lore-discussion

[limber ridge]

He does Say short answer so there's more to it

[ripe berry]

hi

[unkempt sleet]

Yea, more to it that we dont know yet

so like thats vague again

[tiny verge]

I've kinda just

dropped all headcanons and theories that I had

[ripe berry]

(my wording was intentional since I literally use the FNaF Short Stories in the same exact way where anything that doesn't contradict the games still occurs)

[tiny verge]

I don't think there's enough information anymore to give solid concrete answers

so I've just stopped acting like I know anything about the lore now

[limber ridge]

What If the statement just means "AS and other media don't fit 1:1 we made it very different cuz mayak is so cool"

And it's just absolutely nothing new

It was known/thought of from before that obviously you can't make it all fit together linearly

[unkempt sleet]

mayak beam restructuring the timeline with every storm

truly this must be the canon answer

[ripe berry]

this likely means the movie is also only semi-canon

[limber ridge]

Peak

[limber ridge]

Like, you can't make it all work without anything like perspectives, time loops or whatever else

[ripe berry]

or will be when it releases

at this point the only question is how the books work with this
are they semi-canon too or does "Canon, but not in a way you think" mean something else

[ripe berry]

now that I think about it
semi-canon might be what Nikita means aswell

[limber ridge]

Yeah

Especially with the "no multiverse" claim

Then again just different media is relatively

[ripe berry]

how else do you make this fit with Theodore having built a park in Germany in the books

[limber ridge]

Different from multiverse

[ripe berry]

no real-world countries (Germany is explicitly in the books)
HN is set Nowhere (Raven Brooks is said to be in Missouri in the books)

[limber ridge]

Am i misunderstanding what semi canon means, i always took it as "some events happen but not 1:1 with others"

So If that's correct then canon but not in a way you think would really just mean this.

[ripe berry]

yeah that sounds about right

it still occurs
just not 1:1 with what's seen on-screen or in the books

[limber ridge]

You can make the timeline by mixing up stuff

Or just thinking of one specific continuity

And continuity doesn't have to mean different universes with other steps either

[ripe berry]

just like how the broad strokes of the FNaF Mimic story still occur in SotM, but obviously not 1:1 with the original book version

[limber ridge]

Just like, how AS works with all its eps(is supposed to at least)

[dense raven]

https://tenor.com/view/skeleton-burning-hell-pain-gif-17379863

[limber ridge]

Books work with books.
But not with other mediums

[tiny verge]

didn't one of the books state they were in the US or something..? yeah that doesn't work for all the medias especially now that HN3 is heavily based off of a Russian town Nikita grew up in (or something along those lines)

I think that should've been the obvious sign that nothing is really set in stone

[ripe berry]

however semi-canon doesn't explain the Mayak Statemen-
it's campfire theory isn't it...

[tiny verge]

and yet I only now realize it

[ripe berry]

https://tenor.com/view/american-dad-roger-smith-clown-its-roger-its-roger-isnt-it-gif-17783426852378864017

[limber ridge]

I take it as a stylistic choice just like skin colours

[limber ridge]

Do loops not work for semi-canon?

[ripe berry]

I mean... yes and no...?
depends on how you interpret semi-canon

[tiny verge]

god I really hope there aren't time loops

I think the whole concept is just dumb

[limber ridge]

Reset day/hello Engineer

[tiny verge]

yeah

[limber ridge]

I don't like them either lol

[tiny verge]

and I already don't like them

[ripe berry]

but Nikita's aiming for a more grounded story
and Campfire Theory works within the confines of a grounded story...

[limber ridge]

I used not to

[unkempt sleet]

RD's loops are conceptually different than the whole timeline loops tbh

[limber ridge]

Rn i'm just whatever

[tiny verge]

I was basically saying that I hope they stay contained like some kind of deadly virus

away from the mainline games

and other multi-media stuff

[ripe berry]

because GN2 already establishes a grounded in science way for the Mayak to be responsible for the town's disappearance that's the key for campfire theory to occur

[limber ridge]

But then there's the AS

Which can have an out of universe explanation really

Can't it

[ripe berry]

I'm thinking of both in and out of universe explanations

in-universe AS, Books, and Games might actually be due to Campfire Story Theory

out of universe it's because the different mediums need to be different to work within that medium

[tiny verge]

I think most of this franchise's inconsistency can mostly be boiled down to out of universe explanations

[unkempt sleet]

Honestly if it's just distinction between different types of media, im fine with the campfire story theory

[tiny verge]

sometimes they may be able to make an in-universe excuse

[tiny verge]

but from what I can see, most of the time if a franchise has an inconsistent lore then doing this only makes the situation worse

[unkempt sleet]

Campfire Story Theory i dont like when it starts to distinct games from games

[tiny verge]

tbh I don't think the games do alot to contradict each other anyways

[unkempt sleet]

idk some people were acting like HN3 will just use Nikita's stuff he made and ignore anything else even if it contradicts it

so thats maybe why that worry got imprinted on me

[limber ridge]

Yeah that's what Nikita did imply

But without statements it doesn't really

[ripe berry]

yeah like-
heck, it explains why Nikita refers to the Games that way (CBNIAWYT)
the games are also technically semi-canon

[limber ridge]

Mean anything

[wanton roost]

its sad that its its own thing i hope it kind of changes

[limber ridge]

Its own thing that probably offers some lore

[ripe berry]

Nikita also implied he wants the whole story to be able to be learned from HN3 and has used CBNIAWYT (I'm not typing it out in full 100 times) to refer to HN2 aswell

[limber ridge]

Franklin, coins

[ripe berry]

(to the books, WtRB, and Movie)

[wanton roost]

oh yeah true

[unkempt sleet]

that can still be achievable while also having connections tbh

[ripe berry]

Some of which crosses between timelines (Coins exist in HN2 and HNVR, missing newspaper resembling Franklin exists in HN3)

[limber ridge]

CBNIAWYT — Hello neighbor Lore fandom's TOYSNHK

[tiny verge]

I don't think Nikita is gonna use other people's things not out of any deep reasoning, just that he isn't informed about them

but I also don't think he's gonna try to intentionally go out of his way to contradict everyone else

[ripe berry]

I think he's only going to use what exists in the game itself when referencing the thing
so like he's working from the same puzzle pieces for HN2 that we are for instance

[tiny verge]

I only think this too because he's stated before the HN3 Guest isn't the same as the HN2 Guest

because he doesn't know who the HN2 Guest is

[ripe berry]

technically thinking about it...

it doesn't mean they aren't the same

it just means he doesn't know what they had in mind for HN2

he's working with what actually exists in the games

[tiny verge]

the cartoon is going to eventually reveal who the Guest is I'm pretty sure

[ripe berry]

not what the HN2 Lore Document EGS Eyes Only™ says

[tiny verge]

but also HN3 is wanting to build up towards the Guest's reveal

and if Nikita doesn't know who the HN2 Guest is

then I'm just sayin'

they're likely not going to be the same Guest

especially because the HN3 Guest seems to be a faker even in the context of HN3

[wanton roost]

there are 2 guests so

[limber ridge]

I don't think Nikita is really trying to make his guest fit with HN2's Guest

[ripe berry]

plus, there's not really many contradictions between the games thus far outside of building designs/map details

[tiny verge]

exactly

because he doesn't know who the HN2 Guest is

[limber ridge]

Which are gameplay eitherway

[tiny verge]

therefore the HN3 Guest is just...not the same Guest

both versions have writers wanting to reveal who they are

[limber ridge]

If making sure they work together had any priority i think they would have communicated abt it

[unkempt sleet]

HN3 Guest is Aaron after being taken by the other Guest

[tiny verge]

I don't think they can force their way into making them both the same Guest (especially since again, the HN3 Guest is NOT the real Guest anyways)

I think it's funny how the HN3 "Guest" kinda feels like some kind of anti-christ though

[limber ridge]

I mean... In HN3 the real guest probably isn't even a physical being

[unkempt sleet]

symbolized by the stitched up beak because he's not in control

[ripe berry]

honestly we should try for a bit to use only HN1, HNHS, SN, HE, HN2, RBBArchives + YTBer Package, HND, HNVR, and HN3 to try to make a Hello Neighbor Timeline to see how much of the lore exists purely within the games and how much requires things outside of the game to put together

[wanton roost]

hm likely

[unkempt sleet]

did you say a game only timeline...

