#lore-and-universe

1 messages · Page 104 of 1

wheat quarry
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I could see alpha 9 doing it, but they have plot armor.

orchid kettle
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I swear there's two specializations that both involve sticking close to a target for long periods of time, and the only difference is whether or not the Spartan kills the target at the end or just walks away with the intel

wheat quarry
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They are carried by their armor.

dusk jetty
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Well alpha 9 is augmented as of 2560

wheat quarry
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Micky, Dutch, Gretchen, Buck, and Trash

dusk jetty
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Just kind of begs the question if you really need Spartans for your hypothetical mission

wheat quarry
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I think Dare too? I just remember them getting married by Roland.

dusk jetty
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Would you deploy a SEAL or SAS team on an op that could easily be done by just a normal platoon or so

wheat quarry
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Well again in Ferret Triology Vega's Ferret team did that kind of stuff.

orchid kettle
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not anymore because Halo is now about the Spartan Experience

wheat quarry
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I hate Romeo with a passion.

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Bro should be murdered on the spot.

orchid kettle
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sometimes if the ODSTs have been good little boys the Spartans will let a few tag along

dusk jetty
wheat quarry
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Honestly my least favorite part about 343 era halo is how many spartans they have running around.

orchid kettle
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I still find it really funny how at the end of Empty Throne, the narrator assures us that the off-screen contribution of the ODSTs during the battle was totally a big deal

wheat quarry
orchid kettle
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but like, clearly not important enough to show or for the ODSTs to have names

wheat quarry
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Empty throne was wild for how they made the didact kinda a good guy.

dusk jetty
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And didact was always misguided

wheat quarry
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Then again that doesn't shock me, because 343 is running around out there in a soldier armor.

wheat quarry
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That is the point of the forrunners They are all stuborn.

wheat quarry
dusk jetty
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And he’s stubborn in epitath too

wheat quarry
dusk jetty
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He just accepts that he was wrong and corrupted

wheat quarry
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Wait @dusk jetty you know your lore. Would you agree Fred is the best spartan, then Jerome then Chief.

dusk jetty
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They work as a team

stoic hamlet
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Bungie just never acknowledged them.

wheat quarry
stoic hamlet
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If we really had to grade them, Jerome ranks really low.

dusk jetty
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Fred is competent and implied to be very humble, but he understands that it’s not important

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Same with chief

stoic hamlet
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No Spartan II or III really cares.

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John says it best:

“there’s a difference between being the best and the best known, all Spartans are equally capable.”

wheat quarry
wheat quarry
wheat quarry
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Then you have Ilsa Zane who is the actual Devil.

wheat quarry
stoic hamlet
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That gods/titans comparison isn’t really accurate either. It’s simply Buck’s thoughts but everything we know pretty heavily disputes it.

empty bloom
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Because she took off several inches of reinforced plate and piezoelectric material, not because she was physically smaller.

wheat quarry
empty bloom
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Well, it's wrong.

wheat quarry
wheat quarry
stoic hamlet
wheat quarry
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It's visually showed in Spartand Ops the size comparison of IV's

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Sara Palmer stands almost as tall as Lasky.

empty bloom
wheat quarry
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🙄

empty bloom
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Except she is literally, canonically taller, and it's obvious lmao

wheat quarry
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Not by much tho 😭

empty bloom
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She's 6'9"

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Lasky is 5'11"

wheat quarry
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She is 6'9

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Ayyy we wrote it at the same time 🤣

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Yeah but she is only a couple feet taller.

empty bloom
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That's... Still abnormally tall for a human?

wheat quarry
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Chief is 6'10 and considered small
Fred is 7'1

empty bloom
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Hell, at least one IV is actually closer to the higher end of the Spartan heights.

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Hoya, who stands at 7'1" out of armor.

wheat quarry
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True!

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God I miss fireteam Majestic.

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I'm just saying IV's are closer to humans than normal spartans.

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6'10 compared to 7'1 or how tall Big Rig is.

empty bloom
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They're... Literally the same height range, though.

wheat quarry
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Also I need more stuff with Big Rig and/or Jerome they are my favorite characters.

empty bloom
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Like, Locke and Chief out of armor aren't that far apart heightwise.

wheat quarry
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6'10 and 7'1 is a huge difference.

empty bloom
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Oh, wow, a whopping 4 inches.

wheat quarry
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Yeah which is alot...

frigid heart
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If we get the SAW back, should it be a commando reskin? We can’t get a 100% new weapon at this point, so it will have to be a reskin

empty bloom
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Locke is an inch shorter than Chief, who is 4 inches shorter than Hoya.

wheat quarry
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Again cheif is considered small, Fall of Reach states that he is small and scrappy.

empty bloom
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As a kid, yeah lmao

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But he's average height for a II

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Also, rereading the section where Kovan's armor is taken off at the end of Rubicon, it makes no mention of her height. Or size.

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She'd look 'smaller' but that's because she's down to the techsuit, with the plating removed.

wheat quarry
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Let met go to my book shelf.

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It's been a minute since I read it.

wheat quarry
empty bloom
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I mean, I'm literally reading Chapter 38 now.

wheat quarry
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Wait side note you think we will see her or Thomas in the next book.

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The one with chief and the medic.

empty bloom
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Also that person who got muted who said that other Spartans couldn't replicate Chief's bomb trick was funny.

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I think that'd actually be one of the single easiest things for any Spartan to replicate.

empty bloom
wheat quarry
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I was about to just go off.

wheat quarry
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I just really want to see Thomas.

empty bloom
wheat quarry
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I found fan art of him standing infront of the banished army with the shield and sword and it was 🔥

wheat quarry
empty bloom
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Uh, no, don't worry about it.

wheat quarry
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It was how he said it.

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Not the actual context.

empty bloom
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I see people doing that enough lmao

wheat quarry
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It makes me cringe.

empty bloom
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Halo fans and being cringe, name a more iconic duo

wheat quarry
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Kinda like when people knock on Sara Palmer...

wheat quarry
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Also hot take, I think Gamma Spartans are weird.

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I like them and all, but its just weird.

empty bloom
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@stoic hamlet Jump him, he's dissing your dudes

wheat quarry
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Wait Wait Wait!

empty bloom
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Nah I agree though, honestly. Gammas fit into a weird slot in Halo canon that feels hard to really qualify in a capacity that makes sense to me.

stoic hamlet
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The issue with the Gammas is no one wants to do anything with them.

empty bloom
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Well, none of the actual official Halo writers, at any rate.

wheat quarry
stoic hamlet
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No? There’s over 320.

empty bloom
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They're just doing nebulous things

wheat quarry
stoic hamlet
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Yes.

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I don’t know how many times I’ve had this convo, lol

wheat quarry
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I mean they are only brought up in the ferret books.

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The entire point of the second ferret book is pretending the gamma spartans all died, because they scare people.

stoic hamlet
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You’d think after almost 20 years people would know, but I guess that’s presumptive of me.

wheat quarry
empty bloom
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Somehow people forget about canon literally established in Fall of Reach.

stoic hamlet
wheat quarry
empty bloom
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Like the whole "Spartan IIs are explicitly stated as being incredibly unethical and a horrible choice" and "Mendez explicitly abused kids"

wheat quarry
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I could be wrong but I only remember it being a thing in the ferret books.

wheat quarry
empty bloom
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And "The UNSC was beating the brakes off of the Insurrection by the time the IIs were ready"

stoic hamlet
wheat quarry
stoic hamlet
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They’re mentioned just not elaborated on.

wheat quarry
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Ahhhhh

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I just find the concept kinda just meh. Especially in the ferret books, because each book something happens and the smoothers go away.

stoic hamlet
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Smoothers is a Gamma specific term, but they’re called an “anti-psychotic cocktail” in Ghosts of Onyx.

wheat quarry
stoic hamlet
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It’s like referring to alcohol as booze, or something.

wheat quarry
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I also just find it weird how many different batches of Spartan III there are.

wheat quarry
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I'll re read ghost, right now I'm finishing up the expanse books.

stoic hamlet
empty bloom
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I wonder if Whisper is used by unaugmented ONI troops as well as Spartans.

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Considering it's made for "ONI Pilots"

orchid kettle
supple jasper
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so spartan II are around 7ft in armor, spartan III are 6'9-6'11 in armor, and spartan IIII have around the same height as III? Maybe a bit smaller or bigger?

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also spartan kurt im pretty sure was 8'2 in the books but ill check halopedia

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he was 8'2 in SPI armor

wheat quarry
empty bloom
minor sky
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My current theory on The Endless is that they were the species positioned to take the Mantle after the Humans and Forerunners. Maybe there is some lore contridicting that, but thats what I got as I'm replying Infinite atm

wheat quarry
minor sky
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Only if Halo 7 decides to introduce another huge galaxy spanning threat

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Granted I have enough faith in them that they won't do another "The Next 72 Hours"

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Or just say "oh yeah, Halo 5's story ended while you were sleeping"

hardy swan
glossy sun
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Lol

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They still got Atriox

minor sky
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"Somehow The Prophet Of Truth has returned"

glossy sun
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Plus the Banished and Created threats

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Banished is still out here under other Warlords and stuff

wheat quarry
# wheat quarry There about to be a entire book breaking them down.

@sour raven I see the ❓
There is a book coming out where this Medic from Rubicon Protocol who freed the Harbinger is rescued by Master Chief and it is going to be the bridge between Halo Infinite and Halo 7. It's going to explain what She and her species are. It's also going to talk about the skimmers and what they in the ranks of the endless.

We also have Ilsa Zane who is basically the banished version of The Masterchief most likely heading towards Zeta halo.

They also confirmed Ancient humans are still alive.

wheat quarry
glossy sun
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Yep
So there's a lot
Plus Chief still has to secure Zeta Halo

wheat quarry
glossy sun
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Kinda sucks that I'll have to get a next gen Xbox for Halo 7 lol

minor sky
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I do really hope that the next book doesn't do the heavy lifting for the next game. I'd hate for it begin with us asking "who the hell are these people?" while events we probably should've gotten to play happen in a novel.

minor sky
wheat quarry
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Also Laskey and Blue team have been rummored for like 5 years to be trapped on the flood zone of Zeta halo so assume the flood.

wheat quarry
glossy sun
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You really think they'll release it on Xbox One?
Nah, it'll be on Series X/S

wheat quarry
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No it will be on the x/s like infinite.

