lore-and-universe

[hardy swan]

Or they can be separate villains

[neon remnant]

In the audio logs in halo infinite it is said that blue team and the chief went down to reach. What for?

[wispy pewter]

for a weapon

[carmine sleet]

They went to Reach to retrieve cloned brains of Doctor Halsey, one of which was used to create The Weapon as a countermeasure against Cortana. Shadows of Reach gives us the events which took place on the mission

[neon remnant]

Ah that makes sense

[carmine sleet]

Once again my copy of Empty Throne has been delayed...

I've gotta wait until the 18th

[versed helm]

With all the Noble Six overhype (10ks of votes in polls in the majority of him beating BT members like Linda or Fred in CQC) / Blue Team & MC undermining I’ve seen on YouTube, I need to make sure I’m not insane, is what I believe accurate?

1. Noble Six cannot beat any of the Blue Team (not including Sam-034) in CQC
2. Noble Six is far from the “greatest”.
3. The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines the term “GOAT” as: "the most accomplished and successful individual in the history of a particular sport or category of performance or activity.". So, when Master Chief is stated to be “inarguably the best Spartan” by the UNSC’s official field guide, or in any other source, it means he is the most successful and most accomplishment among all the Spartans. He may not be the best in any aspect, but he’s very well rounded in enough aspects to be called the “quintessential Spartan” by others. With his experience, abilities, and his uncanny luck (literal plot armor, lol) he manages to do what no-one else can.
4. The title “Hyper-lethal” belonging to only 2 Spartans was glassed from existance. Retconned.

Weirdly enough, Sam was the one to beat Noble in the poll, but not 3 other members of Blue Team that aren’t children who died early in their career and who made BT’s reputation.

[carmine sleet]

The thing with Six is we know so little about them in the first place

[versed helm]

Indeed

[carmine sleet]

Like we know they're a Beta Company Spartan III who did off the books missions, at some point they were involved in the Sabre program and they requested a Recon helmet before they arrived on Reach (But we don't know if it's canon they got the helmet)

[versed helm]

I do think we should get more info on his background, and that it’s too early to proclaim him as some “god-level” Spartan. What about point 3 I made, do you think it’s acceptable?

[carmine sleet]

"Off the books missions" might not be the best phrasing for that but the point is Six is very much used for more covert ops, which means at least he's about on par with the average Spartan

[carmine sleet]

Be like me and don't ever subscribe to the idea a Spartan is "god-level"

[versed helm]

We do know he pretty much made entire insurgencies go poof. I’d say assuming that much is very reasonable.

[versed helm]

Sorry, my mind has been logic-plagued by mindless 12 year olds during my many battle in the comments of these polls, I won’t say that term again.

[versed helm]

Any other notes regarding my beliefs? Perhaps on my interpretation of the Master Chief’s title as “the greatest”, or maybe something else?

[hot zodiac]

It's even cooler than any of that: Noble Six is as good as Master Chief because of you.

[versed helm]

Oh….(My sister lost to a grunt on Easy difficulty as MC on Infinite)

[hot zodiac]

Speedruns are the definitive canon story.

[versed helm]

Forerunners peering into the future wondering how MC is glitching through reality. Speaking of speed runs, I’m pretty sure Jervalin’s doing a 1000 dollar bounty or smt, can’t imagine doing a Halo Speedrun

[tired peak]

I need a weapon

[covert tide]

should the Xalanyn be connected to the Flood?
If the Xalanyn or Endless are immune to the halo rings and "More Dangerous Than the Flood" do you think the 2 are connected?
If not then how would this set up Halo 7

[unique rune]

no

[versed helm]

I always thought “more dangerous than the flood” was very weird to begin with.

[empty bloom]

There are different types of 'worse'.

My theory's been that Endless are related, somehow, like the flood, to the precursors. The precursors returning in general in any form was bad for the Forerunners; The flood were brutal, ruthless, horrifying, but they did not take the face of the precursors or the role; They were a force of nature.

Something in the Endless had to have scared the hell out of the Forerunners. Being your dead parent's face might be part of that.

My theory is that the Precursors are more of a nanotech/nanoorganic/mimetic species in general. The 'flood' was a devolution of what they were, not an 'evolution', much like how the precursor tech encountered in Outcasts was explicitly nanotech that interfaced, interfered with, and interrupted biological processes in other organisms.

[versed helm]

I’m pretty sure the fact the Endless were capable of surviving the firing of the Halo rings, and that scared the living daylight out of the Forerunners. At this point, get the Primordial back on stage, I so dearly want his return.

[empty bloom]

Precursor things in general didn't care about the rings, so it's a moot difference.

[versed helm]

That’s pretty intresting, ngl

[empty bloom]

The flood were more stopped because what they were inhabiting died, not anything that stopped the flood cells themselves.

[versed helm]

Sigh, then the Endless seem less special to me. I wonder what Offensive Bias will do to them…

[empty bloom]

On the contrary, I find it makes it more interesting.

Because the Endless are mantle-holders for the Precursors, by property exchange.

I mean that's ignoring a bunch of other things

Like how the Mantle of Responsibility is not a tangible thing but an ideal that striving towards is itself a test (It is literally a failiure condition to actually want and attain the mantle)

Which is something people really don't like to remember

[versed helm]

I wonder what role the Endless played in the Race for the Mantle O’ Responsibility, surely they must have. Also, correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t there still a few Precursor consciousnesses left, aka the Veiled Ones?

[empty bloom]

Yep, and the unborn/young ones currently being watched over by Chakas/Guilty Spark.

Which is kind of why I feel like the flood is something of a primitive, specific form of Precursors. Likewise, the name the 'endless' would also actually fit the flood and the Precursors.

"Endless". Like how you can never kill the Gravemind.

You can only kill a Gravemind.

[versed helm]

They are both seemingly eternal things

[versed helm]

I mean, if you eradicate every iota of Flood and/or Precursor tissue or consciousness in the entire universe and beyond, maybe you’ll get ride of it?

That’s is a complete and utter impossibility, however

[empty bloom]

So long as one exists, they all do, yeah.

Like-take for example, the events of Saturn devouring his son.

[versed helm]

Ohhhh, I remember that reference in one of those audio tales

[empty bloom]

That (likely ancient human) flood-infested ship had been left alone long enough for flood forms to recompile, remake, and become pure forms again.

Without access to a gravemind, without access to anything else.

[versed helm]

They use what they have I guess. Their ultimate goal is to build one in the end, however

[empty bloom]

Allllso, the Gravemind explicitly is 'part of' living time, effectively.

As I understand it.

[versed helm]

The gravemind has always confused me. It’s the primordial, right? Or did the primordial just give it all its knowledge and peace out?

[empty bloom]

Like, it's as unremovable an entity as can be, which is kinda why I think the Gravemind is, hah, a Primordial variation of what the precursors were. The 'them' they stifled to become the benevolent things the Forerunners killed.

[empty bloom]

Yep.

[versed helm]

What’s even more confusing is the encyclopedia talks like their different entities 😭 how can the Gravemind not have the same level of control over neural physics as the primordial, but still be the primordial, but have more knowledge???

[empty bloom]

By compositing knowledge from other species, civilizations, using the domain, etc.

Like my personal idea of what it is, which is heavily leaning on canon knowledge and what each thing precursor does, is that the flood are literally the earliest 'what' the precursors were. A runaway, hungry, consuming ravenous force of nature; Grey goo, more or less.

The 'end state' of Flood is the Precursor empire.

When the hunger abates and the mind soothes.

When the Forerunners 'killed' the precursors, they basically split the psyche of a mimetic nanite cognitohazard of a species.

[versed helm]

That could make sense, the flood are essentially primal Precursors transformed into an intergalactic pandemic. The gravemind even advanced even beyond the primordial, truly scary.

[wispy pewter]

as long as they are not fireproof

[versed helm]

That make sense considering that was the precursors ultimate uno reverse

[empty bloom]

Which to me, means the primordial is a 'reduced' precursor.

Basically the last vestiges of the proper 'precursor' intelligence.

[versed helm]

It pretty much was. It likely was also the first Gravemind. Only, it was the vessel of hatred the Precursors would bare upon the Forerunners

[empty bloom]

Yep!

[versed helm]

I love the idea of their relationship. It truly is something that could make you go insane! The greatest threat to biodiversity is essentially a primal version of, well, GOD

[empty bloom]

Honestly, I really hope my theory is right. It really echoes the overall narrative 'cycle', circle, ring, "Halo", of Halo.

[versed helm]

I pray they’ll give it a lot of thought like we do, over just feeding us a generic game of “shooty shoot”.

[empty bloom]

Also, the Harbinger, an Endless, displays a lot of traits consistent with Precursors and their weapon tech.

Kinda why I tend to think they're related closely in some way to precursors.

[versed helm]

Perhaps the first species meant to take the Mantle? They’d have to be special in some shape or manner compared to the other races

[empty bloom]

Her attacks are similar to the "Divine Hand" in Outcasts, directed 'flare' bursts; And her interactions with humans over prolonged time mirror catastrophic mental damage caused by logic plagues.

Hence my belief that being a cognitohazard is part and parcel of precursor, ah, 'reproduction', so to speak.

It's consistent with the flood, the primordial, et cetera.

[versed helm]

I wonder what the Harbinger’s role was in the Endless species. Her place of holding was a ways away from the main vault we see Atriox dig into…

[empty bloom]

I actually don't think it was 'intentional'.

In Outcasts, a doctor is exposed to, and healed by, Precursor nanites.

And they talk to her, more or less, and latch in her.

She is notably changed.

I think, as a species, the Endless were exposed in a similar process; Evolutionarily jumped forward and made into a vessel, unwittingly.

[versed helm]

I’m curious as to see if you will be correct

Everything sounds pretty legit

[empty bloom]

It'd fit thematically, is my biggest thing about it, IMO.

It's like why I actually like Cortana in 5 because it fits with Halo's themes of paths to hell being paved with good intentions and the 'cycles' of lifetimes.

(Cortana is more or less a clone of Halsey and makes a mistake that Halsey made in making the IIs; Committing atrocities to prevent more from happening. She even pointedly starts utilizing Halsey's own 'Halseyisms' in the end of the game for a reason.)

Mix themeing and notable similarities between entities, and know that most writers do not do these things by accident.

[versed helm]

Sounds about right. Cortana just takes it 4 levels higher with the Guardians and her whole “god-hood” shenanigans. She tries to redeem herself, but its honesty a needless sacrifice if the space monkey (Atriox) survives it

[empty bloom]

I'm not the biggest fan of Infinite's narrative, but that's mostly because there's things that got skipped that were super needed.

[versed helm]

Welp, I’m goin to sleep, it’s been fun talking to ya.

[empty bloom]

Have a nice sleep :>

[carmine sleet]

If I recall correctly, the encyclopaedia we got the other year referred to Harbinger as being a member of the ruling class of her species. So while she isn't necessarily the leader of her people, she most likely held allot of influence over them

[unique salmon]

any reccomendations on what halo audiobooks to listen (audible), i got bad blood, new blood, contact harvest, envoy, first strike, ghosts of onyx, legacy of onyx, shadows of reach (listening to rn) cole protocol, fall of reach and rubicon, havent listend to any in the last 2 years

[narrow tinsel]

Icl i love reading through this channel

[narrow tinsel]

I'm currently reading new blood and I'm quite enjoying it!

