E-4 mafia is such an overglorified thing, I've found.
#lore-and-universe
empty bloom
Maybe when there were a lot less Corporals.
twin parcel
Now it's just doing questionable things for officers that need unconventional solutions.
modest marsh
It’s worth noting that Vale very likely got fast tracked because her daddy was a Spartan-II candidate that escaped his abductees because he was psychic
empty bloom
Besides, dubiously 'allowed' solutions are usually now more allowed, depending on the environment.
Part of my training as a mechanic was specifically pointing out that I was, in austere conditions and at commander directive, allowed to procure through other means for the vehicles I repaired.
To include theft or bartering with locals.
twin parcel
Man had that forerunner gene already unlocked 😂
empty bloom
And then improvising.
modest marsh
Man had that forerunner gene already unlocked 😂
It’s a little more complicated than that, or at least, I would hope so
twin parcel
To include theft or bartering with locals.
This also may encompass infantry getting booze.
empty bloom
The reason why it was at Commander Directive is because there is active concerns about doing such a thing, such as reducing cohesion and reliability.
As well as, under the worst conditions, reducing potential civilian goodwill.
modest marsh
I don’t like the idea of the librarian genetically engineering specific children to be super duper thousands of years later like the halo show depicts
empty bloom
What, you don't like creepy colonizer mommy?
She gave herself five fingers for us, Maggruber.
modest marsh
Well I’m saying it’s not as bad as it’s made out to be, at least
twin parcel
What, you don't like creepy colonizer mommy?
No, I prefer my 7 foot tall sniper mommies who can pick me up and throw me into the stratosphere.
empty bloom
Me on my way, for no reason, to explain why the Mantle of Responsibility is a horrible colonialist text.
modest marsh
A lot gets read into regarding her lines about “planting seeds”
empty bloom
Again.
Ugh. God. The Forerunners were so creepy about it.
That's half the reason I don't want humans to be forerunners, it's so... Ech.
twin parcel
Me on my way to explain to my girlfriend the entirety of Halo lore chronologically starting with Precursors and including Ancient Humanity and Charrum Hakkor (I broke her brain)
modest marsh
Do you hate her or something?
twin parcel
Humanity was born to inherit the stars, we were made in God's image.
modest marsh
The point about talking about it here is so you can do it without shame
twin parcel
Do you hate her or something?
I mean, personally, I think she's an alright character. I don't mind colonialism, it's natural in large empires to expand and we've seen this in human history. It all depends on how you go about doing it.
stoic hamlet
The point about talking about it here is so you can do it without shame
Jokes on you, I’m into that
Actually though
The best way to talk Halo lore is to go over it as it released.
twin parcel
Violent Colonialism usually is bad. I've yet to see colonialism in which both races manage to coexist peacefully though.
stoic hamlet
Start with the basics then expand as needed.
twin parcel
Start with the basics then expand as needed.
Good advice for life in general tbh.
twin parcel
I mean, personally, I think she's an alright character. I don't mind colonialism...
Colonialism is pretty natural for large empires, the Romans did it, the Greeks did it, most Mediterranean Civilizations did it. The British Empire did it and failed most of the time.
The Mongols colonized a large amount of the known world at their peak and still remain one of the largest empires human history has seen.
For spacefaring civilizations, Colonialism is even more important.
Resources that may be extremely rare or hard to get on a species Homeworld that are integral to something is probably one of the most common reasons in the Sci Fi genre for colonialism.
empty bloom
... The British were one of the single most successful colonial powers in history, in terms of actually acquiring terrain.
And utilizing it.
twin parcel
Holding it is a different story.
empty bloom
Do you hate her or something?
Was that directed at me?
frigid heart
... The British were one of the single most successful colonial powers in histor...
We would too, if it weren’t for those damned na’avi
modest marsh
No, it was a joke about talking to the uninitiated about obscure halo lore
empty bloom
Ah
empty bloom
We would too, if it weren’t for those damned na’avi
I mean Avatar 1 was basically just "Dances with Wolves" in space.
frigid heart
That’s why it’s so good
twin parcel
We would too, if it weren’t for those damned na’avi
My average stellaris playthrough be like.
empty bloom
I don't really care much about Avatar.
They aren't really narratively deep films, they're more about the technical spectacle, which is fine, I guess, I just don't care for that.
twin parcel
I just like it because the human tech is awesome.
Mechs wielding a tank cannon sized minigun is always awesome.
frigid heart
Totally
James Cameron is the military sci fi king
twin parcel
Fr
empty bloom
These days I mostly see it getting used as an excuse by 40K edgelords to draw their Space Marine edgelord OCs doing edgelord things.
twin parcel
Mechs wielding a tank cannon sized minigun is always awesome.
Also why Jorge is awesome
empty bloom
As though an 11 foot tall blue alien who shoots a bow with a draw strength high enough to puncture hardened armor plating would somehow be unable to kill a Space Marine.
twin parcel
These days I mostly see it getting used as an excuse by 40K edgelords to draw th...
They give a bad rep to the rest of the Warhammer community.
empty bloom
There's a reason I have caution around Black Templar fans.
... And DKoK fans.
And Blood Angel fans.
Really, just Imperium fans especially.
They attract a certain type of dude who either doesn't understand that getting an iron cross tattoo marks you as a certain type of person, or does and gets it anyways.
Sorry, Maltese cross.
twin parcel
I'm a fan of the Salamanders tbh
They're probably my favorite space marine chapter and they're also the most likeable as people.
They're still "normal"ish
And they care about civilians.
Love the fan art of Salamander marines saving kids and stuff.
Iirc most salamanders remain in contact with their family and do family activities, imagine your giant 4x great grand uncle sitting at the dinner table.
empty bloom
Yeah, that's one of the reasons I like them.
modest marsh
As though an 11 foot tall blue alien who shoots a bow with a draw strength high ...
This is especially funny when apparently rebar from an IED explosion does the job just fine
empty bloom
It's funny though, my favorite faction is the Iron Warriors.
modest marsh
twin parcel
Yeah, that's one of the reasons I like them.
They still act human. Which makes them likeable to me because they're the most relatable chapter.
empty bloom
I have two armies I like; People who give a crap about civilians and other people, and those who don't at all.
empty bloom
This is especially funny when apparently rebar from an IED explosion does the jo...
One died to a literal wooden stick! In his throat!
modest marsh
See, at least that guy may have not had his helmet on
empty bloom
He didn't IIRC
frigid heart
Kat ahh moment
empty bloom
I mean I know where he likely got stabbed too, IIRC he bled out, which means it's literally one possible artery
The one opposite the carotid
The coronary
IIRC the coronary is basically the worst thing to have severed because you bleed out so fast, that you wouldn't want to survive if you had it severed on an operating table with a team ready to go.
The only time I've ever heard of a guy surviving it, he still had brain damage from blood loss and oxygen starvation to the brain. And it was mostly because the doctor miraculously managed to find it and clamp it shut inside, because he guessed correctly where the wound went through.
Quickclotting blood won't do much to stop that.
tepid folio
Are there any Senghili that just work like a 9-5 in Senghilios or do all of them fight for the banished/covenant?
odd bloom
Are there any Senghili that just work like a 9-5 in Senghilios or do all of them...
most are evidently figthers
but theres no way its literally 100%
modest marsh
females, juveniles, and seniors often carry out the more civil duties
odd bloom
the swear filter is stupid
insanely so
now now we'll have the automated ai punish you for us!
tisk tisk!
this game series is about war and genocide....
wtf is with discords for franchises decidedly not kid oriented playing by disney clubhouse speech rules
mf youtube/corporatification of every speech platform and sanitization
modest marsh
wtf is with discords for franchises decidedly not kid oriented playing by disney...
like it or not there are a lot of minors in this server
im not pro censorship in this regard but its a rational choice for a franchise as big as halo to mitigate risk
odd bloom
im pretty sure the stuff minors have said in halo game chat historically have been about 30,000 times worse than anything ever said here
modest marsh
maybe but officially that type of stuff is discouraged and against TOS
modest marsh
i mean you act like there isnt an ongoing wave of cultural panic surrounding the influence video games have on the violent and antisocial tendencies of children and teens
boreal bane
Let's keep on topic please
modest marsh
right
modest marsh
Are there any Senghili that just work like a 9-5 in Senghilios or do all of them...
in any case, post war especially theres been a strong resurgence in the trades among what wouldve been traditionally fighting-age males
odd bloom
and post-war the sengili suddenly have to figure out how to be a civic society
and now they aren't allowed off the chain to go cowabunga on innocents willy nilly
(only when oni approves)
lol
modest marsh
the covenant and its caste system as well as post-scarcity technological capabilities made it effectively pointless for a good chunk of the population to know how to do anything beyond their specialization on a macroscale
now that system has been disrupted so people need to diversify a bit more
odd bloom
the covenant and its caste system as well as post-scarcity technological capabil...
are their plasma guns and etc really as short range and low velocity as in game
they move at like... car speeds lol
like you can dodge them with your feet
modest marsh
it depends?
we have stated figures for the likes of plasma rifle and pistol
and depending on the game, you get pretty inconsistent figures
but for the most part, they travel anywhere between 100-200m/s depending on the form factor
anything guided is significantly slower but the homing is very aggressive to compensate
odd bloom
why'd they go for such short range stuff?
modest marsh
within the prescribed 50-100 meter engagement range that they're intended for, its good enough
odd bloom
if they're perfectly willing to glass from orbit why play fair getting close instead of death beams from afar
modest marsh
why'd they go for such short range stuff?
the covenant are very, very good at getting close to you when they want to
and they like to
they're almost always on the attack, usually deploying straight from a loitering warship
odd bloom
it just like their honorific code about fighting and stuff seems to be at odds with the glassing strategy
that totally skips combat
modest marsh
glassing is expensive and risky
they wont do it immediately depending on the situation
you need ships of the appropriate tonnage with sufficiently powerful energy projectors to meaningfully glass a planet
and while doing so they are extremely vulnerable to anti-ship attacks, as seen in Reach
a relatively low yield MAC gun was able to take out a battlecruiser that would normally require 2-3 ship mounted MAC strikes and a barrage of archer missiles to secure a kill on
modest marsh
you need ships of the appropriate tonnage with sufficiently powerful energy proj...
they will, however, commit to other forms of strategic bombardment with lower yields, such as the corvettes attacking Sword Base and New Alexandria
you need to send in ground forces to minimize resistance from anti-air systems or enemy air craft, though, so just taking pot shots from the sky isnt enough
unkempt sigil
irl, the unsc wouldn't have existed because the united nations are all about peace and wouldn't make a military. also, united earth government isn't a good name if it's influence is on other planets too.
uncut onyx
Hello, everyone.
I have been introduced to Halo-verse a few days ago, and now I am reading the book.
So. I got a question that is stuck to my mind.
What kind of firepower would be required to deal with the Flood without useing a superweapon (or any other dex ex machina)?
stoic hamlet
Hello, everyone.
I have been introduced to Halo-verse a few days ago, and now I ...
Depends on the size of the infection.
If it’s small, incendiary weapons would be fine.
uncut onyx
If it’s small, incendiary weapons would be fine.
And if it is on scale of what Foreruners fought?
stoic hamlet
You’d need a super weapon, then.
strange pumice
You’d need a super weapon, then.
Nuke is enough?
uncut onyx
You’d need a super weapon, then.
Hm. And if you use someone like Zerg or Borg is fighting against them?
stoic hamlet
Nuke is enough?
Not for the scale of the Forerunner Flood War.
The Flood at that stage break causality.
uncut onyx
Nuke is enough?
Foreruners had to build Halo to do it. Nukes will not be enought.
Like. May be something like nova-bombs from Andromeda-verse would work, but you would have to deploy them en mass, wich, IMO, is as scary as Halo.
uncut onyx
You’d need a super weapon, then.
