We barely know what they do
#lore-and-universe
west silo
ocean ibex
If the didact himself says it you can believe it
Plus human ships had better weaponry than most forerunner warships
west silo
We saw a forerunner boarding act and it did not end well for the humans
ocean ibex
The forerunners had a much better understanding of slipspace though
That’s what screwed the humans over
west silo
And would have helped against the flood
Shutdown all there means of escape
The flood couldn't shutdown FTL yet
Well as far as I know
ocean ibex
Almost every forerunner in the ecumene despised humanity even before the human forerunner war, if they found out that the humans killed 2 billion of their own people, they would be pissed, regardless of the reason
The forerunners were extremely xenophobic
west silo
Well better than the entire galaxy dying
No
They weren't
Up tight?
Acting righteous
Being jerks maybe
But they weren't xenophobic
ocean ibex
Wdym jerks? They literally ripped apart Parallel universes just to power their war machine
west silo
That haven't become galaxies yet
There dead
It's like complaining that your a murderer for cutting down a tree to make a house Because of the chance animals might live there someday
ocean ibex
Yes... that’s exactly why... they’re evil
west silo
So the entirety of humanity is evil?
ocean ibex
No, the forerunners
jolly furnace
Forerunners and humans were both racist to an extent
west silo
Yeah
jolly furnace
Forerunners looked down on every species
gilded mason
Those universes only had the potential of life when their energy was taken. There wasn't any life in them at the time of it happening.
jolly furnace
Humans were the same it seems
west silo
Exactly
gilded mason
Though the Forerunners were depraved for many other reasons
gilded mason
Like forcefully devolving humanity. That was one of the bigger things that have no justification.
west silo
I can't think of anyone more horrible
jolly furnace
Its the denial of the potential for life in those universes the librarian brings up. A crime against the Mantle in her eyes
west silo
Well they just took a player out of the game
ocean ibex
Faber is essentially all of oni packed into a person
west silo
Remember when he told them they were lucky that the librarian got there before him
And then just killed everyone
Wasn't he bornstellers father mentor?
There we pictures of them locked away in a room
empty flume
You guys know about a quote/dialogue in halo where a guy talk about how human get to space without the help of fancy forerunner technologies unlike convenants ?
I read it somewhere but can't find now
jolly furnace
Humanity did it at least twice - once prior to encountering Forerunners in ancient times and again after reseeding
gilded mason
Man, that was such a wanky HFY quote. And false, too.
jolly furnace
They achieved space travel before meeting forerunners in ancient times
and again after reseeding
No forerunner tech involved
gilded mason
I meant the actual quote
jolly furnace
As for Covies - Sangheili had space travel prior to messing with forerunner tech
gilded mason
And the part about no Covenant species being able to do it without Foererunner tech
Yeah
jolly furnace
As did Grunts I think
charred magnet
What we talking bout boys
jolly furnace
They were tier 4 in pre-Halo firing days?
gilded mason
I forget, I sadly don't pay much attention to the crabby boys
charred magnet
Ah
cedar surge
The brutes and jackals made it to space on their own
charred magnet
The jackals became space pirates and the brutesssss I don’t know much about them
All I know is they got absolutely kickstarted by the covenant
empty flume
Thanks for the answer!
Actually I probably just made it up but had to ask to be sure
Or perhaps it wasn't from halo at all
flat bone
do we have any updates on the secret glyph project from ODST
west silo
And the jackals?
The prophets just took ship that was basically there's
No species relied on forerunner tech
If you ask me the humans are more reliant on forerunner tech than anyone else
jolly furnace
Covenant were noted to plunder forerunner tech from shield worlds and other worlds and incorporate it into their own and reverse-engineer it instead of coming up with some of the stuff they have on their own.
Indeed their dominance is mostly cos of the tech
Humans only have easier access to forerunner tech but they less understanding of it then Covies do
All species built upon the discoveries of the past or those of other species
All species rely on past knowledge and discoveries to advanced further.
Scientists may consider alot of stuff from the past outdated and wrong now but they wouldn't gotten were they are now without prior discoveries and theories and work of those earlier scientists, alchemists and philosophers
west silo
So elites used forerunner tech to leave there homeworld ?
And jackals?
And brutes ?
When was that stated?
Sure the covenant relies heavily on forerunner tech because it's pretty much there religion
But the species being unable to achieve space travel without it is a downright lie
jolly furnace
No.
After covie formed, they during their history found shield worlds and stripmined them of usable tech and weapons etc
this largely contributed to their domination of space in the Orion arm
I never said they achieved space travel in the first place with it
west silo
I wasn't talking you specifically
Anyway since grunts were in the industrial age how would there civilization look with the covenant stuff
The H2 terminals made them look more like tribes men
jolly furnace
Ok
grunts? They were tier 4 prior to array firing. They didn't regain it by Covie recruitment i think
They'd probably look the same as covies do with covie stuff
west silo
I mean after the halo firing
west silo
Dimkey hoytey
So what's the lifespan of a grunt?
15 to 25 years tops?
They pretty much adults by the age of 5 to 6
Well that just got dark
jolly furnace
i dunno
They would have different ones to us
different species afterall
I imagine their lifespans are short compared to our averge given they breed like rabbits
they would need to have short lifespans to prevent overpopulation
their world's harsh environment prevented that too
slim thorn
They reach adult after around 4 to 6 years
But, the breeding rate is what we want to know itself. Pavium stated that the Flood breed faster than the grunts, so just need to take a rough rate of how fast the Grunts can breed.
