lore-and-universe

[orchid kettle]

Yeah, it just seems like the "idea" at least early on is that it really was just a Spartan roughing it with the bare minimum

and I wonder if we just have another example of there being a disconnect between what the art team envisions and what the lore team ultimately states

Like how we have a chest piece that's clearly holding a bunch of shotgun shells, but the text insists they're batteries.

[empty bloom]

Like how Mr.Bones has two bulldog mags labelled 'Regen Field Emitters'?

[orchid kettle]

Yarp

[empty bloom]

Is it weird that I actually think one of the reasons they ultimately made the suit sealed was due to Infinite not having a skin color selection?

[orchid kettle]

It probably doesn't help that it feels like Rakshasa has been ignored somewhat in extended media

[empty bloom]

Really, anything from Infinite's armor has been thus far.

[orchid kettle]

If you assume Janissaries are using Mirage then Empty Throne may have confirmed it does have shields

[empty bloom]

I think it's actually pointedly their own homegrown suits of some variety.

IIRC.

[orchid kettle]

Yeah, or that

[empty bloom]

I mean, we know they can, I just wish we'd actually get some damn lore about Boggart.

[orchid kettle]

Or Osteo, since it sounds like something that's just on the marketplace

[empty bloom]

NGL, it irritates me that there's tons of Banished stuff for Rakshasa, but nothing for Osteo.

Because if I had to guess which would have a whole load of Banished kit, it'd be Osteo.

[orchid kettle]

If I had to guess-- we have Chimera for Executors, obviously, Mirage/Something new entirely for Jannies, and Hazmat/Osteo for the supposed Corpo Spartans who have yet to actually appear

I just kinda hope 343 doesn't forget about that key art that had an Executor breaking into some IMC/ONI facility, surrounded by dead osteo guys

[empty bloom]

Osteo really is something of an odd duck because it's apparently also human-useable.

Which, I mean, baller, more uses of that tech

I know that the goobers on Meridian also had MJOLNIR style gel layers

[orchid kettle]

Since we have Osteo as far back as 2554 or whenever Saturn Devouring His Son was, I honestly don't know why they chose to make ORCUS a late 2559 thing

Its not like we've had any in-game odsts since 2010 anyway

[empty bloom]

ORCUS should've been a Mirage thing, tbh.

ODSTs using Mirage isn't exactly an unheard of concept anyways.

Speaking of Venezian OSTEO-Y'know, this actually kinda goes hard.

[orchid kettle]

Some peeps argue that Mirage having "lowered augmentation requirements" implies the user still needs to be augmented to some degree, so its not allowed to be normie-friendly like Osteo and maybe Rakshasa if you take that key art with Dare super seriously (which I don't think anybody does)

[empty bloom]

I certainly don't.

I dunno like

My view on Rakshasa is that it's kind of like, GEN 2.5. Leans more like a super heavily ruggedized-at-all-costs GEN2.

[orchid kettle]

Personally at this point, I feel like we might as well embrace the fact that post-war is full of exoskeletons

[empty bloom]

Oh, absolutely.

I'd actually love them embracing that to the degree of like, having ODSTs or Marines in Halo Hypothetical having exoskeleton rigs and toting around the HMGs, Jorge-style.

[orchid kettle]

I really appreciate that Hazmat just has pants and normal boots

compared to Rakshasa's lil devil feet

[empty bloom]

I remember talking a while back about Osteo and like, how Hazmat actually makes way more sense as armor than anyone who complains about HAZOP thinks about.

Y'know, redundant cloth layers and all that.

I'd still bet actual money there's still hard plates under those pants.

Apparently HAZOP in-universe is just "The radiation leak armor you wear sometimes"

[orchid kettle]

You could argue that maybe the corpos have other dedicated combat/security suits, compared to what appears to largely be utility/protective suits

[empty bloom]

Maybe. I mean, there were explicitly 'paramilitary' GEN2 sets.

Raijin, IIRC. Or maybe it was Teishin?

[hardy swan]

are spartans not radiation proof

[empty bloom]

Radiation is famed IRL for not really giving a damn about your genetic code.

[orchid kettle]

They're very specifically immune to the radiation of whatever the special macguffin from Battleborn was

[empty bloom]

Ugh.

[orchid kettle]

but otherwise, doesn't seem like it

[empty bloom]

I know Covenant are like, technically radiation resistant

But I doubt they'd enjoy a PLQ-196E to the face any more than any human would.

(Those are the radiation grenades from one of the Rakshasa armor sets)

[hardy swan]

maybe they are immune A and B radiation

[orchid kettle]

It'd be funny if only Elites were and they just let the Grunts and Kig-Yar die of super cancer

[empty bloom]

That'd be pretty in character, NGL.

[hardy swan]

but if Gen 3 is not radiation proof a;ready it's weird

[orchid kettle]

Hazmat is just supposed to be even more so

[empty bloom]

Okay so like, basic rule of thumb, you can only ever really be 'resistant' to any given force.

[hardy swan]

if it can handle space gamma rays and the sun it should be more than enough

[orchid kettle]

You can also argue that from a worldbuilding perspective its more "important" as a suit of semipowered armor that normies can use

and we can equip it because the Infinite team isn't allowed to invent anything new if it doesn't tie back into customization

[empty bloom]

Let me put it this way.

GEN3 Mark VII might be fine in the corridors of a ship with a completely breached fission reactor. Just fine. Maybe a bit of a decon after and it'll make a gieger counter pop off.

But Hazmat could walk into the fission reactor chamber itself and be fine, whereas the Spartan wearing Mark VII would find their DNA unspooling on the spot.

These things occur by degrees.

And like, sometimes, you really need to touch that reactor chamber. Maybe even fight something in there.

[hardy swan]

i would still wanna keep that crotch plate tbh

[empty bloom]

Who says Osteo lacks groin protection?

[hardy swan]

i hate mjolnir without the titanium plating it looks weird

[empty bloom]

Can this stop a 5.56?

I mean, it's cloth, so no.

But it might have a plate in there, you don't know.

Osteo's not MJOLNIR.

[hardy swan]

would be better if they dressed like AIM soldiers

[empty bloom]

I think Osteo's fully powered, but I think the only actual tech it has that ties into normal MJOLNIR function is common defense tech and strength multiplication.

I wouldn't doubt it has shields, maybe even as good as MJOLNIR.

[hardy swan]

so it lacks the super strength and durability

[empty bloom]

The one thing I doubt it actually has is actually thrusters.

[empty bloom]

No, I didn't say that.

[hardy swan]

I don't think they need spartans for radation cleanup

[empty bloom]

That's not even all Osteo is for.

Osteo is a general purpose engineering rig, not monopurpose.

[hardy swan]

yeah the wiki make sense the spartans that work with their marines with hazmat operations

[empty bloom]

It has parts for underwater operations, overland operations, high radiation, weeks spent in cancerous pits.

MJOLNIR is a heavily refined, purpose-built tool. Rugged, but that takes a back seat to lethality. It can take a hell of a beating just fine, but maintenance will hurt it, and it's not really meant for spending days building trenches. It's meant for breaking lines, blowing things up, ripping throats out.

OSTEO is like one of those up-armored bulldozers or engineering vehicles based on tank hulls; Highly armored, meant to build stuff, maybe even under fire. It can take a licking, but killing isn't the goal, it's supporting and building things doing the killing. Sure, the guy using it has a gun, but it likely won't be what he wants to use. Ditto with the strength of the suit.

[hardy swan]

They also serve modok

[unique rune]

If something goes horribly wrong in a hazardous environment I think a Spartan’s enhanced strength and resilience aren’t gonna go unappreciated so it
just sort of makes sense to have a version of the Osteo platform available for them

[orchid kettle]

Im just assuming 343 uses the term "semi-powered" to refer to any suit a normal person can use, especially if we're meant to accept that "MJOLNIR" itself refers to a certain standard of power armor

[hardy swan]

Suddenly that exo suit that Ripley used becomes useful

[orchid kettle]

even though the term itself doesn't really mean anything, Nylund just wanted the acronym to spell out "SPI", or "spy"

[empty bloom]

What a goober.

[hardy swan]

Ugh I can’t post a Tf2 gif

[orchid kettle]

so I assume there's like "MJOLNIR Osteo" and "semi-powered Osteo" according to 343's terminology

[empty bloom]

Actually, I think, if the descriptions are anything to go off, the two single worst aspects of OSTEO are going to be the lack of inbuilt thrusters, and sensors.

Because a lot of Osteo's tech is apparently large-scale sensor rigs.

But that's all like, supplemental equipment, not built-in.

[orchid kettle]

Im real unimaginative when it comes to interpreting armor lore, so I just kinda zone out when they start talking about sensors

[hardy swan]

Does Osteo have everything gen 3 has like shielding and self healing mode

[empty bloom]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

I'm shooting from an educated hip here.

[orchid kettle]

as long as it has the magic quantum mirror that can see through walls in a 40 meter radius I assume its all good

[hardy swan]

SPI naming like it’s constantly on 50% power

[empty bloom]

I'm more gleaning from omitted word than stated.

[orchid kettle]

I guess even outside of comparisons to MJOLNIR, "semi-powered" may make sense if "fully powered" refers to like, Cyclopses and the Mark I suits

where we approach that blend of exo and mech

[empty bloom]

Y'know, it'd be funny as hell if the only particularly noteworthy difference between fully and semi is what the power source is.

With semi being battery-powered and fully being fusion reactors.

[orchid kettle]

Nightfall makes more sense to me as "semi-powered" because only a fraction of the body is assisted

but we know SPI is full body

Even down to the kung fu grip gauntlets

[empty bloom]

I wonder if there's like, a DOT self-driving equivalent to exoskeletons.

Where they have to fulfill specific criteria in order of need.

(Fun fact, Tesla's self-driving feature is actually one of the lowest rated on that scale, while European vehicles with a self-driving feature are often at the highest levels of that scale. Tesla dropping LIDAR self-driving automation really hurt it.)

[hardy swan]

Not having giant ahh laser beams on your car looks better

Tho

I think Mark Robers test was a fake anyway

[orchid kettle]

Of course then you gotta remember the ORION Exoframe Load Carrier, the apparent predecessor to SPI, is also a thing

[empty bloom]

"I'd rather look cool than be alive"

[orchid kettle]

ORCUS, as the Halo 5 ODST concept art, was also described as a "HULC" or Human Universal Load Carrier, and SPI has also been described as an exoframe or at least having an exoframe.

so it honestly seems like all three terms mean the exact same thing

[empty bloom]

I would like for there to be something that actually goes into detail on how the UEG catagorizes this hodgepodge of terminology.

[empty bloom]

Also you can't see LiDAR beams anyways-it's also used by most auto-driving cars.

[hardy swan]

Would have been cooler if the abbreviation was Hulk

[orchid kettle]

You know one small thing I don't see people talk about is how ORCUS is made of Titanium-A

[hardy swan]

Inb4 conspiracy it gives cancer

[orchid kettle]

That's a pretty big jump in durability, even if you assume it's not the same exact alloy as GEN3

[empty bloom]

Everything gives you cancer.

[empty bloom]

Likely thinner?

Or something, IDK.

I know Titanium A is used in the construction of Grappleshots.

[orchid kettle]

I guess people don't talk about it because so many fans assume ODSTs already wear full Titanium-A

[hardy swan]

I assume too

[orchid kettle]

Even though I don't believe there was any evidence of that

Beyond like maybe, an ODST helmet protecting its wearer from a needle round in Kilo-5?

[empty bloom]

But Kat's helmet was Titanium-A, so...

[hardy swan]

There’s literally no point in making a titanium helmet and then your body armor is ceramic

[orchid kettle]

I mean there's also some point in focusing on head protection

[empty bloom]

You do know that body armor was actually pretty rare until like, the GWOT, right?

