td2-build-advice

[muted hare]

Bet

[grizzled sedge]

Thx for pointer btw

[magic pilot]

It's crazy stats don't make up for it now though

It's one of the lowest ARs for burst dps

[muted hare]

Bruh first roll I got dtocc

[final orchid]

Famas and police m4 still good no?

[magic pilot]

4th from last actually

Famas is 4th but first in all the ones with all attachment slots

Police m4 is 4th from last like Elmo

[wise swallow]

what are the meta AR's now?

[magic pilot]

In order of burst dps, Elmo is the same slot as m4, exotics aren't all last separate category

Assuming no talent is active

[wise swallow]

so f2k and AKM

[shy willow]

Memento plus tech probs

Innate 30 percent CHD too

[wise swallow]

aegis is terrible

👍

[hushed saddle]

Aegis is bad?

[wise swallow]

very much

in PVP atleast

like 60% of the time it doesnt even get procced and if it does its only for PVP actively aiming at you

if they start missing you lose buff

I was thinking maybe itll be good for team fights assuming the proc will last for a little bit after they shoot you

but no it immediately goes away

and the fact that it barely procs is annoying

[random sigil]

Sooo, I see the list of burst dps AR's, but how bout actually using them in combat? example, before, I didn't like how the FAMAs felt and preferred M4 over it. How does the F2000 feel?

[wise swallow]

are we allowed to post streamable links here?

[random sigil]

Also, what's the best AR that can have a linked laser pointer for flatline?

[magic pilot]

I believe fal @random sigil

[random sigil]

mm okay, I've tried that on a HB build, but the low rpm made it difficult to maintain HB stacks. Guess I'll give F2000 a try

[visual plover]

F2000 feels okay in my experience

[random sigil]

mm, im guessing also that burst dps is more important than sustain? or does it depend? If so, is there a gun that does fairly well in both Burst and sustain?

[ancient dune]

The F2k and G36 are less accurate and slightly less stable than the famas or M4. The Fal is around as accurate and pretty stable but the rpm is fairly low

[magic pilot]

Generally sustained is only taken into account for bosses or high hp enemies

[ancient dune]

I'm feeling maybe about 30% more bloom

[random sigil]

That's good to know, so assuming M4 was my fav AR besides St Elmo's what would the best replacement be DPS wise with the closest "feel"

[ancient dune]

I'd say Fal if you don't mind the rpm, otherwise famas is still your best laser at range

Within 20m or so they're all pretty usable

[random sigil]

Really? I've always found the Famas to not really be accurate at longer ranges. Reminded me of why I don't like the Kingbreaker

[dreamy valve]

Fal? Dat mag size yo

[random sigil]

it's so small...

[ancient dune]

It's got pretty good damage across the mag post-buffs

And really good burst

[random sigil]

the Fal or Famas?

[ancient dune]

Fal

The downside is the lower rpm not working so well with striker

[random sigil]

yeah, even worse on HB

So, what would be the best choice for Heartbreaker builds?

[onyx sage]

it's just gonna be m4...

[ancient dune]

😢 back to M4

[random sigil]

that's kinda what I was thinking... at least they didn't nerf anything. it still feel good.

[ancient dune]

I've been using G36 and it's not bad

You just need to get used to the recoil

[random sigil]

for HB?

[surreal depot]

Chameleon

[ancient dune]

Yeah, it has an 800 rpm base now and it's not too far behind the top options

It can take the tech laser too

But the accuracy isn't so good and the recoil goes up and to the right

Take it for a spin and see how you like it

[random sigil]

hmmm, I'll have to put all of them in my inventory and try all of them.

[ancient dune]

I wasn't having too much trouble with the recoil but the accuracy doesn't feel good coming from the m4

[random sigil]

mmm, would you say it's better than kingbreaker?

[ancient dune]

If you can land every shot and stack with something else I think kingbreaker is hard to beat

[random sigil]

mmm, it is strong, i don't know why I'm not a fan of it lol

[ancient dune]

I'd need to double check the numbers though

[random sigil]

how's black market AK-M? I'm going through my stash right now and noticed I have one almost perfect rolled

[ancient dune]

Good if you don't mind the accuracy at range as always

I think the AK, Famas, Fal and F2k with normal flatline can compete with kingbreaker, assuming perfect conditions where all shots hit for all guns

[random sigil]

mm got it. also, can you link me the spreadsheet witht the data

[random sigil]

wait I thought the F2k doesnt have long underbarrel?

[ancient dune]

Ah I forgot haha I was just projecting damage

[random sigil]

no worries, i still wanna try it on my strikers too

[ancient dune]

I'm just going off my own one, I can link it but as a disclaimer there's probably some issues haha

[random sigil]

np

[ancient dune]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1n0Lyw7a1K-pQi6ILouVDk19sRfR8ApZvYLa1iT2PVto/edit?usp=sharing

[random sigil]

ty!

okay so i dont have a G36 but do have an F2k, FAL, Famas, and AK-M

Also, according to your spreadsheet, it looks like strained is the preferred talent?

[ancient dune]

It's probably the best talent for crit builds but it's also a bit conditional because you have to empty the whole mag in one go to get the full benefit from it

I'm mostly using it for comparison because it's the only talent where the order might change due to differences in mag size or rpm

And it's a decent representation of how much a gun might gain from a damage talent compared to something like fast hands

[random sigil]

mm okay makes sense

F2k reload speed feels nice

strained on it makes sense

question is, is losing that mod slot still make it higher damage over Famas?

[ancient dune]

Ya, in that comparison I've adjusted everything to have a fairly optimal distribution of crit chance and damage

[random sigil]

but, i will say out of F2k, Fama, Fal, and AK-M. F2k feels closest to M4

[ancient dune]

I just don't think the accuracy at range is as good

Was seeing a lot more scattered bullets testing on the wall at the back of the range compared to m4

[random sigil]

ah, ic. i just kinda fired it in the range to see how the kick felt between the 4 guns i mentioned

well, if anything, M4 didn't get weaker per se. soooo, if i never try the other guns, I'll never notice the damage isn't as high 😅

[flint wave]

🧠

[ancient dune]

Remember that the difference between the lower and upper ends is less than 10% 🥰

Nothing worth writing home about

[random sigil]

True, eff it, I'll wait till the build spreadsheet is updated to see what guns to look at and just use what ive been using lol.

still need to wait for more testing anyways

[ancient dune]

If you were willing to use the M4 instead of the famas before you can keep using the m4

[final orchid]

With kingbreaker i am assuming you need to run linked laser pointer

[flint wave]

duh

[final orchid]

aye idk still new to the game

I cant get this damn extended 7.62 mag though

prob not worth using until I have

[random sigil]

OH, what's the verdict on Rifles to use?

[dreamy valve]

Assault Rifles still better

[random sigil]

I know, but I like Rifles and rifle builds, which is why I'm asking.

[magic pilot]

Hunter killer bp

[shy willow]

Ah so now you can circumvent the hunters by descent

[dreamy valve]

I have to do some field testing for those rifles and the rest of the weapons that were changed, it’s just going to take time finding each one with dtooc so I can change its talents. I’ll know a little better by the end of this season

My personal favorite “rifle” is the SVD, even though it’s a marksman rifle huhuhuhu

Acts like a rifle but feels better than one

[magic pilot]

Yep basically lmao

[mental edge]

anyone know where you can find good builds? like for skills

[empty kiln]

check pinned spreadsheet

[mental edge]

ok thanks

[hushed gorge]

I have to wait 2 more days to reach home and play this game

Very hyped to use EB with DTTOOC

How was the Manhunt on Vanguard?

Any new locations or something?

[vestal ibex]

Any time I see someone excited for eb I just wanna tell them the capacitor has better burst DPS now cause it's just funny.

[rich cosmos]

Tbf, EB is cooler

[hushed gorge]

Sure but i dont use skill builds regularly

[vestal ibex]

Yeah but objectively cap might be a better weapon if you aren't hitting headshots which is dumb and funny.

