lore-and-universe

[orchid kettle]

and he guilty sparks all over the place

[dusk jetty]

So, storywise, yes 09 would’ve been better, but for expanding the story, zeta is the better option

[vagrant ocean]

And then I smash my MEGA model of him and feel guilty.

[carmine sleet]

Zeta Halo was never a willing home of ancient humanity, it was more like a prison for the ancient humans there

[vagrant ocean]

Eh,

[carmine sleet]

And well... It made it real easy for a certain Didact to get new "recruits" for his Prometheans

[vagrant ocean]

Earth is a sort of prison.

[carmine sleet]

Humanity originates from Earth

[orchid kettle]

i still find it funny how that's supposed to be up in the air

as if we don't share DNA with all the animal life on Earth

[carmine sleet]

Yeah

So like Nick Fury in Avengers ignoring the council, I choose to ignore the idea humanity is somehow not native to Earth

[vagrant ocean]

Erde Tyrene has always been our home.

[dusk jetty]

Well it’s certainly implied ancient humanity did come from earth

[carmine sleet]

Erde Tyrene is Earth

[dusk jetty]

It’s just not confirmed because the timeline is skewey in comparison to irl

[carmine sleet]

We're on Erde Tyrene right now

[orchid kettle]

I honestly wonder if fossils even exist in Halo

[carmine sleet]

Pretty sure they do

[stoic hamlet]

Is Erde Tyrene in the room with us?

[orchid kettle]

like homo sapiens sapiens existed before Ancient Humanity, because we were "devolved"

then why don't we have fossil evidence of this super old previous generation of homo sapien sapiens

[carmine sleet]

https://tenor.com/view/spider-man-spider-verse-facepalm-miguel-o'hara-spider-man-2099-gif-1095378466475493525

[vagrant ocean]

Well, they resembled us. The Human Empire was comprised of all Human species.

[stoic hamlet]

Saying it happened only 100,000 years ago is really where the issue arises.

Like, that sounds like a long time to us, but it’s not even a blip on the radar.

[dusk jetty]

More than 97,000 BCE was when the rings accordingly fired, 97,000 BCE in human history is roughly when we began to migrate outside of the Horn of Africa

[orchid kettle]

or really for that matter, why don't we have fossil evidence of these gigachad nine feet tall super humans

[vagrant ocean]

Keep in mind our ancient empire forgot our home,

[carmine sleet]

Cough Government coverups Cough

[vagrant ocean]

So it makes sense for there to not be much left.

[dusk jetty]

*roughly when sapiens migrated out of Africa, Neanderthals and other species had long since dispersed

[orchid kettle]

muh librarian geas altered my perception of reality so the fossils are just invisible to us

[vagrant ocean]

There’s also the Ecumene going out of their way to try and sterilize all traces of our glory.

[carmine sleet]

https://tenor.com/view/the-truth-is-out-there-xfiles-i-want-to-believe-stay-woke-believe-gif-4861962

[orchid kettle]

god i hate the ancient side of the lore

[vagrant ocean]

Though I’m sure the secret Xeno-Materials Exploitation Group in the US Navy’s ONI knows what’s up.

[stoic hamlet]

Same. It’s never appealed to me.

[vagrant ocean]

I vibe with it.

[stoic hamlet]

Except in like, the broadest strokes.

[vagrant ocean]

It produces sick art.

[carmine sleet]

Aye, I prefer the stuff set in the modern day over the ancient stuff

[stoic hamlet]

I just think other franchises do it better.

[orchid kettle]

I imagine the idea is to be like this greek myth with these flawed godlike figures experiencing the downfall of their culture and people

but the librarian is icky and the didact is boring to me

[vagrant ocean]

The Librarian is a baddie

[carmine sleet]

It's why a game set in the Forerunner-Flood War doesn't appeal to me, it just feels unneeded

[vagrant ocean]

But I want it.

[orchid kettle]

i also feel like its kinda lame that the thing that pisses off the Flood wasn't even really done by anybody contemporary

like the story feels like it wants to be character focused but I don't feel like that meshes with the universe's greatest threat being the result of something somebody else did a billion years ago

if our characters aren't implicated, if they aren't ultimately responsible, who even really cares

it just feels like they wanted to hint at even more ancient lore and history

but like-- this is the ancient lore of the franchise

the buck has to stop somewhere

[vagrant ocean]

This feels like a complaint unique to Halo.

[orchid kettle]

Halo I think is really the only scifi story I can think of that pulls back the layers on its ancient alien mystery to this extent

[vagrant ocean]

Star Wars?

[dusk jetty]

Halo has the unique story of Inheritance being a central tenet in it

[orchid kettle]

and it always felt like too much

too many explanations that make everything seem less interesting rather than grander

[carmine sleet]

It's why I hope we don't get an explanation for the "Meddlers" who visited Alpha Halo. There's just no reason to explain it

[orchid kettle]

not just because like, mystery will always be intriguing, but also because its just lame when you learn something like "Oh the Halo's have landscapes and life on them because it was a cynical ploy the Builders to appease the Life workers, there's really no other reason besides aesthetics."

[dusk jetty]

That’s because there’s always a crowd who wants everything to be practical and have a reason

Which to be completely fair is usually an indicator of good world building

[orchid kettle]

Human Weakness implied the Gravemind may be the way it is because it sees itself as the savior of life? The only one who's able to preserve everyone's thoughts and memories by absorbing them, creating in a way a fleshy physical Heaven?

Nah, the Flood are just angry because of something somebody we never knew did, and it just wants to torture people.

Cool. That's totally more fun to think about than the alternative.

Before, when it wasn't clear what the Flood's origins were, I always liked the idea that they were a naturally occuring parasite that was just too good at its job

And that like, one day, the parasite infects a sapient host, and by doing so, is inudated with a deep, visceral fear of death

[carmine sleet]

Honestly yeah, it would've been fine as just that

[orchid kettle]

This also just feels thematically appropriate for the characters of the Forerunner Saga that like, for all of their power, they could never truly control nature or life

When as is-- they're beaten by a vengeful god

[orchid kettle]

The thing about chasing practicality above all else is that I think you need to remember that the world ultimately exists as part of the story, and the story should ideally be saying something

which is my beef with the Forerunner Saga since half the time it feels like the explanations are just there to patch over contradictions instead of focusing on having those explanations further the thematic goals of the story

Like Bornstellar getting injected full of Didact juice and everybody treating him as if he's just another Didact is really interesting from like, the angle of identity and adulthood and how older generations may be trying to literally turn the young into a version of themselves

but then after a while you realize that this element only really existed because they needed to explain how Didact could both be the guy activating the rings and then also be an evil guy sealed away before the rings fired

Because nobody ever makes a duplicate of themselves in that fashion again

Or seemingly before, as its not like there was a Didact before the Didact

which ironically would help fix the problem I had about the forerunners of "today" having nothing to do with the Forerunners who pissed off the Precursors

if you literally had an unbroken line of Didacts, Librarians, and Master Builders stretching all the way back to those events

and those "characters" effectively still existed

[ionic tiger]

I wonder if the original plan was to explore something close to idea.

I say that because the idea of the brevet mutation feels essentially like you are copying over one’s appearance, personality, and memories and imposing it on someone else. You even get their “voice” in your head like Bornstellar did.

So then when the Librarian messes with Chief it’s almost a very similar process and he even begins hearing the Didact in his head.

I don’t know. It feels like there was supposed to be a connection there before everything fell apart and we ended up getting whatever 5 and Infinite were.

Chief would be a “new” Didact as it were. Maybe eventually Halsey might’ve been a “new” Librarian since she would eventually meet her too.

But who knows

[fast heron]

How many marines join for 1 spartan to be made? If that makes sense

[empty bloom]

Several thousand, likely in the low hundred thousands.

[orchid kettle]

at least four

[high elbow]

That depends, but one spartan is usually three marines in a mjolnir trenchcoat

[fast heron]

That explains so many things, thank you

[hardy swan]

4 teacups of Marine

[fast heron]

Ah yes

[hardy swan]

2 tablespoons of titanium A

[stoic hamlet]

A dash of augmentations

[fast heron]

And a sprinkle of plot armor

[vagrant ocean]

But, Doctor Halsey accidentally introduced an extra ingredient into the concoction.

Mommy issues.

[sour raven]

https://tenor.com/view/chemical-chemicalx-professor-utonium-power-puff-girls-gif-13049325

[minor sky]

Maybe it's the past decade of Halo media speaking, but do any of you guys ever feel like everything other than the Spartans is the way more interesting part of the Halo universe?

[empty bloom]

Anything other than IIs and IIIs is interesting to me, really.

IIs and IIIs are typecast and rote. IVs have some interesting potential hooks that never really get utilized due to past criticism. Everything else is sparse, and thus new.

[thorn spindle]

i rlly like 3s bc having a mission with disposable spartans and them all dying would b pretty fun to play in game

[sour raven]

I find all halo lore interesting

[kindred kayak]

I think the best part of halo lore to me is what's still unknown

[minor sky]

Maybe it's just how the Spartans take up so much focus and a lot of their lore, backstories, and adventures are so widely covered and examined

Idk.

[kindred kayak]

The mystery of the endless, zeta halo, even some things about the forerunners still unclear, are the best parts imo

[minor sky]

These past few days I was looking at some Halo merch and kept thinking about the lack of stuff like Marines or Covies. And that got me thinking about the wider series

Kind of reminds me of how I used to think the "Underworld" aspect of Star Wars was more interesting than Jedi stuff

Also this kind of gets at another thing I have about Spartans being more effective when there are so few.

Effective to the narrative/worldbuilding, not in terms of competence to be specific

[hardy swan]

Andor proved that Star Wars can be good without Jedi. So Halo can work the same

[minor sky]

HS/Microsoft let me make a gritty ODST centric Television series, pretty please.

[thorn spindle]

grittious gritty grit

[minor sky]

Grime

[thorn spindle]

the word gritty makes me insane i need to xen relax now

[minor sky]

Grainy

[minor sky]

Harsh

[thorn spindle]

GRITTYYY!!!! GRIT!! 😱 🙀

u need to grit the next gritty rememebr the grit, enable gritty very important

gritty halo (youtube essay)

[minor sky]

This actually makes me a little curious-
Not to run the risk of going off topic, but what Director or Directors do you think would handle Halo well?

