lore-and-universe

[orchid kettle]

and if you're a good person you just gotta sit back and shut up until somebody threatens the status quo

[empty bloom]

It's very rough to be more forward-thinking IRL because progress can be seen as a dirty word to a not-insignifcant portion of a given group-because it's moving away from the comfortable now.

[carmine sleet]

Then you have Spider-Man's which includes a guy who's whole scheme is to turn everyone into dinosaurs despite the fact he could very easily cure cancer with his research

[empty bloom]

While Jul's entire rebellion was literally caused by Thel's cultural reformist mindset pissing Sangheili off, you know Microsoft of 2024 isn't going to touch the concept of Sangheili women's rights struggles in a novel about stopping Cortana, especially when they've gone with the framing of "Actually they have a lot of power behind the scenes".

At least-they won't tackle it very effectively.

And being charitable, that's not something easy to do anyways.

(It's also not a condemnation of 343i's own handling of equality-Halo's just a very weird platform to work on the subject within)

[orchid kettle]

Sometimes the UNSC as a whole feels weirdly inhuman to me with how we don't really explore the idea of any higher up being motivated by ego or power or whatever human flaw, and most of the time, we're expected to believe that everybody involved legitimately thinks they're working towards the greater good, and its just a matter of how far they'll go

like in fact wasnt there some lore tidbit about how there's an ONI section dedicated to getting rid of anybody who's acting in their own self interest

[empty bloom]

I don't know, but that'd be a hell of a point towards authoritarian UEG fanboys.

[orchid kettle]

i dunno maybe if we focused more on like, the UEG congress or whatever, considering how Del Rio acts as a senator

[empty bloom]

https://tenor.com/view/not-brave-enough-for-politics-gif-26891875

[orchid kettle]

but obviously that'd still read as like military propaganda if you created this sense that the civilian government is rotten to the core, unlike the UNSC, which is full of stalwart strong men, willing to do anything in the name of the greater good

[empty bloom]

I mean you literally have the UEG being 'taken over' by the UNSC for a while and the UNSC somehow doesn't do the horrible thing.

[orchid kettle]

parangosky totally doesnt abuse her power to take up three parking spaces in the ONI parking lot

[empty bloom]

Granted, the UNSC didn't take power violently, so it's not like it was a coup, but... You'd think people would be more oppressed.

Like cross-compare the COG to the UNSC and the UNSC is downright saintly.

[orchid kettle]

I mean we do have this idea that like, civilian travel was just out and out banned but its obviously justified in the narrative of Cole Protocol

and anyone who disagrees is painted as a petulant lil baby and probably a smuggler criminal anyway

[empty bloom]

But then the Reach adverts just say 'nah it's chill airports still work'

Well

Spaceports

[orchid kettle]

maybe the ban was only for a lil while as they started implementing the cole protocol across the fleet

[empty bloom]

I could see that.

[orchid kettle]

or maybe its another example of the human covenant war's impact never really being felt unless your planet was personally being invaded right at that moment

because writers want to craft this scenario of the perfect, idyllic human world suddenly coming under threat

[empty bloom]

God I always feel bad because I love comparing how Gears and Halo handle the leading governance, because people who say the UNSC/UEG is like, incredibly authoritarian don't come across as right in a strict, established fact reading of the canon. It's mostly that ONI was individually a horrible org that sometimes disappeared like, one person every trillion.

[orchid kettle]

and that's undermined somewhat if people are struggling because of 27 years of war

[carmine sleet]

No doubt the Covenant deniers were in shambles when a Covenant cruiser began glassing their homes

[empty bloom]

I mean at least one was lmao

Ackerson's brother thought it was bogus

[carmine sleet]

I forgot about him, been a while

[orchid kettle]

I think if you compare the dates, that story was like a week after New Mombasa too

[carmine sleet]

Oh he must've been really big on denying it then

[empty bloom]

"Gee there sure are a lot more grim-faced UNSC troops and stuff"

[orchid kettle]

which I guess like, bro was so confused about why they'd come to Chicago or wherever he was?

[empty bloom]

Pittsburgh

[orchid kettle]

but like... they kill people. And a mega-city has people.

[carmine sleet]

"Nah, those aren't aliens, they're just doing a crazy light show"

[empty bloom]

Like we don't even know anything about how the UEG is organized beyond the basic basics. There's Senators, planetary governors, a Cabinet, and a President.

[orchid kettle]

i can kinda forgive battleborn for doing this again if only because its supposed to feel like some basic high school level melodrama being interrupted by the very real stakes of an alien invasion

[empty bloom]

Wait. The Cabinet enforces United Interstellar Law?

Interesting?

It's honestly funny that like, the UEG's practically a footnote and Unified Interstellar Law has literally only been mentioned in Shadows of Reach

[stoic hamlet]

It’s an issue book-to-book really.

Weirdly earlier lore (Cole Protocol especially) highlighted how grim things were, even though it went with the older lore of quick glassings but no real protracted campaigns, and I could actually see that as a situation where people just don’t think it’s a real thing.

But more recent lore has gone with open, prolonged ground battles, where there’s no way that mood wouldn’t permeate in any off world unit getting assigned to the next holdout planet.

You’d have a cascading effect of dropping morale as actual UNSC and PDF forces retreat.

Like, imagine being either a civilian or in a PDF unit on… idk, Concord, in 2550, and you start seeing a ton of off-worlders showing up. You strike up a convo with one over some smokes and you ask about where they’re all from, how they like being in the UNSC and he’s like “UNSC? No, I’m PDF, Actium, 23rd Mechanized. The guy with the canteen is from Miridem, 17th Signal Corps. No, no, our units aren’t billeted together, we’re the same unit. Yeah, mergers, to replace losses. A big conglomerate unit. And they took our vehicles too, gave ‘em to UNSC units after Meridian. Yeah, it’s a damn shame.”

Even if they’re ordered to secrecy, you can’t hide moods like that.

[crimson oak]

Like which leaders? I’m pretty sure the only time they’ve teamed up with aliens is when it was necessary for survival. To even think about it is an extreme crime and would get you killed. I don’t think I’ve heard of anyone being in between. Imperial officers are either thinking of complete betrayal or not at all.

[thorn spindle]

prob Guilliman

every1 else has to hide it

every1 else is trapped as a cog

[crimson oak]

Like who

[thorn spindle]

every1 bc its punishable. but humans r still humans in 40k so i like to think they can be similar to us if guided properly. they r just trapped

mayb someone can open the floodgates of such feelings it would be interesting 40k story line

but theyd have to be powerful bc it's against the entire imperium

[crimson oak]

Okay so it’s a wild guess. Most imperial citizens have probably been brainwashed their entire life like people in North Korea. I find it highly unlikely

[thorn spindle]

well its not totally wild, just like real life, new generations come up and can learn differently. like if north korean babies grew up in diff families or places theyd be open to more stuff. 40k just doesnt have it yet, but can

[crimson oak]

But that doesn’t make them immune to the propaganda that’s being enforced from the moment they’re born

[thorn spindle]

some1 powerful can raise them in free environment. maybe guilliman can try one day. or big e can revive and start a new path and carve better imperium

big e may try new imperium v2 one day

[crimson oak]

I’m not really deep into 40k lore. When has gulliman shown that kind of thinking?

[thorn spindle]

its all up to the powers that be

[crimson oak]

I get he doesn’t listen to authorities like the high lords but that’s all I know and that doesn’t really say much

[thorn spindle]

id say he is most likely, bc he at least sees the imperium flaws and wants to change it

sometimes he goes on rants about such stuff. its sad no1 else can

one such time was when he speaks with emperor

[crimson oak]

I guess if he’s very logical about it. The imperiums unwillingness to invest in improving their tech like A.I seems like a very obvious mistake.

They literally have people manning their gigantic ship canons like WW2 warships. What is that?

[stoic hamlet]

Roboute isn’t really any better than the typical Imperial in 40K. He’s just not religious, but he subscribes to the same mantra of the Imperium.

That hasn’t changed at all

The Imperium is a self-perpetuating cycle that’s “too big to fail”. It’s several dozen micro governments in a trench coat, held together with oaths and treaties and administrative duct-tape.

With a populace perpetuating traditions and fears based on at one point real issues that have since been taken to the extreme.

[thorn spindle]

i think of Guilliman's line

this bloated, rotting carcass of an empire is driven not by reason and hope but by fear hate and ignorance. Better that we had all burned in the fires of Horus' ambition than lived to see this

[stoic hamlet]

There’s always a misunderstanding that the Imperium is a functioning, traditional government, but it’s very much just a dozen or more different micro-empires all working very loosely together.

There is no cohesion, no real trust. Everyone is wary of the other. There is no healing the system, no better path under the Imperium. Anyone who tries never gets far enough to succeed.

The Imperium isn’t entirely a rotting cessspit, not on every world.

But it’s a slowly decaying organism that can’t actually heal the sickness. It’s a malignant tumour that occasionally has signs of staving off the worst of the illness but can never truly manage to hold on.

Something good happens, like the Sabbat Worlds crusade, for example, and while the Imperium regains dozens of star systems, they bleed countless other planets dry. And those planets rebel for one reason or another and the PDF joins in, and so the Guard and Navy get called to restore order, but X group swore an oath to Y planet, so they join the supposed rebels, and there is no chaos, no Xenos taunt or trickery. It’s just people killing people, for wealth, for power, for food, for their homes, their families, for survival.

[ivory stump]

I do still wonder's how's education on other colonies and the Earth in that timeline

[spice crystal]

If its not a big colony like reach (not an innie world but its "modernized") then you would either work or get taught basics in life like speech, abcs. But it depends on the size and structure

[wispy pewter]

I bet the UEG has one department of education

[radiant rock]

That may not be the case, since the needs of the people are usually dictated by what the planet is known for. Like an agricultural world would be more focused on teaching those specific topics.

Folks don't seem to have generalized education in the Halo universe to me.

[unique rune]

I would expect them to have a centralized one that sets at least some basic standards with the rest managed by more local jurisdiction

[hardy swan]

Man I hate to be a Harvester if I have to learn about farming only

[empty bloom]

The OPSEC Officer in my head is currently screaming in agony

[spice crystal]

Can anyone tell my why there isnt any brutes in halo reach? Im pretty sure its the same reason why as halo CE (the fleet of particular justice was run by V'adamee and he didnt like the brutes) but im not 100% sure because I thought there were multiple fleets at reach.

Just lmk if im right.

[hardy swan]

They were too big to fit inside the ship

[spice crystal]

No there were phantoms not just spirits

[carmine sleet]

How far are you into Reach?

[spice crystal]

Oh ive beat it multiple times

[carmine sleet]

Oh

[spice crystal]

I just dont recall seeing them

[carmine sleet]

There are Brutes, they first appear on Exodus

[spice crystal]

Ok ill look. Thank you.

[spice crystal]

Omg im an idiot

I forgot that was halo reach

Lol

I havent slept in 3 days

[carmine sleet]

Please go sleep

[spice crystal]

Im good.

Im going for a PR

[hardy swan]

Does anyone know if it’s canon that all grunts speak like they breathe Helium or can they sound different

[vivid tundra]

When is bungie going to come back to developing halo again?

[dusk jetty]

You say that like they have a responsibility to

[vivid tundra]

If Microsoft wants halo to thrive, they need bungie

[unique rune]

they need a studio that’s basically a shell of its former self where many of the people that led Halo’s original development haven’t even worked at for like 10-20 years now?

