td2-build-advice

[hoary atlas]

Wannabe The Hunters

😂

[thin patrol]

yes its fun , and i like the fast reload speed it has. mp7 and The apartment is my favorite smgs

[slate wedge]

my favourite rn is the tac vector with unwavering and next update it will be the ouroboros

[tawdry flare]

outsider is also good with that range

[tawdry flare]

ouroboros like smg range and accuracy problem

[hoary atlas]

Is anyone Sometimes use Unbreakable+ Catharsis

[slate wedge]

i mean i won't use it to crossmap people

[slate wedge]

safety distance out-DPS'es a Famas at 40m

[tawdry flare]

Safety distance *

[slate wedge]

ouh yeah bruh

[hoary atlas]

Use Catharsis+ Unbreakable is that bad idea ?

[tawdry flare]

even at 20m you are gonna feel the difference

[tawdry flare]

in pvp idts but i am not a PvP expert

[slate wedge]

yeah, thats why i don't like famas that much

[hoary atlas]

I mean for Pve

[tawdry flare]

not a good idea unless going a tank

[hoary atlas]

Do you have recommended Gear set Suitable for Tardigrade

[fickle light]

if you wanna find builds, check the spreadsheet pinned in this chat

[hoary atlas]

Alright might be I'm gonna experiment

[tawdry flare]

thnx aspect 😭

[hoary atlas]

It's time Grinding some System Corruption

[thin patrol]

i have one with 69,75 meter optimal range when the talent is active.

[tawdry flare]

😂 😂

[tawdry flare]

how many mod slots used for optimal range cause that is triple of the base

at least 3 mods i guess

[hoary atlas]

Is anyone Know how to get The Apartment SMG

[silk dirge]

Dark Zone or named Caches

It's a DZ only SMG

[fickle light]

the info on where each of the named items is able to be obtained is in the spreadsheet

[thin patrol]

I do not remember. But I tested 2 years ago a super 90 shotgun build with optimal range and 12x scope and did a cp4 . it was fun

[tawdry flare]

i wanna try pummel m870 with 12X

[magic pilot]

Best thing that would work is a memento pvp build

[hollow haven]

Any chameleon striker dps build suggestions???

[vestal ibex]

Make meta striker build, then put that gun on it. Then when you wanna do more damage switch to a better gun.

[patent fossil]

Meta being ceska obliterate chest and coyotes mask, the rest bring striker

[vestal ibex]

It's also in the spreadsheet in the pinned messages of this channel along with tons of other builds.

[tawdry flare]

should try meta hf build with chameleon cause the range is da problem

[vestal ibex]

Yeah range is pretty doo doo. I just hate how they made it an AR and gave it AR rpm but not range.

[tawdry flare]

should have done reverse smg rpm ar range

[silk dirge]

What's a good gear set or brand set for Just general use, not necessarily DPS, preferably cover based but not mandatory. Mainly use ARs and Shottys

[tawdry flare]

strikers or negotiators can kill everything

while regulus can't kill everything the only weakness it has

[silk dirge]

Negotiators... already got a strikers build but have been curious about the set, just not sure what the build would be

[tawdry flare]

check the pinned spreadsheet negotiators is de facto one of the best gear set

[silk dirge]

Noted, I'll take a look, thanks

[patent fossil]

for solo probably run it with memento and a ceska (unless using st elmos) chest with obliterate or unbreakable

in groups just swap memento for coyotes and nego backpack

[tawdry flare]

can use ninja buff /s

[vestal ibex]

Builds everyone should make and have.
EP-Fire and foam CC
Red HE dps
MMR build
FI healer
HF regulus/shotgun/smg
Striker

You should also try out a bunch of the other sets just so you know what they are like. There are tons of variations and things you can change for solo group.

[tawdry flare]

i don't have red high end dps 😂

[vestal ibex]

Well personally I only use it during the raid. I do highly suggest it for that tho.

[tawdry flare]

i may have the pcs in by bag but not saved as load out

[vestal ibex]

Meh, most builds should be tried out and used. If you are playing content with people and know what builds they are using you can help them perform better or make their job easier. I hate when I'm CC and I'll foam someone and they shoot the person next to them that's not foamed, or when people think having a healer means you can face tank lego.

[tawdry flare]

foaming someone happens a lot

[tawdry flare]

facetanking cannot be done even with overcharge cause the drone bi*ch blows the damm invincible shield

[vestal ibex]

Yeah I'm just a firm believer in make all the builds and try them all out to see what you like but also so you understand your teammates builds and take full advantage of them.

[hexed steppe]

Build it just like striker. Except grupo oblit chest. Coyote mask and rest nego including the bag

[tawdry flare]

when someone runs rainbow in legendary mission the best way to take advantage is to kick them out or force them to swap

[silk dirge]

Noted, and yeah... drone operators are just... evil.

[vestal ibex]

bUt I cAn SoLo AnY tHiNg Ez WiTh ThIs BuIlD.

[tawdry flare]

off korse yu kan Solo it then

[hexed steppe]

Sounds like a yt video title. Then you find out it's just a glass afk build

[bronze hound]

Someone pinged me and deleted it

[vestal ibex]

Youtube title this build hits like a truck and is a tank! It's just a striker chest with memento and a vector. Then we see people in here like man why does this build suck?

[bronze hound]

Lemme find who did it brb

[hexed steppe]

Must be nice. Employee benefit of being able to look at the logs 😅

[bronze hound]

@tawdry flare it was you

You said "I think @bronze hound forgot to program it correctly"

[tawdry flare]

i did not deleted that

[bronze hound]

My phone logs notifications lmao

[bronze hound]

32 minutes ago you did

[tawdry flare]

i typed it but not deleted it

[hexed steppe]

Busted

Rollback incoming

[bronze hound]

Oh you edited this message

[tawdry flare]

bruh you using mods

[bronze hound]

It's built into my phone

[tawdry flare]

which fone is that

[bronze hound]

Google pixel 7

[tawdry flare]

it lets you do that

[bronze hound]

Yes

[tawdry flare]

i am thinking of buying 7a

[tawdry flare]

does it heat up or take long time charging?

[bronze hound]

No?

[tawdry flare]

ok than maybe i should lock it

waiting for sale

[vestal ibex]

Hey I've got the pro version. It do be a good phone.

[tawdry flare]

i am gonna get 7a than

[thin patrol]

When I search on meta builds 2023 😂 just clickbaits

[bronze hound]

overpowered no meta

if it was overpowered it would be meta

[vestal ibex]

My favorite misleading titles are the heartbreaker ones where they say it's like 2.5 million armor because of the bonus armor.

[tawdry flare]

NBZ is the Rial MeTTa

4.5Million Armour nice

[flint wave]

tardigrade moment

[tawdry flare]

Tardigrade with unbreakable

[tight robin]

What is "HE" in "Red HE dps"?

[bronze hound]

high end

[vestal ibex]

Yeah basically all yellow and maybe an exotic depending on the build.

[onyx sage]

for solo play i recommend the holy trinity of striker, nego, HF

[tight robin]

For Future Initiative, I've got a note in my notes saying, "Not worth it without C [chest piece] unless +15% for others buffs high damage dealers." Is that really the case?

[onyx sage]

you always want the chest with FI

another choice would be empathic resolve but you have to keep up the healing to keep buff uptime

but with FI chest you don't have to heal at all, if your teammates play well they won't take hits and you wouldn't need to heal them

[tight robin]

I've found full-skill assault turret/striker drone to work well in most circumstances, too, and to be quite easy to play (if boring, after a while). It's on both my regualarly used characters for doing Legendary (and other things) when I don't feel up to working hard. I don't think I'm being carried when doing Legendary with it.

[tight robin]

And to confirm, chest is still +25% TWD/Sdmg?

[vestal ibex]

Should try out the explosive/mortar build for legendary if you really want to contribute.

[onyx sage]

base 4p is 15%, chest is +10%

[tawdry flare]

overwatch also good

wish it was a bit more powerful and not on a fucking fenris pcs

[vestal ibex]

Yeah but we are talking about active vs passive buff at this point. For almost all content you'd want the FI chest because you don't have to micro manage it. The only time these others are really worth it is in niche instances for the raid mostly.

[tawdry flare]

yup agree in legendary it requires much more managing cause drones and min tank Exists

[tight robin]

I must have the chest written down wrong; I have it as just adding damage output for the player wearing it.

[blissful rampart]

you have it wrong, its party wide buff (FI chest

[tight robin]

Yes, I just looked it up and realised I'd not written things down clearly in my notes. Now it makes sense.

[tawdry flare]

bruh you make notes you have got azurnote 32 ultra

[tight robin]

I have no idea what that is. I use the same thing I use for programming: Vim and Git.

