lore-and-universe

[patent patio]

Chief also got that luck on his side :>

[spark pivot]

Chief is the luckiest spartan, also the 2nd most cool one

[patent patio]

Also the guy has saved the galaxy like 2 times

[stoic hamlet]

I mean, not really?

He’s “the best” due to circumstances, nothing more.

He did what he did on Zeta Halo because Escharum pulled his punches and John didn’t undergo the 6 months of heavy fighting the other Spartans did. He was comparatively fresh while the other Spartans were beaten down and on the back foot from day one.

Halo CE saw a similar situation where Covenant forces sent most of their heavy hitters to Alpha Base, and generally let him run unopposed.

His two week stint in the Dreadnought is particularly impressive… but other Spartans have shown similar sort of feats (Kelly destroying a fleet by herself in Operation HEMORRHAGE, for example).

Overall, John’s status of “the best” is circumstantial more than anything else.

[patent patio]

Bro blew up the ring to stop the flood in CE and blew up the ring again in 3 to stop the flood

That's gotta deserve some respect

[spark pivot]

6 months in what cannot have been a good substitute for cryo leaves you fresh? that doesnt make sense to me tbh

[unique rune]

I feel like everything with the Banished is just an extension of the weird sort of. Flanderization that 343's been subjecting him to.

[stoic hamlet]

And to be clear, that’s not a problem. It’s just an aspect of the fiction that never gets quite reckoned with.

[patent patio]

Not to mention Chief be beating a whole Banished force by himself in Infinite

And the guy also saved earth from the didact

[spark pivot]

tbh, any spartan could've done that, that was more just luck and placement than anything else

[patent patio]

Idc. It was Chief who did it. Any baby can walk but that 1st moment is special :>

[stoic hamlet]

“Comparatively”.

[unique rune]

He saved the Earth from the Didact with support from Cortana and the UNSC Home Fleet, he wouldn't have been able to pull that off alone.

[spark pivot]

the only thing that no other spartan(?) could've done was handle the didact with the librarians help, because afaik, chief was the only one with the resistance to the composer

[spark pivot]

this made no sense

[patent patio]

I'm just saying it was Chief who did all this crap. Even if somebody else could've done it, the actions he did still deserves some respect

[spark pivot]

fair, tbh I wanna know how that worked though, because I dont think suits come with cryo units installed

[versed helm]

That’s kind of a weird argument considering it is trying to take what he’s done because he just “did it” in certain circumstances. Like come on. Not to mention the literal text book definition of best is “of the most excellent, effective, or desirable type or quality.”

[spark pivot]

We are giving him the respect he deserves

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah this is the only instance we have of John actually being the only one capable of succeeding… but it’s not because of him, is part of my point.

If another Spartan had been given composer immunity, and had an AI like Cortana on hand, rampancy not withstanding.

[patent patio]

Ok damn. My bad lol

[versed helm]

EXACTLY

Not to mention he’s a jack of all trades

[stoic hamlet]

Every Spartan is though.

[spark pivot]

why do y'all default to assuming we're trying to take chief's acomplishments from him?

[patent patio]

Isn't he leader of Blue Team for a reason

[stoic hamlet]

That’s a moot point.

[spark pivot]

wanna hear the rest of that quote?

[unique rune]

I mean, no one's saying his actions shouldn't be respected? It just seems to be wildly inflated to make him The Coolest Guy Ever because he's supposed to be the face of the franchise

[stoic hamlet]

^^^^

[spark pivot]

this

[patent patio]

Tbf, most people would associate Chief as the face of Halo

1 point is that he's been in the most games

[spark pivot]

chief is probably one of the best all rounder spartans, but there are others who can do what he does better, there are stronger and faster spartans, thats all that we're saying

[stoic hamlet]

That’s also not what’s being discussed, lol.

[patent patio]

I mean the bottom point though

[versed helm]

He’s just more experienced and well rounded?

"Hunting the human Spartans was a task befitting only the greatest and most cunning of champions. Ultimately, Tovarus found defeat against the greatest of those Spartans, the Master Chief."

"He had been awarded every single major Medal in combat except for Prisoner of war; even among the [Spartan Is] he was without equal!”

[spark pivot]

what bottom point?

[stoic hamlet]

It’s also not really relevant to the discussion.

[patent patio]

My comment below the one that's getting replied too

[spark pivot]

Because he was there, if you replaced him with almost any other spartan, they would probably go through that list just fine too

(also wouldn't he have gotten the PoW medal after being taken prisoner by cortana?)

[patent patio]

Like ofc most people would see Chief as the coolest guy cuz he's been in the most games.

[spark pivot]

even though it was for like 20 minutes

[versed helm]

? Then you can’t say ANYONE is the best because someone in their position could do it better? Your argument is literally invalidating every feat or thing someone has done because someone could supposedly do it better. Who even could? He’s “without equal”. Like it or not he’s the best, and that’s canon

[patent patio]

So like what's the point if every spartan can do the same thing

That means no body is cool compared to the others

[stoic hamlet]

He would have gotten it when he was captured by Insurrectionists in 2531.

[versed helm]

No clue XD

[spark pivot]

He said himself he isnt the best XD

[stoic hamlet]

But definitely after he was captured by Cortana.

[spark pivot]

No one is taking his accomplishments from him, you are severely misunderstanding this discussion

[versed helm]

I mean, it sounds stupid as hell but it ain’t up to him if their statements

[versed helm]

But you’re still trying to invalidate him on some level by saying someone in his position could do it better, no?

[carmine sleet]

To use an example, if Fred, Kelly or Linda were the Spartan on Alpha Halo, the events would've gone about the same

[spark pivot]

My guy, Chief out of anyone would know that he isn't the best.., he's the luckiest and most well known, thats the only reason everyone thinks he's the best

[versed helm]

Speculation. We have no clue how they’d do because they never did it. Best to stay away from speculation

[spark pivot]

my guy, you're getting on my nerves now, I've said for the 3rd or fourth time no one is trying to invalidate his achievements, so drop the dang arugment already.

[patent patio]

So is any spartan cool when another spartan could've done the same thing? It's like the idea if everybody rich then nobody rich)

[versed helm]

Once again, the out verse statements Trump that. I got like 4 or 5 I can show you. He’s the best 🤷‍♂️

[versed helm]

Then what do you hope to accomplish by saying a different Spartan could do better in his circumstances?

[carmine sleet]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't John say that had Sam lived, he'd be the best Spartan?

[stoic hamlet]

That’s from the 2022 encyclopedia I believe, right?

Here’s the comparison quote in The Fall of Reach:

She turned to Cortana and stared into her odd translucent eyes. “You’ve read his CSV?”
“I’m reading it again right now.”
“Then you know he is neither the smartest nor the fastest nor the strongest of the Spartans. But he is the bravest—and quite possibly the luckiest. And in my opinion, he is the best.”

Note that the two speaking are Halsey and Cortana, but both are incredibly biased for whatever reason towards John. Cortana makes sense, considering she’s a scan of Halsey’s brain, but Halsey has some stuff in her journal that defies logic.

[spark pivot]

If you actually read the conversation instead of getting miffed over us having discussions about it, you would know that already.

[versed helm]

Potentially

[spark pivot]

not to my knowledge

[patent patio]

Yeah but that's rly up for debate tbh. Is Chief rly a fortune teller?

[carmine sleet]

This hardly counts as speculation, I was just stating that the Spartan didn't need to be Chief for the events that unfolded in CE to go the way they did

[versed helm]

They are biased. However, my statements (the one not from Halo Mythos) are from an outverse perspective

It’s not either of them who are speaking

It’s the authors

[unique rune]

what

[spark pivot]

Halsey is biased, but in that point, luck and bravery are what put him on top, not his skill, not his strength or speed, the fact of his mindset being able to have him commit and push forward even when it seems like there is no other option

[spark pivot]

what part of we arent talking about out of universe statments have you not caught onto yet?

[versed helm]

It is speculation because it didn’t happen and hasn’t been confirmed, no? Unless there is a statement or smt like that confirming that then…

[versed helm]

I brought up author statements, idk how it went to inverse

[spark pivot]

bruh, you need to read a dictionary

[stoic hamlet]

They actually aren’t, oddly enough, but it’s understandable to miss it.

They’re written from the perspective of a Forerunner AI, for the 2022 Encyclopedia anyways. It’s odd, but it’s what 343/HS have said on the matter. I can pull up both the video confirming it, and the relevant pages in the Encyclopedia to confirm, if you want.

Field Manual is blatant UNSC propaganda and so isn’t really relevant.

[spark pivot]

it was in in universe from the start. you didnt catch on to that

[spark pivot]

it's a UNSC ai

I can get the name right now if you want

[stoic hamlet]

I might be mixing it up with Catalog.

But go for it.

[unique rune]

I'm pretty sure it was a Forerunner AI for Mythos (Ignore me it was a UNSC AI)

[versed helm]

"Master Chief is inarguably the best Spartan to ever wear the Mjolnir armor and take up the fight to protect humanity"

"Hunting the human Spartans was a task befitting only the greatest and most cunning of champions. Ultimately, Tovarus found defeat against the greatest of those Spartans, the Master Chief."

These are not unless we got a confirmation that these encyclopedias are being narrated by an AI (I legit don’t know)

[spark pivot]

no you were right, I'm mixing stuff up, the Mythos was the UNSC ai, the encyclopedia is the Forerunner AI

[carmine sleet]

If I started talking about how Linda would handle things in the specifics, like how the Assault on the Control Room went, then I'd be speculating. I did not do that

[versed helm]

That’s fair. I’ll just use Encyclopedia 2022 and Spartan Guide

[stoic hamlet]

👍

[carmine sleet]

Hey, to be fair, there's allot of AI, don't blame you for getting mixed up

[stoic hamlet]

Field Guide is explicitly an in-universe document, so it’s disqualified by proxy.

By that criteria.

[spark pivot]

That is also true

[versed helm]

I mean your all together saying they could have done what MC did in Halo CE, no? We don’t know that.

[versed helm]

Then we got encyclopedia

[spark pivot]

the Field guide is literally the UNSC Spartans manual

[versed helm]

Halo Infinite DLC does say MC is “humanity’s greatest hero” as well but you take that anyway you want.

[spark pivot]

and going off of disqualification from in universe narration, that tosses out the mythos and encyclopedia, since both are narrated by AI's

[orchid kettle]

field manual also kinda ugly

[versed helm]

Do we have any official confirmation of Halo encyclopedia 2022 being narrated by AI?

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah it’s not great, lol

[carmine sleet]

DLC?

[stoic hamlet]

The scale of 1-10 for lethality on weapons, lol

[versed helm]

Like when you don’t have game pass and you click onto the campaign. A screen comes up saying some stuff and that statement is one of them

[orchid kettle]

my favorite is a knife having 4/10 fire rate or whatever it was

[versed helm]

Less goooo an automatic Knife Rifle

Always wanted one

[stoic hamlet]

I mean in the hand of a Spartan… maybe? lol

[carmine sleet]

Can we apply this to the weapons in RE4make, one of the knives has a super fast animation for stabbing

[carmine sleet]

That just means you don't own the campaign

[versed helm]

Yea, there is a screen that comes up and it gives a statement that’s what I’m saying. I know I don’t got the campaign

“Humanity’s greatest hero”

[unique rune]

I'm... not sure what your point is there? It's 343 marketing speak to hype up the campaign

[versed helm]

It’s still there. Unlike the hyper lethal thing we don’t got contradictory evidence. Like if Spartans were stated to be in general “humanity’s greatest hero”

Im just throwing statements I found into the ring for reactions

[carmine sleet]

Being the greatest hero doesn't make you the best. It just means that you kept saving the day

[stoic hamlet]

So if you’re just fishing for reactions… why the pushback?

[carmine sleet]

Maybe they're trying to make one of us mad?