[rich cosmos]

Still, EB is cooler

[vestal ibex]

Also the electrical effects cap does to the crusader shield is pretty cool. You need graphics turned up tho.

[rich cosmos]

The issue with EB previously was that it just wasn’t good enough

And now that it is, its worth using because its a cool gun

Plus people want to show off the raid exotic when they normally couldn’t

[vestal ibex]

The eb isn't special nor rare tho. If you like it use it. Personally I don't care for looks of anything so meh. It's a gun with less than ideal talent and mods to me.

[shy willow]

Eye for an eye lol

[shy willow]

It looks cool and the talent comes in handy sometimes

It has handling/CHC/CHD/ and a beeg mag

[forest hollow]

So what's a good build for the 1886 and grinding XP

An YouTube video showed it off but never gave good details about it

[shy willow]

Stash build

Better off with a determined d50 tbh

[white halo]

returnish player here whats a good dps gear set for solos ?

[forest hollow]

Stash build?

[forest hollow]

Does that mean junk? Or

[shy willow]

1886 overrated it handles like garbage

[forest hollow]

ah

Again my friend needed a build for getting shd levels and season levels fast and easy

So I was wondering about a good build for that

[dreamy valve]

They can still go for an M1A1

If they still want to play with a rifle

[forest hollow]

Ah

[dreamy valve]

Looks like the Resolute MK47 is buffed a bit might want to compare it with that too if they have both

This is all based on my past experience with the feel and handling of the weapons that I liked from the rifle class

The thing is, there isn’t a lot of gear sets that caters towards Rifles strictly, so they will have to rely on High End quality brand sets, and the problem with that is, is that it’s generally harder to get the right rolls and talents for them compared to gear sets, where it’s basically a lot easier to put together after a few countdown runs

[cedar tapir]

1886 even more useless now with the tac 308 rpm upgrade.

But the m700 and sr are fast enough for open world levelling

[shy willow]

I switched from white death to m700 carbon

[cedar tapir]

Model 700 I only use for legendary

Yeah me2, but I am leaning more towards sr now.

[dreamy valve]

Man I haven’t touched the SR class since year one

Probably why they gave it the biggest damage buff from the snipers

[fallen comet]

is F2000 better than famas now? or should i keep my famas with optimist?

[vestal ibex]

I think on burst if you factor CHC/CHD loss it's about even but sustain is way higher on f2000

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12vzrBI53INNVcKx25ILuvwIgJDg2xUvOO_IA0uctlwE/edit#gid=0

[supple slate]

anyone found a build with mender seeker mines and perfect Explosive Delivery??

[dreamy valve]

Whu

[hushed gorge]

Did The Capacitor also receive a buff?

[supple slate]

the explosions from that talent keeps triggering when you throw your mender seeker mine

so you have a healing and exploding seeker mine which can follow

[dreamy valve]

Haven’t tried it yet myself

[supple slate]

it even works with the traps

[gentle lichen]

In pvp it's overtuned to the max

[supple slate]

think the perfect explosive delivery can disable all sniper builds with the explosion shaking, pretty hard to aim if explosions going off all the time

[vestal ibex]

All exotic weapons did technically. With the reconfiguring you can have DTTOOC on all exotic weapons and cap already has damage to armor so it's quite a lot of damage it gets from those two attributes.

[shy willow]

Unfortunately you cant optimise its DTA because it doesnt exist

Which is really sad

[vestal ibex]

Oh yeah that's not a stat and the new system messes that up huh?

[glossy scarab]

they'll fix it eventually

[shy willow]

Yep

[hushed gorge]

Is mosquito on the battle pass?

[shy willow]

I hope so

[shy willow]

T90 or something yeah

[vestal ibex]

Normal season tho. Don't need to pay.

[hushed gorge]

Ik

I didn't spend a single penny in this game (except the price of this game)

Btw
How is it?

I heard the new gloves and pistol were trash

[vestal ibex]

Same. But when you say battle pass usually that's a paid thing.

[hushed gorge]

Battle Pass free tier enjoyer me

[vestal ibex]

New pistol and gloves serve no real purpose outside of memes imo.

[shy willow]

I can see the pistol being a really niche sort of thing

[hushed gorge]

Memes
So its even worse than the Sleigher?

[shy willow]

But the gloves are straight ass

[vestal ibex]

Gloves are gonna make no aim runs off stuff happen I'd assume.

[shy willow]

Did they say they were changing it to handling and accuracy bonuses or is it still all hip fire/blind fire

[vestal ibex]

Not sure. No change is going to help it unless hip/blind fire gets a sort of damage buff.

[supple slate]

think its as useless as those melee items

[south shadow]

at that point might as well use sweet dreams lmao

[shy willow]

Something similar to the old Tommy talent might help if the damage was big enough

[vestal ibex]

Yeah like if it had a stacking over time while hip/blind firing that might make it usable.

[supple slate]

they tend to implement some nice items but without the right buffs they are still not worth it

[dreamy valve]

The gloves are the laziest exotic design in this game yet imo

[vestal ibex]

As for the exotic pistol I think it could have use in a couple situations but it's mostly meme or I'm trying to compensate and help a really bad team kinda thing.

[shy willow]

Yeah at least it's not completely useless

Iron grips are just ugh atm

[dreamy valve]

Every suggestion from the pts channel for the gloves were far better than what they have come up with

The design is so bad, it doesn’t even take a developer to improve upon it, so that tells me there is something seriously wrong with the green lighting process for gear like this to make it to the live game

[tawdry sequoia]

Has anybody else been finding the buffed eagle bearer a little lackluster? Honestly I think i did better with Elmo's because of it's accuracy. Maybe i need SHD levels in accuracy?

[shy willow]

I much prefer EB

Less boring with tenacity

Feels great to use tbh

[tawdry sequoia]

The main problem im finding

is that I can't lazer enemies like i could with elmos lol

Elmos had much higher effective range because the dot moves less

[vestal ibex]

Elmo is probably much better considering its mod stats.

[tawdry sequoia]

Statistically im pretty sure EB is stronger, but yes Elmo does have much better mods

Honestly I think EB might be better for higher SHD level players

[vestal ibex]

Ehhh I'll give you the damage comparison sheet

I think they are super close.

[tawdry sequoia]

and Elmo is better for lower players

[vestal ibex]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12vzrBI53INNVcKx25ILuvwIgJDg2xUvOO_IA0uctlwE/edit#gid=0

[shy willow]

Elmo is easier to use I just find EB more entertaining

[vestal ibex]

Based on just stats and no CHC/CHD or HSD factored I'd pick Elmo over EB.

[tawdry sequoia]

Yea thats what im thinking

I like eagle bearer and all, but the accuracy is just killing me IMO

like i aim at head and it hits shoulder

and then i dont get perk

[shy willow]

Doesn't EB get ramped up accuracy

[tawdry sequoia]

yeaaaa but

what about the first half of the mag lol

I think once i get some levels in SHD accuracy i think it'll be much better

but until then i think i gotta stick with Elmo

[patent elm]

So with Capacitor buff is it finally time to run yellow striker

[tawdry sequoia]

Oh boy lol

[tulip charm]

💀

[tawdry flare]

Yeah cause the handling is good and that makes a lot of difference

[tawdry flare]

Who made the sheet though

[tulip charm]

kia iirc

[tawdry flare]

Ikia you mean?

[tulip charm]

Ye

[hexed steppe]

You put too much faith in higher shd making things better.
It doesnt... if a weapon feels like trash @ low shd then at 1000+ itll still feel like trash.

[tepid trout]

I've never heard anyone compliment accuracy watch points before 😆

[tawdry flare]

Well shd is pointless now altogether

Health is capped

[hexed steppe]

That never mattered

[hazy steeple]

People underestimate WH as a stat fairly consistently.
as long as your main stats are "locked down", then you absolutely should take it on builds using a gun.

