td2-build-advice

[tawdry flare]

diamondback

[bronze hound]

that doesnt remove the cap

whatever

[tawdry flare]

it does practically

[bronze hound]

no

[tawdry flare]

for 5s

[bronze hound]

my idea was a ceska vest named "Hot Topic" that has a 10% chc attribute

[tawdry flare]

when the talent is active every hit is a crit

[flint wave]

it makes it 100% chc for 5 sec

🧠

[tawdry flare]

maybe 12%

[bronze hound]

nah 10

[flint wave]

st elmos chest piece

[bronze hound]

meta but not op

[tawdry flare]

10 it is you are the dev

[bronze hound]

lol 10 is a good even number

[tawdry flare]

incoming named ceska chest with 20% base chc

tu whatever idc

[flint wave]

Finally something easy to farm

[bronze hound]

exactly

[tawdry flare]

dz exclusive

[bronze hound]

i would have said "perfectly obliterated" but that would be way too op

but a grupo chest with perfectly obliterated im down for

[livid salmon]

Then it would simply replace GlassCanon

for DPS

[bronze hound]

glass cannon is cringe anyways

[flint wave]

not if we make perfectly obliterated a backpack falent

[livid salmon]

Glass Canon can be used for Skill builds as well

[bronze hound]

i was thinking just increase its duration

[tawdry flare]

yup raise the stacks from 1% to 1.25

[livid salmon]

yeah actually

[bronze hound]

nah just raise from 5 to 10 seconds

[livid salmon]

dmg is good, duration not sufficient

[bronze hound]

raising damage too op

[tawdry flare]

i will take it but raise the cap to 30 than

[bronze hound]

no too op

[tawdry flare]

no?

[bronze hound]

no

[flint wave]

Literally trying to make a high end striker build

[hexed steppe]

Plans for perfect oblit already, iirc 5.11 brand backpack talent

[bronze hound]

what would it be called though 🤔

[bronze hound]

source?

[hexed steppe]

Me🤣

[tawdry flare]

Foxes Chest

[bronze hound]

my point exactly

[bronze hound]

Foxes satanic ritual xD

[tawdry flare]

ChampionFoxes

[bronze hound]

id love to end up in a quote for a gear piece

[flint wave]

actual hunter killer

[bronze hound]

thats like my lifelong dream

like ekim's long stick

oh i came up with a good name

[tawdry flare]

Ultra Pro Max Chest

[bronze hound]

its called "Spin Cycle"

nah my name is legit

you gotta think of names that theyd actually consider in the game

[tawdry flare]

maybee Destroyer

[flint wave]

That's what I was thinking lol

[tawdry flare]

goes with obliterate quite well

[flint wave]

A name that relates to obliterate talent

[livid salmon]

Obliterator

[tawdry flare]

no

redundant

[bronze hound]

jk that was kinda cringe lol

im never trying to come up with quotes again

[flint wave]

🚎

[tawdry flare]

🧠

[bronze hound]

i like the name "Bus Stop" for an exotic

[glossy scarab]

ShatterPlate for a named item. Cuz it shatters armor

[tawdry flare]

maybe full stop exo

[flint wave]

Contractors chest piece

[bronze hound]

how about this

erR0r: NaN

[flint wave]

🗿

[tawdry flare]

💀

[bronze hound]

(its just an exotic sawed off with a 10 round mag)

[flint wave]

Dread edict

[bronze hound]

(and a fucking scope)

[flint wave]

An 8x scope

[bronze hound]

no 3.4

[flint wave]

nah

[bronze hound]

we like to be funny but not trolls

[flint wave]

perfect focus synergy

[bronze hound]

its an exotic no perfect talents

nvm i misread

but i like your way of thinking

what talent would it use 🤔

[flint wave]

The rock and roll talent but to the extreme

because of the 10 bullets

[bronze hound]

im trying to think of something involving the fact its a shotgun

[tawdry flare]

perfect frenzy

[livid salmon]

Theo Parnell

[flint wave]

perfect close and personal

[bronze hound]

for an exotic not named

[livid salmon]

its already there right

[flint wave]

yes

[livid salmon]

Wolverine

[bronze hound]

now thats a good one

but what would it do

[flint wave]

dragovs promise

[bronze hound]

nah

[tawdry flare]

named honey badger

[livid salmon]

Parnell's Sight

[bronze hound]

dragov is the one who had the regulus

Conley's Expertise

[tawdry flare]

kajika

[bronze hound]

(since shes an engineer and all)

[flint wave]

Parnells sight belonging to a sawed off?

[livid salmon]

We talking about snipers, right?

[flint wave]

Yeah kajika is the one that owns the op af pisto

[bronze hound]

no a sawed off

a clip fed sawed off with an 8x

[livid salmon]

bruh

[tawdry flare]

15X

[bronze hound]

no clip fed

would be funny as hell lookin

[flint wave]

It should be a sawed off with alternate firing mode

[bronze hound]

no

[flint wave]

due to it having a scope

[bronze hound]

not another swapping shoulders shit

and bighorn is trash

[flint wave]

then make this not bighorn 2

[bronze hound]

you cant copy the talent though

[tawdry flare]

maybe firing both barrel at once

[bronze hound]

still copies ravenous

[flint wave]

scoping in fires the entire clip and reserves

[livid salmon]

Bruh Revenous talent makes it such a good weapon, but switching shoulders is shit, ruins everything

[bronze hound]

oh my fucking god

thats fucking horrible and i love it

[flint wave]

Each bullet loaded into the clip and reserves does 5% extra damage per bullet

[livid salmon]

A two/three barrel sniper

Like in Apex Legends

[bronze hound]

Cooldown: 15s```

nothing else

[tawdry flare]

no no no

[bronze hound]

well except a cooldown

[flint wave]

a cool down of 15 sec

[bronze hound]

i find that fair

[tawdry flare]

when scoped turns it into ar

[bronze hound]

thats just the opposite of a bighorn

[flint wave]

when scoped replace the best ar in your inventory with a back up boomstick

[tawdry flare]

also increases accuracy exponential with each missing shot

[livid salmon]

Shoot like a shotgun while aiming from shoulder
And it shoots from two barrels when ADS which becomes a sniper

[flint wave]

For the rest of your division playthroufh

[tawdry flare]

at 1 shot remaining gain 10000% accuracy

[bronze hound]

okay hold on

[flint wave]

it's a sawed off with 10 shots until you scope in and it fires the entire mag
good exotic

[tawdry flare]

fires 2 bullet at one time on double press

[livid salmon]

Why not a new specialization

[bronze hound]

When aiming down sights, accuracy increased by 400% and stability by 200%, but damage decreased by -40%

[flint wave]

lol

[tawdry flare]

dmg loss is too much

[flint wave]

but all pellets will hit with that kind of accuracy

[bronze hound]

the damage number will be ridiculously high

[flint wave]

we need some optimal range mods on this sawed off

[livid salmon]

thats what makes it an exotic

[tawdry flare]

than add optimal range too lik 200% or so

[flint wave]

kid named regulus and st elmos

[bronze hound]

a mod

Kajika's Promise: +500% optimal range

[flint wave]

Now kajika has two side arms this unfair

[tawdry flare]

keeners lie : DMG decrease by 40%

[bronze hound]

no

+40% weapon damage mod to compensate for the loss when ADS

[tawdry flare]

saying guns mod as a part of mods

[tawdry flare]

keeners lie still

[bronze hound]

sure

weird ass gun lmfao

[patent fossil]

Sounds like it's basically turned into a rifle at that point, which is bighorn all over again

[flint wave]

You don't say?

[bronze hound]

no because it has an 8x

[flint wave]

bigger scope = better optimal range

wait the scope needs a attachment name too

[bronze hound]

Parnell's something

silence?

[flint wave]

Parnells view

[livid salmon]

Parnells skill is hologram right

[flint wave]

(5% critical hit damage) 💀

[livid salmon]

something fake

Should be named Parnell's (fake)

[bronze hound]

Parnell's Disguise

THERE WE GO THATS A GOOD ONE

[flint wave]

when scoped in enemies can't see you

[livid salmon]

lol

[bronze hound]

busted as hell in pvp

[tawdry flare]

Parnell's illusion better

[bronze hound]

true

[flint wave]

when scoped in enemies become 90% less accurate/always in a cover to cover move

[glossy scarab]

Parnell's spectre

[bronze hound]

wait no

[flint wave]

when scoped in you are in cover to cover mode

[bronze hound]

the magazine mod is just

Keener's bullshit: +400% magazine size

[flint wave]

Lmfao

[bronze hound]

oh yeah lets replace the talent with "while aiming" to "while in cover"

[flint wave]

ok it's gonna get the Acosta go bag treatment
2 talents

[bronze hound]

eagle bearer also has two

[livid salmon]

After killing an enemy with a marksman rifle from cover, while doing cover to cover agent leaves a hologram at the previous cover
Some cooldown shit

[flint wave]

would need 500% to reach 10 shots

[bronze hound]

no because +100% is +2 shots

so +400% is +8 shots

2 round mag by default

[flint wave]

nvm missed the +

[flint wave]

sounds like mantis 2.0

[blissful rampart]

ppft here is the only exo i need

“Outcast Devotion”
Exotic chest full red crit
Increase sprint speed by 25% while using pistol
Rolling into and enemy causes a massive explosion dealing 69 damage and instantly killing the agent and all enemies in the blast radius.