[vagrant ocean]

Neil Blomkamp, Gareth Edwards, Christopher Nolan, James Gunn, Paul Verhoeven, Alex Garland, Sam Mendes, Peter Jackson, Ryuhei Kitamura, Hideki Anno, Shinji Higuchi, Takashi Yamazaki,

[minor sky]

Paul Verhoeven's Halo sounds absoultely insane

My personal pick would be Alex Garland

He is someone who could really sell the horror of the flood as well as the massive action setpieces Halo would require

If not him then maybe Dan Trachtenberg

[unique rune]

I think Garland wrote a script for a Halo movie years back and it was one of the worst things I’d ever read

[minor sky]

I thought it was fine

Maybe needed another draft or two but it had plenty of good moments. Albeit I didn't care for the sequel bait ending

[vagrant ocean]

Notice how I didn’t mention Paul Anderson.

[minor sky]

Paul Thomas Anderson or Paul W.S. Anderson

[vagrant ocean]

The latter.

[minor sky]

Just wanted to be clear

Two very different directors

[dusk jetty]

Alex could do Halo but I’d rather him not do a mainline adaptation

[minor sky]

Thats how I feel about Garreth Edwards

[vagrant ocean]

I mean, ideally all of these are just side stories.

[dusk jetty]

I’d prefer he stick with “higher” sci fi, so a forerunner and/or flood story would be my pick for him

[minor sky]

I think he could do it, but not HALO

[vagrant ocean]

Oh Edward’s doing Forerunners would be SICK.

[dusk jetty]

Now Garreth doing an actual mainline adaptation I think I’d be down for, to be honest

[minor sky]

Something like Fall of Reach

[vagrant ocean]

Same here literally did Rogue One, the second best Star Wars film.

[dusk jetty]

He does well with battle choreography as evidenced by rogue one

[minor sky]

There was another director I thought would be an awesome fit but I can't remember who specifically

[dusk jetty]

I’m excited for his Elden ring adaptation

[vagrant ocean]

Irving Kirchner would’ve also been great but he dead.

[dusk jetty]

It’s right up his alley

[minor sky]

Alex Garland's action scenes in Civil War were, regardless of if you liked that film or not, amazing

[vagrant ocean]

Great film. Maybe he could do a Contact Harvest style film.

[minor sky]

I think he could really sell a sequence like the opening to The Silent Cartographer

[vagrant ocean]

For those who don’t know, Blomkamp was the OG director for the planned Halo film.

And he did the Landfall series.

[minor sky]

Blomkamp would be a solid if not for a lot of his recent output being not so great

[vagrant ocean]

He also made District 9 which he said he made the film by reusing stuff he made for Halo.

[minor sky]

Not terrible

[dusk jetty]

Eh, Blokamp has lost steam

[vagrant ocean]

He needs to stick to scifi.

[dusk jetty]

District 9 was promising

[minor sky]

But not amazing

[vagrant ocean]

One of my favorites

[minor sky]

George Miller would maybe be a good pick.

[vagrant ocean]

If it weren’t for the fact he’s high off his own supply, James Cameron.

[dusk jetty]

I think a Villenueve adaptation of 2-3 would be would be my dream film

Not that CE has to be cut out but I think those two specifically by him would make me leap to the moon in joy

[vagrant ocean]

Ultimately due to the nature of the franchise a series would work best, but clearly not what we got.

I think if Ridley Scott did a 343 Guilty Spark short film it’d be sick.

[minor sky]

Granted I think Indiana Jones would be maybe a better fit for him. Though its obviously 30 years too late for that

[minor sky]

If not for his hit or miss quality, Ridley Scott would be up there

[dusk jetty]

Ridley gets lazy, I don’t think he’s hit or miss naturally

[minor sky]

granted, he did produce Nightfall. But no one remembers that show

[vagrant ocean]

Put some respect on Randall’s name.

[dusk jetty]

I think Ridley just started riding high and stopped trying after making things like Alien and Gladiator, which to be completely fair would be hard not to

[vagrant ocean]

Hear me out.

[hardy swan]

Peter Jackson Halo film when

[vagrant ocean]

An alternate timeline 20 years ago. And he’d be co-director.

[minor sky]

I'd compare it to a painter who is constantly making new pieces. Sometimes the painting is just "ok", maybe once in a while it's just bad. But then it comes together and they make a masterpiece

[vagrant ocean]

And ONI investigative drama, by executive producer Richard Wolf.

[dusk jetty]

Napoleon seemed like something he’d make but the recurring issue it had was it didn’t go where it should have

Seemed oddly wander-y for Ridley

Focusing on the wrong things for a film that caliber

[vagrant ocean]

Get the guy who did All Quiet on the Western Front.

Matt Reeves: The Halo

[minor sky]

I can't see Jackson doing Halo nowadays. The Hobbit took a ton of steam out of him. He didn't even plan on directing them before Del Torro dropped out, and then the studio demanded they'd be a trilogy. So it was a very demanding project for him that he wasn't really prepared for.
Its why he has stuck to Documentaries mainly as of late

[vagrant ocean]

And is killing it.

Also, Del Torro would do well with Halo.

[minor sky]

God willing we'll finally get a Tintin seqeul

someday

[vagrant ocean]

Yeah, the day we get an adaptation of the Silmarillion.

[minor sky]

Spielburg 20 years ago would be a good fit

[vagrant ocean]

Halo: the Cole Protocol directed by JJ Abrams.

[minor sky]

Hell he might make a good fit today

But he has really moved on from massive blockbuster films

It's why he turned down Indiana Jones 5

[vagrant ocean]

A found footage Halo film would go hard.

Jonathan Liebesman would be good.

As would Denis Villeneuve.

[minor sky]

I think Halo CE would work well as a movie. It's a fairly self-contained story that doesn't require almost any knowlage beforehand

[vagrant ocean]

They just gotta stick to the source material.

[minor sky]

You'd just have to trim some fat from it being a video game

Like what Garland did in his script

[vagrant ocean]

George Romero flood movie.

Michael Bay presents: Halo: the Fall of Reach.

[minor sky]

George Romero's Resident Evil not being made is one of cinema's great tragedies

[vagrant ocean]

Fr. Yeah, disrespect the man who is responsible for Resident Evil being a thing, that’s a great idea.

I can count on one hand how many Paul WS Anderson movies I like.

[minor sky]

Also I think Villenueve is the only director who could pull off Panzer Dragoon

Granted Panzer Dragoon Saga's narrative couldn't work as anything but a video game, so it'd have to be an adaptation of Zwei or the first game with a lot of story added

[vagrant ocean]

Villenueve would make a great post-war or ONI archaeology movie.

[minor sky]

I'd trust him with the Forerunner trilogy

[vagrant ocean]

He did AMAZING with Arrival.

[minor sky]

The Forerunner trilogy is a few steps down from being "impossible to adapt", but it would take a ton of care and attention to detail

And I think he would be able to make it work

Same reason I'd trust him with Panzer Dragoon

[vagrant ocean]

Edwards and Villenuveue tag team the trilogy.

[minor sky]

With Garland writing? Hell yeah

[vagrant ocean]

Oooooo

[minor sky]

Also- quick question, if you were adapting Halo 2 and 3 into films, would it be better to let Tartarus live at the end of Halo 2 to let the Brutes have more presence in 3?

This is a question I've asked myself in the context of the games because I've always felt the Brutes didn't do a ton in Halo 3 after being so important in Halo 2

Now granted that could be because Halo 3 didn't have a proper writer for a good while during development

But I wondered if Tartarus living and getting to show us more of the Brute's new place as top dog in the Covenant forces would've been good

[sleek vigil]

I don't think it'd, unless you bring in external media and orginal contributions. It could technically, but it'd be nothing but mindless action with no tangible stakes, and characters we wouldn't be able to get invested in.

[vagrant ocean]

So you’re saying Michael Bay should direct it.

[toxic mason]

NO

[minor sky]

I think Alex Garland's script did a solid job of balancing action, character, and plot

[carmine sleet]

Was that the script with Master Chief's evil brother?

[minor sky]

No?

i have no idea if you are being sarcastic or not

[carmine sleet]

One of the scripts for the cancelled Halo film had Master Chief's evil brother in it

Ok, just checked, that was the Del Toro script

[unique rune]

I might have to reread the Garland script to reevaluate it but I remember thinking like 95% of it was terrible and it frequently made me wonder if the Paramount show had bits of it still lingering in its soul

[minor sky]

I am increasingly convinced that Hollywood is incapable of getting Halo right/sj

[sour raven]

[versed salmon]

there was a script with MC having a brother?

Fanfiction doesn't count

[vagrant ocean]

Nightfall, Forward Unto Dawn.

Lowkey just give me Halo Legends 2.

[minor sky]

I was being sarcastic

Legends was pretty good, as was Forward Unto Dawn. Nightfall..... ehhhh

[stoic hamlet]

Nightfall was a victim of its kinda poor budget.

And some… irritating design choices.

It gave us the Condor shudder

[orchid kettle]

Nightfall felt like a rejected Riddick script that got retrofitted into being Halo

[empty bloom]

No humanoid aliens in Riddick.

[hardy swan]

they got some video game adaptations right

Fallout

[stoic hamlet]

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I mean technically.

But like… the NCR

;-;

And it’s not even the NCR. It’s the reason the NCR died.

It just completely misses the point of FO1/2/NV.

Arguably their best parts.

Fallout was never about petty grudges of the old world, it was always about the world moving on from the bombs, but getting caught up in its usual trappings.

It was post-post-apocalypse.

But the show (literally) nuked that for the West Coast.

[minor sky]

Not as big of a Fallout fan as I'd like to be to comment on this so the best I can say is that the series was pretty good on its own

[vagrant ocean]

I like the condor.

[dusk jetty]

War never changes. I think that quote describes what happened on the west coast well.

Man can change on the roads he walks, but not every man walks the same road

[last anchor]

Something sometihng Lonesome Road?

[dusk jetty]

Yea

I’d be surprised if lonesome road wasn’t at least referenced in season 2

[minor sky]

The Yohnet or whatever they're called feel like Babylon 5 background aliens

They stick out like a sore thumb when they're standing next to all the other species

(No disrespect to Babylon 5 intended. I love that show a ton)

[bronze prawn]

so what happened to the precursor star roads after destroying the greater ark ?

