td2-build-advice

[onyx sage]

ban determined

[worn mango]

It's bad that I just want every version of every gun now with decent rolls lol

The itch is kicking back in to farm like crazy

[tulip charm]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[versed summit]

it’s nice

[worn mango]

I'm going into CD now for AR's. I need me some good rolls

[magic pilot]

All these changes makes me want to play div 1 tbh

I'm not playing div 2 till update is live

[versed summit]

PTS?

[magic pilot]

Eh, not super interested since they randomly change stuff from pts sometimes

[tulip charm]

I need to do the incursions in D1 D:

[versed summit]

fair enough

[magic pilot]

It's not worth getting my dreams crushed

[magic pilot]

I haven't done anything on pc

I did the non dlc ones on ps

[hexed steppe]

It's about time. A8 has its place again

[worn mango]

OD going from 35 to 50%, is that not a big change?

That's amp for yourself correct?

[versed summit]

just yourself. it’s a good change

[rich lotus]

Perfectly Sadist OD should compete with other top tier dps builds if not even better them

[worn mango]

I've never used OD, seems like a fun support build

[rich lotus]

especially with the obliterate nerf

[hexed steppe]

Yeah. It's like adding perfect glass. It's a self amp increase from 15>30. 20% comes from the group buff afaik

[worn mango]

Perfect sadist getting buffed too

[solar sable]

Gif me nego build

[versed summit]

I didn’t even think about Sadist plus OD with both buffed lol. that’s fire

[worn mango]

We rocking NEGEV's

And NEGEV big buff too

[versed summit]

uh

maybe

[rich lotus]

Negotiators change typo "crowd control damage" should say critical hit damage

Increases Crowd Control damage to additional marked enemies from 60% to **112%**🟢

Before: Increases Crowd Control damage to additional marked enemies from 60% to 100%.

[hexed steppe]

That's pretty sweet

[hexed steppe]

#td2-build-advice message

[solar sable]

ty mr. local

[hexed steppe]

You may need to adjust to glass after balance changes kick in.

[onyx sage]

well it's not crit damage, it's the multiplier that marked enemies take that's based on the damage you crit on the main target

[rich lotus]

yeah. but its based on critical hit damage... not the non-existant crowd control damage

[onyx sage]

Crowd Control is the name of the 4p talent spread damage

[hexed steppe]

Full auto rifle gonna be nice.

[rich lotus]

oh no shit my badd

[onyx sage]

lol

[hexed steppe]

Yeah it's based on chance anyways

[onyx sage]

but yeah that's what the number is referring to

you can make an argument for it all being crit damage anyway and what should the meaning of life be and why there are taxes... but you know

[rich lotus]

actually wait a minute

Hostile Negotiations is the 4 piece effect name, critical measures is the backpack talent where is crowd control coming from

[onyx sage]

Hostile Negotiations is probably the actual name in game

are they using the name before wony?

[rich lotus]

i believe so

[onyx sage]

bruh 💀

[rich lotus]

Gear 1.0 HYPE we getting it folks!

[versed summit]

rip

[rich lotus]

I miss OD skill build hybrid with merciless holster talent so much

[rich cosmos]

Thinking about it

Merciless might actually be really good with aces

[rich lotus]

nothing changed to the talent tho its still trash

until they change the talent or allow it to scale with explosives damage its just a meme gun

[versed summit]

I think this could be an interesting an unique change to the talent

Headshot Kills create a 5m explosion, dealing 400% weapon damage and applying bleed to all enemies hit.

[onyx sage]

i think this is a very fun and brand new talent, devs should definitely consider adding it to the game. maybe it will be strong on a pistol

[hexed steppe]

I could see merciless pairing ok with aces tbh

[onyx sage]

maybe on a magnum since it's the strongest pistol now, probably make it an exotic magnum talent

[versed summit]

yooooo, on a pistol would be sick

[worn mango]

A literal hand cannon

[versed summit]

yeah exotic for sure

[onyx sage]

with how strong it may be it makes sense that it can be an exclusive reward behind a new raid for example

[versed summit]

yeah, but lets make sure there’s a project for it sort of like DCH

[rich cosmos]

What are aces set bonuses

[hexed steppe]

Its gonna be opened for rifles

[onyx sage]

yeah yeah of course, probably make them run the raid a few weeks to finally craft it

[rich cosmos]

I know but what are they

[rich lotus]

this is kind of awesome tho. so harvest (it is a magnum right?) will be the best pistol after regulus

[onyx sage]

i hope so, depending on how the talent works too

[rich lotus]

it seems like its just measured for pistols

[versed summit]

for damage likely

[rich cosmos]

Umbra getting buffed seems a little strange imo

Like it was already kinda good in pve

[gentle lichen]

It's widely used in pvp

[versed summit]

it’s ok in PvE IMO, I can’t tell you the last time I saw Umbra in PvE

[rich cosmos]

Buffs only apply to pve

[versed summit]

thankfully

[rich cosmos]

I used to use it a lot I only stopped because it gets annoying

[gentle lichen]

Yeah i like my damage up front

[rich cosmos]

No its the cover usage that makes it wonky

Cool that it uses cover, but then you have to keep getting off and on

[hexed steppe]

Currently. Bag talent is the extra amplified

[rich cosmos]

I can honestly see using a bunch of weapon handling with headshot damage for rifles

Potentially nutty

[hexed steppe]

But flipping 5 cards while getting 7 merciless stacks seems like it could synergize alright and having explosion calculated off an amplified shot

[rich lotus]

unless they add rifle damage to A8 2 piece i think itll still be worse with 30% amp damage then 2 BP, 2 Zwia and foxes

[solar sable]

As a player that has never touched aces, I don't know how aces work even after reading it lol

[versed summit]

you really just gotta shoot people tbh

[hazy steeple]

hello yes, ASIO. This person right here.

[rich cosmos]

Its really simple in actual gameplay

You shoot enemies to apply bonus damage, more opportunities for bonus damage from headshots

Its gambling the gearset

[worn mango]

Loot crates the build huh

[hexed steppe]

I dont see why they wouldn't add that if they are going to add rifle to the set

[rich cosmos]

Yea

[hexed steppe]

Ig we will see tho. Easy way to snub the set a second time in a row if they didnt

[rich cosmos]

What makes aces potentially crazy is full auto rifles, because yeah its not really a buff but it makes them much more consistent and easier to use

[rich lotus]

large correction to a topic from an hour ago, 1886 is 21 million damage fully stacked HH, not 23, which makes a big difference, might just BARELY be over 26 million with the buff if even

[versed summit]

I’m pretty curious about that as well

[rich lotus]

not crit of course, crits dont count

[rich cosmos]

I forget whats the talent on surge?

[onyx sage]

1886 base damage got buffed right?

[rich lotus]

yeah 25%

[onyx sage]

perfect spike iirc

[hexed steppe]

Yeah, with a ton of handling like you mentioned, it could be quite good

[hazy steeple]

If they do fail to add Rifle stats to Aces to go along with the functionality, I know a PTS chat that would love to have it mass requested.

[rich cosmos]

What it do?

[rich lotus]

increase skill damage on HS

[onyx sage]

increases skill damage on headshot? i forgor

jinx

[rich cosmos]

And rifles don’t necessarily need crit damage as they have higher dps naturally

[rich cosmos]

I have an evil, sinister idea in motion

[rich lotus]

make a viable sniper skill hybrid? make sacrum imperium not trash? lay it on me

[hazy steeple]

Is it Arson?

[rich cosmos]

Using surge, aces, having all weapon handling and headshot damage, and having at least 2 or 3 skill tiers

I cannot test on the pts so I must wait

[rich lotus]

RIP SRS btw, big blow to my motivation of farming DTA determined adrestia

[hexed steppe]

As an already avid rifle user, these changes are all just adding gravy for me. With full auto I'll probably use some of the other non-m1a rifles with higher capacity

[rich cosmos]

Wait a minute didn’t behind you get buffed

Behind you on the full auto 30+ mag rifles 💀

[rich lotus]

yeah 5%

[hexed steppe]

Consider future perfect on rifle as well 🤔

[rich cosmos]

Talent description?

