td2-build-advice

[smoky latch]

https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/14enYng-1WNGx07vmvEHEHtlvtWfjH5ZNSAlUElXzFBs/edit
"best" general build variant

[cerulean smelt]

can i send an outdated striker backfire with global modifires or overdrive event? 👉 👈

[hexed steppe]

Best build is always mortar... everyone knows that

[smoky latch]

Mortarganda on the rise again

[hexed steppe]

Mortar Gang Rise Up!

They stole season name from me btw

[cerulean smelt]

hides

[lavish plinth]

can i just drop the equliza and overdogs or is ther esomething special to them

[grim bluff]

So does the mortar magically phase through ceilings indoors in low corridors or does it...

[cerulean smelt]

Rise Up localdeck llc?

[thin venture]

what is the talent for the chest piece?

[lavish plinth]

and what is the alternative to the elxington elmos?

[smoky latch]

Farm for an Impetus chest with SD/SH

[cerulean smelt]

upper right hand corner states it

[grim bluff]

Police M4, Carbine

[solar sable]

Police M4 w/Killer

[smoky latch]

Or Measured, better in groups

[thin venture]

oh sorry let me check the library

[lavish plinth]

can i craft it with the police m4 rplica or are the 2 diffrent

[thin venture]

where can i get the perfectly in sync?

[solar sable]

indifferent

[thin venture]

the harmony gun

also future perfect? how did you get another talent

[cerulean smelt]

harmony and Test Subject both have perfect in sync. harmony is rifle, test subject is assault rifle

[zealous axle]

what's a good dz pvp bulid?

[thin venture]

the future perfect how did you have 5 talent?

[woeful zodiac]

Which guns r usually good with the Tinkerer mask?

[smoky latch]

Wdym five talents?

[thin venture]

on the upper right of the build

[willow sigil]

gotta be skill haste, maybe duration?

[thin venture]

you got 3 weapon talents

[smoky latch]

Weapon and gear talents

[cerulean smelt]

3 weapon talents. 2 gear talents

[solar sable]

for what build?

[thin venture]

one for pistol?

[smoky latch]

Pistols have talents too, yes

But nowadays everyone uses the Quickstep pistol for most content

[thin venture]

also that quickstep pistol how do i get one?

[grizzled garnet]

quickstep my beloved

[smoky latch]

Find someone with a Houndsman bounty they can share with you. Ask here in your platform's LFG channel, join the GCROCK discord or the Division 2 Community discord to LFG there.

[grizzled garnet]

wishing we had more loadout slots 😢

[smoky latch]

Same

[cerulean smelt]

don't give them ideas. "Get 16 more loadout slots for 100k premium credits!" 😹

[thin venture]

can you share the links for the other discord?

[grizzled garnet]

nah... that'd be too generous. 100k per

[smoky latch]

You can easily find them via google. I cannot share them here

[thin venture]

thanks mate

[cerulean smelt]

you know #rules and all 😹

i'm sure if we could, there'd be a pin to GCRock discord at least so we can click 📌 and click invite link 😹

[zealous lava]

sup mates,
Do the prototype weapons work with the Tinkerer?
I mean, I'm trying to make my GR9 prototype (with frenzy) work with my M60 (no prototype) with measured, and I don't think it's working, yet I can proc other talents with my GR9 like preservation for example.

[humble compass]

hey yall, is there a math breakdown to see how much skill damage id actually be doing? is there an app or program to make it easier?

[smoky latch]

Your stats overview tells you your skill damage amount, or what do you mean?

[humble compass]

so im planning a build on one of the github apps before i start farming for the items. but it doesnt give me a skill damage number, only weapon / armor numbers

[cerulean smelt]

can't say i've tried a prototype with non prototype

[humble compass]

Essentially im trying to make a refractor healer build. But in order to see how much I’m healing, I have to see how much I’m damaging

Side note, does refractor buff scale with repair skill / incoming repair skill

[cerulean smelt]

no think you need skill damage, but if you got players with like catharsis mask and if there are mods for incoming healing would probably get more healing from you

[smoky latch]

https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/18s3Gr5fZ3DvuA55xeBSyc_2SIusmfMULotivkSfs4xQ/edit
Go on the shooting range and test yourself

[cerulean smelt]

if you got a weapon like capacitor or insync shoot a different target to proc the talents

[humble compass]

looks pretty similar to what i was putting together, except i did refractor chest, waveform holster, and precussive maintanance bag

[zealous lava]

I think it's bugged, bcz Preservation talent work but killer or measured dosnt work.

[runic thicket]

I was looking at that Google doc. I guess I need to put all my effort into getting overdogs

[willow sigil]

if i want to run this with technician i just roll a skill tier back to armor? or do i do weapon damage?

[runic thicket]

I have striker with equalizer already

[smoky latch]

1. The Refactor chest overheals, it's not necessary unless you play with people who die a lot. Then again, those ppl should reconsider they playstyle. You want to use a HE chest talent
2. The Waveform holster is inconsistent, hence never first choice. Go with HE
3. Repair Skills has zero effect on the Refactor healing, switch to Force Multiplier or if you prefer lazy a Hana-U backpack with Tech Support

[cerulean smelt]

was going to ask why not a wyvern, but then was wait, 2 pc wyvern probably bad in general 😹

oh 2 pc hana nm 😹

[dense dock]

I feel like I'm gonna change from Strikers to HB. The survivability of HB just looks like too much fun

[short verge]

cutesy rifle loadout based around using artist's tool, mostly to take advantage of the hefty weapon handling bonus from the seasonal modifiers

[cerulean smelt]

just know over all you'll lose damage

[dense dock]

oh absolutely

[runic thicket]

I just watched a video on this. Looked cool

[cerulean smelt]

ewwww, i need my eyes bleached seeing that backpack

[short verge]

hell yeah, heartbreaker with protection from elites is what i run for retaliations

[dense dock]

What's the gripe with Ninja? I see lots of experienced guys here tear it apart lmao

[smoky latch]

Drop the NBB, do more damage

[cerulean smelt]

@dense dock
#td2-build-advice message

[short verge]

its just running around casual content for fun, weapon handling is addicting

[cerulean smelt]

probably should've thrown the video in community then. build advice = getting build torn apart 😹

[smoky latch]

So is damage

[dense dock]

Is NBB a noobtrap? Like an item that looks too good to pass up but is actually a detriment?

[cerulean smelt]

lack of backpack talent = extremely lower damage

[smoky latch]

Yes it is, for PvE

[short verge]

it is a noob trap, you replace it with the memento or something that does better work

[smoky latch]

It enables good builds for PvP tho

[coral reef]

Change to tech for the bonus to skill damage. And re roll one of them cores to blue or red

[dense dock]

Got it. I see a ton of YTers use it all the time

[short verge]

people get really riled up for no reason if you show it off

[smoky latch]

Because there are people who have no clue and claim NBB builds are the best; when it is methematically proven it's impossible

[willow sigil]

yes. thats exactly what i was asking.

[cerulean smelt]

why don't you throw turmoil in it too 😹

[coral reef]

Youtubers need to come up with an "overpowered" build every week. Dont trust YT

[short verge]

youtubers spouting the same stuff from the build spreadsheet is always a kick

[dense dock]

Oh I don't, not anymore at least. Seems like just about every content creator is hated by this server haha.

[smoky latch]

You mean THIS but more often? Hell no 😂

[dense dock]

LMAO I JUST SAW THIS IN MY FEED

[smoky latch]

Burn your browser

[short verge]

they really just spout nonsense, its all for views

[cerulean smelt]

i'm curious though? 🤔

[coral reef]

No, there are some legit ones! But there are only so many real meta builds.... cant have a channel with like 5 videos

[cerulean smelt]

the best is when they show their OP builds during global modifiers or even overdrives but never mention those 😹

[coral reef]

And expertise 30, and GROUP BUFFS

[short verge]

absolute worst ones!

i recall seeing a video showcasing that deflector drone was meta, but then had like 25+ expertise levels on top of the previous seasonal modifier, it was hilarious, but i guess you gotta take advantage of what's good during each season

[cerulean smelt]

sometimes i watch their videos for ideas and i watch and i facepalm
like is it really that hard to say "this build is good during the season's modifiers and/or Overdrive event"?

[short verge]

speaking of hated content creators, kamikazevondoom gotta be like top 5, somehow stretches nearly every vid past the 15 minute mark for very small game updates

[hazy steeple]

Okay let's not get too personal against the content creators, Agents.

[cerulean smelt]

is he still hurt he wasn't invited to Div 2 event where other cc were invited?

[short verge]

idek, anyways mods are awake, we gotta behave

[woeful zodiac]

Idk ig I'll take rifle as an example

[solar sable]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/10Zu9fKBuzxZ_EDlx_hkm2HN_f_KZltlZu7I8LRyceVE/edit?usp=sharing

[cerulean smelt]

build context really matters to get answers especially in this channel. if you're running say a strikers build but we don't know we can direct you to run 2 shot guns for pummel and brazen and you get mad at us for suggesting it 😹

[woeful zodiac]

I already know what I want using the shotguns so idgaf abt that.
I wanna see a good MMR or Rifle build using the Tinkerer

[short verge]

my little-more-serious rifle build with diamondback, my goal is to push 5m on the amp crit hit, im very close at around 4.8m

would it be better to find a better combination or to just continue optimizing the crit damage and weapon damage stats?

