lore-and-universe

[stoic hamlet]

We don’t see him use it, but it’s likely he did.

[mint cave]

And I wonder how the longsword and pellican were able to dock.

[orchid kettle]

Silent Storm mentions how ever since Sam died that way, Chief has made sure to keep some suit patches or whatever on him at all times

[orchid kettle]

If I recall, they dock via a hatch that's located on top of either craft

have you ever noticed that there's like a ladder in the corner of the Pelican's troop bay, next to the door that leads to the pilot?

[obsidian thistle]

He had literal hours... (if you know... you know)

[mint cave]

I didn't. Nice spot of detail

[obsidian thistle]

I dub it the "weird lost time between Halo: The Flood/CE and First Strike" thing

[orchid kettle]

I think its only really there in Halo 3, but that's how I imagine it worked. The characters in the interior of the Pelican have to access the hatch somehow, after all.

[mint cave]

But one more.

So...the Spartans have tried and failed to invade and capture a covenant ship for near 30 years. Noble six and George do it, then in halo the flood, 200 Marines managed to do it with the truth and reconciliation. And then the master chief with the ascendant justice. Then Fred and blue team in ghosts of onyx. They clearly didn't try that hard to do it in the 28 years

[obsidian thistle]

(There is 8 hours unused between Halo: The Flood and First Strike. Its really funky and no one I know likes it)

[orchid kettle]

So they actually do it a ton in Silent Storm as well but its more so thwarted by the Covenant having the ships self destruct

Honestly the reason why it happens a ton in the year 2552 is because 2552 is when most of the story for the HCW takes place

so all the important stuff happens then

[mint cave]

Did anyone get paid in the final year of the war? I assume after hundreds of worlds are glassed and billions of humans die, your economy is gonna be in shambles. Did they just give food handouts and make weapons for free and keep the lights on for everyone since the covenant were so close to earth?

(money doesn't really matter when you're fighting to not go extinct

[orchid kettle]

One would assume. Halo's always been kinda hesitant to actually consider the effects the war would have beyond simply lost lives and territory.

At least when it comes to like, how the average person's life is impacted.

[karmic gulch]

Are there any mechs other than mantis still in use?

[empty bloom]

The Colossus, both models of Cyclops, and the Geyrion.

[karmic gulch]

Alr thanks

[orchid kettle]

They insist Johnson's Green Machine is canon even if his existence as a leader in HW2 isn't

Though I guess that's kinda blurring the line between mech and exo suit

[carmine sleet]

I was about to say, that's more of an exo suit

[stoic hamlet]

And it’s a shame IMO.

It’s ripe for storytelling.

Though I can understand the hesitation.

[mint cave]

They can easily tell that in like, short stories like they did recently with the dead space parody audio drama on that ancestor human ship.

Imagine how many reporters were silenced by Oni during the early war as they tried to hide the truth. Accountants looking at bank statements and seeing assets diverted to destroyers in the dozens, hundreds even, and never see these ships return from a so-called patrol or special military operation trying to get the truth out.

It's a miracle how Oni and the unsc kept the truth hidden from the public for so long.

Honestly, it's an impressive and terrifying feat.

And you wanna know what's funny? Lord hood knows EVERYTHING that's going on in human controlled space. Everything that was anything has appeared on his desk in the form of a document he needed to sign.

I can't imagine being a good person and still knowing about the atrocities Oni has committed.

God dammit, SO MUCH STORY POTENTIAL!!!!

THIS is why I started reading the books. These extra bits of lore are my lifeblood

[stoic hamlet]

You’re acting like ONI doing this makes them evil.

It’s based on real history. Both allied and axis governments during the world wars did it. It’s just basic propaganda and morale.

[mint cave]

Well...Oni kinda is evil. They're a shadow organization, they do the ugly stuff.

Oni is so horrible that corporal Locklear and Dr Halsey both came to the conclusion that it's better to destroy that forerunner slip space crystal than let Oni or the covenant get their hands on it. (Source: first strike.)

[obsidian thistle]

Tbf assuming ILBs holds

At least as much as it does

[empty bloom]

Halsey's opinion on anything ONI is suspect.

At any point in time, not just the present.

Part of the reason she got hit so hard post-war was because she was a walking INFOSEC and OPSEC risk; She gleefully and constantly acted as an insider threat out of pure drive to get as much information for herself and projects under her belt as she could.

[stoic hamlet]

That’s more because it basically guarantee the Covenant found earth, rather than worrying about ONI misusing it. The Gettysburg wouldn’t survive another Slipspace fight.

Locklear himself doesn’t agree with Halsey’s reasoning:

Why had the doc given him this to guard? She said because the ONI spooks wouldn't have the guts to get rid of it if they had to…would maybe even let it fall into Covenant hands. That made sense, but, at the same time, there was something not quite right with that explanation.

• Halo First Strike, chapter 30

He also admits earlier to Halsey that he would give it to ONI if ordered:

Locklear snorted. "Well, as much as I don't like El-Tee White-bread, I'd hand it over if ordered, too. What's the big deal, anyway? We're almost home."

[mint cave]

Was it because of the radiation it was giving off?

And that gives another plot hole. They destroyed like three covenant ships in slipspace (by the skin of their teeth) and went back in time by two weeks. How did the covenant know where to find them two weeks ago?

Cause like, a scout ship caught them with their pants down when they were Getting repairs with the rebels and they managed to point and aim the plasma turret with their Mac gun. And then 30 covenant ships came. How did they find them in a place they arrived before they left?

[mint cave]

Enough with the arguing, you're right about Oni not being evil. They are just very morally grey in most areas. Depending on who makes the decisions.

[hardy swan]

No one is good in this world

[mint cave]

There is one line in halo the flood that really tickles my fancy. Guilty spark said "your combat skin is only rated a 6 out of 12." And later when he finds the marine, the monitor says "he only has a combat skin rating of 2". So we've established the gap between marine armor and mark 5 mjolnir armor. Which is absolutely interesting. So I assume that odst armor would probably be a level 3. I bet the Elite combat armor And mirage (SPI) armor would be a level 4 as the gap between them and the mjolnir armor is pretty considerable.

We can also guess the 12. I believe it's the didact armor. As it's the strongest suit the forerunners made, for the strongest warrior.

How would we rate other armors?

[unique rune]

I don't think rating the Didact's personal armor as Class 12 really makes sense considering Spark recommends Class 12 as a minimum.
Mk. V (and probably MJOLNIR in general) is rated at Class 2.
Spark only says that Mobuto's UNSCMC BDU is "less suitable" than MJOLNIR.

Hard to really codify anything out of two vague data points.

No info on how the classifications work either. Maybe it's linearly scaled on some numerical attributes. Or it's logarithmically scaled. Or it could be dependent on an armor system's capabilities, akin to jet fighter generations (e.g. just as stealth is a major defining feature of 5th gen fighters maybe constraint field manipulation is something that defines Class 14 and above, etc).

[mint cave]

So what would constitute a 12? There wasn't much difference between 5 and 6 according to guilty spark. So let's assume that it's still a 6. What would gen 2 be? A 7? As it's able to be equipped with a bunch of different modules.

I'd say the forerunner warrior servants and ancestor warrior armor are probably a level 12 since they were on the front lines with the flood mostly.

[hardy swan]

And lost

[unique rune]

Spark never says anything about Class 5 and 6 as far as I can find, so I don't know where you're getting any of that.
Dialogue that he sometimes says when you get killed in Halo 3 implies that Mk. VI is still rated at Class 2 like Mk. V, so, again, I would expect MJOLNIR in general to not exceed Class 2.

Non-combat personnel are required to 
wear [combat skin] with a minimum 
rating of at least [Class 12] in 
non-restricted areas, once the fleet
is underway. [Class 14] or lesser
[combat skin] is acceptable in core
areas. Combat personnel will only be
permitted to wear [combat skin]
rated below [Class 8] in core areas,
once operations begin.

//FLEET-WIDE MEMORANDUM 2/5 
All combat personnel have been 
issued [combat skin] rated at 
[class 4 ~ 1] or [class 6 ~ 1 battle 
harness] depending on military 
occupational specialty.

All weapon platform specialists are 
expected to wear their issued 
[platform interface skin] at all 
times to insure peak [mind-machine 
synchronization].

All [equipment lockers] will remain 
sealed until post briefing gear 
distribution commences.```
Judging by Halo 3 Terminal text I would imagine frontline combat personnel were to wear Class 14 combat skins at minimum, if not higher. Though I also dunno what exactly entails a "core area", so.

Regardless it's still pretty much impossible to pin any of the ratings to anything since the criteria and scale have never been elaborated on.

[mint cave]

Keep in mind, I'm a halo noob. I finished the games (except 5) and now I'm reading the books. I played odst once when I was a kid and then one match of reach when I was a teen and now I'm like "wow I like halo" so now I'm kinda committed

[radiant rock]

Glad you're starting to get into it! There's lots of fun lore content out there to help you along that path

[sleek vigil]

You need to read the Forerunner triology!

Once you get there, ofc.

[mint cave]

Yeah definitely. I'm about to finish ghosts of onyx.

[karmic gulch]

I think Imma change my fireteams company to alpha because some of the alpha and beta 3s got pulled out.

[empty bloom]

With the amount of III OCs that have been 'pulled out' before Ops Torpedo and Prometheus, it's surprising that they had enough to have over 200 dead in either mission.

[karmic gulch]

true lol

and I need mk Vii for lore accuracy if their in current events?

[empty bloom]

Spartans deploy with a very wide range of armors by 2560.

Some even still wear GEN2.

[karmic gulch]

didnt locke?

[empty bloom]

Unsure.

[karmic gulch]

yeah since we never saw his full armor in infinite

[empty bloom]

By 2560 it could be any number of armors, including a previously unseen GEN3 Hunter variant.

Considering Hunter is a limited batch prototype carrier for the ARTEMIS system, I don't really know one way or the other if they'd make a GEN3 version.

[karmic gulch]

for a world like zeta halo, which armor type would i want to use?

[empty bloom]

Well, Spartans didn't really choose to get stranded there.

If you had a choice, Rakshasa or Mirage IIC, but most Spartans didn't have a choice.

[karmic gulch]

I’m more so talking about a different world with the same type of terrain, environment, ETC

[empty bloom]

Really depends more on ops and support structure than mission environment.

[karmic gulch]

Ok

[empty bloom]

Like, there's exceptions-OSTEO/HAZMAT would be more appropriate regardless of mission type if you're dealing with a massive CBRN situation.

But overall your armor would be determined by what your squad's doing and how much support they have.

[karmic gulch]

What’s Rakasha good for?

[empty bloom]

Long-term combat jaunts with minimal to no support of any kind.

[strange pumice]

Best looking design
Hoping it will be in the possible next Halo game

[karmic gulch]

What about mk vii?

[empty bloom]

Short-to-medium-term high-performance assault-focused armor that errs towards more of a generalist mindset.

Mirage IIC is a low-performance stealth armor that has more in common with Rakshasa than Mark VII.

Mark IV is a museum piece that is likely being used more out of desperation than actual desire, with all indication showing that it would likely perform worse than Mark VII in any appreciable measure short of ease of repair.