[versed helm]

Not rage bait. I just see what other people think and I disagree depending on what they think. If mods don’t think that’s ok then I won’t post statements

[carmine sleet]

So you just pick the side opposite to what people say?

[versed helm]

I can say with absolute certainty I ain’t trying to do that. Sorry if it was made to look like that.

[versed helm]

I support these statements.

I didn’t choose a side depending on what was the less liked option

[carmine sleet]

Did you not send this message less than 5 minutes ago?

[versed helm]

“I disagree depending on what they say”
I mean I disagree with them if they don’t share my idea. Like how any normal discussion would start.

[versed helm]

[spark pivot]

The book itself....

Thats the last I'm saying on this, go read the books for yourself

[stoic hamlet]

Interestingly it also validated the Endless being worse than the Flood to the Forerunner’s plans, which I missed my first go around.

[balmy crow]

casual reminder not aimed at anyone in particular: please try to keep things civil, folks! if you find yourself getting riled up or annoyed, it may be time to consider blocking or taking a break

[carmine sleet]

Do we have a name for a group of Sentinels? Is it a flock or a cluster or something else?

[orchid kettle]

a murder

[carmine sleet]

Like crows?

[thorn spindle]

I always think swarm

[stoic hamlet]

A gaggle~

[versed helm]

Burden of proof (YOU have to get the specific statement)

[stoic hamlet]

I gotchu homie, you want Ebook or Hardcover?

[spark pivot]

considering they're drones of a sort, I assume it would be a swarm

[versed helm]

Homie I have the book (Archive.org and Comic smt) but I need a statement or confirmation stating it’s inverse and who is speaking.

[spark pivot]

This is not a courtroom. I am tired of dealing with you right now, and since you apparently have the book, look at it.

[stoic hamlet]

You have the 2022 encyclopedia?

Pages 006-007, and 487 detail the Forerunner AI.

Give or take.

[versed helm]

At least you gimme evidence, thanks. Now that’s done with I still don’t see how that invalidates evidence considering Forerunner ai isn’t biased to the master Chief like Cortana and Halsey (his biggest glazers)

[stoic hamlet]

I don’t… wait, what are you arguing here?

[versed helm]

Oh, my bad for mentioning that. I thought people would argue that the forerunner Ai was biased and therefore invalidates Chief’s statements from that book.

[spark pivot]

Just drop it, it's not going to go anywhere despite us having explained several times what is happening

[stoic hamlet]

I’m actually confused now, lol I think one of us got lost amidst everything.

[versed helm]

No need to be salty

[versed helm]

It’s fine, long range stuff is hard to manage XD

[spark pivot]

They were lost from the moment they joined the conversation, they kept arguing a point earlier that was repeatedly explained to be irrelevant and not what was happening

[stoic hamlet]

At this point I think we’re past the convo mattering.

If it comes up again we can point to these messages, from either side, and use them as a frame of reference.

[versed helm]

You can call me a he for the future. I disagree with your take on my role in the conversation but hey, everybody has their own perspective

[empty bloom]

Damn. I missed out on some fun.

[unique rune]

"fun" is certainly one way to describe it

[covert tide]

Theory: the reason the Xalanyn or "Endless", are immune to the Halo array is either : 1. They are connected to the precursors and by extension the Flood. As the array was built to kill all sentient life in the galaxy preventing the flood from spreading. In other words, (as Cortana once put it) "Starve them to death". this one is the most likely as in Infinite, there is an audio log where the Harbinger, whilst talking to Lucas Brown, said specifically: "I shall talk, And YOU SHALL LISTEN"
These were the exact same words the gravemind in Halo 2 said to Chief and Arbiter on Delta Halo.
Here's a link to a YT video where she quotes the Gravemind by Opulant Halo: https://youtu.be/mqtNqmPrS4A

 Or 2. is because they weren't cataloged. I say this as there could be countless species of life that the forerunners likely never discovered even after firing the halos. that and there were conservation measures put in place to repopulate the galaxy with life after the array was fired.

What do Y'all think? could either possibilities of these

[patent patio]

Or their robots

Maybe cyborgs like the toa, matoran, and turaga from Bionicle

[covert tide]

Except that Robots and by extension AI's in Halo can be infected with something called the "Logic Plague" it's hard to explain but it's essentially a form of Torture the flood can use on AI's to induce stuff like rampancy. The most famous case of this is Mendicant Bias:
Here's 2 links to the Logic Plague and Mendicant Bias:
https://www.halopedia.org/Logic_plague
https://www.halopedia.org/Mendicant_Bias

[unique rune]

the Endless are immune to the Halo rings because they discovered the mythical everything-proof shield which is why the Forerunners sealed them away

[tropic forge]

The shields were, unfortunately, down for maintenance the day they got sealed away.

[stoic hamlet]

Darn steam maintenance. Truly, the blight of our time.

[winter wigeon]

I love how the flood aren’t just your everyday zombie they are just one of my favorite enemies nit just how they spread and how even the forerunners couldn’t beat the flood and one of the great things about the flood that I love is the logic plague just how not only they can infect people physically but mentally like with Mendicant bias and the didact (which is why he went mad and made the Prometheans ) and Cortana.the flood is an awesome enemy and they need to return in halo 7 (cause we all know that 7 is halos lucky number) and it wouldn’t be the same without them.

[unique rune]

please no

[carmine sleet]

Why must people be so intent on Halo repeating the same thing over and over? Like, they do realise that the Flood is the kind of threat that requires everyone involved to focus on them, taking the focus away from whatever the objective of each faction was before the Flood show up

[daring cloud]

So here is my question about the Halo lore, since the flood is a parasite/virus type thing, wouldn't someone be inmune, if yes, who will it be? And if the UNSC lost their spartans to the flood, are they cooked?

[carmine sleet]

The UNSC has protocols in place to deal with Flood infected Spartans

[unique rune]

wouldn't someone be inmune
No, the Flood is far too adaptive and aggressive for anything to develop a meaningful immunity
And if the UNSC lost their spartans to the flood, are they cooked?
No, they've already lost Spartans to the Flood and they were nuked from orbit before they could become a big problem

[winter wigeon]

Though a condor of flood did escape from the blast so that bit of flood did escape

[unique rune]

no

[winter wigeon]

Yes

Reread the story again and you’ll see

[unique rune]

There's no reason to assume that the Condor that the infected Julian boarded made it out

[winter wigeon]

It is possible that it survived like you said the flood are very adaptable

[unique rune]

Any remaining dropships were being recalled while the nukes from the Saturn were on the way down, a new Condor that was just arriving on the ground would've been destroyed by the nukes as they hit

[unique rune]

Adaptability doesn't mean a whole lot in the face of a pile of miniature suns exploding on them

[winter wigeon]

You never know. I am open to the idea that it was destroyed in the explosion but I am hopefully that it survived and that at some point it will show up

[unique rune]

The Flood can adapt quickly but a low-level outbreak isn't going to survive orbital nuclear bombardment

[winter wigeon]

Understandable

[stoic hamlet]

Notably, by the time the flood infected miner (it was a miner, from memory, not a Spartan) boarded the condor the asteroid was already on fire from the nuclear blasts. There would be no time to. Start the ship and leave, let alone power up the Slipspace drive.

[red viper]

There are also the many forerunner facilities scattered throughout the galaxy

[prisma oasis]

Does anyone here imagine that Banished Seraphs are the Banished-variant of the Seraphs (meaning that the color of these Seraphs are dark red and gray just like with most of the other Banished variants of the vehicles)?

[vagrant bramble]

I’d assume that’s what they are

[carmine sleet]

Banished Seraphs would be Seraphs modified and utilised by the Banished, yes

[empty bloom]

Narrative implies that the Spartan's GALLOWS successfully deployed but further countermeasures failed. No brain, no mental fight against hijacking the Condor.

Don't like the narrative of the Condor boarder being a Spartan because it doesn't really track. that said-The Condor in question only had eight slipspace jumps or so max, and we don't know what the max jump distance of a Condor is other than pointedly short, so that flood could be a problem that solves itself.

[empty bloom]

Brutes during the time of the True Covenant were known to emblazon pack symbols upon their Seraphs. I can't imagine the Banished did much different.

[prisma oasis]

Me neither. With so many Banished vehicles being derived from the designs of Covenant vehicles and being recolored to the color patterns of the Banished, this would also include Seraphs.

[vagrant bramble]

Ik this may be really stupid, but is there a “canon” difficulty in the halo games? I would think it would be legendary based off of halo ce’s unique legendary end cutscene.

[dusk jetty]

Normal is canon

[vagrant bramble]

Oh, ok lol.

[teal forum]

https://youtu.be/J1PpeVGuWz0?si=cLhaZ9LqLoNlVM-T

[unique rune]

There is no canon difficulty because a canon-accurate difficulty would be exhausting and boring to play

Heroic is the “intended” experience in the sense that it’s the one that the campaign is generally balanced around, but it’s not representative of canon

I remember reading ages ago that Heroic is supposed to be the ‘normal’ difficulty and that Normal is actually ‘easy’ (so people wouldn’t feel bad about picking it?) but I have no idea where I would’ve gotten that from.

[hexed yew]

QUESTION

HOW DO I MAKE A 8SECOND VIDEO INTO A SHORT 😭😭😭😭

I tried everything from YouTube create and yotube studio and this ain’t the right group to ask but I ASKED ALL MY FRIENDS.

[winter wigeon]

I thought that heroic was the canon difficulty

Nvm looked at the messages below it

[stoic hamlet]

Canon Halo would play more like a Ghost Recon Wildlands or more likely Breakpoint, with some of the downtime you experience in Foxhole.

But even those, of course, aren’t really fully correct, just the closest amalgamation.

[empty bloom]

I figured it'd be more of a hellish hybrid between a more 'realistic' damage system game (Insurgency), cyberpunk, and Halo itself.

Considering a punch from a Spartan can go through a human skull.

Like, I literally built my Cyberpunk character around how I felt a Spartan would 'play'.

(Sandevistan to emulate Spartan Time; Gorilla Fists to emulate their strength; high agility and speed modifiers to get the most out of mobility)

[obsidian thistle]

Canon CE is weirdly primarily Easy with dashes of other difficulties and impossible stuff like Jackals Chief faces on the POA.

And weirdly carrying rocket ammo on a mission that historically has no rocket launchers on it

(I still question why Halo: The Flood had Chief carry rocket launcher ammo during the period of the Truth and Reconciliation level)

Such a bizarre detail that remains to this day

(He doesnt even use them in that chapter lol. He just lugs them around)

[exotic pulsar]

Pretty sure it was a Spartan but I could be wrong.

Also, the only beings that could be immune to the flood would need to have extreme internal body temperatures and or skin that can't be pierced by the flood.

[patent patio]

So my immune system can't kill a single spore?

[exotic pulsar]

Once you breathe the spores in you are pretty much screwed.

[patent patio]

Damn

[exotic pulsar]

The flood infect either by inhaling the spores, or through the infection form.

The only thing I could see outside of the Halo Universe being able to stop the flood would be the Demons of Hell from Doom.

The demons of hell have natural body armor capable of stopping fifty caliber bullets without even leaving a scratch, and they also have an extreme internal body temperature, so spores and infection forms would not work.

[patent patio]

Yeah but they're like from hell

I don't think literal demons can get sick from a parasite

[exotic pulsar]

It's less getting sick and more of getting their bodies controlled and mind put into a collective.

[patent patio]

Yeah isn't the flood able to infect their hosts through a nervous system?

I doubt actual demons have anything like that

I actually dunno

[exotic pulsar]

They do got a nervous system, it's just that their internal body temperature is extremely hot.

[winter wigeon]

I heard that you could also be infected by getting injured by the combat forms whip if it pierces your skin and that type of stuff

[empty bloom]

The Spartan can't have argued back, so it had to have been a miner or marine.

Spartans on antiflood ops mount GALLOWS equipment in their helmets that automatically detonates when flood infection is detected.

