navy of galmland

[zenith quartz]

Since vagsland empire fell galmland would getto keep some of the navy .
Since we know vagsland navy is massive so most likely many cruisers and frigates. Not a lot of batteships .

Since galmland is an island nation they would always have good navy compared to the other nations and since they also protect the straits it always means a lot of small crafts.

If galmland dlc happens i wish we would get quality vs quantity navy battles against vagsland. Like they would have many support vessels or cruisers vs your heavily armed battleships and your capital ships aka airship carriers.

https://tenor.com/view/worldof-tanks-gswat-worldof-warships-legends-wot-wows-gif-15241310

[polar quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/russia-soldier-seal-gif-13404156

[zenith quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-star-wars-fleece-force-strong-with-these-gif-15668060

[polar quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/starwars-gif-24406611

[rare nimbus]

For the last time Island nation=/= naval power

most likely valgsland wouldn’t be handing out warships to it former colonies straight away, and in a Galmland dlc we most likely aren’t going to fight valgsland, war isn’t everything.

[hardy jewel]

Island nation = good navy?

Since when?

A nation can choose to not invest in its military, or specifically the naval front

[polar quartz]

True, but considering that galmland is in the csp they would need to have a certain military spending, and due to reasons like csp investment and trade it would be likely tjat the navy would get a majority of the military budget

[hardy jewel]

CSP has never stated to have to a mili spending thresold

[polar quartz]

One of the main reasons morella tries to nationalize the gold mine thing is mention to be that they want to join csp but need a larger military spending

I think the rizian diplo guy is the one that tells us this

[polar quartz]

Hence why one of the reason is a certain military spending

[hardy jewel]

Aghh

I hate Rizia so much

[hardy jewel]

Where is this dialog

The only thing i find is they cant enter CSP because of their poverty

[polar quartz]

I dont remember exactly, but I think it was around the first of these nationalization meetings

[polar quartz]

Might have been that instead of military spending

I might be dement

[rare nimbus]

why though, UC and Valgsland basically have fleets to provide for the entire alliance

[polar quartz]

Ports, staff and necessary facilities needs to be built all over the alliamce members for the fleet to be stationed there

[rare nimbus]

But not ships not shipyards because those are handled by others who have a need for it

[polar quartz]

how so, with sordland and giving port access to csp, it will modernize your own fleet. It is very possible to be the same for galmland. Like increasing fleet power for csp members is aligned with the csp interest such as controlling the trade in vital areas and power projection. Having collaboration between the galmish fleet and other csp members fleet is therefore beneficial. And considering that a certain revenue/gdp treshold is needed (or whatever morella needs to join csp), it isnt farfetched to think a certain military spending is also necessary.

and considering that galmland is an island with csp investment, the fleet could therefore be large and modernize, atleast compared to the galmish economy

[rare nimbus]

Sordlands fleet is still tiny with a overall 60 vessels

[polar quartz]

but they havnt been a member of the csp, even if you are a commie rayne, you are still only in the csp for like 1-2 years in game

galmland has been part of csp much longer

[rare nimbus]

Anyways may I present the modern Royal navy

[polar quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/jack-gif-26886683

[rare nimbus]

It’s tiny compared to its peace time peak in the post ww2 world and that’s with it never having been a colony of another power

I see Galmlands naval security being done by valgsland a due to the time it takes to build up a fleet, the officer corps, and the facilities in exchange valgsland gets to run bases in the islands

[polar quartz]

galmland with internall issues with the csp is just gonna give all naval power and trade dominance to valgsland? i doubt it. They would want some self sufficiency in the military

[polar quartz]

and even if the issues are recent, they would still have a large front on the east they would want to controll

[rare nimbus]

They probably have no other choice due to post colonial economic and political chaos

And if we do have a Galmland dlc building the fleet would make a great story line

[polar quartz]

it sure would

[rare nimbus]

And Galmish Mamifesto seems more recent than Valgish socialism and Malenyevism

[polar quartz]

it is, but there would still have been issues between galmland and valgsland naturally if they are so destroyed by the colonial era that they wouldnt be able to invest in the military

