lore-and-universe

[limber dagger]

Also, another big one for me. When John was talking to Cortana and he said (paraphrased) "Like Doctor Halsey did for me?"...how people people were there that probably said "What did Doctor Halsey do?" Lol there just wasn't enough backstory shown that makes any of the character's motivations make any sense. The only motivation is that clear is John's desire to find and save Cortana.

[versed helm]

Didn't Halsey just kidnap a bunch of children and made them super soldiers by having them augmented, trained, and was given a highly protective suit?

[humble yacht]

Yes

[versed helm]

It's a myth that's what the fear mongeres want you to think

[versed helm]

Got it

[versed helm]

Spartans were super soldiers from another planet that dropped from the sky which we were later able to replicate the tech, i promise it definitely wasn't kids

[limber dagger]

Yeah, what that guy said ^^^ I am just part of the ONI propaganda machine!

[strong tinsel]

Spartans are cough willing volunteers

[humble yacht]

They actually are now

[versed helm]

That's true for like Orion and IV

[limber dagger]

Hey man, the Spartan 3's said yes!

[strong tinsel]

Yes

[versed helm]

I mean your not wrong

[strong tinsel]

Spartans 2s also said yes

[lunar drum]

"hello war orphans do you want revenge for your dead parents?"

[limber dagger]

Granted, they were literally between 4 and 6 years old and recently orphaned by a genocidal alien race, but yeah they can definitely give informed consent lmao

[versed helm]

Consenting volunteers what's the problem

[limber dagger]

Exactly!

[strong tinsel]

Yes

if you say otherwise we will make you dissapear

[limber dagger]

At least they weren't replaced with defective flash clones that served as a perfect cover up for their disappearance and that drove some of the parents to suicide!

[valid hemlock]

oh man, i hope the spartan program was originated to defeat the covenant!!1

[limber dagger]

Oh no no no 😆

[strong tinsel]

Its a rebel lie

[valid hemlock]

it was, right?

[strong tinsel]

Even if we did such a thing (which we didnt) we atleast provided their family with a clone

[limber dagger]

Yes, sure friend...whatever you say. How much did ONI pay you, by the way?

[strong tinsel]

0

[limber dagger]

Lol no to Quepasa

[valid hemlock]

why would the oni and unsc had another purpose to have super soldiers

[limber dagger]

Rebels bad, UNSC good.

[strong tinsel]

The rebels are spreading lies smh

[strong tinsel]

Exactly

[valid hemlock]

+10 social ueg credit score

[versed helm]

Obliterate the rebellion

[limber dagger]

Rebels bad, UNSC good, so we need genetically augmented supersoliders that can beat 4 full grown Special Forces soldiers to death or disfigurement at 14 years of age!

[strong tinsel]

Collatoral damage

[valid hemlock]

it was for the greater good, OK??!! 😤

[limber dagger]

His heart rate is barely over 60. He isn't even breaking a sweat!

[versed helm]

At a minimum i mean seems pretty chill to me considering the amount of rebels

[limber dagger]

True tbh

[versed helm]

I want to see a Spartan body builder imagine how jacked they would be

[limber dagger]

Idk why, I've just always wanted to see what would happen with an S II in a good ole fashioned bar fight.

Him or her against say, 30? 40?

[versed helm]

Like Ronnie Coleman on steroids on steroids

[versed helm]

Shoot em

[valid hemlock]

40 civillians, surely

[versed helm]

They aren't bullet resistant without the armour

[strong tinsel]

i will pay you $1000000 if you stop talking about it

[limber dagger]

If chief cant bench 1000 pounds unarmored, then the lore has failed us

[valid hemlock]

😭

[limber dagger]

sir yes sir!

[strong tinsel]

We didnt use children to make spartans

[limber dagger]

Never happened

[strong tinsel]

Every single member was a fully consenting adult

[limber dagger]

We just pulled a captain america and took our skrawniest, definitely over the age of 18 soldiers and made them better!

[valid hemlock]

all oni projects are ethically made and no children was hurt/kidnapped/killed in the process

[strong tinsel]

Yes

[valid hemlock]

all hail the unsc

[strong tinsel]

Wait everyone here is a oni agent?

Always has been

[limber dagger]

Dr Halsey was a saint and deserves the nobel peace prize for stopping humanity from imploding

[strong tinsel]

[strong tinsel]

No

[limber dagger]

Surgeon, is that you?

Its me, coal maker

wait wtf was his name...

[strong tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/cdi-super-mario-no-turn-around-gif-13643447

Im just a random dude on the internet

[limber dagger]

It wasn't coal maker, it was Usual Suspects. Dang. Need to reread

Imposter ONI agent.

[strong tinsel]

Its not like oni has multiple agents

[limber dagger]

Yes, only 1. ONI doesnt actually exist. It's just one guy.

[strong tinsel]

Bruh

[limber dagger]

His name is Ted

Nice guy. Brews his own beer.

[strong tinsel]

It was all a lie!

I didnt even get the beer

:(

[limber dagger]

It's 6/10, just dont tell him that.

A cross between Coors and Heineken. I've had better.

[strong tinsel]

I drink my own liquor anyways

100% alcohol

[limber dagger]

Bear Grylls style huh?

[versed helm]

Hand sanitizer for the win

[strong tinsel]

My systems can handle the alcohol due to me being partially russian

[limber dagger]

I drank moonshine once. It really works well to soften the ego and humble yourself.

[strong tinsel]

My liquor has multiple tastes

Strawberry

Tomato

Potato

Blood

[limber dagger]

Lol we are gonna get muted.

[strong tinsel]

Ik

Lore stuff

Do odsts have shields

[versed helm]

Admins don't respect the sigma grind

[limber dagger]

Its all part of the plan to distract the public from the rebel lies!

[versed helm]

No

[limber dagger]

OSDTs really got the short end of the stick.

[strong tinsel]

So did the army

Hunt the truth is pretty good

[versed helm]

In short don't join the military

[strong tinsel]

I give it a 9.5/10

[limber dagger]

Like come on now, we could have given them at least 1 or 2 of the more "tame" Spartan augmentations and just made them at least someone competitive.

Ive actually never listened to the full Hunt the Truth

i probably should.

[versed helm]

They did, they have better bones

And a few other things i think

[limber dagger]

Where is that ever stated? Thought they were just highly trained special forces. No augmentations tho.

[versed helm]

Only reason they have better bones is so they don't die on impact

[limber dagger]

Really????? Or are you also part of the ONI propaganda machine?

[versed helm]

Fall of reach i think

[strong tinsel]

Every unsc personnel member has some augmentation

[midnight loom]

The spartans bones are strengthened

[limber dagger]

Nah FoR just talks about Spartan augmentations. Never mentions anything about ODST augmentations. Maybe new blood or bad blood?

[midnight loom]

The marrow is turned godly

Organs are enhanced

[versed helm]

You'll be able to find it on google

[limber dagger]

yeah ill look

[humble yacht]

ODSTs aren’t augmented

[versed helm]

They are

[gaunt oak]

Do not tag Admins or Moderators unless immediate action is needed. If you see anything that does not abide by these rules and guidelines, please tag a Moderator to bring it to their attention.

[versed helm]

Just not much

[humble yacht]

At most they have a FoF tag in their head

[limber dagger]

Thats what i thought. ive never seen anything about that before, but i havent read every comic, jsut the books

[versed helm]

They have better bones because they kept breaking on impact

[humble yacht]

Remember to disable pings when replying

Show proof then

[versed helm]

I can't post anything here tho

[strong tinsel]

Why did i get a warning saying a word that wasnt really offensive

[limber dagger]

Yeah my bad.

[humble yacht]

You can post links to your proof

And you still are pinging when you reply. Turn off the ping

[limber dagger]

But yeah I'm reading on Halopedia and it doesnt mention anything about bone augmentations for ODSTs, just advanced prosthetics and the neural implants.

I know that isnt the end all be all, but yeah it doesnt say anything about it.

Not saying you are wrong, but I cant find anything to support that. Just link the book or something where its shown and ill check it out.

[versed helm]

So i just checked and only some ODST received mods not all of them

[limber dagger]

Where did you check?

[humble yacht]

Gonna guess halo fanon

[humble yacht]

Prosthetics wouldn’t be standard issue, that would be provided as a result of injury

[versed helm]

Steroid use is probably more common in the Helljumpers and optional implants, like eye improvement, fast reflexes and denser muscles may be accessible to ODST specialists like snipers and heavy weapons etc once applied for, reviewed and signed off on. But standard augmentations? No. The closest they'll get is their neural lace which is a requirement for all UNSC personnel.

Quoted

[humble yacht]

Quoted from where

[versed helm]

https://www.quora.com/In-Halo-do-Orbital-Drop-Shock-Troopers-ODSTs-receive-any-forms-of-augmentations-also-when-becoming-ODSTs/answer/Ryan-Brewis-1?ch=10&oid=67008119&share=ba71d490&srid=gt3TF&target_type=answer

[limber dagger]

Ok yeah lol i mean augmentations as in literal surgical augmentations. Not just using steroids' and stimulants

[humble yacht]

The voracity of that source is unverifiable

No citations or anything

[versed helm]

Well yeah they don't have sergical ones, they only have minor ones

Like chemicals etc

[humble yacht]

Notice how he says “probably”

[versed helm]

Ik

[humble yacht]

Bruh

Last warning

Turn off the ping

[versed helm]

?

