lore-discussion

[dusty trench]

Elaborating on the stuff brought up in the first game like the bad luck imagery, the golden apple, eyes etc. . Because those stuff were present in HN1 as I talked about a ton before, most of everything in this franchise all starts from HN1 details. Little hints and background, why those were added is because they wanted to the game to be more open world and have multiple things you get to do, learn more stories in town. And maybe you ca tie it all together. Even a little of H&S represents those elements not just with the classic HN vibe, but more too. And the golden apple, is a mysterious symbol in town. Not much people know about the true dark background behind it, or the company. The greed behind the scenes, and evil demonic stuff. And it being a symbol of the town makes sense, also like The Guest representing that too. And why it says better days is because this shows that they planned for a story when the town was peaceful before things went downhill. And look wha we are seeing now. Even now with the Golden Apple corp. . Taking over everything in town, even elevating outside of town. And why it says it as a reward is more that it being really hard to find in HN1. But also it being like a treasure. Like you getting wha you want, or having more wealth type of symbol. Even the cult in HN2 has golden apples everywhere. Like a treasure or reward. Like they are collecting these. It’s like a symbol of wealth. It can be good and you can use it to support others and have a good impact, or take advantage of all that and be a symbols of greed. Which is why it says better days. Even with Nicky and his shark-o-tron shirt in HN1. What I believe this shows not even just the book but HN1 itself that shark-o-tron is something in branding of sorts. Maybe a security bot in HN of sorts. Even with HN3 the lawn-o-tron, the design too is similar. Or maybe Mr. Peterson created the shark-o-tron to play with Nicky’s mind.

[dusty trench]

Like maybe creating a literal version of what’s on his shirt to have what he loves be twisted. Since he doesn’t what Nicky in the basement or to just get lured down there from books and I explain before how HN1 shows this too a bit. Because Mr. Peterson has an underground park he is building for Nicky & Aaron, so why not create a literal version of what’s Nicky loves right (he’s so twisted lol). Even that mapping the beginning of the book is also a simpler down example for the audience to see. It’s not a maps, it’s a look on places Nicky has looked to the most in raven brooks or just went to. Why it’s like a paper drawing by a kid is because we are looking in Nicky’s child mindset. Even later than n his feared mindset that mars him feel like a short child, such as act 3 and act finale. Even Act 2 swells me the nightmares. Why it says something driving Mr. Peterson rage beyond human in the book and having the thing (fear) right next to him is because it represents how fear controls Mr. Peterson’s actions. He lets fear consume him more than anything. And why it’s says town folks have started to see a thorny thing (describing the thing shadow look) and that Nicky has started to see it is Al’s metaphorical. As we know no character can see the thing and it’s not supernatural so then what. Well the book also says in that Sam description something more darker and sinister at play. Which hints at the cult, and how Mr. Peterson is afraid cult taking control and everything, all that bad luck crashing onto Mr. Peterson. And even in time there is a lot of rumors spread, such as the forest protectors. And book saying thy seen the thing, is metaphorical of people claiming they seen something dark happen, such as the forest protectors, or Mr. Peterson doing stuff. And Nicky saying he seen it too is representative of him seeing more traumatic events, events that can cause fear in someone’s mind. Which ties to why Nicky is portrayed metaphorically as if he is seeing the thing in HN1

Even other media too like AS. Or even Trinity or others perspective mindset portraying the thing metaphorically.

Like learning of something darker at play like the cult can spark fear. Or that it was all a trap leading you to the basement, the view of Nicky.

[dusty trench]

Why the book portrays stuff as in words and such as if there is something supernatural showing or saying stuff as if is because it’s representative of characters fears, and why things are portrayed the way they are in HN. Showing something that would be supernatural, but it’s just a metaphor. Like the thing. Or Guest too. Even other “inconsistent” stuff is representative be of characters mindsets. And it shows stuff from the time period the book was made. Amalgamating stuff from that time period, and using it as examples for a guide, and the lore too. Like when it says SN is do the kids saving Nicky, or at least it looks that way. That is representative of what SN actually is. It’s looking back at ye event Nicky got kidnapped. I’ve already explain a ton about SN tying to other games like S&R HE and even AS and HN2 and more. Kid of like how in AS where Trinity of looking back at a distorted amalgamated version of the past. And imagination is hugely important as a metaphor. Why it say’s right go t after that one of the kids is secretly the neighbor is yes, the gameplay gimmick. But it represents how other characters like Mr. Peterson have manipulated and tricked the characters, toying with there fears. S&R, HE, HN1 and the books. And why I say characters and not just Mr. Peterson is because yes this time period it’s representing Mr. Peterson, later on it goes to Mr. Otto being a cultist and The Guest which both are a little different but still play that role of fear influencing the kids minds including the imagination, like H&S. Even stuff like saying studying Mr. Peterson world is representative of how in game we try to understand Mr. Peterson and his character to try and outsmart him, Al’s most like as if you breaking the gee which Nikita’s vision is for how it feels to outsmart the AI, hence how they describe the game. And why world is even deeper, as in game we learn more of what happened to Mr. Peterson by Nicky taking what he learned from Aaron

To see the more vulnerable weaker side of Mr. Peterson, Act finale being an example and you becoming more powerful that Mr. Peterson as you play lien unlocking abilities which I’ve expanded on before.

[dusty trench]

Why it says you is because you are the viewer, playing the game. And even why there is many metaphors in the game story that the audience can see, the thing as example, and every portrayal of him. No characters are actually seeing supernatural stuff, it’s the mindset we view in an audience lens. They use many words like mind bending in the book to describe not just the game and its puzzles, but even the story too. Which puzzles can tie in ways. There’s many more things in this book I can mention. Like when it says The Neighbor is an AI which is obviously taking gameplay. But can even represent things in Nickys view, like how he loves video games and outsmarting him is almost like breaking a game (vision for game by Nikita). Other game show this to just is ways that dirt the perspective. S&R, HN2, H&S. Even why it shows the act 3 bed room in act 1 section is because maybe Mr. Peterson’s house had a room like that somewhere. Maybe can represent the fact that Aaron & Mya have separate room in books and HN2. But in HN1 and H&S they have the same room, maybe to represent how close Aaron and Mya are, even if the relationship ended tragically. And yes, I believe that the chained up room you ca go in in HN2 Peterson house is Aaron’s room, and that the room behind the boo self is representative of Mr. Peterson’s office like SN. And why I say that is because in SN you ca go behind the book shelves and there is a board with picture’s of the town and other stuff like MITH. And even there is a security system in each secret room. And in HN2 there is a little desk in the room as well, but in game it’s empty because Mr. Peterson took his stuff to the museum and even in HE hideouts. Even a map of the park is in museum (which is from HG but it’s just a feral way of showing that he has a map of the park). And even an investigation board in a room with the town members like mayor and other cult stuff too, showing his investigation of the cult.

And in HE showing his investigation including time & teleportation experiments including weather control and other tech stuff I’ve mentioned before.

[dusty trench]

Even the description of Act 2 at the beginning it says Nicky cant keep track of how much time he has been kidnapped for. Weeks, months, years. That’s hinting at a bigger picture. Time manipulation. How the time loops manipulate the minds of characters, only influencing there fears more. Ive elaborated more on this in the past too with more games and media. AS being an example too, and HE. And that first page in chapter 7 describing act 2. It really shows you that act 2 is a distorted event by fear in Nicky’s mind sometime later, maybe when he’s in the mental facility in AS into me makes sense. Even the thing with him losing track of time shows it as well, not just the time but how the loops influence Nicky’s fears & mind, manipulating it. Eve with it saying someone freed him, was it Aaron or a phantom of this haunted house. Even further showing Nicky’s fear of the place, how the house haunts him lol a ghost. I’ve talked more on act 2 and why it’s portrayed as Aaron saving Nicky. And even tying it to Aaron’s perspective in S&R. And how the end of HN1 in finale kind of shows Nicky freed Aaron in a different view and showing it through a different event in the end of Nicky trilogy Buried Secrets. Eve act 2 has that weird doll house puzzle which would definitely be supernatural is literal. It represents how Nicky is using the house to his advantage to escape. Getting close to overcoming his fears. Like a spark of hope. Eve ties to why HN1 is portrayed so differently from Nicky books. That maybe Bicky learned about what the underground park was and what happened to Aaron form his words after he was taken at the dead end which is Aaron’s room. Why it’s showed like that in Buried Secrets at the end is because through out the series, fear takes over Nicky’s mind as you go on. Tying into why the ending part of Buried Secrets plays out more unrealistic that Act 1 itself. Plays out like a horror movie. Or like your slowly leading yourself into a trap, which Nicky did.

[dusty trench]

But it’s portraying the moment when Nicky first got into basement because that’s where he first git trapped. It’s Nicky looking back at the event after learning the truth of Mr. Peterson and his plan, Raven Brooks, and what happened to Aaron, remixing that moment was all a trap. That why it separate stuff that happened in Act 1, be sue act 1 is the actual event as Nikita says. But the books still has many stuff of what actually happened in Nicky’s perspective. Even the dream’s in HN1 and even act 3 and act finale, while not literally, plays out as of Nicky is going back to the past. Not literally, but his mind is looking back. Also ca still hint at time manipulation and the lop metaphorically, like the rings in Rest Day helping you not forget stuff from the loops so you can understand what’s showing, how they work, and break the loops. Even in the book as it describes act 3, it keeps showing pictures from in game of when Nicky goes to the abandoned Peterson house. Which implies that outside of act 3 and finale’s metaphorical representation, Nicky was exploring the town and getting closer to being foot at the Peterson house again, to represent how he isn’t afraid anymore, slowly getting stronger than his fears. And while act 3-finale isn’t a dream as it’s own, the part of Nicky resting shows the metaphorical background of the dream’s in HN, similar to imagination. How fears and twisted events can haunt you dreams and imaginations, twisting them into something darker. Trauma taking over your mind. Even again withe the time metaphorical representation, it’s like how in AS when Trinity is in a coma and events from the past are represented, including events that happens later on are foreshadowed including her fear represented. That’s cause it’s her trauma and fears taking over her mind. And when you are sleep and in imagination land in your mind, you can be most vulnerable. That is then represented in all HN media not even just with dreams and imagination,

[dusty trench]

but other stuff too like stage ply representation metaphorically. Why it says when it explain the thing phase 2 boss, it says that the thing is a full blown form of the monster that’s been haunting raven brooks and Nicky’s memories for years, is became it’s saying that fear, trauma, pain, and guilt, has taken over the town. All of the tragic events that happened in town are traumatic and can create fear, impacting the town folks in a negative way. Making all good memories bad, turning them negative, manipulating with you mind making you feel weak and controlled by fear. Characters fear and trauma haunting them, and their fears influencing there actions haunt the town, making more characters act out of fear, including Mr. Peterson. Which is connected as to why it says the maybe the thing came from Mr. Peterson’s madness or something born from his black soul, is because it represents how fear and trauma from the past have influenced Mr. Peterson, creating a raging monster within him, that showily becomes more cold hearted and making horrible decisions later on leading him down path of destruction, which is why it says the thing is in a all powerful tantrum. Like how Mr. Peterson gets out of control out of rage and anger because he can’t let go of the past, leaving his fear to consume him. He has this dream to live in a world where nothing bad has happened to him, having all of what he wants and his family around him. But that dream he imagines only left him more vulnerable to his fears, as imagination consumed him, his fears used to his imagination to trick him and later on consume him. Making Mr. Peterson more worried about control and getting rid of anyone else around him, and later on losing all how leaving him in a path of destruction. Destroying everything around him like how bad luck destroyed him and everything around him. His family, his parks, and even his house. Which this can also show that bad luck came after Mr. Peterson and destroyed everything

[quaint kindle]

Holy keyboard

[dusty trench]

Including his house. The ravens, eyes, all that symbolism showing something. And it’s all because of Mr. Peterson fear and him being stuck in the past and his dream imagination that this happened to him. Which is why it’s portraying the thing destroying the house that if you look is like a twisted version of the Peterson house in a way. All of the stuff in Peterson’s house all in one twisted place, with the sky storming around the house like tornado, which can even hint at the storm portrayal and even a storm being part of why Mr. Peterson’s house is destroyed. And again why it’s the thing being shown to represent that, is because it’s reprinting that what Mr. Peterson feared has come to destroy everything around him. And later on Mr. Peterson has become what he fears. This can even show that the diets game hits at his path of destruction. And why it says the final resting pace of Mr. Peterson is because it represents how he could never escape his fears or rest at all, as it says right after his in the end he could never escape the horrors he fears, and the horror’s he unleashed our of fear. And he made many mistakes because of that, and you can redeem from, so he lives in the fate of what he has done, and the house being main representation. Since it’s the Peterson household, and that that’s where he held Nicky, and the rescue squad, including Aaron. He seen it as protecting his son, but really his son as we see in HN2 he only lives more in regret in what happened to Mya. And he thinks that he makes bad things happen, and that he caused all of this. As of he is cursed by bad luck. Everyone is trying to get to him, including the cult. But Mr. Peterson would do anything to make sure that wouldn’t happen, but it didn’t turn out great in the end.

[ripe berry]

So are you saying the Guidebook's a real book to some degree in the HN Universe (minus the 4th wall breaks) or is it just a meta thing?

[dusty trench]

Yea like that the guidebook has metaphorical hints. Like for the audience to view so in way it’s somewhat meta, but that’s the metaphor. Thats why things are the wya they are in the guidebook. Amalgamating stuff that was released in that time period in a way that it’s somewhat a guide and a lore book. It does it on purpose. Like a guide that is metaphorical on lore and gameplay stuff, not fully being accurate. Like the 4th wall breaks are metaphorical in gameplay and story, like combining it together.

[ripe berry]

I view the guidebook as being a meta thing because- well this one page says all you need to know.

[ripe berry]

it implies it's an in-universe note from the Library
then proceeds to talk out of universe for the rest of the page

[dusty trench]

Yea, I was going to get into that too. That yes it has lore and stuff, but it’s still meta. Which is why it’s for the audience to see, such as the thing and other stuff that seem supernatural in the franchise.

It does it on purpose.

[ripe berry]

ain't there also a page that directly references the HN1 Alphas?

(or well, it talks about Ted's shoes originally having 666 on them, but does so in an "in-universe" forum post)

[dusty trench]

Yes. Which it’s taking the development, but also shows that ideas from early builds of HN games and pilot stuff ca be put into the actual story. Because the prototypes, alphas, and betas, just present ideas.

