lore-and-universe

[patent patio]

Low key life has kinda fallen off these days :((

[meager pier]

It sad to then see Bungie shred his draft of Destiny’s story

[patent patio]

It was so bad there wasn't even a story

[empty bloom]

That's not really a defense lmao

[patent patio]

I thought Destiny peaked pretty good with Forsaken tbh

[ripe patio]

Destiny's story was pretty dog day 1. "I could tell you about the stuff that happend before, the great wars, but those are just kids stories now"; okay man, cool, guess I don't care

[empty bloom]

Even having his suggestions taken seriously was bad.

[patent patio]

Also why can't Spartans handle the recoil of guns

[ripe patio]

Gameplay?

[empty bloom]

It's funny that I was more heavily invested in Anthem's story than Destiny's.

[patent patio]

It must be rly bad for marines

I thought I was a super soldier

[ripe patio]

Gameplay reasons don't need lore justifications

[patent patio]

I know I joking :))

[empty bloom]

Something about Anthem's world state was way more intriguing.

[patent patio]

It's just kinda funny to think about

Wait I just realized there's no timeout message thingamabob in this channel

[empty bloom]

Yeah, usually it's because the angry yappers stay out

[hot zodiac]

If I was writing a defense I would say that I found Halo 3's deaths really effective and prefer bringing those characters back in Halo 3

It was for the record.

[meager pier]

That was part of Destiny’s problem, until towards and at the end of the saga, we were thrown into the universe at the most boring time

[empty bloom]

I considered doing a full rewrite of 3 tbh.

Boredom on deployments is a hell of a drug.

[patent patio]

Another problem with Destiny Lore was that you had to dig rly deep to understand what was going on or who were these factions

[ripe patio]

There are dozens of us!

[patent patio]

If h3 got a rewrite, make it so that we see more human and elite interactions is 1 thing

[ripe patio]

"Why did the covenant ships just let the longswords and frigates attack the keyship?"
"WHY did the UNSC attack the keyship instead of the covenant ships?"
"WHY DID ATTACKING THE KEYSHIP ACTIVATE THE PORTAL?!"

[empty bloom]

Make dual perspective campaigns a new Halo 'thing'

I've loved it every time it's happened

[ripe patio]

always bothered me, and felt like it invalided the entire "One final effort" build up that the previous missions set up

[patent patio]

Love One Final Effort. It's a peak mission in terms of gameplay

[empty bloom]

Honestly, the front end of 3 needed like, four or five more missions. But that's a common Halo problem.

[hot zodiac]

I've had the feeling that if they had introduced a new Brute Chieftan to follow, the audience of today would like it more

[hot zodiac]

But this comment just reinforces that a big problem is others simply not understanding the story

[patent patio]

Or if Tartarus just had lived a bit longer

[empty bloom]

It's a weak presentation overall but yeah the keyship was gonna turn kn regardless

[carmine sleet]

Something I think would make sense is for Arbiter to have brought a task force of Elites to help out on Earth while the battle there was still going. The player 3 and 4 Elites would've been part of it alongside volunteers who chose to help Arbiter with killing Truth

[empty bloom]

Arbiter campaign

[patent patio]

It's one of h2 best aspects

[carmine sleet]

Oh they would absolutely be featured there prominently

[empty bloom]

It's the part of Halo 2 I actually like more because it's frankly a better story than Chief's half.

[ripe patio]

Yeah. I get that. Still doesn't excuse the Covenant ships allowing the UNSC to attack one of their holiest ships, and then just pieceing out and going through the portal after without returning fire

[carmine sleet]

Like sure, they'd also appear in Chief's campaign too but you only get some of them

[empty bloom]

Chief's half of Halo 2 is mostly just things happening to him while he has little to no actual agency, it's kinda funny.

The exception is the bomb, and that's about it

Arbiter makes a good amount of decisions IMO.

[meager pier]

And punching an elderly man in a wheel chair

[patent patio]

I forgot 😄

[empty bloom]

That one was just his op lmao

I wouldn't call that really agency

[carmine sleet]

Also Arbiter is just a really compelling character from the get go. Like, you're playing as the commander of the Covenant who you beat in Combat Evolved, who is being punished for the actions the player did in Combat Evolved

[empty bloom]

Like, he had no real say in how the op went down.

[patent patio]

But he had to go ham on him instead of just shooting the guy

[empty bloom]

I can drop the hottest take I've had since saying Halo 5 has an incredibly underrated story.

Halo 4's story should be maligned for the utter power creep that happens to Chief.

[patent patio]

If h5 actually went it's story that the commercials showed :p

[empty bloom]

I'd have hated it.

[patent patio]

We barely play Chief in 5 for crying out loud

[empty bloom]

Vehemently.

I was actually more excited for 5 when I was told it didn't follow the stupid commercials.

[patent patio]

And like why does the rest of Osiris team just hold back when Locke was fighting Chief

They just stood there :l

[carmine sleet]

I will always maintain that Fred, Kelly and Linda should've been working alongside Osiris to fine where Chief had go

[empty bloom]

They were held back by a platform being too far from them to get to, and Blue team kinda were the ones who actually stood back lmao

[patent patio]

That would've been more interesting

Yeah but Osiris just stood there. Like watching the fight happened for no reason

[empty bloom]

I mean, what are they gonna do? Shoot?

[carmine sleet]

It just doesn't make sense for them to act like how they did and follow Chief when they even expressed doubts about him to each other

[patent patio]

Also more interactions between the 2 teams and it's members

[empty bloom]

You likely would've saw that in Infinite's original story tbh

There's concept art of things like Kelly backing up Arby while they're negotiating with some humans in desert kit.

[patent patio]

But we didn't sadly 😔

[empty bloom]

I'm honestly convinced the reason that Halo Infinite dropped the AI plot like a vat of acid was because of Microsoft's AI initiatives instead of any inherent fan feedback

[patent patio]

Probably

[empty bloom]

Like the timing makes sense

[meager pier]

For Halo 7, I hope they bring back another playable character in the campaign
I could see it being Jega (he prolly survived), though it’d be cool to play as a Brute

[empty bloom]

Wouldn't mind playing as Locke again.

[carmine sleet]

Jega campaign where it's him just hunting down Chief

[patent patio]

Is Locke still hated hugely by the community?

[empty bloom]

For dumb reasons lmao

[patent patio]

Like?

[ripe patio]

Ai uprising is also not exactly a novel story idea.

Fighting robots is also not the most exciting idea for a shooter

[empty bloom]

It isn't, but everything surrounding it was actually pretty unique by fictional AI standards.

Like, AI uprisings in fiction don't usually involve them commandeering the weaponry of an ancient. Long-dead race, or having a motive that is actually benevolent in intention.

Usually it's better homebrew tech and kill all humans.

[carmine sleet]

Outside of the obvious reason that certain people hate on him for, some people seem to think he is still ONI and was under orders to execute Chief in Halo 5, both of which aren't true yet are still being used as reasons to hate on Locke

[empty bloom]

Locke's a pretty boring character who is duty bound, stoic, and largely goal oriented pro instead of a showboat.

Which is literally exactly what people wanted Spartan IVs to be after Halo 4.

[carmine sleet]

They should've kept the compassionate side he had in Nightfall. Like, his whole thing in that is he's masquerading as a cold ONI agent but in reality he's someone who does actually care about helping people

[empty bloom]

I mean, he does, it's just not quite as prominent.

[ripe patio]

The entire plot of "Mr Chief is AWOL, bring him back at all costs" is not a super powerful motivator to root for the people going after him.
I kinda understand why they didn't have Chief be responsible for a mass casualty event (or at least appear that way to the brass) as a reason to go after him.
The entire purpose of Osiris following blue team just felt... pointless?

[carmine sleet]

It should've been more prominent!!!

[empty bloom]

I wouldn't say pointless, but fluffing it up as this big 'showdown' was a really, staggeringly bad, call. Largely for the same reasons you outline.

[ripe patio]

As the player who gets first hand experience of what chief and blue team are doing, and why, it felt profoundly "unimportant" to me

[empty bloom]

Like, with the JD/Del choice in Gears 5, you can make a pretty solid argument for both characters. But Locke wasn't going to win on a fan level from the outset in 5.

(Considering the amount of people who say that they'd literally let Chief get away with mass murder when defending his actions in 5, I doubt Chief popping a planet would get people to stop rooting for him)

As a narrative, Osiris' mission does flesh out the universe and make a lot of sense, but it really should've been handled as two separate campaigns where you beat one then the other.

Raises stakes.

[meager pier]

Would you like playing as Atriox in Halo 7 or think he’d be too OP?