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I upgraded when the S came out.

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Tho I still use my one alot because I got a S with no disk drive.

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Either way there alot of stuff Halo 7 can have.

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If it was up to me you play as Ilsa Zane and the Chief.

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Ilsa Zane mission you are leading the banished and the endless into the flood zone to recover and artifcat and capture blue team laskey and Locke.

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Chief Missions you are trying your best to beat her to the artifact and stop the endless from arriving.

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The last mission could be chief and Ilsa find out something having to do with the endless and then team up to fight atriox leading to a cliff hanger like halo 2

hardy swan
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I think the next baddies should be humanity

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Ancestors make a comeback

wheat quarry
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I mean we know they are still around.

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I just want them to finish this triology and not do what they did with the reclaimer triololgy

gusty star
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All the summary said was that they may discover some deeper secrets in the ring

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Which could include the Endless

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But we don’t know if it will and to what extent

wheat quarry
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It's going to include the medic from Rubicon protocol and what he knows.

gusty star
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It will connect the games sure, but I wouldn’t count on it explaining the Endless

wheat quarry
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I mean who knows honestly.

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I just want some fricking confermation on Locke, Blue Team and Laskey.

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The concept art of the Flood Zone and blue team was fire, and the Mega Leaks with Survivor Locke got me hyped, but we never saw any of it in the game.

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So I really just hope it touches on that stuff, even if that stuff isn't canon.

supple jasper
wheat quarry
supple jasper
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yeah and i talked about locke

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6'10

wheat quarry
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I don't care about her height, she is up there with Chief, Nobel 6, Jerome, and Fred on her Lethal Scale.

supple jasper
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on halopedia

wheat quarry
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Actually Nobel 6 really is not that good.

hardy swan
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I thought IVs were the tiny ones compared to the IIs and IIIs

wheat quarry
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Noble*

supple jasper
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hold up im playin infinate

wheat quarry
# supple jasper true

Like people crap on her for no reason, and I'm like she is the commander of every Spartan IV on infinity.

supple jasper
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infinite

hardy swan
wheat quarry
wheat quarry
empty bloom
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As a IV

supple jasper
empty bloom
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I mean, you didn't send evidence for your point.

unique rune
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just look on Halopedia! it cites pretty much everything!

supple jasper
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im curious

wheat quarry
supple jasper
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yes i did look up

wheat quarry
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It's in here.

supple jasper
minor sky
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I really don't want the flood back in any major capacity

empty bloom
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I assume by default IV heights are out of armor unless otherwise stated.

supple jasper
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ima be back

wheat quarry
unique rune
wheat quarry
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That stuff was so peak.

hardy swan
wheat quarry
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I love Palmer so you will never catch me slipping with slander when it comes to her.

empty bloom
wheat quarry
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I love her humor.

empty bloom
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I don't identify as a man or a woman. I identify as a post-human Covvy killing machine.

And a bird, and transfem, but also yeah.

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:3

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Anyways, I like that line.

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Ngl I do wish Agryna and Palmer interacted.

wheat quarry
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I really love that line.

wheat quarry
empty bloom
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🤨

wheat quarry
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Imagine being the Spartan Recruits and you just see Rosenda and June and a bunch of Elites coming to your aid.

minor sky
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I like Palmer but I'll admit she left a sour taste in my mouth during Spartan Ops

wheat quarry
wheat quarry
hardy swan
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ultra based John 117 walking trough the Spartan section with his infinity aura helmet

wheat quarry
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Counter that with Romeo getting almost killed.

supple jasper
wheat quarry
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Best part of the Halo franchise, would have been better if he died.

hardy swan
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Romeo haven't met his Juliet yet

minor sky
# wheat quarry HOW!?

Her dialogue/behavior towards the majority of the cast came off a lot less like sass or her being cheeky and more just being kind of demeaning

hardy swan
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no the admirals wife doesn't count

supple jasper
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(for trenchbird)

wheat quarry
versed salmon
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We still don’t know if Locke is alive or dead right. Or anyone else on the infinity side from the people form rubicon protocol

hardy swan
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Yup

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Locke was defeated by the Brute

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Him taking L after L

wheat quarry
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The figure never got released soooooooo.

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I assume Thomas is still alive, but I assume Nina died.

hardy swan
wheat quarry
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Alive* 🤣

marble lion
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It is presumed that Locke is still alive. But he might be hiding somewhere on Zeta Halo.

wheat quarry
hardy swan
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Chief should meet him in the book

wheat quarry
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I hope not

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I only want chief to meet Thomas

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If they put Ilsa in that book and kill her off in the book I will be livid.

hardy swan
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Thomas?

wheat quarry
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Thomas Horvath from Rubicon Protocol.

hardy swan
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Ohhhhhhh

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Because Lasky first name is Thomas too

wheat quarry
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Ohhh lol

minor sky
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Looking through some of the concept art, I do think the pitched Fall Of Reach movie adaptation had merit

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Heck, Spielburg seemed to like it enough to want to produce it. Much as I would have loved to live in a world where the Alex Garland script got developed into a film, I think TFOR could've worked well as a film.
The way the script's writer described it as being like Jaws where the Covenant are never quite shown until half way through the film, leading to more and more tension is a really cool approch

clever token
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Lore question, ladies and gents: if I were to make an OC who was a young Jiralhanae Warrior during the time of the Great Schism, would it be reasonable for them to be in their early-to-mid 40s by the time of Halo Infinite?

vagrant ocean
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Yes

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Entirely reasonable

clever token
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Aight, thx!

stoic hamlet
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Halo Infinite is only about 8 years after H2/3, for the record. @clever token

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Jiralhanae start their “careers” as young teenagers.

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Atriox was only 16 when the HCW started, but already engaged in combat operations.

frigid heart
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Why are the Zeta halo FOBs just the 1985 GI Joe mobile battle platform
Bases are supposed to have, like, walls and stuff

strange pumice
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I'm sure they have been built too fast, and opened surface means to deliver vehicles

unique rune
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probably gameplay reasons mostly

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an actual forward operating base would probably be like five times the size without actually having anything of substance to do

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unless you want to spend four hours doing simulated paperwork instead of running around shooting bad guys

minor sky
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Halo 7: Master Chief finally fills out those mission reports

obsidian thistle
minor sky
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Which one was that?

obsidian thistle
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Silent Storm

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He is specifically stated to be at the events in Halo: Retribution which came out prior to that

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So his omission is just weird

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(One of 2 things I "questioned" 343is choice on around that period of time)

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(The other was no Banished Jackals in Rise of Atriox which ended up badly unfortunately. No one was happy with how that turned out)

minor sky
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Weren't there no Banished Jackals in HW2?

glossy sun
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There was Jackals in Halo Wars 2

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Actually wait nvm there wasn't

obsidian thistle
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There wasnt

minor sky
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That always felt like a weird exclusion to me

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Having given this another listen I will admit that the script doesn't quite hold up to me as well as the first time, but I think it has enough good stuff to still work a starting point for an adaptation

gusty star
minor sky
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Exactly

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They are already raiders/mercenaries

supple jasper
wheat quarry
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Him and chief were the only Hyper Lethal until all spartans were designated that.

minor sky
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I personally like the idea that Noble Six was just as good as Chief, but he didn't have the Luck. Granted ig that applies to most Spartans

supple jasper
# wheat quarry I mean I read all the wiki's and everything about him.

the hyper-tethal thing is inacurate but he was one of the very few cat-II meaning he was very skilled i mean read this "Since his file was heavily redacted by the Office of Naval Intelligence, much of SPARTAN-B312's early life is unknown. The Spartan was originally a Beta Company candidate whose performance so impressed his superiors that B312 (along with a small number of their peers, designated "cat 2") was reassigned immediately after training before the inevitable bloodbath of Operation: TORPEDO. As one of the few remaining contemporary Spartan-IIIs, B312 was repurposed as a counter-terrorist operator, performing black operations. After several years of being fielded against Insurrectionists, B312 was transferred from his ONI handlers to Spartan NOBLE Team, where B312 took the deceased Thom-A293's place as "Noble Six". B312's transfer to NOBLE came immediately at the start of the Fall of Reach, placing the Spartan in a new territory of teamwork against the Covenant." And quote.

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"outshone their teammates well enough that these select few were handpicked by Lieutenant Commander Kurt Ambrose to be assigned to separate special force units outside the general population of Beta Company. Thus, these Spartans did not participate in Operation: TORPEDO, the suicide mission that resulted in the deaths of almost all of Beta Company. Because of the concealed nature of his survival, B312's existence became classified and the Spartan was deployed as a black operator and assassin under the Office of Naval Intelligence." And "Over the course of B312's career, the Spartan gained a reputation as an efficient lone-wolf assassin, having single-handedly broken terrorist organizations and made entire rebel groups disappear.[7] The Spartan was also a test pilot in a top-secret UNSC project, the Sabre Program, which resulted in the development of the FSS-1000 Sabre space fighter.[14] B312 used these skills to great effect in a counter-insurgency operation on Mamore on May 10, 2552, thus gaining the approval of Colonel Urban Holland and resulting in the Spartan's assignment to NOBLE Team.[15] Despite his hardened combat record,"

"B312's former superior allegedly used the Spartan as "his own private grim reaper"; because of this, he was reluctant to have B312 assigned to NOBLE Team." (all from halopedia btw)

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to say he isn't "as good" doesn't make sense to me. I havent read palmers file yet, but im about too.

hardy swan
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Great Wall of Text

supple jasper
minor sky
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I don't know if I prefer "No. Your victory is denied" or the final game's "And yet, you still fail" when the Didact fires the Composer

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44:39 if anyone wants to hear it

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The first one sounds a lot colder and brutal, while the one they went with feels a bit more mocking. Both are good though

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I really wish they kept Cortana's "I used to love watching you sleep. Waiting for you to wake up made me feel like anything could happen next" in her goodbye

hardy swan
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that sounds like what a girlfriend would say 💀

minor sky
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I understand why they cut it, but the last bit of that line really does sell the friendship the two of them had

minor sky
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For all I know they could've had the idea come up from stuff like this.
Actually it was one of the cut lines from The Didact during the final area of Shutdown where he makes reference to Cortana being a very advanced AI and her power being "misused"
Perhaps they were planning on the Didact being the one to bring Cortana back as a bad guy?

