lore-and-universe

[wispy pewter]

yeah i know but he's still wearing his armor most of the time on the infinity. like where is your helmet spartan

I need 343 to make spartans keep their helmets on especially when they are only wearing their armor

[empty bloom]

Mmmnk.

[last anchor]

Unlikely. And in truth, irrelevant.

[carmine sleet]

You say that like we only see them helmetless in the 343i games. Apart from Thorne, who like Trenchbird said had been teleported without his helmet, I can't think of any in the 343i games who are going about without helmets every time they're on mission

[rapid river]

Not to mention that helmetless Spartans (and ODSTs) were seen in Halo: Reach and Halo 3: ODST. no one really critiques those instances that much.

Even in 343'd games, I suppose you have Palmer in the level Infinity in Halo 4, but her appearances in Spartan Ops she is helmetless but onboard the Infinity where she doesn't require a helmet, and when we see her in action she's wearing her helmet.

[empty bloom]

I really never got why she had no helmet on in Infinity.

[carmine sleet]

That's probably the only time it doesn't make sense

[carmine sleet]

Like, the marines we see in Halo 3 that are helmetless are either injured and had been receiving treatment or were captured/caught by surprise. Same in ODST with Dare losing her helmet basically as soon as she left her pod

[wispy pewter]

i mean while majestic was playing around with the covie stuff they were helmetless in perhaps a hostile area

then next frame it's on again

[empty bloom]

Look, they worked really hard on those facial animations and none of their visors are like ODST helmets.

[carmine sleet]

They weren't in immediate danger in that moment too

[empty bloom]

(Also that's like, one issue out of how many with Spartan Ops? The Thorne fight is literally based off of the damn Kirk vs lizard man fight)

[carmine sleet]

In animation, sometimes you just skip over showing someone putting a helmet on because budgetary constraints

[wispy pewter]

yeah. it's like they put their helmets in their mincraft inventory

[carmine sleet]

Ok, I did not know that, I need more details

[empty bloom]

At least, I always assumed it was. It's about as cheesy. Hang on.

[carmine sleet]

Ah fair

[empty bloom]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SK0cUNMnMM

[empty bloom]

vs

https://youtu.be/4h5T-GoTHvU?t=81 (timestamp)

[wispy pewter]

is the mjolnir coms on the suit or in the helmet

[empty bloom]

Helmet.

[wispy pewter]

because when glassman asked he said not anymore

i see

i do wonder if he had shields on would it have deflected that sword damage on his armor

[empty bloom]

I always assumed it would.

MJOLNIR armor needs shield waveguides to have properly functioning shields, and the helmets contain several.

So logically, not having your helmet on prevents it from properly functioning. Can't cover where waveguides aren't. Covenant shields are weaker but don't seem to have as many restrictions.

[carmine sleet]

Ok, they at least must've looked at the fight from Star Trek for reference, some of the moves are clearly inspired by it

[empty bloom]

Right?

People always say I'm wrong and clearly crazy, but like, c'mon, lmao

[wispy pewter]

sometimes it seems they forgeet to add shield flickering and block stuff. like when Locke and Chief were fighting

[empty bloom]

Gek even does the patented Trekkie double hand swing.

[carmine sleet]

Sometimes people refuse to acknowledge that animators are allowed to look at other media for reference

[empty bloom]

Gek versus Thorne
Kirk versus Gorn

Like c'mon I'm just sayin, it's right there

[wispy pewter]

lol

Gorn went from lizard man costume to scary monsters in SNW

[empty bloom]

That's a pretty common problem for the Halo cutscenes, yeah. I think Reach was the one that actually did the best in regards to attention in that department.

[carmine sleet]

It doesn't always need to be the main focus either, there's an EVA 01 going beserk reference in RWBY 9 for example which happens to the side of the shot

[empty bloom]

Halo fans get really weird about references, like there's a pool of 'acceptable' and not.

Or inspirations.

[carmine sleet]

I say embrace the references

Give me a scene where a marine is going "Game over man, game over" before Chief helps him

[prisma sierra]

"maximum slipspace"

Ok nvm

[carmine sleet]

Give me a moment where in a cutscene fight, we see an Elite use a similar move to a fight from a LotR sword fight

Heck, give me a moment where a Spartan drives a Warthog through a wall like in Red Vs Blue

[prisma sierra]

Well Halo rings are a reference to Larry Niven's Ring World

[meager pier]

Yeah, and actually, either Bungie or Microsoft approached Niven if he was interested in writing the 1st Halo novel

[empty bloom]

Honestly, they likely didn't have time.

[unborn patrol]

is there a limit to how big a spartan fireteam can be?

like lore wise

[wispy pewter]

the most be have seen is Noble team that has like 6 people

are they even a fireteam

idk

there was like 300 Spartan IIIs somewhere... i think

[carmine sleet]

Both Alpha and Beta Company consisted of 300 Spartans

Gamma had 330

[prisma sierra]

Wow definitely not Leonidas and his Spartans

[carmine sleet]

Then there was going to be a Delta Company but we don't know what happened to them or if they were even trained since both Onyx was "destroyed" and there's nothing else known about Delta

[empty bloom]

They would not be standard as a unit, no.

[empty bloom]

A, B, and G would all be organized into fireteams or equivelants.

A III 'company' would be overstrength by a bit. A Company is organized into platoons, then sections, then squads, then fireteams.

We see some rudimentary allusions to that over the course of Ghosts of Onyx, where the IIIs are fighting as a fireteam in Op Torpedo.

So no, IIIs were not organized as SUPER FIRETEAMS, they were just organized as regular fireteams and deployed as companies.

[prisma sierra]

The Spirit of fire design is just so cool

[stoic hamlet]

To add to what Trench said (and to answer the original question), the largest team we know of is 33, as that was the number of Spartan II’s that were going to engage the Covenant ship over Chi-Cheti.

[prisma sierra]

Damn 33 Spartan IIs in one place? That's alot of dead covenant

[stoic hamlet]

Spartan Teams have no fixed roster or number, they can be as little as two members, or as many Spartans are present for the engagement.

[last anchor]

Theres a nearly identical one during CE, remember.
When they get to the bridge of the Truth and Reconciliation one of the Marines panics before Keyes tells them to get out.

[orchid kettle]

stow your leather necking soldier and remember you're a belly ache

[carmine sleet]

True but I think Halo could get away with doing it again

[orchid kettle]

I will say I do kinda prefer it if media doesn't get too self-referential

I'd rather have new things to meme and repeat endlessly

[wispy pewter]

Guilty Spark has a gollum reference

[prisma sierra]

My precious

[last anchor]

It is a ring after all

[carmine sleet]

And it would allow you to rule them all

[wispy pewter]

can't believe master chief is nearly 50

[carmine sleet]

I can

[last anchor]

Dude spends a lot of time in cryo.
Remember how Johnson was.
And Cole.
And Keyes
Etc.

If you serve in the Navy or at least on board a UNSC vessel you spend a lot of time in cryo (or at least, that was the old lore, stuff shifts around now a lot. I think a lot of the older stuff was a direct Aliens reference and its slowly become less relevant)

[wispy pewter]

i wonder if spartans can still move like they are 20 even when they are like 60 years old

[last anchor]

Just watch the opening of Infinite for that answer. Chief spins on a dime to murder a Jackal like its nothing.

Spartans age like a good whiskey

[wispy pewter]

no joint pain or back pain

i'd imagine the average civilian or rich people would want to have augmentations for that reason

[unborn patrol]

Yeah I imagine these guys dont suffer from aging the same at all

Theres also the ”use it or lose it”
Even regular people that excercise their whole lives consistently age well

[pallid thicket]

I’ve been pondering what kind of humans would fit well in the Brute-led Banished

Then I think of the kind that are part of raider groups in Fallout

[orchid kettle]

Probably those "raiders" originally mentioned in Fall of Reach, which apparently were as likely to tear human space apart as the insurrectionists

[prisma sierra]

Humans that feel the UNSC has failed them

Honestly it would make more sense like that. But then you see Banished also kill the humans that join them

They hate humans in general

I'm still reading Divine Wind...

[pallid thicket]

Doesn’t their whole philosophy reject race hatred and allows anyone to join so long as they are strong enough and willing to be free of all “oppressors” (be that either the Prophets or the UEG)? In addition to acquiring riches through plunder etc

[prisma sierra]

Yeah. But In divine wind the banished turned on the humans. Maybe I have to keep reading...

Some of them atleast

It mentions Atriox doesn't mind Humans

But Esharum dude hates humans

[pallid thicket]

Well Escharum is an old brute who comes from a different time

Old enough to remember when the Covenant found Doisac and the Brutes getting inducted into the Covenant

[empty bloom]

Now I'm just imagining Escharum trying to get other brutes to laugh at boomer wife memes.

[pallid thicket]

Atriox just hates the UNSC. Guess who else hates them?

The innies

[prisma sierra]

I still don't understand what's the beef with humanity and the Banished?

I mean UNSC

Does Atriox want to use the Halo arrays?

[pallid thicket]

Well Cortana pulled an Alderaan on Doisac

And Atriox blames the UNSC for her existence

[prisma sierra]

I see

[empty bloom]

Okay so

Zeta Halo is theoretically special because it can target specific planets if they retained that original functionality.

[pallid thicket]

Wasn’t it part of the original array?

[empty bloom]

What's more, who wouldn't want a Ring as a home? It's literally having a gun pointed at the head of the galaxy.

[empty bloom]

Yep, which is why it hypothetically can target specific worlds. Atriox is surprisingly well versed on Precursors and Forerunners for a brute.

[pallid thicket]

I guess he’d have to be. Not just any brute can successfully start and maintain a faction as large as the Banished

A faction that kept even the Covenant on its toes

[empty bloom]

A lot of his tech grabbing is very specific and coordinated. It's why, before Epitaph, I actually assumed he got imprinted with the mind of the Ur-Didact in a fashion similar to the Iso-Didact.

[orchid kettle]

He's just weirdly knowledgeable about artifacts

To the point that it kinda feels like a plot hole

[empty bloom]

Which is why I was assuming this was the case, tbh, because I felt something Forerunner imprinting on him was the idea.

[prisma sierra]

Beating the covenant sure but not an old ship like the spirit of fire?

[empty bloom]

A rival lifeworker, Faber, Ur-Didact, something to explain how this single brute is the Genghis Khan of Brutes.

[orchid kettle]

No, only humans get super special forerunner gene knowledge

[carmine sleet]

Wasn't Atriox originally given the name of Didact Hunter (Or something similar) in concept art? Obviously that name isn't canon but still important to note

[empty bloom]

This is the first I'm hearing of it.

