolova declare The Division traitors, a presidential edict to Congress is needed to revoke Directive 51, since that directive was legitimately approved by Congress and Ellis' legitimacy is not enough to revoke a directive imposed by a previous president.
Basically, Ellis is president on paper and apparently legitimizes the Black Fangs, but the reality is that without a Congress or a chain of command to delegate powers to, he can't do anything.

[mortal flame]

But technically ||McManus reached out to some agents like Johnson even after the events of the main DC campaign to become Hunters… so that’s confusing to me||

I mean as far as anyone in the Division universe is concerned, there is no one left alive even at any level of government

Maybe Manhunt mission ending at NORAD HQ perhaps? Or in Div 3? lol

[winged reef]

|| the Hunter program was created by McManus before the outbreak, most of the hunters were given that job before being activated ||

[mortal flame]

Which still goes back to some of the points I’ve made

[winged reef]

|| to my understanding he should not have been able to create the hunters in the first place, unless they were in the original directive or if the president ordered them to be created before the outbreak, not to mention something is majorly wrong with him being able to give them orders ||

[mortal flame]

Remember, SHD is literally under Homeland Security’s jurisdiction

It’s in the name

[winged reef]

Which was the whole point, the agents were supposed to be autonomous, with only Isac having the option to judge them rogue.

[winged reef]

Yes but they only answer to the president and Isac

But above all they uphold the mission

[mortal flame]

But look who created ISAC and technically ANNA and the Diamond AIs

[ashen jungle]

||||Is anyone else alive for McManus to answer to at this point? I think the current systems in place are probably made somewhat redundant when all your bosses are corpses. ||

[winged reef]

In my eyes McManus is a rogue actor

[winged reef]

Ortiz robotics if I remember correctly

[mortal flame]

That’s what I’m saying…. Though McManus is literally just a puppet “president” for Natalia so…..

[ashen jungle]

||Yeah, it doesn't matter what your personal opinion on the matter is, I'm asking if anyone is alive for him to answer to. ||

[winged reef]

McManus isn’t the president tho

[mortal flame]

I couldn’t think of another word to describe him lol

[winged reef]

To my knowledge rn we don’t know

Tho that doesn’t give him free rain over the shd

[ashen jungle]

Without that particular knowledge, any speculation on the matter is purely that: speculation.
So trying to confirm any point is potentially building a castle on sand.

[mortal flame]

Sorry off topic, but it would be funny to see Abstergo Industries pop up in a random DC office crossover since Shadows is coming out….. AC crossover would be hilarious even a Ghost Recon crossover would be awesome at this point

[ashen jungle]

Going purely by the trailer, I think it's safe to say that he'll be a factor in this Season, so I guess we'll know something by the Master Mission.

[winged reef]

The only thing we really know for sure is the only people the agents were designed to answer to are the president and Isac.

[ashen jungle]

If he just wakes up then immediately has a heart-attack, I win $20.

[mortal flame]

If Ubisoft gives us the full Directive 51 documents for us to glaze over, I think we could find out everything lol

[winged reef]

Yeah, tho making it too easy on us wouldn’t be very fun

[sick lantern]

we need legaleagle to analyse the division franchise fr

[mortal flame]

It’s been 8 years… they’re really going to make us wait another 3 years?

[ashen jungle]

Oh god that weirdo.

[winged reef]

Probably

[mortal flame]

[sick lantern]

it actually isn’t, it’s just a legal technicality

[winged reef]

I’m mean they already announced division 3 was in the works, but honestly I’m glad for how long they’ve been continuing division 2’s story

[mortal flame]

Last thing before I go….. NGN is one of the best sources for Division Lore, even partially acknowledged by Division’s Dev team for his work

[winged reef]

Tho it would have been nice to spend a little more time in division 1 exploring the early days of the outbreak

[winged reef]

I listen to him regularly

[mortal flame]

That’s what the mobile game is for

[winged reef]

😭

[mortal flame]

He’s like our Rick Valassi

[ashen jungle]

I'm sure I've seen sponsored content there before, so that's about as gowing of an endorsement as you can get.

[ashen jungle]

Nah that's MattPat.

[winged reef]

I’m gonna be trying to look at echo’s at 3 fps 😭

[mortal flame]

Get ready to explore NY again, and pay for gear that we already grinded for in the OG Div 1 lol

[ashen jungle]

That took longer than I thought.

[mortal flame]

?

[coral flume]

Agents are not autonomous, they have a cell-based structure, when a wave is activated a leader and a coordinator are designated and agents that follow the leader's orders (in the second wave it is Chang who is relieved by Law in the events that start the first game), at the beginning of the second game our leader is Sanders, who we would later meet in Pentagon and would be our coordinator, and in Washington the Coordinator is Many Ortega, both leader and coordinators are assigned by the SHD, in theory although we play individually, the truth is that the missions are carried out in groups of 4 agents (a cell with a leader and 3 more agents)

[mortal flame]

Wait, there’s a SHD Commander Sanders? Like Kentucky Sanders? lol

[winged reef]

Even then they are free to choose their own mission, no individual in a cell is a leader

Books confirmed that

[ashen jungle]

Sanders is the Agent that you meet in the tutorial, IIRC

And yeah, she doesn't show up again until the Pentagon stuff.

If Sanders is our leader, I vote we hold an election. She didn't even show up when the call went out.

[mortal flame]

Ohhhhh our buddy we left to fight two Hydroboats with one P416 that Sanders

[ashen jungle]

Pre-nerf p416, so she had a chance.

[mortal flame]

No remember she sent us to see what was going on in DC… ||How she got to DC and was embedded in the random room spying on BT at the Pentagon before we learned about what the BT were doing there is beyond my understanding||…..

[ashen jungle]

I know she sent us along, only she absolutely did not send us, we answered the emergency call.

Sanders should've been marked as Rogue.

[mortal flame]

Unless ||she’s a Hunter and she’s going to kill our Div 2 agent|| that’s why we don’t see our canonically Div 1 or Div 2 agent going/leading up to Div 3 lol

[ashen jungle]

Technically speaking, we could be our div1 Agent, when they added in the div1 facial customisation options.

[glad spruce]

Are we gonna mark any agent we don't like as Rogue?

[mortal flame]

heh

[ashen jungle]

She ignored direct orders to come save the Node, if that isn't Rogue worthy, I don't know what is.

One Agent was marked as Rogue for taking asprin from a bombed out chemist.

[mortal flame]

Are we “on mission” though? agents going Rogue in DZs for that one gold gun that they’re just going to turn into spare parts

[glad spruce]

That's because ISAC is a boy scout and binary in his morality

[ashen jungle]

I believe the DZ is considered something of a "grey zone", ISAC even says so at the entrance to a DZ.

[mortal flame]

But ISAC was refined/updated from that kind of hilariously dark instance

I love Boy Scout ISAC

[glad spruce]

I love ANNA more

[ashen jungle]

When was ISAC updated from the asprin days?

Because by the time of the campaign, it still didn't know what the words "get me outta here" meant.

Not even a joke, with how bad ISAC is at metaphors, it's no wonder its GPS ingame sucks so much.

[mortal flame]

Maybe one day Cortana can show him the error of his ways lol

[ashen jungle]

It's important to remember that ISAC is not a true AI, there is no sense of self there.

It's the equivalent of asking Cleverbot the meaning of life.

[mortal flame]

No wonder Hawk likes ANNA so much

[glad spruce]

When the first wave was activated.

[glad spruce]

She's funny.

[ashen jungle]

So an Agent was turned Rogue before they were activated?

[mortal flame]

Oh no. Here we go again

I’m out

[ashen jungle]

The "first wave" was the initial activation at the NYC outbreak, if ISAC was updated to be more intelligent before that, then how was it before?

[mortal flame]

Her own turrets turned on the agent once she was marked as Rogue for taking the Asprin

[glad spruce]

No. An Agent was marked Rogue when she went to the drug store without using a key.