How?

[gaunt oak]

To disable the ping/tag when replying, please click or tap the "on" button at the right hand side of the chat box in order to turn it off.
For users on PC, if you hold Shift while clicking reply the tag will be automatically turned off.

[versed helm]

What ping?

[humble yacht]

This ping

Don’t do that

[humble yacht]

Do this

[versed helm]

Like this?

[humble yacht]

Great job

👍

[limber dagger]

I am surpised that they werent given any minor surgical augmentations though to be honest. Just something like the neural dendrite augmentations or the enhancements to the cones and rods of the eyes. Something to give them an edge or at least level the playing field with the covenant elites.

[versed helm]

Cringe

[limber dagger]

You would think those would be able to be perfected, and then done at scale. Drastic measures for drastic situations.

[humble yacht]

But yeah, that quora “source” is speculating. It’s not confirmed that any odst even actually used steroids or applied for optional augmentations

[versed helm]

I realised that after i found it

[humble yacht]

Halopedia is a better resource for looking stuff up, I recommend

They provide citations

[limber dagger]

Lol im sure they 100% did use performance enhancing drugs. Even the spartans did fairly regularly. Stimulants and what not to help them stay away longer and be faster.

but yeah it is just speculation.

i dont think its ever stated explicitly in the lore that they do on a wide scale.

[humble yacht]

Where is it said Spartans take drugs for performance enhancement?

[limber dagger]

its fairly rare, but John actually gave one to Linda in FoR while she was recovering from her injuries. It helped her get back to full speed quicker.

[humble yacht]

I mean

[limber dagger]

Shouldnt have said "regularly"

[humble yacht]

That was for medicinal purposes

That’s like saying they take drugs for drinking cough syrup when they have a cold

[limber dagger]

Also, there are the "rumble drugs" we learned about in Midnight in the Heart of Midloathian, but that was more used by rebels, not UNSC personnel.

The special cocktail given to Gamma company would definitely count as performance enhancing as well. But yeah they weren't popping Adderall on the front lines to stay awake longer. I misspoke.

[humble yacht]

I’m not saying it’s not possible that some personnel have a bad habit with drug use but it certainly isn’t standard

Gammas are a special case

[limber dagger]

Poor Kurt man

[humble yacht]

Technically the drugs the gammas take are smoothers, downers

The extra enhancements were permanently applied, the drugs counter the psychoactive side effects of those extra enchancemenst

Kurt was a spartan 2

[limber dagger]

Yep I know, just saying that their augmentations definitely count as performance enhancing drugs. Just on a permanent basis.

[humble yacht]

I mean

By that logic so would every spartan

Every spartan got drug cocktails that enhanced them permanently

[limber dagger]

Yes, I know Kurt was a Spartan 2 lol. I said poor kurt because he had to deal with the loss of 2 full spartan companies, which drove him to introduce the new cocktail for the gammas so they would be more likely to survive in battles.

He wanted to give them every chance to survive long term that he could, since he knew the missions they would be sent on.

[humble yacht]

Yes I know

I just disagree with how you characterize the enhancements on the same level as an odst popping pills to get an edge

[limber dagger]

Especially when speaking about the Gammas. The Gammas specific cocktail of drugs allows them to survive situations and injuries that even other Spartans could not. Just saying it counts as "performance enhancing drugs." Yes, it is most certainly on a widely different scale and purpose to temporary stimulants and pain killers issued to soldiers in the field, but nonetheless would still fall under the same category. Just with different details.

But yeah I understand what you mean. It's a reach, but I think it does hold some water.

[humble yacht]

No more than any of the other enhancements every spartan got

Not to mention they didn’t exactly have a choice in taking the drugs

[limber dagger]

I gotta disagree there. The Gamma company augmentations in terms of the drugs given to them and their overall effect was wayyyyy different than any other Spartan company. The Gamma's certainly can keep fighting and survive injuries far beyond what another Spartan could endure. I could find a or timestamp for you, but Kurt literally says this in GoO.

[humble yacht]

The point is it was a standardized part of that particular group of Spartans and was not an elective choice by any of them

I know what the extra gamma enhancements do, it’s not about the what but the why

Or rather the how

[limber dagger]

I think our disagreement here is that you are placing consent at a high value. My argument is that consent does not matter, and that they still are considered performance enhancing drugs.

Or maybe I just dont understand what you are trying to get at.

[humble yacht]

Consent matters because when people talk about performance enhancements the reason it’s considers bad is because of the intent

[limber dagger]

Intent certainly plays a role, but does intent matter at the end of the day? The effect is the same whether or not they said yes to it.

[humble yacht]

A gamma getting those extra enhancements isn’t doing it to be better than other Spartans, the gamma didn’t get a choice. It was done to the gamma

Just like all the other things that were done to the other Spartan 2s and 3s

So if you call the extra gamma enhancements “performance enhancing”, then in all fairness you have to say the same about every augmentation applied to the Spartans

That’s literally the whole purpose of the augmentations in the first place

[limber dagger]

I am saying that lol. I was just saying that the Gamma's were a special case.

Of course all the drugs given to the Spartans of all companies are performance enhancing. I was just saying the Gamma's are a special case is all.

I thought you were trying to say that, basically, they weren't given performance enhancing drugs because they didn't say yes to it specifically.

[humble yacht]

A special case in that they got additional augmentations. It’s still not the same situation as some random soldier popping pills to do better in the field

[limber dagger]

Yes, that is indeed a different situation.

[humble yacht]

Ok then

We can stop there

[limber dagger]

To be honest, I don't think we have actually disagreed at all here. I thought you were trying to make the assertion that consent and consent alone is the qualifier for "performance enhancing drug usage"

Which made me question you.

[humble yacht]

Well I focus on the “usage” part

Using something implies conscious decision imo

[limber dagger]

Of course, but it does not change the end outcome.

[humble yacht]

If it’s just in you all the time then it’s less you using it and more you just being you

I agree that Spartans have had their performance enhanced, that’s non negotiable

[limber dagger]

I suppose. See you're just looking at it from an individuals standpoint, while I'm looking at it from the high level. Same mindset, different perspective is all.

Tell me this...now I'm curious.

If performance enhancing drugs were issued to all soliders, and they were trained to use them to give themselves an edge in battle, but the soldier him/herself had to administer it, would you still consider that "usage?"

[humble yacht]

If the soldier could say no, then yes

I wouldn’t say that the “usage” in that case would be unethical, or unfair

In fact, as long as there weren’t any negative side effects, I’d see that as nothing but a net positive

[limber dagger]

I think there are always negative side effects. Look at the Spartan 2's. Zero sexual drive for those successfully augmented is super egregious. But, they ended up saving the human race, so still a net positive.

[humble yacht]

The libido thing was a possible side effect

[lunar drum]

^ I mean I believe we see attraction between Fred and ....I forgot her name. The leader of the Ferrets.

[limber dagger]

It seems to have taken effect in almost all of them. At least it is heavily implied that it did in Mortal Dictata.

[humble yacht]

I’d argue that the mental conditioning and brainwashing was a more effective means of making them not thing about that stuff

Randal went on to start a family after he defected, even before his augs were removed

[limber dagger]

Thats arguable, but still. It's a basic human instinct.

I thought Randal started his family after the augs were taken out?

[humble yacht]

And then there was the spartan 2 who tested John’s mark vi armor, she had aspirations of retiring so she could start a family

[humble yacht]

Nope

[limber dagger]

Maria? She was not successfully augmented. She was bedridden on Mars for years I thought?

Some M name.

[lunar drum]

It was Maria.

[humble yacht]

according to halopedia, it’s ambiguous whether it was the same character

[limber dagger]

She wrote a letter to John, right?

[humble yacht]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

If Maria was capable of testing MJOLNIR then that means she was successfully augmented, even if she initially rejected the augs

Red team was also initial washouts

Look at them now

[lunar drum]

Maria tested the Mk VI in Songam, Korea engaging ODSTs in mock battle in 2552. According to Halopedia.

[limber dagger]

Yeah all of the "washouts" were put into cryo until they could be successfully revived. Wonder how they got Maria back into shape.

[humble yacht]

But to go back to the original point, I was speaking hypothetically about your hypothetical scenario about real soldiers

[limber dagger]

Same thing they did with Red Team I suppose.

[humble yacht]

Pretty sure the cryo revival thing was just linda

And only because she was clinically dead

Unrelated to augmentations

[limber dagger]

Nope, it was all of the washouts from augmentations. The funeral that the successful augmentees had with CPO Mendez on the Atlas was fake. All of their bodies were put into cryo in the hopes they could be successfully brought back later.

Here, ill get the source.

[humble yacht]

Oh you’re talking about the ones who died

[limber dagger]

Yes, the ones who died.

[humble yacht]

I’m talking about the ones who survived but the augs didn’t take

Like red team, Osman, Musa, etc

[lunar drum]

I don't think the washouts ever actually died.

