lore-discussion

[manic dirge]

Cool document

Interesting theory

[steady nest]

I wonder how the guest fits in all of this

[supple coral]

aaron is already blamed for lucys death

[frigid pumice]

Wait

If aaron escaped

That means the guest escaped

Because in search and rescue

The guest offers aaron a plush the guest and the guest keeps aarons plush

Does that mean

The guest can shapeshift into aaron or something?

Or the guest took the form of aaron

And aaron just turned into the guest??

Im not sure tho

[silver vine]

Yeah it's confusing

[strange lance]

They're voodoo dolls. They're not literally becoming each other they're controlling each other

Just in that moment though

[strange lance]

There is no red key in hn2 fg that sets Aaron free

its actually the generic green key

The Green key will set you free...

[silver vine]

The hell?

Y'all forgot HN2 bossfight already?

If I had my computer right now, I would've showed you

[silver vine]

What?

It's a red key and red lock?

[strange lance]

The cage key

[silver vine]

I'm not talking about the cage key

[strange lance]

Well I was? And you didn't make it very clear what you were talking about lol

And the molten recolored red key in the boss fight does not set Aaron free he literally goes back to ted and you get knocked out the end

[silver vine]

It does set him free

It was his choice to go back

[strange lance]

Ok then it didn't set him free

[silver vine]

It did

[unkempt sleet]

technically true but ehh

[silver vine]

Just because he ran back, doesn't mean the red key didn't set him free

[strange lance]

Also lets be real, what norman says was not refering to the recolored key in the boss fight of a game that was not originally what they intended

[silver vine]

But now it is

[strange lance]

Yeah no

[unkempt sleet]

Yea time traveller norman darby was referring to HN1 Act 1...

[silver vine]

They had no reason to recolor the key

They solely changed the color just to fulfill Norman's prophecy

[strange lance]

They had no reason to do a lot of things in hn2

[unkempt sleet]

did they recolor the key?

[strange lance]

Yes

[silver vine]

The key is red

RED KEY

[strange lance]

The key model was originally gold but for some reason they made it molten red

And it honestly looks worse

[coral wyvern]

What y’all talking about

[silver vine]

Cuz Norman's prophecy needs to be fulfilled

[silver vine]

Red key

[unkempt sleet]

Well if it's recolored maybe i can see that being intentional

[strange lance]

I think you're looking too deep into this

[silver vine]

Idc man

[coral wyvern]

The key from the hn2 finale?

[unkempt sleet]

yea

[silver vine]

All I care is red leh

It's very important item in HN

Red ley

RED KEU

KEY

[strange lance]

For being an important item its part of a really lame boss fight hm

[unkempt sleet]

lmao

[coral wyvern]

It was an excuse of a boss fight

[unkempt sleet]

yea but that's not really what we were talking about

[strange lance]

Also you're kinda missing like the whole point of Normans message. "When the time comes trust narf". The red key setting him free is related to Nicky. Without Nicky breaking into the basement with the red key, Aaron never would have been able to rescue all his friends, he had to trust that Nicky would come to save him back in hn1 even if he didn't want him to. Then when Aaron is given the red key, hes able to save nicky which in turn "frees" Aaron from everything bes gone through and he gets taken away.

The hn2 ending has nothing to do with nicky

[unkempt sleet]

i still think norman's message is about HN1 Act 1 but honestly the red key from the bossfight is also a red key that's meant to free Aaron so it's still a cool reference

i dont think it matters much anyway

[strange lance]

Yeah

[strange lance]

Well that didn't really work out for Nicky and Aaron did it lmao

Took 2 months 😭

[silver vine]

"trust narf" maybe it means Aaron should trust narf to free him

Which happens in AS

[silver vine]

It doesn't matter much, but it's a cool reference

Just like the multitude of book references in HN2

[unkempt sleet]

I agree

[strange lance]

I wouldn't say multitude

Or I'm just blind cause I don't recall any book references

Outside like the blueprints in the treehouse which are just reused assets from hnd

[spark tulip]

so, how do you know it's not the other way around?

[strange lance]

Because its in the same art style as the other memory items from HND

[spark tulip]

and even if it isn't, they still put it there for a reason

making new assets would be pointless if they can just reuse something

[strange lance]

I never said they had no purpose I was just pointing out they were not made specifically for hn2

Same way they reuse HE items as decor

Please don't write an essay just list the book references 😭

[silver vine]

1996 date
1984 date
Guest causing vehicle to crash
Cult
Fart machine, talking doll and poop slinger blue prints in tree house
Roller coaster blue prints in Neighbor's house
Inventors club photo in Neighbor's house

[silver vine]

It's a list

I'm just thinking if I left anything

Roger Peterson photo is in the files

Mya's photo from book 3 is in Neighbor's house

[unkempt sleet]

Aaron's bag in Nicky's treehouse iirc

[silver vine]

How do we know it's Aaron's?

[strange lance]

1996 and 1984 dates, how are those references to the books they are just dates, I guess that could be a reference, yes, the roller coaster blueprints were removed, erm its called the young inventors club

[unkempt sleet]

i think the filename said "Aaron's Bag" iirc

[silver vine]

Roller coaster blue prints were removed?

[strange lance]

Yes

[silver vine]

I remember

[strange lance]

They are no longer on teds desk

[silver vine]

There are two copies

[strange lance]

I do not know why

[silver vine]

One in Ted's desk, one in the tree house

[strange lance]

They were removed when teds house got updated

[silver vine]

Never noticed it

Oh and also, amusement park photo in the house

[strange lance]

Thats more of a HE reference

[silver vine]

More of both

[unkempt sleet]

Well Ted building GAAP originates from the books

[strange lance]

As far as I can remember ted does not take a photo of himself infront of the park entrance

In the books

[silver vine]

Maybe he did when Aaron wasn't looking

[strange lance]

I think that photo is just there to say "hey HE's park in canon"

[unkempt sleet]

There was a photo of him with a giant scissors opening the Park i think? It was mentioned in Missing Pieces

[silver vine]

I think that's his other park

I don't remember

[unkempt sleet]

yea that might be true

[silver vine]

Oh

Also

[silver vine]

Catacombs in HN2

[strange lance]

You can't really call overaraching plot points references lmao. Thats like if mayak appeared in hn2 and I said "omg thats a book reference" no it just exists in the hn universe

[silver vine]

Ah fine

[unkempt sleet]

Would i get killed if i said Keith

[silver vine]

Aha

[silver vine]

does this count as red key

[wooden hollow]

orange

[silver vine]

ok

FINALLY

after hours of searching

BEHOLD, the legendary RED KEY that SETS Aaron FREE

[wooden hollow]

yeah there it is

[strange lance]

That sure does set him free

Free of Quentins nasty hands

[silver vine]

I/Quentin freed him, it was his choice to run back

what am I supposed to do, huh

[silver vine]

yo @narrow rain you better see this, I spent hours searching this screenshot

Anyway

The red key is of major importance to the franchise

It has really deep meaning

I will talk about it later

Now, I need sleep

It does

Oh my goodness

WE set him free from his father

It was HIS choice to go back

WE set him free

Narf frees Aaron in AS

Oh my goodness, this is just a simple nod to book 6

Not really, he's still stuck in the museum

Hes set free and has the choice to leave after we unlock the red key

He was set free, but he chose to run back

"stealing"

I don't have time for this nonsense

In going to sleep

Bye

Oh you really want to do this?