[hexed steppe]

So health cap is 60k bonus* atm iirc.... at my current shd before patch I was only at 130k... it still would disappear in 1 shot

[hazy steeple]

'deck is 100% right btw. The vast majority of that health bonus in PvE would be removed by long-falling off a slightly too high ledge.

[tepid trout]

I mean people at level 800k+ using the descent exploit were pretty damn unkillable

[hexed steppe]

Pvp the only place it mattered. The only way to really utilize the health benefit was pushing 1m shd

[hexed steppe]

There was a ton of rollback after that.
I dont see anyone over 50k at this point

[hazy steeple]

I admit, it's very satisfying watching all these people who exploited their SHD up high as a bragging right now staring at 100, 000 levels of nothing.

[tepid trout]

Ik but for the weeks it was active it was unplayable

Pvp I mean

[hexed steppe]

Weeks, months ago.

Shoulda just stayed out of pvp ig

[tepid trout]

I'm not a pvp player dude It just became 150x worse as all the players ran red HF with 2m hp and all red and melted you

[hexed steppe]

The health bonus at this point is capped at 2k but its equivelent to the 15k health bonus pre-resolve

[tepid trout]

11k

30k for first 1k levels and 30k for the next 10k

[hexed steppe]

Doubt. I know what I had prior to resolve, and the current cap is a little less than half that bonus. I place it around 15k equivenance.
It's just more pandering to low shd players boosting it so much... too bad they didnt just remove it completely

Not like it matters anyways

[tawdry flare]

Now you can do it with 5.11 and ceska with ninjabike so they made impossible possible

[tulip charm]

I hope next season gearset is beserk 2.0

[tawdry flare]

Or Lone Star

I wonder sentry with head hunter

[tulip charm]

honestly tp can be reworked into lone star imo

fits the american theme

[tawdry flare]

Yeah

[flint wave]

headhunter working with sniper turret when

[tulip charm]

when it becomes sentient

[flint wave]

⠀

[tawdry flare]

Reload on swap speed

[tepid trout]

The hp increase is inconsistent and drops from 30 to 3 its not a debate 60khp is level 11k equivalent

[winged raft]

Does the spec matter for the build? Since some of them have bonuses for specific stuff or is that mostly negligible

[hazy steeple]

Sometimes a spec matters quite a bit, most of the time it's fairly "eh".
Which build are you going for?

[winged raft]

Ep with capacitor

[tulip charm]

If fire ep go firewall

[winged raft]

Yeah that's what I was thinking, just didn't know if the what, 10% bonus is worth it

[hazy steeple]

What would you use instead? I assume Survivalist.

If you're in a group that might be the winner since 10% bonus damage for them.

or Technician for the bonus Skill Damage+free core I guess.

[livid bridge]

for a shotgun with striker, whats best paired with it? talent wise

[tawdry flare]

Mhh Scorpio for exotic six12 with something like optimist/strained pummel will be worth it depending on difficulty

[shy willow]

I understand aegis is a shit set butttt

What would I run with it to make it less painful to get proficient with

[marsh hare]

It's not that bad of a set, made a legendary tank build with it last night and ran capitol legendary with it, wasnt too bad actually

[livid bridge]

its literally designed for you to tank. imagine a 4 piece of it with unbreakable? i dont know how mandatory the chest is

[marsh hare]

I ran 4 piece with pointman was quite fun

[winged raft]

well I was thinking it's mostly preference

[hazy steeple]

It's less preference and more what you want to do a little better.

e.g. Gunner isn't going to be that useful on it since the only benefit it really gives your build is 10% Armour on Kill (AoK)

[winged raft]

wait, do things that refer to "group members" not count you?

[hazy steeple]

Just the group, aye.

[winged raft]

why

logically you are also part of the group

[hazy steeple]

Div2 is a little weird sometimes, you get used to the eccentricities.

[tepid trout]

A lot do

For example thr group damage boost from grenadier does

[winged raft]

thats even weirder that it's not consistent

[hazy steeple]

^

[winged raft]

firewall it is then

[sterile scarab]

Ouroboros still highest dmg gun in game post update?

[magic pilot]

Dps and yes

[sterile scarab]

@magic pilot thanks a lot

[mossy dirge]

You gys have a great aegis build image? Cant find

[tepid trout]

Kinda

Any non exotic + blb(if you can stack) is stronger normally

For example a shotty and blb is millions per pellet but only if you have the ads to stack and can do it fast

[sterile scarab]

Whats blb?

[bronze hound]

busy little bee

[sterile scarab]

Oh ok thanks

[urban latch]

That's not really a helpful comparison though.

Like we don't talk about dch + Achilles + regulus shits in terms of dps for the same reason

[bronze hound]

i mean i got range numbers to 70 mil dps

[flint wave]

cuz it isn't dps

[latent bough]

Did the hotshot build change with the new update ?

[drifting panther]

@shy willow i looked and i guess i'll get a striker build

i just see this spreadsheet but i'm very dyslexic.

[maiden hare]

Hello all I was just messing around and realized I have an Acosta that would add a second piece bonus to all the stuff I have, would love to hear what you all this about this

[urban latch]

No

[shy willow]

4 pieces strikers + ceska chest with obliterate and coyotes/grupo mask

[shy willow]

That's ninjabike and unfortunately it sucks

[drifting panther]

thats my boy

[ancient dune]

2 habsburg became marginally stronger at least

[urban latch]

Very simply put, the benefits you get from the ninjabike backpack are not worth the tradeoffs your giving up

[shy willow]

Then after the first bit you wanna switch to a striker chest and have a grupo/ceska piece on the ready to swap to

Everything rolled to crit chance and damage

[bronze hound]

how

(genuine question i dont know lol)

[onyx sage]

2p is 20% mmr damage now

[ancient dune]

they gave it 5% more mmr damage

[bronze hound]

ah cool

[urban latch]

Actually there is one big change, the m700s and SRS are now the top MMRs over the m44/white death

[drifting panther]

so have a striker mask?

[onyx sage]

unicorn gaming prevails in the end

[ancient dune]

still looking for that habsburg vigilance

[drifting panther]

i have 5 M700s that are godrolled

:3

[latent bough]

Just the basic ones or the named versions ?

[bronze hound]

:3

[ancient dune]

SR-1 too

[onyx sage]

both

[ancient dune]

honestly the 90 rpm tac .308 feels really good in content where it can oneshot too

so anything below legendary

[flint wave]

and below 3 player scaling probavly

[shy willow]

Order doesn't matter as long as you have the striker bag at all times along with a ceska obliterate chest and a striker chest

Mask can be coyote or grupo

[ancient dune]

after the changes 3/2/1 is a gain of only like 200k bro I think it's even less worth the miserable grind than before 😭

[drifting panther]

i only use grupo since i'm not comfy with coyote anymore

[latent bough]

So either, srs, pinprick, m700 or ekim long stick ?

[onyx sage]

just use the base model 700

[ancient dune]

+SR-1, no pinprick, no ekim

[bronze hound]

im personally in favour of the ELS

or whatever that new m700c is

[ancient dune]

brutus right

[latent bough]

And still no big difference between 4p and 3p hotshot ?

