#lore-and-universe

1 messages · Page 66 of 1

empty bloom
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Plate armorglass (that we know is at least a partially digitized surface) with a flexible display layer backing and covering it would make more sense than the entire plate of armorglass sliding into somewhere.

last anchor
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Im pretty sure Bungie wanted it to be just a screen you could see through because they wanted to have a "face" on Chief.
Hence the giant gold visor and brim on MK V

As time has moved on and cooler and better ideas have come along, the tech has kept up.

Such as the sudden introduction of medical nanites

empty bloom
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It was how people theorized Chief's armor repaired itself, with the deep scratches on the chest being just exceptionally deep and thus long-lasting damage.

unborn patrol
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if the visor is damaged in a way where its difficult to see through, having it be retractable makes perfect sense. having this screen behind the visor is a bit odd because whats the point of the visor in the first place then. just a hole in the helmet to mess up. helmets like the locus should be superior to anything with a visor then, since it has no weak points and works exactly the same way

empty bloom
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If it's damaged, you already can't retract it.

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Same reason you don't retract a broken car window.

last anchor
empty bloom
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I know what you said got deleted for a naughty word and it involved sunglasses.

last anchor
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Also, Im fairly certain Spartans dont even need to see through the visor anymore at this point, they can like...plug into their MJLONIR and use the neural interface to see.

unborn patrol
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yeah idk why it got deleted

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didnt write anything bad on purpose

empty bloom
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But it stands-you remove the lens and replace it.

last anchor
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Someone hurry up and give them Preysight like 40k

empty bloom
unborn patrol
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but I imagine for the lense to be hardy, removing it from the helmet would require you to probably take off the helmet. that isnt an option if its damaged mid fight

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if youve ever broken your glasses or sunglasses you know its difficult to have them on you

empty bloom
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And it being retractible when damaged isn't an option for similar reasons.

unborn patrol
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why not

last anchor
unborn patrol
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if the thing is damaged in a way where it just has a hole in it or its shattered I dont see why it couldnt retract

empty bloom
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Because if it's broken significantly, it can't go back into the helmet. If it's damaged minorly, attempting to store it in the helmet can damage the retraction systems and leave you worse off.

last anchor
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Nothing like seeing a Spartan turn the corner and they scream at you so loud you fall over

unborn patrol
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gyat

empty bloom
last anchor
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Preysight is first seen being used by the Night Lords. Take that as you will.

empty bloom
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Because Spartans also have combat-focused acoustic hailers now too

last anchor
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A couple different ones too yes?

empty bloom
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There's like four in Infinite yeah

last anchor
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Remind me to make a fit thats nothing but hailers.

empty bloom
last anchor
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Also on broken visors; remember what happened to Chief when he fought the Didact.

empty bloom
unborn patrol
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I dont really know but I dont care to argue about some hypothetical helmet more than this 💀

empty bloom
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That's a shame, I love talking about it.

unborn patrol
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can tell

empty bloom
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Encourages lateral thinking.

last anchor
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I need that helmet.

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That looks sick as hell. I dont even ride a motorcyle but I need it

empty bloom
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Like, say you're in a CBRN compromised environment and your visor is broken or cracked by extensive damage and you need to swap it out now. Like, now, now. It's not a blister agent but if you breathe you will likely suffer a painful death.

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If it's retractable, it doesn't help you whatsoever. But if it's plug-and-play, so to speak, you just pop out the old visor and slap in the new one.

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This also helps depot maintenance and quick fixes.

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Additionally, retracting your visor would require more advanced and complex CBRN sealing than a nonretractable but removeable visor or a hinge.

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And would have more opportunities to fail than either of the other two options.

royal tartan
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Cook trenchbird

empty bloom
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... And I am now once again infuriated by my brain's inability to understand spacial math but working knowledge of engineering faults.

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But yeah, science fiction authors and readers don't tend to strongly assosciate rule of cool with failiure points, which always made the rule of cool a really stupid rule in my eyes.

last anchor
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Whenever I write my stuff I always put failure points in.
Mostly so when someone starts probing my material, they realize theres no obvious ones and they're gonna have to figure out a more clever way to deal with the wall of metal they're facing.

Spoiler; MOST CANT

empty bloom
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Sure, a folding visor 'sounds' cooler (I think it sounds stupid) and more advanced, but failiures tend to occur with unnecessary complexity.

last anchor
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And this is why transforming weapons (looking at you, RWBY) are stupid

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Can you say "astronomical stoppage rate"

empty bloom
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Yeeeeeep.

fair hazel
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I saw talking about retracting and im like... retract where..?

empty bloom
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But yeah that too

fair hazel
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It doesn't even make sense on a lot of helmets

fair hazel
unborn patrol
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they really really messed up some of the proportions on the infinite helmets

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some of them are so tight idk how theres a head in there

empty bloom
unborn patrol
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Surprising

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But it bothers me more when its super obvious and the helmets design suffers from it

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The reach helmets have great proportions

empty bloom
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Scout was the one that failed the test btw

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Locke's head popped through the top.

unborn patrol
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oh yeah

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I could imagine

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it is pretty slim that way

wanton raptor
fair hazel
empty bloom
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Second place was Rakshasa btw

fair hazel
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If the helmets were simply sized up a bit, would that generally be fine?

empty bloom
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Ehhhhhh?

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Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

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Like, AKIS needs to be scaled up by about... 8-12%.

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Squire by... I'd say 15% but I never verified that because it wasn't available in Blender at the time.

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Halo 5 helmets are also usually not badly proportioned, though Halo 4 helmets very much are.

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4 helmets are usually about 3-4 sizes too small, 5 helmets usually are fine sizewise but are weirdly slotted into the head region.

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A very, very small handful of 5's helmets are actually super messed up in terms of shape ruining their viability, not size.

obsidian thistle
empty bloom
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I mean, considering what it was made for, I actually wouldn't be surprised if that was legitimately the case.

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"The AKIS II-GRD was built for superhuman stalkers, killers, and assassins. After some detuning and removal of still-classified subsystems it serves the needs of Spartans as well."

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With implications being that the old school AKIS was made for the same job.

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Cooooonsidering ONI was working with augmenting nonSpartans...

stoic hamlet
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AKIS[GEN1] was for pilots, IIRC.

(It also just looks nicer, IMO. Neat sort of faux Mark VI silhouette.

empty bloom
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You might be thinking of Mariner?

stoic hamlet
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Hmmm, I swear both were for pilots, but yeah, you’re right.

empty bloom
stoic hamlet
empty bloom
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I wish the Halo Reach civilian guns would get canonized.

last anchor
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Painfully awkward shotgun grip

empty bloom
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Painfully awkward grips is Bungalow's MO.

stoic hamlet
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The sniper is worse.

Well no, both suck.

prisma sierra
sonic lagoon
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Did Insurrectionists ever fight each other?

empty bloom
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Considering there were many groups, yes.

sonic lagoon
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What battles?

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And what economic policies did the insurrectionists pursue?

empty bloom
empty bloom
wispy pewter
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Master Chief was killing humans before he was fighting the covenant

sonic lagoon
# empty bloom yes.

All I know is that that wanted economic independence but that doesn’t really say much. Of course since there are different groups it gets me curious if their own economic polices vary from state to state.

empty bloom
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They did.

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I'm literally telling you the extent of what's canon here lmao

sonic lagoon
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Oh ok. Frieden and Koslovics were more defined.

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What type of economy and government did the Unified Earth Government have?

empty bloom
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Democratic/oligarchic capitalism.

sonic lagoon
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Oh ok, that makes sense. Big corporations taking the resources of far away colonies and giving peanuts to the colonists.

wispy pewter
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I bet Microsoft still has the monopoly over computer systems in the 26th century

last anchor
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Microsoft makes powered assault armor and presumably coordinates with Charblys Defense Systems at the URNA Seattle complex mentioned on the Hyrdas grip

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There's also mentions of corporate shadow wars that require Spartan intervention

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Kirkland is a weapons testing site

empty bloom
last anchor
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Considering the time i have spent there it's not a bad place for it.
Woodlands, city blocks for MOUT, Lake Washington for amphibious work, Mercer Islands right there

wispy pewter
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didn't know there were still countries on earth

last anchor
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Every country that exists today exists on some form in 2560
Though most are part of country blocks like the United Republics of North America (URNA)

Korea reunited too

wispy pewter
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kim jong un defeated

rapid river
# sonic lagoon And what economic policies did the insurrectionists pursue?

The Insurrection had economic policies? Thought they were just about "screw rhe UNSC/UEG" and tearing down society for whatever flimsy reason they can come up with, from "I don't want to fight humans so I fight humans" and "I got everything I wanted, so I realised I live in a society".

Even Ilsa Zane quite literally scoffed at the motion of "economic policy" in Hunt the Truth.

Ilsa: You talk about transitioning us out of military conflict, is that right? Build up economic power.

Maya: I think it’s a viable option, if we-

Ilsa: Look around. There’s a reason these people are following me. There’s a reason they scream “from fire to blood!”

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The Insurrection genuinely do not offer a valid, alternative government or means to manage and sustain the colonies beyond being anti-UEG.

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Even in New Blood, the United Rebel Front had zero reason to try and conquer Draco III beyond "its mine now" and began not only lying about the UEG starting the war with the Covenant, but victim blaming a citizen of Draco III for the attrocities of Draco III.

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And now you have Venezia cooperating with the Banished, you know, the guys who gleefully torture and eat their victims.

wispy pewter
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glass those traitors

empty bloom
# rapid river The Insurrection genuinely do not offer a valid, alternative government or means...

That's partially because the insurrectionists are vaguely defined but also varied groups, typically defined from world to world-some of which are self-sustaining collectives who desire the right to self-govern, others are anarchic iconoclasts, and still others fight for what could be construed as a noble goal if their opponent wasn't the relatively saccharine non-ONI elements of the UNSC.