[unique rune]

Destroyed after the Halo array fired

[vagrant ocean]

Correct

[hardy swan]

They feel like a species the enterprise would come across in one episode

[wintry sleet]

quick question!!! Very silly!! Do spartan visors dim to show their face like ODST visors do?

[spark pivot]

probably

[wintry sleet]

I need a definite yes or no for my silly little drawing

[empty bloom]

Depends on the helmet, and it's depolarization.

Many Spartan helmets have a 'false' visor.

[wintry sleet]

My oc has a gray visor on Mark V but I dont think that means anything

[spark pivot]

I will note if it's the ODST helmet, probably

[wintry sleet]

I'll just take it as a ‘depends’ and scurry away

[sour raven]

Ah a roach
Sprays raid

[wintry sleet]

STOP!!

[sour raven]

continues spraying raid

[wintry sleet]

Tell my roach wife I love her

[sour raven]

No

sprays raid

[wintry sleet]

Halo 3 rat jumpscare incoming

[empty bloom]

Also, it is semi confirmed as of infinite that polarization is entirely user-controlled and visors are, apparently, colored by user choice?

Because of the test pattern visor I forgor the name of

Trion

[vagrant ocean]

Visor colors, at least in H4 and 5, do offer some sort of advantage depending on the version, such as Sigil being used to protect against the flash of nuclear devices, or Rampant (the H5 one) being used to integrate Forerunner sensor packages with MJÖLNIR.

So the colors do offer something beyond a cosmetic preference

[unborn patrol]

yeah it was pretty cool

always thought about that when selecting them

[fast heron]

If many many more humans joined the banished, do you think there would be a civil war between the brutes and the humans? Cause I doubt the brutes would like all of them

[vagrant ocean]

For the most part brutes are still simple minded creatures, if their war chief or commander tells them to leave the humans alone or else, then they’ll follow orders.

Keep in mind many of these humans are veterans of the War. They know how to fight them.

[carmine sleet]

I feel like calling Brutes "simple-minded" is extremely reductive

[fast heron]

But the brutes would still def blame humanity for Cortana

[fast heron]

Some parts, yea, but in the banished I feel like they def got a little smarter because of atriox

[vagrant ocean]

But would they be willing to go against the commands of Atriox?

[fast heron]

Who said atriox wouldn’t hate humans? But maybe your right, there’s a small chance he would allow more humans to join

[vagrant ocean]

Well, he didn’t give the order to kill all humans in the Banished, a few were even in Zeta Halo.

[fast heron]

True, but there are some brutes who were questioning the banished during atriox’s disappearance, but you are also right about the humans in the banished

[vagrant ocean]

Obviously there would be some who’d break from the Banished’s policy of being open to all, but that’s not exactly an indictment of the whole species or the Banished.

[fast heron]

Yeah

[vagrant ocean]

And those brutes are now dead,

So their complaints died with them.

[fast heron]

Either from the humans or they’re superiors lol

[sour raven]

Most likely there is a civil war within the banished on zeta halo after eschuraum died, since rn there is no known replacement for leadership

We’ll probably hear something about it in edge of dawn

[minor sky]

Quick question- were there any Brutes that refused to kill Elites during the outbreak of the schism or vise versa?

[vagrant ocean]

Which would give UNSC remnants a chance to rally around the Chief, and maybe even Lasky.

[fast heron]

But that will live shortly after seeing the ending of halo infinite

[carmine sleet]

If there are any, we haven't learnt about them yet

[fast heron]

For a short period

[vagrant ocean]

Most likely not. The order came from the Prophets and the Chieftain of the Jiralhanae.

[fast heron]

But then they bombed the elites

[sour raven]

It depends how long it takes for Atriox to return to the surface

[vagrant ocean]

(40 seconds)

[fast heron]

Also true

[carmine sleet]

Like, we have confirmed at least one Prophet who refused to turn on the Elites, it's not insane to believe the same is true for a select few Elites and Brutes

[fast heron]

Lol. Maybe like a day or 2, then the brutes bombed them and then the elites ate them alive

[sour raven]

Brutes arent really simple minded, they are just very loyal to their command and clan

[fast heron]

There are quite a few san Shyum that sided with the elites

But not a lot

[minor sky]

Ight. Just wondering if it was ever explored in any material. I know the Elites and Brutes had a very antagonistic relationship, but there always could've been an outlier to that status quo

[vagrant ocean]

They’re not exactly geniuses either.

[sour raven]

They did reach the stage to developing nukes but then they nuked themselves back to the stone age

[fast heron]

They did nuke themselves back to the Stone Age because they didn’t like they’re neighbors lol

[vagrant ocean]

Exactly

[fast heron]

That’s what I’m saying! Lol

[vagrant ocean]

Meanwhile humanity dodged that bullet multiple times.

[fast heron]

Luckily

[vagrant ocean]

And developed FTL tech

[minor sky]

Hey, they can make a cool motorbike out of scraps and knives put together with leather wrappings

Thats gotta count for something

[fast heron]

That was made by the engineers for humans

[vagrant ocean]

The Chopper was built by a Huragok.

And was an agricultural machine.

[fast heron]

Not the brutes, they just stole the idea

[sour raven]

That was a human made farm vehicle made into a weapon

[minor sky]

Really? Lol

Didn't know that

[fast heron]

Yeah, funny story lol

[minor sky]

Thats really funny

[vagrant ocean]

Contact Harvest

[minor sky]

(Still need to get to that)

I have other stuff I'm reading atm

[fast heron]

I still need to finish kilo 5 grasslands

[vagrant ocean]

Keep in mind the Brutes have the second lowest tech ranking next to the grunts.

[fast heron]

Which is a little crazy to me when I think about it for a little lol

[minor sky]

Lemmie guess, the Gravity Hammer was the result of a Brute strapping the engine of a Banshee onto a big stick and crushing another Brute's head with it?/j

[sly musk]

Perchance

[vagrant ocean]

They were BARELY Tier 4 when they were discovered, meanwhile the Jackals had colonies in their system.

[fast heron]

Idk if that’s true, but that def sounds like the brutes alright lol

[sour raven]

Something to that effect

[fast heron]

But I’m also thinking of the bug guys in halo ODST (I can’t remember the name rn)

[sour raven]

Drones?

[fast heron]

Yeah, thanks

[minor sky]

Honestly? It just makes it even funnier that the Brutes became the 2nd in command when a lot of their species is a bunch of dopes

[sour raven]

I miss drones, they looked noice in that infinite mp cutscene

[vagrant ocean]

They were also tier 4.

[sour raven]

Drones just wanna live life, thats why you dont see them anymore, they left back to home

[fast heron]

Yeah, but brutes being 2nd? Though I am forgetting how dumb a lot were lol

[fast heron]

True

[sour raven]

Probably because their loyalty

And seems like they are quick to learn

[vagrant ocean]

They were basically Tier 4.5, just rediscovering space flight.

[vagrant ocean]

Maybe the Vheiloth.

[minor sky]

Just a bunch of space monkeys running on spite and zealotry

[fast heron]

Same with the kigyar, they don’t believe in the banished or covenant, they just want money lol

[vagrant ocean]

Literally one of the few Covenant species I’m racist against.

[sour raven]

Only reason why they stay, but if they didnt have that reason, they would have left also

[fast heron]

What did they do?? Lol

[sour raven]

Funny dino

[fast heron]

Oh absolutely

[fast heron]

Funny chicken Dino

[vagrant ocean]

They’re vile little space turkeys. I hate them. They also started the war.

[minor sky]

No one told the Jackals that their payday won't be coming once the rings are fired

[sour raven]

I thought grunts did?

Well that one grunt

[fast heron]

How? The prophets started the war, and wasn’t it an engineer that killed the first human?

[sour raven]

I thought a grunt did?

[vagrant ocean]

The majority of the crew on the Minor Transgression was Kig-Yar.

They boarded the ship Johnson was on.

[fast heron]

I thought it was an engineer that killed the first human, it felt bad, made the chopper to help farming, brutes loved it and stole the idea

[sour raven]

Ah

[fast heron]

And he killed the first covenant of the war, man I love sergeant Johnson

[vagrant ocean]

Lighter Than Some was acting in self defense when he killed that human, so it technically wasn’t war.

[fast heron]

But he did still kill a human, but if we’re not counting that as a war kill, who killed the first human? Or should I say what?

[vagrant ocean]

Prolly Brutes.

[fast heron]

Hm, I something in my gut doubts that, idk why

[vagrant ocean]

It was a grunt, Yull

Shot UNSC Colonial Militia Recruit Osmo.

Funny enough the First Battle of Harvest involved ZERO Sangheili forces.

[fast heron]

Surprising

[sour raven]

Wow

[vagrant ocean]

I think first contact encountering a Sangheili was at Chi Ceti IV

[fast heron]

Fun fact, the first 2 species in the covenant were sangehili and hunters (not including San shyum), so if you ever hate fighting the covenant, remember that there were planets fighting only those 2 species lol

[vagrant ocean]

By crew of the UNSC Commonwealth.

[carmine sleet]

https://t.co/JrS1P7v6dT

[vagrant ocean]

Gas

Straight GAS

GABAGOO

BADABJNF

[fast heron]

Such a shame that they’re revealing Jega is alive in the book instead of another game, but I swear if they kill him in a lame way, let alone kill him in a book, I will be very mad

And sad lol

[sour raven]

Would be cool if they use the book to build him up

[vagrant ocean]

Jega gets crushed by a claw hammer wielded by Esparza

Then he default dances over the corpse.

[fast heron]

That’s a smart way, but you know, this is 343

[sour raven]

343? Who is that?

[vagrant ocean]

Fr.

[fast heron]

My apologies

[vagrant ocean]

This is 100% true btw, my friend knows Kelly Gay.

[sour raven]

Lmao

[carmine sleet]

It was pretty obvious he wasn't dead by virtue of his body cloaking and the lack of achievement for defeating him. And considering the first time Spartans tried to kill him, he survived an explosion, I doubt he's gonna just die easily

And him being in this novel is no indication he will die in it

[vagrant ocean]

To quote Django, he IS that one SplitLip in 10,000.

[fast heron]

And his body went invisible after “killing” him

[sour raven]

He will probably get worse, imo

Good worse, not bad worse

[vagrant ocean]

Can I just say, I want to see Maria again.

I miss her

She was cool

And pretty

[sour raven]

Who is maria?