[rare nimbus]

Not when your government was installed by Valgsland

[polar quartz]

and controlling trade in that region is beneficiall, i wouldnt doubt that galmland would have wanted part of that trade controll

[rare nimbus]

Wilhelm Ulbrik doesn’t seem to be the kind to allow a potentially hostile government to his direct south

[polar quartz]

i doubt malenyev would allow war or large conflicts between csp members

[rare nimbus]

That’s exactly why you install a puppet government

[polar quartz]

they dont seem to be much of a puppet government if they create a new form of socialism

[rare nimbus]

Probably because Hegel allowed them to make their own choices

Mostly

[polar quartz]

why? the galmish manifesto clearly creates problems between the csp members, even valgsland wouldnt want their socialism to be threatened

[polar quartz]

well, his form of socialism is like democratic socialism, but he isnt democratic, he just likes some small personal liberties in politics, maybe like country elections and such

[rare nimbus]

Not exactly it’s still a communist ideology and is unlikely to be able to directly challenge them

[polar quartz]

not really, i would think its more of a socialist ideology and there are a lot of different kinds of socialism, and socialism also have some very different kinds from all over the political spectrum

communism is one form of socialism

in a way

[rare nimbus]

From what we know the Galmish Manifesto doesn’t seem to be democratic just pushes autarky and self sufficiency

[polar quartz]

so it isnt democratic socialism, doesnt mean its communism

[rare nimbus]

Self sufficiency for Galmland

[polar quartz]

socialism also have totalitarian forms that isnt communism

[rare nimbus]

Yeah Marxism was just the one that took prominence in Eastern Europe

Well Marxist Leninism

Though a lot of this was by force and instillation of puppet regimes by a single power

[polar quartz]

like pretty much all communist nation not ussr became commie there trough force

hell even ussr became commie trough force

[rare nimbus]

Afghanistan(for awhile), Yugoslavia, China, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia

[polar quartz]

but back to the point, a funny man in germany during the mid 20th century had a form of socialism that wasnt communism that had totatlitarian policies

[rare nimbus]

I love horseshoe theory

[polar quartz]

and just because it is an autarky doesnt mean its not democratic, sollism is also self sufficiency and autarky but its still a democracy, not a great one but still a democracy

[polar quartz]

east europe too

[rare nimbus]

Those were ones not directly installed by the USSR

[polar quartz]

cuba

[polar quartz]

but they still didnt really have a vote if they would be commie, they were forced

[rare nimbus]

Usually because they weren’t allowed on a ballot

[polar quartz]

so forced

[rare nimbus]

By a non communist nation to take violent action

Anyways back on topic

[polar quartz]

but back to the point, galmland could still have a form of democratic socialism, just their own version

hell, totalitarianism could be defined as a democracy

[rare nimbus]

Honestly seeing Valgsland and UC I doubt it

[polar quartz]

valgish socialism is kinda like a form of democratic socialism, and this could also be one of the major conflicts and hence the galmish manifesto is heavily critizied by the csp

[rare nimbus]

The Galmish Manofesto is probably a evolution of Malyvism like Valgish Socialism was neither of which seem to have national level elections

[polar quartz]

democratic socialism doesnt really mean national elections, just some minor "democracy" in small scale, like maybe at most regional elections

and the only parties are like socialist ones

national election would be more like social democracy

[rare nimbus]

Like Soviet elections

[polar quartz]

yeah, kinda like just a picking one socialist candidate or picking another socialist candidate

and democratic socialism could also be like just defined as such just to appease the west irl, like what north korea is doing

[rare nimbus]

Thats still not democratic socialism when the democratic part is a sham

[polar quartz]

democracy is so vaugly defined that i could literally say stalinism is a democracy

maybe even the funny german man could also be argued to be a democrat

(not endorsing him btw)

[rare nimbus]

Except we don’t call them Democratic because they aren’t actually Democratic

[polar quartz]

how so, there is like almost no official definition of democracy

[rare nimbus]