Definitely not cryoed.

[limber dagger]

Lol they definitely did die. They were all cryogenically frozen. Looking for the source now.

Here

This was presumably made possible by Halsey's insistence that no invasive autopsies be performed and that the funeral for those killed by the procedures be closed-casket, the cadavers instead remaining in cold storage. The doctor considered that some of the deceased Spartans may some day be resuscitated and placed into active service; by June 27, 2525, rehabilitation protocols were in development for 80% of the washouts, with AIs predicting a total survival rate as high as 50%. Halsey also noted her consternation over what ONI may do with a secret team of officially deceased Spartans, coincidentally predicting Black Team's survival.[6]

Taken directly from Halopedia with a source.

From Halsey's Journal

[tacit charm]

this seems like s2

[humble yacht]

We’re talking about two different subsets of failed Spartans

[tacit charm]

hold

[limber dagger]

Yes, this was the original Spartan 2 class.

[tacit charm]

ohh

thought you were talking s3

[limber dagger]

You are talking about the ones who were injured from the augmentations.

[humble yacht]

The ones who died weren’t “washouts”

The washouts were the ones who were injured. Some were rehabilitated, like red team

[limber dagger]

They are literally called washouts by Halsey lol

the ones who either died or were injured

They were all considered washouts.

[humble yacht]

Fine, we’re still talking about different things

[limber dagger]

Lol no we arent. You are talking about the ones who were injured. Red Team, Serin, Soren etc.

[humble yacht]

The reviving the dead plan never panned out so it’s moot

[limber dagger]

I think some actually were revived. Let me see.

[tacit charm]

linda

[lunar drum]

"In 2525, she and the other candidates underwent a series of augmentations to improve their combat prowess. Margaret was among the ones that survived and were not crippled or killed by the procedure." - From Margaret 053 leader of black team.

[humble yacht]

Linda didn’t die from her augs

[tacit charm]

technically

[limber dagger]

Lol different revivial were are talking about '

[humble yacht]

She died from plasma bolts to the head

[tacit charm]

ik

[lunar drum]

The ones that died during augmentation were never revived.

[limber dagger]

Its implied that Black Team contains at least some of the revived spartans.

...by June 27, 2525, rehabilitation protocols were in development for 80% of the washouts, with AIs predicting a total survival rate as high as 50%. Halsey also noted her consternation over what ONI may do with a secret team of officially deceased Spartans, coincidentally predicting Black Team's survival.[6]

But yeah there hasnt been anything further on that.

[lunar drum]

I read Black teams bios on Halopedia. None of them died.

Well not from augmentation anyway

[limber dagger]

Yeah you right.

Interesting little plot device that they slipped in. Maybe we get more spartans back one day. That would be interesting.

[humble yacht]

Doubtful

[lunar drum]

Not Spartan 2s

[limber dagger]

it would be in a book, not a game.

[humble yacht]

I think Halsey was just postulating

[limber dagger]

I mean they were literally working on the plans to revive them. There was serious effort put into it.

[lunar drum]

I mean, Omega team is still out there somewhere.

Would be interesting to have a book about them.

[humble yacht]

But to go back to the original point that made this tangent

The libido thing wasn’t a guarantee

And also was not really relevant to your hypothetical scenario that you crafted

[limber dagger]

Yes, it wasn't. Just seems like it did in fact take effect for most of them. I understand the S2's dedication to their mission and duty above all else, but basic human instincts are hard to overpower with training alone is all im saying.

at this point i dont even remember what i originally said to be honest.

[humble yacht]

You underestimate the power of brainwashing

Look at cults

[limber dagger]

Oh no you are definitely right, I just dont think they were ever brainwashed or trained that "sex is bad" lol. Maybe that was in there, but its never mentioned.

[humble yacht]

No but they were trained to only think about the mission

[limber dagger]

Actually, Otto and Margaret did have a relationship. Wow, didnt know that one.

[humble yacht]

And they were punished for it

[limber dagger]

Bad teenagers.

[humble yacht]

Also that was pre augs, tbf

[lunar drum]

Yeah Margaret lost her eye

[humble yacht]

:/

[limber dagger]

Training and their augs most likely play a role. Not one or the other. One perhaps more than another, but who knows which.

[lunar drum]

Both have an effect

I think it's implied that Naomi was sterile after being augmented.

[humble yacht]

It’s just important to note that the lack of the lore addressing libido in most Spartans is not evidence of them lacking one

[lunar drum]

^ this

[limber dagger]

Naomi explicitly says that she can, she just does not want to. She has no drive for it.

[humble yacht]

It’s just mostly irrelevant to the stories being told

If shadows of reach had a segment where John was ogling Kelly, it would be highly out of place

[limber dagger]

oh

yeah the bot did not like the naughty S word.

My bad.

[versed helm]

We're all Spartans as successful as noble six?

[lunar drum]

...All Spartans are capable.

[humble yacht]

It’s just a common misconception that all spartan 2s have reduced libido because of the augs, it’s possible but not confirmed

Best to avoid generalizations

[limber dagger]

What I said was, Naomi states that her augmentations (and by extent, her training) destroyed her natural desire to have a family. It seems implied that it is most likely the case for the rest of the operational S2's, but there is no confirmation.

True, just going off implied stuff from the lore.

[tacit charm]

they were all good maybe some better than others (not referring to the whole hyperlethal McGuffin)

[limber dagger]

jesus

[humble yacht]

If y’all can’t not be weird then we’ll just have to change topics

[lunar drum]

Or just mute the one bad apple. The rest of us are being mature.

[lunar drum]

I never liked that "hyper lethal vector" nonsense. All Spartans are capable.

[humble yacht]

It was thinly veiled marketing

[limber dagger]

Lol just a little line in a plot. I dont think it really means anything lorewise.

He's just a very effective soldier.

[humble yacht]

Bungie just wanted people to be ok with not playing Chief

[lunar drum]

It doesn't but people take it to mean he was the best aside from Chief.

[tacit charm]

well the line was mentioned again i think in the spartan field manual or something like that

[humble yacht]

So they preempted by trying to establish him as being the only other spartan as “special” as chief

[humble yacht]

Yes but the field manual says all Spartans are hyper lethal

[tacit charm]

ik

just bringing up

[limber dagger]

Yeah I know its canon, but without further description of what that even means, its really just fluff. I'm sure linda would be able to do the same things if she was tasked with it. The whole lone wolf thing.

[lunar drum]

Definitely.

Linda was crazy accurate as a sniper.

[limber dagger]

"Making entire rebel forces disappear without a trace"

Lol her sniping in First Strike always makes me laugh.

Upside down, hanging from a rope, one handed, 3 headshots to take out banshee pilots lmao

[lunar drum]

Yea it's crazy.

Probably the best sniper the UNSC has.

[limber dagger]

Shes probably the best sniper to ever live.

[tacit charm]

technically sniping pilots out of a banshee can be replicated in game, just saying (though obviously not in the same fashion as linda)

[limber dagger]

Kelly is most certainly the fastest human to ever live.

[lunar drum]

Kelly the Speedster

[limber dagger]

"I'm fast, real fast!"

Kelly go brrrr

[tacit charm]

wasnt fast enough to get to beat linda while they were training in lone wolf comic

"/

[limber dagger]

Havent read the lone wolf comics.

I just remember her having to slow herself down considerably to give fred a chance when sparing.

[humble yacht]

I care less about their physical exploits and more about their personalities

[lunar drum]

Agreed.

[humble yacht]

I love how in SoR, Kelly gets mad at John whenever he mentions Cortana by name

[limber dagger]

True. Too bad the games dont do them justice really. Except for John I suppose.

[humble yacht]

Also I love concussed fred

[tacit charm]

im more of the other way around ofc i do like good personalities on our protagonists

[limber dagger]

Veta Lopis sliding down a hill riding a locked up Fred like a surf board is also gold.

That scene would not have worked with anyone but Fred honestly.

[humble yacht]

Linda just bores me. Not much to work with when she’s all zen all the time

[limber dagger]

Idk why

Surprisingly, we get way more of Linda's personality in H5 than we do in the books.

One thing that has always bothered me is the fact that all the Spartans seem to have maintained their original childhood accents.

[humble yacht]

That’s common in fiction altogether

[limber dagger]

Lol i get it. Need to be able to distinguish them just by their voice. Still. Just not normal.

[humble yacht]

Very rare that a character’s voice changes from upbringing unless they’re trying to hide something

[limber dagger]

If anything, they would have developed a team wide accent.

[tacit charm]

unless your kelly who has both an american and brit accent

[limber dagger]

Very nitpicky though.

Doesnt actually matter. Just slightly annoying,

[strong tinsel]

How do some colonies have earth accents

[limber dagger]

Yeah, Kelly has a British accent. Linda has a texas drawl depending on the narrator.

[humble yacht]

Welcome to fiction

[limber dagger]

Lol there is some story where it describes ODSTs as being nearly unintelligible because their original accents all mix into one super accent that noone recognizes.

Maybe New Blood or Bad Blood. Or one of the short stories. I cant remember.

