#lore-and-universe

1 messages · Page 99 of 1

ionic tiger
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That’s not really Halopedia’s fault.

sleek vigil
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Maybe you are confusing people who actually read the wiki with people who read fanon?

gusty star
sleek vigil
carmine sleet
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I hate when the weather gets over 20 C

gusty star
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I use to be someone who strictly read Halopedia and I have to say I feel like I understand a lot more stuff now that I actually read official sources

sleek vigil
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(in context of gaining lore knowledge)

carmine sleet
sleek vigil
sleek vigil
carmine sleet
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I wasn't even rude to him, I was just like "Hey, Halo Fanon is not reliable since it's fan works being published there"

carmine sleet
orchid kettle
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I will say I only really follow two pages on Halopedia, MA5B and Odst battle armor, and I feel both pages have some wiggle room where fan interpretation may differ from that of halopedia's

sleek vigil
sleek vigil
orchid kettle
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like at least last I saw, halopedia claims the MA5B's new length stat in the 2022 encyclopedia is a mistake when I think 343 is just canonizing the clear length disparity that exists between the CE assault rifle and the ARs that came after

sleek vigil
orchid kettle
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Or that the ODST body armor and helmet is made out of titanium, when that only really comes from Halo 3's original armor description, and we have a character in Silent Storm who specifically says the ODST's aren't wearing "titanium powered armor"

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Though the potential explanation there is that the late war BDU is titanium, and whatever the Black Daggers were wearing back in 2526 wasn't.

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Id honestly be curious to know when MJOLNIR was first stated to be made out of Titanium-A as well, since at least in the original 6 books and Evolutions, Titanium-A had only ever specifically been used on space ships or in fortifications

sleek vigil
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@gusty star, Sacred Icon Suite is so good!

gusty star
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So cinematic

sleek vigil
gusty star
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Of course I love almost all Halo music

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You should see the playlists I have on Spotify

sleek vigil
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For me, it's Halo 3 >= Halo 4 > Halo 2.

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Behold a Pale Horse is pure bliss. Simply.

orchid kettle
sleek vigil
orchid kettle
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maybe i just have holes in my brain

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like a fine swiss cheese

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I do think the ODST armor thing is kinda an example of a fan perhaps needing to look at the material for themselves and draw their own conclusions while Halopedia is perhaps duty bound to include any and all information even if said information has never really been corroborated since.

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Like the odst cosplay guide dances around the question of what the armor is made of, and maybe that's just because it doesn't want to confuse the cosplayer following the guide

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But the Mark VII guide mentions that the suit is made of Titanium-A

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So to me at least, I think at the moment, 343/HS doesn't know what they want the armor to be made of

orchid kettle
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The MA5C in the encyclopedia has a length thats more in line with the MA5D, as opposed to the shorter length from the Halo 3 days

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The article is leaning on the old bungie numbers for the weapon instead of the latest numbers, and I think some fans would disagree with that.

gusty star
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Every song is peak

obsidian thistle
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By all means it could be a version of the Halo 2/2A bdu

orchid kettle
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Probably, that's what I personally imagine them wearing

obsidian thistle
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Which we have like... no lore on

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Seriously we have no lore on the 2/2A ODST BDU

orchid kettle
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Halo Wars 2 also has some odst blitz card art where the ODSTs are using heavy armor reminiscent of the Halo 3 set, but with different shoulders and the H2A helmet

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but also blitz card art I'd imagine is kind of a gray area

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Especially when 343 can just say that Isabel gave them design details for a new suit and the SoF just manufactured them

vagrant ocean
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Both are likely.

orchid kettle
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Sunray 1-1 having Halo 3 helmets and suits also kinda beg the question of how late these "late-war" BDUs can really be, unless again, it was all new Isabel stuff that Sunray quickly customized

gusty star
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I think the earliest time in the lore we have seen the Halo 3 BDU is Operation Gray Veil in 2544?

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I might be completely wrong on that tho

orchid kettle
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There's always the evergreen excuse of Legends' visuals being noncanon even if the events are, at least vaguely

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In fact with Gray Veil specifically, we've since seen those same ruins in Infinite and big surprise, they don't look like feudal japanese architecture

stoic hamlet
orchid kettle
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Live action I feel like has the similar issue of visuals perhaps not being 1:1 because of budget constraints

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like didnt recon team charlie from that reach trailer also wear odst armor

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assumingly because they just had it from shooting the Halo 3/ODST trailers

ionic tiger
gusty star
gusty star
orchid kettle
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For what it's worth as well, I'd consider 2544 late war

vagrant ocean
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Almost 20 years

karmic gulch
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Halo music is NOT indeed mid as stereotypical cod players (my friends) say

vagrant ocean
karmic gulch
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lol

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People in my friend group just hate halo in general

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EVEN

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the campaigns

vagrant ocean
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Are their parents related?

karmic gulch
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Wdym?

vagrant ocean
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Are they inbred. It’s a joke

karmic gulch
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lol

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all the campaigns are at least decent

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Though H5 is the weakest one

safe heart
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Wait that’s a thing??

empty bloom
safe heart
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I’m moving there immediately

empty bloom
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Anyways, my biggest greivance against Halo 5 is that its decent-but-poorly-paced plot got slandered so bad that people somehow think it has a worse plot than Halo 3, which is just absolutely criminal considering the travesty that is 3's plot.

carmine sleet
karmic gulch
empty bloom
karmic gulch
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???

empty bloom
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I stand by what I said.

karmic gulch
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No, Like what do you mean?

empty bloom
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No Chief.

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Nix Blue Team, throw it all out the airlock.

karmic gulch
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why?

empty bloom
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For condensing the story into two seperate halves instead of trying to pull a Halo 2 while axing about six plus hours of runtime due to crunch.

karmic gulch
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true

empty bloom
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Halo 5 is the Halo 2 of the 343 games, with none of the cheap allocades that come with it being people's first Xbox game.

karmic gulch
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yeah

empty bloom
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Annnnd ooooh does that make me steam.

karmic gulch
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that they tried to pull a halo 2?

empty bloom
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No, that people don't recognize bias in themselves.

karmic gulch
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oh

lavish jetty
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Halo 2 is pretty untouchable, probably the greatest game in the series really

empty bloom
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Simply put, people are blind to flaws 2 and 5 both share, or flaws 2 has independently.

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Ditto with upsides; 2's upsides are glorified beyond what they should be and are overvalued, 5's upsides are dismissed casually.

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People even forgot that Halo 2's storyline was utterly loathed for years until 343 took over the franchise.

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Arbiter getting demoted to sidekick was literally due to backlash from Halo 2, not too dissimilar to Locke's own treatment (which was, admittedly, still worse).

lavish jetty
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Halo 5's upside is a competitive multiplayer, a robust Forge mode, and a wider selection of armor customization (hampered by the REQ system)

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I can't think of much else

empty bloom
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Proving my point. Dismissed multiple out of hand.

lavish jetty
empty bloom
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Varied environments, a deeper element of political schemeing that gets ignored because it isn't face value, an exploration into backstory, et cetera.

lavish jetty
empty bloom
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And people said that about 2.

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Because, like 5, at the time, they did next to no actual looking into the plot.

lavish jetty
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Halo 2 actually did that well to be honest.

empty bloom
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People just hate 5's plot.

lavish jetty
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The Arbiter's story was brilliant

empty bloom
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No real reason behind it though.

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Wasn't viewed as such at the time, much like how Locke's story is actually pretty damn good, people just don't like it because it's not about Chief.

lavish jetty
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I think Locke is a great idea actually

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I just don't believe much of it was delivered on well. A major thing that bugged me with Halo 5 is how different the actual game was from the marketing material

empty bloom
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Yet another thing 2 and 5 have in common.

lavish jetty
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Halo 2 was different in marketing?

empty bloom
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Halo 2's marketing made a huge deal about how you were fighting on Earth tooth and nail the entire game.

lavish jetty
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Are you referring to the differences in the demo level?

empty bloom
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No real mention of the Arbiter or anything else.

lavish jetty
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Oh, I see.. that is quite misleading then

empty bloom
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5 was more egrigious about it but post-mortems on the advertising showed that they had different design notes than the actual campaign team, which was somewhat mercurial.

lavish jetty
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I'm not familiar with the promotional content for Halo 2 outside of the gameplay reveal

empty bloom
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But like-misleading ad campaigns is also kind of a Halo tradition.

