lore-and-universe

[wispy pewter]

There isn't any

Spartans are the best of the best

[thorn spindle]

pretty cool title

[empty bloom]

Good thing it isn't handed out that freely.

[orchid kettle]

Actually, there's a funny moment in The Fall of Reach where Keyes calls FLEETCOM HQ on Earth, talks to a Vice Admiral, and that very same Vice Admiral pulls up to Sigma Octanus within 24 hours

I honestly figure that even if the UNSC didn't get significantly faster over the course of the war, the idea that the Covenant supposedly wipe out the outer colonies first as they meticulously hone in on Earth means that there's less distance to travel overall as the only worlds left to defend are those easily reachable within a couple weeks instead of a couple months

compared to like, Johnson spending a large chunk of his career hopping from Earth to far flung colonies like Harvest to fight insurrectionists before the Covenant ever appeared

I know the Cole Protocol is a thing and would extend those travel times, but I don't think we really have any exact parameters besides this idea of a "random vector"

but obviously it cant be a completely random destination or else ships would potentially be forced to spend 30 years in transit or something like that. For all we know the ships only need to tack on an extra day to their ship to see if theyre being followed.

[carmine sleet]

You do know the criteria for becoming a Spartan IV isn't "This guy got 5 kills", right?

[wispy pewter]

Okay so what did Grechen do that made her a perfect candidate

Even Palmer all she did in that comic was kill a few

[carmine sleet]

Batman is the worst example you could've picked because he is not a soldier, he's a vigilante who is trying to make sure what happened to his parents doesn't happen to anyone else. He's not trying to prove himself to someone to get super soldier augments, he's fighting crime because he has to

[wispy pewter]

Yeah well he started his training to become absolute peak human at a young age obviously.

[unique rune]

I mean, yeah, if you want to be reductive about it, sure. By that same token you could say all that John and the other children kidnapped for S-II needed to do was be the most specialest boys and girls in the whole galaxy to become Spartans.

Palmer didn’t “just” kill a handful of Covies and get Spartan powers like a COD killstreak, her whole deal would probably be that she has a service record that “consistently demonstrates resilience and adaptability against overwhelming odds” or something like that.

[carmine sleet]

Ok... That doesn't change anything about what I said

[median vault]

Hey yall I got a question

what happened before 110000 bce ? Is there any way I can read about it?

[wispy pewter]

You can play Halo 4 or read the forerunner trilogy

[orchid kettle]

To be fair, Initiation is also just really bad at trying to convince you that Palmer is Spartan Commander material

It makes it pretty clear that her "issue" is that she "rushes ahead and claims glory for herself"

But her resolving the Innie problem and proving she's worthy of being Commander is when she...

checks notes

1v1s the Innie leader and beats them in a fist fight

Im not entirely sure how that proves she's gotten over her core issue of being a gloryhound but okay

[wispy pewter]

Well they weren't just "special"
They needed to fit in a genetic criteria that was 1 in a billion.
As Halsey puts it, they are superior both psychologically and physiologically

Like if any ordinary ODST can be a Spartan, why is there even the ODST

It kinda cheapens them a little....

[carmine sleet]

Please tell me you don't subscribe to the theory that ODSTs were replaced with Spartan IVs

[wispy pewter]

It makes sense to replace cannon fodder with one man army super soldier right

Maybe they should replace the ODSTs. Hmmm. If they can have thousands of IVs

Do we even have info on how much the augmentations cost and each Gen 3 Mjolnir costs. Because they seem to keep writing in new Spartan characters every time

[empty bloom]

Sometimes the things you say are confusing enough to hurt.

[orchid kettle]

if ODSTs were replaced, how else would we measure power levels

it is thanks to their valiant sacrifice that we know that 1 Sharquoi equals 100 ODSTs, and 16 ODSTs equal 1 Spartan

or however much it was, I don't remember what Silent Storm said

[wispy pewter]

im telling you the UNSC should have just sent Cal to take out that prophet

she wouldn't have died and mission would have been completed

[unique rune]

And all purely by random chance and no merit of their own. How about that. Didn’t even earn their way into the program, the slackers.

[stoic hamlet]

Originally they said it was 24 ODST’s to 1 Spartan.

But by the end of their training exercises (before Johnson took over) the ODST’s had gotten it down to 5-1.

Once Johnson took over the casualty rates for the ODST’s soared, but the Spartans never won an exercise.

[orchid kettle]

Alpha-Nine as good as one Spud confirmed?

[high elbow]

Didn’t alpha nine become a bunch of spuds?

[orchid kettle]

Assuming they're actually good at their job, of course. Media seems real confused on whether or not Alpha-Nine is your average ODST unit, or some highly skilled specialized thing

even before they became spuds

[stoic hamlet]

They’re definitely not average.

Their composition doesn’t align to any other unit we’ve seen.

[orchid kettle]

Barring Mickey and Rook, their members seem pretty high quality, yeah

[stoic hamlet]

Except Fireteam Raven.

Oh I meant like, number wise.

[high elbow]

Rookie was good. Except the whole dying thing I mean

[orchid kettle]

Alpha-Five had five bois

[stoic hamlet]

Ah, so they did.

So that’s….3 examples.

I guess The Babysitter as well. Hrmmm

[orchid kettle]

Second Squad from Day At The Beach did too, since one of them died in the crash

[stoic hamlet]

4

*4 examples.

[orchid kettle]

Babysitter I think only had 4 like Raven, but we do have Sunray 1-1

its real funny because it feels like the difference between an odst fireteam and a "squad" is just the one extra guy

[stoic hamlet]

Sunray were a command unit though, and probably understrength.

[orchid kettle]

if you buy the encyclopedia's term for an ODST fireteam (which I don't for one specific reason), then technically neither Raven nor any other combat unit we've ever seen is full strength, besides Team Tango

Though Halopedia apparently has Team Tango's Second Squad at five dudes and it's First Squad at seven if I recall, but I assume not every member is mentioned in the book

man Team Tango are so weird. One one hand I can appreciate the deep cut, but that old bungie article makes things super confusing for ODST lore

"Odsts don't have platoons, they have combat teams, except for when they very clearly have platoons!"

[empty bloom]

There is absolutely zero actual indication of where Rookie's real skill level relative to the rest of his unit lies, so.

It's like, ODST's campaign (which he likely stealthed through 90% of) and maybe some snippets of short stories

[inland pike]

what you gana say bru?

[high elbow]

A fair point. It would make more sense for a jumper to sneak past ground troops than to murder everything in his path unlike much of the player base

[empty bloom]

Yeah, pretty much. You actually can sneak your way through a good chunk of Mombasa Streets even with Halo 3's almost unfair detection systems.

(It's easier than anyone thinks)

[high elbow]

Are you able to sneak past the enemies during Buck’s segments? Or do you have to kill them. I haven’t played ODST in a while on a difficultly that isn’t legendary

[empty bloom]

Nope, you have to kill them in that part.

You can theoretically dodge the Hunters, but only after taking out most of the enemies in the area.

Tbh, I assumed that ignoring the hunters was the canon outcome of that fight until it was confirmed that Buck killed both somehow.

[high elbow]

I mean there’s plenty of heavy weaponry in that area and maybe fire bomb thingies? I’m sure fire is pretty effective against a glorified can of worms

[stoic hamlet]

Considering how exposed hunters actually are they’re probably a lot easier to kill than the games actually make them to be

[muted raft]

Clearly because he fell for a girl with balls

[unborn patrol]

he mogged em

[hexed yew]

This is a server I like

I love learning lore.

[wispy pewter]

Yeah but every time we see the ODSTs they are still cannon fodder and the Spartan has to do everything. Like Vale in Netherop

Maybe they took all the exceptional ODSTs into the Spartan program

[thorn ember]

I can attest to that theory on the rookie especially given his silenced weapons and whatever survivors remained were killed either by the slipspace jump or by the brutes. Haven't heard much from survivors unless they evacuated out of the city in the mere day everything went down.

[stoic hamlet]

I mean, yeah?

It’s like Chyler says in Forward Unto Dawn, “ODST’s dropping in is never good”. The only time you send them is if things have hit the fan and everyone around then can basically kiss survival goodbye.

Now multiply that for Spartans.

[orchid kettle]

I do find it funny how in Denning's writings, ODSTs are the Spartans' red shirt entourage

and normal marines are clumsy babies that the spuds find themselves babysitting

I guess if it's any consolation in the former's case-- at least when they die by the hundreds, its just because the Covenant are that spooky, and less because they're just idiots

[wispy pewter]

Or they die before reaching the ground

[hexed yew]

That’s the thing about ODSTS they drop first feet into hell and not knowing whether they will die they don’t think about it only the mission then again Halo 3 odst shows what happened and there was more drop pods but there were more dead odsts from the covenant carrier going into slipspace but that would be Alpha Nine but there were so many more ODSTS that could have been there if not marines. This is just what I think and know. Correct me on any bits I might’ve missed or if I am wrong.

[obsidian thistle]

There were two other squads that landed into the city

https://www.halopedia.org/Alpha-Five

Alpha-Five who died

And this team who lived yet never got any lore at all.

https://www.halopedia.org/Unidentified_ODST_squad

Spartan Strike is cool

Story is all over the place but its cool

[carmine sleet]

Do we have an exact number for how many ODSTs were deployed to New Mombasa?

[wispy pewter]

dayum

[muted raft]

Why is Tom Muir even referenced in glasslands. Literally adds nothing to the story and is never brought up again in halo

[empty bloom]

Character used to imply that ONI was 100% willing to kill civilians if they didn't turn a blind eye.

A character doesn't need to be brought up again.

[muted raft]

It's widely known oni doesn't give a damn tho, they sacrifice entire worlds

[empty bloom]

Still a plot device.

It emphasizes that point in that book, which is the point.

[muted raft]

I guess, honestly not a fan of this author

Guess I just don't jive with her writing style

And the fact she spends a large portion of the book making every character hate halsey is just weird to me, it's like she's got a personal vendetta lmao

[empty bloom]

I mean anyone reasonable should hate Halsey

Her being caustic to anyone around her because of her ego is the smallest issue lmao

So I don't blame people for hating her when they know explicitly what she's done

Hell I think it's weirder when someone doesn't hate her guts

[muted raft]

Yeah, but comparing halsey to mengele is just mind blowing

She's a bad person, shes not supposed to be a good guy, but she's not that evil

[empty bloom]

Eh, I can get it.

Hate isn't rational. Irrational people don't make rational comparisons.

Mengele's experiments didn't teach anything useful for medicine; In fact some of the places burned down during that period of history were places likely more along in medical info than whatever Mengele's insanity was.

Halsey's clearly did, given the eventual IV program fixing pretty much every moral reason the II and III programs had for existing. But because she experimented on unwilling children, that connection is always going to be a valid stain on Halsey's life and history.

I honestly find it more weird that a random ODST who somehow doesn't know what Guinness is or what the SAS was, knows what Mengele did.

[muted raft]

"Russians don't forget their wars" apparently

I'll admit I really like vas as a character

All but that whole "I'm going to kill halsey" bit

But I guess that was part of onis mind games too, I hate when that makes sense

[stoic hamlet]

It’s not that mind blowing when you look at what she did.

I’m sure if Mengele had a journal too, he’d justify his actions as well.