The update happened during the initial outbreak

[ashen jungle]

Yes, I asked when was ISAC updated to fix that/

[mortal flame]

Back when there was still a sense of normalcy

[ashen jungle]

Here.

[mortal flame]

Before the massacre of Keener’s squad

And the DZ was built

[ashen jungle]

I'm asking Hawk a question directly.

[coral flume]

He did not ignore the order, he had two agents under his command, one incapacitated and the other recently activated, his decision to save the shelter while sending an agent to Washington falls within what ISAC considers following orders, other agents like Law ignored the order without any real reason and yet were not classified as rogue Agent, but it is also because ISAC was not functioning at any level.

[ashen jungle]

Her order.

[mortal flame]

Uh…… ok

[ashen jungle]

Also, it's Lau. Faye Lau. Agent Lau if you're fancy.

[coral flume]

true

[ashen jungle]

Are you just replying to random messages?

[mortal flame]

And Sanders is a woman btw I believe…

[ashen jungle]

She is, yes.

And for the record; ISAC was still working at a nearby level, as stated in the campaign itself.

[mortal flame]

I got confused thinking there was actually a Colonel Sanders in Division lore lol

[coral flume]

sorry Englis isn't my main lenguage

[ashen jungle]

Lau isn't an English word, but no worries.

[mortal flame]

That’s going to be my Div 3 Character when it comes out lol

Agent Colonel Sanders reporting for…. Chicken

[ashen jungle]

IIRC in the campaign there's a show of random Agents gadgets country-wide turning back on when you fix everything.

I believe that's when you see Lau's new appearance, possible before.

[mortal flame]

Loved that part of the scene. It at least helps to know what agents are left in the country

Turned into Solid Snake she did while we were away lol

[ashen jungle]

A lack of long hair makes sense, and she can't keep her eye socket open to the air forever.

Also, I don't think the engine can handle tressFX.

[mortal flame]

😦 I liked OG Lau.. would have liked to see what happened to our old BOO

BOO post office forever

[ashen jungle]

I'm sure we'll get a reference to in in the Brooklyn DLC.

I like to think it's a civvie hub, but it's probably a big corpse pile.

[mortal flame]

The devs will finally acknowledge our “success” in taking back Lower Manhattan 🙂

lol

[cold bramble]

I always thought the old boo is what was attacked at start of wony but apparently not

[ashen jungle]

@cold bramble Yeah not quite, the original BoO was the Post Office, the one in WONY is City Hall.

[cold bramble]

Ahh ok. Forgive me city hall wasn’t in div 1 right? Been so long I can’t remember lol

[ashen jungle]

It's a different map, yeah.

[cold bramble]

Ok thanks

[glad spruce]

Descent comms 37-42 have been transcribed.

[glad spruce]

Any time I see the subreddit discussing the story, I wanna smash my head against the wall.

[ashen jungle]

You lasted an entire month before posting that again, I'm proud of you.

[torn shoal]

who checks reddit anyway

its reddit

nothing good comes out of it 99% of the time

[ashen jungle]

The other 1% is the Manhunt Scout results once a week.

[torn shoal]

oh yeah

at least when its not a link to a 5 or 10min video to show nothing of value

i really hate dem youtubers

[ashen jungle]

Gotta make that 1c profit off 10 minutes of vamping.

[torn shoal]

last time i watched a video about a mmo "omg new gold exploit" which was "buy stuff cheap and sell for much more" and it was 20min+, i def lost my will to live after that

[ashen jungle]

Okay lore, lore. Uh, do you think that if Sawyer had her limb replaced right now, she'd be forced back by the Watch, as she's technically fit for duty.

I'm talking future-scifi robot leg.

[torn shoal]

i dont think she is mentally fit tho

like agents get hurt all the time and get patched up, but sawyer lost it when roach kidnapped the kid

also she didnt appear since release, i dont think they gonna get her voice actor lol

[ashen jungle]

Unlike Lau, it does look like she'd still be up for it.

[plain junco]

i just restrained myself from making the dumbest pun ever

[ornate gull]

Div1 are mid Manhattan WONY are below of it

[mortal flame]

When’s Brooklyn coming out again? Can’t wait….

[torn shoal]

this year

we have no more info

[mortal flame]

sigh guess I’ll go back to Fortnite for now lol

[torn shoal]

there is still journey missions to do

and manhunt

[mortal flame]

I don’t care for any endgame activities. I literally haven’t touch the game. Literally the last thing I remember doing was standing outside the first mission area on my main character…. And doing absolutely nothing since then

Like lvl 5

[torn shoal]

i mean if you wanna understand the story, its better to play

[mortal flame]

Life got in the way

only way I’ve been staying up to date with the game is literally through lore vids lol

and the book trilogy

[keen maple]

I’m just saying

The Cleaners are right

[mortal flame]

Uh…. Excuse me?

Div 1 agents triggered

[keen maple]

The best way to kill a virus of this magnitude is to burn every infected individual

We’re doing the good work here, so, stand aside agent, or you can burn like the rest of these….infected

[late void]

Virus is already spread way beyond your ability to contain it with such methods

[torn shoal]

its not

its quarantine

always has been

[keen maple]

And how’d that work in nyc?

It failed

[torn shoal]

there was no quarantine before the virus went to other places

also the cleaners failed, so there's also that

[keen maple]

They haven’t failed, there still doing what’s necessary

[torn shoal]

when billions of people have died globally, i can safely say : they failed spectacularly

[keen maple]

Be patient

[torn shoal]

patient for what ? the whole world to die ?

[keen maple]

Well yea, so we can burn the infected

I love the smell of napalm in the morning

[torn shoal]

you know the goal of killing a virus is to save people, not to kill everyone

[keen maple]

Then why did the US release Smallpox in 2001 only for it to fail and kill some people?

[torn shoal]

what are you talking about

[keen maple]

Operation Dark Winter

[torn shoal]

it wasnt smallpox

it was a test

also thats completely irrelevant to the argument here

your argument is flawed in many ways, the main one being : fire is useless if you wanna kill people, guns and bombs do the job better

[keen maple]

Reddit ahh comment 😭

[torn shoal]

if you wanna kill the whole world, fire is the least effective weapon

[keen maple]

Well what about nukes, can we try that?

[torn shoal]

i litterally said it

[keen maple]

It would have let us won the Korean War

[torn shoal]

yeah that wouldnt be a good thing

you cant nuke people just cause you disagree with them

thats completely unhinged behavior

even if thats normal for american standards

here in the rest of the world, we like being normal

[keen maple]

I’m sorry I can’t here you as I nuke China in Hoi4

[torn shoal]

average american i guess

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[keen maple]

I ain’t that average

[late void]

That's what they all say

[torn shoal]

i was about to say that lmao

[keen maple]

I’m just saying

I ain’t that average

[torn shoal]

sounds average to me

[keen maple]

Am I a catholic?
Yes
Do I live in NY but hate NYC?
Yes but so do a lot of people
Do I wish I was at Jake 58’s casino?
Obviously
Do I wish I was at Long Lake?
I’ll take that as my vacation

I must gamble, yet here I am playing Hoi4

[ember temple]

I swear we're all not like that

[torn shoal]

yeah its a generalization

obviously

but most of yall are

[keen maple]

“Free Thinkers” when Canada slips up

We can give them the fallout ending

[torn shoal]

i mean thats why in div people get crazy and gun down everything

division cant really happen in the rest of the world, there isnt enough guns

i think there is like 10 gun per people in the us

thats insane

[keen maple]

And per 100 it’s 120.5

I’m pretty sure it’s because we need to be ready if Canada try’s something

[torn shoal]

yeah, thats insane behavior as i was saying

thinking everybody is out to get you

[keen maple]

If we actually annexed Canada it has to be split up into different states not one big state 😭

[torn shoal]

thats why div 1 is realistic, instead of community support and helping people, they just start gunning down everything

[mortal flame]

Oh no… someone has fallen down the conspiracy theorist mindset

[torn shoal]

yeah its kinda sad

[mortal flame]

Join the club

[keen maple]

Quick give them cocaine and Waco footage

[mortal flame]

????

