lore-and-universe

[tired peak]

Said planet

Stage 4 is the EXTOSTELLAR stage where they trave from GALAXY TO GALAXY and have the the goal to infect the ENTIRE universe

Stage 5 is the theroitcals stage called the universealy stage. They are smart enough to travel to different universes...

I know I said 5 stages but what whould stage 6 be

Stage 6... Dimmisional stage. There hunger is still not satisfied. Now they travel to different Dimmions causing more chaos

I AM A PROPHET TO ALL YOUR SINS

If u whould like more detailed explanation of the stages themselves let me know. 😉

[prisma sierra]

Zombies

The flood travels to the Doom universe

[pallid knoll]

have you played the the games yet?

[mossy arrow]

Not a single one I’ve played halo 1 for 5 minutes on an emulator but that’s it

[pallid knoll]

I’d suggest you start there

[obsidian thistle]

Oh yea! I have new Spartan lore for ya lot!

So ya lot know how Spartan-073 died during augs in the Scanned trailer right.

Well

What if I told you it wasnt 073

But unlucky Spartan-013

Cause in today I learnt. That was the case.

[carmine sleet]

Guessing we all read the number wrong?

[obsidian thistle]

Yup

[mossy arrow]

I got a PlayStation not an Xbox and uh I no longer have the pc I used

[lusty venture]

Right now the master chief collection is only 9.99 on steam. That's the first 6 games. It's a steal. I just got halo for the first time this week. I have played the first game now more then halfway through and I'm loving it. It's my first fps game.

[carmine sleet]

And what a great pick for your first too

[mossy arrow]

How long is it on sale for

[lusty venture]

Not really sure. But I heard it goes on sale practially every other month. You can always just put it on your wish list and if you don't get it now you'll get the email telling you when it's on sale again.

[snow cape]

what made the covenant good to bad from halo 3 to 4

[empty bloom]

So, do you know two people with entirely opposite opinions?

Like, one person loves chocolate ice cream, but the other person would kill you for having ice cream in the first place?

[snow cape]

yeah

ooh now i get What you mean

[empty bloom]

Basically, Jul and the Covenant in 4/5, when they were betrayed by the Prophets and the Covenant fell, fought to preserve their own lives, but refused to believe their religion was a lie or that their way of life was neagtive. So they proceeded to blame and kill humanity and other elites to enforce it.

[wispy pewter]

26th century and they still think the forerunners are gods

[unique rune]

Beliefs held for millennia and engrained into society don’t just go away overnight

[empty bloom]

That's a glass house of a statement.

[prisma sierra]

Send the covenant some Mormon missionaries

[last spoke]

i don't get why people act like Halo 4 undid what Halo 3 did with the elites like if the whole species just became friends of the humans

the Fleet of Retribution was just a small fraction of all of the elites that live on the Halo universe and while they're allied with Humanity, that doesn't mean that their homeworld was prone to civil wars by other factions that still believe in the Great Journey just like what happened in the books

[prisma sierra]

Wort wort wort

I would want to see a Unggoy Sangheli war

[strange pumice]

We already had an Unggoy and kig-yar war

[carmine sleet]

Some people just don't like to admit that the Covenant species weren't a hivemind

[sharp pendant]

That would be the quickest war in history

[prisma sierra]

Yeah but Unggoy has warships now

Atleast that's what the Halopedia book said

[sharp pendant]

Yea but that's like a war between humans and ants lol
It's not going to end well

[silk marten]

A friend of mine said that UNSC fleet battleships aren't good against covenant fleet ships. I know there's truth to that, but weren't there UNSC ships that could take a beating before going down?

[wispy pewter]

the infinity can since it has shielding and thicc armor

[silk marten]

Besides the Infinity though?

[wispy pewter]

I believe the epoch class is heavily armored should withstand a couple plasma rounds before being melted

[unborn patrol]

is there any place I can find good lore dump on the fracture stuff? Id wanna know what the worlds are like where these alternative armors come from

[stoic hamlet]

The Halcyon could take more punishment than most ships… not by a lot, but they could take more than usual. It’s why the Pillar of Autumn was chosen for RED FLAG and further retrofitted.

[carmine sleet]

And it's why they named a new class of cruisers after the Autumn in the post war era

[empty bloom]

That requires actually thinking about how different people have different perspectives.

Annnnd people tend to fail to apply that as a thing to fictional settings. 'Why didn't (character) do X or Y, are they stupid?" Is a meme for a reason.

[mossy arrow]

Saturn eats his son

Can I get a run down

[empty bloom]

Miners find an ancient human or forerunner ship (Unclear, I think it was human), carve it open, and find out that there's flood inside. The ground turns into Dead Space while the ship in orbit panics, the Captain ignores his AI's advice, and sends in a Spartan Fireteam with marine reinforcements to deal with it. Spartans lose, Captain nukes the world. People who can't read super good think that the Spartan infected manage to get off world before the nukes go off, everyone on the ground dies.

Book ends with Captian drinking his fears away while he mulls over what to do.

[cold imp]

Captain keyes right?

[carmine sleet]

Nope

[empty bloom]

No? Both Keyes are long dead.

This is over a year or two after the end of the HCW.

[carmine sleet]

Keyes is long dead by the time of Saturn Devours His Son

[cold imp]

Ah ok thanks for correcting me

[empty bloom]

I still think that the infected who took that Condor at the end of the novel isn't bound to randomly slipspace jump out.

I imagine, if you want to have the setting work still because of how the flood is, it'd sneak aboard the Saturn and infect it, then someone or something detonates the reactor to stop the flood.

[cold imp]

So this story proves that there still traces of flood left right?

[empty bloom]

I mean, that was already super well known in-universe.

The Forerunners couldn't realistically wipe out every last trace of the flood.

And the Covenant were dealing with small flood flareups in Forerunner facilities for millennia, because dealing with that was straight up one of the jobs of the Zealot orders.

[cold imp]

Yeah makes sense thanks for the info

[mossy arrow]

Only reason I learned about it is from a random instagram reel mentioning the flood infected spartan flying Ina ship with like a space drive to whatever

[spark pivot]

Its confirmed in the halo spartan field manual that there is still plenty of flood hidden away, lurking, waiting for unsuspecting beings to open a can of the end times

[cold imp]

yeah i know now thanks

[empty bloom]

An Instagram account jumped for an incorrect understanding of what happened? What a shocker that is.

[mossy arrow]

It peaked my interest didn’t know like I said I have never touched the games let alone the lore

[empty bloom]

Just commenting my ever-present hatred of Instagram.

[mossy arrow]

But I can say the funny word in the comments of a terminally ill physically deformed child

Theoretically

[spark pivot]

Trench dislikes social media and halo reach, thats all you need to know about them

[empty bloom]

Excuse me, there is plenty of other cool things you could know about me.

[mossy arrow]

Theoretically speaking

[spark pivot]

Do any of them become relevant anytime soon?

[empty bloom]

Only if they come up in conversation, like my love of Deep Space 9 or my insistence that the best way to play Armored Core 6 is with ultralight builds.

[mossy arrow]

Ibheard reach was good

[empty bloom]

Don't believe the hype.

[spark pivot]

It is

To be fair

It all just boils down to personal preference

[empty bloom]

I do wish MCC still had population for Reach Invasion and 4 Dominion.

... Come to think of it, it's frustrating that Infinite has all the tools to add Dominion, it just isn't there.

[spark pivot]

Check customs browser

If not there, learn how to make it

[empty bloom]

I meant as a full mode.

Right now it'd basically be territory control with fixed hills.

I'm gonna go to general chat for this though.

[mossy arrow]

Anyways imma wait till the next sale and buy halo collection on steam

[viral delta]

Hey guys, I'm just wondering if anyone on here knows what pelican variants were seen in both halo CE and halo 2?

[unique rune]

https://www.halopedia.org/D77-TC_Pelican

[mossy arrow]

What is the grave mind

Ain’t it like a flood that controls other floods

[prisma sierra]

I wonder if Lycaon joined Cortana

Man a flood Spartan. Not sure if I like that idea

[empty bloom]

Well, there's at least 4 who were around at one point.

Luckily for the Spartan, their brains are destroyed the very moment they get infected, so at least they die for real instead of whatever the flood had in mind for them.

[prisma sierra]

Oh yeah the Mjolnir booms their helmet. That is very sad. But necessary

[mossy arrow]

Ain’t in the Saturn eats his son it fails or something

I listened to the audio book

I’m very halo now

[prisma sierra]

Apparently it exploded his face but he still kept going

[mossy arrow]

Yeah

Scary

[empty bloom]

The armor successfully killed the user. The redundant failsafes meant to immobilize and restrict the puppeted corpse failed.

[mossy arrow]

Oh so he doesn’t have to suffer the control of the flood

[empty bloom]

Basically the point of Gallows, yeah. It denies intel and the Spartan doesn't suffer.

Flood-fighting Spartans have a lot of trust in their system considering there's enough explosives in their helmet to blow up their skull and the contents within.

[tribal trench]

intel denial against an enemy who harvests information straight from someone's brain is something I never really considered

[tribal trench]

Flood Super-Intelligence

[empty bloom]

I mean, it makes a ton of sense.

What's the best way to prevent intel? Well, they can't violate the laws of physics at the stage the Spartan's gonna be fighting them at, so let's just make em a meat puppet when they get infected.

[tribal trench]

couldn't Mjolnir's asset denial systems (portable mini-nuke from the reactor) also do the job?

[empty bloom]

The armor was trying to do that, actually.

Apparently the SOP for counter-flood intrusion is as follows;

• Destroy the operator's skull
• Lock all musculature, preventing movement
• Detonate the reactor, rendering the Spartan inside unuseable

[tribal trench]

oh cool so its like a redundancy

[empty bloom]

Course, one would think that you'd have simultaneous charges in the reactor and the head.

Because even if the reactor isn't gonna go off if you do that, you're still leaving the Flood with an unpowered MJOLNIR suit with a headless body in it, which relatively speaking is practically worthless.

[mossy arrow]

There’s a frickin nuclear reactor in a suit?

Wouldn’t that be hazardous for the user

[empty bloom]

Fusion, which is cleaner and generally functions off of different principles.

[mossy arrow]

Oh

[empty bloom]

Nuclear in general is a relatively safe power source.

[mossy arrow]

I know the basics of a fusion reactor I thought it was a fission reactor

Still though being right next to a nuclear power reactor without any protection right next to the reactor doesn’t sound very safe

Fusion is different however

Thanks for the differentiating

[tribal trench]

Who said there was a lack of protection?

[mossy arrow]

Again I mentioned multiple times new to the series you could say in terms of lore

Don’t know fully what goes into spartan armor

And I would presume there is very thin protection for a nuclear reactor in a suit that was meant to be light for the user

[azure mason]

Were the Spartan 3's only abducted children, or could an ODST become one as well?

[empty bloom]

ODSTs are not child soldiers.

The only Spartans who could've been ODSTs would be IVs.

Spartans who were ODSTs;

[tribal trench]

Sometimes I forget Palmer was an ODST

[azure mason]

Ah, okay, thank you.