[solar sable]

Was there actually a need for you to be aggressive? Seriously, Toothless was joking.

[woeful zodiac]

Was I agressive?

[hazy steeple]

"idgaf" is not exactly pleasant.

[woeful zodiac]

Sorry 😔

[fading orbit]

what you guys think is the ideal refractor setup for end game group content?

[fickle sparrow]

@coral reef i have exact same build except i run scorpio as main

[smoky latch]

https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/18s3Gr5fZ3DvuA55xeBSyc_2SIusmfMULotivkSfs4xQ/edit
Impetus chest for more skill damage

[bleak kernel]

What's the best dps setup for retaliation?

[ivory abyss]

A lot of things work really, strikers, HB, ND, HF lol pick what fits your style

[coral reef]

This gives 50% extra skill damage. Has anyone gone higher? Those are the basic mods

[ivory abyss]

yes theres a 55%

[coral reef]

show me pls

[mild dawn]

split compress nullify

[ivory abyss]

Saturate offense/Invert Utility/Split Offense

itll be at 5/30/55

[coral reef]

do you know of one for optimal skill repairs?

[coral reef]

i only got up to 40%

[bleak kernel]

Not really, it takes forever to clear and by the time you are done with one another one starts after you do a couple of missions. It's getting really annoying.

[hazy steeple]

@bleak kernel Speed in retalaition comes from a mix of practice+build.
You need to know how it works, and bring a setup that can kill fast enough.

[ivory abyss]

All those setups work for retals very effectively. If you are trying to speed run them that might be a different build or setup entirely

[coral reef]

show us a pic of the build that is not working and get helpful advice here

[willow sigil]

for skill mods, what do you guys keep and what do you trash? there are so many

[ivory abyss]

Plus game knowledge and such. Alot plays into it

[ivory abyss]

Anything thats not max I trash and vice versa.

[willow sigil]

you only keep max?

[coral reef]

just keep/stash whatever is close to perfect stats. You will need them in the long run. No more than 3 of each.

[ivory abyss]

Yep lol it hurts my OCD if I use non max mods with max stat build lol

[normal shadow]

Which is the better option for the Refactor dmg skill hybrid healer: technician with a red pip or survivalist with all yellow? Difficulty level is heroic and upwards.

[bleak kernel]

I have been using tipping scales with overdogs gloves. Bulletking and lexington with ranger.

[uncut yarrow]

I have, and have gotten, a grand total of like 2 or 3 max mods. I dont really run mod focus cuz im usually focusing on another build to get pieces for but yea... max mods I never ever ever see

[solar sable]

You don't take full advantage of TS with Lexington or any AR btw

[ivory abyss]

I have done a lot of countdown or retals with mods as the target because printer filament I want, I just happen to get max mods on the way every now and then

[bleak kernel]

I have a feeling that overdog gloves aren't working

[ivory abyss]

I can assure you they are lol

[bleak kernel]

That's a backup weapon

[solar sable]

They do, you maybe don't know which enemies apply for lowest tier

[uncut yarrow]

Its just health bar color, no? Very simple. Red then purple then yellow

[solar sable]

no

[bleak kernel]

I get up to 1.58 million damage when on full stack. But that takes a while and goes down really fast

[uncut yarrow]

I feel like it'd be a lot simpler to just have it as a health bar color but... maybe that would be too OP? probably. Idk

[smoky latch]

#td2-build-advice message

[coral reef]

everything working as intended

[uncut yarrow]

Interesting

[solar sable]

drop Bullet King, it nerfs your dmg, use Big Al or Iron Lung for dmg purposes and pair it with The Sacrifice, you get higher numbers with that

[uncut yarrow]

Definitely not something im ever gonna pay attention to while playing but good to know I guess, thank you

[coral reef]

Experts: is there a limit, soft cap or whatever for Skill Repair? Is going over 210% skill repair worth it?

[bleak kernel]

Iron lung? It has like 80 mag size. Big Al would have been fine if I didn't run out of ammo for it.

[onyx sage]

but its reload is faster to compensate for it

[uncut yarrow]

As a non-expert, this seems interesting. Try it out.

[coral reef]

with the new seasonal cores thing + prototype gear, you go over that cap easily. Wonder if it's worth it or not.

[onyx sage]

iron lung is a really underrated weapon, give it a try

[uncut yarrow]

I advocate for Iron Lung. Tis very fun and awesome

[onyx sage]

if it's good enough to solo leg with, it's good enough for retal

[bleak kernel]

I don't like its design. It looks bad

[coral reef]

Iron Lung is way better than St. Elmo! Only advantage of Elmo is that you can use it with a shield?

[onyx sage]

i mean we couldn't care less about looks if you want weapons that help you to beat specific content

[junior lagoon]

striker shell? equalizer, ovedogs?

[onyx sage]

yeah, it doesn't have much preference on gear

[coral reef]

funny big dragon c'mon is just badass

[solar sable]

TS makes it 110 plus insanely fast reload

[uncut yarrow]

I guess that would be the main one. I think shock can shock anything? Close to anything? Fire doesnt effect the big flamethrower guys last I saw. Beyond that, Iron Lung very fun

I should make a CC iron lung and a survivability iron lung build

[coral reef]

Iron Lung/Tipping scales is actually my go-to build for Retaliations

[uncut yarrow]

Red cores? Blue cores? Crit? Status?

[bleak kernel]

It's not like I am having trouble with my current gear. It's the speed at which I clear it. I typically am the MVP in most of the missions (non-retal), I might have to get to expertise 30 to churn out the max damage. I am @ 19 right now.

[solar sable]

not worth, for CC Foam is better

[onyx sage]

i mean you asked for feedback, we gave you that feedback. we're just saying it's an easy change to do

expertise is also completely optional for this too

[coral reef]

all red, 60% chc, rest on chd... and NO overdogs gloves, just Exodus gloves because i'm always the center of the attention of enemies cuz i do so much damage, then them gloves help a lot

[solar sable]

imagine using Exodus 🥴

[coral reef]

Exodus is bestodus

[bleak kernel]

Also, style is a priority for me 🤣.

[uncut yarrow]

Yea... idk we'll see. Like if I could mas spread fire and do Hella dmg but I doubt there much in the way of fire actually doing damage. And then beyond that I mean. Yea idk. It'd just be cool lol

[onyx sage]

basically you just want to pay attention to your positioning, and have more damage on your build to clear stuff out faster. there's not much else to worry about

[uncut yarrow]

What does exodus do again?

[junior lagoon]

When using Lexington with measured should i reload once rate of fire drops?

[coral reef]

Hunter cloud of smoke to dissapear when they destroy your armor

[onyx sage]

nah, the bottom half is worth using

[junior lagoon]

Feels so slow but i guess damage worths it?

[uncut yarrow]

Oh those. Do they actually work that well? Like a noticeable amount of time to duck out or roll out or something to heal?

[onyx sage]

yes

[coral reef]

they also heal you while you're in batman mode

[uncut yarrow]

Batman mode lol

[uncut yarrow]

How much healing are we talking?

[solar sable]

god I miss Arkham...

[bleak kernel]

Man, it also blinds everyone. I have gone down many times due to exo gloves being used by someone in the party. It's good for the one who uses it.

[onyx sage]

the bottom half being slower can mess up the recoil tho

ngl @subtle bluff messed me up so much using exodus that i told him to stop using it in groups with me

[buoyant perch]

Phrasing

[onyx sage]

get ur mind out of the gutter sir

[buoyant perch]

T10 broke me

[coral reef]

60% of your armor back? maybe more

[uncut yarrow]

Oh dude Exodus gloves would be kinda lit on my Ravenous build. 4% armor regen and I usually (so far) just need a second or 2 to get it back... holy dude that might be sick. Might have to try it out

[onyx sage]

100% if you weapon swap correctly

#skillcheck

[subtle bluff]

Sir. The only time I can recall playing with you is when you yell at me to get on striker.

[solar sable]

#beholdninjabike

[onyx sage]

sir, can you use striker please?

[willow sigil]

does ts also run equalizer overdogs?

[subtle bluff]

I like big AL on ND a lot.

[onyx sage]

it can, it's one of the better setups

[solar sable]

I use Sacrifice and Overdogs

[coral reef]

it dethroned Bluescreen for ND?

[solar sable]

just to recall, GR9 Frenzy vs Big Aurelio, GR9 still better right?

[subtle bluff]

Nah. The cover thing messes me up.

[onyx sage]

raw power gr9 still better, but big al is a better main weapon

[subtle bluff]

But it's an easy switch or hotswap per section.

Ya GR9 frenzy is still crazy good.

[solar sable]

nerf GR9

[subtle bluff]

Knowledge to know when to use frenzy is kind of important

[onyx sage]

nooooooooo

[uncut yarrow]

Buff ravenous

[short verge]

Buff striker

[uncut yarrow]

(make it stronger cuz I just got it and its pretty freakin dope)

Dude... buff St Elmos. Shpuld disrupt enemies within 10m of the shocked enemy. And then that disrupt should reload your mag with hollow point shock bullets.