[keen maple]

Just do it

[mortal flame]

Nah…. give them a M4 and tell them do it for your country

[keen maple]

To toast my pop tart or to not toast my pop tart

[mortal flame]

Your country needs you? More like it needs expendable people

Your country doesn’t care about you as much as you think.

[keen maple]

We are conspiracy analyst

[mortal flame]

We’re all just Numbers, statistics on some pencil pushers desk in DC

[keen maple]

Conspiracy theorist probably was coined by the CIA or something

So called theories when they come true

[torn shoal]

is it conspiracy theory if its true cause the cia done it ?

[mortal flame]

“Oh this city lost 5000/10000 to the virus? Oh well”

[keen maple]

Yea true

[torn shoal]

im not talking about inside the us crazy conspiracy

[mortal flame]

“Anyway, Let’s talk about the funding for that statue out front”

[torn shoal]

more like the bad stuff they done around the world

[keen maple]

Guys we should pool our money together and ask the government to reform the Republic of Texas

[torn shoal]

im not in texas so no thx

[mortal flame]

WHAT we need….. is a new Galactic Empire

[keen maple]

Space is boring

[mortal flame]

We shall bring Order, Peace, and Security

[keen maple]

What we need is….Rhodesia

[torn shoal]

its funny cause

[mortal flame]

[torn shoal]

when its in fiction everybody understand it

but when its in real life, nobody bats an eye

[mortal flame]

Joker meme rises from the ashes

[torn shoal]

stuff be happenning in front of everyone and people be shrugging it off

[mortal flame]

You mean the world since 2019? Yeah. Sounds about right

[keen maple]

You see Batman

When girls kiss guys, nobody bats an eye

But when you kiss your homie,…society….society calls us gay

[mortal flame]

Actually no. Since 2014

[torn shoal]

its not since 2019, you're only watching since 2019

its been like that for hundred of years

[mortal flame]

This guy has a point

[keen maple]

9/10/2001*

The day it all went downhill

[mortal flame]

oh no. Sir

Sir that’s illegal

[keen maple]

GEORGE BUSH ROOKIE CARD 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️

[torn shoal]

no, thats the day people realised it could affect them too

before that, they didnt care

[mortal flame]

Now you’ve offended every American/American supporter in a 100 mile radius

[torn shoal]

if i offend americans, that mean im doing something good

[keen maple]

Yea

[mortal flame]

I.E. the us government/the FBI agent staring at your computer screen

[keen maple]

If there’s a Fed watching me, then it’s over

I understand HOI4 Navy….and Navy in the Fallout Mod

[torn shoal]

i like the fbi watching people meme stuff, even if its stupid

[keen maple]

It’s jover, zillions of convoys must sink

[mortal flame]

What’s a fallout mod have anything to do with this rant lol

[keen maple]

Yes

The Power of Autism I have

Hot Chocolate drinking I am

[mortal flame]

Honestly everyone is missing the point that the NSA literally watches everything and everyone all over the world

[torn shoal]

yeah everybody knows that

[ashen jungle]

Okay, back to the div lore now.

[keen maple]

Yes

Sooooo….I think Conley is a 8 at best

[torn shoal]

yeah so as i was saying : burning people is bad

cant believe i have to say this xd

[mortal flame]

In the Division universe, the NSA literally tracked everything that was happening with Amherst. So basically if they reported their findings to their relevant “not corrupt” supervisor, maybe the Division game events never would have happened

[ashen jungle]

You should really look into how this whole thing got started, with info from after 2019.

[keen maple]

I mean if the Division Gods tell me to burn people in a daily challenge I’m happy to oblige

Although I prefer just taking their head off

[mortal flame]

“Aight, imma head out”

[keen maple]

Ok maybe a 9/9.5?

But the Seeker Mine?
That’s the real deal

[ashen jungle]

@keen maple Enough of the "weird" thing. This is the lore discussion channel.

[keen maple]

Sorry I’m death 👎🏻👍🫰🙌👍👐🏼🤛✌️🫰👐🏼

So….is there a cure?

[torn shoal]

there are antivirals

but they arent working for now

[keen maple]

Mhh

[torn shoal]

we lost them to bt anyway

[ashen jungle]

The infection rate for the Green Poison was about a 90%-ish mortality rate, anyone who could have been infected, probably already has been.

[keen maple]

We need that Russian Scientist

[torn shoal]

we have him i think

but we dont have the antivirals so it doesnt help

[keen maple]

Yea we got him after Coney

[torn shoal]

yeah and we lost antivirals after stovepipê

[ashen jungle]

@keen maple Nope, kidnapped again.

[torn shoal]

oh

[keen maple]

Mother fuc-

[torn shoal]

when ?

[keen maple]

Are you kidding me

[mortal flame]

What happened to the BSAV that we are mass producing though?

[ashen jungle]

He wasn't recovered during the "get kidnapped people back" time.

[keen maple]

😭

[mortal flame]

Wait what???? This is news to me

[ashen jungle]

Did you not play the Manhunts?

[mortal flame]

It’s literally a big whole machine in the White House Basement

[torn shoal]

i did, but its been so long, i forgot almost everything getting mad at that fkin warhound at the end of stovepipe

[torn shoal]

everything got stolen by bt i think

[mortal flame]

See above earlier comments with Lyfe

[glad spruce]

When Black Tush attacked the White House

[keen maple]

Ok I’ve lost faith in the SHD

WARNING: NEARBY AGENT HAS BEEN MARKED ROUGE

[ashen jungle]

Broken Wings, I think is the name.

It's "rogue".

[torn shoal]

rouge

refractor

[glad spruce]

That's the one

[keen maple]

Shhhhh, I woke up 20 minutes ago

[torn shoal]

im gonna need to check ngn channel before dlc comes out

[mortal flame]

Ah. Sounds about right. The time when ||the only good True Son died defending an unconscious man?|| lol

[glad spruce]

Wally is nice

[keen maple]

Don’t forget about Thunderbird, his sacrifice will not be forgotten

[mortal flame]

Who?

[torn shoal]

nah, fk thunderbird

[keen maple]

Bro 😭

You goobers don’t know the legend

[ashen jungle]

@keen maple I've already told you to cut out the memes, it's getting old.

[keen maple]

It’s lore

[ashen jungle]

The constant spam of crying emojis says otherwise.

[sudden mortar]

And his famous quote:
I'm hit! losing control! Ah... Fu--

[torn shoal]

yeah, its not great

while the best quote will always be : negative ramos

[mortal flame]

I only care about the Helo pilots that never make it to their drop zones (Survival gamemode and the Div 1 Raid where you have to try to save the pilots from the Rikers RIP pilots in that mission)

[keen maple]

Yea, although honestly I’m surprised that hit and run didn’t like cause a whole fire on the Hovercraft

Though yea, thanks to him we got the vials, only to lose them

[torn shoal]

i wish wyvern wasnt invincible when we arrive

i'd love to oneshot her

[mortal flame]

At least he helped destroy the Hoverboat lol

[keen maple]

Yea

[mortal flame]

She dead in the comics unless that’s someone else lol

[ashen jungle]

He died breaking one engine, let's not overstate it.

[keen maple]

I wish we could assassinate Natalya

[torn shoal]

tidal bassin boss

[mortal flame]

Hush now… we have Div 3 coming in 3 years ok

[keen maple]

You don’t understand, it’s Thunderbird

[torn shoal]

cal would just take her place

[keen maple]

True

[torn shoal]

also i dont understand why people think explosion deaths are cool

[ashen jungle]

That is the sign of someone who gave themself a nickname for sure.

