lore-discussion

[willow depot]

https://tenor.com/view/hello-guest-hello-neighbor-hello-neighbor-smith-man-in-the-hat-hello-neighbor2-gif-20969856

like I know it's just spy guy cliche but

[snow mauve]

You see that would be stupid because

One of the cops

Is part of the evil cult

[old glacier]

In showcase he was with Leslie and Nielsen

[snow mauve]

Not anymore now

[willow depot]

oh crap

still though

[snow mauve]

Nope

nay nah

Leslie (confirmed) and likely Keith are definitely cutlists

[willow depot]

hold on this apple is heck weird let me throw it out

[dry patio]

Mith would never join cult (i hope)

[old glacier]

I keep on forgetting his name Is Keith

[snow mauve]

I don't think so

Because as far as we know

He has the same camera as Quentin's

[old glacier]

He died

[snow mauve]

Which he was also a journalist in town

[old glacier]

He got too close,,

[willow depot]

Nah

[snow mauve]

Not confirmed yet bub

He was removed in patch 9 hotfix 4

[willow depot]

I like to think Mith just

[dry patio]

Maybe mith is a parallel to quentin

[snow mauve]

So they're definitely planning on him with something else

[willow depot]

hangs out in that coffin

[old glacier]

Whattt

[snow mauve]

The grave is sealed

And he is not in there anymore

[willow depot]

okay guys you gotta

you gotta hear me out on this one hold on

[snow mauve]

So he's definitely gonna be used at some point

Unless that's changed

[dry patio]

What is bro cooking?

[old glacier]

This game

[snow mauve]

Is peak

[snow mauve]

Also his last name is Newsom

So there's that

Not Nielsen

[old glacier]

For me he is Nielsen forever

[snow mauve]

I will not tolerate this crap

[dry patio]

Neilson sounds way better

[snow mauve]

Nah

[old glacier]

(i have nog simming ingraved into my head)

[snow mauve]

Anyways

[willow depot]

chat hear me out

both wear blue, both end up in coffins, both spy on Peterson

💯

[snow mauve]

Man in hats

[snow mauve]

I'm going to explode right now

[old glacier]

Here's my theory He reincarnated into the mill

[snow mauve]

Mill rumbleeee

It's rumbling

[willow depot]

Honestly it's imaginable that after getting into trouble with Ted finding him to meddle with his crap he'd probably dive into secrecy which he to a degree could've become obsessed with

oh yeah I'm adding this into the headcanons book

[willow depot]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1119325592077217954/1281197723688632353/caption.gif

[dry patio]

Pre alpha man????🤯

[willow depot]

yessir

[snow mauve]

Everything is canon folks 👍

[old glacier]

Is my headcanon canon

[willow depot]

except reset day

[snow mauve]

NO

[willow depot]

we hate reset day

[snow mauve]

WRONG

sure it sucks

But we'll just have to stick with it

Just the way it is

[willow depot]

dude the fact it takes place in 2020s is INSANE bro Nicky is moved into town for like FIVE YEARS

[dry patio]

Isakai:how i died and got reincarnated as the guest in another world in a city with a cult

[old glacier]

I have all hn books and i read all of them but reset day man
I just can not read It for sum reason

[snow mauve]

Yeah it's pretty stupid

You have like timeloops

Guest using social media which is funny

[old glacier]

That's in hello engineer too

[snow mauve]

And ummm

Enzo went missing

[willow depot]

imagine his face after he fully moves back in and like NOTHING changed while he was gone Ted is still alive and kicking Guest is still terorrizing people

[snow mauve]

Except the kids somehow escaped

In the sandbox part

[snow mauve]

By building a rocket ship..

[willow depot]

and flying into space

[snow mauve]

Then respawn

[old glacier]

They're going on a trip on their favourite Rocket ship

[willow depot]

they bugged two beartraps and got out of the map

[snow mauve]

Man

I love hello neighbor

[willow depot]

Man me too man

[ripe berry]

Unbiased HN Timeline Guide (Games Only)

woops

fixed smth

Also attempted to write a quick spoiler-free description of each thing in the timeline

and it's funny how most of the timeline is pretty straight-forward
then Hello Engineer and the HN2 DLCs just exist in a a unknown point in time between HN1 Act 1 and HN1 Act 2
(although it's implied the DLCs occur closer to Act 2 in the timeline then Act 1, they can technically occur anywhere in-between)

and the RBBArchives and the HNHS Launch Trailer are bonus non-game thing that is technically canon

[unkempt sleet]

Now this this is an awesome timeline

[ripe berry]

and no one can agree on where HE is relative to SN, only that it's after HN1 Act 1 and before HNVR
and I don't think too much changes based off of which comes first

AS is the most straight forward as the episodes air in chronological order

and the books:

GN1, Book 4, Book 5, Book 6, Book 1, Book 2, Book 3, GN2, Guidebook(?), Book 7

but the way I view it
the games tell a story that you'll only need the games to understand (I say will since HN2 is unfinished)

Books tell a story

and AS will tell a story

how these three stories coexist in one timeline in unclear, but they do

like some details might be needed from the other stories to fill in gaps
but the stories should at least be able to function on their own

[strange lance]

HE is obviously after SN I don't get why this is a debate. SN teases the rocket and space and how the squad wants to go on a rocket someday. HE ends with them finally going on a rocket and escaping the sandbox and the credits tease HNVR

its really not that hard to place I don't get why people are so confused

rocket stuff aside, if HE teases hnvr that means SN has to be before both either way like

[ripe berry]

or
HNVR was teased because during HE's Development they thought HNVR was the next game to release, and it means nothing with the timeline

[strange lance]

HE came out after hnvr bro

[ripe berry]

by only a few months

and remember it was in Early Access in 2022

[ripe berry]

tinyBuild Riga thought they'd beat Steel Wool to releasing a HN Game

so in the Credits they put a subtle nod to what they thought would be the next game to release

not knowing Steel Wool was gonna be able to get their game out before Hello Engineer was out

[strange lance]

I think I'd rather go with the more logical route in that its a tease for the next game in the timeline like SN did because that actually makes sense

SN teases HE, HE teases hnvr, hnvr teases hn2

its really really not that complicated

[ripe berry]

like Sonic CD has a nod to Sonic 2 in it's Debug Menu
but almost no one at Sega at the time thought Sonic CD was set before Sonic 2
it was because Sega initially thought Sonic CD would release before Sonic 2...
which uh...
wasn't true at all...

[strange lance]

ok but this isn't sonic CD

[ripe berry]

I know, I'm just using it as a example of this kind of thing

[strange lance]

and this isn't in a debug menu either its in the credits after the ending of the game

[ripe berry]

again

just using it as a example

and also
SN definitely at the time wasn't intending to tease HE

HE had basically just begun re-working it's plot at that point in time

I don't think they had the Rocket thing thought out already in HE when they added the event to SN

sure it retroactively becomes a reference to HE
but at the time there was no intention for the two to be linked

(and also putting HE after SN makes the Rescue Squad more inconsistent then they already seemed to be if you combined the Books and Games)

Book 2 - Believes Nicky
Book 3 - Stops believing Nicky
SN - Nicky's Kidnapped so they believe Nicky again
HE - "you know what, forget Nicky, let's go win a inventor's contest or smth"
HNVR - Ok let's go save Nicky

at least with HE coming first they don't jump from wanting to save him to not to wanting to save/believe him to not again and again and again

[strange lance]

first off you're dumbing things down a lot. Also in SN they're not planning to save nicky at all, the "true ending" is the rocket ending and then they go eat dinner, all they did was play pretend they did not care for nicky even then. HE follows up on this with them still not caring up until the end when they decide they need to save him probably after seeing what ted is capable of.

[ripe berry]

wasn't it established the plot of SN is planning to save someone from Ted's Basement back when the game first dropped?

[strange lance]

Also after the first HE trailer (the one with the weird battle arena) the 2nd one released with the actual proper park. the same year the 2nd trailer released SN released the update that added trophies including the rocket one showing how they want to fly a real one one day. And thanks to HEs files we know that the rocket ending was always planned

[strange lance]

they're not gonna advertise the game as "group of kids play pretend instead of saving their friend" thats why its hidden in a event lmao

[ripe berry]

ok... fair enough...
although it feels like tinyBuild themselves don't know where the game is in the timeline

SN implied before with the Rocket thing but then they added Quentin which implies SN is only a day or two before HNVR (not enough time for HE to happen)

and then with AS they just decided to place their version of HE after HN2 in their adaptation

despite the fact that makes even less sense then either placement where it's between HN1 Act 1 and HNVR

[strange lance]

I'm sorry but I refuse to take Quentin into the equation with SN. Not only is it really weird it doesn't make any sense

[unkempt sleet]

which makes more sense as a better placement

[strange lance]

Also the trailer for quentin in SN implies SN is a dream like

[unkempt sleet]

🤧

[ripe berry]

sorry, the SN devs confirmed Quentin being in-game is not lore-contraidctory

[strange lance]

ok so, before quentin arrives to town and before any of the kids escape the basment, Quentin magically manifests into the town to play pretend with the rescue squad got it

and then he disappears

so hn2 can happen

got it

I obviously don't think that btw

[ripe berry]

#secret-neighbor message
#secret-neighbor message
Or well
Quentin wasn't in the Game originally bc it was lore-contradictory
then tinyCrow asked about why Quentin's being added when that occured
then the SN Devs said something changed
TinyCrow then asks if they made SN Non-Canon, to which the Devs respond "All according to the Canon", implying Quentin being in SN doesn't break canon

[strange lance]

But based on what Ozvard said, the trailer, and how the AS (cause the lore change was 100% the AS) shows Quentin interacting with the squad, I'm 99% sure he literally is just dreaming

because he physically cannot be in raven brooks before hn2. Unless you really wanna say he goes to town just for SN, leaves, waits a month, and then comes back

or if you wanna say SN takes place during hn2

which also cannot happen

so I'm going with dream

thats the only way for me

[ripe berry]

the HN2 DLCs imply Quentin has already been in town for a day or two before the events of HN2

[strange lance]

SN is 2 months before hn2 however

so that cannot work

unless again you wanna say the stuff I said above happened

which would be really stupid!