Also, Grunts often ended up at a platter for those apes.
west silo
Grunts become less comedic and more sad and tragic when you think about it
stark hinge
Guys, I've been rping with my friend and in rp, he mentions something called "CGPStacPad". Like I searched for what ever that is but i get no result. Even from the wiki. Y'all know what that is?
gilded mason
A GPS/Tacpad combo, I assume
cedar surge
Like the one Carter has on his wrist?
gilded mason
Yeh
humble yacht
Jun had a GPS unit on his wrist while Carter had a tact pad, which acted as a mobile secure terminal to the UNSC battle net
you'd think in the 26th century, you'd have one device that could do both 
cedar surge
ONI decided Spartan 3s didnt deserve one
gritty portal
It was dumb buck became a spartan
cedar surge
I like odsts more
nimble quiver
ONI decided Spartan 3s didnt deserve one
@cedar surge yeah the SPI suit was low cost designed for suicide missions, so it probably didn't have a lot of nav tech especially since on most ops they dropped right at the combat zone
cedar surge
But i would say alpha none earned becoming Spartans. They survived a covenant infested city that was also being glassed and escaped on their own
While also completing their mission with only one serious injury
nimble quiver
yeah
cedar surge
They were plucked out of their companies and put into teams
I think that went for most of gen 2
Gen 1 was uniform
unique rune
you'd think in the 26th century, you'd have one device that could do both
I always thought it was silly that the GPS wasn't just a built-in feature of the TacPad
cedar surge
No gen 1 and 2 of MJNIOR
Gen 1 was there for half of the war I think then gen 2 came
humble yacht
Noble Team wore GEN1 Mjolnir, but they modified their suits
cedar surge
Huh
cedar tusk
How do Spartans store ammo without even having any pouches?
cedar surge
They have spaces inside of their armor
nimble quiver
yeah and in the book Masterchief even taped clips to his arms and chest
cedar surge
Like in legends when chief opens his ammo containers on the sides of his legs
cedar tusk
For example halo 4, a recruit style armor appears to have no pouches. How?
cedar surge
Inisde the armor
nimble quiver
yeah or its just a genuince error
they didn't want to mess with the spartan aestethic
so they just didn't add ammo pouches
nimble quiver
ofc, but not in many of the games, halo ce-3 for example
I don't think there were ever pouches on chief
cedar surge
CEA?
nimble quiver
I think so
ocean ibex
Ammo pouches are just mods for the base mjolnir exoskeleton
cedar surge
It looks better with pouches
cloud trellis
junior dome
Where do ships like the Infinity get built?
unique rune
The Infinity was constructed at a specialized shipbuilding facility in the Oort cloud.
versed helm
Im betting it got rekt in the war near 07
sand birch
The cove what war or the time that cortana took over the galaxy with transformer space owls?
sand birch
Yeah
2558
I wonder if the infinity survived the battle for whatever halo infinite takes place on
But having the crashed infinity as a location in the open world setting would be amazing
versed helm
Yes.
crude gorge
Nope he will rule both a.i and humanity
versed helm
Cortanoid
And his baby photos will be the blue screen of death with different error codes
analog frigate
i got a flamethrower next to me dawg
ocean ibex
Random question: was the sof crew informed of galactic events of the past 28 years they’ve gone missing
fringe sapphire
cinder sluice
its like to protect other species and stuf
the primordials gave it to humanity then forunner got salty
im pretty sure it also adds buffs to the species
really bad explanation of it
flat bone
Basically the owner of the mantle is responsible for tending to all the other species
it might also give them technological advansments or something idk
idk bout the second one though
versed helm
Cool
stark hinge
So if Jar 'Wattinree died, who's the tallest Sangheili now?
carmine sleet
Unknown
inner basin
Well Jar still is the tallest [known] Sanghelli [to us], just bc he’s dead doesn’t dispute that fact, but if you meant the tallest Sanghelli alive, that is unknown, like Slip said above
stark hinge
Oh, so it's unknown and yes, Xytan Jar 'Wattinree. Sorry if I made it incorrect, his name is a little too long.
west silo
Poor guy all that build up for nothing
That engineer was really stupid
It was being announced right in it's face that it was a bomb and it still decided to fix it
cedar surge
Is their urge to fix things that strong?
stark hinge
Engineer gaming but Halo
west silo
Yes
Am pretty sure they were okay with the covenant killing everything in the galaxy because then they would be free to go fix and maintain forerunner stuff
cedar surge
Wouldn't have the engineers also died?
inner basin
@west silo Jar is the simplest to remember, and most lore people know who is being discussed when that name ["Jar"] is brought up. Besides, I was multitasking while making that response :))
west silo
I just never knew jar was a part of his name
west silo
Oh no xtyan is the jar jar binks of halo confirmed
inner basin
Don't let @gilded mason hear you say that ;P
cedar surge
Xytan deserves to be clowned
stark hinge
Fun fact: Xytan is also my Sangheili name in rp lmao
west silo
Do you have a anticlimactic death?
west silo
If you don't then your not Faithful to the character
stark hinge
Haven't even died yet
cedar surge
Are you built up yo practically be a demigod and then get clowned with the most anti climatic death?
stark hinge
Nahhh, just some different Xytan who's just a Major and patting is his weakness
humble yacht
Tmw you realize a major bested Chief in single combat
west silo
Is that the guy from legends?
humble yacht
Yep. Thel Lodamee
west silo
Sounds like a discount thel vadam
stark hinge
Lol
humble yacht
It was originally supposed to be Thel Vadam but the backstories did not align
humble yacht
All elite names sound the same anyway
stark hinge
Sooo if elites with "ai" in their last names join the Covenant, do they receive the "ee" prefix or just it that way?
ruby tinsel
Noble Six, reporting in.
stark hinge
Bois, he's still alive
ruby tinsel
I am stranded on planet Reach, in an unknown year and day.
stark hinge
How's the cave
ruby tinsel
Not bad.
stark hinge
Good to hear
ruby tinsel
Also Johnson's here and so is Emile
humble yacht
@ruby tinsel please no role playing. thank you
humble yacht
anyone with a Sangheili pfp does
ruby tinsel
@humble yacht Do you play classic reach
humble yacht
what does that have to do with lore?
gaunt oakBOT
stark hinge
I love Sangheili lore
wintry remnant
ocean ibex
Also what exactly is the 'mantle of responsibility'?