[strong tinsel]

Is there a colony with a russian accent

That'd be kinda funny

[pine comet]

Probably

[limber dagger]

The Earth accent thing makes sense to be honest. Some of the colonies are made up of populations that tend to come from one specific area of earth originally. Harvest was mainly populated by people from or who have roots in the Midwest of the US

Reach was mainly populated by people with Hungarian heritage.

[pine comet]

It is the united nations, you'll have different accents everywhere

[limber dagger]

I'm sure there is some colony or station where all of the population speaks english with a russian accent.

[strong tinsel]

dA cOmRade

[pine comet]

This reminds me of the capital of Earth, which I'm almost sure is Australia

[limber dagger]

Sydney lol

[pine comet]

Which is golden lol

[limber dagger]

Is Sydney the official capital of earth or is it just where ONI is based?

pretty sure its the captial, not sure though

[pine comet]

All I know is Australia is the capital country

[limber dagger]

capital**

[pine comet]

I kinda wanna know how they got united in the first place

Since that was before the covenant and all. Did it without a common enemy

[rough spire]

You know what space sounds cool

We should all come together and make some stuff so we can go to other planets

[pine comet]

We should take a page or two from their book

Like space man, that's pretty cool

[limber dagger]

It happened in the 2100's once Humanity started exploring and colonizing the solar system.

pretty sure Mars seeking complete independence is what caused it. Look up the origins of the UNSC on Halopedia. It describes how the UNSC was formed as well as how the United Earth Government was originally formed. Lots of good info.

[stable flower]

The Friedens and Koslovics

[limber dagger]

Yes, that was the main conflict I believe.

[pine comet]

Yeah I never really looked too hard into it

[limber dagger]

I honestly cant remember though. Its been a while since I read thru it.

It's really interesting to see how it all happened.

[strong tinsel]

Honestly id like to know more about the ueg itself

[limber dagger]

such as?

[noble fjord]

I find the concept of the red energy sword the Spartan Hunter uses strange

Isn't red plasma supposed to be unstable and stronger? How do they keep the blade shape

[limber dagger]

Stronger magnetic field generators presumably

[unique rune]

I don't think Halo's plasma has ever really been concerned with the implications of its color, though I could be misremembering.

Though I imagine red energy blades might not burn as intensely as conventional blue, or they're just fueled with some different gas or something.

[stable flower]

The red plasma is said to be cheaper (which fits the Banished, and also matches their main color)

[limber dagger]

If the "kill the boss means you get his weapon" thing applies to him, then im assuming we will get some actual lore surrounding it in the game.

[strong tinsel]

Silent shadow also used red energy swords

[limber dagger]

Ok, so what actually makes the banished seem "stronger" than the covenant? I dont really get it. How are they a bigger threat to humanity than cortana is? I have not played Halo Wars 2, but I have watched all the cutscenes. From what I can gather, they are basically just all very skilled warriors, but how does that make them stronger? Is it the fact that humanity is fighting a war on two fronts?

idk just seems like a bit of a plot hole to me.

If there is something i should read up on, let me know.

[unique rune]

So far I've just kinda attributed it to being pre-release marketing hype to drum up excitement and interest. I figure Infinite will probably have some more info on how the Banished have apparently gone from "ragtag pirate gang" to "GREATEST THREAT IN THE GALAXY" but even then I'm not sure how that's going to work out.

[strong tinsel]

Prob the 2 fronts thing and the fact most of the unsc was demilitarized by cortana

[limber dagger]

I mean, I'm all for a new villains, but not before we have decidedly taken care of the one we were already fighting lol

yeah probably. just gotta wait the few more weeks until release to find out

just seems odd to me

[pine comet]

I like to think it's because of how handicapped the UNSC is right now

[woven tulip]

Btw, i have a question Halo infinite is the continue of halo 4? ( i never played halo 5)

[limber dagger]

True, but why are the Banished not equally handicapped lol. Cortana has eyes and ears across the galaxy. Seems odd that she would allow them to operate.

[strong tinsel]

Banished go brrr

[stable flower]

That's what I'm saying lol. 343 is making them some sort of unstoppable menace or something, but I just can't feel that they are.

[pine comet]

Yes, it takes place during 2560 which is after 4 and 5

[woven tulip]

?

[pine comet]

It's a direct continuation after 5

[strong tinsel]

Prob not direct

[limber dagger]

Its a direct sequel to Halo 5 in terms of story. It seems like a spiritual sequel to CE in terms of game design and philosophy

[pine comet]

And Halo Wars 2 cause the banished I suppose

[limber dagger]

Direct sequel to Halo 5 and Halo Wars 2, actually

It ties to two stories together

[stable flower]

People actually think the Banished are unique but the Prometheans aren't.

[woven tulip]

soo halo 4 -> Halo 5 -> halo infinite? 😦

[pine comet]

Yes

Plus Halo Wars 2

[limber dagger]

Yes, but add Halo Wars 2 in with Halo 5

[woven tulip]

😢

[pine comet]

Watch a video on it if you can't play it

[woven tulip]

yeah i only have pc not xbox sadge

[limber dagger]

Lol i wouldnt worry about it being a sequel to H5 and its bad campaign. From every single non-spoiler "review" i can find from youtubers who were granted early access to the campaign, its an actually good story

and executed well

merras you can play on PC

[pine comet]

Tbh even I could just give you the bare minimum from 5, not much of it was important besides Cortana and the chief

[woven tulip]

halo 5 is exclusive to xbox?

[pine comet]

Yep

[limber dagger]

oh thought you meant Halo Infinite you cant play

[pine comet]

Well the campaign and multiplayer

[woven tulip]

yeah i stoped playing halo at 4, i never knew what was about cortana...

dont make me spoilers 🙂

[limber dagger]

lol just watch a recap video

[woven tulip]

[stable flower]

Banished are Covenant versions of insurrectionists so they should not be that powerful

[limber dagger]

there really isnt much you missed besides cortana after halo 4

[pine comet]

For 5?

[limber dagger]

you need to play or read up on halo 5 to understand what is going on in infinite, but only the main point of halo 5

the extra stuff was just fluff

you can watch a youtube video or two and be totally caught up

[pine comet]

Pretty much

[limber dagger]

Its important (unfortunately) but you dont need to go buy an xbox to get it sorted out. should take you less than 20 min lol

if you really dont want any spoilers for H5 at all, honestly i would jsut leave this discord then lol. its a 6 year old game. cant blame anyone for openly talking about it in here

[pine comet]

Well that's a little much, they can definitely watch something before somebody spoils it

[woven tulip]

about the spoilers i was talking about cortana, cuz i never knew what happened to her since halo 4

[pine comet]

Which is in Halo 5

I strongly suggest you watch a video

[limber dagger]

Yep, just watch a youtube video. literally search Halo 5 recap and youll be good lol

[woven tulip]

👍

[limber dagger]

bad man

[strong tinsel]

Who?

[limber dagger]

lol nothing someone put something about Jul then deleted quickly

[lunar drum]

Yea I deleted my own message. Wrong channel.

[strong tinsel]

Jul is unimportant anyways

[limber dagger]

YOU SHUT YOUR MOUTH

I love Jul

[strong tinsel]

Dont make me send my 100% ethical spartans

[limber dagger]

Or the (actually) reasonable NOVA

[strong tinsel]

Or my totally nonexistant midnight facility

[stable flower]

Jul and the Julettes were provoked by the UNSC

[strong tinsel]

Jul m'dama bad

He has no drip

Rtas vadum is the best elite

Change my mind

Or xytan jar watinree

Why no marty o donnel emoji

sad music noises

[limber dagger]

Rtas is true sigma material

Burn their mongrel hides!

[strong tinsel]

For him this was a even fight

[limber dagger]

The arbiter was sort of whiney in H2, still love him tho.

[strong tinsel]

Ehh

Not really

[limber dagger]

Lol he was so defeated and sad at first

once he realized the betrayal, then he became the arbiter we all know and love

Rtas had the best voice actor in all of Halo besides Chief. So good.

Steve Downs has a radio show in the area where im originally from. I used to listen to it all the time.

alr gotta go get a haircut, be back later

[strong tinsel]

Thats pretty sus

Oni agents dont HAVE hair!

[limber dagger]

Section 3 lies to the rest of ONI to keep them in line.

Dont believe all of the propaganda 😉

[strong tinsel]

hmmmm believe that

[sullen ridge]

the 2159C communicator is basically the nokia of 2560, “can be run over by a scorpion and still function”

[stable flower]

2558 is the 2020 of the 26th-century

[versed helm]

The Banished isn't stronger than what the Covenant was.

They lack that naval resources, as we know, they count with a formidable fleet with a supercarrier, so they're technically powerful.

But not like the Covenant, you see, In Halo Wars 2, right in the Phoenix Logs, is talked how the Covenant never truly faced the Banished, the Banished's tactics back since their creation on 2548 was looting and assaulting with efficiency and speed Covenant depots, small forts, bays and small groups of Covenant forces.

This would continue during the rest of the war, until it ended, then the Banished started recruiting more and more mercenaries, pirates, criminals and other groups of interest.

Along the way they got multiple vessels and ships, mainly corvettes, and from small scaled raiding they started attacking larger and larger objectives.

