lore-discussion

[dusty trench]

Could be a little bit of that

[limber ridge]

Hmm. Well maybe it disappeared later.

Like in hn3 the town seemingly is still there

And You can even take a bus to there, as protagonist does in intro.

Also could just be a hn1 act 3 situation where they just made a mistake with the dates and such. It's a prototype too, where they are more focused on gameplay rather than Lore too, so that might just be a placeholder date

[dusty trench]

Yea true

[dusty trench]

When in act 3 was that? Forgot

[limber ridge]

What i mean by hn1 act 3 situation is how Nikita both said act 3 takes place around 19 years after act 2, and that it takes place in 2017.

With the first claims we get to 2015

With the second we get to... Well, 2017

[dusty trench]

@limber ridge what if this ties into that in some way.

[little lodge]

What makes you think AS happens in original timeline and books happen after time loops? You say all events happen in both timelines, but what makes them different if everything is just the same?

[little lodge]

I've read Stage Play Theory, but I don't really get why time loops affect things like this? Like why does it affect whether Nicky goes to the GAAP factory before Act 1 or not? Why is it seen as such an important event, along with being referred to by Norman Darby?

[ripe berry]

I see AS as Trinity's distorted memory of the original timeline because of the whole Nicky's Eyes going from Blue to Brown in the AS thing
(when the eyes are shown in Diaries to be brown in a photo from around the time of Missing Pieces (which is also why I put the books in the timeloop alongside Norman Darby knowing the future)

[glacial whale]

You think him coming back from the mental hospital after whatever loops stuff happens is like book 1 or whatever and he thinks he’s just moving in?

[dusty trench]

Yea I agree with this

[limber ridge]

Do time loops really explain Nicky's eye color?

[ripe berry]

it provides a explanation at least for why that happens

[round mango]

hi

[glacial whale]

Never thought it’d ever get to the point of using time loops to explain Nicky’s eye color

As a topic here I mean

It just sounds funny

[dusty trench]

I actually love this because it can tie I no how metaphorical symbols and sci fi can connect to each other in HN so I actually like this theory and it makes sense. Like the fact that your eyes can appear darker because of fear & trauma in real life because when you experience intense emotions like fear, excitement, love, your body ca have noticeable physical reactions, including your eye pupils the black dots in the middle can change size which in turn can make your eye appear darker. And also it just fits Hello Neighbor to take inspiration from this & completely exaggerate it by changing the eye color completely. And tiny it with what was said about they time loop tiring in too Mae’s so much sense.

[little lodge]

How exactly does that explain why Nicky's eyes become brown completely for the second timeline without a transition?

[dusty trench]

@little lodge I think this can tie in a bit

[limber ridge]

It does but what You said Ties more into perspective theory, Mike is suggesting that time loops explain the eye color thing instead.

[dusty trench]

I was saying that perspective theory and stage play theory can connect to each other. Like metaphor’s can connect to and represent sci fi stuff.

Like there can be two explanations plantations on both ends for stuff, perspective & loops.

[limber ridge]

Well it can. But Mike was saying the time loop stuff specifically explains the eyes.

[ripe berry]

well how else would you explain the eyecolor thing

also clearly the loops aren't perfect due to Book 3 splitting Act 1 between 2 days

[limber ridge]

Trinity remembered Nicky's eyes as a lighter colour to go with his more care-free(?) demeanor, then after trauma She noticed they were Brown a lot more.

[dusty trench]

I still do believe Trinity try is looking back at a memory that’s distorted by her fear & trauma. And also the memory is from the original loop in the timeline which fan make sense and add more depth to games like HE in the kid view and S&R with the clock representation a ton. A can make sense to the way they are portraying the AS since there can be a larger point of view like the cell phones and technology in AS, and the way that they portray stuff and characters. And a deeper reason behind the technology presented in HN mainly AS because cell phones which can be a hint at some advanced technology like the loop being at play here, manipulating everything. And later on after the first loop period that how Norman knows stuff that is going to happen in the future but what would that mean for other characters. It would make sense AS is a distorted memory from the original loop period that is distorted by fear which we get hints like cell phones which tell us that it’s a memory, and that some more advanced technology is at play. And that can add more to games like HE S&R and even HN2 since it can explain a lot of the metaphors in ways that those games portray the story. Which I feel like they are point in something bigger with the loops and the timeline.

[minor brook]

so I have a question, if HNAS is in the same universe as the games, when did Aaron go missing? because in the game we obv see Peterson locking Aaron in the basement, but in the show we never see that, it's only talked about and even at that barely, Aaron is mentioned in the pilot more than season 1 or 2

[marsh idol]

because hes in the basement

[minor brook]

yes obv, what I mean is, they don't mention him at all, it could be because it's mostly following Trinity and if it was following Nicky we'd hear about him but it's just a little weird

[dusty trench]

Why it’s not really portraying Aaron Mya & others from events of Aaron trilogy in the AS view is because Trinity is being put in Nicky’s shoes, and she is also like a curious citizen like Nicky who is trying to uncovering this stuff, like Nicky uncovering Peterson’s secrets and what happened before got to town, which Aaron was also hiding out of fear & trauma. What Trinity being put in Nicky’s shoes is why she is depicted as being right next to Nicky’s house across the street even tho in games and books that is never hinted at, and the fact that she is portrayed as new to town. And many more stuff I can point out. She is trying to understand what Nicky went through, and why not Aaron is because of her immense fear of Peterson that she feel like she can’t get to Aaron anymore all because of well, everything that has happened. Since Aaron was hidden away by Peterson, and she is so afraid that it’s hard to over come that fear. That’s why in AS we only heard him crying, an seen a shadow of him running away before his father seen him. The AS is depicting Trinity’s mindset looking back at events of the past, but it’s distorted by fear trauma and other stuff ti have fear suffer her, like HN1 Act 2. That’s why we see stuff like cell phones, which can hint at her body outside of this mindset depiction of the past is in the late or mid 2000’s. It also hints at stuff like time loops, since in HE & S&R we get hints of time and time manipulation in those games a lot like the clock puzzle in S&R with the gears and even weather which all hints at mayak, and the fact that in the end of HE Mr. Peterson traps the kids in a timeloop and they escape in sandbox. And this shows that even after the time loop or the events of the past in general, that she is still haunted by fear, just like Nicky. And it’s kind of like Reset day in a way where the story depicted in her mindset as Piper Delia and their mom are trapped in a time loop, and that story is also portrayed super metaphorically.

[dusty trench]

I believe this is a good explanation for this theory.

[minor brook]

oh, that makes a lot of sense

I was always under the assumption that the HN world they had more developed tech as an explination for the phones but it being distorted memories makes way more sense and explains the contradictions from the games and books

[dusty trench]

Don’t forget, when we view characters mindsets, we get distorted memories, or we see there mindset right during the event metaphorically (like this), metaphors for the audience view such as the thing. And especially that we have to solve the metaphorical symbols to understand the actual events of what’s going on, but also understand characters and there motives and behavior, there perspective. And also understand the technologies such as the time loops, luck devices, weather machines. And time loops are hugely important to the timeline of the series and where things actually take place. Since the loops most likely happened way earlier than we think. We salve metaphorical symbols in characters mindsets to understand there perspective so in turn we understands the events and what’s actually going on in the story. We’ll also learn how technologies like the luck devices and weather machines work to drive the story further, and figure out the over all timeline placements.

[minor brook]

I def gotta get back into HN, i just got the first three books so I don't know everything about the lore

[dusty trench]

HN book chronological order:

GN1 (The Secret of Bosco Bay graphic novel)

Aaron trilogy:
Hello Neighbor Bad Blood, Hello Neighbor Grave Mistakes, Hello Neighbor Puzzle Master

Nicky trilogy:
Hello Neighbor Missing Pieces, Hello Neighbor Waking Nightmare, Hello Neighbor Buried Secrets

GN2 (Raven Brooks Disaster graphic novel)

Hello Neighbor Reset Day

[minor brook]

I got the Nicky Series, I plan on getting the Aaron Trilogy soon and I used to have bosco bay but I have no clue where it went so I plan on buying the 2 graphic novels along side Reset day

[dusty trench]

Yea I love the books

[limber ridge]

We heard him crying i guess

[zealous falcon]

So does this mean that the guest and the other entities are not concrete? I mean not real??

[zealous falcon]

No it's soft canon

What are the time loops??

Will someone explain it to me?

And the storm event?

And where is Aaron after HN 2?

Oh is it?

I like that book btw

[marsh idol]

we don’t know what happened to aaron

[zealous falcon]

But I can't understand the ending in which the main character's mother was murdered by the cult members.

[zealous falcon]

Oh

@minor brook The AS is soft canon

[marsh idol]

i just woke up so my brain is still fuzzy but in hello neighbor, time loops are a mix of technology, memory, and psychology: moments tied to MAYAK and related devices can trap people in repeating states, the same events, fears, or situations replay because characters keep being pulled back to a traumatic or pivotal moment, either through controlled environments (like Peterson’s experiments, amusement park setups, or engineered disasters) or through mental fixation and manipulation; the world doesn’t rewind cleanly, but people experience life as if it’s stuck, reliving the same patterns until they break free or collapse, which is why loops only show up around major turning points (saving Nicky, the park incident, Reset Day, Raven Brooks itself), making “time loops” less about clocks and more about being unable to move forward.

[zealous falcon]

Ohkk

Do u mean the death of Lucy yi by the park incident?

[marsh idol]

yea

[zealous falcon]

Ohkk

Who is the guest actually like what do u think? I think it's a demon like entity and a godlike figure to the cult members.

[zealous falcon]

The thing u actually said in here satisfies my brain and many confusions in the lore of hello neighbour I had is gone thanks alot...

[marsh idol]

well you know the rule that there is nothing supernatural within hello neighbor, correct?

[zealous falcon]

I knew it but later a random ahh utuber gaslighted me into believing that this rule is wrong.

[zealous falcon]

So what is the guest actually or who is the guest actually?

[marsh idol]

there is going to be a lot of things in hello neighbor that will make you question the rule, but ultimately it’s either intense metaphors and symbolism or sci fi

[zealous falcon]

Ohhhh

[zealous falcon]

Now ic it

Thanks alot

And what's he GAAP 😭

I'm stuck in 2023 when it comes to hn lore

I forgot that this game even existed

[marsh idol]

as for the guest, we don’t know

but i theorized that he may not be human. and yes that still is not supernatural, folklore creatures are not supernatural

but why would the Guest be this creature? and what could it be?

first off it would be a humanoid crow of course, secondly:

it would just make no sense for the guest’s identity to be some random character we don’t care about, right? it’s not peterson anymore. the hat person is just a boring reveal. anyone else too, it just doesn’t feel right for the guest.

we don’t fully know anything about the guest, but i like to think he could be a humanoid crow

[zealous falcon]

Like the schnabelperchten right?

[marsh idol]

exactly

which is the inspiration of the guest

[zealous falcon]

And the vandals are some edgy teenagers who like to mess with ppl

Ig

[zealous falcon]

Ohh

[zealous falcon]

Ikr

[marsh idol]

ye

WTRB s3 will give us the most information on the guest

[zealous falcon]

I will really appreciate if someone will explain the a to z lore of hn 😭

[zealous falcon]

Ohhh

[zealous falcon]

Ohh

[marsh idol]

golden apple amusement

[zealous falcon]

Ohhh

[marsh idol]

a amusement park

very essential to the lore

[zealous falcon]

Yea ik

[zealous falcon]

Where the bad things happened like the accident

[marsh idol]

yes

[marsh idol]

i can give you a quick in-depth background

#lore-discussion message

[zealous falcon]

Oh k

Lemme check

[marsh idol]

#lore-discussion message
and this for the forest protectors alone

though it’s more expansive than factual

the forest protectors do what they do because they want fame and money

[zealous falcon]

Woww it was really helpful

[zealous falcon]

Ohh

I gtg

Bye and thanks u r the best man 👍

[limber ridge]

Yh, Reset day takes place in 2021, and hn3 in 2028. We know where reset day takes place because the concrete from the GAAP(1996) is said to be 25 years old.

[limber ridge]

I think everything is like a soft canon atp, If perspectives/memories are the explanation for inconsistencies. Though, there's also time loops that can still be the can tie into this.

[limber ridge]

I could try to make a brief timeline of stuff we know.

So Raven Brooks is the town where it takes place, it was founded by the Tavish Society which are part of a cult that dresses in corvid costumes and do rituals using devices during storms that can give good luck to those that have them and bad luck to those who don't. This also makes the storms more severe. So at one point, these 2 meteorologists, Roger and Adele Peterson(husband and wife) try to study this weather. So they make a weather station for that. They find out about the devices, and The cult doesn't like this very much. So they get Roger and Adele arrested, presumably with help from the luck devices.

They have a son, which is the neighbor before being arrested. He moves out of Raven Brooks eventually and becomes an amusement park designer. However most of his rides malfunction, killing people. He has a wife and 2 kids. They eventually move back to Raven Brooks. There, the Mayor(part of the cult btw) has a deal with Peterson to make him an amusement park. The golden apple amusement park.

However, a ride in this park also malfunctions, killing a Young girl. This ruins the reputation of the Petersons. Later on, the neighbor's wife Diane dies in a car crash, the Petersons are depressed, his son, Aaron especially, seeing as to how he accidentally pushed his sister, Mya off the house roof, killing her. The neighbor buries the daughter and locks his son in the basement to prevent him being taken away to who knows where. However, there's this kid Nicky Roth that lives next door to the neighbor. He Heard a struggle between the neighbor and his son,and tries to get in the basement and find out what's going on. He breaks in the house and eventually gets in the basement, where he is locked for a while, until he escapes, whether that îs due to the neighbor's son or his other friends is sort of hard to Say.

But Nicky moves out once he escapes and The Neighbor goes into hiding from the police.

The neighbor and his son hide in the museum, until a journalist named Quentin arrives and tries to free the son. He succeds however a large statue Falls on the neighbor's back, the son stays behind to help and Quentin is captured by the cult.

Nicky returns home like 2 decades later after being evicted from his apartment and confronts his trauma. Few years after that and The guest now has control of time loops in unknown circumstances. The town is on lock down due to seismic testing too.