@fringe sapphire it’s the biggest plot hole in halo
Theoretically modern humans are going through the mantle’s test
You need to be tier 1 in order to be tested
And we’ve got traits of a t1 species
We’ve already defeated a tier 1 threat aka the didact (twice), and now the created
humble yacht
the Created defeated us, lol
stark hinge
Forerunner lore is huge, it's pretty complex, more than Covenant lore lmao
ocean ibex
Obviously we’ll defeat them in infinite
west silo
Actually aren't being tested
Because it was just pasted on to us
I don't think the wider unsc is even aware of it
ocean ibex
Ofc they aren’t
Why would they be?
Only a few people in the entire human race know the actual history of the halo universe
west silo
So yeah I don't think humanity is being tested
Well unless the flood returns
That was a plot point in Primordium
That the flood would return to test humanity
ocean ibex
Well yeah, the flood’s return is pretty much inevitable
You can never truly defeat the flood until every single cell of the flood is exterminated
ruby tinsel
Which will never happen for a LOOOOONG time so
main rivet
The Mantle of Responsibility isn't a "plot hole".
It's not levels of a video game.
It's not a sports tournament where you get promoted or relegated.
craggy sierra
I don’t think anyone called the mantle a plot hole
gilded mason
Dannie did.
west silo
Said it was the biggest plot hole
Which is hilarious because I can't think of a time it was important to the plot in anyway
Well aside from being mentioned in 4 and the forerunner trilogy
normal shard
Reminds me of the insurrection in that way. Like, it's important but not.
normal shard
If you meant those well-armed civilians. They were smugglers, no indication of being insurrection.
ocean ibex
Well the mantle is technically a plot hole
normal shard
Yes, but I'm not talking about 1st mission
west silo
How
Is it a plot hole
Was it a retconed in ? Yes
Does that make it a plot hole ? No
ocean ibex
Like wtf is it supposed to do to guard all species, it was explained poorly
west silo
The ones on top?
gilded mason
It doesn't guard species itself. It's just a title/concept
west silo
It's basically free species dictatorship
gilded mason
Like being crowned king or emperor
west silo
It's a concept that all life should be protected by the most advanced species
cedar surge
So pretty much anybody can say they hold the mantle
gilded mason
^
west silo
If they even know about it
cedar surge
Its just those specific few who can actually back up the claim
west silo
How do they even find out about the mantle anyway?
cedar surge
And currently the only factions who would do this are the created and elites
west silo
Ehhh the elites are too busy you know killing each other
cedar surge
Hey it was cooling down before ONI stirred the pot
gilded mason
And I think that died down for the most part by the time of Halo 5
Since Thel had united many colonies under the SoS banner along with almost the entirety of Sanghelios under his rule.
cedar surge
Shouldn't have the order been done in reverse?
Get all of sanghellios under control then get other colonies
normal shard
It pretty much was.
cedar surge
Hmmm I wonder what salty faction could be the cause of this
west silo
Hmmmm
normal shard
I blame innies.
gilded mason
I wonder
gilded mason
Of course
normal shard
So Halo 4 tomorrow. I'm excited to see two cutscenes in particular again.
normal shard
Seeing humans get promethian'd was cool, and the first-ish cutscene of falling to the whole in Requiem still fills me with wonder, like it was the first time.
hole*
cedar surge
For being in two games the prometheans themselves don't have a lot of lore do they
normal shard
No, but that cutscene where the humans get massacred by the didact was just so...out of nowhere? Like, you think Cortana will save the day and instead, nope!
It was really cool and paced well imo
It's one of the few times you see Chief truly helpless. He's looking around, not knowing what to do.
But yeah, I just wanted to mention it, because I wondered what you guys thought of that section of the lore.
gilded mason
I liked that, yeah
cedar surge
Maybe its because the cast was too big?
west silo
For being in every halo media the Hunter's don't have much lore do they
Man halo sucks at worldbuilding for covenant species that aren't elites and brutes
normal shard
lmfao. I swear, every book from Halo "Hunters aren't actually one creature, they're multiple-" Yes, we know. lol
cedar surge
Pretty much established from day one
west silo
That's the only thing we really know about them
And that there psychic
But that's barely touched on
cedar surge
But its plays into the theme of the covenant
Every alien not a elite,brute,or prophet gets gutted in lore and characters
normal shard
Yep, we know that, how they joined the covenant, what kind of religious jobs they had as well as combat, the moon they're from, and an arbiter was involved.
gilded mason
i cri
cedar surge
Well there is colony
normal shard
Tbf here, it's hard to narratively do much with them. You can write a book or play from an elite's perspective etc and the other races you mentioned held a big role. If someone asked me to write some lore for the hunters, I'd be stumped, but then again, I'm not a writer so..:P
normal shard
Grunts could at least talk. lol
cedar surge
Maybe the social structure of the hunters and how hunters and lekgolo in general are treated in covenant society
normal shard
Oh, can they? See, I didn't know that.
cedar surge
And are lekgolo only considered people when they are hunters?
cedar surge
Cause the covenant use them as like AI in Scarabs and locusts
west silo
Am pretty sure they also hole it together
Since an enemy can take control of one
And the worms do nothing
normal shard
I liked the bit of them messing with the inner-workings of the Dreadnaught. Thought that was neat.
west silo
Weren't they just getting fried in there
normal shard
That was when Mendicant Bias woke up.
west silo
That's like shoving a stick into a car engine
cedar surge
Strange hobby
normal shard
They unlocked all sorts of stuff for the covenant in there.