[unique rune]

at this point I don’t really care who we play as I just want 343 to stick with something for once

[meager pier]

Really hope they’ve learned from dropping storylines, stick with something for once

[ripe patio]

I would be quite surprised if Infinite's storyline continues, given the critical reception.

[meager pier]

Infinite’s campaign and plot were fairly well received, so I sure hope they go “let’s actually continue this for once”

Cause rn, 343’s sequels really feel like an anthology with very loose thematic connections, rather than a single, continuous narrative

[patent patio]

That's probably why they resolved everything from h5 offscreen

Hopefully the Endless are fun to fight unlike Prometheans in 4

[empty bloom]

They... Kinda haven't?

[patent patio]

Well the main points kinda have. Cortana is dead as far we know so no more Guardians

If the AI uprising was such a big deal now, I'm pretty sure the audio logs would've mentioned it

[meager pier]

If the Endless are dropped off-screen or right out the gate in Halo 7, it’ll feel pretty pointless to be invested at that point

[patent patio]

And Offensive Bias too

But I wonder how they're gonna off with the Endless

They said they were worse than flood which is stupid

The flood was such a threat, the forerunner had to wipe out an entire galaxy and themselves in it to win

The way they were introduced too was kinda weird. Your first real encounter with skimmers happens right after the Endless are mentioned

So

It makes you think that the skimmers are part of the Endless but they're not

[stoic hamlet]

I mean, something can be worse than something else for different reasons.

The Spanish Flu killed more people than WW1, but many consider WW1 to be worse.

[meager pier]

This is an issue of 343 I have, show, don’t tell

Show us the danger of the Endless rather than telling us how dangerous they are

[stoic hamlet]

I mean IMO they have shown us pretty clearly.

And no, it’s not that they can survive Halo.

It’s that they’re not reseeded. They retain their knowledge.

It’s like playing a strategy game, and everyone starts at square one… but they’ve completed their tech tree.

Even if they’re not evil, that’s still an incredible danger to everyone else.

[meager pier]

@stoic hamlet I also suspect the Forerunners reacted with such fear to them because they discovered the Endless are connected to the Precursors, whether a form of them or follower of them

[patent patio]

Well yknow. WW1 was brutal. Many people were left with PTSD and the physical or mental scarring of war

[wispy pewter]

I'm pretty sure they started washing their hands after the Spanish flu

[meager pier]

How do you hope they handle Offensive Bias, since there’s a chance he’s entering the picture

[hexed yew]

Best bet is he is dead

Offensive bias if not mendicant bias helped the flood

Gained all access and knowledge from that one ai

So it’s tough to say what the UNSC would do with it if not UDE him for another ship like the infinity

[fair hazel]

I don't think he's dead

[carmine sleet]

I would assume Offensive Bias is in storage somewhere

But then that would beg the question of where?

Like, I doubt that they're at the Ark since surely if they were there, they'd have been activated during Halo 3 to deal with the Flood

[unique rune]

The Forerunners moved him to a USB stick they got for free at Micro Center and lost track of it shortly after

[carmine sleet]

Did they check down the back of the cosmic couch?

[gusty star]

He’s def at Zeta Halo somewhere

[carmine sleet]

So that's where the cosmic couch is...

[dense quest]

if they move away from zeta halo for the next halo game istg

[high elbow]

I would be very upset if Zeta was abandoned for the next major title. I like zeta halo. I’d love to see more environments on the ring that aren’t. Idk, grassy with trees and rocks. Gimme some snowy areas. Or a wetland that grunts are trying to prevent the local government from paving over. Idk

[unique rune]

Can't wait for the next game to drop everything from Infinite so we can go back to Reach for more nostalgia pandering

[high elbow]

Don’t jinx it.
I’d be willing to go back to reach in a spin off title or DLC.

[carmine sleet]

If we were going to go back to Reach in a game, it would've been for one of the cloned Halsey brains. But we got that in a novel instead

[stoic hamlet]

And IMO we were better for it.

[carmine sleet]

Aye

[stoic hamlet]

Shadows of Reach deserved to be a novel, rather than a game. It was a spiritual successor to Nylund’s books, not Bungie’s game.

[carmine sleet]

Yeah

And honestly, I don't think a return to Reach like that would've worked as a full game

Maybe as a level or two, but then you wouldn't get some of the stuff we did get in the novel

[stoic hamlet]

It’s why Contact Harvest and Ghosts of Onyx and even First Strike wouldn’t work as games.

Halo’s games just don’t allow those quiet moments with characters, and you lose out on their internal thoughts.

Like, in Contact Harvest there’s only really six firefights in the entire book, and only three involve more than 10 enemies for Johnson and co.

And one of them is a training exercise where the point of the scene is Johnson’s disgust at how easily he can kill humans.

The other has only one human casualty and no Jiralhanae are killed, only a few unggoy.

Shadows of Reach is more about Blue Team’s return and what it means emotionally, not about fighting the banished

[carmine sleet]

Aye. And while sure, a Spartan team descending into an abandoned ONI facility while fighting aliens is a cool idea, that's just not the main focus of the story

That being said, if 343i want to do a level in a future game that is just Spartans raiding an abandoned facility under the surface of a glassed planet, sign me up

[meager pier]

I think we should ofc return to Zeta Halo, but shouldn’t remain there for too long

Like we leave at the end of Halo 7

If we stick around, it’ll make the conflict feel a little too small and isolated

[carmine sleet]

Definitely need to leave it for sure

Like maybe we chase after the freed Endless or something

[dense quest]

yeah. i just feel like there's so much wasted potential in infinite.

[meager pier]

Definitely hope it’s explored in Halo 7

One of my issues with Infinite was that, they didn’t explore the history of Zeta Halo

The game could’ve been set on any of the Halos

[dense quest]

agreed

[meager pier]

Imagine audio logs or terminals (text or video) of the experiments that went on there and all the other horrors

[fair hazel]

I do agree that the setting wasn't utilized well

There weren't enough specifically unique zeta halo elements which really made an impact and yes terminals by the squence group would have been amazing to depict it's unique history

[meager pier]

With the Endless likely a form of the Precursors, here's hoping some of that history comes into play next time around

Some even speculate that Zeta Halo may have actually been partially built by the Precursors, not the Forerunners

[high elbow]

I think a survival title on Zeta would be interesting. Fighting off local wildlife and Banished patrols.

[meager pier]

Fighting off these fellows lol https://halo.wiki.gallery/images/7/76/HINF_Space_Rhino_Render_3.jpg

[high elbow]

Fighting off? No. I want to tame one and ram head first into a ghost or hunter. Either the hunter dies or my rhino collapses like an accordion

[meager pier]

https://tenor.com/view/dixie-dixie-kong-donkey-kong-dk-barrel-blast-rambi-gif-18502854

[visual orbit]

Remember, the hunters are allergic to magnum rounds

So it’ll be easy to take em down

[sonic lagoon]

Why didn’t the covenant try to convert humanity?

[limpid mulch]

Why can’t 343 be more like bungie

[visual orbit]

The elites wanted to, the prophets realized that the humans were the only beings that could operate forerunner technology, which would dismantle their faith

[carmine sleet]

Because 343 Guilty Spark is a fictional character and a singular individual, Bungie is a real world game studio made up of quite a few people and is currently dealing with allot of bad press due to incompetent upper management

[sonic lagoon]

Also is the covenant a polytheistic deist religion?

[thorn ember]

Nostalgia is blinding. It leaves you paralyzed and dumbstruck.

[carmine sleet]

Indeed

Doesn't help much of current day culture is so based on nostalgia

That's not to say nostalgia is terrible and nobody should ever evoke feelings of it ever again, it's just new fresh ideas also need to be cultivated

[ripe patio]

The hyper commercialization of video gaming, and highly advertised games that launched in broken states lends some validity to the Nostalgic Era

But yeah, Covenant viewed Humans as a threat to their entire power structure that kept the other species subservient unified in their faith

[patent patio]

To be specific old Bungie. Old bungie made some good games but they had their flaws too

They pretty much caused a studio to shut down with HW1

[obsidian thistle]

No

[patent patio]

Oh that's wrong? My bad

[obsidian thistle]

Ensemble had a lotta reasons to be shut down. As unfortunate and rubbish as it was.

[patent patio]

Hmm alr i see

[obsidian thistle]

Bungie was not part of it, but Employees who were vocal at the time didnt have nice things to say about Halo Wars 1.

[patent patio]

Alr hm

[obsidian thistle]

Bungie also refused to share stuff.

(I can cite that if anyone asks)

[patent patio]

Totally agree, as much I love some remakes, Re2 and 4, Dead space. It's nice to see things move on with fresh new ideas

But I can't lie, those were pretty good games

[thorn ember]

Why doesn't it surprise me?

