Nah, the other books explicitly mentioned Elite farmers
#lore-and-universe
gilded mason
craggy sierra
Yeah
ocean ibex
Grunts never reached a tier 3 status right?
gilded mason
lol
west silo
There planet was constantly trying to kill them
craggy sierra
I wanna know the oversight process that goes into having these books written.
gilded mason
I wanna know the oversight process that goes into having these books written.
It really just feels like 343 said "Here's these plot points you gotta tackle at some point. See ya later!"
west silo
Like remember the infinity feat
That dennings used because he saw it on a wiki
And traviss ignoring lore
Yeah something is up
He also had to delete the wiki tweet
craggy sierra
I mean that was just a science fact thing that probably wasn’t even explicitly stated anywhere in lore. That’s easy to let slide. The whole “I made your major society in canon unable to fend for themselves” is a whole other ball park.
craggy sierra
Denning’s light speed mac thing
west silo
Yeah
That does lead to some horrible stuff
Remember when the infinity shot sanghelios
Well with that mac wouldn't it be like very bad
craggy sierra
Like that’d probably required a lot of micromanagement and cross referencing with their lore bible to catch. Meanwhile I feel like it’d be pretty easy when glossing through Kilo-5 to be like “hol’ up, what was that about the farms?”
west silo
And elites can't swim
craggy sierra
Apparently can’t do ladders either and that one wasn’t even on Traviss
west silo
Well that is fair
There legs would make it really difficult
And it was made by a brute
I would be really funny and awkward seeing an elite came a ladder
craggy sierra
Honestly I’m not seeing it being that much of an issue for them.
gilded mason
Actually, I don't see it being too bad either. Grim already said the "no swimming" thing wasn't canon. Perhaps this could become a bit of aged lore as well.
ocean ibex
Grim looters?
west silo
No
west silo
That guy
ocean ibex
I am grateful to be in a channel where he spoke
west silo
He also stated some of the cutscenes in Spartan ops aren't canon
Because they made the prometheans really weak
gilded mason
Yeh
grand iris
I'd hope we get a Crimson team spin-off
west silo
We don't even know who crimson are
There the most extreme case of character insert ever
That's also a problem I have with Spartan ops
The story is centred around majestic but you spend all ypur time playing as characters that are only mentioned in one of lines
toxic ivy
hey guys im new to the server. i joined becasue i wrote what i think is a pretty decnt fan fic from halo reach. i was watchin a youtube video of some peopel playing through the campaign, and on Long Night of Solace they had a marine and gave it afuel rod, then kept it alive the whole mission, until the cutscene where [spoilers] jorge dies. that made me think, what if there was still a marine on board? so i sat down and boom 4 hours later i had this. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1f2_lAV5SPU5Om1OFImq27N6b1ll6Xu3oQz-yNoK1Y6w/edit?usp=sharing
tell me what u guys think or if the link doesnt work
its the first time Ive tried writing anything really, and Im not a writer, but I am a lore nerd and this scratched an itch for me
my end goal is for this to become canon btw so if theres any plot holes i need to fix please dm me
ocean ibex
You know what halo fanon is?
toxic ivy
no it doesnt have any shipping or stans or anything
its honest popcorn lore
its inconsequential to the over arching story but it is some interesting flavor
toxic ivy
You know what halo fanon is?
no, but id guess that its canon made by fans, right?
toxic ivy
Does it involve any shipping between cortana and chief?
go read it, its safe from any and all shipping or crap like that. promis
west silo
Aka fanfiction
toxic ivy
well yes. im a fan and i wrote firction so yeah
west silo
Sorry
toxic ivy
?
west silo
It was a response to the one above that message
ocean ibex
Basically, it’s fan fiction site made by thousands of fans
toxic ivy
Does it involve a lot of edgy stuff?
no its not anything like that. theres some thinking about the charactors life, and a little combat, with minimal dialouge
it wont give u cancer
west silo
Does the combat drag on ?
west silo
Because reading 3 pages straight of shooting is hard
ocean ibex
It should be fine
toxic ivy
i only wrote 4 pages total
west silo
Okay you got me
toxic ivy
lit thanks
west silo
I'll keep an eye on it
toxic ivy
i dont have any plans to add to it rn bc its basically extended flavor text, almost. i closed it off pretty solid so there prolly wont be more of that specific story, but i could prolly find some other parts from the games to add a short story too
toxic ivy
i didnt see the #471727324895641651 channel so if this is the wrong channel to talk about the piece i wrote sorry my bad ill move over there
slim thorn
What was the last book Bungie write before 343 took over?
carmine sleet
Pretty sure that only one member of the Bungie staff wrote a Halo book, the rest were written by authors that were hired to write them. Plus, Bungie often ignored the novels when it came to anything and everything Halo
slim thorn
Yeah, the thing is there are controversy between Bungie and 343 style on Halo, isn't it?
vague scroll
@slim thorn this late in the series history? Not really, both companies had control of the Halo brand for a decade. Anyone still worried about how one company handled the series compared to the other is focused too much on the past.
@toxic ivy I’m a site moderator for Halo Fanon, I don’t mind you giving your story a shot on the Halo Fanon wiki if you want - I just ask you follow the rules and abide by our canon-adherence requirement but it sounds like you are already do so I’m not really worried.
Another place you should consider posting it is FanFiction.Net, in the Halo section. Given it is fanfiction, might be a good place for it
versed helm
So how did Jun get off Reach?
vague scroll
It’s never been explained
craggy sierra
Presumably he took a space ship of some variety
versed helm
Or climbed one of the space elevators that wasn't trashed
cedar surge
Yea there are two standing ones
versed helm
Or did any of Beta-Red survive?
versed helm
That is a shame
versed helm
When was the East African Protectorate formed?
vague scroll
there's no known formation date
it's different from the real-life British East African Protectorate though
barren ferry
Is there any armor in halo that can resist an energy swords strikes
slim thorn
Does hardlight tech can be cut down by the Energy Sword?
barren ferry
Anything that can resist it akin to how Beskar shrugs off a lightsaber @cedar surge
carmine sleet
There's not really anything like beskar in Halo
cedar surge
You best bet with energy melee weapons is energy shields
ocean ibex
Nothing in halo can resist direct strikes from an energy sword
humble yacht
Except another energy sword
ocean ibex
Even pre war unsc warships can be damaged by plasma pistols
cedar surge
Minor burns yea
cloud trellis
wait i remember there being a dissonance between halo 4 and halo 5, like you needed to read books between those games to understand H5
carmine sleet
That's actually not true. People just love to say that to try and come up with more reasons to say Halo 5 is bad
Like sure, Halo 5's story is the weakest but it's always better to use actual reasons than making a bunch up
humble yacht
wait i remember there being a dissonance between halo 4 and halo 5, like you nee...
