lore-and-universe

[bronze prawn]

why humanity forgot about IFVs, APCs and all those kinds of military vehicles by the 26th century

the only things that are left are scorpion tanks and warthogs

that are pretty much less protected humvees

[empty bloom]

They didn't.

[bronze prawn]

let me guess " they just dont appear in gameplay "

[unborn patrol]

Cant make every vehicle known to man

[empty bloom]

The Cougar, Bison, and Mastodon are the APCs and IFVs of Halo. The Bison and Mastodon were useable in HW2.

[bronze prawn]

Pretty

is that an autocannon

[empty bloom]

The Wolverine and Scorpion "Sun Devil" variant are also known UNSC AA.

[wispy pewter]

If the UNSC develops energy weapons it should be green

[dusk jetty]

Mulsanne frigate too

The hill around all of them is green

[carmine sleet]

Pretty sure we've been over this before but humanity in Halo still uses things like traditional ballistics for their weapons because they're still useful. Railgun Scorpions aren't a common thing because they're not easily manufactured on a large scale at a cost that makes it worth making

[stoic hamlet]

Also the Hannibal Scorpion.

[astral pine]

That and most of them are still in testing.

Even if there's like a few out there on deployment, they're most likely prototypes.

[carmine sleet]

Aye. Sure we see more portable railgun-like weapons in the post war (I know it's actually a coil-gun in Halo 4 but still) as well as more human built energy weapons, like the aforementioned Hannibal Scorpion and Mulsanne frigates, but those aren't extremely common

[wispy pewter]

Gauss warthog exists ig

[astral pine]

Yep. The Gauss system exists, but it was still in the category of ballistics, until later on when new energy-based variants showed up

If we're talking Bungie Gauss, it had SABOT rounds fitted into a rotating drum magazine. The barrel, which was a mini magnetic accelerator barrel below the power level of a MAC, sends the round at a shocking and, both in-game and in-lore, almost instantaneous explosive shot. It was originally used against Insurrection rebels on different platforms, like the M99A2S3 Stanchion (Basically the Gauss Sniper Rifle). Later on during the Covenant War, it was incredibly, surprising at first, highly effective against the Covenant's vehicles and heavy armor.

If we're talking 343's take on Gauss systems, that's a very complex deep dive

[carmine sleet]

Stanchion my beloved

[astral pine]

God, I love that gun

[carmine sleet]

And yeah, if I recall, Halo 5's Gauss Cannon is pretty different to previous versions in how it functions

[astral pine]

Yeah. It looked like it was more energy based. No drum magazine. No shells exiting the chamber upon firing

It was definitely more energy based in terms of design

But for some odd reason, in-game, they had the HUD display several SABOT rounds when you detach the weapon from its tripod

[wispy pewter]

The Mulsanne frigate firing it's energy weapon is so cool

[unique rune]

It's canonically still a projectile weapon, just uses different propulsion than the older model.

[carmine sleet]

Reading up on the M70 via Halopedia, I'd assume that these changes are likely something that makes it more efficient in operating than the previous models

So while it doesn't have any noticeable increase in the damage output (Talking strictly from the lore side of things), that's not necessarily a bad thing as it's just more efficient at doing the same job

[sonic lagoon]

Even the machine guns on aircraft?

[wispy pewter]

War Thunder tells me a warthogs 20mm cannon can penetrate the top of an Abrams

[astral pine]

Thanks for that.

[empty bloom]

30mm.

[empty bloom]

I mean, a .50 cal ain't gonna do much to an MBT.

[dusk jetty]

It could also just ricochet off too

[wispy pewter]

im gonna assume they have AP rounds in 2560

idk the armor values of a scorpion though, maybe it will penetrate a covie tank if you shoot it long enough

pew pew pew pew

😵

[dusk jetty]

What I find cool is that most SRS99’s are just denels aimed towards aliens instead of the usual military equipment

[ripe patio]

The first major usage of tanks was WWI. Its main use was that it was impervious to the otherwise oppressive machine-gun turrets, and could get troops across the badlands between trenches.
Machinegun is an antiquated term. We have all sorts of fully automatic weapons now, from smgs, to assault rifles, to Light Machine Guns, to Heavy Machine Guns, to auto cannons.

Tank armor is/was primarily designed to survive direct hits from other tanks main guns (or at least attempt to)

[dusk jetty]

2552 and we’re still using rifles from the 90’s and they work just fine

[carmine sleet]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it

[dusk jetty]

Ah, human ingenuity

[sonic lagoon]

Yeah but that can vary though. Sometimes they tinker off, sometimes they penetrate, at least in regard to real world physics.

[empty bloom]

AP isn't a panacea to defeating all armor ever.

I suppose one thing the scorp has going for its ridiculous mass is that the majority of what hits it is just hitting empty space and plating.

Too bad the driver hatch didn't get the memo.

[sonic lagoon]

What is the thinnest part of a scorpion? Since all tanks have different thicknesses and weaknesses depending on where shot at. I remember a WW2 information video even showing how specific parts of tank like the eye slits can be shot out, though of course than probably changed after too.

[empty bloom]

The driver's hatch.

[ripe patio]

Modern tanks are profoundly more durable than WW2 era tanks

[empty bloom]

On the Reach incarnation it was the windows, specifically.

Also, the above-most vulnerable parts of modern tanks are sensory equipment, but you're unlikely to injure the crew through those locations. It's why modern munitions focus on just broadly defeating the armor in whole, such as Javelins.

[sonic lagoon]

I can’t remember the windows. Were they one the drivers hatch or elsewhere? I always remember the engine being weak as well. So what would be the most thick part of the tank compared to the thinner parts, on the real world bases of tank thicknesses?

[carmine sleet]

They are on the drivers hatch

[empty bloom]

This is Halo 4, but it's basically the same model.

As for the engine being weak, that's partially because the Scorp's engine hatch is badly designed.

[carmine sleet]

In gameplay, the windows aren't a weakpoint but if we had a real life Scorpion, those windows are an easy way of disabling a tank

[empty bloom]

Infinite also uses the Reach Scorpion.

[sonic lagoon]

Oh yeah, are the lights on the tanks weak points as well? I remember that was something in WW2 that could be shot out.

[empty bloom]

I mean, you're not going to do more than mildly inconvenience the crew, but in a sense, sure.

The M820's driver hatch is more recessed with far smaller windows, making its hull the more defensively designed of the two.

[sonic lagoon]

Well yeah, but it makes it harder for the crew to see, hence why US infantrymen in WW2 were advised to do so.

[empty bloom]

Good for WW2 infantry. Modern MBTs have night vision.

[carmine sleet]

Not gonna lie, I kinda wish they reused this Scorpion for Infinite

[empty bloom]

It's literally a better designed tank.

[carmine sleet]

It is!!

[empty bloom]

It's also the only Scorpion to have a seat for a main gunner that actually makes physical sense.

(The hatch is in line with the coaxial and top gunner's sight)

[sonic lagoon]

Does the Halo 5 scorpion have a biggest cannon?

[empty bloom]

150mm, so yeah

Though the issues of a 90mm gun are kinda overstated. We don't know if anything's changed in Halo's propellants; That 90mm could be hitting a lot harder than modern equivelants.

Or, they focused on ammo economy over raw firepower.

[sonic lagoon]

So are the other versions inferior in every way or are there some advantage to the older model?

[empty bloom]

Well, the gun was considered an improvement in-universe.

The 90mm would mostly benefit from having lighter, and more, ammo; At least, hypothetically.

[ripe patio]

Halo vehicles are mostly balanced around gameplay. There's no reason your driver compartment would be placed in such a weak spot lol

[sonic lagoon]

Yeah, CE and 2 did it more realistically or at least more well thought out. Likely changed for gameplay in Multiplayer.

[carmine sleet]

CE and 2's Scorpion's weren't more well thought out

[empty bloom]

Did... What, more realistically?

[carmine sleet]

Like, CE's doesn't even have windows, that's a cage to protect you from bullets

And then in Halo 2, sure it has no windows but it's basically the CE Scorpion in terms of design still

It's just a better 3D model

[dusk jetty]

3 is the same as 2 for the most part, just some tacked on extra treads and armor

[carmine sleet]

Aye, its hatch is basically just the one seen in Halo 2 and while it is considered a different model in universe, it is basically just the same in regards to design though with added gunner seat

And different position for lights on the front

[carmine sleet]

In other news, new Canon Fodder http://aka.ms/CanonFodder158

[astral pine]

I was dancing when they teased the Blightlands in Unreal Engine 5

[ripe patio]

I was dancing when they added the Flood pallet in Infiniforge

[fair hazel]

Cool to see a writeup on the jannissaries

[astral pine]

That too.

Basically, I dance for any and all Flood content

[empty bloom]

@stoic hamlet

[stoic hamlet]

So I see!

[empty bloom]

Figured you'd enjoy getting better clarification on Janissaries.

[stoic hamlet]

I don’t like that it’s a catch all term.

It feels weirdly out of place.

If there’s one group you’d want to specify between, it’d be other soldier soldiers.

[sonic lagoon]

More rational to have the machine gun on top with the cannon rather than have a vulnerable gunner open to even small arms fire. At least in 2, as hatch was open in CE.

[unique rune]

The coaxial gun is present on the M820, it's just not usable in gameplay.

[sonic lagoon]

Yep.

[ripe patio]

Halo vehicles are the way they are for Rule of Cool and Gameplay, not realism. None of the Halo vehicles make sense for an IRL vehicle, pretty much even today, let alone 500 years in the future

[sonic lagoon]

Also do any small arms that shoot plasma, or hard light damage vehicles?

[ripe patio]

except maybe the pelican

Covenant Plasma, IRL, would boil away any modern material

[empty bloom]

People really overestimate the lethality of Halo plasma.

And really underestimate just how heat-durable modern materials can get.

[carmine sleet]

I just know it's better than Star Wars plasma

Never thought about how our modern day militaries would handle things if the Covenant showed up tomorrow

[fair hazel]

from what i see people underestimate plasma, not over, usuall

[sonic lagoon]

How so? Does it do more damage or penetrate armor? I just genuinely curious, I only learned Star Wars blasters and lightsabers fired encased plasma instead of actually shooting or holding lasers, only certain cannons in universe do. It made me feel like my whole life was a lie lol.

[ripe patio]

It is tricky. Heat is very frequently misunderstood. Temperature itself doesn't actually matter that much, it is thermal energy that does, how much of that thermal energy can transfer, and how quickly. Experimental fusion reactors are getting up to 100 Million degrees, but it is absolutely tiny amounts of mass in a near vacuum.
Space is "cold" despite most of the atoms flying around you at thousands of degrees

in universe, the covenant plasma is able to quickly melt through steel and concrete

[spark pivot]

poorly

[ripe patio]

modern militaries would annihilate covenant ground and aircraft, but we'd get boiled by their spaceships.

the wraith mortar tanks are hilariously bad compared to even, like, ww2 artillery

Banshees are agile, sure, but so are our missiles

[empty bloom]

Old canon had it instakill on a near miss, current establishment is that it sucks to get hit by it, but if it hits you in the plates you'll likely just have some second degree burns at worst.

The out-of-date assumption is that the former is always the norm even if it hits plates.

[stoic hamlet]

No the books go into Wraith mortars, they’re a lot more dangerous than the games or other visual media depict.

They have a longer range and travel faster than in game, with a much larger, more destructive blast radius.