[hexed steppe]

Kills raise skilltier

[rich cosmos]

Oh right

[hexed steppe]

And can oc potentially

[rich cosmos]

That will be great too

[solar sable]

so is my love for chatterbox going to be buffed
I'm starting to like that change

[rich cosmos]

Gonna have to remake my goofy ah build with a lvoa and aces and eights

[solar sable]

btsu striker, that's weird

[rich cosmos]

Yes it is

[flint wave]

wtf

with firefly aswell

[hexed steppe]

It's not that weird tbh. Its purpose built I think

[rich cosmos]

Best skill in the game

[rich cosmos]

And truthfully it could be better and actually work if I wasn’t biased against capacitor

[rich lotus]

not necessarily build advice, but they REALLY need to allow refunding of exotic components on salvaging gear with expertise levels, for nolifes like my its a minor thing, for casuals its really a kick in the **** on new balance patches

[hexed steppe]

Well not really. Blinder is status

[rich cosmos]

Blind goes up with skill tier

[hexed steppe]

Cap raises skill damage, not skill tier

[rich cosmos]

Not what it would be for

For the 7.5 damage

To add another skill tier

[flint wave]

would be happy seeing this in the sea of ninjabike tp brazos runners

[hexed steppe]

Perpetuation rifle secondary would be like 50% + status effects tho

[rich cosmos]

Tbf ninja bike might actually be “good” now

[flint wave]

[rich cosmos]

With some of the two piece bonus

Its still ninja bike

But, slightly better

Rifles being usable will open up a lot of build opportunities

[rich lotus]

not good, less bad.

[worn mango]

Okay, I'm using OD now and it feels like an infinite money glitch lol

[versed summit]

lol

[solar sable]

how come? I forgor it's buffs

[worn mango]

You get one status kill and you just keep getting hallow point which keeps the status up and you keep getting ammo back

It's just good fun

[solar sable]

oh, yeah that thing stinks

[worn mango]

Nah this is filthy

[rich cosmos]

Its getting a buff

Which is cool

People who use it for their teammates are based

[worn mango]

I love it when I'm in CD and getting hollow point rounds

It's buff is just to your self damage if using the chest but sadist is also getting a buff

I'm using @urban latch's OD build from the guide, it's a nice change of pace

[magic pilot]

I think people are sleeping on the catharsis changes

[worn mango]

One of the best masks getting better is crazy

[magic pilot]

That might make it decent for pve builds like tech tanks, absolutely going on my pfe build

[worn mango]

I have a 71% PFE with it and I love it

I just walk around in CD and face tank everything

[magic pilot]

Blue striker with catharsis

[worn mango]

I also have that lol

HB with Catharsis could be nasty too

[magic pilot]

True

[worn mango]

More damage from Cat and more damage from HB stacks

[magic pilot]

When memento buff

[worn mango]

Memento drops magnetize to you so you don't need to go pick them up

[rich lotus]

so hardwired is now 5s cluster seeker spam now? thats kind of okay

[red island]

yes

i like my seeker going boom

[hexed steppe]

highend mortar will still be king, at least i hope it will 😎

[rich lotus]

highend mortar is ❤️

i dont even have a hardwired build atm

havent since they massacred seekers and btsu gloves

[versed summit]

Wut? When?

[rich lotus]

years ago, clusters actually hit things and btsu gloves were for buffing damage buff based on having applied a status effect to enemies

flamethrower turret and clusters was the meta skill build

Elemental Gadgetry: Skills that apply status effects gain +50% status effect duration and +50% skill haste.

Energy Infusion: Whenever you apply a status effect, your gloves become infused with that for 60s. While infused, you gain +10% skill damage, +10% skill healing and repair and +10% skill duration for each Utility (yellow battery) on your gear.

Charged Proxies: Whenever you throw a skill, 1.25s after landing, it creates an explosion applying the infused status effect to all enemies within 6m. Enemies affected by the infused status effect take 50% more damage from your skills.

was so much fun

[worn mango]

Were there any good Bighorn builds or is it still memey? I didn't realize how easy it was to farm and ended up grabbing one tonight

[rich lotus]

Its a decent gun atm, but might be some cool new builds with it after patch - it gets a slight overall buff and there is a gear set based on alternating close and ranged damage which i think the bighorn could really excel at

[rich cosmos]

Its pretty good and its getting a buff in the new season

[worn mango]

Yeah that's why I went after it. Also just because I want all the exotics anyway

Only missing five weapons now so filling out the catalogue nicely

[magic pilot]

Problem is that bighorn is hsd base and there's a lot of enemies without heads in pve

[rich cosmos]

I hope div 3 changes to something like precision damage like how destiny does

So it can affect multiple things

[magic pilot]

i havent played destiny so not sure what you mean tbh

[shy willow]

On first glance it looks like another way of saying weak point damage

[rich cosmos]

^

[magic pilot]

ahh

yea would be nice

[worn mango]

I feel like weakpoint is too 'fantasy' and they wouldn't do that. Some folks would get offended by it being not headshot

[vernal kernel]

Hey guys, i am running pentco quite often. All i get capacitor.
I need elmo. Any tips

[tulip charm]

Get luckier

[versed summit]

It’s rng

[vernal kernel]

👊 haha
Ok

[rich cosmos]

Game isn’t realistic enough to justify that claim

[worn mango]

I know this. But people are like "more realistic, I want military outfit and milsim shenanigans"

People forgot this is a game ya know lol

[versed summit]

They really do

[rich cosmos]

I mean I want more realistic outfits, doesn’t mean the gameplay should be affected

[worn mango]

Oh absolutely. But people associate the gameplay, world, and all aspects as one

[hexed steppe]

sacrifice a few CD extractions too Lootcifer... tier 6 hacked stinger hive works wonders for this.
🔥 😈 🔥

[rich lotus]

Is this build crazy?

[red island]

ninja backpack is a bad thing, you lose too much stats

even with striker nerf to come

[rich lotus]

Should I replace it with memento or striker backpack?

[vestal ibex]

I mean that's not exactly your issue.

How do you plan on not bleeding to death?

[rich lotus]

The little ball

[red island]

it will heal nothing and you'll still be slowed

[rich lotus]

I tried it, didn't get even a bar down

[rich cosmos]

Yeah that ain’t working

Moment you build the stacks on backfire your dropping

[vestal ibex]

In range or in missions?

[rich lotus]

Both

[vestal ibex]

Well it'll work but it's just a worse version of strikers build where you have to have regen/healing.

[bronze hound]

Hi soul

[rich lotus]

Any suggestions on what weapon to use other than back fire ?

[vestal ibex]

Oh show up when it's convenient eh?? Where have you even been?

[bronze hound]

I am SO busy with school

I won't have time to play until Sunday

[vestal ibex]

Famas, F2000, Elmo, Ouro, these are some of the top picks for most.

[bronze hound]

😞

[rich lotus]

Thanks I'll use Elmo bc I got it with pretty good attributes

[bronze hound]

I have a quiz to take today and a few hours of homework tomorrow

And I work tonight and tomorrow night so

That's why you haven't been seeing me 😞

[rich lotus]

Shimmy shimmy shimmya

[wanton rose]

i have a common striker build (coyote, backpack and chest 4 pc striker and fox's prayer), equipped with ouroboros and rock n roll. all red core... Ouro seems to have a low effective range and i ssem to run out of ammo fairly quickly due to high ROF. any suggestions to improve or another ouroboros build ?

[vestal ibex]

Use ouro to stack and use an AR to spread ammo use so you don't run out.

Not sure what content you play in but unless you stack for bosses or for heroic countdown you don't really need to ACS nor striker chest.

[rich lotus]

I'd like to take this time to discuss the most substantial and game changing change in the PTS. Hollow Man DTH 10%-14%

[vestal ibex]

For razorback one shot?

[rich lotus]

was being sarcastic, honestly i'm still quite certain the balance pass for numbers was done by one of those simple free AI prompts

8.33% Status effects, 13% HSD, etc etc

[rich cosmos]

Current build, (just pretend the cheska is coyote) Im wondering if I should wait till the season goes live to do anymore more builds because its hard to judge the damage it will do

Shame console can’t join the pts

[autumn yacht]

so dedicated to lvoa you put it in your name wow

[tulip charm]

xd

[rich cosmos]

:3

[tulip charm]

But yeah dont run backpack

[rich lotus]

is LVOA manageable with no weapon handling

[urban latch]

Imo ARs are just better

the accuracy is enough of a problem that you just miss enough shots its not really worth it

and if your hitting 100% accuracy with both theres not much advantage anyways

[rich lotus]

agree

[tulip charm]

Not really xd

You really need to run omega sup

[rich cosmos]

Why?