[tawdry flare]

Vim nice you version control notes even more amazing

[tawdry flare]

refering to @blissful rampart spreadsheet pinned in the channel pretty sure he got the joke though if not i am gonna throw a grenade on myself

[onyx sage]

he also hates looking through binoculars for some reason

[tawdry flare]

yeah i wo der why

[tight robin]

Yeah, I have about a quarter million words of notes on IT, programming, electronics, retrocomputing, etc in one of my Git repos. It's all markdown files, and GitHub renders those nicely when I want to see the formatted versions (though usually I just read the text in Vim). It's sort of a programmer-style personal wiki, really.
And oh, that spreadsheet. The one I have permanently up in a pinned tab in my browser. :-)

[tawdry flare]

nice

[flint wave]

if only grenades did damage

[hexed steppe]

Probably PTSD from too many outcast rushers while scoped in. Beepbeepbeep

[onyx sage]

Come on, give me a hug!

[tawdry flare]

i tried but once rusher ran away

[hazy valve]

Assuming nemesis is the best sniper?

[junior surge]

The highest damaging one, yea.

[tawdry flare]

yeah the highest damage but very slow firing

[hazy valve]

So it's good but there are better options

[onyx sage]

and not really the best unless you really want that damage always, so most of the time people use white death

[junior surge]

When all you wanna do is kill a bunch of normal enemies, Nemesis can be a bit overkill and you can also run Mantis for utility or determined White death

[hazy valve]

Ok cool, gonna make my hardcore character a full fledged sniper lol

[urban latch]

Unless your making more of a determined build, I wouldn't really make a sniper build for HC. You'll want something that's more flexible at different ranges imo

[tawdry flare]

just make m870 sniper build with 12X

[flint wave]

Perfect focus hunters fury

op

[hoary atlas]

I'm gonna get system corruption

[hazy valve]

I've been loving hardcore more than regular mode, I have to plan my moves and be careful on what I do a lot more than just going up to everything and spraying them down lol, quite fun

[magic pilot]

For pvp?

[hoary atlas]

This

@magic pilot

Hybrid

[vestal ibex]

omw, just copy paste the build link yo

[hoary atlas]

That was "The Hunter" 😂

[hexed steppe]

Do you already have the system corruption pieces?

[magic pilot]

To utilize syscor effectively you want 6 blue core

If you are going crit I would run ceska/grupo or ceska/coyotes and have the 1 red

The longer you keep the bonus armor the more dmg you do. So you want to get the largest amount of armor from the kit

Also I would run optimist in pvp

Especially since the Meta is mostly blue core

https://mxswat.github.io/mx-division-builds/#/OwWgTCDM4gjCAGRympehAuS1pIhABx4alpZj5QwSSFkOqYCc1V5jZ2SJEH-jbmxgDRGTGABsk5LFgRYhVrGZIV8FX3GKQAFjgz54HjOCt+E3dFgBWThclA

If you have fenris over grupo it'll be around the same dmg I believe

@hoary atlas

Another option that works well is ceska chest with memento and EB as main weapon

You get a ton of bonus armor and tenacity will help keep it longer

[hoary atlas]

Fenris was supposed for AR damage ?

[night marten]

Hey yall is this an alright build?

[urban latch]

Main thing you can do to improve is getting a high end chest with a useful talent and swap the mask for a hunters fury one

[magic pilot]

Yea that'll be fine

[hoary atlas]

Allright

Thx

[tight robin]

For an Eclipse Protocol build, what's the skill generally used along with the Chem Launcher? Bleed doesn't do much damage, so I'm thinking maybe a Blinder or Demolisher Firefly, or maybe a Sticky Bomb.

[tawdry flare]

fire sticky

[tawdry flare]

demo firefly for dogs

[vestal ibex]

Fire sticky for damage, emp sticky, shock trap, blinder or demo fire fly. Kinda can pick whatever for CC cause it depends on the rooms.

[tight robin]

Hm. I think I'll go with Blinder Firefly, except when doing stuff with a lot of dogs or whatever, 'cause though there's no damage it has a huge blind time (>15s).

[tawdry flare]

as a cc yeah

[vestal ibex]

It really depends on the room and players you are doing CC for tho.

Emp sticky is really good on the cc build because it's cool down is shorter than it's duration so you can lock wally and dogs down if your dps kinda sucks.

Also most of us only ever use CC in legendary or to just mess around.

[onyx sage]

i think you'd rather have 2 different EP builds, one focusing on CC and another focusing on fire

[tawdry flare]

cc is always helpful no matter the mission

[hoary atlas]

Try check about this tardigrade build

[vestal ibex]

If you're doing heroic just run fire it'll CC and do damage.

[tawdry flare]

a foam cc will always be welcome no difficulty cap

[vestal ibex]

Meh. I'd rather have damage contribute to quickening the mission.

[bronze hound]

I think you sent the wrong photo cuz that's more a bunch of random items than a build

[hoary atlas]

Actually System corruption build it was work in progress

Try gonna get System corruption in dz

[vestal ibex]

You tried legacy season caches?

[bronze hound]

I'm so sorry for you

[patent elm]

Why nobody mentioning emp pulse

Best skill for black tusks

[bronze hound]

No?

Especially on legendary that's false lmao

[patent elm]

Yea im not running a fire eclipse on legendary

[vestal ibex]

Imo pulse duration/cool down is just crap.

[patent elm]

For cc Version, you obviously run something different

[tawdry flare]

with hw is good

seeker emp spam

[bronze hound]

Jammer pulse is kinda cringe outside razorback imo

[vestal ibex]

Keener mission tho

[bronze hound]

Thats what I said

[patent elm]

So what you do instead? Disable one dog with sticky?

[hoary atlas]

Yes but no luck

[vestal ibex]

Not the razor back part the SHD boxes, I figured you meant the raid when you said razor back.

[patent elm]

Also pulse can save you from the shit like black tusk dronds

When your team is to stupid to shoot them

[vestal ibex]

Lots of things change when you play with new/bad people.

[hexed steppe]

Better to have both. Riot foam/ fire sticky cc 😈

[patent elm]

Well if im running fire eclipse solo or in a random matchmaking team pulse is a lot more useful than anything else against bt in my experience

[vestal ibex]

I only ever cc in legendary, wt are really resistant to fire and it doesn't seem to do much damage in my experience.

[hexed steppe]

I CBA to run cc outside of countdown anymore tho. I dont waste time on legendary with randoms... no real need in heroic or lower for any eclipse tbh

Speed run league being the rare exception for fire builds

[tight robin]

Actually, come to think of it, Jammer Pulse would probably have been more helpful than the EMP sticky in the Black Tusk bounty I was just doing.

[vestal ibex]

You know how to instant use the sticky? Or have the key mapped?

[onyx sage]

i'd rather use EMP sticky and creeping death because you know where the dog spawns are, and the EMP sticky's low radius is compensated for by creeping death.

then you reap the high duration of EMP sticky

[vestal ibex]

You also get two shots from the sticky too. It emps on hit and detonation.

[hexed steppe]

Yeah creeping and cc eclipse are 😍

[tawdry flare]

yeah perfect creeping death is worth it

[hexed steppe]

What's the jammer diameter? Creeping emp would be 20m (10m in any direction)

[formal halo]

I just recently unlocked this gun... any build to go on DZ? I'm Expertice 11

[tawdry flare]

35m radius

[hexed steppe]

Eagleburger I'm guessing? Better off with st elmo most likely.

[hexed steppe]

Cool. More range but no double shot like the sticky

[formal halo]

Yeah EagleBusted

[hexed steppe]

I like that

[formal halo]

Is worth on DZ or nah? I'm new in the game

[hexed steppe]

I'm sure the tenacity can be worked with in dz but I have no good advice for that type of build

[tawdry flare]

if you like pvp than yes

[bronze hound]

eeee

[tight robin]

No; is it really that much better than tap deploy key and then tap left mouse button? Regardless, what I really needed was area effect that could stagger human enemies for a moment or two as well.

[hexed steppe]

Sticky has a quick double click to fire. Where ever you're aimed

[vestal ibex]

Instant use is really good. There are key binds for it too so you can one press. So for example you can be behind cover aim at an enemy go back into cover and it'll shoot directly to where you were aimed at. The sticky also becomes hit scan when you instant use it. You also know that the fire chems could can be lit on fire via a double press right?

[tight robin]

Yeah, I know about the double press; learning that was a game changer. I'll look into the instant use, thanks.

[vestal ibex]

Oh another use of instant use key binds is you can destroy deployed skills instantly vs press and hold if you press your instant use key and the regular use key at the same time.

[tight robin]

Oh, that's really nice. Ok, I've definitely got to find some way to set this up, though I don't know where I'll put the damn keys. (Currently I use Q and E for skills; 2 and 4 might work to allow me to press both regular and instant deploy at the same time.)

