#lore-and-universe

1 messages · Page 65 of 1

wary phoenix
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(serious question) Do the covenant tax their citizens?

last anchor
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I believe they have religious tithes, as most theocracies do

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Which presumably operate similarly to taxes

latent pewter
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What do they even use as money?

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I’m gonna assume some form of ‘credit’

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That seems to be the norm of sci-fi currencies

empty bloom
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Paid via either electronic banking or physical tokens.

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Not a joke, btw, they're literally called gekz

latent pewter
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Huh, interesting

empty bloom
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Apparently 80k gekz is considered a worthy bounty for a Ket Battlecruiser, which sounds almost insultingly low.

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Compared to a 50 gekz bribe paid to a grunt?

stoic hamlet
tribal trench
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thats how many it takes to make good music you know

royal tartan
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Haha

royal tartan
sonic lagoon
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What is covenant currency backed by?

quaint rover
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Threats probably

prisma sierra
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I have a dream that one day the covenant and humans can live side by side in peace 🕊️

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I want a pet Unggoy

gusty star
carmine sleet
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My guess is they'd prefer not to acknowledge that about the Grunts

sonic lagoon
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Do hybrids exist in halo?

carmine sleet
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If you mean between different species, no

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So like, there's no hybrid Grunt/Jackal creature

sonic lagoon
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Do gangs exist in Halo?

carmine sleet
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Like street gangs? Yes but they aren't exactly important

sonic lagoon
carmine sleet
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Probably?

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Gangs and gang warfare ain't something explored in Halo

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It's more about grander scale conflicts

sonic lagoon
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Yes but do they fight the police in Halo? Also do the Covenant have a police force?

bronze prawn
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he has made entire gangs dissapear

sonic lagoon
carmine sleet
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Six wasn't deployed against street gangs

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That's big overkill

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He was deployed against the Covenant and human terrorist groups

last anchor
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Most human organized crime is...organized.
Refined.
Usually imbedded in stuff like corporations.

Most ground-level criminals usually end up getting mulched by the cops since, as we see with the NMPD, the police forces of the UEG are simply smaller Marines.

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Recycled weaponry and gear due to asset limitations, or marked response on the weaponization of American police forces? You decide

carmine sleet
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Throw in some corruption too, since the NMPD was corrupt

last anchor
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Aye.

sonic lagoon
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Do any non-human police forces exist?

stoic hamlet
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The Covenant Ministries technically count?

Sangheili keeps maintain men at arms, a la the feudal lords of earth, but they’re not really police in the modern constabulary sense.

obsidian magnet
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Just finished reading The Fall of Reach

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I think this book sorta retcons or counters what actually happened on Reach between the game itself and what Eric Nylund wrote. Kinda confusing to be honest

stoic hamlet
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343 have done their best (well….) they’ve attempted to patch the two and have done a pretty good job, overall.

obsidian magnet
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Either way, I’ll accept both sides because it always ends up the same: they find the Halo ring and Chief is the last hope, thus gives the badass Halo CE mood that you’re important to the war and need to discover Halo to beat the Covenant (I.e., start the trilogy)

last anchor
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To be entirely fair much of Fall of Reach is set up leading TOO the actual Fall.
Its only the last couple chapters that cause particular issues with the timeline.

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Chiefs training, the battles of Chi Ceti and Sigma Octanus IV, the introduction of MJLONIR, all of that happens well within time for things to operate.
Theres like a 25 year gap between the death of Sam and Sigma isnt there?

obsidian magnet
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Yeah the Fall of Reach doesn’t happen until the last 40 pages of the novel

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It was just building it up for that moment rather than what happened

empty bloom
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Like, that is a hell of a decision to make right before you start making your big multimedia franchise.

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Very cart-before-horse.

last anchor
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The early 2000s were very funny like that.
It WORKED, though, which means MS tried to do it with everything else they launched too.
Ex; theres a Brute Force tie-in novel out there somewhere.

empty bloom
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Pretty sure it was policy to do it with everything at the time, not just Halo.

stoic hamlet
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A lot of games did it.