[magic pilot]

uhhhh

[short verge]

theo parnell irl????

for our frenzy gr9 enjoyers

[lost wren]

been doing frenzy gr9 for escalation
it's the one thing that makes it bearable lol

[short verge]

i also want to do frenzy gr9, but big alejandro looks at me with mean eyes

[vernal gazelle]

any gearset that dishes out more damage than striker? escalation 6,7 is a pain and enemies dont die fast enough

[onyx sage]

there's only negotiator but you sacrifice single target damage

[lost wren]

it's striker or nothing really, nego works too but striker is still top tier

[onyx sage]

striker is just the best rn for single target

[vernal gazelle]

its bleak

[lost wren]

escalation is just balanced terribly

[flint arch]

escalation feels worse to play than leggo

[vernal gazelle]

im doing striker, equalizer, overdogs with big alejandro

but these mfers are sponges....

[onyx sage]

striker chest makes sense in here

[lost wren]

because it is
enemeies are tankier but have worse AI behavior because it's still heroic, means they're much more passive and don't do shit

[flint arch]

not just sponges, they're scared sponges

[vernal gazelle]

not really

[flint arch]

have fun trying to shoot anyone when they refuse to get the hell out of cover

[vernal gazelle]

i tested it im not doing much more dps

[onyx sage]

i mean it makes more sense in esca more than most content

it won't be a big increase, like around 10%

[coral reef]

it totally does, tons of enemies that are bullet sponges?

[sullen night]

Are Overdogs general loot pool or is there some master mission/retal for it?

[lost wren]

genuinely thinking about using it

[onyx sage]

general pool

[lost wren]

even at tier 3-4 it still feels miserable

[vernal gazelle]

the tier 5 modifier is horrible

[buoyant perch]

After T10, you will view T5 as a walk in the park

[vernal gazelle]

yo you wanna play your cover based shooter? No cant stay still for more than 10 seconds

[onyx sage]

AD spam simulator

[lost wren]

i can only imagine why

[coral reef]

I did tier 8 and never wanna go back there

Felt like the legendary Amherst apartment grind for the House all over again

[buoyant perch]

I have my mates to suffer with me so we will go back

[flint arch]

we're going back to division 1 levels of sponginess with this update 🔥 🔥 🔥 🗣️ 🗣️ 🗣️ 🗣️

[lost wren]

frenzy gr9 and decoy are the only saving graces for this lol

[vernal gazelle]

why didnt they add like more difficult gameplay instead of just spongify the enemies

[flint arch]

because they spent all the budget on prototype gear i guess

[vernal gazelle]

well i atleast hope they hear the feedback

[coral reef]

They will, im sure of it.

[vernal gazelle]

"we are adding 10 more prototype ranks mid season"

[bleak kernel]

Buff backfire smg's accuracy

[ivory abyss]

the fact i saw toasty clear a t10 solo and get 0 prototypes is crazy

[flint arch]

congratulations on clearing t10. here's absolutely nothing for your troubles

[vernal gazelle]

do you think you should have a higher chance of getting prototype drops the higher rank you play?

[flint arch]

it already is like that, but the odds are still absolute shit

just no longer "literal casino odds" from the PTS

[vernal gazelle]

but 0 x 5 = 0

[lost wren]

i've so far only gotten one good proto worth keeping, and it's IA gloves

[verbal gust]

What is everyone making prototype first? Build wise.

[vernal gazelle]

how would i make any build when i dont even get drops bro

[lost wren]

with what drops lool

[coral reef]

I prototyped a full future initiative bulld for healing in escalation groups

[verbal gust]

I have 15 cores I have a full strikers prototyped.

[coral reef]

Yeah i figured everyone was going that route so I went healing/team buffs

[verbal gust]

Well if your struggling, sorry bro gg

[vernal gazelle]

maybe they should remove the option to max out already existing pieces

[verbal gust]

Try 6 that’s my sweet spot get one like every time.

[vernal gazelle]

then everyone plays the same game 😄

[nimble yew]

Trying to optimize this build a little more. all armor pieces have max weapon damage and CHC and CHD along with the st elmo is max rolled currently i do between 300k to 800k damage with CHD any advise to get this to a mil +

[flint arch]

5pc Striker? that 1 extra piece does nothing

[nimble yew]

Trying to get overdog gloves

[verbal gust]

Stat sheet view? 60 chc and 150 chd minimum should get you through most content also try like a ceska chest and swap out knees for grupo

[flint arch]

use a ceska piece first then

[vernal gazelle]

no point in running shield

[flint arch]

you're just nerfing yourself with the additional Striker piece since gear sets do nothing beyond 4pcs and have 1 less attribute

run something like ceska gloves

[verbal gust]

Striker chest inter change between harder content. I have 2 chests 1 for esc and Lego then I use a ceska piece for heroics and stuff

But you ideally want 4pc strikers and 1 ceska and 1 grupo for Crit Ceska chest with obliterate would be perfect

[nimble yew]

Thank you!

[flint arch]

equalizer chest is BiS for standard striker tho

[verbal gust]

You can use that too if you find yourself with more chc or you can stick with it and swap an attribute. Handling or headshot season modifiers are good for that this season w Crit dmg

I found a equalizer proto w chd and weapon handling today

[violet saddle]

@silent storm im using picaros holster, not as much crit damage or chance though

[verbal gust]

Yeah if your running Pesti go for it but if you need more Crit it’s a must plus total weapon damage is additive afaik so that 4 percent is negligible if. Or at 60chc I have 170+ chd and 60 chc you do more damage with crit than twd. Plus new players aren’t going to crap out 6%chc maxed mods right out the gate.

[lost wren]

after hours of gameplay this is the one proto item that i can actually use

[flint arch]

crit has diminishing returns

and i have no maxed crit mods at all, you don't need those

[verbal gust]

Unless you have a crap ton of opt Mats. Which new players who just reached 40 don’t have. The minimum….minimum to do endgame content is 60chc and 150 chd people in raids for instance will kick you without

[flint arch]

your damage is multiplied by TWD after your CHD, so the extra TWD in this case is more valuable than a bunch of CHD

[verbal gust]

You need 150 chd minimum. If you don’t gave 60 chc you shouldn’t be end game at all ceska is chc though not chd buddy grupo replaces one of the 5th striker pieces.

[onyx sage]

i mean it's not a strict requirement

crit is just one multiplier in the overall dps calculation

[verbal gust]

This.

[runic thicket]

Going to start grinding countdown challenging for gloves to try getting overdogs

[verbal gust]

Speaking about new players that have just reached 40

[flint arch]

i guess im not allowed to be in the endgame then

[onyx sage]

even then

[verbal gust]

True. I yield back.

[onyx sage]

a build with overdogs and equalizer will have a lot less crit compared to coyote ceska for example, yet it is noticeably better

ofc you still want some crit, can't go with no crit, but it's not that much

[verbal gust]

Your chd is eh and your chc needs a bit more love bro

[verbal gust]

150 chd is minimum dude for legendary content

Bare bones minimum

[onyx sage]

dude... my solo zoo wr run has 142% chd

[subtle bluff]

There a min to CHD?

[flint arch]

pretty sure its kinda impossible you know

[onyx sage]

there are other things than just crit to worry about

[stuck zodiac]

Nah we just glass cannon it and pray

[sinful tinsel]

does pgcoverdogs striker count

[onyx sage]

if chd is king then we'd all run beacon over say pgc

[flint arch]

i dunno i'm doing pretty well in leggo with this build

[ivory abyss]

at need 150CHD minimum lol wtf did i just read

[subtle bluff]

I’d math out how wild saying that is…. But I’m lazy.

[ivory abyss]

LOL

I have used builds with like 80-100 and do just fine

[verbal gust]

Whatever you just typed

[verbal gust]

Well whatever works for you bro ggs

[ivory abyss]

I dont think at minimum you need 150 chd for anything and I have never been kicked out of any group lol

You want damages from diff sources and you def want amp damage

[flint arch]

remember, you're in a channel called #td2-build-advice. if you give bad advice (and this minimum 150 chd thing is definitely one), expect to be called out for it

[onyx sage]

i guess what i wanted to say is something like overdogs with 30% amp will make your crit go down compared to say grupo. but it is the net better option to take

[subtle bluff]

Saying there’s a min DPS sure but to A stats is wild.

[onyx sage]

with overdogs, having like 120% chd or less is normal

[flint arch]

i did show PGC Striker with Overdogs

[onyx sage]

the benchmark should be something closer to overall dps calc, not just surface level stat floors

[ivory abyss]

I feel like if you say something like 150chd minimum is needed for legendary that it would equate to almost impossible to clear without which it is not lol

[subtle bluff]

If someone was at 50 CHC and 100 CHD but still output the same DPS as the person with 50/150 does it matter?

[onyx sage]

I'm not taking a slight to anyone on this, just wanted to be informative

[verbal gust]

Appreciate it brother the amount of sensitivity is wild

[ivory abyss]

If someone looks at chd and says yeah yours is too low and kicks you and doesnt look at anything else to consider then they are not informed with how the game and damage works lol thats just my opinion

[verbal gust]

This was unnecessary.

[subtle bluff]

It’s just a wild statement to me. Why I change to help to show why the end number you’re looking for.

