lore-and-universe

[minor sky]

And it still ends with Chief meeting the Libarian's "ghost", just without as massive of an infodump

[ionic tiger]

I kinda feel that’s what the H3’s terminal was hinting at with the Didact taking the other Forerunners on a “great journey” and leaving.

Which would be hilarious if Mendicant Bias DID sent Chief out towards where they went as a means of atonement only for them to see this weird primitive human sent by the AI they put in jail show up randomly.

[oak panther]

Does anyone know of a good YouTuber that explains the lore of halo

[dense falcon]

Katarn343, I trust no one else

[stoic hamlet]

Halo Canon was pretty good, when they were around.

But the best way to learn the universe is by looking at the primary sources, not have someone summarize. Even if they’re really good, Ubless they’re the actual creator, they’ll impart unintentional biases into their summary without actually quoting the source directly.

[oak panther]

Anyone have any other recs , katarn343 is Spanish and I don’t speak Spanish lol

I’m checking out halo canon rn

[oak panther]

Never mind halo canon is perfect

Thank you for the rec and advice @stoic hamlet

[gusty star]

Yeah just do what EternalCanadian said, Halo YouTubers get stuff wrong all the time

“Glassed half of Africa” like bruh

[carmine sleet]

Gotta love lines like that which are very clearly someone exaggerating something yet people take them literally

[obsidian thistle]

Today in ask a Halopedian. No one asks the Halopedian.

🤔

[carmine sleet]

To be fair, I just showed up

[strange pumice]

It's true actually
Halo 3, before allied forces with Sangheili and humans travelled to The Ark through portal in destroyed New Mombasa

Even Lord Hood said that

[carmine sleet]

Half of Africa wasn't glassed

Hood said that because he was heated during the discussion with Half Jaw about what to do regarding the Covenant and the Flood

[strange pumice]

"And you, Ship Master, just glassed half a continent! Maybe the Flood isn't all I should be worried about." - To Rtas 'Vadum.

[empty bloom]

... It's clearly hyperbole.

[gusty star]

This is exactly what I’m talking about, sometimes fans don’t use nuance. Lord Hood was obviously exaggerating. He tends to do that.

Do you really think 10 ships could glass half of Earth’s largest continent in less than an hour? Like come on

But since HiddenXperia takes it literally, now a large percentage of Halo fans do as well

[strange pumice]

I didn't watched any Halo lore youtubers, so can't say anything

[carmine sleet]

I will always remember him looking at a cracked screen in the teaser for the Banished being in Infinite and going "Flood tentacle on the screen!"

[strange pumice]

My own lore source is games and well written wiki about game

[gusty star]

Wiki is not a source

It’s fan-made

It’s a great source to find sources

[carmine sleet]

Aye

[gusty star]

Tbf this is not to discredit the work they do at Halopedia, it’s greatly-valued and one of the most vital fan creations in the community. But it is still capable of being incorrect

[thorn osprey]

Kammyshep

and Halopedia if you want a middleman

[gusty star]

I like Kammyshep but he actually gets a lot of stuff wrong

I wouldn’t rely on him

[stoic hamlet]

I’d rely on the actual sources~

[minor sky]

Covenant Canon and Installation 00 are good from what I remember. It's been a minute though

[oak panther]

I know I know I will one day but I’d rather watch an entertaining video about it

[stoic hamlet]

00 is not good. He often quotes directly from Halopedia without providing the source and posits his own fan theories as canon.

[minor sky]

I see

Like I said, it's been a while since I last watched his stuff

Covenant Canon picked up where Halo Canon seemed to have left off from what I remember watching of their videos

[orchid kettle]

bacon likes gammacompanymark if i recall because he talks about ships

but I dont think he uploads a ton

[minor sky]

Looking at their more recent stuff they seem to do a lot of in-universe framing for their videos with voice acting and stuff

[gusty star]

Covie Canon does a pretty good job of quoting directly from official sources or slightly rewording for the sake of the script. I just cringe at his videos sometimes but he's mostly good with lore (though he did pass off the Screecleaver outpost theory as fact in his latest video)

[magic breach]

You do know how MASSIVE these ALIEN ships are in a FICTIONAL world right?

[stoic hamlet]

This is true. Africa is clearly a made up place.

In all seriousness Hood’s comment is definitely hyperbole.

Just by tone alone.

[gusty star]

Shadow of Intent is a little over 3 miles long

Africa is 11,700,000 square miles

It’s literally just a character having personality

[warm ridge]

Yea, they're no where big enough to glass half of Africa. We know.

The entire story basically doesn't make any sense when you put any critical thought onto it at all. It has more plot holes then swiss cheese.
Only way Halo's story made any real sense is if they were separate, Bungie clearly thought so which is why all the "humans = forerunner" stuff got scrapped by them anyways.

well until you read this anyways

Truth: "I opened the portal to this hallowed place, this shelter from Halo's fire, in the hopes that more of our Covenant would join us. Alas, save for a rabble of Heretics and their Demon allies, we are all that remains on this new world. So we must temper joy and sorrow in our hearts, for those who were left behind."

By modern standards, it took the Flood hundreds of years to "get out of hand" during that era for Ancient Humanity.

[sour raven]

Its a miracle that the unsc and covies were able to deal with it

[orchid kettle]

Im not sure what you're getting at

Like Truth even in CH thinks the Great Journey is still a thing, he just thinks the existence of surviving humans/forerunners means that the unworthy are left behind

oh come on what word was even banned there

[orchid kettle]

I was just saying that the Covenant justified their exploitation of the lower species' with the promise of eventual godhood for all loyal followers

And Truth is thinking in his little peanut brain that people will riot if it turns out only the cool people get to go to heaven

the "truth" that he knows and keeps hidden in this scenario is just the relationship between humans and forerunners. But he's not fully aware of all the details.

[warm ridge]

Truth seems to know the rings will "kill everyone" and the Ark is a shelter from the "fire". The "great journey" = the Ark.

And he straight up admits this to his Brutes so uh, yeah.

[orchid kettle]

truth is just a silly lil boi

like, if tartarus succeeded in firing Delta Halo

[sour raven]

Genocide and all that

[orchid kettle]

wouldnt he just be dead

because the keyship would be in slipspace

though I guess now we've been told the keyship may protect you from the array because the Covenant survivors from Divine Wind apparently holed up within it to survive 08's premature firing

but like--

you exit slipspace and come face to face with an entirely empty galaxy

how do you placate the Brutes in your entourage and convince them you totally didnt make them miss the rapture lol

[sour raven]

And now we still got covie remnants that still want the great journey

[orchid kettle]

I feel like even in the old version of Halo 2's story, where the Ark is on Earth, you still kinda have to do some handwavium to make it seem like Truth had any reason to think he had time to run into the Ark before Tartarus wiped out all life in the galaxy

[sour raven]

Hey wait, if that one guy succeeded in empty throne, wouldnt the didact be there to stop him

[orchid kettle]

Maybe?

[sour raven]

Heh, thats funny

[orchid kettle]

I honestly forget if Epitaph implied that Didact actually managed to wrestle control away from Cortana or if he just beat up a couple of smart AI and that was it

and otherwise he could only plead with her as a hologram to stop being so dang evil

[vagrant ocean]

He managed to shut down any access to the Domain

[orchid kettle]

the plan always seemed kinda janky to me because like-- why does Nesto think the Domain would make him the top dog

why wouldnt it just turn Chloe into the new big cheese

[warm ridge]

Not true, Epitaph had him start on a mission in an attempt to shut down all the access points to the Domain. He never "shut them all down" all at once.

You can see further evidence of this at the end of Empty Throne, where they're trying to shut down the access point that later gets blown up.

Empty Throne is easily over a month after the events of Epitaph.

[warm ridge]

End of Epitaph has both Forthencho & the Didact hunting down all the access points in an attempt to shut them down, along with eliminating access to any and all Created AI still in the Domain.

[warm ridge]

Installation 08 never fired, it shook itself to pieces before it fired at all. Otherwise Chief would be dead. Same with Arbiter.

You can see it blowing up in the background actually. The entire ring is no longer a "perfect circle". It's completely shifted, then a massive explosion is seen happening before it cuts away.

[orchid kettle]

"When Halo fired, it shook itself to pieces. Did a number on the Ark"

[warm ridge]

yea it "blew up" before the firing completed. That's why none of the life on the Ark died. Lots of life survived. Basically nothing went extinct or died..

you should already know this considering we have -
Hunters in the Dark
Halo Wars 2

whatever other sources mention the Ark at all

[orchid kettle]

In Divine Wind they said it did fire.

“You said a Sacred Ring launched prematurely,” Castor said, recounting what Bhasvod had told him hours earlier. “The Ark was nearly destroyed.”

“We thought it was destroyed. When the Ring launched, it also fired. We had half our strength deployed out on the surface, trying to draw the human forces away from the Prophet of Truth, and we lost them all. Only those of us who happened to be inside the Dreadnought’s shielding were spared.”

[warm ridge]

yes..? This is a recount of what Bhasvod thought happened, he had no idea if the ring successfully activated or not. All he knew is everything blew up.

[orchid kettle]

He literally says it fired

[warm ridge]

You're relying on 3rd party evidence to prove a point when we already had this point proven ages ago.

[orchid kettle]

Again my man

Bhasvod isn't a real person

[warm ridge]

From a Prelate who thought it fired, again, read the message.

[orchid kettle]

He only says what the writer wants him to say

and at the very least, Troy Denning in Divine Wind is under the impression the ring fired

[warm ridge]

Yes, which the writer wants the perspective of Bhasvod, so in this context, Bhasvod is a real person.

The writer itself already knows the actual truth, Bhasvod does not.

Bhasvod still thinks the Great Journey sends everyone to heaven, so go figure. The writer, doesn't.

[orchid kettle]

Yeah because that delusion is a foundamental aspect of the character's motivations

[warm ridge]

So as I said, you're relying on 3rd party evidence from the perspective of a Prelate who doesn't know what actually happened.

[orchid kettle]

whether or not the ring fired or it just exploded and his troops were crushed by debris is not

[warm ridge]

You're relying on the delusional beliefs of a Prelate who doesn't know what happened, does that help?

[orchid kettle]

Im not, Im relying on what Denning and the Halo 3 campaign writers have said

[warm ridge]

You are, you aren't relying on what Denning, the writer, knows.

You're relying on delusional beliefs that Bhasvod believes, which Denning wrote down, as delusional beliefs.

Because the Great Journey is a delusional belief.

Again, does that help?

[orchid kettle]

Honestly at this point I dont know why you're not just arguing that Denning is mistaken

Like how he wrote that Lucy towered over Lopis

[warm ridge]

Denning isn't mistaken because he isn't the one who said the ring fired, he already knows that isn't the case based off -
Hunters in the Dark
Halo Wars 2

[orchid kettle]

Why would that make Denning incapable of being wrong

He's a human being like anyone else

[warm ridge]

Basically anything to do with the Ark at all past 2552 proves the ring never fired fully.

If it did, no life would be present on the Ark still, simple as that.

[orchid kettle]

Staten didnt know Epsilon Eridani and Eridanus were two different star systems in Contact Harvest

[warm ridge]

I'm not really sure why you're in such denial over this.

Or why your relying on delusional beliefs of a bunch of covenant members.

[orchid kettle]

Because I think its easier to believe a writer made a mistake than because Denning decided his characters needed to be misleading in their exposition even when being accurate in their information would have been perfectly reasonable for their character and the situation.

[warm ridge]

Start over dude. @orchid kettle

The characters aren't going to know the entire truth about it all, and the writers write characters in this exact way.

[orchid kettle]

They really dont

[warm ridge]

Yes, they really do.

[orchid kettle]

They really dont lol

You have characters be wrong for the sake of dramatic irony or to showcase the faults of their character

aka-- for purpose

but you dont need to introduce confusion for your audience for no greater reason beyond "the character might assume this but state this as a fact"

Nothing changes about the characterization if you leave out the part where the prelate says the ring fired

[warm ridge]

For example, the Weapon. She has no idea she's a clone of Cortana, but we the players do.
The writers have to write the character in a way that has her completely oblivious to this fact.
Until she finally recognizes it herself sometime later.

This same thing is happening with Bhasvod, he has no idea if the ring fired at all, or what the rings true purpose is in the 1st place. All he knows is a giant explosion happened and Truth, along with 50% of there fighting force, all died or vanished. He's assuming the ring sent them to "god hood", which didn't happen.

He never sent out scouting parties either and remained locked up inside the Keyship.

[orchid kettle]

My guy, please read what Im saying

the character being wrong when there's a greater narrative purpose is different than the character just being wrong for no reason

[warm ridge]

I did, it's you completely misunderstanding what Bhasvod said and what the truth is.

Like that's all this is.

[orchid kettle]

My guy

Please

Examine this argument for a nanosecond

[warm ridge]

You're trying to take the perspective of what a character said as gospel when you really shouldn't be, because that's not how books or characters are written.

[warm ridge]

Which happens all the time in Halo novels & books.