There are a few events i didn't mention due to unsure about how exactly they went and their place in the timeline. For example, the Raven Brooks Disaster graphic novel, where the neighbor has used the mayak to cause a flood. Or hello engineer, where the friends of Nicky i mentioned go in the Golden Apple amusement park to make a vehicle for an inventor contest, the neighbor is also there, trying to cause time loops.

[limber ridge]

Some of this events could be twisted by imagination, faulty memory and metaphors, by the way.

[zealous falcon]

Wow thanks @limber ridge

[zealous falcon]

@limber ridge soo the time loops are some kind of incidents?

[limber ridge]

I guess. It's pretty unclear how exactly they work but the neighbor was able to activate them using machinery in the ending of hello engineer iirc.

[dusty trench]

That’s in the first campaign before the sandbox campaign which is actual ending after that first one. Kids escape the park. But that cutscene is a good way to mask the ending and have a playable open world sandbox, where there’s many secrets and then actual ending.

[limber ridge]

Is the sandbox campaign about the time loops?

[dusty trench]

Yea sandbox campaign they are trying to escape the loop and in HE in the background of the cutscene Mr. Peterson’s them in a loop you see it portrays the inventors club getting transported to the time loop, and even with a clock drawing on tha wall with a clock moving backwards and even an infinity symbol showing he wants to trap them there forever or considers it, and even drawings next to that stuff of lightning and a storm which is interesting. But yea at the sandbox mode we see tons of Easter eggs to Lucy Yi, the park, Guest even with his statue, and other stuff of him all over sandbox including a mini Guest figure being on the car kids have in HE which is also interesting to me. References to most likelythe cult and there rituals on drawings too with ravens and stuff shaped in a circle with stick figures standing in it, drawings of eyes, and the sci fi stuff even what looks like a big bang drawing which is interesting. Btw not all the stuff I mentioned are just in sandbox some are inside of the more linear first campaign. At the end the kids escape the park and it’s represented as the kid’s using a rocket ship which I believe shows them learning the tech like muck devices, weather machines, and how to manipulate the tech so they can escape Peterson’s loop. Which this ending was hinted in SN rocket event. You have to find a bunch of plastic blocks in gameplay solve puzzle and get past courses to get pieces to the ship. When I mean a lot of plastic, I means A TON. The credits show the kids throughout the first chapter’s campaign and sandbox mode taking photos and they look happier, and the trophy they earned and even showing a picture of Maritza Lucy and Mya which is also in sandbox. Even drawings of stuff you find in game, Imbir, and even notes and even what looks to be math equations and other scientific stuff, keyboard lights and other stuff made from scrap either hanging around if on a shelf. Blueprints everywhere have the stuff and even of them building.

[dusty trench]

Also btw Peterson’s board with his plan of trapping the kids and even what seems to be taking control of weather maybe to stop the cult ritual so he control it’s to make sure they don’t get control, and could even be Mr. Peterson considering losing hope since he is already getting more cooler and dangerous as the story goes on, it can hint at that too. Even in the boss which looks like a canon version of the mill in dessert a Act 2, where Peterson is on a train and it’s constructing a machine that is generating that purple lightning Mayak energy, also the scene in Act 1 him testing Mayak energy portrayed with vehicles and rides of such which is interesting. But yea the board in the kids getting trapped scene is also in the dessert act in first campaign in backgrounds of cutscenes, there’s secrets of the other stuff too like secret office room in act 1 with a repeating video of Mr. Peterson configuring with a machine that’s in that room, which leads me to believe that the video is showing the room that video is found in.

@limber ridge The way they pan out in the cutscene is similar to this SN winter trailer. After that’s why it takes you directly to sandbox after beating those. https://youtu.be/blucW7_rvJk?si=QZO2-cpWReSuZGUd

This really brings out that stage play vibe being portrayed in a metaphorical way to represent what’s going on. Something bigger at play, constructing what behind the scene in this view. I believe showing the kids mindset distorted by fear and the outlook on Peterson and stuff going on, which can also show the thing of kids losing track of time because of the loop and also memories distorted by fear that they aren’t thinking much.

[dusty trench]

@limber ridge a really interesting theory is this

And yes while it says as his lab rats, in a way he was but kids didn’t know, while also trapping them. Also using them in a way as decouples so he can understand more technology which is what we see in game, because he is watching them tamper with stuff as we know he is trying to understand how time loops and storm stuff works so he can have full control, which can explain a little bit of the first part being linear with next being fully open, became the kids are using the tech against Peterson instead of unknowingly being brainwashed in a way to follow his trick.

@Frigid this adds on too

This referring to the cutscenes

You can read this discussion too because it’s pretty accurate

Also the fact that the van is in the sandbox map.

[dusty trench]

The one I send are this one counties off of it btw

This one

[dusty trench]

This one is reference but they could make it a character lol

[near cosmos]

@eager glade

Ops

Alr gone

[dusty trench]

Most of the chalk drawings are in game still

But they were made at the time

Why I bring up this original story for HE is because well, it was teased in the books which are canon. And I feel like it ca show some ideas that have been thought of being present. Not saying it as canon but, something else.

The picture used is in Hello Neighbor Waking Nightmare

This one is in Hello Neighbor Bad Blood

Maybe in canon it isn’t just some random inventor. It probably was Mr. Peterson. Mr. Peterson has a picture of this island that was on a news paper in his book that has phone numbers of people he knows, and where the kids find Lisa’s number.

And Mr. Peterson created the time loops. Because in GN2 he talks about wanting to fix the past, which shows his motive for creating it.

The idea of him creating them is influenced from this

[dusty trench]

But then why would he be using the kids as lab rats. Well when creating or uncovering it, Mr. Peterson didn’t know how to fully control it since it got out of control and infects the whole timeline. Through out HN he is trying to gain control of it by understanding all of the details of time, but it keeps getting worse and to the point where he is in this big desire for more and more control over everything that goes wrong in his plan. So he keeps resetting. So through out even a ton of the HN story, it is Mr. Peterson experimenting with different events to the story to better understand how time works so he can manipulate it and gain control. But cause of this, the events keep getting worse with everything coming after him all at once. Bad luck catching up to him through out the story. The cult, the rescue squad, investigators, the police, town and cities. And he loses his family & people who used to be close to him later on. But out of fear he resets the loop. But through out HN, events happen as characters get smarter and start understanding what’s going on, and the loop slowly starts to break, and the timeline gets fixed. An influencer behind this as an example, is Norman Darby. He knows what’s going to happen later on. He knows that Mr. Peterson is going to kidnap Nicky. He knows Aaron would be freed from the basement. He recruited others on the mission such as Rita by informing her what’s going to happen, which is why she has her bunker because she knows something bad is going to happen in the future. And maybe even Jay Roth too (Nicky’s dad), as pointed out in star play theory document he never tries to hard to stop Nicky from going to Peterson house. And maybe even Miguel (Enzo & Maritza’s dad) know a bit too because Jay is friends with him and they’ve known each other for a while, and Miguel is also a detective and he know’s stuff about Mr. Peterson too, even the whole thing that happened between his kid’s and Mr. Peterson in Aaron trilogy.

I also believe that MITH & Missing Journalist (who could be the same person but we don’t know yet) since missing journalist was an investigator, MITH is almost like a private investigator and is implied to be a previous journalist.

[dusty trench]

And we know that they know stuff about what’s go in g on in Raven Brooks and with Peterson so it would make sense for Norman to recruite them, or maybe recruited Norman since we know Missing Journalist used to be friends with Otto, and finding out later he is a cultus and became an investigator and recruited other’s to help out with his investigation, mainly ones who experienced between the cult. Or the both found out the same stuff and came together later on by finding each other or sum. Even people like Ms. Tillman most likely know’s some stuff since a secret camera was spotted in the her old house/shop watching her, maybe the cult. Also can tie into why the store prank with Nicky & Aaron played out how it did. Because the time loop’s are being broken by pushing the events forward so Mr. Peterson doesn’t prevent them from happening, and these events have to happen until it gets to a point where the loop breaks and the timeline is fixed. Tweaking stuff so the events do the story can unfold, tweaking the tech so characters are influenced by fear and trauma, even guilt and pain. The loops reminding characters back to events where fear and trauma took place. Which can explain why the loop and time manipulation is represented mostly in moments that impact characters and the story. Because those events have to happen, characters need to be impacted, later on they get over their fears and trauma, guilt and pain. No longer leaving characters minds stuck in constant bad memories of the past. Getting stronger than the loop itself. And the timeline in raven brooks gets restored. Character’s losing track of time shows the loop taking impact, that’s why on the story we dive deep into characters minds portraying different things in different stories. But were the stories together to restore time.

Also adding on this could be what MITH’s deal is and it can bring and idea into the story of MITH trying to locate MAYAK, or like the power core of it so he can understand th tech. Also can be how he gets into the bigger picture with Norman and Missing Journalist (if he isn’t the Missing Journalist). If he is Missing Journalist he could still be hired into finding the power source of Mayak which would make sense considering Missing Journalist knows stuff about raven brooks, the cult, and Peterson so the would hire someone who they know has inside knowledge of Raven Brooks.

This replies of that

But back to the island. Why I think Mr. Peterson is on the island is because well, the books hint at that as I mentioned before with his book having a picture of the island, a famed inventor being on the island surviving. And even Aaron draws it and Mr. Peterson looks confused and almost curious, like how does Aaron know about the island. Also another thing. Why was he there?

[dusty trench]

Ideas that could’ve been flying a commercial airliner for an amusement park. Maybe he was flying a commercial airliner, but he was locating a place for him to experiment with the loop. And he caused it to crash, which can explain his survival. He didn’t this so him being on that island wouldn’t be suspicious. But why do I think he was experimenting. That’s because in HE on his board where he traps kids in timeloop, and even stuff of ravens and storms, there is thing in the middle that’s like a warping portal, and everything around it is like going in that, including the loop. Even in the cutscene, Mr. Peterson’s watching the kids and grins after Mayak lighting electric energy form all around them and it builds up intensely. And if you look at the electric pole towers building up this energy, it’s the same electric tower poles from sandbox mode with the same color and the same antenna as that. Btw those Mayak energy poles strike lighting and laser beam at you in sandbox and destroy your vehicles, and when you go near them wind starts building ups and spins around super facts lie a tornado and everything is also super foggy when in the vicinity, which can show the weather connection.

Many of the messages form discussions above tie into this very well and reading them is necessary imo.

[dusty trench]

Also the tally marks Mr. Peterson has everywhere can be marks of how long loops have happened, and can even show that the first campaign has been in a time loop. Which maybe seem obvious but wait for what I’m about to get into. There’s drawing’s in game showing what seem to be a warping portal of sorts, and even in the cutscene I brought up the kids disappear and lights start to flicker around them. Mr. Peterson is experimenting with teleportation tech which we see is connected to Mayak. And why the kids are transported and afterwards the park becomes empty in that area. And why right after it shows the kids looking shocked about where they are like Enzo up close is looking around like confused and surprised about where exactly they are, and also if you look at the shot right before it shows Mr. Peterson, look at where the kids are standing and where the car is positioned. And then look at the lost shot of the cutscene where they are in sandbox. They are in the exact same positions but they are looking around frozen in shock about where they are or how they got there. Even AS in the background of some shots which is a distorted memory by fear in Trinities Perspective and also the loop, and in the back of some shots where it shows the inventors club room in the school one of the prints is the teleporting device from Secret Neighbor. And even the fact of SN showing inside the kids mindset’s and stuff amalgamated in one shows more of what the teleporting device represents. The Mayak warping technology that can transport you to different places, which is wha Mr. Peterson was experimenting with in the previous acts before sandbox. This can even show more proof of the over all time period in SN a bit or part of it, since it’s really spread out through out multiple time periods. Maybe SN plays out like different sections and events in the game the place in different time periods, but overall it’s in one time period within the timeline, kind of like S&R or HN1 Act 2.

Maybe they will make an updated version of SN but you can still play the old version that takes place in that Tim period, but the new one takes place in the future, which that would be super cool I want that to happen. TINIYBUILD, TAKE MY IDEAS PLEASE 🙏.

Anyways

Back to lore

Where do I think the kids got teleported too

The island

[dusty trench]

Why I believe this is because if you look at the sandbox map, it’s shaped perfectly like an island. The layout of the mountains, an everything is more like an island than the previous acts, which is more like a park than sandbox. This shows that Mr. Peterson was probably making teleportation experiments at the island as well. And pranks experimenting if he can loop a specific area and not the whole world or sum, and he achieved that at the island first and did it to raven brooks after. Because he wanted to make sure on an area hard to get too first before doing it in town. This also shows that the first loop was on the island. And the first teleportation stuff too probably. Since he got the recourses from Mayak, and took it with him to the island. And started the experiments there first. He moved out after taking resources and material from Mayak as he got older after Franklins death. He gets money from the amusement parks and is able to fly commercial airliners. His goal is to try and find a location for him to experiment with the tech to make sure nothing gets out of hand and he doesn’t get caught. He placed a bunch of Mayak tech stuff in different places around the island, and starts experimenting with time and teleportation to try and connect to Mayak so he can go from the island to back on land. But maybe he accidentally causes a timeloop on the island he gets stuck in. And while in the loop, Mr. Peterson learns more on how to contain and control a loop, and even reset it himself. Later on other people step in to try and make sure he doesn’t get control. Because the more he acts out of fear resetting the loop, the timeline won’t continue. And Mr. Peterson is stopping the events from happen in because he is trying to go back to the past and fix everything, but it just keeps making things worse. To the point where Mr. Peterson is getting more worried about control later down the line. And later leading his path to destruction.

And giving hints for more darker evil side of Mr. Peterson that is blood lusted (GN2 finale).

And in HE he is trying to get contact back to that island through the Mayak energy since Mayak stuff is on the island and is seeing if the original place this tech was held can make a signal connection all the way to the island to power that stuff back on, or maybe it’s been on but that doesn’t seem realistic. Also he is seeing if he can transport others, but he test it on the people he is actually trying to trap so he doesn’t accidentally trap himself.