Aaron is not freed man, he's still stuck in the museum with his father, and he's freed only with the red key when he's actually given the choice to leave forever

But he chose not to

How does HN2 "steal" forest protector concept

Both books and HN2 are literally from the same franchise and same IP

[supple coral]

cause they did it worse

[silver vine]

How

[supple coral]

because the books are peak fiction and hn2 isnt

[silver vine]

Bro, it's 1 AM now, and instead of sleeping, I'm having pointless discussion with kids

[wooden hollow]

This is the funniest thing I've read today

Thanks

[supple coral]

i am not being that serious

so what do you guys think of the doc

like overall

could it be true

well some parts i was just spewing random shit out like the error world

[ripe berry]

I don't think they even thought about Norman's Prophecy
They were purely thinking about how the Red Key is Iconic so they should make the game end with the Red Key as a callback to HN1 without thinking of the Books at all in that particular case

aka
the reference is completely unintentional

because by that logic the ending of Act 2 (if Nikita didn't say the Red Key Ending was non-canon) is the Prophecy

[unkempt sleet]

well if it's a reference to HN1 Red Key its still a cool reference

[ripe berry]

Norman's Prophecy is basically a complete lie

Aaron's never really set free from anything by Nicky

and if you don't think the Trust Narf bit means Nicky's the one to free him then why mention it in the first place

also no HNVR does not count

in 2020 HNVR was still the Rescue Squad breaking into everyone in Raven Brooks' Houses

at the time it was written the Phrase had basically no meaning in context to what other stuff existed at the time

[ripe berry]

and HN2 Still had a plot of the Neighbor hiding out in Guest World (Same Place Aaron would supposedly be if HNVR counted)

only way to get meaning out of it from the time it was written is if it's referring to HN1

in-which still it takes 2 months for the Red Key to "Set Aaron Free"

if you don't do
Games
Books
and AS as 3 different timelines and say Aaron is dead in HNVR you're saying the phrase got retconned from it's only potential original meaning (which even then doesn't fit too well)

but that's just my opinion

anyways

What do you think the HN Timeline is

I personally go with
HNHS Release Trailer/HND (Memories)/HNHS
HN1 Act 1
HE
SN (Launch) (Minus AS Pilot and HG Film Reels)
SN (Other Pre-Quentin Versions) (same as above)
HN2 DLCs
SN Roblox (?)
SN (Post-Quentin Versions)
HNVR
HN2
RBO
HN1 Nightmare Seqeunces
HN1 Act 2
HN1 Act 3
HN1 Act Finale
HND

[steady nest]

We just need to know the AS story and it will all make sense

Apparently the lore on the guest started making 0 sense during the development of hn2

So that happened around 2020

This is why i want s2 so badly

[silver cargo]

Wait, RBO already has a story?

I thought it's some kind of a HN spin-off game.

[ripe berry]

there were lore signs in the prototype
I'll send them later bc I have to do smth

[ripe berry]

Lore Sign
1/4

Lore Sign
2/4

Lore Sign
3/4

Lore Sign
4/4

[shell gull]

Basically confirms it takes place after HN2 Storm.

[silver vine]

Now the guy didn't even respond to me

This sucks man

I just wanted to discuss for fun

I never want to have heated and serious discussion

If I back off, they think I'm "defeated"

:(

[unkempt sleet]

Yea thats annoying

[muted moon]

No

That story was scrapped before hn2a1 released

[silver vine]

Nicky does free him tho

"open the door, open the door, open the door, DON'T open the door. I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry"

[ripe berry]

and where's your proof of that?

plus

books take MONTHS to write

even if it's scrapped by the time the book's published
who knows if it was scrapped when that was originally written

(and granted
what I said there hardly means anything since we don't got any statements about if retcons were made to the lore at any point)

[silver vine]

Red key

[hazy slate]

will set you free

[silver vine]

🏠 🚪

Wait

The thing doesn't have an emoji

[velvet fossil]

Indeed

We have to fix this

[silver vine]

🛠️ 🏃‍♂️ 🚗

[snow mauve]

I'm gonna shove this in my locks

OOOOG

ME ❤ KEYS

[silver vine]

Whaa

[muted moon]

None of the pipe to other world assets had been edited after hn2a1 released

They had stopped working on it

[shell gull]

This is just Bias Opinions and not Fair Reasoning.

I can get a little Bias but your just losing the Argument with this one.

[snow mauve]

HAH

[snow mauve]

GOD no..

[snow mauve]

barf

[snow mauve]

What are memes?

Me mes?

Me.. mes..

meh mehs

We should make a lore discussion about memes

ShoGUN

shogun!!!!!

@supple coral my man

Get over here

I gotta tell you something

Shogun!!!

After all we've been through.. you're now gone..

SHOT

Gunnn

Oh my

[pale urchin]

🎵Whos that lounging... in my chair 🎵

[shut hill]

huh

[snow mauve]

Sick!

[shut hill]

😢

[snow mauve]

Damn that's sad..

[silver vine]

So, the AS is not written well?

[spark tulip]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mj0ZhrefQE

[unkempt sleet]

i come into lore discussion and boom what do i see?
Not lore

Woah im gonna die

[silver vine]

Lore

[hollow remnant]

why is there such a big space between "when" and "the time comes" is the person writing this stupid??

what a dumbass

[muted moon]

the red key will set you free when

[ripe berry]

Trust Narf.

[muted moon]

Dig Deep for the Way Out.

The Red Key Will Set You
Free When

The Time Comes.

Trust Narf.

norman really did forget how to write

[ripe berry]

yeah lol
30 years no outside contact probably does that to a person

[cerulean knot]

Is Medic TF2 secretley the Guest

[snow mauve]

Yes

[cerulean knot]

Good

I got muted for 1 hour for troll behaviour but i wasnt joking

[snow mauve]

Damm

[teal imp]

not cool dude

👎

[unkempt sleet]

so funny

[snow mauve]

Guys I'm so funny

[unkempt sleet]

😐

[snow mauve]

I told someone to die!

Depkis should totally kill himself guys

Oh wait sorry it was a typo!

It was just a joke!

[raw fractal]

so funny

[snow mauve]

Now that's quality

[raw fractal]

i laughed so hard yall!

[snow mauve]

Excellent joke

Where did you get that from?

[raw fractal]

the garbage

[unkempt sleet]

That is still not exactly funny

[snow mauve]

Yeesh..

RBR members

Am I right

[teal imp]

telling someone that they are going to die alone is not funny at all

[snow mauve]

But egg it was a typo!!!

It was just all a joke

I love making someone end their lives!

[snow mauve]

It makes them a better and funny person

[raw fractal]

😐

[snow mauve]

Hey cave tell me to die again..

I love your jokes so much..

[raw fractal]

yeah man

[snow mauve]

Say it again

[unkempt sleet]

You're so smart editing it and stuff

[raw fractal]

that joke was great

you should tell it again

come on

tell someone theyre going to die alone again

[snow mauve]

Where's the "die alone" joke?