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Halo 4 ad campaigns had Chief getting captured and tortured by the Didact, for example.

lavish jetty
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Halo 3 probably had the best ad campaign

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For all its' faults in story

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Halo: Landfall and the documentary series were so iconic and well-made

orchid kettle
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ODST's ad campaign was neat for like the literal idea of what an ODST was, but didn't really match the tone of the game at all

lavish jetty
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A funeral, some Irish? music I think

orchid kettle
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Though really that was just The Life, while you still had stuff like Desperate Measures and the pre-mission interviews that were actually about the characters

empty bloom
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I don't know if that was Dutch, but yeah

orchid kettle
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Its not, its just Some Guy

lavish jetty
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Ah, I was so sure

empty bloom
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Reach's ad campaign also had a whole thing where it was like, random civilians and marines doing things, and sometimes talking about Noble maybe.

orchid kettle
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There was that recon team charlie one where they're reusing the live action ODST suits

empty bloom
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I'm thinking of the one where they are wearing some old US Marine Corps camo and talking in front of a Warthog

lavish jetty
empty bloom
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Oh

orchid kettle
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Deliver Hope and that Carter short were again cool but also feels like they built up this expectation that the game would be about these characters

empty bloom
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No

lavish jetty
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The trailer with Thom delivering that bomb

empty bloom
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This was not that.

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This was a whole other thing.

orchid kettle
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muh hyper lethal vector

empty bloom
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Like, that'd be great if we actually learned anything that actually mattered about Reach that wasn't told to us lmao

orchid kettle
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I know Thom was at one point going to be a bigger deal, but ultimately Reach felt like it's primary goal was just to provide an alternative origin for the events of CE

lavish jetty
orchid kettle
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with the player now actively helping out Keyes, Cortana, and the Pillar of Autumn

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Especially when you get that ending speech with Halsey and its clearly more like an ode to you, the player, than like, an ode to Noble Team

lavish jetty
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It was bad of them to break the Fall of Reach novel the way that they did to be honest

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IIIs in MJOLNIR instead of SPI as well, a mistake

empty bloom
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What's stupid is that I don't hate everything Reach retconned.

lavish jetty
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Same^

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It has its' own charm

empty bloom
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Like, the Fall of Reach being a 1 month battle with tons of casualties? Makes sense, good.

orchid kettle
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In Bungie's defense you could argue that it was like them re-exerting ownership over the IP they shared and ultimately had to give to microsoft, since TFOR existed largely because MS wanted a novel tie-in

empty bloom
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At that point we already knew some engagements between the UNSC and Covenant would last months, so like, yeah, cool, Reach falls in the expected timeframe.

lavish jetty
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I kind of head-canoned it by presuming the events of the game were kept under wraps until the events of the novel blew everything out of water

orchid kettle
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but fans actually liked that novel tie-in so it probably hurt more than it helped

empty bloom
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Classic Bungie tbh.

orchid kettle
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if the books went the way of most video game tie in novels I don't think anybody would have actually cared that much

frigid heart
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Reach is the best game

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Cope

lavish jetty
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Top 3

unborn patrol
empty bloom
orchid kettle
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then again apparently Bioshock fans got real mad when the bioshock book got retconned in that Infinite DLC

empty bloom
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Wait, they made Bioshock books?

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Huh, TIL.

orchid kettle
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they made one

empty bloom
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I might look for it.

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I assume Minerva's Den killed it, then.

lavish jetty
empty bloom
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Bungie was kind of in its "Move fast and break crap" arc around then.

lavish jetty
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Tell a new one around the old canon, explain your retcons so fans have closure

orchid kettle
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Yeah, but sadly Bungie's main concern became like, about how YOU, the player, were ultimately responsible for CE happening

empty bloom
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Plus, Bungie's attitude back then was more... Fratboy?

lavish jetty
orchid kettle
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and thats kinda difficult to do without stepping on TFOR's toes because TFOR was already the setup for CE

unborn patrol
empty bloom
orchid kettle
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Bungie was against the idea of "milking" Halo, which by itself I don't think is necessarily a bad thing

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It just so happened that Halo kept making good side material

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like the books and Halo Wars

empty bloom
orchid kettle
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and of course, who could forget Halo Risk

empty bloom
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And by ruinous mismanagement I'm looking at Microsoft for that more than 343.

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Like, what sort of absolute nutjob throws a brand new fresh IP they want a release for in a year and a half at a company that isn't even fully staffed yet, while you are throwing staff at them?

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Releasing a full fledged Halo sequel at the very end of a console's lifespan, on an engine that the previous title holders didn't even leave you basic build notes for?

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Microsoft, what are you doing?

orchid kettle
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One year before the Xbox One would come out, too

empty bloom
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Lunacy. Madness.

lavish jetty
empty bloom
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It's the only route that would've made sense!

lavish jetty
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More time between games, robust development

orchid kettle
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I kinda wish we let fans miss Chief for a bit longer before bringing him back

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Bro only really missed one game

lavish jetty
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Imagine the hype train if 343 would have announced the new Halo game ten odd years after Halo 3 instead?

unborn patrol
orchid kettle
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I dunno, how well did Reach do commercially

unborn patrol
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especially if the game was happening after the halo event

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reach was different because it was before chiefs time in the games

empty bloom
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Which, tbf, it was fighting Black Ops and MW3.

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Which, like, damn, I do not envy that fight.

lavish jetty
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The thing is, there's 27 years of Human-Covenant War + the Forerunner-Flood War + Ancient Humanity

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So many spin-off avenues

unborn patrol
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yeah hope we get some proper media regarding those

empty bloom
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And sending Halo's dev team against CoD is like setting Andre the Giant on painkillers against a pack of 5th graders. Like, yeah, those fifth graders might do something, but Andre's gonna tear them limb from limb.

unborn patrol
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terrible image thanks

lavish jetty
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LOL

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A title following a Marine probably could've worked too, no?

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Customizable player

empty bloom
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That's not even saying 343i of then was incompetent, it's more just... CoD's run by three companies that each individually outnumber 343i employees 3 to 1.

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And it is not an even fight.

unborn patrol
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maybe? but like who wants to be a marine in the halo world. even the ODST thing was a stretch and those guys are actually cool

lavish jetty
lavish jetty
unborn patrol
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youre so disposable in a world thats just out to kill you. I really wonder how youd make that a nice experience apart from maybe a horror game

lavish jetty
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If Chips Dubbo can survive, why can't we

empty bloom
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Reminder that Microsoft shut down multiple planned 343 side games

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Including one where you play as a Broadsword/Sabre/Longsword pilot

carmine sleet
unborn patrol
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I think whatever the spinoff itd be nice to have a proper alien game. not just half and half like H2 but proper like lets do a whole campaign as a grunt

lavish jetty
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But he still canonically exists

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That gives free reign

carmine sleet
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Eh. That doesn't mean they should make a horror game focused on the Aussie who is always wise cracking

lavish jetty
unborn patrol
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a game about venetia would be really dope

lavish jetty
unborn patrol
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I really wanna see that world and how it operates

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and experience it from the pov of multiple inhabitants

lavish jetty
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Make another one, player-insert focused

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Maybe Anti-Insurrection; end with the Covenant's arrival

lavish jetty
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Or deployed there

unborn patrol
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cant remember

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probably

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but with infinite weve had many connections to it now

lavish jetty
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Venezia's an interesting world for sure. Insurrectionists living alongside Covenant species, right?

unborn patrol
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its been talked about so much its like its calling for us

unborn patrol
lavish jetty
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Sounds fascinating

unborn patrol
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itd be really cool to have a few stories placed in an openworld venetia. all the stories put you out into the world as a different race

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think like one with a human, one with a brute, one with a jackal etc

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another way would be to do like a ratchet and clank style thing where you can travel between different planets. familiar and new. all of them having an open environment to explore