[bronze hound]

Why does it deal 69 damage and insta kill at the same time

[livid salmon]

after every successfull kill reviver hive CD refreshes

[flint wave]

reviver mine

[bronze hound]

I still like the idea of a "keeners bullshit" mod that just does stupid shit for no reason

[livid salmon]

true

[bronze hound]

I would love a clip fed sawed off

[blissful rampart]

because 69 giggity 😛

[bronze hound]

Sigh

[flint wave]

best exotic fr

[blissful rampart]

also i wouldnt mind a buff to bullet king tbh, like "after every 2 kills, increase ROF by 15% stacking, for 5s, getting a kill refreshes duration" to really give the feel of endless bullet hell "D

[bronze hound]

"You want me to stick a mag on what now?"

-Vivian Conley

[flint wave]

and a scope

[bronze hound]

The scope was just dlc

@blissful rampart

[tawdry flare]

nice

[tawdry flare]

where is the 15X scope

[bronze hound]

Lmao

I love that

[tawdry flare]

@onyx sage finally

[onyx sage]

lol

[tawdry flare]

@bronze hound

[flint wave]

late reply

[jovial delta]

is there a repository of builds/guides somewhere?

[slate wedge]

rolling into aggro

[wicked onyx]

Does Golden Bullet activate in Legendary Strongholds?

[patent fossil]

yes

[copper halo]

What’s the best setup for a tank ?

To be a tank*

Anyone got a recommendation for a YouTube video or pictures?

[magic pilot]

Tanks don't work well in 99% of content

[plain girder]

For what purpose? PVE?/PVP?

[keen spire]

Not what they asked

[keen spire]

Check IamFox on YouTube or pinned spreadsheet

[magic pilot]

He hasn't made a build in 2 years

[hazy valve]

Yeah Cham, they ask for a tank build >:( lmao

[keen spire]

His channel is still linked on the pinned spreadsheet.

[hexed steppe]

tbh, the type of setup that stays in the stash.
for solo tank is probably fine, slow to clear, but fine, and theres probably one in the pinned sheet. in a group the aggro mechanics dont really work and you just end up as a heavy carry that does no damage. other types of support roles are much more effective if in a group. healers , crowd control both good. you can also use something like hunters fury where you get a lot of armor on kill while also dealing great damage, and disorienting anything around what you kill. paired with memento and there is regen and bonus armor as well

[hazy valve]

Love how tanks are so insignificant that people rather tell u to not waste ur time eith it than an actual build 😂

[round zinc]

Here’s an actually useful tank build:
Tier 6 decoy with artificer hive

[hexed steppe]

its already been suggested to check the pinned sheet 🤦‍♂️

[vestal ibex]

Well come to a build advice channel and you see the best advice about "tanks" being given is a win.

[hazy valve]

Your a win

[vestal ibex]

Thank you bb.

[magic pilot]

Full tank

[autumn moon]

We need him back!!!

[tight robin]

So I should have no problem soloing Heroic Invaded GW Hotel with this loadout, right? It's just my lack of player skill that's getting me killed at the second boss?
(That's got Technician laser pointer on both weapons, and 50-60% CHC, 110-120 Cdmg.)

[tawdry flare]

remember to change some rolls to chd

you have some rainbow ones

[tight robin]

Oh, duh, thanks. How I forgot to recalibrate that mask I'll never know.

The body armour had a terrible core roll, so I just brought the armour up to full, but that doesn't seem to be helping much, so I'll recal that to weapon damage. I forgot to recal the pack to Cdmg too.
But that adds 8% to my Wdmg, and takes me to about 140% Cdmg, which isn't a huge huge difference. There's nothing terribly wrong with this build, right? A useless talent on the pack (because I need to finish grinding Proficiency on that item so I can get rid of it), but that should fairly easily be made up for by the double amp damage from Perfect Spotter and Perfect Flatline (20% amp each). So it's not like it's putting out hugely less damage than a meta build, right?

[glad heart]

No one pays any attention to me because I don't run coyote's mask and contractor's gloves on my dps build, but you are not doing enough damage with that build to run a heroic invaded anything and not get killed. Rerolling is not going to help much either. That's just me, and remember just like everyone else, you can ignore me if you want .\

[tight robin]

Lol. I understand that all comments come with a bunch of personal background and opinions. If you feel that you could run this build and do Heroic Invaded anything, then that sounds like it confirms my theory that it's a player skill problem. (Sigh.)

So maybe I need to go back to using a drone to attract aggro.

[glad heart]

I edited my post, haha. was supposed to say NOT able to run heroic anything with that....

I have combined shd level of 4700, and I would not attempt to run heroic with that type of build.

I would suggest you keep the knees and mask, put together 3 piece providence with chc and chd, and a fenris piece, and use an M4 or famas, then see how you do

[tight robin]

Oh, so it is the build, you think? But how does this do significantly less damage than the best High Grade build?
205% weapon damage * 0.5*140% crit * 106% armour (Contractor's gloves) * 108% DTOC * 20% Spotter * 20% Flatline seems pretty high to me.

[tight robin]

Anything there without a Profiency shield is non-negotiable. (I will simply not solo Heroic if that's what it takes to keep those pieces until I get them Proficient.)

[glad heart]

I am not into the math (another reason I get ignored) I go by TTK (time to kill) and positioning so they can't get behind me and make it hard to flank me. I do not run a shield either

I solo heroic with the following: Providence mask, chest (perfect vigilance) and gloves. Fox's knees, Grupo holster, Fenris chest (Unbreakable.) 60% Crit chance, 202.5% crit damage. No shield

[tight robin]

Ugh. I just died on a Challenging 5-directive CP on a backup call. I surely must be playing this thing wrong somehow.

[flint wave]

2 bugged directives is gonna end badly

[glad heart]

Not enough poop my friend. But don't get too discouraged, I go down on hard more than I would care to admit, but then I can turn around and melt a heroic mission

[glad heart]

Roger that

[tight robin]

Hm. So leaving off the Fox's and Contractor's; and assuming you're also all red, your AR is doing 2.15 + 1.21 avg crit = 3.36. My 2.05 + .7 = 2.75, so 2.75 * 1.2 * 1.2 = 3.96 is putting out more damage than you are, if I've done those calculations correctly.

[glad heart]

I do run fox's knees... your guess is as good as mine on the math. and my average crit (watching the numbers) is 484K

Crit varies from 300k - 700k

AFK for a few

[tight robin]

My crit in the firing range is 380-560. (That's on an unpulsed enemy, of course, so multiply by 1.44 in the real world.) Why on earth is it varying?

[glossy scarab]

the number changes when you go from shooting armor to shooting health

[glad heart]

you in game? and the range leaves a bit to be desired

It varies because the actual hit and damage is rng

[tight robin]

Ah, right. I forgot the AR is giving me health damage. that explains the 550k to 600k for that, but not the 350k crits I'm sometimes getting.

[glad heart]

I get those low crits as well

[glossy scarab]

weird

they should mostly be in the high end of ur spectrum

[glad heart]

most often in the 400 - 500k range for me

[glossy scarab]

when i test a build once im all stacked up or ready to go, the same crit number comes up tons of times

at max damage for that build

[tight robin]

And what's up with this symbol appearing, indicating about a ten second cooldown? Oh, wait, wow, I finally figured out how Clutch works.

[glossy scarab]

oh yeah clutch can be pretty good

but it does strip you of a damage talent

[glad heart]

Yes it does

Vigilance

[tight robin]

Right, my build doesn't have anything that would change CHD over time or number of hits, as far as I can tell, so it shouldn't be changing. Unless pulse is suddenly working in the range.

I didn't realise that the good part of Cluch repair comes from making crit hits immediately after a kill.

[glossy scarab]

are you firing a gun with flatline on it

[glad heart]

I can come in game, and put my money where my mouth is so to speak, and run a bit with you

[tight robin]

Yes, I have Perfect Spotter and Perfect Flatline, and the Tech. laser pointer.

[glossy scarab]

oh ok and the laser is always on for the most part

sometimes they dont get pulsed and your fire is weak

[tight robin]

Right. But back in the day, laser pointer did not pulse range targets. I can definitely see it pulsing real world targets, though.

[glossy scarab]

yeah you can get em pretty far tho

but not with kingbreakers handling, forget that

[round zinc]

I think Clutch should just straight up give you a full 100% heal on kill over time instead of scaling with your red core and not doing anything at 0 red

Maybe a minimum of like 10% because after all it does strip you of a damage talent slot or exotic

[tight robin]

Ok, so it is this build just not putting out the damage, despite my calculations. I'm about 50% down in the range, as expected without pulse, but in a Heroic GWH with both of us playiing pretty similarly @glad heart came out with 50% more damage than I did at the end.
Ah well. At least the build is suitable for being carried without being too embarassed. :-) I run my open world on Challenging 3-dir anyway, so it will be fine for most of my solo grinding.

[tawdry flare]

honestly you are wasting zero f a fenris pcs would give more

cause you are not using shotgun

[tight robin]

Errr...I don't have Zero F in there. I've got Perfect Spotter.

