lore-and-universe

[delicate notch]

Tfa was alright imo, and the fight scene on the white/red salt lake in the second was cool too. But that's it. Second movie was bad and the third one of the worst I've ever seen. I still don't understand the silver troopers point, was she supposed to impose respect or something? She never did anything besides talking a couple of times and then dying.

[sage vapor]

I'm listening to Halo: Broken Cirlce on audible and I find this book hard to follow. I felt that way while reading Cryptum. Anyone else found it hard to follow the story?

They feel all over the place. And I'm only 6 hours into Broken Circle

[dusk basin]

Currently reading Halo: The Flood. CE's my favorite game in the series and this is furthering that- I've read all the way to 343 Guilty Spark. Just one question- How much time passed between the ending of what would be Assault on the Control Room to the beginning of 343 Guilty Spark?

[terse lava]

Hopping between characters is typical of most stories @sage vapor otherwise things get rather stale

[sage vapor]

True

[uncut kernel]

Yes

[uncut kernel]

my cannon is that the covenant encountered humans in 2520

[polar snow]

Hey I’m new to the lore of halo and the only stuff I’ve kinda heard is some from some YouTube videos and I was wondering how I can get more into the lore of halo

[ocean ibex]

Are you 100% sure about that

[ocean ibex]

Books are a good place to start

The Death Star doesn’t completely destroy every inch of a planet, some fragments of Phrik survived the destruction of Alderaan

If you don’t know what phrik is, it’s essentially an alloy that makes beskar look like toilet paper

[uncut kernel]

I knew about it before beskar, I like to call it frik prik

[paper coyote]

Gn ily gamers

[versed helm]

BOOKS is a good place to learn more about the lore, Halo canon, installation 00 and Hiddenxperia can also give you more intelligence on the lore as well.

[barren ferry]

I thought Beskar was tougher

Than Phrik.

I know Phrik is tough enough to survive that blast, although no other material other than Beskar to my knowledge is capable of doing so

But it pretty much did destroy the entire planet

The only material that survived was the Phrik.

[polar snow]

Ok where can I read the books

[unique crater]

Why did cortana ask if masterchief missed her when he just woke up from being abducted from his home and put in spartan program? Halo ce

[pale zephyr]

what

[craggy sierra]

That was literally 30+ years before CE

[pale zephyr]

this guy

[main hill]

Keep watching videos about the lore or read the books.

[main hill]

Audible has some halo books if you want audio book versions.

[pale zephyr]

Installation 00 does good lore stuff.

[main hill]

Other than that you could probs find em at book stores or libraries

I remember finding halo books in my schools library

I was surprised

[uncut kernel]

Want covie stuff
covenant canon

[ocean ibex]

Phrik is the only metal that is completely resistant to lightsabers

[steep ether]

hiddenxperia does good lore stuff two

[terse lava]

Can find plenty of stuff though on halopedia as well

[ocean ibex]

The lore is pretty easy to understand, once you get all of the important bits out of the way it’s pretty easy to piece all of the lore together

Also yeah, halopedia is one of the best sources for halo lore

[humble yacht]

i dunno, i imagine the best source is the primary material

[ocean ibex]

Yeah, that’s mb

[nimble crest]

He was abducted like...... 30 years prior to that

[uncut kernel]

Fun fact: John wasn't abducted the hour before halo CE

[main hill]

There is a channel called covenant canon that covers everything covenant

[cedar surge]

And there is a channel called halo canon that covers everything halo

[humble yacht]

I prefer Cannon Canon

[full token]

Is cannon cannon even cannon?

[thorn flax]

can we just talk bout how the Paris class frigate is the coolest ship ever

[uncut kernel]

yes

[thorn flax]

screw anything the covenant has
can it survive a MAC cannon?

well yeah

they can

[fair hazel]

I prefer oter ships

I tend to really like Prowlers

[terse lava]

CCS cruiser is the best

[fair hazel]

ORS-Class are one i like better

[delicate notch]

MAC rounds were tungsten, right? Was that always the case or did they use depleted uranium and such as well?

[ocean ibex]

Yes, they used tungsten

[cedar surge]

Thunk its both

[main hill]

Ngl, something like the modern day Foxhound vehicle would have been a better than the warthog

I say this because the Warthog is literally just a modern day humvee without any sort of protection for the occupants.

You might say “well maybe the Warthog is faster than the Humvee” Well, not really the humvee has a top speed of over 70 miles per hour with the Warthog going at 78 miles per hour

Not much of a difference

[versed helm]

So a serious question, how will the Master Chief die?
Because I'm starting to feel like John's story is about to come to a conclusion or something

[delicate notch]

@main hill The warthog is a terrible vehicle for war. It's absolutely not made for anything else than gameplay being quick and fun

[main hill]

Yeah

[main hill]

As for this, no one really knows and I doubt 343 even knows how to end such an iconic character

[delicate notch]

Clone him and create a storm trooper army of MCs.

But yea, they will either kill him while saving the galaxy (Annihilating the flood I.e) or make an open end, disappearing into the wast empty space.

[versed helm]

Or send him out with a bang

[gilded mason]

I prefer him retiring (perhaps to the Diplomatic Corps)

[versed helm]

Btw, the best variant of the Scorpion tank is the one with the laser cannon

[delicate notch]

I belive I heard someone say that he died at the age of 73 or something. "Might" have been a fanfic tho

[versed helm]

How old is John right now?

[delicate notch]

In his 40s.

I believe

[unique rune]

Chronological age puts him at around 48 years, biological age would be slightly lower due to cryo time.

[versed helm]

So anyone else felt sorry for Thel when you play him in H2/H2A?

[delicate notch]

MC is a ginger, right?

[gilded mason]

Brown hair

[stable flower]

I did, except for the Heretic part cuz that was filler

[delicate notch]

I thought he had reddish hair with freckles

[versed helm]

If Sesa Refumee had lived, would he have joined the SOS?

[gilded mason]

Most likely

[unique rune]

It’s pretty brown in the few images we do have of younger John

[versed helm]

Or what about Xytan Jar Wattinree?

[gilded mason]

He's more of an enigma

But it might require some good diplomacy

He's a vengeful sort, but who knows how he'd react to reason

[stable flower]

I always wanted humans to discover Sesa's heretics.

[delicate notch]

Well, he is shown in the animated movie about him. Can't remember how he looked tho.

[versed helm]

Who else besides me likes both M'ken and Zo as characters?

[gilded mason]

Yes. Pretty sure most people who read the book liked them

[versed helm]

Yep

I wonder if we'll ever see Zo Resken and the Ussans again

[gilded mason]

Perhaps

[versed helm]

So is Enduring Bias a Contender class Ancilla or no?

[unique rune]

Unknown

[gilded mason]

What we do know is this:

He's a good boy.

[versed helm]

Roughly hexagonal, with three lenses on one side

[unique rune]

Description seems to resemble a Contender-class but until something definitively says what type he is I would avoid making any conclusive assumptions

[versed helm]

True, just my thoughts

What race lived on Netherop?

[gilded mason]

We do not know.

[versed helm]

It did say that this race ultimately died off before achieving spaceflight due to excessive heat created by greenhouse gasses.

So who or what constructed those stone buildings on Delta Halo?

[gilded mason]

Most likely ancient Forerunners, even by their standards

[uncut kernel]

forerrunners that like stone

[versed helm]

Or maybe some race that was among the collection of species that were housed on Delta Halo during the Conservation Measure

That's my best guess

[gilded mason]

Based on the stuff from H2A, seems to be ancient Forerunner

[unique rune]

I was under the impression they were ancient Forerunner structures transferred to the ring for... preservation or something of the sort.

[gilded mason]

Yeah, that's what I assume as well

[versed helm]

I wonder if those structures survived the glassing of Delta Halo's surface by the Sangheili Fleet of Retribution

[main hill]

Do you think archer missiles could be used for precision strikes on a position instead of always being used for carpet bombing ?

[versed helm]

Would you live on Venezia?

[main hill]

Why not

[ocean ibex]

He’s 49, his biological death was at 80

[gilded mason]

Are you thinking of Johnson...?

[versed helm]

Tbh, I would so live on Venezia because yoink the UNSC

[ocean ibex]

Think he meant MC

[main hill]

Join the local insurrection on Venezia lmao

[uncut kernel]

rn MC has no biological death

[gilded mason]

Talking about you, since John being dead at 73 doesn't make sense unless there's something I forgot?

