lore-discussion

[dusty trench]

It’s interesting, they have AS design for Gerda.

[ripe berry]

or I think this image had a funny story where the poster for Aaron was traced
but the original art it came from also had traced parts to it

[limber ridge]

Wait hold on. Here's a prediction: The kids are gonna break in the GAAP, whether they start together or alone doesn't matter, but Finch and/or Trinity try to get photos of the cult, they fail by the end but notice this was one picture and use that.

[ripe berry]

(sry for low quality)

[ripe berry]

I think that's due to the bakery truck in that episode
maybe at one point Gerda was gonna be the one driving it

[dusty trench]

Maybe. I heard people talking about Gerda being in season 3. But I don’t remember if Alex talked about it.

It would be cool to see her drive that.

But I don’t know if it would make sense.

Maybe, she drove that truck in season 2.

[ripe berry]

now that I think about it Gerda's the only cultist in the show to have yet to be seen as an adult in-person without the Raven Costume on

[dusty trench]

We only seen her as a kid, but we have yet to see Keith.

[limber ridge]

I'm not sure we will even see Keith in AS

[dusty trench]

Yea

Likely not

Maybe a mention

[ripe berry]

like they have a model for her yet she hasn't appeared in-person

[dusty trench]

Or a pic

[limber ridge]

I mean he probably doesn't even play too much of a role, the main cult members are like Gerda, Valeria, Mayor and Leslie.

[ripe berry]

and even then I'd say Abanante, Mayor, and Leslie are the only important ones to the show atm

[limber ridge]

Probably.

[ripe berry]

Gerda might as well not exist with how little she's done

[limber ridge]

Well uhh

[dusty trench]

Except grouping them together

[limber ridge]

She knocked down Frank I guess?

[dusty trench]

Maybe they will show the missing poster.

[ripe berry]

fair

[limber ridge]

(they probably would have done that anyway but still)

[limber ridge]

Wouldn't it be really cool if the kids like sabotage Gerda or smth and make the rest of the cult think she's betraying them or smth?

And it like, causes paranoia between the group or whatever

[dusty trench]

That would actually be really cool

[limber ridge]

I mean it'd kinda make the cult look like idiots.

[dusty trench]

Which they are

[ripe berry]

would give her an actual role in the show outside of cameos

[limber ridge]

True. Just look at Leslie for example.

Bro just sleeps

[dusty trench]

They’re all just greedy delusional murderers who lost their soul.

[limber ridge]

Literally got saved by Trinity.

[dusty trench]

Even the portrayal and interactions between Gordon and Dale.

[ripe berry]

also- dude makes no comment about the Grave with an obvious Forest Protector logo on it despite being alone as far as he knew

[ripe berry]

it'd be peak if one of the cultists off-handedly mention them in the show

[dusty trench]

That would be really cool.

[limber ridge]

Guess his sunglasses (during night time btw) blocked his view huh?

[dusty trench]

I like these ideas

These can tie too

[limber ridge]

Leslie is just like officer Cornwell, feels more like a teenager pretending to be a cop than an actual cop.

[ripe berry]

like just have a cultist mention how a few of them got exposed in the past and they can't afford to have it happen again

[dusty trench]

And that’s one reason why Tavish goes away. To expand GA Corp.

[limber ridge]

That's how Nicky described Cornwell in the books(a female officer named Cornwell as opposed to Kornwell)

[limber ridge]

That'd be great.

[ripe berry]

the (C/K)ornwells act alike

[ripe berry]

and the HN2 Mayor must have at least partial ownership of the company to be able to have a Golden Apple Fountain built without being sued to oblivion

[limber ridge]

And also to be able to reopen the park.

[dusty trench]

Yes, adds onto him being previous vice mayor, or high ranking assistant.

A high ranking cultist.

Hence, these ideas.

Including these.

[limber ridge]

Is there one cult member in the show that is like some what consistently decently competent?

[dusty trench]

Valeria

[limber ridge]

True, she hasn't had as much slip ups

[dusty trench]

Could be a next step for them

[ripe berry]

now that I think about it
the investor's thing might explain what that guy was doing in AS Ep. 3 with the GAAP photo

the cult were trying to get other investors onboard with reopening the GAAP

[limber ridge]

Ooh

[dusty trench]

Exactly

[limber ridge]

That's what brought the residents or Raven Brooks tears

As is said on the article

[ripe berry]

and it aligns with what we determined of this article being around the same time as Nicky going missing

[dusty trench]

Yes

I didn’t even catch this one

[limber ridge]

The aging still is a bit of a problem.

Wait

[ripe berry]

(#lore-discussion message)

[limber ridge]

What if it's like some article being written in advance by someone who has experienced time loops and retained memories from them?

[ripe berry]

!

could explain why the articles are all out of order

[dusty trench]

That adds in a ton, even with the clack symbolism in HN2

[limber ridge]

Guess that'll be a good note to hop off for the night.

[ripe berry]

or wait
there's direct proof of this!

[dusty trench]

Quentin getting help on restoring time and the balance, Which I mentioned before

[ripe berry]

duplicate articles with slightly different wording

[dusty trench]

That was the puzzle master’s rearranging to leave the message.

Cult thought they can leave symbols in plain sight because they think everyone is just ignorant, but the puzzle master is caught on. And so is everyone else.

So puzzle masters rearranged it to spread the messages to truth.

[ripe berry]

one could be an attempt to recreate the other from memory
hence the changes in wording of the article (outside of what might be needed to hide a message)

[dusty trench]

We can even tie this to HE and other periods with other small details. Such as Mr. Peterson trespassing GAAP and stealing property and parts in HE, and in WN when Earth Pro came in to play. Showing more of the connections.

[ripe berry]

AS Episode 3 is right before the one where Nicky goes missing
so of course the Museum investment article would come out right around the time Nicky vanished if they were talking with the Investors not long beforehand

[dusty trench]

Exactly, ties straight to WN

[ripe berry]

the question is which one specifically let the messages
it can't be MitH/MJ

[dusty trench]

Norman

[ripe berry]

was about to say maybe Norman

since y'know

he's the only other one who has ties to the Newspaper industry

[dusty trench]

Me and Frigid talked on these newspapers before, you and Frigid tied it to much more.

[ripe berry]

and Norman also likely threw together the package and website for (presumably, if it's canon in-universe) Quentin

[dusty trench]

And you know with this now tying it to all of this stuff, including the Nicky trilogy and HE, we can figure out a time period for a ton of stuff and loops.

And ties more to this stuff happening earlier than we think. Hence, the car being planned since Nicky was there.

[ripe berry]

honestly I wish HN2 would've been continued because of all that's been pieced together here.

[ripe berry]

and we KNOW the Website can't be official
an official Raven Brooks Banner website probably wouldn't include articles written on notebook paper

[dusty trench]

Well, it can be a secret website meant for people like Quentin to find.

By the puzzle master.

[ripe berry]

exactly

also probably why the hidden THEYCROW tape exists

[dusty trench]

It’s crazy WN shows HE early on. Even the whole island stuff.

[dusty trench]

The tape ties to Mayak tech being connected to stuff all around town, including VHS tapes and TV broadcast systems, by manipulating that stuff. And the tape is all glitchy and broken. As you break the tape, you learned more of the truth if things start to unfold. Like how you slowly start to break the loops.

Hence, when we hit all the eye paintings in SN at Peterson’s house and the eyes close, all the power turns off.

We stopped all the light system, heating and AC function, Internet, and clock function in that area.

Yes directly to the Mayak evolution. Expanding even more, past Raven Brooks too. As we see with the loops and manipulating characters minds. And the fact that GA Corp. has been past Raven Brooks longer than we think. It’s just super popular in Raven Brooks, but cult is planning to expand that. And it makes sense for Tavish to do that, wow, the cultist in town do what they need to do in Raven Brooks.

[ripe berry]

yeah
they had some form of this idea planned for awhile

[dusty trench]

Exactly, and that shows a ton even for now.

Even the fact that Aaron is for some reason, surprised, Nicky has never had a golden apple or even know what it is, despite it being his first time in town.

[ripe berry]

and I mean, the first hints to time loops and stuff pop up only a book later

[dusty trench]

Well even in WN with a metaphorical portrayal within dreams, nightmares and other spiritual stuff being portrayed in a metaphorical way. And it seems something supernatural, but it ties directly to my explanation on other dream stuff like Trinity’s nightmares, and even HN1, and many many other stuff. Even times to other characters, their mindset, views being portrayed with them, and perspective.

