lore-discussion

[brittle olive]

Theo

[digital basalt]

yea but, who do you think Theo is?

[brittle olive]

Theodore Masters Peterson

Dude

It's the neighbor

[digital basalt]

Yea i know

[brittle olive]

?

Than why did you ask

[digital basalt]

nevermind

[little lodge]

I think he meant who, as in who you were referring to by saying Theo was someone

[little lodge]

He was talking about the Guest

[digital basalt]

So he was thinking that Theodore is the Guest?

[brittle olive]

No shit Sherlock

[digital basalt]

-_-

[fallen fox]

who is the player from the anouncment trailer and the pre alpha? like we never got to know his name and it cant be nicky because nicky looks way diffirent then the old player maybe hes still trapped in a coffin

[digital basalt]

Is the pre-alpha man

I think he doesn't have a name

[eager island]

its just a placeholder model

they didn't even think that pre-alpha man would be in the fg

[digital basalt]

He was used for the Hello Neighbor 2 ending too

[eager island]

its a placeholder too

they are not stupid

they are not stupid enough to expose an important person in the story with just a console command

[digital basalt]

I know. But the shadow was that

[fallen fox]

what ending

can yall send me what ending from hn2 are yall talking about wit hthe place holder model?

[eager island]

wait a second

[fallen fox]

ok

[digital basalt]

The ending after you escape the museum

[fallen fox]

really?

can you show me?

[eager island]

this is the model of the person who hit quentin in the files

but its just placeholder like pre-alpha man

[fallen fox]

like after quintin escapes the museum in game he gets hit i dont know that because i never beaten the entire game

[eager island]

wait a min

[fallen fox]

ok

[digital basalt]

A theory sais that it was a placeholder for a forest protector

But we will never know that becouse of the patch 10 never releasing.

[eager island]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/720318918165659779/1124835925831188601/YouCut_20230701_175406452.mp4?ex=67751f57&is=6773cdd7&hm=6cc678fd45e45246fdc441e5091f22f01ccfc46da916b8909e5399d2fb91b132&

dont care about song and quality

but this is the end of hn2

[eternal mica]

what year do reset day take place in

[safe charm]

We don’t know

[eager island]

unknown

[fallen fox]

i saw it

[ripe berry]

theorized to be 2022

2021 for Raven Brooks

[eternal mica]

oh but I feel like it happened like before act 3

[ripe berry]

can be any year after 2021 in the timeline

[eternal mica]

and thats 2015

[eager island]

(and this is probably the end of the nintendo pre-release build but don't care)

[eager island]

its 2017

[ripe berry]

2021 can't budge

[eager island]

whos saying act3 is 2015

[ripe berry]

Nikita has claimed both actually

[eternal mica]

the wiki 😭

[eager island]

dont use wiki

its dogshit

[eternal mica]

ok lol

[ripe berry]

he said Act 3 is 19 years after Act 1 (Act 1 is 1996)

[eager island]

who says act1 is 1996

[ripe berry]

and he ALSO said Act 3 takes place the year HN1 Came out

[eternal mica]

in reset day they never mention that nicky came back and I feel like they would have

[eager island]

act 1 is probably like 1998

[ripe berry]

logic

the milk cartons expire March 1997

HNHS ends May 1996

thus

Act 1 occurs in 1996

[eager island]

on a milk carton in hn1 it says it was maded in 1997

[ripe berry]

yes
it EXPIRES March 1997

HNHS ends in May

[eternal mica]

so likely made a year before

[ripe berry]

HNHS was originally said to be a direct prequel to HN1

[ripe berry]

thus

[safe charm]

reset day basically lol

The whole town is in a time loop, Enzo is missing, guest somehow is the neighbor very likely and I think that’s it

[ripe berry]

using just HN1 and HNHS

Act 1 is in 1996

[eternal mica]

yea cuz the neighbor died right somehow

the guest

killed him

[ripe berry]

SebtFebore is Best Before
the Milk is best used before March 30th, 1997

[eternal mica]

in the gn

[eager island]

neighbor is not dead

also

[ripe berry]

aka it expires after that point

[eager island]

books arent canon in the way what we think

[eternal mica]

the guest legit choked him out underwater I think hes dead

[eager island]

.

[ripe berry]

aka HN1 is before March 1997 but after May

thus HN1 is likely in 1996

also

[eternal mica]

i dont think a human can survive that

[ripe berry]

retroactively

Hello Neighbor 2 doubles down on the 1996 date

[eager island]

that event may not have even happened

[digital basalt]

Like the FNaF books?

[ripe berry]

if you go to the Mayor's House before Day 4
it says the year is 1996 through the Mayor being at the "Star Championship 1996"

[eternal mica]

it did in the graphic novel and it makes sense because he is somehow posessed in reset day

[eager island]

as i said before

[ripe berry]

HN2 says 1996
Books say 1996
HN1/HNHS say 1996-early 1997

[eager island]

.

[ripe berry]

thus
I think it's clear 1996 is the intended date for Act 1

[eternal mica]

ok but how do u know this

like

[eager island]

but also nikita says act3 is 2017

[safe charm]

Doesn’t matter they are still canon and graphic novel 2 is said to directly tie into a game

[eager island]

nikita

[eternal mica]

why woudlnt they be

[eternal mica]

bru

[eager island]

gn1 is said too

[ripe berry]

Nikita could've messed up the math with the 19 years statement

[eager island]

but yk

[eternal mica]

yea exactly cuz the books tell a big poriton of story you cant just rule them out

[safe charm]

Btw The guest literally uses voodoo dolls in hnvr

[eager island]

they are currently building the lore on AS

[ripe berry]

besides
I think it's better to use the date the GAMES AND BOOKS BOTH repeat then the date implied through statements that could've easily been messed up

[safe charm]

No

They are not AS is just another version

[eager island]

some time ago the books were even separated into old lore

[safe charm]

By fans not by the devs

[ripe berry]

Fandom did that
Not the Devs

[eager island]

but now everything will be explained in AS

[safe charm]

The books and AS is equal in terms of canonicity

[eternal mica]

animated series also takes place after the books 4 5 and 6 so they could still be canon

[eager island]

no

[eternal mica]

and aftyer book 1

[safe charm]

The AS is also not canon in the way we think btw

[eager island]

trinity is on raven brooks in aaron trilogy

[eternal mica]

wtv u say buddy

[eager island]

hn2 too

[ripe berry]

I'd rather believe the newer source inside the games/books (HN2) then the older source outside of the games/books (Nikita's 19 year statement)

[eager island]

idk but how did you know that reset day is 2021/2022?

because I read the book again a few weeks ago and saw almost nothing historical

[eternal mica]

it makes sense that it is before 2015 tho

[ripe berry]

in the beginning of the book they say the concrete they're at is 25 years old
they're at the former GAAP area
the concrete covering the GAAP (in the books) was laid in 1996
1996+25=2021

however

Reset Day is different in that there's TWO times we gotta account for

[eager island]

but in the world its 2022 or something like that right?