[ripe berry]

again I think tinyBuild just doesn't know where to place HE in the timeline

[strange lance]

I'm not even talking about HE anymore I got wrapped up in Quentin in SN

[ripe berry]

it's not that SN is two months before HN2
it's that HE is in two timeline spots at once, despite both being contradictory to SN

one contradicts Quentin's appearance in SN

the other contradicts the Rocket Event Trophy Description

[strange lance]

like they made a brand new animation of him falling asleep in the banner after he arrived to town and started working and then appearing in SN. He never actually did SN with the kids lol

what we SHOULD be asking is when does he fall asleep

this is probably why otto is there

its from Quentin

[ripe berry]

and also thinking about it
this doesn't imply anything about them wanting to fly a rocket

it implies they want to go to the Moon and also is about the Golden Apple Young Inventor's Club, not the current one in HE

[strange lance]

it does not say young inventors club

[ripe berry]

unless they're the same group or decided to go by a near identical name, which I doubt

[ripe berry]

it still says Golden Apple
and Inventor's Club isn't capitalized despite that supposedly being the name of the Club in HE

[strange lance]

dude who cares about if a word is capitalized

[ripe berry]

by that logic why should we care if they don't use the word Young in that sentence when they're already called the Golden Apple Inventor's Club

[strange lance]

theres a difference between a word being capitalized and a entire word being removed that defines a part of the club. Also it doesn't even make sense being called golden apple inventors club cause the park is closed by SN. I think Holo just reused the name

[ripe berry]

and if they made SN a Dream from Quentin
then SN is during/after HN2, not before HE, making the whole debate pointless

[strange lance]

I mean I said it was a dream from the start lol

it makes the most sense

and explains logically how hes "in" SN

its a very smart move

explains otto as well

the amount of hurdles you have to fail to jump to make it so Quentin is actually physically with the kids is huge

[ripe berry]

yeah
if you believe Quentin's physically there you have to say HE is before SN

otherwise you can say SN is during HN2 and then basically ignore it

(and now HE has no timeline debates because there's nothing else in-between HN1 Act 1 and HNVR)

[strange lance]

SN is basically a fnaf 4 situation now. The actual "events" of SN (sitting in backyard playing pretend) happen first, and then the "dream" Quentin has of SN happens later on.

more fnaf x HN connections...my pile grows

[ripe berry]

and I know pretty dang well who's to blame for this mess of SN occuring at two spots at once

(The Guest definitely did it)

only problem is SN Roblox
but it's SN Roblox
I don't think tinyBuild actually made it
they only officially endorsed it

again using Sonic as a example
Sonic Speed Simulator is a roblox game endorsed by Sega
doesn't mean it's canon

[verbal bobcat]

oddest thing about sn is im not sure why exactly it exists, like couldnt they just show us them actually breaking in

[ripe berry]

that's what HNVR is for

originally they weren't intended to actually break in though, only plan to

hence SN's existence

and then Steel Wool decided to add a story of the Rescue Squad actually breaking in after the fact

[ripe berry]

I will say if this is true I'm ok with putting HE "after" SN

because it starts as them actually planning to save Nicky
then devolves into things like Snow Event
before they end things with Rocket Event
showing they somewhat care but not really

they only actually properly care when they see Ted genuinely doing weird shit in HE

and then quentin for some reason dreams about it like months later

[ripe berry]

because
like in AS
they probably don't actually believe Nicky was kidnapped, but that he simply ran away from home

and then since unlike in AS Trinity wasn't there to witness Nicky getting kidnapped there's no one to correct it when they stop genuinely believing Ted kidnapped Nicky

and then HE corrects them by showing them stuff they can't just ignore

not that I personally believe it
but it does make sense if true

(aka this is a agree to disagree moment)

[silver vine]

Yes, I think what the lore change is that it now is that SN now also takes place after act 2

Before SN toom place between acts 1 and 2

I think now it extends to after act 2 as well

Explains the crime scene tapes in map 4

[snow mauve]

the new crow discord?

what the shit

[strange lance]

I think HN is the only franchise where "make up your own story" is ok because this all sounds so stupid when you really think about it

And considering theres like 3 different "timelines" where things are slightly different but are somehow all canon just do whatever you want

Alex was right canon is flexible at this point

[snow mauve]

winner

[strange lance]

No one wins

We are all losers

Fall down

[snow mauve]

man shut up

only i can be THE loser

yall are the different types of losers

[crude dew]

much more than 3 actually
HN is literally the franchise, where fanfics and AU's have the absolute right to exist, since the canon itself does this all the time too.

[willow depot]

tbh I doubt SN has any super-duper lore significance

as in, doubt you can really pinpoint it somewhere

especially with a billion of Ted's house variations on different maps

In the end it's "Neighbor Mafia", soooo

[silver vine]

It sorta is

They've confirmed its entirely canon

[willow depot]

oh

oh well just how much story can one really get out of SN anyway

doubt it's much

[silver vine]

One of the kids is a traitor

That story will be in cartoon

[willow depot]

Guest can shapeshift, sooo, suppose so

[crude dew]

how about all of them betray each other
TLC drama series

kids are kinda paranoid tho
like
not joking.

[muted moon]

he only ever shapeshifted once in a dream

[safe charm]

Im reset day his beak litteraly

Turns into a mustache

[muted moon]

couldnt it be the moustache poking out the sides of the beak?

[safe charm]

Maybe ig

[silver vine]

He can shapeshift into a crow

[safe charm]

you forgot hnvr btw

[safe charm]

Btw imo HE being after hn2 makes more sense imo

He was Trying to experiment in HE with time loop and even time travel(he failed though)

[muted moon]

also, shouldnt gn2 be before hn2? in gn2 ted isnt wanted by the police

and a2 era hn2 looks very post-storm

[safe charm]

Well in old hn2 Ted was still buff

Also everything is canon

So it cant really be before now at least

Because hn2 completely ruins that

But this sorta implies its before imo

(Alex defenitly mixed up gn1 with gn2 in the second image because it was apperantly being writen if not already writen)

Man the continuity makes no sense at all lol

Hn is truly a make up your own continuity atm

[muted moon]

in gn2 ted had the nft proportions

not buff

[safe charm]

In hn2 he doesnt

Though

[muted moon]

yeah

and didnt they say the design change had a reason

[safe charm]

I dont know but Nikita just confirmed everything is canon so

Gn2 and hn2 fg is both Canon

And gn2 being before doesnt fit with hn2 fg

[muted moon]

in hn2 fg ted is wanted

in gn2 ted is not wanted

[safe charm]

He cant be the guest in hn2 fg though

Unless Quentin is hallucinating the whole game

Hnvr ties into hn2 as well

[muted moon]

nonsense

[safe charm]

Even if this is nonsense it has to be tied to hn2 because otherwise not everything is canon

And i dont think nikita would lie About that

[muted moon]

just because everything is canon doesnt mean they both have to be tied to each otehr

h&s definitely isnt tied to he

theyre both canon though

[safe charm]

Well the guest is very contredicing

[muted moon]

the guest contradicts itself every appearance

[safe charm]

Alex Said AS will introduce the concept of the guest

[muted moon]

"introduce"

[safe charm]

So is the AS version the Main guest from now on

Ig so

[muted moon]

idk

[safe charm]

Do you Think the bio is outdated

The one that says hes an old urban legend

And all that

[muted moon]

idk

i dont think figuring out lore is possible atm

everything just contradicts everything else

[crude dew]

not impossible

[old glacier]

Quentin if he was hallucinating the whole game:

[willow depot]

with how many times Quentin is passing out

it's not out of question

although, with how entirety of HN1 was either messy inaccurate memories and nightmares, and how people say that SN is actually just a game of pretend in the backyard, I'd hope at least one game in the series would be more than just a mind illusion

[silver vine]

HN2 is the most realistic game in the series

[crude dew]

are we sure about that

HN - messed up memories
HS - happens, but things are twisted because child pov
HG - probably actually happened
SN - kids are paranoid and think about murdering a man + breaking in (none of the things happen) + hallucinating stuff (someone told me to not use "fantasize" but the translator translated it to this word)
HN2 - journalist passes out in every two seconds
HE - kids hallucinate things
HNVR - ditto
HND - Nicky gets into a hallucination loop
what else am I forgetting

[silver vine]

I don't think HNVR was them hallucinate things

Nicky wasn't going into hallucination loop. He was rediscovering memories

HG never happened

[worn ibex]

What do you mean hello guest never happened?