Due to the nature of systems such as that, unless the flood is somehow FTL, that's an automatic kill by virtue of lacking a brain whatsoever.

[unique rune]

No, it was from Julian Donney’s (an IMC miner) perspective

By the time the last part of the story happens, any infected Spartans would’ve likely been blown to pieces or and/or on fire

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah, they could use the body, (headless though it is) but there’d be nothing there mind wise. It would have been destroyed by GALLOWS.

[empty bloom]

Meanwhile the humble .50 BMG in Doom slayer's hands apparently works just fine.

Always did call Bull on Doom's in-universe stat claims. UEG tech kills Demons all the time, they just have more numbers and can teleport.

[stoic hamlet]

This is mentioned a few times in the audio logs.

The UAC killed/are killing millions at a time, but they have billions and, as you said, can teleport.

[wispy pewter]

All they need are vaccines and lockdowns to destroy the flood

[empty bloom]

You really thought you were cooking with that one, huh.

[exotic pulsar]

That's because they are getting hit by multiple rounds of 50 BMG. Also the UAC and UEG tech has access to Argent Energy, which they have used to make plasma that can harm demons because they use the same material.

[empty bloom]

You can kill a target in one hit with a .50 BMG in Doom Eternal.

[exotic pulsar]

Depends on the target.

Fodder enemies? Sure.

[empty bloom]

Not really, you can heavily damage many larger targets who allegedly can't be harmed.

[exotic pulsar]

The main problem still is the extreme inner body temperature. Demons do let out argent plasma which is stable at higher than thought possible temperatures. I mean, parts of their bodies do glow then there is the doom eternal baron ofhell who is just on fire all the time.

[wispy pewter]

has the Doom guy tried holy water

[sonic lagoon]

With a holy diver.

[gusty star]

Halo chat not doom

[covert tide]

Should Halo 7 Show off Ruins of the Senecent Ark, (Greater Ark in lore)?

[empty bloom]

As long as there's a good narrative reason for it.

[prisma flame]

I've never played doom 😅

[hexed yew]

What

[bronze prawn]

How close are the san shyuum to extinction

With half jaw and some elites hunting them across the galaxy

[stoic hamlet]

not close enough

In actuality we don’t know. They’re probably not doing too well, though.

[wispy pewter]

those slimey traitors

[thorn spindle]

Maybe the cooler ones are ok

[obsidian thistle]

The Bestiarum circa 2552 estimated around 1000 High Charity ones remain

That number has probably gone down since with people likely hunting them

(Which is a shame as a LOT of San'Shyuum were victims themselves. Not knowing their leadership lied to them)

[unborn patrol]

Theres always some casual genocide goin on in this universe

[obsidian thistle]

I also imagine a few San'Shyuum are in the tragic place of being slaves in the growing trade of them in the galaxy.

At least 343i/HS arnt blind to the innocent, lied to, or good San'Shyuum. With stories like Halo: Shadow of Intent and Halo: Broken Circle showing that.

And continuing to expand upon that threads (without them) in stories like that Waypoint Chronicle Halo: Anvil Accord. 🙂 So HS hasnt forgotten the impact of said San'Shyuum.

[ocean kite]

I have a question, since the San'Shyuum weren't devolved like humans were after the forerunner war, would they retain their memories after the rings were fired to wipe out the flood?
Or was part of the reseeding process to devolve them too?

[obsidian thistle]

There is a lot to be said that reseeding people on a planet to fend for themselves. Rebuilding society. With the added time after meaning everyone who would "remember" were long dead. It probably didnt help them too much in the grand scheme of things.

But there was the suggestion in the Halo: Fractures - "Promises to Keep" story that due to some San'Shyuum overhearing Forerunners talking and the Forerunners thinking no harm would come from it that... that yes some advancements did come from that.

@ocean kite

[carmine sleet]

I forgot we knew what Edward Davis looked like. I wonder how he got that scar

[fervent birch]

Listening to Rubicon Protocol rn, and it’s making me like Horvath even more than I did before

What a cool dude

[carmine sleet]

Horvath is great

Wouldn't mind seeing him show up in Halo 7 at all

[bronze prawn]

Horvath ... his name I think I heard it before

That spartan IV who allied with a brute, the brute betrayed him and eventually he killed this brute

[carmine sleet]

This guy

[empty bloom]

Technically they weren't so much allied as working together with the implicit understanding that they'd resume trying to kill eachother the moment they both got away.

[wispy pewter]

the most based IV tbh

[wispy pewter]

Brian or something

[carmine sleet]

We literally mentioned his name multiple times a couple messages above yours... How did you somehow manage to get his name so wrong?

[wispy pewter]

Oh I was referring to Gorian

[prisma oasis]

Speaking of that, a mundicide was committed.

[empty bloom]

I still find it kind of funny that people keep acting like the physical difference between IIs and IVs is somehow noteworthy when melee contests between IVs and xenos actually has a higher win ratio than IIs and xenos.

To date, I'm pretty sure the only melee-fight 1v1 losses IVs have actually had were ambushes from behind, or other Spartans, to include other IVs.

[carmine sleet]

Yeah but how else are they gonna blindly praise the older Spartans

[empty bloom]

Oh, I guess there was Makovich, who lost in a 1v1 to Jega offscreen.

Even then, that was... 3 months after Zeta ringfall?

And Thorne lost to Gek, as well, but had taken a sword to the chest literally a day or two beforehand.

[carmine sleet]

Not just Gek, he was beat up by the Elites that found him right after teleporting to Requiem

Though not without taking a bunch out first

[empty bloom]

I don't really count 7v1 as a 1v1, Eon.

[carmine sleet]

Fair point

[empty bloom]

So thinking on it, it's basically just IVs losing after getting worf effect, or losing to another Spartan. Previous injury/damage impeding them.

[orchid kettle]

To be fair, Gek was the greatest Sangheili warrior of all time

woulda no diffed the Arbiter if he had just worn a helmet so DeMarco didn't one shot him

[carmine sleet]

Don't forget he was blinded in one eye by a scavenger. Maybe if that hadn't happened, he'd have noticed DeMarco

[thorn spindle]

S2s r cooler. more of them dying during procedures getting kidnapped and only the best of da best making it thru. Now u take vitamin pill and become spartan yay cool story

[unique rune]

any Spartan-IV can’t cook
all they know is mcdonald’s , charge they phone, twerk, eat hot chip & lie

[carmine sleet]

But they do the twerking real good

And that goes for all of them

[empty bloom]

Subjective. IIs are lame as hell in my mind.

Also... IVs have literally every single organ in their chest removed during their aug process. Why does nobody remember that.

They literally have graphene nanotube implants in their damn skeletons.

Congrats, you had birth juju to make you be 'the guy'. Not like the IVs, who had to fight through the blood and dirt to earn their place. IIs are privileged, IVs earned it.

[shy wave]

I'm about to finish cole protocol. Should I read cryptum or glasslands next?

[empty bloom]

Sounds like a personal choice.

[thorn spindle]

what

[empty bloom]

Spartan II selection process was genetic predisposition. IV selection process was "Whoa you're really damn good at killing Covenant and surviving, like, exceptionally good. Want an upgrade?"

Spartan IIs are genetically priveleged and did not 'earn' their Spartandom. IVs fought like hell to earn theirs.

[patent patio]

For science ig lol

[carmine sleet]

So here's a question, was Black Team the only Spartans stationed at 03/Ivanoff Station in 2557?

I was thinking about this while looking at notes for my Halo 4 mod ideas and it got me wondering

[glacial coral]

Trenchbird, I'd have to say they earned it through childhood training....and watching their fellow Spartans die from augmentation.

[thorn spindle]

lets goooo genetic BEASTS!!

olympians!

its like the forerunners genetically altering for purpose resulting in a super being from the cell onward

[lean night]

You know what I want more from the lore... More books that have space battles in as much description as they were in ghost of onyx.

[ocean kite]

Ahh ok I see, thank you!

[glacial coral]

Does anyone else get the feeling that 343 Industries/Halo Studios is wrapping up all their loose ends in the fiction? Outcasts wrapped up Oblivion. Point of Light wrapped up Rion Forge AND Chakas. The latest Waypoint Chronicle wrapped up inconsistencies in Halo 2's campaign. The Majority and Minority of AI were addressed in Firewall, as well as Sloan. We wrapped up the Ur-Didact's story. And now the next novel, Empty Throne, is going to go over Sali 'Nyon and what he's been doing.

I once said in a comment on YouTube that one of the only ways I'll be okay with Halo getting rebooted is if either they pull a Mortal Kombat 9 approach, where the reboot is canonical to the story, OR if they finish the story before starting over.

I get the feeling the latter may be happening after all.

[orchid kettle]

Outcasts kinda just feels like the natural end to a story Denning's been telling for years, and one could argue Rion's story was over the moment she learned her father was dead and came to terms with that.

[glacial coral]

Yeah, but doesn't it feel like they're wrapping EVERYTHING up?

[orchid kettle]

In direct contrast to what you've pointed out, we've recently learned about the existence of Janissaries, and we've reintroduced the NCA and Zane by folding them into the Banished. And of course, the whole deal with the Endless in general.

The situation on the Ark is also still up in the air, with Divine Wind only making it more complicated by throwing Lopis and the Ferret gang into the mix, along with a Prelate leading actual Covenant remnant

Sloan is also hardly resolved, with him potentially pumping out Executors in the background, adding to the growing list of Spartan analogues in the setting. Along with Adam researching rumble drugs.

[glacial coral]

I think they're gonna address these things soon. Plus we need to know what happened to Ellen Anders.

[orchid kettle]

I think whats happening is that some plot threads have just ran their course, others were severed when we shifted from the "Reclaimer Saga" of Halo 4 and 5 into whatever Infinite is now, which now comes with its own story lines.

[glacial coral]

The entirety of Halo's lore is so damn fastinating. I have so much stored in physical condition.

Also, how do I add photos on Discord? Apparently I don't have that option.

[orchid kettle]

I dont think you can here. They tend to restrict that on big official servers.

[glacial coral]

Oh. Okay. Thank you.

I don't knoe if anyone remembers me asking a long while back about all the archives of online-only lore in the Canon Fodder posts being found. Well, I did it. I found all of it. Printed out every bit of story and lore that was only shared on there. Took a while. But now I have 4 notebook binders with printed lore of Halo that are found as text and images only online.

[empty bloom]

IVs had to get adulthood training that brought trained ODSTs to their knees before they got augmented too.

And not dying to rudimentary augmentations isn't much of a W.

[glacial coral]

A win? No. More like a very painful loss. Watching people you care about die or become crippled due to events outside your control.

[empty bloom]

Hence the not much of a W.

Congrats, you survived Halsey throwing things at the wall to see what stuck.

[glacial coral]

Same with the Spartan-IIIs. Damn, look at Tom and Lucy. Watching over 300 S-III's die in a mission that was supposed to get you two killed as well.

Do the IIs and IIIs earn their place as Spartans like the IVs? No. But they are no strangers to sacrifice.

[empty bloom]

Hence why it's stupid to crap on IVs for 'not earning their place', lmao.

Almost all lost a large number of comrades. Hell, Buck is older than most IIs.

[glacial coral]

At least the IVs had normal lives. It's the one thing that IIs and IIIs will NEVER have.

[empty bloom]

I would not call a live lived as a soldier the moment you turned 18 a 'normal' life.

[glacial coral]

Better than starting put as a soldier at 6.

[empty bloom]

Hell, Spartan Tanaka was orphaned at around... 15? 16?

Spartan Locke was orphaned around 12.

Tanaka wasn't rescued til she was around 18 and Locke hated the UNSC when he was orphaned.

[glacial coral]

I swear, sometimes I wish the Spartans, especially the IIs, could just live with civilians. If only for a short while. Sometimes you need to see exactly what it is you're protecting.

[empty bloom]

Feels like another boon for IVs, lmao.

That they'd know.

That they'd have that extra bit of knowledge and heart.