[sonic lagoon]

Are the banished a militant atheist state?

[thorn ember]

Pirates and mercenaries mainly.

[patent patio]

Do those mercenaries get payed to work or are they loyal to Atriox

[thorn ember]

Some are loyal, others are bound by contract, and there are those who do get paid.

[meager pier]

At least Joe was able to help out a bit, he seemed more open to others working on Halo

[thorn ember]

Atriox will take anyone into the banished.

As I mentioned earlier before, the Banished will be nuisance for future campaigns since the antagonistic factions need an army.

[patent patio]

Humans joining the Banished feels like it should've been introduced on a grander scale instead of just saying, "hey humans are now in the Banished"

[faint cove]

I agree

I feel like. I know this will be ignored or catch flak. Either way. But the lore snippets we have been getting lately seem to not have as much. Uhm. How to say it in business class terms...

It doesn't have as much merit to their originality.

[meager pier]

Can I join? I can start open mic night on Fridays

[patent patio]

Like if you look at Locke only though halo 5, he's a boring character, but once you get into the lore and other media

He's actually kind of interesting but yeah not a good way

[thorn ember]

True. Humans in the banished are more into Intel gathering than foot soldiers. Though I wouldn't mind fighting the Banished Spartan or something of that caliber in future games.

[patent patio]

If we get to fight Spartans and humans I have two wishes

This is the perfect way to bring back fightable UNSC vehicles

And

[faint cove]

YES

[patent patio]

They force you to play more tactically unlike other forces. This means you have to start flanking more and being stealthy with them given their more tactical nature

[faint cove]

Yeah if we are fighting spartans

It better not be like fighting alongside halo 4 spartans

[patent patio]

Spartans should be treated as bosses

[faint cove]

cough

[patent patio]

Honestly

[faint cove]

They better have scanners

Drop shields

[meager pier]

Locke is prolly never returning to a mainline game

[patent patio]

This is the first real time your facing an enemy that's actually equal to you

[faint cove]

Grapple

[patent patio]

My problem with Halo Infinite enemies is that they don't use equipment. 😦

[faint cove]

For real

My problem with them.

Is they aren't. Formiddable

The scariest enemy in the entire campaign is the duo brutes with the cannons

Which shouldn't be nearly as scary to deal with than the bossed hunter duo

It made no sense to me.

[patent patio]

Elites are supposed to be your equal. They can hijack and use pretty much any weapon like you can. They can drive vehicles and it would've been better if they could've used equipment

But yeah that's my point. I'm done

[stoic hamlet]

Which snippets?

[faint cove]

Just things in general since 2023's major multi update

[stoic hamlet]

From a gameplay standpoint, sure, but lore wise they’ve been solidly bodied by Spartans since the beginning.

[faint cove]

Not really lol

Lore wise

Spartans fight 2 at a time

Against guard elite.

[patent patio]

I'm talking about gameplay. I'm sorry this is lore and universe I'm out

[stoic hamlet]

Ahh, I get you.

[faint cove]

Have you ever read a halo book?

Like. Thursday war

[patent patio]

I did not mean for this turn into a whole off topic conversation.
Sorry mods

[faint cove]

Those spartans got bodied by 3 elites

A full spec ops team downed. By elites with camouflage.

There's a reason our characters in the franchise are so revered.

[high elbow]

THIS. I would LOVE to open up a door, see a health bar pop up, and see Renegade Spartan Ivy pop up. (Just as an example lol) Boss gets a mini-cutscene dropping off from a captured Falcon and fighting ensues

[faint cove]

YES straight up

[stoic hamlet]

That is… an incredibly hostile question. Let me counter:

Have you?

[faint cove]

That's some Halo 2 quality cut scenes there

[faint cove]

I have 5 novels to my left 3 movies and Dr Halsey limited edition journal from pre order halo reach

With the airlock case.

[patent patio]

Guys chill out pls

[faint cove]

Yeah. I have

[patent patio]

Like actually chill

[faint cove]

Gotcha ivy

[patent patio]

Thanks. I didn't wanna start hate 😭

[stoic hamlet]

Nah no hate! Don’t worry~

But yeah, @faint cove in pretty well all our looks at Spartans they’ve been faster and overall more tactically sound than Sangheili in the fiction, though a case could be made they’re equals in strength out of armour.

[faint cove]

Yes but typically only our character counter parts

[stoic hamlet]

From a gameplay perspective they’re intended to be “mirrors” (roughly) but that’s never held up in the lore.

[faint cove]

Lore wise countless spartn teams fall to sanghieli kill squads

There's even special squads of elites that hunt spartans. It's their thing ^-^

[patent patio]

But the question is this. How are elites compared to spartan 2s against 3s and 4s

[faint cove]

Spartan 2 spartans were the best ever made.

Hands down augment wise they were untouchable

[stoic hamlet]

Hmm? Most of our scenes featuring nameless Spartans have them preform so well Covenant forces need to use air support and orbital strikes, such as in Ghosts of Onyx.

[faint cove]

Most spartan 2 subjects died by the ages of q6 before completion

16*

Most deaths recorded at augmentation phase

[patent patio]

Also doesn't this question depend on the elites' skill? Like a minor to a spec ops

[faint cove]

Exactly.

Minor elites are a breeze. I did specify

Guards and blades men

[patent patio]

Like I see a minor getting clapped but a ultra would take more effort

[faint cove]

That's why I used the Thursday war for reference

It was a highly trained spartan team

Against a highly trained delite team

The elites came victorious with no more toys than active camo and swords

The spartans brought mini nukes. Remote detonators

The works.

[stoic hamlet]

Ehhh, we haven’t seen many Spartan versus Honor Guards, and our only scene with Silent Shadow had them wait in ambush then strike when Roland and Jonah thought the area was clear.

[faint cove]

And were even using jight to their advantage.

Oh you mean ohhh

Game wise gotcha

I meant LORE wise not just cut scene wise

[stoic hamlet]

I’m referring to the lore.

The Silent Shadow scored no kills on any Spartan II’s in Silent Storm.

They technically killed only three Spartan III’s that we know of, from Headhunters, and against both Red Team and Cal, Honor guards were slaughtered.

[faint cove]

That's a few moments

Vs the honest to god.

Countless. Spartan teams lore wise on files

That were bodied by sanghieli alone.

As a unsc lover all round

I wanna say our spartans are better

[stoic hamlet]

Such as? Like, I’m trying to think of examples that don’t have extenuating circumstances.

[faint cove]

But if that was the case

John wouldn't have been the last standing for 2 halos.

[stoic hamlet]

I mean, he wasn’t.

[faint cove]

Literally go read the Thursday war

It's multiple stories

[stoic hamlet]

He was just the only one in the area.

[faint cove]

Of unsc teams falling to normal circumstances

[stoic hamlet]

I’m not at my books atm. Mind posting an excerpt?

[faint cove]

Literally the last standing worth focusing on.

Which calls to show that the other spartans weren't even worth showing

Like I said. As a unsc boy all around I wanna say our spartans are better but as ivy stated

A zealot is a problem

Quite a big one.

[stoic hamlet]

That’s pedantic, and irrelevant to the situation.

The question/discussion is about whether Sangheili are individually equal to Spartans, they’ve been shown on almost every occasion to be sorely lacking.

[faint cove]

Tack on any special training onto of a zealot or a spec ops classed elite it's an issue.

Yes 343 elites lack. They are slow.

Unagile. And easy to take down.

Halo 5 spec ops elites were a joke

[empty bloom]

Hey chat what's going o-

[faint cove]

Vaduum? A laughing stock.

[empty bloom]

Oh.

[faint cove]

Lore wise elites are formidable ^-^

[empty bloom]

Someone's struggling to intuit an argument against Eternal.

Again.

That's cute.

[faint cove]

Oh no struggle here

^-^

[empty bloom]

For him, no, lmao

Elites get roflstomped by Spartans, what's to get

[faint cove]

You can believe that lmao

Yes like ivy said a minor elite gets bodied

But time and time again we have higher ranked elites that are killers. Like what?

[empty bloom]

and Thel was a fool when he thought he'd draw with a Gray Team II.

[patent patio]

I'm not a credible source btw

[stoic hamlet]

We’ve seen up to Zealots get slaughtered.

[faint cove]

If elites were so ez to body then the unsc would've swept them before brutes took over the honor guard

[empty bloom]

And even Thel outright admitted Vale was likely a better fighter than he was.

[patent patio]

Who's ever right

[faint cove]

Vale spent months on elite cruisers

[empty bloom]

By appointing her as his combatant in Outcasts.

