td2-build-advice

[cerulean smelt]

dec 2nd we start babysitting an NPC

[silent storm]

I tried to pair it with those gloves that do the -50% spread but that was hot garbage

[hexed steppe]

zealot is the only one i like tbh. advanced material was good until grenade launcher was forced to reload instead of swap reloading. dead modifier after that

[onyx sage]

#td2-build-advice message

[silent storm]

Advanced Materiel is for TS and Gunner

[hexed steppe]

trying to give grandpa a stroke so you can get that inheritance early i see 😂

[onyx sage]

you're welcome, remember to split me the house

[cerulean smelt]

you mean mansion?

[onyx sage]

no, the exotic smg in div1

[silent storm]

Best gun ever

Would be awesome if they brought D3-FNC over here

And The House. I get it though, people can only afford The Apartment now though because of inflation

[rich cosmos]

We need the cardboard box to be accurate now

[cerulean smelt]

nah, we need the slowest firing weapon called president with a 1000% damage taken while equipped 😹

[silent storm]

I was going to say something but would probably get banned for it lol, so I will just say also applies all debuffs

[cerulean smelt]

you're already at that level huh?

[mental tangle]

I want that build so much

[hexed steppe]

pretty hard to get banned, but probably a smart choice

[gloomy spruce]

Is it tho, is it?

Certainly a smart choice tho not to say anything...

[hexed steppe]

I think so. I know before mod i felt like banning was pretty minimal and required pretty blatent disregard for rules and/or disrespectful attitude. 90% of bans i see are from hacked accounts spamming scam links

[strong cave]

Depends entirely what's being said and who's taking what into what context

[shy willow]

to get banned, probably
to get threatened with a ban probably not

[violet juniper]

it's great with the rocket pod, minigun and TAC-50 though. Rocket pod means endless rocket salvos which is genuinely op, Minigun is always a good choice, and free TAC-50 rounds on a sniper build is just a no brainer

[silent storm]

Well I got banned from the Rubenator discord talking about trump back when he was in his first term. I don't like that dude.

[grand girder]

politics are a great way to ruin many conversations where it was never required in the first place

[hazy steeple]

It's also very much not welcome on this server, so let's not go any further.

[meager fog]

Its just on, from running with others earlier. It isnt used

[cloud laurel]

U on?

In game?

This is what you said earlier so in the video you’re using revive so is your build not good? Since I’m using both meaning my build isn’t good right? It’s why I’m asking for a challenge

[hazy steeple]

That's honestly a weird thing to say, dorky.

[cloud laurel]

You talk too much about perfection yet you still using revive and still not see you in game. Since 6pm MT until now when you said you always in game. Don’t assume ppl using bother shield and revive are NOT GOOD from your word not mine

[hazy steeple]

@cloud laurel That's enough of the "1v1 me" stuff.

[cloud laurel]

He claimed he a good build and mock those using revive and shield are NOT GOOD

[hazy steeple]

I'm aware, but reacting to it like that is not helping anyone.

Everyone here started out as a newbie at one point, we're all here to help out folks who ask for it.

[buoyant perch]

That's some weird gate keeping stuff considering the best players like broken, toasty, Hutchler all use shield when it's needed. There's a time and place for it.

[cloud laurel]

I’m agreed but don’t mock those ppl using revive and shield are NOT GOOD, decoy and emp are the 2 cheapest skills to used in leg, one is to pull aggro away from you and other shutdown chunga or wardog. Which im dislike when running in leg so yeah.

also it’s why I’m dislike cover to cover and hide out of range and dps. it’s boring playstyle anyway I’m still waiting in game any time now @meager fog

[astral kraken]

He posted his gameplay in this channel. It speaks for itself. Probably best to move on.

Just treat it like a YTer hot take 😛

[hazy steeple]

Folks are welcome to their opinions, but let's keep the gate-keeping out of this channel, it already happens far too often in here.

[subtle bluff]

playstyle and gameplay makes the difference.

[meager fog]

Didnt say the people weren't good. I said a build shouldn't REQUIRE them to work. Context is important. Dont misquote people.

[astral kraken]

There are plenty of good builds that are built around the shield. Saying that confidently in a place where new players take advice is counter productive to this channel. It's just flat out wrong.

Even saying something like a build "requiring" revive hive doesn't actually make any sense. Revive hive isn't a component of builds. It's used as a fallback in case something goes wrong. Builds don't require it to survive.

And even that is flat out wrong because there are builds designed around revive hives. For example builds that use Birdie's and rely on a lot of revive charges (instead of just 1-2 that you get from red builds). Is it the best type of build? No but that doesn't it make it a bad build.

[shy willow]

Basically every tank build with survivability in mind's lifeline is the car door

[gloomy spruce]

I once had a random MM group on Roosevelt who needed constant reviving. This was before Birdies existed. Pretty much I played FI with a reviver hive instead of a healing hive. I had so many revives in that run.

I was basically a necromancer. The skill haste given by the BTSU gloves is really helpful for reviver hives. Birdies creates a really good competitor to the BTSU's for reviver healer builds.

[grizzled light]

I’m wondering if the new rifle and birdie’s combo will make it more viable, I love mine so much

[gentle lichen]

what was the new rifle again
premium doctor home?

[analog mural]

i used to have a mindset of being a safety net to other players but that hindered my healing power alot with FI when i didnt have a restorer hive

now i do FI with restorer hives only, if you die without a revive hive to get you back up, its on you

i have overcharge to refresh your hive cd, and if u die after that by standing in the open, its on you

theres only so much you can do to keep an idiot running around

[hazy steeple]

Div2 is not that cut and dry when it comes to damage being taken.

[gloomy spruce]

This group had lots of damage, but absolutely no sense at the time. They were likely new to Legendary Roosevelt and often just ran into areas that had known Chunga Mobs. At one point, I was the last one standing.

I was playing striker up to that point. So I swapped piece by piece to FI. I could heal them, but they just kept dying. So I then started using the reviver en masse.

[analog mural]

if ur dps teammates for some god forsaken reason dont have a revive hive on them for legendary content, it makes things alot more difficult when all of them goes down

worst case scenario, they are spread out in the open

[gloomy spruce]

Some of them had revivers, but they just still kept dying. BTSU's were also a god send for refreshing them.

[gloomy spruce]

They were, hence why the range on the reviver was also most welcome, lol.

[analog mural]

u also cant make use of btsu much if ur hive is on cd tho so fyi

[gloomy spruce]

True, but your charges come back quick and so it became worth it.

[analog mural]

except detonating ur revive hive does not instantly restore all charges, at best ur getting 1-2 back

[gloomy spruce]

True, but by that point, I had already burned through 5 or so.

It was a disaster.

[gentle lichen]

i would certainly love healers and being a healer if they would do something about this

[subtle bluff]

FI is strong but if your team is taking too much FI is not the way

Refactor can be better for lower exp teams

[analog mural]

but then you would have to contemplate on whether wanting to save revive charges or deplete all of them to restore your teammates revive hive

so best scenario: just use restorer and if ur teammates arent using revive hives on leg and die in the open, jokes on them

[gloomy spruce]

Now that is certainly the case. Back then, it did not exist. I am glad the devs introduced more healing options.

[subtle bluff]

They hold a lil agro too and the heal doesn't matter where they hard

Refactor is nice but it does require some thought.

[gloomy spruce]

Ultimately, we made it through the mission. I was upset that night and I violently refused to take a loss for a rando matchmaking run.

[analog mural]

trust me u will have a much better time with restorer hive

[gloomy spruce]

It didn't work. Hence why I went from DPS to necromancer.

[analog mural]

ur teammates didnt work 🥀

its very unlikely someone dies within a restorer hive

[gloomy spruce]

That is kind of fair, but they were likely new to that mission. Again, they had damage, but just not enough sense to stop themselves from just rushing chungas out in the open.

[analog mural]

u cant outheal chungas laying bullets upon bullets on you

[gentle lichen]

the damage can come in bursts and it is very easy to die inside a hive in leg

moment they proc OSP you're in the danger zone

[analog mural]

div2 has the uhhh "shield" mechanic thing that does prevent you from getting one-shot

but u need to heal back to full HP or otherwise the next shot would kill you

[gentle lichen]

yes and after that anything can 1 shot you for the next 30 secs

[gentle lichen]

armor doesn't matter except for taking a few stray bullets im talking about john division facetrading an elite assault after proccing OSP

that hive charge will not reach them before they get downed

[analog mural]

but still i think if ur sticking to cover and consistently get healed its hard to die unless john black tusk sniper is zeroing in on you😭

[analog mural]

john division

[hazy steeple]

Or an enemy goes in a weird spot and you happen to have a finger out of cover.

or you desync a little and they just kill you when they can't possibly shoot you.

[gentle lichen]

I love how pve works just the same way in pvp

[gentle lichen]

Besides all that another really annoying thing is the bug with the hive just overdosing you out of nowhere

It's especially worse when they got the bumass patriot effect that makes it sound like a stinger and loud as hell

[analog mural]

oh yea the hive giving u 6 charges when u lose 0.1% hp every 0.5s

also the hive when you are almost on the verge of death but its blocked by a piece of pebble

[gentle lichen]

I seriously miss the support station from div 1

[analog mural]

and i seriously wish reclaimer had made a comeback in td2 but i have no idea how it would work with all of the hive variants

[gentle lichen]

Could you imagine that one gearset that gave you every type of station coming back

[analog mural]

hmmmm jinxed

[gentle lichen]

I mean they already brought back final measure in some capacity

It's not out of this world for them to consider it

[analog mural]

it does not defuse grenades and give everyone a damage boost tho 😭

i feel like BT grenades are far more deadly

[gentle lichen]

I think that was the classified effect no?
Normal just defused and added a grenade

[scenic whale]

I pray for the day I can ignore BT airburst grenadiers on legendary. Chucking it at a mini tank and watch it get insta destroyed is funny tho

[analog mural]

yes but since FI offered a damage boost, final measure in td2 hypothetically should also have a dmg boost

[scenic whale]

Tho MA is also funny for tech room trolling in summit

[gloomy spruce]

I thought MA effected enemy grenades. Can't you just use the backpack and lower the cooldown to 1 second?

[scenic whale]

Unless it’s a grenade deployed by a turret or mortars of the same effect nah

Thrower grenades and dog type grenades are going straight through

[subtle bluff]

needs to be from a npc's skill

[scenic whale]

It also doesn’t work against “pure tech” like Stovepipes manhunt drones either

[gloomy spruce]

That is disappointing.

[scenic whale]

Cause they just spawn from the doors instead of of being a deployed

Tho I’m surprised it cancels Martinez’s mortar flare call. That didn’t seem like a deployed skill but I guess the game considers it one

[torn shale]

looking to improve my build if possible any tips or changes people would make? im 2/3 weeks in on this char so for example still looking for a perfect body. cheers for the help! (also using random guns as a second weapon to level them up for expertize)

[buoyant perch]

It's pretty good already. Just get a ceska chest with obliterate and get crit chance to 50% ish or close to 60% if you play solo.

[torn shale]

cheers been looking for one but no luck as of yet sadly! i was using my chameleon with this body cause of the chameleon talent to figured crig dmg > crit rate with that

[subtle bluff]

Use any weapon with +780 rpm w/ killer for solo you’ll see a nice boost

Ortry it out

[agile citrus]

this applies to the stack not diorient correct? am bored and looking at striker alternitve options

the wording is weird, cant tell if disoient duration is applied to apex stacks.