The IVs that we've seen tend to take the fact they failed at saving people much harder.

Stone to the point of utterly hating herself over it.

[glacial coral]

Putting aside our sorrows of the Spartans. There has been much talk about Halo Studios remaking Halo 1, 2 and 3. I have a theory as to how it could still work inside the pre established Halo lore.

The Endless are theorized (theorized, mind you) that they survived the Halo's firing by manipulating time. What if the events of Halo 1-3 were an attempt by the endless to somewhat try to change the present? Hence why modern mechanics and original cut content would be included in the remakes? And once it's finished, the characters learn of what's happened and are brought back to the present (year 2560 I think).

And then the next game gears up for the final fight.

[empty bloom]

Any time travel for Halo is degenerate and disgusting and I want nothing to do with it.

I refuse to discuss the concept except to lampoon how awful of an idea it is.

[glacial coral]

If you don't like that, then something tells me you'll hate my idea of how the story of Halo should end.

Or at least, of how I picture John-117's demise.

[empty bloom]

If it involves timetravel, yes, I will hate it.

[bronze prawn]

Why do you hate timetravel that much

thats a prettty but not quite strong point to stablish

[stoic hamlet]

All of them. He’s older than all of them.

[glacial coral]

I envision the Flood are running rampant. Everyone's fighting for dominance causes their spread to grow uncontestrd until it's too late. Eventually, survivours of all races find Trevallyn (I hope I spelled that right) and hide inside, as Master Chief goes to the Ark, fires the rings and sacrificing his life in the process. And before the rings fire, he takes off his helmet, pulls out the coin Halsey gave him and smiles.

And at this point Humanity has basically come full circle by making the same sacrifice as the Forerunners.

[empty bloom]

I thought he was a month or so younger than Kelly?

[empty bloom]

Yep, not a fan at all.

[empty bloom]

It's the coward's way out of a good story.

[stoic hamlet]

Oh, I thought he was 2510.

Nvm.

But anyways, yeah, he’s an oldie~

[empty bloom]

Cortana bullying him for being the same age as Chief, lmao

[bronze prawn]

And I love Bucks reaction like

"did she just call me old ? "

[glacial coral]

So do you think the remakes of 1 2 and 3 will just be a side project and non canonical?

[empty bloom]

I think it's goofball fanfiction written by people who don't have a look behind the curtain and prefer blind guessing for nostalgia's sake.

[glacial coral]

Because if they're including cut content, then that's gonna change a lot of lore written around those games. Case in point, Halo: Uprising.

[terse lava]

Have not heard of them remaking CE,2, and 3. Feels like a waste of time for that

[orchid kettle]

modern devs could not hope to understand CE

they fear the idea of a pistol being stronger than the rifle

[stoic hamlet]

That’s more due to its small sandbox.

In a remake I’m sure we’d see a BR, DMR, etc.

[patent patio]

Damn but how would they differentiate them to give them specific roles? Especially with other possible precision weapons coming

Wait this is lore and universe, not gameplay :v

My bad

[stoic hamlet]

Variety is the spice of life.

And I mean, lorewise they would function very similarly.

Shocking, I know.

[orchid kettle]

Modern devs could not hope to understand CE.

they fear the idea of a small weapon sandbox with little overlap

[stoic hamlet]

The MA5K, for example, has had its most recent depiction as a DMR.

*in the books.

[orchid kettle]

I dunno what it is, but I never really vibed with semi-automatic rifles

[patent patio]

I mean obviously but yknow. Give them specific upsides and downsides so that you always don't pick one over the other

[orchid kettle]

but I always enjoyed pistols in games

[stoic hamlet]

But obviously in game it’s an “SMG”.

[stoic hamlet]

Halo’s always failed at this, though.

The BR has been the king since its introduction. It’s basically killed the Delta Arena playlist, for example.

[patent patio]

With that in mind, they probably made the gun a automatic one cuz there's a bunch of precision guns in Infinite already. Commando, Stalker Rifle, Sniper, Shocker, Mangler, Skewer, BR, Bandit and Evo etc

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah, but that’s what I mean, lore the lord has never had any basis or effect on gameplay.

For example the BR’s first canonical use saw it used in semi-automatic/single shot, but in game it’s always used in three round burst.

The MA5 has been used in single shot and burst as well.

But this has never affected gameplay.

[unique rune]

thinking about how you move faster with a turret in ODST than you do in regular Halo 3

[orchid kettle]

the lord?

[stoic hamlet]

🙏

[orchid kettle]

Its just honestly real tough to have those variations matter meaningful in a game like Halo where the player is largely concerned about strippin' shields and popping heads.

[patent patio]

It would be easy enough to make these guns viable and unique on their own for a single player experience, but when we get to the MP

[orchid kettle]

Loadout shooters I think can get away with a million variants on more or less the same gun because the player can just pick the variant they like best, and they'll find universal ammo as they go

while Halo has weapon-specific ammo, usually.

Infinite's campaign obviously gave us kinetic ammo crates but when the game is so big and wide I found that the BR's long range precision was almost always the correct answer

[patent patio]

Yeah but unlike other shooters, I think Halo/343 actually tries to balance their sandbox unlike COD which has very apparent meta weapons

[stoic hamlet]

When we get to the multiplayer the more variety the better.

[patent patio]

Well depending on how you handle your sandbox, more is less

[orchid kettle]

Halo also tries to craft an experience from managing ammo and swapping weapons on the fly, and the tools that are or are not available to the player play into that

[stoic hamlet]

I don’t want a guy with a BR to completely shut down any counter play when I have the bandit or commando… but they do.

The more things that can fill the same role is better than a player being gimped because they prefer a different weapon.

[orchid kettle]

Not that other games dont let you pick up enemy weapons, but usually the enemy just has like, an Evil Assault Rifle

which does almost everything your starting Assault Rifle did anyway

[unique rune]

but eeeeevil

[patent patio]

Lol

[stoic hamlet]

It has a curved or helical mag so it’s eeeeeeeevil~

[orchid kettle]

the evil Rifle will do more damage but have more recoil to symbolize the bad guys' reckless greed and lust for more power

[patent patio]

What the #$&*

Lol

[stoic hamlet]

Alternatively more ammo per mag.

Which I think is true of literally every sci-fi game, lol

Killzone, Resistance, Halo, Crysis, Gears…

Vanquish

Fracture

[orchid kettle]

Well in theory Id argue the Battle Rifle and Bandit are trying to do different things entirely even if they're both human precision rifles

I dunno what the idea is with the Commando, they overhaul it every patch

[patent patio]

The commando was supposed to bridge the automatic weapons and precision weapons together

[unique rune]

I think they started with the idea that a full-auto precision weapon would be cool and never quite figured out where to go from there

[stoic hamlet]

It was basically a harder hitting AR with a bit more range.

[patent patio]

A middle ground of some sorts but it's always getting nerfed or buffed

[stoic hamlet]

It was better pre-recent patch.

The BR is so dominant I don’t think it’s wrong that it also gets a good time to shine.

[patent patio]

Ok I got a question. Is this gun like ever worth picking up because I dont

[stoic hamlet]

If you have a BR nothing is.

Otherwise it can be exceptionally deadly at mid range.

[patent patio]

Br is justifiable IMO. It's a precision weapon so it should reward your skill in aiming

[orchid kettle]

Kinda the issue is that headshots only matter when the player is one-shot, but if you shoot the commando at somebody, it will become more inaccurate over time

[patent patio]

I ain't ever trading a SPNKR for a mangler

[orchid kettle]

meaning when its time for the headshot property to matter, you cant hit the broad side of a barn

[patent patio]

I always saw the commando as a suppressive weapon. I can't ever reliably kill with it (maybe I suck) so I just use it to pile on pressure

[orchid kettle]

I always felt like the strat shoulda been to give the commando a predictable recoil pattern, so like experienced players would know that the seventh bullet fired always landed on this spot on the screen, and could plan accordingly

[unique rune]

I usually don’t have issues with the Commando as long as I’m tap firing

[stoic hamlet]

It’s three round burst means you can be a bit more inaccurate, but it has no recoil or bloom. It’s literally a laser beam.

Compared to every other precision weapon it’s incredibly overturned.

[orchid kettle]

Yeah, it just kinda ends up feeling like you're playing a BR that constantly tempts you into making a mistake by holding the trigger down

[stoic hamlet]

I still remember in SWAT games where I could just lazily sweep it over three enemies and get a triple kill, because each bullet kills in one shot.

[patent patio]

Compares to other BRs, the bullet magnetism is way smaller. It's harder to hit shots than the other BRs.

Wait I just forgot where I was going with this damn

[unique rune]

Yeah the full auto seems a bit silly when you’re basically forced to treat it more like the Carbine from previous titles

[orchid kettle]

I always felt like the thing with the BR should be that while it can touch players from just about any range, it should do pitiful damage. But as a result, its perfect for finishing off weakened players

[stoic hamlet]

At mid range you can reliably fill auto someone.

[orchid kettle]

But I think its kinda too engrained in the fanbase that a BR kills in 4 shots

[patent patio]

Yeah buts that SWAT. Maybe a precision weapon that literally burst fires would probably be overpowered

[orchid kettle]

in which case, you cannot give it sniper levels of range

[patent patio]

No don't ever give it that range

[orchid kettle]

oh why hello there Halo 3 ODST magnum, I didnt see you there

[patent patio]

I don't if this was intentional or not but I found it weird how there was never a BR in the infection gamemode of Halo 5

[stoic hamlet]

Sure, but a weapon with 3 round burst with no bloom or any recoil compared to every other ranged weapon having such is overtuned regardless of the mode.

A three round burst should have bloom and recoil. If anything a weapon like the bandit should be the no bloom/recoil weapon.

It also has more ammo than either of its counterparts.

[patent patio]

I once played a custom match of Riptide with a BR and it was horrible for the infected. Some guns just shouldn't be in some gamemodes

[orchid kettle]

343 tried to mitigate this by lowering the RoF, but clearly Delta Arena has shown that just doesnt matter when you have a huge accuracy and range advantage over other guns

[stoic hamlet]

It’s just objectively the best tool in your arsenal and there’s no reason to pick anything else.

[orchid kettle]

I do think it has allowed the MA5K to shine as like a personal defense weapon or an ambush tool

If you get in somebody's face with the 5K and they have a BR, you will shred them to pieces.

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah.

But the BR makes picking up basically everything else worthless.

Why pick a bandit or commando when the BR can do exactly what they do but better and from a longer range?

I have no reason to weapon scavenge now.

[patent patio]

Because is a BR is harder, a bandit and commando will rise to the occasion cuz their easier to use

[unique rune]

It’s really not harder lol

[stoic hamlet]

I have no reason to move either, because most maps I’ll be plinked down from the other side of the map.

[patent patio]

I guess it really just depends on the map tbh

[unique rune]

the recoil off Infinite’s BR is super manageable and it’s got very predictable and reliable behavior at any distance

[patent patio]

Idk if yall be shredding with a BR in close quarters

[stoic hamlet]

They are not easier to use. lol

The commando is arguably the hardest precision weapon in the game.

The bandit lacks the range and RoF to compete.

[patent patio]

I don't think a gun functioning worse than another gun is a good reason to justify its not easier to use

Do yall wreck with a BR in CQC?

[stoic hamlet]

Yes.

[patent patio]

Damn

I suck

I'm actually cooked

I'm deep fried

[stoic hamlet]

The only time I have trouble is if they have an MA5K.