The only things that are replacable are Grupo mask, Contractor's gloves, and Fox's Prayer kneepads. All of those seem to be good contributions to the build, though.

[tawdry flare]

the kneepads are zero f and you are not using a shotgun

[tight robin]

Zero F is a pack, not kneepad.
Ah, wait, you're talking about the holster! Yeah, that's Ammo Dump, and that's being ground for Proficiency.

[tawdry flare]

ahh yeah my bad forgot about it is a holster okay

you can use a shotgun than take advantage of bonus or you can use zero f

also i meant to say badger tuff but kept saying zero f

[tight robin]

Ya, I guess I will have to try a new, proper Spotter build once I've ground this stuff out. Flatline didn't exist when I was last doing Spotter builds.

The bonus is pretty minimal; it takes me from 215% Wdmg with any other weapon to 225% Wdmg with a shotgun. That's only a 4.6% increase, and the loss of Perfect Flatline (20% amp instead of 15%) will more that eat that up.

[tawdry flare]

i think you are calculating a bit wrong cause we don't get 200+ wd bonuses

it is usually around 100% with 6 red and watch

[tight robin]

No, it's 225% weapon damage after buffs, where 100% is with no red cores.

[glad heart]

My AWD is 111% IIRC

[tawdry flare]

100% is base and than the other is multiplied so it can't be additive

[tight robin]

100% + 7 * 15% + 10% = 225%. Red cores are all added together to give your total weapon damage, that's then multiplied by crit etc., right?

[tawdry flare]

why 7 we have 6 red cores

[tight robin]

One on your weapon as well.

[tawdry flare]

that is yes additive to swd but is weapon specific

also 225% of what

[glad heart]

I cannot help with the math, the math is a mystery to me, even though I have an engineering degree haha

[tight robin]

225% of the amount if you had no red cores and 0% core attribute on the weapon (and no weapon-specific Wdmg from a brand).

[tawdry flare]

if you are doing % it is based of something you are not giving it the base value to calculate % from

[tight robin]

An engineer with no math is a bit worrisome. :-) What flavour of engineering?

[tawdry flare]

i can say 100% but 100% of what

[tight robin]

Oh, that 100% is the base damage the weapon does. The damage shown in the spreadsheet.

[glossy scarab]

whos handing out engineering degree? lemme get one

[tawdry flare]

yup but wd is multiplicative not additive to base weapon dmg

[glad heart]

Mechanical, Ocean (submersibles) good at math, just the math here doesn't make sense to me, not really studied it

[tawdry flare]

so it should be base dmg * awd

[glad heart]

I am 70 years old an retired, so no worries about engineering crap that is already broken

[tight robin]

Well, sure. You add together all the % buffs, add 1 (100%) to it, and that's the multiplier.

[tawdry flare]

but it will be interpreted as 200% of base dmg

[tight robin]

Mechanical! You should be good here; mechanical engineers build weapons, right? Just like civil engineers build targets.

[tawdry flare]

which is 3X but actually it is 2X

[hexed steppe]

i would ditch ammodump and devils due once theyre proficient, move ceska to holster and add memento for survivability. im asuming youre leveling named holster/bag

[glad heart]

Yeah true, it is the additive this multiplicative that, add this together then multiply by that... naw would rather just shoot

[tight robin]

Yup. Anything without a Proficiency shield there is being leveled and is going away (except maybe not the Perfect Spotter chest piece) once done. I'm just running out of crap to level!

[tawdry flare]

there are many pcs for which the only way is donation

[hexed steppe]

what skills, i used to love spotter since its a safe buff for weapon and skills👍

forget that question 🤣 just realized i needed to scroll a bit more to see the bottom of SS

[onyx sage]

just curious, how are you multiplying crit with your weapon damage here? i just want to see if you did it correctly

[glad heart]

leveling for proficiency is a good thing to do, but not at the expense of running an underpowered build. Better to just not be in such a hurry, and level by donating everything you get unless a useful god rolled piece, like the god rolled elmo I got

[onyx sage]

saying it's 215% awd is still correct as long as you know 100% is included by default at base tbh, but saying it's 115% awd is also correct, just depends on how you are defining the awd multiplier, so it's just semantics

[tawdry flare]

but it is open to interpretation 215% of what is the main point

[onyx sage]

i could say awd multiplier = 1 + awd and so saying awd = 115% would be correct. most important thing is everyone understands you

i wouldn't be pedantic over this

[tawdry flare]

for some dumb reason i am

but anyway i got the point

[tight robin]

I do average crit. So, 50% CHC on 140% Cdmg is .5 * 140% = 70%, that then multiplies modified weapon damage (the 215% from all the red cores) to get 365%. Or does it add to get 285%? I have suddenly gone blank on that!

[onyx sage]

you would get the crit multiplier first (or crit + headshot multiplier, if you factor in headshot also) as 1 + chc x chd, so your CM = 1 + 0.5 x 1.4 = 1.7, and then this multiplies with your awd and other multipliers. so it is 2.15 x 1.7 = 3.655 yes. just clarifying for myself since it wasn't clear what your chc and chd was before

also, you might be interested in the headhunter formula, it is a whole can of worms to unpack

[tight robin]

Right. I now see part of the issue; the most recent equation I saw was this one, and it seems to treat red cores as just part of weapon damage.

    = base damage
    * (1 + WD + weapon type damage \
         + sum of ("weapon damage" talents * talent uptime))
    * (1 + CHC * CHD + HsD * headshot chance)
    * (1 + DtA * %Armor + DtH * (1 - %Armor))
    * (1 + OoCD * %OutOfCover)
    * (1 + sum of ("total weapon damage" talents * talent uptime))
    * (1 + "amplify" talent1 * uptime)
    * (1 + "amplify" talent2 * uptime)
    * (1 + "amplify" talent3 * uptime)

[onyx sage]

yes, red cores are counted as "WD" in that formula

a good magic number to remember for AWD is 2.3, if you have 6 maxed out red cores, 3 points into your preferred weapon's bonus in specialization, and maxed out watch

[tight robin]

Oh, wait, ok, it makes sense now. "Weapon damage" is the multiplier to base; WD = 115% gives 215% damage.

[onyx sage]

a lot of calculations for full red builds assume 2.3 for awd

[tight robin]

Oh, I always leave out spec and watch, too, duh. Though it's kind of automatic for everything so usually safe to leave out of comparisons between two builds.

[tawdry flare]

that what i meant to say needs the base so it is very weird for me to see 200%

cause it would mean 3X usually

or is it just me being dumb

[onyx sage]

it's just something you get used to tbh. like if you see 100-140 you know it's without base

200-240 you know it's with base

[tight robin]

Yeah, when analysing builds I find it easiest to work from (base * Wdmg) because that's usually a fixed figure, and I'm looking at changing crit, headshot, other multipliers, etc.

[onyx sage]

in some of the best builds, even awd changes a lot actually, so it merits still the same attention as the other multipliers

[tight robin]

It depends on whether you say "X does 200% of the damage that Y does" or "X does 200% more damage than Y does."

[tight robin]

"awd"?

[tawdry flare]

all weapons dmg (red cores)

[onyx sage]

all weapon damage, the multiplier that we've been discussing

it's a colloquial name

used as is because it's a sum of all "weapon damage" bonuses

therefore, all weapon damage

[tight robin]

Oh, ok. I just call that "weapon damage," like in the game. Oh, wait, I see; you're using "all" as a modifier word, not part of the name of the thing.

[onyx sage]

yeah

some builds like headhunter builds favor awd a lot more than usual

[tawdry flare]

cause it applies to all weapons spec weapons like tac 50 minigun etc but swd is weapon only

[tawdry flare]

yeah

[onyx sage]

crit is almost irrelevant to headhunter

[tight robin]

But yeah, even though it does change even in my builds, it's generally one of a few fixed figures for the purposes of my calculations (90%, 105%, 115%, etc.) so rather than writing it out separately as "100% * (1 + 90%)" I just write it out as "190%" as a shortcut. The calculation is done, it just isn't shown.

[tawdry flare]

someone running coyote long buff can be good sometimes

[onyx sage]

yeah which i get. i just want to pique your interest

[tight robin]

Oh, I see the issue you're concerned about now. Yeah, I tend not to worry about the 15% that shouldn't be there when calculating for a spec weapon or whatever; I don't use spec weapons much anyway, and the overall comparsion between two builds is still close enough even if you were comparing spec weapon damage.

[tawdry flare]

i also don't use spec weapon except for tac50 or crossbow

[tawdry flare]

the 2nd room Manning national is crazy with regulus shoot the guys and the dog just throw grenade with 200% accuracy

[tight robin]

Actually, the one that really actually sorta works is the grenade launcher, IMHO. The rest are just too slow to be worth switching to, when you count the costs of switching to them. TAC-50 maybe, but the rest, nah. Except when I need to proc bleed, in which case the crossbow is useful.

[tawdry flare]

tac50 with tip used to be meta but next update it will go away

[onyx sage]

tac-50 and crossbow find a lot of use in legendary and raids

[tight robin]

Oh, wait, the flamethrower works, too. Again, for proc, but also just to flame up a tight gang of enemies coming out of a spawn point. But I may be overestimating how helpful it really is, because it's so much fun.

