#lore-and-universe

1 messages · Page 474 of 1

steel stone
#

That ruined my appetite, thanks

humble yacht
#

While not relevant, it’s said that human tastes most similar to pork

#

So I doubt moa would be at all similar

steel stone
#

I thought it would taste like ham or maybe like chicken

#

The more you know

humble yacht
#

Since moa can be used for burgers, it’s closer to a red meat

#

Chicken and pork aren’t considered red meat

steel stone
#

Yeah I know that 🙂

#

Also....

#

About the multiverse thing... is the agruement about Halo connecting to other franchises?

humble yacht
#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

#

The original question was about whether Nicole was trapped in DOA or had made it back to the halo universe

#

The answer being that in halo, she never left

steel stone
#

What does it say about here? what is her Spartan number?

humble yacht
#

458

steel stone
#

That aint right

#

There less Spartan IIs if I remember

humble yacht
#

It’s a whole thing about class 2

steel stone
#

Class 2???

humble yacht
#

Read the halopedia article and follow the citations

steel stone
#

I know about Spartan Is IIs and IIIs and IVs

#

But class 2?

#

Ill read about that

humble yacht
#

Class 2 was a planned second batch of spartan IIs

#

Like how spartan 3s had alpha and beta and gamma companies

steel stone
#

Class 2 are not that nice I read

#

They are "flawed" and were hostile so much, why???

#

And says there are 28 left??? so her number does not determined how many there were?

rose delta
#

Nah, numbers were chosen the moment they were candidates.

humble yacht
#

Where are you getting that info?

steel stone
#

Halo fandom

rose delta
#

Like when Halsey did her recon of John in the first book, he was already 117.

humble yacht
#

Fandom wikis don’t use official sources

#

That’s why it’s called Fandom

steel stone
#

Thats dumb why make it up?

humble yacht
#

Because fans like to make stuff up

steel stone
#

And its like a legit page too with so much detail

humble yacht
#

Most fans make stuff up in their heads and just imagine it, but some like to write down their imaginings

steel stone
#

I have nothing wrong with that but a whole wiki page, what the...

humble yacht
#

Use halopedia, they cite their sources

steel stone
#

Yeah im gonna check there

#

So what I got is that Halsey wanted to work on Spartan IIs again with class 2 but they didnt meet her standard

#

And ended up leaving it...

#

I wanna know something

#

So Saprtan numbers are telling us how many spartns there are right? thats what I know

#

Examples are S112 S117 S113

rose delta
#

I'm pretty sure it's just for the candidate codes.

#

You could have 450-something candidates, but only 300 Spartans and so on.

#

And they'd keep their candidate codes as identifiers.

steel stone
#

So Im right???

rose delta
#

The question is, are you saying the numbers show how many TRUE Spartans there are, or how many Spartans were CONSIDERED for the program? 'Cause I'm thinking the latter.

humble yacht
#

Spartan numbers are not a reflection of how many Spartans there are

steel stone
#

I always thought that

humble yacht
#

There aren’t even 117 spartan 2s

steel stone
#

Your blowing my mind right now.

humble yacht
#

The numbers refer to either when they were conscripted/kidnapped or when they were identified as candidates

steel stone
#

1337 Is now canon

rose delta
#

God, I wish.

humble yacht
#

Which is why some Spartans didn’t make it through training/augmentation

#

1337 is not canon

steel stone
#

Thats new to me, been playing for years everyone talked to me about spartan numbers shows how many there are.

rose delta
#

The Spartan-II Program only had 150 viable candidates, of which only 75 were conscripted, if I'm getting that right.

#

For Class 1, that is.

humble yacht
#

Sounds about right

steel stone
#

conscripted? meaning thats how many survived the augmentations?

humble yacht
#

Conscripted means inducted into training

rose delta
#

Or, with less nice words, kidnapped.

humble yacht
#

Training happened before augmentations. And then more training after

rose delta
#

I think only 45 came through the augmentations as fully functioning.

steel stone
#

45 survived then???

rose delta
#

Nah, some of the survived.

#

Some got moved over to ONI, non-combat roles.

humble yacht
#

Like Musa

steel stone
#

I mean before fighting the covies we had just 45

rose delta
#

I think SOME of them had a chance of rehabilitation.

humble yacht
#

And serin Osman

rose delta
#

Good ol' Serin.

humble yacht
#

Red team got rehabilitated and successfully were augmented after a second attempt

steel stone
#

Thats not many Spartans thats really sad

rose delta
#

Well, it at least beats the death rate of the Spartan-IIIs.

steel stone
#

So now was nicole 458 one of the Spartan IIs in Class 1?

rose delta
#

Nicole was Class 2.

steel stone
#

A newly made Spartan then?

rose delta
#

Would make sense since the Candidacy list of Class 1 only went up to 150.

#

Class 2 doesn't have much info at all, but more or less.

#

From what I can see, even its existence is kinda quasi-canon.

steel stone
#

Yeah I could not find much at all

humble yacht
#

Class 2 pretty much exists as a sort of fall back so new spartan 2s can be made canon if necessary

rose delta
#

They might make books or comics about them later, but I somewhat doubt it. I'm not sure how much story material potential they'd have anymore.

humble yacht
#

Since class 1 is so well documented, there is little room to introduce a new spartan II from class 1

steel stone
#

458 I think Is canon but what we know all info right now is just non canon stuff.

#

Im reading and its just all non canon

rose delta
#

Do we have any Spartans we're still missing from Class 1, or have they all been revealed in one way or another?

humble yacht
#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

#

Sounds like a question for halopedia

steel stone
#

Since we know she is not canon now, the multiverse thing isnt holding up well.....

humble yacht
#

There is a Nicole-458 in halo, we don’t know what she’s doing but she never went to another universe

#

The “real” Nicole could show up in a later story or could be confirmed dead

steel stone
#

We know she isnt in another universe but she could be doing what Spartans do

humble yacht
#

Maybe. It’s more likely that she’ll remain in a a state of uncertainty and never be addressed again

rose delta
#

Class 1 seems to have a list of 45 Spartan-IIs on top of the washouts. So yeah, I'm guessing no Class 2 material coming out. Would've been more likely had there been some unrevealed Spartans.

humble yacht
#

Class 2 serves that role of being a source for unrevealed Spartans

#

If they want to make new spartan 2s, they could make them come from class 2 to avoid creating canonical inconsistencies

steel stone
#

I think class 2 is sorta pointless now

#

Dont have gen3 now?

humble yacht
#

Two different things

#

Gen3 refers to armor

steel stone
#

Oh

humble yacht
#

Class 2 refers to actual Spartans

steel stone
#

Actual Spartans that were argumented?

#

I think all of them have some sort of super enhancement

humble yacht
#

Yes

#

I know all the terminology can get confusing but gen1, GEN2, and GEN3 refer to generations of armor

#

Any spartan can wear any armor

#

The different Spartans were Spartan IIs, IIIs, and IVs

#

And each of those can have subdivisions, like class 1 and class 2

steel stone
#

From what I know

#

Spartan I is Johnson

humble yacht
#

Spartan Is is Project ORION

#

There were retroactively refined Spartan Is

#

But they aren’t nearly as augmented as other Spartans

steel stone
#

Spartan IIs are bigger and punch like a speeding train on crack, also have the highest intelligence as well

#

Spartan IIIs are expendable soliders but look the coolest, fight me

humble yacht
#

A common misconception

steel stone
#

Spartan IVs are not argemented as much and have a mouth too. They are strong too

#

Thats what I got from the games

humble yacht
#

The only reason spartan 3s were considered expendable was because it was cheaper to outfit a spartan 3 and they could make more of them due to safer augmentation procedures

steel stone
#

They made the Spi armor to be stealthy and costed less, thats what the IIIs used. See I know some stuff 🙂

humble yacht
#

Yes. That doesn’t mean the spartan 3s were significantly weaker than the 2s

#

It’s just that they had worse armor

steel stone
#

From what I know they relied on tech more

#

Spartans IIIs can wear the Spartan armor too

humble yacht
#

Every spartan relies on tech

#

That’s how Halsey originally designed the spartan 2s

rose delta
#

I think the Spartan IIIs main advantage was their level of training. Kurt pretty much pushed them much further when it comes to thinking outside the box.

humble yacht
#

The whole point of the augmentations was to make them able to use MJOLNIR armor without killing themselves

#

Yes, spartan 3s were trained harder than the 2s

#

Partially because Ackerman wanted to one-up Halsey

steel stone
#

Darn and still so many died

rose delta
#

Well, they were designed to be disposable.