[vestal ibex]

I have an mmo mouse so I just assigned two keys on the side of it. It also will light your fire chems, drop hives, turrets, heal chems at your feet. It'll also let you OC on demand.

[royal cove]

Guys, whats the easiest build for solo'ing legendary mission? Asking for a noob friend 😄

[bronze hound]

HHF

[tight robin]

Yeah, I use just an 11-button mouse with six buttons under my thumb; that's about all I can handle easily. And all but one button have important assignments (weapon switching, etc.).

[patent elm]

Urm what elaborate please ? There are settings to make skills, especially chem launcher not horrible and clunky to use?

[bronze hound]

It's not clunky to use?

[vestal ibex]

Just scroll down key binds and find "instant skill use 1 & 2" or something like that. It is kinda nice cause you can light the chem clouds quickly but you can always light those clouds with a double press even if the launcher isn't out. It's all preference but having more options for how you'd like to accomplish the same goal is up to you.

[tight robin]

I just tested instant-use with the sticky, and it appears to me no different from regular use followed by immediately pressing LMB.
It doesn't work with the chem launcher at all, at least as far as launching goes (it just switches, like the regular button) and for pulse it does the same thing as tapping the regular key, which is sometihing you rarely want anyway.

[patent elm]

I didn't even know you could light the fire chem clouds without shooting at them tbh6

That's a complete game changer

[tight robin]

Yeah. The one super-annoying thing about the chem launcher is that if you're holding down RMB when you switch to it, it ignores that and leaves you not-aiming until you release RMB and press it again.

[vestal ibex]

I just find it fast/easier to aim at an enemy then just instant use vs pull out the sticky and be in this weird forced aim that the sticky does and then fire it.

[livid horizon]

Why hold rmb?

[tight robin]

Because you must in order to aim the Chem Launcher, and I'm usually using ADS (Aim Down Sights) and thus holding RMB anyway.

[livid horizon]

Toggle man

[tight robin]

Toggle makes no difference. You still have to enter ADS manually to use the chem launcher after switching to it, rather than immediately being in aim mode. Which means you have to wait for the switch and then time your click of RMB properly.

[livid horizon]

I've never had that super-annoying thing happen to me so there's clearly a difference

But it's not so easy switching to toggle if that's what you always use

[tight robin]

Well, I'm guessing you're just happier than me to live with an unnecessary delay between commanding a switch to the chem launcher and being able to use it.
Note that you don't get the delay when switching weapons or reloading while using ADS: as soon as either is done you are immediately aiming again.

[livid horizon]

I don't have any delay

[tight robin]

Yes you do. The delay between the time you're first able to fire and the time you press RMB.

[livid horizon]

That's there no matter what you do.

[livid horizon]

I use toggle cos it helps my aim. I don't aim as well when holding rmb for whatever reason. Toggle works much better for me in that respect.

[tight robin]

Oops, wait, I'm wrong about this I think. It seems that you can command ADS (by pressing RMB or whatever you use) before it's ready to fire, so long as you didn't have RMB held down while you commanded the chem launcher. So the sequence is: release RMB, press E, wait a very brief fraction of a second, press RMB. I guess I just need to practice that.
And that explains why the issue's not seen with toggle aim; the problem is about RMB being pressed, not whether you're in ADS mode or not.

Damn, you definitely have to wait a bit after tapping E before you command ADS, though.

Ah, ok, further practice shows that it's ok to hold RMB down while commanding the chem launcher, it's just that delay between when you command it, and when ADS starts working again, that was tripping me up.

[livid horizon]

Yea I don't think you can get away from that tbh. Seems part of the code.

I really dislike the double tap delay when you try to ignite the fire chem. So many times the enemy either rolls away or runs past the fire.

[tight robin]

Yeah, me too.

[bronze hound]

That delay is because it doesn't instantly deploy

Would be buggy as hell otherwise

[tight robin]

Sure, but they could just queue the double-tap when there's no deployed gas cloud and ignite it when deployment is complete.

[tough linden]

all red crit still works?

[magic pilot]

Yep

[tough linden]

cool no major changes correct? im returning after maybe 2 seasons

[livid salmon]

what all red?

[tough linden]

all red gear CHC/CHD

[livid salmon]

Yeah

[livid salmon]

St Elmos

Worth the return

[magic pilot]

Hotshot that's it

Determined

[livid salmon]

Hotshot meh idk

[magic pilot]

Hotshot is the best sniper setup now 3/4 piece

[livid salmon]

Determined one body shot works in single queue only

[magic pilot]

Especially since tots getting nerfed

Then your build isnt set right

I can one shot bosses up to 3 man heroic with white death

[livid salmon]

Is Regulus still a raid exclusive?

[magic pilot]

Yep

Only one locked to raid still

[livid salmon]

Aight

[hexed steppe]

only if its something with a helmet. you are forced to break helmet even if its a body shot. it still chains on anything else as long as youre buffed and have more damage than the npc health pool

i hit between 25-28 mil with determined wd, chain killer, charged* memento, 4p hotshot.

[stiff orbit]

I think i’ve found my favorite build in the game so far.

[vestal ibex]

Fyi after action reports aren't any sort of a scale of how good a build is, more so it's a player vs player comparison. I feel like you could get after action reports running 6 pc 5.11 just as easy.

[stiff orbit]

I guess i understand that point but truth I was only sharing the after actions report to show what the build was doing in game.

It’s a tank, a Dps, a healer, etc. It’s a jack of all trades situation.

There’s plenty of dmg, there’s plenty of utility, and i have a few versions of it that work with other weapon combinations.

[vestal ibex]

It's a hybrid. It's going to do most things okay, it's all preference at that point. The only thing I look at when I peep after action reports is the time taken. 36 minutes seems long for heroic but you probably carried hence the damage but still it seems long.

[stiff orbit]

oh yeah nah, i’ll be honest. It took that long because we ran into rogues and i was pretty much the only one who could do any damage.

[glossy scarab]

im really liking bloodsucker on this build. it hurts my damage but body crits at 786k is good enough. the bonus armor is worth it

[wicked onyx]

So I’m almost done with my St Elmo’s build

But want to see if there’s something I can do better

I just need a better Grupo chest with the right attributes so I can slap on an unbreakable but I want to see if there’s more to it that I can do

[glossy scarab]

doesnt look too bad, what the talent on the chest piece

[wicked onyx]

It’s..protected reload it sucks ass

[glossy scarab]

oof

[wicked onyx]

I don’t want protected reload. I feel like there’s a much better talent

[onyx sage]

i don't recommend unbreakable on full red tbh, it'd be better on more blues but if you already get one shot as full red, unbreakable won't save you, because you'd die on the second hit even though you're at full armor

[wicked onyx]

The stats are the stats I want but I’ve already recalibrated it so I can’t do much

[wicked onyx]

I also was recommended Obliterate

[onyx sage]

what generally saves you as full red is one-shot protection and you have it every 30s with any build

yes, obliterate is a much better choice

[wicked onyx]

Obliterate it is!!

[onyx sage]

oh wait, you are running some blues, so unbreakable has some value

[wicked onyx]

I’m still hitting small numbers. Idk if 400k-1M on a SHD level 228 is good

[onyx sage]

that's decent for your level

[wicked onyx]

To me it’s not good enough. That’s why I’m not satisfied.

[glossy scarab]

well get good so you can get rid of those armor cores

[onyx sage]

of course you can do better, but even top elmo strikers get around 1.2m with obliterate

but yeah run full red

[wicked onyx]

Would you take Unbreakable over Obliterate,

[onyx sage]

no

[wicked onyx]

Damn I should’ve just went full red to begin with

[onyx sage]

the faster ttk will save you more than the blues tbh

[wicked onyx]

Welp, at least it leaves me with something to do. I sucked ass 1yr ago and couldn’t do endgame content so I’m taking the game seriously and wanting to get there

[onyx sage]

you have to learn to play smart but that will surely come with time

[molten walrus]

has anyone tried OD as a support cc build yet? i have one made but curious on others experience/input

[wicked onyx]

I need re-learn how to be smart.

Also, does Sledgehammer affect all weapons or just the weapon that the talent is slotted on?

[onyx sage]

sledgehammer applies a debuff to the enemy, it will take more damage from all sources towards armor

[wicked onyx]

Gotcha gotcha

[onyx sage]

and also armor plates, those two are different, don't know if you need clarification

[wicked onyx]

Armor is colored bars right?

[onyx sage]

armor is white bar on top of health yeah, and armor plates are what chungas and dogs have

they are treated as health in damage calculations

[wicked onyx]

OHHHH those

[onyx sage]

so damage to armor does not affect them, hence why i have to be specific. regardless, sledgehammer affects both

[glossy scarab]

its good as a support build but just to give your team bleed bullets. spec'ing into the bleed and status effects i havent found that effective but thats probably bc im having a real hard time getting kills that way

[wicked onyx]

Even better. I need a quick throw for grenades. It takes forever

Waiting for my character to pull it out then aim where it’s going is slow and I don’t utilize grenades much because of it.