Im considering a oxipecker build or backfire

ew

[strong cave]

At top end you'll get 25 amplified weapon damage. And increasing the stacks from 10s to 30s just means it takes 30s for the stacks to disappear. Neither the backpack or the chest piece are worth it

[agile citrus]

ampd?

[strong cave]

Amplified Damage is another damage source apart from say, weapon damage or skill damage. I don't know the exact formula for how damage is calculated but I do know Amplified damage is usually good. With hunters fury, it's basically like unstoppable force but you're limited to close range and instead of getting Weapon Damage you're getting Amplified Damage (same damage source Overdogs uses)

It's a good set to use for solo play. I recommend it

[shy willow]

Amp damage generally means it's a unique multiplier

[agile citrus]

then this will be good. it will multple well with my hh chest, memento back, sniper and... either bh or strega. (yes Im butchering it immediatly -_-)

I think will roll well with strega specifically, need knees

[agile citrus]

time to break it in. I might go out for milk on it, or it might get a dodge charger for its 16th birthday. we'll see

actually... Ima run with gunner. cuz strega sucks

revised cuz strega needs vitamin B

yyyy this is fine. no milk trip.

[stark flicker]

How does ouro compare to lex?

[subtle bluff]

Range

[stark flicker]

I got one from stretch goals but the damage seems a bit lackluster

[stark flicker]

Uh like 15m ig

Wtv range ouro will be most effective

I got one with 14.2 smg dmg 17 chc and 9 dtooc

[broken edge]

ouro is for absurd burst DPS in close range

lex is consistent in most ranges

[agile citrus]

he means their close, but the range is the defintion.

[stark flicker]

ah alr

[agile citrus]

a good way to consider it is, they both good, but oreo eats your exo slot

[stark flicker]

I don't have an exo in my current build

I kinda wanna slot in oreo but a buncha of the chc will go to waste

this is smth I just kinda slapped together (forge stand in for salvo)

improvements?

55chc 163 chd

I kinda want salvo for the extra fire rate but with oreo already being so high I wonder if p oblit would be better

[agile citrus]

consider just tossing scorpio as your secondary. if you have a build concept, scorpio will compliment anything

[stark flicker]

kk

[agile citrus]

on the hunter fury note. so... NOONE HATE ME PLS

Im.... considering... NB. ducks

[stark flicker]

the ar damage and haz pro doesn't really do anything for me in this build

[agile citrus]

hear me out!, with the new firerate holster (strega sux...) the fire rate holster, providence chest, 3 piece HF

[stark flicker]

esp bc oreo's talent is only active if I get statused

[agile citrus]

but if no ninjabike, you have to take either bag or back, they both suck, and if you choose backpack which is less suck, no good chest exos, and if you choose chest, memento obviously... but theirs so much regen in HF -_-

[agile citrus]

+ar is similar to nb, in that it looks good on paper but doesnt payout the same

[stark flicker]

right but it's an smg build meaning I literally do not use ar's

[agile citrus]

also, a headsup, forge is extremely misleading. it only buffs the shield base hp. if you wanted that, go with mother gloves. it buffs shield hp by 20% or something and affects all levels

[stark flicker]

reread the message

"(forge stand in for salvo)"

[subtle bluff]

Forge is bad and point less here

[stark flicker]

I do not have a dev build of buildstation

[subtle bluff]

Oh. Not much better

[subtle bluff]

Join the discord

[stark flicker]

dm me

[subtle bluff]

No.

[agile citrus]

it was weird cuz that was a build spread, which is why it was confusing

[subtle bluff]

It's on the site..

[agile citrus]

I dont know what salvo is tbh

[stark flicker]

the unit fire rate holster

[agile citrus]

oooooo ok. yyy then

[stark flicker]

kk

[stark flicker]

I'm in the discord now what?

[agile citrus]

meme builds anonymous (brand fire rate holst, pistol pocket mariokart)
https://buildstation.app/td2/builder/game/new I give up on making a picture. sigh

[stark flicker]

?

[agile citrus]

it uh. didnt save? ldfjdasjdkl I -_- I had an account through discord, it wont activate, and the sign wants pass and eamil

[stark flicker]

yeah the link just redirects to a blank build

[analog mural]

this pvp build will dominate darkzones!!!!!

[agile citrus]

holster is salvo, pistol is mariokart

[agile citrus]

someone did this once, appearently armor shows up as 1 massive white bar

[analog mural]

bro dies from 1 stray bullet an elite level rusher sprayed out of nowhere

[stark flicker]

I can sort of see the vision but really what does hf do aside from healing

[agile citrus]

its a preliminary design, but weirdly its not awful. salvo offer +20 ar dmg talent two, providence is +10% cc talent 2, and the holster will force you to choose between chest or backpack, and both are kinda terrible

[analog mural]

uh im thinking HF works well when u get kills in solo play?

which the strega is designed around?

[agile citrus]

hf offer distortion and +25 amped dmg. basically glasscannon

[stark flicker]

isn't the dmg buff only for smg and shotguns

like from the 4pc talent

[analog mural]

yea....

wait no thats like the 2pc, and the 4pc talent works with any weapons i believe

[agile citrus]

they will multiple into one another

strega is an amp too. it goes up to I think 100%

[analog mural]

interesting, i might consider getting it to branch out on HF but im not sure if strega is good overall

[stark flicker]

yes but it's basically just worse determined hh

no matter how you build it it's determined hh if it was worse

[analog mural]

i might just use regular crit

[agile citrus]

the build heavily compensates for strega sux factor. it offers +5% rof from gunner, +13% from salvo and +20 ar from salvo. strega isnt terrible, just far from optimal. if you had a group who only used strega tho

it stacks into itself

[stark flicker]

I double checked and the 4pc works with any weapon but it's at 15 m or less which atp you'd be doing way more with an smg

[analog mural]

yea i mean... the set is built with smgs in mind

i really love HF for solo play

[agile citrus]

I already fight at 15m always. Im a shield and close range cover addict. I DESPISE suppression. I am not a fan of the lmg meta

[stark flicker]

c&p smg-9 does what strega wants to in this better

but I mean it's c&p

[agile citrus]

strega is only bad cuz its cc is low af. its actaully a very good gun with very good stability

could use some mag size, meh

considering it a 100% amp at full power I think its base form is justified

[stark flicker]

the dmg is fine it's mostly the firerate tbh

easy way to balance it is to give it higher firerate in base that slowly decreases to the 800 mark as you get stacks

[agile citrus]

you have to take into account 100% amp. skill dmg, talents, everything gets buffed. strega is walking dtooc engine. as long as it gets last bullet

[stark flicker]

is that 833 with or without the seasonal modifier?

[agile citrus]

I dont use season

[stark flicker]

I've tried using strega in the past it was the first exotic I got on this account

it is very lackluster even compared to he guns

but if you found a way to make it do smth similar to function power to you ig

[agile citrus]

its issue is you have to be very good for it to pay off. there are too many op guns in division that will steal the kill. its not the kill that makes strega good, its after the kill. it applies +15% dtooc to all enemies close by, this also stacks I think 5 times, which hits about 105%

and if your whole team is good, youll never see it unless people play around you. if everyone uses strega tho, cuz it builds into itself, thats broken and 100% worth
meaning everyones strega adds to the +15% maxxing the 100% for all

[agile citrus]

its current output. this is its first form. its still good and Ill keep this loadout, but this wont play into salvo well
keep in mind, the numbers are good, but its rof is lower than say elmo. this means the numbers dont necessarily make it better

[magic pilot]

Strega does not give dtooc

[agile citrus]

I will be more specific, strega offers amped damage. It does not give damage to Target out of cover. In fact, the additional damage affects enemies that are in cover

I used that term, not because it was exact, but because it is a damage type that the average player base recognizes as amped damage

[bold osprey]

Conflict builds plz

[cloud laurel]

Go to pvp channel

[magic pilot]

The average player would be wrong then, and should be given the right terminology

Also stega doesn't work with other players Strega stacks

[magic pilot]

Bighorn regen

[bold osprey]

ok thanks

[cloud laurel]

They nerfed my Strega from 20% to 15% and now it collecting dust. I wish they would return the exotic materials when savage since my Strega +27…….

[meager fog]

Dttooc isnt an AMP, although it acts as one on alot of builds due to lack of available sources.

It does add to other Dttooc sources, if they're used. Although there are only 4 sources of it in the game

[worn imp]

@meager fog speaking of amps, Is the base DPS of Bluescreen higher than base DPS of MK46 with flatline procced

[agile citrus]

This is possible. Hm. To to be clear, strega doesn't stack with another's strega? This was claimed when it launched. If it was patched or incorrect, I'll remember

So if all four people had strega. And one person got a strega stack, and then someone else got it, would there be two strega stacks next to each other above the head of the enemy. And only the one with the highest number would affect the party

The theory when it first launched, was that it would still cap out at 5, but two people could work together

[meager fog]

Base DPS of the Bluescreen is 748,332

Base DPS of MK46 is 684,250, with Flatline procced this comes to 786,887

[worn imp]

ty

[agile citrus]

If the weapon doesn't correctly follow it's own description which specifically defines itself as "amp DMG" and this doesn't play out, this would a serious flaw. The theoretical use of strega is with every bullet kill you apply a stacking amp for you and your party. If this is incorrect, this is a big issue as it contradicts it's label

[meager fog]

Of course that works on the theory that you can keep flatline procced 100%< not difficult with laser pointer but still

[agile citrus]

Also was wondering why 105% sounded wrong for 15%. That's like 75% @cloud laurel

[magic pilot]

It doesn't work for the team

It was visible to other players using Strega but it never game them the dmg boost from another user. Pretty sure the visual bug is patched now

[magic pilot]

Its label doesn't dsay anything about it working for party

[cloud laurel]

It’s better to stay in my stash and collect dust while Elmo by far better and can be play with many different way.

Like these 2 here, or shotgun but it’s depend on how I wanted to buff the team or not

[stone python]

what kind of build is this? 4 strikers, Turmoil knee pads and exotic holster centurion scabbard

[agile citrus]

Then it's borderline useless outside of solo play. Cuz it's kind of a bad gun in general in comparison to Elmo etc

[agile citrus]

No this was based off of other players being able to see the label. Thanks for clarifying

It has a hope for being relevant, if you get the damage bonus from participating in the combat. But that would be it
It doesn't have the mag to benefit from negotiators dilemma, and the fact that it buffs everything in five increments, and only buffs you up to 75%? And loses combat wise to an Elmo or any relatively similar DPS? No.
On kill weapons are always so dum

[patent fossil]

Theoretically high dps but awkward to make the most of due to the difficulty of building/maintaining high stacks with striker chest, and the faff of regular weapon switches to get the centurion buffs. It might be intended for some very specific raid/incursion tactic I guess

[lament reef]

bro is burning the food

[cloud laurel]

Good dps build but he gonna waste more ammo than damage. Turmoil only good if your dmg can hit 2M+ per bullet and anything below that isn’t worthy. Even if you can 1M+, splits that into 2, only 500k per sec. Bluescreen with tipping can hit up to 2.5M without turmoil. So it’s worthy for using turmoil. Even my BF can hit up to 3M+ without turmoil. So, they’re good and bad since LMG can be long range snipe NPC vs SMG short burst close up.

Or to use turmoil correctly, use 1 shot HE build with rifle or MMR and see how broken turmoil is lol

[dreamy valve]

Hmm never used Centurion

[agile citrus]

It very powerful. I just like memento better.