[ripe berry]

the Raven Brooks Time (November) and the IRL time (in the Summer iirc)

[eager island]

because raven brooks stuck in november 2021

[ripe berry]

thus meaning RD is at the earliest Summer 2022

[ripe berry]

yeah

[ripe berry]

exactly

[quiet matrix]

milk doesnt last long

so the milk was made in march 97

and expires in march

[ripe berry]

newer evidence says HN1 is in 1996 so that's what I go with

[quiet matrix]

it's in-date for five days

[quiet matrix]

i know, it was retconned to 1996

[eager island]

if milk is left unopened at room temperature, it can last up to 4 months, Google says

[quiet matrix]

either that or they forgot to update the milk carton

[brittle olive]

It was, LayoutV2 confirms it

[ripe berry]

hell
the retcon would've had to occur as early as HNHS

because HNHS ends in May

so either almost a full year passes between HNHS and HN1 even back then

[eager island]

books and h&s retconned each other even while they were developing at the same time

[ripe berry]

or HN1 was set in 1996 as early as when HNHS released

[ripe berry]

because Book 1 was originally non-canon

[eager island]

yep

[ripe berry]

the decision to canonize the books came last second

[eager island]

it was just inspired by thing

[quiet matrix]

PRODUCED: March 25th, 1997
BEST BEFORE: March 30th, 1997

[ripe berry]

hell iirc they even at one point printed copies of Book 1 that gave Mya and Diane the wrong hair color

[safe charm]

No Nikita said it was made canon pretty early I think

[ripe berry]

so THAT'S what that said

[brittle olive]

Fnaf books are canon

[quiet matrix]

only some of them

[ripe berry]

(I couldn't figure out what the Ropsued text was bc I kept thinking sued was meant to be used for some reason)

[quiet matrix]

some of them arent games timeline and others just arent relevant at all

[little lodge]

All we know is that some point in writing them, they were decided to become canon

[ripe berry]

but also the Milk Cartons probably shouldn't be used as evidence in the first place now that I think about it

becuase HN1 Act 3 is concretely in the 2000s

[quiet matrix]

as i said before

hn1 act1 was probably originally 1997

[brittle olive]

Tales from the pizzaplex are all cano right?

[ripe berry]

yet it still says 1997

[eager island]

but this was probably decided before the drawings were made

[safe charm]

This is what he said

[eager island]

in here

[ripe berry]

the Milk Carton in Act 3 (Nicky's Apartment) still says 1997 despite that being at least 18 years ago and at most 20

[eager island]

it wasn't mentioned here that it was canon early on

it mention it wasnt canon early

[safe charm]

It’s canon now at least

[eager island]

bot not in the way what we think

[safe charm]

Doesn’t make it non canon

[little lodge]

I honestly have lost track of what's still being discussed

[eager island]

bot

[ripe berry]

meaning the Milk Carton is simply a texture they didn't fix

[quiet matrix]

yes

as i said

its probably one of these 3 things:

[little lodge]

Guys Nicky is poor but not poor enough to drink 20 year old milk, it's just a texture that they didn't need to fix

[quiet matrix]

HN1 in general (before the modern story) was 1997
act 1 was 1997
act 3 was 1997

and act 1 was even further back

very early in production

[eager island]

how act 3 was 1997

[quiet matrix]

oh my god

what im saying

[safe charm]

I don’t think act 1 existed before beta 1?

[quiet matrix]

is that maybe at one point

act 3 was 1997

and act 1 was decades BEFORE that

70s

[little lodge]

Well yeah, in the betas

[quiet matrix]

yes

they likely didnt update the carton

[little lodge]

When full game came out, act 1 was 90s

[quiet matrix]

the cartons texture is outdated

[safe charm]

Weren’t we litteraly Ted son so how would act 1 played out back than

[eager island]

act1/tutorial existed in alpha2 times but the story wouldn't be like act1

[quiet matrix]

whatever part of the game the milk carton was textured for was 1997

[little lodge]

In HN alphas, it takes place in the 60s/70s, in HN betas, it takes place in 1997, in HN full game, Acts 1 and 2 take place in 1996-1997 and Acts 3 and Finale take place in 2015-2017, it's that simple

[ripe berry]

which based off Act 3 being the most complete part at the time would likely be Act 3

[quiet matrix]

this is what im saying

it would make sense since nobody uses VCRs in 2017

[eager island]

technology is not important in the hn universe

[little lodge]

Nicky's poor, AS Pilot shows us his car is his parent's car

That's why he has old tech as well

[quiet matrix]

the AS is not related to this

also VHS tapes are collectors items nowadays

[eager island]

cuz both smartphones and square televisions are used at the same time in AS

[quiet matrix]

if he were really broke he would have a cheap dvd player

[little lodge]

I'm saying that the reason he has old tech and his parent's car (as seen by the AS Pilot) is because he's poor

[eager island]

and he was fired from his job too

[little lodge]

He literally gets evicted from a terrible tiny apartment

[little lodge]

Yeah

[ripe berry]

Nikita decided that "technology works differently in the HN Universe" to excuse not giving them new models for Act 3

[little lodge]

He could've just said it's because Nicky's poor and that would've made it a lot easier

[quiet matrix]

ok

something you guys arent understanding

im talking about PRIOR stuff

why there WAS a vcr in there

in the context of an older story

[little lodge]

We do understand, the story was changed

[quiet matrix]

do not use the AS in this conversation

because it isn't relevant to this

[little lodge]

They just didn't want to make new technology models for like one or two conversations

Chill out, I'm not

[quiet matrix]

not you

[ripe berry]

I was just using that to explain why it's STILL there

[quiet matrix]

just the chat in specific

[little lodge]

I'm just explaining why Nicky having old tech in the new lore makes sense

[quiet matrix]

it does

[little lodge]

Somewhat

[quiet matrix]

but im referring to the reason why

he had it PRIOR

[little lodge]

Yeah, because old builds were set before 2010s

Like the pre alpha is set in 1962, the further you go back in builds, the further you go back in real time

[ripe berry]

because that is a genuine question that would've spawned from it

[quiet matrix]

this is why im bringing up the milk carton

because if that isn't for act 1

then it raises questions

[little lodge]

They just didn't feel the need to change the texture from the betas to match chronology in a way no one would notice for years

[ripe berry]

I remember the Milk Carton already had it's new texture in Beta 3 times

[ripe berry]

(Bijuu Mike had a video that mentioned it because Sebtfebore looked like September)

[little lodge]

Man I wish I found out about HN earlier

[quiet matrix]

not september

[little lodge]

I only joined between HNHS and SN I think

[quiet matrix]

Septfebore is Bestbefore

[ripe berry]

I was saying Bijuu Mike thought that texture said September
and that's how I know it existed in Beta times

I understand it's not September

anyways enough on that

[ripe berry]

I joined around Alpha 3-4 times

[eager island]

joined before alpha4

i left after fg came out

and i came back with hello guest but then i realized that there is a game called hello neighbor hide and seek

[ripe berry]

I left around HNHS times and rejoined around the time HG dropped

[eager island]

h&s was initially an epic exclusive game

and I hadn't even heard of its existence

i had heard of Sn but I played it because it didn't appeal to me that much (in 2019 ig)

[little lodge]

I’m glad I at least got to experience early SN, HG, and HN2 alphas, they were the second gold era after the HN1 alphas imo

[shell gull]

What’s going on in Lore Dis.

Catch me up.

[safe charm]

Basically hell because the lore makes 0 sense currently

[willow depot]

Not much because all we have to go off is scrapped lore

[marsh idol]

no one knows

the main focus lately was the guest

which is hard to even understand what he is entirely because there's many scrapped content VS vr content VS canon game content

which the first 2 are unconfirmed to even be canon

[shell gull]

Always has been.

[safe charm]

Like the guest currently makes absolutely 0 sense lol

[shell gull]

Everything’s HN Media is Canon in some way that includes HNVR as well.

[shell gull]

Nothing makes sense.

[marsh idol]

i'm talking about which part of HNVR is imaginative and which isn't

[safe charm]

Nikita even implied hn2 is canon but not in the way we think it is

[marsh idol]

because there's many times we have been told directly that the guest ISNT super natural

yet many occurrences that suggest he is

super speed, strength, control over the crows in some way, shapeshift

[shell gull]

Well if you mean Guest World/The Nest, which sure is Dream World but also in RD is a shown to be a Real Place, any part that involves R.S. going into a Game Sequence that is fabricated, that’s Guest World/The Nest.

[safe charm]

How do we even explain this lol

[marsh idol]

so supernatural?

or hallucinations and dreams, hard for me to follow along

[shell gull]

Yeah no the whole Guest isn’t Supernatural is some of the most non sensible thing possible, quite literally everything points to him being supernatural in some sort.

[shell gull]

In some cases it can seem to be a dream but no Guest World is indeed a Physical Realm you can end up in.