[safe charm]

Its not canon

[worn ibex]

Oh right, sorry I understood it wrong

[tribal talon]

Petersons Stick Together
The Secrets of Bosco Bay
Bad Blood Ch1-2
H&S Stage 1
Bad Blood RotB (Rest of the Book)
Grave Mistakes
Puzzle Master
Missing Pieces Ch1-15
H&S Stage 2-3
Missing Pieces Ch16-17
H&S Stage 4-5
Missing Pieces RotB
Waking Nightmare
WtRB S1 Ep1-3
WtRB S1 Ep4-6
WtRB S2 & S3 (Hello Engineer)
Secret Neighbor
WtRB Pilot
Buried Secrets Ch1-10
Act 1 (Error World is Alt.)
Buried Secrets RotB
WtRB Pilot Prologue & Ending
Search & Rescue
Act 2
HN2 (Patch 9 sometimes in the game and DLC's after Act 1 Intro)
HN2 Patch 9 Concept Teaser
The Raven Brooks Disaster
Act 3 & Finale
Diaries
Reset Day
RBO

TinyBuild pls don't ban me I just wanna make others happy.

The Remake 😉

Rate it 0-10

[snow mauve]

It's just hello neighbor 2 but old (pre alpha)

[tribal talon]

Really?

Ok

Patch 9 can't be before HN2 because Quentin moved in Raven Brooks in HN2

K it's remaded

Where do I fit the Neighbor's Logbook or what

[tribal talon]

@dreamy needle

Ok

Ok

Ok

Ok

[worn ibex]

I know, I love hello guest and even making a fangame

[snow mauve]

Cool

[ripe berry]

it somewhat makes sense but also doesn;t

ignoring the SAR reference in the credits (I'm kinda in the middle on if we can use it for lore or not)
if HE is after HN2 where's Nicky at?

because the SAR Reference could mean it's before SAR/HNVR

BUT

it could also be bc they thought HE was gonna release before HNVR

also what's the point of placing the Nicky Missing Posters across the map if not to indicate Nicky is actively missing at the time of the game

[ripe berry]

Where Nicky's at technically has a explanation
but it's hard to explain them bothering to include the Missing Posters if not to imply Nicky is missing

since otherwise they have no reason to include Nicky's Missing Posters in a ABANDONED Theme Park

[muted moon]

patch 9 is the last few chapters of act 2

which is after hn2 act 1

(the main game we have so far)

dlcs take place during time jump in intro

[shell gull]

The last few? So basically saying there’s other Levels before those ones (Which I knew but I thought the Forest was after the Catacomb Intro).

[muted moon]

forest ending is called something like LS_Act2Ending

act 2 went something like catacombs > town > forest

[shell gull]

Huh

[ripe berry]

there's leftover data referencing other sections of Patch 9's version of Act 2

from that and the clips of early patch 9 development that were officially shared can give us somewhat of a idea into how Act 2 would've played out

like iirc there's leftover data for sound effects related to the Storm, indicating in some way you'd be able to see/hear the Storm while in the Catacombs

[ripe berry]

there's not much but there's still something

like (empty) soundbank data for every area in Act 2

[muted moon]

theres leftover soundbank stuff for im pretty sure prototype catacombs, act 2 town, and forest

ill have to check the prototype catacombs one again

[muted moon]

yeah, although some soundbanks only have references

like act 2 town

act 2 town and catacombs

its not called prototype catacombs

theres something else called prototype though

[shell gull]

Yeah I find it intriguing.

If that’s the case there’s a lot to factor with the Early Plan for Act 2.

[crude dew]

everything is canon ☝️

[crude dew]

simple logic
he escaped
he went home
his parents called the police
they immediately moved away [to the city] leaving everything behind
this theory explains...well, literally every possible questions

[tribal talon]

Patch 9 and DLC's changed

[spark tulip]

my honest reaction

[dry patio]

PEAK MUSIC!!!!

[loud tartan]

i just wonder if those are gonna be re-used if they scrap the catacombs

[spark tulip]

it's already used

[loud tartan]

oh is it the church undergrounds area

[spark tulip]

yes

[loud tartan]

i never payed attention to the ambience

i literally couldn't hear it was another music

[ripe berry]

I mentioned one other point

they would have no reason to include the Nicky Missing Posters unless it's to indicate he's still missing

after all

it's a ABANDONED Amusement Park

you can come up with a lore reason for the Missing Posters being there still but you can't come up with why tinyBuild would have put them in the abandoned amusment park in the first place if not to indicate that Nicky is missing

after all in HN2 only place you can find Nicky's Missing Posters is the Raven Brooks Banner
and HN2 is like
at most a few days after HNVR

Nicky isn't missing? - No Missing Posters to be found
Nicky is missing? - logically, there should be Missing Posters

[ripe berry]

granted I don't own HE and barely have played the Demo so if all the Nicky Missing Posters are in Ted's Hideouts or smth then this point's no longer valid

[unkempt sleet]

theres posters on the GAAP entrance

[ripe berry]

so the point of using the Missing Posters as proof HE isn't after HNVR is in-fact valid

[strange lance]

The missing posters are also in teds secret rooms throughout the park

Splayed out on the tables, floor, and walls

[ripe berry]

I knew that
I didn't remember if they were anywhere OTHER then Ted's Secret Rooms

[strange lance]

Its been a bit since I've played HE, I'll explore levels and see if theres any others

[ripe berry]

(Mr. Apple is correct in that there's some Nicky Missing Posters on the GAAP Entrance in Level 1)

[ripe berry]

chat
thoughts on RBO's Year not mattering

Question Nikita is responding to: well i think its a pretty small question but i understand if you'd rather not answer but is there a specific year rbo takes place in?

[shell gull]

He says year doesn’t matter which I guess is basically saying the Game could take place anywhere, but him saying he can’t explain it yet is weird, I still think it’s obvious it takes place after HN2 Act 1.

[stable junco]

It could be something similar to HE

[ripe berry]

this is the second time Nikita has implied smth about this (assuming the Ageless thing relates to the yearless thing) #old-rbo-discussion message

[ripe berry]

I mean

in a franchise with time loops Years and Ages easily become irrelevant

it's just: "where does this entry go relative to these entries"

[dry patio]

I dont really care because they gonna tell time using the seasons (i.e spring,summer,winter,fall etc)

[shell gull]

True, if it’s a Time Loop matter then at that Point makes sense why a Year doesn’t matter.

[ripe berry]

Nikita has however repeatedly given the Season the game occurs in, being (specifically Early) Spring
#old-rbo-discussion message
#old-rbo-discussion message
#old-rbo-discussion message
#old-rbo-discussion message

[ripe berry]

and also explains why characters are considered Ageless

[shell gull]

True.

[ripe berry]

(only screenshotting images from the #basement since people can get banned from that channel but still be in the server)

[ripe berry]

they technically have 2 different ages

and if your age can change on a whim does it really matter what your age is?

[shell gull]

Then again even if it’s a Time Loop it could still be possible the Time Loop takes place after a Key Event to know when it starts.

[ripe berry]

(I mean legally yes it does)

[ripe berry]

yeah

a time loop has a defined starting point usually but no real defined end point

[ripe berry]

but still
can't really define a character with a specific age if they're in a time loop

sure
they are likely a certain age inside of the loop

but their overall age has become irrelevant

[shell gull]

Mhm

[ripe berry]

characters still have to have a age inside the time loop
but you can't reliably keep track of the age since the end point of the time loop can randomly change based off what happens

and also Reset Day shows Time Loops might not always affect the entire planet

so while in the real world it's 2017
it might only be March 1997 for Raven Brooks

so RBO can't be labelled with a year because it can loop infinitely

all the while the rest of the world moves onwards in the timeline

all that matters now is when it occurs relative to other events

It's after HN2 but before HN1 Act 3

sure we can try to give it a exact year

but if Time Loops and Mayak is the answer to the inconsistencies

then it's no longer possible to use dates to place things on a timeline

because something that occurs in June 1996 could happen after something that occurs in August 2000 for instance

if we can't use dates to place things relative to one another
we are forced to simply use the order of events

dates CAN be used to help find out order of events
but only on a small scale

[shell gull]

Technically at that case everything would be relatively at the same Time.

[ripe berry]

yeah

[ripe berry]

also if it's talking within the same game the dates/timeframes can be used in placing stuff

like HN1 Act 3 is 19 years after Act 1 meanwhile Act 2 is only 2 months after Act 1

and HNVR directly leads into Act 2

thus HNVR can be assumed to occur before Act 3

the year this all occurs no longer matters

[silver vine]

https://tenor.com/view/antman-what-the-hell-happened-here-avengers-gif-18240147

[dry patio]

Hn lore happened

[ripe berry]

discussion due to Nikita saying RBO's Year doesn't matter and that there's a reason for that

oh snap!

Sorry for the Ping!

[ripe berry]

(I mean we should've realized years dont matter to HN when they shifted the timeline like 20 years forward for the AS)

[stuck tendon]

I'ts definetly not 1997 in Raven brooks Enzo has Kids no?