BTW. From what I understand Halo is one of the biggest Foreruner projects, correct?
strange pumice
BTW. From what I understand Halo is one of the biggest Foreruner projects, corre...
Yes
The Ark, Halo rings, all been created by Forerruners
uncut onyx
Yes
The Ark, Halo rings, all been created by Forerruners
Nah. I meant "it that THE biggest thing they have built?".
strange pumice
Nah. I meant "it that THE biggest thing they have built?".
The biggest was Greater Ark, but yes
dusk jetty
There are two halo arrays for the record, senescent and neoteric, the neoteric array are the ones we see in the games
The lesser Ark (or the one in halo 3) created the neoteric array, the greater Ark, (the image above me) created the larger, less lethal, senescent array
Neoteric array was designed with sterilization in mind, while senescent was designed as just a directional weapon
uncut onyx
The biggest was Greater Ark, but yes
Hm. They are something like 2.2 on Kardashev scale.
uncut onyx
Neoteric array was designed with sterilization in mind, while senescent was desi...
Than why have the resorted to Neothric array if they already had an array that could be used for the same purpuse, but mutch more precision?
dusk jetty
Than why have the resorted to Neothric array if they already had an array that c...
Because the flood had reached such a point where directional sterilization was no longer efficient, the flood controlled large swathes of the galaxy (known as the burn) and were pushing the forerunners further and further away
They had passed the tipping point for the flood, so to speak
uncut onyx
They had passed the tipping point for the flood, so to speak
Still wired. If they could make non-dicectional array, than why couldnt they unfocus directional one? Especialy considering that it is bigger.
Prob due to resons, but still. Wired.
dusk jetty
The majority of the senescent array was also destroyed at this point, the only reminding one, gyre 11, was missing
And gyre 11 was redesigned to installation 07, or zeta halo, aka the one in halo infinite
uncut onyx
Got it
dusk jetty
The story of the halo array is fascinating, I’d recommend The forerunner trilogy
uncut onyx
Now. Considering that you look like loremaster. Do you know any civilisation that could fight the Flood without killing everything in the galaxy? From other fandoms.
uncut onyx
The story of the halo array is fascinating, I’d recommend The forerunner trilogy
Oh... There is more than one. Noted.
dusk jetty
Now. Considering that you look like loremaster. Do you know any civilisation tha...
No. The flood, assuming you mean power scaling, is by and large the ultimate power. Not even the terminid swarm in 40k would overcome a prime infestation
The forerunners blur the line between divine and all powerful and even they were forced to their knees
In a literal and figurative sense, the flood is god
uncut onyx
No. The flood, assuming you mean power scaling, is by and large the ultimate pow...
Hm. I think that Borg, if given enought time, might come up with something. But, considering what you said, it doesnt look like they would have enought time.
terse lava
I mean if you are bringing in factions from other fandoms, there are some can handle a full might Flood infection. The Culture, alongside the Time Lords/Daleks come to mind.
dusk jetty
That’s true, factions that can manipulate time and physics could probably put up a fight
If not win
terse lava
The Culture lacks time travel manipulation, their ships are just stupid powerful, and nightmare fast
uncut onyx
That’s true, factions that can manipulate time and physics could probably put up...
Hm. Than Asguard might do it, if they use their time-bending tech.
terse lava
War in Heaven Necrons, alongside others from that era of time in Warhammer 40k, could perhaps hold their own as well
uncut onyx
Thought they are tacticly inflexable...
uncut onyx
War in Heaven Necrons, alongside others from that era of time in Warhammer 40k, ...
Not forever, I think.
dusk jetty
Hm. Than Asguard might do it, if they use their time-bending tech.
Marvel Asgard? I doubt it. Asgard is a real tangible place, which can be accessed through the bifrost amid others. That means it’s within reach of the flood
terse lava
Depends I'd say, we only know so much about what they were capable of
uncut onyx
I mean if you are bringing in factions from other fandoms, there are some can ha...
BTW, where The Culture come from? I know that Daleks are from Doctor Who, but The Culture...?
terse lava
Necrons had weapons then that were powerful enough to kill/shatter physical gods
A series of sci-fi books
dusk jetty
I would suggest the necrons perhaps being capable of fighting the flood for a prolonged time, but not as they are in their current 40k state
Too few
terse lava
Thus why I clarified War in Heaven, not enough awake in the modern setting
uncut onyx
Marvel Asgard? I doubt it. Asgard is a real tangible place, which can be accesse...
Na-na-nah! Stargate Asgard. Thouse gray guys had time manipulation tech (alongside with the Antients), and their ships are good.
If they abuse that to full extent, they might just make it.
dusk jetty
Na-na-nah! Stargate Asgard. Thouse gray guys had time manipulation tech (alongsi...
Ah, stargate. Not entirely familiar, but with time tech, yes it’s possible
terse lava
Don't think you'd want to include anything from Stargate. Those guys had a precursor race that had time travel, and still lost to clone space vampires
through sheer numbers
uncut onyx
Depends I'd say, we only know so much about what they were capable of
May be. But they degrade, from what I know.
terse lava
Eventually over millions of years sure
but again, the Flood's ability to really wage war is simply dependant on what technology they can really get access too
uncut onyx
Don't think you'd want to include anything from Stargate. Those guys had a precu...
I think that Antients just never used it. From what I know, Atlantis herself can use same systems as jumper, wich includes cronotech.
terse lava
If I recall, The Ancients did use time travel, but still goofed...somehow
but then again, Time Lords did a similar stunt, and also screwed up
modest marsh
its worth noting that halo has known, rigid metaphysical/cosmological rules that aren't compatible with other settings
terse lava
The Flood, even at their height, can onnly do so much, and some of that is purely thanks only to what the precursors had before. The war against the Forerunners only began going south when the Flood proved capable of activating Precursor tech.
uncut onyx
Marvel Asgard? I doubt it. Asgard is a real tangible place, which can be accesse...
BTW, starwars Empire might hold for some time before falling.
modest marsh
so for the purposes of discussing hypothetical crossovers, that has to be taken into account
true time travel is supposed to be impossible
if it was, then the flood would've won
terse lava
We havd like, what? A single example in Halo thanks to a Forerunner crystal
and that was a fluke
modest marsh
its also a closed loop
terse lava
yeah
uncut onyx
true time travel is supposed to be impossible
Even than you can slow the time.
dusk jetty
BTW, starwars Empire might hold for some time before falling.
Not really. Too interconnected, the flood would spread far too fast for any realistic measures to be effective
terse lava
The Forerunners have time manipulation, but not the kind you can just travel
modest marsh
Even than you can slow the time.
you can bend the rules of time in the setting, but not break it
terse lava
yeah
Can make slipspace bubbles/prisons to speed up/slow down time
and make, apparently, "Crystalized time prisons,"
dusk jetty
Even at the empires prime they have one singular Death Star, and a fleet of millions, the forerunners had that and more and fell too
uncut onyx
you can bend the rules of time in the setting, but not break it
Nah. There is no need. Just speed up time on shipyard planet and get a fleet is minutes, Flood time.
Than send fleet to other planets, deply time dilation devices, repeat. You get a fleet that will rival Flood in mear weaks.
I have no idea why the only one who ever did it in SG-verse were replicators. And why they did it only once.
uncut onyx
Not really. Too interconnected, the flood would spread far too fast for any real...
Logical.
terse lava
I mean, in regard to Stargate, the Ori could likely handle the parasite as well. They had no qualms of getting involved with mortal life
uncut onyx
I mean, in regard to Stargate, the Ori could likely handle the parasite as well....
Hm. Yea, thouse guys can do it, no queastions. But Acended are OP anyway. Like. They are literaly gods.
Same as Q.
terse lava
mhm, the Flood is powerful sure, but really depends on how far it is allowed to spread, and what it has. We see in Halo Wars that despite infecting the entire outer surface of a shield world, it never got anymore. Couldn't even develop a proper Gravemind in that time, only a mere Proto
uncut onyx
mhm, the Flood is powerful sure, but really depends on how far it is allowed to ...
Btw. Would nuklear bombardment be enought to deal with the Flood-infested planet? After all, nukes dont spread evenly. And you can survive underground.
terse lava
Depends, Despite one being shattered and the other's surface glassed, both Alpha and Delta Halo still maintain a flood presence
uncut onyx
mhm, the Flood is powerful sure, but really depends on how far it is allowed to ...
Btw. When will Flood become too mutch for Borg Collective to deal with?
terse lava
Nukes will of course wipe out a small infection though, but not a full planetary scale
For that you'd need to either destroy the planet, or glass the whole surface
uncut onyx
Nukes will of course wipe out a small infection though, but not a full planetary...
So you will need a halo.
terse lava
Yeah, pretty much
or a prototype halo
tiny little things that can wipe a single planet clean, as was the plot of the short story, Shadow of Intent
uncut onyx
tiny little things that can wipe a single planet clean, as was the plot of the s...
Indeed.
...
Hm.
...
Have you seen "Babylon 5" teleshow?
terse lava
Not really
uncut onyx
Not really
Got it. Than questions about Shadows and Vorlons are not usable.
uncut onyx
Not really
What about StarTrack? Voyager or The Next Generation.
terse lava
Wouldn't know, they have so much weird stuff, time travel, alternate universes, the Q, etc
uncut onyx
Wouldn't know, they have so much weird stuff, time travel, alternate universes, ...
Nah. I am interested in Borg and only Borg.
terse lava
that kinda stuff just comes down to a famous quote by Stan Lee, when asked who would win, Goku or Superman, "Whoever the author wants."
uncut onyx
that kinda stuff just comes down to a famous quote by Stan Lee, when asked who w...
Indeed.
Than. What about Mass Effect?
terse lava
They are screwed, even the Reapers have organic innards. Their only saving grace is the ability to shut down their version of FTL. And even then, we've seen the flood wait long periods of time adrift on vessels
uncut onyx
They are screwed, even the Reapers have organic innards. Their only saving grace...
Wait. Flood dont have FTL of their own?
terse lava
Like, native tech? No, they rely on the FTL of the host species. We see in the Forerunner trilogy of books however, that once they became powerful enough, they proved capable of using the same form of FTL that the Precursors once used before. Rather than pop out of a hole from slipspace, they would slowly materlize into reality, shedding off "multiversal residuce"
uncut onyx
Like, native tech? No, they rely on the FTL of the host species. We see in the F...
Huh. Than Reapers can just abuse mass relays, shooting KKVs at anything that looks even remotly like Flood.
Considering that overloaded mass relay can destroy a star system, it is safe to say that sustained bombardment will deal with any localised Flood infestation.
terse lava
The Forerunners did just that already during their war. As soon as a flood presence entered a star system, the local Forerunner battlegroups, if having the firepower to do it, would detonate the main star
Vessels infected by the flood would also in turn open slipspace portals to jump into stars, avoiding further spread
uncut onyx
Vessels infected by the flood would also in turn open slipspace portals to jump ...
Than how did Flood spread?
terse lava
The flood gained access to Precursor tech, activating it once they were powerful enough to do so. These proved immune to any form of damage, aside from a halo blast, and were capable of shutting down forerunner technology. Alongside the Logic Plague virus that was capable of infecting technology
uncut onyx
The flood gained access to Precursor tech, activating it once they were powerful...
So. No Precursor tech = No flood?
fading flume
mhm, the Flood is powerful sure, but really depends on how far it is allowed to ...
Very true. Scary to think during the height of the Flood’s power, a the greatest Gravemind body alone had dominion over 10,000 planets (iirc from the books). We’re only used to seeing them in centralized environments in the game like High Charity, but imagine if they were everywhere in their most advanced stage.
fading flume
So. No Precursor tech = No flood?
Precursor tech is just a means to an end for the flood once they peaked. Quite simply: the more Flood, the deadlier it will be as an entire species.
uncut onyx
Precursor tech is just a means to an end for the flood once they peaked. Quite s...
