lore-and-universe

[desert badge]

Good gane

[elder zodiac]

Thermo dynamics. Heat from plasma will melt the weapon eventually.

[idle lintel]

no

it can be done scientifically

but yeah plasma is hotter than the surface of the sun i guess. but lighting is also hotter than the surface of the sun 5 times.

[fair field]

Let's talk about boats in the UNSC

[idle lintel]

so duck them

in ancient times

[fair field]

They still use RHIBs

[idle lintel]

funny

but it can work really...

this is why some tales exists

[fair field]

Mojo

[idle lintel]

how easily it can be done

[fair field]

Enough

[idle lintel]

no.

If no one takes responsibility then someone else will.

singular daring and devotion

even if it costs everything

i know money is all that matters really...

even in religiosity

who would really care about maintaining the mantle of real responsibility.

i rather wont waste more time playing around like someone who isnt worthy

[scarlet saddle]

Someone explain the importance of the mantle of responsibility?

All it seems is a giant silver medal the precursors wanted to give out

Which the forerunners threw a massive hissy fit over

I know it's technically the precursors way of showing who's in charge while they're gone but it all seems like a big hassle to me

[tacit charm]

you become the guardian of the galaxy

[naive horizon]

I keep getting warned cause of profanity

i need to fix my potty mouth

i got muted for 2 days hahahaha

I literally cannot help it

[teal sphinx]

It was invented as a way to retcon the forerunner human lore connections from halo 1 and 2

[naive horizon]

dude that lore was so good

it's a shame bungie changed it

and yes it's bungie not 343

[teal sphinx]

I know they changed it in 3

[naive horizon]

a lot of people blame 343 though

[teal sphinx]

It was CRINGE

[naive horizon]

which is really unfair

[teal sphinx]

Humans are forerunners anything different is not canon because I said so

[naive horizon]

That whole aspect is really cool and would've opened up such an interesting story bit for the arbiter

loss of faith but then regaining it

that cut story sounded pretty good

[teal sphinx]

Literally all of sparks dialogue only makes sense if humans are forerunners

[naive horizon]

yeah now the excuse is that he's rampant

[teal sphinx]

Spark being rampant doesn’t make sense as all his action fit with his original programming

He’s function perfectly

[naive horizon]

Well, activating a ring for a local infestation is jumping the gun

[teal sphinx]

Nah

Standard protocol

[naive horizon]

that was like the ultimate last resort

Idk i need to look that up

[teal sphinx]

Nah

Flood

Bad

[naive horizon]

Idk about that

it was kind of said explicitely that the forerunners tried thousands of other things before the rings were fired

and this was pre halo 4

the didact and the librarian were introduced in halo 3 terminals

[teal sphinx]

I know that

Mfw 2 didact

Thank you 343 very cool

[naive horizon]

should've been the halo 5 villain

i like his voice

[stable flower]

Yeah, shame he was killed off by bad writing

[naive horizon]

He was killed off in a comic

which is just...man what a waste

[teal sphinx]

killed off in a comic
also killed four spartan II’s

Jesus 343

Wasting all your resources

[naive horizon]

I would've like to play that

playing that and having a real actual boss fight against him would be cool

bringing cortana back was also really silly

totally takes the punch and meaning of the previous game and throws it out the window

plus what happened to mendicant bias

that would've been a cool thing if he popped up again considering he's the one that teleported chief to requiem

[rare rover]

Can somebody tell me how Sergeant Johnson survive the Halo 1

[naive horizon]

there's a book on that

he has a messed up nervous system that makes him appear as though he isn't food to the flood

he is a spartan 1/part of the orion project which was the prototype for spartans

it was considered a failure

[rare rover]

I know there's a book on it I just didn't feel like reading it when I know I can come on here and ask somebody and that's has read it and they can just give me the simple answer in a small paragraph or less

[naive horizon]

Uh hm

Well what i said there certainly applies

[humble yacht]

Halopedia

[naive horizon]

hiddenxperia reviewed the campaign and is calling it a masterpiece

but i'll have to play it to believe it

[ornate geode]

Does he call it iconic at least 3 times? Will not watch otherwise

[twilit linden]

He has what UNSC & ONI called the Boran Syndrome

Which is a fabrication of a human disease that came from the ORION PROJECT Augmentation results in change of the DNA

That’s how he was able to survive the encounter on the first Halo ring

[humble yacht]

Not quite

Joe Staten didn’t like that so it was retconned to be that Johnson was just too good at shooting and the flood couldn’t catch him

[twilit linden]

It was mentioned in Halo First Strike with how Johnson survived the flood.

[humble yacht]

Yea and then that was retconned with the graphic novel

Joe didn’t want anyone to be immune to the flood

[twilit linden]

Kinda too late with that

[humble yacht]

How so

[twilit linden]

It kinda sorta already stuck to the lore regardless of who revises it. It’s literally already written in stone unless they force Halo First Strike to not be canon.

But again. It’s based on my opinion since I’ve read First strike before any revisions were made

[humble yacht]

It was retconned, like I said

[unique rune]

It's really not set in stone. Boren's syndrome being potentially Flood-resistant is only ever mentioned in First Strike, and even then it can just be reframed as Halsey suspecting it could have helped, because it's not like it's something she can be absolutely certain of.

[humble yacht]

https://www.halopedia.org/Avery_Johnson#cite_note-38

[gilded mason]

And later things like HW2 Phoenix Logs have reiterated that there is no such thing as making yourself immune to infection.

[humble yacht]

Even hunters weren’t immune

Or sharquoi

[naive horizon]

man i keep cursi g

i cant help it

im gonna get perma banned someday

[jagged pelican]

Just finished the Kilo Five Trilogy, what a masterpiece

[wispy prawn]

I need some book help what order do I read the onyx series

[humble yacht]

Release order

Ghosts, then Legacy

[wispy prawn]

Ok

Thanks

[solid remnant]

Ok. General chat doesn’t care about this but I know the lore people will. I found my original copies of Fall of Reach, The Flood, first strike.

[humble yacht]

K

[solid remnant]

Pre-Halo Reach Retcon copies.

[humble yacht]

Lol

[solid remnant]

Like OMG. Jumping up and down. I thought these were lost. It’s like finding an original cut of A New Hope.

I wish I could post a pic

Glorious. Dumbstruck.

And an original blue Spartan action figure.

The kid in me is crying right now.

[wispy prawn]

Nice

[solid remnant]

@wispy prawn I mean they are battered from YEARS of rereading in highschool. But they are the originals.

And a halo graphic novel original edition too. And a mass effect art book.

[wispy prawn]

Neat I have the copies on my phone but it’s cool you got the OGs

[solid remnant]

I wish I could send a photo.

Truely a golden age relic.

[wispy prawn]

Send it to a dm and then copy the media link and you can paste the link here

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/917502636419346542/917502782959927346/FAF0DA2F-8038-4F36-9167-9305F78B774A.jpg

There’s your picture

[solid remnant]

Thanks.

Hope people enjoy this find.

[blazing sage]

Beautiful

[solid remnant]

Years of reading in highschool. Those books traveled far with me on school trips.

I also found in this box my copy of all three lotr books fellowship - return.

As well as my highschool year books.

[twilit linden]

I’ll stick to my opinion as stated.

[prime aspen]

just curious whats everyones opinions on the most superior spartan generation (variations within each generation included)

[twilit linden]

I’ll stick with the SII’s since they have similarities to the ancient greek spartans just major difference in timeline

[sonic iron]

To think the prophets died and the stinky banished think they have claim.

It’s a shame they don’t follow the great journey

[naive horizon]

yeah chief is in fortnite but is atriox? nope

true cringe

[sonic iron]

Indeed

[naive horizon]

some banished actually do follow it though

the keepers

[sonic iron]

Yeah

I reckon the elites will turn on the banished

The assassins

[naive horizon]

their leader certainly doesn't believe in the journey

[sonic iron]

No

[naive horizon]

but i don't know anything about the silent shadows

[sonic iron]

I wonder if there will be Scarabs

The Banished do use all the covenant technology still

[blazing sage]

That would be very cool.

