lore-and-universe

[rocky vector]

But didn't the high lord San shyuun say that they were helping? I understand the rest of the banished didn't know but Severan knew. He quotes saying that while he doesn't trust Sali Nyon he trust Nestro. So I understand Severan realized that Nestro tricked him. But why was he surprised? He of all people knew they were working together. So why was he surprised they showed up didn't make sense to me

Ohh ok. I didn't remember that he wasn't suppose to be there. Got it thanks

[stoic hamlet]

I don't have the book with me, but I'm 99% sure that's said verbatim.

[karmic gulch]

I love and hate the end of halo reach at the same time

RIP Noble 6 🫡

[karmic gulch]

Halo encyclopedia?

[stoic hamlet]

Empty throne.

[karmic gulch]

Oh

[stoic hamlet]

I’m not at home atm so I can’t check specific passages.

[karmic gulch]

Is it good? haven't read it.

[stoic hamlet]

It’s… good but not great. I have some major issues, but it’s a good 6-7/10, IMO. Better than average, not amazing.

[karmic gulch]

alr

[rocky vector]

Yeah I agree, I'd say a solid 7/10 - 8/10 for me for Empty Throne. It's good. Just not great

[empty bloom]

My favorite part of Reach is the end

So I can go play something I actually like instead of trash

:>

[karmic gulch]

Oh nah 😅

[wispy pewter]

certified hater

[pastel quail]

oh wow you really are an idiot

calling reach trash is wild

[empty bloom]

Typical projecting Reach fan.

[pastel quail]

oh jesus

[empty bloom]

Next you'll tell me you projected a third dimension onto those cutouts people call Noble Team lmao

[pastel quail]

I bet you like the Halo TV show

[empty bloom]

I bet you think Emile's a badass.

[spark pivot]

oh lord, he's having a stroke over someone having a differing opinion, someone call an ambulance

[empty bloom]

Instead of a total loser who failed every mission he was given in Reach.

[spark pivot]

he looks like one, he died in that way, but he really didn't have any cool moments besides that to be completely honest

[empty bloom]

He looks like he shops at Hot Topic.

[pastel quail]

what?

I think I'm losing braincells

[spark pivot]

you had any to begin with?

[pastel quail]

lol

you sound like a middle schooler

god this conversation is stupid

[spark pivot]

nah, middle schoolers would be more savage than I am

[empty bloom]

The constant's your involvement. Starting to think the issue's in your chair.

Or did they stop teaching basic math?

[spark pivot]

tbf basic math isn't taught well anymore

[empty bloom]

Neither is spelling

[spark pivot]

no that's just me lol

learning 5 different languages is screwing with my head XD

[pastel quail]

This server is filled with people whose opinions suck

holy moly

[spark pivot]

yeah, I'm looking at one of them

[pastel quail]

Where is the normal Halo server

[spark pivot]

if your only repeatable opinion is that someone else's opinion sucks, than you're gonna have issues lol

[pastel quail]

calling Reach trash is absolutely insane

[empty bloom]

I'm sure you'll find your people on TikTok.

[spark pivot]

give it 10 hours to get to 9am EST

[pastel quail]

I guess it's true what all the youtubers say about the modern halo community

[spark pivot]

being completely honest, reach would've been better as a call of duty campaign

[pastel quail]

Reach was goated

[empty bloom]

Actually listening to a Youtuber's opinion like it matters

[spark pivot]

I forgot people who do this exist still

[pastel quail]

"Modern Gaming"

[empty bloom]

I don't. I live in the perpetual torment of people so uncritical of the world they live in that they literally cannot comprehend someone who has a different mindset from them.

This is my Sisyphean hell.

[pastel quail]

I can comprehend it. I can comprehend that you two have bad opinions and like games that have generally been recieved poorly

it is possible to have bad opinions

[spark pivot]

fair, I do, I just don't let the annoying people get to me, it amuses me seeing then wind themselves up more because they can't accept that people have different opinions and that's okay

[empty bloom]

If you actually could comprehend it, you wouldn't say this.

[spark pivot]

yeah, not about a video game buddy

[empty bloom]

Because that's not even slightly how that works.

[pastel quail]

umm that isn't true, you can definitely have a bad opinion about a video game

what is wrong with you two?

[empty bloom]

We haven't received blunt force trauma to the cortex, apparently.

[pastel quail]

if you love microtransactions, that's a bad opinion

[empty bloom]

So you love map packs?

[spark pivot]

you don't like vending machines irl?

[empty bloom]

Imagine wanting to pay for maps instead of getting them for free with a new update

Damn I guess I'm just old enough to remember when the only cosmetics you got were colors.

[pastel quail]

if you like the fact that you have to pay for the color blue in a video game, that's a bad opinion

[spark pivot]

you literally dont

just choose a different blue lol

very simple

[pastel quail]

holy crap

[empty bloom]

You also start out with 3 shades of blue.

[spark pivot]

also why are we yapping about this in #lore-and-universe

[empty bloom]

Because the low-skill effort to insult people got dragged here by a ping.

[spark pivot]

better question is what happened to that H5 map that looks dead in halo infinite

[empty bloom]

I have no idea what map you are talking about.

[spark pivot]

infinites remake of plaza

I forgot the name

[empty bloom]

Well, it's forged and made in a different theme, so.

[spark pivot]

the whitewashed to hell map

[empty bloom]

That's... Kinda it.

[latent junco]

Solitude

[spark pivot]

ik i'm just making a sad attempt to re-align the convo with the channel purpose

[empty bloom]

I really hate that remake.

[karmic gulch]

He is.

[spark pivot]

yeah, I don't mind it as much as I used it, but it was still way better in H5 than it is in infinite

[empty bloom]

He's a bog standard IIIb with an unearned superiority complex and unresolved daddy issues.

[spark pivot]

I don't remember him having a superiority complex lol

[empty bloom]

"But he was a headhunter!"

Yeah, so is every III OC anyone ever makes.

[spark pivot]

I remember him being edgy as heck, but that's about it

[empty bloom]

Having an unearned superiority complex comes free with being an edgelord.

[spark pivot]

he's just your average hot-headed soldier boy with a cool knife and paintjob

don't remember him acting like that, the one who acted like that more was kat tbh ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[empty bloom]

He also likely doesn't actually have daddy issues, more actual legitimate trauma, I'm just being hyperbolic.

[spark pivot]

I mean he did lose his brother and parents to the covenant so I wouldn't doubt it

[empty bloom]

End of the day he's a III who is maladjusted because shocker, making supersoldiers from orphaned kids is a stupid idea.

And a trite, overtread concept that is just a cookie cutter rendition of the late 1aughts skull-faced operator bro trope that's been a signature visage of the loser who thinks that all they need to win more wars is commit war crimes even harder instead of actually doing their damn job.

[spark pivot]

sometimes it works

just not the overwhelming majority of the time

[empty bloom]

Yeah, I'm sure Imperial Japan's ultimate victory will happen any day now.

[unique rune]

no you don’t get it something something goes down with the ship lone wolf stuff irony deep and complex characters

[orchid kettle]

my OC is a headhunter but in the corporate business sense.

[versed helm]

I love how this other fellow uses the term “bad opinion”, which in it of itself is contradictory because the whole point of opinions is that they are subjective to you and you alone. It’s a bad opinion in their (irrelevant) view, but it’s not a bad opinion universally.

The only time a bad opinion exists is when it is morally and culturally unacceptable and gets innocent people un-alived.

[stoic hamlet]

A bad opinion is letting tik-tok and other platforms’ censorship dictate your speech. We’re all adults here… or at least, should be mature enough to use the proper terms for things. You can say .”killed”

[versed helm]

I don’t know the language extent on the Halo Disc, so I play it safe.

[stoic hamlet]

That’s fair. It’s just depressing we’ve come to that point. People should be able to police something like language themselves. “Read the room” and all that.

[versed helm]

Oh definitely

[stoic hamlet]

But yeah, I agree with your overall broader post.

[empty bloom]

You can deconstruct an opinion and explain what makes it ill-reasoned, but dismissing it as a 'bad opinion' is kind of why we're stuck in a social crap pit as EtCan mentions.

[steel aurora]

this is some crazy halo lore

[empty bloom]

I can thoroughly explain why I don't like Reach, from a poorly set foundational premise to a half-cocked attempt at establishing an alternative narrative via poorly explored archtypes rather than actual characters.

[empty bloom]

Eh, I'd say it's necessary to objectively and subjectively discuss the qualitative essence of a work of fiction; To establish a baseline requirement of what a mind needs to get it.

[steel aurora]

I like your "halo 5 is a return to classic form" take more

[empty bloom]

That one never fails to get someone mad lmao

I love it

[steel aurora]

I thoroughly enjoy that one

[versed helm]

You should say “what may make it” rather than “what makes it”. All of this is subjective and isn’t exactly based on fact.

[versed helm]

Reach was decent imo, just weird seeing Spartan protags dropping like flies

[empty bloom]

Opinions that are interpretations of clearly stated concepts that are flagrantly incorrect or correct are inherently flawed. Either way, flaws are flaws and failures in procedural reasoning are fundamentally flaws regardless of validity of a claim.

[versed helm]

True, but I speak in the context of a video game

Slavery, inherently bad. Video game plot line, not inherently bad.

[empty bloom]

If you say X is X because you like it, and I say X is X, when X is objectively X due to Z and A, your interpretation still has the flaw of subjective coloring.

Of course, with discussing Reach this more complex, and actually just outright opinionated. Objectively the story has flaws, subjectively these flaws matter.

But oftentimes people take the objective relative failings as objective narrative successes.

[orchid kettle]

Personally I feel like few things are truly objective when it comes to stories or art in general

[empty bloom]

All this to say, I like saying lots of words.

[stoic hamlet]

Is it though? The original books killed Spartans like they were nothing.

By the end of The Fall of Reach, as far as we know at the time, there are only 4 II’s left out of 75.

By the end of Ghosts of Onyx, over 600 Spartans are dead.

The idea that Spartans don’t take casualties or get wounded is a “new one”, really.

[versed helm]

Depends on what you think a “flaw” is, to be fair

[versed helm]

Yea, but we’ve been conditioned with Mr. John Halo, the greatest (most renowned and accomplished) Spartan of all time who literally has lore plot-armor. I completely acknowledge many Spartans have fallen, and they aren’t invincible, but MC is just different

[orchid kettle]

Yeah, to quantify "mistakes" you need to define what the "goal" is which is naturally something that's going to be colored by your own interpretation

And to the people who are of the mind that there is no greater authority on what a work "means" or what it was trying to mean beyond the reader themself, this means you can't even really point to something like "Well the author said he wanted you to feel X but I felt Y!"

