division-universe

[urban musk]

also, if you didn't notice the WONY balaclava wearing enemies are attacking the settlement in the beginning of the game, that makes me believe we start out in a small settlement off the coast of New York state. (since they don't appear in DC).

also agent "De La Cruz" didn't go to DC, and he's found injured in the BoO, in NYC (Just like at the beginning of the game). that makes me believe it's near NYC.

[cold bramble]

Those are rioters from the 1st fun fact

[urban musk]

Yes, I knew that.

[cold bramble]

Ok

Man anyways

[urban musk]

anyways what? you gotta go or something?

[cold bramble]

You'd think by the time of wony, the cleaners would atleast have some doctors to figure out what's infected or not

But again, Joe ferro hated the feds

[urban musk]

they're too far up their own asses to even care about the Vaccine made in the div 1, it's like "Hey there's infected people who survived the virus, and the Feds wanna make a vaccine?" "They're still infected, kill them." that the dumbest damn thing.

like the cleaners' goal is to get rid of the virus, but they don't care about making a vaccine? you know, A VACCINE? it makes the immune system get used to the virus to better fight it off?

also, what happened to Jessica Kandel?

was that ever explained?

[cold bramble]

Joe ferro wouldn't of wanted a better and safer virus free world! Trying to make the world safer for his niece totally wasn't one of the reasons he made the cleaners!!!!

[cold bramble]

Think she went off somewhere to further research for the vaccine but BT raided the place she was at

[modest orbit]

didn't she move to a lab (that was later attacked by btsu in false dawn(forgot English name for the book sorry)?)

[cold bramble]

Yup

[urban musk]

OH yes, forgot about that.

[urban musk]

dude was an idiot, trying to kill people who could used their blood samples to make, you know. A VACCINE? he literally got what was coming to him.

also he's a hypocrite, wanted to get rid of the virus but tried to kill patients that could Drumroll Help create a LITERAL VACCINE!

[modest orbit]

some people just want to see the world on fire

[urban musk]

or some people are to stupid to understand simple concepts.

[cold bramble]

I feel as if the need to keep the virus inside NY and his goal to keep his niece safe clouded his thinking

[urban musk]

tough shit. get good.

[cold bramble]

Fr

[urban musk]

let's talk about keener...

[cold bramble]

But ay, the JTF are feds and they're dog at their job so uh yeah fuck em and their attempts to secure the vaccine

[urban musk]

dude couldn't save civilians he was supposed to protect, and get's mad at the JTF for not doing enough to save civilians... but bombs the BoO with CIVILIANS inside.

Aaron keener logic!

dude was so smart, he was 1 step ahead of everyone else, but too stupid to NOT be a hypocrite.

what is with Division villains and being hypocritical? I guess a lesson to be learned here is DON'T BE A HYPOCRITE?

[cold bramble]

Lmao, he could care if that couple he saved and sent off across the river were in there, all he was st that point was someone who so high up in his own ass he thought he was untouchable

He's like the equivalent of a fat emo kid rocking to to believer from imagine dragons

[modest orbit]

on a keener-related note
how did Hornet survive?

[urban musk]

That isn't entirely true though, He admired the firefighter's bravery and helped him and his wife get out of the worse part of the city, but that doesn't mean he's a good person. It means he's more hypocritical. if he admired the Firefighter's bravery what about the rest of the JTF?

[cold bramble]

If you're talking pre-dz wall he was saved by keener

[cold bramble]

Exactly

[urban musk]

the moron is dead.

got brought back to life to die again. you'd think he'd have some sort of re-awakening. after all, people who die and come back to life (The ones who remember their experience) turn out to be WAY better people than they were before.

[modest orbit]

now - yea
but didn't we kill him in the Russian Consulate? and then he showed up again as a manhunt target?

that's the part that kind of bugs me

[urban musk]

dude was saved by the bell. and by the bell, that mean aaron keener's medical expert.

supposedly while we moved to the next objective, the rogue agent medic ran to save him, while we were pre-occupied by more LMB.

[cold bramble]

Yeah, after he was stitched up, somewhere between pre-wony and post-wony he made it to DC

[cold bramble]

Not really, keener found him dying and then he took him after the consulate raid

[urban musk]

lol aaron keener, the one who values loyalty, but is only loyal to one rogue agent, and let's the rest die.

parnell? dude literally made aaron keener's network and aaron keener let the kid die.

so much for "Loyalty."

ever notice something about keener? dude is a MASSIVE hypocrite.

like if we were to measure his hypocrisy it's probably about the size of our solar system.

[modest orbit]

*was a massive hypocrite

[urban musk]

even after death he still is LOL.

[cold bramble]

He hid it behind his dumb vague questions

Horrible writing imo

[cold bramble]

New lore states that theo didn't do jack with what keener gave him and is a con man

New lore states that Anna was already made long before

[urban musk]

good enough writing to make me wanna kill him. bad enough that some people in this server still believe in his "message."

[cold bramble]

Tbf, as long as you make the bad guy bad enough in every since, writing quality doesn't even matter

[urban musk]

if I were to guess, Parnell made the rogue network by using ANNA. and he found it in ISAC's code somwhere.

[cold bramble]

Probably

[urban musk]

but even then it makes as much sense as aaron keener's supporters, still supporting him.

because how the hell, would parnell find ANNA in ISAC's code?

[cold bramble]

Who knows really, they're gonna state in the next recton that he had an Anna brick up his ass

[urban musk]

anyways, I've gotta GTFOOH. last thing? rogue agent supporters are cringe. freaking rogueoids.

[cold bramble]

🎃

[urban musk]

I'm serious. if you support rogue agents, then screw you. you support the killing of innocents and others who want to help rebuild the USA.

[cold bramble]

Not all rogues went rogue to kill

Some of them just went rogue because they really didn't understand the personal cost of being an agent

[urban musk]

The USA before the outbreak (BTSU doesn't count because they want to instill a tyrant rule over the nation).

and when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty, screw the BTSU and rogueoids.

[urban musk]

then throw away the damn watch and the brick. you don't have to go rogue.

last word before I go?

[cold bramble]

Lore-wise, they're abandoning their duty, if it were so easy nobody would've know keener went rogue

[cold bramble]

Yoyo

[sick lantern]

she went to Ann Arbor

[gusty fulcrum]

maybe mcmanus isnt such a bad person

still bad but not as bad

[sick lantern]

he’s actively orchestrating the downfall of the united states and helped unleash a virus that has decimated the world

millions are dead due to his corruption

[gusty fulcrum]

how did he help unleash the virus

where in the game was this mentioned

[sick lantern]

he’s the reason why the NSA didn’t stop Amherst

[gusty fulcrum]

because there was no proof he was crazy?

you cant go after people because of lectures, thats 1984

[sick lantern]

no because he’s working with Sokolova and the BT to benefit from the outbreak

[gusty fulcrum]

you just changed your argument from "didnt stop amherst" to "benefit from the outbreak:"

[sick lantern]

he didn’t stop Amherst, intentionally, to benefit from the outbreak

[gusty fulcrum]

where in the game was this mentioned

[sick lantern]

Descent comms

[gusty fulcrum]

arent they all not accessible though

[sick lantern]

no…

[gusty fulcrum]

so you can get all of them?

isnt it capped to one per week or did they fix that

[sick lantern]

it’s in some of them that are already out

[gusty fulcrum]

which one, i have them all

[sick lantern]

fuckin one of them idk
he’s speaking to the NSA analyst

[gusty fulcrum]

because i listened to all of them and not one of them mentioned this

nothing about benefitting from the outbreak

[sick lantern]

here are the facts:
the NSA knew Amherst was a credible security threat
someone connected with the NSA blocked them from acting, directly allowing the outbreak to occur
the Black Tusk were prepared for the outbreak and to seize the opportunity to bring about a new world order
McManus is working with the Black Tusk
McManus spoke to the NSA analyst and blocked action against Amherst
McManus has been cooperating with the Black Tusk since before the outbreak even began

you have to play 6 dimensional chess to rationalise these as the actions of anyone other than a manipulative villain

[gusty fulcrum]

the first two facts,. where did you get those from

[sick lantern]

the NSA classified assignment+ the NSA descent comm+ the first 5-10 pages of Broken Dawn

[gusty fulcrum]

because the first fact is proven that mcmanus thought amherst was "just a cook" so literally "credible" isnt a good term to use

whats broken dawn

[sick lantern]

the sequel to New York Collapse

[gusty fulcrum]

whats new york collapse xD

[sick lantern]

the survival guide with April Kelleher’s notes; the puzzle book

[gusty fulcrum]

ive never heard of this in my life

oh i see lol

[static crypt]

just had a random shower thought

lore wise, couldn't we just heal schaeffer with some healing SHD tech?

i mean that's how we survived the Eclipse Virus in Tidal Basin

[gusty fulcrum]

lore wise we ran out of revive tokens

[gaunt ice]

no shd tech is gonna make a vegetative person just miraculously rise up

[static crypt]

just give him a reviver hive haha

[gusty fulcrum]

no revive tokens

[gaunt ice]

realistically a revive hive is probably on par with a defib

defibs don't even raise the dead its just video games oversimplifying it

[gusty fulcrum]

realistically youre crazy

[gaunt ice]

no u

[gusty fulcrum]

no w

[tulip crag]

Is there any confirmation on a release date for heartland?

[sick lantern]

nope

[obtuse arrow]

Facts tho

[tepid ibex]

That dude still hasnt woke up has he?