[hardy swan]

A head is nothing without its vital organs

[empty bloom]

Like, the US was only wearing helmets and flak jackets in Vietnam.

[orchid kettle]

though it also sounds like a pain to have a big titanium helmet

[hardy swan]

Lvl 3 PUBG helmet

[orchid kettle]

im sure some fans would just handwave the kilo-5 example as just some oddity in the same vein as Halsey tanking a spartan punch to the face

[hardy swan]

Im sure Titanium A is lighter and more durable than our Titanium

And apparently in abundance as well all the human ships are made of them

[empty bloom]

Apparently Titanium is used in ODST helmet construction.

And the armor plates.

Likely ceramic-coated Titanium.

[orchid kettle]

I know halopedia had a line about this but I recall it having no source at the time

[empty bloom]

Still doesn't.

... The hell makes ORCUS special then lmao

[unique rune]

The stuff inside your head is comparatively less replaceable than any of the organs in the rest of your body

[orchid kettle]

Crowther actually says verbatim in Silent Storm "and the Black Daggers don’t have titanium-alloy power armor."

obviously they don't have power armor but I feel like you wouldn't mention titanium-alloy if it was commonplace

[empty bloom]

It's always with the damn Silent Storm.

[orchid kettle]

Its just kinda the biggest role ODSTs have had in the last ten years, honestly

[empty bloom]

"Hey we can copy a HAVOK with this bathtub-sized gel bomb"

What a rude book!

[orchid kettle]

Titanium is never used when referring to Johnson's armor from CH's intro either

[empty bloom]

Wonder where the mystery patron got the Titanium from then.

[hardy swan]

Is this why ODSTs hate Spartans because they don’t get titanium

[orchid kettle]

Would probably have to check halopedia's edit history. I feel like that line has been there for as long as I can remember though.

[empty bloom]

ODSTs have historically had more characters who like/tolerate Spartans than not tbh.

[hardy swan]

I don’t remember Kilo 5s initial impression of Naomi

[empty bloom]

Or at least, it sure as hell feels that way.

[hardy swan]

But the ODSTs in Halo legends were just Aholes to Cal

[orchid kettle]

It feels like the idea is that the Romeo-Locklear guys are real hung up on it, while the more mature ones just do what needs to be done, regardless of any personal feelings

but some fans also argue that ODSTs should exclusively be Romeo-Locklear types, so, you know

[empty bloom]

My actual response to those very, very strange people;

Hit 'em with that 'tropical fish in the CAT scan" stare

I always found it somewhat amusing that morale always seemed downright insanely high during the last days of the HCW.

I mean, I guess you're fighting for Earth, but I feel like you'd see a lot more "Oh we are so out of luck here"

[hardy swan]

What’s more idiotic is the soldiers marooned on Netherop decided to have kids

[empty bloom]

...

@orchid kettle You wanna handle that one? lmao

[orchid kettle]

Love finds a way

You know in hindsight I think what feels so silly about Major Silva personally knowing the ODSTs John killed back when he was 14 is that Chief himself never really hears about this from Silva

Its easy to imagine this as like a neat prelude to John's arc in First Strike, where he realizes his actions can have far reaching consequences, and one human life can have a greater ripple effect than he initially realized

Where, you know, he'd have to reckon with the fact that sacrificing Johnson to Science may hurt more people than Johnson himself

[orchid kettle]

That's supposed to be the origin of the Spartan-ODST rivalry after all, something Chief personally did. But John never really has to think about that moment again, funnily enough.

[hardy swan]

He’s busy saving the world

The entire UEG**

[strange pumice]

I thought it was a plate, but it's damn fish

[obsidian thistle]

Oh as a fun side thing to those who care about the Headhunters animation. Found a thing thats useful for seeing Jonah and the Elites fully! 🙂

https://youtu.be/ZNnCqAiWsKE?si=MZSxN2ixydREITsz

[carmine sleet]

Oh how this makes me wish we got Silent Shadow armour added to Halo 3 or Reach in MCC

[empty bloom]

If it gets the Armor for Reach, Halo 3 needs at least one full season pass dedicated entirely to it. Equal attention cake and all.

[carmine sleet]

Fair

I just think it's a shame we never got Silent Shadow armour

[gusty star]

Halo 3 already had like 7 elite armors added to it tf💀

[carmine sleet]

And it also got plenty or new armour added for Spartans

So I don't see the issue of wanting at least one more Elite armour set

[empty bloom]

Mostly the lack of anything for any other game.

[gusty star]

Mirage 100% should’ve been added to Reach, not Halo 3

Makes so much more sense when you’re playing as a Spartan III

Halo 3 got so much more content added to it compared to all the other games in the collection

Why did Reach never get any vehicle or weapon skins? They would go so hard

And be so easy to add

[carmine sleet]

I think Reach didn't get Mirage since it would've meant remaking the undersuit of the Reach Spartans. Whereas with 3, they could utilise the Halo Online undersuit and slap stuff on top

[stoic hamlet]

The helmet at least should have been added.

Considering they added a bunch of fracture helmets.

[carmine sleet]

I do agree with that

[ionic tiger]

1. Yes, I'd kill to have Mirage in Reach. 2. That said, the fact you play a III has next to no ramifications in Reach, so there is that.

[unborn patrol]

I really have a problem with how the additional armor pieces added to the games after the fact look. the "art style" doesnt mesh, its like whoever made the armors wasnt aware of what the look really was. I think all of them can work but theyd really need to stick to the same polygon limits as the old stuff as well as how those were textured. they kind of ignore all that and just do whatever

[stoic hamlet]

Which ones?

Like, which games and armours?

[unborn patrol]

the retro fitted ones brought into halo 3 from halo 4

and the ones that were part of the fracture updates

[carmine sleet]

They weren't brought in from Halo 4

They came from the cancelled Halo Online

[unborn patrol]

same damn thing

the design is the same

[carmine sleet]

There was plenty of differences between the Halo 4 and Halo Online designs

Just using Warrior as an example

[unborn patrol]

you can nickle and dime on this all you like but this convo doesnt matter in perspective of the argument I made before

the designs dont fit

[carmine sleet]

I'm not nickle and diming anything, it's incorrect to claim the armour they brought in came from Halo 4 when it came from Halo Online

[unborn patrol]

my god

and which one of those titles was first?

sure the designs are slightly different but its clearly using the halo 4 armor as base to go off of

completely missing the point anyway

[gusty star]

It’s okay, you can get over it

[empty bloom]

The textures are mediocre but I don't think that the polygon limit's really a problem.

[unborn patrol]

When youre making assets to fit an older game, you try to follow those rules because polycount is a major factor in the style of older games

You dont have to be concerned for the functionality. Now youre concerned for the look

[empty bloom]

Sounds like a personal issue tbh

[unborn patrol]

Not really

I do lore friendly mods for older games a lot and the polycount and texturing thing is really important

Its even more serious in something like GTASA

[empty bloom]

Well, it's personally not a problem to me, so

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[unborn patrol]

They shouldnt stand out like they do rn. Whatever was added shouldve felt like unreleased content or something

Like Akis was. It doesnt stick out because it was intended to be there

[unique rune]

I mean they weren't even really making the assets fit into an older game
It was just reusing stuff that already existed and moving it into the next closest iteration of the game engine

[obsidian thistle]

@celest token here is where most lore and media talk happens if it isnt on Halopedia! Here we usually create a spoiler chat for a month-ish so people can discuss new media. But after that month stuff gets moved here!

[obsidian thistle]

Well the new lore is neat

Assuming ya saw it fast enough or were lucky

[sour raven]

I didnt

😢

[serene iron]

they should do a remake of Reach, it could have better graphics, armor customization, and even longer campaign.

[unique rune]

no

[stoic hamlet]

No

[serene iron]

or a remaster

[unique rune]

still no
just play the existing game
it still looks fine

[empty bloom]

Hard no.

[gusty star]

I mean I would love for them to turn a lot of the surrounding lore of original trilogy into games

There’s so much else going on on Reach, I04/05, High Charity and elsewhere that would make great games

[hardy swan]

They should make it a Tv show

[serene iron]

totally, it would be great, better than the other one

[unique rune]

I love watching 8 hours of cardboard cutouts running around shooting things

[fallow jay]

I feel ya, even beyond them not fitting the art style Bungie went for with H3, they don’t really fit in as organic H3 assets because the texturing style is so different. Halo online’s assets fit H4’s artstyle and asset style better.

[versed helm]

i would love a nylund-type fall of reach halo game

[unborn patrol]

Yess exactly. This guy gets it

[soft plank]

I have a myth, some grunts are stronger than spartans. In Halo: CE there's a voice line if you stick a grunt with a plasma grenade and it goes like this:"Not again" meaning they have been stuck at least once and SURVIVED. Not even a spartan can survive that.

[carmine sleet]

I think you're looking too much into a random line of dialogue Grunts can say during gameplay

[soft plank]

But they say it

[carmine sleet]

The Grunts say allot of things, most of it aimed to make the player laugh at them

[soft plank]

Yeah you might be right, I might be overcomplicatng a random voice line

[carmine sleet]

It's the same with how random Brutes in Halo 3 will sometimes shout "He was my lover" when one of their pack mates dies

It's not a line of dialogue you're meant to look too much into

[soft plank]

It's a fun myth tho

[sleek vigil]

Nah, I'll look into it. We need gay Brutes ASAP.

[dusty ferry]

So like, the new firefight has lore

I’m just confused on what forerunner ai is in the academy

If that was a thing and not my eyes playing tricks on me

[empty bloom]

Not forerunner, just more Iratus.

[dusty ferry]

ahh

why though?

seems like a bad idea given what iratus did last time, or is that just an asset denial thing

[sour raven]

Yes, asset denial

[gusty star]

Bro are you actually being serious

[carmine sleet]

I do have to wonder how the other species in the Milky Way handle LGBT+ relationships. I imagine humanity in the 2500s is much more open and accepting than it is even in our current times

[empty bloom]

Sangheili likely don't actually have much of an opinion on LGBT stuff-life as a Sangheili warrior is notably a lonely existence.

[sleek vigil]

'than it is even in our current times' is a wierd phrasing. Humanity in 26th century is obviously going to be much progressive than 21st century.

[stoic hamlet]

I could see Sangheili or Jiralhanae having a very Greco-Roman slant to it, but yeah, as Trench says, relationships in at least a military context are seen as taboo and basically never done.

[carmine sleet]

Aye

[sleek vigil]

“We can exchange fluids” said that one in Halo 2, to The Arbiter.

[empty bloom]

I mean, when you consider cancer an easy fix and can hotswap a kidney in the field in under an hour, you don't have much in the way of reason to be upset that a kid knows that they want to be the opposite gender from their birth's circumstance.

[stoic hamlet]

I could see it depend on the planet, though they wouldn’t really be monocultures, we know some colonies weee founded in opposition to UEG policies. Like Mesra.

Well “policies”

[empty bloom]

I actually would expect Gao to be brutally repressive on that front.

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah, I could see that.

[sleek vigil]

I want to see the 26th century Twitter.

[stoic hamlet]

Depending on the source there wouldn’t really be one.

But then Halo constantly flip flops on what Humanity actually possesses when it comes to FTL comms.

[sleek vigil]

Would be fun to imagine. You are ruining it. ):

Though Halo has been very limited when it comes to representation. Obviously the focus is not on that, but it's strange that we don't see much of a cultural diversity aside from some differences.

[empty bloom]

Actually, come to think of it, Brute acceptance of LGBT relationships is likely dependent on Skein. I doubt the more tribal-minded, a'la Tartarus, would be all that approving, while those aligned more with Atriox's way of thinking likely turn a blind eye to it so long as they don't feel it interferes.