[dusty trench]

Which this ties all the way to HN1 and H&S. There are billboards in the city in HN1, and H&S and one is to buy a shovel, and emphasizes shovel in Wayron Croobian. The other is of a black bird like a raven or crow getting fed bird food from the sky, in a nice bright cloudy setting with blue sky and green grass. But there are 3 trees in the background, 2 have red apple trees, and the middle one is a golden apple tree. And the sign says Kraw Food (in Wayron Croobian). The shovel shows death and tragedy in the world which tied to the Kraw billboard which shows the fortune in our world and how people seek to finding these fortunes (hence GA tree) and they get what they want. But this ties to cult and their greed, manipulating the nature and environment to get what they want from the higher forces of the world, or what they see to be the higher forces. Aka just manipulating the power of nature, life, and the universe to benefit them and them only. Hence, bird food coming from the sky. This can tie to the symbols in town cult worships over, and these can show GA Corp. being active even outside of town, and earlier than we thought. Even the shovel I feel can tie to things being sold such as Hello-Copter, and even Shark-o-tron being a sort of branding thing that is even on Nicky’s shirt which I’ve mentioned before. Different advanced security systems being sold, and other items too that are owned by GA Corp., which they can own the Shark-o-trons and Hello-Copters. And even this shovel add, as GA Corp. does a ton more stuff and owns a crazy amount of stuff like basically RB’s, and they may be bigger than we think. Which RB’s is voted fourth most happiest town in the district (from guidebook), it seems the town is very known to some degree. It’s known to be “happy” and try to hide the true dangerous nature of the place. And this fits the fact of the town being quiet, closed in, kinda unknown (except for it being known for its lake, architecture, and beautiful scenery as town).

[dusty trench]

And places that are considered to be really happy or safe, are also known for having high cost and being really expensive to live in. Which, Raven Brooks has a ton of more wealthy and rich people, is super quiet and closed in, has beautiful scenery and is pretty fancy, mostly unknown for a lot of of the true nature of the town, and a lot of big names are there such as Mr. Peterson a theme park engineer design designer, Roger and Adele, famous meteorologist, and the golden apple company. This also ties to the Mayak tech playing with people’s minds even expanding to the world so that people don’t know the true nature of the town. But tales outside of town slowly start to spread and more people start to uncover the truth. Even the outskirts of Raven Brooks, which is like the trenched area of the town, is mostly hidden from the public, but slowly overtime, the true dangers of the town start to rise because more people discover the outskirts. Hence, getting closer to Mayak, and can stop the true power of Mayak, like breaking the loops. And knowing that the town is pretty rich, they can use that power of their wealth and fortune to get away with a ton of stuff and hide it from the public media. We see stuff like that happen in the real world, and even stuff like that happening right now even with a ton of company’s. A ton of powerful and influential people and corporations using their power and fortune to manipulate others with different corporate strats for their own benefit, which can be good or bad, depending on how you use your power. Corporations and people even being associated with masses that have a lot of influential power. But instead trying use that power to make other’s not have power, and only themselves have power. I’ve talked more on this in the past. Even stuff, such as HE and HN2 tie into this and the books again, like the inventors clubs in books and HE, and in HE the state inventors club contest.

[dusty trench]

Which, we know is associated with GA Corp. because of the books, AS, and even HND, SN, and HE can show that, HN2 shows too. So what if, GA Corp. Is running and funding inventors clubs, not just in RB’s. Even in my HN2 analysis when I talked about the tree, you see a ton of the inventors club stuff Nicky and Aaron’s prank stuff and other stuff at the rescue squad had. And hints of Nikki wanting to be an engineer, which we learn in the books. Which Nicky portraying GA Corp. Can show that too. Since he is aware of how big the corporation is, especially as an adult they have gotten bigger. And this can tied to the island and plane stuff, even the boats, the sea, and sailing as well as all that ancient stuff and hints of the towns history in HN2. Even the book representation like the symbols on the museum and library books, even the gear stuff and time. And in H&S there is a ton of clock symbolism which can tie to the future elaboration we have now on the loops and Mayaks influence. Even HN1 city there is a giant clock on a building, and even other design that is very noticeable of satellites, and such, which is common for a city, but it can also show for what we have now of Mayak influencing all around even past Ravenbrook to the cities. That could even add on with the GA Corp. signs. Which going back to the shovel sign I feel like I can elaborate on more. As I already did, but it cannot only show death, but even the fact that around the shovel is like a golden glowing spark all around it, it can also show digging deep to the core secrets of the world and gaining fortune from that. Which again like before can tie more to gaining fortune from that the Kraw sign. Even the city wallpapers in stage one and stage two of H&S are interesting too, as I’ve talked about the stages and many symbolisms in them telling a tail that slowly unfolding that ties through the whole story, if you look at the wallpapers in these two stages like even I stage four and five.

You see dark clouds, and ravens all around in a city environment. Which I talked about the wallpapers a ton, but it even adds onto this discussion. Showing GA Corp. expanding more, and the Mayak influence. Slowly just bringing tragedy not just to the town, but more tragedy to the outside media and cities.

And I have my embeds back, so I will send a few images, but I will try not to do so much to where it’s considered spam.

[ripe berry]

wait hold on... feels familiar
3 Apple Trees, one Golden...
3 Apples, one Golden...

[dusty trench]

Which only using evidence from games and older ideas, found it to be relating to Lisa and Franklin. And other stuff to Roger and Adele.

even evidence from the books can tie too.

[ripe berry]

and actually one of the trees has more orange-like apples if this image is anything to go by just like the tree in the drawing

[dusty trench]

Which adds on even more.

[ripe berry]

yeah the buildings in the city definitely are NOT normal

wait
one of them has a faceless (not sure if that's the right term) clock on it.

[dusty trench]

It’s like trying to get Mayak in easier. Even with the whole Raven Brooks homeowners association thing, and even GA engineers and invention stuff, it ties to the corporation being way bigger than we think. Which mod kit can show the meta idea view, including SN map maker, and HE stuff.

[dusty trench]

Hmm

[ripe berry]

there's also a green building which seems to supply power to a good chunk of the city (visible through the bathroom window in the apartment)

wonder if there's anything relevant there or nott

[dusty trench]

Having Mayak attract to it even more. If not, containing some stuff.

[ripe berry]

one of the buildings through the bathroom window also seems to have a sideways billboard (the Crow Food/Rawk Doof one to be specific)

[dusty trench]

Spreading it even more for every body in every view of where ever your at.

[ripe berry]

you can also see another building with two satelite dishes through the back window

why do so many buildings in the city have two?

[dusty trench]

Having the tech be more visible to different places and views, and intern a man manipulate a lot of technology Internet heating systems and such.

Even the water towers can tie.

[ripe berry]

and they ALL point in the same direction it seems

[dusty trench]

Targeting Nicky

I feel like it would be targeting every building because that makes sense. But in this case, it’s targeting Nicky.

Like there’s many many signs, satellites, clocks, and such at target different building buildings and areas, this case it’s Nicky.

[ripe berry]

actually wait no
the one in the back window points towards this one
and there's another one pointing the same direction (not at Nicky's apartment, the same exact direction as this one)

possibly pointing to RB instead?

[dusty trench]

But that shows even more. There’s just different satellites and even billboard signs and clocks at target different areas in vicinity’s, this case the stuff is in Nicky’s. But all of it has one source and mainly targets where the source of powers from. Raven Brooks.

[versed yacht]

idk what we're talking about but i was scrolling through chat and saw this so i wanted to point it out

[ripe berry]

he's here and always watching

[dusty trench]

Talkin lore

[ripe berry]

discussing any potential lore that can be gained about the city in HN1

[versed yacht]

i opened the actual texture and yeah i don't think thats mith

[ripe berry]

there is one satellite dish that doesn't make sense for this though. there's one visible through the kitchen window that seems to just be pointing at the ground (or where you'd assume the ground to be)

[ripe berry]

going back to this for just a second
if in HNVR the faceless clocks are a hint to time loops
...
you can see where this leads

[dusty trench]

Speaking of very, NOT normal buildings. Mr. Peterson’s. Which yes, is obviously not normal. But there’s one thing that I barely hear people talking about and it’s always been in mind for so long. The windmill. With stuff like the space satellite crashing down, the error world, and many stuff elaborated on now like Mr. Peterson’s experiments. The windmill is also an experiment, and he is using his house for that. Kinda like what Otto Kanander was doing with his house.