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Honestly I miss the tie in novel craze.

last anchor
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The Resistance books were surprisingly good

royal tartan
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Which are sangheili peacekeepers

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Women serve in it too

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They mainly serve domestic duties

last anchor
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Fanon is fanon

wispy pewter
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my fanon is that the UNSC made a dozen more infinity clas super carriers

wise snow
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My fanon is Linda is actually my wife

prisma sierra
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Yes my weakness are redheads

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Palmer ain't so bad but she's kinda mean

haughty ember
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well thats enough lore for me

prisma sierra
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Master Chief is the saviour of mankind

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Weird there isn't human cults worshipping the green robot

empty bloom
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Not really? It'd be like worshipping the scientist who cures cancer or something. He's documented enough for people to know a lot of his actions depending on other people to even come close to succeeding.

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Halo's universe generally seems to do away with a solid chunk of the Halo fanbase's typically poorly reasoned and narrow-minded perspective towards who John is, so usually Chief isn't regarded as someone who should be a gratingly misattributed jesus allegory in-universe.

carmine sleet
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It'd also go against allot of what the original trilogy (Mainly H2) was about if there were people worshipping Chief as a god

wispy pewter
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if I were in the halo universe I'd be starting a Master Chief fan account on instagram

carmine sleet
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He definitely has fans, but no doubt they're not as fanatical as some people can be about celebrities are in the current day

wispy pewter
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is the UEG a democracy? are they capitalistic?

empty bloom
stoic hamlet
carmine sleet
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Yeah

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Like, it would make sense for the UNSC to use him in propaganda, especially in the post war
"Sign up for the UNSC Navy and you too could save the universe like Master Chief"
But that's being done for a specific purpose, to recruit fresh meat- I mean new soldiers to defend UNSC/UEG interests

royal tartan
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I wish we could talk about other lores

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Like trenchbirds bird lore

empty bloom
carmine sleet
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Basically

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Though that second but would be in the small print

wispy pewter
empty bloom
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Eh, 76 trainees out of a program that had a production rate in the low hundreds every year with a conservative estimate isn't that bad.

carmine sleet
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Good thing that wasn't the only training facility

empty bloom
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It's not like the II program that lost like half its surviving number in a single plane crash

carmine sleet
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Like sure, having Spartans die isn't good but it'd be horrible to have only one training site when you have a super soldier program that's got plenty of consenting volunteers and the funding to make them super soldiers

wispy pewter
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Spartan IVs are easy to make right

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they can just produce like 10000 of them

empty bloom
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Easier.

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It's a common misconception that easier means it's easy as dirt.

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Like how cheaper is misconstrued as being cheap as dirt.

prisma sierra
empty bloom
prisma sierra
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They had early advantage starting as kids

empty bloom
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Realistically, that isn't as big of a boon as people think. Spartans IRL, from the agoge, weren't actually that much higher quality than more standard soldiers of other greek states for example.

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And there's evidence to suggest that 'child soldiers' raised in such a way would be less effective than their adult soldier peers-less well-rounded and less-innately capable of picking up cues that could save their lives.

prisma sierra
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I thought they have superior modifications since Halsey created them

empty bloom
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According to Halsey, lmao

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Who is a known narcissist.

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There's more to being good than just punching harder or thinking faster. Having a wider knowledge pool and different types of strength can be more effective.

prisma sierra
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I really like Spartan IIIs as well since they can be as short as me

empty bloom
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The average height's around mid 6' for them at a minimum.

carmine sleet
empty bloom
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Most Halo fans don't.

prisma sierra
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Yeah it's wrong to use children. But they did save humanity

empty bloom
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Not gonna lie, the fact people unironically fail to see exactly why that makes the II and III programs downright sad and unconscionable regardless of their perceived upsides (And no, Chief being a statistical anomaly is not one) is very annoying to me.