Since the counter argument is "Well if the reader, with no expectation of feeling X, felt Y and considered that a positive experience, is that still a mistake?"

[versed helm]

I agree

[orchid kettle]

that being said-- I think Reach's story is pretty not great as well lol

[stoic hamlet]

I think the issue is also how Blue Team has changed.

Originally Blue Team were just the Spartans who had survived, they were a composite team made post fall of reach because that was all that was left.

Retroactively they’ve been made this static mainstay, and that takes away from what they were originally.

[orchid kettle]

I tend to value stories with more expressive characters and the emotional journeys they undergo, with the "plot" serving more as a vehicle to explore these people

and I don't think Reach with Noble Team really satisfies that.

[stoic hamlet]

It wasn’t as character focused or as long as it should have been.

There weren’t enough moments actually afforded to the team, to showcase their vulnerabilities.

Jorge - the only one who actually cared about Reach as more than a strategic asset - dying first didn’t help.

[orchid kettle]

Reach's strength I think is more so in the vibes, just everything that goes into the presentation of a burning city being invaded by aliens

but if you want to know any of those people fighting for their lives, that's an entirely different matter

[unique rune]

I always thought Reach kinda does a bad job of doing the whole "setting-driven" thing that I've seen people claim it does

With the exception of like, Exodus, I find myself struggling to care about Reach being invaded. Probably doesn't help that no one seems to really have their heart in it except Jorge.

[orchid kettle]

Well Im kind of the mind that you'd care about the setting if you cared about the people that lived in it

I just meant like, pretty backdrops and nice music.

Even if said pretty backdrops don't actually sell the idea of Reach being the UNSC's fortress world or whatever

[unique rune]

Oh yeah the presentation is nice
It's pretty much like the one good thing that Bungie is consistently good at

Though there are points where I feel like they could've made it look less overcast and drab in the first half of the game

[ionic tiger]

Gotta say though, the section of Exodus where you overhear the panic happening on the tarmac with those civilian evac transports gets me every time. Outside of the ship being shot down, it's all conveyed in dialouge and its really effective.

[karmic gulch]

The only two deaths that got me in reach were Jorge and 6.

[wispy pewter]

Halo 5 bad because you play as Locke!!

[karmic gulch]

Are the gamma company like the odd ones out?

[cerulean topaz]

And then the first thing I see is Jorge death, and I'm like "thank god for Tenrai", followed by "oh god I hope Flood Jorge isn't cannon"

[karmic gulch]

lol

True

How many beta Spartan iiis are there left? Aren’t there like 2 or something?

[stoic hamlet]

#1164394180676681798 message

carrying on from here ^^^

Basically, 343 wants to just focus on one, maybe two teams, and they want just those teams. We know, for example, Denning wanted to include all 32 augmented and active Spartans in Silent Storm, but 343 told him no, and then, in the sequel, Oblivion, only the 4 members of Blue Team were present, the 8 others from Silent Storm were gone.

Gamma, from Ghosts of Onyx, were trained and organized very specifically into 5 man teams, they don’t operate independently of one another. They were trained to fight as a larger, company level force for important, high risk engagements. Teamwork and comradely were the cornerstones of their doctrine.

So if you want to include Gamma, you have to basically include all of them, or else questions start to appear, like, for example, “where are the rest of them”, why is X, Y, Z deployed without their team?” Etc

[karmic gulch]

Oh

[stoic hamlet]

When you make a Gamma, you kinda need to make 5, lol.

[karmic gulch]

So can I be gamma and have my Spartans story based around 5?

[stoic hamlet]

Or, if they don’t have those 4 other teammates, you need to explain where they are and why they’re not present.

[karmic gulch]

Oh ok

I mean I already have 2 other team members

What even are the smoothers? Like are they pills or what?

[orchid kettle]

Blue Team honestly as a group just don't have a strong enough dynamic to warrant all the focus

[stoic hamlet]

They’re a cocktail of multiple drugs. Administered via subcantanous implants or hypodermic needles.

They counteract the Gamma’s aggression and paranoia.

Keep them focused.

[orchid kettle]

I feel like even with Black Team in Blunt Instruments, you could point towards like, one member being more idealistic and willing to trust Hopalong, another being pessimistic and figuring it's a trap, and the leader somewhere in between

[karmic gulch]

So their an injection?

[stoic hamlet]

Yes,

[orchid kettle]

but I feel like Blue Team in that situation would either just kill Hopalong on sight, or just go along with whatever Chief personally thinks is best because the other characters really don't have any agency of their own

[karmic gulch]

Ok

[cerulean topaz]

Might be a bit headcanonish, but I imagine the anti-psychotic chems can be worked around if their armor has the same modification as the MP-47/A medic power armor from Fallout 3

Seems relevant with the dumb AI in Infinite being a thing that could likely manage it for the S3's

[stoic hamlet]

We know WAR MASTER causes the same effect, and it’s one of the most popular armours chosen by Spartans, apparently, so evidently it’s not a big deal to the UNSC.

[karmic gulch]

does gen 3 SPI armor exist?

[stoic hamlet]

Mirage is SPI upgraded to MJOLNIR technical and defensive spec, essentially. It’s the successor program.

[cerulean topaz]

Its basically SPI jurry-rigged to meet the bare minimum of Mjolnir requirements, with attachments that are themselves jurry-rigged field mods to boost its performance even closer.

[obsidian thistle]

Plus

GEN3 is more or less standards now

Sure stuff made by the usual suspects are likely to be directly GEN3... BUT

To quote TAS/PATTON...

No military research project is an island, even those used by Spartans.

So GEN3 may be the current standard

BUT branches mix into others.

And often those go into their own directions

GEN3 Standards =/= GEN3 also in particular also though its semantics in regular discussion.

MIRAGE IIC armor builds on the foundation of the GEN1 Mirage and Semi-Powered Infiltration (SPI) armor program to create low cost, multi-role powered assault armor that meets baseline GEN3 Mjolnir standards.

MIRAGE IIC helmets compromise the full range of GEN3 capabilities to significantly reduce cost, complexity, and operation augmentation requirements compared to the Mark VII baseline.

Mirage IIC shows this perfectly

It "meets" and "compromises" those standards.

Is it GEN3? I'd disagree

Its an island that grew off Mjolnir, its GEN3 island, and SPI.

With this in mind, Project YGGDRASIL and updates to the ODST BDU could be viewed as some of the earliest versions of stuff moving off the MJOLNIR island into their own areas.

No one is saying YGGDRASIL stuff is GEN1, 2, or 3.

Though it may utilise upgrades from those advancements.

[obsidian thistle]

Ultimately speaking

I am all for HS moving beyond Generations for Mjolnir

[lavish frigate]

Is there any lore explanation for how the enemies like the elites store their weapons? On the back? Or what?

[carmine sleet]

https://tenor.com/view/the-luck-charm-magnets-surprise-gif-15738692

[lavish frigate]

I buy it

[carmine sleet]

No like, that's what they have to keep their weapons holstered

[lavish frigate]

oh okay

[orchid kettle]

I feel like in the case of the Covenant you could probably explain it as some wacky localized stasis field or whatever

[karmic gulch]

Alr

[empty bloom]

Optimized shield layer sections and usually just carrying them in their hands?

Sangheili weaponry is generally one-handed and light by their standards-practically an entire army using primarily machine pistols-so I feel like they'd rarely ever holster them in the field.

[karmic gulch]

do spartan iiis wear mk vii?

or would it be better to have them in mk V B?

[carmine sleet]

The armour they wear isn't specific to just one generation

[karmic gulch]

alr so it doesnt matter?

[carmine sleet]

Like, a Spartan III can wear Mark VII. Just allot never got to on account of them dying before they got anything better than SPI

[karmic gulch]

yeah

because i want my fire team to have different armour cores, would that be lore accurate?

[unique rune]

I mean it wouldn’t be impossible but it probably wouldn’t be very likely

[karmic gulch]

why?

[unique rune]

Not very practical

[karmic gulch]

wouldnt it be good to have an armor core thats suited for their role in the fireteam?

[unique rune]

You don’t need different cores for different specializations

[karmic gulch]

ok so what armor core should I use then?

its set in current halo

[orchid kettle]

Honestly you can think of a Spartan's armor core being more reflective of their situation than their role

[karmic gulch]

wdym?

[strange pumice]

Mark VII, Mark V B, Mark IV, Rakshasa and Mirage IIC they lore accurate
Others, like Japan samurai style(forgot how it is called), eagle strike and Chimera, iirc they are not canon, I possibly wrong about this trio

[orchid kettle]

UNSC's funds are tight? Enjoy Mirage, the budget MJOLNIR. Stuck behind enemy lines for years without any way to get new armor parts in case something breaks? Take Rakshasa, can't break if its just a cloth suit and some stolen slabs of titanium.

[karmic gulch]

yeah

[orchid kettle]

Mark V[b] I believe has also been stated to be a retrofit situation, implying the Unsc has to make the best of existing suits by upgrading them to GEN3 specifications if it can't craft enough Mark VII suits

[karmic gulch]

ohhh

ok

think ill have 1 mirage and the rest be vii then

[orchid kettle]

so really its just a matter of-- how much moolah are their bosses willing to spend on them

[karmic gulch]

ok

[stoic hamlet]

Not necessarily, it depends on what the typical missions are.

A Spartan in Rakshasa wouldn’t be able to fight alongside a Spartan in Mark VII, or a Spartan in Mirage wouldn’t be able to really fight alongside a Spartan in Mark V[B] the same way as they would be if they were all in Mirage or Rakshasa or V[B] or whatever.

If it’s a stealth mission, you basically don’t want any MJOLNIR anywhere near it. You want everyone in Mirage, or maybe Rakshasa.

[karmic gulch]

Oh ok

[stoic hamlet]

For example, if a single Spartan was equipped with MJOLNIR for the typical Spartan III operation, the entire mission would fail immediately because they’d give away everyone else.

[tawdry turtle]

How do you know so much about the lore?

[stoic hamlet]

I’ve been reading it and cataloguing since 2004, give or take.

It’s a hobby of mine.

[tawdry turtle]

Damn dude, that’s really cool

[stoic hamlet]

It’s just stuff you pick up when you read the books. Peruse the encyclopedias, etc.

Cross-reference stuff in the games, and all that.

Everyone’s got their niches.

[tawdry turtle]

You seem really cool!! Wanna be friends or smth? :3

[karmic gulch]

Wow

[stoic hamlet]

That is, to clarify, I didn’t really start cataloguing the lore stuff until around 2011 or so, but I’ve collected all the books and such starting around ‘04.