#

Pretty much sent on suicide missions exclusively.

steel stone
#

Headhunter Missions, recently watched the one with the two guys, one red and green

humble yacht
#

They were “disposable” because of the relative cheapness it cost to make them compared to spartan 2s

steel stone
#

That was hype

rose delta
#

Ooh, I haven't checked that out yet. Is it a mini-series or just a film?

humble yacht
#

Remember that each suit of MJOLNIR armor cost the same as a space ship

#

Spartan 2s weren’t cheap

steel stone
#

Its just short episodes but explains Spartan IIIs and man it good

#

The IIIs missions were on legendary difficulty with the black eye skull on.

#

Meaning that their missions were harder

#

Less powerful armor and ultimate difficulty, wish so many didnt need to die off like that

humble yacht
#

It’s not only the difficulty of the missions but also the importance

#

The spartan 3s were sent on missions that normal soldiers couldn’t do

steel stone
#

I know about that, know any there were shown to us?

humble yacht
#

Because the missions were that dangerous. But thanks to the spartan 3s, those missions got done, allowing humanity to keep surviving

rose delta
#

There was the trailer for Halo: Reach which shows the previous Noble 6 blowing up a capital ship to save a city, if I recall correctly.

#

Along with himself, of course.

steel stone
#

All of that with a terrible functioning active cam that came with the armor

#

That was not noble 6

rustic nimbus
steel stone
#

That was thome i think his name is

#

Its dumb they gave him noble 6s armor

#

He was suppose to look like this

rose delta
#

Thom-A293.

rose delta
steel stone
humble yacht
#

Thom was the original noble 6

rustic nimbus
#

idk if i can link it but if i can i will

steel stone
#

He was suppose to look like that

humble yacht
#

Noble 6 is just a call sign when you’re part of noble team

rustic nimbus
#

Yeah

#

Is b312 the second or third noble six

steel stone
#

Since Spartan are so detailed for no reason in reach they has to simplify I guess and used Noble 6s armor

rustic nimbus
#

Idk if thom was the first or not

rose delta
#

Second.

#

I'm pretty sure there was only the two.

steel stone
#

Noble 6 replaced him

rustic nimbus
#

Yeah ik, i just didn't know if thom was the og noble six

steel stone
#

Same I thought he was noble six since they had the same look in the trailer

rose delta
#

Yeah, I suppose they could've made some differences.

humble yacht
#

Spartan b312’s canonical armor configuration is default mark v b

#

Thom used Mark v b with some attachments

steel stone
#

Actually he is suppose to look like this

#

He had different looking armor in his concept

rose delta
#

That looks like a mish-mash of like 3 different Spartans. XD

steel stone
#

Reach is so detailed its not even normal

#

Noble 6, I dont even know what he or she even is

#

I just call noble 6 the player

rustic nimbus
#

Spartan b312 is a spartan 3 who served on noble team

#

during the fall of reach

#

I think lorewise he is a guy but in the game you can choose

rose delta
#

I think lorewise it's been kept nebulous so it's canon no matter what gender you pick.

rustic nimbus
#

oh

#

idk

#

i guess it depends

humble yacht
#

Lore wise he’s male

steel stone
#

Noble 6 is like the connection we have with us as a player and the lore

rose delta
#

Oh yeah, I just checked Halopedia. On the Fandom site they were still undecided.

humble yacht
#

Why do people not realize fandoms are fan made 😩

stable flower
#

Instead of his or her, or he or she, they say "the SPARTAN"

steel stone
#

Gender, personality all that jazz is all up to the player

rose delta
#

I know that much, I just like flavour text so I jump back and forth.

steel stone
#

Because fanon goes deep in with detail that is beliveable

humble yacht
#

For gameplay purposes you can choose noble’s gender, but canonically he’s male. I think I’m new blood or one of the other novels with Jun, he remembers noble 6 and refers to “him”

rustic nimbus
#

Halopedia isn't a fandom is it?

humble yacht
#

Halopedia is community made but unlike fandoms, it cites official sources

rustic nimbus
#

Oh okay

steel stone
#

Yeah

rose delta
#

Oh yeah, Jun straight up says "Noble Six was a good man."

rustic nimbus
#

so it's more reliable

humble yacht
#

Now it’s true that some crazy person can go in and edit halopedia to make it wrong, but the halopedia admins do their best to not let that happen

rustic nimbus
#

yeah

steel stone
#

I should check new blood, heard a certain somebody died im not thrilled about much

rustic nimbus
#

it isn't suppoed to be good

rustic nimbus
rose delta
#

I'm doing my re-read of all the novels, so I'm almost up to that point again.

rustic nimbus
#

At least from what I heard it isn't supposed to be great

#

but idk

#

I haven't actually read the full book so i will not judge

steel stone
#

Escalations I absolutely could not stand any of it.

#

I really tried...

humble yacht
#

It’s not supposed to be a fun moment

#

Doesn’t mean it’s bad writing

rose delta
#

I remember it being more solemn and character-piece type of book.

rustic nimbus
#

yeah

rose delta
#

I mean, can we at least agree that Halo: The Flood was the worst one, except for the actually new parts that were written in?

steel stone
#

I remember Palmer driving a warthog and her teamates into danger. Kat was spirit seems to have possessed her.

humble yacht
#

I’m not a huge fan of novelizations of existing media

steel stone
#

Elite were already joke but man Im sorry I could not watch the elites get treated that badly.

#

And they copy pasted the Spartan Ops story parts.

rose delta
#

I'm not against it, but by god it was awful. "And then the Master Chief fired his gun towards that way, threw a grenade, shot another enemy, then leapt over cover, shooting another enemy". Which then repeats for like half a page at a time.

steel stone
#

And they kept getting the Elite colours wrong

humble yacht
#

That novel was written by an ex marine

steel stone
#

I can't be that mad honestly, Reach Elite ranks just confused me alot.

humble yacht
#

Who tried to put in their experience in the military into chief’s personality. But it different from what we got in the Fall of Reach novel as well as the game

#

So it was an odd book, too be sure

rose delta
#

I wonder if there's ever going to be another Sangheili Imperial Admiral. I love Xytan 'Jar Wattinree's armor design.

steel stone
#

When I heard of this guy I lost my mind

#

He cant be dead, need him to come back

humble yacht
#

He ded

rustic nimbus
#

honestly he wasn't very vital to the story though

#

like they probably just didn't want to change the way he is seen and so they just killed him

#

it makes sense

#

but it kinda sucks

gilded mason
#

He's a pretty random guy that didn't amount to much

rustic nimbus
#

Yeah

#

Like he would make a cool spartan but they would have to change him

steel stone
#

Bruh he was so great elites treated him higher than the 3 prophets.