No book explains or sets up halo 5
twin latch
wait i remember there being a dissonance between halo 4 and halo 5, like you nee...
No book or comic sets up Halo 5’s main story but they do fill in the gaps as to who the members of Blue Team and Fire-team Osiris are and why they got assigned to their respective teams.
cloud trellis
POG
now I can get down and dirty
I'll just read SoR, and just ordered the foreRunner Saga. Interested in the Bear
west silo
People just like to hate on the EU for reasons
cloud trellis
what is EU?
slim thorn
Earth Union?
toxic ivy
<@725244843995037727> I’m a site moderator for Halo Fanon, I don’t mind you givi...
Hey, thanks, I appreciate it. I’ll go take a look at those sites. (:
cloud trellis
which book was Hector Nyeto apprehended?
west silo
Who?
carmine sleet
Elites don't eat humans
cloud trellis
no reading SoR now, and it saids he got captured by spartans in an op
but I wonder why its an off scene thing
west silo
Well maybe dennings is giving us some insight on the probably third book
cloud trellis
master chief is due a promotion
carmine sleet
He declined being promoted to admiral in the days after Halo 4's ending
slim thorn
Hood was half-joking
cloud trellis
i thought liuetent was after
slim thorn
If he was dead serious, he surely already wanted Chief to wield the admiral title from the beginning
west silo
Yes
slim thorn
Uhm
west silo
The have control of entire fleets
slim thorn
Hood was half-joking to promote 117 into the Admiral
cloud trellis
oh
slim thorn
I was thinking that he wants Chief to do what he wants
west silo
Basically chief would be really out of his league
slim thorn
Palmer already said that "The chief does what he wants."
If he got an Admiral rank, he will be the highest rank obtained from all active Spartans on the service
west silo
Yeah that would be really high
cloud trellis
he should of done it
cloud trellis
he could set a world on fire
west silo
He's literally having a mid life crysis
ashen onyx
@versed helm No, Chief exited High Charity and it is possible that Phantoms shot him down and that could be why in Halo 3 Chief was crashing down into Earth.
west silo
What?
ashen onyx
If you look in spoiler chat, Ray had a question, I believe I had a valid answer?
cloud trellis
his luck skill is op
west silo
He jumped out
ashen onyx
Ah.
Sorry for the mistake, I haven't been on Halo for years now.
The last one I played was Halo 4.
I've played all of them except for Infinite and 5.
carmine sleet
Well most people haven't played Infinite because it's not out yet
cloud trellis
pepehands waitng for pc release on 5
west silo
He's gonna be waiting a long time
I really hope they do port it tho
Every halo game is on PC except it
cloud trellis
wait H5 is like 100gb 😦
west silo
Yep
slim thorn
Chief already has enough stress
If he does what he wants, then let him do what he likes. Rest, missions, etc.
west silo
I can see why they wouldn't even want to look at it
cloud trellis
my laptop is old, need to upgrade to the top 1% for h5
cloud trellis
his suit has a compartment 😄
west silo
He drinks it
west silo
Like fallout
ashen onyx
Does he actually?
west silo
The suit turns urine into drinkable water
ashen onyx
Well it's 2558 so of course they're advanced, Lol.
west silo
Naw the og suits had it before gen 3
Gen 4 was gone too soon
Except seeker
He will not be missed
ashen onyx
I wonder what happened to the meaning of Spartans never die..
Every Spartan III in existence is just..
..
cloud trellis
they don't die
they are just mia
also wait not every 3 is dead
isn't like sabre and katana team still kicking
tom and lucy
ashen onyx
I didn't mean EVERY Spartan III, I was just saying most are just dying out.
slim thorn
Not to mention there are no S-III's activity other than being the Ferrets
toxic ivy
<@725244843995037727> I’m a site moderator for Halo Fanon, I don’t mind you givi...
hey, thanks for the tip. i just posted it under the title "The Sacrifice of Corporal Aldridge".
versed helm
spiral jewel
@cloud trellis Gen 4 Mjolnir hasn't been invented yet. , As Gen 3 Mjolnir came out in 2559
gloomy gorge
spartan 4 armour is gen 2
cloud trellis
i thought s3's got some fancy gen 2 aarmor on their training on onyx
slim thorn
Then again it's weird
GEN 1 to GEN 2 is quite long while GEN 2 to GEN 3 is fairly fast
GEN 1 goes as far as Mark VI
west silo
Nope the 3s just got spi
Basically armor that's only barely better than odst armor
And that's more because it has camo ability
That really sucks
last anchor
Like, where does the urine go?
Pretty sure MJLONIR has a cathader. Either its incinerated by the fusion reactor powering the whole thing (theres a miniature artificial SUN in there), or its filtered and reused to provide water via the suits internal support system.
last anchor
That really sucks
Technically, SPIs reactive panels were more effective by the Gamma age version, and following the end of the war they've been further upgraded.
A modified version even appears in the GEN3 MJLONIR set.
last anchor
GEN 1 goes as far as Mark VI
Technically GEN1 goes as far as the single deployed OG MK VII suit worn by Naiomi attached to Kilo-5
ashen onyx
Pretty sure MJLONIR has a cathader. Either its incinerated by the fusion reactor...
But during a fight, what would they eat?
slim thorn
If they bring a rations, then they will chew the rations
west silo
There armor can also provide them with food and water
last anchor
MJLONIR stores nutrition pellets, I believe.
