lore-and-universe

[jade wave]

But I do not know that for sure

Oooh

Woops

[gilded mason]

Yeah, the whole thing with Hunt the Truth is that the public doesn't know thr truth there

Oh

[jade wave]

Lol

I mean I can look at it from both perspectives

[unique rune]

Morally bankrupt program saved by convenient alien invasion

[jade wave]

Unethical for sure

But I do not really care all that much

[gilded mason]

For me...Halsey definitely made a hard decision based on the power she had as just a scientist that had no right answer.

However, most of the blame falls on ONI and the UEG at large

[jade wave]

Yeah

[gilded mason]

They're the ones that let the situation get that awful to "require" Spartans to begin with.

[lusty widget]

Hello 🙂

[jade wave]

But then again I do not really think this is the worst thing ever devised by humans

The whole issue with the Insurrection is both sides committed horrible acts

[unique rune]

Yeah, but the Spartan-II program was originally devised to fight the Insurrection. Other humans.

Their effectiveness against the Covenant was just a convenient coincidence.

[jade wave]

The UEG could have simply let them secede

[gilded mason]

^^

Or actually listen to their grievances

[jade wave]

I think by that point Human controlled space was to vast to be controlled solely by the UEG

[gilded mason]

The UEG caused this mess themselves to begin with

Ye

[jade wave]

Well of course

[gilded mason]

They wanted fast and quick surgical strikes on rebel leaders

[unique rune]

Project ORION was moderately successful until it wasn't so they wanted a second shot at it

[jade wave]

The UNSCs regular special forces simply wernt effective enough

[violet notch]

If I recall. The Insurrectionists were colonizing planets outside the UNSC's ability to properly defend them. And when those colonies cried for help the UEG ignored them for not heeding their warnings not to go out too far. And the animosity grew from there.

[jade wave]

I think that was showcased well in Contact Harvest when Johnson couldn’t stop that semi from eviscerating the block

[violet notch]

By "call for help" I don't mean from Covenant attacks.

I mean from other issues like pirates or resources.

The Covenant didn't show up until the insurrection was in full swing.

[gilded mason]

I remember once instance, some corporation on an outer colony basically enslaved the populous. Then the UEG only decided to get involved after the colonists rebelled against it, so they could put the corp back in power.

[jade wave]

Once the UNSC nuked that one colony, all hope for reconciliation was gone

[violet notch]

There was plenty of blame to go around.

The colonists weren't exactly saints either.

Nor was the UEG/UNSC

[jade wave]

A very grey situation

[violet notch]

But the colonists not heeding the warnings of the UEG to not spread too far and too thin didn't help the situation.

[gilded mason]

And I think there was something about "We, the UEG, own any planet a human colonizes, no matter what."

[jade wave]

I don’t know where it was referenced, but I remember Halsey stating that based on calculations by either a supercomputer or AI or something that Humanity/UEG would not survive at the current rate with the Inssurections growth

And she used this as justification for the Spartan II program

[violet notch]

It's true.

And it's undeniable that without the resources of the UEG and UNSC, humanity would have been quickly annihilated by the Covenant.

However, despite it seemingly being "the greater good".

It still doesn't wash off the stain of what it still is at its core.

Tyranny

[gilded mason]

Funnily enough, the Carver findings said (paraphrasingly) "If the situation is not gotten under control soon enough, preferably by force, things will get much worse."

[violet notch]

The oppression of people and their desire for freedom.

[gilded mason]

Carver knew there were less bloody ways to do it

[jade wave]

The problem is that the UEG was growing increasingly authoritarian, on top of that the UNSCs influence was also ever growing prompting a more authoritarian version of the forces that put down rebellions or insurrections. The main point of contention is that the UEG/UNSC were masquerading as this democracy despite them doing almost the opposite

[violet notch]

Remember, these are the good guys!

The ones we're supposed to be rooting for.

[jade wave]

I mean ONI for one destroyed and consumed all other intelligence agencies in the UEG/UNSC

[gilded mason]

I only root for the SoS

😉

The main issue was that the Covenant weren't a factor when things started

[violet notch]

A certain infamous German dictator would agree though 😬

[gilded mason]

So we can judge them based on their original motivations, even if it turned out to be a positive later

[jade wave]

Hindsight bias

Or is it foresight

[gilded mason]

Dunno

[jade wave]

I can’t remember from my psych class

[violet notch]

The real, beyond the 4th wall, reason is actually quite simple.

The guys who wrote the video games wanted to have the obvious military heroes. And appeal to a very American sense of honor in the armed forces. Get a few "ooh-rahs" and make you feel a part of the brotherhood.
But...
The guys who wrote the books and expanded lore didn't want to create such a two-dimensional, black-and-white, heroes vs. villains world. It wouldn't be nearly as interesting or have nearly as much depth. So they threw some blood on the hands of the so-called "heroes" of the story.

[gilded mason]

That reminds me, actually.

[jade wave]

Makes it much more realistic in my mind for sure

[violet notch]

The guys making the games were more focused on making a video game. Which, in true video game fashion, needed some good guys to play as, and some bad guys to shoot at.

The guys making the expanded lore, however, had the task of giving the world-building much more depth and nuance.

[jade wave]

Well said

How unfortunate it is that the lore channel has one of the most interesting convos before I need to go to bed

[gilded mason]

When Trautmann (I think) was asking Bungie why the UNSC had so many ships at the start of the war if they had apparently centuries of peace, Bungie just shrugged and said "Cause it's cool."

So Trautmann had to think up everything regarding the insurrection to justify the UNSC being the way it was.

[violet notch]

That difference in objectives, between the games and the rest of the lore, is what gives the UNSC this weird state where you really really want to root for them... but it almost feels wrong to as well.

[jade wave]

I will always root for the UNSC despite their shortcomings just cause I think they are cool

Literally the same thing with people who like the Empire in Star Wars

[gilded mason]

At this point, for me, I can't legitimately support any faction except for the Swords, since at least they don't seem to have any moral negatives (...so far)

[jade wave]

You mean the group formed out of ex- mass murders?

[gilded mason]

Yup!

[jade wave]

I respect that

[faint escarp]

Si vis pacem, para bellum - If you want peace, prepare for war.

[violet notch]

Lead by the guy with the single largest human body count?

[gilded mason]

Because at least the new government they formed has basically the opposite ideals

Working for a better tomorrow,peace between races, all that jazz

[jade wave]

I mean Sangheili culture ain’t exactly the most tolerant and peaceful one

No I totally get what you are saying

[unique rune]

Yeah, but the Swords are at least making an effort to reform some of the less desirable aspects of it

[gilded mason]

Cultures always mutate, and it's not like there's only one single culture among them

[jade wave]

Of course, it’s also important to note, as you said early, the Spartan program was performed by a very small minority

As well as the handling the insurrection

Well what I am saying is most of humanity had no knowledge of such an action being performed

[violet notch]

Careful with that train of thought, though.

[gilded mason]

Oh, I will definitely feel much better about the UEG/UNSC as soon as things like ONI are dealt with, one way or the other.

[jade wave]

Not all of them, only at the highest levels

[violet notch]

Majorities shouldn't thrive at the expense of minorities.

It... doesn't... yeah... you get where I'm going.

[jade wave]

Actually I’m not even sure if the UEG knew at this point, they simply asked for a solution

[gilded mason]

I am hoping this Created business gives 343 a way out regarding it, maybe by saying ONI was basically cleaned out and the UEG has to start fresh.

"Some of you will die, but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make."

[jade wave]

I’m sure Ancient Humanity would have made similar decisions to completely unify their people

[unique rune]

That kind of ruthless thinking probably contributed to inspiring the Insurrection in the first place

[jade wave]

What’s halo

[gilded mason]

I dunno.

A hula hoop?

[jade wave]

🥺

[unique rune]

High-altitude low-opening

[jade wave]

Diabolical

[lusty widget]

Sorry, didn't mean to interrupt.

[gilded mason]

No, it's fine

[jade wave]

I think we pretty much beat this topic to death

[lusty widget]

Ok, sorry again

[gilded mason]

I forgive you.

[jade wave]

I forgive u

[unique rune]

Man.
I still need to read Renegades.

And Point of Light.

[jade wave]

Point of Light is well worth the read

Lol

[unique rune]

Think I should probably revisit some of the novels I haven't read in a while at some point.

Maybe.

[jade wave]

I have been doing that

It’s amazing how much more I pick up now after several years

Forerunner trilogy was much more understandable

I wish they left reactions in this channel

I have ADHD and have read all of them

[unique rune]

I had a brief spell where I just couldn't be bothered to read anything.
Finally got over it sometime last year.

[jade wave]

If I pick up a book I am interested in, I will not stop until I’ve finished it

[unique rune]

Caught myself up on like, 6 novels in the span of a week?
Don't remember exactly.

Might've been two weeks.

[jade wave]

Nonsense

You could try audiobooks instead

I understand that

I will often look up things when reading to get a visual after trying to picture it in my head

You will find some

I have found images for things in the forerunner trilogy

Which is the book I have the most issue with for imagining things

Lots and lots of detail and scale beyond belief

But maybe that podcast I mentioned could help, they seemed to have some visuals when talking

Of course

[jade wave]

What was your question?