[pallid thicket]

same

I need to finish Epitaph

[empty bloom]

Oh, I was assuming it wasn't by choice, but rather that it was forced on him somehow. Did he have the head plates when he went traitor?

[orchid kettle]

I still find it funny he found out about the Outcasts plot because he found a downed Phaeton

[pallid thicket]

I only have time to get through Halo books via Audible but I'm glad they gave the incentive to go that route by having the voice of the Ur-Didact as the audiobook reader for Epitaph

[orchid kettle]

like dang, it's just that easy, huh

[empty bloom]

Like I usually hate to be the girl who's all 'Oh yeah it's gotta be (insert ancient race) mucking about with current events!', but Atriox is a special case.

[gusty star]

Didact Hunter was one of several nicknames in that piece of concept art. Another one was “Iron Monkey”

[orchid kettle]

But yeah, so far, dude found the way to the Ark without a portal, knew about a portal on Reach somehow and told his followers to find it, came across info on the Guardian Killer, and then also found out a bunch of Zeta Halo secrets

[empty bloom]

I mean, him being at the Ark to try finding Didact makes some sense I guess.

[orchid kettle]

without ever being on Zeta Halo before

[empty bloom]

Seriously, I mean

Come on

After a certain point it's bullcrap

And that point's in the rearview

[orchid kettle]

Oh and he has that thing that apparently bypasses forerunner security locks guarding the Endless

and he may have had it for a while because we first saw it as a hologram in Escharum's power point presentation

it opens up and reveals the Harbinger cylix, which I just assume means this artifact is also where he got all the Endless info from

[empty bloom]

Ah, the Halocron.

Not to be confused with a holocron.

[orchid kettle]

watch it literally be Faber's essence bottle or something

like that Soul of a Promethean Knight box but its a fidget spinner

and it whispers in Atriox's... wait brutes dont have ears

his hearing hole

[empty bloom]

I swear, those things on his head have to be some Forerunner macguffin or something to explain how he just knows this crap.

Literally the only brute to wear those goofy things.

[wispy pewter]

Brutes are like.. well brutal

but Atriox is smart too?

[carmine sleet]

Ah thanks! Glad I remembered correctly

[carmine sleet]

My bet is he found that on the Ark

[empty bloom]

Brutes are brutal, but a lot iof the Banished lore is supposed to show that they are far from stupid.

If anything they're smart as hell, just entirely tuned towards killing or making killing easier.

[orchid kettle]

I think the intent is that Brutes have always been intelligent, they just kinda have anger management issues

this is kinda partly why I had always assumed the First Immolation happened hundreds of years ago as opposed to only 80 or whatever

Because my assumption was that they invented nukes more or less around the same time humans did

[wispy pewter]

i think they are also in space around the same time

[orchid kettle]

But they didn't, uh, make it through their version of the Cuban Missile Crisis unscathed

[empty bloom]

That's also why I assume most brutes are actually the descendants of a supersoldier program.

One for whatever war broke out that busted them down to mad max.

[orchid kettle]

it didn't help either that the verbage they always used was like

"The Brutes sent themselves back to the Stone Age, and they were only beginning to rediscover tech like the radio when the Covenant found them"

[carmine sleet]

It wouldn't surprise me if the Hierarchs also purposely kept them from being as well educated as the Elites and Prophets within the Covenant

[orchid kettle]

that makes the gap between the First Immolation and the Covenant discovering them sound a lot further apart than a single lifetime

[wispy pewter]

damn

[orchid kettle]

I dunno, technology needs time to be lost and rediscovered

[wispy pewter]

at this point are the humans still technologically inferior to the covenant

[empty bloom]

Yes.

[orchid kettle]

If it's just a post apocalypse where people still remember the before times, that doesn't really sound lost to me

[wispy pewter]

We see Series 8 Mac go trough forerunner technology

[empty bloom]

Most of the best tech is extremely rare-humanity spikes above but can't maintain that level of superiority techwise enough to make their entire military use it.

[orchid kettle]

The Prophets and Elites basically "cheated" anyway by having a bunch of forerunner artifacts to reverse engineer

[empty bloom]

Like, there's only a maximum of eight known Series 8s, and they use the single best ship reactor ever devised.

[orchid kettle]

otherwise it seems like at this point after the reseeding, most races should have been at Tier 4 or whatever

since there's no mention of Brutes or Jackals having any forerunner stuff to tinker with

[wispy pewter]

Spartan Laser is the only unsc handhelf energy based weapon isn't it

it's close to whjat we saw ancient humans use

[empty bloom]

No.

Humanity's reverse engineered a plasma rifle for example.

[carmine sleet]

The Splaser is nothing like ancient human weaponry

[orchid kettle]

I mean, who can say for certain

[empty bloom]

Doctrine wise, swapping to energy weapons wouldn't make sense for the UNSC. For the Covenant it likely took centuries first them to start mainlining plasma, and even then a solid third of their arsenal is still fundamentally ballistic.

[orchid kettle]

we saw like one image of ancient humans fighting

maybe its plasma, maybe its a laser, i dunno

[versed helm]

plasma would be op if we kept to lore and real life

[wispy pewter]

yeah they looked cool tho

[empty bloom]

It is 'OP'... Within about 50ish meters.

[versed helm]

like in lore we know that humans would be able to make plasma that travels absurdly fast and is a continous beam

[versed helm]

that could aswell be used in ship combat

[empty bloom]

Yeah, they already figured out the better gun and made ships entirely built around it.

[versed helm]

and we also know that a plasma pistol's bolt would one shot any living thing

[empty bloom]

demonstrably untrue.

[orchid kettle]

well you could argue a Hunter's armor isn't really it's natural body

so maybe the swarm still gets cooked pretty thoroughly by an overcharged bolt

[empty bloom]

It's gonna suck if you get hit but winging wounds aren't gonna fry you.

[versed helm]

i mean melting a circle about 20 centimeters in radius and then 3 degree burns over a few meters sounds pretty deadly to me

[orchid kettle]

especially if it's like Uprising where it explodes like a rocket for some reason

[empty bloom]

It's lethal if you hit the right spot. Like a bullet.

Which the UNSC makes trillions of.

And would require decades to swap away from.

Because that's how these things work.

The UNSC's stance overall is that the weapons it has are fine-with improvements mostly being made on ships first, because frankly, that's what was struggling the most. They already have whole ship lines built around reverse engineered pulse lasers, which are better than Plasma; They already make ships with fully functional shields en masse.

[wispy pewter]

do they have AP rounds in halo? like titanium tipped rounds for the AR

[empty bloom]

Yes.

The sniper rifle fires a damn sabot.

[wispy pewter]

damn

[empty bloom]

The Magnum from CE fires a HEAP round

Etc etc

[orchid kettle]

And then sometimes they just don't fire AP rounds for whatever reason, or their infantry armor is just that tough

Like Johnson gets lit up in Silent Storm by SMGs

but he was wearing odst armor so he's just fine

[empty bloom]

Silent Storm mentioned, I am now quivering with utter rage

[orchid kettle]

Even Lopez takes a couple MA5 rounds to the chestplate before the third catches her in the shoulder, which I assume is the part that isnt armored

[wispy pewter]

I wonder if ODST armor is made with like Halo's titanium?

[orchid kettle]

Itd be incredibly heavy is the thing

but I guess in kilo-5, the helmet at least deflects a shot from a needle rifle

I would guess only the helmet and the chestplate are

and everything else is, I dunno, something else

[wispy pewter]

now the UNSC need to start refitting the latest Macs on its ships

if it's even possible

[orchid kettle]

considering ships are often built around the MAC, you're probably better off just making new ships in a lot of cases

[wispy pewter]

idk if the UNSC is capable of building anymore infinity class ships

[empty bloom]

Do people just like, ignore me saying they put massive lasers on things

Y'know, lasers like the sniper ship in Fall of Reach uses

[orchid kettle]

The Anlace, my beloved

[empty bloom]

And the Mulsanne.

[orchid kettle]

sure wish it had some missiles though...

[empty bloom]

Honestly, I like the concept of a laser boat.

[orchid kettle]

the lack of any conventional armament makes me think the ship is a lil too experimental

[wispy pewter]

oh they fire lasers

and can somehow fit a few in the infinity

[empty bloom]

Yes. The ship that shoots in Halo Infinite, on Highpower? That's not a MAC.

[orchid kettle]

everything can be improved with more archer pods

[wispy pewter]

what the the heck they are 300 meters in length and theres 10 of them inside infinity

is the infinity hollow?

[empty bloom]

I WANT MORE (Weapon type) BOATS IN HALO AND I WANT THEM NOW

[orchid kettle]

no those are the Onagers

those are just on the exterior, on the side

[wispy pewter]

I do wonder how it'd fare against energy shields of like a covie ship

[empty bloom]

I want a Cruiser built entirely around mounting a full scale Series 8

[orchid kettle]

Which isn't honestly too unusual given how recently they leaned into Halo ships having coil guns

[empty bloom]

Better than a MAC would.

Presumably.

Unlike Halo's weird infantry guns, the ships are actually fairly competent.

[orchid kettle]

Ill always be annoyed at the downfall of the plasma torpedo

in the nylund books it was basically an evil red kamehameha the entire ship had to charge up

[empty bloom]

I still think it's just the physical container for the torpedo itself that someone else misconstrued as literally being the torpedo.

[orchid kettle]

now they're just, well, torpedoes

[empty bloom]

Like, the energy that they use for the Torpedos.

[orchid kettle]

I kinda just imagine them as big fuel rods now

Banshee bombs can track moving targets, after all. Just take that and upscale it.

[orchid kettle]

Maybe, but I think on Warfleet and the Encyclopedia, they keep mentioning covenant ships having a bunch of torpedo silos

Like one ship had 16 of them or whatever

[empty bloom]

I mean wouldn't they need to have those to fire either type?

You need a firing aperture, so

[wispy pewter]

speaking of torpedoes. We don't see antimatter weapons do we?

[empty bloom]

No.

[orchid kettle]

Well in First Strike they're fired from like a gimbal turret or whatever

more like those weird plasma cannons from the Reach corvette

and ships only ever seemed to fire one at a time after a lengthy charge up

[unique rune]

...Yes? To carry things, a supercarrier is going to need to have lots of internal space.

[wispy pewter]

right

[orchid kettle]

There's antimatter bombs

I think also when people brought up the inconsistency of plasma torpedoes being solid projectiles instead of pure plasma, 343 insisted they were just following the story bible

[wispy pewter]

do we see Mulsanne-class in books or is it a Halo Infinite thing

[orchid kettle]

without really denying the idea that torpedoes were physical, just the complaint that it was a retcon

[stoic hamlet]

https://www.halowaypoint.com/news/canon-fodder-in-zane-in-the-membrane

[empty bloom]

Oh, brother, these puns STINK

[empty bloom]

Oh... Boy. Wildly outdated MJOLNIR?