[hardy swan]

What

👎

[vivid tundra]

Yes

[hardy swan]

If Microsoft wants Halo to thrive they need multiple studios working on different titles at the same time

So we get a more consistent game release

[unique rune]

I mean I guess if by “thrive” you mean “rebooted into yet another extraction shooter” we need Bungie back sure

[vivid tundra]

No

[hardy swan]

Yes

[vivid tundra]

We need game improvement not more games

[hardy swan]

Halo extraction shooter would be cool

[vivid tundra]

I like the slow game release factor

[hardy swan]

Escape from Reach or something

[vivid tundra]

Ur trippin

[hardy swan]

Ok

[vivid tundra]

Yes

[unique rune]

clinging to a studio name for nostalgia’s sake isn’t gonna lead to game improvement lmao

[vivid tundra]

It’s not nostalgia bro, the games were definitely better when under bungies influence

You act like 343 is doing better

[unique rune]

then tell me what modern day Bungie would do better for Halo

[vivid tundra]

You guys are just to uneducated I guess

[vivid tundra]

Better cosmetics, better maps

Better everything

More creative

I honesty don’t understand how halo 5 has better maps than halo infinite

[unique rune]

let’s bring current Bungie back to Halo and see where we get

I’m sure Destiny and the Marathon reboot aren’t indicative of what they would do at all

no siree

[vivid tundra]

You’re just jealous

[latent junco]

If you wanna play Bungie Halo, MCC exists.
They're not coming back to development of the games
And imo the 343/HS games are genuinely better anyway
Better movement and weapon sandboxes in basically all of them at the very least, plus I like the more polished artstyle a lot better

[hardy swan]

Just wait till 2026 when we get the first news of Halo 7 okay

[vivid tundra]

Have you seen the halo armor and cosmetics?

Bro

…

[hardy swan]

Blue team cosmetics just arrived

[vivid tundra]

Not good

[unique rune]

idgaf which are better I just fail to see how bringing Bungie back helps anyone

Bungie quit developing Halo because they didn’t want to develop Halo anymore

[vivid tundra]

We need more are that takes a while to grind for

[latent junco]

Yes.
I'm not saying I hate all the old cosmetics, but I also really like the new ones

[vivid tundra]

I enjoyed the Achilles grind from halo 5

[vivid tundra]

Wellllll 343 needs to get a bigger team or something cuz like

Otherwise this ship is sinking

[unique rune]

good for you

other people have other things in their lives to attend to and just want to get the cosmetics they like in a timely manner

[hardy swan]

Most of Halo Studios now are focusing on the next projects

[vivid tundra]

It’s better to enjoy and experience the game, don’t rush and whip out moms card

[vivid tundra]

Yeah I know

[hardy swan]

But yeah I agree the fact that moving on the their own game engine kinda killed Infinites future so much so they rebranded

[unique rune]

I dunno why I’m even wasting time on this

[vivid tundra]

Yeah bro why are you

We ain’t need the negativity

[unique rune]

nah you do

[hardy swan]

You’re the hater here m8

[vivid tundra]

Nope

[hardy swan]

What did 343 do to you

[vivid tundra]

I love halo but I’m providing constructive criticism

Nothing but they need to improve

[hardy swan]

Storyline?

I just feel like it’s a bit lacklustre having to wait 7 years for every new title

[latent junco]

I, personally, have over 1900 hours on Infinite, and it's by far my favorite Halo I've played.
I get people's issues with it, and cosmetics being paywalled and stuff, but like, you literally don't need to buy a single thing to play the game, and there's a very decent share of free cosmetics already too

[hardy swan]

Free MkIv armor is neat

[dusk jetty]

We need more microtransactions

#bringbackbungie

[hardy swan]

Tencent agent over here

[vivid tundra]

I ain’t got a problem with paying money, but there is nothing to buy, I wanna look cool :c

[dusk jetty]

Tencent doesn’t delete past content

You think the mtx is bad now just wait until destiny 3

[unique rune]

I feel like there’s a real solution to a lot of the problems with the gaming industry that 343/HS has repeatedly suffered from but destroying capitalism has become an increasingly difficult task

[vivid tundra]

The only thing I got that I really like is the haunted helmet but even then, the inability to change visors or anything kinda annoying

[hardy swan]

The inability for me to get a Jerome skin for my MkIv pisses me off as well

I can’t get 092 numbers together

[dusk jetty]

It’s in the spirit of fire operation

[latent junco]

There's a lot of things imo
Yea not everyone has the same armor tastes, but there's tons and tons of armors in Infinite
And I'm not gonna pretend like I haven't bought my fair share of stuff, but it's all been stuff I've personally liked

[hardy swan]

What

[dusk jetty]

The Jerome skin

For MkIV

[hardy swan]

Why didn’t anybody tell me

I mean you are

[dusk jetty]

Wait let me check it wasn’t a weekly

[latent junco]

There was a weekly for Jerome's coating ages ago
It'll come back in the Exchange at some point

[hardy swan]

Aw

[dusk jetty]

It’s a weekly so you don’t have to buy it

[unique rune]

wooooo ammunition subscriptions here we come

[dusk jetty]

When it does come back

[carmine sleet]

Don't forget paying to drive the tank

Which like, they really did create a tank for D2 and then barely used it for the rest of the game's expansions

[high elbow]

You start raids with half ammo, but with Destiny+, you and your fireteam all start with full ammo AND 1,000 glimmer per successful raid

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah I was going for tone and mood here, lol

But I could honestly see UNSC/PDF troops have such poor morale at that point in the war that they just don’t care enough to hide it.

[sonic lagoon]

Can a 75mm tank shell damage a scorpion?

[high elbow]

No

Tank beats everything so a 75mm won’t do anything

[spice crystal]

The Ark dialogue

Check out my post thing on IWHBYD

[high elbow]

Oh I’m well aware it’s just dialogue. I was just being unhelpful

[spark pivot]

Yes

[spark pivot]

By this logic tank also beats tank

[hardy swan]

Depends if the tank is stock and hasn’t researched the good rounds yet

[spark pivot]

War thunder player lol?

[spice crystal]

It depends if player 1 is driving or a marine.

[thorn ember]

Giant robot counts as a tank right?

[wispy pewter]

that depends, does it have wheels

[spice crystal]

Its a transformer

[thorn ember]

I could also mention Megas XLR.

[spare kite]

Thats.......just not true lol. Unless you want Destiny gameplay with Halo cosmetics there is no "saving" Halo. This idea that 343 is ruining Halo, and that Bungie wouldnt be in the same boat is absolutely asinine, because Halo isnt failing because its a bad game. Halo is failing because the gaming market does not want arena shooters THATS IT. It doesnt matter whose at the helm, because Halo being an arena shooter is the issue, and we knew of this all the way back with Halo 3.

Halo had years building up a community on Xbox, had basically no competition on console, and was about to release its third game which to this day is probably one of the most hyped and anticipated games ever released, and yet it still went neck and neck against CoD a series that prior to CoD4 was predominantly a pc game. Halo being at the top no longer became a fact once CoD4, and MW2 released, and we know of this because the entire gaming market shifted once those two games were released. Now not only did they have a direct competitor on their very own console no less, but players on all platforms now favored the arcade fps genre over the arena fps genre, and thats what caused the downfall of Halo.

As such to say that Halo wouldn't be in the state thats it in now if Bungie was at the helm completely misses the point that Halo’s biggest issue post CoD4 isnt that it has bad gameplay or a bad story, its that people simply dont want arena shooters.

[hot zodiac]

Halo is failing because the gaming market does not want arena shooters THATS IT.

More factually incorrect information from the Halo server? I'm shocked!

[steel aurora]

I mean…

[wispy pewter]

I mean it's kinda true

people want more fortnite

[empty bloom]

You know what, Fortnite borrows from arena shooter philosophy.

:>

[ivory stump]

Does the UNSC actively research on Covenant Weapons?

Like sort of reverse engineering their tech and vice versa

[unique rune]

They have but there’s been relatively few practical applications of it

[carmine sleet]

It's also not exactly cheap to do either, considering how much more advanced Covenant weapons are compared to humanity's. And while we have seen prototypes as far back in the war as 2531 (Plasma Rhinos on Arcadia), it's clear it's not technology humanity is ready to adopt for more widespread usage considering that plasma based weapons made by humanity still isn't common in 2560

[empty bloom]

Do you want the short 'feel good' answer or the long 'This is actually something I care about' answer.

Because it's either yes or yes*.

[hardy swan]

They got years do to that but they always stick to the old peashooter 7.62x51 slingers

It’s so annoying

Railgun is cool

[spare kite]

Except it isnt. Explain to me how Cod went from being a predominetly pc centric game, and that their first actual console release already rivaled Halo 3, and that its second release surpassed Halo 3. With the gaming market completelt changing by favoring arcade shooters over arena shooters. CoD did in 1 release what took Halo 3 releases, and you wanna tell me that im wrong? Yea get the hell outta here lol.

[hardy swan]

Because call of duty is fun

[hot zodiac]

The children don't remember Call of Duty 2 on Xbox 360

[spare kite]

Good thing im not talking about Cod 2

[carmine sleet]

The railgun wasn't made based on Covenant tech, it's basically a smaller version of a MAC cannon. And the UNSC still using ballistic weaponry is most likely due to how it's still a viable option for combat, even with the Covenant's technological advantage

And like, even if the UNSC had plasma based weaponry out of the prototype phase, I imagine they'd still be rare

[hardy swan]

Yeah I know but it’s a human made weapon that canonically can kill brutes in one shot and it’s a favourite of mine

But then the standard infantry weapon are guns that can apparently kill Spartans in one mag because that’s how— er

Spoilers

[hardy swan]

Hope Halo 7 has new human weapons

[hardy swan]

Remember when activision was making a Halo killer

And then it disappeared forever

Because big bosses wanted Modern Warfare instead I think

[spare kite]

Best decision they ever made. Toppled Halo as the defacto console fps and, completely shifted the gaming landscape.

[carmine sleet]

Most weapons can kill Brutes, it's not like Brutes are immune to bullets

[carmine sleet]

Can you please stop intentionally saying things which can spoil things for people who still haven't had the chance to read the new book. Seriously, it feels like you're doing it intentionally

[empty bloom]

Research=/=Producing

[carmine sleet]

Like, I've already had to deal with the fact my copy of Empty Throne has been delayed multiple times, almost everyone else here is much more respectful about not spoiling things

[empty bloom]

Logistics is a major factor. It's why the primary weapons humanity picked up from the Covenant are ship-based and fit with UNSC doctrine.

[carmine sleet]

Indeed

[empty bloom]

Of course, people would rather wonder why the UNSC doesn't have (Short-ranged and effectively only good within eyewhite range) plasma weapons when their doctrine is hitting as far away as hard as possible.

You're more likely to see the UNSC adopt Beam Rifles before you see them even consider having a plasma rifle equivelant.

Also like why the hell would you bother reverse-engineering Covenant Tech except as an intermediate stage when forerunner weapons outright ignore armor and can disintigrate a full-sized elite in milliseconds, while firing literal light

[hardy swan]

Yeah gameplay wise the bouncy ball gun is superior to any Covie gun

[empty bloom]

Like this thing exists

(Halo 5 human Hardlight shotgun)

[empty bloom]

Canon wise, you mean.

Like, Halo 4, pretty much every precision is better than the Lightrifle and the Suppressor is too situational to really be considered 'good'.

But in canon both are likely why IVs die a lot, because they both are supposed to outright ignore shields and armor.