[stable flower]

Didn't the UEG have a hover tank named the Randal?

[austere stone]

do i have to read Point of Light before Shadows or Reach because it’s one year earlier? i picked up both books the other day

[jade wave]

No

I read shadows of reach before point of light and it was fine

[austere stone]

i know i don’t have to there’s no requirement but i feel a strong sense it’s suggested or good

[jade wave]

They don’t really connect

[austere stone]

ah

rip

i’ve heard both are really good, i want mc story more than well

forerunner shenanigans

but i hear point of light gives a lot of heheheh light towards infinite

[jade wave]

I enjoyed both, but I thought PoL was way more interesting

Kind of

More like huge lore dumps

Important info

[austere stone]

ahhh that’s what i’ve been told

what’s the main (without spoilers) gist of shadows?

[jade wave]

Blue team has to go back to reach to get something from Halsey lab

[humble yacht]

I think shadows is going to more relevant to infinite than point

[jade wave]

Yeah

[austere stone]

really? i mean ya with it being a year after cortanas intergalactic tantrum

does the book at least address how and why blue team is together in halo 5 lmao

[humble yacht]

No, for that you should read escalation

[austere stone]

ahhh

dang that’s another book to add to the list, these two are new but i got like five real old halo books, fall of reach, onyx, a few first strike variants

[humble yacht]

Escalation is a comic series

[austere stone]

oooooo

the comics i don’t have but i really tried to look for them in my barns and noble but came upon shadows and PoL

also does anyone else have the fall of reach movie but still in packaging cuz u already seen it and it’s almost not worth watching twice lmao

[jade wave]

I think it’s on YouTube?

[austere stone]

i think that’s how i initially watched it then i found it at walmart in a bargain bin along with a season of red v blue so i have that in wrapping too lmao

[jade wave]

RvB 💀

[pulsar pivot]

Good show

[versed helm]

Red vs blue was the best show

[pulsar pivot]

Indeed

[devout abyss]

why weren't the Jiralhanae in Jul Mdama's """"Covenant""""?

[jade wave]

Probably cause Jul himself did not trust them

Not to mention most Jiralhanae returned to Doisac as well as many joining the Keepers of One Freedom/other Jiralhanae led groups and the Banished

[slim thorn]

Their attitude is also an issue, as Jul Mdama's covenant harbors the hatred to Jiralhanae after what they did during Great Schism.

[jade wave]

Very true

[humble yacht]

Jul was chock full of prejudices

though tbf it was warranted against the rbutes

[gilded mason]

Also, there were Brutes in it. We just didn't see them in-game

[stable flower]

Brute and Elite beef is still strong

[craggy sierra]

Depends on who you talk to

Banished is mostly fine

[slim thorn]

I'm mostly believe that Pavium will take over Atriox's command on The Ark when he's away.

[humble yacht]

doubt it

[fair hazel]

the wreckless actions did help them find the anodyne spirit

[slim thorn]

And furthermore, Pavium remains cool-headed when dealing with the flood. Even though I'm aware that he can't save Voridus from Atriox's punishment this time.

Well... The one who cause the mess was Voridus, and Pavium was obligated to help him.

[humble yacht]

pavium may have not been the main perpetrator, but he didn't stop voridus

nothing about pavium's actions deemed him worthy of leading the banished in atriox's stead

[gilded mason]

Wasn't Pavium in a different part of the Ark when Voridus decided to disregard the orders not to go to High Charity?

Since Pavium only found out what Voridus did later on

[humble yacht]

i didn't play it but halopedia says that both brothers were tasked on that salvage mission

and iirc they were together in the cutscene when voridus opened the shield

checked, they weren't together, but still, pavium failed to keep an eye on his problematic brother

[slim thorn]

They did, but Pavium was assigned to other area of the Outer shell, so he can't stop Voridus for breaching the containment shield.

Pavium did already reminds him not to breach it, but instead, Voridus himself ignores it.

[stable flower]

Those fools thought the Flood were a myth

[humble yacht]

Nah, I’m sure voridus knew the flood was real but thought he could handle anything that came out of high charity

[waxen anchor]

Any lore based on Jul M’dama’s rise from when he came out of some random Elite world to arriving at Requiem with a crud ton of ships?

Like between the Kilo-Five trilogy and the events of Halo 4

[humble yacht]

What makes you think hesduros didn’t have ships?

[stable flower]

It tickles me that not only were Covenant Loyalists living on the Anodyne Spirit, but that they managed to have the upper hand against the Banished when they raided it.

[terse lava]

Pavium constantly warned his brother to obey Atriox's orders, right up to the last transmission seconds before Voridus ignored them.

[coarse trail]

Im worried that Halo Infinite, for all the good it will bring, and will become, at launch - there's no lore that will justify Cortana and the Banished duking it out together with Chief on the Halo ring

[terse lava]

Well she is hunting the Infinite, and obviously something bad went down in the ring to cause the damage we see

[versed helm]

I still wonder, who was the prisoner that taught the Ussans a form of meditation

[limpid meadow]

Why wouldn't they? They had more resources at their immediate disposal and the element of surprise. The Banished weren't expecting Loyalist survivors, never mind ones are with Phantoms. They were completely outmatched.

[jade wave]

^

[terse lava]

Speaking of those loyaltists, I wonder if they can technically count as their own mini covenant. I figure a fair chunk of the San shyuum priests remained aboard, along with that random prelate. Plenty of food and massive living space

[unkempt spear]

The day before I played reach again and I realize that the doctor and cutter were to blame for their deaths. I thought she got over it but no

[versed helm]

Whatever became of Offensive Bias? because we never see it again

[unkempt spear]

We all speak a different topic xD

[slim thorn]

I think Rtas should revisit The Ark if that's the case, considering he will hunt all San Shyuum's down to the last man to receive his judgment either spared or killed.

[stable flower]

Now that I think of it, it makes sense, seeing how the Banished were already weakened due to dealing with the Flood.

[slim thorn]

UNSC also got weakened, but my guess is they were able to evacuate most of their crew, since they already have experience in dealing with the flood before. The cost is they ditch all of their vehicles.

[pulsar pivot]

They've been attacked a lot

Banished, promethians, any covenant

[slim thorn]

No, I mean the UNSC on the Ark, the SoF Crew and the soldiers.

[pulsar pivot]

Ou

Oh

[terse lava]

I wouldn't see Rtas going there, as he was after the San shyuum exile fleet

[waxen anchor]

what the heck is the subject rn lol

[pulsar pivot]

Idk

Do we have a exact number of how many ships were in thel's fleet

[waxen anchor]

at least 5

[pulsar pivot]

Ok

[jade wave]

I disagree. I would say... at least 6....

[pulsar pivot]

Something tells me it's a lot more than 6

[slim thorn]

But that doesn't mean Rtas will switch his destination should he learn that there are San Shyuum hiding at Anodyne Spirit.

Fleet of Retribution got at least 10 ships in services

[fair hazel]

also pavium was pretty rtesponsible

[toxic hatch]

How come the forerunners didn’t repopulate after they fired halo?

[gilded mason]

Because they felt they didn't deserve it.

[toxic hatch]

They repopulated other planets but not their own

Ah right

Dunno why they wouldn’t deserve it but if that’s the answer that that’s the answer

[gilded mason]

Because they felt all the horrible things that previously happened in the galaxy was because of them.

[toxic hatch]

What else had happened except from the flood invasion?

[jade wave]

Uhh

[gilded mason]

Committed genocide on the San'Shyuum, exterminated other sapient species, de-evolved humans while the humans can see and feel it happening to them, etc

[jade wave]

Not to mention the eradication of the Precursors

[terse lava]

Don't forget actually wiped out life from their home system thanks to early tinkering with stars. Caused multiple supernova

[stable flower]

Well they did wipe out their creators which led to lots of bad things, so yeah.

[toxic hatch]

Didn’t realize they were so bad

I was watching the second episode of halo legends, why I wanted to know

[waxen anchor]

@terse lava Was the supernovas their fault?

[jade wave]

Yes. It was a stellar engineering accident

[terse lava]

Yep

[jade wave]

All but one of their 12 original home systems were destroyed or made uninhabitable

[terse lava]

At least its been implied to be their fault this far

[jade wave]

I’m pretty sure in the forerunner trilogy they say it was

Not sure who said it though

[waxen anchor]

Huh, mhk

Frankly the entire forerunner trilogy was a fever dream for me

All i remember was the Didact was a little b**ch

And also there was like 200 pages of people just walking on Zeta Halo

[jade wave]

I thought the Didact was pretty cool, he has a pretty tragic story

[last anchor]

Not an issue, the Spirit can just make more

They have near unlimited supplies coming in from the Ark itself plus their entire stocked war factory aboard.

[stable flower]

Yeah, but they've lost lots of personnel, personnel that can't be replaced, therefore they'll have more vehicles than troops. If they run out of ground troops they'll have to resort to using drones.

[terse lava]

I saw nothing wrong with the didact. How exactly was he a wimp?

[slim thorn]

Well... He was responsible since he didn't keep Voridus in check at all times. But, it happens if you're working on the field as well as you can't just keep checking your subordinates at all times when you're being tasked to do the job by the higher-ups as well.