[static crypt]

Now that you mention it, he sorta has

In the cutscene after we stopped the Black Tusk attack on the White House

[sick lantern]

he was still unconscious

[frail coyote]

one thing I don't get, why is Wally's name always in quotations

[frail coyote]

it looks like they are running out of black tusk operatives to throw at us

just noticed in this run all of the normal ads are True sons, and the named enemies are black tusk for the manhunt targets

or more they are trying to clear out and use the True sons as quickly as possible

[late void]

Wally is her callsign, that's why it's in quotes - can't remember her real name but it is mentioned.

[cold bramble]

I feel as if it's just Anderson being an idiot and just caving in to whatever he needs to he's being a sweetheart and giving her guys

Afterall he's just a pushover

Also in some bounties, it's pure black tusk protecting a true son's named guy

[static crypt]

Did we ever hear from him again after Pentco

[cold bramble]

No, we just see him during the ring of fire trailer and that's it

Maybe later in the manhunt

[frail coyote]

have to laugh, Black tusk trying to be seen as good guys, captures a wife and husband for no reason

[gaunt ice]

"guys trust us we're actually the good guys,ignore that time when we tried to nuke the white house,executed people in broad daylight,making biochemical weapons,and kidnap random people"

[marsh sundial]

Touching an old topic. There's about 3 flavors of rogue agents. Burnt agents, most likely anyone who was first wave in NY. Bad actors, pricks basically. And tricked, people who went rogue because of lack of information

[sick lantern]

they all fall into the second category

[gaunt ice]

A lot of first waves died tho?

So technically we only have dead or rogue

[mint citrus]

Black Tusk is out here trying to hit the Division with that "Do you feel like a Hero yet?" And we're the ones stopping them from going all Geneva Suggestions on the local populace

[rustic wedge]

weird to try and humanize BTSU when like 80% of my fights with them have been with complete foaming-at-the-mouth sociopaths and the big video before they were officially introduced as a faction was them using warhounds to murder entire civilian encampments

[sick lantern]

lmao yea

[red dust]

Is the second part of season 5 Mel Arnold bugged. I ran the Roosevelt twice...Mel was not rescued.

[median crag]

What're y'all's thoughts on the Castle turning into what seems to be another BoO?

[static crypt]

im interested to see where it goes lore-wise

[marsh sundial]

I would call Theo a paranoid kid being played by Keener. That one we fight underground was totally left in the crapshoot that was first wave

Burnt I mean

Agent by agent the division does do good but when you get enough people, power, and a bad situation together someone gets hurt enough to lash out. Going rogue is that for some agents

[sick lantern]

me when i lash out at innocent civilians

[cold bramble]

I heard something about how the whole 1st wave died or went rogur was just bullshit propaganda from keener to mentally weaken division agents

[cold bramble]

Warhounds are the goodest boys

[limpid monolith]

I hope it is temporary. White House still feels more... complete, despite Castle being established.

[median crag]

That's fair

[gusty fulcrum]

If the white house gets raided then that would definitely change the environment of the game

Like raided again

[cold bramble]

They still need to get their veggie of a commander

Makes you wonder why Schafer wasn't their first priority or did they take him?

Didn't play at all last season

[sick lantern]

Manny had to put him in a wheelchair to get him away from the attack, they were looking for him

[gusty fulcrum]

i miss lewis :(

[sick lantern]

@spring bison

[spring bison]

Thanks

[sick lantern]

wtf lmao

[sick lantern]

seems like someone clicked the link ^

[sick lantern]

💀

[gusty fulcrum]

What ever happened to that one outcast strategist that we stole and bt stole from us I think

[static crypt]

still in bt possession iirc

i feel like he's gonna be one of the targets next manhunt to recover

[wicked gorge]

Is it me or does the division feel like a failed social experiment

[gusty fulcrum]

just you mate

[rustic wedge]

Well it seemed like a good idea until it revealed that Division agent screening ranges from "We did a thorough background check and a through hours-long interview process and we believe this person is a good agent candidate" to "wouldn't it be really funny if we gave this obvious sociopath futuretech and secret agent clearances?"

[gusty fulcrum]

thats a large exaggeration but ok

[ashen jungle]

Not sure if it's still canon at this point, but there was a point in time where an Agent was added basically due to their father being a government official, and I'm not referring to Theo.
So it seems some people see the SHD as a sort of "status symbol" or even just a bit of easy money because there's no way it would ever actually be activated.

[rustic wedge]

In some of the Kelso and Keener logs it's implied the agent screening got pretty loose or specifically was loosened to allow in people who had potential but didn't pass psyche evaluations.

[gusty fulcrum]

thats a stretch from "obvious sociopath"

[rustic wedge]

I'm pretty sure that in one of the Keener logs he laughs about the screening process and points out that obviously insane people who never should've passed psyche evals were let through.

[ashen jungle]

See: theo and connely and probably Kajika.

and our own Agent, who thought it was a good idea to carry 140 AK's on their back at all times.

[restive phoenix]

I’d call that an efficient work ethic, what if 139 of those AK’s break you still got one more.

[ashen jungle]

it's an AK, I'm fairly sure the roaches are dying out first.

[restive phoenix]

Ok fair enough

[rustic wedge]

I do a hollywood reload- I just throw the AK on the ground and pull out another instead of swapping mags

[gusty fulcrum]

to be fair theo had a lot going for him

i can 100% vouch for him being let into the program

[ashen jungle]

Let's not humanise any of those walking warcrimes.

[gusty fulcrum]

what warcrimes

[sick lantern]

biological warfare and indiscriminate targeting with no regards to civilians

[ashen jungle]

I mean, the City Hall attack alone. Don't forget that it was Theo who controlled the drones that killed those civvies who were guarding the place.

all 5 of them are just so, so evil.

[cold bramble]

Especially the kajika the Conley ones

You got both recruiters arguing and then you got the lady saying "They're pretty mentally unstable, they're fit to be an agent"

[sick lantern]

finally, after months of procrastination, I have finished Broken Dawn

so Kelso knew about the BSAV and vaguely about the Black Tusk since before Div 2… seems like a plot hole lol

[gaunt ice]

Kajika was fine for the most part

[gusty fulcrum]

Specifically Theo?

[ashen jungle]

All 5 of them are culpable, but yeah Theo more-so than some of the others, since he helped develop the technology to do it.

[sleek plover]

The Keenerite rogues believed in might makes right.

They are evil.

... among them, I hate conley the most

[ashen jungle]

I would've thought that'd be Dragov, since he runs protection rackets.

[sleek plover]

I sympathize with the rikers tbh

[ashen jungle]

Looking at it now, it does seem a bit odd that all the Rogues are 35 and under, except for Kajika who is a decade older.

[sleek plover]

but not as much as I sympathize with outcasts and rioters

But yeah, Dragov is just a mafia

Conley however wants to crrate her own twisted version of order

that is more evil in my book

[ashen jungle]

He was a hitman for black-ops before he joined the SHD, so he isn't exactly innocent in all this.

" his loyalty now goes to whoever will feed his need for blood"

[sleek plover]

Kajika is a classic case of PTSD gone wrong

Kind of guys who needs to be in constanr state of violence

just to stay sane

because they cannot properly adjust to times of peace and daily life

I think many of the LMB folks are also like that

also BT

TBH In Theos case...he could have at least been useful

if he was captyred alive

and given the outcast strategist treatment

or bardon treatment

[ashen jungle]

I thoroughly disagree with all of that, being 100% honest.
Attempts are made so we sympathise a little with the Rogues, but I just don't. They all murdered innocent people as soon as they decided that it was the right thing to do, or an easy solution to a problem. They are all villains, through and through.

[sleek plover]

That, I also agree

Keenerites are just another brand of evil alongside likes of LMB and Hyenas

But in theos case, he did joined keener because he was deep into some sort of conspiracy

So he could be given an outcast strategist treatment

after some thorough waterboarding

and itching powders on his bed

[ashen jungle]

Let's tone down the fan-fic of how you want to torture people.

[sleek plover]

and other constant pranks to make his life hell

sure

Been satisfying that urge a lot with chatgpt short stories anyways

Aside that...I must really wonder

what would.mcmanus even call himself if he wins

Emperor of New America or sth?

[ashen jungle]

To be an emperor you have to have an empire, and there aren't enough living people in one place to fill a large dining room, much less something akin to Rome.

[sleek plover]

I mean if he gets to choose the title, who is stopping him from doing that?

Democracy is dead and gone at that pt anyways

[ashen jungle]

....no, I don't think he'd call himself that. For a start he's not 12, and for a second, narratively it would make no sense if he could "win". Why would it be him "winning" anyway? Sokolova runs BT, not McManus. They're the closest thing left to an army that exists outside of Haven/JTF security guards.

[sleek plover]

Huh...right

Seriously thought it would be funny if he had plans to rename America Mcmanusland

[rustic wedge]

Theo I'm guessing was 100% correct about his conspiracy theories but he wasn't 100% correct based on evidence- he just guessed correctly from what he knew. Then he got suckered into working with a sociopath murderer who used and discarded him as sociopaths are want to do.