Does that humanize him? Maybe, depends on your views.

But it doesn’t suddenly justify him.

Halsey’s experiments worked out in the end, but as pointed out by a number of people, that was retroactive, she can’t really take credit for that.

[muted raft]

But at the same time her experiments were a theorization, it was oni who told her to do it. Sure it's her doing and her design, but oni persecuting her and completely absolving themselves is just frustrating. But that's how intelligence agencies work, so it makes sense.

[stoic hamlet]

Her going AWOL and taking vital military assets didn’t exactly help her either.

And getting a battle group killed. But Kilo-5 the series never actually brings that up.

[muted raft]

Yeah, her whole saving Spartans bull was just dumb. And she deserves punishment for that, and that's what ultimately got her, but they never mention it in the interrogation, or really any other time, only brought up in the arrest

Rather than persecute her over what she was detained for they just grilled her for carrying out an oni sanctioned program

[empty bloom]

I should note that ONI is under no obligation to blame themselves for anything, ever, at any time.

That's a big thing people always talk about with Halsey that's always kind of annoying.

'Why didn't ONI just admit they had a part'

Well, mostly because they don't need to. And it would hurt them if they did. And Halsey was complicit whether she feels bad or not.

[muted raft]

Yeah, but in their own presence they won't even acknowledge it. Like osman forcing herself to demonize halsey even though she knows everything oni did

Maybe it's a coping mechanism

[empty bloom]

Parangosky specifically doesn't purely blame Halsey for the IIs. She's more mad about being lied to about other sections of the program, like flash clones and deadlines.

[empty bloom]

As for Osman, well, Halsey discarded her and ONI, Parangosky, picked up the pieces. Not hard to choose the one who broke you as the bigger demon than the one who built you back up.

Parangosky also explicitly ensured Osman would be her successor-she has a vested interest in manipulating how Osman feels.

[muted raft]

I can see that, she's allowed to hate halsey for that by all means, but staring the truth in the face and refusing to admit it's worse on both sides is kinda silly. Like i said it's probably a cope

[empty bloom]

Part cope, part justified and valid conclusion, part manipulation.

[muted raft]

Her way of staying loyal to oni

[muted raft]

Honestly I agree with halsey on the clones, personally I'd rather have closure with my child or what I presumed was my child than wonder if they're alive and had to live through the war

But it's also screwed up

Crap sandwich vs crap sandwich with a side of crap

[empty bloom]

Halsey's both someone who does and doesn't have a point, so I tend to lean more towards Parangosky's perspective; Either way the kid died to the parents, both hurt abhorrently but one provides cruel closure for marginal benefit.

It rings hollow, either way you're being a monster. Just feeling bad about being a monster doesn't make your monstrous act any less so.

[muted raft]

For sure

But for the sake of argument parangaski should be more mad about how much the clones cost than the mental anguish of the parents

Just don't think her argument with halsey was all sound in logic, but at the same time she's dying and wants to try and atone for her sins as well

[muted raft]

Why can I count more than 2 times when karen Travis called huragoks autistic children?

[high elbow]

Yikes. I’m more surprised her editors didn’t catch that tbh

[stoic hamlet]

There’s a ton of stuff in K5… Halo in general, that could only have been written pre-2015, I’d say.

Though I suppose it also depends on the author and series.

It’s actually kind of unfortunate how that works.

Arguably an author/writer should be able to write what they want, they need the freedom to do so, and in the case of stuff like that, IMO it’s mostly about the POV choice.

For example, had Traviss had the comment come from an actual character, or had the POV be in the first person, then that’d be fine.

But (from memory) the POV is third person limited, so it doesn’t work.

[last anchor]

Yep, she always writes third person limited.

Even in her Gears books and the RepCom ones

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah that’s the issue, at least to my eyes.

Though, I admit bias, having actually written a manuscript. (Hoping to start looking for an agent come September)

[muted raft]

Karen Travis' stories : D
Karen Travis' writing :/

[wispy pewter]

Lol aside from names like Drifts randomly, Roams Alone, Requires Adjustment....

I don't think the author meant it as an insult

[muted raft]

definitely not, but its certainly in poor taste

[stoic hamlet]

Again, it’s all about perspective.

[silk marten]

What was life like for the Forerunners before the flood came into play?

[drowsy mesa]

Today in Halo - August 14, 2552
RIP Jorge-052, UNSC Savannah's crew, and Rho 'Barutamee

[stoic hamlet]

Also, like, probably a lot of other people, lol

[obsidian thistle]

https://www.halowaypoint.com/news/canon-fodder-fleetcom-fiction

New lore folks!

A LOT of good stuff here

[fair hazel]

Sidney did get detonated...

no..

[stoic hamlet]

Actually, it got Plateaued

:p

[fair hazel]

O:

[muted raft]

i recommend reading cryptum for that, theres a LOT of pre-flood forerunner lore

more than i can describe on my lonesome

from the primordials, to the human and san shyuum empire, the human-forerunner war, the halo rings construction and testing, the captive being released, the loss of the forerunner capitol world, its a lot of lore

[wispy pewter]

rip those australians and the sydney opera house

UNSC can't catch a break

[last anchor]

They got British'd.
AGAIN

[stoic hamlet]

They can’t keep getting away with this!

D:

[carmine sleet]

Been reading up on the Harvester on Halopedia and it mentions that there's multiple design patterns for them with the Za'zayara pattern obviously being this one. Has me wondering what other variants of Harvester look like

Also, and this is just based on how we have only seen it stationary but when looking at the whole thing, I think the legs are less there for movement and more for stability. Like the Covenant would just drop it down for mining operations where they need it and retrieve it once done

[tired peak]

What martials are covandent ships made out of

And do thr banished use the same martials or is it different or altered in some effeinct way

[carmine sleet]

Nanolaminate

[tired peak]

And are the banished ships any different in some way or the same... or am I thinking of the worng thing

Oooooooh waittttt I meant engry sheilds

O that was a big flash of lightning outside

Ooooh 3 sec long rumble

O whoops off top

Uhh o yeah energy sheilds

What's the difference between banished and covandent engrry sheildsing for ships

[carmine sleet]

Energy shields are energy shields

[wispy pewter]

nothing I guess. But it seems that Infinity's shields don't exist because I have yet to see it

[carmine sleet]

Infinity has shields

They just aren't exactly effective when the thing hitting them is a large space ship with the same technology that is used in a gravity hammer built into it smashing into them

Especially since ramming ships isn't a standard strategy employed by most of the factions within Halo

[wispy pewter]

Ventral Beams in the comic didn't activate the sheilds either if im not mistken

unless of course forerunner technology shielding can't withstand that

[carmine sleet]

The shields don't turn on automatically, you know that right?

Like if they've been surprise attacked, the shields won't turn on automatically to stop any and all damage

[wispy pewter]

They are not on at all times like Star Trek ships?

[carmine sleet]

Pretty sure in what little Star Trek I have seen, they've had to put shields up after someone started attacking them

[wispy pewter]

red alert shields up is usually before going into battle

[carmine sleet]

That's if they know they're going into combat, not if being ambushed

[earnest niche]

I just finished Envoy. Holy moly I cant wait for Gray team with new team.

[carmine sleet]

I have been longing for their next appearance for years

[muted raft]

Same grey team from Cole protocol?

[empty bloom]

First cutscene, Spartan Ops

[wispy pewter]

Oh yeah when it T boned the covie ship

[empty bloom]

Pretty sure they are on more than, say, the Autumn class'

I think the Autumn class shield concept is really stupid.

[carmine sleet]

It is the same Grey Team

[carmine sleet]

Right but you still need to turn them on. No point leaving the shields on all the time, be a waste of power

[empty bloom]

Fair.

But of all times for them to be on... Well, one would assume it'd be an ambush they seem to have somewhat expected.

(The Infinity's escorts went down well before she did, IIRC)

[carmine sleet]

I chalk that up to the Banished slamming multiple space ship versions of the Gravity Hammer into Infinity

[empty bloom]

God. Why the hell is Infinite's story full of so many damn eyerolls.

[wispy pewter]

I can't tell how much I hate the idea of ramming ships in sci fi

morbillion of dollars of ship costs in designing ramming ships with the same outcome of a Mac cannon!

[orchid kettle]

Morbillion brute bucks

Its okay, the Grunt conscripts will build more

to be fair for the Banished I guess, the premiere Brute vehicle's thing is that rams other vehicles. And even the consistent gimmick with their weaponry is that it sports extra melee damage.

[wispy pewter]

We actually don't know if those rammers are still alive

they might not be kamikaze ships

[carmine sleet]

The Banished Dreadnaughts are built with superheavy grav-impact drivers. Given how messy the gravity hammers are when they smash into someone, it's not surprising that the Dreadnaughts do as much damage as they do when they smash into something

[orchid kettle]

The vibe with the Dreadnoughts is that they're like the Banished equivalent of carriers or cruisers, so they're probably not supposed to be disposable

[wispy pewter]

The cutscene showed a dreadnaought ramming side on as well. It should have broke the entire ship apart if what you said is true

but then we cut to the interior and no broken or entire ship shaking like mad

[empty bloom]

Hey so you know how there's like 5 big Banished ships in Infinite above you constantly

And the one that you board at the start of the game

[carmine sleet]

Two of those are most likely ones seen in that first cutscene

[empty bloom]

Yeah, those are the same class of ship

[wispy pewter]

in the book one got kiled in one Mac round

[empty bloom]

To be fair

It was a big MAC

A really big one

[carmine sleet]

It's not like Infinity couldn't fight back at all

[wispy pewter]

scaling wise the series 8 MAC is scary

they should put it on all ships

[carmine sleet]

She's a tough ship but not exactly designed to be taking hits from ship sized grav hammers

Not as simple as "slap it on all our ships"

[muted raft]

Wasn't a good portion of forerunner technology just huge wasted power? But they had reactors so efficient that it didn't matter?

[carmine sleet]

You'd need to ask someone who is more of an expert on Forerunner tech

That is sadly not me

[wispy pewter]

all i know is that the engine power is seperate from the rest of the ship. that's how they got away from Cortana in Halo 5

[orchid kettle]

Yeah the power and size requirements are probably pretty extreme and beyond the scope of anything that isnt the infinity or a similar vessel

heck, the space needed just to store all those mac slugs alone is probably nothing to sneeze at

[wispy pewter]

and and it holds like 10 mini ships inside

which is crazy

[carmine sleet]

That's a supercarrier for you

[wispy pewter]

next one should be even bigger!

[muted raft]

And docks entire frigates lol

[empty bloom]

I'm suddenly flashbanged by my irritation with people not understanding why the Argent Moon looks so weird.

[muted raft]

Multiple of them

[wispy pewter]

Infinity took up half of the entire fleet budget, as mentioned in the Kilo 5 books

they can use 100% next time

[carmine sleet]

1337, please don't go into budgeting for a career

[muted raft]

Half the fleet budget and a massive portion of oni budget if I read it correctly

They split cost

[empty bloom]

Honestly, Traviss shouldn't go into accounting either. The Infinity shouldn't have cost that much.

[muted raft]

Haha

And it's kinda silly they'd be making a supership when earth was literally being glassed, you'd think they'd be diverting all their budget towards the defense of earth

[wispy pewter]

Naval might is so important in the Halo universe but they focus on making more Spartans instead. Which is great also.