It’s a message from the devs, like how they tell us stuff here in the server and give hints in there words.

[dusty trench]

Also this. This shows something I was talking about before. On how Mya was using her imagination to cover up what happened in the past. Which is why it’s not represented too much. She is using her imagination and dream land as a coping mechanism in H&S. I’ve elaborated way more on that in the past by comparing to other games and characters.

[dusty trench]

Also what if, that librarian is the name of the cultist eye librarian. Which we theorized to be Lilly Librarian’s from HN2 dlc’s mom.

[ripe berry]

I was about to say

(either that or a future generation)

[dusty trench]

Yea

[ripe berry]

because iirc the first page implies that IF the Guidebook was real it comes after HN1 Act 1

[dusty trench]

Yea, throughout the book it represents that, like the page you sent. Which also can tie into something’s Alex has said with implying the crow faces are Guest and even saying it’s Guest before S2 came out. Can hint at how the Crowfaces want to be like Guest. And Alex really only started calling them Guest after fans called it that. It was they way the picture are presented, and even the design that made us think it was Guest. Even with Alex saying that Guest has voice lines, but then after S2 says that Guest was in series already in a way. Maybe someone who has spoken has been Guest. Or maybe we metaphorically heard dialogue of Guest somewhere, just didn’t realize it. Just hinting at Guest arrival in S3. The devs and writers are trying to play with our minds, constructing everything that happens. Like a stage play, which is often represented. And that sounds familiar right.

[ripe berry]

and the final page talks about unanswered mysteries and one of those is if Act 3 even occurs in the timeline
which can be taken to mean the timeframe Guidebook is trying to represent in the timeline (even though it's meta and has to include Act 3 for the sake of being complete) is the timeframe between Act 2 and Act 3

[ripe berry]

it also skips out on directly stating Mya dies at the end of HNHS iirc
Which makes sense because no one in-universe outside of Theodore, Aaron, and Nicky would know about that.

which ties into your thing about the Guidebook partly giving clues while also trying to serve as a guide

[dusty trench]

Yes. Also S&R implies that the rescue squad kids might have found out later on what happed because in one of the nightmare sequence’s before getting kidnapped, it shows upside down top half of Peterson’s house with the dolls flying everywhere, and Aaron is seen at the edge looking down crying and then running away in the attic probably back on his room or to hide somewhere because he so afraid of his father rn because of what he committed. Maybe trying an escape through the windows, which can tie into why his window in broken in the end of Missing Pieces and in HND with the greasy blood handprint, maybe Aaron used a tool to break it, or Mr. Peterson stopping him from escaping. Or maybe he wanted in his room, but as soon as his father came fear struck and the only thing he could thing of is running away but he cut his hand in the process, or maybe Mr. Peterson did. And btw I’m talking about the night after the funeral since Mya wasn’t present there because of her death but the funeral was next day so they had to go and an excuse was probably made for Mya not being there never trauma, but barely anyone was at the funeral and it ended quick so the excuse probably didn’t matter in the end. And then that night came and that’s where the incident happened and Aaron’s window was broken and the note was made, along with the hand print and Aaron getting locked up.

[dusty trench]

Even games like HN2 can tie to this by Quentin being the goofy investigative journalist and seen as one of the trusted adults in the series by rescue squad. Mr. Otto, creepy taxidermist who is a grumpy old man. MITH being that mysterious background character with heavy lore relating to other characters (puzzle master’s), S&R the kids playing there respective parts of there roles represented with there abilities, and HE with them being the engineers, but there roles are still present in there designs, character, and the cutscenes. Mr. Peterson, that creepy man that knows more than helpers on and works his own goal, but he is represented more than just that too. The clown, the butcher, ghost, devil costume, pumpkin head. That ca hint at him being one of the masterminds behind the scenes in a way. Because the loop caused most of everything in the HN story to occur if you think about it. He is preventing the rest of the story to happen. He is willing to make sure the world front develop so he can stay in the past. But he’s lost more people, and he wants everything back. But he can’t. More people learn his mind trick’s and manipulation, and won’t let the fear portrayals of him scare them. So they break the loop, continuing the story. It’s like one big stage play, people are forced to be in. Even HN3 has these elements too with the characters, their personality, roles, and placement. Which can even show stage play elements going beyond just the loops. That even after the loop manipulation isn’t happening in the timer period of HN3, influence still stands from it.

[dusty trench]

Oooh I can add onto this. And add more depth behind the portrayal of Aaron freeing Nicky with red key in HN1 and S&R. Norman left a note for Aaron talking about Nicky freeing Aaron from the basement. But Norman knew what would happen when he’s freed. He knew Aaron would free Nicky afterwards. Aaron knew too because of The Puzzl Masters likely Norman since he met with Aaron first, which is why it’s showing Aaron freeing him with red key like how Nicky used that key to unblock basement. Nicky set the event’s in motion, but in turn that created trauma for him. So the goal is to make sure he doesn’t have that trauma anymore, making sure fear doesn’t take over his mind. Which answers freeing Nicky from what. It means freeing Nicky from his fears. Freeing him from his traumatic past moments in time, mainly his most traumatic moment. His kidnapping, which is why it’s portrayed in that event in S&R. S&R is freeing Nicky from his trauma, and this is related to the loop. Because the as we break the loop, the events of the story unfold. And the rings help characters not get impacted by the power of loop in a reset and remember what happened in the loops so they understand how it works. They are setting the events of act 3 into motion because Nicky freed Aaron. Act 2 is a distorted memory of his fear’s taking over his mind. Taking his mind back to the moment and time when he was trapped. But Aaron intervenes that moment in his head and freeing Nicky from there. And when Nicky portrayed to escape the basement, that sets act 3 and finale into motion. He was at first haunted by the nightmares we see in game, then act 2 happens in his mind having him wake up and be ready to go to raven brooks (also the eviction notice). And Act 3 his mind becomes stronger, and Act finale over comes the fear. The rescue squad being involved represents them who were also friends with Nicky but regret what they did, and they are making up for that. As being involved with this mission to break the loop

[dusty trench]

As they were trapped in the loop by Peterson too, which is Also why in S&R it’s portrayed the events of them breaking in to save Nicky, and then escaping. It’s like AS where they put themselves in Nicky’s shoes, which is tied as to why they are slowly learning what happens to the Peterson’s like how Nicky does in books and HN1 by figuring out in past, and realizing it in future. Which shows S&R as being like a combo of many media put into one in a way. It shows that even tho they don’t actually see Nicky in that moment, they know he will get over his fears and get stronger. Maybe the rescue squad is resisting what happened as they look back at it later on. And this can explain the time representation in S&R as well. And this can go into the next thing. Why does it show Aaron freeing Nicky in Nicky’s perspective. That’s because Nicky found out. Again, he is realizing the truth in the future as an adult. Taking what he once feared, and using it to his advantage to get over it. Over elaborated on that many times before with the underground park and stuff being represented. Even in that game we get many representation of stuff that’s elaborated more in the future later on especially in act 3 and finale. But Nicky’s goal in those acts is to get over his fears. And there’s little bit a lot of info and representation of stuff like MITH, bad luck, the cult, golden apple, Mayak eyes, and even time in that game sprinkled through. In the future he found out more of what happened by using what he remembered of the past and piecing it together. No longer letting fear control his mindset and lose track of time and events, he is capable of learning himself, which we see more in HND. He realizes what actually happened. And that while his friend and friends aren’t there, they still helped him in the end. Why it’s not representing them much is because while Nicky knows and is thankful for why they did, he still is focusing on himself and getting over his fears.

Since he already realized in act 2 a bit, fear still consuming the event tho. But he gets stronger. And even the basement having multiple rooms too more then just Nicky and Aaron’s references his friends, and even in act finale, we are using all of these items and stuff knocking down Mr. Peterson. Like a bunch of kids using weapons and items to get him into rage. Like S1 EP6 of AS. And I even I theorized how they hint at the underground amusement park where n HN1 all acts even act finale too. And like how we are using the stuff in Mr. Peterson’s house to knock him down. It’s like this moments is depicting multiple things. All of Mr. Peterson’s problems and mistakes all coming down to him, leaving him tired after biting out all that rage. I explain that more previously but basically, it’s like multiple kids knocking him down in a way. Nicky going back and remembering it in a metaphorical way. That giving Nicky hope so see a weaker side of his kidnapper, so he can move on. The amusement park is the setting, and also his house which equals underground park. Why specifically that is eh vs e the incident at the park brought more pain to others and fear of why if something else happens in town if it’s effecting park s now. And thy were all trapped there in an underground park play haste kinda setting in the basement. The moment is depicting Mr. Peterson getting knocked down by all of that, his tools and creations even his problems being used against him. Even the kids. Not just Nicky. All the different escape routes in act 2 are like differences for the kid to escape, as if they got split up at points because do how big the house is. Which S&R also has them split up which that game also depicts the kids freeing Nicky from his fears. Which means the set the events for act 3 to happen, by breaking loop. And that’s why we see Aaron depicted to use the red key and unlock door in Nicky’s mind. Nicky nightmare would be him trapped in basement, but Aaron unlocks that door.

[dusty trench]

And why it represents Aaron more is cause both were down there longer. Even the game represents Nicky saving Aaron from the basement. Nicky going to the room, it being bright like freedom, like the last exit. Mr. Peterson out of rage and anger not realizing Aaron’s escape because of everyone else escaping, shown with his screaming and anger in boss fight, and even ties to AS. With Mr. Peterson raging and ignoring where ever Aaron is, shown with him portrayed to destroy Aaron’s room and Aaron getting knocked out of the picture so he can face Nicky. But when Mr. Peterson is most vulnerable and in danger, he realizes Aaron’s gone and sees him run away. So out of rage and anger Mr. Peterson breaks the rules and crosses the property line. Cops come and he get taken down because he is overthinking about what happened to Aaron and isn’t paying attention so they knock him down. All of the bad luck and even karma crashing down on him at once. Even as to why Leslie makes fun of Mr. Peterson when he’s in car, like when they were kids. And why Aaron was escaping is many things like him knowing how twisted the underground park is, and wanting to make sure his friends are okay. Also he does have some fear of his father, making sure he doesn’t go rage mode and cause something horrible. And why he goes up to his father in HN2 is because he still wants to make sure his father isn’t hurt because he sees the good in him. Which also shows a bit of Aaron’s false hope and even more of the imagination and dream metaphorical portrayal in characters minds.
He wants to believe what his father is doing is right, but deep down he knows it’s not the case and when he has to act fast you can tell. But another big reason that ties to all of this as to why he ran away is because he knows he had to set the events into motion for later on and act 3-finale. He has to help Nicky escape his fears by helping the puzzle master’s set the events for the future, which I believe is what he is doing in S2.

[dusty trench]

Which I also believe is also happening in HN2 HE and S3, and this shows that he is willing to give himself up of it means fixing the timeline and making sure his friends are okay. As he made a deal with The Guest, and kidnapped by cult in HN2. He is willing to take the risk of his life for this, because he knows what is greater good for the town and his friends. And he’s finally accepted that his father will go down a destructive path, but he played his part. In HN2, he is saying a goodbye to the last time he see’s a more sane and emotional side of his father. But even with all of the sadness in him, he knows what he has to do. He accepts that after this, his father won’t be the same again. Letting go of a false reality, not letting an imagination dream reality consume him. Which, would only let him be more vulnerable to fear consuming him. And is accepting that his father has to face the consequences of what he chose to do. He knows what his father’s doing is dangerous and only making things worse for others including himself, and it can escalate to the world since the island loop and experiments I’ve discussed before. Mr. Peterson Aaron’s father, is the one willing to have the world never develop and take control of others and risk their lives, so he can get his dream reality. And Aaron is the one willing to sacrifice himself for the greater good of the world and others, to let the future unfold and develop itself.

[dusty trench]

This can also tie into Act 2 and the nightmares also showing of Nicky’s self doubt of escaping his fear’s and trauma until Aaron steps in, setting Nicky up for success. Which I have mentioned self doubt before in Nicky’s head and even about the act 2 and S&R Red Key freeing Nicky portrayal, but here in this discussion I elaborate more on something I said Ina previous text and add onto it with more detail and evidence tying more things together more.

[novel oyster]

Guys question was mr Peterson originally supposed to be the devil

[eager island]

yes

[dreamy sluice]

he also kidnapped you for no reason (canon)

[dusty trench]

He wanted players soul

Because devil

[dreamy sluice]

i know

battle with god or whatever for whoever gets more

[dusty trench]

Basically, story wasn’t good

So they made anew idea

[dreamy sluice]

i meant no reason as in he has no reason to pick you specifically

[dreamy sluice]

that's crazy

[dusty trench]

Yea

[dusty trench]

mo

Could’ve been good tho. I don’t hate it

It’s not like a bad idea

[eager island]

i dont like the idea of him being devil

[dusty trench]

Yea

[dreamy sluice]

clearly neither did mr grandeturisto

[dusty trench]

If like everything about the game was different, could’ve been good

Which means no neighbor

[dreamy sluice]

"if hello neighbor wasn't hello neighbor"

[dusty trench]

Yep

[eager island]

the game was actually not hello neighbor until full game

it was the hello devil and hello father

[dreamy sluice]

the devil who was your neighbor, yes

you can be two things

[eager island]

why is devil my neighbor

[dreamy sluice]

because you're in some fake reality mr sosed made for you

[dusty trench]

Those were ideas made at the time they put hints of in alphas. But full game took ideas from them but made a new story around it. Like the symbolism and stuff.

[dreamy sluice]

because he wants you to like lie down and give him your soul or whatever

[dusty trench]

Devil vs God war plot

Came then went

Father and son plot

Came and went

And then the plot

[dreamy sluice]

it didn't have to literally be a battle

could've been battle as in like

[dusty trench]

Metaphorically

[dreamy sluice]

a bet or something

[dusty trench]

Like that

[dreamy sluice]

which i honestly find more likely

[dusty trench]

Fits Nikita more

His way of telling a story

[dreamy sluice]

can't help but feel like our dear judas lookalike isn't winning

[dusty trench]

Or like there was a battle set up, but we never see it. Because we are just viewing it in players mind so we never actually sees.

[dreamy sluice]

i fear back then the basement door would've directly led to the end of the game

rather than an actual basement

[dusty trench]

It probably would’ve. Most of the stuff meant to happen was outside in the map. And at the time with that idea of what story could’ve been, that would’ve fit.