Kajika is PTSD ridden, Dragov clearly did not like Keener and correctly didn't trust him but got bullied into it, Conley is just inexplicably insane like all cleaners (a thing that was ridiculous in Div 1 too)

[wicked gorge]

So what do y’all think the hunters do in there off time, my personal theory is jumping jacks together

[gusty fulcrum]

stalk us

[waxen hare]

Laundry

[tepid ibex]

Decorate their masks. Like the one who shot himself like two times just for the aesthetic 🤌

[sleek plover]

Gonna prank ex lmb guys so bad when I visit haven again

[wicked gorge]

Bro is playing with fire

Also idk if it’s the NGN fan talking but does Johnson seem suspicious

[gaunt ice]

Sir he came out of thin air

[mint citrus]

Johnson showing up just in the nick of time seems way too convenient

[marble dawn]

That and there being a rogue agent Johnson division equipment that cleaner Johnson got through Cal

[static crypt]

plot twist - division agents are just rogue hunters

[marsh sundial]

with the amount of shady stuff connected to the division origin the odds that the plan was for us to become Hunters and just didn't want to does seem likely

[hardy linden]

in the division 1 im still annoyed at how u use an elevator to escape a building that is currently being blown up from the inside in napalm production site

like its already a bad idea to use an elevator in a burning building this is even worse

[wicked gorge]

Nah bro we agents nothing bad happens to us unless the plot demands it

[indigo apex]

Well i guess I'm playing division 1 till maintenance over on division 2. Yuppies.

[marble dawn]

What are they even talking about in the new descent comm?

[torpid yacht]

Which virus has more effect of the human society: the Simian Flu (Planets of the Apes) or the Dollar Flu?

[ashen jungle]

well the Dollar Flu (actually an engineered strain of smallpox) was designed to effect 95% of humanity and be lethal to that 95%.
Simian Flu was a potential cure for Alzheimer's and was accidentally lethal.

So going by that, it has to be Green Poison.

[gaunt ice]

Wasn’t the Simian flu the one that make apes hyper intelligent or something

Or am i thinking of the wrong movie since there’s like 2-3 of them

[sleek plover]

Wait, there gonna be a yuppie faction in div 3?

Literally an army of American Psychoesque killers

[ashen jungle]

Just an entire faction made up of people who like hair gel a little too much.

[unreal flame]

isnt there already a vaccine for smallpox that everyone takes which is why its all but eradicated? so 95% lethality would literally be impossible since our body would already be able to deal with smallpox

like if your gonna genetically engineer a virus, engineer something that we havent cured

[ashen jungle]

As I said, it's an engineered strain (named Smallpox Variola Chimera), not one that evolved naturally. It's specifically designed to be as lethal and far-spreading as possible.
As for why Amherst picked Smallpox, I'm sure there's a reason beyond "ooh scary".

here, read this. It's an interesting topic: https://thedivision.fandom.com/wiki/Green_Poison

[unreal flame]

Again it's still smallpox, which means 99.9% of people in the western world, would already be vaccinated against it so regardless if you make it able to spread more and more lethal, it'd barely do anything due to literally everyone being vaccined

Viruses are quite shit, if you wanna kill a ton of people, genetically engineer a disease, a disease is much much harder to cure and you can't vaccinate for a disease

[ashen jungle]

I'm sure the writers of this particular story-line have thought about it more than either of us put together, so let's not disparage anyone's work by pretending that either of us are virus/disease experts.

[unreal flame]

Don't get me wrong, smallpox is scary, if somehow a strain of super smallpox appeared that the vaccine is useless again that shit scary

Only thing to kill more is the common cold

[gaunt ice]

But what about the common hot

[sick lantern]

disease is not a term that refers to any particular type of pathogen, do you mean bacteria, prion, etc

[desert summit]

Didn't it say in Div1 that Amherst combined different strains of different viruses or whatever to make The Dollar Flu?

[ashen jungle]

Yep, that's what the "chimera" part means. It's an ancient Greek mythological animal that was made up of bits of other ones.

So any talks of an existing vaccine working are kinda silly.

[frail coyote]

Was bored and watched the final cutscene for stovepipe mission; after Lewis kills the 3 man BTSU squad you clearly hear Nataylia say over comms "Agent, execute" not hunter, I feel like this is another piece of foreshadowing about Agent Johnson's allegiance

[near ibex]

did the green poison hit the entire world or just the US?

[sick lantern]

it’s spread internationally

[near ibex]

i wonder how other nations handled it

[ashen jungle]

Well most of the world is likely dead, so I'm assume: not well.

[sick lantern]

https://youtu.be/YGkQ-LH0NLA?si=yTVExIB7ZoML2mOW

[surreal hearth]

Been checking lores behind paradise lost and oh my god

Natalya sokolova is extremely dangerous than we imagine she thinks herself like some far cry villain but with far more calculations and she has deeper connections with some allies to her side

Some guy by the name of hellfire has several embeds with the cleaners that are now extremely modified to a pure symbolism

This basically another of those keener hiccups that nat is using to tie up loose ends and create some compliance thing against her former friend

It’s possible this hellfire may have been a hunter

Or a rogue agent being used by nat to avoid any suspicious what’s even sad that these particular cleaners are part of the lovebird group

What’s worst is using cals McManus hunter connection to draw less attention from any black tusk involved

[late void]

Isn't Hellfire just the callsign for Wright?

[surreal hearth]

Yeah I think so im just looking at the lore right now

Interesting

Identification: agent Johnson

Status: rogue

This is a massive red flag for Johnson

[surreal hearth]

Yeah which means this is the first hunter that can actually talk

[late void]

where is he designated a hunter?

[sick lantern]

nowhere

seeing as he seemingly answers moreso to Nat than Cal (if THIS is the follow up to the Hunters secretly embedded in the Black Tusk I swear) I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that he isn't, until it's explicitly stated that it's now kosher for Hunters to set themselves on fire and wield battleaxes.

[surreal hearth]

Hunters are usually mutes but this hellfire is somewhat a hybrid

Meaning that he took the hunter program a lot more than jack Bonney

Imagine a dangerous hunter tech to be fallen under SHD control we make our own hybrid version of hunters for ourselves

I’m second guessing that those watches he was wearing may have been from other agents but he’s also using rogue agent watches disguised as division agents

He may also have access to the Diamond program which can mass manipulate any sort of SHD ID system meaning that anyone can be an agent

[lunar harbor]

Johnson's the Cleaner Boss we killed at the end of the Incursion, not Agent Johnson -

He was given access to SHD Tech by Wright 'Hellfire'

[surreal hearth]

Oooh

Same last names

I also wonder

[wicked gorge]

I want a rogue hunter dammit

Man I can’t wait for next season to go back to New York and get more intel about keener

[hardy linden]

why did they give agents the ability to go rogue in the first place

like you have to use your watch to go rogue and isac still works so it seems like they are basically giving you the option

[tepid ibex]

Right, and like, in a real life scenario, a Division agent could kill a civilian without the watch turning red because it's not like they have someone always watching them. You could quite literally have a rogue Division agent without anyone's knowledge.

[hardy linden]

the division was just a top secret social experiment to see what people would do with all of the power and none of the responsibility

amherst was working with the government to help them do it

sometimes my genius is almost frightening

[surreal hearth]

A powerful mind can lead to many outcomes and consequences

Division is top secret but nobody knows about the founder that made the division in the first place

It could be McManus since he’s playing multiple sides of this attrition apocalypse warfare

[hardy linden]

also why do both games hate dogs

you can kill them easily but they give nothing, they run away from you especially in div 2, and you cant even pet them

[tepid ibex]

You can pet one in particular in Haven. Thats it

[sleek plover]

LMB and True Sons murders dogs

[sick lantern]

ISAC doesn’t still work that’s why ANNA is a thing

it’s not an “ability”

[mint citrus]

Directive 51 is signed by him for operation Dark Winter

[gaunt ice]

what

[sick lantern]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_and_Homeland_Security_Presidential_Directive

[gaunt ice]

i mean its just outta nowhere

[sick lantern]

what is

[gaunt ice]

him who

[sick lantern]

what

[marble dawn]

You can pet Ransom too when he is not patrolling around castle

[cold bramble]

Think he's just some BT grunt tasked to he in bed with the cleaners

Just got his gear from bt or cal

[marble dawn]

Probably a bit higher up than some grunt considering how casual he was with Nat and knowing about Cal in the first place

Considering Cal had embedded his people in BT maybe he has them in other factions as well, though Wright specifically seemed to answer more to Nat

[cold bramble]

Most def

It's possible there's more bt agents in every faction

Using them all for BTs interests

[surreal hearth]

Bt grunts don’t suddenly turn into hybrids

This is probably one of McManus or nats Allies

Who was part of the hunter program way before jack Bonney

Pretty much a “hidden alliance” that lau was trying to warn us about

[cold bramble]

Have you seen the art for the chungas.

Those guys are absolute units even without the armor

[cold bramble]

Hunter program, eh I doubt it

They probably just gave him heavy gear and the devs didn't know what to give him, so they just made the hunter hatchet longer and called it a day

[surreal hearth]

Hmm

[surreal hearth]

Big Chung armor full of free watches for anyone to be an agent of the division

[marsh sundial]

Weird thonk, someone using anna and shd tech to create new agents. Not for evil but just because logically there isn't enough agents to deal with the 50 different flavors of moron fighting to be king crap of trash kingdom

[sick lantern]

have you heard of a certain Division novel called Recruited

[torpid yacht]

If dollar flu exists and caused a global pandemic (akin to Covid-19), do you think our world will go into chaos like in TD—governments collapse, people turn into looters, and societal collapse, or it will just similar to how we live our lives 2-3 years ago?

[ashen jungle]

The Green Poison (or Dollar Flu, whatever you like) was specifically designed to have a 90-95% mortality rate. It's very different from a real-life pandemic of something that evolved on its own.

