lore-and-universe

[empty bloom]

Armillaries aren't always necessary. Spartans have donned and doffed armor without them before.

[warm ridge]

The Halo rings only target things with a central nervous system / localized brain.

Things like Jellyfish, Starfish, Coral reefs, some forms of worms, most insects, & plenty of other things would be completely immune. Including all forms of bacteria etc

[wispy pewter]

Well there is a reason the Spartans on the ring didn't take out their armor. Because there are no technicians, no ring suit systems

[warm ridge]

You can make the argument that the Harbinger is just an intelligent evolved Jellyfish

[wispy pewter]

All those you mentioned have nervous systems

[warm ridge]

No, they don't. Not in the traditional sense.

https://www.scienceabc.com/nature/animals/jellyfish-function-without-heart-brain.html

https://www.animalwised.com/animals-without-a-central-nervous-system-4765.html#anchor_5 @wispy pewter

All of these would be entirely immune to Halo. It'd do nothing to them

[wispy pewter]

It literally makes no sense because every living thing has a nervous system. It doesn't have to be central

Without them you are either a plant or a fungi

[warm ridge]

That's also false lol

[warm ridge]

this is false to

[wispy pewter]

Tell me how do you move or have basic reactions without one?

[warm ridge]

Also if you know anything about Halo lore, you'd know it only targets things with a central nervous system. Things that have complex forms of brains.

That's all they target, everything else is immune

[wispy pewter]

So the endless with superman level power is not a complex being? Interesting

[warm ridge]

Become a scientist today by studying jellyfish now

[warm ridge]

Where did I say this? What?

They don't have centralized brains

That's how they're immune

Your brain = central nervous system

[empty bloom]

They lacked technicians, were in the field for an indeterminate amount of time, and had no reason to get out of their armor.

Also, Spartan Kovan got out of her armor at the end of the book.

And it was explicitly an hours-long process.

[wispy pewter]

Someone do an autopsy on the Harbinger now

[warm ridge]

I'm just telling you that's how there immune to the Halo rings, because a lot of species are.

Hell even the Flood itself is immune, all the Halo rings did was make the Flood harmless by turning it into clumps of biomass that isn't able to move around or "think" for itself.

[wispy pewter]

Understandable

[warm ridge]

Halo rings in a sense turn you brain dead

and the Flood based there entire force off of having a centralized brain (gravemind)

but if you don't have a centralized brain to begin with, absolutely nothing will happen to you.

[warm ridge]

All Plants have "nervous systems" to btw, they're even theorized to be able to think & remember stuff. They just don't have central brains

https://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2019/exploring-the-underground-network-of-trees-the-nervous-system-of-the-forest/

[carmine sleet]

What states they're not a species definitively? Everything I see contradicts what you are saying

[runic wharf]

What/who are headhunters?

Are they assassins?

[gusty star]

Xalanyn and Gasgira seem to be two different species, though it’s hard to tell. But both seem to belong to the Endless

[stoic hamlet]

They’re Spartans selected for deep-sabotage/asset denial missions. Deployed in pairs or (post war) as solo operators.

They can be used for assassination, but they’re most often sent to retrieve friendly or cripple enemy infrastructure deep behind enemy lines.

The program was started by Spartan III, under ONI’s Beta-5, but post war it now employs Spartan IV’s as well.

[warm ridge]

There's absolutely no evidence to suggest the "endless" is a species. Nothing suggest this at all either.

We know this because the Harbinger's species are called Xalanyn, yet she is a member of the Endless.

The Harbinger has also said multiple times to "join the endless", suggesting you can join a faction.

Skimmers, which are apparently also part of the Endless, are called Gasgira.

That's 2 entirely different species who are part of the Endless, and the Harbinger wants more people to join them.

[unique rune]

…That’s like saying the “Elites” are a faction distinct from the Sangheili as a species.

She has one single piece of random boss fight dialogue about joining her. The way she refers to the Endless otherwise suggests it’s just another name for the Xalanyn.

[carmine sleet]

Aye. And given the context, I think it's more she wants Chief to join her in defiance against the Forerunners opposed to joining the Endless

[proper mango]

Is their any evidence to support the endless are immune or do t have a cns?
They survived the array but we know that could be done.
The FSC can survive halo. And time locks and other shield worlds also protected from halo.
Honestly the endless being worse than the flood was such a bad peice of dialogue particularly with no showing of how.
Personally I read the line as cortana referencing herself but that doesn't seem the popular
interpretation.
But we know the flood has toyed with species before and pretended they could stop infection. It's the cruelty of the gravemind that has me thinking it is just tricking the monitors and humanity like it did the forerunners. Starting a war yo weekend the heard before the slaughter.

[warm ridge]

Elites is just another name for Sangheili, the Humans call the Sangheili Elites. Sangheili do not call themselves "Elites", so no it's not.

Endless is not another name for Harbinger or Xalanyn. There'd be absolutely no reason for the Harbinger to refer to her species as a faction.

[warm ridge]

Wrong, she has multiple lines suggesting the Endless are a faction, even suggesting you can earn a position / rank in the Endless itself.

"My time is ended. Yours too. They will make sure... The Endless will return."

"Kill the Spartan! Earn your place among the Endless!"

"Slay him, and earn a place among the Endless!" 

"The Endless will be avenged... and restored!"