[safe charm]

Yeah I feel like maybe Nikita’s vision isn’t supernatural but hnvr and reset day portrayal has to be

[marsh idol]

some people say he's Theo which is just outright stupid

[safe charm]

Nikita doesn’t even know the full lore of hn2 fg so I doubt much connection will be in hn3

It will probably steer away from the AS/hn2 lore if anything

[marsh idol]

maybe back then it was hinted that he is, but now that theory is definitely untrue

[marsh idol]

yea i never believed anything (respectfully) from them

[safe charm]

No he litteraly said he don’t know

[shell gull]

When The Guest was first made he was initially supposed to be Ted, quite literally in HG he IS Ted, and in RD he takes over Ted’s Body.

[marsh idol]

but though his body shape, and head shape does not align

[safe charm]

So I don’t think hn2 guest is even remotely close to Nikita vision of the guest

Probably entirely different

[marsh idol]

oh what the feighbor

[shell gull]

Anything after NIkita left was outside of his work, that’s why him saying The Guest isn’t Supernatural is most likely based on what he worked on, everything else was outside of his work so a different Image of The Guest.

[shell gull]

That’s because in HG Ted got very depressed and lost tons of weight and basically became deranged.

[safe charm]

Adam said he was told the identity of the guest and that it will make us go

HOW?

[marsh idol]

yea but still his head shape shouldn't change, so i think the shift in the guest's identity is for the better maybe? design choice probably doesn't matter but still that's my opinion 🤷

[shell gull]

One thing that’s been constant mostly is The Guest having some sort of link to Ted in some way.

That’s always been a factor with The Guest.

[marsh idol]

yea i notice

in HNVR a shadow of the guest was seen tormenting him while he sits in the living room

which, interesting but i thought that job would be the shadow man

because he is the manifestation of anxiety and all of that

same one torturing nicky

[shell gull]

That’s because The Guest wanted to use Ted for his own benefit.

[marsh idol]

which we don't know what his goal really is besides stealing things from people

[shell gull]

There’s also the Manifestation Theory from a long while back that made perfect sense before the Lore got so jumbled, if you want to know about it I can tell you.

[marsh idol]

what happened?

new lore that impacts the shadow man now?

[shell gull]

A Theory a while back that got built on so well that it made sense but then got ruined with the “Everything is Canon”.

[marsh idol]

how did the "everything is canon" ruin the theory?

some media that downplayed it?

[safe charm]

Well there’s now multiple versions of the guest

But all of them is canon as well

[shell gull]

In a short summary the Theory was IMO my favorite and best, basically it seems that The Guest function very similar to The Thing (Shadow Man) a parallel between Nicky and The Thing and Ted with The Guest, The Thing got stronger the more Trauma and Fear Nicky had which is what created The Thing, The Guest seemed to get stronger the more Sorrow and Sadness Ted had, they both were Manifestations of the people that created them, the only difference was Nicky’s was Mental and in his head while Ted’s was physical, which is why The Guest existed physically.

I can go deeper and deeper with stuff like SN and how the R.S. Also had something similar in that Game.

But due to the whole Everything is Canon and how The Guest is so different across Media because of that, the Theory made zero sense in the common Lore now.

[marsh idol]

lowkey such a good connection

[shell gull]

Mhm

[marsh idol]

but either way collapsed

https://tenor.com/view/hello-guest-the-guest-hello-neighbor-hello-neighbor2-the-kra-gif-20969609

[shell gull]

Yup but back then was the perfect Theory that made perfect sense.

It made more sense to the fact that The Guest was fading away when Ted was getting over his Sorrow in GN2 and The Guest was provoked and attacked Ted to make sure he kept those Emotions so he wouldn’t disappear.

[marsh idol]

but now he's now sort of an actual being

[shell gull]

Yup.

[marsh idol]

able to interact with the many folks at Ravenbrooks

which definitely makes the lore harder and complex to understand

like zang tho

would've been better if Tinybuild just thought to keep some parts of the fans' theories connected to their lore

which now just seems like they're adding new lore each time

[shell gull]

If you want the Doc that was made for the Theory here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/10eHyfLOZDA2Vf6LTM4BKnbXa1WCPVji_1JyznL1uZ38/edit

But now it’s old news and basically trash

Honestly outside The Guest there’s a lot of other things that don’t make any sense.

Such as Aaron in HN2 when in HNVR he was Trapped in The Nest at the end, and a bit more.

[marsh idol]

damn

[shell gull]

Coolest thing to connect Manifestation was the fact it lines up with IRL Sleep Paralysis Demons.

People in the real world do see Figures when they’re Traumatized or having Bad Thoughts.

[ripe berry]

yeah...

[brittle olive]

Basically guest neighbor theory but even cooler

I talked about this theory once

Honestly my favorite one

[tall citrus]

is the new as season out?

[brittle olive]

No

[manic dirge]

I love the added music

[raw fractal]

dear god

the switch ending AND the edited music

here take the original unedited switch ending
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/720318918165659779/1215724458057400380/Old_ending.mp4?ex=6776d7a1&is=67758621&hm=22968a6de5e1848bd9868993588a6b9f8a6b8893c98322ca5ca9fb007a58aef6&

i love that the music kick is delayed until quentin motions for him and aaron to leave

[eager island]

switch ending is better

[shell gull]

That’s, a really really weird take.

[willow depot]

Honestly I agree with Kryptqn

[willow depot]

It's way shorter, and the ending feels like less of a spit into the player's face

Because it doesn't make Aaron decide to help his father completely last second

Yet kinda wish there was more emphasis on his decision because otherwise it seems more like a betrayal

It doesn't solve the absurdity of the scene with how in the middle of everything some guy just sneaks on Quentin and hits him in the head

But it's still

A little bit better

[safe charm]

Okay so it’s likely graphic novel 2 story is old as hell

It’s definitely not connected with hn2 fg in anyway because it was probably written with old hn2 story in mind

[little lodge]

Yeah, GN2 was meant to tie into old HN2 which is basically what HN2 Alpha 2 would've been but as a full game

[safe charm]

@astral agate

But yeah looks like graphic novel 2 is very likely tied with old hn2 as it’s very old

[astral agate]

Oh?

That's interesting

So ig this means it's not really canon?

[safe charm]

It is though lol because everything is

[astral agate]

Oh

[safe charm]

Hn2 just doesn’t make any sense with it

[dry patio]

everything is canon

[astral agate]

Yeah

The state of the lore is really hard to understand atm

Because there's no way everything fits into one timeline

[safe charm]

Want me to summarize reset day for you

[astral agate]

Sure

[safe charm]

So a girl with her family moves into raven brooks because her dead recently passed away

She notices that the whole town seems to be stuck in November as well as the guest starting to stalk her both physically and through her phone

Eventually she discovers the whole town is stuck in a town loop with Maritza sons who’s now an adult thinking it’s Mr Peterson

Eventually they try to escape the town but gets chased by the guest who starts to change its appearance to having a mustache for a moment

Also it’s discovered that guest is holding Enzo hostage because he had something guest wanted

And at the end guest kidnapped the girls mom and sends a message revealing himself as the neighbor

Very poor summery but still

[spark tulip]

it definitely is animation-wise at the very least

[safe charm]

• Hn2 story is litteraly mostly meaningless now because they cancelled it

[astral agate]

So reset day says the guest is ted?

[safe charm]

Basically yes

[astral agate]

I wonder if this is the guest shape-shifting or being manipulative, since they suspect its ted so maybe he's trying to throw them off by disguising himself?

Idk

[safe charm]

Btw noxified about hn3 guest he was likely hunting Nikita through the forest in a devlog while he sounded differently he kinda gave me patch 9 guest vibes

[spark tulip]

i don't want cowman.

[safe charm]

It’s not like the sounds can’t be changed

[little lodge]

Hello Guest Crowman is supreme

With his creepy ahh sound that would play when he's near you

And he'd stare into your soul when he caught you

Hang on what even was that sound meant to be?