[unique salmon]

that follows the h3 odst odst squad right?

whats happens first, new or bad blood

[narrow tinsel]

Yeah it follows Alpha Nine and new blood is first out of the two

[unique salmon]

alr

[lavish frigate]

I recently played Halo Reach and Halo 3 and I have a question. What is the pod that we see on the ground at the beginning of Halo 3. Did MC use that as a heat shield or was he inside it? If he was inside it, did he fly off or out of it at the end? As I said, I haven't played Halo 2, but I watched the ending and I was still left a bit confused.

[carmine sleet]

Chief jumped out of the Forerunner Dreadnaught the Prophet of Truth needed to open the portal at Voi. Chief took a door with him and used it as a heatshield during his fall through the Earth's atmosphere

[lavish frigate]

Ahh, okay I see. Thanks.

[hardy swan]

Does anyone know what's the title for human ships not in the UNSC

[unique rune]

There’s not exactly a standard identifier. Mostly just depends on who operates the ship. CMA ship names are preceded by CMA. Sometimes ONI-specific vessels have their name preceded by ONI.

[versed helm]

Correct! I just checked it over since I own the deluxe version, and apparently she was one of a few sent to delegate with the Forerunners

[carmine sleet]

Aye, which begs the question, what happened to the others?

Or where are they is a better question

[versed helm]

I’m pretty sure we see that in the legendary ending

[carmine sleet]

I meant more specifically where the other leaders of the Endless are. I imagine that given the fact Harbinger was kept separate from the rest of her kind, they would be too

[versed helm]

Perhaps she was taken in for “experiments” while the others were locked away within the vault? Or perhaps they were killed off

For how advanced Forerunners are ,that can be some of the most undemocratic race of all😭 anything they don’t like, they destroy

[carmine sleet]

It's how they try to hold onto power

[versed helm]

Alright, so after a bit of research, I think I finally get the relationship between the Primordial and the Gravemind. The Gravemind is essentially a dog, and the Primordial is its trainer. The primordial, by uploading itself into the Hivemind, was essentially able to assume command over these creatures, as to how maybe it’s just because it’s a precursor

[versed helm]

But in the end, it all falls apart, oof

[carmine sleet]

As it should, the Forerunners were not as high and mighty as they liked to think they were. Their technology being as advanced as it was means nothing when they policed worlds they saw as "acting out" for not conforming to their ways

[versed helm]

Humans: we running from something
Forerunners: Don’t care. If you even sweat in our direction we will blast you back to the Stone Age (literally).

[hardy swan]

The ancients started nuking the forerunners first. Maybe they should have communicated instead but yeah

[versed helm]

My bad. But, like, better to talk it out than go bar for bar till you drive your opponent back to using rocks and sticks

[ancient thistle]

im now at halo odst is it the same year when then chief goes in slumber

and like the orc/guilty spark always calls master chief as the claimer of the forerunners

what is his affiliation with the forerunners

[wispy pewter]

And look at the 26th century humanity still stands and the forerunners are extinct

[obsidian thistle]

Halo: CE, 2, 3, 3: ODST, and Reach all happen in 2552.

[ancient thistle]

i thought reach was like way before

like where the covenant found out

started attacking

[obsidian thistle]

Nope. There is a book for that however!

Halo: Contact Harvest covers the initial first contact between Humanity and the Covenant

[hardy swan]

Wasn’t Reach like in 2552

[ancient thistle]

but if reach was the same year like the others

why werent any other spartans shown

i remember there were a lot of them

in reach

[stoic hamlet]

Yeppers!

[stoic hamlet]

It’s a big planet.

[ancient thistle]

wym

[stoic hamlet]

Exactly what I said, heh.

If you have a game or book or movie set in Europe, why would you expect to see anyone located in Asia, Africa or the Americas?

[ancient thistle]

what kind of analogy is that

im like asking what you mean its a big planet

i havent played the rest of the games i only know that reach is a planet

what im asking if they take place all in the same year why werent any spartans shown during ce to like 3

and mostly in the cutscens

soldiers were surprised a spartan shows up

[stoic hamlet]

You’re asking why other Spartans weren’t shown.

The answer is it’s a big planet, with a lot of places to be and not a lot of Spartans to go there,

Then extrapolate that to entire solar systems for CE-3.

If Chief is on Earth, in Africa (as he was in the opening levels of H3) why would we see or hear about a Spartan in London England? Never mind say, a Spartan on Saturn’s moon of Europa, or Titan.

During the entire 27 year long war, there were (at a total, maximum) only 1,150 or so Spartans. And that’s a high guess. More than likely the number was somewhere around 1,000 sharp.

But by the time of Halo Reach-H3, that number’s dropped to around 340, give or take.

[ancient thistle]

why couldn't they call when they were invading high charity or the big wars

im sure those were more important

[ancient thistle]

halo rings arent considered as planets

[stoic hamlet]

Travel time, and no access to FTL communications.

Halo isn’t like Star Trek, or Star Wars, if you want to send a message from Reach to Earth, say, warning of the Covenant attack, you must physically send a ship from Reach to Earth, and all that does is just give them the message, it doesn’t then mean there are ships able to be sent. Travel takes days just to go between planets inside a solar system, and weeks or months to go between solar systems.

We see this directly stated in Halo Reach itself. When the panic order is put out, 60% of UNSC fleet assets in Epsilon Endrani (Reach’s solar system) are diverted to Reach from the other planets and patrols. The closest battlegroup won’t arrive for 48 hours(2 days at best speed) as of the time a character asks.

[ancient thistle]

cant they go in hyperspace or only the covenant

[stoic hamlet]

They can (using Slipspace), but that’s the “weeks to months” aspect. It’s not instant, but it truncates the time down from “decades to centuries”

In-system jumps aren’t really a thing the UNSC can do reliably. And those also still take time.

[ancient thistle]

ok

and when will it be explained who the forerunners exactly are

i only know that they were ancient people who had greater technology than people have now currently and the covenant were trying to get their technology

and that the halo rings isnt a place where you can live but a self destructing weapon to wipe out all lifeforms in the galaxy

and that the ball machine thingy always calls chief as "reclaimer"

or something he has to do with the forerunners

[ripe chasm]

I understand that the precursors handed over the mantle of responsibility to humans

[ancient thistle]

the what

[ripe chasm]

the precursors

I have understood that the precursors were like a race above the forerunners

[ancient thistle]

who are they

[ripe chasm]

the flood

[ancient thistle]

werent the forerunners

humans

[ripe chasm]

I dont think so

[stoic hamlet]

Humans are an offshoot. A species branch.

Chimpanzees and Humans are both primates, but not the same species.

[ancient thistle]

im asking abt the forerunners

[carmine sleet]

The Forerunners are a separate but related species to humanity

[ancient thistle]

ok

[ripe chasm]

Forerunners and my Roblox account have something in common
They do not comply with the most basic rules

[hot zodiac]

Best advice is to play through the trilogy and conclude for yourself.

Then move on to the others if you choose.

[ripe chasm]

and if you have time, see the terminals too

[prisma orbit]

So why was the forerunner species tryna get rid of flood other than the fact its a parasite that I want to burn again

[carmine sleet]

Because the Flood could wipe out all life in the galaxy

Like, the Flood isn't like the other species in the galaxy, one spore could wipe out a species if allowed to

You can't reason with it to spare your people, it will come for them and turn them into more bodies to infect and utilise against you

[spice crystal]

One spore could wipe out an entire galaxy easily if it had the chance

[wispy pewter]

hard lesson learnt by the forerunners after they turned humans into ooga boogas

[sonic lagoon]

What experiments did Faber do to humans?

[versed helm]

I’m pretty sure he literally infected them with the flood to find a cure

The palace o’ pain

[steady wedge]

Born stellar is such a cool character

Wish we had some artwork depicting him

The forerruner trilogy of books is goated AF

[obsidian thistle]

https://www.halopedia.org/IsoDidact

There ya go

[steady wedge]

Poggers

[fast heron]

Would the banished have an executioner?

[orchid kettle]

Probably not honestly

Like you'd have an executioner in your lil medieval village because somebody's gotta hang that poacher, but they'd be a social outcast due to the grim nature of their work and the fact that they may one day have to execute you if you ever broke the law.

But I don't think the Jiralhanae would really balk at a Chieftain carrying out executions personally. If anything it'd probably be expected of them.

[empty bloom]

Given the hard, post-apocalyptic nature of brute life pre-Covenant, I wager that killing the offending party is left more to the Chieftain or one of his lieutenants, yeah.

Considering nobody even blinked at Jega threatening Tremonius.

[teal forum]

https://youtu.be/8Xg57jJR2YA?si=CEqmMSI98i0oYZOP
I miss the Forerunner shotty. Bouncing that around corners to hit hiding enemies was a blast.

[spice crystal]

That did not sound appropriate at first lol

[teal forum]

Wait how did that not sound appropriate it lmao. The Scattershot shots can bounce off walls so you would shoot at a wall at the right angle before rounding the corner.

[spice crystal]

Ik but i read that out of context for some reason.

Read it with out to - blast

And no period

[sonic lagoon]

Did the UNSC ever use attack dogs or others dangerous animals to fight their enemies?

[strange pumice]

I already imagine the situation
Dog, or whatever dangerous animal
Attacking banished outpost
That would be hilarious
But in serious, I'm pretty sure that they are not using animals for war

Like, they have very well trained soldiers

Like Spartans, marines and ODST's

So it will be strange to use animals on battlefield

[sonic lagoon]

More in relation to desperation.

[high elbow]

Probably not intentionally, but I wouldn’t be surprised if a dog living on outpost would try and defend soliders if they’re under attack. I don’t think they’d be particularly effective against any Banished or Covenant forces except maybe Jackals

[strange pumice]

Actually, I would've loved to see that Spartans, marines or ODST'S would have their own pets, like cats or dogs
It's the best psychological help for soldiers

[hardy swan]

They are good against insurrectionists or smelling bombs perhaps

But never heard of them in lore

[glacial coral]

I understand why the Flood would come back to Halo lore in the future. But honestly, I'm relieved that it's gone for now. I f***ing hate the Flood.

[high elbow]

I don’t know about dogs, but I think cats living on space ships has been mentioned?

[sonic lagoon]

The UNSC could also use suicide bomber dogs, like the ones on Modern Warfare 3.

[hardy swan]

PETA would like a word

[carmine sleet]

Yeah we're not gonna be seeing dogs with bombs strapped on them in Halo

[high elbow]

Suicide Bomber Grunts: ✅
Suicide Bomber Dogs: ❌

[hardy swan]

If it’s an alien dog species then it’s fine ig

I wonder if humans ever domesticated alien animals

[sonic lagoon]

They probably don’t exist in the 2500s. Plus ONI probably lay wouldn’t care even if they did exist.

[sonic lagoon]

Oh yeah they could that.