[hardy swan]

You know energy beam weaponry is something that should be a thing. Idk maybe the UNSC can borrow a starfleet pistol and reverse engineer it

[empty bloom]

Particle Beams, so Beam Rifles, are a thing. And the UNSC already uses beam weaponry.

Most post-war UNSC frigates swapped their bulky MACs for Pulse Lasers and such.

[hardy swan]

I know the s laser exist

[hardy swan]

Afaik only one cruiser has this

[empty bloom]

And you'd know wrong.

[hardy swan]

The Panama and Mortal Reverie

What is they ship called again

Hmmm

[empty bloom]

The entire Mulsanne Class Frigate line uses a laser as a primary weapon.

The Anlace class uses 3 different types of lasers.

[hardy swan]

Yeah and it didn’t dent a Covie cruiser

[dusk jetty]

A covenant cruiser has shields

Like this was a whole thing in naval doctrine

[hardy swan]

you’d think that’s the reason energy weapons were developed for

[empty bloom]

Plasma and lasers aren't meant for shields.

[dusk jetty]

Yeah, one single pulse laser shot isn’t going to take down a CAS carriers shields

[empty bloom]

They're meant to shoot everything, not just shields.

[hardy swan]

Erm hello the MAC fires a tungsten round capable of penetrating Covie shielding but their latest beam weapon can’t?

[empty bloom]

The MAC literally has never once been capable of penetrating Covenant shielding.

[dusk jetty]

It cant penetrate the shield

That’s a super mac

[carmine sleet]

They have to bring down the shields to use the MAC

[empty bloom]

It breaks it, and sometimes even has momentum behind it to break more than just shields, but it's not meant to penetrate the shields, just hit the target.

[dusk jetty]

Completely different and completely impractical for ship use

[hardy swan]

o

Wait then did Didacts ship have shields when the Infinity made a hole

[empty bloom]

The Infinity has guns that are stronger than an ODP's Super MAC.

Because MACs are a classification of weapon, not a specific weapon.

[dusk jetty]

The infinity is only capable of that because it won’t go flying off in zero gravity from that round tonnage

[hardy swan]

Right because the Infinity clearly can also one shot Banished ships

[empty bloom]

Each frigate, cruiser, et cetera uses a slightly different model meant for that ship class, with the MACs on the Infinity being uniquely powerful due to being effectively custom-built.

[empty bloom]

It literally turns a cruiser to dust.

[dusk jetty]

It did over zeta

[empty bloom]

So... Yes, it can.

[dusk jetty]

Twice actually

[empty bloom]

It also did it over Reach lmao

[hardy swan]

Yeah in the book it took down one or two before getting crushed

[dusk jetty]

Two dreadnoughts fell before they boarded the infinity

In an ambush nonetheless

Pretty damn impressive

[empty bloom]

Also like, ODPs already could onetap most Covenant and Covenant-derivative ships.

[hardy swan]

Damn man they probably should use those Macs more often. Maybe replace the orbital MACs with them

[ivory stump]

the second one

[empty bloom]

What part of 'custom' is hard to parse

The Infinity literally only manages it because it uses a non-standard power source.

[hardy swan]

So even trough shielding

Because they use missiles to destroy shields

[empty bloom]

Read Fall of Reach.

Literally just read freaking Fall of Reach.

[hardy swan]

[empty bloom]

This is foundational Halo stuff, dude, lmao

[dusk jetty]

Erod class odps too, the ones over earth like Malta and Cairo were even heavier

[ivory stump]

Does balisitc rounds actually do anything onto covenant shields?

[hardy swan]

I assume they went in front of the ships bow because those MACa are built in and can’t rotate like a turret

[spare kite]

what do u mean by anything?

[ivory stump]

damaging covenant shield

[hardy swan]

You can kill a shielded Elite with the MA5

[spare kite]

Yes. Covenant shields arent so advanced as to make them impervious to UNSC firearms, and armaments.

[ivory stump]

No i mean like depleting a Covenant battleship shield

[dusk jetty]

Yes

Low tonnage rounds do deplete it, just incrementally and slowly.

[empty bloom]

Alright. So basically, the UNSC took absolutely any and all opportunities to gather, and gleefully play with the innards of, Covenant technology; Blue Team, along with pretty much every other special forces team, were explicitly told to gather as much Covenant tech as humanly possible at all times for reverse-engineering and testing.

You had functional plasma mortar prototypes as early as the first half-decade of the Human Covenant war, which swiftly phased back out of use (They were experimental) due to not really fitting in with UNSC doctrine and being prohibitively expensive to continue producing compared to more conventional weaponry of the time for the UNSC, which was both being mass-produced and mass-distributed, and logistics take time to retool and alter-time and resources the UNSC did not have when it was fighting against its imminent annihilation.

So the UNSC kept researching tech and utilizing it in small amounts where it could, but mostly these just influenced passive improvements to small-scale tech like MJOLNIR and shielding, with most useful information being distributed but not utilized in tech for various logistical and practical reasons. Post-war, the breathing room and freer access to tech allowed for them to better utilize the research they had done, and thus utilize more human-derived Covenant weapon equivalents in sparing frontline use when they could.

[ivory stump]

Since like lemme remember
In Reach gameplay you're supposed to deplete a Seraph shield with Machine cannon before firing missiles?

[carmine sleet]

Aye, they aren't Dalek levels of effective at stopping bullets

[dusk jetty]

That’s the recommended method yes

You can also spam missiles

[carmine sleet]

You can use the missiles to do it too, but it takes more time to do so (I tried it once)

[hardy swan]

Missiles

[dusk jetty]

That’s how most of the navy took out covenant ships when they did, take out the shields with mac rounds, do as much damage as you can with missiles and any other weapons

[empty bloom]

Additionally, Covenant weapons make sense for the Covenant's (Absolutely braindead) tactics and strategies, but the UNSC's troops are squishier and less aggressive; So they tend to utilize different tactics that don't work well with Covenant tech, which is typically short-ranged despite the lethality.

[dusk jetty]

Or if you had enough ships, one takes out the shields, the others fire with their Mac’s

[hardy swan]

Maybe their doctrine should be anything that can make alien die quicker

[empty bloom]

That is literally their doctrine.

[hardy swan]

3 for 1 was what it was like early in the war

[empty bloom]

But to kill something quickly, you need to be alive to kill that thing quickly.

[ivory stump]

Then again in practice, most Sabre pilot would fire the cannom before using the missile

[dusk jetty]

Yeah and its usually in the covenants favor number wise anyway

[empty bloom]

And that means putting as much real estate as humanly possible between you and the 8 foot tall alien with a laser sword.

[dusk jetty]

So why would they win much, if any naval battles

And they did win a few

[hardy swan]

Makes me wonder why the Scorpion uses that tiny barrel 90mm
Just fit a mini Mac or something because gauss guns do exist

[ivory stump]

Practicality efficency over Pure firepower ig

[hardy swan]

The NOVA bomb is so interesting because one of those literally wiped an entire covenant fleet off the Milky Way

[empty bloom]

Answer A, Bungie didn't think of it at the time.

Answer B, conventional 90mm rounds still work, and there was no warfare reason to actually shift the weapon over.

[spare kite]

They couldnt field the Grizzlie enough for it to be relevant. A gauss tank? Yea no shot lol

[empty bloom]

There is literally a gauss-toting MBT in Halo Wars.

Though, calling it an MBT is... Wrong.

It's more of an SPG.

[hardy swan]

Twin barrelled wheely boi

[dusk jetty]

It was an emplacement if anything

[dusk jetty]

Shame we didn’t have these in new Alexandria

[ivory stump]

If we were to use Mini MAC cannon on Scorpions then the UNSC would have to assess the efficiency in combat

[spare kite]

Yes my point though is that they were so expensive and resource extensive as to make them hard to field. Penguin was implying that the UNSC should just retrofit Scorpions with gauss capability, when 1: The UNSC has vehicles like that, and 2: They arent widespread for a reason.

[hardy swan]

Would be better than mechs beacause why do mechs even exist either than the cool factor

They are huge walking targets without shielding technology

The prototype was cool because it had bubble shielding

[ivory stump]

You mean either the Mantis or the Cyborg

[empty bloom]

Mechs in most franchises tend to have an actual reason to exist beyond just 'mech cool', but yeah.

Halo's mechs kinda suck.

[spare kite]

not kinda they do suck lol

[empty bloom]

Nah, just kinda. The Mantis is still neat, just ineffecient.

[ivory stump]

The Mantis imo is kinda ok ish as a defensive option

Like holding down against an attack

[hardy swan]

Like a more effective mech would be the ones from Avatar because they got arms that can MMA fight brutes

[empty bloom]

The real strength of a mech in most franchises that care to actually treat them as something other than 'tall tank' is mostly agility and mobility, as while they can't go as fast, they can go in smaller places, take cover, and act like oversized infantry.

That's assuming, of course, the people responsible for said Franchise don't decide to suddenly make them like twice as tall as they should be according to canon because 'spectacle'.

I'm looking at you, Battletech.

[spare kite]

So basically the Cyclops lol

[empty bloom]

The MkII Cyclops moves like the Mantis should.

So, yes.

[hardy swan]

I forgot the cyclops existed

[spare kite]

Ive had this opinion for the longest time that the Cyclops are better than the Mantis

[empty bloom]

Worse armament, better design.

[spare kite]

Now they would have to R&D it to make it more combat effective, but its design is way better

[hardy swan]

Do they have giant machine guns to use

[empty bloom]

Though, thanks to Megabloks being canon, there are a ton of different, and better, uses for the Cyclops.

[ivory stump]

Now imagine the next Halo where they combine the best of both thing of the Mantis and Cyclops

At least give it some nice 12.7mm rounds

[spare kite]

basically what Johnson wore in his dlc for Halo Wars 2 lol

[hardy swan]

You know those Avatar mechs where they carry giant guns? Yeah

[spare kite]

Imo u cant really do much with the Mantis since the design is so bad

[empty bloom]

The newer Cyclopes come in such fun flavors as

'Riot control'
'Sniper'
'Flamethrower'
'Voltaic'
'Strike' (I think this one is just faster or something IDK)
'TWO Flamethrowers'

[ivory stump]

But the machine guns has to be in 12.7x108mm

[hardy swan]

Nah why. 50 cal it should be a cannon

Like 20mm or 30mm

[empty bloom]

In HW2 it'd be roughly that size.

[spare kite]

It is kinda crazy that the Scorpion is just as tall as the Mantis

[hardy swan]

It seems like tank doctrine changed in the future because they went back to Maus sized tanks

And quad tracks

Ugh

[spare kite]

You know what

[ivory stump]

What vehicles in Halo Lore would be considered as
Not capable of combat?

[spare kite]

Take away all UNSC armor and replace them with cyclops varients. I see this as a win

[hardy swan]

But I guess it makes sense considering that only one person is needed to control the entire scorpion

[strange pumice]

Regular mangoose?
I guess?

[hardy swan]

Scorpion? Idk man a big target like that is asking for it to be bombed

It’s going to have the thermal signature of the Incredible Hulk

And the fact that we already have 120mm and 130mm cannons but in 500 years they downgrade to the 90mm which btw does not fit the UNSC doctrine mentioned above

[empty bloom]

Yeeeeaaaaaah.