I wanna play as a brute someday.
west silo
Play HW2
cedar surge
Hunter goliath though
west silo
You weren't specific
normal shard
That's why I specified.
cedar surge
So hitting people with a big club?
normal shard
I think it'd be interesting, to have a story from their angle in an fps.
west silo
Just play warzone with a gravity hammer and a speed boost
cedar surge
You know what I want
west silo
There are
west silo
There is a grunt perspective at least
normal shard
I feel like a grunt or jackal when I do LASO, does that count?
west silo
Yes
cedar surge
I also like how the banished is experimenting with all sorts of new tech
normal shard
Yeah, like the flood.
west silo
I like that they made hunter drones
cedar surge
Using hunter,AI
New explosive goo
Since decimus is gone who donyou think is making new tech
cedar surge
Just one t
west silo
He just needs to wear shields
normal shard
He rekt one of my favorite spartan teams too.
west silo
That is my biggest grip with the cutscene
normal shard
Same. It was a strong intro, but that shouldn't have been that easy.
west silo
They could have headshot him without the shields
cedar surge
Well he ambushed 3 Spartans who just woke up
normal shard
Exactly. They honestly could've done like 15 things that a spartan would no-doubt think of.
west silo
No when retreating
cedar surge
Plus a brute minor nearly strangled chief to death before
west silo
And Fred headshots brutes with one bullet each in the books
Want to know what weapon he used?
cedar surge
BR?
normal shard
Think about how many spartans kill chieftans in just the games. Like, why was this hard, when they 3v100'd like a bunch of elites together as a team.
west silo
We he did bring them into CQC right from the start
So he had the advantage
And there the least experienced spartans
west silo
Brutes are stronger than elites
normal shard
A lot^
west silo
And most times better at melee combat
normal shard
No way, they're raised to fight with swords. They should've killed that team before a brute would, I'd think.
west silo
1 brutes took on 4 elite council memebers at once and won
With only one injury
He ended the battle laughing
normal shard
So genuine follow-up question about this. Not trying to be sarcastic here, genuinely serious.
normal shard
In halo 2, elites vs brutes, they practically always won right before our eyes. Long-range, short-range, closed quarters etc. Was this a mechanic thing or what?
gilded mason
Talking about Brutes here?
west silo
Elites vs brutes
gilded mason
I meant who won
normal shard
Specifically the Atriox vs spartans and the spartans vs elites.
gilded mason
Bungie themselves admitted they made Brutes unintentionally way too strong and bullet-spongey
west silo
There stronger than the flood in game
normal shard
I see...Well, elites generally got wrecked, unless they had a sword. Then they wrecked face, even when the brute was mad.
west silo
Well energy sword is one hit kill
west silo
But don't sleep on elites though
High end there basically Jedi without the force
normal shard
Yeah, they did win the Schism afterall, I guess, but idk how much of that was combat skill and how much was naval tactics.
Half-jaw said it best himself. When they outnumber an elite fleet 3 to 1, it's an even fight. lol
west silo
Most likely naval
They brutes somehow lost a battle when they had a 3to1 advantage
Then again they only just got the right to use covenant ships
normal shard
True. lmao
west silo
It makes sense really the elites that have been in space and naval battles for more than 3000 years vs the brutes that just got there rights less than 30 years ago
normal shard
Genuinely, why did Truth replace the elites with brutes? He was supposed to be smart, and then...he made the biggest, most obvious dumb.
normal shard
I understood that much, but like, that'd be the least effective power-move ever.
west silo
The brutes were easier to control and would listen to the words of the prophets without question
Basically imagine having someone that would do everything you say as your equal
normal shard
I mean, I guess there's that. It's surprising though, that the brutes would be easier to control. On paper, sounds false, but I can see why. They were duped so hard by the religion.
west silo
You basically control them
To the prophets the brutes are nothing more than space monkeys
normal shard
To humans too. lol
west silo
Plus the elites were becoming more uppity
normal shard
Wasn't it just the Heretics from H2, or am I missing some lore there?
west silo
Asking more questions
Finding out the great journey was a lie
And wanting to invite humanity into the covenant
No there we others
normal shard
I forgot all about them wanting that. Also, fair enough, didn't know there were others.
Thanks for dealing with my questions.
west silo
It feels good to flex all this useless knowledge
normal shard
lol. Well, it was useful to me. I've been trying to get deeper into the lore, now that I have the ability to delve into books.
So having as many pieces of info, helps contextualize the books.
normal shard
I read Contact Harvest first, because I heard it was a good starting spot. Then New Blood, because it was shorter, and now I am on chapter 2 of Fall of Reach.
There's also a short novella I own called Smoke and Shadow, I think. So that'll be next.
Okay, can confirm that's the correct name.
normal shard
I heard it got a sequel but I don't own it.
After Fall of Reach and Smoke and Shadow (Plus sequel), what would you recommend next?
west silo
Okay after tfor I'd recommend halo first strike and ghost of onyx
There pretty much sequels to tfor
normal shard
Oh okay. I've heard a lot about Ghosts of Onyx, but I've not heard much about First Strike. What's that one about?
west silo
It tells how chief got to earth in 2
normal shard
Oh! I need that in my life!
west silo
And how Johnson got off the ring
normal shard
Also need that!
west silo
And how blue team is still alive
normal shard
I know I should care about that one, but I know next to nothing about them still, so here's hoping Fall of Reach fixes that.
Is the forerunner series worth looking into eventually? Some tell me to read it promptly, while others tell me it's bad.
normal shard
Oh okay, cool.
west silo
It's even better if your going to read the sequel for smoke and shadow
Because you'll actually know who there talking about
normal shard
Really? Huh, I never would've guessed that connection. I only bought Smoke and Shadow because I'm a little obsessed with Spirit of Fire and its crew. I love the story way more than the game itself.
west silo
Its sequel halo renegade is a full length book
normal shard
Last question; What about this book Halo: The Flood? It important? I ask because I can get that one for free.
west silo
No it not important
normal shard
Guess it explains the free part. lol
west silo
It has some great sidestorys but main plot is boring
cedar surge
Its background stuff happening in CE
normal shard
Ah, I see.
cedar surge
Yea cause its a replay of ce
west silo
Every part with chief can be ignored
cedar surge
In the book or greater lore
west silo
It's basically chief shot something with his AR
He then blew it up with a rocket launcher
cedar surge
He then punched something with his fists
west silo
And chief comes off a little self inserty sometimes
normal shard
Well fair enough. lol. Is there a better book that has the flood in it? I watched that short called Mona Lisa and I keep thinking that a book would bring that to life some more.
normal shard
Wait, which book?
west silo
The story is called Mona Lisa as well
normal shard
Oh! Didn't know that. Okay!
normal shard
lmao. Oof.
west silo
But the story is inspired by aliens
normal shard
I always thought the flood did deadspace better than deadspace anyway.