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Freaking wee babby just-hatched-from-the-egg Trenchbird picked that up the first time he read a first edition Fall of Reach.

carmine sleet
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Aye. Like, my favourite team of Spartans are from the IIs, but that doesn't mean I'm ok with them being child soldiers

empty bloom
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Now she exists to suffer the people who think that child soldiers are good because Halo did it.

prisma sierra
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Kinda like the ancient Spartans

carmine sleet
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Like, no joke, this is basically the face I make whenever someone defends the child soldier aspect of the IIs and IIIs

IMG_2266.jpg
empty bloom
carmine sleet
# prisma sierra Kinda like the ancient Spartans

That still doesn't make it ok. Kids should be having fun, playing with one another under the sun, getting into trouble with their parents over something that won't matter in a few hours, not being trained to kill

empty bloom
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Of course, the Moron Lobe types don't want to hear that crap.

prisma sierra
empty bloom
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Yeeeaaaaah, real Spartans were uh.

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Really, really bad.

prisma sierra
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The Spartan IIIs were war orphans though right. I don't know if it was voluntary tho

carmine sleet
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That doesn't make it suddenly ok to use kids

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If anything that's even worse in some aspects

empty bloom
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People say they are, but most people don't really understand how 'voluntary' works regarding their situation.

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Like, you're still pressuring a war orphan into being a combatant. "Sure, but they said I could do it!" is not a defense.

carmine sleet
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And the kid saying "I wanna kill the people that killed my parents" isn't either

empty bloom
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You dragged them all to a planet, then told them what you wanted to do to them, and if they stayed they got signed up. That isn't 'volunteering'. That's coercion.

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Honestly, I still think the reason they missed the Orphaned Locke (He was orphaned on the same planet as B312) was because Locke was angry at the UNSC for failing his world.

prisma sierra
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Unsc kinda shady

carmine sleet
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So are most governments

empty bloom
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It's funny because they exist as both terrible (Spartan programs, overpressuring outer colonies), and also objectively benevolent (They didn't really throw planets under the bus and died in droves to protect the outer colonies despite also screwing them over).

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It's a very strange combination.

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Like, sure, the COG fought the Locust, but they also caused the Locust and were outright fascist even then. The leader of the UNSC outright stepped down and let the UEG elect a President again after the HCW, conversely.

prisma sierra
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What are the reasons the insurrections happened tho

empty bloom
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Basically, they asked for and pressued too much out of the outer colonies.

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And old and new grudges kept getting made until a boil over point was hit.

stoic hamlet
empty bloom
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Hmhm.

obsidian thistle
stoic hamlet
empty bloom
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:>

obsidian magnet
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Who’s Marvin Mabuto?

hot zodiac
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One hard-core son of a -blam!-.

last anchor
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Deitz flotsam. Alongside the Flood weilding wrenches

prisma sierra
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Locke's armor almost looks like a Crysis suit

wispy pewter
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yeah looks cool and all

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but the Mk IV still the best

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fits the unsc aesthetic more

carmine sleet
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The goals of Gen II Mjolnir were different to Gen I, which allowed for more variance in how the armour looks

wispy pewter
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they come in different colors as well

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red might be the worse since it's kinda bright

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Vale is kinda cool tho

carmine sleet
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Gen I can come in multiple colours too, Spartans using colours they choose isn't something that only came about with Gen II

wispy pewter
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man I always thought the green was the standard issue armor.

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black team is black

empty bloom
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Course, I also dislike Mark IV, so

obsidian thistle
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GEN1 is like the early years of PC development. Tuning it till its actually ok/decent.

GEN2 is more akin to specialised computers of said development end point in GEN1.

GEN3 is akin when computers became viable to the public and other groups to make. GEN3 becoming more standards that could be followed. Some may follow these standards. Others may not (them being more Mjolnir or Mjolnir adjacent at that point)

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I always say that in regards to how Mjolnir developed

empty bloom
# wispy pewter they come in different colors as well

MJOLNIR is likely a lot like real world armored vehicles in that it has a 'default paint scheme' when it leaves the factory, that color happening to be a shade of green. Though considering the paint chipping on Mark IV in Infinite by default is a desert tan, maybe not-or the models in Infinite got repainted constantly.

obsidian thistle
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If GEN4 becomes a thing... it would be just an update of standards

wispy pewter
empty bloom
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Not when it's getting levelled as a criticism

wispy pewter
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idk for me the Gen 7 looks less detailed

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I like the shade of green tho

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it's the same color as all the unsc vehicles

stoic hamlet
# carmine sleet Gen I can come in multiple colours too, Spartans using colours they choose isn't...