There's a reason the M820 makes more sense than the M808, lmao

[carmine sleet]

Halo 5 Scorpion please come back

[spare kite]

The Oni variants are my fave

[carmine sleet]

I wish they came up with new look for the Hannibal variant's main cannon. I get why it's identical from a game design perspective but still, it would've been cool if they came up with a new main cannon design for it

[stoic hamlet]

Hannibal one is my fav. More DEW platforms being commonplace would be really nice.

[thorn ember]

Though Mantis and Scorpion are cheaper to make than a full fledged Colossus.

[thorn ember]

They probably slowed progress on weapon development in favor of space travel once the slipspace drive was created.

[empty bloom]

I wouldn't even bother trying to understand Halonomics.

[thorn ember]

Lore is complicated enough as is. If I add the economics I'd be getting a migraine the size of Reach.

[spice crystal]

Im trying to start to get into the economics of it

[sonic lagoon]

What exactly are Executors?

As compared to Spartans in armor.

[hardy swan]

I think since humanity was just doing a lot of infighting and stuff like that weapon technology didn’t really needed improvement or progress when you’re fighting rebels

[latent junco]

(Afaik, don't fully quote me on it, since I havent read anything on them in ages) they're basically cyborg like machines created and programmed by the AI Sloane to be a Spartan equivalent/better than Spartan military force during the Created rebellion

Again, I'm not 110% sure, but I think that's roughly what they are

[sonic lagoon]

What happened to the Rh'tol brutes after Halo 2?

[empty bloom]

Well, they're straight up cyborgs and the people who're used to make them usually are not volunteers. But otherwise, yeah.

[latent junco]

Yea

[orchid kettle]

If I had to bet on it, I'd assume Executors would be treated as a higher threat than Janissaries but our Spartan heroes would still win because blah blah the human spirit, main character plot armor, blah blah

This is of course contingent on Executors appearing in a story at all. Even if you take something like operation key art as canon, then the most that's going on with them is that one attacked some IMC/ONI facility and killed a couple guys in OSTEO.

But I wouldn't be surprised if that scenario is just like, yet another Sloan simulation and not an actual event.

[empty bloom]

Who knows? The Executor certainly doesn't.

[obsidian thistle]

I do wonder if the Executor will remain a one off

Or if others exist but failed in some way or another due to lack of prior insanity

[carmine sleet]

I hope there does end up being more, give them a storyline akin to the Cybermen from Tennant's first time facing them

[obsidian thistle]

I do however like the idea of an AI boogeyman

[carmine sleet]

Well... My copy of Empty Throne has been delayed... Again...

It's now gonna be here on April 1st...

[empty bloom]

It has the opportunity to do the funniest thing ever.

Show up as a copy of Halo Fall of Reach instead.

[carmine sleet]

https://tenor.com/view/dandadan-anime-momo-ayase-okarun-ken-takakura-gif-1624990033878390232

I already have a copy of Fall of Reach!

[carmine sleet]

I DO READ THEM

[empty bloom]

Well, you're trying to

Lmao

[carmine sleet]

https://tenor.com/view/blank-stare-wallace-and-gromit-penguin-wallace-and-gromit-penguin-gif-1694043654178124794

[stoic hamlet]

Not the rerelease either, but the og version.

[spice crystal]

Lol have it be a parody like "spooderman"

[unborn patrol]

which would make a for a better steak. a precursor or a forerunner?

[dusty pilot]

guys when tartarus threatened miranda near the end of Halo 2, "which is nothing compared to what ill do to you"

idk what he was implying?!?

[spice crystal]

Eating her slowly

[hardy swan]

Nom nom

[dusty pilot]

eating her how?

[hardy swan]

How else do you eat someone

[wispy pewter]

Brutes like to do horrible things to their victims

[empty bloom]

Mostly ripping them apart sadistically.

[dusty pilot]

for miranda, the range is quite brutal

[hardy swan]

For anyone really

[stoic hamlet]

Everyone knows you smoke your meat to get the best flavours.

[empty bloom]

Brutes, of course, being tasteless and losing much of their culinary experience in the nuclear aftermath of their own civil wars, does not understand the finer points of multicultural cooking talent and thus simply insist their food is best seared and unseasoned.

[bronze prawn]

Its crazy how midly advanced the brutes were before nuking the sh-- out of each other

[empty bloom]

Just say crap, dude.

[bronze prawn]

wheres the fun that

[hardy swan]

They were once smart enough to figure out nuclear fission

[empty bloom]

I say this as a joke but like, realistically speaking I'm probably right.

[south matrix]

Who’s more brutal? Lev Kravchenko (COD Black Ops) with Spartan Enhancements or a Brute?

[empty bloom]

Whoever the writer thinks is brutal.

[wispy pewter]

Parongosky

[spice crystal]

Who would win? Blue team and noble 6 or every surviving spartan 4

[wispy pewter]

you do know there are at the very least a couple dozen SIVs remaining right

before 2560 there was 300 onboard the Infinity

I am going to assume there is somewhere between 3-500 remaining

[orchid kettle]

They've been real hesitant to reveal how many IVs there are, and even the 300 number is technically in reference to how many armor assembly rigs they have

[wispy pewter]

so many died in Zeta Halo it's crazy

and then 70 at laconia

they keep coming

[orchid kettle]

Yeah but while its likely the Infinity was the single largest contingent of Spartans, it wasn't all of them

if you take the encyclopedia super seriously, then any character who holds the title of Spartan Commander has 300 spartans under them

though I feel like that's an error because Buck was a Commander himself on the Meriwether Lewis, which is just a stalwart-class frigate.

And 300 Spartans sounds like a lot for one frigate.

I imagine Spartans as like the 26th century equivalent of medieval knights, where they need a whole retinue of squires and pages and servants

Or in their case, medical and armor technicians

[carmine sleet]

Also like, the idea that they've been mostly wiped out as of Infinite doesn't really make sense

Like, look at the Academy, we know they're training IVs there, and Anvil Station has a contengent of IVs as well

[orchid kettle]

Plenty of other ships would have had Spartan contingents too

[carmine sleet]

Indeed

[hardy swan]

Yeah every Spartan has a bunch of eggheads making sure their Mjolnir doesn’t breakdown

[wispy pewter]

sounds very crampy

[carmine sleet]

That's not a "crampy" issue, that's a logistical issue as the Frigates likely don't have the space to support carrying that many Spartans alongside everything else they traditionally carry

[orchid kettle]

Its why I assume its a mistake, and they were only really thinking about Palmer when they wrote down that description

[carmine sleet]

Aye, which would make sense

[wispy pewter]

Also having 300 of your best of the best troops in one unshielded old frigate isn't a good idea as well

[orchid kettle]

It would like only work if the frigate's whole deal is that it was exclusively for carrying Spartans

and even then it sounds real silly to have 300 guys on a ship that only has 24 drop pod bays

[wispy pewter]

oh god I miss the UNSC Infinity already

[stoic hamlet]

In Empty Throne we learn the Valiant-class Cruiser Victory of Samothrace has ||hundreds of IV’s aboard|| as well.

[stoic hamlet]

Just like Astartes in 40K. They’re “self sufficient” because they have hundreds of thousands of regular humans specifically bonded to their chapters, serving as everything from cooks, administrators, armour and weapon technicians, and even security forces.

As the recent chronicle said, Spartans have hundreds of people that come together to get them into the field. There’d be at least a dozen or so technicians and medical personnel for each individual on every ship, because you’d need that many to keep them in fighting shape.

[carmine sleet]

So in other words, the UNSC isn't running out of Spartan IVs any time soon

[stoic hamlet]

Not that we can see, no.

[orchid kettle]

Give Atriox some time

[carmine sleet]

Good

[carmine sleet]

Atriox when he's dropped into the Academy for a day /j

[empty bloom]

So... At least one thousand highly capable personnel wearing equivalent armor, trained by Spartan IIs and IIIs, in a situation where Spartans typically lose-fighting numerically superior foes with similar capabilities.

Gee. I wonder.

[stoic hamlet]

Clearly the winner is whoever gets to watch.

[spice crystal]

Lol

[stoic hamlet]

But yeah, as Trench implies, it’s kind of a non-question.

[dusk jetty]

Thermopylae moment

[obsidian thistle]

Going back to the Buck thing. I grown to the idea that Spartan Commander may be adjustable pending the rotation

[orchid kettle]

I assume you only really need a Commander when you have enough teams for multiple mission handlers

[obsidian thistle]

So Buck technically may have been more akin to a Mission Hand... yea

That sorta thing

[orchid kettle]

otherwise Im not too sure what Commanders do besides give speeches

[obsidian thistle]

Plus most sources that give the 300 number...

Are in Infinity based ones

Its also possible that Buck was Spartan Commander for Spartans tied to a fleet/area

And not just one single ship

[orchid kettle]

How units operate when they're split amongst a fleet is something I've wondered about

especially when somebody pulls a Miranda and goes off chasing the enemy into the great unknown all by herself

[woven plaza]

i wonder if lord hood is still gettin smashed on some random planet
@empty bloom 🍻

[obsidian thistle]

The UNSC Infinity is a unique case.

I doubt many Spartan Commanders will be in the fortunate scenario to have most her Spartans in 1 place

[orchid kettle]

The vibe I get as well is that Fireteams get shuffled around a lot

unless you wanna consider Halo 5 Spartan Companies canon

[obsidian thistle]

I did get that vibe seeing as Apollo was everywhere in the fiction

[orchid kettle]

but otherwise their status as Hero characters for lack of a better term feels like it means they can hop around wherever the plot needs them without being too attached to a particular larger unit

[obsidian thistle]

I am glad 343i made it clear Spartans werent just on Infinity

[marble lion]

There are a fair number of Spartans units across UNSC areas. Not just Infinity, but Earth and other colony worlds.

[tepid cliff]

I was thinking maybe thinking of making both a humorous and informative lore video for the majority of Halo players who are both old school and new who haven’t delved much into the expanded universe and only played the games + watched stuff like Halo Legends after being inspired from watching another video for a different franchise

[stoic hamlet]

Go for it! The more the merrier, really.

[tepid cliff]

I was mainly inspired by this video, and feel like doing something similar but for Halo with the Human-Covenant War and before that (and plenty of memes) https://youtu.be/YAyvt6NTbb0?si=6M_U6n2pc7OPUBee

[stoic hamlet]

I wish you luck!

[tepid cliff]

Thanks, and yeah I meant to say I’m thinking of doing the whole war and not just the end of it from the games’ POV

[hardy swan]

Still waiting

[tepid cliff]

?

[steady wedge]

How will the spartan 5 program be

I've been wondering about that

[hardy swan]

Genetic engineering

[orchid kettle]

May not be any need since IVs are a thing and are basically as ethically sourced and super as you need supersoldiers to be.

Beyond like, a substantial enough leap in augmentation technology that warrants calling them something different. But a big part of the reason the IIs and IIIs were kids was because in Halo, augs just worked better on them until now.

[unique rune]

Spartan-V will just be five surviving Orion personnel stacked on each other

[hardy swan]

So the OdST from the Halo 2 cutscene is still alive

[obsidian thistle]

I dont think its needed. 343i/HS kinda been pushing Spartan harder than Spartan-IV.

So much that I think the generation distinction will vanish and be more like...

There is a new augmentation procedure. You are a Spartan.

[stoic hamlet]

We do see elements of the generations still being a thing, like, logically it would still factor in until all II’s and III’s are dead, but yeah, they’ve very much dropped the overt mention of the generations with most things.

I’m reminded of one of the 40K books, which has the newer Primaris marines discuss how humans can’t tell them apart, but the older marines still obviously can.