That works. Thanks so much, now I have my footing with the books, a little better.
normal shard
Deadspace is still good, but I think the flood are just scarier. When you think about deadspace's enemies, you don't get that real guttural existential dread like you do with the flood.
At least I don't.
Deadspace 3, I heard, just turned into Lost Planet. lol
west silo
Deadspace 3 was more resident evil 5
west silo
I say that as RE5 being my first resident evil game
humble yacht
I think the necromorphs are scarier than the flood
west silo
Scared of the space popcorn
west silo
Ehh the necromorphs are only really dangerous because of the mindbreaker wave
normal shard
Flood are scary because of all of the reasons.
flat bone
depends on the game, halo 3 flood are not scary. But halo 2 flood are scary
normal shard
You're not safe as a computer, a fleshbag, a forerunner-fleshbag, or even in a shield world. Even if you have 10 armies and 100 fleets of warships, the flood will come by and say "Oh, for me? Thanks." And ruin your whole day. (and life)
normal shard
Not talking about any particular game, really. Just the existential side. Like, everything they imply I guess.
humble yacht
The Necromorphs are more devious because the Markers actually influence the birth of intelligent life on a planet, driving it to create technology that can replicate the markers, and then once life gets smart and plentiful enough, the markers drive them all crazy and turn them into a celestial dead alien mouth thing
flat bone
yeah ik what you mean, but if you were someone who came into the game without looking at any external knowladge halo 3 wouldn't be as scary
humble yacht
it's like the witch from Hanzel and Gretel fattening up the children so she could eat them
west silo
The gravemind created all life in the galaxy just to consume it in the end
normal shard
In most other media, a zombie/virus/parasite can be contained. May take a lot but you can contain and sometimes even cure it. The Flood are always there though and "A thousand plans have been tried and failed."
humble yacht
no it didn't
west silo
To put them in eternal torment for alllll eternity
humble yacht
the gravemind didn't create anyone
west silo
Well it was a precursors
flat bone
In idea the gravemind
humble yacht
the Precursors created life in the galaxy but not for the purpose of eating it later
and the Gravemind is a far cry from a true Precursor
west silo
Well now they do
normal shard
I mean, now we get to conspiracy theories people have, of what the Precursors really intended.
west silo
Or at least the primordial does
flat bone
Why would the precursors let themselves die and become a parasite to kill its creations
humble yacht
Nothing in the lore suggests precursors could see the future, so there's no theory that holds weight that all of this was orchestrated by the precursors and is going exactly as they planned
humble yacht
It's even said in the Forerunner novels that the dust that would eventually become the Flood was originally intended to turn back into Precursors
but over time the dust was corrupted, unintentionally
normal shard
For all we know, the Precursors just dipped to another galaxy or universe and said "Enjoy our dust, guys, imma head out."
flat bone
How does dust get corrupted
flat bone
then my headcannon is proven wrong
humble yacht
how does canned food go bad?
normal shard
Dust can have a lot of things happen to it on a microscopic level, so shrug.
I mean, how does dust make us sneeze irl, and how are humans allergic to dust irl? Stuff happens..
humble yacht
because of what real world dust is
normal shard
Exactly, and we're talking space dust. With properties we don't know or understand.
humble yacht
the term "dust" used for the desiccated precursor remains is just for convenience
flat bone
If it was intended to re-create life it probably had a biological aspect to it
humble yacht
it's for visualization purposes, a literary device. it's not literally dust
it's dust-like
normal shard
Not just space dust we don't know or understand, but dust that was created by a race of beings beyond even the forerunner's understand of metaphysics. Like, who knows what they did.
"-either went into suspended animation or transmuted themselves into dust that would regenerate into their past forms at a later time.-" Took this from the flood's origins on Halopedia. It doesn't say dust-like, it says dust. The information would've specified dust-like if that's what it was, because immediately afterward, it explains what humans did with it to feed it to their animals.
west silo
It wasn't dust
That's just something the fandom started going with
It was more of a powder
That when tested on animals made them more docile
normal shard
The definition of dust is a fine, dry powder...
west silo
Well then dust it is
normal shard
fine, dry powder consisting of tiny particles of earth or waste matter lying on the ground or on surfaces or carried in the air.
(For full clarity)
west silo
Not let me go get my mysterious alien baby powder
normal shard
lol
humble yacht
I'm saying that the term "dust" used in the novel is a literary device so you know as the reader can imagine it
it's easier to say "dust" than it is to say "fine powder comprised of organic material and/or sediment"
normal shard
I understand that, but all I'm saying, is a wiki, two in fact, don't break it down to be specific like they normally would if that were the case. Secondly, it's been shown in books and also visual media to be straight-up dust.
west silo
And it's not like the forerunner trilogy is the easiest thing to follow
humble yacht
all i'm saying is that it's not the kind of dust you'll find sitting on your desk if you left it alone for a few months
normal shard
Know, I'd never say it was. lol
west silo
I still can't visualize how bornstellers homeworld looks even after they went into hyper detail about it
humble yacht
so there really is no reason to compare it to real world dust
west silo
All I really is floating rivers and infinite cliffs
normal shard
I was comparing it when a question was asked that couldn't be answered. I compared the question to the question about irl dust.
Not the dust itself.
west silo
Oh wait are you saying people think it's actual dust?
humble yacht
we can answer why real world dust makes us sneeze
that's actually been clearly discovered and characterized
normal shard
No, we cannot it explain exactly why 1 person is allergic and one person is not. We don't know this, especially with different dusts made up of different waste materials.
normal shard
But two people with the same genetics could have wildly different results, so no, you cannot fully explain why one person is allergic and one isn't.
humble yacht
that's why i said epigenetics
normal shard
That doesn't change the fact that we do not know this.