Ditto with Mark Vb, though less so.

[karmic gulch]

Alr

Probably Mk vii or Rakasha then

[strange pumice]

Possible all Spartan 4 now wearing MKVII rather than Rakshasa, but it always depends on mission or operations

[karmic gulch]

What about 3s?

[empty bloom]

Cough cough Dinh, Eklund

[strange pumice]

Jun is only? 3s Spartan, so maybe he is still on MK V B

[karmic gulch]

Alr

[carmine sleet]

IIIs can wear the same armour sets as IVs, it'd depend on the mission they're going on

Like, if a III is being deployed in the same way as a standard IV is, they'll likely be wearing Mark VII

[karmic gulch]

Ok

[carmine sleet]

But if they're on a mission like what Dinh and Eklund were on before they showed up in Infinite's multiplayer story, they'd likely have Rakshasa or Mirage on

[karmic gulch]

Alr

[strange pumice]

Ain't 3s augmentation and 4s augmentation process are different?

[karmic gulch]

Which would be a mission pretty deep in banished territory?

[carmine sleet]

Yes but that doesn't prevent them from wearing the same armour as other generations of Spartans. It's never been a limitation of the augmentations for the IIIs to be wearing different armour to the preceeding generation, they were given SPI armour because Mjolnir was too costly to mass produce at that scale at the time

[carmine sleet]

Aye

[karmic gulch]

Ok

Yeah so then Rakasha

[strange pumice]

Also
Why didn't UNSC use FPV drones on the ground missions?
Or they used it or just didn't mention it?

[stoic hamlet]

Also MJOLNIR was ill-suited to the typical III mission set.

But it was mostly cost.

[stoic hamlet]

They do/did.

but you need to remember Halo was originally conceived as a retro-future of the late 90’s, it’s not going to be “our” future. Technology would advance differently, doctrine, etc.

[empty bloom]

Guh.

I just spent the past 20 minutes compiling data for a bug report.

Thanks, ADHD meds.

[empty bloom]

It's a pretty common teething issue for IPs developed in the late 90s/early aughts.

[carmine sleet]

Aye. It's like with cars, one designed to go fast around a track is not going to be well suited for going off road environments. They both have the same basic purpose, taking you from one place to another, but their differences allow them to excel in different areas

[stoic hamlet]

I wouldn’t necessarily call it an issue per se. I think trying to add in drones and stuff retroactively is where things get weird.

[empty bloom]

My kingdom for a Spartan wearing a tabard, Space Marine style.

[stoic hamlet]

Dark Angels hiss

We stan the Rout in this igloo.

[empty bloom]

I'm not a big Dark Angels fan, more just posting what I mean.

Actually, I'm pretty consistently dissappointed in Halo's choices of armor.

We get soooo many helmet variants that it beggars belief, but next to nothing for supplemental gear.

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah.

I feel that.

[empty bloom]

You feet that?

[stoic hamlet]

Hue

[empty bloom]

But yeah-with the adoption of UE5, as much as it kinda makes me chafe, it makes me hope we get more cloth-based stuff on MJOLNIR.

[stoic hamlet]

But yeah, I’m surprised we don’t have like, a SPNKR tube as a thigh/hip/waist attachment, for example.

Or a bandolier of Railgun ammo, etc.

[empty bloom]

A freaking ghillie suit.

I've been wanting to have a ghillie suit armor set in a Halo game since 2007.

[sonic lagoon]

There is fan art

[unique rune]

which is
not in a game like they were asking for

[elfin pelican]

hello

[thorn spindle]

ping bait you wont trap me

[sonic lagoon]

They will probably add something like that at some point as a skin.

[empty bloom]

Y'know, I wonder if there's any canon behind mystery front ONI Spartan.

This guy.

Doubt it, but it'd be neat.

[gusty star]

I feel like he’s gonna show up in the waypoint chronicle

[dusk jetty]

My guess? Something to do with that Oni door we saw in season 3/4

I like the idea of individual Spartans operating entirely within ONI as pseudo headhunters of sorts

More internal affairs though

“Hey yeah this governor of this world needs to die, off the record, go do it however you want”

[latent junco]

I actually have an OC with a very similar background to that lol

[wispy pewter]

Ground Branch ahh spartans

[empty bloom]

I mean, that is implied to be what Locke was for before he headed Osiris.

That said, all of the Spartans of Osiris have some measure of their prior branch on their armor.

And their squad logo is a mixture of all four.

[dusk jetty]

I imagine he compiled files pretty similar to the one on Thel in H2A

Observe, record, if necessary, act

[empty bloom]

... Actually, come to think of it, I feel like most IV squads try very hard to never have branch/special forces unit repeats.

Majestic had two ODSTs but was also notably overstrength, for example.

A9 is more of an ad-hoc abnormality than normal.

Dinh and Eklund work together, one being former ONI and the other being former Army Rangers.

[dusk jetty]

I’d like more army rangers

Hell I’d like more army in general

[wispy pewter]

Goes into planet in his 400 kilogram Mjolnir telling everyone it's definitely ONI

[empty bloom]

I doubt most Spartans deployed in that manner are actually seen for very long... And certainly not by someone who lives.

Also, come to think of it, one of the most common things you see IVs do is steal aircraft, lmao

[hardy swan]

We need a Tom Clancy Halo book fr

That two OdSTs that managed to fly an alien space ship

Idk how that’s even possible

[unique rune]

They’re flight controls for a craft operated by intelligent humanoid aliens about the same size as humans
They’d probably be intuitive enough on their own but even failing that humanity was fighting them for nearly 30 years

They’d probably captured enough for research to develop simulations on how to operate them

[empty bloom]

Every mainline Covenant species is bipedal with two hands.

[unique rune]

Mickey outright even says he’d previously run simulations in campaign dialogue, even if it had been a while

[empty bloom]

I actually don't see why the controls would really even be that different.

Like-every Covenant species has nearly identical ergonomic needs and limitations to humans, at least in terms of how they move.

Two arms, two hands, at least one thumb, and two or more fingers.

You have a variety of species with the same style of elbow joint and similar wrist joints; They don't carry anything particularly differently.

[wispy pewter]

5 finger superiority

[empty bloom]

🙄

Anyways

Controls would be similar.

[wispy pewter]

imagine if covie computers used qwerty

[hardy swan]

Why would they have an English keyboard

[sleek vigil]

That's something that still doesn't sit right with me. Like, why is Sangheili made to match English alphabet??

[sleek vigil]

Their hands are just very large.

[fossil pier]

does anyone know if any spartans would still be using mkv (b) by the time of halo infinite? I know mk7 is the predominate set worn by spartan 4s but did they ever use that armor by the time of infinite?

[obsidian thistle]

Answer is yes.

Source: Halo Infinite armory during season 2.

[fossil pier]

appreciate it, thanks man.

[obsidian thistle]

Even then lore says Mark V (B) was updated to newer standards circa Halo Infinite

So even without that Spartan, one could imply that its used!

[stoic hamlet]

We know the III’s had actual covenant weapons and vehicles to test on, during their training. And yeah, as the war progressed, simulations were likely made for everyone

[orchid kettle]

Im pretty sure both in the comic and in one of the books, you see that piloting a Phantom is like interacting with this lil globe thing that spins around as you move it

Oh some level I feel like there's always the built in excuse of like, "Covenant reverse-engineered everything from Forerunner technology. The Librarian implanted a geas in mankind that allowed us to operate Forerunner technology on an instinctual level. Ergo, humans Covenant technology strangely intuitive."

granted the whole "Woah, why do I know how this works?" angle only really came up in The Flood, where Chief knew how to operate the lightbridge controls despite being presented with it for the first time.

but this is honestly how I explain stuff like Jerome being able to plug his human-made data chip into the Enduring Conviction

Forerunners invented USB and humans and aliens both use it as well because we're both essentially copying them for different reasons

Why the characters themselves never question this, i dunno

[karmic gulch]

I feel the best way to be lore accurate for 179 is to change is company back to gamma

[hardy swan]

Must be pretty intelligent to be able to fly an aliens ship with the only experience being some holodeck experience years ago

[wispy pewter]

but did they invent USB C

[karmic gulch]

would refitted Mk V (b) be poplular among the spartan 3s?

[stoic hamlet]

Popularity isn’t really part of the equation, it’s more what they’d need for the mission at hand.

Obviously they’d have preferences, but that’s not really dependant on armour.

[karmic gulch]

Oh ok

What would they use mk v b in?

[sleek vigil]

Like how you pilot a Covenant Corvette in the Halo TV show?

[sleek vigil]

Spartan: “Ma’am, I just inserted my chip into the alien construct and it accessed our entire battle network.”
ONI Officer: “And?”
Spartan: “It shouldn’t be possible.”
ONI Officer: “You’re in the wrong franchise if you're expecting sense.”

“Oi, how come every bloody alien gizmo we find has the exact same port as my toaster?”

[ionic tiger]

Coulda swore something like it came up in First Strike when Fred was operating a Wraith.

[obsidian thistle]

Now it's even more obvious I do Wiki stuff!

[karmic gulch]

Would Mk. VII be the best for space combat/other things like that plus ground combat?

[obsidian thistle]

I'd say depends on the set.

And use case

Pending stuff some GEN2 sets may be better

[karmic gulch]

Like with booster frames and stuff

[karmic gulch]

Also

Has their ever been a Spartan in command of a frigate?

[unique rune]

I'm inclined to say no because you'd probably have to see a pretty horrific collapse in the chain of command for something like that to happen

[empty bloom]

Largely irrelevant. As CIA said-some GEN2 variants offer some boons here that GEN3 just doesn't have around.

[karmic gulch]

Alr

[karmic gulch]

Ok

[latent olive]

Hey I’d like some help about a question of mine.
So in halo CE, the Covenant accidentally release the flood, mistaken the place for a “weapons cache” how did they get that information, from where and by whom?

[sour raven]

Prophets or ancient relic probs and probably some mistranslations

[sleek vigil]

Probably by some form of Forerunner artefact thing. They often tent to brute force their way into Forerunner stuff.

[carmine sleet]

Don't forget the Covenant also have a track record for mistranslating Forerunner language, they did mistranslate Reclaimer as Reclamation after all

[latent olive]

I see.

[obsidian thistle]

So what yer saying is I am better than the Covenant

Neato

[carmine sleet]

Yes

[unique rune]

The thing about the “weapons cache” thing is that we only ever hear about in-game like, once, and that’s through Cortana mentioning that Keyes went to look for it

The Flood gives some added context with ‘Qualomee, since he’d supposedly been part of a unit that delivered a shipment of weapons to the swamp
So presumably the Covenant would’ve “found out” because it was their weapons cache to begin with

Whether or not that was the original intent of the game I have no idea but basically the Covenant didn’t necessarily think that the Flood storage facility was a weapons cache, it was just that Keyes had intel suggesting the Covenant were aware of weapons being supplied to that area for whatever reason

[orchid kettle]

Part of me thinks it'd be pretty neat if the Flood themselves somehow sent out that message to lure in some unsuspecting victims

If only because I think I'd prefer it if the Flood were actively trying to break out instead of the characters just being so bumbling that they release the greatest threat the galaxy has ever known

[bronze prawn]

I always though the "flood parts" of a halo ring should be WAY more defended, in and out, just in case

[obsidian thistle]

Spark was preoccupied with the excitement pretty much.