[karmic gulch]

Is it possible for the iiis to have close friendships?

Specifically gamma company

Only reason I ask if idk if the augments did something that doesn’t let them

[empty bloom]

No.

[karmic gulch]

So they can?

[hardy swan]

Tom and Lucy be like

They might even be secretly together

[karmic gulch]

Ohhhh that’s right I forgot about them

[ionic tiger]

Ash, Mark, and Olivia seemed fairly chummy. As were Jonah and Roland.

If anything their shared trauma and training probably solidified a lot of bonds that Kurt was banking on for them to be successful.

[karmic gulch]

ok

[stoic hamlet]

The III’s whole thing was teamwork and comradely bonds.

At least among each other.

But they’re otherwise noted for their absolute loyalty to the UNSC, and willingness to sacrifice.

[karmic gulch]

Alr

Also what company was chief in?

[hardy swan]

Bad Company

[unique rune]

The Spartan-IIs weren't organized into companies the way that the -IIIs were

It was only ever the one class of 75 candidates

[karmic gulch]

oh

[karmic gulch]

what would happen if a gamma company spartan iii didnt take their smoothers?

[orchid kettle]

At first they'd experience minor withdrawal symptoms like irritability or some manner of tick they have difficulty controlling

Throughout Divine Wind, Veta fears that if the Gammas don't get their smoothies in time, they may eventually degrade to the point where they're a threat to friend and foe alike.

[karmic gulch]

oh ok

not far off from what i thought

[stoic hamlet]

They would slowly (over the course of around 14-16 hours) become paranoid and aggressive.

Contrary to what most people say (because most people don’t actually read the books and just get their info second or third hand) they wouldn’t lash out at things unless their paranoia is triggered, nor would they immediately look to lethal options.

For example, in Last Light, Mark-G313 of Team Saber put a combat knife to a Marine’s throat… but he did this because he couldn’t identify the marine, and the team had dealt with human infiltrators working with enemy forces.

But in Divine Wind, despite being off their smoothers for longer, when they encountered UNSC forces the team didn’t distrust them, because there was no perceived infiltration threat

[karmic gulch]

ok

[orchid kettle]

It's all kinda hypothetical though since I don't think we know of any instance where a Gamma has gone fully out of control, like what is described when somebody takes a rumbledrug

[stoic hamlet]

^^^

[karmic gulch]

yeah

[stoic hamlet]

We’ve never seen an instance like that, and when they get their smoother they’re basically back to 100% nigh on immediately.

But yeah, they could be paranoid or irritable in a bunch of different ways.

Second guessing themselves, overthinking things, nervous ticks, etc.

[karmic gulch]

yeah

thank you

another thing

how does the neural lase not kill the spartan iis for example since its in their brain?

[unique rune]

Human medical science is just built different in Halo’s 26th century
Neural implants are standard for pretty much all UNSC personnel, Spartans just have a more advanced model

They never really explain why they aren’t lethal, they just… aren’t, presumably owing to centuries of scientific advances

[karmic gulch]

Oh ok

[stoic hamlet]

There’s artificial stuff that can be attached to/that interfaces with the brain in some capacity even today, the neural lace is just more advanced.

[karmic gulch]

Yeah

Makes sense

[spice crystal]

I forgot what the spine brace they have is. Like lasky on h4

[undone shale]

Just wondering if anyone could answer this, does rampancy effect machines like Guilty spark and Mendicant bias and what are the parameters? I've been thinking of it alot and given how spark was created I was wondering how it works since rampancy as humanity knows it effects AI in 7 years but wasn't sure if that's universal for AI or not.

[carmine sleet]

Spark and Mendicant were rampant, yes

Halopedia has a great page on Halo's Rampancy https://www.halopedia.org/Rampancy

It should be noted the concept of AI rampancy predates Halo, albeit in a different form as it was a major part of the original Marathon games

[orchid kettle]

In Marathon it was like very specifically this idea of an artificial intelligence becoming truly sentient, and viewing it's past servitude as a form of slavery, explaining its rage

But I dunno if you can really call Guilty Spark rampant given that he just is a human's essence who's been stuck in a lightbulb for 100,000 years

Though I think its worth mentioning in the original games that Guilty Spark seems to chill out a lot when Installation 04 is taken off the board, and only really goes nuts again when its replacement is revealed to him at the end of Halo 3

which always made me assume that Guilty Spark's programming as the Installation's keeper is what made him hostile

Like the Forerunners just messed up his "laws of robotics" or whatever and made him prioritize protecting his ring above all else, even helping the Reclaimers

[hardy swan]

Black Box based. Remained loyal till the end of his life

🥹

[empty bloom]

So fun fact, during brain surgery, the person being operated on is usually awake and actively doing something.

Because they need to be sure they aren't messing with your wiring.

[karmic gulch]

Huh

[empty bloom]

The human brain is actually extremely durable, and simultaneously very fragile.

[karmic gulch]

That… must be painful…

[empty bloom]

Not really. Anesthetics work wonders.

And the brain itself doesn't actually feel pain-it lacks the nerves to do so.

[karmic gulch]

Ohhhhh

[empty bloom]

You'd actually feel more pain from the cuts they make to access it than the scalpel cutting into it.

[karmic gulch]

Yeah

[empty bloom]

Humans can actually work with a lot of parts damaged or missing. You can lose one kidney, one lung, 2/3 of your liver, half your brain, and still function mostly normally.

[karmic gulch]

😨

[empty bloom]

Assuming, of course, this was medically done, and not all happening at once traumatically.

[karmic gulch]

Wait half your brain?

[empty bloom]

It's actually a surprisingly common last resort cure for epilepsy.

A hemispherectomy.

[karmic gulch]

😨

[stoic hamlet]

Can second-hand confirm.

When my dad was having brain surgery to help with his Parkinson’s, they had someone (a nurse, I think) in the room just to talk to him, I believe.

[karmic gulch]

Huh

[empty bloom]

People have played instruments, had conversations, etc. If it's something you don't need to move a lot to do, they'll talk to you during.

[karmic gulch]

Yeah

[empty bloom]

Most kids watched sesame street and cartoon network stuff. Me? I watched monsters inside me and various surgery shows.

It really explains a lot lmao

[karmic gulch]

Wow

[empty bloom]

Gotta get that innate curiosity.

[karmic gulch]

Yeah

[thorn spindle]

bet u can never guess what i watched as a kid

[unique rune]

spunchbop

[hardy swan]

SpongeBob

[topaz kite]

is Noble 6 still alive I thought I saw something about him not being dead or something.

[unique rune]

very dead

[obsidian thistle]

He be dead

Most confirmed dead character ever

[tropic forge]

He's passed on! This Spartan is no more! He has ceased to be! He's expired and gone to meet his maker! He's a stiff! Bereft of life, he rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed him to the ground he'd be pushing up the daisies! His metabolic processes are now history! He's kicked the bucket, He's shuffled off his mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleeding choir invisible!!

Very dead.

[obsidian thistle]

Its a fixed point in time.

[tropic forge]

There's a meme that Noble Six survived in a cave on Reach, but nothing at all to substantiate it.

[obsidian thistle]

The only way we'll see B312 is if we see them or something tied to them prior to their death.

If we ever play around Sabre pilots, we may even get a smidge of lore

But is B312 dead. Yes.

[topaz kite]

got it, I have to say his was probably one of if not the most badass death in the Halo.

[unique rune]

it sure was one of the deaths of all time

[empty bloom]

Dying because you were routed after deciding to hold what appears to be a checkpoint is certainly one of the decisions of all time.

[topaz kite]

he was a refreshing take on the spartan character, he wasn't a legend, and he wasnt immortal, he was just a Spartan doing his duty.

[carmine sleet]

Chief isn't immortal either

[stoic hamlet]

“There’s a difference between being the best, and the best known. All Spartans are capable.”

[empty bloom]

I forget. Does Halo use Spinward, Coreward, antispinward, and anticoreward for directions in terms of planar positioning for positioning in the milky way, or am I getting a wire crossed with Battletech again?

[versed helm]

I would like to tangent a bit, and say MC is recognized as the greatest Spartan throughout multiple guides and even by Halo studios outside of an in-verse view. However, their definition of greatest was clarified in Halo: Mythos as “most accomplished and renowned”, which takes a lot of skill, and definitely no shortage of luck, to accomplish.

[versed helm]

I wonder if he’ll actually die or just retire. His story will end eventually, how it will end is what’s very important.

[carmine sleet]

Either he dies fighting or he dies of old age

[maiden smelt]

😢

[carmine sleet]

The reaper's gonna come for him one day

[radiant rock]

On our show at some point, can't remember which one, we got asked that very question.

A general answer all four of us came to was he has to die in battle against impossible odds to accomplish something incredibly great in sacrifice and the game has to give us time to focus on it.

Specifically, in my thinking, I was imagining the battle raging on and it slowly fades to silence. All you can hear is a heartbeat as Chief fights. When he finally takes too many hits, he falls to the ground, and we hear the heartbeat slow down until it finally stops and a final breath rings out. The scene stays quiet and the camera stays centered on these final moments before cutting abruptly to black or slowly fading to white.

[versed helm]

Hopefully it’ll be when he’s out of his suit, living out his golden years in peace.

[empty bloom]

NGL, I think a torch-pass moment would actually be pretty neat.

Chief fighting alongside other Spartans, finally getting taken out-maybe saving another Spartan in the process, or Esparza, and having a death that takes a bit while his suit fights to keep him alive. Avenging Chief being the final major rallying cry for the survivors of Zeta Halo.

[carmine sleet]

I like the idea of him having sealed himself inside a room full of bad guys while ushering friendlies out, so nobody properly sees his final moments but his killer/killers

[empty bloom]

I was kinda thinking of it being a hybrid of Bill's death, Soap's death, and maybe a shade or three of Six's death.

I actually really don't like how HS had Horvath beg for Chief to reappear.

Like, I vehemently hate a lot of how they portrayed a lot of IV behaviors regarding IIs to almost seem more like wishful hero worship rather than proper respect.

Like, a Spartan shouldn't be begging for Chief to show up again. A IV should be galvanized that they'll do what they can, with or without Chief-if he's dead, the IVs will damn sure avenge him, and if he's alive they'll help him, but they shouldn't go "Oh Chief you're our only hope".

These people are professional supersoldiers who get bent out of shape when they can't save every non-Spartan friendly, they should understand the cost of a Spartan's life better than that. They should be vastly more independent than wishing an old war hero would come back.