And I believe him starting his experiments on the island takes place before Bosco Bay. As it wouldn’t fit later on in the timeline since Aaron & Mya are born and while he wasn’t with his kids much, he was still designing theme parks. And which him flying with a commercial airliner means the park is likely finished since Mr. Peterson would be working on a park so he wouldn’t be flying an advertisement himself, it would maybe be someone else who is saying park under construction or coming soon which is possible, isn’t likely & Mr. Peterson flying it most likely means he is promoting it coming soon since it’s finished, or that it’s open. Imo the flyer saying coming soon makes more sense because Peterson would probably be at the park himself which he would probably usually is at his own park a lot when they are open as we see in GN1 a bit. And it would give him time to experiment depending on how long the coming soon is, because soon can be a while. Also him experimenting and testing some stuff before getting into the time and teleporting business before makes sense too.

But, why are there theme park stuff at the island?

We know that the teleporting etch can transport objects as it transports the car too, along with the kids. Also another thing is that the kids used the car piece of the rocket that fell off after Mr. Peterson is defeated in sandbox before getting transported and it’s still there. And we know the tech Mr. Peterson uses in HE is Mayak powered and that can attract Mayak energy. And the kids and car were close to the power lines on the electric pole towers powered by Mayak energy. And the other kids were touching the metal car that has Mr. Peterson tech parts, except Enzo who is holding a camera. But I believe that if something has Mayak energy attach ed to it then it gets teleported, or if it’s close enough for an object to attract to it. Which Enzo was carrying a camera, and we know Mayak energy is connected to the magnetic field’s and mogent stuff as it’s been manipulated before with tat tech, which also influences the Ravens path way patterns which can explain the raven and weather storm drawings connected to Mr. Peterson’s investigation drawings on his boards and hideouts. But if you look at the shot afterwards nothing else got teleported, not even the van which is in sandbox. I think it depends on how big and or how much of those tower poles there are around an area and the vicinity of the place it’s in. And that Mayak energy has to be around since the poles attract to that to it can teleport since it’s a signal to somewhere else. And it attracts metal objects around it as well so it can teleport stuff, and Enzo is holding a camera and is super close to the car which has Peterson parts of Mayak tech to it make’s sense on how he got teleported, and the other kids touching the metal car too which is connected to the Mayak energy, which explains how those got teleported. But why is there all of the amusement park stuff in the sandbox? I believe it’s metaphorical and connected to the kids mindsets as to why all that stuff is in the sandbox map.

Mb I’m editing a message to expand upon it but wassup

I think it looks cool.

Reminds me of some newgrounds stuff

[marsh swan]

Im sorry im gonna go i love you

[dusty trench]

Okay bye

Anyways back to editing

[dusty trench]

I believe it can kind of show more objects can be attracted but not really. In this case I belief it’s is representing the kids adventure of escaping the loop, like how they tried to escape the park. And it’s a representation of there mindsets portraying the island as painful as the amusement park. Because the time loops take the kids back to there traumatic moments and experiences. There fear, trauma, guilt, pain, suffering, all bring them back to moments where those feelings took place. The time loop messing with their mind because they are stuck in the past, losing track of time. Even when they push to the next event in the timeline, they still hold that trauma. Still the feeling in their head that they are stuck in the past plays over and over again. So the kids imagine the land as the amusement park. A place that brought pain, suffering, fear, even regret, and a traumatic experience to many people. Not just the GAAP, but his other parks too. They imagine it as GAAP because that’s the park that was in there town that brought all that darkness to them. But they try to lighten up and face there problems. Be a little more positive. Which is represented in this game many ways, even imagination as a metaphor. They uncover the technology on how to push forward the next event in the timeline and break the loop, and escape the island. Which the building case shows that they have Ben tinkering with stuff and using technology and scraps from the work against the Mr. Peterson. And the Mayak energy against him by learning how to teleport back and push forward the next event in the timeline. And slowly get to freedom, instead of an illusion of freedom. That symbol of the kids tinkering and exploring all around the island shows the kids desire to freedom, which is part HN’s identity in many ways not just story, but even development. This shows that messing around with stuff to try and fix something so desperately, and creating a fake reality for yourself,

will only make things worse in the end. Ruining others lives in the process, making you want control over anything, creating that greed for yourself. But the when it all comes back t you, then you can go down a path of destruction. Showing more of a desperate nature of trying to erase everything. Everything that you caused, or you were apart of. That trauma will always come back to you in the end, making luck worse for yourself. So you choose what you want to do with freedom. Because the clock is ticking.

[toxic mist]

holy yappatron

[near cosmos]

Let him cook, everyone loves this guy

[toxic mist]

major yap session

[wanton roost]

who cares its worth everyone's time lol

[ripe berry]

besides the books say the plane crash was in the 70s so yeah

[dusty trench]

Oh didn’t peep that. Yea the book definitely confirms he was on that island there’s just no way. And the fact that it was going to be his perspective in HE before it changed to inventors club story, it honestly makes sense for them to use the island in lore rn. And if so, I feel like AS will do something really different that’s connected to Trinity (and well the others as well but it’s Trinity’s perspective). Maybe thy do Easter eggs of the island and confirm loop, like maybe a picture of the island which this is adding onto my S3 ideas for how it can work in 5 EP’s. Or maybe somehow we see them on the island but idk. I’m trying to understand a way for it to fit, unless EP’s are longer which could make kind of sense.

[dusty trench]

Also adding onto this, Enzo is the only one who yes he is in shock & confused, the camera emphasizes him and even when it zooms out he is still seen moving around a bit because he puts the camera down. But everyone else is just frozen & shocked and the camera doesn’t show them much. Almost like they reacted to the Mayak energy because they were touching the car which has Peterson’s parts, and we know he was using parts on Mayak tech machine, like the light was connected to that train machine that used Mayak energy (looked almost like the mill from ROTM which was suprising) forming that lightning energy that was building up, Raven’s flying everywhere. And the spider boss in that Mayak area with all of the Mayak electricity being present, and ravens flying outside in that boss too can imply. Even the intro cutscene while showing Trinity up close first Enzo then takes center. And even Mr. Peterson’s board has a ? On a person which is interesting as well a that’s the main thing maybe messages I forwarded above mention. The game emphasizes him more than the others, like Enzo is the first to put his hand in intro, Enzo gives other characters hope of building the car by when he sees the park lights turn on he point’s to go there. Him being the one shown to hold the blueprint, and even him being shown in the middle of the group or center in intro. When everyone else is giving up Ivan is rushing to find stuff, Trinity reading news paper, Maritza playing with ping pong board, Enzo is the one to step in and give hope for the group. Him always being the one taking the pictures and setting the camera up, we see more of his character in this game than the others, I feel like that’s important. Could maybe explain a bigger role for Enzo, like he isn’t too effected by the Mayak energy since he ways touching the car.

[neat phoenix]

If Hello Neighbor Lore was a school subject, you and MikeHuff24 would have only A's

[inland folio]

i wouldnt even have an F

i would have like a

-H

[neat phoenix]

I would have -M

[glacial whale]

I’m brick number 28 on the left side there

[cursive kraken]

I think neighbor planned become player in act 3 apartment because this has animation

[languid breach]

i dont see much people talking about the fact that the guest gave aaron the key to free nicky in hn1 (shown in search and rescue)

[marsh idol]

teachers dont get graded on their own lessons

[dusty trench]

Ay, you’re really good at explaining HN lore yourself too.

[marsh idol]

yea still picking up on a cohesive understanding since the lore is all over the place with its canon not being as clear as it should be

[dusty trench]

Yea understandable. I even have a hard time sometimes and it takes me a while to make theories a lot. So I will sometimes look into other discussions or start my own here in the server, or add onto peoples thoughts.

@languid breach

Read these.

[ripe berry]

and this could further explain (outside of him signing in someone into Raven Brooks) why the Guest specifically kidnapped him

[dusty trench]

Yes. Also if it was Guest. Now maybe it was him, but I think in reset day the cult is doing stuff behind the scenes, and I think they took control of the loop at this time, and maybe they are trying to erase all evidence of Raven Brooks past so they can continue work. By killing people of the past who know info about Raven brooks, or forcing them to work for them or try to get info out of them. And I’m not talking cultist from HN2 or the past, like cultist that came later on who are younger and can live modern times. We don’t know what happens to Mayor, Gerda, Leslie, Dale etc. Otto probably dead and if not probably moved out of raven brooks and left all of the stolen good’s from cut business to family outside of raven brooks, unless Peterson killed him or Guest lol. Also idk if it would fit Guest to use cell phones to track down people. I mean it’s possible, but I feel like cult is trying to pose as The Guest. I feel like it fits them more to do that. And they obviously would know Guest is roaming around so they are trying to make it seem like it’s Guest trying to get them, to make them more scared. Also the fact that they dress like him and well, copy him it makes sense. They try to make it seem like they are some supernatural creatures but they use dangerous technology as their benefit. And if Guest did take Enzo, it would probably be him convincing Enzo to a deal. So maybe it was Guest who took Enzo maybe, but cult is trying to get to Piper & Delia. Why then is because they are related to Ms. Tillman who knows info on raven brooks past. And they want to get rid of anyone who is related or associated with people from the past, and they pose as The Guest to make themselves more intimidating. Mr. Peterson being on a path of destruction instead of trying to fix past would mean he isn’t on about time loops anymore and maybe cult from Peterson’s book maybe learned about how time & stuff work and later on they got control after Mr. Peterson got drove to rage.

If Guest did take Enzo, what would the goal be. I feel like it was cult but not sure, Guest seem’s to be in Reset Day to not be like how the messages portray him. He seems a little different, as we know Guest isn’t part of cult but cult still follows him. And maybe that ca explain later on why in HN3 park is back, festival returns. And maybe the cult isn’t there anymore and it’s just there legacy that lives on in town with the rest of the townsfolk’s finding info of the past, but they don’t know other info because the cult erased it.

But idk if Enzo & Maritza and any others are dead but maybe, I’m just not sure.

I have a fan pitch above in this page for an HN movie trilogy which Alex mentioned they have a good idea for and how it will work, so I tied it so it can lead into Reset Day and I made fan pitches for what a finished Piper trilogy would be in movie form.

[marsh idol]

totally understandable

[dusty trench]

I understand this. Even Alex confirmed that there are missing scenes in stuff in AS even all the way back in S1 EP1. I guess they had to portion stuff down because of inside development reasons. Because the show is really Indie and I’m pretty sure it’s even connected to why S3 hasn’t release yet. They are planning a kickstarter. One of the big points of this is because Tinybuild went bankrupt but Atari stepped in later.

[ripe berry]

na I'd maybe gets a B at best

despite having seen and read Stage Play Theory on day 1 when it dropped I forgot it even existed until someone else brought it up

[dusty trench]

Yea I’m not really sure what grade I would give myself.

[dusty trench]

Maybe a B or B+ for me too since I feel like I can explain stuff better. Or make things more clear.

[zealous falcon]

Is Nicky's diaries canon?

[wanton roost]

Ye

[limber ridge]

How many seasons was Nicky's diaries supposed to have? I think like 3 right? For each of the books in Nicky's trilogy.

[zealous falcon]

Ohhh

[dusty trench]

Bruv 💀

[untold vessel]

i need the entirety of hn lore right now i havent played since i was 11 T-T

[inland folio]

so uh

nicky was moving to raven broks

theres neighbor he has 2 kids aaron mya

neighbor lose wife

[untold vessel]

neighbor sad

[inland folio]

aaron accidentally push mya off roof

guest cult stuff

[outer jay]

This is it in a nutshell
Man’s wife dies Kids get mad at eachother
One kills the other Man goes mad Kid who kills other kid get locks in the basement Kid from other street investigate Gets kidnapped
Escapes Comes back after years Has a nightmare Act 3 happens Then he fights off his trauma and the beat out gets stuck

[inland folio]

nicky get basement

[outer jay]

That’s what I learnt anyway

[untold vessel]

thankings

[inland folio]

thats not all

[untold vessel]

thankings

[inland folio]

thats just the hn1 things

[untold vessel]

yeah i know

[inland folio]

hn2 there is more complications

[outer jay]

That’s all off it

Yeah ig

I jst put kid gets kidnapped in basement and escapes tbf

[untold vessel]

my only question is WHY DOES THE HOUSE KEEP GETTING MORE AND MORE INSANE

[outer jay]

The man Peter gets more mad

Also act 3 is a nightmare

[untold vessel]

ohhh yeah that makes sence

[outer jay]

That’s a interpretation on what Nicky thought would be their

Yes yes

[untold vessel]

ah okieeeee

[outer jay]

I jst wonder

[untold vessel]

wait i forgor is hn1 free on steam

[outer jay]

What Hn3 lore will be

[outer jay]

The alphas are free

The game no I don’t think

[untold vessel]

ah okie thank

[outer jay]

Np

[inland folio]

alphas and prototypes are free

full games arent

well uh lets not talk about hn2

[outer jay]

What do yall think hn3 lore will be

[untold vessel]

ok imma play now ehehehe (the first alpha)

of hn1

[outer jay]

Bye bye

[dusty trench]

@inland folio part 1

[dusty trench]

@inland folio part 2

[dusty trench]

@inland folio part 3

[dusty trench]

@inland folio part 4

[dusty trench]

@inland folio extra detail

@inland folio that’s a basic beginning of the story to get started and I feel like it’s a good introduction

[dusty trench]

4 chapters

[ripe berry]

1: Missing Pieces
2: Waking Nightmare
3: Buried Secrets
4: Act 2 to present...?

