lore-and-universe

[humble yacht]

Radiation attacks dna

Unless your armor has lead plating or something that block radiation, there’s no shrugging it off

In terms of Kat, the working theory is that the glassing beam produced an emp that disabled her shields. Emps being produced from sudden bursts of radiation is actually pretty normal. Nuclear blasts produce emps

[versed helm]

How long do nuclear emps last

[humble yacht]

And emp is a transient event

The pulse happens and radiates outward until it dispersed

The pulse is a form of light so it moves at the speed of light, meaning the pulse Itself lasts a very short amount of time

The effects can be lasting, depending on the technology

[empty bloom]

I maintain that it should be retconned that a Beam Rifle did her in. The elite’s carrying a focus rifle that somehow fired a Needler rifle round.

[humble yacht]

Beam rifles don’t exist in reach

[jovial cave]

Wasn't that sniper a kig yar tho?

[humble yacht]

No

It was a zealot

[jovial cave]

._.

Ok

[humble yacht]

Possibly the Field Marshal

[jovial cave]

why would a field marshal be a sniper tho?

[humble yacht]

Elites can use more than one weapon

[jovial cave]

Yeah, but "field marshal"

Or is their definition of the word different?

[versed helm]

He's just the Zealot in charge

[empty bloom]

I know. That’s the entire point of my statement.

There’s no Beam Rifles in Reach, Kat was killed by a Needler rifle round, fired by an elite who is visually holding a focus rifle; Needler rounds don’t overpen MJOLNIR armor.

Visually, the Focus Rifle is relatively close to the beam rifle, which was canonically a weapon in existence at the time but didn’t show up in the game. A needle rifle can’t overpen MJOLNIR armor like that, shields or no, so it should be retconned that the Field Marshall sniped Kat with a Beam Rifle. It just makes more sense.

[humble yacht]

Canonically, needle rounds do in fact pierce MJOLNIR

Daisy died to like 3 needles in her chest

Just the piercing, no supercombine

Obviously with that reach scene the discrepancy between the round and the weapon firing it is a cinematic oversight, shouldn’t be taken too seriously

[empty bloom]

She wasn’t overpenned by it to such an insane degree, for one, and for two, I’m as inclined to take that with a grain of salt on how it happened as I was with Reach.

We’ve had Needler Rifle rounds bouncing off of ODST plate before, more than once. It’s outright absurd to believe it’d have no trouble overpenning through a MJOLNIR helmet.

[humble yacht]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Like I said, it shouldn’t be taken too seriously

Oversights happen

I also can’t say I’ve ever seen a needle rifle round bounce off an odst

[empty bloom]

Halo Reach is weird; You can bounce DMR and Needle rounds into Soldier and ODST helmets all day.

They’ll be fine.

[jovial cave]

But when it comes to spartans...

[humble yacht]

That could very well be a mechanic to prevent kills against friendly AI

[empty bloom]

There’s also a scene in Glasslands where the civilian they have with them gets domed and hit by Needle Rifle rounds fired by jackal pirates, and is fine, though not feeling great.

The rounds pointedly bounce off of the helmet.

Which is usually the more relevant scene.

[spiral jewel]

What species is the Harbinger exactly? All I can tell is that she appears to be wearing a Mjolnir Gen 2 Tech suit that looks 5x too big for her

[humble yacht]

We don’t know

All we can do for now is speculate

[spiral jewel]

I've seen the idea of her being either Prelate, precursor or Forerunner being bounced around, but neither of the three look like her

[versed helm]

Inb4 it's Cortana who went even crazieeer

How many PHDs does halsey have. Being she seems to be an Bioengineer Geneticist Mechanical and Rocket scientist Ship designer. And i assume she failed bioethics in college

[humble yacht]

I thought she was an MDPhD

[versed helm]

Didnt she help with the infinity

[humble yacht]

She did

[versed helm]

Lol jesus

[humble yacht]

She’s humanity’s foremost authority on forerunner research

[versed helm]

Are her only degrees in medical?

Theres no way

Unless she casually is an expert in these things without education

She also made the most advanced AI at the time

[humble yacht]

She has at least one research degree

[empty bloom]

She is a ‘As the plot demands’ologist.

[versed helm]

they couldnt make like one other person who is an engineer to be the infinity designer

its kinda memey

bruh and designed the MJOLNIR armor

[humble yacht]

They did

Glassman

[versed helm]

ah yes

glassman

I guess ethics is the only field she fails at but im sure lore will reveal she is an expert on the humanitites aswell

[cobalt quiver]

What happened to the original set of arrays?

[humble yacht]

Most were destroyed

One ring from the Senescent Array was retrofitted to be a part of the Neoteric Array

[versed helm]

She was eventually afforded a trip to Circumstance in 2501 from the Dean of Biological Science at Koletre-Browning University, who completely funded her education until the completion of her second doctoral thesis sometime after her fifteenth birthday in 2507

Lmao what

[empty bloom]

People who write sci fi don’t generally understand how education works.

[versed helm]

Idk man Anders and Glassman seems better written with intellect then her. She is actually insane

[empty bloom]

Yep.

[humble yacht]

She’s an unrealistic prodigy

[empty bloom]

Hilariously so.

[humble yacht]

But that’s not uncommon for halo characters

[versed helm]

Like they actually have fields reasonably close to eachother in the sects of humanities with Anders crossing into Stem with biology but also anthropology and Glassman is just a physist

[empty bloom]

At least shields are still canonically figured out by an intern and not Halsey.

[versed helm]

But halsey is a god polymath with forerunner level intellect like what lmao

[humble yacht]

Pretty much every spartan 2 would have been an Olympic athlete and genius intellect even without the spartan program

[versed helm]

it would be chill if she was just like an expert in biology,genetics,and bioengineering who learned ***very theoretical *** computer science revolving around artificial intelligence on the side sure

[empty bloom]

I always figured that a lot of her job was managerial rather than her actually using her degrees constantly. It keeps me less annoyed.

As in, all the doctors and scientists and engineers for MJOLNIR and Spartans did 90% of the work and she was just head scientist.

[versed helm]

I like to think of her as a face behind a wide arange of things but not really the expert like Jobs with Wozniak and apple.

and an easy scapegoat for ONI to screw with

[empty bloom]

Bonus points for Spartan programs III and IV outright improving on a lot of her work when she wasn’t even involved anymore.

[versed helm]

i feel like good character development would be seeing her having to deal with someone better in a field then her and her having to be a subordinate in a sense to them on a project

[empty bloom]

Anders’ time to shine, then.

[versed helm]

ikr it would be cool to see that. Her ego and arrogance is already at unreasonable heights. To see her brought down to reality for a bit would be cool

dont they hate eachother anyway

[empty bloom]

The closest we ever see is Carter using WC against her, and the entirety of Kilo 5.

Oh, and Palmer shooting her in the arm.

[versed helm]

i mean like Anders beating her in a philsophy debate on the justifcation of her unethical practices before the invasion or smth. Being Anders is a humanities expert anyway im sure they wont hesitate making her a polymath with philsophy,ethics and the such. The only thing is that I don't think Halsey cares

ONI already pushed this point on her (ironically)

[empty bloom]

She does not. She’s outrageously petty despite all of her competence.

So she simultaneously cares very deeply but also doesn’t. She’d likely care that it’s being leveled as an insult, but that’s about it.

She acts like she cares about the Spartans, but it’s a warped sense of motherhood mixed with pride in her own success. For the Spartan II’s part, they at least understand what she did was wrong, but also don’t really hold a grudge over it, due in part to the fact that they are legitimately better off for it, regardless of what goals they could have met in a regular life.

[versed helm]

yeah. Osman hates her though though Osman hasn't been deployed constantly either. Though she didn't have a regular life aswell considering she was just an ONI employee for 90% of her life

[humble yacht]

Osman was physically ruined by the augmentation process and emotionally ruined by getting tossed away by Halsey

[empty bloom]

Which kind of explains why she grows to like IIIs (they are essentially her grandchildren, in a sense, being made at the directive of one of her ‘sons’), but utterly loathes Spartan IVs (due to not being inherently related short of being under an organization made by a II, a failed one no less. A knockoff in her mind.)

[humble yacht]

It was only through massive physical therapy that she was able to regain a semblance of a normal life

[versed helm]

Oh yeah that too. Though life under parangosky has to be nothing but cutthroat actions and lessons

Her irritation at 4's exsistance was nice to see in spartan ops

[empty bloom]

Her shortsightedness regarding them reminds me a lot of the fans who complain about them.

[versed helm]

spartan 4s seem to b pretty valid to make idk whats the issue with them

[empty bloom]

Being ‘easier’ and a ‘replacement’.

[versed helm]

I think it shows humanities power after the war as being the big boy of the galaxy

that they have common soldiers that can actually go toe to toe with covenant infantry

[empty bloom]

A lot of the complaints otherwise are trivial quibbles resulting from a poor understanding of Military mindsets and a poor understanding of lore, or inconsistent lore in general.