Can Spartan IV's wear the MK V (B)?

[tribal trench]

In short yes, SIIIs were only abducted children

like the IIs

[azure mason]

Thanks, haha.

[mossy arrow]

Is the third guy Taylor from bo3 bro

Train go boom

[empty bloom]

Yes, all Spartans can wear all MJOLNIR.

Allegedly IVs can't benefit from Mark IV and Mark Vb as much as IIs and IIIs, but that's really old lore that kinda doesn't make any sense.

So I chalk it up to being poorly explained and thus invalid for consideration.

[azure mason]

Got it.

[primal slate]

wellllllllllllllllllll

[tribal trench]

well?

[primal slate]

from my understanding spartan IIIs were all just orphans

[tribal trench]

Still abducted

Kidnapped, if you will

[azure mason]

Asking all of this because if I were to have a self-insert, he'd transition from an ODST to a Spartan, and I wanted it to be lore-accurate. It's a hassle finding all of it from Google.

[tribal trench]

He'd be a Spartan IV and it would have happened post-2552

[azure mason]

Got it, that makes sense.

Really want him to rock the Reach armor, haha, although I like to say every game's armor is good.

[primal slate]

they were really just taken advantage of since they were blinded by their anger and want for revenge against the covies

[empty bloom]

Children can't sign their lives away and the IIIs were effectively signators under duress anyways (Ripped away from family and thus vulnerable to UNSC coercion).

[primal slate]

^^^ 100%

[empty bloom]

It doesn't matter what they said they wanted to do, kids are kids.

[tribal trench]

Exactly

good way to explain it

[primal slate]

so exploited war orphans used for combat on suicide missions

[azure mason]

The III's were expendable.

[primal slate]

^^^

cheap to make

didnt have halseys preferred genetic markers

[unique rune]

They all did

S-III still went through genetic screening
Just not as stringent because they didn’t need to be

[empty bloom]

Even IVs actually have a lot of genetic marker requirements, far from the 'everything goes' people think of them.

[primal slate]

they were not selected for S2s for the reason that halsey was VERY picky

[unique rune]

I mean also because they had limited funding and didn’t want to kill 90% of their candidates

[primal slate]

they had markers for augmentation they just would never reach S2 capabilities

[empty bloom]

Well... That, and they'd all have been, at most, a twinkle in their father's eyes by the kidnapping stage of the Spartan II program.

[azure mason]

Does the MK V B armor put a IV wearing it at any disadvantage?

[primal slate]

trueeee

good way to put it

[empty bloom]

Nothing specific or known, but I'd say the fact they're wearing inferior armor at all is the disadvantage.

[azure mason]

Inferior how?

[primal slate]

older armor

[azure mason]

Ah.

All I know is that the V B can't house an AI.

[mossy arrow]

Child labor

Isn’t that basically what 3s are

[primal slate]

so my curiousity is do S2s wear a custom version of the new Mjolnir designed to enhance their augmentations moreso than IVs can handle?

because IVs in no way can ever match up to a lore accurate II

[empty bloom]

According to... Who?

[primal slate]

a regular human would die if they wore S2 designed mjolnir

[empty bloom]

Bad storytellers?

[empty bloom]

IVs are heavily augmented, so... Kind of irrelevant.

[primal slate]

the written lore for how strong S2s are vs SIVs

[empty bloom]

That you haven't read, if you think they're just unaugmented humans.

[mossy arrow]

Halo fall of reach

[empty bloom]

Doesn't have the subject (IVs) in it.

[primal slate]

I never said they were unaugmented

just saying a regular human would die from the tiniest twitch

[azure mason]

IV's are augmented, just less than the II's were.

[mossy arrow]

Talked about normal people not being able to wear the armor or something I think

[primal slate]

IVs augs are probably no better than IIIs augs

[empty bloom]

What's funny is, by actual description? Theirs should be way better.

[azure mason]

That's for any MJOLNIR armor set.

[primal slate]

hence why IIIs wore SPI

[empty bloom]

Wrong.

[primal slate]

and not regular Mjolnir

[empty bloom]

IIIs wear regular MJOLNIR.

[primal slate]

they wear spi

[empty bloom]

They wore SPI because it was cheaper, not because they couldn't wear MJOLNIR.

[azure mason]

SPI was worn by II's and III's to my knowledge, but don't quote me on it.

[empty bloom]

Noble Team consisted of 5 Spartan IIIs and a single Spartan II; Gamma Spartans were outfitted with GEN1 and GEN2 MJOLNIR at various points.

[primal slate]

I thought spi was moreso of a IIIs thing

[empty bloom]

It's an everyone thing.

[primal slate]

ive never seen a II do spi \

[azure mason]

SPI is MJOLNIR but cheaper, lol.

[primal slate]

except

Kurt

[empty bloom]

Because they don't want to wear them, because it's not really something they need to do for any missions we've seen them go on.

If they needed to I don't doubt that they would.

[primal slate]

because theres better armor

[empty bloom]

No.

[primal slate]

yes

[empty bloom]

It's not a matter of 'better' armor.

It's a matter of different roles.

[primal slate]

Mjolnir is way better than spi

spi is semi powered infiltration armor

its design is cheaper and way less effective

[empty bloom]

At glowing like a flashbang on thermals, at having a much bigger footprint, at being much heavier, at being far less stealthy.

[primal slate]

untrue

[empty bloom]

It is literally true.

[primal slate]

just ignoring all the infiltration SIIs have gone on with Mjolnir then I guess

[unique rune]

More like all the times they haven’t lmao

[empty bloom]

Infiltrating is different than spending the entire operation stealthed.

[primal slate]

spartan gray team????????

[empty bloom]

Who actively got involved in a crap ton of fighting in their book?

Like, a tank can be 'stealthy', that doesn't mean it's doing the same job as an MRAP, lmao

[unique rune]

The difference is literally in the names

[primal slate]

who prolly wouldve died if wearing spi on their missions

[empty bloom]

Emp, can you handle this and ping me if you need me to? I'm trying to play Overwatch with friends right now.

[unique rune]

One is flat out called “semi-powered infiltration” armor
The other is “powered assault armor”

[primal slate]

Linda who wears Mjolnir as a sniper

[unique rune]

Because she’s expected to operate with other Spartan-IIs wearing MJOLNIR armor

[azure mason]

Okay, so, I'm heading out this chat for now, so what I took away (from the questions I asked) is that if an ODST were to enroll as a spartan after the human-covenant war (2553), they would be a Spartan-IV, and that if said Spartan would wear MK 5 B, they would not be at a significant disadvantage?

[unique rune]

Not to any meaningful degree, correct

[primal slate]

itd just be inferior armor but nothing outrageous

[unique rune]

Mk. V[B] has had models upgraded to contemporary MJOLNIR standards so it’d largely be just a cosmetic thing, if anything

[primal slate]

youd just lose out on AI but spartans were meant to be paired iirc with an ai

[azure mason]

Sorry for disturbing, Trench. 😅

[primal slate]

to enhance combat effectiveness

[primal slate]

no need to apologize

youre fine bud

[azure mason]

Perfect.

[unique rune]

Unless you explicitly state that they’re wearing unmodified GEN1 Mk. V[B] (which would be kinda weird timeline-wise), they should be just fine

[primal slate]

^^^

[azure mason]

No, it would be lore-accurate.

[primal slate]

they found the helmet from a dying spartan and wore it as a rememberence

lol

[azure mason]

No, I mean the whole armor set.

[empty bloom]

You're fine, not the issue

[primal slate]

I wouldnt say its an issueee

its convo

im not upset

just a convo between NERDS

[primal slate]

so unmodified GEN1 Mk.V(B) is what you want a IV to wear?

[azure mason]

Well what do you mean by modified?

[primal slate]

updated to current gen standards

[azure mason]

Oh, yes, it would be.

It would look the same, yes?

[unique rune]

When I said unmodified GEN1 Mk. V[B] I meant like, original Human-Covenant War stock Mk. V[B], which would be slightly out of date

updated GEN2- and GEN3-compatible suits would be more canon-friendly

outwardly they wouldn’t look much different from an original GEN1 suit

[last anchor]

Some slight redundency and security against Created infiltration but thats probably it.

[primal slate]

gotta love smart AI

[last anchor]

Also, to update to GEN 3 recquires nothing more than a software patch.

Literaly take the helmet, plug it into a computer like its an iPhone, download the new drivers, and boom.

[empty bloom]

I feel the plates should logically be inferior.

[primal slate]

Halo recreated the geth goddamnit

[last anchor]

The plates would, yeah, but the shielding would handle most of that, right?

Titanium-A is still Titanium-A

[azure mason]

What would look different?

[unique rune]

Mostly the body suit underneath the armor plating

[last anchor]

Thats modular anyway isnt it

The arming points are the same across all 3 generations

[unique rune]

The exact proportions might also differ slightly if you want to get into really nitpicky details based on how the original Reach armor models and their Infinite counterparts differ a little

But I’d just chalk that up to an artistic thing and not actually canonically meaningful differences

[azure mason]

So, basically, no visual difference, yes?

[unique rune]

Pretty much

[azure mason]

Awesome.

[wispy pewter]

but it's a way cheaper augmentation tho? Buck doubted he would survive the same fall as Chief from orbit

Spartan IIs are stronger in terms of strength. However Chief said the IVs made up for it with resourcefulness or whatever

[empty bloom]

Cheaper does not equal worse. I don't know what faulty schooling taught people that that's the case, but it literally never has been a factor in product quality.

[empty bloom]

Chief can say what he likes, but it's still a mostly confusing and baseless statement. Ditto with Buck, considering Chief's survival of orbital falls is currently 1 for 1 and it was on a planet that wanted him to land on it.

(He didn't fall to ground in 2, and in 3 he would've fallen from within atmosphere)

[wispy pewter]

well I took it from Shadows of Reach and Bad Blood. Both did mention that the Spartan II program is still somehwat superior in terms of augmentation

but in Gen 3 Mjolnir I doubt the difference matters that much unless their base strentgh is maximised

[unique rune]

S-IV augmentations are cheaper due to scientific advances and refinements

Think of it like how the IBM 610 in 1957 cost $55k and took up an entire room
meanwhile the average smartphone today costs about $800, can fit in your pocket, and has multiple times the computing power

[wispy pewter]

but it isn't just cheaper though. It's also less extensive.

[unique rune]

S-IV augmentation is more extensive, if anything

[wispy pewter]

then why did Buck said that the II are superior. something Halsey put inside

[unique rune]

Because he’s talking out of his rear end from a biased viewpoint

S-IVs have almost all of theirinternal organs are replaced with synthetic alternatives that provide numerous performance improvements

The only area that’s arguably inferior is that the strength enhancements apparently aren’t as strong as previous generations

[wispy pewter]

yeah maybe it's just strength. that is probably also a survivability factor

[unique rune]

One that’s minimized by MJOLNIR armor

S-IV augmentations make for a much more well-rounded supersoldier than its predecessors due to things like their metabolic and respiratory enhancements

[empty bloom]

I still think their skeleton and joints are likely stronger.

Even if the muscles aren't.