[rich lotus]

i see the rifle full auto as a quality of life thing for people who already use rifles, not a gamechanger for people who usually run ARs

[tulip charm]

I mean if you want to have consistent ace buff then why not but just go for headshots

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[urban latch]

the ravenous has been bugged on console and doesnt consistantly shoot at the RPM it should, so this really is a gasme changer for that

[rich cosmos]

Its a quality of life that conveniently pairs with aces

[rich cosmos]

Not just rav, a problem with the gun itself

[rich cosmos]

Then you need more handling

[tulip charm]

Yeah thats the issue

[rich cosmos]

And I also have plans to try and get my wacky btsu glove striker build into aces

[rich lotus]

wat.

[rich cosmos]

This wacky build

The only reason Im hesitant is because rifles have low ammo reserves

[rich lotus]

i dont understand tho. you had skill tier 3, it still overcharges despite this? or it doesnt do anything

is it just to refill your hive?

[vestal ibex]

I guess in the PTS it shoots 1 bullet vs 2...

[urban latch]

yeah.... its currently bugged... classic "break it while fixing it" move

[rich cosmos]

3 tiers plus pistol is for restorer to heal

[vestal ibex]

Okay mosquito man.

[rich lotus]

I appreciate the non-rigid thinking, but like... you could probably use an armor kit quicker than you can switch to pistol and deploy hive and take in the tic

[rich cosmos]

Armor kit is limited

Plus I rarely ever swap to pistol

Its kinda just there just in case

[rich lotus]

its all good, dont listen to me i just did this

dont do this

[rich cosmos]

I can feel myself falling asleep don’t worry

Im really interested in seeing how this performs with full auto

[rich lotus]

not worth it

[rich cosmos]

It has potential imo

[rich lotus]

keep in mind the unused attachments are getting buffed, so in 99% of cases where handling is an issue and for some reason you cannot fit ANY weapon handling on your gear, youre better off taking a damage talent and using accuracy/stability mods over CHC/CHD mods

[placid latch]

With a GR9, that's basically infinite ammo

(unless your aim is under 50% on body shot)

I use that talent on descent because ammunition are limited (getting stability and accuracy on unstable weapon make it really confortable)

[magic pilot]

gr9 is terrible now

BK is pretty strong

did PDW did get changed at all?

[rich lotus]

unlimited ammo is fun and id argue that the gr9 is better than the bullet king because of the handling of the weapon itself (good luck using bullet king at long range) but even with me being fairly accurate the rpk/l86 completely outclasses it in raw damage

[white egret]

Solo PVE build go br

[red island]

bullet king long range is fine with some stab

[magic pilot]

i dont have an issue with it, and you are comparing it to RPK which feels almost identical in recoil and spread

[rich lotus]

i suppose id be hard to have an objective accuracy analysis but i feel pretty confident i could put more hits on a target across an entire countdown map with a steady handed gr9 than someone with bullet king

[magic pilot]

well yea steady handed Gr9 is better for handling but i think its enough dps loss to justify BK

[rich lotus]

im just saying i ditched the unlimited ammo lmgs for the harder hitting ones and it made me realize how much of a novelty they were

[magic pilot]

im a huge rpk fan, but i am comparing GR9 steady hand and BK specifically

[rich lotus]

gotcha, i dont have an expertised BK but isnt dmg within 5%?

[tulip charm]

the rpk change is weird

[magic pilot]

what did they do to it?

[tulip charm]

rpm is 600(?) and l86 is now at 700

[rich lotus]

50 rpm might not seem like much of a nerf but 650 RPM rpk was just enough (coupled with its accuracy) to make it work for striker, now not so much

[placid latch]

I prefer M60 or M249 (and they have way better damage than the GR9)

With the extended barrel, you get 150 ammuntions which should be plenty enough for steady

That need a little bit of aim though

The advantage of BK is the fact it does give ammo to you and you friend

[vivid ivy]

Lookin for a good pve build for the eagle bearer.

[red island]

check pinned message for builds

[vivid ivy]

I’m still lost

[red island]

there is a link to a spreadsheet with builds on it

[solar sable]

EB does not shine in PvE as much as in PvP.

[red island]

its fine in pve to tank

[versed summit]

It’s fine in PvE, there’s better weapons, but really it just slots into any AR build.

[hexed steppe]

look into striker on the spreadsheet

at this point dps boils down to 2 setups..
Striker if you want to shut your brain off.
Nego if you want to use minimal brain function to utilize a gear mechanic

most of the lesser dps setups fall into the brain off category 😅

[worn mango]

I'm an OD believer

Truther even

[vivid ivy]

Oh then I think I’m good. I thought there was a stronger build. Ty guys/gals though

[red island]

all builds can be strong depending on the situation, nego can outdps striker with aoe damage

[versed summit]

Not exactly AoE but maybe I’m just bored and nitpicky

[worn mango]

Area of impact lol

[rich lotus]

@worn mango Stand fast, brother. Even the heretics shall bask in the glory of OD's light come Tu22.

[worn mango]

Preach brethren

But I'll admit. Even super unoptemized I'm having a ton of fun with it

35% turning into 50% soon and Sadist getting better

[versed summit]

I hadn’t even thought about how good it’s going to be with the new rifles.

Not sure how the MMRs handle, but you could run it with Oppurtunistic now

[worn mango]

NEGEV is also getting better and Carnage has Perfect Sadist. Just can't use a shield but whatever

[dreamy valve]

hmm Kard pistol will get buffed lul

[rich lotus]

who needs a shield when BRRT

[red island]

pestilence build when ?

[rich lotus]

"oh youre building striker stacks? dont mind me, BRRRT"

[dreamy valve]

Brazen getting buffed lmao

[worn mango]

Here's your bleed brrrrrttttttt

[rich lotus]

"still building stacks? no prob bro here's some hollow points. also BRRRT"

[worn mango]

Scorpio auto procs itself, brrrtttt

[dreamy valve]

Hardwired Skill Spam is going to get crazy

[rich lotus]

Now your clusters can miss 75% of the time 100% faster!

[dreamy valve]

Also, my Backfire build just got insane

effectively doubled the damage to it

[versed summit]

That’s sick

[red island]

damage didnt double

the speed to get the damage got double

[versed summit]

Probably from hazpro bonuses or something

[red island]

you need to stack for half the time

[wise swallow]

What lyfe stacking time cut in half and i assume bleed dmg also cut in half

Cuz it’s based off number of stacks

[dreamy valve]

The stack time is now very viable, my build grants bleed immunity

[wise swallow]

Probably don’t need immunity anymore if bleed is less

[hexed steppe]

wouldnt the bleed be more if the stacks are double per mag

[wise swallow]

Byeah seems a lot more usable

[wise swallow]

I thought bleed dmg was stacks * 1. Whatever

Or is that wrong

[hexed steppe]

50 rounds = 100 stacks, instead of 50 current

[dreamy valve]

Bleed remains the same duration and amount

[hexed steppe]

currently in pts

[wise swallow]

So at full stacks it would be less or no?

[wise swallow]

Still cool ig

[hexed steppe]

depends if its reworked to reflect. but if its showing same per mag it may just be less

[dreamy valve]

even if not change, just the stack reduction alone will skyrocket its dps

[mint axle]

9 seconds because the permanent 10% Haz Protection from SHD watch

[wise swallow]

Still seems really good regardless

But less bleed would be huge

[dreamy valve]

yeah its in my looadout

I still use hardwired so thats going to be twice as fun as well

[hexed steppe]

but if its same bleed for double the stacks that is makes it a lot more viable

[red island]

no its half the stacks but double the crit damage, but blee ddamage is the same

[magic pilot]

IMO having an OD player is almost essential in group

[hexed steppe]

oic, ok yeah, had that mixed up in my head

[magic pilot]

Their own dps is going to be insanely good as well as team dmg

Could do some nasty stuff with a six-12 sadist or Brazen whichever ends up being stronger and opp bp

[dreamy valve]

Im going to try out Mosquito on my tank build, looks to be a great chungus killer

[versed summit]

Rn it’s a god killer lol

[dreamy valve]

heavies beware!