[sleek vigil]

I bet they have to make more offsprings after the major loss of Doisac.

[empty bloom]

Need to procreate would already be a major societal factor in brute culture pre-Doisac kablooey.

[stoic hamlet]

I think expecting something to be even close to what we have today in over 500 years is a mistake, and incredibly limiting to the narrative and worldbuilding.

Especially when Halo’s universe isn’t really made with “our” present in mind anyways.

[empty bloom]

Brute culture is post apocalyptic and hard-fought.

When I'm not in a class, I can make more of a comment about the anthropology of halo alien species. There's actually a lot you can learn by how they act and what their history is based upon our own.

[sleek vigil]

Have to agree. But I can see certain 'issues' on Earth due to Sangheili 'Asylum seekers' that'd have some parellels to real life.

[empty bloom]

Under the arbiter, there were some major social reforms that took place that would likely be decidedly unpopular with more conservative elites.

For example, giving women a right to join the military, and removing the stigma against medical professionals.

[sleek vigil]

I really want to see that side. We do get some glimpses, but nowhere near enough to get a grasp of various Sangheili beliefs and cultural differences.

I'm not asking for an HBO drama, but something grounded on Sangheilios or other Elite world would be cool.

[empty bloom]

Halo five does have some elites comment on it in the arbiter levels, including two elite doctors who have a short conversation about the society change that allowed them to be viewed as tolerated by the more traditional list warriors of the elites

Apparently, speech to text does not recognize the word traditionalist unless you say it very quickly

[sleek vigil]

I've used speech to text few times and I got bored of having to edit the things I said.

[hardy swan]

“Aliens are not real!”

[sleek vigil]

Though that's not to say there weren't non-warrior Elites on the former a Covenant. We obviously know there were designers and such.

[sleek vigil]

Please. 🙏🏼

[hardy swan]

becomes refugees
immediately kills humans
Hmmm what could it possibly be about

[empty bloom]

In some ways, the remnant you fight in four and five can be construed as a counterculture reactionary movement that is eerily comparable to reality. A culture of warriors who could no longer tolerate an existence where the people they lorded over we seen as equals instead of downtrodden by the rules of their system that they jealously guarded.

[sleek vigil]

Okay...

[sleek vigil]

Of course, that did not include Medics or Women.

[empty bloom]

As a soon to be prior service member due to counterculture reactionaries, and someone who studies counterculture movements in reality, this is pretty obvious, but someone less well-versed in the systems probably wouldn't recognize it as such.

[hardy swan]

I’m glad Arbiter is doing that change

One gripe about science fiction is that Klingon type species with only one characteristic should not even make it to space

[empty bloom]

There is actually a deep nuance to Klingons. It gets looked over because people are more addicted to talking about the proud warrior race, trope, but even foundational aspect of their honor system have a surprising amount of depth.

[orchid kettle]

Not entirely the same since the dynamic between humans and covenant is a smidge different, but Im still sad that sapien sunrise only ever did one thing and disappeared off the face of the earth

There's honestly a ton of story potential in the post war setting if you're willing to deal with stuff like this instead of some brand new galaxy-ending threat from beyond the stars

[hardy swan]

I hope the master chief book is a bromance with Arbiter

[empty bloom]

A traditionally dishonorable act may be considered honorable merrily by dint of success. Honor systems keep people honest in their dealings, which is also why they aren't necessarily internally consistent. The values in honor system Possesses a reflection of what the given culture values as a necessity. Generally, it is a framework of resource sharing under a different name.

[hardy swan]

But then again he is stuck on a ring

[empty bloom]

For example, a honor dual over a piece of territory, may prevent it from being squandered in a proper war, which costs material and manpower. By pushing for open war, you risk destroying what you were fighting for. Likewise, this is likely why and how legal systems exist.

[hardy swan]

There was that one Klingon Lawyer in Enterprise. Well we all know what happened to them

[sleek vigil]

Their existence is solely defined by being part of Halo 5's false marketing. LOL

[hardy swan]

Warrior. Honor. 500 cigarettes

[orchid kettle]

Still can't believe we had a book about a lil girl needing to realize that space racism was wrong, and the villains ended up being more evil aliens

instead of sapien sunrise

[sleek vigil]

The effects of Backpedaling from a planned narrative. ✨

[orchid kettle]

I mean I don't think it even had anything to do with that

I just think they done goofed

[wispy pewter]

reminds me of that Xindi plotline and how humans hated all aliens after that

[sleek vigil]

I mean, it kind of is. If they had followed the same tone they established in Halo 4 era, they could've eventually reached that point. But post-Halo 5 had a very different focus.

[orchid kettle]

like it doesn't even need to be sapien sunrise by name or anything, but it makes far more sense that the main character who needs to learn that racism is bad is exposed to, well, violent racists

showing her that the aliens don't have a monopoly on violence

[wispy pewter]

Sapien Sunrise is such a cool name

[sleek vigil]

Hard agree.

Another Hunt the Truth W

[orchid kettle]

but she just suffers a second attack by aliens who hate her and her way of life

[empty bloom]

It's also named to be analogous to a certain IRL dogwhistle in an extremely unsubtle way lmao

[orchid kettle]

but this time she's just supposed to be grown up enough to not let it bother her

[sleek vigil]

Huh? 😯

[orchid kettle]

like the story is just not supporting its own themes

[empty bloom]

First letter of both words.

And it's a human supremacist group.

[wispy pewter]

Thunderbolts

[empty bloom]

Remarkably unsubtle lmao

[dusty ferry]

Subtlety is for cowards if Star Trek is anything to go by

[empty bloom]

Whaaaat? I thought old Star Trek wasn't woke?

[dusty ferry]

Sorry, I forgor we were part of the agenda

[sleek vigil]

I got it. I got it.

[stoic hamlet]

This feels even weirder IMO when we look at the one Janissary kid.

Because she grew up hearing about how bad aliens were… but apparently she knows humans are the real monsters, or something. It feels somehow even more forced.

[orchid kettle]

Like imagine the delicious irony of the racist bully characters being shot by a human extremist

[stoic hamlet]

But I always felt Sapien Sunrise were an interesting idea that they immediately discarded, and it’s a shame, because there’s a lot of potential there.

Because technically they’re not wrong.

[orchid kettle]

instead he gets murdered by, again, an evil alien who hates him based on his species

[stoic hamlet]

They’re just really misguided, but their grievances are real.

[wispy pewter]

was it a brute

[orchid kettle]

No its the older brother of the Sangheili kid who goes to the school

Legacy of Onyx is weird

[wispy pewter]

dammit. This is why you can't coexist

[orchid kettle]

I can appreciate the sentiment but I think the execution leaves a lot to be desired

[sleek vigil]

That's a cursed sentence. I must read Legacy of Onyx now.

[orchid kettle]

"It is wrong to hate and fear a group of people, even as you routinely suffer deadly attacks from said group of people."

like, this almost feels like victim blaming

[wispy pewter]

in the context of Halo? absolutely wtf

[stoic hamlet]

It’s such a weird book, overall.

Because it doesn’t really do what the title might imply, even if I can understand the intent.

I think a better writer, using Sapien Sunrise as the antagonists, with a larger focus on Tom and Lucy, would have helped the book greatly. I don’t dislike Molly either, but she felt weirdly out of sorts.

[wispy pewter]

I know that there are friendly Elites, but if I were a human in post HCW Halo, I would be a full fledged member of Sapien Sunrise

[orchid kettle]

I think the issue mainly stems from how when Halo wants to talk about prejudice, it does so through the angle of like, American racism, with the aliens cast as the outgroup

but like, canonically, humanity is the lil guy victimized by a larger, stronger imperial force

[stoic hamlet]

Halo’s unfortunately a very American-centric series. IMO, especially in the modern world, as it tries to be more international, it’s a major hinderance.

Because a lot of stuff feels kind of token.

Either fully commit to them being space America, or start doing larger divergences.

The colonies especially have this issue.

Where the UNSC is space America, and the colonies are Space Spain, Space India, Space Hungary, etc.

We need more multicultural influences, on uniform designs, drill, etc.

[sleek vigil]

Ever after seeing the Arbiter?

[wispy pewter]

Friends are good

oh and that elite that wrote the poem

[sleek vigil]

To Palmer?

[sleek vigil]

TBF, they don't need do major divergence for this. There are so many planets and cultures that are completely untouched.

[sleek vigil]

Idk about that, Sapients clearly disagree on that.

[wispy pewter]

then go full Terran Empire why the heck not

[wispy pewter]

No Man, to Parongosky

[sleek vigil]

Oh, I was thinking about the Elite who fell in love with Palmer. Hope he ends up with her. 😂

[wispy pewter]

I was joking man

[orchid kettle]

It always made sense to me that humanity would coddle up to the Sangheili as much as possible because they should by all accounts be the only real galactic superpower left

[wispy pewter]

with the Infinity they were in Kilo 5 books but then of course there is always bigger threats

[sleek vigil]

I seriously started thinking what part of lore I missed. LOL

[stoic hamlet]

A super easy one is rank title based on sub-branch.

@empty bloom can correct me if I’m wrong, but in the US military/Army specifically, no matter your discipline, you always have the same rank title. A Private is a private no matter if they’re Armoured, Artillery, etc.

In Commonwealth countries this isn’t the case. A private and Corporal respectively in the artillery is a Gunner or a Bombardier, in a Cavalry regiment they’re a Trooper. In a Guards regiment our Warrant Officers are Colour Sergeants, etc, etc.

Small stuff like that for certain UNSC formations would help show the UN in UNSC.

[wispy pewter]

I liked how helpless the sangheli were when a 5 kilometer human ship fly uncontested above their homeworld

[sleek vigil]

I still find it hilarious that the Infinity was unveiled with “Designed for battle, now reporposed for peace” and the first thing it did was to join the Arbiter's battle.

[wispy pewter]

that is a dumb idea

what are they gonna do? replace the Macs with confetti cannons?

[orchid kettle]

I mean thats the thing, kilo-5 feels very artificial as the Infinity appears out of seemingly nowhere, and the Elites are "revealed" to literally have no skills or knowledge beyond warfare

[wispy pewter]

they were using grunts to farm

[orchid kettle]

and aw geez wouldn't you know it, the Engineers all disappeared one night

[wispy pewter]

they could have starved

[orchid kettle]

It bends over backwards to make humanity "the giants of the galaxy" and that was a big source of criticism at the time

[wispy pewter]

that was what Lasky was saying in that cinematic

for the Infinity

[orchid kettle]

and honestly even now when some stories tell us that the UNSC is a shadow of its former self after Cortana

[wispy pewter]

if you have read the latest book, it turns out there are many ships left

[orchid kettle]

but then Empty Throne tells us that Cortana just left Earth alone more or less after Halo 5

[wispy pewter]

but of course that one cruiser with the giant Mac gets destroyed by the banished

[orchid kettle]

Bad Blood paints this picture of a UNSC on the run

but nah, its fine, Cortana's reign didn't mean anything actually

which kinda begs the question of why everybody is so concerned about taking her out

[wispy pewter]

How does one hide a punic carrier from Cortana

[orchid kettle]

Like, which is it guys, is Cortana a joke or the greatest threat the galaxy has ever known

[sleek vigil]

I mean, that doesn't mean a Guardian suddenly won't show up to terrorise other human space.

[wispy pewter]

and every book they fight and leave right before cortana shows up

[orchid kettle]

You would expect her to actually be ruling is more so my point

The other thing too is that Cortana isn't just about emping planets when they act up, she's apparently been sending aid to Balaho, the Grunt homeworld, and the Grunts love her for it

[sleek vigil]

There were concept arts for Infinite (I believe) showing Cortana speak to people of colonies.