[ripe berry]

yes
A Games only timeline...

[tiny verge]

and here's the thing, do you expect the cartoon to make the HN2 Guest some fake version of the Guest..? like how the HN3 Guest functions like some kind of anti-christ..?
Alex made a big deal over the Guest's origins, and that this cartoon is going to be the full origin story of the Guest

[limber ridge]

Tehnically RBBA and YTBer package aren't just for the games

[ripe berry]

https://tenor.com/view/benny-benny-lego-movie-lego-movie-the-lego-movie-lego-gif-2708904522197395240

[tiny verge]

no room for interpretation

[unkempt sleet]

Yea thats me

I'm Benny in that gif truly

let me get my old games only timeline

probably outdated but eh

[limber ridge]

The writer reveal who their character is

[unkempt sleet]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1U1fS1FXlaXSx5koL46CniMBRaxmw92qJnR5s60Iu6PA/edit?usp=sharing

games only timeliiiine (probably outdated at some parts)

[ripe berry]

we now actually have reason to do Games Only or Books Only or WtRB Only Timelines

[limber ridge]

For this i don't think there's any more room for interpretation needed, especially when there are canonically multiple guests

[ripe berry]

(continuities that are semi-canon to each other but not 1:1)

[wanton roost]

one raven and one that isnt maybe

[tiny verge]

so I have to say it again, the HN3 Guest just cannot be the same as the HN2 Guest
Nikita is making a "Guest" that acts like an anti-christ would, using the imagery of "God" for his own means
and the cartoon (HN2 Guest) is going to have a full on origin story
I just don't think they're the same character anymore

which honestly

I think it's better that they're not the same character

cause otherwise the lore would get all sorts of messy

[limber ridge]

Yeah because it allows both writers to give their own vision

[tiny verge]

that and it means they can't contradict one another

they exist in their own bubble

[ripe berry]

we can then take these timelines and apply pieces from the others with necessary changes to make them work in one timeline

[limber ridge]

What If games actually aren't semi canon since they aren't linear medias
/j

[tiny verge]

oh but I do have to note that Alex is thinking of giving one of the HN games media DLC where it has the cartoon accessible within the game
not sure which game he's thinking of but I think it's likely the first one (even though I feel the second one deserves it way more)

not sure if this will affect what people consider "game only lore" or not but uh

that is something interesting to keep in mind

[ripe berry]

like the games are missing things that help with timeline stuff
without WtRB the Halloween Incident is unplaceable in a timeline other then being vaguely 20+ years before HN2

[unkempt sleet]

I dont think thats gonna affect any lore theorizing, he's just trying to find a good place to put uncensored version of the show

[limber ridge]

Basically what we did before but no time loops making it tenfold easier to understand

[ripe berry]

He said "How does everyone feel about season 3 being a DLC to hello neighbor on steam?"

[tiny verge]

regardless I do hope it's gonna be the second one getting the DLC

[ripe berry]

and you can still say they exist in one world as campfire stories

[wanton roost]

hmmm when nikita said guest and added the eye emoji makes me think of the guests eye medallion thingy

[tiny verge]

can be though, that's to the HN2 Guest which Nikita isn't doing anything for

doesn't even know who the HN2 Guest is

[wanton roost]

theres a chance he can know who he is tho

[tiny verge]

he said he does not

[limber ridge]

Yep.
Thinking about canon in HN and such makes me think how exactly plot Holes or retcons or other stuff feels in universe in other franchises. They really don't. That's kinda the same thing for HN just there are no retcons.

[wanton roost]

but theres a chance if he wants to know bruh

[ripe berry]

like either way you need something outside of the games to pin down the timeline in the games

[wanton roost]

not everything is confirmation instantly

[limber ridge]

And it still is in the same universe with campfire stories ofc

[tiny verge]

and I don't think Nikita has a reason to just lie when the better option to avoid revealing too much is to not answer anything related to it

[wanton roost]

im saying he can get to know who he is sooner or later

[tiny verge]

he already seems to have quite alot planned though

[ripe berry]

plot hole? retcon? continuity error? That's just the storyteller forgetting those details in-universe

[tiny verge]

why should he throw that out just to connect the two versions of the Guest..?

and yes, he WOULD have to throw out alot because already the Forest Dweller is considered to not be the real Guest

[wanton roost]

i doubt soo much of the story is planned were in pre alpha stage

[tiny verge]

I doubt everything is planned

but alot of it seems to be

[ripe berry]

like obviously a story passed down isn't going to get everything right

[limber ridge]

Pre Alpha story is supposed to be the same lore

[tiny verge]

he's already gotten the whole two Guests idea

[limber ridge]

That will stick around till full game, but full game will have changes

Iirc

[wanton roost]

theres def gonna be more in the full game

[tiny verge]

the real Guest being "God", the town worships him
and the "Guest" (the Forest Dweller) bing an anti-christ, manipulating the vandals while using the image of "God"

we already have that lore detail

[limber ridge]

What If pre Alpha already has a lot

[tiny verge]

the premise is the lore seems planned already and that's what I was trying to say

and well, as for the HN2 Guest

[limber ridge]

Prototype Lore changed quite a bit i think

For pre alpha

[tiny verge]

it does not seem like Alex wants to make him a fake Guest

[limber ridge]

I remember Nikita saying so

[tiny verge]

the metaphorical Faust reapplication can only apply to HN3

[limber ridge]

Faust reaplications can apply to AS too in other ways

[ripe berry]

also now that I think about it it makes sense because even some minor things had problems
like WtRB didn't create the necessary room for the Back to School DLC in HN2 in it's timeline

(must be a time where the school's been closed for awhile but before Quentin knows what happened to Nicky)

[tiny verge]

I honestly never considered the DLCs ever

and I never will

[ripe berry]

now instead of time loops we can now just label it as being due to different mediums and stories in the HN World

[eager island]

and the neighbor being the "devil"

[unkempt sleet]

y'know the campfire theory would be a fire opener in a HN timeline video

[tiny verge]

I like how it's metaphorical now too instead of literal, probably the best way they could bring back the Faust metaphors

[limber ridge]

I just realised tehnically by using the image of The Guest, the dweller leads people away from him, which feeds into Theodore's wants, as the devil

[unkempt sleet]

"Let's sit around the campfire, and listen to the story of a town called Raven Brooks..."

[ripe berry]

wait yeah
it'd actually be perfect

[unkempt sleet]

yeaa

[tiny verge]

wait hold on
maybe that's what it is, maybe Peterson wants the Guest to stop being worshipped and praised as some God..?

Idk that's the best idea I got

[limber ridge]

So you can even connect Forest dweller and Teddy as anti-christ and Devil respectively

[eager island]

he doesnt leads people away from the guest though

[limber ridge]

No i think It's more like he has a vendetta with the whole town

[tiny verge]

Idk it's technically not a 1:1 metaphor anyways

[eager island]

more like he makes them more and more addicted to the guest

[ripe berry]

when HN3 Comes out someone NEEDS to make a Hyper-Droid styled HN Timeline Video

[tiny verge]

some things can vary between the original Faust book and the Faust metaphors in HN3

[unkempt sleet]

true true

[limber ridge]

Different one
Doesn't that make it completely different of a ceremony?

[eager island]

*more and more addicted to himself

[eager island]

they still think its the real guest

he manipulated vandals somehow

[tiny verge]

probably used how freakishly ugly and tall he was with his fake beak to make them think he was their "God"

[ripe berry]

so real Guest is HN2 Guest (whoever it is in WtRB(?))
Forest Dweller/fake Guest is HN3 Guest (possibly Aaron)
?

[limber ridge]

Still, If they don't make the intented ceremony and another one instead, there's no "protection" from the storm?