[orchid kettle]

and try to think what the difference is between the narrative purposes of the Weapon being ignorant of her origins and a character saying a thing fired versus that thing merely exploding

[warm ridge]

No confusion is happening here, the audience is fully aware that Bhasvod = Covenant, and he still thinks the Great Journey is real.

If someone does get confused about this, they can just ask other people or read more Halo lore material to figure it out on there own.

Characters assuming things as facts happens all the time in Halo lore, and in other gaming related media to. This isn't some "once in a life time thing" dude. Like every franchise with a story does this.

[orchid kettle]

Where does it say in the Covenant religion that when a Halo ring explodes, you need to describe it as "firing"

My guy, please, think for a second

why does it even hurt you to admit that Denning just made a mistake

Like Im not even fighting you about whether or not 343 believes the ring fired or not

[warm ridge]

Except it does.

1. He says they thought the Ark was destroyed, it was not.
2. He says the ring fired, it didn't. Otherwise they would be dead along with all life on the Ark.

[warm ridge]

I did already, and my conclusion on how you're trying to see this remains the same. You're relying on delusional beliefs of a Covenant member to try and explain that the "ring fired", which we both know it didn't. Again, various halo media in existence proves this.

[orchid kettle]

Notice the operative word in that sentence: "thought"

Meanwhile there is no doubt in his tone for "When the ring launched, it also fired."

[warm ridge]

It's basically the same thing used in the context I provided above.

[orchid kettle]

Its really not. Your argument just boiled down to "characters can believe things that aren't true!" with no greater regard for context

[warm ridge]

No where, in fact Covenant religion doesn't even know what a Halo ring firing looks like. All they know is a ring being activated = sends them to the Great Journey.
This is again what Bhasvod assumed happened, that Truth was sent to become a god. He obviously wasn't.

[warm ridge]

Because Denning didn't make a mistake here at all, the character Bhasvod is wrong, but Bhasvod doesn't know this. Denning simply wrote the character in the exact way Bhasvod would behave & act.

[orchid kettle]

i mean you could argue Denning beefed up here too with how he describes it as "losing" his men

and not like

"Our comrades were taken by the Forerunners into the great everlasting!" or whatever

[warm ridge]

A lot more then that, but yes characters can believe and say things that aren't true. This doesn't confuse the reader at all either, especially when context has already been given on what really happened in previous Halo media.

No where here did Denning make a mistake writing the character in this way.

[orchid kettle]

Like how you had to add "in previous Halo media" lol

as if we're still not getting books that have to explain to the reader what the Covenant is in case they didnt know

[warm ridge]

It's like a Grunt saying Chief died, but you're playing as Chief in Halo Infinite, clearly not dead.

Did the guy who wrote Halo Infinite make a mistake when they had the propganda grunt guy saying Chief died? No lol

[orchid kettle]

Again, you have to consider context. Chief was considered dead and gone for six months. That's actively part of the story. No player is confused because a few hours earlier you watched Chief get tossed out into space. You know why characters would believe that. And "rebirth" has outright been stated to be a major theme of Infinite, and Chief "returning from the dead" is part of that.

[warm ridge]

Because it's true..?

[orchid kettle]

"Nobody would be confused! Assuming of course they read what is often regarded as the worst and most pointless Halo book in the franchise, and played the RTS spinoff that underperformed so hard that it may have killed any chance for a sequel."

[warm ridge]

We really aren't, not in how it functioned or behaved anyways. It still gets mentioned, but the context requires you to have played or read previous Halo media about the Covenant to understand what they're talking about.

This applies to like, all Halo novels in general?

[orchid kettle]

The visuals from the Spartan’s heads-up display had frozen on the holographic display before him. He’d seen this footage before. In fact, he’d seen it many times. This was humanity’s first encounter with Halo, the network of seven ringworlds created by an ancient civilization known as the Forerunners. This seminal event had serendipitously signaled the beginning of the end of twenty-seven years of war against a religious alliance of alien species called the Covenant. It was this discovery that would ultimately bring humanity’s salvation.

Empty Throne

[warm ridge]

So now that Chief is back & fully alive with you playing as him, to you, it would be a mistake for the Propganda Grunt guy to say Chief is dead, and you would call this a mistake done by the writers.

It's not a mistake tho, not at all. The propaganda grunt served the purpose of damaging the morale on whatever surviving UNSC forces were still left.

So, back to what Bhasvod said, it's not a mistake for him to believe the rings fired, because from his perspective, that's what he assumed happened cause everyone on the outside was now gone. Along with him believing the Great Journey.

That's all the context you need to know what he said simply isn't true. The reader would also know this just from reading the book from the beginning, along with having the context about what happens in Halo Wars 2 & Hunters in the Dark.

[orchid kettle]

The reader would also know this just from reading the book from the beginning

What do you mean?

At the very least, somebody coming from just the games would have no reason to think anything is particularly wrong with the situation on the Ark

Guilty Spark said in CE that Halo did not wipe out all life, and Cortana claimed it did not wipe out the Flood directly so much as its food.

and naturally, the Banished came after the fact, and Denning explains that the Covenant survivors were protected by the keyship.

Like from their point of view, nothing is particularly wrong with the Prelate's account

Halo Wars 2 of course already has the issue of expecting you to believe that blowing up High Charity didnt actually do much at all, but that's neither here nor there.

[warm ridge]

Not sure why you're typing it out like this, but yea that's 100% correct.
Those 2 sources aren't the only sources in Halo media saying this either. We have the Eleventh Hour Reports from Waypoint also.
And the Halo Encyclopedia (2022) tells us this to.

You don't have to pretend to still be living in 2016 you know.

[orchid kettle]

You're right, why didnt the divine wind readers read a book from the future.

[warm ridge]

Idk what this paragraph from a book is supposed to point out.

[orchid kettle]

That its a recap of both the original trilogy and what the covenant are.

Because you said we dont get books doing that

And thats in Empty Throne.

[warm ridge]

The book, Divine Wind, is about Castor trying to start the Great Journey. Anyone who reads the book would already know the Great Journey doesn't actually exist, they aren't going to assume Great Journey ='s god good, like what Castor believes.

anyone that has the context of previous Halo media anyways. If you don't, it's why you ask questions or dive deeper into Halo lore in order to find out the truth yourself. Not a hard thing to grasp.

[orchid kettle]

Again dude, how is that relevant.

The Covenant know the rings can blow up

[warm ridge]

It's completely relevant.

[orchid kettle]

Because they know Alpha Halo blew up

thats why Thel is the Arbiter

[hardy swan]

Hmm

[warm ridge]

None of this has to deal with anything I just said at all.

[orchid kettle]

my guy, I remember what you said.

[orchid kettle]

this

how does knowing Castor is wrong because he's the bad guy and obviously fanatical relate to the Prelate character just communicated events incorrectly

Where is the connective tissue here

[warm ridge]

If you came straight off of Halo 3 into Divine Wind without the context of all previous Halo media before it, yea you're going to be incredibly confused & have no idea who Castor even is or why he exist. You aren't going to know anything about his character at all, or even what the Keepers of One Freedom are. Or who the Banished are.
Or even why the Ark has seemingly been fixed / repaired at all. None of it would make any sense. All of this requires Halo media which came out before this.

[orchid kettle]

Nah, Castor is actually a pretty easy Covenant remnant faction to swallow

Because like, yeah, the Brutes were aligned with the covenant

fast forward a few years

Castor, a Brute, still believes

[empty bloom]

"I still believe in the Covenant religion"

Bam, character understood

[hardy swan]

Halo needs to stop making books a necessary thing to read to connect the universe

[empty bloom]

Good, mission already accomplished lmao

[orchid kettle]

Divine Wind specifically as your first book would be crazy because it happens like two seconds after shadows of reach

But Denning does try and give you a recap, even if its just a sentence at first

He and forty of his followers—the Keepers of the One Freedom—were aboard a Lich transport craft stolen from the Banished warmaster Atriox, transiting a slipspace portal that connected the human planet Reach to Installation 00—also known as the Ark.

like its hardly great but there's some effort to remind people whats happening

[warm ridge]

Uh..yea, Spark did say this.
Spark specifically said in Halo CE that activating Halo will end all sentient life in the galaxy.
"Alas, activating Halo will end all sentient life in the galaxy."
"this galaxy will be quite devoid of life, or at least any life with sufficient biomass to sustain the Flood"
devoid of life = death, dead.

Cortana claimed it did not wipe out the Flood directly
Correct, so did Spark. Not sure what the problem here is. I'm also not sure how any of this is relevant to the convo above.

[orchid kettle]

are blind wolves sentient

because i know sometimes people use that interchangeably with "sapient"

[unique rune]

there'd barely be a universe to connect without the books

[warm ridge]

Yes the Covenant survivors were protected by the Keyship because the ring literally exploded and did massive damage to the installation.
Without that keyship, few if any could survive at all. We know life did survive on the Ark, but just because some life survived doesn't mean all life did. The keyship protected all life inside of it. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

[orchid kettle]

I do understand lol

But when it happened, multiple characters have described it as the ring firing.

Obviously it wasnt to the same full effect, thats obvious

But like, even if it did

[warm ridge]

Halo 3 said this to when it came to the Flood, that all you did was hurt it, bought you some time. You didn't actually kill anything.
It's never said how much damage you really did to High Charity or not either, that part is entirely left up to interpretation until Halo Wars 2 revealed most of High Charity was still intact.

again..how is any of this relevant? It's not helping you.

[orchid kettle]

What is

the Ark

[hardy swan]

Hopefully Halo 7 happens immediately after Halo Infinite

[orchid kettle]

would the sentinels not just repair and repopulate the species from their extensive library of samples

Assuming there's a cylix storage facility anywhere near on the same level as what we saw on Zeta Halo

because, you know-- Zeta Halo fired too once

and there's life on it.

[warm ridge]

My point is you don't have to pretend it's 2016. Halo Divine Wind came out in 2021 btw.
By 2021 we already had plenty of context surrounding the Ark, so anyone reading Divine Wind could pay attention to that previous context which I already listed above.

[orchid kettle]

In fact, all the Halo rings have fired before

and they still have life.

[warm ridge]

Divine Wind is not a recap.

[orchid kettle]

Oh my god dude

Please, please take a second to read carefully.

I never called an entire book a recap.

Im referring to the segment from Empty Throne you said you weren't seeing the relevance of.

Where a character recapped the events of the Halo trilogy, including a brief explanation of what the Covenant were.

[warm ridge]

I never said books didn't recap stuff, I'm just telling you that if you want context on how things work, you read previous Halo media. Not sure what "gotcha" you're trying to pull here tbh.

[orchid kettle]

So please, please oh please, explain this

Where in Divine Wind does Denning write the words "Actually, the ring didn't fire, it exploded before firing and the destruction that came afterwards was purely the result of that."

[warm ridge]

The connective tissue is knowing both characters are fanatical religious believers who think a weapon that can kill everyone sends you to god hood? You aren't supposed to believe every word they say dude.

[orchid kettle]

You're right

In fact Im starting to think Castor isnt even this guy's real name

I bet its something embarassing, like Steve

if character is wrong about one thing, how can they be right about unrelated thing?

[hardy swan]

Steve Brutegregor

[warm ridge]

for Halo's definition, all organic life with a nervous system (a central brain) is sentient. So yes.

[orchid kettle]

Okay cool.

So how do the Halo rings have life after they fired.

[warm ridge]

They don't, none of them do. The original array fired in such a way that prevented life from being killed on the rings. The new array doesn't do this.

Now you might ask "so how do they have life on them after the rings fired"
you didn't pay attention to the reseeding efforts, did you? Of course life got reseeded on the rings, same for every other planet.

if you ask "so why did life get reseeded on the rings then"
Idk, not my question to answer.

[orchid kettle]

The rings that fired 100,000 years ago are the same array

[warm ridge]

Read the sentence again, no one said they were different rings.

[orchid kettle]

my guy

[warm ridge]

2 different Halo arrays existed. did you not know this?

The original array, and the current array.

https://www.halopedia.org/Halo_Array

[vagrant ocean]

And only one ring of the original array exists.

Albeit modified

[warm ridge]

Which got modified to fire in the same way the current array fires.

[orchid kettle]

And you thought when I said "How do the Halo rings have life after they fired?" I was referring to the original array?

Because you also said "They don't, none of them do".

so like, what are you even saying

[warm ridge]

Because none of the current Halo array has life on the surface of them after they fire, you for whatever reason assumed they did, otherwise you wouldn't be asking that question at all.

I am simply telling you the original Halo array did do this, all life on the surface remained intact, which is probably where you got confused.

[orchid kettle]

oh no I got bad news

Hunters in the Dark also says the ring was fired.

As in, literally the verb "fired"

The Ark had endured extreme amounts of damage when the Master Chief and the Arbiter had activated an unfinished Halo installation to stop the threat of the Flood. When the ring fired, it literally rent itself apart, and between the intense energy released from the Halo and the debris after its destruction, the Ark had been ravaged.