As years passed, more and more people joined their lines, and more places that they attacked constantly.

[sullen ridge]

the banished grew beyond a small guerilla group

and yes on that note humanity is stuck in a threeway standoff

[versed helm]

Mhm.

Now, back to the Created Conflict.

[sullen ridge]

the banished are just insult to injury

cortana on one side the banished on the other

[versed helm]

The Banished used the fragmentation of the UNSC made by Cortana as advantage, and they started destroying UNSC forces that were scattered across the systems.

On the end of Halo 5 and books is specified how most UNSC fleets were EMPed by Cortana's guardians.

With only a few escaping and surviving.

This groups were then destroyed by the Created or the Banished.

UNSC, as said, is scattered, shattered, destroyed and defeated by 2560.

They aren't a powerful force anymore, they are remnants.

The Banished always played smart with brilliant tactics.

And they still do.

[main rivet]

Standing forces are one thing. The means to equip them is another.

[versed helm]

^^

[main rivet]

It's kind of foolish to try and say which factions are "more powerful" when the games and most media don't go into anything about supply chains, maintenance, etc.

In practical standards, they're as powerful as they need to be to serve as antagonists in a game.

[versed helm]

UNSC remnants are still around, but they are divided and fragmented from each other, with the Banished and Created hunting them.

[main rivet]

The same way the Spirit of Fire and Banished in HW2 can put out a billion marines.

[versed helm]

Well, the Spirit of Fire is a Phoenix-Class, those can have 12k men aboard.

And the Banished had a CAS, which can have from 30k to 40k troops.

That's why there's tons of troops going all around.

[sullen ridge]

the banished prob got more than 1 CAS

too

[versed helm]

The reason why the Banished was never caught by Cortana is that they are always on the run and capable of escaping.

[versed helm]

I'm refering to the ark.

It's mentioned that they have a big formidable fleet somewhere.

With battlecruisers and at least a supercarrier.

Banished = chad.

If the Banished fought the Covenant in a frontal war, they would have been crushed from the beginning.

[twilit linden]

Anyone think that the Halo universe is somewhat similar to ancient times? Just reincarnations that took place lol quite curious. Especially Halsey & Chief

[versed helm]

Ancient times as ancient lore of halo?

Or as of ancient real history of humanity?

[twilit linden]

Ancient real history

[versed helm]

Huh, hm.

Well, Halo has some similarities to a few wars.

[twilit linden]

If you follow Greek Mythology

[versed helm]

Perhaps.

[twilit linden]

If you know your history and legends. You’d know about Greek & Egypt Mythology. I don’t believe in the Bible or it’s stories

You know the Bible was written out of context from those myths? Lol I’m stating a logical fact here. I understand where you’re getting at.

If you recognize the major similarities with open eyes and an open mind. You’ll see a lot of crazy stuff. Just like the Bible doesn’t state anything about reincarnations and that reincarnation is not a thing but Master Chief is a Reincarnation of an ancient General who gains memory from the librarian.
Which is another mystery about Doctor Halsey and how she knows things more than she shows especially her focus John

I’m 33 years old. So don’t mind me lol

[gilded mason]

but Master Chief is a Reincarnation of an ancient General who gains memory from the librarian.
wut

[sullen ridge]

Halsey has always had a more scientific interest in John than the other spartans

and yes bible is a bunch of hocus lmao

[twilit linden]

yes the chief is a reincarnation of a general

[sullen ridge]

wasn't it bornstellar

[twilit linden]

I believe so

[sullen ridge]

aka IsoDidact

[twilit linden]

It is General Bornstellar

If you base Halo from real history. It throws the Bible stories out of the ball park. Especially the relationship between Chief and Halsey

Halsey knows more in-depth information about the Chief all the way down to his DNA and where he actually originated from. Why why she have a strong interest about the Spartans? When the Spartans originated in Greece. She knows a lot more than what is in front of you. That’s why ONI is trying to cover up because of the exposure

[sullen ridge]

Halsey is all but dumb

and oni is oni

[gilded mason]

He is not.

[twilit linden]

Exactly

Yes The Master Chief is General Bornstellar @gilded mason

[gilded mason]

What's the source for that?

That only got popular because Halo Follower tried to say it.

[twilit linden]

If you have logical sense of putting pieces of a puzzle together. You’d know what to look for.

Here’s another spoil. Where do you think Spartan117 aka John came from during the creation of halo?

[gilded mason]

...

[sullen ridge]

a human womb one eridanus 2

[twilit linden]

The movie “Demolition Man”

[sullen ridge]

that's where he came from

[gilded mason]

Nothing supports John being Bornstellar's reincarnation

[sullen ridge]

yes

who is probably dead

[twilit linden]

Lol

Demolition Man helped Bungie and the creators pick the name and call sign for the Chief

And this is what you get for being old

[gilded mason]

And how would that even work

[twilit linden]

That’s like saying the halo lore is based on the Bible. But the Bible is made up of stories that was created and washed down from by the Romans then to the Jews.

If you know your mythology and legends. You can see the bigger picture of Halo. I’ve been a Halo fan for over 2 decades.

Put the puzzles of history together and see what history is repeating itself

[gilded mason]

You're not saying anything.

[twilit linden]

It’s brain logic actually

And science and knowing what to look for

[gilded mason]

I'm just asking you to explain your actual reasoning. It shouldn't be hard.

[twilit linden]

But I did state my reasoning. Look how history in the halo lore is repeating itself and pay attention to the people of interest. It’s a mystery puzzle that if you put the puzzle together it shows a bigger picture if you have an open mind.

[gilded mason]

You don't have any evidence, got it.

[twilit linden]

You’re not much of a critical thinker are ya? It shows when you’re trying to bash someone with logical sense and has been a hardcore halo fan since the beginning. I’m done talkin to ya kid

[gilded mason]

Bye. 👋

[twilit linden]

Lol

Random

[sullen ridge]

another topic, the stuff librarian did to John on requiem both giving him immunity to the composer and undoing the genetic devolution the forerunners once did on humans

doesn't it basically make John the same as a human during the forerunner human war

[twilit linden]

Which was why the Didact kinda freaked out about it lol

[gilded mason]

and undoing the genetic devolution the forerunners once did on humans
We really don't know anything about that part. All we know she did was give the immunity and "accelerated his evolution". Nothing about what that entails.

[sullen ridge]

“The Librarian also provided John with a gift: a medical treatment to counteract the Forerunners' devolution of the human genome, and a means to resist the effects of the Composer.”

taken with a few grains of salt

[gilded mason]

Where'd ya read that?

[twilit linden]

Correct.

[gilded mason]

Ah, Halopedia

[twilit linden]

The smallest of details in the lore with any open mind can see the bigger picture of what’s going on

[sullen ridge]

where else, hence the grains of salt lmao

[twilit linden]

Lol the halopedia breaks it down so it’s more understandable to the normal people

[gilded mason]

Admin just gave the go ahead to nuke that first part.

[twilit linden]

Not sure. Basing logic in halo lore and similarities to its history. So who knows

[silk sundial]

So I was told that the game Exo One is a game that failed at having lore crossed between halo and destiny, I have just finished the game as of yesterday and the lore is very confusing

[twilit linden]

Lol. The Halo Lore is very confusing unless you know how or what to look for. But it’s quite interesting to see the similarities of the Halo history to the current situation in Halo story.

[versed helm]

Well, technically those things are practical and fiction rather than random gods making humans cause yes.

The Precursors are species from other Galaxies that achieved great feats.

And made a lot of sentient life on this Galaxy.

[versed helm]

I don't remember that part.

Wanna know why Chief was capable of opening forerunner doors and using that type of technology without previous knowledge about them?

Well, it's pretty much that the Librarian altered the genetics of certain individuals in the past.

Giving Chief this 'internal' knowledge without him even knowing it.

[twilit linden]

Yeah I know lol. It just makes logical sense as to what is happening to the Chief

[versed helm]

It is never said that Chief is the re-incarnation of someone.

It's just altered DNA and genetics and the Librarian's work.

Some sort of destiny in words.

[gilded mason]

And not to mention...there's no way for John to somehow get Bornstellar's geas. He died far away in another galaxy living isolated with his wife and child.

[versed helm]

Puzzles and pieces are called theories.

Therefore we can't accept that this is true.

So the logic thing doesn't really apply.

Technically, all is this thanks to the Precursors.

[gray sedge]

Imagine if the librarian just kept bornstellars genes in a cold storage for 100 millennium

[versed helm]

Since they modified the geas of Forerunners and the Librarian.

Then the Librarian did the same with other species.

And ta-daa! The current time!

[twilit linden]

Exactly. Here’s an example. It was said in legend that King Leonidas was a “descendent” of hercules.

[versed helm]

The thing is that those are myths.

[gray sedge]

Several kings claimed they were gods

It’s a way of ensuring power

[versed helm]

The Librarian in some way manipulated the actions of Humanity.

[versed helm]

Mhm.

People are slaves of gods.

Slaves of the creators of said gods.

[gray sedge]

So the librarian from beyond the dead had the power to make one specific human part forerunner and that human later became a spartan

[versed helm]

Which is not good for what my low IQ says.