[verbal gust]

So take my 150 and Make it whatever you want. I was asked for help on some gear I gave my opinion and stated maybe a chase requirement. Doesn’t require a shakedown bro. Honestly was just saying 150 ain’t hard to get too.

[ivory abyss]

Its not hard to get just like its NOT a requirement to clear any content in a timely manner lol

[verbal gust]

I get it bro just didn’t mean to offend people. Sorry.

[flint arch]

i'd advise that if its an opinion, you say "in my opinion you need 150% chd", and not say "you need 150% chd or else" like it's a fact

[subtle bluff]

You’re not offending anyone just understanding now dmg works in the game.
50 CHD isn’t better than 20 AMP dmg

Now that a look at context a lil. This is even more for Pesti. The value of numbers are important

[verbal gust]

Yes dad

“Ok the minimum chd you should have is 200”….wait wait for it. Everyone attack me rawr! lol

[next dawn]

tbh I dragged a clanmate shd 15 through leggo DUA and lets just say they had blast

[sullen night]

I'm currently running a cookie cutter 4x Striker with Equalizer Chest and Salvo Holster, paired with a boring Elmo. Would using the Tinkerer and a high end AR with 2 talents out-DPS the Elmo, or is ditching Salvo too much of a DPS loss?

[buoyant mulch]

trying out that one build that was recommended to me with core strength, will report back

[next dawn]

hmm looks intriguing gl

[buoyant mulch]

apparently its a very strong hybrid build so i'll try it out

[dapper glacier]

Call the ambulance! but not for me! 😛 is this ok?

[next dawn]

looks pretty good hybrid build are on the rise again

[flint arch]

I suggest using Scorpio shotgun instead but outside of that it's good

[buoyant mulch]

i liked running striker but found the limitations of everything else to be something i didn't enjoy all too much, i appreciate being able to do more things

[solar sable]

Use Scorpio, you apply two buffs when using it
Opp and 9th shot

also, for Support Scorpio with Mag Size is BiS IMO

[dapper glacier]

and for a primary?

[solar sable]

Scorpio is your primary

[flint arch]

lefty as secondary

[solar sable]

I also see you're already using Survivalist, more team buffs

[buoyant mulch]

what should i replace this with?

[solar sable]

RoF

[next dawn]

Rate of fire or Dmg out of cover up to what you perfer

[buoyant mulch]

i settled for rate of fire

[willow sigil]

I have this put together, but i don't know what lmg i am supposed to be using

[next dawn]

any lmg will work, personally I use the Alejandro or the GR9

[buoyant mulch]

a short dps test its not that bad at all really

[willow sigil]

my alejandro says the special event exotics for items reqiuired, is that refering to al?

the rest of my recon bps give the exact name of the weapon

[next dawn]

??

[willow sigil]

nvm i figured it out

[sinful tinsel]

i use big alejandro or bullet king

[willow sigil]

i went with big al. i have bullet king but i am broke now to recon it

everything is so expensive

[next dawn]

Well yeah you're meant to grind

[bold forum]

does turmoil hit spread would actually work with pesti ? has anyone tried that ?

[hearty mesa]

whats everyone's opinion on how tipping scales stacks up aginst stiker sets?

[solar sable]

a comparison? Both TS and CoCo compete with Strikers

[solar sable]

it doesn't, pesti Ticks are pure Weapon DMG

[hearty mesa]

just try to see whats out there for builds

[next dawn]

Lots of builds out there striker is just meta unfortunately

[subtle bluff]

Turmoil is doing the spread not the weapon.

[broken delta]

im trying really hard to do something other than stacks on top of stacks

[subtle bluff]

What does that mean?

[broken delta]

but nothing comes close to the striker / stiping sclaes

[broken delta]

something that doesnt require you shoot 200 bullets to stack something to do damage

[next dawn]

Want a gear set that doesn't need to actively build stacks

Which tbh is valid

[subtle bluff]

Strike, TS and CoCo are all somewhat what comparable at Peak DPS how to get there is a different and stay there is a different story.

[subtle bluff]

First off 200 stacks? No one should use a striker chest unless they know they can prestack.

[subtle bluff]

OD would the one.

[next dawn]

Mhm I was thinking about something other than OD

Ah refractor

[broken delta]

yeah i know how to play the build, but it gets boring really fast

shoot thing, delete thing go on maintain stack this and that

[subtle bluff]

Uh..

[next dawn]

Lol

[willow sigil]

tipping scales is kind of hard to use. i dont know how to counter the supression mechanic, it slows down my loop

[broken delta]

if you are suppresing thing, stacks dont go away

[subtle bluff]

Anyone saying 200 stacks is already doing it wrong.

[willow sigil]

what good are stacks if they are also hiding behind cover and not popping out

[subtle bluff]

Push, reposition.

[broken delta]

yah man sarcasm do you know?

[next dawn]

Throw a nade

[subtle bluff]

Are we being sarcastic?

[broken delta]

😩

[next dawn]

It kinda hard to be sarcastic with text

[subtle bluff]

Unless you add something else to it. that.

[broken delta]

sorry mb

[next dawn]

But I like building 200 stacks on striker

[subtle bluff]

Sir...

[next dawn]

Hush

[delicate hill]

is there a build tool thats up to date? the mxswat one seems to missing stuff from this season and last atleast

[bold forum]

@subtle bluffi mean more, does turmoil hit spread would make pesti proc on 2 enemy since pesti proc is on hit

[broken delta]

at first i kinda liked, when you see all those numbers poping on the screen pretty nice, but it gets boring fast, at least for me

[subtle bluff]

Again.... Turmoil itself the Gear is spreading the dmg not the weapon.

When pesti hit a target IT makes a stack.

[willow sigil]

yeah nades are really good, thanks.

[grizzled loom]

Build? Also what diff

[subtle bluff]

Not really build to say it's a meme of understanding how to stack dmg

[next dawn]

Ofc give them the delimma of sitting there and blowing up or get out of cover and getting shredded by an lmg

[subtle bluff]

Clear your localDB

It's database is updated but the tool itself isn't updated.

[willow sigil]

i do enjoy being able to kill the juggs in one mag

[next dawn]

Which one does more sustain damag equalizer or striker 200 stack

[delicate hill]

not to sound like a total idiot but i guess i am... how do i do that? xD

[subtle bluff]

It's VERY hard to beat striker with chest when fully stacked and able to maintain it.

If you're not above 130-140 stacks obli wins.

[subtle bluff]

Support or issues (something like that) button.

[next dawn]

Ty I'll continue using striker chest 🙂

[delicate hill]

Got it thank you good sir/maam

another question. does the 2 piece skill tier from Brazos/picaros work with core strength properly for the extra armor and damage buffs?

[willow sigil]

i just got a few gr9s, what do i want on it?

[next dawn]

Talent I grab measured or frenzy. The third talent crit hit damage or crit chance depends if you can max out your crit chance with mods

[willow sigil]

oh both those talents are really good

[subtle bluff]

No. There are somee where that mentioned only from the gear.

[willow sigil]

i think i go measured, i have a tendency of not letting mag go to 0 for whatever reason

[next dawn]

Why not just run tinkerer mask and have both

[delicate hill]

alrighty there goes my master plan lol

[willow sigil]

thats a thing?

what would my secondary weapon be?

[next dawn]

An lmg

[willow sigil]

do i just use 2 gr9s?

[flint arch]

no need, the 2nd lmg can be anything else that isn't named or exotic

[next dawn]

You can yes

[subtle bluff]

MG5 my love.

[willow sigil]

ill give that a shot, all i do is swap overdogs for ts gloves right?

[next dawn]

Swap overdogs for tinkerer mask

Last is to save the build and name it German 🙂 trust

[willow sigil]

nvm i wont be able to do this for a while. i cant optimize anything

[next dawn]

Time to grind

[willow sigil]

it used to be tactical assessments that was my filter, now its shd calibrations

[next dawn]

Lol

[willow sigil]

all the mats come so slow, this game is what id imagine a gatcha game would be if gatcha games were free

[next dawn]

Lol

[flint arch]

aren't gacha games already "free"

[willow sigil]

"free"

[flint arch]

also i don't get any anime girls to stare at in this game. 0/10, go play a different chinese gacha game

[lone glacier]

Just overlay anime girl over your agent, problem solved

[next dawn]

We have the anime cat ear cap from a few season ago

[willow sigil]

yeah i think ts is my new favorite. being able to kill all of them as they are walking out of spawn does it for me

[lone glacier]

Uh @broken edge

[grizzled garnet]

so hotshot determined builds. what damage is acceptable to call the build complete/good

[next dawn]

Enough to one shot elites and some named enemies at full stacks of HH

[grizzled garnet]

and what is that 'enough' number?

[next dawn]

Imo 20+ million is more than enough

[grizzled garnet]

intriguing

ik shooting range isnt the most trustworthy of sources but imma quickly check in there

ok in shooting range im hitting 34m

[next dawn]

That more then enough for most content in the game

[grizzled garnet]

🙏 i just need to opti the knees

[solar berry]

wtf

[subtle bluff]

wait is his library pretty maxed out too?

[uncut yarrow]

LF tank

[subtle bluff]

it's only 3pc of aegis

[solar berry]

tdk

[subtle bluff]

at max should be around 23 mill

[grizzled garnet]

white death max hh stacks im hitting for 34m

[subtle bluff]

sounds right

[subtle bluff]

I meant that what you want to be able to do.