[raw fractal]

do it

[snow mauve]

The hell is this

Yeah no

[raw fractal]

nah

[snow mauve]

Tell me the joke

NOW

[raw fractal]

tell the joke again

youve already told it once

[snow mauve]

Why you dodging our request

[raw fractal]

nah

[snow mauve]

What kind of clown is that

[raw fractal]

tell someone to die alone again

[snow mauve]

I expect a clown to make me laugh

[raw fractal]

because youve already done it oncxe

[snow mauve]

Because you're the clown

[raw fractal]

it should be no problem to do it again

[snow mauve]

You love telling someone to DIE

Alone

Why don't you wanna say it again?

Hm?

[unkempt sleet]

Okay we should move on i think

[hollow remnant]

this is neighbor hello lroe

[snow mauve]

The best part is I've not been well so I wanna see it again

[unkempt sleet]

You can shut up btw

anyway

[snow mauve]

Cmon say it

[raw fractal]

woop

[velvet fossil]

so... lore

[raw fractal]

yeah

[unkempt sleet]

you're so right jacky

[teal imp]

I love how the neighbor like does stuff in hello neighbor 1

[unkempt sleet]

this is so lore

look this is an important place in the lore

unfinished render but eh

[teal imp]

it was was so cool when he did that thing you know? its really cool

I wonder what implications to the lore that has

[teal imp]

🔥🔥🔥

[silver vine]

Why

[snow mauve]

They're the hn haters now remember

Hello neighbor ruined them

[silver vine]

Ok

But how does it have bad writing

That's my question

His character has improved drastically in season 2 tho

[silver vine]

There's another clip

As well

Also we can't really just say the show is the worst thing in the world just cuz Nicky isn't portrayed in a way you like

[steady nest]

Lore time

So i remember that in book 4 there was a scene similar to this

Where someone (i dont remember who) said that one time some kids went missing in the forest and when one was found, he didn't say a word

True

They're in separate timelines maybe

But that event may occur in both books and hn2

If someone finds the page in book 4 with that scene please send it here

My braincells

If they would've done that, the as would be like the pilot 💀

Books, as and games are all canon anyway

So yay

[steady nest]

I dont have book 4 at me atm

Have peace in your soul by knowing all are canon

[unkempt sleet]

Reading the books theres many inconsistencies that makes me just not be able to put in the same timeline as the games.
And AS is not different either, so i prefer my precious Games only timeline

[steady nest]

APPLE

[steady nest]

Can you send the

[unkempt sleet]

Which scene

[steady nest]

Scroll up a bit

I just remembered there is a scene in book 4 thats really similar with what happened to gerda

[unkempt sleet]

Oh Forest Protector introduction by Enzo and Trinity

Let me get it hold on

[steady nest]

Do you have book 4 at you?

[steady nest]

Yea that one i think

Man its been years since ive read the books

They were awesome

[ripe berry]

Games
Books
and AS
one of the better options for viewing the timeline, but one that gets critized a lot

[steady nest]

Bruh yall lets not have another lore conversation its useles

Alex devil man didn't scrap nikitas original story

And everything is canon because of mayak or something idk im not the grandeturisto man

[ripe berry]

Honestly you could even extend that even further
HNHS, HN1, HE, SN, HNVR, HN2, (maybe HND Too) and RBO are the original timeline
Books are a few loops in
and AS is the most recent loop
all they said way back when is Mayak would explain the inconsistencies
and a Loop would fit that

[unkempt sleet]

Here you go busfring

[steady nest]

Thank you

Now lets get reading

[ripe berry]

(Just doing this because some of the recent AS Character Designs are surprisingly book accurate (Jay/Luanne Roth)/fixed to be more book accurate (Lucy Yi))

[unkempt sleet]

They will, it's his ride

[ripe berry]

he never said he scrapped the lore from the books though
yes AS is a different way of events playing out yes
but it's not a different lore altogether

[unkempt sleet]

She just disappeared while riding Theodore's ride
İ dont think people will blame a lighting for stealing her

They will blame the ride maker

[ripe berry]

and with time loops anything can occur when time loops enough times

[steady nest]

the PARALLELS the LORE

[ripe berry]

as a FNaF Fan, the word Parallel triggers ptsd

[unkempt sleet]

Yea this part of the story is definitely inspired by the book's version

[steady nest]

Maybe it was all planned out...

[steady nest]

Hell naw

[ripe berry]

Games Timeline Tavish

[steady nest]

The mayors FATHER

[unkempt sleet]

i refuse to call HN2 Mayor Tavish unless it gets confirmed

Mr. Mayor

[steady nest]

...

I want s2 man

[ripe berry]

if I need a name for the HN2 Mayor I call him Tweed due to AS Pilot

[unkempt sleet]

Nooo thats worse

Tweed is not what we need....

[steady nest]

If we find out that the mayors name is tavish in s2 im gonna do a backflip

[unkempt sleet]

Marvin Tavish

The name does fit him but until it's fully confirmed, i aint calling him that

Tbh those were like ancient tavishes

During Roger and Adelle's time

[ripe berry]

Mayor's alive in that same time period tho if the age ranges from AS apply to the games/books tho

Ted's like 10 so 1955 we see the HN2 Mayor alive

[unkempt sleet]

its okay for me, im not trying to make him a tavish anyway

[ripe berry]

yeah

[peak pasture]

Guess whos back

[shell gull]

Mayor: Owns GA…

Tavish

[silver vine]

Whaa

Do we know HN2 Mayor owns golden Apple?

Also, golden Apple went bankrupt, its not a thing anymore

[fallen mirage]

The mayor in hn2 cant be the tavish that we read about in the books because he got taken out of his position after being discovered and hn2 takes place long after the events of puzzle master

it doesnt rule out him still being in the tavish family, hes just not the tavish from the books

maybe hes a family member?

[shell gull]

That was in the Books, HN2 and AS has nothing saying that, also there’s a GA Fountain on the Park in front of his Lawn clearly indicates he is Highly Associated with GA.

[shell gull]

Books do not directly Connect to HN2.

[fallen mirage]

they dont necessarily directly connect but they serve as a rough guideline of the storyline. Franchises that use partially connected mediums of universes (ex. games to books/shows) usually still share key events.

In this case, the forest protectors being discovered is a pretty large event in the prequel series, and mayor Tavish being directly connected to them strongly suggests that they wouldn't change the story of a character just like that.

[unkempt sleet]

Val i dont know who you are but i love your mindset

[shell gull]

I agree this is neat thinking.

[shell gull]

True, but like I said due to them not being directly Connected while they may possibly not be the same Character they clearly have the same distinct similarities with what their Plots are and the Characters themselves.

[hollow field]

Hello Neighbour is monkey

[silver vine]

I highly doubt they wouldn't have gone bankrupt even after Lucy

[silver vine]

My new neighbor is a monkey hi neighbor Android gameplay

[fallen mirage]

haha thank you

[fallen mirage]

and thank you as well

[fallen mirage]

yea i agree that makes sense. considering how they portray the mayor in hn2 to be secretive just like the rest of the town members, it would be completely possible honestly, and it makes sense taking into account that theres forest protector attire in the mayor's house.

maybe its from past mayors (ex. tavish) or maybe every mayor has used it? not sure

[shell gull]

The Mayor is a Cultist in HN2.

Every Character except Ted in HN2 is a Cultist.