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for all its space traveling I feel like the experiences we have in different places are so boxed in it kind of doesnt feel like you just traveled lightyears to get there. you just spawn in on the ship landing or hell just on the ground

lavish jetty
unborn patrol
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so its just place 1 nd place 2

unborn patrol
lavish jetty
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It's an old game to be fair

unborn patrol
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Ive only played like the old battlefront games lmao

lavish jetty
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The best Star Wars games may very well be KOTOR

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At least, for me

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Also super old tho

karmic gulch
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whats the full name?

lavish jetty
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Either way, an RPG or MMO type game would be cool in Halo's universe

karmic gulch
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yes they would

lavish jetty
karmic gulch
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oh

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my favorite is SWBF2

unborn patrol
lavish jetty
karmic gulch
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recent

lavish jetty
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Definition of a new experience within an established franchise, too

karmic gulch
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I do think it would be cool to have a helldivers 2 like ODST game

unborn patrol
lavish jetty
karmic gulch
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yeah

unborn patrol
karmic gulch
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it also does kinda feel like helldivers 2 stole a lot of concepts from ODSTs

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drop pod idea, kinda but the names are way too similar

lavish jetty
lavish jetty
karmic gulch
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yeah

unborn patrol
karmic gulch
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I also think a halo game that has gameplay like SWBF2 set in the covenant war would be cool as well

lavish jetty
lavish jetty
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Ground to space combat in Halo would be so dope

karmic gulch
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yes

unborn patrol
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yeah thatd be sick

lavish jetty
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Even though the Covenant usually just demolish everything UNSC in a space battle, and whenever we are lucky enough to win they usually just back out to orbit then glass our world LOL

unborn patrol
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we could even place it in modern day with a deciding conflict between unsc and banished

karmic gulch
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and like the base UNSC classes are ODSTs and marines, and then you can also play as a Spartan with some sort of system like battle points

karmic gulch
karmic gulch
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also how would an RPG fit into the halo universe?

unborn patrol
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I think people would expect to be able to

karmic gulch
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yeah

unborn patrol
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and a story

karmic gulch
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is it a outlaw planet?

unborn patrol
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yeah

karmic gulch
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would make sence there

lavish jetty
karmic gulch
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that'd be cool

unborn patrol
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we definitely need more media from the insurrectionist pov. I feel like the history and stuff were given is too UNSC filtered

karmic gulch
lavish jetty
unborn patrol
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I havent but been on the list

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just dont got the time nowadays

lavish jetty
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It covers the Rebellion's origins and was written really well

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The Empire is clearly the bad guy, but there's so much nuance in ANDOR. In Halo - the UNSC, UEG, and ONI are different layers of lawful evil or lawful good.

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You could tell an extremely rich story there

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The Halo Insurrectionists have a real story, like revolutionaries and freedom fighters in our own world; but there are also extremist factions like terrorists.

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The UNSC has plenty of people who believe they're fighting for the right thing, same with the Insurrectionists.

karmic gulch
lavish jetty
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Some cells just want to be independent and protect their sovereignty, others form major fronts like the URF and wage civil war

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Then there could be more clandestine rebel factions like ANDOR's Axis

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So much room for intrigue there

lavish jetty
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Probably because it's less explored

karmic gulch
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i thought that too

lavish jetty
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Less canon to risk breaking

karmic gulch
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yeah

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bro 343 should take these ideas

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like i dont think these concepts would be flops

lavish jetty
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I doubt these types of ideas haven't been floated over there

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They're passionate too, many of them love Halo as much as we do

karmic gulch
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yeah

lavish jetty
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But Microsoft and upper management holds all the cards

karmic gulch
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true

lavish jetty
karmic gulch
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yeah

lavish jetty
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So they'll put hours upon hours thinking up ideas like these, but at the end of the day they just do their job

karmic gulch
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I do think exploring more parts of the story in video games would be good

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yeah

lavish jetty
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For sure. I cautionedly would say that it's almost unfortunate that the books are so good right now, because not many of our fanbase actually reads them. More watch synopses but a lot is lost in translation

karmic gulch
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yeah

lavish jetty
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The games have been mediocre for about 10-15 years or so

karmic gulch
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since 343 took over?

lavish jetty
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The novels and other forms of content have cooked almost the entire time

lavish jetty
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Reach made the first big missteps, in my opinion. But mistakes were made as far back as Halo 2

karmic gulch
#

why reach?

lavish jetty
# karmic gulch why reach?

I'll preface my answer to your question by saying that I actually like Halo: Reach. It's in my top three, but; it broke the Fall of Reach novel in a lot of ways. The most glaring is the timeline, but also; SPARTAN-IIIs wearing MJOLNIR instead of Semi-Powered Infiltration (SPI) armor to name two major mistakes on the narrative side. Then, you have the gameplay changes between Halo 2/3 and Reach. The loadout systems (taking after series like COD) were not loved. Big changes there. Many pro Halo players stayed on 3 for a while. Then, there's also the artstyle changes. I'd say it actually does have some charm, and it isn't so drastic a difference as what we got with Halo 4; but it's definitely different enough.

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The 'hyper-lethal vector' thing has always bugged me, as well.

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I could really go on for a while here.

karmic gulch
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yeah

lavish jetty
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Bloom, everybody hated bloom

karmic gulch
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also. do we have a ETA on Halo 7?

lavish jetty
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Halo: Reach also did a lot of things well, though. Armor customization is probably its' strongsuit, but Forge World was also great, the Forge was an advancement for certain. The narrative itself has a lot of charm, like the irony in each member of NOBLE Team's demise.

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NOBLE Six being us was cool too

lavish jetty
karmic gulch
lavish jetty
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The most I know of is that "multiple halo projects are under development" and an announcement was made recently that the next HCS event will include more information on at least one of them? I believe

karmic gulch
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ohok

lavish jetty
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The Halo: CE 'remake' is not confirmed, that was just an Unreal Engine demo showcase

stoic hamlet
lavish jetty
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I'm fairly sure it's in a conversation between Buck and Jun

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"He was a good man"

stoic hamlet
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Aye, but even then we knew a lot about them if one had read Ghosts of Onyx, and extrapolated from there.

lavish jetty
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Something along those lines

stoic hamlet
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Yeah, it’s from New Blood.

lavish jetty
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So while it's pre-determined, it's a little more player-insert-friendly than John was.

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With Halo: Reach changing so much canon one wouldn't be a fool to expect that a lot of the rules have changed

stoic hamlet
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Maybe when it first released, but now it’s pretty well “fixed” mostly.

It only took over a decade, but you know, better late than never.

lavish jetty
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True

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Overall, I think the whole universe could use a onceover. A clean-up of conflicts

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Revert some retcons without breaking what's new, create some retcons to thread the old and new together cleanly. Just for continuity's sake

karmic gulch
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so youre suggesting restarting the halo series?

carmine sleet
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They are not

karmic gulch
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oh ok

carmine sleet
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They're suggesting someone go over things to clean up any inconsistencies that exist within the lore

karmic gulch
#

ohhhhh

carmine sleet
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Don't need a reboot to do that

lavish jetty
#

That'd be like what Disney did to Star Wars legends

karmic gulch
#

yeah

lavish jetty
#

If only Halo had its' very own Sam Witwer

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Or someone akin to the way Henry Cavill is with Warhammer

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Notable fans that are recognized by the community and knowledgeable on the extended lore of their respective interests

stoic hamlet
# lavish jetty Or someone akin to the way Henry Cavill is with Warhammer

And the Witcher, in his case.

There’s a great video (an interview he did for Witcher) where one of his costars briefly mentions he started playing the table top of 40K , and you can see Cavill just immediately light up, like he’s not in an interview and is just chatting with his friends. It’s kind of cute, and hilarious.

lavish jetty
stoic hamlet
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And then he catches himself and it’s back to business.

lavish jetty
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I know exactly what you mean, such a cool moment

stoic hamlet
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A few I’d call out, even on here as being in that crowd. @obsidian thistle for example, Toa_Freak/Halo Canon, though they’ve left Halo behind, sadly.

Several other Halopedians, etc.

#

I guess the closest if only because he’s a bit more public would be HiddenXperia, though there are others I find more reliable with information.