[ocean ibex]

80 I meant

Did something wrong

[gilded mason]

Righteo

[paper coyote]

Hello ostral my fellow gamer

[jagged schooner]

What's poppin off 'round here then??

[heavy crescent]

Not much.

Someone think of a lore related question

e.g. what are the precursors

Did they make the flood

[versed helm]

reading the wiki rn

A few Precursors escaped or were spared by the Forerunners. They either went into suspended animation or became molecular dust that was meant to eventually regenerate into their past forms. However, over millions of years, the dust became defective, failing to reconstitute the Precursors and instead inducing madness and mutations in lifeforms that came in contact with it. This form would later be known as the Flood.

it looks like they were sort of a really large god like race

i keep being warned for swearing frick

Over time, they would also judge whether a species was worthy of the Mantle, their assumed role of guardianship of all life. The humanoid species native to the world of Ghibalb, who would come to be known as the Forerunners, were next chosen for this task. Originally created by the Precursors to serve as their assistants and adjutants,[7] the Forerunners were eventually judged to be unworthy of taking on the Mantle and planned to be wiped out[13], and the Precursors instead decided that the responsibility would fall on the shoulders of another of their creations; a collection of species referred to as humanity, hailing from the planet known as Erde-Tyrene.

so they created this philosophy that was sort of like 'one species controls the universe and keeps protection over it'

they create new life for planets, they make sure everything works

the forerunners, who made the halo rings, were going to be the next holders of the mantle but then were decided to be really rubbish so the precursors tried to wipe them out

the precursors decided to give the responsibility to us, found out about the plan to murder them all and wiped out the precursors

i really need to read the forerunner trilogy

@heavy crescent i hope this somewhat explains

they are just big cthulu lads

[heavy crescent]

Ah yeah forgot about the dust part

I was just trying to revive the chat a little but I think everyone is sleeping or smth

[thorn flax]

i'm working on a tabletop stratagie game about space combat in halo
can anyone tell me where to find specs of the ships?

and what would be a good scale to mesure my ships in

its mostly gonna be based around the human-covenent war

[unique rune]

I mean.
https://www.halopedia.org/Halo:_Fleet_Battles

What a shame it is that Spartan Games went under.

[thorn flax]

thats tough

[last anchor]

Raw data still exists. You can use it for reference

That said Halopedia has most of the data on the ships if you need them so

[thorn flax]

god the COS is massive

[ocean ibex]

The CSO you mean?

To give you a sense of scale it’s bigger than most emperor class battleships harbored by the imperium navy

[lone kite]

Is Master chief a Demolition man reference ?

[thorn flax]

ah yes
I misclicked

[terse lava]

Its also larger then the super star destroyer from star wars

[barren ferry]

Speaking of star wars, imagine Force Sensitive / Sith Elites @terse lava

[terse lava]

If anything they'd be light side users

[barren ferry]

How hard would they be to take down

[terse lava]

Jiralhanae would go for the red blades though

[barren ferry]

Oh god, force sensitive brutes

Absolute horror movie

The brute or elite would be able to augment their speed and strength

Either of the two would be a nightmare to fight for a regular Spartan

[thorn flax]

dang

[barren ferry]

You'd need at least 10 Hyper Lethal SPARTAN-II'S to take a force using elite down

[thorn flax]

wait is swearing banned here?

[gilded mason]

Yeh

[barren ferry]

And if it's a brute, probably 30 lmao

Brutes are faster than spartans and elites naturally right @terse lava

[gilded mason]

They are usually faster, yes

[terse lava]

Yes, this is correct. And also Sangheili are already naturally scary fast. Hunters in the dark shows Usze 'Taham(4th player in halo 3) able to carry a human and running fast enough for thing to be a blue for the human(Vale)

[gilded mason]

Though exceptions exist in both directions.

[barren ferry]

Well in one of the EU Novels, I think one of the human Jedi was able to move at about 200 MPH, so if that's a human Jedi

[gilded mason]

And apparently are so fast that they are able to jump much farther than Spartans can

[barren ferry]

Imagine a brute with force speed

[gilded mason]

With Spartans flabbergasted at the speeds they can go

[barren ferry]

Not to mention all the other things that the force would let brutes do

Such as force crush

[barren ferry]

Ah yes, the force would enhance their jump distance too

[craggy sierra]

Good thing they're all hyper lethal then

[grave swift]

I think Spartans could potentially take down Jedi. Mandos don't have the augmentations Spartans do, but can do so with the right gear. Heck, slugthrowers (aka normal guns) are noted as good weapons against Jedi.

[ocean ibex]

Plus a spartan can cave in a Jedi’s skull with their pinky finger

[uncut kernel]

They would especially with projectile weapons which lightsabers cannot block, pair that with very fast firing speed give a spartan a SMG and you could most likely take down a adequate amount of jedi

[ocean ibex]

However I doubt Spartans would be able to take an experienced master

[grave swift]

Big factor may even be if lightsabers can take down energy shielding.

[uncut kernel]

Leave that to the MACs

[ocean ibex]

Knights and padawans should be realtively easy

[naive blade]

ye

but if it was like yoda vs like 6 spartans

hmm

[grave swift]

Yoda could take them down.

[naive blade]

probably

[uncut kernel]

grunts are pretty strong and could probably take down MANY things but they are thrown into roles

[naive blade]

he would just push them away xD

[uncut kernel]

they aren't suited for

imagine if they gave grunts decent armor for all ranks

[grave swift]

Here is my question: Lets say the Spartans have AIs. Cortana was able to send an electrical pulse into an Infection form when one connected with John. Assuming a Spartan gets hit with lightening, could that AI possibly redirect it with the armors systems?

[naive blade]

OoOooOoo

hmm

[uncut kernel]

Perhaps

[naive blade]

maybe

[uncut kernel]

Fun fact: The elite minor rank was equivalent to the marine Sgt rank in both importance and skill

[naive blade]

https://tenor.com/view/halo-masterchief-nod-gif-12948347

[uncut kernel]

it's SCARY to think what a augmented brute with scaled augmentations similar to the spartan twos with suits

[naive blade]

oh no

that would be bad

[uncut kernel]

and unlike elites they don't care about it being unhonorable

[naive blade]

ye

have you played halo wars?

[uncut kernel]

yes 1 and 2

[naive blade]

i wish they made a space version dont ya think

same concept but with spaceships

[uncut kernel]

yes

[naive blade]

Infinity vs supercarrier

[hazy summit]

My friend told me that in the lore of halo SPARTIAN 117 WEIGHTS 11 TONNES. WHAT DOES HE EAT??

wtf 343\

[uncut kernel]

i'd say it'd be very close

[gilded mason]

Your friend was meming

[naive blade]

grunts

he eats grunts

xD

[uncut kernel]

(Thats a joke)

[hazy summit]

wtf lol

[uncut kernel]

it was a joke lmao
he actually eats e n e r g y b a r

[versed helm]

Wtf how do you even calculate that

[hazy summit]

the covenant stole spartians cup of coffee. thats why he is trying to kill truth but truth already drank it

THATS THE STORY

The elite credits roll

[uncut kernel]

spartan twos and threes are kidnapped childs

welll only twos

[short trellis]

It depends on if he is wearing his armour or not and remember these poeple are geneticaly modifide, and threes are voenters who did not understand fully what was gonna happen

*english

[uncut kernel]

Threes are kids that kinda got duped into it

[short trellis]

yeah

[uncut kernel]

'' hey kid wanna kill space aliens''

'' uh-uh-uh sure''

"Great now all you gotta do is become essentially a shell of a living being and be thrown into suicide missions''

"' I don't know what that means but it sounds cool ''

[fair hazel]

There's halo vs star wars going on?

[short trellis]

HALO

[naive blade]

ye xD

[fair hazel]

Why did no one tag me?

[naive blade]

we were discussing jedi vs spartans

and how yoda would destroy 6 spartans

[uncut kernel]

there was

[short trellis]

i did not know have not been on

[fair hazel]

Did you guys talk about the obvious advantage spartans have in regards of weaponry?

[naive blade]

yep

but yoda would just push them away

[short trellis]

snipers

[uncut kernel]

yep and that we said they could probably kill most of the jedi ranks

and I had an internal argument on the fact that blasters are slow trash

[fair hazel]

if spartans are pushed away, which they can activate mag boots and thrusters to try and compensate, it's not like they'll stay on the ground

[hazy summit]

"sir...d

[fair hazel]

what are the spartans equipped with too?