[unkempt sleet]

Yes

[eager island]

i dont think so

[tiny verge]

in HN3 the real Guest is the mascot depictions of the Guest (like the statue)

but I think in HN2 the real Guest is the Guest we see

[limber ridge]

Depends on how Wtrb Guest'll be

[eager island]

its more like they are not same character

and would makes sense since nikita doesnt know about hn2 guest

[tiny verge]

see the thing is too the Guest isn't really his name to begin with

so for all we know

[eager island]

i always thought of them as different characters

[tiny verge]

they could have real names that are just

[unkempt sleet]

thats what Mike said though

[tiny verge]

different entirely

[tiny verge]

not exactly the same

again the real Guest in HN3 isn't a physical being

[eager island]

no i mean hn2 guest ≠ hn3 guest (both the fake and real one)

[unkempt sleet]

Yea isnt that, what Mike said here #lore-discussion message

[safe charm]

Nah i Think hn3 guest is the real one in hn3

[tiny verge]

again, in HN3 the Guest is not a physical being

[limber ridge]

Mike said HN2 Guest = HN3 Guest(real one)

[eager island]

yeah

[tiny verge]

can't be, he's the "anti-christ"

he uses the image of the Guest to manipulate the vandals

[eager island]

he talks about the real one

not forest dweller

[ripe berry]

also (as per Kevin Engberg and Mr. Apple)
the HN2 Artstation says Stories of the Guest have existed for ages

[tiny verge]

ohh

[ripe berry]

stories of the Guest have existed for ages

[tiny verge]

yeah that makes sense

[unkempt sleet]

what

[tiny verge]

by the way I still am salty that it seems like cryptid Guest isn't happening

[limber ridge]

Maybe under this idea we'll be able to make them the same, time only will tell

[unkempt sleet]

@ripe berry is that what you said

[safe charm]

I Think the idea of forest dweller not being the real guest is stupid

To me its obvious what Nikita mean’t

[tiny verge]

no not what he said either

[safe charm]

The 2 guest being the legend and the dweller

[eager island]

its actually makes more sense to me

[ripe berry]

I mean yeah but I was just messing with ideas

[limber ridge]

We think the real guest is the legend for context

[ripe berry]

I still prefer this though

[tiny verge]

ok the thing is it actually is cooler that the Forest Dweller is the "anti-christ" because it kind of reapplies the Faust without actually making it the Faust

[eager island]

i mean i dont think theres 2 entity as the guest

[tiny verge]

and instead makes it metaphorical

[safe charm]

Basically if theres 2 guest running around that’s kinda weird

[tiny verge]

there's only one Guest in HN2, and there's only one physically real Guest in HN3

[safe charm]

Like at the same time

[eager island]

yeah its not the case probably

[tiny verge]

the real Guest isn't a physical entity

[eager island]

but forest dweller is not "the guest" too

[safe charm]

This is what i mean

[tiny verge]

he is the mascot depictions, aka "God"

[ripe berry]

even if not intentional the little we know about HN2 Guest (a being that's existed in stories for ages) works with what we know of HN3 Guest Lore (having been a town symbol likely since founding, a being who's stories have existed for ages)

[safe charm]

The real guest is the symbol

[limber ridge]

I thought forest dweller was the "guest" while mural Guest was the Guest

[tiny verge]

where the Forest Dweller is using the image of "God" like in an anti-christ way

[tiny verge]

basically yes

now I'm not sure what they're doing for HN2 but I am confident this is what HN3's real Guest is

[eager island]

its like that, i wrote those with different purpose

[ripe berry]

HN2 Guest and HN3 Guest are most likely both people using the symbol of the Guest for their own means

[limber ridge]

I see

[ripe berry]

one leans more into it being a Raven Man (HN2 Guest) while the other (HN3 Guest) doesn't

[tiny verge]

I don't think the HN2 Guest is gonna follow the same thing though, Alex seems to have different plans for him

[safe charm]

Hn2 is kinda weird placing in continuity rn

Cause alex Said hn2 was Tied directly with the AS lore

And that They shared universe

[ripe berry]

I mean like retroactively adding onto HN2/WtRB's Guest lore

[limber ridge]

I think so in a combined timeline but i feel like HN2 Guest won't be depicted that wau

[eager island]

nikita does not know about hn2, you can't expect someone to continue a story they don't know, can you?

[safe charm]

This is what i mean

Nikita has Even Said hn2 isnt canon in the way we think

To his story

[ripe berry]

it's still mostly the same
it's just in the games there's added context of the Guest being a pre-existing symbol in Raven Brooks

[safe charm]

I don’t Think you can just have hn2 and hn3 be 1-1

Put in a timeline

[tiny verge]

yeah that's precisely the thing

they are both canon but they aren't 1:1 to each other

[limber ridge]

Not If we used the same exact events

[eager island]

just ignore hn2 while talking about hn3 😀

[tiny verge]

I think what's going on is that the HN3 Guest (both "God" and the "Guest") have their own lore
and with the HN2 (or in other words WTRB) Guest, Alex is going to have the origin story of the Guest which kinda implies there isn't some kind of symbol thing going on

I think how we should look at it

[safe charm]

Nikita has Even Said its hn1 that’s the most important for hn3 no?

[tiny verge]

is not that the Guest are even the same concept in-universe

[eager island]

i dont think he said that, but its the case for me

only hn1 and hide and seek

[limber ridge]

Implied i think, and HaS too

[ripe berry]

basically I think Nikita might pull something like this to allow for HN2 Guest and HN3 Guest to coexist to some degree
#lore-discussion message

[safe charm]

I still don’t know wth happened with the guest During development

Why is he a demon bird/monster in hnvr and reset day

[tiny verge]

I don't think he's a literal demon in those

though I can say they were based off of an old scrapped HN2 lore

[safe charm]

Reset day is very hard to explain

[tiny verge]

I think atleast

[eager island]

what the hell happened at raven brooks that cause cancelling of festival though

[tiny verge]

I know for a fact the VR game was based off of the HN2 alpha story

[eager island]

because the cancellation of the festival started it all

[ripe berry]

Golden Apple Corporation stuff I think

[tiny verge]

the whole "Guest World" thing actually originates from the alpha story

[ripe berry]

Golden Apple Corporation then used "God" Guest as a mascot

[safe charm]

Do we know when it was cancelled

[eager island]

1980

[safe charm]

Oh so before hn1

[tiny verge]

of course it was changed during development and isn't 1:1 with that story anymore but that's probably why the Guest is so strange in the VR game

[eager island]

yeah, to establish a connection with the town

[ripe berry]

I know this image is outdated now but

[limber ridge]

Imagine Golden Apple just took the guest and locked him behind a paywall all "You want to do festivals? Pay us"

[eager island]

GA is outsider in hn3 i believe

[safe charm]

I feel like hnvr guest might be sw interpetation of the guest world storyline

[ripe berry]

(outdated bc it treats WtRB as 100% canon to the games timeline)

[tiny verge]

and I'm assuming the same applies to Reset Day, it's just leftovers of a cancelled story with them trying to change it to what the final game became

[limber ridge]

Idk the GA book was scrapped, If you mean it's outside of Raven Brooks

[eager island]

a company that invests in the town,

the fact that theres a GA publishing unrelated to RB also points to this

[tiny verge]

god I'm not gonna lie, I am glad they changed the Guest's model a bit
that beak was HUGE

plus I kinda prefer the spiked gloves and boots more anyways

[ripe berry]

like the Golden Apple Corporation found an excuse to end the tradition
then started doing theater shows of God!Guest
before slowly corrupting the mascot to meet their own goals

[limber ridge]

Most people like the new guest model to my knowledge

[eager island]

its based on somewhere else, they start investing in Raven Brooks for a reason, and gradually take over the town until the storm (?)

[limber ridge]

Maybe

[tiny verge]

I'm just being a bit specific with my wording cause I specifically mean the Beta model

[dreamy sluice]

honestly i don't know why people dislike patch 9 guest

[tiny verge]

the cloak is cool n' all but I just think the Beta model has the best balance

[dreamy sluice]

the cloakless one

cloak is stupid

hate that

[eager island]

because I think the reason Raven Brooks was half-abandoned is because of another storm

[ripe berry]

which fits with Secret Neighbor very clearly showing a Theater in the Golden Apple Amusement Park

[eager island]

and its recent, like in 2020s

[limber ridge]

Who does? Everyone i ever met likes that one.