[unique rune]

even ignoring that it far outperforms its competitors in its own category

[patent patio]

I'm garnished

I'm baked

[orchid kettle]

no because I hate Infinite's melee

[patent patio]

I'm actually steamed

[unique rune]

you can keep a BR on hand and then just leave your second slot open for whatever and essentially be prepared for anything

[orchid kettle]

there's like some weird thing where if you're walking backwards and melee you dont lunge

[patent patio]

I'm literally prepped

[orchid kettle]

I dunno if that was ever changed but I just dont trust melee in this game

[patent patio]

I'm toasted

I'm sizzled

[orchid kettle]

which is probably why Im so quick to use my 5K over my fists

[patent patio]

I'm seriously smoked

[unique rune]

you can stop that now

[patent patio]

Nah

Lol but damn I actually suck at this game then :<

[stoic hamlet]

I’m not good, but I’m not bad, either. Depends on the day.

Usually top three of the board.

On a good day MVP.

[patent patio]

I'm gonna be honest. I haven't played Infinite in a while

So like

I'm just scoping out the situation now ig. Does the AR actually suck that it can't stand against a BR in CQC

[unique rune]

I mean
it’s fine

but a BR can challenge an AR pretty consistently

[stoic hamlet]

^^^

[patent patio]

Are you kidding me

[stoic hamlet]

No.

The BR is cracked.

[patent patio]

Your telling me that the automatic gun that's actually supposed to excel in mid-close ranges can't compete

Bruh

[stoic hamlet]

Play a single game in Delta Arena on either Warlock or Ascension and wish for death.

[unique rune]

the AR’s always kinda gotten hosed by the BR in Halo titles lol

[patent patio]

So I'm guessing the new SMG is just a better version of AR?

[stoic hamlet]

It’s the most annoying, aggravating thing you’ll play in this game.

[stoic hamlet]

They both have a good place, actually

[patent patio]

?

[stoic hamlet]

Like there’s a notable difference

[patent patio]

Enlighten me :<

[stoic hamlet]

The AR can properly engage from a longer range, not massive, but noticeable.

[unique rune]

the MA5K is much more specialized to close range and it pretty much shreds things up close but drops off hard with distance

[stoic hamlet]

The AR’s not as good as it was as a burster (I miss it D:) but it’s still definitely more mid range.

[patent patio]

So what guns can effectively show up the BR besides the obvious

[stoic hamlet]

Stalker rifle.

Sniper if you get the one shot.

sometimes the mangler, but very rarely.

Otherwise, nothing else

[patent patio]

I'm guessing the mangler cuz of it's one shot then melee combo?

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah.

[patent patio]

Aight

[stoic hamlet]

Though if you get lucky and they miss a burst you can kill them.

But they need to miss that burst.

[patent patio]

If I'm lucky :<

[empty bloom]

Y'know, if I could retcon one bit of gun lore, it'd be the MA5B's default ammo capacity. I'd literally just make it so the standard mag cap was 32 or 36, and make the MA5B's 60 rounders something they rarely issued as an extended mag option for special forces.

Not that the distinction for the MA series being partly affected by mag size ever made sense to me.

Like, an MA5D with an extended magazine and sentinel scope somehow isn't a special variant called an 'MA5Dxr', but the goofy MA5C is? Alrighty.

[exotic pulsar]

Apparently someone doesn't like the fun of having extra ammo. I honestly wish they would bring back the MA5B becauseit's my favorite AR.

[carmine sleet]

SMGs and SAWs exist in Halo for that reason

[exotic pulsar]

The MA5B was designed to be used in ship engagements anyways? That doesn't mean it can't be used outside of a ship.

Besides, the SMG is a close range weapon, also the SAW if it's anything like the real thing, would be rather difficult to use in an building.

Imagine trying to use a SAW in a ship which is nothing but tight corridors.

[empty bloom]

Apparently I just know what lugging around over 400+ rounds of 7.62x51 feels like, lmao.

It ain't fun.

Then again I'm sure most Halo fans haven't even seen that many bullets at once IRL outside of a gun store or touched something with a fire selector with more than two modes, safe or fire.

Alternatively I'd consider making the MA series a 5.56 or 6.8 line. It'd be more consistent with the performance of the rifles over the series.

I don't look at it in a gameplay manner, I look at it in a practicality manner.

[obsidian thistle]

Reminder Halo 5 introduced the weird Extended mag.

[carmine sleet]

Not seeing anything saying it was designed for ship engagements. Not sure where you got that from or the idea that I thought it can't be used outside a ship

[obsidian thistle]

It probably wont see use again that H5G Extended Mag. But it exists

[carmine sleet]

SMGs being a close range weapon isn't an issue for me, I like playing up close with one. Not to mention would make it great for ship boarding actions

[carmine sleet]

I understand the reasons behind why it was done the way it was from a gameplay perspective, since it meant they didn't need to modify animations for reloading all the weapons, but I do wish they'd have made a new magazine model

[exotic pulsar]

They probably chose the caliber they did because it would allow the AR to chew through armor with it's fire rate.

[exotic pulsar]

The problem is that the SMG wouldn't have the "punch" needed for longer ranges as it uses 5.7x28mm caseless rounds. It is better suited for engagements inside of buildings, stations, and ships. It's got 220 yards minimum, 2000 maximum. Though who know what it would be in the M7 SMG.

[exotic pulsar]

Well, it's used by the UNSC Marine Corps exclusively. As the army prefers to use the MA37. Marines are generally assigned onto ships, so the MA5B would be an ideal AR for ship engagements due to it's fire power, and fire rate.

[carmine sleet]

I wasn't saying the SMG should be used at longer ranges?

[carmine sleet]

You know that marines aren't just exclusive to being on board ships, right? Like, you do know that they're deployed from the ships

[exotic pulsar]

Never said you did. My reply was that it’s caliber while making it dangerous up close, would loose effectiveness if trying to use it as a longer range. The MA5B is the perfect middle ground between the SMG and SAW.

[exotic pulsar]

Yes I know we have seen that all of the time. It’s just that the MA5B was exclusively used by marines as it would be an effective weapon for repelling boarding actions but also be useful on the ground. Then the MA5C came around and it’s used by both the marines and navy.

[empty bloom]

No, it's been pretty explicit since day one that Bungie didn't really know a lot about how guns work.

Moreover it was likely they just had a guy who knew what 7.62 was and went 'oh, that sounds workable' and that was the most thought that got put into it.

[carmine sleet]

Bungie's still not great at designing weapons that make sense half the time given how half the weapons in Destiny look

[orchid kettle]

I was kinda fine with the idea that the 5C was just a bunch of little tweaks that were meant to improve the rifle's performance without really reinventing the wheel

[empty bloom]

I'd say a lot look AI generated but they were goofy before iterative algos.

[orchid kettle]

But now its canon that the B and C have different proportions, which I don't think was clear before. Obviously the 5C looks longer if you have eyes, but it could have just been like, an art style update.

and that "in-universe", the two would have looked nearly indistinguishable

[empty bloom]

A weird inability to just say 'nah it's just an art style update' really is Halo's double edged sword, huh.

[carmine sleet]

It's a weird one, because there are some that look pretty good (At least to me who knows allot less than other people about firearms) but there's plenty where it's just slapping a magazine into an area where it cannot possibly feed ammo into the weapon because there's a hole for your thumb to go through to properly grip the weapon

[carmine sleet]

I genuinely think if they'd just gone "The Halo 3 AR is the MA5B with more details", there'd still be people complaining

[orchid kettle]

Yeah. There's just a part of me that wishes we had one MA5 in the franchise, barring like, the MA5K or older hand me downs used by Army or Insurrectionists

[unique rune]

clearly they use portals to transport the cartridges to the chamber

[carmine sleet]

Unironically, someone tried to tell me that's how one of the weapons worked when it was super obvious that it was meant to be a standard magazine fed rifle without any space magic

Like, at least with some Destiny weapons, I could buy it being a battery (Though that's a very small number of weapons)

[carmine sleet]

I wouldn't be against that. So long as the MA5D, specifically Halo 5's iteration of it, is still separate

[stoic hamlet]

Even the MA5K they should just say is the current in game variant, but obviously, you know, shorter in lore.

I genuinely don’t think many people would fuss over that.

[orchid kettle]

I really only want the 5K around because I can respect the idea of a "special forces" MA5, especially when the SMG's stats are just too weak to really feel like something ODSTs or Spartans would trust as their primary means of shredding aliens.

If anything I like treating the SMG as like a machine pistol alternative to the Magnum instead of as a proper primary

[stoic hamlet]

Same.

At least in a military context.

Police and security guys having it as their main sort of weapon is perfectly fine.

[orchid kettle]

It seems perfect for like, a body guard or undercover ONI agent to whip out from under a coat, yeah

[exotic pulsar]

Yeah, but the 5C isn't even modular. The only thing it can equip is a underbarrel grenade launcher.

[orchid kettle]

Well its only not modular until somebody says otherwise. In Fall of Reach, Chief just swaps out the barrel of his 5B, for one that can accept a suppressor

[obsidian thistle]

Its not really modular. The book makes note of that

[orchid kettle]

I mean, what else would you call being able to swap out the barrel for a threaded one and being able to replace the fore end with a grenade launcher or shotgun?

There's no picatinny rails we can see, but that's about it.

[stoic hamlet]

It’s definitely modular.

But not a modern idea of modular.

It’s the 80’s/early 90’s idea of modular.

[orchid kettle]

Its mentioned in contact harvest that there's physical sights for the 5B as well

well, CH only ever calls it the MA5, and similar only ever says "M6", but I assume it's meant to be the 5B

fans have kinda interpreted this as like, sights welded on top of the ammo counter and barrel shroud, but I honestly wonder if Staten just meant that the recruits were shooting with the ammo counter/shroud removed.

I kinda feel like if 343/HS updated the MA5B design today (with hopefully a lot more care than the MA5 Evolved), picatinny rails would just magically appear the second you popped the ammo counter/shroud and the fore end off

and it would just be a super plain looking bullpup

[obsidian thistle]

To note: "They double-checked their gear: modified MA5B assault rifles, adapted to mount silencers" - Halo: The Fall of Reach, Chapter 20

I always took the fact the rifles were modified to mean they had to go out their way to add the silencer, and it wasnt a simple addition.

[obsidian thistle]

So I kinda disagree here. 😛

[stoic hamlet]

The MA5D model in H5 definitely implies this, IMO.

[obsidian thistle]

(I only have that quote on hand cause I made a fuss on Halopedia regarding the modified MA5B)

[orchid kettle]

Personally to me "modified" sounds interchangeable. Like yeah, swapping barrels isn't quite as clean and easy as just slapping on a laser sight

[stoic hamlet]

The MA40 and 37 have them under the shroud.

[orchid kettle]

But like, you can't barrel swap a musket

at least, itd probably be a lot more difficult

[stoic hamlet]

Feels like the MA5B/C/D/K would as well.

[orchid kettle]

But it's worth pointing out that Linda's SRS99 is stated to be modular and Linda swapped dang near everything to get it to fire a different round and accept a suppressor

That's probably not something she'd attempt out in the field either

[stoic hamlet]

She just uses Nornfang now, because it’s just so super special.

ugh

[orchid kettle]

i find it funny as well in Halo 5, the "long barrel" attachment is just adding a new flash hider to your gun

which I don't think counts as a longer barrel

[obsidian thistle]

This reminds me I need to figure out how to handle the MA37/40 series on Halopedia

Cause the Encyclopedia seems to have retconned the MA37 into not being a MA5 anymore. Which is fine with me

(Not a bad retcon. Always was weird)

[empty bloom]

So would that mean the MA40 is also not an MA5?

[orchid kettle]

apparently it "incorporates a number of updates made to the MA5 production line"

[obsidian thistle]

Pretty much if the MA37/40 were MA5s... that statement (and others) are weird

[orchid kettle]

What I find strange is that little caveat about how the MA40 is the standard-issued "heavy rifle" of the UNSC

[obsidian thistle]

It would be like saying "here is a MA5, it incorporates improvements to itself that were already done."

[orchid kettle]

which I guess implies the 5D is still out there and relatively popular?