[sick lantern]

this is the lore channel

[sleek plover]

Also we have cookies

[gaunt ice]

Lookin back at div1 again LMB always has that tacticool drip

And then black tusk has those lame ahh airsoft gear

[marble dawn]

Id love to see the JTF'd LMB uniforms as apparel

[cold bramble]

Black tusk look so goofy compared to the lmb

Like chairs said, they look like a bunch of nerf fanboys who tried looking militaristic

Have you seen the guns some of them use too? They look like lego guns

[wicked gorge]

Ay lego guns are op man

[ashen jungle]

Wait, don't BT just use the ingame guns we already have? It seems weird that MSV would give them unique weapons.

[wicked gorge]

They use the p416

[sick lantern]

which you can get

[urban musk]

at this point, I think we're due for a JTF apparel event.

[tepid ibex]

Right?! I mean the Squad Leader has the best drip but when you see that Legendary Heavy, sheeesh 🥶.

[tepid ibex]

Like in that animated WONY trailer right? Cus thats what i think of

[gaunt ice]

you cant take over NYC as a fascist PMC without impeccable drip

[tepid ibex]

It’s part of the strat, gotta attract a fan base through aesthetics 🤌

[cold bramble]

They do? Istg, I was running legendary when I saw that a thrower had a weird futuristic ass gun

[gusty fulcrum]

Bugged texture lol

[hardy linden]

so what exactly happened at roosevelt island

[tepid ibex]

JTF go True Son, True Son be mean to quarantined civilians, quarantined civilians go Outcast. Outcast be like 😡💥

[wicked gorge]

That is honestly the most accurate way of explaining it

[gusty fulcrum]

• plane crash with experimental EMPs specifically designed to target division agents that got distributed to the various factions

[marsh sundial]

One faction from d1 or d2 that you can agree is monsters but had a somewhat reasonable cause to be so

I'm thinking rikers, I would publicly kill every member of the leadership and anyone dumb enough to support them first but I would work alongside most of them

[sick lantern]

bad take

the Rikers are easily the most evil faction

[ashen jungle]

Black Tusk are trying to take over the world, Cleaners are trying to burn people alive, True Sons are launching chemical weapons on innocent populations, Hyena's are trying to just kinda cause anarchy, Outcasts are trying to blow up the world but don't work with Hyena's for some reason that I've never quite worked out, and the Rikers are just kind of gang members who want to start their own society maybe and also really like murder.
Let's face it, all the factions are evil in their own special way.

[marsh sundial]

I think my logic was the rikers might be easiest to redeem. It would be a lot of heads on pikes but I think the fact they don't have a major ideal beyond not being screwed with I think I could reform them

Odds are it be months if not years until they're trustworthy but still

[cold bramble]

Cleaners are easily the least evil

While the rikers are the most

[ashen jungle]

BT helped kill the president, Sokolova is going to be executed for Treason and I'm fairly sure we could make a good case for the rest of them too.

[cold bramble]

Oh yeah I forgot they poisoned the 1st dude

[ashen jungle]

Every single faction is guilty of crimes against humanity outside of the (defintiely current) JTF and (probably) Peacekeepers.
I'm not sure why people keep trying to do a "who is less evil" thing, but that's kinda div2's thing: none of them are good.

[cold bramble]

True true

[marsh sundial]

Problem with the cleaners are they are insane. The cleaner ideals are like a virus, unironically burn them out

Same with the outcast

[ashen jungle]

Actually they're guilty of 2 presidential deaths in that case. They paid the secret-service agents to fake his self-death.

then killed them to cover it up.

and also killed an entire settlement in the intro to div2, where we were staying.

[ashen jungle]

I actually really appreciate that they made 2 fire-based factions, but one is pro virus and one is anti virus.
Why the pro virus one is also fire based is beyond me, but there we go.

[marsh sundial]

Logical cleaners would be in the dark zone cleaning the worst of the infected dead

[ashen jungle]

Sure but Outcast wanting to spread the virus and their fighting method being something that kills the virus.
It'd be like if Hyena's primary weapon was DARE adverts.

[sick lantern]

they were

[cold bramble]

They were in the D1 DZ

You forget that there was a cleaner event where the subway tunnels would get extremely dangerous and the cleaners would show up

In NY rn, there's no dz but who's to say there's not multiple cleaner strongholds throughout the city

[wicked gorge]

Technically no, black tusk wanted Ellis alive, but Faye knew if he was alive the division wouldn’t stand a chance

[urban musk]

Let's be clear, the JTF are the least evil faction, because it takes people who actually want to help and not profit off of what at the time seems like the end of the world (As seen in some graffiti) to join. the true sons came about because they were tired of loosing people and supplies to the virus. still it doesn't give them the excuse to kill civilians and leave them to die on Roosevelt Island. that's messed up, and that's where I draw the line.

[wicked gorge]

Sounds like a JTF problem #truesons4lifr

[ashen jungle]

You're thinking of the wrong one. They told the secret service agents who helped fake his "self death" that they'd get them out of DC to safety, then killed them to cover it up.

and possibly helped poison the previous one, but I'm not 100% sure on that part.

[wicked gorge]

First one died of heart attack due to stress and age, second one you’re right, thats my bad

[ember temple]

Wasn't it implied the previous one was poisoned

[ashen jungle]

I don't think it's explicitly stated anywhere, but in a Tom Clancy-style plot it wouldn't surprise me if they did actually poison him or fake the heart attack.
Since it's stated that he was "found dead by a heart attack", we can surmise that it didn't happen in front of anyone else.

[ember temple]

I think I've even read it on the loading screen hints and tips

[ashen jungle]

He was 71 so that should factor into it, but even at 71 these days it's not all that old.

Unless we get specifically told at some point though, we should probably take it as a theory.

[wicked gorge]

Probably mix of old age and stress

[full pulsar]

some 71's are thriving, some are completely depleted. ya never know, individuals and very individual

[frail coyote]

my non-blood related grandparents talk about they're younger friends dying when they are 77 and 75 and are just thriving and honestly could see them making it to 90+ with their heath and mind intact

[devout surge]

There's an echo in garage just to the west of the white house campus that has the conspirators congratulating the two responsible for poisoning the previous president just before offing them to cover their tracks.

So definitely not a 'natural' heart attack.

[ashen jungle]

Actually that's not right, the ones in the parking garage are the 2 secret service agents who staged the suicide of Mendez.

[sick lantern]

nah the secret service traitors assassinated the second, the first guy had a heart attack

[devout surge]

IS it not?

Ahh yes. Had the order backwards in my head.

Waller had the heart attack, Mendez was the faked suicide.

Head canon had Waller with the suicide and Mendez with a faked heart attack. But really, if you are dropping presidents that quickly, everything passed the first should be suspicious regardless of circumstances.

[rustic wedge]

It's still weird to me how completely insane the cleaners are when it was just some fat old union dude who listened to Rush Limbaugh too much convincing service workers to burn infected areas, and then they eventually burn infected. Then they just all, uh, go completely insane?

[fringe gale]

they were prob already off the deep end seeing the city go to hell and their family members being killed off by the green poison, so it only took one guy on the radio that was well liked by a good bunch of people and you've got the Cleaners

[cold bramble]

Doesn't help they're just abunch of puppets now to the BT

[wicked gorge]

The cleaners started out as a part of the jtf, and as time went on they believed that the only way to stop the virus was to use fire, they believe that they’re doing the right thing

[gaunt ice]

not really,they're NYC sanitation workers

they have flamethrowers to burn the corpse initially

[indigo apex]

Not sure if they were added later on.

[sick lantern]

what?

[cold bramble]

Black tusk have always been here wdym

[solemn sentinel]

we allowed to talk about more recent story stuff here?

[sick lantern]

why not

[wicked gorge]

It’s the universe channel for a reason, spread the lore bae

[cursive tapir]

anyone read the new book yet?

[wicked gorge]

It’s not out yet

I think

[marble dawn]

Think it was in january(?)

[wicked gorge]

It comes out in January

[marble dawn]

what were the other books in the series? should probably get on that with how they tie into the game's story

[wicked gorge]

Broken dawn, recruited, and compromised

[marble dawn]

In that order? thanks

[wicked gorge]

Shit now that you said it yeah, that order😂

[sick lantern]

Broken Dawn isn’t part of Operation Crossroads

[wicked gorge]

I know, I’m talking about all the novels

[sick lantern]

well you forgot New York Collapse

and if you wanna include graphic novels, Remission

[sick lantern]

Extremis Malis is a thing too, which is where the Agent Johnson guy who's reappeared this season is from

[marble dawn]

Think I read that one, the comic right

[sick lantern]

yes

[wicked gorge]

Is agent Johnson the same person from the comic, I thought they were separate people

[marble dawn]

It seems like theyre the same person but we dont know for sure

Not to be confused with the "rogue agent" cleaner Johnson from the incursion

[sick lantern]

well there’s only one Agent Johnson we know of and Manny’s familiar with him so

same person

unless the writers are on massive amounts of crack and/or trolling, and there are three Johnsons around

[ashen jungle]

Let's be honest, it's basically "Smith" in how common of a surname it is.

If there is only 1 person named Johnson in the entire div canon, I'd be very surprised.