[mint cave]

I think halo wars 2 has the best marketing of any halo game.

[empty bloom]

I could believe it, but that doesn't have a lot to do with lore.

[ionic tiger]

I feel that's kind of a byproduct of Halo going on for so long. In the universe, the Covenant have encountered the Flood before based on the item descriptions for things like the Temple Wraith from 5. You've got the presence of groups like the Governors of Contrition who believed the Flood to be a Forerunner creation and therefore holy. So they SHOULD have approached a facility holding the Flood with way more caution...but alas that was in 2001 at the start.

[empty bloom]

Hmn, actually, there's something they could do to fix that.

Recanonize the outbreak as basically being three factors coming together at once.

Examples of fixes;

• Keyes heard wrong, it was a storage facility and the Covenant were going to secure it. No weapons were involved, but desperation and fatigue left him hearing it wrong.
• The Covenant was unaware that it was a flood storage facility
• The Covenant tried to be proactive in killing off the flood in the facility and it backfired, hard
• Guilty Spark had an 'inspired' moment of experimentation with his new guests and it went awry

[tight badge]

Guys I got into a debate over the forerunners vs war in heaven Necrons what are the feats of the forerunners

[unique rune]

top ten best resale value according to Kelley Blue Book for eight years in a row

[empty bloom]

Necrons have the Celestial Orrery and literal time travel, they win by default.

[junior coral]

how big would a ship that was 359,765,343,541,851 tons be and how many infinites could it hold like how the infinity can hold 10 Anlace-class light frigates? and could some one maybe do some concept art?

when i asked chat GPT it was horrendous

[stoic hamlet]

You shouldn’t ever really trust AI, their information is always suspect to flat out wrong.

[junior coral]

ANOTHER CANADIAN LETS GOO

[junior coral]

ik

i just suck at art

[stoic hamlet]

You know it ‘by.

[junior coral]

?

[stoic hamlet]

Newfie slang. Not from out east I take it.

Ah, yeah, from BC. Or so your profile says. Nice.

[junior coral]

ye

who you chering for?

[stoic hamlet]

For what? Hockey? Leafs. My family’s Newfie, but I’m in Ontario.

[junior coral]

a ok jets for me, parents were borne there

[royal oar]

What happened to Auntie Dot after Halo Reach?

[gusty star]

No one knows but prob got destroyed

[safe prism]

She's in the cave with Noble Six

[karmic gulch]

lol

[wild vine]

six died :[

[karmic gulch]

RIP noble six, we salute your sacrifice

[wild vine]

he literally could have left after he dismounted the mac gun or whatever it was though right?

[karmic gulch]

I’m pretty sure there was no way to get off planet

[wild vine]

pelican

[karmic gulch]

Technically there could be an operational one, he could have been trying to find one but then died

[wild vine]

perhaps

[karmic gulch]

Yeah

[wild vine]

he was in a different location on the last mission so either he was just impersonating doom slayer or he was looking

[karmic gulch]

That’s what I’m thinking

[stoic hamlet]

He was heading to a Rally Point.

But by that point there was no way off world.

[karmic gulch]

Ohhhhhh

[karmic gulch]

If there was no way off world, then what was the rally point for?

[stoic hamlet]

There was no way off world because they’d have been shot down. There was still physical ways off planet, like dropships, ahd etc. they’d just never make it.

[karmic gulch]

Oh

What would Mk V B be used for in infinite?

[hardy swan]

for spartans

[karmic gulch]

But like what type of missions?

[wild vine]

woah

[unique rune]

probably just desperation and lack of other supplies

[hardy swan]

when all the latest ones are taken they have to take the spares

[karmic gulch]

oh ok

thanks

[eager salmon]

So spartan II is better than a spartan V?

[unique rune]

well
a Spartan that exists is better than one that doesn’t
so I guess

But I mean really the Spartan-IIs are technically superior in some aspects to the S-IVs but not really to any meaningful extent

[hardy swan]

Did you know Chief was wearing briefs and a red cape during the fall of reach?

[unique rune]

And definitely not in any way that justifies the myriad of ethical problems involved (not that anything should justify them) or the horrific inefficiences of the program as a whole

[dusk jetty]

Spartan program is a great example of defending something conceptually indefensible

Whoever wrote that story and the dynamics between Halsey and the spartans has my respect

Do the ends truly justify the means

[prisma sierra]

that saying goes for a lot of actual history as well tbh

[versed helm]

What's the difference between grunt colors in halo infinite. The whole system of ranks and colors used to be linear in older games but now I'm confused

[unique rune]

The color mostly just denotes their equipment

Orange-armored Conscripts carry plasma pistols, blue-armored have Needlers
Red Assault get Disruptors, purple have plasma pistols

[gusty star]

Which is so stupid lmao

[unique rune]

I mean it's mostly a gameplay thing and makes sense from that perspective
Armor shape/silhouette had been increasingly important as a rank distinguisher in Halo since like
arguably Halo 2 while color slowly became less important

[dusk jetty]

Orange is lowest rank, they have Plasma pistols, mule is technically an unranked class but probably is low in the hierarchy. They carry weapons and have distruptors.
Blue are a step above the lowest and always have needlers
Red is grunt majors and always have distruptors
Grunt rangers and ultras are white and can have needlers or distruptors although plasma pistols seem to be possible for them as well.

Ultras have shields, rangers don’t

[carmine sleet]

There's no Grunt Rangers in Infinite

[dusk jetty]

Unshielded ultra then

Rangers are 4/5, got mixed up

[carmine sleet]

There's the conscripts, which come in orange and blue, the lowest ranking Grunts, then there's the Assaults, which are the red and purple ones (Emperor Nova already mentioned these two). After that you have the Mules, which are the ones which carry extra weapons on their backs. Then we have Ultras and their shielded counterparts, the Grunt Bouncers

[versed helm]

I have never heard the term bouncer

Also if the banished don't believe in the great journey (does anyone anymore) what are the elites and brutes that look like zealots

All I know is ultra= white higher rank with typically better guns,gold used to be highly religious zealots but apparently now means they are a "warlord" but like what is the difference between an ultra and a war lord?,what's the main difference between elite majors and ultras?, are brutes higher ranking than elites or are both seen as relatively equal but have different attributes and skills they use, are brute berserkers low ranking if they don't have weapons and are thrown at you expendably? Or are they considered honorable which is why they are given specially designed armor for hand to hand contact? Why don't the banished just paint the old covenant colored armor or something? Why have I seen shielded banished be referred to as "chosen".

Can someone just point me to a YouTube video ...

Oh also why are normal grunts conscripts but higher ranking ones aren't? Is it because they regain their pre existing heightened rank they had as a part of the covenant? Conscript means they themself chose to join. Are ultras just the same thing as spec ops now? I'm going to implode...

What causes banished hunters to be more aggressive? Tf is a skimmer? Why weren't brutes in the 343 era covenant? Who commanded the fobs and like helped restructure the UNSC after infinite. Leading a whole army doesn't seem really much of a chief type of thing

[carmine sleet]

You're asking allot of questions all at once

Like, slow down a little

[carmine sleet]

Bouncer is a rank new to Infinite and exclusive to the Banished, like I said, it's the shielded white Grunts you encounter

[carmine sleet]

Not sure which Banished Brutes and Elites you think look like Zealots

[carmine sleet]

Warlords are higher ranked than Ultras but they are not Zealots. Majors are a lower rank than Ultra. Brutes and Elites have roughly equal standing within the Banished. Berserkers are just kinda crazy. And much of the Banished gear is old Covenant stuff, both repainted or modified, we see this with the Banshee and Ghost most prominently. "Chosen" just means they're higher ranked within the Banished than others

[carmine sleet]

Banished Hunters being more aggressive is likely just for the sake of gameplay. If you played Halo Infinite, you would see Skimmers in action, they're the small floating aliens you encounter in the campaign. We don't know much outside of them being loyal to the Harbinger. Brutes weren't in Jul's Covenant because Jul 'Mdama didn't like them, with the real world reasoning being 343 didn't want to feature Brutes in Halo 4 and 5. We don't know the status of UNSC leadership on Zeta Halo

[fair hazel]

The story, battle of the academy

[drowsy mesa]

Well, next part definitely we'll see || Dinh vs Zane ||

[unborn patrol]

that was a looot of lore

[unborn patrol]

maybe he means the golden ones? since they got the large head crest

with brutes no idea tho

[carmine sleet]

The Elite Warlords?

[unborn patrol]

Im not sure what they are either

[carmine sleet]

Hold up, I was getting them confused with the Elite Warriors of Halo 4 and 5's Covenant

Which are gold Elites in very similar armour

[unborn patrol]

has there ever been like a better lore explenation for the kind of armor the elites wear? like if stuff other than arbiter is somewhat based on their own culture or something

because it kind of feels like the golden armour for example kind of shifts a lot through the games in rank and meaning

feel like if they locked in those wouldnt shift as much

the zealot armor should and does feel distinctively covenant

[carmine sleet]

Aye, yeah, Reach is where it changed things up by giving us Zealots in armour, which I do feel fits them. It's also in a completely different colour to what they wore before

Like, had they just changed the design of the armour and left them gold, I imagine it'd be a little less confusing

But then that begs the question of what colour would Elite Generals wear, given those were the gold Elites of Reach

[unborn patrol]

Gold makes sense for general I think

[obsidian thistle]

Oh yea visual on Jun.

Nice to see their doing well

[carmine sleet]

I need to catch up on the latest Chronicle, nice to know Jun wasn't on Laconia when it blew

[real kayak]

Jun is gonna whoop some banished booty

[real kayak]

That'd be awesome

[versed helm]

Yeah

[karmic gulch]

Out of Mirage IIC, Mk VII and MK V (B), which is the most well rounded in protection and stealth?

[real kayak]

Mirage

[karmic gulch]

ok

thanks

[unique rune]

Mk V[B] is functionally just going to be worse Mk VII

[latent junco]

Mirage or Mark VII
There's a lot of Mark VII parts for stealth modification iirc

Mark VII has better protection/plating and shielding than Mirage too in lore

I'm pretty sure

[junior coral]

What would a ship 343x bigger than the Infinity

[hardy swan]

The Death Star

[versed helm]

Bigger. Starkiller Base

[hardy swan]

Wait so what happened to the cutscene where ONI comes into the room?

[versed helm]

ONI didn’t want it, so they got rid of it. You know, their power isn’t limited to content inside the game, they control this world as well

[hardy swan]

Someone please kill Ilsa Zane

She lasted way too long in lore

[karmic gulch]

How long has she been in the lore?

[hardy swan]

Ever since she appeared in that comic in like 2011 I think

[karmic gulch]

😱

[karmic gulch]

What would the morrigan helmet be used for?

[unique rune]

tracking probably
like the helmet’s description from Infinite says

[karmic gulch]

alr

[junior coral]

We must elemenat dr Halzy

[stoic hamlet]

Mirage is the better stealth suit. Mainline MJOLNIR still hasn’t fixed the issue of having a nuclear reactor as its power source.

