#lore-and-universe

1 messages · Page 137 of 1

modest marsh
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Which is to say, the games are toned down to accommodate the arcadey level design where encounters typically involve platoon-sized units when often the situation would call for several orders of magnitude more

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(On both sides that is, not saying that Chief or whoever you’re playing as is consistently fighting +100 enemies per engagement)

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There were probably significantly more marines and NMPD officers supporting alpha nine for instance during the events of the game than is what is shown to be the case in game

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And not, you know, 5 of them

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This also goes hand in hand with how ground vehicles are largely totally absent if not player controlled outside of a few exceptions, as well as the background aerial battles introduced in 3 and maintained in future entries largely stay contained to just banshees vs whatever UNSC air vehicle happens to be convenient to spam for the developers

vital mist
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Sure it goes for difficulty too. Not difficulty really represents what we see in lore

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Which would basically be everyone is taking damage as if on legendary, (both covenant and UNSC would be dropping significantly faster)

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And obviously your spartan character would be performing at an ability beyond anything the player can do

modest marsh
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Sorta? Brutes in heavy armor are definitely much more resilient typically than how they’re depicted in game (besides 2)

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They basically chalk up fast kill times against them to luck or well placed strikes rather than it just being that easy to tear apart their armor with small arms

vital mist
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Essentially

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First thing that comes to mind is Halo Landfall where we see BRs one shotting brutes

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And that one prequel comic to halo 3 where Chief kills like 20 brutes with duel wielding spikers

modest marsh
vital mist
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Meanwhile the brutes are getting one shot

modest marsh
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Yes but it also fully impales them including a few inches of concrete in the latter instance

vital mist
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Oh yeah, but like...

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It's pretty pointless

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The idea with brute weapons is that it leads to the enemy waisting time helping wounded

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Didn't help the brutes though, they genuinely got their cheek slapped in that little skirmish

modest marsh
vital mist
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And they also seem pretty idiotic? The ODST sniper kills 3 brutes who all walk out in the open after seeing their buddies get sniped

modest marsh
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Similarly, the skewer is a repurposed big game hunting rifle

vital mist
vital mist
modest marsh
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In my opinion, the covenant and its member species seem like they would encourage their equivalent of adolescent children to join the military which is consistent with their characterization (particularly grunts)

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The more senior members (ie officers/majors) thusly being mostly full adults

vital mist
modest marsh
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It also has a fun thematic parallel with the Spartans also being child soldiers

vital mist
modest marsh
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They take issue with the augmentations themselves

vital mist
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Oh yeah, I mean the kidnapping children part

modest marsh
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At least during the war, they had superstitions about how Spartans were likely reanimated/undead humans, and that they wore those mirror finish masks because they lack a soul, hence “demon”

vital mist
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All the covenant races just seem fairly horrible, for whatever reason. Like they're all cannibals for whatever reason who enjoy eating and torturing

modest marsh
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The Covenant and the elites in particular were very particular about displaying one’s face or at least the shape of the eyes

vital mist
modest marsh
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The silent shadow are the only exception to this which is fitting considering they obviously engage in some taboo behavior relative to the rest of the covenant

vital mist
modest marsh
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Well, he gets mauled

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There’s a difference

vital mist
modest marsh
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Yeah I mean, the guy’s a total outcast among the sangheili

vital mist
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Would it be fair to call elites fascist?

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Before the Arbiter anyway, their culture seems extremely dicy by human standards

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Survival of the fittest, rule anyone they deem an "other" or lower than them

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And definitely xenophobic

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But obviously they're very much based off feudal Japan. ie, committing a dishoner means you kill yourself or your entire clan/house gets killed down to the women and children

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But at least female elites are trained to defend the keep, so thats something

prime mauve
# vital mist Would it be fair to call elites fascist?

Using this definition, I think they're not really a full match:

Fascism is characterized by support for a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived interest of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.

vagrant ocean
vital mist
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It's different waring clans and such

prime mauve
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Dictatorial leader? They can be challenged and their assassinations are not only expected but encouraged if they aren't up to standard. But if the Kaidon's authority survived challenge it becomes pretty absolute.
Centralized autocracy? Only at a Keep level, when we start going further into regional lords or even a world's high Kaidons, they don't really have that much central authority and depend on others to get anything done (as we see with the Arbiter and the Swords of Sanghelios).
Suppression of opposition? Again, assassination of leaders is expected...but if they fail they get punished hard and there is payback against their families too, and we see at several points that dishonor extends to family and that they are expected to die before dishonor.
Belief in natural social hierarchy? The system of keeps and kaidons is a little more Medievalist than racist or classist, imo, but yes, the noble class is expected to remain in power, and the social mobility seems entirely linked to military performance and meritocracy.
Subordination of the individual for the good of the race? The Covenant definitely used that through religion, getting the whole race to commit to military service. But I don't think the Sangheili were doing that for their race but their faith.
Regimentation of society amd economy? Kinda. We don't really know enough about the Sangheili civilian population that aren't geared towards arming or feeding warriors to really know how regimented everything is.

vital mist
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The UNSC lacks a civilian government and the army has all the power

prime mauve
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I'd call them authoritarian for sure

vital mist
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Well, there is a civilian government but they're essentially just puppets

vital mist
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I have no clue about the Brutes though

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Aside from their society just being packs, essentially

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Like you have a pack, then the greater pack who are then within the even bigger pack etc

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I can't remember their official names though

vagrant ocean
vital mist
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But it does suppress opposition and is militaristic

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The civilian government has essentially no power

modest marsh
# vital mist But it does suppress opposition and is militaristic

If by opposition, you mean the insurrection, the problem is that for the most part any grassroots political movement quickly snowballs into a violent uprising after being co-opted by a UNSC defector that ends up in charge who use extreme measures against civilian targets

prime mauve
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Yeah the Innies have got a UNSC colonel and like two generals that we know of taking over

modest marsh
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This is in part because the UEG is an ineffective democracy, but it’s not an intentional mechanism of the government to suppress political opposition but rather its too easy for the opposition to turn into an extremist group

prime mauve
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Also that Drake guy

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I don't remember his rank

modest marsh
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Almost every notable insurrectionist is former UNSC

prime mauve
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The one that later gets usurped by Ilsa Zane

vital mist
modest marsh
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Corruption and rebel sympathizers in the CMA allowed piracy to get out of hand, depriving colonists of resources and economic mobility

vital mist
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Or are they under Hood and ONI

modest marsh
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The UNSC has been ceding back nominal authority to the civilian government but much of former human colonies that have been reestablished often fall under UNSC authority in the interim period

vital mist
modest marsh
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ONI however has largely worked to maintain it’s existing level of influence through covert methods including shell organizations such as Materials Group

vital mist
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That seems pretty good

vital mist
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So would the UNSC be any worse than modern day governments and such?

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Not counting ONI

prime mauve
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Well their larger scale really amplifies all their wrongs to a bigger level

vital mist
modest marsh
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Yeah, ONI openly monitors virtually all networked communications in human space using AI

vital mist
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But obviously Halo ai is literally ai

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Not what we have

scarlet quiver
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I wonder how the community would feel about AI if it was authentic Halo AI.

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I would love the futuristic medical improvements of the Halo universe tbh.

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Listening to the audiobook of Edge of dawn, and i am like, damn, we need that.

modest marsh
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Machine learning is being used for productive and positive things, the tech evangelists claiming that AI assistants who can explain everything for you or solve any problem are just misrepresenting the utility of the technology because they have a vested interest in accelerating interest/investment in the short term

scarlet quiver
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I hear you, and totally makes sense.
It is a great discussion about what we classify as ai and honestly, i think we need to rebrand and have a simple definition, clear easy labels for these things. Then have ppl use them. Machine learning, algorithms, full on self aware ai, and so forth.
Instead of what you said, all this misrepresentation. Like, stop allowing companies to fudge on marketing. "But its okay to have up to 0.5grams of transfat, and label it as zero grams."

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If Halo was today in America, i would honestly question how much of a Moa burger is actually Moa.

vital mist
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I honestly think we're just a bit dense

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Look at all the advancements in robot technology

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People hate it when it can't run properly, people hate it when it can run faster than a human etc

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AI hate is due to how companies use them and how they're being used to mislead and just straight up lie

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As well as the environmental damage

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But the robot one legitimately just seems to be people annoyed that robots are now starting to be better at certain things than people

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Like instead of seeing the advancements that robots can run properly now without falling over, the reaction is just "a human didn't do it, therefore not impressive"

carmine sleet
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My take is that trying to model robots after humans is kinda a terrible idea since the human body is one of the least efficient things for performing tasks which robots should be performing

worn wolf
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mostly because the robotics showcase seem to suggest we're halfway to detroit become human, while an intern wearing a headset controls it with .5 second latency behind every action. till it falls over and breaks on stage.

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peoples dislike for robots i feel just applies to the attempt to make humanoid ones. people couldnt care less than theres been robotics in manufacturing for a while now.

stoic hamlet
# vital mist Not counting ONI

They’re the same thing.

Basically all UNSC top brass are involved in ONI special weapons projects (well, the not-dead ones) except Hood, but Hood seems to be the odd man out. Most of the more “mundane” evils in the setting have been done by regular UNSC personnel, as well, acting under UNSC orders.