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It's more an issue with how the narrative of the insurrectionist conflict is presented. We know what motivations they could have, what they should have, and what specific worlds do have, but actual practical information is few and fair between.

empty bloom
# rapid river And now you have Venezia cooperating with the Banished, you know, the guys who g...

Additionally, the Banished seem to heavily favor the less primitive aspects of Brute society, being a faction that more exists to be an exception of what was previously the rule regarding brutes outside of desperation.

Consider what Brutes are and what they did pre-Covenant, and it's all but directly stated that they have an entirely different approach to the 'validity' of eating thinking meat-likely derived from the cultural shifts that would go with drastic changes to their homeworld's ecosystem and foods that would still be well within living memory. Specifically-all meat is food, even other brutes, and there's no real cultural taboo against it.

Additionally,The specific brute skein that the Banished seem to favor the tactics and behaviors of (The vheiloth) is still brutal by human standards, but also deeply philosophical and thus less likely to get into such behaviors as brutalizing and consuming thinking meat readily and barbarically without cause-such as slimming food rations or as intimidation.

wispy pewter
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insurrection so bad it warranted a super soldier programme with suits that costs as much as a small warship?

empty bloom
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Except it was also so weak that they were getting their fleets crushed before the supersoldiers even touched innie space station grounds.

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That's the thing, 'insurrectionists' is an incredibly broad term. URF is one faction of many.

unborn patrol
empty bloom
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Oh, that's absolutely the case.

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In terms of the first sentence.

wispy pewter
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would you read a Halo book not about spartans or unsc

unique rune
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So… Broken Circle? Shadow of Intent?

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The Forerunner Trilogy?

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I want to say the Rion Forge series would also fall under this but I haven’t read any of them beyond Smoke and Shadow.

empty bloom
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I'm not a big fan of the ones we've had, but then, I dislike Forerunner lore for nonstandard reasons.

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I want more created, insurrectionist, and banished only perspectives

wispy pewter
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can't believe they almost let the infinity fall into insurrectionist hands

carmine sleet
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You say that like the UNSC has extremely lax security for the ship

orchid kettle
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But who can really say for certain

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I think Halo is just kind of hesitant to get too into what Innies actually want for their colonies beyond Muh Freedom, because then it starts feeling a bit too politically loaded for a franchise ultimately about a green man shooting aliens

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All we saw in Bad Blood and Cole Protocol is that they like voting on stuff

orchid kettle
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I still hold that the new human dissident faction should have been Sapien Sunrise, who would oppose all attempts by the UNSC to play nice with the Elites and other races of the galaxy

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Barring like, Vaz or whoever else, humans in Halo feel almost too willing to let bygones be bygones when it comes to Elites lol

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and Sapien Sunrise has only done like one thing in the franchise

stoic hamlet
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Would have been quite compelling too. Given us a nice morally grey kind of situation.

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Are they right? No. But you can understand where they’re coming from.

orchid kettle
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Legacy of Onyx feels like it needed them as the antags

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What kind of message does it really send when whatsherface has her home invaded by violent aliens for a second time

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but I guess now she knows that there's some good ones

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Sapien Sunrise attacking the school however would show how aliens don't have a monopoly on terror and violence

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Like, there's that bully character who gets shot and killed by the Sangheili terrorists, right? I think we're supposed to not really care that much because the kid was racist, but by doing this, isn't he kinda validated?

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Turns out-- aliens do hate him and his way of life and want to kill him and his friends and family

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The thing racist propaganda preaches

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Meanwhile, if the attackers were human, it'd destroy his worldview

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and I dunno, isn't that more narratively satisfying than him just dying

carmine sleet
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Now you're making me want a story of a human from Saipan Sunrise stranded with an Elite on a desolate planet or something and how that situation either forces them to work together or kill each other

stoic hamlet
carmine sleet
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Indeed

empty bloom
last anchor
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Also both Legacy of Onyx and Sapien Sunrise are wasted potentials tbh.

empty bloom
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Wait... Ilsa Zane has a grudge against Heiu Dinh? Of all people?

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I mean, I guess I figured she'd be the Banished Spartan, but I didn't expect Dinh to show up here.

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Oh, also, she's 100% a cannibal now, considering how this reads.

fair hazel
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I listened twice to it

fair hazel
fair hazel
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Legacy of onyx is one of my favourite books

shut fulcrum
obsidian thistle
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Oh as a side note cause it was tied to the story in the Steam page.

empty bloom
obsidian thistle
empty bloom
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And frankly, I think it'd be cooler if she was a cannibal

obsidian thistle
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Zane holding a dead Spartan

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I wonder if thats tied to her hunt for Dinh

empty bloom
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If that's canon, well that's at least two Spartans dead on her kill count.

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Wonder if they'd have the constitution to say that's a dead Gamma she's holding.

obsidian thistle
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One before she got the armor, one to get said armor. And this one

empty bloom
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Ah, I misread that part a bit then.

obsidian thistle
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And best not assume its a Gamma. Dinh wasnt and he wore said armor

empty bloom
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Didn't say to assume.

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I am hoping they don't do the lame thing I expect them to do.

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Which is say it's a IV.

obsidian thistle
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I'd say it may be of the same group Dinh was part of.

empty bloom
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I'd rather they actually have another Spartan get got than another damn IV for the death quota.

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Maybe the IIIG who clapped Telcam.

obsidian thistle
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Tying it to Dinh is how I'd do it

empty bloom
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You can have your cake and eat it too.

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Not like mixed gen squads are entirely unheard of, and IVs are known to be headhunters as much as IIIs were.

obsidian thistle
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Interesting to see Zane has a hammer

empty bloom
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... Honestly, I'd assume she killed the Chieftain that decided not to kill her at some point.

empty bloom
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Interesting.

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It does make it very clear that Escharum is entirely willing to spare those who kill his underlings to make a point or gain, I suppose.

carmine sleet
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Maybe he had the Spartan Killers studying Ilsa as part of their training

empty bloom
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I feel like you wouldn't be able to actually learn a lot about Spartans from her.

carmine sleet
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True but it's better than nothing

stoic hamlet
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Zane was always more brawn, but little of the tactical mindset that defines a Spartan.

drowsy mesa
stoic hamlet
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Didn’t she kill one in Escalation?

stoic hamlet
drowsy mesa
stoic hamlet
drowsy mesa
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But the narration mentions she has killed at least two Spartans

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Mentioning the one who stole the armor she uses was not her first Spartan kill

obsidian thistle
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🙂

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Harder to ignore

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So thats 3 Spartan deaths attributed to Zane

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Not that it really stops anything really

stoic hamlet
obsidian thistle
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Its not

stoic hamlet
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Yeah it’s not on the waypoint version.

obsidian thistle
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Doesn't make the citation any less viable however

stoic hamlet
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No, but I’d take waypoint over the steam page, myself.

It could be shown off in the monthly canon fodder though.

obsidian thistle
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The image doesn't break anything however

stoic hamlet
# drowsy mesa Mentioning the one who stole the armor she uses was not her first Spartan kill

That doesn’t mean the MIRAGE armour is a Spartan, though., is my point. We don’t know when the armour image took place. Or if it’s an artistic interpretation but not really meant to evoke any particular scene.

Dinh wore it before he was a Spartan (well, technically he wore SPI) but the two seem pretty interchangeable, at least visually. (Which is up for interpretation of it’s a good thing or not.)

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To be clear, I’m just playing devils advocate.

obsidian thistle
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Actually I believe Dinh was a Spartan then

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And Mirage IIC is a Mjolnir set

stoic hamlet
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Gonna avoid getting into the semantics of this. 😛

stoic hamlet
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The operation we see him wearing MIRAGE in is before he was recruited.

obsidian thistle
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Opposite way around

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Dinh even mentions that Mirage IIC was his first set in the seasonal narrative

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We at Halopedia made good sense of the order of stuff

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If you wanna quick refresher

stoic hamlet
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Was it not that he was a field agent that worked with a unit that found themselves in a drone hive, with most of them (all of them) KIA’d due to bad intel?

He’s then recruited into S-IV because the mission was still a success?

obsidian thistle
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Nope

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He was a Spartan then

stoic hamlet
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I’ll give it a re-read.

I don’t know why I think it was the way I do? Early blurbs maybe.

obsidian thistle
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Oh I understand how it was mistaken

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343i kinda blurred the lines

stoic hamlet
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Ahhhh, yeah, they kind of…meshed the two events together.

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I guess his memories fudging the details, or something, is the excuse.

obsidian thistle
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So much that the cgi cinematic made people believe Oasis was on the same planet Catalyst was.

stoic hamlet
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Yeah they really didn’t do themselves any favours with his whole thing, lol.

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I still recall everyone assuming he was a III.

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Well “everyone”

obsidian thistle
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But yea, Mirage IIC is Mjolnir

stoic hamlet
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Irrelevant to the discussion, though.

It doesn’t matter what it is. The question is when did it happen, if at all?

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I’d say it’s still up in the air.

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The image doesn’t break anything, but it also has no accompanying story or background.

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It means nothing as of now.

obsidian thistle
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I'd say does the image need to be explained?

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We know Zane is stong. She has killed 2 Spartans without wearing armor. Wearing it doesnt change much bar make her more durable lol.

stoic hamlet
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Not necessarily.

But my point is, if it’s just artistic design and etc, then it doesn’t add to her kill count.

She’s killed at least 2 Spartans, but the MIRAGE wearer (that one, anyway) isn’t one of them, that we know of.

obsidian thistle
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I'd say that perhaps the image is just the most recent image of Zane in the universe we have.

stoic hamlet
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Yeah, I’d agree with that.

As of now though, I wouldn’t ascribe anything to it, though. Otherwise.

obsidian thistle
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Maybe during the op that Escharum sent her and the NCA that joined her.

stoic hamlet
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We don’t have the information to make that claim.

obsidian thistle
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I did say maybe aha

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Just tossing ideas admittedly

stoic hamlet
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I mean, technically it could have happened before she killed Drake.

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Fair enough!

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Or never happened at all.