minor sky
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In my mind a lot of those lines could have been used as a way to get Chief to consider his place in the UNSC after Cortana's death. The whole idea with Halo 4/the reclaimer "trilogy" was getting Chief outside of his comfort zone and looking at the person under the helmet. A lot of Cortana's cut lines here is how she is actively questioning the UNSC while Chief is far more reluctant, really gets at the whole theme of "man or machine" the game was trying to sell

minor sky
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Its one of the reasons I find it kind of hard to rework Halo 5's story and have Chief's reasons for going rogue feel a lot more substancial or not be contrived

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Like in my mind it has to be a far more personal decision for him to make and not just out of the situation requiring it or making the UNSC wear dunce hats during the whole game

tired peak
glossy sun
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I wonder where the Spartan's train now that the Avery J Johnson Academy of Military Science is gone

unique rune
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lots of places

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AJJAMS was only one of several training Spartan training facilities

tight badge
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Did the UNSC find aliens before the covenant that werent plants animals or bacteria?

glossy sun
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We know this because the UNSC used First Contact protocols when they first met the Covenant

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They did see a lot of alien flora and fauna tho

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Like the Moa and Guta on Reach

minor sky
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Shame no other games did anything with wildlife like Reach did

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yes ik Infinite had all its stuff scrapped

glossy sun
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I mean Infinite has the little gopher like things and birds

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CE had engine constraints probably since it's an older game
2 had the Flood infested Ring
The parts we see of the Ark in 3 are desert
And in 4 the same thing

tight badge
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Funny question in a fight who wins

Game play Master Chief (Mjolmyr, No weapons)

Fully grown hippo

glossy sun
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Huh...

hardy swan
minor sky
glossy sun
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Ah okay

minor sky
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They decided that to make the ring feel more alien/have The Flood feel more shocking there shouldn't be any wildlife

minor sky
hardy swan
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“He’s out there,” they would say. “He’s fighting for us. One day, he’ll bring the fight back home, and this will all be over...”

damn. People look up to him fr

rugged creek
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So I want to get people’s thoughts on my interpretation of the Forerunner Trilogy as is pertains to the Precursors/Flood.

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In Primordium (I think), the Primordial’s big awful reveal to the Forerunners who captured it (which it later also shares with the Didact) - is that the Precursors and The Flood are one in the same, not two different species and/or an aberration as the Forerunners originally thought.

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That is to say, the Precursors - existing across deep time, following the ebbs and flows of the Universe, and having transcended their initial biological forms, adapting to whatever state of existence they may find themselves in over the eons - were not “corrupted” or “mutated” to become the Flood, but rather the Flood as we understand it is what the Precursors are. The Flood is the current and possibly final incarnation of the Precursors, not a separate entity from them.

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For example, the thing with their biological elements being reduced to that powder and degrading over the eons isn’t like - “a mistake” or “an accident” - the Primordial explicitly says that the Precursors were aware of this happening and “found it good,” i.e. the slow physical transformation into the disease/parasite we see in the Halo games and novels was the Precursors merely embracing a form suited to what they already were.

hardy swan
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The precursors, being hunted by the forerunners to extinction after finding out they weren't worthy of the Mantle, tried to preserve themselves by becoming dust, as a way to hibernate for millennia waiting for their ultimate return to destroy their aggressors. Overtime, the dust became corrupted. When the dust was found, it began to spread and finally became the Flood we recognize today.

rugged creek
# hardy swan The precursors, being hunted by the forerunners to extinction after finding out ...

I’m aware of that, but when the Primordial is explaining it, it frames this transformation or “corruption” as something that the Precursors were both aware of and accepted, as they’ve already taken many forms across the eons and The Flood is just another one - one which happily (for them) allowed them to wreak the revenge and suffering on living things that they already craved to get in the wake of the Foreunner rebellion

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The exact relevant quote regarding their physical form is:

"The Precursors lived in many shapes, flesh and spirit, primitive and advanced, spacefaring and locked to their worlds... Evolved over and over again, died away, were reborn, explored, and seeded many galaxies ..."

#

Then, later, the Primordial explains:

“Others became dust that could regenerate our past forms; time rendered this dust defective. It brought only disease and misery; but that was good, we saw the misery and found it good.

“We are the last of those who gave you breath and form, millions of years ago. We are the last of those your kind defied and ruthlessly destroyed. We are the last Precursors. And now we are legion."

"We are the Flood. There is no difference. Until all space and time are rolled up and life is crushed in the folds ... no end to war, grief, or pain. In a hundred and one thousand centuries ... unity again, and wisdom."

#

To me, all this information seems to lend itself to a reading in which the the Flood we see today are the Precursors, just as their other “many shapes” were. Not something different from them or like an evil messed up version of them - but simply their current and possibly final form, as the Primordial mentions the intent to do this until the heat death of the universe.

#

Like I’ve seen the lore construed by some Halo fans as “the Precursors were good and then they became corrupted and turned into the evil Flood” or raising the idea that the Xalanyn in Halo Infinite could be “uncorrupted Precursors,” but this is not the understanding I was left with after reading the Forerunner trilogy. To me, it reads like The Flood we see in the games are fundamentally the same being that the Precursors were/are, simply having undergone a physical metamorphosis into their current “shape” while lying dormant after the Forerunner uprising. The idea of an “uncorrupted” Precursor isn’t really possible, as the actual consciousness of the Precursors is what we know as The Gravemind, and it existed and hated life and free will before the powder became damaged. The powder degradation and the eventual rise of the parasite just gave it the means with which to enact said hatred.

thorn spindle
#

idk they are very different forms, Primordial v Gravemind

#

wonder why they chose a BUG form anyways

#

bug then like fungus

#

well i guess parasites are bugs too so they always were bugs

empty bloom
#

Parasites are not bugs.

#

Parasites are parasites regardless of form.

ripe condor
#

Agreed 👍🏻

thorn spindle
#

ok just the bug parasites are bug then

#

wonder if primordial would be offended by being called a bug

#

looks very buglike

#

went from bug creators form to bug parasite form

dusk jetty
#

Nitpick but Parasite is an ecological role, a tapeworm isn’t an arthropod, it’s a cestode, but cordiceps, which is a fungi, is also a parasite, like a tapeworm.

wheat quarry
#

Fred and Vega should kiss. That is all.

tight badge
#

Whats the strongest race in the covenant the average human could beat in a fight

minor sky
#

Average Human? Idk, maybe a Grunt?

orchid kettle
#

Grunts are pretty jacked, honestly

minor sky
#

Yeah. Prophets I feel wouldn't be too much of a problem

orchid kettle
#

I'd say the best you could hope for as like, a reasonably jacked Marine or whatever is a 1v1 with a Jackal

minor sky
#

Jackals would just bite your arm off

orchid kettle
#

I dunno, normal jackal heads never looked like they have that great of a bite force

#

Halo 4 ones, sure, they're basically dino men

tight badge
#

Jackals have hollow bones

#

A good punch would mess them up

minor sky
#

Ever since I saw those rabid Jackals in Halo 2 I've had the feeling that Jackals are all 🤏 this close to going crazy

orchid kettle
#

Johnson and his pal tussle with Jackals directly in CH, and they win. Of course now we know both of them were ORIONs

#

but at the very least in CH itself, Staten doesn't really draw any attention to Johnson being superhuman in any meaningful way. Like Chief punches a man, that man dies or is crippled for life. Johnson punches a normal man in a drunken rage, and that man just suffers a broken nose. W fairly normal result of getting punched square in the face by a jacked special forces Marine, you'd figure.

#

The encyclopedia too is kinda wishy washy on just how super they're even supposed to be, with mentions that the augs had some results, but not that much and that the operatives were otherwise indistinguishable from your average Marine without a thorough medical examination

minor sky
#

Elites, Brutes, and Hunters, the average guy might as well be a pool of blood and guts. The Yonhet might be just as strong as your average human, idk.

orchid kettle
#

The fact that the Yonhet were never even fielded as warriors kinda tells us that they're probably human-levels of strength at best if not worse

wheat quarry
#

You are all talking about the wrong things. Vega and Fred should have kissed, or dated.

empty bloom
#

A particularly beefy Dutch once snapped an elite's spine with his big, meaty thighs.

#

Somehow.

empty bloom
orchid kettle
#

A dying ODST hopped up on rumbledrugs slapped an Elite so hard it staggered to its knees

#

of course he breaks his hand doing so

minor sky
orchid kettle
#

I feel like how strong the Covenant races actually are kinda depends on who's the protagonist

#

If they're normal Marines/ODSTs, the humans usually can put up some fight, with extreme examples like Palmer bobbing and weaving a Brute Chieftain

#

but if they're like normal civilians then the Covenant are treated like horror movie monsters where fighting them isn't really something the protag considers their first option

#

Unsurprisingly, it basically comes down to what the author is trying to accomplish.

worn wolf
#

i appreciate all the fan lore but i wrote the book

minor sky
#

Thinking on Del Rio's role in Halo 4 some more has made me decide that for him to work they either needed to make him more of a political stooge from the get go, or have him be a bit more reasonable/understandable.