ONI has a lot of power, but it’s still part of the UNSC. The two are intertwined.

scarlet quiver
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I need to see a concept map of the UNSC structure tbh.

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How many sections do we know of, and dont know of?
We are pretty far into (25 years) the lore that i wonder if they will write in a new oni sect.

old pebble
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Could a Spartan Duel Wield Energy Swords? How Would He Even Use Them?

frigid heart
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With both hands

unique rune
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very carefully

vital mist
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Mainly due to that one episode of Black mirror

vital mist
stoic hamlet
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The civilian government, by and large.

And the security council.

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But obviously with the Covenant War (and the distances between colonies) these are more of an “on paper” thing.

vital mist
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Like the UNSC has the ships

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What's the government gonna do? Sue them?

stoic hamlet
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I mean, that’s the issue in all societies.

vital mist
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Because even in modern day, international law is a joke. It only applies to certain people

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And powerful countries literally cannot be touched

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Like what you gonna do? Bring the CIA to court?

vital mist
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Maybe the precursors did

worn wolf
modest marsh
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Big ships are expensive and have a large maintenance tail

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The people working on them expect to get paid

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The military industrial complex is deeply embedded in the private enterprises that build and distribute the materiel as well as the infrastructure required to continuously operate smoothly

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The UNSC has Materials Group as a shell corporation that provides some of the industrial capacity but even that is just the government paying for it

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Also, to be clear, no one is more acutely aware or concerned about the potential tyrannical injustices by the military than members of said military which is also probably why so many rebels including the majority of their leadership are UNSC defectors

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Going military coup mode would just cause even worse fractures

wispy pewter
unique rune
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I
wait

did you mean Edward Snowden???

vital mist
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I wasn't aware that The Watch was stationed in Russia

carmine sleet
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I thought they were referring to the British journalist

wispy pewter
carmine sleet
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You know I was joking when I referenced the journalist, right? (And pretty sure he's still living in the UK so you can't have been referencing him)

wispy pewter
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Oh what? I mean Emperor is right. Idk where he lives, I thought he was granted asylum is Russia last I heard

worn wolf
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if you all pitch in some money i am willing to sue the CIA

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it'll be a laugh

stoic hamlet
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But we like CIA here. He’s a Halopedia friend!

worn wolf
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the central inteligence agency of the united states as opposed to CIA391 the halopedia friend

chrome apex
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Would San shyuum prelates be similar gameplay wise to the game Haze? It involves injections in combat for enhanced strength and abilities.

stoic hamlet
worn wolf
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pray for the day prelates are an enemy in the games

scarlet quiver
frigid heart
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We will never see you again

obsidian thistle
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Oh jeez indeed

carmine sleet
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Your honour, this man is innocent

quasi kiln
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exfantasia

quasi kiln
stoic hamlet
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You’ve answered your own question, really.

unique rune
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lick it to see if it’s cherry flavored

modest marsh
chrome apex
modest marsh
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With Prelates, the activation of their adrenal response seems instinctive rather than it being administered via some sort of cybernetic or pharmaceutical device

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Spartans have a similar phenomenon but that seemed by accident where their hormones just respond due to psychological conditioning

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Halsey wanted Spartans to have an artificial adrenal response system but it seems like it wasn’t needed

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Although the following protocols have unacceptable FAlL rates, they show promise, and may, with future research, be redesigned within acceptable tolerances.

Adrenal thermal metabolase - Enhances adrenal response under physiological distress. Catalyst, however, breaks down into highly toxic waste products making this protocol eventually fatal. Future research: Possible coenzyme inhibitor?

slim salmon
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What are the Spartan Abilities you get during Reach? Are they captured Covenant technology?

carmine sleet
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It's a mix of reverse-engineered Covenant tech and just stuff the UNSC had made

orchid kettle
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Sprint is the funniest one since the lore behind it is that MJOLNIR normally has some safety limiter (which contradicts the TFOR novel but at this point what part of Reach doesnt) and you're only able to bypass said limiter thanks to Kat making some hack and passing it around the team

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but then we can just sprint freely in later games without a hack

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and Chief will sprint in Campaign Evolved

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Misc material around Halo 4 might have mentioned that the UNSC have copied and incorporated Kat's hack into GEN2, but Halo 5 also has the booster jets active when you sprint and it feels like the implication there is that you're running faster because the jets are helping you.

unique rune
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running is a dealer-installed option for Mjolnir that voids your warranty if you use it

worn wolf
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bungie knew that halo fans couldnt related to a protagonist that can sprint for longer than 8 seconds.

prime mauve
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They added the heavy breathing while sprinting to be relatable to their player base

stoic hamlet
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People don’t want sprint because they can no longer relate to the protagonist.

warm ridge
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It's pretty well established even inside of Halo 3 that those Cortana moments aren't PTSD at all, and are actually the Gravemind communicating with Chief directly.
So yes, it's telepathic.
Yes, Bungie intended them to be that strong. It's how they were written.

prime mauve
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Is Chief unconscious when he is taken by the tentacle in Halo 2?

warm ridge
warm ridge
prime mauve
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Because if the Gravemind had access to Chief in both an unconscious and a conscious state I imagine he could pull a lot more telepathic moves against him than otherwise

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Wait

warm ridge
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I don't see how being unconscious in that moment has any relation towards the Gravemind communicating with Chief telepathically in Halo 3.

prime mauve
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Didn't the Didact black out at some point when in the Gravemind's power?

warm ridge
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Also, Cortana was with him the entire time when Chief got knocked unconscious back in Halo 2. His armor never got penetrated or anything.

warm ridge
prime mauve
warm ridge
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that doesn't really make any sense

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if you're not awake, the Flood can't convince you or manipulate you at all. You can be infected, but you probably won't even realize it's happening.

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The way the Flood infects people isn't related to consciousness at all, it's by absorbing your memories, and essentially erasing you out of existence.
You become the Flood hivemind, you yourself doesn't exist anymore.

prime mauve
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I was thinking of it more as brainwashing and less as the full infection

warm ridge
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Forerunners were kind of able to bring people back out of the Flood infection using the Composer (which destroyed all Flood influence / presence), but even with zero Flood anything present they still succumbed back to Flood infection no matter what they did. Digitally or physically.

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Your soul itself is the Flood hivemind now in a way.

warm ridge
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Captain Keyes wasn't brain washed when the Flood was looking through the guys memories. He was only allowed to exist because of his importance, the Flood learning all this new stuff required him to stay alive, even if just for a moment (plus he was the catalyst for the Proto-Gravemind). He was still continuously being tortured during this process though (Flood infection isn't exactly painless, it's very painful)

prime mauve
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Basically the Gravemind opening up the Chief's mind through unconscious suggestion, Brave New World style, was my idea here.

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Since the Flood can be subtle and their manipulation isn't always through brute force, I figure it is not entirely out of question that they could do something to a consciousness.

warm ridge
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Pretty certain the Gravemind could've done it to anyone, but he wanted to focus on Chief specifically due to his connection with Cortana (because Cortana was hiding information from the Gravemind).

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Gravemind never had any real connection to Chief's mind or anything like that. It was just telepathic communication.

prime mauve
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Do we know about how his telepathy works?

fair hazel
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No one made the thread for the waypoint chronicles yet?

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Waypoint Chronicles volume 1 Spoiler Discussion

hardy swan
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is it free or on the amazon store

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aw man it's so expensive here

vital mist
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The flood literally steal your soul

modest marsh
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“Essence” in the context of halo, but yeah, consciousness itself is treated with unique importance in the halo universe

warm ridge
# prime mauve Do we know about how his telepathy works?

Nope, just assume it follows the same basic rules for how telepathic communication works.
We know the Domain could communicate to people telepathically (even while they were awake), so it's probably something Precursor related.

Graveminds are also able to control every Flood being as a "hive mind", telling us whatever it is he's doing is pretty advanced.

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The Domain also possesses the ability to transport you pretty much anywhere near instantly that's within the Domain's own grasp / influence. Both Forthencho & the Ur-Didact have been doing this to shut down all the Domain access points.

scarlet quiver
# prime mauve Do we know about how his telepathy works?

It is hard as, take this for example,
We are three dimensional creatures (spatially).
For two dimensional creatures living on a page, if a 2D person locks all their goods in a safe, they think that material is protected. However, it is just a square on a piece of paper and us three dimensional creatures can see right into that safe, as we see a square with goods in it. But the two dimensional person that put his goods in the safe, sees it locked up securely.
As three dimensional creatures, we can see the insides of two dimensional objects.

So something living in four dimensions, it is safe to assume that they can see the insides of three-dimensional objects, including us three dimensional humans. That they could see inside our bodies, which includes the brain.
So if I, a three dimensional creature could reach inside a two dimensional safe and take that guy's item without ever breaking his safe, who's the say that a for dimensional creature couldn't reach inside a three-dimensional body and do the same?
Hence, the idea of telepathy. What if these people had four dimensional abilities to simply plant things in and out of your brain???
If all your memories and thoughts, and everything we are are simply chemical electrical signals, then could they not just alter those using four dimensional methods?