Locke took down Jul in the same way Jul got bodied by Naomi.

Locke just had the mission of stabbing him in his stupid torso.

Instead of taking him alive.

[stoic hamlet]

The issue was with ship to ship combat, not ground engagements. It doesn’t matter how good you are in a foxhole of you get glassed from orbit or lose all your ships in a single engagement.

[faint cove]

Yeah I just agreed that 343 halo 5 elites are ez

[patent patio]

That was stupid btw. An entire character built up in Spartans ops just to die in a cutscene in the 1st mission

[faint cove]

Why would you use that story as refeerence

[empty bloom]

Well, the Gray Team one was Bungie.

And they're the same elites lmao

Elites weren't that strong even in Bungie's day. The IIIs tore them apart without fully powered armor.

Specifically breaking, snapping, twisting wrists and disarming them.

These were A's and B's, too.

Not injured G's.

[unique rune]

...Are you aware that it is possible for Sangheili to on average be more capable than normal humans while still being less capable than Spartans that the UNSC never had more than ~350 of at any given time?

[faint cove]

Yes but it seems as if yall are saying that elites of all ranks just get bodied

[empty bloom]

Last I checked, I'm pretty sure the ODST comic with Dutch and Romeo was also actually started before 343i took over stewardship, and it had Dutch snapping an elite minor's neck with his thighs.

[empty bloom]

I mean that's because they do

It's usually a very rare elite that doesn't

And even then they usually lose

Chief almost lost a fight to one that was basically built like a Hunter, exhausted after fighting.

Like, that one dude's an exception, not a rule.

[faint cove]

If all elites just got bodied then we would've won by halo 2

Like hoenstly.

[empty bloom]

Then you don't know how Halo works in the Halo universe.

If you think that.

[unique rune]

I can't tell if you've actually been reading any of the points being made here

[faint cove]

If all elites got bodied then we wouldn't lose multiple high end spartan teams in advancements

[empty bloom]

Which is fine, most Halo fans are utterly clueless about how the universe works, but you need to actually listen to people who know more than you.

Instead of just going at this like a binary.

Because

It isn't a binary

[faint cove]

I'm not clueless lmfao xD I've been reading halo lore for like.

20 years

[empty bloom]

Apparently not lmao

[faint cove]

I'm a fanatic.

[empty bloom]

Hardly.

[unique rune]

Sure doesn't sound like it

[patent patio]

Now I feel elites are just slobs :((

No real threat ig

[faint cove]

I just think in my time reading and learning that elites. Nit minors onviously

Don't just get bodied

When I say something gets bodied

It's a one tap to the face

Like a grunt

That's getting bodied

[empty bloom]

Even grunts don't always die that way.

Spartans tend to die to the same thing that kills real life special forces; Concentrated and directed fire specifically targeting their position until they die.

That's how elites, who get 'bodied' in a one on one, win against Spartans.

Spartans lose in protracted defensive engagements against determined and numerous opponents.

This is proven again, and again, and again, and again in universe.

It's literally foundational canon.

[faint cove]

Yes because they aren't good defensive units. They are amazing offensive tactical units. Fast agile. Go go. George and what's his face from like.. 2009 were the slowest spartans ever. Good for some defense but even then.

[unique rune]

Keep in mind that there were never more than like 380 Spartans active at any single given time during the Human-Covenant War compared to the millions or probably even billions of Sangheili present in Covenant military service

[faint cove]

That's still alot.

Liek alot alot.

If they are truly super duper tactically crazy good. 380 should've swept.

[empty bloom]

I'd say middle millions tbh, Elite child rearing seems to have a high rate of casualties.

[faint cove]

Unless they aren't as perfect as we think and there's a few flaws yk

[empty bloom]

Not a ton you can do against orbital bombardment.

[faint cove]

Not talking about ships here though.

[empty bloom]

Too bad, foundational canon does.

Cry about it I guess, lmao

[unique rune]

A single Spartan would need to kill several hundred thousand Sangheili individually to make a dent which is pretty much a physical impossibility

[faint cove]

I'm not necessarily crying about it per say

But you can continue to be unneedingly toxic

While both other parties cooled down and are talking

💪flex it bro

[patent patio]

Damn I come back and toxicity is back

[empty bloom]

This... Really isn't toxic by my standards, lmao

[patent patio]

Oh dang someone said It alr

[faint cove]

Thanks ivy

Lmao

[patent patio]

Huh?

Oh uhm your welcome?

I just got back from making a sandwich lol

[faint cove]

The words toxic came out of someone other than me that's why I said thanks lmao

[empty bloom]

Anyways, Spartans aren't as good as people say, Elites aren't either. The primary dictator of force in the Halo universe comes from the barrel of a plasma projector.

[faint cove]

Whether you see it as toxic or not. It is lmao

[empty bloom]

K

[faint cove]

Both other parties were cool and you were being unnecessarily brash to fire it back up. But that's ok if you don't see it that way

Anyways.

What kinda sandwich you got

[empty bloom]

You'd be surprised how chill they weren't.

[faint cove]

@patent patio

[patent patio]

Hello

[faint cove]

We were pretty chill

[patent patio]

Need something?

[faint cove]

Anyways

Just asked what kinda sandwhich

[patent patio]

Oh just a PBJ sandwich. Starbucks is closed 😭

[ripe patio]

If you can attach a boarding craft to the side of a space station, why would you then not just self-destruct that boarding craft to destroy the space station?
Are the covenant just bad at this?

[faint cove]

I ran outta bread earlier and used. Bagel to make a sandwich instead of take my lazy butt to da store for a loaf of bread c:

[faint cove]

I think they have some rules like. Light suggested ones.

"That drop ship costs more than you're life." Lmao

[patent patio]

I mean wouldn't the boarding parties just get destroyed and sucked into the vacuum of space?

[faint cove]

Not with the power of plasma shields

[unique rune]

I'm pretty sure they're asking why even bother with the boarding parties at that point

[patent patio]

Why even use boarding parties, just throw a whole damn ship at a station lol

[ripe patio]

but why use a boarding party at all? They were trying to destroy the station. The bomb was about to go off with the elites guarding it

[faint cove]

I still respond. With the money thing lmao xD

[patent patio]

Probably distraction tbh

[faint cove]

I like to think the covenant are like the imperium in 40k

Everything has taxes

Everything.

[patent patio]

Like it's hard enough carrying a big bomb, but if the station is trying to gun you down while doing it, it seems pretty much impossible

[faint cove]

Why the bomb have spikes on it

And why did chief ride the bomb.

[patent patio]

Design honestly

[faint cove]

You could like. Attached a remote detonator and our powerful ai could like

[patent patio]

Never question art direction, if it's iconic, it's iconic

[faint cove]

Hit the switch

[empty bloom]

Because Halo 2 is designed with rule of cool in mind.

[patent patio]

The iconic space pickle

[empty bloom]

My least favorite way to design things.

[ripe patio]

1. Have ship capable of getting to the space station.
2. Have beeg bomb on ship.
3. Put beeg bomb on space station.
4. Leave.
5. Success

[faint cove]

Best way to design things

[patent patio]

We get it damn

[ripe patio]

All of Halo is Rule of Cool

[faint cove]

That's how 40k works!

If it's cool? Do it.

[ripe patio]

Warthog, Assault rifle, none of it make sense IRL

[faint cove]

I wish I could Gree but halo wars 2 rule was be lame

In order to win

[empty bloom]

I tolerate it more with modern 40K because... Y'know, I don't actually know why I tolerate it more.

[ripe patio]

Hornets. lol

[patent patio]

I remember how the entirety of Halo exists because the warthog

[faint cove]

I'm just not so picky I guess ?

If it looks cool DO it

[empty bloom]

I think it's because 40K actually manages to stay cool, and when Halo does it it tends to come across as cringe. Or insincere.

[patent patio]

Like?

[faint cove]

I think it's dumb that the warthog design changed

Before the release of ce

[patent patio]

I mean the rock and roll soundtrack is awesome

[faint cove]

It was meant to be a closed vehicle with a gunner seat on the passenger

And like. Fast

Stupid 50 cal turret. Murmurmur

[unique rune]

I mean, that might've worked in an RTS game, but it would've been awful balance-wise for a shooter.

[ripe patio]

40k doesn't try to make the actions of the Imperium actually make logical sense. "Here's the remains of a once great human empire" - "No, these are our holy relics that we shall bolt guns onto and ride into battle"
The UNSC is supposed to be a competent fighting force using advanced technology lol

[faint cove]

F balance!

ITS COOL!