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Etc

empty bloom
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I am currently cringing internally at the prospect of a "Tom Clancy's Halo:Breakpoint"

stoic hamlet
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That is, why specifically now?

obsidian thistle
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I still like the idea that Zane may be hunting for information on Dinh and the last time she saw him he'd likely be wearing Mirage IIC.

empty bloom
# stoic hamlet ….ehy?

The main enemy of Ghost Recon Breakpoint was a former Ghost (Spartan, Zane) leading a group of disillusioned special forces from Spetznaz to other ghosts (Spartans, Jannissaries, whatever) with loose cooperation with Russian (Banished) contacts.

stoic hamlet
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Ahhhh

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….yeah

obsidian thistle
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I will say... a part of me kinda wishes some of these Waypoint Chronicles were comics also.

empty bloom
obsidian thistle
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You know, I'm holding out that someday 343i will release a physical edition of the Waypoint Chronicles.

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Just need enough of them and boom

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Wont be the first time Microsoft released a book featuring stuff that was from blogs in the past

empty bloom
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Only if they included the stuff that got lost in the Waypoint remodel.

obsidian thistle
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You are hoping a lil to much there friend

empty bloom
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Please, my expectations are already at the Earth's core. They physically can't get lower.

obsidian thistle
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I only suggest the Waypoint Chronicles as they are closer to a book layout than a lotta other content

stoic hamlet
obsidian thistle
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You could get a Fractures/Crimson Skies scenario

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For those unaware on Xbox history

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Crimson Skies used to have a blog

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Said blog posted stories

empty bloom
obsidian thistle
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Said stories were later published in a book

stoic hamlet
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Happened to a lot of early 40K stuff as well

obsidian thistle
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Is interesting that its only happened to Crimson Skies Xbox wise

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Which is why I wouldnt be against Waypoint Chronicles getting that treatment

stoic hamlet
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Feels like something from a bygone era, sadly.

last anchor
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Also, I miss Crimson Skies. That was my JAM back on the OG Xbox...

stoic hamlet
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I remember Crimson Skies.

Had some weird choices though.

prisma sierra
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They better male Ilsa Zane fight chief in Halo 7

prisma sierra
drowsy mesa
stoic hamlet
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Also, a thing people are missing about the short story:

The augmentations that Spartan Zane had received all those years ago were unique to what would become standard for the SPARTAN-IV program. She had been told that ONI was looking to make the costly Mjolnir armor effectively obsolete by instead making her bones practically indestructible, grafting reinforcement plating under her skin and inducing muscle growth that would put her on as close to an equal physical footing with the likes of a Sangheili or Jiralhanae as possible.
That was only half true, of course—a convenient story that seemed just as contrived as Dasc’s religious con. In reality, she had been a lab rat for untested augmentation cocktails and procedures that had wreaked havoc on her brain as well as her body.

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TLDR Zane is not the strongest Spartan.

empty bloom
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That was the intent, but the augs involved were not what they said.

stoic hamlet
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By saying “she had been told” and then comparing it to Dasc’s speeches, it implies it wasn’t actually true. At least from her POV.

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She “says” this about his religion, after all:

Frankly, it sounded every bit as absurd and unbelievable as the false religion Dasc himself peddled, but Zane chose to entertain his words for as long as he was providing her with information.

empty bloom
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A single punch.

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And was physically beating a MJOLNIR armored Spartan in a fight.

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So I think there's some truth behind it.

empty bloom
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yeah, but if she crushed his throat with the first blow, it doesn't really matter, now does it?

stoic hamlet
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Well, I was going to counter with Naomi’s one punch that broke a Brute’s spine and paralyzed it instantly, so… I’d say it kinda does.

empty bloom
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Last I checked.

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I am a bit outdated on K5.

stoic hamlet
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Yes, but that’s my point, compare the two punches.

Naomi broke his spine in one go.

Zane “only” (only, man, that feels absurd to say, lol) crushed his windpipe. That’s technically survivable, more so than having your spine broken.

That sounds… really bad, trying to compare, but I’d argue the spine breaking is a worse, more wide reaching injury, is my point.

empty bloom
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Were both entirely from the front?

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It sounds like that's a weird clarification to require, but

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Like

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More meat, more sinew, more bone, more cartiledge.

stoic hamlet
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Yes. Wait one, I’ll retrieve the passage. Formatting is harder on mobile.

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Somewhere else in the ship automatic fire hammered in short bursts, but in Naomi’s ears it faded into the background. She landed in the cockpit between two Jiralhanae apparently mired in slow motion. She didn’t even raise her rifle. There wasn’t enough space, and that was a stroke of luck: the Brutes couldn’t make full use of their massive weight. She brought her fist straight up under the first Brute’s chin and snapped his head back so hard that BB felt the small shock wave of his breaking spine travel back up her arm. The blow didn’t kill the Brute outright, but he went down.

  • Glasslands, chapter 10

Mind you, upper cut versus a throat punch, so I suppose there is some variance to note.

empty bloom
empty bloom
prisma sierra
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Damn she is stronger than Mjolnir. What is she made off? Titanium?

empty bloom
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Well, on paper, IV augs would make their bones stronger than II bones.

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(Carbon nanotube and titanium A joint reinforcement versus ceramic reinforcement and coating)

wispy pewter
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But are Spartan IIs are still stronger? lots of people pissed that MC didn't beat the crap out of Locke in Halo 5

empty bloom
#

A IV in armor is roughly parallel to a II in armor.

#

So Locke standing on par with Chief, a non-standout outside of luck, is perfectly expected.

fair hazel
wispy pewter
#

were there any spartan II defectors or was that strictly a spartan IV thing

#

funny how the kidnapped ones has less defectors

prisma sierra
#

I think only Soren

carmine sleet
carmine sleet
rapid river
# carmine sleet There was also significantly less IIs than IVs

Yeah, doing the math, there's a 1% defection rate for the Spartan-IIs (1/75) while the Spartan-IVs based on known defectors (Scruggs, Zane, Mickey, Schien) and estimate numbers of ~1,000, that's a defection rate of 0.4%.

So technically the IVs have a lower defection rate. :p

#

More seriously, this does show you can manipulate the numbers to push any sort of narrative

carmine sleet
#

Indeed

#

And that's not even getting into the circumstances behind any of them

#

Like, apart from Soren, the IIs that managed to escape just wanted to go back to their families

#

Such as Daisy, who was shocked to see someone who had her face and life when she got back home

empty bloom
#

Also worth noting that 2 out of the 3 IV traitors were converted via insider threat, 1 was killed and the other was reavowed on a strict retainer.

#

I used to be more angry over this, but thinking on it, marines and such like Major Kinsano were former innies who joined due to the HCW; If that's the case, I can easily imagine many with insurrectionist leanings would still go traitor, and in fact stay in to do more damage, if the conditions that created their original ideology never went away.

last anchor
#

And they never did

#

The UNSC didn't get better during tbr war and didn't exactly improve after

fair hazel
#

Also the post-covenant war's landscape is very different too

#

Once the common enemy and threat is gone, things muddy up

carmine sleet
#

Aye, not everyone is going to agree with what happens next

#

Same is true for the various Covenant species too

orchid kettle
#

We're kinda at the point where everybody who isn't a Spartan or Atriox is fodder

#

but hey, Zane didn't think she could win a fight against six Brutes

#

but Vale meanwhile could beat 4 Elites

#

Hmmm, I wonder what the cut off point is

last anchor
#

I want more windpipe crushing.

#

I also wanna see what a thornblade actually DOES. Its been mentioned in a bunch of armor pieces and apparently its been around for a while but we know nothing about it.
Is it "powered"? Is it a vibrating blade? Plasma? Lightning? Hows it work.

orchid kettle
#

where you stab and then it releases co2

#

making the wound explode

last anchor
#

What, the Lekgolo?

orchid kettle
#

I think the rationale is that said Elites have grown rusty and fat over the years, and their "sanctum hide" doesn't augment their strength like normal elite combat harnesses apparently do

#

but then again, Vale fought them unarmed while they had swords. And they were fighting in a tunnel the Elites could control with their mind.

stoic hamlet
#

I assume some kind of vibroblade.

last anchor
#

Far as Im concerned it makes the meanicing hum that Star Wars vibroblades did.

stoic hamlet
#

Well, we don’t know.

#

That’s just my guess.

rapid river
#

Yeah, I never liked the scene of Naomi just one shotting a Jiralhanae with a punch.

Like, these creatures are much larger, heavier and even stronger than Spartans, and regularly fight each other as part of their daily lives. They can punt Spartans across rooms, throw Sangheili like ragdolls, but a punch from Naomi is enough to kill one?

What espeically irks me is when someone states Atriox should have been one shottwd by the Chief with his uppercut. Because we should totally see a central antagonist be killed for the sake of being consistent with an obscure scene from a single novel which is prone to errors (like how energy shields weren't mentioned once in Traviss' trilogy).

#

The windpipe hit Ilsa Zane did does make sense considering that Jiralhanae are obviously not health bars but complex biological creatures, and that a Spartan, even Forerunner would die if their windpipe was crushed.

stoic hamlet
#

That said, I like the quasi retcon that Zane’s been given, it feels better this way, even if it’s contradictory.

#

Semi relevant, you can actually survive a crushed windpipe, even today, apparently. As long as you’re given proper medical attention.

Kinda neat.

#

It’s a logical weak spot, aye.

#

But yeah, Zane’s sort of retcon here is fine. Honestly, any Spartan probably could have done that, but that’s not meant as an insult towards Zane, it just makes her feel more grounded in the setting.

#

Zane always felt like she was a bad comic book villain. Still kinda does, but with this soft change, a little less so.

#

There’s nothing to say that, tbf.

Atriox has no gorget, nor does Tartarus. She could absolutely do that to them and probably score the hit.

#

The issue is more height than anything else.

#

That’s an entirely different context though.

#

You think she’s gonna fight hand to hand?

#

She’s insane, not stupid.

#

Guns exist, lol.

#

If it was the same context as poor Amatus, she could almost definitely have scored that throat punch.