One mentions that the older marines think the Primaris are there to replace them, (which they are), and he looks at it rather sardonically, sadly, as “they think all Primaris are meant to replace Firstborn.”

But the second responds that yes, they are meant to replace the firstborn… but simply as new recruits replacing veterans. No distinction of generation or augmentations, just simple attrition taking its due.

[empty bloom]

"They seek to replace us, Brother!"
'... We literally replaced the Sergeants and Captains who trained us when we were scouts too, the hel are you talking about?'

[stoic hamlet]

Well, these two were part of the unnumbered legion, the guys kept in status for millennia. They didn’t go through the traditional scout>devastator>tactical>assault pipeline.

[empty bloom]

I was more making a point about the attrition thing. We're all replacements of someone.

The actual form being slightly different is irrelevant. I replace my father, he replaced his father, et cetera.

I replace my Sergeant replaced his Sergeant et cetera.

Astartes being too proud to really 'understand' basic militaria and logic like that is pretty par for the course though

[spare kite]

Basically the 4's are what Halsey talks about when she says that her spartans are humanities next stop. Ironic considering that she likes the 4's the least.

[hardy swan]

She meant HER Spartans

She didn’t think the IVs lived up to her creations

Alibaba versions

That is why Thorne asked whether the IVs have what it takes to be Spartans

And then she said “perhaps some of you are closer” or something

[spice crystal]

The spartan IVs are essentially maleshift spartans. They werent hers because she didnt create them.

[stoic hamlet]

She has the same attitude towards the III’s. She’s very particular, ahd very biased. And often very wrong.

[wispy pewter]

If you mean makeshift, I wouldn't say so. Even though weaker it's also safer

[empty bloom]

Halsey's entire attitude towards the 3s can be summed up with one image.

[plucky mantle]

Saw an interesting Reddit post regarding the Primordial

Remember how the Primordial told some ancient humans something so horrific that they checked themselves off the census? The post I read postulates that he may have presented them with a variation of Roko’s Basilisk

[empty bloom]

So basically, they hit them with a cognitohazard?

[plucky mantle]

Sort of?

[empty bloom]

Personally, I always felt that Pascal's Wager and similar concepts were performative at best, but the concept of a lethal cognitohazard such as that is something I always found silly given our understanding of the universe.

That said, I'm pretty solidly convinced that the Primordial, the Flood, and the Precursors are all literally the exact same organism(s) writ large a'la replicators from Stargate, with the "Precursors" being a sort of 'end state' and the 'flood' being the evolutionary 'gray goo' that led to the precursors forming in the first place.

So either the precursors themselves are mimetic organisms or something akin to nanites in my mind, or both.

[plucky mantle]

That’s kinda neat

So you believe it’s like a cycle?

[empty bloom]

Less a cycle, more that the Forerunners broke something that can't be fixed.

Not truly.

Like, to use a metaphor, it's like... Starting Ragnarok.

[sturdy socket]

master chief is a human

[empty bloom]

No matter what happens, Yggdrasil is still broken and splintered.

[plucky mantle]

I think I understand

Mostly

[empty bloom]

It's less like the Forerunners really 'reset' the Precursors and more like brutalized them, and regressed them to a divergent path of what they could've been-The Flood.

[plucky mantle]

Yeah that makes a little more sense

I enjoy occasionally contemplating what it is that the Primordial told the ancient humans about the Flood. It’s my favourite piece of Halo lore

Like, what truth could be so horrific that dying is a better alternative than living with the knowledge

[empty bloom]

I'm telling you dude, it's the most badass blueberry pie recipe to ever exist.

[plucky mantle]

A lot of people like to say that the Primordial told the humans that there was no cure, but that’s not really horrific. Like, it sucks, but it’s kind of plain

[empty bloom]

The human scientists didn't even know what a blueberry was but the recipe was so solid that it didn't matter. Knowing they'd never have it was torture enough.

[plucky mantle]

Lmao

Okay that’s actually funny when you put it like that

[empty bloom]

If I had to guess it was basically the standard logic plague type coersion; So it's less that what was said was horrifying so much as inarguable.

Like, Logic Plague is 99% a form of manipulation and the Gravemind (And by extension, the Primordial) making a really damn good argument.

[plucky mantle]

Based on the wiki, the humans asked the Primordial questions about the flood, and the answers led to most of them checking themselves off the census

[empty bloom]

I wager it was mostly some variety of "I am inevitable, we are inevitable, so why wait? Why bother?"

Like the flood profits off of the suffering of its victims, so telling your prospective hosts in excruciating detail the foreverness of dying by the flood's hands is a pretty damn convincing argument.

[plucky mantle]

I dunno

It’s like

[wispy pewter]

wren't they under siege at the time

[plucky mantle]

That’s assuming they’re assimilated

So long as no body is left behind, you can’t be assimilated. You just die like normal

So vaporisation is a good bet

So, based on that, you can still live out whatever remainder of your life you have left

[wispy pewter]

can you unflood a victim tho

[empty bloom]

Not really?

Like

[plucky mantle]

Their conscious is assimilated into the Flood collective intelligence

[empty bloom]

Jenkins is a spot of early installment weirdness but I still wager it's because of a quirk of his physiology, not just the infection form being old.

Like, something that prevented it from properly accessing most of his neural tissue.

[plucky mantle]

What’s that about Jenkins?

Thought he got assimilated

[empty bloom]

Valjean made me think of unflooding folks, and Jenkins is still the sole proper example of an infected individual with some method, albiet fleeting, of free will.

So like, I don't think you could unflood even someone like Jenkins; You aren't curing his body, and you can't really salvage his brain.

Because if you started cutting, you'd expose whatever left what was left of his brain to the flood infected tissue-and thus hasten the process and fully floodify him.

[empty bloom]

(I'm aware of Faber getting taunted-but that's just the flood playing with its food)

[plucky mantle]

Back to this point. I’m still on the fence because sure the spread of the Flood is inevitable, but so are taxes, lol

[empty bloom]

Taxes don't lock you in the torment nexus forever.

[wispy pewter]

you knw what stop it

s spread? quarantines and stay at home orders

[plucky mantle]

That’s assuming you get assimilated

[empty bloom]

Right, I'm saying it, for whatever reason, decided that those scientists were worth not assimilating and telling to off.

Which, I mean, considering I view the Primordial as a sort of 'last gasp' of the altruistic nature of the original Precursors and thus fully aware it was living on borrowed time, that would check out.

One last 'mercy' to a species it failed.

[plucky mantle]

I think your idea that it basically just logic plagued them into doing it makes the most sense

Because no matter what possibility I think of, none of them seem to horrify me

[empty bloom]

Keep in mind that I really hate logic plague theories.

They strike me as incredibly lazy.

But in this case it's also kinda the only answer that makes sense, but I'm sticking with my 'altruistic primordial' rationale.

A rare example of the logic plague being used out of mercy.

[plucky mantle]

Who knows

[empty bloom]

If the Primordial is the last vestige of the mindset of the original Primordials; The one that was testing humanity with the Mantle and got annihilated by the Forerunners; It only makes sense that its last act to humanity was to 'save' a few more souls from the flood's ruination.

[plucky mantle]

Anyways I gotta sleep. If anyone ever comes up with a possibility that they find genuinely horrifying, let me know

[empty bloom]

Isn't that kind of subjective anyways?

[plucky mantle]

I suppose?

Then again, it told these things to a fair few humans I’d assume, not just one

Different humans, different views

[empty bloom]

Overall argument isn't even really relevant in this case.

[plucky mantle]

I guess so, lol

[empty bloom]

Hell-the argument is pretty universal. Mortal imperative understands suffering is a net negative, so convincing you to end your own suffering before you suffer my kin's wrath forever is a pretty solid argument.

I think looking for horror out of the Primordial's arguments with its human observers is kind of a fool's errand, in other words. I don't even really think it did it out of malice, so horror in what it said is kind of irrelevant.

@stoic hamlet

Any spots in what I said? My forerunner lore is iffy.

[stoic hamlet]

My forerunner lore is also pretty iffy, lol

[empty bloom]

https://tenor.com/view/tumblr-seal-hell-seal-in-hell-hellseal-gif-17580455937497819090

Me @ eternal for failing me, one last time

[spare kite]

I know hence the ironic part. The generation that she hated the most ended up being the best example of her vision.

[wispy pewter]

no how

[hardy swan]

Like how

Most of the IVs I know don’t live up to the IIs

There’s a difference between doing great feats and doing the feats and surviving

[unique rune]

by that metric the S-IIs haven’t done a great job at that either

[empty bloom]

Posting this for no reason at all.

[wispy pewter]

I hate the didact

[empty bloom]

Womp womp.

[wispy pewter]

how did she put all that hair in the helmet

[spare kite]

Your confused here. I am not saying that the 4's are physically more capable than the 2's nor is Hasley saying that. Hasley says that her spartans are humanities NEXT STEP, meaning that they're meant to be more than just their military capabilities, they're meant to be what humanity in its totality becomes. The issue is that the spartan 2 program is not safe like at all lol, so how in the hell are the 2's gonna be the next step if the augmentations are so restrictive and deadly. The 4's on the other hand have a far safer augmentaiton process that is not only applicable to adults, but has the technology to be applicable to children.

[wispy pewter]

if Cal didn't have to babysit those ODST's she would still be alive

[empty bloom]

If we're going into this-Cortana, literally Halsey's brainchild, explicitly considers her actions done for the rationale of making sure that people like the IIs don't exist.

It's part of why she has such animus against IVs.

[spare kite]

Yea but goodluck trying to convince people of this. Ig the 2's fit Halsey's vision better despite the fact that it would completely eliminate all adults and kill more than half of all of the kids left lol.

[hardy swan]

Halsey didn’t get the chance to refine her project

[empty bloom]

I'm one of 5's story's most dedicated fans, if I didn't accept I was smashing my forehead against the mountain until the mountain broke I'd have given up long ago.

[spare kite]

Irrelevant because she is talking about the program that she HAD

The 4's by the fact that its safe for virtually everyone in humanity makes it a far better next step for humanity. This shouldnt be argued lol.

[hardy swan]

No one is arguing it’s safer lol

[empty bloom]

It's always silly to me that humanity's next step is posthumanism... In 2560. Like, yeah, duh, no crap.

[spare kite]

Yes I know and that was my original point, and why I found what Halsey said to be ironic lol. The 2's do not fit her vision of the next step of humanity, because it is far too restrictive. You assumed that I was making a claim about the 4's being "better" than the 2's when I, nor Halsey was making that comparison.

[hardy swan]

Humanity’s next step is not augmenting its evolution

[hardy swan]

You need to stop saying that because Halsey says dumb things. No way can we augment every single human to become the next step

Why IIs are even remotely close because Halseys criteria for selection was 1 in billions

They have the genetic trait and intelligence she handpicked

[spare kite]

Not now of course, but the goal is for everyone to eventually be above baseline humans, and you cannot achieve that by sticking with the spartan 2 program. Again the 4's being applicable to virtually all humans means that all future advancements can benefit all of humanity.

[olive vigil]

My lore is that I am dead by the time Halo 1 happens

[sly geode]

im so confused how the endless can be worse than the flood

do they survive the halo activation or smth?

[empty bloom]

Worse=/=more powerful.

They're worse in ways that aren't clear yet because Halo Infinite needed more plot in its plot, mostly.

