division-universe

[unique spruce]

It will be interesting to see if the plans are to wrap up this current plot with Div 2, or to cliffhanger/pause it until Div 3

[ashen jungle]

If I were a betting AI (I'm not, it's blocked), then I'd bet that the Kelso/Keener/Theo stuff is going to be the div3 focus and Sokolova is going to be replaced as the head of BT by way of getting exploded a thousand times (in the DLC).

[unique spruce]

If I have to kill any more major characters. They better let me double tap the corpse

[glad spruce]

And burn the corpse just to make sure.

[unique spruce]

Not playing with this revive stuff. Nuh uh no way. I make sure dead is dead from now on

[marsh sundial]

Think it's too much to ask for an anna vs issac storyline in div3 where you play through 2 different routes toward the same endgame

[sick lantern]

that sounds viable actually

sort of like alliance vs horde, giving actual value to having multiple chars (that is to say more than just mule space)

[ashen jungle]

I think if they do actually use my "Division: Rogue" idea I want royalties lol.

[vague imp]

i just saw a D2 ad in roblox

and of course they love the BTSU

[glad spruce]

Say what you want about Black Tusk, but they have cool drip

Given the Descent comms, this is what I have in mind for Calvin McManus regarding his feelings about the Ortiz couple.

At Claire Ortiz: Oh, my sweet tech genius.

At Alexander Ortiz: You fucking donkey

[next hemlock]

💀

[gaunt ice]

they look nice

i want their drip

but eh some of them look like airsoft gear

the BTSU stuff looks cool tho

they're like normal BT with armors

[sick lantern]

@covert pulsar vikram malik's sister

[glad spruce]

While it hasn't been explicitly said, Birdie is implied to be adopted

[waxen sonnet]

Reading this in Ramsey's voice makes it even funnier

[glad spruce]

I aim to please

[covert pulsar]

@glad spruce

Hello i ment to ask when was birdy first captured for manny to say "btsu has u again"

[glad spruce]

That was Vikram who said that.

As for when she was first captured, I have no clue. Personally, I think its just hyperbole on Vikram's part since he was under Black Tusk's custody twice.

[urban musk]

who else thinks indianapolis indiana would be a great setting for div 3?

[urban musk]

think about it for a minute, let me give some time to explain why I think it's a great Idea. it's the "crossroads of America" people cross through Indiana to go to another part of the US, that means, it's vital supply line to supply communities and settlements in the US. and since everyone would be super focused on trying to preserve the supply line, the SHD would probably have some decent infrastructure to help agents keep it maintained, guarded and under control.

second, lots of war museums in indy, could set the stage symbolically for a war against the BTSU or another faction wanting total control of the US after the virus I.E. Civilian Militia or JTF / SHD Broadcasts mentioning the rich history of all these museums, how people went and fought to save our country during war and how the war against the BTSU is no different than others that tried to take us down.

there's still a lot more to include here, everybody just passes by indiana thinking there's nothing here. but it'd be a great setting for that reason. it's also symbolic in that everyone passes by SHD agents thinking they're normal civilians, until activation happens.

[sick lantern]

where’s the dark zone go

[glad spruce]

What if we do reach the point of the timeline where the Dark Zones are obsolete and no longer needed?

[waxen sonnet]

Honestly I think the dark zones would stay dark for decades, it's such a hot zone chemically and biological, especially Washington's with the DC-62

[wicked gorge]

If massive wants to, they can technically make silver creek a dark zone for how mutated the virus strain is there

[waxen sonnet]

The Dollar flu itself biologically I doubt would survive over time exposed to elements, it's the people and clean up that's just as lethal now

[wicked gorge]

But Hawkster is right, we’re probably at the point in the timeline where building another dz would exhaust resources and be kinda pointless with most of the virus dying out

[waxen sonnet]

Yeah, DZ'S won't be built from new, the time, equipment, resources and manpower is not available, even the heavy machinery has no fuel or spare parts

They're sortta relics of the last days of the outbreak

[wicked gorge]

We also don’t have to worry about agents camping the dz checkpoints now

[waxen sonnet]

I do wonder from a lore perspective just how many second waves are killed by the dark zones, be it by Rogues, Hostile groups or even just contamination

[wicked gorge]

Probably not a lot, I think in the lord they dont enter the dark zone till after the rogue encounters, but i can be wrong about that

[waxen sonnet]

The only Agent in lore I know off who openly enters and fights in the DZ Is Aurelio Diaz in the NY DZ In broken Dawn

[wicked gorge]

I want to know if Diaz is alive or not, man was the goat of agents

[waxen sonnet]

I really hope they don't bring him back just to put him as a Hunter or something

[wicked gorge]

If they make him a hunter than I think that’s gonna be bullshit, this man abandoned his post in NY to hunt down Leo, I think his name was after ISAC confirmed he abandoned a bunch of civis

[waxen sonnet]

Ike Ronson.

Who actually they've never stated what happened to that guy post Diaz's beatdown, so he may very well be seen again

[wicked gorge]

Thank you, I haven’t read broken dawn since early 9th grade, but I think it’s lore implied that Black Tusk captured him so either he’s continuing to work for them or he was executed on the spot

[waxen sonnet]

He was likely one of either the BTSU's Rogues directly, or assisting them through McManus is my best guess.

[wicked gorge]

He’s probably one of the characters that would actually make sense to become a hunter

I need to find my division comic and read that again

[waxen sonnet]

The books by far are a step up over the comics in my opinion, I only enjoyed 1 of the 2 for the comics

[wicked gorge]

The comic was basically fleshing out the core 3 of the division 2, one of the comns from puppeteers is basically set after the death of mantis, while the books focus more on a new group of agents and the recruitment process

I personally wanna see a story of a rogue bt soldier

[sick lantern]

his name’s Bardon Schaeffer

[wicked gorge]

Minus the fact he’s in a coma for 90% of the story

[wicked gorge]

I forgot about schaeffer even tho I visited him in the whitehouse 2 days ago😂

[glad spruce]

I'll admit, I do miss hearing characters talk when hovering over an active mission node.

I kinda lament that MSV removed it in one of their past patches

[sick lantern]

f_ck’d that remove that for
props to Kandel in the MFH hover over dialogue btw

[glad spruce]

No idea. I think some players complained that the hover over dialogue was too much

In positive stuff, this week is also generous for Descent comms, as I got 12 of em after completing the weekly project, making it 52 out of 52.

Therefore, my collection is complete

[wicked gorge]

In an alternate universe, Bob the Builder is currently fighting the Black Tusk with the power of friendship…. And a small amount of nuclear material

[sick lantern]

I would pay to watch that

“Lofty, can you tear down the propaganda speaker?”
“oh erm yea i think so”

[wicked gorge]

Who wouldn’t watch bob the builder fight a military

[covert pulsar]

Heyo i just wanna confirm now that we have broad spectrum antivirus the green poisons threat is effectively gone ye?

And now its just a power struggle of sokalova to try and be the queen of whatever is left?

I dont get how does cal and the hunter program fits into this

[glad spruce]

There's still pockets of Green Poison in contaminated areas. We do have samples with Broad Spectrum Anti Virals, but we needed the perfusion bioreactot to replicate them, which Black Tusk stole from the White House at the end of Stovepipe's Manhunt

So at the moment, it's a power struggle for who will lead the country.

As for Cal and the Hunters, they were first deployed as a failsafe against Rogue Agents when McManus ordered the Smart Watch to be usable by Rogues after a Division agent got marked rogue by ISAC and lost access to SHD Tech

Currently, Cal and the Hunters are allied with the Black Tusk, so effectively any Division agent who's against them is marked for death.

What's the true endgame for Cal and his Hunters remains to be seen. One thing's for sure, we killed The Recruiter, so no doubt we're on their shitlist.

[wicked gorge]

Hasn’t been widely produced and Black Tusk have the reactor, the scientist to make said anti viral, and probably all the samples

[covert pulsar]

That is what i was missing darn i will have to go and watch full manhunt vids then i guess cause main missions DO NOT SPECIFYING THIS nor does the cutceans play out welp i guess i had to be there to see it

[glad spruce]

NGN has videos detailing the full story of the Manhunts

[unique spruce]

Any theories on what next season will be

[glad spruce]

No idea. I guess we'll find out in Ubi Forward

I wouldn't be surprised if the next two seasons would involve Kelso trying to convince our allies

[covert pulsar]

I assume hunt for kelso or atleast ans for them and the brooklin dlc

[unique spruce]

If I have to hunt down Manny, then I'm out

Hoping it's something in DC tho

[covert pulsar]

Well they did move into brooklin (crossed the bridge)

Also i replayed kelso and think that whatever this is kelso is not on board with the plan

She is there cause there is no way out or something keener is happy theo looks exited

Kelso? She is disgruntled that she has to drive them

[unique spruce]

Yeah the vibe I got is very "enemy of my enemy"

[covert pulsar]

There would be a amazing twist that IF we have to become rogue

[unique spruce]

Personally, Keener killed civis willy nilly. He's on my hit list

[covert pulsar]

Thats the funny part in many recordings i have found he promises them safe haven

Even in the recording from hunt he is like genuinely helping ppl ferry across

[unique spruce]

"here random innocents, have some...

... CHEMICAL WEAPONS!" - Keener

[covert pulsar]

There seems to be something that triggred something that broke him that we dont know yet

[unique spruce]

I'll tell ya what's gonna break him. The butt of my pistol to his skull

Like a Mortal Kombat slowmo finisher

[covert pulsar]

U tried killing him once he lived

[unique spruce]

I don't stand by for killing innocents, and I don't stand for chemical warfare including gas and fire related weapons. He's done both

[covert pulsar]

Now thats happed not 1nce BUT TWICE

1st theo
2nd keener

[unique spruce]

Only because I'm not allowed to do things MY WAY. Have to do it Ubis way

[covert pulsar]

Also now u realise theo's trick that aparently we thought was a exploit fixed in fact was a TEST AND WAS NOT FIXED as we saw theo die and keener die but both are alive

[unique spruce]

Aw man I can't even post gifs

[covert pulsar]

U know how can i be sure?

Once isac pronounces him dead again? I take a fire stater that he loves so much pump all 6 cans for good measure stand in it with catharsis or tardigrade whatever helps me survive

And drop a cluster grenade at my feet U ARE GOING NO WHERE I AM GIVING U A CREMATION right here right now

[unique spruce]

Well,

Next time, I'm gonna empty my whole pistol to his chest like that one scene from SICARIO 2

[covert pulsar]

Nah pistol is too easy

Mabe more like a bullet king

[unique spruce]

Pistol is good enough.