[ancient dune]

there's not really much difference between 3p and 2p hotshot either

if dropping another hotshot can get you more weapon damage or mmr damage it's better

[tepid trout]

The thing is the positives outweigh the negatives

I think it's a bit easier to explain as seconds of shooting

Let's say you're slow and to get 4 stacks it takes you 5 seconds

[ancient dune]

I mean, if we're talking TTK we can bring headhunter builds in

and then nothing else will compare 😴

[onyx sage]

headhunter bros 🙂

[ancient dune]

can't beat killing everything in one bullet, even better if your bullet explodes and kills everything around it

[tepid trout]

Within the 10 seconds of blb you get 80% more damage and you spent 15 seconds for 18seconds of damage

[ancient dune]

this is just a very niche argument

[tepid trout]

I'm not talking to you

[ancient dune]

how often do you need to drop 200 million damage on one dude

[tepid trout]

Tens of times a day

I raid

But he was asking if oreo is still highest damage

[urban latch]

I wouldn't say swapping to blv, shooting 4 separate targets, and swapping back to your main target in 5 seconds is slow

[tepid trout]

My response was kanda as I believe it is the highest "no prep damage"

[urban latch]

That's quite an aggressive assumption

[tepid trout]

True if they're seperate

You can stack as they come out and swap to famas

[ancient dune]

😴 the context they were asking in was obviously for general use not for this extremely specific use case

[tepid trout]

I mean general use though

I run blb in missions often

Not worth it on challenging or hard though

[urban latch]

So they come out as a group close together, and you shoot them with blb, by the time your back to the FAMAS they've already spread out and are shooting at you. If we're talking about groups of ads coming out of a door, the last thing we want us to be wasting our time swapping weapons, that's when we want our burst of damage

[drifting panther]

@shy willow what should i have for backpack

[urban latch]

If we're also talking about exotic pistols taking on groups of ads, regulus....

[tepid trout]

Most players don't have the regulus

[shy willow]

Striker

[tepid trout]

There's also all the scenarios where you can prep stacks to get 2x the damage for no trade off

[vestal ibex]

I've never heard someone argue BLB and a HE weapon is better than ouro because that's dumb.

[tepid trout]

In the incursion which most players are going to nowadays you can bee stack for lovebirds and Wright and swap when immunity drops

[vestal ibex]

Ah yes when you should get striker stacks. Also 1-2 stacks of BLB?

Not worth.

[ancient dune]

You've picked a very strange hill to die on

[shy willow]

But you could just use an ouro and stack up on them with an acs

[tepid trout]

Admittedly the raids are less played and voids the next example slightly but also for bosses like boomer, dogs, gray and Williams you can easily bee stack

[ancient dune]

tbf, you could probably outdamage ouro with a shotgun if you were up the mobs ass

[tepid trout]

The current meta strat for dogs is striker stack bee and then six12

[urban latch]

Like.... Blb in the right situation is absolutely strong, arguably completely busted OP. But in the conversation of comparing DPS, it's really not relevant

[blissful sphinx]

isnt there a way for me to research this then craft it to try and get god roll or am i wrong

[tepid trout]

You need to recalibrate it

For dttooc

[vestal ibex]

You can't recal exotics?

[blissful sphinx]

?

[ancient dune]

even with no BLB required, six-12 and acs do outdamage ouro at like 5m on a striker build iirc

[urban latch]

That's the lfg strat so you only need 2 shooters, since it's literally quicker to just regulus them without blb as a group

[tepid trout]

Shotguns are lowjey busted in this game

[flint wave]

I was gonna say something like that but the comment was old

[tepid trout]

I don't mean 1 shot

[tepid trout]

Reroll*

Mb

[vestal ibex]

Reconfigure*

[sullen night]

Reconfigure, not recalibrate, I think it's a bit important to use the correct terminology here since especially new players are understandably already at maximum confusion

[urban latch]

If your stacking blb in baggage then why not just 1 tap them at that point lol.

[ancient dune]

so true dcgh regulus gaming 🙏 🙏 🙏

[tepid trout]

Not bee stacking in baggage

[blissful sphinx]

and where do i do that

[tepid trout]

2 stacks of blb six12 outdamages practically everything for burning bars normally

[blissful sphinx]

nvm think i gotcha

[sullen night]

Yea that's the thing you need, then you do it at the crafting station I think (?) Not sure if it's different with the new update

[shy willow]

Same as always

[covert meadow]

Can I put dttooc on my scorpio now or does it have to be rolled?

[shy willow]

Reconfigured

[blissful sphinx]

if im not wrong isnt the shield splinter now better than st elmos?

[ancient dune]

I dunno boss it's just such a specific thing to be pushing and there are a lot of builds that can do good numbers in specific content so it feels strange you brought it up in response to someone asking if ouro was still best

[covert meadow]

Is that inya @shy willow and ty?

[urban latch]

I'm sure it works, but like... A group of ouro strikers will take them down in seconds as well. We're splitting pointless hairs here with multiple strategies for ultimately an easy fight

[shy willow]

Buy the reconfigure from inaya if you don't have it

[ancient dune]

it would be like if I responded "nah actually ravenous weakpoint stacking to do 700 million in one shot is better"

[shy willow]

Then reconfigure it at the crafting bench

[covert meadow]

Ok cool

Ty

[tepid trout]

It's more min maxing to make it easier

[urban latch]

There's nothing more min/maxing than 1 tapping them, which is stupid easy

Like all the coordination it takes is 3/8 people who know what to do, and to tell the other 5 to take a snack break

[drifting panther]

i mean if i swap

[tepid trout]

Most lfgs don't care for time so we don't but it's not as if it doesn't exist

Most people don't even care for dog 1 tap if you aren't 2 phasing

[shy willow]

Wdym

[drifting panther]

you said order doesn't matter

[tepid trout]

I'm like the only lfg player who does 2 phase for fun

[shy willow]

Except the chest and bag yes

Hold on lemme pull it up

[drifting panther]

oh. but you said chest has to swapped at some point for striker

[tepid trout]

Nobody else cares unless you can get ~1:45 on tarmac sub 2 on boomer sub 1:30 on triplets and dogs 1 tap

[vestal ibex]

Yeah in tanker and thru to finish.

[vestal ibex]

These are bad times tho.

[tepid trout]

I'm not talking about speedrunning

So not at all

[drifting panther]

that i get

[vestal ibex]

You are talking to a couple people who do actually speed run that tho.

[shy willow]

Post tanker and pre tanker respectively @drifting panther

[vestal ibex]

Raucey has a 6 min time.

[drifting panther]

what about the bloody knuckles

[tepid trout]

We aren't talking about speedrunning dude

[shy willow]

What SHD are you

[tepid trout]

We're talking about what scenarios I normally see dog 1 tap in lfgs

[drifting panther]

almost 3k

i have bloody knuckles but like

[shy willow]

Ah yeah then totally run bloody knuckles

[tepid trout]

I was saying how people don't care unless you do it all

[drifting panther]

the 1st image i'm trying to understand

[shy willow]

And use lefty as a secondary

[tepid trout]

On xbox

[drifting panther]

i have lefty but i should check if its there

[shy willow]

Bloody knuckles and sledgehammer proc on nades simultaneously

Big damage

[vestal ibex]

You seem like you are struggling to make sense of strange BLB situations and are fixed on this one thing now.

[drifting panther]

so to understand again

should i actually switch with the 1st image you sent me if its on tanker

[ashen atlas]

Why don’t you check the builds that are in pinned messages

[drifting panther]

i did with the spreadsheet

but as i said i'm very dyslexic.

[ashen atlas]

Oh wait it’s not in pinned messages it’s somewhere else someone could post that link plz

[ashen atlas]

Oh ok yes there are many builds you can test it

[shy willow]

Yes after turrets switch to that

But ignore my rock n roll and use lefty

[drifting panther]

understood

i'm lucky i have it because its okay ig

i might have to switch out dmooa tho

[shy willow]

It's really good for the bosses because they like to sit still at certain times

Hit em with a nade with that setup and you'll do serious damage

[drifting panther]

run st elmos engine too right

wait there's a grupo vest

i thought i had to use ceska

[shy willow]

Before tanker yes

[shy willow]

I only have grupo on cuz I got it before a ceska one and couldn't be bothered to farm for it

[drifting panther]

oh.

[shy willow]

But ideally ceska

[drifting panther]

its just uhm. i have a grupo in my stash

[shy willow]

More bang for your buck on crit

[drifting panther]

thats has obliterate

[shy willow]

If you have a grupo with oblit and crit damage and chance then totally use that

It doesn't really make a difference

[drifting panther]

good.

i can start the farm for strikers then

just my luck

THAT REMINDS ME WELL

[onyx sage]

what is that crop

[drifting panther]

freeform

[hazy steeple]

I want to kill it with fire, it looks infected.