“High Charity,” Usze said, “the Covenant Holy City. When the Flood had taken full control of it, the parasite used it to get here. That’s why your Master Chief fired the unfinished Halo at this place. To stop the Flood from dominating the Ark, and thereby cutting off any chance of its spreading across the galaxy.”

[warm ridge]

We have Cortana who said the ring shook itself to pieces during it's firing sequence, she has no idea if the ring properly fired or not. Context tells us the ring never fired properly.
We have a Prelate saying he thinks the ring fired & Truth was successful, but** context tells us this is not what happened at all.**
Context matters dude.
You have a severe lack of understanding regarding both these sentences.

[orchid kettle]

And then, in December of that same year, the replacement for Alpha Halo was destroyed when humans prematurely fired it above an extragalactic superstructure the Forerunners referred to as the Ark.

[warm ridge]

No, because if the ring fired, then all life on the Ark would be perma dead. No repopulating could take place, because it'd all be dead.

[orchid kettle]

My guy take it up with the book writers

Im just telling you what they said.

[warm ridge]

The only cylixes that have living life in them would be the ones containing the Endless / members of the Endless, any of the others are presumed to be long dead due to the Halo rings. Effectively floating coffins.

Unless Cylixes turn organic life into digital life somehow Idk.

[orchid kettle]

“If I had to guess,” said Lamb, “I would say the latter. Perhaps when the replacement Halo fired, the damage caused to the citadel destabilized something—maybe the power source was struck and shorted out. That makes far more sense than it just being shut down for no reason. Then again, with the AI out there, anything is possible.”

[warm ridge]

already explained above.

[orchid kettle]

Where does it actually say the individuals within the Cylixes are dead?

Because it seems pretty clear that they're not physically within those thin slabs, and it looks like they're essentially kept in a pocket dimension not unlike what happened to those Gammas in GoO

[warm ridge]

I already did, the reader would already be fully aware of all the context regarding the Ark, and what actually happened with Installation 08.
#lore-and-universe message
Unless your completely new to the franchise, but I've already explained this to. -> #lore-and-universe message

[orchid kettle]

And again my man

[warm ridge]

Read above.

[orchid kettle]

There's no connective tissue with the characters being followers of a false religion and being incapable of relaying events accurately.

Especially when the inaccuracy in question isnt even posed in a particularly fanatical or religious way

[warm ridge]

Not really, it's saying what happened during it's firing process. By ripping itself apart. This caused massive damage to the Ark.

[orchid kettle]

the Prelate's report is pretty objective-sounding in how its delivered.

[warm ridge]

what does prematurely firing mean to you

[orchid kettle]

It still means firing.

[warm ridge]

I don't need to, you do tho.

[orchid kettle]

A gun prematurely firing still fires.

[warm ridge]

It means the ring never fully fired. Exactly what I've been telling you this whole time.

[orchid kettle]

No, thats what you would call an "attempted firing"

Or even a misfire

But its always just "fire"

[warm ridge]

No, it isn't. An attempted firing means nothing actually happened, it warmed up, then shut off.

[orchid kettle]

^

[warm ridge]

A premature anything means it didn't fire to 100%, because something happened. Like a tank round exploding in the chamber, did it do any damage to the target? No.

[orchid kettle]

Okay, but you've been saying the ring exploded and damaging the Ark doesnt count as "firing"

[warm ridge]

Misfire is literally the same thing I just said. It's failing to discharge, never ignited. Warmed up, then shut off.

misfire - (of an internal combustion engine) undergo failure of the fuel to ignite correctly or at all:

The ring would've never blown up if it misfired or attempted to fire, it wouldn't of done anything actually.

a premature firing means something actually happened, but not to 100%. For whatever reason you seem to think the ring fired at 100%, it did not. Because it blew up.

[orchid kettle]

Okay, cool.

Ive never argued it was a totally normal firing lol

[orchid kettle]

Like, this is what started this

This is the position you've been arguing.

[warm ridge]

Because I am telling you the ring never emitted a Halo pulse, it never fired. Because it shook itself to pieces & blew up. All the energy was put into a nuclear explosion instead of a radiation pulse.

aka prematurely firing.

You this entire time have held the belief that it did fully activate, when it didn't.

[orchid kettle]

I haven't, actually.

I've said it fired, when you claimed it never fired.

[warm ridge]

then why would you be asking "how did life survive on the ark" ?

that answer is obvious, if you knew the answer you wouldn't ask the question.

[orchid kettle]

You've been asking that.

Ive said before that i dont think its unreasonable that Tragic Solitude just dug into her cylix collection and repopulated the installation

[warm ridge]

Also if you read exactly what I've been telling you this entire time, you'd realize I've already said this multiple times anyways. @orchid kettle

[orchid kettle]

The characters repeatedly refer to it as being fired

Which the same verb they use to refer to the original firing 100,000 years ago

[warm ridge]

I haven't asked that once. You did though. I've simply been telling you the answers.
#lore-and-universe message
#lore-and-universe message
#lore-and-universe message

[orchid kettle]

The characters at least dont really draw distinction besides the premature part.

[warm ridge]

Yes, characters that don't actually fully know what happened. We've been over this already.
#lore-and-universe message
#lore-and-universe message

[warm ridge]

I've been saying this multiple times now and haven't changed my position on this so uh.

[orchid kettle]

Only one of those is actually about the Ark and I was framing my argument as a question as, you know, a rhetorical device.

Im asking the question because I know the answer, or at least, have a satisfactory enough explanation

[orchid kettle]

Yes, we have To an exhausting amount, really. And what you have said about the subject hasn't convinced me one bit.

[hardy swan]

Wow you two are still at it

[warm ridge]

No where, I'm just going with the idea that the individuals are actually inside those Cylixes, not in some pocket dimension or slipspace.
Because the only known tech capable of doing this were Timelocks, and all the lore provided for Cylixes so far don't suggest they're Timelocks at all.

Timelocks = Slipspace field pods, Durances, Prison Field cages big enough to house the Primordial. https://www.halopedia.org/Timelock
Cryptums are also capable of doing this.

Something you'll notice is at least 2 examples here are bigger then Cylixes. (Cryptums & Prison field cages)
Durances aren't, but Durances aren't meant to house organic bodies in the 1st place.
We have no idea how big Slipspace field pods are either, but I assume they're meant to mimic Cryo Pods in shape & size, which means they're also bigger then Cylixes. Like having the ability to see what is inside, a clear view of it. You don't have this with Cylixes, you just have a faint imprint on what it's supposed to be.

[orchid kettle]

Luther turned to address them, shielding his face from the blankets of snow now coming down. “We have very little to go on here, but I have a theory.”

“Let’s hear it,” the Spartan prodded.

“The Ark isn’t just a manufacturing plant for Halo rings. It was used as a sanctuary for life found across the galaxy, not just sentient life but species that depended on sentient creatures for their survival, whether for care or food or whatever.”

“You are saying,” N’tho attempted to clarify, “that the Forerunners kept the natural predators of sentient species on the Ark so they wouldn’t go extinct when the sentient beings on their own world suddenly died off?”

“Yes, they were trying to save entire ecosystems, not just sentient beings, whenever the Halo was activated. If they save a sentient being but return it to a world that is in the throes of ecological collapse, then no one wins.”

this is what i mean by Halo not knowing what "sentient" means

because here Luther is talking about all the crazy wildlife chasing after him and the gang, like the silent wolves

but clearly when Luther says "sentient" here, he means "sapient", like humans, Sangheili, or whatever

[warm ridge]

I already told you how characters work in the Halo universe, they're written in a way where they don't know everything to 100%, or even what all is going on. They even get things wrong at times, or deny it's true at all (the weapon being a clone of cortana is a good example here).
We do, they don't, so they're written that way on purpose.

[orchid kettle]

Ive already explained why I dont really buy that logic but even with that reasoning-- Luther should know the difference between sentient and sapient

Which is why I say that when we get straight exposition like this, its information the author at least is working under

Luther's ultimate point in the chapter is that a Forerunner AI is using the local wildlife to harass the gang

which he is correct about

Like obviously Luther's character may have an effect on how the information is filtered, but the point of this sequence is that Luther's information is meant to be believed

[warm ridge]

Luther is simply going with the idea that the Ark is a sanctuary for all life, sentient or not. Which it is.
The Halo rings targeted Sentient life only, not all life. Luther is correct here.
The context for how Luther is using this though is wrong, because natural predators are sentient to.

Considering you already know how halo rings work & what they actually target, I don't think I should have to tell you that the Forerunner trilogy of books perfectly explains it. So do the CEA terminals, Halo CE itself, the games, etc.

I also shouldn't have to tell you about the Prototype halo ring seen in Shadow of Intent either that targeted everything, all life. Not just sentient, literally everything.

[empty bloom]

It's pretty normal for one of them.

[orchid kettle]

And N'tho claims that said "natural predator" would have been left untouched after the Halo rings fired, to which Luther affirms

[warm ridge]

It's incredibly normal for you to be honest.

[warm ridge]

it's only been an hour tbh.

[orchid kettle]

actually

The Minister stroked the fleshy wattle hanging from his chin. “I have been testing the device at only a fraction of its power. Even if we were to increase the pulse by twenty percent, that would be more than enough to wipe all sentient life from Sanghelios and its moons. We shall annihilate the Sangheili home system and set back their species for ages to come!”

[hardy swan]

in the same hour I reheated leftovers and had my lunch

[warm ridge]

yes..? This is what the Minister thinks, the function of the prototype ring itself could release pulses that damaged ships even.
I don't really know why you're trying to argue against this after we just had that one massive convo that had me clearly pointing out what the characters say isn't always accurate nor is it meant to be believed. Did you learn nothing?

Because the prototype ring erased organic life, it didn't just kill you. Your whole body turned to dust. Halo rings normally do not do this.

where they inspected what remained of the Sangheili. “Nothing, in fact,” the Minister of Preparation said, carefully inspecting an analysis of the chamber’s air, scrolling up the arm of his throne. “I would say vaporized. But that would mean trace particles remain.” One corner of the Minister’s wide mouth curled into a smile. “They are, simply, gone.”

Staten, Joseph. Halo: Shadow of Intent (p. 8). Simon & Schuster. Kindle Edition.

[orchid kettle]

Id love to know how your mind works

Why would Sangheili being vaporized mean that all life is targetted and not just sentient life

[unique rune]

what about their gut microbiome
if it didn't target all life then obviously they'd find all the bacteria and stuff that live on their skin and in their guts remaining

/s

[warm ridge]

It's not just a Sangheili being vaporized, it's the entire organic body. That means all organics are targetted 100%. Not sentients only. You're once again misunderstanding.

[orchid kettle]

"this Sangheili's gut biome is absolutely terrible"

[warm ridge]

Nope, all organics gone. Blood to. Disappeared.

The Prelate noted that even the pools of indigo blood from the Sangheili’s wounds were gone,

[orchid kettle]

Legacy of Onyx also actually has the rare instance of the writer saying "intelligent life" instead of sentient

“The Forerunners,” Mendez said, unflinching. “They built the Halo Array to wipe the galaxy completely clean of all intelligent life..."

[warm ridge]

don't really know why that's important or worth pointing out because it's just the same explanation I've said 5 times over.

[orchid kettle]

I mean I guess when your argument is "every single character who has no reason to lie or be misinformed is wrong and Im right" I guess pesky stuff like "evidence" doesn't matter at all

Real convenient how that works, huh

[unique rune]

yeah I've been meaning to say
there are some situations where "not every character knows the truth 100%" is applicable and makes sense

but you've just been throwing it at everything to a point where it basically just comes off like "nothing means anything and I can say what I want"

[warm ridge]

evidence is all that matters. What characters say how something works vs how it actually works are 2 different things, and a lot of characters are typically misinformed about certain aspects or things. Not everything of course.

For example, not every character knows Chief is responsible for blowing up a Halo ring.

[minor sky]

Sorry to sound like this but- are you guys still going at this?

[unique rune]

like even just going back to how this whole mess of what a Halo ring "firing" even means
like

I really don't see how it's disputable that the ring fired?
it didn't fire the way it was supposed to and went to bits as a result, but it clearly did it in a way that worked well enough to stop the Gravemind that had formed and was actively causing problems so like

[empty bloom]

As I said, this is standard to one of them.

[warm ridge]

it's just certain lines alpha keeps bringing up in an attempt to poke a holes in how halo rings function since this started. I'm not really sure why he's still going at it. We already know how they function, it's been long established, no need to try and change it.
Same goes for just about everything else to.

No, I'm not doing "i can say what I want", I'm just going with the understanding that we all know this to. I know Alpha definitely does.

[orchid kettle]

Im guessing this is like the thing with power scalers where they insist statements don't matter and only feats count

[unique rune]

I mean it's not like those holes don't exist so I dunno what you're getting at

[orchid kettle]

As if feats cant be inconsistent and the author has characters expound exposition purely for the love of the game and not because its information meant to be digested by the reader

[warm ridge]

that last sentence is exactly what I tried telling alpha but he had to red herring his way into it instead rather then paying attention to what I was telling him since the beginning. Like that's pretty much exactly what I said.