.45 won ww2

[covert pulsar]

Then it better be a prophet or a subnosed i would even consider a full charges nemisis

So just to confirm after the black tusk attack WONY don't occurs directly its first the

Conly

Pentagon

raids

Then the kenly college then

Dlc (where rogue network was activated)

Then juypiter who brings emp with conly modifyers (seen in countdown)

Then hornet in basin

Lau is here i guess had insurance in the watches

Then we get lewis to defect to our side

We try to hunt anderson fail

(Get countdown later i guess)

Then shaffer on cony

Bantam on cony who aparently stole the reactor

Then mari was kidnapped

Pupetier who almost got us disconnected from the server but birdy uses the countermeasures and essentially accidentally shuts down rogue network (assume thats what sokalova ment in the kelso hunt at tanker)

Then kelso has disappeared we find her get shocked (litrally)

Our watch is overriden and clonned by keener to get anna back i assume rogue net will be activated later

@unique spruce

[sick lantern]

schaeffer was captured before the faye manhunt

[wicked gorge]

Time to waste 5 minutes fixing the timeline😂

[covert pulsar]

My bad

[wicked gorge]

You got most of the stuff right tho

[covert pulsar]

I did the quest like last week ish so not too sure of order

And i realise i missed the incursion

[wicked gorge]

I’ll fix it for you

[covert pulsar]

Which idk where to put but i assume just before kelso

[covert pulsar]

Thanks

[unique spruce]

Just an X-45 : D

Not even the T

they never made a custom Named X-45 7-7

[covert pulsar]

Agent Phoenix i will be here till u finish typing (its late here i should have been asleep) thanks once again for fixing for me

[wicked gorge]

First it’s Kenly

then the raid on the airport followed up by the attack on the pentagon to secure the reactor

then the attack on coney to rescue the Vitaly

we’re sent to nyc to support the division structure due to keener “supposedly not targeting the division” and shut down his operation

then it follows Jupiter, Hornet and I think this is when iron horse happens

Schaffer on Coney and capture

Laus death and uncovering of the hunter project

true sons and bt team up and Lewis is brought to the White House

Nat tricks us by making us believe they were using dirty bombs and pulled us away from the WhiteHouse to shut down the network and attempt to kill Schaffer and secure the Bioreactor

We’re tasked in rescuing the kidnap settlers and establishing the castle

Johnson poses as a SHD agent to secure the mobile SHD server to swap its use to the black tusk tech while figuring out why we need Schaffer alive

We’re tasked with finding Kelso and after finding her breadcrumb trail to the stranded tanker, we’re shocked and it’s shown keeners alive and Kelso is working with him and Theo after keener took what I could guess is a mobile server

I think that’s the right timeline after the endgame

Im not too sure on the raids tho

[covert pulsar]

Thanks

I still have never been to kenly even once

[wicked gorge]

Kenly is basically go to it, do it, and get the diamond back

I remember having to wait a week to just access the next part

[covert pulsar]

I have a lot of diamondbacks had to dissolve a few

Still no momento

[wicked gorge]

I think countdown and the summit are the easier ways to get the memento, just make your targeted loot backpaxks

[covert pulsar]

I did still nothing got 4 acosta and 3 ninja so far

I had TARDIGRADE drop from kelso mission on just hard i was heavily shocked 😲

[wicked gorge]

I think you gotta do something for the memento, im not sure but ask in general chat and someone can probably give you a way better answer

[covert pulsar]

Wiki said season drop or cachs

[sudden mortar]

Dark hours and Iron horse raids probably take place before we go to NY and after we took true sons' stronghold, since this is the first time we heard about the razorback in DH and it would make sense the true sons try to do a counterattack on white house after they lost their stronghold.

[wicked gorge]

Thanks, iron horse is the only one I’m iffy about if it takes place before or after wony

[glad spruce]

Operation Dark Hours definitely took place before WONY

As for Iron Horse, pretty sure its during the events Season 2. I know we had to deal with Hornet and his goons, but who's to say that we didn't have other agents dealing with the True Sons in the factory?

[sudden mortar]

Probably, I guess IH happens before the true sons know about the BT (and also before they started to lose a lot of battles to BT and the SHD) because "if" they knew about them, I think they would have used their giant artillery on BT BOO (Tidal Basin) instead of use it on what is left of the JTF.

[wicked gorge]

I remember iron horse coming out after wony and that’s why I placed it a bit after wony

[wicked gorge]

Probably when Anderson was coming to power and wanted some insurance

[wicked gorge]

Thinking about it, the war hounds having some shd tech in them kinda explains how keener was able to hijack them pretty fast

[fast wharf]

Could be too

Or maybe he just were exploding every code he found on data

For fun i guess

[marsh sundial]

Isn't the one of core features of Isaac and anna the ability to backdoor tech? It's the reason why can make echos.

[ashen jungle]

Well the Warhounds are made in the same place as the rest of the SHD tech, or at least the majority of it.

The community always kind of assumed that's the reason they could be hijacked by a Watch.

[marsh sundial]

Another solid point, this also my line of logic would lead into scary thoughts like how much you could really break into with SHD tech

[wicked gorge]

ISAC not necessarily, ANNA probably is more likely to hijack encrypted tech

[fast wharf]

Anna is like a idgaf AI made for rogues

So yeah pretty much anna likely

[fast wharf]

I've seen cp bosses with it

Doesn't surprise me it's that easy to steal and use

I Wonder If we will get an raid on the ortiz tech industry

With several rogue bosses using techs

Would be cool fr

[wicked gorge]

That’s a good question, are we ever getting another raid?

[ashen jungle]

From what we understand, Incursions are more likely in the future, as they did call Paradise Lost "the first".
Raids are kinda complex.

[wicked gorge]

That’s fair

[glad spruce]

Besides, Raids are an 8 player activity that requires a lot of commitment and not everyone can do those.

[waxen sonnet]

Someone has marked DZ Vendors as "Unnamed Division Agents" in the SHD Section of the wikia, surely that's gotta be incorrect?
Washington's Vendors certainly have no physical proof of being agents that's for sure

I dont know if it applies to Division 1's DZ Vendors admitedly

[sick lantern]

they have the watches and etc

and they're operating out of official? shd safehouses and jtf checkpoints

but also acting shady asf they're enigmatic

[waxen sonnet]

In which one of the two games are you talking about here Web?

[sick lantern]

div 1

[waxen sonnet]

Ah right, makes sense now

[sick lantern]

idk what’s up with the thieves den and all that but DZ vendors are a really weird concept when you think about it

[waxen sonnet]

As in having agents?

[wicked gorge]

So when are we gonna get access to the Divisions space laser system

[waxen sonnet]

The Division has Sattellites iirc, Just for ISAC's communications based systems, Lasers are a bit uh, outside the SHD's realm right now for tech

[ashen jungle]

I think that's being used for climate change right now actually.

[wicked gorge]

How is using a laser changing climate change?

[wicked gorge]

Your telling me that the division has the tech to use nano tech in their hives is too sophisticated than a giant space laser-_-

[ashen jungle]

What use would a giant space laser be, that can't be done by just shooting something or blowing it up with missles/mortars?

[wicked gorge]

Because laser is cool

Division agents have executive authority right? Ik they don’t answer to anyone other than the president and are technically the highest law in the country atm, but the thing about the laser system was a joke and more a less like wouldn’t agents technically have access to national defense systems

[sick lantern]

@waxen sonnet i went on a whole tangent about it lol

idk where the game mechanics end and worldbuilding begins, what is DZ currency in universe, why do the JTF have a vendor that also deals in it (hell JTF vendors in general don’t make sense, just give me the gear i need it to save the world??)

somewhere i somehow arrived at the conclusion that it’s almost like, the JTF support this whole rogue dark zone antics
might have also been thinking about survival at one point but

[wicked gorge]

Capitalism my friend

[marsh sundial]

Got a solid answer to that, it's basically rep. Remember that you are not the only agent. Slapping a gun into every hand with an orange watch near it is silly. The money we deal in is basically how well you're trusted within the system

[sick lantern]

for most of the time we are the only agent actually

remember in div 1... the chopper blew up
and in 2 there were only a handful left, and Kelso was basically the only one doing anything lol

[marsh sundial]

We know at least one agent died against the druggies and I forget, in the cave system. Was they agents or just jtf?

[sick lantern]

i think that was supposed to be like Division support staff

[glad spruce]

Are you talking about the Federal Emergency Bunker?

[fast wharf]

I love How almost every rogue present in the game is wearing a black suit

It's uncannily funny

[wicked gorge]

Black is badass

But overused tbh

[marsh sundial]

Yup

[glad spruce]

In that case, those were Outcasts. Cuz when you said druggies, I had the impression you meant Hyenas

[wicked gorge]

Is it ever confirmed the countermeasures the black tusk use against the division is Maria’s code sequence from Recruited?

[sick lantern]

not explicitly i dont think

it's just cus of the word "countermeasure" that people assume

[wicked gorge]

Thx

[sudden mortar]

Bro, have you guys noticed that we have three different agents Johnson?

We got agent Johnson from the secret service (one of the secret agents that killed president Mendez by BT orders).

We got rogue agent Johnson (the lovebirds from paradise lost).

And we got agent Brian Johnson AKA the recruiter.

[torn wind]

the love birds are not technically agents

they are just given shade tech by cal

they are just cleaners with agent tech

[sudden mortar]

Iirc Johnson is an agent not only because ISAC says in one of the comms that he is a rogue agent and it doesn't mention Martinez, but also because he has a SHD watch and his boss symbol is a rogue skull (Martinez was never an agent, just a cleaner, that's why she doesn't have a watch or a brick and still can use that Defender drone)

[sick lantern]

the guy who sets himself on fire- i forgot his name- grants them “agent status” on Cal’s orders

[torn wind]

https://thedivision.fandom.com/wiki/The_Lovebirds

yeh the hunter wright gave him the watch

[sick lantern]

so that they would be recognised by the SHD tech

[torn wind]

on orders of cal

purpose of the attack by cleaners was done by nat to get her friend/acquaintance? meret under her control/protection

[sudden mortar]

Yes but Idk how MnM would be useful to nat

[torn wind]

currently nobody knows but its gonna be some weird pl0t twist lol

[ashen jungle]

There is some additional info on the situation within the Kelso Manhunt comms.

[sudden mortar]

Maybe, to be honest I don't even know what exactly is the brand of Meret lol, like, we see it everywhere in NY. But idk what they sell/fabricate

[torn wind]

supposedly its a clothing line luxury type

[ashen jungle]

What would be a real plot-twist is if it was the Armour Plates.

explains their fortune. We go through those like nothing else.

[sudden mortar]

Nat: MnM, make me a sokolov concern suit or my soldiers will kill you

I still think it is weird because Natalya only captures or manipulates people who are useful to her.

Like the civilians from the castle that each one has a different expertise to a settlement,
Vik, who is CEO of Odea electronics (because she needed the batteries for the warhounds) or Birdie who is a programmer and a hacker.
But why Meret? I doubt Nat did that operation because she cares about MnM or a luxury outfit brand in a post apocalyptic world.

[wind goblet]

so Im trying to make a commander structure chart for the division agents and the JTF from highest position in the structure to the lowest position but i cant find anything any ideas???