[orchid kettle]

Right, there's imagery of like Cortana showing up on a big screen like big brother

but if anything she's apparently extremely reclusive

[versed helm]

Why were Cortanas... "Physical Attributes" uhhhhhh "altered" in halo 4

[sleek vigil]

Oh, yeah. They agreed to be under her.

[versed helm]

Just curious

[hardy swan]

And killed every human on it

[sleek vigil]

For more human emotional investment obviously.

[hardy swan]

You don’t hate Halo aliens enough

[orchid kettle]

Technically the human diplomats died because their transport got shot with a fuel rod gun or something

[versed helm]

Is this a reference to the Halo shows stupid reasoning for chief without a helmet?

Cause that's funny if it was

[orchid kettle]

Throughout the rest of the book, its shown that people can surrender to Cortana, she doesn't just exterminate populations or whatever

Well apparently except if you lived on Luna which needed power to function, but I feel like if you asked Halo Studios these days, they'd clarify that actually Cortana left the emergency power intact so casualties were kept to a minimum

Just like how Empty Throne revealed that Cortana technically didn't destroy Sydney as retaliation for the UNSC refusing to surrender like Infinite implied

a ship just fell and whoopsie, it exploded so hard it leveled the city.

[wispy pewter]

didn't she take away the life support systems of science ships and killing everyone on board

I think it was one of the AI's the forerunner fella encountered in Epitaph

[orchid kettle]

Im just saying that Infinite material is weirdly obsessed with walking back on how evil and tyrannical Cortana was

They can't retcon her destroying Doisac though

which ends up being extra weird when paired with the recent attempts to whitewash Cortana's actions

[wispy pewter]

I mean what was she thinking? no crap a ship with a unstable FTL drive is gonna go kaboom

[sleek vigil]

No, it's the actual reason. They wanted her to feel more human than Chief.

[orchid kettle]

like for Halo 5 Cortana, it makes sense that if the Brutes resisted long enough, she'd just blow them up

[versed helm]

...

That's stupid ngl

Physical attributes shouldn't determine I guess "emotion based humanity" I guess

Idk

[sleek vigil]

It very much does. Cortana's appearence, especially her expressive face contributes to her character in Halo 4.

It's also because it's modeled after a real actress

[empty bloom]

Sorry btw in my class.

But yes, pretty much.

It's always kind of annoyed me that Halo really only has a UNSC Monoculture when realistically it wouldn't. A colonial born on Hungaryplanet Reach wouldn't have the same accent nor standing service concepts as the average UNSC Schmoe.

Standardization is a pipe dream but reality forces nonstandard metrics-any attempt to create a new standard usually results in another competing standard.

[wispy pewter]

meanwhile the death of a blue box brings tears to my eyes

[orchid kettle]

I think the UNSC being super standardized is fine characterization if we actually get to see CMA/CAA and planetary defense forces more often

[wispy pewter]

i don't like how in the books we got an AI spartan helmet, a blue box, a ship, and bla bla but in all the games every named AI is humanoid

[orchid kettle]

I think of Contact Harvest mainly where it described the militia as mostly clueless farm boys or middle aged former law enforcement

[empty bloom]

I see it as being a Navy and Marine thing, but never a UNSC ground force thing.

A largely static force doesn't need the utility of standardized equipment since most of it would realistically be localized.

[orchid kettle]

We're supposed to think of the UNSC Army as scrappy and under equipped as well, aren't we?

At least that's what it feels like with Reach giving them all outdated weapons.

[wispy pewter]

in Empty Throne, the militia for a human colony was ||a bunch of farmers with cyclopeses ||

[empty bloom]

Air Force would realistically have a higher budget *than the Army and a high number of locally built orbital and suborbital craft.

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah that’s the prevailing idea we’ve been given. They’re second rate.

[orchid kettle]

I honestly wonder if that's still supposed to be the case when Infinite has kinda returned to those Reach weapons with the MA40 and Bandit, and the idea that Army Rangers were among the first Delta-Six operators or whatever it was

Probably even more so than during the HCW, you'd figure an outer colony's defense force would just be the local gun nut and some able-bodied parents

Like what Oblivion had in the prologue chapter but ideally a larger focus of the story

[empty bloom]

It probably doesn't help that the most lore we have on colony life tends to be wayward anomalies and not backwaters.

[versed helm]

It's just because referencing reach is an easy way for them to nostalgia bait people

[stoic hamlet]

Tbf, Oblivion had them as proper semi-professional soldiery.

[obsidian thistle]

I may require 4 peeps later for a Canon* Run of the Linear Firefight maps!

Pretty simple really. We dress up as the Spartans (Battle Pass + Exchange) and dont die.

• Canon is subjective but thats the best we have.

(For Halopedia screenshots and so on)

[stoic hamlet]

I’m game.

Always happy to help my halopedia friends~

[radiant rock]

Sold

[unborn patrol]

pretty cool

not sure I'll get through the pass quickly enough would love to help otherwise

[arctic lotus]

very cool idea. i wish inwas available.

[obsidian thistle]

Well it wont be now

"later" is very literal

And a few of us will need to... ya know... beat the pass

[fallow jay]

I mean, what else would it have been? Halo aint exactly a series where you fight other humans, or fight robots.

You gotta keep in mind that Halo as a game and Halo as a story have different needs that can both be catered to.

Halo games are known for MP where you shoot players and campaigns where you shoot evil aliens.

The books are where Halo can explore different types of conflict.

Its the beauty of a multi-media franchise. Different stories depending on the medium

[stoic hamlet]

Wait, do we need to? What’re we missing from it that we don’t already have?

Oh, nvm, I reread.

[orchid kettle]

The issue is that Legacy of Onyx is undermining its own thematic goals. It's not even really about action anyway, as the main character is just a high school girl.

And if we're going to explore these themes and conflicts, we need to actually explore. Refusing to steer away from the paved path is not a quality, but a limitation here.

Can you even really call it "different types of conflicts" if the lines are always drawn purely as humans on one side, and aliens on the other?

It just sounds like the same conflict repackaged.

[orchid kettle]

if Legacy of Onyx is about exploring humanity's relation with the races of the Covenant in a peace-time scenario, then I think it is a mistake to omit the existence of any pushback to the Joint Occupation Zone on the human side of things. There does exist the character of Jul 'Mdama's son, who continues to fight the UNSC to avenge his mother's death, but he's not really paralleled with Molly so much as his brother, Asum. Who is also a son of 'Mdama but chooses to live in peace.

On a surface level this is fine, but I think its always going to be conceptually weaker to have the antagonist be a dark mirror of a secondary character instead of the main character who is actually experiencing an arc throughout the story. I also find that 'Mdama Jr's raid on the school happens too late in Molly's arc, as by that point, she had more or less already discarded her prejudice and had befriended Asum and another Unggoy character. Meaning any purpose Dural would have had as a possible "dark future" version of Molly is just not there, as she's basically already a full on good person now.

I think what drives a further wedge between Dural 'Mdama (the terrorist brother) and Molly being thematically linked is the fact that Dural is just the product of the hyper specific shenanigans of Kilo-5, while Molly is meant to be representative of the UEG population at large, at least the ones who have survived a Covenant glassing.

and like I mentioned before, the fact that Molly has to suffer a second deadly attack by aliens who very much do hate her for no other reason than because she was born human is confused messaging, and doesn't really change her in any way.

Like, is her friendship with Asum representative of Human-Sangheili relations going forward, or is Asum just "one of the good ones"

And part of this jank is unfortunately because of Legacy of Onyx being set in the same universe as Kilo-5, which gave us an incredibly artificial reason for Mdama and his group to hate humanity again after Halo 3, which was surely just because 343 wanted them back as enemies in Halo 4.

Outcasts and Envoy luckily feature Sangheili characters who have a lot more substance to their anti-human prejudice, especially because its in that same vein as Molly. They suffered the destruction of their home world at the hands of humans, and now distrusts them entirely, even though it was technically just the result of Gray Team making the wrong call and not emblematic of the entire species.

Of course not every form of prejudice is born out of a sympathetic backstory. But I think for Legacy of Onyx, it just would be stronger thematically if the antagonists were constructed in a way that they better held up a mirror to Molly.

[fallow jay]

I have a question-If those questions and characters are important to the books you're mentioning, why not explore those themes in future books?

When marketing Halo as an action FPS, Molly and her problems arent what the games are about. Maybe the books but definitely not the games

Like-as a gamer, I love Halo campaigns and love blowing up evil aliens. When reading the books, I can shift my mind and enjoy reading about the deeper aspects of the Halo universe and questions like that.

It doesnt mean though that I would want the games to shift and become like the books because that would rob the games of what they do best-giving us fun aliens to blow up and stop from doing evil things.

[orchid kettle]

I really don't know what you're describing.

You want the books to go "deeper" and explore new avenues, but you also don't want them to meaningful diverge from what the average person's expectation of Halo is?

I think its enough that the same pieces are on the board-- not that the board is laid out and played exactly the same every time.

Especially in a franchise that's 24 years old.

Also-- if somebody picked up Legacy of Onyx expecting an action romp, they are not making it to the final confrontation after hundreds of pages of characters just thinking and talking about their situation.

[orchid kettle]

I would also argue that the interpretation that Halo is just about humans vs aliens is flawed from the getgo, considering how Halo 2 immediately challenges this perspective by placing you in the shoes of the Arbiter. And the Arbiter, far more than Chief, is the actual protagonist of Halo 2, as he's the one ultimately with the character arc.

Hell, you could argue even in CE this would be a mischaracterization, as Human vs Aliens is just the starting premise of the setting, with the ring and its mysteries taking up more and more of the characters' attention.

Until stopping the Flood and Guilty Spark becomes your primary motivation.

Staten I think in general is just a big fan of making the situation far more complex than fans may be willing to recognize at first. Not just because of Arbiter in Halo 2, but even the audio logs of ODST show us the ugly side of humanity during the Covenant occupation, culminating in the Rookie needing to defend himself from a hostile corrupt cop. Then Staten wrote Shadow of Intent, which was all about challenging preconceptions, as it featured a giant Unggoy who was respected by his Sangheili peers, a female Sangheili warrior in a society that looks down upon such things, as well as a supersoldier San 'Shyuum, in stark contrast to how the race had exclusively been depicted as frail lil goblin men in floating thrones.

And said San 'Shyuum ends up convincing Half-Jaw that maybe the rest of the race are not so bad after all, and are deserving of mercy. And hey, its a pretty sizeable novella with no humans in sight.

[empty bloom]

It's mostly just a repackaged way of saying 'having a plot is for losers', from my parsing.

[serene kiln]

Question
The huge Flood outbreak on Installation 05 in Halo 2
Did that ever get properly contained?
Like, all the excitement moved over to High Charity but the Gravemind seemed to still be in the depths of the Ring, at least until it decided to make its move on the Ark
Did anyone ever go back and mop up what seemed like a pretty strong Flood presence remaining on 05?

[unique rune]

The Sangheili apparently went and glassed the surface of the ring to keep it under control.

[serene kiln]

Huh
Surprised that thing could handle being hit with a glassing beam but fair enough

[stoic hamlet]

Also Contact Harvest turning the game-Johnson into a PTSD riddled war criminal who spends around two chapters drowning away his sorrows in cheap bars with barely clad women in some vain attempt to forget his sins that he know he never will because they haunt him wherever he goes.

Staten, and the books in general, makes things much more complex, and Halo’s better for it.

The idea that “things should be dumbed down” because “Halo’s a game franchise” is incredibly reductive, and rather immature.

[ionic tiger]

Glad someone else sees the contradiction.