[terse lava]

Hardly, the blame can't be thrown on Pavium

[slim thorn]

The problem is, SoF only have a half of the crew staffing it, so even they can stockpile it, the production is not going to be simple. SoF can't risk lose more crew as it will increase the burden.

[oak turret]

https://tenor.com/view/kramer-what-did-imiss-door-open-gif-15073769

[cobalt quiver]

In your own words, why did the UNSC lose the battle of reach?

[fair hazel]

Because they were outnumbered, outmatched, and outsmarted

[slim thorn]

UNSC got a total of around 600 to 700 warships during the Human-Covenant War, around 50-60% are Frigates

[versed helm]

I could take them all out no problem ✅

[fair hazel]

That’s an fan estimate not a hard number

[pulsar grail]

the covenant were just better 😎

[violet notch]

Their orbital superiority was their greatest strength.

Any ground victories often meant nothing in the end, the Covenant would just glass it all if they were losing.

[steep ether]

i think some people are comparing the covenant in reach to the one in ce

[graceful scarab]

Forgive me if this is obvious for most of you, but why did the Covenant glass Reach? Wasn't the whole reason they invaded it instead of just glassing it first because there were a lot of Forerunner artifacts on the planet?

[steep ether]

the covenant at reach had more fleets and a better trained army, only the fleet of particular justice was at 04

[steep ether]

yes, and it was one of the most important human strongholds for the unsc

[graceful scarab]

But by the time the glassed it, they had pretty much taken over most of it hadn't they?

[slim thorn]

The Covenant will never glass any area that has Forerunner artifacts in it, and that gives humans a fighting chance at the planet.

[graceful scarab]

So why did the Covenant glass Reach?

[slim thorn]

They wage genocide on human, as Prophet of Truth's statement.

It's also Humanity's last bastion at Epsilon Eridani.

[steep ether]

yea

[graceful scarab]

So they were fine with trading off destroying Forerunner artifacts for wiping out Reach?

[slim thorn]

No

Everything related to the Forerunner Artifact, it will be not worth it when you glass it along with the artifacts.

[graceful scarab]

So why did they glass Reach if it would destroy the Forerunner artifacts?

[slim thorn]

Like I said, they glass Reach, but not at where it has a Forerunner artifacts.

If there were area that doesn't have a forerunner artifacts, they will glass it.

[graceful scarab]

Oh

[slim thorn]

If there were, the Covenant will refrain from glassing it.

Harvest and Reach are the prime example of why the Covenant can't glass the entire planet.

[stable flower]

If they glassed Forerunner artifacts, the Shipmaster responsible would probably be executed.

[graceful scarab]

You mean "banished"

[stable flower]

😁

[craggy sierra]

Glaasing is mostly a surface level thing and most forerunner stuff is buried deep

[humble yacht]

Certainly, direct glassing of forerunner constructs was frowned upon

[undone kestrel]

does glassing involves glass

[versed helm]

Yes.

Halo reach taught us that

[undone kestrel]

[humble yacht]

what's the word from SoR that means glass?

[gilded mason]

Lechatelierite, the word everyone loves to hear.

[undone kestrel]

[versed helm]

Do the GEN 3 armour sets have stronger energy shields when compared to the previous ones?

[limpid meadow]

We don't know

[rocky gust]

Bigger number must mean better

[steep ether]

we know it has faster recharge rates

[slim thorn]

And it features nanites, or nanomachine

[pulsar pivot]

Nano machines, son

[undone kestrel]

[versed helm]

I dont see squidward being added to smash cuz why not

[rose garden]

this isn't halo related but i agree

back to halo

[undone kestrel]

front to halo

[waxen anchor]

Why did the Flood retreat during the Forerunner-Flood war?

Was it because he knew it would sow discord among the Forerunners?

[jade wave]

I think you are getting confused with the Flood retreating during the Human-Forerunner war/Human-Flood war

[waxen anchor]

I mean

not really

the forerunner flood war basically began with the flood retreating

isnt that why a bunch of forerunners thought humanity had a cure but just wasn't telling them what it was

[jade wave]

Yeah I guess

[waxen anchor]

Lol

👍

[jade wave]

And yeah the Primordial just did that to mess with the forerunners basically

[waxen anchor]

what a legend

I want to see a Planetmind

Is that what they're called?

Like a gravemind that has an entire planet taken over

[jade wave]

It was also so humanity could put up stiffer resistance to the forerunners to weaken them

A key mind

[waxen anchor]

Key mind

yeah

i remember hiddenxperia did a vid on that

What was the source on those?

Was it just a lore drop?

[jade wave]

I think it was just referenced in the forerunner saga

I can’t remember specifically but it’s mentioned somewhere in there

At least I think it is

[waxen anchor]

i am not reading those again

those were a fever dream

ugh im gonna have to though

One day.

[jade wave]

I am in the process of rereading Silentium

Much more understandable after the last time i read

[jade wave]

Oh also I think the primordial did it so that the forerunners would do all those terrible things they did to@humanity to find a cure. That guy really likes suffering

[waxen anchor]

He just like

He just likes it?

Simple as that?

I just finished Point of Light

And the Librarian did say that some precursors liked suffering and some liked peace yada yada

But just like

dang

[slim thorn]

Etran Harborage was almost being turned into a key mind, considering the Flood roams free around the surface before SoF's arrival.

[jade wave]

Well I think it boils down more to that the precursors had complete balance, and since the Primordial was the last precursors as well as just happening as being in the other side of the balance he displays that side of the balance

[stable flower]

Wasn't the Line Installation a Flood research facility?

[terse lava]

Some perhaps, but not the one we are shown. No flood samples were mentioned or seen during the comic

[timid wolf]

fun

[stable flower]

I ask because it says so on the Halopedia article

[waxen anchor]

Why wasn't etran harborage turned into a key mind?

The entire surface of the world was Flood

I guess since the interior layers were still intact

still though, with all that biomass, seems like it should be able to breach the inner layers

[versed helm]

Did I get muted in #general-chat

Well if I did something sorry

Update: it was just a glitch

[gentle lion]

I started reading Silentium a couple of days ago and its really good

[versed helm]

So did the Reformist San'Shyuum lie about Janjur Qom's destruction or is the planet actually gone?

[gilded mason]

We got no idea

[versed helm]

They did say that the star that Janjur Qom orbits was somewhat unstable

I'm starting to get the feeling that we will never find out

[gilded mason]

Most likely

[versed helm]

Just like we will never find out what species crash landed on I04 40k years ago

Or lets just assume that Janjur Qom still exists in the modern era, would that also mean that the Stoics are still around?

[gilded mason]

Perhaps, perhaps not. 3500 years changes cultures quite a bit

[versed helm]

Yep

Imagine what kind of crazy biological technology the Stoics could've created in that time

If they still exist I might add

Like the folasteeds were.. interesting to say the least

Actually, the flora of Janjur Qom is interesting

I still wonder, so how exactly did the Forerunners managed to kill the Precursors?

[fair hazel]

we might see them in the future one day

imagine a new faction

[dawn needle]

Has there been any discussion to recanonize the Spartan 4s as a new generation of ODST?

[carmine sleet]

Why would they do that?

Like, first off, the S-IVs haven't been decanonized. Second, ODSTs are still a thing that exist, the S-IVs didn't replace them

Three, S-IVs are recruited from all branches of the UNSC

[dawn needle]

I’m asking if there have been any fan decent rewrites. Like how Reclaimer Gaming “rewrote” Noble 6 into hunting Chief, rather than Locke.

They’d be cooler though if they were ODST 2.0 though

[steep ether]

no? if you're asking of any IVs are odsts, yes there are odst spartans

[dawn needle]

Ik

[humble yacht]

This channel is for actual lore discussion. For fanon stuff, see if anyone has written fanfictions in #471727324895641651

[steep ether]

"fanon", thats a new word

[humble yacht]

Shortening of fan canon

[steep ether]

i like it

[waxen anchor]

Spartan 4's in ODST drop pods would be cool to see

@versed helm I think, this is just guessing, but the Forerunners DID have advanced technology, just maybe not on par with the Precursors

Sort of like comparing an 1800's musket to a 1900's lmg

[stable flower]

Sounds like Precursor tech was almost supernatural

[waxen anchor]

A musket can still kill

Yeah but the precursors themselves are still living beings

extra dimensional or not

Lol

Imagine they just pretended to die

"agghhhhh.... you got me.... oh no.... everyone is dying....."

[last anchor]

SOIEV's deploy whatever the UNSC needs them too, not just ODSTs.
Spartans. Vehicles. Humanitarian supplies to starving colonies. Explosives. Listening equipment.
If you can lock it into the braces, the SOIEV will bring it down.

[fair hazel]

That’s warzone assault and it’s been done in lore

[last anchor]

Actually come to think of it you could theoretically cram a nuke into one

A small one like a Havoc, or that one from Deliver Hope. But it would still work.

[last anchor]

Theres an entire wiki for it. Halo Fanon.

[slim thorn]

Well... Chief was using ODST drop pods whn Landing on Installation 05.

The drop pods was mainly intended for ODSTs and Spartans for combat in terms of infantry-size.