[tiny verge]

I like the cloak but I also like the bag too

[ripe berry]

a reference to the "origins" of their use of the mascot

[dreamy sluice]

like all of my friends

[tiny verge]

also the cloakless Guest isn't the Patch 9 Guest

that's the Beta model

it appeared way before Patch 9

but after the HN2 Alphas

[limber ridge]

Idk skill Issue on their part or smth
(/j in case they're watching)

[dreamy sluice]

wouldn't know, i'm not a hn2 guy (i hate hn2)

[tiny verge]

Secret Neighbor actually still uses the Beta model

[tiny verge]

fair enough

honestly my biggest problem with the Patch 9 design is that the colors are just

weird

they changed the sleeves and pants for some reason

[ripe berry]

which aligns with what we know because HN2 was going to have a storm occur at some point during it based off the photos in Patch 9

[tiny verge]

and it just doesn't look as good as the Beta model or the Hello Guest model

[tiny verge]

also I have seen some people complain about the spiked gloves and boots, Idk why but apparently not everyone likes them

I personally think they look good though

[ripe berry]

(I know combining lore isn't a good idea rn but Idc I'd prefer to try to connect things and be wrong then not connect things and have to go back and do so when HN3 finally drops)

[tiny verge]

and help to distinguish him and Peterson
they're both gloved fellows so it could become really confusing really quick

[eager island]

who do you think the first victim of forest dweller is?

isaac sr or newspaper randos

[eager island]

probably the second option

[limber ridge]

Isaac sr. Is more beat up so maybe that one.

[eager island]

the newspaper was protected on museum though

[dreamy sluice]

wdym

[safe charm]

So do you Think forest dweller is Aaron?

[tiny verge]

here let me first move to another channel, would throwback be good since I'll be delving into an old model too..?

[eager island]

and there is that (possible forest dweller related)

[dreamy sluice]

has to be the randos, they're in the museum for a reason

[eager island]

yes and hopefully its the case

it fits perfectly with his story arc

[dreamy sluice]

kk

[tiny verge]

hold on my computer froze

[limber ridge]

The "eyeball" looks like a balloon lol

Or maybe that's just me

[eager island]

speaking of first victim, vandals to think forest dweller (or "the guest" as its what they think) lucy yi got killed by him

and they use same way to sacrificing Isaac

[limber ridge]

What're the odds something similar happened with Isaac Sr and mayak peopleᵀᴹ

Or just that it happened in other forms

Since i'm not sure mayak even will be canonically there

[ripe berry]

so rough games only timeline rn:
RB Founded in 1842 as a mining town with God!Guest Ritual
Cult begins to form
Roger and Adelle Peterson have Theodore Peterson and build the Mayak Weather Station
the Weather Station is abandoned
Halloween Incident/People disappear at local Weather Station
People go Missing in Raven Brooks Woods
Quentin and Beatrix born
Beatrix goes missing
the Guest Ritual ends in 1980, Golden Apple Corp starts uses Guest as a mascot
Perilous Chemistry Lessons/Library Cards Cancelled
The Proud of Our Town
Aaron Peterson and Nicky Roth born
Mya Peterson Born
The Golden Apple Amusement Park opens and closes after a girl dies on the roller coaster Theodore Peterson built
HNHS + Horrific Car Accident + HND Memories
Peterson's Missing Children
Search Continues
Red Tape
HN1 Act 1
Another Kid Missing
Final Museum Closure
Golden Apple Corp Investors put money into trying to reopen the GAAP
Abandoned Monument of Architecture
Raven Brooks Sign Falls Again
Garden Gnome Contest
HN2!Guest adopts Guest Persona
Most HN2 Tapes
Missing Truth Seeker
HNVR
HN1 Act 2 (actual events)
White Tape
HN2 DLCs
HN2
LayoutV2
HE
Storm hits Raven Brooks, Nicky's Family leaves in a hurry due to it
HN2 Patch 9
HE Sandbox
SN
HN1 Act 2 + Nightmares Sequences (In-game)
HN1 Act 3 + Finale
HND
HN3
Raven Brooks dies in a storm or smth Idk

...

jeez that's a lot of stuff...

[eager island]

theres also another storm i would say

somewhere between hnd and hn3

[ripe berry]

alright

[ripe berry]

this isn't everything but it's a good chunk of stuff

[safe charm]

Why are you counting cut content

Though

[ripe berry]

I didn't label HN3 Guest taking on Guest Persona bc Idk where that'd fall in the games-only timeline

[safe charm]

I don’t Think layout v2 is canon

[eager island]

ive always interpreted the storms in HN3 as storms started as less harmful but intensified over the years

[ripe berry]

it's a placeholder until an official explanation for how Quentin survives after HN2's Main Game Ending is provided

[safe charm]

There probably wont he

[limber ridge]

I mean If it was their intention at least at one point and they made patch 9 happened...

[safe charm]

An explaination though

I Think the dude just died

[ripe berry]

so it remains until there is one

[eager island]

and while the final storm didnt destroy the town, it was powerful enough to force half the townspeople to flee and largely drive GA out of the area

[safe charm]

Also im not sure how much hn2 matters currently in the lore

[eager island]

and the 2028 storm will finish the job the previous one left unfinished

[dreamy sluice]

what's canon is layout v2 except the guest doesn't come and get fella trust

so quentin like starves to death or is sacrificed or whatever was gonna happen

i'm loremaster trust me

[limber ridge]

I read that as "Quentin likes to starve to death..."

[ripe berry]

alright
the HN2 Storm works well for that from what we see of it in photos in Patch 9 but you can say there's another storm after that that drives more people away

[safe charm]

I Think Nikita not Even knowing what hn2 story is About Should tell us enough though

[ripe berry]

and without AS there's still the unsolved implication that Nicky's family left RB in a hurry presented in HN1

[eager island]

i mean theres photos of townspeople that doesnt look like post-hurricane

[ripe berry]

pictures and boxes are still around the house in HN1 Act 3

[ripe berry]

fair

[tiny verge]

I really do think they're gonna kill Quentin off so that's probably what they're gonna do

[ripe berry]

which makes more sense if the family had to suddenly leave

[eager island]

since isaac is around ten years old, it cant be that much before

[ripe berry]

alright so how about ~5 years before HN3

2023

[eager island]

its sometime between 2021-2024 for me

[dreamy sluice]

imagine it's simply the family bolting after nicky was found

[safe charm]

Btw what storyline do you Think hnvr followed?

[ripe berry]

since WtRB no longer shows Nicky getting sent away
a games-only implication is the storm that's implied by HE and HN2 is what drove Nicky's family to leave in such a hurry

[safe charm]

Like which era

[dreamy sluice]

considering it was made around the same time as hn2, probably that one

[ripe berry]

if I must ask, why between 2021 and 2024?

[limber ridge]

I wanna headcannon the storm is in 2021 that way we can say Reset day continued by getting most of the characters killed of or smth

[dreamy sluice]

esp given the ending of s&r prompts the beginning of hn2

where peterson's fleeing from the cops

[safe charm]

Well its likely its an older version

Of hn2 lore

Not the fg version

[dreamy sluice]

probably, but i don't think there's much that would actually be affected by that

based on what i know having changed

which is like uh i think it's just aaron being in the attic vs not being in the attic

i don't know, i'm not hn2 guy

[safe charm]

The big elephant in the room is the guest

Hnvr guest is weird

[limber ridge]

I think they based it off that and changed it quite a bit

[dreamy sluice]

i forgot abt that guy

i'm not sure hnvr guest is real

[safe charm]

This is just straight up supernatural

[dreamy sluice]

maybe it's a representation of something similar to the thing in hn1

[safe charm]

Maybe

[dreamy sluice]

pls ps pls can i have the aaron doll pls pls pls

[eager island]

well in the image i post above has isaac as like 5 yeard old or something (whos either 9-11 years old)

if he is 11 in 2028, and if we say he is 5 yo in the photo, it makes 2022, the furthest date we can give is 2022 i think

but that doesn't even matter that much, looking at the information we have right now, its just best to assume its in 2020s

[limber ridge]

Metaphors aren't restricted by supernatural/natural existance

[eager island]

yeah its post nikita but pre full game

[glacial whale]

No no it was just a lens flare that blinded Aaron for a moment and then yea guest is in there and crow flys out

[ripe berry]

alright

[ripe berry]

I see it as metaphorical stuff

[safe charm]

You Think its when guest lore stopped Making sense according to alex?

[ripe berry]

like how we see and interact with the Thing in HN1

but it's not actually there

[eager island]

maybe

[ripe berry]

or Guest World representation of the Guest

[limber ridge]

Come to think of it didn't Alex say that AS will explain that? Or did he only say it about the AS/HN2 Guest?