[shy willow]

It looks like it's thrown Scorpio and lefty off the support weapon throne

[magic pilot]

Scorpio still insane

But it's more reason to use six-12

[dreamy valve]

I might use ACS12 over Six12

not sure what SMG to use now though

Capacitance and Bighorn seems to get stronger with every patch

looks like Ongoing Directive is back on the menu

[tulip charm]

Yep

[dreamy valve]

Might try Aces and Eights with a rifle

one of those full auto ones?

[rich cosmos]

A lot are,

(If you try it out please clip it for me Im desperate to see footage)

[tulip charm]

:<

i tried it with it’s pretty underwhelming

[dreamy valve]

I've marked each of them on these charts with a red dot for better reference

[rich cosmos]

Do you have any footage?

Theres like zero footage to go off of rn

[tulip charm]

I forgor 💀

[rich cosmos]

Ive seen rifles with umbra, they might potentially be pretty insane

[tulip charm]

I tried it with lvoa w/ killer and obliterate/vig and chest piece/vig. I think max I hit was 1.5m crit hs.

[rich cosmos]

Aces???

[tulip charm]

Yeah

[rich cosmos]

Aces would be better with chest and backpack tho

Then use maybe foxes with coyotes

[tulip charm]

Yeah i mean with the hit to crit in general you really cant run foxes

Also you need to run omega sup

[rich cosmos]

Not that big of a deal

[rich cosmos]

Personally Id recommend trying this out for aces

[tulip charm]

Ill see whats up if no1 else does it for you by tomorrow.

[rich cosmos]

K

[dreamy valve]

hmm, I can double to triple damage of that with a High End setup using MDR non PTS

[rich cosmos]

Lvoa isn’t the best but its the lvoa so its got style points

[dreamy valve]

What do you guys think about using Strega with Hunter's Fury

[tulip charm]

Sounds pretty cool

It’s gonna be a good solo ar.

[dreamy valve]

Close quarters is my main playstyle so it might be my new bruiser

[tulip charm]

Idk if the selfish debuff or other people running strega can make use of it.

[dreamy valve]

it says multiple marks can be applied to the same enemy gat dam

[tulip charm]

Currently its bugged as it doesn’t have a cap

[dreamy valve]

oh

[lone blade]

did they touch Hotshots?

[red island]

no

[placid latch]

They changed the MMR base damage though

and some other HSD on some brand

[red island]

doesnt matter, the damage is way to high as a base

[glossy scarab]

anyone else try ravenous full auto and noticed that its a pain to control the recoil. the reticle jumps increasingly upward the longer you fire and even pulling down on the mouse the whole time I couldn't keep it on target

[dreamy valve]

Oh that’s right, the full auto extends to other exotics and named weapons

Like Artist Tool and Dread Edict

[red island]

dread edict accuracy and stability is awful tho, i really dont want to see that full auto xd

[rough crest]

Early end game here.

I'm getting my first few sets.

What should I be looking for on drops? What's a good early end game build?

I want to push past hard and into challenging. But don't really know where to start.

Edit. DMs welcome.

[rich cosmos]

Striker with coyote and cheska chest is everyones first goal

[red island]

if you're lvl 40, go for striker as a base build, its on spreazdsheet

[rich cosmos]

Beyond that I recommend looking at a list of all the gearsets in the game to see what you want

[rough crest]

Cheers guys. 🍻

Should I then be looking for "God Rolls" and what exactly are those? I've heard them mentioned.

[placid latch]

Agreed, Striker is pretty strong, allows to do almost any content and easy to build. Recommanded a friend who liked to play close and mid-rang a Chamelon build with striker.

The best advice: choose a play style that suit you. Striker could be just the stepping stone to farm all the other build

[brittle swallow]

i'm trying to figure out how to get the test subject can anyone explain how to get it? i don't understand what it means on the build wiki

[red island]

Tl assault rifle in LZ

[brittle swallow]

i don't know what any of that means i'm sorry

[red island]

targeted loot, and light zone

[brittle swallow]

ahhh

and i'm assuming if i can't see the assault rifle loot it's not there and i have to wait?

[red island]

yeah but on countdown or summit you can decide whats the TL

[brittle swallow]

what is summit?

[red island]

a game mode, you have to clear 100 floors

[brittle swallow]

oh nice

is it easy to do? or not really?

[red island]

you can put the difficulty you want

higher difficulty = better loot

[brittle swallow]

oooo

this is what i'm looking for right?

[red island]

this is not summit, but its assault rifle TL ye

[brittle swallow]

i want to build towards the aces & eights build using the mantis

how do i target farm the mantis?

[red island]

TL snipers

its a rare drop, so be patient

[brittle swallow]

okay summit is super fun

should i TL marksman rifles for the gun first or is it better to get the set first with this build?https://www.evernote.com/shard/s332/client/snv?isnewsnv=true&noteGuid=360f1d8f-2897-4df6-8565-c9c247efb52e&noteKey=d4e73c93234165d5&sn=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.evernote.com%2Fshard%2Fs332%2Fsh%2F360f1d8f-2897-4df6-8565-c9c247efb52e%2Fd4e73c93234165d5&title=Praying%2BMantis%2B%2528Mantis%2Bmeta%2Bby%2BNug%2529

[red island]

whatever you wanna build, you can change TL at anytime

[brittle swallow]

oh really?!

okay how do i do that?

[red island]

go on map, if you're in dc put your mouse over summit, then press H

and select what you wanna target

[brittle swallow]

ooooooooo i get it now

are their groups doing summit? how would i find them?

[red island]

you can machmake, everyone can have their own target loot during that time

[glossy scarab]

so i tried perfect versatile vs a grupo versatile and the perfect version beat the grupo version by like 1k. grupo helps your other weapons though with the brand bonus so i dont see any use in the perfect version as usual (bc of crap brand bonuses)

[red island]

yeah, that was to be expected

[glossy scarab]

standard stuff yeah

[red island]

but the exotic holster might be good with it

the buff it gives sound neat

dunno if its worth yet tho i need more testing

[glossy scarab]

yes yes

the holster is great

they do work well together

[brittle swallow]

i wish the LMG pestilence had a sniper varient that would be really cool

[red island]

how would you put 50 stacks with a sniper ?

[jagged marlin]

I like using plauge of the outcasts with a sniper in descent

[brittle swallow]

obviously it would be lower

[jagged marlin]

Just tag things and they die

[placid latch]

I'm feeling there is so much better exo talent in descent such as Capacite, Liberty or diamond back talent or even the bullet king

[jagged marlin]

I mean yea there are more optimal talents, but the game isn't only meant to be played as just simply picking out the puzzle of highest number route

[placid latch]

Plague of Outcast is really fun but I'm feeling Descend is such a harsh place that you will never follow the power creep from AI.

Even at loop, 5/6 you feel the diff

[jagged marlin]

Well, that just makes it more spicy and challenging

It's fun to sometimes make the game challenging and harder by not picking things that will make it easier, for me I enjoy the gameplay, not the rate at which one can complete content

[worn mango]

Well, I didn't realize how crazy all red HB was and now it's getting stronger

Glad I farmed this now lol

[mighty plume]

They buffing HB?

[tulip charm]

1% to 1.3% per stack in pts.

[mighty plume]

Ooo thats neat

I never finished mine, Im so broke on optimization mats but I'll be sure to finish it

[tulip charm]

Personally I don't see it going through.

But its cool that its getting buffed.

[worn mango]

TKB is also getting a sustain buff so Kingbreaker inherently better

[versed summit]

It does have the worst burst though. With how ARs are looking though, it’ll look fairly good tbh.

[worn mango]

Worst burst but 2nd most sustain is so funny to me

Hard to quantify where that's actually good

Maybe it's a beef melter, who knows

Actually now that I think about it, it's almost the AR version of an LMG

[versed summit]

They’re all like that lol. Interesting but it lets you pick what you value ig

[worn mango]

Playing CD, a SHD 20k is using heartbreaker mask, ninja bike, 1 piece fenris, 1 piece brazos and 2 piece palisade

[versed summit]

That’s uh

Something

[worn mango]

I think we call those meta setters

[hazy steeple]

As we've said before: SHD level just means time spent. It's no indication of skill.