Haruspis/Alex Wakeford used to be one, but he betrayed us for 343/HS hiss

lavish jetty
orchid kettle
lavish jetty
#

Cavill with Witcher, as you correctly pointed out; and Witwer with Star Wars

stoic hamlet
orchid kettle
#

In fact for a while didn't people insist that every "Marine" you met in CE must've been an ODST because in The Flood, there's seemingly no other marines but Helljumpers

stoic hamlet
#

Another good example would be the actor who played Barristan Selma in Game of Thrones. He parted on poor terms with the show because he had read ASOIAF and loved the book, and hated how they did the show.

stoic hamlet
#

The only ODST’s John explicitly fights with are the first squad in T&R, and the two squads that assault the beach in Silent Cartographer. Everyone else is a regular marine.

#

And the book directly calls it out, from memory.

wintry sleet
#

Quick question - sorry to jump into the conversation - just wanna know if Spartans get scars after their augmentations. ik the chief had some intricate augmentation scars in the show but it isnt exactly cannon so I wanna if it its canon in other aspects
Just trying to draw my spartan oc and I wanna be ‘accurate’

stoic hamlet
#

We see some in one of the Halo 4 trailers, I believe? Or the intro? I can’t recall which.

Mind you, they’d fade over time, of course.

#

But they’d have tons of them.

wintry sleet
#

Do they get their bone augmentations... In their 20s?

stoic hamlet
#

When they were teens for the II’s/preteens, for the III’s.

#

It’s all done at once.

#

Well, over a few days, but it’s just one “session”.

wintry sleet
#

How do they keep growing taller if the bone augmentations are already done, or am I missing smthn

orchid kettle
#

At this point UNSC medicine is probably so advanced that they just rub some medigel on the scars and you're good as new

wintry sleet
stoic hamlet
#

They had puberty artificially induced.

But at least with the III’s it was more just a coating.

lavish jetty
# stoic hamlet Ahhhh, fair.

Yeah, Witwer's heavily involved with an upcoming project that'll be about Maul. Kind of hard not to be excited knowing how passionate he is

stoic hamlet
#

Achieved the same effect, but somewhat less invasive (they had other, invasive surgeries though).

wintry sleet
lavish jetty
orchid kettle
stoic hamlet
# wintry sleet 6ft 11 at age 13 goes crazy💔

They wouldn’t be that tall. Most III’s at least seemed around upper 5’ feet when augmented.

They’re described (when 10-12) as looking like 15 year olds. Though that’s more their physical features, less their heights.

orchid kettle
stoic hamlet
#

The II’s are a bit odder.

wintry sleet
orchid kettle
#

The way I assume the IIs look is that they're stretched out, given the b0ne juice, and injected with the super muscle serum

#

but Mendez had them eating five square meals immediately after, which to me implied that the IIs probably had to bulk up afterwards

#

and that the muscle mass didn't just come from nowhere

wintry sleet
orchid kettle
#

for hyper charged puberty

lavish jetty
orchid kettle
#

IIIs had something that induced puberty early

wintry sleet
#

Speedrunning puberty💔

orchid kettle
#

but I don't think it was supposed to make them jumbo sized

#

otherwise Lucy wouldn't be 5'2"

#

unless she was 4'8" to begin with

#

except now apparently Lucy became taller than Lopis...?

stoic hamlet
lavish jetty
#

Lucy is the Tyrion Lannister of SPARTAN-IIIs

wintry sleet
#

teeny tiny spartan

lavish jetty
#

If he didn't have his smart mouth and instead had vocal disarticulation

stoic hamlet
#

She’s notably not the smallest either.

lavish jetty
#

what?? How

stoic hamlet
#

Just one of

#

She’s the smallest we know of, but not stated to be the smallest.

lavish jetty
#

I'd like to think something went wrong with the augmentations and they just didn't take or something

wintry sleet
#

Where's my 4ft 5 Spartans at 💕

stoic hamlet
#

As well, a point is made that the III’s (at least during TORPEDO) were considered smaller. The text points out they wouldn’t be able to effectively use the jackals energy gauntlets if they were taller/bigger.

#

You also have even adult Alpha Company members, like Hazel-A302, barely clear 6’2”, so overall the III’s are just smaller on average.

wintry sleet
#

6ft 2 and small in the same sentence frightens me

#

Well thx for answering my question y'all 💕

covert birch
wintry sleet
#

He's 6ft 11 out of armor…

covert birch
#

I was counting in armor

#

But 6’2 is still tiny compared to 6’11

wintry sleet
#

right

orchid kettle
#

Ngl I feel like I would like Spartan-IVs more if we didnt carry over the idea that they need to be seven feet tall

stoic hamlet
#

She’s small compared to most other Spartans.p that we know of.. For example, Mark, Ash, B-312, and Kat are all taller than her, at and around 6’4”-6’10” depending on the individual, despite the fact Mark and Ash weren’t born for another 20 years after her.

orchid kettle
#

It doesnt sound like it would really be all that helpful, especially if we're meant to believe that normal sized IIIs can still snap Elites in half with their bare hands

covert birch
#

I am not sure if they could do that….

wintry sleet
covert birch
wintry sleet
#

Im short. I need a spartan to relate to. You’ve caught me red handed.

covert birch
#

😏 HAH

lavish jetty
orchid kettle
lavish jetty
#

IVs became a saturated commodity AFTER the war, once we'd already made peace with most of the Sangheili

covert birch
lavish jetty
orchid kettle
#

Like in Bad Blood, Buck mentions how people usually gawk and are in awe of him whenever he's around, and that never felt like something I ever wanted to sit down and write about.

lavish jetty
stoic hamlet
lavish jetty
#

More armor too. More servos

stoic hamlet
#

There is a limit to how much armour is worthwhile for a mobility trade off.

wintry sleet
obsidian thistle
stoic hamlet
obsidian thistle
#

Doing what I love.

#

Recording the weird and wonderful

lavish jetty
orchid kettle
obsidian thistle
#

My team at Halopedia deserve the real love. 🙂 Not me aha

orchid kettle
#

I think at some point though it just bummed me out because I wanted my characters to have some end to their story that wasn't fighting until the end of time or dying horribly in some random battle

lavish jetty
covert birch
wintry sleet
orchid kettle
#

And Bad Blood really hammered that point home, that the only thing a Spartan has to look forward to is a body bag, ultimately

obsidian thistle
#

Stuff I enjoy.

wintry sleet
lavish jetty
#

Here's hoping you don't pull a Mickey

wintry sleet
#

Shhhh

obsidian thistle
#

I always find it so cool that "that" lore has roots to a marketing website that originally used the innie parents blowing themselves up to give a origin of Mickeys demo skillset.

#

Like Forbeck admitted he used that website

#

And I dont blame em

orchid kettle
#

I personally wasnt wild about it since it kinda ended up implying that Mickey's rebel blood overpowered the fact that rebels killed his friend

#

Of course the thing about Mickey's heel turn is that the Rookie's death didnt really have anything to do with it, and you're supposed to think he was just radicalized by that other guy in the same class

wintry sleet
orchid kettle
#

Like it makes plenty of sense that Mickey gets his first taste of human on human violence and wants no further part in any of it, seeing no greater, noble goal

#

Thats supposed to be why Mickey killing that one rebel himself bothers him so much

lavish jetty
orchid kettle
#

not because he "killed his own rebel kind" or whatever, but because he killed another person

obsidian thistle
#

To be a "lil" fair. Mickey did lie about remembering his parents in the pre-mission evals.

That fact alone was ignored by everyone involved in Alpha-9 and ONI.

orchid kettle
#

but then the story decided that Mickey needed to double down on human on human violence

#

he just needed to be on the "right" side

wintry sleet
#

Micky being shady aint surprising

orchid kettle
#

Which I feel like doesnt really trek

#

Like sure, he got radicalized by a guy offscreen

#

but thats the problem

#

this part of Mickey's journey was off screen

wintry sleet
lavish jetty
#

Like a SPARTAN version of Red Hood

orchid kettle
#

I think what makes the most sense if that he just retires like Dutch

#

The Covenant War is over after all

#

the "perfect war", the war that really did have the noble, grand cause of saving humanity

#

is over

lavish jetty
orchid kettle
#

and everything that follows will be too dirty, too complicated

wintry sleet
lavish jetty
#

It would have been interesting if his interest in the Insurrection LED to ||the Rookie's|| death.