[carmine sleet]

I literally mentioned him cloaking

[vagrant ocean]

She tested the Mk VI

[carmine sleet]

Spartan who tested Chief's Mark VI armour just before Halo 2

[sour raven]

Ah ok

Use ||

[carmine sleet]

I want him to lose more limbs every time he "dies"

[vagrant ocean]

I actually just managed to get the graphic novel recently, the original printing.

[carmine sleet]

Eventually, just give us Jega being more machine than Elite

[sour raven]

Same, up to the point he is merely a brain

[fast heron]

They also killed rookie in a book too

[vagrant ocean]

“He’s more machine now than man, twisted and evil.”

[fast heron]

Which knowing sangheili lore, is so cool lol

[carmine sleet]

Rookie was barely a character and of the members of Alpha Nine, made the most sense. But considering how people reacted to that, I imagine HS won't allow fan favourites to die in novels anymore

[vagrant ocean]

Barely is an understatement.

Adam before the waypoint chronicle was a more fleshed out character.

[fast heron]

I doubt they’ll listen, but maybe there’s a chance by looking at the grunts from halo 5 and how they improved from halo 4

Yeah I wouldn’t say barley, he was the main character in halo odst lol

[vagrant ocean]

“Character”

[fast heron]

Correct

You played as him and there is lore about him

[vagrant ocean]

He was more of a plot device than anything.

[fast heron]

I guess so

[vagrant ocean]

Hence the quotes.

[carmine sleet]

My dude, Rookie is the only character we play as who died in media which wasn't the games and none of the characters introduced in games since then have been killed off in novels

Like, you're acting like Rookie was the first of many kills

[fast heron]

True

[fast heron]

Also true lol

[vagrant ocean]

Even Cortana died in game, granted it was a cutscene, but it was still in game.

[fast heron]

I thought it was in between games?

[carmine sleet]

Both times she died were cutscenes

[fast heron]

I may be wrong

[carmine sleet]

We don't see her death in Infinite at the exact time it happened, but we do see her final moments in Infinite via the echoes of her final moments seen around Zeta

[fast heron]

True

[carmine sleet]

Basically, it's like watching a video of them dying

[vagrant ocean]

Imma goop if the Weapon’s named Joyeuse

It’d be full circle

Especially since Roland is also a Matter of France reference

[ionic tiger]

Truthfully, I care more about the circumstances of a characters death rather than what media it happened in.

[vagrant ocean]

Also can I just say that I can’t stand the people whining about the book.

[carmine sleet]

Same here, especially when they claim that it's a replacement for the next game

Especially when this novel has been compared to First Strike multiple times by HS

[vagrant ocean]

When they said it’ll be basically their version of First Strike, which set up Halo 2.

[vagrant ocean]

Hell as I was reading the summary before they said it was gonna be like FS I went “Oh this is just First Strike, cool”

[carmine sleet]

Basically what I'm expecting is this novel is showing Chief, Esparza and Weapon regrouping with the UNSC and giving us some of the Banished antics

[vagrant ocean]

Hopefully Lasky and Palmer come back

[ionic tiger]

Yeah but that’d require reading the actual announcement.

[carmine sleet]

Yeah... Silly me, we're talking about Halo fans here, most don't read things /hj

[ionic tiger]

In all seriousness, as the years go by I’m less and less inclined to be charitable to the claim that so much reading is needed to “understand” the plots of 343’s Halo games.

There are some things that could be better conveyed in-game, but it’s hardly the overwhelming task it’s made out to be.

[sour raven]

I remember hearing people say epitaph should have been a game…

[carmine sleet]

I remember those people too...

[ionic tiger]

I don’t think folks would get how disjointed the story would get if every little thing from the books was crammed in.

[carmine sleet]

Yeah, like, you don't need to know anything from Kilo-5 or the Forerunner trilogy to understand Halo 4, and with Halo 5, you don't exactly need to know how Buck became a Spartan or what Locke and Vale did on Forerunner installations which were featured previously or need to see Tanaka's adventures in Escalation (Or Escalation in general)

[ionic tiger]

And really, why relevent info from the sources IS mentioned in game.

I’ll give credit to the origins of Jul’s Covenant…but context clues should explain why a Covenant group would be at Requiem.

[carmine sleet]

And like, Halo 5 does have issues with its story, but I'd hardly say adding in a whole thing to explain why Buck is a Spartan would fix things like some people have claimed it would

[carmine sleet]

I just wish they were given a more interesting name. Like ironically enough, Storm Covenant would've been a great name for the faction

[ionic tiger]

Ironically, we get a look at Jul’s Covenants motives sooner than we got the real truth about the Covenant in the original trilogy.

[drowsy mesa]

and in the article they just say Edge of Dawn is a "self-contained adventure" and "an standalone story"

[unique rune]

John-117: "It sounds like the Covenant were here looking for something."
Cortana: "It's "the Covenant". Aren't they always looking for something?"

[minor sky]

Thats kind of where it begins and ends

The Covenant's presence isn't ever really given much direct explaination

Beyond vague comments of "A Lot Can Happen In Four Years"

And "These Covenant Seem More Fanatical Than The Ones We Fought Before"

The Covenant in Halo 4 are never much explained beyond that. Not who their leaders are or what their faction is in the wider context of the Galaxy.

It is one of the more glaring issues I have with Halo 4's narrative

[unique rune]

I will agree it's not done especially well
and I think they probably could've included more elaboration on what was going on later when Chief and Cortana finally met up with Infinity

but given the context of "Chief and Cortana have been out of contact for almost 5 years" I don't think it would've made a whole lot of sense for any deeper explanation until later anyway

[minor sky]

Sure

I'm not saying "A lot can happen in 4 years" is the the wrong thing for Cortana to say in the context of the game

I'm saying we are never really given a follow up to that

[carmine sleet]

It would've been nice to see something establishing who is leading the Covenant in Halo 4 at some point within the campaign itself and not just in Spartan Ops

[minor sky]

Right

[unique rune]

to some extent I kinda get not really following up on it later because it doesn't really matter why the Covenant are there once they find the Didact anyway

[minor sky]

I really think the first few levels should've given the Covenant and what their doing on Requiem more focus before we meet the Didact

[unique rune]

because finding and awakening was kinda why they were there and it's not like you need an excuse to fight them once he chokes Chief out and leaves him for dead

[carmine sleet]

Like maybe split Requiem into two levels and have the climax of one level give info about the Covenant forces or something like that?

[minor sky]

Pretty much

In my head it'd go like-
Dawn, Requiem, new mission, Forerunner

[carmine sleet]

Fair

[minor sky]

We'd spend those first three missions transitioning into the new style/tone of the universe. Establishing the new takes on John and Cortana, Jul's Covenant, and getting some build up to the Didact and some set up for the Librarian

[unique rune]

going back to the original point presented
I have been saying for a while that the criticism of "you need to read the books to understand" is consistently a phenomenal indicator of someone who has never actually read any of the Halo books because none of them actually "explain" any of 343's campaigns the way they seem to claim

and I will never understand why it's supposedly such a problem with 343's titles
when the Bungie games would frequently just drop new characters on you with zero context or backstory and also no supplementary media for more even if you wanted to do more exploration

[ionic tiger]

Hello Johnson just…being alive in H2

[minor sky]

That 3rd mission would be kind of like the one in Halo Infinite where you are at the mining laser. Maybe work in the Harvester this way. Chief and Cortana would make their way onto a Covenant excavation platform and we'd get to see more of Jul's Covenant and how they opperate, directly establishing that they believe Requiem is the tomb of one of their gods and that this small splinter faction is centered around this Jul 'Mdama guy who is making grand promises of enlightement with a nice mix of vengence on "the unworthy" (humanity)

[minor sky]

That's classified

[ionic tiger]

And ironically people just accepted that. But nowadays if you don’t outline every last detail you’re forcing them to read.

[minor sky]

Ig its just a matter of Halo 2 releasing early on + 343i's execution being poor

[unique rune]

Everyone just accepts Noble Team and considers them fan favorites even though you get barely any explanation on who any of them are and what their deal is but when Osiris shows up and their histories even get briefly touched on in 5 everyone hates them

[empty bloom]

Halo fan moment

[ionic tiger]

I chalk it up to double standards.

[carmine sleet]

Once again I will point to the people who complained we didn't get a detailed breakdown for why Buck was a Spartan in Halo 5 despite the fact that his journey to becoming a Spartan was not important to the story being told outside of "He was an ODST, he's now a Spartan"

[empty bloom]

"Any better, he'd be a Spartan"
Becomes a Spartan
'People can't be better, wth'

[carmine sleet]

Basically

[ionic tiger]

I can get wanting to know more about his squad and what happened…but that has little relevance to Halo 5’s story. How much time we going to devote to every little detail?

[minor sky]

I think it would've been a neat take to see Jul's Covenant be established early on as being a small fringe group. And then after Halo 4 it grows and grows, gobbling up other splinter factions either by influence or force.
Like imagine the opening level of Halo 5 but its Locke having to navigate a battle between two groups of Covenant factions. Ending with Jul killing their leader and taking their forces.

[carmine sleet]

Exactly, it would just not make sense to focus on that when there's clearly something else which needs the focus

[unique rune]

Ultimately I don’t think criticism of 343’s stories coming off kinda disjointed is inherently wrong, but nebulously assigning blame to The Books also isn’t right or helpful either

[minor sky]

My issue is more just how much stuff happened between Halo 4 and 5

[ionic tiger]

Absolutely this. I can pinpoint several problems I have with them, but reading the books alleviates none of them.

[minor sky]

^

[empty bloom]

It's an easy out from having to do a proper analysis of content.

[minor sky]

Playing Halo 5 again a few months ago only reminded me of how much of a sloppy mess the game's narrative was

[empty bloom]

Weirdly, I had the opposite.

[ionic tiger]

And it sure isn’t going to be improved watching Nightfall lol

[empty bloom]

Where it reinforced my belief that the narrative is called 'sloppy' as a way of dodging proper analysis.

[minor sky]

Way too much going on all at once, poor characterization, and not really feeling like an actual follow up to Halo 4

[unique rune]

I frequently feel a need to revisit 5’s campaign but they won’t port it to PC and it frustrates me

[minor sky]

Like even if you read the books and comics, watch the animated Fall Of Reach series and Nightfall, Halo 5 doesn't actually feel like its building upon those stories

[ionic tiger]

I still have a fairly negative opinion of 5’s campaign, but there are some good pieces to pull from it.