[stoic hamlet]

You hate to see it.

[empty bloom]

"With the leader of the Created dead, the future of this fledgling faction has been thrown into doubt. High Auxiliary Sloan has returned to Meridian where he occupies a Promethean Knight’s carapace and wanders the vast glasslands of his home to find his own fate."

[stoic hamlet]

It’s actually a good story, ngl.

Though I much preferred the one from Battle Born about the Insurrection.

[orchid kettle]

with the power of GEN3, everything is up to date apparently

[empty bloom]

Ehhhhhhh

Mark IV is pointedly described as not, with most GEN3-ized examples apparently being hacked together and ramshackle.

[orchid kettle]

which kinda annoys me a smidge because Im not entirely sure what to visualize when I think of GEN3

because it can just be anything I guess

[empty bloom]

I think it's better to think of Generations in terms of 'design archtypes' over specific variants and such.

Like, GEN2 being characterized by X and Y

GEN1 being characterized by Z and Q

Etc

[orchid kettle]

You could at least say that GEN2 was united by the tech suit mostly being the same, no matter what the titanium outer shells looked like

[stoic hamlet]

That’s part of what makes the GEN thing so annoying.

If everything can be GEN3, why bother making the Mark VII? Why not have everyone stay in Mark IV or VI, or even V?

They’ve even gone back and said that GEN2 and GEN1 aren’t even majorly different and that all these GEN’s will coexist for years… but like… why?

If there’s no visual style and no obvious differences why have a GEN system at all?

[orchid kettle]

If we didn't blow our load on Gungnir and Hrunting way back when I wouldn't have minded the idea of just calling GEN 2 something different than MJOLNIR entirely

Might as well lean into it being a specialized suit built for schpeed and mobility over endurance

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah. I mean, that’s basically what MIRAGE, OSTEO and Rakshasa are. Not-MJOLNIR but compatible with them.

And it works out fine.

[empty bloom]

I mean, physically, the actual function isn't that different; But considering the big tech benefit of GEN2 was more just slotting all the important stuff in the soft suit over the hard plate, whereas GEN1 couldn't do that (Miniaturization), I don't think that they're that different.

The two things that set GEN1 and GEN2 apart are more democratized and varied plating options, and GEN2 basically folding all the external stuff to an internal level.

As for GEN3, uh...

I have no idea what sets GEN3 apart from GEN1 or 2.

[empty bloom]

The 2022 enc description still annoys the bejeezus out of me.

[orchid kettle]

For me its not even so much about that as just those trailers of Locke zipping around the battlefield like Iron Man

But I guess enhanced mobility wasn't really something they thought up until 5 and by then we've had GEN2 for three years

[empty bloom]

The idea of GEN2's core is kind of justifying the mocap method they started using and making MJOLNIR a 'viable' power armor, much like the Crysis suit. People say "Power Rangers" but anyone with a brain is seeing Crysis in those suits due to the purposeful usage of extensive hexagons and 'musculature'.

Now, I don't think going with pseudo-Iron Man (Granted, GEN2 can't actually fly, it more just glides) was a bad call. It actually managed to convey MJOLNIR's weight quite well considering how much Locke and co just simply smash through everyting.

Personally, I strongly reject the notion that it should be considered more frail, at least on average. I could see them running into my hypothetical reasoning behind why Kat died to a needle rifle (Ushuaia Armory being less competent than its competition and making an inferior product) for suits like Legionnaire or ultralight suits like Stinger, but on average?

Like, the grounds for it are basically "Well, the armor doesn't have a codpiece", usually. The plating itself usually otherwise covers roughly equal physical space, OTOH.

[fair hazel]

Yay canon fodder and ooo book cover and go Patenaude go!

Vociferous

[sonic lagoon]

Yeah, I could definitely see Crysis inspiring the armor, which is cool since Crysis is great, even better than most halo games by far.

Except maybe for Halo 2 but the rest are of such high quality.

[fair hazel]

That's, an, opinion.

I disagree with lots of being said gen wise but I don't want to get into it, rather get into the new canon fodder

[sonic lagoon]

Indeed.

[fair hazel]

Kinda sad that Vociferous left 343 though, I didn't even know

[empty bloom]

... I feel bad for not knowing who that is.

[carmine sleet]

Different Way to Campaign guy

Loved those videos

Shame we never got more for the more recent games

[empty bloom]

@stoic hamlet So the Spartan in the cover might well be James.

@last anchor

Wait.

Wrong limb.

[stoic hamlet]

I hope it’s neither Vannak nor James.

Or any II. It should be a IV.

[empty bloom]

It'll be a IV who will die in a pointless way to fulfill the death quota.

[last anchor]

I'm cool with it being James

Unlikely but amusing if it was

[empty bloom]

A finger of the monkey's paw curls inward...

[stoic hamlet]

We have too many alive II’s, man. We don’t need anymore, lol

[bronze prawn]

wait isnt james flying over reach

[stoic hamlet]

I don’t even think it should be a III.

And this is me, we’re talking about here.

[stoic hamlet]

Apparently it’s not Vannak, and seemingly not James either:

https://twitter.com/haruspis/status/1790844484613226838

[empty bloom]

It's Frank Kodiak.

:3

[stoic hamlet]

Honestly I’d take it.

As long as it’s not a II.

[fair hazel]

I dont see a no james

[last anchor]

The other possibility rhat came to me

[dusk jetty]

Somehow James returned

Would be so based

[empty bloom]

On opposite day maybe.

[prisma sierra]

Is there a reason Master Chief didn't receive thrusters for his Mjolnir

[carmine sleet]

He had thrusters in Halo 5

[versed helm]

I’ve always wondered: why does the Mjolnir MK. V (the helmet specifically) that chief wears in Combat Evolved look different than what we see with the other iterations of the MK. V, like with delta and the base versions that have been in Halo Reach & Infinite?

[prisma sierra]

I wonder what happened to the bubble shields

[cobalt notch]

hey so i got suggested to ask for help with identifying 3 halo ships in this channel, anyone who is up to help? :)

[native coral]

Post the pic via imgur so folks can help rather than waiting for a response

[cobalt notch]

alr

wait can i just post the image instead of uploading it to imgur?

https://imgur.com/a/RDjQCox

here it is

[prisma sierra]

Well it's definitely not covenant

[native coral]

@obsidian thistle work your magic

[carmine sleet]

Different iterations of the same design, both in the real world and in universe. Though it is odd it has had so many variations deployed in the field. If it was just the Mark V we see in CE and Reach's Mark V[b], it wouldn't be a big deal, but the Delta and Zeta variants both exist. Though the Zeta has at least got lore explaining what it does

[prisma sierra]

First one is probably the Orion class carrier

I Google lensed it

Looks pretty similar

[cobalt notch]

Alr

Thanks!

Yep it’s def the Orion

[obsidian thistle]

Not to well versed on Fanon ships admittedly

Seeing as I actively avoid fanon lol

Top: Orion (Sins of the Prophets - Fanon version)
Middle: Charon
Bottom: Strident

These I believe are all SOTP versions

[cobalt notch]

thank you so incredibly much!

[obsidian thistle]

So may not be 1 to 1 with canon. (Love those peeps however)

[cobalt notch]

alr, i'm only gonna use them for a "template" for an orion class (probably) i'll make in another game :)

i'll make it around 55 meters long so yeah it won't be close to 1:1 i think

[obsidian thistle]

Reminder: Please talk to the SotP crew before ya casually use their stuff! 🙂 Only fair thing to do.

[cobalt notch]

https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/066/427/178/large/chokepoint-games-vindication-class-light-battleship13.jpg?1692871287

found this

[cobalt notch]

who's SotP?

[obsidian thistle]

Chokepoint Games to be exact

They do fan ship stuff for a few games! (And are pretty rad)

[cobalt notch]

oh nice

i will obv modify it to fit my specific needs and what i want it for :)

[obsidian thistle]

Big Note: These are fan made stuff. Not official.

[cobalt notch]

alr

[native coral]

ty cia ❤️

[cobalt notch]

i'll try to talk to them (if i find them lol) but i assume they'll be okay if i make my own version of it

[versed helm]

I wanted to get some opinions on this: Would you guy consider Arbiter's story to be "finished", or do you think there is still more that can be done with him?

[scarlet quiver]

Totally more to be done with him.

[wispy pewter]

idk I just started reading outcasts.. but it's interesting

[versed helm]

should be in halo 7

[empty bloom]

I think they should more heavily focus on him relegating himself back to a strategic/political position over 5's 'frontline but not' role.

While elites are generally morons when it comes to war, Thel went to great pains to pair the Sword's martial preferences with human-derived additions such as medics and merit-based appointment. I think it would narratively be a step backwards for him if he continued to seemingly act like a frontline special forces officer while others seemingly do his job as martial and cultural leader of his nation.

[unborn patrol]

Morons is pretty strong

[empty bloom]

Not really. An in-depth analysis of how Sangheili tended to prosecute their wars paints them as pretty much the opposite of intelligent combatants-Thel's actually one of the only significant exceptions, Jul being another.

• You get promoted based upon how many kills you get.
• Your pilots are actively encouraged to work more to stop being a pilot, as opposed to being a better pilot, so they can net ground positions.
• Most elite warriors who fail to secure a promotion in their first campaign 'remove themselves'.
• Highly trained and disciplined commanders prefer to lead from the frontlines, thus resulting in very, very dead commanders.
• The end goal of troopers who are promoted on the ground, is to be promoted to coordinate... Naval efforts.
• Naval troops, like Seraph pilots, are likely wanting to get into ground positions-or boarding actions.
• The martial culture encourages reckless and aggressive tactics to gain as much 'honor' (Civilian and infantry kills) as possible over securing actual military objectives.
• The martial culture encourages ignoring wounds and constant efforts to reengage the enemy even when these actions are fruitless.
• The martial culture encourages utilization of 'lesser' infantry to root out traps, which encourages less effective infantry tactics as your 'lesser' troops suffer from dissent.
• Elite culture further discourages older troops from going back and cycling out to train newer generations-which is not good for consistent baseline troop skills.

[wispy pewter]

I still don't understand how warrior type species in sci fi manages to discover interstellar travel

[empty bloom]

Well, with the Elites, I'd say it can be safely assumed that the Prophets more or less twisted and mangled their culture into a charicature, which is why elites tend to be bad warriors with an ego the size of the Orion arm.