Basement was exit to reality

[dreamy sluice]

i should review the grandeturisto posts from like 2015/16, i didn't save any of the key points properly

[dreamy sluice]

yeah, i feel that's very clear

possibly even the only exit

[dusty trench]

Yea

[dreamy sluice]

since the neighbor's staying with you rather than leaving and letting you sit in there

he can't just destroy it for that reason, i assume

since he'd be locked in there with you forever

[dusty trench]

God and the angels would leave hints for you to break in house or all over map for exit to be unlocked

[dreamy sluice]

and like... you don't have dedicated player texture

which is very scary

[dreamy sluice]

not sure i've seen anything about this but it's an interesting idea

[dusty trench]

That was theory

But I actually like that idea

[dreamy sluice]

y'know, unless you think player_body_old was originally going to be the devil plot player rather than the father/son plot player like nicky always was

in which case there is one dedicated player texture for the hands

[dusty trench]

Kind of like a test. To see if you’re willing to let your soul get captured. Maybe you were the chosen for a war that you don’t see, and devil blocks the exit. Which would make Mr. Peterson a metaphorical kind of mind representation of the devil.

[dusty trench]

Nicky model definitely for father and son plot.

[dreamy sluice]

anyone who thinks otherwise is like
do they not know what nicky looks like? that chin is genetic

player_body_old could've always been just a slapped together thing just for animation, though, as mr roth was properly worked on

[limber ridge]

It's mechanical actually

Trust me bro

[dreamy sluice]

i originally was going to disregard all you've said but this message is so trustworthy i just have to believe you

[dusty trench]

Even thinking about it many of the ideas from early HN got to full game. They already had plan for the alpha 2 house to be like a tutorial simple level of sorts at the beginning of the act. They already having plans for a separate bigger house (alpha 3 and onwards).

[dreamy sluice]

originally, that bigger house was just going to be the alpha 1 house (but not bad and unfinished ofc) and i sob thinking about it

alpha 3 ruined hn1 windows

[dusty trench]

Even boss map where it was going to be child Neighbor but they had better idea instead. That idea actually getting implemented.

[dusty trench]

I’m talking father and son idea

[dreamy sluice]

those tall things made to artificially inflate the building's scale is evil

[dreamy sluice]

yeah.

which alpha 2 is a part of

alpha 3 was based on making a playable neighbor_3, spurred by people "liking neighbor_3"

not to mention it was made in like a month

prior to alpha 2's release by tinybuild, they'd have to had planned for something different

[dusty trench]

Yea. I believe the basement chase and then my theory is that passed the door would either be giant neighbor. Or maybe like if you went to basement it would be like alpha 1 ending. And then you walked up across the street again to alpha 3 house. And then when in basement the chase happens, giant neighbor, and the thing.

[dreamy sluice]

which i assume would've been the house they've been planning the whole time

[dusty trench]

This might be a cool fan idea

[dreamy sluice]

(the hypothetical finished alpha 1 house)

truly, just imagine that house but with the detail of alpha 2's

alpha 2 has the only actually finished houses in hn1's old artstyle (because they actually planned on reusing them this time)

and you can just tell

[dusty trench]

That would actually be pretty cool. Just gotta finish up a ton of stuff.

[dreamy sluice]

they put physical peeling wallpaper in alpha 2's basement, hn1 newart could never

[dreamy sluice]

it could, but they messed up hn1 newart so badly

[dusty trench]

I love how the alpha 2 house is warped to be fitting to adult Nicky, and full game act 1 and act 2 house is warped enough for child Nicky almost to make gen player feel like a child’s.

[dreamy sluice]

truly, either artstyle just needed finishing and polishing up and i'm sure people would finally stop arguing about which one is better

[dusty trench]

Ehh they already planned the HN1 art. But it would’ve had more detail if more time and budget.

[dreamy sluice]

they also planned hn1 oldart

they just drew concept art in numerous styles

hn1 newart came about in alpha 2 when nikita decided he thought hn1 oldart's cartoonish, grounded artstyle was not unique enough and wanted to crank it up a notch

which looked good at first until it stopped looking good

the lighting in hn1's fullgame is not very pleasing or complimentary to the meshes

not to mention they'd decided to ditch putting regular textures on each asset for the style sometime during alpha 2

and then the multimaterial update, which just like

thumbs down

the concept art for hn1's newart, (uh not counting the early stuff, i don't really like that lol) looked amazing, imo

sad how it turned out in comparison

hn1 oldart, on the other hand, is so disgustingly unfinished everyone was fooled into thinking the artstyle looked... like that...

the foliage is all free assets (which i deem clearly placeholder)

(who on earth be thinkin that the one speedtree tree they put everywhere would be the actual tree for that artstyle)

[dusty trench]

HN1 old art in old concept art was a kind of more detailed version of full game visioned art. But it fit the old idea Nikita had more. You can tell it was more cartoony in the concept arts. Like mix between a realistic with a creepy touch, but is cartoony on the surface. Like kind of dark comedy. Such as the art of Mr. Peterson sitting in the couch and it looks normal, but in the back there is cameras and a bear trap. He looks normal as of this is normal to him. That fit more of the devil plot tho. So Nikita wanted the art style to fit what the games idea was. For the father and son plot was created. Alpha 2 started that but the house fit more of a player who is an adult. But then later on Nikita thought of what he thought was better story idea, and warped the house to fit the child player in act 1 and 2, to fit vibe of story. So they already planned like the general art style concept. But certain details and even huge ones just fit older ideas better than full games idea.

[dreamy sluice]

hn1 oldart is not a realistic artstyle and that's what frustrates me about anyone who talks about it

it's certainly far more grounded than the newer artstyles

but c'mon, man, who lives in that

[dusty trench]

I wasn’t trying to say that, it was always cartoony. But I was saying the detail to make it have a realistic type of feel in a way. Like more life is what I’m trying to say.

Personality

[dreamy sluice]

no, i know what you said

that wasn't related it just sent late

[dusty trench]

Oh

[dreamy sluice]

the original size of the alpha 2 house was much closer to act 1's actually

they had quite literally stretched it out in order to fit the new door size, resulting it in being that large

sad how they could've avoided the door size change if they just didn't mess up mr roth's animations

[dusty trench]

Yeah. Also fit that dream lol aesthetic which even tho want fully refined in full game, I appreciate it because you can feel and see the effort.

[dreamy sluice]

without the broken idle on, nicky fits in the old doors perfectly

[dusty trench]

It looks good for that game and its development.

[dusty trench]

Ooh. Maybe they could’ve done in act 3 make it the old door size. And change texture up to make it look good.

[dreamy sluice]

no, they never fixed the idle animation

[dusty trench]

If they fixed the idle

[dreamy sluice]

likely because every single holding animation is the size of the idle

and they didn't want to fix those either

[dreamy sluice]

(back in alpha 2, a fixed idle did actually exist)

(from what i can tell they chose to replace it with the old one because of that reason)

[dusty trench]

Yea that makes sense

[dreamy sluice]

even when they updated all the movement animations in fullgame, they left the idle

so when you start moving you can see nicky go from stretched to shrinking to his normal size in the shadow

[dusty trench]

lol

[dreamy sluice]

i sent a comparison image somewhere in here, i believe

let me see if i can link it

#hello-neighbor message
#hello-neighbor message

these links

first one is with player body old, second with player body

[dusty trench]

I can see it now lol

Dang that’s actually so weird to see. That explains why he is so, robotic in full game except cutscenes. I knew it was broken, don’t know there was fixed one.

[dreamy sluice]

#hello-neighbor message
here's me trying to put the stretched holding animation on the fixed idle in a way that wasn't TOO horrible

the fixed idle is actually leftover in one of nicky's mkit resources blend files

[dusty trench]

Looks better

[dreamy sluice]

and based on the other animations in that blend file, i know that it must've been in the project for at least some point before being overwritten by the old one

[dusty trench]

Yes this game has really in depth interesting development

H&S is also really unique in the Hello Neighbor franchise. I love the art style in that game it’s actually peak.

[dreamy sluice]

hide and seek?

naturally

the artstyle is kind of just a more progressed hn1 newart

distinct enough for grandeturisto to consider it different

[dusty trench]

True. But it’s also how everything is stretched and morphed so perfect. The music just sets the vibe too. The animations and personality of the characters in this game is actually so good.

[dreamy sluice]

i also feel it just fits a little more, considering the whole game's warped around the eyes of the daughter's imagination

[dreamy sluice]

they're very good at animation, oh yeah

[dusty trench]

Yes. It really feels like you’re in the mind of a coping child who’s been through a lot. But the force of bad luck come to haunt them. Her seeing Aaron look shocked just lets you know that she knows he didn’t mean to do it. And I really hate how people think Aaron is the villain like WHAT!?

[limber ridge]

Wait who

[dusty trench]

What?

[dreamy sluice]

Mya Peterson

[dusty trench]

Oh

[dreamy sluice]

Player in the HIT game Hello Neighbor: Hide and Seek

[dusty trench]

Yea Mya Peterson

[limber ridge]

As in who thinks Aaron is the villain

[dreamy sluice]

oh

probably Mr Peterson

[limber ridge]

More of a rhetorical question tho

[dusty trench]

Other random Youtubers lowkey forgot the names too that don’t know what there talking about.

[limber ridge]

You probably won't share the names of the ppl eitherway

Yeah

[dreamy sluice]

we actually know every single one personally and will not hesitate to out them at a moment's notice

[limber ridge]

Nah

He was probably protecting him.

I mean it's either the whole maze with a mini built-in amusement park or mental ward

Or jail

Or whatever else

[dusty trench]

Like the YT Shorts who do the stupid AI vids talking about, THE DARK STORY OF HELO NIBOR. This vids.

[limber ridge]

In fact, i don't think in the Nicky triliogy tapes he even says anything abt that once

[dusty trench]

Don’t really see them but it pisses me off

[dusty trench]

He believed his son was cursed because of his fear’s

[dusty trench]

I believe these can tie in a bit

[wicked heath]

He was cursed because cult

[dusty trench]

Not supernaturally

[wicked heath]

Of the goosemen

[limber ridge]

I'm pretty sure the devices can't just curse someone for Forever

[dusty trench]

GOOSEY BOY

[wicked heath]

The goosemen cult uses equations stuff for cursing

[dreamy sluice]

oh god....

[wicked heath]

Its not so much supernatural as its more movie-science stuff

[dreamy sluice]

aaron's like twelve and was suffering through the loss of his mother

[limber ridge]

Norman even says the Petersons just are like that

[dusty trench]

Correct

[dreamy sluice]

i'm sure the Missouri juvenile court system or whatever won't go TOO hard on him

[limber ridge]

Guys this might be a Little messed up of a question but is the basement really that bad? I mean. You get food. You have rides in there.

[dusty trench]

Missouri also known for strange weather in rl.

[limber ridge]

Pretty cool rides too

Away from cult

[dusty trench]

Probably (most def) dangerous

Could… die

[limber ridge]

Like the rides?

There's no way they're High enough to kill anyone when they are located in a basement

[dreamy sluice]

raven brooks might be like miles away from anyone else in missouri (this statement is based purely on hn3's prototype 3 map), but it's still canonically part of it according to the books

literally nobody cares about raven brooks

[limber ridge]

Lol

Might be one of the most irealistic parts of the franchise story lwk

[dusty trench]

That can also make it dangerous, if not worse

[dusty trench]

True

[limber ridge]

Are You really telling me no one cares about a town that has record-breaking storms with unnatural geo-magnetic properties, where a world-class engineer is located and where ppl are constantly vanishing

(not directed to You btw this is actually canon in reset day)

[dreamy sluice]

people callin it a ghost town while there are residents actively living inside of it

[dusty trench]

They would be interested. If they had more, mainstream of stuff about the town. Also considering in the future tons of folklore and rumors spread about Raven Brooks and its mysteries as more stuff happens. Probably people bringing the mysteries to the outside city mainstream, but internet and other tales get created about it.

Because spooky town.

[limber ridge]

True

[dusty trench]

Wait, what if that’s because of the puzzle master’s, bringing the info to the outside public. Like the Archivist.

[limber ridge]

It's such a pity Ted doesn't like safety measures on his rides because otherwise, just based of how they look and descriptions in books the parks with them would be 100000/10 places to visit

[dusty trench]

And even Quentin seen returning to Raven Brooks in HN2. Probably left to bring info to like the big news about Raven brooks.

[dusty trench]

Yes I agree

[limber ridge]

Oooh.

[dusty trench]

That can explain why the golden apple corp is also outside of RB, books in beginning is by Golden Apple.

@limber ridge This discussion can tie in

[limber ridge]

Hmm. But archivist is anti-cult right? I can't imagine her helping the GA spread their stuff to outside of Raven Brooks

[dusty trench]

This discussion can tie in

[limber ridge]

Lol You tagging Geno was such a jumpscare to me

[dusty trench]

lol

[dusty trench]

No that’s my why I’m saying

[limber ridge]

Because i got my display name as Geno to jokingly impersonate some guy

[dusty trench]

I’m saying that the Golden Apple corp. is going outside of town quicker so they can erase any info of RB that the puzzle masters put out ther, like Quentin and Archivist as example

So they they play into rumors

[limber ridge]

Oh. Yeah that makes a lot more sense

[charred wharf]

Dark you lowk scare me because the other day I checked the channel only to see a wall of text from you

[dusty trench]

I’m trying to scare Tinybuild lol

[charred wharf]

😭 well it's working for other members too I guess

[dreamy sluice]

tinybuild: OH MAN! I'M SO FRIGHTENED!

[dusty trench]

lol

[limber ridge]

I can imagine they're scared when they just see some guy randomly solve the whole lore lol

[dusty trench]

Aay, it’s just a theory

[charred wharf]

is it a game theory, tho?

they killed you bro 💔

[dusty trench]

HN lore

[limber ridge]

So like where did pumpkin kid and Guest kid go If they are still alive.

[dusty trench]

Probably hiding away in Raven Brooks, or maybe exited town to find a better place but it was dangerous. Ad games like H&S bring up city elements and how dangerous it is with crime elements, homeless drug addicts, robbers, crime, and even fires. So they end up just hiding in Raven Brooks brooks based on what they heard on the outside city, or maybe witnessed incident’s themselves or seen how cruel the world truly is.