#

And he was huge too

gilded mason
#

"Hey, here's some supposedly cool dude that everyone loses their minds over! And now he is dead. What an important guy, huh."

rustic nimbus
#

Yeah they couldn't really go anywhere with his character

#

even though everyone loved him with this type of character you can't go far without changing him

#

like doomguy to doom slayer

steel stone
#

Because it was a waste, imagine this guy maybe as a boss

#

And had forerunner looking armor which Ive waiting for elites to have.

rustic nimbus
#

Who are you talking about

#

I am getting a little mixed up

steel stone
#

That Elite commander Xytan 'Jar Wattinree's

rustic nimbus
#

oh

#

ok

steel stone
#

He was too cool

gilded mason
#

I just found him boring.

steel stone
#

I think he was awesome

humble yacht
#

People like him because he looked cool. But ultimately he wasn’t that important

steel stone
#

He looked cool but he had something no other elite had

rose delta
#

I guess he would've been much too powerful of a character in the Great Schism. Also having him present after that on Sanghelios would've probably quelled too much of the civil wars.

rustic nimbus
steel stone
#

He had power and many had him regarded him higher than the prophets

gilded mason
#

Why though

#

What made him that special

steel stone
#

Ill link you the video, its a good listen

humble yacht
#

He was just a big boi with an impressive military career

rustic nimbus
#

lmao

#

kinda true though

rose delta
#

Well, he attained a military rank that was exclusive to him, effectively controlling most of the Covenant fighting force.

gilded mason
#

Most?

humble yacht
#

It’s not like he added to their religion

rose delta
#

Well, the Prophets still would have their own influence.

steel stone
humble yacht
#

See

#

You have to be carful when listening to content creators

gilded mason
#

That title gave me a hernia

humble yacht
#

They introduce a lot of their own bias and opinions into the content

#

Obviously Xperia would like this character, he’s a huge elite fan

steel stone
#

They are not too bad to listen to, just watch

humble yacht
#

No thanks

#

I don’t want to give him the views

steel stone
#

Please

rose delta
#

But having a Sangheili of that level of power would act as a counter-balance to the Prophets. Had he been around to take charge throughout the entirety of the Great Schism, he might have been able to unify Sanghelios without much issue.

humble yacht
#

I already read about xytan on halopedia

steel stone
#

Yeah that what made him interesting to me

gilded mason
#

Feels kinda weird

rose delta
#

Reverence of battle-prowess is kinda the Sangheili way, though.

#

You got the biggest rank and you win the most fights? Why not be the leader of the people?

humble yacht
#

Yea and what happened to him? He got sent away

#

Let’s you know who actually held power

gilded mason
#

If he wanted to go on a rampage across the galaxy, would they all still go along with him?

rustic nimbus
#

yeah they would consider him a heretic

rose delta
#

Only if he could convince them with a proper cause, say, the Great Schism.

steel stone
#

The prophets exiled him if I remember thats what got him killed i think

humble yacht
#

Also Xtyan wasn’t super honorable

#

He tried to get rid of an elite who he feared could usurp his authority

steel stone
#

What comic was that Xtyan from?

gilded mason
#

He was just a part of Ghosts of Onyx

steel stone
#

Ah ok

gilded mason
#

He appeared nowhere else except as a leader in the Fleet Battles game (Or was it Ground Command)

steel stone
#

Id like to see an Elite like that in that in the games still.

gilded mason
#

Thel has since expanded his influence to that level

steel stone
#

Oh yeah

humble yacht
#

If xytan had stuck around he probably would have joined jul

rose delta
#

I wish they would've done a bit more about Jul M'dama in Halo 5. His death was way too unceremonious and quick, considering how much character he has in the books.

steel stone
#

Arbiter rocking that cool redesign too

gilded mason
#

Though hopefully with less of a creepy cult of personality aspect to him

gilded mason
steel stone
#

Jul got rekt harder than the ones you easily kill in the games

humble yacht
#

Was he wasted? Maybe. But he got what he deserved

steel stone
#

Halo 4 and 5 Elites are so easy to kill.

rose delta
#

I suppose he did get some decent screen time in Spartan Ops.

humble yacht
#

Jul lied to his people worse than the prophets did

#

Because at least the prophets believed their own bs

steel stone
#

Jul was a chill Elite actually from what I remember his wife died and son and wanted revenge.

rose delta
#

Not entirely true, actually. There was the whole thing with the Prophets actually finding out the truth of humanity being Reclaimers in Harvest.

humble yacht
#

They still believed in the great journey

steel stone
#

In game, that guy you no-scopped headshotted

gilded mason
#

He just didn't have any power to do anything

humble yacht
#

The prophets lied about the humans’ connection to the forerunners

#

Jul lied about the entire religion

steel stone
#

Jul I think could of been handled better

humble yacht
#

He actually let his elites continue thinking that forerunners were gods when he knew they weren’t

rose delta
#

Well, blasphemy is blasphemy. If they know for a fact that humans are the rightful reclaimers and still continue to kill them, they're effectively fighting against their own faith in a way.

steel stone
#

Thats the great journey

#

man, they are feeling the effects of Halo 3 haunt them

#

The Storm was so weak after the prphets died off

humble yacht
#

Truth was still alive during that level

gilded mason
#

Eh, Jul's Covenant was actually pretty strong from what I remember

steel stone
#

I mean the Storm Covenant

#

Thats their name right?

humble yacht
#

Storm is an elite type

steel stone
#

Juls faction

gilded mason
humble yacht
#

Jul’s faction was just Jul’s Covenant

gilded mason
#

Just what fans call them sometimes

humble yacht
#

Some fans misconstrue Storm Elites with the whole faction

gilded mason
#

Call 'em JayCee

steel stone
#

I thought Juls faction was called the Storm Covenant.

humble yacht
#

I know

gilded mason
#

Nope, not by 343

humble yacht
#

Now you know

rose delta
#

"Hm, what should I name my covenant...? Wait a second! Covenant... Me... Ah-ha! Jul's Covenant! I'm a genius!"

steel stone
#

Sounds even lamer...

humble yacht
#

He found a whole planet of elites still loyal to the covenant

#

Why bother changing the name?

steel stone
#

I dunno maybe I was expecting more...

humble yacht
#

This is why you don’t lead a faction of religious zealots

steel stone
#

Zealots are not even Zealot anymore

#

What is this?!

#

Thanks fro answering so many of my questions, may host some maps later on today on H5.

simple light
#

This channel within this server is the most entertaining to say the least

#

Y’all go crazy in here 🤣

steep ether
#

yea

stable flower
#

Why do people like the Banished?

humble yacht
#

They’re meh to me

terse lava
#

Nothing particularly special about the Banished. Just atheist Covenant

violet notch
#

I always thought they were a little shoehorned in. Like they realized they still needed the Covenant to fulfill their narrative role. But the Covenant isn't nearly what it used to be. So let's come up with a brand new hitherto unknown Covenant faction. That is like the Covenant, but better/worse. And drop some BS lines like, "they almost got us, but they never got them." To artificially inflate their reputation as bigger baddies, which never will feel natural, but we're desperate.

#

It just reeks of jumping the shark. Coming out of the blue with a new faction, telling us they're even worse than the Covenant we've spent years getting familiar with. And expect us to embrace it? Sorry, but I can't take the Banished seriously at all.

jade wave
#

I definitely think they were over exaggerated too much

violet notch
#

It's just so obvious a desperate attempt to reapply the Covenant to the narrative again after realizing they needed it back.

jade wave
#

They tried to push it so hard

#

I would have liked them more if they weren’t so serious about it

#

They make it seem edgy or somethin like that

violet notch
#

At least Jul M'Dama's faction still felt like the recognizable traditional Covenant. It actually felt like you were still fighting the remnants of the Covenant that were still trying to hold onto their old glory days.

jade wave
#

I don’t see the banished as covenant or the new covenant

#

The comparisons do not make sense

violet notch
#

But no, let's kill them off in the first effing level of Halo 5 in a vain attempt to play up Lock.

violet notch
terse lava
#

Yep, because the Cove- I mean Banished don't do thr exactly same things the Covenant did.

jade wave
#

Such as?

terse lava
#

Was sarcasm

jade wave
#

I’m asking what they do that is so similar to the covenant

terse lava
#

Kill/hate humans? Want to get a halo ring? Check, have a cult of personality surrounding their leader? Check

violet notch
#

It's not about what they do specifically. It's about their position in the narrative. Amongst the greater cosmic struggle for Forerunner artifacts and technologies. Against a foe that's just so difficult to fight that conventional warfare doesn't work. There's the aliens who are the ones standing in your way. The ones who are fightable with conventional warfare.