[dusty trench]

This shows even more on what I said. The main place of the tech comes from Raven Brooks and the Mayak tech is expanding, they can take that power and put it in the city and also have Mayak attract power to the city, and satellites and stuff can point at different places and area areas of the city for to be manipulated with.

[dusty trench]

Lead me

[ripe berry]

the city also gets impacted by the time loops in Raven Brooks

[dusty trench]

It can represent someone may be a puzzle master being illuminated with more knowledge on the dark truth. And they are always trying to work behind the scene to break this.

[dusty trench]

Exactly what I was alluding to.

[dusty trench]

And not even just the loops, but Mayak is a whole.

[ripe berry]

remember
technology is... different... in the world of HN

[dusty trench]

Very advanced

Because of what?

Mayak

That’s what I’ve been trying to allude to with the Mayak evolution.

[ripe berry]

I think the exact quote was "Technology works different in HN universe" or smth like that

[dusty trench]

Yea I think so too

[dusty trench]

Sure, you have your regular technology and other stuff. But with GA Corp. being all around, why not use advanced Mayak tech.

tragedies in Raven Brooks really are the fuel to the company and them having more power and control over others and the environment, on a bigger scale.

Hence, the RB’s social media and many stuff closing it all in. The memory loss, manipulation of life and the environment. All a fuel to a bigger scale.

Adds onto what I said about Tavish expanding the company even more. Maybe even Gordon too. And maybe Tavish and or Gordon died in that process, but you see it still stands. For all the wrong reasons. Even the Earth pro stuff, the museum, and how the town is seen in the mass media as years go by.

[ripe berry]

in the end, even Raven Brooks itself couldn't escape the tragedy and cover-ups that occurred there.

the town itself another victim of the events that happened there

[dusty trench]

And Mayak, as it’s been growing.

[ripe berry]

jumping back to here rq
isn't one of the Golden Apple Seeds found under the Water Tower on some rocks?

[dusty trench]

Yes

Wait

Hold on

[ripe berry]

there also is a random tree out of bounds with a Golden Apple on it in Act 3

[ripe berry]

ok
the rock pile is a bit further away then I remember from the water tower
it's also fenced off on three sides

[dusty trench]

Okay that’s why I said hold on

[ripe berry]

there could be multiple but this is the only one I know

[dusty trench]

The water tower in HN1 and H&S having the pipe to underground while normal can be used as an idea for hinting at The Well. I even tied the fountain and that puzzle and area in HN2 and HE to the well being in those games.

[ripe berry]

iirc some of those rocks also appear as part of an unknown incident behind spawn in Act 1

(thanks Russian Fandom Wiki for the image)

[dusty trench]

Hurricane

Like even pits in HE and hurricane warnings in SN, even reset day hurricane.

[ripe berry]

there's also a gas station near here in Act 1 that's missing from Acts 2 and 3

[dusty trench]

Because it was taken up by hurricane

Even the boat and lake in HN1 ties to HN2 sea and water stuff.

Which, can tie to the well and towns history.

The water towers in the city are connected to this too.

[keen basin]

btw whats GAAP again?

[dusty trench]

Golden Apple Amusement Park

[keen basin]

ahhh

I should really get to reading Reset Day so I can understand the time loop stuff, ohhh actually the ending to puzzle master makes some more sense if the next book is Reset Day

[dusty trench]

( continuation) Even the amusement park stuff of the house which obviously show Mr. Peterson being engineer, or all shows with the windmill he is using park parts for his experiments.

[dusty trench]

Not chronologically but it did release after.

[keen basin]

yeah I just mean its makes sense for the book to end in such a "what the hell does this mean" way when the next book can start to explain it

[dusty trench]

Yea

[keen basin]

Although does it mean that that final message to trust Narf didn't really work out?

[dusty trench]

It did

But Aaron was willing to risk his own life.

[keen basin]

whats that mean?

[dusty trench]

#lore-discussion message read all these streak of text.

[ripe berry]

also another random thing that could be relevant
one of the walls of the highschool in HN1 says "Luck You" and we know how luck is with HN

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[keen basin]

god that was a lot of reading

but uh yeah okay

I would proly understand the time stuff better if I read reset day but that makes enough sense

okay wait so is the correct way that time is supposed to happen basically just what happens in the games?

[dusty trench]

Good detail, forgot bout that

[ripe berry]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[dusty trench]

Wdym by that?

[keen basin]

getting too act I guess

3

act 3

[dusty trench]

Breaking the loops and Mayak control so the events can unfold. Not everything will be perfect but at least the balance will be restored.

[keen basin]

so events unfolding is like Nicky getting kidnapped but then getting free and HN2 hapening then Nicky coming back and basically just what happens

and the loop stops this

[ripe berry]

and then Theodore and the others ensure everything happens as it should to the best of their abilities (and Theodore goes insane due to this)

[dusty trench]

The loops and other stuff can cause the Mayak to destroy everything, and not everything will be perfect. But atleast the balance will be restored and characters minds don’t have to be played with. And the outcome won’t be perfect, because not everything is gonna happen the way characters want. They didn’t want Mr. Peterson to kidnap him or for innocents to die, but it wasn’t their fault.

Mr. Peterson betrayed them way early on, and slowly went insane.

[keen basin]

so do they like all know about the loop?

if they are trying to break it

[ripe berry]

yes

[dusty trench]

Puzzle masters yes, and they help other characters try and remember what happened and understand so they can be guided to freedom.

[ripe berry]

*name unofficial, using the term from the book of the same name for ease of reference

[keen basin]

are there specific people that are puzzle masters

[dusty trench]

Marcia Tillman, Norman Darby, Jay Roth, Ike Gershowitz, Missing Journalist, MITH, Archivist, Rita, Beatrix, Quentin becomes one, Miguel Esposito, Enzo becomes one too.

[keen basin]

so like through the story of the books and what not, are they just like, going through the motions? full Groundhog Day style

[ripe berry]

(Missing Journalist and MitH are likely the same person but it's technically unconfirmed)

[dusty trench]

That’s why I put them right next to each other.

[dusty trench]

Well they are just trying to set things back to freedom. Since what characters are doing can destroy everything, and they are using power to take away other’s freedom for their own manipulation. But they can’t get too caught up in the open because one little mistake can ruin everything. So they must be careful.

[keen basin]

so they do actively know what's going to happen as they are acting like everything is normal?

[dusty trench]

They try to prevent it, but some stuff ends up happening because of Mayak being tampered with and such.

In the end characters like Nicky gain more knowledge on stuff and learn to be more powerful than his fears. And characters are more free to live their lives.

Like it’s hard for them to get to Aaron, Mya, and Diane more because Mr. Peterson is close to them.

Mr. Peterson every time something happens that goes his way, he gets super excited and feels like he is going to get to his dream reality. But he lets fake reality make him more ignorant and not pay attention to reality, so he suffers again.

[ripe berry]

and overtime that drives him insane

[keen basin]

was this what Ike and Peterson's convo was about in the first Arron trilogy book(?) I think it was the first book, the one where Ike is like "it's just like last time" or whatever

or was that just talking about the grandparents

[dusty trench]

Grandparents and their past, but loops can be part of it.

[keen basin]

that was mainly when he fixed the luck device right

[dusty trench]

Also in HE ending when he traps kids in their own loop transporting them somewhere.

[keen basin]

whats the whole fake reality thing?

[dusty trench]

Mr. Peterson as an example wishes that he would live in a reality where nothing went wrong, no mistakes were made, and it’s all under his control. But he needs to realize reality.

[keen basin]

ahh

I mean, if Arron hadn't done the final plan to expose the cult and had the luck device stolen would things have not turned out good? because things started working out with the guys from Germany leaving and the house being fine

[dusty trench]

But Theo should’ve known and paid attention to his son.

That’s what I mean by he was blinded. So he turned it all on his son trying to run away from his mistake.

[keen basin]

The moral of the story is have good communication

I do remember feeling so annoyed because things could have been so much easier if Peterson just accepted that Arron was competent and had a part in everything

and he knew that Arron knew

[dusty trench]

That Aaron knew what?

[keen basin]

Anything

the cult

the devices

[dusty trench]

Theo felt if he told his family the truth, they would go away. Because he knows that why he’s starting to do is wrong and can cause horrible things, but he proceeded out of fear.

He didn’t want to become the way he became, but his mind was tricked to being driven to that path. And he is now destructive.