Like, the universe likes to say elites are super skilled, but actual realistic appraisal of their capabilities leaves them wanting.

Like, Thel is considered revolutionary for doing things humanity figured out centuries ago.

Which, while a common problem in sci fi (Oh my god, a feint? Nobody has ever done a feint, ever!), where commanders are lauded as tactical geniuses for doing what is considered 'bare minimum' counterplay, makes more sense for the Elites, because to them, a leader who actually displays competence over arrogant peacocking is practically unheard of.

[prisma sierra]

Well maybe when they become less mean Sanghelios and earth can finally have a cultural exchange

Wait nvm just read on the halopedia one bombed a city on earth

[raven lintel]

what are the endless?

[empty bloom]

We don't know.

[carmine sleet]

There's plenty of UNSC and SoS joint ventures, like research on Onyx or Anvil Station

[empty bloom]

Or the entire Joint Occupied Zone that never gets talked about until someone brings up that it exists.

[carmine sleet]

Aye

I hope that we hear about Grey Team's exploits there one day

[empty bloom]

Still boggles my mind that people don't see Grey Team's continued existence as the Arbiter being incredibly merciful.

Like, the destruction of Glyke could absolutely be considered a causus belli, and I doubt he was popular for choosing to forgive.

You know what sucks? Actually worrying about this bothers me because I'd bet actual money that if I asked 343i's current writer crop, they'd likely say that the Sangheili aren't a fundamentally broken society that has some serious growing pains ahead of it.

Despite them clearly being a broken society.

[empty bloom]

That's not meant a diss to the writers, mind, despite how I said it; I imagine it's a mandate out of their hands and with proper ability would likely not agree with said mandate, if it was a thing.

[ruby canopy]

Arbiter's existence can be credited to chief being merciful. Plus Arbiter's human kill count is outrageous

[empty bloom]

Who gives a crap about Chief in the context of Glyke?

No, really, who? That happened when everyone thought Chief was dead anyways, hell, they didn't find out about it until 2558-and Thel didn't know Chief was alive until around 2559, from what we can tell.

[empty bloom]

Also, neither of these are political reasons that would nullify a causus belli.

Because that's not how politics works.

Actually, no, I'm annoyed that people keep saying either of those, because neither excuse actually makes sense in the context of actually defending why Thel didn't do anything, so I'm going to systematically dismantle both points.

Starting with whatever the hell Chief has to do with this; Chief pulling a gun on Thel at the time in a moment of panic was A) Done when Thel was clearly not aware he'd have a pistol in his teeth because he approached as an ally and B) Chief pulling that trigger would've gotten humanity killed, because without Sangheili cooperation humanity could not have successfully stopped the firing of the rings or survived the flood. Chief's trigger-happiness could've botched the alliance before it even had a chance to grow wings, so no, Thel should not consider it a 'mercy'. Chief should be glad Thel didn't try to stop him and that he didn't pull the trigger before Johnson told him to chill. If anything, Chief should be glad that Thel actually understood the situation and didn't try to counter-escalate or hold it against his allies.

As for Thel's kill count, his actions eventually directly contributed to the establishment of a Human-Sangheili alliance at the onset of the Great Schism, especially when hotter heads absolutely wanted to finish the job once the prophets were dead-there was a whole three games and a full book trilogy about these Sangheili, in case you missed them. While he obviously shouldn't be glad about killing that many humans, that's effectively a non-factor considering he's also the reason humans and Sangheili are on speaking terms. It factors into diplomatic deals in that he feels bad about it, but the power difference between the elites and humans for most of the negotiations were significant enough that the UNSC couldn't really do anything about this. It doesn't matter that Thel killed a lot of humans, and nobody in the UNSC proper tended to forgive him for years of war; What mattered is that he was the most significant Sangheili leader that didn't want to kill humans anymore, and actively pushed for cooperation.

[ruby canopy]

I'm only making the point that most characters in the story have survived due to the mercy of someone else. And I'm gonna go out on a limb and say neither of us really know how politics work

[empty bloom]

Oh, no, I study it constantly.

Power dynamics at that scale aren't exactly easy to understand but in the context of the Swords and the UEG, it's pretty clean cut. It's half the reason I even get annoyed that I have to explain why Glyke politically was a massive scandal and problem that Thel frankly could've pushed harder to get what he wanted.

And that his enemies absolutely could've pushed to show why the Arbiter was a weak leader who couldn't be trusted with power.

In fact, they problably did push that.

It's a civilization-scale species that spent millennia focusing nigh-exclusively on killing things and waging war, peacocking and strutting about as it crushed rebellions. There's going to be a very strong emphasis on a leader being martially strong and tough on those who wrong you. Choosing to ally the ones who wronged you during a state of relative peace is... Well, it's certainly a sign that Thel's a risk-taker.

[ruby canopy]

I know people who've studied political science for years, and even with their degrees they admit to not fully grasping it

[empty bloom]

Which is why this one is simple. All the facts are right there.

Thel would've likely been absolutely within his power and rights to execute Grey team for that action, and the UNSC would've been within its right to either deny involvement ("Rogue Spartan Team") to save face behind closed doors, or attempt to stop it and risk escalation.

Instead the choice was made to have them undergo teamwork rehab with Sangheili, a mutually beneficial action but one that would be politically easy to capitalize upon as a sign of him being a weak leader who cowtows to the UNSC's wants and needs, giving dissidents like Jul or Telcam fuel.

[ruby canopy]

Even with all the facts. We're still attempting to put real life concepts into fictional work

[hot zodiac]

You'd definitely have humans high up on the political ladder who'd hold Thel's actions against him hard

[empty bloom]

If your setting doesn't have practical and comprehensible rules, it's not a worthwhile setting. Why do you think I hate how Infinite's plot works?

Or why I absolutely hate the concept of time travel in fictional universes where it is not a core component from the word go?

[hot zodiac]

Normally I'd say that the Elites can say "well alright" but still try to help humans anyway if it weren't for that "full book trilogy" giving humanity the most nonsensical buff

[empty bloom]

I always construed the Kilo 5 trilogy as being done at a point in time where Sangheili were struggling to figure out what to do, giving the UNSC unprecedented freedom of movement and relative capability to abuse Sangheili weakness. If the UNSC managed to actually get on the Arbiter's hit list, I'm not convinced he couldn't wrangle people like Jul or the anti-Thel Kaidons under a banner to attempt to wipe out humanity, and I am entirely convinced Thel would have an actual army to succeed at the task.

It's half the reason I think Parangosky's plan would've backfired spectacularly if the grain thing were ever made public, but even if it did start, it'd likely result in fingers pointed at the UNSC.

Because ultimately, it was transparently a massive attempt to kill the Sangheili off as a species. Not exactly subtle, and worse, one that would likely make Arbiter completely rethink his choice in allies.

[bronze prawn]

Why the flood retreated during the human forerruner war

[empty bloom]

To let the Forerunners burn themselves out fighting the humans.

[bronze prawn]

They had the upper hand and humanity was really weaked, the flood could have probably done what they eventually did during the forerruner flood war

[empty bloom]

... So yeah, they did exactly that.

[bronze prawn]

The cure that risk 1/3 of human population didnt actually work so

They did a " whats 17 more years" ?

[ruby canopy]

When we talk about political science we also have to tie in a great deal of psychology and philosophy and it really becomes a mess. I've spent an immense amount of time studying eastern philosophy and it so different from western philosophy right down to the definitions of words we think to be universal

[rapid river]

What I don't understand is how ONI's grain/genocide plot didn't become public when Jul 'Mdama - a key witness of said plot and victim of that experimentation - became a massive political player in the post-war period, with the backing of numerous remnant factions and even entire colonies behind him as his military power and political influence almost allowed his forces to take Sangheili after his death and weakening of his faction.

The grain plot should have been a massive rallying flag for dissident Sangheili against the Arbiter and once neural worlds afraid that humanity would attempt to exterminate them.

[empty bloom]

If I were to come up with an answer for this on the fly, I imagine Sangheili culture would frown upon captured prisoners.

So it would harm his support base.

Like, logically, yes, you're absolutely right.

[stoic hamlet]

I could see this being the reason, yeah. If we had to come up with something.

[prisma sierra]

Well I guess one thing Cortana did good was destroy ONI

But let's be real one elite planet nuked is nothing in comparison to the dozens of colonies they glassed

If anything they are lucky humanity didn't want revenge

[empty bloom]

She literally completely failed to do this.

[empty bloom]

Oh, no, humanity going for a more in depth revenge would've just gotten humanity splattered like a bug on a windshield.

Why, yes, let's give the Sangheili and brutes and such a reason to continue prosecuting their war of extermination to hold off fracturing a liiiitle longer. Brilliant move.

[prisma sierra]

I think only Thel 'Vadam is fond of humans

Also doesn't most of these covenant species rely on the prophet species for the technology

[versed helm]

Currently having a bit of a powerscaling discussion, what is the most impressive thing that Chief has tanked/survived?

[unborn patrol]

well there is Vel Trokaik

[wispy pewter]

he fell

[versed helm]

Seems valid.

[wispy pewter]

also somehow survived a hit from Atriox hammer

the same hammer that sent red team flying

granted he has shields

[unborn patrol]

he sort of cheated, but technically to me the worst thing he survived was a blast from the composer

with it turning every human surrounding him into dust

but yea slight cheating with librarians thing

[versed helm]

I see.

[empty bloom]

Composer, falling from the Dawn to Requiem's Surface. 4's honestly responsible for his largest bouts of being OP.

[stoic hamlet]

Tbf, so did Red Team.

[empty bloom]

I should note that powerscaling Chief's physicality is a fool's errand.

He struggled to outmelee a brute and an elite after about a week and a half(?) of fighting on Alpha Halo, while IVs who had been fighting near nonstop for four months on Zeta Halo were still capable of disemboweling their brute opponents via melee after having a third of their bones broken or cracked.

Early lore Spartans tend to be far weaker than their new lore counterparts.

[prisma sierra]

I think Atriox is simply built different

[unborn patrol]

definitely is

[wispy pewter]

Spartan IVs have been on crack recently

[stoic hamlet]

I’d say that’s true to an extent.

Early lore Spartans could do a lot more in a short period, but didn’t have a lot of stamina.

Whereas later lore Spartans seem weaker overall, but have a lot more stamina.

Which I kinda prefer~

[empty bloom]

Always were, people just don't appreciate them because of the slew of misconceptions.

[empty bloom]

I do think durability got ramped up a lot, but that could just as easily be the MJOLNIR.

Like, Horvath gets outright impaled and is nearly back to 100% after being left in a ditch for a few weeks.

[stoic hamlet]

It’s just overall. Not just MJOLNIR.