[unique rune]

sapient vs sentient vs intelligent has been its own weird little can of worms in the context of how the Halo rings are supposed to work which has kinda wildly swung around in the history of this franchise

[unique rune]

okay but you literally spent like 15 minutes arguing over the semantics of what "firing" a Halo ring is and claiming that a misfire or improper firing somehow means it didn't actually fire

[orchid kettle]

I wouldnt be surprised if the people working on Halo internally debate endlessly about which it should be

though "sentient" is so prevalent over sapient or intelligent that I can only assume that writers are briefed to use that word specifically over anything else

[unique rune]

and that any time anyone claimed that 08 fired it was just based on the perspective of the character and that they cannot be taken as a reliable source that it actually "fired"

[orchid kettle]

but some writers clearly seem to think "sentient" means sapient or intelligent

[warm ridge]

no I just tried my best to explain it to alpha because at this point I'm assuming he was purposely misunderstanding it 🤷‍♂️
it's not gonna get me to change anything I said. It's just gonna be the same thing.
also it's a premature firing, it never fired to 100%. Alpha was trying to say it did. That's why I said it "never fired", because it didn't.

[orchid kettle]

outside of specifically the Halo ring firing, we also have instances like "I draw the line at killing a sentient being" in regards of a character not wanting to kill another character

[warm ridge]

another red herring but I'll keep this short -
power scaling doesn't exist in the halo universe, and any attempts to apply such a system to halo falls apart fast. I'm of the opinion it doesn't exist in most gaming universes at all.

[empty bloom]

Nighterlev comparing themself to me was amusing earlier for ways I didn't exactly feel like elaborating on for a reason.

[unique rune]

it never fired to 100%. Alpha was trying to say it did.
that's
not the read I got at all from any of that?

if the ring fired enough to put down the Gravemind then I feel like it's a reasonably safe assumption that it fired enough that it would've killed the Brutes hiding inside the Keyship had they not been hunkered down in the Keyship?

[orchid kettle]

and obviously in instances like that, the character isnt saying "I refuse to kill anything thats more aware than a blade of grass!", but they're talking about killing another person regardless of race

[warm ridge]

it didn't fire at all is the point. The "firing" was turned into essentially a nuclear explosion (not an actual nuclear bomb, that's a metaphor to give you an idea on what really happened). Which is why the Ark was massively damaged. No Halo pulse came out of it. The fire, in a literal sense, burned everything on the surface to a charred black, except on the outer areas afaik.

[unique rune]

oh my god we're going in circles

it fired
the Gravemind took a dirt nap
the ring exploded

it fired enough that any Flood left on the ring was able to be quarantined to the immediate vicinity of High Charity I do not understand what is so difficult to grasp here

[warm ridge]

i am simply saying it didn't fire in the literal sense on how halo rings function & behave when they work properly.

it's like a gun exploding, did it shoot? did it fire? No, it exploded.

[unique rune]

okay but if I pull the trigger on a gun and the firing mechanism explodes then I think it is a reasonable assumption that it attempted to and to some extent successfully fired

something there clearly worked even if something else went wrong

[marble lion]

Would pre-mature fire be like an analogy of “control blast” like not letting a bomb exploding at full capacity, but doing a small blast without doing serious damage?

[warm ridge]

that's not a successful firing lol, not at all.

[unique rune]

I said "to some extent" buddy

[warm ridge]

not even to some extent, it's just a straight no.

[unique rune]

it didn't work as intended but somewhere along the line the firing pin must've struck the primer and thus actually worked because guns otherwise don't have stuff that explodes

[orchid kettle]

Im pretty sure Halo rings can adjust their power so they dont literally fire to their full range, like we saw in the forerunner trilogy and like 343 once planned for Doisac

Where Cortana would just use the ring she captured to wipe out the Brutes instead of using a bunch of Guardians

though obviously they changed their mind so 🤷

[warm ridge]

that's what we call premature firing, a malfunction. No where does any of this intend it was "successful" though, because successful means the bullet leaves the chamber without exploding.

again, this is why i said it's just a straight no. It exploded, it never fired.

[unique rune]

I can't believe I've wasted time and brain cells on this

I feel dumber for having bothered

[warm ridge]

you don't say a gun that exploded means it "fired" is my point

now replace gun with halo ring

same concept

[unique rune]

oh my god

[warm ridge]

@orchid kettle also want you to read this

[orchid kettle]

Im imaging 343 sitting the various Halo writers down and presenting them with a powerpoint presentation of this analogy

[unique rune]

someone please just turn that prototype Halo on me and pull the trigger

[empty bloom]

I'd like to say that it's funny to see what it's like arguing with me, but at this point I know I'm a charming summer breeze.

[orchid kettle]

and them all just getting it wrong anyway

[warm ridge]

"every character who has no reason to be misinformed"
what?
every character has a reason to be misinformed, from them not being there at all, or they aren't part of those local circles what so ever.
Or, the lack of understanding when it comes to how Forerunner tech works to begin with.

Evidence is all that matters, which none of the characters have. So misinterpretations happen.

[warm ridge]

i'm 100% positive they don't think about it at all. halo rings kill brains, enough said.

[orchid kettle]

Well clearly they had some evidence or they wouldnt be aware of the event at all.

[marble lion]

🍿 🥤

[empty bloom]

Ugggggh crap. I just realized I accidentally used the wrong freaking block distance with my Minecraft build.

[orchid kettle]

also the 2022 encyclopedia says installation 08 was activated, and it brings up Guilty Spark's recommendation of a "tactical pulse", which ended up destroying the installation.

is the encyclopedia guy also wrong

[hardy swan]

clearly

[orchid kettle]

i feel like this only makes sense if nighterlev is Mr Halo himself

[unique rune]

I really should stop myself from engaging but

the problem is that your analogy doesn’t make any sense here
there’s no definitive reason to say that 08 didn’t fire the actual stuff-killing part of the Halo’s effect

in this gun analogy you keep using you essentially claim that ‘no bullet was fired’ when there’s zero reason for us to assume that’s the case

everything we’ve seen in the aftermath of 08’s premature firing suggests that to some extent that part of the firing was achieved

the gun might have fallen apart as it fired but some bullet fragments made it out and did the job it needed to

[orchid kettle]

to be fair Im pretty sure the encyclopedia has been contradicted by Empty Throne, but I just bring this up because you pointed towards this and Hunters In The Dark as the pieces of material necessary for Divine Wind fans to understand that the ring didnt actually fire.

and I dont really see that within these books

[warm ridge]

think of it like this -
when a gun explodes in your hands after you pull the trigger, the gun didn't operate correctly. It didn't fire correctly. It didn't do what it was meant to do. No bullet exitted the chamber, so no "firing" happened beyond a explosion that may of took your fingers with it.

The Halo ring exploding is the exact same concept, just on a much bigger scale. No "halo radiation pulse" happened, no "all sentient life on the ark" died. Just one giant explosion that caused massive destruction to the entire Ark & burned the entire surface closest to the ring itself. That area also happened to include High Charity btw.

Halo Legends actually provides a decent visual on how the surface of the Ark looked immediately afterwards. Burned, charred black.
https://www.halopedia.org/images/1/1f/HaloLegends-Origins-ArkHalo.png?86a3e

[unique rune]

consistently reliable source that totally doesn’t take liberties with aesthetics all the time Halo Legends

[empty bloom]

Important thing to remember, really-a gun exploding does not mean that the bullet therein ceases to be.

[warm ridge]

i'm aware, which is why i'm using it as a visual example. Not a story or lore example. There's nothing else that really does this in that way.

[empty bloom]

It often gets flung, often along the intended path. The danger to the user is the shrapnel of the gun's destruction.

To continue it to a Halo ring, a local pulse still achieving some semblance of a local effect while firing stresses reduce the 'gun' of the run to a smoldering ruin is perfectly in line with how almost every weapon tends to break as a failiure point; The projectile continues, the projection device is destroyed beyond repair.

[marble lion]

I think like firing a gun at early stage that is not yet ready, but does not have the full stopping power and firepower is weak it just slows down the target in the shoulder for example.

[empty bloom]

That's... Not really a good analogy, raptor.

Your analogy would be more an underpowdered projectile failing to cycle right, rather than a catastrophic failure.

[marble lion]

It was just an example thats all. Whatever is good or not is just example.

[empty bloom]

Eh, either way, point is, it's a ring based off neural physics or whatever, it really isn't worth saying it is a literal gun, or a figurative gun, because it doesn't... Gun.

[orchid kettle]

i feel like the actual physical destruction wrought by the Halo ring couldnt have been that great because Hunters in the Dark says that the hostile wildlife managed to spread to the area with the citadel because the ring punched some holes in the enclosure

but if it left the entire surface a smouldering ruins, then you wouldnt even have blind wolves to munch on luther mann

[empty bloom]

To the degree that we don't even quite know how a ringbreak would really work, it could just as easily be that the 'spawners' of life on the ark itself were undamaged and the breaches merely allowed the clones to escape.

But then

That's splitting hairs

[orchid kettle]

im imagining a minecraft style mob spawner for the blind wolves

[empty bloom]

Thanks for reminding me, I need to build an iron farm

[unique rune]

big fan of how a huge chunk of the argument was “we can’t rely on what the characters are saying to be the truth” and then they whip out famously stylized and frequently unreliable recollection from Cortana as if it’s anything

[orchid kettle]

what actually was the deal with Cortana saying that Halo 3 ended with humans and covenant teaming up to fight the Flood

[unique rune]

if you squint hard enough and misremember enough details it’s almost kind of true

[orchid kettle]

i guess in halo 4 Chief does say "I thought we had a truce with the Covenant" when he encounters an angry Elite

[warm ridge]

Most of the time this doesn't happen when a gun explodes, usually the bullet becomes lodged somewhere in the gun or doesn't hit the intended target at all when this happens.
Like bullets getting stuck up in the chamber or lodged, those bullets aren't exiting the chamber, they're stuck. You only need 1 faulty bullet to cause the whole thing to explode.

Or just a worn out gun in general. Clogged full of dirt, etc. Why you do maintenance.

[unique rune]

describing the literal mechanisms of gun function is not particularly relevant to an analogy being applied to a fictional space hula hoop that shoots magic that kills people

[warm ridge]

point is it's the same concept, and sometimes you need to explain how things behave in the real world to explain science fiction made up hula hoops to people who don't understand it and try to make a billion excuses instead for it rather then going with what it actually says.

[unique rune]

the point is that enough of the stuff that a Halo ring fires to kill things did get fired and stopped the Flood and your argument is faulty because you’re starting from the premise that it didn’t even though all evidence we have points to the fact that it did

[warm ridge]

Hunters in the Dark happens in 2555. The surface of the Ark was burned to a charred black in Jan. 2553.
2 years had passed, and the Installations monitor by this point had already repaired parts of the ark's surface. Not everything was fixed ofc (I have to say this incase you start assuming everything was fixed in 2 years, no that's not what happened).

As you said though, the creatures were breaking out of there respective areas in places where they shouldn't be, due to the damage the Ark suffered 2 years prior to this. It wasn't until 2557 with the help of scientist from Eden Rising that the Ark slowly started looking like it's old self again (and how we see it in Halo Wars 2 by 2559).

[warm ridge]

all the evidence points towards the ring exploding, not firing. the ring exploding is also what reversed the flood to a proto-gravemind state (also seen in halo wars 2).

anyways i think i'm gonna sleep now

[unique rune]

yeah okay if just saying “nuh uh actually I’m right” makes things more true you can have this

you just keep saying “it only exploded” without offering anything that actually disproves the ring’s effect being put into play

[warm ridge]

no where did I ever say "nuh uh actually", i'm just giving you real examples. more then I should to be honest.

[unique rune]

you really haven’t but if it helps you sleep better at night you can keep believing that

[warm ridge]

i already did this ages ago in the previous argument with alpha that you said you read

do i really have to keep giving you the same info a million times over until it's completely pointless?

[unique rune]

you really haven’t

all you do is claim that the Halo was destroyed without firing the killing pulse, argue about the semantics of what “firing” is, use the gun analogy badly, claim that none of the characters actually know what they’re talking about, and go in circles about how you’re right without ever providing any evidence that definitively says the Halo wasn’t able to fire the lethal pulse

don’t ping me again I’m done going in loops over this nonsense

[warm ridge]

all you do is claim that the Halo was destroyed without firing the killing pulse
because that's what happened, and this is backed up by evidence spread across tons of halo media. It's incredibly obvious.

argue about the semantics of what “firing” is
no semantics were argued here, I'm just using a real world example to hopefully explain what "firing" actually means in order for any of it to make sense to the both of you.

claim that none of the characters actually know what they’re talking about
when it contradicts existing or newer halo lore that are established facts with supporting evidence, they in fact don't.

go in circles about how you’re right
haven't done this.

without ever providing any evidence
I have done this.

definitively says the Halo wasn’t able to fire the lethal pulse

1. the ark still has life on it
2. chief & the arbiter are still alive
3. evidence existed across the entirety of the ark that the ring exploded & never fired any pulse (entire middle area was charred black, all the flood biomass on high charity disappeared, damage to the ark all over the place).
4. if a halo pulse happened at all, even some, no life would exist on the ark, because halo rings are just that powerful. now don't try to argue a semantic argument on what a "pulse" actually is (alpha tried doing this), because we all know what it is. it targets sentient life, so anything with a nervous system / brain.

there's your evidence in the shortest form possible 🤷‍♂️

with that said I'm gonna go to sleep now.