[carmine sleet]

MW3 Soap's death or MW3 (2023) Soap's death? Also who's Bill? Because I've seen multiple characters with that name get killed in stuff

[strange pumice]

Bill maybe form Left 4 Dead

Where in the last chapter he sacrificed own life to ensure, that Francis, Zoe and Luis will have a peaceful life

[stoic hamlet]

I personally think him dying kind of “ignobly” would be interesting.

A simple death, kind of a forgettable death. Nothing special. John never wanted to be a hero or a legend or anything, he shuns it. I think giving him that kind of simple send off, on the field, but not particularly notable, would be a nice sort of way to finally let him get his wish to just be treated “like one of the men”.

I think that would also suit Atriox, as well.

[versed helm]

Hopefully, Halo doesn’t farm games for eternity. Master Chief has successfully fought almost every major enemy faction in the book and dealt a crippling blow in the process. Maybe like 1 or 2 more games for the Master Chief. Personally, I’d want him to stay alive after all he’s been through. Watching a cutscene of the MC, sort-of disappearing off the made and finding a home to live out his golden years, while finally getting a full face reveal, would be legendary in my eyes.

[carmine sleet]

I don't need to see his face

[versed helm]

Maybe you don’t, but I wanna. Most generational face reveal ever (Dream can eat his heart out).

[empty bloom]

Be careful what you wish for.

[versed helm]

What’s the worse that could happen? (I knowingly say this so life will go in the completely opposite direction than the one I want)

[stoic hamlet]

Technically we do know what he looks like, since around 2003, with The Flood’s description of him.

But yeah, I don’t think we need to see his face. It doesn’t add anything to the character. Lore wise his face wouldn’t be some big secret, though.

It’s just a face.

[dusk jetty]

There’s still the halo 4 legendary ending

You can construct a decent bit around that

[obsidian thistle]

Fun reminder this exists

https://www.halopedia.org/File:John-117_fighting_ODST_team.png

Helljumper was cool

Bungie and Microsoft likely had to sign off on it

Due to it being the first visual (not text) depiction of Johns face

Then a few years later

The Fall of Reach comics release

And give us a LOT of depictions

[fair hazel]

I want John to become the diplomat

[wispy pewter]

asking for help from the Spartan that saved humanity countless times

John Halo

[empty bloom]

It's goofy because it's a very disingenuous way of seeing these special forces supersoldiers act, which ironically is the opposite of what people said they wanted out of the IVs.

It's kind of infantile. Marines don't ask Chesty Puller to come back from the dead.

[wispy pewter]

I mean the IVs did a lot in that book, but still did not match up with THE Spartan

[hardy swan]

My comparison is that IVs are crayon eaters and IIs are Navy Seals

[wispy pewter]

eh...

[empty bloom]

Which is very wrong, but okay, whatever.

Also honestly, I'd trust the Crayon Eaters over the glory hounds and degenerates that comprise of the Navy Seals. If you're gonna have them be some special forces team at least have them be some actual professional unit like the SAS or JTF2 or JTAC.

[neat lava]

Amor

[karmic gulch]

They lowkey need an actual face reveal at the end that isn’t in the start of a show

But like only when they end the series, because that would probably answer our LAST question.

[hardy swan]

Would have said Delta but they are not Navy

[stoic hamlet]

There’s just too much hero worship of Chief, IMO. Every time I see it in universe it just feels so icky.

[orchid kettle]

It'd probably feel a bit more tolerable I think if bro stayed lost in space forever, and thus wasn't around to actually experience any of the worship directly

Or at least, most of it, since palace hotel is a thing

[thorn spindle]

i get humans seeing chief as a hero its a natural outlook

also a nice hint of propaganda for mil or spartan recruitment, until whatever they did with h5 idk cant even remember

[versed helm]

One of the key parts of his character is that he’s a symbol of HOPE. He’s the thing that Marines can look up to when all hope is lost, the thing that can keep them going.

I personally wouldn’t change anything about his character, I love him already as “humanity’s greatest hero”

[versed helm]

Well, that’s not fun. We all have childhood and even adulthood hero’s, he’s that special person for so many.

[stoic hamlet]

It’s thematically and narratively consistent, and puts a good bow on his story.

If he can’t float away in space, that’s IMO how he should go out.

[strange pumice]

That reminds me of the words of Eren Krüger from Attack on Titan
(Can I share it here?)

[hardy swan]

That’s why I don’t think it’s weird IVs look up to him. They were all marines or ODSTs once

[empty bloom]

It's not weird to look up to a hero. It's weird to worship him and beg for his help-it's infantile and pathetic.

You're a damn supersoldier and the last you heard, Chief got yeeted off the Infinity by boss monkey. Put on your big boy pants and keep going to work, Chief's dead for all intents and purposes.

[thorn spindle]

well that's harsh

[empty bloom]

Of course it's harsh.

It's why it bothers me that Horvath's last transmission is begging for Chief's help.

It's banal hero worship that is ultimately servile and against the spirit de corps of the Spartan branch, and it should not be considered good conduct just because fans think Chief's a damn god.

[unique rune]

the consequences of people being unable to handle Palmer's "I thought you'd be taller" joke

[thorn spindle]

he may be the closest to it, bc some space angels favor him. i thought all horvath said was if chief was out there, they need his help, did i miss the a crying begging audio log?

[unique rune]

To any UNSC personnel in range... This is Spartan Tomas Horvath, Fireteam Intrepid. And I appear to be... alone. I am heading up-spin, beyond the reach of the Banished to search for survivors. For my fireteam. I don't know what else to do. The silence on UNSC channels is not encouraging... but I will be listening. Watching. Surviving. Chief, if you can hear this... we need you. Now more than ever.
I feel like it is

kinda goofy

[thorn spindle]

chief is prob the only human that was given the upgrade to survive the composer thats pretty godlike far as humans go

[unique rune]

in hindsight it makes me miss how Majestic was written in Spartan Ops ngl

[empty bloom]

There's a balance to be struck and that balance was Osiris.

Acknowledge Chief's a war hero, acknowledge he's done more to save humanity than most, but also behave towards him like any rational member of a military should when he violates the code.

[stoic hamlet]

If 40K can have Imperial Guardsmen - who worship the Imperium’s Spartan Equivalent as literal angels - call out the Space Marines for getting all the credit, being rude arrogant pricks and screwing up their operations, Halo can have other super soldiers actually have the courage and confidence to rely on their own skills, rather than pray for a mythical hero figure.

As Trench says, it’s infantile.

[radiant rock]

https://tenor.com/view/roman-reigns-wwe-universal-champion-acknowledge-me-wwe-smack-down-gif-26765854

I have learned two things about this server today lmao

[empty bloom]

Something tells me I should be glad normal folks don't have embed perms.

https://tenor.com/view/epic-embed-fail-ryan-gosling-cereal-embed-failure-laugh-at-this-user-gif-20627924

[stoic hamlet]

The worst case of this is the Field Manual though, that claim that they changed the informal designation of an MCPO out of “respect” to John is absurd.

[radiant rock]

It was an "Acknowledge Me" gif from a dude in WWE. It was applicable to the convo.

[empty bloom]

You're pulling my leg.

[stoic hamlet]

I wish I was.

[empty bloom]

No way they did that.

Oh dear god they did.

That's...

Ugh. That is just vile.

[stoic hamlet]

It’s never come up (because we never see any other MCPO’s - I wonder why?) but yeah, it’s real.

[versed helm]

I mean, they did I’m pretty sure, which would arguably be worse than a claim.

[empty bloom]

That is so damn stupid.

Like, I'm actually a little annoyed lmao

[radiant rock]

"Top Chief"

[versed helm]

Don’t think I’ve heard that specifically

[empty bloom]

It's never come up in the games because, as Et said, Chief's the only E-9 Navy folk running around.

[stoic hamlet]

It’s a claim because it’s never actually come up in anything organically.

It’s just Thorne saying it as a footnote, but until it actually appears (which it never will because there will never be another Master Chief Petty Officer in the same room as John, or even acknowledged, likely (which is also absurd) it’s just the one mention.

[versed helm]

It is what it is. If this is what gives people hope, then lettem hope

[empty bloom]

No, it's freaking stupid. It's a damn rank, not a title.

As I said, it's utterly infantile.

It's bad enough that I can't even make a joke about how stupid I find it.

[stoic hamlet]

That goes beyond hope though.

It’s idolization.

[versed helm]

Oh, I honestly forgot that book had footnotes by Thorne. Yea, if it’s a footnote then no. I wonder who even wrote the main portion of it, considering it’s a compulsory read for new Spartans, apparently

[versed helm]

I mean, idolization can come from a place of hope. But I get your point. MC is already recognized by the UNSC as “inarguably the best Spartan”, changing MCPO in honor of him is overflowing the bucket at this point. I wonder where he puts all his medels

[radiant rock]

In all fairness, I've seen that as ONI's goal for awhile. Make "The Master Chief" look like this god of war so then you can do whatever you want with his story in the public eye.

It'd take a bit of adjustment to make it so that all Spartans are seen in the same way John is.

[versed helm]

But, what if I say “Wort Wort Wort” in response? Will you change your mind :>

[empty bloom]

Honestly, the fact people see winning at the Ark as mostly a "Just Chief" thing is actually pretty damn annoying too-because you have three entire ship's worth of human troops at least also fighting and dying in the process of the first 3 games.

[stoic hamlet]

That might be the intention, but it doesn’t really fit with the UNSC or ONI as a faction.

They’re not really the type to prop up single individuals like that. Every time we’ve seen it discussed (at least in the early days of the lore) the higher ups rail against it. They’re utilitarian pragmatists who don’t really go for that type of propaganda.

Or at least, they didn’t used to. Post H3 (speaking out of universe here) the idolization of John goes beyond recognizing him as an effective soldier.

[empty bloom]

They wouldn't, realistically, idolize Chief in the face of that level of death.

[versed helm]

Intresting discussion tbh

[empty bloom]

Not saying they'd go after him for it, it just doesn't jive with the hardline practical stance of the UNSC.

Well, on paper, the UNSC in actual function is anything but.

[stoic hamlet]

I think it depends on the culture.

The UNSC is heavily inspired by and intended to ape the US…. And uh, the US absolutely would do something like that.

Commonwealth/European countries less so.

But that brings things into a political landscape.

The UNSC probably shouldn’t have that kind of culture… but, well…

[empty bloom]

I mean that more in the sense of, they wouldn't have Chief standing triumphantly alone in statues.