Because they were shams and everyone sees it that way

[polar quartz]

depends on the perspective

election =/= democracy

[rare nimbus]

Election=/= Democratic

[polar quartz]

democracy was defined by lincoln as like something along the lines of "by the people, for the people, with the people". like totalitarian regimes with no election could be defined as a democracy with this definition

democracy doesnt really have a "true" version, its just that western democracy heavily believe in personal freedom and liberty

[rare nimbus]

What are you even arguing at this point

[polar quartz]

idk, i suppose how democratic socialism doesnt need elections to be democratic

so the galmish manifesto could be anything from social democracy (highly unlikely) to pure neo-stalinism

[rare nimbus]

Yep

I’m leaning to the Neo-Stalinist side meaning they better align with UC over Valgsland

[polar quartz]

if you play or the "canon" version?

[rare nimbus]

We know too little to have a cannon version

[polar quartz]

if galmland was the next dlc, then the galmish manifesto is definitely the largest conflict, and if i was playing the dlc i would definitely be a pure 2.0 stalin

[rare nimbus]

I would love for it to be a power struggle between the three ideologies

[polar quartz]

and therefore the galmish manifesto can not be defined to have certain policies/ideologies except for self sufficiency and autarky

[polar quartz]

nah, just kill them with a stalinist manifesto, they cant oppose you when they rot in the galmish gulags

[rare nimbus]

But inferring on the known lore Galmland was likely established as a Regular Malenyvist state

Ulbrik the first Valgish chancellor would be one granting the independence and he was a very diehard Malenyvist

[polar quartz]

btw, do we even know anything of the malenyev manifesto except for it being vaugly based on soviet communism

[rare nimbus]

It has a codex page

[polar quartz]

does it explains its ideologies?

like policies?

[rare nimbus]

https://codex.torporgames.com/malenyevism

"supported founding a vanguard party of the proletariat, proletarian internationalism and a dictatorship of the proletariat based on working class self-emancipation and mass democracy. Malenyevists are critical of the theory of socialism in one country in favor of Malenyev's theory of permanent revolution"

It's close to more Trotskyism if my limited knowledge of Marxist ideologies is right

[polar quartz]

not to be that guy, but that is extremely vauge

[polar quartz]

sounds like it due to like the world revolution thing

[rare nimbus]

also being vangaurdist

[hardy jewel]

I wouldnt call the Sordish fleet small

I think its stupidly big actually

Sordland has 15 battleships

And can expand to 90 ships total, larger than Agnolia. Adding 5 more battleships

[hardy jewel]

Also eh no, not for Vietnam

The 1945/46 General Election was pretty democratic

The Provisional gov was a coalition between various groups, the pro-Chinese, the Socialists and communists, the nationalists, ect.

The Communists led by HCM won in a landslide was due to their popularity as the leading member during the revolution

[polar quartz]

Im talking about East europe

[rare nimbus]

And 15 of 60 ships total is completely lopsided leaving inadequate screens for the battleline not to mention with how neglected the fleet is these might as well be pre dreadnoughts

Also it’s the 50s battleships are dying

The world just hasn’t had a pacific war to show that

[hardy jewel]

Considering the battleships are not replaced even if u fund navy

I dont think its outdated

Sordland also has a very impressive ship building industry considering they can build batteships, submarines, cruisers, destroyers, ect. if u expand in 1-2 year, so its not like they cant replace old ships when u modernise

And u will auto win against Rumburg navy, so in universe its not seen or treated as outdated

Considering everything, Sordish navy is probably the most well funded out of the 3 branches

As Valken has stated, the navy isnt that outdated, it lacks modern equipments like radar and hence cant operate too far from base

[polar quartz]

ofc because rumburg doesnt even have a port in the markian sea, and the closest port they do have in the eastern part of their country is still very far away

[hardy jewel]

No?