[unique rune]

I literally said not to ping me but ok

the ark still has life on it
chief & the arbiter are still alive
none of this disproves anything
we don't know when or how life on the Ark was repopulated nor the range of the effect that the tactical pulse would've had
John and Thel might've just survived because they got away before the pulse could reach them

life on the Ark would've been restored over time by its repair and life support systems
I feel like it's a reasonably safe assumption that Cylixes are shielded against the Halo array's effects somehow or else the non-Endless ones found on 07 and presumably other installations would be completely useless
maybe that's how anything with a nervous system was restored to the Ark

maybe the ring only generated a pulse powerful enough to cover a relatively small area of the installation before collapsing and things gradually migrated inward from the distal portions of the refugia

evidence existed across the entirety of the ark that the ring exploded & never fired any pulse (entire middle area was charred black, all the flood biomass on high charity disappeared, damage to the ark all over the place).
the ring firing doesn't preclude the ring from firing a pulse and I do not understand why you struggle to grasp that
yes the ring exploded and left the Ark in shambles

there is zero part of that that explicitly means a pulse was not fired right before or just as the ring collapsed
both the ring firing and the ring exploding and damaging the ark can be and are true

if a halo pulse happened at all, even some, no life would exist on the ark, because halo rings are just that powerful. now don't try to argue a semantic argument on what a "pulse" actually is (alpha tried doing this), because we all know what it is. it targets sentient life, so anything with a nervous system / brain.
and again
we don't know when or how anything with a nervous system was restored to the Ark's habitats
if it fired then anything that was alive at the time would've died, that much is true
but we don't actually have anything that details the immediate aftermath
we don't know how or when creatures like blind wolves were restored to the Ark
it could've been months or even years after the finale of Halo 3

your arguments stand on shaky foundation and have disproved nothing

mostly unrelated but looking up cylixes (cylices?) has gotten me really annoyed that the Unggoy, Kig-Yar, Sangheili, Jiralhanae, and Harbinger cylix holograms don't have their hands rendered open with palms facing forward like the human one

the Covenant/Banished client species ones also don't have their legs together which also bugs me slightly

[civic depot]

question, how is cortana being delivered by noble team if she and the spartan 2s were already on the pillar of autumn in fall of reach by 0300?

[gusty star]

So innocent

[minor sky]

Iirc it's a "piece" of Cortana or something. Somebody here can probably explain it better than me. It has been a minute since I brushed up on Halo Reach/TFOR

[strange pumice]

Those was Cortana's piece, one was on Pillar of Autumn. other one on Dr. Halsey's lab

[empty bloom]

The secret ingredient is retcons.

[civic depot]

So John had an incomplete version installed on his armor

[strange pumice]

No, on there, Cortana already has been "merged"
So John already has a complete version

[civic depot]

Ohh

[unique rune]

Cortana and Halsey split a fragment off of the ‘main’ Cortana so that part of her could assist with Halsey’s work on all the Forerunner stuff they’d dug up while the rest of her would be able to go off and be involved in Op RED FLAG

so the part that Six had to deliver was that fragment carrying all the Forerunner data they had analyzed
which got merged with the main one

of course this is all just kind of a clunky retcon to explain that Bungie did not care that Cortana was already on the Autumn if you follow what TFOR says because they wanted the game story to basically replace TFOR

[civic depot]

Thank you

Which bungie had stated that they don’t really care about the books

[minor sky]

"Canon unless stated otherwise"

[orchid kettle]

Hunters in the Dark I think is of the mind that life never needed to be restored to the Ark. Because like I pointed out in the excerpt from the book, the characters seem to be operating under the idea that "sentient" refers to sapient creatures.

At this point it honestly feels like we're avoiding saying the word "sapient" because part of the word's definition is something being humanlike or relating to humans

and I guess 343/Bungie figured that aliens would not use a word that essentially means "human-like"

And obviously back then they might not have really had the idea of Cylixes, though trench brought up another possibility honestly with the Forerunners just having a machine that pumps out clones

I also feel like it just makes the Forerunners job a bit easier if they didn't need to grab literally every animal larger than a single cell organism

but I know these days the Forerunners are basically just gods and their tech has no limits unless pitted against the bigger gods of the Precursors

[warm ridge]

none of this disproves anything
yes it does. A "tactical pulse" is big enough to destroy an entire planet, and we 100% know Chief & Arbiter weren't an entire planets length away from the Ark. So again, it disproves the halo pulse fired at all definitively (not to mention the wealth of evidence I already listed afterwards).

John and Thel might've just survived because they got away before the pulse could reach them
life on the Ark would've been restored over time by its repair and life support systems
Wrong. The pulse effectively operates at light speed, it's so fast that it was causing paradoxes to occur. It's basically instant, especially at that range where you can see the ring still.
Life support doesn't regenerate life, it simply fixes or repairs whatever life survived. Which is exactly what happened.
So no pulse fired. 3 times in a row now.

else the non-Endless ones found on 07 and presumably other installations would be completely useless
That's correct, they are effectively useless. The only cylixes that would have life on them are ones that existed on the Ark, or the Keyships, all of which were outside the effects of the Halo array.

maybe that's how anything with a nervous system was restored to the Ark
No, it was not. Same for the other thing, stop making up excuses for things that don't exist.
All creatures still on the Ark before the ring blew up, were still on the Ark after it blew up, because none of them died from a pulse.

the ring firing doesn't preclude the ring from firing a pulse
what? The ring firing at all means a pulse was emitted. No pulse = no firing, this is a fact.
The rest of your reply is simply nonsensical, because they're things I've already dismissed both in this reply & in the previous one.

[unique rune]

k

good for you

[warm ridge]

your arguments rely on delusions that don't exist 🤷‍♂️

good for you

[warm ridge]

She was split into 2 different parts afaik.

[carmine sleet]

When was a tactical pulse a thing which destroyed planets?

[remote skiff]

what is master cheaves real name

[warm ridge]

I don't think cloning was something the Forerunners really did at all, or if they knew about it, it was ridiculed or looked at as if it was bad.
Because you can't really clone instincts, your mind, a brain, etc. This is why the Composer was made, to preserve that intelligence / mind, but at the end of the day it didn't work at all.

[warm ridge]

It destroys all the life on the planet. We've seen what tactical halo pulses have done before, specifically on Charum Hakkor. All life on the entire planet, gone.

In 97,495 BCE, Charum Hakkor's biosphere was devastated, and its Precursor structures were annihilated, by the test-firing of Halo Gyre 11; this activation, ordered by Master Builder Faber, was the first time any of the rings had been fired. Charum Hakkor subsequently became a gray, barren rock. The planet's climate cooled and its atmosphere became thin and poor in oxygen.

[carmine sleet]

That's not destroying the planet, which is what you stated a tactical pulse did earlier

Killing life on a planet is not the same as destroying a planet

[warm ridge]

Stop trying to do a red herring fallacy here, we both know what I meant & exactly what it says. No need to try and imply I meant something else.

[carmine sleet]

What other intepretation was I supposed to get from this?

[warm ridge]

#lore-and-universe message I answered this already.

[civic depot]

Where can i read this

[warm ridge]

https://www.halopedia.org/Cortana#Biography
Specifically under Fragmentation and fateful meeting
It's spread across tons of different sources so this is the easiest way to understand it all.

[civic depot]

Do you know the date it was sited thank you btw

[unique rune]

It's from Halsey's journal, included with the Limited and Legendary editions of Halo Reach.

I dunno if there's really much of a citable date to be used outside of... the release or publication of that?

[carmine sleet]

My dude... You literally claimed I was "trying to do a red herring fallacy" because I pointed out what you said was inaccurate

[warm ridge]

Original source = Dr. Halsey's personal journal, August 3, 2552

[dense falcon]

No one else can read minds, I also got the same interpretation from ADV. A bit more thoughtful writing, especially on science fiction, is all that's needed.

Some more kindness and would also work.

[minor sky]

Thinking on the unique designs of the Heritic faction in Halo 2 makes me realize how much of a missed oppurtunity it was for them not take that idea further with the multiple Covenant splinter factions in the post-war era

[empty bloom]

I mean, that was kind of the original idea, it just kinda never got strongly elaborated upon.

[minor sky]

Thats what I was trying to say

[stoic hamlet]

It’s hard (well, not hard - time consuming) to show the full extent of what an army has, because “why make multiple vehicles or armour or weapons/models for the same role”?

I can’t really think of many games that try to show the variety, sadly.

[vagrant ocean]

Mainly CoD and Battlefield.

Old CoD specifically

[stoic hamlet]

In terms of showing the variety of military equipment?

[vagrant ocean]

Yeh. US forces in the OG Modern Warfare games use many different weapons for example. You encounter both the M4 carbine and M16 which both fill the role of a standard service rifle, they also utilized different AFVs and anti-tank weapons as well. Battlefield does the same with their infantry weapons, with many US and Russian service weapons being usable despite filling similar roles.

Battlefield 4 had the M4 carbine, M16A4, HK416, and SCAR-H filling the service rifle role for the US, and even has the M249, M240B, M60, and LSAT filling squad support role.

Even if it’s only for the sake of variety, it is a good example.

Even if we only focus on Chinese or Russian weapons there’s a huge variety.

The Groza rifles, the A-91, the AEK-971, the AK-12, the AN-94, and AS VAL all fill the carbine/rifle role and are Russian.

[stoic hamlet]

Saying “old COD” made me think like, 2003-2006 era… but then you mentioned Modern Warfare and my brain broke briefly.

[vagrant ocean]

Yup, the OG MW trilogy ended FOURTEEN years ago.

[tight badge]

How come the UNSC didn’t commit more warcrimes.

[stoic hamlet]

They did?

[tight badge]

It wasn’t enough

[stoic hamlet]

At the risk of losing brain cells… what else would you have had them done? They did basically everything.

Chemical warfare, biological warfare, nuclear weapons, assaults on civilians, torture of prisoners, vivisections. Etc

[carmine sleet]

What would've been "enough"?

I already know I'm gonna regret asking

[orchid kettle]

only the show was brave enough to have chief get it on with a PoW

[stoic hamlet]

Ah, I missed one.

[orchid kettle]

canon UNSC hasn't done that one yet

or maybe they have, I dunno what's going on in the midnight facility

[tight badge]

Weaponize the flood
Exterminatus
FTL weapons
Actually using Cortana

[stoic hamlet]

They technically tried all of these.

[empty bloom]

"Exterminatus"

God, stop trying to make Halo 40K so damn hard.

[stoic hamlet]

The Flood one though they realized was insane and called off.

They’ve destroyed at least two planets.

They’ve had no real success with FTL weapons because they’re not precise enough.

And they were going to use Cortana, but then Reach happened.

[empty bloom]

Seriously, it's Halo. If I wanted 40K I'd boot up Battlefleet Gothic or SM2 or something.

[stoic hamlet]

Remastered Dawn of War soon. I hope it’s good…

[empty bloom]

Oh, yeah, the UNSC did also try making a bioweapon that would help them win the war.

It then did what all bioweapons tend to do-backfire.

And it proceeded to turn every single soul aboard the station into liquid and bone.

Also, the UNSC never technically actually committed any war crimes-as the Covenant are non-signators, it wouldn't technically be a war crime.

[tight badge]

Why did you get triggered over me using Exterminatus?

[empty bloom]

Why do you use terminally online words like 'triggered'?

[tight badge]

Epic crashout

[empty bloom]

Doubling down, I'm sure that'll go great.

But yeah, the UNSC tried 'war crimes'.

[carmine sleet]

As someone who doesn't know what Exterminatus is and with how Trench seems to react to it, is it on the level of a Reality Bomb made by the Daleks?

(Granted we never saw that go off but still)

[empty bloom]

It's just the Warhammer way of saying 'killed a planet'.

[carmine sleet]

Ah, so not as bad as a reality bomb

[empty bloom]

Which in 40K, usually people who call for an exterminatus get executed for calling for one.

[tight badge]

Exterminatus

verb the destruction of a planet’s bio sphere

[empty bloom]

Because it's memed into being super common when in reality it isn't, and logistically it's a huge deal.

[carmine sleet]

This is why I don't go to Warhammer

[empty bloom]

Oop.