Maybe Guest kid ran away but then later on changer their identity to come back. And Pumpkin kid came back but mane didn’t change they’re identity. But after discovering this stuff they become curious in how to stop it, kind of like Rescue Squad and Nicky.

[limber ridge]

Makes sense

[ripe berry]

I know this has nothing to do with the current conversation but I literally just realized under the whole "each floor of the restricted section represents a generation of the Librarians" thing the Bottom floor has the heart-resembling furnace because it's literally the heart of the town
the generation that founded Raven Brooks
also hello chat.

[limber ridge]

Hello

[dusty trench]

Like maybe Gerda formed other cult group because the cult threatened to kill them. Gerda agreed first, but Pumpkin kid and Guest kid didn’t agree. Guest kid traumatized after realizing some of her bloodline is evil, she ran away in regret of wearing the raven man costume. Pumpkin kid realizing Gerda betrayed them left her, and then formed a group with Ike Guest kids brother to help find her. But then they couldn’t recruit the sister because she is cultist because cult used her to go find her sister on the cults terms. Later on Pumpkin Kid an Ike found Guest kid and she joins them. Later on another Halloween incident happens and Franklin goes missing, who I theorize is the missing boy in the HN3 newspaper. But the girl on newspaper could be Archivist/Guest kids. Franklins death caused an uncontrollable storm, and during that storm Archivist got lost. She event into hiding but kept contacts with MITH/Pumkin Kid and Ike, and then later on Norman and other puzzle masters. And maybe after that they removed her being found since she is missing again. Or she went into hiding before and they spotted her during storm incident but she ran away.

[dusty trench]

Oooh

[dusty trench]

Hello 👋

[limber ridge]

Abt Gerda being the one that made the second group, that's in a way ironic because She has the least power among the old Inventor's club group as just a baker while one of them is a Mayor, one of them is a school principal and one of them is a police officer.

[dusty trench]

Yea

[ripe berry]

(this also explains why the Heart Furnace thing is linked to the entire rest of the Library. Especially if the Librarians are related to the Tavishes, they're all directly tied to the heart of the town)

[dusty trench]

Never though about that

[dusty trench]

Good connection

[dusty trench]

This might confirm HE’s placement a bit maybe

[limber ridge]

Wait what is there to suggest HE takes place before HNVR

[ripe berry]

not much outside of a fourth wall break and the lack of Nicky (Nicky's absence is now alternatively explained by AS Season 2)

[dusty trench]

This could tie in to the S&R thing

[charred wharf]

Search and Rescue mentioned what did I miss

[ripe berry]

so wait, if we take this and reverse engineer the timeline:
Act 1/Book 3/AS Ep. 1-4 - Early August 1996
AS Ep. 5 - Early October 1996
AS Ep. 6/HNVR/Act 2 - Early October 1996
AS Season 2 - Early October (need some time for the GAAP to be rebuilt and promoted for AS Season 3)
AS Season 3 - Late October (Wait this would actually be peak bc it could mean WtRB ends the same day everything began)
Hello Neighbor 2 - Late October-Early November 1996
Hello Engineer - November 1996
Raven Brooks Disaster(?) - November 1996
Hello Neighbor 2 (Patch 9) - November 1996
Hello Engineer (Sandbox Mode) December 1996
Secret Neighbor (mix of time periods but latest one it seems to be a part of is) December 1996

[glacial whale]

So do the kids break into his house again? I thought that took place around the sixth episode of season one because I figured it was just similar to SN

[ripe berry]

wait this actually works better than I thought
because doesn't Map 4 (the Act 1 House Map) have a calendar that says it's in December?

[dusty trench]

Oooh

[ripe berry]

Loading up SN RIGHT NOW to verify this

[limber ridge]

Rbd would take place later on in the timeline than 1996 surely right?

Actually nvm Phones exist in As regardless, they don't mean anything

[dusty trench]

@glacial whale this can tie in a bit. These messages.

[ripe berry]

I just put it there otherwise there's a completely unresolved plot thread regarding the storm
and it's more narratively satisfying to only have one major storm in the lore

[limber ridge]

That's quite a gap between ep 4 and 5

[limber ridge]

Yeah. It adds up, again the phones might as well exist in 500 BC in hn universe

[ripe berry]

it was once stated Act 2 occurs 2 months after Act 1
Ep. 5 occurs earlier the same day as Ep. 6
Ep. 6, HNVR, and Act 2 are all a part of the same event.

thus Ep. 4 and Ep. 5 have a 2 month gap

[limber ridge]

Oh yeah i miscounted a little

[ripe berry]

I think it did exist but was deleted in the artstyle change

[ripe berry]

because it's not there anymore
but I remember it being used to tease something at one point so it did exist

[limber ridge]

Im pretty sure i remember it being somewhere

[ripe berry]

people in the chats have referenced it before
#lore-discussion message

[dusty trench]

Some people have archived old SN builds, even the pre alpha

[ripe berry]

it was in the downstairs bedroom in Map 4 before the artstyle change

[ripe berry]

or sorry, "Decimbir"

[limber ridge]

Imbir 10

[ripe berry]

confirmation it did exist
#secret-neighbor message

[dusty trench]

Oooh I remember that

[ripe berry]

and Book 1 and Book 2 state when they occur
(Late August 1995 for Book 1, Late December 1995 for Book 2)
((Even though HNHS, which occurs during Book 1, runs from March-May 1995))

[dusty trench]

Also (iirc) all old SN assets are still in the map maker mode.

[ripe berry]

also- early August makes some form of sense for being when the AS begins
Means Trinity isn't randomly dropping into the middle of the schoolyear but instead right around the beginning.

[dusty trench]

SN Roblox has some lore hints too. The main lobby area shows Nicky’s house across from Peterson’s, cop car from HN2, Quentin’s van, Mr. Peterson car crash depicted with Guest in the background doing the laughing emote. And there is the church with graveyard, the SN main menu sitting area behind Nicky’s house. MITH watching everything behind a car peaking over animation. And even trees that have apples in them, for some reason they are purple apples.

[ripe berry]

also SN in December 1996 explains the snow event
Raven Brooks Weather would be all kinds of messed up after Ted causes the flood so there's no snow.

[ripe berry]

and that depiction of the church is closed like the HN2 Church is implied to be

[dusty trench]

Ooh

[ripe berry]

(idk if it's still this way because I'm avoiding roblox like the plague rn but)

you can clearly see that it's boarded off

[dusty trench]

Oh yea

[ripe berry]

(using old images from DMs) MitH watching from a distance directly lines up with the MitH Trophy talking about him being seen watching the Peterson household often

[dusty trench]

David just need to give up Roblox to people who can moderate. My theory is that he is trying to shut down Roblox while also not trying to let it go. Because he is old and getting burnt out, so the best choice is just giving it up. But he isn’t willing too, leaving more, incident’s to happen. Which they say they try to stop it but, Schlep is still banned to either way who cares. It’s sad to see the downfall of that platform. But yea back to HN.

[dusty trench]

Oh yea that fits.

[ripe berry]

and it seems to be specifically the HN1 Church Model here, which implies the HN1 and HN2 churches are the same

[dusty trench]

Yeah

Maybe then, we could find evidence for the factory in HN1 to be GA factory maybe.

But there isn’t much evidence rn as far as I’m concerned.

[ripe berry]

actually, I have evidence for that
but it requires using Hello Guest for the evidence

[dusty trench]

Oh

Still wouldn’t be evidence for canon. But we can talk about HG lore for a bit.

[ripe berry]

basically, Hello Guest Alpha 1 appears to be using the Hello Neighbor 1 map as a basis
you can find the exact path Quentin/Beatrix go down in the Hello Neighbor 1 map
it splits into two paths, both of which also exist on the Hello Guest Map, seemingly meant to link up with the paths in the HN1 Map as they both cutoff at the edge of the map for the game

and one of these paths?

it goes right by the Factory

and then it takes you to the GAAP

exactly as the books claim

[dusty trench]

Wait. Evidence from book

So it doesn’t require HG info

[ripe berry]

no it does because the books don't make the map clear
but I was saying the books claim the Factory and GAAP are right next to each other
and Hello Guest proves that, at least using the HN1 Map, they are

[dusty trench]

Oh

[ripe berry]

HG may not be the most reliable source of lore information
but I think this one thing is minor enough that it can be used

[ripe berry]

besides, what'd be the odds of the Factory from HN1 being implied to be the Golden Apple Candy Factory
then they just change their minds and make it a completely different factory afterwards?

[dusty trench]

I feel like what this shows is the similarities in different character perspective mindset views that can slip in. Like in S&R nightmare sequence hinting at Mya’s death, Aaron goes into attic. And Mya goes to a roof ledge through a door, leading to a bridge like S&R depicts in dream world. Similar to Mya’s perspective. Which means that Aaron and Mya probably went to the roof through the attic.

[ripe berry]

yeah

[dusty trench]

Also can tie more into the first game being elaborated on in Nicky trilogy. Even the fact of Nicky finding a Golden Apple in act 3 can hint at that too. All places in HN1 are related to Nicky’s memories of the past. And what other factory does Nicky go to in books, GAF.

[ripe berry]

and one thing I can say is there's one location I wish got more elaborated on that I don't think has been

[dusty trench]

Ooh

I’ve seen some theories talk about that but faintly

It’s also in H&S

[ripe berry]

only thing I can think of is that the hand shaking thing here is also one of the symbols on the HN2 Park Fountain (but not even one of the ones used to unlock the catacombs entrance)

[dusty trench]

It can symbolize not letting go of the past. Which can hint at Mr. Peterson’s character, of not letting go of the past. The loss of a close one. I even mentioned above about the act 2 thing with Aaron and what it shows and hints at in our discussion about the note/guidebook. But this can hint at Mr. Peterson’s experiences of time a bit because of the elaboration later on. Also showing Mr. Peterson’s desire for eating to go back to the past. And it’s holding hands, like holding someone close. And the left hand is like facing down. Can be elaborated on now to represent Franklin. And the statue in HN2 a golden apple. HE is Guest, and HN3 is original Raven Man. The golden apple in Quentin’s mind is representing the cult, there corporate greed, because he learns about them and there evil, what they did to a town once filled with joy, now corporate evil taken it over. HE showing how the cult turned a symbol once peaceful into corporate branding, worshipping it as apart of their demonic ritualistic practices. And represents the cursed tragedy that happened at the GAAP, and even other rides by Mr. Peterson, as the park being one of the symbols of tragedy, like the roller coaster nightmare in HN1 the Peterson’s life turning upside down, As bad luck and what Mr. Peterson, fears followed him. And HN3 showcases the legacy of the town, and Historian trying to bring back what the raven man once symbolized before it getting tarnished by evil cult material behind corporate greed. And the evil side of it still remains as shown with the other statue in the outskirts near the darkness where The Raven Man sits. And H&S also having the same statue as HN1 can show that maybe during the events of H&S, she kind of learns the truth. As thee is even error trophies in game that lead you out of bounds, which I’ve explained those before and those lead you to the statue. Even more imagery of bad luck an cult like stuff being represented, like the Zombies circling around the grave.

[dusty trench]

Giving you brains and whispering like a sacrifice or ritual. That Mya probably learned about what was really going on behind the scenes, including Franklin. But she was scared and didn’t know what to do. So her imagination dream land in her mind consumed her. And that way she only way she could think of be case ur of everything that she has gone through, and haven’t been taught much by her father since he is also trapped in his inaction dream land, letting fears consume him and his actions. She knows that, but front know what to do because she is scared. The cult On my way! on that part of the timeline that Norman and the puzzle masters couldn’t stop brace they were outsmarted. Not even Mr. Peterson could stop it. This can even show Mya probably learned about her father’s experiments too with time and stuff because of these secrets. Those error secrets in H&S were the puzzle master’s trying to reach to Mya to stop her from dying, but the cult got to Mya. Because the only way she learned from her father, was to just use her imagination and create a dream land. Instead of balancing both imagination and realness. And tv statue being in HN1 fits too since Nicky is using what he learned form Aaron and whatever he experienced in the basement, to understand the weakness of Mr. Peterson and not be afraid anymore. And even a scene from a teaser was meant to be in S2 EP1 has Nicky saying you have no idea what happened to him, and he is looking at the weather station. Which in S2 he is looking at the weather station in fear and panicking until Trinity steps in. Which showing that can even confirm that Trinity knows about the stuff too with Franklin and whatever happened to Mya, even her depicting Franklins death and depicting Mr. Peterson being trapped in that moment. Because why would she be depicting this stuff. Showing more of her being put in Nicky’s shoes, and that her and her friends because if S&R knowing about what happened be she thy figured out later on.

[ripe berry]

popping in again despite being busy rn to quickly ask what you think the Occult Book from HNHS Stage 4 could imply (the one used to create some Zombies to give a couple brains from the bushes in Stage 4)

(which notably has what looks like an eye symbol (which at this point in the timeline was tied to the Forest Protector Cult) mixed with another symbol on it)

[dusty trench]

I believe it hints at the sci fi elements of the franchise and even the tech stemming from Mayak. The top being like a planet like Saturn, the left being like anemometer, and the right being like a building of sorts. And the middle being the eye symbols shaped like a key. This seems to me to be depicting that Mayak is key. Key to the tech we see in HN. The luck devices, time manipulation, weather, and cult uses that tech for there rituals which its circles around as if a ritual, which eye symbol all used for cult as you mentioned. Why there is a planet is because on the weather station there are satellites and those send signals to space satellites in real life. It can also represent the space and time being manipulated with time manipulation and teleportation being connected to Mayak tech and presented in HN. The anemometer which also connect to space signal satellites. Which shows more of what I mentioned before about the space signals and connection of manipulating space and time in HN because of the Mayak tech. Also think about the space satellite that is crashed in the HN1 map. Maybe too much manipulation happened the experiments with time and space, that the satellite couldn’t handle it and crashed onto Raven Brooks where signal came from. And that right one can represent the weather station building on the surface, other representing what’s on the building like the tech and signals going to space. And the eye in the middle represented Mayak tech is key for all of this stuff, the eye being main representation tied to Raven Brooks culture and the hire ups of the town Tavishes slowly descending to a cult, obsessed with the tech of Mayak and the secret of life and how to manipulate it. And that’s where the zombies come in, as I believe it represents the manipulation of life. Good luck and bad luck. And the tragic legacy of Raven Brooks, and the souls taken by the town’s dark, murderous, greedy nature. And this book ca also represent Mr. Peterson book in AS.