[fallen mirage]

ohh actually?

i didnt know that part

where was it confirmed in i havent been keeping up with hn2 much lately

[snow mauve]

In game details

There's cultists related stuff inside one of the houses

Like a mini gold crow statue

With bad luck coins

[unkempt sleet]

The cultists are still around by the time of HN2 confirmed by LayoutV2 (an unfinished early draft of the cutscene that happens right after the current HN2 ending, right after Quentin gets hit on the head)
And Mayor has a secret room with cult stuff, so it's obvious that he's a cultist
https://youtu.be/W9a_zMzzgAM?si=FWSsPu-J2u0FIjqe

[snow mauve]

That too thanks mapples

[fallen mirage]

okay thank you!

btw have we had any updates from tinybuild/alex/nikita about the next part of hn2? its been practically radio silent in terms of hn2 but basically everything else (ex. animated series, secret neighbor, and rbo) is getting some form of publicity from them

[snow mauve]

NOPE

Not yet

We have to be patient

[fallen mirage]

damn

yea

i swear every time i come back to this franchise after a long break nothing ever changes haha

[snow mauve]

Secret neighbor is like dead brah..

Haven't received nothing for almost a year now

[fallen mirage]

they did an update for it though recently didnt they?

oh

thought they did my bad

[snow mauve]

Last update was like December

I'm pretty sure

[fallen mirage]

ohh

i just wish there was some way to access what hn2 alpha 2 wouldve been

[snow mauve]

Ew no..

[fallen mirage]

imo besides the supposed lag n all it looked like the best build

[snow mauve]

Also alpha 2 is not really a public play test

[fallen mirage]

environment wise

[snow mauve]

I mean it kinda was

But most of it

Is just promotion

For trailers

[fallen mirage]

i know it wasnt public it wasnt released

[snow mauve]

It didn't look that great anyway

(Imo)

[fallen mirage]

idk i kinda liked the aesthetic

[snow mauve]

Like it's mostly just rendered/animated for trailers

[hollow remnant]

💀

[fallen mirage]

its an opinion bro

[unkempt sleet]

We have tinyJay assuring that the HN2 development is not abandoned but other than him, pretty much nothing

[snow mauve]

Sometimes HNG is cranky nowadays and that's the way it is

[fallen mirage]

it felt true to the style of hello guest and felt like a good combination

[snow mauve]

Hello guest just sucks in general

[fallen mirage]

honestly i wish they kept the rugged artstyle it fit more considering the "worn down by time" look of the amusement park

[hollow remnant]

the main location of the build was floating boxes in the sky

[snow mauve]

Well that might actually be a reality

[fallen mirage]

the build wasnt great but i loved the concept

[fallen mirage]

wdym?

[snow mauve]

Ruined town

[fallen mirage]

well yea but honestly it fits in more with the aesthetic/artstyle of the current game

once they saw how popular hello guest was getting the art style changed to be more in tune with a polished looking game

i believe i heard that somewhere, at least

[snow mauve]

What

[fallen mirage]

the old artstyle was just more fitting and looked better considering the storyline

[hollow remnant]

how

[snow mauve]

Whar

[fallen mirage]

the setting of the park looked better when it was rugged and run down

[hollow remnant]

how does old artstyle fit the story better

[snow mauve]

It's just art..

[hollow remnant]

oh wait i misread i think

[snow mauve]

Kaboom

[fallen mirage]

i understand that. Im js saying that its my personal preference

[snow mauve]

Understandable ig

[unkempt sleet]

Because Storms and thats why the town is looking abandoned and worned down

or if you mean Alpha 1/1.5
its just the Guest World, so eh

[hollow remnant]

guest world so peak....

[unkempt sleet]

Guest World is cool when its done right like HNVR
Not HN2 Alpha's...

[fallen mirage]

like in your opinion does quentin's character model look more at home in the old artstyle or new artstyle?

imo i think he looks like he'd be from the old artstyle

[hollow remnant]

new easily

[unkempt sleet]

i'd say new artstyle tbh

[fallen mirage]

nahhhh

[hollow remnant]

since hes not covered in shit

i mean i guess when you get the shit from the trashbag on you in full game he looks like he could be from old art

[fallen mirage]

idk me personally i feel like the old artstyle is js so much better

[unkempt sleet]

its all up to personal preference in the end anyway

[fallen mirage]

plus it fits the vibe of the run-down town and amusement park as well as the guest with the creaky noises n all

[fallen mirage]

yea u right

[hollow remnant]

imo old artstyle has only looked good once

and that was in the e3 trailer

[fallen mirage]

it feels like the vision of what the game was supposed to be changed so much

[snow mauve]

New

[fallen mirage]

like im glad we get to explore raven brooks n all, but i feel like the amusement park wouldve been a better way to go

[unkempt sleet]

E3 Trailer was peak...

[hollow remnant]

true

[fallen mirage]

fr it was the best

[hollow remnant]

that and deep dive are the only times "alpha 2" was good

[snow mauve]

Da music

[fallen mirage]

what about the dev log #1?

[hollow remnant]

and thats why i don't consider them to be alpha 2😈

[snow mauve]

Mid

[hollow remnant]

oh my it was so bad in retrospective

[fallen mirage]

bruuu

[snow mauve]

It's something

[hollow remnant]

theres so much horrible looking shit in there

[snow mauve]

True

And the way it's presented is just weird..

[hollow remnant]

nahh adam imbir is peak

[snow mauve]

The only good thing

[unkempt sleet]

Adam's Imbir should be canon smh

[hollow remnant]

this is so true

[snow mauve]

I miss Adam imbir

:<

[hollow remnant]

have him play imbir in the HN movie...

[fallen mirage]

idk i loved seeing the rugged style all those years back it felt more like the game was actually catering towards the community and real fans as opposed to how its now catered more towards entry level players who havent heard of the franchise before and youtubers who want to make vids without having to know extensive lore n all

although the lore isnt too extensive anyway

[snow mauve]

However it's BIG

The lore in this franchise is 👌

[fallen mirage]

plus they also catered towards investors and publications like how u see stuff reported on by playstation articles

[hollow remnant]

oh the mid

[snow mauve]

Barf

Adam imbir doe

[fallen mirage]

dont get me wrong i love the lore and ive kept up with all of it, i have all the books and have seen everything in the games plus ive been following the franchise since the first alpha of hn1

[snow mauve]

Righhhhhht..

[fallen mirage]

but it hasnt been added onto much in the past couple years tbh

nothing really new

i thought we wouldve had 3 books in the sequel book series but we only got the singular reset day and that was it

[hollow remnant]

oh my

holy moly

[snow mauve]

Have you checked out the animated series val?