A hardlight shield would go a long way

[naive blade]

a lightsaber would destroy that probably

[fair hazel]

uh no

[carmine sleet]

Lightsabers have blades of plasma, like energy swords, it would be blocked by hardlight

[short trellis]

yeah

[barren ferry]

Definitely, energy swords and lightsabers are the same thing

[short trellis]

and the sheids could block most of the heat

[uncut kernel]

its not an energy shield its a pretty hard bright shield
also I think of it to be similar to a lightsaber but as a shield

[short trellis]

Definitely, energy swords and lightsabers are the same thing)NO(

[barren ferry]

Both are blades of plasma dude

[ocean ibex]

Lightsabers would have a hard time cutting through titanium

[naive blade]

i doubt

[barren ferry]

No they wouldn't, they can easily cut Durasteel

[naive blade]

ye

[barren ferry]

Which in the EU, is tougher than titanium

[uncut kernel]

theres something else: do we even know much about hardlight shields
well I don't know lots

[short trellis]

durasteel is the same hardness as Titanium grade a battle plate

[barren ferry]

Slugthrowers also only remove the risk of you dying by your own bolt, they aren't all that effective. Only skilled Mandalorians can take on Jedi, a Jedi Knight should be able to beat the average Mandalorian trooper quite easily

[uncut kernel]

also did you mean: Z-90 Photonic Coalescence Emitter/Aegis

[barren ferry]

This is especially noted by Galidraan, when Komari Vosa killed 20 Mandalorians

[carmine sleet]

Most people are going to just call it the hardlight shield because that's easier to say than that all the time

[barren ferry]

The skill difference between Jango and a regular Mandalorian is quite apparent there.

[uncut kernel]

Pretty sure that shotguns are probably the best bet for cqc

[fair hazel]

First of all the UNSC use titanium alloys, not simply pure titanium everywhere

second of all, from what source do you even produce that durasteel is the same hardness as titanium a?

[barren ferry]

And while a SPARTAN could take a Jedi in theory, kinda depends on the spartan we're talking. SPARTAN-II could go either way, as the Jedi does have the speed advantage.

Durasteel is only weaker than titanium in the new canon to my knowledge, in the Expanded Universe it is stronger.

[fair hazel]

third of all, 'only skilled mandalorians can take on a jedi' is an argument like saying, only trained special elite and brutes can take on spartans.

[carmine sleet]

Spartans are very fast and have extremely good reaction times

[fair hazel]

well that EU isn't canon

[barren ferry]

Jedi do as well.

[hazy summit]

why are we talking about star wars? we got from spartian 117 being 11 tons to this?

[fair hazel]

Jedi tend to have some precognition

[barren ferry]

I'm referring to the EU here, so that doesn't matter.

[hazy summit]

i might be losing my mind

[fair hazel]

well that's not a canon thing. i'm not going to be referencing spartan 1337 in a proper halo universe fight am i?

[uncut kernel]

It'd be pretty good against lightsabers as the bullets would be shreded into shrapnel and it'd be a bit hard to block all of them as we see many jedi get gunned down in the background of battles Totally not just plot armor being removed

[naive blade]

xD

[barren ferry]

They wouldn't be shredded into shrapnel, as evidenced by obi wan blocking Slugthrowers.

Sure he does get a few molten drops, but they are very miniscule.

[uncut kernel]

where does he do that?

[barren ferry]

He does it in a new canon comic.

[fair hazel]

The 'blocking 'slughtrower' primitive bullet weapons, is a highly exagerated feat

[barren ferry]

Slugthrowers are only primitive in the context of the SW Universe, where plasma weapons exist.

[carmine sleet]

Isn't Star Wars Legends filled with some really weird and nonsensical stuff?

[naive blade]

yep

[barren ferry]

Some, but that's mostly post-rotj

[uncut kernel]

In the SWU slugthrowers are undeveloped

[barren ferry]

Only tusken raiders Slugthrowers are.

There are full auto Slugthrowers.

[naive blade]

ever heard of the x-tie

[barren ferry]

Same way with blasters.

[uncut kernel]

compared to halo weaponry atleast

[fair hazel]

and seriously calling the star wars stuff slugthrowers and going with the primitive star wars stuff is a bit disingenious

[carmine sleet]

Didn't need to tag me and a hybrid ship isn't all that weird

[naive blade]

it is xD

[barren ferry]

The Z-6 Rotary Blaster Cannon does exist. While that can be effective against Jedi in numbers, they aren't completely helpless against it. Especially if they know Soresu on the advanced levels.

[uncut kernel]

the UNSC chaingun

there.

[fair hazel]

And the jedi were gunned down by their clones. Take the way Cal's master got killed

[barren ferry]

Yes, after fighting them for god knows how long.

Not to mention that death was kind of stupid. I've seen Padawans handle more than that.

[uncut kernel]

I'd reckon marines in numbers could take down jedi

[barren ferry]

Anyone in numbers can.

It depends on how large said group is.

It's the same principle for spartans too.

[uncut kernel]

So grunts with SMGs are kinda anti jedi

[fair hazel]

It's not an isolated incident, and it's canon, it is what it is

[barren ferry]

They really aren't. The Jedi could block the ones that don't miss, and use force speed to take out the others.

[carmine sleet]

Many didn't even get as far as Jaro did in Fallen Order in regards to holding off Clones

[uncut kernel]

Going from range? gunned down
Force pull? stuck

[fair hazel]

the standard assault rifle, and I guess SMG, or saw, are pretty good weapons

You can go deeper into UNSC aresnal

[barren ferry]

While full auto weapons could be effective in groups, one full auto blaster won't be all that better.

[fair hazel]

To get some of the big guns

[barren ferry]

Rocket Launchers also aren't a good idea.

[uncut kernel]

patch note: SMG grunt now have infinite sticky grenades

[barren ferry]

Grenades same deal.

[cedar surge]

So how fast does somethung have to go before it would be unlovable to a Jedi

[barren ferry]

I mean, if it's a projectile, Precognition can help negate it's speed.

Projectiles don't really have any means of self propulsion, that's the main issue against precognitive abilities.

[uncut kernel]

sticky grenades are perfect for gettting killed by if your a jedi
try to get up close? Stuck
try to force pull? S t u c k

[fair hazel]

You can have precognition, you'll still get overwhelmed if something is fast enough doesn't matter

[barren ferry]

They can still force push the grenade back at you.

[cedar surge]

Hey what about hydra?

[uncut kernel]

if you are trying to cqc it is easy to stick it on em

[barren ferry]

Hydra launcher, same thing really.

[cedar surge]

They are self propelled and can go fast

[fair hazel]

Also uh, a projectile going at 905m/s ... would probably be very unavoidable to a jedi, going at a high rate of fire

[uncut kernel]

use the S A W

[barren ferry]

The Jedi won't be in that situation in the first place.

[barren ferry]

Except for the fact that Precognition helps them negate blaster speed

[fair hazel]

jedi are definitely not as strong as people make them out to be in their minds

[barren ferry]

As well as Slugthrowers.

Yes, but they aren't weak either.

[fair hazel]

precognition helps them avoid bolts and anticipate them

[barren ferry]

Nor as weak as others make em out to be.

[fair hazel]

I see more people overestimating them than underestimating them

[barren ferry]

They know where the bolt will go before it's fired

[uncut kernel]

watch the battle of geonoisis and count the jedi you see get gunned down

[humble yacht]

Not really. Trying to defend against a Jedi in cqc will not leave you much room to stick something on them

[barren ferry]

Spartans would be gunned down put in that situation too.

[humble yacht]

While looking for that opening you’ll get yourself chopped

[cedar surge]

Yea precog helps them sense incoming shots but when does it become to fast for them to even avoid

[barren ferry]

Geonosis was with the Droid army being millions strong.

[fair hazel]

well spartans do go against energy sword elites and dodge and survive so it's not like they are helpless

[barren ferry]

That's why Jedi or Spartans don't get into that situation

Elites don't have Precognition

[fair hazel]

there were not millions of jedi on the arena haha

[barren ferry]

Only 212.

Most of which could only take out 100 droids.