I actually kinda liked the guns down missions, though I think they could have been incorporated a bit better.

[minor sky]

Guns Down was a really solid idea, I agree

The execution left a bit to be desired, but I do think it was a cool addition to the game

I maybe would've prefered if they were integrated into missions rather than being their own thing

Like the hanger bay at the start of shutdown

[carmine sleet]

Unironically, I wish Locke acted more like how he did in Nightfall. He just feels too different in Halo 5 to me and it's not because of the VA being Ike Amadi instead of Mike Colter in the game (Which side note, Amadi's Locke voice is real close to Colter's voice so that's neat)

[carmine sleet]

I second this, they would've worked better as bookends of missions, like having both the Sanghelios ones attached to Enemy Lines for example

[unique rune]

I’m sure it would’ve just been seen as trend-chasing but in a way I kinda feel like Halo 5’s campaign and the guns-down missions might’ve been better suited to Destiny-like hub worlds

[ionic tiger]

Maybe, but right out the gate Destiny had both shooting and puzzle solving as core parts of its gameplay. This paired well with hubs to fight in and explore. Halo only really had the latter.

I think, as said above, a break in a mission would be more ideal. Otherwise, I feel you’d get something like Infinite and I’ve got some gripes with how it did things.

[unique rune]

Yeah, that’s fair

[ionic tiger]

Had Infinite’s multiplayer story continued, it’d have been nice to have a hub to explore. You could talk to the characters, maybe experiment with new weapons and gear introduced with new updates and seasons, etc.

[empty bloom]

I mean, that was the original plan, wasn't it?

[sour raven]

The devs always wanted to make a hub world for halo

[empty bloom]

That the Infinity itself was a hub level?

[sour raven]

But they never had the time

But maybe this time they do

Would be cool

Or they choose to stop chasing that dream

[ionic tiger]

Probably not until the next game I’d reckon. Could have them set up at ANVIL Station if the Infinity is out of commission still.

[sour raven]

Maybe hub map for mp

[ionic tiger]

Yeah for MP.

[sour raven]

Since it seems they are setting up anvil station for the next mp

[karmic gulch]

Same

[sour raven]

Also, isnt the open world in infinite a hub world for the missions for campaign, they kind of got there

[unique rune]

I think so, yeah

[versed helm]

How do you guys feel about the Spartan Field Guide? While it is lacking in overall lore, that is to be expected as its meant to be a compulsory reading for new Spartans and Commanders, as opposed to some grand archive of information made by some primordial hyper-intelligence, though its still a reliable source of into. I personally thinks its a nice overview of the more modern events of Halo prior to Infinite, and new tid-bits of info such as protocol for a flood-infected Spartan were neat add ons

However, I most definitely prefer the other two modern Halo guide-books over the former.

[empty bloom]

I feel like it's... Somewhat poorly constructed.

It's not bad, mind. I just think it has a small number of errors.

[versed helm]

Do tell, I am curious of other’s opinion on the guidebook

[empty bloom]

Well, it establishes a few inconsistencies with other sources on how IV augmentations work, for starters; Additionally, it reads more like a universe primer than anything else to me. Generally speaking, my issues and errors are not so much errors in how they wrote it, but the nature of what they wrote, if that makes any sense. Mechanically it's okay, but narratively I don't like its composition.

[versed helm]

I did find the Spartan legends section to feel… off to say the least. I get that MC is, in their words, “inarguably the best Spartan” and “the quintessential spartan”, but just because of that you didn’t need to do the rest of blue team dirty by putting a fraction of effort into their bios. MC may be more accomplished and renowned, but Blue Team is right behind him in that category, and they each have some insane attribute next to no one does (for example: Linda’s sniping ability is absolutely broken and absolutely without equal). All other members of Blue Team are incredibly vital to each other’s legacy, so they definitely deserve more than half a page of recognition in a small, generalizing paragraph. Halo 2022 Encyclopedia does it as well, but I’ll give them a pass because they spent a majority of those pages recalling events as well as the Weapon and Cortana (who had also been part of that same section).

[gusty star]

There are typos and misspellings on like every page it was genuinely embarrassing

[versed helm]

Lol, seems like the allegations are more serious than I first thought. Can’t believe its actually an in-verse guide for new commanders and stuff with those typos you speak of. However, Halo has been getting its act together with books in more recent days

[orchid kettle]

I feel like it was also just really ugly to look at

[ionic tiger]

Guess I’d echo the above sentiment. It was okay but nothing I’ve really pawed at outside of occasionally getting a piece of info from time to time.

It was funny though to see it say anyone who sees the Didact needs to report it to ONI immaturely. One of my mutuals on Twitter made a funny joke about seeing him at Costco and did a great sketch of that idea.

[versed helm]

Let the poor, deranged Forerunner get his food I say

[ionic tiger]

Just the mental image alone of the Didact in a hoodie getting eggs or something at Costco is great.

Found it btw: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DnqVEYEXgAYV_eI.jpg:small

[versed helm]

At that point, I think he’s cooked. Poor bugger.

[unique rune]

guy can’t even buy a chicken bake in peace smh

[gusty star]

Yeah I mean that guide did come out like 10 years ago lol and every guidebook since then has been stellar

[versed helm]

I definitely agree

[minor sky]

I really consider that book to serve less as a lore accurate piece of Unfiction, and more as a guide book to people (kids) who don't know a ton about Halo

Aka someone who isn't a dedicated fan going out of their way to buy the massive encyclopedia

[severe gorge]

Hey folks! I have a rather specific question

Is there any time in the games where Avery Johnson talks about the ORION Project and his time in it? Or is that information purely book, and if it is, which books?

[stoic hamlet]

Just the books. You’ll be looking to read Contact Harvest and Silent Storm for that.

Though he doesn’t talk about it. It’s brought up by others.

It’s a classified program, and he understands OPSEC, and the like.

[spark pivot]

there really aren't that many typos, unless it got fixed by the time I got my copy (mine didn't have any that I noticed)

I for one actually liked how the field manual looked, it's a decent starter book for halo, and it does it's job as being an in universe field manual (bc it's literally supposed to be a field manual given to EVERY spartan IV (ignoring the comments from thorne and co. in the book))

I will note that it very clearly is set up as a primer for after halo 4 and right before halo 5

[spark pivot]

to note the thing about chief though, considering chiefs exploits without blue team are exponentially more talked about than his adventures with them, it's not surprising that chief gets propped up more as "The Spartan" from an in universe propaganda perspective, they need a hero, and they have one very hero shaped spartan II who is very easy to make an ideal spartan out of, meanwhile blue team really doesn't have as many adventures that are as notable as chief's adventures, so it makes sense that besides a few mentions, they wouldn't get talked about too much in comparison

[steel stone]

I do wish there were some moments with blue team talking to Chief adventures through Halo 2 and 3.

In Halo 5, Blue Team just didnt have anything memorable to them, can anyone remember awesome moments with Blue Team in Halo 5?

[empty bloom]

Off the top of my head, I remember a lot of somewhat... Evasive dialogue regarding their upbringing, but them, to them their way of being raised as supersoldiers was normal. The biggest standout conversations are mostly the conversation where they talk about Osiris being Spartans and the conversation where Chief refuses to elaborate on working with Cortana.

[steel stone]

Maybe its been a while since I played 5s campaign but I remember being confused why chief didnt tell Blue team about cortana or elaborate more on what happen in Halo 4 nor 3

[versed helm]

I guess one could pass it on as propaganda. From the other guidebooks that are from the POVs of higher forms of intelligence, knowing basically the entire history of Halo—Halo studios themselves also to this—still call MC “the greatest / most accomplished and renowned”. So, I’d think a good deal of stuff said in the bio is true, considering all of his shenanigans across the stars.

However, the victory section in particular definitely gave hints of ‘hopeful advertisement’. “Look at this guy, look at how many things he’s defeated, he’s only human, so you could do so as well!”. This is where that whole “beacon of hope” shpeal comes into play.

[versed helm]

Not really, and that’s the sad part. They were just there as helping hands, they didn’t really define themselves in the game.

[versed helm]

We need more people going to archive.org to read the available PDFs of the 2022 edition cuz holy the amount of people I see coping about 343 and misinforming others with false Halo info is atrocious.

“343 isn’t canon”
“Sam is still by far the tallest Spartan”
“Hyper lethal rahhh”
“Those 343 guidebooks are nothing. True fans know that only Bungie’s books are canon”

[steel stone]

Hyper lethal? I always thought that meant being an efficient killer

I like the books but the games are more important to me, when the books play a part ion the games it barely means anything from what I can tell

Many fans from what can I tell dislike the comics as well

Its something I always wanted to talk about but goes into so many things

Its interesting

[versed helm]

It was a title used by some Noble Six super-fans to auto glaze him and Chief to levels far above all the other Spartans to the point they were in their own category. At the time, Chief hadn’t started his campaign and rise to GOAT status, and we knew nothing about Noble Six

[versed helm]

Probably because Black Team (I think that was their name) was off screened by the Didact.

[steel stone]

My memory is a bit hazy but I thought that was a an in universe term for highly skilled Spartans

[steel stone]

People hated that oh boy I didnt even know what they even were

I joking just called them Team Texas

[versed helm]

It is now a description of all Spartans in comparison to your common foot soldiers. They are the pinnacle soldiers, thus the classification of hyper lethal

[steel stone]

Halo eascallation was funny in an awful way that was still entertaining for me

[versed helm]

Wouldn’t be far off considering their out going personality. I haven’t read their comic, but I know they were far from typical

[steel stone]

Yeah I do know a bit more about them but I dotn care much because they dont show up as playable characters in a spin off Halo

They are not even mentioned I think anywhere, would of been fun having appear somewhere

At the time they were killed off people were like they are trying to kill off the classic spartans

[versed helm]

Somehow Blue Team survived, shocker. Come on, they could have at least held out long enough till Blue Team arrived

[steel stone]

There was more like having the elites drawn with 1 thumb holy hell

[empty bloom]

Which was just and correct for 343i to do :>

[versed helm]

Wort?

[steel stone]

I have a picture they drawn elites incorrectly with normal hands it was cursed

Theres many parts as well where they show zealots being blue as well. Elites ranks just are so crappily done in that comic.