Just saying a field or study doesn't say anything.
humble yacht
it's been shown scientifically that genetics are a major factor in allergic reactions
we also understand the mechanism by which allergic responses occur
normal shard
Major factor and reason(s) why are not the same thing. Again, two people, with the same exact genetics (studies have been done with twins) doesn't actually show the difference-maker.
humble yacht
again, that's where epigenetics come into play
and even identical twins done have exactly the same genomes, as random SNPs occur in every organism that result in minor divergences between two genomes from the same origin
normal shard
The study of changes in organisms caused by modification of gene expression rather than alteration of the genetic code itself. Explain to me, how that comes into play. Modifying genetics doesn't explain anything and I'm looking right now, there are no studies that explain the discrepancy between two people with the same genetics. Also, yes, what you say is true, but it's as close as we could possibly get to same genetics and background.
Without modification, of course.
humble yacht
i'm not sure what essay you're typing up but the point is that a fictional dust is unknown by the sake of it being fictional, it's incomparable to real world dust and the effects it has on the human body
Epigenetics is the study not of the gene sequence but how that gene sequence is expressed
you can repress or express a gene without changing the gene, by adding or removing methylation sites to the DNA
methylation doesn't change the information in the gene, it just changes how the cell handles that gene and whether it expresses the information or not
normal shard
I was never comparing the two, as I've clarified but since you're just going to take petty pot shots, goodbye. Enjoy the "essay You are typing up"
humble yacht
so two people with the same gene could express it differently based on how it's methylated. and methylation is only one of several epigenetic markers that can be applied to DNA
studies have shown that environment can have an effect on epigenetics, so even identical twins sharing 99.99% of the same DNA can express genes differently through varying epigenetic markers
humble yacht
just some arguing over semantics
winter elk
oh Chimera-senpai!
west silo
So what's the canon population figures for harvest
Because one source say 3 or 30 thousand and another says 3 million
boreal bane
Not really a conversation we need to be having
west silo
Bro really?
cedar surge
Well for Spartan 2s their sexual drive is reduced
west silo
But they can still bone
gilded mason
Remember that was only a risk
versed helm
dapper harbor
Is the show even canon?
terse lava
The hell is this mess?
west silo
Science!!!!!!
And yes the show is canon
But somethings point to it maybe being an else world
Especially things like chief having 2 Spartan 3 deputies
And other race related topics
nimble quiver
lmao on the real though, I think they trained S-2s to never let something compromise their mission, not to mention the suppressed sexual drive risk in the augmentation. I always kinda thought MC's feelings for Cortana were some weird psychological side effect for his lack of sexual feelings, but I srsly doubt if thats really the case.
west silo
More of her probably reminding him of halsey the closest thing he has to a mother figure
terse lava
Yea, we never see him seeing Cortana in a sexual light. At first he saw her as just equipment, later as a partner, and as a friend
west silo
But yeah how canon is it for chief to have Spartan 3 deputies?
When were the Spartan 3s created?
And would chief have the time to meet them?
Blue team and halsey didn't find out about them till like near the end of the war
terse lava
Pretty much
west silo
So yeah the Spartan duties thing comes off pretty retcony to me
And the changed race thing
cedar surge
What race thing?
cedar surge
Well I guess if the actor is good enough to play the role they can play it
The covenant raising a child thing though
I can't get behind that
versed helm
how do spartans relieve themselves
cedar surge
If they wanted to access forerunner tech on the fly they can just kidnap a human
Well they have catheters in the suits
cedar surge
Recycled
versed helm
delicious
cedar surge
Into drinking water
west silo
So if a white dude played Johnson better we should retcon his race?
Or Asian dude playing chief
Or a cortana was Mexican all a long
cedar surge
Huh
west silo
You see what I mean
Just because someone plays a character good don't mean you have to change them
Make a new character
Do it mandilorian style and have them constantly where a helmet or something
cedar surge
Wait so its during one of the ages of discovery that the covenant religion was born,but wasn't it there at the beginning since the writ of union?
west silo
I don't know about ages but they basically agreed that forerunners were gods and joined forces
Isn't that why they made high charity there version of the Holy capital
cedar surge
On the halopedia page its said that its believed that during a age of discovery the prophets discovered the halo array giving birth to the covenant religion
But didn't the prophets knew and saught out the rings from the start?
west silo
Oh the great journey?
Maybe
humble yacht
The first Halo the covenant found was Alpha Halo
west silo
They always worshiped the forerunners now they just got a goal beyond pray to go to heaven
They discovered they existed
humble yacht
They must have learned of the Halos from other things left behind by the Forerunners
west silo
That's what he meant
humble yacht
but they didn't find an actual Halo until 2552
west silo
If they did they already be dead
humble yacht
not without a human
west silo
They'd just take one and go to the at ring
cedar surge
It looks like they knew about the array from the start of the covenant
west silo
Well they always said Holy rings so they knew there were many
humble yacht
they must have found some log that mentioned the Halos and some journey and misunderstood that the journey was metaphorical
cedar surge
So the covenant believed the flood were destroyed when the rings fired until proven wrong when the rings had flood on them. However hasn't the covenant met the flood long before finding it on the rings?
Like at least 20 years prior due to them being in halo wars
humble yacht
unclear
the covenant didn't connect the rings to the flood so i doubt whatever logs they found gave them info on the parasite
versed helm
unpopular opinion: master chief is overrated as a main character. he was good back in the old days when halo was moderately cheesy, but with it becoming more serious as better acting can be afforded and more lore can be written, he just doesn't fit. specifically his voice doesn't.
it always sounds like he's hamming it up
I'd be happy with a new protagonist
cedar surge
Well I think that's moderately popular
versed helm
really? it's probably the biggest complaint i hear about halo 5
west silo
That's like saying doomguy is overrated
Or duke nukem is overrated
Or bj blazko is overrated
There literally the face of there franchise
What do you want them to do?
Kill he and add in a new protagonist?