[muted raft]

"Wars are won on the ground" planet gets glassed from orbit

[wispy pewter]

exactly my thoughts

[muted raft]

I mean, all the Spartans have a reason to exist

[wispy pewter]

Like Halo 4 looked like that, Humanity rebuilding. Then the next two games 343 stepped on the UNSC again and again

[muted raft]

2s were for insurgents, 3s were for insertion missions where the unsc couldn't get their vessels, and 4s were half for covenant fighting and half for insurgents

[carmine sleet]

Well it was originally intended as a back up plan if Earth had fallen to ensure humanity had a way to survive

[wispy pewter]

Yeah they are great assets. But, counterpoint: would you rather have a thousand spartans or a fleet of Infinity class ships

[muted raft]

Should've known they had plot armor smh

[empty bloom]

Honestly that's part of the reason I'm partially okay with IVs taking casualties-it's not a matter of them being less skilled, it's a matter of everyone learning how to deal with a Spartan after like 3 decades of fighting them.

[muted raft]

Spartan 2s were hundreds of times less expensive than infinity tho

[wispy pewter]

it's not the spartans that's expensive it's the Mjolnir armor

[muted raft]

Iirc they were half the price of a frigate

[muted raft]

Yeah, that's what I'm taking into account

[muted raft]

It was either half or whole price, either way infinity is wayyyyy more expensive

[wispy pewter]

Rogue spartans shouldn't be an issue since we know armor locks are a thing

[muted raft]

Spartans are intimately knowledgeable of their armor, they can easily disconnect themselves from any unsc control

[wispy pewter]

I remember somewhere saying the armor costed around a frigate itself

[muted raft]

Or they could just have an ai in their pocket

[wispy pewter]

no man those armor locks is a stick on module thingy that Locke tried on Chief

[muted raft]

Ah

[carmine sleet]

Aye. Like it makes sense that Insurrectionist groups are trying to make their own super soldiers. If anything, I'm surprised we've not heard of Covenant splinter groups attempting their own super soldier programs

[wispy pewter]

oh man super grunts imagine that

[muted raft]

Like in ghost of onyx?

[carmine sleet]

Like sure the Prelates are a thing but those were a project that was sphere-headed by Prophets during the time of the Covenant for Prophets specifically

[wispy pewter]

in Halo5

[muted raft]

Ghost of onyx an insurgent leader, can't remember his name atm, knocked out all of blue team and had devices on their armor that completely restrained them

[wispy pewter]

I doubt covie aliens like Elites needed augmentations since they are not frail humans that dies if you touch them

[wispy pewter]

wow that is OP

[empty bloom]

Reminder that an unaugmented ODST snapped an elite's neck with their thighs

[muted raft]

👀

Odsts are like 300 pound hulks tho, at least in fall of reach's depiction

[wispy pewter]

lmao

[carmine sleet]

A neck is still a neck, just because it's on an alien that's taller than you, doesn't mean a normal human can't snap it

[wispy pewter]

Jul Mdama also almost broke an ODST's neck while restrained

[muted raft]

Fall of reach: mjolnir armor without shields completely burned through from one plasma shot
Thursday war: odst armor takes 3 consecutive hits and only smolders, vas was completely fine

[empty bloom]

Eh, kind of an early installment weirdness thing.

And the pistol was overcharged.

And the fighting was what, 25 years apart?

[muted raft]

The kilo 5 odsts also had experimental armor

[wispy pewter]

but then you have Naomi bullying Jul like it's nothing

[muted raft]

And thr huragok had access to their armor beforehand

[empty bloom]

I mean yeah, Spartans manhandle everything. Why did you think I thought it was goofy behavior to be pissed about Locke bodying a certain con artist?

[tired peak]

How did you know I was referencing infinity's fall?

[empty bloom]

Like

Seriously

At this point the most heavily emphasized thing about Spartans at this point is that like 99.9% of the time anything they're melee fighting is getting bodied

[wispy pewter]

He knew he mssed up when he broke that visor

[empty bloom]

Nah.

Actually goofy thinking pattern aaaah.

[wispy pewter]

I mean we know that Spartan IVs are though. But you're throwing arms with the master chief. Who did 343 think we would have sided with

[empty bloom]

I mean, I sided with Locke, but that's because Chief's boring.

[muted raft]

Chief getting absolutely gobsmacked by one brute, then Naomi meleeing 2 in close quarters and not even getting hit once

[wispy pewter]

and in the 2018 book when they went back to Reach Blue team destroyed a few brutes as well

[empty bloom]

Chief nearly getting crushed by a brute, and Stone ripping one's guts out after getting rammed into a wall by a ghost.

[wispy pewter]

and a weak Horvath defeating Gorian

or what is his name

idk

[empty bloom]

Early installments tended to have Spartans as weaker and Covenant as stronger. Nowadays it's mostly Spartans mulching everything until they get too bogged down.

Like, Spartans mulched before, mind

Which does, to a degree, fit gameplay. Melee is incredibly strong in Halo. There's a reason it's a crutch in gameplay.

[wispy pewter]

Osiris team is actually prety cool and the books made me like Vale and Buck the most

especially Vale since her armor just looks so cool

[tired peak]

Didn't chief amost die when he first encountered a brute during the Human-Covandent war?

[wispy pewter]

yeah he almost got crushed

but he used a grenade or something

Halo 7 should actually include Horvath as a playable character or I will riot

[muted raft]

I liked the earlier books, it emphasizes just how insanely lucky chief was, which was a big plot point

[tired peak]

O wait if brutes are allready strong. What if if get a augmated Brute?

[wispy pewter]

basically Atriox

[empty bloom]

And I absolutely hate bad writers using luck as a crutch.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[wispy pewter]

because we have seen Spartans destroying Brutes. But Atriox manhandled 3 Spartan IIs and then survived an upper cut from Chief

he is super brute

[muted raft]

How do you explain the games then? If it weren't for luck chief would be paste on the pavement

[carmine sleet]

It's time for Pluton to be made canon

[tired peak]

I wonder is there a master cheif cross over dlc in mortal kombat... imagine the fality

[tired peak]

1337

[carmine sleet]

Chief has never been in Mortal Kombat

[tired peak]

Whould be cool thoe

[carmine sleet]

Closest we've gotten to Mortal Kombat is Nicole in DoA

Or an Arbiter in Killer Instinct

[tired peak]

I have no idea what Game DoA is

[muted raft]

Dead or alive I'm guessing

But master chief as sledge in r6

And he's in fortnite 😐

[wispy pewter]

1337 literally fist bumped a chietain brute

and he survived

[muted raft]

Mfw satire

[empty bloom]

Bad writing lmao

Though some if it is beyond luck

Like, excuses can be made for CE, 2, and Infinite

3 is iffy, 4 is bad, 5 is a little iffy at parts

[muted raft]

Ong the only reason I like 4 is because the gunplay is so good

[wispy pewter]

to me it's not

[empty bloom]

CE and 2 both rely on Chief basically being a comically small issue compared to everything going on around him until it's too late.

[wispy pewter]

it's absolutely canon that 1337 is a real Spartan

[empty bloom]

3 has Cortana which borks everything up.

4 is... The while damn plot.

5 actually works just fine until you get to the Breaking.

Everything before and after the breaking is fine.

Infinite is... Well, best explained by Escharum not really trying to kill Chief all that hard, and pulling his punches so he can get his epic death win.

[muted raft]

Chief literally leaving all the survivors of the pillar of autumn to die so he can run around looking for Keyes

[wispy pewter]

Infinite is just weird since Chief did what countless IVs couldn't.

But then again he is the Chief

[empty bloom]

Not really, as I said-We know Escharum wasn't pulling his punches with the IVs when they made a direct attempt on his life, and the IV's game plan wasn't the same as Chief's.

The IVs also pointedly lacked good AI or air support.

[orchid kettle]

I never really vibed with the "luck" thing and every day I wonder if it was some weird allusion to the player's ability to reload a checkpoint and try again until the stars align and they get that perfect run

[wispy pewter]

I mean even if you take away Mortal Reverie, look at Bonita Stone or Kovan, the obviously couldn't match what the Chief did because well, they aren't the Master Chief.

[orchid kettle]

HtT kinda reinforces that theory for me when they have Mendez glazing Chief, talking about how no matter how split-second his decisions are, they're somehow always the right one

[empty bloom]

Nah, I'd actually bet hard on Kovan or Stone doing it with the same resources.

Including the legend resource.

[wispy pewter]

I'm not mentioning Horvath because that dude actually defeated a Brute boss

[empty bloom]

Y'know. The legend resource that had Escharum haphazardly sending units to be mulched in bad environmentsz

[empty bloom]

You do realize that's not the sole indicator of combat prowess, right?

Stone wrestled Jega to capitulation to win, he just got away because she had bigger crap to deal with than him at that moment.

[carmine sleet]

By that point, the Banished were in control, sure some Spartans were still out there but they were in armour that was slowly failing and in desperate need of proper rest. Chief spent six months in space doing nothing and as soon as he woke, Escharum saw him as his final legendary battle, caring less about stopping him and more about hyping him up and luring him to the House of Reckoning for a final battle

[muted raft]

It's really the only way to explain how chief could make it through ce without respawns lol

[empty bloom]

Not really.

The biggest 'how did Chief make it' in CE is maybe, charitably, the lifepod crash.

Or finding a way to actually slipspace jump away from the ring.

Everything else can be described as him being some random dude who wasn't as big of a deal as the flood.

[carmine sleet]

Like, Escharum could've easily ordered all his troops to converge on the areas where Chief was in an attempt to kill him. Especially if they got to Chief while he was in a more confined environment like the Conservatory

[empty bloom]

Hell, converging troops was literally how he crushed the Reverie.

[wispy pewter]

It's weird that Chief said he had a score to settle for the dead Spartans but then he showed Mercy to a dying Escharum

[empty bloom]

The entire reason that area's terrain is so screwed was because Escharum had that area bombarded with Wraiths for hours lmao

[wispy pewter]

It could be that the ring is hyuge and the forces are busy with other UNSC forces

[empty bloom]

And the Spartans involved were in a condition nearing Six's condition at the end of Reach

[empty bloom]

It's pretty pointedly Escharum doing it for sport.

[orchid kettle]

Even in Fall of Reach, I feel like the idea with Chief isn't that he's the factory default Spartan aside from his luck-- I think it's supposed to be his compassion that makes him a hero

[carmine sleet]

Heck, I would wager that had Escharum ordered Jega to kill him instead of shadow him, I bet Jega could've had a chance. Not sure he would win but catching Chief off guard as he's in the middle of doing something else would give him the chance to get an upper hand at least

[empty bloom]

It'd also fit Jega's MO for actually winning fights.

[muted raft]

But when you're playing the game on legendary (I'm pretty sure that's the canonical difficulty) and do a no death run you're either a pro or lucky

[wispy pewter]

It would be nice if Stone actually defeated Jega but the book came out after Infinite's story

[empty bloom]

There is no canon difficulty.

[carmine sleet]

UNSC forces that were spread thin, with barely any resources and little morale, they weren't putting up much of a fight at that point

[empty bloom]

Technically Stone did win-her victory goal wasn't to live, it was to stop the Banished from securing the ring's defenses.