[waxen anchor]

Yeah, I get that it happens, but to actually see like tens of S4's get dropped into combat that way in a game cutscene would be cool

similar to the one in h2

[versed helm]

So what is everyone's opinion on Halo Nightfall?, I heard it sucked

[humble yacht]

It’s fine

Won’t win any oscars but it’s a good watch if you like halo

[versed helm]

At least it wasn't the Fall of Reach Animated Series, I heard that one was garbage

Especially how they butchered the fight between John and the ODSTs

[tepid barn]

Which magnum is canon

[humble yacht]

All of them

[jade wave]

I thought it was cool to see Halo in a live action series that was take more seriously than previous ones

[violet notch]

If you're asking what's the canon power level of the Magnum?

The answer is, there is none.

Because of all the variations in its representation, there's no 1 definitive version. The books vary just as much as the games do. And this isn't just the Magnum we're talking about, but most other weapons as well. If memory serves, there's a scene in the Fall of Reach book where the Needler takes down a Spartan's shields in practically 1 hit. Something that just doesn't happen in game.

[tepid barn]

O ok

[violet notch]

Sorry if it's not the answer you were looking for. But basically all the weapon power levels in any representation are just whatever that medium needs them to be at the time. Whether that be for narrative reasons, or gameplay balancing.

[tepid barn]

No u answered it perfectly thx

[versed helm]

I also heard that Forward Unto Dawn was terrible

[humble yacht]

I liked it

[tepid barn]

It was prolly the best halo movie idk

[versed helm]

I guess but John's armor design was iffy at best

[humble yacht]

It was an early Mark iv iteration and it was on screen for a few moments at most

[tepid barn]

I think there was little to less of action imo

[humble yacht]

It’s mostly a drama, yes

[versed helm]

Although I like the scenes when the Covenant showed up, that's where it got more interesting imho

[violet notch]

They actually did a [darn] good job of making the Covenant legitimately scary.

Like, they actually felt like an alien invasion, for a change, where all hope seems lost.

Independence Day or War of the Worlds vibes.

[versed helm]

Is the halo ce magnum in canon called the “halo ce magnum”

[violet notch]

Something that can really only be achieved outside the video game medium, because the natural state of video games is giving the player the necessary tools to survive and combat the enemies. Which takes away a lot of the hopeless atmosphere that comes from an "alien invasion" story.

(wow... my post was deleted because I misspelled "game" with a "y" for dramatic effect.

the censorship on this server is the worst I've ever seen.)

[versed helm]

Gamy

[violet notch]

"Y" before "M"

No "E"

[versed helm]

Ok

[violet notch]

Just being a dork with the spelling, lol

[versed helm]

I make typos more than average

It’s ok

[violet notch]

anyway, back on track...

The Reach game did do a good job at hitting the desperate alien invasion vibes. But the Forward Unto Dawn film still did leagues better, just because it wasn't a "shooty shooty vidja gaeeem"

[steep ether]

no

[humble yacht]

Of course not

[versed helm]

Awww

So what use could those so called "cryobins" that Blue Team and company seized from the ruins of Sword Base have?

[humble yacht]

I’m sure we’ll find out in infinite

[steep ether]

@versed helm its called the M6D magnum

[versed helm]

Aw man the UNSC should’ve named it the halo ce magnum smh

Other than Humanity, the Flood, and all of the races we see in the games, what other races could the Covenant have encountered during their galaxy wide search for the Halos?

[humble yacht]

Literally anything

There are multiple covenant fringe species not in the games but in other lore

[versed helm]

Like how many were wiped out because their either refused the Great Journey or desecrated Forerunner artifacts?

[humble yacht]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[versed helm]

Which also makes me wonder as to how large the Covenant's sphere of influence was prior to the Great Schism, I would like to think that they might have some outposts beyond the confines of the Orion Arm

[gilded mason]

They do

Was confirmed in Warfleet

[versed helm]

Where in Warfleet?

Also, I would like to imagine that the Sangheili, prior to their encounter and subsequent war with the San'Shyuum, might have colonized worlds beyond the Orion Arm

[gilded mason]

Hm. I can't seem to find where I heard the word "outpost", though on page 12, it talks about pioneer missions to outside the Orion Arm

[versed helm]

Did they find anything outside the Orion Arm?

[gilded mason]

Probably

Though it doesn't say

[versed helm]

That sucks

Is it strange to say that the Insurrectionists have some legitimate reasons as to why they are rebelling against the UEG/UNSC?

[gilded mason]

No. A lot of people think so, myself included.

[versed helm]

Agreed, I do have some sympathy for them

[craggy sierra]

Wait how would putting someone with even less personality than Locke into Locke's position help the story?

[jade wave]

I don't think it has to do with personality

[craggy sierra]

That's generally the main criticism of Locke's character

[gilded mason]

Ye, we'd just have the same problem, but even more pronounced

[craggy sierra]

That's taking a jackhammer to rock bottom and daring to go deeper

[jade wave]

I think it mainly derives from Noble Six being classified as Hyper-Lethal, most people really do not think Locke could actually go one on one with the Master Chief

[vocal aspen]

Which I think is pretty ignorant. Since it’s been stated all Spartans are hyper lethal.

[steep ether]

all spartans can be deadly, but 6 and MC are the most lethal

"Dr. Catherine Halsey stated that B312 shared a "hyper-lethal" rating with only one other Spartan"

[humble yacht]

That’s been retconned

[craggy sierra]

All spartans are hyper lethal

[dawn needle]

I think the idea was that they’re both hyper lethal vectors, both were chosen by Cortana. 6 was directly linked to bringing 6 to Chief. I haven’t watched the video in a bit so you’ll have to check it out to get his whole fan retelling.

[humble yacht]

That was the idea but it’s been retconned

[gilded mason]

It was never confirmed that Halsey was talking about John in the first place, anyway. :^)

[humble yacht]

In reality the hyper lethal thing was a marketing ploy to make people feel good about playing as noble 6

[craggy sierra]

And it only cost the respectability of chief's character

[dawn needle]

Sure?

Doesn’t mean they’re on the same level, really. It’s just a classification.

[craggy sierra]

It's overtly mary sue-ish even more than the series about a one man army stopping galactic alien war already is.

[gilded mason]

And the word itself is ridiculous

[craggy sierra]

The analogy I use is "hyper lethal" is the term a kid on the grade school playground uses to describe why his dinobot can beat up your decipticon action figure.

"Because it's hyper lethal"

[humble yacht]

Lol

[gilded mason]

👌

[humble yacht]

Ngl trans metal Dino bot was my fave

I had the figure

[last anchor]

Dont forget, there's the M6A through at least J variation produced by Misrah, plus the multiple upgrades, ammunition swaps and various addon parts you can put in.

Misrahs weaponry systems are fully modular and customizable. The magnums we see in each game are merely one specific version with a specific set of equipment.

[craggy sierra]

Also lore dictates that chief isn't even the best spartan 2 out there. So Reach was kinda tying Noble 6 for 3rd with that.

[last anchor]

Thats what makes them a good "villain"

[craggy sierra]

That's not really a villain situation

That's just politics

[pulsar pivot]

I see it being used in a commercial with something that's the exact same but apparently better

[slim thorn]

It's common for every era to have a rebellion, practically for those who dislikes the government and such.

[versed helm]

So how many Marathon cruisers are left after the war?

[carmine sleet]

Unknown

[versed helm]

I think it's safe to assume that a small handful remain

[jade wave]

Perhaps

The UNSC produced quite a lot a formed the core of a lot of fleets

[versed helm]

If I remember correctly, there were like 8 Marathon cruisers during the Battle of Earth

[jade wave]

I think that was the number in Fleet Admirals Harper's fleet, but there were other fleets there

[versed helm]

Oh yeah

[jade wave]

But we do not have any numbers on those fleets except for whichever one Harper was commanding

And his fleet did actually have 8 Marathon Heavy Cruisers

[versed helm]

Oh yeah

I wonder if the UEG/UNSC have any use for both Neptune and Triton

[jade wave]

I doubt it

Neptune is a Gas Giant and Triton is one of the coldest objects in the Solar System

[slim thorn]

I recall that Io station was near Neptune to give UNSC an early warning of the Truth's fleet arrival.

[versed helm]

That was Jupiter

And wasn't that Regret's fleet

[jade wave]

I would assume it would have picked up both

Unless it was destroyed when Regret first arrived

[versed helm]

It's possible that the UEG/UNSC mine Neptune for Helium-3

[jade wave]

I could see that

although I am not sure how the UNSC/UEG manufactures or harvests Helium-3

[versed helm]

So what is going to happen to Mickey once the whole Created fiasco is over?

[jade wave]

hopefully public execution 😄

just joking of course

[slim thorn]

Depends on how much he can atone it

Probably Alpha-Nine could visit Draco III first, to honor Rookie.

[pulsar pivot]

Rookie got done dirty

He got done in a book

[stable flower]

A lot of people get done in books in 343's Halo

[slim thorn]

If Rookie didn't die, Mickey won't defect, while Dutch could asks Gretchen to become a Spartan earlier. I just feels like Rookie can bring the whole team together. Listening to Buck's rants, sleeping anytime he wants.