Also if they're secure enough to remove their helmets they can eat normally.
west silo
Plus apparently Spartans can get the same amount of nutrition they'd get from food by eating tree barks
So food isn't really a problem for them
vague scroll
@toxic ivy no problem
peak estuary
so you know that one song in halo 2 that has those voice clips played in reverse? this is what those voices say when you play the song in reverse. Any idea on what it means? https://youtu.be/3ZfTaoMBkDk
carmine sleet
More than likely just meant as gibberish originally but there are those who speculate it's meant to be Mendicant Bias or the Gravemind speaking to the player
stable flower
In Halo 4's Shutdown level, how does Didact talk to John without Cortana hearing?
humble yacht
Some sort of Forerunner-specific psychic network activated by the Librarian's tinkering
perhaps the Didact speaks through the Domain
Another question is: how did the Gravemind hear Cortana ask "What is that?" in H2?
pseudo agate
is there any lore for the odst flip visor besides looking cool?
slim thorn
I think Gravemind already answered by "Listening through rock, metal, and time."
humble yacht
That’s just rhetoric. Not a literal answer
west silo
The gravemind is physic so maybe that's how
humble yacht
It would be nice if they explained the nature of the psychic connection
humble yacht
This isn’t destiny
west silo
Well magic exist in halo
It's just pretending to be science
The precursors outright use magic disguised as science because halo is a military sci-fi shooter
vale silo
If I want to ask questions about one of the halo novels would it be better to do it in spoiler chat?
humble yacht
No
vague scroll
wouldn't it be the other way around? @west silo
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
west silo
True
But some series really likes to hammer in that magic doesn't exist
Despite having things that can be classified as outright magic
vague scroll
that's a fair assessment, I guess it really depends on what you're doing with your story
cedar surge
So the forerunners could control time in a slipspace bubble right
versed helm
Wait. That crystal Halsey found in Onyx. Did that also make a slipspace bubble? I'm a bit confused as to whether they entered a different kind of slipspace, or s slipspace bubble
west silo
It was at reach
And yes it created a slipspace bubble
It also sent chief and others who were a couple Lys from it 4 weeks into the past
carmine sleet
Halsey should send Chief on a time heist
What objects would Chief be collecting?
versed helm
Atriox's skull from when he was a kid
west silo
The keyship from the San shyuum homeworld
cedar surge
4 weeks back into slipspace?
west silo
That would change everything
cedar surge
How is chief gonna capture a keyship on his own
west silo
Before the San shyuum get advanced
Do it during there stone age era
So like some time around 100,000 years ago
cedar surge
How is he gonna jumpstart it on his own
slim thorn
It also sent chief and others who were a couple Lys from it 4 weeks into the pas...
Nah, it was a week
vestal ermine
At first, I wasn't sure of that Banished brute antagonist in Infinite, but when I learned that he was a mentor of Atriox, I now think that this brute might be more threatening. The mentor of Atriox means that he taught Atriox some of the skills that made Atriox a fearsome leader.
craggy sierra
Was the fact that he seemed to have wiped the floor with the UNSC not selling it enough for you alone?
west silo
I am more impressed by his use of talk no justu
Because Holy hell he managed to get a team of silent shadows and a elite ship master to join him with just words alone
It wasn't even threats just words
Unfortunately he seems to have forgotten that ability comes halo wars 2
cedar surge
Not just a single team it seems
And well
I think in like one of the last 3 missions he gives cutter the option to retreat
(After cutter wipes the floor with him)
west silo
More like acting like a sore loser
slim thorn
Let alone that in Halo Wars 2, he overexploit his forces
humble yacht
no, it's not that he had "too many"
he didn't use them right
he didn't take the SoF crew seriously
west silo
An old ship that is barely holding together and can only use its mac in a limited way
Okay thanks for that
It's even funnier that the ship was right over a forerunner energy weapon
slim thorn
He exploit the Ark too wide
and that creates an opening for SoF to attack him
Also, if looking on Reach's portal, should it was linked to the Ark, then it can be a problem
west silo
I don't think blue team even know it exists
They were kinda busy doing there own thing
And to be honest the banished had complete control of the ark
And complete control of its portal network
slim thorn
Nah, SoF and Banished still contested it
Not to mention the Banished lost their Portal Network
Let alone Atriox is gone
west silo
He left the game
inner basin
Atriox left the game
Atriox has been banned 10 mins for leaving too many unfinished games
inner basin
Okay okay how about this then
west silo
Just like CE
inner basin
Atriox has been banned from HW2 due to an unfinished match
gilded mason
lol
humble yacht
yep
west silo
Doesn't that mean it should constantly be telling cortana where it is
Because forerunner
humble yacht
not necessarily
inner basin
I assume there’s some reason. I just can’t think of one personally, but we know there has to be a reason bc she had difficulty tracking it down even before she found it at the end of H5 prior to their slipspace jump
humble yacht
not every forerunner thing is plugged into the domain
for a lot of things, connections have to be activated
west silo
I don't think it needs the domain
west silo
Wait
Actually it did
Remember the infinity was going to reach in realspace instead of slipspace
Because it would of given them away
humble yacht
that's because the system sensors would detect a slipspace event
west silo
Well then
humble yacht
so they exited slipspace under the cover of the sun's radiation
west silo
Is it really a retcon that cortana barely has control of the galaxy
humble yacht
huh?
west silo
Because even in 5 she gave it like a couple thousand years before she would have had the galaxy under her control
People are saying her forces have been retconed to be really small
humble yacht
people say alot of things
humble yacht
nothing in the lore has addressed the size of cortana's forces post H5. or rather, nothing has suggested her forces have dwindled
west silo
Weren't there like a couple thousand guardians that survived
And cortana is awakening them all
gilded mason
If I remember correctly, I think Witness in H5 said something about the number of Guardians under Cortana's command would ensure total control, or something like that
humble yacht
i don't think the guardian numbers were ever in the thousands
west silo
Warfleet
humble yacht
on genesis it looked like a few dozen at most
west silo
State's there were thousands
gilded mason
¯_(ツ)_/¯
humble yacht
maybe that was thousands back in the days of the forerunner empire
west silo
Remember somethings in 5 aren't an accurate
Like the way arbiter looks
Or the amount of ships at sanghelios
There were like supposed to be hundreds of covenant and SOS ships there
fair hazel
Says who
patent tree
obtuse tendon
hi
vague scroll
the phenotype of the Arbiter in 5 is not the in-universe case but that's just a matter of asset reuse
obtuse tendon
can i understand the halo lore just playing the games?
vague scroll
the starship count at Sanghelios has never been described as an issue or oversight
gilded mason
can i understand the halo lore just playing the games?
Some amount, sure.
vague scroll
@obtuse tendon for the most part yeah
ocean ibex
Only to a certain degree
obtuse tendon
i dont wanna read the books
vague scroll
that's fine, no one's going to force you
obtuse tendon
yeah ksskksksk
vague scroll
the books are fun but its not a requirement to understand the universe
they do give a true deep dive of how deep the Halo franchise is though
gilded mason
the starship count at Sanghelios has never been described as an issue or oversig...