[real kayak]

Well it's a mini nuclear reactor but yeah

[vagrant ocean]

Anyone have any thoughts on what Project JAVELIN might be? This is the first time it’s been mentioned in 15 years and lore wise it’s been almost a decade.

[carmine sleet]

I'll be disappointed if it isn't just a large javelin

[vagrant ocean]

lol

I just wanna see more super soldiers that aren’t Spartans.

[carmine sleet]

I imagine Javelin isn't a super soldier program per say so much as it was likely similar to GUNGNIR and MJOLNIR where it was making stuff for use by Spartans

But we do have some other super soldiers at least, like the Venesian Janissaries, Covenant Prelates and whatever the CEO of Optican is cooking up with his own super soldier program

And well, we also have the single Executor made by Sloan from the guy who left the datapads all over Reach

[vagrant ocean]

In Halsey’s journal she mentions that she thinks all but one member of NOBLE team are either next generation Spartans, or members of Project JAVELIN. “The way these others move, they’re clearly augmented.”

“Or, as I suspect from their inelegant personas, are they substandard versions of the Spartan-IIs? Perhaps from a parallel program (JAVELIN?), or some next-gen venture piggybacking on the last three decades of my work.”

Which implies there might’ve been another super soldier program operating alongside either the II or III programs, perhaps ran by another Section Three team or even the Army?

A refinement of ORION using lessons learned from it and its successor?

[coarse ridge]

Does anyone think the insurrectionist war was really going to be as bad as oni / Halsey believed?

If covenant and forerunners never showed up,

How do you think the inserectionist war would have gone?

Would human civilization really have “collapsed”?

[carmine sleet]

The Forerunners didn't show up in the Human-Covenant War. They were all dead apart from a couple exceptions

[orchid kettle]

Personally I find it unlikely, and it always felt like what they feared more than anything was the emergence of a rival power in human space

[hardy swan]

Based on simulations yeah

But I feel like kidnapping 70+ kids for a super soldier program is kinda dumb?
Instead of investing in building a huge fleet or building the Death Star

[orchid kettle]

Problem with a foe like the Insurrectionists is that they're embedded in the civilian population

so i guess its easier to just send a team of supersoldiers to assassinate a guy rather than risk all the bad PR you get from nuking a planet

you also may want them captured alive like Watts so you can find more cells that are in hiding

[vagrant ocean]

The math said it would’ve. If not collapsed it would’ve been HEAVILY fractured.

[vagrant ocean]

Precisely.

[vagrant ocean]

It was a very good investment. Elite soldiers trained since childhood to root out and destroy rebel elements. Blue Team accomplished what might’ve taken a fleet to achieve.

Not to mention such an operation being conducted by even the most elite UNSC operatives would’ve caused a ruckus.

It’s easier to use purpose built soldiers whose existence is only known by a handful of people

[coarse ridge]

How do you guys imagine the conflict woukd have gone?

Full civil war?

A huge chunk of the colonies declaring independence?

Would it become more open warefare or stay more guerrilla warfare?

[vagrant ocean]

It’d be hybrid warfare. More organized groups would possibly align with each other and try to build a naval force, traitors within the UNSCDF and CMA would still provide support to them. The best bet would be to use the Spartans as infiltration teams to completely eliminate Insurrectionist strongholds and large vessels (I wouldn’t be surprised if a group like the URF has a small cruiser or large destroyer) and to assassinate or capture Insurrectionist leaders. The strategic implementation of tactical nuclear devices on frontier worlds where there’s barely a population outside of rebels would also be good.

I predict that if the first class of Spartan-IIs are successful refinements to the augmentation process creating either a second Spartan-II class under Halsey or the more likely 3rd generation created by Ackerson.

And this is assuming ZERO Covenant contact.

Just things going as planned.

The issue of Soren-066 would come up at some point, and the IIs would have to dispatch him.

As mentally unstable as some of the washouts were, I think Soren was the worst of them given his antisocial behavior and tried to kill his stepfather.

[orchid kettle]

I always really liked Soren and that realization he had that the man he revolved his entire life hating might have just been a normal guy in a bad situation trying his best

and Soren went and irreversibly ruined his own life just because he didn't like the guy

Its always felt strange to me how Halsey afforded Soren the special privilege of choosing, but I think that was an important aspect of it all since Soren's unmaking needs to be something he actively chose

[vagrant ocean]

If anything a capture mission on Soren in this theoretical would be to either recover ONI assets, or to simply put him out of his misery.

[hardy swan]

probably trying to be independent. Which will cause the UNSC to launch a full scale war

But we know the UNSC just let's these innie worlds be and create their own super soldier programs and joining the Banished

[vagrant ocean]

Not like the UNSC has a choice, it’s fractured.

[hardy swan]

The fear of Catherine Halsey (or ONI) comes true then. Even after the Spartan Programe and all that. Full scale war with the innies is inevitable

[vagrant ocean]

Well, its not like they’re actually independent

It’s more so a war against the Banished and Insurrectionists happen to be there.

[real kayak]

So anyways

Why wouldn't the Precursors intervene

Doesn't make sense

They are effectively gods

With God tier powers

They could just Thanos snap the Covenant out of existence

Like they are still alive and their chosen race is being genocided right before their eyes

By a group that worships the FORERUNNERS of all people

[amber solstice]

I wonder if it was some kind of elevated cultural restriction, like in Star Trek: one of the Federation's most foundational pillars is to not interfere with other nations and peoples.

[real kayak]

I mean maybe, but they did already choose to give humanity the Mantle

So why not help them get back to their Ancient Human level of power which was unfairly stripped by the Forerunners

[amber solstice]

Similar to how, even though a predator may literally be approaching a cute baby penguin right in front of a nature photographer, they abide by their code to not intervene.

This would also make sense if the Precursors viewed themselves as so superior, like humans vs animals today.

But I'm purely guessing

[real kayak]

I mean if I were that photographer I would have intervened

[amber solstice]

but the thing is that, in actuality, professional nature photographers do not intervene. It's one of their highest standards and requirements.

[real kayak]

And the Precursors are all individuals, so your telling me that not ONE survivor didn't go "Hey, maybe we shouldn't let these crazy guys genocide the humans?"

[carmine sleet]

The Precursors were all but wiped out by the Forerunners, the few who do remain live in seclusion, such as Netherop, where until the native people were wiped out by a weapon of Precursor design ravaging the planet's ecosystem, they nurtured and helped them develop their technology

[real kayak]

Which is why I'd never be one because I absolutely would intervene

[amber solstice]

I'm sure emotionally many wanted to, but the code against intervention would naturally be strict, specifically because it's to prevent strong emotional urges.

[real kayak]

That's because the Precursors let themselves get wiped out

They could've stopped the Forerunners

[real kayak]

I mean maybe, but at the least they shouldn't have let humanity get completely wiped out when they are their chosen race

Like we really could've used them

[carmine sleet]

I'm curious, when you learnt the Jedi were almost completely wiped out by Order 66, were you upset with the few who remained and didn't immediately start fighting against the Empire?

[amber solstice]

But that's our perspective, which we naturally default to. But a non-intereference code could have restricted action until it was too late.

But I see ADV Eon typing so I'll sit back and let the experts talk

[real kayak]

Yes they absolutely should've immediately started a resistance and they could've done a lot

[hardy swan]

poor penguin

[carmine sleet]

Oh I'm no expert on the Precursors sadly

[real kayak]

But like they at the least should've sent some message to the Covenant pretending to be their "gods" telling them to chill tf out

[hardy swan]

because the humans didn't help them during the Precurser Forerunner war

[real kayak]

And also, why did they let the FLOOD attack the galaxy not once, but twice

The Flood goes completely against their philosophy AND is led by an insane precursor's consciousness

[real kayak]

They aren't that petty

Well, the Primordial was

And I would love to see an argument between the Primordial/Gravemind and the Individual Precursors just absolutely demolishing him and watching the Flood itself just disappear completely as the Precursors convince the Primordial to get mental help lol

Plus the Precursors absolutely should have just locked the Primordial's mind away

Like in some sort of Space/Time soul prison

[stoic hamlet]

It’s not against their philosophy in the sense that they like and abide all life. The flood is life. In a warped form.

[real kayak]

But the Mantle explicitly also says that the DIVERSITY of life must be protected

[vagrant ocean]

Remember the last time their presence was known? They almost got wiped out. The survivors long ago decided to stay out of galactic affairs.

[real kayak]

The Flood is effectively just one organism

[stoic hamlet]

That, and we have non-Flood precursors with a similar mentality as the Primordial, so evidently it’s not just him.

[vagrant ocean]

And yet the Precursors became the Flood.

[stoic hamlet]

No, it’s every organism that’s ever lived, as long as it’s consumed.

[real kayak]

No they Became the Flood

Brb

[stoic hamlet]

We see this in Human Weakness

[vagrant ocean]

I legit just corrected it.

[vagrant ocean]

JOIN THE CHORUS

[vagrant ocean]

The detonation of the Rings would’ve freed him.

[vagrant ocean]

Yes. After their near extinction they essentially decided as a species to not intervene.

[sleek vigil]

Some of them are out there still, maybe they'll come back one day, with Librarian and Spark enacting the protocol to reseed their race. Some on Netherop, of course.

[vagrant ocean]

Doubt it. And the Librarian is chilling in the Domain with her Husbando

[sleek vigil]

Why does “Librarian's husbando and the ancient human warrior watching over the Halo universe from digital heaven” sounds kinda funny?

[vagrant ocean]

The Precursors were never cataloged,

[vagrant ocean]

Cuz it’s cool as hell

[sleek vigil]

I'm only saying something I faintly remember. I'm yet to read those books (Kelly Gay's), no spoilers please.

Going through Point of Light now (in parallel to Silent Storm), while summerising it for Halopedia.

[vagrant ocean]

I never read them, I just analyze all Halo lore.

[sleek vigil]

So you just absorbed Halopedia and Encyclopedia?

[vagrant ocean]

Pretty much, I roll a fatty, tank it, and it removes my autism’s power limiters.

[real kayak]

Yeah but only one form of it

[real kayak]

Yeah but like they still should follow their Mantle

[real kayak]

No, just the ones on Netherop and Bastion

[real kayak]

I mean like in modern Halo

[real kayak]

Two of them died on Bastion and were semi-reborn

[vagrant ocean]

They rejected it after the war.

[vagrant ocean]

But they were not cataloged.

Hence why they’ve been silent for 100 millennia.

[real kayak]

No, they never stated that they did

[real kayak]

They were still around so that doesn't matter

[vagrant ocean]

Clearly they have forsaken it.

[vagrant ocean]

In order for a species to be reseeded it needs to have been cataloged.

[real kayak]

But they didn't need to be reseeded

They've been alive the whole time in Netherop

[vagrant ocean]

Also that whole bit about the Mantle being to protect all life is not exactly how the Precursors viewed it.

[real kayak]

Well they all viewed it differently but some definitely viewed it that way

[vagrant ocean]

And yet they did nothing, because to intervene would disrupt the sweetness of the universe.