These are just trivial things but they build up other time

[versed helm]

Normal hands??😭

[steel stone]

I cant post screenshots here

[versed helm]

The Halo 4-5 Era was something, really something

[versed helm]

Just dm it to me, I need to see this

[steel stone]

Yeah they screwed up twice

4 and 5 stuff era stuff was horrid mess

I think in that comic palmer called a wraith a tank I think

[versed helm]

“Let’s not only try to make Halo adults only, but ruin its designs”

[steel stone]

Id have to find it but she named it wrong

Also it had Elites in a bar getting drunk vomiting

I think one the best Halo comics was the one that had chief on the dreadnaut going to earth during Halo 2

I do have alot to critique about but generally was a fun read for me

[carmine sleet]

Wraiths are a type of tank though, so it's not wrong to call it that

[steel stone]

Correction on that it was not that

It was calling the warthog a truck

Its kinda is one but I typically called a either a hog or a warthog

Maybe its just me but it sounds wrong calling the wraith a tank it is a tank

But in the games typically everyone calls it a wraith

Its a small thing to dig into but its that consistency thats important

[spark pivot]

But... it does fit the baseline definition for being a truck

[steel stone]

Yeah in every way but its just wrong to me to call it that

[spark pivot]

Fair

[steel stone]

Call it just tank and truck goes against what the games were about

[spark pivot]

Its one of those cases where your too used to calling something by its nickname and then someone calls it by its actual name or somn and its weird

Like the A-10 thunderbolt II

[steel stone]

The name is what makes the vehicles stand out for this series and didnt have lame basic names

Human vehirlces are tradionally named after animals and bugs, Hornet, Manis, Warthog, Mongoose, Scorpion

I think they are much better at doing stuff like this at this time but man looking back then, just basics they couldnt get right

I think the books and comics are fantastic just some are really bad in my eyes and surprised me.

I do wanna check out that comic where blue team goes back to planet reach that sounds awesome

This sounds like strange thing to say but could they redo the escallation comic? sort of like retcon or remake?

There are some great moments, maybe expand on that

[spark pivot]

Which one was that?

[steel stone]

It was that comic that took place after I think after Halo 4

[empty bloom]

I considered doing a full shot by shot redo of the comic in Blender so it was more consistent, but after I lost access to newer Halo 5 blender files I kinda lost all interest.

[steel stone]

you freakin legend that sounds awesome

I hate that comic for many reasons but that idea sounds amazing I wish you luck on that project

[empty bloom]

I mean, would've been more legendary if I had done it, but as I said, I don't have access to the means anymore.

The comic was supposed to be continued on from Spartan Ops, meaning we likely would've been going on concurrent missions on new worlds.

[steel stone]

no worries it would take alot of time putting together, its about the motivation and the right tools

I heard it would of been another season of spartan ops

[vagrant ocean]

Wrong. The H5 Banshee is PEAK.

[steel stone]

H5 Ultra Banshee my beloved

[empty bloom]

That's... Not really right, by the by.

[vagrant ocean]

I like the organic style of H5.

[empty bloom]

Like, if I were playing a game of TDM and someone called the Wraith a tank I'd be like oh, they mean the Wraith

Which is weird because the Wraith is more of a heavily armored SPG, but I digress.

[vagrant ocean]

Eh, given the fact they use a mortar as their primary weapon they’re more like an SPG if anything.

[steel stone]

I was not a fan of it, just felt like it all came out of nowhere, I saw a purple flying jelly like ship WOT

[vagrant ocean]

I like the Man o’ war

[empty bloom]

It's amusing to me, as someone who is a fan of franchises having multiple different names for the same thing, to hear about an insistence of "This needs to be named the same thing all the time".

Like, in Battletech, the same mech can have upwards of three names, including multiple shorthand or non-English names.

[steel stone]

You have to consistent with alot of things, why do you think people hate that Halo 4 intro so much?

[vagrant ocean]

Madcat my beloved.

[empty bloom]

Because people are dweebs who get mad about nothing constantly.

[vagrant ocean]

Literally what Trench said.

[carmine sleet]

What? How does it go against what the games are about because someone call a Wraith a tank?

[steel stone]

Well with that logic then lets give Chief his Halo 4 armor for Halo 7

[empty bloom]

Okay, I'm down for that.

It looks better anyways.

[carmine sleet]

Like, that's such a weird complaint about nothing

[vagrant ocean]

It was nice. Granted there would need to be a lore explanation. The only reason the H4 armor was in the intro was because that was the model they had on hand.

Most likely

[steel stone]

Consistency matters for a reason you cant just randomly change stuff

lets change the warthogs name to truck

[vagrant ocean]

I present Halo Reach.

[empty bloom]

A tank is a tank is a tank. It's a Wraith Tank. Calling it a tank is fine. The Warthog is a truck, so it's a truck is a truck is a truck.

[steel stone]

See the general reaction fans wouldnt like that

[empty bloom]

It's such a weird thing to be angry about, because it's like being pissed someone is calling your 2005 Honda Pilot a car. Like, yeah, it's a car.

[steel stone]

remember Halo 5s rocket how many people hated it? they had to bring back the classic

[empty bloom]

Anyone sane does not give a damn about 'fans' who piss and moan about that.

[vagrant ocean]

Halo YouTubers aren’t fans, they’re grifters.

[vagrant ocean]

Halo fans complain about literally everything.

[empty bloom]

Like, seriously, franchises are actively degrading due to cowtowing to fools who whinge about a truck being called a truck because it's not called a sporpledrive 9000. Like, no, dude, it's a freaking truck.

[steel stone]

Sounds more like your just ignoring the points instead just blame everyone else, you sound just like the people you hate

[empty bloom]

And that just sounds like a paltry attempt at deflection.

It's not 'ignoring the point' to call out crappy behavior and inconsistent logic from fans.

[steel stone]

All Im saying is Halo has a unique identity style and feel

[carmine sleet]

It's not an inconsistency that someone calls a Wraith a tank when it is a type of tank

[empty bloom]

And it is degraded precisely zero by calling a Wraith Tank a Tank.

Because it is literally considered, in-universe, factually, a tank.

You don't need to call it a Wraith every time, because nobody in reality talks like that, and realistic dialogue is important, even in a franchise where 'To War' is apparently a justified response to a call for a rally point.

[steel stone]

Halo tradionally names ite vehicles after animals and bugs. calling it just tank does not sound right

[vagrant ocean]

You’re being needlessly pedantic.

[empty bloom]

It is literally called a Zurdo Pattern Mortar Tank.

[vagrant ocean]

I hate Marty so much.

[steel stone]

Ok not sure what that means

[carmine sleet]

It's the Covenant name for the Wraith

[empty bloom]

Specifically the Halo 3/Reach Wraith.

[vagrant ocean]

It’s the in universe name the Covenant use for a type of Wraith.

[steel stone]

No I meant this, what does that mean?

[empty bloom]

There is the Zurdo, Muz, 'Type 25', and Kemu pattern Wraiths.

[vagrant ocean]

You’re mincing over words for no reason. It’s literally a tank in universe.

[empty bloom]

As well as the Ogab'd, Muv'te patterns of AA Tanks.

[vagrant ocean]

I’m almost certain UNSC personnel have called the Wraith a tank.

[empty bloom]

And finally the Bolroci Workshop, Eklon'Dal Workshop, and Eklon'Dal "Invader" Wraith.

[vagrant ocean]

The Ghost is literally called a scout bike by the Covenant, so me calling it a bike wouldn’t be incorrect.

That’s what RvB did.

[steel stone]

Im not for no reason im critiquing on why I dont like it and provided a possible solution, your mincing words

[empty bloom]

"Enemy Tank!"
'Erm, excuse me sir, it's actually called a Wraith.'
"Get the rockets, we need to bust the tank now!"
'SIIIIR it's called a WRAAAITH get it RIIIIIGHT'

[steel stone]

Just saying my honest thoughts, your the one being mad for some reason

What were your thoughts on elites having 1 thumb?

[empty bloom]

My thoughts on the thumb issue is an art issue, not a dialogue/logic issue.

I don't complain about someone drawing my car wrong.

[carmine sleet]

Same with the Chopper too, which fits more as a traditional bike since it has two wheels like our modern day bikes do (Even if the positioning of the wheels is not traditional)

[empty bloom]

Which is a 2005 Honda Pilot, not a car.

Oh, wait, it's a car, because it has four wheels, an engine, and is legally considered a street-legal car.

[steel stone]

For me It took me out of the story, how do you get elites wrong?

[empty bloom]

And this is why you were called pedantic earlier.

[steel stone]

Ok

[carmine sleet]

Art errors happen all the time

[empty bloom]

Like, I know exactly what scene you are referring to. My response to that elite?

"Oh, they drew the thumb wrong."

And then I moved on with reading.

[vagrant ocean]

Wait what thumb issue

And why does it seem pointless

[empty bloom]

Because it is pointless.

[steel stone]

On the scale of something like that thats something I dont how anyone could get wrong its fun poking at

[vagrant ocean]

Context

[empty bloom]

Is it taking you out of the story as a critical flaw, or is it something you just find amusing that you poke fun at.

[steel stone]

Kinda both

[vagrant ocean]

What thumb issue

Im lost

[carmine sleet]

This one here

[empty bloom]

They drew a damn elite's hand wrong.

[carmine sleet]

It's for one panel if I recall

[steel stone]

theres other parts where they use zealots alot too

[empty bloom]

... And zealots are a major component of Jul's military.

Which is literally comprised primarily of religious zealots.

[vagrant ocean]

Oh, this is a non issue. It’s a comic book, expect artistic license. Just look at the Graphic Novel, which includes a scene of a guy wearing ORION armor.

[carmine sleet]

Aye

[steel stone]

As I said its small things like that just build up over time

[vagrant ocean]

Why would a Covenant remnant group wishing to start the Great Journey use Zealots? Almost as if Jul was a zealot himself.

[carmine sleet]

Do you complain when characters are off model in 2D animated projects?

[steel stone]

If I was doing a Halo comic I would not make mistake like that

[empty bloom]

It's not a one-man show, it's done on a timetable.

And on a budget.

Artists need to eat.

[steel stone]

Honestly sounds like your guys are just accepting anything they do wrong

[vagrant ocean]

You’re assuming the thumb thing is a mistake and not artistic license or just the artist not being able to figure out Elite hands. It’s a non issue. Mountain out of a mole hill bro.