[onyx sage]

they are the top 2 by far

[tight robin]

I'm surprised crossbow is used in those. How does it help?

[onyx sage]

and yeah, i should also disclaim that a lot of advice we try to give here will scale all the way up to legendary, raids, etc. hard content

[tawdry flare]

in dh blows razerback armour below

[onyx sage]

crossbow will insta break armor plates from dogs, chungas, etc. any weakpoint you shoot at, it does immensely more damage than bullet damage

[tight robin]

Oh, really! Ok, I need to try that.

[tawdry flare]

tac 50 will make you kill an legendary vetran without hh stacks

even on 4 player scaling with tots

it hits for like 13-14 mil iirc

or you are running a sniper build

or a full red build

also tac 50 can peirce through targets in speedun used to kill 3 dogs with one shot

just line em up

[hoary atlas]

@tawdry flare what actually is Hazard Protection

And Skill Haste

[tawdry flare]

hazard protection or hazpro is basically the % immunity to all status effects in the game for example 10% hazpro will reduce the duration of all status by 10% status includes: poison,fire,bleed,burn,confuse,ensnare,blind each status have different cap for example att 88% hazpro you are completely resistant to shock you cannot be shocked

[tawdry flare]

reduce skill cooldown at 100% haste is reduced by half for 200% it is 1/3

[tight robin]

Not 1/3? 200% faster is three times faster.

[tawdry flare]

wait a min let me think i forgot

it is in power of 2

200% will be like 1/4

it's an exponential

not linear

or i may be forgetting things

it's been a while need to check notes

[tight robin]

That doesn't make a lot of sense to call it "200%", then, and doesn't work like the other % modifiers in the game.

[tawdry flare]

ok the formula is

base cooldown* 100/(100+skill haste)

so it is 1/3 you are correct

it is all about formula

you missed it you are wrong my bad

[tawdry flare]

talking about using wrong formula wrong formula wrong result

[hoary atlas]

Is that works for Gadget like Scanner and Ect ?

[tawdry flare]

every skill some skill like shock trap start cooldown as soon as they are deployed while something like decoy start cooldown after they have been destroyed or their duration is over

[hoary atlas]

Ah alright thanks

I gonna check Spreadsheet later to made a Skill Haste build for capacitor

[lunar spindle]

does ongoing directive or future initiative provide more damage buff to teammates?

[tawdry flare]

yup ongoing directives give 20% amp to whole team it is a separate buff all together while fi with chest gives 25% total weapon dmg and skill dmg basically a vigilance buff at full armour for weapons and the skill DMG buff is same as what hardwired with the chest provides

[stuck gull]

the latter at max armour iirc

[drowsy island]

what has better dps, killer or close and personal?

[patent elm]

fi is more amp and has more utiltiy due to the heals but with od you do more dmg yourself (even comparing to red fi)

[hexed steppe]

both are on kill talents. killer on paper is more damage but also needs to kill with a crit to proc, so its a chance of a chance to proc. close and personal you have to be very close. what weapon and build?

generally strained, fast hands, or if running a lot of armor optimist are the goto dps talents. flatline is a strong option if already running tech class and the weapon has a long underbarrel for the tech laser.

[drowsy island]

run and gun smg, can’t run flatline since the laser pointer can’t be put on

[hexed steppe]

ok yeah, strained or fasthands then.

if set on the original 2 talents c&p will be more reliable
👍

[tight robin]

Weirdly, Optimist doesn't seem to be working as well for me now as I would expect, though I used it a lot a couple of years back.
Strained is nice because it works very well with rifles. Though Cold Relations (Perfect strained, 8 stacks instead of 5 on a 53 round mag) showed a surprising amount of DPS in the firing range even though there's hardly anything left in the mag by the time it gets the 8th stack proc'd.

[serene sage]

where is the best place to farm the perfectly unbreakable gear ?

[wicked relic]

I would recommend Countdown for that. Set the loot to Badger Tuff and run with some friends doing the same. The hunters at the end might drop it then.

[serene sage]

awesome thank u bro

so if i dont have friends and go solo would summit work ?

with the loot set to badger tuff also

[wicked relic]

Might take a bit longer but you can try. You can run Countdown with the difficulty "challenging" and matchmake for a group.

[hexed steppe]

From what I understand optimist is better when you have mostly armor cores since it gives weapon damage

[tight robin]

Ugh, not Optimist; that was a brain fart. It's Spotter (along with Flatline) that's not working as well as I'd hopped.

[tight robin]

It's the Badger named chest piece. Buy named item caches with your stars at the Season Vendor, as well as going places where targeted loot is chest or Badger, as mentioned above.

[hexed steppe]

It would be better to just farm cd, target badger. There is a high drop rate of named items 👍

[serene sage]

okay ill do that instead then

[wicked onyx]

Accidentally dismantled a groll ACS with Pummel 😭😭

I needed that. I have Pummel still but I just wanted an ACS to throw Pummel on

[glossy scarab]

damn pummel is pretty much the best talent overall for that shotgun since you get free ammo

[bronze hound]

And damage

Also it's an acs so like

[glossy scarab]

that too

ideally you'll find another one where you can change the talent

[bronze hound]

I'd say ACS irrelevant outside lefty and RnR

[glossy scarab]

yeah thats a fair assessment

[bronze hound]

Lol

[hazy steeple]

base ACS is just as good, especially since it allows you to put an actual damage talent on it.
If you're going for a flatline build especially.

it's a powerhouse on a HB setup.

[glossy scarab]

i just like pummel bc the gun eats thru your limited shotgun shell supply

[hazy steeple]

Oh sure you need ammo fairly constantly, but it's more of a burst damage thing than sustained, with the ammo counter being as bare as it is.

[bronze hound]

Base ACS just kinda sucks for damage

Talent or not it's an acs

[glossy scarab]

it kills pretty damn quick for me

[hazy steeple]

Yeah it kills super quickly, even on Countdown where all the enemies have iron for skin.

[bronze hound]

Only with buffs

[hazy steeple]

I'm trying to think of guns in div2 that kill quickly without any buffs at all being active, and there's something of a deficit.

[vestal ibex]

New player>acs fine
Player who has everything as a choice>use a better named version.

[bronze hound]

yeah its absolutely awful

[glossy scarab]

named isnt always better. but if you like sledgehammer or you'd rather have 10 extra shells than a damage talent then yea named is better

[wicked onyx]

Oh yeah I do have a question

Talents like pummel only apply to the weapon it’s slotted on or does it increase damage by 40% from all sources?

[glossy scarab]

pretty sure just that weapon

[bronze hound]

its weapon damage

[wicked onyx]

Damn, I was hoping it could increase damage from all sources

[glossy scarab]

opportunistic for that

[bronze hound]

3 consecutive kills refills the magazine and grants +40% weapon damage for 10s.

[hazy steeple]

I hate doing it like that.

[vestal ibex]

In sync for skills.

[wicked onyx]

Whoops looks like I missed the last part

[bronze hound]

it cant be from all sources because you need to have the wepaon equipped

[hazy steeple]

This is so much cleaner

[bronze hound]

big brick block

if you type one word big brick block = bad

[vestal ibex]

thicc blook

[bronze hound]

the

[bronze hound]

my point exactly

[flint wave]

???

[bronze hound]

doesnt do that on pc

[flint wave]

spot the difference

[hazy steeple]

Is that a mobile thing? I use the pc app.

[flint wave]

I'm stuck in the past 👴

[vestal ibex]

Lots of things don't show on mobile tho.

[hazy steeple]

˙noʎ ɹoɟ ʇɔuᴉʇsᴉp ǝɹoɯ s,ʇᴉ ɟᴉ sᴉɥʇ ǝʞᴉl ʇᴉ op uɐɔ I

[wicked onyx]

I gotta grind for another ACS and a better Grupo and ceska chest piece

[bronze hound]

a lefty would be easier to obtain

tbh lol

[hazy steeple]

Run like 3 Countdown's and you'll probably have 8.

[wicked onyx]

I already have a lefty

[bronze hound]

then why do you wanna grind for a new acs

[vestal ibex]

See! we gud

[wicked onyx]

I have 2 lefties

[bronze hound]

why do you want a new acs then

[hazy steeple]

Not a good dancer, I take it?

[wicked onyx]

Not a good one lmao

[bronze hound]

doesnt matter if its a lefty, not like youre using it as a primary

acs is only good endgame to proc sledgehammer or charge striker

[wicked onyx]

My logic is, ACS has talent versatility. I gotta learn grenades and that’s just a skill issue for me lmao

[wicked onyx]

Gotchaaa. So lefty is better than ACS?

[bronze hound]

an acs does less damage than counterpart weapons so no point in using it

[wicked onyx]

I see I see!

[bronze hound]

the only benefit is its a mag dump, which is used to charge striker

[vestal ibex]

I think it's nice to run tdi custom and sledge on strikers and run a scorp in place of lefty.

[hazy steeple]

If you need to build up stacks, ACS is best for it. Base or rnr, either one works.

[bronze hound]

i run lefty and sledge kard xD

[hazy steeple]

Scorpio is terrible for building stacks though.

[bronze hound]

RnR would be a better fit now that i think about it xD

[wicked onyx]

I finally got Obliterate

RnR??

[hazy steeple]

It's a named ACS, has a bigger mag but lower overall damage due to the lost Talent.
either it or the base ACS are fine to use.