#

Their name is different. He'll even their methods may be different. But their role in the games remains the exact same.

Even many of the enemy types are literally the same. Brutes, Elites, Jackals, Grunts, etc, etc.

#

It's quite obvious that all they're supposed to be is The Covenant 2.0.

#

But I still though Jul's Covenant was better. Because it wasn't someone else wearing the Covenant mantle with a new coat of paint. It was legitimately the last remnants of the same Covenant we have always been fighting.

#

Basically I'm saying I wish they hadn't squandered Jul's faction so carelessly in Halo 5.

jade wave
violet notch
#

Because the Banished just seem so fake and artificially placed by comparison.

jade wave
violet notch
#

Once again. It's not about the specifics like their cultures or motives.

#

It's about the role they're filling in the greater narrative.

#

Which is to say exactly the same role the Covenant had filled up until now.

jade wave
#

Any faction they would have put in would be the same thing

violet notch
#

That's kinda my point though. They shouldn't have whipped up this new faction like they did. They should have just kept the remnants of the old Covenant instead. There was nothing wrong with Jul's faction in Halo 4. Why did they feel the need to be rid of it?

#

If the role is the same, keep the players the same.

#

Don't change them out and expect me to feel the same about them.

#

And don't over exaggerate their capabilities with such hollowness as a few campy lines in a spinoff title.

jade wave
#

I don’t disagree with them being rushed and exaggerated

carmine sleet
#

The Banished was formed by former Covenant members who grew disillusioned with the Covenant during the Human-Covenant War. Plus, we were given a whole game focused on fighting them already, allowing them to be set up for future content which features them

violet notch
#

But it just felt so forced.

#

And doesn't change the obvious.

terse lava
#

Yet they do the same crap as the Covenant. The Rise of Atriox comics appeared to bring something new to the table at least.

gilded mason
violet notch
#

That they were nothing more than a Covenant 2.0 to replace the old Covenant we've grown fond of for years.

violet notch
terse lava
#

Reminds me.of an old question now. If Halo can exist without the Covenant

violet notch
#

The answer is apparently no.

#

Because they'll just come up with someone else who basically is the Covenant under another name.

jade wave
#

But they are not “basically the Covenant”, they are completely different. Just because they take similar actions does not make them the same

vocal aspen
#

Yeah I’ve wondered the same as well. They just remix the covenant every time.

jade wave
#

I fail to see how they are the remixed covenant

vocal aspen
#

I never said they are the covenant

#

No one did

violet notch
#

Their differences are superficial. And you're missing my point. They aren't the Covenant. But it's obvious they were invented just to fill the empty shoes of the Covenant.

jade wave
#

Their differences are not superficial. What drives them is not superficial it is what makes up their core personality

violet notch
#

The thing that makes them "basically the Covenant" are all the similarities that are more important than their background lore. And that's the role they're playing in the narrative.

#

Forget their origin story. Forget their new coat of paint.

#

What are they?

#

A conglomerate faction of many alien races including but not limited to, Grunts, Jackals, Elites, Brutes, etc. All familiar faces.

Who are standing as the main obstacles between Chief and his struggle against an abstract foe, in the environment and setting of abandoned Forerunner technology.

#

Basically take Halo CE.
Replace the Flood with the AIs.
Replace the Covenant with the Banished.
And BAM! Halo Infinite.

But at least Cortana's faction is vastly different, not just in role and appearances, but in their tangible presence, or lack thereof. At least you could still shoot the Flood. But AIs and holograms aren't the same as space zombies.

But the Banished are the other hand. If they had never been invented. And instead we were fighting Jul's faction. Would there really have been anything different? No.

#

Other than the vehicles would be painted purple instead of red.

jade wave
#

I think we look at this too differently. I see what you are saying but you are boiling it down to essentially, for me, as: “alien enemy used to be this, new one is just the alien enemy with a different name”. I do not see it as this, I am looking at the actual factions not what their role is as the enemy and how it is the same as the previous enemy

humble yacht
#

You don’t really care about why an alien is trying to kill you in the moment you’re killing them

#

One elite could be screaming “for the prophets”, another “for atriox”, they’re still both hostile elites who hate you

#

I do think it’s pretty underwhelming that atriox’s purpose for going to the ark boiled down to wanting a halo. Not very creative

jade wave
#

What other reason is there to go to the ark of not for the halos?

humble yacht
#

Something more creative or interesting. Maybe looking for the catalog of genetic samples the forerunners left behind, maybe looking for some unnamed macguffin that could serve them

#

But a halo? It’s dumb because Atriox couldn’t use it without hurting himself

jade wave
#

True

#

I’d like to think of halos as what we think of nukes

#

Effective deterrents

humble yacht
#

That’s what makes it so silly

#

It’s stupid pointing a gun at the head of the universe while you’re still in the universe

#

At least with nukes, if you fire one at a nonnuclear country, they aren’t firing any back. But even if you fire a nuke at a nuclear country, you aren’t blowing yourselves up, you’re blowing each other up.

rose delta
#

The Halos can work on a smaller scale as well, such as when The Master Builder used it on Charum Hakkor. Not that the Brutes would really know how to do that, though.

jade wave
#

I think it makes sense for atriox to want the halo rings, he probably just wants to make sure no one else just has access to it while simultaneously elevating his power

rose delta
#

Ehhh, I kind of agree with Chimera about that, though. It's kind of like sitting on a barrel of gunpowder so that others can't. It doesn't really have a practical benefit if using it in the first place blows you us as well.

humble yacht
jade wave
#

I believe so

humble yacht
#

That’s different

rose delta
#

How so?

humble yacht
#

I07 was part of the old array at that time

#

It fired like a beam or a cone

#

Not an omnidirectional pulse

rose delta
#

Do we know that the others aren't capable of doing the same?

humble yacht
#

If the halos still fired like that, then they’d make more sense as a weapon to be used to control and subjugate

#

Yes, the current array fires omnidirectional

jade wave
humble yacht
#

The new halos were purposefully designed that way

#

Besides, any knowledge of how the old array fired would have been lost. All anyone knows is that the halos fire pulses

simple light
carmine sleet
#

Didn't need to tag me

simple light
#

I didn’t

#

I replied

#

Different mechanics, no need to be a halo 2 Jackalsniper

carmine sleet
#

The yellow tint and the @ symbol means it tagged

unknown.png
simple light
#

Since there’s a rule on language in here

#

I replied, and was agreeing with you. Jesus go get a coffee

#

@jade wave idk man I’m with you

#

I personally see the Banished as a cool new threat, that isn’t made of **** hard light tbh.

jade wave
#

I think we just looked at it completely differently

#

I could see what he was saying

simple light
#

I see what he is also

#

But ultimately, it’s a moot complaint to my eyes

#

This filter is killing me. There’s always going to be some evil ***** aliens

jade wave
#

Very true

simple light
#

It’s like crying because the taliban got replaced by isis lol

#

For lack of a better comparison

jade wave
#

I don’t think even that is a good comparison

simple light
#

Very weak

#

But in real world terms I can’t find another one

jade wave
#

True

simple light
#

There’s always going to be someone bigger and more evil I guess what I’m tryna say

rose delta
#

Pepsi-Max replaced by regular Pepsi?

jade wave
#

I don’t think the isis and taliban comparison is good since they both share the same religion, tactics and motives

simple light
#

First of all, if it doesn’t say Coca Cola ina. Red can or Pepsi in a blue can

#

Idk nothing about it

#

💀

jade wave
#

💀

simple light
#

Hmm, Greek and Roman Empire maybe?

rose delta
#

I suppose I can understand some people's gripes about it from a storytelling perspective, though. When you've dealt with the Covenant as a whole for so many games, then Jul's splinter group - which had a pretty good setting with the character development and motivations he had in the books - getting rid of said group and replacing it with alien pirates seems like a weaker downgrade, whereas you could've just kept Jul's group.

simple light
#

Shoot idk, ultimately I think the banished weren’t just thrown in “randomly” to replace the covvies is my bottom line lol

jade wave
#

I could see that, but then again the romans took a lot from their mythology along other things

jade wave
simple light
#

@jade wave yeah I’m struggling to draw it together rn, I’m at work and not nearly medicated enough 🌲 🤣

gilded mason
simple light
#

Did you not play halo wars 2? @gilded mason

jade wave
#

Understandable

simple light
#

It’s a canonical story, so...