[drifting panther]

you're no fun

a friend introduced me to it and i've liked it ever since

plus its kinda better than this in a way

like the rectangle

[vestal ibex]

Rivens get the EP build on!!

[shy willow]

🔥🔥🔥

[tepid trout]

1 tap dogs is not a strange scenario

Just not as cared for in lfgs

[shy willow]

The LFG circuit on Xbox is a surreal experience

[vestal ibex]

Yeah but 2 stacks of blb is strange.

[tepid trout]

It's the normal strategy now when doing normal dps on xbox

[blissful sphinx]

this still good?

[vestal ibex]

PvP?

[blissful sphinx]

both pve and pvp

[vestal ibex]

Not good for pve but ehhh in PvP unless you can stack.

[blissful sphinx]

currently have this for pve but isnt that efficient in countdown as i dont always get kills

[shy willow]

Cuz you runnin blues, on hf, on countdown

Wait misread

[drifting panther]

i'm still confused what to use after tanker as primary

[shy willow]

You won't have ouroborous so stick to Elmo

[drifting panther]

alright.

[blissful sphinx]

i need a diff build that doesnt rely on kills for group pve

[shy willow]

Alternatively you can use a high end primary and scorp as a secondary

[blissful sphinx]

but dk what to go for

[drifting panther]

i would have lefty tho

[shy willow]

Ah yeah

[flint wave]

Use acs if ur within range it does more dps then ouro

[shy willow]

So yeah use the lefty and elmo

[shy willow]

Striker

[drifting panther]

why does lefty look so glossy

as if someone put lube on it

[blissful sphinx]

was gonna do this but again needs kills

[shy willow]

Take the blues off

[blissful sphinx]

surely id be as squishy as anything then

[shy willow]

You don't need blues

[vestal ibex]

Wat?

[shy willow]

Memento is enough

[blissful sphinx]

my point is i dont always get the kills in countdown though

[flint wave]

what even is this spreadsheet tho

[shy willow]

Then don't use memento

[vestal ibex]

It's THE spreadsheet linked in the pinned messages.

[shy willow]

Memento isn't good for group activities

[flint wave]

nvm the rock and roll is accurate

[blissful sphinx]

in this instance what wouldi swap it for

[flint wave]

I'm more talking about rock and roll and strained acs not lefty

[shy willow]

Take the striker chest off and replace it with a striker bag

Replace the chest with ceska obliterate

[flint wave]

take off 1-2 blues and this is the solo legendary build lol

[vestal ibex]

idk if thats good advice at all tho. The bloom and missed shots I don't think are going to bridge that gap most of the time.

[flint wave]

you aren't missing any shots at sneezing range

[shy willow]

That's why tis only recommended if you're up the bosses ass

[flint wave]

which is easy to be at with incur bosses

[magic pilot]

Love how they talk to you souless

[urban latch]

Especially once you factor in crit, the acs is way behind the ouro

[vestal ibex]

idk I don't buy it. You can easily put all shots into their face with ouro but a RNR ehhh.

[magic pilot]

You still have the wr?

[shy willow]

Ive been hearing loads lately about the six12 and ACS outdpsing ouro at point blank

[vestal ibex]

Breh I don't even think people are gonna touch it at this point. We have told eveyone how and what we did too. I don't think I've seen people get 6:30s without drag and determined HH on tanker.

[magic pilot]

What's the closest time you've seen?

[magic pilot]

I don't think the six12 comes close

[flint wave]

It's definitely not "way behind"

[vestal ibex]

Actually now that I think of it yeah it would be, ouro has what 31 CHC on it. ACS gets 15?

[flint wave]

it's only behind if your playing at slightly longer range

[urban latch]

Acs literally needs to be point blank to be landing all its pellets

And basically no one is setting up their acs at the crit cap

[flint wave]

yea

that's why you shouldn't be playing at smg range with it

[vestal ibex]

So what about the huge DPS loss on CHC being way down?

[flint wave]

it's like using a non determined sniper at arm range and being surprised it underperforms

actually a better example is hhf m870 at smg range

I know yall like that

[urban latch]

When I saw point blank j don't mean like a couple steps away, I mean literally touching them. I also want you to check your chc on your build with acs and let me know so we can compare the acs a point blank missing 0 pellets vs ouro

[vestal ibex]

Ah yes apples to grapefruit. Best comparison.

[flint wave]

Acs and m870 headhunter play at the same range

[vestal ibex]

Who does ACS HH? Who compares ACS to M870 HH?

[flint wave]

never said acs hh, u know what I mean

[onyx sage]

i think he's just talking about range

[vestal ibex]

Next we gonna compare roller blades to drag cars?

[onyx sage]

let's chill for a bit

[flint wave]

if you ever used hhf without regulus and d50 is not reliable atm then m870 is all u got

[vestal ibex]

idk what he is talking about any more.

[flint wave]

from the very beginning I factored in range lmao

just trying to find a way to prove me wrong

[onyx sage]

if i'm reading it correctly akthompson is trying to compare acs crit range with m870 hh range, and the fact that we're already comfortable with m870 hh range means we should be comfortable with acs crit range

correct me if i read this all wrong

[tawdry flare]

I haven't seen AK Thompson for days

[onyx sage]

elmo is akt lol

[flint wave]

people are more familiar with the range you have to play at to get good performance out of m870 hh so apply that range to getting peak dps with ACS

[tawdry flare]

He should name himself White tusk helicopter

[flint wave]

brug

[drifting panther]

i have an idea

What if i just only had one ceska or something or grupo

wait no

@shy willow sorry for annoying, 4 pieces with one grupo chest and bloody knuckles

[tawdry flare]

I don't know anyone using acs as main dps it is just for stacking and killing thing at close range or sledge with lefty

[onyx sage]

acs as main dps is quite good tho

[urban latch]

One ceska instead of the grupo

[vestal ibex]

I wouldn't over think the strikers build too much for the incursion, 1 pc grupo, ceska, coyotes, contractors gloves mixed in however will get you there.

[flint wave]

I use rock and roll all the time In heroic CD it's the most consistent at one magging those 32 million health dudes

[tawdry flare]

I will use six12

[flint wave]

provided these guys are in range

and not running away from me

[onyx sage]

i use six12 too, acs12 makes my ammo economy crash harder than the tech industry

[urban latch]

What's the chc and chd on your acs for the striker build you typically run with?

[drifting panther]

i was told to use either like, grupo chest if i don't have a ceska chest

[shy willow]

Striker chest gives better top end damage

[drifting panther]

i have a ceska mask and a grupo mask

[tawdry flare]

Yeah it blows the ammo economy

[flint wave]

19.5 usually since I run the chc attribute to match my primaries crit

10% without

[tawdry flare]

That is like way tooo low it is 33% for me on my oreo build so you are doing something wrong

[flint wave]

this is the max chc you can get with acs

[tawdry flare]

You can get it to 60 use 6% CHC mods

[flint wave]

bruh

[tawdry flare]

Nice mask

[drifting panther]

thanks

[urban latch]

Ok, so your assuming the mid buff, which you won't be getting with acs at point blank range. So how much CHD do you have?

[drifting panther]

i'll just use both a ceska mask and grupo chest and go with the build

[flint wave]

you won't be getting mid buff with ouro either

[urban latch]

No, which is why I recommend you should run more chc lol, but that's not the point

[flint wave]

I forgor my chd

[urban latch]

Can I assume 150%?