[dusty trench]

Probably. His time in the basement and what he learned about what happened at Mayak, cult, Aaron, etc. Act 2 but more accurate to what actually happened in his perspective. AS S2 events, him getting sent to mental facility. His time when leaving facility, and growing into an adult and moving to raven brooks. Act 3-finale but like what actually happened outside of the that version of the metaphorical portrayal in HN1. And Nicky explains he moved back inside leading to HND. Maybe we get some scenes of Nicky adult I town maybe exploring around, and maybe a cameo of Enzo and Maritza as adults. Also we know that HND was supposed to be a remake of the original Nicky’s Diaries limited HN1 mobile campaign. And that campaign had some interesting stuff that can even tie to other games. Maybe can be used as an idea for HND. Likes rough outline. Like Nicky in that campaign pieces together a drawing of The Guest which can tie more details into why there is drawing of Guest in his room in S&R, and Sam with the reset day Guest picture in S&R.

https://youtu.be/g7-sMVoCje0?si=sPw9aMYjtbXKD2eK

https://youtu.be/DLD6ukwj5m8?si=4HJqf_iztdDrl5Bd

https://youtu.be/BYuol2nVsSI?si=tOlN8oDr_6qYlQWl

https://youtu.be/23hKsUQjvLk?si=r5LXR1g2kp2qmdXk

https://youtu.be/UpLqCHfmtoM?si=OqfSrXLf6M9FWK-U

https://youtu.be/kiuWwq1kgxk?si=DhuvCsUbIEvkf5y-

https://youtu.be/vdqWZ8Y7r0w?si=qiFuf8BhlId4xMiR

https://youtu.be/otUpXboZg8Y?si=0po_Nwj-sVmopjNy

https://youtu.be/GYlPUgG139A?si=LB8299r8TdRsC_Gd

[untold vessel]

yay lore

[dusty trench]

And weeks makes sense since all acts have 4 section’s with 5 maps (levels which also have extra content and different things you can do for extra lore, Easter eggs, or random stuff.

[dusty trench]

But it seems the week 4 of act 1 was going have this cutscene.

https://youtu.be/yuXNJ6J6Ang?si=cpZu9jKdsNC-TjTG also this as a bonus

https://youtu.be/W788YR9bCYw?si=xBB7PAYprn-yE0Tx also here is a weak 1 day 6, maybe simpler down in HND. Like to be week 2 day 1. Or maybe in HND there is saturday’s and sunday’s we play in.

Really it was a test for HND and a teaser that was limited time in HN1. I feel like they should’ve had the plan at first already to just make it an HN1 update on all platforms but oh well, game already exist. Atleast update HND since that’s supposed to update too. And put it on all platforms to put that lore out there more.

But it gave us lore glimpses as was said back then it’s important for lore. Like to hint at HND tho. But idk if they will even update HND to put that stuff in which is sad. Atp if they don’t update it is shouldn’t be a game because this isn’t an HN2 situation. Like the fact that it isn’t branded as HN2, so honestly delete it. Like I know it’s cause of budget and the bankrupt but like it ain’t HN2, but still important for lore that’s put in a game view. And maybe if the just give everyone’s money back and delete it, they can just put it in HN1 and bring this back. I would recommend just putting all of the entire HND in HN1, and it can be paid access which would make sense because of what HND provides. And if they do delete HND off the stores and put it all in HN1 in all platforms, they can give players the Nickies Diaires expansion who had bought HND the app for free in HN1 if they sauce HN1 or when they get it later on. Like a button in the main game menu that’s Nicky’s Diaries like the content expansion, when clicking it and entering it loads the HND loading screen an even the main menu of HND but within the regular Hello Neighbor app. But I know if they do that, it would probably be super long time. Unless budget like that kickstarter they plan saves them and they can do it quicker, or just update HND put it on all platforms. Having it mobile exclusive is just weird, and honestly not good business, since I know Alex and Tinybuild care about the business a ton and how they market stuff. Not saying they don’t care about the fans became they have listened to a ton of stuff and tried stuff too. Just do sum that makes sense and not so money hungry. Not saying money isn’t important it like y’all don’t gotta be greedy come on.

[dusty trench]

Also interestingly this video shows Guest costume kid clothing in there. The gloves, sweater, the pants, beak.

[dusty trench]

And this cutscene with MITH’s hat being almost a replica of that scene. And I believe there was things in game where you get to do different things and go to different routes. Like Nicky’s trauma comes back to him for a bit but he gets over it. Because I remember there being a ton of stuff that you ca find and you would get different outcomes, even bonus content within game. Also I have a theory for what could’ve been the plan or what they tried to go for with HND.

Like maybe certain outcomes and choices you made led to fear capturing you. And others is not getting caught by your fears. Because I remember this game is supposed to be the intimate HN game and is heavily around HN1 & Nicky. I believe that this game was supposed to put in a ton of the bigger more open sandbox elements with multiple choices to make and bonus stuff and easter eggs. And we se emote of those free roam and going for bonus content stuff in HND rn. So maybe.

Also the fact that it tells the books story which was meant to be represented more in games, like more clear and open but without all of the extra stuff hinting at HN2 ya know.

[wind wagon]

I was watching season 1 of the show again, and I noticed throughout, Ivan acts strange, for example, in episode 1, when enzo ask Ivan what he thinks about theo, he says I don't wanna talk about it. And he seems to be the most afraid of the neighbor in the show, so what happened to Ivan?

[dusty trench]

Even with Delroy inside the tunnels under the school for some reason. And Finch out walking late at night when squad were tackling to Nicky, what’s her deal. It clearly hints at what ever they are going through in AS, maybe other media can give hints too. I’ve me roomed Ivan Delroy and Finch many times when discussing lore. We just need more info.

[ripe berry]

Remembered some old posts someone made so
what do you think of them?
#lore-discussion message
#lore-discussion message
#lore-discussion message

these 3 lore discussion links lead to them

not sure how much is schizo and how much is valid theorizing but you can possibly glean some things from this

[glacial whale]

I just looked at the second one and it just kept going down and I’ll be honest the red plus green equals yellow part with the crow is giving my brain a stroke. Maybe I’m just not capable of understanding HN lore

Is it even worth knowing about the books lore at this rate?

[dusty trench]

What I think, is this is kind of my mindset sometimes on HN. And I’ve seen the videos on this channel before, and I 100% agree. And I feel like this is super duper and I mean, SUPER DEEP analyses on the HN lore. Deciphering patterns in colors, codes, the MITH one being an example. I always thought that house in HN1 was MITH. Even a long time ago I thought that house had relevance because of the design. I’ve seen Nikita’s streams and pay attention to what he says and why he does in games. And I always thought the coloring of purple and green was important. I’m actually really happy I read this. Even some stuff I haven’t even realized fully. Like each HN game feels like each other an has similarities. Even in environment, although each game being drastically different, it ca show some environmental stuff can go into others perspective. And I love how they while not using alphas as if they are canon, used ideas like me to see similarities between them so we can get an idea of the picture the story is going for. And I just love the deep analyses. Now while you don’t need all of this deep analyses for lore, I feel like it is really good. While some stuff like th MITH discussion, the rocket ship moon stuff, error world, color patterns, really important if you are really deep deep analyzing. To se rid a game took ideas and aspects from an older build or even a previous game, or if they hinted at this stuff. Even you can notice stuff and hints to the story without th really deep and lil super MEGA DEEP analyses, but I still love this. Te similarities, ideas, and theory crafting is amazing for this. This is super unique and idk, might be the most deep analyses I’ve seen. I see why people say schizo but honestly, I recommend give it a read, a watch the vids.

[ripe berry]

that's not related to the books at all btw

[dusty trench]

You don’t really need the MEGA ULtRA DEeP analyses for lore. Bit I do like how he used similarities between different games and media for the lore, even seeing if ideas presented in older builds are similar to stuff in the actual games and finished product to get an idea on what the story ideas they are going for to see if it ca be elements in a way that is actually story relevant. But I can see how many people would get super confused or just stop reading, or even call it schizo. But for people who want super MEGa deep analyses like this, I recommend read it.

[ripe berry]

yeah
and hey, always good to take a look at other people's perspectives even if they seem a bit out there at times

[dusty trench]

Completely agree

[ripe berry]

even if it doesn't change your mind
it can help you make connections you would've never noticed otherwise

like Nikita indicating that hats might intentionally have some level of importance (even since the Pre-Alpha days) is something worth looking into

[dusty trench]

Yea. And you mentioning that already shows a bigger picture being presented in HN, which we knew because of the golden apples, crows & ravens, bad luck symbolism and metaphors, amusement park circus like imagery. Also don’t know if you remember but, I talked about HN1 & H&S telling more than just the basic Peterson story everyone knows. That it was already hinting and trying to tell a bigger picture, even the amusement parks, cult like stuff happening and many more.

[ripe berry]

not to mention there's a background house that could belong to MitH

[dusty trench]

Yea mentioned that too. I always had a feeling it was important. Then MITH came and I just looked more when playing HN1 and was like, it’s a MITH hideout. It has to be.

[ripe berry]

and ain't there a group of 4 cages on a part of the Blood Waits Nightmare Sequence exterior
and iirc in the original Nicky Trilogy version of the event 4 people died at the Ferneh Welt?

[dusty trench]

Yea

Ooooh wait

[ripe berry]

even if not everything was thought out
bits and pieces are there all the way back in HN1

[ripe berry]

or no wait
lemme double check
it was 4 people grouped together but there were also 2 caged people separate from that I think

[dusty trench]

Yea, and that’s what people have to pay mind to as well. That they aren’t just adding stupid lore to milk everything out, but they added onto stuff present before later on and even characters in different media and views that can tie to the story and the characters role and there personality.

[dusty trench]

Hold on

[ripe berry]

the Mya Cutout was also visible separately on there

[ripe berry]

yep
right above the entrance four people (or uh... stick figures) grouped together (then again on second thought this could just be representative of the Petersons as 2 of the stick figures have dresses)
also 2 visible caged people
2 butterflies caged
1 crow(?) caged
7 eye symbols
2 spider webs
4 windows
some visible (green...? the lighting's weird but it's same as the color around the eye symbols which I assume to be Green due to the painting) chains seemingly linked to the cages
and the Aaron and Mya cutout doodles (but upside down)

[dusty trench]

Yea. I was checking that but it took wayyyyy too long donut gave up and searched for a vid but they never look.

[dusty trench]

Also a cage behind the gate on left side

[ripe berry]

that's why I said 2 caged people instead of 1

[dusty trench]

Yup

[ripe berry]

the cages also have an explosion of green(?) and also with the ones with people some red

and there's also an eye above the "Waits" part (or uh.. Yaits due to being in Wayron Croobian)

[dusty trench]

@ripe berry

[dusty trench]

Yea the eyes always caught my attention, and the cages.

The 4 people I knew were Peterson family, but the other stuff can show the park tragedies

Including the nightmare theme as a whole

Being an amusement park. A roller coaster specifically you ride. Going through a tragic story.

[ripe berry]

yeah
still wonder what exactly is up with the eye symbolism

[dusty trench]

Mayak is the main thing I believe

[ripe berry]

it seems to be tied both to the Mayak and the Forest Protectors

[dusty trench]

Yea. Even with Mayak in the MiTH event when you hit all of the eye painting, all of the power and electricity turn off which can represent the electricity power of Mayak.

[ripe berry]

in HN2A1.5 the map is eye shaped

the Guest has that eye medallion on it's Forest Protector costume

[dusty trench]

And the middle of HN2 map the fountain lobby area on front of Mayors house

[ripe berry]

this Librarian in the Late Fees DLC

and HN3 seems to be doing something with it too

[glacial whale]

No I just meant in general for lore discussion

[dusty trench]

And as we talked about a long time ago, she is a cultist

[dusty trench]

Well @glacial whale

[glacial whale]

Sorry for late reply

[ripe berry]

Signed originally had the Eye Symbol
Coned has the Eye Symbol
and the Guest Festival statue has the Eye Symbol as one of the 2 symbols it holds up

[dusty trench]

It’s good

[dusty trench]

Yea I remember eye signed art

Never realized it tho

Also the fact that they are “sacrificing Isaac” and the paper has an eye symbol.

[ripe berry]

(since I don't have an in-game image of the statue I'm still gonna use this edit)

[dusty trench]

Could tie into whaat Mayak was based around. And I’ve even seen people reference the Illuminati eye as an idea.

[ripe berry]

and the runes on his shirt talk about death and transformation (which btw at least with the historian were confirmed to have meaning)

[dusty trench]

Also can be related to what the cult is formed around. A twisted version of symbols that were once positive in raven brooks culture, but twisted later on by greed.

[ripe berry]

if you wanna research these symbols for yourself the runes are elder futhark

[dusty trench]

I read you and @eager island discussion on these symbols a while ago

[ripe berry]

and the only one to know what the symbols originally were is the Historian, one of the only ones old enough to have been around when the festival was still active

[dusty trench]

Never realized what they were based on till y’all mentioned them. I had a feeling they meant something tho.

[dusty trench]

Oh wait is that her

Looks like historian but younger

One holding up the peak

Also I wonder the face of the statue too. Can represent when it was happy, but that full raven design of Guest is shown of the turned twisted nature of everything.

Maybe Mayak design was based on that. Also it’s strange since Franklin and Theodore Peterson’s eyes are green.

Maybe the green came from the eyes of Franklin and Theo. Based it on them. Like the color.

[ripe berry]

also historian's cloak in this image has the same symbols as the Festival Statue

[dusty trench]

Yea noticed that too. Strange how she has been around for so long but, never showed up. Maybe she knows about the cult and just wants to live the fullest, not get into trouble or caught on by cult. Maybe she his in the background of the incidents happening in town for years.

[ripe berry]

and even the Historian reinterprets the symbols with time
you can see she stitched in a way to change it from being the same as the Mural to a separate symbol

[dusty trench]

Which can parallel the game. And even maybe the loops. Which is interesting to me. Maybe time has multiple meanings.

Because the town isn’t in a loop in HN3

[ripe berry]

specifically changing the end bit from the symbol linked to concept of "Potential/Energy/Desire" to the symbol linked to "New Beginnings/Rebirth/Renewal"

[dusty trench]

It’s that rebirth thing. Even the HN3 logo represents of time transformation, and rebirth stuff. Even the old HN3 logo was shaped like a glock.

*clock

I’m keeping that 💀

What if Mr. Peterson found out his parent’s were trying to investigate time.

And that’s what drove him to fix the past too. And almost like completing his parents investigations and experiments.

By seeing if he can fix an event of the past. That affected his character.

[ripe berry]

Peterson's Journal DOES have an hourglass in it

[dusty trench]

@ripe berry which can tie to this

Maybe the cult found out Peterson experiments because they know he was trying to finish his parents work and fix the past. Also stop them, so they found out how to manipulate time and loops with his book. Which maybe Reset Day they are controlling the loop.