Mission dependant as well, like Silent Storm.

Though, at the same time, the canon/spartans have flip-flopped on it.

For example, Kelly’s shown as wearing blue armour in Collateral Damage… but her armour is described as black/charcoal in Silent Storm (like everyone else), and green in Oblivion

99% out of 100, I’d wager the Spartans would customize their armour for the mission, rather than go with personal choice in colours, assuming they had the opportunity.

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Last Light describes Fred as using cover and proper leapfrog tactics as second nature, to the point he does it subconsciously.

That’s not a mentality that allows you to wear bright red in an urban environment, or yellow in a snowy tundra, just because you like the colour.

last anchor
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So, theoretically, the black coating we see in Fortnite and Cinder Ring in Infinite is based on the Silent Storm-style stealthed coating?
Neat, never thought about that.

empty bloom
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:P

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Or bright cobalt in a canyon.

wispy pewter
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imagine a spartan chooses light pink

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maybe theres a limited selection. What about those Oni spartans. I hope they don't use bright colors for stealth missions lol

tropic forge
stoic hamlet
wispy pewter
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yeah I prefer the green

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imagine if Navy Seals irl could wear white or blue

stoic hamlet
carmine sleet
carmine sleet
sonic lagoon
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In a hypothetical scenario, how would the Covenant react to Kamino and the Kaminoans?

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Kaminoans and Prophets look very similar. I find their similarities and differences fascinating, like two related but separate cultures.

last anchor
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The Covenant would ask if they wanted to join their religious heriarchy.
The Kaminoans would say no.
And the planet would be boiled to the core because Star Wars defensive tech is dogwater.
Im pretty sure glassing a water planet is actually worse than glassing a rocky one because you get giant steam detonations that boils all life on the surface.

unique rune
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Would they even bother with glassing Kamino? All the water would make that incredibly difficult given that water is water.

Feels like they’d just settle for destroying the surface structures.

last anchor
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Cause why not.

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And also because we already saw the cities getting hammered by the Empire so we might as well get the Covenant showing them up.

carmine sleet
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I'd imagine Truth would want the cloning tech

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Because what's better than replacing the Elites with Brutes? Replacing them with genetically modified clone Brutes with chips that make them unwaveringly loyal to your every command

prisma sierra
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Imagine if the USS Enterprise made first contact with the Covenant. "We are from earth, in this corner of the galaxy"

empty bloom
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Oh, they'd die.

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Or be attacked and win either way

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It is funny though, the enterprise is pretty small by covenant ship standards IIRC

timber schooner
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imagine if blue team was still alive

carmine sleet
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They are

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Fred, Kelly and Linda aren't dead

timber schooner
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kellys in cryo sleep till they can heal her

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idk about fred and linda

carmine sleet
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You're confusing Kelly with Linda and we know they're all alive long after the Fall of Reach thanks to multiple novels and games confirming it

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They're in Halo 5 alongside Chief

royal tartan
carmine sleet
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No need to be rude to them for not knowing things

carmine sleet
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So this has gotta be Ilsa, right?

image0.jpg
last anchor
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Cant think of anyone else whos still alive.

dusty ferry
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unless its a new character

carmine sleet
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I doubt it, given the mention of Hunt the Truth

obsidian thistle
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As a side note

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Thats 100% a Banished "Spartan"

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Not a janissary

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Not an alt-augmented soldier

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But a Spartan

carmine sleet
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Maybe Ilsa managed to nab a set of Mark VII after Hunt the Truth and modded it with Banished equipment?

obsidian thistle
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Well its not out the question

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We know Mark VII was in use outside Infinity

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Its not Zeta exclusive

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And theres a lotta scattered Spartans

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And missing tech

tropic forge
obsidian thistle
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Why disappointing?

last anchor
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Too easy a route.
too open to the edgy nerds.