[carmine sleet]

And small things like this naturally happen when stuff is done on a timetable, whether it be because it slipped through without anyone noticing or it was just found too late they didn't get the chance to fix it

[empty bloom]

We literally acknowledged that a human made a mistake here.

[vagrant ocean]

Strawman. I’m not accepting anything, I’m offering simple explanations.

[empty bloom]

It's problably a good thing I don't have inheritor right now because I am wishing I could send my referee memes.

Like, for you, right now, that thumb is the end of the world, seemingly.

For us, it's a Tuesday.

Well, actually, it's Saturday, but I digress.

[steel stone]

"You’re being needlessly pedantic." ah like calling people this

[empty bloom]

You are literally being needlessly pedantic, it's why it works here.

[carmine sleet]

Now, what would be an issue is if we got a comic focused on Master Chief but he was depicted as being an Elite throughout, because that would be completely inconsistent with who Master Chief is, given he is a human

[vagrant ocean]

How is me correctly calling you pedantic accepting anything?

[steel stone]

I gave you a reason Im not being like that.

[empty bloom]

I'm a fresh cabbage.

I can say I'm things I'm not too.

I am, in fact, a dirty, rotting cabbage, in the back of a supermarket where I fell off a cart.

[vagrant ocean]

Fine, you’re being pedantic for a reason that is still pointless. These are minor issues that you seem to be compiling into a huge conspiracy of deliberate incompetence.

[empty bloom]

Duuude. Remember when people were saying 343i was engaging in "Dark Patterns of shop manipulation"?

[steel stone]

Ive not called anyone anything in this discussion. Ive given my honest points and does not go further than that

[carmine sleet]

https://tenor.com/view/avatar-the-last-airbender-nickelodeon-animation-cartoons-toons-gif-14828131

[empty bloom]

I swear, Halo's fanbase is riven through with ridiculous conspiracy theorists.

[carmine sleet]

Why you gotta remind me of that from last night?

[empty bloom]

I keep seeing CIA type, and I wonder what his thoughts on this conversation are.

[vagrant ocean]

“The Number Company literally set my house on fire”

[empty bloom]

Because it's awesome. I love being invested in a franchise where most of the fanbase seems to engage in conspiracy theories wildly.

[steel stone]

On the topic of the comics whats everyones favourite Halo comic?

I really like the Fall of reach one it really stuck with me

[vagrant ocean]

Armor testing.

[empty bloom]

If I'm memeing, the one where Black Team dies.

[carmine sleet]

More and more I am contemplating making an obviously fake conspiracy about the next Halo featuring Daleks as the main antagonists

[empty bloom]

My actual favorite is the one that explains Spartan Tanaka's backstory and how she became a Spartan.

[vagrant ocean]

Sentinels in the last missions of CE.

[steel stone]

is it the part where chief deflects missile?

[vagrant ocean]

No, Armor Testing is from the 2006 graphic novel.

[steel stone]

thats cool

[vagrant ocean]

Spartan Maria-062 is testing the Mk VI in Seongnam.

[carmine sleet]

I hope Maria is doing ok

[vagrant ocean]

Same. I hope her ODST husband is fine being almost 2 feet shorter than his wife.

[empty bloom]

Sigh. Someone's gonna make a dumb joke, I can feel it.

[steel stone]

Is that mark 6 or 4?

[vagrant ocean]

6

[vagrant ocean]

What joke.

[steel stone]

Wait a sec during reach's time?

[vagrant ocean]

No, literally hours before Halo 2.

[empty bloom]

I=1, II=2, III=3, IV=4, V=5, VI=6, VII=7, VIII=8, IX=9, X=10.

[spice crystal]

EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE

[vagrant ocean]

“Your new suit's a Mark VI, just came up from Seongnam this morning.”

[spice crystal]

Yeah this is true

I remember learning this fun tidbit

[empty bloom]

One(I)-before-Five(V)=IV=4
Five(V)-after-One(I)=VI=6

[carmine sleet]

Height differences in romantic relationships in fiction my beloved

[vagrant ocean]

If only Linda would give me a shot.

[carmine sleet]

https://tenor.com/view/daleks-exterminate-doctor-who-whovian-gif-10468156

[steel stone]

Reason I brought up reach is because the Mark VI was available inthe game reach as a prototype which was really cool to see it

[empty bloom]

Height differences are overrated in relationships IMO, but then, I've dated people much taller than me and I've never enjoyed much of it beyond jokes about it.

[vagrant ocean]

That was a prototype. Maria tested the production model.

[steel stone]

Thats cool to know

[vagrant ocean]

Team BLACK also tested a skunkworks version called MJÖLNIR: BLACK.

[steel stone]

Wait that mark VI was different?

[vagrant ocean]

Yes, it was made at the same plant the production model was.

There’s several test models of Mk VI that have been made.

[steel stone]

did they have anything unique from a functional standpoint? I notice they all have the same look minus I think the team logo on them

[vagrant ocean]

The Reach helmet, BLACK, a helmet for Mk IV that looks similar to Mk VI seen in 2525, and another variant similar to VI seen in 2544.

[steel stone]

reach mark VI had a white stripe on the top that was part of the helmet

[vagrant ocean]

The heads-up display has a field of view of nearly five kilometers, allowing extreme-range reconnaissance. One arm hosts a device nicknamed the "Interrogator", featuring a built-in microphone, processor, and speaker for translation of Covenant languages to English and from English to Covenant speech.

[vagrant ocean]

Yes.

Mk VI is considered the most successful variant of the exoskeleton.

[spice crystal]

Question: wich arbiter went on the most "suicide" missions before they died?

[vagrant ocean]

The amount of permutations made for the initial platform, the prototypes, and its ports to newer MJÖLNIR generations.

[vagrant ocean]

Ripa Moramee.

[spice crystal]

Ok

[vagrant ocean]

Fal Chavamee

[steel stone]

I love the Mark VI design but Ive always had a soft spot for Mark V

[spice crystal]

Ripa or fal???

[vagrant ocean]

Mk VI was even used as a testbed for GEN2.

[vagrant ocean]

Both.

[spice crystal]

Theyre tied?

[vagrant ocean]

Yeh, they both went on suicide missions and died.

[carmine sleet]

We don't exactly know too much about most of the Arbiters to really say which one survived the most suicide missions

[vagrant ocean]

They never fought each other

[steel stone]

Sounds like a weird thing to say whats the point of having the Mark V around and still upgrade it? should the Mark VI be the main focus and stop putting in use the Mark V?

shouldnt the Mark VI be superior in every way?

[carmine sleet]

Sometimes all you have is Mark V armour pieces

[vagrant ocean]

Because it’s already built. Why waste the materiel?

[carmine sleet]

Or there's personal preference from the Spartan for the Mark V design

[steel stone]

Thats a good point and costs alot to make

[vagrant ocean]

Yep. It has been stated Mk V was upgraded and used by Spartans to emulate the heroes that they saw as kids.

[steel stone]

did you guys know they had planned the full Mark V armor for halo 3? it was a concept sketch it was so cool

I think the only part of it that made it into halo 3 was the EOD chest which sorta looks like it?

[empty bloom]

We still use the F-16, which is nearly a sixty year old aircraft.

[vagrant ocean]

And the reason why there’s so many Mk IV suits still around is because they were already built when half the IIs washed out, and I’m sure the armor was kept after survivors moved on to the V.

[vagrant ocean]

The B-52 is older than my grandmother.

We’ve been using the M2 Browning for over a century.

[carmine sleet]

Don't forget there various upgraded or one off versions of Mark IV they had the IIs wearing throughout the war as well, like Cobalt

[vagrant ocean]

The M1911 was finally retired from US military service in 2020.

[vagrant ocean]

Yeep. I’m sure the COBALT suits are still around deep in the Damascus or Menachite facilities.

[steel stone]

How many spartans died during the fall of reach? If there were no washouts for the IIs could they have won the war defending the planet?

This is sort delving into a sort fractures sort of thing but I think would be awesome talking about

[carmine sleet]

Won the war if nobody washed out? No, because the number of Spartans on the ground wasn't the determining factor for why Reach fell

[vagrant ocean]

No, quite a few IIs died during the war before Reach fell. The UNSC lost 3 in a single year due to combat.

[carmine sleet]

Like, it's all well and good you have a bunch of super soldiers, but when your enemy is boiling the planet alive from orbit, kinda hard to shoot it with assault rifles

[steel stone]

They had much more advanced tech as well, I remember watching I think one of the shows and it showed how covy ships had their own energy shield around it

[vagrant ocean]

The UNSC had lost 11 Spartans by 2552, 18 if you count Black and Gray as no one knew where they were officially.

Of those 11, 7 were combat losses.

[steel stone]

11 counting the defence generators from the comics? that was hellishly scary seeing

After playing Reach I wish we got to play more missions on the planet. Imagine a mission where you have to escape in hornet from a glassing beam and its timed

[vagrant ocean]

At least 10 IIs were killed during the Fall of Reach.

[steel stone]

Ill take your on that and does not sound too bad

I think there were 40 spartan IIs If I remember correctly

something around that

Everyone I had talked to on many occasions say spartan 2s were the best or 3s were the best

[vagrant ocean]

At Reach there were 19 confirmed IIs

They lost 50% of their combat capabilities.

That was catastrophic.

[steel stone]

woah

Reach was such a tragedy

[vagrant ocean]

Granted Linda was revived, but she was clinically dead.

[steel stone]

OH SNAP

I remember that, she took and energy through the stomach that was nuts

shame too wish we got see her do sick sniping

[vagrant ocean]

By the Battle of Earth all but a handful of Spartans were left.

According to the UNSC and ONI.

[steel stone]

Thats why I love halo 3 it felt like it was just almost over, lord hood said earth is all we have left holy hell what a line

I know now there were other colonies around still but that line was scary to think about especially with Halo reach under my belt

[vagrant ocean]

BLACK, Blue Team, Omega, Maria, Naomi, and technically James.

And I’m taking late in the battle of Earth, so Kurt is already dead.

[carmine sleet]

If we include IIIs as well we have Jun, Rosenda, Gamma Company and a few survivors of Alpha and Beta

[steel stone]

This has been a awesome discussion, gotta go, gotta check on my mod AND REMEMBER

[vagrant ocean]

Strictly IIs.

[vagrant ocean]

Halo fans suck, I know.