It either has high fire rate or boosted weaponsmg + magsize.
The reason I personally despise it is each possible talent has a timer. Meaning to always buff you have to swap consistently. They went through a thing this was a thing

[cloud laurel]

Memento is everything

[agile citrus]

There's a set that does this too, that came out at the same time. I think there was also some modifiers too to go with both abominations

[dreamy valve]

Never really a big fan of activation management gear during combat myself

Just one more thing you have to worry about in higher difficulty situations

I dropped umbra because of that as well

[lament reef]

even just the long buff is really good

[agile citrus]

Umbra and I agree we hate each other. We hated each other on sight. He was short and cowardly, I was tall and confrontational. I called him a rat he called me a pushy bully. We don't respect one another
(for context umbra is largely used in PvP to crouch in wait for someone, pop out and then with a very high DMG short term bonus, hit them, while my gaming type it to counter and push an enemy, with consistent stats. RUSH B)

[subtle bluff]

Even tho that's what you have to do with rav

[dreamy valve]

Hue hue hue memento all da way den

[rich lotus]

Say what you want but this build works like an absolute charm, i highly advise it for pve content only and not so much pvp due to this build heavily relying on stacking damage, i personally like to run it with Gunner, Palisade, and 4 blue cores due to the bleeding damage from the backfire, if you want more damage then you can switch those out for something more beneficial but even with this set up i’m getting 1.2 million damage per crit and thats without any additional group buffs or modifiers and yes strikers, obliterate, momento, and backfire are crucial for the build

Heres a clip of this build in action incase anyone wants further proof

[solar sable]

Just wanna add something, not trying to criticise or anything bad.

You don't need any blues to "counter" Backfire's bleed status effect, you only need to have max stacks or reload three times. Lots of people recommend running hazpro but it's absolutely unnecessary regarding bleed.

You can change your phrasing to "blues for survivability" instead of "for backfire's bleed", and it changes the whole perspective

[cloud laurel]

Use belstone chest and you will be happier but nice build since it’s one of my favorite SMG. With 30 tokens collected and you would be around 24k AR, right? Use belstone and that double of your AR

Ahh my revive and shield! Judged from someone it’s a really bad build lol

[rich lotus]

You’re right i should have worded that better but yeah i like my survivability lol so thats what i prefer running this build with

[cloud laurel]

It really strong build in almost everything, even in legendary

[solar sable]

dont bring that up! he'll come for you

[rich lotus]

It really is lol i’m absolutely in love with this build i use it for open world, the DZ, the summit, legendary content, and even raids and incursions, with the damage output of a dps build and the survivability of your average hybrid build, its solid all the way around

[cloud laurel]

This is dps for incursion, just switch turmoil for belstone kneepad fully red.

[gentle lichen]

I would be opposed to use it in dz

[cloud laurel]

I don’t do dz so idk but outside of PvP it’s really fun, you can literally face tank at close range lol

[dreamy valve]

I’m gunna miss this seasons bonus Rof and damage for our builds

[rich lotus]

It actually holds up quite well, granted only in certain situations tho, obviously you’re not gonna wipe out an entire group with it but it serves as a good backup option just incase anyone pops rogue behind your back while you’re clearing a landmark this will get rid of them pretty quick

[gentle lichen]

You said it yourself it's heavily reliant on stacking besides when you're occupied with the landmark someone can drop decoy and burn you down especially with like 3/4 blues no unbreakable

[rich lotus]

Heres what it looks like in the DZ

[gentle lichen]

Maybe if you leave trophies and pick them up once you notice something but a good player will just dodge you until they're off

[rich lotus]

Like i said its a good backup option, you gotta get to them first tho

[subtle bluff]

For all of you there don't know...
There is a diminishing return in this game for CC.
If you get 3 CC in quick succession on the 3rd one you'll get an immunty to it.

[gentle lichen]

It's a case by case when it comes to guys this one just ran up with a gun and a dream lmao

[subtle bluff]

I will debate that belstone is not needed when you have memento. But it still works I understand.

[rich lotus]

Exactly lol its very situational, if theres two or more players then you’re sol but if you need to put a rogue down quick then it can do just fine

[gentle lichen]

Least you could do for pvp is add a damage brand for chest with unbreakable and add a couple more blues cause obviously you'd want all the defense you need and since you're getting a lot of damage from backfire stick with it

That way even 1 trophy is like half your armor which is 1.9 if you're 6 blue you can leave it around and pick it only when know someone is coming

But again someone might dodge you until the short buff ends so facetrade even if they don't shoot you when you have it

[cloud laurel]

I like to have my AR as much as possible since in retal, I’ve dodged the bullets or took dmg and my armor went back up. So I don’t have to deal with them or in leg if I’m heavy cornered as we run tidal. I’ve about 65k AR per sec, so my armor went up pretty fast. Just for that reason

[rich lotus]

Try the build out and see what works lol everybody has different preferences and playing styles i’m not so much showcasing the build as a “YOU NEED TO MAKE THIS BUILD” im more so hoping people will be able to use it as a blueprint and make their own adjustments to it, with the setup i have currently it works quite well for me and although i did share a pvp clip i do not prefer using it in pvp and probably never will build it for that but even with the current set up in a 1v1 face to face situation this build can hold its own for the most part essentially melt them before they can melt you

[subtle bluff]

Naw I get the reason for using it.

[cloud laurel]

I’m too squishy without my AR!

[subtle bluff]

I've played many different builds and styles. So I do get it.

[lament reef]

you don’t have ninjabike, so that already puts you worlds ahead of most “check out my build!” people

[subtle bluff]

I've done the backfire thing in leggo I just don't like that it can be effective in CQB just as it's limits outside of that.

[cloud laurel]

Yep, totally agreed, sometime I’ve to chased them down just to kill because of SMG short range and it can be very annoying, such as in zoo or Roosevelt, unlike AR and LMG, can just snipe from long distance

[gentle lichen]

Again i get all that but what i'm trying to say is the build in dz should be more pvp oriented than pve cause the pve there is literally set to challenging which doesn't require huge investments into damage like obliterate for example you're way better off having an additional safety net like unbreakable
Sure it works for you against some people but when someone simply shrugs it off i'm trying to help maximise the chance of you killing them by making that "better" for pvp

But again we're talking about backfire which once you finish landmark or when you're doing an extraction 8/10 you'd be stackless so I wouldn't know anything about it

[subtle bluff]

I like to explain the difference between PVE and PVE is that there are many sources of damage coming in to you for PBE and for PVP there's a less sources that do more damage

[gentle lichen]

PBE?

[subtle bluff]

Pve

[gentle lichen]

Ahh

[subtle bluff]

Voice to text. Sorry.

[cloud laurel]

Long before striker were buffed, I’ve use HF fully blue core with AR and memento plus belstone. Run in dz for daily and got jumped by players so yeah unbreakable it’s really good but like he said it’s not for dz.

[rich lotus]

Thats fair, i didnt see it that way, my go to DZ build is usually just a simple 4 blue core 2 red core build with striker’s, unbreakable, and catharsis, the build i was showcasing is the build i use for farming landmarks and exotics in the DZ, i usually try to avoid pvp as much as possible while using it, if a pvp encounter is imminent and if i have enough time then i’ll switch from the backfire build to my DZ build but i am sure the backfire build would benefit with more survivability in the DZ i just never thought to try it

[gentle lichen]

I mean guy showed a pvp clip granted they said they wouldn't use it again but then say in a 1v1 trade it'd win?
Lots of intricacies to take into account when a build has 4 things to stack

[gentle lichen]

Don't take it as a rule but usually the more upfront damage you can have with your build the less chance you'll get jumped when you're running around or clearing
That and environmental awareness as well as checking nearby

Striker though is way easier to stack than a backfire though so that cath setups is good

[rich lotus]

Strikers is easier to maintain stacks yeah, but they’ll both stack at the same time and at the same speed, to go back to the build since the backfire got a buff with each hit you’re getting three things stacking, with each hit you’re getting +2% crit hit damage from the backfire, +0.65% weapon damage from striker’s and +1% crit hit damage from obliterate, you’re essentially getting +3.65% damage with each hit with the backfire build if you put all of that together

[gentle lichen]

well to start things off those are different things
crit damage will add to itself
obliterate and striker will be added to the TWD bucket
it's not exactly 3.65% as you'd think

and with striker you can just acs a couple enemies and boom full stacks as opposed to using an smg that will contiuously do more damage which would equal less stacking once you get on the higher echelons of damage

oh and also obliterate doesn't give crit damage it gives total weapon damage on crit not on hit like the other 2

[rich lotus]

Oh yeah you’re right i get those swapped around all the time lol but yeah idk i like my stacking damages, having 3-4 things stack at once tickles my brain, the build isnt at its max potential but i’m quite happy with where its at, i wanna start experimenting with the ravenous now that i finally got it

[deep jackal]

with Striker assuming I am CHC capped, what is the best stat for smg - CHD, Health Damage or DttoC ?

[solar sable]

dtoc

you dont actually have to hit the CHC cap but as close as you can with a 1:2 ratio (CHC/CHD) if possible

[strong cave]

As long as you hit around 50-56% CHC you're good. Dump the rest in damage

[hexed steppe]

if fine tuning your chc/chd just chc x chd for each possible ratio and go with the highest

[subtle bluff]

You missed the other night where I went into math of CHC and CHD amounts. It's really actually to what the locals said.

[edgy vault]

How much critical chance is optimal? for a Heartbreaker AR build?

Currently at 43% crit using the mask that gives 8% crit, Thinking of switching it out for Umbra since it gives 15% Crit chance (I use Ninja messenger). I can probably squeeze out more crit if I swap out my belstone holster (I'm going for an all rounder build).

I think i'll swap out my holster for Unit Alloy once it comes out and swap one of the attributes for a maxed roll armor regen stat instead

[onyx sage]

you want to hit 60% with coyote mid buff (so it would say 50% in stats screen)

crit is everything for heartbreaker, and don't use ninjabike bag if you want to reach optimal

[edgy vault]

Normal is fine enough for me, I use ninja as my main anyways

just enough to not get yelled at in heroic missions would be fine XD

[onyx sage]

also there's not really an "all-around" build that can dps tbh, if you want to survive as a dps you just kill faster so you don't get overwhelmed

no one would really yell at you in heroic tbh

[edgy vault]

I'm using Ceska/Heartbreaker/Ninja/Belstone currently

[astral kraken]

yea unless it's a rare rager most ppl don't care what you do in heroic

[edgy vault]

gonna swap out Ceska for Umbra and Belstone for Unit Alloy

[onyx sage]

you're not really losing much going for coyote and ceska backpack here, the survivability gain is a trap

[edgy vault]

4925 Armor regen is good enough for me

[astral kraken]

i run all of my wacky builds in heroic and never had a problem

[edgy vault]

I use the reinforcer chem and striker drone

[onyx sage]

nah don't just go for 1p umbra to use ninja, you're losing an attribute

[edgy vault]

Any recommendations?

[onyx sage]

just keep the ceska

[hexed steppe]

whens the last time you lowered yourself to a heroic mission?

[edgy vault]

My build is 43% currently

[grand girder]

a blind person can run heroic lol (not hating btw)

[hexed steppe]

🐐

[onyx sage]

does your gun have chc mods?

[edgy vault]

yep

[onyx sage]

like 3 5% mods?

[edgy vault]

What should I swap out my Belstone for?

2 because of linked laser pointer

[hexed steppe]

oh hb?