[crude dew]

https://tenor.com/view/ratatouille-disney-disney-ratatouille-disney’s-ratatouille-gif-6885947684231525203

[ripe berry]

yep

dates no longer matter to the HN Timeline

[pale urchin]

https://tenor.com/view/gotg-what-chris-pratt-starlord-guardians-of-the-galaxy-gif-11287925

[ripe berry]

now now, I know that sounds bad, but the dates still exist
it's just the HN Franchise is in a non-linear format at this point (where due to time loops something that occurs later terms of dates comes before something else in the timeline) so these dates are basically useless for timeline stuff

and Nikita himself said the year RBO occurs doesn't matter (and that there's a reason for that)

#old-rbo-discussion message too

[ripe berry]

Question Nikita was responding to in #basement : well i think its a pretty small question but i understand if you'd rather not answer but is there a specific year rbo takes place in?

[safe charm]

Could this signify the guest having taken control of Aaron? Either that or its just that hes still missing

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxpSlFJrQxE1c8IYYJbmfibyVzSGWS6Ulw?si=RxRYWshY2b5_0ORZ

[ripe berry]

either or
not enough to know for sure

[ripe berry]

like
RBO has a timeline placement relative to other entries
but at the same time the year of RBO has a reason for not mattering (aka it can occur in just about any year)?

[unkempt sleet]

it just shows that the only "missing" kid left is Aaron

[safe charm]

Ahh

[ripe berry]

yeah I personally just go with this

although
what about Mya?

[unkempt sleet]

And hopefully HN2 will end Aaron's story

[safe charm]

I do wonder if guest is out for teds body specifically

[ripe berry]

she's technically missing and isn't found by the end of HNVR so...

[safe charm]

Or if he just want

[unkempt sleet]

Well Mya is "missing" in the eyes of the public

[safe charm]

To screw with him

[unkempt sleet]

In reality she's just gone

So like there's nothing to do about her

[ripe berry]

wait
HNVR's ending is only showing the Aaron Poster because he's the only "Missing" Kid who hasn't had his story wrapped up in some way

Nicky escapes the Basement and eventually gets over his trauma

Mya's dead

[unkempt sleet]

yea so like thats what i said pal

[ripe berry]

but Aaron is still "Missing"

[ripe berry]

great minds think alike

they kinda have to end Aaron's Story in HN2 at this point

[unkempt sleet]

Burned House...

Knowing that Theodore is doing that to protect him, Emotional moment so acting without much th

inking

if youre talking about HN2 ending

[safe charm]

Hes inking

[unkempt sleet]

shut up

pressing enter too early claims another victim

[ripe berry]

he's a Inkling from Splatoon

new theory

[ripe berry]

https://tenor.com/view/and-cunning-vicious-and-cunning-victim-pot-of-greed-gif-10827349568535858072

but still
I'm curious how HNVR answers questions we had about HN1/HN2...

[unkempt sleet]

what was the questions we had about HN1

like HNVR establishes the connection of Aaron and Guest for HN2

but like idk about HN1

[ripe berry]

(Get the image Guestyyy/The Guest)

[unkempt sleet]

Maybe it just refers to Act 2's start with Aaron saving Nicky

[ripe berry]

ok actually Imma just send it

(this is from a article about HNVR)

[safe charm]

This was from

2023 may

After hn2 released

Well according to Nikita everything is still canon

Including graphic novel 2

And hnvr

[ripe berry]

https://www.meta.com/sv-se/blog/quest/hello-neighbor-vr-search-rescue/ to be exact

a better example would've been GN1 being claimed to have been filling gaps between HN1 and HN2

[safe charm]

Well

[unkempt sleet]

yea no GN1 doesnt fill anything

[ripe berry]

because HN2 is unfinished so GN2 could still link in

[safe charm]

Gn2 was being

Made During that time

[unkempt sleet]

GN2 makes sense with HN2 with like Guest and stuff

[safe charm]

He problaby confused the 2

[ripe berry]

GN2 still has ties to HN2 though

[unkempt sleet]

but GN1, GN1 is just Theodore making an another park to accidentally kill someone and refusing to accept the charges

[safe charm]

gn2 cant be before hn2 because like its implied guest takes mr Peterson over

And that doesnt connect with fg

[unkempt sleet]

doesnt connect with ANYTHING

[safe charm]

Also It having guest wont make it directly tied with hn2

Directly

Sounds like their very very

Connected

[ripe berry]

and it's not wrong about how it "picks up right where the first Hello Neighbor leaves off"
if by the first Hello Neighbor they specifically mean Act 1

[unkempt sleet]

they said that with HN2 too in the steam description lol

[ripe berry]

rereading it I think assuming this is what the article meant was likely a mistake

it fills in the gaps between HN1 and HN2...
because it shows the transition between Act 1 to Ted becoming Wanted by the Police that he is in HN2

[unkempt sleet]

well true

[ripe berry]

and the Lingering Questions thing is a separate thing

[ripe berry]

and there it continues on from HN1 Act 2 when Nicky's Escaped

thus both are true

[unkempt sleet]

Guest

[safe charm]

I personally dont think

Its a lore thing

[unkempt sleet]

I think it's Guest

[safe charm]

Just a time skip

[ripe berry]

and GN2 "filled gaps" between HN1 and HN2 at the time it was written
but they changed the story

[ripe berry]

The Guest watching Quentin pass out for the 6th time this week starting to doubt that it chose a actually competent person:

[shut hill]

mmmm

[ripe berry]

because it's still a unsolved case

Guest and Pumpkin Kid

and also the Banner in HN2 is used by like 2 people max compared to the HQ seen in the Books

I doubt one person has the time to clean up 50 posters of a unsolved case

hence it being a unsolved case

[ripe berry]

again

[unkempt sleet]

I think MJ was looking at that case for a connection to the Cult case that he was investigating

or Guest

case

I mean Banner was MJ's office before Quentin

[ripe berry]

yeah

and also
RBB Archives is slightly outdated as it calls Keith Keith Nielsen instead of Keith Newsom

[unkempt sleet]

Well the school is abandoned

those posters might've been there for a long time

[ripe berry]

I still believe it's mostly reliable but you can use that to say it's been decanonized if you want

[unkempt sleet]

Keith Nielsen is the name i'll always use for Keith smh

[spark tulip]

it is

the forest area is the final chapter in Act 2

[ripe berry]

bc the rest of Act 2 wasn't shipped with it

[spark tulip]

multiple chapters are missing from Act 1's ending to Act 2's ending

there are at least around four chapters missing from Act 2 as of right now

Catacombs, Abandoned Town, Guest Forest, and Guest Shelter

possibly more

well, we know about the rest (mostly) now

[ripe berry]

DLCs occur before the Intro

[spark tulip]

considering we already have Act 2's ending, it could be that it's a sort of HN2 demo situation again. (twisted chapter/day from the actual thing)

[ripe berry]

there's another road on the Main Map, which could be the road where the DLCs to HN2 occur on

and then Quentin drives into Town proper in the intro

[silver vine]

why do you really want Aaron to die

[unkempt sleet]

Because it would make sense?

Burned House will be in HN2
We know from HNHS is that Aaron is the reason of the Burned House
Aaron has been the longest question of "What happened to him" in the franchise and the Sequel to HN1 answering that would make the most sense

[silver vine]

yes

but I dont think he would die

how does him dying make sense

[unkempt sleet]

And Theodore manipulated by Guest, no longer bound to protect Aaron would open up a whole lot of new possibilities for the future

[silver vine]

hasnt the child already been though enough

[unkempt sleet]

Because everyone in the Peterson Family dies

[silver vine]

let him live his life

[ripe berry]

then where's Aaron in GN2?

[unkempt sleet]

Except Theodore

[silver vine]

how do you know

[unkempt sleet]

i mean like
Franklin died
Diane died
Mya died

[silver vine]

how am I supposed to know

[ripe berry]

why doesn't Aaron get brought up at all in GN2 unless he's dead?

[silver vine]

Lisa......

[ripe berry]

not enough plot relevance to inform us of if she died or not

[unkempt sleet]

Lisa was just a plot device for the books, she really isnt an important character

[silver vine]

some of my friends consider Lisa to be much much better than Franklin

so

there are several who'd disagree with you

[ripe berry]

Ted acts like he has no family left in GN2
implying Aaron to be dead

[ripe berry]

how much a person likes a character =/= Plot Relevance

[unkempt sleet]

Lisa doesnt even have a personality

[ripe berry]

and in GN2 bro is depressed enough to want to flood all of Raven Brooks so others can understand his feelings

[ripe berry]

all the logic would imply that in at least one timeline (it's confusing ok) Aaron dies

[unkempt sleet]

Lisa doesnt even get mentioned in Aaron trilogy i just realized

she just exists for Nicky trilogy

SN was mostly imagination

[tribal talon]

I think Secret Neighbor is an alt.

"Universe

[ripe berry]

there is no alternate universes in HN Lore

[tribal talon]

oh

[dry patio]

Everything is canon

[ripe berry]

Nikita/Grandeturisto said as much

[dry patio]

And it is not a multiverse

[unkempt sleet]

does different continuities count as alternative universes though...