[mortal flame]

Easier to hunt that’s for sure

He can’t run lol

[ashen jungle]

It's like Keener clearly having called himself Vanguard.

[keen maple]

Who said anything about explosions

I’m just gonna talk to her

[sudden mortar]

Probably they watched too much Hollywood death scenes idk

[keen maple]

I’m just gonna talk to her that’s all

[torn shoal]

talking about thunderbird

[keen maple]

Ah

[mortal flame]

And get drugged and brainwashed like the book protagonist? No way

[keen maple]

I’m blind

[sudden mortar]

And burned

[torn shoal]

for real tho, who comes up with the nicknames, they sound so obvious xd

[keen maple]

I mean I’m loyal and all, but if the BT captured me and offered me Pop Tarts….im sorry it’s over

[mortal flame]

Everyone in the military

[torn shoal]

they need some nickname training

[ashen jungle]

You don't give yourself a nickname in the military, and it's never a compliment.

[keen maple]

It’s always what you did in BT most likely

[ashen jungle]

The BT are a private corporation, I still don't know why they refer to us as "civvies".

[mortal flame]

“ Welcome to Military nicknaming 101. Today we are going to learn how to nickname your fellow squad mates…. Keener, your squad is up first…”

[keen maple]

PMC mindset

[torn shoal]

as opposed to mercs i guess ?

[ashen jungle]

We are actual government employees, not just contracted to be one.
If anything, we're the closest thing that's left to a military.

[mortal flame]

Bruh Merc and PMC same thing

[sudden mortar]

Maybe the SHD training isn't so intensive to call us soldiers after it

[keen maple]

Yes but we have laws against merc’s, as does 90% of the developed world

[mortal flame]

We’re being trained by Spooks

[ashen jungle]

Casper is the worst drill sergeant.

[keen maple]

100%

[mortal flame]

French Foreign Legion anyone? lol

[keen maple]

Ok besides them, but regardless

[torn shoal]

please no

i had a friend in that

this is the worst thing possible

[keen maple]

I think SHD Agents should get both ISAC and ANNA or have an option to switch between them

[ashen jungle]

Why?

[torn shoal]

anna > isac on every level

[keen maple]

I don’t want cold stoic answers

I want funny

[torn shoal]

anna sass is just something to die for

[keen maple]

Yes

[ashen jungle]

ANNA has actual agency (as far as we know), ISAC just gives out information.
In a gun fight, I'd rather cold emotion.

[mortal flame]

Literally what we are doing in game right now with Keener’s oversight lol

[torn shoal]

well i might die with anna but i'll die with a smile

[mortal flame]

What did you think we were leveling up? Our watch? Lol

[keen maple]

Soo here’s what I don’t understand

If the Rikers needed a boat to escape according to how LaRae Barrett did….did the Rikers forget about the one bridge from nyc to Rikers or was it most likely blocked off

[ashen jungle]

Canonically, the SHD Watch being levelled up is just re-unlocking what Keener undid at the end of WONY.

Or his hologram, or whatever.

[mortal flame]

Look. We all got up at looks at clock 3 in the morning to rant about what’s real lore and about Thunderbird…. I’d say this was a wonderful 3 hours lol

[keen maple]

I don’t think that was his holo, Theo most likely pulled the same shit he did during his boss fight

[ashen jungle]

It wasn't a question, I know how it worked.
I just still think it was dumb.

[torn shoal]

it is holo, confirmed by descent coms

[keen maple]

Ok

[mortal flame]

facepalm

[keen maple]

Idfk, I don’t play the Descent

[mortal flame]

It’s Ubisoft… what did you expect? A Battle Pass leveling system? …. Oh there is a battle pass system

[ashen jungle]

It being locked to a Descent comm does seem weird.
I'd like to see the player-stats on the amount of people who actually have that comm.

[torn shoal]

every live service has bp now

[keen maple]

Sadly

[ashen jungle]

Oh just stop it.

[torn shoal]

but yeah descent isnt great

[mortal flame]

How far AAA games have fallen lol

[ashen jungle]

I disagree with an aspect of the story, it doesn't mean I suddenly hate the entire company.

It's getting really old.

[keen maple]

Womp Womp

[mortal flame]

Wasn’t meant as an insult

[ashen jungle]

Sure.

[mortal flame]

Sarcasm at its finest through text never gets through to anyone I’m afraid

[keen maple]

So can we add mini helicopter blades to seeker mines

[mortal flame]

Personal experience

[mortal flame]

That’s what a drone is

[keen maple]

Yea but, Seeker Mine

[mortal flame]

ok…. I’m done here lol

[torn shoal]

you want to be a drone operator for bt i see

[keen maple]

Nu uh, I’d rather be a Mini Tank controller

So I can name it W.A.L.L.E

[torn shoal]

tanks dont do well in division

[keen maple]

Yea but there cool

It’s the thought that matters

I think Keener should be let out of his cell, you know get some fresh air and….oh he escaped

Someone get the horse and rope again

[sudden mortar]

Well the the closest thing we have to minitanks operator is a bomb diffuser robot being controlled by an EOD specialist

[keen maple]

Yea true

[mortal flame]

At this point he probably has a backdoor to all communication going in and out of the White House and distributing all comms to his Rogue cells across the U.S.

I mean they let Theo into the planning room… with a computer

mic drop

[mortal flame]

Yay a free backpack for our 6 years of hard work

[torn shoal]

"hard work"

[mortal flame]

Do you think Ubisoft will sell a IRL backpack again? They did it for the DZ backpack at the E3 reveal of D2.

I can finally show that I’m an agent lol

[mortal flame]

Our Blood Sweat and Tears

And the feedback reddits lol

[torn shoal]

ok ambessa

[mortal flame]

?

[sick lantern]

we didn’t produce any, or if we did it was never mentioned

#division-tweets message
what’s this about?

[late void]

Prepper stuff. They give a bit more detail in that video they shared yesterday

[glad spruce]

We didn't, we only got a couple of samples from our raid on Tidal Basin

In fact, the whole point of securing the bioreactor in the Pentagon was to mass-produce the BSAVs. Of course, that device is under Black Tusk's custody

[sick lantern]

i ain’t watching that anyone got a summary

[late void]

Survival tips for a societal collapse, like how to make open water safe to drink, what food to stock up on, that kind of thing. Like those American survivalist people who build bunkers and so on.

[sick lantern]

right thank you

when it said “how agents prepare” i was thinking it would be an adaptation of like making go bags and the undercover training, from TWOTD/Hearts on Fire

[late void]

There was some mention of go bags, but it seems aimed at RL people not (fictional) agents

[glad spruce]

Descent comms 43-48 have been transcribed,

[cold bramble]

They exciting?

[glad spruce]

Mostly involving the Warhound mobility experiments. I'm just almost done with transcribing Year 5 Descent comms

[cold bramble]

Ooh. The warhound stuff is interesting

[glad spruce]

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLpoqP0RYiIazV7h8XnKTl1mMjwsD1WVtS

[mortal flame]

The standing Warhound is the stuff of legend

[cold bramble]

That reminds me I need to catch up the comms

Man I’m excited to see where Brooklyn takes us. Story wise

[glad spruce]

I can't but feel like the running Warhound comms from Descent is a running gag based on a bug that made Warhounds run in two legs in the game

[cold bramble]

😂😂

[mortal flame]

But that would be a horror movie… running faceless metal robot with a 50 Cal on its back

Just turn the corner and it comes bursting through the blast doors

[sudden mortar]

I replayed that gatehouse mission with a new player (it's a one time mission before Manny tells you to take the Tidal Basin stronghold). I love when Manny gets angry

[mortal flame]

Angry Manny equals best dad vibes… jk

[glad spruce]

I think he'll be a great dad, as long as he remembers he can't control everything

[mortal flame]

Watch him become the next US President

he’s already in the White House lol

[steady vale]

Question
Have we ever seen the enemy reload their weapons?