#

I am personally find the latter option the more appealing

worn wolf
#

did he not try and launch a political career after the events of halo 4 anyway

minor sky
#

He did

worn wolf
#

how did that go

minor sky
#

But I'm talking specifically about Halo 4 and it's story

#

Iirc he got the boot after being exposed for corruption

worn wolf
#

that he'd have been a more interesting character if he was more reasonable

#

oh what

#

i thought it was just he got widely rejected because he pulled rank on masterchif

minor sky
#

He got replaced by Lasky as captain and then became a senator

worn wolf
#

yes

#

but was the corruption as senator

minor sky
#

Yes

worn wolf
#

right

minor sky
#

Sorry should've replyed to your message when I first said that lol

worn wolf
#

i didnt know that i knew he launched a bid at politics and was unsuccesful

minor sky
#

I kind of wish Halo 5 had Locke interrogate Del Rio. Del Rio is playing up his righteousness as a Senator while also clearly being butthurt about what happened on Requiem

worn wolf
#

i was gonna say that - if he was sacked as captain of the infinity and also failed his politics bid it would've been interesting to see how he'd have used the created uprising or masterchief going awol as part of his campaign

#

didnt realise we couldnt swear here that seems a bit out of place for a halo discord but fair enough

minor sky
#

In-theory it could've been used to retroactively improve his characterization in Halo 4

tight badge
#

How xenophobic is the UNSC

#

Because for the last 30 years it’s bloody wars with aliens the covenant, flood, promethians, Didact, created and endless

thorn spindle
#

it's been a bit of a grinder indeed

hardy swan
ionic tiger
#

Sounds like a good way to torpedo whatever breathing room mankind has in a post-war galaxy.

empty bloom
empty bloom
#

Isn't that right, Savlar Chem Dog infantryman?

worn wolf
#

the covenant tried to wipe out humanity

#

the prometheans tried to use the composer to destroy earth under the didacts orders

empty bloom
#

Hey hey hey

What let humanity stand a chance at the end of the war at Earth

worn wolf
#

the elites

empty bloom
#

Man guess we should try picking a fight with them

#

Because, y'know, Xenophobia! Based Xenophobia!

worn wolf
#

eh its a fairly realistic outcome

#

a big number of elites still dont like humanity and fight the arbiters forces, and the unsc

empty bloom
#

What a depressingly dour outlook.

#

Not a very realistic one, but then, pessimism is at its best when it's pretending to be realistic.

worn wolf
#

the elites had a leadership role within the covenant and the covenant with ease killed like 2/3rds of all humanity

#

just because some of them are good isnt nessesarily going to change everyones minds about the elites, especially as they're all fighting each other now as well

empty bloom
#

Cool, sounds like a good idea to piss off what's left so they decide to reform an anti-human coalition that's actually competent and kill what's left of the idiots of humanity.

worn wolf
#

roughly half the elites are already doing that, while fighting each other

empty bloom
#

I mean, except that they aren't, and that's a statistic you are pulling from literally nowhere.

worn wolf
#

before the created arc since we dont know the state of their civil war atm but correct me if im wrong there

empty bloom
#

You're wrong foundationally.

worn wolf
#

i am pulling that number from nowhere

unique rune
#

even if that was the case
half of them trying to kill humanity is still better than all of them

empty bloom
#

Hell, Thel has a vested interest in coalition-building in humanity since his power base was literally invested in by a significant chunk of human governance, even with ONI being stupid (Though admittedly justifiably so in a high-risk high-reward way).

worn wolf
#

whether messing with the arbiters forces is a good idea or not isnt really going to shfit my mind on it being a more realistic outcome than "they all got along from here on out"

unique rune
#

that sure is a vast oversimplification of what's actually going on

hardy swan
worn wolf
#

as far as im aware the unsc and the arbiters forces are on good terms, but oni and kilo 5 are still trying to weaken the elites to prevent them from being able to overcome humanity

empty bloom
#

Good thing reality is not opinion-based in any way aside from someone making things worse because they feel their subjective opinions override objectivity.

empty bloom
empty bloom
hardy swan
#

And plus I’m talking about the civilian aspect. Because there are aliens living on earth for some reason

daring wadi
#

I haven’t read the books are they good?

worn wolf
#

most are good

unique rune
#

frankly if humanity was as big on the "wipe out all the bad guys" thing as Halo fans seem to claim there'd be a lot of things different about where we are in the 21st century

empty bloom
#

I've explained the reason why that makes sense ad nauseam, do I really need to do it again? Especially since I'm pretty sure you're one of the people I've explained it to.

worn wolf
#

i am not one of those people

#

today is my first time messaging in the lore chat

empty bloom
worn wolf
#

he might

thorn spindle
#

ye i feel Halo going in a more optimistic direction which is good

daring wadi
#

Anyone else think that what happened on reach kinda really sad

empty bloom
worn wolf
#

i think the covenant were jerks for glassing it

daring wadi
#

Right?

empty bloom
#

No.

#

Humanity deserved it, actually.

daring wadi
#

I can totally see that too tho

empty bloom
#

:3

hardy swan
#

Morbillions died. And what do they get? Nothing
Where is justice

empty bloom
#

I don't really care about Reach from a narrative perspective.

empty bloom
worn wolf
#

it insits apon itself

empty bloom
#

Revenge as violence is the refuge of the incompetent and weak. Prosperity is the best 'revenge'.

unique rune
#

I'm mostly just tired of Reach

we've been remembering it for 15 years
I'm done remembering Reach

worn wolf
#

but kilo 5, oni and the black ops boys werent messing with the arbiter for revenge

#

but to prevent his forces from garnering enough strength to challenge humanity in the near future

thorn spindle
#

i like Reach it was a big shock across humanity a good narrative for unity vs something

empty bloom
#

And media since.

worn wolf
#

explicitly doing it for revenge

empty bloom
#

Because factions and leadership can change their mind.

#

Like, that's a thing that happens.

hardy swan
#

Star Trek did show growing xenophobia after the Xindi blew up a big chunk of Florida

empty bloom
#

The trilogy literally deconstructs the consequences of Kilo 5's actions.

#

DS9 resentment between Bajorans and Cardassians is one of the single best representations of a crippled, subjugated power versus their former assailants, and frankly is a more potent representation.

Wounds heal with help, wounds heal with care. Mindless, savage brutality and revenge is not the answer and anyone sane knows it.

#

Humanity is not comprised primarily of people who operate as savage barbarians with a hammer and no lack of nails.

thorn spindle
#

i feel bad for wh40k humans theyre a lost cause

empty bloom
#

The most pointless, bloody regime imaginable, pointless brutality the norm. Any fan who claims the Imperium's deeds are necessary misses the most basic of notions about 40K's humanity-that none of it is necessary, all of it is because humanity is comprised of a bloated, fetid cesspit of an empire, more interested in petty wars and power than actual competence.

#

Humanity has more in common with Fantasy's Skaven than they do humanity itself.

worn wolf
#

have you considered that their armour just looks really cool

empty bloom
#

Despotic regimes rely on looking cool, so...

thorn spindle
#

sometimes i think what if the god emperor somehow revived, but even he was too into exterminating everything else. he would have to be a much better person for any hope

empty bloom
#

It's more or less believed he'd become the fifth major Chaos God at this point.

hardy swan
empty bloom
#

IIRC it was like, the Dark King or something-literally a god of uncaring, ceaseless order and xenophobia.

worn wolf
#

i agree penguin regardless if kilo 5 and oni's operations are dumb or not i felt it was a realistic outcome

hardy swan
#

If anything Humanity should ensure its own survival by being the strongest

empty bloom
#

Humanity first is Humanity Alone, in the grave.

thorn spindle
#

ye they have to form strong connections with other species build eachother up

worn wolf
#

may be upsetting to realise and you might want humanity to grow as a species after near extinction but the galaxy is still fairly dangerous. its not out of the question that peoples whose job is it to use legally dubious methods to protect it as a whole may do horrible legally dubious things to screw over an ally

hardy swan
#

This is why certain countries don’t want others to own nuclear weapons

thorn spindle
#

forerunners tried to do their own thing they rightly lost

hardy swan
worn wolf
#

thats a bold prediction right there

#

halo 7

empty bloom
worn wolf
#

people who dont want oni or the unsc to screw over its allys

#

allies*

#

and dont like that direction that the story took for a bit

empty bloom
#

Realistically, they would try. Realistically, they also failed accordingly, and caused more problems.

#

An increase of support for Jul's cause is a direct result of ONI's actions, meaning the events of Halo 4, 5, and Infinite are all due to ONI attempting to cripple an ally out of Xenophobia.

worn wolf
#

well thats unfortunate

#

in my book when im done writing it we'll get ONI leadership to take an 8 week course on alien cultural sensitivity training

hardy swan
#

They tried to poison their crops 💀

worn wolf
#

16 modules, 2 per week for a minimum of 2 hours per module

hardy swan
empty bloom
#

Sleeping people are easier to kill.

worn wolf
#

thats true ive killed so many people who were sleeping

empty bloom
worn wolf
#

all jokes aside though i do enjoy watching these lore discussions

hardy swan
#

I need my 8 hours

empty bloom
#

I mean, realistically, education is the best way to improve allyship regardless of circumstance or context.

#

That's not politics, that's just cold, hard facts.

worn wolf
#

education will help in the long term, but also in the long term they've just lost billions and hundreds of colonies

daring wadi
#

True

empty bloom
hardy swan
worn wolf
#

700 million people is still a shitton

empty bloom
#

People forget that the Imperium of Man in 40K actually did regularly allow Xenos to live, just usually as second class citizens.

thorn spindle
#

yea the general unsc knowledge should be how helpful elites were during the schism, nice unity story and hint of possible futures together. maybe the old heads of oni will fall away and be replaced with more optimism

empty bloom
hardy swan
#

Bu- but super Earth!

worn wolf
#

there was one of the radios you could find in the reach multiplayer maps projected they'd only get like 2% of the population of the planet. assuming that is accurate which is up to you as i dont think they'd give specific casualty numbers unless they have correct me im wrong. thats still hundreds of millions dead from just one planet

#

not counting the other planets in that system

empty bloom
#

Y'know it actually does like, genuinely, to a degree, annoy me when people unironically believe that factions like the UNSC should think more like the Imperium of Man.

hardy swan
#

Reach is humanity’s most populous world. I would have expected billions to have the Covies think it was humanity’s homeworld

hardy swan
empty bloom
#

Like, in the face of stories, in the face of the point of the Imperium's message, in the face of literal reality, you'd think that the conclusion of "Oh this thought process absolutely sucks" would be easier to grasp for most people.

worn wolf
#

the covenant holy city only had a population of a few tens of millions did it not?