It's also kind of implied by the fight she put up that she would've actually likely beat Jega too if he wasn't being a coward.

[orchid kettle]

According to the encyclopedia, Escharum hunted down surviving Spartans with Brute snipers, so yeah, give Jega a beam rifle and I don't think there's really anything Chief can do

[wispy pewter]

Elites talking about honor then uses cloaking tech to kill enemies

pathetic

[carmine sleet]

Indeed. Which is why I hope Jega is leading a contingent of Banished in the next game, because while sure he can toy with his prey, he's also very much focused on killing them

[orchid kettle]

Elites just seem weirdly averse to using snipers for some reason

[carmine sleet]

Oh that would be fun to see

[orchid kettle]

Its not even hard canon, we see them in Oblivion

they just don't mention Elites using beam rifles that often

[empty bloom]

IIRC there's like four who ultimately use them in the games. Random Elite rangers mostly.

Two spec ops elites also always use sniper weapons

In Halo 2 and Halo Reach

(Yes I am counting a focus rifle as a sniper)

[wispy pewter]

Halo 7 should begin with the Infinity's bridge crew and every named spartan in a UNSC controlled perimeter

[carmine sleet]

Infinity didn't have every named Spartan on board when she got ambushed

[wispy pewter]

pls don't kill Lasky

[carmine sleet]

Like, Anvil Station's Spartan crew was still on Anvil

[wispy pewter]

Yeah Imagine being able to play as Blue team and this time actually show their individual skill

Kelly gets x2 sprint speed

[carmine sleet]

Ok...

[empty bloom]

Kelly's not twice as fast lmao

She's fast but there's apparently IIIs and IVs in her ballpark

[carmine sleet]

She's definitely the fastest Spartan, but that doesn't mean she's casually running as fast as a supercar

[empty bloom]

She might tackle a warthog though.

[carmine sleet]

Oh I want front row seats to that

[wispy pewter]

you know for being a pro as assasination 343 made sure Locke failed twice

humiliated in the background

big sad

[muted raft]

Don't know how a spartan 3 can hit 60+ kph, their armor isn't powered like mjolnir

[wispy pewter]

wow almost as fast as my Honda

[carmine sleet]

He wasn't trying to assassinate Chief and the mission to assassinate Thel didn't happen because the Covenant found Earth

[wispy pewter]

I mean he was sent after escharum or Atriox

[carmine sleet]

Where did you hear that?

[wispy pewter]

Wasn't his helmet in infinite. He probably went after them

[carmine sleet]

It was his helmet, but the fact he lost it doesn't mean he was sent to assassinate Atriox

[wispy pewter]

I see

[carmine sleet]

We don't know much about how Hyperious got the helmet and we can't trust Glibnub since he was a propaganda officer for the Banished. Lying about Locke works to help demoralise the UNSC forces on the ring

And in general, Grunts aren't great at telling the truth

[wispy pewter]

I will take Glib Nub lying

hate him so much

[high elbow]

I would not doubt if Hyperious happened to find Locke’s helmet (or a spare idk) and just stuck it on his armor and made up a story that reached Glibnub

[carmine sleet]

Honestly also wouldn't be surprised

Like, my bet is Locke got injured, whether that be by Hyperious or someone else, and his armour was damaged but he survived

[high elbow]

Exactly what I was thinking. Could’ve been without helmet while eating, ambushed, retreated and just left behind the helmet.

[orchid kettle]

It's worth mentioning that all Kelly really says when she meets a III for the first time is that they move too fast to not be augmented, but she manhandles Olivia pretty effortlessly.

For IVs, all we really have I believe is Palmer claiming she can outrun a horse. That would imply speeds above 25-30 mph. Which more or less lines up with IIs running at around 35 mph fresh out of the augmentation procedure.

What's funny though is that apparently Kelly's waypoint article only had her run a lil faster than that (40mph) in GEN2

[muted raft]

I can understand 4s for the most part, but the reason 3s don't have a chance is that mjolnir enhances speed by a considerable margin, even if out of armor they were faster I'm armor there's no chance

[orchid kettle]

Well Palmer's statement of feat was probably out of armor to begin with since the whole thing is that they weren't given armor until Musa felt like they "earned it"

And 3's can wear MJOLNIR just fine. All they gotta do is be special enough to catch Daddy Kurt's eye, or survive the human covenant war.

All you really need for MJOLNIR is the reinforced skeleton and the reflexes to keep up with yourself

[drowsy mesa]

Today in Halo - August 15
2510: Thomas Lasky is born on Mars.

[stoic hamlet]

It is powered, not to the extent of MJOLNIR but it’s powered to augment speed and strength.

[wispy pewter]

Old man

[muted raft]

According to halopedia (incredibly reliable source of course) it's not

[stoic hamlet]

The header image, taken from Mythos, directly states that it is, so that page needs a rework, lol

[wispy pewter]

I mean the SPI does to a certain extent increase speed and strength. It should logically do because why else would you wear such a bulky armor

[muted raft]

Are there more advanced iterations of spi?

[wispy pewter]

There is Mirage and Spi II

And some SPI has shielding

[stoic hamlet]

Yes.

The MIRAGE program iterates on SPI to make it into fully powered armour, and specific Headhunter suits tested shielding and active camouflage (though, the latter is actually worse than what SPI has natively, so…)

[unique rune]

not powered
literally called Semi-Powered
???????

[wispy pewter]

If they can make Mjolnir have the same advantages as SPI there isn't really a need for SPI anymore unless for budget reasons

[muted raft]

Semi powered as in reactive camo

[muted raft]

Spi literally exists for budget reasons

[wispy pewter]

Canonically the Mirage has the same invisible technology

[wispy pewter]

I mean they have like cheaper variants of the Mjolnir either way

[unique rune]

Normal people can also wear SPI. That alone is pretty good justification to keep it around.

[wispy pewter]

SPI should be a technology belonging to a bygone era of the first generation of Spartan IIIs. They should fit all Spartans with Mjolnir

Especially since Gamma is only like 300

[muted raft]

Spartan 3s can't handle mjolnir iirc

[unique rune]

They can

[wispy pewter]

And D doesn't seem to exist

[unique rune]

Noble Team and various other special S-III units were issued MJOLNIR

[stoic hamlet]

They can’t have mjolnir have the same advantage as SPI.

SPI isn’t just a set of photoreactive panels, it’s sensor jammers, bafflers, counter-sensors, etc.

And, more importantly, it lacks a reactor.

Mjolnir has a reactor, that alone means any attempt to make it like SPI will fail.

[wispy pewter]

Owen and most of Noble team are literally 3s

[wispy pewter]

So Mirage would be less Stealthty?

[stoic hamlet]

It’s like trying to make an SUV like a race car. Sure, you can tweak it, replace some parts, but if you need to keep the engine, and body, then it will still always come up short when compared to a proper race car.

[carmine sleet]

Budgets wouldn't allow for that

[stoic hamlet]

To an extent. It’s a bit odd.

Because it’s said to be SPI… but also feature a reactor. At some point it’s technically no longer SPI and is now more accurately PAI, but it’s likely that it can swap out its reactor for batteries.

[unique rune]

Saying that SPI needs to be replaced in favor of MJOLNIR across the board is like trying to replace every single handgun in the world with an anti-tank rifle

Wildly impractical, costly, and entirely pointless because they're fundamentally different armor platforms made for different use cases

[wispy pewter]

I feel like the SPI was designed for budget suicide Spartans. And since we know that there are literally modules for Spartans to turn invisible to the naked eye already....

[muted raft]

They are budget suicide Spartans, correct

[stoic hamlet]

They turn invisible to the naked eye only though. That’s why you’ll never see SPI replaced, lol.

[unique rune]

SPI was already in development prior to S-III's conception

[stoic hamlet]

That too, yeah.

It was intended to be issued to ODST’s.

[wispy pewter]

That would make sense. Maybe the Mirage is an upgrade of the SPI with more protection and shielding and all the ups of the mjolnir system

[unique rune]

It was an existing armor project that worked well for S-III's purposes without the exorbitant costs of Mjolnir

[stoic hamlet]

^^^^

[stoic hamlet]

That’s what it is, yeah.

[muted raft]

So did the captured forerunner huragok not have access to the knowledge of forerunner armor? Because that would make mjolnir useless pretty much

[wispy pewter]

In Halo 4 or 5 there is a Forerunner based Mjolnir armor that is never seen or mentioned again

[carmine sleet]

It'd likely attract Halsey's attention if someone was manufacturing 300 suits of Mjolnir that weren't going to her Spartans too. Ackerson likely didn't want that

[muted raft]

I'm a proud halsey glazer

[wispy pewter]

I would say Mjolnir would have been wasted on Spartan IIIs that were being sent on missions they were gonna 1000000% die in

[carmine sleet]

You were just saying they all should've been given Mjolnir. That's a very sudden 180 you did

[wispy pewter]

They gave the technology to communicate while in slipspace but doesn't give the Infinity cloaking or energy weaponary

Those bastards

[muted raft]

Ackerson only got the 3 program because they were cheap anyways, he wouldn't get mjolnir no matter how much he wanted

[wispy pewter]

In Kilo 5 books they made the Huragok add cloaking to Tart Cart and the ONI ship

But not the Infinity

[unique rune]

They might? But generally speaking Huragok are probably of more use to the UNSC in dealing directly with Forerunner stuff than making armor that would likely be impossible to replicate with typical human manufacturing processes anyway.

[muted raft]

The infinity was a big stick to wave around. Why cloak it

[wispy pewter]

So it doesn't get ambushed and die

[high elbow]

Man, it sure would suck if the infinity got ambushed. You could make a whole game out of that

[wispy pewter]

Like I'm pretty sure the Oni frigate was like 100-200 meters long and it has full cloaking capabilities

[muted raft]

When it was made and deployed that wasn't even possible

[carmine sleet]

It's also highly impractical to cloak something that big. There's a reason the Covenant had to use cloaking spires to hide the Long Night of Solace instead of having that be something equipped on the ship herself

[wispy pewter]

Covenant ship aren't big. They are Huuuuuugeee like 28 kilometers huge

[carmine sleet]

They have ships in a variety of sizes

[muted raft]

Cloaking the infinity is like hiding an aircraft carrier parked off the coast of an enemy country, it's there to let them know what will happen if they f around

[carmine sleet]

But something as big as the LNoS is highly impractical to have cloaking abilities native to it

[wispy pewter]

I need 343 to stop bullying the UNSC

[carmine sleet]

Did you ask Bungie to stop bullying the UNSC? Because they were on the back foot in all of their games

[wispy pewter]

I mean Halo 4 was like great then they got totally destroyed in the past two games

I love the Infinity man. The design and the idea. I am disappointed it's gone

[high elbow]

The banished f’d around and found out what happens. Definitely did not end well for the UNSC

[stoic hamlet]

They definitely weren’t going to 10000% die on those missions, lol. I don’t know where this mentality comes from. Nothing in Ghosts of Onyx actually gives that impression if you read the text.

[orchid kettle]

Do not make me tap the sign

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/728805429517221980/1272948189523214428/Screenshot_20240813-110109.png?ex=66bf77e2&is=66be2662&hm=2705ed2d4f5ab9f355ba25cd82dfbb0b952e411e71e556d6765231b765af4745&

[stoic hamlet]

Well, I was referring more to the two missions we actually see. Casualties were likely but definitely not guaranteed.