#

The entire game is the banished

gilded mason
simple light
#

If we’re gonna talk about factions being randomly introduced and us not liking it, let’s discuss the hard light Mfs on halo 4

rose delta
#

Do you know if there are any good summary videos on the Halo Wars games? I'm interested in the stories, but I'm not a fan of RTS games.

simple light
#

@rose delta I’m sure there is, I know for a fact there are Halo Wars dedicated streamers and you tubers at least

versed helm
#

You could read through their Halopedia articles.

simple light
#

The cutscenes and story’s in the first and second HW were actually one of my top 5 games in the universe

#

Yeah you could do that also

#

If you haven’t found Installation00 on YouTube, you’re missing out. HiddenExperia is another good one @rose delta

rose delta
simple light
#

Installation00 is a legend. He’s crowdfunding a fully functional MJOLNIR right now lol. Estimated cost of about 149k pounds, not sure what that is dollars.

#

He’s an engineer if I remember right

versed helm
#

I doubt that he will succeed with his efforts.

gilded mason
#

What I remember most about I00 is him thinking that Halsey has the Librarian's geas and just straight up quoting Halopedia articles for some videos.

simple light
#

That’s helpful, I’m sure he will take that into account

#

Some of you really need another cup of coffee Jesus

versed helm
#

It is an incredibly difficult task and I am quite the pessimist.

simple light
jade wave
#

I think that he is good at displaying halopedia articles in a video format

simple light
#

I’m genuinely curious if it is, because if halopedia is our fan site for info, why not

rose delta
#

Does he have an engineering background or does he plan on having someone else make the MJOLNIR?

simple light
#

From what I remember from the video, he’s an engineer himself and he’s building it

jade wave
simple light
#

There’s been 2 updates out so far on his channel

rose delta
#

Well, I'd say that warrants some confidence in the project.

simple light
gilded mason
#

And it just seems lazy.

simple light
#

I don’t have the time to read like that, so most of the time I listen to the videos while I’m working

jade wave
#

I think the main grip would be that they just have no original content

simple light
#

That’s fair

jade wave
#

But I do think 00 offers a nice alternative from just going though halopedia and reading

versed helm
#

He is benefitting from reading someone else's work aloud.

#

Hidden Xperia has done this on multiple occasions too.

rose delta
#

I mean, you could technically say that if he mentioned anything about the books, too.

simple light
#

That’s assuming he’s ripping them word for word, which if you know he is, I’m not arguing because I don’t know

#

Agreed

#

It’s called research, as long as he isn’t ripping things verbatim. That’s how I view it

gilded mason
#

That’s assuming he’s ripping them word for word
Yes.

simple light
#

Okay

#

Then I’ll consider him the audio comic of halopedia, thank you lol

versed helm
rose delta
#

Alright, fair 'nuff.

simple light
#

I would like to request evidence at this point tbh

versed helm
#

Hidden Xperia even read one of the grammatical errors aloud too.

simple light
#

Ima need which videos so I can compare to the article, and then I’ll find new content creators to watch. But nobody else has given names so lol

rose delta
#

I really wish I was able to listen to audio books while working, but I genuinely can't read and listen at the same time. I just fail at two things at the same time.

simple light
versed helm
#

These are articles that are constantly being updated.

gilded mason
simple light
#

Is someone going to provide better content creators or are we just going to poop on the two guys I like

#

Thank you lol

#

I’ll check him out

jade wave
versed helm
#

I was not directly undermining nor insulting those content creators.

#

I simply stated what they have done.

simple light
versed helm
#

You are twisting my words.

simple light
#

It’s more or less what you’re saying lol

rose delta
#

What! Free thinking? Inconceivable!

simple light
#

He’s lazy, he rips off articles, etc

pulsar pivot
#

Whaaaa

simple light
#

@rose delta YouTube has a lot of videos that have the cutscenes tied together into like a 45 minute movie, there’s even some that rip scenes from all the games and throw it all together how it fits. It’s cool to see some of the community’s work with limited screen time content

pulsar pivot
#

I used Xperia for lore

simple light
#

To answer your original question about the HW and HW2

rose delta
#

@gilded mason Oh yeah, Halo Canon is actually pretty great. I just noticed that had watched the "All Covenant ranks" video from him a long while ago, good stuff!

simple light
#

The crews from that game are actually some of my favorite characters

#

Spirit of Fire go brrrr

rose delta
#

You know, I hopped over here on Discord because I was getting back into the mood for re-reading the Halo novels again (last time made it to New Blood chronologically). I'm getting the feeling that I'm gonna get permanently sucked into the Lore Vortex.

pulsar pivot
#

I'm here for lore

waxen anchor
#

HiddenXperia has great lore

#

as someone who has read a ton of the books

versed helm
#

Not going to lie, I sort of like the character of Sooln 'Xellus

gilded mason
#

Ya make it sound like disliking her would be expected

versed helm
#

I especially like her expertise in the fields of science and technology

#

So what kind of Forerunner secrets could be found on Kholo?

pulsar pivot
#

The forerunner secret kind

stable flower
warped gust
pulsar pivot
#

I dont think they are bad but

warped gust
#

why is the Epitaph Guardian in Infinite

pulsar pivot
#

But a tad bit over exaggerated

gilded mason
#

Love that Forerunner aesthetic

warped gust
#

it's great

stable flower
warped gust
#

I wonder if we'll actuary get o fight it this time

#

rude

pulsar pivot
#

Yes

stable flower
#

Pretty much. I mean, Enduring Conviction couldn't even beat a single 86-year-old human ship.

empty patrol
#

Does anyone know if Stewards sentinels are canon

#

Please @ me if you have the answer

jade wave
#

@empty patrol yes

#

You could simply look this up

#

But it is on halopedia

empty patrol
#

My friend was saying they’re weren’t but I was positive it was as well

jade wave
#

Why’d he say they wernt?

#

Very strange

empty patrol
#

I have no clue Chief

empty patrol
humble yacht
#

i dunno but your friend might just be a troll

jade wave
#

Yeah

humble yacht
#

what cobra are you talking about?

empty patrol
#

Halo wars

#

No he’s pretty genuine

humble yacht
#

halo wars is canon so if there is a vehicle that shows up in the campaign, its real

empty patrol
#

That’s what I was thinking this whole time but he got me thinking twice

humble yacht
#

i dunno, maybe he knows he can trick you since you think he's genuine

stable flower
#

I wonder if Rhinos are still in service

pulsar pivot
#

What are the stewards sentinels

pulsar pivot
jade wave
#

I cannot post images

#

Just look it up

#

And I’m pretty sure they have only been seen at halo:outpost

#

In that like vr ride thing that shows a halo ring

pulsar pivot
#

OH

#

Oh god

jade wave
#

Lol

pulsar pivot
#

Those are big

jade wave
#

I think they have a pretty cool design

pulsar pivot
#

Much cool

jade wave
#

Lol one of their sources is “HaloCanon on Twitter”

pulsar pivot
#

My guy

#

My only sources are the halo wiki and Hidden Experia

jade wave
#

Understandable

#

My favorite source besides myself is HaloCanon

#

Good guy

versed helm
#

Couldn't the Reformist San'Shyuum use some of that Forerunner tech to fix their genetic problems, other than using it to create the Prelates

terse lava
#

They likely have been, as ee see in 1552, they managed to start work on life extension projects. Remember though, it isn't that easy to unravel Forerunner technology

versed helm
#

True

golden spear
#

I have a theory

versed helm
#

I still would love to see an animation of a fight between Chief and a Prelate

golden spear
#

About how Halo 5's portrayal of Cortana can actually fit in with the lore

#

LOGIC PLAGUE

gilded mason
#

Because she's rampant.

versed helm
#

Hasn't the logic plague theory been proven to be bs?

gilded mason
#

Yes

golden spear
#

Then what is the explanation for Mendicant Bias' defection to The Flood?

gilded mason
#

We're talking about Cortana having the LP being incorrect

versed helm
#

Remind me again, how dangerous would a Prelate be to a Spartan?

gilded mason
#

They're the same skill and strength as Spartans and high-skilled Elites

golden spear
#

So, probably somewhat dangerous

versed helm
#

As I said, I would love to see an animation of a fight between John and a Prelate

golden spear
#

Though, I will say, if John ever falls to the Flood, the UNSC is SCREWED

gilded mason
#

Why?

golden spear
#

John's tactical knowledge

gilded mason
#

It's not really that special.