I think I remember something about that, but for all I know, it could be a false memory.
vague scroll
I'm hazy on hearing anything like that
I do know taking the skybox ship numbers as verbatim is irrelevant to begin with when you got things like the infinitely slipspace'd Covenant vessels that arrive during the first act of Blue Team
ocean ibex
All you’ve got to understand right now is a blue exposition lady is trying to activate deadly ring pops
vague scroll
you probably need to know that a big monke controls the ring
west silo
The games will pretty much act like the books don't exist
Not like you need them to understand the story
Unless your wondering how Johnson survived the first game
humble yacht
All you’ve got to understand right now is a blue exposition lady is trying to ac...
don't listen to this, this is the kind of bad summary that confuses people
west silo
I don't think cortana's goal is to activate the ring
Have them under her control ?
Sure
Murder everyone?
Not so much
humble yacht
if she wanted to activate the rings, she probably could have done that already
ocean ibex
Does she have access to the ark?
vague scroll
no
gilded mason
I wonder.
humble yacht
she doesn't need access to the ark
vague scroll
but she has control of one if not several rings
and the activation index for one of them
gilded mason
Would Composed Reclaimers still have their "Reclaimer" status?
vague scroll
good question
vague scroll
all we need is a promethean knight to give the galaxy a nice sterile glow up
joking
gilded mason
Yeah, that seems like it would be a pointless (as far as I know) endeavor to do so.
That does remind me. I still want to see a Knight that was granted their autonomy, by accident or otherwise.
vague scroll
I wonder under what circumstances we could see that
humble yacht
the didact's right hand would probably be the closest thing
gilded mason
Yeah, that's the big question
vague scroll
we know they display limited sapience and are capable of independent operation
gilded mason
Yeah. I want to see just how much of their original self remains if they were not leashed slaves.
vague scroll
i have a friend that wrote a Promethean Knight OC that retained its conscience but the way he wrote it acts like an amnesiac Smart AI in a robot body, I'm not sure if that's the right way to depict a Knight though
humble yacht
i remember reading somewhere that the original purpose of the Composer was to help transition dead forerunners to the domain
but that begs the question: was the Composer's Abyss around for that?
vague scroll
that is definitely the case Chimera but the Librarian remarked in the same terminal that the Composer's results "soured" and failed
humble yacht
pretty sure that was in reference to using the Composer to try and reverse Flood infections
gilded mason
That was in regard to either Flood curing or going Digital -> Biological, right?
vague scroll
I would suspect that even if the Abyss wasn't invented at the time, a facility like it did exist at the time
I thought it was digital to biological conversion, that the attempts only created "abominations"
I don't think that was about the Flood but allow me to go check again in case
Checked. Chimera, it is definitely the Composer on regular Forerunners - not referring to infected hosts being tested upon.
versed helm
pretty sure that was in reference to using the Composer to try and reverse Flood...
I could've sworn that she was talking about how the Composer tried to "evolve" Forerunners by making them immune to the Flood, and that instead it "created only abominations" (like actual aberrations/physical corruption, but def not flood)
humble yacht
that's what it was successful in doing
versed helm
Later on the didact undergoes another transformation (You can see his original form in the very first terminals) and he asks his warrior servant(?) whether he's now immune to the flood, which doesn't seem to be the case, and that's when he decides to use the composer to turn his warriors into prometheans
Because they can't find a way to become immune to them, so they just "digitalize" themselves
vague scroll
"The Composer had been intended to bridge the organic and digital realms. It would have made us immortal. But its results soured. Its stored personalities fractured. And our attempts to return them to biological states only created abominations." - Librarian
west silo
Yea definitely not the flood
humble yacht
INTENT
The Forerunner Builders and Lifeworkers who designed the original Composer hoped to use it as a means of ascendance--a pathway towards immortality--by allowing old essences to be integrated into youthful bodies or set free in the endless digital expanse of the Domain. For centuries they labored in obscurity to perfect the technology, until the Master Builder took notice of their work in the waning days of the Human-Forerunner War, as the Flood began to escape and spread from areas previously contained by the humans. The Composer devices promised a way to cure the disease by sublimating the afflicted and removing any traces of the parasite's pattern from their essence. Unfortunately, efforts to this end only led to tragic aberrations and death.
west silo
Or well before them
versed helm
Which also seems strange considering how the Librarian's gift to John was an immunity to the composer itself... which was supposed to give them an immunity to the flood... But then it turns out that Sgt. Johnson (And Chief iirc) actually develop an inmunity to the flood way way before through the boren syndrome or something
west silo
Oh no
versed helm
Seriously? Wow D:
west silo
That's no longer canon
humble yacht
Everyone's beloved Joe Staten retconned it
craggy sierra
That’s not even a 343 thing. Staten did that himself.
versed helm
That's a big whoopsie, lol
vague scroll
never really was canon to begin with, given that it was a hypothesis in First Strike - it had no proof behind it
west silo
He thought it was stupid
craggy sierra
I mean it kinda is
gilded mason
Rightly so
west silo
Chief did see him get infected
versed helm
To be fair it was only a thing so that Johnson could "survive" Halo and appear in later media
craggy sierra
It kinda undercuts the flood if you’re able to begin throwing around arbitrary immunity
gilded mason
To be fair it was only a thing so that Johnson could "survive" Halo and appear i...
Though they later released a comic showing his actual escape
craggy sierra
He’s just really good at shooting
gilded mason
Ye
versed helm
Oh yeah, I think I read it
vague scroll
To be fair it was only a thing so that Johnson could "survive" Halo and appear i...
Johnson dies from simple things like falling off cliffs in Halo CE, there's really no reason he needed an explanation for survival
west silo
Its a collection of stories
versed helm
(I'm re-reading all the media bc I forgot a lot of stuff and just finished Ghosts of Onyx but yeah I think I know the comic in particular)
west silo
The halo graphic novel
versed helm
Johnson dies from simple things like falling off cliffs in Halo CE, there's real...