[vestal ibex]

I'm not concerned with building stacks faster. I don't think it's an issue as I only use strikers in lego.

Rather have scorp if my CC lets things run thru.

[wicked onyx]

This build is pretty good so far! I’m finally able to do a lot of endgame content and actually hold my own

Once I slap Obliterate it become even better!!

[bronze hound]

i should swap to rnr when i get home lol

[wicked onyx]

I wish I had a rnr

[vestal ibex]

It's honestly not that great. Just use pummel and you wont need to reload.

[livid horizon]

Rock n roll is nice for stack building (strikers) and it's damage is great up close. Fast hands is also nice, as well as flatline (heartbreaker)

[wicked onyx]

Noted!

[vestal ibex]

I could only see RNR being good if you are shooting super far away or if you are wearing strikers chest.

[wicked onyx]

I’ve been leveling all day yesterday. Jumped from level 230 to 252 with Golden Bullet and stuff

[vestal ibex]

I just feel if you are shooting from super far away missing tons of shots just use your AR at that point.

[wicked onyx]

That is why I carry Elmos

[thin patrol]

And Backup boomstick gives free ammo all the time.

[glossy scarab]

i keep forgettinng about that one

[wicked onyx]

Now I gotta optimize my gear 😭

[bronze hound]

why does backup boomstick give free ammo

[vestal ibex]

Doesn't it pull from pistol ammo?

[bronze hound]

it doesnt "give free ammo" it just has unlimited ammo

[glossy scarab]

reload is not skipped unfortunately

[vestal ibex]

Pistol ammo has a quantity it's just infinite

[tight robin]

How much damage is in an ACS mag, compared to a KSG mag?

[vestal ibex]

I guess it should be called side arm ammo tho.

[vestal ibex]

That's in the spreadsheet yo

[tight robin]

Oh, duh, yeah; thanks.

[bronze hound]

20 vs 12

ksg isnt clip fed though

[tight robin]

KSG 7 mil, ACS 3.4 mil. Obvious which one is going to work better with Pummel.

[bronze hound]

m870 > both of those

[tight robin]

Doesn't matter with Pummel, does it?

[vestal ibex]

ehhhh TTK is improtant too

[bronze hound]

^

[vestal ibex]

300 vs 70 RPM

[bronze hound]

lol

[tight robin]

Howso? M870 is also only around 3.4 mil in the mag.

[bronze hound]

source?

[onyx sage]

highest base damage

[hazy steeple]

3.38mil, if no reds for the acs.
7.1 for the ksg.
but yeah, firerate and fast reloads.

[tight robin]

The spreadsheet.

[bronze hound]

hold on

[onyx sage]

which matters the most for Headhunter hehe

[bronze hound]

yeah the ksg has higher but takes longer to fire

[vestal ibex]

Mag damage isn't the full story tho.

[bronze hound]

you cant fire as many shots consecutively

[tight robin]

So what is the story then, for Pummel?

[bronze hound]

bullet king has 37 mil per mag it must be the best here

[bronze hound]

burst damage

[tight robin]

Or worst, in the case of using Pummel, because it doesn't have the talent. :-P

[bronze hound]

im making a point that mag doesnt matter

as long as its over 3

[onyx sage]

as i said earlier, with headhunter single shot damage trumps all, so m870 wins over all other choices just due to it having the highest base damage because it would produce the highest number to one tap an enemy

[bronze hound]

burst for ksg is 693k burst for m870 is 869k

[tight robin]

Why is that? Pummel doesn't proc on burst; it procs on 3 kills. In fact, that probably also gives tubular mags an advantage in that you can do a partial reload to get your full reload if you can't get three kills in one mag. (Maybe because you have crap aim, like me.)

[bronze hound]

because burst damage is rate of fire times shot damage

which actually matters

[tight robin]

Ok, yeah; if you're bringing in Headhunter, sure. I don't use Headhunter on my HF build. (Though perhaps I should?)

[glossy scarab]

even if you're only hitting 500k per pellet with m870 thats 4 million per shell. and i regularly hit over a mil per pellet

[bronze hound]

why arent you using hh

[tight robin]

Never thought about it.

[bronze hound]

theres no other useful talents

besides intimidate which we just discussed yesterday

[vestal ibex]

Low cap shotguns with high base damage shine with HH.

[bronze hound]

^

one-shotting everything is awesome lol

[tight robin]

Ah, right. I was thinking about useful talents, and someone mentioned that there really weren't any. But of course there is headhunter, so yeah, I should probably do that.

[bronze hound]

hh is the only one

[onyx sage]

there are 2 different metas when we talk about shotguns here, with HH you would rather use pummel and high base damage shotguns even though they aren't mag fed (which means they would reload slower). with lower base damage and higher rof and better reload pummel still works but they wouldn't be used with headhunter, but rather crit-based builds

[bronze hound]

then its just a traditional red dps striker build

but in that situation an AR outperforms a shotgun

[onyx sage]

with striker chest, shotguns actually outperform ARs

[vestal ibex]

If you really wanna put this idea to the test just try out a few different shotgun builds and swap shotguns to see which one really shows you the best results.

[bronze hound]

false

[tight robin]

My HF is crit-based; not sure how HH would change that.

[vestal ibex]

WAT

[bronze hound]

thats false

[bronze hound]

wtf why

oh nvm

yeah change it to headshot

[onyx sage]

why is it false? it's done all the time in speedruns

[vestal ibex]

Oh that swift edit yo

[bronze hound]

depends on what speedrun we are referring to

[onyx sage]

legendary

[bronze hound]

im pretty sure WR for legendary TB uses determined

[onyx sage]

not for group

[bronze hound]

yes solo

[onyx sage]

group is still 3 striker chest with 1 EP

[vestal ibex]

I'm pretty sure current WR TB does in fact abuse determined.

[bronze hound]

^ pretty sure its held by swift4010 right now

[tight robin]

It's the old Intimidate one. I'm currently running it with Memento, if you remember, because I was told that would keep Intimidate up better.

[onyx sage]

yeah solo i know is swift's record

[bronze hound]

just make a hsd one with hh

[tight robin]

Main issue is I'm just not a fast player, so actually a Headhunter build makes a lot more sense for me, I think.

So what does one put on the pack for that?

[vestal ibex]

Fast player?

[livid horizon]

6m per pellet with HH

[onyx sage]

headhunter is more reliant on your aim which would require you to be somewhat fast

[bronze hound]

skill issue

[tight robin]

Like, I'm terrible at speed runs. I tend to move very slowly and deliberately.

[livid horizon]

It really doesnt

[tight robin]

Yes. I'm not skilled at rushing through things. That would seem to me to indicate, "Use a build where you don't need to rush."

[livid horizon]

HH builds are very squishy and require you to be up close 1 shotting mobs before they kill you.

[bronze hound]

unless you use LE

[vestal ibex]

Yeah if you HF HH you have to be up on spawns and procing HF disorient.

[onyx sage]

this is the kind of gameplay you would do with m870 headhunter

it's not very forgiving

[livid horizon]

Yes, exactly this.

Nice work btw

[onyx sage]

thanks, been a long while ago

[bronze hound]

aok covers it

[glossy scarab]

i use the HF backpack for the doubled disorient radius. it helps so much more than you woud expect

[bronze hound]

what do you run instead

[glossy scarab]

when im not using vigilance anyway

[bronze hound]

i use memento

[vestal ibex]

Prob punch drunk or DCH

[bronze hound]

dch makes sense

[vestal ibex]

Those would be my options

[flint wave]

kid named determined:

[bronze hound]

TU19:

Features:

Foxes can now scream

[bronze hound]

ok but

why

[vestal ibex]

This is all in reference to HF shotgun builds

[flint wave]

I saw hh

[glossy scarab]

it stuns a lot more enemies. like i said i usually run vigilance but this is fun tooo

[bronze hound]

i meant the mask

[vestal ibex]

Shotguns? Idk if that little extra shotgun damage is more than the HSD punch drunk offers tho.

[bronze hound]

why tf you running badger

[glossy scarab]

yeah youre probaby right

[onyx sage]

a bit more at top end actually

[flint wave]

extra headhunter damage

because head hunter is weird

[bronze hound]

does sgd scale with hh?

[onyx sage]

yeah ofc, it's wd

[vestal ibex]

Higher base damage be thicc for HH.

[flint wave]

Punch drunk doesn't do a thing after stacks

[glossy scarab]

honestly i just wanted an excuse to use that mask since it came with those attributes

[vestal ibex]

I just default for extra pistol damage cause I'll have regulus and the shotgun is really over the top damage.

[bronze hound]

after stacks its less important

[onyx sage]

understandable

[bronze hound]

yeah dch/pd is better imo

[livid horizon]

A headhunter sniper (hotshot) build might really suit you.

[vestal ibex]

I mean I don't think it's going to be world changing for that build anyway, probably wouldn't notice between the two.