[humble yacht]

Elites and their energy swords follow a much more predictable style of combat

[barren ferry]

That too. Energy swords are more so for slashing or lunging

So your swordsmanship is kind of limited.

[uncut kernel]

but jedi cannot survive yapyap's armada of infinite units, infact NOTHING stands in the way of yapyap

[barren ferry]

Oh god yapyap

No

Please no

[fair hazel]

The games rea`lly don't go far into swordmanship

[humble yacht]

Lightsaber combat is more unorthodox by comparison. Harder to follow and predict the direction the strike will come

[barren ferry]

I imagine the energy sword kind of had the same weakness as jar kai

Which is the act of dual wielding lightsabers

[fair hazel]

anyways, again depends on gear too. hard light shield is yay!

[barren ferry]

I mean we're assuming the spartan has UNSC tech here, I'm not really accounting for hardlight

Although that can be a major advantage

The issue with hardlight shields is it's recharge time

[fair hazel]

Palmer once killed an elite by using a hard light sword when the elite was using a energy sword

[humble yacht]

Eh

[fair hazel]

spartans hace access to hard light shield and palmer has used hard light shield before on multiple occasions after being deployed from infinity or infiltrating

[barren ferry]

H4 elites aren't exactly meant to be taken seriously lol

[fair hazel]

it's part of the spartan loadout

[humble yacht]

Hard light shield would block sabers and blasters but you’d be vulnerable to force power

[uncut kernel]

far more vulnerable cuz it slows you down

[barren ferry]

That is true. A Jedi Padawan was confident in her ability to lift an AT-TE from the ground

And an AT-TE weighs quite a few tons.

[uncut kernel]

but did they do it?

[barren ferry]

Not really cause they got stabbed before they could.

[humble yacht]

Also hardlight shield doesn’t block attacks from the back

[barren ferry]

From behind that is

[humble yacht]

And sabers can be boomerang thrown

[uncut kernel]

so it isn't much of a argument as we down't see the result

[barren ferry]

It was on a more desolated planet, I think you guys know what EU comic I'm talking about

She said "But I should be able to get the AT-TE moving at least"

[fair hazel]

Hard light shield in game isn't as flexible with the game limitations...

[barren ferry]

I mean, we don't exactly have any indication it would protect beyond the front

Force powers are still an issue there.

[humble yacht]

We have to go by what we’ve seen, not by what we hope could be possible

[fair hazel]

This 'argument' doesnt make sense

[uncut kernel]

its like saying since you can headshot dock worker's head and the helmet pops off without them dying even when using snipers

[uncut kernel]

and saying 100% cannon

[humble yacht]

Cannons are weapons

Canon is fiction

[uncut kernel]

i was saying cannon talking about the sniper

Because snipers are not cannons

[humble yacht]

Nice attempt to save face

[barren ferry]

Even if you do try to use Geonosis as Jedi being weak, that was still mainly due to the sheer numbers of the droids.

[humble yacht]

[uncut kernel]

correct

[fair hazel]

Palmer running with the hard light shield when you can't run with it in game

[barren ferry]

SPARTANs don't fare all that well against huge numbers in the open either. It's why neither spartans nor Jedi typically try to find themselves in a situation like the Geonosis arena.

[uncut kernel]

I had already posted before my melted clay brain reacted to how dumb it is

but B1s and grunts do

[cedar surge]

Remeber when Anakin did a offensive with clones on at a 90 degree angle

With droids shooting at them from the top?

[uncut kernel]

replace jedi with spartans and B1s with grunts and it might come out very similar

[fair hazel]

They don't?

[barren ferry]

Yeah, spartans can easily get shot to hell if theyre not careful in the open.

[fair hazel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndkLv2LiSKI

[cedar surge]

Pretty sure Spartans are smarter,and arnt meant to lead entire armies

[humble yacht]

Yeah but that episode is highly stylized

[uncut kernel]

nor are jedi

[humble yacht]

And not everything about it is canon

Like heels on Kelly

[fair hazel]

The way some things look visually and few things

[uncut kernel]

not meant to be army leader

[barren ferry]

Main thing about Jedi that allows non force users to keep up with them is that they typically hold back on their force abilities

[fair hazel]

not the things that happen

[barren ferry]

Due to their code.

[fair hazel]

There's that, osiris intro, and other stuff

[cedar surge]

And look where that got the clones

[humble yacht]

Also did you once complain about the Chief-Thel fight saying that it wasn’t a good representation of CHief?

[fair hazel]

what do you mean?

[barren ferry]

With sith, it's more so about proving that they are capable fighters without relying on the force entirely. Maul even states in his head that choking out vizsla would have been the easiest thing in the world.

[prisma spoke]

Hey guys does anyone here like Fortnite?

[barren ferry]

Why wouldn't we

[gilded mason]

Nope

Nobody likes Halo, actually.

[cedar surge]

Well I think for some halo is on thin ice here

[humble yacht]

That fight was a specific situation

[barren ferry]

Well true

[cedar surge]

Oh

[uncut kernel]

chief bought plot armor

[barren ferry]

That's kind of my point

[humble yacht]

Maul didn’t use force powers because it would have invalidated the victory in the eyes of the mando s

[cedar surge]

Also blue team semi helped lead a army in SoR?

[barren ferry]

In a situation where the sith isn't limited by that and is bloodlusted, they can just force choke the non force users.

[humble yacht]

He wanted their loyalty. So he had to follow their rules

[barren ferry]

Or my favorite technique, force crush.

Can't really see why anyone would favor choke over crush

[humble yacht]

Because choking is more personal

Slower

And induces more fear

[barren ferry]

Well it is easier for squeezing information out of people.

Force crush is pretty much an instant kill to anything not superhumanly durable, and even to some things that are.

[uncut kernel]

We can't have efficient bad guys!

[humble yacht]

It’s like asking why joker prefers knives to guns

[fair hazel]

Again, evidence over and over that jedi can fall to certain situations and that spartans can perform well in things like open and so on, of course they like having cover as that's tactically viable but they make it work.

And with the arsenal they have, incidentally they would be very good jedi killers.

[barren ferry]

SPARTANs can perform well in the open, yes. Like Jedi though, that means they also aren't invincible.

I'm well aware Jedi can fall in certain situations, but SPARTANs are very well able to fall in those situations too.

[uncut kernel]

infantry does the best in the open

[barren ferry]

While they would be good Jedi killers, it does depend on the type of SPARTAN.

[cedar surge]

Like that time ayla was leading clones when 66 happened and as she sensed it and turned around they already gunned her down

[barren ferry]

She didn't sense it completely.

[uncut kernel]

better example: Ki adi mundi

[barren ferry]

She turned her head to look for any droids the clones might be aiming at

Which is why she didn't look behind herself. The dark side clouded the Jedi's minds so that they couldn't sense it properly.

By the time she realized herself the clones were aiming at her, it was pretty much far too late.

[uncut kernel]

ONI can cloud people's minds better than the dark side so thats a win

[cedar surge]

The zilo beast could tell Palpatine was a Sith lord

[barren ferry]

Mundi turned around to see why his squad stopped charging with him.

[fair hazel]

Cal's master

and others

[barren ferry]

Not to mention these are clones they spent years with, bonding and all of that. So some Jedi were hesitant.

[cedar surge]

Wasn't it the opposite though?

[barren ferry]

Cals master is kind of like coleman trebors case. You can see some Padawan ranked Jedi handle more than what Jaro did.

[uncut kernel]

but yogurt man decided to cut heads off

[cedar surge]

Because they were clones they got treated like trash by most jedi

[barren ferry]

Yes, but rarely.

[uncut kernel]

not rarely

[cedar surge]

Like pong krell

[barren ferry]

Most Jedi did like their clones, and had bonded with them.

Krell was a special case.

Not to mention was trying to betray the republic

[uncut kernel]

the jedi were not military commanders

[cedar surge]

Monks with magic forced to lead armies

[uncut kernel]

and led many clones to die

with poor tactics

[barren ferry]

Yes, we know that. Doesn't affect their combat capability, they are still hard to take down. Also, Jedi can't save every clone, even if they care about them.

[cedar surge]

Werrnt the Jedi supposed to stay out of conflict anyway?

[barren ferry]

For some they simply couldn't.

[uncut kernel]

the jedi we see are nice enough but lots of others didn't care much

[barren ferry]

Lots of others also did care.

[cedar surge]

Yea that's how it went in the EU

[barren ferry]

What exactly implies every other Jedi was like krell?