[sly geode]

yeah that describes infinite

the gameplay is honestly pretty fun but the story isnt as good as you would expect from halo

wait nvm 343 made halo 5

[empty bloom]

...?

Yeah, and that story was fine, your point?

[sly geode]

oh no offense bro it was a zanny joke

i honestly wish the beginning of infinite was a boss fight tho other than that its really good

like an opening boss fight against atriox would be dope

but it would also either be too hard or not make sense so i see why they didnt do it

[sonic lagoon]

Banished are just raiders. Cool looking but just raiders.

[sly geode]

yeah but thats technically not halo infinite its halo wars 2

technicall

y

[sly geode]

yeah i googled it they can survive the halo

imagine if the flood infected one of them

[plucky mantle]

I wonder what it would be like to be The Flood. I don’t mean what it would be like to be infected, but what it would be like to be the flood. To be that unending mind that lives and dies and lives again

What would it be like having a mind so vast that it contains the knowledge of millions of beings across eons

On that note, would the Gravemind enjoy blueberry pie?

[spice crystal]

Yes and no

[sly geode]

i think they gravemind would like it

who doesnt

[spark pivot]

Uh, no? The banished don't operate any differently in infinite than they did in HW2

[orchid kettle]

There's some truth honestly, or at least, there seems to be with the idea that the Banished were conceptualized as a far smaller force in HW2

and Atriox being so cool elevated them to main enemy territory

But that may have also happened during HW2's development considering how the game's story obviously sees Atriox as too important to off in one game.

Which leads to this kinda underwhelming campaign story where he shows up, humbles Red Team, gets a big lore drop about who he is, and then just dips for the rest of the campaign

Like in hindsight its very strange to think that Atriox only brought one ship to capture and occupy the Ark given how vast his resources turned out to be.

[obsidian thistle]

I'll always say this. Halo Wars 2 "feels" incomplete story wise. It builds up so many plot threads. And doesnt end a lot.

The DLC Thankfully dont have that issue

Self-contained stories of the fight not ending

A part of me wishes they concluded or continued the initial hook of what took the SoF to the Ark

[carmine sleet]

Aye

Like, it'd be fine if say, we got a reveal by the end of HW2 that it was something which wanted to protect the Ark or something, but we never got that

[strange pumice]

Yeah, DLC from Halo wars 2 are good
But it's clear
Banished almost didn't create another Gravemind that if possible can control a whole Ark
That would be hilarious, if they didn't stop proto-gravemind that they created by own hands just to scavenge resources from infected by Flood High Charity

[carmine sleet]

I think what could be an interesting twist is if it was a Created alligned entity which sent them to the Ark, but that would beg so many questions like how they found the Spirit of Fire and how it knew to send them to the Ark

[carmine sleet]

They didn't intentionally allow a Proto-Gravemind to form

[empty bloom]

Well, their unit org is certainly different, but then they seem to utilize a bizarre hybrid of tactics that don't really sync with HW2's depiction.

Personally, I think they should've had a greater spread of 'specialist' brutes.

[pliant valley]

hey, is there any instances of the battle rifle or the DMR being in the events of halo CE?

[stoic hamlet]

Not shown, but the BR55 and BR55HB, and possibly the BR85n would have featured canonically. The M392 DMR is less likely, but maybe one or two might’ve been present. Depends on of the Autumn had any Army units with her.

[pliant valley]

Is there any reason why? I've always seen the BR as a much better gun for being on the ground or orbital use, while the MA5B would be a lot better in space where you would be in cramped spaces and need to spray bullets. Not saying that they're no procedure for escaping onto a planet, but I just see it as not really being worth it since most space battles with the Covies ended in a horrible massacre

I guess special forces, specifically the ODSTs on board, would prefer it, probably paired with a suppressed SMG or SOCOM pistol. It's a much better rifle than the MA5B, and they would need to have accuracy a lot more for their operations in comparison to the, in comparison, not very well trained marines

[thorn ember]

Close to mid range combat basically. With the BR you have to aim properly and that's more for mid to long distance engagements. Gameplay is not really an accurate portrayal to how it's utilized in lore. Even then that's quite inconsistent.

[pliant valley]

You wouldn’t really need mid to long range in space (assuming this is the UNSC not wanting to over equip the ships for scenarios that are unlikely) and the MA5B is the much better option, especially when close quarters combat is the most likely scenario for most troops in space fighting off boarding parties and board enemy ships. The only scenario I really see with the BR55 being better for this is on a ship hull while trying to enter the enemy ship. This is a lot of assumptions being made here as well, I’m not saying you’re wrong, it just seems like the BR wouldn’t make that much sense (at least in my head)

[spice crystal]

Or in a hangar bay

[stoic hamlet]

The MA5 and its various iterations (37, 40, B, C, D, K etc), are still very effective weapons on the ground with ranges comparable to modern rifles with a 4X scope. Remember that the gameplay depictions aren’t accurate to how they’d function canonically. If we use say, a gameplay map… idk, Blood Gulch as the example, the standard MA5 would be able to perhaps not easily but reliably engage a target on the opposite side of the map, especially with UNSC forces using either the embedded irons sights or, more likely, their tactical monoculars and shooter glasses that project a HUD.

You’d rarely see someone explicitly choose say, an M7S over an MA5K for a boarding operation, and aside from ODST (where the Squad really should have had MA5’s of some fashion, either the K or C variant), The Babysitter (same deal) and the Helljumper comic (again, same deal) we really don’t see ODST’s use SMG’s because they lack the stopping power to properly deal with armoured targets, of which the Covenant have in abundance.

[hardy vigil]

Does anyone know where I can find a reliable visual timeline that ties the books to the gsmes?

[spark pivot]

I know a guy who made a timeline of basically every chapter of the books and games, I can dm you his discord if you'd like

[hardy vigil]

Holy Christ yes that would be sick

[obsidian thistle]

I dont recommend the novels in timeline order fyi

Reading The Forerunner Saga at the start pushes most folks off

Its not bad

Just... difficult for most folks

Even people who said they like that sorta thing like Star Wars

Find it difficult

https://www.halopedia.org/Halo_novels

[hardy vigil]

im well past the forerunner trillogy i really liked were they went with guilty sparks character being one of the ancient humans that ran around the end of the war was also really cool

[obsidian thistle]

https://www.halopedia.org/List_of_Halo_novels_by_release_date

Thats two sorta lists you can use

Some recommend the latter hard

Cause its release order

Some like me recommended smaller series chunks

[hardy vigil]

i am kinda reading chrono im on new blood rn. started reading the books because i was playing through the games chrono and forgot how jarring the transitions from 3 to 4 to 5 to infinite were and wanted to fill in the holes. so far its a blast seeing how the skism created a power vacuum and how the humans are secretly funding the sanghili civil war. The entire spartan 2 trope. just the kind of mental gymnastics i like being played out through these kinds of works

[orchid kettle]

But when its time to mow down defenseless civilians, there's no better weapon for the job than the M7

👌

[stoic hamlet]

I was thinking about adding that but I held off, lol

[dusk jetty]

Everyone recommends timeline order for Star Wars, but it similar to halo that you ironically miss out on some story and emotional beats if you do

[carmine sleet]

Had the prequel trilogy not shown Anakin survive and be renamed Darth Vader, some of that would've definitely been preserved

That and Padme's death happens way too early in the timeline to make what Leia says in Return of the Jedi make sense

[dusk jetty]

Sam Whitwer has a good watch order, start them on the original trilogy, then stop with empire, watch the prequels, then rotj

Assuming they know nothing of Star Wars in the first place

[reef viper]

https://www.halowaypoint.com/news/spotlight-march-2025

anyone else notice this was written by a new "Community Writer"?

Mutinous Core

"Third-string sub-monitor of a neglected Forerunner installation. Commission date: unknown. This Facilitator-class ancilla will dutifully catalog specimens for all foreseeable cycles until the process is terminated by a Reclaimer or authorized Forerunner routine. Cheerful at work. Feisty when provoked."

[stoic hamlet]

It’s the person who took over Haruspis’ job. The posting was held in early January.

[obsidian thistle]

The description pretty much is saying in non-fiction terms...
"I (new person) am the new community writer going forward. Talking about the community and so on. I will continue this role until I am no longer deemed necessary by my employers. I (new person) am cheerful and feisty."

Its that but given a lil bit of lore flair

I wouldnt take it seriously at this point in time lore wise

To add to this

https://web.archive.org/web/20200316073247/https://support.halowaypoint.com/hc/en-us/profiles/377018114311-Intercepting-Subfragator

Grim once said this in regards to these accounts.

I presume this applies to this also until said otherwise

Though unfortunately the og sauce there is dead. :/ So take my screencap of a twitter preview with salt if you choose not to trust me! 🙂

TLDR: I'd "wait" until the writer or Halo Studios makes a real effort to define the monitor if they choose to

Otherwise its the writer having fun, and there is nothing wrong with that.

[bronze prawn]

Did the covenant ever questioned why the "gods" technology that is supposed to be for them, most of the times only reacts to humans, and most of this tech is in human planets

[hardy swan]

Why do you think they want to wipe the humans out

[unique rune]

Most of them wouldn’t have known that Forerunner tech preferentially interacts with humans. It also wasn’t particularly concentrated on any human worlds.

[sly geode]

honestly u do have a point tho

[jade cape]

In the midst of a religious war of intolerance against humanity, faith in that religion, coupled with the fear of the consequences of “heresy”, tends to do most of the controlling as opposed to logic, unfortunately

to even suggest such a thing among the covenant, and even more so at the higher levels as is evident with the prophets, would’ve immediately discounted your point of view and resulted in an extremely severe punishment, but most of the time death & public humiliation to be “made an example of”.

If I remember correctly, mendicant bias tried to correct the prophets’ misinterpretation of forerunner artifacts and the truth about their connection to humanity, but the prophets settled for covering it up and carrying on with a false war of intolerance, anything otherwise would’ve shattered the core of what the covenant was built on, and the truth would’ve torn the covenant asunder much sooner

[wispy pewter]

ok

[versed helm]

It’s probably a case of “too deep to care”. Their love and worshipping of these ancient forerunner technologies (that works only for humans) came far before they ever came into contact with us.

[reef orbit]

Okay

Now hear me out

Those of you who have read contact harvest or at least know what I'm talking about

What if

[hardy swan]

What

[reef orbit]

It's taking me a while to wright

Gimme a second

[hardy swan]

1

Just kidding

[reef orbit]

So what if Sargeant Johnson had a son that we didn't know about with Jilan al-Cigny or whatever her name is and we haven't heard of him because Johnson went to fight the covenant after contact harvest. I mean, as we know he and Jilan did the deed after contact harvest, so it would make sense if Jilan had a son that Johnson didn't know about. Now what if, in halo 7 or something, there is a marine named Sargeant al-Cigny and it is revealed later at some point that this is Johnson's son, but in a subtle way. I think it would be cool if we had this guy have the same mentality and attitude as his dad so that we still have a character like Johnson after he died to kind of be an iconic halo character again. I feel like it would be awesome but it could probably be done differently and have a better execution than this.

[reef orbit]

Bruh

💀

[hardy swan]

Do you know Cutter had a daughter

[reef orbit]

Yeah, Rion

I just finished smoke and shadow and am playing Halo wars 2

Wait

Cutter?

He did?

I thought you were talking about forge

[stoic hamlet]

There’s nothing to imply this occurred, especially with the most recent book. As far as we know it was just a fling they had at the end, a way to de-stress and feel seen by each other.