[onyx sage]

ah yeah forgot, and you should have grupo instead of belstone

[edgy vault]

yeah

alright I'll swap out for Grupo and use Armor Regen as a roll for it

Should I swap to alloy once it releases?

[onyx sage]

pls don't... you'd rather keep the belstone if you really want to minmax the armor regen

[edgy vault]

Reinforcer Chem it is then

[onyx sage]

1% from belstone is bigger than 4925 and that 4925 doesn't scale with your max armor

[hexed steppe]

ninja bag?

[edgy vault]

yeah

[onyx sage]

when i had to play it to unlock master

[hexed steppe]

go memento if looking for survivability

[edgy vault]

wait isn't Grupo CHD?

[hexed steppe]

dont ninja, its a trap

[grand girder]

yes and explosive damage in 2nd slot

ninja's talent gives a false sense of worth

[hexed steppe]

ide also say dont hb because its also a trap

[edgy vault]

I need to reach 50% CHC though no?

or is Ceska the only brand with CHC as a bonus

[onyx sage]

yes

[edgy vault]

OOOF

[grand girder]

he might be wanting to try something different tho, some people have different goals other than hypermax dmg builds

[onyx sage]

for 1p anyway

prov has 2p also 8% chc

[edgy vault]

Then what about Grupo vs Unit alloy?

[grand girder]

sokolov aswell but who tf uses 3pc sok 🤣

[hexed steppe]

look at the rest of the build... its about survivability if using hb and bellstone.. memento achieves this better and isnt really maxed out meta... just a better trade... also supports shield

like way way better

[grand girder]

oh yeah fs but some people just like trying other stuff even if its a little worse off (my brother for example)

[hexed steppe]

i would be saying ceska vigilance and overdogs if it was a max out damage suggestion

most people dont really understand memento either so its good to highlight sometimes

[grand girder]

true i weirdly barely see it used compared to ninjas which is mind blowing to me

[hexed steppe]

i sense a copy pasta incoming

Memento is the hardest working single piece in the game.

For me, I look at all it does. Cores and long buff only (at full stacks) represent:

• 45% weapon damage
• 2 shield tiers
• free armor and skill core
• 30% skill damage
• 30% status effects
• 30% skill duration
• 30% skill health
• 30% skill haste
• 30% skill repair
  -# skill buckets™️
• 3% armor regen

Short buff adds core dependant buff and are a nice bonus but dont factor in to my reasoning for usage because its inconsistent unless always cqb when killing

[astral kraken]

that reads like a list of debuffs

hardest working backpack in the game... working against you

[hexed steppe]

hush if you want a werther's original later 👴

[grand girder]

I got dumpstered in the dz by a dude running memento cause he had max stacks, I dropped like a potato sack

[hexed steppe]

grandpa dont like backtalk

[astral kraken]

i dont go into the dz but when do it's with a blb. no one can mess with me... once.

[grand girder]

lmao locked n ready unless you whiff the shot

[astral kraken]

no i switch to an ar

and ad clear with blb

[grand girder]

yeah but what if they strafe over n over?

[hexed steppe]

better 😉

[astral kraken]

sir i cut my teeth in division 1 chicken dancing

[grand girder]

I see well played sir

is there anything that can beat umbra in dz? just curious don't play it much

but my usual catharsis bighorn regen build didnt do shit

[hexed steppe]

d1 dz was 👨‍🍳 🤌

[kindred mango]

for sure. The lack of vertical fighting in TD2 was a miss

[onyx sage]

i'm too poor to afford armor

[kindred mango]

Lower DZ for pvp and the farmers could go up north for sneaky farming

[buoyant perch]

Best I can do is negative armor

[agile citrus]

before I found HF, I thought my hc was gonna go striker. nuh uh. memento, hf x 4 and hh 1 headshot providence, 2 explosive defence and 3 hazpro, backfire. all blue

pfe of course

sr-1 and mariokart pistol, and gunner. possibly survialist, cuz... heal companion.. dont judge me, hes cute

[hazy steeple]

Who or what is a "mariokart pistol"?

And are you using an MMR as your main weapon on a build that requires you to be within 15m?

[agile citrus]

I feel at this point repeating that hh chest doesnt use the rest of the set will inevitably be forgotten in 1 day

[hazy steeple]

Why use HF if you aren't taking advantage of what it gives you?

[agile citrus]

the sr-1 will enable the hf to quick farm, with 1 tap

I want to explain how having fun in games isnt about optimal... but it just... never sticks

[hazy steeple]

There is a difference between optimal, and just wasting your own time because you are playing against what an item does.

[agile citrus]

also, the only thing mmr will lose is the disorient, the dmg apmp, which it doesnt use, and the smg dmg buff

I dunno. its pointless to explain how I have fun.

[hazy steeple]

Just saying "i have fun" does not mean that your build is beyond discussion.
this channel is called "build advice", if you talk about your builds in here, expect them to be picked over.

[agile citrus]

we had this exact convo like... 5 days ago.

Im not mad, Im not even disagreeing with you.

[hazy steeple]

If I remembered everyone I talked to on here, I'd go crazy.

[obtuse crystal]

are you using hunters fury for the aok only or did i read that wrong

[subtle bluff]

I see too many msg in between you and…

[analog mural]

guys is it ok if use lmgs with tinkerer and strikers

[grand girder]

nah its forbidden by the devs mate!

[agile citrus]

the point of hh, is the dmg drop is minimal, due to hh buffing your final hs bullet, to next enemy. yeh obl would do more. but obliterate cant do 17m a bullet. I just despise howswapping.

[obtuse crystal]

yeah go ahead if you want to

[subtle bluff]

Of course. I don’t it’s as good as other choices.

[agile citrus]

its a normal HF with backfire. I just have a 1 tap sniper as a side arm

[analog mural]

aw shucks

now that i finally used lmgs, i can see why its fun to spray bullets

[hazy steeple]

The issue is not using obliterate vs HH, the issue is that your build is 2 builds that ran into each other very fast and have fused into what someone might refer to as "looking like a bloodborne boss".

[agile citrus]

whys it an issue?

[grand girder]

its not but why do you mention it every other day?

[agile citrus]

I read that, then got super confused

[grand girder]

we get it like convos been had yet it still comes up

[agile citrus]

it was a post about hardcore and hf

[subtle bluff]

I don’t see why he just doesn’t run Striker DCH w/orbit

[agile citrus]

you realise its literally 1 talent. and the only reason it gets talked about is cuz everytime someone hears it, people start talking about it. I genuinely mentioned it only cuz hf chest sux

[agile citrus]

thats uh, my other build -_-

[hexed steppe]

is this a hhhf build

being discussed

[hazy steeple]

It's a HF+mmr setup, because "it doesn't matter", i think was the reason.

[hexed steppe]

thats an established meta use

[agile citrus]

I made a post that now I had found hf its my new hardcore

[hexed steppe]

make the most of it with a shotgun as well. @onyx sage uses hhhf a ton and can give best build i think.

[agile citrus]

then riven wanted to know about the hh and crylo started saying hh chest I bring up all the time. Im now confused for new reasons

[hexed steppe]

white death/m870 or like glue/ regulus or determined harvest

[hazy steeple]

You brought up the headhunter chest first, which is why I was confused about it.

[agile citrus]

with all blue on chall it hits i think 9m

which is more than enough

[hexed steppe]

this is for hc, right

[hazy steeple]

Right here, you can see why we're confused.

[agile citrus]

mhm. all blue, 3 hzpro, 2 explosive, 1 headshot, providence, survalist, cuz pet, sr-1 and backfire, 3 pfe and 4 hf memento

[agile citrus]

its cuz you and I had that convo like 5 days ago

[hazy steeple]

There's 135, 000 people in this server.

[hexed steppe]

lean into shotgun as secondary. it can take advantage of hh and only neads a pellet to land head to 1shot

[hazy steeple]

I'm good, but I'm not that good.

[umbral forge]

yet some are used to target people

[agile citrus]

your all good lol, I just figured if I explained again, itd be forgotten

[hexed steppe]

ai needs an upgrade

[hazy steeple]

Running on Vista, baby

[analog mural]

ssd and ram upgrade seems like

OS too

[agile citrus]

EEWWDHJKLFGDSKLHJF windows vista

I miss win 10. and win 7. theyll take control panel over my cold ded pc

[gentle lichen]

how is it even maintained

didn't they discontinue 10 like a few months ago

[agile citrus]

you can still use old versions, just no new updates

[hazy steeple]

never underestimate the hardheadedness of nerds who refuse to adapt

[agile citrus]

I think tho, theyv actually gutted lower than 7, not sure

[grand girder]

I still remember when my win 7 pc broke and i had to get a win 10 one :/ sad times

[hexed steppe]

this is me. i only upgraded to 10 like 1.5 year ago

[hazy steeple]

my PC literally caught fire, so I was somewhat motivated to upgrade before that.

[hexed steppe]

im sure ill be forced to 11 eventually tho

[hazy steeple]

12 is next year.
it's coming for you 👻

[hexed steppe]

ik ik, but back to builds... everyone knows and agrees mortar build is best build

[grand girder]

cant wait for a 100% ai coded OS that'll be fun

[hexed steppe]

[grand girder]

every update is either a fun surprise or a congrats your shits cooked surprise

[hazy steeple]

as an AI built entirely out of a redundant operating system: 'deck is right, back to the builds.

deck', sell me on a mortar build.
pretend I'm one of those striker nerds.

[agile citrus]

I need salvo like I need water

[umbral forge]

I like stalking, and this statement is indeed wrong. I've seen people getting targeted and some others get suppressed for stupid reasons.

[hexed steppe]

these things sell themselves 🔥

lurk mode should stay on... js

[agile citrus]

Im not sure, targeting another, mod aside is a wise idea. Even tho I often stand up for myself, and argue I generally dont lean on people

js

[gentle lichen]

Everyone's just a little pfp with a silly name why do too much

[subtle bluff]

I step away for a min and what’s this OS now?

[agile citrus]

CAN WE TALK ABOUT YOUR PFP

LIKE

[gentle lichen]

I mean he's hot
-# I didn't say that though

Back to builds please now

[grand girder]

pretty sure you just beat local saying this lmaooo

[agile citrus]

chow escaped from faster than furious, Im a dumas, local looks like cartoon slenderman, rivens the pride rogue, meanwhile I really hope a relative hopefully under 5 made yours

[hexed steppe]

this channel is for builds, including discussion and challenges in good faith. its about advancing build theories, not picking bones

grandpa is slow at typing

probably save it dude

js

[umbral forge]

don't worry

[gentle lichen]

It's rouxls from deltarune if you really wanna know

[agile citrus]

starts googleing

[gentle lichen]

Anyway

[hexed steppe]

best mortar in the game too*

[onyx sage]

my fav gun for bleed

[grand girder]

personally I prefer this

[gentle lichen]

Did you know i proc my od from reg bleed

[solar sable]

what the hell 😂

[analog mural]

that gun would probably blow up in ur face

[grand girder]

nuh uh

[gentle lichen]

I see the tactic stab and shoot

[hexed steppe]

chainfire ftw

[analog mural]

wait lowkey, regulus 2

and td2's exotic weapon designs

[subtle bluff]

You ppl… and not building…

[agile citrus]

smiles maicliously but do you want to know about regulus ar? needs like... 5? headshot?

glares I saw that

[hazy steeple]

Just a small heads up: don't use the types in italics to indicate an action thing, it always comes across as a bit weird to people.