[onyx sage]

yeah, it's best used at spawn doors so you have to know, but if you do it's the best buff you can give to your team and yourself

[wicked onyx]

Went full red

[onyx sage]

nice, new chestpiece left

[wicked onyx]

Precisely, then I can focus on optimization

Is there an efficient way to level?

If so, what would you recommend to be the most efficient?

[onyx sage]

heroic or challenging, however many directives you can handle, and just do open world activities, but the best ones by far are public executions

[wicked onyx]

Noted.

[onyx sage]

try out and see, if you find yourself taking too long at a specific difficulty/directive count then lower them

[wicked onyx]

Challenging is a breeze. The directive would be the only issue

[onyx sage]

yes, it gives the most crit out of any piece if you're solo (in a group sometimes as well)

[wicked onyx]

Time to grind countdown for a better Grupo chest and hopefully get an obliterate too

[lofty bolt]

word thanks

[wicked onyx]

Solo grind is sometimes annoying

[onyx sage]

you can also use ceska + grupo instead

if you have them and don't have coyote for now

[wicked onyx]

I do like my 4pc striker

Hmm my CD is 160.5%

My CC is 39.9%. It would make more sense in trying to bump up my CC since my CD is quite high already right?

[tight robin]

I find grenades are more often useful to force an enemy out of cover (or just to move) than for actually dealing damage. E.g., when an MG enemy sets down on the ground, plopping a grenade on him will get him up and moving (instead of shooting at you) pretty quickly.

[wicked onyx]

50% CC-150.5 CD is like good right?

[onyx sage]

yes, with coyote striker obliterate you try to activate the 2nd coyote buff that gives 10% chc 10% chd, so you want to aim for 50% chc

[wicked onyx]

My thinking is correct then. I’ll drop my Grupo chest for a Ceska chest with Obliterate

That should be the icing on top!

[tight robin]

I run Challenging (because I play around with a lot of weird, sub-optimal loadouts) with Ammo Hoarders, Fragile Armor and Ragers. So long as you're not using high-RPM weapons, Ammo Hoarders is fine. The other two don't really affect you much at all except to help teach you not to take damage and essentially increase the difficulty level slightly (not nearly as much as Challenging to Heroic, though). So three directives is easy enough. Many people are comfortable without the mini-map, too, and turn on Fog of War.

[onyx sage]

that's only for now when you don't have enough chc from the watch (10%). if you do, you would go back to grupo

[wicked onyx]

Gotcha!

[hexed steppe]

Still worth pushing close to 60 even with coyote.

Not always gonna have mid

[wicked onyx]

Yeah pushing 60 is my aim

But with everything atm I can’t push 60

[hexed steppe]

Understandable 👍

[wicked onyx]

But if I can maintain a 60-160 something ratio then that’s pretty optimal for me!

But that’s later on when I level up in SHD

[onyx sage]

with striker most of the time you'll get the mid buff, second most of the time you'll get the long buff with 25% chc tbh

very fragile with full red striker so you wouldn't push close

[hexed steppe]

Rushers gonna rush though 😅

[onyx sage]

yeah but that's not that common

[hexed steppe]

Still better higher. You do hear beepbeepbeep quite a bit

And short buff is really strong with good crit chance

[onyx sage]

ig i also should say i speak from my own experience, but i try to take good positions depending on the build as well. as striker i try to play mid to long range but if the occasional drone or rusher comes my way, sure my damage goes down a bit, but that's not the main portion of my damage

if you do play short range, that would just be a different build entirely, and of course there are builds that would rather use the close range buff

[tight robin]

The speed difference can be huge with Challenging; I just did a Public Execution in about a minute or so. If you can do them twice as fast as Heroic, that easily makes up for the 30% less XP.

[onyx sage]

you can also go hyper-specific and save 2 loadouts that just differ in crit and use them in whichever situation you like too but i'm not that specific haha

[hexed steppe]

I'm used to nego. That colors my opinion a bit. Crit is vital, so I personally push close to 60 with or without coyote. I get what you're saying , I just dont like relying on a talent that varies to make my crit.

[wicked onyx]

I really appreciate all the help my friends!!

I can finally be good at D2 for once

[buoyant perch]

nope ceska chest is still better

[hazy steeple]

It depends on your amount of CHC, especially if the person is using Elmo and its silly amount of it.
20% from it alone.

[buoyant perch]

striker with obliterate coyote max watch: ceska chest 52/173 crit chance/crit damage before coyote; groupo 48/176 or 54/164 before coyote

optimal setup is always ceska chest

[tawdry flare]

ceska helps other weapons too

10% chc > 15chd for HE weapon

[hoary atlas]

Guys can I ask something

Vigilence is that good talent on Backpack ?

[buoyant perch]

one of the best but depending on the build

[hoary atlas]

Better than Clutch ?

[buoyant perch]

clutch is crap

[tight robin]

Clutch is pretty rough to try to make work, I found.

[hoary atlas]

Yeah because I built this for Pvp/pve

[tight robin]

(And I spent a lot of time grinding out Proficiency on that pack with Perfect Clutch. Didn't really help my build at all.)

[hazy steeple]

I managed to crowbar Clutch into a Backfire build, but that is "house made of duct-tape" levels of work.

also the perfect version.

[hoary atlas]

I build Tardigrade Ceska+Gruppo+walker,Harris and co

[tawdry flare]

the thing that make backfire worse is the bleed slowness make it a dmg over time so we can mitigate it with hf

[hazy steeple]

No bleed, it was combo'd with 2pc Ceska and a Yaahl, with the watch and rolls, I hit the threshold of 93.8%.

[tawdry flare]

talking about if it was just dmg over time vs a status like bleed

[hazy steeple]

Either way, the build had no bleed effect whatsoever.
You hit the cut off point and it's just another gun.

[tawdry flare]

also should've added pause on stacks like chameleon

[hazy steeple]

For anyone curious, these are the PvE cut-off points for hazpro status:

Blind/Deaf    91
Burn    91.4
Disorient    93.8
Disrupt    95.8
Ensnare    93.8
Poison    89.2
Shock    86
Pulse    100
Napalm (cleaners)    88.9```

[tawdry flare]

honestly after ouroboros i don't think it will keep it's crown as most powerful smg with talent theoretical

[hoary atlas]

Ongoing directives is that good for raid?

[tawdry flare]

i don't see it used much in raids tbf

[hoary atlas]

What about legendary

[hazy steeple]

Div2 isn't really a "raids and legendary are the end point", most players exist at about regular Heroic.

[hoary atlas]

Ah, allright

But I have a Nemesis Sniper trying to make a Sniper build

[tawdry flare]

useful but not necessary like fi or cc

[hazy steeple]

I hate that Chameleon is technically still the winner in that race, because the game classes it as an AR for buffs even though it is literally a Vector with a big mag and weird talent.

[tawdry flare]

chameleon is a scam in the name of ar they reversed it it should have been an ar with smg rof and ar range

[hoary atlas]

Ah okay

[hoary atlas]

I have a chameleon and sometimes use Hunter fury

[tawdry flare]

right setup for chameleon

[hoary atlas]

Chest Still use Obliterate

[hazy steeple]

If your heart is set on Raids (they are fun), then I highly recommend trying Dark Hours first, it's a lot simpler and just requires a high DPS build.
There's one in the 📌 pinned-message > spreadsheet > builds called "Standard Red DPS".

[hoary atlas]

Well I hope it's works

The spreadsheet also has Iron Horse build ?

[hazy steeple]

All the builds in the spreadsheet are fully updated to the current patch where it was needed. They all work on Heroic at least as well.

[tawdry flare]

yeah

[hoary atlas]

So Legendary Build still wip ?

[hoary atlas]

I actually tried Make 2 Build for Iron Horse and Dark hours

I mean 1 Build each

[tawdry flare]

no just used the focus striker/nego or fi or eclipse cc foam all tried tested builds

focused nego haven't changed like for 2 years

still very good for legendary solo clear

[hoary atlas]

Ah alright

[vestal ibex]

Oh man you wanna know about OD healer?

[buoyant perch]

beginner lego build is drone turret in a group, it gives you survivability while let you familiarize with the map and spawn points and enemies pattern

[tawdry flare]

it is a thing than sure maybe opportunistic 4pcs od with repair skill and 1 pcs alps

[tawdry flare]

my guess

[vestal ibex]

Empathic, Acosta go, yellow OD, repair skill, haste.

[tawdry flare]

mhhh acosta over used when

[vestal ibex]

For oc Achilles pulse on the back to back for boss 4 IH faraday.

[tawdry flare]

okk

[bronze hound]

I've seen some weird ways to one shot buddy and lucy

[vestal ibex]

It's the best use of the team comp. 2 tanks, stagger and key, then 4 headhunters, and the two different healers.