I guess it’s not durability, but more perseverance.

[empty bloom]

And Stone, well, getting rammed by a ghost tends to do nasty things your skeleton.

[wispy pewter]

Spartans have better regenerative healing right

[empty bloom]

Spartans in general seem to, yeah.

[stoic hamlet]

Yeah

[empty bloom]

I'd honestly say that IVs likely have healing nearly on par with II healing considering the injuries the Rubicons survived and healed from.

Horvath had multiple organs failing and healed from that; Kovan apparently ate a gravity hammer to the face at one point on Zeta, considering she confirmed the injury to Stone.

Comparatively, Chief's leg getting burned badly isn't even that bad, and Kelly was injured but functional from her own wounds.

[wispy pewter]

damn

and Cal 141 died instantly

probably the armor

[empty bloom]

Well, there's a reason I am incredibly dismissive towards people who try to put their OCs in Mark IV.

If you're stepping into Mark IV in 2560, you're basically expressly saying that you are choosing to wear completely inferior equipment.

[wispy pewter]

I guess it's just the looks

[empty bloom]

I'd honestly wager (Not that the writers would agree with me) that GEN2 likely has better defenses.

[wispy pewter]

Red team is still kicking butts

[empty bloom]

Not even just shields.

[empty bloom]

I mean, that tracks. In order to achieve the same defenses as a modern day full SEP Abrams, you'd basically need to stack a few Sherman tanks in a row.

Mark IV looks robust, and kind of is, but it's not going to be as robust as something informed by two decades of MJOLNIR workshopping.

(This is why GEN2 getting flanderized as the 'fragile' core annoys me, because... It realistically shouldn't be.)

Sorry, I'll stop blabbing about GEN2.

Anyways, Mark IV being bulky and ineffecient would honestly make the most sense out of anything. It looks robust and thick, and it certainly is, but it's making up for material deficiencies, not bulky because they wanted to stack armor.

[wispy pewter]

Vale looks like she came from a different sci fi universe

[empty bloom]

Her armor is physiologically modeled after an elite's armor.

So.

Same universe, really.

[stoic hamlet]

Omega team being expressly issued Mark VI then reverting to Mark IV… for some reason.

[empty bloom]

I assume their armor is ship-of-Theseused.

And is basically the ur-example of "We upgraded this as much as we could, but Mark IV just can't hit GEN3 standards"

It's all I can assume, because the other assumption is that they're freaking morons.

[stoic hamlet]

I take it as this.

Because like, we see them wearing Mark VI in a canon fodder, lol

[empty bloom]

Spartan IIs are not beating the nostalgic moron allegations, huh.

Coughs in Naomi wearing a Mark Vb lookalike

Coughs again in Blue Team wearing the Mark IV spinoff

[wispy pewter]

back when all the spartans looked the same

[empty bloom]

I still don't really like that.

I don't like amazing technicolor Spartan population but I dislike homogenous armor just as much.

[stoic hamlet]

I think the mark IV helmets do a good job at sticking to a theme and using slight variations to make it work.

Infinite in general does a pretty good job, I think. If you really try:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/321461313681227777/1182098582363459654/image.png?ex=664b3158&is=6649dfd8&hm=dd65eaa8a682b81434d77f3efaf6c38bd799782ea8d0aaa3b10acacf4e8417c9&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/321461313681227777/1182099824212967466/image.png?ex=664b3280&is=6649e100&hm=33ced768184c650162555724805e9b4d0c8ef6f1a0b05b7abb3a85a98f4a6fc2&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/321461313681227777/1182101001617027133/image.png?ex=664b3399&is=6649e219&hm=e8770240fe5164d66c39bc59dbca3494840bdd8e59b70cb31b62f39c739389cc&

It’s just… Halo doesn’t really try.

[sonic lagoon]

Can civilians own firearms in the Halo universe?

[unique rune]

Um. Yeah.

I'm pretty sure like 9/10 times civilians ever make an appearance in Halo media they're armed with something.

[empty bloom]

I imagine it also largely depends on local laws.

[wise snow]

Like Trenchbird said, it likely depends on the laws of the area where a civilian is living, just like real life.

[stoic hamlet]

Likely Outer Colonies tend to own more, probably.

[last anchor]

The M90 can be owned by civilians for sure
So can the M6 series

The M395 also has a civilian hunting version

[empty bloom]

The Frontier has Guta's.

Soooooo might want something to defend your goofy little Hungarian-themed farmhouse.

That is... Clearly not built to provide food to anyone but you, lmao.

[coarse crown]

So... Camp Noble Team or Camp...

Practical/environment-color schemes with personal touches and mission/role-specific equipment?

[empty bloom]

I can make an example of what I mean in a bit, I'm currently doing a thing.

[coarse crown]

Do the thing.

[stoic hamlet]

For me it’s the latter.

[empty bloom]

Hypothetical Noble Team.

(Note Emile being less dumb)

[empty bloom]

Ah, to have the vibes of the Gulf War marine fit where they wear a mix of US Tricolor Desert, US Sixcolor Desert, ERDL.

[stoic hamlet]

But how do I tell them apart?!?!?!!?!!?!??!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!????!?

[empty bloom]

Well, you see, the undisciplined moron is wearing a fishbowl.

The rest are professional stereotypes 1, 2, 3, and 5.

... I just realized how weird it is that this is actually the core I've spent the least on.

[coarse crown]

Comes from the best battlepass they've put out, is why.

Parts for two cores and enough kits to make us think that system was gonna put in actual work.

[stoic hamlet]

I just with most of the V[B] stuff was on other cores. All of the chests mostly should be there, because they’re just pouches

We need more pouches, essentially.

[last anchor]

You can never have too many

[coarse crown]

Magazine pouches, grenade pouches, dump pouches, snack pouches, binocular/rangefinder pouch, UAV pouch, UAV controller pouch...

[empty bloom]

I hate that pass though.

(Because it's about Reach)

(And I hate Reach)

[coarse crown]

I can't help that.

(I depise some of the art decisions made, myself.)

(worst ODSTs in the series, imo)

[unique rune]

but but but but but Remember Reach guys

[stoic hamlet]

HD2 (and Ghost Recon) have given me an appreciation of rucksacks and backpacks. I want more of those in Halo.

Also little drones~

[last anchor]

Bring Chief his poncho back.

The man looked good in it. They even made an action figure for him. I want that in game.

[pallid knoll]

I just wish they would bring back the Halo 3 designs instead of exclusively using Reach for classic armor

[stoic hamlet]

Well, Reach is closest to how the Spartans are described in the early books, including The Fall of Reach, which predates CE’s release… so… which is more classic, really? 😜

[pallid knoll]

fair, but my point is that I prefer Halo 3’s EVA and Recon helmets to how they look in Reach

[prisma sierra]

I really like when Spartans had customised additions to their armor like pouches and ammo

[hexed scaffold]

I'm writing a story with Master Chief in it but I don't know much about Halo. Could anyone tell me what he's like, and how I should write him and Cortana?

[wispy pewter]

can try asking google gemini that

[hexed scaffold]

Who's that

[wispy pewter]

do you live under a rock man

[hexed scaffold]

Yeah

[wispy pewter]

it's google's AI

[hexed scaffold]

I dunno

[wispy pewter]

I want to say mean things to you

[hexed scaffold]

I don't trust Google to give me a straight answer

[hexed scaffold]

I though it was called copilot

[wispy pewter]

okay let me search

[hexed scaffold]

It's fine I can just do it

[wispy pewter]

or you can wait for someone to reply to you

[hexed scaffold]

Yeah I'll wait

Should I repost. It's kinda buried under previous posts

[last anchor]

Go to Halopedia

[carmine sleet]

Ignore everything Jean has said, they're not being helpful. Orca's advice of checking Halopedia is good as it has a section for both characters about their personalities and traits

[wise snow]

Halopedia is a good place to look. But if you wanna get a feel for how he acts in the games you can also just look up cut scene compilations of YouTube

[hexed scaffold]

Got it, thank you.

[stoic hamlet]

To add to what @wise snow said, I’d say Halo Infinite is the best look at John’s character from a narrative sense, and is the closest to his book iterations.

[empty bloom]

For better or for worse.

[last anchor]

It certainly has him talking the most and interacting with people more than in the previous games.
CE through 3, I dont think he made all that many comments that weren't mission related.
A few here and there but the dude was on-script almost the whole game.

Whats that test called where two female characters are talking and it passes if it isnt about a guy?
We should do that with Chief, but its where hes not talking about the mission, his next steps, current combat situations, or the tactical standing of his allies.

[empty bloom]

Bechdel test.

[last anchor]

Thank you

I can think of maybe one sentence, in 3 where hes talking to Cortana...and then he immiedetly asks her if she has 04s Index annnddd we're back to the mission.

He passes it in 4 several times.

Theres that entire section at the end where he talks with Lasky

[empty bloom]

I wouldn't count that one, entirely. Because he's talking about it in the context of his greater mission as a soldier.

Which is, IMO, more clumsy than it seemed the first time I heard it.

[last anchor]

It does seem a little bit awkward. But at least they TRIED

[empty bloom]

I kinda find it funny that the tone and demeanor of Lasky implies that he's more just baffled than anything else.

Kind of like

"Wait... Does he not know the difference? The hell?"

[prisma sierra]

Then in infinite he becomes Socrates

[wispy pewter]

"We all fail. We all make mistakes. It's what makes us human"

[stoic hamlet]

Technically he took that from Thel.

[unborn patrol]

do we know what happened to del rio after he was taken off command?

which Im really glad for that guy was a

[wispy pewter]

butthead

[carmine sleet]

He went into politics

Had a brief appearance in Hunt the Truth where he was vocally against Master Chief

[wispy pewter]

talk about ungrateful. Chief saved humanity so many times

[unborn patrol]

doesnt surprise me

guys ego couldve powered the whole ship

[orchid kettle]

"It's what makes us Sangheili."

"...What?"

[wispy pewter]

Lmao anyway. I am at the point in Rubicon where griffin and a team of spartans are going to kill Escharum... well we know how that ended up... Master Chief however on his own defeated the Harbinger, the Spartan Killer and Escharum

at this point just clone 117

[carmine sleet]

Cloning ain't exactly developed tech in Halo, since full body clones die quickly

Not to mention that Chief is known for being lucky, can't clone luck

[unborn patrol]

crazy that luck is a metric in halo

for such a pragmatic world

[empty bloom]

You can be grateful for someone's actions but absolutely loathe them from a personal and professional level.

If Chief caused you to lose your job despite you literally legally following protocol after you got undercut by your subordinates, you'd be pretty pissed too.