[gray sedge]

Either the librarian can see the future

[versed helm]

Yeah.

[gray sedge]

Or was incredibly lucky

[versed helm]

The Librarian said it was thousands of lifespans of planning.

[gray sedge]

Wait maybe John gets his ‘luck’ from forerunners

[versed helm]

Yeah lol

[gray sedge]

That would make sense

[versed helm]

Mhm

[twilit linden]

Therefore it means something is true

[gray sedge]

I just did a thing about theory stuff

Woo

[versed helm]

Ancient lore is so freaking weird.

[gilded mason]

His luck is just a nod to him being the main character. Not really anything more to it.

[gray sedge]

Like magic and ghosts and reincarnation

[gilded mason]

Can't really make "luck" genetic

[gray sedge]

Honestly considering forerunner lore it could be

[versed helm]

Well, who knows.

There's souls.

There's geas.

[twilit linden]

Lol

[gray sedge]

Souls and reincarnation and borderline magic

[versed helm]

There's stuff that are VERY WEIRD.

Magic in Halo is technically science.

[gray sedge]

Halo is borderline fantasy in forerunner era

[versed helm]

Halo is a HARD SCI FI.

It is pretty much explained that this are scientific theories of sorts.

[twilit linden]

Pretty much

[versed helm]

So until we know that this scientific theories are true or not, it is very hard sci fi.

[twilit linden]

You need an open mind for this

[gray sedge]

It plays out a lot like Star Wars when it teachers the forerunner times (Star Wars is a LOT more soft sci-fi with elements like magic and luck and spirits)

[versed helm]

Forerunner magic is the manipulation of a lot of things.

[twilit linden]

I agree with you @gray sedge

[versed helm]

Like magnetism and gravity.

[gray sedge]

Precursors creating the flood when they were overthrown was literal magic

No other description

[versed helm]

They turned themselves into dust.

Dust = flood.

[gray sedge]

And that dust became the bloody flood

[versed helm]

It's a very weird way of creation.

[gray sedge]

No less than magic

[twilit linden]

Or creating Halo in general to prevent the flood from spreading. But they have every gene from human down to atoms

[versed helm]

We must assume is science since this sort of things are left un-explained until decades later.

[twilit linden]

There’s a lot factors that play in this about the lore in halo.

[versed helm]

For the sake of science.

[twilit linden]

Lol

[gray sedge]

It loses the hard sci-fi believability is lost when you pass the 100,000 years barrier

[twilit linden]

Exactly

[versed helm]

Lol.

[gray sedge]

And fantasy/mythological Elemis become common place

[versed helm]

For the sake of science, we must assume is totally scientific!

[twilit linden]

Look at our current generation in reality for example. History is being repeated & people base everything on religion than facts. Look at the oldest of mythologies that science today still can’t get the facts

[versed helm]

Well technically, it's science in much ways.

The precursors created a lot of life.

They manipulated physics.

They could change their forms and shapes at own will.

[twilit linden]

They have their reasons and purposes

[versed helm]

There's no clear explanation other that they reached such high technological level.

[twilit linden]

But they also proved that in some way reincarnation plays a factor

[gray sedge]

You sound like a certain sadistic robot from a famous series of games by valve that released from 2007-2011

[versed helm]

They are transsentient.

[versed helm]

The thing is that I'm male.

And that I'm not held by a group of pipes attached into a rooftop.

[gray sedge]

Well than you are small English robot when he steals big sadist robots body

[twilit linden]

Lol wtf

[versed helm]

ok makes sense

[twilit linden]

Everything is based on logic and looking for stuff that doesn’t stick out to normal people who claim they have to see “proof”

[gray sedge]

Also one question WHY THE HELL did the UNSC keep the halos for research

[gilded mason]

They remove the indexs of those they find

[twilit linden]

Because ONI is government that’s why

[versed helm]

Precursors were transsentient and used neural physics which let them manipulate physics and forces at their own will.

[gray sedge]

Ahh yes let’s not dismantle or blow up the life destroyers

[twilit linden]

Lol

[gray sedge]

ONI are war criminals not suicidal

[versed helm]

Let's say, they would find landed vessels of the Forerunner in the deepness of the rings. Wanna guess what happens then?

[gray sedge]

Your navy become powerful

[versed helm]

Simple. They achieve all that knowledge and technology capable of erasing life with a click of fingers.

[gray sedge]

But still you have a life destroyer that exists

[versed helm]

Well, you can use it.

[gray sedge]

There is no way that all life in the galaxy is worth a bigger military

[versed helm]

They can just disable them forever.

[gray sedge]

True

[twilit linden]

You aren’t wrong about that. That’s why they try to shut things down that are logic and true from getting that negative PR. They will do anything to suppress any forms of truth

[versed helm]

Remove activation index and activation stuff. Which is what they did.

ONI has it's own reasons, and it's for the Humanity's own good.

[gray sedge]

As we see in halo 3 index’s are cross combatable

[unique rune]

Ehhhh. Debatably.

[versed helm]

ONI isn't evil, they will protect Humanity at any cost.

[gray sedge]

I forgot that there is no point to destroying rings since they do get replaced

[twilit linden]

Has anyone listen to the Hunt the truth series?

[versed helm]

Yes.

[twilit linden]

Same

[unique rune]

04's Index may have worked for 08 because the latter was meant to be the replacement for 04.
Whether or not this holds true for other rings is unknown.

[versed helm]

They hide the truth for reasons.

[versed helm]

^^^

This makes that the same index might work on Installation 09.

[gray sedge]

ONI is basically a human supremacist group #Alien Lives Matter

[versed helm]

And then 010 cause we know I09 will be destroyed.

[twilit linden]

Lmao

[versed helm]

LOL

[gray sedge]

Again we will probably never know the answer

[twilit linden]

I had to know this stuff for my conscription process for the SII program training. Such a pain

And I got hated for it lmao

[versed helm]

Halo's main objective is to not let there to be seven rings. #Six_Rings_Only

I04? Destroyed.
I08? Blown up.
I09? Soon to be obliterated.

Mark my words :troll:

[gray sedge]

in David Attenborough voice Poor Grunty the Grunt has been starving for 14 days due to the actions of ONI, please donate an arbitrary amount of credits to the number below

[versed helm]

no

Jiralhanae Supremacy here!

Vote for Jiralhanae Government!

[twilit linden]

Spartan law over all!

[versed helm]

Brutes shall dominate.

[versed helm]

Eugh, we don't need augmentations to be cool.

[gray sedge]

Reduce them to one ring so you have ONE RING TO RULE THEM ALL, ONE RING TO FIND THEM, ONE RING TO BRING THEM ALL AND IN THE DARKNESS BIND THEM

[versed helm]

We got our super weapon, the BRUTE.

[gray sedge]

You brutes lack honour

Wort Wort Wort

[versed helm]

Craig.

[gray sedge]

May the Arbiter rule strong

[versed helm]

uh, i think we uh

[twilit linden]

Lol. I was trained to fight at 7 years old. I have my history that is left unsaid for good reasons

[versed helm]

this is not a lore discussion anymore

[gray sedge]

Craig is a metal artist, he has retained honour

[versed helm]

beg for the mods to not appear

Alright, new topic.

[twilit linden]

Lol. Wonder what the story will be in the Halo Infinite

[gray sedge]

This has become the halo lore bits strange chat where we talk about anything

[gray sedge]

It will be about Craig trying to make his way in the music industry

[twilit linden]

Sad face

[stable flower]

Created conflict seems to be axed out as 343 wants to force the Banished on us

[versed helm]

Ever wondered what is the payment of Spartans?

[fallen horizon]

A sick robot suit

[gray sedge]

The created was an uprising that de-stabilised the galaxy and allowed the banished to fight guerrilla wars against everyone

[gray sedge]

Food and Not being executed

Yeah it’s depressing

I wonder if any elites moved to earth after the war

Like for immigration since sanghelios became a war zone

[honest trout]

But they do get paid which I find hilarious even saw a meme about it once

[gilded mason]

Some did, yes

[gray sedge]

I could imagine one trying to get a fully legal job as something like a bloody office worker

Or should I say wortker

[twilit linden]

If it came to saving humanity no matter the cost. There wouldn’t be a payment for saving the human race

[versed helm]

Wdym? For Orion-IV?

[twilit linden]

Thankfully I’ll stick with the SII’s

[versed helm]

Spartans-I such as Johnson are UNSC Volunteers, therefore they get regular payment depending on the rank, although they might get bonus.

Spartans-II aren't paid since ONI and UNSC provides them all they need, though on retirement they might get paid a lot.

Spartans-III are likely not paid initially since they are meant to be expendable, but thanks to quotes we know that the survivors of the program or those that have been serving for much time get paid.

Spartans-IV are likely paid depending on the rank as they are some sort of volunteer special forces troops.

Also, did you knew that a credit is around 0.7 dollars? This is all a theory of course, but it's a calculation based upon quotes and words of the developers and characters, coming from books, novels and comics and official social media.

Orion and IV probably get paid better than ODSTs

Spartan-I unlikely.