#

Rather than happened after

wintry sleet
#

Gotta censor out ||rookie’s death|| 😭

lavish jetty
#

Some don't know LOL I dont wanna spoil too much..

orchid kettle
#

And Mickey himself doesnt seem to have any particular love for the UNSC like Buck does

#

there's no patriotism, the first half of his military career was mandatory for release from foster care

wintry sleet
#

That's one crazy foster care system

orchid kettle
#

If anything its weird how Halo goes out of its way to avoid ever stating that there was a draft

#

Best we got is a flyer in a Halo 2 map, and Dutch's old waypoint video backstory that has since been delisted from the Halo channel's account

wintry sleet
#

Where's all the protests against the draft, halo? 🧐

lavish jetty
orchid kettle
#

I always kinda figured you could get out of serving the UNSC by instead joining up with your planet's local defense force

#

which is something that's been mentioned a handful of times

#

mainly in how its apparently a valid source for Spartan-IV recruits

covert birch
#

Yeah we should start a cult about why they should fight against the draft

orchid kettle
#

at least, certain planetary defense forces

wintry sleet
lavish jetty
#

In some way

orchid kettle
#

Well every colony and their governor is UEG-approved I guess

lavish jetty
#

Yeah. And ONI's the deep-state

wintry sleet
#

Do y'all think people from Earth have their own rude name about people not born on earth

lavish jetty
orchid kettle
#

at the very least Im sure its more palatable to the common man that they can sign up for a posting that keeps them at home instead of defending Earth or some other colony they've never heard of before

lavish jetty
#

Colonists 😏

#

Fourth world Colonists

orchid kettle
wintry sleet
#

“Yer one of them…” is so funny 😭

lavish jetty
#

Too real tbh

lavish jetty
orchid kettle
#

which is why I argue it was kind of a mistake to make Buck's homeworld an outer colony, because he totally reads as this Earth-obsessed meathead

lavish jetty
#

Unless you're an "Outie"

#

Then you're ripe for alien-led genocide

wintry sleet
orchid kettle
#

Like in new blood and bad blood, Buck is baffled by the perspective of the outer colonists who want independence and have any sort of beef with the UEG

#

but like-- he grew up on an outer colony

#

itd be like growing up in the rural south and having no idea what the civil war was

wintry sleet
#

Retcons in my halo books? Smh

lavish jetty
#

I mean.. Literally

wintry sleet
lavish jetty
#

Buck probably views the UNSC as the only hope, and that breaking away from the UEG for independence weakens and dooms everybody; foremost themselves.

orchid kettle
#

Well thats whats even weirder

lavish jetty
#

It tracks, because his world got it real bad

orchid kettle
#

Buck doesnt really have any arguments like that

lavish jetty
#

And he should, right

orchid kettle
#

Like he never engages on those terms, he mainly just tells people to frick off

#

again-- he just feels like a meathead

wintry sleet
lavish jetty
#

Good writing can't always be plentiful

#

So it seems

wintry sleet
#

Sigh

orchid kettle
#

I think its mainly because characters legitimately debating each other about the merits and ethics of colonalism starts feeling too real

#

So like, Buck hates Innies because they bomb people, and he cant ever really have an issue with their philosphy or anything

lavish jetty
#

If I was writing it, that's what I'd want

wintry sleet
#

gosh forbid I want to relate to my fictional halo characters
But I get these books are for younger readers

lavish jetty
#

I'd want it to feel too real. Always

lavish jetty
orchid kettle
#

I also personally feel like the Insurrection should be old news after the human covenant war

#

the surviving outer colonies originally believed to have been destroyed have basically been given a free pass to rule themselves

#

which is how we got so many independent worlds now

lavish jetty
#

I think they should become a brief forefront issue that just gets smited on the whole

orchid kettle
#

because the UNSC just cant exert control over every last rock

wintry sleet
#

too much dollars wasted 😔

orchid kettle
#

so like-- why would the innies even try to rock the boat like the NCA do

#

in a way theyve basically won

wintry sleet
#

Like atp just chill out and stay in yer own lane dawg

lavish jetty
#

Until 'the Empire' arrives

lavish jetty
orchid kettle
#

To me it makes way more sense to shift to Sapien Sunrise as our new group of human extremists who are embedded within the UNSC and local population

#

and if anything its kinda weird how super accepting every UNSC main character is about working with Elites

lavish jetty
#

People who see the rot from the inside, and revolt from the inside?

orchid kettle
#

Arby killed billions by his own account but everyone is fine

lavish jetty
#

Interesting idea for sure

wintry sleet
orchid kettle
#

Thats not to say that I think its right of course to pick fights with Arby and his gang

empty bloom
orchid kettle
#

I just think its weird that there's apparently no short-sighted, angry people left in the UNSC

lavish jetty
empty bloom
#

Oh and someone gave it a funky space glock too

wintry sleet
lavish jetty
#

They're slaves. You'd be suprised how fierce they can be

empty bloom
wintry sleet
empty bloom
#

Considering in the Meridian missions he is basically in total agreement or at least understanding whenever Tanaka or a Glass technician speaks.

orchid kettle
#

Well to be fair to ODST I dont think Buck's homeworld was listed until Waypoint listed it way later

empty bloom
#

One of the dialogues that occurs has both Buck and Tanaka flabbergasted at Vale's ignorance about how crappy it is to be a colonist.

orchid kettle
#

I honestly think in ODST he was supposed to just be another lad from Sol like basically every other major character besides Romeo and Chief

empty bloom
#

And like-Honestly, compared to Buck, Tanaka was practically outie royalty-she was bound to be the hieress to an industrial complex company, had the Covenant not killed everyone involved.

wintry sleet
#

Girl had it so good only to become a spartan

empty bloom
#

There's a reason she's my fave.

lavish jetty
#

That's a cool backstory

empty bloom
#

Yeah, she survived several years in a glassing winter-hunting and such-then once the UNSC rescued her she immediately joined the UNSC Army as a Combat Engineer, then proved she could hang with ODSTs and do their job just as well.

#

Cool backstory.

wintry sleet
orchid kettle
empty bloom
orchid kettle
#

with the axises being like, how they feel about Earth vs Colonies, and how they feel about Humans vs Aliens

empty bloom
#

Like, beyond basic, basic notes.

wintry sleet
orchid kettle
lavish jetty
#

On the Buck topic, I think him being an Outie makes sense. I think his world's gruesome fate as feeding grounds makes sense. But @orchid kettle is right to point out the confusing inconsistencies with Buck's disposition towards the UEG and Outer colonists. I'd add only this: once you lose your whole world, your whole family; but you're still a soldier - you dedicate yourself to the cause. He doesn't want to empathize with a viewpoint that clashes against that of the only family he has left, and he stays a meathead because it's too painful to think critically with his family in mind.

orchid kettle
#

Yeah, its not unreasonable in the broad strokes.

wintry sleet
empty bloom
#

Locke is an interesting case of bucking a trend. He was born on the same world as Noble Six, orphaned around the same age, and was noted to be competent.

He likely didn't get snapped up for the III program, however, because unlike most kids, he blamed the UNSC for the incident, rather than hating the Covenant.

orchid kettle
#

Like I said though, I think the main way it doesnt fit is when Buck sneers at Romeo for being 'one of those colony kids"

#

which feels really weird to say if he, himself, was a colony kid

wintry sleet
empty bloom
#

I also think Buck's spent so long fighting against native Earth types that some of the attitude may have rubbed off on him.

#

At least, that's how I'd take that.

#

Like he's treating Romeo as being naive of Solan culture.

lavish jetty
#

But exploring Locke's internalized guilt following H5 would be cool right now

wintry sleet
#

We love it when halo characters actually have character development (difficulty: rare)

empty bloom
#

Oh, reactionary brain saw and didn't think.