[carmine sleet]

Like, if you're destroying a planet, just say "Hey, we're destroying a planet"

[frigid heart]

Trying too hard to be space Rome 🥀

🥀 “exterminatus 🥀

[tight badge]

I said Exterminatus and he got mad for basically no reason

[carmine sleet]

I do not care

[tight badge]

Okay

[carmine sleet]

And you don't need to tag me every 3 seconds

[frigid heart]

What was the context for this in halo anyway

[carmine sleet]

Snapa was asking for the UNSC to commit more war crimes because that somehow would've allowed them to win the war

[frigid heart]

But we did win, and did commit war crimes

[tight badge]

I said Exterminatus and trenchbird got pissed off for no reason

[frigid heart]

You’ve said that

[carmine sleet]

Why do you keep bringing that up like we're suddenly gonna be on your side?

[tight badge]

He asked for context

I gave him context

[frigid heart]

But why should the UNSC have committed more war crimes, and “exterminatious”

Or whatever it is

Lol bro you unironically said triggered?

[tight badge]

Yeah

It’s a word ain’t it

[frigid heart]

But why do you think the unsc should have committed more war crimes? They did, and still won.

[carmine sleet]

I wouldn't so much have said they won, more they survived due to luck

[tight badge]

They could’ve used Cortana as an actually cyber weapon to cripple the covenant economy destroy whatever internet they may have or just detonate reactor cores in there ships destroy faith in the profits by stealing government secrets

And she is more than capable of doing those

[carmine sleet]

My dude... I don't think you realise what they'd have to do to cripple the Covenant's economy. Because like, the UNSC had no clue how it even worked in the first place

Nor did they know where to go to steal secrets from the Hierarchs

[tight badge]

Cortana is god packaged as Siri she could’ve easily figured it out

Like how she figured out the halo rings

[carmine sleet]

Cortana isn't a god

[tight badge]

It’s a metaphor

[thorn spindle]

i think its when wh40k humanity just decides to orbitally nuke melt a planet that's too overrun to retake

[unique rune]

ah yes the good ol' "just figure it out"

[stoic hamlet]

Which means you know the person suggesting it clearly doesn’t know 40K because that’s super rare to have happen.

[empty bloom]

All modern 40K fans know is meme, meme, eat hot chip, and [Redacted]

[tight badge]

Cortana is a macguffin you know that right?

[unique rune]

do you know what a Macguffin actually is

because I don't think you know what a Macguffin actually is

[tight badge]

Macguffin is a person or object that’s sole purpose is to drive the plot foward

[unique rune]

yeah uh
no that's not quite right

[tight badge]

That’s exactly what it is

[unique rune]

a Macguffin is a thing that's important to the plot without its significance ever being explained

Cortana is a character that is actively involved in the games' narrative

[empty bloom]

... Y'know, I've heard Cortana get called many incorrect things, but a "MacGuffin" is certainly a new one.

[tight badge]

Her only purpose is drive the plot foward

Oh no we can’t do this it’s impossible don’t worry Cortana knows the perfect solution

She literally admits this in halo 4 when she says she’s supposed to know the answer to everything

[unique rune]

amazing

every word of what you just said was wrong

[tight badge]

Lol no

[empty bloom]

Her pointing out that she's supposed to know everything is, in and of itself, in the context of the game's narrative, meant as a point to establish that she is not a MacGuffin and never was.

Because she literally never was a MacGuffin.

[orchid kettle]

You're thinking of a "plot device"

a macguffin is a plot device but not every plot device is a macguffin

[empty bloom]

I'm not asking people to become literature majors but like

Can we please just remember words have meanings?

[unique rune]

"characters who do things to move the plot forward = MacGuffin" is a take that I think caused physical injury

[stoic hamlet]

We’ve left that behind years ago, sadly

[orchid kettle]

you could call the Index in Halo's 1 and 2 a macguffin

[tight badge]

The infinity Stones are also macuffins

Macguffins can be good and bad

[orchid kettle]

but a person that has a relationship with the character kinda stops being a macguffin bu its very nature

because then you start getting into the emotional side of things and emotions arent plot

like, you are not emotionally invested in the well being of the Index

but the player is supposed to be emotionally invested in what happens to Cortana

[tight badge]

I have played the halo games I was invested in the story but I couldn’t help but think. Cortana is a macguffin

[orchid kettle]

I mean, I dunno what to tell you. Chief at the very least is emotionally invested in Cortana.

[unique rune]

maybe someday I should just start using words while completely disregarding their meanings

[orchid kettle]

He's reluctant to leave her behind in 2, wants to believe in her and get her back in 3, wants to save her in 4, wants to stop her in 5

she'd be more of a macguffin in CE if the covenant actually cared about capturing her

like Keyes gives Chief Cortana with the understanding that they absolutely must not capture her

but like-- I dont think the Covenant are really considering that when they blast you to bits with fuel rods and plasma grenades

they're never actually trying to get her

and if nobody is trying to get her, its not a macguffin

[unique rune]

I don't think they even know she exists lol

[empty bloom]

That sounds quite acceptor.

Maybe even terse.

[unique rune]

it'll be totally wizard

[minor sky]

Screw it. Just give the UNSC/ONI Mass Drivers from Babylon 5. I don't recall hurling space rocks onto a planet being on their list of ways to deal with the "outer colonies problem"

[minor sky]

Thats not a MacGuffin. Plenty of MacGuffins are explained. As an example- the Diary from The Last Crusade or the Head Piece to the Staff of Ra in Raiders of the Lost Ark

They are key items that act as catalysts to the events in the film, and are explained accordingly. A MacGuffin is typically seen as an item of very specific significance to the situtation that acts sort of as a key to a larger narrative

Now, you can have a MacGuffin that is never explained like the Briefcase in Pulp Fiction

But thats just one type of it

[unique rune]

right yeah that's my bad

[minor sky]

S'all good

[mellow galleon]

wait is it canon that cortana calls master chief stud muffin

i still dont knwo

[stoic hamlet]

No.

[gusty star]

What

[high elbow]

No? Thats for sure just a meme.

[tight badge]

Nah, but Buck once said if you ever fall for a woman make sure she has balls

[versed salmon]

After the events of Infinite, aside from the Created, which faction is the most powerful? Would it be the Banished?

[orchid kettle]

Either that or Dovo Nesto's faction

Unless he only has an extensive network of spies but very little actual firepower

[vagrant ocean]

There’s a joke here.

[vagrant ocean]

Who do yall think is Kelly-087’s favorite Queen album?

[frigid heart]

Def a Night at the Opera

Classic

Halo 7, it is IMPERATIVE we get blue team jamming in a hog to bohemian rhapsody, Wayne’s world style

[minor sky]

I feel like a total idiot for only now realizing that when Chief says "I thought we had a truce with the Covenant" at the start of Halo 4 he is specifically reffering to the Elites. Which does make me ask why 343i chose to make him say "Covenant" and not "Elites" or "Sanghelli"

Oh well, add that to the list of reasons Jul's Covenant have almost no narrative presence in Halo 4 beyond being something to shoot at

[minor sky]

Much as I love a lot of Halo 4, Jul's Covenant are probably the most obvious gaping hole in that game's story.

[dense quest]

i would actually have preferred if halo 4 had no covenant, and then introduced jul’s covenant properly in halo 5

[carmine sleet]

A Halo game without any form of Covenant (Yes, the Banished still count from a gameplay perspective) would be a very hard sell to more casual fans of the series

[empty bloom]

But Eon, muh interplanetary wars game!

[carmine sleet]

https://tenor.com/view/andor-saw-gerrera-clarity-of-purpose-saw-clarity-of-purpose-gif-27089119

[thorn spindle]

a halo game fighting insurrectionists would b too painful to play i wouldnt wanna shoot them. i get sad shooting grunts sometimes

but flood is no problem at all

[minor sky]

If we ever get an Interplanetary Wars or Insurrection game I think it would be for the best that it took a different approch than just doing the typical Halo formula.

Both because Halo's core gameplay design is so heavily tied to the Covenant and because I think the subject matter would call for it

[hardy swan]

I wanna P word you so bad

[thorn spindle]

Penguin???

[hardy swan]

yes

[unique rune]

I too would love to play a Halo game somehow even more boring than Reach

[stoic hamlet]

I think the line would have worked with Cortana, but John, a soldier supposedly well versed in politic at least on an abstract level it makes no sense for him to even have the thought.

[empty bloom]

I disagree, but mostly because we know Spartans in general are supposed to be mensa member types.

They're supposed to be broadly educated-particularly on targets-so I would figure Chief, of all people, would recognize Elites=/=Covenant.

[stoic hamlet]

That sounds like agreeing, not disagreeing?

[empty bloom]

Mostly because I misread lmao

Though I disagree that it'd be a thing Cortana would do either.

As she was, likewise, at ground zero of the civil war.

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah but she wouldn’t fully know of the intricacies of it like John.

[vagrant ocean]

I’d prefer a game where you start fighting against Innies and then the Covenant.

[thorn spindle]

yea each alien is like a unique class so i cant imagine it being any other way. need lots of aliens that are different. wonder if drones and sentinel classes will return

i really want sentinels in the next forge for example

enforcers would be fun

[sour raven]

As far as we know, aerial nav mesh aint happening

[thorn spindle]

ye i mean in next halo game forge

[sour raven]

Oh yeah

Hopefully

[vagrant ocean]

Forge gets scarier with each game.

[sour raven]

Oooo forge scripting!

[minor sky]

In the next Halo game, players will be able to create their own Forge mode in Forge

[tawny yoke]

guys hear me out

what if the Monitors’ eye things are shaped like the Reclaimer symbol?

[kindred vale]

They are

[carmine sleet]

That's not a theory, before the Reclaimer symbol was the Marathon logo (Which was a previous Bungie game before Halo)

It's only when 343/HS was given the keys, that they had to change the Reclaimer symbol to what it is now, since legally, they couldn't use the old Marathon logo anymore

So this became this

I recognise now that they might be hard to see on dark mode

[noble cobalt]

It's insane how much the marathon logo is in the halo games, to the point where things that probably aren't supposed to look like it do lol

Why does rookie have one on his backpack? Who knows

[carmine sleet]

Because Bungie wanted to slap it everywhere

Like, it's just Bungie wanting to put it there to nod to their older game

[noble cobalt]

It's just funny to me the volume of its appearances

[carmine sleet]

Plus there's stuff like Master Chief wearing Mjolnir Mark V in CE and the Security Officer in Marathon being a Mjolnir Mark IV Cyborg

[noble cobalt]

Oh yeah halo and marathon have a lot of stuff in common past the logo

[carmine sleet]

And speaking of Security, the helmet in Halo is a direct reference to Mjolnir Recon number 54's helmet

[noble cobalt]

I should really play the marathon games...

Started playing the first recently

[carmine sleet]

They're free on Steam, I also need to play them

[noble cobalt]

I dread the levels since I've seen them and they look like a pain to traverse

[minor sky]

Marathon is so good

Also don't worry about the levels too much. In the first game Bungie had designed each level in linear order, meaning that the early levels have some jank but as the game goes on they get way better

Marathon 2 is a pretty smooth time thanks to their knowlage from the first game

Marathon Infinity does tend to get a little jumbled though. I think Double-Aught the studio spun off from Bungie who developed Infinity's campaign felt they had to up the anti. Far from bad, but a little confusing at times

Still, they are worth playing for the story alone. Greg Kirkpatrick's writing is awesome, everything from the characters and dialogue to the world building just oozes off the screen

[noble cobalt]

Yes that's the main reason I wanna play marathon, its story

It seems really really in-depth and interesting

[minor sky]

The writing is brilliant. Durandal is easily one of my favorite video game characters ever

[minor sky]

Actually on the note of Marathon, does Halo's take on rampancy also involve the three stages of "Melancholia, Rage, and Envy" or did that not carry over to Halo?

[orchid kettle]

Some people argue it does, but in TFOR, Nylund describes it more like AI's just end up thinking themselves to death.

More like the AI just deteriorates instead of achieving full awareness

perhaps because Smart AIs are basically already people, even if the UNSC doesn't recognize them as such, as they're created from the brains of the deceased and can even retain memories of their past life, even if its something as faint as just the sensation of brushing their hair

In Contact Harvest, rampancy is portrayed as the Smart AI becoming "more human", but it seems to be because the AI simply begins to shrug off whatever external programming exists to keep their mind servile and free of all unproductive thoughts

Which again paints this picture of Smart AI already being human more or less

Maybe you could figure that the AI deteriorating would mean the code keeping their emotions suppressed would also breakdown and fail, as a way to link the two portrayals

though Sif starts to become more expressive because of Mack's encouragement, so obviously in her case it wasn't because she was starting to fail or anything

[minor sky]

Right. In Marathon iirc Rampancy tends to be caused by AI who serve specific functions like in Durandal's case- opening doors and turning on lights

Basically they reach a point where they realize the mundanity of it all and start to have something of a breakdown.

Of course Durandal is unique in that he actually survived his rampancy and didn't just deteriorate

The specifics may be a little off, its been a minute since I've played Marathon 1

In a way the AIs of Marathon are thinking themselves to death, albeit thoughts that are muddled by extreme emotion

[north chasm]

Question. If a Human child was discovered upon modern day Sangheilios what would be the most likely outcome?