[pulsar pivot]

Someone tell me how when your character is holding a energy sword it doesnt burn your hand from the heat surrounding it

[gilded mason]

neural physics

[pulsar pivot]

Can you please elaborate

[gilded mason]

space magic

[pulsar pivot]

Yup

[humble yacht]

lorewise, since the plasma comprising the blade is held in place by an electromagnetic field, it could also be holding in the radiation that would emit as heat. that, or the handle material is extremely well insulated

[jade wave]

i got the joke man dont worry 😄

[gilded mason]

👌

[versed helm]

So what could've happened to the UEG President after Cortana took over Earth?

[stable flower]

She's probably chilling with Lord Hood on Rossbach's World or wherever he is.

[slim thorn]

No, she didn't. IIRC, only Lord Hood, Serin Osman, and I think it was Naomi that escapes Earth along with AI Black Box.

[gilded mason]

Nah, no Naomi

[slim thorn]

Who's the Spartan with Hood and Osman when they escape Earth?

[gilded mason]

I think just some unnamed SIV

[slim thorn]

Oh wait, it's Orzel.

[versed helm]

So what could be happening on Earth by the of Infinite?

[gilded mason]

Ah

Nervous grins all around

[slim thorn]

Home fleet still crippled or immobilized, rendering the fleet combat ineffective. Only a handful of ship can operate, such as UNSC Infinity and Spirit of Fire.

As for daily activities, we may look back at World War II era.

[stable flower]

Reclamation is basically COVID lockdown in the 26th-century

[shy hedge]

Forced quarantine by an evil alien that emp's your entire world

Who will murder anyone who resists her

Basically the same thing

[carmine sleet]

Cortana's not an alien, she's an AI

[versed helm]

I still like to imagine that once this Created crisis is over, there will be a LOT of anti-A.I sentiment and heavy restrictions on the development of artificial intelligence

To be honest, I'd be on board that A.I hate train because I don't trust A.I

[stable flower]

There's a trope for that: AI Is A Crapshoot

[pulsar pivot]

Hold on can I get a explanation for what Cortana did to earth?

[gilded mason]

Used a Guardian to disable it. And might've caused falling ships to detonate upon impact, causing untold damage to wherever they hit. Like what happened in Sydney, Australia.

[versed helm]

So if you could have your own ship, what would you call it?

[versed helm]

UNSC Candice

UNSC Galaxius and it would be a Marathon cruiser

[kindred crane]

Unsc Nebula

[mental robin]

Hello!
So I decided to rewatch Halo 4 Forward unto Dawn (after six year gap of when I last watched it) and something caught my attention. Kelly and Fred where in Spartan III armour while Chief was in II, Does this mean all Surviving Spartan II soldiers had the opportunity to change Mjolnir armour but chief decided not to?

[carmine sleet]

Forward Unto Dawn takes place early on in the Human-Covenant War. Kelly and Fred are just wearing variants of Mark IV armour

That said, behind the scenes, the armour the two are wearing is repurposed suits used for Deliver Hope, hence why it looks like Mark V armour

[pulsar pivot]

Unsc Jolly Rodger

[slim thorn]

UNSC Wings of Journey

[versed helm]

UNSC Get Owned Covies

Who is Cethegus

[sullen tusk]

Are there such thing as civilians in the covenant cuz I’m pretty sure everyone in the covenant is just kinda drafted into the war as soon as they can be

[violet notch]

Yes

The Covenant is a caste system. Your role in Covenant society is based upon your species.

The species we see most often are those who are drafted into the military. Because we're at war with them. We're fighting their military. So it makes sense that most of the time we see the races that are accepted into their military.

That doesn't mean all Elites are soldiers. It just means that the lion's share of their population are soldiers.

But there are canonically several other races that are not allowed to be military. We see one of them in the movie Nightfall.

The Grunts didn't used to be allowed in the military until their rebellion proved that they were capable fighters.

[humble yacht]

Pretty sure all elite males are soldiers

That was part of their culture even before the covenant

There are covenant fringe species which don’t fight, like the yonhet

[jade wave]

All Elite males were certainly capable of being soldiers, they all probably just considered themselves to be warriors

[violet notch]

fdsafdjsakfdsajklfdsajklfds

I said "six" with an "e" in the most medical way possible and my post was deleted.

C'mon man!

I meant it in terms of biological gender

This censorship is driving me crazy!

Lemme retype that... a whole friggin paragraph too...

nvm, I'll just Tl;Dr; it. I'm too annoyed to be bothered to rephrase it again.

[craggy sierra]

It's not really a caste system

Elites had scientists and engineers among themselves

[violet notch]

Elites must breed like rabbits since their death rate would be relatively high since a whole [gender] of their race are dedicated combatants.

[craggy sierra]

They don't though. They have a lot of different professions

It's just that on the front lines of battle' where all of Halo's games take place' you're gonna see a lot more soldiers

[humble yacht]

Sure but isn’t also a traditional requirement for all males to at least be capable of combat?

[craggy sierra]

Probably the same way Sweeden makes you serve like 3 years in the military for public education

That is Sweeden right?

Like yeah everyone probably ends up with some baseline expertise in the matter but it's not everyone's careers

[carmine sleet]

I think that's Switzerland

[craggy sierra]

I got the first two letters of it right and that's close enough for me

[violet notch]

I still think it's not very viable for a species to dedicate an entire half of their reproductive capabilities to combat. Unless each male reproduces enough to make up the difference, that policy could doom the species.

[craggy sierra]

Tbh that's kinda what we did up until like the last 30 years or so.

[violet notch]

We didn't dedicate every male to war. Just a large portion. And up until the last 30 years or so. Our reproductive rate was able to sustain that.

Nowadays they're saying we're not even hitting an average 2 kids per each 2 parents anymore.

[humble yacht]

Maybe elites were just too good to die in combat

Until Chief came around

[craggy sierra]

Luckily neither do elites. like our forces from the world war era not every man is gone to war on the front line.

[violet notch]

True.

But again. We didn't 100% full throttle that policy either. There were still plenty of men who never got drafted or enlisted, and stayed home.

Luckily there was also a baby boom after the war(s) were finally over. Which helped replaced the losses.

[carmine sleet]

Only because they were unable to fight for reasons beyond their control

[violet notch]

But the Elites in the Halo universe don't seem to be following the same pattern as IRL.

[carmine sleet]

Like, you wouldn't be sending someone with a physical disability, such as missing limbs, to go fight in a war under most circumstances

[humble yacht]

Elites also had a much larger pop than humans

[violet notch]

They seem to be full throttle 100% dedicated. And don't seem to get any breaks to repopulate either. Especially thanks to their Civil war.

[humble yacht]

They’d settled multiple worlds before we landed on the moon

[violet notch]

True, but...

[carmine sleet]

The civil war isn't stopping Elites from having kids

[craggy sierra]

It's vague but I'm pretty sure elites didn't either. Cause again they had scholarly roles. Researchers and engineers, also they had infrastructure support across 900 colonies they had to deal with. There were lots of roles that elites needed to fill and it doesn't seem like they were letting their women do that much of those either.

[violet notch]

I still think that at the rate this is going, it'd be unlikely their population would be able to stave off the issues faced by these practices for much longer.

[carmine sleet]

It's only more recently under Thel that the women have been allowed to serve a larger role in Elite society

[jade wave]

That is not true

[craggy sierra]

Like they have an economy and stuff. Their food needs to come from somewhere. There's also a civillian population in needs of goods and services and hell even the millitary personnel in their off time.

[jade wave]

Women had significant power in the keeps

[violet notch]

It sounds like that might also be more out of desperation to recruit more warm bodies for the cause.

We're running out of men? Recruit the women.

[craggy sierra]

I'm pretty sure it's just cause Thel's a progressive

[violet notch]

That may be. But it still feels forced.

[carmine sleet]

That's not why women are serving in Thel's military at all

[violet notch]

It's just how it comes off.

At least to me anyway.

[craggy sierra]

Dude saved the universe with humanity, a force that allowed open recruitment in its ranks. It's not hard for him to come home after that and be like "why are we limiting our roles like this"

[violet notch]

When you put it like that, it makes sense. But even in humanity it was desperate. Humanity was losing, and was on the verge of extinction.

[craggy sierra]

Humanity also allowed anyone to join its millitary for 500+ years at that point

I don't think we're fighting a desparate war against aliens at this very moment

[carmine sleet]

Humanity wasn't recruiting women into the UNSC military because they were desperate, it was just standard practice in the UNSC to recruit someone because they wanted to join, regardless of any factors outside those that would actually prevent them from being able to do the job they were signing up for

[craggy sierra]

Every first world millitary right now in the current year of 2021 allows women to join

[violet notch]

Most first world militaries right now are also not in major open conflicts the likes of which we used to see.

[limpid meadow]

And?

[violet notch]

And even then, most of the women of the military are filling supportive positions, and aren't on the front lines.

[craggy sierra]

Idk what that means cause your rationale is that it was being done out of desparation and no one's really desparate right now

[craggy sierra]

Uhhhhhh

[jade wave]

What

He is correct

[carmine sleet]

There are definitely women who serve on the front lines

[violet notch]

I said "most"

[limpid meadow]

That's today's militaries. You can't compare that to how things will be in 500+ years

[humble yacht]

Why are y’all even talking about today’s militaries?

[jade wave]

Exactly

[violet notch]

Comparing the policies to fictional future militaries

[humble yacht]

500 years is a long time, ueg got more progressive

Big whoop

[violet notch]

The problem is the situation now is nowhere near the situation the UNSC was facing.