[worn mango]

Oh absolutely. Hopefully they're having fun with it

[wide sundial]

is this the most optimal for control point farming or would contractors/fox prayers be better?

[worn mango]

Chest might be tough to get all the stacks, you might be better off running a sokolov chest and striker holster

But if you can get all the stacks and keep them then it's fine

[hexed steppe]

fastest clears come from a headhunter hotshot build, but this should work good.

[hexed steppe]

see how your stack build with chest like suggested above, of only hitting hald add an obliterate chest

m700 carbon, model 700, sr1 all will allow you to hit 30mil range. 4pc hotshot will keep them loaded a lot even if they are bolt

if you can meet the damage needed with dread then itll work

[shy willow]

Swap chainkiller with the sacrifice or something

Glass cannon with dread is super good

Idk if you can hit heroic breakpoints with an svd

Elites but maybe not named

[hexed steppe]

i couldnt tell you tbh, i never use dread other than cheesing its bonus armor mechanic when it first came out

[wide sundial]

talent?

[worn mango]

Determined

[hexed steppe]

determined for the bolt actions

1st headshot kill with determined allows you to chain headshots even if you shoot body

[shy willow]

Dread is best used a a headshot spam machine imo

If you gonna go for one shots there are better rifles

[wide sundial]

I can craft all of em which one best?

[hexed steppe]

model 700 is highest possible damage with crappy reload. i use both m700 carbon or sr1 and both are really nice, mag reload

[worn mango]

SR1 is great

[wide sundial]

Yeah I was gonna go sr1 looks better

[hexed steppe]

on my alts i just used the first to drop. i like them both

i think sr1 is higher damage than m700 carbon as well

[wide sundial]

keep or keep going?

[worn mango]

That's usable

[hexed steppe]

yup, looks good . right stats , and if a better one drops it can be replaced

if you can hit 100% stability through weapon handling rolls and stability mods/sharpshooter bonus , youll have no scope sway when you ads

[wide sundial]

what should attachments be weapon handling for all?

[hexed steppe]

other than mag and scope. hsd scope and tight packed mags. all else stability

[wide sundial]

this scope?

[hexed steppe]

that is good, if you have sharpshooter scope unlocked its 45% hsd

[worn mango]

Use the sniper specialization and use the biggest scope for most hsd

[wide sundial]

oh cool I just 1 shot everything now thanks

[hexed steppe]

nice 🍻

[worn mango]

Yep that's the way. Outcasts are easiest to farm too

[hexed steppe]

outcast cp's will be the m.... g dmt, why you faster than me 😅

[worn mango]

lol

We're all on this build, we're sweaty

[hexed steppe]

great minds

[wide sundial]

I've been farming east mall where should I go now?

[hexed steppe]

nw side is mostly outcast

you can also reset cp and farm the same one over and over if looking for top xp gain

sleeping giant and the choke are good for repeating. they both close to safehouse

[worn mango]

Sleeping Giant is probably the fastest from The Attic. Sit up top above them all, it's like shooting fish in a barrel. Then when you clear first wave, take the top of the construction site and pick them off either under the overpass or coming over the wall

[wide sundial]

is that faster than just running a loop of 3 and then reseting?

[worn mango]

Overgrowth is also easy so you could do those two and then repeat

[hexed steppe]

a little faster, but just running them will still be solid gains

[worn mango]

When you reset control point from SG it brings you right back to the safehouse anyway. It's an easy spam

Custom M44 will probably be the choice after update because it's the highest base damage with a mag reload

The top three will be Model 700, M44 and Hunting M44

[versed summit]

Tbh, I don’t see the point behind Model 700

[worn mango]

There's some redunancy with marksmans I'm seeing now

[versed summit]

Does it have better handling? It has a worse reload than WD

[worn mango]

I still think it's weird you can roll whatever on WD

[versed summit]

It’s like backup boomstick yanno

Honestly it is kinda weird because it just automatically makes it best in slot

[rich lotus]

all the non exotic MMRs that dont have wood furniture are useless come TU22 😦

(the healer MMR doesnt count)

[versed summit]

Custom m44 is polymer or whatever

[rich lotus]

i dont recall does it have more mods slots or anything

[shy willow]

Under barrel probably

Actually the classic have an under barrel

[rich lotus]

its odd on the white death (classic m44) cause im fairly certain it already has max stability and the only handling mod is also for stability

for the under barrel slot that is

so you cant max accuracy and stability like you can with model 700

[flint spire]

Rate my build for conflict
Any changes?

[solar sable]

I'd say use Foxes instead

[flint spire]

Foxes?

[solar sable]

Fox's Prayer*

[flint spire]

Ah
Eh
Tried to, didn't work out
After all, most are behind cover
In some way

[rich lotus]

i dont pvp, but maybe id like to, can you explain the reasoning behind perfect focus with determined

[wise swallow]

holding angles

[flint spire]

Building damage while holding a choke point
And determined to make easier on myself

Or that too

[rich lotus]

gotcha

[flint spire]

It's for dropping those who run 6 armor cores and critics chance and damage

[wise swallow]

they typically arent

you have to be using the actual cover system to negate foxes prayer

which majority arent going to

[rich lotus]

maybe he was DTTOOC on his model 700 tho

[flint spire]

Yea

[wise swallow]

chances are foxes would still be better then 3rd araldi

[rich lotus]

only way to get DTA and still have both minor attributes free i think?

[wise swallow]

you dont need DTA

and you only need 1 attribute

[rich lotus]

i dunno i like weapon handling 😛

[wise swallow]

DTOOC and DTA are basically interchangable in a PVP context

you probably dont need foxes but It would be better then 3rd araldi

[gentle lichen]

I'd say put contractor's for a little more damage and they don't have to be out of cover

[wise swallow]

good point

[flint spire]

[wise swallow]

do what nb said

[flint spire]

I'll try it

It makes a small difference
Instead of 1.9 mil

It does 2.1 mil now

[wise swallow]

bigger then I thought tbh

[brittle swallow]

can i access my gun libary of alt characters to make guns i've saved on other characters

[flint spire]

As long it drops 6 armor core
I'm happy

[shy willow]

iirc people like to run reds in conflict anyway so you'll drop most

[flint spire]

Gimme your lobbies
I been running into nothing but high armor

[shy willow]

It's all just glass sniper and mortar/fire cheese

[wise swallow]

I see mostly umbra nbp

[shy willow]

That too

[round zinc]

which weapon does the chameleon inherit its stat from

i saw a damage buff for it but couldn't find it listed in the exotic section

i always assumed that its based off the vector with a modified RPM

like how EB inherits p416 stats

[shy willow]

I'm not sure actually

.45 vector at a guess

[round zinc]

but all vectors got their base damage nerfed

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Mr854re3DujkaUIQNHnMNf07I3EOE7Jk9evPb6G-wbU/edit?gid=0#gid=0 according to this sheet i took from ikia(posted on reddit) cham got roughly 5k more damage per shot

this wasn't noted on the sheets at all,and i was sure it was based off of the vector stat wise minus the rpm

closest reference i can find to compare is the CTAR being 44.793 per shot and 900 rpm

vs cham's 44.670

which is probably in the margin of error

[shy willow]

Cham didn't inherit the nerfs?

[round zinc]

yup yup

cham is finally beating the knockoff vector accusation

5 more optimal range,higher mag n accuracy over range

[crystal token]

rate my PTS aces build (thinking of switching to a headshot build probably would get better dmg & dont mind thunderstrike didnt know what to test)

would love suggestions

[versed summit]

Striker’s isn’t worth it here and neither is NBB tbh. Not sure how we’ll want to set up aces builds now though.

[crystal token]

so just go through a 4pc aces and some exotic armor/named piece? I just wanna find the best way to blend in rifles tbh

[versed summit]

I’d probably do the sacrifice and the gift tbh? The backpack and chest of aces is not great from what I remember

[shy willow]

I can see the chest being good

30-50 percent amped shots

Frees up foxes

And then probably run the gift with that

[rocky rain]

Are DZ exclusives really DZ exclusives or also loot in other missions/PVPs?

Or buy them somewhere?