[onyx sage]

yeah

[flint wave]

you will notice dch

I would assume

[bronze hound]

^

Definitely

[onyx sage]

dch is definitely the better pick

[bronze hound]

I should swap to dch tbh

[onyx sage]

i have 2 hhf builds, typical one with vigilance and the other with dch and HF backpack

[bronze hound]

Which do you use more

[onyx sage]

first one

[flint wave]

man if only the non reg pistols didn't have atleast 320k less base damage then it

[tight robin]

I've got a Hotshot build; it's not too bad for me though I really need to work on my aim. Thank God for the Determined bug! :-)

[vestal ibex]

You thought much about alpha damage @tight robin?

I see you taking notes and debating stuff.

[flint wave]

determined bug needs to stay as determined feature for pistols

[vestal ibex]

Was wondering if you've put thought to it.

[onyx sage]

yeah i did ask them earlier if they were interested in learning more about headhunter too

[glossy scarab]

i cant remember how i was able to get this on a sniper build but does that damage help HH?

[onyx sage]

yes

[bronze hound]

Looks like 3/2/1

[glossy scarab]

yeah it was a mix

[flint wave]

1 airaldi 2 Habs 3 hotshot?

[bronze hound]

Yes

[glossy scarab]

probably. i'd have to go mess around with it for a while

[onyx sage]

321 meta let's go

[bronze hound]

It's the best combo for max damage

[tight robin]

What do you mean? The damage of one shot?

[bronze hound]

I have no fucking clue what alpha damage is

[flint wave]

the superior state of damage

gotta be

[onyx sage]

alpha damage refers to rather burst damage in a few shots rather than just 1 (seems to originate from world of tanks), but in div2 with headhunter it refers to damage with one shot yeah

[tight robin]

I don't recall hearing about Alpha in WoT (which I've played quite a lot--much more than Div2) but perhaps I've just forgotten about it.

[vestal ibex]

Alpha damage is a single shot, a does it kill or not. A true false type of idea.

[bronze hound]

I mean that's the premise of snipers isn't it

[vestal ibex]

Snipers, shotguns, pistols, chem launcher.

[onyx sage]

regardless, it was fun diving into the math of headhunter for me

[tight robin]

Right; that makes sense. Sure. I have to think about it when using sniper builds where my next shot's damage depends on whether my previous shot did a kill or not.

[vestal ibex]

Yeah but once you start to think of how that impacts your builds it can be pretty interesting in the choices you are allowed to make for a build.

[onyx sage]

it will open up a lot of viability for your builds, and it also helps that it's a top tier talent

[tight robin]

Hm. Why would you be concerned with alpha damage except as it affects your next shot damage?

[bronze hound]

If you're trying to one shot bosses

[vestal ibex]

Because you open up fights without HH a lot of times and you have to know what enemy/diff/player scale you can one shot.

[tawdry flare]

yup

that is why i run tac 50

upto legendary vetran no problem

[vestal ibex]

I kinda want to make a one shot spreadsheet that you put your no/half/full stack damage into that will just show what you can one shot with your build at what stacks. Would just toggle red/green for what enemies you can kill.

[tawdry flare]

it is possible we have the health data

for npcs

just copy paste dmg calculator cause the 1st shot dmg will be same

after hh is. a different story

[onyx sage]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17A9O2lhSsrO8Bfo-fVW_JP09m96e3iaCsY1Wv_lPgU4/edit#gid=421960504

there's a spreadsheet me and a friend made here that does that

[tawdry flare]

why is it asking for access

[onyx sage]

oh wait a bit

[tawdry flare]

you forgot the access settings

[onyx sage]

try again

[tawdry flare]

Mobile sucks

[vestal ibex]

This is why I ask or mention things cause most people have done these things and I'm super ADHD.

[onyx sage]

haha

[tawdry flare]

lol

[tight robin]

I generally just work from lowest to highest, but I guess that option is not always so easy when you're doing it with a shotgun instead of an MMR.

[tawdry flare]

that is always the preference

but enemies don't spawn according to you

[vestal ibex]

Shotgun can be a little difficult with HF because they bend down with the disorient.

[tawdry flare]

i tried tac50 in manning national in their face was funny as fuck

[vestal ibex]

It's all practice tho. What's good is good for a reason.

[onyx sage]

which is still a rather predictable animation and can be learned away. shock animation on the other hand...

[tawdry flare]

shock animation uhh

those are really shocking animation

[tight robin]

Yeah, same issue with blinding enemies when you're a sniper.

[tawdry flare]

like why do they bend their knees why so submissive

[onyx sage]

or setting them on fire

[tawdry flare]

my neighbour killed me ig rn

[flint wave]

I like how flash grenade is direct anti synergy with snipers/sharpshooter spec

[tawdry flare]

even better is the firewall grenade vs survivalist grenade

[tight robin]

Not to mention the Survivalist grenade vs. pistol.

[tawdry flare]

the only spec weapon worth it is the firestarter shotgun

[vestal ibex]

Burn then bots yo.

[tawdry flare]

also skills too

[tight robin]

Oh, I just realised why I'm so keen on the KSG shotgun when using Pummel: I invariably run Ammo Hoarders, so no tactical reloads.

[tawdry flare]

m870 does the same thing just better but on heroic and below you are not going to notice the difference

[tight robin]

Well, I'll give it another try.

[tight robin]

I just tried this out and, yes, I'm quite pleased with the greater stagger range.

[glossy scarab]

nice

[sonic sapphire]

Got it from season exotic cache 🥳

[tulip charm]

gz

[hexed steppe]

Nice, one of the hardest working single pieces in the game . 🍻

[lunar spindle]

my bad i was wondering which one actually provides more damage? since ongoing is amplified damage and future is total weapon damage

[pastel vine]

When looking at the weapons on the pinned spreadsheet, for PVE are we looking for sustain or burst damage to rank weapons at any given time?

[blissful rampart]

in general look at burst damage but also need to consider high damage per mag so you can still 1 mag enemies (for all automatic guns)

[blissful rampart]

they are about the same (since FI is also higher) BUT FI also has much higher uptime (since easier condition and not based on kill)

[vestal ibex]

Can't forget optimal range is pretty important too, you might think a smg will be godly but you need to be in the optimal range.

[glossy scarab]

one of my FI builds has team damage of 25% from FI, 15% from the setup, and 20% from scorpio. when i check the numbers on my first shot and compare it to the shots i take with all the buffs active the jump is crazy 51% increase in crit pellet dmg

[vestal ibex]

Yeah well FI is TWD or skill damage, vs the other two being amp damages. It do be thicccc boi damage especially if 7 others gain that ya know.

Also why you see the FI build with setup vs alps. That extra 5% amp is a lot for 3-7 people to take advantage of.

[blissful rampart]

you mean the extra %5 amp from amp over FI? not how it works since its also lower.

they are near the same since FI is higher but also FI has much higher uptime compared to OD

OD x vigilance x GC
1.2x 1.25 x1.25 = 1.875

FI + vigil x GC
1.5 x 1.25= 1.875

[flint wave]

The real question is red FI or ongoing directive

if I also want to do damage myself while grouping

[onyx sage]

no i think he was talking about setup (perfect opportunistic) vs regular opportunistic tbh

[blissful rampart]

Still FI, even as Red

while groupping, FI is just stronger then OD.

[patent fossil]

but to what extent is that offset by the lower damage output from the FI player?

[blissful rampart]

hard to math that because of buff uptime.

[flint wave]

And also if people take 2 damage and the buff is lost

[blissful rampart]

but OD being on status kill and only giving half a mag to others = less uptime then something with less conditions (ie FI just be full health)

yes and no, need to take white armor damage, (not bonus armor damage)

[flint wave]

yeah but fi isn't the one giving bonus armor

Atleast that's what I would think

[blissful rampart]

correct but talking group wide

like IF both are 100% uptime, they are near the same group buff but OD has a little more personal dps. but that is not the case as FI buff is easier to have higher uptime with then OD (group wide)

[serene crow]

how can i make this build better been out of the game for a long time

[icy ruin]

What content are you using this build for? (PVP, heroics, legendaries, raids, etc.)

[serene crow]

Not sure just come back to game

[icy ruin]

Build will depend on content. You are currently on the way towards the standard high end DPS raid build. If that's the direction you'd like to go, I'd change the backpack talent to Vigilance. Swap the guns for AR or Rifle. Check your CHC and CHD. If they're not around 50/150, swap the gloves for Ceska. Also try to roll off those blue and yellow attributes.

With a high end DPS build, you can bully your way through much of the PVE content. Just remember to use cover as needed, learn spawn points, and so on

[hexed steppe]

high end dps like you are built is still viable. ideal chest and bag talents will be glass or obliterate chest, vigilance on bag. just make sure youre pushing at least 50% critical hit chance and all other attributes should be critical hit damage. ARs will do much better on this than pesti, so famas/police m4/carbine 7/st elmos all fit into this build. also m1a classic, m1a cqb as secondary will be solid for dps. can also scorpio the secondary if running a high end ar

[vestal ibex]

I was referring to perfect opportunistic vs regular version.

I haven't even built OD and may never unless it's some niche speed running thing.

[round zinc]

Can someone explain red FI for me

Like FI is obviously a yellow set and using less yellow means your healing hive is weaker so whats the incentive?

[vestal ibex]

It's for when healing isn't important, so you gain another player who does pretty good damage while also giving the FI buff to your team.

[onyx sage]

it's just for the 4p FI where you rely on your teammates to play well and not get hit, and you yourself can also deal damage

4p FI doesn't require you to even do any healing

[vestal ibex]

Oh you can still do a better heal than you think if you are next to your teammates with heal chem.