[wicked gorge]

Basically it’s the Alex situation from the division 1

[surreal hearth]

Natalya may end up going paranoid mode in the future

She’s facing a power trip on certain parts between the division and McManus

And she’s most likely to throw whatever cards she has on her table but tries to rely less for the caliber safety of her own black tusk

[gaunt ice]

honestly in a direct confrontation between Hunters and BT i would actually bet on the BT

just cuz of the sheer number and resources they have

we are literally the only outlier to the whole 1 man army thing.
everyone else is just fodder

Hunters are better trained but they lack number

[wicked gorge]

You also would have to consider the environment, if it’s a mot Urban area, then the hunters would have a better advantage

[late void]

can hunters hack bt tech though? If all BT's drones, warhounds etc turned against them, that would make things awkward (although i guess as soon as BT figured that out they'd adapt their tactics)

[sick lantern]

if Keener can hack it, Hunters can probably hack it

it's made by the same people who made SHD tech and they can hack that so

[gaunt ice]

i like how that is just never brought up ever again

Keener casually taking over a Marauder

and the lore implication was “just because”

does that make Diamond,SHD and ANNA connected?

what does Keener know?

screw that lol

also someone clear me on this:what is exactly stopping BT from pulling another stunt like Stovepipe

attack both Castle AND White House

or take Jefferson’s server again lol since apparently we don’t gaf bout it anymore

the servers for the AI that is our only edge over a vastly superior hostile force?nahhhh who tf cares we need to go save people for the fish tacos

[wicked gorge]

If keener was able to hack bt tech, then no doubt the hunters could, plus McManus said he had a few ops in her organization she didn’t know about

[wicked gorge]

Technically they are connected by the organization that created the AI, ISAC is just the dumbest version given to agents, with Anna being the smartest of the 3 if im right

And to answer your question why they don’t attack or pull a stunt like stovepipe, plot convince, the old Tom Clancy style

[sick lantern]

well, (in the Doylist sense not the Watsonian) Diamond didn’t exist at the time (and we don’t even know how Diamond actually is used either), so the Marauder was just a drone with no advanced systems to countermeasure an ISAC-equivalent intelligence

[cold bramble]

Same reason why the enemy factions who's numbers are much higher can easily overtake the safe houses or the castle and white house

From my understanding, there's very little agents in DC, besides our ands kelso, you'd think they'd be able to pull something off quick

[gaunt ice]

The thing is that we crippled MOST factions

But BT is more than capable of pulling another stunt like this

[gaunt ice]

This all seems hypothetically

Its not wrong

It just FEELS wrong

[cold bramble]

True but you're not gonna tell me that some hyenas or outcasts can't take over safe houses

If they're able to retake control points then I'm sure they could take those too

[gaunt ice]

The safehouses with a bunch of Agents in it?

Cap

[hardy linden]

who is the radio man

[cursive tapir]

Just finished reading compromised

||Given what we learned about McManus and the Hunters, I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say that Maira ending up in the hands of Homeland Security is NOT good ||

[mint citrus]

I would assume so. In any other case, any other narrative, that would be a good thing. But not here.

[marsh sundial]

You know would be kind of a neat thing. With mgs4 they released digital corkboard in a sense that explains and covers the major hitters of the setting. Would love a division one, bonus if it was in-game and connected between d1, d2, heartland, and digital copies of the books

Could do neat things like an "agent mode" that only show stuff that "you the agent" would know

[frail coyote]

I truly hope they don't make agent Johnson the recruiter, they've done a horrible job trying to not make it glaringly obvious; at this point an rugpull like Agent Sanders would be a welcome surprise.

[gaunt ice]

(They will)

[marble dawn]

With a 4 month season itd be hard to do anything between obvious and rugpull so I dont really mind

[limpid monolith]

I wonder if the Stinger Hunter outfit used to belong to the Hunter of the same name that perished during an encounter with rogue/normal agents in the past.

[tepid ibex]

We need Legendary WONY missions 😤

[static crypt]

you'd be down to play a legendary version of Liberty Island? 😭

[tepid ibex]

Well, most likely Wall Street cus that’s just the best mission in the game hands down

[ashen jungle]

And I thought "how many rouges do I need to kill" was the silliest thing I'd read today.

[sick lantern]

the mask is from one of the hunter appearances from div 1, they just made up an outfit for it

[cursive tapir]

I just wished we'd actually gotten to meet him in a cutscene, preferably last season or earlier

[mint citrus]

Agreed. Though there might be a reason we haven't seen him

[urban musk]

because... he's the recruiter.

[mint citrus]

Yeah that tracks.

[static crypt]

lmao watch them change the Recruiter's identity last minute 💀

[sick lantern]

considering what went down with Stovepipe, expect it

[gaunt ice]

The Recruiter is actually Alex

[tepid ibex]

I thought they got him?

[gaunt ice]

we’re about to get him again

[tepid ibex]

Oh shit, the sequel

[cold bramble]

Where do yall yet these leaks

[sick lantern]

it’s incredibly obvious that johnson is the recruiter, to the point where that’s why i think it could be a double bluff lol
you’re not supposed to discuss leaked content here

[gaunt ice]

even blind people can see this from a mile away

[surreal hearth]

Well this is interesting

According to one of the decent comms the eggheads behind ISAC and ANNA were being used to field test one of Natalya’s warhound to make them “self guidance” meaning that they are programmed to kill us and everyone else but the black tusk

This makes sense cuss both AI nodes have some self integrated guidance to navigate agents or machines to their objective

This was worked alongside with Trig

The man who made the warhounds

And oh no this is bad

Looks like McManus and his NSA agent found out about Gonzales but failed to contain the situation which resulted the entire detention center contaminated by green poison

The funny thing is that the NSA was using division ISAC to fast detect the green poison which lead McManus in some interest

Overall McManus is nothing more than a failed civil servant for the United state

Should have kept a close eye for Amherst and failed to address the problem

He chose to ignore it and the consequences are on him

And holy cow McManus has agent Johnson and Vivian Conley on the NSA simulation test

Aaaand they are mentioning nano technology

[sick lantern]

which they shouldn’t be, not only because it’s exclusive to the SHD, but also, again, NSA is under the DOD, whilst the SHD is under the DHS

[surreal hearth]

Indeed McManus definitely broke a lot of national security rules

[sick lantern]

or the writers just messed up

[surreal hearth]

That too

I mean seriously? Nano machines?

[wicked gorge]

Ubisoft could know that and throw a major plot twist in, idk it just seems so expected

[sick lantern]

yes that's what I said.

[wicked gorge]

Shit man, my bad I read the first sentence 😂

[vast grove]

Hmm Johnson makes sense but for some reason it looks to me that the recruiter is female npc model (smaller hands, rounder face and eyes from some angles). It is just my feeling and I agree with Johnson theory.

[wicked gorge]

Maybe Kelso got tired of everyone calling her a traitor

[ashen jungle]

Considering there's someone in the faction who likes to give people scabies as a joke, and another person who likes to push people off rooves as a habit, it's probably not the safest one to join for a long life.

[static crypt]

yknow Mayhem and Zodiac are still alive somewhere

hoping the roadmap has plans for them and the Hyenas

[sleek plover]

Would form my own instead

Already fantasized about it enough in this chat so...

[gusty fulcrum]

Didn't we kill mayhem in DUA tho?

[static crypt]

No but we killed like 3 other council ppl

[gusty fulcrum]

Mayhem was the boss with the shield no?

[static crypt]

i think that was either Books or Dime

and then Diesel was the dude in the humvee

idk if im getting those 3 names mixed up

[late void]

mayhem is on the comms talking (same with Bank Headquarters) but doesn't actually show up in the mission

[surreal hearth]

Mayhem is pretty much one of the major leader of the hyenas mostly the last hyena leadership but I got a feeling that mayhem will play a major role somewhere

[gusty fulcrum]

I swear we killed.mayhem isn't she a sniper

Wait am I going nuts

[gusty fulcrum]

Books was the one in the mall yeah dime is in the arena

[surreal hearth]

That’s coyote

[gusty fulcrum]

What

Okay I'm gonna stop talking idfk what my mind is doing anymore xD

[static crypt]

• Coyote
• Roach
• Diesel
• Books
• Dime
• Mayhem
• Zodiac

3 from DUA, one from Hotel, one from JTC, and two escaped

[cold bramble]

Nah they'll probably just forget about it

[gusty fulcrum]

Who's zodiac?

[sick verge]

Zodiac is a hyena council member and incharge of the hyena spice production. I think he has some lines during the Arena mission, 1 comm and the merciless exotic rifle.

He is the only surviving member besides mayhem

[brave flicker]

i love the lore of this game i wanna get back into it

[surreal hearth]

Another day another successful rescue

Been listening to the new audio logs

Natalya and cal were conspired to commit mass puppetry warfare after president Mendez was shot by his own secret service

They are also responsible for shooting down the Air Force one most likely using a rogue SAM missile launcher

Also it looks like the next audio log about cal meeting with this recruiter to Natalya which confirmed that he has a third party faction know as hunters in his organization right under the division and rogue noses

And cal is massively paranoid which confirmed that he trained these hunters to be complete mutes and not to speak nor interact just watch and observe under his direct orders aside from that they may have voice scramblers in order to communicate with each other or used Tex messages.

This recruiter was most likely the one that trained jack Bonney for this “test” that we sabotage.

[gaunt ice]

Bruh did they just retcon that again

True sons shot down air force one last i checked

[surreal hearth]

Pretty much I feel like a Home wreck

[surreal hearth]

No it was staged if it were true sons more sooner we be dealing an even more problematic military collapse of the US army

[sick lantern]

yea i’m pretty sure

[surreal hearth]

But then again it is retcon

[sick lantern]

that’s just what they do with the plot now

[median crag]

I hope we get to fight the Recruiter, I miss the manhunts being actual manhunts, not rescues.