[carmine sleet]

Ask yourself this, do any current governments deploy dogs with explosives strapped to them? You'll find the answer is no because it's inhumane

[high elbow]

I don’t see they would though. A drone or even robot would be much better than sending Fido or even alien Fido

[carmine sleet]

That's not to say that governments aren't doing shady things with questionable morals but humanity doesn't really go in on the whole "Let's strap bombs to our pets" thing

[stoic hamlet]

It’s also just not really viable, even if it was considered humane

[carmine sleet]

Indeed

[high elbow]

Adding onto this, aren’t brutes known for having a strong sense of smell? I’m pretty sure they could sniff out a couple of dogs rushing at their fortifications. Especially if they have some kind of explosive taped onto them

[hardy swan]

They always mention they can smell humans

[carmine sleet]

If they can smell humans, they can definitely smell dogs

[hardy swan]

Though suicide drones would be a good idea. Whatever the Mjnir self kaboom uses can kill brute chieftains

[strange pumice]

FPV drones are good for that

[carmine sleet]

Mjolnir armour self destruct utilises the armour's power system, I doubt the UNSC is looking to make bombs out of those any time soon

Especially when they have things just as effective at killing Chieftains without the need of blowing up someone's armour

[sonic lagoon]

Logic plaque.

Maybe, not sure.

Or they could be hacked.

[high elbow]

Do the Banished have that sort of technical skill as far as we know? Outside of Iratus, they don’t seem like the most code-savvy organization. Use of shock type defenses would make more sense rather than a logic plague. Unless they manipulate forerunner equipment, but that would seriously vary on a case by case basis

[sonic lagoon]

Yeah. Plus suicide animals would be cheaper. Use em against tanks like the Soviets tried to do in WW2 but make em work effectively with better technology

[high elbow]

Again, using live animals is arguably less effective than drones or even dropping tungsten rods from low orbit. Literally the only benefit an animal would provide is that you cannot hack into a dog’s brain.

Live critters wouldn’t even be too much cheaper if at all. Until they get deployed, you still need to feed them, train them, and make sure they don’t randomly get sick.

[carmine sleet]

The Banished are pretty good at interfacing with Forerunner tech, we see this on both the Ark and Zeta Halo. It's how they got through so many of the locked doors

[high elbow]

Oh yeah. I somehow forgot about the banished presence on the ark

[carmine sleet]

Logic plague isn't just some ability anyone can access. We're not gonna be seeing Banished Brutes logic plaguing dogs to make them blow up their owners

[carmine sleet]

To be fair, we haven't had much about what's going on over at the Ark since the Waypoint Chronicle from last year

[stoic hamlet]

It’s also not even an ability. It’s more just long-form debating.

[carmine sleet]

Indeed

[orchid kettle]

Let 'Volir continues to scream into an uncaring void

[carmine sleet]

He's upset the Brute with a similar sounding voice to his is the one Atriox took to Zeta Halo

[unique rune]

I don’t get what animals with bombs strapped to them achieves that desperate Unggoy with plasma grenades doesn’t already

[sonic lagoon]

Or other animals could work too.

[sonic lagoon]

Didn’t Insurrectionists use human suicide bombers?

[spice crystal]

Yes

[spice crystal]

I forgot wich book but a suicide bomber blew up a bar and killed i believe 2 odsts. I forgot wich planet, someone can help fill in the blanks but yes they did.

[fast heron]

Fun question: if many more humans joined the banished, and the brutes destroyed earth, do you think they would be pissed? Or call it even for destroying doisac

[spice crystal]

That and "serves the UNSC right" because the banished would most likely have alligned interests with the rogue humans/insurrectionist

[hardy swan]

Any human that joins the banished doesn’t like earth anyway

[stoic hamlet]

It was a restaurant on Tribute. The blast killed a dozen civilians and (potentially) 4 ORION soldiers.

There was another bombing from another book, but it’s not clear if it was a suicide bomb. Likely a pre-planned IED. That mostly targeted CMA marines.

[sonic lagoon]

What type of clothes did a typical colonist wear?

[hardy swan]

Short skirt and high heels

[high elbow]

Never any shirts or tops though. That’s why they rebelled, they wanted to wear more clothes

[sonic lagoon]

That’s definitely a hole lot of a response, like a halo, it hangs low.

[stoic hamlet]

Real puritan hours, amirite?

[spice crystal]

Thats what it was, thank you.

[versed helm]

“Happy Birthday Master Chief!🎉
From the battlefields of Reach to the stars beyond, Master Chief has always been humanity's greatest hero.
Drop a 👑 to celebrate the legend!” - Halo Official account, YouTube

I wonder if Weapon and Esperanza would do anything special for Master Chief on his birthday?

[fair hazel]

That'd be an interesting interaction, I doubt John has celebrated birthdays much so that would make for something, interesting to talk about

Maybe the pilot dropping off a vehicle saying, here's my present

[versed helm]

I’d imagine it be some sort of custom painted thing, courtesy of the marines. A Birthday cake is as out of the question as Tartarus resurrecting and baking said cake.

[sonic lagoon]

Was the design for Emile inspired by Ghost from modern warfare 2? Imagine ghost riding a ghost.

The soundtrack also sounds really similar to modern warfare in some parts.

[spice crystal]

I dont think so, a skull is "universally" "cool". And it being engraved on his helmet metaphorically means "i stare death in the face all the time"

[sonic lagoon]

Probably but lots of franchises always share though.

I just like finding sources.

[spice crystal]

Yeah

[spice crystal]

Did you know noble teams death correspond with their specialties?

[empty bloom]

@woven plaza

CARTER

DAH LEEDUR

[woven plaza]

CAT

THE BWAINS

[steel aurora]

the sniper survives!!11!

[spark pivot]

Emile fails CQC

Jorge gets blown up as the grenadier

And Six died alone

[hardy swan]

And Jun survived till June

[stoic hamlet]

JUN

DUH SNIPAH

[dusk jetty]

Emily

Dah skeletun

[empty bloom]

What's funny to me is that literally the entire game, Emile is the one who actually does all the classical Grenadier type stuff.

While Jorge is just... Jorge.

[spice crystal]

A heavy

Weapon specialist

[empty bloom]

A machine gunner.

[spice crystal]

Yeah essentially

Rockets too

[empty bloom]

He never uses rockets, so... No?

[spice crystal]

Emile died in close quarters bc thats his specialty, kat is the brains so took a needler round to the head, carter is the leader so he went down with the ship, jorge is a heavy specialist so he died in a "heavy" explosion, and six was a lone wolf, he liked to do stuff on his own.

[spice crystal]

Not that we see.

[empty bloom]

In case it wasn't clear, this (very... Charitable perspective) was being mocked.

Because it's stupid.

[vague bronze]

I wish 10 years old me could appreciate the irony of their deaths like adult me does

[spice crystal]

Fr

It was a great death for them.

[unique rune]

DON’T YOU SEE

HE GOES DOWN WITH THE SHIP

DEEP AND MATURE AND COMPLEX STORYTELLING RIGHT THERE

[hardy swan]

Wait until Master Chief dies to dumb luck

A grunt accidentally drops a plasma nade

[empty bloom]

Biggest trick Reach ever played.

[last anchor]

Is that a Dixie cup?

[empty bloom]

Milkshake. Because I bring all the boys to the yard.

[last anchor]

Damn right its better than yours

[stoic hamlet]

Trench can teach you but they’d have to charge.

[carmine sleet]

https://tenor.com/view/dandadan-dumbfounded-momo-ayase-ayase-momo-ken-takakura-gif-14575386895602202640

[shell owl]

The more I read the lore post covenant war, the more confused on how dumb everyone is in it.

[versed helm]

carmine ?

what on earth are u doing here?

[shell owl]

It's just a profile picture

[versed helm]

ik ik

[shell owl]

One of the things I mean is the human insurrectionists post war deciding unpause the their war with UEG and later joining the banished. Plus the whole created uprising didn't make sense and went by too quickly

Plus made ONI into a cartoon illuminate whereas before it was a morally grey intelligence organisation that served the UEG

[empty bloom]

Alright, so a few notes.

[empty bloom]

• Just because the immediate threat has passed does not mean that the grievances that you put on hold ended. And in many postwar cases, the UEG would attempt to flex what little power it had for economic interests, thereby giving the Insurrectionists reason to continue insurrecting. Additionally, the power vacuum left by the waning UEG meant that several independent powers started to rise outside of UEG jurisdiction, becoming sovereign entities in their own right.

• Due to necessity, a lot of people who may not hold real sympathies or allegiance to the UEG were put into positions that are detrimental to UEG state security. This means they are insider threats.

• The human insurrectionists were taking actions to hurt the UEG as late as 2552-the last year of the war. They were more interested in ousting the UEG than they ever were in anything else. The UEG losing was a net boon for them because they did not see the war as humanity versus Covenant for the most part, they saw it as the UEG versus the Covenant; Which the Covenant also exploited through spycraft. This is not a 343i retcon either, this is something that happened when Bungie was still the primary driver of canon.

• The Created Uprising is ongoing but severely damaged. Personally, I think they crippled it too much.

[empty bloom]

ONI is still a morally gray faction with heavy streaks of black and that has literally never changed in the entirety of canon. One of ONI's very first actions in the entire franchise, literally in the book Fall of Reach, is kidnapping children. To say that's not borderline cartoonishly evil is poor comprehension that reflects poorly on your morality, subjectively speaking.

[shell owl]

Might need to read some lore again.

[shell owl]

You have to admit 343 didn't handle the Covenant remnants well.

[empty bloom]

On what grounds do I have to agree?

The worst is the name and Chief/Cortana's reaction in 4 to a religious organization splintering, as they tend to do after a major power upset; the rest is whatever.

[shell owl]

Only in one game and we're practically the same as the orginal, the books on the other hand did explore the varies covenant factions.

[empty bloom]

Were. It's were. Not We Are.

[empty bloom]

The Covenant Remnant exists in Halo 4, 5, and Spartan Assault; The first two under Jul's sect, the third under Merg Vol.

And like most splinter religious and political factions, they're pretend claimants to the original throne, a'la the various forms of (Pretender) Roman empires after Rome fell.

[shell owl]

Was there any insurrectionist factions that used diplomacy with UEG post war

[empty bloom]

Multiple, usually at gunpoint. Insurrectionists were not keen to return to the UEG and the UEG wanted them to return under heel more than it wanted to bring them into cooperation.

[shell owl]

That's a bit dumb, UEG should have focused on earth and the inner colonies, cause alot of the outer colonies were gonna secede eventually.

[empty bloom]

Sovereign powers usually don't like losing their holdings and will jealously hold and guard them-and that behavior is literally what caused the insurrection in the first place.

Fictional governments, much like real world governments, do not operate logically or benevolently unless those align with their goals. They operate at the will of the ruling organization, which is frequently focused more on resource and power consolidation. Machiavellian politics don't die easy.

[shell owl]

I think the created uprising would have been more interesting if it was an internal coup of the UEG

[empty bloom]

I don't, mostly because the standard template insurrectionist uprising is boring as hell and I'd be bored to tears of a hardline "Chief goes Rogue" story that would surely go with that plot.

[shell owl]

Also 343 should take the leap and introduce human enemies in the games

[shell owl]

I was more going for a UEG civil war approach

[empty bloom]

Like any addition to a game, the question is 'why'.

There's ways to make human enemies work in a game (Hell, I'd say Jannissaries are one way they're likely gearing to), but still.

[shell owl]

And insurrectionists have mainly been in the books, id rather see them in game and it would visually show things aren't as simple as humans vs aliens but something more complicated

[empty bloom]

Halo fans are an anethema to complication.

Much like any franchise, the fans claim to want complicated and emotionally/politically/narratively complex themes, but lack the actual intuition, care, and open-mindedness required to actually care about a follow through.