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Heck, even higher than 4 dimensions, why stop at 4D???

tall moat
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Well indirectly, you know what I meant

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Obviously they hurt the Flood somehow, that’s... why they were built

crude steeple
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Is there a reason why they couldnt kill the flood outright

drowsy mesa
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Lack of time to refine to technology, maybe?

tall moat
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Maybe something to do with the Precursors’ use of ‘neural physics’. As mentioned above, the Halo Array destroys the neural systems of organics (i.e. sentient beings). I don’t know how or what the Flood’s minds are like though

crude steeple
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So a vegan gravemind would be invulnerable to the rings

tall moat
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They already are, I don’t think their minds are the same as ours when they can telecommunicate with their minions very far away

crude steeple
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Did the premordial get affected by the rings

tall moat
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No, it miraculously survived the firing at Charum Hakkor and was subsequently interrogated by Mendicant Bias or sth

obsidian thistle
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Without the Solvent @drowsy mesa the Flood would survive.

drowsy mesa
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@tall moat they are not inmune to the rings's firing

tall moat
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Why?

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@obsidian thistle What would happen? The Flood would consume all the leftover biomass from all the dead beings?

carmine sleet
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Most likely

tall moat
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I still don’t know how the Flood itself can be vulnerable to the Halos

carmine sleet
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No, wait, I got it wrong, they use the solvent to get rid of any corpses because of how a sudden change like everything dropping dead would likely kill the ecosystems of the planets in the galaxy

tall moat
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So what did @obsidian thistle mean then

versed helm
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So Gold Team is Canon now

obsidian thistle
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Well yea.

tall moat
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Dual reasons then

warped fiber
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Gold team?

versed helm
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So Glod team
Leader Joshua 029
Then Daisy
Grace
And Solomon

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???

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Did I read it right

obsidian thistle
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Well there was Gold team and Green team in the book.

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Some of those spartans may have been on either team

feral perch
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Lekgolo are immune to Flood infection and also would have survived the firing of the Array?

unique rune
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Lekgolo aren’t immune to Flood infection, they just lack the calcium mass to be used as Combat Forms and such.
They still can be infected and converted into biomass for building up the environment and other Flood forms, though.

feral perch
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Ah.

obsidian thistle
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Biomass is why the Solvent is needed.

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Without it bodys remain

ember oracle
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Naiomi is also on gold @versed helm

versed helm
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No there are 4 on each team

carmine sleet
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Not always, allot of the time, teams like Red had more, such as during the Fall of Reach

severe elbow
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Teams are all interchangeable with the exception of specialty teams like Gray Team and Spartan: Black.

obsidian thistle
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Yep

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Linda was even on Green Team at one point.

severe elbow
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The whole "Blue Team is always the Master Chief, Fred, Kelly, and Linda" is really more of a circa Halo 5 thing.

obsidian thistle
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Yea tbh it a lil annoying, but understandable in making the characters more recognisable

woeful sierra
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During the Fall of Reach, the only Spartans on Blue Team were John, Linda, and James. Everyone else there was on Red Team

proven granite
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I like how the spartan field manual references the Spartan Assault Coop mode that everyone seems to forget about even when talking about said reference.

woeful sierra
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I played it on Windows, so I never played it Co-op.

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Was it canon?

proven granite
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I don’t believe it was at the time but it had you fight flood

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And the field manual mentions spartan 4s having to put down flood outbreaks implying that it may be canon, if it wasn’t already.

woeful sierra
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Ah. I mean I know the Battle of Draetheus V happened. Palmer is actually way cooler than people think she is.

proven granite
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That’s besides the point.

woeful sierra
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Yeah, yeah.

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I wasn't trying to turn the conversation towards her

modest marsh
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I believe the map descriptions of certain halo 4 maps imply they have fought the flood

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Also

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There’s a whole cutscene that explains it’s a simulation

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To prepare for that contingency

woeful sierra
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What, Spartan Assault?

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Ohhh you mean the flood mode

modest marsh
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Well the whole thing is a tactical sim

proven granite
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Yeah I was about to say that

modest marsh
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The Flood mode is specifically for training against flood outbreaks

proven granite
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That doesn’t mean the events didn’t take place though

severe elbow
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There was an introductory cutscene in Spartan Assault that's canon, talks about the Flood.

proven granite
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The campaign was meant to train Spartans and the events of the battle were canonical so why can’t we apply the same logic to the coop mode?

severe elbow
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Well, it's different. The simulation in the co-op mode isn't depicting an event that took place. The cutscene is Roland talking to the Spartans about the Flood and what the training's for.

modest marsh
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Specifically I don’t think an instance of two Spartans guarding against waves of Flood forms in an open area has happened

proven granite
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Yes but just because it doesn’t say it’s depicting an event that doesn’t mean it isn’t.

modest marsh
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It seems unlikely

severe elbow
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Incredibly unlikely.

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We have no documented Flood outbreaks besides the Ark and Zeta Halo.

last anchor
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That we know of. There may have been minor ones S-IVs stamped out quickly

severe elbow
woeful sierra
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Why do some Spartans have accents? They were taken from their families as little kids, so 30-40 years down the line you’d think it would start to go away.

versed helm
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Some spartan 4s are regular soldiers that were selected

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Like people who enlisted in the UNSC by hand at the proper age

woeful sierra
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I mean the 2s and 3s

versed helm
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No idea

woeful sierra
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Jun, Jorge, Kat, and Kelly specifically.

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I don’t know if we’ve heard any others that don’t sound American/Canadian

tender moss
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S3s were regular people, not kidnappped, right?

woeful sierra
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Nope. Kidnapped

tender moss
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I knew the S2s were. Been a while since I looked back at the S3s...

woeful sierra
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Some at age 4, actually, because they loosened Halsey’s parameters so they could find more kids

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The book Ghosts of Onyx delves a lot into their background. Reading it right now. Good stuff.

severe elbow
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IIIs weren't kidnapped. They're underaged volunteers.

versed helm
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^

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They were taken from planets glasses by the covies, they used the anger against them covenant

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thinkingchief very exciting

dusty pilot
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if only more SIII's survived, i would have liked that.

left depot
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Do we know how many Gammas survived? I know some Betas are still unconfirmed

carmine sleet
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I mean, they weren't meant to survive

woeful sierra
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@severe elbow you’re right, my bad. Still, the UNSC had no business recruiting nearly a thousand children.

dusty pilot
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when i first heard of the SIV's in 2012, i thought they were going to be SIII's but on a 100000 Strong side, Divisions of Children SIV's lol

severe elbow
queen citrus
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Aight, sorry about that

severe elbow
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NBD

upper star
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The III were all orphans from the war. ONI played on their desire for revenge and they volunteered

glacial sandal
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@left depot There's a few things which claim most Gammas participated little in the war. So most of the unit is probably still around

severe elbow
#

We certainly haven't heard anything about casualties for the Company besides those from Ghosts of Onyx. Unless the Company was involved in some heavy fighting in the last few weeks of the war, I'd guess most are still active. We have confirmation of Spartan-G059, at least.

woeful sierra
#

Can’t say the same for Beta. Whoops

#

ONI casually sends 300 12y/o kids to their death

proven granite
#

That was literally the whole point of the Spartan IIIs though

woeful sierra
#

Yeah, I know

proven granite
#

I thought u said u h8ed bungie and halo

woeful sierra
#

What?

proven granite
#

Uncultured

#

tsk tsk tsk

woeful sierra
#

When? When was this said?

proven granite
#

It's an Arby n the Chief reference

woeful sierra
#

Were it so easy to get every reference.

#

Which by the way, “Were it so easy” is one of the coolest one-liners I’ve heard.

honest bear
#

I really like the speech Hood gave at the end of Halo 3

brisk cape
#

Chills every time I hear that speech.

agile lotus
#

S2s either inherited the accent in the 6 years they had with their parents or were given their accent by the trainers.

woeful sierra
#

I just love that even though Thel is responsible for a billion humans’ deaths, Hood shook his hand and thanked him.

proven granite
#

I mean what choice did he have?

woeful sierra
#

Killing him, exiling him from earth?

woven parcel
#

yea i liked that part too.

proven granite
#

And risk having the Elites turn on the humans and decide to wipe out the human race once and for all?

agile lotus
#

@woeful sierra Without Thel, Hood wouldn’t be there to shake his hand.

woeful sierra
#

Right

#

Thel, my boy

agile lotus
#

“I can never forgive you for what your race has done to mine, but, you have my thanks.”

woeful sierra
#

That scene makes you realize how large elites are compared to humans.

agile lotus
#

“For sticking by him ‘till the end. Hard to believe he’s dead.”
”Were it so easy.”

woeful sierra
#

Dang, that recursion was masterful.

agile lotus
#

To think, before the Gravemind, the two were trying to kill each other. After, they basically became best friends.

#

At least, we all see them as best friends.

woeful sierra
#

If we don’t see Thel in Infinite, I’ll be a bit mad

proven granite
#

Blue Team better be in Infinite

woeful sierra
#

Yes, please

#

They’re so cool.

proven granite
#

Halo 5's campaign is actually decent

#

Gameplay wise

#

The biggest problem with it though is that there aren't enough enemies and enemy vehicles in each level

agile lotus
#

That’s debatable.

proven granite
#

Also, Spartan Abilities ruin the pacing

woeful sierra
#

If Locke wasn’t there and you just played as Blue Team...

proven granite
#

I'm talking about the campaign in terms of gameplay not the story

agile lotus
#

What if Thel was a co-op partner who actually showed up in missions from time to time, like in Halo 3?

proven granite
#

What if in Halo Reach, we played as canon noble six by default and coop players played as the cut members of noble team?

agile lotus
#

Eh, I like the system Reach has.

proven granite
#

No but seriously, the Halo 5 levels are pretty empty.

agile lotus
#

Besides, couldn’t you theoretically play as the cut members, with the armors that you already have?

proven granite
#

And the spartan abilities make it worse.