[dusk jetty]

Lightsabers are not encased, technically. They are magnetically held in place by the hilt

Blasters fire ignited gas that becomes plasma after exiting the barrel and depending on the model, dissipates after a given distance

[spark pivot]

Banshee's are much, much faster than shown ingame, ad in the amounts they're deployed in, would simply overwhelm the missiles, besides literally every bullet they fire being a flare in itself

[spark pivot]

Doubtful on both sides, we wouldnt be prepared to deal with energy shielding, which a few covenant vehicles seem to have, let alone ground troops

Let alone their weaponry being able to make our vehicles puddles

[wispy pewter]

have you seen that video where the F-15 fights a banshee

https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/1ex4rho/us_military_versus_a_banshee/

it doesn't even seem that the banshee has any counter to BVR missiles

[spark pivot]

idk what bvr is, and tbh i dont find that really suprising, as up until the covenant ran into humanity, i dont believe any other species (besides perhaps jackals/sangeheili) had anything resembling a human style air force, where we have air to air engagements

[empty bloom]

Beyond Visual Range

Also known as OTH Over The Horizon

[spark pivot]

ah, well yeah, afaik they dont have counters to that, besides "flares" in the form of plasma bolts from the guns (like the way i used missiles from my F4U cosair to dodge AIM-9's from a A-10), they have no means to dodge missiles besides pure speed, which im sure they can pull off, although idk how it would go with radar since idk how they work

[wispy pewter]

Banshees? easy picking. Seraphs and those shielded ones? nope

[spark pivot]

there are shielded banshees, which i can see being taken out by things like 20mm relatively easily

the problem is the actual armor of the covenant ships

which we dont really know a lot about

[fair hazel]

Armour plates can handle a bit. But without it, your limbs may be blown off, or holes

[spark pivot]

see the halo tv show for what plasma can do to an unarmored person

[fair hazel]

as uncanon as it is, that's a fairly accurate depiction

[bronze prawn]

What is the closest thing in halo to the interdictor class of star wars

I havent seen any faction using that kind of technique, only the flood messing up with the slispace at the end of the forerruner-flood war

[dusk jetty]

In terms of gravity manipulation, nothing really fills that role

Only the flood and precursors have ever really come close as far as I know

[tropic forge]

The stasis tension driver on the Mantle's Approach.

[wide dove]

Perhaps this isn't the correct place for questions like this but I was wondering if anyone had any screenshots of the New Mombasa Waste Management logo from ODST. I believe they appear on rubbish bins in the game.

[astral pine]

Honestly, you could ask anywhere and someone can direct ya to the right channel. Also, I have no clue where the logo is seen in ODST.

[sonic lagoon]

What are the first two?

[sonic lagoon]

Yeah, still getting used to calling them plasma. I thought they were lasers for so long.

[scarlet quiver]

https://www.halopedia.org/New_Mombasa_Waste_Management

and scroll down to gallery.

[blazing canopy]

Ok I'm curious about something
what could we say is the extent at how far the Flood could spread and adapt?

[carmine sleet]

They almost took over the galaxy

And they can convert ecosystems on planets to be more suitable for them

[blazing canopy]

I'm aware of that
I'm saying like how far could they have gone involving spreading their infestation if the Halo array wasn't fired

[carmine sleet]

Whole galaxy consumed, converted to serve the Flood

That's why the Halos were used, because the other option is worse than death

[blazing canopy]

yeah but there is also the Transgalactic stage of the Flood
Which basically means that they have consumed entire galaxies, so now it's time to go find another galaxy to infect

[wispy pewter]

what's next? multiverse?

[blazing canopy]

that's what I'm saying bro

[carmine sleet]

I doubt we'll see a multiversal Flood threat

[blazing canopy]

well yeah cause that's something that takes WAY too long to actually achieve

[ripe patio]

Do we have good numbers for how long intergalactic travel would be ?

I guess so, since the Ark is beyond the galactic rim

[blazing canopy]

true

[ripe patio]

plus the Flood's ability to hibernate for at least 100k years and still revive, safe to say they could just... keep going?

[dusk jetty]

Lasers is still technically correct tbh, bolts too

Like, turboLASER, heavy LASER cannon

[blazing canopy]

yeah
scary
nothing is spared from the grasp of the Flood

[wispy pewter]

Forerunnrer stuff can exit the milky way quickly

[carmine sleet]

That doesn't mean the journey is a short one

Andromeda is still an extremely long distance away from us

[ripe patio]

Given that the Flood is quite intelligent, it would make sense that they made numerous backup plans.

If you have a bunch of ships full of biomass, why not send a few out of the Galaxy? Why not send a few on huge looping paths so that they'll return to this Galaxy after a million years?

[carmine sleet]

The last thing the series needs is a secret Flood fleet waiting outside the galaxy

[blazing canopy]

true
or to consume every other galaxy besides the milky way
basically giving us a sorta dead space situation

[ripe patio]

not just waiting... actively returning.

[wispy pewter]

according to Nasa the closest galaxy to our sun is 25k lightyears and Adromeda is bloody 2.5 million lightyears away 🤪

bruh the scale

[unique rune]

the real Flood was the friends we made along the way

[blazing canopy]

lol yes
I would love for the Flood to return
And I would love for it to be like an epic finale

[ripe patio]

our galaxy is around 100k light years wide

[blazing canopy]

indeed

[ripe patio]

the closest STAR to our sun is around 4 light years

[carmine sleet]

The point is that having there be a twist of "Oh the Flood had this other fleet just out there" is dumb. If there was this fleet out there, why did Gravemind not tell it to come help with the Ark?

[ripe patio]

many of the colonized stars in the Halo universe are around 10-20 light years away

[carmine sleet]

I don't wanna be friends with the space zombies

[blazing canopy]

I do

[ripe patio]

If it is a contingency plan from a pre-array firing infestation, Gravemind might now know / be able to control it.
If it is on a 1 million year round trip, can't call it back that easy

[unique rune]

I think their whole deal is that you don't really have a choice, actually

[blazing canopy]

look at my pfp for crying out loud

[wispy pewter]

Yeah Alpha Centauri doesn't exist in Halo for some reason

[ripe patio]

not saying that they SHOULD do it, but in-universe it would make sense for the flood to ensure their own survival by dispersing

[blazing canopy]

yeah pretty much

[blazing canopy]

true

[carmine sleet]

And my choice is to not be a space zombie

[wispy pewter]

should be fighting the flood by sending 4 man teams with limited orbital support

[blazing canopy]

Oh to add to that
logic plague
AKA Flood gaslighting

[blazing canopy]

Helldivers?

[blazing canopy]

aw man

[wispy pewter]

Yeah but replace diver with jumper

[blazing canopy]

YEAH
but we know ODSTs wouldn't survive long
lore wise

[wispy pewter]

It's okay they are replacable. Just send in another pod

[blazing canopy]

lmao

[blazing canopy]

Halo 3 ODST Firefight on Halo MCC

[wispy pewter]

absolutely criminal this server doesn't have an ODST sticker

[blazing canopy]

They don't have flood emojis or stickers either to my knowledge

[carmine sleet]

You know that they don't just strap on the ODST gear to anyone and shove them in a pod, right? Like they are so far away from what a Helldiver is

ODSTs are highly skilled, they're sent on the missions they go on because they're good at what they do, not because they want to throw as many people at something as command can

The Covenant are the ones that deploy barely trained soldiers as canon fodder, because that's what most Grunts were in their military

[stoic hamlet]

Also, they don’t just send single squads. ODST’s deploy at the battalion level in 99% of operations we are.

The only times they don’t is (shocking, I know) in the games.

[carmine sleet]

There's also The Babysitter from Halo Legends but that operation necessitated a small team opposed to a whole battalion

[wispy pewter]

Rip to those ODSTs who weren't in that Stealth condor with Vale

[stoic hamlet]

95% then, lol

[carmine sleet]

I think the percentage is likely still 99%

[orchid kettle]

There is kinda this oddity with this idea that the ODSTs are "the best of the best", but there's also seemingly a ton of them

[carmine sleet]

That's why I didn't say best of the best, I said they were good at what they do

[orchid kettle]

and in direct contrast to the old bungie article about how ODSTs are all veterans of other special forces units-- in Dirt, it seems like all you need is a couple of years under your belt and anyone can try out

[ripe patio]

the gooder of the good

[icy pulsar]

mhm

[blazing canopy]

Either way
ODSTs are not gonna be able to survive on a flood infested planet for very long

[desert nimbus]

Mostly, but hey stolt beat a spartan A GRUNT beat a spartan. Exceptions for everything

[high elbow]

To be fair, very few things could

[sonic lagoon]

Yeah but the handheld weapons in Star Wars are still plasma based. I used to occasionally refer to lightsabers as laser swords, which isn’t correct. I need to double check on if any other blades count as that. That’s the main one though, light saber, the name made me always think it was made of light akin to that of a laser, making it a laser sword.

[dusk jetty]

They are indeed plasma based, so you’re correct in that department

[sonic lagoon]

The energy based weapons in the terminator franchise are also plasma based, while the projectiles are still made to look like lasers, even though they are plasma based. Stan Winston referred to them while talking about the special effects as lasers from a vfx perspective, whereas the in universe info specially lists the rifle as a plasma rifle.

[versed helm]

“Hunting the human Spartans was a task befitting only the greatest and most cunning of champions.
Ultimately, Tovarus found defeat against the greatest of those
Spartans, the Master
Chief." - Halo Encyclopedia 2022

Legitimately one of my favorite guide statements in Halo Lore

[wispy pewter]

The goat

[stoic hamlet]

I still don’t like the Chief hype. It’s always a weird aspect the series seems to grapple with.

[sonic lagoon]

Is the Halo Reach marine helmet inspired by the US Advanced Combat Helmet? I also find it hard to say whether the older marine helmets more so resemble PASGT helmets, M1 helmets, SSH Soviet helmets, Greek WW2 Helmets or just other helmets in general as it is an generalization of helmets meant for the future.

[wispy pewter]

Helmet is helmet

[patent patio]

Wdym?

How Chief is like a fan favorite of the community?

[stoic hamlet]

More the in universe thing, really.

It’s out of universe bleeding into the universe and it feels wrong.

[patent patio]

Well considering Chief's feats, you gotta give him some round of applause atleast

[empty bloom]

I don't really think that the helmets have, historically, been based on any specific real world helmet; They most closely resemble, to me, something akin to a Crye Airframe helmet or a gentex CVC Helmet, or some hybrid theorof.

Given Halo's extreme emphasis on following the Land/Future Warrior programs to their natural conclusion when it comes to troops (Real World inspirations, coincidentally, being why Halo 4/5 Armor looks the way it does, not counting the paint), I don't think it follows PASGTs.

[patent patio]

These halo helmets plasma proof?

[empty bloom]

Yeah, I'd assume so. Plasma is not so much a penetration threat as it is a 'burnthrough' threat, so I imagine it's a lot like the plating being affixed to the vest rigging; Easier to tear off at a moment's notice.

[patent patio]

Isn't Plasma like one of the hottest matters known to man?

[empty bloom]

People dog on Halo 4/5 marines, but their armor borrows heavily from realworld kit.

Hence the Molle.

[patent patio]

I always dogged on them cuz their AI tbh but moving on

[empty bloom]

Halo's plasma is in a weird space where it doesn't really act like real world plasma, but it does have a lot of similar mechanical functions to real world plasma.

From how it acts, it sounds like it's supposed to be a sort of... halfway between hardlight and plasma.

Like the Covenant made hardlight wrong.

[patent patio]

🤨

[empty bloom]

Because the Forerunner weapons in 4/5 shoot hardlight.

[patent patio]

Ah so repurposing forerunner tech accidentally invented the covenant's plasma?

[empty bloom]

From how it sounds, yeah.

It would explain a lot about how the energy sword works to 'sustain' a plasma reaction.

[patent patio]

They ever actually successfully got some working hardlight tech?

[empty bloom]

IIRC they at least got close enough to count.