[fair hazel]

two of the best jedi killer weapons:

The answer, Blaze of Glory

[uncut kernel]

They weren't krell

[cedar surge]

The clones didn't even get proper treatment after the war

They got a ramshackle planet to live on

[uncut kernel]

They were just bad commanders and generals

[cedar surge]

Have you seen what Anakin has pulled

[uncut kernel]

also why are we discussing star wars again

[fair hazel]

Well, whiplash I guess

[cedar surge]

like charhing up a 90 degree angle

[uncut kernel]

not everyone was warcrime sky man

[barren ferry]

While those weapons would be great in the hands of highly skilled combatants, don't forget that Jedi wouldn't be entirely helpless against those either. They could use force abilities against railguns.

Which also have a charge up time.

[cedar surge]

Or obi wan fake surrendering

[barren ferry]

That's the issue with Spartan lasers on them too.

[cedar surge]

Actually how would blocking the Spartan laser go?

[barren ferry]

And why weapons like The Binary Rifle or Blaze of glory would be better suited.

[cedar surge]

Its not a bolt energy weapon

[barren ferry]

The Jedi would know he couldn't block that, lol.

[cedar surge]

Its a short beam

[barren ferry]

Is the spartan laser plasma?

If so, probably about as well as blocking a disruptor bolt.

[fair hazel]

Um yeah I severly doubt they'd be able to do anything against railgun, especially the whiplash

[barren ferry]

Railguns would, again, be force pushed back.

[uncut kernel]

you know that jedi cannot win against-also not every jedi was in the sequels and stopped projectiles

[barren ferry]

These type of weapons are not new to force users, they face them time and time again.

[uncut kernel]

the sequels are kinda canon breaking, imagine if obi just force healed qui gon

[barren ferry]

Jedi have a multitude of other things to evade the railguns, such as force speed or force jump

[humble yacht]

The thing about Jedi vs Spartans is that both need plot armor to survive harrowing situations

[barren ferry]

^

[terse lava]

^

[humble yacht]

That’s why some Jedi die and others live

[cedar surge]

Doesn't that go for a lot of things

[uncut kernel]

They have severe plot armor

[barren ferry]

Jedi and SPARTANs can only hold out for so long against numerically superior forces.

[uncut kernel]

Once they are done causing a blood bath of enemies
they are done beiing useful and die

[cedar surge]

Blue team vs 100 000 grunts

[barren ferry]

Lone Wolf and Geonosis are kind of similar in that aspect, right @humble yacht

[cedar surge]

That was a thing

[uncut kernel]

if you remove plot armor blue team would most likely f a i l

[fair hazel]

I'm sorry but I severely doubt that a jedi can simply force push a hypersonic projectile headed right towards them that is airburst

[barren ferry]

Uh, probably not due to tactics.

[fair hazel]

in other words, a close miss is still a kill

[uncut kernel]

in oepn combat grunts would wreck blue team without plot armor

[barren ferry]

They have evaded and pushed rockets before. Not to mention force speed

[humble yacht]

Jedi can stop blaster fire so

[uncut kernel]

in that number

[fair hazel]

Rockets

[barren ferry]

How many grunts?

[humble yacht]

Hypersonic isn’t that impressive

[uncut kernel]

100,000

Heard blasters were sorta slow eh

[barren ferry]

Blasters actually aren't slow.

[fair hazel]

1715–3430 m/s range is pretty impressive

[barren ferry]

Shatterpoint does go into more detail on that.

And blasters and Slugthrowers are in the same ballpark in terms of how fast they move.

[fair hazel]

that's not canon sorry

again, don't equate star wars slugthrowers to halo's projectile weaponry

it's like equating a musket to an m16

[barren ferry]

I don't see how Slugthrowers would be worse.

Especially since Slugthrowers are not muskets on other worlds.

[uncut kernel]

they continue to do so

[humble yacht]

Ultimately this is going to largely come down to which universe you like more

[fair hazel]

Evidence based logic

[uncut kernel]

its going to how much plot armor each has

[fair hazel]

canon evidence that is

[humble yacht]

No matter how hard any of us try to be objective, the evidence searching is also biased

[fair hazel]

that's how these things work.

[barren ferry]

We don't exactly have any evidence that Slugthrowers are superior to or worse than Halo weapons, canon or legends.

[humble yacht]

And canonically the force is a lot like superman: as strong as it needs to be in a situation

[uncut kernel]

can we stop this endless war?

[barren ferry]

May as well lol

[humble yacht]

Sure. Just move on to a different topic

[uncut kernel]

so... 500,000,000 grunts vs 100,000 jackal snipers

[barren ferry]

H2 jackal snipers?

[humble yacht]

Beam rifles have piercing so

[barren ferry]

Or H4

[humble yacht]

Snipers

[uncut kernel]

yes

[barren ferry]

Halo 2's stomp them all

[uncut kernel]

h5 grunts and every 100 is a goblin

[barren ferry]

How about we talk about the people who genuinely think Elites are worse than marines

[uncut kernel]

Yes, i'd say 1 elite could probably killa group

[cedar surge]

At close range nope

[uncut kernel]

of 4

[cedar surge]

At long range its equal

[barren ferry]

A single elite minor can take out a squad or two on his own quite easily

Lol it's not, plasma weapons are one hit kills on marines.

[uncut kernel]

not one hit

[cedar surge]

Physical superiority goes down when you at a mile away

[humble yacht]

You know

[cedar surge]

Most of the time yea

[uncut kernel]

probably 10 rifle

[humble yacht]

Brethren Moons > graveminds

[barren ferry]

10 shots?

In lore it's one hit.

They only take that many in gameplay.

[uncut kernel]

on unarmored people

[barren ferry]

Unarmored or marine armored, it's one hit.

[cedar surge]

Higrunt ni

No

[barren ferry]

Not even MJOLNIR can take 10 plasma hits without shields.

[uncut kernel]

Wait i think it was 2 shoot

[humble yacht]

People like to talk about how cool the pre-retcon Keyminds were

[cedar surge]

In lore plasma is absolutely deadly

[humble yacht]

But those planets weren’t mobile

[uncut kernel]

2 shots to kill with the thingies

[barren ferry]

One plasma pistol bolt manages to breach sam's MJOLNIR.

It would definitely one hit kill a marine.

[uncut kernel]

2 rifle shots

to easily kill

[barren ferry]

A single plasma rifle shot would kill them, probably 3 if it's an ODST.

[uncut kernel]

2 would probably be surefire kill

[fair hazel]

It depends which armour and where

A plasma bolt may or may not be survivable

[barren ferry]

If it's standard army trooper armor, the marine dies in one shot

[fair hazel]

As for Spartans, well they have great endurance.

[barren ferry]

It can cause 3rd degree burns just by near misses.

[cedar surge]

Also a HW marine manages to live with a giant needle from a needle in his back

Even managed to get to cover

But that ain't plasma

[fair hazel]

But, it's not like the mark IV they had simply remained the same. As time went on, for instance take what they survive in the shadows of reach

[uncut kernel]

its for gameplay purposes

[fair hazel]

improvements were made.

[cedar surge]

No

It was in a cutscne

[barren ferry]

That MJOLNIR still offered more protection than army Trooper armor.

Or marine armor.

[fair hazel]

There is a chance of survival, there is a chance of death.

[barren ferry]

If you're hit center mass, essentially none.

[fair hazel]

There are different BDUs

[barren ferry]

SPI armor is more protective than any type of ODST armor, even that can't take 10 plasma rifle bolts.

[uncut kernel]

I'm talking about in-game marines are TANKS

[barren ferry]

I'm talking lore, not in game

In game has marines being physically better than elites stat wise, which I find BS

[fair hazel]

Plasma in halo is, very devastating.

[cedar surge]

Well in game they are supposed to be your allies

[barren ferry]

In my modifications anyway, I made it so that Plasma rifles one hit kill marines while two shotting ODSTs.

[fair hazel]

I feel like people tend to overestimate blaster while understimating halo plasma in general. Probably due to gameplay too, but gameplay is gameplay.

[barren ferry]

I thought we moved on from that lol

[cedar surge]

Rex got shot right next to the heart by a sniper blaster and lived

[fair hazel]

A marine could probaly survive a plams shot with treatment though, depending

[barren ferry]

Anyways, back to marines vs plasma

[fair hazel]

what about with rumbledrugs

[barren ferry]

If the marine doesn't get hit anywhere vital, best case scenario he is severely incapacitated

If he gets hit torso or head area, he's literally toast.