[craggy sierra]

The point was that in the Halo universe it wasn't some desparation strat that we had equal rights forces but just a matter of "that's literally just what millitaries were doing for 500 years at that point"

[humble yacht]

Women were a staple of the UNSC long before the covenant war

[limpid meadow]

^^^

[violet notch]

[Edit: for the sake of context, my post above this one was deleted, and without it, this post my seem out of nowhere]

This is also, of course, not applying to programs which would eliminate innate biological differences like the Spartans.

That's an obvious exception.

[craggy sierra]

[jade wave]

I do not think it really matters. The halo universe does not really touch on things like this as it does not really matter

We are talking about a fictional universe

[violet notch]

True

[humble yacht]

This is starting to tread into a bad area

Time to move on

[violet notch]

How?

I'm just being 100% real and honest.

[humble yacht]

Think about it

[limpid meadow]

If people can make it through the training , they're qualified. That's it.

[violet notch]

I think I know what you're getting at. But I think you're thinking too much into it.

[humble yacht]

Too bad

Time to move on

[jade wave]

I think you are thinking to much into it. I understand what you are saying but it does not really matter in the grand scheme of things in Halo

[violet notch]

Fine. I can accept that a fictional world can get away with ignoring things like that for narrative reasons. I was only approaching it from a realistic standpoint.

[obsidian thistle]

So moving on. Anyone here ever dig into the obscure pieces of Halo media? :D

[limpid meadow]

All the time!

[obsidian thistle]

Always love that stuff!

[limpid meadow]

Well, as often as you tweet about it, honestly 😛

[obsidian thistle]

Pffft

I was digging into old toy lore the other day. Always fun to see just how far back some stuff go.

I recently learnt Drones being engineers on ships began as a Joyride toy description

Something that wasnt cemented into mainline fiction till if I recall Contact Harvest

[limpid meadow]

Seems to be a common occurrence: certain lore elements first showing up in old Joyride toy descriptions.

[violet notch]

Yeesh...

[obsidian thistle]

Oh yup. A lot of it surprising holds up

Kinda love that

Very lil was outright retconned

Or they follow the original The Fall of Reach to a T

[cerulean wraith]

where was outskirts map from halo 2 taken place in earth?

[carmine sleet]

Old Mombasa

[versed helm]

Wait rlly

New Mombasa was a different place ❓

[violet notch]

No. Same city. The "outskirts" of the city just happened to be the older part of the city.

[cerulean wraith]

ohh

[versed helm]

No wonder why the buildings looked -;—#,

[mortal plank]

Is there a ship larger than the infinity?

[steep ether]

no unsc ship

[mortal plank]

I found a drunasscas

I can’t send photo tho

[steep ether]

i think thats non canon

[mortal plank]

O

Ok cool then

Thanks

[steep ether]

i have to check again

[mortal plank]

Let me know pls

[humble yacht]

Infinity is the biggest UNSC ship but plenty of other ships are bigger

LNOS, Mantle’s Approach

[mortal plank]

Thanks

Friend sent to me then I got bare confused

[violet notch]

What would you call High Charity? A ship, space station, planetoid?

[humble yacht]

Space station

[violet notch]

It's a bit like the Death Star, ain't it? Big but still movable.

[humble yacht]

Yeah, it’s primary mobility seems to be through slipspace portals

I doubt you’d just see it fly by normally

[dusty prawn]

Also they call the Death Star a space station in Star Wars anyway.

[slim thorn]

But the thing is, it can be also called a Mobile Colony ship, considering High Charity inhabits the Covenant Main Force and has town build inside it.

[versed helm]

What is everyone's opinion on Bad Blood?

[gilded mason]

It's "eh"

[versed helm]

I heard it wasn't that good

[fair hazel]

Bad blood is a fun and great book

[versed helm]

So what were some of the strong points of the Kilo-5 trilogy?

[gilded mason]

uh

Can't really think of any

[jade wave]

What do you mean by strong points?

[versed helm]

Like what were some of the good parts

[gilded mason]

It ending. :^)

[versed helm]

Yeah, the whole trilogy sucked

Especially the constant Halsey bashing, that woman can't catch a break

[jade wave]

I still found it very interesting

But traviss really left a lot to be desired

Destroyed Halsey’s character just cause she wanted to

[unique rune]

What is everyone's opinion on Bad Blood?
I enjoyed it, but in a lot of ways it felt very fanservicey and a number of the events just feel very... convenient.

[radiant nacelle]

wondering if anyone can help me, i remember hearing about a story in the halo universe where a human and elite prisoner paired up to escape their prison that was being boarded by the flood. anyone know what that is? tried looking it up but got nothing.

[gilded mason]

Thinking of The Mona Lisa?

[radiant nacelle]

YES! thank you!

[gilded mason]

👍

[versed helm]

Yeah only one that comes to mind is that animated movie

So how do you think 343 will explain the hexagonal build of the halo ring in Infinite? I'm only asking this because the last time we saw a ring under construction or deconstruction was in Halo 3 in the mission, "Halo".Do you think they'll answer it by saying that it's because it was part of the original set of rings?

[radiant nacelle]

could be just an alternate building method

[humble yacht]

I think you’re overthinking it, it’s probably a stylistic change

Besides, that H3 level didn’t really show portions of the ring where the environment and the in-progress building met

[versed helm]

I don't think that adds up well with what was visualized in H3, with the almost industrious construction of the ring

I still believe that it could be because of the difference in design between the old and "new" rings. I say "new" because they are almost as old as the other rings

[tender cove]

I wonder, did the forerunner and the ancient human ever negotiate during the war? about the flood and why should they stop fighting and help the humans beat the flood

[humble yacht]

No

They didn’t talk until the forerunners had already won. But by then the damage was done

[tender cove]

oh.

[versed helm]

I like to know more about the planets that ancient humanity discovered those starships that carried the organic powder that became the Flood

Do we know anything about those planets?

[limpid meadow]

Humanity did try to talk to the Forerunners during the war, but the Forerunners didn't believe them since Humanity had already been attacking planets by then.

[limpid meadow]

Just that some where inhabited, other uninhabited, and all of them on the outer borders of the galaxy, having come from the Large Magellanic Cloud.

[last anchor]

Only "old" one left is 07 so

[pulsar pivot]

I wonder how the flood got on that one covenant ship on 04

The one where Rtas was first met by the flood

[chilly shuttle]

Probably through a dropship.

[pulsar pivot]

Probably

[chilly shuttle]

In fact, I think that was how it was shown in the GN... I'll have to double-check.

[rain imp]

You mean Truth and Reconciliation? It was disabled by Cortana while she evaded with the Pillar when they found Alpha Halo. They had to put down for repairs, and were attacked by the flood (eventually) and boarded. The Covenant were using it as a command post when it first berthed on the Halo ring.

[pulsar pivot]

No the one that was in charge of feeding the fleet

Let me check what it is called

It had the minister of etiology

The infinite Succor

[rain imp]

Oh, Infinite Succor.

They stole a Spirit Dropship as it came to reinforce the swamp team. They then boarded it and were met with little resistance.

[pulsar pivot]

Interesting

[rain imp]

By the time the Covenant realised who was on the Spirit, they were already inside the docking bay

[pulsar pivot]

Uh oh

For them

[rain imp]

Indeed. And they only had Grunts on guard duty as they didn't think an agri-ship would need anything more.

I might have to add it to my list of videos to make. It's not something that has really been gone over in detail.

(not that it really needed it, but you know what I mean)

[pulsar pivot]

Ok

[untold carbon]

So what's the state on Forerunners and Humans being the same after Point of Light?

[rain imp]

From what I understood, Humans might possibly be the "lost rate", like philosophers.

[stable flower]

I ask the same about the Flood and Precursors

[rain imp]

I don't think they're the same. I think humans and forerunners shared a common ancestor.

[rain imp]

That's another matter. I don't think they are. Yes, the precursors turned into this "dust", but I think it wasn't intended how we see the flood now, I think it was corrupted/mutated.

The dust thing was for them to survive until another chance arrived, but it went wrong.

[main rivet]

It's kind of a distinction without a difference.

At least until actual Precursors show up.

Same thing with humans and Forerunner.

Point of Light didn't really change the status quo, because humans and Forerunners sharing a common ancestor has been something that was around in some form or another since Halo 3.

[rain imp]

Well, I mean, running off with 2 Precursors on the Eden was a decent thing, I thought. 🙂 Start again somewhere far, far away...

[jade wave]

It really just confirmed it. They alluded to it but it was never very concrete but yeah

[slim thorn]

I do hope we can find more answer on Halo: Infinite, as there could be a chance where Primordial Prison might be featured for the Chief to explore it.

Considering Installation 07 once serves as a prison for Primordial

[fair hazel]

im hoping for as many connections as possible

[main rivet]

It will definitely be curious to see what shows up from what’s appeared in the books. Parts of the jaunt in Point of Light definitely felt like they were supposed to have more resonance if the book had come out after the game as originally intended.

[mellow kestrel]

Does anyone know if there’s anything (book, audio file, etc) that goes more into detail about what happened around high charity between the prophet of truth leaving and the elites arriving on earth in halo 3?