If u win against the Rumburg navy, that means u are actively blocking their port and trade routes

[rare nimbus]

So it’s outdated and in dire need or retrofits

[rare nimbus]

Again naval doctrine in the suzerain universe is behind, the age of missile and aircraft is upon them but none have realized it

[hardy jewel]

So theyre not outdated

[rare nimbus]

Except they are and no one knows them

There is a reason a small amount of battleships were built after ww2

[hardy jewel]

Thats not the dictionary definition of it

[rare nimbus]

Anyways if you read the reports you’ll see they basically rebuild the ships from the ground up

[hardy jewel]

No they dont

[rare nimbus]

New turrets new radars new sonars and even, some how, extra hull armor

[hardy jewel]

I quoted it multiple times

[rare nimbus]

And Valken calls the ships out dated and he’s stuck in 1917

[hardy jewel]

Valken strat is pretty good all things consider

[rare nimbus]

It’s not sustainable

[rare nimbus]

And you even presented the evidence

He is calling Sordish designs outdated

[hardy jewel]

He c;early refering to the epuipments of the ships

[rare nimbus]

Which means ships are out dated

[hardy jewel]

Which was upgraded, not replaced

[rare nimbus]

Ships are equipment from the engines to the tertiary weaponary

[rare nimbus]

And most nations retrofit outdated ships so they don’t have to replace them

[hardy jewel]

Yup

But the point is the concept of battleships arent outdated

[rare nimbus]

Even in real life the idea of a battleship was dying since it got started

It just took so long for fleets to realize there’s more cost effective ways to do the job it filled

[hardy jewel]

The current Suzzerain world believes in battleships, thats all that matters

[rare nimbus]

They stupidly believe it’s not outdated

[hardy jewel]

Sure, but the word outdated is comparing a thing to the modern counterpart of it. And both Sordland's current and the modernised fleet use battleships

[rare nimbus]

Honestly I would love for in the war for a high casualty rate for Sordish battleships so we can at least have the death of the battleship

[hardy jewel]

Well, the Rumians focus mostly on trade routes

[rare nimbus]

Most submarine sinkings are after the submarine has attempted the attack first

[hardy jewel]

The Rumian surface fleet are considered pretty good

Valken expressed worry that they may launch naval invasions

[rare nimbus]

Even with new sonars it will take while for Sordish crews to become proficient at deciphering a submarine from a sonars background noise or wild life

Oh yeah whales are big enough they get picked up in sonars

[hardy jewel]

Also Valken was kinda wrong since as i mentioned, funding navy guarantees naval victory

No matter the choice

[rare nimbus]

Which makes navy even more pointless to fund

[hardy jewel]

So either way, i dont think the navy is poorly funded

compare to the other branches, the Sordish navy is in good shape

[rare nimbus]

I think it is, it’s ships are said to be outdated with limited operational capacities and unbalance fleet arrangements all of which will get worst over time

[hardy jewel]

Sordland has a large shipbuilding industry

[rare nimbus]

They do?

[hardy jewel]

Unlike the airforce that can even reach 500hrs of flight without running out of fuel and an army that has 20yrs old tanks

"Sordland’s Minister of Defense, General Iosef Lancea, is reporting that efforts to expand our navy are progressing. According to his report, 5 Conriat-class battleships (Revan, Wrace, Tordera, Eskel, and Markia), 5 Vesord-class destroyers, and 10 Benfi-class light cruisers which brought us to a total of 90 vessels, surpassing the Agnolian Navy."

[rare nimbus]

What are the other 10 ships

[hardy jewel]

Submarines, patrol boats, ect

[rare nimbus]

PTs are boats not ships

[hardy jewel]

Thats what the expanded navy modifier says

"The ambitious expansion plan has resulted in a near doubling of the navy fleet, greatly enhancing its ability to project power and dominate the seas. With increased numbers of warships, submarines, and patrol boats, the navy is now capable of overwhelming enemy fleets and protecting Sordland's maritime interests."