[fair hazel]

Braid did get very lucky when he was hit by energy sword

[barren ferry]

When was that?

[fair hazel]

Midnight in the heart of the midlothian

[humble yacht]

You know, if marines had beskar armor, they’d be safe

[barren ferry]

Eh, not really

[humble yacht]

Lightsabers are plasma

[barren ferry]

Beskar has its weaknesses, which is blind spots

[humble yacht]

I’m talking direct blasts

[barren ferry]

Some areas might be immune, but your neck isn't.

[humble yacht]

Obviously any armor has weak spot

[barren ferry]

Well true, but the wearer can get unlucky.

[humble yacht]

But that’s not what I’m talking about

[barren ferry]

I am also skeptical if Beskar is fully immune to plasma.

[humble yacht]

So the lowest temp plasma is around 20,000 F

Melting point of titanium is about 3000 F

That means beskar needs to get 10x hotter than steel to be cast into ingots

[barren ferry]

Since Blasters and lightsabers are plasma, they would be overall safe

Until the elite got close.

[humble yacht]

It’s actually pretty impressive that mandalorians could get forges hot enough to work with beskar

[fair hazel]

well beskar does seem to get hot with too much contact and probably would melt as is demonstrated...

[humble yacht]

UNSC should develop technology to disable the electric field that maintains the shape of energy swords

[fair hazel]

but for some hits it seems fine

[barren ferry]

still pretty tedious to forge it

which is why it was often recycled.

[fair hazel]

they don't have nanobots to shape it

[barren ferry]

star wars does have nanobots actually

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Nanotechnology/Legends

[humble yacht]

Imagine an elite swordsman charging you and you press a button and their sword explodes into a plume of hot plasma in their face

[fair hazel]

"Nanotechnology was technology nanoscopic in size. Some examples in the galaxy included nano-droids and nanoexplosives."

only canon info it seems there.

[barren ferry]

On the subject of marines, how many bolts can ODST armor take?

[fair hazel]

i was referencing mjolnir's nanobots which can be used to repair and reshape

kilo-five trilogy sheds some light on this

was it three?

[barren ferry]

about 2-3 plasma rifle shots before they die i imagine.

[humble yacht]

Plasma bolts still don’t make sense

An energy sword I can understand because the handle can produce the field that shapes the plasma

But a plasma bolt should just disperse upon leaving the rifle

[fair hazel]

actually 3 shots

the ODST was able to take on 3 shots in the back

[barren ferry]

plasma typically has magnetic fields too.

[humble yacht]

Generated from what

Like with the sun, it’s size is what holds it together

But a plasma bolt from a plasma rifle does not have the mass necessary to keep its superheated ions together

Especially not with greater gravitational forces acting on it

[barren ferry]

i think its magnets inside of it.

[humble yacht]

That doesn’t make any sense

A plasma rifle doesn’t fire pieces of metal

[fair hazel]

An unknown mechanism

[humble yacht]

Obviously

That’s why it doesn’t make sense

Plasma bolts in space are a little less offensive to my sensibilities since space is a vacuum and there are no particles between the plasma bolt and it’s target

Tho arguably the coldness of space should deplete the energy of plasma faster...

[barren ferry]

"Plasma weapons contain and guide the plasma in the form of a single bolt, beam, or continuous stream. Plasma is stabilized using magnetic fields. Without the field, the plasma dissipates too quickly to be of any real use. The field controls and contains the plasma, without interfering with firing."

[humble yacht]

Exactly

So where does the field come from

Never heard of a remote magnetic field

[heavy crescent]

never heard of a controlled magnetic field?

anyway covvies found out how to manipulate gravity from forerunner tech

[humble yacht]

Controlled is one thing

A magnetic field without a source is another

[heavy crescent]

they do have scources?

inside the barrel of the gun in the field generators

[humble yacht]

That would only explain the bolt maintaining its shape when near the gun

Magnetic fields decay as you get farther from the source. And plasma rifles are tiny, they probably don’t generate large fields

Yet plasma bolts go on forever until they hit an object

[heavy crescent]

they are formed and stabilized inside the gun as stated before

into a semi solid

[humble yacht]

Where does it say plasma rifles fire a semisolid bolt

[heavy crescent]

it doesnt

anyway its science fiction, forerunners had more tech than humans and greater understanding

[humble yacht]

Plasma rifles are covenant technology

[heavy crescent]

thus it is feasible that the generation of all this stuff is possible we havent discovered it yet

cove got most of its tech from forerrunners

[gilded mason]

For plasma rifles, at least, Sangheili created them without Forerunner tech

[heavy crescent]

grav tech was forerunner though wasnt it

[gilded mason]

Though they're an enterprising bunch, I'm sure they figured some exotic thing out to make it work.

[humble yacht]

Obviously sense it’s technology beyond our understanding, it literally does not make sense

Because sense is based on what we know

[gilded mason]

Nope, Sangheili didn't use Forerunner tech for that either

[heavy crescent]

is there a page on the wiki for what they repurposed?

[humble yacht]

Halopedia says plasma rifle was a combine effort of forerunner, sangheili, and San Shyuum tech

[gilded mason]

Modern rifles

For earlier versions, it's all Sangheili

[heavy crescent]

oh no they did find out grav from forerunner

from the wiki:

Covenant technology has been often described as more imitative rather than innovative,[96][97] as they are based largely on mimicry and reverse-engineering of the leftover Forerunner artifacts they have discovered. Such examples are their exceedingly accurate slipspace navigation, near-instantaneous interstellar communication, the manipulation of extremely high volumes of plasma energy from sublight travel, short-range translocation of matter, a great influence over gravity and repulsor-based technologies,[98] and man-portable application of energy manipulation

and plasma apparently

[gilded mason]

The probably expanded on their grav tech using Forerunner stuff, but they figured out out to great effect beforehand

I'll post a quote

Baroque stone ruins lie atop an advanced complex dating to the earliest period of Sangheili interstellar expansion. The San’Shyuum Prophets and their Ministries ruled Sanghelios for millennia, but the fortunes of the Sangheili waxed and waned long before the Covenant’s formation. In an age now forgotten this remote sanctum was a lush garden and the home of towers of glass and steel used to launch the first Sangheili interplanetary probes. But when the planet’s climate shifted and the secrets of antigravity were discovered the towers fell into disuse and eventually eroded away, forgotten in the rush to the stars.

The War of Beginnings came and went before the shadow of buildings once again fell across this land, as warrior ascetics seeking a return to ancient traditions built their homes and houses of knowledge and training in what was then a desert. Now, as if a cycle was turning, their fallen temples and cloisters lie crumbling in the hot winds, and strange new structures plant themselves on the bones of the old as life blooms in the hills.

[humble yacht]

-_-“

[gilded mason]

What

[humble yacht]

Wall o text

[gilded mason]

There there. It'll be okay

It's just saying that they discovered anti-gravity long before they fought the San'Shyuum

[heavy crescent]

no its saying the old towers fell now that they had antigrav along with space travel

they were forgotten in the rush to the stars

""

[gilded mason]

The War of Beginnings came and went before the shadow of buildings once again fell across this land

That means
Probes -> antigravity discovery makes it unused -> War with San'Shyuum began and ended -> buildings finally expanded there again

[heavy crescent]

they dont specify that the antigrav came before the war

they just say that the towers stood a long time ago

and after antigrav they fell

[gilded mason]

It has to, since Sangheili had slipspace travel and about 70 colonies before the war

[ocean ibex]

How did the San Shyuum have the numbers to fight a full scale conflict against the sangeheili

[heavy crescent]

slipspace =/ antigrav

[heavy crescent]

recruited others didnt they?

[gilded mason]

But when the planet’s climate shifted and the secrets of antigravity were discovered the towers fell into disuse and eventually eroded away, forgotten in the rush to the stars.

The War of Beginnings came and went before the shadow of buildings once again fell across this land

This sounds pretty definitive

[heavy crescent]

i dont know

the gap is certainly not definitive

but i guess youre righgt

[gilded mason]

Sorry ya don't see it. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

But oh well

[thorn flax]

why are plasma rifles called rifles?
they are not rifled
and the carbine has a longer barrel length than the plasma rifle therefor it should not be a carbine

[gilded mason]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[thorn flax]

its weird

[cedar surge]

The Shan shyum has thousands on the keyship

Remeber its pretty big

[terse lava]

15 km tall

[unique rune]

The implications of the T-51/57 being called a carbine are mildly amusing to me.