RAHHHH

[patent patio]

Balance is needed honestly in a video game. If you don't balance, it makes guns not as fun or viable to use

[faint cove]

the game just cause is the perfect example of doing things cause it's cool or funny

[unique rune]

A lot of Halo is dictated by the need to still be an entertaining gameplay experience, and getting mowed down by a fast-moving machine gun off spawn with no way to respond isn't fun

[patent patio]

My problem with 4 and 5.

[faint cove]

Could've easily made the closed side panel

[empty bloom]

UT2004 Hellbender my beloved

[faint cove]

Destroyable

3 dmr rounds

Panels gone.

Opens the cab to be openly shot at. Boom

Balance

And the balance of its protection.

[patent patio]

Not to mention they gotta balance a sandbox for mp too

[faint cove]

Is the gun only shoots forwards

Almost 180

[unique rune]

Congratulations, you've ruined the gameplay experience for the person using the gun too.

[faint cove]

Good.

[empty bloom]

Depends on the eye of the beholder, countering instakill machine guns is some people's bread and butter in some games.

• Some wierd bird who plays Rising Storm and other similar games

[ripe patio]

'we have actual smart AI, why can't the driver control the gun turret on the jeep' - "BECAUSE THAT WON'T BE COOL, SILENCE"

[empty bloom]

What's funny is

There's a canon Warthog that did that

[faint cove]

Mmh.

[empty bloom]

It was a variant Warthog used in a Spartan training sim.

Had a CROWS style gun on the driver cage.

[faint cove]

That's reminds me of red vs blue tank

Idk.

[ripe patio]

real combat in the 2500s will ..... not be fun

[faint cove]

And it won't be this

That's for sure.

It'll be alot more digital. Or missiles. Two options

[patent patio]

Sheila?

[faint cove]

YES HEILA

[ripe patio]

"So yeah we found some aliens that were hostile, so we sent a self replicating drone swarm to consume a small planet and destroy their whole fleet"

[patent patio]

ooh Sheila. They had some pretty iconic robot characters. Lopez and Andy comes to mind

[empty bloom]

Halo canon does make use of a lot of drones these days in the background.

Lots of microdrones and such that hover and help spot and such.

[faint cove]

By 2500 by the tech we are diving over here in pnw weapon science

It'll be more like. Terror bugs?

Not self replicating but self diagnostics. Ai ran heat sync

The scariest one for me is the ai ran heat sync. Very real. Very close to being done 0.o

Asia recently finished this missile in the last ten i think.

Fires and right before it reaches the target it drops to the floor and release actual blades on impact? Nasty business.

2552 spartan or not I wouldn't enlist.

[empty bloom]

I mean, you don't "enlist" as a Spartan anyways, so.

[faint cove]

https://tenor.com/view/rainbow-spongebob-imagination-gif-11877335675029242228

[faint cove]

Very true

Well.

Halo 4 spartans do

[empty bloom]

No, they don't.

[faint cove]

It's. A JOKE jesus

[empty bloom]

IVs are chosen, they are not enlisted in the conventional sense.

[faint cove]

Halo 4 spartans are the least qualified

[empty bloom]

... Okay, I'd love to hear your ridiculous explanation for that one, lmao

[faint cove]

Augmentation wise I mean.

They just have lime. The least compared to 2s and 3s

[empty bloom]

What's funny is

What we know of what augs they get

They actually have the most

[faint cove]

Even so.

I'll always think halo 4 spartans are

lame

[empty bloom]

Even so, most people are willfully blind about how cool IVs are.

[patent patio]

I mean they're just kind of Spartans 2 and 3. I don't see no real difference

[faint cove]

Spartan 2s were taken as chuldren.

Like. Kids.

[patent patio]

I mean yeah but the end result. They're all kind of same. Same strength, speed whatever

[faint cove]

Their braisn are more easily changed. Their bodies morph to what the suit needs better over time

They are more easily wavered into lifelong servitude

except jun

[empty bloom]

That... Isn't true at all lmao

[faint cove]

cough

Yeah it is lmao. Kids are scientifically just.

[unique rune]

I can't tell if you're trying to argue that any of this is a good thing

[faint cove]

Easier to change

[empty bloom]

No, that literally isn't true at all.

Like

Canonically

[faint cove]

They're brains aren't fully built yet

[patent patio]

Like cool, these Spartans 4 are just 2s and 3s

[empty bloom]

Their bodies didn't morph to what the suit needs, lmao

The suit's just a suit, these things ain't nanosuits

[faint cove]

Well yeah they did

[patent patio]

What's new. Oh they have jet thrusters? Oh cool Chief and blue team have that too :p

[faint cove]

They grew faster

[unique rune]

Because making supersoldiers out of socially stunted indoctrinated freaks because you kidnapped/coerced them as children is

Horrifying
to say the least

[faint cove]

Than other kods

[empty bloom]

This isn't Crysis.

[faint cove]

Their muscle mass changed faster

Than other kids

[empty bloom]

Because they were drugged.

[faint cove]

And so.

[empty bloom]

And given steroids.

[faint cove]

Their bodies changed

Easier

[empty bloom]

Not by the suits, lmao

[faint cove]

Than adults would

That's all I'm saykng

[patent patio]

I mean getting trained from childhood is kind of a advantage tbh

[empty bloom]

#lore-and-universe message

Actually

This is what you were saying

:>

[faint cove]

Ok sorry if you want to cling to one thing yes I should've conveyed how their bodies changed lore

I have been saying bugs this whole time

I mentioned suits because they literally

[empty bloom]

I want to make sure you're saying the right thing instead of being wrong.

[faint cove]

Grow from children then get stuffed in one

I want you to back off me a bit lmao

XD

[faint cove]

Exactly

That's what I was saying

[empty bloom]

That historically really hasn't been the case.

[faint cove]

But you can try to tell me I was saying something else

XD

[empty bloom]

Halo has a thing for making functional agoges, but that's... really not accurate to how it works IRL.

[faint cove]

That's so dumb I can't even say that in a nicer way

Real like spartans

Like. Roma.

They were trained from a young age

Some of the world's craziest fighters were tained from a

[unique rune]

I mean, making a point badly is a pretty great way to weaken your position, so it's probably better to, y'know, get it right the first time around instead of explaining it with so many holes that you could use one to strain pasta

[empty bloom]

Real life Spartans also rapidly lost power due to the nature and elitism of their training actively crippling their military.

[faint cove]

I'm not arguing aith you anymore this is pointless

You are arguing to argue

[empty bloom]

I'm arguing because I know what I'm talking about lmao

[patent patio]

But like seriously. How are spartan 4s cool if they're just like 3s and 2s. It's kind of the same??

[empty bloom]

Cool on a potential basis, IMO.

The differences are underutilized.

[patent patio]

I guess so

[unique rune]

They're cool because they're normal and relatively well-adjusted humans with actual backgrounds?

And not just indoctrinated sociopaths who all have the same exact background and also have some special power because Nylund wrote it like that 20 years ago

[empty bloom]

I mean there's a reason Tanaka's my favorite Spartan

[patent patio]

So personality? That's sounds more like with the actual character than the actual concept of spartan 4s

Like their Armour. It just sounds like I like spartan 4s because this 1 dude was interesting and funny

[empty bloom]

I still don't really get like, how people like that.

There's a drug for everyone, I guess, but that toke ain't mine, y'know?

To me it's boring.

[patent patio]

It is what it is ig

[unique rune]

it scratches the itch for Dark And Serious And Mature Storytelling or something like that I guess

I dunno

[empty bloom]

Honestly, dark and gritty 'realism' is one of the worst things to hit storytelling since the word Orc got taken from Tolkien.

[stoic hamlet]

The issue is more people use it to try and make up for bad writing.

[empty bloom]

Most people are bad writers.

[patent patio]

Damn

[empty bloom]

You wanna get better at writing? Read other people's books.

[patent patio]

That explains alot actually

[patent patio]

I mean yeah. Inspiration and stuff

[empty bloom]

When you see the crap other people dump out there for money, you realize how easy it is.

[patent patio]

Ok

I mean I know how easy some people have it.

[unique rune]

Now that I think about it the obsession with trying to make the tone of the backstory for the Spartan-IIs like the default for Halo is just
super weird

[patent patio]

So like how should Halo go on now?

[empty bloom]

I mean I know how I'd suggest it

But like

[patent patio]

Just say it then lol

[unique rune]

Like the overall tone of the franchise is typically supposed to be hopeful, why in hell would turning humanity into a dystopia where the S-II program is the norm for the future of humanity make any sense

[empty bloom]

Eh. Like, most of my knowledge is in what they shouldn't have done (Overhype the Banished and Endless for little to no long term payoff, axing the Created)

[empty bloom]

Tbf, I have the feeling they didn't expect it to become the phenomenon it did.