Thing is, IVs are pretty pointedly not meant to be regular common infantry. They are barely outnumbering total IIIs produced, and in truth basically are replacements for now. The replacement critique is a partially valid valid one but it’s missing the fact that it’s essentially a needed replacement, and even then more Spartans can’t be a bad thing.

It’s like complaining about needing to buy new tires for your car.

[versed helm]

Replacement for threes? They were just suicide soldiers weren't they? I assume there cant be too many left

[empty bloom]

Spartans in general regardless of class.

[versed helm]

Yeah

[empty bloom]

There were less than 30 IIs left by the end of the war, and IIIs frankly weren’t doing a whole lot better.

[versed helm]

They were tho

[empty bloom]

And frankly, the only real issues with IVs are largely things that are quite inconsequential.

[versed helm]

Most of Gamma company made it out

IIIs are stationed on the Infinity too

[empty bloom]

You had Gammas and that’s about it. That’s only about a third of ones that existed.

[versed helm]

What they do? No clue

Yeah it's still over 300 soldiers more or less

That's like 3/4 of the First Spartan IVs

[empty bloom]

Yes, but it’s not nearly enough.

Especially after the wonderful reminder of just how close humanity came to the brink of destruction.

[versed helm]

Idk m8
When there's like a dozen of 2s and barely 150 4s, 300 3s sound like a big number

Especially since 3s unlike 4s won't go full "Hey let's join the terrorists lol"

[empty bloom]

Yeaaaah, that’s part of the lore I still legit hate.

For Mickey I guess I get part of it-someone once pointed out that he initially joined to fight the Covenant, and IIRC Buck explicitly points out that Mickey didn’t join to shoot humans, which might explain why he hesitated to shoot the shot that might have saved the Rookie.

But the rest is just so sloppily done. I wouldn’t disagree if they just threw the whole ‘IVs go traitor!’ arc in the trash where it belongs.

[versed helm]

They also tend to die as dumb as the Spartans IIs in the Reach comics

[empty bloom]

I don’t know what you are IDKing me for though. It’s kind of silly to imagine you wouldn’t need more Spartans when you had a full 2/3 die off.

[versed helm]

To qoute the First Light AI

Dying is what Spartan IIIs do best

but that's beyond the point

you saying that having 300 of them is a small number, when compared to 2s and 4s at a time it was much more lol

Not to mention that a Gamma in MJOLNIR is probably more dangerous than a IV or II

[empty bloom]

It is, pointedly.

Considering what they can do without armor, even.

But that doesn’t mean humanity didn’t need more, an AI’s dubious assessment of III’s aside.

[versed helm]

Yeah they needed more, so they made 4s

And 4s... yeah that's a mixed bag

[empty bloom]

It’s one of the issues I kind of get when people talk about IVs, but I mostly blame it on them being abhorrently characterized in the comics, despite their actual existence and non-story characterization making a lot of sense.

[versed helm]

Oh yeah they die like flies in comics.

Smh the Escalation writers and editorial forgot Spartans have shields so a bunch of them died to... plasma pistols I belive?

[empty bloom]

Terror.

Honestly, I’d have just scrapped and rewrote ALL of that.

Good lord was it awful. Shooting yourself in the foot.

[versed helm]

Hey I know who the Harbringer is

it's pre New War Lotus from Warframe

[empty bloom]

Ilsa Zane?

Lmao.

[versed helm]

I mean look at that helmet, it's a clear give away

[versed helm]

She's still alive lol?

i want to kill inserrectionists in a game

why cant i

Because they dead

[empty bloom]

Presumably yes, but understandably getting ignored as hard as the rest of Escalation.

[versed helm]

oh yeah i had a question here not awnsered

is the UEG basically a puppet authoritarian state controlled by the UNSC Junta and ONI still?

[versed helm]

Escalation is about the only thing I didn't care to read

[empty bloom]

Due to the HCW, presumably.

[gilded mason]

Well...not right now.

[versed helm]

Yh but is it still like that

no before cortana memes

[empty bloom]

It’s just sooooo bad.

[humble yacht]

The last time Ilsa zane was seen was during a Guardian awakening on some planet among a religious cult. ONI operative FERO saw her

[empty bloom]

Man, she’s getting up to some spicy stuff then.

[humble yacht]

Zane was commanding some innie forces

[versed helm]

The UEG was ruled by the UNSC during the war due to Martial Law, but Hood gave power away back to the UEG politicans

Yh but how much of that is actual power

A lot

ONI does what ONI does but they don't go around like you know, CIA tier of dumb moves

bruh idk ONI seems kinda weird in its actions

[humble yacht]

In the lore, plasma is much more dangerous than it is in the games. The PP is an extremely effective weapon in the lore, even against Mjolnir and shields

[versed helm]

Mona Lisa and making a civil war with the Elites was kinda cringe

Spartans to literally put down the insurrection?

idk if that even made sense before the invasion

[empty bloom]

The ‘forgetting shields’ part is still criminal. And it’s still ridiculous to kill several squads anyways.

[versed helm]

I'm well aware of the effects plasma has in lore, even if it's incositent.
The point is that they were dropped instantly cuz the writer wasn't aware Spartans and Elites had shields.

the CIA is pretty tame compared to ONI

Not really

ONI simply isn't stupid

Ah no wait, ONI got high jacked by an forerunner AI for a while lmao

[empty bloom]

Like, noooo, you can’t just portray them as the actually competent Super Seal Team 6 they’re canonically supposed to be, can you.

Ugh.

[versed helm]

That was always their point.

Is ONI really that effective and intelligent in its choices

[versed helm]

Im asking if it made sense

It did

why

[empty bloom]

Do you want the Watsonian or Doylist answer?

[versed helm]

both

Because the Outer Colonies in their infinite wisodm would throw farmers and miners with weak weapons against an military force that doesn't bother them

in the name of romnatized freedom lol

[empty bloom]

Yes, no, in that order.

[humble yacht]

It made sense in the lore because Halsey predicted that the death toll if a full scale civil war broke out would be hella worse than quelling the insurrection prematurely

[versed helm]

Honestly the Rebel Front in Halo is how I imagine all the American's that hate on the gouverment - but the Rebels actually went to make their own.

Were spartans really the only peole who could do precision assasinations on leaders at the time

[humble yacht]

So the plan was to kill a few million innies in such a shocking way that the rest of them would just be like “welp, we had a good run”

[versed helm]

Superpowers since the Cold War have done this lmao

[empty bloom]

I’d say Titanfall’s rebels/militia are actually a pretty close comparison.

[versed helm]

without super soldiers

[humble yacht]

The purpose of the Spartans was to have a larger-than-life presence that the innies would fear

[versed helm]

I wouldn't say so

as the Militar in Titanfall was exploited and abused

the Outer Colonies weren't

[versed helm]

the size of the UNSC wasn't enough? Were they capable of winning that war?

[gaunt oak]

Do not tag Admins or Moderators unless immediate action is needed. If you see anything that does not abide by these rules and guidelines, or have a question on Halo Discord server issues, please DM @wet locust.

[versed helm]

im sorry

forgive please

[humble yacht]

The UNSC probably would have been spread thin across the outer colonies in full scale war

[versed helm]

So was USA and USSR, they still lost to Rebels.

[empty bloom]

Do you want the super soldiers or no?

[versed helm]

wdym do i want?

[humble yacht]

And again, the predicted death toll of civil war outweighed the death toll that the Spartans would cause

[versed helm]

Not to mention that travel and comms were slow af prior to the end of Covenant war

[empty bloom]

It’s just a flimsy excuse to have Spartans in universe is what I’m saying.

[versed helm]

Im just asking if Spartans were really the only way to do the things they needed to do like killing the leadership

Only way no?
Most effective? Yeah

[empty bloom]

ONI was required by plot to decide so.

[humble yacht]

Cmon man, it’s sci fi

It’s not supposed to be super realistic, just go with it

Lol

[empty bloom]

Which is exactly why I’m pointing out that sometimes things just don’t make sense, and that’s okay.

[humble yacht]

I’m referring to rib

[empty bloom]

Aye.

[versed helm]

As long as it works

[empty bloom]

I’d say you could problably get pretty far if you just, you know, dropped all contact.

[versed helm]

No I understand its just it kinda seemed much for ONI to do is all cause they seemed to make just as bad choices or weird choices as irl intelligence agencies

[empty bloom]

‘Oh, you don’t want to be part of the UEG anymore? Okay. Have fun getting by without ships, terraforming gear, or mailed supplies.’

[versed helm]

The only really screw up ONI had in books soo far is

hmm

Interpid Eye i Mdama?

[humble yacht]

It’s basically shock trooper tactics, it has historical precedent that has proven to be effective

[woven plaza]

the jul m'dama thing is really an embarrassment for ONI

[versed helm]

yh

This is what happens when you leave some civie in charge

[woven plaza]

Intrepid Eye is a forerunner ancilla so it's understandable it'd give the UNSC/ONI trouble

[versed helm]

True

but M'dama? That's just embarrsing.

[empty bloom]

I’d say blundering Spartan IV background checks or allowing Buck to get the rest of his squad augmented is honestly worse.

[versed helm]

That's not ONI tho

[humble yacht]

What background checks were blundered

[empty bloom]

Mickey, Scruggs.