[vestal ibex]

There are tons of ways.

[bronze hound]

I know

[vestal ibex]

Most pubs just BLB but I think speeds they just all pull and DCH because they don't have to prep, it's just enough damage with enough people.

[tawdry flare]

dch is amazing

[next parrot]

Whats the backpack with perfect creeping death?

the brand set i mean

[tight robin]

The Courier, Habsburg Guard.

[tough linden]

anyone can share Determined one shot build?

[patent fossil]

There's a few different options for building it, easiest is probably 4pc hotshot, Chainkiller chest, airaldi vigilance backpack, white death with Determined.

[unreal fiber]

question, so to avoid a glass canon build. What is a good way to focus in regards to main cores? how many red blues? Not going skill build, mainly LMG or AR atm

[vestal ibex]

Not sure if you're aware but there is a talent called glass cannon so we typically call builds with no armor cores red builds. As for your question. Put on as many blue cores as you need but it's going to hinder your ability to kill things and the armor trade off might not actually improve your overall survivability, just give a buffer to the floor.

You can check out the pinned messages for a spread sheet with tons of builds in the build hub.

[unreal fiber]

Thanks for the advice, appreciate it! Will look in to the spread sheet and will look over the cores! Also I think I use the petrovs now "the sacrifice" which has glass canon 😛

[urban latch]

If your running the talent glass cannon then your commiting to damage. Putting on any blue cores with glass cannon is just a net waste. If you want more survivability than you get with glass cannon start by just running another chest talent. If you feel like you need more survivability after that then you can start going blue cores

[tough linden]

headshot dmg above 150% is waste?

[tawdry flare]

i would advise to run unbreakable with all red and armour on kill

[tough linden]

i mean is it capped?

[tawdry flare]

it is compulsory for hh to reach max cap

[tawdry flare]

no no cap on hsd

[tough linden]

Which wepon whould be best for determined build?

i mean which MR

[tawdry flare]

white death

defacto best choice

for determined

[tough linden]

cool

[tawdry flare]

razor911

[unreal fiber]

Is jeffersons best way to farm cayotes ? on what difficulty?

[tawdry flare]

best way challenging/heroic cd with mask as targetted loot

[unreal fiber]

cd? yeah forgot about target loot. Thanks

[tawdry flare]

countdown

[unreal fiber]

Ahh, so thats the best. Thanks 😄 Now I'm on track!

[tight robin]

How do you set targeted loot in Countdown? I didn't notice that setting anywhere.

[tough linden]

what changes i could make it to better?

Instead of Bloodsucker what should i go for?

[heady ember]

on Map,hover over summit or countdown,than press H (i think it was H )

[tight robin]

Ah, ok. I set it in a different way in the Summit (after I get there, in the "map" screen), so I guess I'd not looked for that option. Now that I know where it is, I should be able find it. Thanks.

[heady ember]

probably theres another way,but thats how i do it before i enter a countdown or summit 🙂

[vestal ibex]

Vigi is suggested but honestly with how HH works and the concept of alpha damage, depending on the content/player scaling you can use whatever you want on the backpack. There is FAR less to a working MMR build than you think so try it out. The biggest thing to making it work will be understanding how the talents work and their corresponding icons/timers.

[livid horizon]

I tried CD for Coyotes, but ended up getting much better success in Jefferson, but its RNG at the end of the day

[wicked onyx]

Yeah this method is pretty damn solid. I ran some Control Points along the way and got up about 3-4 levels in less than 30mins

It’s efficient and actually fun. For me at least.

[glossy scarab]

golden bullet is a really good time to farm shd levels. it makes clearing activities and missions go by pretty fast

[wicked onyx]

Oh yeah I remember the golden bullet.

When is that again?

[glossy scarab]

it should be now

i thought

[wicked onyx]

Oh that’s amazing. Time to put Countdown farm on hold and spend a handful of hours leveling up!

The goal is SHD level 280-300

[glossy scarab]

yeah go see if you can activate the golden bullet

[wicked onyx]

I’m not home atm so I can’t unfortunately.

[glossy scarab]

oh ok

i'll check in a little while

[tight robin]

It is now. I activated it a few minutes ago.

[glossy scarab]

thanks!

[wicked onyx]

Awesome! I’m grinding hardcore today

[livid horizon]

careful...

[wicked onyx]

About what?

[livid horizon]

YOLO

[tight robin]

What's the new Hunter's Fury meta build? I am hearing that people aren't using Intimidate any more.

[patent fossil]

If you're not doing the Headhunter variant then probably obliterate. Personally I think intimidate still works ok with memento, it's just not quite as strong as it used to be.

[tawdry flare]

the stacking got buffed but as doond as they go it is back 2 square 1

[hazy steeple]

Yep, Obliterate and Memento is pretty great, although Spotter also works.

[glossy scarab]

thats why you need to use bloodsucker. adrenaline rush doesnt last long enough for you to reach full stacks

[patent fossil]

Yeah, so it has a higher max buff but lower uptime, so value depends a lot on how you manage maintaining the bonus armour

[glossy scarab]

i have no problems at all while running a mission or CP and not losing my intimidate the whole time

[hazy steeple]

The main issue with Intimidate now is that it basically instanlty vanishes, meaning it's sort of awful.

and it was the only good (?) way to proc Ad Rush, so that's also gone.

[hexed steppe]

I've noticed quit a few mention using intimidate with memento succesfully

[tawdry flare]

have tried it is good but need a bit of micromanaging

[hazy steeple]

Sure it can probably still be used, but you can also complete the game with many things, it's just no longer in the "meta".

I still use a p416, it still functions in Heroic.

[hexed steppe]

yeah definitly not meta

[livid horizon]

wrong, it vanishes if you don't have a decent way of maintaining bonus armour

[hazy steeple]

Yes that would be the "basically" part.

Since enemies like to sprint apart as soon as they hear a loud noise, kind of like cockroaches if you turn on a light.

[livid horizon]

Memento proc Intimidate just fine

[glossy scarab]

bloodsucker is the best for me

[livid horizon]

I wouldn't use that cos I prefer the extra armour core and damage memento gives for a CQC build

[hazy steeple]

How long is the proc up for?

without collecting trophies with Memento.

[livid horizon]

as long as you keep collecting trophies. which is all the time enemies are there

im constantly picking them up

[glossy scarab]

yea memento has those perks of course

[livid horizon]

stronger shield too

[livid horizon]

isn't memento bonus armour ten seconds

[glossy scarab]

yeah i just like the way bloodsucker stacks 10x so i almost never get all my bonus armor shot off, which happens sometimes with memento

[tawdry flare]

same with bloodsucker

[hazy steeple]

Just want to know this.

[hexed steppe]

10 seconds

longer than it takes to fully proc intimidate

[livid horizon]

Trust me, It's a build I run a lot (HF, Memento/Intimidate, 4 blues). It's one of the strongest Heroic builds in the game. Works really well

[hazy steeple]

Yep, that's what I meant by this.
I'm sure the build works fine, but it's just not "meta" anymore and only changing the Talent will change that.

[livid horizon]

Its totally meta

One of the best builds in the game

makes Heroic easy

I often use it If I just want to get something done and cannot be bothered with the risk of dying

[tawdry flare]

really good build i use it from time to time with enforcer

[livid horizon]

practically god mode

[tight robin]

I will switch from Matador (Ad Rush) to Memento and see how that works out for me.

[livid horizon]

Not sure why you're laughing. It's honestly one of the best builds. No sarcasm @hazy steeple

[bronze hound]

4 blues? lol

[livid horizon]

That's exactly what I said until I tried it

[tight robin]

Why so much blue? I did run a yellow core on one HF item before I switched to Memento (which now provides that), for better shield survivability, but I wasn't particularly feeling the need for more than that, though I've not used it much lately.

[livid horizon]

Then I realised the godlyy amount of bonus armour given by those blues and the stupidly tanky shield.

Damage isn't a problem.

[bronze hound]

does memento really keep up the bonus armour that well? or would a LE be better?

[tawdry flare]

memento

[bronze hound]

?

[tawdry flare]

memento better for intimidate solo and in group

cause both rely on kill and memento has infinite stacking

[bronze hound]

so does liquid engineer

[tawdry flare]

le has limit

[bronze hound]

its kinda weird last i checked

because youll still get the insane bonus armour per kill

[tawdry flare]

max stacks

[bronze hound]

you still get the armour after kills when stacks at max

[tawdry flare]

also dmg buff

and shield health 30% multiplicative health

[bronze hound]

i still think LE has a better uptime for harder content

[tawdry flare]

have you tried memento instead if le with intimidate?

[bronze hound]

i havent

[bronze hound]

i mostly run hh lol

[bronze hound]

what is this supposed to be relevant to

[flint wave]

White tusk

while wearing white tusk outfit

[bronze hound]

ok?