[carmine sleet]

Well we know the 5D was used on Zeta

[orchid kettle]

I dunno what makes the MA40 a "heavy rifle" in comparison to a 5D, unless its only "heavy" in comparison to BRs

I do feel like it makes some sense to treat the MA rifle as like an IAR, while the BR is the actual standard service rifle. Then you can leave the DMR as, well, a DMR instead or it competing with the BR.

[stoic hamlet]

There’s this weird thing as well with the MA5K Avenger… where it used MA40 parts… but is still classified as an MA5K…

So… what makes it an MA5K over an MA40 model/variant? Where does the MA5K begin and the MA40 end, and vice versa?

[obsidian thistle]

The body isnt fully 1 to 1 MA40 fyi

There is missing stuff on the back stock

[orchid kettle]

The lower receiver is, but the upper isn't. I think, I'm actually not super sure if those terms apply to bullpups.

Man I wish the 5K had coatings

[obsidian thistle]

Alas the MA5K is a weapon that has seen MANY variants

Even on its og depictions

[orchid kettle]

I always liked it being tiny like we see on GoO's cover

as opposed to like, the Avenger being nearly the same length

[orchid kettle]

I feel like this is yet another instance where I find myself being disappointed by the official depiction of weapons versus previous depictions/fan depictions

like how the Stanchion was just an S7 with a big barrel

[obsidian thistle]

I am admittedly fond of the Mythos MA5K that has a design language similar to the Halo 4 weapons

[orchid kettle]

which I kinda know that's how it was on HW2, but at least in HW2, it looked absolutely massive, and unfortunately super unwieldy in the hands of the sniper guy from Sunray

[obsidian thistle]

A note to make is the Stanchion tied to Sunray isnt a traditional Stanchion

Helps that at least

I will say, knowing the MA5K can have parts swapped out or be made around stuff. This in theory allows a MA5K with MA5D parts, so on.

I suppose the benefit is. Misriah probably keep some control over the MA line and keep some standards in place to allow maintenance to be easier.

So unless a MA rifle is VERY different. You could swap some parts around while keeping it a certain weapon

[carmine sleet]

So kinda like the AK line of rifles where, baring some exceptions, you can swap parts with one made in another country and it still function just fine

[orchid kettle]

But can they share magazines

[carmine sleet]

The MA series is Halo's equivalent of the AK

[orchid kettle]

Honestly the real test I guess is if the SAW and DMR can accept different magazines of 7.62, like how the M249 could use stanag mags in a pinch

I guess SAW has a better chance because the magazine doesn't have to sit perfectly flush in the stock

[quaint narwhal]

Who would win in a fight? A modern tank or a Hunter?

[glacial coral]

Hunter.

[unique rune]

I mean I guess that depends on what you classify as a “fight”

[quaint narwhal]

Wouldn't the tank's armor be stronger that a plasma canon? Also wouldn't a tank round be stronger?

[unique rune]

Publically available info about the gun on an M1 Abrams puts its effective range at around 2 or so miles

Covenant nanolaminate might be tough but there’s still a bunch of exposed fleshy eels that would not take well to explosives

A Hunter might have a chance up close but the more distance you put between it and a tank the worse that chance gets

[exotic pulsar]

Also depends on the round I imagine. You probably would get better results slinging an HE round at a hunter as the explosive force of the impact/near impact could be enough to liquify the lekgolo.

[empty bloom]

Modern tank, handily.

Ooookay. Don't know what about that text was prohibited, but alright.

[glacial coral]

Got a question for y'all.

Since Waypoint Chronicles release lately due to updates or anniversaries, do you think we'll get one with the holiday update? I mean, honestly I'm not sure how they could. But I am really digging all these stories they're giving us!

[stoic hamlet]

From what we know… maybe? We””” definitely be getting one in January.

[tired peak]

i gpt a better question

https://i.redd.it/xiupf2jpcno61.jpg

[glacial coral]

@tired peak It does seem to be one of life's greatest mysteries.

[muted raft]

Troy Denning after explaining that mjolnir is nuerally linked for the 50th time :/

[unique rune]

l e c h a t e l i e r i t e

[versed helm]

Is there still remnants of the gravemind from Delta Halo?

[glacial coral]

@versed helm Christ, I hope not.

[raven zephyr]

precurcur

post mouse

[rustic jasper]

so, what is the chronological order of the halo series?

[muted raft]

How did humans have ftl communication during the early years of the human covenant war? Or are we just supposed to think the conversations we read take multiple days of back and forth?

[orchid kettle]

They're not supposed to, what with contact harvest having this idea of the 26th century Pony Express, where ships use their FTL drives to carry messages to and fro and that's really the only way colonies can communicate with each other

But I think we're just supposed to accept that at some point, they just do get FTL comms

Even though its again a plot point in GoO that there's only three slipspace comm launchers in existence, which just fires a little pellet containing data through slipspace

Fall of Reach though kinda breaks this by having Keyes talk to somebody in a different star system in real time, but at least that's in 2552.

[muted raft]

Yeah, I'm going through oblivion right now and chief is talking to Cole and halsey in a different solar system in what seems like real time

To be fair for fall of reach tho, that's the first halo book ever, combat evolved barely had lore so there wasn't much to go off of

[orchid kettle]

Hmmm, skimming oblivion now

There is a point where a character pauses Cole's "vid"

Could be that its just a video file John is watching

though the timeline is pretty shaky regardless, considering the original ship apparently had to take a video of Netherop, deliver it to Cole, have him look over it and record himself giving Chief these instructions, and then deliver that video to Chief

all in two days, apparently

in a setting where its supposed to take weeks or months to jump anywhere in human space

best answer I have honestly is that so many writers have been a part of Halo, little stuff like this falls by the wayside

Or in the case of slipspace travel times-- actively ignored to allow the story to happen within a short time frame

2526 is a weirdly packed year. Chief has to do Silent Storm, Forward Unto Dawn, and Oblivion all within a couple months.

and I guess also Collateral Damage is in there too because Silent Storm mentions the Cobalt armor

[muted raft]

I feel like story flow is what's taking priority over actual established technological limitations. Which is completely understandable

Some authors would rather not make speed of light communication a plot point and choose to focus on their own story instead

[orchid kettle]

Sometimes I do feel like with something like Oblivion, where its mainly just our characters starting in one location before moving to another for the rest of the story, you could stand to have a greater amount of time pass during the interim

[muted raft]

Though Troy Denning seemed to care an awful lot about coms going dark during last light

[orchid kettle]

Not like it changes much for the reader if the time stamp jumps forward a month, as long as they don't actually miss anything narratively

[muted raft]

Yeah, I don't care, just wanted to make sure I'm not missing what could have been a huge plot point

And honestly with how fast humanity adapted during the covenant war it wouldn't be surprising if they did develop it rather quickly

The covenant had instantaneous communication between galaxies at the same time chronologically

[stoic hamlet]

I appreciate Alien Romulus even more for this.

If you need to break a rule of a universe to tell your story then your story isn’t worth being told, IMO.

[muted raft]

Fair

Halo oblivion lord of the flies b plot is wild

Exactly what I expect from the author that wrote about an interspecies high school story in a universe about 30 year long conflict and the eradication of humanity

[orchid kettle]

denning didn't write legacy of onyx

[carmine sleet]

Aye, that was Forbeck

[empty bloom]

Y'know, it does kind of confuse me that we've never seen the Mantis' industrialmech counterpart.

We know it gets used for loading cargo in some locations (Halo 4 ONI MP dialogue), but other than that, we've never seen a Mantis that wasn't loaded for bear.

We've never seen the industrial Geyrion either.

Whiiiich would also imply the existence of an Industrial Colossus.

[high elbow]

I don’t see why we would see a civilian/non-combat version of mechs. Unless a book or game has scenes placed in, for example, a ship yard (that isn’t getting attacked) there really isn’t much of a point.

It would be neat, seeing a OSHA approved Mantis doing Mantis things though I admit

[carmine sleet]

I would assume a Mantis meant for heavy lifting would have similar arms to the loader seen in Aliens

Though I wonder what other Mantis variants could be out there. Like maybe a firefighter Mantis

[empty bloom]

Serves to enrich the universe. It's part of why I appreciate Halo 5's human level design so much.

Like-you want a universe to feel 'lived in', you have aspects that show your world goes beyond just the same structure, again and again, ad nauseam.

Mech units built for moving cargo, warthogs meant for hauling kit, Scorpions kitted for Anti-Air with different guns, etc etc.

It's also why having such a Chief-adventure-on-forerunner-thing is such a bad idea for a universe as expansive as Halo's, but w/e.

[empty bloom]

I figure as much, because it's boring and practical.

Really, the Mantis always reminded me a lot of a Vital Suit from Lost Planet-it just looks like something that should be heavily modular.

[carmine sleet]

Sometimes it's just gotta be those things if it does the job well

I wonder if there's a search and rescue Mantis?

Or a HAZMAT Mantis?

[glossy sun]

The Cyclops is meant lifting and construction and stuff

The green mech from Halo Wars

[empty bloom]

Not to be 'that guy', but both Eon and I already knew that.

The Mantis is derived from the Cyclops.

[carmine sleet]

Aye

[empty bloom]

It's a cousin, in terms of origin.

[glossy sun]

Ah okay

[carmine sleet]

And multiple things can do the same job

It's like how you have multiple manufacturers for cranes in the real world

[unique rune]

There’s all those Cyclops variants that Mega kept making that are… presumably still canon to some extent? I would imagine there’s probably more expensive Mantis counterparts for most of them

[empty bloom]

Wonder what sort of equipment you'd see on either. A HAZMAT Mantis would likely have a few redundant layers of cloth for reducing splatter and contamination (Real life vehicles have protective coverings for CBRN response), and likely be tapped out for Flamers of some kind.

really, the weapons would likely be the most fluid option selection, though.

[glossy sun]

Flood Combat Mantis

[carmine sleet]

I imagine, depending on the hazard it's dealing with, one of the arms would likely be something that could handle the materials without the need of anyone having to handle it personally. Though I imagine that would look similar to the aforementioned arms from the loaders

[empty bloom]

As much as I like the mantis, I honestly like it more as a concept than the actual design in-universe.

The waist and the arms irritate me.

[empty bloom]

Most likely the exact same arm, really, just with more disposable materials used in its construction.

[carmine sleet]

Aye

[empty bloom]

The Jotun-made advanced industrial-gear kit

[carmine sleet]

How would you change them?

[empty bloom]

Arms would get bulked up, more rugged-looking. Waist would lose the weird 'hinge' in favor of a dust covered setup more akin to a "Huntsman" battlemech from Battletech.

The MWO Huntsman kinda hits a lot of what I look for in Digitigrade mech design, so I'd likely rework the Mantis to have more similar arm and hip assemblies just so that it looks beefier and meaner.

The Mantis has a strangely skinny 'hook' for a waist, and the arms are very... Noodly.

[carmine sleet]

Ok, it'd been so long since I've seen a Mantis, I forgot how scrawny they were on the arms and waist

[empty bloom]

I mean, it is less than 10 tons.

It is a very lightweight walker, having a Spartan in the cockpit automatically increases its mass to 6 tons, lmao.

From 5ish

[carmine sleet]

Oh worm

[empty bloom]

But yeah-I'd likely make a lot of the mech's body rugged. If I was at home I'd consider making a mockup of a 'beefier' Mantis.

I love driving them but they always kinda let me down by virtue of looking weirdly skinny.

[carmine sleet]

Fair

Would there be any reason for those parts to ever be that skinny realistically? Like, they're obviously weak points that could be exploited when fighting one

[empty bloom]

I mean, it's a mech, by default it has two REALLY BIG weak points even without the added ones.

But then, so does a tank.

They'd slim front/side profile, but honestly, I think it's more a consequence of 4/5 somewhat aping Metal Gear aesthetics.

The torso of the Cyclops always reminded me strongly of Metal Gears.

[carmine sleet]

Aye. I still need to play the MG games but even I know the Mantis would feel right at home in those games

[empty bloom]

People act like 4/5 made the artstyle 'power rangers' but anyone who knows much about Metal Gear and its less realistic equipment elements knows that it's aping Metal Gear, lmao.