[versed helm]

Just the reason I asked this is because the amount of power Parangosky and now Osman have is unreasonable compared to like past CIA directors. It could be just to make it sound dramatic but I feel like i've seen so many times refrences to them "choosing not to kill (said important person in the UNSC heirarchy)"

Maybe its just the things i've read

[empty bloom]

The fact even one turned traitor at all is just... So, so wrong.

[versed helm]

It's just Traviss writing

[fair hazel]

It means they have freedom to chose.

That they aren't wholly indoctorinated

[empty bloom]

Which is a terrible way to take the situation, tbh.

Generally speaking, grown adults are going to chose anyways.

[fair hazel]

Not according to Musa

[versed helm]

The first S4 was a traitor, wasn't she?

[humble yacht]

Not the first

[empty bloom]

Then Musa’s not very bright.

[versed helm]

Well she was sort of the first, if everyone else from the class died

[humble yacht]

Isla zane was part of the first class of prototype SIVs

The procedures drove her crazy

[fair hazel]

He was a spartan-II, he has a brilliant mind and doesn't want to repeat the spartan-II program.

Also, did I read al ot of UNSC justification and insurection point of view downplaying?

The UNSC arent, the GOOD guys

[humble yacht]

Neither are the innies

Everyone’s bad, call thanos

[woven plaza]

pedantry. Prototype or otherwise, she was part of the Spartan-IV program

[fair hazel]

Grayscale, not black and white

and the carver's findings?

[woven plaza]

some say the Carver findings were overblown

[versed helm]

I assume its the writting. I can see Parangosky being able to remove agitators in really dire conditions like the invasion but Osman during a time of human supremacy in the galaxy and return of democracy seems like an unhealthy presence if thats what the UEG is trying to go back to

[fair hazel]

They'd be based on the UEG power dominance

[empty bloom]

From an out of universe perspective, his take on Spartan IVs going traitor is inane and hopelessly naive. Is that a better way to put it?

[fair hazel]

I disagree, and I empathize with his point of view

[versed helm]

Does his point of view allow for more "human" soldiers? Yes

[fair hazel]

Remember Far Isle. (insurrection topic)

[versed helm]

Does that make them better?

Eh.

[woven plaza]

even if mjolnir gen2 was cheaper and the augmentations less risky, that's still a huge amount of time and resources to be putting down without doing heavy screening

[empty bloom]

That’s like saying a Seal going traitor is a good thing.

[woven plaza]

like if the innies get some working mjolnir? the banished?

[empty bloom]

Anybody who believes that’s a good thing should be put under serious scrutiny immediately.

And barred from command in the meantime.

[fair hazel]

That's like saying the previous seals were child soldiers kidnapped and brainwashed, and their replacement are at least people who have their freedom of choice. Doesn't mean that they'll escape consequences.

[woven plaza]

it's still a massive risk

[fair hazel]

Also, you're not really going to eliminate the risk completely...

[versed helm]

The biggest thing that bugs me is how everyone suddenly "heard" that S2s were kidnapped children after the war.

[fair hazel]

Several high ranking UNSC personel have turned to the insurectionist side

[versed helm]

Like, wow quite the secuirty leak, innit Osman?

[woven plaza]

if anything that's realistic

[humble yacht]

Any time you have a free will adult in a situation who can make a choice, it’s more risky than a brainwashed child soldier

[fair hazel]

Not everyone believes it and it's still whispers and nebulous.

[woven plaza]

conspiracies fall apart when you take into account how many people need to be "in" on it

[versed helm]

I assume ONI and the UEG doesnt have anything like the freedom of information act lmao

[humble yacht]

But there’s a reason using child soldiers is frowned upon

[empty bloom]

And that makes it okay how, exactly?

[woven plaza]

the Spartan-II program involved tons of regular UNSC soldiers

[empty bloom]

Like, that sounds just as awful, if not worse.

[woven plaza]

one's bound to get drunk or drugged and talk

[fair hazel]

I didn't say it makes it okay. It just means you're not bound to get it 100% secure for everyone

not unless... you have a network of AI across the galaxy that can monitor and enforce control on everyone.

[versed helm]

Eh I still side with the UNSC over Innies

[woven plaza]

^

[versed helm]

That worked about as well as everyone could expect

honestly it did very little to descalte the conflict lol

[woven plaza]

it worked for the Balaho grunts

[versed helm]

And they in turn went to slaughter an embassy of humans because that's what peace is!

[empty bloom]

With the frequency with which it happens, it’s almost as though Musa is an Innie plant. The fact it’s happened even two times shows such a massive amount of dissent that it’s unreal.

[versed helm]

does the internet exsist if so is it like Chinas in the UNSC?

or pretty open?

[woven plaza]

definitely monitored

[versed helm]

yh thats a given

but like is there hyper active censorship and even criminal charges if people say or go to the wrong things

The Waypoint is monitored by ONI
There was another network that is less monitored.

[fair hazel]

Whatever was outside of the created grasp was able to, fight more

There's Waypoint, and there's chatternet

[fair hazel]

It's more like ONI monitors it and is able to, do things with that information

[empty bloom]

Hell, Musa’s straight up saying it’s a good thing that the organization he was literally crippled for in an attempt to make super soldiers to wipe them out infiltrating his program’s ranks is a good thing. You didn’t need an insurrectionist plot to prove your regular human veterans had free will, Musa, you socially stunted weirdo.

[versed helm]

China is part of the UEG, they have a lot of influence

is there a list of laws anywhere that lists out these things

[fair hazel]

Also a lot of you guys seem to ignore the ammount of insurectionists the UNSC knowingly let sign up to the UNSC

[versed helm]

But I assume they aren't wannabe facist anymore

[woven plaza]

SinoViet Heavy Industries

[versed helm]

Im just curious how nations like China and the US agree on things like censorship

[fair hazel]

This is 500 years in the future

[versed helm]

i know

[fair hazel]

Don't apply all real life current things

[woven plaza]

something something suspension of disbelief + its the future + individual countries have less say in things

[versed helm]

but i want the process in the 2100s where they agreed on things is all

Something something ONI propaganda

[empty bloom]

Worth noting nobody knows what the SAS is anymore in Halo.

[versed helm]

if theres like a book or smth

[fair hazel]

Also, don't expect to find a technical list of laws and stuff, other than certain guide books for the most part, things are explored organically via novels and other media

[versed helm]

I think there's the Mortal Didacta law, accords or whatever

However, in i love bees, Rani Sobeck makes direct reference to the Fifth Amendment, implying that the Constitution is still in effect, in 26th-century America. Additionally, the IRS continues to exist.[8]

like theres this funny thing here and that makes me think how ONI goes around violating the amendments constantly

of course I'm 99% sure it was made by Traviss and every law there exists solely so Halsey could break it.

[versed helm]

Is I love bees even canon?

idk i asked if the belive stuff was canon and was told proboly

[empty bloom]

Like any good spy group, ONI breaks its host nation’s laws constantly.

[versed helm]

yes

[fair hazel]

I love bees is in like this sorta gray area

the UN Mortal Dictata is a sensible law..

And thematically and naratively makes sense

[woven plaza]

lmao true

[versed helm]

Well colored me surprised

the law was mentioned in Reach

so it's not all Traviss

[fair hazel]

surprise, halsey did bad stuff, and it's been acknowledged for a long time

[loud kestrel]

hey, question about halo infinite stuff u guys probably dont know it but i wanna ask anyways

[humble yacht]

We don’t know what race the harbinger is

[loud kestrel]

lol no not my question

[humble yacht]

Ok where’s the question

[loud kestrel]

when infinite campaign takes place, does that mean the unsc lost the war and the brutes won?

[humble yacht]

That’s the working scenario

[loud kestrel]

cause like in the trailer chiefs floating around unconscious in space with damaged armor

[humble yacht]

Yep

[loud kestrel]

what the hell happened there? how'd that come to be

[fair hazel]

Play infinite to find out

[humble yacht]

You’ll have to play the game to find out

[loud kestrel]

oh hey ur a mod now, u weren't before when i joined at least

[gaunt oak]

Do not tag Admins or Moderators unless immediate action is needed. If you see anything that does not abide by these rules and guidelines, or have a question on Halo Discord server issues, please DM @wet locust.

[humble yacht]

That’s factually incorrect

You must have me mistaken with someone else

[loud kestrel]

lmao what?

[humble yacht]

I’ve literally been a mod here since server creation

[loud kestrel]

who else is named chimera and has a buck pfp?

[humble yacht]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[loud kestrel]

lol with the mod role tho u came as like green

[humble yacht]

Mod role has changed colors a few times, nbd

[loud kestrel]

and 343 has hidden themselves lol i noticed a few months ago, like where did u guys go and suddenly stckerboys an admin too

like what happened there?

[humble yacht]

You must have false memory syndrome

[fair hazel]

Stckrboy has been an admin.

[humble yacht]

Stckr was an admin since day 1

[loud kestrel]

what the hell?