Man his story arc isn't even complete yet
What kinda protagonist would you want to replace chief
Because the contenders are really good
And I say that as someone who liked locke
mellow thorn
Imagine Halo without spartans
west silo
Everyone dies
The end- Patrick probably
safe inlet
it might lead to the unsc not finding any halo rings
west silo
But not the covenant
safe inlet
they would find it and kill everything that lives
ocean ibex
Arbiter did more than chief to end the war
obtuse crow
What if the flood never existed
cedar surge
Then every modern event wouldn't exist
No flood means precursors still around
Which either means forerunners gone or they decided against it
Ancient humanity gets the mantle and everything goes back to normal
versed helm
Normal being a relative term
west silo
Normal being humans probably enslaving the other species
Ancient humanity was basically the GE minus the evil space wizards and stormtroopers
obtuse crow
Ok
cedar surge
Galactic empire with space wizards and stormtroopers? So the unsc?
versed helm
halo without spartans you say? smokes sax-shaped cigar thats a tough one
obtuse crow
If there was no Spartans there would probably be some sorta of marine Spartan unit
cedar surge
Uh what
You mean like Spartan 3s?
Marines augmented to the levels of a Spartan?
But then that's just a spartan
And no Spartans means humanity is dead anyway
west silo
That's just Spartan with a different backstory
versed helm
when did humanity get interstellar in halo, and how was the first meeting with the covenant?
west silo
2060
versed helm
also, has there ever been a serious take on grunts? they definitely have more to them than laughing stock
versed helm
i was hoping it wouldnt be just fighting
versed helm
is there a lore reason why they act so memey in the games?
is their air supply borked?
west silo
Most of them are kids
versed helm
oh god
versed helm
are there any examples of adult grunts?
grunt elders?
probably not all of them are just... well, grunts
west silo
Old grunts
Stolth?
He's a spec ops grunt that's as big as a Spartan and can man handle a brute?
jolly furnace
when did humanity get interstellar in halo, and how was the first meeting with t...
Which time? Cos the first know time they went interstellar was prior to 1.1 million BCE
versed helm
@jolly furnace oh yeah
i meant modern
i'm about 10 years behind on halo lore
fell out of console gaming just before halo 4 came out
delicate ingot
What’s funny is I’m a Halo lore powerhouse yet I don’t know exact years and forget some key details lmao
ocean ibex
when did humanity get interstellar in halo, and how was the first meeting with t...
If you’re talking about modern then 2291, that’s when Wallace fujikawa and Tobias Shaw created the first slip space drive
@versed helm
jolly furnace
fell out of console gaming just before halo 4 came out
Ah well this info came from a book about the Forerunners, not any of the games. No worries.
ocean ibex
Yeah, the games barely explain any lore
west silo
They don't even hint at masterchiefs origins
Other than 4 and 5
And reaches trailer with carter
versed helm
The closest a game comes to any origins is Reach, I think
west silo
Where?
willow glade
Just read the 14 lore books and watch the 2 movies and you should be alright
cedar surge
You mean 36 books
bold owl
You mean the 3 movies halo legends halo fall of reach and halo nightfall
rustic canyon
don't forget forward unto dawn
rustic canyon
fall of reach I remember being released as a movie and forward unto dawn. Legends and nightfall were episodes they showed with waypoint and mcc
versed helm
Everything in Legends besides that one episode with dragon ball style art is lore
cedar surge
Electric monkey
lone oak
DR.LANCE!!!!
fair hazel
What’s funny is I’m a Halo lore powerhouse yet I don’t know exact years and forg...
I don’t like forgetting. Not knowing an answer annoys me because I hold myself to I should know it. Standards.
But halopedia is friend for little details and dates.
west silo
So when were smart ais created?
surreal sparrow
So whats green Spartans name?
surreal sparrow
Whats halo?
humble yacht
a beyonce song
gilded mason
Nobody really knows.
surreal sparrow
Hmmm...
humble yacht
Halo is Amazon's new health monitoring service
Like FitBit, except its run by Jeff Bezos
versed helm
What if the UNSC started incorporating Forerunner technology into their ships and weapons before the war and their first meeting with the Covenant went the same way as it did in Contact Harvest, would the war be any different?
Like if The Assembly didn't keep the Forerunner tech on Onyx a secret
cedar surge
Well going by the rate of tech progression now
They would either reach the same tech level in a few decades or be a little higher
versed helm
Or how different would the war be if the UNSC won the Battle of Reach?
west silo
Well no different
Because only like a dozen planets were left
Actually earth would fall
Because the events of first strike wouldn't have happened
You know the fleet of 500 ships that were heading to earth
And the arbiter might have been killed if they defeated the covenant
Because remember the covenant don't surrender especially a fleetmaster
versed helm
Oh yoink, that
west silo
Yeah a few dozen
That's what I meant
Reach and tribute were some of the last planets to fall
cedar surge
Didn't tribute hold on till the end?
west silo
Yeah
versed helm
Even while the Great Schism happened
west silo
But it did get a little glassed right?
cedar surge
Yea
west silo
Well the arbiter wouldn't be there to rally the elites
cedar surge
But it still had a bunch of shipyards left
west silo
Yea it and Mars are one of the main ship yards in the post wars
cedar surge
It replaced reach
versed helm
But a yoink ton of debris in orbit
west silo
Looks at earth in 4
cedar surge
Looks like corusant beta
west silo
There should be a ton of debris in 4 ending
versed helm
Where does the UNSC even get the Titanium to create new ships after the war?
west silo
Titanium is pretty common
cedar surge
Titanium is everywhere
west silo
In spaccceeeee
cedar surge
Reach just had mountains of it
west silo
And the become trailer with the planet in the background
cedar surge
Metanerds calculated a single halcyon would take .01 of the titanium on earth to build
west silo
You want to know something stupid?
cedar surge
What?
cedar surge
Huh?
west silo
In the mission when Kat comes up with the plan for upper cut they ask about nukes
She replied that the ships in space carrying them were destroyed
And that they'll have to wait for the ships out of the system for help
cedar surge
Are missile bases a thing of the past?
west silo
Isn't reach basically a giant military base?
humble yacht
it'd be more efficient to fire a missile from space to the ground than it would be to fire a missile from the ground to another continent
west silo
Wouldn't they at least make them on the ground?
humble yacht
also I'm guessing that any attacks on reach would come from off planet
west silo
Don't innies usually attack on the planet
And they weren't completely gone during the war
In fact they were the first thought when the radio base went dark
humble yacht
if that were the case then it'd make more sense to not have any nukes on the ground
innies can't steal a nuke if its in space
west silo
Bruh
Are the unsc really that bad at security?