[ripe berry]

Not to mention he possibly witnessed something to do with the experiments first-hand due to Franklin's end.

[ripe berry]

Remember
Alex called that scene the most important scene of Season 2

#hello-neighbor message

I'd say maybe the stuff with Franklin is meant to be what sets the experiments Theodore performs into motion

[dusty trench]

And also, his parents could’ve been interested in time because of the ravens society. Because what if they were interested in ravens, and other imagery and believed that stuff because of the area already having weather stuff happening, and the ravens everywhere (hence the name). They know the metaphorical symbols behind ravens and storms, they used that in the festival. Even at the time it was more common for people to believe in that stuff I talked a bit about that w while ago. They started looking into other symbolic stuff to see if it connects to their here investigation. Roger & Adele at town now and they are collaborating. They use Roger & Adele to discover more secrets being raven’s, storms, and even time metaphors to uncover the truth. Bad intentions were hidden behind the scene’s tho. Everything bad happened between the ravens society and Roger & Adele. The experiments slowed down. And they began testing storms. Hence the Halloween storm news paper. And the Franklin incident, and that was Theo’s motive for his experiments.

Why he even thought of time manipulation is because his parents could’ve been investigating it too. His parents investigation gave hope for Theo fixing the past.

[dusty trench]

Yea

Me too

[dusty trench]

@ripe berry 👆

Offline for a bit but I’ll be back

[ripe berry]

who would've thought there's so much to still learn about the lore even when everything was thought to have been found

[dusty trench]

Yea. Thats what I love about HN. Fun details and lore Easter eggs that can be found out after a while. Things from other media adding more a little detail to another perspective. Even when playing HN, everyone has a different experience. Similar to how every character perceives things different in their mindset and perspective.

[ripe berry]

like, trivia:
the round clocks in each act always rotated to read the same time
Like Act 1's clocks are 3:30
the only clock in Act 2 is 9:00
Act 3's clocks are 6:15

[dusty trench]

Yea

What if that’a lore relevant aswell

[ripe berry]

goes to show the level of detail they put into the game

[dusty trench]

Realizing almost everything in some way’s has all come from HN1 is what people need to realize

[dusty trench]

Yes. Even the clock puzzles in HN2 I feel are lore relevant.

Hold offline for a bit but imma come with some theory crafting.

[ripe berry]

not to mention HNHS has the clock as a key symbol for the game, with it tracking your progress

[ripe berry]

and of course the symbolism in HNVR

[dusty trench]

@ripe berry

[dusty trench]

@ripe berry

[dusty trench]

@ripe berry

[dusty trench]

@ripe berry

[ripe berry]

which is especially impressive for having been done in a couple of months iirc

[dusty trench]

The full game specifically, yea

They already had plans for the alpha 2 house being like a tutorial introduction to the game so we got many ideas

[dusty trench]

I’m trying to find something else relating to my theory, which is why I replied to those messages for you to read. Also click the messages I sent you that I replied to as well.

Tryna find a discussion

@ripe berry

@ripe berry

@ripe berry Why I put out those messages and how they tie in is because what if the time puzzle’s like restoring the clock represent’s Norman, Missing Journalist, MITH like that crew trying to get Quentin to help them restore time, like he restored some of the timeline (also btw MITH and Missing Journalist could be the same I’m not saying there dif).

[ripe berry]

wait
didn't Ms. Tillman say something about fixing the clock?

in Reset Day

[dusty trench]

I think so

[ripe berry]

or something along those lines about restoring the clock

[dusty trench]

Yea. Also (iirc) about her having a secret office and something protecting her from loops.

[ripe berry]

one of the rings like what Maritza has I think

[dusty trench]

Which can tie into how MITH, Missing Journalist, and Norman know about stuff and don’t completely forget after a loop.

Why they are in the background.

Maybe, Beatrix is involved too. Since she is hidden a lot in HN2 and it’s implied Quentin an Beatriz know each other even during game.

[dusty trench]

Wait, I forgot about that completely

Rings

Protecting from loops.

Or at least having them remember stuff and still understand the loops. So that they can understand there function and fix the timeline. Because Norman and Missing Journalist caused the events of the timeline to unfold, that other characters like Maritza and Enzo get stronger in there mind to understanding the loops. But then Enzo was kidnapped by the cult. Because they used Mr. Peterson’s book to figure out how time works and how to control it. All of this leading Mr. Peterson into a path of destruction.

Maybe Mr. Peterson created the rings so that he doesn’t get too effected by the time loops power. Or became he is or was the controller, he wouldn’t be affected so Norman or Missing Journalist created them.

[dusty trench]

Also this fits so well with Enzo knowing more because he is the detective in SN & S&R magnifying l glass.

[ripe berry]

not to mention Enzo has a Quentin Skin in SN

[dusty trench]

Even in HE most of Enzo being shown and focused on more than anyone else. Him not looking at frozen as others in the act 3 ending cutscene.

[dusty trench]

Oh yea

And Enzo’s dad implied a little to be tied in ways, it can make sense. Maybe he worked with Norman and chose Enzo because of his abilities of investigation and interest in tech stuff and inventing. Also can tie into the older brother responsibility Enzo and protecting his sister. By risking his life for her to make sure she is safe, along with his kids. And Maritza has the info on stuff now that Enzo is missing.

Enzo knew this would happen, because he joined Norman and his crew, because they brought his dad along and his dad left hints for Enzo.

[ripe berry]

(which links Quentin and Enzo more closely then most other characters)

[ripe berry]

Like how Norman sent clues to the Banner meant for Aaron and Mya?

[dusty trench]

And so Enzo can bring his friends into the picture for these events to happen. Which is why he in HE gave his friends hope to go to the park after seeing lights turn on. And even why he is seen trying to help out others in the crew in AS. Even in the books Enzo who is just a kid just wants to help out, but ended up drifting away slowly from Aaron and Nicky out of fear. And this is his redemption as an adult to be a protector.

Even him liking Trinity can tie in because she is trying to be leader of the group, and even in books Trinity gets into the investigation gig with Nicky before anyone else, and Enzo came along mainly because of everyone else joining Nicky including his sister.

I guess he learned the rights and wrongs of being a leader from Trinity in ways, even Nicky too as we see in AS Trinity is scared out of fear and doesn’t really want to investigate in EP2. And Nicky keeps trying to get her along, because they are children and are learning.

They don’t know everything yet and they will make mistakes, and Enzo is described in books as being more mature, that can even tie into later on as well and why he would be was chosen.

[ripe berry]

yea

[dusty trench]

Never give up okay. You can always be the best, I hope you never give up. Keep your weapons attached & on guard ❤️‍🔥.

[limber ridge]

I Heard it was gonna have smth about the guest too.

[limber ridge]

Legendary

[dusty trench]

Maybe when he actually witnesses The Guest. Since we see in S&R drawings of Guest in his room off to the side hidden, almost as if he wasn’t really pay my mind to it. And even in the original campaign for Nicky’s Diaries he pieces together drawings of Guest. And since HND is supposed to be a finished remake of that limited test teaser, an we know HND is Nicky trying to remember the exacts of what happened, it makes sense that he would remember him putting together drawing of Guest and put it in his room. Which we see in S&R.

[dusty trench]

Gotta be inspirational sometimes

[limber ridge]

It sucks so much that everytime some game is supposed to give us something on the guest it is scrapped. Hn2 was supposed to, we all know how that went. Same for diaries. The Piper novels would probably have given us smth too. All discontinued. I mean, for now at least, they could pick up the books again. But season 3 is the one that's supposed to give us a proper identity and motivation and all that stuff. And even that thing is seemingly like delayed or through development problems

[dusty trench]

Yea it sucks. Books could return maybe after movie, AS we gettin info in that view. And the movie would probably give us stuff as!well. And HN3. But HND.

[dusty trench]

@limber ridge and why I pitched this

This too

[limber ridge]

Yh i'm Reading the whole conversation that went on

[dusty trench]

Oh yup

[limber ridge]

Pretty cool stuff

[dusty trench]

I agree

[inland folio]

son😭

why would you ping me 6 times

its fine either way

[ripe berry]

then again as Alex said the Guest Lore didn't make much sense at the time of the books

https://twitter.com/aNichiporchik/status/1651362608937680896

Alex Nichiporchik (@aNichiporchik)

Many fans are asking what happened to the GUEST in Hello Neighbor 2

I have the answers in this thread.

X · Apr 26, 2023, 11:08 PM

[limber ridge]

Anyone ever found it interesting how Trinity has purple eyes and The Neighbor has green eyes? Both colours related to mayak. This 100% means that Trinity and Ted have the power of the mayak inside them. Ted manipularea weather while Trinity manipulates luck. They just haven't realised their power yet

The moment that will be inspired by Unbreakable in the finale will be Trinity surviving a ride crash no one could, by pure luck. And Ted will survive a mayak laser by manipulating the weather by accident

Trust me guys this îs huge

/j

[dusty trench]

Mb bro 😭. Just wanted to get some lore to you.

[ripe berry]

just as a note, I'd recommend to not use prototype stuff for too much unless:
It's one of the more recent builds of the game (example: HN3 Prototype 3)
or you have evidence it's still relevant to the current story (like Nicky having seen the Guest at some unknown point)
#old-rbo-discussion message

like we dunno how much of the Content Expansion would've been reworked into the final HNND

[dusty trench]

Yup 👍

[ripe berry]

so, for instance, Guest Kid doesn't HAVE to be Theodore just because that's who it was in the Alpha 1.5-Beta days

[dusty trench]

Yea

Atp it’s most likely someone else

[ripe berry]

by that logic you can say Pumpkin Kid is MitH because of the original version of the Halloween Incident from HGP

[dusty trench]

I never realized that connection. Never fully seen him as MITH at the time but, the glasses face mask. Could’ve been possible that what they were having as an idea.

I only really seen the girl representing Gerda

And the other kid maybe Leslie Kornwell but idk

[ripe berry]

yeah that was a connection that was easy to make
Polka Dot Clothing is consistent between HGP Girl, Alien Kid, and Gerda.

[ripe berry]

especially since MitH existed all the way back in HN1

[dusty trench]

Yea

[ripe berry]

or at least was implied to due to this background house

since, at least during HGA1, MitH has:
the HN1 Binoculars (uses them in some animations)
the Hat (duh)
and the Black Car (albeit an updated model from the HN1 Model)

[ripe berry]

however thinking about it, doesn't this imply MitH could potentially have a kid (due to the Swingset and the Basketball)?

[dusty trench]

Maybe it had some relevance at the time never fully thought out. Later on they started to competes more ofThere vision but in a way that fits later on. Maybe they already had an idea of investigators searching for Mr. Peterson secrets and the tow.

[dusty trench]

True, although could be an idea.

[dusty trench]

Wait idk why I read that wrong. I thought you were talking about HGP roller coaster. But maybe he does have a kid.

[limber ridge]

Now who could that kid be?

[dusty trench]

Wait, the house is red. Like Enzo’s clothing choice who is a child detective. And we know Enzo’s father knew more about the town and probably knew Norman. And we know we gets hints of Nicky and Aaron’s friendship in HN1 but everything fogged by fears since Nicky is mainly focused on getting over his fear, by understanding what happened to Aaron but in turn using that to figure out Mr. Peterson’s fear to see what he is vulnerable of, which we get hints with Theo locking away his fear’s in the end, and the ravens around, and the thing (fear) watching Theo cry hanging up a missing poster. And even just Act finale in general which I’ve talks about in the past. And while he want really focused on his friends because and other stuff like cult because of his trauma, he still gets hints of it in his mindset. So maybe, that house represents Enzo’s house. Maybe MITH, is Enzo’s dad in disguise.

[limber ridge]

Ooh

[ripe berry]

Miguel Espostio's AS Design, an image of MitH, and the closest thing to a full body of the Missing Journalist for comparison

[limber ridge]

I don't remember Miguel having a description in the books, but in the show they don't look very alike

[dusty trench]

True

[limber ridge]

Imagine If he's the father of Quentin and Beatrix

[dusty trench]

That would be interesting in a good way.

[ripe berry]

wait wait wait
MJ's are has a similar headshape to Quentin
MitH's model has the same type of ear as Quentin
and in SN one of Quentin's outfits is LITERALLY one of the ONLY two outfits MJ has ever been depicted to wear

[dusty trench]

Like a large broad-shouldered man. He has black hair and mustache. Light shirt with dark trousers and shoes. How Books describe him. Also accurate to AS.

[dusty trench]

Ooh wait

[arctic sapphire]

Hello guys im new

[ripe berry]

Welcome

[dusty trench]

Hello Neighbor 👋

[arctic sapphire]

Do you know that if you speed up the basement ambience on hn1 it Will sound like an cry

[dusty trench]

That’s actually quite interesting (ina cool way).

[ripe berry]

not only that but the literal MJ Clothing Quentin has also has a similar color palette (but not the exact same) to what Beatrix wears in Hello Guest (and Beatrix also shares the same earshape as Quentin and MitH(Ingame)

[dusty trench]

Omg. So Missing Journalist disguised as MITH, and father of Quentin & Beatrix.

[ripe berry]

(Quentin's MJ Clothing has the darker and lighter colors swapped from Beatrix's clothing)

[dusty trench]

@ripe berry can tie to this

And this

[ripe berry]

and remember
"rumor has it the Journalist(Quentin) knows the owner of the Hat" - Secret Neighbor Loading Tip

[dusty trench]

Your actually so tuff

[dusty trench]

We getting the family tree slowly

[ripe berry]

how did this not clock for me sooner

[dusty trench]

lol, yea I honestly love this theory that Quentin & Beatrix is actually the child of MITH/Missing Journalist.

[limber ridge]

Is the radio tower from bad blood any important?

Or just cool stuff

I'm pretty sure it's the latter but yk

[ripe berry]

yeah pretty sure it has some level of importance considering it was an important location in HE Prototypes and still has doodles of it in the final game

[dusty trench]

Yea, and the importance connected to Mayak

[ripe berry]

now the question becomes if the Quentin+Beatrix+MitH/MJ family tree can connect to any other characters in Hello Neighbor

[ripe berry]

also makes sense that when MitH disappears the Raven Brooks Banner would reach out to living relatives first and foremost, giving motive for Quentin to come from the Big City back to Raven Brooks

[dusty trench]

And we know he came back to Raven Brooks because of the Missing Journalist.