[dusty trench]

The cult wanting Mr. Peterson’s book for their rituals and plans. They want to manipulate with life and death, manipulate characters minds, which is why the zombies rise and more zombies come. It’s representing them playing with life, and manipulating characters minds to follow them. Like Maritza, and what they do to Mya. As I mentioned her perspective today above and other times too connecting the imagination metaphors. This showing more tat she knows what’s going on but if afraid to ask out of fear. Only way she knows Jo to cope because of her father is living all the way in imagination dream land. But fear will consume you more, and a path for bad luck to come. As she isn’t trying to pay attention to the outside world, she isn’t trying to think about the truth. Because she is scared, and this is the only way she knows how to cope. Also the zombie stuff can tie into the rebirth metaphorical symbolism in HN3, which I beige we tied a little bit to other media like Mr. Peterson’s book have the hour glass, and other ritualistic stuff an info on the cult. Which the book in H&S can represent, that they want the knowledge and info Mr. Peterson has from his experiments.

[ripe berry]

I MUST note that that satellite isn't canon
it's filename has "EE" in it, which means it's an easter egg.

[dusty trench]

And this HN2 trophies icon is called reunion, depicting Aaron holding Mr. Peterson’s hand. And it’s called reunion because it’s the last time he is seeing a more sane emotional sod sod his father. The last time he sees his father’s human side, that he never really get to see.

[ripe berry]

same with the glasses in Act 1, which were a Harry Potter Easter Egg, or all of the Youtuber Easter Eggs

[ripe berry]

!

[dusty trench]

Which can tie to this too

[dusty trench]

An Easter egg of what tho? An Easter egg can also be canon, lore Easter egg.

Also while the Easter eggs themselves aren’t canon (like in that way that’s meta), I made a theory of it showing some stuff in a way, not the actual thing itself that super meta but was it’s kind of based around. I believe this can tie in.

[ripe berry]

it's meant to be one of the Voyagers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_2

iirc

[dusty trench]

Oh yea I got you. But, maybe while the satellite didn’t crash and it’s an Easter egg to something else, it can be an eater egg to show a bit of Nicky’s character like be a figment of Nicky’s love for tv shows, games, and sci fi, and his belief in tons of sci fi conspiracy stuff and aliens. Not literal, but it ca show some stuff.

While also being meta, kind of like the guidebook.

A message from the dev’s.

[ripe berry]

no wait I'm stupi
that's not the voyager
that's one of the Pioneer satellites

[dusty trench]

Like the pioneer 10 stuff

Real life satellite

[ripe berry]

Pioneer 10 or 11

[dusty trench]

Oh

But you know what I mean right

[ripe berry]

yeah

[ripe berry]

(it was on both, which launched ~1972 and ~1973 respectively)

[dusty trench]

Wait, so that means a crash might have happened. While it also showing Nicky’s love for sci fi conspiracies and aliens. And he is using Raven Brooks as proof for that stuff, because of all the stuff he has learned about time manipulation of space with teleportation, weather making etc. Mayak.

[dusty trench]

Even if it was based on voyager that launched 1977.

[ripe berry]

I think I just misunderstood which satellite it was

[dusty trench]

I mean they do look similar first glance. And it’s the hello neighbor artstyle we’re analyzing.

[ripe berry]

funnily enough we lost contact with the Pioneer 11 in December 1995

[dusty trench]

Wait

OMG

There’s no way

💀

It crashed on Raven Brooks

Only surprised because I didn’t know it was based on that real satellite specific model, and the time periods line up pretty well.

[ripe berry]

(or well, late November-early December)

so I guess the timeline does match up
but how would it go from leaving the solar system to Raven Brooks, assuming it's canon?

either way, it's one of the few timeline-accurate easter eggs in the game

[dusty trench]

@ripe berry I believe this could tie in a bit

[ripe berry]

👍

[dusty trench]

Maybe most likely it was Mr. Peterson experiments maybe, or cult but I don’t think so and it was likely Mr. Peterson since Mayak is more like his main experimenting area cause of games like HE and his knowledge of the place and his notebook. And since cultist dot understand the tech fully at the time, and stuff blocks the puzzle masters from stopping some incidents to happen like tragedies and death, it makes sense for Mr. Peterson to be keeping track of cultist and close watch on time problems and making sure nothing is out of his control. while cult is trying to understand the tech to Mayak so they can take control of it and the other stuff connected to it. So maybe it was Mr. Peterson who caused it too crash, due to his experiments that the satellite signs couldn’t handle.

[dusty trench]

Tying into that, The cult only sending signals from outside of Mayak to Mayak so they can manipulate the tech within there, with the luck devices which upgraded to Mayak tech, and other tech and tools they stole from weather station and Mr. Peterson the through tunnels probably. So they can cause storms with rituals. Mr. Peterson would also be watching them do stuff within station but they don’t understand full technology so he ca make sure they don’t get too close. And he will kill cultist too who he sees enter. And he would be traveling tunnels and watching cultist to study them, there rituals, and there knowledge. Also again, killing them slowly.

[marsh idol]

it makes the most sense it would be peterson for me

[dusty trench]

Yea

Also wsp

[shell gull]

Mr. Peterson for sure, The Cult isn’t really one to create devices or experiment that much. The Cult always had power but Mr. Peterson had the smarts and tech.

[dusty trench]

Completely agree

[marsh idol]

wasdup

[dusty trench]

Although, books implie that they created the devices maybe with Roger and Adele’s tech without Roger & Adele knowing. As Roger and Adel find luck devices in a nest.

[marsh idol]

i may be fuzzy on this but didnt they reduce the luck devices to be those smaller portable ones

or was it stolen from peterson

[marsh idol]

yeaaa

[shell gull]

The Tavish are cultists in the books, they funded the meteorology program for Ted’s parents who made the tech, the Tavish then took it away from them and cut their funding once they figured out they were onto The Cult.

[shell gull]

In AS they are the Golden Apple Coins.

[marsh idol]

yes what i referred to

[dusty trench]

Probably caught on because of stolen tech and found it out to be Tavishes who stole it. Which can mean Roger & Adele came earlier.

[ripe berry]

Besides, we agree the cult is greedy to some degree right?
It's more cost-effective to steal tech from others and then get as much money off it as possible then make it yourself

the cult's always been shown to take characters and concepts that already existed

the Guest was a town symbol they warped into the Raven Man
the Eye Symbols were also a town symbol they stole
the Tavishes bought the rights for the Golden Apple Candies rather then inventing it themselves, and then the Golden Apples became another cult symbol

in AS Season 3 instead of making something new they're reopening the GAAP for their plans

the Golden Apple Tokens were made for the GAAP before becoming Luck Devices 2.0

so of course Luck Devices are much the same way

[dusty trench]

Yes truly

[ripe berry]

it's a reoccurring trait that the cult would rather steal something that already exists and twist it to suit them then make something new

[dusty trench]

Another instance I found of hands grabbing towards each other similar to the statue was in however you get the HE credit’s.

I say however because there are many ways and different things you can do, and even extra content and secrets in game you get to, and get credits.

[marsh idol]

really fascinating

obviously a reference to that one painting

https://tenor.com/view/heaven-adam-god-touch-finger-light-clouds-sky-gif-15311573656532337489

i think

god touching adam

i don’t know how that could fit symbolically

[dusty trench]

Ooh never thought of that. Which could tie to the discussion above.

[marsh idol]

let me scroll up

[dusty trench]

It was talking about the HN1 statue

[dusty trench]

In HE it can show repenting for your mistakes. Which the rescue squad have made mistakes, but they make up for that by helping out Aaron and Nicky. And in Mr. Peterson’s case, he wishes he could repent, and he tries to go to his dream reality by bending time and manipulating time and space. But that only makes things worse, since he is willing to risk others lives and the world for himself, and going to this place because he can’t excel the past. But that’s only gonna make fear consume him. That’s how it can tie to the discussion above.

[marsh idol]

fits it very well id say

with peterson thinking what he is doing is redeeming himself for others while in reality it’s for his own benefit

[dusty trench]

Yea

Also there is some more stuff ima send

This discussion I feel is very interesting. Gotta read all the way down back here.

[shell gull]

To this day I can’t explain lore super detailed. Might be a flaw but all my replies relatively are short and not very engaging.

I need to work on my writing.

[limber ridge]

What if the occult book is actually the black book from the show, Mya and Aaron found it somehow and they are now using it for their larping

[limber ridge]

If that's true then... 👆

Like that's another crazy thing abt Raven Brooks and still somehow no one cares about it.

[wanton roost]

Almost finished missing pieces

I'm on page 123

This books makes me thing lucy yi is more important than I thought

[limber ridge]

Are there any interesting details You noticed?

[wanton roost]

The newspapers and more about the accident of lucy yi there's also more stuff to dive into

Maybe if im done with the 3 I can have some ideas

[charred wharf]

Oh right didn't she like. Crash into a tree in the books 😭

That must've been pretty gruesome

[limber ridge]

It does make You feel like that but it doesn't pay off too much ngl. Irl most people wouldn't even care about it that much sadly

Or maybe gladly because at least no great amusement park burn downs that could possibly kill even more ppl would occur

It's in between i guess

It saddens me that the vengeful townsfolk aren't shown in the show or games at all.

Because them being like that adds a feel of value and presence in the story to them, as well as forces the cultists to be more careful rather than just be able to kill/injure a bunch of ppl in Broad daylight and everyone's like "oh well"

[wanton roost]

what about the lucy event in sn wasn't she a ghost in that?

[limber ridge]

Oh yeah She was

[wanton roost]

But I'm not sure that means anything right?

[limber ridge]

Idk

[dusty trench]

I was thinking the same thing above too

[dusty trench]

Yea that is truly what’s crazy about Hello Neighbor. And honestly one of the most mysterious parts. Something must’ve been erased or sum idk.

[ripe berry]

at some point a full timeline document should probably be made

[willow depot]

This

[willow depot]

I miss four years ago when Nikita did a QNA on HN1A1 and revealed a bunch of info on the cops duo since he was working on HN2 back then

Kinda forgetting nowadays that "Wow this town has cops! There are actual stakes for the cult and they're super careful and everything!"

Hahahaaaaaaaa sure would be a shame if they turned out to be

Part

Of the cult

[limber ridge]

Surely there's no way all of them are cultists

But the ones that aren't are idiots because they still allow the cult to maneuver them around like crazy

Leslie mentioned iirc that getting the blueprints out without being seen was hard, that must mean there are non-cult members in the police station. And yet Peterson is the only prisioner and Trinity is able to visit him as if with the press of a button

[marsh idol]

i have a HN google doc documenting the lore chronologically

1/4 finished tho

i'm gonna release it for public editing when i get to a good spot

[dusty trench]

Yea like Keith isn’t a cultist (edit: He is actually cultist I thought Leslie gave Gerda museum key so ignore this, but yea I doubt every cop is a cultist, maybe most of them tho or half, maybe less tho from what we’ve seen).

[dusty trench]

Excited to see it

[dusty trench]

Yes definitely

[wanton roost]

Yeah like Esposito family

[eager island]

he is

keith is the one who gave museum key to gerda

[little lodge]

Cool, when do you think it'll be at that stage?

[marsh idol]

the weekends i predict

[dusty trench]

Oh shi I forgot about that. Idk why I thought that was Leslie 🤦‍♂️

I remember now mb, probably forced to help because of how he is portrayed in the books. His book portrayal is pretty dif. But it can show he is use manipulative and also the fact that he rescued Gerda who is cultist in the newspaper shows as well.

[dusty trench]

No Keith is cultist I forgot he gave museum key to Gerda. Probably forced to work wit them because of how he is portrayed in books, maybe they forced him to. Or maybe forced him a long time again because he was the one who found Gerda and that would mean because she became cultist so he let her go and claimed that he found her. So yea, I barely see him mentioned.

[dusty trench]

@wanton roost 👆

[dusty trench]

But yea Esposito’s are def not cultist for sure.

[ripe berry]

Leslie gaves Keith the key, who then gives Gerda the key

[dusty trench]

Makes sense. The perfect cop duo.

[shell gull]

Wish we got to see them together canonically at least once outside of the CCTV.

[glacial whale]

At the least just one cutscene

[dusty trench]

Hopefully AS S3 or the movie. But for AS I doubt, maybe movie.

[dusty trench]

Also S&R too in the ending btw, but still small.

[shell gull]

Yeah hopefully. I doubt the movie since it’s based on the first game.

[dusty trench]

But also it’s in Nicky’s perspective which he knows Keith in books, and AS shows he knows Leslie Kornwell, and even a bit with the same least jar in books who is also an officer, likely a sister to Leslie or cousin. Or if he has a wife idk. Also they are going to make it more grounded and detailed with more characters most likely since it’s a movie and not a game, which yes while based on first game don’t mean it can have books or HND. Which both are based on the first game. Including AS S1 but in Trinity’s mind, and even H&S adding onto the first game as a kind of DLC but in a separate game, but in Mya’s perspective. It shows you can portray stuff in other characters minds and perspectives based on something else, not saying movie is someone else’s since it’s Nicky’s hit ya know. So thy can have both characters and hint at the cult, also the fact Nicky learns stuff about town in the basement and cult too because of details within the first game that show something bigger happening, that they meant to show in just one game but because of how it turned out and people wanted more they elaborated on it with books, H&S, and more characters as well as future installments. So they can still have that stuff, like they aren’t going to do act 3 as a whole in first movie like how it is in games, or act finale. Maybe some elements of it but it’s a movie.

Dot forget the fist game intended tonnage way more open freedom around town and characters too, but time and budget as well as multiple ideas they tried pushing didn’t work that out as they intended.

[wanton roost]

Or probably not

maybe Keith didn't know about the keys and leslie told him to give it to gerda for some reason

maybe trying to get him in the cult or just using him while leslie does whatever he's doing

[shell gull]

Doubt that, he is the chief of police and also was the one who found Gerda when she got lost with the rest of the Halloween kids and she ended up in The Cult. I don’t think he would just listen to his partner to give the key to the now abandoned important museum to the local baker you know what I mean.

[shell gull]

True but again it’s based mainly towards the first game so elements from outside the first game may appear but I feel it may be more set in stone on the original game.

[wanton roost]

he probably got manipulated to do that for some reason Its very hard to see him as a cultist especially how he's described in the books but your probably right

[shell gull]

I still doubt it, people thought it was hard to believe Otto was a cultist when most of everything points to him being one + every HN2 character besides Ted is a cultists so I doubt there’d be an odd one out.