[mortal flame]

Unless you count the mortar on the APC or the big True Sons canon

possibly not

[steady vale]

Damn that’s really unfair

[mortal flame]

Imagine if they got the same perks as us with their armor sets…..

[steady vale]

😭 awe hell nah

I can just imagine a black tusk heavy using a strikers build

[mortal flame]

I mean.. the snipers can one shot us so I don’t see why not lol

[late void]

Yes, the lmg guys definitely do, when they stop laying down suppressing fire and duck behind cover, that's to reload.
Pretty sure the others do too, but they're usually in cover when it happens

[mortal flame]

Oh right forgot about that lol

[steady vale]

True

[steady vale]

Explains why I rarely see it then.

[mortal flame]

More like “oh he was dead before he even ran out of his first clip actually mere seconds as he passed through the door” moments

[steady vale]

Facts

[ornate gull]

Idk what to fear

WT Rusher or BT Rusher

[torn shoal]

you guys didnt die enough from wt grenadiers and drone operators and it shows

[mortal flame]

OG agents remember the fear in our eyes as we looked over cover to see a LMB rusher coming at our unprepared weak loadouts in Falcon Lost

[torn shoal]

oh you mean in div 1

[mortal flame]

OG Div 2 agents that played Div 1, I guess(I wouldn’t know I haven’t played anything yet), get ptsd when either the WT or BT rusher runs at them shrugging off more bullets than the LMG and Sledgehammer bois combined

[torn shoal]

yeah thoses were nightmare material

[mortal flame]

Back in my day (personally), if I didn’t find that random twitch streamer and he was one of the few back than that had a hardcore squad on original Xbox One that helped grind out legendary campaign and all the raids on repeat for the couple months leading up to the release of Div 2 with me , I would never have been as invested as I am now in the Division lore

The Covid pandemic expedited my belief in a IRL one for one Division 1 pre activation events. (The news coming out of NY at the time didn’t help either lol )

[glad spruce]

Unrelated to the last post, but do you guys get the vibes that Natalya Sokolova is a narcissist?

[torn shoal]

not really

i feel like she is just someones that likes power too much

she is just surrounded by idiots mostly, so its easy to say she think high of herself when she just facepalm half the time listening to her men

its normal to surround yourself with idiots cause they are more loyal but still

[glad spruce]

Hmmm, I dunno about that. She was dismissive to both Stovepipe and Chunks about the St.Louis dirty bomb attack.

Not to mention, she was giving Chunks attitude when he called her in how to keep his squad's morale with edible food.

Oh, and the taunting recording she left for Manny and us agents at the end of Season 11

[torn shoal]

thats just psychological warfare

for stovepipe, she was messing with him cause she knew she wanted to frame the division anyway for his death

[ashen jungle]

I mean, she is a CEO.

[torn shoal]

yeah that too

most ceo are like that

[glad spruce]

I don't think I've ever seen a CEO who's not a narcissist. So, yeah, that tracks.

[glad spruce]

Descent comms 49-54 have been transcibed.

For the reference, the total count of Descent comms from Year 5 is 52.

I keep this pace up, and I'll be done by Wednesday, next week.

[wicked gorge]

CEO of Costco, Craig Jelinek

And I think the CEO of Arizona but im not too sure on that

[glad spruce]

Descent comms 55-60 have been transcribed.

[mortal flame]

Arceus has blessed us with the truly hard work of this one agent to find the lore hidden in all these comms from doing descent on repeat lol

[glad spruce]

Well, I have the full list of the comms, so that helps a lot.

In any case, Descent comms 61-66 have been transcribed.

I'll be taking a break from doing lore stuff, every weekend. Don't wanna burn myself out.

[mortal flame]

😦

[near totem]

What could be the Ark protocol?

[sick lantern]

probably some cabal secret bunker idk

can’t imagine many things else you could call an “ark”

secret thingy that survives the outbreak

[glad spruce]

Likely a secret apocalypse bunker for the Cabal.

[glad spruce]

Descent comms 67-72 have been transcibed.

18 comms left

[true fox]

You are awesome, don't forget to put your name at the end of the work, people need to know that someone transcribed everything by themselves

[glad spruce]

I'm sure the people in the wiki know this already lol

But I'm sure people won't mind if I make a document that transcribes each comm

[ornate gull]

It is possible that ECHO can be forgotten/erase after set amount of time?

[glad spruce]

I don't know if it's possible to completely erase an ECHO, but I do recall Keener tampered with an ECHO to conceal himself when we found one in Police Academy.

[glad spruce]

Actually, I do remember Rowan O'Shea tampering with an ECHO when Brenda and her team were trying to find her.

[glad spruce]

So, it's more likely that ECHOs don't get forgotten over time nor erased.

But they can be tampered with, if you know what you're doing.

[ashen jungle]

Wouldn't they naturally degrade over time, as ECHO's take from physical evidence on the ground?

[wicked gorge]

Since Echos just playback video footage, most of the data is probably sent to remote servers or stored in the cloud until ISAC can reconstruct said data

Only way I could see a echo decay is probably disrupted data transfer or someone tampering with the data

[mortal flame]

Hawk the Decoder. Devs should put a reference to you in an Echo…. But Echoes usually go either real bad with big gruesome deaths or real chaotic with a heroic one like Noble Team

Remember Reach and all lol

Does anyone remember that Ubisoft did a YouTube “follow along story” in which some engineer that was keeping watch over a NY agent safe house got caught in a conflict with a civi and a revealed to be rogue agent (with us agents doing weekly missions that ended up with us encountering the rogue agent in game and killing him to get his outfit?

pretty “low” budget stuff but it was pretty cool how it translated from LA video to the game

[torn shoal]

yeah i remember, but the video story wasnt complete, it got cut short

[mortal flame]

It got cut?… well i mean we killed the rogue agent end of story lol

[torn shoal]

yeah but that happenned like mlonths after it was cut

and it was added so we could get the rest of the skins we were missing iirc

[mortal flame]

unless the videos were just fabricated so we could kill a rogue agent that got too close to finding the “truth” of our activation lol

agents taking care of their own and all that

[torn shoal]

we already know why and how we got activated

[mortal flame]

Like i mean getting close to the hidden agenda of the Cabal i mean… BT and Cal…. Cal must have been literally next to us the whole time in his little secret bunker in NY

I mean it as a very not true theory (my statement above) but i bet there were some lone wolf agents killed for accidentally getting too close to the truth…. Example: the female agent audio logs on the Alexa speaker that went up to the point where ||she sees Hyenas taking President Elias from Air Force One crash, but some BT turned/Hunter activated felllw agent shoots her in cold blood in some alleyway and left her dead body there|| it’s odd and sad no one really knows where and if she is in the game near the Air Force One crash site…. To honor her memory and possibly honor her “sacrifice” Id want to find her possible last known location… it’s probably not canon, but it was an interesting listen as a non Alexa speaker owner

[sick lantern]

considering that Asher was temporarily re added to the game for the one year anniversary

and i have never seen this mentioned anywhere else
i’m gonna presume that’s not true

[glad spruce]

Descent comms 73-78 have been transcribed.

[hybrid hawk]

does division 2 tie into the other tom clancy games

[glad spruce]

No. Think of it as an alternate timeline where a crazy eco-fascist unleashed a weaponized virus and us humans deal with the aftermath of a pandemic that caused societal collapse, at least in the US

[ashen jungle]

Did Amherst even do it at this point? I hear so much conflicting lore that I'm not sure anymore.

[glad spruce]

He did

[ashen jungle]

Good level of detail there.

Quick question: when you're transcribing the Descent comms, are you doing them verbatim, or in the way you've been doing the Manhunt Scout comms on here?