[dusty trench]

But who?

[ripe berry]

plus we know for a fact Quentin lived in RB at one point or else why is Beatrix's grave at the Church in Raven Brooks

[dusty trench]

True

[dusty trench]

Wait her grave?

[ripe berry]

presumably
since it has the newspaper of her disappearance in it

and the coffee cups surrounding it

and the monitor from the Raven Brooks Banner-

[dusty trench]

Implying Quentin and maybe MITH because his hats at top of church.

[ripe berry]

wait
Quentin lives in the Big City when he's an adult and only started to work for the Raven Brooks Banner
so the monitor must be representative of someone other then Quentin
MitH/MJ!

[dusty trench]

Why not MJ/MITH

[ripe berry]

that's what I said lol

[dusty trench]

Ooh I see wym

Read it wrong

lol

[ripe berry]

and people thought Beatrix's lore was MJ erasure at one point

[dusty trench]

Hmm

[dusty trench]

Oooh

Wait

[ripe berry]

(as in retconning Quentin's reason to go to Raven Brooks)

[dusty trench]

Yea

Wait what if he still is going because of his dad, and his sister.

[ripe berry]

the dad (MJ/MitH) is the motive for returning to RB
the sister (Beatrix) is the motive for trying to save Aaron

[dusty trench]

So not retconning

[dusty trench]

Do you have an idea for other characters to connect to that?

[limber ridge]

I'm trying to find anything that can Connect Smith to One of the hw incident kids

[ripe berry]

wait

@limber ridge

I may have just found it for you

(or in reality a friend of mine had a crackpot theory back in the day involving Pumpkin Kid potentially being Beatrix and Guest Kid being Quentin which we never shared and the similar clothing style to Beatrix (which is also similar to MJ/MitH's clothing in one of the images) was one of the evidence points)

[dusty trench]

OMG

Wait

[ripe berry]

maybe I was too quick to dismiss MitH being one of the Halloween Incident children even though HGP shows it was the case at one point in development

this also puts him around the same age as Theodore Peterson, Ike Gershowitz, and Norman Darby

[dusty trench]

So if MITH/Missing Journalist is pumpkin kid. Who’s Guest kid?

[ripe berry]

no clue

notably, he's the only one who's not depicted in a display case in HN2's Museum

iirc both Pumpkin and Alien Kid are

[dusty trench]

Yes

@ripe berry @limber ridge can connect to this

[ripe berry]

wait
Otto, willingly or not, appears to be working with the Cult in the AS
and you suggest the cult might've tried to indoctrinate the Halloween Incident kids
this photo

[dusty trench]

At first Otto was innocent. But the cultist knew that his friend Missing Journalist/MITH knew stuff about raven brooks and its past manly because of that childhood incident with the storm. So they forced Otto to work for them.

[ripe berry]

and where is MitH hidden in AS S2 Ep. 4?
Watching Otto's house.

[dusty trench]

Ooh

[oblique rock]

When does Act 3 Take place?

[ripe berry]

2017

[oblique rock]

Doesn't act 3 take place 19 years later after act 1 (and 2)?

[ripe berry]

Nikita also said Act 3 occurs at the time when HN1 came out on a stream more recent then that statement

[oblique rock]

Oh ok

[ripe berry]

and HN1 came out in 2017

[ripe berry]

gotta say, if this is intentionally linking Quentin, MJ/MitH, Beatrix, and the Pumpkin Kid
that is the best case of "Show, don't tell" storytelling

[dusty trench]

Yes fr. Like the amount of detail in each HN game is actually crazy. Like there is no coincidence that one of Quentin’s skins in SN is one of Missing Journlist clothing.

[dusty trench]

And it just fits HN to do sum like that.

[ripe berry]

especially since they clearly put a lot of care and detail into parts of the games

[dusty trench]

Yea

[dusty trench]

What if the red color on the house while it not meaning Enzo’s house or Enzo being in the family tree since it’s MITH’s house, it can show some connection in a way between Enzo being a detective like MITH. Not saying that MITH is his dad, but like a little reminder of Enzo and the puzzle masters in Nicky’s mind. Can even hint at the future role Enzo has later on in Reset Day. And the reason why the chose red for the color of Enzo and his role of being a detective, similar to how MITH/Missing Journalist are. Because late on Enzo becomes a puzzle master.

[limber ridge]

If we can discover all the possible connections of hw incident kids(or rather You, i just throw random ideas from time to time) we can get close to the guest identity, maybe

[dusty trench]

Maybe that can work

[ripe berry]

we've now got two of them
Gerda -> Alien Kid
MitH/MJ -> Pumpkin Kid

[dusty trench]

Now we need Guest kid

[ripe berry]

we know at one point in development Guest Kid was Theodore Peterson
BUT
the AS seems to make that impossible for the current storyline

[dusty trench]

Yea it can’t be Theo

[dusty trench]

Also considering this, that would mean Missing Journalist/MITH probably formed the puzzle master’s

That’s my name for them

[ripe berry]

then again maybe it's impossible to determine who Guest Kid is
because HGP doesn't give us any clues on where to begin to look
HN2A1.5 lore leads to a dead end
and they've never been directly addressed in the full game or RBBArchives

[limber ridge]

Yeah You are probably right

[dusty trench]

True. Only other character that kid looks like is Leslie.

But other than that idea and connection, there’s no evidence

[ripe berry]

although we could go the route of trying to look for a matching style of clothing with a character who'd be around the same age

since Alien Kid has Polka Dot clothing which Gerda also wears in the present day
Pumpkin Kid has the red and white striped shirt which he (and Beatrix (and one of Quentin's SN Costumes)) wear in the present day

that is the only possible place I can think to even try to look for who Guest Kid could be

but hey, 2/3 kids from the Halloween Incident solved is not bad at all
it's more then we had before

[dusty trench]

Yea, we only had Gerda because it was said. It just shows how conversations can jump many things, also showing the many connections between things in HN whether intentional or not.

[ripe berry]

yeah
if it wasn't basically spelled out for us, I don't think anyone would even have realized Alien Kid is Gerda

[dusty trench]

Yea

Also Guest kid being super mysterious is also kind of symbolic and representative on how Guest is rn.

[ripe berry]

yeah

[ripe berry]

and connections like this just slipped under the radar for most people

[dusty trench]

Yea fr

It shows how mysterious HN is with all the many details in the game’s, books, and AS too

[ripe berry]

yeah
you never know what might be a clue for lore

[dusty trench]

And what they can elaborate I’m on in the future

[ripe berry]

like the background house in HN1 that turned into the family home for MitH/MJ, Beatrix, and Quentin

[dusty trench]

Yea

[dusty trench]

And this too tying to some other stuff connected to this topic

It would be interesting to see that in HN2

[ripe berry]

going back to this rq
since Quentin, Beatrix, and MitH/MJ (Model) share the same earshape, if there's any other characters who are a part of the family tree, earshape might be a good place to start to find other potential family members for Quentin+Beatrix+MitH/MJ/Pumpkin Kid

[dusty trench]

Yea

[limber ridge]

The 2 other kids being anyone that is still alive (or at least that we have seen as an adult) is interesting because both the pumpkin kid and Guest kid disappeared according to the rbbarchives

[ripe berry]

yet Alien Kid (found) and Pumpkin Kid both have a display in the Museum, while Guest Kid doesn't

[limber ridge]

I guess maybe pumpkin kid was just found later in this case

Okay i'll need to reread(or rather, relisten) to the books and see if there's any character that can match the guest kid's design

[dusty trench]

Also it would be interesting character for Missing Journalist/MITH to hide away after an incident like that or like witnessing cult, mane seeing who they are and that they are hire up members of town, so hedonist trust anyone and keeps to himself and stays quiet now. But over time as he starts investigating members of towns and observing he town, he knows who he can trust. One of them being Otto, who was close to him. But Otto was forced to be an undercover cultist and get Missing Journalist/MITH taken out or kidnapped for info. But when he found out Otto betrayed him, he stays in the background even more now and hides himself completely. Later on he has kids Quentin and Beatrix. But he has one other friend Ike Gershowitz whose middle name is Quentin, and Quentin was named after Ike’s middle name. Wait that gives me the idea that Ike could be related to MITH, maybe a brother. Or just a close close friend who he would consider a brother. But mean he is a brother, since Quentin does look like him.

Maybe Ike is Missing Journalist/MITH’s brother.

Quentin named after him maybe.

[ripe berry]

some character images I have
(top row are the portraits of the Librarians in Late Fees, middle row is Janitor, Otto, two Tavishes, and the Mayor, and bottom row is Gerda, Jacob, Janusz, Isaac, and Keith)

[dusty trench]

And we know Ike knew stuff about raven brooks that Theo didn’t want anyone to know. So he kicked Ike out. Cult murdered him because they also don’t want info spread, and want to ruin Theo.

It is also common for people to name there kid after themselves or someone else in the family mostly a sibling. And there middle name too.

[ripe berry]

there's also the fact that there's 2 characters that BOTH match Quentin's description quite well in the books
(Ike Gershowitz and Norman Darby)

[dusty trench]

Also Ike was friends with many people in raven brooks (iirc), and he is also really kind to others.

[ripe berry]

what do you think the odds are that Norman and Ike could be half-brothers and Norman is MitH/MJ

[dusty trench]

And Ike had a device part in his wallet.

[dusty trench]

Norman is really short tho and is Aaron’s height

[limber ridge]

I was at first pretty sure that Ike was Quentin back in the hg days, but even back then that couldn't have been true because:

1. Guest is hostile to Quentin, guest was Ted, why would Ted be agro to Ike?
2. Hg was about Ted and Aaron hiding in the GAAP after act 2, by which point Ike died

[dusty trench]

But Norman could be half brother with MITH tho

[dusty trench]

And Alex said he wasnt Ike early on, and even Ike died

[ripe berry]

Norman, Ike, and MitH/MJ could potentially all be related then
because what the odds that Quentin, Norman, and Ike all look similar to each other and DON'T share some kind of family relation

[dusty trench]

Norman maybe half brothers with MITH/Missing Journalist

Ike could be half or full blood.

[limber ridge]

I'm pretty sure Norman looks mostly similar by clothing. Not much else. I mean, he has messy hair i guess

[dusty trench]

True

But that can be a hint too

[limber ridge]

It can

But i think it's more of a hint to their friendship

[dusty trench]

Probabaly

[limber ridge]

Actually. I think i was wrong Quentin has pretty long fingers.

[dusty trench]

But I do think Ike can be related to MJ possibly a brother who Quentin is named after

[dusty trench]

Forgot Norman had long fingers

And Beatrix too

Talking her old model as an idea

[limber ridge]

Mhm

[ripe berry]

remembering something RavenBrooksCitizen pointed out in dms back in 2024 and-
ah shoot, here we go again...

(same-ish earshape, similar noseshape)

[dusty trench]

Quentin and Beatrix mom

[dusty trench]

And she’s the archivist which can mean she would know stuff about raven brooks as well. So maybe she is a puzzle master

She could’ve quit because of the cultist librarian. Or maybe she fired because of the cultist librarian. Like with Roger & Adele, a situation happened between her finding out too much so she was fired or maybe framed for something. She might be hiding out too.

[limber ridge]

The thought of MJ together with the previous librarian is... Interesting

[ripe berry]

(we call her Author/Archivist because they seem to be holding the Archives book in the image and the RBBArchives makes mention of an Archivist existing at one point in the Library's history)

[dusty trench]

Yea, and it’s honestly fits tbh

[dusty trench]

Yea

[ripe berry]

and, if you think about it, it makes sense a family of Journalists (MitH/MJ, Norman Darby, and Quentin) would be tied to a person whose career is to archive information

[dusty trench]

Yea

Honestly this is like, really crazy to think about. But it makes so much sense.

[ripe berry]

I personally believe all of the Librarians might be related so I guess this makes the current one as of HN2 Quentin's cousin or smth

[dusty trench]

But why would she not trust Quentin

[ripe berry]

simple
the family split
Cultist Librarian raised the modern one
Archivist raised Quentin

one side of the tree's with the cult

the other's against the cult

[dusty trench]

Makes sense

[limber ridge]

Which is the cultist librarian? The one from the middle?

[dusty trench]

One with they eye

[dusty trench]

Yea the middle

[limber ridge]

Ok makes sense

Gotta Say an eye symbol on a turtle neck is an interesting fashion choice

[ripe berry]

besides, need to get the genetics for Beatrix's Green Eyes somehow

[dusty trench]

😭yea

[dusty trench]

Yea

[ripe berry]

which the Cultist and Green Librarians have

[dusty trench]

Maybe current librarian could be Archivist sister

[ripe berry]

I actually see the Librarian part of this Family Tree more like this

but either could work

[dusty trench]

That makes sense

[limber ridge]

Hmm. So the current librarian is working with the cult. The previous one was anti-cult. The one with the eye symbol is a cultist or works with them. What do we make of the other 2?

[dusty trench]

Maybe not cultist

Idk

[ripe berry]

partly because, again as per my friend RavenBrooksCitizen, we have a theory that the wallpapers in the restricted section are the order of the family tree of the Librarians in reverse
(1) Floor - Final Blue Wheat Wallpaper (N/A)
(2) Floor - Purplish-Gray Arrow Wallpaper (Current Librarian)
(3) Floor - Blue Flower Wallpaper (Cultist Librarian)
(4) Floor - Another Blue Wheat Wallpaper (???)
(5) Floor - Green Wallpaper (Green Librarian)
(6) Floor - Red Wheat Wallpaper (Red Librarian)
(7) Floor - Blue Wheat Wallpaper (???)
Heart Room - Black Brick (???)