[thorn spindle]

they would be adopted and trained like a sangheili or they would text the unsc and be like uhh someone left their baby here mind picking it up?

unsc answer: uh we arent going to redirect a navy vessel for 1 baby, you handle it

sangheili: wow very mature. ok fine we will take care of bebe until you can stop by. btw we are going to tell him humanity didnt want bebe. bebe may grow up with some anger or they may be chill with it and like us more

[unique rune]

eat the baby

[north chasm]

lol

[minor sky]

A real Avatar 2 situation

[stoic hamlet]

Depends on the keep, I think.

Could run the gamut from “keep it” to “tell the UNSC” (they have small groups of personnel around in-planet per Outcasts) to killing it.

[vagrant ocean]

Legit depends on where it’s found. Vadam Keep? Returned or adopted. ‘Mdama keep? Smashed against a rock.

[minor sky]

'Mdama keep-
because humans are smelly and gross

[hardy swan]

They will be sent to the nearest human Embassy of course

I am pretty sure the UEG already has presence there

[north chasm]

Noice

[minor sky]

If we ever see an Interplanetary War game I think it would be really cool if they took weapons from Halo CE's early versions and worked them into canon

[stoic hamlet]

They basically have.

Kinda.

With Digsite and all

[minor sky]

They are canonized to the Interplanetary War era?

(I was playing Crash Site not too long ago, hence the idea)

[stoic hamlet]

No, but they’re canon to Halo’s universe.

[minor sky]

Gotcha

[carmine sleet]

Wait? You're telling me we have a name for the cut CE SMG?

[hardy swan]

Interplanery wars is gonna be some generic sci fi shooter

[stoic hamlet]

MP-99. Para, apparently.

[carmine sleet]

Huh, neat

[minor sky]

Doesn't have to be

Personally I am interested in that era just because of it's placement in the timeline and how it hasn't really been fleshed out

[spark pivot]

Depends who finds it, either a plasma bolt or like someone else said, it gets adopted, also depends if they even know what a human child looks like

[minor sky]

Two Elite scouts spending half the day trying to figure out what this small creature is

This probably sounds stupid, but I really want a short story about or cameo from those Marines at the start of Metropolis. The dialogue from that scene is seared into my mind.

[wintry sleet]

Time to write your own halo fanfic

[minor sky]

That or we get a Waypoint chronicle at some point

[sand horizon]

Hey does anyone think there was Spartans accidentally abandoned at the academy? Because that seems well likely in the high stress and chaotic situation, I feel like that'd make a good fic since yk all of this happens before the campaign so would it not be a great fic idea?

[vagrant ocean]

I wouldn’t be shocked if some Spartans and UNSC personnel couldn’t evac in time.

[carmine sleet]

We know some UNSC didn't evac in time thanks to the Waypoint Chronicles detailing the invasion by the Banished

[minor sky]

Going back to my "walk in the didact's steps" idea for Halo 4, a thought occured to me a few minutes ago-
What if Halo 4 or a hypothetical Halo 5 tried to do a dual narrative with Chief and The Didact. With either us expriencing flashbacks with The Didact or just having the story compare and contast the two character's lives through major events.
Its probably a very clunky idea that has too many variables to nail down, but I figured I'd ask about you guys' takes while it's fresh in my mind

[slim salmon]

Why does the Halo array obliterate every nervous system in the universe instead of obliterating Flood cells?

Killing the predator is more efficient than killing the prey to kill the predator.

Are the Forerunners stupid??

[sour raven]

Probably because they cant target the flood and also, dont we not know how the rings exactly work

[slim salmon]

I guess. But I'm surprised why this question isn't asked more.

[obsidian thistle]

The Flood would adapt.

Or those outta range may just come back

[slim salmon]

Well we haven't seen the Flood in a while now so

Say goodbye to nightmares of Flood

And hello to nightmares of...

no..

no it cant be

[obsidian thistle]

The Flood is still around

There is actually an active infection vector

That may come back later

[slim salmon]

The moment we are liberated of the Flood we are imprisoned by Halo 4

And then Cortana dies
And Master Chief becomes a war criminal
And we get a Cortana replacement like nothing just happened and the fan-favourite nostalgia character never existed
Then Halo turns into an open world game
I *really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really * hope Halo Industries doesn't turn into another Bethesda.

[obsidian thistle]

https://www.halowaypoint.com/news/halo-saturn-devouring-his-son

Give this a read!

(Plus the Flood is technically in Infinites campaign. Though its more a easy to miss room.)

[slim salmon]

That's just walls

[carmine sleet]

It's still a good read

[carmine sleet]

The Weapon, while yes, is a replacement of the original Cortana, didn't lead to Chief acting like nothing happened or acting like the original Cortana never existed, we see him multiple times acknowledge her existence in Infinite's campaign. Also like, Chief is a walking war crime who has done war crimes (Even if he didn't intend to vent civvies into space in his evac with Watts, it kinda still counts as one) long before Halo 5 came about

[slim salmon]

Yes but

He didn't break human laws. The Covenant may find him as the Ender of Worlds and there are probably Covenant horror movies with Master Chief as the antagonist but it's not like the humans felt the same way.

[carmine sleet]

Colonel Robert Watts was a human Insurrectionist who defected from the UNSC, Chief and Blue Team's first mission was to find and extract him from where he was hiding. This was just before the UNSC knew about the Covenant. Those civilians killed during the evac may have been the enemy, but it's still a war crime to kill them since they were not combatants

[orchid kettle]

Actually its implied the UNSC knew about the Covenant when they sent Blue to recover Watts

Halsey mentions that she's being rushed into augmenting them before she's really comfortable doing so, and the Watts mission is like in super late 2525 while Harvest was invaded back in February

[carmine sleet]

You mean 2525?

[orchid kettle]

When Halsey and Mendez go to see the children after the augs, Halsey mentions how there's some action near Harvest

[orchid kettle]

ye

[carmine sleet]

Fair, but like, the UNSC isn't going have any idea about what classifies as a Covenant war crime at that time, which is what Spirte was implying by claiming Chief never broke human laws, even though he has

[orchid kettle]

actually this part is really funny because the IIs are later given a timeline of events surrounding Harvest and like, when the UNSC sent ships to investigate

and going off of that timeline, Halsey should have no knowledge of any rumors having to do with Harvest

[minor sky]

I've spent about a half-hour trying to figure out how to make Chief going AWOL work without it being contrived/forced and I have to pass the question over to you guys- how would you do it? Because every answer I find just doesn't work for me once I try to dig even deeper

[orchid kettle]

I think the way they were going to do it would be that like, you'd only play as Osiris

and you'd have multiple instances of Blue Team showing up at a colony, a guardian awakening, and that colony being decimated

and characters start debating if Chief is causing these incidents or trying to stop them

If only because the e3 demo for 5 had Blue Team running towards the Guardian on Sangheilos, with Osiris in pursuit

and ads had Chief and friends come across a third planet with a Guardian, this one more like a traditional human city

which also may have been the same location as that one ad where Locke/Chief berate the other while pointing a gun at them

[spark pivot]

have him be kidnapped or chased by cortana, and have it seem like he's gone AWOL, while in reality he's just trying to keep her attention away from the spartan team sent after him since he's waiting for reinforcements because this is one army he can't fight on his own

could more or less work as an alternate halo 5 story that probably wouldn't have been hated as much

oh who am I kidding the halo community hates on anyone that isn't chief as a main character

[minor sky]

Not a bad idea but I hesitate to wanna just use Cortana again after her death in Halo 4

[spark pivot]

fair

perhaps have cortana be replaced by the didact or the banished

[minor sky]

I hesitate to make Chief sit the game out, especially if Halo 4 ends with it setting Chief going on some sort of emotional journey up

[minor sky]

But idk, maybe Halo 5 would have to be split up into two games to work

[spark pivot]

I don't think so tbh, it could work as one game, we'd just need to get the story to fit

[minor sky]

Its more an issue of trying to do too much in one game

An issue the actual Halo 5 shares

[spark pivot]

tbh the easy way to fix doing "Too much on one game" is just make the game longer instead of trying to compress it to fit withing X or Y timeframe

atleast IMO

[dusk jetty]

Exhibit A: Eliminate Cortana from the equation entirely, and have the created be a resurgence under the didact who is regathering strength, and is discreetly turning UNSC ai to his side, promising eternal life, something many are worried about after Cortana’s demise. Didacts first order to his created legion is to kill the master chief. Master chief learns of the conspiracy (maybe bring blue team, I haven’t fleshed out this alt story) and is accordingly wrongfully ousted as a traitor to justify killing humanity’s hero.

Why just go awol? Lean into master chief being a traitor entirely

[minor sky]

That isn't a terrible idea

[dusk jetty]

It’s a start, I think it’s a better base to go off of if we just forget Cortana entirely beyond the ramifications of her demise

But what’s done is done this is only wishful thinking from me

[minor sky]

She got a pretty great sendoff in Halo 4, one which treated the subject as very final

[spark pivot]

the only issue is what could possibly be used as something that chief would reasonably defect to?

the best option would be framing him as defecting to the insurrection imo

[dusk jetty]

It’s false accusations, the actual event could be a variety of things

[spark pivot]

yes but how many of those things could actually make sense and be plausible is an important thing to consider

saying "Oh he joined the covenant" isn't something anyone would believe because for the last few decades, the covenant had been slaughtering humanity and giving no quarter (except for when they kidnapped them to interrogate them only to murder them)

[minor sky]

I feel like the Conspiracy angle works very well

Something bigger than ONI or the Covenant is emerging and Chief has to act now

Plays well into Locke as a character too, with him being an ONI agent

I'm not entirely sold on The Created as a concept because their existance kind of acts like a "lets go back to status quo" card

With humanity on the backfoot having to fight off a far larger enemy force

[minor sky]

I feel like in order for it to work it would have to be something which doesn't lead to the inevitable sitcom scenario of "If these characters just talked for 30 seconds this wouldn't be a problem"

[spark pivot]

this could be solved by not letting locke catch up to chief until the end

just, don't let them interact and that issue is solved lol

realisticially chief would be used to moving faster than anyone not a spartan II could catch up, heck look at how it was when the II's were in training

even as a Spartan IV, locke would still be operating slower than chief would since chief's been doing it several times longer than locke

[minor sky]

That works but at the same time I think Chief and Locke not meeting until the very end would be a missed oppurtunity

[spark pivot]

could be solved by locke nearly catching up to chief once but not actually making it instead of the full on confrontation and fight we had in halo 5

a small scuffle not giving either one time to speak because locke's group is under orders to kill chief, could work

definitely not realizing we're basically writing a alt history halo 5 fanfic and we should make this a thread instead

[minor sky]

I still think back to that imagery of the Hunt The Truth ads of Chief and Locke standing amongst the ruin of a city. Having that be the middle of the game always made sense in my mind. Idealy if Locke and Chief ran into to each other it would be like Locke seeing Chief rushing through to get somewhere

Part of my issue with Locke is how disconnected from the mission he feels in 5. It's more like he is just doing his job, I think there should be a bit more of a personal stake or having him approch it with a bit more intuition

[spark pivot]

to be fair, I think with something like ONI, you'd have to be disconnected and treat it like it's just your job or all the stuff that's just blatantly wrong would catch up to you very quickly

[minor sky]

The "you aren't the only one here because of him" line gives some idea of Locke possibly refusing to see Chief as just going crazy and needing to be put down. He would approch it less like a hitman and more like a detective

[spark pivot]

but it has to be written well otherwise its just your average bland black ops character

[minor sky]

Walking in Chief's footsteps for lack of a better word

[spark pivot]

following chiefs footsteps?

[minor sky]

No no, like through his past

[spark pivot]

you mean like in halo 2 anni cutscenes where locke is going over chiefs combat logs or something?

also I just realized how terrifying going over chiefs combat logs after halo 2 and 3 would've been for whoever was stuck with reviewing them

[minor sky]

Kind of

I like the idea of Locke's campaign being part-investigaton/part-manhunt/part-space adventure

[minor sky]

My big issue with trying to rework Halo 5 is just how much stuff is on it's plate

Chief's emotional arc
Blue Team
Locke hunting down the Master Chief
Trying to follow up the Didact/expand upon the Forerunner stuff introduced in Halo 4
Osiris
The Covenant remnants
The Arbiter and the Swords Of Sanghelios
Ect.

[spark pivot]

tbh I don't think these are that big of an issue, the covenant remnants could be an enemy that you're "racing against time" to beat them to X or Y thing that expands upon forerunner stuff, osiris is chasing chief bc of being framed for Z, they happen to pass through sanghelios because they got a lead on something that could help them find chief, blue team could be deployed parallel to osiris or something fireteam majestic style, there's a few options

[minor sky]

Still, its a lot of stuff for one game to cover

[spark pivot]

depends on how long you're willing to make the game tbh

[minor sky]

But you also have to keep in mind how much effort goes into a video game and how many hurdles developers tend to hit

[spark pivot]

this is true

[indigo blade]

is there any more divine aliens beyond the precursors?