[mortal flame]

feels bad…. for the one time actors and actresses from those YT shorts. They will be remembered in the IRL Ubisoft Division timeline lol

[mortal flame]

Is Hawk actually transcribing these logs into like paragraph conversation form? if so. That’s amazing

[glad spruce]

I do them verbatim since I do so for the wiki as well

[ashen jungle]

Honestly, good. Personal opinion has no place in a proper archive.

[torn shoal]

i liked anna last com about nat

[flat acorn]

That line from today's manhunt debrief with ANNA made me LOL

[sudden mortar]

It's funny how Kelso on scout description is saying: agent, I'm not playing games with you like Kenner so here is another 9 intels to check and collect on other regions of DC

[mortal flame]

“Ironic” - Chancellor Palpatine lowkey being biggest Sith Lord right in front of the whole most powerful Jedi Council

So….., with all the information from the Collapse “survival guide,” is the “survival in a collapsing city” tips and tricks actually work IRL?

And can someone confirm if Operation Dark Winter was an actual US government experiment back then?

[glad spruce]

Yes, it was.

[lone adder]

Yes, it happened June 22-23, 2001

[sweet crypt]

Thre is a lot of info about it available online. I has been a much studied exercise.

[mortal flame]

Exactly….. I just feel like even though it’s been studied, the IRL pandemic repeated what was seen in the experiment…. It’s like they say. A Plan always never goes to plan in the field

I’m paraphrasing real hard

[sudden mortar]

They even said it was a "real life" experiment on the division E3 trailer https://youtu.be/tat6BZqlyDo?si=9xviwvGmu8Sf6Svn

[mortal flame]

But difference between real life and Division universe has been a blur to me since 2019

Anyway on to another topic…..

[glad spruce]

Manhunt Comm 4; Green Light

||Douglas confirms to Keener that Lau is willing to go on her mission to kill President Ellis, even going as far as to play politics and follow through Nat Sokolova's BTSU tests and antagonise Schaeffer for her own pleasure||

||Keener was puzzled about that last part, since he knows Schaeffer was Natalya's most loyal soldier, though Douglas commented that with Schaeffer removed from Ellis' security detail, Nat had to solve a problem he created, which in her eyes made him her sworn enemy.||

||Douglas also further mentions Nat's flaws. She does not tolerate questioning her or her systems. Efficiency at all costs. Acceptable loss is personnel. And as far as Nat is concerned, her systems are infallible and cannot be questioned.||

||Keener remarks to Douglas that she makes Nat sound like a psychopath. While Douglas is curious whether she is a narcissist or autistic, she doesn't really know. In any case, she further comments that Nat can't accept she has ever done anything wrong, given she grew up in her childhood with no one telling her no, which turned her into a privileged a-hole.||

||Give that privileged a-hole a private army, and we can see how it's all working out so far.||

[torn shoal]

the wow pandemic was studied to see what a real global pandemic would be like, then discarded cause they saw infecting others on purpose and felt it wasnt realistic, then studied again after covid started cause they saw people doing that irl

[mortal flame]

And here we are. With no (Division universe’s)foreseeable government, rogue agents running around getting killed by Hunters (literally agents turned by Cal’s speeches), heroic good agents (us in NY and DC) just becoming damage control against all factions plus Black Tusk throughout the United States. And then also trying to keep our gear up and running at the same time by ||protecting (badly) our three central network hubs as seen in the book trilogy, literally one was almost taken over by a rogue agent and another almost taken down by a literal computer code program||

I mean. Those satellites in space are probably degrading any the time of Division 3… has the lore offered any updates of anyone keeping an update on the satellites and power grids throughout the US

To end my TED talk, I found it hilarious in the Country updates being given to some random US general (especially Africa literally being one of the not even hit hard countries and the general just disrespecting them and the secretary giving him the news lol)

[glad spruce]

That Brigadier General was such a jerk

[torn shoal]

So you're saying he was a brigadier général

[glad spruce]

Yessir

[torn shoal]

Im yet to see someone in the army that doesn't suck and survive

[glad spruce]

I was gonna say something more insulting about him

But we know how restrictive this server is about swear words 😛

[torn shoal]

Yeah

Funny when we know most of them words are used ingame by npcs

[cold bramble]

Best channel for division 3 discussion?

[late void]

There isn't really anything to discuss except hopes and dreams. If it's lore -related predictions then this would be the best place, for gameplay stuff I'm not sure we really have anywhere suitable

[cold bramble]

Okay no worries

[mortal flame]

Someone should edit together IRL 2019-2021 footage with the intro cutscene of Div 1.

would fit seamlessly from what I’ve experienced and no one would be the wiser lol

[sick lantern]

NSPD51 is real too

ISAC is based on a real computer system called CALO

[cold bramble]

Woah I knew d51 was real but never knew that isac had its irl thing

That’s cool

[mortal flame]

What is that again?

[sick lantern]

National Security Presidential Directive 51

[mortal flame]

in Division universe

[sick lantern]

the document that gives the SHD legal power

[mortal flame]

Wait What

agent mind… blown

[sick lantern]

but it does exist IRL due to the findings of Dark Winter (iirc) don’t think that’s actually true sorry

[mortal flame]

so could literally say “Execute Directive 51” and all out sleeper agents rise to save what remains IRL? lol

Oh boy. I love my country

[cold bramble]

I don’t mean to get political but was it something a president procured themselves or congress?

[sick lantern]

the only signatory is George Bush so the former I suppose

i’m not a lawyer nor an american so

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[glad spruce]

It was signed by President George W. Bush, so the former

[sick lantern]

I did just say that.

[glad spruce]

Wrong channel

[glad spruce]

Oh. My. God.

How hard can it be to not get your account stolen? Jesus

[torn shoal]

2nd time in 3min, thats something

[torn shoal]

i should do a research on this channel, to check who was saying faye was rogue and bad and we had to kill her and ellis wasnt the president and had no power

cause i feel like this season gonna prove me right in the end

[glad spruce]

Call me crazy, but maybe Faye wanted us to kill her to maintain hers and Viper's cover. If she was captured and talks, Black Tusk and the Hunters would know/

[torn shoal]

yeah, but its not the same as what people said in here

saying ellis was litterally useless for anyone and joined bt cause why not even tho he couldnt do or say anything according to them

in here people said ellis wasnt president anymore and faye was just plain rogue

yet last com noted ellis was still president and faye was playing double agent

and i remember being called some bad words for that xd

[glad spruce]

Descent comms 79-84 have been transcibed. 6 left.

[torn shoal]

dayum, you're on a roll

[glad spruce]

Thanks. I should be finished with transcribing tomorrow

[sick lantern]

unreasonable assumptions don't become canon fact until they're certified in game, who would've guessed

[ashen jungle]

With some of the...unique takes on here, I have a feeling most of those people are going to be let down.

[glad spruce]

Maybe. But at least this season's comms validated my suspicion that Lau didn't kill Ellis without a good reason.

[ashen jungle]

I think we all sort of knew that already, I think the issue most people have is why she didn't just surrender to us afterwards.

[torn shoal]

yeah that part is unclear

but we know for sure ellis still had some if not all the privileges that comes with the title of president, and made sure he played them to get with the strong team

so he for sure was the president and not some random

[ashen jungle]

We knew he was the POTUS since the base campaign, or did I miss something?

[glad spruce]

He was.

After Mendez was killed, of course

[torn shoal]

he was, but some folk in this channel suggested he wasnt actually president and was only faking or something and actually had 0 power

[ashen jungle]

In what way do you "fake" being president? I like to think he had a nametag and just no one questoned it.

[torn shoal]

fake it till you make it i guess

i think someone said he wasnt swon in or something

[ashen jungle]

I'm sure he swore quite a lot when his plane was shot down.

[torn shoal]

bet

[tepid ibex]

tree fitty

[torn shoal]

No idea what that means

[tepid ibex]

im betting 3.50

[glad spruce]

"Agent, you know you're on the wrong side of this war, right? We work at the pleasure of the President. We work for Homeland. We work for Cal."