[keen basin]

I did love in the big finale of puzzle master when Petersen and Arron could have a moment of being on the same page and just being able to talk, especially after a whole 3 books of them tip toying around just talking about it

for a second I thought maybe this could lead to them being more open and working together, then I remembered it was a prequal

and he was just going to go more insane

[dusty trench]

It’s truly tragic art

[keen basin]

and him actually feeling bad for what he said to Maritza

cause again, he was going insane

[dusty trench]

He knew that it was all going to happen again, and he was not in his right mind.

[keen basin]

I was very annoyed by Enzo in the last book

like I understood why he was turning on Aaron

but it was just annoying to watch

[dusty trench]

Even with the way Nicky vented to Enzo like we get it, but understanding Nicky’s view aswell is just tragic.

[keen basin]

I do find it funny that the rescue squad are 2 for 2 on getting really mad and turning on a friend, then that friend getting put in the basement

But it made more sense when it happened to Nicky

Peterson was good at framing him

[dusty trench]

They redeem later on and are forgiven, and they face what they experienced. Both being trapped in the same moments over again.

[dusty trench]

Aaron tho makes sense but I know wym. Mr. Peterson has good strats and he could use that power like Guest and cult if he wanted too. But what would that gain.

[keen basin]

Aaron felt like more of an emotional reaction than Nicky's was. Like it was kinda plausible Nicky would be doing the things he was framed for so there was evidence. But with Aaron they were just kinda done after Lucy died

which was the cults fault too right?

[dusty trench]

Cults fault yes, but also Mr. Peterson by not keeping track, and his experiments. Since if he felt he has all that control, he was put to the test, himself.

[keen basin]

am I right in assuming the cult's luck was supposed to make Mya die but Arron stealing the luck device made it be Lucy?

[dusty trench]

Yea that sounds, tragically accurate.

Aaron wouldn’t know

And either way, Mr. Peterson lost

[keen basin]

I think if they knew that what happened was the cult's doing Enzo and the rest wouldn't turn on Aaron

they would proly have worked harder to defeat the cult together

at least I would think

[dusty trench]

Yea

or something would happen that would drive them away more. Like their own fear.

[keen basin]

yeah right because Enzo put basically all the blame on Peterson

and Aaron in a weird way because of it

[dusty trench]

Mr. Peterson is understandable, and for Aaron it’s mainly cause Aaron wasn’t being honest on how he felt on the whole thing with his father.

[keen basin]

yeah Aaron is still at fault for hiding information a lot, like bro you are all fighting a cult made up of the most powerful people in town, who also have the concept of luck as a power. now is not the time to hide things

of course its harder because it all relates to Aaron's family

[dusty trench]

Then again, he is a child who lives in all this with someone like his father. Tried to protect his son and family in interesting ways.

[keen basin]

I came out of reading puzzle master with the opinion that Peterson in that trilogy was a good guy, just one who happened to be going insane (which would have maybe been helped if he didn't go the route he tried), and made some stupid choices

like just at the start when Ike went missing and he took the wallet if he just brought Aaron in then things could have gone so much better

He already knew that Aaron was digging into the cult and wasn't going to stop

and he knew that Aaron could tell he took the wallet

[dusty trench]

I don’t think things would’ve went better overall. Because he is still taking away other others freedom for his own.

He fell straight into victim of the destructive symbol’s. Guest being example.

[keen basin]

I'm thinking maybe he completes the luck device it makes all the stuff for them personally to go fine, then Aaron can get him to use it to take down the cult

of course things could start getting weird when you use a luck device against someone who also has a luck device

balance or whatever could get mega messed with

[dusty trench]

He would have to keep using that stuff, and he could destroy all of them, even himself.

He doesn’t have intentions like the cult, but what he’s doing can still take things up at a high risk.

[keen basin]

The reset day story is unfinished right?

its supposed be a trilogy too right

[dusty trench]

Yes

[keen basin]

Alex said that it could continue after the movie right?

[dusty trench]

Might

[keen basin]

or book projects in general

[dusty trench]

Both

He really wants to

[keen basin]

will HN3 come out before the movie most likely?

[dusty trench]

Very Likely yes

[keen basin]

I'm just thinking like the books and especially what would be the continuation to reset day, and HN3 are proly going to be the most lore heavy stuff, or I would hope

oh well there is season 3

the show is very directly doing stuff with mayak

[dusty trench]

It’s been in our faces the whole time

S3 is a thing already, but we gotta figure it out.

S3 is just going to make some stuff a little more clear.

Like Guest concept and some Mayak meaning.

AFK for now

[keen basin]

I just mean like its a active part of the story, or at least was with the flashback. like in most things it feels like its a very important part of everything but its a background thing to be theorized about. In the flashback it actually directly does something

[dusty trench]

What flashback are you referring too? Franklin?

[keen basin]

yeah

[dusty trench]

I feel like we are missing something from that flashback.

[dusty trench]

And also, we see a ton more of this stuff even games like HN2, even other games can tell us this like HE directly tying to HN2, and other media aswell.

just they want to make it more streamlined and clear with AS and other stuff like HN3 because of stuff that has happened before.

[keen basin]

okay my hope for the Reset day trilogy that is not supported by any facts or evidence and this is purely just what I want for fanservice, is that at the end or some point in a third book have Nicky comes back to Raven brooks and is part of the story, could just be a thing that ends it off.

[ripe berry]

Image I cobbled together to represent the Puzzle Masters (+ Historian HN3 bc if anyone in HN3 is part of the group it'd be her)
(and both a version where MitH and MJ are different and a version where they're the same)

[keen basin]

if MITH and MJ are the same person he really slimmed down

[ripe berry]

just realized the quality of the images are horrible so I fixed that for the version where MJ = MitH

albeit you can now more clearly see how bad my attempt to remove backgrounds from some of the images are

[dusty trench]

Yes I should’ve mentioned her

And Piper and Delia’s dad ( Mr. Tillman Marcia’s brother) is one too.

[ripe berry]

I would've put him in if I had an image to represent them but I don't so yeah

[dusty trench]

Yea

[dusty trench]

Who is shadow Quentin?

[ripe berry]

from left to right
MitH, Quentin, Historian, Norman Darby (blacked out Quentin Render), Rita Ryland (no image so uses the communicator someone named Rita speaks through at some point in the AS Pilot, Jay Roth, Marcia Tillman, Ike Gershowitz, Missing Journalist (in the version with him), Enzo Esposito, Beatrix, Archivist, Miguel Esposito

[ripe berry]

Norman
(no image but since he's described similar to Quentin in terms of clothing I used a Quentin render to represent him)

[dusty trench]

Aahhh I see

[keen basin]

so like with ones like Jay Roth how do we know?

[ripe berry]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/15H6d6o9x9KPWlWkfTHauWoY91CS6ow3Ay49r169X7NY/edit?usp=drivesdk

[keen basin]

you have no idea how long I have been waiting for an organized google doc with images instead of a wall of text

no offence Dark

[dusty trench]

Your good

[ripe berry]

sry but even this one doesn't really have many images
(thank GavinTheKing (wiki mod) for making the document I shared)

[keen basin]

still any formatting makes it more digestible

ohhhhhh the friend group

I see

that makes sense

btw having the quotes as direct evidence right there is so helpful

[ripe berry]

I will note that the document is slightly outdated
Theodore's birthdate has been shifted back 2 years to 1943
but it doesn't impact the time frame part of the document all that much.

[keen basin]

oh so the cult had just fizzled out by the Nicky Trilogy?

more or less

[ripe berry]

or is assumed to because a few of them got arrested

[keen basin]

I was wondering why they never came up

[ripe berry]

(if anything it makes things align more perfectly because now Theodore leaves town the same year Norman disappears)

[keen basin]

"Just as I round the corner, my toe catches a stray ball that’s been abandoned in the middle of the street. Its hard, rainbow-striped shell actually hurts as I connect with it. It’s a moment that feels oddly familiar." okay bro "a moment that feels oddly familiar" "I bend to pick it up because that’s what I’m supposed to do. It’s like the entire play has been written for me."

I did catch these when I first read it

but I guess I just assumed they were references

and they proly would be if there wasn't the context of time shenanigans

I might as well ask, any other docs or something like this one?

I immediately understood more from this than anything else

[dusty trench]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1AcAI9lMucsQW_4F-20n6OdBkCnRdKZ0Ku4qTB6kpi20/edit?usp=drivesdk

[ripe berry]

sorry but no

other then that

(which is outdated and purposefully ignores the AS)

that's just a general lore document though instead of one for theories and stuff

[dusty trench]

Yea but it’s just a basic beginning of stuff.