[candid tide]

Halo Reach is missing a feature and a modification in Firefight in Halo: The Master Chief Collection. Firefight is missing the elite player health modification, meaning that elite player health doesn't decrease on Easy difficulty and doesn't increase on Heroic or Legendary difficulty. Would it be possible to add the elite player health modification to all difficulties: Easy, Normal, Heroic, and Legendary? And the function to add bots is missing in the Firefight game mode. Would it be possible to add the function to add Elite and Spartan bots, please!
Have a nice day!

I'm a Halo fan!

[carmine sleet]

And this pertains to the lore how?

[spare kite]

Made a comment on Bucks comment about Greek Mythology and one of the points that I made was about how the Gods and Titans are the same thing, they arent some seperate species. Of course I had someone refute that by saying that Gods and Titans are completely sepperate things. Are we now at the point where I have to school casual Halo fans on Greek Mythology as well? lol.

[empty bloom]

I mean, it's a really poor analogy that's not really worth the effort to analyze as an objective fact in the context of Spartans anyways.

People take it as gospel. Which is blatantly wrong on the face of it. Course, that book also says that Locke got trounced by Chief, which... Looking at the actual fight, isn't anywhere close to objective. So, unreliable narrator.

[hardy swan]

The cutscenes are not 100% canon

[empty bloom]

Neither is the subjective analysis of events in universe.

From an in-universe character or otherwise.

If Buck says X, and cutscene says Y, I'm more inclined to believe the cutscene as it's closer to an objective source than the subjective narrator.

[hardy swan]

The cutscene was poorly made ngl. Fight felt way too slow

[empty bloom]

Too bad.

[hardy swan]

All Titans are gods, but not all gods are titans

[stoic hamlet]

The analogy is so poor it’s not even really worth going into except to say that it’s not a good analogy.

[spare kite]

Oh yea it wasnt a serious analysis of the quote. I always just found it funny because its so wrong on two fronts, both in universe and in terms of what the mythology actually is. Its honestly one of my favorite quotes because its written in such a way that it points to Matt thinking this about the greek gods/titans lol.

[hardy swan]

Let’s just go with the fact that the Titans are one generation above the Olympians

[empty bloom]

I find it funny because Demigods also did sometimes beat Gods, but never really interacted with Titans as far as I recall.

[hardy swan]

Percy Jacks—

[empty bloom]

Hell, even normal mortals beat gods without assistance, but were usually punished jealously for that act.

[spare kite]

Yea they're the same thing. Any use of the word Titan or Olympian is just a title used for Gods that predate the Olympus Gods overthrowing the Titans.

[empty bloom]

I'm very used to people taking it as gospel for some reason. Not hard to guess where I stand on the subject given my response, lmao.

[hardy swan]

Titan better because one of them gave us fire while Zeus tried to kill us so Buck is right

[wispy pewter]

Lol

if you throw that away Buck did mention how John 117 crashed fromm the surface and managed to live, something he probably couldn't do. Idk man he seems pretty sure the IIs were somehow superior

[spare kite]

Someone just asked me for a physical image of a quote when I provided them a digital quote (ebook) lol. People are getting desperate to try and disprove the lore lol.

[empty bloom]

Again, subjective statement. I don't think Buck is actually correct at all.

[wispy pewter]

I guess if most IVs have that kind of mentality it answers your question why Hovarth wanted him

[empty bloom]

If so, that's a stupid way to write your supersoldier mindset.

And that's why I tend to write my IVs as merely respectful, not gawking in awe as someone literally the same height as them walks into the room in drab.

[wispy pewter]

that cutscene where all the IVs stumble at Chief walking at the end of Halo 4 must annoy you huh

[empty bloom]

Yes.

[unique rune]

Buck’s never tried falling from orbit with the help of a Forerunner door so it’s not like he’d know

[empty bloom]

Chief's really only fallen from what could be considered 'orbit' once anyways.

[wispy pewter]

it's still funny how they made him 2 heads taller than Palmer

[sleek vigil]

Can I join?

[spare kite]

The thing is that this doesnt really contradict anything. 1: Buck doesnt know if he could actually survive that, 2: Orbit to surface falls arent the same things. There are a lot of variable that can change Spartan A surviving it and Spartan B not.

[empty bloom]

(See; Red-15)

[sleek vigil]

I think that's a genuine mistake on DIGIC's part.

[spare kite]

Hell under the correct circumstance I could survive one lol

[wispy pewter]

im pretty sure Gen 3 Mjolnir has flaps or thrsters right

or are they add ons

[empty bloom]

Unclear.

[sleek vigil]

Attachments.

It's very modular. Easy to mass produce.

[empty bloom]

Like, IIRC the description for the thruster pack in Infinite was that it supplements the onboard thrusters so that it works like the late stage GEN2 system.

[wispy pewter]

yeah I think buck was downplaying himself

but then again he saw his team leader get his butt slapped by Master Chief

[empty bloom]

That book is written when he was just barely starting to clamber back up to thinking he's worthy of a command position again.

[sleek vigil]

Osiris didn't even attempt at trying to help Locke. 😭

[empty bloom]

Because technically, 5 is actually near when Buck was at his lowest morale.

[wispy pewter]

if they joined Blue team would

[empty bloom]

Blue team had left the area by the time Locke got his BR smashed.

[sleek vigil]

John actually sent Blue Team away already.

[wispy pewter]

oh wait yeah

[empty bloom]

And Osiris was pretty far, too far to jump.

[sleek vigil]

Thrusters...

[empty bloom]

Doubt they'd have been enough to do it safely, but eh.

[sleek vigil]

Also, not that far, really.

[wispy pewter]

in multiplayer you don

don't take fall damage at all

[empty bloom]

Halo 5 has fall damage.

[wispy pewter]

damn

[sleek vigil]

I mean, they could fall into he lava pit.

[spare kite]

Honestly im fine with Chief dominating Locke. My issue is when people use that to downplay the 4's. Even without readin Rubicon idk how u can finish Infinite thinking that the 4's are weak. Those audio logs should be enough to completely shift peoples view on the 4's.

[sleek vigil]

I'm sure that's lethal or something like that.

[wispy pewter]

they are not weak they just aren't better as the IIs

[sleek vigil]

Most people don't see it like that.

[empty bloom]

I have an issue with it because it downplays how well Locke actually did in the fight-he was even overpowering Chief at the end. He literally lost due to a headbutt at a bad time.

[sleek vigil]

The choreography was... I'd say it was basic.

[wispy pewter]

Well they should because what they lack in brute strenth they make up with resourcefulness or wahtever
-MC

[spare kite]

And I think this is what Spartan 2 stans dont get. They were never meant to be stronger or equal to the 2's. Calling them weaker isnt a clapback because that was never the intention of the Spartan 4 program.

barring the prototype 4's

[empty bloom]

IVs are objectively the best way to run a Spartan program tbh.

Gets rid of the icky eugenics stuff and only takes consenting adults, and does it en masse.

[wispy pewter]

Yeah but I think they should also focus more on background check since it's been 3-4 traitor IVs now?

[spare kite]

Absolutely the Spartan 4 program trounces the previous 2 no question.

[empty bloom]

It's why intelligently run special forces IRL prize diversity of background and former experience.

[sleek vigil]

Eh, when IVs go back to society, there'd be some... issues.

[wispy pewter]

I really hate how they have Spartan traitors it just means whoever is in charge of finding candidates is dumb

[spare kite]

Heh what u dont get is that 4's are meant to be the entirety of society

[sleek vigil]

Admiral Musa Ghanem slander.

[empty bloom]

I used to hate it, but after some thought I kinda think it makes sense.

[unique rune]

3-4 out of at least a thousand or so

do we want to talk about at least 1 out of 75 in the Spartan-II program and the general Insurrectionist sympathizers that have been inside the UNSC for ages

[sleek vigil]

They are not there yet. LOL
While it may seem like there's a whole lot of them, it's actually a very low number.

[wispy pewter]

I mean sympathising with other humans is fine what I don't get is allining yourself with genocidal aliens

[empty bloom]

The UNSC never really solved the systemic issues that caused it to have a rebellion in the first place, the war just put those problems on hold and reduced their willingness to fight reactionaries in their ranks.

[spare kite]

Background checks for anything would help, but how do u stop a Spartan from TURNING traitor that otherwise has nothing in their background to indicate them possibly going traitor. The fact of the matter is that unless you indoctrinate your soldiers like the 2's and 3's, your soldiers going traitor is always going to be there.

[empty bloom]

So you have people deeply embedded in the system after 20+ years of war who now have access beyond anything they'd normally have, who are back to being mad at the government for being awful to people you care about.

[sleek vigil]

They need to install Emotional Inhibitor Pallets.

[spare kite]

Absolutely lol. Was just pointing fun at Halsey's goal of her spartans being the next step for humanity lol .

[sleek vigil]

Shr can't stop telling us how her Spartans are the next step of human race.

[wispy pewter]

Idk that is ONI's job

[empty bloom]

It is everyone's job. OPSEC is a whole pie effort.

[wispy pewter]

does the IIIs have turncloaks? we know they are loyal because they hate what the aliens did to their homeworld

[sleek vigil]

I think the Inhibitor Pallet would actually be a viable idea. Not joking.

[empty bloom]

Most died before they would've been able to.

[wispy pewter]

Execute Order 66

good soldiers follow orders!

[empty bloom]

And you'd be wrong.

Actual fieldcraft and operational initiative requires an unburdened and unshackled mind dedicated to the cause. Anything that forces it is a detriment.

[stoic hamlet]

They’re said to be the most loyal of all generations.

So no.

[wispy pewter]

What Tarkin says. Loyal troops are far more valuable then clones. People who willingly enlist

[spare kite]

The thing with the issues at least to me is that the UNSC could have never solved these issues without giving away some lvl of power to the outer colonies. The only way to solve overextenstion is giving away some lvl of authority and oversight. We saw that with the CMA and CAA but we saw how distance breeds corruption.

[empty bloom]

And they won't, in fact they restarted the issues-See the commentary in 5 on Meridian by Tanaka and Buck.

[unique rune]

Only one S-IV has done that and that was Ilsa Zane who went nuts and was pretty much tossed in the trash by the UNSC
I don’t see why she’d be particularly interested in saving humanity at any point

[stoic hamlet]

Which isn’t a problem anymore because instant comms and Slipspace trips take hours.

I don’t like it, but the issues are solved by proxy.

[sleek vigil]

Master Chief is his own hero. He doesn't follow orders. ✊

[wispy pewter]

Ilsa Zane somehow survives the vacuum of space without a suit

[stoic hamlet]

So does Jun

[sleek vigil]

*for a limited time

[wispy pewter]

ARREST THAT MAN

[spare kite]

Absolutely. With 343 having an interest in playing with these what ifs I would be interested to see a universe in which the UNSC always had these capabilities in terms of slipsace and communication. It would be interesting to see how insurrection would have been played out and handled.

[sleek vigil]

He is angry. Even saying Hi will result in you being punched on the face.

[wispy pewter]

Master Chief would never hurt civilians. Maybe sometimes a random marine

[empty bloom]

Forced compliance is the lowest reliability in real people, even through chemical means.

Loyalty is good, but as you can see by gestures broadly at authoritarian regimes, overvaluing it makes you sloppy.

Earned trust and rewarding capability while providing honest and fair dealings is best. You want talent that wants to work for you.

[sleek vigil]

Oh, you still didn't get it? I'm talking about John, the tragic hero.

[empty bloom]

Like, that's the huge issue with many governments that fail. Valuing loyalty over capability is not only dishonest, it's reckless and doomed to fail.

[hardy swan]

Disney ruined stormtroopers by making one of them join the rebels

[empty bloom]

...

[hardy swan]

I’m talking about you Finn

[unique rune]

isn’t Tarkin repeatedly proven to be an idiot with stupid ideas about doctrine lol

[empty bloom]

Finn is literally the best character of the sequels, what?

[sleek vigil]

One of the issues with the Arab militaries.