[patent patio]

Headcanon was just a magnetic field holding the gas together

But IRL, plasma is kinda like it's own thing. Separate from Solid, Gas, liquids. So it's weird to me when most people describe the energy sword as a gas while saying plasma

[empty bloom]

Oh right actually they did manage to weaponize at least one type of Hardlight.

[patent patio]

A shield?

Or the blade behind the prelate?

[empty bloom]

The shield.

[bronze prawn]

why do you put the shield in the arm you fire

[empty bloom]

It's not on his gun hand.

[patent patio]

It's not

[empty bloom]

The gun hand is the left arm, not the right.

[bronze prawn]

just saw it

never mind

[patent patio]

It's a weird angle lol

It got me 1st time I saw this picture tbh

[bronze prawn]

it covers quite a little tbh

[empty bloom]

Prelates are kinda cool, IMO. But it's weird seeing a muscular prophet.

[bronze prawn]

only half the arm i think

[patent patio]

I was expecting to see an actual muscular prophet and not some dude in a suit tbh

[empty bloom]

Shields run a gamut of uses and techniques. Given that Prelates tend to use a lot of melee and train against elites, I imagine a hardlight buckler like that actually makes a lot of defensive sense.

[empty bloom]

I did mean 'muscular' in a relative sense.

[patent patio]

Still would've been eye opening :>

[bronze prawn]

this in theory is la creme de la creme of the san shyuum rigth ?

[empty bloom]

Prelates are basically the closest thing the Covenant ever made to Spartans.

[orchid kettle]

I wish we had more Prelates

[patent patio]

A Prelate boss woo woo

W move if Halo Studios adds flood AI and other enemies to the next Halo forge :>

[bronze prawn]

so I imagine his combat style would be like the one Ventress show against the bad batch

[orchid kettle]

It kinda sucks that we're so far along in Halo's lifespan that we can't really give the Covenant new stuff without some explanation of like, "oh they're super rare, that's why you never saw them before!"

[bronze prawn]

fast movements against bigger enemies

[orchid kettle]

give me my slugmen, 343

[patent patio]

They could give us the slugmen in forge :>>

[empty bloom]

Honestly, I have a big bone to pick with the fact we never actually see old guns in new games that often.

Readding the plasma rifle would be neat, please.

[bronze prawn]

in theory the scales of battles should be enough to sometimes dont see certain type of enemies

[patent patio]

Why we never got back our railgun and sticky detonator

[bronze prawn]

so how does the space frontline worked in the human covenant war

because in operation torpedo I think the refinery is quite inside covenant space control so like

half the galaxy under human control half the other under alien, does this lines change as more planets fall or just its a dead point for both sides .... ?

[orchid kettle]

It was actually only 17 light years from UNSC space

[bronze prawn]

Aha something like that

[orchid kettle]

the way its portrayed, especially when it comes to the old lore about the Outer Colonies being gone by 2535, makes it sound like human space is basically just this lil bubble, with maybe a radius of 100+ light years

and the covenant just surround and encroach on UNSC space on all sides

working their way inward

of course, since now we know a pretty good amount of colonies made it through the war unscathed

so maybe not all sides

[unborn patrol]

I think at some point should just conclude "it was there, the games just dont depict it" and call it good. problem when building a world around a game is, the game defines the world, not the other way around.

if someone had spent a decade figuring out how the universe works before anything was made this kind of stuff wouldnt be as much of an issue

[orchid kettle]

sometimes Im pretty jealous of Warhammer and just how much stuff there is

[unborn patrol]

its really an endless pit that one

[orchid kettle]

but I imagine that's only natural when the whole deal is that they wanna sell a ton of different miniatures

[wispy pewter]

space is big and doesn't have borders like countries do

[orchid kettle]

Dont look at me, "UNSC outer boundary" is whats said in GoO

[wispy pewter]

I wonder if UNSC space even still exist after the events of Cortana

[bronze prawn]

pretty much all faction in the current timeline is quite disorganized

[empty bloom]

I think part of it is that Halo kind of had a rocky start for that sort of behavior.

[bronze prawn]

the storm covenant, the UNSC, the banished, the created, the Innies

[wispy pewter]

UNSC has been rebuilding since the beginning and they are always getting pegged

[empty bloom]

When a new thing comes out in 40K, it's part of this whole deal that usually comes with a full redesign of a range or something.

New Necron units? Whole Necron range refresh.

[bronze prawn]

40k fans are wild

even more wild than halo and stars wars maybe

[empty bloom]

I'd argue they're more dedicated and talented.

[unborn patrol]

40k fans feel more real

[wispy pewter]

Acolyte got bullied online so bad it got cancelled

[empty bloom]

Because painting minis and managing lists to run them requires a lot of knowhow and working game knowledge compared to 'I bought Halo 3 in 2007, I am a megafan, 343i sucks'

Like, you're more inclined to put your money where your mouth is when the floor for full-scale personally invested entry is nearly two benjamins if you do it right.

[bronze prawn]

if you combine the amount of books from halo and star wars its about 410 - 420

warhammer 40k has over 500

[empty bloom]

Halo doesn't have many books for a 20+ year old multimedia franchise.

[wispy pewter]

40k seems fun, I loved it especially when Paul Atreides rode the giant sandworm

[orchid kettle]

Well whats kind of a shame is how even when we get something like Halo Wars that gives us this much needed variety of air and ground units, the books rarely if ever actually incorporate them

like I think the biggest role a Halo Wars vehicle has had is when they strapped a havok to a Jackrabbit in Envoy

[wispy pewter]

Jackrabbit some batman looking design lol

[orchid kettle]

to be fair, given what Ive seen so far, these books are either pretty short even by Halo novel standards, or a little... thin in terms of substance.

[empty bloom]

I wish we had fans actually talented and skilled enough to make a proper total conversion mod a'la Mechwarrior Living Legends.

[orchid kettle]

Been listening to Astra Militarium books, and I got to this anthology called Heroes of the Astra Militarium, and a lot of these stories are just kind of... nothing?

Like the first story is a guy investigating missing dudes, then finding those dudes, and those dudes are corrupted by Chaos. And thats the end.

[empty bloom]

Course GW also has the benefit of being a company that owns two somewhat connected universes.

So it has an effective stranglehold and nobody to answer to when it comes to churning out so much 40K.

[orchid kettle]

I liked Fifteen Hours a lot though, but even then, its audio book was about 6.5 hours, compared to your average Halo novel's 8-12

[wispy pewter]

even if Halo expands like that who is gonna read a book about some daughter trying to find her dad's missing ship

[orchid kettle]

Me.

because Rion Forge is probably the most realized character in Halo.

[wispy pewter]

I read the summary and they didn't find the SoF so I didn't bother reading

[orchid kettle]

Definitely the best female character. Her daddy issues and sad backstory actually play into the story she's a part of.

[orchid kettle]

Because its not about finding the SoF

Its about a woman coming to terms with her father's death.

[wispy pewter]

oh

[bronze prawn]

"perhaps the real treasure are the friends we made along the way" thing

[orchid kettle]

Usually I roll my eyes whenever we get these connections in extended lore, like I do with the idea that Rion is the person who wounded Gek and messed up his eye

But this was actually the first time I thought it was important to the story, because seasoned fans will know her quest is a doomed one from the start.

[wispy pewter]

a book focusing on a UNSC ship in the 2560s would be cool

[orchid kettle]

Not really? Unless you're trying to refer to the very common story trope of the character's wants and goals not really aligning with what they need emotionally.

[bronze prawn]

the forerruner trilogy is basically chakas making friends along the way as the galaxy goes to s***

[stoic hamlet]

Also, it’s own publishing house.

That means they can pump out books as much as they want with anyone they want, with no regard for other publishers timetables.

It means the quality is all over the place, but the authors they have as their dedicated stable (Abnett, French, Demski-Bowden, and a few others who I cannot recall to my shame) can write a ton of work at whatever pace they want.

And their stories can often be much more open because until around 2015 or so, 40K was a setting, rather than a story.

If they wanted to write about a random Guard Regiment that no one’s ever seen or heard of before, fighting random aliens that will never appear ever again, they can do that. Or if they want to write about a random one off antagonist, they can do that, they’re both very stuck, but also exceptionally free with what they can do.

Far more than anyone writing for Halo.

[unborn patrol]

yeah honestly the freedom is insane. watching a breakdown of that one guys CGI project Astartes, the guy says the enemies could be anything and its unclear what they are. like the creator had that much freedom to do what they want in the universe and its still fully acceptable. so cool. not in my halo!!

[stoic hamlet]

Pretty much.

I mean, I know a lot of people (me, I’m one of them) prefers his style of the Imperium’s aesthetic compared to what it usually is depicted as, but yeah, everything in there was perfectly believable and could happen somewhere in the galaxy.

The “main factions” are like the 5% of the typical day to day stuff the imperium deals with. 95% of the time it’s stuff like that, or things even more mundane.

[last anchor]

"Another food riot?"

Also, Mike Brooks has made quite a name for himself with his Ork boosk.

Books.

[fossil pier]

is this the proper channel to talk about the books?

[unique rune]

sure

[sonic lagoon]

Is there a lore reason why only the Spartan laser can destroy a monitor? Can any plasma weapons or other lasers destroy it? Could a Condor destroy a monitor?

[carmine sleet]

Rule of cool is why

[stoic hamlet]

We haven’t really seen anything else tried against a monitor.

[carmine sleet]

Plus it'd feel pretty underwhelming if we could just "kill" Spark with an assault rifle

[carmine sleet]

I mean, we can try using any weapon from Halo 3 against him in the fight we have at the end of Halo 3. It's just Bungie made him immune to everything other than the Splaser

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah but that’s not really technically a lore thing.

But yeah, I take your point.

[carmine sleet]

Aye

Honestly, I kinda would've preferred Spark to actually be vulnerable to other weapons in that sequence. I don't like that Spark is only weak to one weapon

[stoic hamlet]

But it’s so T H E M A T I C

[sonic lagoon]

So a Condor could one shot him?

[carmine sleet]

Probably but I doubt that they had any on hand for Chief to borrow

[sonic lagoon]

Or just for any monitor.

[unique rune]

No one's ever tried so it's hard to say

[sonic lagoon]

But anyway what would be the exact reason plasma wouldn’t damage a monitor? They’re both energy based weapons, is it just the amount of damage the Spartan laser does or do all lasers regardless of size damage monitors?

[carmine sleet]

The answer I gave earlier "rule of cool"

Bungie didn't care for any lore reasons

[unique rune]

I doubt there’s any reason to assume that other weapons couldn’t kill a Monitor

Hell, the Skimmers in Infinite just pried Despondent Pyre apart with their appendages

[carmine sleet]

Aye, another example is 000 Tragic Solitude, who was stabbed by Bobby Kodiak's cyborg arm and violently blew up

[ripe patio]

Killing spark at the end of 3 was annoying, because many of us spent a solid 20 minutes just blasting spark with every possible weapon in Halo CE

plot armor, yeah yeah yeah. Still though

[hot zodiac]

You didn't have the Spartan Laser though.

[ripe patio]

but I had rocket launchers, plasma grenades, plasma rifles, and more importantly, the Shotgun

[unique rune]

should've tried the Magnum instead

[fossil pier]

does anyone have any other halo book suggestions? i just got finished listening to the rubicon protocol book and it was genuinely like

a changing experience for me as a halo fan, i’ve never listened to any other book or anything and the world building, characters, and just the writing was amazing. I’m not sure if it’s just Kelly Gays writing but i loved the audio book a lot.

and my bad if this is the wrong channel i kinda figured books would fit with lore and universe not sure though.