[ripe berry]

he said AS Guest wouldn't match with everything

and HNVR is before the WtRB Guest exists within the context of WtRB

[limber ridge]

Oh yeah

[eager island]

hnvr is more like story of that one producer who wrote hn2 alphas with nikita

[safe charm]

Oh yeah could be

[limber ridge]

So HNVR is also kind of its own thing?

[dreamy sluice]

nikita in a fake moustache trust

[safe charm]

Idk i just find it hard to say hnvr guest is not supernatural

Theres so much hints he is

[limber ridge]

Actually everything is Its own thing atp

[safe charm]

In the game

[dreamy sluice]

there's only one egs employee ever

[unkempt sleet]

wait why are we grouping HNVR now

[glacial whale]

I guess it’s just another gn2 situation maybe?

[ripe berry]

I mean
just look at HN1 by itself
no developer statements
and tell me if the Thing seems supernatural

[safe charm]

Cause i mean you kinda have too unfortunally

Much of these games do not connect

Mostly hnvr
Hn2 era

[ripe berry]

HNVR Guest could fall under the same boat

[safe charm]

I Think its cause of the development issues

[unkempt sleet]

what doesnt connect about HNVR and HN2 other than supernatural Guest

[safe charm]

Btw what era do you Think this was?

When adam was told

You Think it was the AS version?

[limber ridge]

When did he become free lance

[unkempt sleet]

also you can probably make HNVR Guest not supernatural if you just say him turning into a crow is symbolic of him representing a crow

[limber ridge]

Do we know

[safe charm]

Oh yeah that’s true

[eager island]

after hn2 release

[unkempt sleet]

you just gotta agree he's a different person than Aaron or Ted

[safe charm]

I mean obv

In hnvr

Hes neither of them

[limber ridge]

Thanks

[ripe berry]

there's only one problem in the form of the scene that's implicitly when Aaron was originally locked in the basement

[unkempt sleet]

He still comes and tricks Aaron and then goes after Ted

[safe charm]

Roger Peterson trust

That’s the identity

[unkempt sleet]

He comes through the vents

oh wait you mean the other one

[ripe berry]

hence why I say HNVR Guest might be a metaphorical thing like Vector suggested awhile back

[unkempt sleet]

trinity dream sequence

[ripe berry]

yeah

[dreamy sluice]

dream deon....

[unkempt sleet]

I mean isnt the basement connected to the tunnels

[dreamy sluice]

dream demon...

[ripe berry]

plus we gotta remember we can't trust that a perspective is pure fact even if it's an adult
HN1 Nicky's perspective shows the Thing even though they're literally just a representation of Nicky's Fear

[safe charm]

Also isnt the chase sequence also labled as a dream

The guest one

[ripe berry]

almost every HN Game plays with perspectives

[unkempt sleet]

neighbors lament wasnt it

[ripe berry]

HN1 - Act 2 is a Distorted Memory
HNHS - imagination ontop of reality
SN - imagination
HE - imagination ontop of reality

[ripe berry]

yeah I remember that existing

[ripe berry]

so HNVR Act 3 (that's what the files call it yes?) and Guest World/Dark Dream could be HNVR messing with perspectives and stuff

[unkempt sleet]

yes

[ripe berry]

again
the games have always layered metaphors and perspectives ontop of reality since the very first game, showing things (heh) that don't even actually exist to the player

[unkempt sleet]

also Guest was probably inside the walls of the house

in HNVR

[ripe berry]

so it's not that hard to have HNVR Guest not be supernatural if you just remember this fact.

[frozen marten]

Hey real quick what are your guys opinions on hello neighbor having ghosts theory?

[limber ridge]

So like the first comic shows one but it's seemingly a "dream"(quotes because im not sure if it's metaphorical or some coping of smth else) of sorts

And also Alex said this

[marsh idol]

yea definitely the more canon and accurate height of theo

[marsh idol]

i hate when people think that one ghost from the graphic novel is like an actual ghost

i think it was like the imaginary ghost of someone's dead cousin

[limber ridge]

For people who don't have enough context and aren't deep in the Lore...

I can get it

But there's enough info to contradict it

[marsh idol]

it's understandable there's tons of visual metaphors

people thinking peterson or, mart, just kidnaps kids and that's really all he is

[frozen marten]

I didn't know that graphic novel existed I was referring to another ghost

[marsh idol]

or that his basement is a literal pocket dimension

[frozen marten]

Sorry

[limber ridge]

Where did that one even come from

[marsh idol]

the thing boss fight and the giant theo "fight"

[limber ridge]

Ah

[frozen marten]

The ghost I was referring to was the file of Lucy Yi ghost in secret neighbor

[ripe berry]

yeah

[limber ridge]

Oh secret neighbor's imagination

[ripe berry]

like I've started to accept HNVR has visual metaphors
HN1 has visual metaphors with the Thing

[limber ridge]

Everything HN has visual metaphors

Balanced

As all things should be

/Hj

[ripe berry]

HNHS and SN definitely have visual metaphors

[limber ridge]

HN3 even can be inferred to have some kind due to the storm ending

For books it's harder to tell

And also for AS

[ripe berry]

yeah since we aren't visibly seeing anything with the books we can't exactly tell

[frozen marten]

Possibly but I don't know since it wasn't confirmed that there are no pocket dimensions

[limber ridge]

Hello engineer also has visual metaphors me thinks

[ripe berry]

at this point the only game that could be missing them might be HN2

[frozen marten]

HN3 I think

[tiny verge]

the story I feel is presented alot differently

the fact all the cutscenes are only first person and the fact it's just

pretty straightforward

journalist goes to neighbor house

[ripe berry]

and even then early HN2 was going to have the ultimate visual metaphor (Guest World)

[tiny verge]

the alpha story and Hello Guest definitely would've had more metaphors though

man I wish the full story could've been finished though

EVERY Hello Neighbor 2 story is unfinished and that's a shame

[frozen marten]

For real

[tiny verge]

Guest World was pretty cool

I'm just really disappointed this game's story was left unfinished

that was the main thing I was looking towards and they cancelled it

[frozen marten]

Maybe they will pick it back up in the future

[tiny verge]

I doubt it

[frozen marten]

Let me be delusional

[tiny verge]

I've just grown hopeless about it

but when hope is lost

fan projects begin to form

that's kinda why I'm doing my own Quentin fan game

[frozen marten]

Hell yeah and I'll play it >:]

[tiny verge]

instead of being negatively hopeless I rather take what I hoped to see and make something out of it, combine it with a joke lore me and my aunt made and now I've got the premise for a plot

[marsh idol]

there never was

just some misinterpretations

[frozen marten]

?

[marsh idol]

there doesn't need to be confirmation of a pocket dimension if that goes against the one line that supernatural occurrence does not exist

and there would be like no point in a pocket dimension

or an alternate universe

[tiny verge]

pocket dimensions..?

wdym pocket dimensions

[ripe berry]

prob referring to Guest World or smth

[tiny verge]

oh

yeah no the Guest world is just a whole metaphorical thing

[ripe berry]

or this message

[tiny verge]

who the hell thought Peterson's basement was a pocket dimension

[ripe berry]

I see Guest World/Dark Dream and the Stages of HNHS as the same thing
imagination layered ontop of reality

[frozen marten]

Well it was just a little theory I had thought of ghosts being a possibility and secret neighbor

[tiny verge]

I mean it kinda is considering the Guest World comes from the HN2 Alphad

[eager island]

hn3 has a lot of visual metaphors though...

[ripe berry]

because both aren't real as we see them in-game
but both can have real world effects

[tiny verge]

and was basically Quentin's imagination to think through the information he was finding

[limber ridge]

Nikita does grounded storytelling

[frozen marten]

It meant for the children

[ripe berry]

y'know what
in the future:
Guest World/Outskirts - HN2 Alphas Guest World
Guest World/Dark Dream - HNVR's Guest World

and Guest World/The Nest - Raven Brooks Disaster's Guest World

[eager island]

?

[limber ridge]

HN3?