[grand girder]

gulps nervously

[agile citrus]

uh. sure.

[grand girder]

mb

[agile citrus]

this is super new info and Iv been online socializing for 25 years.
must be a new age thing

[hazy steeple]

Someone in my old des2 clan got booted for doing it, was honestly quite funny at the time.

[grand girder]

I mean if you do it in a weirdo way I could see that, depends on context tho

[hazy steeple]

It is very much not a new age thing, it's something we used to mock people for 15 years ago.

[gentle lichen]

Italics and discord have a really poor relationship due to reasons i won't discuss

[agile citrus]

something you used to

dont make this an us

[hazy steeple]

nah it's just one of those internet things.
Anyway, back to the builds.

[cloud laurel]

This build 1 shot everything in leg by using glitch

[fringe oak]

Can I get Hunter Killer from countdown

[obtuse crystal]

nope youll need to do the new york hunters to get the hunter killer

[subtle bluff]

Idk how many times I’ve said it this week..

[cloud laurel]

He shot everything before they’re spawn lol

[subtle bluff]

If you’re trying to get it because go for it but if it’s for a build the normal one is better.

[subtle bluff]

Let’s plz not talk about glitch’s or bugs/expo

[cloud laurel]

@subtle bluff how to glitch with tempest?

[subtle bluff]

We don’t talk about it here…

Part of the rules too.

[cloud laurel]

He invited me to DUA leg and he shot everything

[subtle bluff]

I know the both bugs.

[cloud laurel]

Oh okay my bad

[subtle bluff]

It’s fine I just hate spreading it but ya for yourself too.

[cloud laurel]

I hate glitch or w.e didn’t know the rules and don’t wanna know either

I asked because I thought you didn’t know or known of it and can verify it’s true or not

[subtle bluff]

I’ve known for a bit.

I’m a speeder so I find things or learn about them. Anyhoo.

[fringe oak]

@subtle bluff why you say the regular one is better?

[subtle bluff]

The difference between the P. And the normal one is very lil so a better brandset bonus will do you better.

[shy willow]

Only time hunter killer would be better would be if you're going Golan anyway so predominantly pvp

[fringe oak]

Gotcha. Thx. For the info.

Probably why I don't have if after all these years.

[hazy steeple]

Well, Hunter Killer does require you to complete the WONY hunters and open their cache, so it's not just an RNG thing.

[wraith zealot]

or get lucky with stretch goals cache.

[hazy steeple]

It's still worth doing the WONY hunters, as that adds it to Cassie's store,.

same with shield splinterer

[frozen hull]

I still need to finish the wony ones and all of Brooklyn. Gonna have to hit up lfg chat soon

[hazy steeple]

Just a fair warning: a lot of the WONY hunters are in DC.
It's best if you look up a guide.

[frozen hull]

Yeah I know .. honestly I’m just gonna look for a group to make it easier. Thank you tho

[agile citrus]

normaly I believe 60% cc for "cd multiplier" but I think 57.x is enough imo. this is a build with all crit dmg, no crit cyhance except backfire, watch

I could add a cc, but it would drop the chd to 130, and only add >3%

[hearty pulsar]

Sup, need some advice. Think its a good idea to focus on a higher CHC or Weapon damage now? Using Pestilence & Lexington but usually use Elmo & another secondary, normally Lefty or An LMG.

[agile citrus]

this doesnt show your set bonus btw. from available info, it just looks like a improvised 6 pieces

[hearty pulsar]

how do i set the gear set/brand? not sure how

only got the bag last night

[agile citrus]

so. ninjabike is weird. it tends to only work on hybrid builds, and hybrid builds are rarely optimal

the reason is because it takes the backpack slot which 9 times out of tejn is your big deep slot. and ninja bike isnt dmg

[hearty pulsar]

practically every build i see is usually ninja bag, coyote or momento

[agile citrus]

in theory, it give dmg through slots, but at the end of the its the backpack talent thats the real dmg. its a weird delimma

[hearty pulsar]

would vile be a good option for a pesti?

[agile citrus]

pestilence isnt a status, its weapon dmg. its talent, wont proc vile

there is a build for pesti in the build hgub, the pinned message

its exetremely long unicorn build, but you can just use any all red and keep in mind what buffs pesti is red cores, lmg dmg and "amp" glass cannon, dtooc, overdogs etc

crit and striker dont buff its dot, but they do, do good gun dmg. until you get the unicorn 2.5m pesti dot. which requires a very specific brand that crafts or drop blue, which also unironically means its attributes are blue or yellow 99% of the time curse in lootershooter

[hearty pulsar]

think exodus is a good option instead of unbreakable?

[agile citrus]

unbreakble is more pvp. its extremely defencsive. no dmg. it the same issue as NB in that it steal your dig deeps talent slot

[hearty pulsar]

any idea if weapon damage should be focused on more than chc?

[agile citrus]

on a weird note, I just found a timing for backfire relaod that even in combat dodges the bleed. its not optimal but it exists. you have to weapon swap just as the load almost finishs

[agile citrus]

pesti is buffed by amp, weapon dmg, lmg dmg

your chd wont affect it

[patent fossil]

Best to just check the build guides in the spreadsheet, they're already optimised for best performance

[astral kraken]

This is one of the reasons the ninja bag is disliked. The bag itself is not that great. It can be good in very very specific and rare cases. But it's pretty much always the suboptimal choice.

The reason you see it so often on Youtube and other places is it allows people to create "unique" builds and call it their own. Ninja bag unlocks 2-3pc brand bonuses so there's a lot of different brands you can slot in to create. Some people want the recognition of creating their own builds (for clicks or other reasons) and ninja bag allows them to do it. Obviously Joe Shmoe youtuber would love it if people said "Joe Shmoe's Striker Build" so that's what they aim for.

Anyway like Kettle said just follow the build guides. They're solid.

[hearty pulsar]

out of curiosity, last weekend's raid, one of our members mentioned an damage to armor build. think it could work?

[astral kraken]

Not really. There aren't a lot of DtH sources and most of the time you're better off with putting other things there like damage to target out of cover.

Some enemies (warhounds, chungas) aren't affected by damage to armor.

[agile citrus]

the only uses Iv ever truely found for ninja bike is nb/2 yaahl/ceska/cavlier/(insert usable defcensive chest) thisi s a 100% pulse and hazpro pvp. hotshot with ninja bike can work for 1 shot. yellow striker blends well with it, and lastly... Im not sure but my teoritcal salvo use might work we will see.

and im a fan of "offmeta" or fun builds

I think they may have reworked yaahl so hazrpo is earlier. I vaguely remember rebuilding this one, but it was a while and Im not going remake (I deleted its loadout)

[subtle bluff]

On YouTube I'd assume.

[hearty pulsar]

not just there, reddit and the fb group

[subtle bluff]

Oh god.. Those are worse.... Some youtube at least know the meta.

But I'm also pretty sure you've seen what the basic Striker build can do right?

[hearty pulsar]

been using that with usually one piece for armor regen for some survivability at least

[analog mural]

is ceska generally the better piece to use when you have that 1 spare armor/backpack slot for crit builds?

[subtle bluff]

Regen stats or brandset?

[hearty pulsar]

just the talent on whatever set i have with the most armor

[subtle bluff]

We may have a misunderstanding here.
Is it a Brandset bonus?
Talents are chest, BP, exo, etc.

Or could you just SS the build?

[hearty pulsar]

ss?

[gentle lichen]

Screenshot

[agile citrus]

chow fighting the fundmental urge to not repeat, and his mouse slides the the hot key forward message of basic striker gameplay

jk ❤️

[agile citrus]

belstone can guve some general regen and its not a chest or bp talent. it give 1% passive regen as its equipt talent

[subtle bluff]

Ok ty ya there a lot to go over here.

[gentle lichen]

Well for starters what are you benefitting from using the mask?

[subtle bluff]

Follow the chest here and gunner. For said reasons.

[agile citrus]

you need at least 2 set pieces to get the first talent
you need 4 to get a set bonus which is usually most of a builds dmg
those gloves over survability, if you want that just understand they take "exo" slot, for a armor reset. the xo slot often gives a good boost to multiple stats. that one give.. an armor kit

[subtle bluff]

If you watch the start of the video watch my armor.

[agile citrus]

LOL

Im getting food omg

[analog mural]

if im using tinkerer on HB with an lmg, should i use flatline + fast hands or flatline + frenzy?

[buoyant perch]

There's no right or wrong answer. Fast hand improves sustained dps and a great QOL for LMG. Frenzy is the highest burst damage talent but it's inconsistent.

[hearty pulsar]

already using 4 strikers, someone on fb i think mentioned exodus acts like a fake unbreakable

[subtle bluff]

Exo are fine.

[agile citrus]

unbreakble is... if you like it, and you play in a way that it gets a ton of use. I have no objection. I have things on my builds that specificaly meld with my playstyle and support where Im weak. (points RIGHT at my level 30 demo drone) exo gear is a hard choice, as they are often asymmetric to the build, so make sure you use the thing that gets the most use

[analog mural]

got it, i guess ill just do fast hands for consistency coz i alr got flatline for damage boost

[agile citrus]

my rule when it comes to munny and rl stuff, is if I use it every month its worth keeping. if I use 1-2 times a year and its not a gift, rent or cheap buy then toss is better. minimalist way of life

Im still waiting for val to let us sell back our yr 1-4 skins for store credit. Ill take 100 vp per if it means my collection wont fill 9 bunkers but only use about 4 skins types. at least they finally made a sorting that kinda maybe doesnt rate -2 on 1-10, theres a 1, and then theres a, this "works" but is so poorly made its more effort to use than not. thus -2

[patent fossil]

Your mask is tipping point, not strikers

[subtle bluff]

I'm blind.

[agile citrus]

hes prob doing what I do. took the screenshot after putting the build on, either the piece was wrong for some dumb reason, or the mask was in inventory

[hearty pulsar]

oh crap yeah forgot when i removed ninja

[agile citrus]

@subtle bluff I know Im behind the times shhh but why is HF backfire not the meta over hazpro striker? was this a thing about the hzpr mod?

the synergy is really strong

[astral kraken]

pretty sure when backfire striker is used in a meta context it's without hazpro

[agile citrus]

it even synergizes with mariokart pistol. cuz your goona lose the stacks anyway

between rooms

[gentle lichen]

I'm starting to lean more on dynamic talents over fixed ones like optimist or measured cause of quickstep

Sometimes i would even ditch exotic stacks like bighorn's or pestilence in favour of running faster

[analog mural]

im thinking if you have to specifically build for bleed haz pro, ur dealing the same damage as a regular smg or ouroboros (but thats clearly an outlier)

[agile citrus]

I would imagine those are better for "no stack" cuz of the short stack value. bh 25 vs backfire 100, or pesti and blue screens effect being useable even at 20 or half. but thats just how I use them. its why I DESPISE cham ramp up

I also finally learned what this is for. its for big ass manning rooms, with consistent spawns, but not sniper drone without cd for normal pulkse (bad for new spawns)

[gentle lichen]

I use it in dz south stairs cause devs don't know how to fix lighting

[static ermine]

Don’t quote me, but Backfire is only really useful on full red DPS builds. The damage you lose with Hazpro makes you better off with some other DPS build, tbh.