[unique rune]

The Fall of Reach, First Strike, and Ghosts of Onyx are worth checking out.
Kelly Gay was also responsible for the Rion Forge books (Smoke and Shadow, Renegades, Point of Light), as well as Epitaph, though that last one will probably be more meaningful if you also read the Forerunner Saga (Cryptum, Primordium, Silentium) by Greg Bear.

Personally I also like The Cole Protocol and Envoy a lot.

[carmine sleet]

Grey Team novels mentioned!!!

[high elbow]

Contact Harvest is a strong suggestion!

[dusk jetty]

Yes, contact harvest

[ripe patio]

I get that The Flood is not recommended because half of it is just a retelling of Halo CE, but I think it is still worth reading

[dusk jetty]

My personal favorite

[ripe patio]

especially if you are reading The Fall of Reach and First Strike

[fervent birch]

@stoic hamlet Lowering as in the amount of metal used to make the armour

By using less metal in the shoulders, you don’t have to use less metal to protect the chest and helmet

[stoic hamlet]

Ahhh, I get you.

Yeah, I can see it.

[fervent birch]

Also, the original Rakshasa likely wasn’t full on mjolnir since it had to be worn by Delta-6 agents before SIVs were a thing

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah.

Hence my point, we don’t really know what it looks like.

[fair hazel]

Because it causes a lot of damage. A spartan laser is a powerful weapon in general

[wispy pewter]

Because lasers is hotter than plasma! /s

[spark pivot]

tbh, with how quick of a pulse the spartan laser does, i dont think it should really do serious damage to anything besides paper and wood

[obsidian thistle]

As long as the durance survives, the Monitor will persist.

Tis why I refuse to say I07s Monitor is dead

Her durance lives despite having no external carapace

[unborn patrol]

do we have actual data on it being a laser? we often call things like we see em, but the spartan laser could be shooting something else too

[strange pumice]

I guess Spartan laser is almost like Skewer

[carmine sleet]

The Splaser doesn't shoot a projectile like the Skewer. It's firing a solid-state laser

[strange pumice]

I mean in damage

[carmine sleet]

That was more aimed at Arti

[ripe patio]

The skewer was the game design answer to how to make a spartan laser less oppressive to vehicles.
In h3 whichever team got the splaser could pretty confidently suppress banshees, hogs, tanks.

[stoic hamlet]

I’d say it’s actually more oppressive, not less.

It’s a Spartan Laser with no charge up.

The laser is actually more balanced, IMO.

[ripe patio]

laser had unlimited range, instant travel time. no drop, and could 1sk a tank on the crew compartment. It is not even close

[stoic hamlet]

But the charge up meant it couldn’t be used to instantly flick shot.

Which is very easy to do.

[ripe patio]

splaser can also 1sk a full health warthog, pretty sure a skewer does not

[unborn patrol]

I know its not really a projectile but do we know its actual laser

[carmine sleet]

Yes

[fair hazel]

A laser can be less hot than plasma. Plasma can be hotter than a laser.

[ripe patio]

Heat is trickier than just temperature

[fair hazel]

It's not a hard concept to grasp that a spartan laser can output a lot and I mean a lot of energy.

[ripe patio]

we have modern industrial lasers that cut through metal like a laser through metal

[muted raft]

Karen Travis try not to whine about Spartans challenge: impossible

[pulsar sierra]

During Reach, wasn't MC in the Autumn frozen? If MC is regarded as this super weapon of a soldier, why wouldn't they awaken him during Reach? If I'm wrong, lemme know, just a bit confused as me and my dad just started CE and want some clarity.

[ripe patio]

I just... don't worry about trying to make Halo: the fall of Reach align with Halo: Reach

in the books, MC is fighting in orbit to destroy navigation data on a ship

He then rendezvous's with the PoA and hops into cryosleep for the (potentially) long slipspace journey away from reach

[muted raft]

Naw, he was fighting in orbit, he went into cryo when autumn left

[pulsar sierra]

Ughhh this lore is kinda confusing

[strange pumice]

Ain't Chief was already in cryo when the pelican landed in Autumn?

[carmine sleet]

The Chief seen in the hangar during Reach isn't canon

That's just an Easter Egg

[strange pumice]

[carmine sleet]

But honestly the timeline surrounding the Fall of Reach is really messy

[muted raft]

Tends to happen when you have dozens of people working on story at the same time

You can blame game devs and say the books are infallible tho 😁

[strange pumice]

Everyone sees story differently

[muted raft]

All except the kilo 5 story, I don't like that one

[unique rune]

Just casually leaving my canned supersoldier in the hangar, no big deal

[muted raft]

Casually freezing a man in armor that can survive in the freezing vacuum of space

When you're imagining how chief fitted in the pod with armor it's funny to think about how comically small halsey should be coming out of one in the beginning of "fall of reach"

[strange pumice]

Actually no
Kinda easy, if not including books
HW1 --> Halo Reach --> Halo CE --> Halo 2-3 --> Halo 4 --> Halo 5 Guardians --> HW2 --> Halo infinite

[muted raft]

If not including books tho

What's confusing is why the reading order merges kilo 5 and the cryptum trillogies

[strange pumice]

HW1: First contact with covenant
Halo Reach: Fall of planet Reach
Halo CE: Meeting with Installation 04
Halo 2: Death two prophets: Mercy and Regret
Halo 3: Death prophet Truth
Halo 4: Cortana's rampant and promethean
Halo 5 Guardians: prometheans and Guardians
HW2: Meeting with Banished
Halo Infinite: War against banished on ins 07
I for special missed another details

[ripe patio]

Being in space would almost certain cause chief to overheat IRL.
A microfusion reactor is going to make SOME heat, and space makes it VERY hard to get ride of excess heat

[steel stone]

Thought Id share something interesting on the Ark during Halo 3 someone I think found the really cool forerunner city that was scrapped from the game in the background or something that kinda looks like it

https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/risgaq/i_think_i_may_have_found_what_the_cut_halo_3/

[muted raft]

I would take that to mean that super advanced gel layer is ultra insulative, so how did he go into cryo with the suit on lolll

[ripe patio]

hooking into a cryotube, which is powered and has ways to handle waste heat produced by humans and spartans, can handle it I guess?

but in space you have no way to shed heat except radiation. An un-suited person would lose around 1000watts of power in space.
The intensity of the sun is about 1000 watts / square meter. Humans generate 100watts metabolically.
Space suits would change how quickly you radiate away heat (skin is good at it, that's a huge part of its job to prevent us from over-heating)

It would seem his reactor could spin down and go into hibernate mode to avoid overheating, letting him cool down and effectively cryo-sleep

[muted raft]

Or the shielding could open up?

[stoic hamlet]

They released together.

One K5, then one Forerunner, then K5, repeat.

[steel stone]

Sounds strange to bring up but what happen to the Mark 7 from Halo 5?

It called decimator which looked like Noble Six's armor

It was along time ago

It had some cool upgrades like letting Spartans put energy shields around any parts of their armor

Instead of the shield covering your body it could be put into other places

Just stuff I remember, sounded really cool and interesting as well

What happen to it and why was it not brought in Infinite?

[spark pivot]

Because infinite then would've had two armor cores that look way too similar to each other is most likely why it wasnt added to infinite

[steel stone]

That makes sense but i do like what it was capable of thats really interesting

[empty bloom]

Decimator just incorporated some elements of it, it wasn't the official Mark VII design. Apparently the Mark VII GEN1 seen on the cover of Thursday War was indicative of Naomi's preference, not the actual canon appearance of the armor.

... I might be wrong on that last part.

[stoic hamlet]

Personally I hope they retcon her to just be wearing base mark VII.

The Mark V[B] ish design just looks weird now.

[steel stone]

Thanks for explaining, some part of me was thinking that was noble six

[stoic hamlet]

…like, how do you mean… wait… explain?

[carmine sleet]

Are they trying to say Six's design was retconned? Because that definitely never happened

[gusty star]

Oh god I can’t wait to see him explain this💀

[unique rune]

Noble Six was able to build this in a cave! With a box of scraps!

[steel stone]

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fnaomi-010-recreated-in-halo-infinite-gen1-mark-vii-v0-nmcpf6exl7ib1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D640%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3De304c9f54e9334ec281523dc68f84980a61dcc64

I know its obviously not Noble 6 but seeing that armor for the first time thats the first thing that came to mind XD

Also thats a cool remake of her armor

[bitter mirage]

I’m reading all of the novels now in chronological order. This site was really helpful.

https://screenrant.com/halo-books-chronological-order-vs-release-date/

[fossil pier]

thank you i appreciate it 🙏

[obsidian thistle]

Canon Order isnt great

Most people get pushed away with the totally different Forerunner Saga. And while they arnt bad books (they are great)... they are best enjoyed once you are interested in the universe

[gusty star]

Read all the Bungie books first then read whatever 343 series you want

[willow lava]

I’m so confused abt where the ODSTs are in infinite. Like there were ODSTs in rubicon protocol and there sure as hell was ODSTs on the infinity so where are they in game?

I know of at least 2 odst squads on zeta, hatriox (hate/atriox) and the one that was with the boat crew

[muted raft]

Kilo 5 is literally just "what if humans bad"

[carmine sleet]

Likely just a case of the devs having to prioritise other things over adding in ODSTs as a variant of the marines

[willow lava]

That would make sense

[orchid kettle]

Unfortunately they were eaten first by the Brutes

Turns out they're just tastier than your average marine

[unique rune]

The extra body armor keeps the flavor sealed in

[carmine sleet]

Goes well with the bananas that can be found at one of the Brute camps on Zeta too

[misty geyser]

Anyone know the anwser to this?

Would it be possible for a marine to become a Spartan 4 or is it just ODSTs? Or is it in this order: become ODST then get the option to become a Spartan 4? 🤔

Never really figured out how opportunities like that arise within the UNSC, seems like ranks are all over the shop

Just remembered, Spartans are now a military branch in the UNSC, so surely it's possible right?

[unique rune]

Someone could go from the Marines straight to S-IV or go ODST first and then S-IV. There's no rigid, set pathway for that.

[misty geyser]

Thanks for clearing that up

Woundering if Chips Dubbo would ever become a spartan 4 😂👀

[orchid kettle]

Sometimes you're a grizzled veteran of a hundred battles

or you're some baby faced newbie fresh out of boot camp, but the recruiter can just smell the main character on you

[carmine sleet]

Or you do a Vale where she helped save the galaxy, then found it difficult to go back to the boring old routine, take part in war games, do well, then get approached to join the Spartan IV program

[strange oracle]

did the insurrectionists know ONI was testing on children for the spartan program?

[empty bloom]

All UNSC personnel regardless of branch can become a Spartan IV. Some were out of the UNSC officially when they were reselected but were still earmarked for Spartandom due to contracting with the UNSC.

Notable examples include;

Spartan Eklund - Army
Spartan Thorne - Army
Spartan Grant - Navy
Spartan Vale - ONI/Navy/Contractor (She had an interesting career path)
Spartan Tanaka - Army
Spartan Locke - ONI/Navy
Spartan Dinh - ONI/Navy
Spartan Ray - Air Force

In fact, most IVs introduced have actually been non-ODSTs, to my knowledge.

I might be wrong on that, but on a quick think, I think I'm right?

[carmine sleet]

Some suspected that the Spartans had insidious origins but only one actually knew if I recall correctly?

[carmine sleet]

Only ones I can think of off the top of my head that were former ODSTs are Alpha Nine and Palmer

[strange oracle]

buck was an ODST

[carmine sleet]

He's part of Alpha Nine

[strange oracle]

oh right

i forget their name

[empty bloom]

Hoya and DeMarco.

Also Horvath.

I would imagine there's a few reasons ODSTs are not popular IV candidates. Spartan IVs draw from more modern conventions of ideal picks for Special Forces units, which tend to attract people from a lot of different fields or at least try to, in order to have a more diverse tool set and capability level.