"The Endless will rise again!"```
And yes, the dialogue you're referring to tells us this to.
```"I might have let you join us... but no more."```

Pretty much in all scenarios of how she refers to the Endless tells us it's not a "species" she's referring to.

[warm ridge]

do t have a cns
what?

And time locks and other shield worlds also protected from halo.
Which the Endless / Harbinger don't have, as far as we can tell they were localized to there own solar system & hadn't even achieved slipspace tech yet.
They aren't capable of building shield worlds or anything like that either.

[proper mango]

Don't* have a cns?

do t have a cns
what?

"Which the Endless / Harbinger don't have, as far as we can tell they were localized to there own solar system & hadn't even achieved slipspace tech yet.
They aren't capable of building shield worlds or anything like that either."
What evidence is there of that or is it just conjecture?
And the tech can always have been provided if true.

I suppose ultimately my issue is the endless aren't so much a mystery they're just underdeveloped.
And what little we know of them doesn't make them out to be this grand threat the game likes to suggest them to be.
Theyre just a frustrating peice of poorly written world building for me personally.

[warm ridge]

I don't know what you mean by cns at all.

What evidence is there of that or is it just conjecture?
They were found on a single planet aka there home world planet..?
The Forerunners didn't go around from solar system to solar system trying to track down every one part of the Endless faction, because they didn't need to. That's all the evidence you need? We know what / where there home world is so..yeah.

And the tech can always have been provided if true.
Idk what this is supposed to mean.

[proper mango]

The Elites and Brutes and Grunts have all used those words referring to themselves and each other in prior titles dialogue so the endless can very well refer to the xalanyn and there isn't evidence to answer conclusively either way. At this time both are likely outcomes. And 343i isn't exactly consistent with their naratice direction so intention may not pan out to be true.

[carmine sleet]

Halo 2 goes against what you are saying, there are Elites that refer to themselves as such, along with Prophets and Brutes doing so as well

Sure, that's likely due to the devs not wanting to confuse the players who don't know the species names but still

[proper mango]

Oh! its common shortgand, cns Central Nervous System, I thought context clues made that obvious. Sorry.

Many species were reduced to a single world by the end of the war. Even before the war humanity had sterilised many worlds though so yeah.

By
"provided if true" I mean.

If they weren't advanced enough to defend themselves from the array. There's no reason the technology couldn't have been provided to them. Like I've said it's literally a move in the gravemind's established play book. As is its love of repeating actions in a cyclical fashion.

[warm ridge]

The Elites and Brutes and Grunts have all used those words referring to themselves
The only times this happens is usually in random gameplay quotes or funny easter eggs. Grunts do it the most out of any of them.
In all the quotes for Sangheili, in the games it's only happened 3 times (not counting HW2).
In HW2, Elite Enforcers will say stuff like "Elite Enforcers reporting" or "Elites, moving out!" which is obviously meant for gameplay reasons only & that's it.

the endless can very well refer to the xalanyn and there isn't evidence to answer conclusively
This is false, there is plenty of evidence to suggest Endless doesn't mean Xalanyn, I already showed multiple lines saying as such. Not a single one refers to the "Endless" as a species. So we only have one out come here, not both.

343i isn't exactly consistent with their naratice direction
What? Uh yea, they are very consistent.

[warm ridge]

I've never heard of anyone referring central nervous system as cns so not that common at all.

Many species were reduced to a single world by the end of the war. Even before the war humanity had sterilised many worlds though so yeah.
and I have absolutely no idea where you're going with this, this means nothing. The entire Endless faction & Xalanyn were entirely unknown to both Ancient Humans, Forerunners, and all species at that time. I imagine not even all Precursors like the Primordial knew of there existence.

If they weren't advanced enough to defend themselves from the array.
The Endless aren't advanced enough to defend themselves from the array, the Forerunners knew this, and it's why they wanted to figure out how they survived.

[carmine sleet]

"The Elites are blind Arbiter, but I will make them see."

That's an exact quote from the Heretic Leader in Halo 2

[warm ridge]

ok so 4 times (this one wasn't on the Sangheili quote page, his quotes are different page) and that's still just a gameplay quote for ease of use. You're not about to tell me they were speaking English to each other as well, are you?

[warm ridge]

already made an argument for this

[carmine sleet]

It's a line from a cutscene, not randomly triggered in gameplay. And I already said this earlier "Sure, that's likely due to the devs not wanting to confuse the players who don't know the species names but still". I never claimed they are canonically speaking English in that scene

[warm ridge]

Idk if the quote pages Halopedia has may not be fully complete but in all the 343i Halo games (and even later Bungie games), any mentions of them calling themselves "Elites" basically disappear, besides HW2 and the Grunts doing it.

you start noticing them calling themselves by there species name a lot more. Thel Vadamee (arbiter) does it a lot.

Elites in general (even in gameplay) begin doing this to btw

[carmine sleet]

Ok

[warm ridge]

anyways Idk why an argument was started over this because this entire thing was about whether the Harbinger calls herself an Endless, and she never did. Just lines that indicate she's part of the Endless.

[warm ridge]

if you can somehow tell me if it's possible to "earn your place among the endless" by turning into a Xalanyn somehow that'd be great, but I'm 100% confident that's not the direction 343i was going with this at all.

[proper mango]

"I've never heard of anyone referring central nervous system as cns so not that common at all. "

OK? I didnt realise you were the arbiter of short hand and your anecdotal experience was what defines common parlance lmao.
It's standard shorthand in every education system I've worked and learned under across multiple countries so CNS is quite commonly used.

"and I have absolutely no idea where you're going with this, this means nothing. The entire Endless faction & Xalanyn were entirely unknown to both Ancient Humans, Forerunners, and all species at that time."
Well you can't say that for certainty for ancient humanity nor the flood nor does it negate the possibility of precursor interference from the past as we know they played the long game. You make wild assumptions. The reality is we cannot make judgements only speculate given the lack of info.

And all speculation is valid at this point in time.
I only asked you to provide some evidence and its all circumstantial is my point and not any more compelling than anyone else's.
The CNS thing is particularly weak though. Cause there's nothing I can see to suggest it and them having flood immunity doesn't seem to be their point of interest. Its the surviving of the array that is.

" I imagine not even all Precursors like the Primordial knew of there existence."
Again why and how?
What reason outside pure speculative thought is their for this belief?
The flood literally chose to leave certain species live for certain reasons at times this could easily be another example of the gravemind's machinations.

"The Endless aren't advanced enough to defend themselves from the array, the Forerunners knew this, and it's why they wanted to figure out how they survived."
But again we don't know that. We can only speculate. It could easily be just a primordial ploy.
It could be an artifact in their possession. It can be the silly time travel theory people have.
It could be they are advanced and simply chose to hold up at HQ.

Anyway from a marketing position I'd guess the endless and Xalanyn are synonymous.
The banished were already a new faction and a species needs a catchy name for marines to shout for those less interested in lore yano?

[warm ridge]

Well you can't say that for certainty for ancient humanity
We can, they had no idea they existed. No Halo lore suggest they knew either.** This isn't arguable, it's a fact. **
nor the flood
We also know the Flood never interacted or knew of there existence either, otherwise the Flood would've had there abilities. They do not. There's your confirmation. This isn't arguable, it's a fact.
You make wild assumptions.
Haven't made any assumptions, I've been listing off factual statements here about who all knew about the Endless. None of them did.
we cannot make judgements only speculate
**We can make definitive factual statements (if that's what you mean by judgements) without speculating. **

I only asked you to provide some evidence
Which I did, **that's all the evidence you need. **
its all circumstantial
I haven't provided any circumstantial evidence, no idea what makes you think this.
them having flood immunity
The Endless / Xalanyn / Gasgira do NOT have Flood immunity, this is never stated. This isn't arguable, it's a fact.

" I imagine not even all Precursors like the Primordial knew of there existence."
Again why and how?
Because the Primordial never brought them up? You asked a simple question that has an obvious answer. If the Flood had the option to become completely immune to the Halo rings, the Primordial would've told the Flood about it.
The flood literally chose to leave certain species live for certain reasons
This is false, the Flood wanted complete revenge against the Forerunners & to erase all there influence, which is what happened. If a world had no Forerunners on it, the Flood ignored it.

But again we don't know that
We definitively factually know the Endless did not have the capabilities to defend themselves from the Halo array. **None of this is speculation. **
Anyway from a marketing position I'd guess the endless and Xalanyn are synonymous.
This is incorrect.

If you keep trying to argue any of the points that I stated were definitive factual statements, I am just going to ignore it, because I'm not trying to argue with you about things Halo lore directly states.

[spark pivot]

Im only going to throw this one point in here bc this argument hurts my head, your first point here isnt a fact, we dont what anyone knew because this is the first time they've showed up that doesnt mean no one knew about them back then

In no media anywhere does it state that very few knew of their existence

Id take apart the rest of these arguments but im on a phone so have fun making unfounded assumptions

[warm ridge]

We know the Forerunners, Flood, Ancient humanity, and any other species the Forerunners knew existed, did not know they existed.

because if they did, it would've been accounted for.

[spark pivot]

Ok one other thing i must point out, your argument about the flood ignoring worlds without forerunners is just straight up wrong, the flood took over the entire galaxy not just forerunner controlled soace

[warm ridge]

still unsure what unfounded assumptions you're talking about because I haven't sent any,

[warm ridge]

The Flood would ignore certain planets that the Forerunners purposely killed themselves on or had zero presence on. This was stated quite a few times.

[spark pivot]

Not when they have literally never been mentioned before because they're a new faction that doesnt mean they werent known about

[spark pivot]

Humanity.

[warm ridge]

It does, because the Forerunners would've mentioned them, and they didn't.

Doesn't matter that they're new in lore, we would've gotten new lore stating as such, and we didn't, because no one knew they existed, the Forerunners didn't either.

Not sure how that's difficult to grasp tbh.

[spark pivot]

MY GUY, WHAT NEW LORE?

There have been TWO new books and a game

[warm ridge]

I just told you we didn't get any lore that stated anyone knew they existed?

Which is a fact.

We got lore that stated no one knew they existed.

[spark pivot]

That doesnt prove that they dont????

[warm ridge]

Bruh how is this difficult to grasp for you

[spark pivot]

My guy, just because no one mentions them, in stories which arent focused on them doesnt mean no one knew...

[warm ridge]

this shouldn't be difficult to understand my god 😭

this is already a circular argument so I'ma have to stop you right there

[spark pivot]

It wouldnt be, if it wasnt completely unfoumded

[spark pivot]

It really isnt, its just common sense

[warm ridge]

yea the common sense being the lore said no one knew they existed.

You don't have that

why? No idea, only you can answer that

[spark pivot]

Give me media stating that no one knew about them and i'll believe you, otherwise, i will continue to hold my ground

[warm ridge]

Bruh this was literally all explained in Halo Infinite 😭

There's your media btw

[spark pivot]

I played the campaign, no one said they werent a well known race....

[warm ridge]

It did

[spark pivot]

Where.

Give me the lines.

[warm ridge]

As I said, this is already a circular argument, so I'm stopping you here cause it doesn't seem to matter what I say, show, or tell you about this.