They were doing that for everything.

Freaking Bloodwake got books.

[patent patio]

Hmm ok

[empty bloom]

Like there was better ways to handle this whole situation

And how to go forward is hella muddied because of what happened

The world state isn't unrecoverable, of course, it just got a lot harder to do it convincingly.

[patent patio]

I hope the next game follows Infinite instead of ditching it

Let's hope 🙏

[empty bloom]

I wouldn't mind having three way Banished-Created-UNSC battles, personally.

[patent patio]

With humans now being in the Banished for some reason. I hope UNSC vehicles are fightable

Wouldn't mind blowing up pelicans just for visual variety

[meager pier]

And if you’re writing a genre story (sci-fi & fantasy) it’s good to also read non-genre fiction (and non-fiction) in order to get inspired by as much as you can to give a possible new approach

[empty bloom]

Yeeeep

[empty bloom]

I'm honestly like 50/50 on that

I used to be super against it, but like... I guess I've chilled a lot on it.

[patent patio]

The fighting unsc vehicles or human joining Banished?

[empty bloom]

Humans in the Banished.

I don't like how it is characterized, but I don't mind the actual thing itself

[patent patio]

I just don't like it being introduced in one of those Halo infinite MOD messages

[empty bloom]

It feels like the Banished are like, the Cordis Die from Black Ops 2.

[patent patio]

I go over to the message of day and it's like Hey humans now in Banished cool

[empty bloom]

Unearned power, ridiculous origin, weird level of capability.

[patent patio]

It is what it is

[empty bloom]

(And while Black Ops 2 is fun, how the hell did Menendez do so well for himself to get literal active camo before the US did?)

[meager pier]

What other Banished characters do you think should show up in Halo 7?

[patent patio]

Atriox ofc

[meager pier]

Lol
Would be nice to see others like Voridus, Pavium, and Colony turn up as well

[wispy pewter]

this makes me wished top cruise fought the Iranian F-14s instead 😵‍💫

[meager pier]

If Zane becomes a high-ranking member of the Banished, hope we get to kill her in Halo 7

Always thought she was a lame character

[tribal trench]

Iran was an ally at the time, why would that ever happen?

[wispy pewter]

Idk man in top gun 2 the "enemy" is very obviously the Iranians judgding by their F-14 they still keep

[tribal trench]

Su-57

[tribal trench]

pretty sure it’s a fictional enemy that just has a stockpile of a bunch of different jets from different eras

cause the Iranians certainly do not have Su-57s

[empty bloom]

It's so adorable when people think Russia's latest crap pile is worth a damn

"Whoah, it can vector thrust!"

[tribal trench]

haven’t we been doing that since the F-15E

[wispy pewter]

Only one enemy country right now has US jets from the 80s.. and that is Iran

[tribal trench]

bro…

[empty bloom]

One of the prototype variants of the F-22 was designed to vector thrust.

[wispy pewter]

imagine if a UNSC group of soldiers just desert to the banished

[tribal trench]

wait the F-22 doesn’t do that?

doesn’t it have 2D thrust vector nozzles?

[empty bloom]

I think it does too yeah

[wispy pewter]

with their scorpions and jets

[empty bloom]

It does

There's a 3d vector thrust version I think?

[tribal trench]

oooh

fancy

[wispy pewter]

Yeah they don't. But they do still keep F-14As though

[empty bloom]

Oh sorry

I was thinking of an F-15B STOL/MTD

[tribal trench]

yeah let’s just ignore the fact that it is extremely snowy in this fictional country during the american summer months

[empty bloom]

Which was just a plain vector thrust prototype

[wispy pewter]

lol yeah

[tribal trench]

i think the intention was clearly for it to be in, like, not-Siberia

[empty bloom]

God is this a lovely looking plane though.

Whew.

[tribal trench]

Strangereal Siberia

[tribal trench]

i’ve seen this image before

Few planes do canards right and IMO this isn’t it

[empty bloom]

Just look at that livery

[tribal trench]

just doesn’t do it for me

[empty bloom]

Oh, it does it for me

[tribal trench]

those nozzles tho… mffgh…

[empty bloom]

I mean honestly just camouflaged planes look amazing to me

[wispy pewter]

Gaijin pls

[tribal trench]

https://tenor.com/view/brilliant-i-like-this-top-gear-jeremy-clarkson-richard-hammond-gif-18951630

[empty bloom]

Whenever I get around to painting my plane model kits I fully plan on painting them in anachronistic paint schemes.

I wanted to paint an F-22 model like a Red Tails fighter from WW2

[empty bloom]

Yeah, but... Russian...

[tribal trench]

It is inarguably the sexiest plane Russia/the Soviet Union ever designed

(soviet airframe, russian upgrades, yada yada yada)

[empty bloom]

I suppose.

I think the coolest aircraft the Soviets ever made was the Hind tbh

There's a reason I prefer the H4/H5 Pelican

[tribal trench]

Also not that it’s really relevant to the modern aerial engagement but it’s dogfighting performance is by far the best out of any 4th gen plane

i don’t even think the eurofighter or Gripen E comes close

[tribal trench]

I hate the hind, it’s so fat and ugly

[wispy pewter]

I agree!

[empty bloom]

The fat and ugly is why it's cool lmao

[wispy pewter]

I have a grudge against russian helicopters

[tribal trench]

nah it’s not even that it’s russian, the Ka-50 is cool

i just… idk, the Hind just doesn’t do it for me

[empty bloom]

Also is one of the prettiest things to ever don the UN whites.

[tribal trench]

eurocopter?

[wispy pewter]

Kamov has such a neat design though, twin rotors, and ejection seats that rocket you out

[tribal trench]

there’s a lot you can say about the UN but you can not say that they don’t have style

same with NATO

[empty bloom]

There's a reason battletech's comguard Livery is so damn solid

Painting military vehicles a stark, blank white is just so damn cool.

[tribal trench]

I have this custom livery for my Leopard 2 PL in War Thunder

[empty bloom]

It makes all the coolness front and center.

[tribal trench]

lemme see if I can find it

[empty bloom]

The kamov 50, I assume, not the 27 or 31?

[tribal trench]

i was talking about the 50 so i’d assume so

[wispy pewter]

Yeah the Ka-50

[empty bloom]

Slick tbh

[tribal trench]

click on these images, crazy aspect ratios

[empty bloom]

Though it's not all white, so

IDK

Like

[tribal trench]

oh god did the compression mess those images up that bad or just me

[wispy pewter]

Wondering earth... Hmm

[empty bloom]

I really like my military vehicles in all white

Or mostly white with a checkboard I guess

God, that Black Knight in the center of that pic is so good.

[tribal trench]

also high key

the UN logo goes crazy

🇺🇳

[empty bloom]

I honestly wanna get a NATO flag for my car.

[tribal trench]

oh man i should do that too

all my trans friends would HATE me tho lmao

[empty bloom]

Tell me about it. I get dirty looks for wearing a 'defend equality' flag with an AR-15 on it.

Won't post it here cause, well, political, but

Yeah

[tribal trench]

edging dangerously into politics territory

[empty bloom]

Yeh

[tribal trench]

🌚

[unique rune]

personally a big fan of the one that got painted in a USCG livery for a Russian movie

[tribal trench]

got a pic?

[empty bloom]

Oh I saw that

War Thunder clone of the livery

[unique rune]

https://theaviationgeekclub.com/heres-why-this-russian-mi-24-hind-attack-helicopter-is-painted-in-us-coast-guard-colors/

[empty bloom]

(The film version's tail stripe was further up and coated the engines)

[tribal trench]

oooh ok

i kinda fw it

kinda

[meager pier]

You prefer the Spirit of Fire team coming to Zeta Halo or staying at the Ark?

[carmine sleet]

Staying at the Ark

[high elbow]

Stay at the Ark. The Banished are too clever to leave them alone at the Ark

[meager pier]

i partially think 343 will wanna bring them to Zeta Halo, so they can have Red Team reunite with Chief, and eventually get players used to Jerome, in case he becomes the next lead

[last anchor]

"I'll get to you soon enough, TOAD. I have to put your teammate in the stupid walking gun rack in their place first."

[empty bloom]

I'd rather a plot that makes sense, so keep them at the damn Ark for the love of the rings.

Halo Wars 2 has done more than enough damage for one half decade.

[meager pier]

"Let's just open a portal and reunite the gang"😝

[last anchor]

They're fighting Erusia, obviously. Or Belka

Also I really badly want to see an F-22 in Red Tails colors.