[ripe berry]

(or well Alphas/Betas/Demos (aka anything that isn't a final release) technically aren't the same universe but they aren't canon so they don't count)

[ripe berry]

I'd say yes

[tribal talon]

And The Error World

[unkempt sleet]

I'd say no especially looking at the AS adaptation of the story

[ripe berry]

Alternate Continuities are basically just alternate universes that don't interact with each other

[unkempt sleet]

true

[tribal talon]

true

[ripe berry]

it'd be a Multiverse but you don't do anything with said multiverse

[tribal talon]

Aaron is 18 in 2001

[unkempt sleet]

The problem is that, to create a timeline with all the inconsistencies from different media, you would create a practically a different timeline

[ripe berry]

yeah
there's no way to explain the inconsistencies that doesn't feel like a cop-out

[unkempt sleet]

Thats exactly why i believe in different continuities with the adaptations

[ripe berry]

but then that contradicts Nikita's words

[unkempt sleet]

He just said no to Multiverse, What does the term "Multiverse" contain

[tribal talon]

Mabye there is a catch

[ripe berry]

based off a quick google search multiverse is smth like

[unkempt sleet]

maybe he thought of it like the Multiverse stuff thats been happening lately like MCU, Like different versions of characters and stuff interacting with each other at some point in the story

[ripe berry]

in fiction multiverse commonly refers to having multiple universes with different events coexist in the canon but not occur in the same universe

[dry patio]

Yea

[ripe berry]

(wait that's a bad definition)

[ripe berry]

except that's implied to happen

remember

Everything is canon

it's all that way because of Mayak

aka there is some point in every "universe" that "overlaps" I guess due to the Mayak weather station

[unkempt sleet]

Except now if "Mayak explaining everything" means Multiverse, then that would mean Nikita's word against Nikita's word

[ripe berry]

not saying it means multiverse

[dry patio]

It means time loop

[ripe berry]

I'm saying in this instance it means contradiction

there are other instances where it doesn't mean contradiction like time loops

[ripe berry]

because there is no multiverse
AND Mayak is responsible for it

one of the few options that meets both criteria

[unkempt sleet]

How does the time loops that y'all are saying for this scenario work, Because the timeloop i saw in Reset Day was just repeating a certain times over and over again instead of resetting the whole timeline

[ripe berry]

and nothing says it doesn't work like that?

[unkempt sleet]

And nothing says it does work like that either

[ripe berry]

time only has to loop back a certain amount to seem to reset the whole timeline

[unkempt sleet]

It always goes back to November 1st in Reset Day iirc

It doesnt go back far

[ripe berry]

we don't see things from the perspective of the Cavemen
or rarely get hints to events before the 1900s

[ripe berry]

because that's when the Guest wants it to loop back to

because (it's actually November 2nd) that's after he kidnapped Enzo

[unkempt sleet]

Okay but that doesnt confirm that he can go back to the start of the timeline

[ripe berry]

it doesn't NOT confirm that he can

we only got 1/3 of what was likely another whole trilogy

we're working with a incomplete puzzle

[unkempt sleet]

Well yea but it doesnt confirm he can either

[ripe berry]

because we only got 1/3 of the trilogy

[unkempt sleet]

I'm just saying, the concept of the whole timeline resetting is not the same Reset Day's "Timeloop" concept

So like it's just a speculation without much of an evidence

[ripe berry]

it's not whole timeline resetting
again can't verify if anything before the 1900s got reset

[dry patio]

Nikita did say that a some people have correct thoeries but its in the minority

[ripe berry]

sure it's more then we see in Reset Day
BUT in Reset Day there's a reason we only see it travel back a certain amount of months

[unkempt sleet]

yea so the timeloop theory was not in the minority the last time i looked

[ripe berry]

not anymore

at the time it was the minority

[silver vine]

no, its been confimed several times that SN is canon

there are no alt

univer

[ripe berry]

like genuinely look at the history of this channel and try to find when a bunch of people all agreed that time loops are the reason for the inconsistencies

[tribal talon]

Interact with my (or our) timeline

[unkempt sleet]

Also the timeloop reset theory is practically different timelines with just a different excuse rather than just "different timelines"

[tribal talon]

Oh ok

[unkempt sleet]

different timelines with extra steps

[ripe berry]

then you're saying the Perspective stuff is correct

it's either glorified headcanon territory or time loops

[unkempt sleet]

🧍

[dry patio]

Perspective thoery is wayyy easier to understand than time loop but i dont know which one is canon

[ripe berry]

and time loops is the one supported by Nikita saying Mayak would explain everything

[unkempt sleet]

I'm saying with the lack of evidence, currently different continuities is the only thing that logically makes sense for now

[ripe berry]

except different continuities goes against the evidence directly

it's either lack of evidence or contradictions

[unkempt sleet]

Nikita's statement w

shit

hold on

Nikita's statement combined with the lack of evidence makes things so complicated currently

[ripe berry]

I'd much prefer lack of evidence then contraidictions or glorified headcanon

[silver vine]

why are yall red

[tribal talon]

https://youtu.be/102JfZ5vn5k?si=EMAoBr1R4Bux9avR

[unkempt sleet]

im saying we should just ask what Nikita meant by no multiverses when he does one of the Basement QNA's
A question like "Hey Nikita, so like you said no multiverses, does that mean Books and AS and Games are all in one continuity because there's so many inconsistencies" or something like that

[unkempt sleet]

im red for spooky month

[dry patio]

Am i red

[ripe berry]

I thought he clarified he couldn't explain atm

[silver vine]

red is not equal to spooky

[unkempt sleet]

Did he said that about no multiverse

[dry patio]

Yes

[unkempt sleet]

its a vampire apple with red color bud

[ripe berry]

#old-rbo-discussion message

[unkempt sleet]

okay but is it confirming or denying theories if we just ask to expand what he said a little bit, not much

[dry patio]

Idk

[ripe berry]

I thought it was pretty clear what he was saying there

[unkempt sleet]

It was pretty clear, but it leads to so many inconsitencies in one timeline

so like not very much

[ripe berry]

it's either the inconsistencies share a timeline or you contradict Nikita's statements

time loops allow for the Inconsistencies to not have to somehow work together seamlessly AND doesn't contradict any statements

[dry patio]

The thing is the animated series or hn2 has to explain time loop thoery

[ripe berry]

and wouldn't you know it

AS ends inside the Mayak

[unkempt sleet]

AS might

[dry patio]

For people not aquianted with the lore

[unkempt sleet]

i dont think HN2 will though

[ripe berry]

it has a lack of evidence BUT it has a basis in the lore

we don't know the limits of the time loop because we only see it in one specific context

[stable junco]

But isn’t Norman Darby’s knowledge of the future also evidence for time loop theory?

[ripe berry]

yeah

it explains what's going on with him regardless of if you think he's Quentin or not

[ripe berry]

and a now banned(?) member named Shogun shared this schizo document of ideas/weird instances that make sense if there's a time loop going on (and some other semi-unrelated ideas too) https://docs.google.com/document/d/15H6d6o9x9KPWlWkfTHauWoY91CS6ow3Ay49r169X7NY/edit

most unbelievable part is the end with the Error World stuff

[crude dew]

and it STILL has incorrect stuff

[tribal talon]

OOF

[snow mauve]

Most of it is used in the wiki which is the useless and not a great reliable source

[crude dew]

ngl I feel like this time loop that you guys are hyperfixated on, is a weak excuse of the erasing of fourth wall breaking (that HN had).
that side plot with the Neighbor being aware of that he is in a game explained a lot of things, and yet fit into the universe as well, since it was part of HN from the beginning..it even reflected on the nonstop changes they had to do with the game.

now that is completely erased and replaced with this overcomplicated time loop sh

[snow mauve]

Most of it has completely outdated info

[crude dew]

yeah the wiki should
disappear
to put it simple

[dry patio]

Yes

[stable junco]

This makes a lot of sense!(Though I don't agree with the error world stuff) If it is true, then the foreshadowing is INSANE. The game timeline seems to happen first, because Theodore doesn't know what's going to happen...

[crude dew]

it does more damage than use

some of the explanations in the book aren't really explanations, unpopular opinion or not..they are kinda there to give you a "hahaaa!" feeling
for example Norman giving this "trust Narf" thing to Aaron, but then nobody other than his own family calls Nicky "Narf" so technically Aaron has no clue who is Narf
Norman being time traveller isn't explained at all either, it is not even stated..we assume that he is a time traveller, because he literally doesn't age and knows what will happen..best we can guess is that Theodore was told by Norman what will happen and he is trying to prevent it, but cannot, since it happens
idk time loop overcomplicates everything imo

not to mention that clearly neither of this existed in the first trilogy and it shows lol

[shell gull]

Ok I have to be Completely honest this sound so Crackpot but I find it a nice interpretation with some Logical Points, but yeah I’m definitely taking this to a Grain of Salt because most of it makes Zero sense with the actual Plot.

[shell gull]

I’m pretty sure iirc they’ve called Nicky “Narf” in Public or around other People.

[stable junco]

The "Trust Narf" thing is like that because "Ooooh Puzzle Master, he speaks in riddles" that's part of his character. Norman being a time traveller is implied though, it is supposed to be a mystery so it's not explained fully.

[shell gull]

He’s someone stuck in a Time Loop, he’s constantly trying to change the Future but fails every time.

[crude dew]

well a mystery that will never be explained, can turn into a plothole, so

two sided coin

[shell gull]

He already knows what happens so he tries to change it, him helping Diane and Adelle, watching over Aaron etc.