[dreamy valve]

Keep that build, it’s wonderful

[flint wave]

152 if 4pc striker with ceska and 3 crit damage mods

[magic pilot]

Assuming running grupo, coyotes mask the acs would be at 38/156 without swapping anything around

[flint wave]

I don't usually run with 3 crit damage mods so it would be somewhere at 120 for me

[magic pilot]

And 59/166 for ouro

[flint wave]

if I gave up one crit dmg attribute for one crit chance attribute to build entirely into acs/rock and roll then 140 chd from 152 chd

57.5 chc

[magic pilot]

What build are you using where you only need 6% chc to get to 57 on acs

[flint wave]

I have crit chance attribute on my acs because it's usually crit starved by elmo or ouro being my primary

[magic pilot]

Wtf

[flint wave]

the chc attribute is 9.5

[glossy scarab]

Crit chance as a third attribute can be useful for being able to pair it with ouro. so ur secondary has a fair chc

[blissful sphinx]

not for group stuff though

[urban latch]

Ok. So when we hit a crit, that's going to do 2.52x you non crit.

So basic formula I just tossed into excel:
(Chc x crit multiplier) + ((1-chc) x 1)

With 19% chc, your crits are averaging 28.8% increased damage over 0% chc.

If you swap to ouro, so you'd have 50% chc, youd get a 76% increase in damage from crit.

If you were at the chc cap (and not changing CHD) you'd get a 91% increase in damage.

Being at the chc cap is very important. The acs being at 19% simply makes it weak vs something that's at/near the cap. Also the ouro is already roughly 20% stronger at base burst dps without crit, so comparing the two:

Ouro: 1,000k x 1.76 = 1.76m
Acs: 850k x 1.288 = 1.1m

There's literally a 60% difference in damage, assuming you hit 100% of the pellets on the acs

[blissful sphinx]

@dreamy valve i need to swap some stuff to make it efficient for groups

[flint wave]

how does ouro jump to 50% chc while acs stays at 19%

thought ouro was 31%

[magic pilot]

19% is shared between the 2

[flint wave]

2 crit chance weapon mods and 9.5 crit chance as a third attribute doesn't share with the other gun

[vestal ibex]

9.5 CHC vs DTTOOC? Are we putting more CHC on ouro to make it similar?

[urban latch]

I think he has chc on acs instead of dtooc

[flint wave]

yea

[vestal ibex]

Which is a total damage loss anyway right?

[urban latch]

Ok.... What is the chc of your acs on your build.......

Which is what I keep asking lol

It's going to be a very similar conclusion lol

[flint wave]

if I was building into acs on a complete striker build

[urban latch]

The build you actually use

[vestal ibex]

Naw just juice up the ACS unfairly and compare.

[magic pilot]

First craft btw

[flint wave]

51.5 chc 152 chd

[urban latch]

We can put the acs at 60% and over cap the ouro by 21% and it'll still win by 15%

[flint wave]

but you guys build into ouro anyways

[urban latch]

Why is that

[vestal ibex]

Hence why I said just super juice the ACS to give it a huge advantage.

[flint wave]

One crit damage to crit chance mod swap isn't super juicing

[vestal ibex]

#td2-build-advice message

21% CHC lost to over cap and being 15% stronger than no stat loss on ACS isn't super juicing?

It's not apples to apples but I think it sends a bigger message.

[urban latch]

Acs: 850 x 1.78 x 1.12 (dta)= 1.7m
Ouro: 1000 x 1.97 x 1.1 (dtooc) = 2.17m

[magic pilot]

There's a reason people use ouroboros on boss burns and not acs

[urban latch]

Forgot to put ouro to 60 chc

[flint wave]

it would be range if people thought about it

not this

[vestal ibex]

Range? What do you mean?

Aren't you right next to them in both cases?

[flint wave]

you don't need to be point-blank to get peak performance with ouro

[magic pilot]

Yea that makes it even better lol

[urban latch]

Dude, I'm literally assuming your hitting every single pellet and it's the difference in damage pgc give you

[flint wave]

It feels like everyone calculates things differently in this game because this is what I pulled

so idk who to trust

[vestal ibex]

OC booster huh?

[magic pilot]

Wtf is that🤣

[vestal ibex]

Dude this is YT bait.

[urban latch]

I literally showed you my math, vs a graph that shows nothing and is clearly wrong at a glance

[flint wave]

this math?

[urban latch]

☝️

[vestal ibex]

You have a comparison without OC booster? Or do you have some trick to having it all the time?

[flint wave]

ouro doesn't have 50% chc if acs still has 19.5%

I thought that was a mistake

it looks like one

[urban latch]

I was literally using the numbers you gave me....

And updated below

Gear even pointed out that you might be wrong and you insisted

[dreamy valve]

It’s good for group, use Scorpio or Ouro, and rock and roll for stacks, change one core to red

[flint wave]

this doesn't look like an update compared to the wall of text

even if you misinterpreted where the extra 9% chc came from ouro would be at 40% crit chance right?

where does the extra 10% come from

acs also not using crit chance mods?

[vestal ibex]

DTTOOC

[flint wave]

wrong one

10% extra CRIT CHANCE

if ouro has 50% while acs still has 19% that's assuming acs is not running crit weapon mods(the 5% ones) and no third attribute being crit chance

[vestal ibex]

Dude at this point I'm cetain there isn't any way for and RNR to beat an ouro in any damage metric with CHC factored in.

Even at a huge disadvantage.

[flint wave]

there's no disadvantage tho

Atleast I didn't make up one

Everything can be made in real game

just stick ouro and acs with chc third attribute in the same build and look at ur stats

[vestal ibex]

So your suggesting that graph is your proof right?

[magic pilot]

https://mxswat.github.io/mx-division-builds/#/IwWgTCDMKqAsA2EAGFbUfegXJC1VQIAOUTcrc3OcNIkYiC5y7OWGiMynl5bMAE5ahXmOYDhBGONkZswBFyigArOD45N27NvHYA7Lrkpje5EA

So like this?

[vestal ibex]

Aside of the OC booster lets just look at it for a second. The ACS and ouro follow the same starting line correct? But how? We know the ouro has higher burst by a lot. Explain that to me.

[flint wave]

I used a ceska piece that's how I ended up with the optimal 57.5

you used contractor

[vestal ibex]

What do you mean contractors?

[flint wave]

wrong reply

I was replying to this

[magic pilot]

So you want to compare ceska/coyotes with acs to ouro with contractors/coyotes?

[flint wave]

we definitely weren't using contractors in the math

[magic pilot]

https://mxswat.github.io/mx-division-builds/#/IwWgTCDMKhAsA2EAGFbUfegXJC1VYQAOUTcrc3OcNI4iCpy7YATlujMp+eWzAcCMXqKYChdMdIysEEUJFABWcHxzrN2TWOwB2bTJSGdyIA

[flint wave]

lol

[magic pilot]

Ouro
https://mxswat.github.io/mx-division-builds/#/IwWgTCDMKhAsA2EAGFbUfegXJC1VYQAOUTcrc3OcNI4iCpy7YATlujMp+eWzAcCMXqKYChdMdIwCA7JmDAk7FWzkw2xTR3F8Z2fUexzDMlGaMogA

[magic pilot]

?

[flint wave]

? Your the one that made the build

[magic pilot]

That not what it shows for me

Should be fixed now

[vestal ibex]

Max watch level lol

[flint wave]

yeah that's what it should show

you forgot take off striker chc attributes

[magic pilot]

Ouro is 9% over crit cap and I bet it still does more dps

[dreamy valve]

I use both weapons in a build

[vestal ibex]

Same....

One for stacking and one for damage.

[flint wave]

also same but only in incursion bosses

[vestal ibex]

Eh I'll use lefty in duo speeds and LFGs cause I want mah sledge. RNR for 4 man speeds tho.

[magic pilot]

Can we give the acs close range buff too

[vestal ibex]

At the end of the day I feel like another click bait youtube video has put out false info.

[urban latch]

Just curious, where did this come from?

[vestal ibex]

I have seen that format in a yt dude but I forget their name.

[flint wave]

fog of war :)

[magic pilot]

Oml

[urban latch]

Alrighty then lol

[dreamy valve]

I did manage to wipe out a rogue agent spawn with rock n roll though

[vestal ibex]

They still bugged? I know when leaving safe houses they spawn at normal even with recent patches to fix that.