[spark pivot]

You havent shown me anything

Give me the lines where they say they are a "hidden" species

[carmine sleet]

If you're going to argue something and claim there's evidence that proves you are right, it's normal to have the evidence to back up your claim

And Primus isn't wrong, the Endless not being mentioned in the past isn't proof that nobody knew about them

It'd be like claiming South Dakota doesn't exist in Halo because nobody mentions it

[proper mango]

"We can, they had no idea they existed. No Halo lore suggest they knew either. This isn't arguable, it's a fact."
Sorry but that's fallacious.
Absence of Evidence does not mean Evidence of Absence.
Eg:No lore suggested forerunners weren't human until it was added.

"We also know the Flood never interacted or knew of there existence." Again fallacy. And lore shows the flood choose what to infect and when. As stated.

"Haven't made any assumptions."
You have...

"We can make definitive factual statements without speculating." You've been speculating.

that's all the evidence you need.
It's not conclusive as stated.

"I haven't provided any circumstantial evidence."
Reads otherwise.

"The Endless / Xalanyn / Gasgira do NOT have Flood immunity." OK. the CNS speculation threw me off.

"Because the Primordial never brought them up?"
Sorry that again is fallacious.

"If the Flood had the option"
As we've established the gravemind's defi ing trait is subterfuge. And it's motivations aren't as clear as people make them out to be. The FSC survived the array also...

"This is false"
No it is not. The flood pretended humanity had a cure and didn't infect sanshyuum to play with its food as it were and weaken the ecumine through a proxy war...

"the Endless did not have the capabilities to defend themselves from the Halo array." Yet they did. And you don't know how so you are speculating about it...

"This is incorrect."
And the proof is?

"Halo lore directly states."
The thing is you arent using that for the most part your filling in blanks and using a lack of data as proof which it isn't.

I don't care in the end I'm just pointing out the clear speculative reasoning.
The only fact we have is we don't know Jack about Jill.
And pretending we do makes the speculating less interesting imo.

It's like claiming to know what the warden was pre epitaph. You have nothing conclusive as proof just interpretation of lacking data as basis of assumptions and speculation.

[warm ridge]

"How could this have happened? How could we not know of this till now? Xalanyn. A species previously uncatalogued. Xalanyn. A problem that must be solved. Did my makers know of them? How could they have kept this from me? I have requested council. Soon I will know how to proceed."
Halo Infinite Audio Log - Archaeological Findings - 03 Xalanyn.

They once again had no idea they existed, if you played Halo Infinite you'd know this, apparently you didn't?

[warm ridge]

Just did, but I know it won't do anything.

[carmine sleet]

My take is that the Endless just simply kept to themselves in their home system, where ever that is, and got lucky the Flood didn't find them. How they survived Halo's fire is unknown and something that should be explained in a future game

[warm ridge]

I already showed all the evidence above in a convo with @proper mango that I'm sure @spark pivot has read, so he's already seen all of that. I don't think I'd have to repost the same voice lines again either so.

[spark pivot]

thank you for actually providing proof to back up your claims

[warm ridge]

We definitively know the Forerunners had no idea they existed. This would also apply to Ancient humanity as well & any species the Forerunners held under there influence.

[carmine sleet]

Ok

[proper mango]

P
And thats a perfectly valid hypothesis. Same as any other at this time.

And again for the record uncatalogued by forerunner doesn't mean ancient humanity and the flood were unaware of the Xalanyn/Endless. We are jumping the shark with assumptions.
It's fun to hypothesise though!

[spark pivot]

Humanity werent really under forerunner influence until after they were devolved, but your arguments hold more water now

Aight, you proved your main point, now to fact check some other stuff

[carmine sleet]

The problem with the Endless is currently we (As in us in the real world) don't know enough about them to make too many conclusive statements about them. But the evidence we do have is telling us that Endless is another name for the Xalanyn species and that they have advanced tech and somehow survived Halo's fire. And like, mysteries aren't a bad thing to have, some aren't meant to be solved, the Endless though, they're clearly one we hopefully will learn more about

They're something new, different and honestly exciting to me

[proper mango]

The only fact we have is that. We don't know. 100%

[warm ridge]

As I said, I'm not arguing with you about factual statements regarding set in stone Halo lore, so anything you've said against them will be ignored.

the CNS speculation threw me off.
You do realize the Flood infects any and all living beings, even ones without central nervous systems right?
The Flood use central nervous systems to create there forms, without it the Flood is just clumps of flood super cell biomass that is inherently, harmless, as 343 Guilty Spark himself said in Halo 2. This results in it starving to death.

This is why the Xalanyn wouldn't be immune to the Flood even if they don't have a central nervous system. The problem is the Xalanyn would be the very 1st intelligent species the Flood had ever encountered without a central nervous system, aka the very thing the Halo rings target.

As always, nothing here is speculation.

[carmine sleet]

Like, I wanna know what more of their tech looks like, how their society works and how those will impact the populations in the galaxy right now once they're a more publicly known species

[warm ridge]

It's not the only piece of evidence, I'm just sending the audio log transcript cause it's the easiest one.

[carmine sleet]

I thought we moved on from the central nervous system discussion

[spark pivot]

The one other thing that i have a problem with is you saying precursors didnt know about them, when its stated that precursors quite literally seeded the entire milky way with life, except for artificial life forms like huragok, the precursors made all life in the known halo universe, what i wanna know is how you came to that conclusion?

[warm ridge]

asking the wrong person, Moditor keeps bringing it back up

[spark pivot]

They didnt bring it up again

Not since this whole argument

[carmine sleet]

I would wager that the Precursors definitely knew about them, even if somehow they didn't create them. Too bad the Domain was damaged by Halo. It likely would've answered allot of questions

[warm ridge]

I only said the Primordial didn't know, not that all Precursors didn't know. Clearly some Precursor and or Precursors made them, it just wasn't the Primordial.

[spark pivot]

That, also doesnt really make any sense, but whatever

[warm ridge]

Precursors aren't a hive mind species, they could've very well numbered into the billions or even trillions. You'd have different Precursors doing different things, not all Precursors are going to know what the other one is doing.

[carmine sleet]

Nobody here brought up Precursors being a hivemind?

[spark pivot]

Yes, but you are making a barely founded assumption here that just because x isnt y, z wouldnt know a

[spark pivot]

^

[warm ridge]

he's saying it doesn't make sense for the primordial to know about the endless, when in actuality it makes plenty of sense for him to have no idea.

unless you're trying to argue semantics, which is dumb.

[warm ridge]

Me saying one Precursor isn't going to know what the other one is doing isn't a assumption.

[spark pivot]

Precursors would've likely known what eachother were doing....

[warm ridge]

No, they wouldn't.

[spark pivot]

Proof where.

[warm ridge]

again:
they numbered in the billions probably trillions+
would be impossible to know.

[spark pivot]

My guy, you seem to be forgetting how far the precursors were advanced

[warm ridge]

the Primordial, if he knew about them, would've also made the Flood immune from the Halo rings. He did not.

[carmine sleet]

You just said the same thing twice basically. Someone saying "it doesn't make sense for someone to know" isn't somehow saying that it's bad someone doesn't know something

[warm ridge]

Which suggest he didn't know of there existence.

So there's your proof. @spark pivot

[warm ridge]

I already know how advanced they are, that doesn't change what I said.

[spark pivot]

my guy. That is the weakest argument in history, do you know why?

[warm ridge]

you're about to create a semantical argument aren't you

if that's what's happening then I'm out

[carmine sleet]

And you haven't already?

[warm ridge]

Nope, not at all.

[spark pivot]

Im asking you do you know why that argument is so weak

I want to know

[warm ridge]

It's not weak at all, as I said, you're trying to create a semantical argument, so I'm out.

[spark pivot]

Im not making any arguments, i want to know what you think holds up your argument

[warm ridge]

I already explained this

[warm ridge]

@spark pivot here we can end with this.

[spark pivot]

Your argument is that one precursor, (who didnt create the flood, he just merged with it,) didnt make the flood immune to halo's, (which wouldnt have nessecarily been known about immediately) therefore, they didnt know about one species

[proper mango]

"As I said, I'm not arguing with you about factual statements regarding set in stone Halo lore."
That's fine. But I haven't actually denied any lore. Simply pointed out your tendency to extrapolate through the absence of information.
Your theories are perfectly plausible but are not the facts you assert them to be.

"You do realize the Flood infects any and all living beings, even ones without central nervous systems right?"
Yes I'm well aware. It just looked like you asserted something else as I said that was my misunderstanding. I don't need a rundown on floodonomics I'm well aware of the lore.

" Xalanyn would be the very 1st intelligent species the Flood had ever encountered without a central nervous system, aka the very thing the Halo rings target."
We don't have the data to prove that though it's just your hypothesis. Where was this stated and set in stone in the lore? Or is this just you speculating?

[spark pivot]

Nothing has gone into xalanyn biology yet, so its 100% speculation

[carmine sleet]

Aye, you can't know you're immune to something before the thing exists

[warm ridge]

the Primordial created the Flood, and no I'm not going to have that argument with you about it.
the Primordial knew the Halo rings were being made & what they were, he just didn't know where they were located.
Idk what your whole thing about "one species" is about.

[spark pivot]

......

What?

Unless i missed one very big plot point reading the mythos and encyclopedia and everything else, the primordial was never said to have created the flood

[carmine sleet]

Mutated/corrupted space dust made from Precursor bodies from what I remember. Nothing specific about the Primordial making it

[proper mango]

It's set in stone that the Primordial did not create the flood my dude.
It was a mutation due the being drove insane from the rebellion after transmutation into dust and echoes

I FIGURED IT OUT THIS GUY HAS ACCESS TO THE DOMAIN!!!🤯

[warm ridge]

@proper mango

I haven't actually denied any lore.
If you're denying any statements I made, you are.
Your theories
what theories?
We don't have the data to prove that though
Halo lore aka Forerunners say as much, they'd be the 1st intelligent species that behave & operate like they do. This is why the Forerunners imprisoned them.

[proper mango]

OK I'm out dudes just convinced he has information that doesn't even exist.
It's fun speculation but that is all it is his speculation.
Enjoy the discussion folks and don't take it too seriously its just nonsense scfi in the end.
Peace out ✌️

[carmine sleet]

Who made you arbiter of what is and isn't lore?

[warm ridge]

1. Primordial moved Precursor dust towards Ancient Human space, as he knew the Ancient Humans would use it & experiment with it on themselves & there pets.

2. Over many centuries, this dust was slowly changing the genetic code of every organic being it encountered, which eventually lead to the Flood's creation.

3. When the Forerunner-Flood war started & the Primordial was reimprisoned by the Ur-Didact in a reverse stasis chamber, and when it killed the body of the Primordial it transferred it's own counciousness into the Gravemind, taking control of the Flood.

So by all intents and purposes, yes, the Primordial created the Flood, 100% intentionally. This was later extrapolated on again in Halo Epitaph btw, with the Primordial even stating as much.

“You breathe hypocrisy.” 
And Forerunners never see the Mantle for what it is. A test, merely. And all ultimately fail. Humanity will be tested next. And, like you, they will feed and grow fat on preeminence and power, on hubris and righteousness, and when they are at their ripest, the Flood will feast once more.

[warm ridge]

Idk what this is supposed to mean cause I haven't become an arbiter of anything.

[spark pivot]

Its him poking at the fact that you've made several speculative statements that you held up as lore without sufficient grounds

[warm ridge]

such as?

[wispy pewter]

yawn

Epitaph kinda confirmed the mantle was a test