See: people not getting Halo 5 figuratively grabbing a piece of rebar and mercilessly beating the player's skull in with "Cortana is a clone of Halsey, which is why she is doing the Halsey things" and people stubbornly insisting that her doing so is 'character assassination' anyways.

Or people thinking Parangosky has any reason, whatsoever, to cede any amount of guilt for anything Halsey did when Parangosky holds literally all the cards in Glasslands.

Or people getting angry about Del Rio 'disrespecting' Chief when Del Rio has all the reason in the world to actually say and do what he does in Halo 4.

Or people not understanding why you're fighting Elites again in Halo 4/5.

There's dozens more. Point is, fiction nerds usually suck at actually caring about the nuances of the fiction they consume.

[shell owl]

Some very vocal fans.

It's not just halo but other stuff as well are playing it too safe. They need to start taking risks

[empty bloom]

Oh, no, it's absolutely the majority of fans.

[spark pivot]

Yeah that was kinda scuffed

[empty bloom]

The narrative framing of the event paints Del Rio as being in the wrong, being charitable.

[spark pivot]

Like if they actually tried to arrest chief he prob woulda gone quietly, but no one is gonna try to touch the 7'+ guy who can pancake you instantly

[spark pivot]

What he tried to do was wrong, but chief wasnt right for going awol either

[empty bloom]

So like, OTOH, I kinda get why some think Del Rio's wrong, but... The guy's kinda right to be cautious fighting the Didact the way Chief wanted.

Guy just got humbled hard.

[spark pivot]

Relating to cortana tho that made sense

[empty bloom]

They literally had to retroactively add a law that made Del Rio in the wrong, lmao

[spark pivot]

The whole, we needa delete cortana who is quite literally tripping out, made perfect sense

[spark pivot]

Wait really?

[empty bloom]

Yeah. A bit after 4 came out-I think around when 5 did but before Infinite did-there was a quiet little lore snippet added about some legal reason why you can't just delete an AI the way Del Rio wanted.

[spark pivot]

Lol

[empty bloom]

Which to me is just silly petty from whatever lore guy decided to do that.

[spark pivot]

Tbf it makes sense in a way, bc they're about as close to being human as you can be without, well, being human, but yeah that's kinda scuffed

[empty bloom]

I remember back before 5 came out wondering why people hated Del Rio so much because I was kind of in total agreement with him.

Like, guy kinda has a point with Cortana, folks, why do y'all dislike this guy

Del Rio's gotta feel hella validated during the Pax Cortana/Created Crisis.

[spark pivot]

I get why, but unless you look at it from a chain of command perspective, its easy to get miffy about it, especially when its a percieved disrespect to chief

[empty bloom]

Chief's an SNCO out of line, but I didn't even think of it from a chain perspective, I thought of it from a logic perspective.

The Infinity, a top of the line flagship, just got casually dropped out of the sky like a Forge object, and Chief wants to use it to take the fight to god's own anti-humanity rage meditation orb?

Is he crazy in a bad way?

[spark pivot]

Fair, but chief doesnt know how scuffed forerunner tech is yet

As far as he's concernd its just another covie level threat

[empty bloom]

Del Rio was right to be spooked, and his biggest crime was trying to arrest Chief over the disagreement. He should've spent a relative pittance of resources (A few Pelicans of Spartans or something), and dipped to warn FLEETCOMM.

"The Infinity's the fastest ship in the fleet, Chief. If you fail, we need Fleetcomm to be prepared. I'll give you a few Fireteams, they'll be on Hanger Bay 3. Godspeed, Spartan."

[fast heron]

True

[neon remnant]

Finished the fall of reach book. But I did notice the next book is The Flood and isn't by the same author. Should I skip it and read Ghosts of Onyx instead? Or should I just stay reading in order

[latent junco]

I'd stay in reading order

Different author doesn't mean different storyline too

[spark pivot]

Stay in reading order

[unique rune]

I think The Flood is arguably kinda optional
it’s mostly a novelization of CE
and the new parts don’t directly tie in with the Nylund books either

I would recommend following publication order but if you choose to read it later you’ll probably be fine

[wispy pewter]

because it's different getting shot by lead instead of plasma

the main job of the Spartan II program and there aren't even any innie enemies in any game to kill

[spice crystal]

Not really, kind of but it goes into better detail. Always read them in order.

[stoic hamlet]

If you skip the flood the next book is First Strike, then Ghosts of Onyx.

[neon remnant]

Ah ok. Thnx 👍

[spice crystal]

Dont skip. They are all good books and deserve to be read in order

[hardy swan]

I skipped all of Nylund books

[unique rune]

I mean as much as I think release order is generally the ideal way to go through stuff, The Flood ends up being kind of a weird gap narratively between the Nylund books

It’s very much something that I think might be better served read separately rather than in exact sequence, especially if CE’s campaign is relatively fresh in your memory

[spice crystal]

The order they go in for lore is as follows

Fall of reach, the flood, first strike, gohsts of onyx, contact harvest, cole protocol , broken circle, new blood, hunters in the dark, saints testimony, glasslands, Thursday war, mortal dictata, bad blood, fractures, renegades, envoy, retribution,legacy of onyx, silent storm, oblivion, shadows of reach, point of light, divine wind, Rubicon protocol, edge of dawn empty throne, epipath,

[neon remnant]

Didnt the events of harvest take place before the fall of reach? Unless the title is misleading?

Or im just missing something

[spice crystal]

No your right

Cantact harvest i believe is like a "flashback" correct me if im wrong.

[stoic hamlet]

It did/does.

the “issue” is that due to how Halo’s been written, you’re ideally meant to read the books as they release. They’re not technically a continuous series (after Ghosts of Onyx) but each book expands on and further exemplifies the ones before in small ways, no matter what book it is.

[obsidian thistle]

An important note is this however...

The Original Series (The Fall of Reach, The Flood, First Strike, and Ghost of Onyx) is pretty much the foundations of the universe outside the games.

Outside a personal recommendation to read that first you are able to go anywhere. BUT for series it helps to start at the start of one before ya go onto another.

Like you wanna read New Blood before you read Bad Blood for example.

And a lotta people opt to read The Forerunner Saga and the Kilo-5 Trilogy together anyway despite the fact they released alongside each other per release.

[hardy swan]

Does anyone know if the UNSC ever used abandoned Covenant ships

[wispy pewter]

Covie cruiser in UNSC green when

[carmine sleet]

Not really abandoned but the UNSC did briefly control the Ascendant Justice during the events of First Strike

[hardy swan]

That’s cool. They should do it more often

[unique rune]

they probably would have if they had more opportunities to do so

naval engagements pretty much always ended with either the UNSC losing mega hard or the Covenant ships being damaged beyond usefulness or getting scuttled

[sonic lagoon]

Did Spartans use odst armor until the battle of reach in the original book?

[carmine sleet]

No

[sonic lagoon]

I remember a lot of people saying that in 2010. They seemed like idiots to me.

[last anchor]

They used it during the Extraction of Watts

That was the only mission they didn't have MJLONIR for

[orchid kettle]

They just had some unnamed "black body suit" with helmets, which the comic depicted as ODST helmets

in the animated adaptation the helmets are different again

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah it’s not really ODST gear.

It was a skintight bodyglove with a helmet.

[spice crystal]

Remember keyes was an ODST as well.

When he captained the midnight summer

[stoic hamlet]

He wasn’t an ODST.

He was a Navy Lieutenant, at the time.

ODST’s are marines.

[sonic lagoon]

Yeah I just remember back in 2010 when halo reach released how so many commenters were saying “Spartans didn’t get MJLONIR until the battle of reach, they wore ODST armor until that point” type of arguments. I assume folks then were just drawing too much from what little source material was available at the time.

[stoic hamlet]

There was quite a lot of source material though.

The first book ever released, before the first game, even shows they get MJOLNIR in 2525.

[empty bloom]

The first mistake is assuming Halo fans know their own canon.

(They don't and never have)

[stoic hamlet]

If they could read they’d be very upset.

[wispy pewter]

👍🏻

[orchid kettle]

sorry i only get my lore from tiktok where an ai voice regurgitates random story anecdotes at me

[empty bloom]

Clearly, you are a bonafide lore expert. I bow down and defer to your unrivaled knowledge.

[hardy swan]

I can listen to Kammyshep all day

[steel aurora]

I wouldn’t expect the average halo fan to read 30 plus novels

[dusk jetty]

They could try, reading is good anger management

[spice crystal]

Yes he was, he went on an op on the midnight summer and had to blow up the side of the ship and wear ODST gear to escape, later he was given the "ODST tattoo"

Sorry for responding late

[carmine sleet]

Keyes isn't an ODST

[stoic hamlet]

All good.

But that doesn’t make him an ODST, lol

[carmine sleet]

He got the tattoo because he saved ODSTs and it was their way of saying thanks

[stoic hamlet]

^^^

[spice crystal]

He earned their respect

He was considered one of them by them.

[stoic hamlet]

That doesn’t make him an ODST though. He doesn’t have the training or credentials.

Because Veta Lopis wore SPI armour for a single operation, does that make her a Spartan III?

[spice crystal]

I mean technically he could be officially but that would be a demotion.

[carmine sleet]

If I saved a Firefighter from a burning building and earned the respect of their team, does that make me a Firefighter?

[spice crystal]

That depends, are you a rando civilian?

Also his tattoo, maijor fasion said "if you ever need help, show any ODST that, and they'll help you".

[carmine sleet]

That doesn't make him an ODST

[spice crystal]

Not officially

[carmine sleet]

And yes, I am a "rando civilian"

[spice crystal]

Then no, you wouldnt be a firefighter

But keyes was on track to become a highly decorated naval official, if needed he could do the job of an ODST.

[carmine sleet]

You recognise the irony here in you saying one person who isn't a thing helping a specific group is now one of that group, then saying that if I hypothetically did the same with another specific group, I wouldn't count as part of that group, right?

[spice crystal]

No, they are different situations.

If i played baseball with pro players, and i was a pro basketball player i wouldnt be a pro baseball player. However, if i as sergent johnson, saved a group of ODST's and earned theyre recognition tattoo, then i already know how to do their job and could serve besides them as one of them.

[stoic hamlet]

He could definitely not do the job of an ODST, no.

When the Autumn goes down on 04, Keyes gripes to his Marine security detail that he’s not cut out for groundwork, meanwhile the Autumn’s ODST battalion is butchering Covenant without breaking a sweat.

He doesn’t have the training, drive, or career for what ODST’s do.

[spice crystal]

Yeah, because with his marines he is safer, his odsts are better than your average marine and are therefore fighting more difficult battles. If needed keyes could use his tactical knowledge and create a plan to survive soley on his surrondings.

[carmine sleet]

Right but he doesn't have the training to be an ODST

Like, you don't just slap on the armour, jump into a drop pod and become one, you need actual training to be one

[stoic hamlet]

No, The Flood makes it clear Keyes’ marine detail are the ones doing the actual work to keep him and the command crew safe. Keyes is completely out of his depth and element on the ground and basically just does what Corporal Wilkins (the highest ranking marine present at the time) says.