That and the purple drops... bleh

[dreamy valve]

Last week yeah. But I caught them in a control point

All 5 were coming out of a spawn door and I camped them to death

[flint wave]

yeah definitely normal

[dreamy valve]

I only used acs cause I ran out of ammo for ouroboros during the previous fight

[magic pilot]

Not bugged anymore

[strong sphinx]

How is this build for DZ -- anything I should improve?

[magic pilot]

Looks fine if you like Elmo

Since your warch isn't maxed probably worth swapping gloves to ceska

Swap the vector for something else

Lefty would be good

[strong sphinx]

crit change is 54% on elmo and 58% on vector -- should still swap in ceska?

[urban latch]

Should do that regardless

[flint wave]

what do you swap is the real question

ceska adrenaline rush bag?

[magic pilot]

Gloves

[wise swallow]

Dont use a vector with killer

pretty much useless in the DZ

[magic pilot]

True

[strong sphinx]

which would be better, fast hands?

[wise swallow]

Optimist

[ancient dune]

I'm a little bit late to the party but for a stat estimate like this I'm seeing about equivalent DPS

DPS estimate

[wise swallow]

I personally wouldnt use an SMG and a AR together. youd be better off using 2 AR's but thats up to you

[strong sphinx]

wouldnt something like grupo glove be better if ceska will put me over 60% ?

[ancient dune]

strained averages to an equivalent of about 30% CHD across the AA-12 magazine

[magic pilot]

Ceska shouldn't

Change your gear mods

[wise swallow]

^

or have CHD on foxes and pic instead of CHC (if you have CHC)

[strong sphinx]

oh yes forgot i have chc mod on chest

ok thank u guys 🙏

[wise swallow]

also dont use cursader shields

use fire sticky and set a keybind for instant use

[magic pilot]

W piece?

[wise swallow]

unfortunately low rolls but

PS doesnt seem like an amazing brand but still worth keeping around

[flint wave]

literally change nothing

[magic pilot]

HF with grupo intimidate chest

Ouro

[ancient dune]

oops this was with bloody knuckles instead of coyote's though

[dreamy valve]

Keep

[magic pilot]

Def keeping

[gentle lichen]

Makes deathgrips even more irrelevant

[dreamy valve]

Palisade is one of those one piecer brands

[magic pilot]

2 pc in pvp

Dth works in pvp now tho too

[dreamy valve]

If it was skill health I would use it

For my decoy huh

[wise swallow]

health buff is even more reason to run AR instead of SMG

[magic pilot]

Ouro still op

[blissful sphinx]

so other than improving the rolls and getting new chestpiece is this a good build for group pve?

idk if i should get more armor

[hexed steppe]

Get a grupo obliterate chest.
Focus is a good talent but you need 8x scope to utilize

[blissful sphinx]

i just threw on a chest for the ss tbh i dont have the grup chest yet

going for it

wait a grupo or ceska?

[hexed steppe]

Normal setup is ceska chest/coyote mask.
You already have a ceska holster so grupo chest would be good

[blissful sphinx]

i could swap coyote and then striker holster?

[magic pilot]

Yes

[hexed steppe]

Yeah, but you'll want the ceska on the chest in that case

[blissful sphinx]

gotcha

with regards to armor you think im a bit too squishy or no

[hexed steppe]

Coyote isnt necessary tbf.
You'll just want to push close to 60%chc without it, 50%chc if you use coyote

[hexed steppe]

I'm not a great judge of that, I run all red dps setups. Striker you can get away with armor cores and still be strong. Itll be preference

[blissful sphinx]

if it were your build what'd you have coyote or no

[hexed steppe]

Yeah, I run coyote on mine

[lyric prism]

so Capacitor is not getting full DTA on rerolls?

[hexed steppe]

Ceska oblit chest as well

[blissful sphinx]

what holster

or do u run momento

[magic pilot]

Wdym

[hexed steppe]

Blame the new system. You have to have the rolls to optimize them max now, except you max at 6% in library iirc

[lyric prism]

OK so don't reroll yet.

[magic pilot]

I rerolled mine rip

[hexed steppe]

Wss a known issue feature

Was a stupid idea

[lyric prism]

yea so I'll wait. my Capacitor is at 12%.

[hexed steppe]

There are a few things this project that were stupid... at least gear lock didnt make it in. I'm not gonna bother rerolling anything for a while

[magic pilot]

I got reg, eb lady death scorpio and capacitor rerolled

[lyric prism]

check the DTA on 2nd attrib on Capacitor, probably at 6%. should be 12%.

[hexed steppe]

All chd mods/main rolls, max watch+ceska+elmo+ secondary chc rolls puts it at 52%chc

[magic pilot]

It wasn't maxed anyway

[gentle lichen]

Reroll till you get godrolled dta with dtoc

[hexed steppe]

Rerolls just seems risky atm. I took advantage to rank 25 a bunch of stuff. Found it funny that rank12 m700 variant is same base damage as rank 25 white death 😅

[blissful sphinx]

whats r ch dmg?

[hexed steppe]

Chd crit hit damage
Chc chance
I think it's in the 170ish chd range but would have to load up to know for sure

[flint wave]

name change from expertise to rank?

[blissful sphinx]

noice

guessing you'd wanna chd on attri tho?

[flint wave]

wrong gun to have chc

it should have damage to target out of cover

[hexed steppe]

Ig, just following your lead

[pastel pasture]

they should have a spot on what builds are good for legendary, too many youtube vods on herioc

[tulip charm]

I mean most common dps builds are good for leg

[granite girder]

opinion pls

[tulip charm]

Is that rigger?

[flint wave]

youtube builds have already covered the meta atleast 5 times over its all goofy fun builds now mostly(even if they try to advertise it as meta)

[granite girder]

yes

[tulip charm]

It aint it chief

Just use a normal skill build or try dps

[rich cosmos]

Hows the new behind you talent performing? Badly I assume?

[flint wave]

doesn't do anything on ars

or shotguns or smgs

[pastel pasture]

yea, it just feels locked into u must play these for leg. or else ur gonn ahve a bad time

[stark solstice]

How to see stats of your build now, which button in there, earlier I used the button which is used for tinkering now

[rich cosmos]

I mean it shouldn’t have ever been on them in the first place

[pastel pasture]

its a tab now on the menu

[flint wave]

that's why it isn't

[tulip charm]

I mean most builds are easy to flesh out nowadays. But if you're trying to mm leg just expect terrible builds to appear 9/10.

[flint wave]

legendary isn't called the hardest content for no reason

[tulip charm]

Also the first 3 leg are easy

[pastel pasture]

isnt only strikers the main for leg?

[tulip charm]

Nego and HE can work aswell

[flint wave]

strikers and head hunter fury are the popular ones

negotiators overrated imo unless soloing for speedrun.com times

[tulip charm]

wtf nego is goated

😠

[pastel pasture]

wat is HE?

[onyx sage]

nego good until it isn't, especially for the last 2 leg

[pastel pasture]

I thought Heartbreaker would be okay since u have armor, but i dont think it outputs alot of dmg needed for the sponges

[onyx sage]

it still outputs decently, but it might screw you over in some instances. also it stacks slower and decays faster than striker

[stark solstice]

Thank you, little difficult to see as I can't see my build and stats together

[pastel pasture]

HE is just High end right?

[onyx sage]

yeah HE is high end

[flint wave]

one of these days someone's gonna think HE = Heartbreaker

[pastel pasture]

:/ I did at first, thats why I built it… didnt really work out tho

[onyx sage]

HEartbreaker

[urban latch]

It got toned down to reasonable after the pts, but it's still one of the best talents on rifles, although depending on the situation it might be near useless to top tier.

[pastel pasture]

anyway to use marksmen rifles in high end without determined?

sr Leg. difficulty

[urban latch]

You just have to hit heads

[onyx sage]

yeah mmr builds are strong in leg

[pastel pasture]

the HH determined build?