[grizzled garnet]

one more Q. which do you recommend more. shroud or nemesis

[subtle bluff]

It's on the player.

Play with both.

[grizzled garnet]

i feel like shroud can do more but at the same time remembering tiering of enemies is tedious

also im running overdogs so i need the stars to align for both shroud and overdogs to be working

[subtle bluff]

It can when overdog and it lines up

[grizzled garnet]

ye

[subtle bluff]

Ya I can't say either are better imo.
Shroud handles well.

Nem just does good dmg always but requires charge

[grizzled garnet]

one gripe i have with headshot builds is helmeted enemies. i feel like beyond X damage in a single damage instance the helmet is ignored

[subtle bluff]

Just need to line up your shots to break it and then kill the next one to start up again

[grizzled garnet]

tinkerer rework to work with exotics when? :3

[subtle bluff]

To powerful

[grizzled garnet]

anyway back to retal

[ancient kiln]

looking for testers for my gear maker/dps calculator if interested DM me and i will give you a 1.7.4 alpha build it is free and OS with a github if you wish build it yourself it will never cost a dime.

[subtle bluff]

I'll DM you later. I just have to undo setting to do so

[olive cosmos]

i cant tell what i should be putting on this build. i have a mix of CHD and CHC i dont know if im suppose to stack 1 attrubite or not

[uncut yarrow]

Probably max Chance then Dmg

If you ran like Chameleon for example, you'd only have to go to 40%

[olive cosmos]

ahh ok i didnt know it depends on the weapon youre using

[ancient kiln]

i DMed you

[subtle bluff]

It's should be the standard CHC/CHD

[uncut yarrow]

Well its Chameleons trait. With like 30 headshots it increases CHC by 20%. So if you started at 60%, then used that weapon and perk, then you'd just be wasting 20%. 60% is highest, keep that in mind. I would say focus more crit chance but if you have like 5% damage then yknow, add a little bit

[hexed steppe]

run boomerang on that m1a to take advantage of the crit. determined is a complete waste in this setup

[subtle bluff]

But then also the body proc does A lot more DMG vs the HS proc

[broken garnet]

I've been hearing mixed things about the core strength gearset and im thinking about grinding it out but is it a hit or miss? Would something like overdogs, memento, or even ninjabike go good with it?

[subtle bluff]

CS isn't amazing or special towards the game it's fun I guess. PvP it's good.

[misty fjord]

what build would work for escalation?

i try the od tinker for retal and is eh alright

[subtle bluff]

Big DPS with side of Sustain DPS.

Mostly striker

[silent storm]

I have been running FI and TS in escalation and it has been working out great

[subtle bluff]

T7?

[silent storm]

All the way up

[civic meteor]

with the chatterbox, hunter's fury or striker's?

[smoky latch]

Both work nicely

But that SMG is only as good as you can keep its stacks up

[subtle bluff]

out of those 3 only striker for again the context is escalation.

HF and Chatterbox would be both really bad for it.

[smoky latch]

I just read his questions above, not the one above that :p

[subtle bluff]

I know you're good.

[uncut yarrow]

Just get both

Unless you only get one at a time and then I have been lied to

[subtle bluff]

Read the talent again. I can't SS stuff atm.

[uncut yarrow]

I thought they were separate buffs

When I get home I'll have to give it a look

[ivory abyss]

Up above you said cham gives 20% chc for headshots which is true I believe but it also gives crit damage dont it like 50%

So even at 60% you could still activate the buff and you can have all 3 buffs active at once

[olive cosmos]

what are nego builds used for?

[quiet plinth]

Would a core strength set be sacrificing too much weapon damage from other potential sets to justify the bonus armor and skill efficiency for pestilence? I can think of multiple variations in terms of exotic armor and the remaining slot(s) but it wont matter if core strength just isnt justified

[ivory abyss]

I think as of right now core str just aint it lol for most things

[lone glacier]

Core Strength is more of a PvP set. If you care about damage just go Striker or TS

[onyx sage]

dps, it's one of the best

[quiet plinth]

im not a fan of tipping scales, and i want to have more builds than x flavor of striker
not only that, but tipping scales is mostly crit damage which doesnt affect pestilence's dot, nor does strikers amp
so neither are really applicable here anyway

[lone glacier]

CoCO then maybe?

[shy willow]

If you want pesti just use lengmo or coco

[subtle bluff]

Pesti build? Use the pesti guide..

[quiet plinth]

i have coco, but its a pain in the ass to use solo without prestacking and if im running stuff in a group its gonna be content where going all red gets me destroyed anyway
im keeping an eye out for lengmo pieces but thatll take a while for that whole set

[ivory abyss]

The only thing with lengmo is... you need RNG blessed right? as opposed to coco

Because youd want trip reds right or maybe I am thinking of something else

[quiet plinth]

like ive read the entire pestilence guide already

[quiet plinth]

yeah lengmo is blue core so you need crit for all attributes

[ivory abyss]

Had a feeling

[subtle bluff]

Then what's your question? Those are the best builds that work with Pesti

[ivory abyss]

I have a question about pesti actually, is that set actually really good speaking for pve?

[lone glacier]

CoCO?

[ivory abyss]

Like whatever best pesti set up is, is it worth using over other things?

[onyx sage]

coco pesti is pretty competitive with striker, but requires group

[ivory abyss]

I might try farming some lengmo pieces just because itll give me a goal to hit

[subtle bluff]

If you understand how it works it's not bad at all.
You can also use turret and drone to help make stacks.

[shy willow]

They have blueprints

[onyx sage]

lengmo pesti is the best solo set, but it's worse than coco, and... you already know how bad farming for it is

[quiet plinth]

i took coco pestilence into the weekly legendary stronghold with a matchmade group after getting practice in solo legendary district arena getting to the pool lounge solo (prestacked stacks), but the moment i was in a group doing it i was getting absolutely destroyed
never really got the chance to actually land the hits needed to get pestilence rolling in an engagement there

[onyx sage]

yeah it's just how it is, you need time to stack in groups

it's just the limitation of that setup

[quiet plinth]

before i was pushed to OSP and was gated from shooting, otherwise id just die
due to no skill tiers, decoy wasnt much help at all

[subtle bluff]

It's coco weakness is how it stacks.

[onyx sage]

practically striker is the best set for it, if you ignore the dot since the dot is a small increase anyways. the dot really shouldn't be hyperinvested on

[shy willow]

The good news is the stacks decay very slowly

[quiet plinth]

i was able to get it stacked up decently high and maintain it (outside of that one part where you enter rear of the ship in tidal basin, there is NO cover there you can use so it was attrition)
because of how slowly it decayed

[ivory abyss]

If you do the lengmo setup you need lengmo chest? lol that is prob one of the pieces I dread farming since you need chc chd and talent lol

[shy willow]

Nah I use sacrifice

[quiet plinth]

but the problem was just
you need to actually land sustained hits to get pestilences dot going

[ivory abyss]

Okay cool lol that will be tolerable then

[broken garnet]

I figured, saw a few core strengths in heroic and even legendary content last night going nuts, some of them carrying the whole team so didn't know how good it was

[subtle bluff]

Solo Legendary DUA (with pre-stacked CoCo)
https://youtu.be/oKEGdGX5v7w?si=sBSWlmod9Cks33uZ

[quiet plinth]

i couldnt shoot for more than half a second before being pushed to one shot protection
and forget the final room, something always has an angle on you so even surviving is a tall order, let alone getting to shoot
i had to swap off there

[olive cosmos]

there is a bunch of them which one is the most poplular to use

[onyx sage]

striker

[ivory abyss]

They might just be good players lol I have yet to see a super good core str build that doesnt get outclassed by current sets we have already. BUT I am open to seeing anything made with core str that isnt pvp related

[quiet plinth]

yes ive seen this
while im decently slower because my stuff isnt fully optimized, i made it roughly as far as the halfway mark here

[olive cosmos]

wym striker

[quiet plinth]

before i messed up and died on my furthest run
that was BEFORE i took it into my first group run
which is when nothing went right

[subtle bluff]

the rest is just knowledg and gameplay

[broken garnet]

That is true, I've seen some players make ANYTHING WORK, I'll just stick with my striker and heartbreaker builds 😭✌🏻

[shy willow]

It's a set

[olive cosmos]

yes i know its a set but im asking what is the best nego build because i see a bunch of them on the doc.

i think he forgot what i was even talking about

[shy willow]

The way you phrased it implied you were asking for the most popular DPS set

[plush cloak]

I got a carbine 7 with strained but no DTTOOC. Is killer or DTTOOC the better recalibration?

[shy willow]

In terms of just nego it's up to preference and use case

[olive cosmos]

i did say nego but ok

[lone glacier]

Tinkerer, Overdogs or Coyote are probably your best bet.

[civic meteor]

why I'm trying to find something thats good in solo play but also good in escalation

[subtle bluff]

either or should work at that rate.

[smoky latch]

For the higher tiers you will need ARs and preferably LMGs. The enemies get incredibly tanky and there are modifiers in place that prevent you from getting too close to them

[plush cloak]

Which is more beneficial?