The first sound in this video that he'd make in Hello Guest

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRNlTex-SGk

[nimble jetty]

I believe the whole “Guest is Neighbor” thing was retconned

[safe charm]

Well reset day is still canon though

[nimble jetty]

Yeah I mean I guess but not in the way we think

[safe charm]

Well stuff like the AS is also not canon in the way we think

[nimble jetty]

Btw is it a time loop or is it just a thing that resets everything that happened at the beginning of the day? Like let’s say you move a box, then the loop happens. Maybe it just resets the box to where it originally was and it doesn’t affect time? Because how can a time loop only affect one little area and not the entire universe? Wouldn’t people outside of Raven Brooks age differently? Like if they walk out of Raven Brooks will it suddenly no longer be November? Maybe it seems they are stuck in November because the calendar resets?

[safe charm]

It resets everything in raven brooks I think but not outside it

It’s only raven brooks that are in the loop

[nimble jetty]

Yeah because I like to think it’s like Bendy and the Ink Machine

It’s a loop that puts everything back to normal but it doesn’t affect time

[brittle olive]

What about the other devlog?

I don't think it was the guest at all

Didn't we see a pair of eyes in the dark or smth

[shell gull]

Well because of GN2, The Guest is actually possessing his Body.

[brittle olive]

I don't think It's possesion

There's a part in GN2 where the girl says the neighbor and the guest are the same cuz they take away stuff from people

And he said "how did you know?"

[shell gull]

I don’t remember that line at all

[brittle olive]

I think it was manifestation plot

The part where Theo fights the guest is happening in his head (kinda symbolizing the neighbor succumbing to his evil side aka the guest)

[shell gull]

That was her assuming, and Ted didn’t say anything because the way she was describing him was right, The Guest was using Ted to get what he wanted using his Emotion to get him to try and get revenge on the Town, before Ted changed his ways which set The Guest off and caused him to drown Ted.

[shell gull]

Yeah but RD says otherwise when The Guest is shapeshifting through The Guest Form and Ted back and forth.

[grim pecan]

I wonder if the reason the Thing appeared for Nicky in the show as a kid is because he was still constantly being told about Mr. Peterson. While in the Books/Games Canon, He wasn't. So then MAYBE (I don't know for sure) but the Thing only appeared years later when Nicky remembered the Neighbor in 2015 (when act 3 takes place)

[grim pecan]

I think Franklin Peterson is the Guest

[brittle olive]

In reset day it is

But apparently timeloops aren't important to the story so

[dry patio]

Nikitas story*

[sleek meadow]

K

[feral imp]

there are 2 Aaron in hello neighbour hide and seek in the begining

[marsh idol]

what

[shell gull]

The Thing is quite literally his Trauma tormenting him, it’s obvious anything that has to do with his Trauma would trigger that Torment.

[willow depot]

Raven Brooks is almost Gotham level of criminal, why didn't Nicky get a therapist or something right away

[dry patio]

His parents dont care

[eager island]

nicky had already gone to a therapist before staying in the basement

[shell gull]

He already had a Therapist.

[wicked heath]

Raven Brooks and Gotham are SOOOO different

Wait hold on, actually they have a whole cult and they kill a bunch regularly and... oh maybe you’re onto sth

[dry patio]

They both have a cult that controls almost everything in the town

[willow depot]

One thing they have in common is being stuck in a loop of hell because authorities/government/local vigilantes don't do their job properly

[brittle olive]

Who is the mayor again

[wicked heath]

Hey at least they dont have lunatics like Joker

[willow depot]

At the very least you could excuse Raven Brooks since there it seems like the reality itself is being changed just to make cultists' lives convenient

[brittle olive]

Isnt the mayor part of the raven brooks government or smth

[willow depot]

Yep but like

[brittle olive]

Well that explains it

[willow depot]

I doubt that he's the only person of the administration

[brittle olive]

Raven brooks is a hell of a town because the government is part of a cult

[willow depot]

But eh fiction's fiction

[brittle olive]

Yeah definitively not

[willow depot]

See in Raven Brooks it's believable at least because

I mean cultists can judt

Bribe anyone with their luck shenanigans

[brittle olive]

Can what

[willow depot]

Ok in short they can just go "Hey don't tell on us to the law enforcement and have good luck for 100 years!!"

[brittle olive]

Well yeah

[willow depot]

Yet still that's not super solid either

I'm still sure that government figures with more authority could step in

If not for the sake of doing the right thing then at least for the sake of being greedy and keeping juicy luck devices to themselves

When are we getting "Hello, National Guard!"

[brittle olive]

Hello government

[willow depot]

Does the Raven Brooks Police Department even have firearms

I mean it's not like there has ever been/will be a situation where that fact will be showcased

But like

Well, on one hand that'd make dealing with local cryptids a lot easier

On another, God forbid cultists get their hands on guns

[shell gull]

Yeah they do.

[shell gull]

I wound really compare RB to Gotham but RB is pretty much Silent Hill.

[steady nest]

Bro if the cultist would have guns it would be game over for everyone

[safe charm]

Heres what i Think About the guest

When Nikita made the story guest was not supernatrural than During hnvr period he started becoming more of a supernatural being

But than for the AS They wanted to ground the story so they made him a non supernatural being again

For hello Neighbor 3 i hope the hello Neighbor vr version is used as i Think its the best one

[crude dew]

every time someone mentions the supernatural sh I'll post a handsome fanservice neighbor image

[willow depot]

incredible.

better pull your whole folder

[cold gull]

Supernatural guest

[pine python]

Why dosent the neighbor just call the police, is he stupid?

[brittle olive]

Supernatural quentin

[brittle olive]

Last thing Peterson would want is the police involved in his shit lol

Also we kinda know some of the police mans are cultists like leslie so they probably don't even give a shit depending on how many cultists there is in the police station

They're just waiting till the kids take down Peterson so they can act

[shell gull]

Because there’s Cultist apart of the police, same people he’s against.

[pine python]

What the hell is the lore of this game

[brittle olive]

Cult curse family, family dies, father gets depressed and locks son in basement, father turns evil, father wants revenge on cultist, game happen

I have this doc here made by @/Mr.Apple in case you wanna know THE LORE
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1U1fS1FXlaXSx5koL46CniMBRaxmw92qJnR5s60Iu6PA/edit?usp=drivesdk

[crude dew]

** **

[crude dew]

the police is made of corrupt cultists
they are worse than criminals, so

[crude dew]

#media message

bruh sorry for double ping, I meant to turn it off

[marsh idol]

2 lore answers
first they may check the neighbor's house because nicky would have a defense for breaking into his house, and the neighbor was never fond of the police literally hiding from them.

or because they have cultists hidden everywhere

[tall citrus]

when as s3 out

[dry patio]

Alex said "soon"

[cedar forum]

Guys

I think we will see hl movie in 2026

[cedar forum]

We dont know wen soon means it can be days weeks,months,years,decades,millennium,supereon

[manic dirge]

Yep Half Life movie

[dry patio]

Yep

[polar epoch]

It was planned to come on December must have got delayed

[brittle olive]

It wasn't planned

[polar epoch]

Alex said that

[brittle olive]

Alex said he wanted to release the first episode in december

But it wasn't guaranteed

[brittle olive]

He didn't say it was planned, just that he wanted ti

[polar epoch]

Okay

[frail loom]

hi

[safe charm]

@shell gull soo apparently reset day and graphic novel 2 was written in 2020

Graphic novel 2 was fully written by the time Bosco bay released according to the writer

[shell gull]

I mean yeah it takes time to get things published out.

[shell gull]

RD is obvious when early on they already were working to have it connect to HN2.

[safe charm]

It’s just that it’s possible guest truly was the neighbor

Because at that time it’s possible that was the plan

Also now wth is going on in hnvr if guest was never supernatural that’s the question

[shell gull]

Well…yeah, that was his Original Concept and Lore, just the Books had a different way of showing that.

[safe charm]

The devs of hnvr said it holds the answers to some of our lingering questions

[shell gull]

Guest quite frankly is in HNVR Nikita was based on everything just referring to his work with HN.

Steel Wool had its own thing going with The Guest.