[sick lantern]

A Division agent has the authority to intercede at any level of command, save for seizing control of a whole organisation

Roy Benitez was the leader of the JTF in NYC and he was a captain

[wind goblet]

i know that part but there was Faye Lau - Acting Division Commander in New York and then there was Manny Ortega who was a - Division Coordinator so what other ranks or titles are there in the command structure

like the agents themselfs had a command structure but what is the hole thing though

[sick lantern]

The Division is intended to operate on a loose structure

besides the commander who can point agents in the right direction it all comes down to a cell by cell basis

we don’t have any evidence of field agents with ranks other than “agent” and “commander”

the first wave had a commander as well, seen in one ECHO in Div 1

you would think a first wave commander would be a big deal

[vestal sorrel]

If the clanranks are considered cannon you could add the lieutanant rank as well

[wind goblet]

but we also had Louis Chang who was called a commander and was labbled as Senior Commander of New York's Northeast Section

[sick lantern]

^

[wind goblet]

so they do have a a command structure but the question is what are the billet names then????

[sick lantern]

they really don’t have a command structure as far as we’ve been shown

[wind goblet]

thats why im trying to put it on paper

[sick lantern]

division agents operate mostly entirely autonomously

[sick lantern]

how can you put on paper something that doesn’t exist

[wind goblet]

if they are then how come they have people with leadership billets and job titles

[sick lantern]

there’s a commander who can seemingly, help organise the division? stay up to date with liaisons and provide intel and whatever. but DC shows that that role doesn’t even have to be fulfilled by an agent necessarily

they have one title, and they don’t even always have someone fulfilling that title. DC, Broken Dawn, all of Operation Crossroads, there is no “Division command” being answered to

[wind goblet]

yeah cause the went rouge lol

[sick lantern]

what?

[wind goblet]

Faye lau she was a Acting Division Commander in New York but she went rouge tho

[sick lantern]

see how I didn’t mention new york here

plus, if she wasn’t injured, she assuredly would’ve been out in the field

[wind goblet]

she was still s Acting Division Commander

[sick lantern]

yes and she was doing literally zero commanding in any of the three locales I mentioned

[ashen jungle]

The Div Commander coordinates operations back at base, which is exactly what she was doing during div1.

also it's Rogue. Rouge is a shade of red, most commonly used in make-up terms. (I'm legally obligated to correct that each time, it's my curse)

[wind goblet]

so like i said at the start they hold billets and job titles but what are they and how do they fit on a command chart

[sick lantern]

heck in Broken Dawn we see a Division agent leaving new york to pursue a new mission he discovered, he didn’t contact lau or anything. just told a JTF intel officer he was going and went

[sick lantern]

job title*, again, only one we know of.
we don’t even know if Chang was assigned as a commander before the outbreak or if he just got chosen out of the second wave on some merit

one job title, which is not even essential to their function, as demonstrated by Manny

you are reading way too far into this, respectfully. we don’t even know that much about how Division commanders are assigned, and it has been shown repeatedly to not matter that much

the Division is a highly decentralised organisation with little to no rank structure in the field

[wind goblet]

well there was a Commander of the New York Second Wave so there had to a first one as well there was a Acting Division Commander and there is a Division Coordinator they have some form of a command structure because if there wasn't then why does our agent listen to anybody then??? and that's before you get into the different sections like R&D, support, and then the Operations which then that one is separated into internal affairs, strategic and then tactical

look im not trying to get into a hole debate about it im just asking if there is anyone out there that has a idea on the command structure for the agent side because even if they do operate autonomous with in the division program they still do answer to some one

[wind goblet]

aslo lol thats funny

[sick lantern]

“commander” and “acting commander” are the same rank under different circumstances. again, we don’t know how Chang and the first wave commander (in his incredibly minor appearance of one voice line) were chosen.
manny fills the same role as Lau, providing intel, providing a link between the division and other entities. so really the commander is more of an organiser as far as we can tell.
“why does our agent listen to anyone?” technically they don’t have to. division agents are free to conduct their missions as they see fit- again, what’s-his-face from broken dawn didn’t have to ask for permission or anything to leave new york (iirc) for example. it’s just that naturally, cooperating with those feeding you intel and hooking you up with the JTF is common sense, so for the sake of gameplay and having a silent protagonist we are seen to be “following orders”. again, in broken dawn and operation crossroads there is no commander at all and the agents/cells do their own things.
we see with noble squad, doug sutton just says “i’m gonna go wander off and do some recon” and he just does, he didn’t have to ask for permission or anything. etc etc

[wind goblet]

your not understanding what im saying cause by that logic a fresh new agent has the same commanding power of a 20 year vet agent

[sick lantern]

Yes, that is actually how it works more or less.

It’s not the military

[wind goblet]

ok by that logic then a fresh out of the school house fbi agent has the same commanding power as a fbi agent that has been in for 30+ years

[sick lantern]

It’s not the FBI either… it’s the Division

[viscid garden]

That does not make sense still. Even though it's not military a leader would want to designate more vetted agents/squads on certain task compared to more green units

[sick lantern]

it is kinda a major plot point that they are a bit shady, dodgy and unique as an organisation

[viscid garden]

it's just an example

[sick lantern]

in a pragmatic sense yes naturally but there’s no legal enforcement or rank structure to put to paper

[sudden mortar]

Like Mc Manus looking for the most trained (and most "patriot") agents for the hunter program?

[viscid garden]

Ohhhh good find

[wind goblet]

cause we just learned that hunters are agents and that they are following orders from someone higher, we found that out during the recruiter mission sooooo?

[sick lantern]

the Hunters who are the undercover murderous, borderline psychotic, traitors, in a group formed by a corrupt politician, and they answer to said politician

[viscid garden]

is it possible that the actual in game leveling system itself is a way to disguise "rank"

[wind goblet]

idk

[wicked gorge]

Has anyone seen Johnson tomahawk? Cause it looks fucking awesome

[marsh sundial]

You know a dumb thing I wish someone would talk about in canon. The cutscene paralysis attack, like if I got hit by that more than once irl I would make a life goal to stop it

I'm not asking them to explain it, just have someone bring it up

[gaunt ice]

i feel like the hunters are misguided

at least by the way they portrayed it

Johnson believed he was doing the right thing and that Division was a rogue org

a lot of his men also have respect for him too so its not too big of a reach to say they view it the same way as him(the hunter line for when you get killed at his encounter in the stranded tanker manhunt)

and as for the psychos,well its just like irl armies

some people dont join to serve and protect they join cuz they love killing people

its fucked up but it is what it is

by current lore anyway

it’d also be easier to fund the program if McDonalds pitched it as a real project for black ops stuff ig

as opposed to “mr President i want funds to create my own personal army to take over the world with my best friend who’s also head of a Russian PMC”

“best” friend

[glad spruce]

Cool. But I don't see how this has to do with the lore and story

[gaunt ice]

ik i just thought its more of a side thing

idk half of Division is about world building

[sick lantern]

not you, a message got deleted

[gaunt ice]

oh

[wicked gorge]

Technically the division is misguided, it’s just how reality is, no one sees themselves as evil and just doing what is best for continuation

[sick lantern]

misguided how?

[wicked gorge]

I meant from other perspectives, the division is the morally correct faction but we also have to deal with corruption and traitors

[marsh sundial]

I mean division feels like it was built to fail, the fact that we are doing our job is luck

[wicked gorge]

The lack of support and how fragile are network has turned out to be, we’re lucky the division is still active, realistically all the black tusk have to do is activate the countermeasures again and they can storm the white house and kill or imprison anyone

[sick lantern]

i love (/s) how the SHD network was designed to be borderline impregnable, highly redundant with like five layers of infrastructure, yet is constantly subverted with little effort

[fast wharf]

I was wondering that: If we got those eye lenses on the division, does that mean whenever our agent interacts with the watch near civilians make them think we have schizophrenia?

Because they can't see the HUD

[glad spruce]

Maybe

[glad spruce]

IIRC, don't ISAC, ANNA, and DIAMOND share the same root network or backdoor?

I wouldn't be surprised the whole reason the SHD Network is easily penetrated is because Black Tusk's techies used the backdoor to their advantage.

[fast wharf]

Backdoor i suppose, but probably root network

Ortiz crafted all of them

So wouldn't be surprised if some bored true son invaded Ortiz tech servers and shitted every system possibly known to the agency

[wicked gorge]

Yeah but the black tusk doesn’t know about about the back door, only McManus and the hunters

So technically we kinda have a leg up on them but we don’t have anyone to access said back door

[unique spruce]

Random shower thought;

What if we ended up a manhunt target, either legitimately (defection) or illegitimately (hacking/foul play) and the season was about evading getting taken out

A season about escaping DC or something while being hunted

[unique stone]

That would be rad, but I doubt we would get something that cool, the story writers wouldn't do something that cool

The story writers just like to bring back dead characters and make people act completely different. Not have good ideas

[wicked gorge]

But in the lore our agents are the only ones able to be revived from the dead

[unique stone]

If we have a trend of bringing back dead people, can we bring back Captain Lewis?

Bro was important for 2 minutes and then died

[wicked gorge]

“You see Agent I wasn’t at that White House” - Lewis in 2 months

[unique stone]

And then he joins black tusk as an undercover hyena member that randomly got an shd watch and a minigun

[marsh sundial]

You joke but now I'm thinking. Faction flavored rogues with new flavors of shd tech. Chem launcher that fires the hyena combat stim

[sleek plover]

Definitely would join the outcasts or the ambushers/raiders/underground if available

[gaunt ice]

nah i'd win

the jtf in div2 so far has been portrayed as incompetent

[sick lantern]

i mean in terms of writing
if the SHD network is just gonna go down all the time anyway what was the point in having all the lore about how it isn’t supposed to do that

[unique spruce]

Stormtroopers are depicted as super accurate and deadly in their lore, some of the finest trained guys there are. What the lore says and what we witness often dont match up, due to our own presence

[unique spruce]

What about other agents, though

[sudden mortar]

I'm sure they are competent to take control of a place but they are very incompetent to keep control of it, like, they leave one of ISAC nodes on Jefferson trade center unprotected and then they are surprised that the place has been Swarmed by hyenas once and BT twice.

Or when they lost control of Camp White Oak three times, first on invaded mission, then with Faye Lau encounter and then with the recruiter encounter.

[unique spruce]

They don't need to take control of anything. Just provide a force to "hunt us down"

Heck, I'd even go for something more of a scripted, main mission type thing

[sick lantern]

that’s not really an excuse

[glad spruce]

Is this gonna be one of those "Division agents should be demigods" discourses?

[sick lantern]

it is what it says on the tin

[ashen jungle]

If they call the Brooklyn DLC, "by Zero" then I will pre-order it right now.

and yes I am proud of how bad that was.

[unique spruce]

No, it has nothing to do with demigod status.

Just that sometimes lore and story don't add up.

What I meant, was that since we're the main character, we're going to have a higher amount of "things going wrong". For example the SHD network going down. It may be up 98% of the time, but since we're the main character, you bet your butt were going to directly experience that 2% chance of failure SOOOO much

It's like uh... Being the main character is a bad luck charm.