[sick verge]

Pretty sure the True Sons still own credit for that.

What Natalya is refering to is the Hyenas holding him. Black Tusk had some secret ties with them

Nothing in the comm indicates Black Tusk shot down Air Force 1

[static crypt]

Definitely is True Sons, despite the in-game screen saying it was an unknown force that did it

crashed in front of the Capitol which had those SAM turrets coincidentally there

[cold bramble]

How the hell did hyenas get ahold of the prez in true son territory

[gusty fulcrum]

how the HELL did arnold get to capitol hill

[sick verge]

That's exactly what I was thinking

[gusty fulcrum]

"weve tracked malik to darpa labs" just waiting to hear this

[sick verge]

Nah bud's gonna be on Liberty Island

[gusty fulcrum]

"we found malik but hes in san fransisco"

[sick verge]

Recruiter is gonna be on floor 100 of the summit

[gusty fulcrum]

nah loop 60

[sick verge]

Invaded darkzone

[gusty fulcrum]

c*nflict

[gusty fulcrum]

holy shit is the main mission actually in fed bunker

[marble dawn]

First jack arnolds comms and now this https://youtu.be/d6jB5Pj9Nx8

What a lovely week for lore

[gusty fulcrum]

whats that a video of

[ashen jungle]

A descent comm with an overly dramatic picture.

[gusty fulcrum]

ah

[frail coyote]

huh just considered

with Jack rescued we are at 15/33 comms for puppeteer

we are getting a massive lore drop in 4 weeks

[limpid onyx]

Anyone know when will we get the division resurgence?

[ashen jungle]

1. if you can't find it just by googling it, chances are that no one here has better info.
2. this is a channel for discussing lore.

[limpid onyx]

Sorry😥

[ashen jungle]

All good, it is somewhat poorly named.

[surreal hearth]

The black tusk and true sons are using off the radar tactics to mask our hostages current location and the only way to forced them out of hiding is by taking over black tusk control points, killing true sons leader, and taking over another control point

Eventually they’ll run out of place to cover their tracks so they automatically start caving themselves through bigger areas.

This leads us to massacre or genocide the entire black tusk true son battalions completely

[brave flicker]

question. wtf is the black tusk doing in NY

[lusty gull]

weren't they there from the beginning of WONY?

[brave flicker]

nope, they just started as soon as i got to keener

[lusty gull]

did you finish WONY?

[brave flicker]

nope, juuuust about done. i need to get one more level until im done

[lusty gull]

I think the Black tusk first appear in the Coney Island mission, it’s the intro to WONY

Have you played that one yet

[brave flicker]

really? i hadn't played that mission and im well into WONY

[lusty gull]

It was released before WONY was, as a sort of hype for it

But ye you’re supposed to play it before WONY

[frail coyote]

@lusty gull after you have triangulated Keeners position it's leaked to the BTSU who are after Keener for reasons unknown

[lusty gull]

@brave flicker

[sick lantern]

because he betrayed them on coney island

[frail coyote]

some players don't play the DLC and jump straight to WoNY, didn't want to spoil anything

[static crypt]

i believe they also wanted Tchnerneko, who was in Keener's possession at the time

[sick lantern]

if you play the content set after coney having skipped it, you are literally playing an extended spoiler that dinnae make sense

[frail coyote]

alot of new players ask on Reddit "I beat tidal tidal basin what now?

90% of ansowers is do wony

[static crypt]

speaking of tidal basin

has anyone pointed out that they added a shit ton of Ortiz equipment there?

[frail coyote]

I might be a bit hopeful, but I think after we rescue Vikram, Manny is going to tell us to go after Agent Johnson, not calling him "The Recruiter" just because of the Jack Comms, she mentioned that an agent "John, Tim, Robinson" they say they will check the logs on who the agent was and know it is Johnson, then after rescuing Jack in the debriefing he mentions first and foremost that Johnson is back.

they probably know that since Johnson is Division he will have access to the same comms we have, he is essentially playing the same game Natalya did with us during the stovepipe mission by leaving us red herring comms

[gusty fulcrum]

If he was the recruiter he'd also have access to the Hunter watch (which is a confirmed thing now I think)

[frail coyote]

true which would explain why the servers keep bugging out

if they can turn off SHD tech, then regular ass servers should be a piece of cake

[cursive tapir]

So, the Recruiter is confirmed male, and it seems that Hunters CAN speak, they’re just instructed not to

God it’s so gonna be Johnson, isn’t it

[frail coyote]

Would like to see us chase down Johnson and him br like "looks I see potential in you for the next level, join the hunters" and have an actual choice not obligatory no I'm loyal the the division

[ashen jungle]

How would you see that working in looter-shooter, where we need to work with other Agents in the future?

Splitting the player-base between "loyal" and "not loyal" zones seems like a bad idea.

[frail coyote]

With how small the current player bases is yeah its a bad idea

Personally just want to see something to shake things up, make the game a bit more interesting

The fact we haven't gotten a new skill varient in over 4 seasons is depressing, especially since there is enemy tech we could just take

The rogues Hacking pulse, Williams chimera Chem launcher, and sticky seeker bombs, Lt. Grey's ironclad Chem launcher

[ashen jungle]

IIRC they put new skills on hold for the time being, my personal assumption is until the DLC drops, which will likely have some.

MSV don't like to pre-announce things a particularly long amount of time in advance, so expect a trailer for it a month before it drops, at most.

[static crypt]

that thing with the server is that there was a heavy emphasis on Mari when they talked about when it started to glitch out

[wicked gorge]

The numbers Mari, what do they mean

[cold bramble]

wakes up

Fuck that'd be so lit though

[wicked gorge]

Ngl being a hunter would be amazing

[gaunt ice]

I dont think they’ll do new skills again probably because they cant balance them all

[sick verge]

We actually had this in destiny 2 a couple years ago where you had to side with the vanguard or the drifter. The story remained the same but there would be differences in dialogue and a couple extra's depending on which side you proved your loyalty to

Ig the same could be done in the division 2. Same mission but different dialogue depending on which side you pic

In reality this ofcourse would never happen since it's pretty clear we are loyal to the division

[gaunt ice]

What you didn’t mention is that it had zero repercussions on the story

So basically filler arc

[sick verge]

True. Season of the drifter was hot garbage imo

Except for prime

That was a nice addition

But the I was just trying to show a way in which you could do this divide in loyalty thing in the division. Since whatever you choose you'll probably still get the same missions. Doubt massive would make different missions depending on which side you join

[wicked gorge]

Honestly they should make a spin off game about the division that takes a mix of ghost recon and a story mode that lets you have certain decisions to change the story

[ashen jungle]

Yeah that idea has been bandied around here for the last 5+ years.

IIRC last big point made about it was that it couldn't be a looter-shooter since you can't change a games world for one person and not another.

[gaunt ice]

Div isnt the kind of live service that can do a “make a choice” scenario unfortunately

Maybe if its like an ingame event like what warzone 2 did

But not this one

[wicked gorge]

If they do I feel it should be more stand alone and just be the story only, idk about y’all but I’ve never been a huge fan of the division multiplayer

Well pvp I should say

[ashen jungle]

I will avoid talking about my own game concept again, but Division: Rogue is still a "i hope one day" thing for me.

[unreal widget]

I wanna be able to join Keener.

[gusty fulcrum]

like the tombs

[frail coyote]

yeah still bothers me that even though he was a rogue why didn't anyone on our end try corroborating what Theo was saying and potentially look into it further

[wicked gorge]

Since there’s rogues that went awol either by desertion to be with their families or other bs, could they rejoin the division if they wanted to

[frail coyote]

I would love for Div 3 for there to be a mix of Division and Rogue agents working together for that reason specifically some did go rogue because they were fatigued.

[cold bramble]

I doubt it since it's committing treason and I'm pretty sure ISAC marks you in the system when you've gone rogue

If that is possible though, why don't people just remove their SHD tech and move on

[sick lantern]

I can only presume that's what "going rogue by going awol for ur famili" entails.

feckin traitors

[frail coyote]

I mean div 3 after everything we learned everyone going onto the ANNA system would be preferable since she is literally an AI that can pass the Teuring test

people like agents who gave up the fight could be reinstated

the fact we are still on ISAC when we know there is a superior tech available is ridiculous

[sick lantern]

almost as if the whole "ISAC=bad" thing is malarky

[fringe gale]

i get it tbf

[frail coyote]

have you heard the Descent comms, its clearly stated the ISAC is a dumbed down version of ANNA

[gusty fulcrum]

I mean the whole point of hunters existing is to take care of maliciously rogue agents. But the fact that the watch can accidentally mark agents rogue means there's a way to reconvert them

[cursive tapir]

It’s also wild because ISAC clearly has some sort of comprehension of human morality which supersedes the whole “answerable only to the president” rule

Given that he marked Ellis’s agents as Rogues and leaving us as Loyalist despite us attempting to arrest him

[sick lantern]

the descent comms, are a bunch of malarkey

[harsh siren]

So I work to much to look into lore information. But what Ranks are Hunters considered??? 🤔

[marsh sundial]

For a division single player game, create an agent or a canon agent and what bit of lore would you want to see explored?