[radiant rock]

I usually look to how Hunt The Truth handled it when I think of how the idolization of John goes down. Hunt The Truth season 1 does almost nothing to set up the plot of Halo 5 and is actually rather contained within itself. In order to stop Ben from spreading the truth about the Spartans and their origins, ONI takes records of an operation they likely greenlit themselves, spin it as the Chief going rogue, and use that to further discredit Ben by the end of the story when everything turns out fine and the one-true-warrior Master Chief was actually good the whole time. It's weaponized information, if anything.

[empty bloom]

They'd recognize the human cost and Chief's sacrifice-and they certainly wouldn't forget the other survivors and sacrifices.

Halo 3, for all its faults, actually did get that at the end, even if I think a Longsword wing is a pretty bad memorial.

[versed helm]

My final words in this: Master Chief is the greatest, the most accomplished and renowned Spartan of all, but he’s over-idolized to the point where some people even loose faith in themselves, and rely on him. Begging MC to come help you when you still got some fight in you is borderline saddening.

Master Chief should be seen as an example, not a tool you can call upon when you’re in a pickle. We must have faith in ourselves above all else, including John Halo.

[empty bloom]

Unfortunately, you can't portray a character as disliking Chief-even with a justifiable reason-without the fanbase soiling its britches in pure rage.

https://tenor.com/view/halo-4-halo-halo-arrest-him-halo-del-rio-lieutenant-arrest-that-man-gif-17775868661155889686

[versed helm]

This made me laugh, thanks for that. I agree with what you say

[stoic hamlet]

This is why I wish we still had a broader look at the canon within books.

Even in scenes where, say, the focus isn’t even on John, and the person in question shouldn’t have that kind of worship…they do.

I want more scenes like the meeting between the ONI higher ups in Ghosts of Onyx, where you have the officers acknowledge how capable Spartans are as a collective, without signaling one out but also rightfully point out their flaws and risks.

But even in modern fiction, like Empty Throne, Chief has to be acknowledged as a singular individual, as if he alone can save everyone.

[empty bloom]

He's a growing boy, he needs his equal attention cake.

[stoic hamlet]

But even Moralez, a veteran ORION operative, who was active during the Insurrection and has spent most of the war looking at the big, big picture as SURGEON, somehow and for some reason knows Master Chief will save the day.

It goes beyond illogical to the fantastical.

[hardy swan]

Well the IVs did try their best on Zeta Halo. They failed

[empty bloom]

Failed what? They didn't even have an objective other than 'cause trouble and survive', and some survived, some caused trouble.

[hardy swan]

I am pretty sure a group of IVs went to hunt down that Brute. The same building that Master Chief soloed

[empty bloom]

Oh, you mean the building that Escharum was pulling his punches in because he wanted his honor duel?

[hardy swan]

Idk Halo Master Chief is the main character he does things that no one else does because he can respawn infinity times

[empty bloom]

That's a vapid way of looking at things.

[versed helm]

Wdym “Pulling his punches”?

[empty bloom]

The entire damn game Escharum is making a big deal about wanting to fight the Spartan as part of his legacy.

[versed helm]

Giant bearded Space Monke with the monke flu wanted a final fade with Mr. John Halo himself, what can I say

[empty bloom]

Which is why he was pulling his punches to slow Chief down and savor the moment.

Chief had a lot of advantages that the IVs of the Reverie lacked, and amusingly, the ego of his enemies overriding their sense of self-preservation was part of it.

[versed helm]

Do you apply this to their final duel?

As in Escharum literally pulled his punches during their battle

[empty bloom]

That was the one time he didn't, but he didn't beat the IVs who tried to assassinate him in single combat either.

Chief was worthy of a 'proper' duel, because "The Master Chief" was worth that duel.

[versed helm]

You’re right. Bearded Space Monkey gets on my nerves. At least Atriox was on the front lines regardless of who he fought, whether it be ODSTs or Elite Minors

[empty bloom]

Like, some people-people who have no strategic or tactical mind whatsoever-think that the IVs lost because they were worse.

In reality, it's because Chief had a lot of advantages they didn't that had nothing to do with his actual skills-not the least of which was an actual mission.

Like, on a short list, Chief had the following going for him;

[versed helm]

Eh, I don’t really agree. If it was maybe one or two missions, sure, but keep in mind he takes over that entire portion of Zeta Halo. All the big bads? Jega, Saham, Bassus, Harbinger and many more leaders of Zeta Halo and even the banished entirely fell to him.

[empty bloom]

• A fully fledged, fully volitional Smart AI capable of autonomous hacking and masking his electronic signal
• An apparently fully operational Pelican with a good pilot
• A full mission plan, complete with knowledge of what the Banished were trying to do and where (The IVs didn't know until they were already about 4-5 months deep into the fighting on Zeta, and were too damaged and injured to do anything about it)
• Undamaged armor
• Comms that weren't compromised (ODSTs removed the Comm array that was tapping UNSC comms)
• An enemy that idolized him enough to understaff his forces
• Underfed enemies with low morale (Banished were infighting a bit by the time Chief arrived again) with multiple HVTs already iced (Rubicon Protocol)

[versed helm]

A fireteam of IVs were wiped out by Myriad. It’s not that they are bad, it’s that Master Chief is pretty darn good.

[empty bloom]

Good for Myriad, that has nothing to do with Chief.

[versed helm]

Chief was the one who took them down, so it does have something to do with him.

[empty bloom]

Good for him. Hardly proves anything.

Without actual knowledge of the exact situation they won in-we don't even know if Myriad killed those Fireteams at Zeta Halo-it's largely a moot point beyond "Chief apparently did something about them, hypothetically, maybe"

For example; I killed them by spawning a Scorpion tank at the nearest camp. Does that mean Chief canonically simplified it by grabbing a tank?

And even if he did, how did the IVs die? An open field while they were kitted to deal with the threat, or were they last-wave shock troops who came across a wounded and embattled fireteam that was already on its last legs?

[spark pivot]

me who literally exhausted every ounce of ammo in the immediate area when I fought myriad bc I didn't prep properly ;-;

[empty bloom]

Context matters in terms of value.

[spark pivot]

That was fun

[versed helm]

Myriad still killed a Spartan IV fireteam, idk what this changes about that. Let me see about the other points

[spark pivot]

Ah yes bc normal hunters haven't absolutely bodied S-II's before

[empty bloom]

What's the count at for bodied by Hunters, like, three?

For IIs

[versed helm]

Master Chief killed them one way or another. Not only that, he took out all of HVTs and some of the Banished’s most deadliest warriors.

[empty bloom]

And so did some IVs. Hell, a IV killed freaking Jul.

[versed helm]

Oh they have and can, they are units. Idk what that has to do with what I’m saying tho.

[spark pivot]

The marines existing who 100% were in on all of that: ._.

[empty bloom]

A hell of a lot, because context matters when determining the circumstances of skill.

[versed helm]

Not when you have overwhelming evidence. Once again, you ignore the fact he took down the Banished and the Harbinger, thwarting their plans. Weapon was in his head, Echo was in the air, Chief was the one doing the dirty work.

[empty bloom]

If I shoot you with a 10 gauge in the back of the head while you're missing an arm and in shock because you've been fighting my buddies for hours, is it a glamorous display of my skill?

[thorn spindle]

do brutes have orc draught

[empty bloom]

Also, the Banished aren't even actually defeated-canonically, they are back under Atriox's control.

And they're still messing up plenty of stuff far away from Zeta.

[versed helm]

When context cannot be found, you leave it alone and don’t speculate. Don’t cherry pick certain examples that argue against the point just because there is no actual defining context.

What we know is what we focus on

Don’t get me started on appeal to possibility

[empty bloom]

Not cherry picking anything and not appealing to possibility.

I'm pointing out that there is a flaw in assuming that Chief found icing the HVTs easy.

[versed helm]

I never said that? He DID it. End of sentence.

[empty bloom]

Or that Myriad iced the fireteam in non-adverse circumstances but instead a straight fight.

Cool, context still matters.

[versed helm]

Not to mention he said fighting the Brute Brothers was “easy”

[versed helm]

Context can’t help in a situation where it doesn’t exist

Once again

[empty bloom]

Two versions of that dialogue, only one says it was easy.

I doubt that's the canon one, actually.

[versed helm]

You are trying to argue for context where none exists currently.

[empty bloom]

And you're assuming context where none exists.

[versed helm]

And the reason for that is?

[versed helm]

Recite to me when I did that

[empty bloom]

^

[empty bloom]

^^^

[empty bloom]

^^^^^^^

[empty bloom]

&^

[versed helm]

Lord have mercy

Who killed Jega?

Who killed Myriad

Who killed Eschy

[empty bloom]

Nobody, as far as we know.

[versed helm]

Who killed them all.

[obsidian thistle]

A note to make is we have no records on "how" Chief takes out the HVTs. Only that he does it, and we have scripted dialogue that potentially differs

[versed helm]

Fan theory. As far as we know, he’s talking with his grandaddys in heaven

[empty bloom]

Ah, so it's only fine when you assume.

Thanks for making that clear.

[versed helm]

So what? Why isn’t he declared dead or not

I mean he cloaked

[empty bloom]

So what? Shows you're arguing in bad faith lmao

That's what

[versed helm]

There is no proof he is still alive

And of course you’ve taken us off tangent

So thanks for that

[empty bloom]

Yeah, that was my point earlier regarding Myriad. We don't even know the context of how they got the kills.

[versed helm]

He still killed them

[empty bloom]

Oh, yeah, it's my fault, totally lmao

Not you getting irritated that I assume IVs aren't getting solo'd from scratch

[obsidian thistle]

Oh Jega occasionally has a corpse. But it seems thats a glitch as most times he just goes invisible when he "dies".

A lotta people use the "was there a body" logic when applying the fact Jega cloaks when defeated.

[versed helm]

I am not irritated? I haven’t been repeating “lmao”

[obsidian thistle]

Seems some writers agree with the "was there a body" logic if memory serves

Gimme a mo

[empty bloom]

Given Halo Infinite's judicious use of tropes, I'm following that one pretty hard.

[versed helm]

They died to Myriad. Myriad got killed by Chief. Can’t add anymore context to that. I’m just playing it by the verbatim

[versed helm]

Alr

[empty bloom]

Yeah, which is why I'm aware that IVs aren't slouches and the most realistic situation Myriad could've beaten the IVs in was terrain that heavily favored Hunters.

Such as injured IVs in close quarters with no anti-armor.

[versed helm]

“Could’ve”. My friend, just leave it at the verbatim.

[empty bloom]

Which, historically, is why Spartans have been killed by Hunters.

No.