I don’t like how it ignores that stuff but it works as a basic introduction of outline, and AS so happens to tie directly to that (not realized at that time period by doc creator lol).

[keen basin]

hold up is what this says about Reset day really the bulk of that book?

[dusty trench]

It doesn’t go into deep detail on certain things, but it does go over a basic outline of plot stuff.

The book itself has more to elaborate on.

[keen basin]

I mean I guess it is the first book of what is supposed to be a trilogy

[dusty trench]

Yea

Ay Mike is cooking

[ripe berry]

or well
to be more specific on that bit
Theodore, Norman, and Jay Roth clearly have knowledge on the time loop stuff
Rita Ryland recommended Norman to the Banner anonymously, indicating they're friends and therefore likely knows
Norman entrusted some of his knowledge to Ike, so Ike likely knows
Jay and Miguel are friends so Miguel likely learns at some point
Marcia Tillman proves she has knowledge in Reset Day

[keen basin]

gonna be heat

[ripe berry]

(just clarification for something not fully explained by Stage Play Theory)

[keen basin]

thats what I assumed

they trust each other so they tell each other

thats pretty much it

[dusty trench]

Jay maybe met Theo at age 19 or 20 sum

[ripe berry]

also the document is wrong about Hello Engineer's placement and ending to a degree
when it was made Hello Engineer being between Acts 1 and 2 was the consensus, but I'd say after HN2 makes more sense

[keen basin]

oh really?

[ripe berry]

Enzo also likely had knowledge before the Guest kidnapped him because he signed someone into RB without permission during seismic testing

[ripe berry]

yeah

[dusty trench]

Mikes Visual

This one is deeper

[ripe berry]

(note: I no longer think RD is before Act 3, it came about from me misremembering the ending of Puzzle Master)

[dusty trench]

lol I didn’t even realize you said that

Mike do you have the other one you made?

[keen basin]

would be helpful if this thing had a uhh, the thing maps have that tell you what the symbols mean

[ripe berry]

not right now sry

[dusty trench]

Yea

[dusty trench]

It’s fine

[keen basin]

so when it comes to HE, if it's considered canon in the way I didn't realize it was... is the game actually happening?

like the gameplay

[ripe berry]

yes and no

think of it like the Stages in HNHS

[keen basin]

imagination? I can't say that without thinking of the SpongeBob meme anymore

[dusty trench]

Except a little more accurate, just the car stuff and the exaggerated courses.

[ripe berry]

yeah, but it still is based off reality

[keen basin]

all I have really seen from HE is the final boss

whats that uuhhh

bases on

in reality

[dusty trench]

ON reality

But not literal

[ripe berry]

there are cutscenes that just show reality

[dusty trench]

We see spider and where the boss came from in the cutscene of that acts intro

[ripe berry]

(intro, transitions between (for lack of a better term) worlds, ending, Sandbox Mode Ending)

[keen basin]

the one where they fly off in a rocket?

[dusty trench]

Rocket ride

[ripe berry]

it's hard to explain but yeah somehow that is canon

[dusty trench]

We see rocket ride in HN2 GAAP map

I talked about this map before

And why it’s important

Mayak is even in the map

[keen basin]

is that the fence looking path?

[dusty trench]

Which one

[keen basin]

on the bottom

wait where is this?

the map

[dusty trench]

GAAP

[keen basin]

no in game

[dusty trench]

Museum

[keen basin]

ooohh

[dusty trench]

There’s 2 of these maps on desk

It ties directly to HE

In terms of events

[keen basin]

HE basicly just ends with them in a loop right?

[dusty trench]

Not really, they escape

They escape the sandbox which combines the park is the main portrayal of places in RB’s.

S3 is gonna show this stuff differently.

For AS view.

Idk how but from what we seen, it’s obvious

[keen basin]

okay so whats happening in HE, I just watched the cutscenes again and its like they go there for parts or something then deal with the neighbor there?

then he puts them in the loop somehow

[dusty trench]

Which vid?

[keen basin]

I just searched hello engineer all cutscenes and watched the first 2 vids

[dusty trench]

https://youtu.be/8Wph5Kk9AUE?si=eW0M_f6LHEu4BRMx

[keen basin]

oh and that one

so the rocket just represents them escaping?

[dusty trench]

Yea, they escape to the future events.

Not being stuck in events of the past.

[keen basin]

is this presumably the farthest in the timeline we see them? not counting books

[limber ridge]

Nicky came back by that point(Reset day is in 2021, act 3 in 2017)

[dusty trench]

Kinda, but HN1 kinda shows more

[keen basin]

huh?

[keen basin]

im going to cope and ignore this fact and pretend it's just different in the books

[dusty trench]

Nicky being freed to the future events the whole Aaron thing and the other rooms. S&R shows too but portraying past, and even HE like with Enzo. HN2 treehouse kinda aswell.

[keen basin]

other rooms and aaron thing?

[limber ridge]

Also had something the Guest wanted apparently.

[limber ridge]

Fair.

The books already have inconsistentencies so that's quite reasonable.

[dusty trench]

Other rooms in basement showing Nicky’s friends and even the whole underground park thing. Even Nicky freeing Aaron portrayed in Act finale, and even the background house in game showing puzzle masters. And Act 2 Nicky is constantly in his head on being trapped in basement, but Aaron interrupts and frees Nicky from this nightmare. And even the act finale thing with knocking down Theo with different things that kinda show the rescue squad.

There’s really more in S&R and HE

And SN has hints

[keen basin]

I actually don't think I ever looked around the basement, I was always scared and just cheesed the generator

unless you mean the one in act 3

which would make more sense

[dusty trench]

All acts

Act 3 and finale mainly

[keen basin]

puzzle master background house?

[keen basin]

ohhh that house

I did find that house while exploring the map a bit ago

how is it connected to puzzle masters?

[dusty trench]

Hat, car, binoculars, this being most decorated, behind Theo’s house, like how MITH was spying on Mr. Peterson in SN.

[keen basin]

cool

[dusty trench]

Even HN1 had an idea on spy elements.

[keen basin]

I really wonder what HN3 will reveal

especially with it being so far in the future

[dusty trench]

Newspapers, paintings, museum and the environment, characters, Easter eggs.

And such stuff like that can reveal stuff.

Even different outcomes can show different things and how stuff can play out.

Kinda like Shadow The Hedgehog

[keen basin]

lmao

was not expecting a shadow the hedgehog mention

[dusty trench]

lol

[keen basin]

btw I love how cartoonishly evil Peterson is in HE

he is literally going to twirl his mustache

[dusty trench]

Bro is literally Eggman

[dusty trench]

And you can still see the tragedy unfold too

[keen basin]

HN is secretly a sonic fanfic

[dusty trench]

No it’s the canon sonic lore

[keen basin]

it just is Sonic actually

[dusty trench]

Who fits the most as Sonic in HN

💀

Imbir maybe lol

[keen basin]

who's Big the Cat

[dusty trench]

Ooh

Maybe one of the cats in HN2 credits

Wait, Quentin?

Nahh

I’m thinking mostly in character

Okay what is happening ✌️🥀

[keen basin]

Sonic

and how it will lead to the secrets of the mayak being revealed

[dusty trench]

Who did it?

A SECRET NEIGHBOR

…

[keen basin]

art

[dusty trench]

Art the clown?!

He killed Sonic

NOOOOOO

Art the clown was the secret neighbor

Art the clown is a cultist

[dense raven]

On the topic

Can we talk about how HN is pretty much just a Spooky Month retake

You see it right

[limber ridge]

Smith's in spooky month???

[dusty trench]

That is actually crazy to think about.

Wait

What if MITH is a drug dealer

lol

[dusty trench]

Except HN is older

But yea

[limber ridge]

So spooky month is the rip off? Yay!

/j

[dusty trench]

Nah lol

[dusty trench]

Wait, what if MITH is willing to commit crimes to get to the further goal of stopping the Mayak power like the loops and restoring balance. As all the higher-ups of Raven Brooks and such like some of the police, and even the mayor of town are all cultist. Also that GA Corp. is even outside of town and doing stuff too. And MITH is hiding around in the background and such, and he isn’t actually trying to cause harm, but he is willing to take a risk for the better of the world. This ties to stage 2 of H&S, elaborated in this paragraph #lore-discussion message

[limber ridge]

That'd kinda seperate him from the puzzle masters a lot and it would actually be pretty peak.

[dusty trench]

Not saying he is a drug lord

[limber ridge]

Makes him feel quite special.

[limber ridge]

Lol. Drugs wouldn't even help stop the mayak now would they?