Could be neat I think to see agents activated overseas and how that changes their operation

[gaunt ice]

I feel like being a SHD agent means that you have to be in the country all the time

You know one of those jobs that require you to be present at moments notice

Sure some will let you off easily but when you’re called to work because a riot grew out of control and the fuckin National Guard lost control of the situation and you’re the one who needs to clean it up….yea

[late void]

Wouldn't be unheard of for the US to take 'maintain continuity of government' to mean 'go interfere in another country's politics'

[gaunt ice]

Thats for the CIA

The current lore makes it seem that Division was set up to fail,so i wouldn’t imagine politic people sending Agents to cause a coup

[sick lantern]

it is after all the Strategic Homeland Division

no SHD network coverage in foreign nations

no jurisdiction

[marsh sundial]

We know there's secret shadow government stuff going within SHD leadership. Who's to say there isn't ISAC nodes in American embassies across the globe?

[sick lantern]

besides the fact that they wouldn't have national coverage

and besides the fact that there's not some shadowy SHD commander saying "yesss go invade foreign countries" to legit agents who would be like "wtf"

and besides the fact that there is no evidence of SHD, or black tusk for that matter, interest in gaining ground in foreign nations for the forseeable future

That could be true!

[gaunt ice]

You know,Division is like a sledgehammer that you smash at problems

Stirring a coup to overthrow the current government and put a puppet government in place requires an ice pick

[frail coyote]

From the comms we have access to they seem to be active SHD operatives that aren't using ISAC and were upgraded to ANNA

Also going forward just ignoring webkinz since they seem to not care about the lore and are just a troll

[sick lantern]

are you high????

I'm actually like vaguely personally offended wow.

like bruh what 💀 I got an interest in this shit and you call me a troll

[frail coyote]

Blatantly disregarding in-game lore

[sick lantern]

oh I regard it, and acknowledge it as a bunch of poorly written retcon laden crud

they're (the writing team) the ones disregarding their own fuckin lore

[frail coyote]

What exactly have they retconned with the descent comms?

[gaunt ice]

I wanna say something but yea ill stay out of this

[sick lantern]

the creation of SHD tech, the creation of ANNA, the creation of Black Tusk tech, if they keep up with "McManus is incompetent" then that's retconning the NSA corruption plotline from Broken Dawn and the classified assignments
inconsistencies regarding overblowing the authority of McManus over the SHD as it was explicitly stated they're not actually a part of the DHS as well as having a DHS senator overseeing a DOD operation

off the top of my head

[gaunt ice]

fyi SHD gear origin got retconned 3 times now

[sick lantern]

oh and providing more inconsistency nowadays in how the SHD network functions

[frail coyote]

Creation of ANNA was never a creation of Theo, he explicitly stated that he found a backdoor into the ISAC system not realizing he found a superior version

[sick lantern]

and he didn't find Diamond in the process too cus herp de derp

[frail coyote]

If you found a backdoor into a system with less then a weeks deadline, why go digging for more?

[sick lantern]

nevermind the fact that in Compromised ANNA exclusively refers to all division agents as "rogue agents" showing she was always intended to be the rogue agent network, not something legit created by Ortiz

but nah it doesn't matter cus ISAC is comedically inept and ANNA is super special and amazing and the best most human-like AI that can pass the turing test

she was literally TOO GOOD

cus that's high quality writing right there.

not mary sue silliness

[frail coyote]

I remember Darpa being the original before Ortiz, what was before Darpa?

[sick lantern]

the SHD itself, as it was stated that the SHD manufactures their own technology at the Cores, operating through dummy shell companies, etc.

[frail coyote]

Darpa is part of the US government, so is SHD, would make sense for them to work together to make it

[marsh sundial]

You're putting words in my mouth. Division could be used for more than tossing a seeker mine in El president's bedroom

[gaunt ice]

All SHD tech “originally” were homemade,the Division had its own R&D department

[gaunt ice]

I think he meant that not that we know of,as in “theres nothing to support that and there’s no reason to”

[sick lantern]

"The Division features three sperate departments: Research and Development, Support and Operations.
Research and Development (R&D): The Division's R&D department builds and supports high-level technical solutions for all agency field personnel. Responsible for the development of propietary SHD technology, internally referred to as Shade tech, the R&D group also maintains the agency's arsenal of weapons, field equipment and custom tac ops gear. To retain its covert status (and avoid intrusive political oversight), Division R&D operates out of a consortium of dummy companies. This branch is always active."
and their existence was implicit before, cus you know it's called "SHD tech" not "DARPA tech" or "Ortiz tech", plus the mention of Q-Branch in div 1

[sick lantern]

they could've kept it at that and I would be happier

[gaunt ice]

honestly if we’re being generous DARPA isn’t exactly a retcon and more of an continuation

Like its in the mfking Pentagon,you dont get more secret-y with it

[sick lantern]

yea it makes a lick of sense. I always took more offence to the conenction being introduced because "black tusk division bad!?!?! conspiracehhh" than the baseline of its existence

[gaunt ice]

They can share labs or whatever

[marsh sundial]

We have a Russian national with connections to the green poison. That's a pretty good reason just poke around his home

[sick lantern]

that's a job for the CIA, FBI, whatever, not the roots up organisation dedicated to stopping the american populace from completely collapsing

also uh we took his research and shit from the consulate so.

like this is a non argument. this is a series set in american cities, about american political and cultural themes, centred around a cast embedded in the american populace. there's negative reason to think about "what if SHD in other countries"

[gaunt ice]

On one hand true.
On the other there are multiple other departments that handle it.
And McManus intentionally downplayed the situation as “random nutcase”

Idk but if im a fed i would not poke around when the secretary of the DHS tells me to look the other way

[sick lantern]

@surreal umbra Keener and iirc another rogue swooped in after he got shot, and saved his life

with SHD tech or something I think

[surreal umbra]

Ohhhh

[gusty fulcrum]

Are we talking about hornet

[gusty fulcrum]

Pov the enemies can use reviver hives too

[gusty fulcrum]

Didn't black tusk take tchernenko

[sick lantern]

they tried but the cleaners kicked their arses and we got him

shit i cant actually remember

[gusty fulcrum]

No I mean in the invasion

[sick lantern]

if they did get him from the wh

[gusty fulcrum]

Im pretty sure they did

And they 100% have the tractor

Reactor*

[sick lantern]

perfusion biotractor...

[gusty fulcrum]

Yes

Black tusk like stealing what we stole during their stealing

How the hell did they even get that thing out of there

[late void]

loaded it onto a couple of skateboards & wheeled it outside where the heli could get it

[gusty fulcrum]

That thing is lightweight as hell

[gusty fulcrum]

Why didn't clan vendor person defend it

Who else thinks the main mission will be fed bunker

[wicked gorge]

Bro was busy selling me knee pads my bad guys

[gusty fulcrum]

Bruh

[gaunt ice]

John Vendorman was the reason white house didn’t burn to a crisp have some respect for him

[harsh siren]

Ahh I see

[static crypt]

Tchernenko is definitely gonna be in next season's manhunt

[gusty fulcrum]

Oh shit I forgot since keener is still relevant than so is tchernenko

I hope to God this ain't about a whole eclipse v2

...I just realized it's quite likely that's the case

[wicked gorge]

It’s crazy that keener was revived like hornet was

Only one could dream

[gusty fulcrum]

Wdym

[wicked gorge]

Making a joke that they’ll revive keener like they did hornet

[tiny wraith]

Get ready for lore fill in the blank

Resurgence fills in between 1 and 2

[static crypt]

random shower thought

do you guys think the Hunter Program has any females or is strictly mens only?

[wicked gorge]

Probably does, but the gear they wear might make them look more bulky

[gaunt ice]

Resurgence is the prequel to 1 tho

[tiny wraith]

No it starts as a prequel you get knocked the ......out and wake up after vluss dead

[ashen jungle]

Why would there be a gender bias between men and women? There is literally no reason.

[cold bramble]

That's one long sleep

[tiny wraith]

True but you got blow-up by a boat

[ashen jungle]

You wake up on a cart, you've secretly been sold Skyrim again.

[tiny wraith]

That's possible

👋

I like it it's not sponge Bob bullet eater

[static crypt]

all the hunters we've seen in both Div 1 and 2 have been male

and a lot of special forces units are mostly made up of men

[ashen jungle]

I mean, as far as we know they're all male. Bulky armour if designed right looks very unisex.

[cold bramble]

Well aren't all the cleaners we see also male?

[ashen jungle]

The classic videogame example here is Samus Aran.

I'm like 90% sure there's male and female members of every faction in both games.

I mean it makes sense. You don't turn down bodies who are sympathetic to your cause, no matter what gender they are.

[static crypt]

i believe Cleaner snipers are female iirc

[cold bramble]

oh are they?

[static crypt]

i could be wrong

dont quote me

[ashen jungle]

The only ones I'm 100% sure on are Outcast flamers being women, but that's about it.

[static crypt]

^ that too

[ashen jungle]

I honestly don't bother looking most of the time. I mean, they're NPC's that I'm killing lol.

[cold bramble]

they will die anyway, who cares

[wicked gorge]

They are, Lmb snipers and riker snipers in the first game were female

[static crypt]

ah

[tepid ibex]

It’s weird imo, in an old SoTG podcast, they announced that LMB Scouts/Rushers and Medics were coming to Black Tusk. All the Scouts in the LMB were male so when I saw the new Scouts for BT in TD2 were female i was like, wut. But they got shotguns and shock grenades still ofc

[ashen jungle]

Limited models at one point, less limited after that point.
This is not a new thing.