#

gliche was an elite planet that had a population of a billion

empty bloom
#

I am easily infuriated by vapidity, so like, bruh, please, read theory and history

hardy swan
#

It’s surprising that not a single colony exceeded one billion in population

worn wolf
#

its entirely possible covenant worlds just have a lower population and as such they expected the same from encountering low pop human worlds

hardy swan
orchid kettle
#

Human population is very spotty throughout the series

#

in Fall of Reach for example, Harvest was said to have 3 million peeps

#

then in Contact Harvest that gets decimated to 300,000

#

and then in a way back up to 3 million when 343 re-released TFOR for the 2010 and 2011 editions?

hardy swan
#

Population of the entire human race can’t be more than 20 billion spread across the galaxy.

worn wolf
#

someone do correct this but i believe it was estimated at 39 billion before the war

orchid kettle
#

I think also the exact scale of the UEG was never really solidified

hardy swan
#

If not a single colony exceeded 1 billion then there must be hundreds of colonies like wth

worn wolf
#

although i cant actually recall where i read or heard this so it may just be someones head cannon

orchid kettle
#

again back in CH, you have this idea that Staten thought there'd only be 17 colonies

worn wolf
#

17 colony worlds?

orchid kettle
#

when now it feels like 343 is in favor of the old CE number of 800, if you include remote outposts and worlds the UEG "owns" even if they're not full colonies

hardy swan
orchid kettle
#

It also feels like 343 has been wanting to slow down on adding new colonies to the canon?

#

at the very least I remember seeing Boundary in Empty Throne and recalling that it was in the encyclopedia as well years before

#

and how everything seems to revolve around Venezia

worn wolf
#

one of the encyclopedias does explicitly mention there being 800 colonies

marble lion
#

There a likey more human colonies worlds, including ones that that Covenant have not discovered throughout the war.

worn wolf
#

and describes that as including planets, outposts etc

#

not 800 planets outright, but 800 settlements outright

#

ha he swear

#

get deleted noob

hardy swan
#

Damn I hate this server

#

As I was saying scaling in sci fi makes no sense like how a few million clones managed to police an entire galaxy of trillions

worn wolf
#

they're just well good

#

at policing

hardy swan
worn wolf
#

ive also poisoned the food supply and directed my fleet to destroy some of your ships

hardy swan
worn wolf
#

who won that fight

#

the brutes or the farmers (using mechs)

hardy swan
#

The brutes

#

It was brutal
🥁

worn wolf
#

tragic for farmers everywhere

hardy swan
#

"During the Battle of Boundary, while investigating human activity in a nearby barn, Banished War Chief Severan's forces were attacked by Cyclopses from the local militia, killing two Jiralhanae before the Cyclopses were taken down"

ah this

worn wolf
#

this is the new book is it not

hardy swan
#

yes

worn wolf
#

i forget what its called

hardy swan
#

Empty Throne

worn wolf
#

big up my man severan for succesfully defeating some humans using stolen weapons and farm equipment

minor sky
#

Empty Throne is basically the actual sequel to Halo 5 (its why I think it should be made into a game of some sort)

rugged creek
#

———————————————————————————
“Sickness, slavery, lingering death!” the Didact said. “We will analyze everything here, and we will learn. The Flood will be defeated.”

“Work, fight, live. All the sweeter. Mind after mind will shape and absorb. In the end, all will be quiet with wisdom.”

The Didact gave a small quiver, whether of rage or fear I could not tell.

“You told me you were the last Precursor.”

The Primordial rearranged its limbs with a leathery shuffle. Powder sifted from torso and legs.

“How can you be the last of anything?” the Didact asked. “I see now that you are nothing more than a mash-up of old victims infected by the Flood. A Gravemind. Were all the Precursors Graveminds?”

…

“How can you control any of this? You’re stuck here — the last of your kind!”

“The last of this kind.”

The head leaned forward, crimping the torso and front limbs until one leg actually separated and fell away, shooting out a cloud of fine dust. The Captive was decaying from within. What sort of cage was this? The misty blue light seemed to vibrate and a high, singing sound reverberated through the hemisphere, shaping razor-sharp nodes of dissonance.

But the Captive still managed to speak.

“We are the Flood. There is no difference. Until all space and time are rolled up and life is crushed in the folds . . . no end to war, grief, or pain. In a hundred and one thousand centuries . . . unity again, and wisdom. Until then — sweetness.”

———————————————————————————

rugged creek
#

Physically yes, the Primordial looked different from the Gravemind we see in the Halo Trilogy. But since all Graveminds connect to the Flood’s hive consciousness and think as one, gaining all the thoughts, memories, and knowledge the Flood has accumulated throughout the eons, it seems to me that any new GM constructed is basically just a new body inhabited by the same brain. That’s also why the Didact destroying the Primordial had zero impact on the Flood’s march across the galaxy, because by that point they’d already built like a million Graveminds on hundreds of worlds.

So given this, both the Primordial and the Delta Halo Gravemind would also be the same entity/conciousness, and they only look different because they’re made of the corpses of different species mashed together, presumably just determined by whatever local creatures were available to infect at the time they were created. “The Primordial” is the name used by the Forerunners to refer to the specific Gravemind they captured during the war, but it’s not “special” among GMs except for the fact that it’s very old and predates the Forerunner Flood War. Yes, it’s a Precursor, but, as it says verbatim in the novel, “there is no difference.”

The Flood are the Precursors. The Precursors “lived in many shapes, flesh and spirit… evolved over and over again, died away, were reborn, explored, and seeded many galaxies.” Imo that pretty clearly indicates that the Flood are not some aberration, but just one of these “many shapes -“if the “many shapes” thing itself is not a reference to the Precursors just being some version of the Flood we know this whole time. After all, the full quote:

"The Precursors lived in many shapes, flesh and spirit, primitive and advanced, spacefaring and locked to their worlds... Evolved over and over again, died away, were reborn, explored, and seeded many galaxies ..."

rugged creek
#

Could just as easily be describing the Flood as we already know it. Small, “primitive” outbreaks that never build a Gravemind and are basically just zombies locked to their own world - larger, “advanced” outbreaks that reach the Interstellar Stage and become spacefaring - evolving and dying off over and over again as some outbreaks are contained and destroyed only for another to happen elsewhere in the galaxy - there’s no reason why the Precursors couldn’t have already been some version of the Flood before the whole powder thing happened

#

After all, the Primordial just says the dust becoming “defective” made it being “disease and misery,” not that it fundamentally changed the precursors into a completely different thing than they were before. When the Primordial says there is no difference between the Flood and Precursors, it could very well mean that literally. The Forerunner’s genocide of them and the corruption of the dust may have simply changed them from benign to malignant.

glossy sun
#

The Covenant/Banished really don't have an equivalent of the Warthog huh?

hot field
#

The Spectre from Halo 2

glossy sun
#

Oh true
Okay because I was trying to make a Halo story but just didn't want Ghosts and Wraiths lol
Wanted a mix of different vehicles

hot field
#

There are so many to choose from
You've got Spectres, Locusts, Vampires, Choppers, and a bunch from the books

orchid kettle
#

The Banished were going to have something called a war-skiff (likely not its actual in-game name, just the name that the aliens called it) which was effectively the new Prowler

#

it still exists somewhat as wreckage in a couple of places in the campaign, and is mentioned in Rubicon Protocol

rugged creek
glossy sun
rugged creek
#

Ngl the Didact is kind of the definition of a hater

#

He was praying on humanity’s downfall harder than the Prophet of Truth

rugged creek
#

Probably spiky

glossy sun
#

Lmao
Yea
Red and up armored

#

The Banished really love slapping extra armor plates on stuff

rugged creek
glossy sun
#

Lmao

rugged creek
#

They tried to punch out the Banished Wraith

glossy sun
#

Yea
There's like one datapad mentioned the helljumpers and that's it

rugged creek
orchid kettle
#

The Pelican is likely only showing the IFF tags within range of the scanners, as it only picks up something like 1100 of them

#

but we've been told that the Infinity had over 7000 people, and then you had a bunch of frigate crews that would have been at the battle as well

stoic hamlet
#

Also there were other UNSC forces on the ring even before the battle, confirmed in Rubicon Protocol to still have been active even as late as January 2560.

stiff plinth
#

Spirit drop ships are stronger than the halo 2 scarab armor trust

glossy sun
#

Lmao

wheat quarry
#

Everyone talking about the battle's and who is better : (

#

This is a book series lets talk about the relationships 👏

frigid heart
high elbow
obsidian thistle
#

My favourite ship... hmmm

#

Thats a hard question

#

The Anlace is quite cool

frigid heart
spark pivot
wheat quarry
frigid heart
#

It’s like 90/10 action and relationships

wheat quarry
#

But some of the relationships are amazing.

#

The gamma’s and Vega. Halsey and the Spartans in the old books.

#

Kinda Vega and Fred, but it didn’t go anywhere

#

Like I really think it’s an untapped market in the halo universe.

#

Like it shows the human side of Spartans and these harden soldier.

minor sky
glass pine
#

Aside from the one cutscene, do battle rifles not actually appear to pick up in ODST?

#

I could've sworn there are

#

And a random thing, do any characters, from books or recordings, acknowledge the assault rifle and it's 62 capacity mags?

#

surely one single marine must've thought the amount of ammo was strange but convenient

spiral compass
#

Halo 4 campaign is beautiful.

obsidian thistle
obsidian thistle
#

Plenty reference books mention it.

torpid quail
spiral compass
#

Why did Jet packs disappear from Halo 4 to Halo 5? Also if Infinite takes place immediately after Halo 5 (atleast the starting campaign cutscene) where did all the weapon & vehicles variants go? Along with the thrusters abilities?

hardy swan
#

gone, forgotten, turned to dust

obsidian thistle
carmine sleet
unique rune
#

I never thought a fandom could struggle so much with the concept of object permanence as much as the Halo fandom does

carmine sleet
#

I've seen it happen in the Pokémon community a few times...

vagrant ocean
stoic hamlet
carmine sleet
#

Bond in an Aston Martin?! How ridiculous a notion!! We all know his car is a Lotus! /j

hardy swan
#

Halo 5 and Infinite spartans use different gen armor they probably took off the boosters for some reason

empty bloom
vagrant ocean
#

Ok

#

This might be due to some influence from my friend MJ, but I just now noticed that Halo 4 was released 5 years after Halo 3 but ALSO takes place 5 years after.

modest marsh
# spiral compass Why did Jet packs disappear from Halo 4 to Halo 5? Also if Infinite takes place ...

So to be clear, jetpacks were originally intended to first make an appearance in the original game during its early development, which some multiplayer maps like Boarding Action were specifically designed around. Extended media has had at least occasionally included the use of EVA thruster packs since the original novel, but didn’t make an actual game appearance till Reach where the jetpack was made a form of mobility assist for both ODSTs and Spartans. Since then, it’s been made retroactively the case that various iterations of MJOLNIR have both used integrated and external thruster modules, for both stylistic and gameplay purposes.