Just look at the MJOLNIR GEN2 techsuit then look at Raiden in MGS4.

[carmine sleet]

Anyone who looks at 4 and 5 and thinks Power Rangers clearly hasn't seen Power Rangers

Like, when do Osiris form a giant mech to fight generic goons

[empty bloom]

The shoulders are the biggest giveaway IMO

They both have that same curved 'muscle' aesthetic

Honestly I should make a video pointing this out sometime

Because it's always been one of the 'criticisms', and I use that term loosely because it's blithely spurting falsehoods, that always rankled me.

[empty bloom]

Also, Chimera has the same leg plating as MGS4 Raiden.

Well, similar at any rate

[carmine sleet]

I see it

Chimera my beloved

[empty bloom]

Chimera is basically a hybrid of GEN2 MJOLNIR, the Crysis Nanosuit, and Raiden's augmentations.

[carmine sleet]

And aye, I remember the comparisons people made to the Nanosuit

[empty bloom]

I'm understating how much the power rangers comparison just flatly pisses me off lmao

Like highkey I seethe over it

[carmine sleet]

I get that. It's just such a weird comparison that when you think about it for more than 3 seconds, you realise how bad of a comparison it is

Anyway, I still love how some armour pieces for Chimera use your visor colour, definitely helps make it stand out more

I'm now thinking of swapping to my Chimera core...

[unique rune]

they should have done that

[unborn patrol]

The material is really interesting as an armor piece

[patent patio]

Have you seen Power Rangers beating up a bunch of bad guys without their mechs?

Idk. I don't think I believe the Power Ranger thing, but yeah lol

[empty bloom]

Guh. Forgor to respond.

It's neat. I like it, because it offers a lot of extra cosmetic options.

[versed helm]

A lot of things have that

Look at the nanosuit from crysis

I want skinny looking halo 4 armor

Like the fireteam majestic, chief, or palmer armor

[empty bloom]

I... I literally mention that later, lmao

It's really noticeable in Chimera's abs

[versed helm]

It looks closest to nanosuit to me out of those things

Idk why I can't use it's coating on other cores thk

It's default coating

[exotic pulsar]

The Mantis is down right puny compared to the Battlemechs in Battlemech/mechwarrior. Unfortunately the UNSC has no need for a 100 ton, 14 to 15 meter tall mech that spews out missiles, lasers and HEAP shells.

[empty bloom]

Wasn't aware the cutoff for Superheavies like the Ares was 100 tons now, not 105+.

[exotic pulsar]

@empty bloom It isn't. I just chose the Atlas as an example because it's one of the more well known mechs. That and superheavy mechs are just impractical to use.

[empty bloom]

I trend towards the old realistic scale heights. 11-12m.

Don't like the goofy concept of 14+ meter assaults.

[exotic pulsar]

If anything the Mantis more of a protomech. The only way the UEG would ever have the resources and the production to make mechs like Battletechs would be if they got all their territory back before the Human-Covenant War.

Though the queston is, why would they ever need weapons platforms that big?

[wispy pewter]

800kg Brutes

[exotic pulsar]

I do want to see a Mantis and Goblin fight though.

[last anchor]

And yet, the Colossus exists

I'm very sure if they COULD get Battlemechs they wouldn't say no of course because that's a lot of armor and guns that would put them on equal footing to Covenant superheavy equipment

[last anchor]

Scarab killing
Heavy weapon carrying.
Metal Gear mobile strike platform

Actually the UNSC might be far more interested in stuff like the SRM and Elemental armor than the mechs themselves

A Scorpion with an AC20 sounds NASTY

[exotic pulsar]

The Colossus is still 11 tons. Battlemechs traditionally go from 20 to 100+ tons.

[last anchor]

That and they'd LOVE the PPC

[last anchor]

Mass wise yeah but it's still a ridiculously large walker

And packs a gauss rifle

...huh. It's an ultralight Hollander isn't it?

[exotic pulsar]

An Atlas would manhandle that.

[last anchor]

Well, yeah
It's an Atlas

[exotic pulsar]

Rip the guass rifle off it's mount and procede to use it as an improv melee weapon.

I still find it funny that Clanners consider getting into the Octagon and engaging mech fu is dishonerable.

It's unclanlike behavior, and unclanlike behavior is punished.

[exotic pulsar]

The Scorpion already has a 90mm smoothbore high velocity cannon that fires a sabot round that has tungstun in it's construction.

[last anchor]

Well the M808 does
The M820 is up to a 120mm electrochemical boosted smooth bore

[exotic pulsar]

If three PPC shots can vaporize nearly two tons of standard military-grade armor. Which is a double top layer of hardened steel and a "ceramic, cubic boron nitride", titanium alloy backing and polymer sealant you can imagine what it can do to Titanium A plating.

[last anchor]

And infinite ammo so long as the power supply and heat sinks hold our

Out

[exotic pulsar]

Indeed, but there is also that minimum range to be worred about unless they are using extended range.

[versed helm]

Did no elite question anything? Murdering billions of civilians by burning them alive is not honorable.

And even after the war did any of them regret anything?

[obsidian thistle]

I am fond of this thing

https://www.halopedia.org/HRUNTING/YGGDRASIL_Mark_II_(D)_Geyrion

A mega-Mantis of sorts aha

[patent patio]

If only we ever got to use this beauty in the campaign

Like imagine if the next game has use this mech and we fight like a mechanized bigger version of the grunt goblin too

[carmine sleet]

Problem with the Mega-Mantis is that it's significantly bigger than every vehicle we've used in the FPS games. Like sure we have gotten campaign exclusive vehicles in the Sabre, Broadsword and Pelican (Not counting when those were added into Forge in MCC), but those are still smaller than the Mega-Mantis

Like, it definitely would be cool to use but this thing isn't exactly gonna fit in as well compared to other useable vehicles

[patent patio]

The least I could ask for ig is just normal mantis fight vs grunt goblin

[carmine sleet]

I'd be down for that

I imagine the Goblin's health would be toned down from Halo 5's boss Goblins if it appeared in a mainline game again

Since the Warzone bosses were balanced around the idea that at least eight people would be trying to kill them, and thus they had such high health

[versed helm]

How do visorless helmets work in lore

Like the locus

[orchid kettle]

There's likely just a camera on the exterior the character looks through

[versed helm]

Isn't that very inefficient tho

What advantages does it have over having a visor

[orchid kettle]

Probably something something special 26th century technology

[unique rune]

The visor is supposedly a weak point of the helmet so for some applications it's probably better to just not have the exposed visor

[versed helm]

And then there is EVA

[orchid kettle]

apparently for Locus specifically the deal is that you have multiple feeds up at once

I guess for when you wanna have netflix in a window to the side

[carmine sleet]

Sometimes fighting Covies and/or a bunch of sim troopers gets boring

[versed helm]

Family guy funny moments compilation while punching a brute

[high elbow]

I think I used this in AC6 at one point lol

[teal forum]

https://youtu.be/K4QkVv6aqOs?si=P13AC3M1woP4fniR

[empty bloom]

It is less that 'mech fu' is dishonorable and more 'You must be one pathetically desperate dude to resort to that'.

Surely, if you were a truly skilled pilot, you would not need to resort to attempting to use your mech's mass to fight.

Same reason why Clanners likely don't give reloads for positioning trials.

Surely it speaks to your lack of skill if you cannot complete this trial with the ammunition allotted, quiaff?

[empty bloom]

Some did.

[empty bloom]

The 'visor' on MJOLNIR is effectively a multifaceted display system; MJOLNIR helmets tend to use a wide variety of visual and nonvisual spectrum sensors to create a visual simulacrum of the outside world, and with many MJOLNIR helmets the visor is not actually something the Spartan inside truly 'sees' through. Some even have internal faceplating that would obscure the outside world completely if needed.

MJOLNIR is fully capable of image sanitization (IE, removing the visual stimuli of blood and gore or highlighting objects and materials of note) in real-time. Making armored sensor housings that are practically seamless and only 'look' like a visor is relatively trivial, especially considering there would be no effective 'lag' that makes the current IRL concept of a visorless armored helmet unappealing.

[last anchor]

The neural interface allows the Spartan to use the suits sensors as if they were their own sensory organs too

[versed helm]

One question, why was the idea that the Forerunners were originally ancient humans discarded? I'm curious.

[wispy pewter]

because the devs decided to ig

[last anchor]

Because now we have two awesome ancient races that had a wicked cool War in Heaven equivalent

Makes it more interesting and set up the Precursors as even deeper roots to all living species

Gave us the Lord of Admirals, the baller himself

[stoic hamlet]

I’d say the Precursor-Forerunner war is the WiH equivalent but yeah.

[empty bloom]

Because it was lame.

[last anchor]

No your totally right

[orchid kettle]

My beef with Ancient Humanity is that they don't have anything going on besides being the one-time enemies of the Forerunners

but otherwise there's no like, culture or even really commentary on the actual human race

Meanwhile the forerunners at least had the whole thing about being obsessed with genetic augmentation, super suits, and AI in those super suits which current humanity has inherited

Even the San Shyuum have the idea that they were once cool and hot but now they're gross and old.

But for AH-- are they a past glory we have tragically fallen from? A black stain on human history we must be careful to avoid becoming?

The series can barely decide which one of those the Forerunners were, and so by extension, AH feels super hollow

And even if they are the former or the latter-- why?

[wispy pewter]

Lord of Admirals is such a based name

[orchid kettle]

Also Ancient Humanity is really hard to reconcile with the idea that Halo is supposed to be our world to some extent, since this lineage being a mystery kinda relies on fossils just not existing on Halo Earth

[wispy pewter]

the fact that eggheads are still discovering new human species

[orchid kettle]

For some reason its also supposed to be a mystery to the Forerunners if Earth is even the human homeworld, despite humans sharing 90% of their dna with pigs and dolphins

which certainly suggests that in reality, we evolved on Earth.

[wispy pewter]

wasn't there forerunner artifacts on earth in Halo

[carmine sleet]

Yes but that doesn't change what Alpha is saying

[orchid kettle]

to be fair, this was always going to be messy, with perhaps the most viable idea being that Forerunners were just ancient aliens that influenced existing Earth life into becoming Forerunner-like

It just feels like the Greg Bear/343 explanation was the messiest option on the table

[carmine sleet]

Aye

Like, I don't think Halo needed an ancient human space empire for Forerunners to have fought against to explain why the Ur-Didact hates humanity

[wispy pewter]

but it's cool so yeah I guess it was needed

[carmine sleet]

Something being cool doesn't mean it was needed

Like, Boba Fett looks cool, but he was not a needed character in Empire Strikes back

[orchid kettle]

I mean, it turns out that the Didact was just full of Gravemind stank anyway, any pre-existing feelings he had about humanity doesn't seem to be wholly necessary

[carmine sleet]

Fair point

[orchid kettle]

His hatred always felt kinda underwhelming anyway, since they've never bothered to even name the kids that died or go more into his relationship with them and role in their development

and also like-- they were warriors who fought and died in war, as was their purpose in Forerunner society

not like, babies ruthlessly murdered by humans in the dead of night while they slept

You know, at least Hekabe from Envoy was mad about dead babies

Which perhaps ties into my bigger disappointment with the Forerunner Trilogy as a whole, where it's presented as like witnessing the fall of Olympus through the eyes of Zeus, Hera, and all the rest.

but then it doesn't feel like their downfall is as related to any tragic flaw as it could have been

considering how the war on the Precursors doesn't have anything to do with the Master Builder, Librarian, or either Didacts

and that's supposed to be the "original sin"

[glacial coral]

I'm rereading the novels in release order and discovered time was an element even Forerunners controlled to an extent. So it's not time "travel" but time "manipulation". The Holy Light from First Strike.