#

Definitely above average, but not something that would ruin an entire government

versed helm
#

From what I can tell, John just has the power of plot armor

#

Plus, he is a symbol

golden spear
#

That would be extremely demoralizing for the UNSC

gilded mason
#

They'll get over it

versed helm
#

Or here's a thought, how different would the Halo timeline be if the Forerunners managed to defeat the Flood?

gilded mason
#

The ones that will really get demoralized are the real-life Master Chief superfans.

golden spear
#

Also, I'm curious if the UNSC has done research into reverse engineering captured Covenant tech such as weapons, etc.

gilded mason
gilded mason
golden spear
#

Obviously, no UNSC energy swords because those would be impractical on a modern battlefield

gilded mason
#

For basically most of the war, they got nowhere, as the tech was just way too esoteric for them to understand

versed helm
#

Lets say, in the middle of the Forerunner-Flood War

golden spear
#

Of course, the Forerunners brought the Flood crisis on themselves when they deposed the precursors

#

TL;DR: The Forerunners' fall was self inflicted

waxen anchor
#

@golden spear That is a very simplified version of events.

gilded mason
#

Though accurate

waxen anchor
#

They slaughtered the Precursors, yes, but it didn’t necessarily create the flood

#

The flood was an unintended consequence of the dust some precursors composed themselves into

#

It corrupted over time

#

Did we ever find out whether that was on purpose?

#

Like the Precursors meant for the dust to become the flood?

gilded mason
#

As far as we know, it was an accident

waxen anchor
#

Then yeah

#

The Forerunners did vaguely set in motion their own fall

#

but it wasnt like

#

on purpose

#

It’s just an EXTREMELY oversimplified version of events and it irked me

humble yacht
#

The forerunners struck first out of fear. They didn’t really know if the precursors would have wiped them out to let humanity take the mantle

terse lava
#

Would say the Primordial said it best, the Precursors brought it on themselves. They could have effortlessly stopped their creations, and informed them of what would truly happen. The majority though decided to just sit back and let enjoy the new experience. Then later they go insane

waxen anchor
#

Oh my god

#

You can’t paste images

terse lava
#

Nope

waxen anchor
#

Ugh

#

i have a meme about it :(

#

Anyways, night fellas

terse lava
#

Likely could in the past, but $10 days it was abused up the wazoo

fair hazel
#

No memes

pulsar pivot
#

No memes

main rivet
#

Obviously the Forerunners have their own issues, but you can't really blame them for a preemptive strike versus annihilation.

#

The Librarian makes the point that #NotAllPrecursors, but the extant examples we've seen definitely suggest that "we made you, we can unmake you" was their motto, so I don't think the Forerunners were wrong.

pulsar pivot
#

Fear starts a lot of wars

jade wave
#

And I don’t believe they started the war out of fear, they simply used that as an excuse and reason to war against the precursors. I think they started it out of sheer arrogance and anger that the precursors thought they were unworthy of holding the mantle

#

The whole reason the precursors took it from them in the first place

terse lava
#

Yet the only one to make that claim, is an insane Precursor

jade wave
#

I do not understand why the Precursors would violate their own belief of the Mantle

main rivet
#

Why would the Forerunners?

#

They're fallible, like everyone else.

jade wave
#

But the Precursors are not “like everyone else”, not even close

main rivet
#

Not sure where you get that idea.

jade wave
#

What idea?

waxen anchor
#

@main rivet He means they are quite literally extra dimensional beings

jade wave
#

I’m not sure if he was responding to me in the first place

main rivet
#

The stories don't paint the Precursors as infallible, so I'm not sure why you're treating them as such.

jade wave
#

But I’m not treating them as infallible?

versed helm
jade wave
#

I’m treating them as an intelligent group of beings who are capable of making intelligent decisions

#

A group of beings that supersedes our comprehension

fair hazel
#

An ant might think that of humans

main rivet
#

We are intelligent beings who are capable of making intelligent decisions, doesn't mean we don't screw up. With the caveat that 'how can you comprehend something that defies comprehension', nothing about the Precursors save for the nuts and bolts of how neural physics or the Domain work is really 'beyond our comprehension'.

#

Either way, it's not like 'magic' technology actually means the people wielding technology are so much smarter than people who don't have that tech.

#

Anyhow, that's all tangential to the original point—that the best information we have says the Precursors were going to try and wipe the Forerunners out. You may disagree, but you're going to have to argue against Mythos' accounting.

jade wave
#

I haven’t read Mythos so forgive me for being ignorant. How do they explain it in Mythos, is the account from an individual or is it just stated?

#

And there is more about the precursors that is not in our comprehension beyond neural physics and the domain

#

We are also talking about a group of beings that predate the known Universe

humble yacht
#

I don’t know about that

#

All that’s been said is that the precursors have seeded multiple galaxies with life, but that doesn’t mean they’re older than the universe

jade wave
#

I’ll have to research it than, I thought I’ve heard it before

main rivet
#

"The Precursors planned to wipe out the Forerunner race, strip the Mantle from them, and give it to another species deemed worthy."

jade wave
#

Is that just a blanket statement or from an individual

#

And their age is derived from them being quoted as having 200 billions years of knowledge, but no age has been specifically stated

humble yacht
#

that's what the forerunners thought they were going to do

jade wave
#

That is my point

#

Bias from the forerunners

#

Excuse for war

main rivet
#

It's from a human AI on the Ark. They're certainly more objective than the Primordial.

jade wave
#

An ancient human AI?

main rivet
#

(And again, the entire point of Mythos is to be an explainer of the universe. Obviously it's wrapped up in set dressing so they can retcon stuff whenever they want, but it's clearly "what happened" as of now.)

#

No, a modern human AI.

jade wave
#

I see

humble yacht
#

Halo Mythos is from the perspective of an in-universe character

jade wave
#

Which character?

humble yacht
#

Curator

main rivet
jade wave
#

Oh I see

#

This still does not really help your case

#

This ai is using forerunner knowledge

main rivet
#

You are the most dense individual I have ever met, lol. Operating off of incomplete knowledge and then rejecting anything else.

#

"This official, comprehensive, authoritative guide to the Halo universe, written in collaboration with 343 Industries, the developers of the “Halo” franchise, marks the first time that a book incorporates the entirety of the “Halo” canon, including the games, books, comics, live-action and animated entertainment, and more."

humble yacht
#

play nice

jade wave
#

I’m the one operating off of incomplete knowledge?

#

I am looking at this from in-universe

#

This book is written from the perspective of a UNSC AI using Forerunner knowledge

#

One point of view

main rivet
#

An AI with the entirety of history available through the domain.

#

Seriously, read the book, and educate yourself.