But without FTL there wont be mutch flood
fading flume
But without FTL there wont be mutch flood
Give it time
And there will be
They absorb any and everything iota of knowledge from their hosts, it’s just a matter of time before they absorb the necessary information
uncut onyx
Give it time
Exept any sane intelegence wont give it any.
fading flume
Exept any sane intelegence wont give it any.
They won’t really have a choice depending on the situation, and this is all hypothetical after all
uncut onyx
They won’t really have a choice depending on the situation, and this is all hypo...
Indeed.
So. Flood, in its high, can be dealt with only by Halos.
Do you know anything analagous from other -verses?
fading flume
Indeed.
So. Flood, in its high, can be dealt with only by Halos.
Do you know an...
Maybe 40k? But honestly not really. I’m just focusing on Halo and the Flood
uncut onyx
Maybe 40k? But honestly not really. I’m just focusing on Halo and the Flood
Well. In Halo-verse you cant do anything besides useing an array.
May be do Von-Naeman style star destroyers.
fading flume
Well. In Halo-verse you cant do anything besides useing an array.
Either that or you’d need a superior intelligence to infiltrate and take over the flood Hivemind (which is impossible unless you’re a precursor).
uncut onyx
Either that or you’d need a superior intelligence to infiltrate and take over th...
Hm. And if you create a distributed AI, that can replicate itself, arm it with best tech you have and give it best ships?
fading flume
Hm. And if you create a distributed AI, that can replicate itself, arm it with b...
Abaddon would realistically be the only AI capable of assaulting the Flood Hivemind, probably. Maybe Metarch AI’s from the Forerunners but I severely doubt it
uncut onyx
Hm. And if you create a distributed AI, that can replicate itself, arm it with b...
(As in replicatable tech and ships)
fading flume
(As in *replicatable* tech and ships)
Best tech and ships? Offensive Bias did a pretty good job with 1:1,000,000 odds against another AI of equal ability
But I still don’t think it be enough to take out the flood at the height of their power
uncut onyx
Best tech and ships? Offensive Bias did a pretty good job with 1:1,000,000 odds ...
Nah. I mean ships that can build and improve themselfs.
As in — technological analog to Flood, replicators.
fading flume
Nah. I mean *ships that can build and improve themselfs*.
So some sort of self-regeneration technology? Well, would Flood biomass be able to consume and assimilate into said ships?
uncut onyx
So some sort of self-regeneration technology? Well, would Flood biomass be able ...
Nah! I mean that ship A builds ship B and uploads coppy of A’s AI.
Than bouth B and A go and build more ships. Say C and D. Than A, B, C and D build E, F, G, H. Repeat ad infinitum
uncut onyx
Nah! I mean that ship A builds ship B and uploads coppy of A’s AI.
Than bouth B...
All of them are automated and self-destructable, ofcource.
fading flume
Nah! I mean that ship A builds ship B and uploads coppy of A’s AI.
Than bouth B...
So these ships are like rabbits and reproduce other ships at a rapid rate? If the technology is advanced enough not to immediately fall to the Flood, and if they just never stop, then they’d probably just outlast the Flood in all out war
Needs to be way more specific for an actual answer in my eyes thiugh
uncut onyx
So these ships are like rabbits and reproduce other ships at a rapid rate? If th...
Yes. But not just at rapid rate. At exponential rate. Because first generation (one ship) will build one ship. Second — two ships. Third — four ships. Forth — eight ships... Tenth generation will build 512 ships, f.e. And eleventh — 1024 ships. And so on.
uncut onyx
So these ships are like rabbits and reproduce other ships at a rapid rate? If th...
Well. Say, Forruner cruser with whatever they used for fabication and AI like Cortana.
fading flume
Then they’d keep multiplying until their were no space left to multiple, multiply some more, and then start crushing each other in an exponential rate and probably shatter reality like glass
Weird but interesting hypothetical
uncut onyx
Then they’d keep multiplying until their were no space left to multiple, multipl...
Matter for replication is limited to what they can mine.
But the idea is that shuch a shipforce can deal with Flood.
...
Well, exept if the AI goes rouge you create Flood 2.0.
fading flume
I see
vagrant ocean
Then they’d keep multiplying until their were no space left to multiple, multipl...
A large enough infestation can warp space-time, so I wouldn’t be shocked if they can branch into other universes.
fading flume
A large enough infestation can warp space-time, so I wouldn’t be shocked if they...
With neural physics they can, and I’m guessing that’s what the Precursor’s used to arrive in our galaxy, so I’m guessing if other universes do the can
vagrant ocean
Explains the presence of the Flood or analogues to them in other universes.
tough heron
Hi,
Do you guys know when they're going to talk about Edge of Dawn? I heard there will be a teaser for it at the community stage, but is it at Canon Fodder Live?
junior sphinx
So far i love what I'm seeing! My only complaint is that the Jackals are left handed shooters but you have them as being right handed. It is a core of their identity and uniqueness. This same mistake was made in Halo Infinite. Please correct this mistake
unique rune
They've been like this since Reach. I don't think it's a mistake at this point.
anyway I've never felt less excited about a Halo game so this is fun
stoic hamlet
~~anyway I've never felt less excited about a Halo game so this is fun~~
Most of the Halopedia discussion was a feeling of whelmed.
vagrant ocean
It looks nice.
empty bloom
So far i love what I'm seeing! My only complaint is that the Jackals are left ha...
Wat.
Jackals aren't a race of clones.
empty bloom
Most of the Halopedia discussion was a feeling of whelmed.
Yeah, I'm not surprised. There's nothing here that really seems special.
vagrant ocean
We still have a year until it actually drops.
unique rune
It's a remake of CE's campaign in UE
I don't think it'll do anything surprising or interesting
vagrant ocean
It looks nice, and it’ll introduce Halo to new people.
empty bloom
Half the reason for the dissappointment tbh.
vagrant ocean
Just be nice to the new people.
empty bloom
I'm going to bite my tongue on that, because I see a lot of people who aren't.
minor sky
I mean, everybody knew this was going to happen for like a year now
versed salmon
We don’t know yet how this will affect the current lore do we?
ionic tiger
I don’t see it having much of an impact.
empty bloom
Not unless they decide to do even MORE remakes.
coarse hamlet
We don’t know yet how this will affect the current lore do we?
2 options as i see it and neither is that impactful
- we'll get some edited lines "at lightspeed my maneuvering options were limited" for example. also whatever the 3 extra missions do
- they, 343/halo studios, inject a bunch of stuff from 4, 5, and 6 to try and tie the whole thing together
empty bloom
... Hmn. I guess it'd be nice if they explain how the Autumn was randomly on the ground in Reach.
Since the 3 levels are added, anyways.
coarse hamlet
free parking
versed salmon
Is it true the additional 3 levels will be prequels?
unique rune
I'm pretty sure that's what they said in the reveal
minor sky
They randomly guessed, and lucked into being right. That's life.
Ehhhh, "guess work" feels like a bit of an understatement.
minor sky
Is it true the additional 3 levels will be prequels?
I hope we get one playing as Thel
(We probably won't)
versed salmon
I think they’re related to sgt Johnson
high minnow
ok am i just dumb because i still dont understand why ackerson let reach fall
well actually let me rephrase that
why did he demand that the civillians be in the dark
modest marsh
ok am i just dumb because i still dont understand why ackerson let reach fall
You would be referring to the halo show in that context
high minnow
yeah
thorn spindle
The Thing
yea for sure. flood sux at being undercover though they have something to learn
modest marsh
It’s addressed within the show
high minnow
bruh i gotta rewatch that episode now
modest marsh
It essentially amounted to wanting to sacrifice reach for his plan to work
Broadly speaking, it’s clearly inspired by the convoluted background lore that was created to justify the disparity between the game and the original book
high minnow
lmao alr
twin parcel
Can I be space racist in this channel considering it's canon that sangheilis are called split lips
It's a part of the universe technically.
minor sky
Not if you're weird about it
minor sky
CTN 0453-0 is Joyeuse.
Very happy with this
minor sky
There was a moment where I was scared they were just going to call her Cortana
Stupid as that sounds
terse lava
I don't think it comes as a surprise to anyone on her name
unique rune
I would've been surprised if they'd just called her Cortana lol
versed salmon
no way they coudlve
empty bloom
Not if you're weird about it
Asking that in the first place is weird.
obsidian thistle
I would've been surprised if they'd just called her Cortana lol
Would have went against the themes and story of the game lol
Identity
mossy verge
so when the ancient humans were glassing planets because of the flood the forerunners thought they were being aggressive. How could they fumble so bad. like the humans were probably glassing their own planets as well. how could the forerunners mistaken this as war?
minor sky
Asking that in the first place is weird.
Yes, that's my point
strange pumice
so when the ancient humans were glassing planets because of the flood the foreru...
Because forerunners never heard about flood
Ancient humans was the first who have contacted with flood
They attacked forerunners planets, to get rid off infection, instead, forerunners attacked humanity
mossy verge
did humans not have to destroy their own planets when it got infected
How does forerunners not even know their own planets are infected
with tech that advanced
thorn spindle
i think the sense was that some forerunners did know, or at least knew there was probably reasoning behind it, but others wanted a war with humans
mossy verge
like they knew what the humans were doing but they still chose to use it as propaganada
like no way the forerunners didnt know
they definitely had trade among their own planets
something like covid shutdown but at a universal scale would have taken place
ionic tiger
Way I see it, humans were so thorough in their cleansing of the Flood they inadvertent wiped out their own evidence. When the Forerunners catch on, they only find charred worlds and assume this whole Flood business is a hoax.
Until it finds itself on their doorstep next.
mossy verge
sure but how does the humans discover the forerunners are infected before themselves lol
ionic tiger
I wouldn’t be shocked if the Flood took out planetary communications that cut off worlds from the rest of the Ecumene.
Or I can envision the idea that even if something did get out, few would understand what it really meant. WWZ had something like that with the start of its zombie plague, intercepted Chinese intelligence was being read by Israel but the idea of living dead seemed so unreasonable they assume it was code for something else.
And even if Forerunners went to investigate, they’d simply find a world destroyed by humans.
thorn spindle
thats true was new
mossy verge
I get it. its like if the US nuked China because the chinese got covid.
They know they have covid but they still see it as an act of war
they dont know that the space covid they got is literally the flood
so they think the us nuked them cause they are hawkish
sharp bough
What are people here’s view on the Halo lore? Do you like the 343 lore? Is there a specific place where you stopped caring about new lore? For me it was with Halo Reach retconning the original lore regarding Reach
obsidian thistle
I am a Halopedian. I enjoy all the lore. I love finding stuff to record on Halopedia!
vagrant ocean
Way I see it, humans were so thorough in their cleansing of the Flood they inadv...
This is why you record everything and share the intel.
minor sky
You know, I think the Mantle of Responciblity being such a key part of the Post-war/Reclaimer Saga narrative was actually a smart decision, at least with the added benifit of Epitaph's story
vagrant ocean
I wouldn’t be shocked if the Flood took out planetary communications that cut of...
WWZ mentioned, friend found.
vagrant ocean
What are people here’s view on the Halo lore? Do you like the 343 lore? Is there...
I like lore, and 343/HS have tried their best to make sense out of the bundle of twine that was Bungie’s lore.
minor sky
You know, I think the Mantle of Responciblity being such a key part of the Post-...
Having the Mantle be something to be shared and not hoarded makes perfect sense when applied to a story set after the Human-Covenant war when multiple factions are vying for power
Its a shame the Reclaimer Saga fell apart like it did
sharp bough
I like lore, and 343/HS have tried their best to make sense out of the bundle of...