[gilded mason]

Shadow of Intent slightly goes into it

And some parts of Ghosts of Onyx might mention it?

[mellow kestrel]

Thanks! I’ll have a look, it just sounds such an interesting scenario with the flood trying to break out and the elites trying to hold them back

[violet notch]

Is blowing up a flood infested ship or station really a good idea? Aren't you just inviting the possibility of small surviving flood shrapnel being launched into space, potentially landing on some unknown world?

[main rivet]

Ghosts of Onyx and a little bit of Shadow of Intent and the short story "Wages of Sin" are mostly all you get.

[main rivet]

I don't think in space Flood biomass "shrapnel" is a really big issue. It's either going to hit inorganic matter (hulls), hit something where it'll burn up (planets and celestial bodies), or (most likely) nothing. While the Flood supercell apparently has super magic resistance, it's not indestructible, nor supremely dangerous at the single cell level.

The only way Flood material is going to land on some other world is deliberately, or if someone let a large enough chunk out of their site; but successfully getting through an atmosphere and also not obliterating everything on said projectile is tricky.

[violet notch]

You don't think that a chunk of a ship of sufficient size could successfully transmit a piece of flood material enough to survive a reentry?

I guess you're right that small bits of "shrapnel" wouldn't survive a thing.

But let's say a moderately sized piece of infected hull were to be hurtled into space. Wouldn't that be a risk?

[main rivet]

Again, space is big. The odds are it doesn't hit anything at all. But actually making it down to the ground in a viable state is tough.

If you're a tiny piece of whatever, you've got a greater chance of not burning up in the atmosphere because you slow down on atmospheric entry.

But there's a difference between that material making it through the atmosphere, and remaining viable.

[slim thorn]

But that makes me wonder on how did an infection form can infiltrate SoF while the ship stays airborne all the time.

[main rivet]

We don't really know how the containment portion of the shield world works; it might have snuck in there while its buddies were scoured off the surface.

Came back in some material.

In The Flood the Flood actually spring a trap in cargo containers, so presumably they could have done something similar.

[violet notch]

Also, the SoF was descending through layers of the planet. It's likely that some material was able to drop onto the ship from the layers above it.

In fact, that's kinda what it looks like is happening in game. The Flood is just dropping down from above.

[main rivet]

The Flood in Halo Wars is kind of a mess. Actually working on a video talking about it, because their presence there just doesn't make a lot of sense.

[violet notch]

Could be a contamination breach like on Installation 05?

Where the monitor failed in its duties.

[main rivet]

That's the popular theory, what with the multiplayer maps with containment locks, and the downed ships.

[violet notch]

We never meet a monitor either. So, maybe it was destroyed when it met its greatest failure.

[main rivet]

But it doesn't make much sense to keep Flood specimens on a shield world versus a Halo.

[violet notch]

IMO, it doesn't make much sense to keep Flood specimens within the galaxy anywhere.

They should have held the cure research on other facilities.

[main rivet]

Eh, the idea that they're extra-galactic and thus getting rid of the samples does nothing but remove a research opportunity makes some sense.

[violet notch]

Leave the Halos their one purpose, instead of risking contamination by doubleing-up their objectives. Kill and study.

[main rivet]

But not having the equivalent of a killswitch in case of release seems like an oversight the Forerunners would have learned about.

I wonder if we'll ever get the explanation for why 2401 Penitent Tangent almost immediately failed at his duties.

[violet notch]

He went rampant like 343 did. But 343 held it together better for longer.

The monitors have personalities.

Maybe 2401's disposition just lent him to be less than capable in that regard.

[main rivet]

Yeah, but if he went rampant he did so after like all of 200 years 😛

[violet notch]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

maybe he just did

343 started taking liberties of his own too

maybe 2401's little experiments were just riskier

[main rivet]

(We do see that the Etran Harborage's AI was aware enough to copy itself to survive, and the interior of the shell seemed pretty free of corruption until humans and Covenant showed up, so it doesn't seem like a case where the AI abandoned its duties.)

[violet notch]

Back to my earlier points though. Wouldn't it have been better to compartmentalize the tasks of the installations? Rather than have the Halo's purpose be both research and extermination. Leave the Halo the purposes and facilities geared towards extermination. And move the Flood research facilities and specimens to other installations instead. Preferable the insides of a shield world. Where the planet could initiate inner cleansings without risking the Flood getting offworld.

But putting the target of your weapons so close to the triggers of said weapons just leaves them in danger of being lost. As, of course, we well know now.

You also wouldn't have to rely on actually firing the Halo to deal with breakouts, because a different facility could be built with different methods. Killing a large swath of the galaxy for one local infestation seems rather extreme. One of the reasons that 343's recommendation to activate I04 just to deal with the local Flood is obviously an overreaction.

Perhaps, if it were a shield world instead. Then it could use its artificial star to destroy the outbreak. Loosen the restraints on it, and let the star heat up and expand a bit. Not enough to destroy the installation, but just enough to cook the inside surface and kill all infections on it. Like turning on an oven for a while to disinfect it.

[fair hazel]

no taking chances with the flood

[violet notch]

But they did. By keeping them on the Halos, instead of somewhere else more managable.

Or, here's another idea. Have different settings on the Halos, so that they can be dialed down if they need to. So that, like in Halo1, where the outbreak is only locally on the ring, and the surrounding galaxy was still uninfected. The fact that firing the Halo and killing them all anyway seems like it's a bit much. When instead the Halo could maybe fire just enough energy to cleans itself instead.

[fair hazel]

there's other flood research facilities

the forerunners underestimated the flood before

[violet notch]

True. Which makes me wonder, even more, why the Halos doubled as research facilities as well.

[pulsar pivot]

They just said hey why not

[hollow robin]

Here

[warped gust]

Zeta Halo's Architecture looking more Original trilogy makes sense until you remember that Zeta isn't originally part of the same array. does anyone have an explanation for this? I only say this going off the Fan theory that the 343 era Forerunner designs were of a different rate than the ones who built the second array

[craggy sierra]

Really the only stuff that looks similar from what we've seen is the beam towers

[violet notch]

I thought the difference in architecture was because of when the installation was built relative to the downfall of the Forerunner. During the height of their civilization, their constructs had tons of style and design. But towards the end, when it was clear the Forerunner were going to die off, things weren't as easily built. Resources were becoming more and more scarce. And form gave way to function. And the stark and spartan style is for efficiency's sake.

The Halos? Built at the end? Simple and stark, efficient and plain. Requiem? Built by Diadact at the height of his power? Has all the style and grace he could want to give it.

[jade wave]

Well the promethean constructs we see in Halo 4 and 5 were Warrior-Servant constructs and essences made by the Ur-Didact while the Halo rings were build by the Builder rate

[jade wave]

Master Builder Faber did not spare any expense in building the Halo Rings, they were perhaps the most lavish and expensive instruments built by the Builder rate that increased their power and prestige within the Ecumene

[craggy sierra]

They literally just put aztec ruins on i05 to look cool

[warped gust]

I thought that was to preserve them

[craggy sierra]

Preserve them from what? Halo installations are all artificially made. The forerunners built those there.

[warped gust]

to preserve the ruins

[craggy sierra]

Those ruins that they made because they looked cool

[warped gust]

I thought those were transplanted from somewhere else

[jade wave]

Do you mean by the forerunners or Bungie?

[craggy sierra]

By the forerunners

[jade wave]

They were most likely built by a species that was put their for preservation, probably humans

[warped gust]

I guess even modern day humans build stuff in rustic styles just cause, so i guess the Forerunners could do the same. but I like to think those are even more ancient than the rings and transplanted there for preservation

[craggy sierra]

You say preservation

I say they nicked em cause they looked cool

[gilded mason]

I think it was confirmed in the H2 mappack and H2A that it's ancient Forerunner ruins

[warped gust]

I knew I heard it from somewhere

as a kid I just really didn't like the look of those levels because I didn't think they made sense

[stable flower]

Same here. Cortana said the Forerunners built the structures to honor themselves.

[jade wave]

She said she was speculating

And there is no reference to what Ostral said on Halopedia, but it seems pretty likely

[humble yacht]

It’s not like they built them themselves, anyway

Sentinels probably did

Or constructors

[stable flower]

Or someone else entirely.

[humble yacht]

If they aren’t forerunner structures, sure

I’m just saying it’s not like the forerunners had time to be erecting temples in their own honor during the war

[stable flower]

I say that because there was a crashed unknown ship on I04 that was there way before POA arrived. Something tells me something similar happened on I05.

[gilded mason]

https://www.halopedia.org/Halo_2_Multiplayer_Map_Pack_Manual#Sanctuary

"More ancient than even the Halo itself, these crumbling structures may have been moved, brick by brick, from a Forerunner homeworld..."

And Sanctuary's Anniversary design uses the same stonework as the Anniversary map Warlord, which is also said to be a shrine for a Forerunner civil war.

[humble yacht]

Who the hell is running stones over from a planet to a halo while the flood is taking over the galaxy

Somebody had too much time on their hands

[gilded mason]

People can multitask! =)

Probably had some Manipular intern do all of the work

[humble yacht]

That’s like making sure your cake is perfectly frosted while your house burns down around you

[jade wave]

The general populace of the ecumene didn’t even have knowledge of the flood for awhile

[humble yacht]

The halos were made in response to the flood

They knew

[fair hazel]

Was the flood discussion started over a youtube video?