[sonic iron]

Really hurts to see the Elites bend for the Brutes after what they did to them

[naive horizon]

the banished weren't affiliated with the covenant brutes since they existed far before

[sonic iron]

Well it’s in the middle of the covenant era I’m sure

[humble yacht]

What

[naive horizon]

Sure but the banished existed before the schism

[sonic iron]

When they left because the prophets sent them on suicide missions I’m pretty sure

Brutes are apes anyways

[humble yacht]

That was a very odd way to phrase that

Brutes are closer to bears

[sonic iron]

They are 🦍 now

[naive horizon]

there would be no reason for them to have animosity, if anything they would have things in common

betrayed by the prophets

[humble yacht]

Brutes and elites had an unfriendly rivalry even before the schism

[naive horizon]

yeah but nothing like the schism

and being betrayed by the ones they followed is something that would bring them together

[sonic iron]

Yeah that’s why Tartare sauce wanted to become apart of the guard and make the Elites looks unfit to escort the Prophets

[naive horizon]

retartarus

pop tartarus

[sonic iron]

It’s sad to see the new breed of elites serve the banished

Lmao

[naive horizon]

they're more like mercenaries

[sonic iron]

Retartus, the Prophets have betrayed us

Yeah

[naive horizon]

well if they're same as hw2's elites

[sonic iron]

Except they want to dominate everything p much

I reckon warthog run would play when Tartarus takes a 💩

The Brutes don’t have a diet and that is the problem

Poor Grunts that probably get eaten by the Brutes. This I can’t confirm, but it’s likely.

[naive horizon]

for sure

[tacit charm]

lol

[naive horizon]

the brutes would play around with marines like toys

they're pretty brutal

heh

[sonic iron]

Play around with me Atriox 🥵

[twilit linden]

There’s a person in the Xbox HCC that is conscripted for Atriox and that dude was a tank and hard as hell to beat

[sonic iron]

Shame that he won’t be in infinite

Maybe some mentions, but I think that’s it. 😦

[twilit linden]

That’s a big shame

[sonic iron]

Ye

Well tomorrow is the 8th and it couldn’t come sooner

[humble yacht]

Think your time zone is a little too far ahead

[twilit linden]

I was about to say lol

I still have less than 2 days

[tight tundra]

Hi

[wraith thorn]

Before we jump into the campaign, real quick

Is Mendicant Bias still on 07?

[humble yacht]

No

[wraith thorn]

Like, last known location, as of- -

[humble yacht]

Last seen on Installation 08

As of 2552

[wraith thorn]

Wait what? I could have sworn it was either there or the Ark, Jesus am I that off?

[humble yacht]

Before that, he was locked up on the ark for 100,000 years

Zeta halo was the location of his original core facility, but he could transfer himself into a mobile body which is how he got around

[wraith thorn]

How did he wind up on 08 again?

[humble yacht]

It’s complicated

[wraith thorn]

Sorry for the newb lore questions, I swore I had it down

[humble yacht]

MB was split into pieces and transported to the ark as punishment

[wraith thorn]

Yeah, where he was entombed, I remember up to there for sure

[humble yacht]

After being in prison for a while, one of those pieces somehow boarded a key ship and left the ark

[wraith thorn]

That ship became high charity's power base

[humble yacht]

Then crashed on the San Shyuum homeworld

[vast edge]

What does a flood infected jackel look like?

[humble yacht]

For 3000 years that piece lived in the keyship, referred to the covenant as a Luminary

[wraith thorn]

I'm following so far.

Chief took that ship to 'finish the fight'

[humble yacht]

During the great schism, Truth took the keyship to the ark, where the piece reunited with the rest of Mb, reconstituting him

Then MB transferred himself to I08 to help chief

[versed helm]

Probably really gross

[wraith thorn]

THAT EXPLAINS THE

MESSAGES

OH

[humble yacht]

It is implied that MB slowed the collapse of the ring so Chief could get back to the Dawn

[versed helm]

What messages

[humble yacht]

The halo 3 terminals

[wraith thorn]

^

[versed helm]

Oh there were terminals?

[humble yacht]

Yes

[versed helm]

Oh yeah the orange orb things

[wraith thorn]

So did Mendicant Bias get starched on 08?

[humble yacht]

MB fully expected to die there

[wraith thorn]

😮

[humble yacht]

Since the ring broke apart, that seems likely

[versed helm]

Off topic question

[wraith thorn]

I see.

[versed helm]

I’m not sure if this constitutes as lore per say

Why does the mark 7 look more like the mark 5 than an evolution of the mark 6?

[humble yacht]

Looks like neither to me

Oh you mean Mark V[b]

[versed helm]

Yes that one I forgot that there’s two versions of it

[humble yacht]

The original Mark VII (gen1) was modeled after the Mark V[b] configuration

[versed helm]

Ah okay that makes sense

[gaunt oak]

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[versed helm]

Uh

[wraith thorn]

So I just got banned for a spoiler while asking about an AI's last known location lmao

You know MB's counterpart?

I don't know his last known location.

I don't know why they reverse the ban so quickly without warning.

[sullen ridge]

don't think anything about offensive bias' last known location is mentioned

[tacit pecan]

*by. Referred to by the Covenant as a Luminary.

[inner basin]

Didn't MB also cause Chief's half of the Dawn to head towards Requiem or is that just a fan theory? Or am I completely wrong and there's another explanation out there?

[gilded mason]

It's implied, but was never outright stated explicitly.

As far as I know.

[wraith thorn]

I believe this is implied, yeah.

Oh wow. That just clicked.

[inner basin]

Ahh okay, that's what I thought, but wasn't sure

[deft brook]

Is there any news on what race the crashed ship from the halo:CE terminal is from?

[gilded mason]

Nope

[deft brook]

always intrigued me ever since i saw the terminal. Hope we'll get answers soon

[unique rune]

I seriously doubt it'll ever be answered.

[gilded mason]

^

[ivory stump]

One question: Does Halo Infinite and Halo Wars 2 in the same timeline?

[unique rune]

Uh, yeah.

Halo doesn't do alternate timelines in any meaningful capacity.

[ivory stump]

@unique rune What about the Halo Wars? It was 19 years before the events in CE happens

[unique rune]

I mean, yes?
It's still part of the same timeline as the other games and the vast majority of Halo media, set in 2531, 21 years before CE in 2552.

[ivory stump]

So what happened in that 21 years?

[gilded mason]

The war.

[unique rune]

The Human-Covenant War happened?

[versed helm]

Stuff happened probably explained on HW's timeline and on novel/books

[burnt pulsar]

Master chief punting grunts

[terse lava]

Think the word they are looking for is "time period" not timeline

[burnt pulsar]

Yes but still Chief is punting grunts

[versed helm]

Does each Halo ring have a unique design for their outer surface, or are they all the same?

[dense hornet]

is master chief?

[unique rune]

For the most part they seem to be pretty similar in current depictions but it honestly just changes depending on which source you reference.

[gilded mason]

No idea.

Even if we did know, this isn't the place to ask.

[versed helm]

I just realized halo wars is technically the 1st halo

[wicked citrus]

What happens when the Covenant glasses a planet?

[versed helm]

It goes boom

[gilded mason]

The surface of the areas hit get turned to glass, basically

[cosmic zinc]

super heats the surface turning it all to glass

[wicked citrus]

About what I expected tbh

[silk adder]

Why aren't there humans in the covenant?

[gilded mason]

Because the whole point was that Truth didn't want anyone finding out that humans were Reclaimers, and what that meant.

[silk adder]

...and what did that mean I'm kinda out of the loop

It's been awhile

[unique rune]

It meant that everything that the Covenant stood for was false, basically.

[gilded mason]

It was revealed to Truth that humans were Forerunners that were left behind on the Great Journey (as far as he assumed). People being left behind and not becoming divine after the rings fired meant it wasn't a guarantee for all, antithetical to Covenant doctrine. So to prevent anyone finding out this fact that would fracture the Covenant and take away his power, he declared war to prevent it from ever getting out.

[silk adder]

So the humans were left by the forerunners after the rings were fired but so was every other species right?

[gilded mason]

Yes, in actuality

[silk adder]

But no one really knows that?

[gilded mason]

After the war, more people knew about that, but not during.

[silk adder]

Ahh...