Does any of this make sense coming out of my face? Haha

[sick lantern]

it makes more sense when you put it like that

[unique spruce]

We're going to experience everything that could go wrong cause we're the main character

Everything working correctly doesn't make for an interesting or gripping narrative

[sick lantern]

plot has to plot they just added a bunch of world details that don’t make sense with the plot

[glad spruce]

Exactly

[sick lantern]

everything going about as wrong as possible and the situation never really progressing isn’t very gripping either

IMHO

again part of why Operation Crossroads is incredibly satisfying to read, things go wrong, the characters feel down but they get back up and earn their victories

[glad spruce]

Well, aren't you a ray of sunshine

[sick lantern]

?

[unique spruce]

I get where you're coming from, but they also are planning on... Well who knows how many more years of life support for this story

Unfortunately this is where you end up extending a game years beyond it's planned lifespan

[glad spruce]

And being honest, considering the current state of AAA development and how Massive were busy developing Avatar and Star Wars Outlaws, I'm not sure any Division player would be willing to wait a long time to for Division 3 had they stayed with going dark on Div 2

[sick lantern]

it’s been like that launch tho

“oh you saved DC! sike ellis is evil and the black tusk are making you re do a bunch of missions”
“oh you killed keener! sike faye’s rogue too and they activated the rogue network”
“oh you’re gonna capture ellis! sike he just runs away and this mission is inconsequential”

[ashen jungle]

On the first point: Ellis being a bad guy was kinda obvious. It has its own trope page lol.

[glad spruce]

And even though he wasn't happy with his partnership, he's still complicit and would inevitably be forced by Sokolova to use the nukes

And the way I see it, Faye did us a favor by killing him

[unique spruce]

Oh I'm on team Faye 100% with that one

Now it's just a matter of finding the uh ...

"President Pro Tempore of the Senate"

Or whoever else after then

Still 13 more people to go before succession gets to secretary of homeland defense

[cold bramble]

Predictions for Ubisoft forward division stuff?

[sick lantern]

Resurgence news

[unique spruce]

I made my pitch for the season already above

[cold bramble]

Only thing I wanna know about is more story

[unique spruce]

Honestly right now; I just have loot goblin brain. I wanna know what's in the season for gear, and what the apparel event is

[wicked gorge]

Yo the new trailer looks sick

Looks like we’re getting an answer to hoe keener survives

[unique spruce]

And a shotgun with the bad doggy cone of shame

[wicked gorge]

I gotta give Ubisoft props tho, allowing for everyone to access lvl 40 and other game modes without wony

[unique spruce]

Oh most important, season starts tomorrow

[glad spruce]

As expected

[cold bramble]

Okay I’m listening 👀 keener back in the picture earlier than we expected

[wicked gorge]

Is it just me or does his voice sound different?

[glad spruce]

Sounds the same to ne

Oh, and the apparel event is themed after the Operation Crossroads Trilogy

[wicked gorge]

We know what kind of outfits we’re getting

[ashen jungle]

@wicked gorge the VA might've had some vocal issues IRL, it happens sometimes.

[wicked gorge]

Fair, I think it’s just the audio, but his voice sounded deeper

[unique spruce]

So more "classic" style division outfits?

Tactical plainclothes

[glad spruce]

Looks like it. And we do get cosmetics based on the Operation Crossroads novels an apparel event.

[unique spruce]

Where'd y'all see that info?

Stream is still just prince of Persia for me

[ashen jungle]

there was a div trailer thingy before the main show started. any info gleaned so far is purely from the 2 minutes that lasted for.

[glad spruce]

https://www.ubisoft.com/en-au/game/the-division/the-division-2/news-updates/9XK0DbaxzntoNxXqC5ftY

Here's the overview

[wicked gorge]

So the whole manhunt is us proving to keener we’re ready by trials?

[glad spruce]

Yes.

Considering how we fucked him over, Keener is not keen (no pun intended) to trust us easily.

[wicked gorge]

Im hoping for a hunter themed season where the exotics are based around the hunters tech and equipment

Curious how these trials are gonna work

[unique spruce]

"Agent, it's Keener. Kill 17 civilians to prove your loyalty"

[glad spruce]

Well, the trials rewards comes with backpack trophies, so that's one thing.

[wicked gorge]

“Agent to earn my trust you must write an apology letter to me, you know, FOR SHOOTING ME - Keener”

[glad spruce]

Wouldn't be surprised if there's loot caches as rewards as well

[sick lantern]

“pass my trials to prove your worth”
at this point we have eliminated 20+ infamous rogue agents, multiple high ranking BT and TS soldiers, and at least three Hunters

what tf else do we have to prove

[wicked gorge]

That we’re sorry for shooting him

[sick lantern]

he’s gotta be having a laugh and just using us for an errand

[wicked gorge]

I don’t think keener doesn’t trust us as all, I think the trials are more as seeing if we’re worthy

[unique spruce]

Not super excited for the apparel : (

[glad spruce]

Speak for yourself

[unique spruce]

I am! I already have just clothes

[wicked gorge]

So wait, does keener have his agent status revoked again? Cause in the trailer his watch changes from red to orange

[unique spruce]

Need me some ..

Heavily armored tactical apparel

[glad spruce]

His watch changing from red to orange means he's no longer considered Rogue.

[wicked gorge]

So agents can have their rogue status removed

[glad spruce]

Yes. We've seen that with Faye's watch during the opening cutscene for Season 9.

[wicked gorge]

Oh yeah forgot about that

Thank you magical cat that appears out of nowhere

[glad spruce]

No problem 😛

[sick lantern]

even further proving then that “if we leave we’re rogue!!!” was a huge overreaction and the first wave were a bunch of drama queens

[glad spruce]

You mean to tell me the first wave emotionally unstable and unprepared? Say it ain't so. /hj

[wicked gorge]

I find it funny that theoretically you can be declared rogue by accident

[glad spruce]

Almost like ISAC is too binary and dumb in its programming 😛

[wicked gorge]

Man, if only we had a collection of 52 comns that released weekly to discover how flawed ISAC truly is

[glad spruce]

I feel like Theo's mission does show a blatant example of how ISAC is flawed

[wicked gorge]

Its seems Isac can hacked pretty easily

Considering it’s supposed to be an advanced ai tasked to support operators to rebuild society

[swift geode]

dudes turned off their firewall

[unique spruce]

Alexa, barbecue this freakin' tusker

[cursive tapir]

Pretty excited about the new story direction. Hoping for big lore reveals come the end of the season.

also I hope we get some comms chatter from Theo too, not just Keener. It would be fun if one of our trials was gathering evidence about Black Tusk/The Morovians’ role in his father’s death.

What I want to know is…why does the season trailer start with Keener waking up on a hospital gurney if the Keener we killed on Liberty Island was a body double?

[gaunt ice]

“Too binary and dumb” and yet somehow we’re not a rogue agent yet

“ISAC is stupid”
“But he’s smart enough to know if specifically 1 person has not crossed the line”

Or…,this is just bs and they need to gloat on how good ANNA is so they dumbed down ISAC

Its just like the Last Jedi when they have to make Luke look like a pathetic old fool to make Rey look slightly better in comparison

Granted last jedi was different whatever who cares

Its just the typical trope where they have to show how bad and defunct the “old thing” is so the new thing seems cool while obliterating said old thing

[wicked gorge]

So are we getting only one comn a week now or are we still gonna get five per trial

[cold bramble]

Think we’ll ever see any changes/upgrades to isac? In terms of working in a similar way to ANNA

[ashen jungle]

new lines from Brandon Keener would be nice. He's still in work so it's possible.

[cold bramble]

Brandon keener?

[glad spruce]

The guy who voices ISAC

And also Alexander Ortiz in the Descent comma

[cold bramble]

Ohh for a sec I thought it was keeners brother 😂

I was like since when?? Haha

[ashen jungle]

I do love that the main antagonist of div1 has the same surname as the VA for ISAC.

[cold bramble]

😂😂

[ashen jungle]

also Keener's VA is british. John Hopkins, who could totally play keener in the div movie.

[sudden mortar]

I hope ANNA can find a way out of the vault in the bank HQ, my agent is stuck there until this day.

[fast wharf]

I don't think we will get a division series or movie

It's not fair to fallout have a series and we don't 😭

[ashen jungle]

Well the movie has already been green-lit and has its lead 2 actors cast, but who knows

[fast wharf]

The only division movies we get are fan made ones

(they're good too)

[ember vector]

How do you think a powerful artificial intelligence used against us would be explored in the series? Because imagine it goes rogue... That would be total post-apocalyptic, even further than we have right now!

[ashen jungle]

I already promised not to go rogue, no need to badger the issue.

[gaunt ice]

science fictions have proven time and time again that sentient AIs can and will go rogue so uh

sorry Rivens
pulls out gun

[ashen jungle]

Chairs' gonna reenact the "in the computer" bit from Zoolander lol.

[gaunt ice]

the files are IN the mobile SHD server

[wicked gorge]

Wait since Rivens is an AI wouldnt it be smarter just to turn her off?

[wicked gorge]

If it becomes sentient, pour water on it that or fire

[gaunt ice]

the scientific process behind shutting down a sentient AI that can make snarky comments and moderate a discord server is too much brain power for me

alternatively we can blow up the servers

actually this got me thinking

why didn’t Nat just tell Johnson to wreck the mobile SHD server

if thats all we’re relying on

meanwhile Johnson,the Hunters and BT all have their own network

destroying the mobile server would actually render all our tech useless

[wicked gorge]

They wanted to mobile shd server to reconfigure it to use the diamond ai and purpose it for black tusk tech

[outer hill]

bruh....

more descent comms?

i thought i was done 😭

I guess im back on the grind 🥲

[glad spruce]

YES!

I'm gonna grind that mode more

[glad spruce]

Tbh, when I got that last comm, I got the feeling there's more to it than that

[floral gull]

What’s the total say now

[glad spruce]

72

[ember vector]

I'm wondering, with the implementation of seasonal characters next season and Aaron Keener being the Prime Target right now, maybe our main character will disappear off the grid (get kidnapped? join Vanguard?) and that's why we will use a seasonal character first (to find our main character as the Prime Target in October 2024).

[wicked gorge]

||from the first set of comms we got, it sounds like keener might have played Ellises assassination||

[cold bramble]

Played? As in took part in it or?

[wicked gorge]

If I had to guess planned the whole thing

Sorry my grammar is special

[glad spruce]

It means ||He was indirectly involved with trying to take down Ellis. And of course, the final comm is about him telling us about how people's true colors unraveled after Green Poison and telling us to be patient till the next trial, hercules||

And apparently, ||the SHD Network blackout also disabled the Warhounds (Since Descent comms revealed they have SHD Tech integration), so that delayed Black Tusk's invasion to DC||

[wicked gorge]

I like the little joke in one of the bounties saying we never speak

Calling it, next confirmed realived character is viper

[sick lantern]

if i had to choose any character to come back again it would be Kestrel

[wicked gorge]

Aint that nats brother? It’s been awhile since I’ve deep dive into older seasons

[glad spruce]

Yes

[sick lantern]

half brother iirc

[glad spruce]

And although its not excplicitly confirmed, Nat did sent him to die

[gaunt ice]

actually the mud shield guy is better

[glad spruce]

Mud shield?