[empty bloom]

One of many, lmao. That and refusing to train their successors for fear of them taking over the job early.

[hardy swan]

Yeah he is doesn’t stop me from disliking the fact he is a rebel

[empty bloom]

... So you like the Fascists?

[hardy swan]

Would have been better if he was the force sensitive one

[sleek vigil]

They'll gladly imprison any potential successors. LOL.

[hardy swan]

Nuh uh

[empty bloom]

People who unironically like the Empire are kinda failing at media literacy 101.

I say kinda but no, it's just flatly outright failing.

[empty bloom]

True, I'm more meaning crap I've seen, like Tank Commanders following US troops who are distributing instructional pamphlets to their crews.

[hardy swan]

Filoni making me dislike the new republic tbh

[stoic hamlet]

I think Andor portrays them really well, and I’ve always thought they looked cool, but yeah, anyone who likes them really sucks with media literacy.

[empty bloom]

I mean, that's kinda the point of Fascism. You look cool to hide the rust and disease under the surface.

[hardy swan]

Kinda unironic people don’t realize what the UNSC is to the POV of innies

[empty bloom]

The innocent blood and guts you gleefully trample in your pursuit of faux prestige.

[stoic hamlet]

They’re authoritarian, but not fascist.

[stoic hamlet]

Mhm.

You dress it up in pomp and circumstance, ascribe noble goals to it, and it helps hide the atrocities, at least on a surface level.

But it’s clear as day.

[empty bloom]

It's surprising easy to ignore that the early snow is actually your neighbors.

[sleek vigil]

They do exhibit certain tendencies.

[spare kite]

If you play swbf2 the thing is that we get an indication that the core worlds are absolutely bliss lol. I believe in one of the missions when u play as Iden who is a special forces soldier in the empire, in of the mission she says something along the lines of "I didnt know that the Empire acted like this", when she is shown the Empire basically brutally policing a world. Its a really weird comment.

[empty bloom]

Halo 5 beats you over the head with it, lmao.

[sleek vigil]

Please don't spoil Andor guys. I am still planning on watching it. 😭

[empty bloom]

Unfortunately, people didn't freaking listen

[hardy swan]

Don’t worry Cassian lives

[sleek vigil]

People refuse to listen to in-game dialogues. It hurts.

[stoic hamlet]

Not of fascism. But of authoritarianism.

They have no central figure to worship (though I guess Chief comes close) nor do they really ascribe any sort of nobility or anything to their cause. They’re not about blind obedience either.

[empty bloom]

Tanaka and Buck both being audibly irritated at Vale's staggering ignorance of Colonial plights, lmao

[sleek vigil]

Cheif worship is more of hero worship.

[sleek vigil]

I need to hear those lines again.

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah. There’s no real analogue to the typical fascist playbook.

[hardy swan]

Doesn’t the UNSC act on their own. I don’t think they are under the civilian government

[stoic hamlet]

All fascists are authoritarian, but not all authoritarians are fascist.

[empty bloom]

The Human Covenant war was a temporary change to a wartime government that was relinquished by Lord Hood at the war's conclusion.

The UEG went back under civilian governance after the war was over.

That alone kinda proves the UNSC isn't actually Fascist, lmao.

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah.

[hardy swan]

They are a democracy 😃

[orchid kettle]

Id like to point out that , at least by some definitions, fascism doesn't necessarily require a person who is worshipped

[hardy swan]

I wonder how does elections work on glassed planets

[stoic hamlet]

Mesra I’d argue also shows it, during the Insurrection.

It’s an independent colony that the UEG allows and openly works with… you know, until they get glassed.

[empty bloom]

(As an aside-If someone ever tells you the US is a Republic, not a Democracy, they are wrong. A Republic is a form of Democracy that utilizes representatives for effeciency.)

[sleek vigil]

Lord Hood worked to get the power back to UEG. UEG now has a civilian elected president.

[spare kite]

Im sorry im kind of a UEG shill lol. I understand that they do bad things and I dont deny nor condone it. But what 400+ years of relative peace is something that I cannot scoff at. Clearly they did something right they just have some things to work on like most governing bodies do.

[orchid kettle]

Ur-Fascism makes mention of things like the "cult of action", tradition, and death

[ionic tiger]

They have a president, they have senators, I'd imagine it probably functions similarly to the US.

[sleek vigil]

Del Rio was a senetor!

[stoic hamlet]

Could also be like Ireland.

[empty bloom]

It's a shame that we don't have that big of a perspective on how the UEG is actually run.

[sleek vigil]

But him talking slander of The Master Chief got leaked to the public, it was probably a PR disaster, so he resigned because of 'family reasons'. 😂

[stoic hamlet]

But because it’s Halo, I’d assume it’s like the US, yeah.

[empty bloom]

We know they have Senators and a President, and we know that Colonials do not have much of a say in the goings-on of governance, which is why they are angry at all.

[hardy swan]

If the UEG is supposedly humanity’s central government then they must be doing something wrong that some humans don’t wanna be part of it

[ionic tiger]

Make no mistake, I know the US isn't the only country to operate as such. But it's probably something most of the folks who've worked on Halo are familair with as a frame of reference.

[empty bloom]

No, humans are really good at inventing problems even in perfection.

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah. I’m just offering an alternative.

[ionic tiger]

Yes and no. There are issues of representation and taxation...but there will always be segments of the population to go their own way.

[spare kite]

Tbf humanity had like 400+ years of relative peace so clearly they were doing something right.

[empty bloom]

I swear though, people who think republics aren't a form of democracy irritate the living hell out of me.

[hardy swan]

Man we need a prequel trilogy on humanity or something

[empty bloom]

What the hell do you think you elect reps for? The fun of it?

[orchid kettle]

I feel like more than anything people's reaction to the UNSC as a narrative element can be very telling for exposing their own fascist tendencies

[sleek vigil]

Twitter meltdown day?

[stoic hamlet]

In the sense of justification?

[orchid kettle]

ye

[empty bloom]

"Here's why the Imperium of Man's horrible acts are necessary"

[orchid kettle]

Or like a rejection of ever recognizing the conflicts in Halo are being more complex than Humans Good, Aliens Bad

[spare kite]

Ive always been of the opinion that the UEG/UNSC even though I understood the plights of the outer colonies, had the more reasonable position. Especially now with well everything thats going on in the world, a unified humanity is something that I just cant let go of.

[sleek vigil]

The writing of that storyline seriously has to walk on a fine line.

[stoic hamlet]

Well those people are morons, lol

But the amount of effort I’d need to expel to show that isn’t worth my time.

[hardy swan]

Ape together strong fr

[empty bloom]

What's funny to me is that Microsoft literally has a franchise where you unironically play as a frontline soldier for a Fascist government.

But it isn't Halo.

[hardy swan]

Helldivers

[stoic hamlet]

Ah, Gears.

[orchid kettle]

I think the issue, I assume, comes from whether or not humanity is truly united and equally represented, or if the colonies find themselves at the mercy of Earth and its whims

[hardy swan]

I love democracy and super earth

[empty bloom]

Gears of War. Microsoft doesn't own Helldivers.

[stoic hamlet]

Helldivers is Sony.

[orchid kettle]

CH doesn't exactly paint this picture of the colonies getting their way a lot

[stoic hamlet]

(And it’s a very obvious satire)

[empty bloom]

I had (Emphasis on had) a friend who was incredibly irritated in Gears 5 when one of the stranded call your character a Fascist, and I just kinda laughed at them for not understanding how true that was.

[hardy swan]

But then again who is the right, the bugs or the Terran Federation

[ionic tiger]

Also gotta factor in that the Outer Colonies weren't where the "best and brightest" were sent with most corporate sponsors looking to make a buck with resource extraction than anything. Factor in many going to the OCs to remove themselves from Earth's control and...well...an independent spirit emerges.

[orchid kettle]

There's also an argument to be made about how colonies being independent doesn't necessarily mean they're instantly and forever Earth's enemy

[empty bloom]

The secret to Helldivers is knowing that Super Earth literally invented almost all of its own problems by meddling in other factions who simply matched aggression to a fever pitch.

[hardy swan]

I guess it’s like countries. They have distinct cultures and languages and unifying them will cause something like Yugoslavia to happen

[ionic tiger]

Neither? If we're talking the books its just two powerful space-faring species slugging it out for the same territory. Morals or ethics ironically factor little in that conflict.

[empty bloom]

Oh, and knowing that Super Earth actually really kinda sucks at fighting an actual war, apparently.

[spare kite]

Oh absolutely, and u can even argue that without proper representation is humanity even unified. It could be argued that The Outer colonies are basically their own entity. But just for me that idea of a unified humanity is such a strong argument for me, that unless there's some absolutely existential threat. I cannot think of something that would change my position. And maybe this is less in lore story, and more my views on the current state of the real world. A unified humanity is such a strong idealistic wish for me.,

[orchid kettle]

Dirt and Impossible Life both put forward this idea that as time goes on, humans are not going to defer to Earth forever just because its the "motherland"

and I think that was bound to happen no matter who originally settled the colonies

[stoic hamlet]

It’s more so that they’ve degraded.

They were competent… a hundred years ago.

[hardy swan]

Yeah they do but they got an unlimited supply of divers

[empty bloom]

Realistically, it is not unlimited-and neither are the SEAF troops you only ever find very dead.

[stoic hamlet]

They’ve drunk their own cool aid and got complacent.

[ionic tiger]

You also see that happen with the American revolution. Time and distance and the ability to self-rule gradually eroded the notion of the colonists being "British", though it wasn't an overnight thing by any means.

[empty bloom]

Turns out, people really don't like having their constituents extradited without cause and dislike being taxed without actual representation.

Who knew?

[orchid kettle]

Yeah its always interested me how american audiences arent quick to feel at least somewhat sympathetic towards the Innies given, you know, American history

[hardy swan]

Earth should be every Humans home world

[stoic hamlet]

Because they’ve been isolated from that for centuries.

[empty bloom]

Sooo do you just say stuff like this for a rise or what?

[ionic tiger]

Why if your famaily is several generations removed and you've never even been to the place?

[spare kite]

Idk my experience has been the opposite at least online.

[empty bloom]

Putting on my polsci hat-I'm not surprised in the slightest. Americans haven't really suffered what spawned them in centuries.

[orchid kettle]

But a big part of that as well could be because ever since 2007, with the introduction of CH, the Innies have become more evocative of middle-eastern terrorists, where they started to become suicide bombers

[stoic hamlet]

It’s the same reason (IMO) they lack a major respect for the dangers of fascism, war, and etc.

They’ve been isolated from the effects for longer than most.

[hardy swan]

If it’s already been that long then that colony should already been under the influence of Earth for so long it should never be different. There’s a reason why most of the Anglo sphere are still strong allies

[empty bloom]

[orchid kettle]

And in 2007, CH was honestly pretty brave to liken the Insurrection to the war on terror-- and have Johnson feel deeply ashamed of his actions

[spare kite]

I think if I was from some colony I would always have awe for Earth, but I wouldnt consider it home lol.

[ionic tiger]

Your local community is going to have more of an influence on your life than some nebulous place called Earth thousands of light years away.

[stoic hamlet]

What country do you live in right now?

As a hypothetical

[spare kite]

US

[orchid kettle]

Especially in a universe where FTL communications don't exist

[hardy swan]

Realistically tbh when colonising a planet you’re gonna be bringing with you dozens of things from earth

[stoic hamlet]

What’s your ancestry?

Do you have awe for that place?

[orchid kettle]

Man I love the 26th century pony express detail in CH

[stoic hamlet]

Shame that’s gone now…

[ionic tiger]

And the original American colonists brought a lot from England...but eventually no longer considered themselves English.