[dusty trench]

I mean I seen it as more like, he knows what’s right for the world and he is willing to take risk to getting there.

[stoic juniper]

So he is a good guy

?

[limber ridge]

Anti-something would fit most I think.

[stoic juniper]

True

[limber ridge]

Anti-villain, anti-hero, something like that

[dusty trench]

Anti hero

[stoic juniper]

Neutral

[limber ridge]

Probably closer to an anti-hero

[stoic juniper]

Yeah maybe

Flying birds

[limber ridge]

Yeah I think an anti-hero is someone that does some bad stuff as long as it helps achieve a good goal.

[stoic juniper]

Are Ravens

[dusty trench]

Exactly

[stoic juniper]

Yes

[limber ridge]

Anti-villain villain is someone that does some good stuff but still to achieve an evil goal.

[dusty trench]

Well, they don’t mean harmed by making those risk and choices.

[limber ridge]

So anti-hero is better.

[dusty trench]

Not really

At least I don’t think

Cousin anti-hero doesn’t mean to make bad choices per se

[limber ridge]

Oh they have bad qualities but want a good goal I think works better(for an anti-hero)

[dusty trench]

Yea

[limber ridge]

And then the opposite for an anti-villain? Good qualities but overall bad goal?

[dusty trench]

Like Shadow

[limber ridge]

Is this more accurate?

[dusty trench]

I’m not really sure

Idk

I watched a vid on anti villains vs anti heroes

I don’t really remember tho

[limber ridge]

Huh

So they can have good motives as well

I'm confused now.

Anti-heroes are a lot more simple than anti-villains I guess.

Anti-villain is a more lightened villain I think?

And anti-hero a darker hero

Idk according to this article I'm reading a tragic villain would count as an anti-hero

Which doesn't exactly feel right.

[dusty trench]

Yea that inaccurate

[limber ridge]

Uhh I'll just go back to square one and pretend anti-villains don't exist.

You're either a hero, villain or anti-hero.

[limber ridge]

Or wait.

[dusty trench]

Anti-villian is kinda like, Mr. Peterson

[limber ridge]

Anti-villain is a flexible term at this point.

(react to the message above with an upvote and a facepalm)

[dusty trench]

Wait what is happening

[limber ridge]

We'll recreate this

[dusty trench]

Oh

[limber ridge]

Lol

[dusty trench]

Wait but Mr. Peterson is an anti-villian

[limber ridge]

Maybe.

[stoic juniper]

Hmmmm

[limber ridge]

I can't really say because I'm confused on what an anti-villain even is

[dusty trench]

An anti villain is a character who strives for justice and or what they believe is peace, but in a misguided way.

[limber ridge]

Isn't that like, an anti-hero?

[dusty trench]

An anti hero is more like someone lacking traditional heroic qualities.

Wait

I’m stuck

Yeah no I’m on track

[limber ridge]

So anti-villain is more about actions, anti-hero more about just state.

If I am getting it.

Like both is "bad until good" but one does bad until good is achieved, one has bad qualities.

Is this correct?

[dusty trench]

Wait no I’m just, bad at explaining

An anti villian has good intentions but goes about achieving them in a poor way.

[limber ridge]

Oh I think I understand.

[dusty trench]

And an anti hero is a character who lacks qualities of a traditional hero like morality, courage, and can embody behaviors expected in a villain but they aren’t one.

Some anti villains can be evil tho, but has a reasonable amount of understanding on character. Someone who isn’t fully corrupted by evil, but are still evil. Or they become evil.

[limber ridge]

Oh.

So basically all non-pure evil villains are anti-villains?

[dusty trench]

I mean it depends on their character and what they strive for, if they even strive for anything. And if so what context or background. Like a woobie villain or a tragic villain. Life and events steer them down that villain path. And there is many different ways that can play out, depending on the events and character in that story.

There’s even different types of anti heroes.

[limber ridge]

I wonder if there would be any anti-heros in Raven Brooks.

Other than Smith.

[dusty trench]

Idk if I can send that here

Lemme read more

[limber ridge]

I pressed it already

[dusty trench]

K

[limber ridge]

I have it on me.

[dusty trench]

Good

[limber ridge]

What exactly does this tie into?

[dusty trench]

Perspective maybe and other mind bending stuff

[limber ridge]

Oh cool.

Gonna read it.

[dusty trench]

I haven’t even finished it

Idk if the CIA doc contains

Inappropriate content

[limber ridge]

Okay not fully.

[limber ridge]

Well it's pretty formal so far. I doubt it does.

[dusty trench]

https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/cia-rdp96-00788r001700210016-5.pdf

Ima keep it because it doesn’t contain inappropriate stuff for the server.

[untold lagoon]

This what

[dusty trench]

Just a CIA doc in the HN lore discussion

[limber ridge]

Any lore anyone wants to talk about?

[dense raven]

tbf every story relevant character is a criminal by definition

honestly

does the RBPD even have a police chief

[dusty trench]

Nicky, Aaron, Beatrix, Ike?

Many more

[dense raven]

criminal trespass minimum for the first two

[dusty trench]

Yea but like, ya know

[dense raven]

Ike had artifact pieces that he digged up iirc

[dusty trench]

Yea

[dense raven]

uhh Beatrix is really the only outliner because we don't know nun about her aside from that she went missing as a child

[dusty trench]

And Beatrix has a role

Okay well a ton of characters are criminals we know that

But ya know what I mean

[dusty trench]

Also Aaron by hand was responsible for ya know

[dense raven]

yup

[limber ridge]

Also they ruined an entire audio system

[dense raven]

good thing is that none of these people are getting arrested because them being out benefits the cult

[limber ridge]

Why is that a crime

[dense raven]

technically it's still not his

[limber ridge]

True I suppose.

Since we're talking of criminals and crime and stuff, what in the world would have happened if Mr Teaserpon would have caught Trinity while he was in the bars?

[dusty trench]

Somethin real bad

I assume

[limber ridge]

I mean I assume he'd just, take the coin I guess?

[dusty trench]

Okay that too

[limber ridge]

But maybe more?

[dusty trench]

But then there’s the other times like how insane he starts to get later on in that cell

[limber ridge]

How long would he have even spent time there by Dark echoes?

[stoic juniper]

What do you think I should eat

[limber ridge]

Like uhh probably a few weeks maybe? He's growing out a stubble already.

[stoic juniper]

Who is growing up a stubble

[dusty trench]

Golden Apples

[limber ridge]

Teddy.

[stoic juniper]

😭

[limber ridge]

Kilm.

[stoic juniper]

I have yellow apples

[stoic juniper]

What is kilm 💀

[dusty trench]

Perfect, drink some kilm and have a speed runners chocolate bar

[stoic juniper]

What is kilm

[dusty trench]

Milk

[stoic juniper]

Oh yeah

[dusty trench]

lol

[stoic juniper]

I completely forgot hello neighbor has it's own language

💀

[limber ridge]

Kilm is kilm

[limber ridge]

Used to.

In HN3 it's gone

[stoic juniper]

Agreed

[limber ridge]

Which I do like tbf

[stoic juniper]

It should go back to the original language 🥹

[eager island]

it should not

[chrome maple]

milk is kilm, klim and limk

[stoic juniper]

It should for the nostalgia

[dusty trench]

It could have a tiny return, like a super heavy heavy lore Easter egg, or fun nod

[stoic juniper]

[stoic juniper]

This

[limber ridge]

Newspapers and writing is important for lore and some gameplay in HN3

So normal language is great.

[stoic juniper]

Maybe a tiny Easter egg like dark L suggested

[limber ridge]

Maybe. Just something obvious like "simming" or smth

[stoic juniper]

Swimming

[dusty trench]

Simming, Mwissing

[stoic juniper]

First time playing the game I thought it was the kids are swimming 😭

Anyways give me lore

[dusty trench]

https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/cia-rdp96-00788r001700210016-5.pdf

[limber ridge]

Also given that Ivan is like, suspended for a while but is back in the school in ep 9, it probably would have taken like a week or smth

Did they say for how long Ivan was suspended even?

[dusty trench]

Ins

[stoic juniper]

What the hell is this

Army ?????

[dusty trench]

CIA doc

[stoic juniper]

Leak them to everyone

Leak it all over the World

[dusty trench]

We only got declassified material lol

[stoic juniper]

Top secret

[stoic juniper]

[stoic juniper]

Do we got anything from hello neighbor diaries

[dusty trench]

Missing Pieces

[stoic juniper]

Anything else?