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Also, its not a Jannisary so, you know. No more lore on them from this

obsidian thistle
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Banished Spartans were bound to happen

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Maybe not a lot

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But some were bound to happen after the Created happened

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(Still curious if any joined the Created)

dusty ferry
last anchor
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We did not. And I am rather dissapointed we did not.

obsidian thistle
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Janisary is a random description to explain the non-Grunt armor last operation

empty bloom
stoic hamlet
empty bloom
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I like how almost all of the loreheads I know are actually more annoyed or dissappointed than happy with Banished Spartans being canon, lmao

stoic hamlet
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Should have been a Janissary.

empty bloom
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Really cements my opinion that it's a terrible idea.

stoic hamlet
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I’m so glad we’ve opened up the edgy pool again.

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Just, wonderful.

empty bloom
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Absolutely thrilling, really.

dusty ferry
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Yeah, it’s such a waste when they keep teasing us with weird other things

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I want new things darn it

empty bloom
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I mean hey if you want new we got uh

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...

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Tenrai... IV?

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And more Mark IV

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I guess

stoic hamlet
# empty bloom I like how almost all of the loreheads I know are actually more annoyed or dissa...

It’s just…. So unfortunate.

It’d be like…idk, you have a new group, a new culture even, say the Japanese, because they’re all the rage right now due to Shōgun.

And you hype up that they’re getting the treatment of a European Knight.

And you hear they have these cool things called “Samurai”, and they sound so neat.

Then for the flagship event that could give you more neat stuff on them you get… a defecting European Knight.

empty bloom
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Didn't they basically make a movie around the concept of the real guy who did that?

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Like, this year?

dusty ferry
# empty bloom I guess

Executors I guess. They’re like the one new idea we actually have gotten since infinite launched

empty bloom
dusty ferry
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And it’s actually somewhat developed as well

empty bloom
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Not ops we already got

dusty ferry
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Oh yeah, we getting like nothing good out of those

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Where is eaglestrike 2 darn it

empty bloom
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And honestly, as much as I absolutely love the corrupted scrapcode look for Executors, it's a dissappointing direction to go into

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Because there's just so much cooler directions for it

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Than a remake of Virus from like 1999

dusty ferry
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It works if later stuff gives us different directions

empty bloom
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IDK why but like

dusty ferry
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Because the early armor lore implies the different assemblies fighting each other

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And if you have that be the gimmick, with each even focusing on a different faction, then you can get away with wilder ideas

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If that makes sense

empty bloom
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The lore of the Created moving 'on' makes me think of entire damn cities made entirely around like, hab blocks the size of skyscrapers, build around massive solid state drives-with the internecine warfare of the Created being built around those drives of corrupted data to eke out more survival.

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Like

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Cannibalizing real estate when cut off from the domain to build larger and larger manufactured structures entirely to contain the madness

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Where destroying a fort means cutting off the corrupted tumors of an AI the hard way

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And the destruction of that territory is an unthinkable crime

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Where meatspace is occupied as slaves to ensure this system is maintained, instead of the originally benevolent goals

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Versus what we got, which is basically "Yeah these are the warriors and uh there's internecine conflict. Enjoy the guesswork."

empty bloom
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Y'know

last anchor
empty bloom
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Mommy Trenchy wants some damn meat, not this vegan stuff.

dusty ferry
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Yeah, If we actually understood any of the goals that would help so much

empty bloom
last anchor
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Your not alone.

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Infinites lost the one thing that made its updates cool; there was lore attached to them

dusty ferry
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I mean it really hasn’t yet. We’re only a week into this operation

empty bloom
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I mean, that's on the exec who decided crippling your damn lore team was a smart move going into this brave new world.

dusty ferry
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And last op gave us Venezia lore

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In two weeks when no new armor lore comes out, then yeah, lore is ded

stoic hamlet
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It didn’t really give us any major lore though. That’s the problem.