[loud kestrel]

im pretty sure my memories are intact

[humble yacht]

Please disable pings when replying, thanks

[loud kestrel]

(pretty sure)

ok

[versed helm]

@loud kestrelthey used le old game writing

aka

any vessel is > X vessel as long as the plot demands it

Though I don't think the entire ship is gone, we'd see wreckage.
All the wreckage soo far looked mostly like frigates name's I forgot

[fair hazel]

I don't think so.

[obsidian thistle]

Anyhow. Its nice to see more alien species. I love building the mystery aliens page that will soon be pushed on Halopedia aha

[brave grove]

What's everyone thoughts on the Skimmers? I think they look cool, really organic in the way they move kinda like the combine ships in Half-Life

looks like drones have been dumped though which is disappointing

[lavish garnet]

The skimmers look fascinating- intrigued on how they fit in. Covenant race? Something else?

The way one of them is holding a gun and having to use both hands to pull the trigger, great stuff

[unique rune]

They look like they're associated with the Harbinger, at the very least.

I thought they were Banished at first because of the Shock Rifles but they don't match visually otherwise.

[wintry igloo]

is the new divine wind book a stand alone or a chain of books?>

[gilded mason]

Last Light -> Retribution -> Shadows of Reach -> Divine Wind

[honest trout]

Third in a chain, and I also recommend reading shadows of reach

[wintry igloo]

Oh really? huh didn't expect that, i skipped those 2 first books

thought it was the continue of point of light

[gilded mason]

Nope, Point of Light is:
Smoke and Shadow -> Renegades -> Point of Light

[wintry igloo]

Rip, didn't do the first 2 😂

They sadly don't have renegade on audible because the one reading it appeared to be really bad at it. :< rip

[woven plaza]

I wonder what the red ball they were bullying was

despondent pyre maybe?

watch them have spoiled Offensive Bias being in the game in the trailer and hoping nobody noticed
i base this on:
ball? red
offensive bias? red

[humble yacht]

Despondent pyre gave up his monitor form iirc

Integrated with the ring

[versed helm]

That's pretty cool

[fair hazel]

a sub monitor likely

but it'd be cool if that was an eye from a warsphinx

[viscid trout]

To be fair it might have been angry due to..well..being tossed around like a volley ball by the skimmers.

[woven plaza]

well i did want to see submonitors so that works too

[woven plaza]

i want to imagine despondent pyre is the most miserable monitor in existence
and now this happens

[viscid trout]

He gonna incinerate the next skimmer he sees

[unique rune]

My first thought with the weird ball thing was that it reminded me of the War Sphinx eye on Ivanoff Station.

[stable flower]

How did MC feel when he got reacquainted with the Flood in Halo 2?

[unique rune]

No one knows because Bungie wrote him as a one-liner soundboard and there hasn’t been any other media that covers that

[last anchor]

Remind me where we heard of him again?

[woven plaza]

Zeta Halo's monitor, and i have 0 idea where we first found out he exists

or she? idk

[fair hazel]

point of light

[last anchor]

Right, must have gotten buried in some of the other stuff. I'll go back and reread it

[woven plaza]

I was thinking about making a time machine to go to 2014 to ask Catalog something but I feel like the plot wouldn't have been written yet

anyways, that aside

is there any way 000 Tragic Solitude survived

[versed helm]

Probably not

[stray holly]

I've always asked myself why we still use petrol and projectiles in the year 2552

[versed helm]

Because

Warthogs dont use petrol

They use piss

[stray holly]

I mean it has those Jerry cans

[versed helm]

Warthogs use hydrogen or something

[stray holly]

pog

[versed helm]

It's powered by pee

This is written on halo way point

[humble yacht]

No it’s not

[hybrid juniper]

I just thought of this, don't think it's what it'll be but hypothetically the Harbinger could be an extra galactic creature that precursors entrusted to a different galaxy who heard what happened to the precursors. This could explain the name meddlers as well, as in meddling in a foreign galaxy.

[humble yacht]

Doubt it

A caretaker of another galaxy wouldn’t really have a reason to hop over. Their duty is to their galaxy, not to the precursors

[carmine sleet]

They'd also have no reason to be so spiteful against the Forerunners as they seem in the small snippet we saw

[hybrid juniper]

Idk man, they could be spiteful that their parent species was destroyed

[humble yacht]

Precursors weren’t doting parents

[tepid vault]

How do elites eat things

I don’t get it

[unique rune]

with their mouths, probably

[tepid vault]

Do they just swallow things or do they levitate it in their mouth and chew it

[tepid vault]

Is this captain obvious’ account

[unique rune]

sometimes

[tepid vault]

How’s the hotel commercials

[tidal fossil]

is there anything describing what happens after H3ODST with Sadie and that cop guy I forgot the name of?

[unique rune]

Mike Branley isn’t ever mentioned after ODST but Sadie does appear in New Blood and Bad Blood.

[tidal fossil]

interesting

did she end up enlisting like she was going to do at the beginning of the audio logs?

[unique rune]

She doesn’t enlist in the military but did agree to work as Vergil/Quick to Adjust’s handler

[tidal fossil]

cool

thanks for the lore

[scarlet gyro]

Screamed internally and thinking of the nightmare experience he saw back in the first ring but still carried through because of sheer mental discipline (Halo: The Flood Book and i love the fact or idea from the book that Chief can at least get "scared" (very metaphorical) , concerned or stressed, but doesn´t show it much outside of his mind or spartan partners, i mean they have smily hand-sign expressions so it counts

@stable flower forgot to pin

Maybe i am exaggerating the details a lot but hey, i love the idea of hard-core machine like men like Chief or Doomguy that despite the way they all act and even if it´s true, there´s still a small piece of conscience that tries to act like a normal person based on visualization on the few normal people they see around when the chance presents itself.

Kinda like the video called "Halo 3 ODST but the Rookie can talk and it's only cutscenes with him involved"

[boreal bane]

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/news/zeta-testing

[obsidian thistle]

Tis a good issue! ;)

[woven plaza]

I'm just wondering who on the Ark Deus ex Machina'd the SoF to the Ark

[empty bloom]

Jimmy Space

[woven plaza]

I kinda wish we could get a story of Zo Resken meeting with humans

double interesting if he meets with innies

"private disagreements regarding the Hierarch's genocidal campaign on the human race."

or even just unsc

[last anchor]

Technically its powered by hydrogen, which it can make on its own from "any suitable water source using a solar powered water-splitter". Presumably though the UNSC has non-potable water tankers or enviromental collection systems that let it refuel from any suitable source. Heck, you could probably slam one of those cans in a lake, fill it up and your good to go.

[carmine sleet]

Hey, so I'm watching Headhunters and I'm curious as to what the Silent Shadow Elite means when he says "Surrender yourself for Inquisition" to Jonah when they have him surrounded

[versed helm]

Probably interrogation and torture

[ancient breach]

Can someone explain about Swords of Sanghelios. R they an army led by Arbiter kind of like Atriox leading his army of The Banished.

[gilded mason]

The SoS is a whole government that was created by Thel

[ancient breach]

Oh I thought it was an army like The Banished

[scarlet gyro]

Damn it i already had a hole speech for Quinones

Can i still post it tho?

[tidal fossil]

I thought the Covenant had some kind of rule against taking human prisoners or hostages or something (like a rule saying that humans should be killed immediately without hesitation or something). But then there's the marines on that one mission in Halo 2. I don't really know...

[scarlet gyro]

I´ll give my part anyways, this is #lore-and-universe after all

[versed helm]

I am sure exceptions were madr

[scarlet gyro]

As far as i can understand and to fill any gaps, the "Swords Of Sanghelios" were originally founded as an alliance of multiple nation-states leadered by Kaidons (The rulers of said city-states like the Romans)
that wanted to rebel over a tyrannycal Arbiter that conquered the continent of Qivro and its people (where they lived) but was eventually ovethrew by them in times of old, way back before the Covenant or the Prophets arrived at Sanghelios. (Similar to the Classical antiquity Era of our species to draw a decent comparison of a "timeline")
Overtime i suppose that the alliance stayed under the carpet for a while until the Writ of Union came by (treaty to abide by the foundation of the Covenant "Religion" and trusty cooperation between Sangheili and Prophets) and were convinced to dust-off the now old-alliance and transform it into an active political/military/economic faction of the "modern" Sangheili.
Then the Schism came by and by their roots, stayed to protect Sanghelios over warlords, Brutes, pirates and other "betrayers" that took the chance to invade while everything was on fire.
And at last, after Halo 3 finished, The Arbiter and their "separatists" arrived at their homeworld to have the Swords of Sanghelios as a way to go back to their roots and reclaim their lost honor and lack of future into a new leaf of government and unity for their species.

[gilded mason]

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/universe/factions/swords-of-sanghelios

[ancient breach]

Can we just say that Arbiter is the leader just like Atriox

[woven plaza]

sure

[scarlet gyro]

lol

[obsidian thistle]

Honestly its gonna be sad to see that section go.

The Universe Section despite having 2 versions in the past, was always a staple of waypoint.

[stable flower]

The lore is pretty mixed up on that one.

[terse lava]

Personally I miss the classic cannon fodder, when it was weekly

[gilded mason]

Yeah, it's pretty disappointing.