I appreciate that 343 tried to bring some book lore in while Bungie hated the book lore and. really resented Microsoft bringing in scifi writers to try to expand the Halo universe in plausible ways. The entire Halo Reach game was basically a big F U to Eric Nylund and his Fall of Reach book by the Bungie guys before they left
vagrant ocean
I find Bungie’s Reach story to be more believable. The second most heavily defended planet in human space falling in a single day? Not likely.
minor sky
I don't think Reach was actively malicious toward Nyland's book
Bungie just didn't feel it nessicary to be tied down by somebody else's work
sharp bough
I find Bungie’s Reach story to be more believable. The second most heavily defen...
More believable? There wasn’t even a fleet in orbit over Reach in the games? Second most heavily defended planet my ass! They depicted it in the game more like some back water colony world than a major USNC military headquarters planet 🤦♂️
minor sky
I mean, not really?
A solid chunk of the missions have you fighting alongside the Army
Usually with tons of military hardware backing them up
sharp bough
A ship 200x bigger than every other ship in lore with invisibility appears over Reach… completely breaks universe cohesivness
vagrant ocean
More believable? There wasn’t even a fleet in orbit over Reach in the games? Sec...
Reach had one of the best orbital defense networks in human space, second only to the EODS. The Erőd-class ODP was crazy.
minor sky
Not to mention places like New Alexandrea don't really scream "Backwater" to me
sharp bough
Reach had one of the best orbital defense networks in human space, second only t...
In the books. Not in the game. We don’t even see a single MAC platform over Reach in the game
minor sky
Reach does a pretty solid job showing the military might of the UNSC imo
vagrant ocean
In the books. Not in the game. We don’t even see a single MAC platform over Reac...
Do you know how big space is?
sharp bough
Not to mention places like New Alexandrea don't really scream "Backwater" to me
I mean, I’m sure even planets with a few hundred thousand people will have a capital city
minor sky
Sure, but like, obviously not to that scale
sharp bough
Do you know how big space is?
Non-stealth Covenant Corvettes were just flying around Reach orbit basically unopposed
vagrant ocean
Non-stealth Covenant Corvettes were just flying around Reach orbit basically uno...
Again, do you know how big space is.
sharp bough
Sure, but like, obviously not to that scale
That’s the canon scale of a CSO super carrier based on what’s depicted in the Halo Reach game
sharp bough
Again, do you know how big space is.
And UNSC have the capacity to know when such ships are in planetary orbit. Don’t be stupid
minor sky
I'm sorry, I'm confused- are you talking about a ship or a city?
vagrant ocean
150 ships scattered through a massive solar system?
sharp bough
I'm sorry, I'm confused- are you talking about a ship or a city?
The CSO ship from the link I sent is absurdly massive compared to all other ships in-universe. I assumed that’s what your comment was about
sharp bough
Reach does a pretty solid job showing the military might of the UNSC imo
I disagree. We see like one or two Human frigates in orbit as the main defense for the second most defended human planet. That’s a complete joke
In the book you had one of the largest naval fleets ever assembled by Humanity to defend the planet.
152 human warships and 20 Super MAC platforms took part in the defense in the books. The game depicts 2 frigates and a space station
vagrant ocean
Ok, Halo CE didn’t show Alpha Base, yet those events still happened.
minor sky
Yeah, I'd imagine that has to do with the limitations of the hardware + pacing for a game
vagrant ocean
Exactly
vagrant ocean
Btw, it only took the Epsilon Eridani fleet 2 days to reach the planet. The UNSC forces that were on Reach at the time lasted nearly a month against the invasion, and I doubt any significant defense can be mounted after the Fleet of Particular Justice arrived.
Just noticed that a bunch of IIs we hadn’t heard from in a while were at Reach.
modest marsh
I appreciate that 343 tried to bring some book lore in while Bungie hated the bo...
I think it’s best not to characterize their relationship with the books in such absolutist terms because at the end of the day it was a studio comprised of hundreds of people with differing opinions over the span of a decade
Bungie clearly deferred to Nylund’s work in some respects, if nothing else because it was convenient to use something that already existed
modest marsh
Non-stealth Covenant Corvettes were just flying around Reach orbit basically uno...
Also tbc just because they were not cloaked in the visible spectrum doesn’t mean they lacked stealth capabilities
The ceudar-pattern corvettes explicitly have some form of stealth capability, it just amounts to sensor jamming/baffling rather than, say, invisibility
gentle shadow
I appreciate that 343 tried to bring some book lore in while Bungie hated the bo...
I've said this for years and I get looked and yelled at like I slapped someone's child
modest marsh
I've said this for years and I get looked and yelled at like I slapped someone's...
Maybe you should stop slapping children when you say this
gentle shadow
No
gentle shadow
Maybe you should stop slapping children when you say this
Yours are next
versed salmon
Is Halopedia currently the best site for halo lore/stuff?
stoic hamlet
Is Halopedia currently the best site for halo lore/stuff?
Yes.
vagrant ocean
Is Halopedia currently the best site for halo lore/stuff?
100%
drowsy mesa
Is Halopedia currently the best site for halo lore/stuff?
1000%
minor sky
Is Halopedia currently the best site for halo lore/stuff?
Unquestionably
versed salmon
bet
minor sky
I hope that Halo 7 is not too far behind. I'd hate to go almost a decade without a new sequel
I understand why they are doing this remake- it's allows for a space for them to build off of and get used to developing Halo in Unreal- but the reaction from certain fans does show that a lot of them are unhappy (then again, when are Halo fans ever happy)
terse lava
Only twice, the release of Halo 2, and later the release of halo 3
minor sky
Even Halo 2 had people complaining about how the Covenant spoke English and 3 had plenty of detractors in regards to it's sandbox and narrative
versed salmon
Even Halo 2 had people complaining about how the Covenant spoke English and 3 ha...
tbh I always understood it as they're speaking in their language (Covenant pidgin) but its in english for us plebs to understand
terse lava
@minor sky Quite true on both accounts
obsidian thistle
Is Halopedia currently the best site for halo lore/stuff?
The best thing also. You have an admin right here. Yes its true. Its me!
minor sky
Looking through the Wayback Machine, that website eventually became "Halo 3 Rocks!"
terse lava
the cycle always continues
frigid heart
www.halo2sucks.com.
DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES LOOK THAT WEBSITE UP
IM BEING 100% SERIOUS
vagrant ocean
DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES LOOK THAT WEBSITE UP
I mean, it’s been bought by a garbo advertising firm, but it existed.
It’s on the archive, https://web.archive.org/web/20041114181436/halo2sucks.com/
frigid heart
Ooooooohhhh I typed in the www not https and it brought me to a bad site
vagrant ocean
Halo fans have always been annoying and filled with negativity. It’s not new. But it has gotten much much worse.
uncut onyx
IM BEING 100% SERIOUS
If you don’t want people to look something up, then you shouldn’t create Streisand effect.
vagrant ocean
*then
fading flume
How did the Primordial interact with the Flood prior to it’s disintegration?
severe gorge
I’ve been reading Halo lore again and I must say, its so depressing. Like hearing about the details of the SPARTAN programs is just kinda sad and horrific
Like I understand humanity had to do something but Jesus
severe gorge
What was the point of ORION-I?
As in the first ORION project? The second was obviously because of the Insurrections, but what did they do the first for? Because they could?
To see if they could?
stoic hamlet
As in the first ORION project? The second was obviously because of the Insurrect...
To help humanity survive on hostile worlds.
severe gorge
To help humanity survive on hostile worlds.
Whole lotta good that did
modest marsh
To help humanity survive on hostile worlds.
Stated purpose anyways
severe gorge
Humanity is surviving in many worlds now.
I mean the original ORION subjects barely even made it to deployment at all much less in mass
modest marsh
I’m sure that was part of it but really to me that always came across as pretext to reintroduce controversial transhumanist protocols that were banned during the interplanetary wars
Analogous to world super powers benefiting from morally dubious scientific research from fallen tyrannical regimes
(I’m saying the Friedens were pulling a Jin-Roh)
frigid heart
It would be cool to see them experiment with flood supercells to create a “superior” human
Alien Romulus style
carmine sleet
I feel like we won't see that since ONI tried making the Flood into a bioweapon they could control on the Mona Lisa and it went horribly wrong
stoic hamlet
Notably, once they realized it went horribly wrong (and the main guy doing it went rogue) they shut it down.
severe gorge
It would be cool to see them experiment with flood supercells to create a “super...
I think the Flood would have to be convinced to help or they would just take over the host
stoic hamlet
The Mona Lisa isn’t ONI being stupid, it’s ONI being really smart with the tools and info they have available.
carmine sleet
Indeed
Like, they didn't quite know how bad the Flood is, even with the info they did have about the parasite recovered from the Battle for Alpha Halo
Had they known it would be as bad as it is, they'd likely have never bothered
modest marsh
It would be cool to see them experiment with flood supercells to create a “super...
I’d really like to stick to the core idea of humans trying to exploit fellow humans using scientific intervention for their own aims because I feel like this is something core to Halo’s inspiratory works
Alien, RoboCop, Ghost in the Shell, etc
In furtherance of this, using what little existing lore we have of the historical precedent that specifically made the Spartan program inherently illegal from all angles, I think you could construct some fun storytelling
Introducing the flood imo doesn’t really work here, because the flood itself is a force of nature with its own motives and goals
severe gorge
In furtherance of this, using what little existing lore we have of the historica...
The SPARTAN Programs were sadistic and I hate that they saved humanity
I want so badly to be able to say they were sadistic and didn’t serve any purpose but they unfortunately did
modest marsh
Humanity as a whole has never actually fought in an existential war so it’s difficult to imagine valid parallels to what we’ve faced in order to interrogate this fairly
One could easily make the argument that any number of more mundane war related innovations caused significantly more material harm than the Spartan program
How many deaths and overall misery can be attributed to the discovery of gunpowder alone?
And I mean, the Spartans themselves are clearly inspired by historical warrior cultures that were no less abusive and cruel for the sake of it
vagrant ocean
The SPARTAN Programs were sadistic and I hate that they saved humanity
Eh, depends on the program and the people involved. And I wouldn’t classify them as sadistic, as the purpose wasn’t to inflict pain on the subjects, but to find ways to improve them.
Halsey went out of her way to find a solution to the rejection rates when it came to Project ASTER, even so far as to delay the procedures as much as she could. This isn’t the behavior of a sadistic scientist, but of a person who wants to preserve as many lives as they can.
Is Halsey a hero? No. Is she a diabolical villain? Hell no. Halsey was following the evidence she had, and it showed that without something drastic happening, humanity would fall into a state of interstellar civil war, with nearly 40 billion lives at stake.
I would gladly sacrifice 0.0000001923075% of the population for the safety of the remainder.
crimson oak
I googled Earths capital in Halo and it told me “The choice of Sydney as the capital followed the "Emu War" to assert dominance over the Emus” for historical context. Is this true?
vagrant ocean
Not entirely. Sydney is, or was, the capital of the UEG. There was no Emu war that caused it to be that. Tho there was an emu war in the 20th century.
golden spear
Sydney always was a shocker
I was always expecting a city that, no disrespect to my Aussie friends, was more well geopolitically important like say Geneva or New York
stoic hamlet
Tbf, the US is dissolved in Halo, so New York makes sense to be out
Geneva would work, but it’s possible Sydney was chosen due to the dangers of the world at the time.
vagrant ocean
Should’ve been Cardiff.
golden spear
Tbf, the US is dissolved in Halo, so New York makes sense to be out
Geneva woul...
True, but New York is where the UN is based
stoic hamlet
It’s where it is now and in Halo’s present, but it might not have been at the time.
golden spear
Fair enough
Kind of funny though, how Chicago basically absorbed most of the Upper Midwest
vagrant ocean
I would love to know more about the Interplanetary and Rainforest Wars.
golden spear
I would love to know more about the Interplanetary and Rainforest Wars.