[crude dew]

too bad that two key characters were completely erased, because Norman didn't turn out to be Quentin in the end

like, he was but then he didn't become the Quentin that is in HN2 now

[shell gull]

Also goes back to the fact this is supposed to align back to the original Plot of HN2 with the whole Time Loop thing and being a connection for RD, with how Quentin was supposed to be Norman explaining how he got trapped in the Time Loop, along with the fact they have the same Description just Norman is shorter due to the fact he’s at Old Age causing him to shrink.

[shell gull]

Blame the fact that they changed the Plot of the Game.

Also to put another thing they didn’t entirely change the Plot of HN2, a lot is still there, for Example, The Guest using Aaron to bait Quentin is still a universal thing, just differently, in the Beta he was actually hiding in the Attic waiting for Quentin, in HN2 he just trapped him in The Museum where a Cultist got him, The Guest was supposed to have some implications with The Cult taking in The Cult was still around in RD and had connections, which still exist in HN2, so while the Major Stuff isn’t the same a lot is still there (Michael was the one who pointed most of this out).

[stable junco]

Are we 100% sure Quentin isn’t Norman anymore? Or is it just very unlikely?

[shell gull]

If you don’t believe the Bait thing remember the fact The Guest controls and Talks to the Crows, and conveniently all the Crows would hang in the Path to each House each Day, The Guest was leading you.

[crude dew]

oh, I'm nonstop blaming that
that is the reason behind everything, because Carly alone wrote for, like 3 different storylines if not more

[shell gull]

Very unlikely.

[crude dew]

their description is almost 1:1 the same
but none of Norman's actions are done by Quentin and their personality is different too

[shell gull]

Well Nikita was her directions they did the Equal Job but Carly was the one who actually wrote everything out and put more influence to it I believe.

[shell gull]

Also taking the fact a Flock of Crows is also swirling around the Location you need to go to as well.

[stable junco]

I was really excited to see the Norman=Quentin reveal before HN2 came out
(Btw, does Quentin even have any certain personality in HN2?)

[shell gull]

Yeah the Plot for HN2 was really well done before it got changed, I still think they can redeem it if they don’t give a Cliffhanger Ending or Happy Ending for the Story Expansion, I think it should be a Sad/Bad Ending for sure.

[crude dew]

well the thing with Quentin is the exact same as with Nicky
he went through so many changes, we basically hardly can call him the exact same character, because his role and purpose in the plot [which also changed] was different. at least Quentin's look was changed (unlike Nicky's) which kinda hints that the character did get changed.

and uh...not really? they tried to keep his clumsy behavior and he is scared, but does the thing anyway, I guess this is kind of forced self-confidence that he is putting on himself
and he has a very wild imagination. maybe too wild.

[shell gull]

You have to take in the fact that he’s had Nightmares of everything he’s Solving each Night, the reason he kept pushing through at the End was to save Aaron, but then he realized Aaron truly didn’t need saving, but now we are seeing how everything went downhill from there.

I’m still happy they kept one of the Key Plot Points which is that Quentin coming to RB was a Deadly Mistake of his.

[stable junco]

So it doesn’t really go against Norman’s, right?
I really hope they hint at timeloops or smth with the story expansion to explain the “everything is canon” statement.

[shell gull]

Just differently, in the Original Plot he came for an Author Program, while now it’s because he got transferred to replace MITH/M.J.

[crude dew]

I mean, the Quentin - Ike thing wasn't debunked either. it's just that they probs didn't know each other with Theodore in HG...but certain things 1:1 matched with both characters

[stable junco]

I hope they didn’t change the ending too much from the original story(like the whole Guest “helping” Quentin thing). So yeah, I believe it’s going to be Neutral at best.

[crude dew]

you literally don't make two very similar characters to your story, I think

[crude dew]

(flashbacks) well...who knows

[stable junco]

I would love Quentin being Ike as much as him being Darby. But Ike seems way less likely.

[crude dew]

oh Ike just vanished

probs after HG was scrapped

[stable junco]

I mean he died in the books

[crude dew]

didn't exist in the games
technically
HGP kinda relies on the books a lot (it is probably the other way!)

I think Ike was def Quentin around HGP and maybe in HG a bit, but then he transformed

[shell gull]

True.

[crude dew]

imagine if it turned out to be two twins in the end 😭 HG and HN2 Quentin

skull emoji is a bit rude

[stable junco]

Sorry

Quentin’s current character to me seems like “My sister went missing, so I want to help find missing people” and it would be sort of hard to combine with Norman I think. Though definitely possible.

[crude dew]

plus he originally is replacing a missing journalist we know nothing about
all we know is that he was researching the cult (which Norman did) and then poof, he most likely was killed (not stated)

so it's just...mixing

this whole "ah yeah Quentin is from RB btw" thing came with the latest patch

[ripe berry]

no way
this dude finally updated his HN Timeline

[stable junco]

Yeah, I kinda like that it gives him at least some character, but I’m not sure how I feel about this

[crude dew]

well he has relation to RB now, and personal involvement, but did we actually need that? 🤔
still unsure how he immediately right away focuses on the Peterson house, like
who told him to go there? does he know them? did he read smth?

[ripe berry]

and almost immediately...
Fandom.

I ain't even gonna say anything...
just the fact he's still using Fandom for this shit.

[spark tulip]

he doesn't immediately go there

he goes to several different houses before coincidentally spotting Mr. Peterson

[ripe berry]

also did dude just call HE and SN non-canon?

[spark tulip]

he even places the DLCs after HN2 Act 1

[crude dew]

they were just spinoffs
see, that's what I hate with stuff, like fnaf (or hn, recently)
"oh, you have that lore info? too bad, it's not relevant anymore, we changed the plot"
ok thanks

[dry patio]

Like fnaf we have to dig through the depths to find out which ending is canon

[crude dew]

HN was at least rewarding
the old storylines have an ending and they made sense

like
you do have smth in hand

[stable junco]

I don’t really get what exactly you’re talking about?
If I understand correctly, then it’s not really changing lore, if it’s not fully established.
For example, if Quentin was meant to be Darby but isn’t anymore then while technically they DID change the lore, there are no contradictions with anything previously established so it doesn’t count as changing the plot.

[ripe berry]

the thing is sometimes they did just straight up change details

like in the HNHS Launch Trailer it's all but outright said the Petersons moved in recently (and it goes through parts of the events of HNHS from Ted's Perspective)
yet everything afterwards indicates they've been here for years

and because of that Nicky also moved in before the Petersons originally but Missing Pieces changes that

Missing Pieces also changes how long the time gap between HNHS and HN1 is

[stable junco]

But isn’t that because of the different timelines?

Just like AS happens in modern times for some reason

[dry patio]

You dont want to hear this but.......

[ripe berry]

it's unclear if the time loops are the correct answer to the contradictions
but it's implied
also no multiverse according to Nikita

[ripe berry]

that doubt is enough that contradictions can still affect how people see the plot of this franchise

[stable junco]

Yeah, I understand but there supposedly is an answer that makes sense

[ripe berry]

and time loops has the most implications for it

but also
when you have time loops

it's hard to actually care about anything that occurs since most characters have no knowledge on the fact there's a loop

meaning any progress they make can get undone at any moment and they wouldn't even know

[stable junco]

Yeah, I agree with this.
I was just approaching the topic from a technical point of view.

[ripe berry]

only people whoare implied to have any knowledge on the time loops are Norman, Ted, and anyone Norman/Ted are friends with

[stable junco]

Because technically(with time loop theory) there could be no contradictions.
But I don’t like how it just makes most timelines seemingly mean nothing.

[ripe berry]

yeah

like the original timeline only has meaning because some characters can seemingly remember the original timeline

meanwhile in AS none of the characters seem to have had any knowledge on what was gonna happen

from what we've seen Ted has no clue about the future in AS, meaning both Games and Books have suddenly become meaningless as no one knows anything that occured in those

and there is no Norman Darby in AS yet

[stable junco]

As I see it right now, the books are the latest timeline

[ripe berry]

so you see it as:
Games -> AS -> Books?

[stable junco]

Yeah

But I’m not 100% sure, it just seems to make more sense

AS season 3 might end with a timeline reset, but it’s just a guess

[ripe berry]

yeah maybe

[stable junco]

I wonder if they are going to change lore in the HN1 remake(if it happens)

[ripe berry]

I mean there's only really any sense of progression in the time loop shit with Games and Books thinking about it

HE - Ted discovers the existence of Time Loops and tries to learn how to use them to possibly save his family

GN2 - Ted, realizing how futile it is to attempt to change the past, decides to flood Raven Brooks so everyone can feel the loss he has

ends with the Guest taking control of Ted's Body

Reset Day - The Guest is using the know of the Loops to it's advantage by making a loop everyone is trapped in

[stable junco]

Yeah that’s sort of what I think

Could the Aaron trilogy be a different timeline to Nicky trilogy?

[shell gull]

Ted semi-counts, it’s weird, Ted is the Main Cause of the Time Loops but wouldn’t know about them prior to the Creation, similar to how Quentin wouldn’t know of him being in a Time Loop prior to him getting stuck in one, if that weren’t the Case there would be no Time Loop.