ODSTs in general specialize, for the same reason Spartans do, but apparently this is only done by more 'elite' ODST teams, because the majority of ODST deployments are treated as effectively Paratroopers+. Assuming teams like Sunray, A9, FTR, and the unnamed team from Babysitter are not standard, it would go a long way to explaining how ODSTs are not extremely frequently selected.

[strange oracle]

could also be like what buck thought

he didn’t wanna be an ODST bc he didn’t wanna leave his squad

among other reasons listed

[empty bloom]

Buck's a biased narrator. I don't put a lot of stake in his perspective.

I do believe him when he says Spartan IV training is harder than ODST training, because... You're getting PT lessons from a 7' supersoldier.

But that's really about it. His statement about the Gods thing is still stupid, for example, and makes no sense.

I'm sure that'd be an issue with IV recruitment in general, not just ODSTs, though. It's a big ask.

Becoming a IV means becoming, quite literally, something more than human; The expectations laid upon you are significantly higher. You are effectively sacrificing your commonality to the common soldiery to become something more.

Unlike the IIs and IIIs (No, child coercion is still bad. And what they did with the IIIs was coercion.), IVs fully had a choice in becoming augmented; The majority earned their role through war, the minority earned it through skill.

So they have the capability to decline becoming something so utterly alien to what they were that a normal life is effectively locked away from them forever.

[carmine sleet]

Better to be given the choice of becoming a demigod than to have that life forced upon you (Obviously they're not actual demigods but you get the idea)

[stoic hamlet]

I wouldn’t include Sunray in the list, as they’re a command element of a larger battalion.

Raven are just… odd, and I don’t like them, they break too many conventions that we know of for Silva’s unit.

[empty bloom]

TBF, I don't actually know much about Sunray.

[carmine sleet]

As someone who still needs to read The Flood, could you give me the TLDR on the conventions Raven are breaking?

[empty bloom]

I just assumed they were a specialized supersquad deal like A9 due to the specific emphasis.

[carmine sleet]

Fair

[empty bloom]

Well, I assume, for starters, being treated as effectively hyper-independent mini-Spartans who are just thrown as a four man squad into every single op that can be found.

[carmine sleet]

Fair, but I assume some of that is just for the sake of gameplay

[orchid kettle]

A9 has been implied to be a "conventional squad" according to the data drop that featured an evaluation on Buck being added to Kilo-5 potentially

which makes it even weirder that Dare was ordered to make sure this random squad leader was in high spirits during his vacay

The encyclopedia I think calls them specialized, but as like a "rapid reaction" team, but it also calls the ODSTs in general the premiere rapid reaction force of the UNSC

so like, it just sounds real redundant

[stoic hamlet]

As Trench said, they’re basically treated as mini-Spartans, but overall it’s the break in convention.

The Flood is abundantly clear on where every ODST is at all times, we know the total number of ODST’s on the Autumn, how they were organized, and roughly how the casualties worked out.

There were 400 ODST’s on the Autumn, arranged into Companies (A, B, C, D) and further arranged into separate platoons.

From what the book tells us, Mckay’s Company (explicitly referred to as ‘B’j had 130 troopers on the Autumn, but hit the ring with a few Kia’s. C and D Companies are said to have suffered pretty well no casualties, A Company is left unknown, but we know they were with Silva for pretty well the entire ordeal and served as his HQ.

When Silva sends B and C companies to take what would become Alpha Base, the book tells us under no uncertain terms that the remaining ODST’s are all with Silva, there is no room for Raven to be gallivanting off on their own adventures or separated from the rest of the battalion.

The rest of the book mostly focuses on McKay and B company, but they’re augmented/reinforced by members of C and D companies, at times.

All ODST’s in The Flood are accounted for pretty well at all times. Raven does not fit within the established structure. They have no established sqaud, platoon, or company. They cannot be with A, B, or C Companies, and they don’t make sense to be with D Company either.

So they just kinda.. exist.

[orchid kettle]

Bacon has also pointed out that they're labelled as spartans in the game files

though apparently Silva is too?

I wouldn't be surprised if Raven was meant to be a third "TACSIM" game, like with Spartan Assault and Strike, where you're just a IV trainee inserting yourself into some historical battle

[carmine sleet]

Game file names are often inconsistent with lore though

[carmine sleet]

And thanks for the explanation. Raven are definitely an odd bunch for sure

[orchid kettle]

There's a decent number of coincidences, like Raven having no defined ranks, and their unit name in general being more in line with Spartan-IV convention

of course you could just argue 343 didn't wanna call a game Halo: Charlie-Four or whatever

Though honestly I dunno if Fireteam Raven is all that better of a name either

[stoic hamlet]

Happy to provide!

[orchid kettle]

also don't you mean they have no established combat team, Canadian

😏

[strange oracle]

so, we know in forward unto dawn, none of the cadets knew what a spartan was, do all active duty members know? only a certain amount of marines? do all ODSTs know what a spartan is?

[unique rune]

Most UNSC personnel wouldn't have known at the time. The Spartan program didn't go public until 2547, close to the end of the war.

[spark pivot]

at this point if i remember correctly, the spartan program was still classified, so besides the few who worked with them, they wouldn't have been really known

so besides the stories that would have been circulated, no one would've known, and those stories likely wouldnt have made it to academies like the one in FUD

[strange oracle]

would ODSTs count in the category of not knowing?

[spark pivot]

unless ofc you have a kid who's capable of breaking encryptions by likely some of the best AI's to date

[spark pivot]

they wouldnt know unless they saw one with their eyes while serving together on a mission most likely

[unique rune]

The vast majority of ODSTs would not have been aware of the Spartan program outside of any circulating rumors.

[spark pivot]

the most anyone would think, (probably from seeing a clip like the one the cadets saw in FUD) would be, "oh, that must be a new ODST armor"

[versed helm]

I got a question I’ve read the kilo five series about four times and I’m still bit confused, like what was their whole purpose

[spark pivot]

black ops

kilo 5 is a black ops unit

[versed helm]

Ohh

I guess that makes sense

Thank you

[stoic hamlet]

That’s how they waved away the III’s.

Kelly and Halsey both heard about the III’s SPI armour… but they thought they were ODST’s because all they had to go on were rumours.

IMO a lot of people (even among 343/HS staff) don’t seem to realize the UNSC even Post War is more akin to the age of sail than the post-modern era we live in now, at least when it comes to information.

If you weren’t physically there to witness something you’d never hear about it, or you’d just have the wildest rumours that suffer from the good ‘ol fashioned broken telephone.

[versed helm]

But wouldn’t people be on the radio hearing about it or is that just like people on a crew or in the UNSC

[stoic hamlet]

Remember it’s not like today, where everyone’s live-streaming on Twitch or YouTube or whatever, it’s most akin to the Age of Sail, where information is only able to be verified by those actually there because the only way to get information from solar system to solar system is via carrier ships.

If you were on Earth, and someone told you that there were… idk, cotton candy trees on Reach, unless you physically went to Reach or had them send a physical piece of data aboard a ship you’d have no idea if they were telling the truth.

You could hear about it (but again, not live unless you’re on the same planet, and even then you might not be able to hear it live) over the radio, but depending on what you hear, you’d have no idea what any of it means.

[spark pivot]

tbh, i doubt this is completely true, bc i assume the internet would've scaled with how much they expanded, but it is still true to an extent

[versed helm]

I feel like the government of the planet or something once catching wind of the war or something they would’ve warned citizens or whoever was there at the time

[spark pivot]

no, bc that would cause planetwide chaos

which is a very very bad thing

also, the covenant tended to just, show up

out of nowhere

[versed helm]

True

But some planets were prepared before they showed up right?

[stoic hamlet]

Well, we know FTL comms aren’t really a thing.

And we know the UNSC’s MO is basically jam everything that isn’t ours, and counter-jam what is ours, so stuff like that isn’t getting out.

And then, of course, that assumes stuff like communications uplinks survive the first bombardments or attacks, and that they’re not being used by the military.

And that doesn’t even take into account the monopoly the UNSC has on communications.

[stoic hamlet]

Some planets prepared in advance. Chi-Rho, a planet mentioned in The Cole Protocol, was building giant bunker complexes deep below ground to wait out the orbital bombardments.

[versed helm]

So there was some form of communication with other planets when attacks began?

[stoic hamlet]

Well, the example in The Cole Protocol was 2535.

But refugees started appearing as early as 2526.

But a great example of what it would actually be like for people to hear about a Spartan or Covenant force would actually be something like this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2CHV5tFRmrs&pp=ygUeQXJ0aXN0cyBkcmF3IGJsb29kYm9ybmUgYm9zc2Vz

Artists are told to draw a boss from Bloodborne, but they cannot look it up or anything, they only have the description of them.

[versed helm]

Oh I know them, now that I think about it that makes sense

Word of mouth can be mistaken for something else

[strange oracle]

what’s the latest update we have on jai?

[wispy pewter]

So there is no Space Internet in halo

[fair hazel]

Tune in to the next book

[proper mango]

Not sure about that. I mean there are rumours and gaps in onis network sure. But it's more like postmodern espionage than the age of sail.
I mean most people are carrying personal communication devices.
AIs can retrieve information from across the galaxy.
Most unsc personnel have some sort of recording device on them and active be it hud recording, holo recording, live feed or audio. And yes these can be faked and altered but that seems more postmodern than age of sail in every wat to me.
Maybe I'm missing something?

From my reading of the fiction its more a case that those who want to believe conspiracy and use unverified sources for information will and those more discerning won't.
Which feels quite contemporary to now imo.

Obviously places like the rubble or militia controlled space will be more open to the rumour mill than onxy or harvest where unsc presence is more ubiquitous.

From my understanding the bigger issue with information between worlds is political subterfuge and censorship.
Cole protocol explicitly highlights that throughout the novel.
And unwillingness to share information is a very modern issue.

In the age of sail a captains log on a wreckage is far less reliable than a frigates internal data in halo for example. Not quite the same.
And the use of automated messenger vessels was ultimately superceded by waypoint for most things. Super lumnial internet between worlds is a far cry from pre internet society or at least seems so to me.

[wispy pewter]

Ted talk

[proper mango]

Thanks for coming

[sonic lagoon]

What is the main advantage that Spartan 1’s have over ODSTs?

[wispy pewter]

what is the main advantage over a human and an ant

oh you're saying Spartan 1s

[stoic hamlet]

When we’re talking g about the early to late war? Yes, it very much is like the age of sail.

Both Contact Harvest and Ghosts of Onyx make this abundantly clear, with both books’ plot points kind of relying on that aspect to work.

Even with the Slipspace COM probe introduced in Ghosts of Onyx (a new technology in the 2550’s) it still takes weeks for messages to travel to and from planets that possess them (at that point, only Earth, Reach and Onyx that we know of).

Even the 2022 encyclopedia supports this:

A dense web of radio broadcasts and tight-beam laser links tie together humanity within a star system. but these are unsuited for Interstellar communications. Sllpspace-capable couriers transporting large communications arrays for uploading and downloading news and data between star systems remains the fastest and most efficient way to bridge the dark between stars. with slipspace-tunneling wavecoms supplementing these efforts, starting in the mid-26th century.

• 2022 encyclopedia (pg 029

(Man, that formatting, lol finally)

You also have this attachment mentioning as the war progressed satalite links and etc became increasingly scarce (due to destruction or retasking):

HUL-I/RS/ARGON: AN/PZY-6000 ARGON ground reconnaissance and surveillance (RS) modules were introduced during the Covenant War as aerial and orbital sensor platforms became scarce.