[wanton roost]

I guess you got a point

[eager island]

well its different writers and firstly hn2 keith was not meant to be book keith (nielsen-newsom) then they made them same char

[dense patrol]

So after all the time, im quite new to Hello Neighbor. (i simply was a kid as the whole game started, and i was too scared to play). So i've played hn this year first time in my life, finishing game after game. And i still don't really get the connection between hn1, hn2 and hn3 neighbor. Are theese the same person? Or are theese like alt. Timelines?

[eager island]

theyre same

[dense patrol]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1393713320522940509/1444673648161067099/emil-dresden-emil.gif

And what about this animated show?

[eager island]

different continuity but its the same guy

[dense patrol]

K, thanks

[dusty trench]

Definitely more in the first game. I was saying like a cameo or sum, or maybe a name drop but they either don’t or do appear. Like a hint in a way, Easter egg. An Easter egg that so happens to be important. Like in that one H&S scene, maybe a crow can be seen watching Nicky, also like how crow was watching Trinity in her room, and like ending of S2 EP1, like a glimpse at something darker like the original game portrayed ravens, but never actually showing the cult. And maybe an Easter egg in film of Mr. Peterson’s office, and they show a shot that they don’t really focus on but can have a good after egg for fans showing some lore stuff the fans know. But movie doesn’t focus too much on it. Ya know.

[dusty trench]

You should point out that everything is canon

[eager island]

this doesnt contradict what ive said

[dusty trench]

Just saying should mention it

[wanton roost]

Which books is this from?

[eager island]

reset day iirc

[wanton roost]

it looks so familiar to the AS

[limber ridge]

It's reset day but i can't remember which chapter/fragment the image is in. They encountered multiple of these carvings throught the novel.

[little lodge]

Is it ever stated who makes those carvings and when?

[limber ridge]

I don't remember a statement.

[dusty trench]

It’s never said but a theory I had is that it’s cultist. Like modern cultist, not the ones from like HN2, maybe some cultist from that time could be alive but we’ll have to see.

[limber ridge]

I think it's just bored kids maybe.

[little lodge]

Makes sense, I was thinking along those lines but wasn't exactly sure. Also another unrelated question, do we have any information about what happened between the 90s after RBD and the 2010s before Act 3, as it seems to be a period with no information about it other than characters dealing with trauma.

[ripe berry]

I don't think we do
it's an era of the timeline they can fill out with future media

[dusty trench]

No we don’t have like much info as of rn. But I can say that rumors start spreading around even more outside of Raven Brooks due to GN2. And could be the period where the cult starts to expand my outside of the town maybe, like GAAP. And newcomers come into the company and are carrying on the cult legacy, probably people who are blood pelted to some cultist and want to continue the family history of being part of cult. And they start playing into rumors of the town and folklore. But really we don’t have much of any huge info on that period, yet.

[ripe berry]

I would say however there's a good chance that most of the HN3 cast were born in that era

[dusty trench]

Yea def true

[ripe berry]

outside of Isaac (born 2018)
The Guest (age unknown)
Theodore Peterson (born 1943)
and the Historian (born before Theodore)

[ripe berry]

(Isaac was say to be around 10 years old)

#hn3-discussion message

[dusty trench]

And Janusz would be like, maybe late 2000’s.

[ripe berry]

yeah
most of the HN3 characters don't have exact ages but I'd say 2000s makes the most sense for most of them

[dusty trench]

Maybe like 2008, or 2009 for Janusz

[ripe berry]

(please do so after AS Season 3 tinyBuild the 1990s are already bloated with enough content we do not need ore 1990s stuff)

[dusty trench]

Maybe after raven brooks is destroyed, stuff about the GAAP outside Raven Brooks can be explored. Making more open world stuff within the world of HN, and more of Nikita’s vision.

But that’s after stuff from the 2010’s time period it cleared.

[little lodge]

Maybe what happens to the Rescue Squad excluding Nicky, Enzo and Maritza?

[warped bay]

I think Trinity is rumored to be dead in reset day, but Im wondering like is anything confirmed there isn’t any information on like what happened to her or the rest of them also with Jordy and Jess like who is their confirmed mother

[dusty trench]

Not confirmed where Trinity and the others are, and not confirmed who there mom is. Would be cool if there mom is Trinity. But then where is she then. Why isn’t she mentioned, Is she dead? So asf rn we don’t know much to make sense out of, but we will have to see later on.

[warped bay]

Yeah we only hear Jess mention her mom once about her death, later in the book Jordy tells us that E&J motors started being built when their mom had apparently passed, which could maybe have some connection later on???? Idk these parts are confusing

[dusty trench]

I’m saying maybe later on we could get an identity of there mom.

And figure out of it’s Trinity or not.

[warped bay]

I hope it ends up being Trin, that would be cute

[dusty trench]

It would be nice. Question is how does she die.

If she is there mom

[warped bay]

Yeah I hope we get more insight on that, if Trinity ends up being the mother, and Jess said she never actually got to meet her, it could have been childbirth

[dusty trench]

Maybe killed by cult, or something else relating to that.

This discussion I find interesting and can tie to this

It is a long read

[wanton roost]

so guys do we know who was chasing nicky in waking nightmare in the prolughe

[ripe berry]

didn't the description for one of Enzo's kids match Trinity's appearance or am I misremembering?

[dusty trench]

iirc, they both have dark brownish skin. Which also can match Maritza and Enzo but they have a mixed skin tone in most media, while in original Hello Neighbor book she is seen darker there on the picture color style.

[willow depot]

Technically isn't that what HN3 would be doing

[dusty trench]

The creature seems to be a manifestation of Nicky’s desire to keep moving forward, but it’s challenging because of the pressure he has in his life. He has school work, adults don’t really believe him including his parents, but he’s driving to solve the mystery, uncover the truth of the tragedy. Which is why it’s the park. He he park shows that pan and tragedy that happened. Nicky has been going through a lot ever since his best friend going missing and his family down falling. And Nicky’s imagination is being twisted by his fears, pain, and pressure. Everything crashing down on him all at once, stopping him from uncovering the truth. All his responsibilities and other outside work he has to do coming after him, but he just wants to do what he wants. Uncover the truth. He wants to get slower to his friend again. And figure out what he went through to understand him and find him, which is why it’s the park. Because it that’s what he experienced in his past, was at that park. Andeve othe incidents he learned about but GAAP being the main one represented for obvious reason. This can tie to so many other things too, like the loops, puzzle masters, cult, and other details I’ve mentioned before. Talking about him seeking the truth and finding Aaron.

[limber ridge]

Basically no.

[wanton roost]

hm maybe guest? Cuz nicky seen him in some way idk

[limber ridge]

Not sure actually, the rescue squad was using Nicky's room as a base when we saw that guest picture so maybe not

[dusty trench]

This could be a possibility for partially what it is, like representation way. Not exactly what because we don’t know design.

[marsh idol]

tech

[marsh idol]

likely to stay metaphorical i agree

[dusty trench]

Yea, unlikely rn that it’s an actual physical being Nicky has seen and in his nightmare, or it could be based on something Nicky has seen or multiple things combined into one. Like some people say it can be partly Guets but like mixed with other things in a way relating to things Nicky has seen in like newspapers drawings and stuff he has experienced or heard. Which wouldn’t contradict what I said above. Like some of the park mascots we see in HE. And waking nightmare very much reveals that it was a nightmare, maybe based on something else like if Nicky got chased in a first and he imagined it as a creature which I believe represents stuff relating to him in the text wall. But we don’t get info on that in books, games, or AS. But it still ca be based on some stuff, just not directly asf rn.

The way it’s portrayed is clearly metaphorical in his nightmare dream state.

[ripe berry]

I will note the guidebook pretends the Thing is an Urban Legend in Raven Brooks

[dusty trench]

(Made some more edits). Likely that shows part of the thing portrayal can come from the fear and trauma of urban legend’s in raven brooks, like the raven man, and the impact the festival and stuff had and such. Like in general of how the town corrupted overtime as more corporate greed and behind the scenes shadiness started to happen. Which can tie to Mr. Peterson and even what Nicky learns along with Aaron, Mya, and Diane. Rescue Squad and Quentin as well, and the puzzle master’s. Those characters as examples of people who have learned about the truth about what these folk tales are based off of.

[willow depot]

TYPO

Kms

[limber ridge]

Wha- i thought You said "techie" as short for tehnically

[willow depot]

They say that??

[limber ridge]

Idk

[willow depot]

GN MITH my beloved

[limber ridge]

Love his design too

[willow depot]

I really wonder what the heck they planned with him back then

To ask for a graphic novel artist to draw him as a test

[limber ridge]

The kid that died in the Bosco bay ride is actually alive as Smith and The ending to GN1 was supposed to be him monologuing about finding the neighbor.

\j

[limber ridge]

Do we have any knowledge on his purpose in hn2 alphas?

[eager island]

he was the one who hired quentin and beatrix in HG, no clue for hn2 alphas tho

[limber ridge]

Okay.

[willow depot]

IIRC Nikita said something about him being fake neighbor or something of the sort

Like that he had something to do with that

I think

[eager island]

to use them to search for the mayak while avoiding a direct confrontation with the guest

[limber ridge]

Yh ik the hg storyline

[eager island]

i also do remember something like it

not sure

[willow depot]

nvm

he just said that MITH had a different role and he doesn't remember

does note down that he's not a detective officially

[dusty trench]

Yes said in the MegaM interview

[past phoenix]

who wants too make a vid?

[weary hazel]

*to

[limber ridge]

Huh. I'll look that up

Oh he did say that was one of the ideas.

But there were multiple

[wanton roost]

dang guys mr espositos wife is lucy yis mother?

how much do I not know

[limber ridge]

No

His wife is dead

[wanton roost]

Yes then Brenda yi husband left her after the accident right?

then Brenda yi went with Mr esposito cuz they were friends.

maybe I read it wrong idk

[dusty trench]

I think when someone asked about fake neighbor

[limber ridge]

Yh i checked

Interesting stuff

[dusty trench]

Yea. What interesting ideas Hello Neighbor has had.

[ripe berry]

misunderstood smth, nvm

[ripe berry]

#throwback-discussion message

(the thing about Fake Neighbor in question)

[ripe berry]

it's also known MitH was investigating stuff (in the HG Alpha it was the Mayak) but was NOT a Detective

[dusty trench]

Interesting

Imagine if they make bring the idea of fake neighbor in modern times lore, but it’s like the GA Corp and playing into the rumors, like a costume. Or costume created by other people, or like a haunted house attraction, maybe by GA. And someone might use the costume to like trick in a way and to help in some way, maybe stopping or stopping GA Corp, or it can be an employee who is evil.

[dusty trench]

Like not an official detective or investigative journalist, but maybe just hired by someone privately or just doing so himself. Maybe even idea at the time like we theorized now that he was working with Norman Ike and others.

[limber ridge]

I think one of the possible answers for what did Smith want about the mayak was Aaron maybe?

It's a boring but possible answer imo.

[limber ridge]

So who turns on the lights in the mayak hg prototype ending? I assume it's Aaron.

[dusty trench]

That can actually be really interesting. Since, if in that idea he was with puzzle masters, he is trying to find Aaron so they can get him to help them help him and make sure he survives way from cult, and they will have to keep him away from his father because he is super dangerous now and on a path of destruction to destroy raven brooks, and just case destruction there in general, hence the bombs used to destroy the area and get to Mayak. But they don’t want Aaron’s life to be at risk since his father isn’t in the correct okay mindset rn and has gone full psycho, he hires Quentin and Beatrix to help get to Mayak and Make sure Peterson doesn’t explode or destroy anything or accidentally kill his son or anyone around, hence why he ties up Quentin or Beatrix (Quentin in Prototype), he he could lowkey be risking his own life too. Probably exploding so he can get to like the tunnels and the underground weather machines since in this idea it was that when the whole thing happens on Puzzle Master where the tunnels collapse and were blocked off. So years after he is trying to get there. And cult is holding Aaron there so he is trying to get to Aaron too, but in his own way, and if Aaron is dead or dies there or if they idk forced him to be cult, he will destroy the row with machine. Or if he is alive and isn’t forced to be cultist in some way, he won’t destroy Rona but will kill all of them. But he is in rage rn because cultist have his son. He is dressed up as Raven Man costume because he is trying to use what they worship against them, so he makes Guest costume. But they n the end it only makes him like the monster he hates and fears of not only being captured by bad luck but, but becoming. And hence why it’s represented that The Guest is capturing those three kids at the weather station but it was portrayed in a way where it’s like the tale of The Raven Man, but its cult abusing his symbol. Which with this can mean that in this idea, thing of a Raven Man festival fits.

[dusty trench]

So that would mean maybe people who turn on light is cultist. They somehow probably got Mr. Peterson’s book and are hiding in Mayak. And they build a fortress around it to block Peterson away. But Mr. Peterson has his tools and blows it down. And mostly likely the tunnels were already dig up by Peterson considering this idea fits stuff like HN1 which has the space thing that crashed, which I theorized is cause of Mayak most likely caused by Peterson since he uses Mayak more because he understands it and even Eve later the tech a ton. So somehow the cult got Mr. Peterson’s book and now Mayak is there base of operation where thy are holding Aaron.

This shows that even without some stuff I added on that can fit, that elements from many old ideas in HN have been taken and used for the lore.

[limber ridge]

Eh the neighbor's book likely didn't exist at the point of hello guest. I mean that as in out of universe Nikita wasn't thinking of that.

[dusty trench]

I said book because the book is now what we consider our be of the main thing’s of Mr. Peterson’s info, studies in his office. As in the AS lofi animation of Mr. Peterson he draws in that book in office room. Also something mentioned in discussion above about the H&S book with eye belonging to Mr. Peterson, and can be his book in modern lore. But even tho without like the book, they could’ve found out his knowledge of Mayak through blue print stuff, and probably spied on him, and watched around on how he operated stuff. That ca we’ve tie to main lore on how they disc ver Maya tech as well as the book. Al’s back to H&S as the cult is manipulating Mya’s mind in a way, just leading her to her death. I theorized the error trophies are the puzzle master trying to prevent her death but the cult was already ahead. Because Mya is blinded by her imagination, leaving her lore vulnerable as she isn’t trying to think about reality, but the puzzle masters try to bring her the hut she can’t. And she hasn’t learned any other way for her to deal with trauma and stress of reality because he father Mr. Peterson does the same things too, he is blinded by a reality he keeps trying to get to desperately by manipulating the environment behind him. And Mya being manipulated by cult as they watch her, get hints on where the info’s where about are on Mayak and how stuff works. But they have to kill her off in there eyes since thy have to ruin Mr. Peterson life so he doesn’t get closer to taking them down. So why not use one of her best friends that alive, Maritza. Which is what we see in AS. Why they seemed put Mya is because she is more vulnerable because of her imagination and putting herself in a dream reality, so they watch her and use her as a hint before she gets killed to see which of the next people they manipulate next, so they can get the info. So while Nikita didn’t think about the book specifically like AS, it could still be an element of hat even in older times.