[ripe berry]

only way to continue from this set-up with the loops is if AS continues the story from Reset Day

[ripe berry]

except Ted has his parent's notes and could've theorized about how to use this stuff for time travel

experimenting with different conditions throughout HE to test his theories

[ripe berry]

how other entries tie into the Loop plotline in HE/GN2/Reset Day is unclear

but

the early version of HE (Island Plot) would've had Ted in the 1970s be trapped in a time loop by a unknown entity (unknown due to this version of the game not releasing).
even though this plot was scrapped it's still referenced throughout the books

[stable junco]

In the original timeline before the loops it's probably how he got the idea

[ripe berry]

as you can guess by me calling it Island Plot Ted is stranded on a Island after a Plane Crash
and there's apparently two fake copies of Raven Brooks on this island or smth?
and Ted has made several carvings referencing the loop and stuff on the island
everytime he dies he loops back to a earlier point in time (aka in-universe explanation for a respawn mechanic)

[ripe berry]

it's hard to say for sure because, as Nikita has said, we shouldn't combine scrapped plot lines with the current story

[stable junco]

But is it really scrapped if it's in the books?

[ripe berry]

or well
he kinda said that but not really

#old-rbo-discussion message

[stable junco]

It doesn't matter much anyway, the outcome is he tries to use timeloops

[ripe berry]

it's in the books
but nothing specific is referenced
at most it's just Ted saw something on a island he ended up on due to a plane crash in the 1970s

[ripe berry]

yeah

[ripe berry]

and Aaron somehow draws this island in Book 4 despite not even having been born yet when it occured

or sorry

Bad Blood

[stable junco]

That's really weird, maybe it's just a side effect of the time loops

[ripe berry]

yeah maybe

I mean Aaron Trilogy is def after the loop started

[stable junco]

yeah, but is it after or before Nicky Trilogy loop?

[ripe berry]

I'd probably say before due to Ted's behaviors in both trilogies

in Nicky Trilogy Ted says in one of the Tapes Nicky watches something like "how can I rest while my Brain is broken" or smth and ends up several times hurting/snapping at his family, even before the GAAP Construction
meanwhile in Aaron Trilogy he actually cared about his family (he sure as hell doesn't do anything shown in the Nicky Trilogy Tapes)

[stable junco]

Makes sense
Do the events of Aaron trilogy happen in Nicky Trilogy then?

[ripe berry]

I'd assume something similar but slightly different to the Aaron Trilogy occurs due to Ted acting different
this is assuming this was a intentional retcon instead of a accidential one

like how the HN Guidebook (aka Misinformation central) claims Trinity had no link to the Petersons at the time of Missing Pieces but she definitely did in the Aaron Trilogy

[stable junco]

The time loops also seemingly can literally move the years events take place(Aaron trilogy 1991-1994, Nicky Trilogy 1995-1997, and AS 20XX)

[ripe berry]

btw yeah no don't trust the Guidebook, it's full of misinformation
it uses the PROTOTYPE House Layout for Act 1 Floor Two

[stable junco]

Yeah i know👍

[ripe berry]

probably occurs when you loop things far enough back

[ripe berry]

it allows for events to play out differently leading to characters getting born later then they normally would

btw Aaron Trilogy-like events remains soundly in the 1991-1992 range between time loops (except in AS where it'd have to be pushed up due to every other date getting pushed up)

AS is the only time where dates change drastically

HN1 Act 1 originally occurs in ~June 1996 (HNHS is March-May so the Milk Cartons must expire the next year)
while I don't remember exactly when in the Nicky Trilogy Book 3 (it's version of Act 1) is in Summer 1996

HNHS moves from March-May 1996 to Book 1's August-September 1995

[stable junco]

We don't really know when stuff occurs in different Trilogies, like Act 1 could happen in 1995 in Aaron Trilogy

[ripe berry]

and 1996 is reiterated in Hello Neighbor 1

[stable junco]

And AS took advantage of this probably, not to stay in the 90s

[ripe berry]

yeah

but there still likely is some point from which the events before that remain in the same time period

[stable junco]

I'm trying to make a loop theory timeline rn, but I don't know how to call the Nicky Trilogy/Games equivalent stuff

[ripe berry]

also-
thinking about it
maybe Ted DID have some level of knowledge on what was going to happen in AS

I mean in the AS Ep. 1 Intro Nicky somehow escapes Ted despite seemingly like he wasn't gonna fight back

we obviously don't have much but we only got 1 season that's not that lore heavy to work with atm

[ripe berry]

I mean there are hints that smth similar to Nicky Trilogy occurs

Nicky has a pinboard thing on both Ted and the Guest set up in his room in HNVR

[stable junco]

Loop theory timeline:
1st iteration - H&S -> HN1 act 1 -> SN -> HE -> HNVR / HN1 act 2 -> HN2 -> HN1 act 3 -> LOOP

2nd iteration - Animated Series -> LOOP

3rd iteration - Bad Blood -> Grave Mistakes -> Puzzle Master -> (Missing Pieces -> Waking Nightmare -> Buried Secrets) with changes -> SN -> HE -> HNVR / HN1 act 2 -> HN2 -> HN1 act 3 -> LOOP

4th iteration - (Bad Blood -> Grave Mistakes -> Puzzle Master) with changes -> Missing Pieces -> Waking Nightmare -> Buried Secrets SN -> HE -> HNVR / HN1 act 2 -> GN2 -> Reset Day

[ripe berry]

and Act 3's Birthday Scene is recontextualized through Book 3 to no longer be a part of the Father/Son Plot

[stable junco]

This isn't finalized yet

[ripe berry]

all I'll say is:

where's HN1 Act 3?

[stable junco]

NOO

oops

[ripe berry]

I'd understand skipping Hello Neighbor: Nicky's Diaries (HND) since it only released on Mobile and never got finished (only Season 1 released)
and RBO is unfinished so it makes sense not to include it
(and HN2 DLCs aren't important enough to appear in most timeline)
((and let's not talk about SN Roblox or the Guidebook))

[stable junco]

I literally forgot... Idk where to put it though...

[ripe berry]

but HN1 Act 3/Finale (most often group Finale into Act 3) is hard to forget

[ripe berry]

with the exception of the timeline with GN2 just place it after HN2

[stable junco]

It has to be in the 1st iteration, but it wouldn't work because supposedly HN2 is the loop

[ripe berry]

there's been like 50 debates on the order of events for the order of
GN2
Ted's House burning down
Act 3/Finale/HND
and Reset Day
at this point

some say Ted's House burning down was retconned

some say Ted's House was rebuilt for Reset Day

some say Reset Day occurs before HN1 Act 3

some say HN1 Act 3 is before GN2

some place HN1 Act 3 between GN2 and Reset Day

[stable junco]

I'd say in time loop theory it just doesn't happen in the Reset Day iteration

[ripe berry]

it doesn't help that Mr. Peterson cameos in the Big City in the Apartments Section of HN1 Act 3 instead of being in Raven Brooks

(granted they made him near impossible to see but he's still there)

and if you wanna include RBO is occurs either in it's own loop or in one of the loops between HN2 and HN1 Act 3

before Piper Arrived

in the context of Reset Day the more recent loops start on November 2nd 2021 and end on a random day in November

except in Reset Day the loops are exclusively applied to Raven Brooks so in the real world it's Summer 2022

[unkempt sleet]

wouldnt that mess with Quentin if the whole timeline was timelooped

[ripe berry]

na
Time Loops didn't end at the end of Reset Day

[unkempt sleet]

bro lived in Raven Brooks and left and then came back again

[stable junco]

Ok, what if the games are both the first iteration and the last? Maybe Theodore eventually decided to let things happen like they should
We don't know for sure what would happen after Reset Day...

[ripe berry]

and for what HND is
tldr; post HN1 Act 3, Nicky finds a box of old stuff in bedroom, tries to remember what happened to Aaron, gameplay loop in Nicky's Head that ends with a retelling of a part of Missing Pieces

other Seasons of HND never released so it's unknown if they would've been retellings of the rest of Nicky Trilogy or not

there's like one change that's noteworthy other then the lack of dates shown in HND and that's that the GAAP isn't burnt down in HND like it was in Missing Pieces

oh yeah btw HE can't occur in the Nicky Trilogy

GAAP's been destroyed by the end of Nicky Trilogy

paved over to be replaced with a supermarket

[stable junco]

Loop theory timeline:
1st iteration - H&S -> HN1 act 1 -> SN -> HE -> HNVR / HN1 act 2 -> HN2 -> HN1 act 3 -> LOOP

2nd iteration - Animated Series -> LOOP

3rd iteration - Bad Blood -> Grave Mistakes -> Puzzle Master -> (Missing Pieces -> Waking Nightmare -> Buried Secrets) with changes -> SN -> HNVR / HN1 act 2 -> GN2 -> Reset Day -> LOOP

4th iteration - (Bad Blood -> Grave Mistakes -> Puzzle Master) with changes -> Missing Pieces -> Waking Nightmare -> Buried Secrets SN -> HNVR / HN1 act 2 -> HN2 -> HN1 act 3 -> HND

What about this one

[ripe berry]

minus placing HN1 Act 3 exclusively in a different timeline then HN1 Act 1 I'd say pretty good

[stable junco]

It's because I assume HN2 loops the timeline back, so act 3 can't happen

If it doesn't reset the loop, then act 3 would def happen

[ripe berry]

then there's 5 timelines

because it feels odd to have a part of a game not occur in the same timeline as other parts of the same game

sure there can be multiple copies of these events

but I don't think the game would randomly jump timelines like that

[stable junco]

Then how does the 4th loop restart?