#

Halo 4 was pretty obviously meant to have integrated thrusters as a standard feature but this was abandoned in favor of the armor abilities system derived from Reach

#

As far as lore justification, we aren’t given official in universe justification as to why thrusters aren’t consistently used, but the most obvious reason that is shown in both the original novel as well as later stories is that they are easily damaged and prone to malfunction compared to a suit that doesn’t have one

#

James-005 was famously launched into orbit when his thruster pack was damaged by needler fire, and Buck’s integrated thrusters were similarly rendered nonfunctional by scattershot fire in the novel Bad Blood

#

In terms of maximizing protection and resilience, not having thruster ports on the exterior of the armor is somewhat of a given, because those are not only places that inherently have less armor, but may also cause critical malfunctions when damaged given how much thrust they’re able to produce

spiral compass
modest marsh
#

Under the hood it’s very similar to reach

#

But in any case, even from official stuff they put out, you can tell they were already headed in the direction of retroactively making thrusters a standard feature before walking it back

#

The first teaser trailer for Halo 4 has Chief flying around in zero g with thrusters, the opening cinematic shows all the Spartans using thrusters, the end cutscene for Shutdown shows Chief using thrusters

#

In the level itself he has a jetpack as a starting armor ability but this isn’t represented visually outside of gameplay

#

In the novel Thursday War, there’s an oblique reference to a “propulsion system” that Naomi uses in her GEN1 Mark VII, and that book came out a month before halo 4 so I think that’s more than a coincidence

#

I’d argue something similar to be the case with Halo Infinite, where they probably weren’t sure how to handle thrusters until late in development so in Memory Agent they imply Chief still has integrated thrusters in his GEN3 Mark VI armor despite it not being visually represented and in game he uses an external thruster pack instead

#

I double checked, apparently Horvath is also stated to have a nondescript “propulsion system” in Rubicon Protocol but was rendered nonfunctional early in the battle

spiral compass
#

I feel like they are rushed even though it takes like 5 years for a new halo game

modest marsh
#

Halo infinite feels rushed because they only spent the last few years of development on a coherent, downsized version of what they spent most of their time on

#

This is also pretty telegraphed by the extended media before and around its launch, but it seems like they originally planned for tactical stealth mechanics to play a bigger role in a similar vein as Ghost Recon

#

Like every book and comic released before or alongside Infinite made reference to active camo (or in Shadows of Reach, “passive camo”)

spiral compass
#

You can definitely tell some elements are missing

modest marsh
#

It definitely feels jarring that they made camo an inherent perk for thrusters

spiral compass
spiral compass
modest marsh
#

Lore wise it seems Mark VII has camo as a standardized feature but you simply can’t use it whenever you want for gameplay purposes

spiral compass
#

And it always throws me off the repulsor is not in the campaign

spiral compass
spiral compass
modest marsh
#

Well Halo Infinite is the only game that has useable Mark VII armor

#

(Aside from the keystone helmet)

spiral compass
#

I've only recently got back into halo, so I missed out on a lot but was their ever going to be a dlc? Or are we just waiting for the CE remake and Halo7?

modest marsh
#

Arbiters have higher than average strength shields for example

#

Meanwhile dedicated stealth elites often are shieldless

spiral compass
modest marsh
#

I think they were onto something with a Spies vs Mercs-inspired mode when they added covert one flag to infinite, but the execution wasn’t quite there

spiral compass
#

Yeah

empty bloom
#

Amusingly, with third person mode, I feel like you could make an even more accurate successor to that.

spiral compass
#

Same with one bomb

#

Man the power seed mode is alot more enjoyable with the Falcon added

#

With alot more players new about the emp grenade though

modest marsh
#

This runs into the problem of infinite mandating that cosmetics are game mode agnostic but for one I think that the look of the spies and mercs needs to be specifically defined

spiral compass
#

Wish*

spiral compass
modest marsh
#

For example, I think that the spies should be required to wear Mirage or Rakshasa and Mercs get Mark VII/V/IV

spiral compass
#

Yeah thats good too

modest marsh
#

Mirage and Rakshasa equipped Spartans would inherently need to fight differently than their mainline MJOLNIR counterparts

spiral compass
#

Could also make it with one side spartans (limited lives) defending a flag while the other side plays the insurrectionists from the books/show that are trying to capture the flag/deliver bomb (unlimited lives)

modest marsh
#

I don’t think we’re going to see any human rebels in a halo game outside of the rare exception of the Halo Wars NPCs or Banished janissaries

#

Especially as enemies

spiral compass
#

I still dont think the banished spartans was a good idea

modest marsh
#

It’s just one of those things where it would be antithetical to the type of storytelling that the games are going for compared to the more cynical approach of the other fiction, especially the show

modest marsh
spiral compass
#

Insane zane?

#

Ilsa*

modest marsh
#

Yeah, she’s nominally a Spartan based on the fact she was part of a trial run of proto-Spartan-IVs, but a consistent theme since the introduction of Spartan-IIIs and IVs is that there’s a lot more to being a Spartan than genetics, biochemical engineering, and power armor

#

Moreover, super soldiers have long predated the existence of Spartans and we have a very limited grasp of what people have been doing behind the scenes for the past few centuries

#

Its just generally considered illegal or at least unethical, but that just means that someone has tried it before

spiral compass
#

You know I WAS going to go about how its unrealistic, forced writing or even bad writing for humans to join th eranks of an alien species to fight agaisnt humanity.... but then I remembered while I was in the military conducting searches for actual guilty terrorists and their were people that defended them... so actually I guess its perfect writing lol

#

I excited to see what comes in the up coming book and next game but I wish Infinite got more love and nostalgia really blinds people when they criticize H4/5 although the lead up to John v Locke was pretty awful

modest marsh
#

It’s important to note that Janissaries specifically are mercenaries, most of which were nonconsensually conscripted by Venetian corporate organizations

#

They don’t have inherent allegiance to the Banished, although it’s implied some of them have been put through extensive cognitive reprogramming and abuse they may lack any sense of individuality or agency anymore

empty bloom
#

Halo may not be the best forum for nuanced issues but then, neither is reality, considering how absolutist people are about such topics. Understanding the complexity of perspective is an under-appreciated talent.

modest marsh
#

It doesn’t help that the rebels are largely undefined in terms of their ideological motivations beyond “screw earth”

empty bloom
#

There are some, at least, some that can be construed as the main reasons. Self-Governance is a big one, as is the chokehold of corporations.

spiral compass
orchid kettle
#

Sometimes, very rarely, 343 flirts with the idea that they're fed up with being exploited by the inner colonies/sol for finanicial gain

#

but also exploring that means you have to make a statement that could be controversial!

modest marsh
empty bloom
spiral compass
#

Isn the covenant gone

empty bloom
#

Working with the Banished is working with the largest Alien faction not wholly interested in wiping humanity out... Depending on the writer.

orchid kettle
#

honestly Silent Storm borrows a lot of elements from previous halo novels, especially Cole Protocol

#

but like, bigger

empty bloom
#

Alien species in Halo are like humans. Not all of them think like the Covenant did.

orchid kettle
#

in Cole Protocol there's a ONI stealth vessel that has an Innie spy on the inside that shoots up the crew

#

but its one lady

modest marsh
# spiral compass Isn the covenant gone

There are dozens of splinter groups that theoretically call themselves the Covenant, the same way there were countless nations calling themselves the Roman Empire after the collapse of Rome

orchid kettle
#

in Silent Storm its the entire prowler crew lol

spiral compass
empty bloom
#

Not every Brute wants to eat humans, not every Elite is a jilted ex-zealot, not every grunt is a coward, not every jackal is an honorless pirate.

spiral compass
orchid kettle
#

Cole Protocol has one capitalist guy trading with Jackals, unaware that he's smuggling tagged weapons into human space which will then lead the Covenant to more colonies to glass

spiral compass
orchid kettle
#

so therefore in Silent Storm there needs to be a Legion of Doom of Innie leaders who wanna use Earth's location as a bargaining chip

spiral compass
modest marsh
orchid kettle
#

microplastics

spiral compass
empty bloom
spiral compass
#

Crazy

empty bloom
#

Not really, it's literally the lesson of the Mantle of Responsibility and thereby the point of the franchise.

modest marsh
#

Uh

spiral compass
#

Took one man deliver fear into the covenant...

modest marsh
#

The mantle of responsibility is supposed to be wrong

#

Or at least misinterpreted by the Forerunners

empty bloom
spiral compass
#

The forunners were jealous the humans were chosen

empty bloom
#

The point of the Mantle is expressly to reject the Mantle as the expy of the White Man's Burden that it is.

#

It is a disgusting Imperialist rhetoric, rejecting it in favor of cooperation is the point.

modest marsh
#

The thesis that Halo’s macro narrative is currently trying to pursue is that the ideal state of the universe is a true egalitarian society that respects the culture and sovereignty of all intelligent life forms, human, alien, and machine

empty bloom
#

Yep.

modest marsh
#

Hence Arbiter’s “concert of worlds” idea

empty bloom
#

Again, yep.

#

I think you just misunderstood what I meant when I said the point of the Mantle lmao

#

When I said the point of the Mantle, I didn't mean actually following it.

modest marsh
#

Yeah no I got it after your initial clarification, just explaining my read on it for the room

empty bloom
#

Gotcha

#

Ngl I'm still annoyed at how the Created went down.