[proper mango]

Epitaph was actually amazing imo. Did so much for didact and cortanas characters and hugely improves the mess of infinites narrative. Kelly is a great author.

[wispy pewter]

Yeah Didact the simp

he managed to have a happy ending

and met his old foe the lord of admirals

[warm ridge]

yea it proved a TON of things I've been saying about the Precursors & the Flood for years now, things I've argued with people about for a super long time.

Outcasts did prove some other things to about Precursors also.

[wispy pewter]

that fancy netherop weapon would have been useful

but ONI literally have an ancient human ship with weapons that destroyed entire forerunner fleets

[warm ridge]

they have an ancient human ship over 100,000+ years old that's been floating in space & bathing in milky way radiation.

all electronics on that thing are definitely fried

[wispy pewter]

well depends, we have forerunner stuff still running even after 100 thousand years

[warm ridge]

oh and i forgot to mention it's also not working / entirely inoperable, meaning no shield protections or anything had been turned on for who knows how long.

[wispy pewter]

this is why I want a game centered around the human forerunner war

[warm ridge]

forerunner stuff that still has power sources & ways of producing energy.

that ancient human ship has none of that

[wispy pewter]

we know that the UNSC designed the hellcat based on ancestor tech

therere is an interesting read that mentions the ancient humans using energy weapons that can adapt to whatever they are firing at. Which is why they were so good at defeating forerunner ships

[warm ridge]

it's design is based off them afaik, not necessarily the tech inside the suit itself

i would imagine ONI has probably reverse engineered some things sure

[spark pivot]

Iirc forerunner weapons do that too, the spartan field manual mentions it i believe

[wispy pewter]

the Bio of the armor literally states it's based on some ancient stuff discovered

[warm ridge]

but if you're expecting them to get an entire ancient human ship fully operational again anytime soon you're overly exaggerating ONI's capabilities

[wispy pewter]

im talking about reverse engineering

they tried stealing a covie ship as well for the glassing cannon but failed

netherop weapon failed as well

[warm ridge]

yes, it's design
"Built of knowledge stolen from enigmatic ruins on a dead world and materials stripped from the vault of a shattered starship, the HELLCAT is both utterly alien and strangely familiar. "

The knowledge comes from a mysterious "dead world" and materials stripped from a vault of a shattered starship. Not the intact Ancient Human ship tho.

[wispy pewter]

it literally is

the armor is based on ancient human soldiers

[warm ridge]

what bruh

I just copied and pasted exactly what it says to you

you can't argue with that

[wispy pewter]

shattered starship is obviously pointing to this https://www.halopedia.org/Site_Yankee-002-G3

which is most likely

[warm ridge]

false, because that ship is intact.

"While no direct link has been made, it is worth noting that this "shattered starship" may be the ancient human cruiser found at Site Yankee-002-G3 and documented in ONI XENO-MATERIALS EXPLOITATION REPORT 15Y1198. However, this vessel appears to be fully intact, which would seemingly contradict the statement of Hellcat being designed using materials from a "shattered starship.""

[wispy pewter]

doesn't matter, we know the hellcat is based on ancient human

[warm ridge]

Hellcat comes from some place else, including a mysterious dead world.

[warm ridge]

No direct link has been made towards this idea either except that it happens to look similar.

[warm ridge]

this still applies @wispy pewter

if you're denying that still idk what else to tell you

[wispy pewter]

https://halo.fandom.com/wiki/Heian

and the fact that Spartan IIs have no problems adjusting to the armor it really obvious if you put two and two together

[warm ridge]

BTW
something to note:
Ancient Humans fought Forerunners when the Warrior Servants were at there strongest.
This changed later on when the Builders took full control of the Forerunner empire.

Forerunner tech also got even more advanced after the Forerunner - Human war ended as well. Just something to add.

[wispy pewter]

it's definitely something 343 intended

[carmine sleet]

Huh, just heard someone call Jul's Covenant the Storm Covenant. Wasn't expecting that this year

[thorn ember]

Makes sense though I thought that was somewhat established for over 12 years ago.

[wispy pewter]

Now that the UNSC basically doesn't exist anymore, what is stopping the Banished from invading earth

[obsidian thistle]

Nope

That was a mistake Game Informer made and content creators in 2012/13 kept repeating after 343i said otherwise

Twas a weird time

[carmine sleet]

T'was a weird time indeed

I do think Storm Covenant sounds good though and would've helped with making Jul's Covenant being a different faction to the classic Covenant more obvious to casual fans

[carmine sleet]

The Banished aren't all that interested in invading Earth

[wispy pewter]

They seem very interested in killing humans though

[carmine sleet]

And the only real thing there that the Banished would be interested in, they don't need, being the Ark portal, but they have one on Reach they can access

[wispy pewter]

Kelly Gay went into great detail on the human massacres

[carmine sleet]

The end goal of the Banished isn't wiping out humanity

[orchid kettle]

It always felt like to me that Atriox's "thing" should be how he incorporates defeated foes who are willing to swear their loyalty to him into his ranks regardless of their species

but I guess then he doesn't seem as villainous

The Banished in general I feel like have this issue where their creed about not caring about past grievances, accepting members of all species's, and being diametrically opposed to the covenant all come across as somewhat admirable and heroic

but also yeah they need to eat babies to establish that they're baddies

[meager pier]

Atriox is a great foster dad, taking in so many abandoned soldiers

[orchid kettle]

It reminds me of Big Boss a lot and how every game about him insisted that this would be the one that showed his descent into villainy only for that transition to mainly be off screen I guess?

||I guess once you find out the twist in MGSV and how the real big boss exploited Venom's loyalty like the US government did with the Boss that does accomplish that, even if you weren't actually playing as Big Boss and being forced to commit these acts of villainy yourself||

[wispy pewter]

too late for that now

they are established to be just straight up criminal

so much so I think they deserver a worse fate than the destrouction of their homeworld

This is why I didn't like Chief showing respect to Eschsrum. The same dude that literally drove humans off cliffs

Butchered his Spartan comrades

[carmine sleet]

Wait until you learn that humanity has also caused atrocities

[unique rune]

NOVA bomb moment

[wispy pewter]

I mean the UNSC did pretty mean things... But genocide and mistreatment of POWs isn't one.

[unique rune]

Given they were never really in the position to commit any genocides I'm not gonna give them any points for that

not with their history of
indiscriminate nuclear bombing under the pretense of clearing out Insurrectionists

and also the time they were experimenting with the Flood on POWs

[empty bloom]

I still do sometimes tbh

But then most people would know who I'm referring to.

[carmine sleet]

Fair

[empty bloom]

Plus it kinda makes sense given the names of certain (real world analogues for lost causers)

[carmine sleet]

Aye

But alas they weren't canonically called the Storm Covenant

[empty bloom]

The still existing human defenses, either manned by AI or indentured troops.

Earth likely didn't lose her Super MACs. The Created would understand that defensive value.

[carmine sleet]

I imagine that they'd have made attempts to improve them too

[empty bloom]

If 343 has the Created do literally anything else I'm gonna legit be mad about it lmao

Like AI informs industry on Earth, that's literally canon

They even handle farming

They control everything that you actually need to live right now, lmao, you aren't internally uprising to win that scenario

[carmine sleet]

So what you're saying is that they could turn the farming equipment into tools for controlling the population

[unique rune]

More like they have seized the means of production I think

[carmine sleet]

Comrades!!

[high elbow]

Communist AIs intensify

[wispy pewter]

I don't think the guardian controlling Cortana needs puny Macs

[empty bloom]

Redundancy.

Do people like, literally never realize that AI are supposed to be not idiots

I hope the writers don't think that way.

Plus also different jobs

[unique rune]

She also only has so many Guardians available

[empty bloom]

You don't need a sledgehammer to drive a single small wall nail.

[unique rune]

She doesn't have an infinite supply that she can send at will to patrol every system, which was literally a plot point in a couple of novels

[carmine sleet]

Cortana has also been shown to be resourceful in the games too

Like, if she wasn't smart, Chief would've never been able to damage the generators on Two Betrayals since he wouldn't have thought of using his armour's shields to disrupt the generator

Not saying Chief is dumb, it's just not something he would likely have come up with alone

[high elbow]

I mean, his usual plan of shooting his way out probably could’ve worked fine. I’m sure enough plasma grenades would’ve worked, though time consuming.

[empty bloom]

The point is not that Chief is good enough to do everything. It's that his resources include people who know more than he does.

[carmine sleet]

Indeed

And Chief is smart enough to know that

Like, if one of his fellow Spartans needed surgery due to an injury, he isn't going to act like he could do better than a trained medical professional

[thorn ember]

Wish 5 poked more into that with Blue Team.

[carmine sleet]

That's why I wish Halo 5 had Kelly, Linda and Fred working alongside Osiris to find Chief instead of following him around

[orchid kettle]

Spartan teams in general I feel like have this issue where they're individually expected to be great at too many things imo

At least compared to like, some teams in fiction where there's really only one guy who's the designated combat guy, and everybody else is expected to find other ways to contribute

Halo of course tends to do the inverse where it feels like everybody is geared towards combat but hey-- maybe there's an envoy or former police investigator who has to do all the non combat things

or a smart AI who really can do everything except physically overpower an alien in a wrestling match

[thorn ember]

The usually save that for the books since it'd be quite the unexpected game play change and could disrupt the flow. Though the way 5 did with Osiris in weapons down was a good start.

[orchid kettle]

Halo's gameplay especially is unfortunately not the best at highlighting a character's strengths and weaknesses since the player is obviously expected to be able to use a sniper or shotgun more or less as effectively regardless of which character they're playing as

[thorn ember]

Probably one of the best things for Wars 2 is how each Spartan in Read Team is different and how they handled themselves during their levels.

Though being an RTS helps.

[wispy pewter]

Even story wise we never got to see Tanaka or Vale play their strengths. But anyways who needs an elite speaking Spartan in combat missions. I'm sure translators are a thing!

[unique rune]

I mean. Her thing isn't "just" being able to speak Sangheili

[hexed yew]

Hey I made a halo spnkr rocket launcher but I can’t access photos (Btw this is on Roblox just the beta model-

[thorn ember]

Yeah, she's well versed in their culture and that kind of knowledge is good for those who aren't too aware. Interesting to note that she has quite a dynamic working alongside Thel in recent books.

[wispy pewter]

yeah she and thel was kinda hitting it off

[carmine sleet]

I love how Thel sees her as akin to a daughter figure thanks to her love for his people's culture and Vale's hope to keep the peace between the SOS and UNSC

[thorn ember]

They'll have to lead by example, and it'll take a ton of work and a few generations to mend 3 decades of war and bloodshed. Hood's letter says it best. "I have to believe that the children of our children will one day see the best in each other."

[carmine sleet]

Indeed

[thorny gorge]

I just found out that Miranda is Halsey's Daughter

[carmine sleet]

Indeed she is

[thorny gorge]

heh??

so they just randomly made a baby in the middle of the Covenant-Humanity war which they both had pretty big parts in?

[empty bloom]

What's funny to me is that I think III and IV teams almost never seem to have this problem, relatively.

Osiris kinda did but it felt more like a gameplay problem than a lore one

Like

Majestic had

Leader Guy
Shotgun Guy
Sniper Guy
Obligatory 2011 woman Guy (I guess she was a Spotter? IDK what Grant's role was)
Cyber Woman who never actually does anything with it
The Noob

[thorny gorge]

what bout Reformed Alpha Nine

after mickey redeemed himself

like it was mostly focused on buck as the leader and doing a lot of the work

then Romeo was like

idk

Lady's Man

Mickey the Front liason

Dutch honestly i have no idea

[carmine sleet]

Romeo is a sniper