#

I’m not sure why you’re assuming she’d lead with that sort of attack.

Honestly, Zane overall has me questioning a lot of fans and how they assume characters would fight, lol

#

Because like, guys, they’re not going to immediately go for the brawling.

#

I mean… they might. Atriox just kinda stood there and let Red Team aim two firearms at him.

Escharum monologued.

So do most villains. It’s a conceit of the medium, but no one logically would ever really allow them the chance.

#

Depends on the scenario. If it’s a group affair, then no, because that’s just basic math. If it’s repeated one on one duels, maybe.

#

Spartans aren’t as strong, but they’re often faster.

carmine sleet
#

Well Halsey did kidnap kids to make into child soldiers, that is pretty evil

#

Like, yeah the Spartans are an effective force against the Covenant and other factions, that doesn't change the messed up origins and how morally bankrupt the people in charge of the S-IIs were, Halsey included

empty bloom
#

Halsey is objectively a terrible person, and the weird backlash about Glasslands somehow being wrong for stating directly that was always stupid in my eyes.

#

Also, hell no. Look at any CIA director.

#

Should? Maybe. Would? Oh hell no, they'd never see a day of prison, they're the winner of the op.

prisma sierra
#

Master Chief can do that. Unless you mean unarmoured

#

If the Spartan II program was made when Humanity was under the threat of annilihation it would be more understandable.

#

Apparently they thought the war with the rebels was going to become huge

empty bloom
#

Of Infinite.

#

In top-of-the-line ace-custom armor.

#

And several Spartans have outdone Chief in melee against brutes.

prisma sierra
#

I thought he was talking about the average brute

empty bloom
#

Two of which were IVs!!!

prisma sierra
bronze prawn
#

in combat it can be crucial to have the element of surprise and delivered the first blow

#

atriox had both against red team and chief

prisma sierra
#

Chief did fair better since he was in the latest gen armor

#

Got a few punches in

bronze prawn
#

that was first round

#

I dont think atriox would live to see another day in a more than possible round two

prisma sierra
#

Yeah put red team in the latest Mjolnir they can defeat Atriox.

wispy pewter
#

but master chief is

#

he got defeated by atriox tho

#

but he defeated the escharum dude

#

and the harbinger

#

make spartans great again

#

Spartan IVs really ruined their reputation

unique rune
#

no

pallid knoll
#

he’s only unstoppable during gameplay because the universe enters a time loop until he wins

wispy pewter
#

he has an AI that calls him stud muffin

prisma sierra
#

Weapon will never replace her

empty bloom
#

And Spartans have beaten brutes a lot in CQC

stoic hamlet
#

It’s almost like individuals can’t be 100% known to beat each other.

#

Shocking truly.

ember veldt
#

Reading that new short story

Man, Halsey's gotta be feeling kinda smug about the whole "Child Soldier" thing considering how many S-IVs have decided to become Innies or go AWOL

And this one just #$%@% ate people

#

To impress the Banished

prisma sierra
#

Meanwhile Jerome and his shotgun

ember veldt
#

Jerome just built different

prisma sierra
#

Yeah S-IIs are built different

#

He did that in the MkIV armor

#

Like if you get surprised by a Brute sure.... But Spartans should be in everyway superior to the monkeys

unique rune
#

It's also been only like, three out of a couple thousand S-IVs with zero augmentation fatalities (nine fatalities if we're counting the proto-S-IVs that Zane belongs to). Compared to S-II which killed half of its seventy-five candidates. Along with one that went Insurrectionist after being crippled by said augmentations.

stoic hamlet
unique rune
#

Ah, I must've missed that. In any case I think my point still stands. Halsey kidnapped and brainwashed 75 children and then got 30-odd of them killed or crippled, she's got nothing to be smug about.

prisma sierra
#

Guns are a thing

#

Thank the heavens

#

There was a cinematic somewhere chief stole a hammer with his grapple and it cuts

#

Spartans should be very quick

#

Even unarmed they will find a way

prisma sierra
#

What's wrong with you

#

Even in the show we see MC fight at very close range

#

Jerome as well

#

Okay and?

#

A Spartan has a gun big surprise

#

Thanks for saying that Spartans are better and will win

#

Spartan 1337 went head to head with a brute

#

In fist combat

#

Shocker the cannon fodder died

#

Noble Team would be able to spank an army of brutes

stoic hamlet
#

Most Spartans tended to die to either overwhelming odds or air support that they couldn’t contest, it should be said. Very, very rarely have they died to single attackers in a duel like fashion, because - shocking, I know - duels in a modern, more grounded setting like Halo are rare. :p

wispy pewter
#

Cal 141 died to a brute in one smack

#

but yeah spartans should be like a one man army

#

but she dominated that brute in a fist fight. So idk why this guy thinks spartans are no match withoiut weapons

stoic hamlet
# wispy pewter but yeah spartans should be like a one man army

Well, yes and no.

They’re “one man armies” because they fight so effectively as a team and use their enhanced reflexes and training to their advantage.

They’re most similar to Titanfall pilots, or the Space Marines from Astartes.

To borrow and rephrase the quote from Titanfall 2’s cinematic trailer: “Spartans see the world differently”.

#

They’re (very rarely) going to come up against weapons and does that can kill them because they don’t place themselves in a position to be killed by them, but they can be killed by them easily if things go wrong.

#

Case in point, the reach radio conversations feature Spartan II’s “going hand to hand with tanks”… but that’s not what’s actually described.

What is actually described is Red Team using automated sentry guns and multiple minefields of high explosive charges to disrupt and disorient the wraith column, then rushing down the disorganized covenant forces before they can regain their bearings because fighting at range - where the wraiths have the advantage - is suicide.

wispy pewter
#

can the covenant see trough SPI stealth? like Spartan Killers have invisibility they sneak up on them

stoic hamlet
#

Highly unlikely. SPI’s stealth features are generally better than Covenant active camo in ambush, but covenant camo is better on the move.

SPI has tripped up Forerunner AI before.

#

But really the downfall of Covie camo is its thermal signature.

wispy pewter
#

One thing I like about the second season of the show is we have armourless chief beating the crap out of covenant forces using his fists

wispy pewter
stoic hamlet
#

Yes. It’s been a key weakness of Covenant camouflage since The Flood. As long as you have something that allows you to see in the thermal or infrared spectrum, you can easily spot someone using Covenant derived camouflage due to its massive thermal bleed through.

In Rubicon Protocol, despite having no motion tracker and a HUD that was failing, Spartan Stone just turned on her helmet’s infrared and spotted Jega easily.

#

She didn’t kill him, of course.

#

But she could see him with no issues.

rapid river
#

Well, more specifically, its the active camo generator that reveals the thermal signature of the cloaked user, rather than the active camouflage itself.

And its noteworthy that Stone relied on her suit's A.I to track Jega rather than simply overlaying her HUD (though that could just be because it was damaged).

#

Its less Stone could "see" Jega, but that Mouse directed Stone where Jega was coming from, allowing her to make out his silhouette better.

#

“See if you can track the thermal from his stealth generator,” she told Ouco as she activated her own active camo.

“On it,” Ouco said. “Signal approaching! One o’clock!”

The closer he came, the better she could make out his silhouette, which took on a clear distortion effect.

stoic hamlet
rapid river
#

Eh, close enough

#

I said Mouse right before opening TRP, lol

prisma sierra
#

Oh she's the Spartan that Chief took the shield thingy from

stoic hamlet
#

But yes, very true.

prisma sierra
#

Wait so the AI can see but not Stone

rapid river
# stoic hamlet But yes, very true.

Guess my point is that while thermal sensors does help break camouflage, it doesn't completely nulify its effects and an individual is still reliant on their own Mark I eyeball to detect a cloaked user.

Which I find more interesting than nullifying active camo completely. Its less effective, but still a capable tool when applied appropriately, just as we later saw when Jega did manage to sneak up behind Stone despite Ouco's warning.

stoic hamlet
# prisma sierra Wait so the AI can see but not Stone

Well, she can see him. As noted by Drof’s quoted passage. But knowing to track his thermals gives her an advantage but obviously not a win.

Only a Spartan, or someone with good spatial awareness, could probably put that to good use.

… or ODST’s in tight spaces with a free fire zone, as seen in The Flood.

prisma sierra
#

Well at least he won't be a problem anymore. Chief killed the fella

unique rune
#

ehhhhhhhhhhhh

#

that's been left
vague

prisma sierra
#

Atriox had the chance to kill chief there and there but instead threw him into space

bronze prawn
#

im pretty sure throwing someone into space after beating the hell out of him should be enough to kill a spartan

#

those brutes punch REALLY hard

stoic hamlet
#

It’s not even about punching.

#

Honestly John’s survival still bugs me.

prisma sierra
rapid river
#

If Chief wore his GEN2 suit, or Mark VI, he would've been killed. Straight up.

bronze prawn
#

he "kills" chief more to piss off cortana than for actual hate to humans or anything like that

stoic hamlet
prisma sierra
#

Imagine if Esparza wasn't there

bronze prawn
#

well he didnt kill him for good

prisma sierra
#

And wasn't thrown into space

bronze prawn
#

if an armor from the years of the fall of reach endures a fall from space i dont see why one in some years in the future couldnt

unique rune
#

The problem is less that he was tossed into space and more that he was stuck there for six months and survived somehow

versed helm
#

is it ever addressed where blue team or fireteam Osiris were during the events of Halo Infinite? or is that sort of largely set aside in favor of focusing more on the “soft reboot” of the main story

bronze prawn
unique rune
#

One of the audio logs in Infinite mentions Blue Team being sent to do something else.

prisma sierra
versed helm
#

It sucks that almost everything from Halo 5 was kind of just tossed aside in favor of a more banished focused story, would’ve been nice to see some kind of a follow through with what happened in 5 beyond the stuff with the guardians

unique rune
#

Osiris' members are spread across a whole bunch of different things

prisma sierra
#

We don't know where Majestic and Palmer is at

#

Do we

versed helm
#

for now I’m gonna assume “KIA” as a result of the destruction of the infinity

prisma sierra
#

That's probably it

#

Gen 3 is like super advanced

#

It's cool

empty bloom
unique rune
#

I mean, sure, it might have some kind of built-in cryo function.