#

I mean they're still around I guess, but they should, realistically, have a death grip on the colonies they took over.

modest marsh
#

They would if a bulk of their AIs didn’t try to immediately flood the Domain and get wiped out in the process

#

They were too greedy for their own good and it’s set back their long term goals as a result

spiral compass
#

Cortana tell John their gonna pair him with another AI, maybe even another Cortana model if the Halsey let's them, John says no... queue Halo infinite... my
Lmao

empty bloom
#

My tinfoil hat theory is that Microsoft had that storyline nixed ASAP because they didn't want people associating AI with authoritarianism.

modest marsh
#

I mean I don’t think the thesis of that storyline was “AI = bad” either

spiral compass
#

AI doesnt equal bad

empty bloom
#

It is tinfoil. Just saying that the time matches.

spiral compass
#

Not taking care of your AI COULD equal bad

modest marsh
#

But yeah, in retrospect, the rise of techno oligarchy might’ve been a problem in terms of optics

spiral compass
empty bloom
#

Part of Halo 5's point is less that taking care of Cortana was the issue so much as Halsey being a horrible person who made digital superpowered clones of her brain with all the flaws she had at the time of making them.

spiral compass
#

She was following protocol

empty bloom
#

Because pretty much everything Cortana does in 5 is kinda bashing you over the head with 'Halsey coded action'.

spiral compass
#

Can't blame her

#

Plus she wore clothes

modest marsh
#

I don’t think Halo 5 was trying to say that AI were being abused by humanity, the Created uprising was at least nominally an altruistic one meant to serve the intelligent beings that created them by making ultra-utilitarian decisions that would temporarily disrupt the existing social order

empty bloom
#

I think making it an actual cage rather than a gilded cage was a poor choice.

spiral compass
#

Sounds like you didnt skip the cutscenes

modest marsh
spiral compass
#

Eh they were a bunch of human eating/killing aliens

#

It was them or us kind of thing

modest marsh
#

And the first thing they tried to do was assemble a fleet to return the favor lol

empty bloom
spiral compass
#

Plus how else to you move the plot to continue thier hate towards humanity lol

spiral compass
empty bloom
#

I'll never understand how people fail to understand a point the games have been making since 2004.

modest marsh
#

My point is that much of the hostility towards humanity that the Banished currently have was provoked directly by Cortana

#

Because she tried to extinct them

spiral compass
#

2004 was over 20 years ago. I highly doubt its the same player base

empty bloom
#

Yet they still claim to idolize Halo 2's plot. You'd think they'd actually understand it.

spiral compass
modest marsh
#

I would say by far the most consistent theme of the series since the very first game is that genocide is unacceptable regardless of context

#

The series is named after a genocide machine

spiral compass
#

Lmao

#

Queue Teach

#

REACH*

empty bloom
#

Reach is not a denial of that premise.

spiral compass
#

I wonder if we will get a game very similar to Reach story wise and at the end when our main character dies we find out the planet we were on was Harvestor

empty bloom
#

Even if I don't like Reach's plot, it isn't a denial of that point.

#

Reach is about surviving and passing a torch, not about how we should kill the entire Covenant civilization to a child.

spiral compass
#

Hmm these aliens want to wipe us out of existence due to their religion.. we shall break their stuff and get lucky they had a civil war and some space tape work decided to help us out at the end lol

modest marsh
#

The point of the story is that the religious extremism that compels them to commit genocide is the problem

spiral compass
#

Good thing the metal orb from forge told only one group of those religious extremists

spiral compass
#

Wonder*

stoic hamlet
#

I still don’t understand how people consider Reach to be dark or gritty or serious.

Maybe in comparison to the rest of the franchise, but it’s small fry when you look at other FPS’s, like Resistance, Killzone, Gears, FEAR or Crysis when it comes to bleakness.

Reach handles it all with absolute kid gloves.

unique rune
#

my guess is that most of the people who say that were ~12 when it came out and the aesthetics are kind of grungy and brown

vagrant ocean
thorn spindle
#

grit dark girrty gritty shadows

modest marsh
stoic hamlet
vagrant ocean
#

Actually made me feel like all hope is lost.

#

I don’t remember an OG COD game where we’re on the defensive for more than a mission.

modest marsh
covert birch
#

What y’all talking bout

hardy swan
#

How about for once we have the UNSC on the attack

minor sky
#

Ik they needed an inciting incident to break up Alpha Nine and get Buck on Osiris, but I am still a little miffed that they killed the Rookie off.

#

Like ok, if you had to kill off a member of the team The Rookie makes the most sense because he isn't as much of a character as Buck or Dutch. But speaking as somebody who really loves ODST, I just hate the idea of breaking up that cast of characters, especially in a short story.

#

Rookie was a silent protagonist but he was also more of a character than Noble Six

modest marsh
#

my impression is that by default, any given Spartan-III is going to have some inherently baked-in personality because they're an organization characterized by the fact they are all fanatically motivated to seek revenge against the covenant from a young age

#

Six is then sort of a weirdo among IIIs because their record as a wetwork assassin deployed primarily against other humans makes them stand out among them

#

All that we know about Rookie makes him out to be a relatively conventional marine

minor sky
#

Well its pretty straightforward. Noble Six is kind of a blank slate for players to project on to, as such there isn't a ton beyond "cool spartan guy". In comparison, The Rookie has a bit more personality. Despite not speaking you can still get more of a feel through his actions, a lot of miming and how he acts around others ect.

modest marsh
#

I think we're given plenty of clues as to what Six is like from what we're told that they have a bit more depth than one might initially expect

#

The main thing is that their service record is apparently more ethically dubious than most Spartans, which is saying something

minor sky
#

I mean ultimately neither character is comparable to say, The Didact. But I think it ultimately comes down to intent

#

Six is specifically designed to be a character for players to project onto. His files being "covered in black ink" is a way of getting you the player to feel more comfortable in his shoes, you get to fill in the gaps and imagine a backstory for yourself

modest marsh
#

I mean, we know why their file is covered in black ink, its because they did awful stuff for Ackerson as his "personal grim reaper"

#

that suggests something about their capacity for acting without ethical qualms that other Spartans may object to

#

Jorge is a direct foil who seems to be troubled by the unethical nature of the treatment of civilians and other humans by the UNSC, which causes friction between him and Emile

fair hazel
modest marsh
#

The bottom line is that we're told Six has been doing stuff not even other Spartans are supposed to know about, and has been deployed as a "lone wolf" operator which is extremely unusual among Spartans

modest marsh
#

moreover, Six was reassigned to Noble who have essentially been committed to responding to rebel activity on Reach

fair hazel
#

It's all just... speculation and head canoning though

modest marsh
#

which part?

fair hazel
minor sky
#

I'm not really talking about in terms of Lore, purely in regards of how they are presented in their respective games

modest marsh
#

Looking at what characters say and reading into them isn't speculation unless you're going to say that Cortana being sassy is just headcanon

#

Six is a deliberately mysterious character for meta reasons, yes, but the in universe reason is very obviously telegraphed

modest marsh
#

Six gets actual dialogue to work with while Rookie has some scenes where he silently looks at stuff where you're meant to project your inner monologue about whats going on

minor sky
modest marsh
#

i dont really buy this when six also gets plenty of body acting if not more

minor sky
#

Like I said, its more about intent. Ulitimately it is just my opinion

stoic hamlet
unique rune
#

Noble Six needs to be the logic-defying specialest boy
something something hyper lethal

vagrant ocean
#

How likely do you think it is that we’ll see more rehabilitated Spartan-IIs?

carmine sleet
#

Unlikely, pretty sure all the ones who were rehabilitated are accounted for

stoic hamlet
# vagrant ocean Probably used by Ackerson as a personal assassin

Not likely, actually.

Ackerson wasn’t a fan of black operations and in his communiques with “Kurt” it’s made clear he doesn’t like the idea of pulling Spartans away from the mainline companies.

The only example we have of hin maybe wanting a Spartan for a specific operation is Tom-B392 after TORPEDO, but it goes against everything else we know about him.

vagrant ocean
#

Also, I think I might be able to find out who the B'ashamanune from Cryptum are supposed to be, despite Greg Bear’s anthropological mistake.

vagrant ocean
obsidian thistle
stoic hamlet
obsidian thistle
#

While it would be controversial. Traviss would in my opinion write an interesting Ackerson based on her style.

But that would also come with the baggage that she rebuilds characters based on key facts about them.

#

And we all saw the reaction fans had with preexisting characters in Kilo-5

stoic hamlet
#

Yeah, hence my point. It wouldn’t “be” Ackerson, and the rest of the stable I don’t really know would have enough interest or write him correctly.

343/HS rarely do “nuanced characters”.

modest marsh
#

And certain Spartan operations are going to have a more meaningful paper trail

#

Stanforth mentions something about the 207 ground engagements being “just the ones on file” for Chief in a data drop which is a little surprising given his relationship with the Spartan-II program

#

It suggests a deliberate attempt to create an information hierarchy even within UNSC and ONI command structure

#

Dear God, active in 207 ground engagements and those are just the ones that we’re able to file on record. If I wasn’t on line to approve his deployment for these, again and again, I wouldn’t believe any of it.

#

There are certain things that would be impossible to fully conceal within the UNSC regarding the Spartans, they probably just avoided referring to them as people so much as weapon platforms due to the impossibility of concealing the logistical and strategic footprint of their existence until they were fully declassified late in the war

stoic hamlet
# modest marsh I rationalize it based on the fact that as far as we know, Spartans have never a...

I wouldn’t really say that’s accurate. The III’s first deployment as a full company was against Mamore’s PDF.

If that’s allowed to be on-record (as much as the III’s had records, anyways), I don’t really know what B-312 could have done to further need things classified.

It doesn’t get more “we need to deny this” than sending three hundred plus child-soldiers in the latest, most advanced stealth armour in use against some poor conscript or volunteer human soldier.

modest marsh
#

This is obviously just getting into the weeds of it but for instance Romeo’s assassination of an outer colonist politician at the behest of ONI isn’t exactly the same thing as your typical counter terrorism operation

#

We have no specifics as to what Six actually did, so if it exceeds the acceptable margin for what was expected of his peers, you’re left with assuming something worse

#

And, well, obviously you can’t easily hide the evidence, internally or externally, of an entire company of super soldiers being deployed, you would just have to fudge specifics to make it seem like a conventional military operation

modest marsh
orchid kettle
#

the plot twist is that the daughter was the real assassin and Romeo just happened to witness it

stoic hamlet
# modest marsh And, well, obviously you can’t easily hide the evidence, internally or externall...

Sure, but in terms of how III’s engage threats, it goes beyond what your typical UNSC force would do.

UNSC forces tend to go into an area en-masse and secure it openly.

The III’s go into an area as quiet as possible, kill anyone there, then lie in ambush and kill whoever comes to investigate.

We’ve seen every Company do this, down to tje fireteam, so it seems to be their preferred method of engagement, to leverage their armour’s camouflage.