[hard night]

hElLo

[silk adder]

My eyes have been widened

[gilded mason]

Although, I just remembered

It was recently revealed that there was a growing Covenant movement during the war that recognized humans as some sort of inheritors to the Forerunners. As you'd expect, Truth had all the members he could find eradicated.

[silk adder]

Wasn't there like a mantle or something

That was given to humanity?

[hard night]

mantle of responsibility?

[silk adder]

Ig?

[gilded mason]

Yes, the Covenant knew about it, but just that it existed. And they took it upon themselves to sort of "hold" it.

[hard night]

the most advanced species in the galaxy would have to take care of the rest

[silk adder]

So it's not really an object but a commanding rule?

[gilded mason]

Yeah, it's just a concept

[hard night]

INB4 cortana came and took it

[silk adder]

And let her be the dominant forcce

[gilded mason]

It's basically "Rule 1: Might makes right"

[hard night]

I accidentally got Halo infinite spoiled and i am scarred

wont talk about it

you guys will know tomorrow anyway

[silk adder]

I refuse any spoilers

[hard night]

i just need

the arbiter

to return

we have literally seen more banished characters

than UNSC characters

in trailers so far

[versed helm]

I hope fireteam Osiris got banned

Except for buck

[hard night]

i feel like they deserve another chance

but i def want blue team more than osiris

[silk adder]

I hope my man Lasky is ok

[hard night]

oh yea

hes one of 343s best additions

I hope the Infinity is repairable

it was cool having the "we are the giants now" feeling

[silk adder]

Yes

[stable flower]

Seems they destroyed it (or otherwise, grounded it) as an excuse to revert the UNSC to underdogs.

[silk adder]

Yea wasn't it plowed through in the trailer?

[ashen meteor]

Btw has anyone here think about the reach ending cinematic that shows reach being recolonized in 2589?

[stable flower]

Yeah it was.

[versed helm]

And noble 6 living a simple life as a farmer

[hard night]

clearly Noble six got out of the cave

and went back to ONI where he now continues to work as an assassin

[versed helm]

:c

[hard night]

now i only wonder

how in the galaxy did

the banished defeat the guardians? Clearly they arent present around the rings and theres rumours of a crashed guardian on the ring

[versed helm]

Clearly they used a skewer

They're op af

[near slate]

Lol

[tulip moss]

As far as humans being reclaimers that was explained in the book “contact harvest” when truth realized the covenants entire philosophy was a misinterpretation of a word, and the great journey wasn’t real. If that would have gotten out it would have destroyed the covenant because all of the species had a similar belief in which they could work together to achieve under the prophets guidance.

The forunners handed down the mantle of responsibility to the humans before they fired the halo rings resulting in their extinction. Basically the race that would watch over the galaxy.

So reclaimer refers to the humans because the humans hold the mantle of responsibility.

[silk adder]

But if the mantle isn't a physical object how is it given?

If it's just a title are they really supposed to take action?

Is it a blessing?

[tulip moss]

That’s hella complicated it’s essentially something that the primordials created (creators of the Universe) which they entrusted to the forunners, which the forunners entrusted to the humans.

Kind of like a blessing in simple terms yes

[silk adder]

But if humanity were to be overcome the mantle will be surrendered

[golden hawk]

The Mantle of responsibility is mostly a title given to whichever race the precursors saw as the next caretakers of the Galaxy

[silk adder]

Ahh

[tulip moss]

Which is a giant plot hole, because the banished are not either aware of or care about the mantle so it’s a plot hole

[silk adder]

You guys are great, thank you

[tulip moss]

Now the cortana thing with halo 5 she wanted AI’s to hold the mantle because she saw humans as insufficient due to their lifespans and mental capability’s. That’s why she’s using the guardians to watch over worlds to act as the “holder of the mantle”

[silk adder]

I wonder how that's gonna play into infinite

[tulip moss]

She’s truly trying to bring peace and end all war and hunger but humans and other races view that as tyranny so it’s all up to interpretation. A lot of the worlds she “controls” have all of their problems solved and infinity is on the run because humanity needs to be free because this is America

[golden hawk]

Honestly I am having a hard time even coming up with a way for the mantle to connect into infinite

[tulip moss]

That’s why I said it was a plot hole

[golden hawk]

honestly

[tulip moss]

It’s not even mentioned in the newer book shadows of reach

Divine wind is the newest book but I haven’t read it yet

[golden hawk]

I haven't either

do you think flood will be coming back in the game?

[tulip moss]

It’s possible because the rings had holding and testing faculties for flood which you see in the mission 343 guilty spark in halo 1

Also we know that the flood already took over zeta halo once in the past but we will see

[golden hawk]

Can't wait, we havent seen them in awhile. Zeta Halo has a real dark history. Maybe their will be a mission where we see the palace of pain

[hard night]

yo

i mean we had atriox and banished fight the flood on the lesser ark

but i am not exactly sure how exactly they plan to bring the flood to zeta halo

if they even bring them in

[elder zodiac]

The gravemind almost corrupted Cortana before. What's to say that it couldn't gain control of a guardian.

[hard night]

jesus christ gravemind controlling a guardian

that sounds terrifying

also

during the period the UNSC was getting defeated

where exactly were Arbiter and his forces

they won against the covenant on sanghelios in Halo 5

[sullen ridge]

stuck on sanghelios

a guardian was on the far side of the planet

[hard night]

welp, I sure hope they come in

I want to see the rivalry between brutes and elites

hopefully it gets more elaborated on

[sullen ridge]

unless the guardian around sanghelios got recalled i doubt arbiter his forces would be present in large numbers or even present at all

[elder zodiac]

Where's Jorge and his slippage bomb when u need him... rip

[hard night]

if cortana got deleted

who is controlling the guardians?

[sullen ridge]

no idea

[versed helm]

Hmm

[frosty swan]

I wonder if in Infinite, we'll get traces of what the Created or Prometheans are doing, apart from the Banished side of things? 🤔 (Didn't really play Halo 5 so no clue if they signified if Prometheans/Forerunners are doneions for now.

[ripe turret]

I think keeping the precusors somewhat vague and unexplained is better than trying to flesh it out

[zenith epoch]

Zeta Halo is like the most significant ring connected to the Flood, I really hope it's in the campaign

if it isn't I'll be one sad camper

[versed helm]

Hey, I realized something weird. Did the MA5B Assault Rifle seriously carry 60 rounds of 7.62x51 or is the wiki joshing me rn

[frosty swan]

Of course, I don't mean give me a dictionary on what workout routine they do, I just wanna know if they plan to tell more stories with them again.

[vast edge]

So what was the whole gravemind/cortana moments about in Halo 3? I understand logic plague, but I don't understand gravemind saying that he is being tortured

[vast edge]

I'm not too happy about them fleshing out the forerunners. They were cooler when they were mysterious and powerful

[frosty swan]

Hmmm I respectfully disagree in the sense that I like the variation. Maybe as an entirely different faction? But then that would be bizarre and out of nowhere really. 🤔

But I get why you'd be unhappy with the mystique having a lens on it.

[vast edge]

Yea it was just cooler to learn about the forefunners through the things they left behind instead of knowing their personal drama societal structure

[feral willow]

I watched Chief kill Rick Sanchez while Spider-Man no-scoped iron man while he was flying all the way to The Daily Bugle

🥸

[vagrant lagoon]

Does Master Chief know languages other than English?

[frosty swan]

Fair enough. I respect that.

[balmy helm]

he might know a few wort worts

[vagrant lagoon]

True.

I was thinking more like languages from Earth, but he might actually have picked up a little Sangheili by now

[sullen ridge]

when you're worting at the demon and the demon worts back

distressed wort

[vagrant lagoon]

I could imagine that would be a little terrifying

[unique rune]

It has a 60-round magazine in Halo CE. Just kinda one of those things you have to avoid thinking about too hard.

[stuck ivy]

Just a weird thought, given the Librarian rapidly unlocked 117's genesongs and what not, I wonder if we would see something speshul when campaign opens.

[frosty swan]

Snee snoo snau sne de boop. WORT WORT WORT!

[true narwhal]

Might sound dumb but correct me. Wasn’t the UNSC supposed to fight humans and not Covenant?

[sullen ridge]

in a certain sense yes

[unique rune]

The UNSC was just the military arm of the UEG. So you could argue that they were created to fight other humans and any other threats to the UEG.