(They literally had to retcon it so Del Rio was in the wrong-he wasn't originally)

[orchid kettle]

Im sure with post-war UNSC tech you could eventually get a full clone that's more or less fine

[empty bloom]

I always took it as flash cloning being the actual issue, not cloning itself.

Flash cloning organs? Works fine. Flash cloning a whole 1:1 copy? Breaks down.

Though you'd think that there'd be a medical journal somewhere breaking down flash cloning degradation symptoms.

[orchid kettle]

Some fans argue that you could in theory just "clone" somebody without the flash

Just grow a John Jr from a lil zygote and wait

Sure itd be years before the clone was ready for anything, but it probably wouldn't suffer the averse effects

[empty bloom]

Y'know, that could hypothetically make Chiron retroactive canon.

As in, the clones.

Because in 2552, you'd have 25+ year old II clones, well past aug age.

And improved procedures from the III program.

I could totally see ONI doing that. Their own version of 40K's Afriel Strain.

[carmine sleet]

Could maybe be a version of the S-II Class 2. Would be a twist if they were all cloned from class one

[wispy pewter]

John 711

[wind orbit]

any idea why did we start fighting the elites again after halo 3 in halo 4

[stoic hamlet]

Species aren’t a monolith.

[tropic forge]

The short version? The elites weren't one big homogeneous group even during Halo 3 and fractures after that meant that there were groups that wanted to exterminate humans again AND allied groups like the Swords of Sanghelios. Halo 4 we fight the former.

[stoic hamlet]

Even before Halo 3’s release (via Ghosts of Onyx) there were Sangheili still planning to continue their war against humanity during the great schism.

[tropic forge]

The fractures were so intense that there were dozens or hundreds of warlords all claiming to rule the Covenant after the war which means that there were probably Elite led factions that were allies, enemies, neutral, and everything in between.

[stoic hamlet]

^^^^^

[wind orbit]

yeah as i didnt read the books i thought that some elites didnt want to stop the war with the humans

[tropic forge]

They'd have the genetics, but they'd probably be missing everything else the Spartan-IIs were selected for. Maybe ONI could control for that and ensure they had the psychology or intelligence parts but I could also see it blowing up in their face pretty dramatically.

[ruby canopy]

I don't think it would work. Clones wouldn't have the same personality

Personality is part of the criteria of why IIs were selected

[carmine sleet]

There's even some within the SOS who would like to continue fighting humanity but don't due to respect for Thel or because they see an alliance with Vadam Keep as more beneficial to their own clans

[empty bloom]

I mean, you could directly curate their growth, and Halsey wouldn't be the selecting member anymore.

Halsey was off the project before a Cat 2 could be made, and whoever replaced her likely wouldn't be so picky.

[orchid kettle]

I always assumed the "personality" criteria just meant like, whether the kid was a wuss or not

Because Halsey needed trained killers and all that

[carmine sleet]

Even the most fearful child could be trained to kill

Not that I'm advocating for that, because that's a terrible thing for a child to do but still

[empty bloom]

Worst comes to worse, you can start poking sharp things into empathy centers.

(Do not do this)

[carmine sleet]

Or their flesh (Also do not do this)

[tropic forge]

Levels of aggression and emotional resilience were both specifically mentioned as something the Spartan-IIs were selected for.

[empty bloom]

I still find it absolutely disgusting that Halsey explicitly refers to the death of innocence in her texts regarding the IIs.

Just, ugh. Gross.

[carmine sleet]

T'is one of many reasons why nobody should glorify her

[empty bloom]

Is the decepticon snake in the room

[last anchor]

Interesting. I shall expand upon this I think

Also yes, Halsey is not a good person.
She is a genius, yes, but in no way shape or form should you let her near anything with a pulse.
And probably anything without a pulse.

I want to say shes a sociopath but I dont really think that fits...theres something else wrong with her.

[empty bloom]

Don't forget the in-universe bad luck

(Personally I always thought it was because the original person they were cloning from was actually the lucky one, and the clones are just normal in a world where everything kills as easy as it breathes)

[last anchor]

Thats what I figured was the case too

Same with the Lamentors.

[ruby canopy]

You could, but there are just so many tiny factors that go into making someone who they are that it seems almost impossible to replicate who someone is to a tee. If life didnt pan out for them exactly the way it did they wouldn't be who they are. And who they are exactly is what the unsc most likely needed

[empty bloom]

If anything has been established about ONI, it's that this is not something they'd balk at.

[ruby canopy]

And to give credit to Halsey. She could only select 75 candidates, so it was best to be picky to pick the perfect ones

[ruby canopy]

I definitely wouldn't put it pass them to try it. I just don't think the results will be what they would hope for

[obsidian thistle]

Oh hey in a fun lore adjacent note

Recently got this fully recorded! May interested some fans!

I'm just suprised Dalton made a soft-appearance. Nice to see they were still on Infinity circa 2559.

https://www.halopedia.org/Halo_5:_Guardians_E3_Hololens_Experience

[empty bloom]

Oh no. When did Halopedia start getting autoplaying audio ads?

[obsidian thistle]

Report the issue to me in great detail. I'll make sure stuff is dealt with

(IE thats not meant to happen)

Granted I'd rather discuss the content of the article I linked here

[empty bloom]

Crap, I had already closed out of the tab. It was some bigger guy with short cut hair advertising some magic shows or something? Purple, it was 100% purple and a video.

[obsidian thistle]

Alas back to business issue is being resolved.

[empty bloom]

I didn't even know they did this tbh

But the set is neat

[obsidian thistle]

Hololens!

They made the set, made stuff for HoloLens to work with said set

Then proceeded to have it work together

Its actually pretty rad

I'm just glad to give more Palmer for folks to enjoy! 😄

[sinful silo]

Oh my gawd what I'd had given to be part of this experience 🥹

[prisma oasis]

Does anyone think that Brutes that relocated from Teash to some new planets happens to have many female members among them? For me, I imagine that to be the case because the Brutes need to be able to reproduce to make more Brutes.

[prisma sierra]

Do elites lay eggs or what

I don't know if Brutes do it too

[stoic hamlet]

Yes.

[stoic hamlet]

Not that we know of.

[prisma sierra]

Yes but she did design the most technological advanced stuff the UNSC has. Like the Mjolnir and the forerunner stuff on the infinity

[prisma sierra]

Huh they are not mammals. That's interesting

[marble lion]

I don't think Brutes lay eggs.

[prisma sierra]

Humans really are the weakest species in the Halo universe. I think even the Unggoy have superior strength

[stoic hamlet]

Kig-Yar are less durable/are weaker, but have claws and Better base reaction times and stuff.

[empty bloom]

Halsey didn't get involved with the Infinity.

Additionally she had full teams working with her for the other projects.

Personally, I hate how she got shoehorned into so many tech developments. It cheapens the universe.

Also, 'she did X or Y' isn't an endorsement of goodness.

[prisma sierra]

Rip Miranda Keyes. Halsey had an actual daughter

[prisma oasis]

Brutes most likely give birth in the same way humans do.

[wispy pewter]

The games are so chill then there are the books with gore and war crimes....

[carmine sleet]

Chief himself is a walking war crime

Given he's a child soldier

Plus Reach falling was full of war crimes since the Covenant were actively killing civilians and non-combatants

[vernal marlin]

The entire war was full of war crimes, on both sides.

The Covenant glassed entire world's and, as mentioned, targeted civilians on Reach... and most other planets they burned.

The UNSC also killed Covenant non-combatants. On Zhoist, on Glyke.

Plus, ONI literally trained child soldiers to go on high-risk missions to trade lives for time.

[carmine sleet]

Not saying it wasn't full of war crimes on both sides, just pointing out to Jean that we do see war crimes in the games

[vernal marlin]

Very true.

Halo 2, the Brutes were prepared to kill prisoners of war (Johnson, Stacker etc on The Great Jouney)

[carmine sleet]

Not just prepared to kill, prepared to eat them too

[wispy pewter]

Banished literally doing crap like torture and starving pows and defiling their bodies. I really think they deserved Doisac's destruction

but you don't see that in the games only a red energy torture chamber but definitely no mangled corpses (I think)

[carmine sleet]

The Banished doing terrible things doesn't mean that the entire Brute species should be condemned

And the torture device we see in Infinite quite literally is used to tear prisoners apart using gravity, that's a really bad way to go

[empty bloom]

One species' war crime is another's way of life.

[orchid kettle]

Boi I sure am glad humans have never done that before!

[empty bloom]

Brutes likely don't see anything that was listed as a war crime considering how frequently they wear body parts or armor from dead foes.

[sonic lagoon]

How wide is the mouth of the gravemind?

Or at least the neck of him.

[carmine sleet]

Why do you want to know?

Because that's an oddly specific question to ask

[sonic lagoon]

Scaling. To see how big he is compared to other big monsters in other games. To see how he sizes up, like a versus type scenario.

Like if he were to fight the worm from gears of war.

[unique rune]

There's never been any official stats on that but we know how tall John is in armor so have fun scaling by pixel I guess
https://www.halopedia.org/images/4/49/HTMCC-H2A_AMonumentToAllYourSins.png

[sonic lagoon]

Cool thanks. Would he be wider than a scorpion? Generalkidd showed his size and then neck looks no wider than a scorpion, but it is hard to tell.

[unborn patrol]

is the term war crime even a thing in the 2500s? Im sure the aliens never signed an agreement on whats a war crime

other than maybe amongst humans

[empty bloom]

Not really, no.

I mean, the UNSC has canonically attempted to use nerve gas on the flood and Covenant so

(There's nerve gas canister boxes in halo 2)

[unborn patrol]

when the war is interspecies and spans the universe its kind of useless to try and have some agreement on what not to do Id think

[empty bloom]

I mean, the causus belli on the Covenant side was literally 'because our religion said so'

Not much can be gained from playing 'fair'.

The purpose of most IRL War crimes laws is to ensure undue suffering occurs to an absolute minimum, regardless of the effectiveness of the prosecution of these laws.

So against the Covenant, I imagine the majority was 'no holds barred', but the stuff we see wasn't for one reason or another.

Like right off the bat we got the UNSC going for;

-Napalm
-Cryonic chemical warfare
-Neurotoxins
-Radiologicals
-Child soldiers
-Poisons
-Biologicals
-Torture
-Medical experimentation

[prisma oasis]

Doisac didn’t deserve to be destroyed just because many Brutes did bad things. Do you think Sharks should go extinct just because some people in the world were eaten alive by them?

[empty bloom]

Doisac didn't deserve to be destroyed, but sharks kill humans out of confusion, not societally structured malice.