[proper mango]

I beg to differ.
Intranet predates waypoint in universe.
And even lacking it the data logs abundant in all technology make the age of space faring a vast departure from form the age of sail.

I acknowledged the allowance of subterfuge and misinformation in the early novels precisely because I don't agree they compare to the age of sail. Rather to later times of political espionage.

Your quotations undermine your claim in my mind.
Here we have examof large amounts of verifiable data on a regular exchange across space.

Yes rumours are common but they are today also, particularly online.

Data exchange is far more contemporary than it is age of exploration.

We aren't reliant on mostly unverifiable spoken or written accounts from a small sample pool with little to know access to tools and data.

It's far more like later control of I formation spread eras than exploration age in nature. Equally open to the rise of myth.

[stoic hamlet]

I mean, I’d liken it to a bit of both.

But I’d still say it’s more akin to AoS than it is to today.

The original conversation was about people learning about the Spartan program in the early war. The only way you’d be able to see them is if you were physically present or had a video sent to you. Both situations require physical travel via a courier ship. You’re not getting live feeds of a battle like you can today, you’re getting grainy footage that’s weeks out of date by the time it disseminates to the common person.

[sonic lagoon]

What is the main advantage that Spartan 1’s have over ODSTs?

[proper mango]

I can see where your coming from for sure I just there is too many Stark contrasts for the comparison to hold up to scrutiny.
Found footage is such aassive leap ahead of anything in age of exploration times.
And information being weeks out of date before reaching the public is still true today much of the time.
When this stuff can be recorded and shown and has actively in universe been altered shared and suppressed it is to me at least. Far more analogous to modernity. Reminiscent of events from the 80s right up until today. And once a peice of physical media "leaks" in universe it inevitably ends up "on com" and the spread is invariably far more like that of today than anything pre internet or VHS.
I'm not trying to dismissive. Just engaging with the thoughts you put forward hope that's clear.

[carmine sleet]

You didn't need to ask the question twice and Orion's don't have too many details about their augmentations to really make comparisons. We know what was done to them, but no specifics on how much better they are than normal humans (Unless I'm missing something)

[unique rune]

The Halopedia page has some stuff from ILB and the old Encyclopedia. Nothing very specific but it's pretty much just improvements in strength, reaction time, senses, etc. over baseline humans.

[carmine sleet]

Aye. Honestly I don't mind not knowing all the little nitty gritty details about the Orion I's. It's ok to have some mysteries

[empty bloom]

Spartan I's are augmented, ODSTs just maybe use regular steroids sometimes like your average meathead jock special forces archtype.

[orchid kettle]

The encyclopedia now states that the benefits they got from their augs were pretty much negligible, and they were indistinguishable from a normal human outside of any extensive medical examination

I feel like people are a lil too hung up on the ORIONs being good at their job because they were in a failed super soldier program-- as opposed to them being in a super soldier program because they were good at their job.

[dusk jetty]

It wasn’t necessarily a failure

It proved the concept could work

It was a failure in regards to what happened to the candidates I guess

Borins syndrome and so on

[orchid kettle]

Its failings gave Halsey/ONI a valuable lesson

but it itself was deemed unsuccessful, according to the encyclopedia, verbatim

[carmine sleet]

Boren's wasn't a side effect of the Orion I program, it was used to cover up the side effects the subjects of Orion I experienced to deter anyone investigating any oddities in the DNA and physiology

[orchid kettle]

Its not entirely clear if Boren's is real in-universe and the ORIONs are just given a diagnosis as a mask, or if the condition is wholly fabricated.

Forge's father for example, apparently not only suffered from Boren's syndrome but actually died from it after it ate away at his mind and body, according to Smoke and Shadow

[empty bloom]

I feel like Borens is a blanket term for a myriad of physiological symptoms caused by augmentation strain.

So it's a real thing, and causes real issues, but it's presented as a mask.

From what it sounds like, the augmentation issues are actually consistent between gens, even IVs.

Neurological issues - Tremors, Parkinsons-style issues, nerve damage, constant misfiring
Physical issues - muscle atrophy, muscle hypertrophy, disfigurement, eyesight degradation, skeletal ossification
Genetic issues - Tissue/genemod rejection

I figure the loss of skin suffered by Cassandra-075 is a tissue rejection issue, not a physical onset.

[orchid kettle]

If its real, I wonder if the idea is that its purely what you get from coming into contact with too much nasty Covenant-specific biohazards

Johnson's fake cause was a crate of plasma grenades, and apparently you "can" get it from inhaling the fumes radiating from the Covenant Carbine

according to that old bungie collection of lore tidbits for the weapons in halo 3

[empty bloom]

People who aren't very knowledgeable about medicine likely believe that symptoms consistent with radiation damage (Genetic degredation) mimic the various known issues of Boren's syndrome.

[orchid kettle]

but Forge's father was never stated to have fought in the war, only the Insurrection

[empty bloom]

It's kind of like how people constantly get symptoms confused with many rare-but-well-known diseases

"Jimmy was nearly hit by a fuel rod and his skin started to melt due to rad exposure a week later" can turn into "Jimmy contracted Boren's syndrome, I saw him open that box of plasma grenades" if not fact-checked, I'd say.

[orchid kettle]

what if i eat the fuel rod

will i gain its power

[empty bloom]

Given the type of threat the Covenant was (Mysterious, inscruteable, very, very aggressive and bloodthirsty), I imagine that miscommunication and misinformation due to panic, even among veteran warfighters, would be very common.

I dunno, maybe my thought on it might be a little too 'realistic' for Halo.

[carmine sleet]

No no, keep going with this, you're making good points here

[unborn patrol]

yes

[dusk jetty]

It’s well documented that normal viruses and bacteria can cause damage/changes to DNA over time, sometimes even through generations.

Sickle cell anyone?

[empty bloom]

Current COVID-19 medical research indicates this as well.

Including earlier shortening of telomeres.

Yaaaaaay.

[dusk jetty]

Also literally just any form of radiation can do that

It doesn’t have to be “nuclear”

[unique rune]

very briefly

[dusk jetty]

If I stand under an x ray machine while it’s on for 12 hours I’ll at least get a little woozy

[empty bloom]

Yeah, but as I said-I doubt your average UNSC troop is going to know the difference between aug gene damage and 'He inhaled the funni Carbine gas', especially when maybe one or two out of every tennish thousand Marines would actually be someone who not only picked up, but reloaded, a covenant carbine.

[dusk jetty]

I guess plasma as just an element could maybe offer some adverse effects for veterans

Besides being burned, obviously

Just a bolt passing by you leaves that tiny amount of atomic energy

[empty bloom]

Rumors start because people are misinformed or uninformed, so I imagine Boren's syndrome is very much real (And if I were to hazard a guess in-universe, it's likely named after either the first victim or the first doctor to work on fixing it or the guy who made the first Spartan I augs), and just spread knowledge-wise as a commonly known but prohibitively rare disease that has more layman misdiagnoses than real ones.

[dusk jetty]

For Johnson’s case, I’m willing to bet it’s both a mask for Orion effects and from 30+ years of covenant combat

[empty bloom]

Likely some poor I was put on hospice care due to his or her augs, eventually croaked, and stories of what the disease was leaked for one reason or another, and boom, it's now a commonly 'known' disease.

Weirdly enough, I think Johnson might have been an 'intended' possible for the Librarian's genesong plans.

So if the HCW and all the events had happened in a way where the Orions got their power armor, and Johnson was in place and the II program wasn't ready or didn't exist, Johnson likely would've been doing what Chief ultimately does.

It'd explain why he apparently is the only 1 known to not only take to his augs like a duck to water, but actually stay highly competitive in a military sense well into his autumn years.

[dusk jetty]

I believe the original MJOLNIR concept art for CE is canon as it was planned as an Orion power armor/combat suit

I have a few pieces of it in MCC

I have no idea if it’s actually wearable in-universe

[empty bloom]

IIRC it hit functional prototype phase.

But my point was more cyclical 'every generation has its Chief/II equivelants'

Hell, I'd assume Buck is another one on those lines.

[empty bloom]

(Except he, y'know, wasn't kidnapped)

[dusk jetty]

Yeah, there’s the premier version of every aug/gen

Although I think at this point all the IV’s are “premier”

[empty bloom]

I imagine it scales and most IVs are going to be people who have close or ideal genetic markers that would have made them possibles for the II or III program.

Hence explaining why they seem to be universally considered effectively supersoldiers even before they got their augmentations-That's literally what was said about the IIs.

[carmine sleet]

Ok, I need someone to write this AU

[empty bloom]

Like, I'd say it's impractical for the Librarian's plan to work if something doesn't ensure a not-insignificant-section of the population has the genetic capability to 'evolve' via augmentation.

As that seems to be a key component of her plan.

So either;

A) Something ensures the human population has activated 'Reclaimer' genetic code.
B) All of the human population has "Reclaimer" code but circumstances in vitro allow it to express.

I'd assume B.

I'd also assume that IV gene therapy does something to unlock that gene if it isn't already activated.

[carmine sleet]

Aye, like, it's an eventuality for humanity to naturally get there but the augmentations are humanity, unknowingly, reaching that point faster

So if say humanity never did go down the route of making super soldiers, then eventually you'd just get humans that commonly are that way

[empty bloom]

Right. Evolutionary pressure might drive that, eventually.

[carmine sleet]

Aye

[empty bloom]

Which... That is a colossal amount of faith for her to put on humanity with that one.

[carmine sleet]

It's not destiny like I have seen some people put it at least

[empty bloom]

Whew.

[carmine sleet]

Like, I am not joking when I say I've seen people taking the Librarian messing with human DNA and interpreting it to mean she planned John and Cortana specifically

[orchid kettle]

I dunno why they decided only some humans get to have admin privileges

I guess so its not that easy for the enemy to kidnap one random dude and then have full access to whatever Forerunner facility they're fighting over?

[dusk jetty]

The precursors (apparently) thought that too, but Epitaph kind of threw that into question

And then there’s the whole “who’s a reclaimer and who isn’t” argument

As far as I’m concerned humans as a whole can access forerunner tech

(Pretty sure silver timeline has some weird version of it)

[orchid kettle]

i kinda get it from a practical, storytelling standpoint

there's billions of humans, and in the post war environment, it doesn't sound that hard for a random Covenant remnant warlord to scoop one up and have an all access pass to whatever Forerunner artifact of the week we have to contend with

while at least the Covenant of old may not have widely understood that humans were weirdly good at accessing Forerunner systems

[dusk jetty]

I don’t think the covenant either knew or cared, the prophets would presumably silence any talk of it and they could still get in without them

But I do wonder who is and isn’t a reclaimer if it is a status

Would a Neanderthal be able to activate something

Or is just humans

Either way here’s hoping it gets elaborated on

[sonic lagoon]

Apologies, my internet connection gave out, it continued to read as unsent so sending it twice was likely just the connection being iffy or something, as it only reads I sent it once.

[sonic lagoon]

That’s makes sense. Spartans 1s function on their own, ODSTs use performance enhancers. I remember marines in Halo Wars 1 use adrenaline.

[stoic hamlet]

Everyone in the UNSC does, technically. Combat Stims are basically part of every kit.

[sonic lagoon]

Oh OK, so Spartan 1s can carry more weight, punch harder, faster or more accurate reaction fire, and better awareness, maybe better at noticing cloaked units? I’m very strategically minded.

[stoic hamlet]

They’re slightly faster, and a little stronger. Probably better stamina. The original goal wasn’t to make super soldiers, just soldiers that the CMA could use on a wider variety of colonies.

[sonic lagoon]

Was their armor much better than ODST armor or just the same?

[empty bloom]

Unknown/worse?

Orion armor wasn't made.