[surreal depot]

"rely on your teammates" 💀

[vestal ibex]

You don't even play anymore!

[onyx sage]

^

where are my chameleons

[surreal depot]

I played too much of a certain game recently and that phrase hurts tbh

[onyx sage]

same tbh, waiting for new season so i get more incentive to tryhard again

[surreal depot]

Waiting for your world first solo incursion

[tawdry flare]

with chameleon

[onyx sage]

imagine

[round zinc]

Truly a Chameleon moment

[limber field]

Bruh I literally sold my Acosta bag accidentally

Lmfao

[vestal ibex]

Rip missed out on that exotic component.

[round zinc]

I guess you can call it the Acosta Gone bag now

[tight robin]

Don't worry. Just keep opening crates, particularly locked ones, and you'll see another one soon enough. And another one after that, and another one after that....
(I'm sure that, of my 200 exotic parts, 40 of them are from deconstructed Acosta bags.)

[limber field]

good one fr

[placid shuttle]

sold, or donated? cause vendors have a buyback tab

[limber field]

It was at a safe house...

[placid shuttle]

the buyback tab shows all items sold to any vendor as long as it was sold in the same game session

so just go find any random vendor and check

[limber field]

no longer the same game session, that shits gone

[placid shuttle]

RIP

[limber field]

im honestly not that mad as i never used nor planned to use it, but still didnt mean to do that

just looking for ninjabike and catharsis

[hoary atlas]

I just demolished Rogue Agent Player with this 💀

Except UG replace with Fenris and Kneepads are Armor Regen + Crit damage

[flint wave]

Also needs some unbreakable action

[cyan drift]

aim circle size of send-off, braced, and golden bullet

can legitimately mid-range snipe headshots with it

[cyan drift]

baker's dozen is also a must-use during GB

it has zero recoil

and I don't mean "zero recoil" I mean none, at all

like, your camera doesn't move, it's like you enabled an easy aiming cheat code or something

[hexed steppe]

It's good practice to mark anything you may want to save as favorite as you get it. Itll save you from selling or mistakenly destroying while adding attribute to library/junk decon.

Shouldnt be selling anything tbh, the mats are worth more as any excess can be donated to expertise proficiency or used for expertise upgrades/crafting/shd weekly donation project.

[hexed steppe]

Aka Bullet Prince
Yeah bakers is nice in GB 👍

[tight robin]

If you're low on cash, which is needed for Recalibration, selling Named items can be worthwhile as you get 2.5-3x as much cash for those as for regular items, but they deconstruct into the same amount of mats as regular items. I generally sell Named items until I've got at least a couple hundred thousand E-credits.

[livid horizon]

It's actually quicker to do bounties for cash

[tight robin]

If you're really short, yeah, doing a bounty is going to get you cash within five or ten minutes, whereas you won't collect a dozen Named items in ten minutes.
But I'm not saying that you should go out search for Named items to earn cash, I'm just saying that since you're coming across them anyway, they can help keep your cash balance up with no extra time expenditure at all. (It's just clicking the "sell" key instead of the "junk" key when you're going through your non-fave items list at the vendor.)

[livid horizon]

for mats > deconstruct.
for cash > bounties.

[tight robin]

Well, I disagree; selling named items has been very helpful to me when low on cash but not completely broke. If you want to give up a thousand credits for 300 credits worth of mats, that's your choice, though.

[livid horizon]

Its inefficient but you do you

[tight robin]

It's not inefficient. It's inefficient to break down Named items unless you have a surplus of cash or are very short of mats (in which case you don't care about the inefficiency) because of the price/mats differential.

[livid horizon]

The time it takes to manually go through selecting named items as junk first, then selling those, then going through the rest of your gear to descontruct is a waste of time.

[tight robin]

That time is zero, because you're going though them at the vendor if you're doing it the easy way. You have to make a choice to junk or keep anyway, this just adds a third, one-click option: sell.

[gentle lichen]

I honestly just use points.

[tight robin]

I think the inefficiency here is that you're really inefficient in going through your new items. :-)

[livid horizon]

You're in the white house doing that, while I've already deconstructed everything and im half way through another bounty collecting more loot / mats / cash.

[livid horizon]

?See thats where you're wrong. I'm not at the vendor at all

[tight robin]

Well, then, you're slowing yourself down; for any reasonable quantity of items it's faster to travel to a vendor and do them all than to try to sort through each of the sections of your inventory and have the new ones mixed in with the original ones. Or you're sorting at pick-up time, and doing the mission/bounty/whatever slower.

Anyway, that's how it is, but you do you.

[livid horizon]

Auto decontruct, deconstruct after looking > both are quicker than fast travelling back to white house and doing your loot twice

[tight robin]

Ah! There's the issue. You weren't aware that you don't have to do loot twice; you can just hold F to pick it up while running over it.

[livid horizon]

You're sorting your loot twice at the vendor

[tawdry flare]

press x while picking up the loot

[livid horizon]

I'm not going through and looking for named items, marking them for junk, then selling junk, then going through the rest of my gear and deconstructing. Takes too long and is not worth it for the measly amount of credits you get from the few named items you might happen to pick up on a mission.

[tight robin]

No, I'm not. Seriously. I used to do it your way, and the reason I don't anymore is becuase a vendor sort is faster. (And you don't need to do it at the White House; you can do it at any vendor, including the cabinets at safe houses.)

[livid horizon]

You're much better off deconstructing all gear in 1 min, then carrying on getting more gear/cash/mats via playing

[tight robin]

Right. I recommend you don't do that either. Do it all in one go as you go through all your items in one pass.

[livid horizon]

so how do you sell named items?

[tight robin]

You click the "sell" key instead of the "junk" key.

[livid horizon]

individually clicking sell for each item?

[tight robin]

Individually clicking "sell" or "junk" for each item. Except those that are items I'm looking for, of course. I usually just mark those as "recalibrate" and sort through them (including comparing with existing items) in a single pass.
Of course, if you need no more items at all because you already have a perfect version of everything you will ever use, yeah, then just deconstruct immedaitely because you're also certainly in a situation where you have been playing that character long enough that you have more cash than you need as well.

[livid horizon]

I already know that you take way longer than me to sort gear

[tight robin]

Lol. Sure, whatever. And I already know that you tend to argue for the sake of arguing.

[livid horizon]

Your problem is that you refuse to accept when you're incorrect and will argue the case anyway. You've given bad advice before and refused to accept it was wrong then too (i wasnt involved in that dicussion).

Telling peeps to go to vendor to sort between junk and named items, then individually selling them is a massive time sink. I'm guessing you spend minutes at the vendor doing this and think that's efficient.

Its far quicker to quickly mark junk then deconstruct without any fast travelling or loading screens/running to vendors. If you need cash, fastest way is Bounites, if you need mats, Countdown.

[hexed steppe]

Watch points are 10k credits per point.
Best use for items is library>expertise>mats. if someone is running such a deficit in credits they need to sell items then they need to reevaluate what they are doing in game and focus on bounties like suggested above or focus on leveling and not wasting scavenging points on materials that are readily available.
The only thing points really need to be spent on are cash>shd calibrations... obv if someone is using wony runs to level it is more like cash>PF.

So let me ask you, since I know you are doing usage proficient... are you selling excess named items instead of donating them to the expertise bench?

[hexed steppe]

💯
Even quicker to just hold Z on all pickups as well 🤣
But maybe that's just me, im not farming for much gear these days 😅

[patent elm]

Please don't open that can of worms again there was a "discussion" a couple of days ago started by exactly that which made me angry just reading it and not checking in here for like 2 days and now that I do that's the first message I see cmon

[hexed steppe]

Again, I'm unconcerned about your feelings on this.
Replying to someone else not you. Maybe you should look* more at why this is coming up constantly than the responses to kinda faulty ideas

[tight robin]

....are you selling excess named items instead of donating them to the expertise bench?
Yes, though that's not relevant to this discussion. I'm not suggesting that people sell instead of donate, if they can and want to donate.
Watch points are 10k credits per point.
Yup. But watch points are also 25 Titanium. Will you get that from deconstructing Named items? No.

[tight robin]

As for why it's "coming up constantly," it appears that there are people here who think There Is Only One Right Way to do things, and any discussion of alternatives needs to be beaten down upon as quickly as possible.

[hexed steppe]

Its relevant as it illustrate the amount of inefficiency you introduce in your own usage of items, and maybe that inefficiency colors some of the advice you offer.

Solar farm exists. Tons of mats, daily reset, <10 minutes to gather the resources.

Now, take a look at the cost to craft a single shd calibration and figure how many watch points it would take for all its component mats.
Cash and shd calibrations are the most efficient use of watch points. Mats are really a meager return on those points.

[tawdry flare]

titanium can be looted in open wirld currency can't

enemies drop mats

not money

[tight robin]

I agree that SHD calibrations are one of the best uses of the watch. I disagree that cash is a good one, though I'd be happy to see a comparison expressed in watch scavanger points of the cash and mats you get from selling and deconstructing Named items.

[tight robin]

So you should never deconstruct Gear Set items because they produce Titanium (and two other mats) that you can find in the open world?