The book says one thing then does another.

[orchid kettle]

I mean, less than half a percent survival rate is basically a rounding error

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah, but at the time Beta were sent (I.e, had the cruisers not been present) I’m not even sure a single III would have been killed.

The actual factory garrison routed even with air and orbital support already in play. If those assets hadn’t been there, would it have even been a battle?

[orchid kettle]

I mean you can argue that Nylund didn't set up the circumstances of the battles convincingly enough for your liking (I still think the long range drop pods are kind of an a**-pull myself), but I think his intent is pretty clear

[carmine sleet]

Hadn't Beta Company also been on multiple operations at that point also? Or was that Alpha who had multiple before suffering major casualties?

Been a while since I read Ghosts of Onyx

[unique rune]

Both had a few operations under their belt IIRC

[orchid kettle]

It was Alpha that did twelve ops over the span of a few months before dying

Beta's record isn't really mentioned in GoO

[carmine sleet]

Ah, roger that

[orchid kettle]

The argument is that the twelve ops are further tests of their ability

Similar to how Blue Team were blooded by having them go after Watts, while the UNSC likely already knew about the Covenant's existence

I assume the company was split into several smaller units that each went around human space doing a couple ops each to prove themselves before rejoining for Prometheus

if only because it's supposed to actually take time to get places in the Halo universe, but its admittedly an aspect that's regularly forgotten

[stoic hamlet]

The test seems to have been Mamore, for Alpha, anyways. Similar sort of situation.

After that as far as we know it was all Covenant operations.

[hexed yew]

What’s going on?

[wispy pewter]

the earth rotates on it's axis

as it orbits the sun

as the moon orbits the earth

[hexed yew]

I know that.

WAIT YOUR FROM THE ONE WHERE THE DINOSAUR STEPPED ON HOM

HIM

[spark pivot]

Huh

[hexed yew]

Hello spartan commander!

[hexed yew]

Dude that thing with Ackerman and parangosky I watched the tv series and sure it was absolutely BAD it did mention that which was good and seeing that was cool again I think I am just yapping..

[buoyant hamlet]

Where can i submit community lore questions?

[wispy pewter]

here

[high elbow]

When in doubt, blame Halsey

[wispy pewter]

ONI be blaming Halsey for a project they funded and requested

[empty bloom]

They didn't blame her for the project.

They blamed her for parts of the project she misappropriated funds for, and the way it was enacted.

ONI wanted supersoldiers. Halsey wanted children for it. ONI didn't care at the time. They're under no obligation to admit guilt.

[wispy pewter]

Didn't Keyes take part in the kidnapping as well

[carmine sleet]

He took part in escorting Halsey to meet with and assess John

[orchid kettle]

The implication in Halsey's Journal if I recall is that ONI was already aware that adolescents would be necessary for the augmentations to work, they apparently just waited for Halsey to come to that same conclusion herself.

[empty bloom]

That's... inspired.

[orchid kettle]

speaking of needing babies for augs actually

how the heck did the Janissaries get past that obstacle

because even with the IVs, it seems like the main way they became super was by scooping out all their innards and replacing them with new better innards

including weaving whatever material comprises mjolnir's undersuit into their musculature

[empty bloom]

Poor understanding of gametes.

Easy answer.

[empty bloom]

IVs do seem a bit different in that their augs seem, to a degree, far more physically invasive than II or III augs in terms of sheer Frankenstein'ing .

[wispy pewter]

I like how Rubicon Protocol allowed them to take a lot of damage and still surviving

but I wonder how do their bones regrow

does it regrow augmented or human

[empty bloom]

Same way your bones regrow when broken.

And considering that uh

They still use their armor

I imagine that it regrows with the lattice replaced.

[wispy pewter]

so they need reaugmentations when the new bone starts to regenerate

titanium doesn't grow naturally

[empty bloom]

Well, that'd be joints

IV bones are implanted with a carbon nanotube lattice.

The joints are titanium reinforced.

I imagine that the nanotubes is actually where they benefit, pound for pound, more from MJOLNIR over IIs.

(Lighter, more flexible/resilient than ceramic alloy, implemented at an even deeper level)

[empty bloom]

So-joint broken, replace the aug. leg broken, it depends on whether or not they managed to make the suit's systems capable of knitting nanofibers internally or if the tubes themselves can somehow do it.

I could see it happening passively, the UNSC should have the tech-and Spartan IIs and IIIs would have the exact same problem otherwise with their ceramic ossification.

[wispy pewter]

that nanotech undersuit is actually very advanced it seems

[empty bloom]

I should really write out an in depth theoryrant about how I imagine IV augs work.

Because everything I read about them really makes it obvious to me that the armor doesn't benefit IIs or IIIs disproportionately worse compared to IVs-it just seems like IV augs are designed to work with the armor more natively.

[wispy pewter]

They should explain how they managed to reduce augmentation fatality rate to near 0

[empty bloom]

Oh, that's easy

Can't have organs fail and have the subject die if your subject is basically legally dead due to how many organs you rip out in the process of upgrading them

That, and a lot of IV augs and their first armor sets (GEN2 Recruit) are designed specifically to keep the IV alive in the intermediary stage of acclimating to augs.

[wispy pewter]

I do wonder if the IVs requiring adjustment to Hellcat armor is genetic or augmentation related

[empty bloom]

I'd wager genetic. I'd go further and say Chief is likely the guy who would get the absolute most out of it due to Librarian's tampering.

[wispy pewter]

I think the IIs are closer to genetic supremecy than anyone else

[empty bloom]

Kind of a squicky way to put that.

I'd say they're closest to the genetic template of original humanity and leave it at that.

With the presumed 'junk code' in our DNA mostly being forced by forerunner meddling.

I wouldn't use the words 'supremacy' (after all, IVs get genetic tampering with their augs).

Chief likely having more due to 'accelerated' evolution, but not enough to make him the real deal. The implication would also be that Halsey's augs might've actually not helped with that in terms of making the IIs closer to their genetic forebears, just making their armor work.

Tldr

• Librarian implants genetic code that lessens the 'junk' DNA of a set percent of human population

• Halsey finds it and uses it to select Spartans

• Actual augs physically bridge gaps between 25th century humans and HFW humans, but does not genetically fill the gap.

• Augs mean little in getting Hellcat systems to work right; baseline genes do.

[unique rune]

really jumping straight to the eugenics today huh

[carmine sleet]

Really wish they'd stop doing that

[stoic hamlet]

DAYS SINCE LAST EUGENICS MENTION: 00

[high elbow]

Don’t mention eugenics on the internet challenge, difficulty: IMPOSSIBLE

[ripe patio]

The spartan II candidates were selected for genes that would give them superior resistance to being horrendously tortured, experimented upon, and turned into murder machines to quell insurrections.

[empty bloom]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-mr-krabs-ring-the-bell-ringing-bell-gif-16270849

[high elbow]

Selected for their genes? Huh. My copy of The Fall of Reach must be defective. It says they were picked for their Khakis, not genes

[ripe patio]

Ah you must have gotten the reprint where they crudely rewrote that

[high elbow]

Unless it’s some deep secret lore. Spartan II’s were initially picked to become the UNSC’s next fashion models, but quickly turned to soldiers because plot

[ripe patio]

S IIs weren't selected nor kidnapped. It was a program for parents to get rid of misbehaving kids on the sly. The discipline program just happened to produce super soldiers ( /s of course)

[muted raft]

Me omw to the palace of pain

[inland pike]

yo?

who plays reach?

and whats your favoret halo?

[high elbow]

“Naughty children ruining your day to day? Ship them off to Doc. Halsey’s school for the youth! We’ll teach them our values to be a productive citizen of the colonized world. That’s the promise, of ONI The UNSC”

[ripe patio]

"We'll turn your children into Super Heros AND pay you for the trouble!". ( Some of them may die, but that is a risk we're willing to take )- sound familiar?

[inland pike]

wdym

how come halo 2 was the hardest came on legendary?

[dense quest]

halo 2 came the hardest

also wrong channel buddy

[inland pike]

i know i just ask the lore on that

[high elbow]

No no, Spartans never die. They just go missing in action. Dont you remember the propaganda training last week?

[dense quest]

no lore, halo 2 was just the hardest

[inland pike]

but why tho?

[dense quest]

because bungie made it that way i guess

[inland pike]

oh?

oh

[dense quest]

yeah there’s no reason it’s that way it just is

[inland pike]

Ok

Thx

[carmine sleet]

Bungie just didn't have the chance to properly test and balance the game due to how rough development was for the game

[carmine sleet]

Just to add to what's already been said, the fact that the Jackal Snipers in Halo 2 are as horrible as they are to fight has been canonised via an elite group of them attached to Regret's fleet. However, there is no canon difficulty

[stoic hamlet]

Doctor Halsey is just Ms. Frizzle with a little less meth.

[carmine sleet]

Does she at least have a magical bus that she takes kids on questionable at best school trips with?

[stoic hamlet]

She’s got a personal shuttle, does that count?

[digital kraken]

No permission slips needed either 💀

[high elbow]

Less meth, more “This child is mine now. Have this flash clone that will permanently scar you and ruin your life” type energy

[carmine sleet]

Don't forget the side effect of some of those clones living longer than intended like in Daisy's case

[high elbow]

Side effects may include getting a very depressing Clonely Bear armor attachment

[last anchor]

I wish the bear was a weapon charm

[stoic hamlet]

I wish it was useable on all cores.

[high elbow]

It’s such a tiny thing too. Like you could probably do Yoroi Clonely bear easy

[empty bloom]

I wish the pineapples were all core.

[stoic hamlet]

Most wrist and hip attachments I feel could be all core with little issue.

I want the Rakshasa drone wrist attachment on more cores.

[empty bloom]

Me with util/battlebuddy

[stoic hamlet]

There’s two of them now, one on Mark VII, and one on V[B]

[empty bloom]

I obviously mean the cool VII one

And not the lame Vb one

[stoic hamlet]

Because, you know, they’re the only two armour cores to exist, clearly.

OSTEO, Mirage, and EAGLESTRIKE obviously don’t matter.

[empty bloom]

Nope, not a lick!

[stoic hamlet]

The upcoming UTIL: ORANGEWALK also sounds interesting:

UTIL/Project ORANGEWALK
Housing for taggant micro-drones.

[wispy pewter]

I mean Halsey picked those 70 kids for a reason

they are the next step in humanity!

[wispy pewter]

343 made one post weeks back saying how Spartans actually do die and they were being destroyed in the comment section

[unique rune]

that reason being they were the least likely to die or be horribly mangled by the augmentation process but for some reason people hardly talk about that

and half of them were still maimed or killed anyway
what a bunch of suckers smh

[wispy pewter]

I thought the reason is because they are extra special and maybe in a way related to the ancient humans more. Which makes sense they can use the Hellcat armor without having to adjust

[unique rune]

man all this geas/predestiny stuff really sucks

[high elbow]

What’s an OSTEO? Surely that wouldn’t be an armor core themed after HAZMAT styled armor and armor accessories. I can’t imagine the player base would use such a core at all

[wispy pewter]

it's literally Hazmat Mjolnir

which makes no sense since Mjolnir should already be immune to what Hazmat is

morbillion of dollars just to look like an AIM soldier

[unique rune]

That's... literally not how that works

MJOLNIR is general purpose assault armor. It's built to fairly survivable standards but it's not designed for the same use cases as OSTEO, which is designed for extra CBRN protection and easier/less costly sterilization between uses.