[safe charm]

It’s possible they made their own version

[shell gull]

HNVR Guest is obviously inspired by Book Guest.

[safe charm]

I’m so disappointed hn3 likely won’t have hnvr guest

Since you know I don’t think Nikita would wanna use it

[shell gull]

Well it’s up to the Devs and Nikita what they do with him.

[safe charm]

Do you think guest had an origin in hnvr
Besides manifestation theory which is possible

[shell gull]

All I really hope for with The Guest in HN3 is for him to have the Big Role he’s needed.

[safe charm]

Same

[shell gull]

Eh I don’t see anything else making any more sense with an Entity.

[brittle olive]

Yeau

[eager island]

it was probably like that

hg/early hn2 - guest is not supernatural (according to nikita)

hn2 beta/fg - guest is not supernatural too (according to adam)

hnvr - guest is probably planned to be supernatural

as - not at all super natural

hn3/current lore - guest is not supernatural

[safe charm]

I hope they don’t just go back to alpha guest

[brittle olive]

Reset day/GN2- guest is the neighbor

[shell gull]

I mean The Guest is the only Character interpreted differently across Media.

[shell gull]

I want something that’s a mix to AS and Books.

[safe charm]

I want a mix of hnvr,book and hn2/AS

[shell gull]

He’s not supernatural but still this powerful being that is in control.

That’s what I want.

[safe charm]

I still prefer hnvr approach of him being a otherworldly being

[shell gull]

Somebody that the whole Town fears just like in the Novels.

[safe charm]

Cause He can do stuff like this

And turn into a crow

[brittle olive]

He Is COOL

[shell gull]

I want him to work like The Ink Demon in Bendy, he will randomly appear and when he does you have to try and quickly hide and not be noticed.

[safe charm]

Same!

[shell gull]

That’s just my hope.

It’s all up to the Devs how he acts.

[safe charm]

I hope he’s not just some goofy bird man in a house again collecting scrap

[brittle olive]

I want to him to be a stalker

[shell gull]

But PLEASE don’t make him like every other Character where he acts just like a Person.

[brittle olive]

I like goofy guest:(

[safe charm]

Hn2 alphas made him too human like imo even if he was one

[shell gull]

I prefer what they did in HN2, he doesn’t stalk you but is quite literally hunting you.

[brittle olive]

Huge disagree

I really don't like him in patch 9

[shell gull]

Damn.

[brittle olive]

I think patch 9 AI should be like a state he can be, like a rage mode or smth

So he has the stalker mode and then rage mode

And also shelter mode ig (he hides in a shelter and collects stuff like scraps at day)

[shell gull]

While it’s highly not possible if they had Voice Acting I’d love to hear The Guest say stuff to you randomly throughout the Game, if I were to give him a Voice Actor I’d choose Ron Perlman, just look how terrifying he is as The Lich in Adventure Time.

[safe charm]

I also hope they make the neighbor scary or unsettling in hn3

[brittle olive]

I think the guest shoudl mimic voices

That would be cool

[safe charm]

I need him to feel like in the books more

Intimidating and eerie

[brittle olive]

Also guest should definitively stalk other NPCs

I think it was confirmed he's gonna do that

[safe charm]

More so Implied

[shell gull]

Imagine this kind of VA with The Guest:

https://youtu.be/FrlymHW0qU8?si=CAdJBj5bCmLnfPcR

[brittle olive]

Which is very interesting

[brittle olive]

Eh

That doesn't fit him

Imo

[safe charm]

Also man I hope hn3 overall feels a bit darker

[shell gull]

I think it would work if they did it right.

[brittle olive]

Tbh i like the guest without a voice

But If he does have one it should be like, all distorted and stuff

[shell gull]

Please make the Game not Kid Friendly.

[safe charm]

Nah

[brittle olive]

And he makes bird noises while talking

[brittle olive]

No?

Why would you want that

[shell gull]

I want to see Ted sucker punch someone.

[shell gull]

NO not that way.

[brittle olive]

Ik but like

[safe charm]

What version of hn1 is the best in your opinion

Or well least bad if you hate them all

[brittle olive]

Why woudl you want it to be 18+

[shell gull]

Because the on thing that’s held back HN from actually being terrifying and serious is the fact they focus the Franchise for children WAY too much.

HN2 was pushing it a bit but could’ve been farther.

[safe charm]

That I agree with

But I think 18 is an overkill

[brittle olive]

HN was never horror

[shell gull]

Actually fair.

[shell gull]

Exactly.

[brittle olive]

Agreed

Like yeah, it could be scarier but 18+?

That's Just... No

[safe charm]

I just want hn to be as unsettling as the old fnaf games for example

Because it genuinely has potential to be with its concept of sneaking into a person house

[shell gull]

I want to see The Guest be terrifying, if Poppy Playtime is Gore Filled and still manages to keep its Community HN can too.

[brittle olive]

HN3 won't be violent though

[safe charm]

It’s sad they said it won’t be a horror game

Especially cause hn3 have the perfect atmosphere to kinda be one

[brittle olive]

And again, in my opinion i wouldn't HN to be "gore filled"

This type of stuff never really fit HN even from the alphas

Like more scary? Yeah, gory? No

[shell gull]

But I want it to be mild violence like HN2 with Ted literally smacking Quentin with his Shovel and laying him out.

[safe charm]

You can hear him in devlog 1 and some of the sounds sound creepy

[shell gull]

But I want it to push it a bit further.

[shell gull]

Yeah he’s terrifying.

[safe charm]

It sounds like an actual animal

[brittle olive]

What if we could drive cars and ran over NPCs

Bro's gonna receive the HN2 barn treatment

[shell gull]

I think they can refine it and fit the Old Guest Craws within those noises and it’d be really good.

Like after a Groan follows that Guest Gurgle he makes.

[shell gull]

Exactly that’s what I mean.

Violence but nothing insane.

[brittle olive]

I am powered by neural network though

Im gonna run over players cuz it's fun

[safe charm]

A game like fnaf 1 did horror well without overdoing it

I want the guest to be eerie or like something you find uneasy to be around

[brittle olive]

Me when i crack my neck

[safe charm]

New guest sounds probably

[shell gull]

I mean…they kinda have been, look at the the Tall Guy:

Fits that perfectly.

[safe charm]

True

[eager island]

or devlog monsters sound /jk

oooor

[shell gull]

Also what makes me feel like that’s The Guest in the background is you can hear Warning Clock Chimes just like he has in HN2.

[brittle olive]

Didn't we see an eye in devlog 1.5

Im not sure if this monster chasing Nikita is the guest

[safe charm]

That was just the thing

As Nikita was talking about his fear so it appeared to represent that

[brittle olive]

That's interesting

So, maybe the thing is returning?

[safe charm]

Eh maybe but idk

[shell gull]

You can hear Clock Chimes echoing in the background similar to his Suspense Theme in HN2 being a Clock Ticking.

[brittle olive]

Like, maybe there's a sanity system or smth and when it's low you just start seeing the thing

[shell gull]

HG did have an Anxiety System.

[brittle olive]

Or maybe there's certain stuff that can happen to you that can give you trauma, like for example, the guest kidnapping you

[shell gull]

Too much Anxiety and you’d blackout.

[brittle olive]

And when you have a trauma you can start hallucinating it

The thing

[safe charm]

Anyways do you think guest could be a forest protector in current hn2 lore it seems the most likely to me

As he’s literally wearing one of their symbols

[shell gull]

It would be nice if HN3 had Character Customization instead of a Character given to you for the Games Plot, since we are an Outsider.

[brittle olive]

He probably uses them

[shell gull]

Well he is their Leader that’s all we know.

[brittle olive]

But overall he probably just does his stuff alone

[brittle olive]

God

[shell gull]

Both in a way yeah.

[brittle olive]

Im still wondering if we Will see the cult in HN3

[safe charm]

Is the cultist in the front wearing an eye or apple symbol

[brittle olive]

I wonder how their design would be liek

[safe charm]

Or wait it’s a coin

[safe charm]

Are the forest protectors barabaric in the books?