[tawdry flare]

if i am full why i should

it's just Managing inventory

efficiently

[cyan drift]

I think they broke it before the next update 🤣

[vestal ibex]

Yeah couple weeks ago.

[hexed steppe]

it would take you longer to collect enough items to hit 10k credits than it would to generate a single shd point for the same 10k.
thats why i consider cash a good option for SHD points. my opinion is also colored by expertise, and at 10% the SHD cost of PF, cash is king when using points to proficient an item.

[cyan drift]

^THIS^

-is why I tell people to get and use the Send-Off, cause it's dirt cheap

dirt cheap for a decently underrated shotgun

[urban latch]

In terms of leveling experience, spending cash at vendors to buy everything your not proficient in each week is a more efficient use of shd points than anything else

[patent elm]

After that it's printer filament?

[vestal ibex]

Well it's dumb. It's better to use SHD on credits to buy mods to decon them if you don't care about your time spent. Ain't nobody got time for that.

[hexed steppe]

after cash yeah pf, if you dont want carpal tunnel

an extra wony run is pretty easy when you think about the low amount of mod space you have and time spent actually buying decon the mods

its 500 purchased and decon mods for 1 item proficient if you go that route

[urban latch]

Depending on how quickly your going through wony and what your shd is, it can be more efficient to just go directly into printer filament

[hexed steppe]

more time efficient for sure, it does cost a bit more 💯

[glossy scarab]

i think i'll just be getting printer filament from scav points. buying that amount of mods is insane

[hexed steppe]

i think its 227 shd for mod route and 300shd for pf route

30shd for vendor purchase>donate named route

cheaper for regular weapons

[tawdry flare]

as i have said befor gacha game inventory management >>> div2 inventory management

[hazy steeple]

That's because those "gacha" games are designed to surgically extract your wallet, but the surgery is done with a big neon hammer.

I've never had a problem with inventory management in either div game.

[tight robin]

I tried out buying mods and it wasn't worth the time and effort for me. Doing another WONY run isn't too exciting either, but better than sitting there clicking buttons to buy and deconstruct.

[hazy steeple]

Why not just run a few Countdown's with mods as the TL, then decon everything?

[bronze hound]

apparently some people do have issues with it

idk how but they do

(well i do know how im just not gonna point fingers at specific individuals)

[urban latch]

Because depending on your shd it's FAR faster to do a wony run

[bronze hound]

It's usually around 60-80 filament per run

[hazy steeple]

I always assume people asking for farming methods at this point are fairly new, or at least new enough to still want to be active in their farming, and not mindlessly grind.

[bronze hound]

Fair

[livid horizon]

Are you new? And have you maxed out Expertise?

[flint wave]

shd grinding really turned into a job at some point

[vestal ibex]

I try to tell them to passively do it until they feel a need to grind it. Expertise isn't a big deal.

[hazy steeple]

@livid horizon Yes I'm totally new, haven't been playing since day 1 or anything.
(technically it was before day 1, but the box didn't arrive until too late so RIP).

[bronze hound]

😭

Deleted a super cute video 😭

[livid horizon]

My point is, even veterans like yourself have no clue what the fastest methods are

[hazy steeple]

I am very aware of what the fastest methods are, I just think it's a bad idea to get someone to hate the game this fast.
and that is exactly what going hard on grinding stuff early on will do./

Life is too short to play games you hate.

[livid horizon]

You're very aware of what the fastest methods are? The above comment clearly says otherwise

[urban latch]

No one in this whole conversation is new. It was just a conversation about how to spend shd points

[flint wave]

fastest method for me probably because I'm not shd 6000

[livid horizon]

thousands of SHD levels vs running countdown for printer filament ... shrug

i think I'd hate the game a lot faster running CD that many times

[hazy steeple]

Where exactly is the SHD level of everyone listed? Because I keep on missing that in the discord patch notes.

[flint wave]

under 1000

[tawdry flare]

bot has been updated and the data got wiped no backup has to train again

[hazy steeple]

Amazon decided that since I live in another country to where I bought it, it would be okay if I got it late.

[livid horizon]

If you're a veteran I'd expect it's be around 2k at least - but you go farm CD instead

Unless you're still on your way to 1k

[hazy steeple]

You got me, SHD 284, I'd post a screenshot but my old HDD got mangled in the "incident".

[livid horizon]

3-5 hours of WONY gets you thousands of sdh points. Nothing comes close to that as far as Im aware

[flint wave]

it doesn't give me thousands of shd points

[tawdry flare]

depends on players shd too only viable if like maybe above 1k

[flint wave]

trash game ong

[livid horizon]

Of course, but we're not new tho 😂

[hazy steeple]

Correct if you have a high SHD level as others mentioned, but I never denied that it's effective in that case.
I just suggested an alternate if someone wanted something else, compared to buying mods.

and somehow it spawned a "you arent a real vet" conversation that got tiring 2 years ago.

[flint wave]

Someone was buying mods to get printer filament? My condolences

[tawdry flare]

yeah definitely

[livid horizon]

Why not just run a few Countdown's with mods as the TL, then decon everything?

That is a question, not a suggestion.

but anyways

[hazy steeple]

I'll make sure to PM you everything I send from now on so the wording is properly done.

[tawdry flare]

@livid horizon get an anti-bot

[hazy steeple]

No anti-virus works on me because I was made with Vista.

[tawdry flare]

i have norton for xp should work

[urban latch]

The thing is if someone is low enough shd then just forget about the whole exp system and just play like normal. Grinding countdown for mods is just a terribly slow way to level exp, to the point that wony runs will match that rate even before 1k. It's just not recommended that early because it's just not worth it

[hazy steeple]

I have no idea why you tagged me with that, I already said that several times in various ways.

[hazy steeple]

here.

[urban latch]

Because your the one that came into the conversation recommending that, no one else was talking about countdown

[tawdry flare]

bruh what do you think of enforcer ?

[livid horizon]

Just don't try to pretend you were suggesting something, it's ok to not know

[urban latch]

It's better than the tsunami but not as good as a m870 or ksg with regular pummel

[flint wave]

Extremely accessible

[hazy steeple]

Genuinely, stop it now. I don't know if this is trolling or not but I am not in the mood for this today.

[flint wave]

Should definitely farm for

[tawdry flare]

thank hod at leas you agree i was watching dod and he rated it below tsunami i was like

[tawdry flare]

dev gave it for free to me perfectly accessible

caise it is just a super 90 with missing dttoc

[flint wave]

must be nice being arias mate

[tawdry flare]

@bronze hound thnx for the enforcer

[livid horizon]

It's not trolling at all. Meerly pointing out the obvious. But yeah I'm boared of it too.

[tight robin]

You seem to be extremely confident in your claims to knowledge of what other people know and do.

[livid horizon]

Can't kid a kidder

[tight robin]

Actually you can. But I expect you feel you have superior knowledge about that, too.

[hexed steppe]

So anyways, who has the most rediculous build for GB for me to put together

[vestal ibex]

Ridiculous damage or a wtf this is actually good kek lol type thing?

[hexed steppe]

Wtf is this

🤣

[tawdry flare]

5.11 sleigher the absolute meta weapon which regulus can't even touch

[vestal ibex]

It needs to work tho

[tawdry flare]

maybe 5.11 with m870 hh

should work

cause hh and m870 is that good

[hexed steppe]

I been running around with HH wd most of it so far

[livid horizon]

2 striker + 3 Umbra + NinjaBackpack + ChatterBox - RPM overload

[hexed steppe]

That may be interesting

[tawdry flare]

yeah that is good

for gb also why chatter cause i don't think gb counts that as reload have to reload first with the buff

[hexed steppe]

Can manual reload and not worry about it

[vestal ibex]

Doesn't matter, once you have the buff it go BRRRRRRR

[tawdry flare]

maybe maybe perfect outsider

[vestal ibex]

Even without GB you'd get half a mag back on kill

[tawdry flare]

true i forgot chatter and mistook it for lady death

[hexed steppe]

I was thinking of doing something with oxi spam as well

[tawdry flare]

I have used them but need 2 players

on kill oxi refill like wtf

[vestal ibex]

Do a TOTS gunner build because it might be your last chance?

[hexed steppe]

Yeah it was good on f10 when GB was active

[livid horizon]

Is there a cap on RPM?

[hexed steppe]

You could send out like 25 oxi no problem 🤣

[tawdry flare]

maybe tots grenade launcher build

[tawdry flare]

idts

cause ouroboros golden bullet is gonna be broke

50 round in 1s

[flint wave]

maybe tots flamethrower build

🧠

[vestal ibex]

I think it should be tots as a send off before the nerf.

Might be your last time to enjoy the set.

[tawdry flare]

yeah

[vestal ibex]

Go tots explosive and use the missile launcher.

[tawdry flare]

mhh for shd 19 it is very good

[flint wave]

ok the biggest problem is ninja bike over striker bag

[spice rapids]

so sould i put on my striker bp?

[tawdry flare]

yup

[flint wave]

Yes that damage is very hard to pass up

[tawdry flare]

and remove the petrov for groupo mask

[flint wave]

or coyotw

[tawdry flare]

if you have that

[spice rapids]

got one with 15% dmg

[tawdry flare]

also ranger is very dependent on. range so 1.5mil is not accurate unless you guve the range