You're not gonna be able to efficiently or cheaply incinerate most of MJOLNIR's components in the event of contamination

Like, do you think surgeons should operate wearing Kevlar gloves instead of nitrile or latex gloves?

[high elbow]

It was also sarcasm, my comment was

[wispy pewter]

I mean if the surgeons aren't already wearing 300 kilograms of titanium alloy

but I would assume OSTEO would be like CBRN but Spartans

OSTEO looks so goofy

Gen 3 Mjolnir can already survive the radiation of outer space for months... idk what else it can't handle

[unique rune]

I don't get why the idea of hyperspecialized CBRN armor is so baffling to you considering there's plenty of CBRN attachments for MJOLNIR, OSTEO is just taking it to the next level for uses cases where it is absolutely necessary

[wispy pewter]

I see that in the Halopedia their role is combat engineering and explosive disposal which would make sense. But why remove armor plating for someone doing explosive removal lol

[unique rune]

...Because it's not?

There's still going to be a titanium-weave bodysuit underneath the outer suit layers, not to mention all the various armor plating already present on the outside of OSTEO

It's also not just a pure EOD suit, nor is it solely about raw protection against the elements. OSTEO is a suit designed for more efficient sterilization and disposal after exposure

[wispy pewter]

Actually it would make sense... but we rarely see worlds like Balaho in game where this suit would make sense

[unique rune]

We've literally had missions running through Flood-infested environments where OSTEO would absolutely come in handy

[high elbow]

OSTEO would’ve been good on High Charity, or The Library. Ya know, areas with crazy high flood presence

[stoic hamlet]

It’s also usable by regular people, giving it another leg up over MJOLNIR which is so niche and expensive I genuinely can’t see why it’s still being produced except because it’s iconic out of universe.

[empty bloom]

Why do tech illiterate and CBRN illiterate people keep saying this?

Oh right. Answer's in the question.

[empty bloom]

Real life bomb suits don't use a ton of hard plating materials because it doesn't protect against things like blast lung; They tend to consist of plastic, kevlar padding, and foam.

Still incredibly heavy but the material mix ensures better protection against explosives.

The most rigid part of this bomb suit is likely the helmet.

Osteo visibly mixes a bomb suit with a hazmat suit and MJOLNIR; With the presumptive material mix offering the best of both worlds.

[last anchor]

MJLONIR gel layer works very well at handling compressive and force waves as we see from Chief's dive to the surface of Africa in 3

[molten spindle]

Plasma would rip through that

[proper mango]

It shipped without proper playtests or tuning on legendary jamie ran out of time that's the irl reason. He mentions it in a talk. Don't recall which.

[empty bloom]

It wouldn't. Plasma does its damage through high heat and plenty of cloth protections are actually extremely heat resistant.

IRL bomb suits have fire retardant cloth layers and some heat proofing; Plasma wouldn't feel good, but MJOLNIR's gel layer is designed for things like that, and the armor has an innate system for gel layer refreshing.

[drowsy mesa]

Today in Halo
2511: Halsey and Keyes met a 6-years old John
2552: Happy birthday to our favourite blue cube, Black Box

[carmine sleet]

Please, they're our favourite blue cube who sounds like the original voice of Darth Maul

[proven glen]

Man the original trilogy from Truth's perspective must have been so ridiculously funny. Dude is riding the high of his life and the human that killed Regret teleports 10 feet in front of him when the covenant had no knowledge of humans teleporting before.

[tribal trench]

canonically if chief hadn't been so lucky and hadn't had that plate of metal from the Anodyne Spirit he probably would have broken several bones

like we see from the SII's dive to the surface in The Fall of Reach

[wispy pewter]

So does black box go by they/them or what. Also he's funny but by 2560 he is about 7 years old. Which means he probably joined Cortana or was deleted

[empty bloom]

Black Box was taken by osman, along with several other AIs, to... Ross-whatever's world.

[thorn ember]

Noble Six had a re-entry pack that helped with his descent from orbit and still sprained his arm.

[wispy pewter]

You know if Mjolnir could fire repulsor beams and fly, it would have won the war faster

[fading plank]

if Mjolnir mkiv was surrounded by ten colonies of bees red team could've killed Atriox on the spot

[carmine sleet]

Spartans are not War Machine from Marvel

[wispy pewter]

The original prototype was supposed to be something like that. Even had bubble shielding

[carmine sleet]

The HRUNTING/YGGDRASIL Mark I ADS wasn't a Mjolnir prototype

[wispy pewter]

Yeah I realise that now. But still badass though

[carmine sleet]

You know something I'd love to see more about, I would love to see what some in universe conspiracy theories are about the Covenant. Like we know the crazed army trooper in Reach thinks that the Grunts are just mutated humans forced to fight humanity, but what other conspiracies are there in universe

[wispy pewter]

The covenant is a deep state conspiracy! it ain't real!

[empty bloom]

IIRC one of the big theories the Covenant had about Spartans is that they were frankenstein'd dead humans.

This theory was also held by some members of the UNSC IIRC

[wispy pewter]

that one Revian who didn't even know who Chief was

[carmine sleet]

I do enjoy that one. And to the Covenant who see these armoured soldiers capable of fighting like demons, it makes sense

Though, only one Spartan can be said to have been "Frankenstein'd", so to speak

And even then, that's just down to her having been cryo'd and Chief finding Halsey on Reach

[wispy pewter]

The idea of using dead humans as soldiers is so Borg like, such a cool idea. But I don't think it would work in the Halo universe

[carmine sleet]

I wasn't suggesting that they should do that?

[empty bloom]

Cyborgs are perfecctly possible

[stoic hamlet]

The Spartans (all UNSC personnel, really) are Cyborgs.

[proper mango]

I think black team being oni zombies is a neat concept tbh

[carmine sleet]

I hope we don't see zombie Black Team. It'd be worse than killing them off the way they were

Like, we should've seen them die instead of it happening off page

[high elbow]

The last thing Halo needs is zombies. The Flood are so much cooler than zombies or cybernetically resurrected personnel

[proper mango]

Counter point zombie black team game cold open with the scarab in new mombasa and didact boss fight flashbacks.

Cuts to oni research facility AI tries to take control of subject 053. After being trapped inside a self destructing facility by created AI. AI quickly notes "oh it's cramped in here I thought this head was empty." Margaret's consciousness slowly reconstitutes in her neural lace throughout the game.
Essentially being a marathon security officer mjolnir cyborg by the end.

Sure it's not as cool as the eldritch horror of the flood but strogg and borg are still cool and post
"the domain, it's like the fountain of life for AI."

I just don't take the fiction that seriously.

[carmine sleet]

Black Team wasn't in New Mombasa

And like, AI controlling dead bodies is redundant in Halo when we know they can control suits of Mjolnir, as seen when Intrepid Eye took over Fred's suit, or when Dinh's was taken over by Iratus

[last anchor]

And the entire bit with the Infection mode in Infinite

[carmine sleet]

Aye

If anything, I would rather they pull inspiration from Doctor Who's Cybermen if they were to do messed up cyborgs as a new enemy faction or type in Halo. The whole thing with them is that they need to use live organics to make more Cybermen. But even then, there's overlap with what the Promethean constructs in that the majority of them are forcibly converted into something different to what they once were

[stoic hamlet]

Well, they can “hack the suit” but they can’t make it move on its own. A Spartan needs to be inside and be the one moving the armour.

[proper mango]

I thought the were on earth after operation blowback for the invasion?

Ya we know it can happen it doesn't make it redundant.
Particularly when the point in it wouldnt be an AI controlled suit by its conclusion. It'd be a cyborg. Like the security officer.
I'm not saying its the world's best story I'm just saying its within the bounds of the universe to tell it. Strogg and borg are fun so what the hell tell another transhumanist narrative on the thin line between spartans and machines. Ultimately comes down to execution. Halo5s and infinites premises are solid. But execution is more important.
The marathon trilogy do those beats brilliantly for example.

Not familiar with Dr who lore but sounds neat.

Prometheans could be made so cool with some art and audio changes to show them as human consciousness trapped in servitude in forerunner armigers. Wasted potential there is insane.

[carmine sleet]

Ah, thanks for clarifying, didn't know the AI needed someone in the suit to control it, not read the novel where Fred's armour is hijacked yet (Been trying to find it so I can but alas not got it yet)

[carmine sleet]

The Cybermen are a really interesting enemy because their origins are honestly tragic, they were trying to survive on their planet as it became inhospitable, leading to them replacing flesh with metal

And my hot take is that the Promethean designs are just fine and allot of people miss the cool details in them, like how the smaller organic looking arms help foreshadow the twist in Halo 4 about the Knights being made from ancient humans. They're also much more flexible in what their goals can be since whoever is in charge of the Prometheans dictates what they want to do

[proper mango]

Ya they sound cool.
Never got into who tried with each new Dr. But nope.
I did enjoy one episode it had those weeping angels they were neato.

And Ya intrepid needed fred inside the suit an empty suit is useless to the created other wise we'd have had sentient armours galore after 5. I'd hazard a guess that iratus is like achilies on board AI that drives a spartan mad with rage.

I think the prometheans need a slight tweak to their visual and audio designs but not drastic ones. I wish we got some more like the early transforming ones with more unique weapons from the h4 alpha footage.

[carmine sleet]

If you want a good grasp at what Doctor Who basically entails, watch the episode Dalek from 2005's Series 1

And I can't remember if I've seen the alpha footage of the Prometheans (Or if I have, it's been buried somewhere in my brain next to countless other things I have processed in the past year)

[proper mango]

I'll check it out thanks!

https ://youtu.be/BenBnhm-Ehk?si=BeuIZzl-g2GpJjmA
Prototype prometheans

[carmine sleet]

Thanks. And honestly, I think those designs could work better as a different Forerunner construct. Maybe if we get to see Prometheans again, those could be a replacement for the Soldiers

[orchid kettle]

bro hasnt watched the Halo TV show smh

[wispy pewter]

I mean necromancy with robotics like the covenant thought Spartans were

[wispy pewter]

The fact that the nova bomb was used to destroy an entire planet, and destroy an entire covenant fleet and then a moon along with a covenant controlled planet. This is a weapon that should have been used more, the fact that isn't is weird

[unique rune]

I mean. They had a very limited supply. And blowing up human worlds that they were probably hoping to return to at some point doesn't really help anyone.

[inland pike]

if the infiniti was the largest ship humanity ever made what was the largest ship the covenetn ever made?

[stoic hamlet]

It should be noted Infinity was the largest ship… but it’s not all that massive compared to Punics, which are only a kilometre shorter, and they made multiple of those.

[inland pike]

ahh ok

thx

[last spoke]

Probably the Long Night of Solace from Halo Reach or the Unyielding Hierophant from one of the books

[stoic hamlet]

I’d second the Hierophant, though we don’t know if it’s like the UNSC Hopeful.

[wispy pewter]

One class of covie ship is 28km long, the biggest one is their HQ the mushroom

[drowsy karma]

What do civilians of the various Covenant species wear?