#

Yes

#

But I mean what if hypothetically, the system we have now didn't exist and instead we had that.

agile lotus
#

Probably wouldn’t shove them into cutscenes, though.

proven granite
#

Also I believe you technically can't actually play canon Noble Six

#

Okay, actually you can but you just can't play him as he's seen in the trailers because in the trailers he uses a version of Mark 5b that was only in the beta and not in the final product.

agile lotus
#

That was who you’re replacing.

proven granite
#

No I'm not talking about Thom

#

I'm talking about the Halo: Reach Video Games Awards Trailer

agile lotus
#

6 is just Recruit.

proven granite
#

This version of his helmet is not in Halo Reach

#

That's the HUL upgrade from the beta, which differs slightly from the one in final.

agile lotus
#

That’s Thom’s Helmet.

proven granite
#

Yes but that's also B312's helmet in this trailer

agile lotus
#

I mean, just very slight retcons to trailers aren’t all that bad, right?

proven granite
#

Speaking of retcons to trailers, is it possible to place the 2013 E3 trailer in between Halo 4 and 5?

agile lotus
#

It was just to represent Halo coming to the Xbox One.

#

We’re not getting Poncho Chief.

#

Even though I’d love to play as one, even for a mission.

proven granite
#

Yes but we could fit it in between The Next 72 Hours and Halo 5

agile lotus
#

“Could” and “Should” are not interchangeable terms.

proven granite
#

Not once did I use should in this sense.

carmine sleet
#

I mean, I'm not going to consider the Halo Infinite trailer we have as canon unless they give us a good reason as to why it is. Same with the trailer from 2013

tall moat
#

Strange how Halopedia has already taken some of it for fact

last anchor
#

Well I mean, chief rescuing Marines in a Warthogs pretty canon for the most part. CEs second level anyone?

carmine sleet
#

Chief rescuing marines in a hog in CE means nothing to whether this tailer is canon or not

last anchor
#

Im just saying hes done it before so its POSSIBLE

carmine sleet
#

Still not good evidence that the trailer is canon

versed helm
#

Who is stating the Slip space trailer is cannon?

#

That's like saying every single picture/video/art/fan creation of Halo is canon lol.

glacial sandal
#

Except 343i has a habit of retroactively canonising everything they make anyway

carmine sleet
#

@glacial sandal They haven't retconned the E3 trailer from back in 2013 so that's not the case

tall moat
#

Haven’t retconned means they retroactively canonised

#

Why is it not the case @carmine sleet ?

carmine sleet
#

I meant as in it hasn't been retconned into the continuity, should've been clearer. My bad

#

As far as we know, that trailer is non-canon

tall moat
#

Ooh

versed helm
#

Now that i think about it...how did Buck get off Reach?

tall moat
#

Ooh yea

#

New Blood has this line:
‘After Reach fell to the Covenant, we hauled a** back home to help out with the Battle for Earth.’

#

On the UNSC Say My Name perhaps?

versed helm
#

Speaking of the UNSC Say My Name..whatever became of that ship?

#

I'm betting that it was destroyed by Truth's fleet

tall moat
#

On my way to ‘pedia as we speak

#

Nothing about it. Conflicting sources, but I’d say it was a Marathon cruiser rather than frigate... didn’t see any of the former personally during H3 so probably destroyed by Truth yeah.

versed helm
#

Now that i think about it..what was the final death toll for the battle of Earth?

tall moat
#

Billions

versed helm
#

IIRC..didn't Serin Osman say that the death toll was somewhere in the low billions

tall moat
#

I wouldn’t expect it to be more than 3-4 billion

versed helm
#

I'm betting 2 billion

#

But it would also depend on how many people were evacuated and how many others chose to stay and fight

#

Now there's an interesting planet

#

Wasnt netherop mentioned in silent storm?

#

Yeah it was that's where I recognized it

#

But it did say that the planet was once inhabited by an unknown race that died out due to the excessive heat caused by greenhouse gasses

maiden mica
#

I wonder what the UNSC and UEG policy on interstellar hygiene is

#

What I mean that is, today we sterilize carefully and meticulously everything we send to space so we don't contaminate foreign planets

#

But a ship full with soldiers that get shot, bleed and even die on the harsh battlefields doesn't exactly sound clean at all

carmine sleet
#

Likely stricter than what we have now

maiden mica
#

Perhaps

versed helm
#

?

#

yes @versed helm

#

can u stop pinging me

#

pinged you once

#

wait twice

#

but you wanted to go here so what do you need

woeful sierra
#

I mean they do have portable sterilization lights. They use them to instantly create an operating room, or at least that's how I figured

woeful sierra
#

However the troop-carrying section of Pelicans is called the "blood tray" because its corrugated surface catches wounded soldiers' blood so well.

#

So we've got two sides of the same coin here.

coarse beacon
#

Just saw something in the reddit and thought it’s a good question. Why do weapons change scale between Marine and Spartan(Spartan 100%,Marines 99%)

#

(Hypothetically brutes 130%)

woeful sierra
#

@coarse beacon You mean comparing the weapons' models?

#

Because that could be because it automatically scales it to the person's model. Spartans are a good head taller than normal marines, so it sort of makes sense that they would be downscaled to look proportional to the marines.

#

But I haven't really noticed that happening. I know that in CE, weapons on the ground are ridiculously oversized compared to how they look in your hands. Probably to be more visible.

limpid kernel
#

I think in ce and Halo 2, they are only oversized in multiplayer

woeful sierra
#

Hm, I never noticed in 2. I don't doubt you though.

limpid kernel
#

I may or may not be wrong for Halo 2, but I know it for ce

woeful sierra
#

This made me think of Zelda: Breath of the Wild. When weapons are on the ground, they are the same size that they appear when Link has them equipped. If a large monster like a moblin or lynel uses a weapon, it automatically becomes bigger to be proportional to their much larger bodies

limpid kernel
#

I heard somewhere grunts can run faster using their arms on the ground too is it true

left depot
#

I don't know about lorewise but biologically that holds up

versed helm
#

Considering their arms are twice the size of their legs it’s possible

limpid kernel
#

They should use it to their advantage to flee from enemies

#

Not in gameplay though

versed helm
#

Trying to headshot an upside down triangle would be rather difficult

woeful sierra
#

Sometimes they walk like gorillas, iirc. You see it in CE but I’m not sure if they kept that

severe elbow
#

They did it in the prologue of The Fall of Reach, too.

woeful sierra
#

Ah. Combat Evolved was kind of like A New Hope. It was great, but they didn’t quite know what they were doing.

dusty pilot
#

anyone else see on the Original Xbox Halo 2 that sometimes the Dead Marines on the level Delta Halo were still blinking their eyes on the ground?

happened to me a few times back in the day, quite creepy.

carmine sleet
#

Happens with Brute bodies too

woeful sierra
#

They’re just playing dead

limpid kernel
#

Halo 2 is actually a movie the cast is producing

severe elbow
#

"I will continue my campaign for an Oscar."
"No, you will not."

charred flower
#

^

static trench
#

I wonder if we'll get a major time skip in the next Halo game

#

Would be nice to see Humanity advance a bit more

versed helm
#

I'm wondering..iirc..didn't it say that the Covenant never used their full military might against the UNSC?

static trench
#

I hope we see the Librarian again

#

Such a shame that the JK was taken from Halsey when the Librarian originally gave it to her

severe elbow
#

Define major. The Infinite trailer says it'll take place in 2560.

static trench
#

what year did Halo 5 end in-universe? @severe elbow

versed helm
#

Wasn't it 2559?

severe elbow
static trench
#

well dang, that ain't long at all :/

severe elbow
#

In October.

static trench
#

a little over a year later

severe elbow
#

Halo Wars 2 was March-April 2559, with Operation: SPEARBREAKER being in May and AtN in June.

static trench
#

hmm

obsidian thistle
#

@severe elbow it doesnt say it will take place in 2560. More so its something that looks like a date but could very easy be a code or some random string of numbers.