Agreed
vagrant ocean
I wouldn’t doubt if any of the Insurrectionist groups held Neo-Friedenist or Neo-Kolovic ideas.
Which would give reasoning into denying Rebels their independence.
orchid kettle
Innies have never really had fascist tendencies, and frequently accuse the UNSC of being fascist themselves
golden spear
And they had a point
golden spear
Thing is 343 never fleshed out that the tensions before the Covenant War never were resolved
orchid kettle
Characters developing communist ideals when capitalism runs so rampant in the setting that you have company towns on a planetary scale also isn't unreasonable, I wouldn't think
golden spear
Oh and I headcannoned a fascist human faction in Halo in the post Covenant War
Trauma can lead to a desire for revenge
orchid kettle
There is a difference
The difference imo would largely exist in how the government has shaped the civilian culture, and it's hard to really get a read on that
stoic hamlet
Mhm.
drifting sinew
What I still can't wrap my head around is that the insurrectionist still exist despite what all of humanity went through with the human covenant war. You would think you'd set aside your differences for the sake of survival
orchid kettle
There's like some weird inconsistency about how much the average person actually knew about the war
HtT season 1 and Uprising both have this idea of a covenant attack on Earth being impossible, with HtT having Ben claim that the aliens were really only a problem out in the boonies or something
in Cole Protocol, even Keyes wasn't aware of how bad things had gotten when he returns to active duty after years of being sidelined from an injury
vagrant ocean
Innies have never really had fascist tendencies, and frequently accuse the *UNSC...
The ones we know of. Rebel groups come in all shapes and sizes.
stoic hamlet
What I still can't wrap my head around is that the insurrectionist still exist d...
The insurrection is a broad term that defines multiple groups.
orchid kettle
I guess but in general there's a reluctance to actually define Innie politics
our heroes are rarely if ever opposed to the stated goals of the rebels
only the methods
vagrant ocean
I guess but in general there's a reluctance to actually define Innie politics
I hope we reach a place where they do.
orchid kettle
There's like one guy in Cole Protocol who thinks its silly that the innies of the rubble vote on everything
but thats about it
vagrant ocean
Cuz sure, they’re striving for independence, but what will they do after? What’s stopping planets from falling into civil war after infighting breaks out?
stoic hamlet
HtT season 1 and Uprising both have this idea of a covenant attack on Earth bein...
It feels like older lore where Staten and Nylund had the idea that actual fighting was super rare due to the distances traveled and communications being so poor, so I can see that working out.
It doesn’t work with modern lore though.
orchid kettle
Cuz sure, they’re striving for independence, but what will they do after? What’s...
In the original Fall of Reach, there's been infighting for hundreds of years
Later media changes this to basically one singular conflict that spans multiple worlds and revolves around this Watts fellow
but I think its clear in TFOR that Watts was just some guy
some guy who was already defeated before the Spartans were even chosen
Deja also brings up that what she fears about a civil war is the UNSC retaliation on a civilian population
vagrant ocean
Later media changes this to basically one singular conflict that spans multiple ...
Which I guess he could be the figurehead for the whole independence movement, but I doubt he’s leading a multi-planetary coalition of rebels.
vagrant ocean
Deja also brings up that what she fears about a civil war is the UNSC retaliatio...
Far Isle never happened.
orchid kettle
and urges Dr Halsey to finish her work with the Spartans, who at least will be more discerning than a nuclear bomb
modest marsh
The UNSC are authoritarian, not fascist.
There’s an important distinction to be made between having elements of fascism and being a true fascist institution, because obviously there are certain characteristics that the UEG as whole engage in that happen to align with fascist ideology, but then so does a lot of contemporary societies
stoic hamlet
Yeah.
vagrant ocean
There’s an important distinction to be made between having elements of fascism a...
It’s a sliding scale that ranges from George W. Bush to Hitler.
modest marsh
Treating the “innies” as dehumanized out group for example would align with fascist ideology, but it’s not exactly like we’re putting rebels into camps because of their skull shape
stoic hamlet
It’s something I always bring up, because just using fascist devalues the actual meaning of the term and turns it into a buzzword.
orchid kettle
tl;dr: the reason why we don't really focus too hard on Innie politics is because our heroes are ultimately UNSC aligned, and fleshing out the Innies would either make them too sympathetic, or 343/HS would have to make the case for why people being exploited by company towns are wrong for wanting human rights
vagrant ocean
Treating the “innies” as dehumanized out group for example would align with fasc...
It’d still be authoritarian because communists do the same thing.
modest marsh
What I still can't wrap my head around is that the insurrectionist still exist d...
You know how there’s people who doubt the moon landing happened today?
vagrant ocean
You know how there’s people who doubt the moon landing happened today?
Those people are genuine idiots.
modest marsh
The people who doubt the specifics of the covenant war as professed by the government are 1000x more valid and rational
For one, ONI is explicitly lying
vagrant ocean
The people who doubt the specifics of the covenant war as professed by the gover...
Doubt it until the refugees come pouring in
modest marsh
Yeah see that’s just a government conspiracy man
orchid kettle
There’s an important distinction to be made between having elements of fascism a...
I do think a lot of fascist undertones in the UNSC are partially a holdover from being "America in Space"
because we live in a world where most Americans don't question why we do stuff like make all the school children pledge undying loyalty to the state
Though I do think in TFOR, Nylund is being pretty purposefully in that scene with Halsey and Keyes, where Keyes doomposts about how society is on the verge of falling apart because of rebels and raiders
While Halsey tells him its always been on the verge for hundreds of years now
Which to me at least paints this picture of a UNSC that is never not cracking down on dissidents, that is never not painting its enemies as grave external threats that must be purged for the good of all
especially when combined with Deja's words about UNSC retaliation
I think it all kinda comes back to Mendez's "lives spent vs lives wasted" line
The UNSC spends lives like its nothing
drifting sinew
Yeah see that’s just a government conspiracy man
I still remember when I first got into halo lore. It's was so exciting to get the books day one of their release as well as the games. To play the game and read the lore it just made the experience more worth while for my childhood
orchid kettle
They never think its wasteful, no matter who they kill or how many they kill
Mendez will send multiple loyal ODSTs to their deaths to see how strong John is
Mendez will not mourn the death of an instructor
modest marsh
In fairness, I’m not sure he expected that they would’ve died
orchid kettle
nor will Halsey mourn the death of the man in the MJOLNIR prototype
modest marsh
HtT also did walk it back and specified only two of them suffered fatal injuries
orchid kettle
They're all currency to be spent like tax dollars
vagrant ocean
nor will Halsey mourn the death of the man in the MJOLNIR prototype
Ghost?
modest marsh
No
orchid kettle
No the guy who tested MJOLNIR and twisted himself into a pretzel to show that normies cant pilot the suit
modest marsh
nor will Halsey mourn the death of the man in the MJOLNIR prototype
I think she was more so annoyed than saddened by that but obviously she doesn’t want random marines dying because of someone else’s carelessness
vagrant ocean
He didn’t properly spec out his skill points.
modest marsh
That was a preventable death from her PoV
orchid kettle
I think she was more so *annoyed* than saddened by that but obviously she doesn’...
I honestly don't think Halsey is ever really shaken by anything that doesn't have to do with "her children"
Its heavily suggested that she gave John permission to kill those ODSTs during the Mark V training exercise
vagrant ocean
I still don’t see Halsey as much as a monster as most do. But then again using the data she had I found her decision to go through with the program to be quite utilitarian.
orchid kettle
and she certainly doesnt miss a beat when Mendez tells her an instructor was killed during sparring
she's just hyped that the kids are stronger than they expected
modest marsh
Its heavily suggested that she gave John permission to kill those ODSTs during t...
That’s true, but i think we’ve already discussed this point, which is that she thinks its reciprocal to what Ackerson plans to do and she’s right
Chief should’ve killed them with what he knew and what Halsey rationally expected
orchid kettle
Yeah but given the track record, I dont think Halsey would have said anything different if they were just normal Marines
I think a big part of TFOR is how Chief is really the only one with a vaguely 21st century moral compass
Halsey just has cracks when it comes to the children
but I don't really think it extends much further
orchid kettle
I think a big part of TFOR is how Chief is really the only one with a vaguely 21...
even if the extent is just like, "Hmm, I will feel sad for any people I kill, and strive not to do so when possible."
vagrant ocean
Halsey just has cracks when it comes to the children
Even the most “heartless” person can have a soft spot for children.
modest marsh
Maybe but I would think that most UNSC characters in general aren’t so flippant about fellow UNSC dying carelessly
vagrant ocean
Maybe but I would *think* that most UNSC characters in general aren’t so flippan...
Well, Halsey isn’t exactly UNSC.
modest marsh
I’m referring to characters including Mendez and Keyes
vagrant ocean
Ah.
orchid kettle
I think that's changed in current canon but I really do think back in TFOR, every adult human was supposed to have a very skewed sense of ethics
vagrant ocean
Which is hard to make sympathetic even in the face of extinction
orchid kettle
Keyes doesn't visibly care one bit about helping Halsey kidnap Chief and turn him into a supersoldier
modest marsh
Halsey is at the extreme end of Machiavellian consequentialism, where Mendez and Keyes are both a notch in the other direction but still on the same side of the issue
orchid kettle
if anything he's happy to see the guy without so much as a hint of guilt
vagrant ocean
Keyes doesn't visibly care one bit about helping Halsey kidnap Chief and turn hi...
Tbf, he was just a 20-something lieutenant who was doing what he was told, most young officers will do whatever it takes to prove themselves.
modest marsh
uhhhh
orchid kettle
I mean even when he meets Chief in 2552
modest marsh
Idk about that one
vagrant ocean
Halsey is at the extreme end of Machiavellian consequentialism, where Mendez and...
Eh, I see her as mostly a utilitarian.
orchid kettle
after a lifetime, bro still does not have a problem with the Spartan-II program
vagrant ocean
after a lifetime, bro still does not have a problem with the Spartan-II program
Well, they had results to support the action.
orchid kettle
Sure but Halsey feels bad even then
she does eventually go rogue in First Strike/GoO
modest marsh
Eh, I see her as mostly a utilitarian.
Consequentialism is a subset of utilitarianism
vagrant ocean
Consequentialism is a subset of utilitarianism
In my defense, I’m kinda stoned.
orchid kettle
even if the extent is just like, "Hmm, I will feel sad for any people I kill, an...
this is also kinda why I never understood Halo 4's "Chief is broken" angle, considering if anything, the whole world is broken and Chief was the only guy who was right
modest marsh
Ends justify the means philosophy
Halsey can rationalize any action taken to forward the needs of the state because she’s so extremely smart that she can do the calculus and override any emotional appeal
orchid kettle
this is also kinda why I never understood Halo 4's "Chief is broken" angle, cons...
which I guess you could argue would still lead to the average person seeing Chief's behavior as "incorrect", but the guy interrogating Halsey clearly doesn't think Chief is broken because he cares too much
modest marsh
And the needs of the state outweigh any other priority because she views it as the primary means of forwarding humanity’s interests as a whole
vagrant ocean
this is also kinda why I never understood Halo 4's "Chief is broken" angle, cons...
In an insane world the sane man is a lunatic.
orchid kettle
Halo 4 in general I think just has the issue of never defining what "humanity" is
vagrant ocean
Yeh,
orchid kettle
so it can't really argue for why Chief lacks it
vagrant ocean
Halsey can rationalize any action taken to forward the needs of the state becaus...
I mean, 75 kids in exchange for 39 BILLION people? I’d take that deal.
orchid kettle
because at least according to my definition, Chief feels pretty human when he worries over his dying friend and deludes himself into thinking there's a way she can be saved
modest marsh
I mean, 75 kids in exchange for 39 BILLION people? I’d take that deal.
Right, but that’s only if you believe that the preservation of the existing statehood is your best option to protect the majority of those people
vagrant ocean
because at least according to *my* definition, Chief feels pretty human when he ...