Is that even explored?

[carmine sleet]

First thing that comes to mind is Inslaan 'Gadogai and how, despite being involved in Banished operations on Reach in Shadows of Reach, he decided to wear simple cloth garments instead of a combat harness

[carmine sleet]

Should also be noted that the Prophets of the High Council seen at Thel 'Vadam's trial in Halo 2 are also wearing robes (Like the one that yells "Nay! It was heresy!). But actual Covenant fashion isn't something much explored by the series

[drowsy karma]

A shame, that. Lots of worldbuilding opportunities there.

What to dress a Kiggy OC in🤔

[wispy pewter]

omg

I thought they were always naked

[carmine sleet]

Aye. I'm sure there's something I'm forgetting about, but sadly there just aren't many examples of civilian attire for the Covenant in what we've gotten

[wispy pewter]

I don't think we would ever get in depth lore on these species, Halo is more focused on the action

[unique rune]

they should make Sangheili wear jorts

[carmine sleet]

Is the company making them called Jort Jort Jort?

[unique rune]

yes

[drowsy karma]

I could picture a Kig-Yar in something like a sarong, and topless except for some item pouches and maybe a necklace of some kind

Plus a big knife and maybe a handgun

[exotic pike]

Could someone give me the rundown of the events from after cole protocol to before new blood?

[wispy pewter]

Okay.... long ago, the four nations lived together in harmony. then, everything changed when the fire nation attacked. only the avatar, master of all four elements, could stop them, but when the world needed him most, he vanished.

[exotic pike]

💀

[carmine sleet]

That's a pretty big gap to cover, including the events of the Fall of Reach and the original Halo trilogy

Is there anything specific you're asking about that happened in that time frame?

[exotic pike]

Basically, the finale of the covanant war,

[carmine sleet]

The original trilogy of games is where you see the end of the war, specifically in Halo 3 but CE and 2 are good to have for context as well

[exotic pike]

Gotcha

Thank you

[proper mango]

I get the impression his garb is like that of a monk not standard. He likes to be all Ben kenobi

[versed helm]

Using feats preformed with the Energy Blade from Halo lore: Name some of the most skilled Sanghelli swordsmen🤔 Above all others, I choose “Spartan Killer” Jega Rdomnai. He’s Escharum’s most respected soldier among others like Hyperius (who slaughtered a dozen Spartans).

[carmine sleet]

Arbiter Thel 'Vadam

[versed helm]

Meh. I mean, before becoming Arbiter he practically tied with a 14 year old Spartan II in melee combat. I haven’t seen much from him after. Meanwhile you have Thel Lodamee (originally Thel Vadam) who bested a young Master Chief (post teen) in a duel.

[stoic hamlet]

Reminder Jega’s sole kill involves a backstab against a gravely wounded, barely functional Spartan, and his original claim to fame he never even drew his energy sword (he had a carbine)

[stoic hamlet]

Thel never fought a Spartan II when they were 14.

He fought Jai, but Jai was 24 at the time. Jai was the first Spartan he fought.

[versed helm]

Don’t know where the second part came from. Quite clearly had the confidence to jump multiple Spartans. As the oldest Spartan Killer his track record is far more impressive then we realize. Also note he is the only Spartan killer among all the Banished Sangehelli. One Blademaster, Toha (something idk), is remarked as one of the greatest duelists of all time. Toha was bested by one of the mini bosses in a duel.

[versed helm]

Age I did mistake, but this was a very old mark of armor nonetheless. One of the Elites in Halo IV or V actually bested a Spartan IV in that one on one without weapons. Note a Spartan IV <<<< Spartan II without armor, but the sheer oldness and outdatedness of Jai-006’s armor at the time makes him inferior to the Spartan IV Halo IV/V

[stoic hamlet]

Jega’s backstory involves the short story Headhunters, where Spartan III’s were killed by the Silent Shadow. The story ends with a Spartan III detonating explosive charges, killing himself and the Silent Shadow.

The only way Jega could have survived the explosion (with the wounds he has) is if he was the blocking Sangheili on the far right (the Spartan’s left) with a Carbine. One III did die by an energy sword, but that kill came from the team leader, not Jega.

[orchid kettle]

Thel has also been shown multiple times fending off multiple Sangheili attackers alone

one time he was naked

[versed helm]

Fal Chavamee….

[orchid kettle]

for some reason

[stoic hamlet]

“Witness me.” drops robe

~ Thel Vadam, 2535, colourized.

[versed helm]

Oh, thanks for the piece of lore. After that he then spiraled and went on a rampage so… yea. Jega is pretty up their with statement and ranking

[high elbow]

Thel was just proving he is a true drake warrior by fighting everyone nude

[stoic hamlet]

My point is we don’t see it, lol.

It’s all told, but never seen. A missed opportunity IMO.

[orchid kettle]

Thel Lodamee is also really funny because if I recall, they revealed that the animation staff wanted this Thel to be Thel 'Vadamee pre-Arbitership, but 343 apparently had to tell them why that just wasn't possible

So Lodamee beating Chief but being stopped from finishing him off may have originally been a feat the animators wanted to give to Vadam

[versed helm]

Yup, this dude who bested MC was supposed to be Arby. However, retconning denied him of such a victory

I’d also throw Half Jaw into the debate

[stoic hamlet]

I prefer the change myself.

[carmine sleet]

Lodamee not being Arbiter is for the best. Though I do love that the Fleetmaster in The Package was the one that got punished

[carmine sleet]

He'd been singing in the shower just before, Thel told me himself

[stoic hamlet]

Oh, well that’s understandable then-…hey WAIT A MINUTE!

[drowsy karma]

Talking about civilian life among (ex)Covenant species has me thinking about interspecies relations (no, not like that :P) in the aftermath of the war, including Humans.

[versed helm]

I bet he was actually humming Warthog Run

[carmine sleet]

[carmine sleet]

Well the UNSC and Swords of Sanghelios have a joint operation zone and Anvil Station

Or Anvil Keep if you're Sangheili

[versed helm]

Fal Chavamee is also a beast. Taking down a company of armed Grunts, Jackels, and Elites as well as a Wraith, 2 Ghosts, and 3 several story tall Hunters with just Energy Sword’s.

[carmine sleet]

The Duel is highly stylised

I doubt he actually fought Hunters that were that big

[versed helm]

Only time I saw style was when he was spinning around like a Bayblade. Other then that the enemies (save the hunters) were pretty normal

[versed helm]

If Scarabs can get 3-5 times as large then why not some big hunters?

Already have Goliath’s (I think that’s what they are called) from Halo Wars

*some type of big hunter

[carmine sleet]

No, as in the visual style of The Duel is not meant to be representative of reality, it's more abstract compared to other depictions of the Halo universe

[stoic hamlet]

Scarabs aren’t the same as pure Lekgolo

[versed helm]

I mean kind of simple. Colony proved colonies of Lekgolo can be combined to make behemoths. These hunters aren’t out of the question.

[unique rune]

Supposedly that might actually be canon? I think Frankie or someone from 343 explained it as an abnormality due to differences in gravity and environment.

Though it's also one of those kinda offhand O'Connor statements that are subject to being ignored at any given time

[versed helm]

I mean, the animation style yea. But does that really take away what he’s actually done? I don’t think so. I don’t think this was your everyday hunter

[versed helm]

I mean, Goliath’s exist. Only logical explanation is that each hunter are actually fused bond brothers.

[carmine sleet]

"Unlike a typical Mgalekgolo pair, which splits a colony into two independent bodies, Goliaths are a Hunter-style body containing a single Lekgolo colony that optimizes brute strength over all other considerations, forgoing the typical assault cannon." From Halopedia

[drowsy karma]

Unggoy and (most) Kig-Yar also seem relatively chill with Humans when left to their own devices

[carmine sleet]

Also true

[versed helm]

Ye

[meager pier]

How many games do you think the Banished can be sustainable as a central antagonist?

[stoic hamlet]

Infinitly, if 343 play their cards right.

[unique rune]

so given 343's history, two games

[meager pier]

I'm guessing the Endless will become the larger threat, and the Banished will become more of a wild 3rd party

[versed helm]

I’m guessing they’ll (the Endless) co-antagonize with the Banished. The Harbinger was a boss level threat, I doubt Endless will be making up the enemies you encounter normally like Brutes or Grunts. Until Atriox dies, the Banished shall prevail

[meager pier]

I'm guessing there're only a couple hundred Endless left

[versed helm]

Maybe like with the mini bosses, their will be certain Endless who have found their way into banished outposts and taken over

Even several would be a big problem for Master Chief

[meager pier]

Curious if they'll have their own arsenal or just using Forerunner or Banished guns

[drowsy karma]

Waiting for ONI to become the next Big Bad

[stoic hamlet]

Ugh.

[carmine sleet]

We're not gonna be getting a mainline game where ONI are the main antagonists

I could see it happening in a spin-off, like let's say Rion Forge in an action adventure game akin to Uncharted where she's trying to find a Forerunner macguffin before ONI does

[drowsy karma]

The main reason they're NOT already is because of a convenient alien invasion.

[unique rune]

I feel like it's more because it wouldn't actually make for a very compelling narrative

[stoic hamlet]

There’s no real meat there.

The only way to do it would be to have them be logically right but morally wrong (which they already are) without going into comic book levels of evil.

[unique rune]

And then there's the matter of Halo primarily a game franchise, which would probably turn out pretty boring with a UNSC vs ONI thing

[stoic hamlet]

It wouldn’t be UNSC versus ONI either.

I feel like everyone who proposes this has no idea what they’re talking about when they propose it.

[carmine sleet]

Indeed

Like, yes, ONI is doing all sorts of morally questionable things, but that's all intelligence agencies

[high elbow]

The whole “protagonist fights morally questionable government/military body” shtick is well overdone anyway. Frankly I feel like if Halo transitioned to that, it would get lost into the sea of FPS shooters. Only thing that would keep it running by then is gameplay mechanics to separate it from yet another COD game

[proper mango]

Kusovai

[carmine sleet]

And you need to really make it personal for why the protagonist is fighting against ONI

[unique rune]

UNSC bureaucracy simulator where you start as a low-level intern and work your way up to reform ONI from inside/s

[high elbow]

Now that. That I would play

[carmine sleet]

Eh, just copy and paste the plot of Black Ops and hope nobody will notice

Knowing some people in the community, they'd take years to realise that

[proper mango]

I feel like halo is already lost in a sea of homogeneity tbh.
But halo wasn't ever wholely original either it draws earnestly from its inspirations and so ultimately if it executes well on the material any genre can work in the hole universe.

[stoic hamlet]

Again, it’s the idea of them being logically in the right but morally wrong.

IMO the best analogy is Star Trek’s DS9, where Bashir figures out that Section 31 plans to backstab their current allies in a war once the war is over, and he’s disgusted by it, but the Section 31 agent just looks at him like he’s a moron… because he is.

The major players in the war will all be weakened and the two largest empires that’ll be left (the Federation and Romulans) are both expansionists, so obviously they’ll come to blows, and the best way to deal with that problem is make sure it never occurs in the first place.