Ohhh booboo there's a 000.01 percent chance a bunch of armed civilians on the most secured military planet in history are going to try and Rob these nukes better put all l of them in space!!!!! And make sure the planet has no nukes at alllll
At that point what if someone shot the place in space the nukes are being held?
versed helm
When was Andesia colonized?
west silo
Where?
versed helm
west silo
Wow imagine fighting a genocidal alien threat and then attempting to kill the guys that helped you survive for nearly 3 decades of war
inland axle
Are the unsc really that bad at security?
Yes
west silo
I'd like some examples
Then again nukes in halo are common as dirt
Havok nukes that have a yield of 30MT are mostly used as civilian mining equipment that are easily available to civilians
That's basically the equivalent of a some gold miners having access to high level nukes
No wonder the innies could get get nukes so easily
cedar surge
Well the unsc used so many nukes they had to start digging up old ones or trade with innies
west silo
And by 4 years later there throwing them around again like free candy
vague scroll
nuclear technology in the 26th century is common and easy to acquire
cedar surge
Well every strident has 3 giant nukes
vague scroll
every UNSC starship is a flying nuclear coffin
vague scroll
all UNSC ships use nuclear fusion drives
cedar surge
A single unsc starship could end earth on its own with strategocally placed shots
west silo
If the infinity shot earth it would be the dinosaur extinction event all over again
cedar surge
Especially with the
west silo
Book that shall not be named
blazing dragon
But if the UNSC was in the war with the covenant they would not have as many nukes thanks to the fact that nukes and mac rounds were the only weapons that could penetrate covenant starships shilding and the most likely used alot of them to destroy the covenant ships and I remember reading that the UNSC were saving them for planet defense just incase the covenant tried to invade
cedar surge
The unsc were extremely trigger happt with nukes
They already ran through the entire supply half way
west silo
The unsc gave ground troops nukes like it was going out of style
cedar surge
Probably cause it was
west silo
Naw nukes and Mac are the unsc only useful weapons
cedar surge
Naw I mean cause genocide
Hey wasn't there a plan for nukes to be shot from a rocket launcher or mortar?
west silo
That sounds like the fatman from fallout
Well a unsc nuke is small enough to be fired from a rocket launcher
slim thorn
Not to mention Chief can carry a HAVOK-grade payload to Nuke Mantle's Approach at Halo 4
But the problem is for maximum damage, it must be detonated from inside-out
cedar surge
The unsc don't have to worry much about radiation though
vague scroll
I don't really understand where this notion that the UNSC ran out of nukes came from
but as for your question about shoulder-launched nukes, you're thinking of the M28 Davvy Crockett developed by the United States for Germany during the Cold War, to use against Soviet tank battalions if they ever tried to invade West Europe
@cedar surge
west silo
Actually the unsc running out of nukes came from first strike
Tho I will add
They didn't say the unsc instead they said this sector has ran out of nukes
vague scroll
the UNSC still had plenty of nukes running around pre- and post-war, that notion that they were out is pretty outdated at the very least
west silo
Well its sector most just interpret it as the unsc in whole
vague scroll
yeah it's a bit disingenuous
west silo
It's like people taking cortana brute forcing a password security lock as her struggling
cedar surge
Oh it was a unsc sector?
west silo
Well yeah
It should been even more obvious because the entire system was abandoned and glassed by the covenant
Thus there being no nukes
Because everything was destroyed
vague scroll
Or at least unaccounted for, its not like the UNSC's weapon transponders are going to keep reporting "I'm a working nuke, come and get me!" when the starship went down carrying it
west silo
Wouldn't the nukes blow up in it?
vague scroll
not really, depends on the construction and design redundancies
west silo
Those nukes must be stronger than the ship
vague scroll
and I was going to amend that "going down" could mean as much as crashing down on the planet as well as "ship gutted, fragments stuck in orbit"
UNSC starships are floating nuclear weapons by the same notion
given that they don't behave like traditional fusion reactors in principle and damaging them can cause cascading detontations
west silo
Well any starship pretty much a weapon
vague scroll
well anything can be a weapon in the right circumstance, I just mean that a UNSC ship going down doesn't necessarily mean the payloads they're carrying are done too
there's still that miraculous story they told in one of the Forza games explaining how warthogs survived a crash landing and saved the marines that locked themselves in their chairs
vague scroll
or the gutted half of the FuD still had a working hyperion nuclear delivery system on board
yeh
beat me to it
west silo
Man unsc ships are built to last
vague scroll
have to be, otherwise they wouldn't survive a war for very long
vague scroll
throwing the Everest into a gas giant was a ballsy move by Cole
you'd think the supersonic winds would tear it apart
or the atmospheric pressures
west silo
Wasn't there a battle were a fleet of 101 unsc ships went against 12 covenant ones
And only 70 survived
vague scroll
that might of been Groomsbridge
vague scroll
nevermind, Groomsbridge/Great Bear was 17 to 3, they lost 11 ships
vague scroll
yes
west silo
That the unsc best commander getting losses that would be unacceptable in our battles
Really makes you wonder how many ships were lost defending the outer colonies
west silo
Well going with reach the unsc only had 2000 ships
And the covenant sent 4000 in the first or second year of the war
cedar surge
Cole was 100 vs 100 intinally before it turned into 100 vs 200 with the covenant getting reinforcements
If I Remeber right
cedar surge
Yea I think that's it
Cole was outnumbered from the start
But he destroyed 300 ships
Which is a drop of water compared to the massive covenant fleets
west silo
Wasn't it speculated that the covenant had set that trap just for him
cedar surge
Well he did never lose a battle against the covenamt
So he would have been a big target
Wonder what would of happened if it was thel who fought him
west silo
How'd they even find out about him
cedar surge
Well they can hack into the unsc
cedar surge
I think thel could have matched cole
west silo
What if the feel for the trap?
cedar surge
Yknow perhaps that should have been done sooner