[humble yacht]

Before the covenant, humans hadn’t met aliens

So yes, before the HCW, all human military ops were against other humans

Spartan IIs we’re originally created to quell insurrections. It was merely coincidence that they were around to fight the covenant

[limber dagger]

a very lucky coincidence. If they found us at any other time, we would have been wiped out quickly.

[sullen ridge]

that would've happened anyways

with or without spartans

onto reason it didn't happen was because the covenant was falling apart

[limber dagger]

Eh, I mean its a bit of a hard argument to make. We fought them for 30 years. Spartans definitely helped us not be glassed entirely based on their missions.

[true narwhal]

So when did the covenant come in to the picture then? (I’m slow I’m extremely sorry)

[limber dagger]

They accomplished things thta would have been impossible otherwise

[limber dagger]

2525. the games start in 2552

[true narwhal]

Ohhh

I’m guessing Spartans were made to kill covenants.

[limber dagger]

there are over 30 novels as well that expand the whole story and lore.

lol no they were not

[true narwhal]

oh

see I’m dumb okay. I don’t know the lore behind halo even tho I played the campaigns :c

[limber dagger]

lol i dont think youre dumb. if you havent read the books, you would have no way of knowing anything about the expanded universe.

unless you just sit there and read halopedia i guess

[true narwhal]

I tried finding a book but could never find one

[limber dagger]

spartans were made to fight humans originally and to keep humanity from falling into a massive civil war

[true narwhal]

then John came into the picture

[limber dagger]

to be used for surgical strikes to keep the insurrection at bay and unable to wage allout war against the unsc

[true narwhal]

I’m joking

[limber dagger]

then genocidal aliens came into the picture and their purpose changed lol

[true narwhal]

Did he?

Oh

[tidal plinth]

The aliens came into the picture only until multiple planets went dark I think

[limber dagger]

just harvest

1 planet went dark after making first contact with the covenant

[tidal plinth]

Yeah

After that it was reach right?

[limber dagger]

if you are actually trying to read the books i wont spoil anything. but the actual first contact between humans and the covenant was peaceful. then it all went down the drain.

[limber dagger]

no reach wasnt until 30 years later almost.

[tidal plinth]

Oh

[limber dagger]

harvest was in 2525. Reach was 2552.

[sullen ridge]

would've happened quicker without them that's true

[tidal plinth]

Oh spirt was stationed above harvest right?

[limber dagger]

yeah thats the only point im trying to make. we would have stood zero chance without the spartans. spartans gave us some hope to hold them off long enough to come up with a solution. the covenant falling apart was more luck than anything.

its entirely a guess how long we would last without spartans, but it would certainly be less than 28 years.

[limber dagger]

what do you mean spirit?

[tidal plinth]

Spirit of Fire

[limber dagger]

oh no. Spirit of Fire was somewhere else entirely. There is a whole lot of story that you would need to catch up on. IF youre just trying to get the basics of the lore before infinite comes out, just search up "halo timeline explained" on youtube and watch a video or two

it would take hours to write it all out here. but you can get the jist of it in a 30 min youtube video.

[tidal plinth]

True

[limber dagger]

but no, the Spirit of Fire and Harvest are not connected in any meaningful way in the lore. two entirely separate stories.

[tidal plinth]

Well In the lore and game spirit of fire was part of the battle of harvest which took 5 yrs

They were apart of admiral coles third fleet

Aka battle group d

[limber dagger]

if the spirit of fire was at harvest, i just wasnt aware of it. Let me look.

oh yes it did, what do ya know.

[tidal plinth]

Cpt. Cutter talks about it in the beginning of the game lol

[limber dagger]

alright my bad. i havent actually played halo wars. i dont like RTS games.

[chrome blaze]

Halo wars arbiter was a giga chad

[ebon pike]

yep

[limber dagger]

never knew it was actually there. regardless, the main story surrounding the spirit of fire is several years after in 2531, which is why i said that it isnt really involved with the harvest story in any meaningful way

but yeah, learning something new everyday lol

[ebon pike]

man I need a Tactical RTS game like company of heroes but in Halo Universe

[tidal plinth]

In this lore channel we’ll all learn something new

[chrome blaze]

Would recomend lotr battle for middle earth 2... but it not halo

[chrome blaze]

Ima learn i know verry little of the lore

[tidal plinth]

How much lore do you already know?

[chrome blaze]

Only in game lore

[ebon pike]

Do you know all the Good Arbiters had Golden Armor and bad Arbiters had Silver.

[chrome blaze]

H5 arby was cool

[tidal plinth]

But the halo 3 arbiter had silver armor

[chrome blaze]

I know its...meh

[tidal plinth]

He’s the same one in Halo 5

[chrome blaze]

Exept he looks cooler in h5

[ebon pike]

Yep Because Arbiter was still in his redempetion arc

[tidal plinth]

Yeah he was after letting the humans destroy a halo ring

[unique rune]

That’s… not how that works.

[ebon pike]

But seriously There is a forerunner version of Dumb AI installed in Arbiters Armor, All the Arbiters that had opposed Covenant or challenged Prophets had golden Armor, but ones that supported them had silver.

[unique rune]

…None of that is true.

[ebon pike]

i am 100 % sure but i read it somewhere, whether it was a fanfiction, theory or official cannon. idk

[unique rune]

That sounds like either fanfiction or nonsensical speculation.

[royal river]

I haven't read anything that suggest Arbiters have AI's. That's interesting

[unique rune]

Arbiter body armor has never been noted as supporting AI function. And with the Covenant’s strict policies toward limiting AI usage and ability, they’d almost certainly never use it for something as frivolous as “it makes the armor change color if the guy does or doesn’t like the Covenant”.

[ebon pike]

it was more like basic programing.

[royal river]

Are you saying their armor was more like "smart" armor? No real Ai just integrated tech

[ebon pike]

Yep

[royal river]

Ah ok

[unique rune]

Their armor doesn’t do any of that

[royal river]

I still haven't seen anything that would suggest it had smart capabilities other than the tech we already know about like sheilding

[ebon pike]

yo check this Fel Chavamee too had Golden Armor.

[royal river]

Interesting concept tho

[unique rune]

It has energy shields, active camouflage, and likely some minor strength enhancements. No piece of Halo media has ever indicated anything beyond that.

[royal river]

Right

That's what I'm saying too

[ebon pike]

well you gotta to agree its a good concept

[unique rune]

It’s really not

It doesn’t make much sense and doesn’t add anything meaningful

[versed helm]

this is gonna sound like a really dumb lore question but in a post-covenant universe, how much is the apr on a ghost bought brand new

[royal river]

LOL

[ebon pike]

My man asking real questions

[royal river]

A lifetime commitment

[versed helm]

cause im like 99% sure a spartan or marine trying to buy one is like, well above 28-40% but i need to know the rate for civvies

[royal river]

You sign your life away getting one of those lol

[ebon pike]

its depend on cost + Import duties + dealership

[royal river]

All you gotta do is be enslaved by the Covenant, easy lol

[versed helm]

oh i mean like lets say im buying one off from a sangheilos dealership

[royal river]

LOL

You might find a repurposed one for a very low cost lol

Spoils of war and all that. Things left behind then reused/repurposed for civi use after the war is over type of deal. I'd think it be pretty cheap lol

[nimble laurel]

Just ask Jay Leno he probably got one for a good price lol

[royal river]

Hahahaha probably

[versed helm]

Yeah

[ebon pike]

Lets just say a Ghost cost around 100,000 Credits, assuming Dealership is honorable they will probably charge you around 10% per annum EMI, now duration depend upon you but sooner the better, What you need to watch is import duties and registration which push the price up to additional 50%

[versed helm]

Now I am thinking about the price of the infinity

[royal river]

LOL oh gosh that be expensive

[ebon pike]

Probably in High Billions or low Trillions

[nimble laurel]

Don't think I got about 76 trillion in the bank

[versed helm]

Well the infinity was a arch to protect the humanity and go to other galaxy if the covenant invaded the earth

[ebon pike]

Hey i just realize since Galavy has became some kind of free of all, there a chance that we might face human enemies in future games

[versed helm]

The rebels?