Sure, but back in the day I imagine they had a different train of thought
vague scroll
Bungie didn't care for what the books and external media did during their tenure
Microsoft and Staten on his own for the most part ran the EU side of things
west silo
To be honest 2 makes it seem like first strike didn't even happen
versed helm
How so?
vague scroll
that's because that was the intent
humble yacht
Halo 2 OST has a song called "The Last Spartan" 
gilded mason
First Strike has a lot of inconsistencies these days.
vague scroll
Nylund was put aside from day 1, books were secondary to game canon and simply there to sell games and make money off merchandise sales
west silo
Sad
versed helm
I know there's a lot of chronological inconsistencies and they just go with "it's slipspace stuff"
vague scroll
the fact that the Halo novels were any good at all is impressive
Nylund wrote Fall of Reach in 7 weeks simply to meet a deadline
versed helm
But I personally like all of them and find them interesting and meaningful regardless of their impact on the games
vague scroll
in the 343i era, we've seen books and other media raised to equal status with the games
the merchandise has as much impact in the lore as the games themselves
west silo
Even toys are canon
versed helm
How so? I don't think any book/comic was that much relevant to uh, say, Halo 5 lol
west silo
They can't just get put aside
vague scroll
Halo 4 was built on the backbone of the Kilo-5 trilogy and the Bornstellar Trilogy, and the Forward Unto Dawn film
craggy sierra
Even toys are canon
Yooo the johnson battle mech is canon?
vague scroll
no @craggy sierra
craggy sierra
sadness
vague scroll
but the golden limited edition master chief by mattel is
versed helm
Halo 4 was built on the backbone of the Kilo-5 trilogy and the Bornstellar Trilo...
I don't know about that, I mean... What relevance does Kilo Five have to H4? Directly, I mean. And the Bornstellar Trilogy, well, it mostly introduces the Didact and expands on 343's background, but... that's it?
vague scroll
Wait there is a golden chief armor?
nah, the lore it gives is just that the people of New Mombasa during the city's rebuilding dedicated a status to the Chief made of solid gold after the war
part of Project Rebirth
vague scroll
it explains how Chief and his friends got back to Earth @west silo
that counts enough
versed helm
Yeah
west silo
Stop killing my point
vague scroll
@versed helm Jul 'Mdama and Serin Osman were introduced in Kilo-5, major characters in Halo 4: Spartan Ops - Jul gets the first terminal in halo 4 dedicated to him
vague scroll
Stop killing my point
can't stop won't stop 😛
versed helm
<@456226577798135808> Jul 'Mdama and Serin Osman were introduced in Kilo-5, majo...
Hm, true.. But now that I think about it, none of those characters are even mentioned in-game, they're both exclusive to Spartan Ops...
west silo
Basically books were never essentially to understand the games
versed helm
I mean part of the main campaign.
vague scroll
and Jul is in the main campaign
west silo
Its just a myth that people came up with
vague scroll
as I said, the first terminal
books aren't essential but they give a lot more depth to what is often missing from the games
vague scroll
why is Buck not an ODST and not with Dare or Alpha Nine? Here's two books to answer that question.
west silo
Ehh just one book really
vague scroll
But not essential as people like to claim
sure I won't dispute you there
vague scroll
Bad Blood does have at least some relevant points to why Buck is also split off that New Blood misses but they are kind of irrelevant
vague scroll
like explaining what drove Buck to Osiris, that only got addressed in Bad Blood and in the Halo 5: Limited Edition
New Blood ended with Buck essentially saying 'me and Romeo need to stick together for as long as we possibly can but maybe its time we moved on too'
west silo
Wow did they really have to keep that in a limited edition of the game
vague scroll
I mostly mean the limited edition book, I forget if it was an art book or not
west silo
It reminds me of the halsey Journal thing
vague scroll
but it explained a little how he went from being the Spartan Commander on the UNSC Merriweather Lewis to joining Osiris to build up more experience, he's lost confidence in his ability to command due to his failure with A-9
west silo
Where only a very small percentage of people got the book with the pages not missing
vague scroll
yeah, there were some issues discovered for a pakistani friend of mine that the version he got was missing parts in the limited edition as well because of where he acquired it
west silo
Oof
vague scroll
instead of getting some pages on the 'notable operations' he got a version when cards were flipped over, was just repeating the prior page's text in spanish
they're not exactly a deal breaker but they are still a loss
west silo
With the whole repeated texts in Spanish
versed helm
Where only a very small percentage of people got the book with the pages not mis...
iirc the missing pages referred to some Slipspace experiments Halsey was doing with AI's and how they affected them/possibly reverted some effects of rampancy
vague scroll
eh, the running theory is when he got it, he bought it in an area while on vacation closer to a spanish-speaking country
versed helm
But idk if that someone was/is linked to the current state of smart AI's /Cortana being influenced by the domain or anything
vague scroll
not reverted, went passed
versed helm
Yeah, I guess
west silo
Didn't she also think it might have been affecting time
vague scroll
you're talking about how she stuck an AI in a probe and shoved it into slipspace for a infinitesimal amount of time an it just reached a point where it started talking gibberish
west silo
Or her memory loss
versed helm
That rings a bell.
west silo
And talking about voices in the mist
vague scroll
more in the way of being a story of 'cosmic horror' than 'discovering a cure to rampancy'
its a little creepy at least imo
west silo
Hey what a little lovecraftian horror gonna do?
vague scroll
doesn't even begin to address the morale lines she crossed doing that
vague scroll
Hey what a little lovecraftian horror gonna do?
create creatures that whisper soft nothings to you and cause you to spontaneously commit suicide and your friends don't know why
craggy sierra
Something like that
versed helm
So what happened in between 2561 to 2589?
cedar surge
Well ain't the only thing known there is that reach gets fully recolonized?
That's in a long time
gilded mason
So what happened in between 2561 to 2589?
versed helm
Well from what I looked up, not a whole lot other than some dudes retiring from military service
gilded mason
Yup
slim thorn
Not to mention at 2589 the coffin of John-117 is empty.
versed helm
Which probably means that he is not dead, at least not yet
Also, where did they film the whole Museum of Humanity trailer for the Believe ad campaign?
cedar surge
Earth
versed helm
Yeah, but I meant the real life filming location
ashen onyx
how did chief die then come back alive in 5
ocean ibex
He didn’t...
vague scroll
Chief never died in Halo 5
fair hazel
Who knows if they might retcon or do something with the memorial halo 3 ads
ashen onyx
No, in the Halo 5 trailer when he toppled by all the building debris
humble yacht
No, in the Halo 5 trailer when he toppled by all the building debris
There’s a second version of that trailer where blue teams gets him out of the rubble
spiral jewel
So what happened in between 2561 to 2589?