"It doesn't matter if ISAC thinks you're on mission. The minute you allied with Kelso, you've gone Rogue."

"You think I'm evil because I'm a Hunter. We're the only ones still on mission. If an agent steps out of line, we're here to clean up the mess."

[sick lantern]

i’m glad that the people deluded enough to believe that rhetoric don’t post here anymore

[glad spruce]

It does drive home how Hunters do what they do without much emotion

In wiki matters, Descent comms 85-90 have been transcribed.

It's finished

[winged reef]

Part of that is probably due to the insane amount of that || pain killer stuff theyre hopped up on all the time like mentioned in the books ||

|| I’d imagine there is something mixed in to dull emotion ||

[rich lark]

Does anyone have a good way to get the story and details of the world now that I am coming back to the game I left around summit releasing so getting a TLDR and catching up on the story would be great

[glad spruce]

Okay, in all seriousness. I'm taking a break from wiki work for the whole weekend.

So, if there's anything that needs fixing in the wiki, hit me up on Monday.

[glad spruce]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2CHVGvkOfA&pp=ygUKbmduIGdhbWluZ9IHCQlPCQGHKiGM7w%3D%3D

Yes, 4 hours is pretty long, but it does have timestamps to allow you to catch up

[rich lark]

Cool only got like an hour or so to watch which is good

[lone adder]

I'd recommend NGN on YouTube

[torn shoal]

i mean, did you look at anything in history book or the news ?

[glad spruce]

Yes?

[torn shoal]

its filled of people like that, and way worse than that

its normal

and in the game itself, i dont think hunters are particularly bad, they are violent, but its not really that different from the rest of the characters

like the true sons video footage of them executings civilians after they dig up their own grave is kinda showing how stuff like this is normal and even encouraged

people really dont understand how its easy for anyone to go from "im a nice guy" to commits multiple war crimes

[rich lark]

Ok so we are basically fighting the enclave gotcha

[glad spruce]

More like the Cabal, but yeah

[ashen jungle]

<insert world controlling evil organisation here>

The trope is not exactly unique to any franchise, so far div2's Cabal hasn't done enough to stand out.

[torn shoal]

yeah, the only thing that is original in div series is actually fighting during the pandemic

most games have a secret police/army or take place after the pandemic like in div 2

div 1 was original for that, but thats about it

div 2 was not original at all

the lore/universe i mean

and going for the cabal plot is def a confession that it wont get original at all

which is fine, i love a story i saw before as long as its develloped in an interesting way

[floral gull]

Did they change dialogue writers ever since the team shift at Massive?

[ashen jungle]

Just for the record: I have no issue with the basic plot stuff of div2.
Just didn't bother responding because the assumed negative attitude about literally anyhting MSV does is starting to wear really thin.

[floral gull]

Would anyone else happen to know?

[torn shoal]

I didnt mean to be négative here, I love div 2, the story not being original doesn't mean it's bad

[ashen jungle]

Div1's story is hardly original, no story is if you go far back enough.

But that discussion has absolutely no place in a game's lore channel. And super not my point.

[sleek plover]

Damn I hate LMB

[glad spruce]

Nobody knows.

All we know is that Lauren Stone is the narrative director for Division 2

[glad spruce]

I will say this though. The writing team got busy filling the gaps

[torn shoal]

true dat

[ashen jungle]

If you google her name with a few game related keywords afterwards, you can get an "official interview/bio" kinda thing. Interesting read.

[floral gull]

Have you ever read a Tom Clancy novel so before? If so, how does the writing compare to it

[glad spruce]

I haven't read any of Tom Clancy's novels, so I can't give an opinion on that

[floral gull]

How about the Division novels themselves

[torn shoal]

not written by tom clancy

also his writting isnt the best

[glad spruce]

I've read Operation Crossroads novels. And they're pretty fantastic.

I don't know if it's fair to compare the writing between a novel and a game, cuz they're two different mediums.

But I will say Thomas Parrott's writing gives more weight to the prowess of SHD Tech

[rich lark]

How so?

[glad spruce]

I don't know how to explain it very well, but I'll try.

But to put it succinctly, the agents don't have infinite supplies of drones and turrets like we do in the games.

So, when SHD Tech is used in the novels, they're used as force multipliers.

[floral gull]

Im more looking into any dialogue differences between two people both in the novel and in the game's comms

[rich lark]

Ooh cool

[glad spruce]

Well, that one might take a bit since I need to screenshot a number of dialog sections in the novels

[sick lantern]

that could be an insult or a compliment

[glad spruce]

For me, it's a compliment

[strange rock]

Lauren Stone is in the in game credits as a writer so there's some continuity there although narrative director seems more broad.
I'm guessing the other writers have moved on to other projects or left the company

[sharp trout]

It’s just Ubisoft owns Tom clancy’s name so they throw it on all military games pretty much

[mint citrus]

Yeah, the way the skills are depicted in the books makes them seem like incredible game changers.

Imo they still feel like that in-game, it's just that their uses are unlimited for the sake of gameplay.

[torn shoal]

weapon dont really matter if you wanna build tank

[topaz slate]

what does then?

[torn shoal]

try in the right channel #td1-build-advice

[topaz slate]

i dont got acces to it

[torn shoal]

get the role in id:customize

[pallid quail]

In the novels are the Agents a 1 man army like in the game or they run in groups?

[upbeat linden]

Cells. But yar groups

[glad spruce]

Sometimes it's also four to five agents

[floral gull]

5 agents? Now we’re getting unrealistic

[sick lantern]

fyi full division cells are four agents

[upbeat linden]

Sorry Chief you right. Thank you

[glad spruce]

In Maira's Cell, it started out as 3. Then 5, though their fellow Agent had to stay back due to leg, so it was 4 for their next mission

Then later, after their fellow agent kicked the bucket, it was 4

[torn shoal]

skill buckets

[glad spruce]

Hah.

[torn shoal]

@west bloom its better to talk in here

[west bloom]

okay

[torn shoal]

and kelso is good or bad depending on your nothing of good and bad

same for agents or isac

[west bloom]

huh?

wha?

[torn shoal]

agents are supposed to obey the president

yet president was against us

[west bloom]

yes yes

president bad, us good

[torn shoal]

what do you define good or bad ?

cause we do kill civilians

[west bloom]

helping innocent grandmas

[west bloom]

we do?

[torn shoal]

and keener did help civilians too

[west bloom]

yeah but he became evil

[torn shoal]

bt and true sons arent civilians, but hyenas and outcast are

rikers and cleaners are civilians too

[west bloom]

duk them evils, they are evil they dont count as good grandmas

[torn shoal]

why are they evil

if you say they kill civilians, remember you do too, so you're evil too

[west bloom]

okay so from my point of view did agent kelso betray me, isac like us or did she not?

[torn shoal]

maybe she had good reasons ?

[west bloom]

i am good, they are bad clear difference

[torn shoal]

says who ?

[west bloom]

nah she should have uhm stay at home?

[torn shoal]

huh

[west bloom]

me yay

[torn shoal]

maybe dont do that

[west bloom]

omni man reference

[torn shoal]

still

you're only an agent, you're not the one who decide who's evil or not

if president said to stop you would have to

even if he is evil

[west bloom]

isac does and isac supports me

[torn shoal]

isac cant override president order

[west bloom]

well my gun thinks otherwise

[torn shoal]

and if you hurt the president you're marked as rogue

[west bloom]

damn evil president brainwashing my friend and guide isac

[torn shoal]

thats why faye lau became rogue

she killed the president

[west bloom]

i dont know who she is but she seems evil,

good, evil people killing each other

[torn shoal]

maybe you should play her manhunt

to see for yourself

[west bloom]

i did, already told you i did

[torn shoal]

doesnt matter, you forgot everything

you need to replay it

[west bloom]

what was i supposed to see other than the mountain of broken bodies in my wake?