#

You are someone who hasn't bothered doing the homework complaining about stuff you haven't even read./

jade wave
#

Perhaps

humble yacht
#

the domain itself is biased

jade wave
#

I have read all books but Mythos

#

Sorry man

humble yacht
#

it chooses what info to present

jade wave
#

Don’t know why your getting so heated, we were just having a debate

humble yacht
#

Mythos is like the Spartan Field Manual, it explains things from an in universe context, so the information is not from some omnipotent outside force

main rivet
#

It's intended to be the authoritative retelling of the Halo Story Bible.

versed helm
#

How do you shoot a br?

main rivet
#

Obviously they have cover for future adjustments if need be.

versed helm
#

I can't find the trigger on this thing

main rivet
#

But pretending it's all biased is willfull ignorance.

jade wave
#

We are acting as if this universe is real, with real people and real events

main rivet
#

Especially when it's being used to prop up the idea that the Precursors were super wonderful people who wouldn't think about erasing life they considered their own to do what they wanted with.

jade wave
#

History is susceptible to bias

humble yacht
#

nobody is saying the precursors were super wonderful.

main rivet
#

Lol

jade wave
#

I merely was saying I believed they would not wipe out on of their own creations

humble yacht
#

all that's being said is that the forerunners acted without knowing for sure whether the precursors were going to kill them

jade wave
#

Akin to how a parent would look at its children

main rivet
#

And that is not at all how the Precursors are presented, at all.

jade wave
#

How so?

humble yacht
#

the precursors definitely didn't act like standard parents

#

they were more like kids watching an ant farm

main rivet
#

(Not to mention you don't have to look far to find parents who have the 'I created you, I can end you' response to rebellious kids who aren't acting how they think they should.)

jade wave
#

True

humble yacht
#

its entirely possible that if they didn't like the farm, they'd dump it and start again. but we simply don't know. and the forerunners didn't either.

#

they were def afraid of being wiped out and likely looked only for evidence that would support that theory without looking for evidence that would deny it

#

which is classic confirmation bias

jade wave
#

I guess for me this begs the question that cannot be answered as to why the precursors did not fight back

humble yacht
#

so in the end, maybe they were justified in striking first, or maybe not. you can't deny that fear was the root of their pre-emptive strike

#

the precursors didn't fight back because either 1) they didn't need to, or 2) they didn't want to

#

it's possible that to them, extinction was simply a new experience

jade wave
#

I can see that

simple light
#

I don’t guess there is just a giant list of the books somewhere? Like every book and the order in which

#

I’ve been really bored recently, need something to do lol

jolly furnace
#

We are never gonna get the actual truth behind the Precursor-Forerunner war i think

#

Heck the versions we have for it all contradict each other in places

jolly furnace
#

Apparently its the violence from their creations towards them that was the new experience and worthy of study and observation

#

As for Precursors themselves, they are pretty incomprehensible.

#

Their thought-patterns, their shapeshifting abilities, (this breaks physics as we know it), their reality warping, their indestructible stuff (bar a Halo pulse which itself isn't guaranteed to make it non-functional or destroy it completely as seen in Silentium at times) all defy logic and physics

humble yacht
#

they said they changed physical forms like nothing but nothing about being extinct

#

the forerunners had to have developed weapons that targeted the metaphysical aspects of the precursors, otherwise it would have been a pointless war

jade wave
#

Probably lost to time or hidden with the rest of the forerunners that went to Path Kethona

jolly furnace
# humble yacht they said they changed physical forms like nothing but nothing about being extin...

Well if they could go from physical to immaterial forms and back through their reincarnations, then physically speaking, at least one physical form the Precursors took throughout history did go extinct in terms of their are no longer any physical speciemens of that form or species around anymore. The Precursors cheat in a way that they can return from such a thing by assuming immaterial form if they die off whereas we cannot do this when we die.

humble yacht
#

extinction in this context is a situation where they could not come back as they normally did

#

if they just lose their phyiscal forms but could come back later whenever they want, they aren't really dead

#

and the forerunners wouldn't be safe from potential retaliation from them

jade wave
versed helm
#

Halopedia has you covered.

humble yacht
#

try google searching "halo novels"

simple light
#

thanks yall

golden spear
#

I also wonder how humanity will uphold the Mantle going forward

humble yacht
#

i don't think they will

jade wave
#

Maybe humanity should figure out exactly what the mantle is first

humble yacht
#

i think the right answer to the mantle is rejecting it

#

no one race should rule over all others

jade wave
#

I don’t think it’s as simple as that

#

Well for the Forerunner version of the Mantle it was

gilded mason
#

Any version of the Mantle that elevates one species above all others is a negative.

humble yacht
#

the mantle itself doesn't do the elevating, tho

#

it's just a philosophy, a mindset

gilded mason
#

Yeah, but ya know what I mean

humble yacht
#

its the species' own arrogance that lets them think they should be above all others

#

the greeks called it hubris

#

if the mantle was some actual thing that powered you up, not sure if that would make it better or worse

#

i mean, what do we even know about how the Forerunners handled their role as Mantle holders

#

they made Guardians to police systems

#

they degenerated species that challenged them

gilded mason
#

Swell guys, those Forerunners

humble yacht
#

what good did they actually do for other species?

jade wave
#

Stability

#

And that’s about it

humble yacht
#

I bet they wouldn't have saved Krypton

jade wave
#

Lol

#

Did Ancient Humanity even know about the Mantle?

humble yacht
#

i'm sure they had some idea of it

jade wave
#

Oh right they did reference living time I think

livid current
#

What happened to Mendican Bias after the Halo array was fired?

#

I assume I spelled that wrong, but I’m talking about the Forerunner AI that fell victim to the Logic Plague

jade wave
#

Offensive Bias kicked his teeth in

livid current
#

?

gilded mason
#

And then after that, he was imprisoned on the Ark

jade wave
#

He was defeated by Offensive Bias at the battle of the lesser Ark and what ostral said

humble yacht
#

MB and OB had this intense naval battle

#

MB was winning but then he lost like 80% of his ships to the halo

#

then OB traded him ship for ship and won

livid current
#

So..... he got blown up by another AI?

humble yacht
#

no

#

MB was split into chunks after his loss and transported to the ark to stand trial

#

he was locked up under the ark, but somehow one piece escaped and took a key ship to go find some humans

#

instead it crash landed on the prophets homeworld, and that started the Covenant

livid current
#

You make it sound like it’s some kind of mobile computer person. I guess I always imagined it as a big 1960’s motherboard

humble yacht
#

MB is data

#

when I say "piece" i mean a piece of his code

#

well, i should say he was data

gilded mason
#

Of my ships that had been captured, 11.3 percent of them are close enough to Mendicant's core fleet that they can be used offensively - either by initiating their self-destruct sequences, or by opening unrestricted ruptures into [slipstream space].

It is best that our crews perished now; because the battle that is about to ensue would have driven them mad.

I throw away all the rules of acceptable conduct during battle; near the ruptures I throw away all the accepted ideas of how the natural world is supposed to behave. I toss around [37,654 tonne] dreadnoughts like they were fighters; dimly aware of the former crews being crushed to liquescence.
Offensive Bias was such a madlad.

humble yacht
#

because after H3 he should be dead

#

but 343 gotta keep people in limbo for some reason

jade wave
livid current
#

Interesting, thanks for the info

humble yacht
#

MB started out that battle throwing civilian and pleasure vessels at OB

#

didn't even use his military vessels to start

#

the shade

versed helm
#

Or how different would things be if Operation: RED FLAG went through and they managed to capture a San'Shyuum Hierarch?

jade wave
#

I do not think they would have succeeded

gilded mason
#

It was doomed to fail

jade wave
#

I could only see it succeeding if they managed to capture all 3 of the high prophets

#

If they didn't the remaining one would just let them die most likely

versed helm
#

Or what if Keyes didn't slipspace jump to Reach in the aftermath of the Battle of Sigma Octanus IV

jade wave
#

It would just take the Covenant a little longer to find Reach/Earth

gilded mason
#

Not even, since Rho 'Barutamee found Reach independently of Sigma Octanus IV

jade wave
#

Oh right

gilded mason
#

And Regret found Earth independently of that as well

jade wave
#

Perhaps the UNSC would have just resisted a little harder and longer

versed helm
#

Also, how would humanity fare in their war with the Covenant if ONI didn't hide all of that Forerunner tech on Onyx?