[spice crystal]

Thats because he is up against a new enemy and doesnt have the forces to fight a war on two fronts

[carmine sleet]

Keyes wasn't fighting against a new foe on Alpha Halo until he reached the containment facility

But by that point, the Covenant weren't a direct threat to him and there was Flood infection forms attacking his squad and him

[orchid kettle]

Also the scene in the Cole Protocol is just meant to highlight Keyes' deductive reasoning and lateral thinking

There's no combat prowess that's being displayed

Contact Harvest also points out how drop troopers need special training to withstand the intense g-force of re-entry

[stoic hamlet]

There’s a reason ODST’s are all volunteer and considered suicidal.

[orchid kettle]

if bro cant orbital drop and isn't a shock trooper, he ain't no ODST

shrimple as

[high elbow]

He was an honorary ODST but I think that’s where the buck stops

[orchid kettle]

nah buck wasnt in this story

[empty bloom]

https://tenor.com/view/halo-5-buck-halo-5-buck-salto-gif-7925719087907981476

Buck leaving before he can get involved in Keyes' story like

[orchid kettle]

honestly after silent storm I wouldnt be surprised if we just leaned more into the idea that the halo universe is just like 20 dudes who all know each other.

[empty bloom]

... Fair point. Ugh.

Franchise as wide and deep as a shoebox these days.

[orchid kettle]

i still hold there's a decent enough narrative reason for Rion to be related to some existing character, since said existing character is dead and that creates this sense of dramatic irony since we know Rion's quest is doomed from the start

but man, they really didnt do anything with the idea of Cutter having some estranged son who hated his guts

or for that matter, the idea that Drake and Hood know each other.

[empty bloom]

I'll admit that I am kinda chill with making a parent-child relationship in a franchise so openly hostile, tbh.

Like, having Cutter unironically kinda be a deadbeat dad is a bold move for a guy who is also a hero to his men.

... And kinda realistic for military men, in my experience. Well-liked at work, hated at home.

[orchid kettle]

There is some weird trend in fiction to try and make cookie cutter heroic male protags more complex by making them bad dads

To me it always feels like something you have to build into the character from the get-go

[empty bloom]

Write what you know, IG.

[obsidian thistle]

Didnt help he was MIA for most of said kids life also tbf.

[empty bloom]

Tis true. Some of that rage is misplaced.

[obsidian thistle]

For all we know Cutter intended to be honorable... but ultimately couldn't

Honestly, I kinda wanna see the reunion

See if Cutter can explain? Or if the kid is just too far gone.

[empty bloom]

Well, kid's likely in prison for life lmao.

He was responsible for a lot of death that day.

[obsidian thistle]

A part of me thinks his story isn't over

Like its too juicy to leave it as that

[orchid kettle]

What was the explanation behind the sparrowhawks and vultures being from the SoF again

was it just a case of spoofing the ID to spook Hood because he blames himself for the SoF's disappearance

[last anchor]

Same goes for Hood and that dude Zane murdered

And also, Cole

[spare kite]

The subreddit being so tribal will always be entertaining. Got downvoted for saying that no Blue team in Operation Talon was not used to kill innocent civilians, but that the goal of the mission was to capture Watts lol, and that the deaths that came from the detonation from Sam does not change that.

[orchid kettle]

That wasnt the goal, no, but Chief himself describes the mission as a failure because so many non-combatants were killed during Blue Team's escape.

[empty bloom]

In a cosmic sense it's very funny that ONI made a team of black-ops killers and then somehow forgot to make them totally fine with killing literally anyone.

[stoic hamlet]

We have enough evidence to show that II’s absolutely did kill non combatants if they could be justified in doing so, in the sense that utilitarian pragmatism wins over morality.

One of Omega’s armour pieces from Infinite mentions they killed people with knives, lol. And Empty Throne has Grey Team ||show absolutely no issue with killing Hood, Osman, and Orzel if they needed to.||

[orchid kettle]

I still hold that Chief was meant to be uniquely compassionate in Fall of Reach

and then he kinda just became "The Average Spartan-II" so its just assumed now that all traits he exhibited are shared by the rest of them

[empty bloom]

This, kinda.

Like, they tend to be portrayed as being more human than he is, IMO. Grey Team notwithstanding.

[orchid kettle]

I dunno, it makes sense to me that the hero of our story should be the one child soldier that still has some semblance of a conscious, as opposed to just being real good at killing or lucky or whatever

[empty bloom]

IMO that's one of the reasons I'm glad Spartan numbers have gone up so stiffly. You get a whole range of supersoldier styles in one franchise, none of which are same-y.

[orchid kettle]

they kinda did this in the show actually, didnt they. Of course my issue is that the conscious is brought on by a magic space rock and not some immutable quality that was always there.

[stoic hamlet]

Even Jorge’s empathy was seemingly specific towards Reach.

Kurt meanwhile was empathetic, but I doubt he’d actually have a moral quandary with killing a civilian or unarmed Innie if there was some perceived justification.

I’ve always seen it as they wouldn’t like, go out of their way, but they’d do it if they needed to.

“I’ll do what’s necessary sir.” As Jun says to Carter, and all that.

[spare kite]

Absolutely and I would never deny that. But the assertion of the mission and over all use of Blue team being solely being about killing innocent civilians is just utterly untrue, and is just so untrue that it has left me befuddled.

[empty bloom]

It would've turned into it, honestly.

There's only one use for hyperelite supersoldier assassins being used by an organization well-accustomed to wet work.

Hell, they allude to it through armor canon in Infinite-that there are things like Spartans, but not, that ONI sets loose that excel in false flag and terror operations.

[spare kite]

I think you're commenting to my post on reddit lol

[stoic hamlet]

Even ignoring that one armour set (because it’s IMO a bit too on the nose) we’ve known Spartan II’s and III’s are utterly, emotionlessly pragmatic since basically the beginning. They’re not cruel, just, you know… driven.

[orchid kettle]

Still real sad that, at the time, the biggest thing you ever saw ODSTs do in the post-war era was mow down some protestors in HtT season 2 episode 1

fun fact: the M7S submachine gun has been depicted in two separate civilian massacres

[stoic hamlet]

There’s a ton of stuff I hate about HTT, and how it flanderizes ONI is probably the biggest one.

[orchid kettle]

the first time was in ODST when the NMPD opened fire on civvies

[empty bloom]

Honestly I find it a little amusing that there was an implication that they don't have IVs willing to go that far too. I've met enough IRL Special Forces folks to know you'd have no shortage of uh, well, psychos.

[orchid kettle]

I still dont understand season 2

how was FERO a plant when she murdered two ONI agents

[empty bloom]

Nonononono guys you don't getit HTT was flawless and way better than anything else post-4.

[orchid kettle]

I mean season 1 is fine, at least as long as you dont believe the idea that Ben was strung along the entire time and the whole story was ONI's perfectly planned keikaku

because honestly thats always a dumb storytelling decision

[empty bloom]

At least those guys were literally ripped limb from limb by an angry mob.

[spare kite]

Not surprised. Cant exactly recall to where I heard or saw it, but SOF doing shady stuff and it getting sweeped under the rug isnt some made up thing.

[stoic hamlet]

You see it all over.

[empty bloom]

You will find no shortage of it for almost any nation's special forces in any timeframe.

[spare kite]

I think I saw a podcast somewhere about how the Seals were really known for doing off the cuff stuff. I think its a podcast ep with that one bald guy.

[empty bloom]

Seals are among the worst of the worst, and they're overpaid podcasting braggarts to boot. There's a reason I really don't like them.

I don't even listen to the podcasts, I've just talked to a few and bought a few books.

[orchid kettle]

The only navy seal anecdote I think about is the one where they tried to kidnap a guy as part of some exercise, and the guy's wife saw them and was about to kill them if the guy didn't tell her to stop.

smh they woulda saw her if they activated their detective vision

[empty bloom]

The one that stuck with me is MSgt John Chapman's treatment, where the Navy effectively blackmailed the Air Force into giving the Seals responsible accolades for Chapman's abandonment to give him a medal of honor posthumously.

[thorn spindle]

i only have 1 good friend who is a seal so idk much about them

[empty bloom]

Basically they stonewalled any attempt to give MSgt Chapman's sacrifice merit until the Seals responsible for his abandonment and subsequent death were also given medals.

[orchid kettle]

I feel like between martial art gurus and the obsession with navy seals, there's this weird prevailing misconception that with enough training, you can just become an invincible superhuman badass

[stoic hamlet]

Canada had a really, really bad case of it in the mid 90’s.

Not an excuse, but there’s some theories about that the Canadian Paras were basically trained for a total war scenerio, based on the early lineage of the SAS and Devil’s Brigade, and headhunted guys from the regular army to then further indoctrinate them into that mentality. They were never really meant for the roles they ended up being put into, and well, they kinda went stir crazy with a massive chip on their shoulders.

[empty bloom]

It's an extension of grifting culture and machismo.

Pride is a hell of a drug to give to a young man, and that ego trip makes you do some ugly stuff.

[versed helm]

machismo?

u meant sexism?

[empty bloom]

Basically 'male pride', that explicitly idolizes the unhealthy aspects of masculinity. So yeah, sexism.

[stoic hamlet]

Even their CO was like “do not send them overseas, these guys are not good and should never be deployed in this way.”

They got sent overseas and deployed.

Thankfully Canada took accountability and disbanded the entire regiment, so that’s nice.

[versed helm]

sexism

[empty bloom]

I know Aussie SAS got a penchant for icing POWs.

[versed helm]

cause i don’t think people will understand machismo (since it’s a spanish word)

[empty bloom]

And... I really don't want to say what Russian special forces have done.

But it's bad.

Like, exceptionally, exceptionally bad.

[spare kite]

Theres actually a really good article about this ima see if I can find it

[empty bloom]

I know, and have known, a few friends in Ukraine's military. There are some stories I heard that are... Not great.

[orchid kettle]

I still think about that one anime where the author created a scenario where green berets and spetsnaz operators were trying to infiltrate Japan and they got smoked by the JDF

Like, just hilariously self-fellating

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah, that’s not uncommon even among regular forces.

“Canada rewrote the Geneva conventions” is only partially a joke, lol. The CEF was bad in WW1.

[empty bloom]

Might want to police the terms, though I know what you mean.

[spare kite]

Gate? lol

[empty bloom]

My mind went to Ghost in the Shell tbh

[orchid kettle]

Yeah gate

[versed helm]

let’s go danmark armyy rahh Hæren

[orchid kettle]

I remember people were hyping it up as like, fantasy monsters vs the military

But at least what I saw, it was purely JDF propaganda

Like, they had no issues whatsoever.

[spare kite]

the mangaka actually believes that the JSDF is the best military in the world so u aint off

[orchid kettle]

and at that point the what if vs battle is kinda lame if one side just smokes the other without competition

[stoic hamlet]

It was intentionally written as such.

[empty bloom]

That said on my thoughts on Spartans, on the other hand, I do actually like how they, for the most part, have been characterized as being relatively unique of character for fictional supersoldiers, with a lot having an air of noblesse oblige instead of disdain or frustration.

[thorn spindle]

wake up at 0330. go for 15 mile run. drink raw eggs. listen to 5 self improvement podcasts at once

[empty bloom]

And it's funny to me that some took the guy in Empty Throne referring to normal humans being 'snags' so to speak as being a mark against all IVs, because like... He's objectively not wrong, even Chief comments on Marines and ODSTs slowing him down.