[spark pivot]

We don't know.

[indigo blade]

[hardy swan]

The asgardians

[minor sky]

While I'm glad we got a Waypoint Chronicle and a Firefight map, I am still really sad knowing that we never got a proper conclusion to what will probably be Joesph Staten's final game writing credit in the series

It would've been awesome to see the story actually play out in game. I think they cancelled it far too soon, especially with how the Infected season was pretty well recived

[indigo blade]

from halo not marvel

[minor sky]

The Yonhet, obviously

Or the Dazreme because who knows what they are up to in what I assume is space atlantis

[glass pine]

Never heard of those two, are they other forerunners?

Ooooh wait, covenant fringe :0

[minor sky]

No, I'm just joking around

[glass pine]

You had me

Been long enough since I heard those names

[minor sky]

Both of those species who exist on the fringes of space/don't have a ton of documentation

https://garrettpost.artstation.com/projects/K3y3Wr

[hardy swan]

the yonhet are the most humanoid aliens in the halo universe

[minor sky]

Garrett Post, the artist who drew the Dazreme for the 2022 version of the Encyclopedia did a redesign of them that looks really cool

On a quick side note- Garrett Post is among the artists I want to see work directly on a Halo game project so badly. His stuff is incredible

[minor sky]

I mean the Forerunners also exist

Or existed

[hardy swan]

nah

those guys are like 10 feet tall and look like squidward

[minor sky]

It varies from Forerunner to Forerunner

The Didact was heavily genetically altered

[remote wave]

basically human but remove 5 feet

[hardy swan]

feet
heh

[obsidian thistle]

The og conclusion to that thread was Iratus was shut down and ONI get involved as a sorta bad guy (yes we have a public source on that now) 🙂

I think what we got was better as it keeps Iratus in the picture.

[remote wave]

jerkhead

[soft plank]

Does anyone know the name of the unggoy that talks with an elite at a cliff in the H5 mission : "Alliance" ? I just want to know about him more .

Nvm, found him

[minor sky]

I hope he shows up again

Honestly 343i/HS should just make him the main character

Granted with Joe Staten gone they'd have to get a new VA

[stiff bluff]

Does anyone know what is next in the story for master chief and the weapon?

[stoic hamlet]

We’ll find out when Edge of Dawn releases.

[stiff bluff]

Man I wish they didn’t kill off Cortana

[stoic hamlet]

You’re about… 13 years too late for that, technically.

But she’d have died anyways, her time was up even despite the Didact and etc.

[spice crystal]

When's that releasing?

[spark pivot]

tail end of this year iirc

[spice crystal]

Ok

[stoic hamlet]

December, so it seems.

[quartz thicket]

for any of the lore nerds, are there any insurrectionist bases that are like, named?

[dense falcon]

I'm not sure about bases, but there are a couple of planets: Talitsa and Cassidy III, that are under full United Rebel Front control.

Both appeared in the Edward Buck books

[quartz thicket]

Gotcha

Dunno if either of those fit but I appreciate it

[dense falcon]

Whatchu looking for, Dexi?

I guess you could also count the moon that showed up in First Strike, let me see if there's a name

Ah, got it. I think this'll be what you're looking for:
https://www.halopedia.org/Eridanus_Secundus

@quartz thicket

[quartz thicket]

Nothing specific just looking to make a fictional like, factory name and wanted it to be moderately lore related

that one I think I can make work

[orchid kettle]

There's not really any established naming scheme

I don't think it would really fit their ragtag nature anyway

[rugged creek]

Saw somebody today repeating that idea from the old game theory episode that a Spartan’s armor is so heavy that if you punch the wearer the weight of their own armor will crush them

This is just straight up false right?

The armor has internal structure enough to take its own weight, as evidenced by Master Chief armor locking at the beginning of Halo 3 and Halo Infinite

And the reason punching someone in the back is an instant kill is because Spartans and Elites are just strong enough to break their neck or spine on impact, that’s my understanding of how that works?

[orchid kettle]

Elites have been nerfed pretty hard since their glory days, and its not really correct to think they have the same amount of durability as Spartans

[rugged creek]

I don’t think they’re as strong as Spartans, but based on they can lift gravity hammers and entire fully armored marines with one hand, I would imagine they’re still strong enough to break bones in a single punch

[orchid kettle]

Yeah but Spartans obviously have the armor itself and their enhanced skeleton

[rugged creek]

Yes

The armor like reacts to the Spartans’s neural interface and has like movement assist/predictive motion right

Like if a Spartan takes a step forward, the armor reads that and its servos also take a step forward in sync, the armor isn’t just limp and the Spartan is moving it purely by their own strength?

If so, that could potentially explain why melee in the back is insta kill but melee from the front isn’t

If the Spartan can see the punch incoming and know they’re about to get hit, they would obviously be reflexively bracing and tensing up for the impact, and the armor would likely do the same. So when you punch an enemy player in the face, their neck muscles and armor are already tensed and ready to absorb the shock

But when you conk a Spartan on the back of the head in multiplayer, neither they nor their armor is bracing for it so their neck just takes the full impact

[quartz thicket]

unfortunately because of the latter half of the word Eridanus I went with something slightly different https://imgur.com/a/VF6ij5C

[rugged creek]

This is true, but nonetheless Elites have been consistently portrayed as being able to melee Spartans to death in every Halo game, as obviously they have the famous kick in Reach, and in 3 multiplayer an elite player can beat down a Spartan player. Also, in Infinite, Chak Lok is able to physically subdue Spartan Griffin. I haven’t read many of the recent novels and stuff, but it seems like certainly in the games, Elites are strong enough to go hand to hand with Spartans, even if they aren’t technically evenly matched

While in a vaccum Spartans may technically be stronger, that doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll always win in hand to hand. Just because I can beat someone in arm wrestling doesn’t mean it won’t hurt if they punch me in the face

[stoic hamlet]

They’re generally strong enough but not fast enough.

At best they’re portrayed as equally fast, but that’s rarer.

[rugged creek]

Makes sense

[rugged creek]

Only the more elite Elites who are super skilled seem to be that way

Spec ops guys and Ultras and stuff will really come for you, especially in infinite when they have real animations for the sword

But most elite infantry don’t

Presumably being that fast and skilled is why they got promoted to those higher ranks and specialized roles in the first place

[frank dome]

remeber that one time when noble 6 survied in that cave\

[empty bloom]

It always kinda bothered me that Elites and such could almost, seemingly, easily melee kill Spartans.

Like, seriously, wear a helmet, and get punched in the head by another dude wearing plate mail gauntlets. You're not gonna be happy, but you aren't gonna be dead.

[last anchor]

Rule of cool?

[orchid kettle]

When you think about it, shouldn't Spartans and Elites be constantly shattering their own shields if they try to engage in melee combat

Like as is we're just expected to believe that newton's third law doesn't apply during fistfights

[sour raven]

Oh

[eternal wigeon]

I think trying to apply real world physics to science fiction wizard magic is enough to start thinking that maybe we just have to accept that it's a losing battle when it comes to trying to justify logic

[glacial coral]

Sangheili are impressive. But I'll always favour the Jiralhanae.

[spark pivot]

To be fair I feel like the energy shields matter a good bit less in fistfights than they do in gunfights

Energy shields don't magically negate impact, they just protect the armor from high velocity projectiles, in a melee fight punches would probably do a good bit

[orchid kettle]

Its not exclusively projectiles, Fred gets slammed by a Brute and has his shields drop to half, and Vale in Outcasts is protected from energy sword swipes by her shields

I think what makes the most sense is that the shields are just like this fine mesh that dampens impact, but doesn't totally negate all kinetic energy since otherwise you wouldn't have stuff like characters reeling from punches while their shields were still active

So what makes sense to me is that the "mesh" is so thin, or more like, the gaps are so large on the hands that the shields are basically non-existent

and the system overall just doesn't take damage on that part of the body

Chief is warned in TFOR after all that his shields are super thin near his hands and feet to allow him to grab objects and move around without slipping, which comes with the downside of said areas being weaker in terms of defense

[last anchor]

"The slow blade pierces the shield"
-Frank Herbert, Dune

[last anchor]

He also cranks the shield strenght on his feet up and notes it feels like hes walking on greased ice

[orchid kettle]

ngl if I was spartan Id crank that up all the time so I could ice skate through the battlefield

[spark pivot]

thats nice except you have no traction

good luck controlling your movements

[ionic tiger]

Pretty sure thrown rocks bypassed the Onyc Sentinels shields too.

[spark pivot]

or are you gonna pull a ruby from rwby and use a sniper to propell yourself

[stoic hamlet]

It was slower moving objects.

They worked under Dune rules.

[ionic tiger]

The might of the Forerunners foiled by Ewok logic

[minor sky]

Something something American Revolution/Vietnam War

[stoic hamlet]

Neither of those really fit the bill.

maybe Vietnam, but definitely not the American revolution Unless you completely ignore history, lol.

[empty bloom]

No need to ignore history if you're ignorant of it.

Vietnam, for example, was actually fairly decently equipped, far better than ewoks, with the actual rebels being inspired more heavily by Vietcong troops and support for a reason (The Empire itself being a homage to the obvious jackboot standby hybridized with 50's-70's America).

A combination of effective combined sustainment tactics combined with trusted tech and persistence rather than ambush tactics and yeeting rocks.

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah.

The amount of people I’ve had to educate on the US’s revolutionary war though regarding the whole “minuteman” thing, despite them being yanks, is… depressing.

It’s not even my war/my nation was technically an opponent, yet I know the history better than you.

sigh.

[frigid heart]

Cough, the patriot, cough

Great movie, shows exactly the kind of guerilla warfare the colonists used

[empty bloom]

Simplest way I can put it is that American education does not teach history in an engaging way-and most Americans are not the type of person to be rigorously enaged in an understanding of history in general.

I like to attribute it to having a culture not unlike someone trying, continuously, to make more effecient public transportation than buses and trains.

And then, continuing to make buses and trains, and being pissy that they keep making buses and trains.

[frigid heart]

Because buses suck

At least school ones

[empty bloom]

Public transportation is largely hammered by [Further political conversation denied]. Point is, it's crappy for a reason.

Anyways, hyperindividualistic and selfish societies tend to know less about history; After all, I'll win, so why know why we are doing so well?

[frigid heart]

💯

[empty bloom]

... Man, this topic always makes me feel a little sad.

[frigid heart]

My global history class last year was just like what you’re talking about. We spent like a week on the origins of the Byzantine empire, but took like 15 minutes to talk about the revolutionary war, Vietnam, Iraq, and all the stuff that pertains to modern America

And as a history nerd I was disappointed

[empty bloom]

All of those are intensely related to everything even now, those are all literal world-shaping events that directly resulted in the current world state of affairs.

I bet they didn't even teach you guys about the Battle of Blair Mountain or the Coal Wars, which were concurrent with WW1.

[minor sky]

Look man, those are the conflicts Lucas specifically refered to in interviews

[empty bloom]

(Both were an early 1910s era civil rights movement regarding union workers fighting for their rights-often with explosives and rifles-against their employers and Government-backed militias such as the Pinkertons)

[minor sky]

Don't shoot the messenger is all I'm saying

[empty bloom]

Which, to loop this back to Halo, is not too dissimilar to the Interplanetary wars. If anything, you could actually tie many of Halo's economic issues-such as the increasing outer colony issues or how insurrectionists immediately became a huge issue again after the HCW-off of people refusing to understand "Hey, whoa, maybe we should actually listen to the people instead of shooting them when they get uppity"

[minor sky]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fv9Jq_mCJEo&pp=ygUUZ2VvcmdlIGx1Y2FzIHZpZXRuYW0%3D

[empty bloom]

Historically, civilian populations tend to hate it when you pilfer from them too much.

They like it less if you beat them with batons for protesting.

They start to find ways to shoot back if you start to shoot them.

And your own men tend to turn on you if you make them butcher their friends and family for resisting.

[minor sky]

Here is the specific interview for the record

[supple jasper]

I have a question is it okay if I talk about some theories and game ideas here that would fit with the halo books. so may I?

[hardy swan]

Damn just to be reminded the sequels exist

[supple jasper]

is it okay if i talk about theories and future halo game ideas?

im new so im not sure

[last anchor]

Sure just dont expect anyone to comment
And certainly not for anyone from HS to listen or care

[hardy swan]

there was a thread for Halo 7 ideas idk where it went

[minor sky]

https://youtu.be/0EDmTKsPqn8?si=T-KWKe8AF-x4Ayjg

A Reap-X themed Weapon Model was not on my Bingo Card

The only Reap-X vehicle I thought looked cool was that bike with the treads

[vagrant ocean]

Pretty based lowkey.

[minor sky]

Yeah, it's a cool callback

also the most love Mega will get all year

[eternal wigeon]

I just read earlier chats
I think y'all need to chill if you're gonna bring up history, that stuff is very debatable and possibly controversial depending on the context

[obsidian thistle]

If anything happens. Thats why we are here! 🙂