#

Yeah, looking at Locke through that lens-I don't think he was gaslit, though. I think it was more, after ONI hired him after his contract killer days, he turned over a leaf and likely grew to appreciate the more competent and strict environment he found himself in.

lavish jetty
empty bloom
#

Because he basically traded bars for stars and killed for ONI due to it.

#

Buck, if I were to characterize him, is someone who plays dumb, but is way smarter than he gives himself credit for.

lavish jetty
#

That would be cool; if true.

#

I love that angle

empty bloom
#

He talks like he's an idiot but he's underselling it because he's just a dumb grunt, in his head. I've known plenty of guys like that.

wintry sleet
lavish jetty
#

There's a lot of little clean-ups the universe could benefit from. This is a great example of one

empty bloom
#

Each of the characters on Osiris has some major change that occurs over their short expansion in canon that I find amusingly unnoticed.

orchid kettle
#

But then New Blood came along and told us that their entire relationship was just a one week bang fest, which creates this sense that Dare only really liked him physically, and all the brain cells get sucked out of his head

covert birch
#

I hate to ruin your conversation but in legendary BUCK SUCKS ESPECIALLY IN THE LAST MISSION

orchid kettle
#

and I guess he's just the simple himbo that Dare the ice queen needs to thaw her heart, or whatever they were going for there

wintry sleet
empty bloom
#

Locke went from being a UEG-hating colonial kid who wasn't loyal enough to become a III (Because let's face it, a kid who goes straight to hunting other people down for money after getting orphaned is someone with the rage and drive for the program), who eventually realized that serving with and under a system had a better reward and slowly became a patriot due to it.

Vale went from being a coddled, rich Colonial immigrant/refugee to Earth who specialized in linguistics and politics, who found herself on the wrong end of Forerunner magic and survived-becoming a Spartan instead of a diplomat, because of happenstance, and still wrestling with the fact she didn't really have the toolset to manage actual soldiers, despite being a competent supersoldier herself, resulting in her learning a lot of painful lessons very quickly.

Tanaka was the hieress engineer-prodigy of a wealthy outer colonist who had her family killed and her future ripped out from under her, and suffers from so much social stress as a person that she was the one Locke knew the least about as of Halo 5-just because of PTSD from her combined experiences as a soldier and as a survivor. She still ended up being a Spartan, and yet she can't let the past go enough to move on. She was started to have her ice broken as of 5, but with the events of Infinite, that's been reduced to a limbo of unknowns.

ionic tiger
#

Fred x Veta is the real romance I’m here for.

wintry sleet
ionic tiger
#

Fred sled is goated what can I say

orchid kettle
#

I dunno what it was but Forbeck hated these established couples

ionic tiger
#

The Peter-MJ effect

empty bloom
orchid kettle
#

Or perhaps to be fair to him-- corporate mandate dictated that love needed to take a backseat to making the characters part of the Spartan protagonist class

wintry sleet
covert birch
#

Hi guys what did I miss

ionic tiger
empty bloom
#

I actually really, really hate the lore detail of Vale being an almost-II's kid.

wintry sleet
empty bloom
#

Like, not enough for it to be a huge complaint, but I really just do not like it at all.

orchid kettle
#

Yeah it didnt really clarify anything about her character

#

unless you were really hung up on her like, being good at combat or whatever

#

but, you know, who cares

empty bloom
#

Even then it's back to that skeevy eugenics crap Halo does way too freaking often.

#

Cuz she's good at killing cause her dad would've been or some crap?

lavish jetty
#

Completely ridiculous

#

Just a shoe-horned moment

ionic tiger
#

Her dad was psychic not necessarily good at combat duh

orchid kettle
#

Thats why Ive always argued that Rion Forge works as the child of an established character because her dad being a missing war hero who's actually dead is basically her entire character

covert birch
orchid kettle
#

While for Vale-- it feels like simple trivia

wintry sleet
empty bloom
#

I actually find it very amusing that normal Halo lore conversations seem to be complaining about how bad X game's story was, meanwhile actual serious lorenerd discussions tend to be things like "Why Halo has such a weird focus on eugenics for a game that shouldn't have it" or "The Mantle is actually the White Man's Burden in space"

#

It's very cathartic in a lorenerd way.

#

Warms my shriveled dead heart.

wintry sleet
orchid kettle
#

if you needed it re-shriveled just visit r/halostory

lavish jetty
ionic tiger
#

Vale in and of herself isn’t a bad character. But she is shoehorned in an odd space she didn’t need to ve in.

orchid kettle
#

where the top thread is the ten billionth topic about how OP thinks the UNSC should have laser weapons

empty bloom
#

I was talking with EtCanadian about it in DMs but there's been like three threads about it in the past 48 hours.

wintry sleet
empty bloom
lavish jetty
empty bloom
#

Like, the second game is literally about the dangers of insane organized religion.

lavish jetty
#

I don't know Warhammer lore

ionic tiger
#

I think something got lost along the way when forums fell out of
Favor for places like Reddit. The further away we get from Waypoint and Bungie.net the worse overall convos got.

empty bloom
#

Generally wanting everything to be crappy and horrible for everyone all the time.

lavish jetty
wintry sleet
orchid kettle
#

but not in like a

empty bloom
#

Yeah but I don't think you're the type to think that writing a first person persective of a guy getting servitorized is a good look, y'know?

orchid kettle
#

"oh man, if only we killed all people who dont look like me, all my problems would be solved!" kind of way

empty bloom
#

Half the reason I go on the warpath against those types is because I know exactly what they're asking for.

#

They're upset there isn't a Death Korps of Krieg in Afrika Corps colors in Halo and like, dude, you are not as clever as you think you are when you ask for this.

wintry sleet
#

Their wants:
Halo 4 cortana
Sameness

lavish jetty
empty bloom
ionic tiger
lavish jetty
orchid kettle
wintry sleet
empty bloom
wintry sleet
empty bloom
#

I know it won't embed, because I was a naughty bird.

#

But still.

#

Grob advert.

ionic tiger
wintry sleet
orchid kettle
#

The cheeseburger button comes with a disclaimer that there is no actual beef or dairy product included, only cheese and meat substitute.

#

and it dispenses the same gray sludge.

empty bloom
wintry sleet
#

No wonder why these halo characters are not-so-bright
Its the sludge…. That's my game theory

lavish jetty
#

No wonder I like the Flood so much. They're just nihilism

empty bloom
#

That and the explanation behind Vettel's garish armor color choice

ionic tiger
wintry sleet
empty bloom
#

Like, Spartans make the most sense to me as people who just don't know the meaning of the words 'quit' or 'fail', the type who would pour liquor into a computer rather than lose to it at chess and would rather set fire to the last things keeping them alive than lose, and do so with a smile on their face and fire in their heart.

#

Determination and stubborn, obstinate refusal to back down or quit, backed with a moral code just as resolute.

wintry sleet
#

Never back down never what!
Never give up

ionic tiger
#

I get your meaning even if the examples are a bit hyperbolic lol.

They are hypercritical of themselves because there is that expectation. I think each class all have it to an extent from Chief still blaming himself for Sam’s death to Stone’s own criticism of herself.

empty bloom
#

I like my hyperbole when I'm the one doing it, lmao.

empty bloom
#

Like, the guy's resolve to keep fighting still survived that, he just needed to step back as a leader for a bit.

#

... Or maybe not. It's weird to rank like that, eh.

orchid kettle
#

I think what doesnt help is that we didnt really have IVs as proper protags for a while in the books after Majestic in Spartan Ops

lavish jetty
#

SPARTANs, particularly the IIs and IIIs; are heavily indoctrinated - while the IIs' indoctrination has an even stronger vice grip on them due to them being picked up without trauma aside from their kidnapping itself. IIIs were already messed up in the head, Ackerson and ONI took advantage of that and pointed them in the direction of those that ruined their lives; calling it choice. Sending them on suicide missions, they were expendable companies - arguably worse.

The IVs should have a lot more individualized character, and seemingly; they do. I like that

orchid kettle
#

and they never had their Fall of Reach/Ghosts of Onyx, really

#

Information about them was just kinda distributed evenly across all media over time

wintry sleet
lavish jetty
empty bloom
#

The IVs have potential (and have utilized that potential) to be incredibly varied people with incredibly varied mindsets, but for the most part they're also going to end up being your most absurdly dedicated troops. They are delibrate and driven in a way that you cannot synthesize or force.