[carmine sleet]

Spirit of Fire has no slipspace drive. It cannot leave the Ark, even if her crew wanted to. It would make more sense for Chief to head to the Ark once he's done on Zeta Halo. But he'd need to find his way back to UNSC controlled space first (Or what little of it they have in the wake of Cortana's defeat)

[meager pier]

That’s true, however, someone opened a portal and brought them there at the start of HW2
And honestly, I’d prefer them going to the Endless homeworld instead of the Ark yet again

Like the Endless send Zeta Halo back to the orbit of their planet and head there to prepare for what’s next, and Chief follows them for there for the last 2 missions or so

[tired peak]

I'm sure a forerunner A.I has a spare forummer FTL drive they could "borrow"

[wispy pewter]

I'm sure they have condors on there they can slipspace for help

[tribal trench]

i think they don’t have a slipspace drive

[carmine sleet]

The Condors the SoF carried don't have slipspace drives. If they did, they'd have used one to go find someone to help

[tribal trench]

bit more complicated than that

• the forerunner AI on the ark don’t really like… anyone

[carmine sleet]

Not as simple as that, the Ark's Monitor is dead and any other Forerunner intelligence is unlikely to help them

[tribal trench]

RIP Tragic Solitude

[carmine sleet]

Indeed

Too bad he wanted to kill us all

[meager pier]

True, though someone or something brought them to the Ark
Maybe someone could then open a portal to Zeta

[tired peak]

Yeah that's why the U.N.S.C will "BORROW" any FTL drives

[tribal trench]

…if they know what they look like, where to find them, and how to install them

those are all massive “maybe”s with Anders but the chances of all’at are zero without her

[tired peak]

Awwww yeah I forgot about the MASSIVE time and technology gap between the SoF and amost EVERY other U.N.S.C official to

[carmine sleet]

I thought you were talking about Forerunner slipspace drives, not human ones

Which we already know there weren't any left on the Ark thanks to the Banished destroying any craft capable of slipspace travel that the UNSC had there

[ripe patio]

with the power of StoryTelling, they can uncover one that was hidden. Easy.

[tired peak]

No I was talking about forerunner drives

[obsidian thistle]

Ooh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRf5MJzcwqs

2558. As Jul ‘Mdama’s Covenant grows stronger through acquisition of powerful Forerunner technology, one malfunctioning Promethean Knight discovers the last vestiges of its humanity.

Releases tomorrow

Gonna be interesting

[last anchor]

Man got the SG-1 treatment

[latent olive]

I have a question! So, is there a difference from the CE marines and halo 3 marines within lore, on why their armor looks different? Or is it the same armor just different designs over the years?

[drowsy mesa]

They're are just different combat armor

[latent olive]

So I can use halo 2 anniversary armor for a halo CE film and it’ll stay within lore?

[drowsy mesa]

Yes

the only exception to that rule is the H4/H5 marine armor, which was made in the post-war era

[sonic lagoon]

What is the belief of the Triads?

[tired peak]

I got a theory on why... he saw the internet

[carmine sleet]

We know why, he wasn't happy that Chief did a number on the Ark at the end of Halo 3

[obsidian thistle]

Enjoy!!

https://www.halowaypoint.com/news/halo-the-machine-breaks

Also!

[fair hazel]

I liked it and the end!

[carmine sleet]

Oh

Well I guess I got my answer to what happened to a character I had asked about a few months back

[empty bloom]

What I find funny as hell is that I figured, for the longest time, that Knights were tortured rage golems with good controllers.

Annnnnd this confirmed it.

[drowsy mesa]

I suppose the [ROGUE ANCILLA PROCESS] mentioned in the chronicle is Cortana, right?

[carmine sleet]

It's a logical guess

I imagine she would've been probing the Promethean network for quite some time before finally taking them over

[obsidian thistle]

Reminder Cortana was hunting for the Guardians for a LONG time

Makes sense that her getting into those systems would be something she wants also

Leading to Halo 5.

(This story would have been great to have prior to Halo 5s release)

[last anchor]

Lot of this stuff would have been honestly.
Well, better late than never.

[empty bloom]

Womp womp.

[stoic hamlet]

I do agree with the comments that this does make the universe feel smaller. I like that we get Tilson again, kinda… but the connections are getting a little bit too common now.

[high elbow]

I concur. A few connections here and there is nice. Like the solider lady from Memory Agent. Or a returning character that hasn’t needed to return to the games is also a good touch. (Lord Hood for example.)

Tilson though? Were it not for her very unfortunate death, I definitely wouldn’t have remembered her at all

[stoic hamlet]

A once off, once in a while is fine.

But every story seems to pull from the breadth of the EU to make spider webs of the fiction, when IMO it’s better for these to be almost entirely isolated stories and characters.

[orchid kettle]

Tilson not being a malfunctioning Knight in Halo 4 always felt like a massive misstep

Like, what, you establish the Promethean Knights are composed people, then you have a likeable character get composed... but you never actually do anything with them being former humans?

It's like making a zombie story where a character never has to shoot their recently bitten or zombified friend or lover. That's where all the drama comes from!

Heck, CE understood this by having Chief kill an infected Keyes personally

[stoic hamlet]

Tbf to this, I don’t know that H4 had the time to explore that. Maybe Spartan Ops, but the main game was running out of steam fast at that point.

[carmine sleet]

It's not like the Knights are given moments where they communicate with the player in Halo 4 or 5 either. They're always shooting us on sight

[patent patio]

I kinda wish they were expanded on a bit more like how the covenant were. All you get from the games is that they don't like humans. Humans bad

And the mantle ig

[unborn patrol]

and even thats programming I think? they were humans once werent they?

[high elbow]

Aye. Most if not all knights were humans, modern age or ancient. Maybe some were forerunner that willingly got digitized

[wispy pewter]

if Knights are humans from New Phoenix. But there are New Phoenix humans in the Domain as well

[fair hazel]

yes

[wispy pewter]

"primitive ballistic weapons"
UNSC so dumb they've been fighting superior alien threats for like 40 years and still haven't given weapons better than pew pews to general infantry.
But I guess the MA4 and MA5 is just too iconic

[thorn ember]

Any attempts to advance their technology usually end up getting lost per the cole protocol.

[patent patio]

Pretty much 500 years into the future and our guns still have recoil

[stoic hamlet]

I mean you can’t really stop recoil due to how the process works.

But in game it’s much more pronounced. A Spartan would have no recoil at all, even firing fully automatic.

[patent patio]

I mean who says that?

Maybe one day (IRL) guns and all firearms will have no recoil

Technology is expanding and getting more advance as we all know anyway 👀

Crazy how much we've gone in the last 20 years. Imagine what the next 20 years has in store for us

[stoic hamlet]

Well yes, but it’s more the process of how the bullets and mechanisms operate.

There will always be recoil, but not necessarily felt recoil.

[patent patio]

Well it certainly feels like there's recoil in the games 👀 jk lol.

I mean there is, but don't take that statement seriously

[wispy pewter]

I don't think hand grip attachments exists in Halo lol

[unique rune]

Even if there were ways to completely mitigate the effects of the third law of motion there's also the matter of whether it's even practical for widespread application

If it makes every firearm way too large, heavy, or expensive then there's not really much of a point to it either

[lean drum]

Chrispher Nolan wants to direct a Halo tv series.

Is there a list out there that tells you precisely what times and order to read the Halo books?

[carmine sleet]

Pretty sure that's not real

[obsidian thistle]

Either read in release order OR pick a series you like

Gets way messy otherwise

[lean drum]

Thank ya for the advice!

[meager pier]

Yeah, it’s not real, but damn would that be awesome

[carmine sleet]

Honestly, I don't think Nolan is the right pick for a Halo show. As good as he is, he doesn't seem like he'd want to stick all that close to the source material. His Batman films, while good films, don't exactly care that much about aspects of the character's lore, such as Robin

[empty bloom]

I think I should direct a Halo show.

It will be about a hapless Have S'Moa employee in 2553 trying to figure out where to source more Moa nuggets.

[carmine sleet]

Have it where they're forced to use illegally sourced Moa meat and throw in Giancarlo Esposito as an antagonistic hygiene inspector

[wispy pewter]

Peter Jackson pls

[unique rune]

They should have Michael Bay do a Halo movie
I think he’d do a good job of capturing the mess that is Halo 3’s campaign

[wispy pewter]

we need a story of AI after the created conflict

[carmine sleet]

Linkin Park are back now too... You may be onto something

[meager pier]

I think a cool idea for a show would be a post-war political thriller/spy espionage series

Following ONI and other intelligence groups across the various factions in the power vacuum

Alongside the intrigue/thrill, it wouldn’t require a massive budget

[wispy pewter]

Tom Clancy's ONI

[carmine sleet]

Throw in some corporate espionage too. Be interesting to see ONI dealing with a situation caused by that

[wispy pewter]

I wonder if Boeing is still putting to sleep whistleblowers in the 26th century

[meager pier]

Prolly lol

[spark pivot]

ONI dealing with corporate espionage, that they caused (dis happens way too much in lore)

[carmine sleet]

See that would be the twist half way through the season

That the ONI Agent is actually cleaning up a mess that their handler caused

[stoic hamlet]

… does it though?