[versed helm]

What if I asked nicely?

[empty bloom]

I'd still say no, because it's illogical.

I'm not going to assume Chief, Myriad, or the IVs were at their best at all times.

And it's weird enough that I question it.

I grant that the dead died, but that tells us precisely nothing, and that actually is something that matters when discussing events.

[versed helm]

I’m literally just saying take it by the verbatim, which also means don’t add context on that side as well. That’s what makes these debates weird, we are locked jawed to what’s stated, because me Mint Blitz-ing my way to victory by launching a Warthog 500 mph and killing Myriad that way isn’t (stated as) canon

Master Chief took em down. How? I don’t know. That’s above my pay grade.

[obsidian thistle]

Ah ok so every source unlike all other HVTs talk like Jega is still alive or at the very least not dead.

[versed helm]

Well in that case I’m wrong there, Jega is alive, maybe?

That’s fun

Murder Elite lives on

[obsidian thistle]

Jegas entry in the Encyclopedia is listed as "Immortal Machine" which may imply something

[versed helm]

Well, I guess we can say we don’t know for sure, which means MC didn’t actually kill him.

[obsidian thistle]

As always "was there a body"

[empty bloom]

Not above mine, I'm too much of a stickler about how much fine details matter. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[versed helm]

I will say, their is a statue of Chief attacking Escharum with the blood blade, that be a cool canon version of there fight.

[obsidian thistle]

Thankfully the blood blade isn't exclusive to Jega.

So by all means others may exist on the ring.

[empty bloom]

Plot twist, Jega's actual job wasn't actually to ambush Chief there. He was supposed to just give him a sword.

[versed helm]

Great, I’m happy you dedicate yourself to discovering these things for yourself. Though it is just speculation at the end of the day, it’s always great to hear new ideas and theories, and I agree with most of em anyway.

[versed helm]

Honestly, me and my dad in coop would take him down so quickly we’d think the same thing, that we wasn’t even there for a fight and just give us a cooler experience. Once the shield is down, it’s wraps

[obsidian thistle]

This reminds me that we'll likely never get a full on canonical breakdown of Halo Infinites campaign. So outside knowing some stuff happened. When and how will remain anon unless decided

[empty bloom]

Honestly, so much how Infinite's campaign goes down makes for a really incohesive timeline.

[versed helm]

Fair tbh

It’s open world

You do what you want to do first

[obsidian thistle]

We "know" Chief has killed some HVTs prior to Escharums death

But we also know nothing stops a lot happening post game

[versed helm]

According to the totally reliable Grunt Comm Tower, we also know we didn’t really kill the actual Escharum, rather a bunch of Grunts in a costume.

[obsidian thistle]

Cause the game allows for it

Infinite has a few alt-scripted dialogue

Based when you do certain objectives

[versed helm]

Guess they paid attention to some of the minute details

[empty bloom]

Hyperius+Tovarus have different dialogue depending on who dies first, and Chief has different dialogue if you don't kill them quick.

If Hyperius dies first, for example, Tovarus calls him a coward.

[versed helm]

I was about to say

One of the brothers just absolutely disrespects the other after dying

Tragic

[empty bloom]

It's why I was irritated that Hyperius apparently canonically killed over a dozen Spartans of unspecified generation.

[versed helm]

He needed the Spartan drip, so he asked good ol’ John Halo to throw in a good word at Halo Studios for him

Locke was totally unexpected for me

[empty bloom]

But also why specifics matter. For example, who killed Spartan Sorel?

[midnight kettle]

why is it when i try to post in clans post it delets it

[empty bloom]

Dunno, what do Clans have to do with lore?

[versed helm]

I did accidentally run him over in my light-speed Worthog, maybe that did it

[midnight kettle]

I just relized i typed in the wrong chat

[obsidian thistle]

Annex Ridge for example has a few cases.

1. If you found a ring totem
2. If you killed Eschsrum or not.

Both impact dialogue causing the curious question...

What is canon.

Well the reasonable answer is Chief and Weapon dont have dialogue for the totem rings if they visit Annex Ridge first... so its reasonable to rule out that aspect... they found one first

But we 100% cant work out when Chief takes it out.

[versed helm]

So long story short: Halo Infinite has a bunch of holes in the minute details

[obsidian thistle]

No

We just have no solid timeline for optional stuff

By all means Chief could go through everything doing the bare minimum that lore requires

Then do it after the campaign

[empty bloom]

If you're looking for specific details, Halo CE's the only one that really has a canon play-by-play... And even that is entirely contradicted by multiple sources.

[empty bloom]

(This tends to be the one I assume)

[obsidian thistle]

For "optional" stuff.
CEAs terminals are found and recovered
4s terminals are found and recovered.
3s terminals are found and recovered.
ODSTs Audio Logs were found and recovered.
Reachs Data Pads were found and recovered.

This accounts for most lore relevant optional objectives

H2As stuff is weird. That seems non-canon they were found

And Halo 5... well no idea there

Spartan Ops in the rare optional outcomes... we cant say what happened there

[empty bloom]

Halopedia tends to assume any Spartan IV team present that isn't Crimson dies, for some weird reason. Never vibed with that.

[versed helm]

So they have them listed as deceased?

[empty bloom]

Some, or unknown.

[versed helm]

I see

[obsidian thistle]

I believe thats mostly Mountain

https://www.halopedia.org/Mountain_Squad

Which was reasoned based on the fact there is no evac and the two relevant missions happen back to back

And even if one survives...

Boom gone

I do wonder if HS will consider the fact Hacksaw is tied to an achievement to have them return?

https://www.halopedia.org/Hacksaw_Squad

But thats a case of optional outcomes

Numerous if memory serves

[empty bloom]

Marine's full of snark when they're pinned down and waiting for Spartan reinforcements.

Y'know, I should do a fan novelization of Spartan Ops one of these days.

Make that guy a real Silva.

[obsidian thistle]

There is optional outcome dialogue for 2+, 1, or 0 survivors.

Its fun but frustrating for wiki purposes lol

[empty bloom]

Can't rip the dialogue directly without sifting for hours, I take it?

[obsidian thistle]

More we dont know whats canon lol

[empty bloom]

Or that.

[hardy swan]

Worse design for a marine ever

[bronze prawn]

how long it takes for a spartan to get tired

or to even having the need to sleep

[hardy swan]

a long time

[empty bloom]

Which is always a funny take to see, considering it's objectively the most practical.

Y'know, for a fanbase who crows about realism as often as it seems to on the more dense end of the spectrum, Halo fans do tend to hate the few times Halo actually has a more practical and realistic armor.

[hardy swan]

sorry but why do they look like hurt loocker looking mfs with kevlar against aliens

[empty bloom]

Why did Halo CE marines raid the tan cerakote and pots and pans section?

Or, alternatively, Halo 2's marines wearing kevlar rigs.

[hardy swan]

the best marine look is obviously halo 2 and 3

[empty bloom]

Opinions are like-

Well, you know the rest. But everyone has one.

Anyways, Halo 2's marines are also pretty practical, but I think their livery is very ugly.

[hardy swan]

H2A marines objectively look the best they fit the universe well

[empty bloom]

Objectively, that's an opinion, not an objective reality.

[hardy swan]

k

[thorn spindle]

I like Halo 1 Marines look, cuz Aliens, the style big armor plates and the green eye thing. Its like the pillar of autumn: what do we do vs plasma weapons? Idk just put lots of reinforced alloy in the way

[bronze prawn]

Im surprised how well armed and well equiped some marines look in the first 3 games

isnt humanity esentially with his back to the wall against the covenant

[hardy swan]

Never underestimate the military industrial complex

[empty bloom]

Eh, looks can be deceiving. We know from newer lore blurbs that what was left of the UNSC was a helter-skelter mismatch of whatever they had left in stock. In terms of actual canon depictions, you likely had H2, H2A, H3, HR, HW, HW2 armor styles in the same units.

[summer vigil]

I just did a google earth overlay and I think the excavation crater in Halo 3 is 77 miles in diameter

[hardy swan]

good to know

[fair hazel]

This marine and the halo 4 standard marinese don't look very disimilar in terms of protection, with the 4 marine's helmet being a bit more protective looking.

[empty bloom]

Yeah, just about. The hidden thing nobody talks about is that Halo 4 Marines actually have a lot of similarities to Halo CE and Halo 2 Classic Marines, but nobody's ready for that conversation.

[unique rune]

always struck me as super weird that people don't seem to realize that the vest is kinda just what a plate carrier looks like when it's not covered in stuff

[spark pivot]

As someone who just acquired a plate carrier, yeah, it looks exactly like that lol

[empty bloom]

That's actually been the source of some folk's complaints, lmao.

[orchid kettle]

I mean I always understood that

[empty bloom]

This conveniently ignoring that Marines have been wearing what were effectively GWOT uniforms since CE.

Which is pretty similar to a camo-less PASGT vest.

[orchid kettle]

The HW2 Marines are essentially just the H4 ones with some changes and a different color scheme and I think they end up looking a lot better

Even if in turn they end up looking like Imperial Guardsmen at Home

[empty bloom]

The one thing I tend to agree on regarding H4/H5 Marine armor is that the color scheme is kinda crappy.

[orchid kettle]

I don't get a military-vibe from the design they used in the pre-render cutscene

Like you could put them on Meridian as corporate security and it'd probably fit better

[empty bloom]

The rust-on-white livery?

[orchid kettle]

Yeah

[unique rune]

The color choices sure... were choices

[spark pivot]

To be fair, it seems to be mostly designed for ship-ship combat and boarding, and most ship interiors are that kind of white

[unique rune]

It definitely looks better with some of the color variations that have more olive and grey-black

[spark pivot]

Woodland/arid camo doesn't help much in a white or steel hallway

[spark pivot]

Fair

[orchid kettle]

I mean in the close quarters of a ship are you even really banking on being able to blend into the scenery

[empty bloom]

At that point the logic is like urban warfare. You're trying to avoid outlining yourself, not so much blending in as stopping an immediate reaction.

[spark pivot]

Ye that

[empty bloom]

Swap out the squishsuit for something more camouflaged, maybe a two-tone desert or forest camo, and we good.

The medic being so obnoxiously standout always kinda stood out to me in a bad way.

[orchid kettle]

Im also not super wild about the green-red jumpsuit

[empty bloom]

Talking about color choices that irritate me, why the hell are Marine Snipers in Infinite wearing freaking blue?

[spark pivot]

Yeah, bc I assume innies and the covenant/banished don't follow the geneva convention

[spark pivot]

Euh?

[empty bloom]

They straight up wear NWUs.