I think it'd be kind of a lame explanation for something I'd consider a bit of a contrivance but whatever.

empty bloom
#

Additionally; Crimson was not still on the Infinity, they are assisting ONI with anti-Promethean tactics as well as talent scouting at the AJJAMs.

marble lion
empty bloom
#

Defeated is the term everyone uses, and Infinite is not afraid to say killed.

prisma sierra
#

Would be funny if they killed Locke off

#

I don't think he's that popular

bronze prawn
#

thats something that 343

#

is actually capable of

empty bloom
#

Funny is a funny word for it.

versed helm
#

I mean all I’m gonna say about the infinity as it relates to the main campaign of infinite is: it would’ve been nice to see some of it have a more direct presence within the campaign beyond audio logs, which is nice, like I’m glad we get some level of information about what happened there, but I wouldn’t have been opposed to the infinity itself having crash landed on Zeta halo, something along those lines

empty bloom
#

Infinite's campaign was something I was skeptical but positive about, but the more I think about it the more I hate it.

prisma sierra
#

Yeah the only other Spartans you see in the campaign are dead

#

Except Griffin

empty bloom
bronze prawn
empty bloom
#

Would fit better.

prisma sierra
versed helm
#

I’m not familiar myself with the exact number of Spartans (even roughly) out there as far as Spartan - IV survivors go, let alone other generations

prisma sierra
#

I mean he did break Chiefs visor...

empty bloom
bronze prawn
#

are spartans 4s ¿expendables?

empty bloom
#

No more than IIIs were.

#

So, no.

#

'But Ackerson-'

#

Ackerson is an idiot.

bronze prawn
unique rune
#

They're expendable to the extent that any extensively trained supersoldier in expensive power armor is

empty bloom
#

Which is to say... Not very.

bronze prawn
#

i think their armor is less expendable than their "persons"

versed helm
#

we talking about IV’s or III’s?

empty bloom
# prisma sierra I mean he did break Chiefs visor...

I mean, Osiris in general is on the tier of Apollo-it's a highly trained and frequently changing roster of Spartans. It's not really much of a permanent fireteam but any IV fireteam in a group named after a mythological diety seems to be top of the line.

empty bloom
empty bloom
#

As I said-Ackerson's an idiot. His own underlings did not agree with his views and it should not be the agreed takeaways.

#

Like

prisma sierra
#

I like the fan animation where Noble team was sent to stop Blue team instead

empty bloom
#

Sounds dumb.

versed helm
#

honestly what confuses me a little is the comparison of physical strength post-augmentations between IV’s and III’s. I’m not really sure which generation is stronger overall (not including Mjolnir armor)

empty bloom
#

In MJOLNIR, they're all effectively equal. IV augs are designed to work with the armor more efficiently.

versed helm
#

I was always under the impression III’s were at least somewhat considerably weaker than II’s out of armor

empty bloom
#

You'd be wrong.

#

It's a very common fan misconception.

bronze prawn
#

1/3 of the things in halo are misconceptions

#

fr

empty bloom
#

The gap between IIs and IIIs has more to do with age than actual end ability.

prisma sierra
empty bloom
#

They both have both.

#

Halo Legends' Odd One Out? That one isn't canon.

prisma sierra
#

Halo legends is canon besides 1337

versed helm
#

to my knowledge the only level of strength enhancement the IV’s got was protein muscle coatings, but other than that they didn’t gain much in the area of physical strength enhancements, more along the lines of other enhancements to make them more resilient overall like stronger stomach acid, lungs that could temporarily process toxins, etc.

empty bloom
#

The Babysitter is canon though.

prisma sierra
#

She took a hammer to the face. Before that she beat the brute up and threw it off the waterfall

versed helm
#

for the IV’s the armor did most of the work in regards to combat effectiveness from what I can tell

empty bloom
prisma sierra
#

That's an opinion

versed helm
#

I wonder how someone with Zane’s augmentations would stack up against a II or III

marble lion
bronze prawn
#

who are we talking about

versed helm
empty bloom
prisma sierra
empty bloom
#

Yes, seriously, a freakin bioreactor.

bronze prawn
#

that sounds cool

empty bloom
#

I assume it's why they don't use, say, colostomy bags in MJOLNIR or something.

#

Their digestive tract is so efficient and the bioreactor takes whatever's left that so it's likely a nonissue.

versed helm
#

almost makes me wonder how they’re gonna eventually introduce Spartan-V’s in the future and what kind of differences you could bring in with that

#

if at all

#

it’s more over just theorizing like well in the event that they created another generation of Spartans, what could you do within reason to improve upon the IV’s

empty bloom
#

Realistically you'd likely just see iterations over IVs again and again until they're effectively perfected as a concept, with maybe an honorific but ultimately meaningless Spartan 'V' rename.

bronze prawn
#

the 4s works, big numbers, good augmentations and cheaper armors

empty bloom
#

Men and women who can win against Covenant forces and non Covenant forces with better tactics and equipment.

#

You answered it yourself lmao

prisma sierra
#

The difference is Spartan IVs are selected from ODSTs or other places while the IIs were picked from a very selective genepool and have been training since young

empty bloom
#

IVs solve pretty much every key issue that Spartans had in the past. Having a steeper learning curve in a world that knows how to counter Spartan tactics isn't really their fault.

bronze prawn
#

all 4s are combat veterans though

#

its not like is random people tbf

versed helm
#

Selecting from combat veterans for Spartan IV’s is a smart move, I.M.O

empty bloom
#

You still actually need to be within genetic compatibility range to get the augs, it's just that most highly rated and intelligent vets are going to be in that requirement grouping.

#

It's just way looser than it used to be, because techniques improved.

#

Well, IVs also have a lot more varied combat methodologies-it's something real special forces talent scout for, in fact. Having a more varied skill set on a team is invaluable.

prisma sierra
#

If I'm not mistaken the IIs have some augmentations the 4s don't?

empty bloom
#

And the IVs have some IIs don't.

#

IVs have a different bone augmentation method.

prisma sierra
empty bloom
#

IVs use a carbon nanotube/lattice structure versus the ceramic alloys of the IIs.

#

The bones and joints are likely stronger than II bones, but the muscles are likely less capable of matching the strength of the IIs, which would explain why they can have a stronger benefit from the same set of armor compared to a II or III-enough to be on par.

#

Simply, they can take the effect with less danger to themselves, and maximize a little bit more. This brings them just on par, but that's fine, that's the goal.

#

Different equations, same final answer.

prisma sierra
#

They way they introduced IVs though. Apparently they were disliked because of their personalities

empty bloom
#

Which is kind of dumb.

versed helm
#

From what I understand the majority of Spartan III augmentations were chemical, not quite on the level of II’s or IV’s

no idea the exact details of it all however

bronze prawn
#

I though they were dislike because " everyone now can be a spartan "

marble lion
#

In my opinion. The Spartan IVs were made due to UNSC was exhausted after the HCW, they felt the need a new generation of Spartans to combat any Covenant remnants and resurgences of the insurrectionist.

empty bloom
#

I rewatched the scenes. The professionalism is about what's expected for what they are, former special forces. You seen how much of a fool ex Seals can be?

#

They can be some whackadoos.

empty bloom
versed helm
stoic hamlet
prisma sierra
empty bloom
#

Eternal does know way more about IIIs than I do.

prisma sierra
#

They are not 7 foot plus

stoic hamlet
empty bloom
#

They're also usually way younger now that the Gammas are the only living ones.

stoic hamlet
#

Like they’re all (as adults), around 6’0”, minimum.

#

The smallest we know of is Lucy-B091, but she’s pointedly not the smallest, just one of the smallest.

prisma sierra
#

She is 5 foot 3

#

Bruhh

#

Isn't there a height requirement

stoic hamlet
#

No, that’s her height as of 12 years old.

prisma sierra
#

Oh

stoic hamlet
#

Which is actually quite tall for that age, at least by today’s standards.

empty bloom
#

Apparently the encylopedia borked the reads a bit on height.

stoic hamlet
#

It has a few issues.

empty bloom
#

Buuut that's kind of expected from the Encylopedia.

empty bloom
prisma sierra
#

I really like Spartan IIIs. They are so badass

stoic hamlet
#

Notably, it actually made Olivia-G291 taller, so there’s that.

#

Though it got her rank confused with Veta’s, so…

prisma sierra
#

Spartan IIIs are great because they usually don't make it back

unique rune
#

Except for all the operations they did survive but sure

prisma sierra
#

Ye XD

versed helm
carmine sleet
#

You say that like having a more ethical super soldier program that uses consenting adults is a bad thing

ruby canopy
#

A thousand SIVs is better than 30 something SIIs

sonic lagoon
#

Only really wanting to separate for quicker government response.

#

Then taking over other territories for resources and security.

stoic hamlet
# ruby canopy Quantity can be better than quality depending on the numbers

Yup, in a military sense, wonder weapons are generally non-viable.

A good example of this is the Ferguson rifle. It’s the closest we have to the Spartans I think, as it was a proper breechloader, issued in 1775, a good 100 years before breechloaders became common, used by a crack unit of specialists handpicked to use it to its fullest effectiveness… but it basically had no effect, because less than 200 rifles and their specially trained users doesn’t matter when you’ve got a war involving hundreds of thousands.

unique rune
#

The ‘quality’ difference between Spartan programs is also pretty minimal

stoic hamlet
#

It’s basically non existent.

prisma sierra
#

Sure the IIs were not morally correct... But they are extremely good in what they do

empty bloom
ruby canopy
empty bloom
#

IVs are, for the purposes of any actual military and not some goofy fictional universe, the best possible permutation of the Spartan program.