[hexed steppe]

go overdogs glass, or overdogs equalizer nego

[civic meteor]

so like a police m4

[smoky latch]

Yeah but also an LMG as secondary/primary

[smoky latch]

Let me show you sth rq

[lone glacier]

High Tier Escalation seem to be LMG Tinkerer Striker with Striker Chest kinda thing..

[ivory abyss]

So with this basically you are shooting into a pile of enemies I would imagine marking all you can and then when you kill one, magic happens? Because this looks like an interesting set to get me off strikers lol

Also whats the ability next to the hive, smart cover?

[hexed steppe]

as long as you can manage marks, which is really simple, you can make nego shine... and yes, if you chase spawns its easy mode

emp sticky

[smoky latch]

1. GWH Broken
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gADizMsOio

2. PEC Toastey
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQrz9iked1Q

Just to get an idea of it

[hexed steppe]

i use it for proccing bluescreen on repeat or actual use on a warhound

[ivory abyss]

Oh okay cool. So manage marks meaning what exactly? Ive never used ND. Bluescreen I know you mark targets and then kill one and they all get hit with the effect

Is ND different for marking targets? do you need to do things in a certain order

[subtle bluff]

Hard to say.
Killer you'll see a bigger jump number
But the DTTooC will inceasure it's DPS overall.

[hexed steppe]

so nego, the strength is transfering crits to each mark. when a marked npc dies you ned to mark another or you arent maximizing damage

[ivory abyss]

Okay so always marking fresh targets as ones die

[lone glacier]

Toastey's setup with Hollow Man and Ceska Gloves for solo PEC is kinda

[ivory abyss]

I am going to try that build out, it looks like it will be some fun

[hexed steppe]

yeah, ill shift targets a lot always making sure a high prio or 2 is marked

[grizzled loom]

Overdogs or coyote mask for big Alejandro with tipping scales

[hexed steppe]

then pick off the low prio so the overdogs is procced and everything is taking amped damage

[subtle bluff]

Same as normal

[hexed steppe]

always overdogs, im surprised this is a question

[ivory abyss]

Perfect thank you. I will make it and give it a run.

[lost wren]

if you plan to run striker chest for escalation, what are the other pieces you should run

[subtle bluff]

ceska, overdogs, salvo

[civic meteor]

Jesus

[lone glacier]

Tinkerer with 2x LMGs could also work I suppose. Thats what Toastey ran in some of the duo runs he did iirc.

[smoky latch]

OD Tinkerer 2x LMG is nice

[lone glacier]

Think they ran Striker Tinkerer with Chest even

[smoky latch]

Possibly specialized builds for high tier content

[civic meteor]

y'know @smoky latch I was thinking I could switch out the chatterbox for my oxpecker do you think its good or could I find better

[smoky latch]

"We already talked about this"

[obsidian lava]

Nice. Is it a nice sniper?

[cinder tinsel]

does anyone know what the absolute highest first shot damage an 1886 does? my current build is:
1886 w/ dttooc
tinkerer w/ behind you talent
zoo backback w/ vigilance
zoo chest w/ headhunter
breaking point gloves and holster
fox's prayers
all rolled w/ headshot damage and weapon handling w/ headshot damage mods.
i would like to have enough damage to one shot headshot a veteran/purple w/o headhunter stacks on heroic. also, my proficiency on my 1886 is only at level 6

[subtle bluff]

Overdogs

[uncut yarrow]

well yea but I'd rather build into more damage so that when i activate that specific buff, i get the full benefit of it. i get your point but i could just hav emore crit dmg

[subtle bluff]

TBH I think I did the math awhile ago but drop foxes and 3pc Breakpoint does more cold shot dmg but does less in the end.
Had to drop foxes and zoo for chained and gift but it did lil more.

[ivory abyss]

thats fair, but chameleon is a beast make no mistake lol I didnt know this myself until recently and then using it

[subtle bluff]

Chameleon is overrate but also not understood on how to use it well.

[smoky latch]

Interesting. I'll try that some time

[silent storm]

This is probably worth a keep right? CMMG is the good one right?

[smoky latch]

Scrap

[subtle bluff]

I wish CMMG wasn't nerfed...

[silent storm]

Oh it got nerfed?

[subtle bluff]

Ya CMMG was nerfed in TU22

[lost wren]

i'll try salvo ovd

[lost wren]

i remember getting a proto cmmg today, too bad it's shit

[silent storm]

How was it nerfed? I don't use many SMG other than Chatterbox and Dark Winter

[uncut yarrow]

yea i just find it boring. dont know why. i still use it for my Foundry Tank build, i will always use it for that build i think. but for general purpose it just feels bland to use. Lowkey, Elmos feels bland do use too. i have it on like one build and i dont run that build at all. i would much rather use Iron Lung, Pestilence, Bluescreen, and now my newly acquired Ravenous which is super fun

[uncut yarrow]

how does one use it well outside of, spraying different body parts as evenly distributed as you can for max uptime, and then build more into Crit Dmg?

[subtle bluff]

The unweavering CMMG was soooo good

[subtle bluff]

It got it rough both it and MP7. MP7 wasn't anything special.

MP7 was uncalled for since it's fixed to 40rds

[silent storm]

I do remember using MP7 way back and it being good

So what is the king SMG now then?

[subtle bluff]

SMG9 and Vectors

[smoky latch]

Depends. Vector and SMG9 are pretty good overall

Converted SMG9*

[silent storm]

The Dark Winter with more rounds

[subtle bluff]

Yes but the base WD of Tac Vector 9mm is more and that does more overall but yes less rds

but also the reload speed of tac is rather good

[silent storm]

Chatterbox is still great for the way I play SMG so it's hard to not use it when I want to SMG

[subtle bluff]

The reload speed were update again in tu23

[grizzled garnet]

so for coco pesti is equalizer any worse than sacrifice?

[silent storm]

6%

Well I'm gonna keep the CMMG as it's Lv30 and has a slight boost to DMG and CHC

[magic pilot]

dont forget some of these charts they released werent completely accurate

[subtle bluff]

Yea but close enough

[civic meteor]

I have a memory problem

me thinks

[silent storm]

Is there a Short Underbarrel Rail attachment for CHD?

[grizzled garnet]

but does that 6% make or break the build 🤔

[silent storm]

No

[grizzled garnet]

okok ty

[silent storm]

What breaks the CoCo build over the Lengmo build is the time to full stacks

[grizzled garnet]

;-;

[silent storm]

With CoCo you have a higher ceiling but a slower stack time

[grizzled garnet]

ah okok

[subtle bluff]

Not too much.

[silent storm]

Brutal if solo

[tulip charm]

Farming good Lengmo is kinda annoying tho

[silent storm]

Worth it though once you are done

[subtle bluff]

once past let says 35 WD with coco it should pass up lengmo

[plush thistle]

any way to improve this?

[lost wren]

unwavering is so peak

[subtle bluff]

Sadist weapon, Ceska BP

[grizzled garnet]

tinkerers mask

[subtle bluff]

it was a real laser beam then.

[silent storm]

CHD seems really low

Oh you are missing mods

[plush thistle]

i am missing watch chd its not doneand i have 1 chd mod missing but still it be below 90

[grizzled garnet]

also that yellow subcore on your backpack

[silent storm]

Missing 2 mods in the pic

[plush thistle]

oh u right it didnt save one ill have to fix that now but for sadist weapon do i want like an acs shotgun or something else?

[grizzled garnet]

lmg's

[plush thistle]

which one would you recommend? i got a whole stash of lmg's

[subtle bluff]

Should just link him the guide. I'm too lazy atm

[grizzled garnet]

iirc OD gives a full mag worth of bleed rounds. higher the mag the more bullets you get

[clever merlin]

st elmo with 141 rounds lol

[grizzled garnet]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/10Zu9fKBuzxZ_EDlx_hkm2HN_f_KZltlZu7I8LRyceVE/edit?tab=t.0

[grizzled garnet]

2 cr9's with tinkerers (if you plan on using it)

[ivory abyss]

What combo did you use for this? most I get is 102

[clever merlin]

3 ua + the mag size modifier

[ivory abyss]

Oh okay so brand set help

[plush thistle]

reading this guide 1st question comes to mind does fire not count as a status effect for od to trigger?

[grizzled garnet]

now do an lmg with the gunner pouch

[grizzled garnet]

it does

[subtle bluff]

Yes it takes longer to do in a sense.

[plush thistle]

then does sadist just do more in general or is it easier to get the proc with it or whats the reason for sadist? is it like a backup in case you don't use iron lung?

[grizzled garnet]

bleed (self perpetuating), disorient, shocked, on fire, foamed

[subtle bluff]

When you can just CC and burn them down instead

[plush thistle]

ah ok

[grizzled garnet]

banshee pulse or riot foam are pretty easy ways to get the cycle going

[subtle bluff]

even stick nade

[grizzled garnet]

i wonder does pulse count 🤔

@plush thistle also keep in mind its really nice in groups (countdown) since everyone gets ammo

so infinite ammo ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[hazy steeple]

you get that away from me. I already ran it for 2 entire seasons.
I've detox'd, I can't be pulled back in.

[lost wren]

can you not recalibrate prototype gear?