[wicked gorge]

If the black tusk rushers had shock grenades still, I think I would give up heroic, maybe originally they were all snipers and loaded slugs into their shotguns to remember their sniper past😂

[tepid ibex]

Legendary ones have shocks

[gaunt ice]

Elite rushers on heroic have shocks too i think

They’re like fodder tho so no sweat

[wicked gorge]

Man it’s been awhile then, could of swore they all had flashes

I might just be insane

[gaunt ice]

Nah see

They have flashes that also shocks you

[sleek plover]

I must admit rushers and supports deserve some special combat quotes like "this is for bliss" or sth so it truly feels like Im popping their remnant heads

[gaunt ice]

Thats like saying employees should worship HR for increasing their salary by 1%

[fast wharf]

There's 3 "Isac" networks?

Anna and diamond or whatever that is

[gusty fulcrum]

wdym diamond

[gusty fulcrum]

did i miss something about the story lol

[fast wharf]

There's possibly 3 networks

[gusty fulcrum]

where was diamond mentioned

[fast wharf]

Isac and Anna but one is missing

There's some lore about NGN (that dude)

[gusty fulcrum]

where did he get it from

[fast wharf]

Then i saw that video about 3 networks

And i was like "wdym"

[gusty fulcrum]

i dont remember this ever being mentioned

[fast wharf]

https://youtu.be/F5IlKyXZTFY?si=7lUmPOIpS5Q7pJkq

[gusty fulcrum]

i meant ingame

[fast wharf]

I'm really confused

[fast wharf]

But in the lore

Is there a actual "diamond" network

[gusty fulcrum]

i dont trust lore tubers very much because they dont like proving thigns

and its easy to insert bias

[fast wharf]

What's Bias or biased

I don't understand

[gusty fulcrum]

i meant its easy to insert an opinion as fact

[fast wharf]

O

[gusty fulcrum]

thats kinda what theories are in a sense

(in this context, that is)

[fast wharf]

O

Ty for answering my question

[gusty fulcrum]

i could be wrong and it could be mentioned somewhere i missed but

i dont get why thered be three networks

i mean we know for certain hunters run off their own independent network

[fast wharf]

Wait fr?

[gusty fulcrum]

but we dont know what that network is

[fast wharf]

I think i skipped that

[gusty fulcrum]

did you get this weeks descent comm?

[fast wharf]

I don't do descent

[gusty fulcrum]

so basically

[fast wharf]

It got boring to me

[gusty fulcrum]

an agent got false marked rogue and their skills shut down and they couldnt defend themselves

which pissed off mcmanus

[fast wharf]

What if this diamond (which probably doesn't exist) is actually what hunters secretly use?

[gusty fulcrum]

so they made it so the network doesnt lock up when an agent goes rogue

[fast wharf]

I might be high rn

[fast wharf]

So they use a modified anna or isac

[gusty fulcrum]

and the solution to actually rogue agents is hunters which are on "stage 1"

being three stages; local, regional, national

so hunters are on an activated stage

[fast wharf]

How old is mcmanus

[gusty fulcrum]

but not all of them are activated, like the second wave agents

[fast wharf]

🗿

[gusty fulcrum]

at least 30

[fast wharf]

That means he can still fight

[gusty fulcrum]

totally lol

[fast wharf]

As a hunter

He looks more scary than hunters themselfes

Ngl

[gusty fulcrum]

he 100% aint a hunter

[fast wharf]

Oof

[gusty fulcrum]

like

hunters are literally taught not to speak "in case anyones listening in"

[fast wharf]

O

That explains why they're quiet

Real quiet

[fast wharf]

What happens If they don't follow that protocol

[gusty fulcrum]

youre only allowed to speak with hunters in a faraday box, which is how Sokolova got to meet the Recruiter

[fast wharf]

O

Ngl that rule makes them really creepy

Like they look emotionless

[gusty fulcrum]

what happens when a top government official goes rogue?

they dont.

[fast wharf]

O

[gusty fulcrum]

i could be wrong there could be a protocol in place but unmentioend as of now

[fast wharf]

I wanna know what's the consequences of not following it if it's public execution or something

[gusty fulcrum]

nah

[fast wharf]

Nothing happens?

[gusty fulcrum]

well we dont know if its ever actually happened

[fast wharf]

Imagine If they launch a New recording about what happens if they break that rule

Of a Hunter being unmasked and killed

[gusty fulcrum]

wouldnt be surprised if thats next week

[fast wharf]

In public or in some base

[fast wharf]

Lmao

[gusty fulcrum]

based on what i know which could be wrong, hunters could be using ANNA

[fast wharf]

I think it's a modified anna cuz they can EMP (a bit more than aaron keener i think) and also hack like rogues

Also does hunters use the isac brick or the anna brick (that thing near the neck)

[gusty fulcrum]

keener can also hack

[fast wharf]

That's why i said hack like rogues 🗿

[gusty fulcrum]

so how is it modified

if we dont know the capabilities of ANNA

[fast wharf]

Idk keener modified it for some specific EMP where he can shock you and If you look closely your skills turn red on the skill hud

So maybe they got a modified version except it's weaker?

[gusty fulcrum]

hunters could be using stock ANNA and keener could be using modded

but i heavily doubt its vice versa

[fast wharf]

Imagine If they find keener's corpse to study his Anna

[gusty fulcrum]

but we have his watch..?

[fast wharf]

Also is anna isac or it's a completely different AI?

[fast wharf]

I'm talking about the brick

[gusty fulcrum]

same code different AI

[fast wharf]

The brick can EMP and hack

If we look at the pulse

Which is the brick

[gusty fulcrum]

ANNA is how do i put this

[fast wharf]

O

[gusty fulcrum]

uh

less controlling?

[fast wharf]

Anna is isac except it changes AI?

Interesting

[gusty fulcrum]

im pretty sure if i recall correct it doesnt tell people what to do like ISAC

but gives options rather than just "KILL"

could be wrong

[fast wharf]

So Anna doesn't Tell objectives like "nah i won't help ya lmao" or something

Except it gives options for combat

[gusty fulcrum]

itll give you like multiple ways to deal with a threat

[fast wharf]

O

I Wonder If we will access Anna in the future

[gusty fulcrum]

from what i know, ANNA is just a sublevel above ISAC, just like hunters are a sublevel above agents

[fast wharf]

Also i think the reason hunters do hand signs to notify their friends is to make us not understand what they gonna do unlike rogue agents who keep shouting loudly their location or plan

[gusty fulcrum]

or because they cant talk lmfao?

[fast wharf]

I mean they can except they won't due to that rule

[gusty fulcrum]

i mean if they did talk that would defeat the purpose

[fast wharf]

O

Also is that scrambler (that thing who glitches or hud) is some modified scrambler to keep working when they're near?

Like what's the purpose of It? Scramble the signal so no more reinforcements or something

[gusty fulcrum]

well theres one interesting thing that brings to my mind; we cant actually get any signal outside of dc

right now anyone outside dc cant communicate with us period

[fast wharf]

O

So DC is some dz (no comms from outside) except not in some abandoned infected area

?

[gusty fulcrum]

wdym

[sick lantern]

@gusty fulcrum NGN didn't make up Diamond bruh 💀

there's not some third unknown AI, those are the three AIs, ISAC, ANNA, and Diamond

[gusty fulcrum]

which comm was diamond mentioned in

[sick lantern]

like one of the first ones

[gusty fulcrum]

which one

[sick lantern]

idfk

[gusty fulcrum]

because last i checked that wasnt a thing

[sick lantern]

well it is

[gusty fulcrum]

where

[fast wharf]

So diamond is canonically a AI?

[gusty fulcrum]

i mean i cant rly prove that

[sick lantern]

yes 💀 ofc it is

[fast wharf]

I've never saw that comms or any mention but it's probably some descent comms or something

[gusty fulcrum]

i have all the descent comms i dont remember ever hearing about it

[sick lantern]

you literally posted a video with it in????????

[fast wharf]

It's cuz i've never seen It and because of NGN's video i was like "wait fr?"

[sick lantern]

timestamped it for you https://youtu.be/F5IlKyXZTFY?t=162

[fast wharf]

OHHHH

[sick lantern]

"all three systems" and "the other databases, like Diamond?"

[fast wharf]

probably hunters have access

I think

[sick lantern]

ANNA was intended for the SHD and was supposedly repurposed to be "the rogue network" so presumably, the Black Tusk and/or the Hunters have access to Diamond in turn

[fast wharf]

That explains why they got a long jam

[gusty fulcrum]

wouldnt that imply that diamond isnt one of the systems

[fast wharf]

Advanced AI with 2 of the biggest villains from the game

[gusty fulcrum]

Diamond is more of a codename and less of an AI

[sick lantern]

no

[gusty fulcrum]

so where does it say that diamond is an AI

or are we just assuming it is

[fast wharf]

@sick lantern you really are the all seeing

[sick lantern]

because they are talking about three systems, which are all accessed by the same hardware, and we know that two of those three systems are ISAC and ANNA and they are referring to Diamond in the same context

what else is it? a PDF file?

[gusty fulcrum]

they are referring to diamond in a separate context

[gusty fulcrum]

my assumption is its a codename for a physical database

[sick lantern]

Calvin McManus' filing cabinet, accessed through a high tech watch

[gusty fulcrum]

better than "just a briefcase"

and since they explicitly called it a database

ISAC is an abbreviation. ANNA is an abbreviation. Diamond is a word

two are referred to as systems one is referred to as a database

[sick lantern]

well from your overliteral reading, that would mean that there is not only one as of yet unheard of AI, but also Diamond and other "databases" unheard of
this is all just semantics