[orchid kettle]

Really goes a long way in further explaining why colonists would feel disconnected from earth

[empty bloom]

Ironically, the last vestiges of that time's british accent live on in the southern drawl and twang.

[hardy swan]

Did you know Naomi’s planet still eats surstromming and has a giant IKEA in the town centre?

[ionic tiger]

Did you know they still drink tea in the US?

[spare kite]

Actually. It felt like home. My people dont have a country but we settled in Thailand and Laos. I recently went to Thailand last January and going to the villages and locations that my people populate and it oddly didnt feel foreign. It in a way felt more like home because as ive grown up ive distanced myself more from my culture. And so in Thailand I was just presented with what I used to have.

[orchid kettle]

Is it? I know the UNSC acquires FTL comms at some nebulous point in time, but its still pony express pre-2525, right?

[hardy swan]

[empty bloom]

Wisconsin still has a proud favoritism of German cuisine due to having a high German population.

[stoic hamlet]

You do also see vestiges of the original Acadian settlers that were relocated from Atlantic Canada, in the form of Cajun French.

[sleek vigil]

Others don't?

[hardy swan]

And French Canadians exist apparently

What are they called again

Oh right Quebec

[empty bloom]

Depends on who you ask, lmao.

I've seen colorful opinions.

Yeah, colorful. That's the word I'll go with.

[spare kite]

From Wisconsin and I ate at a German buffet in Thailand. Turns out that its a popular spot for people in the Wisconsin area lol.

[stoic hamlet]

Less than Canada, though.

Which is rather fascinating. We’ve kept a lot more britishisms than the yanks. Understandably so, but it’s neat.

[stoic hamlet]

Québécois.

[ionic tiger]

Like, yes, you can transplant cultural ideas and things...but just like you can watch cricket, drink tea, and love Big Ben in the US without being British.

[empty bloom]

America is also extremely, extremely vulnerable to reactionary countercultural movements by dint of what it accepts as gospel.

Which itself is a consequence of its ties to British culture-apparently.

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah.

But the lore’s changing so much with regards to it, I wouldn’t be surprised if they drop even that.

[empty bloom]

Sidestepping Rule 5 for this because actually talking about this in detail will get me a warning because it involves modern discussions on American politics.

Point is, there's always going to be a thread of historical connection between colonies and colonial states. But that does not mean the Colonial state must always be accepted by the colonials.

[hardy swan]

UNSC has comms that can allow people light years away to communicate with each other I’m pretty sure

[orchid kettle]

Yeah, luckily so far, the only Insurrection-related retcon that's annoyed me is the whole deal with Cole's hot rebel gf being part of that legion of doom thing from silent storm

[empty bloom]

A poorly run colony will make do with what it gets until it can't, and then it will make its own-and it will be mighty PO'd that it has to.

What's the saying? The Axe forgets, the tree remembers?

[orchid kettle]

I always found it a lil silly that seemingly every UEG colony was settled by Earthlings, for lack of a better word

and not, you know, by people from other established colonies

do families never move

[ionic tiger]

I'd also wonder what loyalty to Earth places like Aleria should have since the UEG and Inner Colonies gave them the middle finger and abanonded them during the Covenant War.

[sleek vigil]

Lasky kinda feels that way.

[hardy swan]

It makes sense considering most colonies should realistically require hundreds of years to settle in since you know terraforming isn’t something done in one day

[stoic hamlet]

I liked that in the Silver Timeline Mamore was settled by Jovians.

[orchid kettle]

Well that's why the idea is that they more or less just find planets that are already habitable

[stoic hamlet]

I’m assuming that’s pulled from some internal 343 document, but hasn’t been brought over to canon officially yet.

[hardy swan]

I mean if humans are colonising Alpha Centauri, it’s gonna take a while to set everything up. It’s not like the Robinsons would immediately want to go to Reach or something

[orchid kettle]

dare i say because said worlds were likely made so by the forerunners/ancient humanity in the distant past and modern humans are just retracing their steps

like, that kind of fits with how it feels like there's some grand forerunner artifact under every colony

[hardy swan]

I’m guessing there is forerunners on planets that sustains life and it’s just a coincidence

[stoic hamlet]

I sure wish there wasn’t.

[empty bloom]

I'm in Spain but without the S.

[ionic tiger]

Kinda why I liked the idea of the Assembly more or less sectioning off planets if there were things on it humanity wasn't ready for.

[hardy swan]

Avengers assemble

[empty bloom]

... So would the Assembly effectively be Roko's Basilisk?

[orchid kettle]

its always like, literally under the one human settlement on the planet too

[empty bloom]

Or more of a council of Roko's... Basilisks?

[orchid kettle]

And not just like, on the other side of the world

[hardy swan]

Why Kenya and not the Atlantic fr

[orchid kettle]

Like the Lithos and whatever the macguffin is in Envoy

[ionic tiger]

To be fair for Earth, it seems like there were sites the Covenant found interesting across the planet. It's just the big one was in Kenya.

[orchid kettle]

And I guess Meridian too

[hardy swan]

Makes me think the early pioneers will build their settlements on ground with high energy readings

[orchid kettle]

I guess its just convenient for our characters to not have to drive too far to reach

[spare kite]

why does a part of me want Halo to just do away with Forerunners, Covenant remnant/splits......Chief etc.

[hardy swan]

You can’t do away Chief. He is literally Halo

[ionic tiger]

I wouldn't have any issues moving away from Chief.

[empty bloom]

Same reason I don't like Star Wars' focus on the Jedi lmao

[spare kite]

No please it needs to go past Chief at least

[empty bloom]

Damn, even I don't hate Reach that much.

And I hate Reach.

[spare kite]

bruh I love reach lol

[orchid kettle]

I am putting Chief back in the cryopod

or really all Spartans

their time has passed

[hardy swan]

Huh

[sleek vigil]

Just wait till 2589. Then we'll usher a truly new dawn.

[hardy swan]

Recolonisation of Reach

I wonder if Chief is still alive there

[ionic tiger]

I'd love to end Chief's story where it began: on a schoolyard playground. Let the man turn his sword into a plowshare and educate a new generation that hasn't had to know war and terror. Might be a pretty imposing grade school teacher, but I think John would find contentment in it.

[hardy swan]

I wonder if his real parents are still alive

[empty bloom]

His homeworld was glassed and abandoned in 2530 and resettled in 2557.

[sleek vigil]

I just received a message saying one of my message has been deleted because of the word R and double E. Not sure what that means.

[empty bloom]

4channers spammed it so now that word is banned.

[sleek vigil]

Oh, okay. I make a lot of typos

[ionic tiger]

"He shall judge between the nations, and shall decide disputes for many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore."

[sleek vigil]

Too many Shalls

[hardy swan]

Feels bad for Johns parents who will never get to meet their son

[empty bloom]

NGL, part of the reason I get heated about the constant misunderstanding of why Cortana turned against the UEG in Halo 5 is because of the line where she outright tells Chief that she's doing this for the Spartan IIs.

[hardy swan]

Staffan didn’t even receive compensation did he

[ionic tiger]

Threatening to glass Earth will do that.

[empty bloom]

She wanted to have a world where people like the IIs didn't have to be made.

[hardy swan]

Oh right he was a terrorist

[empty bloom]

Honestly, I think in that mindset, her entire rationale for hating IVs must've come from them willingly signing on for that life as a mockery of the IIs.

[sleek vigil]

Like Halsey

Of course she says she isn't like Halsey. LOL

[ionic tiger]

Yes...while also continuing to use people forcibly conscripted into being literal war machines (Promethean Knights). Like, her message sounds good, but her iron fist was only going to make further conflict inevitable.

[empty bloom]

Path laid to hell and all that.

Like mother, like daughter.

[ionic tiger]

Granted, MY problem with how Cortana acts stems from her little voicemail to John about how she realizes where she went wrong was because she forgot Chief and her were supposed to be a team...as if Chief would be okay with her style of regime.

[empty bloom]

In Infinite?

[ionic tiger]

Yeah

[empty bloom]

Yeah, that sort of crap happens when you decide to completely implode a story due to shortsighted fan backlash.

=v=

No, I'm not salty at all, who told you?

[ionic tiger]

Like, no, Cortana, you went wrong by blowing up Sydney lol

[empty bloom]

Her and Chief were supposed to press the nuke button together, silly.

[ionic tiger]

And blowing up Doisac to just spite Atriox was a choice.

Like, I think if you really tried the idea of Cortana having to be an unwilling antagonist trying to make a better future for Chief and mankind is an idea that COULD work. But when she died in 4 that was a good send off.

[empty bloom]

5's honestly the plot I have the least problems with in terms of post-Reach Halo stories.

[ionic tiger]

I'm not as heated about it as I used to be. But I do still feel a bit of lingering resentment about being lied to in the lead up. Just a bit.

[empty bloom]

It problably helps that I vehemently hated HtT lmao

Actually, I hated most of 5's advertisement material

(I don't like rogue supersoldier plots)

[stoic hamlet]

They’re played out.

[ionic tiger]

I liked Hunt the Truth a lot. But as we’ve come to find out there was a huge disconnect between the people who made it and 343.

[orchid kettle]

Im just annoyed my OCs now have to know who Cortana is

[stoic hamlet]

You can only do the rogue super soldier plotline so many times, and it feels like it’s all anyone does anymore.

[ionic tiger]

I can appreciate how it does call out the whole blind hero worship towards the Chief thing, even if within that narrative he’s not really doing anything wrong.

[stoic hamlet]

I mean, does it though?

Because Giraud never doubts Chief at all.

He’s 100% on the “this guy can do no wrong ahd I trust him implicitly” at every turn.

[ionic tiger]

No, but I think it was Mishak (?) raise the point of having someone be able to run around with no accountability isn’t a good thing. And Halo 5 does touch on that.

[stoic hamlet]

Not well enough, though, because John suffers no actual consequences.

[orchid kettle]

Id argue that HtT isn't really about Chief being rogue, not in s1 at least

[stoic hamlet]

He’s always protected.

[orchid kettle]

It was basically just one episode and its quickly resolved

[empty bloom]

I'm having flashbacks to a conversation I had in the Halopedia discord where someone said they'd be fine with Chief outright committing some horrible acts that I can't describe here because of his status as a war hero.

[ionic tiger]

Even if it’s not perfect, I still appreciate they brought it up. Especially since so many people get heated at the idea he’d be considered AWOL after going AWOL.

[empty bloom]

Help.

[stoic hamlet]

Even in the early war period, someone covers for him.

Oblivion especially is a case of John making major mistakes that should have gotten hin charged, but he gets a free pass and no consequences. He even asks for them.

The whole “having a guy with no accountability where the message is that’s bad” doesn’t work if you never actually delve into *why-8 that’s bad.

Because the end goal should always be for consequences to finally catch up with them.

But that never happens.

[orchid kettle]

I also feel like Chief going rogue or having to question his allegiance is just some inevitable bit of "story debt" Halo has accumulated ever since it was decided that the UNSC was morally questionable enough to make Spartans in the first place, along with some other atrocities like Far Isle

[stoic hamlet]

Cortana doesn’t really count, as it would have happened anyways.

[orchid kettle]

Like you either accept that Chief is not a wholly heroic figure or you have to finally do something about all that

[empty bloom]

Broadly gestures at Kratos

[sleek vigil]

We had a similar portrayal. Don't need to imagine it.

[orchid kettle]

and they're real big on Chief just being a wholly heroic figure it seems

[ionic tiger]

Like I said, I like that it was brought up…but as we’ve established it’s like consequences have no effect on Chief.

[orchid kettle]

if not all the Spartans

[empty bloom]

Oh, no, it was worse than the show's war crime.

But they loooove alluding to Spartans being used to assassinate people.