[limber ridge]

How exactly does the cult manipulate Mya to her death?

[wanton roost]

I think they manipulate aaron to killing her

right after she falls his face expression changes

Not sure maybe

[dusty trench]

No not that exactly

It’s not like they manipulate Aaron by confronting him in anyway. It’s play out on the background.

[wanton roost]

I dunno the cult got lightning to strike on lucy yi and she's the only one that dies in AS in the books iirc the other ppl didn't die w her it was only focused on lucy and mya got killed by her brother that could probably be the cult bringing some sort of curse into aaron

But I dunno

[limber ridge]

I don't think the cult played any part in the Aaron and Mya thing. Maybe they somehow caused the Diane incident, but i just can't see bad luck or weather or crows somehow causing Aaron to push Mya.

[wanton roost]

I think they made the Diane accident by just running over them with a pizza truck

or just bad luck again

[limber ridge]

Very much possible. Diane incident wouldn't be very much of a stretch.

[wanton roost]

again it's like a loop franklin falling and mya falling

Brother falling sister falling

[dusty trench]

It’s like they are slowly constructing stuff to her death. Like they know Mya is most vulnerable, so they watch closely as we see through the representation of the ravens. And even in game Mya can call for the ravens s to help her get to places when she needs help. And while they aren’t literally flying her, maybe a crow will watch Mya. I theorized before how cultist use magnetic fields to manipulate and guide ravens as we see them circling in sky during some storm event. But Al’s I theorized them feeding ravens or having them as pets. Not only the costumes they wear, but also they feed them and take care of them. Gaming there trust. As Raven’s are smart and capable, they will really need to take care of them to tell them what to do. Like ordering a Raven to do something. And we know they are capable of having animals attack like that are wild with rabies the squirrels, and why not train ravens. As we even see a raven grab the realtors hair and take her to her death. And we know Mya is really interested in animals. And maybe a raven like how Aaron gives hints, gives hints to her in ways. Like how Ravens fly over item’s in HN2 when Quentin loses something. Or she the Ravens create a trail for Quentin to go to the museum. The Guest also being capable of training and convincing raves as I theorized he is one of the pope guiding Quentin for his goal. And cultist Al’s trying to guide Quentin for there goal, both capable of training Ravens. (Isn’t really evidence per se but, Guest has a task in HN2 alphas where he is feeding ravens, mentioned that because atleast it shows ideas of that are present if Guest taking care of ravens, and it would make sense of exult to as well). Or like a Raven cawing at sometime for Mya to get. As they help out Mya until the death happens. Because that’s when cult had them to stop helping, maybe by feeding them most likely or ordering them, as ravens are smart but probably attracted by bird food.

Have the Peterson go back n enough mental anguish and despair, and Aaron goes in rage a starts retaliating out of anger because of Dianes death. And they wait for everything to go as planned, and they use the ravens as tools to constrict everything. Using and convincing there minds just enough to manipulate the victims. The evil look the ravens have like in that scene in AS S2, is the cult’s eyes being represented through the ravens. Showing the power over them, they are watching behind the scenes and the kids don realize but in a way, they have been in the face the whole time.

[dusty trench]

Or maybe another theory I heard that I think is really cool, is that a raven or ravens flew in front of the Peterson’s car quickly. As when Mr. Peterson and Diane look up in shock they turn over to the death, H&S cinematic promo, and AS too kinda, but it like swirls the camera into Mr. Peterson’s face. Also in SN Roblox, right side of the map depicts the car crash and in the background is Guest doing laughing emote in the back. Andy’s I know, Guest isn’t cultist. But if you read over I already explained atleast my view on some of Guest portrayal with that stuff. Mainly about The Guest festival which ties in well, just look that up.

[dusty trench]

I’ve been wondering that faintly but not too much. But now really thinking deep in tho, it ties into my theory just right above in a way. Both deaths constructed by cult, both caused similar outcomes. Both in Peterson family. And made a in depth theory analyses on how cult was behind Franklin’s deaths while back but idk exactly when tho, but ima try and find it if I can remember.

[limber ridge]

Well the cult was pretty much in front of Franklin's death, the 4 kids that killed him are now cultists

[dusty trench]

Yes, but I tied the whole previous storm incident with Gerda which we even tied to the theory we made tying into MITH bloodline and Halloween kids. Cult ordered Gerda to gather more people and to sacrifice someone to unleash the power of Mayak. If the passed the test, thevecaome cultist. Is not a sacrifice. It was going to be Mr. Peterson sacrificed in that moment, until Franklin stepped in to fight for himself. And when Franklin got sent down the hole, it unleashed a glimpse at just how powerful and uncontrollable the Mayak power is. Which means they did it, they unleashed the Mayak power. Cult just needs to know how to work it. That’s where Mr. Peterson comes back into the picture later on.

[dusty trench]

Did you know that it was Mya who was supposed to die instead of Lucy.

[wanton roost]

am back

[wanton roost]

I just remembered that

it was supposed to be mya in the ride

but it was lucy

[limber ridge]

Makes me wonder what would have happened If The neighbor died instead.

[wanton roost]

They even threatened to kill maritzas family though I'm not sure we do see a missing poster in hn3 p3 of ppl go missing in the forest but I'm not sure if that's maritza cuz like she can't be in the same newspaper as franklin

[dusty trench]

Because Norman wanted to make sure no one died, but cult was a little step ahead and someone else had to die because they got a little ahead in that moment, just not the target there looking for. But it kinda led them to getting there goal more in the end.

[limber ridge]

Oh browny on which book are You now?

[dusty trench]

That is very interesting

[limber ridge]

I mean probably stuff wouldn't go too different. Granted Franklin doesn't seem a lot like the inventor type so yk

[wanton roost]

Waking nightmare I think I'm in ch 6 the last stuff I remember from it is nicky and maritza encountering theo and the saying stuff that is so unexpected for me to hear

Like what you mean "come play"

[dusty trench]

I actually believe those people who go missing on that newspaper are Franklin and The Archivist. Archivist is someone we theorized about before. And honestly is a good read to look through. I recommend.

[dusty trench]

Yea

[wanton roost]

archivist? Is she or he smth idk about that's in the books

[dusty trench]

I’ll show you. She’s from HN2 library dlc and rbbarchives

Hold on

Lemme scroll up

[wanton roost]

Cuz I thought that woman was either maritza or Lisa or that girl in bosco Bay book

But I think she'd be a grandma around the time 2028 so

Not sure idk

Actually no probably js a 60 Yr old

[dusty trench]

That girl is Jen. Lisa is Mr. Peterson sister

[wanton roost]

Smth like that

[wanton roost]

Yeah I thought it'd be theos sister cuz like franklin being in the same newspaper as the other girl it's kinda like Lisa was looking for him

[limber ridge]

Where does Bosco Bay take place?

It wasn't Raven Brooks right?

[wanton roost]

wayyy before everything happened in raven brooks I think

[dusty trench]

Archivists. Which me, @limber ridge, @ripe berry, and @hazy slate theorized could be Quentin’s mom. And Guest kid.

[wanton roost]

Like before the family

Of petersons

[limber ridge]

I know it was in like 1983 in terms of time

[dusty trench]

4

[wanton roost]

Why did I not see this before

[limber ridge]

Mayak and Franklin stuff still happened before that.

[wanton roost]

Yes

I think it's basically kind of like

The origin of theo

Lol

[limber ridge]

Bosco Bay?

[wanton roost]

Wait

[limber ridge]

Or smth else?

[wanton roost]

Hold on

[dusty trench]

His motive is Franklin. Bosco Bay is the origin of his future character.

[limber ridge]

Bosco Bay was about his first park iirc

[wanton roost]

yeah

[limber ridge]

Where was it in? Russia?

[wanton roost]

Oh yeah like the evil part of him I think

[dusty trench]

Which was opened in the 1970’s.

[wanton roost]

I'm not sure

[dusty trench]

Also when he went to the island. In 1970’s.

[wanton roost]

I found it but I didn't buy it cuz I think ik what it's about anyway

[limber ridge]

Wasn't it opened at around gn1 time?

[wanton roost]

It's Jen and her cousin looking for her brother

[dusty trench]

No 1970’s

[limber ridge]

Yup. Pretty much.

[dusty trench]

Also we don’t know if Bosco bay is his first (iirc) park but it would make sense.

[limber ridge]

Again, the rides just look awesome. If they existed in real life i would completely go there

Just need better safety features and better people workin on them.

[dusty trench]

And Mr. Peterson

[wanton roost]

How many parks did theo make?

[limber ridge]

Well there was obviously GAAP

[dusty trench]

As far as we know 4

[limber ridge]

Also the Ferneh welt from Germany

[wanton roost]

hm when was he born again?

[limber ridge]

Bosco Bay

[dusty trench]

And the second park in bosco bay

[limber ridge]

The neighbor? 1943

[wanton roost]

And the bosco Bay accident happened in 1983 right?

Or is it unknown

[dusty trench]

1970’s or early 1980’s (iirc)

Jen was younger

[limber ridge]

Also that one park Nicky went in the field trip If my memory serves me correctly

[dusty trench]

Bosco bay she is teenager and takes place 1984

[dusty trench]

Forgot about that one

[wanton roost]

Neighbor was 27 around the accident

[dusty trench]

Sorry bot

[limber ridge]

So that's like 5 parks i believe

[dusty trench]

Yes

[wanton roost]

hmm I think it's his first one

[dusty trench]

Yea, makes sense and adds up to the island period too

[wanton roost]

besides it has nothing to do w the cult and its his mistake

[limber ridge]

Well

[dusty trench]

Yea, not directly. Over all his fault, in disregarding safety feature and running away.

[wanton roost]

Besides after the hn movie we were told we'd probably get more books in the future?

[limber ridge]

There's more than one guy working in park rides. Even If Ted despises saftey features some guy should add them in

[dusty trench]

Yes. But we can’t just take Mr. Peterson out of the picture.

[limber ridge]

Of course

Part was his fault but also on the other people working on them.

[wanton roost]

jen blamed him so much for some reason it kind of pissed me off

[dusty trench]

Also we have to consider the main leading too into the parks.

[dusty trench]

Well of course she would.

[limber ridge]

To quote Norman "not all misfortune is mystical".

[dusty trench]

Nothing is supernatural

[limber ridge]

Eh

[dusty trench]

Nothing

[limber ridge]

Nikita could have been joking a Little.

[wanton roost]

Ah ah ah

Now hold on

[limber ridge]

Like adding this emoji " " could imply a joke there

[wanton roost]

"Nothing is supernatural in raven brooks "

Is what nikita said

[limber ridge]

Granted people were talking alot about it and Nikita didn't Tell anyone he was kidding so likely was serious.

[wanton roost]

But we're talking about bosco Bay right? Or whatever who Norman is

[dusty trench]

All of the evidence we have to rn points to no supernatural. And Alex even says gay AS is grounded in terms of what it actually is. Like what’s actually going on.

[wanton roost]

Thag lives there

[limber ridge]

In any case mistical is the word Norman used so i had to quote accurately If i was gonna quote

[wanton roost]

we just gotta wait for a month or two until season 3 for the supernatural argument

[dusty trench]

Said to be not supernatural at all

By Alex

Even Guest

[wanton roost]

yes but alot of people don't agree w that still that's why I said argument

[dusty trench]

For some reason

[limber ridge]

I can get behind not believing everything in Raven Brooks is non-supernatural. But i don't get why people deny all the guest isn't supernatural statements

[dusty trench]

Yea that’s the main thing

[limber ridge]

We got em from Adam, Nikita and Alex.

[dusty trench]

Everything else, sure I guess

[limber ridge]

Nikita and Alex repeated it a few times too.

[wanton roost]

I think in hn vr it's just the kids hallucination seeing the guest do stuff like that

I dunno man besides I think before season 2 released some ppl said we'd get a therapy episode

[limber ridge]

Yeah. Hallucination, dream, weird angles, symbolism, plethora of ways to go about it

[dreamy sluice]

nah the freaky floating purple areas are 100% real

the neighbor told me

[dusty trench]

I have so much yap text to add onto that.

[dreamy sluice]

his house just looks like that

[limber ridge]

Guys Aris is right, i was there as the neighbor's mustache

[wanton roost]

Ain't that guests pov

wym by purple floating stuff

[dreamy sluice]

not to my knowledge

[dusty trench]

In S&R

[dreamy sluice]

unless the guest has child hands

[wanton roost]

Have I officially lost it

[dusty trench]

The storm in sky, stuff floating around no gravity.

Flying papers, upside down room.

[wanton roost]

ohh now I get it

[dusty trench]

No supernatural stuff

I a sense where it’s not what’s happening on outside reality. Since HN is kinda like folklore, tales and stories. People perceive them different.

[wanton roost]

I mean it's the guest world I don't think we know what it's about yet

[limber ridge]

Guest world was originally a purely imaginative world. They are prolly still using that but in a different way.

[dusty trench]

In files those are called dream world

[dusty trench]

But yes

[wanton roost]

so I guess they faint and neighbor finds them and put them in the cages while they dream

[limber ridge]

Wait was guest world supposed to be the weird twisted version of RB Nikita is talking about in Megam interview or some other dimension?

[dusty trench]

No

[limber ridge]

Well it's possible.

[dusty trench]

Possible but not in that way

[limber ridge]

Just not my first thought.

[wanton roost]

It's hard to make it different but this

[limber ridge]

Wait what perspective is VR even from. It's like completely different from the show which is from kids' perspective

[wanton roost]

Also I gtg guys gotta eat

[dusty trench]

K bye 👋

[dreamy sluice]

isn't show exclusively trinity?