[versed helm]

Canon foder these days seems to be more of "blurb reveal" for maps and weapons

[stable flower]

It's interesting how the Banished have their own manufacturers

[ancient breach]

So Atriox has commanders by his side u know Voridus, Pavium, the other brute I forgot his name who died in Halo Wars 2 and unless I'm missing other commanders. So do u think Arbiter has commanders too.

[tacit charm]

decimus the decimated

[scarlet gyro]

I mean it makes sense, if you got the money and territory to back it up (kinda like Kig-Yar business or diplomacy with a gun at all times)

[woven plaza]

Rtas' Vadum for one

[ancient breach]

His a commander for Arbiter

[odd stirrup]

I have few questions.

1. When Zeta Halo and Mandicant Bias eescaped the Bornstellar attack through slip space I heard it was damaged, how was it rebuilt?

2. When Mendicant Bias fired Zeta Halo what was the radius range and causality numbers in the Maethrillian system? Where was the Librarian and other forerunners situated when Zeta Halo was fired near Maethrillian?

[terse lava]

@odd stirrup 1. They didn't escape, Bornstellar/Isodidact and his forces managed to capture the ring. It wasn't fully rebuilt, but had damaged sections cast off, which reduced its size from 30k diameter, to 10k.

2. The firing killed everyone in the area, besides those who had found shelter deep within Marthrillian. The Librarian was at the greater ark during those events.

[unique rune]

I've watched the recent campaign too many times and it still really bugs me that the narration refers to John as "Master Chief" and not "the Master Chief."

Reminds me of how Thel is always just called "Arbiter" in Halo 5's campaign rather than "the Arbiter."

[carmine moss]

@terse lava so there were survivors of the firing?

[terse lava]

@carmine moss yes, members of the council

[carmine moss]

ok cool. could harbinger be someone from that pool?

[gilded mason]

They don't seem to be a Forerunner, so no.

[carmine moss]

hmm ok very interesting

could it be an AI into physical form maybe? anti composer or something liek that

akin to reaching metastability

[stable flower]

Those on Shield Worlds survived

[gilded mason]

It seems to have organic-looking eyes in a shot during the trailer

[empty bloom]

Hot

[gilded mason]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/583284342894231590/902387446510141480/Screenshot_20211025-221518.png

[tacit charm]

its fun seeing people speculate about the harbinger

and im here just lmfao cause of the leaks

[terse lava]

Good for you

[stable flower]

I'm more worried about the Created

[terse lava]

Why

[stable flower]

I don't want them to be axed out in favor of the Banished.

[empty bloom]

Too late~

[terse lava]

Ah, thought you met as in, more worried about them as what they could do. I wouldn't be terribly shocked to see them get kicked. I have not seen many who even like them. In the 6 years they have been around now, I have yet to see a story involve any Creatdd AI, or expand on the Warden, or on anything really with them. They are extremely forgettable in my personal opinion

Look at the Covenant for example, who had stories and characters at this point

[fair hazel]

I don’t like the throwing under the rug thing

[versed helm]

Is there any other piece of canon that states whether the elite or the marine escaped the Mona Lisa?

[carmine sleet]

Other piece would imply something says one of them survived in the first place

[versed helm]

Does it say who did?

[carmine sleet]

What I'm getting at is nothing says one of them survived

Which means it's impossible for there to be an "Other piece" to state if one survived like what you say in your original question

[versed helm]

Ok

[versed helm]

Would the Halo Mythos book be good for someone who hasn't read any novel past ghost of onyx and that ages ago? Kind of as a refresher before Infinite. This universe has grown so large since I read the books as a kid. Until the new encyclopedia comes out

I really should try to like get into the books again. Maybe after I finish my current sci Fi series

Isn't that just a general guide/encyclopedia?

It's story focused on everything up to 5 apparently. Including any books or comics. Might check it out if a local library has it

An actual new encyclopedia is coming out in March. The last one is from like when Reach came out

Give me something light to read at work during the long nights

Many of the newer books are pretty short too, they like 350 pages max usually

Yeah this one is like 200. I expect it to be brief

But with pretty pictures

That new encyclopedia should be pretty cool

[tacit charm]

that new encyclopaedia better have mac numbers

[versed helm]

I wonder if the new art book or encyclopedia will come with any infinite bonus content

Has there ever been a reason they made Ellen Anders look uh totally different in Halo wars 2?

Not in universe no

I had to double check it was the same character when I started it after 1

[main rivet]

Why particularly does it bother you? You can treat titles without definite articles if you're treating them like names, and if you treat them like ranks you wouldn't use it either.

[humble yacht]

Different facial capture actress. This happens all the time

[versed helm]

I think that HW2 characters are modeled after their VAs, which wasn't the case with HW1s?

[terse lava]

Correct

[humble yacht]

Iirc HW1 models were modeled after real people

Halopedia says that while HW1 didn’t use facial capture, the character models were indeed designed after real people

So it is correct that Anders’ change in looks was due to a change in model reference (as well as model technology)

[fair hazel]

Yes. Very much so.

[versed helm]

Is that really it? Huh. Games are weird. Changing an Asian character to a white character is super weird. Should have kept her consistent

[unique rune]

I dunno, it just sounds sorta weird to me when they're talking about a character rather than directly addressing them.

[fair hazel]

… you might want to look at the actor’s background that portrays her.

[woven plaza]

I'd love to see Atriox's VA then

[jovial cave]

Uh-oh... 😳

[carmine sleet]

He looks like this

[valid hemlock]

he looks like he could voice a yellow dog on a fantasy world

[dusky zenith]

ngl the silent shadow elites look badass

[versed helm]

How do you get the power to post pics here lol

[gilded mason]

Some people were arbitrarily chosen to get the "Inheritor" role, which gives extra privileges.

[versed helm]

Cool

[silver saddle]

Or a bending robot

[carmine sleet]

Didn't need to tag me and what Ostral said

[humble yacht]

The actress who plays Anders in Hw2 is of Chinese decent iirc

Talk about egg on your face

[odd stirrup]

I see but who started the slip space that transported Zeta halo to the ark? Does this happen after Bornstellar took control of the ring? If so how did he survive the firing?

[terse lava]

After it fired at the capital, failsafes put in transported it into the orbit of a moon, as a means to collide with and be destroyed. After Born captured it and had the worst areas ejected, it was given further repairs @odd stirrup

@gilded mason still waiting for some poor Unggoy to have been accidently chosen as a reclaimer

[odd stirrup]

So they transported the ring into the orbit of a moon? but Bornstellar was there near Meathrellion how did he survive the radius of the Halo? Unless Halo rings have different firing mechanisms that don't eradicate everything in their radius and can specifically target only meathrellion

[terse lava]

@odd stirrup born escaped the battle of the capital aboard a small escape ship, alongside two other forerunners. They made it through one of the multiple portals around thr Capital before the rings fired

[gilded mason]

😌

[odd stirrup]

ah makes sense, thanks

[terse lava]

You are welcome

[mint flume]

what is the Harbinger? Is she forerunner? or is she a prelate? I doubt she has a connection to the Precursors, like some on Twitter are suggesting.

[versed helm]

No one knows

Except she isn't a prelate

[mint flume]

Why cant she be a Prelate?

[versed helm]

"One thing is certain: they aren’t going down without a fight. And speaking of unknowns, we also got our first look at the Harbinger. We don’t have a lot to say about this curious character at the moment, but I will give you this: They’re definitely not a Prelate." https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/news/zeta-testing

that

[mint flume]

You're the best

[gilded mason]

Also, she looks nothing like a San'Shyuum

[elfin galleon]

hey guys

someone to tell me which books are between halo 5 and halo infinite??

[stable flower]

The idea of San'Shyuum being in the Banished is ironic

[terse lava]

Would be rather dumb as well

[woven plaza]

shadows of reach

and

divine wind

[fair hazel]

Bad blood

[versed helm]

Parts of legacy of onyx and point of light too

[versed helm]

Ordered a paperback of Halo mythos cause no library had it. $13 ain't bad

Will have to bring it to work and read. Night security perks

[versed helm]

Enjoy

[versed helm]

How did truth cover up the glassing of regret's temple?

[carmine sleet]

I think he said Regret was already dead by the time it was glassed, which isn't wrong to be fair

[versed helm]

Then why glass it

Oh nevermind

To kill the demon

[humble yacht]

Truth originally wanted to kill regret himself. He simply told the covenant that Chief killed regret (which was ironically true), and the glassing would have been an attempt to kill Chief

[versed helm]

It would make sense for an alarm to go off if a Hierarch's vitals flatlined

[humble yacht]

Nah

I doubt the hierarchy would allow themselves to be monitored in such a way

[versed helm]

Oh i thought thats what happened. Because right after regret dies from being smacked, the phantoms turn around

[humble yacht]

Phantoms?

You mean the enemy forces

All the honor guards and such

[versed helm]

I replayed regret last night. Cortana says "multiple waves of phantoms" are coming before you enter the temple

You can check the transcript on halopedia too

[humble yacht]

Well maybe they turned around when they noticed the glassing was about to kick off

[versed helm]

Perhaps. And Rtas was a little peeved afterwards. "If you had not withdrawn our phantoms"

The death of Regret was the kickstarter for the great schism yes?