[tiny verge]

so the Guest World does have elements of imagination layered on reality

but I do think the Guest World is mostly just metaphor

[frozen marten]

Like which games had the usual group of children in them aka the rescue squad

[ripe berry]

Guest World/Dark Dream, Guest World/Outskirts, HNHS Stages, HE's Levels, all of them are just imagination layered on reality

[ripe berry]

this is only because Guest World can refer to completely different things depending on what you're talking about

[marsh idol]

real world effects to the mind at best

https://x.com/anichiporchik/status/2037612967034863756?s=61

Alex Nichiporchik (@aNichiporchik)

X · Mar 27, 2026, 7:29 PM

anything but red blood

people speculate that since it was only nicky and martiza who survives, and everyone else dies by the guest

[limber ridge]

Well that's a really random twosome to survive; Why those two

[marsh idol]

well Nicky obviously isnt random

[limber ridge]

Nicky yeah

[marsh idol]

as for the other, this guy presented the idea

https://x.com/k11mcyt/status/2037352131988996154?s=61

K11MC (@k11mcyt)

@TheHNTheorist @Karawooper It would be crazy if the children died fighting the guest, although it would make sense since at least in 2021 only Maritza and Nicky were left alive, the others are dead/missing

X · Mar 27, 2026, 2:12 AM

[limber ridge]

Oh wait i think i saw that

[marsh idol]

just saw it and paraphrased it here

but martiza is like

i think they died in reset day

[limber ridge]

Well If we used reset day then Trinity would also need to be alive

[marsh idol]

trinity yes too

[limber ridge]

Prettee sure She didn't

[marsh idol]

i guess

[limber ridge]

There's huge gaps in my memory If that's the case

[limber ridge]

Actually nevermind

It wasn't confirmed that Trinity was Enzo's wife in reset day

But it would be really weird If they made it a different character outta nowhere

[marsh idol]

well so

i guess WTRB

isnt canon

sigh

[eager island]

it is

[alpine crystal]

WTRB is canon, just not connected

[limber ridge]

This comes from Alex's message doesn't it?

But Alex does pretty much say the same for everything else in this message with the second sentence.

[ripe berry]

Everything is canon
but not in a way most think

[wanton roost]

this should be answered one way or another really

[limber ridge]

Do we even know If AS answers it? I know mayak explains it all

[wanton roost]

only hope is AS tbh

if mayak is the source to everything the only thing that has mayak is the AS

[limber ridge]

They are hinting at it through statements ngl

[wanton roost]

ig we will see the whole thing soon after all s3 is literally done

[limber ridge]

Yeah

One thing we know we'll learn for sure is the Guest identity

[wanton roost]

i wonder why its taking them a bit for scheduling the release

[limber ridge]

And also Alex implied it's connected with mayak

[wanton roost]

hopefully it doesnt ruin things tho

[limber ridge]

Well i think they could have scheduled it maybe

But i don't think they'll release it very soon

I think they want a date that can gather as much hype

And also can somewhat align with something HN3 or something abt the movie

[wanton roost]

they went wild with there schedules

im sure its smth ab the movie

[wanton roost]

movie def

[limber ridge]

Yeah i think If anything the trailer might come out around pre Alpha release

Oh wait that's not Lore anymore

[wanton roost]

hmmm maybe

its a good ol sunday

and iirc

some trailer released in sunday

[limber ridge]

The first season 2 might have

[wanton roost]

lemme chek

[limber ridge]

Nope

It was like wednesday

[wanton roost]

other trailer was monday

i say

TODAY

[pulsar field]

what’s the lore on hn i lowk forgot after hn2

[limber ridge]

Basically

There's a cult.

The cult like kills people or something

There's also this mayak weather station made by the parents of Teddy

And Teddy is the neighbor his family dies eventually yada yada ya

Except his son whom he locks in the basement

He is ruined by grief

One day Nicky Roth notices him locking his son in the basement, gets kidnapped, escapes with the help of the neighbor's son, however is left traumatised and moves out.

And i think that's the basics.

Oh Nicky also eventually moves back into Raven Brooks after getting evicted, faces his trauma through a metaphorical self therapy sequence

[alpine crystal]

I don't think the Nikita timeline doesn't have anything related to the mayaks

(HG prototype doesn't count)

[limber ridge]

Oh yeah fair

I mean

[alpine crystal]

(HG prototype doesn't count!!11)

(even if a forest protector does exist in the Nikita timeline!!11)

[limber ridge]

We gotta make a list of stuff that stays generally consistent across all mediums don't we

Like Hide and Seek happens, the general idea of HN1

Or we could also just describe the events of the games/books/AS

But even then HN2 and HN3 don't exactly work together.

Or it could, If the HN3 Guest is someone that would have been able to be the Guest during HN2. But an Aaron Guest for HN3 would already make HN2 and 3 contradict

But making HN2 and 3 fit together is weird because they just aren't intented to.

[marsh idol]

does this not say it’s a different continuity from the game??

[marsh idol]

different continuity no?

[limber ridge]

He still says the same about everything later in that same message.

Different continuity doesn't even mean it can't still all be canon.

[marsh idol]

, that wording implies it’s its own continuity, since calling it a “standalone thing” suggests it isn’t meant to connect tightly to the main canon, and the part about “making the right decisions within the medium” means they chose a fixed version of events for that format rather than following or fitting into existing lore, so wouldnt this mean it’s a self contained version of the story rather than something fully canon to the main timeline

[limber ridge]

It's not fully canon in any case, you can't make AS fit fully with everything, just like you can't for the books.
The part about making the right decisions within the medium should apply to books vs games too for example.

[marsh idol]

then what does the all canon media statement imply

that other medias just rely on perspective

[limber ridge]

It's all canon but not in the way we think.

It's rough to give an objective explanation at the moment.

I mean everything being canon still never meant that everything is fully canon with other stuff, you can't make everything fit together without having some sort of semi-canon thing going on.

[limber ridge]

Alex said something similar to that a while ago too.

[unkempt sleet]

the announcement on sunday was HN3 right

[eager island]

(it didnt make any sense)

[limber ridge]

Clasic Alex

[ripe berry]

yeah I think so

[ripe berry]

y'know, I was going to say that due to games-only timeline under Campfire Theory Stuff HN3 saying the GAAP exists in 1984 is no longer a continuity error...
then I remember the Golden Apple Young Inventor's Club still exists in the Games, meaning that yes, it is still a continuity error

[silver vine]

yoyo guys

did we get any new lore since AS season 2

[wicked heath]

GooseGod

[wanton roost]

not rlly just making up guesses on new AS teaser like the cult leader

i think thats a new thing i mean a cult leader was in a portrait in hn2 but now theres more about the cult leader

[limber ridge]

Perspective theory at last reigns supreme.

[dense raven]

Perspective theory recovered

[ripe berry]

Welcome to Raven Brooks isn't 100% canon.

Alex confirmed so

[glacial whale]

I’m going to lose my mind if there not a way to follow some sort of timeline if “everything is canon” while not being 100% canon either.

[alpine crystal]

Perspective theory is confirmed

[alpine crystal]

Also Everything isn't 100% canon

They're just... Canon

[eager island]

everything is canon and everything isnt canon

canon is a flexible term

and everything is semi canon to each other according to alex

[limber ridge]

I think maybe the general idea of hide and seek with Hello Neighbor 1? Since they kinda happen in every continuity

The cult is tehnically not contradicted to have existed by any media

And also in everything Raven Brooks is a storm prone town

Mayak also always exists likely, considering it explains the continuities

[ripe berry]

the books and the "canon, but not in a way you think" thing is weird now that I think about it

because Nikita had already decided Mayak would explain everything by February 2020

but "books are tied with the game pretty close. - Nikita in a Reddit QnA in October 2020"

which by the way was after Reset Day and GN2 had already begun production

(RD existed since at least July 2020, RBD existed since at least August 2020, thanks Kevin Engberg for these facts)

[limber ridge]

Huh

The idea of time loops being a thing while Nikita was still working on the franchise is...

Weird

[ripe berry]

(because people in the server referenced their existence around these time periods)

[ripe berry]

and modern Hello Engineer had also begun work by then

Hello Engineer was officially announced only 8 days after the Reddit QnA

meaning the entirety of Island Plot was already worked on and replaced by then, with Island Plot having implications of time loops aswell

[limber ridge]

Especially since Nikita also like talks about story and read every draft supposedly

Unless that part specifically was about the comics which would make more sense

[ripe berry]

however we must remember how HN3 Devlog 1.5 explains things

Nikita had to fight to get his ideas in by this time

but it was likely referring to all of the books

[ripe berry]

however Idk since they talk story so I doubt Nikita didn't approve of Time Loop stuff

[limber ridge]

What are the chances that

Time loops are metaphorical

[ripe berry]

also just going to drop this here

[limber ridge]

This was around yellow press times right?