[obsidian thistle]

I may be onto something fun! 😄

I'll be making a dictionary based on what I think may be correct. But jeez we may be able to speak a lil Jiralhanae soon.

(And write it)

(More names and nouns than anything substantial... but hey)

[prisma sierra]

Ooga booga hoo hoo haa haa

[obsidian thistle]

Its far more interesting than that aha.

I'll show an example of the written version of a word! If anyone can guess what I wrote, you get a cookie and a high five. 🙂 (I just hope I am onto something, and ain't just getting lucky)

[prisma sierra]

I love Atriox

[obsidian thistle]

"names and nouns"

[latent junco]

Banished?

[obsidian thistle]

Nope

(Though I should probably make that word)

[latent junco]

that's be a good one lol
its sumn with 8 letters tho, I think

[obsidian thistle]

Its phonetic

At least for nouns and names.

While not in the example above.

To make the X sound/letter.

You need two characters for example.

[latent junco]

Skewers is the only other word my brain can think of rn lol, but ik that's not right

[obsidian thistle]

Escharum is a fun one (and the only real public one we had on record prior to today) https://www.halopedia.org/images/a/a1/HINF_Banished_Text_Escharum.png

Escharum = Eh sh ar uh n = Ehsharuhn

(Now you know how to say Escharum in Jiralhanae by the way! You are welcome)

(Interesting that M wasn't used at the end, but does show my own translations are more to be viewed as "close" and 343i can choose to go a different route.)

[latent junco]

Plus the Banished I'd assume have a slightly different spelling of words too, similar to how in English we say things a certain way, but in similar languages and whatnot, its said a bit differently

so they may actually use an N instead of an M in Echarum's name

Even just me doing a kinda horrible Jiralhanae accent, it sounds more like an N then an M

its almost a mix of both sounds

[obsidian thistle]

This is why I am not going to translate words like and, who, is, what, and so on. xD

They 100% wont be English.

Nouns/Names are legitimately the only things I'm attempting as we have em.

A lil more into my research.

[unique rune]

Oh wow so it’s more like a proper different written language and not just an English cipher

[obsidian thistle]

Yup

Its nothing like the old ciphers.

Again note everything I translate, view with a lil salt. View them as potientials for how the nouns and names are spelt.

[mossy arrow]

What are precursors anyways

[unborn patrol]

look em up on halopedia

[mossy arrow]

internet is being slow as balls

just need a rundown

[carmine sleet]

Ancient aliens that had capabilities beyond what even the Forerunners could do

[mossy arrow]

and what could the forerunners do again

im like brand new to the lore

only things i know is basics

like basic basics

[unborn patrol]

my god just read about it

[obsidian thistle]

I recommend getting Halo Mythos, the Encyclopedia, or doing a lotta reading! 🙂

[unborn patrol]

or play the games

[obsidian thistle]

Mythos is my main recommendation as it covers most stuff before Halo Wars 2 released

The Encyclopedia may go through yer head as someone new to the lore.

I dont recommend the Forerunner Saga until you read a few books first also

Has a 70% chance to push ya away despite them being fantastic

[upper coyote]

Main article: Unidentified alien vessel
Around 40,000 BCE[4] (50,000 years following the firing of the array), an Unidentified alien vessel crashed on the ring during an experiment 343 Guilty Spark conducted on the Halo.[5][6] None of the ship's occupants attempted to leave the vessel's crash site or attempt contact, leading Guilty Spark to build a sarcophagus around the vessel. Ultimately, the Monitor was hopeful for the next species to arrive on the ring.[4]``` https://www.halopedia.org/List_of_unidentified_species#cite_note-HCEAT4-5


I don't remember an experiment being mentioned in the Halo terminals?

[carmine sleet]

That's definitely something we see in the terminals, one of them is mainly focused on the ship

[wispy pewter]

aliens!

[upper coyote]

I mean mention of the experiment that caused the ship to crash

[obsidian thistle]

Oh I see

Ok so the terminal prior has Spark experiment with the ring

Then pops up the ship in the sensor during it

Boom next terminal has the focus on the ship

[empty bloom]

I wonder if the sarcophagus was still intact by the destruction of AH.

[carmine sleet]

I would assume it was still there

Wouldn't surprise me if the Covenant tried opening it at some point

[warm ridge]

I'm surprised more lore hasn't been centered around by what ship it even was

Or how it even got there

It's literally just mentioned and completely forgotten about, 14 years later absolutely nothing on it to this day lol

[carmine sleet]

To be fair, there's not much to say about it. It's just a mysterious ship whose inhabitants died before they got the chance to explore Halo

And honestly, a little mystery isn't hurting anyone

[obsidian thistle]

I just love how a booklet from 2004 explained an inconsistency regarding that ship the Terminals themselves created lol

[high elbow]

Disagree. The mystery is causing me physical harm. My leg has fallen off and my bones are melting

[obsidian thistle]

Terminal 6 - Spark: Cant wait to see who visits next.

Terminal 1 - Spark: Do not come near or I'll shoot.

Its funny. But if we consider Conversations from the Universe

Other species visited the ring

Who knows maybe more of the same species who crashed

And Spark evidently wasnt happy

And well I admit

I'm more curious about the ones who visited then just casually left

[high elbow]

They could’ve left out of terror. The halo rings are horrifying mega structure, the sheer size is wild. That’s not even considering the visitors probably didn’t know the purpose behind the Halo array

[warm ridge]

The point of mysteries is eventually they all get solved, you can't have a mystery go unsolved forever otherwise it loses relevancy and becomes entirely pointless.

and forgotten

Something that gets solved and has a proper ending to it will almost never be forgotten vs something that stays a mystery forever with no answers.

[obsidian thistle]

I dont think the ship was intended to be something that 343i was intending to be a mystery

More a thing used to push Sparks narrative forward

[warm ridge]

To be fair when he was saying "do not come near or I will shoot" he was likely referring the over-all battle he could tell was happening. Fighting, guns ablaze, chaos, of course Spark wouldn't want anything like that to happen on the ring.

If it was just a random ship with peaceful intentions he basically wouldn't care

Remember, the Covenant ships arrived 1st before the Pillar of Autumn did, and he didn't see anything bad about them being there so

[warm ridge]

We have documented evidence that a random species visited at least 2 different Halo rings, explored them, then casually left with no communications or attempts to contact the Monitors at all.

Installation 04 & 05 both show signs of this

It's possible all Halo rings do

But who exactly visited them, why, what they were doing & where they went afterwards is entirely unknown

[obsidian thistle]

This actually has to happen after Spark saw the PoA.

Otherwise nothing would get near the ring lol

But Spark sounds really miffed that the Covenant are doing stuff

Based on previous experience

[carmine sleet]

There's mysteries in our world we still don't have answers to and plenty of other games leave some things just unexplained. So the idea that Halo has to have no mystery just seems odd. What's the point of explaining everything? You lose the sense of wonder if you do that

[unique rune]

I feel like the other thing is like
does it even really matter?

If they give the race that created it a name, then... so what? It's not gonna drastically change anything about the Halo universe unless they do something stupid like "oh but it was actually a group of Endless!"

[empty bloom]

Halo fans be like 'Man I love mystery and no details, Forerunners were better when they were a mystery'

Then the second something unexplained shows up they flip out because they need to know what it is NOW.

[warm ridge]

And those mysteries will all eventually get solved because we have the capability to do it. New tech answers old mysteries.

Plenty of games don't leave random plot points unexplained, that almost never happens. If it does, it was likely done unintentionally or by mistake at best.

Where did I say Halo can't have no mystery?

[warm ridge]

You haven't changed anything about what my original point said so I'm basically just repeating this entire thing again.

[amber solstice]

Although I actually have been reading this back & forth because it's very interesting. @empty bloom @spark pivot @summer cove

[spark pivot]

Gungnir has pros and cons,
Pros:
Using spartan laser without going blind
Visr being shot is not a problem
Cons:
Very easy to blind

[amber solstice]

I was today years old in realizing that, yeah, firing a Spartan laser would totally blind you normally.

[empty bloom]

MJOLNIR's already got insane ability to prevent users from going blind. It's
More likely that it's heavily armored due to the relative amount of exposure one needs to properly have a Spartan Laser hit its target and to coordinate the firing solution.

MJOLNIR is capable of real time image sanitation.

As in, it automatically censors gore and discombobulating imagery in real time, as it happens. They have the tech for polarizing against blindness.

[amber solstice]

So would that diminish the sheer brightness significantly enough and fast enough?

[empty bloom]

If it is real time? Absolutely.

[amber solstice]

So I was blinding my Spartans every time I fired one off, RIP.

[empty bloom]

Well, no, your Spartan was being saved from blindness each time.

[amber solstice]

Oh you mean ALL mjolnir can do that

not just Gungnir?

[summer cove]

Are we also saying your armor keeps your external sensory equipment clean for you?

[empty bloom]

I mean, if you can't rub mud off an armored sensor housing, you also can't rub mud off your visor.

[summer cove]

Does it have a little built in windshield wiper

[empty bloom]

Basically. It's not described as a notable trait for GUNGNIR, it's described as being such for one of Halo 5's visors; Where its lack of image sanitation options was what made it noteworthy.

[summer cove]

Sensory equipment for vision has to be clean all the time since it relies on light. Idk Spartans are usually in the thick of it during battle, that it would seem like a disadvantage to not have a visor

[empty bloom]

Why is a visor apparently immune to being fouled up?

Are visors ultra shielded against slime or mud?

[summer cove]

Didn’t say that. The point is that the visor becoming dirty doesn’t impact your vision nearly as much as it would external sensory equipment

[empty bloom]

I mean, we already know you can mount armor plating directly over visual overlays with no actual negative impact to the Spartan wearing the armor.

Thank you, Hazmat armor lore.

[summer cove]

How does the light get in? I’m confused how that would work

Does it use echo location lmao

[empty bloom]

Visual spectrum isn't the only way. Magnetic, thermal, forerunner magic, etc etc.

It's actually a well known thing for MJOLNIR, non-visible light sensory.

[summer cove]

Do you have a halopedia link?

[empty bloom]

Literally just any armor that has no visible visor.

As well as any visor canon that talks about nonvisual perspective filtering.

IE Magnetics.

[summer cove]

Meaning traversing via the ability to see magnetic fields?

[empty bloom]

Among other forms of visual feedback. It's more about logical conclusions following off of what is known as a capability.

IE, the Spartan functions, the UNSC has this tech in a non experimental setting, and it is acknowledged that Spartans with nonvisored helmets or covered visors suffer no combat impairment.

[summer cove]

Eh, I was somewhat approaching this from an irl perspective, given that we do have sensors for vision, you’re losing me with the rest

[empty bloom]

So while the tech used is an unknown quality, the fact that a tech that exists allows for it is known.

[amber solstice]

Maybe more like submarines: where they rely on the sensors and not a cockpit window.

[empty bloom]

The forced perspective from an IRL standpoint is why you're being lost. You need to fill the gaps with the information you know then do the legwork from there.