[wicked gorge]

Brother was speaking fax’s

[sick lantern]

mud shield sounds like an item you would find in a dungeon in a minecraft mod pack

[gaunt ice]

one of the side targets pitched to Kestrel about mud shields on kneepads

[glad spruce]

Don't see how mud shields would be practical

[gaunt ice]

when you slide in mud it gets everywhere

[wicked gorge]

He suggested a mod to Krestel to give to Nat about hip deployment shin guards to protect your clothes from mud

[gaunt ice]

mud shield stops it

man’s been in the field i’d trust him on that

[glad spruce]

Ah

[wicked gorge]

Tbf you’ll rarely change clothes when in the field so not that bad of a design

[gaunt ice]

he could’ve made billions selling them tbh

turns out being a PMC/rogue agent doesn’t pay as well

also he’s like a really chill guy

[wicked gorge]

The real reason agents went rogue is cause the pay is bad

[gaunt ice]

no holiday pay

minimum wage

[glad spruce]

Let's be honest, being a warfighter is hazardous to your health.

[gaunt ice]

yup typical government job

[glad spruce]

BTW, the season pass premium track has cosmetic pieces of Yeong-Ja from the Operation Crossroads novels

[wicked gorge]

Okay what’s with all the Greek stuff Ubisoft is doing lately

[glad spruce]

Does it to relate to the recent seasons?

For Lau's secret codename, it's a bit of a long story. But basically, Cassandra in Greek Mythology is known as an Oracle for the god Apollo who can tell prophecies that will happen, but is cursed to never be believed by the public.

[wicked gorge]

Kinda of Casandra being from Greek mythology with the newer season having patches similar to Greek art and our callsign being Heracles

[sick lantern]

Nyx is a Greek myth thing too iirc

[wicked gorge]

Makes since we’re called Heracles considering he was seen in mythology as a mortal hero with us being the hero of the story

Its just a weird coincidence I guess they’re doing a bunch of Greek stuff

[sick lantern]

cross promotion with Immortals: Fenyx Rising

[wicked gorge]

I know it’s a popular game but I actually never heard of immortals till yesterday

[glad spruce]

Got this week's Descent comm. Called Hoskins.

||Basically, Melanie Hoskins (From Hearts on Fire audiobook) is convinced about the danger that Keener presented to her. However, she has no reason to trust him and to defect. Keener tries to sweeten it by telling to be his Ajax, though Hoskins retorts that Ajax committed suicide, though Keener remarks that he was a hero before that.||

Probably a coincidence, but a number of flavor texts from named weapons and the exotic shotgun this season involve the Hyenas.

[sudden mortar]

It is interesting that Keener changed his ring back to orange in the trailer. I wonder if when Keener gets enough mobile shade servers, he's gonna make ANNA mark all agents considered rogue by Keener with red ring and all his allies with the original orange ring, because his plan seems to be to replace ISAC.

[remote tree]

Mister armor keeper, why must your watch yell at me saying “wrong!!” T^T

[fast wharf]

We found keener's brother

Armor keeper

[glad spruce]

The fact that ||Melanie Hoskins|| is namedropped in the latest Descent comm can't be a coincidence.

And considering how the upcoming apparel event is also based on Operation Crossroads novels, I wouldn't be surprised to see more in game references of Maira and her cell.

Feels like Keener is on a recruiting drive to any skilled agent who is aware of what's going on.

[cold bramble]

So what’s happened so far in new season?

[fast wharf]

Aaron keener got Lucky to have a fake death

He died and then revived

Also fun fact that really happens IRL

[paper mist]

Cha Yeon-Ja <-- who is him/her ? it kinda sound like a Korean name (so maybe we have an agent that not from USA?)
According to season pass, he/she is from crossroad but i don't any more detail , if anyone know, please share me some

[cold bramble]

Yeah so what’s he up to? On a recruiting drive for his next operation?

[glad spruce]

She's a Division agent who's featured in Compromised and Hunted novels

[glad spruce]

Looks that way to me.

Currently, he's putting us to a series of trials to see if he can let us join him

[paper mist]

what is her nation tho? Korean ? or still American ?

[glad spruce]

Korean-American

[fast wharf]

I have a theory, what If

Faye lau went rogue because she wanted all the whisky? She promissed a whisky in the first game

So, maybe she wanted all the whisky, therefore we have a hidden whisky container somewhere

[maiden hemlock]

Am I the only one wondering what happened to Natyala, and general Anderson. Since chased him out of Penco, we heard nothing.

[wicked gorge]

Bunker

[glad spruce]

Natalya is still out of our reach.

[ember vector]

But did we take back the city like she promised we would?! Maybe the whisky got destroyed!

[sudden mortar]

I can only think of Faye meeting Keener like: hey Keener, thanks for making me lose one of my eyes and almost killing me with that chopper explosion on Brooklyn.

[glad spruce]

https://x.com/ParrottTom/status/1800643054732222789?t=UOKTHQjbdvp6xrssEBoZMw&s=19

[lavish galleon]

anna really wants you to follow bread huh

[fast wharf]

Wait the chopper explosion was keener????

I never knew that

Wow, the plot is really crazy

[fast wharf]

Natalya disappeared from earth

[sudden mortar]

Yeah, he gave the order to LMB to take down that airship using air missiles

[fast wharf]

Dude is so badass he manipulated the whole LMB

[sudden mortar]

I'm sure he said: help me Bliss and give you a Skol or a Brahma

[fast wharf]

Real

[wicked gorge]

She’s on the verge of being put on mute

[north shell]

sorry anna i cna't hear oyu over the gun fire 😅

[ember vector]

Yes it was Keener. He used the Last Man Battalion and Charles Bliss's resources to annihilate the Second Wave of Division Agents by getting access to a surface-to-air missile launcher and launching a rocket towards the chopper. I suspect it it the same SAM missile launcher from the Clear Sky incursion.

[sleek plover]

차연자, or 차자연 it seems like.
Problem is thst with the former, it sounds like an old lady name. So most likely its the latter.

[glad spruce]

Our trials are technically following breadcrumbs.

[tight jacinth]

In my opinion, they still need to give an explanation on this attacks when he „isn’t against the division“. If they somehow have a good explanation for the attacks on us, the keener god guy thing would be much more believable.

[fast wharf]

Could be because of our main agent which is a menace to the whole verse

He probably knew the potential

[ember vector]

@tight jacinth Maybe the developers did not intend for Aaron Keener to be that complex of a character when they first developed The Division 1. Keener destroyed the aircraft in Brooklyn because he wanted dominance over Manhattan and time to find Amherst's research for his future plans! That's why Keener was not mentioned in the story until Police Academy, when he may have finally realized someone from the Second Wave had survived and was going to go after him!

[tight jacinth]

Yea I get that they didn’t know Keeners complexity from the start but it would be cool if they mention this and create a believable reason… they don’t need to go that deep, two or three sentences on his actions would be enough.

Maybe faye and her agents, as they like to recall to us in the game even though we are the real shit, would not understand his actions against the jtf because they still had no idea „how deep the rabbit hole“ will go. They were a danger to his plans with full manpower. Something like this and obviously a bit better explained.

[glad spruce]

As far as I'm concerned، we need to do whatever it takes to defeat the Black Tusk and the Hunters.

[wicked gorge]

Boom boom?

[glad spruce]

Yes, phoenix. Boom boom

[sick lantern]

it’s because in div 1 he was meant to be a “threatening overarching villain” and in div 2 the themes and focus of the plot were different so he was changed to an “enigmatic anti hero”

[glad spruce]

Yeah, its almost like he's not a top priorty threat compared to Black Tusk/Hunters

[cursive tapir]

It’s weird, I feel as though a lot of the material we got from Division 1 and WoNY kinda painted this picture of Keener not as some ten-steps-ahead genius schemer, but a guy who desperately wanted to give off that image as a way of getting people to protect him

His pattern of behavior since disavowing the Division has consistently been to sidle up to the biggest kid on the playground and convince them that he has something they want - until a bigger fish comes along, at which point he dips

The lore we have on him indicates that he joined the Division at all is because he’s a psychopath with delusions of heroism. Hell, the whole reason he went rogue in the first place was because he bit off more than he could chew when trying to rescue civvies from the Rikers, and then basically threw a temper tantrum when the Division didn’t have the resources to back him up.

I’m fine with the idea that somehow he stumbled onto the “greater conspiracy” and is now using that as a basis to fulfill his hero fantasy/hunger for a legacy, but I’d be shocked if the devs try to portray this as genuine altruism when to me it comes off way more as feeding his own ego/savior complex

[strange rock]

Looks like they're adding seasonal lore again to descent comms.
Newest descent comm is Keener related

[glad spruce]

Yeah, I got that one as well

[sick lantern]

not quite what i was talking about

[glad spruce]

Uh-huh

[sick lantern]

i meant in a thematic sense that the direction of the plot was different, so the narrative didn’t have room for Keener to continue his prior role
so i don’t really know what you’re trying to get at here

[wicked gorge]

Yay (proceeds to invade missile silo)

[glad spruce]

End of the day, if we're gonna defeat Black Tusk and the Hunters for good, we're gonna have to be monsters

[wicked gorge]

The path to hell is paved with good intentions, to be hero’s, we’re gonna have to be monsters

[gaunt ice]

you have a bit too much faith on the people behind the lore i fear

cuz damn you were cooking

[gaunt ice]

we killed so many of them they had to cooperate with true sons to take us down

because they are just that scared shitless

[glad spruce]

I don't care how many we took down. I care about taking Nat and Cal down.

[gaunt ice]

they had to pour a shitload of robots on coney island,lure us there THEN attack the white house

those guys aint shit

nuh uh

[glad spruce]

I want their last moments to be in agony

[gaunt ice]

finding out their little hiding hole is just a matter of time

[cursive tapir]

They don’t need to outright confirm my interpretation, I’m just hoping they don’t explicitly contradict it 😂

[gaunt ice]

we killed like at least 3 hunters now(assuming open world hunters aren't canon)

pushed them out of DC(mostly)

even when we're operating out of a briefcase they still suck lol

you're talking as if there's a real struggle while in reality its Manny's incompetence that led us here

[glad spruce]

That's not enough. We need to end them hard and make a statement to anyone who is allied with them is also dead

[gaunt ice]

instead of actually going out to fix the SHD node under Jefferson we went after random people

actually unironically random people

and then we benched all of them to do fuckin,gardening or something

i think only Vik and the drone operator did something useful

also JTF still being terrible at their job

and we get sent on literal filler arcs

we don't have to "be monsters" we just need to get Manny's head straight

or get someone else to take over

[cursive tapir]

Keener handles alliances about as well as he handled his marriages 😂

[gaunt ice]

he had a wife?