[eager island]

no

[stoic juniper]

That is so nub that we barely have anything

[limber ridge]

Nope. Other than like, some continuation of HN1 I guess, if you could even call it that.

Nothing interesting.

[eager island]

we were gonna get more things but the team got fired

[stoic juniper]

It's a prequel

[limber ridge]

Yeah like 4 chapters

[eager island]

sequel but prequel

[dusty trench]

I mean, it shows Nicky is curious on the past again, and dodging his fears. And other details could tie to stuff which I talked about symbolism in the game with dark essence Neighbor Shadow.

[limber ridge]

Seasons, whatever

[eager island]

because theres 4 act

act 1 - missing pieces
act 2 - waking nightmare
act 3 - buried secrets
act 4 - ???

[stoic juniper]

Episodes

[dusty trench]

Act 4, S2 AS Nicky’s view.

Maybe

[limber ridge]

The flashbacks are prequels, intro is sequel I believe.

[stoic juniper]

We only got act one from diaries

[stoic juniper]

Yes that is true

[eager island]

yes

act 2 development didnt even started

the team got fired

[stoic juniper]

Because it got shutdown

[eager island]

which i can understand because they did literally nothing for a year for some reason

they first released it as Hello Neighbor: Diaries in some countries then an year later it released as Nicky's Diaries with minor changes

[limber ridge]

At least it wouldn't be anything too new, just the books from first trilogy and probably some other retelling of act 2 of HN1

But it would have made book lore more accessible.

[dusty trench]

It can be new stuff, such as the maps Easter eggs and other details. Could’ve been new at the time.

[chrome maple]

is there anything of diaries from when it was a dlc?

[dusty trench]

Guest and MITH

Even Guest kid costume

[limber ridge]

Wait what

[chrome maple]

huh??

[limber ridge]

I'm confused

[chrome maple]

thats really interesting

[dusty trench]

Guest drawing we see in S&R

[eager island]

there was miths hat iirc

[eager island]

that

and the thing

[dusty trench]

Yes

[limber ridge]

Oh stuff like that

I see

[dusty trench]

And hold on lemme replay some levels and find some stuff, nvm on this

[dusty trench]

Old Mayor statue key from beta, doll house key, and that HW missing poster in the back

Also this game shows more symbolism that u should’ve brought up here as I have talked about it before.

The wall walking ad example, going back to previous levels to find bonus secrets with this ability.

[dusty trench]

From GamingwithACK vid.

I just didn’t have it in me, I tried.

We can still use the old HND limited test teaser as ideas too because of other games and stuff we see even in HND itself.

Like Guest drawing for example.

And the idea of how game would kinda play out, and what it could in tale.

[dense raven]

what was even this about

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuXNJ6J6Ang

if this is even real

[ripe berry]

something from the original HN Diaries back when it was a content expansion

[dense raven]

so that IS real

[limber ridge]

Wait was it a teaser?

[eager island]

no

it was in playtest

[ripe berry]

iirc HND back then was split into "weeks" with 5 missions/"days"
the 5th one is where a cutscene like this would play.
I remember there being at least 4 weeks

[limber ridge]

Wait this is really cool though.

I'm not sure what the hat even is supposed to mean.

[dense raven]

a part of me thinks it could just be a placeholder lol

[limber ridge]

Maybe.

[ripe berry]

na

[limber ridge]

Probably for some Aaron relevant item, if one.

[ripe berry]

sometimes they'd just use a drawing of something

[dense raven]

it's just that MITH has like

absolutely nothing to do with Nicky

[ripe berry]

like the Guest or Museum are referenced
BUT they're drawings

[limber ridge]

Or Aaron.

[ripe berry]

neither does the Museum but it also was in the game!

[dense raven]

Aaron became really inconsistent honestly

fair

[ripe berry]

(drawings with a filename calling them "Broken Memories")

[limber ridge]

I think just based off this cutscene, Aaron would be the likelier connection.

[limber ridge]

The museum was kinda like closed down next to Nicky's kidnapping. Probably a coincidence but maybe some connection is to be made idk.

[dense raven]

"I'm a curse" locked away to breaking out anyway last second (overcoming it??) to being locked away by his dad again sending help me paper planes to be rescued and becoming team Peterson AGAIN once he's freed

I understand that the context is different and he'll probably stop getting locked up after this

but nonetheless how repetitive

[limber ridge]

I wonder if Aaron is even able to get Ted away from the crow statue, and if so what even happens after?

Ted probably wouldn't want him to get away but like...

His back is crushed

[limber ridge]

Some lore I suppose. Kryptqn asked about the festival/ritual.

[eager island]

its still present in the story, i just dont think its the main objective (or just an objective) in the game

[dusty trench]

Oh yea I sent this before

I remember playing it

There’s one if the exact scene animation but it had Guest kid costume

Ima send it

[dense raven]

Guest costume sighting in 1996

[dusty trench]

https://youtu.be/GYlPUgG139A?si=R245ZddDx7_sQ2p1

Okay it’s not exact but it’s super similar

[limber ridge]

I really like the kinda vibe from here but not the biggest fan of Nicky still struggling against the thing after having that self-therapy thing.

[dusty trench]

This was like a path you could go down

[limber ridge]

And I still wonder if the hat even implied anything.

[dusty trench]

But he gets over it again

[limber ridge]

Like some connection to Aaron since he appears right when Nicky is takes the photo of the hat

[dusty trench]

He’s learning more about MITH

HND he is learning the full picture of what everyone else went through

He envisions it as breaking into Peterson’s basement because he is dodging all fear, and him exploring around through old stuff and going around town reminds him of when he was breaking into basement to uncover the truth.

This was a small moment of stress, fear trying to take over his adult self. But he keeps pushing.

[dusty trench]

Yes

[limber ridge]

But gets banished from his memory.

[dusty trench]

Because Nicky is learning who exactly helped Aaron get led down this path. He is trying to understand not just Peterson fam anymore, but everyone else in town. He had glimpses in HN1 cause he was aware, but was focused on figuring out Peterson and braking free from his fears. Now that he is free, he can do what he feels like which is uncovering the truth.

[dusty trench]

Even if fear caught him for a moment, he still picked back up since there is a week 5. Either way, he keeps pushing. But the player can see different outcomes Nicky could have, so it’s not guaranteed.

[chrome maple]

i thought that there almost wasnt any gameplay of the expansion at all

[keen basin]

Imagine coming back to your sorta childhood town and finding out there was a cult

[dusty trench]

He knows already to some degree

He wasn’t focused on that

Or he wasn’t trying too

[limber ridge]

Wait when did he get to learn that

Was it like during the basement?

[dusty trench]

We know he knows because HN1 and AS

[dusty trench]

Maybe

He heard stuff down there, remember

[limber ridge]

I guess if Ted told him about Frank he probably told him about the cult too

[dusty trench]

He and the others know Franklin existed too

[limber ridge]

Franklin would probably feel more personal than the cult I'd say

[dusty trench]

Or Aaron

Both told Nicky

[limber ridge]

I was just gonna say

[dusty trench]

Stuff

[keen basin]

and I mean when it comes to the books he was directly in there with Aaron, and whatever else that basement was, I still find that basement kinda insane

[dusty trench]

Underground amusement park

[limber ridge]

You know what I kinda want to rank the basements in between continuities

The books basement would be quite high probably because...

[dusty trench]

S&R basement

[limber ridge]

Y'know

Amusement park in there

[dusty trench]

HN1 had that too

And in both it wasn’t finished

[keen basin]

I feel like the books basement is the closest to like what it was in Alpha 2(?) in size at least

[dusty trench]

S&R too, and HND

Actually

[limber ridge]

For SaR would we count the creepy distorted areas

[dusty trench]

HND basement is better

[limber ridge]

I mean they're not real

[keen basin]

Alpha 2 is the largest basment right?

[dusty trench]

There based on reality, not in

There based on the reality within universe we get to view.

Kinda like folklore

[dense raven]

bruh Nicky is gonna learn more about MITH than we are 😭

[keen basin]

thats proly true

[dusty trench]

Makes sense

[limber ridge]

Adult Nicky is low-key a chad.

[keen basin]

alright alright, this is even more reason to have Nicky come back in the Reset day trilogy like I want, just gonna shove this into the copium producer

[dusty trench]

He already knew this stuff tech, but he is just piecing it together and clearing stuff up, while uncovering new things

[dense raven]

at this point you might wanna root for HN3

[limber ridge]

Learns about everyone, moves on from everything, athletic.