  • No major ethical concerns
  • Just as physically capable as the prior gens when utilizing standard operating practices (Power armor)
  • Can mentally blend in with regular humans in and out of combat
  • Provide a much more varied knowledge pool in both the esoteric to the practical
  • Are already combat-hardened veterans upon augmentation, thus proven and not unproven
  • Are much more common and seem to operate in a cycling training-fighting-training style (Not unlike WW2 American fighter pilots), thus allowing for continuity
  • Can be utilized in a much more varied array of operations due to the increased variance of power armor on the modern field, plus larger overall numbers
  • Can be specialized into a much more varied set of operations due to the above

The actual loss statistics and overall manner of IV deaths are incorrectly categorized as them being worse, when most either died due to the same things that brought IIs low (Being cut off and isolated, then overrun; Or being killed via transportation crashes), or IIIs low (Cut off, isolated, and hunted down). Due to a much more varied deployment manner and a different, changed battlespace, IVs are in a unique situation.

They cannot get wholly wasted en masse on major operations that are practically lethal to the entire company (Company sized deployments are practically unheard of, and IVs are largely better equipped on average than the IIIs were) as readily, they aren't being held in reserve for less-strenuous operations like the UNSC command's more close-to-the-chest treatment of the IIs. They are in a battlespace where the enemy knows how to handle Spartans due to the exploits of the IIs and IIIs, and knows to focus the everloving hell out of power armored human supersoldiers as quickly as possible, and worse, has had enough time to adjust and determine proper operational methods of wiping out Spartans.

#

Biggest two downsides being the enemies knowing how to handle them, which isn't really their fault and more time catching up to the Spartan program, and the other downside being a nebulous "Less skilled" (Which hits weirdly, considering how some IIs died, because it's clear that some IVs might straight up be more skilled than some of the IIs that didn't make it to 2553), I think that the situation is actually vastly overinflated in the II's favor when it probably shouldn't be. Oh, also, IVs were trained by people who trained the IIs and IIIs as well as serving IIs and IIIs.

ruby canopy
#

I would say there are very rare instances of IVs being more skilled than IIs and IIIs. Being trained from childhood gives them an edge that just can’t be overlooked

empty bloom
#

Not if you know anything about how bullcrap the agoge was.

prisma sierra
#

That's one thing about the IIs and IIIs have that is unique... They were training to be soldiers and nothing else since young.

empty bloom
#

Halo has a nasty tendency to make 'clean' agoges but there's no actual evidence to suggest that raising a child from a young age to be a warrior actually makes a good warrior.

#

If anything, modern evidence suggests the opposite.

ruby canopy
empty bloom
#

Anecdotally? Sure.

#

Research wise? It's more a matter of experience as well as raw untrained profeciency, and that has diminishing returns.

#

Even then-habits picked up by a properly raised, then trained, soldier; Simply couldn't be learned by an indoctrinated child soldier.

ruby canopy
#

That’s why in the Caucasus region even as low a population that is there, they regularly produce the best freestyle wrestlers and judo practitioners. They are all trained from childhood

#

Top 100 freestyle wrestlers in the world and like 10 are from that region

empty bloom
#

Cool. Does that help them fire a rifle in anger?

ruby canopy
#

What?

empty bloom
#

It's a different skill set entirely, is what I'm saying. There's more to being a good soldier than judo.

ruby canopy
#

I’m using that as an example of training a skill from childhood

#

Things become 2nd nature

empty bloom
#

I'm aware.

#

I'm saying that there's a lot more to soldiering.

ruby canopy
#

Yes. But the IIs and IIIs were trained in everything there is to know about soldiering

#

History, tactics, shooting

empty bloom
#

Which realllllly isn't realistically how that works, but as I said, Halo has a nasty habit of inaccurately portraying and 'cleaning' the concept of agoges.

ruby canopy
#

As far as accounts go from other Greek states. The Spartans were the best soldiers in a 1:1 comparison

#

It may have been propaganda, but that is first hand account

empty bloom
#

After years of misinformation, constant laconophilia, and knowledge that the despotic state of Sparta was good at PR.

#

Also, 1:1 doesn't mean much.

ruby canopy
#

They were even feared in wrestling tournaments among other city states

ruby canopy
empty bloom
#

Again, seriously, it's a known documented phenomanon.

#

Most tales about Sparta were not written by Spartans.

#

They were written by people who idolized the Spartans. Well before historic accountability was a thing.

#

It's why laconophilia is highly criticized as a belief.

prisma sierra
#

I feel like only the idea of them being warriors from birth and their name is the only thing Halo took. Because Spartans have use any weaponry and in trained in lots of combat forms.... I'm guessing. Meanwhile the Ancient Spartans would lose to ranged weapons

ruby canopy
#

That’s the case for any ancient philosopher. Jesus, Lao tzu, Socrates

empty bloom
#

What's known that isn't lauding them, is that the agoge was a horrific behavior, they didn't actually cast babies into a pit when they were 'unfit'.

#

They regularly killed slaves for sport.

prisma sierra
#

I hope the UNSC doesn't do that

empty bloom
#

Well, they do throw kids into servitude against their will or under coercion.

ruby canopy
#

Everyone

empty bloom
prisma sierra
#

They tried making the IIIs more morally acceptable. Which is why I really like the IIIs

empty bloom
#

The IIIs... Really aren't a good benchmark.

prisma sierra
#

You got teams like Noble team

ruby canopy
empty bloom
#

They're only barely more acceptable, or maybe worse, depending on perspective.

ruby canopy
#

We’re talking like 7,000 Greeks vs 100,000-250,000 Persians

empty bloom
prisma sierra
#

I mean they had the choice of orphanage or kill aliens

empty bloom
#

I'm talking about the Battle of Leuctra.

empty bloom
#

See, this is the crap I mean when I say how annoying it is that Halo tries to make 'clean' agoges. It makes people think the concept works.

empty bloom
ruby canopy
empty bloom
#

Still lost.

#

And that battle is recognized as what got the ball rolling.

ruby canopy
#

It was a major point, but it was going downhill before that battle

empty bloom
#

Furthermore, the strict and ludicrous requirements on service also ultimately crippled, and ultimately destroyed them.

Sounds kinda familiar to the IIs, really.

prisma sierra
#

Anyone else dislikes the idea of an armorless Spartan like Ilsa Zane

empty bloom
#

She isn't armorless.

prisma sierra
#

I mean the idea for her augmentation

#

Super Spartans or something

empty bloom
#

It was a dumb idea. I figure she'd have been given armor anyways.

ruby canopy
empty bloom
#

They were good, once, because they had no similarly famous competition, and now their legend outstrips their practicality and their real capabilities.

#

Sad fate, really. To be remembered as better than you really were.

ruby canopy
#

That’s what we’re comparing. How the soldiers are trained. Sure it isn’t sustainable numbers wise. But if we’re doing a 1:1 comparison that training makes the best soldiers

empty bloom
#

There's also a ton of factors going into it, soooooo I could also just take the piss and say "Yeah, a 4v4 is basically a meaningless theater for this"

#

For both parties it's basically judging fishes by treeclimbing.

#

Like, what kind of 4v4? What does that prove? What range? What field? What distance? Which individuals? When? What equipment? What's the objective? What's the weather? Did Spartan James eat his wheaties this morning?

ruby canopy
#

It’s all kind of meaningless if you put it that way. No culture or society in history has lasted forever or even that long really

empty bloom
#

Yeah, no crap it's pointless, just like the fact it's pointless to powerscale IIs to IIIs to IVs and why I'm more than willing to Hindenberg the conversation going that way.

prisma sierra
#

I wouldn't say Spartans were the greatest warriors tho. It's just you got stories like 300 men holding back a million Persians

ruby canopy
empty bloom
#

Which forgets the massive contribution by other greek forces, of course, because... Well, it sounds cooler to say '300 Spartans'

empty bloom
ruby canopy
empty bloom
#

For example; I'd 100% give a fireteam of IVs who were all former pilots in the HCW the W in an aerospace fighter battle.

#

IIs didn't fly nearly as much, and thus wouldn't be as skilled or practiced.

#

Raising behind-line militia and guerilla group in order to take out a major outpost via coordination? I'd trust Spartan Eklund to be capable of doing a better job than a II fireteam all by her lonesome, because it was her job the entire HCW, instead of fireteam ops with limited support and no guerrilla support and no practical knowledge for training other units.

#

And sure, they could retcon again and again and say "Achtually IIs are just the bestest at X or Y", but realistically they can't be trained in field-specific things nearly as readily as IVs were. They might grasp the concepts but not the nuances.

prisma sierra
#

Almost everyone can be a Spartan now

empty bloom
#

Hell, Tanaka's only real known competition in terms of Spartans that are known for being near Halsey's level in terms of inherent ability to work with technology is Spartan Team Yellow... Which we know nothing about.

ruby canopy
empty bloom
# prisma sierra Almost everyone can be a Spartan now

If you fit within a narrow genetic profile, are an extremely capable and knowledgeable soldier, marine, airman, or sailor, have prior military service, have committed a major valorous act (Or had someone to vet for you), and can pass a training regimen known to be exhausting to even people like Buck.

#

"Everyone".

unique rune
#

"Almost everyone" only in the sense that you don't need to fit super strict genetic compatibility screening that gave you about a 50% chance of coming out largely unscathed lmao

empty bloom
#

Like, the belief seems to be that Fred's the best at melee, but like... Why? Because he fiddled with a knife? He isn't even the hardest punching member of Blue Team.

#

The belief seems to be that Kelly sprints the fastest, but she's just one of a few users of Hermes, so clearly someone can be in the same weight catagory-and she was only ever the fastest of the IIs.

prisma sierra
#

Do we know if Agryna joined the UNSC

empty bloom
#

... Considering she's a Spartan, yes.

prisma sierra
#

Before being a Spartan

empty bloom
#

It's generally required. But we know next to nothing about her, is the problem.

prisma sierra
#

Because that was her in that cinematic right. That was like 2552?

empty bloom
#

We don't even know how old she is.

prisma sierra
#

I like Spartan Thorne alot. He should keep his helmet on

empty bloom
ruby canopy
#

Not that they would need to, but for any unforeseen complications

empty bloom
#

Maybe, maybe not. IVs are also omni-trained, but the training for them is more fresh and less 'experimental' by II training regimen standards.