[thorny gorge]

oh yeah

forgot about that

didnt do much during covenant sieging earth

got sliced in half

killed a hugarok

gretchen

uhh

Pilot?

Dutch had a shotgun in his time as an ODST

[carmine sleet]

Mickey was the team's unofficial pilot and demolitions expert

Dutch was heavy weapons

[thorny gorge]

dam

where it say that

cause im basing the stuff on the Alpha 9 books

[stoic hamlet]

In ODST.

[thorny gorge]

ohh

nice username

tho trudeau isnt doing a great job

[stoic hamlet]

Well, aside from Saber, we don’t really see much of Foxtrot or any of the other Alpha or Beta company teams, but I think the III’s especially benefit from not being focused on, so they’re still in that “no team is static, it’s a pool we pick and choose from depending on the mission”.

And then the IV’s are generally varied enough in skill set that you can do anything with them.

[wispy pewter]

You know with the Unggoy being the most bullied alien in the covenant and banished... It's weird that they are still mostly hostile to humans

[glossy lantern]

Hi, I'm looking for someone who could give me family access so that I could complete achievements in the Halo Infinite company, write me a private message and is it even possible to get them this way? I mean steam players

[empty bloom]

Generational hate is very hard to break.

[ripe patio]

Just buy the game, get a gamepass trial, or wait for it to go on sale and THEN buy it

[carmine sleet]

You know, something I appreciate about the Bandit while looking at it side by side with Reach's M392 is that despite being the same rifle in terms of designation and overall design, there's some neat differences between them

Like the stock and barrel are shorter on the Bandit

Which makes sense when you look at real world weapons as the outsourced designs normally end up with differences to the original model

[high elbow]

I enjoy the Bandit’s design. The stockier, more bulky design is pleasing to me.

[carmine sleet]

It's not bulkier though

Like, the biggest difference in shape is that it's shorter

[high elbow]

The fact I’m wrong does not surprise me lol. Either way, well designed rifle. Feels nice to use after the variety of changes.

[stoic hamlet]

I personally preferred it before the fire rate change, but that’s true of the AR as well. The AR feels awful now.

[high elbow]

I think I need to play Halo more. I haven’t been able to super notice the difference, save for it’s a bit more inaccurate

[strange pumice]

I see no difference between old AR and new

[stoic hamlet]

Old AR you could tap fire with much more accuracy.

New AR you pretty well need to just spray and pray.

[carmine sleet]

So continuing on from me talking about the Bandit from yesterday, do we know when the M392 licence was given to Sevine Arms?

[obsidian thistle]

No.

We only have post-2558 cases atm

[carmine sleet]

Ah fair enough

[silk marten]

How many UNSC troops and personnel in total made it off the Pillar of Autumn prior to its crash on Installation 04?

[orchid kettle]

There are apparently like 200 ODST survivors according to The Flood in chapter two

You could probably safely double or triple that figure to account for all survivors

which I think actually decently lines up with ambient dialogue in the first level of the game, where there could be as many as 63 airlocks, many of which are apparently dedicated to bumblebee escape pods, which carry around 9 people each

the odsts largely made it to the surface via their drop pods, but when you consider that not every bumblebee would have survived the crash, I think it evens out more or less

[high elbow]

Oh gods, I loathe to think about any bee pods that missed the ring and got crushed by the gas giant’s gravity instead

[wispy pewter]

I wonder how many of the Infinity's crew made it to the ring

2000 died in space so there might be around 5000 left our of the 7k on board

then it seems a couple dozen Spartans already died in battle and probably half of them are contractors and non combatant personnel

[dusk jetty]

It’s implied there’s more survivors elsewhere on the ring, we’re just on the important part

[stoic hamlet]

The main UNSC landing zone was on a different part of the ring, yeah.

And then there are also members of Zeta’s original science and defence contingents, so (in a hypothetical everyone on Infinity made it to the ground, literally everyone) the total number of potential human forces on the ring is around 12,000

[wispy pewter]

Well I think I know what happened to the original human group on the ring

that one crippled ONI agent hovarth found gives a good idea

[stoic hamlet]

They’re still around though, even in 2560.

[wispy pewter]

I guess it's important because the only survivors are marines and master chief. While all the other named spartans and the ones in the book are in a different location

[silk marten]

There was also that ODST Squad, Fireteam Raven

[carmine sleet]

Raven died when Alpha Halo was destroyed

[gusty star]

You did not just say this☠️☠️☠️

[stoic hamlet]

They still don’t make sense, it should be said.

[empty bloom]

You don't understand, we need to add even more convoluted plot points into Halo CE.

Please don't talk about Fireteam raven literally fighting next to Chief multiple times in various hell rooms.

[stoic hamlet]

I don’t even mean that.

I mean just… them, like, how they exist.

[empty bloom]

Elaborate?

[stoic hamlet]

Them as a four man unit gallivanting around d the ring breaks the established ODST information from The Flood.

• What platoon are they with?

• What company?

• Are they from Alpha? Bravo? Charlie? Delta?

• Why are they not with the rest of their unit?

[empty bloom]

Hmn, fair.

I think they should've made some extra clarification on these special ODSTs in general like A9

[stoic hamlet]

Yup.

[orchid kettle]

Canadian pls, you know how many fanfics of mine are invalidated if a fireteam of four boys named after an animal aren't allowed to bounce around the halo universe without supervision

[orchid kettle]

343 seems to flip flop on the idea of A9 being special, honestly. New Blood especially makes it strange with how ONI is apparently concerned enough about Buck's mental health that they send him a government mandated gf, yet Buck is supposed to be surprised and betrayed at Dare being ONI

The encyclopedia is even worded in such a way that makes it sound like Alpha-Nine caught ONI's attention after a long record of above average performance, and became Spartans as a consequence, rather than like them being ONI to begin with.

Honestly the way I always saw it is that when ONI needs muscle, they just grab whatever ODSTs are hanging around, and return them to NAVSPECWAR when they're done

[carmine sleet]

Just explain it by saying they stole a time machine

[wispy pewter]

Wasn't it because they needed Mickey to ask the rebels the secret of whatever is avoiding the Guardians

[orchid kettle]

Nah, they're Spartans before that.

The vibe I always got from ODST is that Dare could have picked any squad on that cruiser, but ultimately chose Buck because they're exes

Of course you could probably argue that Alpha-Nine were at the very least already working an ONI job on that cruiser as part of storming Regret's ship, since Dare requests the ODSTs in a message to some guy from ONI

Granted that's from the ODST manual and Im not sure how seriously the community takes it. But it is written as if its an in-universe training manual for ODSTs, which is interesting.

[thorny gorge]

It wasn't avoiding the Guardians, it was more like hiding from them without doing anything.

[thorny gorge]

Didn't she end up saving their lives as well?

[wispy pewter]

potato potahto

[thorny gorge]

potahot

[carmine sleet]

Her changing Alpha 9's mission right before the drop is what saved them, but she didn't know Regret planned on jumping out of system while still in atmosphere

[cyan halo]

Do Spartans use the restroom?

[unique rune]

yes

[cyan halo]

How do you know?

[unique rune]

my dad's cousin's friend's dog's therapist's hairdresser knows a guy

[last anchor]

They're human

[tribal trench]

not typically

their suits have in built filtration and waste disposal systems, and they have a catheter so they can go number 1 whenever they want

[wispy pewter]

The Mjolnir looks way too compact to have an entire built-in toilet let's be real

[unique rune]

Modern day space suits have ways of dealing with solid and liquid waste, sci-fi future space power armor can make up whatever it wants to handle the same.

[empty bloom]

I imagine the gut bioreactor IVs have helped reduce the need for it even further.

[tribal trench]

hell, just burn off the faeces with the literal fusion reactor on the back and exhaust it out of any air vents

[empty bloom]

I don't think there'd even be anything left to exhaust.

I know Battletech basically does the same thing for its mechs.

Where the pilot's lavatory simply uses the fusion reactor to dispose of waste, from MRE trash to leavings.

Course, that's also gonna be the first thing that breaks, because of course it is. Military spec, lmao.

[tribal trench]

lowest bidder

[cyan halo]

Imagine them taking a piss while fighting the covenant

[unique rune]

Weird thing to think about but ok

[last anchor]

Unless your in a Clan mech. But most Clan mechs dont actually have those because the pilots dont plan to be in them for long

[empty bloom]

Some do, some don't. Depends on the make and model.

Most don't.

[tired peak]

Lol

[wispy pewter]

"reloading!"
"Cover me!"
"Taking a piss!"

[thorn ember]

There's already that parody from Robot Chicken that pokes at that joke.

Though the commercial for 5 was something that I couldn't resist chuckling about.

[bronze prawn]

so, why exactly did halsey lied to ONI or noble team about the mission back to sword base

like, they have to retrive some very important data

[thorn ember]

The original intention was to destroy Sword Base though Halsey intentionally changed their assignment mid mission to retrieving the package. Nothing new since the mission does change every now and then.

[high elbow]

Missions change. They always do

[empty bloom]

Not really how catheters work.

[warm lion]

Question. Do Spartan-ll's get paid?

[jolly lodge]

We already confirmed they did Jack.

But keep asking

[prime rune]

did the forerunners originate in caves

[low temple]

Whar?

[prime rune]

i was playing halo 3 and in one of the terminals mendicant bias was yapping and said

'you should've never left the caves you crawled out of

[carmine sleet]

Not sure you're meant to take that as a literal "Forerunners were born in caves" thing

[unborn patrol]

caves are what you have before building actual shelter so they probably were in caves originally

just natural part of evolution

[prime rune]

yea that was what i was implying

[carmine sleet]

Like, they no doubt in the early years of their species, used caves as a place to live on their home world

[hot zodiac]

It was meant to intentionally reference human origins.

[thorn ember]

Reminds me of Javik with the primitive remarks.

[stoic hamlet]

I mean it’s also just an obvious primitive shelter.

[hot zodiac]

Not untrue.

For interest, this is the actual text:

You are an impediment that the universe can no longer abide. Nature itself cries out for your destruction and I am its willing instrument. I will hammer your cities until no stone lies atop another. I will drive your people back into the caves they never should have left.

Your civilization has seen its final days. You will know your place.

[stoic hamlet]

MendiCAN Bias~

[wispy pewter]

Meanwhile forerunner artifacts can still be seen across the entire galaxy

[orchid kettle]

Isnt the whole thing about cavemen actually just like, survivor bias

as in, we find evidence of ancient human life in caves because its easier for remains to be preserved in those conditions compared to like, an open savannah or whatever

[karmic gulch]

Does anyone know what happened to spartan team Echo on reach?

[stoic hamlet]

We don’t know.

Kevin-A282 fought in Reach, and might have been part of Gauntlet Red or Echo, but we don’t know with 100% certainty.

[karmic gulch]

Thanks

[real kayak]

We know what happened to most of them

They're dead

[stoic hamlet]

well, no, we actually don't. That's an inference but it's never been confirmed one way or the other.

[real kayak]

I mean

It's pretty much the only plausible explanation

Who else could those dead Spartans on LW be?

No one

All the S-II's were occupied elsewhere

And most of the remaining S-III's were as well

The CAT 2's were few and far between as well

In fact

[stoic hamlet]

There were quite a lot of them, actually. There kind of needs to be for the numbers to work.

[real kayak]

Those three teams were the only groups of CAT 2's we know of aside from Noble Team that were present on Reach

Remember

These were the best of the best

[stoic hamlet]

But the only confirmed III team aside from Noble we know to be KIA is a team on Tribute. They could have been one of the listed teams, but we don’t know.

[real kayak]

Of the S-III's anyways

And again

There were not many of them

Plus most were elsewhere such as on Onyx

[stoic hamlet]

Ehhh, that’s debatable.

They were ones Deep Winter wanted to save, not exactly the best of the best. That’s pretty relative.

[real kayak]

Nah they were

[stoic hamlet]

For example Tom-B292 is an exceptional Spartan, but he wasn’t chosen to be saved.

[real kayak]

The UNSC wouldn't have wasted Mjnolnir on them otherwise

[stoic hamlet]

It’s hard to say.