[main hill]

I kinda doubt the Jedi moving at 200 mph thing considering the Mandolorian just started using ballistic weapons (Slug throwers) to combat the Jedi and it was effective

Shotguns are the best weapons to use against Jedi because they can’t dodge its projectiles and they can’t block it either

[fair hazel]

sangheili secretly used forerunner technology

[main hill]

They did

Sengheili scientists

[fair hazel]

oh you replied to an old comment i see, but yeah that's not even canon so

[gilded mason]

Yeah. Though those scientists only shared their discoveries after the Elites already came up with the other stuff on their own, if you were saying that in response to the discussion I was having.

[main hill]

Wasn’t the invention of the Plasma rifle extremely controversial for the covenant

Like the prophets were against it or something

[gilded mason]

Nah. They were just against any changes they didn't authorize, from what I remember

Though even then, when prominent Sangheili did it anyway, all they did was sputter.

[main hill]

Lmao

I don’t understand why the Plasma rifle has largely been replaced with the storm rifle

[gilded mason]

Probably just 343 trying to explain gameplay

"Yeah, uh, you see our design for the plasma rifle analogue because, uh..."

[main hill]

The way I see the Storm rifle shoulda been like almost a plasma LMG, meant for suppression

While the plasma rifle, with a slower rate of fire, would be more accurate and have some more range

[stable flower]

I see the Plasma Rifle as a PDW, whereas the Storm Rifle is an assault rifle.

[terse lava]

Not a bad analoge

Yet somehow the Jiralhanae varient is still around quite a bit

[next fox]

How powerful is a lasgun compared to the standard Ma5

[paper coyote]

Holdup...

Why dont they just roast the flood alive? I mean, the metal can surely withstand those temperatures but the flood cant. The forerunners. I know they had the tech for it. And also....if normal fire was effective against it, why not just flame the place? You have energy shields, you have hardlight stuff. What are a bunch of tiny flames gonna do to forerunner tech?

Obviously, thinking scientifically about the flood. They are going to need some form of energy to move. Sentient life may be food in a sense but how do combat forms and such replenish energy? They dont eat they dont drink. So i think that narrows it down to either a sort of internal chemical reaction happening to provide it with energy.

They must breathe in some sort of molecule or something

I think i get it! So yknow how flood make biomass? And they use that biomass to transform the atmo?

So maybe the biomass emits something into the atmo for all the flood forms by taking some of the material its attached to or something.

[ocean ibex]

The flood don’t affect organisms on a molecular level

[paper coyote]

Im talking about how flood forms would get energy to move

[ocean ibex]

Not even close, take an m4 carbine, remove all of the recoil, make it so it never jams, and give it 50 bmg rounds, and you’ve essentially got a lasgun, it would be deadly by halo standards, only reason it looks weak in 40k is cuz it’s competition is literally automatic RPG launchers, weapons that tear through the fabric of reality, and weapons that destroy you to the molecular level

[ocean ibex]

They’re not alive

[paper coyote]

Nani

[ocean ibex]

The host is long dead

[paper coyote]

Well actually

[ocean ibex]

Pure forms aren’t sentient

[paper coyote]

If you look into one of hiddenxperias things youll find out the host can still be alive

Also, something doesnt need to be sentient to be alive

[gilded mason]

They're basically in a horrible, horrible "hell"

[ocean ibex]

^

[gilded mason]

With limited awareness while the body is still useful

[paper coyote]

And arnt they all connected to the gravemind via magical flood wifi anyway?

[gilded mason]

Yeah

If there's a local one, at least

[paper coyote]

Also, even if they werent living, things dont just magically move without energy

Stimulus=simulus

[gilded mason]

So yeah, best to not get infected while there's a Gravemind around, unless you want to spend an eternity in the Flood hivemind suffering.

[gilded mason]

maybe it's...

Neural Physics

[ocean ibex]

A host’s knowledge is permanently fused with the gravemind even if it’s destroyed

[paper coyote]

Yeah but yknow energy. How da brain gon send signals to da body ta move they aint got no chemical reactions given dem da energy dey need ta do dat?

[gilded mason]

Neural physics

[paper coyote]

So your saying the magic flood wifi gives them energy?

[ocean ibex]

Yes

[gilded mason]

Yes

[paper coyote]

Impossible. Thats not how the light spectrum works. Or light quanta particle wave duality chart thingmajig i should say.

[gilded mason]

Neural physics is almost literally magic.

[carmine sleet]

Jazz hands Space magic

[paper coyote]

Neural physics is just electrons passing to and fro in your neurons and also some photons for vision i guess or something

[gilded mason]

We're talking about the term used for space magic within Halo. Not actual physics going on in neurons or anything.

[paper coyote]

Waves are incapable of spreading such a vast amount of energy to allow flood forms to move.

[ocean ibex]

It’s space magic

Just roll with it

[gilded mason]

^

[paper coyote]

The only things waves do is pass through a medium, not transfer physical energy to it in the classical mechanics sense(quantum mechanics word)

My theory stands that it must be from the biomass emitting something

[humble yacht]

What? The whole principle of railguns and coilguns is that waves move an object

[ivory fable]

no its just mind space magic that humans cant understand so whats the point in trying lol

[coral siren]

Does Arbiter believes in any religion anymore?

[ivory fable]

Don't think ao

so*

Definitely not the great journey

[main hill]

The only reason that one guy was still alive was because it was a really old infection form

Most people are killed when infected

[west hearth]

yeah

but being killed is probably better

[main hill]

Aight

Plasma caster or plasma launcher

[versed helm]

I may sound stupid but is master chief really a mutated cat?

[main hill]

No...

[versed helm]

Ok cuz I saw in lucid dreams of Xbox

And I was surprised

Imagine seeing a cat in master chiefs armour swinging the hammer in a horse of grunts, and that cat meowing in terror

Wait this should be in spoilers

Do ODSTs receive any form of biological augmentation like the Spartans or no?

[carmine sleet]

Cheif is definitely not a mutated cat, that was just the weirdness Taika Waititi is known for because he was hired to make a trailer for Xbox

[carmine sleet]

No, ODSTs do not get any augmentations

[versed helm]

That sucks

[carmine sleet]

Not really, it's not something that's often done in the Halo universe

Sure with the S-IV program, augmented soldiers are more common but they're not going about augmenting every soldier because that isn't the most resource efficient thing to do. Not to mention the fact that there's a whole bunch of morale issues surrounding older Spartan programs

[main hill]

They have slight augmentation, only stuff that makes them have more endurance and can last longer without food or water, and that’s about it

Nothing crazy

[carmine sleet]

They don't have anything like that

[versed helm]

Don't all soldiers in the UNSC have some form of neural interface?

[carmine sleet]

They get specialised training and gear, no augmentations to make them stronger or last longer

[main hill]

You right I thought I heard somewhere that ODSTs had slight augmentation

[carmine sleet]

Whoever said that is wrong

[humble yacht]

Yes they get a brain implant but for most soldiers it’s just an IFF tag

Only officers get more advanced implants. And Spartans, of course

[nimble fox]

The Neural Interface is what allows most soldiers to interact with their hud and stuff as well as IFF. Spartans have a more advanced one because they need it for the MJOLNIR armor. Officers probably have an advanced one as well just not Spartan Advanced since they need to have more info and all.

Thats just my understanding of it

[vague scroll]

tank drivers are known to also receiver their own particular neural interface type

[versed helm]

Yes

[versed helm]

He's Jewish, an article i read on legitness/cookiesminenow.com said so.

I'm just joking

[coral siren]

Jewish Elite? That's some next level preaching

[main hill]

The Rhino was honestly an OP artillery piece

With a 320mm plasma cannon and a range of 100km, the thing was a beast of a self propelled artillery piece

Only reason they didn’t make more was because of a lack of resources, but the few they have left are used sporadically

[cedar surge]

They have the resources to make stuff like the mammoth but not the rhino. Though that could just be wrong reasoning

Though yea the unsc has way bigger stuff than the rhino for ground vehicles

Like the colossus

[stable flower]

Or, 343 just doesn't wanna bother using it in their media.