[tacit charm]

when you say ghost do you mean just yo average run of the mill cov ghost?

cause im pretty some dude were auctioning a harvester for the same price

[versed helm]

I have an idea to make a game that a group of odst’s escape from the flood

[ebon pike]

Yep Rebels, Mercs, Human Banshied Clans and Pirates

[nimble laurel]

known our luck it would end up like aliens fireteam @versed helm

[royal river]

Considering the Spartans were OG created to fight insurgents wouldn't be a far stretch but I don't think we will see it

Cause that was a dark period in the halo-verse that even Halsey doesn't like talking about

[versed helm]

Yeah even new Mombasa was so chaotic

[royal river]

I would LOVE another ODST game @versed helm

[versed helm]

X2

I like ODST they are really cool

[royal river]

The first one was just so special

[versed helm]

Yeah

[ebon pike]

Do you think that UNSC will try to slightly Augument their regulars troops and Artificially Evolve Humans since 1 vs 1 we lose against the Brutes and Sanghelies

[royal river]

Maybe not augmentation but I can see them offering and providing enhanced armor abilities

Augmentation, altho the process has become more refined and less invasive, is still a lengthy and expensive process

[versed helm]

Do you know that in a novel the odst that we played in halo 3 died from the rebels

[jagged basin]

bruh

[nimble laurel]

@royal river same here odst qas a change of pace and added that extra layer to the lore

[royal river]

It really did!

It was different and unique. We got to be a regular human which played so different than what we were used to. The atmosphere was poetic and intriguing. It's such a good game.

[limber dagger]

I can see them augmenting regular soliders with the enhancements to their neurons and eyesight, but not the bone grafts and muscle enhancements.

So basically, the less extreme augmentations sure. Especially as those augmentations are way less invasive and more "mass produced"

[royal river]

I don't know. I don't think they would spend the money on augmentations for the adverge Jane/Joe. Too much of a risk for caonon foddar. But who knows

[limber dagger]

Pretty sure the overall plan by ONI was to slowly but surely expand the pool of suitable Spartans to the entire general population thru improvements in augmentation techniques anyways. But yeah thats all just speculation.

[ebon pike]

i am thinking slightly more genetically so each each generation we are slightly stronger just like on average A modern human is stronger, taller than Medieval counterparts

[limber dagger]

maybe not for every rank and file marine, but ODSTs or anyone else in the special forces umbrella, sure.

[royal river]

True @plush breach

I can see that for the special forces sure I'll agree with that

[versed helm]

Yeah the hell jumpers where such a good unit during the war that many of them become Spartans

[royal river]

Oh my gosh I love the Helljumpers!

[limber dagger]

Eventually, the surgeries to augment neurons and eyesight could conceivably be perfected and optimized such that it is no more expensive or invasive as the standard surgery that all service members get when they get their neural implant.

Might take a while, but it is certainly possible.

[royal river]

I agree

[versed helm]

Me to

[limber dagger]

so it could eventually be rolled out to rank and file marines, but for the foreseeable future, probably just Spartans and other special forces.

[versed helm]

We have buck that is one of my favorite characters

[ebon pike]

I think ODSTs are done, thet have become obsolete

[limber dagger]

No way. OSDTs will always be around.

Spartans don't make ODSTs anymore obsolete than Navy SEALs do to standard marines in today's militaries.

[nimble laurel]

That's because odsts are snake eaters who else would wanna jump from orbit in a glorified coffin

[limber dagger]

They have entirely separate roles.

[nimble laurel]

Plus if I mind right odsts we're referred to as imps or minor demons by the covies

[versed helm]

I agree

[sage crypt]

Mona Lisa is the scariest halo lore I know of, if you think there’s something else let me know

[ebon pike]

ODSTs are part of Marines just specialized in Shock Combat but if you are qualified to become to ODSTs you are qualified to become to Spartans.

[versed helm]

Yeah

[limber dagger]

Not sure, just saying from a military strategy point of view, having one set of elite soliders does not diminish the utility or effectiveness of another type of solider.

They are meant to work together, not replace each other.

You use spartans to take out leaders and sabotage enemy equipment. After that is accomplished, you use your marines and ODSTs to storm an objective and hold it, capitalizing on the confusion and disarray created by the Spartans.

[nimble laurel]

would anyone else think mona Lisa would make a good one off anime style movie

[royal river]

I agree

[limber dagger]

That is just a generalized example, but i think it gets the point across.

[ebon pike]

Startegy is viable only if you have less number of spartans but since UNSC is mass producing them

I see odst going extint in couple of Decades

[limber dagger]

mass producing is an entirely relative term though. Yes, they are mass producing them in terms of the production rate they had with spartan 2's and 3's, but they are not mass producing them in terms of the total number of marines and ODSTs that get trained every year.

[keen coral]

well "suitable" spartans are just clones of the original

[limber dagger]

The goal is approximately 100,000 Spartans in some number of years. Which is a lot, but no where near the millions of marines, ODSTs, airmen etc etc.

[keen coral]

i think before they started integrating mass augmentation to an entire human populace that might not be regulatable by ONI, they would just print more clones

[royal river]

I don't think "mass production" is an acceptable term.

[limber dagger]

its a relative term to describe the production rate compared to what it used to be. but it certainly is not mass production in terms of how you would normally understand or use that word.

[royal river]

The only way to become a Spartan is to earn it and that's by rasing through the ranks so ODSTs and the likes are an important part of the system

[keen coral]

odst are dropped from space for rebel conflicts, regular soldiers are also builders, cooks, mailmen, etc... and spartans are for deep ops

[limber dagger]

True, but actually there are paths to go straight from civilian to Spartan if you show enough aptitude or skill.

my bad for ping

Vale was a civilian before she became a Spartan.

[keen coral]

my reference for lore is the books :L

[ebon pike]

But value of odsts will be highly diminshed also one thing If you saw Commander Agryna trailer its makes you question why wasn't regular ODSTs are used to take out small Brute post

instea of a Spartan squad

[royal river]

Yeah I get that. I just think it diminishes the importance. Makes it seem like they are just checking out Spartans left and right when that's not true. They don't just make anyone a Spartan.

[limber dagger]

I really just dont think their utility will diminish. Why use a squad of highly expensive, highly trained special forces soldiers to accomplish a task that has been accomplished by rank and file soldiers for 1000's of years.

[keen coral]

there is a lot of value in having a highly mobile and effective unit already in a combat zone, that might be why, a follow up punch the odst cant give

[unique rune]

I mean. The Spartans that saved Agryna were probably there because London was being invaded by the Covenant, not just because a squad of Brutes was squatting on a roadway.

They just happened to be in the right place at the right time.

[royal river]

I agree @limber dagger

[keen coral]

thats leadership at its finest, nova01

[royal river]

Ugh I have to get back to school work lol I'll be back to this sub again sometime. It's been fun!

[limber dagger]

Regular marines and ODSTs will always have their place and function in the military. Expanding the capabilities of one set of soldiers will never diminish the utility of another. That just isn't how it works and never has. Special forces are the scalpel, rank and file are the battering ram.

[ebon pike]

I am not saying that ODST will suddenly disappear, they will be slowly phased out, either By Spartans or by Better Drop Pods Technoloy

Just like Tank Destroyer, Horses, Anti Tank Rifles

[keen coral]

idk how spartans are made in the games but in the books, regular humans couldn't survive augmentation almost all the time, and the spartans they had were clones and genetically modified so

[limber dagger]

Yes, true, but you also dont fix something if it isn't broken. Hell, the UNSC still uses the 7.62X 51mm NATO round. It's hundreds of years old in the 2500's.

[keen coral]

the odst didn't look kindly at the spartans, thought they were freaks

[limber dagger]

thats only spartan 2's. The pool of candidates was expanded for the spartan 3's. Then expanded even more for the Spartan 4's. Spartan 4's are all normal humans who were exemplary soldiers in the military, but they aren't genetically perfect, 1 in a billion specimens of humanity that the spartan 2's were.

even the spartan 3's had some pretty "imperfect" human beings. Lucy is literally 5'3 lol.

[keen coral]

short is good for covert. did the spartans get weaker?

[limber dagger]

None of the spartan 2's are under 6 feet tall. Male or female. They are all giants.