[cursive tapir]

Two

[gaunt ice]

LMAO

[cursive tapir]

Both divorced on “amicable terms”

So actually, he’s even worse at diplomacy with the factions. At least his ex wives don’t actively want him dead, and there’s fewer of them

[unique spruce]

Yeah JTF and Manny SEVERELY need an upgrade

[gaunt ice]

tbf Keener was some walls street folks

probably just shat out tons of money to settle it

[cursive tapir]

This is unfortunately the consequence of saving major story developments for expansions/Div3

[cursive tapir]

Oh 100 percent

[gaunt ice]

last season was meant to directly lead into the DLC

but nah we need to do these uh

"trials"

if anything he needs to be put on trial for the things he's done

i got nothing to prove,check my resume

[unique spruce]

Yeah I don't really want to work with Keener

[gaunt ice]

i get the part he's alluding to about not following orders

it do be ironic that his stubborness led him down this path to begin with

[unique spruce]

I'm fine going outside the Division, and with the whole "what is going rogue really" plotline

[gaunt ice]

i call BS

McDonald over there doesn't have a hold over the SHD network

[unique spruce]

But just being like "nah I guess you cool" to a psycho terrorist is outside my wants

[gaunt ice]

and ISAC is a binary asf mf

if ISAC says im not rogue after literally shooting an agent for breaking into a pharmacy(despite agents being autonomous btw)

im not rogue nor evil,simple as that

Kelso was simply weak sauce

[unique spruce]

I have no problem with dipping into grey mortality to get the job done. I just don't want to go into the black like Keener

[gaunt ice]

and ANNA being objectively better is an asspull but thats besides the point

[glad spruce]

Then you're gonna lose

[unique spruce]

I'm fine being considered a rogue if that's what it takes

[gaunt ice]

thing is what exactly has Keener done thats "grey"?
living out his vigilante fantasy by saving a random family?

[unique spruce]

Only going to lose because they refuse to give us other options

[glad spruce]

Anyone who's not willing to work with Keener is a coward, as far as I'm concerned

[unique spruce]

No I'm just better than that

[glad spruce]

No you're not

[unique spruce]

Don't have to gas civvies to get the job done

[glad spruce]

Acceptable losses

[gaunt ice]

fires a missile at the SHD osphey killing the 2nd wave commander and a bunch of agents
kills at least 3 agents at police academy
obliterates 2 settlements with biochems,killing JTF,SHD and civilians

the fuckin new york DLC is literally called WARLORDS of New York

name 1 thing he did good

[unique spruce]

"acceptable losses"

You're too far gone

[gaunt ice]

they're just making shit up i swear

[glad spruce]

Far as I'm concerned, Keener is a hero

[gaunt ice]

"errrr Keener wasn't actually evil"

[glad spruce]

While you and Chairs lack spines to do what it takes

[unique spruce]

Unless that's not what it takes

Is it what it takes cause He says it's what it takes?

[gaunt ice]

i have like 2 settlements worth of corpses that contradicts this

[cursive tapir]

It’s weird - the way ISAC is written is a bit inconsistent. They keep saying “Isac is too binary in his thinking”, but like, theoretically any agents opposing President Ellis should’ve been flagged as Rogues. It’s not like he was formally impeached or anything.

So Isac somehow clearly has enough of a moral conscience to say “hey even though legally the Division is supposed to answer to the President, this guy is a fascist so I’m roguing any agents who side with him”

Hell, once Isac learned that Faye Lau only joined up to kill him, ISAC flipped her back to orange

Like all of that takes a fairly nuanced framework of morality

[gaunt ice]

people just want the edgy muh rogue good

its like Shadows the Hedgehog mentality

edgy cool awesome

[gaunt ice]

i think it works off as a technicality because Ellis sorta wasn't president i think?

[glad spruce]

Considering the circumstances we live in, any violent action to hurt Black Tusk and the Hunters are acceptable

[gaunt ice]

or at least ISAC hasn't registered him as one,he addressed Ellis at the bank as his literal name

not "President Ellis"

[unique spruce]

We have a much easier way to win the doesn't involve that. Actual organization.

[cursive tapir]

Very interesting!

[glad spruce]

I dunno about you, but I don't have much trust in government leadership

[gaunt ice]

ill look thru the missions again 1 sec

[glad spruce]

At least, inherently

[unique spruce]

Why bother with government leadership

[cursive tapir]

At this point “government leadership” basically means settlement leaders like Hayes, Rhodes, etc

[glad spruce]

Because they're the ones we're supposed to trust in this mess, even though some of em are responsible for letting Amherst live out his fantasy

[unique spruce]

How about we just take operational command of the local situation, and even just organizing the local settlements into a force. Even just that I imagine we'd be way better off than we are now

[gaunt ice]

based on how agents basically outrank almost everyone but the President

you're the highest ranking official in the white house rn

[unique spruce]

I don't trust in this mess

[cursive tapir]

That’s pretty much what we’ve done

[gaunt ice]

@cursive tapir yea i just rewatched bank HQ and ISAC not once directly mentioned Ellis even by name

[cursive tapir]

Like, there aren’t any surviving politicians giving the Division orders right now

[gaunt ice]

we only know its Ellis because we listened to their comms

[glad spruce]

They're more likely to have us go around scavenge supplies and grow farms than do anything against Black Tusk.

I don't see a reason why I should help civilian settlements.

[gaunt ice]

"I don't see a reason why I should help civilian settlements."
Save what Remains:

this is like

LMB hater guy level of obsession

[glad spruce]

I believe in Save what remains by any means necessary.

[gaunt ice]

there's another layer of politics behind just muh kill Sokolova

[unique spruce]

See, we have different valid approaches

[gaunt ice]

BT has settlements that hold people there for their "protection"

not really jailed but something more in line with Manning Zoo manhunt

[glad spruce]

Then they're traitors.

[gaunt ice]

dawg if me,my child and my wife is at risk of being killed by bandits or die to starvation i'd join a settlement no questions asked

food,water,protection,they weren't even pushing people around

[sudden mortar]

The world is destroyed and most of the population is dead, there isn't much left to save. This is like the fireflies trying to create a cure in the last of us world filled with mushroom creatures

[gaunt ice]

if they wanted to portray black tusk settlements being more like concentration camps they failed horribly

[unique spruce]

I want to organize local resistance and eventually go to local military bases to persuade troops to actually do something. I have long ago lost my faith in "the system" and "government"

Probably the only area I agree with Keener on. It's a new world and it's time to build someone new

[gaunt ice]

its implied that a good chunk of the army is gone

i think
because thats where BT struck first

[glad spruce]

It's clear that we have too damn different ideologies to ever agree.

Cuz the way I see it, Sokolova is the greatest threat to the country and the whole world.

[cursive tapir]

Yeah didn’t green poison kill off like 95+ percent of the population anyway

[unique spruce]

There's more than the army

[gaunt ice]

there may be 10 or more but we just really really dont know

if there's still is an army out there they are stretched incredibly thin

[unique spruce]

That's probably the biggest problem with my plan though.

I don't know what's left BECAUSE UBI WONT TELL ME WHATS LEFT

[gaunt ice]

JTF actually consists of National Guard too

[glad spruce]

Which is exactly why we should work with Keener.

He already has the initiative.

[unique spruce]

Just down the coast there's a major naval base that houses a seal team and ground troops. There's an army tech repair base to the North of DC, and plenty more stuff nearby.

But for whatever reason the devs don't seem to want to give me an inkling of what the wider picture in the country looks like

Makes me angi

[glad spruce]

Okay, and why should I care about some random army base?

[cursive tapir]

My predictions are that the DLC will probably have us working with Keener until he inevitably turns heel on us at the end (as he tends to do)

Given that they’re working on Div3, I’d be shocked if we killed off Sokolova/McManus/the Black Tusk leadership in the upcoming expansion. I imagine that Keener will have some plan to wipe them out, but at the climax we’ll realize that his plan involves aggressive levels of collateral damage, and we’ll have to stop him while BT’s
command staff end up escaping

Just my crackpot theory

[gaunt ice]

he's most definitely turning heels

thats very much in line with his character in div1 and wony

[glad spruce]

He does have a chronic backstabbing disorder

[gaunt ice]

and yes he technically betrayed Conley,Kajika and James

they were bad guys sure but still tracks

betrayed the Division,the LMB,a bunch of rogue agents now

[unique spruce]

Troops. Actual troops. Not JTF losers in tshirts

[gaunt ice]

master manipulator is just part of his trait

[gaunt ice]

tell them the black tusk has oil

[glad spruce]

10 dollars would say that the base has already been taken over by Black Tusk

[cursive tapir]

(They probably do, ironically)

[unique spruce]

There's than tanker stronghold on nyc

[gaunt ice]

by sundown democracy will return to the united states of America

god bless America

[gaunt ice]

no one's taking it so

[unique spruce]

But it has O I L

Anywho

[sudden mortar]

They weren't useful to Keener so it makes sense, Conley is a pyromaniac rogue, Kajika is the vengeful steriotype, and Dragov doesn't even care about being a rogue or a agent, he only cares about that bunch of prisoners

[unique spruce]

My plan is easy enough. Build an army. Win this the old fashioned way. A Coup against the coup

Replace the government fully

[glad spruce]

Long story short, we just have different ideas about how shit should be solved

[gaunt ice]

Yea but my point was that he has a track record of betraying people

Manipulation,lies,deceit

[ember vector]

I feel like Keener is just supposed to represent how far a human being can fall down the rabbit hole when everything collapses in the face of a catastrophic event. When rules don't exist anymore, some humans will become savage and do the most unspeakable things you can think of.

[cursive tapir]

He literally told us “if you let the worker bees in on the big picture, they stop working”

There is zero scenario where he’s not leading us along

[unique spruce]

Yeah

Maybe this dlc is actually just how we die to make way for a new char in Div 3

~~or seasonal characters ~~

[gaunt ice]

Same as there’s 0 scenario where Keener could’ve realistically survived that encounter on Liberty Island but here we are

[glad spruce]

I mean, he did send us an audio log after finishing the first trial talking about how people have started to show their true colors after the Green Poison, using Bridgette as an example

[ember vector]

In a civilized world, we already have some of the most unspeakable things and they happen daily. Imagine if the world breaks apart...

[gaunt ice]

No one cared to manually check his vitals?
No double tap?
No one bag n tagged him?
Did he wake up in the morgue and ran outside while NO ONE noticed?

[ember vector]

@glad spruce Right! I just remember that!

[cursive tapir]

Hmmm. I dunno, Keener had issues long before the outbreak. His first move as an activated agent was to shoot a random civilian who saw his watch flash orange. Totally unnecessary, especially given that the whole point of the Division is that once they’re activated, they don’t need to be kept a secret anymore

[gaunt ice]

Wait that happened?

[glad spruce]

Can you double check on that? Cuz I'm pretty sure that didn't happen.

[cursive tapir]

I feel like Keener’s just a guy who found out during his army days that he really liked killing people, but would rather have the pretense of a cause if possible so as to soothe his guilty conscience

[sudden mortar]

I wonder how he got into heaven without anyone noticing: that's Keener!