I find its best not to deal in absolutes in a trailer like this.

severe elbow
#

I go with what they give me.

obsidian thistle
#

By all means it could even be a miscalibrated clock. Like Jenkins in Halo CE/CEA

versed helm
#

What does everyone think Jais last name is?

feral perch
#

Smock

#

Jai Smock

versed helm
#

Only a sith deals in absolutes

obsidian thistle
#

Did you know that Spock is a canon character @feral perch

feral perch
#

From Star Trek?

severe elbow
#

Dunno. Jai Dunno.

obsidian thistle
#

Nope

#

Spock is a cat

proven granite
#

So why do people say that we still don't know how Jun got off Reach even though we can assume that he likely just evacuated Castle Base along with everyone else?

feral perch
#

Pics or it didn't happen

obsidian thistle
#

Thats essentially it

proven granite
#

So then why hasn't it been stated officially yet so that we can just put it to rest?

obsidian thistle
#

And for Jun to leave would be for Jun to break his orders from Carter

proven granite
#

We could just say that he was ordered to evacuate

feral perch
#

343i really hasn't touched Reach lore very much

#

not sure if there's a particular reason

obsidian thistle
#

343i have touch it a lot

feral perch
#

when

obsidian thistle
#

We have reasons and lore for nearly everything now bar Jun and Red Team

feral perch
#

you mean the graphic novels and stuff from loot crate?

obsidian thistle
#

Data Drops, Halo: Fleet Battles Scenarios, Halo Mythos

#

Not the lootcrate data drops also

feral perch
#

Oh, I don't own Mythos.

obsidian thistle
#

Mythos doesnt add that much mind you to the reach stuff

proven granite
#

It could literally just be explained in some loot crate intel with some orders from Holland ordering Jun to evac.

#

But no the last intel drop had to be a pelican...

obsidian thistle
#

That Pelican was interesting no lie

feral perch
#

Did it hold a fragment of Mendicant Bias?

proven granite
#

Well yes but let's admit that it was a bit of a waste of intel.

sturdy arch
#

We are still missing info on Gauntlet Echo (and Red?) teams

obsidian thistle
#

It did give a possible name for the Reach Pelican

#

We know they are Spartan-IIIs @sturdy arch

proven granite
#

Which could've been in a canon fodder article

sturdy arch
#

Yeah we dont know anything past that

#

Which is interesting

#

(would also be better than a pelican schematic :P)

obsidian thistle
#

The schematic did make me study the three D77 Pelican variants

proven granite
#

Which are?

#

CE, Reach and H2A?

obsidian thistle
#

The CEA and H2A gameplay one
The Reach one
The H2 gameplay and H2A blur cutscene one

#

All three have differences with one another

proven granite
#

Why can't things be simple?

sturdy arch
#

Still though with the amount of information they could cover why is a Pelican schematic important lore-wise

#

I cant help but feel its a cop out

obsidian thistle
#

Thats on Bungie calling everything the D77 xD

#

And always redesigning everything

proven granite
#

Bring back the CE Rocket Hog and rename the one introduced in Reach as the "AA-Hog" (which is technically correct)

feral perch
#

^^^

#

this

obsidian thistle
#

It would be a niche vehicle. But I likey

proven granite
#

Also what's up with the Halo 4 Warthog having Reach turrets for the Gauss and AA and a new turret for the chain gun, only for Halo 5 to have the same warthogs except with completely new turrets?

obsidian thistle
#

Well the old stuff is still used. Halo 5 has both rocket hog turrets. You just cant use 1.

proven granite
#

That's cool

#

Like how the Halo CE Magnum is in Halo 2

obsidian thistle
#

I need to like get a rocket hog next to that now so we can legit have a visual comparison.

proven granite
#

What map is that on?

obsidian thistle
#

Any Warzone map with a central fortress building thing with a garage inside it

proven granite
#

Also what about the curved energy sword and the more angular one, is there any explanation for that?

obsidian thistle
#

You talking Halo CE/2 vs almost all future energy swords?

proven granite
#

Yeah pretty much

obsidian thistle
#

I put it to magnetic fields forming the blade in different ways

proven granite
#

And the personal preference of the wielder? Or the blades being manufactured by different sources?

obsidian thistle
#

Presumably a mix of both

proven granite
#

Now I wonder why AA Wraiths weren't used during the falcon portion of Tip of the Spear.

lament kettle
#

probably because there weren't any AA wraiths modeled for reach

#

the easy lazy answer is the covenant wasn't expecting an air assault on the spire

obsidian thistle
#

Either they were not in the compliment the Covie force had. Or they are off screen either in use elsewhere or not deployed at all

lament kettle
#

granted there were plenty of AA shades in the area

proven granite
#

Yes but reusing models from Halo 3 wouldn't be a problem because they would only be far away

#

Thus they wouldn't have had to have made a new model

obsidian thistle
#

Ahh never use the "reuse models" thing. A dev dies inside every time someone says that

lament kettle
#

lets go back to 2010 and throw you on the development team so you can tell bungie that lol

proven granite
#

bet

lament kettle
#

also gameplay wise, the AA wraiths would destroy your falcon since it was on a scripted path

#

it made sense in halo 3 because you had full control of the hornet during the covenant mission

proven granite
#

Let's not forget that the AA turrets could do the same if you didn't destroy them first

#

In fact, I think the AA turrets have a higher rate of fire and higher dps

#

AA Shades*

versed helm
#

Have there been any medical engineers in books or other things? Cause I remember in I think glasslands an engineer talking about how someone needed a medical engineer or something like that

fair hazel
#

yes

unique rune
#

As in Huragok Engineers?
Because Last Light (I think?) dealt with a Lifeworker Huragok that patched up Castor.

vale fern
#

yup

fair hazel
#

I hope we get the lifeworker huragoks soon

#

huragoks are amazing

versed helm
#

Engineers are cool

glacial sandal
#

We got Lifeworker Huragoks in Glasslands

#

Where they fixed up Lucy

versed helm
#

Thought Lucy was “fixed” because halsey was abusing an engineer

glacial sandal
#

That was just a big reveal - before the Huragoks fixed her up but couldn't figure out why she wasn't speaking

#

Was that also the part where the Huragok in question hit Halsey back?

#

God the Halsey-hating in that book was attrocious

feral perch
#

They even got Naomi to hate on her

#

IMO S-IIs should see her as a motherly figure, not a monster, because whining is bad in fiction

last anchor
#

Ahh yes Kilo-5s Halsey ragefest.

#

My money is on Traviss being told "make her a bad guy" because 343 needed her to be one (for some reason? Maybe for her apperances in 4) and this is what she came up with

#

Also; no. No Spartan-II whining of ANY kind please. What so ever.

#

Space Marines do not WHINE

glacial sandal
#

If done so much better (and so much briefer), it would have been an interesting perspective

#

But it shouldn't have went on as long as it did

versed helm
#

Speaking of Halsey..was she ever notified about Jacob Keye's death?

glacial sandal
#

She probably was - she was told Miranda was dead

#

Sounds like a very Parangosky to go 'Your projects have been hijacked, your home has been burned, your husband and child are dead, etc'

upper star
#

I would like to know when we are going to see AA scorpions

#

Also, while shades have higher damage and ROF they aren't mobile so AA wraiths should have also been employed

glacial sandal
#

Isn't the Sun Devil an AA Scorpion?

#

Ik, you mean in-game. It'd always be cool to see more variants on existing vehicles

obsidian thistle
#

Ahh the Sun Devil

#

A cool vehicle indeed

upper star
#

@glacial sandal yeah in game, I was kinda hoping halo 5 might have been it's debut

#

Quad 40mm cannons giving hostile aircraft the good news

versed helm
#

Might be a bit awkward to balance in traditional Halo BTB. Depends on how they decide to expand on that in Infinite.

upper star
#

Hmmm.. I think for BTB reasons you could have the cannons have a spool time so they fire slowly to start then rapid fire after 1.5 secs or so. Again for warzone reasons the damage can be only slightly higher than an AA wraith since they don't track but have a proximity burst ability only against air targets. For ground targets it has to contact the target.

#

The armour could be weaker to standard scorpion armour but have a faster turning turrent and higher top speed

carmine sleet
#

Having proximity burst against aircraft but not against anything else might make it feel inconsistent. Still a cool idea though

upper star
#

Well it's more for warzone balancing than actual practically

#

Or the proximity burst for ground targets isn't as wide as it is for air targets

#

And causes less damage to armoured vehicles like tanks but the burst is enough to flip a warthog or ghost if fired under it

#

If there is to be a variant it would either be an ONI variant with more potent shells for the cannons and a secondary fire of SPKeR AA missiles or a Hannibal with heavy gauss repeaters and secondary ion missiles

#

All three have the pindel mounted MG, varied to suit the type

last anchor
#

I get the feeling making it be basiaclly the AA Wraith without tracking for the shells might work pretty good.

obsidian thistle
#

OOhh so I found that weird source of Onyx from 2006 prior the events in the book Ghosts of Onyx.

#

Plus its a interesting interview with Eric Nylund

last anchor
#

Hey sweet

left depot
#

Are the lifespans of the humanoid covenant species particularly longer/shorter than humans?

vale fern
#

longer

#

Sangheili/San 'Shyuum

left depot
#

Do you know by how much? And how age affects them? Like, will a Sangheili end up largely crippled by the age of 100 but live til 130 or anything like that?

obsidian thistle
#

Well folks new Halo comic coming January 2nd 2019 folks.

#

And its all about Linda. A interesting choice I wont lie

fair hazel
#

Oh yes. My favourite spartan

vale fern
#

@left depot

#

The species is remarkably long-lived; Sangheili over 60 or 70 years of age have shown to be fully fit for combat duty, and Jul 'Mdama was considered young, at least in keep elder terms, at 64 years old, while by 851 BCE, 'Crecka was over 90 years old. Circa 100,000 BCE Sangheili life expectancy was 27 Earth years.