[runic wharf]

Do the Halo 3 Co-Op Elites have lore behind them or are they just there to be there

[hot zodiac]

https://web.archive.org/web/20071224131957/http://www.bungie.net/news/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=thesoundofsack

[versed helm]

There are the arbiter’s friends

And human sympathizers

[last anchor]

They show up in Outcasts and prominently in Hunters in the Dark

[obsidian thistle]

The unofficial "Swords of Sanghelios and Humanity" duology.

I get why it wasnt made a series but its easy to discuss as one

[lime heath]

I'm really hoping any future game installment can reintroduce the swords of Sanghelios since they've been writing so much about them and their conflict with the banished

[carmine sleet]

I want the SoS to be the ones that got the cooridnates sent out at the end of Rubicon Protocol so badly for that specific reason

Like, Arbiter's too busy being the leader of his people on Sanghelios to go help out personally, but they could easily send one of the many Elites he trusts to help out at Zeta

[drowsy mesa]

Or a game fully focused on the SoS fighting against the Banished on Suban

[stoic hamlet]

I’m really glad for what Outcasts did for them/the Sangheili as a whole.

Making them not even the united force, and still vying for power in the home planet and other systems.

[glacial coral]

I'm sure I'll get some flak for this, but I'm hoping eventually that even if it's a minor faction, that some Jiralhanae would like to fight alongside UNSC and SoS.

[carmine sleet]

Well the Brutes are like humans and Elites in that they are individuals capable of their own thoughts. It's not impossible for there to be some that are sympathetic towards the UNSC and SoS

[empty bloom]

Or even just unsympathetic to the Banished for one reason or another and going full mercenary for the UNSC

[carmine sleet]

Aye, which is the more likely case

At the very least, it'd be interesting to explore a Brute who is ultimately just there for a paycheck from ONI or whoever hired them

Maybe they could be a grizzled war veteran who thought it was odd the Elites were being replaced by the Brutes as the main leadership within the Covenant because he felt that their species hadn't earned that right due to how recent they'd joined the Covenant

[empty bloom]

IIRC the Swords would have some Brutes in their ranks. Even the early post war skirmishes had brutes on every side but the UNSC's.

[empty bloom]

Or a youngblood who thinks he's hot stuff and trying to pull a takeover of some warband by trying to use ONI.

There are already some abnormal brutes in the Banished. The Gray Guard comes to mind.

[carmine sleet]

Oh that would be fun

[empty bloom]

A company-sized force of all-gray armored Brutes, all kitted out with jump packs, shock weapons, and gravity maces.

One of the coolest unit ideas ever, but it's stuck in Shadows of Reach lmao

[carmine sleet]

It's ok, maybe one day we'll see them as a proper enemy in a game

[fast heron]

Is there a lore-reason why the sangheili look different in halo 4 and 5?

I always thought that’s what the older sangheili look like

Since the arbiter looks like that too

[carmine sleet]

Different phenotype

And Arbiter looking like that Phenotype in Halo 5 was simply due to not having the resources to give him the proper phenotype he should've been

[wispy pewter]

maybe they can send a fleet of Grunts

[wispy pewter]

from what has been written all space monkeys are evil. While there were human and elite and grunt friendships

[glacial coral]

Fair enough.

[empty bloom]

Nope.

Some are misguided, but they aren't all evil.

[unborn patrol]

just a change in artstyle

[fast heron]

I know, but I just wanted to know if there was a lore reason

[unborn patrol]

nono

arbiter wouldnt have changed too if it was lore

[stoic hamlet]

They are canonically a different phenotype.

[unborn patrol]

what

arbiter just changed in the span of a few years his entire physical structure etc

Ive heard that theory from halo lore videos before but Ive never seen any official statemenets saying that this is the case

[stoic hamlet]

I sadly can’t post the image, but it is noted in the Sangheili trivia on Halopedia, the sources are both links to 343 comments more or less stating as such.

[unborn patrol]

more or less?

Id take nothing but a direct reference for something like this

because to me it being an art style choice is so obvious

[stoic hamlet]

I’ll need to trawl the ancient forums, gimme a moment.

[stoic hamlet]

It is for Thel.

But not like, all Sangheili.

[unborn patrol]

I think if you need to look for it that hard it probably doesnt hold water. like this should literally be somewhere in the lore

[stoic hamlet]

Well, no. It’s an artstyle choice, but both styles coexist.

[unborn patrol]

where?

[stoic hamlet]

It’s not hard to find. The source is just buried.

[unborn patrol]

lmao

[stoic hamlet]

20+ years of a franchise will do that.

[unborn patrol]

yeah but this isnt 20 years deep

[stoic hamlet]

It’s almost 10

[unborn patrol]

yeah so like not even that difficult to track down if it actually holds any water

[unique rune]

I don’t see why this is even worth arguing

It reads like you’re arguing just for the sake of it

[unborn patrol]

and like the statement of a single 343 employee on the matter isnt relevant. one guy doesnt make that choice

[stoic hamlet]

But here’s one for you, from Jeff Easterling, on the old Waypoint forums:

It is canon that they can look like that. Because of all sorts of limitations, you are almost never seeing the whole picture of the "full" diversity of the universe when you are playing a game, watching cinematics, animation, etc. It's merely a slice of what is possible, amidst varying interpretations. If you were to imagine Thel's (not Theo's 😉 ) forces in "real life", you would undoubtedly see Sangheili of varying looks, shapes, and sizes, wearing different types of armors. Just because you only see a narrow selection within a single medium, doesn't mean that the other options are necessarily replaced or overwritten.

Link is here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20191209012646/https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/db05ce78845f4120b062c50816008e5d/topics/why-the-heck-are-thel-s-covenant-wearing-h4-armor/662e9ed3-828e-448b-bd79-d6cf2c9bab06/posts?page=5

[unborn patrol]

I doubt we will ever see that "phenotype" with the current one thats in infinite

[stoic hamlet]

Jeff Easterling is a high-up employee on the lore team. Objectively speaking if he comes out and says John sleeps with a teddy bear, for all intents and purposes we take that as fact. Assuming it’s clear he’s not joking.

[unborn patrol]

and yes obviously there is variety, not saying there isnt. I just dont think theres a "variety" happening when going from halo 3 to halo 4, rather just art style. and its being for whatever reason explained away with phenotype thing which isnt even remotely a good choice

[stoic hamlet]

Absurd example, but you know.

[wispy pewter]

Rhodey in Iron Man 2 was a diffrent phenotype

[unborn patrol]

lmaoo

exactly

[stoic hamlet]

Another quote on the situation:

It's important to understand that things aren't really black and white in situations like these. There are times (many times) where visual differences have canon explanations built into them to enrich the universe overall. The different variations of Sangheili are one such example. The way that you see them depicted in H2A, H3, Reach, HW, H4, etc are all representations of how an elite can look in the universe. There will be times however, when limitations dictate the need to be more efficient with the use of assets, and something you see in a game might not necessarily represent the definitive canonical look for that thing/species/character etc 100%.
It makes for a much more relaxing and fulfilling overall experience if one is able to relax the rigid constraints we sometimes try to fit everything into. And trust me, no one is more conscious or concerned with creating and codifying "definitive" understandings of all the various elements in the Halo universe more than me lol. 😉 It is a balancing act though. It's a case by case basis. While in a perfect world, it would be awesome to have every character represented individually, and have all phenotypes of a species represented within a single game, the reality is that there is a hidden - but very real - "cost" to doing so.
Hopefully fans are able to take in and appreciate the richness of the Universe both because of, and in spite of, times where something might not "look just right."

From this archived forum post:

https://web.archive.org/web/20181021053627/https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/6e35355aecdf4fd0acdaee3cc4156fd4/topics/halo-5-sangheili/c73aceae-7ae4-4b4c-b419-0dffcffd0350/posts?page=1

Confirmed its phenotypes, right there.

[wispy pewter]

and this is why books are superior

[hot zodiac]

https://web.archive.org/web/20141013192624/https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_postsm2994218_Catalog-Interaction.aspx#post2994218

Query: Are the Hesduros Sangheili a different subspecies to that of the natives of Sanghelios? Considering the marked differences in appeareance

Query Answer: [macto cognatus] display a range of phenotypic variation. Human [Lifeworker] [population genetics] analysis does not indicate evidence of reproductive isolation in extant colonies or anomalous genetic structure within populations.

But you're 100% correct that this was originally meant to just be "artstyle." Comic and concept art for Thel have him as the new phenotype.

[stoic hamlet]

Ah, I forgot to check catalog.

But yeah.

It’s artstyle made canon.

[unique rune]

As Halo does

very frequently

[stoic hamlet]

I like it, usually…. Sometimes.

Not for SPI though.

Or MJOLNIR, in many cases. But if it’s done well I don’t mind it.

[obsidian thistle]

Sooo this took so much digging. AND please hold this with salt as the og source is dead but...

In regards to Thel changing designs in Halo 5. Well canonically he looks the way he does in Halo 2: Anniversary.

More I guess it was a source saying that H2A Thel was chosen cause Jeff preferred it.

But hey

Thank Discord for preserving Thumbnails

(Sans images)

Said Waypoint article in question

https://web.archive.org/web/20150704140510/https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/universe/characters/arbiter-thel-vadam

So its case by case honestly

[obsidian thistle]

And yes this was hard to find for Thel at least lol

[lime isle]

Can gorilla's, humans, monkeys or apes breed with brutes?

[glacial coral]

I don't think any species would survive the snu snu. Not even elites.

[unique rune]

No one's tried it yet but I'm gonna go with no because Jiralhanae are supposed to be more biologically similar to bears than they are apes or other primates.

This is also ignoring the millions of years of completely separated speciation that occurred between Earth animals and Doisac animals.

There's a bunch of fairly closely related contemporary Earth animal species that are incapable of interbreeding due to a number of factors (just look into ring species for some fun examples), there's no way anything that's been separated by entire solar systems of distance for millions of years under different selective pressure would be able to.

[unborn patrol]

not to mention that their bipedalism is the result of convergent evolution. theres no gene inheritance of any kind that would be required to even consider the possibility

[empty bloom]

That is not how biology works.

[lime isle]

If brutes can lead, they can breed.

[empty bloom]

Don't be a creep. You're being a creep.

[lime isle]

mb

brutes are kinda hot though ngl

[empty bloom]

None of us here need to know that.

[lime isle]

Its just context

[last anchor]

They burn rather nicely when exposed to their own incendiary grenades yes
They really should stop being so considerate and arming the Stalkers they're sending to get mulched by Chief with multiple of them, they'd probably have kept some more of their chieftains alive that way

Like that honorable dude who will go one on one with you.

I always just cooked him then mulched his buddies

[lyric tendon]

What if reach never fell?

[keen geyser]

Humanity would be sigma

[winter wigeon]

What if they fought back on reach for a long time like they did on harvest but then lose it

[carmine sleet]

The Covenant invasion of Harvest had a smaller force than what was was used to invade Reach

[winter wigeon]

“It’s just a theory” as Matt patt would say

I was just saying for the fun of it what if (in the most unlikely scenario) they held back the covenant on reach like harvest

[unique rune]

I mean, nothing would really change except humanity has even less resources at their disposal for the remainder of the war.

[winter wigeon]

Makes sense

[keen geyser]

The Great Schism would still destroy the Covenant

But the Humans would probably lose a lot of resources trying to defend Reach

[exotic pulsar]

They were lucky to hold Reach for a month with the size of the fleet that attacked it.

The fleet used to take Reach was twice the size of the one they used for Earth.

[versed helm]

What is noble six survived

?

[wispy pewter]

it would be out of reach for the covenant then

[stoic hamlet]

He died. There’s no surviving that.

[steel stone]

I have a question what the heck is going on with Reach?

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/halo/images/5/5c/DMP_-_Condemned.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110217184335

Ive looked at this for ages and still trying to figure out what is going I know its glassing

I wanna know are those lava lakes? the planet is starting look like the sun which is awesome but scary as hell what do you think?