#

Like, a II or a III was forced into it, and a IV is there strictly because they want to be there.

orchid kettle
#

Yeah Rubicon/Infinite is their literal Fall of Reach moment, but I also just mean like getting a book that serves as their definitive introduction

lavish jetty
#

IIs and IIIs want to be there because it's all they know; or they die before they start thinking for themselves.

wintry sleet
lavish jetty
#

IVs are the pool you might find Banished SPARTANs taken from most often

orchid kettle
#

nah honestly I never vibed with Banished Spartans

empty bloom
orchid kettle
#

especially when we just have Janissaries now

steady hill
#

hey was odst after halo 3 or before?

orchid kettle
#

before

lavish jetty
wintry sleet
empty bloom
#

Otherwise there are no Banished Spartans.

orchid kettle
#

My issue with Banished Spartans is that the Spartans, like Trench said, are people who believe in their convictions more than anything else

#

but the whole point of the Banished is like

lavish jetty
orchid kettle
#

"Stop having convictions, they're getting in the way of getting more MONEY!"

wintry sleet
empty bloom
#

Literally every single IV traitor that has ever existed aside from Zane explicitly only went traitor because they were fighting humans or could be construed as hating the fact they were fighting for aliens rather than against them.

orchid kettle
#

They're purely about enriching themselves

lavish jetty
orchid kettle
#

and I think your average IV is just too self-sacrificing to even consider that

wintry sleet
lavish jetty
#

Some carry-over, sure; but they're more like a massive Mob

orchid kettle
#

Like at least with Innie Spartan-IVs, they see themselves as championing the underdog, fighting against injustice

#

They're not in it for the money, if there is any

empty bloom
#

Mickey? Traitor cause fighting humans, Scruggs, went traitor on an op fighting to protect aliens.

lavish jetty
orchid kettle
#

Like even Scruggs, for as evil as he's portrayed, starts his fight with palmer by trying to convince her of his viewpoint'

#

which you'd think he wouldnt do if he was just a hired gun

empty bloom
#

Considering how gruesome IV augs actively are, that'd be a hell of a thing to fight through just to try greasing one Spartan Commander and botching one op.

lavish jetty
#

I always presumed they had the least invasive procedures..

#

Guess I'm wrong there

orchid kettle
#

If anything its more extreme

empty bloom
orchid kettle
#

Its a lot of scooping out your innards and replacing it with better, lab-grown alternatives

lavish jetty
empty bloom
#

They don't even have a name for what replaces your pancreas.

wintry sleet
orchid kettle
#

I think the best way to think about it is the IIs and IIIs have been genetically augmented to be huge and ripped and durable

ionic tiger
#

Which makes sense since the IIs I guess were able to more or less grow with their changes. The IVs were more static being grown adults.

wintry sleet
empty bloom
lavish jetty
#

So the IVs are surgically augmented?

empty bloom
orchid kettle
#

a IV probably had to undergo a normal limb lengthening surgery, had all their guts replaced, and needed to have their existing muscules augmented by whatever material the MJOLNIR GEN2 tech suit is made of

#

with titanium-A bones and MJOLNIR muscles, they're probably more cyborg than any other Spartan if you think about it

empty bloom
#

They have a literal intestinal bioreactor.

lavish jetty
#

Yeah, definitely. I was not aware of that at all honestly

ionic tiger
#

Good thing those bits aren’t hackable by AI

empty bloom
#

Like, a bioreactor, inside of their guts.

wintry sleet
empty bloom
#

Almost zero.

orchid kettle
#

As far as we've heard, basically none

lavish jetty
#

I thought that they just had some minor sci-fi magic applied that allowed them to get a bit taller and wear MJOLNIR

wintry sleet
#

Medical science really has gotten far

orchid kettle
#

the only ones who died were the ones in the Zane group who were supposed to be stronger so they didnt need MJOLNIR

empty bloom
#

UNSC tech that isn't military is actually kind of insane.

ionic tiger
#

Got 30 years of medicinal data to work with

fiery finch
#

What are we talking about?

orchid kettle
#

its very silly-- surely it would always be good to have a suit of armor

empty bloom
#

Like, the UNSC has real-time gore filters.

#

Crazy.

wintry sleet
#

Holy moly

empty bloom
#

Cancer is treated as an unpleasant minor inconvenience.

orchid kettle
#

I also think the reason why the IVs are so invasive and cyborg-y is because 343 is respecting this "rule" that genetic augmentations are more effective when you're young

empty bloom
#

Knock it out in an afternoon.

orchid kettle
#

if only because the Janissarries came along and revealed that somebody else is taking kids to try and replicate the IIs

empty bloom
lavish jetty
wintry sleet
#

Halo positive: Cancer being a boo-boo
Halo negative: fighting a massive unending alien army

orchid kettle
#

I dunno why that would be the case, but Im fine that that's the "rule" in this universe

empty bloom
lavish jetty
#

Are most of the IVs horribly wounded when they're approached?

orchid kettle
#

Are they?

#

Because I choose to believe James killed a fourteen year old

empty bloom
wintry sleet
empty bloom
#

And in the story that covered it she mentions seeing a bunch of people in the room as being around her age or slightly older.

covert birch
empty bloom
lavish jetty
#

Seems like a big risk otherwise.

empty bloom
#

Buck was in perfect condition when he was recruited, as was Locke.

orchid kettle
#

I assume if any Jannie is an adult at this point its because the program has been running longer than we've seen

#

because James knew those guys by name in 2559, and I feel like that implies theyve been around for a while

empty bloom
#

Still, 16 is older than the oldest augmented Spartan II or III.

orchid kettle
#

I assume its more so a spectrum of effectiveness

#

rather than like, the second you're 14 years and 1 day, they no longer work at all

empty bloom
#

I am glad they made it clear that Jannies don't actually hold up 1-1 with Spartans.

#

It checks out.

orchid kettle
#

Halsey also wanted to initially delay the augs in TFOR, but the UNSC pressured her into continuing because Harvest got got

empty bloom
#

I'd expect an Executor to do so, because they get Forerunner tech and such.

orchid kettle
#

so its probably not a hard time limit

#

it just happened when it did because Harvest sent the program into overdrive

empty bloom
#

I like to think Jannies are anywhere from 14 to 45 when they get augged with them mostly just swapping aug procedures slightly depending on what happens.

#

Because from how it sounds, most are forced into it as debt repayment.

#

Or at least an appreciable amount.

orchid kettle
#

I just want somebody to off a Jannie, not knowing what they are, only to find out they're a kid when they take the helmet off

#

but i fear that modern Halo does not have the balls

empty bloom
#

Honestly? Peak writing?

#

A IV doing it, realizing what they're fighting, and going on the absolute freaking warpath over it.

#

Making it their life's mission to destroy the people responsible.

orchid kettle
#

really the thing I like about Jannies and Executors, outside of the former being the only example of the Spartan Program's legacy being a negative force in the world, is this idea that our heroes may end up tussling with people who are effectively innocent themselves

empty bloom
#

Like, make it absolutely clear that it's something that's not just hated, it's passing a rubicon of hatred that you don't want a Spartan to cross.

wintry sleet
empty bloom
#

I could honestly see a IV taking that way harder than a II or a III.

orchid kettle
#

I still feel like Executors should have been Cortana's idea, or was something that was meant to be like a dark inverse of Chief and Cortana's working relationship, where instead of working together, the AI is in full control and the host is nothing more than a meat vehicle.

empty bloom
#

I actually strongly disagree with that.

#

Specifically because of Cortana's perspective on the Spartan IIs.

#

And her entire rant during The Breaking.

wintry sleet
orchid kettle
#

well i also want it to be Cortana's idea because being Sloan's thing feels too late in the timeline

#

my characters explode on zeta halo trench, I want them to fight a robo cop terminator once before they go

empty bloom
#

What I'd rather is that Sloan only starts doing it because Cortana isn't calling the shots anymore.

empty bloom
orchid kettle
#

at least, like I said, there's room for Jannies to be an established thing before Zeta

empty bloom
#

Right.