[grizzled garnet]

no

[lost wren]

bro
are you actually kidding me

[grizzled garnet]

nop

cant even optimize

[silent storm]

Well it's not really as good as Striker or TS so you don't need to run it

[hazy steeple]

Good lord.

[lost wren]

this whole time i thought i can keep these IA gloves because it had hsd and skill haste, but no

[hazy steeple]

I mean that is the perfect impression of a person who no one can stand.

Hats off to you.

[clever merlin]

bluescreen with 372 ammo lol

[lost wren]

i actually have no good prototype stuff it's all shit lol

[subtle bluff]

ever since TU22 I've been saying OD. So a longer than that.

[plush thistle]

main reason i wanted this build was for the ammo modifier xp to help boost my watch to help me perform better so i can complete certain missions as is i believe my skills are only average so it makes master/raids difficult for me

[hazy steeple]

I took a while to get on the Tink+OD train.
I needed time to pull away from my old addiction.

[grizzled garnet]

try gr9 with the +50 bag mod. base 200

[quiet plinth]

at least you have some xd

[subtle bluff]

I get it

[quiet plinth]

0 drops for me whatsoever so far

[flint arch]

relapse

[lost wren]

dismantled it all because it's crap
but i'm also not expertise 30 so i can't use the cores to upgrade my current stuff

this update is actually just the worst for me lol

[grizzled garnet]

time to jump on the grind then

[quiet plinth]

yup
im only expertise 12, 3 of those being within the last few days from just grinding countdown

but i ran a fair amount of escalation to see if i could at least get a drop to see what id get
but nope, nothing

[lost wren]

what were they thinking with this

[quiet plinth]

think?

[grizzled garnet]

higher level of endgame content

[subtle bluff]

I love that we just bypass the mag post.

mostly...

[plush thistle]

are your 2 lmgs the infantry mg5 and m249 B? killer and sadist?

[silent storm]

What mag post?

[subtle bluff]

Don't worry about it

[quiet plinth]

i am complaining which is a sacred time and i cannot be distracted from it
nothing can sway me
i am an immovable object

[clever merlin]

is quiet roar a gr9 equivalent?

[silent storm]

Quiet Roar is garbage

[plush thistle]

no its a stoner so fire rate is a lot slower so no dont use that

i dont have a single clue what that stoner can be used for

[silent storm]

Stoner is the one with the muzzle that can't be changed right?

[clever merlin]

quiet roar with 500 mag size

[livid sorrel]

tipping scales? it stacks on time spent firing so the slower fire rate might actually work for it

[silent storm]

I'll take 100 bullets over 500 BBs

[subtle bluff]

A bigger would make this worse

[clever merlin]

i did 500 mags with stoner with frenzy and it used 250 bullets during it

[silent storm]

That's a bad use of Frenzy then

Cutting deep into your DPS

[clever merlin]

yup lol was just messing around

[silent storm]

Anything with Frenzy above 200 - 225 rounds is wasted

[plush thistle]

i mean if it got 1k rpm wouldnt that technically still be ok?

[silent storm]

no

200-225 rounds

[lost wren]

hence why gr9 is best for frenzy

[silent storm]

I like the 249/MK46 for Frenzy

Feels better to me while shooting

[plush thistle]

ill have to retry the 249 again its been mentioned more times then i can count compared to gr9

[silent storm]

I do have this saved though for when I want to waste mats to try it out

[smoky latch]

They're both fast firing archetypes. I prefer those too

[summer totem]

Perfect determined or determined for oneshot builds?

[smoky latch]

Regular Determined

[plush thistle]

just determined

[livid sorrel]

perfect determined is worse

[smoky latch]

Cuz it's broken

[plush thistle]

white death or model 700 for maximum damage or versatility sr-1 never found a reason for sr-1 though

[silent storm]

People are using the brokenness of Determined to say that Tier 10 Escalation doesn't need to bring a healer to it lol

[smoky latch]

White Death is good, SR1 is good
Preference. WD has a slight upper hand HSD wise

[grizzled garnet]

have they confirmed that its not working as intended? since i'd imagine if it wasnt meant to be self perpetuating it would have the same working as perfect determined

[warped sail]

man... wasted so much mats with bad weapon combos but think ive finally settled on my first ever expertise build

[silent storm]

What is it?

[plush thistle]

my only probably with white death is the weird kick to the left throws me off when i try to chain my shots T~T

[smoky latch]

Watch this, then you'll understand

https://youtu.be/rS6-TqtkrzA?si=KAsX0vHSJVRIFXqh

[warped sail]

its kinda built on the recombinant feature... overcharging skills every 45 seconds

[plush thistle]

what exotic is that i havent seen that one yet? the gun

[silent storm]

Sawyer's Knees and the GS BP?

[warped sail]

gs bp?

[silent storm]

Gear Set BackPack

[smoky latch]

It has a great recoil imo. Again, preference. Play a bit with it and see if you really can't handle it

[warped sail]

ravenous, it enhances damage to plates... its primarily built for legendaries vs black tusk, helping the team be explosive resistant

[silent storm]

Why not Memento and GS knees?

[plush thistle]

ah thats cool ill have to check that out one day

[silent storm]

Or even that new Harrier BP?

[warped sail]

because i want the total damage weapon modifier and the ability to weather explosions without getting stuck in place

[silent storm]

But you need to be stuck in place for Sawyer's to work

[analog mural]

guys how can i get the big al outside of the anni event

[warped sail]

exactly, hence the overcharged cover protection

[silent storm]

I understand the Hollow Man, I was looking at that as well for that GS

[warped sail]

to enable that, you can sit there and chonk alot of explosions

[silent storm]

But Sawyer's?

[warped sail]

yes, total weapon damage... thats an extra modifier pool thats otherwise missing

[silent storm]

Explosions are bad in higher level content 2 and you are dead dead

[plush thistle]

sorry was caught up in some new well new info to me why ceska bp is it to help get more chd on attribute via the gear set bonus instead of 10% lmg?

[shy willow]

yeahhhh but then you also lose crit and your red core so its not worth

[silent storm]

And they lob multiple at you like 3-6

[warped sail]

not so dead with 80% explosion resistance and around 10 million armor

[plush thistle]

can't you shoot the grenades? i can't say i get them all but i do get them 45% of the time

[warped sail]

and being an anti drone/robot build

so you can shoot them before they fly to you

then theres overcharged oxidizer which softens everything up

[silent storm]

You can shoot the grenades and I try to do that all the time but IDK I never built CS like that so maybe if you get 10 mil armor . . .

[shy willow]

where are you pulling 10m armour from

[warped sail]

fortified smart cover

[silent storm]

Ahh

[shy willow]

in any case at tier 10 its like 600 percent incoming damage

[warped sail]

and 2.5 million base

[silent storm]

You can't even use Smart Cover above Tier 5 because of shock

[warped sail]

then your rifle also gives you % armor

shock?

[shy willow]

so more or less you can divide that by 6

[silent storm]

In Escalation if you sit still you get shocked

[warped sail]

this sint for escalation, i ahvent done that yet

this is for legendaries vs tusk primarily

[silent storm]

BT are the worst for bombong the heck out of you lol

They bombed my dead body for like 15 seconds one time after I was dead dead

[warped sail]

yeah, i felt i needed to help my team survive such explosions and take out robots/drones faster... this si what i came up with ><

thankfully new core strength set and recombinant does serious work to pull it all together

[flint arch]

best way to take drones out is to shoot the drone operator before they launch any, you might survive but your teammates likely won't

even if you give them armor, there's like 2 drones at minimum flying towards you

[warped sail]

hence oxidizer

[silent storm]

Or shoot the Drones as they deploy them so they blow up the operator

[warped sail]

that too

[flint arch]

that works too

[grizzled garnet]

for flying drones just shoot them as soon as they throw them up

[silent storm]

Overdogs helps with that as you get 30% WD to them

[warped sail]

hmmm, good point

[silent storm]

For all you OvD haters lol

[plush thistle]

1 question lmg 3rd attribute chc or dta? i am asking because 1 is closer to perfect then other so unless it makes a big enough impact i'd rather just use dta lack of shd calibrations T~T

[livid sorrel]

who hates overdogs

[silent storm]

Lots of people appearently

[plush thistle]

whats wrong with overdogs?

[woeful zodiac]

For a Tinkerer Rifle build, should I use the Salvo holster?

[warped sail]

people just like to hate

always gonna be someone to hate just about anything

[plush thistle]

well hating something is easier than liking something

[livid sorrel]

i get not liking being limited to only the lowest tier but it still works out to be good statistically iirc

[silent storm]

Go back a few days in this chat and you will see lots of OvD hate

[livid sorrel]

probably contrarians that hate anything meta for reasons

[woeful zodiac]

Also which talents are great with Killer?

[silent storm]

Some of them are good players with reasons I don't subscribe to]

[subtle bluff]

Biggest thing is just a bigger number

[lone violet]

I always have my drone target drone master or engineer

[plush thistle]

good enough for me chc it is

[lone violet]

Naders or medics

[silent storm]

9.5 is bigger than 6

[subtle bluff]

6 vs 9.5 (10).. DTA does and some dmg but the 9 CHC most of the time will add 24 CHD afterwards

[silent storm]

I rounded up lol

[flint arch]

i feel like a crosshair is on me for some reason

[subtle bluff]

basically

[warped sail]

being good typically doesnt mean theyre the best judge, some people only ever learn beliefs that help them excel in an easy and predictable manner, they never develop an understanding that would allow them to actually define meta

[plush thistle]

ah it makes it closer to 60% i see ok ty

[silent storm]

This entire game proceeds in a predictable manner. Once you see the matrix you can plan for it and overcome it easily.