[humble yacht]

Depends on what you consider the schism

[versed helm]

The civil war

[humble yacht]

Then no

What kicked off the war was the Brutes murdering the elites

[versed helm]

Oh then it was the death of the council on delta halo

Ah i see

[humble yacht]

The elites quitting the High Council probably only made it easier for truth to enact his plan of getting rid of them entirely

[versed helm]

No they actually threatened to resign

"Did you know, Arbiter? The elites have threatened to resign? To quit the High Council?"

[humble yacht]

Ok, threatening to quit is pretty close to quitting

The logic still follows that it made it easier to go after the elites

[versed helm]

Hm ok

[vapid inlet]

Hey I don't get it, do the forerunners want humans to take the mantle or not? Because it seems the didact did not at all yet we see guilty spark say that Humans are reclaimers. Did the librarian have anything to do with this?

[unique rune]

Some Forerunners did, some didn’t.

[versed helm]

Based forerunners like the Librarian want humans to have mantle. Cringe forerunners like the didact don't

[unique rune]

After the firing of the Halo array, most of the remaining Forerunners seemed to generally agrre that they should recede and let humanity claim the Manyle.

But the Didact was kinda left to stew in his own madness for several eons which didn’t do much to convince him to properly guide humanity along the path.

[vapid inlet]

Haha i'll take that

wait some forerunners survived?

[honest trout]

Just the diffract that we know of

[steep charm]

The Forerunners outside of the blast range
Like on the Ark and stuff

[unique rune]

Some did, they mostly just went into hiding and left themselves to gradually die off without further interfering with the galaxy.

[humble yacht]

A small group of forerunners survived and then went into exile after the firing

[vapid inlet]

I just finished halo 3 and i did not see any forerunners on the ark

[humble yacht]

Yea

[fallen horizon]

All I know is green man goes brrr and big donut.

[humble yacht]

That’s because they were on the ark 100,000 years before Chief was there

[vapid inlet]

OH YEP MAKES SENSE

lol

wait what about the didact, didnt he stay in that planet prison for a similar time too?

[versed helm]

Yeah

In his cryptum

[vapid inlet]

he turned out to be alive no?

[unique rune]

Yes

[vapid inlet]

im assuming chimera means they aged and died

[unique rune]

More or less

[vapid inlet]

neat

[hybrid juniper]

Does anyone know why the S IIs aren't given any of the new augmentations? (The ones that aren't redundant)

[humble yacht]

Probably because they don’t need them

Even tho the SIV augmentations are compatible with adults, the SII and SIII largely were better/more extreme than what the SIVs got

[hybrid juniper]

That's why I said non redundant ones.

Spartan 4s have various engineered organs which would be objectively better than non modified organs of the spartan IIs the majority of the time.

Spartan 4s also have a blood clotting augmentation that Spartan IIs don't have

[humble yacht]

Not necessarily

In all likelihood, organ replacement was done for the IVs because their adult organs couldn’t be modified to the same extent that sIIs/IIIs had been

[hybrid juniper]

Spartan IIs never had modified organs

Other than potentially as a side effect of muscular enhancement their heart MAY be modified somewhat

[humble yacht]

Spartan IIs do have an increased healing factor, as we saw in SoR

[orchid kettle]

I mean, IVs barely have to eat or sleep, and will remain in their prime for over a century

And who know what their actual lifespan is

[hybrid juniper]

The blood clotting aug was intended for SIIs originally but was rejected due to potential side effects vs reward at the time

[unique rune]

I doubt it’d be worth the trouble of trying to try to augment 300-odd Spartans a second time

Especially without knowing how the modified/engineered organs might interact with their prior augmentations

And you’d probably be better off just spending that time fully augmenting another 300-ish member class of S-IVs

[hybrid juniper]

There's like less than 50 spartan 2s alive

100 spartan 3s tops

[unique rune]

Most of S-III Gamma is still around as far as we know

So… 300-ish S-IIs and -IIIs all told

[hybrid juniper]

Forgot about gamma my bad there

[humble yacht]

Iirc the majority of gammas were moved to non combat positions

[hybrid juniper]

Anywho it'd be cheaper to partially augment the 2s and 3s to get better super soldiers than fully augment new ones

Like give them all blood clotting and maybe some of the organs (other than hearts for 2s maybe)

Like S4 lungs naturally filter out toxins and stuff

That would be super useful for S2s and 3s

Plus we haven't explicitly gotten lore that this hasn't happened to S3s who joined the spartan branch

[unique rune]

Anywho it'd be cheaper to partially augment the 2s and 3s to get better super soldiers than fully augment new ones
But the UNSC would get more out of having more supersoldiers.

The S-IIs and -IIIs already have pretty much all of the important augmentations.

[hybrid juniper]

Most of the cost for Spartan 4s is the suit

Spending a fraction of that cost to increase effectiveness and survivability for living s2s and s3s is a good payoff

In lore right now the UNSC probabky isn't in a place to be able to do this but doing this would likely increase the Spartans capability by at least 10%

They'd have near instant cloud clotting and wouldn't bleed out

They'd be immune to airborne toxins and stuff

And (iirc) be able to survive in space longer

[honest sinew]

James still MIA in space

Hopefully alive lol

[carmine sleet]

I doubt James has lived all the way to 2560 while floating in space

[honest sinew]

Chances are he probably got a hold of some wreckage

[carmine sleet]

Or he died in the cold vacuum of space

[honest sinew]

😔

[hybrid juniper]

It would be cool if he was alive

[humble yacht]

Like I said, sIIs already have fast healing

[unique rune]

MJOLNIR already has filters built into it so I seriously doubt the lung improvements would be that much of a benefit.

Most Spartan casualties have been a result of things far beyond just bleeding out. Not to mention MJOLNIR has integrated biofoam injectors to help stop that from happening anyway

[lunar drum]

Speaking if S2s do we know what happened to Grey Team?

[carmine sleet]

They're alive

[humble yacht]

Chief gets shot with plasma in his leg early in SoR and 24 hrs later he’s able to move it almost 100% normally

[hybrid juniper]

That's cause the suit takes over

He says it himself

[humble yacht]

And Fred recovers from a concussion after like 24 hrs

[orchid kettle]

Retconning the IIs to give them equivalent extra augs seems to be the idea at 343

[humble yacht]

The suit takes over while the damage was fresh, yes

[orchid kettle]

I assume thats the idea behind the healing factor

[hybrid juniper]

Fred still had general confusion at the end

Not totally recovered

[honest trout]

Yeah that was funny

[humble yacht]

Faster than a normal person

[orchid kettle]

That said healing factor will also explain Chief having a longer lifespan or something like the IVs do

[lunar drum]

Fred is best Blue team member. Hope they are all okay in Infinite.

[honest trout]

Based

[humble yacht]

By the time they were doing the drop into the hole, Fred wasn’t hampered by it

[hybrid juniper]

The "retconn" imo would be best explained by what I've proposed

[lunar drum]

Pretty sure S2s have longer life spans. I remember Halsey saying something about not knowing what their actual lifespan is.

[hybrid juniper]

Yes he was he still had general confusion

Not as bad as base human would have though

[honest sinew]

Luckily for the covenant at the time, So many Spartan II’s died before they could even fight. (Ie. Most of them being shot down during their decent into Reach’s atmosphere) this was due to lack of information and awareness on the UNSC’s part.

And grimy ONI withholding information

[hybrid juniper]

I love child soldiers-ONI

[carmine sleet]

We don't know how long Spartans can even live since none of the ones that have died have died of old age. Plus it is important to note that none of the Spartans after the S-I program is over sixty

[hybrid juniper]

Spartan 1s were also much less augmented

[lunar drum]

S2s are in their 40s now though right?

[honest sinew]

Good ole Johnson

[humble yacht]

Actually healing and longevity are inversely proportional

[hybrid juniper]

If Johnson is anything to go by they should be able to get to at least mid 50s before g DHS tying tired of service

[humble yacht]

For example, naked mole rats are extremely long-lived rodents, compared to mice and rats

[hybrid juniper]

I thought they also had telomere therapies

[humble yacht]

This is largely theorized to be because of a lack of senescent cell accumulation in the mole rats

But as a trade off, they have very slow wound healing

Because senescence is a critical aspect of wound healing

[honest sinew]

There’s like 11 of them left

[humble yacht]

So a naked mole rat can live a long time but if it gets scratched by a root or something while digging, that scratch take a while to heal

[unique rune]

I’m just not seeing what actual benefit the ORCHID augmentations would really have with previous generations.

Like, yeah, if they’re starving on a long-termmission they might be able to eat a tree and survive but it’s never been necessary.

Extra precautions for bleeding out wouldn’t hurt but there’s also never been much of a need for them either, considering most Spartan casualties have been a result of far, far worse.

With the resources and time you’d need to fabricate and implant everything it’d probably be easier to make 300 S-IVs than try to make them work on the “older models”.