[fallen mirage]

the animated series isnt much imo either

no offense it js feels like a money maker and thats it

[snow mauve]

It's new and pretty good doe

[snow mauve]

Well it exists for newcomers

[fallen mirage]

and they add lil bits of lore in but not anything really qualitative

[snow mauve]

And a little refresh to the story

[fallen mirage]

yea i guess

[snow mauve]

It's only season 1

Just starting with the basics

But season 2 is where things get juicy

Like the guest

[hollow remnant]

season 1 adapts a lot of lore tho

[snow mauve]

Well it's mostly hn1 with hnvr mixed

[fallen mirage]

i loveddddd this artstyle maybe thats js me. didnt really like how it didnt look like a "full" map in the sense that it was all kinda lackluster, but the actual artstyle itself was great imo

[hollow remnant]

it adapts Act 1, HNVR and Act 2 and a little bit of H&S

[snow mauve]

Yeah

Not much new tho

[hollow remnant]

season 2 is HN2 and SN

[fallen mirage]

sadly thats all stuff that we've seen enough of already

[snow mauve]

I mean it's better off with the basics

For new comers

[snow mauve]

And a pinch of books lore

[hollow remnant]

yeah

[fallen mirage]

i js wish we would get an actual update to hn2 already, i understand that they dont want to make the same mistake that they made in the past by trying to promise too much in their trailers and then underperforming to the expectations, but honestly this franchise is going down a bit

[snow mauve]

Yeah it sucks

But I'm sure it'll be worth it

[hollow remnant]

nah HN is probably in the best place its been since 2017 ngl

atleast critically

[fallen mirage]

hopefully

[snow mauve]

Even tho it's making most "fans" lose hope

[fallen mirage]

bro ive been a fan since alpha 1 of hn1 and ive always been the type of person to hold out and keep waiting cz i think itll work out in the end but im losing hope fr

[snow mauve]

From all this waiting

[snow mauve]

I still have faith and patience

[hollow remnant]

whats your opinion on Alpha 1.3...

[fallen mirage]

a lot of years of general disappointment with a few good things honestly

[snow mauve]

I am a true hn fan!!!!

🤓

[hollow remnant]

nope not even close

[snow mauve]

Yes even close

[fallen mirage]

wym?

[snow mauve]

The alphas/betas is the one thing I mostly despise tho..

[hollow remnant]

L

[snow mauve]

W

[hollow remnant]

alphas are peak

[snow mauve]

All this "alphas is better" stuff is just boring

[hollow remnant]

(just alpha 2....)

all this alphas is worse stuff is just boring

[snow mauve]

Nah

We need more full games appreciation

[snow mauve]

Too overrated!!

[hollow remnant]

i was one of the first here to say that the alphas were worse then full game i get to say this...

[snow mauve]

Least you LOVE hn2

:>

[hollow remnant]

no

[snow mauve]

Yes

[hollow remnant]

nope

what do you think of alpha 1.3 depkis

[snow mauve]

Needs a little more salt

[hollow remnant]

fair

[silver cargo]

I think they also changed the artstyle for optimization.

From what I've heard, the old artstyle was not complelty optimized.

[fallen mirage]

ur right i believe i heard that somewhere too

i wish they had js found a way to optimize the old artstyle anyway but its in the past ig

[muted moon]

no

the artstyle change was in 2021

probably like 1.5 years after hg was scrapped (hg was scrapped at some point in 2019)

[granite portal]

Yo

Hello Neighbor

[worn ibex]

HG was scrapped in 2019 but they still released the alpha?

Kinda strange

[silver vine]

They want HG to be a demo to HN2

[worn ibex]

Ahhh right

[crude dew]

if they never released the HG alpha, I'd have been furious
still furious bc of HN2 alpha 2

HG legit had literally everything a game needs

[unkempt sleet]

I love nightguard simulator with a really boring gameplay cycle

[pale urchin]

Imagine wanting that for hn2...

Me too... signs

[crude dew]

if it was more boring, you'd fall asleep during the loading screen man

[snow mauve]

WRONG

[manic dirge]

Wrong channel durrr

[shut hill]

doy da dur

[tribal talon]

you're saying this just because nikita made it
if it was made by anyone else you wouldnt praise it as much as you do now

[plain solstice]

so heres the lore for beginners the neighbor says hello then they can oh no i go kidnap

[snow mauve]

Then we have

Cultists

Mayak

Lucy yi

Missing people

The guest

Luck

Luck devices

Urban legends

Fears

Timeloops

[plain solstice]

i am top 25 speedrunner for hn so tv clip go haha we we

[unkempt sleet]

heh...

doesnt this like debunk the "Ivan, Finch and Delroy just joined the Rescue Squad when they decided to break in" in a games/books timeline🕺

They look like they were all friends hanging out before breaking in, in HNVR...

[strange lance]

fun fact: this is a drawing from Nicky as stated in the files

How nice of him to draw his friends

also they made the rescue squad friends with nicky since forever

thats been a retcon for a while now

[unkempt sleet]

the question is that, how much retcon should there be until it's just a different timeline

[strange lance]

if you haven't noticed even between the games things are constantly being changed, thats just how hn is unfortunately

the real questions you should be asking is why delroy's color is green and not yellow

nicky is a terrible artist 0/10

[astral agate]

Isn't this HE?

[strange lance]

no that is hnvr

[astral agate]

I never noticed that

[strange lance]

that drawing is actually in quite a few places, Nicky drew it everywhere for some reason

its by his bed, behind the shed, on the side of the house, and also in the nest

[strange lance]

Nicky's jersey, this is very important

[ripe berry]

you know
in the context of a games-only timeline this is not a problem

we don't see the entirety of the Beginning of HND (Memories) to HN1 Timespan

[unkempt sleet]

Exactly...

[ripe berry]

Delroy, Ivan, and Finch could just not be mentioned in HND

[unkempt sleet]

Games Only timeline my beloved

[ripe berry]

also
no matter what
there will be retcons in a story
retcon's technical definition just means something that wasn't originally a part of the story is added to the story

like the existence of the Rescue Squad is a retcon as they didn't exist in the HN1 Story

HNHS isn't a retcon as it was intended as a part of the original HN1 Story but they were rushed for time so it became a separate game

[ripe berry]

introducing a new character isn't automatically a retcon
but if you add a new character or plotline to the pre-existing story it's a retcon

so like HG wouldn't have any retcons (if Ted wasn't the Guest back then) as none of the character ever interact with the original plot of HN1 in any way

with the context Ted made the GAAP it has a retcon of adding that to the story
but by itself HGA1 wouldn't be a retcon as it in no way interacts with the original HN1 Story

but obviously that isn't what most think of when they hear Retcon

they think of a pre-existing fact getting changed

[ripe berry]

thinking about it
the inconsistency/retcon argument on both sides might be a little biased

to prove it, state the inconsistencies with either the Books being Game Canon or HN2 being Game/Book Canon and I'll reference a similar thing you let slide

example:
there's a month-long gap in-between Diane's death and Mya's in HNHS but it's only a day or two in the Nicky Trilogy
ok sure, but by that logic Book 1 and Book 5 are two different timelines as the GAAP went from being open for 2 Weeks in Book 1 to One Day in Book 5, you let that slide, so why not a similiar time crunch of 1 Month to a few days

kidding
I'm not actually gonna do it

but just saying insert inconsistency here = different timeline (not even counting unconfirmed things) feels hypocritical
that's why I also use the fact Nikita had a idea to explain inconsistencies with Mayak in 2020 and didn't mention the AS at all in his messages to says Books and Games are separate timelines

[ripe berry]

now with AS it's obviously a different timeline as the inconsistencies are a lot more notable then Books have with each other or the games have with the books

[shell gull]

My issue is the unnecessary Retcons.

[dry patio]

Why is the neighbors basement huge in the first game but really small in the second game is it because of nikis trauma?