#

Not to mention-it's informed by 25 years plus of Spartan best practices derived from and trained by Spartan IIs and IIIs, so they also have a lot of omni-training that says what they shouldn't try, because the IIs and IIIs also know what worked.

#

So that's also something to consider-Assuming the IIs and IIIs are trainers worth a damn, at least.

#

A real life analogue would be a Navy SEAL who was a former mechanic getting trained as a SEAL. They're still gonna stack bodies nice and good, but they're probably also going to be better at fixing a car than the guy who taught them.

ruby canopy
wispy pewter
#

that one Asian guy who was a doctor, navy seal and astronaut

prisma sierra
empty bloom
stoic hamlet
empty bloom
#

This is a certified "We should reuse the IIIs for something" moment

stoic hamlet
#

No but like, of all the things they would have the preteen hyper indoctrinated super soldiers do specifically to keep them out of the spotlight… you make them spies.

Literally a decade (just about) of training and preparing wasted… for some reason.

prisma sierra
#

Umaugmented humans can wear SPI armor right?

unique rune
#

Yes

prisma sierra
#

I mean them being spies... You're kinda right

#

Any normal ONI agent could do it

stoic hamlet
#

But actually though; re the ancient Spartans:

The Spartans were exceptionally trained… but not actually that well diversified compared to their peer city states, like the Athenians.

It doesn’t matter how long or hard those Spartans trained if the Athenian phalanx is just as well armed and armoured. It’s never about the individual in those fights (and even if it was, they’d both die to the same hits and etc).

The Spartans are glamorized, but only by those who don’t actually know much about the period.

#

Same with say, the Norse.

They’re glamorized but most of their actual claim to fame comes from their trading, not their raiding.

#

The reason most know of them as raiders is because they raided poorly defended areas - like monasteries and outlying villages along the coasts, usually with said monasteries filled with people who could write. And so the people just raided wrote about those guys who just raided them.

prisma sierra
#

I feel like the idea of being trained from childhood is the only thing Halo copied. And their status as incredible warriors

rapid river
# stoic hamlet No but like, of all the things they would have the preteen hyper indoctrinated s...

Not to mention the whole "we can't operate too long without smoothers, or we'll start seeing dinosaurs"... and then put them behind enemy lines for years at a time.

I still view the Ferrets operating during the Created conflict with seemingly no issues with Smoother problems a cop out, especially when five minutes on the Ark they were like "we're almost out of smoothers. Are those whales flying in the sky?".

#

(There are actually flying space whales at the Ark)

empty bloom
#

Let me grab my message.

#

There's plenty of hard factors and soft factors involved that make IVs better, but people see 'less strong' and fail to see the 'out of armor' clarification-or worse, misinterpret it.

carmine sleet
abstract yarrow
#

So what’s everybody’s thoughts on Treason Season? thinkingchief banished 🔨

wispy pewter
#

what

abstract yarrow
#

The new Banished armour stuff.

prisma sierra
#

Traitor Spartans would not have happened if they picked people correctly

empty bloom
#

Eh. I've softened a lot on the subject.

#

Zane literally went crazy, Randall went native (technically he'd be a deserter), Scruggs and Mickey were both converted via insider threat.

wispy pewter
#

so they knew Ilsa Zane lost some marbles and kept her around

empty bloom
#

She was discharged and given to ONI for safekeeping, which she subsequently escaped from. So no, they didn't keep her around.

obsidian thistle
#

(A factiod that few remember)

empty bloom
wispy pewter
#

is Atriox built diferent or what he survived a few punches and an uppercut from Chief

prisma sierra
#

Normal brutes would have died

carmine sleet
#

Gameplay isn't 1 to 1 with lore

abstract yarrow
#

Well some of the lore stuff they have seems to say the Outer Colonies or at least Venezia and something called the New Colonial Alliance have sided with the Banished. Seems to be more than a few rogue Spartans.

Some of the armour descriptions even talk about them finding inferior ways of producing gene enhanced soldiers and manufacturing knock off Spartan armour.

obsidian thistle
#

Venezia is kinda gearing up to be a mid-level threat in the Galaxy not gonna lie.

#

Ties to the Banished (though not being part of it)

#

Janissaries (their Spartan equivalent)

#

Using stolen Created tech and Banished/Covenant stuff to make armor.

#

Armories on the planet

#

Venezia is kinda in a gold rush period.

wispy pewter
#

why do I hate that idea so much

obsidian thistle
#

Ok maybe I should have worded it better.

#

Venezia is gearing up to be taken seriously by other factions.

#

(I'm just glad 343i never went the Mass Effect Omega route)

prisma sierra
#

I wish Spartan 1337 was canon because that dude fist bumped one of them

ruby canopy
#

As far as the math goes. Spartans in halo are too strong, like the math doesn’t make sense strong

#

Theoretically a Spartan can literally pick a hunter up and throw it

orchid kettle
#

At least physically

#

People kinda forget how in the original version of Fall of Reach, all the IIs were running together as one unit, and they were largely fighting Grunts and the occasional Jackal for almost the entirety of the war

empty bloom
#

I do not miss those days.

orchid kettle
#

And in that situation, of course the IIs would have faced very few casualties

#

They were only "invincible" because the Covenant wasn't even really giving it its all, and the second Hunters and Elites started popping up is also when Nylund chose to shatter the image of Spartan invincibility

ruby canopy
#

I do prefer they are stronger than the majority of elites and matched by only the strongest

#

But also even in the original fall of reach, their feats out of armor still suggest they were crazy strong

#

It never made sense to evenly match them with elites from the start

#

Unless elite’s biology gives them incredibly, and I mean incredibly, dense muscle and bones

#

And evolution would never make something so strong unless their planets gravity was just uncanny

orchid kettle
#

They've apparently recently confirmed that the Elite combat harness makes them stronger

#

It was something brought up in the 2009 encyclopedia nobody liked because it was full of errors, so it was mainly ignored

#

but in Outcasts, an Elite in "Sanctum's Hide" mentions how the weird skinsuit thing they're all wearing lacks energy shields and the ability to augment their strength

#

And its weird for him to lament the absence of that latter feature if Elite combat harnesses didnt offer it

orchid kettle
#

Mendez says Chief and friends can lift about three times their body size. If he's talking about a bench press, that actually only means Chief is tied with the world record. Not so much super human as just peak human strength

#

yet later on, Chief will kick a trainer in heavy Mark I Hrunting armor, and the man lands in a crumpled heap eight meters away

#

And assuming Mark I Hrunting weighs anything like Mark IV MJOLNIR, if not more

#

thats pretty wild. I dunno about you, but I cant kick my bench press maximum a distance of eight meters

#

It may honestly even be heavier than that, given recent artwork of the Mark I Hrunting that makes it look really THICC

#

Its pretty bulky looking in Halsey's journal as well

orchid kettle
#

So yeah, going by the hard numbers, it feels like what Mendez describes are supersoldiers who are "super" because they're basically peak human levels in all categories

#

When you know, the bench pressing world record setter isn't going to be winning any 100m dashes

#

Nor is an Olympic sprinter going to be able to lift as much as your average weight lifter

#

The Spartan-IIs are expected to get stronger, as Mendez mentions that they have the kids eating 5 square meals a day to bulk them up, but Chief kicking that trainer in Mark I happens like two minutes after Mendez says that

#

so I doubt Chief has acquired the gainz yet

ruby canopy
orchid kettle
#

It does kinda make you wonder why that one Elite in Silent Storm is so blown away by MJOLNIR if all their harnesses effectively do the same thing

#

Except even more because they had active camo and energy shields before Spartans did

ruby canopy
#

Also the feat of them ripping a machine apart with their bare hands is just so weird

#

We’d have to do a lot of estimation, but as far as a lot of theories go. To be able to do that requires the strength of a hydraulic press

#

In their hands

orchid kettle
#

I am reminded of how in Divine Wind, its mentioned the gammas could bend the barrel of a rifle to prove their superhumanness

#

While Thel attempted to do the same with Jai's battle rifle as they struggled

#

Though it didnt seem like he was successful or didnt have the time?

#

But I remember in Cole Protocol, it had Thel freak out because Jai was as strong as him

ruby canopy
#

Yeah that one is up in the air. And I do remember that part of the book. I always think about jai and thel matching strength

#

The lore makes my head spin sometimes

orchid kettle
#

I believe in Dirt as well, Gage says something to the effect of

#

"Woah, the Spartan was so cool! He was the equal of any Elite!"

#

or something to that effect

#

You could argue as well that Spartans only being peak human, and uplifted to superhuman with their armor could also help to explain how Forge could have a little tussle with the Arbiter of Halo Wars 1

#

Since who knows, maybe the old armor of the arbiter sucks and its strength-multiplying abilities aren't as potent

#

And that's why whatshisface can be tackled by a marine who's just really big and strong

#

Or how you can have stuff like Dutch snapping an Elite's neck with his thunder thighs alone

#

I dunno, having the powerscale toned down across the board feels healthier long term for the series, imo

ruby canopy
#

I agree. It’s gotta be toned down. Otherwise by gen 4 armor we should be seeing godlike abilities

#

That’s another weird comparison. Jai matching with thel but forge can tackle that massive elite. It’s all over the place

empty bloom
#

I always figured that they upgraded Arbiter armor when it got destroyed utterly.

#

So Ripa's might not have been providing the same benefits that Thel's did, and figured he'd take his time with Forge-that plus taking a full mag to his hand likely lessened the blow if I remember the scene right?

ruby canopy
#

That’s a fair point. I wish we could get some numbers with the combat harness multiplier

#

If that’s the case it’s gotta be a pretty good multiplier, at least 2x I would think

empty bloom
#

I always figured it was like 1.25-1.5 for most suits.