[prisma oasis]

Agreed

[empty bloom]

Brutes kill everything out of societal level brutality and malice. They kill you because you are weaker, they eat your limbs while you scream because you are weaker.

[prisma oasis]

I did however, wanted to make a point that collective blame or punishment is no way to go.

By the way, I have no doubt that Brute survivors from Doisac’s Teash, which are the Brutes that fled to different planets for new homes, do consist of female members of the species because those are needed for reproduction to make more Brutes.

[empty bloom]

We don't need to talk about that.

[unique rune]

Kind of a weird thing to fixate on but okay

[empty bloom]

People need to touch grass more tbh

[carmine sleet]

Agreed on that touching grass part

Also of all the animals on Earth to bring up, sharks aren't exactly the ones killing that many humans, humans are the ones killing the most humans per year

[last anchor]

Alongside cows, hippos, and lightning strikes.

[empty bloom]

And Trenchbirds.

[sonic lagoon]

One things that does seem odd is to say skitterers are 71.5 feet long on Halopedia, when it is only a fraction of the size of a scorpion.

Is it a legal variant from the books or is the in-game model just really small compared to canon?

[last anchor]

I assume there's some in-game weirdness going on but also presuambly someone wrote the size down.
71 feet would put it close to the size of a Scarap

Scarab

They are not the size of a Scarab

[unique rune]

Halopedia says it's from the '22 encyclopedia. I would assume it's probably a typo in the book.

Misplaced the decimal or something.

[prisma sierra]

Collective punishment is wrong but Halo is doing a good job and making us feel absolutely nothing but anger at Brutes as a species. Atleast with the Elites you have dudes like Arbiter.
I already feel bad for the humans on Zeta Halo. And I can agree with Browning that Banished Humans are the worse

[storm lodge]

just finished reading Glasslands, and I have no idea if I should be seeing Halsey as an evil manipulative nerd or a technological prodigy and/or a god, wanted to ask yalls opinion about her

[prisma sierra]

What did she see in Keyes lol

[prisma sierra]

Evil scientist

[storm lodge]

fr actually

[prisma sierra]

I mean she did whatever for the UNSC and her creation saved humanity.... Only for ONI to try and kill her. But war crimes are war crimes

[storm lodge]

fair

[prisma sierra]

It's like does the Manhattan Project justify the means? Killing thousands of civilians so you can end the war quicker

[storm lodge]

first time i played halo ce as a child i kept wondering why we keep rescuing this old man and several years later i read the Fall of Reach and was like "..oh"

"this guy's a god at ship stuff"

[storm lodge]

havent reached the manhattan project yet but that sounds

concerning

to say the least

[prisma sierra]

No that's a real life example

Comparing to Halsey's invention

[storm lodge]

oh okay

makes sense

is there a book for halo 5s story

aint got a xbox or even a controller for cloud play

[unique rune]

Halo is doing a good job and making us feel absolutely nothing but anger at Brutes as a species.
If you have the emotional maturity of like, a 12 year old, maybe.

I'm not saying the Jiralhanae are right for doing the things they have, but they're not just doing all this for no reason. They've historically been stepped on by everyone and their society has never really been given a chance to mature past a "might makes right" mentality.

[prisma sierra]

There's a book with Spartan Vale and Arbiter

[unique rune]

And it's not like we haven't had Jiralhanae that aren't sympathetic to some extent and trying to make that sort of progress, though they've been a bit limited in representation. Like Lydus.

[storm lodge]

nice will read that one soon after finishing the ghosts of onyx trilogy

also the fact that before maturing all jiralhanae do not have the suffix "us" sounds funny as hell

at one point tartarus was just tartar

[stoic hamlet]

I’d say even Maccabeus counts.

Still my favourite Jiralhanae.

[empty bloom]

All three, much to my chagrin.

[wispy pewter]

Glibnub better be a boss in Halo 7

[empty bloom]

Not for 5 specifically. There is a few books that explain Vale and Buck, and there's a comic to explain Tanaka, and Locke is mostly explained in a show.

[orchid kettle]

Id say its more like Vale got to make a cameo in Luther Mann's debut novel

[versed helm]

youre welcome and not 🙂

https://tenor.com/view/obama-yes-we-can-gif-9622655196531957137

[last anchor]

What exactly is this supposed to be

[empty bloom]

Uhhh

Something dumb apparently?

[last anchor]

Ah as usual then

[unique rune]

It's a slideshow of... Halo 2 Anniversary Arbiter mission cutscenes with some kind of AI motion effect applied...?

[prisma sierra]

So the Unggoy destroyed the embassy and teamed up with Cortana and make up the bulk of the Banished army. What did humans ever do to them? They should be Nova bombed

[unique rune]

Do you think they make up most of the Banished's numbers by choice...?

And they demolished the human embassy as part of the Created because the Created were the only ones that could substantially advance them beyond being subjugated by everyone else. Balaho is so terrible to live on that they'd be foolish to not take the opportunity. Committing an act of genocide against the Unggoy for something like that is... morally questionable, at the very least?

[empty bloom]

Why do people struggle so hard to realize that a species is not made up of people who think exactly the same?

[versed helm]

No its my ai music

Im the cutting edge mf in the AI game with scores sir I dont just do Halo but I thought this was beautiful and it reminded me of the arbiter

[unique rune]

oh

ew

[empty bloom]

Disgusting.

[versed helm]

🙂

Its okay ill be making music for your favorite movies soon

[empty bloom]

It's vile that even musicians have their livelihood to fear.

[versed helm]

nah im a producer of 10 years

idgaf about them

they can suck it

gatekeepers

weird hollywood mfs

time is near where we can make our own games

and movies

down with the weirdos

mastercheeks be gone

[empty bloom]

I cannot say what I want to say politely, so I'm just going to block you and report your channel if it ever appears in my feed.

[versed helm]

ok

[unique rune]

Any movie that uses AI for a score is absolutely not going to be anywhere on my list of favorites lmao

[ruby canopy]

I welcome our ai overlords (trying to avoid the wrath of rokos basilisk)

[versed helm]

if you load up the ai

and sit there

you wont be able to do it

🙂

because you suck

and it sucks to suck

🤧

[empty bloom]

Honestly, that's enough for me to blacklist a studio forever.

[versed helm]

jelly

jelly that you cant do it

O-o

🙂

[unique rune]

imagine being jealous of a talentless hack who needs to rely on a computer to steal other people's work to make anything
couldn't be me

[empty bloom]

Is the AI shill still trying to respond to me or are they just spouting nonsense?

[versed helm]

nah

I generated that for a month

idiot

piece by piece

part by part

think again

thousands of times

go try idiot

[ruby canopy]

I do think ai stuff will be unavoidable in the future. It'll be kind of like price shaving

[versed helm]

🙂

[unique rune]

@fair hazel hey can you help deal with this guy

[empty bloom]

Looks like both considering how many messages are popping up.

[versed helm]

since its "skilless"

and I can make this music with fl studio too but not this organic

so I dont wanna hear it

[prisma sierra]

I wonder if halo smart AIs could create art

Probably

[empty bloom]

Considering they are actually sentient and have creativity, absolutely.

[versed helm]

incorrect

[empty bloom]

Instead of being parasites fed on the sweat of hard-working artists.

[versed helm]

they need inputs to do something

and its a lottery

thats all it is

now go play

I want to see more people making halo music

idgaf

I want to have more music

not just from me

I already proved myself when I put together that loki song

[empty bloom]

Yeah, that's usually the trend. I can't imagine being jealous of someone so spineless that they refuse to learn a talent, but apparently the uncreative sort love the low-skill low-effort parasitic facsimile of talent.

[wispy pewter]

have you tried making music thats not AI

[versed helm]

but you havent done it yet

if its what you say @empty bloom

because if you could

you would be doing it

[fair hazel]

Enough

[unique rune]

cope

[versed helm]

and you keep his comment

[empty bloom]

Ooooo, and muted.

So sad.

[fair hazel]

He left

[unique rune]

and nothing of value was lost

[fair hazel]

Let's get back to lore

[ruby canopy]

Had a friend use an ai tool to make a blues song about Gordon freeman. Not for money, just for laughs and it's actually scary good lol

Ah sorry

[wispy pewter]

this is why the created happened

[fair hazel]

I want to read the new sections added to the meridian books 😦

[empty bloom]

Someone told me what the Tanaka scene was. I was mildly annoyed by how little it was.

[unique rune]

I'm still a bit sad the proposed third Meridian book is still probably never getting released.

[wispy pewter]

I started alpha nine and it's in first person...

[unique rune]

I also really hate that the subseries is called Battle Born because I always end up thinking of Battleborn instead which makes me start question if that game is supposed to have an E at the end of its name or not.

[empty bloom]

It also-also annoys the bejeezus out of me that it's just included in some reprint.

[last anchor]

That was me hi.
And yes it was

The Sloane one was better

[stoic hamlet]

I thought the innie history was the best.

[obsidian thistle]

Few know the book actually retconned the time stuff happened also aha!

October 25 2558
•Old media - Guardian wakes "aroun" 0833 hours.
•New media - Osiris Arrive at 1100 hours. Making the old time impossible

Is a shame not gonna lie, would have been nice to have gotten a "time" between Osiris arriving and the Guardian waking

[obsidian thistle]

I actually liked the Frontier Enducation one

That one has some superb world building

Also fun fact

Those three stories have us fixing spellings on Halopedia due to us not having... well subtitles for a buncha stuff in Halo 5 and related media

A thing Halo Infinite certainly did better at

[bronze prawn]

so, how humanity in 2500 years never find the portal to the ark under voi

also, is it me or as more media comes out theyre more and more ways to reach the ark as the plot requires ...

[prisma sierra]

Well I hope because someone needs to get the SoF out of there

SoF should go to Zeta Halo next

[unique rune]

please no

[unique rune]

There's a bit of lore somewhere that suggests ONI knew there was something under Voi IIRC, but they never really investigated it and kept that info hush-hush.

Or rather:

At some point after the dawn of the 24th century, the UNSC's Office of Naval Intelligence discovered a small section of the portal structure located below the metropolis of New Mombasa, and constructed a major facility known as the ONI Alpha Site in the city in order to conduct covert research on the artifact.

[prisma sierra]

Red Team reunites with Chief

[unique rune]

no

[prisma sierra]

okay

[rapid river]

I do unironically think the Spirit of Fire and the Banished forces at the Ark would work much better being part of the Orion Arm setting rather than being extremely isolated well beyond the modern galaxy.

Really, there's much more interesting potential to explore by wrapping the Ark conflict one way or another and have these characters in the galaxy interacting with other parts of the setting.