[ripe berry]

October 2020

end of HN2A1.5/beginning of HN2A2 times

because HN2A1.5 released only 14 days after the QnA

[ripe berry]

he brings up the different mediums make certain decisions thing that's more relevant now then ever with other things that have been said

aka the

[limber ridge]

Though that can't really be the whole thing, out of universe speaking (that different mediums require different choices)

[ripe berry]

yeah

[limber ridge]

Considering HN2 and HN3 seem to have different stories

[ripe berry]

how do we explain time loops being metaphorical then with Puzzle Master's Ending and what occurs in Reset Day?

[limber ridge]

Almost forgot puzzle master ending

[ripe berry]

or how do we give a grounded explanation to that ending in the first place

(aka how does Norman Darby seem to know the future)

[limber ridge]

Then again...

In HN3 the statue seems to stop the storm

Yet Nikita stated he does have a grounded storytelling tehnique

[ripe berry]

I mean to be fair Nikita's stories appear to have supernatural things at first glance

look at the Thing

[limber ridge]

But then If the statue stopping the storm is metaphorical while the storm basically has to happen(time limit and newspaper ending) then what happens literally once the statue stops the storm?

Though then there's the whole fact of Teddy just destroying the statue regardless

[ripe berry]

a metaphor for the bright future the town seems to have now that Theodore destroys when he returns

(first thought to come to my mind so it may be a bit half-baked)

[limber ridge]

So the statue wouldn't have literally stopped the storm?

[ripe berry]

no, I guess not

[limber ridge]

Okay that works

[eager island]

storm is also metaphorical i would say

[limber ridge]

But then it has to be taken into consideration that the statue worked for years

[ripe berry]

remember, HN3 can have things that aren't literal, it's literally people telling a campfire story
of course they're going to make it seem literal for the sake of their story

[ripe berry]

to be fair nothing said it worked, I mean, did the rituals the Mayans and the like perform actually work?

they just need to believe it works

[limber ridge]

Huh

Must've been a typo

[ripe berry]

probably had letters close enough together that it flagged what you were typing

[ripe berry]

nothing actually says it works, all that is said is the townsfolk believe it works
just like how ancient civilizations likely believed their own rituals worked even though they don't.

[ripe berry]

this could tie with the whole god/anti-christ theory stuff with the Guest in HN3

the town views Statue Guest as a godly entity that protects them from the storms even if no such entity actually exists (like the old gods from the romans or greeks or egyptians and the like)

with their own mythos and origins for why the Statue Guest exists and protects Raven Brooks
#lore-discussion message

#lore-discussion message

obviously Statue Guest isn't a real entity, but the town believes in it and the ritual
and the Forest Dweller is using the symbol for their own means

[ripe berry]

storm is real
Newspaper in campfire ending proves it

[eager island]

well i do think "the guest" is not a real entity too

but the NeverCook guest in files just makes everything more complicated

[ripe berry]

so yeah, HN3 doesn't have anything supernatural in it, it's metaphorical stuff that's allowed to exist through the narrative lens of a campfire story

anyways where were we before we drifted off into HN3 lore discussion?

[limber ridge]

Books and non canon statement together are weird

Time loops exist in books and in games while Nikita worked on story

[ripe berry]

oh yeah
the Books
I think the last thing we mentioned is the possibility of Time Loops being metaphorical, but with no clue as to how that'd work with Puzzle Master and Reset Day?

[limber ridge]

Actually under campfire stories wouldn't books also be something like a campfire story?

It would be from Aaron's perspective and he was there i think

[wanton roost]

huh go on frgiid

[ripe berry]

wait, is there any evidence for the books being stories people are sharing in-universe

[limber ridge]

Not really

If anything diaries is evidence of books being more like Nicky trying to recollect his memories privately

Or like book narrators in the first place

[ripe berry]

also early HN2 was going to have a character who'd try and fail to invent time travel
so just because Hello Engineer shows Ted trying to create time loops doesn't mean anything

[ripe berry]

the bit that needs to be explained is Sandbox Mode

[limber ridge]

Yet at the same time there's the fact that mayak still has to somehow be connected with the explanation, and the town being destroyed making info harder to collect is the thing that works relatively

[ripe berry]

and I mean, there could be some symbolism about how everything in the town feels like it's on repeat

[wanton roost]

new twitter post guys

[ripe berry]

huh

[limber ridge]

Okay are campfire stories told by people who lived through the events or just randos who are bored

[wanton roost]

i have no embeds

[ripe berry]

who made the post

Alex?

[wanton roost]

doesnt matter its just a random thing idk

[wanton roost]

hello neighbor games

[ripe berry]

ok

[limber ridge]

In reset day Piper thinks about how "when someone dies they die more than once" or something like that

How you feel them die all over in bigger and smaller ways

And also there's other thoughts she had on the same lines iirc.

[ripe berry]

disappearances stacked ontop of disappearances

Lucy's death

[limber ridge]

Is it the one where he talks about AS revealing the Guest?

[ripe berry]

then Aaron and Mya

then Nicky

[wanton roost]

close but no

[ripe berry]

then Enzo

[limber ridge]

Could You Dm it to me?

[wanton roost]

sure

[ripe berry]

also
another point to the loops being metaphorical:

they don't seem to work consistently

[limber ridge]

Also we can't forget, Beatrix, Mya and Franklin's disappearances/deaths overlap

[ripe berry]

how can certain things reset
but others don't?

and I don't just mean people's memories and stuff

[eager island]

so tinyjay

[ripe berry]

like why doesn't the Tillman Family's car get reset?

[wanton roost]

tinyjayindeed

[ripe berry]

or the recordings Marcia made talking about restoring the clock

[limber ridge]

And then there's the question of how it goes down literally

Which campfire stories can give a bit of an explanation I think(?)

[ripe berry]

but then there's the problem of Puzzle Master's Epilogue

if that's not literal then what does it represent?

it's not even from Aaron's perspective
it's from Miguel's

how does one explain the Red Key thing through a grounded means

and Reset Day not being literal has the problem of why would Piper or whoever see Summer 2022 in RB as the time after her dad's death and see RB as a literal loop and have Maritza, Vinod, and a few others know/notice

Time loops not being literal has problems
but time loops being literal has problems

Time only loops inside Raven Brooks in RD yet we have to explain a loop back four years that somehow affects the whole world so we can have Puzzle Master's Ending?

but if not a time loop then how could Norman Darby know, or why would someone portray him as knowing the future

and this is still Nikita Era so there should be some grounded explanation somehow right?

what kind of metaphors or symbolism even exist with fortune telling and future predicting and the like?

I guess you could say it's like "oh, their fate was already sealed" or whatever

sorry for this text wall chat

I'll let you all talk for a bit since I've talked way too much

(dang it I scared everyone off didn't I)

since the books are a headache let's move to somewhere where the implicit metaphorical stuff should be easier to figure out (Hello Engineer)

[limber ridge]

What exactly goes on in sandbox?

Theodore is shown to try and make time loops

Then eventually it seems to go wrong and the characters are trapped in sandbox and uhh... They make a rocket and escape?

[ripe berry]

Sandbox also has like- Idk Mayak barriers or whatever keeping you contained within it

[limber ridge]

And also there's the club house that has Lucy Yi?

[limber ridge]

Lighting Bolt looking things i heard

[ripe berry]

yeah

[ripe berry]

if loops are metaphorical maybe Sandbox is an extension of that

they're going through memories of their time at the GAAP with Lucy Yi or whatever

[limber ridge]

And maybe they're trapped there for some reason

[ripe berry]

wait

[limber ridge]

Like Theodore doesn't want them to get in his plans

[ripe berry]

that makes them using a Rocket to escape make sense

bc iirc the Rocket Event Trophy says it was made by the Golden Apple Young Inventor's Club

[ripe berry]

if literal yes
if metaphor/symbolism idk

[ripe berry]

also thinking about it
Sandbox can't be real can it?
how did they win the trophy if the car's broken down in wherever the Sandbox Realm is

what did they bring to the state inventor's contest?

they probably wouldn't even be able to submit anything since it's been like a month by the time of Sandbox realm

and I doubt submissions were open that long

so Sandbox could be like a representation of their memories or whatever, hence why the photos in the ending seem to occur in the Sandbox Realm and why the ending is an "irl version" of the Rocket Event that was likely the last project the Golden Apple Young Inventor's Club made

[limber ridge]

I think a vehicle submision being allowed 1 month after or so is pretty reasonable

[ripe berry]

and why it looks like the GAAP maybe

[ripe berry]

...fair

just trying to think of how would Nikita make this into something grounded

I feel like Nikita might try to have everything be grounded
the books are a headache but I feel with games and stuff you have a lot more leeway

but both likely somehow aren't too out there since Nikita had to approve of it

and WtRB is somehow grounded despite the giant Mayak Lightning Laser

so uh what's the current theory about everything

[limber ridge]

With wtrb i still think it's possible some of that stuff is just sci fi

Since i don't really feel like Alex's story is that grounded

He did say this though.