[ebon pike]

yep 2>3>4

[versed helm]

Lol

[limber dagger]

pretty sure none of them are even under 6'6 tall to be honest.

[keen coral]

yeah i think thats right

[limber dagger]

Jorge was nearly 8 feet tall in armor lol

7'4***

[keen coral]

is all the lore coming from the game cutscenes?

[unique rune]

Sort of?
S-IIs and -IIIs are supposed to be pretty much comparable out of armor.

S-IVs are weaker than the prior two generations but their armor is designed to compensate for it.

[ebon pike]

Kurt was 8 ft 2in

[limber dagger]

Yeah with the 3's there were some outliers, like Lucy, but by and large they were pretty much genetically perfect humans as well.

[keen coral]

john 117 was 7'2" in armor

[limber dagger]

but yeah no spartan will ever match the spartan 2's. At least outside of advancements in armor. physically speaking, spartan 2's are superior to any others.

Kelly is the fastest human to ever live lol.

out of armor

[nimble laurel]

Adriana and Mike were the shortest s2 standing at 6ft

[limber dagger]

adriana was taller than that. In The Cole Protocol she is stated to be 6 and a half feet tall while out of armor.

no specific height info on mike tho

just over 6 feet

[nimble laurel]

Sorry was off she's 6.6 my bad

[limber dagger]

all good, no worries. There were a couple of short ones in the spartan 3's that we know of.

like i said earlier, lucy is like 5'3 out of armor. she can still tie a full grown man into a pretzel though

[keen coral]

so at this point they're not running the spartan program as they originally were, now it's mostly armor and meeting qualifications?

i wonder if its the efficacy thats the issue or something else

[ebon pike]

kinda yes

[limber dagger]

yep, way less to do with genetics and way more to do with potential

[keen coral]

i cant remember which spartan, but they didn't all know they were clones... so it was hard to process for them

[limber dagger]

they had no idea that they were cloned.

[keen coral]

well genetic potential is something that can be adjusted through pharmacology

[limber dagger]

but wait, just so you guys are clear. The actual spartan 2's were not the clones

they were cloned and the clones were given back to their parents.

[ebon pike]

and clones died

[nimble laurel]

No they were flash cloned so that the parents wouldn't know

[keen coral]

but didn't they also die during augmentation and brought back as clones?

[ebon pike]

Nope

[limber dagger]

flash cloned so that their parents wouldnt know that the "real" child was kidnapped.

[keen coral]

oh okay

[nimble laurel]

No because if that would gave worked why kidnap the kids

[ebon pike]

Kinda defaet whole purpose of project

[keen coral]

right, if you can just clone them

[limber dagger]

they were cloned to cover their tracks. so that the parents would not come looking for the kids after they were kidnapped. the clones would all die at a young age and were intended to prevent anyone from looking for their kids.

halsey knew all the clones would die at an early age because flash cloning was not a perfect science. thats why they replaced the real kids with clones

it was just a part of the cover up

halsey literally says that if she could have used the clones instead of kidnapping the children, she would have.

[ebon pike]

He knows becuase he was one of ONI agent working in the facility

[keen coral]

yeah and even then those that were kidnapped didn't survive the process so making spartan 2s might not seem sustainably feasible

[nimble laurel]

was it glasslands that touched up on the cloning storyline with naomi and ger father

[ebon pike]

75 were kidnapped only 33 survived

[limber dagger]

if they tried again with the spartan 2 program now, almost all the candidates would certain survive augmentations. All of the augmentations were just theoretical at that point and had never actually been done before.

[ebon pike]

yep but it could be very unethical

[limber dagger]

Now, if they just re-tried with the spartan 2 program, with an entirely new batch of kids, they would almost all certainly survive.

oh yeah of course its unethical lol. Im just saying that not nearly as many, if any at all, would die during augmentations if they just did the same thing over again now with the augmentation experience that the UNSC now has.

[keen coral]

then why go for spartan 4s, regular humans with "imperfections"

[limber dagger]

so they dont have to kidnap children.

[ebon pike]

Much more affordable

[limber dagger]

way larger pool of candidates as well

[keen coral]

if augmentation isnt an issue anymore then why would they have to

[ebon pike]

Augmentation is still a issue

that is only a child body can handle it

[limber dagger]

its not about augmentations. its about finding the candidates in the first place.

[keen coral]

im not sure what the human population is?

[limber dagger]

finding dozens and dozens of basically genetically perfect children BEFORE billions were dead from the covenant was already a tough task. doing it now would be impossible. Also, since augmentations procedures have advanced enough to be able to be completed on consenting adults, there is no reason to go back to using children.

[ebon pike]

I think around 150-250 billion

[limber dagger]

They take way longer to train, and there are massive ethical and legal issues when using children as well. Its entirely illegal.

[ebon pike]

UNSC military strength is around 7-10 Billion

[keen coral]

they just dont make um like they used to, huh

[limber dagger]

7-10 billion seems like a bit of a stretch

where are you seeing that

[ebon pike]

There are 2.2 billion Soldier in UNSC Army

[untold wasp]

do spartan IVs have augmentations? if so what is the success and failure ratio

[ebon pike]

Not counting support staff

[limber dagger]

yes and near 100%

100% success

[nimble laurel]

Spartan 4s are recruited from both career military veterans and younger soldiers who show promise plus its lot less extensive augmentations that they get

[limber dagger]

also civilians.

[humble yacht]

The augs are still pretty extensive

Full organ replacements, for one

[limber dagger]

but yes the spartan 4 augmentations are way less extreme than the spartan 2 and 3's, but still pretty extensive.

the difference is meant to be made up with their armor

[humble yacht]

You’re conflating “extensive” with “effective”

[untold wasp]

wow

[keen coral]

haha im definitively on the side of nurturing a warrior culture, they did good with john 117. however he was raised as a child, and then through training. despite being kidnapped there weren't dissenting spartans

[limber dagger]

no, just saying that the spartan 4 augmentations are still extensive, just not as extensive as the spartan 2 and 3's.

[humble yacht]

Again, you are conflating meanings

[limber dagger]

no im not.

[humble yacht]

Extensive has nothing to do with how strong the augs make the subject

[limber dagger]

i know the difference between extensive and effective is.

[untold wasp]

the only spartan IIs i know that are alive is blue team and jerome

[limber dagger]

what?

i didnt say that in the first place lol

[nimble laurel]

Only one major dissenting spartan that I know was Mickey Crespo but he was brought back into the light

[humble yacht]

The extent of the augs is basically the number of augs and how much the augs change the subject

[keen coral]

chimera is saying spartan 4 augs are as proficient as spartan 2 augs?

[humble yacht]

No

I’m not talking about proficiency

[keen coral]

strength and proficiency to do a job are relateable

[limber dagger]

i just said that the difference in strength and whatnot is meant to be made up with the spartan 4's MJOLNIR. This is directly stated in New Blood as well. maybe i wasnt being clear or something.

[humble yacht]

I wasn’t talking about strength

[keen coral]

im wondering if the surgeries the spartan 4s underwent while as extensive maybe were tuned lower

[humble yacht]

Strength has to do with effectiveness

Spartan IIs are stronger than IVs but IVs actually get more augmentations

[limber dagger]

We aren't even in disagreement here lol.

[humble yacht]

I’m just making sure words are used appropriately, lol

[keen coral]

is the genetics of the spartan 2s really the reason they're stronger than 4s?

[humble yacht]

No

The good genetics of the IIs just made them more likely to survive their augmentations

[keen coral]

but most of everyone survives now

[untold wasp]

and that they were kids i guess

[nimble laurel]

@limber dagger yeah bad blood and new blood show it from bucks pov

[untold wasp]

also what happened to blue team?

[humble yacht]

Yes because over time the augmentations were reworked to be compatible with more people

[limber dagger]

Also, they were going to be strong, smart human beings in the first place. The augmentations were just meant to add to that. But yes, their genetics also helped them survive their augmentations as well.

[keen coral]

so you think spartan 2 aug was much harsher on the body? they stopped kidnapping kids, stop being so mad sciency

[humble yacht]

It’s a nature vs nurture argument at that point

The philosophical question of hard work vs natural talent

[keen coral]

yeah chimera im wondering how you get more 117s, how do u print leadership

[humble yacht]

You don’t

[limber dagger]

It was just the first time these augmentations had really been completed. No one knew what was going to happen really. They were hypothetical experiments essentially.