[stable flower]

That reminds me. I wonder if we're ever gonna find out who the mysterious crashed ship on I04 belongs to.

[unique rune]

Probably won’t ever

[craggy sierra]

Considering i04 is space dust now along with any remnants of that ship that may have even still been around, probably not

[carmine sleet]

I feel like people are way too fixated on us needing to know who was inside that ship when it was never important in the first place for us to know who

[craggy sierra]

I'm just struggling to comprehend the mechanics on how people would want this reveal to play out.

It's been many thousands of years since then

So you either write backwards from the ship to have whatever new species be another borderline omnicient/immortal race who can be like "yes we sent a ship to a ring 50,000 years ago."

Or chakas just comes in and is like "I remember when a ship of [SPECIES] crashed onto my ring"

Just go with the fact that we're probably never going to know and even if the species that crashed that ship is out there it's probably been long enough to the point where they have no recollection of it either and so would be unable to confirm anything.

[main rivet]

Yeah I don't think it's ever going to be explained, certainly not in a BIG REVEAL kind of way.

Best case scenario is it's something like Renegades explaining what the Forerunner crystal was; it's a minor detail hardcore fans will pick up on that will otherwise just go by unnoticed.

[cunning valley]

So, Im not really knowledgeable on the time between 3 and 4, so why are the Elites in Halo 4 trying to kill humanity again?

[unique rune]

Because different groups of Sangheili hold different beliefs

The Arbiter’s Swords of Sanghelios and Jul ‘Mdama’s Covenant remnant have different goals in mind

[cunning valley]

Ah, so it was a split group thing

[slim thorn]

The factions was practically shattered when the Covenant was dissolved following the end of the Human-Covenant War:
Major Faction after Human-Covenant War:
Jul 'Mdama's Covenant
Keepers of One Freedom
Banished

[gaunt smelt]

To whoever says the halo universe is weak:
Two words, the forerunners

[versed helm]

In canon does the assault rifle have better range and accuracy?

[gilded mason]

Yes

[versed helm]

Yeah. I was just daydreaming and realized the assault rifles we have now are Better than the halo assault rifle which takes place in the future…

[gaunt smelt]

Lol

[terse lava]

@gaunt smelt Covenant was pretty powerful too

[gaunt smelt]

Yea

[gaunt smelt]

Also in terms of ground forces, the unsc absolutely dominates

[terse lava]

Idk about that, the Covenant field hundreds on hundreds of Sangheili and Jiralhanae, each who can challenge a spartan

[gilded mason]

Nah, it was specified that only Spartans won most of the time.

[jade wave]

Regular UNSC ground forces just put up a better fight than the navy most of the time

[gilded mason]

Yup

[gaunt smelt]

Thats what i meant, sorry im not that proficient in my knowledge of the halo universe

[stable flower]

You mean ground forces?

[gaunt smelt]

Ye

[stable flower]

No I was talking to Vrolof

[jade wave]

yes

[gaunt smelt]

Ok

[versed helm]

That’s kinda sad to think if they never thought of Spartans humanity would’ve ended already

[jade wave]

Well I do wonder if Truth was going to betray the Sangheili or not regardless of Regret's death, but Spartans did play a pretty big role in that divide

[humble yacht]

He was

Regret’s death just accelerated the plan

[versed helm]

Do you really think humanity would’ve survived without Spartans tho?

[humble yacht]

No

[jade wave]

Perhaps not, but it was the Covenant civil war that essentially saved humanity

[versed helm]

We have to thank Halsey

[humble yacht]

They barely survived even with the Spartans

[versed helm]

Yeah…

I mean they only attacked mombasa, don’t they need a human to help activate the ring too?

[humble yacht]

Only the high prophets knew that

[lethal badge]

Hello

[undone plume]

the one thing ive wondered is what if halo 4 and 5 were just a dream

[humble yacht]

They aren’t

[stable flower]

Spartan-IIs were made to fight innies, and were only repurposed for fighting Covenant. Many died as easily as any normal human.

[shut dew]

I'm beginning to agree with @violet notch 's stance on the Banished's position in the current narrative.

[stable flower]

He explained it perfectly

[shut dew]

"In Halo Infinite's campaign, the Master Chief returns when humanity's fate hangs in the balance to confront the most ruthless foe he's ever faced – the Banished."
Keep in mind this is literally from the gameplay reveal from last year. There is nothing natural I can think the Banished could do in Halo Infinite to make them ruthless without being the most forced, contrived piece of garbage storytelling.

[stable flower]

^

[shut dew]

Halo Wars 2 didn't fare any better. All you had was an AI crying about how they'll kill everyone and everything, and Atriox whooping Red Team in the worst fight scene in the series' history

At least Locke v. Chief attempted to show how Chief and Locke weren't different at all, but the execution was meh

[jade wave]

Are you saying a brute chieftain is not superior to a Spartan-II?

[shut dew]

Where was the team cohesion? Strategy?

[stable flower]

Fans try to make them some unknown force from nowhere but I just see Covenant in red.

[humble yacht]

Brutes are physically stronger than Spartans but Spartans tend to be better trained and have more ingenuity

[shut dew]

All they did was run around like dweebs and get thrown around to boost "the stakes" and put Atriox on an inflated pedestal

Atriox should've been 100% dead in the fight regardless of strength

On Ridley's point of enemy types being the exact same names, I believe Halo should be using the proper species names going forward. They're not even that hard to pronounce and spell most of the time [And personal opinion, it would make the series appeal more to sci-fi fans who prefer "mature" worldbuilding, but that's just my subjective viewpoint 😛 ]

[terse lava]

From say, Thel's standpoint sure, but I don't think a human will give a wham bam on the actual name

[humble yacht]

They wouldn’t, lol

[terse lava]

Yeah, has not even been a decade since the war's end. Give them a couple generations

20-40 years down the line

[violet notch]

I used "familiar names" just to point out that, from an enemy design standpoint, we're not encountering anything particularly new. They're The exact same enemies we've been fighting since day 1. Granted they've added other factions like the prometheans and what not

I wasn't actually talking about the usage of their names, real or nicknames

[shut dew]

I know that.

[violet notch]

Gotcha

But yeah, it is quite obvious that from a narrative standpoint, the banished are really just supposed to be the covenant 2.0

When instead of doing that they could have just kept the covenant remnant that we fought in Halo 4

It wouldn't feel as forced that way

And we would have appreciated fighting them for who they were, since we are very familiar with them at this point. And have a lot of investment in their ongoing story

It's like if the Super Mario franchise tried to replace Bowser with some brand spanking new villain. And going forward that's who we will face from now on.And try to get us to care about him just as much as we used to care about Bowser. It's just forced, and doesn't feel natural.

As a side note, please forgive any misspellings or grammatical mistakes that I may have because I'm using speech to text on my phone

[shut dew]

I'd kill to see a grunt that isn't dead trying to surrender peacefully, or a Jackal that trails Chief and tries bribing him with a weapon variant you can't find anywhere else. More nuances to make the enemies much more diverse and full of life (Not saying that it would be common) and would work well in Infinite's open setting

[gilded mason]

That would be nice

[shut dew]

I was going to suggest having the Brutes be brutal with marines again, but... I don't get the same vibe with Infinite ones

Halo 3 is peak brute Aestetic and anatomy

[versed helm]

"I have some strange wares for you, demon!"

[stable flower]

Their hatred of humanity is forced. They have no religious motive like other remnant factions. They hate humanity just because.

[shut dew]

That but without calling him Demon, and you can kill him regardless but he'll start shooting back again if you try to

[shut dew]

"343 needed to make an objective evil Cove-eh em Banished faction because we need to repeat A New Halo to win back audiences and then we'll do something different in the sequel"

[versed helm]

I was simply referencing a vendor from Resident Evil 4.

[shut dew]

Oh, didn't get that reference 😅

[versed helm]

https://youtu.be/axZ-SZJhN60

[slim thorn]

If I can remember, the Red Team can't find Atriox since he was already there all the time, standing still inside the lab. Motion tracker will never detect any motionless object or people, which is why Atriox can ambush Red Team. It's just that the Red Team is not fully prepared to anticipate this kind of ambush considering they've been out of action for 28 years.

[unreal pawn]

Just got the first five Halo novels in the mail today, super excited to finally start on em

[terse lava]

They are good, you will have an enjoyable read

[pulsar pivot]

Which difficulty is the most lore accurate

[gilded mason]

None

[pulsar pivot]

Oh

So basically John is op or nearly dead 24/7

So how big is the radius of effect when a ring has been lit

[gilded mason]

25,000 light years

[pulsar pivot]

How big is the radius of the milky way?

[gilded mason]

52,850 light years

[pulsar pivot]

So the ark is if let's say most parts of the galaxy are infected

So let's fire all of them

And it wipes out the galaxy

[gilded mason]

Yes?

[jade wave]

Do you mean the diameter? Radius is only half the length of the galaxy

[pulsar pivot]

Yes

[jade wave]

Than it is about 100,000 ly across

[jade wave]

were u going to complete what you were talking about?