[unkempt sleet]

Yea it's probably like boarded up

I'm hoping we can see it in Ruined Town with how the houses are ruined there's a chance the boarded up part of the wall might be destroyed

same

church

but for the existing locations i agree

there shouldve been more stuff

um church

i dont think Raven Brooks have two churches

[ripe berry]

but one church is in disrepair for years while the other seems to just fine in HNHS

[unkempt sleet]

i dont think even if it canonically was, they wouldnt add that much detail just for a background building

[ripe berry]

they put Diane's Grave there in HN1 Act 3

showing they do put effort in what for most playthroughs would just be background buildings

[unkempt sleet]

diane's grave is not in the same level of detail with a disrepaired church

[ripe berry]

also
where's Diane's Grave in HN2?

If the intention was for them to be the same church that'd be the most obvious thing they could do to indicate that

yet look around and you don't see her grave anywhere

there's a grave for Beatrix but not one that has any way to link it to Diane

[unkempt sleet]

I still dont think there's 2 churches in Raven Brooks

[ripe berry]

tons of churches get abandoned every year for a multitude of reasons
This could be a case where after enough time a 2nd church was built to replace the old one that's in disrepair and abandoned

having there be two churches feels weird but ultimately is the most logical option

I would bring out the mapping problems but the Maps in Hello Neighbor are rarely consistent anyways

but it's still weird they placed the church on the opposite side of the map it was in in HN1/HNHS/SN if they are the same

[unkempt sleet]

Okay now that maybe i could accept

[ripe berry]

it also explains the lack of Diane's Grave
this Church is (approximately) 7-10+ years abandoned at this point

by then they had a new church
and you can't use design to indicate they're the same as the HN Church Design is just kinda a default church
but notably the Entrance is on the exact opposite side relative to the tower bit between HN1 and HN2

(sorry I don't really know the proper terms for parts of churches)

[silver vine]

The entrance to the large basement is walled

It's shown in the VR game

[silver vine]

But we do know Marts marriage happened in HN2 church

Which is another retcon from the books

[steady nest]

Maybe it's the crypt

[crude dew]

technically they are both in the crypt (idk if that's the english name of the fancy grave) so I assume that somehow Mya was buried there after she was found. this sounds horrible, but you get it.

oh and Diane was actually buried there anyway
it's like a family crypt ig

what I'm more confused about is...Quentin was from the big city, no? and he visits RB for the first time, and he's like "what is going on here"
but turns out he has to be from RB, since the article suggests that

[crude dew]

omg maybe they got married again!
people do that here
not so common though
it kinda would retcon HS tho? they are just moving in in HS
then why did they come to this church to get married, where did they live before

I guess you guys know this

[unkempt sleet]

Is that Gravity Falls

[crude dew]

it is.

[snow mauve]

It's all coming together

[crude dew]

at some point I just have flashbacks from GF episodes

[novel bramble]

I think the main part of Raven Brooks from the games is only a district or small part of the town, as we see in WTRB it’s a bigger town then what we see in the games. So he might be from the city just never lived in Raven Brooks we see in the game

[snow mauve]

Clearly

We know that he is a replacement journalist

After that one journalist went missing in raven brooks

Also note that hn will always have some inconsistencies moments

Like the town being small

While in other media

It's kinda big

Plus we have 3 separate timelines (games, books, and animated series) each being their own thing while still share some bits of lore from other media that we can piece together

[novel bramble]

Well your able to fit the animated series or atleast some sort of media the kids are in right after HN act 1 and before act 2 because of HN VR

[snow mauve]

Kinda but not really

Because of the whole inconsistency thing

Like how in the games

Nicky entered the basement by doing various puzzles (similar to the books)

While in the Animated Series, Nicky just sneaks his way inside house and easily finds the key for the basement while his friend trinity helps him out, but then just immediately gets taken in the basement without getting a chance to look at

Also the act 3 house being real

While the games, it's all just in Nicky's mind

[novel bramble]

True

[snow mauve]

It's the same plot just different narrative and other stuff

[novel bramble]

But I agree with you about the split timelines, I’m more saying the concept of it happening

[snow mauve]

Ah

[novel bramble]

Like of now HN vr is the only solid evidence of the kids being in the game timeline, as his basement is how you see it in act 2

[snow mauve]

Yep

[crude dew]

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2022-01/5/0/asset/fa2f06b6b87b/anigif_sub-buzz-7071-1641344180-17.gif

mfw people base EVERYTHING on the cartoon

[unkempt sleet]

mfw people theorise on HN using HN

[grim vault]

fr

[muted moon]

he was born in raven brooks, when his sister went missing him and his parents probably moved to the big city, and when he finally had the chance, he went back to raven brooks to investigate beatrixs disappearance

[muted moon]

hello engineer, secret neighbor

[unkempt sleet]

HE doesnt include all the rescue squad kids

[muted moon]

AS isnt canon to the games

[muted moon]

hn1, sn, and books all show that the town is much larger than it is in hn2

[ripe berry]

funny thing is
HN2 itself is inconsistent on the size of the town

where are the DLC Locations relative to the in-game map

[wooden hollow]

underground

[unkempt sleet]

because the reason of that is they were thinking about gameplay rather than the canonical town when making the map

[ripe berry]

they couldn't even be bothered to place a png of the School or Library somewhere in the map

[unkempt sleet]

Where would they even place it that would be visible?

[ripe berry]

Idk
maybe somewhere visible from Otto's House to align with how both are near a river

(School)

[crude dew]

mfw people who blocked me on websites still interact

[crude dew]

that's what i was thinking
but then the beta kinda flew out on the window, despite it had a proper introduction cutscene

he looked like an outsider there

but the funny thing is, we're just assuming, will this be confirmed?😬

they should write a finalized storyline and stick to that
just an idea though

[muted moon]

in beta he definitely was an outsider

one of the big parts of reset day is that they dont like people from outside raven brooks

[crude dew]

I liked that more
this way he's kinda Nicky 2.0

[unkempt sleet]

This way he's a narrative parallel with Aaron, the kid he's trying to save

Him being in Raven Brooks before and loosing his sister in a hide and seek game

[muted moon]

aaron wasnt born in raven brooks though

i assume quentin probably was

[steady nest]

Hello neighbor LORE

LORE

[crude dew]

that wedding photo indeed messed things up
unless they moved right after they got married

[unkempt sleet]

There's nothing to suggest that other than the books, we know Ted got married in a church in Raven Brooks thanks to the photo in Patch 9

[crude dew]

I'd risk that even HG Quentin was born there

[muted moon]

in the books ted was constantly travelling around making amusement parks

probably the same in the AS

so aaron probably wasnt born in raven brooks in the AS

[crude dew]

Aaron is a legend in the AS

[unkempt sleet]

Hold on why are we discussing if Aaron was born in Raven Brooks or not

[crude dew]

we saw the mythical creature before him

[steady nest]

Do not search hello neighbor on deviant art

Worst mistake of my life

[crude dew]

iirc in the books they were fleeing because of the failed park rides, no? and their final choice was to return to RB
(grunkle stan vibes khm)
so like. they would've settled if the rides didn't fail ig

[steady nest]

https://tenor.com/view/war-vietnam-ptsd-shell-shock-moment-gif-3022747568394546158

[muted moon]

yeah

[unkempt sleet]

very lore

[muted moon]

they had to move to raven brooks because they didnt really have anywhere else to go

[steady nest]

Bruh

[muted moon]

they were being investigated for the fernweh welt

[crude dew]

ngl this plot point is overcomplicated
I'm not a park designer but couldn't this be done remote or smth
he's specifically designing the rides
the whole family moving with Peterson all the time is weird

[novel bramble]

I never said HE nor SN was canon?