I can only really think of Hunt the Truth, but I wouldn’t call that corporate espionage.

[spark pivot]

ONI Aiding the SoS, and also aiding the enemy factions that are actively very hostile to humanity

Tbh that really isnt it either

[stoic hamlet]

That’s not corporate espionage though, that’s just basic intelligence agency, but that’s semantics.

[spark pivot]

Better note: literally everyone trying to screw everyone else over for suport of section 0, which thinks its not known to anyone else

[meager pier]

Who's worse, ONI or Weyland-Yutani lol

[stoic hamlet]

Weyland, definitely.

[high elbow]

Definitely Yutani lol. Unless ONI is secretly capitalizing and marketing flood spores, ONI is rather okay by comparison I feel

[stoic hamlet]

The one time they almost pulled a Yutani, it was a rogue officer who immediately had a clean up crew sent to deal with him.

[high elbow]

Wait what? That doesn’t sound like a happy fun time

[unique rune]

The Mona Lisa incident was a fun wholesome experience for the whole family /s

[ripe patio]

well, once they all got assimilated, they had fun

[high elbow]

Oh yeah. The Mona Lisa. F in the chat for Henry

[fair hazel]

There's been so many different reactions to the new story

[wispy pewter]

I rather have a fleetcom story

New stories should be 2560 onwards tbh

[obsidian thistle]

I aint a fan of limiting what can be told based on a year limit

[carmine sleet]

Agreed

Like, imagine if Lucasfilm put a similar limitation on stories in Star Wars where you can't tell stories set before Rise of Skywalker. You wouldn't get stories like Andor

[hexed yew]

I am playing halo again after a entire week

I am excited

[gusty star]

Exactly, literally almost every story that has been told since Halo Infinite’s release would not have existed.

And if we made that rule after Halo 5 we would not have gotten books like Silent Storm

[carmine sleet]

You know, I wonder what the other rooms we didn't see on the Ardent Prayer are used for? Because we see the bridge, hangar, COMs and weapons stations during LNoS. I would assume one would be for allowing access to the engines for maintenance

I'd also assume there's an armoury too

[empty bloom]

You say that last part like it's a bad thing.

(I vehemently hate Silent Storm)

[gusty star]

https://www.halopedia.org/images/3/3e/HWF-ArdentPrayer.jpg

You can see more areas here. I don’t have my Warfleet book on me but it discusses areas in that cutaway that we don’t see in-game. I believe Outpost Discovery also showcased a maintenance tunnel from another Corvette as well

[gusty star]

I don’t really want to know why

[empty bloom]

Then I shan't go into detail.

[carmine sleet]

From what I can tell, most of that is areas we see in game, then some bits with the armour stripped off?

[gusty star]

Well if I remember correctly I believe those catwalks located above the bridge are close to where the Shipmaster’s quarters are

[carmine sleet]

Ah, fair

[stoic hamlet]

It’s a book that I can appreciate but over the years it’s kind of “eeeeh” for me.

Really, I think Oblivion is the weakest of the two.

[empty bloom]

For me it's mostly a constant source of 'wait, the hell do you mean that's canon now? Who the hell okay'd this?'

[stoic hamlet]

With regards to what? I think the worst aspects are the latter but, with the raid on Zhoust.

[empty bloom]

Things like that ridiculous special explosive.

[stoic hamlet]

Mhm.

[thorn ember]

Only thing I could somewhat take is the 3 rank bump for John. Though even I felt it was too soon to earn that rank.

Though at the rate things are going they'll have to invent a new rank for John for all he's done. Shame about "the admiral".

[empty bloom]

Honestly, that's part of the reason I really don't like how hard Chief gets glazed as a character.

Like, if your character's achievements start breaking SODB, maybe it's time to quietly make that character retire.

Literally.

[thorn ember]

Wouldn't mind an explosive death.

[stoic hamlet]

I guess they had to bump him to MCPO to make the tagline work… but it really didn’t feel earned or correct.

[thorn ember]

Yeah. It should've been earned around the 2530s- early 40s to cement more of how it was earned.

[stoic hamlet]

Mhm.

[lean drum]

Random question. Do Grunts weigh 300 pounds.

Evidently Grunts are 5'6 in height but are incredibly heavy and sturdy.

They may be shorter but their arms are so thick.

[gusty star]

Average weight for them is 248-260 lb

[lean drum]

Ah. My mistake. Still though.

Seems like all the covenant races far outclass the humans in terms of strength.

[gusty star]

Yeah pretty much

[lean drum]

Dang. We are such underdogs.

[wispy pewter]

That is why we make up for it with superior technology!

Oh wait

[gusty star]

Yeah main reason humanity didn’t lose the war is because they didn’t let religious dogma dictate their every action☠️☠️☠️

[bronze prawn]

why the san shyuum got a dreadnought and not humanity

if humans are supposed to heir the mantle, couldnt that helped them to be in a more powerful level

[last anchor]

Mendicant Bias sucked at driving.

And Initial D'd into the planet

[wispy pewter]

You're right. Humanity should be taking all the guardians rn and reverse engineering them

[carmine sleet]

Humanity should be working with their allies within the other species in the galaxy to help further their understanding of Forerunner technology together, not hoarding it all for themselves

[carmine sleet]

The Dreadnaught crashed on the San Shyuum homeworld. It wasn't meant to be there thanks to Mendicant doing what Orca said

[carmine sleet]

The Mantle isn't worth going for, it's been used to justify atrocities by the Forerunners countless times and we even see Cortana do the same in Halo 5 when she's waking up Guardians

[obsidian thistle]

I personally doubt we'll see a calm universe anyhow till after 2610 anyhow.

[carmine sleet]

Aye, between the ancient evils being woken up, various warlords vying for power and people just wanting to kill each other, the galaxy isn't exactly calm

Maybe the next ancient evil they find will go back to sleep as they're too tired still?

[strange pumice]

Nah
It's gonna be boring if ancient evil will go back to sleep

[wispy pewter]

well judging by halo reach ending probably by 2580 the UEG will regain somewhat contorl of their inner colonies

since they have succesfully make green Reach again

[wispy pewter]

well yeah. but the smart thing is to have the advantage incase thel rethinks his allyship with the UNSC

[carmine sleet]

That doesn't mean that the galaxy as a whole is completely calm

[carmine sleet]

It'd be more preferable to do more to strengthen the relationship between the UNSC and SOS than to do things that undermine it

[obsidian thistle]

Impossible to be fully sure of the universe. ONI was still active in the 80s and thats always a worrying sign.

Especially with Halseys journal either going to a museum or Intersystem News in 2610

[wispy pewter]

My guess is the UNSC at least managed to regain its pre war strength somewhat.

I believe at Halo 4 the UNSC navy was at its fullest might. Could he wrong though

Universe? Probably not. But I hope by then the UNSC will regain some of its immediate post war strength with it's flagship

Right now the UNSC probably lost most of its big ships to Cortana. I hope they make more stories in this

[obsidian thistle]

By all means we at least know the Halo Array wont fire till at least after 2610 lol

[meager pier]

You think we’ll ever see stories in the 27th century, or the story’s endpoint is July 7, 2589, and the 2010 stuff is an epilogue?

[bronze prawn]

so after this new book of sandra tillson or whaterever that was

what is actually worse, being infected by the flood or being composed

[patent patio]

I mean Flood. It's worse knowing your identity and knowledge is stripped away just so it can affect others and your powerless to stop it

Your forced to witness the horrors brought to others :p

And it hurts too

[wispy pewter]

yeah defo the floodd is worse

[obsidian thistle]

The story endpoint is January 15 2610

https://www.halopedia.org/2610

I wouldnt want the universe to end there also

[obsidian thistle]

You become a murmur in a sea of voices

Able to be pulled out

Even after death

We see this with Regret

We killed him

Yet boom

Gravemind got the body

And yoinked him right back

Thats a horrific thought... knowing not even death can stop the Flood getting you.

[wispy pewter]

I excpect human supremecy in the 27th century

[strange pumice]

That was terrific for me for the first time when I played halo 2

[unborn patrol]

honestly

[unborn patrol]

this some warhammer 40k like sentence

[drowsy karma]

Does this make the Covenant and its offshoots unwitting champions of diversity and inclusion?