[gentle lichen]

At least you won't get disoriented when you pop a hyena's canister

[agile citrus]

sorta. this isnt true on hb or striker. you end up with a spray of 1.2/3m its actually decent for an smg

@gentle lichen I love MarioK pistol on od, such a good synergy

with scorpio

and lex

crap. I just changed my own mind. swapping from hf BF to OD sc/lex

[agile citrus]

I am a massive advocate of "blue cores" but I never really mentioned I only believe this is good if you use memento. and the only reason memeto makes this different is short term buff bonus armor... imo

[subtle bluff]

It's more that it's the most powerful when used that way.

[agile citrus]

wait. WHY the F did I think that said blue cores.

Im soooooooooo dum

right, the hzpr is just kinda pointless. you dont lose that much from bleed

Im 90% sure gunner regens it all

[static ermine]

Indeed, I‘m talking about max dps. And backfire really shines if u hit these insane numbers. It trivializes content like incursions

[subtle bluff]

I need to make a new video hazpro striker bf vs just a strikers

[subtle bluff]

The one that's used in incursion is the highest dps build in the game.

[agile citrus]

btw... the reason backfire "trivializes" incursion should be pointed out. in incursion you likely have an fi, or od. backfire even in full red, all crit dmg like mine only hits about 1.6m this is because of crit dmg soft cap. its very psuedo

you might get it higher outside of incursion with gc etc, but likely not much. and elmo already hits 1.8m per crit, without team. be careful of "soft cap" psuedo effects. what looks broken doesnt always translate

higher than I thought, but Id still take elmo 1.8m

[analog mural]

im guessing u alr have enough chc/chd if fox kneepad is used here

but im not sure if fox kneepad should be used if u dont use rifle to begin with

[agile citrus]

10% weapon buff rarely matter. but dtooc is far stronger (pesti exception) souless taught me this when he added fp to my heartbreaker as its og version had ceska

and long ago, I used to use fenris, over time I lerarned "10% x weapon buff" rarely scaled as well as crit chance or dtooc

[analog mural]

i read somewhere in the builds guide, essentially u only use contractors/fox when you dont need to sack any other slots for chc/chd

i think in this case here i think u alr have enough chc with backfire soo fox is ok i guess

[agile citrus]

1 cc with BF puts you at 57.5 ish

[analog mural]

i guess thats more than enough

[patent fossil]

Yeah bf adds a huge volume of chc and chd, making those stats less valuable on gear (beyond making sure you reach 60% chc)

[analog mural]

crazy stats ayo

[patent fossil]

Because you've got a lot of chd, it's definitely worth hitting 60% chc or you're giving up quite a lot of potential damage on those extra non crits

[analog mural]

wait how much dps can u do at 200 stacks with backfire?

[agile citrus]

I dont use these builds unless Im doing raiding or the rmm/shep is uh... struggling? 2m per bullet is enough to 2 tap a lego red. in 4x

multply that by 1139 rof

[analog mural]

generally speaking, if my build is not crit focused like TS or ND then i should just aim for >55% chc right

[patent fossil]

It depends, the general rule (when switching chc mods/rolls for chd ones) is to multiply the two values together for each option and see which gives you the highest value

[subtle bluff]

The most of what makes a DPS dmg is crits.

[agile citrus]

I use a consistent formula for all my build, cuz I see the games stats and effect differently than most.
if you build has a crit modifier, get as close to 60% without going over. if it doesnt get as close to 50%. never go below 40% and preferable not below 45%

[analog mural]

im trying to not overcap my chc too much esp when ik a teammate is running coyote

[patent fossil]

If you've got eg 57 chc and 160 chd it might be worth swapping a chd to chc. If it's only 120 chd then it probably wouldn't be worth swapping. Just have to do the math.

[analog mural]

see now idk the best option coz sometimes 50% with coyotes is nice and other times 55% with coyotes is good coz ur likely fighting in close range anyways

[agile citrus]

imo its a bad idea to mold your builds around rmm, but an easy way to do this is make all your mods cc. this lets you hotswap without tinkering

[patent fossil]

You can also avoid over capping by swapping chc/chd weapon mods around as well to try and get it to add up better

[subtle bluff]

Even then it's not bad to be at the cap for the close buff.

[analog mural]

i mean if its countdown im fighting in close range 24/7 and if its legendary im most likely at mid range 🤔

[agile citrus]

because the soft cap of crit is around 13-140, as long as you hit that, going 60% crit, or allowing coyote to get you there isnt terrible. I personaly despise coyote due to its effect not being 100% consistent. I hate all micromanging distance effects

[subtle bluff]

If you want to see your dps and the change of your crit, use the DPS calculator in the pinned messages.

[analog mural]

my OCD ass thinking like "now if in that one encounter where i happened to be in mid range, i would be overcapping my chc and the 5% chc could have been 10% chd" lol

it probably not significant tho

[patent fossil]

I think soft cap is a misleading term, diminishing returns scale linearly as your stats go up, there's no sudden switching point where it goes from 'worth it' to 'not worth it'

It's always a question of what are you trading off against it

[analog mural]

omg its john division builds in the chat

[urban latch]

The reason the backfire is so strong is because of the long engagements, allowing you to reach max stacks and stay there for the whole fight, not any other buffs your getting.

There's also so soft crit cap

[agile citrus]

right. I should be specific if people arent familiar with DR
usually you always want to hit DR, or dimishing returns. this is also known ass soft cap. a hard cap is 60% crit chance, you cant go over a soft cap is a number where each point stops giving the optimal % buff. in div two, this is around 130-140% crit chance. after this each point you gain will give less than before. the higher you go, the lower the payout. this is why backfire only hits 2m, at... like 350% crit dmg

[urban latch]

Soft cap is a term that means something, and it doesn't apply here

Nothing special happens around 130-140%

[patent fossil]

Diminishing returns start from 2%

[agile citrus]

?

[gentle lichen]

Think of softcap like dark souls making scaling weapons get less damage the more points you put into certain attributes

Scale would eventually stagnate instead of rise

[agile citrus]

it does have a much lower point but not only does everyone at 1k shd watch hit this, but its not imo visually noticable. but yes there is a more exact answer

[urban latch]

A soft cap would imply that at that soft cap the amount of gains your receiving changes at that point. You keep saying a soft cap at 130-140% like something happens there, but nothing does

[gentle lichen]

Billions must reach 200%+ chd

[agile citrus]

I will be specific and exact. in my experience, I notice visual a drop in crit dmg per point after 140%, yes its earlier than this, but my builds are designed to give a visualy appealing combat value. videogames are hugely math based, which there are huge amount of math consistencies. but I tend to describe things from a visual perspective as your average players understand that more than a spreadsheet

[urban latch]

Ok, but you are clearly wrong here

[agile citrus]

can you explian how I dont see a visual drop in +140% crit dmg?

[urban latch]

To the point of spreading misinformation because you don't know what your talking about

[subtle bluff]

Oh noes do I need to start clicking to see..

[urban latch]

I can't explain why your seeing ghosts, nothing changes at 140%

[gentle lichen]

1% chd is always gonna be 1% chd it's just that when you compare adding 1% to another 1% and notice you basically double your chd as opposed to adding 1% chd to 100% and notice you only got ~1% increase

[agile citrus]

Im curious. as always, I am definitly worng posibly. you say I am wrong that I visualy say after 140% I notice a difference. in fact you say this is so wrong its misleading.

if you can show this Im listening. keep in mind the way I learn videogames is through minicule visual inconstencies. this is why my build work with 0 math done.

[scenic whale]

Wouldn’t a soft cap imply investing in crit damage past 140 would yield you say 5% even if the game says it’s 12. Not even actual gains the game physically limits you from getting any more than the shown number of 5

Diminishing returns exist they’re not really the same thing as a soft cap

[urban latch]

Ok well we are taking about math here, you don't get to make a math claim without doing/understanding the math

[urban latch]

YES

[agile citrus]

it tends to be signacantly lewss than a 6% drop, specially that close to the visual notice. in theory, sure, but its refered to as soft cap cuz its hardly noticable

[scenic whale]

Soft cap is like when the game for whatever reason forces a significant diminishing return upon you even if it breaks the rules of how the math itself should work

[agile citrus]

but Im not giving a math claim. I said from the start "visual"

[urban latch]

And that is why your incorrect and not understanding what's going on

[agile citrus]

I used 140 as the number cuz after I hit 152, I notice a differnce

[scenic whale]

The number isn’t really relevant here, going from say 86% crit damage to 100% crit damage is an actual gain of like 7% something. But I did in fact go from 86 to 100. A soft cap would be me going from 86 to 93 despite slotting in a 14

So my actual gain is even worse than the actual 14

[agile citrus]

usually soft caps dont show on the stat screen

its a hidden value in games generaly

[gentle lichen]

Numerically speaking every 1% chd say adds 1k to your damage
This will ALWAYS be fixed and won't change
There's no reason why it would suddenly drop down after reaching a certain breakpoint

[scenic whale]

I mean you can plug it in the calculator then slap something in the range, I can’t say I’ve ever seen soft caps and I operate around 160+ cause this game doesn’t really offer me anything else to slot

I also have 140 builds and my damage reduction for being at 140 also checks out with the Calc math (my meme builds)

This games funny with all the bugs but it do get numbers shockingly right and consistent

[agile citrus]

I mean its fine. maybe its in my head. 350% of backfire on full striker is maybe 2m

I dont do math, so maybe Im delusional, gonna drop it

[scenic whale]

Hey 200% and 90% TWD is fat

And if you have seasonal modifiers on 2M is pretty easy

[agile citrus]

I dont use modifiers. Iv said this prob 15 times realistically. they are dum

[gentle lichen]

I just realised zealot is flat out damage immunity like what

[scenic whale]

Isn’t it great

Flat damage immunity + flat weapon damage + a 10 mil AoE explosion that revives you

[gentle lichen]

I felt like i activated a cheat from a console

[agile citrus]

yup

[gentle lichen]

That shit was not fun at all

[agile citrus]

hence why some of us ignore them. actionreplay existed, not everyone had one

[gentle lichen]

To each their own obviously but for me it's a big yikes for me to just cheese leg like that

[analog mural]

i mean ive seen someone spamming emp and kills every BT in the room on leg

if that isnt the most broken thing ive seen in TD2, idk what else is

[static ermine]

It’s kinda TWD × Base Damage × WD × (CHD + HSD) × (sum of all DTA) × (sum of all DToC) × (sum of all DTH) × amp1 × amp2 × etc. So DToC should be better

[agile citrus]

likely using vile with HW, my duo has one for killing dogs

[analog mural]

uh huh but why vile with HW

[gentle lichen]

I love vile with jammer a friend of mine uses it and uses the float numbers damage to see players from walls in conflict

[agile citrus]

vile inflicts an additional dot, which apllies your grenade dmg, then gets multiplied by either increased grenade or status effect. using hw you can reset it and run a yellow core emp with all status effect

I dont know much about it but Iv seen it. skill builds arent my thing

[analog mural]

so lowkey just emp spam the whole room and they die from vile damage?