[torn shoal]

you're supposed to save what remains

not kill everything

[west bloom]

yeah, good grandmas

[west bloom]

black tusk bad

[torn shoal]

are they tho ?

president say they good, and you obey the president

and you forgot everything

so you need to replay the manhunt

[west bloom]

hmm i am my own master now "stars playing" i dont think soo

[torn shoal]

you're not your own master

[west bloom]

metal gay solid reference

[torn shoal]

if you do bad stuff you go rogue

[west bloom]

i am not?

[torn shoal]

you're a soldier

you obey orders

[west bloom]

hot wind blowing "starts playing"

[torn shoal]

maybe you should references that people actually know

[west bloom]

damn anyway so , can you answer my question?

[west bloom]

its a metal gear solid reference, its a soundtrack

[torn shoal]

im trying, but you're just joking instead of listening

media litteracy is a thing

[west bloom]

you are trying to morally justifiy agent koslo being a double agant and her backstabbing us

that parazite betrayed us,betrayed isac which is wrong, isac is useful unlike her

[torn shoal]

no, im trying to make you see more and understand that agents arent what you think they are

you think isac is good but you're out there killing civilians

how is that good

[west bloom]

yeah yeah the gray stuff oh we kill mass murdering civilians, oh blacktusk is just following orders, the president is looking for its own gains instead of the wellbeing of his nation

[torn shoal]

it matters

killing civilians is wrong, thats it

even if you dont like them

[west bloom]

i dont care any of that, i just want to kill and kill and kill, i dont want to even bat an eye about who i kill

[torn shoal]

thats why you're not good

so maybe you'll be friend with bt or true sons

[west bloom]

one of the coms described hynes r*ping the girlfriend of someone then killing him how does that not make them irredeamable slugs?

that stayed with me because how dark it was

[torn shoal]

did they have a fair trial ?

i dont think so

so, by law, they are innocent until proven guilty

[west bloom]

? well my pistol's name is righteous justice dispensing tool so i guess so

[torn shoal]

thats why u are bad

all rogue agents said the same

[west bloom]

says the one keeping me in the dark

[torn shoal]

im not keeping you in the dark, you say yourself you dont care about right or wrong, you only want to kill

like why do you care about kelso if you dont care about the story or lore

[west bloom]

"oh morals how much i love them!"
"this poor idiot does not understand the morally gray story."
"such impudence this peasent is irritating my mind with his barabaric and simple way of serving justice, how unnacaptable!"

nah mate just tell me did agent kelso betray me the player with a good or with a bad reason?

[torn shoal]

man you should tell reference that people know

[west bloom]

i was quoting you mate

[sudden mortar]

I detected sarcasm

[torn shoal]

never said thoses words but ok

[torn shoal]

i will take no criticism here xd

[west bloom]

please kind sir if you are already here could you tell answer three of my questions?
did agent kelso betray us the player?
did she have a good reason for it like saving the innocent grandmas?
is she evil?

[west bloom]

kinda

[torn shoal]

not even close

[torn shoal]

and to answer : yes; yes, no

[west bloom]

you are cleary dissatisfied with me not understanding the story being gray and not black and white

[west bloom]

thank you mate

see you next time with my even more dumber questions

[torn shoal]

being dissatisfied doesnt mean i wanna treat you like an idiot, im trying to tell you the lore here

[west bloom]

i cant wait for out next ecounter

[torn shoal]

im doing the opposite of treating you like an idiot

[west bloom]

you are trying to educate me about the morally gray story full of twists and stuff

yup

[torn shoal]

yes

you dont remember anything about the story

so i have to tell you everything

[west bloom]

absolutely nothing

[west bloom]

yes

[sudden mortar]

In my opinion there is no right and wrong side in a destroyed world, you only have a lot of factions that think their way is the right way or they are doing stuff for power, control yada yada. But if we understood the reasons why Fay went rogue, I'm pretty sure that Kelso is also doing that for the right reasons. In that case, is stopping thr the Secretary of Homeland security for trying to establish a authoritian new society with a narcissist woman, by corrupting a classified organization that was supposed to "save what remains"

[west bloom]

so there is this corpse waiting to be corpseitified and the president was a bed person for not caring about the nation but for himself and got killey by fae lauey for trying to sell the country to soon to be corpse woman, and i am pretty sure that restoring a democratic nation with people that didnt lose their cool would be the best faction

[torn shoal]

the same democratic nation that let his people die from the dollar flu ?

that contaminated the dz with dc62 ?

[west bloom]

excuse me for my poor english, but i am not really good with typing

[sudden mortar]

What did you expect? Both McManus and Ellis are idiots

[west bloom]

right there was that, uhm , tuschee i cant protect that statement but still better than a dictatorship with kovnyik natalie no?

[torn shoal]

not saying nat is good, but the people you say are good arent really better tbh

[west bloom]

mcdonalds? there was a person like that?

[torn shoal]

if you send people to die, you shouldnt be surprised they dont like that

[west bloom]

makes sense now after knowing more about the story, well after spending the last 420+ hours of the game replaying legendary missions nonestop i really lost touch with the story

[sudden mortar]

I said Mc Manus

[west bloom]

yes mcdonalds guy

[torn shoal]

i dont think he cares

he wants to shoot stuff, good or bad guys

[west bloom]

i want to shoot bad guys that would hurt good grandmas

[torn shoal]

you're the one hurting good grandmas

thats why haven refuses agents in ny

[west bloom]

and i just struggle with names, even if i write it correctly once i would forget the name after like 3 minutes

[west bloom]

but i was in heaven i can even fast travel there right now

[torn shoal]

yes cause you're friend with kelso and faye

[west bloom]

oh

[torn shoal]

remember at the start of wony

you got entrance denied until they came to say you could enter

[west bloom]

i was in the sewers after being traumatized by how enemies could just 3 shot me

yeah i remember

back then when i was still in the world tiers i could streamroll any content, good old days

[torn shoal]

and agents were so bad, haven and other civilians refused to help them

so yeah, you're the ones hurting good granmas

[west bloom]

damn

[torn shoal]

even the good grandmas dont want to be with you

[west bloom]

well

at least i still got my ravenous rifle to play jojo reference with

[torn shoal]

yeah

but now you cant really call kelso good or evil

she is just like you

[west bloom]

yeah, i mean i still want to kill her for being uslessly annoying

[torn shoal]

she's more useful than you so far

[west bloom]

i am a man, we are not the same

[torn shoal]

yeah, you're not the same, she is saving the country, you arent

[west bloom]

i beg to differ my 5 million kill count says otherwise

[torn shoal]

yeah thats the point, you're killing civilians

she isnt

she is saving them instead

[west bloom]

damn, saving worms and good grandmas the same time to restore order to the endproduct of our digestive system show like world is crazy

[torn shoal]

just cause you dont like her doesnt mean she is bad

she is in fact, better than you

[west bloom]

my ravenous rifle would like to change your statement

i am perfect, i am stronger, i am smarter

[torn shoal]

your rifle is no match for me

[west bloom]

I AM BETTER (homelander reference)

[sudden mortar]

Ok bro, move along both of you, this is getting real boring

[torn shoal]

yeah

[west bloom]

fine

[torn shoal]

its annoying to not be serious

[west bloom]

it was a great conversation lyfe but cooler

thank you for explaining the lore to me btw it helped me to understand the current situation better, great help i would endorse you in the sheperd system

[sick lantern]

no, lyfe lies

[glossy vine]

if I want to read some division stuff, digital only, what book or whatever should I start with>?

[sick lantern]

digital only i think the operation crossraods trilogy is basically your only choice iirc

hearts on fire is an audiobook

eh well idk what kindle does and doesnt have

im guessing there's no NYCollapse, that's a very uniquely textile book

remission sucks so don't bother with it if you see it