Near doubling is a bit overplayed ngl

[rare nimbus]

Anyways my perspective on the Sordish fleet will be stuck in the pass filled with ships from the Kingdom era and are at best torn apart to shove modern systems that won’t work well

[hardy jewel]

Im kinda certain its actually Soll's

[rare nimbus]

I don’t think it would be, sordland would be recovering from the civil war and large ships are expensive and not something sordland would be able to afford

[hardy jewel]

Due to some comments about the navy age

Soll said sth about the navy is at better shape than when he was rebuilding it in his time if i remember

If u fund navy and he shows up at war meeting

[rare nimbus]

Yeah they probably did lose a few ships in the civil war

[hardy jewel]

Also unrelated but i have a meme take about Soll being a navy guy

#testing-ideareports message

[hardy jewel]

I agree, but my point it in comparison with other branches, its much better

The airforce is in the corner crying and the army has tanks that dont even work in a planned parade

[rare nimbus]

Well they could scrap those battleships for profit and use the funds to build better smaller and more modern ships maybe pioneer the naval missile

[hardy jewel]

Its a miracle that the Sordish airforce didnt get wiped in 3 seconds

[hardy jewel]

Naval missiles seems too much for only a few years

[rare nimbus]

If derdia can get missiles than I think sordland can too

[hardy jewel]

At least they didnt develop it in 1-2 years

[rare nimbus]

I do wish we had more interactions with the individual branches

[hardy jewel]

Anti-submarine operations should be Sordland biggest investment

[rare nimbus]

I would love to change the naval doctrine and approve or deny funding requests

[hardy jewel]

Hmm, Valgsland wouldnt care about that tho

[rare nimbus]

Sordlands geography makes it so you only need a small fleet to protect costal waters

[hardy jewel]

I dont think so, Sordland has a rather large coast

And huge maritime trade routes

[rare nimbus]

But it’s shaped likes a sideways V

You only really need three bases in Coriant, Lackaven and Avory to lock down the markian sea and use benfi for anything needed in the antcean proper

[hardy jewel]

The Markian sea is also notoriously treacherous for some reasons

[rare nimbus]

Doesn’t mean you need more ships

All that means is that the smaller of your ships have to be carful during storms

[hardy jewel]

The navy cant properly control illegal immigration from the sea

despite 90% of them coming from Nibya or Agnolia

Why does Sordland have so many Nibyans?

[rare nimbus]

The agnolian borders also limited in its guards

[hardy jewel]

Sordland alr has relaxed borders

Why would there be many illegal crossing

Its so weird

Agnolia isnt crashing or anything

[rare nimbus]

There was a big wave of economic immigrants from agnolia not long before the main story

[hardy jewel]

The 30s crash

[rare nimbus]

During the late 1940’s, more than a million Agnolians have emigrated to Sordland, escaping poverty and hunger

[rare nimbus]

Also the 1940s one and the ‘51 crash

[hardy jewel]

I swore i remember them recovering

Its kinda weird Agnland its so ez to recover despite such large issues

[supple gorge]

https://tenor.com/view/perfect-popcorn-michael-jackson-gif-26271837

@night lotus you're evil

[night lotus]

Real

https://tenor.com/view/nodnarb804-nodnarb-804-anime-meme-gif-13957265015134105160

[hardy jewel]

And mostly thx to Agnolia supporting their citizens leaving the country to Agnland and actively invests in Agnland

[supple gorge]

the kerfuffle seems to have abated. I demand entertainment!

[night lotus]

We've Reached YapCon level 6

They stopped

😔

[supple gorge]

no more cinema,,,,,

https://tenor.com/view/reasonsimbroke-martin-scorsese-its-not-cinema-not-cinema-bad-movie-gif-24147653

[night lotus]

https://tenor.com/view/sad-sad-moment-bruh-ted-lasso-crying-gif-21885881

[polar quartz]

well they did probably win the war in the markian sea due to the reason i stated, but i dont think they would be actively blocking their port, because as you said with what valken says, the navy lacks necessary equipment to effectively fight far from the base. They would be blocking the trade in the region but probably not anything else

[polar quartz]

and you dont even have to block the ports to win the naval war, destroying capital ships is enough. Like they wont be able to build any more capital ships during the war

[pale hollow]

I think battleships are rather small

[polar quartz]

What do you mean?

Well some battleships can be small and some can be as big as a tiny village