[orchid kettle]

343's band aid solution it seems was to just lay all of the UNSC's crimes at ONI's feet

[obsidian thistle]

Note: Not everyone in the HP server think that

[orchid kettle]

but I always felt like that was cowardly

[empty bloom]

I didn't say that! I just remember standout conversations, lmao

And that was a weird one

[stoic hamlet]

They need to show it, IMO.

Show Blue Team doing it.

No illusions, no get out of jail free cards.

John getting an order, and obeying, like the good little indoctrinated soldier. He doesn’t have to like it, maybe he takes issue with the justifications given, but he needs to do it.

Either him, or another II. No half measures.

[obsidian thistle]

Oh just clearing the air lol. 🙂

[sleek vigil]

You always watching, huh?

[obsidian thistle]

This is my home away from home

[stoic hamlet]

Alternatively have other UNSC characters with other opinions on the Spartans that aren’t worshipping the ground they walk on.

An easy one would be a war-era UNICOM officer.

[obsidian thistle]

😉

[ionic tiger]

Yeah, ONI being cartooishly evil at times is one of my least favorite things 343 has done. I miss where you'd have a character like Elias Haverson shoot an Engineer and rationally explain WHY he did it. Yet still treats the creature with respect.

[empty bloom]

Write a short story from the perspective of a spaced dockworker who got killed on one of the first Spartan ops.

[orchid kettle]

Back in TFOR, I feel like Nylund wanted you to be a little unnerved by how Keyes is well aware of what happened to Chief and the Spartans-- and does not seem to have an ounce of regret. Even Halsey questions herself a bit.

[spare kite]

You would think that some random marine or soldier would feel some sort of disdain for Spartans getting all of the praise. Odst's already hold some lvl of that disdain, but we dont really get any from normal marines and soldiers.

[empty bloom]

Honestly Halo needs to explore a lot of the unsavory topics they refuse to touch.

[empty bloom]

Resentment from someone who had a friend die on the Ark when Chief gets all the credit for everything that happened there

[spare kite]

exactly

[empty bloom]

(Reminder that resentment is not a rational emotion, but it is a justifiable one)

[ionic tiger]

You can imagine the whiplash I got when you go from Hood vehemently defending Halsey and the Spartans from Ackerson to being totally in line with Parangosky to punish Halsey for her crimes.

[stoic hamlet]

Humans aren’t rational though

[empty bloom]

Yeh

People like to assume story characters are, because reality is unrealistic.

[sleek vigil]

We can try to be.

[empty bloom]

Like, Halsey? Profoundly irrational.

[sleek vigil]

To some extent

Well, rationally irrational?

[empty bloom]

There's a reason her reaction to IVs is so silly to me when it's taken as gospel. Like, her entire response to Spartan IIIs exists as it does for a reason.

[ionic tiger]

I chalk that more up to character assassination tbh. She was mad about learning they existed, but became almost attached the moment she meets them in Ghosts of Onyx. Only for her to be super pissed about them in Glasslands and then the IVs after that.

Like, YOU were hoping to build towards that!

[empty bloom]

I don't take it as that simply because she seems the type to unconsciously glory hound.

She's not mad because it happened, she's mad because she didn't have her hand in it up to the elbow.

[ionic tiger]

I don't know if its about getting glory so much as being a major control freak.

[sleek vigil]

Of course.

[sleek vigil]

Both.

[empty bloom]

Distinction without a difference in how I meant it, really.

[sleek vigil]

She constantly takes pride in stating 'her work'.

[ionic tiger]

I'd have to go back, but I feel thats a way more recent thing than it was in the Nylund days.

[empty bloom]

And like any good insanely prideful person, when countered with an example of someone she'd have chosen as a hypothetical next Spartan gen, she makes a mental exception of "Well, you'd have been fine, but the rest are still awful"

[orchid kettle]

Mendez in TFOR: "So the Spartans killed an instructor during a hand to hand sparring match today."

Halsey: "Oh, so they're stronger than we expected?"

Mendez: "Haha hell yeah!"

Mendez in Glasslands:

"You know you never realize how bad the sewers smell until you're out of them."

[sleek vigil]

It'd say it's been like that since Reach.

[orchid kettle]

Mendez, my guy, you were training war orphans like a week ago

[empty bloom]

Mendez really should've been a nasty piece of work unapolagetically, tbh.

[ionic tiger]

And giving them super strength and schizophrenia.

[empty bloom]

Like, straight up a total hate sink.

[stoic hamlet]

With another company about to arrive, at that.

[empty bloom]

Completely unrepentant, and angry that his rightous manly training was being doubted.

Someone so obscenely terrible that Gaz(?)'s crisis of faith should've been less about icing Halsey and more struggling to decide which was more deserving.

Like, this is a guy who managed to find and fund and maintain a network of people A-ok with beating the daylights out of children.

[stoic hamlet]

It would have been more interesting if Vaz on the surface agreed with Mendez… but then realized what that meant.

[ionic tiger]

Vaz still pisses me off.

[empty bloom]

Ah, was it Vaz? I got it backwards.

[sleek vigil]

I find it bizzare that almost no hate gets directed towards Mendez. Yeah.

[orchid kettle]

Mendez is such a strangely handled character that I legitimately don't know if he's real in HtT

like did he change his mind again or was that yet another paid actor

[empty bloom]

I know entirely too many characters who have names that rhyme with Gaz, Vaz, Baz, Bruz, et cetera

[ionic tiger]

Actually, maybe it was Mal? I don't know. Mal seemed to at least entertain the idea that the Spartans made sense, but then just became another Vaz by the end of it all.

[stoic hamlet]

I don’t think he is. But I genuinely don’t know what they want to do with him.

[ionic tiger]

The fact we haven't seen this team agains hould tell you something.

[orchid kettle]

Does he have time to do an interview for HtT and also be at the JOZ for Legacy of Onyx?

[stoic hamlet]

With Slipspace plotspace, anything’s possible!

[orchid kettle]

with a dash of extra slippy space

[sleek vigil]

sloppy

[ionic tiger]

But guys ONI has to recolonize Sanghelios!

[empty bloom]

Kind of a case of too many cooks and, honestly, problably spotty record keeping.

[sleek vigil]

I think 2 books per year is fine, but I'd be okay with one per year if they'd really focus on quality and consistency.

[orchid kettle]

Im of the mind that most halo books would benefit from being shortened to novellas

[sleek vigil]

Yeah, what happened to short story collections?

Some Kelly Gay books are novellas.

[empty bloom]

Or maybe have less books written by different authors that share characters.

[sleek vigil]

That too.

[orchid kettle]

Rion Forge I think could have all been one full sized novel if it didn't become a Guilty Spark vehicle halfway through

[sleek vigil]

I think some Dennig's books could be novellas. Like, so much description, many of them are filled with this.

[orchid kettle]

There's several Denning books that follow more or less the same format

Characters arrive on some hostile wasteland of a planet, their goal is to walk from point a to point b

they come across the natives of said planet and they arrive at point b

and that's kinda it, there's not much of a twist beyond the initial "surprise" of there being natives

be it the pioneers from SoR, the Castaways, the Covenant survivors

[sleek vigil]

I started reading Silent Storm. So little, but so much words.

[orchid kettle]

Silent Storm tries to be a lot more like the original novels, with like a galaxy-hopping adventure to unravel some plot

[sleek vigil]

Yea, I am summerising it for Halopedia.

[orchid kettle]

some may argue it tries a lil too hard, what with the whole thing about the innies having a mole aboard a UNSC stealth vessel and wanting to sell Earth's location

like, that just IS the Cole Protocol

[sleek vigil]

Reading Renegades and Silent Storm at the same time.

[orchid kettle]

but bigger I guess because everybody on the prowler is a mole

[sleek vigil]

I am enjoying Renegades more

[ionic tiger]

I like the Rion/Spark novels a lot. I also felt like Epitaph and Rubicon Protocol were about right.

I'm also a wierdo who has Primordium as like one of my top 5, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

[orchid kettle]

I just kinda wish we didn't end up losing the plot thread about there being an ONI plant on the Ace or Rion and the gang being pursued by that prowler crew

including an Apollo Spartan Rion was clearly vibing with

[sleek vigil]

Nothing's wrong with that. I love Greg Bear's trilogy.

[ionic tiger]

People give it a lot of grief for being nothing but "walking" but it reminded me a lot of old school sci from the likes of Clarke or Asimov where characters do just kinda explore and talk.

[orchid kettle]

I would generally say I tend to enjoy Kelly Gay's works the most out of all the modern Halo authors

[sleek vigil]

Some people can't seem to differentiate an actually meandering writing compared an intentionally dialogue driven one.

[orchid kettle]

She has a greater focus on a character's emotions I find

[sleek vigil]

Honestly, I'd read a much longer book written by her.

out of all the Halo authors.

[orchid kettle]

Other authors may feel more well versed in like military lingo and all that, but I do think the characters are ultimately what matter in a story

[empty bloom]

I'm biased but I like Rubicon Protocol the most.

[orchid kettle]

Im very interested to see how she handles Chief in the next upcoming novel

[empty bloom]

Oh god. There's another Chief-centric book?

[orchid kettle]

Because Denning "made sense" in terms of like, somebody who could capture how mission-focused Chief is

[empty bloom]

I'm tired, boss.

[orchid kettle]

but a big criticism I have about the Blue Team novels is that I never feel like I come away from them with a greater understanding of Blue Team

except maybe Silent Storm just because I do think it has this stronger idea of Chief being yet unproven and he needs his mom to speak up for him at meetings

[ionic tiger]

Never really cared for the big push of 343's "A Master Chief Story" line. It just doesn't feel organic to me.

[orchid kettle]

They can feel like stories that just so happen to feature Blue Team rather than be about Blue Team

you could pick any combination of four Spartan-IIs and it'd probably be the same book

Like as much as I dislike the kilo-5 trilogy, the idea that Mortal Dictata features Naomi meeting her estranged father has always sounded like a strong elevator pitch to me

Like Homecoming if it was more than Daisy just being mad there was a clone

[ionic tiger]

I'd always thought the idea of one of the flash clones somehow beating the odds and surviving could be interesting, especially with where they end up in life.

[hardy swan]

I don’t think that’s possible

[sour raven]

[radiant rock]

Chloe might throw a wrench into that

[unique rune]

Considering they’ve “rehabilitated” so many of the supposedly-dead S-II candidates I feel like there’s nothing really stopping them from writing in an S-II flash clone that happened to get lucky(?) and survive to adulthood

[real kayak]

Tbh wouldn't be surprised if they brought back Noble Six

[unique rune]

I mean he’s explicitly dead for reasons unrelated to the augmentation process so that’s almost certainly not happening

[strange pumice]

Nah, he is hiding in cave

[ionic tiger]

Yeah, it’d have to be a freak upon a freak of a freak chance.

[empty bloom]

Y'know, this is kind of a random thought, but considering Steven Universe gems are effectively hardlight, I wonder if they have the same texture as Halo's hardlight.

Or at least the same properties overall.

[versed salmon]

How do you type with spoilers in chat? I’ve a question about Halo: Oblivion

I’m testing test ~test~

|test|

||test||

Halo: Outcasts Spoilers

In Halo: Outcasts, it’s revealed that there are ||2 surviving Precursors|| on Netherop. Which means during ||The Forerunner-Flood War||, they sat and watched as ||Living Time was imbalanced. Do they not care?||

[hardy swan]

It’s revealed

[mint cave]

I just had a thought about halo the flood and first strike.

So... Master chief's suit was punctured by the infection form in halo the flood when he was on the autumn. Then, he escaped and he finds the cryo pods. Which he...needs to go into space to do. How did his suit fix the hole in his neck seal?

[ionic violet]

Nanobots or something

[stoic hamlet]

The Longsword almost certainly has a sealant kit on board.