[carmine sleet]

Yeah

Like sure, they really shouldn't be doing that, but it's to prevent something worse potentially happening

Hopefully it doesn't include anything like MK Ultra where they were just drugging people, beating them up, claiming it works and then developing a dart gun that can kill trees

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah. And the paranoia is both the best and worst part of an organization like S31 or ONI, or Cerberus, or whoever.

They can’t take anyone at face value and have to assume the worst, but by doing so it means they can never truly trust anyone and therefore could end up causing the very thing they sought to prevent.

[carmine sleet]

Indeed

And with Cerberus specifically, they weren't even working with the human government in Mass Effect, caused way more problems than they solved (Overlord, the facility Jack was kept in, etc) and in the end, were helping the Reapers. The thing they claimed they were trying to stop

Plus it didn't help they resurrected that Shepherd person who headbutts Krogan casually

[last anchor]

Not the brightest choice

[hexed yew]

Huh

[wispy pewter]

It would be cool though, an ONI stealth game hunting high profile aliens

Oh as main antagonists

Maybe play as an alien double agent and we get a choice to help ONI or play as a sleeper agent and if you choose the former you get betrayed and shot in the end 🔔

ONI as main antagonist only makes sense if you're playing as their enemies. And no one wants a game playing as Rion Forge or Insurgents

[thorn ember]

I do think that the Battle of the Citadel awoken the reaper tech on the Illusive man since the prequel comic for him did reveal that he was exposed to reaper tech though it didn't really start the indoctrination process until then. There's yet to bean explanation on all the projects the Illusive man was supporting pre battle.

[thorn ember]

Yep. Established well through known history but that's not for here.

[kind kernel]

yoo its spartan 1337

[versed helm]

Interesting choice.

[carmine sleet]

So here's a question, and not necessarily lore per say... Do we see any vending machines during Halo Reach?

[high elbow]

Yes

Theres a bunch scattered about New Alexandria on both the Mission and Firefight map. I distinctly remember them because they had very silly soda names

[thorn spindle]

maybe gauss soda like infinite

[high elbow]

Plus, there’s the vending machines on the Pillar of Autumn, but I would see those not counting

[thorn ember]

They're different in campaign and Multi-player.

[high elbow]

True, but they’re similar enough that folks know which one i refer too

[inland pike]

what if the covonent wone the war?

won

[stoic hamlet]

Everyone dies because they fire a Halo.

If they can’t fire a Halo though for whatever reason the war would continue for decades longer, as they’d need to root out all humans that were left, and that would take a long, long time.

[inland pike]

So the war would be longer if the covenenent dident fire the halo rings correct?

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah. They made it a war of extermination.

Even if the UNSC collapsed the Covenant don’t win until they fully exterminate the humans.

And with the secret worlds the UNSC had, and Infinity, that would take a long, long time.

[carmine sleet]

I imagine that Truth would no doubt want a human held captive in secret for when they do finally reach Halo and fire it

[inland pike]

That makes sense

Yea

[inland pike]

yo also umm were there moa burgurs in halo

?

like in canon halo?

[high elbow]

Yes. There’s a few references to Moa burgers in reach and infinite I think

[inland pike]

so were the canon orrrr?

like were moa burgers somthing people ate?

[dusk jetty]

They’re on a menu on Exodus in halo reach.

[carmine sleet]

I hear they taste good

[dusk jetty]

Like a big chicken

[carmine sleet]

Not that I could eat one because I'm a vegetarian

[high elbow]

Yes. They’re cannon food items

[inland pike]

bru

well ok

is rooster teath canon?

bc there in halo 2 and 3 i belive

[carmine sleet]

Their logo was there as an Easter egg in Halo 2

[high elbow]

Rooster Teeth stuff definitely isn’t canon. They’ve got Easter eggs/references in multiple halo games yeah, but not canon

[inland pike]

ut what bout that one halo 3 easter egg?

but

[dusk jetty]

Marine voice lines with references are typically uncanon

[carmine sleet]

Those are just marines that happen to sound like RT people

[inland pike]

ohh ok

[carmine sleet]

Because they were voiced by them

[dusk jetty]

There’s one that mentions Darth Vader in halo 2 so

Would be messy for that to be canon

[inland pike]

really i dident know that

wait darth vader frome star wars?

[carmine sleet]

That's the only Darth Vader

[inland pike]

were can i find th easter egg were is it?

the

[dusk jetty]

The voice line is random, but an elite with an energy sword usually triggers it

[inland pike]

is it in a spicific mission?

[dusk jetty]

No, but I had it on metropolis

[inland pike]

ok good ima load up halo rq

what does the elit say ?

[dusk jetty]

The marine says it

[inland pike]

marine

ok

[dusk jetty]

He just says “Is that Darth Vader?” And then it cuts off

Usually when he gets attacked by said elite

[inland pike]

halo 3 right?

[dusk jetty]

2

[inland pike]

okanaversery r normal?

or

[carmine sleet]

They didn't change any voicelines for Anniversary

[inland pike]

ok

ima load it up rn

[carmine sleet]

The only things that H2A changed were the graphics, soundtrack and audio relating to the environment, weapons and vehicles

All the dialogue audio is the same as the original

[inland pike]

im loading metropolis

is it just me or did yall try to drive thru the tunnels with the wart haug on motropolis?

[tribal trench]

I drove through with a banshee

[carmine sleet]

So here's something, been reading about the Stalker Rifle and I can't help but wonder, is the Ultra variant's colours meant to be the standard colours of the rifle from back during the time of the Covenant? Or do ones from the Covenant era have a different colour as standard?

[modest crescent]

Jonah-B283 “If you think you can take me without losing a limb? Then you’ve lost your mind!”
(Jega R’domnai, a Silent Shadow in the film, gets multiple blown off by Jonah)

[empty bloom]

But Jega only lost an arm and two mandibles.

[drowsy mesa]

the Covenant Stalker Rifle probably was purple; the Ultra was used by the Evocatii

[carmine sleet]

Hopefully one day we get to see it in purple

[drowsy mesa]

Today in Halo - August 23
2470: Nizat 'Kvarosee is born on Suban
2550: Cairo Station is starting to be constructed
2552: The Siege of New Alexandria ends with Covenant victory and Kat-B320's death

[pallid knoll]

peak

[obsidian thistle]

I still love that I was able to get micro-lore from the Infinite Academy Tutorial! 😄

Stuff like this! Heathrow Airport in London evolved into a Spaceport!

https://www.halopedia.org/Heathrow_Spaceport

And the M25 motorway still exists...

Probably to the horror of any brit that has gone along that motorway

[carmine sleet]

I would be fine if the Covenant eradicated the M25. Just don't touch the M6

[obsidian thistle]

By the looks of things

The spartans who rescured Agryna saved it

[wispy pewter]

Do they still drive on the left

[carmine sleet]

That's the proper side to drive on

[wispy pewter]

I have actually not seen how a car looks like in the Halo universe

[carmine sleet]

You see plenty in Halo 2, ODST and 5

[wispy pewter]

Dang I forgot to buy ODST on sale

[stoic hamlet]

Reach as well, though just the Spade.

[carmine sleet]

Aye

[warm ridge]

I wouldn't be surprised if this was just an oversite ngl

[half marsh]

One other real question 🙋🏽‍♀️ I know the harbinger isn’t an endless but are the skimmers endless

[warm ridge]

halo infinite to, couple MP maps feature trucks & you can spawn a bunch of different ones in forge to

[half marsh]

Cuz I thought they were like supposed to be scarce but then they just through like a whole horde at us ???

[warm ridge]

endless is a faction which the skimmers would likely be part of yes

skimmers aka gasgira were meant to be replacements for drones

there's even cut dialogue which have them saying stuff like "the hive" etc

[half marsh]

So the endless is like a combination of races?

[warm ridge]

it's basically covenant 3.0 without any religious factors that we know about so far

[half marsh]

Oh that makes more sense then I guess the xanalyn comes into play

[warm ridge]

or is this the 4.0 version

[half marsh]

Depends it could be either depending on how you categorize the flood I guess cuz it goes

Covenant flood covenant banished endless

[carmine sleet]

Harbinger is one of the Endless. Not sure where you heard she wasn't

[half marsh]

Cuz I was under the impression that the endless was a race not a faction but I just learned that wasn’t true

[carmine sleet]

They are a species, not a faction. Again, not sure where you heard that

[half marsh]

I heard it hear but also it makes more sense if it’s a faction if not then it makes more question like what are skimmers are all xanalyn’s endless why did they introduce skimmers like that

Cuz the endless are supposed to be precursors right?

And the harbinger isn’t a precursor

But that’s if it’s a species

[carmine sleet]

The Endless aren't the Precursors

Especially since the Precursors are a species, one we know cannot be the Endless

The Endless also don't match the descriptions we have for the Precursors

[half marsh]

Tbh we don’t really know much about the xanalyn not much lore so 🤷🏽‍♀️ but I know the forerunners feared them

And apparently they’re immune to the flood

Sounds really cool I wanna halo game fighting them

[dusk jetty]

They’re immune to Halo

Nothing is stated about the flood

[half marsh]

True I just assumed cuz they’re worse than the flood and has the same voice ability as the hive mind that literally turns people crazy

[carmine sleet]

The logic plague

And yeah, like what MIA said, there's nothing stating they're immune to the Flood. If that was the case, they likely would've been discovered far earlier than after Halo fired

[empty bloom]

They also could've just been subjected to a slip space anomaly and aren't actually immune.

It's never actually confirmed that they are immune to Halo rings, and tbh, they die to guns real easy.

[empty bloom]

I dunno. I like there being wiggle
Room

[carmine sleet]

They're on the one planet where slipspace is freaky, allowing them to survive Halo because freaky slipspace caused the opposite effect to happen on the planet

(Don't ask how Forerunners made it to the planet to imprison them, the joke doesn't need to be looked into)

[honest current]

Hello im new
i dont know if i can ask here or i need to ask in another chat
But im kinda sort of new to halo and i have a burning question i need answered

Spartans with SPI armor, can they take it off alone or do they need machinery like with Mjolnir armor?

[obsidian thistle]

Probably depends on the version of SPI/Mirage

Mirage (as seen in Halo Infinite) needs a brokkr machine

Regular SPI may benefit from it

[stoic hamlet]

I’m not sure it “needs” the machine, tbh.

But it likely helps expedite it.

A lot of it’s attached with straps and etc.

Honestly, regular SPI, with its fully overlapping plates and basically no visible bodysuit would actually probably need it more than Mirage/MJOLNIR.

[empty bloom]

Let me put it this way; MJOLNIR is like plate mail, as is SPI.

And it's a lot easier to put on plate mail with a second person. Having a machine to do it for you is even better.

Any Spartan can fully disarmor in the field with or without a machine, it's just going to take prohibitively long normally.

[unborn patrol]

would seem hazardous not to be able to shake the plates off you

easier to treat a wound that has penetrated when the armor isnt in the way

[empty bloom]

There were experimental Spartan combat medic variants made, but the armor itself is pretty good about self-healing operators. Spartan Horvath was effectively left in a ditch with a massive internal wound and healed to near-full function within a few months.

[wispy pewter]

I think they need those da Vinci machines or whatever to put it back together. So if they take of tthe Mjolnir putting it back is impossible

[warm ridge]

Endless isn't a species lol

[warm ridge]

A lot of different life forms are immune to Halo btw