[tawdry flare]

dying in style

look at the pose

[bronze hound]

im failing to see the relevancy

[flint wave]

This is the build advice you came for

[tawdry flare]

ok build advice for white tusk npcs

should be red

[tight robin]

Bonus armor, not regular armor?

[livid horizon]

Yea the amount when you pick up a couple of trophies is a lot

[tight robin]

What is Liquid Engineer? And as compared to Memento, how's the uptime when some Striker dude is right behind you stealing your kills?

[flint wave]

can't steal kills if the enemies are being one shotted

[bronze hound]

Named belstone backpack with perfect bloodsucker (dz exclusive)

[tight robin]

So, I just did a two-player Heroic Air & Space Museum with the Memento loadout, and it was totally rocking; I was one-shotting enemies left and right. And then I realised, it's not the the build...I'm glowing gold....

[bronze hound]

Hhf doesn't scale well with 4 players

[tawdry flare]

it does

[bronze hound]

I always had issues one shotting elites without max stacks

[tawdry flare]

scales upto legendary 2 players

[flint wave]

Shotgun headshotting is weird

[tawdry flare]

just use regulus and swap you are at max stack for your shotgun

[tight robin]

Oh, right, because the trophies give a %. So can you run that build without a shield?
Oh, and what's the second skill most people are using? I was trying out repair hive, but I was too busy to notice if it healed my shield as well as my armour. I think that's only the repair chem that does that, right?

[bronze hound]

And how do you use regulus to one shot first kill

[tawdry flare]

use it on a red swap to m870 already at full

[bronze hound]

So assuming there's a red

[blissful rampart]

repair hive and heal chem both heal the shield as well.

[tawdry flare]

also it take 5 shot to kill legendary elite solo with vigilance and d & h bagpack

[livid horizon]

You wouldn't use this as you need ceska for crit, especially since this build uses Scorpio

[cyan drift]

Welp, it was a good vacation

[bronze hound]

Then why in gods name we talking about memento?

[tawdry flare]

ceska intimidate

[livid horizon]

you would always run a shield with thhis build

[blissful rampart]

also even with memento, still cant face tank heroic enemies they deal too much damage and shredd your body

[bronze hound]

Bloodsucker is a backpack talent

[livid horizon]

this - a lot of people still think that intimidate is dead after the 'nerf', but its not the case

[tawdry flare]

not everyone is roterblitz 99% accuracy

[bronze hound]

Skill issue

[tawdry flare]

bruh have you watched the guy play

[livid horizon]

I see you write this a lot - care to put your skills to the test

[blissful rampart]

intimidate was never dead but way weaker and kinda meh after the nerf (even with memento)

[tawdry flare]

he cleared summit 1-100 legendary in 4hrs and 40-50 mins solo

[livid horizon]

not true

[bronze hound]

Lol I used to chainkill with sniper in pvp

[tawdry flare]

her sniping skills are good

[bronze hound]

Azur is it appropriate for me to post a clip of my play here or would that be advertism

[livid horizon]

Lets run a mission together - see who gets most damage/kills at the end. We can even run identical builds

[bronze hound]

That's not accuracy

[tawdry flare]

also no determined

[bronze hound]

Hate to break it to ya lol

@blissful rampart am I allowed to post a gameplay clip here or no

[tawdry flare]

no

[bronze hound]

Truly unfortunate

[blissful rampart]

yea sadly no

[bronze hound]

@livid horizon I'll dm it to you

[tawdry flare]

i will dm you both with benchmark clip

[bronze hound]

You didn't

[hazy steeple]

It's been 2 minutes, give them a sec.

[tawdry flare]

both have to do Lincoln memorial challenging with regulus or d50 non determined

[slate wedge]

did it get buffed since?

[blissful rampart]

no

[slate wedge]

because it used to be my favourite chest talent

now it is only good in DZ and in Solo missions

[blissful rampart]

for automatics, obliterate is stronger and for shottys HH is stronger (then intimidate)

intimidate is even weaker for pvp because its a ramping talent and fully drops on armor loss

[hazy steeple]

Yes exactly, weaker but still usable if you really push it.
It's certainly not "one of the best builds in the game".

[livid horizon]

it is tho

and the more you keep saying it the more it shows you don't use it and don't know about the game

[glossy scarab]

i can see how certain players would say that

[blissful rampart]

well HF is one of the best builds in the game, its just that intimidate doesnt make that cut for its talent

[hazy steeple]

Yeah that's what I meant, thanks for clarifying

[livid horizon]

intimidate plus memento is top tier. trust.

i can show you gameplay next time im online

im not making this up

[blissful rampart]

i mean no need lol

[livid horizon]

its OP

[blissful rampart]

using other talent is more OP

[livid horizon]

which talent?

obliterate?

Doesnt work well with scorpio at all

[hazy steeple]

The little secret about div2 that we don't like to admit is that pretty much anything can work well in Heroic with enough time and practice.

[blissful rampart]

like no need to re-test something that has been tested to death and has not changed lol but you do you

[bronze hound]

the other little secret is no build will fix a skill issue

[hazy steeple]

Yes that is the "practice" part. Are my messages only half coming through today?

[tawdry flare]

@livid horizon @bronze hound competition @livid horizon wins by default

[blissful rampart]

HH for shottys but outside of HH, no real good talent for shottys but smgs/ ARs have obliterate option

[bronze hound]

no i just got here

[livid horizon]

have you used it?

[blissful rampart]

yes

[hazy steeple]

@tawdry flare Don't start fights, only warning.

[bronze hound]

this ^

[livid horizon]

cos I dont know how you can say that if you have, its basically cheat mode for heroic content

[tight robin]

So remind me again: what talent do we use instead of Intimidate to get a meta-level build?

[bronze hound]

how about backpack wise

[blissful rampart]

depends on weapon and build

[tawdry flare]

obli for smg for shotgun except pummel or fast hands i cant think of anything

[livid horizon]

HH is a very risky build that can get you killed easily if you aren't playing well. The intimidate/memento/scorpio build is the opposite of that, its actually hard to die if you're competent.

[blissful rampart]

assuming HF build
if SMG go obliterate + wicked or memento
if shotty go HH + wicked still good can also do intimidate + memento but weaker option

pummel or fast hands are weapon talents not chest talents FYI .

[bronze hound]

wait why wicked

[blissful rampart]

HF procs it

[livid horizon]

weaker is just plain wrong Azer, sorry pal. but its stronger in many ways, especially in survivability

[bronze hound]

u rite

[bronze hound]

intimidate doesnt add survivability

[blissful rampart]

memento does

[livid horizon]

I will show a vid of it when i can, just to show how easy stuff is with it

[bronze hound]

yeah but thats not a chest piece lol

[livid horizon]

im talking aboout the combo of HF/ntimidate/memento/scorpio

[tight robin]

How do you proc the Wicked with an SMG?

[hazy steeple]

Make sure you PM it to people, not post it here.

[blissful rampart]

HF set procs it @tight robin

[livid horizon]

PM?

[hazy steeple]

PM, DM, IM, tape it to a brick and throw it, whatever.

[tight robin]

Ah, because the HF disorient counts as a status effect? Brilliant!

[blissful rampart]

correct

[hazy steeple]

It's actually very useful for GE's that have that as a requirement, and the only time I use the backpack of HF.

[livid horizon]

best thing to do is to try that build for yourself.

[tawdry flare]

@blissful rampart best gearset with sleigher ?

[bronze hound]

future initiative

[tawdry flare]

i was thinking true patriot

[bronze hound]

no

[tight robin]

So better to go with Perfectly Wicked on Golan, or regular Wicked with something that buffs crit damage or whatever?

[bronze hound]

ongoing directive

imo id go chainkiller and gift with a shotgun tbh

[livid horizon]

great gearset

[blissful rampart]

Rigger, since they are both trash 🤣

[livid horizon]

lol

[blissful rampart]

heheh

[blissful rampart]

no perfect wicked is bad since its on a bad brand. regulard wicked is much better

on the pinned spreadsheet, theres a great HF build guide, give it a look.

@livid horizon fun fact, the new gear set coming is worse then Rigger 🤣, assuming it gets no changes and releases how it was on PTS.

[bronze hound]

id disagree

because it does something

[blissful rampart]

i mean rigger also does something, just worse then other options

with new gear sets there are 2 ways to build it.
go full damage for flame turret, but its quite a bit less damage then fire EP.
go full haste for flame turret CC style but LONG AF cooldown still, but then also way weaker then CC EP., and CC HW

both have issue of needing to use flame turret which is still super weak, and not getting changes.

[hazy steeple]

The best thing about Rigger is that you can't name a loadout ingame after it.

[tight robin]

Hm. But sadly, my Grupo pack is kinda crap. No way to put Wicked on it without losing 12% CHD from my build.