[crude dew]

i feel like both he and sn is unreliable
you don't know what happens and how it happens in reality
and this applies to everything which is from kid perspective

[unkempt sleet]

HE shows explicitly whats real and whats not though

[novel bramble]

HNvr is the most reliable source for the kids

Sorry for the ping

[silver vine]

Maybe they came to Raven Brooks to get married, then went abroad to design parks and came back to Raven Brooks to design golden Apple?

[crude dew]

these are just theories😞
i wanted to know about them as a couple in general
I'm not entirely satisfied with "uhm..they're married and have kids" give me reasons 😭

[zinc jetty]

Thbaks

[muted moon]

im pretty sure in the books diane acted like she had never been to raven brooks before (aaron trilogy)

[shell gull]

It’s the church in HN2 you can tell by the panels on the background and the fact it’s found on top of the church.

[ripe berry]

that's... what he was saying?

[ripe berry]

So the Guest World being the Dream World confirmation in Act 3 was actually us mistaking a dev note for "this is the world from the Guest's Eyes" in the filename for "this is the Guest World referenced in the HN2 Alphas"
Guest World, the Nest, and the Dream World could be 3 different things for all we know
Guest World (like Sandbox Realm) is likely real as people would "enter them"
and just because a door transitions from Real to Dream World in the tutorial to HNVR doesn't mean anything
HE shows reality and imagination getting intertwined, so logically the Dream World being accessed from the real world could be a similar case
and also the Guest Chase is a nightmare according to the files, showing the Dream World to be more mental while the Guest World's more real
and The Nest is somewhere in between as we dunno if Regina's unconscious or not when it appeared
if the Dream World is mental only then the HNVR Ending is basically purely... I guess it'd be worded as the Guest locking Aaron in his own subconscious?
and the "Portals" are Aaron getting quick glimpses of what's actually happening

with it not being Guest World in HNVR we can not verify that everything that occurs in the Dream World is real

the Dream World functions somewhat similarly to Imagination in HE/HNHS where it warps the world but it still has remnants of the real world

so Nicky could be freed still but Aaron isn't actually kidnapped afterwards

allowing for "Aaron" to break the window at the end of HN1 Act 2 still

the Dolls in the deal in HNVR ARE called Voodoo Dolls, which are commonly used to CONTROL other people

and most can agree the HN2 Intro shows Aaron partly being controlled by the Guest so it could have links to HN2 like was claimed

"but Manifestation (or whatever people are calling it nowadays)"
Manifestation is never confirmed
"You're the Raven Man" isn't literal, it's how they both take what people don't deserve
The Guest Statue from HE is missing from AS but the Logo of the Park is still the GAAP Mascot version of the Guest
that one dream where the Guest forms from Ted's Shadow could represent the Guest acting as a "Curse" on the Peterson Family taking them out one by one due to Ted's links to his parents and the Cult

I know someone is gonna try to tear down what I've said here point by point but I don't mind
just sharing ideas

[glad hornet]

ok

[muted moon]

regina was unconscious when the portal appeared

she hit her head

the portal appeared

neighbor woke her up

portal is gone

[ripe berry]

ok yeah but at the same time the Guest needs somewhere to store the items it steals

[muted moon]

the only items we saw in the nest were related to the neighbor

and i guess a photo of flan

[muted moon]

same with hnvr dream world

[ripe berry]

so The Nest and Dream World could both be mostly fake

I mean
it never made sense to me why Nicky was in Guest World or how anyone just... escaped Guest World

but if the Dream World was never real it makes more sense

not saying nothing in the dream world matters

just because HN1 has Nightmare Sequences doesn't mean those sequences don't give lore

same is true with Dream World
pardon me using similar phrasing to FNaF World but
Everything in the Dream World has a effect in the Real World

and vice versa

[muted moon]

the nest definitely was something though

especially since flan appeared after the guest made a new "flan"

not the same flan though

[ripe berry]

that's one of the examples of what I meant

even if the Dream World and the Nest aren't the same they abide by similar logic
and Flan somehow appears in the real world after the Guest makes them in the Nest

[muted moon]

not the same flan, but a dog similar to flan, seemingly with similar or the same memories

[ripe berry]

or Nicky is freed in the Dream World and he escapes in the Real World

[muted moon]

pris and regina both noticed it wasnt flan after they got a good look at "flan"

[ripe berry]

yeah
Still def a similar dog

[ripe berry]

likewise with the Rescue Squad

[ripe berry]

and likewise the Dream World can show things from perspectives the person hasn't already seen
like the Car Crash Dream World Sequence

[muted moon]

nickys dreams

that were never explained

[ripe berry]

oh snap!
you're right

this is the same logic as the Nightmare Sequences from HN1

[muted moon]

hnvr dream world was called nightmare world in the description im pretty sure

[ripe berry]

while not 1:1 depictions, they show events in ways Nicky wouldn't be able to

[ripe berry]

na

the description only says
Multiple playable characters: Switch between characters to outsmart the Neighbor. Each unique character has their own key items and skills. Switch between the perspectives of the Rescue Squad team members at will, solving puzzles and avoiding the Neighbor as you attempt to reach the creepy basement!
Environmental puzzles require creative solutions: You will have to increasingly use your wits to find alternate solutions to a dynamic range of puzzles and challenging environmental obstacles. Many puzzles that may seem unsolvable at first glance require you to use the perspectives of multiple characters in conjunction to overcome them.
Non-linear exploration: Use your own approach to infiltrate Mr. Peterson’s house by alternating perspectives, combining character’s skills to dynamically solve puzzles, uncover hidden mysteries, and reveal new pathways through your environment.
Confront your fears: Experience surreal and haunting revelations as the Rescue Squad learns more about the secrets of the Hello Neighbor universe!

there's a bit I didn't ctrl c ctrl v

but it doesn't say anything about Nightmare/Dream World either

[muted moon]

i remember an older version of it called them nightmare sequences or smth

[muted moon]

there was something relating to nightmare sequences at some point

[ripe berry]

Found it!

"Confront your fears: Experience nightmarish dream sequences and learn more about the secrets of the Hello Neighbor universe!"

[ripe berry]

but it was noticably removed after this

[muted moon]

they probably realised they said too much

[ripe berry]

after checking every single store page has been changed to the new "Experience surreal and haunting revelations as the Rescue Squad learns more about the secrets of the Hello Neighbor universe!"