[amber solstice]

Very rudimentary in comparison, but an analogy for how one would navigate and move without standard "eyesight"

[mossy arrow]

Yall remember the halo megablocks

[empty bloom]

1. The Spartan's visor is obscured or does not exist.
2. The Spartan is experiencing no negative effects from this.
3. we know the UNSC has plenty of technology that would get around this problem.
4. The technology specifically used is unknown.
5. Due to points 1 and 2, we know the Spartan is unimpeded. From point 3, we have the technology. A conclusion follows from point 3's existence; therefore, it can be assumed to that point 3 is used in some fashion to get around point 4.

[summer cove]

They have sonar and thermals in conjunction with some physical vision (cameras/windows). The Spartans without visors would be relying on some form of vision that doesn’t exist irl so it’s hard to qualify how that would work without just accepting that it does to “it’s works because 343 says it does”

[empty bloom]

The last sentence is literally 99.9% of science fiction.

If it wasn't we'd have power armor and plasma rifles IRL.

[summer cove]

I know, which is why I originally said I was approaching this from a semi irl perspective

[amber solstice]

That does make sense that Spartans would indeed be viewing a displayed mix of multiple sensors, like how A/V does today.

[stoic hamlet]

Not just science fiction. Fiction in general

[summer cove]

Because otherwise you’re just right that it makes absolute sense

[summer cove]

Yep pretty much. And that brings me back full circle to what I was saying originally, which is that it’s more practical to have a visor in the event your sensors malfunction/are damaged

[empty bloom]

Situationally it's a maybe.

I'd say it's more convenient than it is practical.

[summer cove]

I’d use either word

[empty bloom]

They aren't interchangeable is the thing.

[summer cove]

I could justify using either

[empty bloom]

In most situations, it won't matter-the visor is armored, and the armored faceplate is armored. Both sensory systems are suffeciently rated to work under combat stress, both are easily kept clean.

The times where it does matter are going to not be under standard OP, as MJOLNIR tech is known for being absurdly reliable (6 months of usage may've been hard on Rubicon's survivors, but they weren't wearing entirely useless armor) and Spartans are typically not deployed to the field for months at a time.

They're typically deployed to the theater, but rapidly moved to handle specific problems while regulars do as regulars do.

[summer cove]

Yeah I’d rock a visor all the time

[amber solstice]

Yeah I could definitely see that (har har), and it'd be hard to know whether in a predicted situation that the ability to quickly see with your eyeballs when sensors fail would be a good tradeoff vs the vulnerability of a less sturdy area of your armor. But I guess that's why they have a ton of different armors for different scenarios.

[empty bloom]

Pretty much.

[amber solstice]

e.g. Aviator: giant visor area, but intended for a scenario where the wearer is enveloped in an aircraft that is shielded or at least gives some protection (I ignorantly believe?)

[empty bloom]

Correct.

[summer cove]

The eyeless helmets are just an example I gave. I also think some of the armors/pieces are very oddly shaped and would be a nightmare to move it

You’d stick out of cover and whatnot

[amber solstice]

That's tough for me to reconcile then with certain famed Spartans having Their Signature Look, which includes a [what we realize now to be] hyper situationally optimal helmet.

[empty bloom]

Conversely, GUNGNIR is being used by a Spartan who is likely going to be exposed a lot more and using a far more high-profile weapon.

Wetwork is being used by a solo operating Spartan with a single-target focus.

Locus is designed with heavy armor and solo operation in mind.

Actually, Locus is a great example of a visorless helmet's design philosophy.

[amber solstice]

lol yeah I always thought that about FOTUS.

Locus is the one I was picturing in my head, yes.

[empty bloom]

Multiple redundant sensory systems, and designed with the notion of survivability and armor plating above all else.

[amber solstice]

Yokai also

[empty bloom]

Eh, Yokai's noncanon so I wasn't considering it.

[summer cove]

Most of it just boils down to “it looks cool” and I can get that

[amber solstice]

like a firefighter and a SWAT operative choose to "gamble" on needing to be saved by their armor from different threats.

[summer cove]

Some of the yoroi helmets are pretty crazy. Like you’re adding a good 5-10 inches to your dome

[amber solstice]

When SWAT enters a building, sure there's always a possibility it could get set on fire, but they're choosing to prioritize defense against likelier threats.

[amber solstice]

like that one that looks like a tower on your head lol

I love the Halo ring around it.

[empty bloom]

You prep for the job and what you expect to encounter, but you also prep for how you plan to approach the problem.

I could wear a big visored STRIBOG if I'm killing a specific guy; The added sensors would help immensely. Oooor I could wear Locus, which has good enough sensors, but also has enough armor plating that I can afford to 'go loud' and tank the fire from his security entourage.

You bring a gas mask if you expect to get hit with gas attacks, but you also would bring a gas mask if you intend to be the one doing the gas attacking.

[amber solstice]

That makes a lot of sense, which is why it's hard now for me to understand how all the named Spartans we see use the same helmet for everything no matter what. Like Buck's upcycled ODST helmet and its big happy visor area.

[high elbow]

That’s probably more of a marketing thing just to make sure specific characters stay easily identifiable. Like when you think of Big Green it’s always his helmet.

[empty bloom]

I mean, you could see it as an extension of the answer. MJOLNIR has a lot of effectiveness shared between suits, so the 'iconic' looks they have is likely tied to how they prefer to engage in the field.

Linda isn't normally going to be the one splitting heads with a knife, but her armor can if it needed to-it reflects what she specializes in, in the sense that 4 guys in the same Fireteam IRL all wear the same armor, but one guy's gonna have different pouches than the others because he has a different gun with different requirements.

[amber solstice]

Yeah I should've thought of that: not everyone would kit out like a quarterback or receiver would: they would each kit out in what their expected roles would be, and they'd be honing those roles within the same squad they're used to doing everything together with.

[empty bloom]

For example; All of these characters use the same uniform (Ignore the greatcoats) for their side, but their supplemental equipment (Pouches, chest rigging, specialized armor and helmets for their roles) reflect what they specialize in on the field, with minimal variance.

[amber solstice]

BF1 was such an incredible time.

When that reveal trailer came out I was losing my mind

[empty bloom]

Mhmn.

But yeah, you'd likely see the heavily up-armored and 'visorless' helmets on Spartans who are consistently expecting to be the ones getting shot the most. The visor's redundancy isn't as valuable as surviving the first shot to the head.

Same reason hyperslim visors are used.

Additional observations on armor effectiveness are interesting;

Stinger is the lightest version of GEN2, and has a relatively narrow visor profile.

It also is still likely more durable than the aircraft (The Wasp) it's meant to pilot.

[amber solstice]

oh that's interesting, the armor made for Wasp pilots is Stinger. All this stuff seems like it's right there in front of my eyes and I haven't seen it.

[empty bloom]

This means from design observation;

• It is still relatively heavily armored, but the Wasp isn't because it's for recon.
• The armor itself is incredibly light, which is useful because, well, Wasps likely don't have a ton of lift.
• The visor is relatively small because of the aforementioned armor issue (You'll be fine if the cockpit is shredded, but you still don't want your visor penned)
• It still provides adequate full body protection due to the aformentioned Wasp's frailty.

[prisma sierra]

Those Spartans on Zeta Halo have been wearing their armor for months. Man they must stink

[carmine sleet]

If you think technology alone is what solves a mystery, I am worried for the future of mystery solving. And not all mysteries in games are to do with main plots, some are just mysterious things that exist within a game. And you keep talking about how you want one of the most obscure things in the series to have a proper explanation when it doesn't require any

[wispy pewter]

let's just say those aliens were actually Squidwardians since the ship looks like a squid

[carmine sleet]

The design of the ship has some resemblance to the Reapers from Mass Effect. It wouldn't surprise me if it was a nod to them given both franchises feature a galactic genocide millennia ago as a major event

With Halo having the Halos being fired and Mass Effect having the multiple harvests done by the Reapers

Though this shouldn't be taken as me saying that the Reapers are canon to Halo. Too much of the lore between the franchises don't fit together at all

[warm ridge]

I didn't say technology alone solves old mysteries, new tech helps a lot with figuring out old mysteries and questions.
This applies to both real life & even in games where more powerful hardware becomes available to do things the devs wanted to do before but couldn't due to hardware limitations.

Forerunners in Halo are still mysterious despite all the info we know about them.

[prisma sierra]

At this point ancient hoomans are more mysterious

[snow cape]

What Was the Arbiter Doing during Halo 1

[carmine sleet]

He was the commander of the Covenant fleet in CE

[empty bloom]

... Halo 2 literally explains this lmao

[carmine sleet]

The difference between the Forerunners and the crashed unidentified vessel is that we were going to learn more about the Forerunners, regardless of the direction it took, the franchise would've had to have delved into it due to how important Forerunners and their creations are to the universe. That ship's an interesting little mystery sure, but it's not one with any importance to the wider universe. It's simply a mysterious ship and that's what makes it ok to leave it that way

[prisma sierra]

Inb4 it's some hyper advanced civilization that is the main villain once Halo finishes the Banished/Created storyline

Okay it seems that the vessel crashed 40000 years ago lol

[obsidian thistle]

Halo: The Flood's 2010 onwards edition also explains stuff.

So does a Data Drop from Lootcrate.

The Halo 2 Limited Edition manual also covers stuff as its a report directly from Thel.

Thels CE journey has a few pieces already pretty much

[wispy pewter]

wow humanity once had an empire spanning 30 thousand lightyears

[unborn patrol]

I'd also imagine its useful for those that are in constant contact with explosives and on occasion fast traveling shrapnel

does the armor piece of gungnir come off sort of on command? because I imagine that helmet is pretty good if it can in an emergency get rid of the armor up front

which is not something every visorless helmet has

[empty bloom]

More "I can remove this if I need to"

Though that's not really that hard to conceive of for most visorless helmets. I think Project Corsac might be the only one where it legitimately looks impossible to take it apart piece by piece.

[unborn patrol]

yeah thats what I meant

[stoic hamlet]

Well, Gungnir was used mainly by snipers, so it’s likely the plate is incredibly armoured but can be removed immediately (or almost) upon getting shot.

[unborn patrol]

is it? never heard of that

its my most used helmet and funny enough its developed in Kotka

which is a city in my home country of finland

[unborn patrol]

theres only one case I can see of this, Nina Kovan. and she didnt use the plating

but I imagine the TAS is useful for sniping. but its said to have been developed for the spartan laser. I imagine its good with tracking rockets too

[wispy pewter]

Gungnir looking like a robot

hellcat armor also has no visor or anything since it's based on ancestor tech

[prisma sierra]

I thought the Visor was just for decoration anyway.

[latent junco]

GUNGNIRs main purpose was to shield the user from the light of a Spartan laser, since the brightness of one firing (in lore anyway) is enough to blind anyone looking at it, which you can't really avoid if you're the user (afaik anyway, that's what I've heard from every account of GUNGNIR armor I've seen)
the TAS/Netmoon is for sniping, which in game is only on Mark VII helmets, but earlier versions, and even the Infinite version, could easily go on tons of different helmets in lore

GUNGNIR can be used by snipers, but Helmets like Scout, or helmets that would be compatible with the Netmoon are more preferred
Although I wouldn't be surprised if the GUNGNIR shoulder pauldrons are used by snipers, since ik Marines also use them, and they're supposedly quite light

[stoic hamlet]

It’s from a Halo Reach helmet description.