They were the best by proxy of living long enough. That’s not the same as being the best of their companies.

[real kayak]

Sure,but he wasn't good enough

[stoic hamlet]

Remember Deep Winter wanted to pull Lucy out as well.

But we’ve seen no indication that Tom couldn’t keep up with her.

[real kayak]

Still

On Reach there were not many S-III CAT-2 teams present

And the Spartan Two's were all located elsewhere

[stoic hamlet]

From everything we’ve seen, DW prioritized them as children first, soldiers second. He wasn’t looking at their skills, just trying to find ways to get as many reassigned as possible, using any means possible.

[stoic hamlet]

The only two other teams that are unaccounted for are Strident and Anchor.

I’ll grant you that.

[real kayak]

Probably K- I mean MIA somewhere

[stoic hamlet]

At the very least we can 100% confirm Kevin-A282 survived Reach.

[real kayak]

Yeah,so that's one S-III

[stoic hamlet]

Alongside Jun-A266

So two.

[real kayak]

Tbh he should have been killed off

Now 343 is ruining him

[stoic hamlet]

Due to the way teams worked, we don’t know who was where, really.

For example Owen-B096 was on Anchor before being reassigned, but we don’t know if he rejoined them for the fighting in Sol, and Rosenda-A344 was on Noble before being reassigned. Teams are fluid and non-static, with no set rosters or compositions.

So “Noble, Gauntlet, Echo, and Red” could have all been killed on Reach but many of their members could have been on other deployments.

They’re all a ship of Theseus, really.

[empty bloom]

You'd be surprised at how much material gets wasted on the primma donnas.

[real kayak]

Then again if the Story ended at three and a new trilogy started up set around Red Team from HW/HW2 maybe I'd be fine with him surviving if they wrote him well

[empty bloom]

I'd hardly say Six's job of killing uppity college kids and training with aircraft qualifies him to be considered an elite spartan.

[real kayak]

I mean

He also made entire Covenant groups disappear

Alongside the fact

If I remember correctly

[empty bloom]

He never fought the Covenant in a confirmed fashion before Reach.

[stoic hamlet]

No, militia groups. As in Insurrectionists.

Even his Sabre claim to fame was against Insurrectionists on Mamore (RIP that planet, lol, they’ve been through the wringer)

[real kayak]

He survived a week after the PoA and just became a one man army slaughtering what was essentially an entire Covenant Army

[empty bloom]

Lone Wolf likely takes place less than an hour after the last other spartans died there.

[stoic hamlet]

He lasted another hour or two, at most.

[empty bloom]

Based off the placement of the bodies.

[stoic hamlet]

His date of death is August 30th.

[empty bloom]

Additionally, Six's last known position when he died shows that he was routed and ceding ground.

[stoic hamlet]

Well, tbf, I probably would as well. The position was nontenable.

[empty bloom]

Yep. He was likely manning the turret opposite the closest dead spartan.

Who likely died to the same air cover that kills you if you linger there.

[real kayak]

Yk

Speaking of that

[wispy pewter]

why didn't noble team blow up their fusion reactors. are they stupid?

[real kayak]

I think it'd be cool if during Lone Wolf

[stoic hamlet]

Mhm.

[empty bloom]

Real

[real kayak]

You had some survivors from that base

And you'd watch as they were taken out one by one

[empty bloom]

I mean

I wouldn't mind seeing Gauntlet and Echo getting canonized as holding the line there.

It'd make sense.

I also admittedly wish you'd see more Fireteam memorials in the game and such

Like having a map set on another orbital training platform (In a non-training area) with a plaque listing the names of the honored dead.

[real kayak]

Mhm

Though

I currently am trying to see if I can get the Author of the Vannity's HR overhaul to add that

So

Maybe we'll see something like that lol

[empty bloom]

In a mod, so...

Eh.

I don't really care about what modders try to headcanon.

[real kayak]

Hey, it's better then nothing

[wispy pewter]

they ain't gonna recover bodies until at least the 2580s

[empty bloom]

There's not really much to recover.

Honestly, it's impressive that Six's helmet was even intact enough to recognize as a helmet.

It's canon that glassing destroys almost everything, but has odd packets of cold flash as it messes with air that 'freeze frame' structures and objects.

Halo 5's audio logs on Meridian go into detail discussing the psychological impact on people who mine the glass off of glassed worlds and how finding certain objects that trigger trauma, especially for glassing survivors.

Such as leashes leading under porches.

[last anchor]

Is it really a waste if they get stuff done?
Plus its not like the UNSC has a lack of materials to make the armor, its just the process thats complicated.
They're swimming in metals and ores.

[empty bloom]

God, I miss Halo 5's worldbuilding. Infinite's logs tried but they honestly suffered from being so one-note.

[empty bloom]

(I was talking about IRL)

[last anchor]

Oh fair enough

It applies to Halo too though because their military is very similar to th e real world military

[empty bloom]

Exactly my point lmao

[last anchor]

Due to existential influence and such

[empty bloom]

Like

[last anchor]

Ignore meeeee

[empty bloom]

People tend to not realize that complexity is a resource factor

Specifically

It's a complication that affects the resource of effort, tools, and time

[last anchor]

Right.
Man-hours are the source spent

[empty bloom]

And you need tools to produce them, and in MJOLNIR's case, very specialized tools.

I like talking about the logistics of Halo because it simultaneously is absolute nonsense but non-hard factors (IE anything not mathematical) does make some degree of sense.

[last anchor]

Ive had images of something similar to this.
A Spartan Hall, on Earth or on Reach or somewhere else.

A somber monument standing seemingly in an open field, a single door leading in.
And along the walls are the names and statues of all of the fallen, every Spartan that could be confirmed to have been through the augmentation.

Each of the IIs get their own statue.
Each of the IIIs gets a name and place on the wall with their identification and face.
IVs get more personal components...and at the very center, an MA5 sits barrel down in a patch of dirt, with a MK IV helmet upon its butt.
A single tag hands from its grip

034

[last anchor]

Also, logistics is fun to talk about

Ask any Foxhole player!

[empty bloom]

I imagine it's likely more just flat names all around for the early IIs and IIIs, with a single statue for the entire program.

ONI wouldn't want faces and names public. Even first names. It's less of an issue with IVs, though.

Still an issue mind

Like

[last anchor]

I doubt civilians could see it honestly

[empty bloom]

You'd never see a single IV's face go unblurred

Ever

At all

[last anchor]

Right

This is a Spartan monument, by Spartans, for Spartans

[empty bloom]

"But how would someone miss the 7' person"

IDK man people get that tall IRL

[last anchor]

Theres literally a dude named realifespartan who cosplays Chief.

He is in fact that tall

[empty bloom]

Yep

[last anchor]

Also, like...every actor thats played Chief?

Im pretty sure Pablo is close

Sos the guy from FuD

[empty bloom]

Pablo is 6'5"

Pretty much. I doubt they'd make that significant of a distinction beyond the usual busts, and even then it'll be years before you actually see one because even making them is an OPSEC issue.

It matters less for people who aren't kidnapped kids.

[last anchor]

Right.

I do really like the rifle in the dirt bit though

[empty bloom]

There was a few memorials like that in deployed locations that were typically a rifle, two boots, a helmet, and a plaque for several people who died downrange.

Typically it was also one of the most uniquely set aside splinter-protected locations on these bases

[strange pumice]

I guess every basketball player is much closer to Chief's height than normal human

[empty bloom]

(Splinter protection is basically a big concrete wall that you can move with a forklift)

[empty bloom]

Worth noting that these were almost always set up in such a manner that they could be removed if needed in a hurry, because the bases were temp.

[last anchor]

Ive seen pictures of that before.
I remember one where there was like, 15 dog tags hanging from the grip of the rifle.

[real kayak]

YOU LIKED HALO 5'S WORLD BUILDING!? LMFAO

[last anchor]

Shhh.
The deep-nerds are talking about worldbuilding.

[empty bloom]

... Yes? It's literally the best in the franchise.

If you didn't pay attention that's a skill issue on your part.

[last anchor]

Also I just remembered we see rifle burials in the ODST trailer.

[empty bloom]

There's literally 2 entire levels entirely built around that concept.

[last anchor]

So we know the UNSC does it.

[real kayak]

I am also a nerd

However

It is so sad

[last anchor]

And yet, you seem surprised that Halo 5 has viable worldbuilding.

[real kayak]

That you actually like 343's lore

[empty bloom]

Most Halo fans aren't the kind of nerds who actually understand or appreciate that Halo 5 has worldbuilding.

[real kayak]

Because 5 is trash

[last anchor]

Thank you for saving me the trouble of explaining anything further.

[real kayak]

4 is also trash

So is Infinite

[empty bloom]

Okay. You can leave then.

[real kayak]

Everything after Reach is trash

[last anchor]

Im sure there's Bungie purist servers

[real kayak]

Change my mind

[last anchor]

Oh wait.

[stoic hamlet]

Not burials specifically, but the practice of placing bullet casings on the shoulder is apparently also a mourning practice undertaken by the UNSC.

[empty bloom]

Fake fan.

[last anchor]

Why would I bother wasting energy?

[last anchor]

They did that in Ghosts of Onyx right?

Or was that to the gravestones

[empty bloom]

I don't like tourists claiming they like Halo.

[last anchor]

(Related; real mad we didnt see those in Legacy of Onyx)

[empty bloom]

And then proceed to not actually know or care about it.

[real kayak]

Nah man, I'm a real fan,the majority of the fanbase at least dislikes 343

But

[empty bloom]

Majority doesn't equal quality.

[real kayak]

If ya don't like the idea of your garbage being...well garbage

[stoic hamlet]

The graves.

[last anchor]

Says the man with an Enclave flag, lol.
How does eating NCR boot taste?

[empty bloom]

I mean, hey, you're the one who said you're a Reach fan. Call's coming from inside the house.

[real kayak]

Then continue to enjoy slop

[stoic hamlet]

If there was one book Nylund should have come back for, it was that.

[last anchor]

RIGHT

[real kayak]

Tbh I like both factions

[last anchor]

I mean dont get me wrong, its great. But it had potential and they missed it.
Uggggh.

[real kayak]

Anyways

[last anchor]

Oh well

[real kayak]

343 is garbage

Their stuff is garbage

[empty bloom]

Anyways, yeah, it's kind of engrained into the culture of respectful soldiering.

[real kayak]

And Halo should be handed off to the fans or people who actually understand Halo

[empty bloom]

https://tenor.com/view/shut-up-man-will-you-gif-18636332

[real kayak]

Keep in mind

[last anchor]

When did it start? Earliest I remember is WW2 in the deserts of north Africa

[empty bloom]

Likely WW1.

[real kayak]

343 greenlit the Halo TV show

Which was

Objectively

So horrible that it's actually funny and sad

[empty bloom]

I forgot I can just make him shut up with a button press.

There we go.

[real kayak]

And the entire fanbase hates it

[empty bloom]

Sweet silence.

[strange pumice]

You gonna be muted man, stop it

[last anchor]

Yep, looks like it.
Also, the official name of it is a "battlefield cross"
TIL.

[empty bloom]

Actually, grave markers in general are old as hell, so... Technically it likely started earlier.

[real kayak]

For saying facts?

Sorry if you guys don't like having a reality check

343 shills

[strange pumice]

No, you're just trash talking

[empty bloom]

Bungie purist losers tend to yap like that, so it's not really unexpected.

[last anchor]

Wiki says first recorded ones were in WWI, but my guess is its been a thing for as long as men have carried rifles, and have had dead comrads in need of internment.

[empty bloom]

Ah well. The mute'll happen sooner or later.

[empty bloom]

I mean, I imagine people were doing similar with swords or spears or whatever years before.

[last anchor]

I will note, it might be kind of akward to use an MA5 as one due to the lack of an extended stock.

[last anchor]

The longsword does look pretty cross-like.

[real kayak]

Tbh 343 ruined Halo

It's dead now

Only kept alive by fans

[empty bloom]

Amusingly, most helmets in Halo fit preeeetty sweetly over of the MA5's stock.

[real kayak]

Who 343 leeches off of

[last anchor]

Marine helmets have the huge open bucket bottom so that makes sense, especially if you can hang them over the back side where it covers the neck.
MJLONIR helmets just tend to be so big they'd slide over the top I assume.

ODST helmets too

[empty bloom]

Yep, that's pretty much why.

[stoic hamlet]

Pretty sure this is it, yeah.

[last anchor]

Also, the M7's stock extends, so it might work well.
Though Im not sure how stable it might be considering the overall length...Im sure if you drove it into the dirt hard enough it would stay

[empty bloom]

I'd honestly just use a stick at a certain point.

[real kayak]

Honestly

[stoic hamlet]

The MA37’s and 40’s stock can extend.

[last anchor]