[dense raven]

because I think Reset Day trilogy is too far gone

[dense raven]

in one night too

[limber ridge]

Lol

[keen basin]

Alex said maybe after the movie, HE SAID IT (cries in corner)

[limber ridge]

I mean for real he doesn't do it all in one night

[dusty trench]

No it was weeks

But still

[dense raven]

the moving on thing

[limber ridge]

Wasn't it years?

Like the self-therapy process, that was years

[dense raven]

to be fair he only really started acting on it when he came back to Brooks

[dusty trench]

I thought he was referring to HND

[dusty trench]

Yes it was years tech cause act 2

[limber ridge]

But if we're talking about everything else then uhh yeah true

[keen basin]

just one good therapist could have probably helped Nicky out, if his parents didn't get him one already

[dusty trench]

Just the main thing happened in one night

[limber ridge]

Bro like has full control over dream world.

[dusty trench]

He didn’t know how to deal with it

[dense raven]

probably not

[limber ridge]

I doubt tbh.

[dense raven]

especially given that he understands that Peterson wasn't a monster only as an adult

[keen basin]

Where's the alternate timeline where Nicky becomes a hard drug user to deal with his trauma? Wasn't that maybe one of the ideas in a past version of the story?

I feel like I remember that

[limber ridge]

I think it was.

[dense raven]

it was in one of the apartment concept arts

back in the beta storyline

but there his trauma mostly revolved uhh

around his mother dying and his father (at the time the neighbor himself) constantly locking him away and being neglectful and yada yada

[limber ridge]

Generational trauma basically.

[dense raven]

drug use would explain a lot about Act 3 but overall it wouldn't really paint a good picture because proto-Nicky already had a struggle to overcome

imagine him having to also have to overcome drug use after all he went through to deal with generational trauma

[keen basin]

I feel like the early stories of HN1 would have been hard to stem more stuff out of, then again I wasn't expecting 7 books to come out of what we got

[dusty trench]

I mean yea that fits act 3 Nicky. Like a cigar or sum.

Not an addict

[dense raven]

pretty sure he was also portrayed as a smoker

[dusty trench]

Like signed

[dense raven]

yeah

[dusty trench]

Somethin like that

[dense raven]

ultimately what happened to those stories was unfair as hell but the final story ended eup to be the best

problems with devil/generational trauma plots is that they're not even about neighboring

at all

ultimately that only exists as bait in both stories

[dusty trench]

The neighboring was like a metaphor

In a way

[dense raven]

You think you're moving in your new house and your neighbor is just cartoonishly weird nope HAHA you're the devil's plaything

You think you're saving a kid that the neighbor locked in his basement wrong you're the kid and you're interfering with your own abuse

[dusty trench]

That’s what I mean

[limber ridge]

Ngl I kinda like that

[keen basin]

It works but with how HN tells its story it might have been more confusing. You don't really have to know what's actually happening to play HN1, because there is actually a kid in the basement and it's pretty clear that act 3 is a trauma thing or at least just a dream. if the whole game was a metaphor type thing it would be weirder while playing it

[limber ridge]

It's like a twist to the actual title.

[dense raven]

not against the "there's more than meets the eye" jazz

but it would hurt marketing a lot I think

[dusty trench]

Yea it has a charm to it

[limber ridge]

I guess.

[dense raven]

boo

[limber ridge]

But many outsiders say they liked the older storylines better anyway until they watch the show or read the books or smth so lol

[dusty trench]

No it wouldn’t

Some People expected a father son or devil storyline

[dense raven]

I just know there would be a bunch today

that would say "He's not even your neighbor 💀" as a point to criticize the game had it been the father plot

these went hard

[keen basin]

I think the devil one is the lamest, just kinda boring, and you can do the sins things but like, almost too easy

[dusty trench]

Well that’s just, I guess

[dusty trench]

The idea has been rearranged

And yea

Way better the way it’s handled

[limber ridge]

I felt it was overrated before but the more I think abt it

Not that many people really live it so much so idk

[dense raven]

to be fair it's essentially the least developed

its saving grace are the million cultural references in props and you have to be a god of obscure literature to catch them

[limber ridge]

As a Christian I really do appreciate the devil storyline. It's a metaphor for how the devil also tries to trick us and make us sin, the house and the traps I mean.

[ripe berry]

I think the Thing in this version of the story is like- a representation of the Neighbor's dad or something along those lines?

[dense raven]

that's to say we can't really properly judge it

[dusty trench]

I don’t hate devil or father sone ideas, but the idea they stuck with and basically formed overtime is way better because it ended up having an actual narrative.

[dense raven]

pretty sure generational trauma as a whole but partially that too

since it comes to scold him for the gramophone

[dense raven]

but I think it's nice

[limber ridge]

Of bad parenting.

That's how Nikita described it afaik.

[dense raven]

I sometimes daydream about us getting the painting Jesus as a fully modelled NPC that's just in the background behind the invisible wall watching you break into devil's house lol

[dusty trench]

It’s still fear and trauma, just represented through his parents in general. Fear from the moment of the bad parenting, and trauma of the past it took place.

But yea

[dense raven]

there's something really creepy about the Thing actually REACHING IN with its hands

[dusty trench]

That would’ve been in sky likely at times, since it was gonna be open world. It behind a house.

[dense raven]

it was?

[dusty trench]

Yes

[dense raven]

huh since when

[ripe berry]

so somewhat yeah (specifically the generational abuse or whatever)

[dusty trench]

Kickstarter and Nikita interview

Better way of saying it is like, the whole town I guess

That still would’ve been open

[dense raven]

oh interesting

[dusty trench]

Nikita said he wanted the front being to break into the house, but there is many stories to explore all around.

[keen basin]

so basically HN3

[dusty trench]

That’s why there is the portals to explore town and those Easter eggs in map.

[ripe berry]

and then tried again with HN2
and now again with HN3

[dense raven]

really wonder how that would work

[dusty trench]

Well

[dense raven]

given the story

[dusty trench]

Lemme explain

[keen basin]

L is cooking something up

[limber ridge]

Didn't they change to family before the alpha 1? Or so I was told

[dense raven]

maybe according to dates because uh

[ripe berry]

Alpha 1 was made WELL before we got it

[dense raven]

pre-alpha and alpha 1 were made far earlier than they were published

like way back

[ripe berry]

so date-wise yeah they had already switched to Family storyline when Alpha 1 released
but when Alpha 1 was being made it was still devil storyline

[limber ridge]

Yh that's what I meant

Worded poorly

[dusty trench]

In HN1 development, Nikita always had an idea of a neural network AI system that would be super advanced, almost like have a personality. Which we see expressed through the animations. Nikita in early stage of HN development came up with the idea of empathy where NPC’s would have emotion and there own stories. He wanted to put these elements in HN, but the dream project itself was decided to be separate. But many ideas were presented for HN1 and some tested for a bit but didn’t go too far. Driving, crafting, building of sorts, bigger map, other stories and such, even more combat tactical ideas, the mannequin bots would’ve been a kinda enemy thing not just mini games as the OG alpha 1 house suggest, concept art showing wildlife. And these ideas slowly but surely got added as each game went on, and HN3 is closest to empathy rn. And who knows if Nikita will keep it separate like dif universe, or whole dif thing but in same world.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/helloneighbor/hello-neighbor?ref=discovery_location&total_hits=1&category_id=35

Many more ideas present on the page itself

Even protecting your own house was planned. And online mode.

[lethal birch]

i mean what kind of empathy can you even have in hn1 tho

there are not much npcs out there

[dusty trench]

It was meant to

But idea was rearranged to not be for HN1 Because of what they had for game, and recorded.

[steady nest]

whats the lore loring

[lethal birch]

well best it is like that

[steady nest]

i wanna know more lore

[limber ridge]

Wrong. The loring is lore.

[steady nest]

who has the whole lore of hn2

[lethal birch]

guy who lost his family and goes crazy

thats it

[dusty trench]

Cult and time loops

[lethal birch]

yea yea

things

[steady nest]

im already initiated i just wanna know THE lore

[limber ridge]

The dreaded lore tower does.

[dusty trench]

Guest

Mayak

Ms. Tillman

[steady nest]

are there time loops in hn2

i want to lore

[dusty trench]

Harold

[limber ridge]

Yes but no

[dusty trench]

Yes

[lethal birch]

im at the end of the third book rn

when that ends

[limber ridge]

Or no but yes

[dusty trench]

Quentin is restoring time in that game

[lethal birch]

ill tell u

[steady nest]

and where is your evidence to support your claim?