I actually think it was changed so people wouldn't just dismiss everything as just a dream

and also the said too much thing

wait
I think i remember smth
brb

wasn't this a thing?

this is a segment where we play as AARON being labelled GUEST WORLD

#1246782682755760138 message

uh

[ripe berry]

the way Nikita worded it
it seems Guest World was a Dream World at first so-

but at the same time

#1246782682755760138 message

he never confirms the idea went any further then that

[ripe berry]

oh

oh I'm stupi

[ripe berry]

but uh
there's always this

he says a idea for Guest World (without getting into territory he can't talk about) was to have it be a Dream World the Guest resides in

[muted moon]

they started working on the train idea before hga1 released

the funiculars were originally going to be trains

[ripe berry]

that's not the problem here
the problem is he's saying Guest World as a concept was viewed as a dream realm the Guest lived in

it was one of many artist’s explorations of possible “dream world” where Guest resides.

as in the area changed
but they never changed the core concept

[muted moon]

well they did

in hn2a1 it became an actual dimension with the guest

[ripe berry]

and we access it by going through a "pipe"...
HNVR Tutorial much?

you go into a enclosed space to transition between 2 worlds

[muted moon]

didnt we just kinda of randomly end up in it in hnvr tutorial

[ripe berry]

meanwhile HE has it done out in the open

[ripe berry]

after going through a door

unlike the others who are knocked unconscious

[muted moon]

we also are underground

and with not a lot of air

[ripe berry]

but you can't prove there's a low enough oxygen level to knock someone unconscious when Ted appears to be just fine

and it doesn't change the fact we enter through a doorway
We don't even have the cutscenes needed

[muted moon]

a scared child would be using a lot more air than an unscared adult

[ripe berry]

for all we know Quentin would be knocked unconscious then wake up in the Guest World

[muted moon]

no

he just walks through the pipe and then wakes up in guest world

[ripe berry]

but since we don't have anything animation-wise we can't verify that

[muted moon]

he follows the neighbor

the neighbor would already be in there, so there wouldnt really be anyone to knock him out

[ripe berry]

and there's a cutscene that occurs there yes?

[muted moon]

yes

[ripe berry]

we don't know anything about that cutscene

maybe the Guest shows up and attacks Quentin

[muted moon]

the guest is in guest world

[ripe berry]

wouldn't be the first time

[ripe berry]

can't verify that as we don't have the cutscene data or know what models were loaded into the intended map at that time

[muted moon]

the guest and the neighbor are both already in guest world

[ripe berry]

by the time Quentin's in Guest World the Guest is in Guest World

[muted moon]

after entering the pipe we go to the house and see the "neighbor" being kidnapped by the guest

so the guest is already in guest world

[ripe berry]

implying the Guest is only now aware of Ted being in there

as in the Guest wasn't already in there, but now that it is it's dealing with "Ted"

[muted moon]

the guest is working with ted

ted isnt actually in the attic

or maybe the guest is ted?

[ripe berry]

not saying it's not

just saying we can't verify the Guest's Actions as we don't know what occurs in these cutscenes

we don't know how long of a gap there is between Quentin entering the Pipe and the next Cutscene lore-wise

you can't verify anything without animation data
and we only have access to the raw cutscene triggers

[muted moon]

first cutscene takes place near the real world house
second cutscene is quentin entering the pipe
third cutscene is quentin waking up in guest world
fourth cutscene is either "ted" being kidnapped or right before "ted" is kidnapped

[ripe berry]

again: without the animation data, we can't verify what happens in the cutscenes
we know their order but not what exactly would occur in them

having quentin wake up in Guest World actually makes it more likely someone knocks Quentin out

otherwise why does he need to wake up in Guest World

he should remain conscious the entire time

[muted moon]

i went back and i think i tried to figure out the guest world intro again a while ago

map is NeighborArea_Base_01_TEST
game progress is startgame
bot class is CH_Neighbor_RootMotion_C
starts photoquest
player completes photo quest
player enters first trigger
first cutscene plays
all instances of blocking volumes are moved/deleted
all instances of bp_dummy are moved/deleted
player enters second trigger
second cutscene plays
new map is loaded (TestField_Alpha_01_Base)
bWokeUp is set to true
third cutscene plays
bot is spawned
game progress is set to episode 1
player enters third trigger
final cutscene plays

first trigger is either near the house or on the road
second trigger is entering pipe
third trigger is either near the house or on the road

[ripe berry]

again
with no way to verify what occurs in the cutscenes and only being able to verify what occurs in the gameplay, it's possible to make assumptions for both sides

and WokeUp indicates a player was knocked out the cutscene before

otherwise there's no reason to use the term WokeUp to refer to that

[muted moon]

third cutscene is definitely waking up

[ripe berry]

and if Quentin was for some reason unconscious then nothing needs to change with the Guest World concept

[muted moon]

but the pipe to other world might of just made quentin go to sleep or smth

[ripe berry]

heh
you do realize that's exactly what I'm saying here right

[muted moon]

or maybe something else happened

[ripe berry]

he falls asleep/gets knocked unconscious after trying to enter the pipe, then he "wakes up" in Guest World

[muted moon]

the neighbor still did enter a mysterious portal multiple times

[ripe berry]

but since Quentin gets knocked out when he tries to go in we can't verify what Ted's doing in there

[muted moon]

during his intro tasks, he would do normal stuff around the house, but also he would sometimes enter the pipe, and a minute later leave the portal and drive back to his house

[ripe berry]

Imma hop off
but as I said we can't verify what he's doing without the full original plot in our hands

we only have raw data

[muted moon]

hes waiting for quentin to follow him through

[ripe berry]

Ted drove to the Pipe for a reason
when Quentin goes in, Quentin's knocked unconscious

[muted moon]

since hes trying to trick quentin into entering guest world for some reason

[ripe berry]

or trick Quentin into following him so Ted could knock him out

we don't have cutscenes
we can't verify the reasoning
thus it remains possible

[muted moon]

ted is in the pipe

quentin follows him through

the pipe is still there though, so it isnt a dream world

[ripe berry]

and again
HNVR
entryways CAN lead people into the dream world

[muted moon]

we dont know if hnvr dream world is guest world

[ripe berry]

it's a dream world like the original Guest World Concept yes?

[muted moon]

yeah

[ripe berry]

then it's logical to assume a they would at least somewhat follow the same ideas

or the same kind of logic for entering/exiting them

and we see people enter through Doors and Exit through vents
so going through a Pipe doesn't feel out of place when we already have that

[muted moon]

i dont think that its the same guest world

[ripe berry]

no
it's not
because concepts change overtime

the version of Guest World in the Concept Art isn't the same as HN2A1

doesn't mean they aren't both Guest World

[muted moon]

vr dream world is probably whatever the nest is

[ripe berry]

a Nest...
a HOME... for a BIRD

[muted moon]

the guests lair

[ripe berry]

if the whole world of the Nest is a Nest for the Guest

[muted moon]

or whatever

[ripe berry]

then wouldn't it make sense to call it

the GUEST's WORLD

[muted moon]

they also called the a2 map neighbor area

[ripe berry]

they chose basic names for the locations to refer to in the files

[muted moon]

yeah

[ripe berry]

but the final name WOULD be something like the Guest's Nest or smth

so you can make a throughline from Guest World to the Dream World from HNVR

[muted moon]

they did that since hg, with visitor den/guest lair

[ripe berry]

The Guest's World would be it's "Nest"

anyways I'm done for now as while I don't want the HNVR Dream World to be Guest World
ultimately the throughline is there for them to be the same

[muted moon]

yeah im gonna go too

[ripe berry]

down to the fundamental concept for Guest World

cya

[strange lance]

guest world now isn't what it was then obviously. Its the Nest, a collection of stuff of ted's and the neighborhood. This is established now. The names are interchangable is all

Guestworld: its the guest's world
Nest: its like a birds nest, its a collection of things
Dream world: its very dreamy and you go there when passed/knocked out