[twilit linden]

Lol

[keen coral]

was it his parents who raised him until he was 6, his comrades, halsey, genetics, augmentation, armor?

[nimble laurel]

Even though Fred outranks John he always goes back to a secondary role because of John's leadership

[untold wasp]

probbaly all

[limber dagger]

John and the rest of the Spartan 2's were kidnapped at the age of 6. They were normal children who lived normal lives before they were kidnapped.

[untold wasp]

Spartan IIs are most likely suffering from mental stuff (i think) (right?)

[keen coral]

so what led from the extreme value we placed on the spartan 2s to the complacency with the 4s

[limber dagger]

I'm not sure what complacency you are talking about it. Explain further.

[nimble laurel]

It's said spartan 2s we're more distant but the 3s had to rely on a drug to keep them stable

[limber dagger]

Gamma company 3's at least ^^

[humble yacht]

It wasn’t complacency, lol

[keen coral]

regular humans with a myriad of backgrounds, allegiances, they're already formatted which means they weren't created with specific purpose

i call that complacent

[humble yacht]

I call that ethics

[limber dagger]

Wait what?

[humble yacht]

ONI didn’t use children because they wanted to, but because they had to

[limber dagger]

It's just a ethical and economic thing. Finding genetically perfect children after billions of humans were eradicated would be nearly impossible.

[humble yacht]

Limitations of the procedures necessitated using prepubescent subjects with very specific genetic profiles

[keen coral]

and why not continue to? because of ethics? that just means they are complacent and not under the duress they once were

[humble yacht]

It’s not complacency, lol

[limber dagger]

Kidnapping children is very illegal, and a good way to start a war.

[nimble laurel]

@keen coral because of public opinion

[stable flower]

Guhment came and took mah baby

[humble yacht]

You’re letting your opinion of spartan IVs bias the way you view the way the spartan program evolved

[keen coral]

if you say we are willing to kidnap children now, but not later because everything will be okay by then, then that is complacent

Satisfied with the current situation and unconcerned with changing it, especially under the guise of "ethics"

[humble yacht]

No, that’s just called being a better person

[limber dagger]

No, it means that the augmentation procedures have advanced enough to allow for their implementation in adults.

They could not use adults before.

[humble yacht]

They did change the situation by making the augmentations better

[limber dagger]

Now they can, so they do.

[twilit linden]

This is gonna get heated

[humble yacht]

If anything, choosing to use children rather than continue improving the augmentations in the first place was complacent

[keen coral]

the augmentations were made better, but the candidates were not

because the situation didn't call for it

[humble yacht]

The candidate selection was always dependent on the augmentations, never the other way around

[keen coral]

the augs were just theoretical, the children were not

[limber dagger]

The augmentations were made better so they did not have to use genetically perfect children, which are much harder to find than consenting adults that are already in the military.

And they wanted more Spartans

[keen coral]

they wanted more armor in the field

[humble yacht]

Remember that the original intent for making super soldiers was to use adults, hence project Orion

[twilit linden]

It was based on genetic coding of the children that were selected to be augmented. Everything was based on the science

It’s common sense lol

[humble yacht]

Using children was a concession made to make a super soldiers immediately

Since it would take longer to improve the augmentations

[keen coral]

it took 15-20 years before they had spartans after kidnapping the children

[twilit linden]

That and they also thought about the ancient Spartan warriors

[keen coral]

that's almost a whole generation of people

[humble yacht]

Wrong

It took like 5 years

[limber dagger]

They were only able to identify 150 potential candidates for Spartan 2. 150 candidates out of 10s of billions of people. That was also before the Covenant had eradicated 10's of billions of people. It would be near impossible to find that many candidates again.

[keen coral]

they wore armor at 11?

[humble yacht]

They were augmented by the time they were teens

[keen coral]

they were augmented at 14

[humble yacht]

Yea

[limber dagger]

8 years to be exact.

[humble yacht]

Kidnapped at 6, augmented at 14

[limber dagger]

Kidnapped at 6, augmented and graduated the program at 14

oh nice good timing lol

[humble yacht]

Not 15 years

[twilit linden]

Lol

[keen coral]

idk how old they were first entering combat

[humble yacht]

They were teens

[limber dagger]

They were 14

[keen coral]

not simulated combat

[humble yacht]

They went into combat as soon as they recovered from the augs

They were literally child soldiers

[limber dagger]

First combat with an actual enemy was when they were 14. First contact with the covenant was when they were 14 as well.

[twilit linden]

do you know anything about the ancient Spartans? And how they became the most fierce warriors on earth?

[keen coral]

the lacedonians?

[humble yacht]

Do you mean macedonians?

[twilit linden]

They were Spartans. Started at the age of 7 years old in the agoge.

[keen coral]

yessir

[gaunt oak]

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[limber dagger]

Yes, actual Spartan's trained for combat from very young childhood all the way to adulthood.

[twilit linden]

A lot of Greek mythology plays a part in Halo lol

[humble yacht]

Macedonians were a lot later than ancient Spartans. Alexander the Great was Macedonian

[rough spire]

But he did conquer the later Spartans

[limber dagger]

Hence the 300 spartans of Alpha and Beta teams for the spartan 3's. Almost all of which died.

[untold wasp]

Prometheans

[limber dagger]

besides the ones pulled out for other programs

[nimble laurel]

Spartan 3s more commonly known as the real suicide squad

[limber dagger]

true

disposable super soldiers.

[twilit linden]

Exactly lol

[keen coral]

In antiquity, Sparta the city-state was known as Lacedaemon

[limber dagger]

they really werent disposable tho lol. they still were trained for years and billions were invested into them.

hardly qualifies as disposable

[keen coral]

i had my spelling wrong

[limber dagger]

they were no more disposable than an aircraft carrier

[keen coral]

they would be totally for kidnapping the kids

[nimble laurel]

Yeah true but every mission was considered suicidal

[humble yacht]

It’s less that they were considered disposable and more they were sent on missions that no one else could accomplish

[limber dagger]

i know, i just hated the way they were said to be "disposable" in the book when they very clearly were not. You dont spend years of time and billions of dollars on disposable equipment.

[keen coral]

https://livingapex.com/laconic-speech-the-minimalist-rhetoric-of-the-spartans/

[humble yacht]

Obviously the UNSC would have preferred if the IIIs didn’t die

[limber dagger]

true but they were also not concerned with causalities they might sustain while doing it.

[humble yacht]

But they were prepared to replace them if they did

[nimble laurel]

Yep but they were the only ones who could do the jobs high risk high rewards

[twilit linden]

This is why I love ancient history with Halo. Lots of repeating history just different eras lol

[blazing sage]

Regardless, luckily, they did abduct those kids and augment them. 😛

[keen coral]

"id kidnap a thousand children before i let this company die" - dr.halsey

[versed helm]

The ONI I think will do anything to save himself

[sullen ridge]

mean oni made a genetically modified crop or whatever that sangheili can't digest

just for reasons

they did a lot already

[limber dagger]

ONI is very much a meanie pants

"It's not about your enemies intent, it's about their capability"

[sudden veldt]

so 343 guilty spark (RIP) was the monitor for installation 04 and 2401 penitent tangent was the monitor for installation 05.....do we know the identities of the other 5 monitors (there were 7 halo installations total)?

[limber dagger]

yes, we do.

[versed helm]

Abject testament was 03

[limber dagger]

I dont remember them off the top of my head, but they are all known.

[sudden veldt]

presumably we meet one of them in infinite

[limber dagger]

Also, 343 guilty spark is very much alive lol. just not in the same old murderous, cheerful ball form we all know and love.

[limber dagger]

yeah very possibly.

probably actually.

wonder what he/she thinks of this whole banished/ cortana business.

[tardy gust]

When was the Spartan II program launched?

[limber dagger]

2517

thats when it got started at least. probably several years of planning beforehand.

117649 Despondent Pyre is the monitor of Instl 07. Probably going to meet him/ her in the game.

[versed helm]

I need a detailed essay on how and why black team died

[limber dagger]

Didact= meanie pants

[sudden veldt]

yeah what was with that anyway?