[orchid kettle]

I kinda get the sense they made the marine colors first and then just kinda slapped roles onto them for the sake of the valor system

[spark pivot]

Idk, the navy always has weird camo choices

[empty bloom]

But these are Marines!

[spark pivot]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[orchid kettle]

Like the "Heavy Marine" wears black armor and green fatigues

[spark pivot]

Probably the best they had avaliable

[orchid kettle]

how that's supposed to help them be Heavy, I have no clue

[spark pivot]

?

[empty bloom]

No, that's the Breacher, I think. The heavy is dark olive on black fatigues.

[spark pivot]

This guy?

[empty bloom]

No, that's the Sniper.

One sec.

[orchid kettle]

https://www.halopedia.org/images/8/89/HINF_MarineHeavyAssault.png?3892a

[spark pivot]

I replied to the other msg lol

[empty bloom]

Demo is olive on black, right.

[orchid kettle]

I think people have extracted a ton of different color combinations for the Marines in the archive server

[spark pivot]

What in the M81 camo knockoff

[orchid kettle]

including the corpsman from the season 2 cutscene

[empty bloom]

I mean it's the same camo, just with the color values shifted.

[orchid kettle]

oh i didn't realize the Marines could spawn with the shovel from Rakshasa

[empty bloom]

Yeah, it's been a thing since launch.

[steel aurora]

Me neither, cool detail

[dusk jetty]

They have a lot of cosmetics that we got as well

They have flareguns

And I think(?) the bandolier in the soldier pack

[empty bloom]

I wish our flaregun was red

Actually, I wish the flaregun was a useable weapon

[dusk jetty]

I wish we had the Gungnir shoulders that they have

And all their variations of it

[empty bloom]

That reminds me-Mark Vb is still missing the GUNGNIR shoulders, but also the NxRA leg attachment.

[dusk jetty]

Missing the base security too

[empty bloom]

Oh, yeah. That's a thing.

I still find marines wearing NxRA legs funny because that'd snap their legs like a twig.

[dusk jetty]

The marines have it I think too

And some random goggle attachment that I assume is a smartlink

[empty bloom]

(NxRA stands for nonexplosive Reactive Armor)

(Reactive armor generally reacts by bending and warping)

(You do not want that on your femur when it does this)

[dusk jetty]

Weird, their holstered pistol might not be a sidekick

I’m looking at it right now it might actually be a magnum

M6G if I had to guess

[empty bloom]

Oh god, I've had this exact conversation with @obsidian thistle

[dusk jetty]

What was your conclusion?

[empty bloom]

I still think it's a nonidentified pistol, he thinks it's a magnum variant.

Unless his tact has changed since the last we've talked about it

It's the same pistol Lasky has in Halo 4.

[dusk jetty]

The sights and ridges above the grip certainly make me think it’s either a M6C or M6H

Add that to the list of odd things marines have I suppose

[karmic gulch]

New last stand lore boutta be crazy

[obsidian thistle]

Oie

I didn't say Magnum variant

😛

I was always team unidentified

https://www.halopedia.org/Pistol#Unidentified_models

Ya got the Halo 4 Lasky version

https://www.halopedia.org/images/a/ac/H4-Laskys_pistol.png?110cd

And the misc Halo Infinite version

https://www.halopedia.org/images/a/a2/HINF-Marine_Pistol.png?c064c

[empty bloom]

TBF, the last time it happened, I was still unbanned from Halopedia.

So my memory is spotty.

[carmine sleet]

They should give us lore on what that pistol is

[unique rune]

Looks kinda like an M6C without the trigger guard thing

[dusk jetty]

My thoughts as well

It has a groove for the rangefinder

[spark pivot]

Going off of the general pattern, it's 100% an m6, which m6 is up in the air

[spark pivot]

How does one get banned from halopedia...

[empty bloom]

I was even more volatile than I am now and I made a meme about one of the mods.

[spark pivot]

But... it's like wiki but for halo, how do you get banned from the site?

[empty bloom]

Oh I'm not banned from the website just the discord

[steel aurora]

Was the meme funny

[empty bloom]

They were complaining about lightbridges in Halo 4 being too bright, so it was about that. Not that funny I'm afraid.

[steel aurora]

Sounds like something a halopedia discord user would complain about

[empty bloom]

To be clear, it was apparently a last straw type deal.

[covert dome]

You think if you took a bite into a hardlight bridge you’d get harmed in some way? I just sometimes think about this for some reason.

What is the lore of hardlight and is it dangerous

[steel aurora]

prolly some form of cancer

[fair hazel]

You'd just try to bite something solid, you couldn't

[empty bloom]

I always figured walking on a light bridge would make your hair stand on edge, as a magnetic sort of thing.

[fair hazel]

I think they'd want something stable

[thorn spindle]

i guess it can look like glowy smooth slate of candy

[ionic violet]

How smooth is it ya think?

[radiant rock]

Like the skin of a shark, perfectly smooth front and back

[karmic gulch]

Rakashas good for stealth right?

[unique rune]

It’s good for survivability

[karmic gulch]

so good for worlds deep in banished territory?

[unique rune]

It’s intended for long-term operation without friendly support, so, yeah

[karmic gulch]

alr cool

and then are there any speeders/motorcycles used by spartans?

[unique rune]

Mongoose, Ghost, and Jackrabbit are probably about all we know that they'd be able to use I think

[karmic gulch]

Jackrabbit?

[thorn spindle]

its like a motorcycle with guns scout vehicle u can see it in halo wars games

[unique rune]

https://www.halopedia.org/M121_Jackrabbit

[karmic gulch]

Oh ok cool!

[stoic hamlet]

Halopedia cries out to be used with a lot of questions on here…

[unique rune]

wurdz am hard

[empty bloom]

Hang on let me just ask Chat GPT what Halo fun facts I should know

[unique rune]

horrifying

[karmic gulch]

could the jackrabbit be used for my fireteam in banished territory?

its in an environment like the one on zeta halo

[stoic hamlet]

#lore-and-universe message this has your answer, I’m sure.

[karmic gulch]

alr

[dusk jetty]

Something something August 30th last stand something something

If one more person tells me some made up fact about sixes last stand I will burst a blood vessel

[karmic gulch]

RIP noble six 🫡

[stoic hamlet]

What do you mean last stand? He’s in a cave. Silly goose.

[karmic gulch]

lol

[dusk jetty]

The cave of death

Mega death

[karmic gulch]

he got nuked 😭

[empty bloom]

Does that include my firm belief about him dying because he was routed and trying to escape the killing fields?

Which is primarily supported by the facts of the environment?

[dusk jetty]

No because you have evidence for that as opposed to blatant lying about dates

“Fought for multiple days” when it’s literally the SAME day as the autumn leaving

[wispy pewter]

it's light that is hard

[high elbow]

Noble Six had to survive Reach. He wouldn’t have made it to my Birthday party last year if he didn’t

[dusk jetty]

Factual

You win

[high elbow]

Yay 🙂
Alright folks, pack it up. Noble Six survived. We solved all of Halo. We can disband the sever now

[unique rune]

maybe he fell in the cave and couldn’t get back up

[stoic hamlet]

Oh noes! The poor dear! D:

[carmine sleet]

It's just like that time a man fell into the Lego City river!

[stoic hamlet]

HEY

[empty bloom]

... Huh.

[carmine sleet]

https://tenor.com/view/eto-bleh-gif-14618428694469046242

[empty bloom]

I just realized Boggart has an AI slot.

I'm honestly still trying to figure out who Boggart is even made for, presumably Jannissaries. It'd be nice to see a Jannissary actually canonically use it.

Not that it'd be like, something someone would identify as Boggart at a glance.

[obsidian thistle]

This reminds me I need to go crazy later screenshot wise.

[karmic gulch]

did spartan 3s ever wear Mk IV?

[empty bloom]

Presumably, teams like Noble would have been.

[karmic gulch]

what about gamma company?

[empty bloom]

Not much of a point with them, they would've gotten out right when GEN2 would've been in vogue so they'd likely wear that.

IIRC the common theory is that they wore Recluse when wearing MJOLNIR.

[karmic gulch]

Oh ok

[empty bloom]

Running GEN1 Mark IV is kinda like running an F-14 in 2025. Like, yeah, it's problably gonna be fine most of the time, but you're still hilariously out of date as far as combat models of anything go, and that comes with teething issues as a matter of course.

[steel aurora]

God I wish they’d bring back Recluse.

[unique rune]

I wish they'd bring back GEN2 in general but alas

[carmine sleet]

I miss it too, Nova, I miss it too

[strange pumice]

Maybe, in one day, just maybe

[karmic gulch]

this is Recluse?

[empty bloom]

Yes

[karmic gulch]

Alr cool

[empty bloom]

During development (In the real world, not in-universe) it was A-55.

[karmic gulch]

Yeah

Not seeing it in MCC

[karmic gulch]

Is it in MCC?

[empty bloom]

No. Halo 5 only.

[karmic gulch]

Oh that’s why

[karmic gulch]

What’s the closest you can get to it in 4?

[empty bloom]

Locus

[karmic gulch]

Alr thanks

[karmic gulch]

What about the rest? I could only find the locus helmet

[carmine sleet]

Locus was only a helmet in Halo 4

[karmic gulch]

Oh

[karmic gulch]

So what should I have for the rest?

[carmine sleet]

https://tenor.com/view/i-don't-know-idk-idk-about-that-gif-7336250873949261946

[dusk jetty]

It’s in infinite too

5 as well but it’s the exact same as 4 pretty much

[karmic gulch]

Do we know if Rakasha can be worn by unaugmented people?

[unique rune]

I'm pretty sure Rakshasa is only made for the Mjolnir platform so probably not

[karmic gulch]

Oh

Just since it’s only really cloth and titanium

And tech

Doesn’t seem like it would be to heavy

[carmine sleet]

In the context of the conversation, we were talking about in Halo 5, Locus was a full set, they asked if there was a full set in Halo 4

[dusk jetty]

Ah

I expected more from you eon

[carmine sleet]

https://tenor.com/view/doctor-who-bbc-bbc-iplayer-disney-plus-mr-ring-a-ding-gif-4959022598802130062

[unique rune]

With any post-Mk.IV model of Mjolnir it’s never been the weight that’s the issue for unaugmented humans, the suit’s strength amplification and reactivity requires the musculoskeletal and neurological augmentations to survive wearing it

[karmic gulch]

Ohhh

I always just thought it was too heavy and caused spine damage

[unique rune]

Nah, the weight is an issue that Mjolnir basically takes care of on its own. But without the augmentations, the suit responds so quickly and with so much force that it essentially just rips the muscle from the wearer’s bones and crushes their skeleton at the same time

[karmic gulch]

Oh

That’s erm… brutal

[spark pivot]

yes.