[real kayak]

But that sweetness was being destroyed by the Flood

Led by a mad Precursor

Who was destroying life

[vagrant ocean]

The Primordial disagreed, and as essentially the last Precursor at the time he determined that the Flood contributed to it by creating suffering,

“Listen to the silence. Ten million years of deep silence. And now, whimpers and cries; not of birth. That is what we bring: a great crushing weight to press down youth and hope.
No more will. No more freedom. Nothing new but agonizing death and never good shall come of it.”

[real kayak]

Yes but he clearly is going against the Mantle for petty revenge

He literally said nothing good will come of what he is doing

He KNOWS he isn't supposed to be doing that

And the Living Precursors absolutely should have stepped in and fixed his clearly damaged psyche

[vagrant ocean]

The sweetness of the Universe encompasses ALL experiences, even suffering and death.

"We are the Flood. There is no difference. Until all space and time are rolled up and life is crushed in the folds ... no end to war, grief, or pain. In a hundred and one thousand centuries ... unity again, and wisdom. Until then -sweetness."

[real kayak]

Then he wouldn't have said no good will come of it

Because the universe was getting sweetness

But he didn't

[vagrant ocean]

The Sweetness of the Universe is neither good nor evil.

[real kayak]

Pretty sure it's supposed to be good

And the other Precursors clearly disagree with the Primordial because they never revealed themselves when the Flood was at it's peak to join him

And even healed a woman who had a terminal prion disease

They didn't have to do that

But they did

They also tried to save the inhabitants of Netherop... But failed

Seems to be like they are benevolent

SO WHY DIDN'T THEY DO ANYTHING

[vagrant ocean]

No mention of it being good. “In a notion echoed in the Forerunner concept of Living Time, they believed that all things experienced by life, good or ill, were only "sweetness" to the living universe.[30] Consistent with these tenets, the Precursors wished to experience the hardships and struggles faced by all life firsthand by committing themselves to numerous cycles of evolution, technological advancement, death and rebirth over and over again.”

[real kayak]

Ok but what about what I just said?

Besides it wouldn't be viewed the same by all Precursors, as they were individuals who each would have a different interpretation of it

[carmine sleet]

I disappear for over an hour and I see the same conversation happening?

[vagrant ocean]

Except the fact they were probably gonna kill the Forerunners

[real kayak]

Well my question has yet to be answered in a satisfactory way

[real kayak]

They absolutely deserved it though

[vagrant ocean]

For what? Being arrogant? For being a failed experiment?

[real kayak]

You don't just Genocide what are effectively the super nice GODS of the Galaxy

[real kayak]

That and what they did to the galaxy following that genocide

The Netherop Precursors are benevolent which means that there must be something stopping them

[vagrant ocean]

Before the Precursor war the Precursors were going to exterminate the Forerunners, viewing them as a failed experiment.

[real kayak]

They were

And knowing what they did after

It was necessary

[vagrant ocean]

So a species being arrogant and prideful is enough to exterminate them?

That logic is MENTAL

[real kayak]

Yes, because the Precursors probably knew what they would become

[vagrant ocean]

Ok, let’s not grant them abilities we don’t know they have.

[real kayak]

Tbh if the Precursors were in any of my Stellaris games I think they'd want to exterminate the entire galaxy

Everyone is just evil lol

[real kayak]

It doesn't take seeing the future to tell the Forerunners were gonna turn into insane totalitarians ruling the galaxy

[vagrant ocean]

You have the hindsight of 10 million years.

[real kayak]

And your telling me the Precursors, who were essentially gods, wouldn't have the Foresight to know what would happen?

[vagrant ocean]

And they allows it to happen

[real kayak]

The ancient galaxy was basically a standard Stellaris run, a bunch of evil empires with one large Hegemony vs the one good empire which gets crushed at the end dooming the galaxy to darkness

Precursors tried to avoid that outcome

[real kayak]

No they tried to stop it and got wiped out almost to the last... Man?

[vagrant ocean]

According to the Gravemind, the Precursors did not defend themselves and simply marveled at the sheer violence the Forerunners were capable of.

[real kayak]

No like they planned to wipe them out but got shocked into inaction by the Forerunners attacking first

And we know not all of them were evil

Like the ones that died on Bastion or survived on Netherop

[vagrant ocean]

Preemptive strike.

[real kayak]

Saying they all believed in the exact same philosophy and the exact same... Everything would be like saying that all humans believe in the exact same thing and are completely united

[real kayak]

Yes the Precursors got shocked but they still planned to save the galaxy

And now they are too lazy to do it?

Or is something blocking them

[versed salmon]

Good point. Did the ones on Netherop just sit back and chill while the Flood almost assimilated the entire galaxy?

[vagrant ocean]

Appears so.

ORION IIC: Though eventually outmoded by the MJOLNIR series, the ORION IIC prototype exoframe has reportedly seen combat in undisclosed clandestine missions since the Human-Covenant War era.

[vagrant ocean]

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?!!

[versed salmon]

It means some special operators utilized them in the years following the end of the war

[carmine sleet]

I'm just confused as to why they replied to them self in all caps like it was some world shattering discovery

[vagrant ocean]

Until now we only knew of 2 ORION components that were produced.

[vagrant ocean]

It didn’t fit the tone cuz that was a copy paste

[versed salmon]

Oh I didn’t know that

[vagrant ocean]

I’ve always had this theory that the MENACHITE helmet was a refinement of the ORION armor designs, and now they admit more parts were made during the war?!

And more importantly, who the hell is wearing it? What program are they from? JAVELIN?

[stoic hamlet]

When and where was this said? Is there a new canon fodder out?

[vagrant ocean]

The Last Stand launch post on waypoint.

[stoic hamlet]

Mind linking it, when you get a chance?

[vagrant ocean]

https://www.halowaypoint.com/news/last-stand-operation-launch

It’s under the shop section.

[stoic hamlet]

Thank you!

[vagrant ocean]

No problem duuuuude

[versed salmon]

I thought Iratus was locked down, how’d he get free?

[vagrant ocean]

I think it’s explained in the story? I can’t remember, bit baked rn.

[obsidian thistle]

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYFg8s7cY3CukyNNT3AXw5ZfN4jgXeN4t&si=DOAl3m8dTl2OwiFA

https://www.halopedia.org/Halo_Infinite_Story_%26_Intel

Both those links have stuff that happen before the recent Waypoint Chronicle

All thats missing is Menu stuff AND footage of the previous Event gamemodes

Is nice that I got footage of the Agryna cinematics prior to her getting a model update in Season 2

[sour raven]

Fully understanding that Dinh was an oni researcher really explains why he stuck Iratus in his head

[versed salmon]

Ahh thanks!

So the academy firefight is right after Iratus takes control of the suit

[sour raven]

He took control of the academy the suit display rigging was moving not the suit itself, he is inly able to display his image on top of a helmets faceplate

[vagrant ocean]

I also want more lore about Archaeohomina. Maybe reports of Spartans using the HELLCAT system?

[unborn patrol]

is there any canon explanation or connection thats been made between the appearance of the ancient humans and indigenous americans? they really kind of have a look to them that makes me think of the connection.

[vagrant ocean]

It’s less that and it’s closer to the individual depicted here. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5e/Homo_sapiens_sapiens_(Fundort_Jebel_Irhoud_Marokko).jpg

And Forthencho is just a single individual, I doubt he represents the majority of Archaeohomina.

[unborn patrol]

You see the crew in some shots and they look like it too

[hardy swan]

The lost tribe

[empty bloom]

I doubt the ancient humans are related to Clan Wolverine and the Minnesota Tribe.

[empty bloom]

Y'know, I kinda wonder if the UNSCMC still utilizes cavalry sabres for its NCO/Officer ranks in dress uniform.

It's kind of a hallmark of USMC, and they borrow a lot from it.

[stoic hamlet]

It’s a hallmark of most western militaries, tbh.

And those that evoke them (which is basically everyone)

[versed salmon]

Do non-Spartan personnel in the UNSC have motion trackers in their armor/helmets?

[empty bloom]

Really depends on mission necessity and kit.

[hardy swan]

maybe they put them for the clumsy ones

[sleek vigil]

I'm sure the Heavy Infantry Marines do.

[vagrant ocean]

Some do. The trainees at Corbulo did.

And they used the Cross-Branch BDU.

Their shooting glasses had them,

[orchid kettle]

It appears more so that the trainees just had like, a lil minimap that told them where other trainees were

Lasky outmaneuvers the enemy team by just having his own team take their helmets off and put them on the ground, which makes the enemy team think they're all clumped up somewhere they're not

and obviously a helmet that's been placed on the ground is probably not going to trigger a motion sensor

[soft plank]

Alrighty, I have a question. Is there a lore accurate reason on why the marines can't drive veichles in the 343 made games ?

[unique rune]

all Marine licenses got revoked after their terrible driving in the Bungie games

[vagrant ocean]

Probably not

[carmine sleet]

Before I answer this question, are you just trying to find something to hate on from their games because you can't think of anything else to hate on?
To actually answer the question, the friendly NPCs in Halo have always been pretty bad at driving since the early days of the franchise. NPCs driving badly is kinda just part of Halo's gameplay

[unique rune]

though I’m pretty sure Infinite is the only 343 title where they can’t

[carmine sleet]

Aye, in Infinite, they outright can't hop into the driver's seat

[unique rune]

Halo 5 is a bit of a weird case since no Marine/UNSC NPCs are around in the campaign but I’m pretty sure friendly NPCs could drive vehicles in 4 and 5 even if you didn’t necessarily want them to

[carmine sleet]

Aye, the miners in Halo 5 can drive, you see it on Evacuation (If they don't crash)

[soft plank]

I like the new games, but I'm just curious

[carmine sleet]

Ah fair, I'm just used to people singling out the 343 games to try and hate on them. Nice for that to not be the case

[unique rune]

Marines not being able to drive vehicles in Infinite is more faithful to to the early days of Halo if you’re a Bungie purist anyway since Marines don’t drive anything in CE

[soft plank]

Not every person is a hater

[empty bloom]

Halo's vehicle AI is pretty rudimentary anyways outside of Choppers, normally.

[strange pumice]

i'm pretty sure it's hard to code marine NPC to drive

[empty bloom]

It's hard to code any npc to function in built up and varied terrain in any circumstance, really.

[strange pumice]

Oh god, not the choppers
That thing was strange from Halo 3

[empty bloom]

Level design is as important as actual AI priorities.

Marines and such kinda suck AI wise because they have more vehicle restrictions. Objectives, people to follow, etc cetera-and most importantly, nowhere to reliably go to.

[carmine sleet]

All the NPC AI likely stems from the same basic code, I doubt it's a case of the marines are exclusively hard to code for

[empty bloom]

They also kinda suck at reprioritizing locations.

[empty bloom]

You do have the issue of them needing to operate with more restricted driving options than covenant vehicles.

[carmine sleet]

True

But the marines also are capable of controlling Covenant vehicles too

And I imagine at least for the sake of making certain NPCs not take vehicles, such as Elite Zealots, there's a toggle they can select to prevent them from hopping into vehicles, whether that be UNSC only, Covenant only or none at all

But this is now getting less into lore and more into game design

[empty bloom]

I mean, the question did start on the premise of vehicles and gameplay.