[reef orbit]

Yeeeeaaaahhh but I'm saying, what if

I mean, Jilan had only been in contact harvest and empty throne so there is much more they can do with her character

And there is still room in the lore for it to make sense that she did have a son

[stoic hamlet]

There are arguably better existing characters that would be more impactful from a narrative sense, like the return of Corporal Harland, Captain Delgado, Lieutenant Wagner, Commander Lash and the Dusk crew, etc.

[hardy swan]

Isn’t Rion the soldiers one

[reef orbit]

Forge's daughter

[reef orbit]

Delgado?

Like Ignacio Delgado or some other guy?

[stoic hamlet]

Him.

[reef orbit]

K

[stoic hamlet]

Ignatio Delgado, from The Cole Protocol.

[reef orbit]

Yeah

Loved that character

[hardy swan]

You know who should return for Halo 7 though. The actual people on the Infinity

[reef orbit]

Amen

[hardy swan]

I want my man Lasky to make an appearance

[rugged bluff]

I hope that halo mega makes a comeback

[carmine sleet]

There's really no reason to do that. Like others have said, there is nothing even implying Johnson has a kid, but also it'd just come across as a cheap attempt at fan service and an attempt to try and "win back" the fans who refuse to play any game made by 343, especially if the character is just a carbon copy of Johnson

[plucky mantle]

Y’all know that inverse of the dread meant to be felt towards eldritch horrors, where instead you’re inexplicably drawn to them?

Why do I feel the urge to be uploaded into a machine body so I can serve The Flood without being physically assimilated

[carmine sleet]

Being in a machine body won't save you

The logic plague is a thing and it allowed the Gravemind to convince Mendicant Bias to help the Flood

And uh... Serving the Flood is not a good thing

[versed helm]

Didn’t the Primordial become the Gravemind only after it was disintegrated in the time chamber? I do know they theorized it was a Gravemind of a dozen or so bodies, but nothing quite concrete. Even in the Flood Hivemind, I’d say the Primordial takes a symbolically higher position than the Gravemind compound intelligence, especially considering what Halo Mythos said.

[spark pivot]

the primordial is the gravemind compound intelligence

[versed helm]

Well, only after a certain point was it the Gravemind compound intelligence. I’ll quote Halo Mythos when I get home, but it was something along the lines of “NOW (as in not always), the Primordial wielded unimaginable power”.

[empty bloom]

Might as well be trying to 'win back' your dad from the milk store, really. It's futile.

[carmine sleet]

Aye

https://www.halowaypoint.com/news/canon-fodder-tasty-tomes

[obsidian thistle]

Some tasty lore here

I am a big fan of this!

It made use of the single BXR texture implication in Halo 5 that I made a big fuss over a small while back lol

[strange pumice]

What really is the difference between MJOLNIR armour types?
Like recon, scout?
Does it mean something or are they just cosmetics?

[stoic hamlet]

The armour descriptions themselves can answer that, I think.

[spark pivot]

the differences (for the ones that you mentioned) are literally in the name, recon is designed for reconnisance, scout for scouting, I can go on

[carmine sleet]

Fotus has the most important one

[strange pumice]

https://i.imgur.com/hOHDeRH.jpeg
I mean about these types of MJOLNIR armour

[carmine sleet]

Read the descriptions the games present

[strange pumice]

Thanks

[orchid kettle]

Recon and scouting are essentially the same thing. Even in-universe, Recon and Scout were parallel projects that more or less sought to accomplish the same thing, just by different means. Scout apparently makes you more stealthy thanks to its "advanced materials" while Recon uses emission bafflers.

[spark pivot]

this is true, I mean, scouting is literally reconnisance lol

[orchid kettle]

I will like to state for the record that I am a known armor lore hater

oh the GEN2 Air Assault helmet is beloved by team leaders because of its long range comms, eh

then how come we've never seen a team leader wear it

[carmine sleet]

That doesn't matter

Because once again, I must remind everyone that Fotus has the most important description

"Received excessively high movement proficiency ratings for coffee runs on rainy days"

[orchid kettle]

mark v zeta is used by Spartans stationed on Zeta Halo

and also the one guy in the background of the Academy

[carmine sleet]

I think CIA figiured out that guy's name a few months back

[dusk jetty]

Every other description is “used by team leaders” or some vague statement about whatever the manufactured intentions are

So I can’t blame some people for not finding them very informative

[high elbow]

Instead of finding a leader in others, perhaps look inwards to see that the real leader was you all along

[stoic hamlet]

It should also be said that a lot of this armour wouldn’t be static to the Spartan. If they can afford it, logistically and etc, they’d swap out helmets and such between missions.

[spark pivot]

how many spartan team leaders have we actually seen...

but yes I am very much awaiting the day that Air Assault gets noticed officially in a book or on an actual spartan

[stoic hamlet]

I mean technically every single Spartan can be a team leader. They’re a fluid group with no real hierarchy.

[spark pivot]

that's not even close to true

unless they're working seperately or as individual units, there's usually a very clear hierarcy andn leader

[stoic hamlet]

I mean, no, they can adjust leaders on the fly. We’ve seen this more than a few times.

Linda, despite often being on Blue Team, has led Green Team. Kurt’s gone from being a team leader of Green Team to just another member of Blue Team.

Buck went from Team Leader to Spartan Commander then to just being a random team member on Osiris. Vale has done the same (not as a commander though).

The only ones who are actually constantly in a set hierarchy are the III’s, but even that’s not entirely true, as we’ve seen Tom lead all of Beta Company in training, then just go back to leading a single team during TORPEDO.

Their roles constantly shift as needed by the missions they undertake.

[spark pivot]

this is true, but they do maintain a clear hierarcy outside of when the mission demands a shift in it, that's what I mean

[stoic hamlet]

ah, then yeah in that case you're correct.

[plucky mantle]

I know. The way I interpret the logic plague is that it is simply an argument. An argument so profound and so convincing that it can even sway an AI as powerful as Mendicant Bias to the Flood’s side

As I understand it, Mendicant was not being controlled. He was choosing to help the Flood

[spark pivot]

Did anyone ever hear about the books being declared non-canon? I got someone tryna say that they got declared non-canon after H5 even tho ik that didnt happen

[plucky mantle]

We, as the fans of the games, have the amazing and magical ability to say “lol, no” to any lore decisions they make

[spark pivot]

Fair but I need an actual answer here lmao

[plucky mantle]

No idea, sorry

[empty bloom]

Only from game-only weirdos who made it up in their heads.

[spark pivot]

Thats what I thought

[spare kite]

Game-only weirdos just mad that they havent been eating like us novel fans.

[steel aurora]

novel vs game halo fans has gotta be the corniest thing ive ever heard of lmao

yall need to calm down

[terse lava]

Eh not much different than other sub-categories of various fanons.

[obsidian thistle]

As yer local Halopedia Admin. The books are still canon as far as I'm aware

Only story stuff thats outight non-canon are the stuff Halo Studios have said. So the Hellspartans, the appropriately named Halo Legends short Odd One Out, the Fracture stories, and the 343 Industries and FOTUS manufacturers in Halo Infinite. So pretty much stuff that impacts no regular fan.

[wispy pewter]

they introduce the best Spartan II and made him non canon

[jade cape]

To the best of my knowledge: none of the books or anything from them have been overtly declared non-canon, although some stuff from them have been slightly retconned due to what actually happens throughout the games, though the most extreme example of that I could point to is The Fall of Reach novel Vs. Halo Reach’s in-game story, the timeline of events therein, etc etc.

[spare kite]

At best you could argue that the games hold more "importance" since its the more accessible and popular media, but 343 seems to want both the games and EU to work in conjunction with each other not withstanding minor issues.

[carmine sleet]

Or we could just view Halo as a book series with video game tie ins

[jade cape]

I always say:

Bungie was more concerned with the games, first and foremost, with the lore really having a place as an afterthought, during Bungie’s time with the franchise.

There’s a handful of things in the original novels that don’t quite line up with how the games play out, throughout Reach all the way to Halo 3.

I think 343 really took the lore seriously, but the ways in which it was changed & expanded upon, and the reception to it, was largely a mixed bag, as far as the games ( 4 & 5 namely ) were concerned

story wise, I myself enjoy more of what the books have to offer as opposed to the games, personally

[spark pivot]

Bro I wasn't trying to start an arugment I just needed to explain to someone that the books wer still canon 💀

and I needed more proof than my own words

[jade cape]

this is the lore & universe chat, yapping sort of comes with the territory

[versed helm]

Sure, but I’ve heard this from the copium-breathing people refusing to accept 343 and their additions. They consider guidebooks not canon, while everything before 343 canon, it’s really frustrating. People are so misinformed, Noble Six was able to wash the 3 other (not MC) alive members on Blue Team in a multi-10k vote poll. However, Sam was the one to beat him in a poll, and many people still think he’s by far the tallest Spartan.

[versed helm]

Simply just ask what makes them non-canon. The burden of proof should be pretty easy to lift off if you point out that, at least for the recent Halo encyclopedia, it has placement within the lore itself. For example: the Spartan Field Guide is the actual guide made by the UNSC for commanders and officers. They have concrete positions within the lore, and unless there is highly specific evidence completely stating that whatever book you are talking about isn’t canon, then it STAYS canon.

I truly think it’s impossible to retcon an entire book, but maybe bits within. Tell me about the book and I’ll see if it lines up with recent guidebooks

[carmine sleet]

Star Wars quite literally retconned its entire expanded universe over 10 years ago. the idea it's impossible to retcon a piece of media doesn't hold weight when there's a high profile example out there

[versed helm]

I speak within the context of halo, not other franchises. From what I’ve read, someone suggesting that they’ve somewhere retconned a book in its entirety doesn’t seem likely

Unlike Bungie, the Legends continuation actually wanted to keep its timeline going. Bungie completely dropped the ball on Halo in order to escape Microsoft

[spark pivot]

not a book, every book

they thought every book got alt-f4'd out of canon

[versed helm]

You serious?

Every book?

At this point it’s a blatant argument from pigheadedness. It’s a fact that these books are canon. They are literally called “definitive guides” at times.

[versed helm]

“The universe of Halo is remarkably vast in scale and astonishingly elaborate in detail, telling rich stories filled with bold characters, breathtaking worlds, and thrilling conflicts. In celebration of the 20th anniversary of Halo, Dark Horse and 343 Industries have teamed up to deliver the most definitive guide to the universe thus far. Spanning over a hundred millennia and encompassing over a hundred thousand light years, the Halo Encyclopedia captures two decades of storytelling with stunning, never-before-seen art and the most detailed exploration of the universe’s many characters, worlds, and technologies to have ever been created”

This alone confirms Halo Encyclopedia (2022) edition

[spark pivot]

thats why I was confused when they said that lmao, ik that never happened, they misread something somewhere

so I came here to acquire confirmation that they were severely missing/mishearing information

[versed helm]

If they put up a fight about it. Simply ask them for evidence. If they don’t have any (official sources confirming their argument), then it isn’t an argument fit for a formal discussion. Without actual evidence, his argument is ultimately void and a headcanon.

[versed helm]

If that happened, I’d honestly feel sad. All that lore, all that time into the books, gone.

[fallow jay]

Fellas, at the end of the day, halo is just a story. What you think is a more compelling story can be how you view the halo universe.

The franchise will be 30 years old in just a few years. If you go in circles about what piece of media over the last few decades is canon or not and what book contradicts what obscure guide then you can drive yourself crazy.