He blames himself sometimes for Sam.
orchid kettle
I mean, 75 kids in exchange for 39 BILLION people? I’d take that deal.
in TFOR, you don't really have this idea that all of humanity was somehow on the line
vagrant ocean
Right, but that’s only if you believe that the preservation of the existing stat...
Which given the data she had, would be reasonable to assume.
orchid kettle
Halsey wanted to put an end to conflict in general via the Spartans
Deja wants to avert mass civilian casualties via a heavy handed UNSC response with the Spartans
vagrant ocean
in TFOR, you don't really have this idea that all of humanity was somehow on the...
I’m talking outside of the strict context of the book.
orchid kettle
yeah
Im just saying, later media if anything tries to justify Halsey in a way that TFOR didn't
Halsey does ultimately go rogue after all in first strike
to me it doesnt make sense to try and strengthen her original position, the position she's fated to move away from
well, actually it does, when you figure that strengthening Halsey's initial position in turn serves to make the UNSC seem less like the bad guys
but it kinda undercuts her own character arc
the point is that she no longer believes in Mendez's "Lives spent vs lives wasted" line
and she tries to passes that onto Chief with that moral choice in First Strike, about how Chief shouldnt sacrifice Johnson just for a tiny chance to protect humanity against the Flood
she wants him to think of all lives lost as lives wasted
and you could argue this is why that Eridanus II section happens where Chief is helpless to save all these innocent people after he went and placed them in Covenant crosshairs
on some level its like a microcosm, or I guess, macrocosm(?) of the Johnson choice
and I think its reasonable to think that after all that, Chief no longer feels comfortable with the idea of sacrificing others for the sake of the "greater good"
and I think you're also supposed to draw a parallel between this and the Spartan-II program
odd bloom
Why do you think the UNSC didn't really use autonomous AI robots?
I mean, they were clearly very comfortable with ai as is, and they have mechs and stuff, i mean considering how so many of their heavy units are already destined to be slaughtered why not make it a robot
modest marsh
Depends on what you mean
A good chunk of their air fleet is made up of autonomous drones
Longswords can be remote piloted
The mantis can also be automated
odd bloom
Why not infantry robots or drone swarms or kamikaze / bomb dropper drones
considering the covenant are so insistent on getting close and down and dirty with it that puts them in great range to throw cheap drones at them
modest marsh
The latter exists
Seeker drones
They’re an armor ability in the game Spartan strike
vagrant ocean
Why not infantry robots or drone swarms or kamikaze / bomb dropper drones
Uses metal which is better used making armor and rifles for infantrymen.
odd bloom
that's the warhammer 40k approach tho lmao
they aren't afraid of ai
the robots Can be replacements for infantry
and they don't die either, even if ones head is blown off stuff a new one on!
even wiped out units surely have some spare parts to recycle
like i think an ai will fight way better than a human conscript emptying his bowels at the 600 pound shielded alien charging towards him
unique rune
smart AI are rare and expensive and better used elsewhere
dumb AI aren’t flexible enough to be effective in active warzones
modest marsh
like i think an ai will fight way better than a human conscript emptying his bow...
It’s not air tight, but the most obvious problem in regards to fighting the covenant and banished specifically is their ECM/EW capabilities far exceed the UNSC’s outside of very specific circumstances
Covenant can jam communications or inhibit the function of sophisticated electronics without much hassle
Their most popular weapons, the plasma pistol and plasma grenade, generate EMPs, which probably wouldn’t be good if used within the proximity of infantry-scale drones
odd bloom
ground robots with the heavier infantry weapons the UNSC has could probably get up to some very aimbotty shenanigans depending on how wacky they can build one
i dont see why the ai would flinch or hesitate like a scared person so stepping into a room and putting a round into each enemies head within a second and a half doesnt sound impossible
modest marsh
I mean sentry guns exist
odd bloom
yes but this one can walk
lol
and come after the enemy
or just put it on a drone
gun drones are cool
modest marsh
Okay yes but you’d need to justify why it’s ground based in the first place and not just a UAV
Specifically in the case of an AI-based solution, it would be wasteful if it isn’t protected by a sufficient amount of armor such that it’s unlikely to have its delicate software ruined by a stray plasma bolt’s ionizing radiation
empty bloom
like i think an ai will fight way better than a human conscript emptying his bow...
Conscript, sure.
Person who wants to be there, you'd have to kill me to keep a they/them off the line of humanity's best.
AIs can't fight as well as I can simply by virtue of spite, determination, and drive to protect my fellow comrades.
odd bloom
Specifically in the case of an AI-based solution, it would be wasteful if it isn...
humans take almost 20 years to make and millions of calories and life support and all that
a robot just needs the metal and rare earth metals and such
empty bloom
And all 20 of those years are spent being meat that gives a crap about the meat it works with.
Silicon can't replace calcium nerve.
You gotta go for metal, go for meat that wants to improve with metal.
The former's useless, the latter's better together.
odd bloom
but they only had a few spartans
they could def make thousands of bots in comparison
you dont have to deal with the tempermental fleshy thing
even if it isnt as intelligent on a grander strategic level
empty bloom
Oh, I'm way better than any wire-brained computer core.
unique rune
instead you get to deal with machines that are bad at on the fly decision making and are liable to break down for mysterious reasons at any given moment
and if we’re talking stuff like calories and life support
like
you do realize that a robot has to be powered
or else it’s just a worthless static pile of polymer and metal
empty bloom
Versus meat that'll scavenge and make work when none can be had.
Flesh'll fight til the spirit breaks, and usually past that.
Metal fights until metal breaks, and can't past that.
unique rune
then power supply becomes its own massive problem of either weighing it down with battery packs or spending tons of money and resources on something like a compact fusion reactor that could’ve, I dunno, been used to support human troops
coarse hamlet
Why do you think the UNSC didn't really use autonomous AI robots?
The main reason you're probably already somewhat aware of is out-of-universe and it's because the unsc military is heavily based on the us military of the 90s and the idea of a future soldier from that decade and our modern understanding of drones had not fully come to the forefront of peoples minds outside of terminator. A neat example that comes to mind is that the usaf used drones in 91 in air attacks but not as delivery systems for munitions or to crash into the enemy but as bait. sead aircraft armed with anti-radiation missiles would follow behind them and when the iraqi air defence switched on their radar to engage the drone bait they'd be picked off. back then that was a novel and clever tactic to most but today with 3 decades of hindsight everyone can see what that has evolved into.
empty bloom
The poor bloody infantry will never die.
You need meat to hold ground important to meat.
And all of the structure is made to support that meat.
odd bloom
And all of the structure is made to support that meat.
hey you wanna know one unbeatable advantage of the bots
if the halo rings go off the bots will still be kicking and doing what they were programmed to until they either run out of energy or a rogue ai jacks them
ONI in their basement experimenting with uploading halseys consiousness into an ai
so the universe will never escape her evil
lol
ooh have stations with robots set up to listen for the halo rings to go off with human embryos and DNA to have the robots clone new human babies and raise them to adulthood
empty bloom
ONI in their basement experimenting with uploading halseys consiousness into an ...
The hell did you think Cortana was? A fun experiment in misremembering Haegelian Dialectics again?
coarse hamlet
so the universe will never escape her evil
for oni she's only moderately evil. i think a lot of oni are jealous her schemes produced something of value
odd bloom
like the stuff from i am mother
empty bloom
for oni she's only moderately evil. i think a lot of oni are jealous her schemes...
I'd actually consider Halsey as bad, if not exemplary of the worst.
Black sites are worse than mass child kidnapping.
Totally.
odd bloom
i mean there are people right now walking around on our planet who make her look like a cuddly teddybear
empty bloom
After all, ONI is worse than Halsey, right? Child kidnapper extraordinaire?
odd bloom
i think a cartel makes oni look like saints of restraint and intelligent emotional connection in comparison
but thats a low bar
lol
then again the stuff they did to the insurrectionists ehh
UNSC does seem to have mostly very high control of their soldiers tho like it doesnt seem like they do the classic pillaging marauder type stuff at their worst at least
so the bad stuff they do is all intentional
why did they need to kidnap them again?
coarse hamlet
After all, ONI is worse than Halsey, right? Child kidnapper extraordinaire?
im a dirty centrist on this issue. half of oni do like actual naval intelligence stuff and are better than halsey, the other half are moustache twirling super villains who just dont have the budget yet
odd bloom
why not have them opted in?
im sure some would be volunteered
did you need to pre-select someone with good genes?
empty bloom
I'm not in the mood to hit the eugenicist freaks in the head with a wrench tonight.
I could if one presented itself, but I'd rather do it any other time, more permitting to my schedule.
odd bloom
im not sure why the kidnappies specifcally wind up being the strongest ones
it feels like if you knew what you were getting into and were treated better you'd probably turn out better esp with more advanced later generation stuff
empty bloom
That is literally why IVs are objectively the best gen.
minor sky
Ig thats the point, the UNSC was desparate for a way to stomp down on the Insurrectionists
Future problems be damned
wispy pewter
Kidnap kids for a super soldier program ✅
Just bomb the innies to smithereens ❌
orchid kettle
instead you get to deal with machines that are bad at on the fly decision making...
I think people underestimate how weirdly good humans are as "machines" themselves
We have a way to regulate our temperature that gives us insane endurance even compared to other animals
empty bloom
People fooled silicon into talking like a middle manager, and somehow that makes them think that middle managers are more competent than they really are.
orchid kettle
walking on two legs is deceptively complicated, which is apparently a big reason why big chunky exoskeletons have struggled
because the human body is already pretty darn good at walking and trying to make robot limbs that do it better is difficult
empty bloom
Humans being bipedal mammals did come at some pretty lengthy costs though, and our evolution lines led to some pretty bad adaptations as well.
empty bloom
It's why our babies take insanely long to develop and grow compared to other species, for example. Another is that our intestinal wall doesn't have the capability to heal 'properly' like it does for quadripedal mammals.
Specifically, the way the lining evolved basically only helps if you are quadripedal.
wispy pewter
moles exist
empty bloom
Humans are also self-repairing and self-replicating
The self-repairing is interesting because we do heal a lot faster than other mammals, but the tradeoff is that our healing method is actively detrimental long-term due to how relatively bad scar tissue is for function.
Like other animals scar too, humans just scar way more readily and extensively.
unborn patrol
I find it so interesting how sweating is such a rare adaptation
And honestly how lucky we are to have it. Probably was the only way we were gonna make it considering our ability to tire out a running pray instead of being able to catch em
Humans are fragile and slow
wispy pewter
99% of stats went to intelligence
vagrant ocean
We also spent a lot in dexterity.
vagrant ocean
https://www.halopedia.org/Far_Isle_rebellion
This never happened.
unborn patrol
We also spent a lot in dexterity.
We kind of traded it one place to another. Lost it in our feet, gained it in our hands
odd bloom
do you think explosive reactive armor would be able to deflect single plasma bolts? i mean if its just plasma its not gonna have any real physical strength on its own so an explosive shockwave could splash it away
modest marsh
It…depends
Plasma is regularly depicted as having a kinetic component
It “detonates” with force comparable to a 20mm grenade
Some of that can be attributed to gas expansion from the heat but it’s not really trying to be particularly realistic or consistent beyond conveying its violent effects
For example, when a civilian doctor looks at Chief’s injured leg, she specifically implies that a broken femur or worse would be expected from a plasma cannon strike:
“The ones that prevented your femur from breaking when you had that hole blown in your armor,” Somogy replied. “I’ve treated a lot of combat injuries since the Banished arrived, so I know what happens to a human body when it takes a bolt from a Banshee’s plasma cannon.”
thorn spindle
someone throw a plasma nade on my headache
vagrant ocean
someone throw a plasma nade on my headache
Nah
verbal hornet
Do you guys think the marines that were attached with Sangheili tried to get them to try nicotine like zyns?
modest marsh
Yeah probably
They also likely have their own recreational stimulants for that matter, we just haven’t heard of them
terse lava
Oddly I don't think we've ever seen them partake in that kind of activity
modest marsh
Truth did, back when he was called the Minister of Fortitude, in Contact Harvest
The Minister of Fortitude had smoked too much. He rarely partook in stimulants—the powerful hookah tobaccos favored by his senior staff.