gilded mason
#

The same.

jade wave
#

I doubt ONI wasn't trying to use that technology to create new weapons

simple light
#

when someone asks you to explain halo lore and they havent played a single game

versed helm
#

I would imagine that more colonies would've survived had all of that Forerunner tech on Onyx was reverse engineered

jade wave
#

I am assuming that ONI was trying to do just that

#

Considering they have the most experienced division that specialize in those fields

gilded mason
#

And not that easy to reverse-engineer stuff, yeah

#

Halsey couldn't even figure out Covenant tech for decades

jade wave
#

And they had access to Onyx for quite along time, from before they even knew who the Forerunners were

versed helm
#

So what other Forerunner technologies could be on Earth besides the Portal at Voi and that one Forerunner complex inside of or underneath Mt. Kilimanjaro?

jade wave
#

Perhaps some beacons placed by the Librarian to implant/awaken geas in humans

#

Beyond that I don't see any other technology that would be left there

versed helm
#

Maybe another complex located somewhere in North America or Asia

jade wave
#

Perhaps

#

But for what purpose would a complex be needed

#

The Librarian already recreated a version of Earth on Bastion

versed helm
#

Oh yeah, that

#

For the purpose of recreating the Precursors?

jade wave
#

Bastion? Or the theoretical complex on the current Earth?

versed helm
#

Bastion

jade wave
#

It wasn’t so much recreating them

#

More like tending to them and making sure they survived

versed helm
#

If Bastion is a recreation of Earth, would it also be seeded with Earth biota?

jade wave
#

Most likely

versed helm
#

Can't wait to visit Bastion, if we ever get the chance to

jade wave
#

Honestly when I read it, it was dreamlike

jolly furnace
jolly furnace
jade wave
#

I thought Dwaoa-Maadthu was more their word for living time

jolly furnace
#

Didact at least equates it to the Mantle

jade wave
#

Was this referenced in Silentium?

#

Oh I see

jolly furnace
#

I interpret dwaoa-maadthu as akin to the Circle of Life

jolly furnace
#

I feel like AH's idea of th Mantle would be akin to protect diversity but don't stifle competition and evolution

#

Try to keep peace and make peace with neighbours but if war occurs you either make peace or win or lose if peace is possible

#

If war is to end in extinction of a species so be it.

#

I think AH would either conquer or wipe out the opponant if it wouldn't surrender

jade wave
#

Perhaps

jolly furnace
#

Brutal but thats life at times

#

Life is peace and conflict

#

rinse repeat

jade wave
#

But I feel like that goes against the core of the mantle, not even the forerunners did that

#

Actually I can see that

jolly furnace
#

Precursors had no issue with war

#

or competition

#

these things were not against the Mantle to them

#

It was natural part of life

jade wave
#

But they were not going to war

jolly furnace
#

The issue was excessive violence and death on a massive scale like Flood or Halo firing

jade wave
#

I meant going against the mantle as if AH were the holders of the mantle

jolly furnace
#

that was an issue for them

jolly furnace
jade wave
#

Yeah

jolly furnace
#

Precursors considered war a part of life

#

not against the Mantle

#

So they knew of it

#

and no doubt experienced over billions of years

jade wave
#

True

jolly furnace
#

They believed that all things experienced by life, good or ill, were only "sweetness" to the living universe. Consistent with these tenets, the Precursors wished to experience the hardships and struggles faced by all life firsthand by committing themselves to numerous cycles of evolution, technological advancement, death and rebirth over and over again.

#

So war was fine once it didn;'t threaten biodivesity in a galaxy

#

Ideally i'd love if war stopped but alas life doesnt work like that

#

Life is competition

#

and conflict

#

and compromise and co-operation

#

all rolled into one

#

The Forerunners while keeping peace, stifled evolution and growth and change through devolving species

#

reducing them and keeping them to small populations

#

in some cases outright wiping them out

#

etc

#

So GMs words to MB back in the day had some truth to them

jade wave
#

You have changed my thoughts on this, very interesting

jolly furnace
#

I feel like the Mantle holders need to keep a balance

#

akin to the Circle of Life

#

One needs to understand and respect that balance

jade wave
#

I think the whole thing with the precursors was maintaining balance

jolly furnace
#

I think so yes

#

from what we know

jade wave
#

I think that explains the Primordial and why he was so “evil”

#

And the explanation from Point of Light

#

Would you say the Flood was the Precursors attempt at balancing the Universe?

#

Or something along those lines

jolly furnace
#

They are consuming biodiversity

#

Peace would occur in theory in the hive mind but also eternal agony and pain. no joy

#

The Mantle is about joy and pain

#

life and death

#

The Flood is would create new life born in agony and suffering as the GM said in SIlentium

#

No more will

#

No more freedom

#

The Flood is the anti-thesis to the Precursors philosophy I feel

jade wave
#

Now would you say there is unbalance that was formed after the Forerunners destroyed the Precursors?

jolly furnace
#

Yah seems so

#

Flood continued that

#

Librarian is tryna correct it

#

as per her Geas from the Precursors

#

by seeding uncorrupt Precursors elsewhere

jade wave
#

Oh right

jolly furnace
#

And tryna get life in the MWG to defeat the Flood there

jade wave
#

Was her geas referenced in PoL?

terse lava
#

Just wanted to throw this in. Thr Forerunners had indeed exterminated other civilizations who challenged them

#

Humanity, had the librarian done her thing, woe have just been the latest on the list

humble yacht
#

Milky Way galaxy

jade wave
#

Unbelievable, I should have known that

terse lava
#

All good, I miss obvious abbreviations too

jolly furnace
jolly furnace
#

Which is even more interesting given her knowledge of them being genetically related to her kind and her own human-like traits compared to most forerunners

terse lava
#

But she did win over the council?

#

They chose to listen to her to an extent and not wipe out their enemy

jolly furnace
#

they went with didact

#

Faber did anyway

#

And he asked would she follow the mantle

#

as didact suggests

#

and send humanity home and taught to stand with the galaxy

#

If librarian won the aguement, they'd have utterly annihilated mankind

#

Didact's view prevented that

#

at least at the start

#

Silentium suggests the Flood retreat is what kept him from utterly wiping them out or the forerunners from doing it

terse lava
#

Yes she did want humanity wiped out, at the start of the war. Her views changed after their defeat

last anchor
#

And she realized they needed to be saved.
And she went to Path Kehnoha

jolly furnace
#

Yah

jade wave
#

I don’t have any recommendations but there is one called the Halo Conversationalist Podcast

#

Maybe that’s what your looking for?

#

@faint escarp

jade wave
#

@faint escarp I’m about an hour and ten minutes into the first one and I am enjoying it. They do go off on tangents sometimes but I somewhat enjoyed what they were talking about in the tangents

stable flower
#

So there were still some Covenant Loyalists on the keyship?

gilded mason
#

Yeah...somehow

jade wave
#

The keyship that went to earth with Chief on it?

#

Ohh nevermind I remember what your talking about

stable flower
#

Wow

jade wave
#

I mean a forerunner keyship is not a small vessel

stable flower
#

They apparently lived there, until the Banished raided it that is.

jade wave
#

I do not find that surprising, Truth probably left some of his most loyal and fanatical warriors under his command

humble yacht
#

the surprising part is how the halo didn't kill them

pulsar pivot
#

So if I got this right the forerunner keyship Eiffel tower was a literal key to the ark

jade wave
#

Oh I see

#

These guys just go on tangents about in universe stuff

pulsar pivot
#

Well they gotta keep conversation

jade wave
#

Understandable

#

These guys don’t seem to bash on her to much

#

And I roll my eyes every time people do that about Halsey

#

I do not think the general public knows the exact specifics of the II and III programs, just that it led to the Spartan IVs