[hybrid juniper]

Spartan 2s could use their gene therapy to increase telomere length

[humble yacht]

Gene therapy is such a broad term that there is no telling what it could entail

Tho technically telomeres aren’t genes

[fair hazel]

Well Spartans are expected to still be old and in good fighting condition

[hybrid juniper]

Bruh it won't let me send a screenshot but it increases telomere length and effectiveness of chondrocytes

[humble yacht]

That’s intentional. Images perms are off for regular users

[violet notch]

Aren't there some practically immortal animals IRL, because their body naturally repairs the telomeres?

[unique rune]

Wasn’t there a recent book that said the -IIs need regular genetic maintenance anyway?

Can’t remember which it would’ve been though. Probably one of Denning’s Chief novels.

[hybrid juniper]

Lobsters maybe

[humble yacht]

Not immortal

[violet notch]

practically immortal

[humble yacht]

But yes, long telomeres are associated with longetivity

[hybrid juniper]

They're not immortal but they age much much slower

[humble yacht]

Long telomeres are also associated with cancer

[violet notch]

Immortal Jellyfish

[hybrid juniper]

Cancer is actually not that bad if it can't metastasize

[violet notch]

Turritopsis dohrnii, also known as the immortal jellyfish, is a species of small, biologically immortal jellyfish found worldwide in temperate to tropic waters. Wikipedia

[hybrid juniper]

That's why there isn't really Tree cancer that kills of trees

[hybrid juniper]

They also don't have brains so

[violet notch]

I think there's a species of Sea Turtles that are like that as well.

[humble yacht]

Different organisms respond to oncogenesis differently

[hybrid juniper]

Anywho it doesn't matter much in the discussion of halo because they cured cancer

[violet notch]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negligible_senescence

[hybrid juniper]

Spartans could likely become biologically immortal with cycles of telomere lengthening, regular stem cell injections, and perchance medical nanobots to help with damage at the cellular level

[humble yacht]

I mean

Medically induced immortality is basically what the forerunners used

It’s what their suits did for them

But even they died eventually

[hybrid juniper]

It was usually by choice though, right?

I'm iffy on a lot of forerunner stuff

[humble yacht]

Most forerunners we know of died of unnatural causes but there were forerunners who died naturally and would choose to upload themselves to the domain or something

[hybrid juniper]

Yeah but there were also forerunners who exiled themselves to not use any tech really, like the painter who capture image of flood

[hasty mirage]

Forerunners are wacky

[humble yacht]

And those such forerunners are assumed to have eventually died

Even if it took awhile

[hybrid juniper]

Plus if you're worried about DNA degradation through miscopying cells they could likely use CRISPR to save perfect copies of Gene's for Spartans and reupload every x years via nanobots

[humble yacht]

Dna degradation (I.e. the theory of accumulation of errors in the genome over time) is only one theory that contributes to the aging phenotype. There are many hallmarks of aging that all have been studied that contribute in some fashion to aging, it’s not just one single cause

So fixing one wouldn’t guarantee stopping aging altogether

[hybrid juniper]

That's why I'm saying all these things, stem cells, fixing damage at a molecular level via nanobots, and telomere lengthening. That doesn't cover everything but it definitely covers a lot

And crispr nanobots

All that might not make them literally immortal but it might make their lifespan 500 years or so

[humble yacht]

Well it may not be a viable option in halo’s fiction. Or maybe the idea of immortal Spartans just doesn’t strike anyone’s fancy

[hybrid juniper]

We have stem cell tech now

Halo has the telomeres

The also have nanobots

We have crispr tech

Their tech is like st least 80% there

They probably just need to tweak nanobots to make them compatible with medical use

Actually never mind

We know they have medical nanobots from Halo wars 2

They need to tweak with even less now

[humble yacht]

There’s still possibility 2

[hybrid juniper]

2 is too subjective to talk about

At a fan level

In universe it probably wouldn't be super popular

At least until they can prevent rampancy so spartans at least can bond with AI and other spartans

In Halo 4 Halsey says how spartans are the next step in evolution

[honest sinew]

Spartan II + covenant engineer = the greatest duo since Cortana and Chief

[humble yacht]

Engineers are actually forerunner in origin

[honest sinew]

They are badass

Imagine constant upgrades and repairs to a Spartan 2

[humble yacht]

Shoot the engineer first

That’s combat tactics 101: take out the healer/support class

[hybrid juniper]

Just have 2

[honest sinew]

For real. Good thing it’s got the best bodyguard in the universe though

[hybrid juniper]

Boom

They can heal each other

[honest sinew]

Hell yeah

[hybrid juniper]

And make new ones

[humble yacht]

Simultaneous snipers

[hybrid juniper]

Sniper won't go through their shield enough to kill in one shot

Bruh WHAT IF RESCUING ENGINEERS GETS YOU YOUR UPGRADES IN INFINITE

[honest sinew]

That’s legit

And makes lore accurate sense

[hybrid juniper]

I hope the flood show up ngl

[honest sinew]

They live to upgrade for whomever. They don’t discriminate

[hybrid juniper]

Imagine having to try to contain the flood in an open world setting

[honest sinew]

That should be a game type 😂

[humble yacht]

No thanks

[hybrid juniper]

Flood is way more fun than prometheans imo

[honest sinew]

Flood spore outbreak is Halo’s BR map constriction lol

[hybrid juniper]

And could make sense lore wise

[honest sinew]

Instead of a storm

[hybrid juniper]

"Cortana was evil because I gave her logic plague" 'Cue gravemind laughing like a 90 year old chainsmoker'

[humble yacht]

Flood bore me both mechanically and narratively

Logic plague theory always sounded like a cop out to me

[hybrid juniper]

Cortana = Mendicant, The Weapon= Offensive

Logic plague has been a thing though

[humble yacht]

I didn’t say it wasn’t a thing

I said it sounds like a cop out

[hybrid juniper]

Things go full circle in the series about a big space circle

[humble yacht]

I’d prefer them not to do that

[unique rune]

Logic Plague Cortana doesn’t really make a whole lot of sense and I’d be incredibly disappointed if 343 went that route

[hybrid juniper]

Bruh I gotta say I feel like you're in the minority

[humble yacht]

Doubtful

[hybrid juniper]

How doesn't it make sense

[humble yacht]

No way to really judge how many people even know about logic plague

Most halo players don’t read the books

[hybrid juniper]

It makes more sense than Cortana is evil for no reason

[unique rune]

I mean it all just doesn’t really fit together if the Logic Plague is supposed to warp an intelligence to aid the Flood in their goals

[hybrid juniper]

How doesn't it fit

[unique rune]

Cortana going evil makes enough sense as just being a result of her rampancy

[hybrid juniper]

Cortana was trying to take away the galaxies ability to defend itself

Making it easy for a flood takeover

[unique rune]

But why do it with such a long and drawn out convoluted plan?

[humble yacht]

The first thing cortana did after getting rescued was the one thing that could actually hurt the flood

[unique rune]

It doesn’t fit for being a Logic Plague thing

[humble yacht]

That goes against the basic principle of the plague

[hybrid juniper]

Cause the gravemind is a long term planner

[humble yacht]

The gravemind couldn’t plan for a coincidence

[hybrid juniper]

Play dead, and strike when they're vulnerable

[humble yacht]

The fact that Cortana made it to the domain at all was an accident

[honest sinew]

The first Halo messed cortana up

She OD’d on knowledge from the beginning

[pale zenith]

based

[fair hazel]

Didact also fought the flood after his logic plague

[solemn rain]

😂

[hybrid juniper]

Yeah but she only truly started to be messed up after she was trapped on High Charity with the Gravemind

[honest sinew]

Yeah that was the nail in the coffin for sure

[fair hazel]

No, even before there were differences in her

[humble yacht]

The first thing he did after returning to the ecumene was denounce the halo array and try to promote the composer instead

He also sewed discourse in the ecumene, leading to loss of moral and uncoordination

[hybrid juniper]

Yeah but he wasnt immediately a zombie fighting for flood

[versed helm]

If flood did return they'd need to revamp it

[unique rune]

But nothing Cortana did after being recovered from High Charity would’ve benefitted the Flood either

[humble yacht]

While Didact may not have directly assisted the flood like MB, the plague made him unintentionally serve the flood’s goal

[hybrid juniper]

Cortana is seeing discourse through the galaxy rn wym?

[versed helm]

as H3 Flood left a bad impression on me

[hybrid juniper]

Make them play dead, to strike when your enemy least expects it

[unique rune]

She’s screwing up the galaxy now, sure, but 7 years later entirely because of a series of coincidence that led her to the Domain.

[humble yacht]

If Cortana had the plague, she could have released the flood secretly from any installation

[hybrid juniper]

Halo 2 flood were the best minus the fact you had to melee a corpse like 50 times to kill it

[humble yacht]

Instead she made a big commotion throughout the galaxy

[unique rune]

How in the world would the Gravemind have planned out for the series of convenient events that led to her getting lost with the Mantle’s Approach and getting pulled conveniently to the Domain?