[wanton roost]

Cya loved talking with yall ill get back soon

[dusty trench]

K

[limber ridge]

Tada

[dusty trench]

I believe S&R is Aaron’s perspective

[dreamy sluice]

i see, thank you

[dusty trench]

Or Ivan’s.

[dreamy sluice]

i didn't know this message was a thing

[dusty trench]

And HE is Enzo.

[limber ridge]

Although he also said it's Trinity's perspective

[dreamy sluice]

🤔 who dat

[dusty trench]

Inventor

[dreamy sluice]

ah

makes sense, they're like sorta the main guy in the treehouse in that game

[dusty trench]

But honestly there is a ton for Aaron aswell

[dreamy sluice]

the movie is actually mya's perspective as she's buried in the ground rn

[dusty trench]

Yes

Hire @dreamy sluice TB

[limber ridge]

Wait movie is Nicky's perspective and Imbir is the protagonist.

[dusty trench]

YAAAY

Imbir the goat

[limber ridge]

So the correct way to go about it is hn1 is Imbir's perspective and Nicky is the MC

[dusty trench]

Wat

[limber ridge]

200 IQ theorising that's what

[dreamy sluice]

21 year old cat??

xamn

[dusty trench]

Your so tuff

TB, also hire @limber ridge

[dreamy sluice]

imbir heavy drinking scene in the hn movie

[dusty trench]

https://tenor.com/view/absolute-cinema-wavefront-peak-peak-vr-peak-cinema-gif-11622198235961314216

Btw, I made a Imbir theory a long while ago

[limber ridge]

Oh. All eyes If You wanna share it.

[dusty trench]

Ima find it

These text wall’s

I could add on

I want opinions first tho

[limber ridge]

My friend once made a joke theory like this but the way You explain it makes sense.

[dusty trench]

I first seen this Imbir theory as a joke but I thought wait, that makes some form of sense.

[dusty trench]

Thank you 🙏 I be trying my best lowkey.

[limber ridge]

It's all very cool just not something i personally believe.

[dusty trench]

Respectable

[dusty trench]

Imbir bar fight scene sonic style

[dusty trench]

Wait idk if it’s actually said in book when it opens or when the incident happens. I thought it was 1970’s because of the flashback when she was a little kid and Joe was there and he was like you found me which I associated more into her looking back at the time period he disappeared. And that the time period where Joe died. And the Joe ghost looking exactly like the flashback, while Jen has 3 portraits in the back of one of the shots showing different periods of her life growing up, and one of them is when she is at current age period. So since not 1970’s, then it can mean that Mr. Peterson could’ve had 6 parks because of the island incident. So they building park in late 1970’s, and released early 1980’s. The park has been working in having new attraction’s to release over time since this was a limited test ride, so Joe could’ve went missing early 1980’s, or in early 1984 when the book takes place. Which this makes more sense with Jen’s character and for her investigation.

So that would make 6 parks most likely.

[limber ridge]

I wonder how was Ted able to use the device luck without a storm.

[ripe berry]

I'd also group in RavenBrooksCitizen for the whole thing because-
ok, I will admit, me and him had most of the ideas awhile back (I think I indirectly mentioned that he gave some of the ideas...?), but I figured it'd be better to introduce the ideas more naturally because, tbh, I was worried everything would just get dismissed as irrelevant or drawing conclusions where there is none (especially with connecting the Museum to the Librarians), so I guess I wanted to see if someone else could reach or accept the ideas me and RBC had.
(although some things like the heart room thing I realized a few days ago, the shared clothing between Quentin and MJ which also matched a color palette Beatrix has, or the Guest Kid bit)
😅 sorry for not telling you until now.

[limber ridge]

You outright said he came up with many of the ideas sometimes.

Like here.

[vagrant igloo]

guest kid was ted

[limber ridge]

That was back in hn2 alphas.

[ripe berry]

yeah fair, just making sure some of the credit goes where it's due

(🤦how did I forget I already gave him some of the credit)

[limber ridge]

Yeah that totally makes sense.

Just saying it's not too much of a problem because there is some credit in the conversation.

[ripe berry]

you know, it's funny
me and RBC also already had the idea of the Librarians possibly being tied to the Museum and founding of Raven Brooks, and I almost swore off mentioning it
until you connected the Librarians to the image of the Tavish family from earlier in the chat yourself and had created the perfect setup for me to bring it up.
straight up felt like this

anyways back to lore discussing

[ripe berry]

Guest Kid's identity has changed quite a few times

in HGP it was just some random person

(yes the HGP Kids ARE an early version of the Trick or Treaters)

#old-rbo-discussion message

[safe charm]

Btw Mike do you Think Nicky and Aaron being friend’s is a game Thing?

Cause it isnt in AS for example

[ripe berry]

HND

need I say anything else?

[safe charm]

I Think it depends on if you take hnd as a Book based game or a game game

Like its a mainline game

[safe charm]

Btw the hn2 beta has remnants of the old story

From the alpha’s

With the guest kid suit being in mr Peterson house

[ripe berry]

it was originally a HN1 Content Expansion so take of that what you will

[safe charm]

Oh yeah

Forgot

[ripe berry]

yeah I realized that

[safe charm]

I still Think its odd how AS is talked like its Trying to be accurate to the story told

But it Really isnt like at all

[limber ridge]

Was it ever said to be that outside of guest identity?

I mean

It was stated as canon.

But that doesn't mean it fits in linearly.

[safe charm]

Alex Said it was the definitive version of the story

And that the hn2 writters were working close with the AS writers to make it all cohesive

[ripe berry]

it skips over things that aren't relevant to it's story
just because we never see Nicky being friends with Aaron doesn't mean it didn't happen

[limber ridge]

Oh. Was it in that one tweet?

[safe charm]

Yeah

[limber ridge]

Ah.

[safe charm]

Also

[ripe berry]

Trinity doesn't know that so from her perspective it doesn't happen

[safe charm]

This is odd

[ripe berry]

(or if she did she forgot)

[safe charm]

Cause Nikita still sees Books as canon

But here alex sorta talks like they retconned them

[limber ridge]

Not really.

[safe charm]

Or am i

Not thinking About it right😅

[limber ridge]

Maybe he gives of that vibe, but all he's really saying here is that they used a different story because books weren't fit for animation.

Actually the question he is replying to would imply the books are scrapped.

[safe charm]

Yeah

But we now know their still Canon so maybe they changed their minds on that

[limber ridge]

But it's more so an implication rather than what he outright says.

In fact Alex said himself that everything is canon didn't he?

[safe charm]

More as a joke

Often

Like ik a jokey way

[limber ridge]

I mean true

[safe charm]

Nikita Said it seriously

[ripe berry]

all Alex says is they scrapped adapting the books story because as shown by the AS Pilot they don't exactly work in animation

[limber ridge]

"everything's canon and we're all gonna die"

Or stuff like that.

[safe charm]

Btw i still Wonder how hn2 works with AS

Since doesnt mr Peterson go to jail?

And we know AS and hn2 was Tied very closely

[limber ridge]

But he also said stuff like "canon is a flexible term" and that the linear mediums are semi-canon. So i think he means it seriously too.

[ripe berry]

you see
there's a police evidence marker in the basement
which implies that the Basement was unlocked at one point when the police arrive
but it only makes sense for the puzzles to have been set up before the police arrived

[ripe berry]

thus implying an unseen time the police were at Ted's House
one where the cops may have arrested him

[limber ridge]

Either they messed up.
Or it's related to that explanation they were teasing Since like 2020 and still haven't revealed.

[ripe berry]

and then as seen in the AS Trinity breaks him out leading to HN2's Intro and the cops heading back to investigate the house

[glacial whale]

I hope the cancelled hn2 stuff wasn’t the way they were going to connect it to AS because then we wouldn’t really know.

[ripe berry]

which also fixes an error between HNVR and HN2 where Ted seems to be chased by the cops during the day in HNVR, implictly not long after Nicky escapes, but it's nighttime and the cops still haven't arrived in HN2

[limber ridge]

Yeah there's like nothing to suggest mr Teaserpon wasn't arrested before hn2

Briefly

[ripe berry]

I personally believe at the time it was just time loops but now it's both time loops AND perspective stuff

[limber ridge]

I kinda think the opposite

[ripe berry]

???

[limber ridge]

Perspective-y stuff then time loops.

[ripe berry]

fair

it depends on which thing you want to prioritize

[limber ridge]

The first time this explanation was talked about was by Nikita no?

Nikita himself said he doesn't use time loops that much. Also pretty sure it was a thing before reset day, which might be when they wanted to add some extra explanation.

Oh, but there's the mayak statement which goes unexplained then.

[ripe berry]

like
the Act 3 House in AS is an example of something caused by perspectives
but Nicky's eyes going from Blue to Brown despite HND making it seem like his eyes were always brown or Mrs. Esposito being alive in the AS but not in the books is due to time loops

[limber ridge]

Wait wait wait. So If As and games are the same... Loop? Cycle? Timeline? Whatever we call it. And books after it, would that mean hn3 is before books or do we make an exception for that?

[ripe berry]

or the lack of mention of Nicky being friends with Aaron in the AS is due to perspective
but Trinity being unable to experience the Aaron Trilogy in the AS is time loops

[ripe berry]

exception due to being the latest entry in the timeline

just like how Bosco Bay is an exception due to being the earliest entry in the timeline

[limber ridge]

Alright yeah that adds up.

[ripe berry]

(even then I'm not 100% sure about things because HND is a game but under that idea it best fits in the books loop rather then the games one)

[limber ridge]

What If there are games that tie more into books and games that tie more into AS

Like HN2 more into AS, HND more into books.

[ripe berry]

SN falls under something similar of fitting better with the books loop because SN implicitly has the Neighbor's House still standing like RD when we know in HN2 and HN1 it's burned down
(due to the badge about abandoned ruins depicting Ted's house in SN)

SN also has a GAAP layout more akin to the Books then to HE
meanwhile AS appears to follow and be expanded from the HE layout

[ripe berry]

it also makes sense since Hello Engineer is where the method to make time loops was originally discovered by Theodore

so of course things that seem to be from before the looping (like the AS) would use the HE layout rather than the books one

[limber ridge]

HE would be Enzo perspective, AS season 3 would be from Trinity perspective.

Is there any way to explain away the visible Shadowman from AS?

[ripe berry]

TRUE
Enzo is basically the main character of Hello Engineer if the cutscenes are anything to go by
he's the one who gave the idea to go to the Park
he's the only one who seems to notice when the kids are sent to the Sandbox

[ripe berry]

well, the Guidebook means that to some degree the Thing is an existing urban legend in Raven Brooks
so a drawing of it's not too far fetched
plus HN has a tendency to overlay feelings and thoughts ontop of reality

[limber ridge]

Though it's interesting how Finch and Delroy are forgotten by Enzo but not Trinity. Guess them 2 played a more important role for Trinity.

[ripe berry]

like with the mere existence of the Act 3 House in the AS (the extensions are more likely just what's seen in HNVR)
or every stage in HNHS

or the Thing itself in HN1

or every level in Hello Engineer

[limber ridge]

Like silent hill in a way i suppose. Just that there the thoughts and emotions are actually manifested physically, whereas they are metaphors and other stuff in HN

[ripe berry]

like- if you pay attention, at least in Stage 1 of HNHS, you can figure out exactly where most parts of the stage correlate to in the actual house.

(never got around to trying that on Stages 2-4 though)

or like-
Stage 4 has a zombie theming because Mya and Aaron are still coping with death
and in Stage 5 Mya doesn't even want to play anything so it simply shows a distorted version of the Peterson Household itself

[limber ridge]

Which stage was the one with fire? 3?

[ripe berry]

yeah

[limber ridge]

What if it's related to the GAAP burndown

[ripe berry]

1 was safari
2 was cops and robbers
3 was firefighting
4 was zombies and the graveyard
5 was distorted peterson household

[limber ridge]

2 is about corruption in town with figures of power being cultists maybe.

[ripe berry]

(4 straight up has Diane's grave somewhere iirc)

[limber ridge]

Although cult was likely not planned by then, but like retroactively.

[ripe berry]

even if not intentional, it does make some kind of sense since some parts of HN1 and HNHS feel like they were seeds planted to be expanded on if the game gained more entries

[limber ridge]

Which parts of HN1?

[ripe berry]

oddly detailed background house that feels like it could retroactively belong to MitH/MJ for one

also the "Dlub Yaits" (Blood Ties) nightmare having an amusement park background (retroactively the GAAP)

[limber ridge]

Ahh

I see

[ripe berry]

and also from HNHS the occult book used to create some Zombies to give a couple brains from the bushes in Stage 4 could be a precursor to the book Peterson has in AS or a retroactive hint to the Cult
and also the crow and eye stuff in HN1/HNHS

all of those are things were set up through HN1 and HNHS before being expanded on in future media

(and I almost forgot the Golden Apple itself is one of those things)

(set up in HN1, expanded via the books, HN2, and AS)

[limber ridge]

Did Nikita contribute to Aaron triliogy and Reset day?

I think yeah because he played part in GN1 too.

[ripe berry]

I think so yeah

they were working closely to make everything cohesive in 2020 iirc

[ripe berry]

now, was everything planned the exact way we have it now? No.
but I do think they took details from the early games and expanded on them later

[limber ridge]

Is there any way to figure out character heights?

[dreamy sluice]

you could check the mesh dimensions in blender but with all the proportion changes and such i feel like that's very unreliable

hn1 neighbour_lowpoly is 6'4"

but they changed the door size (which makes peterson look extremely short) and in turn the size of new assets

and god knows how tall hn3 peterson is

[ripe berry]

in buried secrets isn't there a mention of Aaron being 5 foot 5 on a missing poster?

[dreamy sluice]

is the neighbor ten foot tall??

kid is half his father's height in-game

[limber ridge]

Didn't he reach to his shoulder?

[dreamy sluice]

no, i checked before i sent that

he's half his height

i'd send an image but i have no embeds

[limber ridge]

🙁 i felt that

I'm looking at an image rn and he is only like a Little under his shoulder

[charred wharf]

I can send for you

[dreamy sluice]

actually no it's less that and more like two thirds his height

[limber ridge]

Ah

Yeah two thirds is about right.

Does that make Mr Teaserpon 7 foot?

[dreamy sluice]

guy gained an extra 8 inches between versions

[limber ridge]

There's one hn3 devlog that has a chart iirc and he looked about 2 metres/6'7

[dreamy sluice]

guy gained an extra three inches between versions