[brittle olive]

Am i the only one that finds this design bad

I really don't like their mask

[shell gull]

Apple.

[shell gull]

Eh not really.

[safe charm]

Because I don’t see guest just taking of his costume and going to work if he actually is a part of the cult

[brittle olive]

Guest doenst work

[shell gull]

That’s how they look in the Books and I prefer it than Crowfaces.

[brittle olive]

He hunts

[brittle olive]

I prefer crowfaces

I think the other design could work if the mask was difficult

Different*

Like maybe make it more sharp

And change the eye hole where they see

And remove the eyebrows too cuz i think it makes it look goofy

[shell gull]

Gtg

[brittle olive]

Aight

Btw forest protectors came before teh guest right?

[eager island]

wdym came before

[brittle olive]

Came before the guest

Like was made before

[eager island]

probably at the same time

Because Bad Blood and HGP were developed at the same time

[brittle olive]

Makes sense

[woeful dagger]

???

[safe charm]

I sent the Wrong video

[woeful dagger]

Oh okay

[woeful dagger]

Also is no one gonna talk about Signed's Backpack having a radio or something lol.

[dry patio]

To talk with other vandals i.e covered coned

[blazing kiln]

The animated series is not canon or it is canon?

[fickle garden]

Yes.

[brittle olive]

Is

Everything is canon

[cedar forum]

Oh ok

[blazing kiln]

I have a theory that the movie is going to probably show to us the story continuation of Hello Neighbor 2 because i dont see any other way to tell the story

[brittle olive]

Nah lol

HN movie is about HN1

We'll probably never know what was supposed to happen after the cliffhanger

[blazing kiln]

No, if they could be a second movie

[brittle olive]

That still doesn't change what i said

[blazing kiln]

Well, its just a theory

[brittle olive]

A GAME THEORY!

[ripe berry]

thanks for watching

[pine moon]

is the error world canon?

[brittle olive]

Error world is canon to HN1

But not to the actual canon lore

Think of it as a side story

That is canon in it's own universe

[pine moon]

oh ok

thx

[willow depot]

For them to make a second one the first one should be real successful

I hope they'll take on an actual horror direction

Besides even if they do make a HN2 movie

Uuuhhhhh

It's probably gonna be

Super stylized/nothing like the game

Because the game sucked.

[dry patio]

What is the lore behind iris

[brittle olive]

We don't know bruh

She has no story yet probably

[willow depot]

ok here's my prediction

If tinyBuild will have their way with HN3 Iris ||won't show up ingame as a character but you'll be able to find a newspaper in a cemetry about how she went missing as a child while playing tag with her brother who is referred to as "J" before the newspaper cuts off||

[dry patio]

Mmmm what does this remind me of

||hn2||

[velvet ginkgo]

I doubt Iris will be Beatrix. For starters, she has blue not red hair. She has purple skin and Beatrix doesn't. At least that's what I think your referring too. Because Beatrix had the same thing happen.

[willow depot]

p.s it's satire

[velvet ginkgo]

Dang. Should have made that clear first.

I have ADHD and sometimes I belive things random people tell me without them actually proving it.

[willow depot]

ah

my bad

but hey you know how it is in this series, who knows

[velvet ginkgo]

Indeed.

[crude dew]

well, Alex did mention it, and Nikita does take it as part of the game very much
I'd say yes, but not the same canon, as the main game story

[crude dew]

that is not ADHD though, that is the 98% of humanity, because people are LAZY to fact check and it is easier to believe things. especially bad things about people that one already dislikes.
I have multiple irl friends with ADHD before anyone jumps at my throat.

[glacial whale]

The neighbor collects mounds of dust for his house to keep it insulated from the mart invasion

[woeful orchid]

Would be weird if Theodore knew that he was in the game, while still having a family and fighting with the cult.

[crude dew]

No

[willow depot]

you know what IS the point of error world

like you delete the ai and all but like

you don't really achieve anything on the grand scale of things

neither does error world really "fit" with the rest of the "canon" media so to speak

[hearty sonnet]

Who is iris yall

[brittle olive]

HN3 character

[crude dew]

it's not that
it's the end of a process that goes through the alphas and the betas and brings them together
the ONLY story which stayed consistent during development, in fact

[willow depot]

the ONLY story which stayed consistent during development, in fact

hilarious

[silver vine]

what is going on in HN3

[willow depot]

how would we know if the game is nowhere near the state of development where it gets a proper story written for it

[crude dew]

rather sad
they threw so many good ideas to the bin

[willow depot]

what is the faust plot even about aside from "oo player fell into coma" because sometimes I see people mention that there are more undertones to the whole thing yet I never witness folks to really elaborate on that

[tribal talon]

Agreed

[little lodge]

Basically, the neighbour making a deal with the devil or whatever, I don't think it's the case as I have my own interpretation of pre alpha/alpha 1 lore, in which I've literally looked into EVERYTHING to put together the original story, but anyway, the main idea is that the neighbour made a deal with the devil and caused us to crash into the power line and is gatekeeping heaven (the basement) from us

[shell gull]

Because Error World is an easter egg, not something part of HN1s Lore so it isn’t canon.

Yes all HN Media is canon but that’s talking about the actual things that were possibly canon about the Media apart of their stories, for example RB having a different layout across all media isn’t something you have to take account for because RBs layout has little purpose in the Lore since it’s constantly changing.

[willow depot]

I'd like to hear your interpretation though

[little lodge]

I’m working on a google doc about it and maybe even a video

[willow depot]

please ping me whenever you're finished with one of them

[next moat]

Who is iris?

[dry patio]

A new character originally made for rbo later hn3 as of yet we have no clue about her story

[eager island]

a female character who was initially planned as a playable character in rbo, and later became an npc in hn3

[next moat]

Oh okay

[wintry cedar]

she looks like those corprate cartoony figures

[brittle olive]

You're right

[nimble jetty]

She is so slay

[next moat]

Okay interesting 🤔

[crude dew]

I'm literally making a video about the storyline though
I'm just very sick, so I have to keep a break

[willow depot]

Ahh, I see, will be waiting for that

Get better soon though!

[frail loom]

hi

[frail loom]

bros watches too much matpat

[brittle olive]

No i don't

[frail loom]

ok cry

[willow depot]

He wasn't even the one who initially made the game theory reference

[frail loom]

ok killjoy

[willow depot]

You're the killjoy here though

[glacial whale]

Ok pal

[brittle olive]

What is bro talking about 💀

[brittle olive]

Fr

"ok killjoy 🤓☝️"

[glacial whale]

Ok loaf

[brittle olive]

Ok Edible

[pale urchin]

The more I look at hn2 videos, the more I realized on how much effort the devs put into making small animations in the game

Oh wait, wrong chat

[crude dew]

so in the end of the day, Otto and Goose being neighbor classes [aka kid enemies] in SN, was all because Otto collaborates with the cult in the AS and they are scared of Goose too? that was it?

I wish they rather cared about Smith and Quentin AT LEAST A TINY BIT and didn't just end the story before we finally got to know info about their relationship 🥹

[glacial whale]

I figured they added him cause they needed a neighbor class since they were adding Quentin and decided oh well he’s got a gun so

[willow depot]

Ironically enough the "Quentin knows Smith" info came FROM SN.

The fact that they just stopped there especially with how any on-screen "knowing" Quentin had of Smith got retconned is... At the very least bizarre

SN is like, a gold mine, come on.

Maybe not exactly gameplay-wise sometimes but lore-wise? Ho-ho-ho, boy, the opportunities are endless

Come onn, events were FUN back in the day, especially with how they ranged from "find a prototype build/game teaser" to "Go to space."

Whenever they had stuff in the story that they couldn't fit in or scrapped could get recycled for a new SN event, heck and it'd be super fun too, no?