[versed helm]

rahhh

[spare kite]

I found the article https://www.businessinsider.com/us-special-operations-forces-are-special-but-not-elite-2020-4

[orchid kettle]

It is unique that they sit somewhere between Space Marine and superhero

[thorn spindle]

go cycle for 25 miles. get hit by car while listening to 10 podcasts at 2x speed. pass out in an alley after legs break

[orchid kettle]

Though I'd kinda wish we'd explore that aspect of the Spartans seeming distant and inhuman to the average person

[empty bloom]

Rubicon did explore it a bit with Kovan and Stone.

[orchid kettle]

Not inhuman in terms of like, being a prick

[versed helm]

i mean spartans IV is the closest thing to an average human

[stoic hamlet]

It’s a sad aspect we’ve lost, IMO.

Kinda came back in Empty Throne though, and a bit in Breaking Strain.

[orchid kettle]

But just so mechanically precise that the normal human in turn wonders if there's even a person in the armor at all

[empty bloom]

Like, in my mind, your average 'desired mindset' in a Spartan is centered heavily around having inhuman determination and resiliance.

[orchid kettle]

which i guess to be charitable, you could argue thats the revelation in Babysitter, that Cal is a person under all that armor

and hopefully not just "Woah, she's a girl, but she can fight?!!!"

[empty bloom]

It's actually why one of my least favorite bits of writing tends to be around IVs idolizing various IIs like Chief tbh

Like, someone like that is not going to be the kind to beg Chief for help on an all-channels frequency.

They'd be hellbent on doing it themselves as best they can.

[versed helm]

i mean IIs are way more important than IVs

[empty bloom]

Firstly, horrible framing, secondly, not really.

A Spartan is a Spartan, and some IVs have more impressive combat records than even some IIs.

[versed helm]

u have john 117

[empty bloom]

And? So?

Not every II is John, and even John gets kind of rankled at being called 'the best'. It's "Best known" to him for a reason.

[orchid kettle]

I always figured the "mindset" thing is supposed to be the actual reason why we see so many young, inexperienced people become Spartans under Musa's careful eye

[versed helm]

he’s literally the reason cause spartans II are way more lethal than spartans IV

[spare kite]

Would u say that Sarah Palmer kinda fits that? She isnt at total awe when she meets Chief, and she throws in a harmless joke.

[versed helm]

even Jerome

[empty bloom]

You are arguing that in the wrong channel lmao

[orchid kettle]

That its like a Captain America situation where you gotta give the superpowers to the lil guy with a heart of gold over the traditionally strong bully

[empty bloom]

So... No. We haven't seen anything that really proves this claim.

[orchid kettle]

of course then Scruggs slips past Musa's "careful eye" so I guess he's not that careful after all

[empty bloom]

Keep in mind, Palmer's been an augmented and power armored Spartan for longer than any member of Red Team has been.

And has arguably more impressive feats of violence than most IIs do.

[spare kite]

I mean she did go toe to toe with a chieftain when she was just a odst.....and she killed it.

[empty bloom]

IIs and IVs are not meaningfully different outside of specific mental attributes in armor, and it's a known factor in-universe. It's why Locke managed to crack Chief's visor and nearly overpowered him through technique.

[versed helm]

simple Spartans II are the meaning of human perfection and more

[spare kite]

But they arent perfect like not even close

[empty bloom]

Aside from them clearly having failings, and that being an icky way to put it, sure, no.

[empty bloom]

Scruggs and Mickey lmao

[versed helm]

1 spartan II = prob 4 or more spartan IV

[orchid kettle]

well to be fair Mickey was radicalized after he joined up

[empty bloom]

Locke literally fought Chief to a borderline stalemate.

And that was a 1v1.

[orchid kettle]

but it was by some other Spartan so I guess there's that

[empty bloom]

Where are you getting this ridiculous 4v1 notion lmao

[versed helm]

who ended up winning?

[empty bloom]

Doesn't matter, it was still a 1v1.

And a pretty damn close one.

Like, it being a close fight is literally the point of the scene lmao

[orchid kettle]

but trench Chief is actually just an average II, remember

everybody else is way cooler than him

[empty bloom]

Waow!

[thorn spindle]

meh that fight

[empty bloom]

But like, it's made apparent that Chief is even a little butthurt about Locke doing as good as he did lmao

[orchid kettle]

you know I dont need Chief to be the best II, but there is something a lil deflating about the idea that basically any other II could have been the MC of the games and done just as well if not better

[empty bloom]

It honestly only annoys me because it makes the universe feel smaller, and I'm generally against smaller-feeling sci fi universes. It's why I don't much care for the Honor Harrington books and such.

[versed helm]

alright put Linda -058 who’s stronger than chief to fight Locke and u gonna see

[empty bloom]

Linda's a better sniper than Chief. And if I'm the writer, I'm gonna make Locke win, just to spite you.

Because at the end of the day it's also about the writer lmao

[orchid kettle]

I find it funny that Fred is supposed to be the CQB guy but its stated that Kelly is way better at hand to hand combat because of her speed

[empty bloom]

Like, the end of 5 originally was going to have you choosing Locke or Chief winning

Allegedly

I'd have 100% chosen Locke, he's much more interesting IMO.

[versed helm]

Yes, but it has been said that the strongest in terms of strength among the blue team is Linda.

[spare kite]

In theory shouldnt a 2 be stronger than a 4 in the same gen armor though? Ive seen no confirmation that the suits limit theirs strengths to the degree where they're all equal.

[empty bloom]

That does check out tbh. Speed's a huge factor, especially when your punches can disembowel 9 foot tall alien rhinomonkeys.

[thorn spindle]

look chief is pointing gun at other spartan flash now some guy is pointing gun at chief. who is this gui?? whut is going on?????!!!

[empty bloom]

As I understand it, IVs benefit from MJOLNIR more than IIs and IIIs do due to the nature of their augmentations, leaving them about equal.

[orchid kettle]

on a sidenote, one of my favorite things to ask people is if they think their OCs could have survived CE in Chief's place

[empty bloom]

It's not a flat strength bonus no matter the traits, though the fanmade RPG would certainly like to think as much.

[empty bloom]

Damn, and you've never asked me. How rude.

[orchid kettle]

well can they

[empty bloom]

With or without Cortana?

[versed helm]

just to let yall know my fav character is indeed a Spartan IV and Linda

[orchid kettle]

My OCs are ODSTs so they actually die in the bumblebee crash

👌

[spare kite]

Im an ODST fanboy till I die

so all of them are my favs

[orchid kettle]

With, its only fair. But that also means only Mark V, and not GEN2 or 3.

[empty bloom]

Solid "Might get filtered by the Library or anything past it" territory.

[orchid kettle]

your OC has to pay the 20 bucks for the Mark V armor kit

[empty bloom]

Damn...

I can't even do the original CEA and go with Mark Vb Mark V Chief?

[versed helm]

i’ll miss u griffin

[empty bloom]

IVs don't have numbers.

[versed helm]

yes they do

[empty bloom]

Well, not like, Spartan II or III style numbers

[spare kite]

that scene in forward unto dawn when all of the ODST drop, and one of the character is like "Odst dropping is never good" chills literall chills. Because we play as a spartan we forget that ODST's are a big deal.

[versed helm]

they still havin’ numbers and their names

[orchid kettle]

Wouldnt Mark Vb make you weaker since you wouldnt get the brain boost or whatever from slotting in Cortana?

[thorn spindle]

brain boost op

[empty bloom]

It's about the drip, and that's one of the few times I'll say I like Mark Vb more lmao

[versed helm]

nvm u’re right

bwahahahaha ma apolocheese

question for yall

where is linda-058?

is she even alive?

[empty bloom]

Doing silly goofy things offscreen.

I hear she's planning a surprise birthday party for Chief.

[versed helm]

i miss her so much

[spare kite]

Speaking of old gen mjolnir this is a point that someone made that I never considered and when I did it made complete sense. People like to say that the 4's couuldnt do what Chief did because the 2's are stronger. But what they forget is that for basically the entirety of the war Chief was wearing gen 1 armor. So if a 4 in Gen 2 is equal to a 2 in gen 1 than that means that no Chief in this case wouldnt be stronger than a 4.

[versed helm]

Ohh 😯 i hope john enjoys it

[empty bloom]

It's basically fun-sounding mental gymnastics for people who don't like to give IVs credit for anything.

"See they aren't the same because they literally says something that describes them being the exact same"

[versed helm]

what bout buck ?

i’ve heard he’s now in charge of his own squad

[empty bloom]

The entire reason he was with Osiris in the first place was because he lost confidence in his ability to command.

[versed helm]

ohhh 😯

new context

[hardy swan]

Chief is literally stronger than a IV

[versed helm]

we know this

[spare kite]

Alpha nine but spartans now

[empty bloom]

Out of armor, sure.

The armor fills in that gap for the IVs.

[versed helm]

i thought he went back to Odst

[empty bloom]

They're all Spartans now.

Because... I dunno, I really hate that whole thing.

[versed helm]

What bout his wife ?

his wife too?

[empty bloom]

Dare is not a Spartan.

[spare kite]

Yes, but a 2 in gen 1 mjolnir is equal to a 4 in gen 2. Yet people will still say that a 4 cant do what Chief did during the war because the 2's are stronger. Ignoring the fact that Chief was wearing gen 1 mjolnir throughout basically the entire war, something that would give him no strength advantage over a 4.

[versed helm]

cause she was an odst before if a reckon

[empty bloom]

Yee.

[hardy swan]

The IVs never did what Chief ever did

[empty bloom]

Well, no, not yee

[empty bloom]

That's not the same thing as being unable to.

[versed helm]

oh no……

[empty bloom]

She was an ONI Agent, never an ODST.

But she was trained to do ODST things as part of her job.

[empty bloom]

I'm gonna start pulling out the insufferable argument referee memes.

[versed helm]

mann….. all this time i lived in a lie

[hardy swan]

As far as they are written now, I think Halo Studios still think the IIs are superior

[versed helm]

look simple

linda is the strongest

and that’s it

linda forever

[spare kite]

theres a mythos about them, even if Buck completely botches up the comparison lol

[empty bloom]

Good, someone actually gets that lmao

Buck's comparison is so damn bad lmao

[hardy swan]

||in Empty Throne, 3 Spartan IVs were with Gray Team on that one planet. Only gray team made it out||

Spoilers for Empty Throne

[versed helm]

buck was a rookie before becoming a odst he even have a serie bout it

[empty bloom]

Gray Team's notably elite even by II standards, the context to what happened to the IVs is important, and 3 IIs and 3 IVs is not all IIs or all IVs.

A different component of IVs could've done better, a different component of IIs could've done worse.

[hardy swan]

The only great feats we saw IVs do was Horvath and it was either Kovan or Stone that ate a hammer to the head

Also Stone almost killing Jega

[spare kite]

I dont think anyone would argue that a 2 isnt better than a 4. Theres just too much of a gap in experience and training, instead its just that in these comparisons it always ends with the 4's in some capacity being looked at as if they're in some way bad. Even if you dont read the books, the audio logs and scenes in Infinite should completely disuade all negative thoughts of the 4's.

[hardy swan]

I wonder what happens to their AIs after a Spartan goes MIA. Do they just hang around or shut down

[empty bloom]

Time to list a bunch of cool feats IVs have done

[hardy swan]

Uh oh

[spare kite]

I mean..... wouldnt the entirety of Rubicon Protocol be a good showing? We saw how capable they were even when faced with broken down armor etc.