The HUL/RS module attachment description notes it’s “a favourite of sniper units”.

[latent junco]

is that on any other helmets?

the attachment I mean

[unborn patrol]

oh but thats just for the module attachment

[stoic hamlet]

Not necessarily

[unborn patrol]

yes

[latent junco]

yea
If its an attachment that can be for multiple helmets, that doesn't automatically make GUNGNIR a sniper helmet if it can use it

[stoic hamlet]

The description isn’t on any other version of that attachment.

It is a description on another helmet, but it refers to the ARAGON sensors.

[latent junco]

Infinite also is about the ARGON sensor array
but the only helmet is can go on is Scout in Infinite, which is canonically a sniper helmet

[unborn patrol]

the HUL includes both the Argon and Willow attachments

they are like sister modules

Willow being what the system was renamed to in infinite (the gungir mod)

[latent junco]

(From Infinite's description)
"AN/PZY-6000 ARGON ground reconnaissance and surveillance (RS) were introduced during the Covenant War as arial and orbital sensor platforms became scarce."

[stoic hamlet]

Seeing as GUNGNIR’s WYRD optics suite in various forms has found its way into a number of weapon systems, evidently it s capabilities do lend itself to sniping.

Though I’d say that only makes sense, considering it’d need to be when it was originally made for use with the Laser.

[latent junco]

https://www.halopedia.org/GUNGNIR-class_Mjolnir
Halopedia page on GUNGNIR
Its only "Role(s)" section text is: Optimized use of the M6 Spartan Laser from Project GUNGNIR

[unborn patrol]

yeah

[carmine sleet]

To be fair, given that unlike most other helmets it has a small camera opposed to a full visor, that would still be really good for a sniper as there would be a significantly smaller chance that the glint of light falling on it would get the sniper noticed (Though hopefully by the time your target has seen that glint, they'd already be dead)

[stoic hamlet]

Sure, but Kovan using it does imply it’s used by snipers.

She only used a laser in Vertical Umbridge, nowhere in Rubicon Protocol does she use one, and she laments losing her custom S7 rather than lament not having a laser.

Though, she’s also the only Spartan we’ve ever seen using GUNGNIR, so I will admit our sample size is small.

[latent junco]

Its just a random one-off thing for GUNGNIR I think
GUNGNIR users have never been known to use snipers (Outside of that ^)

[stoic hamlet]

Gungnir users don’t exist.

No one else has ever been shown to wear the helmet.

[latent junco]

in cannon anyway

[stoic hamlet]

Until we see someone else, Kovan is all we have.

[carmine sleet]

Don't tempt me to make member 3 of my OC's fireteam wear it

[stoic hamlet]

Ergo she’s what we know of for the armour and its use case.

[unborn patrol]

my spartan wears it lol

[stoic hamlet]

I have one who wears it also, lol

[carmine sleet]

Fair

[latent junco]

I used it for a bit, but I prefer Mark VI
Stormfall GUNGNIR is way closer than S5 GUNGNIR too, to Reach anyway

[unborn patrol]

Im sure theres a ton of helmets that havent seen cannon appearances it doesnt mean the one time it is used the unintended way means thats the right way or the only way

[stoic hamlet]

I mean, is it unintended though?

Is kind of my point.

[unborn patrol]

yes in a way it is

its like bringing a machete to file a tuna. like yeah itll do it and its more than capable but I think youre overdessed

[latent junco]

No helmet is "unintended" to use certain weapons or vehicles, certain helmets are just more highly optimized for certain systems

[unborn patrol]

true

[unborn patrol]

this does help indeed

[stoic hamlet]

She’s all we have to go on, by proxy she’s therefore using it correctly because clearly despite descriptions implying it’s only meant to be used with a laser, it’s features lend itself to her style of combat… which is sniping.

[latent junco]

Like, anyone with any training could pick up and use a sniper, even if they don't have a Netmoon system, or Scout helmet, but those are just more optimized for it

[unborn patrol]

but like I said before, the TAS will help with everything as long as it involves getting a projectile from A to B. its more than good for sniping. overqualified even

[stoic hamlet]

Well, SCOUT per infinite isn’t meant for sniping. At least GEN1 Mark V.

It was a test bed for sensor systems.

But it works in that role.

[latent junco]

SCOUT systems in general are more optimized for sniping though

[unborn patrol]

I dont think its good to latch onto the one use case weve seen as proof for your argument

[stoic hamlet]

Sniping, tracking… scouting…

[unborn patrol]

when the lore is pretty clear on what it was made for

like theyve literally told us

theres nothing vague about it

[latent junco]

Side thought: but I'm a bit surprised they haven't made the TAS/NETMOON cross helmet yet, bc there's a ton with similar enough geometry to port it fairly easily

[unborn patrol]

wym by that?

like have the attachment available on more helmets ingame?

[latent junco]

yea
from different cores

[stoic hamlet]

That’s true of most infinite helmets, really. A lot of attachments could go on most helmets without issues.

[unborn patrol]

yeah

[latent junco]

its only on Mark VII, Firefall, and VOLANT rn (maybe a few others but idrk)

[stoic hamlet]

Aside from the helmet specific ones.

Deadeye as well.

[unborn patrol]

and something we really need is the ability to have multiple attachments at once

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/428445263590588427/1253025248723599472/Attachments6.png?ex=66745a33&is=667308b3&hm=2950faa6b6bd04411880ee8a515a95f845fce9a023f22fd24ae980d77de84c25&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1206&height=754

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/428445263590588427/1253025328654450810/Attachments2.png?ex=66745a46&is=667308c6&hm=3cb83b4dd9fa083bcd4b470d6ed2f1c6e350d709fc4dd9eacb79f1e65a364f76&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1206&height=754

I made a few photos to see if it could work

indeed it could

and in my opinion is the original intended way as they did it in reach

[latent junco]

ISR, Celox, Cavallino, Mechanite, and War Master is all the helmets that the NETMOON is on, including the ones before

[unborn patrol]

which is quite a few if you think about it

cant think of many attachments that have so much crossover apart from the smaller hardlink stuff

[high elbow]

I definitely think it would be nice to be able to have one “big” attachment (Netmoon, CBRN, various UA bits) and the smaller comms or camera.

Do I want that as an excuse to be able to use the Pearl Module and the cat ears? Yes but that’s not important rn

[carmine sleet]

They should just make the cat ears standard across all helmets, no questions asked

[unique rune]

I would put the cat ears on my Spartan
if I owned them at least

[carmine sleet]

I'm glad I got them back when they first released

[unborn patrol]

I think best case scenario you could have 4 attachments on your helmet. each side of the helmet, jaw and top of the helmet

I think if they just gave each attachment a tag in the code that prevents you from having 2 of the same tag on at once itd be an easy system to make happen

itll need double checking with the bigger components and maybe some tags cant work with others but

I see it as a fairly simple thing to solve tbh

[high elbow]

Somehow the only thing that came to mind was attaching as many small attachments at once. Ace of Spades, cat hear, all the communication links, flood noodles, and shudders CBRN stuff

[sonic lagoon]

So how many Spartans wore the Base Mark 4 armor besides Red Team, Omega Team, and Cal?

[gusty star]

All of them did at one point

[quartz grove]

How many wore Granular? Better question, have any one here ever had Granular coating? If so... I got an offer for you.

[spark pivot]

None, and no, i dont really like how the coating looks, and i wasnt buying oreo's durning the time it was released

Also this is the wrong channel for advertising stuff

[bronze prawn]

Is it required some special protocols to fire a ring, like

can a reclaimer just find a ring, get the index and ligth it without the whole "flood containment protocol"

would the monitors just ¿agree?

[spark pivot]

Probably, yes

If a reclaimer walked up and said, i wanna fire this, no theres no flood, they would just be like, aight, bet most likely

There was also the monitor of the ark who tried to fire the rings to reset the universe bc he was mad that they fired the unfinished ring on the ark and it badly damaged the ark

[latent junco]

Not necessarily
The Index I believe is carried by a Monitor, and so has to be "inserted" by one, and the ring can only be fired by a human or Forerunner hand (I believe)
Not all monitors would want Halo to fire, but the reason Spark did, is because he knew that the Flood was an immanent threat, so he wanted to stop them, but iirc he was also beginning to go rampant, so he wasn't in his right mind in a way, but most Monitors would most likely say no if the Flood was not an immanent threat, nor any other species similar to the Flood, since the rings were programmed as a Flood containment system on galactic scale
Most Monitors that would say yes no matter what, are ones on the verge of rampancy, and trying to take control of the galaxy for the Forerunners again

from what I remember from playing the games, and reading up a bit on the Halo array

[bronze prawn]

all monitors are in a half state of rampancy

[spark pivot]

Its not carrid by a monitor, and did you nit plsy CE? Chief inserted the index

[bronze prawn]

from 343 to the ones in zeta halo

[spark pivot]

Its stored in the library if i remember the structure name correctly

[spark pivot]

Not true, see halo 5 guardians, and the ones in halo infinite showed no signs of rampancy

[latent junco]

still, its not easy to get to if a Monitor doesn't want

[spark pivot]

Monitors will usually obey the reclaimer

Considering, yk, reclaimer status

[latent junco]

usually
But again, if there's no immanent threat, a Monitor most likely wouldn't want Halo to fire

[spark pivot]

And the monitors wouldnt really care, they're just there to keep the ring in working order

Hence why the the monitor of the ark trid to fire the rings bc he was salty that chief did what he had to do to beat the flood by firing the unfinished ring

[spark pivot]

Also your last point in this message is just blatantly untrue

[mossy arrow]

Learned another thing from the team

Gram

Do Spartans shut down temporarily

After a certian amount of time

[empty bloom]

Instagram being stupid again?

Because that isn't a thing.

[mossy arrow]

Probably

[mossy arrow]

That’s what I’m asking

Why

[empty bloom]

... Because it isn't?

Spartans are just augmented people, they don't need to 'shut down temporarily'.

Unless you mean sleep, but everybody does that, and even then they don't need to do it as often or as long as normies do.

[prisma sierra]

You're telling me any human right now can kill the entire galaxy

[wispy pewter]

back when every Spartan wore the same MK IV Mjolnir. Now theres like a 1000 different variations

you know it's funny they allow cripples to be Spartans. Like missing limb? doesn't matter. I wonder why the UNSC doesn't have actual robot soldiers

[mossy arrow]

That’s why I’m asking

Forgot to put asterisk

[surreal bay]

Yes because the Forerunners didn't have much foresight

[mossy arrow]

Robots don’t have quick reaction times and full thought process

They can’t make quick decisions

[unique rune]

Because Spartans are an investment? They aren’t “just cripples” or whatever you seem to think those who need prosthetics are. Meanwhile robots would be a major potential liability.

Dumb AI wouldn’t have the capacity to properly function on a battlefield, smart AI would be a waste of resources.