[ripe berry]

fair

[limber ridge]

But also i feel like stuff seen in AS is much easier to try and call a metaphor then the time loops in the books

Then the problem is what does it really symbolise

The coins, considering Alex brought up how he wanted to the story of HN2(which AS would have supposedly tied in) to be about greed and love, could tie into the greed side of things

But the lightning beam...

Would it be how much Franklin's loss affected Teddy?

[limber ridge]

Why've i heard that Aaron was that Guest at one point?

Like for which build\version of the story?

[ripe berry]

I think it was a theory that popped in and out of existence over the years

[limber ridge]

Ik it was a thing back in Alpha 1-1.5 days(HN2)

[ripe berry]

people misinterpreting leaked ending audio from the HN2 Demo Files was another time

then HNVR happened.

[limber ridge]

Huh?!

Was that what lead to the AaronGuest conclusion?

Or was it an unrelated thing?

[ripe berry]

people thought the audio in the ending was like supernatural Guest contorting Aaron's Body or something because they didn't have the context of what was actually happening in the scene

[limber ridge]

Ah

[ripe berry]

they just knew Aaron and Theodore were there, and there were unexplainable at the time sounds, and tried to draw their own conclusions

[ripe berry]

the Well could be tied into Loss in general

the Well is gurgling, almost ready for youknow what...

the obvious implication being them planning to cause mass suffering so they could soar

and the Well activating seems to be tied to that.

[limber ridge]

Well the books do show some connections in between weather and luck

I know books and AS are different continuities

[ripe berry]

but general world logistics should carry over

like FNaF
even between timelines we trust that Remnant and the like behaves the same in FNaF

also I've just given up on trying to come up with a grounded explanation for the books

[limber ridge]

Yeah that's fair

Maybe like the island loops were planned to work in a more grounded fashion but they switched it for reset day and puzzle master ending?

[ripe berry]

let's just go back to not using grounded approaches unless there's significant evidence for it or Nikita directly worked on it (HN1, HNHS, HN3)

[ripe berry]

yeah maybe

[ripe berry]

the only bit we need to apply grounded approaches to in the Books is the Guest because we have no choice but to

[limber ridge]

Actually wait by pm Nikita still worked on the franchise

Well still

It doesn't mean Nikita necesarily had to approve everything

[ripe berry]

Nikita might've just went "this stuff's not getting covered in the games so I have no need to try to make this grounded"

[limber ridge]

Carly could still have done her own thing with Nikita contributing a little

[ripe berry]

but looking at it
Books and Games might just straight up still be one timeline since Nikita said they were pretty closely tied in October 2020 after everything was made

[ripe berry]

not just a little

plus

[limber ridge]

Nikita saying mayak explains it i think means they didn't try to make them fit 1:1.

[ripe berry]

(or well RD and RBD didn't release yet but they DID already exist and RBD had already been completely written)

[ripe berry]

which is because different mediums need certain changes to make a bit more sense as Alex has said

but the plan seemed to be Books and Games being one timeline with Mayak explaining the problems away

which Nikita already had in mind by February 2020

the only thing I don't think we've gotten Nikita to answer about the canonicity of explicitly is WtRB

[limber ridge]

Yeah

The closest thing we have is what part Nikita had in it

Which is basically not much more than just usual people, watched and gave feedback

[ripe berry]

I again say WtRB can still be used for answers where the games and books have blindspots (like coins, Franklin, etc)

[limber ridge]

Depending on season 3, the Guest somewhat

And some mayak things maybe

[ripe berry]

yeah

I feel the Mayak Reveals were moved from HN2 to WtRB

[limber ridge]

The Guest reveals too, didn't they

[ripe berry]

#hello-neighbor message

[ripe berry]

yeah, though there could be hints in HN2?

[limber ridge]

There could

But HN2 isn't gonna reveal the identity

Which AS basically does

[ripe berry]

I say as soon as we learn who the Guest is in WtRB we look for hints in HN2 we might've missed

[limber ridge]

Even then there's the fact that there's multiple Guests

Or there probably are multiple Guests

VR, HN3, Books, HN2

Now that i think about it all Guests are kinda short lived

HN2 is for HN2 and also should be in AS(possibly GN2?)

Books is in 2 books

[ripe berry]

Imagine something obvious has been staring us in the face his whole time and we've all missed it

now that I think about it
if there's only one Guest at a time GN2 occuring before HN2 Patch 9 is kinda a problem

because Patch 9 Guest is definitely AS Guest

but GN2 has Theodore take the mantle before then

[limber ridge]

second GN2 Guest is a metaphor

I mean that's a joke but is there other ways

Joke Because Pris actually sees it

And Regina too iirc?

[ripe berry]

but at the same time I don't wanna push GN2 into the future since it works way too well with being directly after HE

[limber ridge]

But then we see Teddy see the Guest

[ripe berry]

so the question becomes:
what's up with GN2's Double Guests

since this was also in development during the HN2 Alpha 1-1.5 development era

[limber ridge]

Okay now that i think about it, Pris/Regina seeing the Guest despite them not knowing him shouldn't be a problem If the guest is a metaphor

Because metaphors don't necesarily have to be seen/known of

[ripe berry]

it's like how the Thing exists for the Rescue Squad and Nicky despite not being real

[limber ridge]

It can just be a representation for whatever the guest is supposed to represent

[ripe berry]

and you can definitely tell GN2 was written in prime Yellow Press Era

[ripe berry]

my current Hello Neighbor Timeline:
Version of Petersons Stick Together
Bosco Bay
Bad Blood
Grave Mistakes
Puzzle Master
Missing Pieces + HNHS + HNS Launch Trailer
Waking Nightmare
Guidebook Forums Segment
Version of WtRB Ep. 3
Buried Secrets + HN1 Act 1
Version of WtRB Ep. 5
HNVR
Version of WtRB Ep. 6
HN2 DLCs
Version of WtRB Season 2
Version of WtRB Season 3
HN2 Base Game
LayoutV2
HN2 Patch 9
Hello Engineer
GN2
Hello Engineer Sandbox Mode
SN
HN1 Acts 2-Finale
HND
Reset Day
HN3

[alpine crystal]

Pretty sure HN2 takes place after act 2

[limber ridge]

Act 2 is a memory, so Mike put it there since the memory should take place after hn2

[alpine crystal]

Which mike? Hehehe

[limber ridge]

The... The... The one who made the timeline?

[alpine crystal]

I caused FNAF timeline

[silver vine]

wait, forest dweller is a different entity than the guest?

[safe charm]

Theres the symbol of the guest and than theres the Forest Dweller

The one running around town

That’s my theory

[limber ridge]

Most likely

There's this

And the reason i think that forest dweller is the fake one or the "Guest" is due to another thing

Nikita said this despite us seeing the guest in more than one promo art by that point

[wanton roost]

we got a new teaser #tinyclub-chat

[limber ridge]

Teasing us like that i see

[wanton roost]

ohhhhhh

mybad folk

[ripe berry]

a new tinyClub teaser eh?
Good for you all

[ripe berry]

to be fair we hadn't really seen Statue!Guest/Mascot!Guest yet I think

Statue Guest's Design first appeared in Prototype 2 which hadn't come out yet

before then (in Prototype 1) it was base Guest Design labelled "GodStatue" or whatever in the files

[eager island]

i mean that was actually just supports that forest dweller and the guest is different

because at that time the forest dweller was literally in center of keyart

[limber ridge]

Which is why i think that God!Guest is the Guest while the dweller is the "Guest"

[ripe berry]

and even then Statue!Guest's design was only the head and a white cloak in Prototype 2

[eager island]

while we have no idea about the guest design