[carmine sleet]

T'is the nature of making the tools of war

[stoic hamlet]

Dare wears it for Operation SONATA, though that could be a visual conceit.

The description does imply it might be able to be worn by unaugmented people, but it could also be referring to S-IV’s.

[carmine sleet]

I just assumed it was done that reason and it's not actually meant to imply Rakshasa can be worn by anyone

[oblique quiver]

Deserves his own book tbh

[radiant rock]

Halo: The Third Rodent

[oblique quiver]

Yes lol

Quest of the cheese

Halo: operation cheese

[sonic lagoon]

In the banished how are the roles of elites and brutes generally specialized when fighting together? I ask as it was rather rare for them to fight together on foot in the covenant.

[sand horizon]

I'd like to get everyone opinions on my theory just ask and I'll explain away how and why i came to these conclusions
I understand it now
Average Spartan-IV
Height: 6'3
Weight: 240 lbs
Lifting Strength: 600 lbs
Reaction Time: 100 milliseconds
Sprint Speed: 22.5 mph
Punching force: 2100 lbs

Spartan III
Height: 6’5
Weight: 239 lbs
Lifting Strength: 1003.8 lbs
Reaction time: 20 milliseconds
Sprint Speed: 30 mph
Punching force: 3513.3 lbs

Spartan II
Height: 6’10
Weight: 290 lbs
Lifting Strength: 1218 lbs
Reaction time: 20 milliseconds
Sprint Speed: 35 mph
Punching force: 4263 lbs

[unique rune]

no

[stoic hamlet]

Just skimming, but on average the III’s are shorter than anyone else. Mind you part of that is due to attrition early on, so it drops the average down, but the average III might not even hit 6’0”.

[karmic gulch]

How old even were they when they got augments?

[stoic hamlet]

Alpha Company: 7-9 on average

Beta Company: 9-11 on average

Gamma Company: 10-12 on average

There are some absurd outliers, but they’re outliers and don’t really factor in to the majority.

[karmic gulch]

Ok

And then how old would a gamma be now (during infinite)?

[stoic hamlet]

Depending on their DOB, anywhere from. 18-21.

But due to cryo (assuming they spent a lot of time in cryo) they should look younger. Still mid teens.

[karmic gulch]

That’s still really young!

[stoic hamlet]

Gamma Company, like Alpha and Beta, began training when they were between 4-6 years old, and the average age for them would have been 5 years old in 2545.

Ergo, they’re still young.

[karmic gulch]

😱

[sonic lagoon]

When Master Chief goes to fight the Didact alone, is he a filibusterer?

[tulip kettle]

Halo Wars 2 had cool cinematics between missions. For the intro to Halo Wars 2 how long are they asleep? Is it just the ship AI in control of Spirit of Fire? Or are they rotating out whos in deep sleep?

[strange pumice]

28 years they sleep iirc

[wispy pewter]

Well Jerome should be around Master Chief's age but physically he is still 20+

[tulip kettle]

I dont look at myself as a spartan. I was the dude driving the Warthog in Halo Wars 1 trailer.

[strange pumice]

You mean about Sergeant Forge?

[strange pumice]

Their previous AI, Serina have served with them up to events to Halo Wars 2, but due to growing rampancy(Serina is "smart" AI, and "smart" AI life is 7 years), she started protocol to deleting herself, but before she recorded rapport for Captain Cutter
Their current AI on the Ark, Isabel

[strange pumice]

Born to be young

[stoic hamlet]

as per The Flood, standard procedure is to have a rotating roster of engineers who are woken up periodically to check on the ship’s systems.

[strange pumice]

Iirc, only the main engineering crew have been rotating?

[obsidian thistle]

We see this in that one graphic novel story also

Rip that one engineer

[karmic gulch]

Are any of the fracture armour cores canon?

Because eaglestrike kinda looks like it could

[wispy pewter]

alternate universe

[karmic gulch]

Oh ok

[carmine sleet]

The only fracture which is canon is Chimera, as there is a single Executor in existence thanks to Governer Sloan from Halo 5

[karmic gulch]

Ohhhh

[carmine sleet]

A fun detail about the Executor is that they were formerly the person who left the datapads you can find in Halo Reach

[karmic gulch]

That’s interesting

Why only one executor?

[carmine sleet]

Because Sloan only had one guy to turn into one

[karmic gulch]

Oh ok

What makes executors different than normal Spartans?

[carmine sleet]

They're not Spartans

They're made using humans, but not all human super soldiers are Spartans

[karmic gulch]

So then what are they?

[carmine sleet]

Executors

The whole thing is they're humans augmented so far that the line between biological and machine is blurred and are basically subservient to an AI controlling them

[karmic gulch]

Do they even need MJOLNIR at that point?

[carmine sleet]

No, they're using Chimera, which is basically their body

Like, they're not just people wearing armour

Executors are more akin to a Cyberman from Doctor Who in that sense

(More specifically the Pete's World Cybermen)

[karmic gulch]

Huh

[empty bloom]

"Normal Spartans" are humans who got augmented via specific Spartan procedures (The I, II, III, IV-Pr, and IV) and received training as Spartans through the UNSC. Anyone who received only the former is not a Spartan.

[karmic gulch]

Ok

And executors didn’t get Spartan training?

[empty bloom]

Because they are not Spartans, no.

And they are not augmented like Spartans either.

[karmic gulch]

Oh ok

[empty bloom]

Beyond Spartans, there are 4 varieties of in-universe supersoldier.

Jannissaries, which are Venezian-made augmented human mercenaries. They use augmentations derived from, but not identical to, Spartan augs, and do not receive Spartan training due to being Venezians.

Executors, which are Created-made augmented human-born slave-soldiers. They use Created-designed augmentations and receive their own training. There's also only one so far.

Prelates, which are Covenant-made Prophets which receive their own form of Spartan-like augmentations. Obviously, they aren't Spartan trained.

ONI is confirmed to have their own breed of augmented agents, but the nature of these augments is, as far as anyone can tell, not uniform and not "Spartan-like", and in some cases are described as being even more lethal. They don't receive Spartan training.

The "Fracture" equivalents (Which are expressly non-canon) to Spartans are;

Yoroi's Samurai, which are augmented through mystical and material means and can degenerate into demons.

Entrenched soldiers are not actually elaborated very heavily upon regarding their differences from their normal troops; It's implied through key art for the events they are not the mainline soldier of their universe, but are very common

[karmic gulch]

Huh

[stoic hamlet]

Specifically the only parts of Chimera that are canon fully are the base suit and the MERROW helmet. Everything else is non-canon.

[carmine sleet]

Aye

But it's easier to just say Chimera is canon when explaining it to people

[empty bloom]

I like Merrow because it's explicitly shaped like a hound skull.

[carmine sleet]

I like it for being named in reference to Irish folklore

[stoic hamlet]

I just think it’s neat~

[carmine sleet]

https://tenor.com/view/cyberman-excellent-gif-14374847

Speaking of Chimera though, I hope we one day learn what was going on here. Or are we meant to take this as cool promo art?

[ionic tiger]

Probably just promo art, though I remember that seasons gear dealt a lot with the “viral machine”, so rampancy that seemingly spreads like a disease from what I gather.

[unborn patrol]

I think its promo but I can imagine them finding a way to tie it in later

since atm theres only one chimera in existence I think

[carmine sleet]

Fair. I just wish it was something more

[carmine sleet]

Already talked about that earlier today. It's one of my favourite things, that there's just one currently

[unborn patrol]

I imagine we will have more and theyll maybe have more relevance in the future

[ionic tiger]

It very well could be. All the non-canon stuff seems to point to what COULD happen with the Executors. I can easily see them mine from here that as they develop them further.

[carmine sleet]

Fair

[carmine sleet]

I really want to see more. Let them be like a new boogeymen which hear about being sighted on Outer Colonies and abducting people to convert into more Executors until one day we see them attack a major Inner Colony world

[unborn patrol]

can anyone be turned into an executor?

[stoic hamlet]

As far as we know, maybe?

It seems at this point to require a certain state of mind, though.

[unborn patrol]

hmm

would think a certain level of fitness be a requirement even if they remake a lot of the human

[carmine sleet]

I imagine they're mainly after the brain and vital organs of a human and not much of the rest for making Executors

Like, they won't need stuff like the human's leg when they can just graft on new synthetic legs instead

[unborn patrol]

no yea for sure but fitness is also about the well being of your vital organs

[carmine sleet]

True

I imagine they'd likely not bother with anyone on the verge of dying unless there was a really good reason

[empty bloom]

From how Flenser is described, they really like taking brains and spines from people to make more AI against their will.

[ionic tiger]

On the other hand, with the ability to essentially rebuild the body those types of people might be good subjects in a “we can make you something greater” way.

[carmine sleet]

Fair point

[carmine sleet]

It's all you need for a prefectly helpful and loyal AI for the Created cause

[stoic hamlet]

Well, “helpful” and “loyal” are being used rather lightly here.

Considering they’re basically insane.

[carmine sleet]

I am being a little satirical here

[empty bloom]

It'll be fiiiine.

[karmic gulch]

can you be in space with Rakasha on?

[empty bloom]

Don't see why not, it's a full fledged MJOLNIR offshoot.

[karmic gulch]

Oh ok, though where’s the life support?

[radiant rock]

It's likely built the same way that ODST EV suits are. They're very similar.

[karmic gulch]

How are they built?

[radiant rock]

https://www.halopedia.org/ODST_armor

Design details category covers it a bit

[karmic gulch]

Thanks

[empty bloom]

Even regular MJOLNIR physically does not have the volume to contain the amount of 'life support' it has in conjunction with the space to fit a human of Spartan size.

[empty bloom]

I've done design dives on Rakshasa before. It's not really related to ODST suits, but it heavily notes MJOLNIR work and has a visible techsuit a'la GEN2.

Even a plateless GEN2 bodysuit is powered-and armored. So it likely offshoots from GEN2, like GEN3 did, given the major design successes of the GEN2 platform.

[orchid kettle]

In the concept art for Rakshasa it's shown to be little more than some coveralls and a pair of boots

And some of these elements can still be seen in the final design I believe, where you can see where the "sleeve" would have ended under the wrist armor

only another sleeve just continues on past it to connect with the glove.

I believe in-game as well you can see the suit seems to stop at the ankles instead of connecting with the boots

[empty bloom]

Yeah, but concept art isn't 1=1.