[limber ridge]

I'd say cult because the long nose looks like that of Ms Tavish

[dusty trench]

Wait

What if

Wait no way Tavishes are related

Omg

[ripe berry]

I know there is a gap in the middle of the wallpaper theory thing here
BUT
we also have the Historian, who is quite literally Blue (matching the wallpaper color), has a career that fits one of the people in the next generation (Historians and Archivists would logically work together), and is said to be the oldest still alive citizen in Raven Brooks by the time of HN3, making her likely a whole generation before Theodore, MitH, and the Archivist
so she could also be tied into the tree

[dusty trench]

Also this

[ripe berry]

waitwaitwait
so the Museum likely started out as a manor that belonged to someone important to Raven Brooks, possibly the Founder or their family
it's colored Red
MitH/MJ's House is also Red
the first known librarian in that part of the family tree is the Red Librarian
(Forgot to credit to RavenBrooksCitizen originally so editing the message to add credit)

[dusty trench]

Oh

My

God

Wait

Guest Kid has red

[limber ridge]

Who would have thought the story is actually about the....

[dusty trench]

A whole lotta red

[limber ridge]

MJ family

[dusty trench]

This franchise just keeps getting crazier and crazier

[ripe berry]

and you know what the clothing pattern we used to link MJ, Quentin, Beatrix, and Pumpkin with is?
White and Red striped shirts

[dusty trench]

Omg

[ripe berry]

it all connects

[dusty trench]

Holy

[ripe berry]

(may not necessarily be the Founder's Manor, but it has to be somehow important to the town since it seems to be a late 1930s manor that got turned into a Museum)

[dusty trench]

Yea with the bed and everything

[ripe berry]

plus if the Historian and Archivist are part of the tree then it makes sense that the Tavish(?) Manor got turned into a place that Archives History

[dusty trench]

That would explain why cultist wouldn’t want you to go there

[dusty trench]

Yup

[ripe berry]

and even when the HN2 one got closed the Historian later makes a new one as seen in HN3

[dusty trench]

She is tied to the family tree

[limber ridge]

Which would make sense, considering we know Historian has some Lore relevant backstory

Since Nikita said he won't reveal it

[dusty trench]

She would be trying to get the truth out there. But cultist wiped out most info, so she is searching for it.

Which can even tie into cultist learning loops too and taking control in Reset Day.

[ripe berry]

the family tree as currently proposed

(PM badge represents Norman Darby, photo at top (from HN3) represents the founders of Raven Brooks in general)

[dusty trench]

Historian the mother of Archivist

Quentin’s & Beatrix grandma

Librarian Quentin’s cousin, a cultist. Same with the aunt of Quentin & Beatrix a cultist.

[ripe berry]

forgot to put a few things (MitH (Pumpkin Kid) being friends with Guest Kid and Gerda (Alien Kid), Ike + Norman's friend circle/"The Puzzle Masters")

[ripe berry]

if we want a proper name to call MitH/MJ by
I theorized at one point that the code for the RBBArchives could be MJ's name
the code is HATCHERYWINGATE
and from that I got Hatcher Y. Wingate

[dusty trench]

Which would mean the Tavish last name comes from the Mr. Tavish’s family. Since eve at the time it was common for a wife in culture to change there last name for there husband, Diane for example.

[limber ridge]

Quentin Wingate.
Beatrix Wingate.

[ripe berry]

(and Hatcher literally has Hat in the name, so in a way it could be a pun name)

[dusty trench]

Which leaves Quentin’s moms last name family name a mystery

Maybe

Wait. There last names are Gershowitz.

Talking about Archivist side of the family

[ripe berry]

!

[dusty trench]

Or Darby

One of the two

[limber ridge]

Did Ike also have a family or am i misremembering?

Like a wife and maybe kids?

[dusty trench]

Wait I’m not sure

Wait no he doesn’t have kids

Wait so Ike could be Archivist brother, Quentin’s uncle on the moms side

And that’s where Quentin’s name comes from

His moms side of the family, Gershowitz

Which would make Ms. Tavish last name originally Gershowitz.

[limber ridge]

And where does that leave Norman? Someone's step brother i guess?

[dusty trench]

Maybe a friend

[limber ridge]

I think Norman was Ike's friend at first or his stepbrother/Cousin /whatever.

Because Roger and Adele reached out to him specifically to expose the cult. We already know they took Ike in for dinner. So i think he has a connection to Norman before anyone else.

Hmm... Interesting

[ripe berry]

my personal suggestion? this.

[dusty trench]

I can see this

[ripe berry]

Ike is a brother to the Cultist Librarian and the Archivist
Norman's a half-brother to Hatcher/MitH

[limber ridge]

Makes sense, but i still hold to Ike being step brother of Norman because of this

[ripe berry]

either or could work

[dusty trench]

Or just full biological brothers

[limber ridge]

Different family names

[ripe berry]

different last name so either half-brother or step brother

[dusty trench]

Forgot bout that

[dusty trench]

I can see step brother

Or half because the fingers

[limber ridge]

Y'know... Archivist does have some Red stripes on her. Slight but there.

[dusty trench]

Oh yea

[limber ridge]

On her... purple coat

[dusty trench]

Red, Purple, and green. Interesting color choice.

[limber ridge]

Red, purple.

[dusty trench]

Talking the green librarians too (like general family colors chosen).

[limber ridge]

Reminds me of a certain child that should be around Gerda and MJ's age according to what you've theorised thus far

[ripe berry]

...!

[dusty trench]

Wait no way

Omg

[ripe berry]

wait
did we actually do it
did we find someone who fits the outfit of Guest Kid?

[limber ridge]

Maybe. If that's be the case we kinda have to leave guest kid being guest behind, which i already feel like doesn't have the biggest of chances.

[ripe berry]

also we say they're related to the Tavish Family
the Tavish Family owns the Golden Apple Corporation
and you know what pin Guest Kid wears?
A Golden Apple

[ripe berry]

yeah...

[dusty trench]

Yea

[dusty trench]

Omg

[limber ridge]

Because the guest is refered to as a he most often.

[ripe berry]

at the same time
it explains why Gerda was found first
she'd be the only one of the three who ended up joining the cult

[limber ridge]

🤯

[dusty trench]

Exactly. The other two ran away. And ended up together

[ripe berry]

Gerda started to get others into the cult via the Inventor's Club

[dusty trench]

Which ties to that one message I mentioned

[ripe berry]

meanwhile Archivist and MitH became part of the circle that's against the cult (alongside Theodore, Ike, Norman, Rita, Miguel Esposito, and Jay Roth)

[dusty trench]

Except Theo betrayed because he wanted to fix the past.

Keep experimenting with time

[ripe berry]

even then Norman and Jay still worked with him to some degree to make sure the timeline doesn't deviate too much from how it's meant to go (as per Stage Play Theory)

[dusty trench]

But later on he got worse. He didn’t want to expect the future, stayed in the past.

Leading to destruction

[ripe berry]

and later Archivist and MitH have Quentin and Beatrix
and when Beatrix goes missing likely due to the cult, Archivist takes Quentin to the Big City where he'd be safe.

[dusty trench]

And later on Enzo joins

[limber ridge]

i find it interesting how Beatrix has the eye symbol on her. Which is connected to the cult

[dusty trench]

And it’s closed

[ripe berry]

and signs someone into Raven Brooks without permission... perhaps the Archivist herself since she's the only known member of the group who would've been out of town.

and in the Mayak Event you gotta close the eye painting eyes to activate the Mayak iirc

or was that MitH event?

[limber ridge]

You have no idea what a itch on my brain was just scratched

[dusty trench]

MITH

But the power in the house turns off when you hit all eyes

[ripe berry]

thx on that one

[dusty trench]

Your welcome

[limber ridge]

Been asking myself that one for ages

[dusty trench]

Me too

I knew it had to be someone important

Maybe something me banned from town

[limber ridge]

Well, bye guys, hope i was of any help to You.

[dusty trench]

You were. You found out an identity for the Guest kid was for us. And the theorist fans. Thank you 🙏.

[ripe berry]

cya
you were of help by introducing a few ideas including the Archivist being Guest Kid one

[ripe berry]

wait
that's another evidence point connecting MitH/MJ to Quentin and Beatrix
both MitH and Beatrix are associated with closed eyes to some degree

[dusty trench]

Yoo

[ripe berry]

the only other place I can think of closed eyes being relevant is that you have to close the eyes of the gnomes to be able to see the cultist symbols
and the Guest in some drawings (like the HGP logo) has a closed eye

[dusty trench]

I wonder what the closed eye meaning is.

Wait

Hold on

I believe I mentioned closed eyes before

Ima try and find it

Idk when I will but let me know any other pints you found, or connections.

[ripe berry]

not you but #lore-discussion message

unless you mean in like some private server or dms or wherever you pull some of the huge text walls from sometimes

[dusty trench]

Idk if it was in this server or on discord at all. But I usually express lore on discord.

[dusty trench]

Oh yea I remember that

I think I remember it being about the hello neighbor 1 cover. With the two ravens.

It is interesting however when you hit the eye’s they close and turn off the power of the house.

[ripe berry]

wait

the cult is why some people in Raven Brooks have power and get what they want.
the eyes are a symbol of the cult
and in SN when you close the eyes you close the source of power

[dusty trench]

Which can tie into the eyes being related to Mayak. And maybe the illuminati eye. Since Mayak eye is always watching. But you close the eye and it can see or control anything.

[ripe berry]

I'm assuming ai is a typo here?

[dusty trench]

Meant to say I

[ripe berry]

yep

but hey
we've made quite a bit of progress already

[dusty trench]

Yea. I’m really proud of the discussion today. This might be my fav HN theory. Everything even stud mentioned from the last tied together with this.

And the ideas present

[ripe berry]

solved a good chunk of Quentin's family tree, Pumpkin Kid, Guest Kid.

[dusty trench]

Yea fr. You and @limber ridge did a ton in this. I appreciate that.

Stuff like this just makes me love the HN fandom.

[ripe berry]

and hey
that's why having multiple people build off each other's ideas is good

[dusty trench]

Ay, It’s all about teamwork

[ripe berry]

and even if we don't have things exact
we at least now have a framework for this part of the lore

[ripe berry]

and are a bit closer to a complete timeline of events

also if MJ and the Archivist are about 53 like Theodore, Ike, and Norman are
that puts the median age for Quentin and Beatrix at 26

and I'd say that's a good age for them

[dusty trench]

Yea that’s pretty accurate

[ripe berry]

also would put Beatrix's disappearance in ~1980

[ripe berry]

(assuming Beatrix and Quentin were 10 when Beatri went missing)

[dusty trench]

That lines up pretty well to me

Dang I can’t believe we are clearing to some timeline stuff rn.

[ripe berry]

hey, if an idea gets proposed it's best to make sure the idea works with the timeline

[dusty trench]

Facts

This tells us a lot about HN2. Gives it more depth.

[ripe berry]

and running with the whole ~26 and a half years per generation thing has enough room for all of the post-RB founding generations and puts the Red Librarian as a young child when RB was founded

[dusty trench]

And a ton about the franchise. Like the Tavish bloodline. More on the puzzle masters, and even Mr. Peterson’s character.

[dusty trench]

Oh yea

[ripe berry]

wait nevermind miscounted
(actually produces 1969 (Quentin, Beatrix, and Current Librarian), 1943 (Archivist, Ike, Norman, MitH, Cultist Librarian), 1916 (Historian), 1890 (Green Librarian), 1863 (Red Librarian), 1837 (Kids who we there during town founding), 1810 (Adults who were there during town founding))

[dusty trench]

Ohh that makes more sense okay.

Dang we could even tie this to more cult origin stuff

[ripe berry]

(assuming 1842 is the founding date due to that being the earliest year directly mentioned in this franchise)

[dusty trench]

Damn. Who knew Quentin & Beatrix would be related to the town origin by blood.

[dusty trench]

Yea was that in HN2 library?

Or am I misremembering

[ripe berry]

deleted room from Back to School

[dusty trench]

Oh yea

[dusty trench]

Knew it

I think we talked bout that a while ago

[ripe berry]

and either way we know Raven Brooks was founded sometime in the 1800s due to HN3

[dusty trench]

You mentioned it

[dusty trench]

Yea

1842 would line up with the rest of the timeline and peoples birth tbh

And it wouldn’t make sense if founded later on than 1800’s anyways

[ripe berry]

the Cult existed in some form when RB was founded iirc

[dusty trench]

Probably not like evil tho.

Like how they become

Like the symbols of raven man and the eyes were positive. Until greed & obsession got involved

[ripe berry]

and overtime the Raven Man became less and less like it's original self until all original context was removed

(that is until the Guest Festival is revived)

it still has the association with weather
but instead of stopping and protecting from storms it's now actively causing them

[dusty trench]

But The Historian is trying to make sure it keeps storm away.

Aka Quentin & Beatrix’s grandma.

[ripe berry]

the only one who still remembers the original intent with the Guest

[dusty trench]

And maybe Quentin & Beatrix know now too because they are most likely puzzle masters now (mainly Beatrix). But Historian is the oldest so yes. She knew before anyone else who is still living.

[ripe berry]

oh, and might I add that the next thing we see the Raven Man in chronologically after the festival is a show at the Cinema
and in the books and Secret Neighbor the Golden Apple Amusement Park (which has the Guest as it's mascot) has a theater

[dusty trench]

Yes definitely

They tarnished it into a evil corporate mascot to lure people into there schemes.

[ripe berry]

which implies that's the point the Golden Apple Corporation took control of it

[dusty trench]

Yep

And later on they are trying their hardest to come back, which we see in HN3. Except maybe cult isn’t there anymore in town, and it’s there legacy we see.

[ripe berry]

like there's Golden Apple Publishing
the Golden Apple Supermarket
Golden Apple Healthy
etc.

[dusty trench]

Exactly. Milking out anything they can to still function

[ripe berry]

(Golden Apple Publishing made this)

[ripe berry]

(only bit of that book we know is)

[dusty trench]

Mr. Peterson, who is in rage of people celebrating the town symbol that was meant to be positive, is trying to get rid of the town. And the town sees it as a cheerful symbol of hope, but the fact Mr. Peterson’s is trying to destroy of course everyone will view him as the storm bringer since he is now negative.

[dusty trench]

Ooh

Wait

No way

They exist outside of raven brooks now

Which means

Cult is still around

Which can confirm my suspicion about what is happening outside of town.