It’s unclear if this is literally referring to the plant family found on Earth, since obviously at the time Staten intended the Forerunners to be from Earth
Or it could just be the alien approximation of Nicotiana
Similar to how Reavian “moa” are actually alien creatures that just have very similar traits to the earth species from New Zealand
stoic hamlet
also it’s likely just a familiar word meant to help the audience understand.
vagrant ocean
also it’s likely just a familiar word meant to help the audience understand.
Could be this and another case of convergent evolution
wispy pewter
do you think explosive reactive armor would be able to deflect single plasma bol...
ERA is meant to stop physical penetrators. I don’t think it will effective stop pure energy
fair hazel
I enjoyed the fifth canticle although volume was too loud for the music
terse lava
Was an enjoying read, yeah.
modest marsh
ERA is meant to stop physical penetrators. I don’t think it will effective stop ...
That’s false btw
ERA is most effective against antitank munitions like shaped charge rockets
The concussive blast prematurely detonates the oncoming explosive
Kinetic projectiles like an armor piercing sabot are simply moving too fast to be meaningfully impacted by ERA, if the ERA can even detonate in the required timeframe to affect it
In the case of plasma, which are effectively self propelled grenades or rockets that rupture on impact most of the time, an explosive going off right in front of it would likely cause it to dissipate before hitting the intended target
vagrant ocean
But then there’s the issue of having an explosive charge mounted to your chest.
modest marsh
But then there’s the issue of having an explosive charge mounted to your chest.
Not a big deal if you’re a Spartan
There’s also non explosive reactive armor, which the army troopers in Reach wear
Not as effective obviously because it requires a successful impact in the first place, but it could be the difference between having a scorched but working leg or no leg at all
raw monolith
Doesnt the "A" in Titanium-A stand for ablative? meaning it can take damage then simply shreds the damaged bit off, leading to a sort of sacrifical barrier protecting the hull of a spacecraft/spartan armour?
raw monolith
understood, thanks for the clarification
modest marsh
Broadly referred to as "Titanium-A," stacked nanotube-reinforced titanium and elastic polymer composites provide excellent protection against both hypervelocity impacts and directed energy weapons. Warships are fitted with thick plates, while civilian vessels have only what is needed to prevent superficial damage from micrometeorite impacts. More advanced armor plating, which was introduced late in the war, incorporates superconducting elements to lessen the effectiveness of Covenant plasma weapons.
From the encyclopedia
frigid heart
Most likely to show its A-Grade Titanium
modest marsh
The core premise of Ti-A is that it’s what’s needed for ship hulls to be able to survive hypervelocity impacts with various forms of space debris, which is a risk inherent to having ships capable of traveling at relativistic speeds between cosmic bodies even at sublight
wispy pewter
Kinetic projectiles like an armor piercing sabot are simply moving too fast to b...
I mean... Physical as in the shells are physical. But the Russians do have ERA that's meant to block sabot rounds
modest marsh
Has it ever worked
wispy pewter
or atleast deplete its penetration
wispy pewter
Has it ever worked
in War Thunder yes
modest marsh
Russians do a lot of things…
frigid heart
Lol I’ve seen tons of videos of captured t72s with their ERA holders filled with bricks
modest marsh
Admittedly that’s still better than nothing
Mostly relevant in lower yield payloads from a FPV drone, but the damage from that can stack up
wispy pewter
apparently their latest ones are supposed to block the latest nato rounds.
Not that it matters since its obvious dollar store drones can take them out
vagrant ocean
Titanium-Adamantium
vagrant ocean
apparently their latest ones are supposed to block the latest nato rounds.
Not t...
But can it defeat APFSDS-DU?
vagrant ocean
Still can’t beat a Javelin.
modest marsh
atleast thats what they say
Russia says a lot of things
vagrant ocean
atleast thats what they say
You can’t trust what Russia says about their equipment. They said the T-14 Armata is the biggest and baddest yet the bloody thing is nowhere to be seen.
wispy pewter
I guess you're right but it probably somewhat serve its function since so many people use them
empty bloom
A T-90 lost a fight to a friggin BRADLEY
To be fair to the T-90, and I hate to be fair to that lump of crap, it was mission-killed, not destroyed.
IIRC the bushmaster gunner knew where to shoot from playing War Thunder and basically just hammered the everliving hell out of the optics until the T-90 simply no longer had them.
vagrant ocean
IIRC the bushmaster gunner knew where to shoot from playing War Thunder and basi...
Yep, the Gamers have arrived.
And a mobility kill is still a kill.
vagrant ocean
I wonder if halo fans could blow up a tank
Im sure a crazy Ukrainian has tried to score a flying rocket kill. We have footage of them dropping cruise missiles with MANPADs.
wispy pewter
bet if a spartan runs and smashes into a tank it would work
modest marsh
I guess you're right but it probably somewhat serve its function since so many p...
Military innovation is as much political theater as it is a matter of solving actual strategic challenges relevant to the battlefield
Russia also claims they’ve been developing mechs for years
The US is guilty of this too for that matter, like the new M5 rifle being developed to counter body armor we have no reason to believe actually exists
raw monolith
we have the tech its just not that feesible compared to modern day tanks
cost is another factor
vagrant ocean
Russia also claims they’ve been developing mechs for years
They also claim to have a 5th gen fighter.
vagrant ocean
The US is guilty of this too for that matter, like the new M5 rifle being develo...
The XM7 won’t be adopted as standard issue, I see it being another attempt to replace the M4/M16 that gets relegated to DMR use or something.
Doesn’t even have a bayonet lug.
unique rune
imagine taking anything Russia says about its military tech at face value
wispy pewter
I think there is a reason they are building 130mm guns now
vagrant ocean
I think there is a reason they are building 130mm guns now
Armor is getting better, but I doubt Russia can field any advanced tank models anytime soon.
wispy pewter
I mean they are using T-90Ms currently. But as far as the Armata goes still doesn’t exist
The Scorpion in Halo seem to lack in any anti tank systems
stoic hamlet
That’s more a gameplay thing.
vagrant ocean
So far the only nations seeking to adopt a 130mm gun are Hungary, Italy, and Ukraine.
vagrant ocean
https://www.rt.com/news/436469-kalashnikov-army-2018-robot/
That “mech” looks like a vintage Lego set.
wispy pewter
Germany is not producing the new Panthers?
Scorpion only seen for like 2 seconds in the show. Very sad
vagrant ocean
Germany is not producing the new Panthers?
They’re producing it but it doesn’t look like they’re adopting it. They are making a KF51 turret that’ll fit Leopard 2s that can be up-gunned.
stoic hamlet
Unsurprisingly adopting new stuff isn’t actually that common, and most militaries would rather update what they have than replace it wholesale.
wispy pewter
Hmm. Might see end of year if the M1E3 Abrams will have it
vagrant ocean
Hmm. Might see end of year if the M1E3 Abrams will have it
Prolly not.
Seems that the E3 package is focused on munitions, rather than cannons
modest marsh
The Scorpion in Halo seem to lack in any anti tank systems
The configurations we see are intended to combat the covenant which have different priorities than contemporary MBT systems
At the very least I think we’re supposed assume it’s 90mm smoothbore cannon is at parity if not better than modern equivalent 105/120mm guns due to advances in propellants, materials, and so on
That being said, the Tarantula MLRS configuration seems like a good candidate for a dedicated anti-tank platform https://www.halopedia.org/M808B3_Tarantula
vagrant ocean
So the prequel missions take place before Reach, meaning we might be getting SILENT STORM and maybe some later stuff
stoic hamlet
So the prequel missions take place before Reach, meaning we might be getting SIL...
From the canon fodder live, it’s new stuff.
vagrant ocean
From the canon fodder live, it’s new stuff.
So prolly in the intervening years between the two conflicts.
stoic hamlet
Likely.
vagrant ocean
Sick.
carmine sleet
Hoping the 2540's
stoic hamlet
Same.
vagrant ocean
I’d say layte 2530s to early 2540s.
terse lava
Would be nice, we really dont have much direct viewing of the mid-point of the war
vagrant ocean
Which is when it got REAL
terse lava
Eh would say that was moreso the earlier years. By the mid-point, it fell into a repeat cycle
storm valley
Been looking for some good books involving Spartan IV's but I just don't know which one to pick, already done New Blood and Rubicon Protocol and loved those but, ain't too sure what to pick up for my next read.
empty bloom
I should really do more work on my Spartan IV fanfiction.
modest marsh
Been looking for some good books involving Spartan IV's but I just don't know wh...
Bad Blood is essentially a sequel to New Blood, and Hunters in the Dark and Outcasts are the other two that feature IVs as main protagonists
wispy pewter
Been looking for some good books involving Spartan IV's but I just don't know wh...
as Maggrubber said
Outcasts follows only one Spartan IV
orchid kettle
Bad Blood is essentially a sequel to New Blood, and Hunters in the Dark and Outc...
I'd argue the guy in Hunters isn't really a major character, not when compared to Luther Mann or Vale at least
orchid kettle
It's really weird how absent IVs are in the books when you think about it
I guess 343 figured they were supposed to be getting plenty of rep in Spartan Ops or the comics
but at some points in the franchise's history it can feel like they largely exist to explain multiplayer and not much else
wispy pewter
a lot of them died
300 went MIA after Infinity's loss, like 70 died in Laconia
then the Nysa colony was attacked
we need more SIII stories fr
orchid kettle
yeah but even before that, they didn't feature a ton in books
thorn osprey
Halopedia states that Victory of Samothrace had hundreds of Spartan-IVs onboard so there's still quite a few on just that one ship
orchid kettle
Yes but again, they're not main characters
unique rune
they’re not even characters
just a statistic
minor sky
Thorne's actor is busy with Star Trek stuff but, I'd like him back in a book or a comic
Him and I can't remember her name from Escalation had a nice dynamic
minor sky
Thanks for noticing the typo can't believe I made it twice
Yeah, and he plays the part well from what I've seen
(More of a Babylon 5/Stargate fan than a Trekkie. Still like the series ofc)
odd bloom
Doesnt the "A" in Titanium-A stand for ablative? meaning it can take damage then...
ablative armor would def be a great idea
and aerogel layers
hmm doesnt show but its a finger feeling through a layer of aerogel with a blowtorch on other side
depending on what you use you could come rather close to nullifying plasmas thermal effect
there are some very good insulators out there
- the fact that you could run active cooling liquid through channels in your armor plates to act like refridgerant with some sort of radiator on the back shrounded with fans blowing fresh air on the tubes in coils
hell i'd have a liquid nitrogen injection system to make it supercool the armor face right before impact to give it max thermal absorbtion
fading flume
twin parcel
Eh would say that was moreso the earlier years. By the mid-point, it fell into a...
Mid point of the war was just a repeat meat grinder, throw some guys at the covenant and hope to god they don't find earth as you try and survive long enough to evacuate in the middle of being glassed on some colony.
For the regular grunts I'd say the mid point of the war was probably one of the worst points due to the fact the UNSC basically could only stall the covenant.
Id imagine it was a bit like WW1, trenches and static warfare on the ground. All you could do as a regular grunt was to dig in and try to stop the advance as you Evac civilians and other non combatants.
modest marsh
hell i'd have a liquid nitrogen injection system to make it supercool the armor ...