Spartans-IV likely.

Jonnah and Roland would bet in each mission and operation credits depending on certain objectives.

This tells us that those that survived in the Spartan-III Program were paid.

[honest trout]

the IIs were paid too it’s mentioned as a plot point in silent storm

[versed helm]

Credits are around 0.6 dollars, this is taken from the price that costs the objects, prices that are mentioned by Bungie randomly in some posts.

[fallen horizon]

What is Master Chief's last name?

[versed helm]

But then it's a theory.

[versed helm]

No ideam

[fallen horizon]

John Halo

[valid hemlock]

117

[honest trout]

Officially it’s 117

Like on documents and everything

[versed helm]

No one knows

[fallen horizon]

Imagine having a family called the 117's

[versed helm]

Johnson says that his payment makes him capable of living in a good comfortable apartment on Chicago with his parents. And his payment is equally the one to a sergeant.

Poor Johnson, not only they gave him one rock and two sticks, but also he was financially exploited.

And he had to share the rock.

Down with the UNSC!!

[noble fjord]

How did ONI hide the glassing of New Mombasa?

Like how do you explain the Elites having to glass half a continent

[bronze warren]

Space mushroom baf

bad

[unique rune]

They wrote it off as a Covenant attack, probably.

[stable flower]

And he didn't get the chance to hook up with Angela Basset like he was promised in Halo 4

[versed helm]

Well after New Mombasa attacks, the Covenant attacked the whole planet and basically invaded Earth.

It was the Battle of Earth.

They never hidded I guess.

[pine comet]

It was told as a covenant attack

[light sleet]

The wiki does mentioned it's blacked out on a list with Spartan-IIs and their last names but you can still just based on how long it's blacked out it's probably more than seven characters (I think)

Something that really confuses me when I replay the bungie games is that they make it seem that the forerunners ARE ancient humans (especially when you consider guilty spark's and the gravemind's lines in halo 3 about inheritance and "a father's sins passed to his sun") but in 343 games the forerunners and ancient humans are clearly different species.

So...are the lines in the old games non canon or is there a lore explanation for this? I have a feeling it has to do with the mantle of responsibility and precursors (especially since humanity is supposed to reclaim the "mantle")

[unique rune]

Bungie kinda went back and forth on the relationship between humans and Forerunners. By Halo 3 they’d generally shifted to them being separate, so the idea was that humanity was supposed to be the Forerunner’s chosen successors.

The lines are still canon but you have to do some mild handwaving to make them 100% work. Stuff like attributing Spark’s dialogue to him having gone a little loopy after eons of isolation.

[terse lava]

@light sleet yeah like Nova said, it was Bungie who never nailed down what they wanted the Forerunners to be. By h3, they tried to have their cake and eat it too

[errant tendon]

i wonder how chief's Mark v looked like in Infinite's artstyle

[unique rune]

It’d just look like the existing Mk.V armor

[frozen charm]

What order do I play the campaigns in?

[urban walrus]

Well if your talking chronologically then reach, CE, H2, H3 and so on

But really any order is fine nobody is going to care which way you do it

[versed helm]

how did someone become a spartan 4?

[unique rune]

They get recruited for the program, augmented, and trained

[versed helm]

i mean how did they choose the recruits?

[unique rune]

Existing service record and accomplishments, showing some kind of potential.

In very rare cases, nepotism.

[vivid mauve]

Play in order of release

[fathom isle]

I’d play chronological 👁️👃👁️

[sullen ridge]

hence why a good amount of odst's got chosen

[strong tinsel]

Why do odsts act more mature than spartan 4s

[keen warren]

Because Spartan V's think they're above everybody.

I'm annoyed this hasn't played more into a lot of them biting it because they're overconfident.

I'm sorry, I just don't like the V's. It feels like Syndromes plan worked in the Halo universe.

[versed helm]

Well, they don't.

In 3 ODST they are like teenagers.

But it's well made, un-like Halo 4.

[keen warren]

Hey, I liked 4 for the most part.

[versed helm]

Spartans Four and ODSTs are serious, not in-mature like in the games.

As they proved in the books, novels and comics to act serious and mature.

[stark mountain]

Yeah you only see a handful of Spartans or odsts per game

Not rly fair to judge a generation of Spartans off a couple you met in halo 4

[keen warren]

They aren't so hot in 5 either.

[stark mountain]

5 all around wasn’t so hot

But still a small percentage of that generation

[unique rune]

Osiris doesn’t act particularly immature in 5’s campaign so I’m not sure what that’s about in the first place.
They’re… generally pretty respectful.

Heck, outside of DeMarco and Madsen being sorta annoying dudebro types, most S-IVs really haven’t been that egregious in terms of characterization.

People throw fits over Palmer’s “I thought you’d be taller” line, but I mean… it’s just some light ribbing that also emphasizes the reputation that the Chief had built up.

[spiral jewel]

Plus I'm sure Palmer and Chief fought together at some point and have mutual respect for each other

[sly hawk]

"Did the Master Chief succeed because at his core, he was broken?" -Paraphrase from Halo 4's Halsey's interrogation scene.

The Spartan 4's will never be as good as the previous generations because of that. The mentality they had of always mission first allowed them to push further always. While the Spartan 4's have too much... personality. They are still better than any normal solider could be, and their tech is at its peak. but there's a reason Blue team is THE team, and even the hand picked specialist spartan 4 team was essentially defeated by a lone spartan 2.

The mentality is what gives them a huge edge. There is no hesitation or panic. You saw that fireteam majestic in spartan ops were constantly getting pushed back or even stalled by things that even a spartan 3 team, twenty years ago with no shield tech yet could get by.

[strong tinsel]

In spartan ops, the spartan 4s (i forgot which team) were also not wearing helmets in a hostile enviroment

[main garnet]

why does the mjolnir helmet appear on forerunner technology

[sly hawk]

exactly, big dum dum move.

[sullen ridge]

if you know the lore well enough you know that odst's are all but mature, they have a real hard pack mentality and generally don't get along well with non odst's and some still don't like the s2's because of an inferiority complex

[sly hawk]

mostly bad writing

[limber dagger]

Also, Spartan 4's are just normal people who lead normal lives up until they joined up for the war effort. They got married, had kids, had cookouts etc etc. Of course they are going to have individual personalities, some bad habits, and act like hot shots. They are the Navy Seals and Delta Team of the 26th century.

[sullen ridge]

s2's got kidnapped and indoctrinated

[limber dagger]

Their indoctrination level is just way less.

[sly hawk]

It's sad even the Dudebro ODST;s have more battle sense than spartan 4's, there are always exceptions but in general

[sullen ridge]

they got the standard military ethic etc but they weren't subjected to it since age 6

s2's have barely known anything else

[sly hawk]

its messed up but Halsey was right. noone is saying spartan 4;s are nothing, but the difference in S2 and S3 versus S4 even with all the S4 upgrades is almost staggering

[limber dagger]

OSDT training is much more fleshed out than Spartan training. They are a much older, more established branch. A large portion of S4's are ODSTs lol. I mean how would you feel and act if all of a sudden you were 6 inches taller, strong enough to flip a car over with ease, and wore a suit of armor worth more than most people make in a lifetime. I see why they are cocky and a bit silly sometimes.

[sly hawk]

S3;s are probs the best of all, they not only had the indoc. but a personal stake as well since most wanted vengence from the covenant. but thier augmentations were not as good as the S2

[limber dagger]

Also, there is now a path to go straight from civilian life to Spartan 4.

[sullen ridge]

not straight

[sly hawk]

Very true, maybe S4 gen 3's will be a truly worthy successors. but so far the personality still clashes.

[limber dagger]

So full grown adults who have never served in the military all of a sudden are supersoldiers. I can see why the ego's get inflated lol.

Hell my head might pop if that happened to me lmao

[sly hawk]

The best spartan 4 teams are the ex spartan 3's that "upgraded".

the S2 and S3 also have the added benefit of years to get used to the implants. they were scared of them more, had to learn to control it though the pain. S4 implants are more like " k wake up, here are drugs, k now go flip car bye bye"

[limber dagger]

Yeah the augmentation procedures are much more optimized now, and with the enhancements to MJOLNIR, they are physically on par with the Spartan 2's while in armor. Now they just need to develop the combat experience and mission philosophy of a true elite special forces team.

[sly hawk]

Also most S2 and S3 were basically playing swat most of their careers lol. it wasn't until halo 2 ish that most even got shields.

so that need to make no mistakes was higher

[limber dagger]

Shielding on MJOLNIR was introduced in 2552, right before Reach was attacked.

Technically, while Reach was being attacked, but thats just a little conflict between Halo Reach and The Fall of Reach.

[sly hawk]

Introduced, not widespread, lots of people have that misconception, thats why 117 was in cryo, he had to get the surgery to get AI and shielding implants. the vast majority still had no shields

[limber dagger]

See thats where the lore between the books and the games contradicts. John was given new MJOLNIR with sheilding and Cortana just at a normal military base in TFoR.