#

From the Halopedia

left depot
#

Must have missed that bit. Thanks

obsidian thistle
#

Ahh that stuff

#

Catalog rocked with weird obscure lore like the pre-array Sangheili life expectancy

left depot
#

Trying to get all my info right for roleplay characters, but I keep missing important stuff like that when I read through pages XD

severe elbow
#

As in a tabletop RPG?

left depot
#

Nah, that would need non-faceless people. Internet RP. Though I'm using SWTOR coz I don't like text based RP and Halo does not currently have a better fit MMORPG.

upper star
#

Looking forward to that actually, I welcome any story about other Spartan contributions during the war

#

Is it just me or does that cowboy looking AI give me the impression we might get more of a jist of linda mind

severe elbow
#

Do you mean gist?

feral perch
#

Holy cow, YES

#

A comic series all about Linda?!

#

This needs to be great

last anchor
#

NORNFANG

crude steeple
#

I just found out that Johnson was 80. What?

severe elbow
#

Says between 70 and 75 on Halopedia.

last anchor
#

Thats his chronological age. Biologically he was most likely younger. He spent a lot of time in cryo remember, since he fought in quite a few of the important battles of the Covenant War

obsidian thistle
#

343i has been secretive on his birth year for some reason.

#

No idea why tbh

last anchor
#

Cause they dont wanna accidentally step on a toe somewhere? I think they mentioned that in one of their lore livestreams, they COULD nail some stuff down but they dont want too until they HAVE too

unique rune
#

either that or they're gonna reveal that Johnson has actually existed since the beginning of time
and that he's actually a Precursor
that survived his death on Installation 00

I need to get more sleep

static trench
#

😦

#

I thought it was going to be about Noble Six during the Lone Wolf mission 😦

low idol
#

johnson is the primordial lol

#

didnt the primordial basically become the will of the flood? or part of it thinkingchief

dry rose
#

@low idol the primordials where the most advanced species in halo, but the practically gave the mantle of responsibility to humanity instead of the forerunners, the didact responded with out rage and went to war with the primordials to which they tried to escape by grinding themselves into a dust of sorts. When they tried to come back they morphed Into grave minds which started the flood out break

#

Johnson was a Spartan I

low idol
#

but the didact puts the primordial in a some sort of chamber that makes a billion years go by in seconds... breaking its body down and almost killing it. and its conscience at least helped the flood after that for some time take revenge. guessing it still is. the humans feed the dust to their animals, then after years and years they became the flood. (from what ive heard)

dry rose
#

No the grave mind is just a morphed primordial, it held it's knowledge, but was trapped by the forerunner, when you were talking to the grave mind in H2 and H3 you were talking to a primordial.

#

And that's how the grave minds made the logic plague

low idol
#

the primordial was the "last" precursor. graveminds are advanced flood forms

dry rose
#

Yes

#

That's why he speaks in riddles

#

He's so advanced that he speaks in riddles and tricks the Arbiter and Chief, along with making AI rebel

#

It's really cool if you take the time to read on it

#

I'd be down for a ancient human and forerunner war game

low idol
#

ive been watching hidden's videos. the flood is so smart, because it has the knowledge of everyone it has consumed. and probably the primordial. can even corrupt AI

dry rose
#

No the grave mind can

#

Look up the logic plague

low idol
#

yes it was first used by the primordial on mendicant

drowsy mesa
#

@dry rose The Primordial was BOTH a Precursor and a Gravemind

regal knot
#

yeet

#

^

dry rose
#

Yeah

#

My point

#

But he did it as a grave mind

#

Or after he was morphed

low idol
#

he did it before his body was destroyed by the didact

dry rose
#

Which caused another level of choas in the war

drowsy mesa
#

@dry rose the Primordial was altered 10 millions years ago

regal knot
#

is mendicant bias still a thing in the current time of halo

dry rose
#

I believe so

#

Actually yes he is

regal knot
#

and did Cortana get logic plague oofed?

drowsy mesa
#

@regal knot the last time we heard about Mendicant was during the events of Halo 3, helping John-117 to estabilize Installation 08 to allow Chief escape

regal knot
#

ah

#

ok

drowsy mesa
#

BTW, the Logic Plague is not a virus or an infection, it's more like phylosophical manipulation

regal knot
#

brainwashing

dry rose
#

Kinda but no

low idol
#

the gravemind did have cortana for a while

dry rose
#

He did

drowsy mesa
#

yeah, but she didn't fell

dry rose
#

From the end of halo 2 through 3

#

If she fell it would have been devastating for humanity

regal knot
#

in Halo 3 you just had Cortana Vietnam flashbacks

low idol
#

unless this is all part of the plan

dry rose
#

That's the grave mind communicating with you

low idol
#

remember the flood/precursors liked the humans, and spared them early on

dry rose
#

Yeah

drowsy mesa
#

they only spared them to make the Forerunners believed they found a cure, and spend resources to find a cure it never existed

low idol
#

so thats maybe why if cortana is corrupted it wasnt bad for humans

dry rose
#

No

regal knot
#

but at the end of Halo 5

dry rose
#

It would have been the end for humanity

regal knot
#

she literally has an army of space robot angel things and a Halo ring

#

is that good for humanity?

dry rose
#

Cortana holds everything humanity has to offer in her mind

#

But what we're seeing now is said to be a fragment of Cortana

low idol
#

but the precursors/flood dont want to kill all humans.. they are probably going to give them the test for the mantel

regal knot
#

didn't the mantle get blown up

drowsy mesa
#

but the Precursor's plan was no species would rebel against them again, including humans

low idol
#

hmmm

drowsy mesa
#

@regal knot He means the Mantle of Responsibility, not the Mantle's Approach

dry rose
#

To be fair the ultimate for of evolution would be the flood

regal knot
#

o

#

ok

dry rose
#

If everyone was taken by the flood they would be one and there would be no need for the mantle

low idol
#

but its not good in any way, it just kills everything it can

dry rose
#

Yes

#

But that's another discussion

regal knot
#

and gets

#

knowledge

dry rose
#

Yeah

#

That's why Jacob Keyes was a really bad loss

low idol
#

one more thing though, one of the last things the primordial said was - the humans will eventually succeed the forerunners (rip didact) , and then receive the ultimate test for the mantel

dry rose
#

Yeah

low idol
#

so maybe cortana does have the logic plague. the gravemind/primordial could have corrupted her, to set up the ultimate test.

dry rose
#

This could be true

proven granite
#

The Cortana seen in Halo 5 are the rampant fragments split off at the end of Halo 4

dry rose
#

That's what I said earlier

#

This is only a fragment of Cortana

proven granite
#

In Tales from Slipspace, you can see that it's multiple fragments

dry rose
#

@proven granite Unrelated to the lore but in RVB they split the Alpha AI into fragments

proven granite
#

Yes and Halo: First Strike did that even prior to RVB

dry rose
#

Exactly

proven granite
#

It's actually really nice how Halo 4 stays true to the lore of the original books

dry rose
#

Yeah

low idol
#

what if the primordial is the one who corrupted the dust of his own kind. in order to create the flood

proven granite
#

Have you read the forerunner trilogy?

low idol
#

no

dry rose
#

Yes

drowsy mesa
#

@low idol it was time itself who corrupted the Precursors' remaining

proven granite
#

Time wasn't their ally

low idol
#

yeah thats what i heard. but seems kinda strange it just becomes crazy over time. wouldnt it be interesting if it was done on purpose, and left in hopes the forerunner would find it. in a act of revenge for their betrayal

dry rose
#

Yeah

proven granite
#

The Precursor dust was found by ancient Humans not forerunners

versed helm
#

Halo 5: space owls

dusty pilot
#

Halo: Infinite War

limpid kernel
#

Hey

#

Plasma melts through metal right?

dusty pilot
#

idk

severe elbow
#

Yeah. At least it can with enough of it.

limpid kernel
#

I guess the mark V got melted a bit since I think I heard it took a lot of damage at the start of Halo 2

#

Also is it canon that arbiter has a motion sensor? Or if he even has a HUD at all

severe elbow
#

I bet he has an equivalent, even if it's not literally represented in-game.

modest marsh
#

@limpid kernel most of the damage to Chief’s Mark V was internal

#

Shields blunted most but not all of the punishment from veritable plasma weaponry and explosives

tall moat
#

Just got Bad Blood... Buck is definitely the type of guy to shout ‘Woot!’ as the Infinity emerges from slipspace 😂

carmine sleet
#

I love the bit just after but I won't spoil it for you

tall moat
#

I love the bit where Chief and Arbiter reminisce about the war through the night

carmine sleet
#

Aye, that was a good part

tall moat
#

Yasss I finally get to read solid material post-Halo 5

#

Hmmm... Buck calls the assemblage bay where they remove MJOLNIR the ‘de-Spartanizing chamber’

#

But wasn’t the message from previous trilogies ‘Spartans are more than the sum of their armor and augmentations’?

#

MJOLNIR is nothing without the Spartan

carmine sleet
#

That's just Buck being Buck

tall moat
#

Or the author being inconsistent 🤔

brisk cape
#

I’d say it’s just Buck being Buck.

visual lantern
#

does anyone know how many spartan 1s survived

severe elbow
#

Nope.

#

Only ones whose deaths are unconfirmed are the ones in I Love Bees.