#

My issue with Executors under Cortana is more that she started her uprising specifically calling out the crappiness that was making the IIs in the first place. She likely hates the IVs because of them doing it voluntarily. So an Executor would fall under her definition of "Holy crap this is horrible I need to stop this" while the more morally lean Sloan would go "Cool, I get extra soldiers to protect Meridian".

#

So like, cool idea under Cortana, but her own moral set makes it something she'd likely disown an AI for doing.

vagrant ocean
stoic hamlet
#

By at least a month, though likely more.

#

Even ignoring the chronicle, the Janissaries were already active in October 2559.

vagrant ocean
#

And not all of them are kids, I’m sure there’s many volunteers

hardy swan
#

343 is so unoriginal

#

Jannies are basically Spartans but innies

empty bloom
vagrant ocean
#

Also what is this 343 you speak of.

ionic tiger
empty bloom
orchid kettle
#

It really only makes an iota of sense if you figure that the Banished just are the ruling body of Doisac

sleek vigil
hardy swan
vagrant ocean
versed helm
versed helm
#

but even so, the planet houses the species; the banished seem more nomadic

wispy pewter
#

Monke

minor sky
#

Well not like that would matter anymore given-

sour raven
#

Brutal

minor sky
#

Doisac blowing up is still a plot point I am very mixed on

#

I feel like it only happened because 343i needed a reason to explain why the Banished went all "Humanity will burn"

carmine sleet
# vagrant ocean It was an inevitability dude.

Aye, when a government is producing super soldiers, private companies and organisations that are at odds with the government are gonna want to copy and create their own to make sure they can still put up a fight

carmine sleet
empty bloom
#

Well, stupid. It's stupid.

dense falcon
#

So why did two MAC blasts fail to take down a Covenant Corvette, but a salvo of surface-to-air missiles managed to do the job?

empty bloom
#

Reach dude, don't question it

versed helm
#

because an act like that actually cements her as the villain

#

for her to just disappear after that is odd

#

feels like a pointless action of destruction at that point

carmine sleet
#

Some sort of remnant of the Created forces she would've had with her on Zeta would've been nice to face off against

versed helm
#

better writing could have made what she did fit the story better, or had the logic to not include such an act

versed helm
carmine sleet
#

Like Prometheans who are now basically leaderless now Cortana is gone or even an AI she was aligned with now taking charge of local Created forces for their own schemes now that Cortana is gone

versed helm
#

but i suppose that all doesnt exist the moment cortana "dies"

#

otherwise yeah where'd it all go

#

that just makes no sense

carmine sleet
#

Nothing has said they all disappeared last I checked

#

My hope is that there's a contingent of Prometheans hiding out in the crashed Guardian

versed helm
#

if they arent present in the game they may as well not exist

#

not even a mention of them

#

no ODSTs in infinite was strange too

carmine sleet
carmine sleet
orchid kettle
#

It probably wouldn't have been that hard to just pull a Reach and slap the ODST multiplayer armor parts on the existing Marine model

#

I think they just decided that they didn't wanna figure out how ODST's would even fit in the whole valor unlock system

versed helm
#

i wanna see it

orchid kettle
#

and maybe it would have created false expectations for the player if like an unlock that turned Marines into ODSTs across the board existed, but there wasn't really any major gameplay difference

versed helm
orchid kettle
#

because as much as I love ODSTs-- they're not super necessary because, as is, there's not enough reason to think they'd actually differ from Marine companions at all

versed helm
#

they should exist at least

orchid kettle
#

Apparently Halo 5 was gonna have ODSTs as upgrades you could get for the Warzone Marines that stayed and defended your base

versed helm
#

ODSTs fighting alongside IVs wouldve been cool

orchid kettle
#

but I have no clue how they were upgrades

#

Im the biggest Spartan hater but I do admit that Spartan-IV NPCs work a lot better as "enhanced Marines" in a gameplay sense, since players can just see with their eyes that they have regenerating shields.

versed helm
#

seeing drop pods every now and then wouldve been a cool nod at least

orchid kettle
#

well in the case of Infinite there's no ship to drop those pods.

versed helm
#

you mean to tell me the largest UNSC ship ever has no ODSTs and a drop pod bay on it?

#

i wouldve expected them to be dropping alongside or before the SPARTANs on the MIRVs in Rubicon Protocol

#

could imagine them dropping onto the part of the ring where cortana was then being blown away along with it

orchid kettle
#

All the ships were shot down in Infinite

carmine sleet
orchid kettle
#

like that's the whole gimmick-- the UNSC lost six months ago

versed helm
#

a drop pod is a smaller, faster transport than even the MIRVs; better chance of getting boots on the ground when the Banished is shooting you out of the air like clay pigeons

#

the Infinity was going down, it was doomed; shoot down your helljumpers first

carmine sleet
#

I think the priority would've been getting all important personel off the ship first, not the shock troopers

versed helm
carmine sleet
#

I do understand that. That's not what I was disagreeing with

versed helm
#

just fire them down to the surface right away, try to establish a safe zone for your people to link up or ambush the surface while all the fighting is in space

#

it makes too much sense to not do it

carmine sleet
#

I'm just saying that if you're on a ship that is being actively boarded, you want to get the important people (Such as the naval staff who have sensitive information you don't want to fall into enemy hands) off to ensure they don't die or get captured by the enemy

versed helm
#

if it's all going down you may as well use them

versed helm
#

but the drop pods can be tactically useful

#

there's no other time to use them than now

carmine sleet
#

Why would you execute your own people? It's weird you're suggesting that the marines should kill the important people when their ship is being boarded

versed helm
#

doesnt it make sense to send them down

versed helm
#

you attempt to get away first, execution is a last resort

orchid kettle
#

The UNSC to begin with kinda has this issue where it doesn't seem like they really have enough ways to actually evacuate everybody on a ship in a timely manner

#

like say you got hundreds of people on a frigate

#

sure the odsts can all take a pod down, saving the pelicans and bumblebees for the rest

carmine sleet
orchid kettle
#

but how many of those do you need for everybody else

#

probably a lot more than a frigate actually holds

versed helm
#

almost seems like we're talking about 2-3 different things

versed helm
#

last resort

carmine sleet
#

My dude, you're suggesting they have a kill the commanders plan for evacuations

versed helm
#

My dude, I'm suggesting they have a contingency in place when faced with VIP capture

#

would you not consider having someone there to take lasky's life if he was surely going to be captured by the banished?

#

it seems as though he made it away, what little we found out

#

but what if you wound up surrounded, boarding parties on the escape shuttle in overwhelming numbers?

#

you let them take him? or do you kill him

#

@carmine sleet you tell me

#

dont fight to the last, fight to the second-to-last

vagrant ocean
orchid kettle
#

Nah these days the UNSC are too soft for that

vagrant ocean
#

Executing your CO is the worst idea ever.

orchid kettle
#

They would just tough things out until Chief saved them

#

I think also chances are Lasky and Halsey and basically every important character fell through a teleporter like Chief did and just got flung into the future

vagrant ocean
#

Unless he’s a traitor, there isn’t really a reason to put a .50 slug in his head.

orchid kettle
#

Or something that explains their absence but still allows their eventual return

vagrant ocean
orchid kettle
#

I think the only issue with that is that the Infinite play area feeeeels like where most of the survivors are gathered

#

if for perhaps no other reason than because supposedly every prisoner must be cycled through The Tower

carmine sleet
#

I just saw it as the main one used in the area we play in

vagrant ocean
versed helm
#

lasky becomes a prisoner of the banished

carmine sleet
#

I assume there's other Towers with different Banished commanders scattered across Zeta since it's a modular building the Banished utilise

versed helm
#

banished then have a powerful hostage control situation

#

not to mention torture could bring information out of him

orchid kettle
carmine sleet
orchid kettle
#

and The Tower could handle the scraps that remain

vagrant ocean
versed helm
versed helm
#

im not sure i would

#

ackerson saved a lot of lives with what he did

carmine sleet
vagrant ocean
vagrant ocean
carmine sleet
#

Which is what most COs would be doing in that situation