[stoic hamlet]

If we wanted to give a more reason, we could say perhaps Marines driving vehicles on zeta during the game is too dangerous.

Mind you, we know just right after Chief kills Escharum, or thereabouts, a Marine platoon with at least one Warthog assaulted one of the Banished outposts.

So, there’s that.

[unborn patrol]

the open world wouldve made it pretty much impossible to have the marines drive the car where you want it. even if they could follow a waypoint, the environment of zeta halo is difficult to traverse. maybe a system where you overlook the car from a far and give it specific checkpoints to reach but then that loses the point of letting them drive in the first place, where you get to shoot. no elegant solution here

the waypoint thing probably couldve worked if they had a team dedicated to routing the whole map and setting up that system, like open world driving games

personally I think they just knew John was best at the wheel and didnt wanna embarrass themselves infront of him

[orchid kettle]

The world being designed for the grapple ended up meaning even for the player, vehicles weren't a great way to get around besides anything that could fly

[empty bloom]

I'll admit to wishing that grapples were limited. In hindsight I think it actually hurt Infinite's campaign to have it be unlimited.

[carmine sleet]

It being unlimited is fine, I think it should've been introduced to us far later than the very first mission

[hardy swan]

do you guys think if the ancient humans return are they gonna be friend or foe to the UNSC

[strange pumice]

They will not return, because they are not existing now

[hardy swan]

the latest lore drop made it pretty clear that not the entirety of the AH were annihilated

there are some remnants not even the forerunners dare to go

[unborn patrol]

I think its possible for any species thats been ”eradicated” to come back. Some humans couldve escaped. And its wild to think that something as advanced as the precursors couldnt have escaped

There are many reasonable ways in which any faction could be brought back if the story needed them to

[hardy swan]

I think it will definitely be a future plot point

[strange pumice]

I'm not sure if it is possible to escape from the Halo array, in The Ark yes, but also, I'm not sure if ancient humans know about The Ark and about the rings

[hardy swan]

either the UNSC full reverse engineers Site: Yankee-002-G3 or someting

[hardy swan]

I am pretty sure in the Halo Waypoint it said there are small pockets of ancient humans at the far edges of the galaxy

meaning most likely outside the effects of the Halo Arrays

[strange pumice]

The only way to hide from Halo Array it's only on the Ark

None other place will not save you from Array

(Not sure about world shields like Requiem)

[unborn patrol]

Doesnt it just spread within the galaxy? Meaning outside of our galaxy nothing is touched

[strange pumice]

The only thing that I saw outside the galaxy was The Ark, I don't know about other planets

Or installations

Ask CIA about it, he will help you about this question

[vagrant ocean]

Depends on how much of their tech we can reverse engineer, maybe they’ll see our potential.

[hardy swan]

the one AH ship the UNSC has is longer than the Infinity and it's not even one of those planet wiping ones

[vagrant ocean]

Any Archaeohomina that might’ve escaped Forerunner hunters could’ve found refuge in Slipspace prior to the firing of the rings, saving them.

[vagrant ocean]

It’s a “cruiser” in the same way the Gerald R. Ford is a steam boat.

[vagrant ocean]

No one like my joke

[thorn spindle]

i get it cuz ford is an aircraft carrier

[vagrant ocean]

It’s nuclear powered

[thorn spindle]

used to have some for fun hate of the Ford cuz it was super late in relieving one of our deployments on the Truman. we pulled up side by side when they finally showed up. we were flipping eachother off from our hangar bays. fun time

😂

some real life lore right there

[karmic gulch]

Is the pelican electric?

[vagrant ocean]

Hydrogen?

[karmic gulch]

Ohhhh

They talk about it in infinite like it’s electric

[unique rune]

I mean it has electronics but its main power source is fusion reactors

[karmic gulch]

Ohhh

[prisma sierra]

Tesla Pelican

[karmic gulch]

lol

[astral pine]

Breaking News: Elon Musk has showcased the development of the very first electronic military aircraft from Halo: X Evolved. It has been stated that this aircraft has been named as PelicanX.

[empty bloom]

🤨

[karmic gulch]

Bro I’d lowkey buy that

[astral pine]

Same. Who can say no to a Pelican? (Impossible)

[karmic gulch]

Exactly!

More breaking news! Along with the pelican X, a truck with a machine gun on the back, called the WarthogX will also be releasing!

[astral pine]

I'LL TAKE YOUR ENTIRE STOCK!

[karmic gulch]

Same lol

[prisma sierra]

A truck that will breakdown when going over a speed bump

[karmic gulch]

Even more breaking news! Though ment for the military, a large amount of halo fans have bought out the stock of both items! Project ODSTX is releasing soon with soldiers dropping from space to contain the halo fans!

[oblique flare]

How was guardians reticle drift and halo 3s sniper so long gone from what I was expecting in a game

[oblique flare]

Source?

[oblique flare]

?

[oblique flare]

Isn't that the lmg hog

[oblique flare]

What year?

[thorn spindle]

I think it was 22-23? I lose track of time esp deployment do best to forget it not a fan

[vagrant ocean]

It’s a joke.

[sleek vigil]

HS: Wait... did he make a Pelican before we release co-op. 😯

[astral pine]

Good one lol

We got PelicanX before GTA6

[karmic gulch]

lol

[wispy pewter]

Halo Wars 2 cinematics are just cool af

[empty bloom]

Considering it's Tesla made, it'd be overpromised, underdelivering, looks ugly, and sold to the wrong market at obscene markup.

[unborn patrol]

hoping itll go under or at least we lose musket as the person running it

[sleek vigil]

YESS!

[sleek vigil]

One goes boom.

Elon: “Pilot error. Should’ve read the 900-page PDF on adaptive flight algorithms. RIP tho.”

[empty bloom]

I still find his reasoning for making a swap from LiDAR to algorythms infuriating.

Basically, it boiled down to "Oh humans can't see with lasers, why should our car", which makes zero sense.

[orchid kettle]

i assume it was just an excuse to cut down on costs

[empty bloom]

Other self-driving vehicles in the same price range utilizing LiDAR are around the same price range and likely don't cost as much to make.

[sleek vigil]

Bruh, humans also can’t calculate inertial navigation vectors in microseconds or see in 360 degrees with sensor fusion. Should we just rip out the CPUs while we’re at it, set supercomputers on fire?

[empty bloom]

That said, cutting costs at the expense of user safety is... Infuriating to consider, as someone who worked safety.

[empty bloom]

Have you seen the video of the guy who proved you can have your tesla autodrive through a fake 'tunnel'?

Basically, you can fool these algorithms and cameras with a bucket of paint and some artistry.

It's why sometimes you'll also see videos of Teslas trying to head-on collide on straight two-way roads; A glint of light and a vehicle of a certain shade, and your autodriving systems will think "Oh I'm supposed to go that way".

[carmine sleet]

So what you're saying is I can do what Wile E. Coyote tries to do to Road Runner to a Tesla?

[empty bloom]

There are six levels of vehicle driving autonomy according to SAE/DOT.

0 - No Self-Driving.
1 - Limited amounts of Driving assistance such as cruise control, adaptive cruise control.
2 - Partial Driving Automation, with the vehicle able to control acc/dec and steering. Tesla Autopilot (All of them) and GM's Super Cruise systems are here.
3 - Environmental detection and informed decision making, such as overtaking a slow vehicle. Audi's Traffic Jam Pilot is here, but only the European model.
4 - High Driving Automation, which is self driving with human override auxiliary. NAVYA, Alphabet, Magna, and a coalition of Volvo and Baidu sell products for this tier.
5 - Full automation. There are no products available yet in this tier.

[empty bloom]

Or any other self-driving vehicle that utilizes algorithms and cameras instead of LiDAR.

LiDAR sees a wall; It doesn't care about the paint.

[carmine sleet]

Notes down for future use

[empty bloom]

An interesting quirk of LiDAR, in terms of how Halo's camo works.

It likely wouldn't be able to properly detect Covenant Active Camo.

As Covenant Active Camo functions via bending light.

However, it would not struggle, at least hypothetically, first generation Mirage/SPI. This is because Mirage/SPI utilizes reactive panels, not high-heat lightbending systems.

On a personal level, I think LiDAR should actually be a mandatory component if you want to legally advertise your vehicle as self driving.

The flaws with the algorithm systems, and their specific forms of getting input, are precisely why we don't want AI controlling driving systems that exclusively utilize cameras. You don't want to engineer human fallibility where you don't need to, and LiDAR is the answer to that.

[vagrant ocean]

And be poorly built.

[vagrant ocean]

It’s the end result of capitalism my friend.

[empty bloom]

The thing about the ouroboros is that it never actually stops eating its own tail.

[stoic hamlet]

It would only seemingly work with the first Gen SPI suits, after that, SPI gets really weird, with multiple Spartans and even a Forerunner AI being like “I have no clue where they are.”

It seems like past the Mark I suits, SPI uses a bunch of different systems to function, which is where it’s stealth shines.

[vagrant ocean]

Do you think we’ll get more info on theORION armor?

[empty bloom]

I have the sudden urge to drive a Fiat into the ocean.

[stoic hamlet]

Presumably with the next canon fodder, we’ll see its SPI iteration.

[empty bloom]

||That is a joke about author fiat.||

[stoic hamlet]

Because apparently that’s a thing now.

[empty bloom]

I don't know why I'm surprised that Halo effectively runs on author fiat.

It's literally something I complain about all the time.

[vagrant ocean]

It apparently saw use during the Covenant war

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah.

[vagrant ocean]

And it’s lowkey one of my favorite armor designs next to MENACHITE and HAYABUSA.

[stoic hamlet]

Which I think needs some explanations, lol

[vagrant ocean]

And who tf is using it? Who do they work for? And what program augmented them? I think JAVELIN might be the culprit. Why mention something that hasn’t been talked about in 15 years?

[stoic hamlet]

It would almost certainly be an SPI variant. SPI is an umbrella designation for a number of armour styles that used the original prototype-but never-realized MELANEO as a base/stepping stone.

[vagrant ocean]

So it does track that once SPI/Mirage got up and running they’d circle back to MELANEO.

[carmine sleet]

My guess is either an Orion I equipped with SPI or some other unit for a very specific mission were using Orion armour during the war

But in a very limited capacity, as to not be something often seen

Like maybe it was just the best option to patch up armour or something

[stoic hamlet]

Likely, yeah.

[carmine sleet]

I'm kinda just speculating based off of what logical situations it could be used in

[vagrant ocean]

Well, all ORION candidates were folded back into standard spec ops units, and I can name only a handful that lived long enough for the war to happen. I think it’ll be a JAVELIN operative, given how it was mentioned in the Chronicle.

[vagrant ocean]

I mean, I have a head canon that MENACHITE is a refinement of the ORION helmet.

[carmine sleet]

Honestly, I think we just have too little info right now so here's hoping we do get answers

[stoic hamlet]

The chronicle has a few oddities, on that front. It mentions PROMETHEUS, but there should be no records of that operation. Unless it is referring to a super soldier initiative of its own.

[orchid kettle]

When was this stated

[vagrant ocean]

Well, it makes sense that ONI would have knowledge of PROMETHEUS, since they essentially ordered it.