[placid latch]

DZ loot but you can get some on Named cache or inherited season cache (corruption system for exemple drop from those)

You can also buy them on DZ vendor agreed you got the DZ money

And lastly, doing descent allow you to get blueprint

[tulip charm]

Also the rare chance of buying dz named in cd vendor ie the week the gift was available

[placid latch]

along those are the DZ blueprint

Except for Murakami imperial guard, the other aren't that much diff from their normal counter part

[round zinc]

this is just...horrible im sorry man

whats even the synergy

is strikers only there for more fire rate?

[rocky rain]

That the one I want indeed. Is Conflict a source for it?
And for buying named boxes, also from Season stars/Countdown?

[crystal token]

yes that's why i need suggestions lol

[round zinc]

suggestions?just slap on red pieces

remove strikers and ninjabad,probably go glass cannon+vigilance

lvoac can be swapped for classic m1a if its a headshot centric build

[crystal token]

that's true probably the most optimal rifle for new aces right?

[round zinc]

not sure about the math tbh

m1a just has high base damage so you can use it to reliably tap heads

its used in HE red builds before striker buff for dealing with long range targets

[urban latch]

ninjabike is a trap

[crystal token]

it's raucey the build god!! please show me the light what should I do
I just wanted a build for the new lightweight M4

[urban latch]

high end build, umbra, or nego would be my suggestion

[crystal token]

got it will test it out in the PTS while there's still time lol

[placid latch]

If you want 1% regen, use 1 belstone armory

[rich cosmos]

Coyotes, foxes or cheska

[magic pilot]

base gun is vector but all the stats are seperate. like how lvoa is the base model for st elmo

[hazy steeple]

Actually Elmo's base gun is indeed an m4, but as the other AR's in the M4 category are all police m4's, we can assume that it's one as well.

LVOA on the other hand whilst being an M4, is a rifle, not an AR.

[magic pilot]

the base MODEL is an lvoa

[rich cosmos]

Whos this replaying to?

Oh nvm

[magic pilot]

the stats are based on the police m4, the model is not

[rich cosmos]

I mean yea but model isn’t the greatest term to use here

As model could refer to the actual gun

[versed summit]

I think model is the best term tbh

It is a tad confusing tho

[hazy steeple]

We use model to refer to the gun it's based off in stats, yeah.

[magic pilot]

even in the spreadsheet LVOA-C is labeled the base variant of st elmo

[hazy steeple]

Under "Weapons" it is not, which does make me think that someome mistyped.

[rich cosmos]

Yea

[worn mango]

I'm not sure if anyone checked the base stat in PTS but right now it's based on M4 damage for sure

[hazy steeple]

That doesn't help lol, they're both types of m4.

Police m4 and lvoa-c, respectively.

[worn mango]

TIL LVOA a version an M4

[magic pilot]

im not talking about stats

it is correct, when the annouced st elmo they said it was an exotic "lvoa" for whatever reason, but theymade it an AR so police m4 was used for stats

[worn mango]

Yeah. Granted the LVOA is a great model for a gun so I get it

But the LV not having it's own rifle exotic kinda sucks

Maybe they'll just make an exotic rifle with the M4 model

[magic pilot]

lmao

would be funny

also, going off Ikia's spreadsheet ouro and f2k are still king of their respective categories

[hazy steeple]

Another reason to hate guns. They're all named so boringly.
Cmon, call it the murder shooter X. Get some roman numerals in here instead of just endless numbers.

[worn mango]

xxKillerMachineVIIxx

[hazy steeple]

I think I played Unreal Tournament with them back in the day.

[magic pilot]

the new AR is super close though and the calcs were done without talents, so it might be a big contender. its also basically tied in 4th for sustained

it depends on how strong the talent is with 1 mark imo

[worn mango]

Yeah, F2k best burst, 6th worst sustain

Overall burst buff, sustain nerf

What's the Ouro based on damage wise?

9mm vector?

[magic pilot]

yep the no stock one

[worn mango]

Oh Vector Tac

[magic pilot]

the 1886 is the best burst rifle 👁️

[worn mango]

I have UIC as best burst rifle

[magic pilot]

whats the burst dmg?

im seeing UIC as the lowest?

its almost 20% lower than 1886

[worn mango]

Oh, funny enough my formula wasn't working there lol

One moment please

[magic pilot]

i was gonna say

[worn mango]

Yeah, M16 #2 now

UIC is sustain

[magic pilot]

m16 super viable

its #1 in sustained and 2nd in burst

did that get changed to full auto?

[worn mango]

I meant to rank them too. I'd love to come up with a formula that could quantify an actual best in slot

But in reality if you're top 5 in both you're one of the best options

[magic pilot]

taking into account attachments?

[worn mango]

Well that's one thing that's an outlier would be # of attachments, but this is my first foray into spreadsheet shenanigans

[magic pilot]

oh boy

[worn mango]

I'm fairly new to the scene, I'm starting to geek out now with the new season

I love meta shifts and farming so I'm excited

See it's funny with AR's since I kinda now know most of them. I'd now consider the Honey Badger or FAMAS better because of that extra attachment over the F2k

But I think just looking at it from a pure base number value, it's a good starting point to know what guns to look at and focus on

[magic pilot]

honey badger is missing barrel slot dont forget

[worn mango]

Ah see I didn't know that. I've used it maybe once

So yeah, FAMAS is probably it

[magic pilot]

the named honey badger used to be decent, do you know if close and personal was buffed?

[worn mango]

Negative

Was it used in any specific builds or just a general gun?

[magic pilot]

it wasnt super common to see used but it was never bad

[worn mango]

Are attachments the only other variable in weapons would you say? I do wonder if it's something you can actually formulate with it's ranking for each burst/sustain and then weighted with how many attachments it can have

[magic pilot]

easiest way to figure out the difference would probably do the calc with the highest mag size attachment and all the chc mods

so most ARs would have 15% chc and +20 rounds

[worn mango]

Or CHD since now they are weighted equally whereas CHC was worth way more on mods

Now with CHD being worth 10 it's the same with the equivalent of mods being 6/12

So then maybe a +1 for each option that you have available to you, and then probably as a general weighting for burst/sustain/attachments would be 50/30/20 as a first pass

I'm really gonna go down a rabbit hole once I'm done being sick lol

[magic pilot]

yea you are

[worn mango]

Just even using a 65/35 weighting without attachments, M1928 is gonna be the best SMG lol

But rank 4/2 will do that

Holy crap, F2k pre patch was essentially 94% the 'best'

I also don't think people realized how good the AK-M was

[tulip charm]

ak-m var. was 3rd best ar iirc

Only to get nerfed in the pts :/

[worn mango]

Just using my burst and sustain arbitrary weighting it was #2, PDR #3

Now it'll be Honey Badger, F2k, PDR and AK-M

Once again though, gonna eventually add in attachment variable in here too

[tawdry raven]

huh guess oreo didnt get completely nuked on the dps charts, still not a fan of the mag size nerf tho

[tulip charm]

No dps wise its still the best option.

[tawdry raven]

the charts dont factor in talents tho right?

[tulip charm]

no

[worn mango]

You'd never be able to

That's build and personal preference

Way too many factors to account for

[tawdry raven]

chart i was looking at had a section for fast hands

[tulip charm]

I guess I need to get a good fal and aug

ikia right?

[tawdry raven]

yeah

[worn mango]

His DPS charts account for how fast you could get back into things or how much extra damage strained can account for

[tulip charm]

I mean fast hands can be cal since it only affects reload

[worn mango]

Yeah exactly, therefore helping sustain

[tawdry raven]

is there a chance there'll be a revision to the balances for the next PTS?

[tulip charm]

Yeah

[hazy steeple]

Just a note: what often happens is that if an item is going to get a change, there's not enough time to actually change it between phase 1, and phase 2 of the PTS, so they'll just tweak it for the live game instead.

So if a gun isn't "fixed" between each phase, don't freak out quite yet.