My guess at some point, the Created are defeated. By who or what, I genuinely don't know.
west silo
Obviously there going to turn one of the halos into the crucible from mass effect
Final choice in halo infinite will you choose to permanently kill all ais in the galaxy or become a galactic dictator just as bad as cortana
With a full price DLC having the true ending invalidating the ending of the base game
gilded mason
A Secret Third ending if you raise everybody's relationship level high enough to do a galaxy-wide Composition.
cedar surge
Orange skeleton time
west silo
Ahh yes everyone becoming screaming murder bots
gilded mason
best ending
west silo
The perfect ending
gilded mason
The ending we deserve
cedar surge
If everyone become orange bois nobody can become flood bois
west silo
Because there too busy screaming to care
west silo
The ending we deserve
But don't need right now
dusty prawn
I scream, you scream, we all scream...
because we are all trapped in the composer’s abyss, this sucks
stable flower
Lots of ways to die in the 26th-century
Get shot or blown up, get infected by the Flood, or become composed into a digital ghost.
cedar surge
Or getting tossed around lile a toy by a elite or brute
cobalt quiver
Has "Spartan, assist!" Ever been said in the books or other games?
vague scroll
or driving off a cliff, like in any century
rancid ledge
who here thinks Johnson could've survived?
gilded mason
Nope.
unique rune
hopefully no one
gilded mason
^
rancid ledge
I do but I don't
there is a chance sentinels found him and the orders from guilty spark were not in full play around the installation. but it would also kind of water down the story
gilded mason
That would be an absolutely awful decision from 343, so...
west silo
Johnson was obviously turned into a cyborg
gilded mason
Bobby Kodiak's revenge...!
terse lava
Would rather have Tragic come back
west silo
It's all fun and games until a monitor finds your dead corpse
west silo
Booooooo
gilded mason
You know you love it.
terse lava
...made me chuckle
west silo
Not enough echoes
cedar surge
If Johnson came back then the end of 3 would have been pretty worthless
Since that means basically no one died to the pulse
west silo
Didn't that already happen?
HITD
HW2
Scarifice
All of those make the halo firing in 3 pointless
I'd say scarifice is the worst offender because it made brutes survive ring blast without even giving a reason
gilded mason
It's pretty annoying.
gilded mason
Indeed
gilded mason
Though another funny thing is...
gilded mason
It’s yet another nail in the coffin to that weird-as-heck thing about the Banished not having any Jackals
That was such a weird thing to say about them, even repeated in a Canon Fodder
west silo
Itka
gilded mason
Like, it was so arbitrary
west silo
Well I guess It was just a gameplay thing
gilded mason
Yeah, but why try to make it Canon
west silo
Idk
gilded mason
(Guess they might’ve realized it was silly once they decided to make Banished the enemies in Infinite?)
west silo
I was hoping there could be some human enemies on the banished side in infinite
But since atriox's character took a 180 that seems entirely off the table
Uhh guess I'll have to hope there are some on the created side
gilded mason
But since atriox's character took a 180 that seems entirely off the table
Doing that is par for the course for Atriox. 😋
gilded mason
Such a great guy. Truly like no Brute ever seen before
west silo
Oh and one of his subordinates experiments on engineers making them savage and deformed
Literally prone to sabotaging there allies equipment
But atriox is definitely different from the prophets no sir not like he treats his forces like trash
gilded mason
Totally
west silo
Oh yeah don't one of the banished units get punished by becoming literal labrats?
The brutes grenadiers
gilded mason
Oh jeez
west silo
Man when you really look at it atriox just talks garbage
He's nothing more than a brute prophet
Minus the fancy hat
Instead he's got a beautiful beard hmmm is that where his power lies? In his beard
cedar surge
Yknow I pretty sure the covenant treated the brutes better than Atriox is treatimg his
west silo
Atriox: 40 at a time they sent my brothers to die
Also atriox: has his top lieutenant glass his own troops in his first appearance
Castor is a better brute if you ask me
Especially since he has absolutely no problems with humans
gilded mason
Ye, Castor seems nice by comparison besides having wrong ideas about Forerunners.
west silo
You think intrepid eye has something to do with the ferrets?
We know she and castor are still in contact
And that the ferrets went missing seemingly on a mission
Maybe she has them understand some kinda mind control?
Lopis was acting kinda funny
humble yacht
We don’t know if she’s currently in contact with castor
When castor was talking about her in SoR, he references a convo she had with him in previous lore
west silo
Man all this drama!!
sharp crater
Is our Chiefster a virgin?
west silo
Dennings is really on a roll
Not if we count all the covenant he's F'd over
She's always in his head maybe
But seriously no
sharp crater
Ok i guess chiefs relationship with cortana was complicated, do you think she will see the light or keep being evil?
west silo
Off with her head
ashen bone
Chief gets all the babes
west silo
But Johnson knows what the lady's like
grave summit
Sadly, sarge died like 4 years ago
craggy sierra
Ok i guess chiefs relationship with cortana was complicated, do you think she wi...
It doesn’t matter how much light she sees, she’s got a death toll in the millions now and there’s no returning from that.
sharp crater
Cortana is rampant, they just need to figure out how to get her back to the old cortana
It's like AI insanity
full citrus
They are probably just going to destroy her
gilded mason
It's for the best
west silo
Umm arbiter killed 1 billion
People
And everyone loves that guy
Except oni they just hate everyone
cedar surge
Well I mean
gilded mason
I suppose the difference for Thel would be that he was indoctrinated from birth to believe the prophets, and as soon as he broke free from that brainwashing, he has since used his power to make the galaxy a safer place. As for Cortana, she should have known better already. Even if she's suffering from rampancy, writing-wise, could she ever be trusted again?
cedar surge
Most of the opinions we heard are top people in the military
We don't know exactly how the rest of the populace took it
But cortana is different
Because she betrayed the unsc,has nearly everyone under her heel,dominates the Orion arm,and also did terrible stuff
Like her death count is safe to say is either in tens or hundreds of millions
Whole moon dead
west silo
But is it greater than a billion?
And cortana could be under some form of manipulation
west silo
But anyways I expect cortana to die by new cortana or the new ai
Why would abbadon use cortana?