Speaking of the TV show actually.

[empty bloom]

It's not like the AR has a bayonet lug that'd just fix it lmao

[last anchor]

Note how the open section of the helmet fits over the magazine of the BR nicely

[last anchor]

Wait really?

[real kayak]

It's fake fans like you guys who have supported 343 that have led Halo to ruin

[last anchor]

I thought they just had the firm stock.

[real kayak]

And what sucks is

[empty bloom]

It's too bad the gun's already so damn oversized that that's practically superfluous.

[strange pumice]

Sorry for interrupting the conversation, I'm leaving

[empty bloom]

Nah, you're fine, he's the one being a problem.

[real kayak]

You guys can't even identify how bad 343 games are

[last anchor]

TBH "really big guns" are kind of an issue the UNSC has had for a while.
The M6 is a sidearm and yet apparently is the size of a dinner plate?!

[empty bloom]

I'm suddenly reminded of how irritated I am about Reach's grenade launcher not even having a wire stock.

[real kayak]

But if you support them after they supported that complete and utter disaster of a Halo show then you really are just a fake fan

Like

[empty bloom]

But then that's like, a misdemeanor against the felony that is the Reach GL.

[real kayak]

They turned Master Chief into Master Cheeks

[empty bloom]

@stoic hamlet Your message got zapped.

[last anchor]

The M319s existence is...
YEAH

[real kayak]

And

THEY MADE HIM TAKE OFF HIS HELMET

[stoic hamlet]

It did! I am very sad D:

[real kayak]

Which

[empty bloom]

I didn't get to read it lmao

[real kayak]

Should never have happened

[last anchor]

I lost one earlier by accident.

[real kayak]

And they say that you can't convey emotions through a helmet but literally all the Bungie games beg to differ

[stoic hamlet]

But yes, @last anchor there’s a very prominent “space” between the end of the gun and the butt plate… I just can’t post an image to show D:

[empty bloom]

Christ on a stick, is this guy still yapping

[last anchor]

I got you hang on.
Do you want the MA37 or the MA40?

[stoic hamlet]

MA37 is more prominent.

[empty bloom]

I gotchu homeslice

[last anchor]

Oh. So there it is...

[real kayak]

Yes,yes I am,as I have my right to freedom of speech and can say the truth as much as I Goddamn want

[empty bloom]

Look it up
First vid is that degen Garand Thumb

[stoic hamlet]

You can only really see it with the MA40 if you turn it in the armoury.

[last anchor]

Unrelated to above but uh...someone made a Star Wars fan-version.

[empty bloom]

Please never recommend Gthumb to me ever again, Google.

[real kayak]

Speaking of Star Wars

[last anchor]

Now thats a stock, haha. Its like one of those old Nerf rifles you could store the darts in!

Also yeah, ew...

[real kayak]

Somehow

It's become even worse then Halo

[empty bloom]

That reminds me of the Mauser in Battletech and how it's utterly ridiculous.

[empty bloom]

Alllso, that has the Halo 5 thruster nozzles on it.

Funny.

[real kayak]

Way too woke and with horrible stories throughout almost every piece of media since the sequels

[last anchor]

Heres the MA5D
Canadian was also correct here, you can see the extension latch, just to the left of the stock plate itself.

[empty bloom]

Developed by Mauser & Gray Firearms, the 960 was a Pulse Laser rifle that also featured an integrated grenade launcher and retractable vibroblade bayonet. Both the pulse laser and grenade launcher used the same trigger, requiring the use of a safety/selector switch located next to the bayonet activation button. Contained within the weapon's stock was an extensive survival kit, which included two two-hour emergency flares which doubled as fire-starters, a flashlight and batteries for 48-hours of use, a pulse signal stick with visible/infrared strobe light and emergency radio, a folding spade and a medical kit which included a two-day supply of nutrition pills and a five-meter length of self-adhesive bandage.

[last anchor]

Oh god it looks like a Stoner 63

[empty bloom]

A lot of Battletech rifles look like AR style analogues lmao

[stoic hamlet]

I do good! :D

[last anchor]

Was this thing built by the Taurians? This feels like a Taurian rifle.

[empty bloom]

Uh

No

It's SLDF vintage

[last anchor]

Oh well that explains the survival kit then.

[stoic hamlet]

As far as I know no other MA rifles have an obvious extendable stock.

Maybe the H4 MA5D but I don’t think so?

[real kayak]

Ewwww gross 343 AR

[empty bloom]

(Also @stoic hamlet seriously read this goofy text it's hilarious)

[stoic hamlet]

Also on the ‘37 and ‘40 you can really prominently see the rails under the cowling.

[last anchor]

They're far more skeletal as well.
I assume if you took all of the rounded plating off the 5 series they would look almost identical?
The Navy just likes their weapons to be smooth

[empty bloom]

It kinda looked like weaver rails back in Reach's day. I remember it annoying me.

[stoic hamlet]

This is the implication I had, yeah.

[real kayak]

Everything after 3 storyline wise should be retconned aside from HW2 as it wasn't ruined by 343 and actually has the potential to spawn some good games from it

[empty bloom]

They actually modeled most of the MA5D's skeleton in 5.

Having torn apart the models in blender.

[real kayak]

CUSTOMIZING WEAPONS!? WHAT IS THIS COD NOW!?

[empty bloom]

It's honestly the most exhaustively put together AR model in the franchise, it's super impressive.

[stoic hamlet]

See, if you’re gonna take it off, you take all of it off, please. Thank you H5.

[real kayak]

Tbh so sad

Like

[last anchor]

Also, this is the D from 4, so youre correct about the stock latch. Its present there as well.

Visually theres very little difference between the 4 and 5 5D however so thats not really a surprise.

[empty bloom]

It also lacks the scope cutout.

Which... I'll admit the scope cutout does kinda bother me in 5, lmao.

[real kayak]

The only time weapon customization should be present is in games like RPG's or something

[last anchor]

So thats what a fully stripped MA5 looks like.

Its like seeing a biblically accurate angel

[stoic hamlet]

The entire cowling should come off, IMO. I’ll die on this hill.

[real kayak]

343 has also just turned Halo into a COD clone

[stoic hamlet]

On the topic, I always thought the MA5K’s carry handle had an inter grated scope along with the ammo counter.

I hope I’m proven right, if the rumours are real.

[empty bloom]

Honestly, the fact there isn't a suuuuper cut down AR model in Infinite annoy me.

[real kayak]

That reminds me

[real kayak]

343 is so bad

[empty bloom]

I wouldn't discuss even rumors here, Canadian.

[last anchor]

This is the only image we have of it

[stoic hamlet]

Am, fair, fair.

[real kayak]

They only added a total of 2 weapons throughout the entire lifespan or Infinite

[last anchor]

I dont even think it was in the Encyclopedia was it?

[stoic hamlet]

There’s one in… Mythos, as well.

But it looks drastically different

[real kayak]

And focused on selling what should be game unlockable cosmetics

Instead of improving the game

Smh

Honestly idk why you guys support them

Like

[stoic hamlet]

@real kayak this is no longer relevant to the channel

[real kayak]

How much are they paying you to spread these lies about 343 not being a horrible PoS company

[last spoke]

This isn’t the place to yap about 343’s bad decisions

[last anchor]

Presumably it like the rest of the MA series is emminently convertable.
Misrah Armories is, after all, THE Military Industrial Complex.

Not part of. IS

[real kayak]

343 as a whole is a bad decision

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah, but if there’s one gun I never wanna see concerted, it’s that.

[empty bloom]

I wouldn't even bother engaging with this child's delusions, Canadian.

[stoic hamlet]

Though, to that effect I think GoO’s cover features two separate trigger groups/lowers.

So… idk.

Ah, it does yeah.

One with and one without a flash suppressor, and a different lower receiver.

[last anchor]

Let me find the whole cover for us real quick

[stoic hamlet]

I just wanna be able to post images D:

[empty bloom]

Gotta post more silly billy

[last anchor]

Man your FAST

[empty bloom]

Nah

[stoic hamlet]

I did, in the olden days~

[last anchor]

Close up of the second one haha!

[stoic hamlet]

Before I was… removed

[real kayak]

Ahhhhhh I'm being censored

This is against my rights as an American

[stoic hamlet]

Honestly of the two I think I prefer Kelly’s more, visually

[last anchor]

The weird "floaty" handgrip is a bit strange...

Also I am once again unreasonably angry about the lack of book-cover-accurate SPI

[real kayak]

343 is so scared of criticism they mute people who actually give them any criticism

[empty bloom]

I honestly really don't like the original arm gauntlets of SPI.

They just look so awkward to me.

[stoic hamlet]

It’s like one of those angled grips

[last anchor]

They chunky tho!
Good for bonkin Grunts on the head.

[stoic hamlet]

But like, not good.

[last spoke]

Does 343 live rent free on your head? Because it seems that you can’t stop yapping about them on the lore channel

It’s like ranting about modern day American politics on a channel that talks about greek mythology

[last anchor]

That said it does look very awkward and probably would limit extension.

[empty bloom]

It does. Just don't engage man, I've already reported it to the mod team.

Not much else to be done until he swears again or tires himself out with this drama.

[stoic hamlet]

I just wish the infinite version had the upper arm fully armoured

It looks incredibly bare,

[real kayak]

Hahahahaha imagine actually trying to silence criticism

[last anchor]

Something something "IIC" something something "different variant."
IIC being literally something Clanners say will never not amuse me tho

[real kayak]

The 343 moderators are shills

[stoic hamlet]

I do find the implication of it kind of funny.

It and GEN1.

Both are actually less visibly armoured.

But apparently they’re more protective.

How? I’ve no idea.

[empty bloom]

Different material mixes?

[stoic hamlet]

But with so much of the bodysuit exposed?

[empty bloom]

I mean, we don't have the best view of the GoO suit as a whole, do we?

[empty bloom]

Like, the Infinite one looks like it mostly just has less forearm plating; Even has exposed cloth in a lot of the same spots. Maybe the plates are better but lesser to improve mobility.

[stoic hamlet]

There’s a good front and back from Mythos.

[empty bloom]

Oh right

[last anchor]

Its way more armored. Then again, its also on a child soldier.

But even then, most of the IIIs were adult sized when they went to war werent they?

[wispy pewter]

the SPI is horrendously ugly

[empty bloom]

Ugh. That flat back kinda makes me wince.

Actually

Wow

The ergo on this whole thing does not look good

Okay so looking at the lore blurbs

[last anchor]

I see pinch points galore Im not going to lie.

[empty bloom]

Yeah that groin is rough

[last anchor]

I really hope that flat back is there because theres modular power packs/supply lockers/equipment for their use.

Its almost as bad as the back of Raskhasa

[wispy pewter]

ain't no way that suit doesn't make noise when cloaked

[stoic hamlet]

Ghosts of Onyx actually does describe them as shorter.

It notes when Foxtrot picks up the energy gauntlets that taller UNSC soldiers couldn’t make use of them.

[last anchor]

True, they can tuck down behind a Jackal shield

[stoic hamlet]

I’ll give IIC this, it fixes that issue.

But yeah IIRC Lucy is noted to have an armoured rucksack mag-locked to her backplate in… Glasslands?

[wispy pewter]

raskhasa having no black plate is annoying me

havent they learned what happened to Kat

[last anchor]

Thats apparnetly where she keeps her spare clothes, according to Traviss.

[last anchor]

Trench, if you'd kindly hand over your headcanons for why the Air Assault helmets contstruction was bad...

[empty bloom]

Ushuaia likely lost the contract to produce MJOLNIR Air Assault due to Kat's death.

As for why, it'd be a clear and obvious material failing; Needle Rifles shouldn't even be capable of penetrating an ODST's helmet under most conditions short of a lucky visor hit.

[stoic hamlet]

Weirdly I can… Kinda see it? I mean, not really, but like…maybe?

Definitely not in that scenario, but SPI (at least Kurt’s) doesn’t have a full bodysuit underneath.

It has three layers.

Whereas Mjolnir has two.

[empty bloom]

As for the backplate; Rakshasa has a fully armorsuit under the cloth a'la GEN2 from Halo 4/5. It's basically a naked techsuit.

[last anchor]

The cloth presumably helps keep grit and FOD out of it to allow it to be worn for extended periods of time.
Easier to maintain the undersuit too.

[empty bloom]

As Rakshasa was designed roughly when GEN2 was in vogue, it likely derives much of its tech philosophy from GEN2 such as the body-layer power core.

[wispy pewter]

cloth doesn't stop plasma though. But ig it makes sense for Spartans who would be on long period missions

[empty bloom]

Doesn't need to when you aren't getting shot in the first place, and even then it's likely resistant enough to survive a hit.

[last anchor]

And if it doesnt, it burns off and is replaced easily enough. Cloth and fabric are presumably post-consumer goods in the UEG

[wispy pewter]

I wonder how Mjolnir fix injuries? nanobots?

[empty bloom]

As for why it only has front armor, IRL shock troops, snipers, and machine gunners historically wore additional armor specifically on the front as far back as the Napoleonic war.