[empty bloom]

Well, that, and combat-grade prosthetics are pretty common. UNSC's got crazy good medical tech.

Honestly, I'd wonder why there's not more people who voluntarily get borg'd up.

[carmine sleet]

Please never refer to disabled people with that word ever again

[last anchor]

Social stigma

Mind you that might be changing soon as augmentation becomes an out patient surgery in some cases, so we might see some Mechanicus style views soon

[empty bloom]

I should know, I'd love to get cyborg'd up.

[unborn patrol]

I imagine having cybernetic limbs would actually be a benefit since those can be much better than organic ones at least what it comes to strength and durability. Can dip your hands in lava and be fine

In my fireteam theres one spartan with all limbs replaced due to multiple combat incidents

[carmine sleet]

The lava would melt the prosthetic

[wispy pewter]

can survive floor is lava

[unborn patrol]

Idk if it would but it should last longer than organics and it wouldnt hurt

[unborn patrol]

True

[wispy pewter]

Elysium is so cool. the UEG should build one

[empty bloom]

Eh, MJOLNIR's already pretty much the uppermost limit on personal survivability. Most Spartans also apparently wear their prosthetics, if they have any, under the plates, not as like Kat.

[carmine sleet]

You realise that lava is one of the most dangerous things you could possibly stick your hand in, right? Doesn't matter if it's a prosthetic or a biological arm, it's getting cooked in lava

[unborn patrol]

For sure

[unborn patrol]

Kind of feel like this is just to explain away the lack of visible ones in most games in the series

Kind of sucked we didnt have any in 4 or 5

Unless they also have the suit over the prosthetic youd still see it under the plating

[prisma sierra]

Titanium can't take plasma it won't take Lava

Or wouulldd it

[unborn patrol]

Would be pretty cool to get a plated version of these limbs

[unborn patrol]

Isnt plasma hotter than lava generally?

Probably depends on the lore

[prisma sierra]

I think so

Idk man

One of the Alpha Niner has a robot leg

Idk if she had it before or after augmentations

[unborn patrol]

Quick google nonsense search plasma is around 10000 kelvins and lava about a 1000 kelvins

[prisma sierra]

You said plasma twice

Ok

[unborn patrol]

Yeah adhd

[prisma sierra]

Then I would assume titanium A or whatever should be able to. I mean they use the same metal on star ships

[unborn patrol]

And probably something far worse than plasma still out there

Even non thermal plasma is twice as hot as lava

[carmine sleet]

Before she was augmented she got that leg

[empty bloom]

I mean, considering I think exposed prosthetics on MJOLNIR is a stupid idea, I don't care if it it's an excuse or not.

[spark pivot]

Yes

[unborn patrol]

see the thing is exposed is more swag. its really this simple

[empty bloom]

Swag is dumb

[high elbow]

I’m with you on this one. I get why the exposed limbs are exposed. But it makes more sense to keep the prosthetic inside what a normal suit of armor covers. It’s more vulnerable to wear and tear than it would be covered up by a nice chunk of Mojlnir

[unborn patrol]

god you can be annoying to talk with on here. youre abrasive, confrontational and sometimes downright demeaning towards others. and now you cant even take a joke? cmon lmao

please change and grow as a person

[empty bloom]

Yes

[empty bloom]

If 3 words is all it took for you to be that concerned, I'm very happy for your strong empathetic response.

[unborn patrol]

oh no its not these

ive been looking at the way you interact here ever since I joined

I recommend getting a grip on it

[empty bloom]

Basically... Yeah. That's the part that always bugs me about exposed prosthetics in that manner.

Less plating, less coverage, requirement of specialized prosthetics concurrent with your assigned or chosen suit, et cetera et cetera.

[empty bloom]

I recommend minding your own business.

[unborn patrol]

lmaoo

[stoic hamlet]

It’s notably a pretty recent thing.

James wasn’t ever indicated to have a visible prosthesis, after all.

[unborn patrol]

Im minding my own business because Im tired of talking to people that behave this way. so it is my business when you interact with me

[empty bloom]

Wait, really? I always figured that was a known quality of his prosthetic. Or did that change with the comic?

[stoic hamlet]

Though admittedly aside from him and Kat, and I guess Agryna we don’t have many examples of someone with prosthesis.

I guess Gretchen counts.

[empty bloom]

James, Kat, Agryna, Kodiak, Gretchen, and a few unnamed characters. Plus Halsey.

[stoic hamlet]

It never came up in the text. If you didn’t read that he lost the arm, you wouldn’t know.

[empty bloom]

Oop, yeah, this is post Mark IV. No visible prosthetic.

[stoic hamlet]

But yeah, I don’t think having a visible prosthetic makes sense, but I can understand why they did it.

Personally I think it makes sense for Kat, probably not anyone else, though. Like, you could say something by Kat having her visible, or Gretchen, or whoever.

But all of them feels a bit odd.

Halsey especially I can’t see doing it.

[empty bloom]

"and when he lost his arm he did not even whimper."

Y'know, I don't think most people would whimper when they get an arm ripped off.

They'd likely scream or groan or whatever.

... Man, I need to take a whack at rewriting parts of Jame's Halopedia article.

Really? I mean, what would she even cover it with though?

[empty bloom]

In regards to Halsey

[stoic hamlet]

I mean, while with Jul? Nothing.

But she doesn’t seem the type to let it be exposed.

I had a co-worker and good friend who lost her arm at the elbow, and though she had absolutely no issues with it, and had no issues with anyone knowing, she still kept it covered as often as she could, because even with a prosthetic, she didn’t like the attention, and she lost it when she was a child.

Halsey losing hers when she was so old, and in so violent a manner, Idk, it doesn’t seem like she’d be the type to flaunt it like that.

[empty bloom]

I mean, she did point out that she liked doing it to needle Palmer in particular.

And... Well, maybe I'm reading back a bit, but it wouldn't surprise me if Halsey's flaunting it not to everyone, but specifically to piss off Palmer.

(I always got her being super weirdly petty from a vibes standpoint)

[stoic hamlet]

Mhm, very true.

I mean, it could a,so just be that people in the 26th century aren’t as prudish about that stuff. We know at least when it comes to space travel nudity is just kind of accepted, due to cryo.

[empty bloom]

Well, when you exist in a timeframe where you can grow a fresh kidney in a day, or heal destroyed vocal cords in a week, or live in a world where cancer is practically unheard of...

I guess it makes sense.

[vivid umbra]

God knows when that'll happen since they leave so many things in limbo

[spark pivot]

My recommendation is never take anything trench says seriously unless you can agree with it, because this is how they usually actt, until someone more foolish than him comes around, then they gets his act together for a little

[carmine sleet]

May wanna check what Trench's pronouns are

[spark pivot]

I apologize, but i dont just go around looking at peoples profiles like that.

[last anchor]

I don't think Fall of Reach even mentioned he had one.
He lost his arm to the Hunter and was just...fine
Ni mention of a prosthetic at all that I remember

[last anchor]

That's basically her entire personality at its core

My armor
My Spartans
My research

Hell she even says ir in Spartan ops outright

She acts surprisingly petty and spiteful when restrictions of any sort are put on her

(On Kats arm: that always seemed like a lack of time. She lost her arm, they needed her back in the field. Give her a basic prostrtic and keep going.)

[stoic hamlet]

She says it in Silent Storm as well.

When she’s not among people she trusts, she’s a real petty woman.

[last anchor]

To smart for her own good and socially awkward
Further fire for my "Halsey is neurodivergent" theory

[empty bloom]

Foolish. Interesting choice of word.

[empty bloom]

Honestly, that doesn't bother me as much as 'foolish'.

[spark pivot]

I couldnt find a word that accurately describes the way you act that wouldnt have me jumped in a dark alley

[last anchor]

To be entirely fair, pretty good portion of the fanbase applies for your commentary
Looking at you, people who think they can make a video game better than an actual company when they can't even install Ad Block without needing Geek Squad help

The gap between those who know and understand the lore and universe and those that don't (for any reason) is basically the size of one of the fractures on Zeta Halo.

Always been that way tho.

[prisma sierra]

They should at least make the prosthetics bigger. So it doesn't look like you have Anorexia in one arm

I wonder if you can put the Mjolnir over it

[unique rune]

I think that’s kind of an insensitive thing to say about a condition that can be as debilitating as anorexia and one that almost certainly doesn’t give people mechanical limbs

[last anchor]

I doubt there's ONE kind of prosthetic anyway
Optican is too big for there to be one specific model. There must be thousands, if they aren't individually customized and fitted

[unique rune]

I dunno if I'd go as far as thousands, but I'd imagine there's probably a few dozen semi-standardized prosthetics from different manufacturers that can be sized to the user as is appropriate.

[last anchor]

Minifactured on a local level. I'd buy that

[empty bloom]

Hmmmmmn.

[sonic lagoon]

Are the any instances of Foxholes in Halo?

[last anchor]

On Alpha Halo, in The Flood
Presumably any tried and true combat tactic we have today carried over. The physical benefits of being below ground level have not gone away in 500 years

[empty bloom]

The damn infantry square stuck around, lmao

Somehow

[sonic lagoon]

Spider Holes would still be very useful.

[stoic hamlet]

They appear in Oblivion as well, and Ghosts of Onyx has them implied but not shown.

But yeah there’s no reason you wouldn’t see them used, like most modern tactics.

[mossy arrow]

Fall of reach was a goated movie

[crisp shell]

sigma opinion

[prisma sierra]

Do Spartans explode if you shoot their fusion cores

[carmine sleet]

I'd be concerned about how badly damaged their armour would be if their armour's fusion core was exposed enough that you can land a clear shot on it

[versed helm]

a 10km long MAC cannon that fires a shell the size of a bullet's the answer

oh wait that'd mean the spartan would just be evaporated

then i have no idea what would have to happen

[prisma sierra]

They go to heaven

I like to call those grunts wearing white armor Spartan Grunts. Because them crab legs can tank a forerunner weapon head on

[carmine sleet]

The Grunt Ultras?

[prisma sierra]

Idk. They have a name?

Okay it seems it is ultra grunts

[tired peak]

Can energy swords work under water

[high elbow]

Probably but

1. The water around the activated blade would constantly be boiling/turning into steam
2. The battery drain would be nuts in order to keep the sword active. If anything I could see an energy sword underwater as a very last ditch effort in a fight

[stoic hamlet]

I could see it used more as a cutting tool than a weapon, tbh.

[unborn patrol]

making a steam sauna with this method

[high elbow]

Now I want to see what kinda of relaxation equipment the elites have

[empty bloom]

Under video game logic, probably.

Under IRL sciences, the fusion reactor's explosion wouldn't be more than like, a cell phone going off. Fusion isn't that volatile, especially at MJOLNIR's scale.

[pliant valley]

I have a theory that Atriox will do some silly time stuff which will change the timeline in minor ways. The reason I say that is because I think 343 wants to "clean" the lore a bit, or make it a bit more vague when it comes to the events of the games.

I say this because I think the CE remake is real, and I think it'll have some stuff in it to make it part of what I'm calling "loose cannon", meaning elements in the game happen no matter what, but they might happen in different ways no matter what.