They elevated

Just not the town itself

Because of Mr. Peterson

He’s trying to end everything

While Historian is trying to bring back what was once positive.

[ripe berry]

he's trying to destroy the town and spread the pain he himself felt instead of moving on and looking towards the future

[dusty trench]

Wait

The cult is using Raven Brooks name of a ghost mysterious town as branding now. Can explain the rumors and more people outside knowing about it. Because it’s a trap. A lure to get people to the town.

[ripe berry]

or whoever owns the Golden Apple Corp as of 2028

[dusty trench]

Which would be modern cult in a that way. They are carrying on the legacy of the past members and town mysteries.

[ripe berry]

even if they're not the cult itself
they're aligned with what the cult once did

just like the Vandals, they aren't the cult but are aligning themselves with what the cult used to do

[dusty trench]

Yup

The legacy lives on

And the pain too, with Mr. Peterson’s rage.

They are trying to get people to come to raven brooks and shut down the raven man festival. Making sure the festival won’t happen. Or make sure it happens, because they know Peterson will end up raging and destroy them probably without paying attention since he is blinded by rage. So they are trying to get the town members killed, so they can continue plans maybe in, and outside of town.

[ripe berry]

and just like Peterson, Nikita's implied via Signed that the Vandals aren't really in the best place mentally either, and just like Peterson, could be acting out of rage at the world and pain
#basement message

(if you can see message considering it's in the Basement channel that not everyone can access)

[dusty trench]

I don’t have access to the link but yea I see wym. You ca tell vandals aren’t okay mentally. Even Coned sitting down staring into space, Signed sitting animation he looks stressed out. Holding his head and looking down like everything’s crashing down in his head. And the vandals act out of rage.

[ripe berry]

if not-

[dusty trench]

Got it

[ripe berry]

(this is the only time he's spoken about one of the vandal's personalities directly)

[dusty trench]

Dang

I mean wants to keep it a mystery

[ripe berry]

(unless there was something I missed in the devlogs)

[dusty trench]

Other than they are the local vandal’s, that’s more deep into a vandal personality.

I always seen them as edgy or sum like that because of mental reasons, especially considering they are t the cult and aren’t even working with the golden apple corp.

[ripe berry]

yeah

and at least with Signed, that's confirmed

[dusty trench]

Maybe all of them are like that tho. Coned looks sad when he’s sitting down, looking down. Covered likes to stay hidden and not looked at mate because she’s insecure about herself or sum.

[ripe berry]

yeah

[dusty trench]

Actually that part of Covered is said in devlog 3 so we do get sum character info.

[ripe berry]

again, shows the level of detail Nikita's putting into even the literal prototypes of HN3

[dusty trench]

Yea. He’s inspirational lowkey

[ripe berry]

and Nikita implied that HN3 will mainly be environmental storytelling since outside of the intro there'll be no cutscenes as far as we know

which means HN3's already set itself up to have a TON of stuff to analyze when the full game releases

[dusty trench]

And maybe other cutscenes within game like maybe Peterson reveal Sven but finished like in P3. Or Issac meeting Guest. And newspaper of Raven Brooks destroyed will be shown. Just a few cutscene to show canon stuff in game. Like maybe Guest meets Isaac, but we save him from Guest, and get identity in game. But how we get to that stuff is up to us, the player. And newspapers, pictures, drawings and other stuff like notes showing and telling lore within HN universe, like bringing up Tavish name. Town creation, Mr. Murtaugh disappearing but in a sound tape we can hear kids talking about Mr. Murtaugh death in that view. And we know it’s the Beckie of other games. Newspapers saying the rescue squad kids went missing, Nicky Aaron and Mya missing. And Franklin too. Maybe a note by Peterson and old notes and sound tapes from cultist explaining what happens to Franklin and other characters. And Historian can have notes too like may may archived stuff that can paint a picture, taking details from other games, the books, and AS. Maybe even a sound tape or tapes of Nicky & Aaron’s time in basement. A note or blueprint of Mr. Peterson’s underground amusement parks stuff like that, and I can go on. This game will be packed with many many, stuff within that contain lore. Why not take other medias. Put stuff that happened in AS and books in game view more like the specifics. Movie can take book, game, and AS stuff and detail in movie view. But like more specific details. Characters like Norman Darby mentioned in games. Roger & Adele more. Or Piper & Delia. Sound tapes or recording of and notes of when Enzo & Maritza are adults. Stuff from Enzo’s kids, Piper & Delia. Tapes and sound tapes showing GN1 or GN2. I can’t wait for this game, I hope they do this stuff.

[dusty trench]

Yea

I cannot wait

[ripe berry]

one thing I forgot to mention is the Museum in HN2 has some of the exact same books as used to unlock the restricted section of the Library (they're used for a puzzle)

which can be argued as further evidence to link the Librarians and the Museum

oh, and as for why I think Eye/Cultist Librarian is Current's mom and not the Archivist is because Cultist Librarian has Blue Eyes, a trait shared by the modern Librarian
meanwhile the Archivist has an eye color we dunno the irl genetics of (a pink color, similar to Trinity in the AS having purple eyes)

[dusty trench]

Oh yea I believed that when you said eye/cultist librarian is mom, and Archivist is Quentin’s & Beatrix’s mom.

[ripe berry]

just figured I'd bring up some genetic proof like with Quentin and the Archivist being related

[limber ridge]

I think Historian and Archivist could be the same person. The main problem is ages, we know Historian is currently the oldest RB citizen, and The age gap between her and The Neighbor looks bigger than a few years, but even then, as of hn2, the age gap looks pretty big too, so just looks alone isn't reliable enough.
Outside of that, Since the Historian is the one who brought back the festival, If The Archivist is the guest kid, it would make sense she is trying to give The Guest his old context back, maybe he was a character that she liked, which would be why She chose to dress up as him in the first place. Of course, i could be missing Something here, but i'd say it adds up.

[wanton roost]

I FINALLY FOUND THEM

[limber ridge]

🥳

[wanton roost]

I knew I was. Gon find these in dubai I'm so happy mann

[eager island]

why 2 waking nightmares

[wanton roost]

I picked up the collection and waking nigjtmares but I js got the collection

[dusty trench]

Also can tie into a theory on why characters look like that in HN3 is cause people see town as a ghost town. Or like crazy town on the outside like some tale, and we see that through the people in town. Because at first they don’t trust you and you might not trust them. And people on the outside might jays view the town folks as crazy, or creepy. So it makes sense. Also it can even show that in people’s view, they see different sides of the town through the town folks as they learn about them more. At first glance they may seem basic or just like crazy people. But there more you learn about them the more you learn about the town. And Historian being the archivist and looking like how she does in HN3 could make sense case of that of the skin tone, body shapes & proportions. But I honestly don’t see Historian being Archivist. Again lie you mentioned, she looks way older but also the fact that Archivist also looks older than Peterson but not like a huge jump tbh. Also the fact the librarians have a ton of makeup on can tie in. And it seems very intentional to mar Historian way older than Peterson.

[dusty trench]

And this women looks like Historian to me.

[glacial whale]

So one has red letters and the other yellow?

[wanton roost]

The one with the collection has red letters i think the book by itself has yellow colour font

[ripe berry]

the only reason I don't see that is the wallpaper theory RavenBrooksCitizen and I have where each floor of the restricted section (outside of the top one) represents a generation of the Librarians, going from youngest to oldest
(1) Floor - Final Blue Wheat Wallpaper (N/A)
(2) Floor - Purplish-Gray Arrow Wallpaper (Current Librarian)
(3) Floor - Blue Flower Wallpaper (Cultist Librarian) (Archivist also was born in this generation, but wasn't the Head Librarian)
(4) Floor - Another Blue Wheat Wallpaper (???) (can't be Archivist since she wears Purple and Red)
(5) Floor - Green Wallpaper (Green Librarian)
(6) Floor - Red Wheat Wallpaper (Red Librarian)
(7) Floor - Blue Wheat Wallpaper (based off math, this Generation would be children during the founding of Raven Brooks)
Furnace/Heart Room - Black Brick (based off math, if this floor means anything this Generation would be adults during the founding of Raven Brooks)

[ripe berry]

and the only character who can fill the gap who fits into that generation of the tree is the Historian

[glacial whale]

I went to check mine out of curiosity and they are caked in cobwebs and dust. Shows you how much I read them

[wanton roost]

do you live in a 1980 library

[wind wagon]

What happend to Nicky when he was in the basement

[limber ridge]

Trauma happened

I don't really remember that well, but Aaron was there

The books also showed it had a mini amusement park built in

[wicked heath]

Whats with the yellow Waking Nightmares

And why do you have two Buried Secrets

[limber ridge]

He got one with a collection and one by itself

[wicked heath]

Ah

[limber ridge]

Same for this

[wanton roost]

But I just bought the collection though

[limber ridge]

Oh yh

[wanton roost]

I wanna find aarons books and neighbor notebook too

I swear I could spit theories now if I knew what were in them

[limber ridge]

Eh, the neighbor notebook is pretty full of missinformation.

[wicked heath]

Forget the notebook

It doesnt know what its talking about

[wanton roost]

Dang it's that bad? How many types of misinformation does it got in there

[dreamy sluice]

isn't that the one that claims to give a layout of the act 1 house

and then proceeds to just give a poor version of the announcement trailer's layout

[dusty trench]

I feel like that’s clearly on purpose. Like a combo of different house views that characters have in game, put into a guide book. Like the prototype house has some similarities to the HN1 houses, H&S which we see distorted at the end in Mya’s mind. And the house is more similar to like SN. But has an interior like an HN1 house. Not literally, but has faint similarities. But it adds stuff to th house, either form the game or related to a characters mind. It talk’s about an elevator like Act 3. The tool room in the back spot like act1 and 2. And the outline of a hour that would be in SN. I feel like it’s an example of what gas could be like, hinting at the house and what’s going to be in each act (maybe SN with an outline shape). For the audience to view in ways but it’s all amalgamated, Like that house description and drawing is on purpose. Viewing a mix of different views in each game. Same with Neighbor’s inventory, talking about like inventory Raven Brooks citizens will have including lie stores and stuff and what they can have. Like the boxes yea can break stuff, building to go up, and trolling. Lock picking and keys. Talking about the general of lock picking and unlocking doors, just in an audience view. Inventions & the tools section talks about how Mr. Peterson has tools in his house like cameras and stuff. But you ca use metal objects to your advantage like magnet gun. And for stuff like crowbars, wrenches, and shovels like crowbar used for knocking down boards, wrenches for unscrewing or screwing something, and shovel for digging. But why it takes about them like that and especially for getting out of the house is representative a bit on how Mr. Peterson boards up the windows. But also representative of the characters exaggerated mindset’s. Like Mr. Peterson trapping them in the house with tech, something we see in AS S1, and even HND. Also the traps in SN later on and even bear traps placed in HN1 and SN. And think to the inventor’s club.

[glacial whale]

Well I put them aside and haven’t really pulled them out in years or when I first read them which was when each one came out

[dusty trench]

They deal with technology, even not just the inventors club but even other characters hat come later on. They slowly understand crowbars tech and stuff, and use it to their advantage. Like Quentin in HN2 escaping where Peterson is staying at which is museum with crowbar, wrench, first extinguisher, and key too. And Act2, Nicky can use the crowbar, he has to heat up stuff, twist wheels. And even later on in HE kids are escaping Peterson. But it’s not the house. But they envision it as when they were escaping his house before. I’ve talked on about game a like S&R and HE and even the AS and what stuff means and suck before but those tie into this. Same with the costume thing at the beginning. It says a costume is a good way to sneak around, it’s just giving out H&S and SN in a different way that’s outside of the view in games which are those characters perspective in the actual game. Like in H&S if you look at the character models when in a level, they are wearing different cloths and they look like a costume. Even HN2 way later on implies that Aaron & Mya maybe had costumes, or maybe like in H&S they just envisioned the costumes. And in SN the characters are playing roles of wha they are good at or things related to themselves, there character. And the game plays out like as if the character’s are playing a game, even in brawl modes later on it’s like that. And in SN we literally wear a costume to hide the fact of being the Secret Neighbor. A disguise to sneak around. Why it says escape those games is because well, you beta those games. And also in H&S is can mean like how Mya is escaping Aaron in hide and seek tag or sum. Just exaggerated in Mya’s view. But what about SN. Well it’s talking strictly that time period of the game. But also really talking about like maybe escaping the neighbor in gameplay, or neighbor escaping the others beating him up. So multiple things for that one. And the sonar thing.

[dusty trench]

Why it says Nicky wouldn’t give to see The Neighbor coming through the walls is because it represents Nicky’s fear of Mr. Peterson that he just wouldn’t handle it anymore. And in SN the kid’s see Mr. Peterson going through the bookshelf, not literally going through the walls though, that’s exaggerated in the mind’s. But why it says the sonar found in SN is because the buttons that you ca click and it’s a sonar for a limited time, you ca find those buttons all around the map. But why it’s shows the sonar ability from old SN is because Mr. Peterson in his office he also has a sonar he has unlimited access to. Also the fact that the gameplays out as of the kids are playing a gem. I’ve elaborated more on that in the past, even that type of symbolism is present a bit in all games, not just with playing agar material but even deeper. And it’s just using old SN as an example, which is why we see the older kid models and the sense item at this time period. The sonar item is an example metaphor, for the audience to view. Stuff amalgamated into one, to create an item. Why the old SN kids is because well the main menu almost looks like a campfire story. And raven brooks is known for its tales in town, and people in town love spreading rumors and tales. Even later on in AS when the cop is on the phone and Trinity brings up the area, cop ask’s if it’s a prank call, implying Nicky on Peterson, but also maybe other kid teasing Nicky and people who actually believe by prank calling the police. And that ca be explained why it’s Nicky’s backyard exaggerated since he was the first kid to express his thoughts on how weird Peterson is and spread it everywhere, which that leaves crumbs for tales to rise. That’s why the random old SN kids are present and they are all random to represent random town folks. And the golden apple being called mysterious and symbol of the town tells a lot. We know at this time period when thy started the books, SN, and H&S, thy planned out more for the cult