[limber dagger]

idk i havent read that comic.

probably should but i just dont feel like spending the money when i can get a full recap on youtube or something

[sudden veldt]

what happened in didact's past to turn him so bitter?

[limber dagger]

a 1000 year war with ancient humanity

[hard night]

biggest misunderstanding ever

humanity was running

[limber dagger]

thats an understatement

[hard night]

in the universe

[limber dagger]

basically humanity were doing the forerunners a massive favor and trying to warn them of the flood, but the forerunners just thought the humans were being mean and expansionist, so the forerunners decided to go to war with the humans.

really all could have been avoided if they just sat down over some dinner for literally 1 night and explained themselves. but whatever.

[hard night]

forerunners so damn stupid

[limber dagger]

honestly they kind of were.

and even now that the diadact knows the truth, he still hates humans. kind of just a stubborn prick tbh.

[sudden veldt]

for all their advanced tech they were severely lacking in the comms department

[hard night]

and in zombie dealing too

[limber dagger]

i love the whole forerunner trilogy, but the whole part about forerunners fighting humanity is just a little silly. really could have been solved in a matter of minutes.

[hard night]

RIP new phoenix

[limber dagger]

"hey guys, sorry we cleansed a few of your planets and sterilized them. the flood had taken hold, there really was no choice. we just did what we had to do before the flood took over the entire planet."

[hard night]

i feel bad for Earth in the Halo universe

first covenant

[limber dagger]

pretty much would have solved everything honestly

[hard night]

then flood AND covenant

then the mantle's approach

then cortana's guardians

and now maybe the banished

[limber dagger]

yeah everone really just needs to chill tbh.

[hard night]

Earth doesnt seem to get a break

[limber dagger]

big galaxy. plenty of room for everyone. you go over there and ill go over here. we can have get togethers sometimes, but overall just be pleasant neighbors who keep to ourselves.

really wouldnt be too much of a problem.

but noooooooooo

[hard night]

would be even more awesome if elites and humans co existed

lived together

[limber dagger]

they do in small examples

Onyx

[hard night]

you have Arbiter's ships and UNSC destroyers train together

UNSC Infinity with CAS class carrier

[limber dagger]

ONI RF Trevallyan. They literally do live and work together. The kids even go to school together. Pretty wild tbh.

[sudden veldt]

shame about jul'mdama (i probably spelled that wrong)

[limber dagger]

we dont talk about that here. its too great of a sin to be reminded of.

[hard night]

bro got wasted in halo 5

[limber dagger]

you shut your dirty mouth

[hard night]

its true 😔

[limber dagger]

some facts are too horrible to acknowledge 😦

[hard night]

i do want blue team to return

[limber dagger]

one of the best characters to ever exist in the series...1 tapped in a cutscene

WeirdChamp

[sudden veldt]

i mean what was his problem?

[hard night]

ngl he was taking good care of halsey

but got betrayed

😔

[limber dagger]

thought humans were dangerous and felt that the sanghelli needed to gain back their power to keep them in check. Same exact thing ONI was doing to the Sanghelli.

[hard night]

no but

i

if

arbiter and master chief fought together against atriox

who would win

[limber dagger]

you mean like as individuals?

like literally the arbiter and MC fought Atriox in actual combat?

[hard night]

yes

[limber dagger]

idk, probably atriox, but thats just because of how powerful they have randomly made him as an individual. no other brute in the entire series has been that weirdly strong and powerful, then we have one random brute that can take on 3 spartans at once and embarrass them.

physically powerful, i mean.

[sudden veldt]

plot strength

[limber dagger]

1 game where a single ODST can take on an army of brutes, the next where a brute can embarrass 3 spartan 2's in a matter of seconds.

just halo things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEWEdIcx1DI&t=343s

funny video about being a halo nerd ^

you will appreciate it

[cobalt frigate]

i think atriox is mechanically enhanced or something like that so he's stronger than other brutes

[limber dagger]

this is true ^^

Atriox wears unique black and white combat armor, which is partially of United Nations Space Command origin.[57] It is made from various pieces, including an ODST chestplate. He also dons an augmented power gauntlet which artificially enhances his strength to a significant degree. In battle, he wields a customized energy mace called Chainbreaker, which he created from parts of a Type-2 gravity hammer.[58]

[twilit linden]

In other words. He’s a tank. Challenge accepted

[limber dagger]

pretty much. not sure how or why cortana allows him and his friends to exist, but whatever. plot needs.

[stable flower]

^

About Red Team getting owned by Atriox, it's kind of justified as that was their first time seeing combat in over twenty years

[limber dagger]

True, but still lol.

Regardless, the Banished are the exact kind of thing that Cortana wants to get rid of. Power hungry war mongers with no other goal in mind than war itself.

The only way the Banished can really exist is if Cortana (in her current form) does not. They wouldn't be able to operate otherwise.

Idk, guess we do not have to wait long to figure it out. Really excited for tomorrow regardless of popular opinion. I'm going to enjoy it regardless.

I dont think there has been a Halo game that I have not enjoyed playing. Even H5 with its crappy story was still a fun game and I enjoyed playing it, even though the story itself was severely lacking.

[humble yacht]

Well according to SoR, they were just keeping a low profile and avoiding getting detected by her or her guardians

[chrome blaze]

War and killing storm troopers with bowcasters

[limber dagger]

Yeah I remember all of that, but still. The fact they can avoid her at all is a little weird to me. She has access to basically every Forerunner device in the galaxy. The second that portal was activated, she would know about it.

At least in my opinion anyways. From the "power level" they gave her in H5, the fact that the Banished can avoid her at all seems very odd.

[tacit charm]

honestly infinity would mop the floor with the cas 9.8/10 heck same thing would happen to the cso

[humble yacht]

No I don’t think that’s true. We don’t know to what extent the domain was connect to the existing forerunner tech

Remember the absolute record was lost so she would likely have to find every installation manually

[humble yacht]

She did know about it

Opening the portal summoned a guardian

[sullen ridge]

if she got into unsc data etc she can probably know the location of the majority of the rings

since the unsc has been actively searching for em

[humble yacht]

The UNSC only knows where a few rings are

They know zeta, they know delta.

[sullen ridge]

05, 03 and 07

we know for sure

[humble yacht]

Wrong!

Gamma was taken away by the monitor

[sullen ridge]

hm

[humble yacht]

We no longer know where it is

[sullen ridge]

well 05 and 07

and anders' ring she also knows of

then

[humble yacht]

The UNSC doesn’t know about that one

But her guardian found it

[sullen ridge]

no but Cortana does

[gaunt tiger]

why should she need the rings for?

[sullen ridge]

superweapon pointed at the head of the galaxy

[gaunt tiger]

but why

[sullen ridge]

to assert dominance

[gaunt tiger]

ah ok

i remeber her saying smt like that

[sullen ridge]

it's quite the threat

having a halo under your control

[gaunt tiger]

this never works out well...

[humble yacht]

Maybe she wants the rings for no other reason than keeping them out of others’ hands

Who knows

[gaunt tiger]

maybe

[humble yacht]

Maybe she wants to combine it with a composer so she can digitize people who don’t listen

[gaunt tiger]

but the galaxies population wont like her for threateninng them...

[gilded mason]

Not like they'd be able to do anything about it.

[gaunt tiger]

yeh

[limber dagger]

I mean yes, this is true. But at the same time, she was able to broadcast a galaxy wide message to declare her intentions. That shows (or at least heavily implies) that she has the ability to reach out thru the Domain or some other mechanism. Also, the fact that SoR takes place on Reach, which has thousands and thousands of Forerunner artifacts that she very clearly does know about. I dont know. The way she was portrayed in Halo 5 makes it seem like hiding from her would not be especially easy.

[gaunt tiger]

but i like the thought of every specie fighting together against her

[humble yacht]

Kids don’t like broccoli but parents make them eat it anyway

[gaunt tiger]

and the kids rebell

[humble yacht]

And then they get grounded

Or spanked, depending on what generation you are

[gaunt tiger]

and then they wont visit they parents when they are in retirement home

and theyll die lonely lol

[humble yacht]

You say that but when those kids grow up and have their own kids, they make their kids eat broccoli too