[stoic hamlet]

2022 Encyclopedia

Or, wait, which part?

[stoic hamlet]

Yea, but SIII was incredibly secretive. They didn’t keep records of anything electronic. Even Ackerson, despite his glory hounding, didn’t really have anything on his private files about it.

More notably, it also doesn’t really fit with the rest of the listed things. They’re augmentation routines/programs overall, not singular operations

[vagrant ocean]

Maybe PROMETHEUS was the original IV program?

[carmine sleet]

Doubt it

[vagrant ocean]

Or at least is augmentation regimen?

Cuz the final process is called ORCHID

[orchid kettle]

The whole "SPI is a term that refers to any exoskeleton that's derived from ORION"

[stoic hamlet]

Oh, no, poor wording.

SPI is an umbrella program that took its earliest bones from ORION. It doesn’t refer to all ORION suits.

[vagrant ocean]

The Orion exoframe was later used by the Watershed Division as a useful stepping stone in the development of the Semi-Powered Infiltration armor used in the SPARTAN-III program. As of 2559, many of MELAENO's successes and failures remain classified. Page 76 of HE 2022

[orchid kettle]

Mmmkay. I just ask because I remember when that Frontlines chronicle came out, people were calling ORCUS SPI when it's technically just described as "semi-powered"

[vagrant ocean]

ORCUS is just a SPE, not an SPI

[orchid kettle]

What does the E stand for

[vagrant ocean]

Exoskeleton

[stoic hamlet]

Technically it’s just SP :p

[orchid kettle]

Right, it just appears that 343/HS is using "semi-powered" to refer to a certain class of powered armor

[vagrant ocean]

Something that doesn’t require the output of a MJÖLNIR reactor but can still get the job done.

[orchid kettle]

Yeah.

I can only assume this categorization is useful now that we have more exoframes usable by normies.

Nightfall, OSTEO, and now ORCUS

[stoic hamlet]

And possibly ARTIUS?

[vagrant ocean]

Or maybe it means it’s not always on, cuz the MJÖLNIR powered exoskeleton is constantly amplifying the reflexes of the user, whereas SPI, ORCUS, OSTEO, and NIGHTFALL only amplify when needed.

[stoic hamlet]

maybe

[vagrant ocean]

That’s a MJÖLNIR helmet

Disregard

[stoic hamlet]

It’s n- okay~

[orchid kettle]

ORCUS' concept art refers to it as a "HULC", or Human Universal Load Carrier, and "Load Carrier" has carried over into the name of the ORION Exoframe Load Carrier

[vagrant ocean]

Either way I’m glad humanity has exoframes for non-augmented individuals.

[orchid kettle]

Its mainly just about assisting soldiers in carrying their gear and marching longer distances without expending as much energy

Which may be important in ORCUS' case since it is stated to be made out of Titanium-A, which hasn't been confirmed before for ODSTs

Halopedia claims it has but its either uncited, or points towards a chapter in GoO that makes no comment on ODST armor being made of Titanium-A

[vagrant ocean]

Apparently ORCUS is based on Drop Jet Troopers from all the way back from the Interplanetary Wars.

[orchid kettle]

(in fact in Silent Storm, the ODST colonel outright states that the Black Daggers don't have "titanium-alloy power armor")

[vagrant ocean]

Well, ORCUS was effectively canceled and cannibalized by Spartans and it took the Cascade Stronghold Technologies CEO to effectively revive it and send the remaining prototypes to Perihelion Station over KC-59 for use by Ninth Platoon.

Led by Master Sergeant Stacker

Who I’m surprised hasn’t partaken of the ORCHID.

[orchid kettle]

Well the whole point of the ORCUS part of the chronicle is that it was uncanceled

"Somebody somewhere in the chain of command had apparently taken umbrage with the idea of this armor being developed simply as a drop-in upgrade package for Spartans. Scuttlebutt was that ORCUS was being brought out of development limbo to be tested for more direct and specialized helljumper applications—starting here."

Personally I do kinda have beef with contextualizing ORCUS as something that was only starting to be a proper thing in 2559, as we have had OSTEO in 2554 and Nightfall in 2551

[vagrant ocean]

Well, OSTEO wasn’t built for combat, nor was Nightfall for that matter.

ORCUS was meant for fast and mean

OSTEO was built for engineering and HAZMAT operations, and Nightfall was designed for hostile environments, not to be mass produced.

[orchid kettle]

You're making a lot of assumptions for something that doesn't have a ton of lore in the first place.

Nightfall appears to feature outer plating that's largely just normal ODST armor besides the legs, and an exoskeleton being useful in combat doesn't necessarily mean that it needs to do anything more than provide additional support that eases the burden of everyday soldiering.

[empty bloom]

It's always with the damn silent storm, I swear.

[orchid kettle]

well at least I kinda agree with this statement, I feel like fans just kinda hallucinated this idea that everybody in the unsc wore Titanium-A

Maybe just because you see something metallic and you vaguely recall how the books constantly talk about something called Titanium-A

[wispy pewter]

I am tiiitaaniiiiuuuummm

you shoot me dowwwn

but I won't fall

[orchid kettle]

In any case I like it as a new thing for ODSTs since it'd be a good way to increase their survivability without giving them shields, which to me always felt like a step too far

Like Sam in TFOR only gets his suit pierced because the plasma bolt he took for John hit him in a "soft spot", and his suit's titanium outer layer actually tanks quite a number of follow up shots

[wispy pewter]

it makes no sense to just give Spartans the titanium

[orchid kettle]

Id imagine the issue is that you'd just be way too heavy with full titanium-A head to toe

Even for ORCUS its probably just the parts you can equip that are Titanium-A

[prisma sierra]

Doesn’t even need to be full the most important coverage is your squishy organs

[hardy swan]

Do we have ODSTs surviving a plasma shot though

[orchid kettle]

Romeo does survive getting chopped by the blade half of a gravity hammer

An ODST in kilo-5 survives a needler round to the helmet as well

[hardy swan]

Maybe UNSC ceramic is OP

I think their helmets are titanium tho

[orchid kettle]

I feel like a big hunk of solid titanium would be hell on your neck

[empty bloom]

*Civilian wearing an ODST helmet, IIRC.

[orchid kettle]

if you are wearing the helmet you are possessed by the ghost of John Helljumper

that is what gave Keyes the courage to jump into space dual wielding BRs like he did in The Cole Protocol

[hardy swan]

We don’t know though. Titanium A is a fictional version of the real metal

It’s probably lighter

I doubt Mjolnir would be only 300 kilograms if it was using Titanium normal

[sonic lagoon]

Why does mjolnir look different in reach compared to the original trilogy if they are the same gen of mjolnir?

[carmine sleet]

There are different versions of Mjolnir within a generation

In the original trilogy, we see Mark V (CE), Mark V[b] (Reach) and Mark VI (2/3)

[orchid kettle]

Well its half a ton so it's more like 450kg but yeah, we know the actual tech suit layer is something other than Titanium-A

[karmic gulch]

Isn’t it hardening crystals or something?

[orchid kettle]

They're real vague on what it is exactly in recent guide books, calling it "poly muscle" in the spartan field manual or just a "nanocomposite" material in the Encyclopedia for gen3

[real kayak]

Yo guys

I just realized

Isn't the Primordial just the Precursors equivalent of a mentally deranged serial killer?

[wintry sleet]

y'all would I be sent to the deepest pit of halo hell if I made my ocs the kids of spartan-II’s

[real kayak]

Yes

Absolutely

[wintry sleet]

Sigh.. I better start packing my bags

[empty bloom]

One IV already is confirmed to be the kid of a Spartan II, but one that never got kidnapped.

[real kayak]

Oh nahhhh

[wintry sleet]

Maybe I dont have to pack my bags after all
Maybe

[vagrant ocean]

That’s the lore behind a fireteam I made.

[empty bloom]

Personally I have negative opinions about copycatting canon characters for fanon characters, but it's your party, you can dance if you want to.

[vagrant ocean]

Well, their parents are unnamed candidates from the original 150, it is only to explain why they are so proficient with the use of the HELLCAT suite.

[empty bloom]

Alrighty.

[unborn patrol]

its a cool premise at least

theyd no doubt be built different

although I wonder if the procedures theyve gone through at such a young age wouldve affected their fertility. since getting on steroids and what not tends to affect that even in adulthood, let alone when youre still developing.

and retaining their fertility going forward sounds like a weird thing. then again maybe halsey wouldve been interested in seeing how that plays out

[sour raven]

As far as I know, fertility wasnt really effected

I dont think the writers thought that far into the whole thing

[unborn patrol]

yeah I get a feeling they didnt as well

[fiery galleon]

What's a good halo book to read for the lore

[hardy swan]

Naomi only mentions having less urges

i think

[orchid kettle]

The issue with it in Vale's case is that it didn't really provide any additional context for her character, aside from her "power level" if that is something you care about.

[unborn patrol]

idek what power level means in halo context 😭

[orchid kettle]

Just like, how good she is at backflips and shooting and stuff

[unborn patrol]

lmaoo

[carmine sleet]

Her dad wasn't even augmented so that wouldn't even have factored into making her different from others. Like, Caleb Vale's most interesting facts are he's the father of Olympia Vale and he was able to evade ONI when they came to kidnap him for the Spartan II program

[orchid kettle]

Even unaugmented the IIs are supposed to be lil bby geniuses and olympic-athletes-to-be

with Caleb specifically supposed to have an "intuition" so sharp it bordered on precognition

Like even at the age of 8, barely two years in their training, the IIs were outmaneuvering ODSTs. At that point it has nothing to do with Mendez's training or augs or whatever, they just are demi-gods essentially and its about time we all learned our place

god i hate spartan glazing

[hardy swan]

tbh they would have been gone to waste if they got glassed

[orchid kettle]

I kinda get the vibe that if Halo ever got into proper "what-ifs", they'd reveal that even if Chief wasn't conscripted into the Spartan Program, he would have just become the next Admiral Cole or whatever

[hardy swan]

They would have been glassed by the covenant lol

what are the chances big brain kids will join the military

[vagrant ocean]

His genetics are next level.

[orchid kettle]

Not really. It sure sounds like every kid John ever knew growing up made it out okay

Like in HtT we have two separate girls who knew John, and then the palace hotel lady

and her whole unit is from John's planet

[vagrant ocean]

Well, the IIs are genetically perfect, it’s why they were selected.

[unborn patrol]

either that or be very relevant in some other way. I think part of the tragedy is that the kids being conscripted forced them into serving the military when they couldve been useful somewhere else too. mightve had other desires and aspiration but all that was thrown out

[wintry sleet]

My ocs whole thing is that they're the kids of Spartans 2s to make the ultimate super soldiers. Test tube babies Yippie
Eugenics and genetic testing later etc... Didn't go well

[unborn patrol]

I imagine itd make most sense if the babies were made using a surrogate

[wintry sleet]

Yeah
They were, I didn't make the lore extensive on purpose as to not make it weird

[unborn patrol]

since we dont know how fertile they are and if they are actively serving its a hinderance

[wintry sleet]

Yeah

[vagrant ocean]

They seem decently fertile, Randall-037 had a kid, and Maria-062 retired to start a family.