At least, not on a production level

[stoic hamlet]

They wore the same armour as regular NAVSPECWAR/CMA Marines.

[sonic lagoon]

The same kinda from CE-Rest of games marines?

[stoic hamlet]

It seems so, yes.

They’re not really super soldiers. They’re just slightly better soldiers. More like peak human, kind of thing.

[sonic lagoon]

Kinda like ghouls from Fallout, same size but overall better. Weird comparison but it kinda makes sense to me.

[stoic hamlet]

Ehhh, I wouldn’t say that.

I mean I get the comparison, but the ORION soldiers, even with their enhancements, were indistinguishable from any other CMA or UNSC Marine without invasive medical procedures, per the 2022 encyclopedia.

[orchid kettle]

I think what really helps put things into perspective is comparing what happens when Chief out of armor punches a man vs when Johnson punches a man

Johnson punches a man, the man's nose gets broken.

Or maybe he loses a tooth.

When lil baby 14 year old Chief punches a man, that man dies.

[lost loom]

Yesterday I had a very colorful conversation with some fellow 40K fans because I said the Covvies could hold their own against The Imperium

[gusty star]

Oh god not another cross-franchise power-scaling conversation🙄

[empty bloom]

They could hold their own in the same way some of the species the Imperium finds too insignificant to devote actual power to crushing can hold their own.

So they can't actually hold their own.

[carmine sleet]

So long as nobody starts trying to claim the Clones from Star Wars would win against the Covenant, we're good

[dusk jetty]

Erm they’re called the GAR actually 🤓

[wispy pewter]

The clones can win against the covenant, tho it's not fair unless they have the entire Republic behind their backs

like if ODST's already give the covenant trouble imagine millions of better trained Clone troopers

[empty bloom]

Training quality difference is dubious.

[misty geyser]

This sounds like a fun conversation 😂

So is this Imperium of Man when they aren't fighting on several fronts and say the covenant pre-schism height of its power? 🤔

[ripe patio]

but who would win if the pre-schism covenant teamed up with Goku (at the end of the Cell Saga) and fought the Imperium of Man post-horus heresy teamed up with omni-man

[misty geyser]

That's very cool to know, thanks for the break down

[misty geyser]

The latter 😏😂

[ripe patio]

what if we throw the klingon empire on the Covenant's side?

These sorts of cross fantasy universe comparisons can be fun but are utterly pointless. Universes need to be self-consistent, not cross-consistent

[lost loom]

Plop halo 2 Covvies in 40K somehow

[carmine sleet]

If you want to make things interesting, just throw a few Daleks into the mix, a single one is capable of wiping out cities with ease if there's no time traveler in a blue box involved

[lost loom]

Or halo Reach Covvies

[ripe patio]

One punch man specifically exists to make fun of this kind of power-scaling

[misty geyser]

100% pointless 100% fun, it only becomes crap whem people get too defensive about it

[lost loom]

I think Doomslayer could take bro

[spark pivot]

Doesn't saitama scale to the power of his opponent?

or am i just going off of not enough information since i dont watch the show

[lost loom]

Doomslayer does too though

[misty geyser]

Sounds like a few Fallout enemies 😂

[ripe patio]

Stuff like how would the flood fare against the tyranids? We have to make so many assumptions about how they would interact that it is just "however you want it to go, and then work backwards for a justification"

[lost loom]

Doomslayer is as powerful as his enemy and is as powerful as his will

[spark pivot]

so its a draw then, got it

[lost loom]

P much

[spark pivot]

( i still think superman solo's optimus prime, despite prime being durable af)

[lost loom]

Absolutely

[misty geyser]

They'd hash it out then eventually realise the true enemies are everyone else

[lost loom]

Who thinks Optimus wins that

[carmine sleet]

I thought his whole thing is that he literally got so strong that nobody can defeat him and it's just boring to fight people because he only needs one punch to win

[spark pivot]

no one, until you look at the fact that prime literally wields the knowledge and power of a god

at which point it starts to get sketchy

(The matrix of leadership is what im talking about if you dont know)

[misty geyser]

How would that even work? They're technically both hiveminded species right?

When a hivemind fights a hivemind

That's what you wanna ask

[carmine sleet]

Are we talking Golden Age Superman or one of the more recent iterations? Because Golden Age Supes is really OP

Not saying Supes isn't still OP in his more recent iterations but it makes it a bit more fair of a fight

[spark pivot]

i dont have a clue, i dont really pay much attention to superman bc he doesnt interest me all that much

but ik superman gets stupidly OP

[carmine sleet]

Fair, I was like that too before some stuff happened

But yeah, his whole thing is that he is someone who has the power to do so much, and uses it to do things like save cats from trees or fight a bald billionaire who thinks he should have that power instead

[spark pivot]

the funny thing is that said bald billionair would do a heck of a lot of good if he stopped going after supes so much

[carmine sleet]

Indeed

Like, he makes mechs specifically to fight Superman when those mechs could be used for helping in natural disasters or warzones to save people

[lost loom]

Both stand no chance to

Minecraft Steve

[carmine sleet]

So long as it's classic Steve and not movie Steve

[thorn ember]

There's a reason why the Cut Lex Luthor a Check trope is named after him.

[thorn ember]

Yeah. He could be a god and give into vices but chose to be human and become more virtuous. Complex for the man of Steel. Even the Chief has similar issues too despite being a Spartan.

[patent patio]

Saitama is pretty much unlimited in terms of power scaling, but to be honest we'll never really know the dude's cap off

His last battle, he had to hold back just because he was holding the heart of his friend

I only see 2 people reasonably beating Saitama.

1. Shaggy because duh
2. Popeye because he's pretty much unstoppable when he gets the spinach. The problem, he always gets his spinach

[humble girder]

🍔

[versed helm]

Is Black Box from the Kilo-5 series almost or is smarter than Cortana? cause when I’ve read the books and such the ai seems to be a lot more smarter than Cortana but I may be wrong

[orchid kettle]

I think its really just a matter of the writers having different ideas on an AI's true capabilities

Because yeah, Kilo-5 really likes to have BB fragments scattered across the galaxy that are apparently all in real-time communication with each other

while Cortana isnt really written that way in First Strike

I think even in Contact Harvest, Sif only really uses a "fragment" to communicate with Mack directly in his core, and it freaks her out for whatever reason when Mack closes the door behind her, as if losing that fragment would be super dangerous

which almost made it feel like AI astral projection rather than like, just being able to occupy multiple places at once

[versed helm]

So it’s all up to reader’s perspective?

[wispy pewter]

People don't realize Star Trek technology is like x1000 more advanced than Halo's

they can transport a nuke on the Infinity and it blows up 💀

didn't read your next message lol

[stoic hamlet]

They’re different AI for different purposes.

Cortana was made for intelligence gathering and electronic warfare.

BB was basically an admin.

They do different things.

[versed helm]

Oh

That’s makes more sense now

[lost loom]

The Slayer and Minecraft Steve seem to be missing

[spark pivot]

As hilariously OP as Steve is, i dont think he's touching Saitama, also slayer was discussed before that

[lost loom]

Stalemate

With slayer

But with Steve?

I think he could beat Saitama, he’s Minecraft Steve yk

[spark pivot]

Without including mods, theres not much he can throw at saitama to actually hurt him, and he isnt really all that fast without potions, although yes he is very strong and durable (ish)

[lost loom]

Shulkers

Fill all slots in shulker with stacks of Netherite

Replace one slot with another shulker

Repeat infinitely

Punch with the shulker

[spark pivot]

To be fair, we dont know exactly how much netherite weighs, but good point

Gold would be a better bet

[lost loom]

Probably

[spark pivot]

randomly realizing that horses can carry much more than a few tonnes of material with no ill effect whatsoever

Why are things so strong 😭

[wispy pewter]

Steve casually carrying 64 blocks of iron cubes

[fallow field]

Love how the UNSC stole a bunch of kids and just pumped them with a crap-ton of drugs

[crude stirrup]

How does Brazil fit into this whole story?

[ripe patio]

It is still in south america

[crude stirrup]

Dont have anything speaking about brazil?

[stoic hamlet]

It was presumably involved in the Rainforest Wars in the 2160’s, but otherwise we don’t have anything about it.

[empty bloom]

It was the site of where an elite terrorist tried to set off a HAVOK.

[orchid kettle]

it was the site of where DeMarco got laid

[empty bloom]

Specifically Rio

[orchid kettle]

Madsen, I assume, was also there.

[empty bloom]

:>

[forest kayak]

Beside of real reasons, is there a lore reason as to why scarabs aren’t in CE? I’d assume because it be hard to drop one of those on the ring 😭

[unique rune]

There probably wouldn't be much reason to deploy one in the first place. Nothing to really dig up, no super-entrenched UNSC forces to plow through.

[spark pivot]

it really wouldnt be tbh, but there was no reason to deploy a mining vehicle there, there was nothing to really mine

[stoic hamlet]

Not only that, but Covenant forces essentially glassing a holy ring would have probably see a mini civil war erupt right then and there.

[bronze prawn]

does the covenant recognized itself as the covenant

I mostly remember human characters refering to them as the covenant

[spark pivot]

yes, they called themselves the covenant, thats what they introduced themselves to humanity as before beginning their genocidal campaign

[obsidian thistle]

A Scarab was present on the Ring. Seemingly around the site of the PoA.

Fireteam Raven take it out.

https://www.halopedia.org/File:HFR_LastStand_Enemies.png

I theorise that either...

It was there to take out the PoA (likely answer, cleansing the ring from human fifth)
OR it was there to dig cause there was stuff buried on the ring...

https://www.halopedia.org/images/9/94/HM-Thanolekgolo.png?20211105042043

[turbid wedge]

is this a playable mode in MCC????

[spark pivot]

sadly no, it looks like it was a part of the Halo Fireteam Raven game

which isnt a part of MCC

[turbid wedge]

oh okay. i never played multiplayer in mcc so i dont know what maps are there and this looked like a firefight map😅

[gusty star]

There’s also a scarab on Delta Halo so what people were saying about the Covenant not deploying scarabs on rings def was wrong

[hasty kraken]

i require assistance, preferably someone with extensive knowledge for dnd and the halo universe

[gusty star]

This can’t be good

[steel stone]

Question and this always bothered me about Reach

In cutscenes where is the knife on the player?

For some reason it was never shown on them in cutscenes, did they forget to add it? in lore they just didnt have one?

Carter was always shown to have his knife and its placed where it normally would be on player

What is going on there?

[stoic hamlet]

Game visuals basically aren’t canon, the knives are there canonically.

As are magazine pouches, medkits, rucksacks. Etc.

[hasty kraken]

carter i cant explain why his knife was where it is normally for players, but if u wanted some kind of answer for canonical reasons, some spartan armors would have knives in their forearm compartments. that's the only sense i can make for it

[crude stirrup]

The monitors of forge game is a generic monitor or have a lore of this?

[high elbow]

Generic.

[steel stone]

Thats understandable thanks for answering

[obsidian thistle]

No lore given. Especially now that 99% of the time you'll never see it outside rare cases

https://www.halopedia.org/UNSC_Cartographer_Initiative

Thats Forge lore however

That is pretty much the furthest Halo really needs to go to explain Forge

Halo 5 also gave us War Games balencing which means custom games are also explained away.

TLDR: The Forge Monitor is nothing special. At most its used as an avatar for people Forging maps in the Cartographer Initiative

[obsidian thistle]

By all means someone could be a flying timmy. (We know the Timmy helmet in Halo 5 is result of a War Games guy going a lil whacky and putting in a fake helmet*)

(*This also explains away armor in War Games, so if you see someone wearing Ilsa Zanes set for example, you arnt facing her but someone who is simulated in her set/pieces)

[stoic hamlet]

Interestingly, from her mention in the story, she’s not technically wearing specially made armour, just modified armour.