Why not just do it himself?
ocean ibex
Testing humans for the mantle bla bla bla
There’s probably a reason why he just disappears
west silo
Am pretty sure abbadon doesn't care about the mantle
He was just chilling in a vault for like a couple million years
stable flower
Why do Crawlers look like dogs?
unique rune
because your own experience and knowledge of the world associates their form and behaviors with canines
slim thorn
Cortana is likely being manipulated by abaddon
I would rather Cortana submitted to logic plague theory anyway. Storing dormant inside her body and it was unleashed following her madness to power.
Just like how Didact got submitted into it and attack Fortencho
humble yacht
Lame. Also wouldn’t make sense
cedar surge
If cortana was controlled by the flood they wouldn't try to hide it
She got the units to take over the galaxy and unleash the flood already
Its just rampancy
spiral jewel
I know that a lot of them died due to various health reasons , but I wonder how many of the S-2 Flash clones managed live normal lives (probably in the single digits at least)
The only one I can think of, who had a somewhat normal life is the Flash clone for S-023 , who was wheelchair bound.
humble yacht
at least 4
spiral jewel
Thanks!
cedar surge
So the plan wasn't for the clones to die? That's just a unfortunate side effect?
humble yacht
it was a known side effect
halsey did it anyway
she knew flash cloning full humans was imperfect but she felt giving the families closure was better than letting them think their kids were missing forever
half verge
I am cheese.
gloomy gorge
I am cheese.
Then you must be silenced
half verge
ok 😕
west silo
Make him Swiss cheese!!!
half verge
Make him Swiss cheese!!!
ty
versed helm
austere stone
can we take a moment and appreciate the MA5B god what a beautiful assault rifle
west silo
Is that the reach one ?
I don't really I like it . the design is good but the weapon itself sucks
humble yacht
the Reach AR is the MA37
paper coyote
alright pro gamer time did you know when you aim the suppressor in halo 4 it lights up? It took me an embarassingly long time to realize that.
slim thorn
Is that the reach one ?
It's a Halo CE weapon that houses MA5B. Housing 60 bullets in a mag and having a total ammo of 660 (60+600 reserve)
west silo
Oh is that the one they keep using in the books but will never bring it back in the games?
vague scroll
just realized Valk responded first a long time ago, my bad
west silo
Does it still have 60 rounds?
vague scroll
it did, never will again
west silo
Too op
vague scroll
and the MA5B has appeared in Halo CEA and Wars
west silo
One of those is a remake
vague scroll
the 60 round magazine was used as that was what made sense back in the game design of that period, it no longer makes sense with the improved accuracy in later games
the SMG has replaced the MA5B's role in the Halo sandbox
vague scroll
the SMG does an excellent job because it's about balance
west silo
And when duel welding
vague scroll
that's kind of the point
west silo
Isn't the smg in 2 and 3 multiplayer garbage?
stable flower
The MA5B is outdated tbh
vague scroll
'garbage' is a subjective term
@stable flower not lore wise, it makes appearances as recent as Kilo-5 set in 2553
west silo
It's still being used
stable flower
Ohhhh
vague scroll
Halo CE is the MA5B, Halo 3 is the MA5C, Halo Reach is the MA37 (the Army designation for the MA5B), Halo 4 and 5 is the MA5D
craggy sierra
I don’t think any guns in Halo’s arsenal are technically outdated.
vague scroll
Halo Infinite is the MA40
craggy sierra
They’re all different models that are in production simultaneously
vague scroll
only ones that are outdated have appeared in the comics and Nightfall, everywhere else the weapons have generally been standard issue
the Confetti Maker, the M4D, and the MA3 are among the few 'outdated' weapons we know of
west silo
Ahh the unwieldy as hack gun
stable flower
I'd like to imagine the MA3 being the Kalashnikov of the future
west silo
It's pretty much is
vague scroll
given it's a Misriah Armories product, it's doubtful
it would be visually similar to the MA5
west silo
Are you talking the confetti maker?
vague scroll
I'm talking about the MA3
stable flower
I mean because it's common with rebels and terrorists.
west silo
Ahh
stable flower
Like the AK-47 and it's variants/derivatives
vague scroll
I'm sure the Russians like being told their gun is the Hollywood 'bad guy gun'...
but yeah I get your point
west silo
I have never seen a Russian use an AK to behonest
vague scroll
the Russian military's service rifle is the AKM
stable flower
No it's the AK-74M
vague scroll
thank you, mild correction
stable flower
But the AK-12 is being considered as a replacement
west silo
Why go down so far
vague scroll
Kalishnikov puts out a new 'AK-12' redesign almost every year at this point
stable flower
BTW there's over 150 million AKs that exist, which is a little more than Russia's population
unique rune
Why go down so far
because those numbers are by year
west silo
Ohh
unique rune
the 74 was developed in 1974
12 in 2012
vague scroll
AK-15 for around 2015
west silo
Heh is there a AK 20
vague scroll
AK-19 as of this year
west silo
Boooo
obtuse tendon
AK47 IN HALO INFINITE?
vague scroll
There's a desert eagle in Shadows of Reach, I really don't consider that a spoiler since it's not plot relevant
also MP40 lookalikes in the Halo Graphic Novel
west silo
I am surprised one survived that long
vague scroll
and a Colt Single Action in Escalation
unique rune
Probably just a reproduction
west silo
Were not 500 years into the future
vague scroll
Halo weapons technology isn't that far ahead of us
stable flower
I ask the same about the Warthog and Scorpion
west silo
Flying cars!!!!!!
unique rune
Colt still has some SAA variations listed on their website, though, granted they are out of stock.
vague scroll
it's an aesthetic choice
west silo
The gun?
spiral jewel
only ones that are outdated have appeared in the comics and Nightfall, everywher...