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This is the perfect opportunity to give us that lore… but no.

last anchor
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We have about 70 different hanging threads with interesting ideas with absolutely no follow up.

And instead we get...something that really shouldn't be all that important, because in truth, no Banished Spartan is going to survive long enough to matter.

They're getting Stolen Gauntled'd from 25 klicks out with a Stanchion.

dusty ferry
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I saw it as like, chimera 1. It introduced the idea and that it would get expanded upon later.

stoic hamlet
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I don’t know that I’ve ever seen a setting kill itself so slowly before.

last anchor
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Im absolutely convinced there was some stumbling block that came at some point and it fell flat on its face.
It freaking sucks.

stoic hamlet
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But like, here we are, I guess.

last anchor
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At least we're still kinda getting lore(?)
We could be like Titanfall, getting folded into Apex.

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Or the still as-of-yet unfinished and unanswered TF2 comics...

dusty ferry
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Yeah, rip to titanfall peeps

stoic hamlet
last anchor
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We still dont know about the corporate shadow wars on Earth that apparently require Spartan deployments.
That was given to us in Halo 5

dusty ferry
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This is what happens every game though, we’ve had lore mentions of corporate super soldiers and the like with no follow up on them

last anchor
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Its like they're throwing out hooks to a wider, grimmer universe thats way more interesting than what we actually get.

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Technically the idea of corporate supersoldiers was frefined in 5 specifically in a couple of armor descriptions.

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Before that there wasnt much.

dusty ferry
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It’s a consistent thing we just miss out on because we have like only 3 book tracks most of the time

stoic hamlet
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All this Venenzia stuff would be neat if it was actually built up instead of just thrown at us.

You know what I’d have loved to do for a trilogy? Follow that instead of random Keepers who got killed off-screen.

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Not even going into Saber and Gamma basically being left in the dust since 2006.

dusty ferry
stoic hamlet
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We’ve reached critical mass of plot lines, well, we’ve gone over them.

And we can’t keep introducing more and more and more with no pay off.

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And most of these plot lines have skipped actually being “created”. They appear fully formed.

last anchor
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We're turning into Warhammer 40k. And yet somehow 40k keeps better hold of its plotlines.

dusty ferry
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40k gets more than 1 book a year

stoic hamlet
dusty ferry
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Like, if we want plot resolution, they need to actually make books because god knows we’re not getting a game for a few years.

stoic hamlet
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Dead Men Walking, Eisenhorn, Gaunt’s Ghosts, Fire Warrior, Primogenitor, etc.

All these series can work and be totally disconnected from one another and it works, because there’s enough space to do that, and everything is technically much smaller scale because it’s so large.

dusty ferry
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Unless they actually make spartan ops style missions that tie into whatever event is happening. Which is totally doable now with the forge stuff

stoic hamlet
dusty ferry
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Seriously, some of the firefight maps have the ability to spawn Allies it wouldn’t even be out of the realm of possibility

empty bloom
dusty ferry
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The created-post created era was perfect for that

timber schooner
last anchor
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Freaking brush everything cool under tbe rug for something they don't follow up on. Figures

dusty ferry
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The one time most of it connected back was Halo 4 up to 5.

stoic hamlet
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Honestly I’m just depressed.

Like, this is what decades of time has been spent doing? I’ve spent decades now interested in this, with this as the result?

I mean, I didn’t think it could get this bad, but here we are.

empty bloom
dusty ferry
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343 literally did this a decade ago

empty bloom
empty bloom
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Like, an absolute jerk, because you know people were, and likely still are, trying to prevent it, but then mum's the word and it all just wooshed away.

stoic hamlet
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Yeah.

Like, this isn’t really the lore team’s fault. They really do seem to care
.
But like… yeah.