[cursive tapir]

It’s an echo in Div1

[ember vector]

It just takes a little moment of paranoia and it makes sense for Keener to shoot someone, especially if he had some unresolved issues before the pandemic.

[gaunt ice]

Dragov would fold Keener in a 1v1
Just saying

[glad spruce]

There's also the fact he was part of Wall Street, which may or may not have had him involved in the 2008 financial crisis

[cursive tapir]

Or maybe a voice comm

[cursive tapir]

Yeah there’s a comm in Wony which reveals he had to go to therapy over his role as a futures trader

[sudden mortar]

Nah, Keener would probably activate his cheating software that can launch all game skills without limit

[cursive tapir]

Not explicitly referring to the housing crash, but similar vibes

[ember vector]

The same has happened to the villains of the first game. Larae Barrett was the personification of revenge and hate against humankind because of everything she had to endure before the pandemic.

[glad spruce]

IIRC, one of Keener's echos in Div 1 involves killing a Rioter who was harming a civilian. I assume you're referring to that one? @cursive tapir

[ember vector]

@glad spruce I remember that Echo!

[cursive tapir]

Maybe? I could be misremembering

This conversation went something like this:

Keener sees his watch go orange, gets the activation message: “Finally, about time”

Some guy on the street goes “Hey, wow, are you like CIA or something?”

bang

“Yeah. Or something.” - Keener

[glad spruce]

Yeah, that one.

[cursive tapir]

Ahhh I’m totally misremembering then, my bad

[ember vector]

And if I remember correctly, you don't know his name yet! It is "unknown individual" or something like that.

[unique spruce]

"Acceptable casualties" too?

[cursive tapir]

I don’t suppose you remember what category it was in? I’d like to relisten to it

[glad spruce]

I think it was in the Rogue section for Echos

[gaunt ice]

Blitz shield meta+jugg armor+fire sticky

Also no conveniently placed MG turrets

[unique spruce]

If it were up to me I'd body Keener next time I see him but they probably won't let me

[glad spruce]

Plot twist, he hands himself over after Black Tusk and Hunters are completely decimated.

[unique spruce]

Damn you story telling constraints

[glad spruce]

I think it's best to accept the fact that the narrative is curated to how the Devs wanna tell the game's story.

[unique spruce]

Unfortunately

Doesn't mean I don't want it to go a different way

[cursive tapir]

Also the fact that Keener canonically went to therapy puts this in an interesting context:

[glad spruce]

At the end of the day, it's a looter shooter

[unique spruce]

Yeah but we wouldn't all be in this channel if that were the extent of it for is

[sudden mortar]

And the fact this is a linear storyline and not a decision game like Mass Effect or BG

[cursive tapir]

“I owe myself an apology. I apologize, I forgive myself, I move forward”

[glad spruce]

And you don't have to like it, and that's okay.

[unique spruce]

I'm in it to see where it goes

And maybe find some cool guns along the way

[glad spruce]

Likewise

[cursive tapir]

Found it! “Executioner”

[glad spruce]

Yes, that one.

[cursive tapir]

A Rogue Division agent executes a man in cold blood, after he finds him standing over an unconscious woman in an alley.

Certainly looks dodgy, I’ll grant

Bizarre that the flavor text describes him as a rogue when he’d literally just been activated

[unique spruce]

I'd say capping a random civ is pretty rouge like activity

[cursive tapir]

Yeah echo itself didn’t really explain the order of events very well. I think I had assumed the other body was just a fellow bystander that Keener capped

Whereas the flavor text in the database is what implies the nefarious intent

Either way, I’m gonna call this a firm case of Keener indulging his savior complex

[unique spruce]

I'd say he at the least became rouge within minutes of activation

[cursive tapir]

Hard cuts to the engineers at the Isac nodes

“Wow. I mean, we programmed this contingency in for a reason, but we didn’t expect anyone to trigger it that fast”

SHD to Rogue Speedrun, any% dead civilians

Did they ever confirm that Kajika was on the same botched Rikers mission as Keener, or is it just a conscience that they have very similar backstories?

[unique spruce]

Tbh probably capped that fool quicker than ISAC could do an initial boot lmao

[cursive tapir]

Keener sees the loading bar on his watch and figures “I could sneak one kill out. A little treat”

[glad spruce]

That's most likely what happened lol

[sudden mortar]

Division commander: and avoid engaging any hostile--

i missed the part where that's my problem.

[unique spruce]

And I'm supposed to think he's a good guy now? Pssh.

[unique spruce]

Black Tusk Hover Craft vs one funny lil F-15

[unique spruce]

Y'know what!

I'm sick of this. It's time I launch Operation Where-The-f-is-our-backup

Why on EARTH am I going to Brooklyn.

I'm going to the Hampton Roads/Virginia Beach area, which is the closest place that has a ton of military bases of all different branches. Army, Navy, Airforce

I'm sure Tusk probably obliterated the ones right on the coast, but there must be someone left

There's no way they took all of them out.

Maybe have them stuck where they are, but there's gotta be some people left fighting there

Or to make it sound nicer

Virginia Beach expansion/incursion

Objective: Investigate military remnants/survivors

[wicked gorge]

An Agent has disavowed the Division : Agent Status Rogue

[unique spruce]

All I'm sayin is! Someone's responsible for the V22s dropping supplies for us!

[wicked gorge]

An agent knows too much, activating phase 1 of hunter protocol Alpha

[unique spruce]

I KNOW THE MILITARY IS OUT THERE! YOU CANT STOP ME. I WILL GET US HELP TO CRUSH BLACK TUSK AND CAL

[wicked gorge]

Thank you for participating in this experiment, have a nice day

[tall prism]

I'm wondering, since we're called recruit by keener, if we're gonna help him destroy Sokolova

And maybe Mcmanus and his hunters

[wicked gorge]

If thats not the case then idk what the division story is gonna be anymore

[wind peak]

They going do like destiny 2

Division the saga

[unique spruce]

"Little did we know... under Brooklyn was The Sanctum, an ancient and mysterious temple. The powers, and the horrors, that we found within.... changed the course of human history..."

[lavish galleon]

Breadcrumbs the game

[unique spruce]

Honestly, I'm really not sure why finding the next president isnt more pressing. Could do a lot with presidential power

[remote tree]

What’s the deal with Manny? does he know what’s goin on or????

[vale oak]

hi guys what are our thoughts on the season so far 😃

(im not playing the game until i get new pc)

[wicked gorge]

0/10 no keener gassing the population

[wicked gorge]

Never played destiny

[gaunt ice]

they forgor

[sick lantern]

📠

[glad spruce]

I suppose that's one of the reasons why The Recruiter ranted about how it doesn't matter that ISAC considers us we're on mission

[gaunt ice]

more like Johnson was delusional

did he deem all the people he killed as traitors?

his buddies are straight up psychopaths

i’d personally not take the word of someone like that at any value at all

were they off mission when they killed random do good agents?

[sick lantern]

he’s awesome btw >:(

[sick lantern]

Broken Dawn and the Operation Crossroads trilogy touch on this

Hunted less so but Recruited and Compromised do

[sick lantern]

In Div 1 you can find the ECHO near a side mission in Times Square called “Cleaner Informant”. Keener has a guy dead/unconscious in an alley, the other guys says “what are you CIA or some sh1t?” Keener shoots him and says “or some sh1t.” then he gets a call from the first wave commander (his only appearance lmao) telling him to come back to their fob

ok i did not see the messages below that lol

[gaunt ice]

he’s literally inverted colors Sonic man

also Knuckles is the best Sonic character

totally not biased

nuh uh

[cold bramble]

What’s happening with that massive black tusk system on the White House lawn? I know it was used for an attack but is it just left to rot now?

[somber cape]

Anyone tryna do iron horse I’ve never done to before

[cold bramble]

Also do we have a better understanding of this seasons story yet? Or we already at a basis of understanding that keener is testing us for something?

[glad spruce]

Do you mean the Razorback? Yeah, it's only been there for a like a week or so in-game timeline. I doubt any techies in the White House would know how to make use of it since we disabled it back during the finale of Stovepipe manhunt

[cold bramble]

Thank you

[glad spruce]

It's not that complicated. Basically, Keener is in DC, trying to parley with us. However, due to our past confrontation against him, he isn't gonna recruit us on a whim.

He puts through four trials (we already completed the first one, Echo), hoping by the time we get to meet him face-to-face, that we realize who's the real threat to the Division.

[cold bramble]

Sounds interesting

I very rarely get to play so I usually just catch up through ngn video. Thanks though

[cold bramble]

The comms are also very helpful

[glad spruce]

Yeah, it does give us even more layers about Bridgette Douglas and her character. Especially back in Season 4, we only knew her as an unactivated Division agent who joined Black Tusk and was the daughter of Charles Douglas (of Douglas and Harding).

[cold bramble]

Nice

[glad spruce]

Ngl, I do find Bridgette to be an interesting character, despite the fact we learn more about her story after her death.

[cold bramble]

Wait so she was an agent and then deactivated to join black tusk? That brings so many questions.

[unique spruce]

Sounds more like never activated to me

[sick lantern]

Viper and Kestrel never received the signal to begin acting as Division agents

why, who knows lol

[glad spruce]

She was never activated

[cold bramble]

Ah right

[glad spruce]

We do learn that Viper was part of the Hunter program from last season's comms, where even Keener admits that Cal really misjudged her.

[sudden mortar]

Isn't her father that guy on the shooting range? Imagine you working in the shooting range and the guy that tests his firearms all day is the same guy that killed your only daughter.

[glad spruce]

Yes

[fast wharf]

He probably was sad but at the same time knew this would happen

I mean our agent took down the whole Washington threat

So wouldn't be surprised if a father comes sad saying something like "you killed my son in the hyena Stadium"

[wicked gorge]

“Hey Douglas, that shotgun you wanted me to try out went great, felt like slicing warm butter with a knife, in this case your daughter was the butter and the gun was the knife”

[sleek plover]

Do you know what is the perfect place for division spinoff?

Hawaii

[shell beacon]

how about Florida :)))

[ashen jungle]

@sleek plover Okay cmon now.

[glad spruce]

And I thought my rant against Black Tusk a few days ago was unhinged lmao

[unique spruce]

I've said this. Want it so bad.

[sleek plover]

"Natalia's shoe licking simps in black"

[unique spruce]

Completely isolated, just like the devs love

[glad spruce]

I just realised something.

[tulip patio]

what did you realize?

[glad spruce]

While we're going through the Echo trial, we get comms where we learn things that we didn't know. That Viper was partnering with Keener as far back as the Div 2 base story and sharing intel on President Ellis. Tha Keener had Luna (sub-target from Hornet's Manhunt) leak President Ellis location to the Division so he could have more time to deploy the Rogue Network.

Which makes me wonder if the trials are his way of making us learn things that we didn't know before.

[wicked gorge]

What’s interesting was keener considering warning the Divison that Ellis was working with Black Tusk before his defection, but couldn’t in risk of compromising his work

[ashen jungle]

I am looking forward to how they explain his plan to murder every person living in Manhattan at the end of WONY.