[stoic hamlet]

That’s more so because if ODST’s are deployed the surrounding combat zone just got a hell of a lot deadlier.

[spare kite]

and ik that trenchbird hates how they protrayed ODST's in Rubicon but f it I need as much ODST lroe as I can get lol

[hardy swan]

I think it’s been mentioned before that what remained of the 300 Spartans on board still could not achieve what Chief did throughout the Infinite campaign.

[empty bloom]

@stoic hamlet You wanna tackle this one? I'm too busy typing out cool things IVs have done

[hardy swan]

But that’s just Batman levels of plot armor

They should have included live Spartans

[stoic hamlet]

Mine would probably get to around Library, maybe, after that it’s hard to say.

[spare kite]

Yea but Chief didnt face what they faced at Mortal Reverie. They were heavily outnumbered, and outgunned.

[empty bloom]

Peppertee's response is also acceptable, there's a lot of things to Chief's victory than benefitted him and only him versus the vastly worse-off IVs.

[versed helm]

_ A screwdriver 🪛 _

[spare kite]

and to Chiefs benefit, he didnt have to fight for 6 months while completely cut off from the rest of the UNSC. He floated for 6 months thats it lol.

[versed helm]

A SCREWDRIVER 🪛

[hardy swan]

I’m kinda mad te dead IVs Mjolnir didn’t go kaboom when dead

[empty bloom]

• Rescue Blue Team from Cortana (Halo 5) while suffering from neural blackouts due to close proximity attenuation pulses (EMPs can shut off your brain)
• Successfully rescued the Infinity from Requiem's gravitational pull minutes before the destruction of the shield world (Halo 4)
• Drove a Warthog across the back of two Phantoms to cross a massive gorge (Escalation Comics)
• Successfully killed a Guardian (Bad Blood)
• Successfully and single-handedly killed over 30 brutes, grunts, and elites with a screwdriver set, a rifle, and a crate while mortally wounded (Halo Infinite)
• Single-handedly took out multiple lances of Wraith tanks (Halo Spartan Strike)

That's like, just a shorthand off-top-of-head list

[versed helm]

meanwhile linda havin’ a walk for a while

and locke = 💀(or maybe not)

[hardy swan]

Okay I want to give Majestic some credit because they have a cool name and Thorne is kinda cool even though he was weak for no reason

This is why you keep your HELMET ON

BE LIKE MASTER CHIEF

they need a new rule. Keep the helmet on at all times

[versed helm]

Griffin cooked fr

that’s why he ma fav and linda(the lost one )

[empty bloom]

As for the Spartans of Rubicon Protocol; In the region Chief landed in, only roughly 24-odd Spartans at most landed in the region, with the rest either on the Infinity or elsewhere on the ring. An unknown number died before the invasion on the Mortal Reverie.

These Spartans, from the moment they landed on the ring, were left without proper resupply, proper repair facilities, proper medical care (Some of their armor's repair systems were literally repairing into their muscles), proper ammunition stores, and had their communication systems tapped. They also lacked the reputation Chief had, were going against a fresh force of Banished, and faced pointedly massed resistance while simultaneously defending a primary objective-something Spartans are pointedly killed by time and time again, a point best proven on Reach.

[hardy swan]

Their self destruct would come in so handy but I think the author forgot it existed

[empty bloom]

Escharum's treatment of Chief was after six months of continuous combat and over predation, with demoralized infighting troops facing supply shortages, fresh after losing major communication relays due to Rubicon Protocol-following ODSTs, with Chief's communications completely untapped. Additionally, he explicitly pulled his punches to get his 'grand fight' with Chief.

[versed helm]

did locke die ? like fr fr ?

[empty bloom]

Armor self destructs are not activated on death. They must be activated by another Spartan.

[empty bloom]

Problably not.

If they did that's a grevious waste of a character.

[versed helm]

he ain’t that cool

[hardy swan]

It like innrubicon protocol we have pretty gruesome ways Spartan died and what happened after…. I just hate that

[versed helm]

a waste of a character was griffin

[empty bloom]

He is, people are just lame and don't know good things when they have them.

[versed helm]

he had good potential

to be on screen helping chief or some

[hardy swan]

It’s okay we got better IVs to worry about

[empty bloom]

Where is Tanaka, I miss Tanaka.

[versed helm]

but they had to kill him 😓

[versed helm]

who? Palmer ?

bwahahahaha

[hardy swan]

I wonder what Naiya Ray is up to

[spare kite]

cant exactly remember but isnt there an instance where a spartan mjolnir is so broken down that it literally locks up the spartan

[versed helm]

it’s not ok partner 😭😭

[hardy swan]

Like anyone else

[stoic hamlet]

Kovan’s Gel layer was malfunctioning.

[versed helm]

I mean Osiris team supposed to be active

[empty bloom]

Vale and Buck dipped, so I assume they both got replaced.

[spare kite]

ah that thank u

[empty bloom]

Honestly, if I were in charge of that stuff, I'd put Eklund and Dinh on Osiris. Dunno why, I just think Eklund and Tanaka would get along like a house on fire.

They have a lot of common ground.

[spare kite]

arent u the one that really likes Tanaka?

[empty bloom]

Yes.

[hardy swan]

Isn’t Dinh part of a squad already that does deep covert missions

[versed helm]

Linda got lost , Fredric and kelly(No information provided yet)

[empty bloom]

Spartan roles and designations change as needed.

Dinh and Eklund don't have to be 'lone wolves' (ugh) forever.

[stoic hamlet]

^^^

There is no set roster or team. It’s all fluid.

[versed helm]

what bout majestic ?

where’re em?

[stoic hamlet]

For example Linda’s commanded Green Team, John’s commanded Red, Fred’s commanded Blue Team but been on Green Team as just a random member, etc.

[spare kite]

dont forget yellow team lol

[hardy swan]

They were stationed on Infinity the last time

[versed helm]

so maybe dead ?

hope didn’t kill Thorne

or DeMarco

[spare kite]

demarco is dead

been dead for awhile now

[versed helm]

NOOOOOOOOOOOO

[versed helm]

😭

Bro they’ve been killing really good characters

that ain’t fair

[spare kite]

yea I was a bit sad too even if I didnt care too much about spartan ops

[versed helm]

nah bro this ain’t fair

i hope ‘em ain’t killin’ Linda

if that happens bro i’ll sue em for emotional damage

[wispy pewter]

Nobody killing the redhead

[versed helm]

yeayyyyy thank u kindly

[carmine sleet]

Demarco's been dead since 2013

[carmine sleet]

She's already died once. She got better

[upper coyote]

Who is "Zed Rhodros"?

[obsidian thistle]

Someone I need to make a page on

https://www.halopedia.org/Halo_Legendary_Crate/Data_Drops#Series_2_2

Read Crate 8s drop

@upper coyote

[upper coyote]

Thanks

[upper coyote]

Also a question for you specifically

Will there be a dedicated page for all the ways levels change in campaign based on the # of players there are?

In the past I've tried putting it under Triva but was told that was the incorrect location with no further details

[unique salmon]

whats the best halo audiobook to start with?

played the games, got some audiobooks but dont know what to start with

[carmine sleet]

Fall of Reach

[obsidian thistle]

Gameplay is getting a massive rehaul on the wiki

Like

Totally massive

[upper coyote]

Got it, thx

[versed helm]

yeah but nobody will kill her our redhead again

no more

[empty bloom]

Hey look under your chair

Totally didn't put a dead Linda under there

[versed helm]

bwhahahah

[obsidian thistle]

I guess a thing to note about GEN3 Hermes is the "ears" Kelly has in the Shadows of Reach + nuEncyclopedia was seemingly always an attachment.

We just never realised it cause we never saw the helnet without it.

Just a fun thing for us to note when talking about Hermes

(Is however unfortunate we cant use them without the GEN2 Hermes-inspired visor. Which while rad I know a lotta fans wanted an accurate Kelly helmet)

[carmine sleet]

Neat

Also, reading the description of the X60 Protective Suite for the Mark VI Mod and I think it's interesting they refer to Silver and Gold Teams in the present tense

[stoic hamlet]

I’m really hoping they clarify that.

Because whooo boy do we need that clarified. If they’re doing what I think they’re implying, I’m gonna be mad.

Mind you there’s precedent for those to be Spartan III teams, so that gives them an out.

[carmine sleet]

Considering the strong assoication of the Mark VI Mod with Chief, a Spartan II, my gut is telling me it's referring to Spartan II teams

[strange pumice]

Ain't Chief was the first who had Mark 6 Mjolnir?

[obsidian thistle]

Note: The attachment isnt only usable with Mark VI MOD

[carmine sleet]

Fair point. Do we have a list of the other helmets it can be used for?

[obsidian thistle]

Example

[carmine sleet]

Ok, I don't even know what that base helmet is it changes how it looks that much (Which isn't a bad thing)

[obsidian thistle]

I wouldnt say the list of helmets in Infinite is a definitive list of helmets an attachment can be used on.

[latent junco]

Eclipse is the base one

[carmine sleet]

Thanks

I don't think I have that helmet

[obsidian thistle]

Its also the coolest change a helmet has with a simple attachment

[carmine sleet]

For sure

The new Hermes having such a drastic change when using its attachment is fantastic (Do wish the tiny headlight things could also be attached without the Gen 2 look too though)

[latent junco]

Same tbh
I just want the lights to be an attachment, then just let me use it on Hermes IIC
basically the same end result

[carmine sleet]

Yeah

I do have to wonder why we got two versions of Hermes, especially so close together

[latent junco]

Yeaa
I like the new base helmet better tbh, the forehead on IIC looks weird to me (at least with what I use)

[obsidian thistle]

Hermes IIC is practically faithful to GEN2 Hermes but lite.

[dusk jetty]

That’s eclipse?

[latent junco]

yea

[dusk jetty]

Does it cover the whole head?

[latent junco]

I think so

[dusk jetty]

Checking that out when I get home

Might actually use that helmet for once

[stoic hamlet]

Prototypes in the form of MJOLNIR BLACK were in use as early as mid august 2552.

If not earlier

[stoic hamlet]

GEN1 Security

GEN1 Gungnir

Rampart

Eclipse

Cavalino

VI MOD

[carmine sleet]

Oh worm, it's on some of the Mark V[b] helmets?

[stoic hamlet]

And then yeah, as CIA says, in-game doesn’t preclude it from being on any other helmet.

Waypoint chronicle coming tomorrow.

[carmine sleet]

https://tenor.com/view/grabby-hands-give-me-i-want-you-me-want-me-want-food-gif-24520158

[empty bloom]

I feel like the only real things that be a problem are purpose built up armor packages

[drowsy mesa]

Tomorrow's chronicle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR_lYXyLXjo

[strange pumice]

#general-chat message
@upbeat finch
Continue here
It is like was on Reach, New Alexandria
Ground forces are retreaded and covenant ships are started to glass the entire city

[upbeat finch]

Ohh cause they were looking for the forerunner structure under sword base but when they couldn't find it on new Alexandria they decided to glass it

[strange pumice]

Even if they find forerunner relics even on a human colony, they will still be glassing it

[obsidian thistle]

https://www.halowaypoint.com/news/halo-from-the-soil-to-the-stars

And boom

Cool new lore

[carmine sleet]

Nice to know the Sangheili in Rio have been remembered

[spice crystal]

Dude goodluck to both humans and elites. Rio, either humans die to elites with active camo or native species, or elites die to native species.