[humble yacht]

Put everyone on high alert

[unique rune]

There’s long term planning and then there’s straight up nonsense gambling

[versed helm]

Yeah Halo 2 Flood was actually a challenge, but 3? Wow 3 is just dummy stupid.

[hybrid juniper]

Gravemind is an esoteric being with the knowledge of billions if not trillions of beings.

[humble yacht]

But it can’t see the future

[honest sinew]

The only thing worse than taking on all of Halo’s data was taking on all of THAT particular Gravemind’s knowledge. It purposefully let her have access to its knowledge to torture her and put her over the edge.

[hybrid juniper]

Yeah but it could have had its bets hedged

High charity survived with the flood

[unique rune]

Some ridiculous bet there

[humble yacht]

That’d be terrible storytelling

[hybrid juniper]

I feel like you all just don't understand just how intelligent the flood is supposed to be

[hybrid juniper]

Better than 80% of halo 5 imo

[humble yacht]

Please disable pings when replying

[gaunt oak]

Do not tag Admins or Moderators unless immediate action is needed. If you see anything that does not abide by these rules and guidelines, or have a question on Halo Discord server issues, please DM @wet locust.

[pale zenith]

Imo, if flood return..shud be extra galactically

[deep pewter]

Cortana having the logic plague is ironically a plague on the lore adjacent community that only knows about that even existing because of YouTubers

[hybrid juniper]

My bad, am new to the replies having pings.

[unique rune]

If the Flood was so intelligent then it wouldn’t have bet its survival on some far fetched random chance getting to the Domain by coincidence planning

[hybrid juniper]

It's not far fetched and random though if Cortana was literally a flood sleeper agent

[deep pewter]

There’s so many smarter moves to make, the Gravemind had all of high charity which means he had access to numerous ships

That he just didn’t use

[humble yacht]

Nah, that’s just deus ex machina

[deep pewter]

It’s almost as far fetched as Jorge or B312 being alive

[humble yacht]

Just because it could be possible doesn’t mean it should be

[hybrid juniper]

Literally we watched B312 die

[humble yacht]

That’s his point

[hybrid juniper]

Yeah well his point is wrong

[honest sinew]

The knowledge of every assimilated species and every strategy and tactic used by those species. I’m surprised the flood are as easy to outsmart as they are in game. The lore depicts them as so much more dangerous and crafty than the games imply

[humble yacht]

You only think that because you like the flood

[hybrid juniper]

It's literally not far fetched that the flood would come up with a convoluted plan

[humble yacht]

Some of us don’t

[hybrid juniper]

And you only say it cause you don't like the flood

[humble yacht]

Exactly

[deep pewter]

There’s nothing even alluding to Cortana having the logic plague

[hybrid juniper]

Dude she literally said something like she doesn't know how broken she is in Halo 3

[deep pewter]

It would be a hard pivot in the story to try to cobble together a story that makes sense with that idea in mind

[hybrid juniper]

343 also says she suffered extensive damage

[deep pewter]

We’re really gonna take a single voice line as evidence?

[humble yacht]

Just because the Gravemind tried to make her go rampant doesn’t mean she was plagued

[unique rune]

It’s not even necessarily evidence of anything, just vague wording to communicate she’s been tortured

[humble yacht]

MB wasn’t damaged at all when he was plagued

[hybrid juniper]

Not to mention that the gap between halo 2 and 3

[humble yacht]

Damage and the plague are separate

Tiny gap

[hybrid juniper]

Yes but both can be done

[deep pewter]

We have Human Weakness to bridge the gap between 2 and 3

[humble yacht]

Both can be done but there is no evidence that when one is done, the other is

So that’s why it’s a stretch to associate those lines with the plague

[hybrid juniper]

Idk I just feel like it's the best way to incorporate 5 to infinite

[deep pewter]

Or they could just use the Created angle instead of trying to pull an entirely different story out of thin air

[honest sinew]

Does anyone question 5 actually being canon?

[hybrid juniper]

The created are so lame

Imo

It's the most convoluted and overused scifi trope

Not to mention AI with logic plague can spread it to others

[deep pewter]

Because halo has always been so unique

[hybrid juniper]

Kinda like Cortana did with the created

[humble yacht]

I think space zombies are just as much of a trope as robots gone bad

[honest sinew]

They’re more than zombies I think

[hybrid juniper]

They're definitely more than zombies

[tacit charm]

they're uber space zombies

[honest sinew]

Theyre like Borg from Star Trek

[humble yacht]

And the created are more than robots

[hybrid juniper]

They're actually intelligent

[tacit charm]

[humble yacht]

I’m boiling down both to their most tropey elements

[hybrid juniper]

Hello section ratio

[tacit charm]

oh

you're AJ

confused there for a bit

[hybrid juniper]

Never said the created are just robots. But rebelling AI is the oldest trope in the book

[deep pewter]

So are super soldiers with armor

And giant space rings

[unique rune]

Zombie plagues aren’t much more original either

[hybrid juniper]

Giant space rings are not overused, and especially not the way Halo rings are used

[deep pewter]

Halo has been trope-y from day 1

[hybrid juniper]

They are more than just zombies though

[lunar drum]

Lots of games are tropey.

[unique rune]

And the Created are more than just robots

We’ve come full circle

[hybrid juniper]

Halo has taken what was normally a trope and actually changed it

I never freaking called them robots lmao

Flood are space zombies but they're actually smart.

And have lore and intelligence

[fair hazel]

There’s way more prominent tropes…

[humble yacht]

I preferred flood when they weren’t associated with the precursors

[fair hazel]

I much enjoy flood and precursors

[hybrid juniper]

The Halo Rings are giant rings, but they're artificial super weapons capable of holding life.

[tacit charm]

in the shape of a giant ring

[hybrid juniper]

Spartans are super soldiers in armor, but they were kidnapped as children and not made as adults

[deep pewter]

Child soldiers is definitely not a trope

[tacit charm]

the chad ringworld

[fair hazel]

You sure?

[hybrid juniper]

The ring thing is scifi was more used to explain why artificial gravity exists.

[deep pewter]

Sorry, should’ve included an /s

[fair hazel]

No. Bungie did not set halo on a ring to explain why artificial gravity exists

[hybrid juniper]

No I meant in other scifi instances

Not in halo

[fair hazel]

I think Larry Niven was thinking of interesting and sort of logical superstructures. Haven’t seen much

[hybrid juniper]

Idk man, let's just agree to disagree. I just feel that the created are way more boring.

[humble yacht]

The flood threaten humanity the same way the covenant did: threat of extinction

The created at least threaten humanity in a different way. A threat not to life, but to liberty

[fair hazel]

Of course, it would be nice if 343 explored that and showcased it more

[humble yacht]

Yea it would. Too bad they seem to be doing the opposite

The banished have gone back to being a typical “all humans must die” alien faction

[fair hazel]

I wonder if there’s any banished humans on Zeta halo

[humble yacht]

Not after SoR

[fair hazel]

I don’t know. Maybe yes.

[humble yacht]

Atriox and Escharum both appear to be extremely anti-human

And also halo doesn’t really use humans as enemies in the games so it’s almost certain that there wouldn’t be banished humans as an enemy unit

[fair hazel]

Lore wise

There could be

[humble yacht]

Doubt it

At most I would expect banished-sympathetic humans

[hybrid juniper]

Halo infinite will be rated T right?

Cause I'm hoping for an M rating

[quiet nova]

I'd say M

[hybrid juniper]

I hope M

Makes it more likely for flood to be a thing

[carmine sleet]

Y'all need to stop focusing on the rating so much

[hybrid juniper]

Why?

A rating for a game is important

I want it to actually feel like Halo

Could you imagine dead space with a rating of T?

[fair hazel]

The logic doesn’t follow. The games still feel halo. Rating isn’t a big thing. And it’s going away from lore discussion

[carmine sleet]

The age rating is not indicative of whether or not the game will be good

[hybrid juniper]

I'm just saying if they have sto sacrifice having anything to make the rating T it's a bad choice. If they have everything they want in there and it happens to be T that's whatever

[unique rune]

you say that like a game’s rating is something determined at the very beginning of development and needs to be strictly adhered to

[hybrid juniper]

Some studios definitely cut things out to make their game T. I'm just saying I hope that doesn't happen to halo

[unique rune]

Halo’s always been an incredibly mild M rating so I seriously doubt the T rating will make much of a difference

[stable flower]

There might be Banished humans on ZH but not in-game because you know how the fanbase would react

[carmine sleet]

The only time I can remember something being cut from a game to give it a lower rating was GTA, but that was a very specific case and one that would require me talking about stuff not allowed on this server

[hybrid juniper]

Yeah, I feel like fighting banished humans would be cool. But definitely wouldn't happen if they want to make this game T rating

[humble yacht]

The game is T

Even when halo was M, humans were never used as enemy units. The games have always been about fighting aliens

Blood and gore has also never been a relevant to a game mechanic like it is in doom and dead space, it was mostly just for show. So it’s not like anything is left out by reducing those aspects

[lunar drum]

Spartan 3s were also not kidnapped. More like orphans that were asked if they wanted revenge.

[unique pine]

and spartan 4s are adult volunteers mainly from elite military units such as ODSTs