Cough cough, explorable Mayak, cough cough, Smith event for map 5

Yeah yeah, I know that I'm just straight up day-dreaming here, that game developing and multi-tasking isn't as easy, blah-blah-blah, yada-yada, but it sounds good on paper

[crude dew]

yeah, that's what I meant...every time they'd finally reveal their relationship, the game in question gets abandoned

||they are secret husbands 🤫 🤭 || hihihi

Smith event is cool, they took the 50% of it, but it's cool
in free camera mode, you can go near him, after you died

[blazing kiln]

Yeah it was me

[blazing kiln]

But i didnt know what he was going to say

[blazing kiln]

I said this and he reply: A GAME THEORY!

Whatever, just focus on the lore discussion

I dont want any purge

[brittle olive]

What

[shell gull]

What’s going on in here?

[brittle olive]

No idea

[blazing kiln]

I check the chat

[blazing kiln]

Someone said you watch too much game theory

[brittle olive]

Ok

Só what?

Idc

[blazing kiln]

Yes i know

[blazing kiln]

Bro loves to be bullied

[brittle olive]

???

What are you even talking about atp bruh 💀

[reef orbit]

I think you love to be bullied
Albat said it so it must be true

[tribal talon]

Could you guys stop

And leave loafKat alone?

[eager island]

very very lore discussion

loafKat lore 😈

[brittle olive]

Hmmm bullying

So tasty

[brittle olive]

Jacob likes to bully me in HN3:(

Oh btw i have a hawk too as a pet

[reef orbit]

I ain't do nun to loafkat I was making fun of albat

[manic dirge]

Also my ski buddy is in the bathroom

[blazing kiln]

YES

[marsh idol]

what the heck is even going on

what lore did i miss in hello neighbor

is this sum new added lore

[fickle garden]

Remember in Hello Neighbor: The Last Neighbor when the Neighbor went super saiyan?

[brittle olive]

Yes, you missed the loafKat lore

[reef orbit]

what's loafKat

[eager island]

he is a artificial intelligence powered by a neural network

[brittle olive]

The creepy AI driven NPC from HN3

[tame herald]

anyone knows how i can play versoin 1,16 in hn 1 ?

i wanna speedrun it in that version

[sly rock]

yep

[stark timber]

well since you apparently know im a kid, i think it makes sense as to why i mightve blocked you
also i didnt block you
and if you wanted to call me kid as an insult, you should have at least replied to me, you didn't have to edit your message, otherwise i probably wouldve seen it earlier

[shell gull]

Depend when HN3 takes place, if it’s after everything than everyone in HN2 would be likely old or dead.

Not not really, Beatrix is most likely dead in HN2, and MITH/M.J. is dead.

Also Lore Dis has been really dead lately?

[willow depot]

1)Retcons!!!
2)MITH isn't M.J., stop
3)That message is so ancient how come you actually replied to it

[willow depot]

yeah

eventually you just discuss everything that there can ever be

[shell gull]

1. Yeah the final product of Beatrix’s story was her being missing and never found.

2. MITH is Missing Journalist we’ve known this for more than a year now, can’t keep denying it at this point (It’s almost as bad as the people denying Otto as a cultist when it was so obvious)

3. I replied because this is Lore Dis I always stay up on this chat for corrections and discussing.

[willow depot]

1. Yeahh that's why I'm hoping for retcons
2. MITH isn't MJ because

Different. Proportions.

3. Fair fair

[shell gull]

The different proportions thing was debunked a while ago, because MITHs character model was from the Alphas and just like Beatrix they didn’t bother to remodel him in Game.

[willow depot]

Nuh-uh

because Beatrix's portrait in the newspaper actually has ACCURATE proportions

[shell gull]

https://tenor.com/view/skeleton-falling-gif-27355771

[willow depot]

I don't think it'd be that much of an issue to do the same for MITH

or that they disliked the alpha proportions that much

heck if the alpha model is supposedly

outdated

why put it in the grave

[shell gull]

Beatrix and MITH both didn’t get remodeled.

[shell gull]

To show that they are there and what happened to them even if they were too lazy to change the designs.

[willow depot]

and yet Beatrix got the right proportions while MITH is a special case because...?

[shell gull]

The Guest was the only one to get redesigned because people actually wanted him in the game most.

[willow depot]

"too lazy to change the designs" then why would they change it in the FIRST PLACE

unless, it's almost like, this character that has an attire nothing like the alleged model counterpart, isn't actually the secret identity for the latter!

[shell gull]

Wdym? Beatrix is a child in the photo?

And also they aren’t the right proportions

[willow depot]

her nose and ears are the right proportions

her eye patch is there

turns out they don't have an issue with being consistent

[shell gull]

Her face shape just like M.J. And MITH is vastly different, Beatrix in HG has a long skinny face while in the Photo for HN2 it’s small and stubby, we’ve know this for almost a year btw…

This feels like the “Otto isn’t a cultist” all over again.

I’m not arguing anymore because this isn’t going anywhere.

[willow depot]

that face is still pretty oval-ish, and you can still tell that this is meant to be Beatrix because she has all of her key design elements

MJ? Oh uhmm uhm, coat!! Uhmm BALD PERSON, same character guys

anything else aside from that? Oh, presumed dead like every other Banner employee

it's just botherful, why is anyone considering this as confirmed when they couldn't even give him a TURTLENECK, let alone a hat or glasses

but nevertheless yeah let's stop it here

fun fact MJ's coat isn't even the right color if you were to compare the black and white newspaper to a filtered, black and white MITH model

[eager island]

mith is a missing journalist
not the missing journalist

[shell gull]

“You can see they are supposed to be the same character”

MITHs whole character is to be incognito…obviously they aren’t going to be the same just by looking at them. M.J. Was investigating The Cult, he used the MITH design as a way to not be caught, but obviously we know that didn’t work out, it’s even confirmed in SN that he’s M.J. When it sates “The journalist knows the owner of the hat” the only person in HN2 other than the Townspleople that obviously aren’t MITH is M.J. The person he was replacing. Let’s not forget that the MITH badge quote literally states that he is an Investigative Journalist the only ones we know in HN are Quentin and M.J. so SN already confirms he’s MITH, the Archives also confirm it, MITH is wearing the same shirt that M.J. Wears under his coat as well. Just because the proportions are a little off doesn’t mean he isn’t M.J.

[shell gull]

(This was made by @ripe berry a while back)

[shell gull]

The only two Investigative Journalist are Quentin and M.J. It would be really dumb for M.J. To be missing and then also for some reason make MITH also an extra missing journalist, when they were both after The Cult and both happen to have been caught by The Cult, at that point it’s just straight delusional to deny they are the same person when even the Games state they are.

Man this really feels dumber than the Otto delusion.

[eager island]

who said that Mith was captured by the cult?

[willow depot]

SN MITH's appearance predates MJ's conceptualization, no he doesn't wear the same shirt, that's not a sweater that MJ is wearing, that's a t-shirt, not a sweater and it's ALSO THE WRONG COLOR TOO. The fact that Quentin knows MITH could easily refer to the ending reel found in MITH's car

and the best of all, MITH was a seperate addition to HN2 that the fans had to BEG for as opposed to MJ that was pre-release content

[eager island]

he knows too much, he cant trust anyone

[willow depot]

because MJ was also captured by the cult and MITH is totally MJ

💯

[eager island]

he was deliberately lost, not kidnapped

[willow depot]

Exactly. MITH is just too anti-social to be friends with anyone

especially Otto, who aside from the cult thing is known to vandalize animal corpses for a living

fun fact the MJ missing poster isn't even in the final game iirc

as opposed to just

being there in the demo

[shell gull]

HN2 Pictures confirm it when it shows him moments before getting caught, we see him buried in The Church which is Cult Grounds and abandoned, he was buried there by The Cult, only other person could’ve been Ted but Ted couldn’t have been there after the place got taken over by Cultist.

[shell gull]

Doesn’t mean he doesn’t exist in the Lore when the Archives are there.

[shell gull]

MITH is anti-social 💀

[willow depot]

he literally hides

from everybody

what a social and friendly individual indeed

I sure hope he won't try to detain me and put me into his car if I try to approach him

[versed yacht]

isn't that because that's just his job (spying on people)

[shell gull]

Brother he couldn’t trust anyone because he was investigating The Cult…that’s why he has a disguise, that’s why he can’t trust anyone because he knows half the Town is in on The Cult.