[ripe berry]

yeah that's a problem

HN1 and HND provide no clear way for the timeline to loop from their events
Granted HND is in a permenant state of being unfinished

HND was meant to have 3 seasons
but the company that made it kinda... shut down after only one Season dropped

(tinyBuild still exists, just the company tinyBuild had make HND got shut down)

[stable junco]

I assume it was going to retell the books, but we'll never know for sure

[ripe berry]

yeah it's assumed it would by most too

but neither HND nor HN1 provide any clear way for the time loop to occur

[stable junco]

Yeah, that's why I can't just put Act 3 in the first loop

Even though it belongs there

[ripe berry]

granted we don't even know if HN2 will end with a time loop

[stable junco]

Exactly

[ripe berry]

so you kinda can't just assume it will

since unlike AS we don't even got any hints to it ending that way thus far

[stable junco]

I'm not sure about HN2, so I just used it in a way that works rn

Actually you're right, I should place act 3 after HN2 until more info comes out

[ripe berry]

yeah

and it prevents a 5th loop with no clear hints to it existing separately from one of the other loops just to make all of HN1 share a timeline

[stable junco]

Though it would be narratively satisfying to have the 5th loop be the original timeline but finished

[ripe berry]

yeah

[unkempt sleet]

so with the timeloops, there isn't a satisfying ending to the HN's story

[ripe berry]

I mean

not to mention the Guidebook

BUT...

[stable junco]

It's either Nicky's Trilogy is the final one but there's a loop after act 3 in the original one
Or
The Games are the final one but there's a loop after HND

[stable junco]

I feel like Ted realizing he has to let it happen without changing the past is at least somewhat satisfying

[ripe berry]

"in the world of Hello Neighbor, there's no true escape from evil. There is no final goodbye."

[stable junco]

This is either just a clever play on words OR a huge lore drop.

I hope it's the first option 😐

[ripe berry]

Guidebook is weird as hell when it comes to even trying to consider it with the lore

because it's simultainously in-universe and out of universe

[unkempt sleet]

And being stuck in the same events forever?

Because if Guest is the cause of the loops, i dont think he will stop when that happens

Unless the loops are caused by Ted

[stable junco]

I feel like they are caused by Ted

[unkempt sleet]

which idk, it felt like it was Guest in Reset Day

[stable junco]

Guest controls Ted in Reset Day, so he controls the time loops

[ripe berry]

this entire page is mixed signals
it both acts like it's in-universe through the "Rave Brooks Public Library"
but then refers to HNHS as a game

[unkempt sleet]

That would still mean he cant stop the timeloops though, not with Guest in charge

[stable junco]

And since Reset Day is open-ended there's a chance Guest could be stopped

Were there more books planned or not?

[unkempt sleet]

idk

we should ask Jay tbh

[ripe berry]

with time loops
the Guidebook's inconsistencies might not be inconsistencies
but literally just looking at this one page makes using the Guidebook for lore a minefield

[unkempt sleet]

Carly says it's up to tinyBuild if there's gonna be more books, and Jay is the only one we can ask (and get an answer) from tinyBuild

[stable junco]

We just have to assume a lot of stuff to have a complete timeline
For now I assume a Reset Day trilogy would end with a timeline reset

[ripe berry]

oh
and also this thing in the guidebook casually says "And when exaclty did Act 3 take place in Nicky's life, if at all?"

but again

using guidebook for lore is a minefield

[unkempt sleet]

ughhhh i hate the timeloopsss

[unkempt sleet]

it works fine in Reset Day but a timeloop that contains the whole timeline would suck so much

[stable junco]

Yeah but it's the most likely option for now

[ripe berry]

all I'll say is
if you attempt to use the guidebook for lore or place it in the time loop stuff
good luck.

[stable junco]

I'll honestly just ignore it, it's possible to solve the lore without it

[ripe berry]

unless you wanna say somehow everything from HN1-Book 3 both are real events AND exist as in-universe games/books

[stable junco]

Wait I forgot
Does Reset Day reference GN2 in any way? And how does GN2 end(the protagonists leaving iirc)?

[ripe berry]

because the Guidebook can't seem to decide for the life of it if it wants to be a in-universe book or a out-of-universe guide

[ripe berry]

GN2 ends with the Protags returning home after the Mayak Weather Station is "destroyed" but with a tease that the Guest/Ted is still out there

and then in Reset Day the Weather Station is rebuilt

[unkempt sleet]

Wait I dont remember a mention of Mayak in Reset Day

[ripe berry]

it's not called Mayak
it's smth like "Raven Brooks Station of Meteorology" iirc?

[unkempt sleet]

No i know that

I dont remember any mention of the weather station

[ripe berry]

I'm saying that's what it's called in Reset Day

[unkempt sleet]

in Reset Day

[unkempt sleet]

I know Mayak and the Weather Station is the same thing Mike... I just wrote Mayak because it was shorter😭

I'm just asking where does it get mentioned in Reset Day

[ripe berry]

i don't remember
I just know it was mentioned

[stable junco]

So GN2 and RD are the same timeline?

[ripe berry]

probably

[unkempt sleet]

I re-read Reset Day recently, and i really dont remember

Might be me but like it would be nice to have a clarification

[stable junco]

Wait, I just realised... GN2 has to either be in the last or second to last timeline

[ripe berry]

this shit's why we ignore The Rat™️ (me and a friend call the guidebook that)

[unkempt sleet]

Everytime you mention Rat, this is the only thing that comes to my mind...

[ripe berry]

no way
Nicky's talking about the Guidebook

[ripe berry]

?

[stable junco]

Because if Ted gives up on changing the past it would make no sense for him to restart the loop again

[ripe berry]

funny how the Guidebook of all things implies Act 3 straight up doesn't occur

[ripe berry]

except now the Guest is also aware of the Loops and how they work

[unkempt sleet]

tbh i feel like Guest is the reason that Ted knows about them in the first place

[stable junco]

That's why I think in a supposed Reset Day sequel the Guest would be defeated and the timeline would reset to the games timeline but with act 3

Loop theory timeline:
1st iteration - H&S -> HN1 act 1 -> SN -> HE -> HNVR / HN1 act 2 -> HN2 -> LOOP

2nd iteration - Bad Blood -> Grave Mistakes -> Puzzle Master -> (Missing Pieces -> Waking Nightmare -> Buried Secrets) with changes -> SN -> HNVR / HN1 act 2 -> HN1 act 3 -> HND -> LOOP

3rd iteration - (Bad Blood -> Grave Mistakes -> Puzzle Master) with changes -> Missing Pieces -> Waking Nightmare -> Buried Secrets -> SN -> HNVR / HN1 act 2 -> GN2 -> Reset Day -> LOOP

4th iteration - Animated Series -> LOOP

5th iteration - H&S -> HN1 act 1 -> SN -> HNVR / HN1 act 2 -> HN1 act 3 -> THE END

Like this

[ripe berry]

I actually feel like it's slightly different then this now

because the AS would only really feel satisfying if it ends with the Guest getting defeated

so I see it the exact same you do
shift AS to the 2nd to last loop

Ted has already given up on changing the past, and is just letting events happen
but the Guest is still looping stuff

[stable junco]

But Reset Day would only revert back if Guest is defeated

[ripe berry]

the AS has one final fight with the Guest, ending with a time loop reverting to the original timeline

[unkempt sleet]

how do you even defeat the Guest

i feel like that's not possible

[stable junco]

Maybe The Guest would escape being defeated in the Reset Day Trilogy™️ by reverting the time back, thus starting the AS timeline

[unkempt sleet]

like for HN1 you beat shadowman because he was a manifestation of trauma, so like overcoming it meant defeating him

[ripe berry]

yeah that'd make sense

[unkempt sleet]

but how do you defeat a ancient cryptid that can shapeshift, get into your head, controls luck

[stable junco]

And since he restarted the loop in 20XX, the AS moves the events to 20XX

[ripe berry]

and since Ted is just letting things happen
he's finally trying to build a new future
Hence why we can see him in the City in HN1 Act 3 instead of being in Raven Brooks

[unkempt sleet]

i feel like that would be impossible since he's like y'know a criminal

[ripe berry]

Ted both metaphorically and literally decides to finally leave the past behind him, hence Ted's House remaining burnt down

[ripe berry]

Act 3 is ~20 years after HN1 Act 1
and the least amount of jail time for kidnapping based off a quick google search I did ~a year ago is 20 years

[stable junco]

That's why I've been saying that it makes sense for the games to be both first and last timelines

But if Ted decided to let things happen in GN2, is he really letting things happen in AS?

because he should logically

[ripe berry]

kinda?

I mean he's attacking the cultists possibly because they work for the Guest

[stable junco]

Oh, he's probably trying to stop guest from tampering with the timeline

[ripe berry]

yeah

meanwhile he's somewhat letting things occur as they should because like
HN1 Act 1 still occurs roughly the same way
but Act 2 occurs way too quickly so he acts differently then he normally would for Act 2

(a few weeks instead of 2 months)

[unkempt sleet]

But he escapes jail, or like he never goes to jail in the first place either

[ripe berry]

and also he's in the city in Act 3 and not RB