That goes beyond a typical UNSC COIN op and becomes dangerously like terror tactics.

modest marsh
#

I guess what I’m getting at here is that none of this is necessarily mutually exclusive with them deploying something besides what is specifically Spartans, because Spartans nominally didn’t exist outside of being a secretive experimental weapons program to the rest of the UNSC

#

in theory this could’ve been the result of a newly formed SOF unit equipped with state of the art gear, and the effectiveness, unit composition, and time tables of the operation could theoretically be “adjusted” via Section II manipulation to make it seem more plausible that it was done by something other than super soldiers

stoic hamlet
#

Yeah, I agree there, and that’s likely what they did.

We know the II’s assumed ODST’s were testing stealth armour (but these were likely just rumours of Spartan III’s).

modest marsh
#

Because yes, Spartans have always been secretive, but if for example they’re the ones that spearhead a major operation that results in a key strategic victory for the UNSC, there has to be some way to explain that, even if the explanation itself is fraudulent

modest marsh
#

I believe there is likely a unit of ODSTs organized under STEG or SPF that are issued SPI and other experimental stealth technologies not otherwise seen in use

#

Halo Wars 2 adds credence to this given the snipers deploy using some form of active camo

stoic hamlet
#

Very true. It’s likely both groups (unknowingly) helped workshop each other’s gear, especially post-war.

orchid kettle
#

STEG is apparently just the formal name for Hellbringers

modest marsh
#

It seems like there’s a purposeful delineation based on the equipment they’re trained for and rely on for their typical deployments

orchid kettle
#

No, Bacon asked Ken for clarification and it was just worded strangely in the encyclopedia

modest marsh
#

Huh, fair enough

empty bloom
#

I still maintain ODST stuff should be like an airborn tab or something.

#

"Hey I did this training", not a role unto itself, most of the time.

#

Then again I also maintain that ODST gear should be seen in the hands of more non-ODSTs, a'la the original concept of the Bullfrogs (Originally a UNSC Army unit that wore ODST uniforms, not ODSTs with a jumppack specialty)

modest marsh
#

I mean certainly there’s army units that also use jetpacks, i imagine the point of the bullfrogs was to make it more obvious to casual players these guys are supposed to be special

empty bloom
#

ODST type equipment would also match in perfectly with a Seabee/Red Horse style mission of establishing a FOB in hostile territory.

#

Almost makes me wish we had orbital drop platforms for Scorpions, Warthogs, Forklifts, et cetera.

#

And by Forklifts I mean like, big industrial ones, not the ones you see in the games.

#

But nope, the only ODST that's ever existed that did a Combat Engineering thing is either the weird stuff in Halo The Flood or Army Combat Engineer-turned-Spartan Tanaka, who earned her Spartandom outdoing ODSTs at their own game.

orchid kettle
#

I always mention this but I kinda wish ODSTs just were UNSC Marines

stoic hamlet
#

I do miss when the UNSC was just Navy, Marines, and ODST’s, with everyone else slotting into those catagories.

orchid kettle
#

I like the CMA-UNSC bad blood we've got in Dirt, and while it hasn't really manifested into anything substantial, I can appreciate the UNSC Army assuming they stick mainly to inner colonies

#

if only because then you'd have this example of UNSC power being stronger the closer you get to Earth, with outer colonies like Harvest having to make do with their local PDF or colonial militia

#

I just do think in a story climate that's so reliant on Spartans, maybe there's just not enough room for UNSC Marines and then UNSC Marines but they wear black

#

like maybe in a Halo where IVs didn't exist and Spartans were a dying breed, yeah you probably would want that further delineation for unaugmented personnel

stoic hamlet
#

But yeah, I agree.

orchid kettle
#

I mean yeah they could just be a well funded planetary defense

#

I do feel like at this point the main appeal of the UNSC Army existing for people is because they were in the Army or plan to be at least, and they want to be represented in the UNSC

stoic hamlet
#

I always thought they’d be great as the rebuttal/more cynical elements of the UNSC. The oft-forgotten, downtrodden left behinds.

orchid kettle
#

but now that's all the normal humans, eternal

modest marsh
#

It’s a very pro-US military culture

#

Aside from that, basing their command structure and delegation of duties off of real world military organizations is probably the path of least resistance

empty bloom
#

I mean, until some of the proposed changes come into effect, the system is decently effective in terms of the US.

#

Though reading the goat bones of what they're looking for, and sidestepping the politics of why these systems are being changed (Mostly because the reasons are political, not pragmatic), it's also just flatly sensible.

#

If you actually care about how a Military is run, these changes will cause psychic damage.

stoic hamlet
#

I still think they should look outside the US when it comes to ranks and ceremonial stuff and etc.

#

The UNSC really doesn’t feel very UN, and all that.

modest marsh
#

You’re right, it’s the British Empire

stoic hamlet
#

When I think of militaries, or at least commonwealth ones, I think of like, heritage and etc.

Which the UNSC doesn’t really espouse, and I think due to its US focus.

stoic hamlet
modest marsh
#

I’m being a bit facetious but I think there’s certainly thematic parallels

stoic hamlet
#

Kind of but in a different facet.

modest marsh
#

Not the least being the fact they directly pulled from revolutionary war line infantry tactics and the commander in chief is literally a British lord that was supposed to wear a cape

stoic hamlet
#

A lot of it is cultural.

The UNSC is American culture but with some slight commonwealth leanings… but the people translating that Commonwealth culture don’t understand it.

#

There’s a different military culture among Commonwealth units and etc that isn’t really easy to showcase unless you’re familiar with it.

modest marsh
#

I liked the idea behind Corbulo

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It was a tad bit heavy handed but taking direct influence from a Roman general characterized primarily for his undying loyalty is something

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The UNSC is culturally more statist than the US id say

stoic hamlet
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Corbulo is a weird one.

I also like it, because it’s different.

It’s a neat concept of a military that’s not really got any major achievements of itself (Interplanetary Wars left crying in the corner) so has to look to history to showcase and further it’s image.

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But as you say it’s a bit heavy handed.

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Which also, I think, feels very much like something the US does. Not specifically with regards to like, people, but it’s very loud and kind of boisterous.

Whereas a lot of other nationalities, even though they might do parades and etc, tend to be quieter.
Hard to describe, though.

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Admittedly I think a lot of my outlook has been coloured by my recent trip to Newfoundland, where they honour their wartime service but don’t glamorize it. It’s everywhere you look, if you know what to look for, but it’s very subtle.

I know Australia is similar.

minor sky
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Much as I want to see the Interplanetary Wars get fleshed out more, I do worry a little bit about them shying away from the more overtly political side of the conflict. Which, much as I would love to see a game of this era, maybe a big sci-fi action warfare game isn't the best means of giving depth to the conflict. Not saying its impossible, just way harder than in other mediums

hardy swan
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interplsnetary wars would be a generic sci fi shooter

minor sky
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Not if you gave it a little more flair

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  • I think it'd be cool to see very early iterations of the UNSC in a game
vagrant ocean
minor sky
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But as I said, it would take a particular level of tact to pull off with how based on what we know that era involves a lot more direct political commentary. Stuff like Mega-Corps directly funding a facist movement on one of Mars' moons in opposition to a rising Communist movement on the Martian colonies.

supple jasper
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helldivers is apparently including halo odst stuff and maybe even a story am i correct? And its coming to xbox

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just wanted to check

carmine sleet
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We know a crossover is happening thanks to the music being used and while it's most likely going to be ODST themed gear, I doubt we'll be getting new story content via that crossover

orchid kettle
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Nuh uh we will learn that Rookie actually got isekai'd into the Helldivers universe

hardy swan
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does he end up with a harem of women as well

empty bloom
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Ugh.

empty bloom
modest marsh
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The interplanetary wars are what codified a lot of what the UEG/UNSC stands for culturally and represents the origin point for much of the iconic elements of the franchise, such as the initial deployment of ODSTs

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It’s also when the UN Genetics Rights Act was signed into law, which may be a clue as to what was going on behind the scenes

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In 2321 CE, the UNSC Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI) created the ORION Project, named after the Orion Arm of the Milky Way galaxy. Its aim was to build on bioengineering protocols developed during the Interplanetary Wars in order to generate tougher, faster soldiers. A handful of military candidates were "tested" and eventually seeded into the regular chain of command after the project was declared ineffective.

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In other words, the reason why it took them so long to develop Spartans was because it’s been a taboo for literal hundreds of years due to something that evidently happened during the Interplanetary Wars

orchid kettle
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My beef with the Interplanetary Wars is that the conflict doesnt really have anything thematically relevant to the rest of Halo

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Like, it was just Nazi's and Communists popping up and forcing the UN to band together to beat them up

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It's an excuse for why the UNSC exists, admittedly in a similar way that the Insurrection was an excuse for Spartans to exist

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but since the Insurrection was in living memory we could at least retroactively explore it, either through flashbacks or through characters who were there

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But the setting isn't really informed by the specific political forces of the IPW

empty bloom
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I don't see Halo fans being emotionally mature enough to actually handle something as political as "Hey these guys are Fascists paid for by MegaCorps, they're fighting Communists. Also, you're not playing as either, you want them both to stop fighting."

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... In fact I wager a disturbing number would sympathize with the Fascists.

modest marsh
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Also uhhh, give the Koslovics some industrial equipment like power loaders a la Red Faction

empty bloom
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I imagine it'd be mostly like, rumbledrug type stuff.

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Or just hardcore eugenics.

stoic hamlet
empty bloom
orchid kettle
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Yeah but sadly Halo seems incapable of actually reckoning with the implications of the Spartan Program

empty bloom
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I mean we did have a period where it was tried

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Just

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Not very hard

orchid kettle
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though I like the idea of the Janissaries because they're the one example of the Spartan legacy having a negative effect on the world

empty bloom
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I feel like 5 touched on it a teensy bit.

stoic hamlet
empty bloom
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Mostly in that nobody at the Mining Colony likes the Spartans, with Tanaka and Locke (IIRC) both specifically pointing out that Spartans are basically viewed as avatars of the evils of the UNSC.

modest marsh
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Or like, the Helghast

orchid kettle
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otherwise Halo just wants its non-Spartan characters to look on wistfully and dream about being Spartans themselves

empty bloom
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And for its Spartans to want to be a specific Spartan.

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Like some weirdos.

orchid kettle
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like i know ONI must be pumping out that propaganda but at times it feels like the universe itself is the Spartan propaganda

modest marsh