Liquid nitrogen is about -200C, plasma reach temperatures exceeding 2000C by virtue of flash boiling steel and titanium alloys specifically formulated to be heat resistant
You’d have to make the armor so cold that it would be potentially inhibiting of the user’s movement and likely render the material extremely brittle in the process
As shown in halo wars, it’s possible to weaponize cryonics but I’m not sure it’s feasible to directly integrate the technology as a defensive protocol
Infinite did introduce three armor attachments that provide cooling functionality, but neither are meant for increased resilience against plasma
wispy pewter
I think energy shielding is by far the best anti plasma defence in the Halo universe
twin parcel
Riot Shields but with Energy Shield generators on them would be a REALLY good way to stop plasma weaponry
modest marsh
UTIL/COOLPACK - Countering Created knowledge of Mjolnir architecture requires out-of-the-box thinking for deception, such as adapting spacecraft cooling tech to mask a Spartan's heat signature
UTIL/COOLSHOT - To evade Created detection before assaults, UNSC technicians have developed a field-expedient method of using cryogenic liquids and superconductive heat piping to significantly reduce a Mjolnir suit's thermal signature for short periods.
UTIL/KHILPK Cooling Unit - Chiller and radiator that extends operational time in high-temperature environments.
twin parcel
Riot Shields but with Energy Shield generators on them would be a REALLY good wa...
It's also probably something a UNSC R&D person could make in a shed in a day provided they're given the energy shield schematics and coffee.
modest marsh
The best defense to avoid taking damage from plasma is not to get hit in the first place
twin parcel
Cover is always the best defense.
modest marsh
A Spartan’s maneuverability plays a significant factor as well, which is why a big heavy shield akin to what hunters carry may be suboptimal
twin parcel
For Spartans? Yes, for a regular marine it'd be pretty good.
modest marsh
I don’t think a marine would be strong enough to carry a shield capable of blunting the effects of plasma impacts
For the same reason modern militaries don’t really issue portable ballistic shields
twin parcel
We use ballistic shields currently. Riot and SWAT have them, in modern warfare it's a bit hard to use them because modern warfare is heavily based on mechanized infantry.
Getting into a Warthog or any other light tactical vehicle with a ballistic shield is extremely hard lol.
modest marsh
Riot and SWAT use them in contexts where they aren’t expecting to be fighting enemy forces that are appropriately equipped
twin parcel
Hell, I have trouble not banging the end of the 20" C7 barrel around in the tactical vehicles
modest marsh
Riot and SWAT use them in contexts where they aren’t expecting to be fighting en...
Most portable ballistic shields barely provide NIJ Level III+ protection, which is insufficient to sustain impacts from barrier penetrating ammo commonly issued with most intermediate caliber rifles and carbines
twin parcel
Fair point, I'd provide a counter argument by saying that the UNSC could make them out of Titanium A or something but they'd be too heavy to be usable by regular infantry.
modest marsh
There’s HW2 concept art of a Spartan carrying a big metal shield
twin parcel
Fair point, I'd provide a counter argument by saying that the UNSC could make th...
You've got me there. I'll shoulder the idea of ballistic shields with energy shield generators.
modest marsh
My issue is I’m having trouble imaging circumstances where this would actually be useful for their needs
twin parcel
My issue is I’m having trouble imaging circumstances where this would actually b...
Because it's cooool
modest marsh
I think it would be better addressed by issuing non-Spartans defensive equipment like bubble and drop shield
twin parcel
Would make regular UNSC soldiers a lot more effective.
modest marsh
That is to say, I think canonically you can imagine that UNSC infantry make sporadic use of exotic equipment like the drop wall, but hasn’t been standardized quite yet due to logistical constraints
twin parcel
Afaik Marines (based on their latest design in infinite) have the Titanium A armor plate but plasma weaponry would boil it easily in a few hits. I don't see how they can effectively take a hit and not get their blood boiled from the heat.
Maybe they have heat dispersive coatings or something, like modern day anti infrared coatings on issued cammies.
modest marsh
The materials of their armor is not specified, you might be thinking of the new ORCUS exoskeleton that ODSTs are being issued
twin parcel
But for heat dispersive.
modest marsh
That has been confirmed to be built with titanium
The helmet itself has probably always been titanium reinforced given its derivative of MJOLNIR technology
twin parcel
The materials of their armor is not specified, you might be thinking of the new ...
Halo Infinite specifically says for the MKV Chest UA ODST that it's made from Titanium A
The ODST battle plate is said to be made up of Titanium A in the description of it. Provided we take it at face value that it's a generic issue ODST battle plate.
modest marsh
Yeah that would track because ODST armor itself was derived from Mjolnir R&D
twin parcel
I may also be misrembering it though so if I'm wrong I'm blaming it on sleeping only three hours.
wispy pewter
what is the melting point of rock
modest marsh
(The meta reason for this is that an early rendition of Mark VI was reused as the basis of the ODST design in halo 2)
modest marsh
what is the melting point of rock
Depends on the rock
twin parcel
Yeah that would track because ODST armor itself was derived from Mjolnir R&D
I know the helmet is, it'd make sense for the rest of it to be based on Mjolnir too.
wispy pewter
Depends on the rock
The rock Johnson
modest marsh
Afaik Marines (based on their latest design in infinite) have the Titanium A arm...
Anyways yeah, someone wearing basic marine armor in Rubicon Protocol narrowly avoided injury from being shot in the chestplate, which indicates they’ve come pretty far in terms of maximizing the protection afforded to regular infantry:
From the left corridor, red plasma bolts streaked through the air, just missing the console. Shit. He saw it all clearly. The next round might hit the console. If they failed, then everything they’d done, everything they’d been through, would have been for nothing. Bender knelt, firing continuously down the corridor until a plasma round slammed into his chest plate and sent him tumbling back. The plasma ate through the plating as Bender frantically tried to pull his armor off before it went clear through to his skin.
twin parcel
Dunno if I'm right but I think I remember hearing somewhere ODST armor also has a very scaled down and less deadly version of Mjolnirs strength enhancement/exosuit abilities.
modest marsh
No
twin parcel
Could've just been somebody told me and they were wrong.
wispy pewter
Don’t we use like Tungsten for fusion reactors
modest marsh
We’ve known since Ghosts of Onyx that ODSTs have occasionally used exoskeletons, in that particular case SPI
It’s also been retconned that Hellbringers are exosuit-equipped ODSTs
twin parcel
I feel like SPI ODSTs should be something the UNSC invests in.
modest marsh
They probably do
orchid kettle
343 considered retroactively giving ODSTs exoskeletons, but it seems like they never did
modest marsh
ORCUS seems like a step towards that
orchid kettle
It’s also been retconned that Hellbringers are exosuit-equipped ODSTs
I figure with Hellbringers their exo's aren't that well suited to typical ODST activities
modest marsh
343 considered retroactively giving ODSTs exoskeletons, but it seems like they n...
They did in the sense that there’s a bunch of lore regarding non-MJOLNIR exoskeletons that previously didn’t exist
It’s just not standard
orchid kettle
Yeah but it was like specifically something to do with wanting to canonize ODST gameplay
modest marsh
lol
orchid kettle
even though an exoskeleton by itself wouldn't let you jump over a truck from a standstill without something extra
modest marsh
They’re just built that way
twin parcel
I love the idea of ODSTs just being regular spec ops dudes with a few futuristic upgrades who jump from orbit in metal coffins and the reason they can do all of these insane feats is because they're just simply built different and the ODST selection just makes them that way due to how harsh it is.
Literally just guys who willingly jump from orbit at the high cost of their life and do it with a smile on their face as they whoop and holler their way down to the planet.
modest marsh
I think it’s important to emphasize the fact that although Halo largely takes itself seriously, it’s nonetheless prone to pulp action tropes which tends to exaggerate or distance itself from reality in certain key ways
Human characters without any form of enhancement are regularly depicted performing feats of athleticism that cannot be explained realistically
orchid kettle
it also depends on the medium how seriously things are taken
twin parcel
Oh no, it's a futuristic game about defeating aliens in the 2500s! How dare it not be realistic!
orchid kettle
the Helljumper comic operates on looney toons logic sometimes
modest marsh
Yeah
twin parcel
Human characters without any form of enhancement are regularly depicted performi...
We also do this in real life, it's called adrenaline and it gives you the ability to do things otherwise incapable by human standards.
modest marsh
Sure but adrenaline won’t let you bend a quarter inch of steel
twin parcel
Believe me, adrenaline can make you do things that you never thought was possible. Have experienced it first hand when I saved a kid from a raging river with extreme currents after they fell in, I dove in and got them out. Would I have been able to do it without adrenaline? God no, I would've drowned.
modest marsh
Like, Dutch literally strangles an elite by garroting it with a random piece of metal
twin parcel
This is possible. The human body is capable of things that don't seem realistic until you're in combat.
modest marsh
Not without severely damaging itself
orchid kettle
Sure but adrenaline won’t let you bend a quarter inch of steel
getta load of this guy
can't even bend steel
twin parcel
Not without severely damaging itself
It's a game set in the 2500s, do you expect it to be as realistic as Arma?
modest marsh
Not without severely damaging itself
I’m saying there are intentional instances of defying realism without any real explanation and the setting isn’t exactly relevant to that
And yeah bending and meaningful amount of steel bare handed without tearing anything seems like something beyond explanation
It’s not even like the comic itself draws attention the fact that Dutch just did something that virtually no strongman twice his size can do because of adrenaline
orchid kettle
These days I think it wouldn't be impossible for the ODSTs to have employed a pair of those fancy millwood gloves from Rakshasa
twin parcel
Relevant? Dude, it's a literal game about space aliens crusading against humanity set in the far future. There is no basis in reality which can be used to make it "realistic" in our eyes because of the levels of technology the UNSC has compared to present day human society.
orchid kettle
at least in my mind, Rakshasa stuff is largely random junk the character has just found in the garbage can, and thus probably isn't spartan exclusive
modest marsh
Relevant? Dude, it's a literal game about space aliens crusading against humanit...
Yeah I know but it’s not like they’re giving steroids to everyone
Maybe they should be but they’re not
orchid kettle
you don't know what's in those stim packs
twin parcel
Lmao exactly.
modest marsh
modest marsh
Dude that’s just the cro magnon dna
Everyone knows that protohumans were just built like a rob liefield character
twin parcel
you don't know what's in those stim packs
I think I was once issued stay awake pills on a really long training op one time, they were straight up amphetamines because we were staying up over thirty hours in the training op and we couldn't sleep for more than five minutes without an artillery sim waking us up and OPFOR firing blanks from an LMG. Little did they know, I have ADHD and amphetamines just make me feel normal and sleepy.
hushed jetty
https://www.halopedia.org/images/5/59/HE_Midnight_Confrontation.png?e5c06
tbh, if he is actually that tall he could be yeah
his arms aren't actually that large
empty bloom
at least in my mind, Rakshasa stuff is largely random junk the character has jus...
What's funny is that the only reason I disagree is because I strongly believe the actual Rakshasa armor is just the techsuit you see at the ankles and feet of the armor, and some other odd patches.
So like, it's mostly just random crap the Spartan threw on to survive more, and maybe some external parts that are actually MJOLNIR, but it's literally just a ruggedized GEN2 techsuit with crap thrown on it.
Because one of the biggest advancements of GEN2 was fitting everything into the actual techsuit, it'd be silly if something that came out that was essentially a rugged ultralight MJOLNIR was factory-made to wear a onesie.
modest marsh
Well, critically, it can be taken off with a zipper which idt you can do that with the GEN2 tech suit
empty bloom
Well, critically, it can be taken off with a zipper which idt you can do that wi...
Which part?
Or, more specifically, when is that mentioned? Because there's zippers on the "Onesie" part but we don't see that for the actual undersuit.
modest marsh
The “muscle suit” portion that actually has all of the essential internals is very bulky
empty bloom
Right, but I'm asking about the zippers you mentioned.