[sly hawk]

Armor lock was the closest thing, thats why it was so sought after by Spartans, as well as some of the other equipment.

even in the game reach, techincally non of them except gorge, kat cuz she basically stole it, and MAYBE 6 would have the first gen shields. but the game just gives everyone sheilds

Halo Wars non of RED team has sheilds

but they have shields in gameplay

[limber dagger]

Lol Reach also had all of Nobel team as officers as well, which has never happened anywhere ever. There were not supposed to be any Spartan 2 officers besides Kurt (and then Fred), but all of a sudden Jorge was in Reach. I love the game, but it's canon is sketchy when it comes to the details. I understand and accept that it is canon, but the way some of it was done is just dumb honestly.

[sly hawk]

then there is the Halo 4 plot hole, S117 has the new gen 2 armor despite being MiA for like 5 years.

[limber dagger]

That was explained by Cortana using nano upgrade tech to completely upgrade his armor while he was in cryo.

[sly hawk]

Yeah thats nuts, Gorge kinda made sense but i didnt even know all of noble were officers.

[limber dagger]

Which is silly

[limber dagger]

Yep, it's an entirely officer made team.

[sly hawk]

"nano upgrade tech" aka writers cop out.

[limber dagger]

Plot armor. Which is fine honestly. Thats what sci-fi is all about, and as long as it's reasonable, i'm not gonna cry over it. But yeah sometimes it is kind of funny.

They can't explain every single detail, otherwise it would take 10 years to write anything.

they just need to come up with reasonable explanations when asked questions or explain things in later books

[sly hawk]

Well i still cry about it, it would have been so easy to just have him in classic gen 1 for literally the first 2 missions, gets onto the infinity that has ALL the experimental stuff, and be like "oh hey master chief have a new set of the gen 2 armor yours is super outdated!"

[limber dagger]

but yeah, 343 considers all of TFoR and Halo: Reach to be canon, when there are parts that directly and completely contradict each other.

And yes that would have been the much better way to do it

[sly hawk]

aka literlly the openeing of halo 2

[limber dagger]

The main, most recognizable contradiction being that the ending of Halo: Reach is impossible if TFoR is canon lol.

[sly hawk]

TfoR was good but had some glaring narrative issuses in itself, still loved it but yeah they could have cleaned it up a bit more. Maybe even hinted that TFoR was from one point of view but not the whole story or something/

[limber dagger]

Cortana was already on the ship. Nobel team never had to go drop her off. She was on the ship before the conflict even started. Also, John was picked up in space, not on the ground.

[limber dagger]

oh yeah there are issues with TFoR as well. The book still says 2542 for when John got sheilding and Cortana lol

[sly hawk]

The Reach games narrative i think is better. they should just rerelease TFoR with ONLY the plot holes fixed. and leave the rest untouched. the date problems however the community already fixed, TFoR was in military time while the game was in planet time. it lines up well enough

[limber dagger]

Actually, the book says John got shielding and cortana on August 30th 2542 (s/b 2552). August 30th is literally the day Reach fell to the covenant lol

The battle lasted over a month lmao

yeah its just a mess

I would love that tho. If the book just released and retconned the plot issues and made the game and the book line up correctly.

because there are unexplainable contradictions right now

lol just retype what you said or DM it to me

the bot in here is awful

change up the wording tho

lmao

yeah just DM it to me

[sly hawk]

wow it really doesnt like that word

[limber dagger]

i dont even know what you said

careful tho, you have 2 strikes and if you get a 3rd then you will be muted for a week or something

[sly hawk]

i was saying they should just have chief get the operation earlier, and go sleepy bye until cortana wakes his space diaper up on the autumn.

[limber dagger]

true...that would completely eliminate his operation on Gamma station with the Circumference tho. They can make it all line up, they just need to change some dates around.

Cortana already being on the ship, however, is pretty unreconcilable with Nobel Teams mission. They would have to remove Cortana from the initial battle entirely.

If they eliminate the operation on the space station to destory the nav data base, the Linda never dies and gets revived as well.

[sly hawk]

it can still kinda work, just have her doing it all from where halsey was, before they blew.... i forgot the name of the base, not sword base though

[limber dagger]

Castle

[sly hawk]

yeah there, it can still line up, meanwhile the gamme station battle just move up the time line, and they have chief undergo the surgery while they ship her to earth or something instead of having them essentially floating though space for a while

heck they could even have linda get shipped to fred

[limber dagger]

I think they would need to move the station battle for the nav data base into First Strike when John returns to Reach after Halo.

And rewrite how Fred's Red Team got to Reach entirely.

it can be done, would jsut be a massive effort to shift events and times around

and then rerelease the books obviously

[sly hawk]

I honestly dont even know why they bother to have them return to reach honestly. they had all the stations in the outer rim, they already knew reach was falling. if anything just have them meet the autumn on the way to reach AT a station, where linda and fred basically get dropped of and cheif is in cryo on the autumn cuz cortana wants him there. then 6 does the delivery

how did fred even orginally get off reach with red team, i dont remember

[limber dagger]

Because John came back to Reach to find his team and to garner intelligence.

He couldn’t just leave them there.

[sly hawk]

yeah just have him know they are on a station safe and not needing to go back to reach, but will go with his team minus linda to help out MAYBE

or just evacing a vital asset, maybe even Jun

[twilit linden]

You also have to remember John wasn’t the only Spartan on board the Autumn though. Linda was also in critical condition after the ambush with the covenant on Reach.

[lament hornet]

Critical condition is an understatement. Being frozen in cryo was the only reason she had a chance to survive. Allowed her time to get to Halsey, who performed life-saving surgery on her, replacing all the organs destroyed, after being fried from plasma blasts

[twilit linden]

Pretty much

[main rivet]

A lot of First Strike makes more sense when you realize Nylund had to stay well clear of the story Bungie was going to tell in Halo 2, and how that story was in flux throughout development.

Going back to Reach was a pretty safe option. I’m fairly certain the time travel is another method of adding a safety margin to the timeline, but I’ve never actually seen Nylund answer a question on that point, sadly he didn’t respond to interview requests for our retrospective series. And Trautmann just chalked it up to mistakes and a tight production schedule, which doesn’t seem to fit.

[limber dagger]

I feel like Bungie's story choices for Reach were a bit of a middle finger to the books. They just blatantly contradicted a bunch of established lore and timelines. I know they weren't fans of the books in general, but man they just completely ignored them lol.

But now, since 343 considers both Halo Reach and TFoR to be canon, we have directly contradicting canon lol. It's a bit of a mess when it comes to Reach.

[light sleet]

I guess if you had to choose which was canon - Reach or the books, which would you pick?

[limber dagger]

I would pick the video game to be the main canon and rework the book to make it make sense with the game.

I personally like the books story more, but it would be way easier to change up the book than the video game lol

85-90% of the book is perfectly fine and doesn't contradict anything. It's the last like 6th of the book that screws things up.

When John met Cortana, the battle of august 30th etc etc.

[light sleet]

Oh for sure sure - when I reread the book all I thought was “wait…isn’t there a covenant invasion happening already?”

I think it was Halo Canon who did a good job of tying together both the books and halo each game

[fair hazel]

No it’s the game that messes stuff up

[limber dagger]

Yes, it does lol. Im just saying it would be easier to rerelease the book than remake the video game lol

[fair hazel]

They definitely did try to have their cake and eat it too

[limber dagger]

sorry ping

I think it would just be way easier to rework the timeline shown in the book and rewrite a chapter or two in order to make it make sense with the game. It would be a massive effort to rework the game to come in line with the book. I think just reworking the book would also cause way fewer issues with the overall canon as well. It would just be the path of least resistance

[fair hazel]

They took elements from the books while also trying to undo them

[light sleet]

I have a feeling that is pretty much Bungie’s answers to plot holes and ambiguous questions (at least regarding the fall of reach and forerunner-human relations)

[fair hazel]

Book over game please

[limber dagger]

@light sleet turn off pings when tagging the mods. Theres a rule against it.

[humble yacht]

How about all canon equal

[light sleet]

Same. Honestly I’ve always found the halo books to be much better than games sometimes. Sometimes.

[limber dagger]

In a perfect world, yes, but Halo Reach and TFoR directly contradict each other in some areas. One has to be wrong.

[light sleet]

Sorry about the pinging, my bad

[humble yacht]

I don’t think the contradictions are that bad

[gaunt oak]

To disable the ping/tag when replying, please click or tap the "on" button at the right hand side of the chat box in order to turn it off.
For users on PC, if you hold Shift while clicking reply the tag will be automatically turned off.

[versed helm]

master chief and his virtual girlfriend fight aliens?

[limber dagger]

Ehh idk man the ending of the book and the ending of Halo Reach completely contradict each other.

[humble yacht]

How so

You mean the autumn?

[limber dagger]

Noble Team's mission to deliver cortana to the pillar of autumn couldnt have happened. Cortana was on the PoA before the battle even started.

[humble yacht]

She split herself

Halsey only had a fragment, the rest of her was on the autumn

[limber dagger]

The game shows John already in cryo when they leave, but John was picked up in space in the book and they immediately left the system afterwards.

[humble yacht]

That Easter egg is confirmed non canon

Just an Easter egg

[limber dagger]

But the PoA was already in space on August 30th lol