[gentle lichen]

Ticks are pretty low in damage tho

[agile citrus]

in theory? its not my thing as I said. but shes used it on rooms before and it was similar

[urban latch]

Ok heres a graph of whats going on. X axis is the crit damage. Y is the crit damage/(previous 10%). So this shows each 10% you gain, the actual difference it makes. This shows diminishing returns, but there is not "soft cap here". Its the same thing that happens in game

[agile citrus]

I dont know how high the tick goes either. I only know how vile work cuz my chungus build uses bluescreen when minigun is out of ammo

[agile citrus]

can you explain this. I am actually interested. but bad at math

the graph changes and Id like to know how its effect transfers to what we see

[urban latch]

Do you want an example from in game? Go get me damage numbers (WITHOUT CHANGING ANYTHING EXCEPT THE CRIT DAMAGE) with 100% CHD, 120%, 140%, and 160%. Doesn't have to be those exact numbers, just ballpark. We can calc the damage we would expect in game vs just straight what we would expect from math. I PROMISE the numbers will line up because MANY people have been calcing this for years

[broken edge]

not sure if i should intervene

but no crit damage doesnt have any cap

[urban latch]

If there was a soft cap we wouldn't be able to calculate damage numbers without knowing about the soft cap. But we absolutely can

[agile citrus]

I will when work is over. have 20 minutes. but Im really curious about this. I dont mind being proven wrong if it mean I learn from it. stuff to do

[broken edge]

the entire point of the last gear set is about getting absurd crit damage

same for umbra

it is an stat made to go really high without a cap

[lament reef]

for a bullet doing 100,000 damage, 100% chd does 200,000

put another chd mod in for a bullet doing 110% chd, that’s 210,000

that’s 5% more damage

but slotting fox’s for dtooc would give 8% more damage on your bullet instead of 5%

so it’s not capping but you are losing relative gain, is my understanding

[broken edge]

thank you person who posted math when i was too lazy

[lament reef]

and it’s even more of a relative gain when you consider crit uptime, where dtooc works on every shot but more chd only boosts your crits

[agile citrus]

I think I can ealisy be proven wrong, Im just terrible at math. starting crit dmg value, 100 stacks and my backfire stats

[scenic whale]

Think of it as like

[agile citrus]

end dmg value, headshot, vs named target

[scenic whale]

From 1 to 2 it’s a 100% gain,

From 2 to 3 it’s a 50% gain

From 3 to 4 it’s a 33% gain

This applies to crit and weapon damage mostly because they stack additively

If the addition is a constant static at its max you will always gain less and less of the value as you go higher

[gentle lichen]

I kept trying to say that but i guess i'll never be a teacher

[scenic whale]

Well bad wording I mean crit damage stacks additively with itself and so does red cores and all that

[agile citrus]

that explains what diminshing return is however Raucey posted that to prove after 140, I was wrong, and wrong enough to mislead.

[scenic whale]

Not crit damage and weapon damage stack’s addictively

Hence why expertise 30 doesn’t mean much, it’s 30% weapon damage stacked additively on top of 90% of your red cores

[urban latch]

diminishing returns is not a soft cap, those are two seperate things

[agile citrus]

I dont know, I looked up what soft cap mewans in mmo, and it said they are the same. Iv played mmos for 15? years, and soloish games for 25. Iv never personaly been told otherwise by anyone. and google will say otherwise as well

[gentle lichen]

Death by a thousand slop

[agile citrus]

I posted this for a POINT. you can say what you know, thats fine. just understand this is a point that the internet disagrees with

[urban latch]

This is just the AI google response for searching "soft cap in gaming"

[agile citrus]

you can face palm over and over. but if your going to do that, pls provide a source that say your perscetive and working is correct. cuz I have.

[urban latch]

Do not let a word calculator replace your critical thinking for you

[agile citrus]

https://cyberpost.co/what-does-soft-cap-and-hard-cap-mean-in-games/

[scenic whale]

To be fair all Elden ring players also refer to diminishing returns as soft caps. But in their case it’s more evident as the literal number increase goes down past a certain stat point

This case is just we’re adding the exact number to our current number but because of maths it’s diminishing regardless

[agile citrus]

I mean I could keep clicking every single link .this is well known info. just pls give your source. Im happy to be wrong its ... just Iv never heard this

this was elder scrolls,. this is "cyberpost" Im not calling you wrong. but you are claiming something with no backorund or source and Im not. Im asking you to give me something not heresay

[urban latch]

You could click the expand on your word calculator search and see this

[scenic whale]

What that link is referring to is the literal mechanic of

1-10 you gain 50 points of stat X
11-20 you gain 40 points
21-30 you gain 30 points

So on so forth, its an enforced reduction in stat gain but the rules of what we’re doing to crit damage also applies there just more evidently as you’re are suffering a VISIBLE decrease in the gain. Whereas with division it’s
Add X constant number and get less gains which is the fundamentals of diminishing returns

[agile citrus]

https://inspiredeconomist.com/articles/diminishing-returns/ 🤔

[urban latch]

This is an example of a soft cap in dark souls. In the exact same way as crit damage in division has diminishing returns, every increasing health point also give you dimishing returns. But there is a soft cap in addition to that. For ever stat point you invest you get a certain number of increased health points. But that amount increased changes right at level 30, and again at level 50. THAT is a soft cap

There is literally no example of a soft cap in division

[subtle bluff]

Why...... Is this still being confused.

[scenic whale]

I’m confused on how the principles of economics and production limitation comes into the argument of fundamental math here

[agile citrus]

so. this feels like semantics, but Im not trying to be right. Im trying to understand. I also feel like this info is so irrelvant, this will only ever mattert to someone who lives and breathes videogames or rl economics. but I am still.. sorta. curious why this matters so much your dieing on this hill

[analog mural]

this is so interesting to watch 🍿

[agile citrus]

wut a weird search.... does reduced returns not a real term? why did it auto correct and give nothing back

[urban latch]

I am trying to help you understand something you do not understand so that you will stop spreading misinformation

[gentle lichen]

I kinda just gave up after my 2 cents

[scenic whale]

Yeah cause you’re looking up a grossly simplified economics article to apply to basic math, economies of scale are way more complicated than that, most examples are misleading on purpose cause they say stuff like

1st worker makes 4
2nd worker makes 3

By doing that you’re already breaking rules of hold all else constant, it’s just kind of done to get the students through the course (also doesn’t help there’s 20+ different schools of economics that would argue otherwise)

[subtle bluff]

What's a better value:
1 dollar coin or a 100 pennies?

[analog mural]

1kg of feathers vs 1kg of steel

[agile citrus]

I dont know man. actually Im not going to bother anymore. cuz to find this term you gave everyone I had to "unselect" serach engine direct auto correct. you do you. not going to bring up again

you can call it soft cap, you can say its not diminishing returns. I wont bring it up again, so you win

[solar sable]

"but schteel is heavieRR than the featheRs"

[analog mural]

i can hear this sentence omg

[urban latch]

Im not trying to "win" here, im trying to help you understand which you still dont

[gentle lichen]

Don't disrespect the scots

[solar sable]

I don't, I have a scot friend somewhere 😂

[subtle bluff]

Soft cap is like getting a A to pass a class.

[agile citrus]

Im dropping it. it doesnt matter. I wanted to learn I dont anymore. if the info you are teaching is so obscure the search engine itself needs to corrected to finds it, Im not interested

[subtle bluff]

A+ is the hard cap

[agile citrus]

I dont want to learn about the 200+ types of mushrooms either.

[scenic whale]

Idk chief the idea of looking at it from the percentage perspective when calculating things is like

Idk entry statistics?

[analog mural]

are u gonna accept the fact that theres no diminishing returns for chd tho

[urban latch]

☝️ You asked

[agile citrus]

Dropping. It. discussion of that terminalogy and its output wont be from me

[gentle lichen]

I was reminded of those "business school is so hard" videos

[broken edge]

Well its not obscure terminology but it has overtaken the point of this chat

Crit damage is not broken

[scenic whale]

I got plenty more jargon don’t you worry

[analog mural]

how is damage amp different from twd?

[agile citrus]

@urban latch I did. all my curiousity dried up like a dusty sponge when I realised I had to go back and select "did you mean" what was originaly typed. this generaly means whatever you typed was incorrectly spelling, super obscure or just doesnt exist. so nupe not curious anymore

[subtle bluff]

TWD is in its own bucket.

Each amp is separate bucket

[agile citrus]

I perfer using easy to understand, well accepted terminology that general people understand. if I have to correct a search engine, Im never using it

[meager fog]

Amps dont add to anything else. TWD adds to other sources of TWD

[urban latch]

This was your "super obscure" search

[scenic whale]

Any amp source is multiplicative even if there’s multiple, TWD is additive to each other.

So if you use like strikers battle gear and a backpack with vigilance they just add to each other

If you use Sadist and Pressure Point despite both saying amped it’s 1.30 * 1.15

[agile citrus]

thats not what you sent.

reduced returns didnt exist

[broken edge]

I'll just going to ask to move on from this topic if it has become how to use google

[agile citrus]

explain

the term is fake.

its made up by ai.

this is why I dropped trying to learn.

[broken edge]

Im not asking anymore

[magic pilot]

Uhhh strikers is not TWD it's an amp

[scenic whale]

Is it not? Sheet just says “increased total weapon damage”, if it isn’t I’ll just delete that message

[magic pilot]

Sheet-
Amplifier, stacks additively

(1 + 0.0065 * n) without backpack
(1 + 0.0090 * n) with backpack

n ranges from 1 to 100, or 1 to 200 with chest

The in game description is what says "increase total weapon damage"

[scenic whale]

I’ll look at the sheet rq gimme a sec, coulda sworn the one I have just says increases weapon damage

Or is the pinned one outdated?

[urban latch]

the in game description is wrong

[scenic whale]

Ah so it’s an amp, good to know

[magic pilot]

Yea that section we just copy from what's in game

Scroll all the way to the right you'll see "talent multiplier" tells you how it's calculated

[scenic whale]

Would a better edit for that message be like vigilance intimidate (not sure why you’d use that combo)

[magic pilot]

Vigilance and obliterate are TWD

[scenic whale]

Yeah I see it now, gotta keep an eye out for those on mobile huh

[gentle lichen]

Intimidate stacks multiplicatively with eachother btw

[magic pilot]

Yea it's weird on mobile

[scenic whale]

Like the stacks are multiplicative to each other?

[magic pilot]

Yep, same with HF

[scenic whale]

Wtf 💀

[gentle lichen]

Also i had a build in mind when cap'n came out since my friend would give so much bonus armor i'd protect my vigi and at the same time have intim active so pvping with that was pretty damn fun

[magic pilot]

The devs are still stingy with bonus armor

[onyx sage]

yeah it's exponential, 1.04^n where n from 1 to 9

[scenic whale]

My friend is currently on his frenzy/sadist tink grindset and I haven’t seen him on any other builds, not that I will complain about free hollow rounds

[agile citrus]

I'm going to add something. Because this has been something that some people have said for a very long time, and there is one very large inconsistency. There's actually two. Amplified damage given by Ubisoft in descriptions applies to all damage. This affects melee and specifically it affects pestilence buff. Stryker amplified stack does not.

[onyx sage]

not the worst grindset

[scenic whale]

It beats his Foundry Bulwark liberty days that’s for sure

[magic pilot]

It's a pretty good combo ngl

[scenic whale]

I’ll never forget the trauma of watching an entire WT battalion run past him and gun me down

[magic pilot]

Make him run vindictive for you lol

[scenic whale]

We already got our resident EP player on that dw

[analog mural]

is HB competitive with strikers now that it got a buff?

[cloud laurel]

Man, I’ve read since posted abt calculation until now yet I’m still don’t understand. Sigh guess I’m just gonna stay as a noob and will never be a pro players. Oh well, my revive keeps me alive while my shield blocking bullets for me. I’m happy with it. These calculations are brain damaging for me

[magic pilot]

Damage wise yet, but it has some stacking issues and can't stack on skill proxies

[analog mural]

is there any reason to use HB over strikers tho or its a matter of preference

[magic pilot]

If you want more survivability you can go HB

I never use it tbh

[cloud laurel]

You can tank in leg better than bulwark set

[analog mural]

the players running 6 blue strikers on leg is killing me tho

[cloud laurel]

That guy must be a legend, there is a hidden power of using 6 pieces that people haven’t heard of it yet or known about it.