There’s no reason for example you couldn’t see doubles and etc of her suit, because it’s not hand-crafted

But yeah. It’s all a simulation.

[empty bloom]

It's all been a sim since 4, even Infinite is a Wargame sim.

It's the whole explanation behind the BTB maps and such.

[stoic hamlet]

Yup.

It does let us known the Coral Sea survived the events of Ghosts of Onyx, which is neat.

(They provided the topographical data for the H2A MP maps.)

[obsidian thistle]

I just used Ilsa Zane as an example

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah fair.

[carmine sleet]

I remember someone ages ago joking about Jun watching a wargames sim and seeing a Spartan team decked out in Noble Team's armour

[stoic hamlet]

Spartans aren’t the sentimental type, really.

It’d be like getting upset that a Spartan II or IV is wearing Mirage.

Or a Spartan III or IV is wearing Mark IV. It’s just a suit of armour. It has no real value to them.

They’re supposed to change their armour during every mission, as well.

[obsidian thistle]

I reason that at least in Halo 5 they may all actually be wearing Athlon or a customised armor set like Challenger.

[stoic hamlet]

In terms of like, reality? Yeah, I could see that.

[carmine sleet]

So long as I can have cat ears on my armour

[obsidian thistle]

I actually dont think those are canon

Given they are a 343i manufacturer item

Not that it stops anyone using them for fun.

[carmine sleet]

Yeah... I know they're not canon. I just think they're a purrfect addition to my Spartan's armour

[dusk jetty]

Correct me if I’m wrong, I don’t of the 343 manufactured items aren’t canon though

[stoic hamlet]

In infinite that’s correct.

But previously they were canon

So it’s weird.

[carmine sleet]

Good ol' Fotus

[dusk jetty]

Fotus can cook for me anytime

[patent patio]

Le unicorn helmet

[zenith dew]

Does arbiter speak actual English to chief and the other humans through halo 2 - 5 or is that the technology translating to English

[wispy pewter]

not english because they can't pronounce certain english words

like Phillips

[stoic hamlet]

They can speak English, some Sangheili were ordered to learn,

[obsidian thistle]

There is three layers to this discussion

1. Some groups in the Covenant were ordered to learn. (Like what EternalCanadia said)
2. Translation software exists.
3. Often its done for our benefit. A lotta Halo 2 is likely spoken in the native Sangheili dialects when no humans are around. (IE gameplay)

Halo 4 did this the best in my opinion. Actually having Juls Covenant speak Sangheili when it made sense.

But Halo 2 hit hard cause we could understand what was being said without subtitles.

Someday if Halo Reachs Sangheili is cracked I may put a hand in seeing if Halo 2s opening can be translated back to native Sangheili.

[sonic lagoon]

Did the UNSC ever declare war on the Moas?

/pest control.

Or the Gutas?

[obsidian thistle]

There was a Emu War

[stoic hamlet]

That’s real, by the way.

It’s not a joke.

(Well…)

[obsidian thistle]

🫡 I salute the fallen Emus as Spartan and us alike likely just skip past the Moa now.

(And yes I know)

[stoic hamlet]

🫡

[obsidian thistle]

A part of me kinda wants to put that on the Wiki. But I think Bacon and co will throw me in lore jail if I did

[dusk jetty]

Oh look, a Dilophosaurus

[carmine sleet]

A war more should learn about for sure

[marble lion]

The Emu War. It started November 2nd of 1932 and ended one month later December 10th. It is one of the few oddest or weirdest military operations.

[sonic lagoon]

Do Moas eat meat? 🥩

[obsidian thistle]

They eat bugs and seeds it seems

Based on animations from Reach

[slim thorn]

What are chances of Roland stay behind on UNSC Infinity?

[high elbow]

Pretty good chances id guess. For a ship that size, Roland needs to stay on board all the time I’d think, specifically if it’s been heavily damaged

[stoic hamlet]

Smart AI don’t really leave the ships they’re assigned to.

But then, Smart AI are rarely actually aboard ships anyways.

With the Created Crisis, it’s even less likely.

[carmine sleet]

Ever think about how Halo 5 gave us a variant of Sentinel that we've not actually seen yet via the lore surrounding the Sentinel Beam that got added to the game?

I hope we see a Safeguard Sentinel one day

[stoic hamlet]

The same thing happened with Ghosts of Onyx, technically. We’ve not seen those Sentinals in game yet.

(Probably because people would get mad and ragequit)

[carmine sleet]

They should add them in because that would be funny

Though now I have to wonder, could the Onyx Sentinels be Safeguard Sentinels? Or are their weapons too different to make that a possibility (Been a while since I read GoO)

[obsidian thistle]

Last I saw Roland was still present circa September 2559

Which is yes before Halo Infinite

But still notable

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah.

It’s hard to say if he was actually doing anything though, or was more akin to a ghost in the machine.

[civic compass]

Should I be reading Retribution before Divine Wind?

[orchid kettle]

Yes. Retribution is essentially the second entry in the Veta Lopis saga, and Divine Wind is the 3rd/4th

she shows up a bit in Shadows of Reach so you could argue you need to read that before Divine Wind as well

whoops, my brain don't work so good

[civic compass]

I have read Shadows of Reach. So Retribution, then Divine Wind. Thanks!

[versed helm]

So I just got shadows of reach and read about music in the first chapter which made me wonder, what is the music like in the halo series

[carmine sleet]

Well we know that all the music that exists in the real world exists in Halo

There's also Flip music, a genre enjoyed by Johnson

Which is a decendant of heavy metal

And you can hear in Combat Evolved too thanks to Jenkin's helmet cam

[versed helm]

So pretty much not many genres expanded from now to the events of halo

Or they haven’t had much new genres

[unique rune]

Inventing new music genres has generally not been the priority of the sci-fi space shooter's lore

[versed helm]

Well yeah it just caught my eye and I was curious

[unique rune]

Realistically I'm sure there's more than the ones we've seen considering humanity's spent over five centuries years spread across a bunch of different solar systems but no one's ever really gotten into the finer details of that

[carmine sleet]

Aye, it's not like Star Wars where it's got a wider scope and invented a genre of music called [Redacted because it's a bad word]

[unique rune]

is it really even a new genre when it's just jazz spelled wrong

[carmine sleet]

Fair point

[versed helm]

I see, it would be cool to see like the music genres and stuff in it, like what the Spartans or marines listen to

[unique rune]

It's implied at one point that Kelly-087 listens to 1970s rock. That's pretty much about as specific as it's ever gotten.

[versed helm]

Yeah that’s where I brought up my question

[carmine sleet]

If only they were allowed to actually have her listening to Killer Queen like originally intended

[versed helm]

I think it’s cool to see the more human side of them

Even if they’re big killers

[eager arrow]

Thats a fun detail with Kelly, and i also imagine her a big Queen fan. Specifically, Fat Bottomed Girls

[versed helm]

I sorta went with AC/DC

[eager arrow]

oh yeah, they're paving the highway to hell with covies

[versed helm]

I could see that 100%

[bronze prawn]

I think Chief later recalls that she was also listening to "another one bites the dust"

I prefer killer queen but everyone has their own tastes

[wispy pewter]

23rd century pop

[sweet ledge]

You mean the classic rock music in guilty spark 343i

[carmine sleet]

We already talked about the Flip music Johnson listened to in CE

[gusty star]

ODSTs listen to smooth jazz😏

[sonic lagoon]

What examples of mutinies have occurred in Halo?

[carmine sleet]

The Great Schism

[sonic lagoon]

What are largest examples of infighting and fragging?

[carmine sleet]

The Great Schism. That is quite literally the Covenant tearing itself apart

[sonic lagoon]

Any others? I remember the Tartarus shot a grunt, Halo wars arbiter threw an elite to the ground, John punched some ODSTs, jackals under sesa got attacked by elites to protect 343 guilty spark, there was a battle between truth and regret forces (3 way battle by the way), and maybe some others.

Oh and half jaw threw a San Shyuum to the ground in Infinite Succor.

[gusty star]

Most of those aren’t mutinies, they’re just friendly fire

[carmine sleet]

John killing those ODSTs wasn't an intentional act as well

He didn't know how strong he was given he had just been augmented

[sonic lagoon]

On their part it was though.

[carmine sleet]

And the ODSTs themselves didn't know who he was

[sonic lagoon]

Yeah.

[carmine sleet]

Being killed by someone by accident doesn't somehow make it intentional that the person was trying to kill you

[sonic lagoon]

Didn’t they instigate attacking him, so John had to act in self defense?

[sonic lagoon]

Not all mutinies but fragging.

[carmine sleet]

That doesn't mean Chief intentionally killed them

[sonic lagoon]

Yeah but it’s still fighting.

[carmine sleet]

It's like how in Andor when Andor accidentally kills one of the corpos that jumped him. He didn't intend to kill the guy

[sonic lagoon]

Oh, so more fog of war.

[carmine sleet]

I never said it wasn't a fight, I said Chief didn't intend to kill any of them

Like, you can have a fight without intent to kill

And fights like that still have the risk of someone dying

[sonic lagoon]

Yeah but factionally it is still infighting.

Or as said friendly fire.

[carmine sleet]

The fight was organised, it wasn't just Chief randomly punching ODSTs

[sonic lagoon]

Oh ok.

[carmine sleet]

And while it is likely the situation was orchestrated by ONI, I doubt they were expecting Chief to kill any of them, given that they're all on the same side

[sonic lagoon]

That totally reminds of us experiments of service men, where testing lead to injury and death, like the radiation experiments.

[carmine sleet]

So trying to use Chief killing those ODSTs as an example of infighting or mutiny is objectively wrong

The Great Schism does count because it is the Elites being betrayed by the leaders of the Covenant and in turn fighting back when the Brutes attempt to kill them

[sweet ledge]

Are you guys talking about fall of reach?

[carmine sleet]

The novel, yes

[stoic hamlet]

A mutiny would be John and the ODST’s disobeying the order. But even then I wouldn’t really call that mutiny.

[carmine sleet]

Aye. That'd just be them not wanting to fight

[versed helm]

Pretty sure John and the ODSTs was an orchestrated event

[carmine sleet]

I did mention that ONI likely orchestrated it, yes

[versed helm]

Aye, just read that text. Apologies

I will say, though, it was a bit WH40K-esque, sacrificing ODSTs just to test something. Even if it was just a few

[carmine sleet]

See, I don't think that they planned for that to happen. ONI wanted to see how good John is in a fight, I doubt they wanted him to kill anyone in that fight, regardless of if he intended to do so or not

[orchid kettle]

Fall of Reach specifically seems to have been written with the idea that the UNSC was cartoonishly evil in a way John wasn't really equipped to understand as a 14 year old that grew up in the system

John is given permission to "neutralize" the ODSTs again during the Mark V training exercise, and Cortana's surprise at Chief sparing their lives naturally implies the intention was for the Spartan to massacre them. All for the sake of proving what the Mark V could do.

There's also of course the part where as 8 year olds, the II kids run into some shady men out of uniform who are all way too eager to brutalize children. John reasons they must be outsiders, for Mendez and his men would never actually try to harm them! Only for us to cut to John in Mendez's office, where Mendez confirms that the child beaters were in fact, his men, and he's real mad that John and his friends attacked them.

There's some other lil moments too like Halsey and Mendez talking about how some trainers died in hand to hand combat, but it only makes them excited at the Spartans' incredible killing potential. Or how a guy gets turned into a pretzel in the initial MJOLNIR testing.

Part of me thinks that Nylund was going for a WH40K kinda angle with the UNSC at first, until somebody probably told him they kinda needed to be the good guys.