#

Gladys Wilson, Morales, and Gilly are the only named ones we know of that are alive.

visual lantern
#

of all people he killed

#

he killed the best character other than cortana

spiral jewel
#

I'm not sure if this is the correct place to put this...

But to Join into the above conversation about her, I think that there is more to [the] Cortana [ fragment]'s actions in H5 than meets the eye. Perhaps the fragment of her that is in H5 is the side if her that is furious at the universe for taking away the people she truly cares for, which is probably why the fragment kidnapped Blue Team, is to protect them.

But I honestly don't know what her mental state was at the time. I could be wrong

last anchor
#

Considering Cortana ejected multiple rampant personality fragments from herself during "Midnight" I would say thats probable. We just got unlucky the one that survived was the mad one

spiral jewel
#

That's a possibility

versed helm
#

Remind me...wasn't Far Isle that one UEG colony whose Insurrection got so out of control to the point where the UNSC had to use nuclear weapons in order to end it

severe elbow
#

Yeah.

versed helm
#

I wonder what became of the planet afterwards

severe elbow
#

Well, when it says the Colony was nuked, I'm assuming "Colony" specifically refers to the settlement on the planet, not the planet as a whole.

versed helm
#

I'm guessing that the planet was glassed at some point

severe elbow
#

Well, if no one was living on it, it'd be fine.

#

Even then, the Covenant missed a lot of planets. They didn't get every one humanity had.

versed helm
#

It would explain why Forseti and Andesia survived

#

So how many colonies in total survived the war

severe elbow
#

No idea. 343 haven't given a total number of total Colonies or how many survived.

versed helm
#

Andesia

#

Cascadia

#

Forseti

severe elbow
#

We know Andesia, Forseti, Sigma Octanus IV, Earth. More if we count Insurrectionist planets.

versed helm
#

Ballast

#

Gilgamesh i think

severe elbow
#

Neos Atlantis.

versed helm
#

Minister

#

Concord

severe elbow
#

Losing Hand

versed helm
#

Groombridge 1830 maybe

#

New Harmony

#

Terra Nova maybe

#

Am i missing any planets?

versed helm
#

hmm

#

thinkingchief wrong

feral perch
#

is Harvest habitable?

versed helm
#

Halo rings killed all the flood

humble yacht
#

all the bigger forms, at least

obsidian thistle
#

Halos did not kill the Flood. It was a mix of the array, Solvent, and lack of hosts.

feral perch
#

The shell of High Charity is someplace I'd love to explore

#

except yanno

#

It's full of Floody bois

humble yacht
#

Halos render large flood forms useless. combat forms and larger just drop

obsidian thistle
#

Yep

humble yacht
#

Solvent dissolves the remains so they don't fudge up ecosystems

obsidian thistle
#

If the Solvent is there. The bodies go also

#

High Charity however does not have said solvent

humble yacht
#

surviving spores can't latch onto anything new, so no new flood forms

#

But yes, my theory is that all that biomass in HC was leftover

#

so effectively the infestation had a head start in restarting

obsidian thistle
#

The scary thing thing is. In space if anything died that wasnt covered in the solvent

#

It would still be there

humble yacht
#

it would be frozen, though

obsidian thistle
#

A time capsle

humble yacht
#

unless it got caught in a grav field

#

like a planet's

#

then it would burn up on entry

obsidian thistle
#

ONI do have Forerunner remains

feral perch
#

Wait forreal?

obsidian thistle
#

*Halo Forerunner trilogy goes over that. More specifically Silentium

humble yacht
#

got librarian's finger?

#

lol

versed helm
#

Chimera, if what you say is correct, then how did the Flood infestation restart at all? The flood can't just "re-create a nervous system" out of nothing, especially one where it's gravemind was rendered back into a proto-gravemind.

#

due to a heavy loss of biomass

obsidian thistle
#

A Catalog with a body inside it that was almost "rotted away".

A fossilized "Juridical" also

humble yacht
#

I dunno

#

that's where I'd need more explanation

versed helm
#

in other words as I was already stating

#

the halo ring never fired
all nervous systems remained intact

obsidian thistle
#

Oh Delta Halo thats the big mystery

versed helm
#

and any flood bio mass got destroyed due to the heavy fire and plasma from the ring exploding.

humble yacht
#

I fundamentally disagree with that

#

It makes more sense to me that the Halo fired

versed helm
#

well your explanation doesn't make much sense to what has been shown already, while mine does.

humble yacht
#

not really

severe elbow
#

Are we talking about Installation 08? Because that's confirmed to have fired.

versed helm
#

flood having a existing and working nervous system, yes really

humble yacht
#

I submitted evidence that I believe supports the proper firing of the ring

versed helm
#

@severe elbow where has installation 04b aka 08 confirmed to of fired? would love to see 343 commenting on it

humble yacht
#

you said that could refer to the ring just exploding but I disagree with that

versed helm
#

so far the only evidence I see is the ring shook it-self to pieces upon firing, not that it completed it's firing sequence at all.

severe elbow
#

Grim or someone confirmed the reason the Flood in High Charity wasn't completely eradicated was because Installation 08 was fired prematurely.

versed helm
#

In other words, installation 08 never completed it's firing sequence.

severe elbow
#

So it wasn't 100% effective.

humble yacht
#

well duh it was fired prematurely

severe elbow
#

It did fire.

versed helm
#

which is what I've been stating this entire time

humble yacht
#

but what we don't know is the extent to which it was effective

#

it doesn't make sense to me that it would be partially effective

#

the mechanism as described in the lore shouldn't allow for that

obsidian thistle
#

Even then after the ring fired Spores could very easy attach to recently released creatures keeping the infection fed till smarter stuff came along

severe elbow
#

It could have to do with the "quality" of the pulse.

humble yacht
#

I mean, it's either enough to kill flood or its not

#

I don't see there being any in between

#

What, you give the gravemind a headache?

versed helm
#

Wasn't there a faction of humans/a rogue group of covenant that managed to create a small-scare Halo ring that was meant to destroy the Infinity?

#

Which it's halo ring could be effectively fired on personal and only leave them in a "dazed state" nothing to entirely eradicate it.

obsidian thistle
#

That was meant to be used on Sangheilios. And it was a prototype Halo of sorts. They didnt create it

versed helm
#

which is 100% how installation 04b worked. It left any intelligent life beings in a dazed state, nothing that eradicated it, and the resulting explosion along with Sentinels wiped out any remaining Flood force that was outside of high charity.

#

or at least that's how I'd imagine it for the Flood to have any sort of central nervous system at all in high charity.

humble yacht
#

and that idea sucks to me

#

because it complete ruins the impact of Halo 3 as a game

feral perch
#

Do you have an alternate?

versed helm
#

which book was it called?

humble yacht
#

basically you're saying that everything we did in Halo 3 was for nothing

versed helm
#

everything we did in Halo 3 was meant to finish the fight against the Covenant.

#

Not the flood.

#

the Covenant is no more.

humble yacht
#

No

versed helm
#

the Flood on the other hand is an entirely different beast.

humble yacht
#

Cortana said "It's finished. Truth, the Covenant, The Flood."

#

And MC is like "Yeah, it's finished"

last anchor
#

Though she was wrong on two counts

#

As the Covenant wasnt done and the Flood are still a threat SOMEWHERE

versed helm
#

Cortana said the Flood was finished based on the ring exploding and inconclusive data.

#

Nothing "definitive"

#

but she 100% knew the Covenant was finished

humble yacht
#

As a game, playing through all of Halo 3, you feel like you are first ending the Covenant, then the Flood.

versed helm
#

@last anchor Covenant is done. The only groups that exist are rogue groups with different beliefs/examples. The covenant empire is gone.

humble yacht
#

ATN nullifies that

#

which is why I hate it as a DLC

feral perch
#

I think that, considering the Flood were a much bigger threat than the Covenant in the original trilogy, it would be better to say that Halo 3 was as much about destroying that Flood as dismantling the Covenant

versed helm
#

No, existing lore even before ATN completely nullified the Flood being eradicated.

#

which they never were.

last anchor
#

The Forerunners saw to that

humble yacht
#

When I say eradicated, I mean gone for long periods of time

#

I fully expected the Flood to return eventually

versed helm
#

Not to mention all the other existing Flood containment cells and a possible Flood out break on Installation 07, along with the possibility of other Shield worlds having massive flood outbreaks based off Halo Wars 1.

humble yacht
#

like, 100,000 years later

versed helm
#

100,000 years later in the current halo timeline? lol no. I expected the Flood to have a return in under 10 years max.

#

The flood that returned to fight the Forerunners was of a massive scale, not small scale at all like in the current Halo timeline.

obsidian thistle
#

Funny thing

#

We have no idea how the Halo Wars 1 Flood outbreak started

severe elbow
#

You completely stop and stem the Flood infection in Halo 3 from wiping out all life. I don't think it ruins Halo 3's ending.

humble yacht
#

But that specific infestation, the one from Installation 05 and the ark, I wanted to be done for good

versed helm
#

@feral perch The Flood in Halo 3 wasn't that big of a threat all compared to what the Covenant was wanting. The Covenant was wanting to destroy all life, everything. The Flood was simply trying to exist and gather a large force to eradicate all life with.