[analog mural]

i also had a random on leg DUA that was hard carried by us because he was running a mixed bag of gear sets

[cloud laurel]

3 pieces of striker and tipping scale? I’ve that person in zoo last night and said the build give him so much ROF and mag and I told him, wow you’re a legend!

[analog mural]

...bye bye damage

[cloud laurel]

Most of them are shd range from 4k+ I’ve seen with legend build that I never understand

[analog mural]

either they are having fun cooking up weird builds or they genuinely forgor how gear sets work

[agile citrus]

It's a matter of preference. Hb at it's full potential has close DMG to striker. You need vigil or memento. It doesn't stack on skill proxies but only mini tanks matter and brazen asc12 with laser or even without into vigil and memento and you even run fp is more than even to take a tank

if your not a hs player you'll likely either have to compensate for lack of laser, or use a non exo with tech laser

[stark flicker]

I'm curious why lex is used over huntsman doing a comparison with talents active I hit 10mil dps with lex(killer) and 12mil with huntsman

[agile citrus]

It sucks vs objectives that are too high up to take asc12 DMG. You can tank them down or use a skill of course, it's a pain. Specifically the CD containment on the rail

[broken edge]

huntsman talent is short lived i guess

needs more magazine size to stack the talent which is why is popular with LMGs

that said, my huntsman did roll with magazine and i find that the funniest thing ever and i kept it that way

[stark flicker]

and the base forms aren't that different 4.5mil dps for huntsman and 6mil for lex

[magic pilot]

Is huntsman perfect frenzy?

[stark flicker]

ofc I'm also comparing a rank 8 lex to a rank 0 huntsman

[stark flicker]

yeah famas

[magic pilot]

Yea it's because of the uptime and you have to empty mag

[stark flicker]

I feel like the gun kinda pushes into itself with the rof boost no?

[cloud laurel]

Centurion and TS give more mag it’s fun with AR

[stark flicker]

is it not as noticable without the seasonal modifier?

also bc of how the talent works is huntsman better with dtooc or mag size?

[cloud laurel]

DTTOOC is always better from what I’ve learned here in this channel

[broken edge]

out of cover is the best of the two

i just found that the extra mag size gives you like extra 6% rof

[stark flicker]

figured as much just checking that this wasn't the one niche case where it isn't

[agile citrus]

Dtooc is better because it applies the percentage after all other multiplications have been defined or added up. The only thing higher than dtooc is rate of fire. Which adds after everything else including dtooc

[cloud laurel]

If you wanna have fun, use TS and centurion, work with frenzy

[scenic whale]

Next season surely

Alloy Units with that fat 50% mag increase will save it surely

I’m 100% coping

[magic pilot]

PEMDAS

It doesn't matter the order in which you multiply

2x3=6
3x2=6

[analog mural]

if u wanna cosplay as an a10 warthog may i suggest strikers with tinkerers mask and high rpm lmgs with frenzy and fast hands?

[kindred mango]

I was taught BEDMAS up here in Canada land lol

[analog mural]

wtf is canada land 🗣️

[magic pilot]

I only know freedom units

[kindred mango]

Where everyone lives in igloos

[analog mural]

cheese burgers per football fields?

[magic pilot]

Divided by bald eagles screeching

[analog mural]

istg game is trolling me, ive been getting tidal basin priority objectives for like 3-4 times now

tidal basin is ridiculously long even on heroic

[agile citrus]

I'm going to mail a skunk to the next person who grammar corrects but doesn't change the point

[hexed steppe]

It does change the point.
The only important part is it being another multiplier. The order doesn't matter because each bucket is a multiplier to the other buckets

[agile citrus]

The point was rof affects is the last effect

[hexed steppe]

You will get corrected on math stuff every single time here.

[agile citrus]

It's ok. I'll be worried the info is incorrect changes the effect significantly.

[hexed steppe]

You placed a false importance saying dttooc is better because it multiplies last, which is what you were corrected on

It doesn't matter order

[agile citrus]

It I don't argue math for good reason. Visual learning doesnt comput

[midnight rover]

What are some strong builds atm ?

[hexed steppe]

Then accept what someone says if you cant refute it

[hexed steppe]

Striker, nego, tipping scales, eclipse, ongoing directive, refactor, mortar highend... give some context in what youre looking to do and we can narrow it down

[hexed steppe]

You kinda do argue a lot of stuff on feeling rather than actual proof. Not a dig, just being honest.

[agile citrus]

Sorry. I must have mistaken, dtooc isn't important cuz it multiples after everything else

Just my bad idea, I learned it others, Ill keep it in mind, most info public is not always correct

[hexed steppe]

You can multiply it at any point. If you drop the after part of that statement then you are correct. It is a good damage boost because its a unique source of damage.

[agile citrus]

Someone explained it ages ago this was why it's better than 10% ar

[hexed steppe]

Not because of where you put it in the equation

[hearty pulsar]

opinions? got my critical damage up at the cost of going from chc 51% down a bit. should i sacrifice chc for more chd?

[cloud laurel]

So, DTTOOC matters or not? Ppl keep debating and it’s driving me crazy

[hexed steppe]

Its bis on weapons 99% of the time

[urban latch]

just do yourself a favor and ignore everything car says

[hexed steppe]

Whether you use foxs or not is another story and you need to factor build

[patent fossil]

It's the top choice in most cases because there aren't many sources of it, so you don't get much diminishing returns. Order of multiplication is irrelevant. Same with rate of fire.

Except rate of fire is a smaller value in stat rolls so weaker for that reason

[cloud laurel]

Thank you then let end the DTTOOC since I wanted to learn something news and not repeating again

[urban latch]

you can do a quick check by multiplying the options your thinking about together, just CHD x CHC, and see what has a higher number, That will end up telling you which will do more dps

[scenic whale]

unless you’re playing an LMG you’re always gonna roll DTToOC, I like to roll CHC on LMGs typically

[hearty pulsar]

Seems confuckulating. One side mentions weapon damage, other chance, another damage

[patent fossil]

Yeah chc is usually considered the top lmg option by the spreadsheet gurus here

[hexed steppe]

Also lmg already have dttooc as 2nd

Otherwise they would be suggested to roll it as well

[urban latch]

If your only comparing the tradeoff between CHD and CHC you can ignore everything else in the damage equation since the rest of it will all be the same

[scenic whale]

I tried DTA and RoF both seemed underwhelming. CHC saves me the immense heart break of trying to cope crit chance otherwise lmao

[hearty pulsar]

what about weapon damage

[agile citrus]

Remember DR and soft cap aren't the same. The entire internet is wrong.

Any way people told me not use ar 10% due to the order of math. It's fine if iv been incorrectly informed.

[scenic whale]

Won’t matter, weapon damage comes from core attribute slots so it won’t conflict with your CHC and CHD

[hexed steppe]

Remains the same through calculation like Raucey said

[urban latch]

What about it? At least in reguards to the original question it doesnt factor into comparing CHD vs CHC

[scenic whale]

CHC and CHD can be found from gear mods, gear attributes and weapon mods (with an exception of a named holster giving like a nothing weapon damage buff taking up an attribute slot), so weapon damage won’t affect CHC or CHD

Alternative sources are brand sets or some gear set bonuses for CHC or CHD

[agile citrus]

So. Can you clarify if dtooc and fenris apply the same 10% DMG bonus while using an AR

[cloud laurel]

I’m interesting to know 10% AR dmg isn’t be used

[patent fossil]

Ar damage goes in the weapon damage bucket - it's additive with other weapon damage.
Each bucket is multiplied with the others. Dtooc is a separate bucket to weapon damage.

[agile citrus]

Raucsey I really dont start want to start pasteing every one of 90+ pages saying your wrong and you are refusing to admit you are. But it's ok, that you emote every post. If anyone types into and search engine they have to go in 50 pages to find a post agreeing with you.

[hexed steppe]

Specific weapon damage is additive to your red cores. It will have more value on a blue core builds which is why its strong in pvp builds.
Dttooc is its own bucket and is a seperate multiplier.

[agile citrus]

Fixed @urban latch

[urban latch]

@broken edge

[agile citrus]

Which is why I said it's applied last. Different number. Exact semantics. Which is normally how ppl call me wrong

It's fine. Pretty common

[patent fossil]

Raucey isn't wrong though, the weapon damage calculations are well researched and understood. The damage types are each added up in their buckets and then multiplied together. The order of multiplying doesn't matter, just which bucket they go in and how much is in that bucket already.

[agile citrus]

If I'm wrong that div doesn't use Dr, this makes it unusual for an MMO. But I posted ages all the info to calculate that. What he's wrong about is all the internet agrees soft cap DR are the same

[hexed steppe]

Most of the people quoting this information have that information because of Raucey along with a few other math wizards here.

[scenic whale]

Percentages are funny aren’t they

You add 20% and you get some kooky ass number instead

It’s all about whether it’s multiplicative or additive

[urban latch]

Lol he blocked me

[hexed steppe]

All buckets are both, outside of amps

[scenic whale]

Oh no I’m just talking about the thing earlier since I was tryna explain it to car but

Didn’t seem like it worked

[hexed steppe]

Sources are additive with eachother and multiplicitive with other sources

[scenic whale]

Oh no I get what you mean I’m just referring to like an entirely different convo earlier

[hexed steppe]

Its where the confusion comes in from, only reason I mention

[hexed steppe]

No, really?
Its amazing what calling people out will do

[cloud laurel]

So, as an SMG user, can I used the chest that gives 10% dmg to SMG or not?

[broken edge]

It will help SMGs yes, just not to the big degree you might think

[magic pilot]

Sokolov is a good option if you are are at crit cap

[hexed steppe]

Ill just say, for the record, blocking people is weak sauce.
If one cant have an honest conversation and accept truth idk what they even doing interacting with this channel... js

[magic pilot]

SMGs have a ton of native crit, so WD bonuses are going to be favored even at max expertise on a full red build

[hexed steppe]

Community server exists for that type of bs

[broken edge]

Important to know when its applying to base weapon and at the end of the math

[scenic whale]

How much CHC did backfire have native again, I remember having to swap out almost every CHC attribute cause I didn’t expect the crit overload

[onyx sage]

36

21 from attribute 15 from mods

[cloud laurel]

I’ve 58% CHC maybe I’m wrong but I can check again after work and 58% without mod CHC

[scenic whale]

58 sounds about right, 10 from watch and 12 more from the 2 high end pieces if you’re rocking a gearset

[cloud laurel]

Yeah 1 overdog and 1 red belstone

That’s why I need to know if that 10% dmg to SMG worth of replacement

[midnight rover]

Idk i stopped playing for a bit and rn i am playing a sniper headshot build I think. Did something better came up?

[hexed steppe]

tipping is a new set. hotshot headshot build still good tho

tipping is crit dps

like strikers or nego

[midnight rover]

The build with the SR-1

I got it from youtube but maybe something changed, but if its still good i'll be using it

[hexed steppe]

check over the pinned spreadsheet here. there are guides for all these sets afaik

thatll give breakdowns of the builds

[verbal gust]

Spreadsheet is very helpful this is sort of what I’m running now. For reference.