[blissful rampart]

time to farm 😛

[bronze hound]

i hope they decrease the cooldown by 7% and then add enemy specific targetting, while also increasing the duration by 22.5% and damage by 13%

oh and range by 5% forgot about that

[blissful rampart]

still would be bad tbh.

needs to reduce cooldown by like 50% lol if not more

[tight robin]

Obliterate should give you something with a shotgun, too, right? Even if not as good as an SMG? For a shotgun, doesn't each pellet count as a separate shot for crit determination? (I'm just not wanting to farm and carry two chest pieces, but use it for shotgun Proficiency grinding when I don't need full power.)

[slate wedge]

dz lamdmarks with a memento/intimidare HF build with 3 blue cores, 4 reds and one yellow are so easy

[onyx sage]

no shotgun pellets do not each stack obliterate

[bronze hound]

ok

^

[shell sun]

@lunar kindle here is the build i was referring to earlier

this one slaps with St. Elmo's

[bronze hound]

why grupo not ceska

[shell sun]

oh yeah, you also Theory

[bronze hound]

wait i think weve had this convo before

[tight robin]

Aw, damn. So I kinda need to stick with Intimidate if I want it to work with SMG and Shotgun.

[livid horizon]

cos st elmos

[bronze hound]

cant you still use ceska with it

[livid horizon]

crit damage is low

[shell sun]

cuz +15CHD

[tight robin]

I have a Ceska chest right now, and no Ceska pack.

[livid horizon]

no need - you'll cap out

[bronze hound]

how much chc does the gun have? 20?

[livid horizon]

it has a 20% mod

[shell sun]

^ ^

[tight robin]

Oh, right! I forgot I get a big pile of CHC when switching to an SMG.

[bronze hound]

oh yeah youll cap out if you use coyote

[livid horizon]

Coyote is fine

[bronze hound]

i never said it wasnt

[livid horizon]

just dump every single second attribute to crit dmg

[shell sun]

im right at 60 CHC now

[livid horizon]

ok - thats wrong

[bronze hound]

why are you right at 60 with coyotes

[livid horizon]

this

[bronze hound]

youll have over 60 if coyote buff

[livid horizon]

aim for 52-54 with Coyote

[blissful rampart]

depends

[shell sun]

wait, doesnt CHC cap at 60.....

[livid horizon]

yes

[shell sun]

then why would i waste it on anything

[livid horizon]

waste?

[patent elm]

Even with elmos ceska is still better than grupo

[blissful rampart]

if you constalty cqb then you build for coyotes short buff (so +25 chd and need 60 chc without coyotes buff) otherwise yea build for coyotes mid buff and be 50-55chc before coyotes buff

[livid horizon]

you're not always at 60 - depends on range - i prefer more crits than non crits at ALL ranges

[bronze hound]

20 gun + 10 watch + 2 attributes (20) + ceska = 60, if you use coyotes the buff is entirely wasted

[tight robin]

So two Sokolov, which I have, would do the trick too.

[livid horizon]

why you using Ceska? Grupo peeps

[patent elm]

2 attribute are 12

[bronze hound]

im referring to my old statement about how coyotes would make you top over if you use ceska lol

[shell sun]

whats ceska's attribute

[bronze hound]

wait shit im dumb lol

you wont cap over then

[blissful rampart]

iirc if using elmo then go grupo coyotes, cause elmo doesnt need ceska (double checking though)

[hexed steppe]

If its elmo striker, ceska still potentials higher chd with similar chc over grupo. Like 9% more chd

[bronze hound]

20 + 10 + 12 + 10 = 42

[flint wave]

man I wish we had 10% chc mods

[bronze hound]

so why grupo over ceska

[glossy scarab]

ceska can either give you 52% chc or 58% chc. depending on in you have chc rolls on your strikers gear. grupo will get you 54%

[bronze hound]

52 with coyotes is good imo

[glossy scarab]

yeah

[bronze hound]

so id go ceska

[livid horizon]

Need to check my build tbh, but main thing is to get to 52-55 chc, then stack EVERYTHING else into crit dmg

[bronze hound]

rather than grupo

[patent elm]

20 elmo 10 watch 12 attributes 10 ceska is 52 yes you're over 60 with Coyotes mid buff but it's still higher crit dmg than using grupo

[livid horizon]

You should be in the range of 170 crit damage with strikers

[tawdry flare]

depends totally but i would go ceska it helps backup gun if it is not an smg

[bronze hound]

this

[glossy scarab]

2% over cap doesnt mean shit

[livid horizon]

yep, those numbers sound about right

[patent elm]

Only reason to not run ceska is if you get naturally above 55% chc

[flint wave]

Negotiators dilemma only

[patent elm]

Which never happens on non high end non nego builds

[bronze hound]

3 mods of 12 plus watch of 20 + base of 50 + six attributes (72) = 178 if im not dumb with my math

[tawdry flare]

that's what i think people only think of main weapon you have secondary weapons too ceska benifits all

[hexed steppe]

Yeah run the numbers. I had this same discussion where I was the one suggesting grupo. Ceska has the edge tho by leaving more attribute space and only needing chc rolls on the coyote and high end. All else chd

[shell sun]

this is why i hate builds

[bronze hound]

what

[shell sun]

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to GD confusing

[bronze hound]

its not confusing

[flint wave]

on a high end I prefer 1 ceska 1 Grupo 1 fenris anyways

[livid horizon]

it really isnt - its just basic math

[bronze hound]

its just math

[bronze hound]

on high end i prefer not running it

[shell sun]

roll this attribute, save these for others.... use this piece here

[patent elm]

On high end, you wouldn't run ceska cause you havr too much crit

[bronze hound]

yes you would

[hexed steppe]

That's why the spreadsheet exists. Just match the pictures and you're good 🤣

[patent elm]

Outside of specific weapon choices like idk an 1886

[bronze hound]

1 ceska, coyote, 1 grupo, fp, cg, and something else i cant remember

fenris i think

[flint wave]

there's no triple providence in this build

[shell sun]

well ive already dumped MORE than enough into the current build

[livid horizon]

If you just follow others without working out what gives more stats yourself then it will be confusing. Once you u derstand it's simple.

[shell sun]

but jesus

[blissful rampart]

this ^^ just double checked too, Elmos with strikers you go coyotes + ceska

[patent elm]

Oh yea without providence then you could maybe fit ceska didn't do the math

[bronze hound]

providence isnt optimal for HE last i checked

[flint wave]

same

striker is still king

[blissful rampart]

normal high end is fox, contractors + 3 (3 prov or 3 fenris/ Pefect focus + grupo, ceska) and last slot of Coyotes or Dodge city

[bronze hound]

so i was right ty

[shell sun]

so now, find me a ceska vest, roll it as what?

[hexed steppe]

Nego wants to have a word with you out back 🤣

[patent elm]

Is contractors that important

[shell sun]

change all my strikers to what

[bronze hound]

damage to armour

[patent elm]

I thought contractors is the last one you'd fit in

[flint wave]

nego is my legendary king

[blissful rampart]

its higher dps, so if you care about that then yes. (for high end builds)

[bronze hound]

i normally run rifle with FP to make use of the bsb

[shell sun]

so let me see if i get this right..... all my striker gear should be CHD? as the attrib

[bronze hound]

for elmo yes

[blissful rampart]

this is the standard high end dps setup (forgot about perfect focus, added that in) ^^

[bronze hound]

all you need is chc on a ceska vest, and coyotes

i run rifle on my OD build

with PE

[livid horizon]

Striker does most damage when stacked up. But there's a place for High-end builds for sure. That instant damage without needing stacks is really good still. Especially for RAIDS and open worlds

[bronze hound]

less-so for raids imo

either you have the room to stack or you dont need to stack

thats my argument for striker v HE

[shell sun]

and the gear mods? CHD?

[livid horizon]

DH first boss - enemies trickle in, making stacks hard to maintain

[shell sun]

i dont know if i have those rolled

[bronze hound]

ignore the big guy in the centre of course

[shell sun]

okay coyotes has a CHD Mod

[bronze hound]

and the fact that during damage phase you have a perfect proc of it lmfao

[livid horizon]

depends what roll you're on

[shell sun]

but im not sure if i have any more CHD mods

[livid horizon]

but im not RAIDing that often so....

[bronze hound]

during damage phase doesnt matter, perfect proc

[livid horizon]

true

[bronze hound]

so i say through all of DH that striker is better than HE

the only part of both raids that would be arguable is IH 2nd and 3rd

[vestal ibex]

Nug you do know you can stack on the boxes you have to turret down at the start of the fight? Ez to maintain afterwards.

[bronze hound]

but since youre travelling as a group it doesnt matter since youre doing lots of damage to begin with

[shell sun]

okay so what Gear mod?