You stopped the Flood for a short period of time from trying to infect all life again.
You 100% stopped the Covenant from eliminating all life based off a false religion.

severe elbow
#

It essentially was. It had to start from almost scratch.

versed helm
#

After all, Halo 1-3 was 100% about stopping the Covenant. Miranda Keys even states "We stop Truth 1st, then we deal with the Flood."

humble yacht
#

You deal with the Flood after truth

versed helm
#

343 guilty spark was even leaning more on stopping the Flood over stopping Truth at all, if not letting Truth continue because Guilty Spark was still on about the whole idea of eliminating all life for even just a small scale out break that could easily be contained.

humble yacht
#

The moment the Gravemind betrays you, the main baddie changes

versed helm
#

Either way, it was pretty obvious the infestation from Halo 2 and 3 survived.

#

If it wasn't obvious to you, I'm sorry but it's what I expected at least.

humble yacht
#

It wasn't obvious, at least not objectively

#

Not until ATN came out

severe elbow
#

It was not until they retconned it in AtN.

versed helm
#

the infestation from Halo 1 is gone though, or at least partially gone if any Flood remains still exist on the floating bits of the Halo ring.

humble yacht
#

or until some Catalog entry

#

maybe

severe elbow
#

Catalog never commented on it, I'm pretty sure.

#

He mentioned an outbreak on Zeta Halo.

versed helm
#

@severe elbow nothing was ever retconned. It was just obvious, the Ark never got destroyed.

humble yacht
#

But if I went to Joe Staten and asked if the flood was supposed to be gone after Halo 3, I think he'd say "yes"

versed helm
#

doubt it.

severe elbow
#

It was a total retcon. The Flood is implied to be gone at the end of Halo 3.

versed helm
#

New lore overwrites old lore

humble yacht
#

beauty of opinions

versed helm
#

If 343 says differently then it’s differently. It’s not a matter of bungie said 343 said

#

The Flood is implied to be gone based off on inconclusive data. The flood was still very much alive, and tons of theories even implied that the Halo ring never fired correctly (if at all and it didn't just explode out right), which it didn't judging from a "premature firing".

humble yacht
#

yeah but those were just theories

versed helm
#

theories that made sense.

humble yacht
#

and still are, as far as I'm concerned

severe elbow
#

Theories can make sense and not be true.

versed helm
#

how does a halo ring that isn't even in the shape of a circle, fire correctly?

humble yacht
#

Well I think it makes more sense that the ring fired correctly

versed helm
#

Not to me lol.

humble yacht
#

again, beauty of opinions

obsidian thistle
#

Tip in life. Implied doesnt mean confirmed in terms of lore. Imagine any gap as a possibility

#

343i certainly do that a lot

versed helm
#

if your telling me a massive super structure that had to be incredibly precisely made just so it could support it's own gravity managed to fire correctly in such a alpha state of construction, you're wrong 100%.

humble yacht
#

If you're telling me that a fictional structure beyond the laws of physics needs to follow the same rules as a gun, you're 100% wrong

versed helm
#

after all, how does a halo ring that isn't even in the shape of a circle, fire correctly?

humble yacht
#

All the Halo needed to fire was a control room and the few generators spread out across the ring

versed helm
#

which those generators were still being created.

humble yacht
#

Apparently enough were created to fire

versed helm
#

nothing was finished at all, and the control room wasn't even finished.

#

Enough were created for a premature firing, not a 100% firing.

#

which also resulted in total destruction of the ring it-self.

humble yacht
#

I'm fine with the ring destroying itself in the process

versed helm
#

If 343 has not said “X is why Y happened” then there’s no true reason y happened

humble yacht
#

But I think it's possible for the ring to have fired in that incomplete state

obsidian thistle
#

Regardless 343i used the gaps in lore like Cortana not seeing the whole thing.

humble yacht
#

it's lack of finish being why it only had one shot

obsidian thistle
#

All we have to go off the actual event is the outcome and 1 line from Cortana that could be heavily wrong.

versed helm
#

@obsidian thistle Cortana didn't need to see the whole thing, everything she pulled was inconclusive at best. She even stated in Halo 4 "possible Rogue factions of the Covenant" stuff in halo 4.

#

or the whole "I thought we were allies with the elites"
Cortana - "A lot can happen in 4 years."

humble yacht
#

All Grim said about it was "we don't know alot about the rings"

versed helm
#

either way she was also being affected by the Gravemind after spending nearly a month with it.

severe elbow
#

Cortana's assessment of the destruction of the Flood was meant to be factual to give you thematic closure on the events of the original trilogy. 343 simply made her statement incorrect to open a plot thread.

#

Which I'm fine with, for the record.

#

I love AtN.

humble yacht
#

which sucks to me

#

because i don't like it when previous actions are rendered pointless

severe elbow
#

I'd argue it wasn't pointless.

versed helm
#

@humble yacht pretty much what Grimm said even agrees with what I've been telling you -
"Even Spark spoke of how variable the tuning could be."

humble yacht
#

well, didn't work how we were led to believe, and ultimately didn't do the job it was supposed to do

versed helm
#

Well that’s what happens when the previous studio wants to close the franchise and the new studio needs to open it

humble yacht
#

@versed helm what grim said doesn't suggest the ring didn't fire at all though

#

And he's purposefully being vague so they can do whatever they want with the lore in the future

obsidian thistle
#

There is that

#

Thats the origin of the premature firing line

versed helm
#

Bungie wanted to close the franchise since Halo 2. That's why they started killing characters left and right with Halo 3, and because they knew 343 was going to take over development, they left the legendary ending of Halo 3 so 343 could get started on it.

humble yacht
#

So what grim needs to do is explain how you can have a half firing and how such a pulse would work

obsidian thistle
#

Imagine it like waves

humble yacht
#

Where you getting that info, nighter?

#

a source or your opinion?

versed helm
#

Same way you can have a proto-type Halo ring have controlled frequencies that you can test it at.

severe elbow
#

I'd assume the pulse wasn't at 100% power or there were gaps in its firing.

versed helm
#

The full on scale Halo ring would work in the same way, especially if it wasn't even at full power due to being in a alpha state of construction.

humble yacht
#

different power settings I'm fine with

#

but having some flood die but not others is where it becomes more confusing than it should

versed helm
#

@humble yacht post the question in full and we can pin it to the Channel

obsidian thistle
#

Or the "waves" were disturbed cause it waa blowing up at the same time.

humble yacht
#

what question?

versed helm
#

How much of the ring can fire and how would the pulse work and what not

#

Besides the fact that Bungie stated that Halo 2 is the worst Halo game to them, I'm pretty sure they just wanted to stop development of Halo entirely along with Reach being a "alpha" of sorts for Destiny's new abilities @humble yacht

humble yacht
#

Are we pinning lore questions here?

versed helm
#

Why not

#

Just that one

humble yacht
#

@versed helm but you have no source saying that the Legendary ending in 3 was specifically for 343 to have a jumping point

versed helm
#

plus Bungie quickly jumped on the idea of ODST being a full halo game for $60 after Microsoft asked them if they wanted to do that, so they wouldn't have to create Halo 4.

#

I’ve never seen 1 subject last 3 hours in here

humble yacht
#

@versed helm the pinned question should just be "How exactly did the Flood survive the firing of Installation 08?"

obsidian thistle
#

The Gravemind did not die persay. More so he lost the capacity to reach out to their conscious cause a lot of his force was then focused on I08 (that was destroyed) and also High Charity that was contained.

versed helm
#

@versed helm That's surprising, especially for Halo related lore. I've seen Halo related subjects last for days on end before lol

#

not in this discord server but on halo waypoint and so on, yeah.

humble yacht
#

@obsidian thistle "die" in this case isn't referring to physical destruction but rather the Flood's ability to operate

versed helm
#

Considering you can exchange text in seconds here vs waypoint it’s a little different

humble yacht
#

I'm fine with the idea that the biomass remained and spores remained that could restart the infestation

obsidian thistle
#

Heh @versed helm this is one of the big 12 debates Halo lore fans can discuss for days on end. The funny thing is we never fight over this one.

severe elbow
#

Isn't that what happened, though?

versed helm
#

I've seen Halo related subjects even in chatrooms like xat or other discord servers last for hours on end, and sometimes days in between to so Idk.

#

So the question his how did flood survive 08 and the answer is it didn’t kill it entirely?

#

Just kind of incapacitated it

obsidian thistle
#

Yep

#

Thats what we have

versed helm
#

Alright everybody go home

#

Show is over

#

The answer being: the ring fired prematurely due to only being partially constructed. 343's already given out the answer, it's in plain sight. Whether or not people want to accept that as an answer is up for debate, which is happening right now.

#

anyways show is over alright.

humble yacht
#

I don't accept that answer though

versed helm
#

Well answers are answers

#

If it’s in plain sight it doesn’t matter

humble yacht
#

It wasn't even answered like that

versed helm
#

It’s either an answer or it’s not

#

Talking to nighter

humble yacht
#

The closest thing to an answer we got is Grimm saying "Halo rings are tricky business"

versed helm
#

Then there’s not an answer

#

Just theories

#

But no answers

humble yacht
#

everything else in the lore is up to interpretation

#

because nothing specifically describes exactly what happened and how/why it happened

severe elbow
#

Grim did answer that somewhere. But it was months ago in a Tweet. I have no idea how to find it.