An example I thought of is how Linda is in space for all of CE and is founded very soon after the game ends. She, if playing on co-op, could just be with John instead for the game, making it an event that could or couldn't happen during the coarse of a game.

Another example is doing side missions are required, but can change how the story goes. The Prophet during CE could maybe have a mission you hunt him down and kill him, leading to an increased level of good decision making coming from Thel in the campaign, but an increase in logs you can find of covie forces not liking the fact that they're glassing parts of the ring.

The last example is one for Halo 3, and is an example of this kind of being the case for that game at least. When you play for player co-op, you not only play as the arbiter, but as two other elite characters that have some roles in outside media. When you play solo in halo 3, the arbiter's role is reduced a decent amount, and it'd be interesting to see similar stuff like that in every halo game, though in halo 4 it'd be difficult for sure if they remade that

also, it would probably be safe to assume that things are retconned in the universe unless the new media says otherwise, with whatever is newest going thanks to the Artiox time goofing

[carmine sleet]

I don't think we're going to be seeing Atriox pulling a Toymaker from Doctor Who and making a jigsaw out of the Halo timeline

And what's your basis for why you think 343i wants to clean up the lore?

Because they don't need to come up with a lore reason to do that and what you're suggesting is doing the opposite and making it messier

[empty bloom]

I hate every aspect of these.

[empty bloom]

And this, especially since it'd accomplish the opposite of what you think.

[carmine sleet]

If, and this is a big if, Atriox has time travelled, I am betting it's a closed loop, where time says he had to go back or forwards in time for the timeline to flow the way it is

Kinda like going back in time to learn who caused the Great Fire of London, only to discover you were the one who caused it by going back in time

[unique rune]

if they start doing time travel retcon-reboot whatever I feel like they should really just kill the franchise at that point

[pliant valley]

tbh, I'm not a big fan of these ideas either, I was mostly just voicing a theory I had on how I think these remakes might be approached, especially since I know the Dead Space remake and RE Remakes did similar with there stories, making things flow into the next game a bit better and needing to retcon or add things to the games that weren't there before to make it feel like a more unified experience

sorry to making it out to be a thing of "this is what halo should do!"

[tired peak]

So it whould work like a Star wars lightsaber

[high elbow]

Maybe? Idk squat about Star Wars. Not my thing in the slightest

[carmine sleet]

So your basis for thinking this in the first place is based on other franchises not owned by Microsoft?

[tired peak]

At least watch the CLONE WARS

[carmine sleet]

Lightsabers are blades of superheated plasma in Star Wars, they're pretty similar to the Energy Sword in how they function but the designs are drastically different

[high elbow]

I appreciate the suggestion, but no thank you

[carmine sleet]

Honestly, I don't think Clone Wars is as good as people make it out to be

The best starting place for Star Wars is A New Hope as that was the first film made

[pliant valley]

they both followed a lot of things from each other being from different publishers, and a lot of remakes seem to follow the part of "lets make this the cleaned up version of the game", with one of the larger exceptions to the rule being the Legendary Edition to Mass Effect, which is what I would want the remake (and possible remakes) to be closer to, just refining and even fixing some things that the games did a little wrong

and game devs look at other projects all the time, Halo looked at cod quite a bit, a lot of games looked at halo, trends are a trend for a reason

[carmine sleet]

The closest Halo got to looking like COD was Reach because it tried to be just as gritty

[pliant valley]

halo 4 loadouts

[carmine sleet]

And ME Legendary Edition isn't a remake, those are remasters of the ME trilogy, nothing about those games were remade for that collection

[carmine sleet]

If you think COD was the only game at that time with loadouts, you need to look into other games at the time, not to mention Bungie had wanted loadouts in Halo since Halo 2 but never figured out a way to implement them until Reach

[pliant valley]

the mako was redone entirely, the gunplay for 1 was made waaay better, mass effect 3 had the galaxy power overhauled, while not the full overhaul that many remakes tend to have, I would consider it as such thanks to just the amount of quality of life stuff it has in the game

in fact, they wanted to remake the game, but they couldn't move things super well to UE4, so they canned the engine change idea

[carmine sleet]

They didn't remake those games in the entirety though

Those changes are things that were done by going into the existing games and modifying them

That would be like saying the rereleases of Star Wars done in the 90s are remakes because they added new VFX to the films

[pliant valley]

regardless, I think it's a much better direction for a Halo CE remake to go in, quality of life fixes for some of the encounters, making vehicles not one shot going 1 mph, maybe even adding cover to the more wide open areas, adding some ODSTs and even fireteam raven at some parts, plently of just small changes could be added to CE while not taking away from it

[pliant valley]

and fair point, though my point is that they intended to remake the games, but didn't have to time or resources, so they just made the game nicer to play

[carmine sleet]

Some of those changes would take away from what makes CE what it is and some things not being there in game is not an issue at all. Most people aren't going to care about if ODSTs are being represented in CE or not

To use a comparison to Mass Effect, the Mako was horrible to drive in the first game, most people hated it because of that fact. The CE Warthog however, was beloved, even with it one hitting you when moving, because it still handled just fine, it has been outclassed by later iterations of the vehicle in newer games but it's still far better than the Mako was

[pliant valley]

I guess I was in different circles that you when it comes to the feeling of the warthog in CE then, because I don't really know anyone that would say they like the warthog in ce besides that it's funny to mess with, just like they would say about the mako in mass effect.

Sure, it's a part of the charm of OG CE, but it also is a relic of the past, CE is always a difficult one to get people into whenever I go through the campaigns with them. They tend to power through it and end up liking it, but they tend to say it's one of the most frustating games of the entire series.

I've played through the games more time than I can count and I love CE, but it's almost 25 years old and a lot of people liked that stuff out of nostalgia rather than it being a mechanically great thing to have. Every halo game after did away with the CE feel to vehicles, I get why people would want it that way, but I think it's better to get rid of a lot of the jank so people actually play it and appreciate the story and get invested into the universe, like What ME Legendary Edition did for the Mass Effect trilogy, Like the RE Remakes for 2, 3, and 4

[last anchor]

Except better in every way because light sabers can be blocked by stupid stuff, like cortosis and frik and beskar, whereas an energy sword uses both the heat AND the sharpness of its molecularly honed edge to cut, its not stopped by anything.

[last anchor]

And inferior in about every single way.

[empty bloom]

Dead Space Remake didn't use timetravel.

Frankly, I am incredibly caustic towards the majority of remakes or remasters.

The Dead Space one is the exception to the rule.

[pliant valley]

saying Artiox would probably be doing time stuff because it seemed like (at least before infinite) that they were leading up do time stuff, and even now they have at the very least alternate universes being used in current day lore. They could just retcon it, but I think they will do something in universe as an explanation so they don't have to worry about some aspects of lore as much anymore and keeping a majority of it still cannon

[empty bloom]

I don't see the facts that lead to your conclusion.

You should try presenting evidence instead of the nebulous 'they were clearly leading up to time stuff'

[pliant valley]

In the newest book, they use some multiverse mumbo jumbo to save the day, I'll see if I can grab an exact passage if you really want it

[empty bloom]

... They literally didn't.

I just read Outcasts, lmao, there's no multiverse.

[pliant valley]

I also gained the idea by looking at marathon infinity, which deals with a lot of multiverse time travel stuff

[empty bloom]

Same with Epitaph.

[pliant valley]

in epitapth they do, i'll grab it rq

[empty bloom]

Ah, so you got the idea from something completely unrelated.

[empty bloom]

They literally didn't. I've read the book cover to cover.

[pliant valley]

theory after all, and prep damn related when many aspects of halo were taken from it

[empty bloom]

I'd hope they'd not try to grab something that boneheaded.

Multiverses and time travel being retroactively added are narrative flaws. Any legitimate consideration towards them and the main timeline even mildly joining is a poor plan.

Fractures are fine because they explicitly begin and end at artsyle changes. Actual narrative implementation of time travel and multiverse systems in a franchise not fundamentally built around the concept, however, is just enforcing a capitulation to being rote, mediocre fanservice as opposed to a robust and effective narrative.

As many issues as I have with the storytelling of Halo, they'd be fundamentally more hobbled if they deigned to mainline time travel or multiverses.

[pliant valley]

Neural Physics in Halo rely on multiple universes to truly use effectly, and I had misremembered it saving the day, but it was used by the didact using a Neural Transmission in the Domain to observe what Cortana did

in addition, we have the fractures which at some point seemed connected with zeta halo's being damaged, especially since all the operations with them had a backdrop in the passes that came with a fractured image of Zeta Halo

[empty bloom]

Don't care, still an awful idea.

Like, I think you don't understand, I fundamentally do not agree that anything good, whatsoever, will ever come of even considering the idea.

I will never agree.

It's a terrible idea that spits in the face of nearly 24 years of fiction.

And anyone reasonable who actually gives a damn about the franchise should disagree with the idea of making a crappy remake, again.

[pliant valley]

I was just sharing a theory I had, doesn't mean I think it's a good idea

Like I said, something closer to ME Legendary Edition would be my cup of tea, keep most everything intact and only add to what's there already, and add some of the already existing tie in lore (i.e. ODST on Truth and Rec just like in the book, and Fireteam Raven popping up sometimes)

[carmine sleet]

Marathon ideas and concepts being used in early Halo is hardly proof that Halo planned to go the way of Marathon Infinity. Bungie were clear back when they had control over Halo that the two were unrelated outside of the fact they're both originally Bungie properties

[carmine sleet]

Pretty sure they used the fractured image of Zeta because it looked cool, not an attempt to hint at 07 being damaged cracking open the multiverse

If that was the case, I'd be confused as to why that didn't happen when Alpha Halo was destroyed or when Installation 03 ejected a section

[hot zodiac]

If you guys don't know Halo and Marathon are connected... well, ya should

(And Halo already has multiple timelines and stuff, that box has been opened)

[carmine sleet]

They're connected via Bungie and some shared concepts and names, that's it. They aren't the same continuity or anything

[carmine sleet]

And you're gonna have to explain what you mean by that

[orchid kettle]

Halo's got Marathon references and its debatable if CE was originally meant to connect to Marathon proper in some way

[pliant valley]

Zeta is a different ring than the rest, with it being 3 times larger than the other rings and part of the OG array rather than the lesser ark array (I know that also asks why didn't the destruction of the OG array also make some different timeline, and the answer is that it probably did)

[orchid kettle]

What I find funny is how Hood name drops the "UESC" in Halo 2

but it doesn't stand for the same thing as the UESC in Marathon

He says like United Earth Space Corps instead of whatever it is in Marathon

[pliant valley]

Yeah, I remembered that being weird until I played through Marathon and I was like 😲

[orchid kettle]

I do think its reasonable to assume that, however briefly, Halo CE was going to somehow connect to Marathon at some point in development.

Maybe when it made the jump from being about a modern US military fighting an alien invasion to a scifi setting where humans also had a space empire

[empty bloom]

It's not larger anymore.

After the FF war it shed 2/3 of its mass, so it's the same size as the 7 'new' rings.