[onyx sage]

HH yes, determined optional

[pastel pasture]

?? im interested

what would u use instead of Determined??

[onyx sage]

raucey's guide for sniper setups

[brittle vortex]

If decoys are good in legendary then mantis with Brutus might work

[onyx sage]

i mean optimist, ranger, preservation, and future perfect already exist before determined came

i personally ran optimist on white death and will continue using it on m700

[pastel pasture]

4 piece or 3 piece hotshot?

or it doesnt really matter?

[onyx sage]

4p hotshot should do top damage but its baseline damage without the 20% buff is lower than 3p builds, 3p builds are more flexible and not reliant on hotshot buffs

if you can maintain 4p buff then use 4p, and that's made easier with determined

[dreamy valve]

You need the right weapons for it, and setup

[pastel pasture]

doesnt optimist not really synergises with 4 piece hotshot?

since 4 piece reloads ur gun?

[onyx sage]

you still get the buff from first bullet, i haven't checked for m700 but with white death you should get optimist buff from first bullet

[vestal ibex]

One thing to note about HH snipers is it's all about breakpoints and they are very easy to hit in heroic and even legendary. Once you hit those requirements on damage you can go with QOL talents/attributes as it's probably one of the most customizable builds out there.

[pastel pasture]

you have the breakpoints as a picture or somthing?

[vestal ibex]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vQ-OZyQRHd6TskSbeE9tn2jMdn9eLIe9Fsm5CjD7A_EUwUKPdo_VO_ug7aOMdH3hhnw0pE8GGs_LnPl/pubhtml

[molten oar]

why can't i recalibrate my st elmo's?

[vestal ibex]

Can't recal exotics.

[molten oar]

ah gotcha

are all the attribute rolls set then?

i.e. is rate of fire the only attribute st elmos can roll with or no

[vestal ibex]

You can reconfigure them to have a random third attribute tho.

[hexed steppe]

Crafting > reconfigure

[molten oar]

gotcha

[hexed steppe]

Make sure inventory isnt full. Ppl been losing exo that way. New bug

[onyx sage]

@ancient dune also has a hh damage calculator that simulates your actual damage on npcs on various difficulties and group sizes

[pastel pasture]

where?

[flint wave]

where

[pastel pasture]

all these numbers are crazy

[onyx sage]

he has an updated sheet

[vestal ibex]

The link I sent is health for a basic enemy. Certain ones have less (shotgunners or rushers) and other enemies have more(LMG and medics). You can go into the shooting range and see what your first-second-max HH numbers are and see where you land against the content you are playing. Knowing who you can 1 shot is something you should know when sniping.

[flint wave]

where's the updated sheet

[onyx sage]

mine is an outdated version taken from his with less features

wait for him to wake up and reply lol

[flint wave]

😭

[vestal ibex]

Dude is a bro. I asked about second shot damage and he added it in.

[pastel pasture]

the only thing I cant 1shot is the named enemies i think

[onyx sage]

yeah we already know the calculations

i'm just out of town and lazy at the same time

for named enemies in heroic you can still one shot them most of the time, failing that you can use m870

[vestal ibex]

Nem, tac 50, m870.

[onyx sage]

tac 50 against named

[pastel pasture]

nem doesnt one shot?

[vestal ibex]

Eh I think it'll still do it, I forget the reduction.

[vestal ibex]

Nem will do 55+ mil at full HH.

[pastel pasture]

unless my dmg isnt quite there yet(everything isnt optimised just yet)

[vestal ibex]

Should still do around 48-53 on a poopy build too as long as you've got vigi and chainkiller.

Maybe you aren't full charging it?

[pastel pasture]

yea i forgot when i switch weapons the HH goes down some (when switching to nem)

[flint wave]

nemesis is tac50 but delayed

and free to use

[pastel pasture]

nem did 52mil at full HH

[vestal ibex]

Yeah and nem can be used to get stacks. Like if you full charge then swap to M700 or WD I think it puts you at full HH for them then.

[onyx sage]

yeah

nem is a popular 0-stacker

[pastel pasture]

yea i usually start with nem, kill a yellow and switch to my m700 carbon

and go from there

[vestal ibex]

Noice.

[pastel pasture]

taking determined off is gonna be okay for me, since Im mostly aiming at heads

[onyx sage]

pro tip: take off scope if you wanna shoot faster

[pastel pasture]

I also doing this on the no scope version

[onyx sage]

nice

[flint wave]

also take off scope if ur on console

[pastel pasture]

yea the aim assist is crazy

[flint wave]

[onyx sage]

we have crazy headhunters here now, finally

[rich cosmos]

Ngl Im loving the m16a2

Its fun

[vestal ibex]

Maybe try out the 100% stability version? If you have 3pc hots just roll weapon handling till stability becomes 100%.

[pastel pasture]

dude the m700carbon does crazy dmg now, I think it surpasses the white death

[onyx sage]

it does

[pastel pasture]

what rolls should I get on the nemeesis? and is the bug for deleting exotics gone?

[flint wave]

not dtoc

[onyx sage]

as a popular 0-stacker dttooc is usually best

[pastel pasture]

LMAO

[onyx sage]

but you can also use dta

[flint wave]

jk

[onyx sage]

on your main sniper like m700 you'd rather run dta

[flint wave]

reckoon wanted dth

[onyx sage]

yeah but like, you really suffer against armor

[pastel pasture]

yea I need to hit the armor peeps, sometimes it hits and they have 1 armor thing left

[onyx sage]

we'd need to see more simulations but then we need numbers for chunga and dog health

i think we got decent approximations for heroic but legendary is going to be hard

[pastel pasture]

dogs are the worst without determined

[flint wave]

atleast tidal basin doesn't require me to do 4 invaded missions anymore

[pastel pasture]

I might keep a pistol on me with Determined and switch to it

[onyx sage]

nah, not worth

you'd still try your best to hit leg

[flint wave]

determined doesn't even carry over on switch anyways or vise versa

[onyx sage]

yeah

[gentle lichen]

Reggie dtoc solos

[pastel pasture]

naw i meant switch to Pistol > proc Determined then ikill dogs

[onyx sage]

you might even do m870 on their legs

d50 won't do enough

[flint wave]

🗿

[pastel pasture]

Im trying here lol

[flint wave]

unreliable combo that's only good on heroic 2p

xd

[onyx sage]

just do m870 if you want to guarantee kill

[pastel pasture]

yea I want legy sniper stuff, without determined

[flint wave]

yeah just shoot thr leg of tbe dog

it should die

[gentle lichen]

You can clip through the dog's armor with m870

No need for leg shots if you don't have headhunter

[onyx sage]

you can yeah

OR if you have firewall, just use flamethrower

[flint wave]

🧠

[onyx sage]

become sparkle against their own kind

[pastel pasture]

honestly I dont even need the tac50?

[flint wave]

the things headshot builds got to do when they don't have headhunter...

[pastel pasture]

but its nice to have a backup

[onyx sage]

tac-50 is always nice if you use sharpshooter

[pastel pasture]

is behind you a good talent to have now?

[vestal ibex]

My sniper build runs DCH and a D50 with flatline and it's more of an oh shit people are on top of me which isn't common tbh. You've just gotta figure out how to get HH back and when to drop it.

[pastel pasture]

yee, I finally found out where the buff bar is in this game, so I keep track of stacks/buffs/etc now

[vestal ibex]

Also you know about the leg shot bino refered to earlier right?

[pastel pasture]

the wat?

[pastel pasture]

you think the new talent behind you might work? since it adds weapon dmg to you ?

[onyx sage]

it's a small amp that might not add that much. let me do some quick maths

[vestal ibex]

Dogs take direct health damage at 10% of what would be hit for and usually dropping full HH on their leg will kill them.

Also sniper and grenade dogs have spots you can do full direct health damage to.

[pastel pasture]

huh I didnt know that about dogs

i knew that some had a weakpoint(kinda) for temp disabling them