The M41 SPNKr is long since outdated by the events of the original Trilogy, In which the M41 wasn't Officially replaced until 2558 with the M57 Pilum , even though both the M41 is still used as of current (2560)
west silo
Or warthog?
vague scroll
both technically
Halo is something of a love letter to '90s science fiction like Alien
the technology is stagnant to that kind of idea
west silo
Wasn't the warthog a very poor logistical choice
vague scroll
though with realistic sensibilities
west silo
In contact harvest
vague scroll
Warthogs are not too different from desert buggies used by special forces in the Middle East
west silo
It's something about them being able to escape fast
Because plasma bad
At the scarifice of the passengers safety
vague scroll
the weight of passengers don't affect the speed of the warthog
not really anyway
unless you're comparing the difference between a Spartan and Marine
but complaints about Warthogs without protection is addressed in Halo Wars 2
with Forge's Warthog and other modified Warthog designs in the units
west silo
Hey it's not me
The book said it
vague scroll
west silo
I know the forges hog thing
vague scroll
hey you brought up the protection issue
west silo
Especially with people thinking it some how meant he survived
I remember the same with arbiter
vague scroll
casual fans don't really need to worry about lore
west silo
Isn't that a reason most people hated 4?
vague scroll
if they think something that's wrong, just correct it and move on
west silo
And 5
stable flower
After two centuries of usage, you'd think the UNSC would've already made a Hog with better protection?
vague scroll
I've heard a lot of complaints about the original trilogy these days but it's almost always from the lore community
they did ATP
I posted a link to one example
it's just that it doesn't show in the games because its a design asthetic
not everything has to be 100% realistic all the time
west silo
Yeah
And fans usually complain about the smallest changes
Rocket launcher
Shotgun
A pistol that was inconsistent in every games
vague bronze
I just disliked the Rocket launchers in Halo 5
fair hazel
I like the pilum
west silo
Me too
unique rune
I mean... it’s not technically a PDW, it officially is one.
frozen ice
PDW do you mean pistol-wise or SMG-wise
unique rune
The M6-series’ canonical formal name is M6 Personal Defense Weapon System
frozen ice
Do Marine visors let Marines auto aim so they don't need to ADS
versed helm
Could be a low level version of the MJILONIR HUD
ocean ibex
Yes, they have an integrated display that shows a very accurate crosshair
Depends on the model though
stable flower
Isn't the Magnum technically a PDW?
It's a PDW-caliber pistol, like the Five-seveN
frozen ice
Can someone explain the lore reason why the UNSC seemed to be out of Assault Rifles during the events of Halo 2?
versed helm
They were trying out a new kind of gun
ocean ibex
What
versed helm
But then they just improved the MA5B
ocean ibex
Can someone explain the lore reason why the UNSC seemed to be out of Assault Rif...
Elaborate
ocean ibex
Yeah no, that’s just completely gameplay, the ma5 outnumbered the br55 and it was cheaper
versed helm
dear lord i forgot that it was the brrrrr rifle
random ivy
Is there any information regarding the infection of High Charity from the view of those in the inner city?
ocean ibex
From all of the halo books I read no, unfortunately, we only heard mentions
versed helm
Stuff was clean, and then it wasn't
frozen ice
Maybe the CNN(Covenant News Network) knows.
random ivy
that sucks
I think I remember something about High Charity being pitch black once the forerunner ship left.
ocean ibex
Yeah, that ship literally powered a ship hundreds of times bigger
random ivy
having the flood attack during that time is the most scariest thing
versed helm
BREAKING NEWS
Citizens of the Inner City have reported tentacles rising out from sewers and other such crevices. Several claim that they have a Flood origin
frozen ice
I wonder if High Charity had any unggoy, jackals, sangheili, or jiralhanae in it, in the city.
versed helm
it did
ocean ibex
Bruh
frozen ice
I think there would have been sangheili and jiralhanae, but idk about the unggoy cause of the caste system there
Not counting military, just as normal citizens
versed helm
deacon unggoys, maybe
ocean ibex
The only reason the flood was able to take over high charity was because of the great schism
frozen ice
Well then ONI, I guess you did something and got something in return
ocean ibex
All of the covenant’s best warriors that were supposed to fight the flood were busy fighting each other
frozen ice
Certified ONI moment
ocean ibex
You literally see it crash on the ark in halo 3...
random ivy
but didn't master chief blow it up
ocean ibex
The ark was damaged but not destroyed, the side high charity was on was barely affected
It seems it repaired the damages based on its condition in hw2
frozen ice
They probably used Engineers or crazy diamond to fix it
versed helm
They quarantined the Ark
Why would they fix a flood infested ruined husk of a super city?
frozen ice
I mean, cause why notI have no idea
stable flower
I believe the reactor only destroyed like a quarter of High Charity.
versed helm
The rest got flooded
slim thorn
The Halo Array was unfinished, so it can only affect the flood, not the sentient ones.
gilded mason
What?
faint stone
humble yacht
Not for the people who enjoy it
cedar surge
Well there's a lot of material
Like 30 books and 9 games
Also the flood is sentient
versed helm
I guess an unfinished halo doesnt do the one blast, but just a normal, kamikaze explosion
humble yacht
except it did
Halo 2 phoenix logs confirm the gravemind was burned away by Halo's "cleansing energies"
versed helm
I guess they skittered away before the halo kablooeyed
In that case, I stick to this
humble yacht
that wouldn't really make sense, where would they have gone and why go back after?
woven stone
i have a question
im new to halo and i need to clarify some things
is there someone who can help me
humble yacht
ask the question and maybe someone who knows the answer will be able to help
woven stone
so
grim copper
Halo 2 phoenix logs confirm the gravemind was burned away by Halo's "cleansing ...
There was many GRAVEMINDS
gaunt oakBOT
woven stone
the suit is physically attached to master cheifs body right? like he cant take it off?
versed helm
....he can
humble yacht
the suit is physically attached to master cheifs body right? like he cant take i...
He can take it off
woven stone
ok
versed helm
just need special equipment to do so
woven stone
so what if
humble yacht
just need special equipment to do so
actually it's designed so he can remove it himself
versed helm
ah. i did not know that
humble yacht
it's just alot harder without the special equipment
woven stone
oh so he can take off whe he wants too
humble yacht
yep
woven stone
whats that supposed to mean
versed helm
in case the suit needs emergency repairs, he can take it off
grim copper
I mean he has no reason to do so unless he’s on the infinity
versed helm
getting it repaired is a different thing
humble yacht
Xander
if you are about to ask if the suit does something inappropriate to him
then just stop
woven stone
BUT DOES IT
humble yacht
no
boreal bane
No
versed helm
no
boreal bane
It was a faked page
humble yacht
photoshopped page
versed helm
i mean, why would it
woven stone
but that would be so cool
grim copper
Don’t ask about how it recycles his waste
woven stone
does it do that
woven stone
DOES HE POOP IN THE SUIT
versed helm
pretty much
grim copper
Kinda
boreal bane
Let's not please
grim copper
I need answers 😳
topaz wyvern
hey why can't I get that answer
boreal bane
There are some things that don't need to be discussed
topaz wyvern
but it is the lore