[hot zodiac]

Fractures are exactly what was being disscussed, plus we have Silver timeline now

[orchid kettle]

Like, it seems reasonable to me that somebody on the team would go "Hey, we have a scifi franchise already, what if we make this a Marathon game?"

[empty bloom]

Fractures are different because they are simply artistic explorations, and have no strict plot interaction.

Silver is similar, but as it took way more to implement it, is still annoying.

[orchid kettle]

then again, From Soft likes making games in very similar settings and keeping them in separate universes

[empty bloom]

Armored Core be like

[pliant valley]

I forgot about that, my bad

[empty bloom]

"Why yes we have five continuities in this mecha franchise, what of it"

[hot zodiac]

Different continuities are so hardly damaging that I know this complaint is more related to the HCJ mindset then genuine discussion

[orchid kettle]

Demons' Souls, Dark Souls, Elden Ring

[empty bloom]

The "HCJ" mindset?

We just talking about boogeymen now?

[orchid kettle]

so many fallen kingdoms to explore, gods who turn out to be naughty bois to meet

[empty bloom]

How about you actually keep on topic, lmao

[hot zodiac]

The boogeyman of the literal mod? okay lol

Halo and Marathon don't seem to be in the exact same timeline, no... more parallels timelines (wink!)

[empty bloom]

@hot zodiac This. How is this 'HCJ mindset'.

[pliant valley]

Just saying that if the multiverse already exists in the halo universe, it's not hard to believe that the fractures are able to be some of them, even if they have no cross over with the main timeline and carry no narritive weight

[empty bloom]

Nope.

[hot zodiac]

^ Right there

[empty bloom]

"Right there"

[orchid kettle]

at the end of day, Halo is fictional anyway.

[empty bloom]

So many statements but so much nothing. Refusal to actually add anything of value is fun, isn't it.

[orchid kettle]

Its all equally not real, so I dunno, if it makes you happy to think that, go for it.

[obsidian thistle]

Fractures arnt a Multiverse for Halo. That would imply shared existence in some form.

Think Fractures more akin to there is this non-canon story thats got common themes across it! 🙂

[hot zodiac]

You're against it because "Halo reboots" have become a hot button topic surrounding the studio war in the fanbase, it threatens the status quo

Which is silly, because separate timelines aren't reboots

Which is why in response to CAL2ski's valid comment all he got was "Nope", similair to the "I don't care, I hate this" statements from above

And exactly why I said "^ Right there"

[carmine sleet]

To add to this, not everything needs the multiverse. Only reason it's a popular idea in media these days is because comic books did it and people saw Marvel was going that way with their movies and people wanted their own piece of the multiversal pie

[carmine sleet]

Also to second Trench, what is a "HCJ mindset"?

[pliant valley]

I think I'll leave the topic there since it seems like there's not a lot of people wanting to even discuss anything along those line (which I can't blame). I a big fan of multiverse stories since I grew up reading a bunch of "what if" comic books, and just different looks into a universe. They could be connected one day in a game that takes advantage of that in a fun way, but not ruining the main line universe with it. I think everyone got really uppity about it recently because of the Marvel multiverse being such a mess since they had to pump out content, and then every company, like Slipstream said, wanted a cut of the pie. Everyone knew multiverse would be popular thanks to largely, at least what I believe, Rick and Morty, and it proving that it wasn't too nerdy of a topic to talk about with everyday people, and they needed to do something about it to fight the power house that was marvel, which marvel tried to fight back on, but ended up burning themselves out, as well as everyone else who attempted to be part of the the pie, ruining the multiverse stories yet again since it was too much to keep up with and a big marketing move rather than actually compelling stories, like they can be

I guess in short, multiverse can be good, it's not always good, there's been some bad stories lately (thank you Spiderverse and Invincible for being real ones and actually being good), and I think a harmless connection to say that one of the multiple universes used in Neural Physics could be a fracture

[obsidian thistle]

I do like how Halo manages its fractures however

[empty bloom]

He's claiming that because I moderate a subreddit, that subreddit has rotted my brain to alternate interpretations of whatever hairbrained schemeing is involved in thinking reboots are acceptable.

[empty bloom]

You're right, they aren't, and I never said they were.

They are both awful, but they aren't the same thing, they're just awful for similar reasons.

[empty bloom]

Oh, I was against it before it was the 'now' topic. I've hated the concept for literal decades.

[hot zodiac]

lol... tbc, I don't think it "rotted your brain"

[empty bloom]

https://tenor.com/view/bart-simpson-simpsons-gif-21258017

[hot zodiac]

But yes, "different timelines" are completely harmless with the exception of "they aren't focusing on the timeline I want"

Rip SW Legends

[carmine sleet]

George Lucas never considered any of the Legends media canon, this has been known for years

[hot zodiac]

Lucasfilm did, and still does, under a different name

They just aren't developing it

George Lucas cannot comprehend the idea of "canon" and people should stop being so focused on what he did, in any front

[pliant valley]

I like the fractures a lot, I think it's a fun way to get fun cosmetics in the game, especially since non canon armor has had a long running tradition in the games and it's just cool that we can get some stories to go with them rather than "skull helmet", it's "this isn't just a WW1 inspired armor, it's for spartans in a different universe that use magic to become powerful"

[carmine sleet]

What a weird way to say "They disgarded the old EU and made a new one which doesn't have Palpatine coming back every few weeks"

[hot zodiac]

Don't threaten me with a good time lmao

[warm ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/popcorn-guy-relaxing-popcorm-popcorn-gif-26404903
me rn

[hot zodiac]

No embeds for me either, idk why

[warm ridge]

it's cause you need the inheritor role

which you can only get by being decently active in the server afaik

not sure of the exact requirements but yea

[empty bloom]

https://tenor.com/view/arnold-schwarzenegger-like-you-laughing-stud-gif-27270682

[hot zodiac]

Grinding to inheritor in a discord server is not exactly what I'm looking for

I'll save the gifs for the rest of y'all

[empty bloom]

I tend to get trusted roles early because of how I type.

For whatever reason it tends to be catnip to whatever algorythms are used.

[unique rune]

I have been here for five years but I guess because I refuse to engage with any channel outside of this one and the gear channel no one will let me have the role

[stoic hamlet]

I was here forever a few years, got banned and rejoined reletovely recently.

Such is life

[empty bloom]

I like to think it's just my glowing, loving, carefree personality shining through that endears me to unfeeling, info-scraping systems.

[last anchor]

Is it automated or do they note down people who are here and dont cause issues.
Ive always wondered that.

[empty bloom]

It's automated.

After all, I've been muted for days at a time before, a lot.

[prisma sierra]

You know 343 should have rebooted the universe with Halo 4

Call it 343 Halo or something

[unique rune]

ew

[hot zodiac]

You'd call it that either way, so not the best name choice imo

[spark pivot]

No, just no, all the reboots ive seen of franchises lately have been terrible and should never have existed

[prisma sierra]

Exactly....

It's terrible that's why it shouldn't be part of main canon

[spark pivot]

.....

[prisma sierra]

That's what happens when a new company is in charge of your IP

[spark pivot]

Your arguments make no sense

And i disagree with it being terrible, i liked all the 343 games campaigns except for infinites bc there wasnt really a story holding it up

[prisma sierra]

Tell me would George Lucas have made Ki Adi Mundi a traitor?

[spark pivot]

But besides that the campaign is fine

[spark pivot]

I dont know anything about star wars so dont start with the analogies

[prisma sierra]

Would Bungie have made Cortana evil?

[unique rune]

Uh

They literally considered it for Halo CE's campaign

And it came back for development on Halo 2's

[stoic hamlet]

And Halo 2’s, from memory.

Yeah.

They were gonna make Miranda evil in an early draft.

[prisma sierra]

Because Bungie ended their story in Reach and 343 carried it on. Note that Reach ended with the war won and all that

[stoic hamlet]

…no?

Reach was a prequel.

[spark pivot]

There's no proof of that....

[prisma sierra]

It was literally 2589 at the end of Reach

Or something

[spark pivot]

Hes talking abiut the end cutscene in 2580 or so

[spark pivot]

That was a cutscene with no context whatsoever, so no.

[unique rune]

Also like. Halo 3 ended with the war being over
I don't know what your point is here

[prisma sierra]

That would have been awesome

[stoic hamlet]

Even before Halo 3’s release but concurrent to Halo 2’s timeframe, in canon books, we had evidence of Sangheili forces willing to fight humanity post schism.

The groundwork for continued fighting was there for a long time.

[prisma sierra]

Like Halsey evil or join the covenant evil?

[stoic hamlet]

The latter.

[unique rune]

Halo 3 kind of has a problem of being a bit of an overly simplistic finale to a world with a whole lot more going on

[prisma sierra]

Ok nvm

[spark pivot]

^

Trilogies are cool and all, but there was way too much going on in halo for a trilogy of games that short

[hot zodiac]

Haha, I think I hate Halo 4 as much as the next guy, but Reach's ending definitely didn't preclude any fighting from 2552 until then, humanity was boned but the elites were available

[prisma sierra]

Humanity probably mass reverse engineered forerunner stuff

[hot zodiac]

More over obviously a "Halo 4" would've picked up with Chief at the planet, maybe just by himself (with Cortana of course)

[prisma sierra]

They really made Cortana and the Banished and turned Humanity into a joke again

[stoic hamlet]

Halo Evolutions as well has The Return, which features a Sangheili commander post war end the story by torturing a human.

[prisma sierra]

The Infinity lasted two games! That's a record

[unique rune]

I mean. People complained loudly for years about how humanity was "no longer the underdog" with Halo 4.
So.

[hot zodiac]

If you're going to be mad at the new stuff, you should be correct about it really

If Halo 4 was accurate to previous material the Infinity couldn't have existed at all

[prisma sierra]

Idk how they had the resources to build a 5km ship

But

I didn't hate the Infinity at all

Also I think falling to the Banished is kinda bs. They shouldn't have killed it off

[unique rune]

A Punic-class is 4km long, the Infinity arguably isn't that much of a stretch to follow it.

[empty bloom]

What's funny to me is that 5 basically solved the problem in the best way you could've without ruining the setting utterly.

And then Infinite comes along, and...

[prisma sierra]

Yeah it's no longer the underdog now. They are just food

[unique rune]

It really annoys me that between 4, 5, and Infinite, it feels like you can grasp at pieces of one singular Halo game that 343 has been trying to make but it's never actually going to be realized

[stoic hamlet]

And they made multiple Punics.

[empty bloom]

I mean, it's doubly frustrating when you can tell a lot of issues were getting raised, then subsequently shot down.

The only two spinoffs that ever got made were... Questionably thought out.

Wars 2? Massive narrative black hole.

Spartan Strike/Assault? Launches on a doomed tablet OS, eventually stumbles onto Steam and becomes a passable twinstick, dies in obscurity.

Recruit? Who cares

Fireteam Raven? Awesome for about a month, narratively adds nothing new.

[stoic hamlet]

It hurts the flood, so I don’t like it.

[empty bloom]

I'll be honest, the continuity snarls half those games made riles me up something fierce.

Who would've thought the damn tablet games would be the least offensive of the lineup to narrative cohesion?