[shell gull]

That was HG.

His lore was changed.

[versed yacht]

well kinda

SN

[willow depot]

except for the fact that no it wasn't

[versed yacht]

if that's still relevant

[shell gull]

No SN confirms him as a Investiagte Journalist they changed it before HN2 released.

[versed yacht]

hang on im confused now

[shell gull]

Hm I wonder why they would change a Characters Lore description…possibly to better align with the actual Character he is…

[willow depot]

because as I just said, tinyBuild had to literally ask the community what they wanted for HN2

[willow depot]

THE SN EVENT. PREDATES. MJ'S CONCEPTUALIZATION.

[shell gull]

That was to get info none of that actually happened.

[versed yacht]

i mean yeah

[shell gull]

MJ existed pre-beta…

[versed yacht]

i'm not denying mj is mith because like he very obviously is

i'm just saying stuff like sn shows him investigating people like peterson by spying on them

[shell gull]

At least someone isn’t delusional.

[willow depot]

MITH existed since HG alphas...

[shell gull]

That’s true, but we never see those characters + just like Beatrix and everyone else in HN2 everyone Lore was vastly changed.

Everyone in HN2 except Ted, Quentin and MITH/M.J. are Cultists.

[willow depot]

MJ's purpose is literally to disappear so Quentin gets a position

[versed yacht]

wasn't it implied in hg he worked with the cops (his car was called like cop car)

[willow depot]

yes also the

[shell gull]

But his Lore like I said is vastly different.

[willow depot]

cops arrival teaser I think

unless he dips right after they exit the car

[shell gull]

Beatrix isn’t a Security Guard in HN2, she’s a literal missing child in the FG.

[shell gull]

“The Cop arrival teaser” was for “Nog-Simming” a head canon made for fun by one of the Community Managers during that time.

[willow depot]

that doesn't mean that MITH is the same casee

[eager island]

and most likely the reason why quentin and his family left raven brooks

[shell gull]

Mhm.

[eager island]

its not canon

[shell gull]

That’s what I was saying there.

[willow depot]

MITH is literally an afterthought

[willow depot]

oh okay

[shell gull]

You can’t use that as evidence because it isn’t.

[eager island]

i mean nog simming was never canon

[shell gull]

Mhm.

Just to point out this thing with MITH and M.J. Is the same level as when people denied Otto being a Cultists, I feel the exact same as I did then with this discussion.

[willow depot]

is there anything pointing to that Gerda is a cultist aside from having a museum key

that's not to say I don't think she's a cultist

I'd prefer she would be since otherwise that'd make her the only non-cultist in town which would mess with my OCD a lot

[versed yacht]

nog simming was never canon because it was essentially a fan story (and was just outright confirmed non canon by ari who was writing it)
and police arrive isn't canon because it was for an older story that's no longer canon

[versed yacht]

the AS

[eager island]

literally a cultist is driving her bakery truck

[versed yacht]

she's there when franklin dies

[willow depot]

right right

[versed yacht]

and is implied to be a cultist via the bakery trucks

[shell gull]

“Just because Otto has a Cult Key in his yard and is affiliated with them doesn’t mean he’s a Cultist”

“Just because M.J. Is a missing journalist just like MITH and both are missing relatively the same time doesn’t mean their the same person”

[willow depot]

Norman is a missing journalist who is also missing at the same time both M.J. and MITH are missing since he was never recovered

[eager island]

otto is not a cultist, he is most likely someone used by the cult like Maritza

[versed yacht]

otto is def a pawn for the cult

[willow depot]

He also has that "watching from a distance" type of thing, kinda, so you're welcome

[versed yacht]

and not like, full on cultist

[eager island]

norman literally disappeared 3-4 years before them

wasnt puzzle master takes place in 92

[willow depot]

I'm poking fun but yeah lol

also

[versed yacht]

norman disappeared YEARS before

[shell gull]

-Was there during the Mayak Accident in AS

-Cultist comes out of a Bakery Van

-She was most likely manipulated by a Cultist during what happened to her in the Halloween Kids accident.

[versed yacht]

like 30+

[willow depot]

Gordon Cleave worked at the banner and wore a coat

he's MITH guys

[eager island]

yeah but his newest disappear

[versed yacht]

ok fair yeah

was gonna say

[willow depot]

a Banner employee goes missing every week

[versed yacht]

he's still technically widely considered missing

[willow depot]

they should bring back the "Justice for X" ceremonies

[eager island]

someone please reopen Raven Brooks Mirror

instead of banner

it will provide job security to its employees

[willow depot]

more angry townsfolk doing arson

[willow depot]

Please

[shell gull]

Norman is from the Books and isn’t connected at all with HN2 FG or AS, and btw when HN2 was connected to Books and RD Norman is ACTUALLY Quentin, because of the whole Time Loop thing.

[versed yacht]

my theory currently is that before hn2 at some point the banner is shut down, which is why it's basically abandoned by hn2

basically leaving quentin as the sole employee

[eager island]

time loop never confirmed

[willow depot]

Norman is likely just a scrapped Quentin all jokes aside

yeah like Ike

[eager island]

and i remember nikita said that he never did anything with time

[shell gull]

Nikita kinda confirmed it when he said that the Game would take place during different times iirc.

[willow depot]

😭 el oh el Quentin the sole media representive

[eager island]

ike

[willow depot]

honestly things like Ike or Norman they shouldn't bother to "explain"

yeah they were arguably better than FG Quentin but like

at this point

[eager island]

ike was somewhat replaced by Franklin in AS

[willow depot]

you just leave good enough alone

[willow depot]

true

well, somewhat

[shell gull]

He basically is Ike just blood related in AS.

[willow depot]

kinda

[shell gull]

Also Ike’s death in the Books was way more gruesome.

[eager island]

and i NEVER think franklin is guest

[shell gull]

Currently there isn’t a lot to back that for AS.

We haven’t seen The Guest in AS yet.

[eager island]

we saw

in a way

[shell gull]

With Alex making it distinct Crowfaces and The Guest are different.

[eager island]

yea yea ik

[shell gull]

God I hate unclear responses.

Alex just tell us

[versed yacht]

Ike Quentin Cornelius Gershowitz is a former security guard for the Golden Apple Corporation found dead in the Golden Apple Factory's peppermint vat

Quentin is a journalist investigating Raven Brooks

Norman Darby is a missing journalist who was investigating Raven Brooks, he's "missing" but is really just hiding

MiTH/MJ is a missing/potentially dead(?) Journalist who is investigating Raven Brooks and is also hiding in the shadows

This isn't even covering their physical appearances

[shell gull]

Since HN2 was supposed to align with AS and what we have of Patch 9 and HN2 Lore we know The Guest is most likely The Cult Leader.

[willow depot]

that's to say

there's just gonna be a lot of people doing this thing in Raven Brooks

and it doesn't necessarily have to be some chump who has taxidermists for friends

[eager island]

jay roth is also a investigative journalist

for rbb

[willow depot]

was it stated that he's literally an investigative journalist

or that he just works at the banner

[eager island]

plus miguel

[versed yacht]

i mean i wouldn't find it odd if almost all these characters are in some way involved with the cult and either go missing or are killed off while also being descriptively similar (at least Ike Quentin and Norman)

[willow depot]

You heard Jay Roth = Pre-Alpha Man, prepare for Jay Roth = MITH

[versed yacht]

Jay and Miguel don't count as they're just banner employees who aren't really involved with the cult

[shell gull]

Wish the Quentin/Darby thing ended up fully happening the parallel would’ve been crazy, especially when you realise that meant Quentin was trying to change the Past so it would end up better but would never end up working.

[eager island]

i heard a theory early on in HN2 that Jay Roth would be the protagonist

and no one cared about that theory

[versed yacht]

ngl I still think it's the case, because the similarities are too 1:1 for them to just ignore that entirely