[unborn patrol]

thats cool. would hope in 500 years we got that sorted at least

[vagrant ocean]

From what we know, the augmentation procedures just reduced their urges, nothing more.

[unique rune]

That was only ever mentioned as possible side effect anyway

No guarantee if it actually did happen to any of them

[vagrant ocean]

It could just be a case by case thing

[hardy swan]

was Margeret and Otto an after augmentation thing

[vagrant ocean]

Before,

[hardy swan]

okay makes sense

[vagrant ocean]

Also, the entirety of Black Team initially washed out from Project ASTER and had to undergo rehabilitation and reaugmentation much like Red Team

I want more info on the washouts and if any more were rehabilitated.

Also I wonder how S-075 is doing.

[real kayak]

Stellaris empires could easily survive the Ark

Just depends on which type of species makes it up

The Lithoids and Robots would survive

@balmy anvil

And then take over the entire galaxy

[balmy anvil]

You win idk anything about Stellaris 😂

[sonic lagoon]

Did the heretics and the banished ever ally or interact with each other?

[vagrant ocean]

Probably not. The Heretics led by Sesa Refumee were part of the Fleet of Particular Justice,

[unique rune]

Sesa’s heretic faction was also entirely limited to the Threshold gas mine and all of them went down with the facility after Thel did all that stuff to it, so…

[vagrant ocean]

Yep

[warped nexus]

Why are Spartans part of the Navy instead of the Army or Marines?

[empty bloom]

Spartans are part of their own branch, but overall they fell under ONI due to their nature as extra-special forces.

[hardy swan]

BOAT

[stoic hamlet]

Post war/under the Spartan branch, they also technically can be under any jurisdiction. Spartan branch is just administrative.

[vagrant ocean]

The Spartan branch runs them, they can however be loaned to different branches.

[sleek vigil]

Spartans used to be part of Navy. Now they are under their own branch, Spartan Operations. However, some do remain under Navy, like Blue Team. If Chief were to be in Spartan Operations, he'd be Fireteam Leader John.

[sleek vigil]

Probably because Navel Intelligence kickstarted the program.

[carmine sleet]

"Fireteam Leader John" doesn't quite have the same ring to it that "Master Chief" has

[orchid kettle]

well you gotta add in Spartan somewhere

Spartan Fireteam Leader Spartan John

[sleek vigil]

Goodness.

[sleek vigil]

It doesn't. LOL.

[orchid kettle]

I do kinda wish the IVs stayed in the Navy. Not because I care about the ranks being realistic or whatever, but because I feel like they've overused the word "Spartan" to the point of meaninglessness

I remember being an intrigued lil baby boy when that one NCO guy calls you a "Spartan" in Metropolis, and wondering what they could mean

and now I feel like you can't escape the word

[high elbow]

Counter point: Master John Fireteam Spartan Leader

[empty bloom]

It wouldn't be Fireteam Leader "John", it'd be Fireteam Leader "Doe". Considering we don't know his last name.

Though he'd likely end up being "Spartan Commander Doe"

[orchid kettle]

Do IVs number their members like Noble or Blue did sometimes in the Nylund books

or did Black Team kinda ruin it by exclusively calling themselves One, Two, Three, and Four

Because it sure felt like there was a moment in Halo's history where they loved the numbered callsign thing, but then just stopped

[empty bloom]

"Osiris Three, Four, take the airfield. Osiris Two and I will take the beach."

Mmmmn.

Doesn't roll off the tongue right.

I vaguely recall Majestic doing it?

[orchid kettle]

maybe because "Osiris" itself is too many syllables?

[empty bloom]

Maybe.

IV fireteams do love their syllables.

"Lancer Five, Six, run interference. Three, Four, take out the AA so Lancer Two and I can cover the civvies."

Okay, it sounds better with Lancer.

[orchid kettle]

if I was Jorogumo I would never actually say Jorogumo in full

or id say it really fast and pronounce it like "geronimo"

[empty bloom]

It'd be shortened to just "Fireteam Jor" all the damn time. Nobody's bothering to say Fireteam Jur-o-goo-mo every damn time.

Osiris is kinda like, the limit, and even then it's kinda close.

Majestic Lead, Majestic One, Majestic Two.

Osiris Lead.

Windfall Lead.

Hmn.

Y'know it's kinda growing on me the more I think about it. Lead and Numbers is the way to go.

[strange pumice]

Kinda meh
I'm liking more Spartan names than numbers

[empty bloom]

I mean, it was interchangeable even before they seemed to move to just names.

There is a form of 'light' themeing with Fireteam names, that seems to denote what a IV Fireteam is meant for.

With names of gods, for example, being more fluid and frequently transferred positions with more independent use.

[orchid kettle]

The actual names are fine too, I think I just don't want to hear the word "Spartan"

so if the radio man says "Majestic-Two, this is Majestic-Actual" or whatever, that's fine

[empty bloom]

Yeah, I think messaging should really just be "Spartan" Being an external term. You don't need internal elements reaffirming that you're a Spartan.

I mean, granted, it is literally called "Spartan Branch"

IV Fireteams so far have been named after

• Gods/Mythological creatures
• Colors
• Concepts
• Animals
• Cities
• Weapons

[orchid kettle]

It seems to be more or less anything as long as its one word

[empty bloom]

Kinda. Switchback, Windfall, and Hellhound are kinda stretching it, IMO.

[wispy pewter]

Majestic

[strange pumice]

Good team name choices

[wispy pewter]

and there was nothing Majestic about them

[empty bloom]

Eh, I'd say they did some cool stuff, just mostly in the ridiculous comics.

[orchid kettle]

They're probably only called Fireteam Raven because in-game files point towards them having originally been Spartans, but I kinda like ODST fireteams sticking to animals alone

Metal Gear Solid style

[empty bloom]

Meanwhile Alpha Nine

[orchid kettle]

meanwhile sunray 1-1

[empty bloom]

At least Sunray has a bird for a logo, tbf.

[orchid kettle]

every writer has their own idea on how odsts work it feels like

[empty bloom]

Then again they belong to a ship literally named after a bird.

[wispy pewter]

no Phoenix used yet

[empty bloom]

ODSTs really suffer more from 'depending on the writer' almost as much as Spartans do, tbh. Or even depending on author needs. They go from being described as stoic cool dudes who don't care about the Infinity falling apart around them in Rubicon Protocol to dying alongside a bunch of normal Marines in some trench because some jackals were hungry.

[orchid kettle]

my only beef with the alpha-nine convention, which IS otherwise the most common, is that you can't do the numbered callsign thing

[empty bloom]

A9-Leader A9-One.

[orchid kettle]

unless Dutch is Alpha-Nine-Two

[empty bloom]

IIRC the numbering strictly seems to go off of time in unit after initial formation.

For post-reinforcement, at any rate.

[wispy pewter]

would be cool if they tell us how many Spartans there are

[empty bloom]

I'm strongly against that.

Same reason you don't say how many Space Marines there are.

[wispy pewter]

I don't want there to be too many

[orchid kettle]

I think in Blue Team's case, isn't "Blue-Two" just whoever John decides is second in command

[empty bloom]

People like to make their own OCs. And while they'll do it anyways, having the number be nebulous makes it more okay.

[wispy pewter]

or they just call themselves by name

[orchid kettle]

because I could have sworn Kelly has been called Blue-Two once or twice

[empty bloom]

I mean I doubt many of Halo Authors cared that deeply about radio protocol

[orchid kettle]

but now halopedia lists Fred as Blue-Two, which I assume comes from the Denning trilogy

[wispy pewter]

I hope Majestic is doing ok

they were most likely on the infinity on zeta

[orchid kettle]

tbf I don't necessarily care that much either, i just like having alternate ways to refer to a character as a poopy lil fanfic writer

[prisma sierra]

What makes no sense is most Spartans don’t use their kaboom abilities after dying

[orchid kettle]

It's for some reason something they or somebody else has to consciously activate

and not just like, activated when their heart stops

[hardy swan]

Imagine if McEndon just blew himself up next to that Grunt

[orchid kettle]

Probably because as Linda taught us-- sometimes you can un-kill a dead Spartan

[hardy swan]

Hmm

Because not one of them blew up at mortal reverie

We even had descriptions of them being pulled apart

Honestly embarrassing way to go as a Spartan

[orchid kettle]

It is worth mentioning that before Empty Throne it hadn't ever really been mentioned since First Strike

So it was a bit of a deep lore cut to include that tidbit

[hardy swan]

Oh

I’m guessing only the IIs have it then

[orchid kettle]

It might be even more specific than that

Grace was in her GEN1 Mark V, as was James

[hardy swan]

I guess Mjolnir technology wasn’t a secret anymore

[orchid kettle]

In First Strike the thing Haverson was super worried about was the Covenant recovering the Spartan's new shield tech because in his own words, humanity had found a way to "improve" upon the Covenant's own personal energy shielding

so if the Covenant recovered that tech, they could make their own soldiers better

[hardy swan]

How convenient

Doesn’t apply that to ships at all

[orchid kettle]

Well the humans didn't want their ships captured specifically because they didn't want the Covenant to find any data that pointed towards another colony or Earth itself

but the technology aboard the ship itself was of no interest to the Covenant

[hardy swan]

Cole protocol

But Earth is public now. It’s been invaded again lol

[sour raven]

Banished already tried once

[hardy swan]

In Empty throne

[orchid kettle]

Cole Protocol is very specifically about preventing the Covenant from finding more human worlds, not necessarily about asset denial in general

[hardy swan]

Doesn’t Earth have a couple dozen of those station MACs? Or was that before the HCW

[sour raven]

Cole protocol was enacted in the banished academy invasion

[orchid kettle]

Yeah and it kinda annoys me that they did

[hardy swan]

But it means destroying all navigational systems and in some cases self destruction

[orchid kettle]

Like unless the concern is very specifically the Banished finding out about some hidden human facilities, it shouldn't apply

[sour raven]

Well it is an oni site, so there is important information

[hardy swan]

Facilities like the infinite academy

Where the latest IV recruits were training

[empty bloom]

Glances at Red-Fifteen

Hmmmmn. Guess we're just choosing to ignore what killed more IIs than any other act of the war, huh.

[empty bloom]

It strikes me as a default buzzword type deal.

Also like how the hell is getting ripped apart due to accrueing too many injuries to fight on 'embarrassing'?

Spartans aren't supposed to be invincible demigods of death and destruction, they're still human and limited by the factor of being biological beings with mechanical failiure points.

[unique rune]

getting dismembered is bad when it happens to S-IVs but super cool when it happens to S-IIs, obviously

[empty bloom]

They lost to the same thing the IIIs lost to, the same thing many IIs lost to, the same thing the real Spartans of Sparta died to.

Attritition and lack of numbers against overwhelming odds.

How their injury-comatose bodies get treated afterwards, or corpses, is kinda up to the people they die to. You think the Covenant didn't take macabre trophies of dead Spartans or marines?

[vagrant ocean]

What happen

[carmine sleet]

Don't Shadow use numbers?

[empty bloom]

Oh right, they did, didn't they.

[carmine sleet]

Aye

I imagine it's just sometimes IVs use [unit name] number to refer to themselves, other times they use last names