[warped sail]

probably because you painted one on your head, lol

[flint arch]

I will clarify that my username is a joke

[subtle bluff]

TBH till now I didn't know what was in his profile pic here..
I thought it was a funny looking toothless

[flint arch]

Actually no, I hate Overdogs.

Because it makes it harder to hotswap to Birdie's

[silent storm]

That is the reason the builds pushed by those that know are mostly DPS Red Core heavy. Because once you scheme the mission you just need to brute force it to succeed

[subtle bluff]

get gooder

[flint arch]

[warped sail]

the games definately made easy mode with a red heavy machine gun, i gotta say lol

[subtle bluff]

I also have too many speedrun in where I have to do a swap like that.

[flint arch]

I don't really use Overdogs nowadays since I main PVGC Striker 24/7

[silent storm]

If Massive really wanted to mess with the program they would add multiple spawn place chances and then add in anomalies like a single Rogue agent in a normal spawn

[warped sail]

though, forcing them into cover can be a pain... hence my love for oxidizer forcing them out of cover

[silent storm]

And not tell anyone they were doing it for all missions

[flint arch]

one day I was doing retal with INF and doomz, doomz went down, I tried hotswapping to birdie's, but because I was using a Nego build with overdogs I was spamming the Birdie's bag being confused on why it wasn't working

[livid sorrel]

i'd fw that ngl, imagine hearing rogue agent detected while you're pinned down

[warped sail]

imagine if you could toggle on a pvp option like in dark soul games... lol

[silent storm]

I love it. When that voice line comes across my speakers in the open world I hunt that dude

[faint nebula]

corestrength backfire build? or just stick with striker?

[flint arch]

striker

[faint nebula]

everyones raving about this core strength set. im not seeing it

[livid sorrel]

cs isn't a dps gearset at all

[silent storm]

It's fun because you can hybrid it and still do massive DMG

[warped sail]

core strength is kinda busted mainly because of recombinant overcharge

[flint arch]

core strength, more like core weakness amirite

[livid sorrel]

massive by all blue or yellow build standards, sure

[faint nebula]

man im doing it wrong then cause i find its fine for challenging... but just about everything is fine for challenging

[lost wren]

pvgc striker with frenzy gr9 is basically how i'm going about escalation now
higher tiers maybe i'll do striker chest with salvo and ceska or maybe even hollow man

[plush thistle]

aight i think i got everything for this one so did i miss anything?

[warped sail]

you get a tonne of skill efficiency on a primarily red build, then get overcharge on demand every 45 seconds with 45 offense

[lost wren]

looks good to me

[plush thistle]

sweet i finally have a build done only took me 600 levels

[silent storm]

#td2-build-advice message This build of CS is fun

[warped sail]

ideal recombinant stacks for core strength set:

[silent storm]

I feel like that is what I am going to use for Conflict for a long time

[plush thistle]

what can i do to fix this one i feel like skills could use a different pick but what about stats or maybe a gun change?

[lost wren]

looks fine i think

i don't know much about TS though

[plush thistle]

its basically hold down trigger to build stacks and do more damage based off chc and chd

[flint needle]

anyone got any advice seen spreadsheets on best smgs is the tac vec much better than the black winter ?

[faint nebula]

i basically run that exact build with bulletking. never reloading is fun. less crowdcontrol though

[subtle bluff]

It's only like a few % better than either.

Tac vector has better Base WD and reload vs the .45 the .45 does have a few more ads then too.

But really SMG9 is more balance is very close behind on burst but more in mag dmg.

[flint needle]

ty sm

[merry stone]

st chad engine still top meta gun?? what about eagle bearer

[round siren]

Any other good gear I could use on this build?

[plush thistle]

1 last quesiton i'm sorry for the 249 what mods did you choose? did you go all in on chc and do chd on gear or opposite? slip in some stability?

[subtle bluff]

all CHC

[plush thistle]

ill have to swap some chc on my gear then gotcha

[livid sorrel]

ninjabike isn't worth losing the backpack

[round siren]

Yeah that’s I want to change the build I don’t really know any good gear I could use with the blue screen

[livid sorrel]

tipping scales backpack

after that you'll want to aim for equalizer named chest and overdogs exotic

[round siren]

Should I change the knee pads for Ones that have more armor

[livid sorrel]

no, trading damage for armor only makes you weaker and delays dying by like a second

[round siren]

Ah Alr

[flint arch]

blue cores are not worth running if you're not using a shield

and in this case, you can't even use shields at all

[plush thistle]

every time i think i got it all figured out theres that 1 more question i see you have banshee does that count as a status effect on kill and does the decoy when they shoot it also count as a status effect on kill for OD?

[round siren]

Alr any other changes I could make?

[livid sorrel]

im guessing you dont have overdogs

[flint arch]

a ceska piece that isn't the chest or backpack will work for now

[round siren]

Nope Should I go to summit for that?

[flint arch]

summit is pretty bad for loot farming

challenging countdown with gloves TL, or hyena retaliation

[round siren]

I’ll have a better shot with retaliation I think

[plush thistle]

if you can handle heroic retaliations i'd recommend those personally my rng is bad thou so that's just me if you got decent luck i'd do countdown like he said

[proven hedge]

hello and good day

I would like to ask if there is someone here that can help me get the quickstep?

[flint arch]

#lfg-pc

[proven hedge]

thank you

[round siren]

Ah ok thanks for the help!

[flint arch]

Banshee applies Disorient, which is a status effect and will trigger OD's effect

when enemies shoot the decoy, it only pulses them, which is not considered a status effect. the decoy is used more for utility (drawing away enemy aggro from yourself)

[plush thistle]

gotcha ty kind sir is it possible to get the build started and swap guns with od and keep hollow points?

[woeful forge]

Can anyone help me with a specific build? I really want to make Scorpio with Eclipse Protocol to work, what armour pieces should i get that apart from a 4 piece eclipse and the vile?

[plush thistle]

don't forget it has to be hyena's

[flint arch]

hollow-point ammo will only be given for the gun you're holding the moment you trigger the effect, but it won't go away when you swap weapons

[tulip charm]

Electriq bag with creeping death

[smoky latch]

Or The Setup

[plush thistle]

so if i use iron lung apply fire damage and finish him off with my 2ndary then equip a new gun and use hollow points to next enemy then finish him off with primary both would have hollow point i know thats complicated but just making sure i understand how od works

[flint arch]

basically yeah

[woeful forge]

Im not sure if I should run the eclipse backpack or replace it with a creeping death one or if i run grease kneepads ibstead, and what core should I be running, full yellow with stat effect non cores or have some blue cores?

[tulip charm]

You only run ep bag if its the fire verison

[woeful forge]

Iron Lung?

[flint arch]

iron lung is not used with eclipse protocol

[tulip charm]

^

[buoyant perch]

The status effect from Scorpio can spread with ep but its status duration is not affected by status effect stat so it doesn't synergize well

[subtle bluff]

Anything that would CC is a Status Effect

[shy willow]

you would want capacitor or everlasting gaze or something

anything that applies a status effect itself will gank your creeping death proc

[woeful forge]

Oh okok, so i run creeping death electriq and replace grease kneepads with eclipse kneepads instead? Do I run this as an all yellow core?

[tulip charm]

Yeah since youll be running survivalist

[woeful forge]

Why survivalist specifically? In still unclear with some of the specializations apart from gunner and sharpshooter

[tulip charm]

Cc amp and crossbow op

[flint arch]

also the fire grenade makes it really easy to proc sledgehammer

[tulip charm]

Fire nade is also good

[woeful forge]

Oh wait it has cc amp? Yeah ok im switching spec for this build

Any secondaries i can run with this build to improve it or is it just a scorpio only type of build?

[buoyant perch]

CC amp for your teammates only, not you

[woeful forge]

I run this specifically for team play anyway so fine by me

[plush thistle]

wait does that mean hollow points that generates bleed counts as cc?

[subtle bluff]

Yes bleeds are a Status Effect

[plush thistle]

ah snap that makes it easy then ok

[tulip charm]

Since its support ver ig everlasting gaze or lefty

[woeful forge]

I dont have gaze yet but I do have lefty so i'll run that, also what mods should I run with this build? I just have protection from elites slapped on to it atm

[tulip charm]

Pfe/skill haste/disrupt res

[woeful forge]

So 1 of each?

[tulip charm]

No you pick

[woeful forge]

Ah, guess i'll stay with pfe

[tulip charm]

Pfe is kinda mid most of the time

[woeful forge]

Would disrupt res be better for hunters then?

[silent storm]

What is gaze?

[round siren]

Yuh

[tulip charm]

Yeah also if you plan on using it in escalation

[silent storm]

EMP on Hunters is bonerific

EMP them before they can EMP you

[analog mural]

how good is big ale compared to a high end lmg setup with frenzy + tinkerer + fast hands