[worn mango]

Here's my chart now with the sorting by overall ranking in PTS. This is using a weighting of 65/35 for burst/sustain importance with no other factors. A decent start to my little project

[tawdry raven]

so odds are shouldn't expect anything in the next PTS

[tawdry raven]

ay that expensive honey badger skin i got finally good for something

[worn mango]

lol

They knew, this one is for you

[tawdry raven]

or they wanna sell it more

[worn mango]

Like mentioned above though, HB doesn't get a barrel so it would inherently lose some points elsewhere but all things considered, this will be fun once I flesh it out a bit

[tawdry raven]

it is one of the cleaner permanent skins

[worn mango]

I can't say I've ever seen it

Yeah, M1928 is gonna be super underrated I think in the new game

[tawdry raven]

kind of a bummer, tommy gun guy myself

[worn mango]

TG is #4

[tawdry raven]

especially after the bonny skin from a couple seasons back

[tawdry raven]

isnt in #1 in live rn?

[worn mango]

TG #2 behind the very dominant MP7

[tawdry raven]

wow banshee took a fall good thing i didnt go through buying that guns skin

and the mp7 sitting underneath it, ppl were saying the named one was really good after resolve

[worn mango]

I don't even know what the ability is on that

[tawdry raven]

it was like a ton of weapon handling after being swapped to

think it was 500 weapon handling, was practically an AR

[worn mango]

Yeah, can't really account for that one being any stronger since it's not doing anything damage wise

But handling does increase reload speed no?

[tawdry raven]

it does

accuracy, recoil, and reload

[worn mango]

M16 gonna be the best rifle

[tawdry raven]

not a huge rilfe guy but the ravenous being auto got me rethinking it

been really wanting ravenous to be usable

[worn mango]

I gotta get that thing but have barely played descent

[tawdry raven]

vindicator is the descent rifle

[solar sable]

It's from a raid lol

[tawdry raven]

ravenous is the raid one

[worn mango]

Oh yeah got em mixed up

What's vindicator based on?

Apparently MDR

[tawdry raven]

MDR

[worn mango]

And MDR is not good lol

[tawdry raven]

vindicator is getting 20% more amp to its talent tho i think

[worn mango]

Ravenous is SIG 716 but I'm not sure if that's the SIG or SIG CQB by designation

[tawdry raven]

rave is p416

[worn mango]

Says in the sheet and the wiki it's SIG 716

But that could just be model again, same thing as above with Elmo

Well Ravenous is considered a Rifle though

[nimble pilot]

Are hybrid builds good for pve?

[solar sable]

If done correctly, yes

You have hybrids in the spreadsheet

[nimble pilot]

Like the spread sheet

Ok

[solar sable]

like this hybrid by local (I lost the message link)

[nimble pilot]

What’s that gun

On the left

[worn mango]

Capacitor

[hexed steppe]

#td2-build-advice message

im pretty sure i recently found a handling roll that snuck in so chd is up 12 from the screenshots in original post

its gonne be taking a few hits in the new patch tho.. picaros/empress/ceska nerfs gonna hurt, but itll be interesting to see what a full auto harmony does

[hexed steppe]

there is a wide range of good and bad hybrid styles. the bad ones usually involve ninja bike bag 🥷 .
an easy way to hybrid without investing too much into the builds is by using memento+tech class. between the two you get 2 free yellow cores, free blue core (this assumes memento replaces a red core piece so red not free).
free 10% skill damage or repair from tech + faraday perk.
memento talent long buff when stacked equates to :
30% weapon damage
30% skill efficiency (% in all Skill Buckets™️ [drink up Dien] )
3% armor regen

plus all the core dependent short buffs if you pickup trophies (more wd, skill efficiency, bonus armor)
memento also only requires 1 trophy pickup every 5 minutes once stacked to maintain full long buff

all these bonuses are before even factoring in the rest of the build. you can give a lot of builds a pretty solid set of skill attributes for a very small tradeoff .

[solar sable]

drink up Dien

[rich lotus]

negotiator skill build with capacitor (sacrifice/gift) is legit too

[solar sable]

I fell in love with nego last night I made the build

[shut skiff]

Where do I go to find starter builds?

[solar sable]

I just feel overcapped in CHC for some reason

[solar sable]

Just play the main story with what it gives you, don't focus on builds before lvl40

[hexed steppe]

nego is 😍

[shut skiff]

I thought I saw an r

[hexed steppe]

once you hit 40 and have access to everything check the pins in this channel. spreadsheet has a lot of builds

[solar sable]

Amen

[hexed steppe]

i lot of ppl overlook nego 💯 . once you get it down its hard going back to striker

[solar sable]

I just wanted to forget about stacks

[hexed steppe]

then you get real deep into it and you start talkin smack to the npcs that are hiding but marked, like i do /s

[solar sable]

what was the dmg on a fully HE DPS build?

[hexed steppe]

similar to nego, single target*

[solar sable]

(I'm really getting bored because I don't have to worry about CP farming)

ah, well that helps

[rich cosmos]

I feel like umbra is about to become popular

Not as popular but certainly popular

[hexed steppe]

i was originally using he dps all the time then moved to nego after a long while. when hb came out then striker *was buffed i cba to make the builds

[onyx sage]

sorry, i'm sober 🛏️

[nimble pilot]

Why is that?

[rich cosmos]

Pretty noticeable buff, cheska nerf, rifles are apparently really good on umbra now

[hexed steppe]

rifles probably be a gamechanger for a lot of builds

[rich lotus]

Im not PTRing, but I'm looking forward to the negotiating with the exotic FAL

[solar sable]

From what I've been told it's technically the weapon version of nego lmao

[magic pilot]

That was the banshee

[vapid gull]

I need help with my build. I am currently running a True Patriot Build with the Chameleon. However, I dont know what my exotic should be. I was thinking maybe vile, if it considers my debuffs as things it can trigger off of, or Ridgeway's, for just increased damage overall and healing, or maybe even Catharsis. (Yes I am lost on which exotic I should pick)

[hexed steppe]

you dont always need an exotic, just for the sake of having exotic

vile pairs well with fire eclipse protocol.

true patriot is kindof a weak build if im being honest. if youre trying to do a team buff type of build look at ongoing directive. if just looking for a survivable dps look into hunters fury, or striker with some blue cores rolled. honorable mention heartbreaker and umbra for survival dps as well

im pretty sure all have a build guide in the pinned spreadsheet 📌

but for the record, vile is triggered when you apply a status, with the ep amp bag the vile damage ticks are good,
ridgeways chest is a close quarters that can pair ok with hunters fury (memento exo bag pairs better tho)
catharsis is strong in pvp, and also on tank builds like foundry bulwark. (tank builds in general kinda meh tho unless using them for a specific raid role)

[vapid gull]

Okay thanks

[worn mango]

@magic pilot doing custom weights now and I stole the attachment thing from ikia lol

[placid latch]

To be honest, F2000 and FAMAS are my fav AR

[worn mango]

And they'll still reign supreme

[placid latch]

It's not much about their DPS but more about their handling

[hazy steeple]

Handling is a part of DPS.

[worn mango]

And that's also another thing to consider which is hard to quantify. I like using the base numbers as a starting point and then you have to go feel it

[placid latch]

Even from long range you can aim

[worn mango]

A lot of people on the subreddit said they don't like Kingbreaker because it's handling. I'm fine with it

But if you can't hit shots with it, you can't

[placid latch]

I don't like Kingbreaker because of the precision

the area it shot is pretty big (and I tend to aim for head) so a lot of bullet goes around their head

[worn mango]

Yeah and that's just the bloom. But you also don't wanna waste attachments on accuracy

Then you're getting even less value

I think rifle is going to really come out on top if you can handle the stability

They're obviously going to kick like mules but if you're good with them you'll be rewarded

[hazy steeple]

People seeing Handling as just kick and/or bloom is honestly part of the issue with how they perceive guns.
It's 4 stats, 3 of which are pretty darn critical to your overall DPS, the 4th being important more-so if you swap between your guns, but even so.

[worn mango]

Well burst and sustain dps takes into account reload so that's already accounted for. So the other components would be accuracy/stability and then that's when you apply the numbers to in game logic. But you have to start somewhere instead of just throwing a random dart

M1A if you're only interested in burst damage and attachments is going to be the best rifle. And fully automatic just makes it even easier to use

[placid latch]

I did gather a build around Merciless. So I understand pretty well just how much handling is important

Being able to aim properly with ease allows to be efficient when you are in difficulty (aka when NPC rush you)

And that all that matter to me, being efficient in order to not die

[placid latch]

I don't see the MK17

[worn mango]

SCAR

[placid latch]

To be honest, I don't like the 3 bullets thingy about M16

Rifle are mean to be played mid-range

[worn mango]

Like I said, I think if you can handle them up close they're gonna be monstrous

[placid latch]

And that recoil 3 bullets make you waste so much

I tried to train that recoil on the M16

Not worth if you don't stack the 3 bullets

Else M1A does more damage and use way less ammo

Or if you want to hit like a truck: 1886

Especially the diamond back with his critical

[rich lotus]

diamondwho? that's not a determined 1886!