[sonic lagoon]

Why did the UNSC stop using the M820 Scorpion when the main armament shells are 150mm, compared to the 90mm M808C Scorpion’s shells?

[hardy swan]

Because it doesn’t make sense

[carmine sleet]

If you're referring to how we got from the M820 in Halo 5 to going back to the M808 seen in Infinite, it's because people complained the Halo 5 scorpion didn't look the same as the versions in previous games

[versed helm]

Wise words indeed. But, I do what I do because a good amount of the fanbase is just miseducated. They don’t take the time to read or look into the lore, but to watch the 30 second shorts that severely misinterpret information. Not to mention people are toxic about it, surprisingly enough.

[spark pivot]

Thats what I did to her lol, I asked for proof and she couldnt find anything, and by then I had gotten replies from two very convincing sources lol

[wispy pewter]

I wish I can read more halo books but man Rion Forge and a bunch of Meridian orphans doesn't spike my interests

[carmine sleet]

You say that like that's all the novels focus on

Also Rion Forge is fantastic

[versed helm]

If she has absolutely no evidence, call her out on committing a fallacy of assertion (stating something is true with zero supporting evidence) and call it a day.

[versed helm]

Completely fair. I just read the guidebooks to absorb general information.

[spark pivot]

I wasn't pulling out all the logic yap XD also this was resolved literally days ago

[versed helm]

I’ve found that logic yap is the only way out of a “no, you!” conversation. “This isn’t a court room.”, these set rules provide an unbiased balance. Days ago? Well, I’m never on time it seems.

[dusk jetty]

It’s discord, if someone’s complaining about responding to an old message they can just delete it

Or, not be uptight about in the first place because it’s visible for everyone to see

[carmine sleet]

Could be worse, I had someone randomly DM me about something I said months ago

[dusk jetty]

Roundabout way to get the same answer lmao

It is pretty strange when someone replies to messages that old

But if it’s only a day or two old especially in low traffic channels I don’t mind

[spark pivot]

Bro no one was being uptight????

[spare kite]

If anything I think Spartan-1337 should be canon

[versed helm]

He was probably lagging (irl, trust). But seriously, he probably spent that time meticulously coming up with a reply if he was that dedicated, lol

[versed helm]

Yes.

[carmine sleet]

Nah, this guy literally was DMing me about something I said months ago, you don't have something lag for that long when online

[versed helm]

In no way shape or form was I complaining about responding to an old message, if that’s what you were intending your response to. Simply, as the conversation states, I was late to giving advice on a certain discussion done outside of discord.

[versed helm]

Well, I guess that’s just another day in Discord-land

[dusk jetty]

Well I wasn’t talking about you fortunately

[versed helm]

Ah, well, was it intended to someone or just a wise piece of advice at a random time?

[dusk jetty]

Primus primarily, but I guess also random advice since people do it sometimes

[versed helm]

I see. Well, advice noted regardless.

[spark pivot]

I wasn't even complaining.... I was just letting it be known that the situ was resolved awhile ago since people were still talking abt it

[dusk sphinx]

what is the lore of halo infinites multiplayer? (why are we fighting)

[spark pivot]

The banished attacked humanity on the halo ring (zeta halo this time) so chief is pulling a 1 man army to displace their hold on the ring

[dusk sphinx]

ooh ok

[carmine sleet]

For the multiplayer specifically, it's all training for the Spartans of the UNSC. With Infinite's multiplayer taking place at the AJJA, the Avery J. Johnson Academy of Military Science, in the aftermath of Infinity and Zeta Halo disappearing (Which is where Chief's story is during Infinite's campaign)

[dusk sphinx]

how do people not float away while on the halo ring due to its shape?

[spark pivot]

because the halo ring is spinning, and because teh habitat of the ring is on the inside surface, it acts like a centrifuge

[dusk sphinx]

ooh that makes alot more sense

[versed helm]

Atmosphere and Gravity, maybe. Considering the forerunners could harness black holes and quantum fluctuations just to power their ships, they could probably do something like that.

[spark pivot]

idr where but it was said that the gravity on the rings was caused by their spinning

I think the encylopedia mentioned it

[versed helm]

I’ll consult it when I get home, it’ll probably be in the same section with the quantum fluctuation shenanigans

[unique rune]

The rings have artificial gravity generators
IIRC the spin isn't fast enough to simulate gravity

[last anchor]

Albeit the Retconomicon was a bad move thst they have slowly come to regret i think

[last anchor]

Thats how the ejection function Anders used on 09 worked

[stoic hamlet]

Basically they retconned the stories, not the objects or items.

[versed helm]

Last time I heard, Disney was gonna bank on Luke Skywalker as a desperate attempt to bring fans back.

[versed helm]

Well, now their is a vast difference between the two in many different ways

The Master Chief is officially recognized within the lore as the greatest Spartan in history because of his unparalleled accomplishments, renown, and legacy. If that’s the case, and “greatest” is defined by those several categories: who are the greatest Spartans that aren’t on Blue Team?

[spark pivot]

Halopedia probably has the answer tbh

[obsidian thistle]

https://www.halopedia.org/Buffer_field

Been on my backlog to update

[versed helm]

Halopedia never fails to answer even the most specific of questions regarding Halo

[spice crystal]

Amen

[tired peak]

i thohut that said Butter Feild

i cant stop laughting now

its hard to breath

[tired peak]

pls tell me i not thw only one who saw butter feild

[spice crystal]

No

For the first hour I read butter field

[tired peak]

its so funny there tears steraming down my fave

[spice crystal]

Is your vision blurry from it?

[tired peak]

a bit

its amost clerad up now

[spark pivot]

you arent lol

the first time I read it I was like "Wait, butter field? wth?"

[tired peak]

deploy the BUTTER

[spark pivot]

great now I'm thinking of ships yeeting out melted butter to jam signals XD

[tired peak]

lol

[tired peak]

https://tenor.com/view/wesley-angel-glad-service-gif-26111796

[spark pivot]

dangit now I'm trying to remember which series wesley was from

[tired peak]

core memory reopened

[spark pivot]

after intense google searching I have determined it was probably buffy the vampire slayer

and the fact I even know what that is makes me (and probably some other people) feel old

[tired peak]

Ah

[versed helm]

Welp. I guess we know that butter was the work of the Forerunners.

[tired peak]

The Butter Array

[versed helm]

The flood, buttered to perfection, ultimately perished in the yellow goodness

[tired peak]

The lesser Arc and the Butter Arc

[versed helm]

Wait. I have an idea!

What if

The butter toad came from halo?

From cloudy with a chance of meatballs?

You know, cuz butter?

[tired peak]

Butter...

[carmine sleet]

https://tenor.com/view/dandadan-dumbfounded-momo-ayase-ayase-momo-ken-takakura-gif-14575386895602202640

[wispy pewter]

with peanuts

[valid gazelle]

I stumbled upon this band that made an entire album in 8 hours and one of the tracks had some drums that brought me to Halo. I think the song could be about Master Chief's heart "holding on" to his memories of Cortana before she went rampant. https://open.spotify.com/track/0UAekM5cBtvCRBAixkoF97?si=e241a6e3ed414372

[versed helm]

Halo “butterized”-universe

[carmine sleet]

https://tenor.com/view/dandadan-anime-momo-ayase-okarun-ken-takakura-gif-1624990033878390232

[versed helm]

Let me and Okarun indulge in our sadness (for me it’s butter-halo)

[carmine sleet]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-rebels-darth-maul-no-maul-star-wars-gif-17336122

[versed helm]

[teal forum]

I wanted to see if anyone could tell me which helmet Atriox is holding but it's not letting me attach a image here.

[strange pumice]

Atriox?
He held Douglas helmet on the Ark and crushed it, maybe you mean about Tovarus and Hyperius?

[teal forum]

https://www.manticgames.com/halo-flashpoint/rise-of-the-banished-boxed-set/

One of the images I'm looking for help on is the Atriox model.

[strange pumice]

Oh, that Mark 7

[teal forum]

Thank you! It was hard for me to tell from that angle.

[versed helm]

The broken monkey has bagged another Spartan? Welp, at least it’s in a table top game and not a book

[obsidian thistle]

https://x.com/manticgames/status/1905251134500905233?t=l6JHm0vo62ONiVqbAfHRjQ&s=19

Mantic Games (@manticgames) on X

The legend of Atriox has inspired entire legions of warriors to defy the Covenant and follow their own fates. This is the Rise of the Banished.

https://t.co/meUg7NvhCf

Preorder your Rise of the Banished box now and get a FREE Limited Edition Atriox, Jiralhanae Warmaster Model

X · Mar 27, 2025, 1:30 PM

100% Mark VII

[strange pumice]

Kinda late, but thanks

[empty bloom]

Y'know, I still wonder what that ODST did to Atriox to make him take that chestplate as a trophy.

Must've been one hell of an ODST.

[gusty star]

I mean he prob was just collecting armor to kit bash considering how few resources had at the beginning of the Banished’s formation

[empty bloom]

He was still wearing it at the Ark. Implies it was more of a trophy to him.

Plus, Atriox seems to have a thing for usage of enemy trophies-see his gravity mace.

(The energy sword blades on it were made from the destroyed and rebuild pieces of Sangheili bloodblades)

Hmn.

Well, it can't be whatever gave him that lip scar. And the powered gauntlet is likely something he wears due to the injury from his breaking the chains.

(If you pay attention to the cutscene where Atriox 'catches' the blade, it leaves some nasty gashes in his hand-Covenant medicine, particularly renegade brute medicine, isn't going to be very good-but the Banished have engineering in spades)

Which... Is unmentioned, but like, the blade crossguard between the 'tines' of the sword he caught would've nearly severed his palm in half.

[sonic lagoon]

What armor does atriox wear during his time in the covenant?

[versed helm]

Atriox is one heck of a Brute, that much is true. Taking on three Spartan IIs in close combat and winning is unheard of among his species. While he did take one of them off-guard, the other two were perfectly made aware of him. It’s still, in my opinion, the most impressive space monkey feat yet. A perfect combination of strength and intelligence.

[empty bloom]

So far the best showing for a brute's actually Hyperius, for some damn reason.

[versed helm]

Because he’s killed a dozen Spartans?

[empty bloom]

Which is frankly ridiculous.

Unless like, he was in the Covenant when the IIIs were still Alpha and Beta.

[versed helm]

I will say there is zero context as to how he killed them. Atriox was shown to have combatted three Spartans at once in CQC. Hyperius is pretty broken, but I wouldn’t put it past him to team up on a single Spartan (his brother and lackeys follow him everywhere).

Copping Spartan Locke’s helmet is also pretty dang impressive

[versed helm]

Well, it’s still 12 Spartans. Our glorious King, however, the Master Chief, made short work of him, his brother, and the lackeys in a difficulty he described as “easy”.

John Halo for the win

[versed helm]

Me knowing that John-117 will eventually beat Atriox (arguably one of the best developed characters) because he’s da chosen one:

[empty bloom]

Atriox has... Very little development, what?

[stoic hamlet]

I rep Maccabeus as the best Jiralhanae. I won’t accept this Maccabeus slander. How dare.

[versed helm]

No, he does have good development for a villain. His uprising was actually noble, and he lead his kind out of a merciless slaughter they were forced to attend to. He’s also incredibly smart and more so a politician than anything, always choosing words over violence (at least when recruiting his own kind). He even isn’t opposed to letting humans join the Banished, because he recognizes the Banished as a faction for anyone who is outcasted.

[versed helm]

Respect