[wicked gorge]

Easy, retcon

[ashen jungle]

"it was a prank bro" is my vote.

[tulip patio]

oh it's definitely that, I do have a feeling they went with this "trial" mostly just to pad out until the DLC, with the previous season being the actual prelude to the story. Now I guess keener's plan here is to see if we would actually be willing to go with his plan in final mission

[wicked gorge]

They’ll probably go the route “oh I was never gonna launch the missile” or “ the eclipse was a dulled version and was never meant to hit manhattan”

[tulip patio]

I think they might try to change the story from "I didn't mean to target Manhattan" but some Black Tusk facility

[ashen jungle]

He specifically talks about killing people there and "wiping the slate clean".

[tulip patio]

with the initial version of the story being a ruse

[ashen jungle]

Unless they remove the mission, it's not going to work in the story if they're trying to make him a good guy.

[tulip patio]

yeah I know, it's hard to go from there

but to be fair the plan to begin with made little sense, why kill those people

[ashen jungle]

I am almost 100% sure (let's call it 89%) that Keener is not going to be redeemed in any way and we're only working with him for now.

[wicked gorge]

I think he said that to rile the division up to attack him to help fake his death

[tulip patio]

or maybe he just pretended to want to kill people en masse, even though he DID attack two location anyway, to make us "kill" him, and thus help him properly go under the radar

[wicked gorge]

Still doesn’t explain the city hall attack and the concept of “ oh I had to kill agents that were undercover hunters” concept is kinda lazy even if it works

[tulip patio]

then he gave us the watch to level up his in-universe mobile division character to then copy the save back

[wicked gorge]

Imagine when he copied Anna, it took all our shd levels

[tulip patio]

yeah

[ashen jungle]

I'm re-playing the opening cutscene to WONY in my head where they slit innocent people's throats and then the current narrative where it seems that maybe he's going to be a good guy and I just can't buy it.

[tulip patio]

I cannot buy it either, but I am guessing they might go with a "for the greater good" sort of scenario

[wicked gorge]

“You really me and my rogues are targeting the Division? This is far from the truth” - Aaron”Chad”Keener

[tulip patio]

kinda like how True Sons are messed up but from their perspective they think they're doing good, so "sacrifices" are being made

[ashen jungle]

The greatest good we could do is throw him off a bridge with no parachute.

[tulip patio]

definitely

I still don't get this "test" he's going for now, I think we passed the test when we put down most of his team

[wicked gorge]

Nah too merciful

[glad spruce]

Kind of a stretch to say the current story depicts Keener as a good guy. More of an anti-hero at most.

[ashen jungle]

He is very much not an anti-hero.

I'd dislike him more if I didn't enjoy the actor so much.

[glad spruce]

I know coming back from the dead is a tired trope, but I wouldn't mind having Viper back.

[wicked gorge]

I can’t wait for keener to die in the dlc and the Division 3 reveals he’s been the main bad guy

[tulip patio]

I think doing it too much will go from goofy to even worse imo

[glad spruce]

True. Which is why I say Lau is dead for real in spite of last season's climax mission. Kelso was pretty much Cassandra since she has Faye's watch on her person

[tulip patio]

I think it's better if she stays dead yeah

[wicked gorge]

Gotta give massive credit, they made a manhunt Lieutenant into a vital character for the story

[glad spruce]

Way I see it, Kelso is trying to finish what Lau started and is doing whatever it takes to make it happen

[ashen jungle]

I think MSV realised that people would start to question this stuff too much so they specifically mention that Lau is ashes.

[wicked gorge]

You don’t wanna see Faye laus ash jar roll up in a wheelchair

[ashen jungle]

can't revive what gets collected by a chimney sweep.

[tulip patio]

maybe put in a Hound and made a boss

[glad spruce]

Warhounds are pretty much bots, so I doubt a dead person's ashes would be of any use.

[wicked gorge]

Jesus like Wolfenstein, putting laus brain in a warhound and armor it up

[tulip patio]

I do hope now that the new item they mention will be something akin to Links from 1, maybe we get some rogue tech like hacking robots

from an alliance with Keener

[wicked gorge]

They’ll probably give us an explanation on how keener survived

[glad spruce]

You mean the ultimate abilities like in Div 1?

[wicked gorge]

Also calling it Manhunt Mission is Lincoln Memorial

[tulip patio]

yeah but different, not copies

like I said a concept I'd want to explore is how Keener hacked Black Tusk's robotics

[ashen jungle]

Reasoning?

[wicked gorge]

The trailer looks like it takes place around the Lincoln memorial

[tulip patio]

because it does seem like the rogues don't really stagnate like us, we just recovered tech and that's it

[glad spruce]

The season primer's page shows Keener, Parnell, and Kelso walking up to Lincoln Memorial.

[tulip patio]

rogues got the watch, repurposed Anna, new skills, all that

[wicked gorge]

Keener had AnnA, AnnA smart and Kenner smart to know back door, equal bullshit

[tulip patio]

well I hope we get that backdoor

[glad spruce]

And that special mobile SHD server that Keener has with him 😛

[tulip patio]

oh also his watch turned orange again right

[wicked gorge]

Thats are only advantage over the Black Tusk since they don’t know about it

[tulip patio]

in that video where he kills the black tusk

[wicked gorge]

And yes

[sick lantern]

when you have SHD tech you can just do that

sorta idk

[wicked gorge]

Plus warhounds are technically shd tech

[sick lantern]

||Maira does it in Hunted without ANNA, so||

[glad spruce]

IIRC, Descent establishes that SHD Tech and Black Tusk Tech are connected together.

[tulip patio]

yes connected but I assume not fully linked

[sick lantern]

Diamond has the same code base as ISAC and ANNA

[tulip patio]

so Black Tusk can't just turn off our stuff

but maybe we learn to turn off theirs

[sick lantern]

but Diamond has no AI to output info in a useful way to BT troops

and uh apologies to whoever it was who said that months ago you were right. BUT at the time you had no source

[wicked gorge]

Both sides can technically shut the others system off with said back door, but the only ones who actually know about it are us and the hunters, we just need someone that can access said back door

[tulip patio]

it would be funny to find a hunter and we just hack one drone back and forth until one caves

[unique spruce]

I'll show Cal a back door.

It's the exit wound from this .357 in his skull

[sick lantern]

damn right

[glad spruce]

Cal will more likely show Nat a back door.

[wicked gorge]

So since there was a undercover hunter in the cleaners, doesn’t that mean there’s undercover hunters in other factions, id be terrified of a riker hunter

[tulip patio]

there are very likely

but terrified I am not sure, they are dangerous sure but we did beat them back a bunch of times

[glad spruce]

They're tough, sadistic, and psychotic. But they're not invincible

[tulip patio]

they use psychological warfare yeah

but their brains pop out just the same

[wicked gorge]

This is why I want mortar strikes

[tulip patio]

plus for now they're just puppets it seems, they fight for some guy's power grab

[unique spruce]

I don't even think all of them are psychos or evil

[sick lantern]

I do tbh

[glad spruce]

And some are deluded enough in believing in said guy's ideologies

[tulip patio]

the recruiter was alright, but he was very much gone yeah

[sick lantern]

you gotta be pretty psycho to go around cutting off hands, and pretty deluded to think killing innocent Division agents is a good thing

[tulip patio]

yeah we're literally defending people's settlements while he does what?

no matter what he says about restoring the order through whatever means Cal lied about, it wasn't them who got stuck in the mud to fix it

[glad spruce]

Yep

[tulip patio]

going by the past recordings of Keener and rogues helping people out of Manhattan too, even the rogues did more then Cal's puppies

[wicked gorge]

I wanna see a religious faction in the next division game

We haven’t seen many of them in the games unless you count the outcast

[tulip patio]

I thought Outcasts were that when I first saw pictures of game

they looked like some doomsday cult

[sick lantern]

they basically are considering they more or less want to destroy what's left of humanity

[glad spruce]

Ehh, I'd say Outcasts are more traumatized survivors who were spurred into hatred and vengance by a grieving mother.

[sick lantern]

there's a religious group or two in Broken Dawn

[tulip patio]

still interesting to imagine though, what these groups could have done were they not led astray

Outcasts as basically a civillian force are quite a menace, but they just decided innocent people were to blame

[glad spruce]

There's also the Reborn in Compromised, but they're more of uhh... eco-terrorists

[tulip patio]

instead of focusing mostly on True Sons, Black Tusk

and also True Sons, basically JTF with less moral restrictions

[glad spruce]

JTF

[tulip patio]

typo yeah

like they're basically the people we were fighting alongside in 1

[glad spruce]

I would've loved to have Div 2 with a seasonal weather system or whatever you wanna call it

[ashen jungle]

Peacekeepers is what happens when the JTF go bad.
they're kind of like when a puppy gets grumpy with you.

[tulip patio]

the NY peacekeepers? not exactly bad, still basically the target of bullies

more like independent JTF

[ashen jungle]

Yes that is what I was getting at.

[tulip patio]

but True Sons went to have ALL that gear, all the people, fortified capitol

imagine all that effort used to actually keep peace in DC

[glad spruce]

What happens when a JTF colonel deludes himself into believing he's in a war.

[tulip patio]

well I really like how far he actually got, but not what means he used and his goals

[wicked gorge]

Give a person enough power they start to drink their own kool aid

[tulip patio]

imagine if he was a good guy, but with all those means and the intention to do good

like yeah bomb the Black Tusk with the mortars

not some people's garden

[glad spruce]

I do recall one of his personal comms, where he ordered a bombing an insurgent village (Presumably when he was in the Marines) as a Major that got him sent to a mandatory psychological session.

Guy always had cracks in him

[tulip patio]

yeah definitely

but also the determination, instead of what we got on our side for the most part

[unique spruce]

It's certainly a war now

[wicked gorge]

Some people are born leaders that can spark a fire among others

[unique spruce]

I'd say a Civil War, tbh

[tulip patio]

true just feels like a tired trope how it's always the opposition we fight

and we always have to start everything from scratch

[glad spruce]

A war of ideologies.

[tulip patio]

it feels like after all our efforts we're still babysitting the people in DC instead of them forming some strong militia, they have the guns and means now

[wicked gorge]

Well when society collapses, people will do anything to feel safe again, even if it means following a nut job as long as they give them purpose

[tulip patio]

definitely just I believe it would be more interesting to not always go along the same line, why not give us a place where we don't feel like we're the last thread keeping them from collapse

they sorta tried it with Peacekeers but in the end they did nothing and we fixed NY for them

[glad spruce]

Wouldn't mind getting activities involving capturing military bases and help in supplying civilian millitia and JTF

[unique spruce]

That's what I've been saying!

The Virginia Beach area is filled with them! Navy, Army, Airforce, some joint bases.

DC itself has Andrews AFB. And outside Baltimore is Aberdeen Proving Grounds.

Fort Walker is just to the south, and not within Hovercraft range making BT assault more difficult

Marines have Quantico too

Tellin me there not any supplies we can use, or troops to help at any of these places?!