[steel stone]

WE GOTTA HAVE ELITES WITH 1 THUMB ON THE NEXT HALO TELL THEM WE NEED THIS

Its been fun take care

[carmine sleet]

https://tenor.com/view/dandadan-dumbfounded-momo-ayase-ayase-momo-ken-takakura-gif-14575386895602202640

[empty bloom]

I mean, if an elite lost their top or bottom 'finger' they'd technically have one thumb.

[vagrant ocean]

I’m think it should be canon that Cutter listens to Hootie and the Blowfish.

[carmine sleet]

Before or after his attempt to buy a used car from Atriox?

[vagrant ocean]

Yes.

“Yo I just picked up this used Marauder from Atriox”

Chief driving his Warthog on Zeta Halo listening to “Let Her Cry”: I miss Cortana.

[stoic hamlet]

Ehhh, that’s true of the public facing ones, but on. Technicality, there very well could have been more Spartans deployed than ever before, depending on the numbers overall

[vagrant ocean]

Hence why I said confirmed by the UNSC and ONI.

[stoic hamlet]

Fair.

[vagrant ocean]

Always check for qualifiers

[stoic hamlet]

Still relevant to point out, though.

Ah, someone else pointed it out, my b. Discord wasn’t loading right, lol

[severe gorge]

I was trying to do a video on the SPARTAN generations so I got my notes on the ORIONs then opened the Wiki page (my first source) on the SPARTAN-IIs and holy theres so much information

[carmine sleet]

Well yeah, Halo is a nearly 25 year old franchise, there's gonna be allot

[severe gorge]

I just find it funny the comedically massive gap in amount of information we have on the two

We know bits and pieces of of the ORION Program and we know every intricate detail on the SPARTAN-II Program

[carmine sleet]

Well yeah, they are purposely not telling us too much about the Orions

[vagrant ocean]

Aspects of ORION are still highly classified even by 2560, over 200 years since it first began.

[severe gorge]

Theres also the issue of data corruption and decomposition

Some of that data just sorta faded since it wasn’t maintained as it wasn’t relevant to until the 2490s

[vagrant ocean]

When it comes to Project: MELANO very little is known outside 2 pieces being made prior to the war and allegedly a full suit deployed during the war.

[vagrant ocean]

Even the data from the final iteration is highly classified.

[severe gorge]

Also it mentions “degenerative diseases” developing in the ORION Five, pretty sure it was just rapidly developing cancer

[vagrant ocean]

Not just that

[severe gorge]

Well yeah, I meant the early versions

[vagrant ocean]

Probably neurological issues as well.

[severe gorge]

Obviously PHASE II is legitimately classified for. Well. Obvious reasons

[vagrant ocean]

047 died from dioxin poisoning.

[severe gorge]

OPERATION TANGLEWOOD probably was concealed because of the nature of the information retrieved

[vagrant ocean]

The key issues of the ORION program are ones that for the most part were fixed in the Spartan-II program.

[severe gorge]

It is mentioned that the earliest forms of SPARTAN Rages were scene during the ORION era, the bloodlusts that SPARTANs feel at times

Referenced as “Hormone induced rages”

I don’t know if thats the correct term but when I write the script I’ll find the right term

[vagrant ocean]

The biggest issues were biological and physiological incompatibility with the augmentations, solved by conducting genetic and biological screening of Spartan-II candidates and augmenting them right before puberty.

The other issue was how unrefined the augmentations were,

[severe gorge]

When you say they developed neurological diseases I’d assume you mean like Alzheimer’s?

and dementia? That sorta thing?

I feel so bad for the ORIONs because they were treated like dirt and then swept under the rug

[vagrant ocean]

That, Parkinson’s, MS,

Diseases with similar symptoms to Prion disease

[severe gorge]

I will say I will never not find OPERATION CHARLEMAGNE absolutely hilarious

God it makes me laugh every time I read about ti

[vagrant ocean]

Again, poor compatibility with the augmentations and the lack of genetic screening for proper candidates led to the failure of ORION, that and funding.

[severe gorge]

165 troops no detection 1 casualty complete success that sparked conspiracy theories and propaganda movements for years

[severe gorge]

It feels very rushed on the part of ONI

[vagrant ocean]

They also lost 4 ships.

[vagrant ocean]

If they had access to the 24th century data, it might’ve improved things slightly.

[severe gorge]

Gonna edit the Wiki to add that

[vagrant ocean]

Also I’m not sure if Halsey was given ALL data on ORION when hired

[vagrant ocean]

Halopedia lists it.

[severe gorge]

I think she to some degree went “Yeah thats cool and all but what if..?” And then made the most effective soldiers humanity has ever known

[vagrant ocean]

Well I’m saying that if she had ALL the data she might’ve been able to improve survival rates.

[severe gorge]

I don’t think she cared about survival rates that much

She wasn’t exactly the most morally correct person

[vagrant ocean]

Eh, she did to the extent that it would be a black mark on her work.

[vagrant ocean]

You mean ethical

[severe gorge]

Indeed my bad

She kinda seems like a terrible person and I frankly don’t like her

At all

[vagrant ocean]

From a utilitarian perspective of morality, she was correct.

[vagrant ocean]

Eh, her journal offers insights into her thought process later in life regarding the IIs

[severe gorge]

Kidnapping dozens of children replacing them with AI and then running them through some of the most physically and mentally challenging tests possible doesn’t seem like a very nice thing to do

[vagrant ocean]

Not AI, clones.

And being nice would jeopardize humanity

[severe gorge]

If the Covenant was already attacking honestly I wouldn’t have a problem but even with the knowledge of her findings, its still

Eh

[vagrant ocean]

The Insurrection was using nuclear weapons to kill civilians, something needed to be done.

[severe gorge]

Was it?

Or was that just ONI propaganda (I’m joking but I didn’t know that)

[vagrant ocean]

Yes, the Haven Arcology bombing.

10.3 million casualties

[sour raven]

Woah

[vagrant ocean]

2 million dead.

This doesn’t include the millions affected by radiation and the defects it causes

[severe gorge]

I think when this video is done its gonna be kinda insanely long

[empty bloom]

As an ethical framework, utilitarianism is untenable.

[empty bloom]

She is a horrible person and anyone sane dislikes her from that aspect. She is incredibly petty and narcissistic at best.

[severe gorge]

I’m familiar with Halo at a surface level but I’m currently deep diving. Its very fun

Also I have a Halo graphic novel. Its call3; “Initiation and Escalation” and its SPARTAN-IVs and the Didact. Is that lore relevant for the IVs?

[empty bloom]

IVs never really would've fought the Didact.

Not really an opportunity to do so; He spends most of his time in 4 in the Cryptum, and in N72H he is only encountered by Black Team and Blue Team.

[versed salmon]

I’m still annoyed they killed off one of the last Spartan-IIs in a comic

[empty bloom]

I'm personally thrilled that they died in the same medium they were introduced in.

Womp Womp, Black Team, shoulda been more interesting than a love triangle and a weirdly named sociopathic drone. Skill issue+ratio.

[orchid kettle]

My hot take is that a love triangle subplot kinda immediately makes Black Team more interesting than most Spartan teams

especially II teams

Like I like Envoy probably more than your average halo fan but I never really bought Gray Team's emotional struggle

Its kinda just all three characters feeling equally bad that they did a bad thing with limited information

when maybe it would feel more impactful if like, one character was super against the decision and kept holding that over Jai's head as they progressed through the plot, culminating in a big blowout

and Melody I dunno uses her talky skills to get them to kiss and make up

but as i recall, they're just a lil angsty and then I guess they get over it

[frigid heart]

Gray team. 1000% based.

[empty bloom]

I mostly crap on it for being a bad fit for a II team and being somewhat sloppy.

[stoic hamlet]

I’ve always wondered if they should have even really cared?

Halo seems to want to try and go down the “OMG brainwashing bad”, but never actually shows why, because every time the II’s have some moral issue with it there’s no real reason they should due to the brainwashing.

I’ve always been of the mind that you show how bad brainwashing is by having other characters point it out, but have it not be broken, or have no doubts form in the brainwashed character.

It’s part of why Breaking Strain is one of my favourite Halo short stories, because it’s probably the closest we’ve come to seeing a Spartan II/III as they should be based on their upbringing.

[steel stone]

Quick question what was the longsword that crashed on tempest?

Was that ever explained anywhere?

[stoic hamlet]

https://www.halopedia.org/Longsword_91-002

[steel stone]

It says on an unknown Halo ring, could it be 04 from halo 1?

[stoic hamlet]

It’s hard to say. The map isn’t given a time/date stamp.

It could be 09 for all we know.

[steel stone]

thats nuts, thought by now it would be solved by now thats really interesting

[stoic hamlet]

Most maps rarely get a time or date stamp.

[steel stone]

theres a radio that plays on it so it might have something

[stoic hamlet]

It doesn’t give us anything on the date or time.

[ionic tiger]

I kinda reason it out that while they probably wouldn’t have cared to destroy a Covenant colony, finding out they did so after hostilities were over and potentially jeopardizing a tenuous peace would still be concerning.

[empty bloom]

It always feels like they want to push against the glass of horrors, but never actually want to open the door.

Which... Being fair, I don't think Halo fans could really handle an in-depth "Yes, this is wrong and this, this, this, and this are all explicitly and plain as day why she was wrong" or anything along those lines for topics Halo skims the surface of.

[ionic tiger]

Frankly, I don’t know if that kind of thing works from the perspective of a II. Whenever it comes up with Chief, he acknowledges what happened to him was probably wrong, but he’s found peace in it and considers the alternative, likely he’d be dead.

I can’t image many of the IIs would differ much.

[empty bloom]

I thought it was Fred who says that?

Or do they both say it?

Regardless, as true as that may be, I think it should be called out-though perhaps not to the II's faces-that that is likely an aftereffect of trauma and loss-coping.

After all, they'd be less effective soldiers if they felt bad about their fate.

[ionic tiger]

Pretty sure in Silent Storm Chief remarks about how the program turned him from a bad kid to something more.

Which, yeah that’s indoctrination talking. But how do you even try to convince Chief that what happened is something to be angry over?

For all its faults, I don’t hate the Kilo-5 team for being outraged at the Spartans origins. I just think their view on it was comically short sighted since they never made the connection their bosses were in on it

[empty bloom]

I think part of what kind of broke Naomi out of her stoicism was exposure to two things.