#

Nowhere near MJOLNIR, but elites are already really strong; it'd make the sleeveless look in 4/5 more justifiable.

#

Maybe some Elites get a better strength boon due to more advanced materials in better officer and up type armor rigs.

#

Because an authoritarian religious state would likely give the best kit to the best.

#

Which would explain why Spartans struggle against Zealots and such, but seem to wipe through majors/officers and below in droves.

orchid kettle
#

It's definitely one of those situations where its kinda hard to tell if a character's strength comes from the rank of their gear, or if they have that rank just from being a really good soldier

#

Ripa vs Forge is really this one outlier and you could argue that the way the fight pans out, Forge was never really a match and Ripa just choked the easy 1v1

carmine sleet
#

Ripa just wanted to toy with his food, which ultimately was his downfall

empty bloom
#

I figured he broke at least four ribs when Ripa gutpunched him.

orchid kettle
#

Yeah I kinda like to think Forge was basically dying after that sternum blow

#

and thats why he volunteers to be left behind with the slipspace drive

carmine sleet
#

Aye, I can buy that

#

Didn't want the Spartans slowed down by having to carry his injured body

abstract yarrow
#

Just playing Stellaris and um. Yeah, I got that sequel to Halo 5 after all. 🤣cortana

empty bloom
pallid knoll
empty bloom
#

Nobody knows.

abstract yarrow
# pallid knoll what happens to roland?

😄 Not playing as a UNSC faction so no Roland although apparently there is a good robot who helps you. I went individualistic robots but with syncretic. Normally a second species but this robots that’s as close as you can get perfect Geth/Quarian ending.

If you look at the books. They seem to be ticking off all the plot threads. Epitaph did way more than I expected. Update on Vale & Arbiter. The next one looks to be Created themed with Sloan. So maybe they’ll address Roland there?

empty bloom
#

Well, now I'm kinda hoping that Ilsa Zane gets partnered with Iratus.

bronze prawn
#

was/is a flood cure possible ?

#

ancient humanity and san'shyuum had "advances", the forerruners had the composer but ...

unique rune
#

no

empty bloom
#

It's explicitly laid out that it's not a thing that can exist.

marble lion
#

No, there's no cure. Ancient humans had tried or attempted to create a cure to the Flood. Same with the Forerunners, even they couldn't find a cure despite the Forerunner's advance technology they still can't create a cure. It may take centuries for cure to be found and made if current day humanity does find and make it.

prisma sierra
#

By gen 4 Mjolnir we will get Iron Man suit stuff

prisma sierra
#

Outer colonies are crazy. They mad at the UNSC and want freedom. After the war the UNSC Isn't there and they complain the UNSC isn't there and joins an Alien faction..... That eats humans

empty bloom
rapid river
#

The Insurrection isn't beating the allegations.

#

I do think there is a good angle to explore with Venezia's and the NCA's alliance with the Banished. After all, these factions need to be able to realise their goals somehow and that they don't live solely in the UEG's backyard but are part of a broader galaxy where they will have to interact with alien factions one way or the other.

#

That said, aligning yourself to the Banished isn't a good look if you are trying to argue you are benevolent and on the "good" side of the conflict.

empty bloom
#

And... I mean, the banished are kinda being shunted into being the kitchen sink of factions. It kinda sucks.

prisma sierra
#

I personally believe if you join a faction that is an enemy of humanity you need to be nuked

spark pivot
rapid river
#

The setup for factions like Venezia and the New Colonial Alliance joining the Banished has been there since the release of the Official Spartan Field Manual revealing that the Banished are spreading their influence across Human criminal enterprises, and even the HW2 Phoenix Logs mention how the Banished made deals in the black markets of Venezia.

So really this is really the culmination of that development, and it males sense for these factions to align themselves with the Banished, as they have some cultural overlap (as violent, anti-authoritarian arseholed) and see the Banished as a good means to further their goals.

spark pivot
rapid river
#

And humans in the Banished is a very interesting concept to explore, one I'm glad we're seeing more of.

prisma sierra
#

They are villains

spark pivot
#

They can be bargained with

prisma sierra
#

Like

spark pivot
prisma sierra
#

Ruining their reputation

spark pivot
#

And s4's aint s2s or 3s

prisma sierra
#

I really hope they skip trough this. Spartans are supposed to be incredible soldiers not some taped together pirated version

rapid river
prisma sierra
#

Yeah. But then they added lore like Banished made "Spartans" with Alibaba Mjolnir

#

Almost like fan fiction

unique rune
#

I mean. It's not like augmentations are exclusively a human thing. And 343's been sticking in tidbits about non-UNSC human augmentations since the flavor text in Halo 5's armor sets.

rapid river
#

And didn't we get a Chronicle providing heavy implications of corporations like Optican playing around with Rumbledrugs for human augmentation?

#

And its not the Banished making Spartans per se, but rather the Venezian militia, who are "loaning" to the Banished their supersoldiers.

#

A subtle, yet noteworthy difference.

empty bloom
empty bloom
bronze prawn
#

venezia ....

#

that planet when all species gather ? to drink, play and other things

prisma sierra
rapid river
empty bloom
#

I think rumbledrugs were alluded to in Cole Protocol, and confirmed in Halo Evolutions.

#

Buuuut really, most UNSC medical tech is a 'superdrug'.

prisma sierra
#

So they could have made MC fight human Spartans in Infinite

empty bloom
#

Maybe?

prisma sierra
#

Missed chance

stoic hamlet
#

They aren’t really Spartans, either.

They’re super soldiers, but not Spartans. It’s a necessary distinction.

#

Even Zane, technically, it could be argued that isn’t really a Spartan.

rapid river
#

And looking at Zane's Halopedia article, her """rank""" is Spartan.

Weird, considering Zane defected before the official establishment of the Spartan Branch.

stoic hamlet
#

Oh I mean, she’s considered a Spartan.

But she’s in a weird sort of grey area, IMO.

prisma sierra
#

And she has armor now

#

Has the Unsc tried creating genetic super humans?

unique rune
#

Considering that would be an even bigger ethical can of worms than any of the Spartan programs...

wispy pewter
#

Eugenics but halo

empty bloom
carmine sleet
#

"Yeah but Spartans saved the human race" I hear in the distance as someone will no doubt try and defend Halsey using children

prisma sierra
#

Well that's her argument when she was being questioned in Spartan Ops

wispy pewter
#

so Halsey doesn't think Spartan IVs are Spartans

#

hmm atleast she thinks Thorne is close

carmine sleet
prisma sierra
#

The Spartan IIs were told right

versed helm
#

ultimately I think that’s what makes the Spartan-II’s, and by extension Dr. Halsey, so interesting on a writing level, is the moral dilemma of: do the ends justify the means, in this case when it comes to preventing the end of humanity by the hands of an alien empire set on purging humanity from any space they can find

obviously the answer would be not always, and in the case of the Spartan-II’s, it’s hard to argue with the results. but you also certainly can’t excuse the nature of their creation, either, and how completely unethical and disturbing it was on almost every level

wispy pewter
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man I want more red team

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Jerome in Gen 3 when

fallen fox
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huh

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hey guys, question.

IS the gladius heavy corvette Atmosphere capable?

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(idk why my original message kept getting deleted :P)

prisma sierra
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I'm guessing it has some sort of anti gravity plate

empty bloom
agile raven
wispy pewter
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Chief is too nice

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he should have not respected that banished boss

agile raven
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Why not?

bronze prawn
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im pretty sure what banished, specially the brutes under his command do to human prisioners

wispy pewter
bronze prawn
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is not to be respect

agile raven
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I’m not sure you understand him as a character if you’re saying that. His time with Cortana has allowed him to unlock his emotional side it’s a rather broken side I’ll say but combine that with his machine like militaristic mindset it makes perfect sense that he would respect any soldier even one of the banished

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Now of course he’s always had emotions we see a sense of humor occasionally especially in the books and some sadness but it doesn’t start to heavily mix with his militaristic side until halo 4 but I would say we saw it some in 3 as well

wispy pewter
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"BOO!"

bronze prawn
agile raven
#

Indeed 😂

versed helm
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If Arbiter and Atriox fought, who do you think would win?

carmine sleet
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Whoever the writer decides needs to win

wild violet
empty bloom
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(It's me. I'm who won.)

wispy pewter
carmine sleet
wild violet
carmine sleet
#

Comic book writers have done it that way for years, same can be done in other mediums

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Like, how else do you establish someone is a threat to the main protagonist? You have them beat up the protagonist or someone known to be the protagonist's equal

wispy pewter
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if an unaugmented human defeated some arbiter then Atriox would have zero issues

empty bloom
#

Not all Arbiters are Arbitrated equally.

agile raven
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FORGE

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not just any guy

carmine sleet
agile raven
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Plus watch the cutscene and it’s obvious how he won

agile raven
orchid kettle
carmine sleet
fair hazel
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You guys know context of a fight matters as well? Ripa was toying around too much with Forge. He wouldn't have done that to someone he thought was stronger or in another scenario. Their previous encounter made him toy around more. Like, he purposely didn't go at it at his full capabilities

empty bloom
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Silly Pins, this is Halo. Everyone is always acting 100% to the optimum at all times unless it needs to be used to explain Chief's losses

flint gyro
#

🖕

last anchor
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We put space battles to shame.

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Also when did we add a middle finger emote? Thats neat.

stoic hamlet
#

I’m surprised the server allows it.

empty bloom
#

Yeah, IVs are a fun subject.

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A lot of people don't really think of their implications because the implementation thus far has been haphazard.

wispy pewter
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thorne really is a great IV character

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he just needs to keep his helmet on more often

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chief keeps his helmet on at all times

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eirther he is smart or just shy

prisma sierra
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Master Chief is just built different

empty bloom
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Never had a helmet, for most of the first half of Spartan Ops, right?

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He lost his helmet because he didn't have it on when he got dragged through the device.

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Like, they didn't bring him a spare when they found him, he basically got trapped in a cycle of continued deployments without it against his will and they didn't have time to get new ones.