[bronze hound]

and for 2nd boss youre doing adequate damage without stacks

[livid horizon]

did NOT know that, thanks

[tulip charm]

I would still use he over striker as you can also use that for ih aswell

[bronze hound]

also works against walls of razorback

[tulip charm]

if you're new

[bronze hound]

HE is harder to put together than striker tho lol

so id say its less friendly for new players

[livid horizon]

Striker does how much more damage than HE at full stacks? Assuming with and without chest?

[bronze hound]

idk the exacts but i hit around 1.2 mil per shot

[vestal ibex]

Striker/HE is preference really. You'll be able to kill anything with a proper build regardless.

[bronze hound]

1.24 i think

[bronze hound]

thats my argument. if youll be able to kill anything with a proper build, i wanna kill faster when im doing sustained to a high health enemy

also the reason i run striker chest

[flint wave]

💀

[bronze hound]

with moderate buffs im hitting 1.7 per shot

[vestal ibex]

Yeah, it really depends on the raid tho. People doing one shots? Would rather have HE on in IH. In DH I typically run strikers because I can get stacks.

[bronze hound]

if people are one shotting it doesnt matter

run rigger for all that matters

[vestal ibex]

wat? Without chest I get 1.3 and about 1.7 with team buffs....

[bronze hound]

send pic of build

[vestal ibex]

I can send cad or metal nest? I'm at work.

[bronze hound]

what

not that kind of build smfh

[vestal ibex]

It's just striker ceska chest oblit with grupo mask famas strained.

[bronze hound]

oh im not using strained

im using fast hands

[tawdry flare]

she's talking about striker chest

[vestal ibex]

How send pic and AT WORK

[bronze hound]

if i swapped to strained i could get more damage yeah

[vestal ibex]

I know which should I figured would be more damage.

[bronze hound]

ill check my numbers when i get home

are you counting health damage or

[tawdry flare]

ofc health dmg

[bronze hound]

im not counting health damage lol

[tawdry flare]

1.4 mil to armour with striker not possible with ceska obli solo

[bronze hound]

yeah that sounded a bit high to me

[tawdry flare]

you are using striker shield also it sways the number

[livid horizon]

and for HE build? about 900k per shot?

[bronze hound]

yeah so he shouldnt have higher than me

[livid horizon]

or we talking headshots?

[bronze hound]

hence the confusion

[tawdry flare]

ofc

[bronze hound]

well i hit majority of my hits as headshots so lol

i also run 8x

[tawdry flare]

striker shield gives buff base off number of opponents so not consistent numbers but it will do more

[bronze hound]

yeah so how is soul hitting the same numbers without striker chest 🤔

[tawdry flare]

he said with a bunch of buffs like fi and opportunistic

[bronze hound]

1.3 with fi and opportunistic?

thats incredibly low

[vestal ibex]

I usually talk about the highest number I'll see hitting. It's what I typically use as comparison so it gauges well if I compare with the same method but it's all different if we are comparing dissimilar methods.

[livid horizon]

lol

challenge when?

[bronze hound]

if youre counting health damage that doesnt really count since most enemies arent 99% health

[livid horizon]

Skill Issue

[tawdry flare]

chungas

[bronze hound]

i said most

[tawdry flare]

dogs mini fucker

[bronze hound]

i said most ya blunderface

[tawdry flare]

evey skill enemy use

[bronze hound]

did you replace your head with a lemon

[tawdry flare]

blunder face lmao

[vestal ibex]

Meh it's all TTK that matters anyway. If your TTK isn't fast enough on boomer adds will just over run you.

[shell sun]

i cant build Ceska so, i guess off to Summit to farm it

[tawdry flare]

with a 🦊

[bronze hound]

then you should be screaming for no reason at 3am

[vestal ibex]

You dont?

[bronze hound]

who said i dont

[tawdry flare]

you don't?

[bronze hound]

literally who said this

[livid horizon]

thats them making loooooove

[tawdry flare]

i am a very lazy fox

[bronze hound]

except its not

they very literally scream for no reason at 3am

[livid horizon]

you went to find thm to see for yourself?

[bronze hound]

i know a lot about foxes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qgl06ZxfUo0 perfect example

[bronze hound]

ive never actually heard a fox scream irl but ive met one

anywyas this isnt build help anymore lol

[tawdry flare]

you skewed it lol

[vestal ibex]

Help me build a fox

[tawdry flare]

anyway back 2 builds

[urban latch]

So much talk of per shot damage without ever saying what gun your using....

[tawdry flare]

famas see above lol

[bronze hound]

me? fh famas

[shell sun]

hows this?

[tawdry flare]

use foxe's prayer

[tawdry flare]

low chc

[shell sun]

well, i cant craft Ceska, i dont have one

so thats gonna have to do

[tawdry flare]

use mods than

1 mod chc

[shell sun]

NOW you answer me about mods

[bronze hound]

drop chd to up chc

[vestal ibex]

You are my gun papi

[livid horizon]

Sleigher

[shell sun]

i only asked about mods 7 times

[bronze hound]

sleigher does nemesis damage now

[tawdry flare]

Raucey gun nice with 1500 ROF and 500000 base dmg

[bronze hound]

imagine

[tawdry flare]

sleigher is meta for vetrans

[urban latch]

Are you running coyotes and assuming you'll have the mid buff? If your over 120% chd then you want to be at 60% chc, so adjust your mods/attribute rolls accordingly

[shell sun]

i WAS at 60 CHC, till i was told to flip all my attributes to CHD

[bronze hound]

you dont want to be at 60chc if youre running coyote

[blissful rampart]

umm depends

[bronze hound]

assuming midbuff*

[blissful rampart]

then yes

[livid horizon]

52-55 chc with Coyotes on, then rest into crit dmg

[tawdry flare]

on ar too much fluctuations

[bronze hound]

on ar im gaming

[tawdry flare]

he put 1 chc mod 54 chc is nice without coyote mid

[shell sun]

well im still on Grupo also, so i gotta go farm a matching ceska

[tawdry flare]

groupo will suffice

[urban latch]

If your running elmos with max chc from the watch, and chc on your two HE pieces, you should be sitting at 42 chc without giving up CHD on any strikers attributes or gear mods. With 1p ceska that will put you at 52%, which is a solid number to be at with coyotes mid buff and CHD everywhere else on gear mods and attributes

Right now your running grupo and 1 chc mod/attribute which is fine, but slightly unoptimized

[shell sun]

two HE pieces?

[bronze hound]

high end

[shell sun]

oh high end

[urban latch]

Two non-strikers sorry

Technically I'm grouping coyotes into that

[shell sun]

okay, i see why its not matching, i re-rolled the grupo vest talent, the attrib is handling

[vestal ibex]

rip

[bronze hound]

f

[vestal ibex]

Get to farming yo

[shell sun]

anyways, it works for me, fuck it, im not looking for a perfect setup

it matches CLOSE enough

[vestal ibex]

Pick your god now. Rngesus or Lootficer

[shell sun]

id rather focus on expertise and

[tawdry flare]

we have rngesus on server lootcifer better

[flint wave]

That handling will be good for elmo high end

[vestal ibex]

Sick. Gonna run like 20 WONY then?

[flint wave]

Atleast

[tawdry flare]

handling on Except for the gear bonus

[bronze hound]

expertise over a better vest? yikes

[flint wave]

handling in a crit build where you naturally have 403% crit chance yes

[bronze hound]

imagine having an expertise 23 gun and a grupo vest with handling on it

[tawdry flare]

try with backfire negotiators build

[bronze hound]

every shot crits 4 times

[tawdry flare]

on smg maybe better but for everything else no

[bronze hound]

lmao

[tawdry flare]

i am not wrong

[bronze hound]

we need an exotic that just says "removes the critical hit chance cap"

[flint wave]

That should've been st elmos fr

[bronze hound]

definitely not

[flint wave]

it would be fitting with that 20% chc mod

[bronze hound]

an smg with a 20% crit chance mod

[tawdry flare]

smg with attachment can have 36chc better to go 30 with 5% handling mod 10 ceska 10 watch 1 roll crit

[bronze hound]

but like a tommy gun

so you have an absolutely shit weapon but it can crit twice per shot

[tawdry flare]

maybe raises the crit chance cap to 80

[bronze hound]

eh

bad idea

[tawdry flare]

why except for the fact getting that high crit is insane

[bronze hound]

im scared of clutch builds making a return (for the worse)

@tawdry flare did you hear my exotic ceska chest idea

i cant remember if i told you or someone else

[flint wave]

Exotics with a brandset bonus?

[tawdry flare]

yeah

[livid horizon]

Exotics don't have a brand

[bronze hound]

shit not exotic named my bad

[tawdry flare]

removing cap is bad tbh just raise it to 70 or 80

[bronze hound]

brain died for a moment

no an exotic that removes the cap when youre using it