[vapid gull]

Is the Negotiator's Dilemma set any good with the Chameleon?

[solar sable]

not Chamaleon but anything else tbh

Chamaleon is just so inconsistent with its talent that makes it a free exo component lol

Not to mention its upcoming "buff"

[rich cosmos]

Its actually good

Burst fire is what makes it good and interesting

The m16 is getting a buff too

And so is behind you

So the named m16 is gonna be pretty good

Tbf all rifles should’ve been burst fire

[vapid gull]

This is tragic

[magic pilot]

M16 is first in burst second is sustained

It'll be pretty strong hopefully

[rich lotus]

I wish the 93r was full auto with the ptr damage boost and that they didnt touch the rpm, its really not used and more than likely still wont be now but it coulda fit in some super niche builds like heartbreaker bulwark or something

[hazy steeple]

With how div2 works, that'd just turn it into an smg.
What you're asking for is basically the d3 build from div1, but stronger since HB is gonna be broken as all hell next update.
Also yes, this is coming from someone who actually likes using it right now, the burst-fire thing is kinda neat.

[rich cosmos]

If div 3 keeps the rifle class, rifles should all be burst fire

[hazy steeple]

I'm starting a petition right now to not have Rifle but Assault, Rifle but Marksmen, and Rifle but just Rifle.

[rich cosmos]

I mean

Thats honestly worse than what we have now

Did div1 have rifles

I don’t remember

The rifle category basically just exists to screw over past ARs

For div 3 just call them DMRs and Marksman just snipers

[hazy steeple]

That is what we have now. Assault Rifles, Marksman Rifles, and Rifles.

[rich cosmos]

The rifle class actually lacks weapons that would fit

A lot of the rifles in the rifle class aren’t dmrs or even special

[rich cosmos]

^

Just change the rifle class into dmrs to make the name easier and to make a more clear distinction weapon wise

[hazy steeple]

Yes that's what I'm saying, they need to be re-named.

[rich cosmos]

Then make marksman rifles snipers and make them exclusively bolt action weapons

[magic pilot]

The whole rifle class should be removed

[hazy steeple]

They are a niche that we need. As long as there's enough of a distinction between them and AR/MMR's.

[rich cosmos]

Again the problem with it, is half the guns are just ars

Like, not special in anyway, not using a different ammo type, just regular ars but made to function differently

And they suck

[hazy steeple]

The majority of most gun categories suck, you aren't seeing people asking to remove all the AR's because a lot of them are awful.

I really need a new keyboard.

[rich cosmos]

I think you are missing the point though

Rifles are the least used weapons in the game by far

[hazy steeple]

I'm not missing the point, I'm disagreeing with your solution to the Rifle problem.

[rich cosmos]

My solution is for div3, they can solve it there by making rifles specifically dmrs, aka, mk14 and etc

You know, the rifles that are good

[hazy steeple]

In a perfect world, what they'd do is make the ones that are closer to AR's be under that category, the ones that are almost MMR's be that, and have their own niche be a good middle-ground between the two.
However: it's too late to do any of that for div2 at this point.

[rich cosmos]

Im not saying any of this for d2

D2 its too late

Too many weapons to rebalance so its a doomed class

[hazy steeple]

I'm not sure where div3 came into this, but I mean what we really-really need is to remove like half the guns from every category.

[rich cosmos]

Then you remove a lot of the looter elements of the game

[rich lotus]

dont need to remove anything, just make ARs not be laser beams and have big damage drop off past medium range

and require scopes on MMRs

[hazy steeple]

The problem is that a game that uses realistic or IRL guns is never going to be good for long term looter-shooter gameplay, since there's only so many ways you can configure weapons and have them be realistic.

[rich cosmos]

Or just do what I suggested, make the classes more specific, dmrs would be specifically a hybrid between ars and snipers, perfect for mid range, all being burst fire so you don’t destroy your fingers, could involve tons of weapons, like the dragnov, maybe an m4 with beowuld rounds, g27, etc

[hazy steeple]

Doesn't DMR mean designated marksman rifle?

[rich lotus]

yes

[rich cosmos]

Yes

Thats also why I specifically stated snipers should be specifically bolt action weapons

[hazy steeple]

So you want a Designated Marksman Rifle to be weaker than a Marksman Rifle and this would help clear up confusion over the world rifle?
oh you're using Snipers as a name, see the lowercase made it look like you were using the generic term.

[rich cosmos]

It would make the weapon classes more special and specific for a job

[hazy steeple]

like how I'd use "machine gun" to describe a fast firing gun, but we have sub and light as definitions ingame already.

[rich cosmos]

Smgs are sub machine guns

And ar has two different meanings

Armalite rifle and automatic rifle

[hazy steeple]

Yeah that sounds branded.

[rich cosmos]

Yes

[rich lotus]

It's like Armalite I think

[hazy steeple]

So hell no in a video-game.

[rich lotus]

5.11 is a brand

[hazy steeple]

I think the bulk of people know them as automatic or "auto" rifle.

[rich cosmos]

I mean ARs already are ars

[rich cosmos]

Lol

[hazy steeple]

5.11 is in the game because they did a deal with ubisoft years back.

they're in the ghost recon games too.

[rich cosmos]

Cod themselves stopped making real guns because they don’t want the licenses so they make them like 80% the real thing

[hazy steeple]

I mean, that's the smart way to do it. You avoid paying someone, and you get to give them wacky names.
Kross Vertex in pd2 is a personal favourite of mine.

[rich cosmos]

But Ubisoft uses the real things so they need to purchase the licenses to use them

[rich lotus]

Actually I think it's the other way around

pretty sure 5.11 PAYS to be in the game

[hazy steeple]

geddit, Kriss Kross. 90's folk, are you with me.

[rich cosmos]

I like how in the reboot mws they changed the design of the vector and accidentally designed it to where it physically cannot function

[hazy steeple]

Nah that's the fun of video-game guns.

[rich cosmos]

I don’t mind if it looks cool

And it does

Unlike Bethesda games

Lot of Bethesda games have cursed as hell gun designs

Its a little weird how ubi avoids making more well used weapons tho

Like they specifically avoid making glocks, or a standard ar15

[hazy steeple]

I mean, from as little a gun fan as I am, they've got a lot of the ones I recognise covered.

ar15 has....weight to it

[rich cosmos]

They usually go for the m4a1 specifically

I do like how they use the lvoa-c, in real life its not popular because its too overpriced for what it is

[hazy steeple]

lvoa-c is totally a fan gun from div1, and it's about to be full-auto again.
some of us are quite excited.

[rich cosmos]

Idk I hope div 3 keeps the rifle class but reworks it into something that actually has a place in the game, and not just half assault rifles and half snipers

[rich cosmos]

My tag on multiple forms of media is lvoacat, I’ve been waiting for this day for a long time

[magic pilot]

5.11 is a relatively small brand, I'm pretty sure they pay to be in the game

But as far as weapons licensing like using Kriss or H&K or Glock game devs will pay them

[sterile tartan]

"DMR"
"SPR"

Further confused by "MMR" and it's inclusion of 7.62/.30 chambered rounds in the class that are semi auto

Calibers vary wildly in this game gun to gun though "same round" reflected by totally different DPS. It's an RPG not an FPS at it's core.

[rich cosmos]

I get the argument of realism not being needed, but its even a problem in gameplay

I just hope div 3 changes the core system, I feel like damage at its core is very weird

I would love to see weapon damage be more universal and damage builds become more about precision and recoil

[tawdry raven]

if u want realism go play ghost recon

[rich cosmos]

Im not asking for realism and also ghost recon isn’t that realistic lol

Ghost recon has for the most part always been casual

I just think how division handles damage builds is bad

Especially for something that is based in a tactical shooter genre

[tawdry raven]

cuz it has pvp

[rich cosmos]

?