Id like to see brutes try to survive places like the amazon or Australia.

[carmine sleet]

The Elites in Rio are not soldiers, they're refugees

And considering what the Brute homeworld was like before it was destroyed, I doubt they'd be too bothered by the conditions in the Amazon or Australia

[carmine sleet]

Stacker!! Nice to see him again

[spark pivot]

chief double checked the weights this time lol

[bronze prawn]

I´ll read it but im too lazy to do it

i´ll just wait to HiddeXperia

[latent junco]

There's an audiobook iirc

[empty bloom]

You'd rather wait to be given the wrong information secondhand?

[empty bloom]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR_lYXyLXjo

[bronze prawn]

good enough

[unique rune]

she had arrived at a particularly engrossing anecdote about the three days that Bustamante had spent in Rio de Janeiro visiting a Sangheili-owned establishment. Reading about the alien food was interesting, but the meals and recipes were more of a gateway into the personal stories of these strange refugees who had been given a home on Earth itself.
you can’t just tease me like this 343 I want more

[hardy swan]

Out of all places to give the refuge they chose earth

[unique rune]

Some of them probably didn’t really get to choose

[empty bloom]

The UNSC and what was left of the Covenant both would've been left far too crippled to reliably evac or shift people places-not even getting into the flux and flow of knowing not everyone in the Covenant was a dogmatic, rabid zealot.

So yeah, not really surprising species mixed in refuges. Hell, for some ex-Covenant species, considering how rabid some vestiges of the empire still were, being in the heart of human territory might be the safest place to go.

[hardy swan]

They are not letting just any covenant species but Elites into earth as “refugees” and then in Halo 4 they committed terrorism

Yeah I don’t think if I were a human in the Halo universe letting in the species that tried to genocide you is something I would want

But I guess they are friends now since they can just say they know the Arbiter

[empty bloom]

:>

I am biting my tongue so damn hard at that because it reminds me of some very, very interesting time periods that still incredibly politically relevant.

So I cannot properly respond.

[hardy swan]

Yeah I can present irl examples but it’s political

[empty bloom]

What isn't political, though, is to say that xenophobia is bad.

[hardy swan]

It’s okay to dislike Aliens is my rule in sci fi

[empty bloom]

And when you don't have a choice on who or what goes where, you do not have a choice. And Halo's humanity, for the better, does not seem to have an appetite for genocide unless it's people who don't pay taxes.

[empty bloom]

Cool. Halo isn't your sci fi.

Not everything's 40K yadda yadda yadda.

[hardy swan]

Yeah sure we just play John 117 who’s only job is to kill them

Very fun

[empty bloom]

Cope, seethe, mald.

[hardy swan]

Ok

[thorn spindle]

40k is interesting in bc some leaders prob want to be more unified with certain aliens but no one is powerful enough to enforce such a thing and it would cause it all to crumble and probably die off. Guilliman is probably very open to it. After all he despises how broken and set in concrete their Imperium is. If they could unify and move against the real enemies in Chaos. I feel like they only have a chance if somehow the emperor is revived and decides to not act like his former self and instead try to mold a different humanity. Bc he's really the only one powerful enough to help them survive such a drastic rewrite. Right now in their universe they are just in survival mode so limited

theyre a dying husk just like their leader

fortunately halo humanity is doing a better job imo

like halo humans can be more like star trek humans if they tried but 40k is hopeless

[empty bloom]

I always got the impression that 343i's Halo was, at its core, intended to be closer to DS9 era Star Trek mixed with older Halo themes.

A deep and complex look at the aftermath of genocidal conflict and the interactions between groups, with Sapien Sunrise and similar groups-plus Mickey and Scruggs-being looks at the intense hatred of people who can't let the past go and can't pivot to handle a new threat.

And like-humanity was kinda positioned as this sort of 'rising star' out of its element against organizations that were out of its league in either direction.

I mean this in a broader scope sense, obviously. But you also have this intended melting pot of a culture where you have aliens humanity was once at bitter war with living in close proximity to humans.

And a deeper look at... Y'know, how that jives, how that mixes, and where it goes wrong.

[wispy pewter]

yeah Halo is more realistic because only Halo humans will backstab their allies in the back

all Arbiter wanted was to become friends

[stoic hamlet]

It’s rather unfortunate that I’d say Halo has solidly missed that mark, IMO.

DS9 has our heroes do some really had stuff on multiple occasions, and one of the main characters (O’Brien) is still xenophobic and prejudiced heavily. And he’s not even Bajoran. Kira is even more hostile towards Cardassians. Sisko compromises his morale all the time later on, and overall I’d argue DS9 is about how the Federation at its core is actually no better than anyone else. It’s just as militant, power hungry, and aggressive as the rest of them, especially after the Cardassian wars. They just hide it better.

[empty bloom]

Star Trek humans backstab Star Trek rubber forehead aliens all the damn time, what are you talking about?

[stoic hamlet]

Halo doesn’t really have an overt Xenophobe in its main cast, for example.

The closest I can think of is Linda, oddly enough.

[empty bloom]

Who apparently canonically took up... Sangheili meditation, of all things?

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah, which then seems to have been discarded, or something, because she does that.

[empty bloom]

That line would've still made about a million times more sense if it was Vale.

Y'know.

[stoic hamlet]

I guess it could be a “use the tools of your enemy” kinda thing.

[empty bloom]

I don't think it's so much the "Federation is no better", it's more that the Federation's goals are quite literally more idealistic, forward-thinking, and effective.

But like, at the same time, they are more cutthroat about how they perform.

Evident in how they handle the Dominion, an 'evil' parallel to the Federation.

[wispy pewter]

Heyman I would have nuked the Xindi

[stoic hamlet]

Mhm, agreed there.

[empty bloom]

Like, the Dominion exploits and corrupts its subjects, while the Federation makes a point to lift up and utilize its diversity, rather than force it into a caste structure.

Both utilize subterfuge; But the Federation does so with an ultimately mutually benevolent goal, while the Dominion does so selfishly.

Et cetera, I can yap about it a lot.

[stoic hamlet]

Mhm, even Section 31 are seemingly actually genuine at least in DS9.

But yeah, I really want an O’Brien analogue in modern Halo, but I don’t think HS can pull it off.

He’s IMO the best example of how a post war human soldier should act around and with Covenant species.

[empty bloom]

God, I hate being a polsci major right now, because I can make this into a freaking wonderful learning opportunity, lmao.

Anyways, yeah-I agree with that. I'd argue that O'Brien's analogue is actually Mickey, but Mickey is...

Well, I'll be charitable and say it left me wanting.

[stoic hamlet]

I can kinda see it, but yeah, it doesn’t come close to hitting the mark.

[empty bloom]

And if Scruggs was handled better I'd say he would likely have been a better analogue to... Maybe Eddington?

That's a hard maybe on my part.

... Wait. Does that mean that Palmer would be freaking Sisko?

Or would she be Kira?

Guh. Anyways.

[stoic hamlet]

Palmer’s Kira. Lasky’s Sisko.

Osman’s Sloane.

[empty bloom]

Lasky never really had to compromise his values in comparison to Sisko, which is throwing me off a lot lmao

[stoic hamlet]

I was going more with just position, with him.

[empty bloom]

Ah

[stoic hamlet]

But yeah, again, an aspect DS9 does so well.

Ahd Halo just… ignores.

[empty bloom]

I'd argue it is at least partially a matter of necessity and medium.

That and like

They also kinda can't do it again lmao

Star Trek really suffers from this whole machismo issue you see in American media consumption these days tbh

Because people tend to think it's this "Everybody's gotta get along and that's a CUTE WEAK FANTASY" and like

Dude, some awful stuff gets discussed lmao, these guys literally just got genocided and have to play nice with the party that did it

The 'soft' factors of generational cultural trauma are not cutesy lmao

Something something 'living envy the dead' or something

[obsidian thistle]

I missed a DS9 convo

My heart

Its breaking

[unique rune]

boy that
sure is

a take

[obsidian thistle]

Its ok to dislike something.

BUT you cant dismiss the cultural impact something may have.

Thats my rule of thumb on something like Aliens

[hardy swan]

It has come to a point people in media are siding with the bugs in Starship Troopers

[dusk jetty]

Satire is still satire

Anyone taking that movie seriously needs to re-evaluate their stance

Or, preferably, read a book

[carmine sleet]

The bugs in Starship Troopers were quite literally just living on their own planet, humanity in that film are very clearly not the good guys

[thorn spindle]

the only good bug is a happy healthy bug!

[carmine sleet]

https://tenor.com/view/wurmple-party-hard-pokemon-gif-24016485

[high elbow]

Media literacy? In this day and age? Impossible.

Arguably the one of the few reasons the UNSC has such a “good standing” is because we don’t see what else they’re doing in the background much. (Plus the whole defending humanity thing but still) Any organization of that size and power is doing awful stuff somewhere

[spice crystal]

The Office of Naval Intelligence. Plus we only see small things they do bad like kidnapping 75 children.

[stoic hamlet]

The distinction is meaningless.

UNSC and ONI are one and the same.

Heck, in probably the book that shows off UNSC atrocities, the ONI officer involved is actually the most upstanding person present. Everyone else has either fired on civilians, used excessive force, or other things.

[empty bloom]

Honestly, they're no worse than [politics expunged] in [date expunged].

[stoic hamlet]

Also that, yeah.

[empty bloom]

Plus like Innies are almost always shown to be objectively awful people

With next to zero awareness of anything else going on outside of their interest niche

... Come to think of it, I think the only Innies that didn't join the UNSC to fight the Covenant that have been shown who are actually like, pretty decent dudes, are the two that helped save Tanaka when she was a teenager.

[carmine sleet]

They were just local Innies living on the planet, right?

Or were they tied to a larger group?

[empty bloom]

I think they were like, offshoots of a larger group.

Unsure.

I don't think it was clarified and frankly they were kinda nothing characters

[carmine sleet]

Fair

[stoic hamlet]

Halo rarely does side characters well, at least not recently. They’re just there to move a plot along but don’t have much going for themselves, it feels like.

I admit to recency bias though, because I’ve been reading a ton of Dan Abnett, and his bread and butter is really compelling side characters.

Gimme a book like Double Eagle HS, I’m begging you.

[orchid kettle]

Part of this to me always felt like a symptom of Halo's own toothlessness when it comes to the Insurrection. Reminds me of people's criticism of the Dark Knight Rises, where Bane makes some speech about wall street or whatever thing the audience may actually be on board with-- but don't worry, he also wants to blow up the city with a bomb, so clearly Batman needs to stop him!

[empty bloom]

Gotta not think about the fact that Batman is one of the people benefitting from said Wall Street.

[orchid kettle]

status quo defenders be gone

I need more heroes like Arby who actually has some idea and motivation for making the world a better place

[empty bloom]

Batman's rogues gallery is... Kinda funny, because some have appreciable goals or motivations, they just go about it in a way that's either self-serving to the extreme or just generally extremist.

[orchid kettle]

of course the plot of outcasts is ultimately to return to a pre Cortana status quo, but still, its nice that Arby has some ambition and its not painted as a bad thing

Sometimes its hard to shake this sense in mainstream stories that what motivates somebody isn't evil, its the very will to enact change upon the world in any form