[last anchor]

Similar to how Osteo is literally field-compostable to avoid contamination.

[empty bloom]

Yep.

Rubicon Protocol goes into detail on the subject.

[last anchor]

As well as field expite repair panels.

Most Spartans in proper situations deploy alongside full field repair and maintnence facilities, like we see in Last Light

[empty bloom]

BTW for an example on this

[orchid kettle]

Nanobots are just in medigel now, and medigel is in biofoam

[empty bloom]

WW1 trench plate on British shoulders.

[orchid kettle]

so really everyone in Halo is being healed by nanobots

[empty bloom]

As you can see, it only protects the front and has no back protection. This is a Vickers crew.

[wispy pewter]

I think only Gen 3 Mjolnir has all that fancy stuff

[empty bloom]

It doesn't.

There were nanites as far back as GEN1 Mark VI.

IIRC Nanites were actually the original fanon explanation for how Chief 'healed' his armor in halo 2 and 3 lmao

[orchid kettle]

I think they've explained the regen field ability as like an airborne cloud of nanobots as well

[empty bloom]

At least for the Nightingale.

I think the Regen Field in 3 is actually something else

[orchid kettle]

I dunno if its supposed to actually be healing the armor itself though

[empty bloom]

Like, a shield jump-starter

[wispy pewter]

so apparently Spartans can go weeks without food. Mjolnir itself has some sort of supplements as well. Where are all these things even being stored

[empty bloom]

Don't worry about it lmao

I don't

[wispy pewter]

you're right

[strange pumice]

Meanwhile Chief floating in space for like 6 months: I am joke for you?🗿

[wispy pewter]

Dude was in statis

Apparently Mjolnir can do that too

Hovarth was also in statis mode half dead for months

Then after that he was fine

[empty bloom]

MJOLNIR volumetrically just

Doesn't make sense

Inherently

That's why I say just don't worry about it

[last anchor]

Its somehow still slightly better than Space Marine power armor.
LOL.

[stoic hamlet]

Pouches and etc. or up-armour rugs, like we see on Rakshasa.

[last anchor]

I mean in termsof making sense anyway.

Also, dont forget most of the suit can magnetize sections of itself

Not just the mag-rails on the back and thigh for weapons but the chest, arms, legs, hands and feet too

[empty bloom]

I tend to imagine rakshasa looks, in canon, like the Spartan is festooned head-to-toe in kit most of the time.

[last anchor]

The in-game models are limited entirely by what the coders, modelers, and engine are capable of supporting.
There is, literally, no reason a Spartan shouldnt be a walking armory and ammo dispensory, other than the obvious issue of taking a plasma bolt while carrying that much live ammo.

I am, and will forever, be mad that we heard about the Atlas-class MJLONIR and its integrated weapons systems, and whispers of a "Spartan MBT", and then...nothing.

I want my Spartan to look like the Thunderbolt Gundam

(Apparently Jorge's backpack in Reach is an oxygen supply, biofoam and rations for Noble?)

[stoic hamlet]

I really just want more stuff to be cross core.

Well… no, I want more Rakshasa stuff to be cross core, specifically, lol

Lemme put the drone on mirage, or the shovel, pls.

[obsidian thistle]

I would adore a "Primary core:" field for each armor item. Shows us what each item was made for or work on before cross-core is a thing! 🙂

[spark pivot]

I thought it was an ammo pack for his chaingun?

[unborn patrol]

most of what the human body requires can be stored very compactly. calories, protein, vitamins etc are easy to compact when taste and dosing them arent a concern

thing that takes most space is water I imagine

[unborn patrol]

I would at least want a filtering criteria in the armory for each component that lets you sort them by core

[unborn patrol]

I imagine the end game would be to have an armor builder that lets you choose the base pieces individually starting with the body suit under the armor pieces. you could then choose the direction you go towards. anything between an "athlete armor" with a clean paintjob, no extras and smooth amor pieces to a "war hero armor" with a dirty wrecked paintjob with all the tacticool extras and wildest armor pieces

its been interesting to watch the athlete armor thing develop as well. starting with halo 4s ricochet armor pieces and landing into today with there being coatings that are clearly not seeing real war use, but rather feel like a sport getup. all of the HCS coatings look like what a spartan athlete armor would have

[rugged linden]

Do you guys consider bungie or 343’s universe to be canon. For me the 2 are in there own universe’s

[meager pier]

I consider them both to be canon
Yes, there was a retcon with the Forerunners, but it comes down to if you like or dislike it
I get why some don't like it, but I enjoy it, as it expanded the universe

[stoic hamlet]

A more relevant/interesting (IMO) question is “are the games as they occur/work canon, or are they just an extrapolation?

Because, with how the universe is portrayed in expanded media, the games (and other visual media) really can’t work, as they’re portrayed.

[unique rune]

Bungie was constantly retconning and changing things anyway so I don’t see the point in trying to divide between Bungie canon and 343 canon unless you also want to start splitting hairs to the point of going “well actually there’s six Bungie Halo universes” or something ridiculous like that

[meager pier]

Hell, Bungie “retconned” their original intent for Halo to be set in the Marathon universe after the Microsoft acquisition, choosing to make Halo its own thing

[unborn patrol]

retconning is necessary when a title has been developed for so long and from the beginnings it has had. itd be different if the world building came first and game second, but its the other way around so of course there will be changes that need to be done later on. you accommodate what you can but not everything works out

they built the lore based on what the game needed. instead of making the game into a world that was designed

[meager pier]

Bungie themselves retconned/ ignored The Fall of Reach when making Halo: Reach, leading to some big inconsistencies
343 then brought Eric Nylund on to write Halsey’s journal to attempt to rectify the discrepancies

[unborn patrol]

just as an example if the world existed before the games, we would have brutes in CE

but the brutes were brought into the fold in 2 because they needed an alternative medium / heavy unit to replace the elites

[ripe patio]

Yep, I'll never forgive Bungie for completely rejecting The Fall of Reach. It was 100% an intentional decision (that was their legal right to do, but that doesn't make it any less disappointing)

It completely killed my interest in the Lore after that

[unborn patrol]

the games would always be the central piece

thats the risk you take writing a book placed in a game world

[ripe patio]

yeaeh yeah, don't care. They could have done any number of things to not step on The Fall of Reach / First Strike and they chose to do that anyways

behind the scenes we know that Bungie employees did NOT want those books written

[unborn patrol]

do we?

[ripe patio]

yes, we do

There were very vocal posts about them not wanting the books written. They didn't even want Halo Wars to be made

Them being "senior members of Bungie"

[unborn patrol]

if you as a writer write a book for a game series where the devs tell you they dont want it, you dont get to complain about it being overruled when a new game comes out

[ripe patio]

The writer isn't who is complaining.
The Fall of Reach was written and released BEFORE Halo CE came out.
It was the defining piece of lore that set out the foundation of the universe outside of the game, and mostly stood intact as the explanation about what happened UNTIL Halo Reach.

The other books are still the only explanation about what happens between games.
As a fan, it was an incredibly Not Cool thing to invalidate the book that had existed for a decade

[meager pier]

Eric Trautmann has said that Bungie didn’t like Microsoft putting out a book that gave Chief’s backstory, and wanted the book cancelled
Trautmann and other Microsoft made an agreement with Bungie: the book would be released on the condition Microsoft would help Bungie with mission dialogue, which they were struggling with
Bungie accepted

[ripe patio]

Microsoft also added the tag line "Combat Evolved" which got pushback at the time

[unborn patrol]

it does kind of feel silly now but I get that it was a descriptive piece of the name. literally next level combat

[ripe patio]

I mean, I get it. They made a game and a Lore and having your publisher say "hey these other guys are going to take your creation and tell their own tale with it because we think it will help sales" kinda sucks.

[unborn patrol]

it does

[meager pier]

And when you hear something called Halo, most think it’s related to something holy, so adding the subtitle was a smart move

[unborn patrol]

Id want full creative control of my own universe. which at that point I wouldnt have

[unborn patrol]

yeah the whole game was such an oddity so it helped to ground it a bit

[ripe patio]

But as a fan of the game, who was happy to consume any Official piece of Halo content, to have a game marketed on the same name as the foundational lore book, and have virtually none of the events from the book represented in the game, was scummy.

[meager pier]

I do feel bad for Ensemble, they were working on their own game, Microsoft swooped in and said, “you’re making a Halo RTS now”, and the dev team seemed to think Bungie thought the IP was being “whored” out

[meager pier]

Wonder how Joe Staten feels about the Forerunner change

[patent patio]

Idk but if halo 2 launched with the original story, things would be iffy

[meager pier]

Aside from the 3rd act being cut, some devs have said that scene may have been too on the nose with the reveal, and felt to reveal it in a different way, which we then got in the “you are Forerunner” moment in 3

[patent patio]

Wonder what halo 2 would've been like if it released the way Bungie originally wanted.
Probably would've been the best game to ever exist

[meager pier]

It certainly would’ve been interesting, though we’d still get the iconic post-credits scene of Cortana and Gravemind meeting

[empty bloom]

Last I checked he wasn't a fan of it but did accept it.

One of those things that wasn't really in his wheelhouse to worry about anymore and just kinda accepted.

[empty bloom]

I doubt that very much.

[patent patio]

Agree to disagree

[empty bloom]

You start to see the major effects of scope creep pretty quickly on in 2

For the time

[patent patio]

That's why I said if

[empty bloom]

And if every game got to release 'as imagined' it'd be the greatest game if all time.

Eh. It's a hyperbolic statement.

[patent patio]

Meh

I mean who knows

Maybe in a different universe Halo 2 was the best game in history

[empty bloom]

Glad it ain't this one.

But if we're playing childish statements I'm sure there's one where I agree

[patent patio]

Your glad this game didn't reach it's full potential?

[empty bloom]

If that's how you wanna take it, sure.

[patent patio]

👍

[empty bloom]

Not really what I said, but hey, it's your cognition.

[patent patio]

That's why I'm asking bruh

:u

[empty bloom]

You didn't ask. You said 'you're glad'

[patent patio]

With a question mark at the end

[hot zodiac]

Trenchbird is just glad there's no forerunner skeleton

[empty bloom]

That implies from the word go that I'm saying that I'm glad, it's how it's stated.

[patent patio]

Lol

[hot zodiac]

You don't need to worry about it

[patent patio]

You just said you were glad it ain't this one

What???

[empty bloom]

Yes, I am glad I am not in an alternate universe.

[patent patio]

I mean technically you wouldn't know lol

[empty bloom]

Where gaming peaked with a title from 2004.

Instead of improving.

Sounds like a depressing gaming market.

[meager pier]

I wouldn’t be surprised if even thought he wasn’t a fan of the change, he thought Greg Bear wrote an excellent trilogy of novels

[patent patio]

That doesn't mean the new incoming games wouldn't be fun

👀

[empty bloom]

From what little I've heard, that sounds like the case.

Funny enough I'm not a fan of the Bear novels.

[patent patio]

I wouldn't say gaming has improved either in these couple of years :l

[meager pier]

“What the hell did you just say?!”
Jk, to each their own

[empty bloom]

It's not that I think they're bad, per say, just kinda felt like too strongly certain of a story to tell on the Forerunners that fast.

Bad call, good books.

[hot zodiac]

By the time 343i was writing their version of the Forerunner story Staten had already most likely made peace with Halo going off in different directions.

[patent patio]

As they were making Destiny now BTW too

[empty bloom]

He did when he let that hack Donnell touch the script.

[patent patio]

What happened with Marathon? The one that got announced like a year ago

[empty bloom]

Lead guy got axed for SA, I know that much.

[patent patio]

So Marathon is gone ig

[empty bloom]

It's Bungie. They have a nasty habit of being a cockroach against all odds.

They'll be fine.

[hot zodiac]

For the record: Marty just made some suggestions. Rob Stokes, and then Joe Staten returning later, wrote Halo 3's script

[ripe patio]

Halo 2 is regularly in the top 50 of "top 100 games of all time" lists; Maybe more time to cook would have made a better game (for sure better balanced Legendary lol)