Take Cutter and his family. What happened to them? What's his reaction to his bastard (in both sense of the word) son being a terrorist? What are Dhas Bhasvod'd plans with Cloister and the remaining San'Shyuum? Let's see the rivalry between Let 'Volir and Arkad Nar 'Kalul.

There's more interesting things to explore than a war of attrition that won't really go anywhere.

[empty bloom]

The one thing I wouldn't mind seeing is seeing Red Team get shored up by an attache of Spartan IVs or something. It'd be an interesting dynamic not really seen before.

[prisma sierra]

Yeah they should really wrap up the Ark thing. But the SoF is millions of miles away from any Spartan IV. Or UNSC

[storm lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/antman-what-the-hell-happened-here-avengers-gif-18240147

why does it not embed 😭

[hoary galleon]

So, basically, is it possible to become fluent in Sangheili? Or any other language speaked by the covenant?

[obsidian thistle]

In theory you can learn Silver Timeline Sangheili

And if you can somehow crack it

Reach Sangheili

[pallid knoll]

CE Sangheili is just talking backwards

[tribal trench]

is post-bungie sangheili not also a developed language?

[obsidian thistle]

Halo 4/5 may be. But its hard to say if its actually developed beyond scripted dialogue

[prisma sierra]

Wort wort wort

[sonic lagoon]

Which units have protection against biological, chemical, and radiological weapons?

[prisma sierra]

Spartans

[sonic lagoon]

All of them?

[unique rune]

Pretty much any version of MJOLNIR provides a limited amount of CBRN protection but there's specialized variants and attachments for a reason.

[prisma sierra]

Yeah man Gen 2 Mjolnir can survive in outer space for months. You bet it will survive anything radioactive, biological and chemical

[unique rune]

I wouldn't go that far. Most versions will probably have pretty standard, baseline components for things like air filters, but particularly intense CBRN hazards would necessitate something like a CBRN helmet attachment or just using an OSTEO suit.

[wispy pewter]

when you think about it, CBRN is completely unnessesary when you an just put all that in the standard Mjolnir

[unique rune]

Except it's also not necessary for every single MJOLNIR type to have high-grade CBRN equipment.

[wispy pewter]

I mean the gen 2 and 3 already protexts you from all kidns of dangers

[unique rune]

I mean, yeah, fully sealed powered assault armor will do that. There's baseline standards that the vast majority of MJOLNIR variants will meet.

But most Spartans aren't going to be heading into situations where extra CBRN protection is necessary.
Making CBRN standards for MJOLNIR top-tier is just entirely unnecessary and likely impractical.

[empty bloom]

Hazmat and Hazop are basically outright stating even MJOLNIR has CBRN limits.

[stoic hamlet]

There’s only so much you can do after all with supplemental attachments.

[fair hazel]

I like OSTEO

[empty bloom]

There's some people I know who get really, really mad at me, like, staggeringly mad at me, for understanding that there's like a 99.9% chance half the reason it's so poofy is that it's absolutely inundated with redundant soft layers.

It is baffling.

... But yes, I too like Osteo.

[last anchor]

I mean, its an engineering/repair/clean suit

Why wouldnt it have multiple layers? Especially if they're expendable like the bits on the weapon models from the same season.

Like the AR one that mentions you can literally rip the furniature off and BURN IT.

Some of its probably overpressure too so if it gets punctured everything goes OUT rather than in

[empty bloom]

The way I see it is that it's basically a bulkier version of Rakshasa-a light 'strength' suit with light armor, built into a combat-grade heavy hazmat suit.

Instead of a soft onesie, it's a massive, bulky assembly with redundant layers, attachment hardpoints, and quick-removal soft layer.

[last anchor]

Probably fully modular as well so you can add or remove layers for different enviroments, hazards and requirements.

Ex if your going to be going into a wrecked voidcraft you can have a harder outer layer with flexible stuff on top of it, like a space suit.
If you're delving into a mining facility you might want more impact resistant softer layers

[empty bloom]

Does make me find it odd that there isn't a GEN3 meant exclusively for EVA.

[wispy pewter]

it removes leg armor

[empty bloom]

What does?

[wispy pewter]

osteo

[last anchor]

I assume Mercury or one of the other bowl-helmet ones is intended to fill that roll.
I think by this point, with integrted thrusters and balance control systems we might be at the point where we dont quite need a full EVA kit, merely a helmet for it.

[empty bloom]

It isn't the only armor on the lineup with presumably unarmored legs in its stock configuration. Rakshasa's armor plates aren't stock to the armor.

That said, Osteo likely has hard plates under the cloth. It's certainly bulky enough to fit some.

[empty bloom]

Mercury's not really a known armor.

Like, yeah, the UNSC has the specs for it, but it's Created-designed and the purpose isn't known.

[last anchor]

So many freaking armor sets with little blurbs they could totally expand but they dont...
(Mumble grumble wheres my Essential Guide to Arms and Armor 343)

[wispy pewter]

it just looks so ugly

[empty bloom]

Eh. It's not Mark IV so I'll give it a pass.

[wispy pewter]

like I understand a CBRM suit for normal humans but Gen 3 Mjolnir can survive ina vacuum it can take anything a CBRM suit can

[empty bloom]

Seeeee, you kinda just exposed a flaw in your thinking.

And it's one of the really fun and annoying things people just cannot seem to ever understand about OSTEO and HAZOP style armors.

"Why wear this when GEN3 can do it?"

Well, simple answer, GEN3 don't do it as good, son.

That dog don't hunt. Osteo does.

[wispy pewter]

😵‍💫

[empty bloom]

GEN3's good general purpose combat armor and can survive CBRN, sure, but it's not designed to deal with CBRN threats specifically in mind day-to-day. Osteo is.

[wispy pewter]

imagine a fireteam of hazmat spartans fighting it's so goofy

[empty bloom]

Not really.

The Mark VII wearers next to them are gonna be worried about having kids growing extra toes and webbed fingers due to heavy radiation after a few minutes while the Osteo guys could fight next to the same source for hours and not really care. That's the difference.

[wispy pewter]

Okay I see now

the Rakshasa's armor core seems to lack the exo suit spartans wear inside? it looks like kevlar is what they are wearing under

[empty bloom]

They have a full techsuit underneat. You can see the techsuit at the ankles.

[manic osprey]

they have a techsuit; I think the kevlar you mentioned is an additional layer of soft armor

at least that's what I thought it was; I always got the impression that Rakshasa was less armored than say, Mark VII. the additional use of kevlar is likely to provide additional protection against shrapnel & the like

and it would make sense to be kevlar; several pieces of Rakshasa armor in game either state that they are salvaged, cheap, or designed to make use of as little strategic materials as possible (see: AAP/KARD PLATE and Prozy Logistics for chest, SAP/HVISTLA Plating for shoulders)

kevlar or similar ballistic protection that's cheaper/easier to produce rather than relying on titanium (which is the primary metal used in Mjolnir armor, including the techsuit) as an additional layer of protection makes sense for armor that's supposed to be cheap and easy to repair in the field

your kevlar shirt gets torn up? sew on a new sleeve, take one from that Insurrectionist you just killed, etc

[empty bloom]

The base techsuit of MJOLNIR is already very well-armored.

In the case of Rakshasa, it's much like GEN2, and likely borrowed the most significant things that put GEN2 ahead of GEN1 in terms of modularity (Incorporation of critical components into the techsuit layer rather than the hardplate layer)

[manic osprey]

Yeah, it's a titanium nanocomposite science fiction nonsense armor

[empty bloom]

Worth noting the only parts of Rakashasa visibly hard-mounted to the armor is the helmet and gloves, and even the latter is iffy.

[manic osprey]

boots too

You can see the hemline for what we've called kevlar undersuit at the ankles

[empty bloom]

Nope, mounted with straps.

[empty bloom]

yes, I said that

[manic osprey]

huh

now mind you I've got the steel/red color job on rakshasa in game so it's all gray but i enver noted that before

[empty bloom]

For like 99% of coatings, the straps are the same color as the techsuit.

Yeah, I had to wear Mystic Meringue to make it really obvious.

[manic osprey]

just goes to sell the "we're repairing these ourselves out in the field with nothin' but spit and duct tape" vibe I guess

[empty bloom]

So I figure Rakshasa is, at the end of the day, an extra-ruggedized GEN2 style suit festooned with stealth gear and loaded with redundant nanite repair systems.

[manic osprey]

yeah

although I gotta wonder how much overlap there would be between Rakshasa and Mirage II

obviously Mirage is discount Mjolnir but both Rakshasa and Mirage seem to be built on simplicity and stealth oriented

maybe Mirage II would come with more advanced active camouflage systems, in a natural evolution of SPI?

or Rakshasa was designed more clearly in mind with a deep infiltration/LRRP type role where you wouldn't have access to the necessary equipment needed for detailed maintanence of active camouflage systems?

[empty bloom]

Rakshasa is basically a highly advanced hyperspecialized long-term suit meant for months to years in the field, built around self-sufficiency and extreme modularity.

Mirage IIC is a lower-tech MJOLNIR system that has scalable musculature (Hypothetically, at least) and seems to focus on shields over cloaking compared to what Mirage was originally known for.

There's some overlap here, but Rakshasa's intended end user is someone like solid snake or something, while Mirage's end user is intended to be more typical special forces.

[manic osprey]

as stated, really wishin' 343 expanded some of the lore blurbs...

[manic osprey]

seems to focus on shields over cloaking compared to what Mirage was originally known for.
sad. half the fun of SPI was the fact that SPI Mark II's photoreactive panels were pushin' close to active camo

[empty bloom]

They were better, but SPI is SPI and Mirage is Mirage.

It's a weird situation.

[orchid kettle]

The presence of a shielding unit item you can lock for the Mirage core has made some people question if the armor even has shielding natively

Stuff like this has always bugged me when it comes to the "cost" of all these super suits

[empty bloom]

I think peak sci fi is realizing that trying to establish an in-universe economy is a fool's goal.

[manic osprey]

especially when the original Mark IV was said to cost the same as a frigate

[orchid kettle]

It just kinda bugs me because surely the expensive part of MJOLNIR isnt the actual armor part that's made of Titanium, which is apparently a material the UNSC has endless supplies of

[manic osprey]

which the massive up-scaling of the Spartan program with IV (in both the sense of Spartan IV and Halo 4) always made me scratch my head

you've suddenly got a few thousand of these guys? all wearing these suits of armor that is prohibitively cost expensive on a good day? while your economy is probably in shambles as a result of just finishing a intragalactic war?

[orchid kettle]

Like, surely a "cost efficient" suit of MJOLNIR would just be Mark IV

[manic osprey]

it's probably the mini-fusion reactor