[jolly furnace]

He mentioned at one point after learning the truth of the Forerunners to Sangheili that the gods had not abandoned them

So it seems he does still have some belief of some kind in some deities

As to Flood, they are made up of FSC which Mythos or Warfleet I think said is also made of Neural Physics at its foundation so I think we can probably explain all things regarding the Flood that is unexplainable by science as being due to to Neural Physics

[carmine sleet]

The reason is that the Rhino was likely not worth the resources and funding invested into it while the Mammoth, while being a much larger vehicle yes, was much more worthwhile to make. Plus, it's quite likely that we've not seen Rhinos because they've just not been in the parts of the universe we've explored in more recent years. You can't have everything show up everywhere

[main hill]

I think the problem is that the Rhino uses plasma.

That’s why it’s hard to get resources to make em

Even now in the Halo universe the UNSC really doesn’t use plasma based weapons

[sudden bear]

Hi guys I have a question. What exactly are the origins of the flood?

[carmine sleet]

Cosmic space dust created from the corrupted forms of the Precursors after they fought with the Forerunners. Said space dust was then used by ancient humanity on their pets to more easily domesticate them

[sudden bear]

So the pets become corrupted as well and formed the flood?

[carmine sleet]

Didn't need to tag me

[humble yacht]

The pheru did not become the flood. There are a few steps between feeding the dust to the pheru and the flood first appearing in earnest

[barren ferry]

yes, but thats only so they can interact with their HUD and IFF. it doesn't enhance their physical capabilities or anything else.

[paper coyote]

ol sarge johnson had some sort of spine implant or something that helped protected him from the flood

[humble yacht]

no he didn't

[unique rune]

no

he was just good at doing the shooting and running thing

[humble yacht]

back in the days of the novels The Flood and First Strike, Johnson's immunity was first attributed to Boren's Syndrome and then later his Spartan 1 augmentations, but that was retconned by Joe Staten himself

[pale zephyr]

Wait, when?

[humble yacht]

long ago

[pale zephyr]

Huh. Seems like an odd retcon.

[gilded mason]

Nah, makes sense

Really devalues the Flood if there's an actual immunity out there that can be made

[humble yacht]

In a 2004 interview, Staten said that Bungie could and would retcon book stuff they didn't like: http://halostory.bungie.org/staten102204.html

and they did just that in Breaking Quarantine

(thank you Halopedia for the references)

[stable flower]

Bungie really didn't like outside lore.

[fair hazel]

and yet a lot of stuff was taken

[jolly furnace]

Bungie would put in little easter eggs from EU every now and then but for most part kept their games seperate from EU and told the story they wanted whether it contradicted EU or not

[versed helm]

If the UNSC ever discover that Jerome is still alive, do you think that he could be re-purposed to train Spartan 5s?

[gilded mason]

Spartan 5s?

And nah, he doesn't really have much to uniquely offer

[versed helm]

I am talking about a hypothetical situation in the future.

[gilded mason]

All he is, is a young S2.

[versed helm]

Yeah, it will probably take a while for the UNSC to discover that the SoF was never lost.

[cedar surge]

Plus the S4s are still a fesh generation

[versed helm]

I should have stated that this hypothetical situation was on the brink of the S4s' retirement. Jerome could easily have been sleeping inside of a cryo chamber in the mean time.

[unique rune]

That... sounds like a waste of a perfectly good Spartan-II.

[vague scroll]

remember that when Kurt was chosen, it was rather a matter of convenience - you don't need Jerome specifically to run any new S-III program 2.0. But on that note, I don't really see the viability of it as a story concept. Plus, I got to ask what a S-V program would even look like. In my time with fanfiction, the most viable 'different' idea that I've heard was proper clones of the S-IIs being used. Though that's more in the way of following up with the tradition (except S-IVs) of having Spartan programs with some kind of ingrained tragedy to their development.

another idea I could see for a S-V program was perfecting the Ilsa Zane proto-SIV project but I'm not even sure most of the community recalls Ilsa Zane that much which is unfortunate as a cool antagonist archetype that doesn't really get much opportunity to receive nuance or a unique story outside of being a crazed frankenstien rebel/AWOL supersoldier on a short leash

[versed helm]

You mistook me for being a creative person. I don't really have a "template" in mind for the next generation.

[vague scroll]

fair 😛 and no harm though I think you're doing yourself a disservice by claiming to be not-creative. Everyone's creative, its just a matter of dedication of interest.

[versed helm]

I disagree.

[humble yacht]

I want isla zane to come back as an antagonist

But with some MJOLNIR of her own. Maybe Bucaneer armor since it’s like bootleg Mjolnir

[vague scroll]

that would be a cool idea, or maybe Shinobi but I prefer Buccaneer as well for her - that said, she technically doesn't need it given the pretense from Initiation, her body is apparently the equivalent of MJOLNIR which is a wicked idea in its self... if a bit weird

[cedar surge]

If she got Spartan armor wouldn't that mean she just demolish everyone who comes her way

She already is as powerful as a suited spartan

[stable flower]

Not a fan of the Banished's anti-humanism. Pretty forced imo.

[main hill]

They actually have humans among their ranks

[shut dew]

Still thinking the "dealing with human criminals" line was a red herring, calling it.

[main hill]

We don’t se em

They deal with human syndicates

[gilded mason]

Not anymore, apparently

[main hill]

Really?

Was that retconned?

[gilded mason]

Shadows of Reach seems to have retconned it

[main hill]

Oof

[gilded mason]

Pretty disappointing

[main hill]

Yea

[shut dew]

Show, don't tell in that case. We were told in Halo 5, and heard over comms, that there were now female Sangheili troops but we never got to see even one in-person.

The Banished are now Covenant-but-not-covenant-but-kills-humans-anyway so it's too late now

[gilded mason]

It was like the one interesting thing about the Banished for me lol

[shut dew]

Well, every non-human faction except SoS inevitably goes back to their in-game stereotypes after all

[main hill]

The banished are a mercenary group

[cedar surge]

Well every covenant faction

[main hill]

Make em act like a mercenary group

[cedar surge]

Turns out Atriox is looking to make his own empire

And he hates humans even though he should hate elites in the same way?

The "humans killed his brute allies" goes with either

[main hill]

Yeah

They really shoulda stayed with the humans in banished it just would have made sense all around

Ngl

[terse lava]

Yeah

[cedar surge]

And Atriox was all "nobody will be forced to fight in the banished"

[main hill]

Rather than now just being like “their the covenant but not really”

[cedar surge]

Ignoring the grunt and engineer slaves

[main hill]

Which is essentially what happened to Jul Mdama in the books if you think about it

Jul Mdama didn’t believe in the Great Journey after the schism until he found out about the Didact

Before that it was mainly just a ploy to get more aid from Zealot groups

[cedar surge]

Banished kinda looking like red covenant with brutes in control

Even some covenant splinter factions are joining back up

Under the new name

[main hill]

Yeah it’s kind of stupid how they seemingly decided to change Atriox’s character

They could have had a very mysterious underlying story happening with whoever the Banished were hired by

But no

[cedar surge]

Comic Atriox and book Atriox could be separate characters

[gilded mason]

He was already inconsistent beforehand

Yeah that^

So he's...consistently inconsistent

[cedar surge]

The comic Atriox was smart,charismatic,didn't care for petty squabbles

And game atriox

[gilded mason]

Game/Comic/Book Atriox are all different

[cedar surge]

Well

[main hill]

Who knows what will happen

[cedar surge]

Chief destroys another ancient artifact of a long extinct civilization

[main hill]

I just hope they make Atriox a straight forward character in Halo Infinite

I really hope they do something with the fact that the Banished is supposed to be a mercenary group

[gilded mason]

Straight forward mustache twirler.

[unique rune]

can't wait for the reveal that they're actually all separate individuals that go by the name Atriox to screw with people

[gilded mason]

lmao

[cedar surge]

Atrlox

Well I don't like the banished really for Atriox

Its their arsenal

Brand new

Or repurposed and redesigned

And not another "covenant remnant"

[terse lava]

@gilded mason beard flinger

[cedar surge]

Or more annoyingly

Just covenant

[gilded mason]

👌

[cedar surge]

Huh?

[terse lava]

Hm?

[gilded mason]

Instead of mustache twirler

[cedar surge]

Oh

[terse lava]

He has a dwarf beard