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Honestly I don’t know what they can do.

dusty ferry
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They are held back by whoever isn’t giving them the time or funds to extrapolate on the plot lines

stoic hamlet
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I really don’t.

empty bloom
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I wonder if pushing for the show is part of the reason the lore team got crippled.

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Like

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In a sense.

stoic hamlet
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I could see it.

empty bloom
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Because that's less budget going towards books and such.

stoic hamlet
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I could definitely see it.

dusty ferry
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Best case is we get like 3-4 books in two years

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And they all actually follow up on stuff in the armor lore (which won’t happen, but we can dream)

empty bloom
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I imagine there's also rules in place that keep, say, hypothetically, a lore team staff member from writing a whole essay and posting it on Waypoint.

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So it's not like that can be helped through less financially burdensome means than paperback releases.

stoic hamlet
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Books take time to write.

And that assumes we’ll have authors writing them.

These short stories just aren’t cutting it, because they’re cashing the same issues.

IMO we need more standalone books and plots.

No more series, no more dangling threads.

stoic hamlet
empty bloom
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That makes sense

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But also like

#

It blows my damn mind that Battletech managed to have the same setup, with the same rough writing quality, in the damn 90s.

#

And they released something to the tune of

#

Hang on

#

Lemme check

#

I have like 40 of their lore novels.

#

Like, zero rules, zero tabletop, just cold, hard character writing.

#

That's less than a quarter.

#

Of a decade of writing.

#

Hell, I'd argue even the most egrigious examples of lore funkiness are less abrasive on a broader scale to the universe than Silent Storm.

#

But then I'm hella biased against Silent Storm.

dusty ferry
#

Battle tech always has a place to get money though. From the tabletop stuff. Halo has like the games and nothing else

#

There isn’t any real safety net for halo

empty bloom
#

Except, thing is, the Battletech franchise is doing better now than it was then, and a lot of these releases were when the franchise was being torn asunder by rights mismanagement.

#

IE, having serious financial woes.

#

Like, I know, I know, it's not the same, it never will be, and I'm making false equivelancies.

stoic hamlet
#

It’s just a cascade of issues that’s befalling 343’s team.

And you can’t solve one without solving them all, but they’re never going to be able to solve them all, so…

empty bloom
#

But it still is just crazy to me that that wild, wild west of sci fi was a healthy environment to make a roughly internally consistent setting over, well

broadly waves hands

All this.

#

When the worst lore-breaking details you got tend to be weird out-of-place references to WW2 German Generals and Confederates by a writer who's been outed as a jerk who deffo liked those a little too much and got fired for it, it's baffling how anyone else fails to do that well short of sheer, staggering failiures on every level.

stoic hamlet
#

Honestly I stand by the “fan contest thing”.

Like honestly that’s the only way I see them maybe digging out of this hole is by selecting specific fans to write short stories.

Either that, or a lot more communication. More livestreams, more AMA’s,. Not from the e-sports crowd, or the game devs, but Alex Wakeford, Kenneth Peters, Jeff Easterling, and others who I apologize for not knowing by name.

empty bloom
#

Borrow a page from modern Battletech's lore corner?

#

Which has been received very well outside of the aformentioned canned Blaine Pardoe.

last anchor
#

Pardoe was a jerk anyway so

stoic hamlet
#

Genuinely the best thing Alex ever did for me as a fan was hop on Halopedia’s discord and just talk… as a fan. I still occasionally think of when he mentioned how H5 basically screwed them over and that they were still trying to figure out a way out of that hole.

Man, that endeared the entire team to me so much, lol.

dusty ferry
#

I mean, battletech literally makes money entirely off pushing the setting forward. 343 technically could just make an infinite number of prequels in the HCW and be fine. At least based on how fans act most of the time.

#

Is that oversimplifying it? Yes

stoic hamlet
#

I mean it’s oversimplifying but it’s also correct.

dusty ferry
#

Yeah, battletech sort of needs to move forward in story to introduce new mechs

empty bloom
#

Except they still like

#

Actually explain how new mechs show up. And why.

#

Like

stoic hamlet
#

The problem is 343 doesn’t want to “set things in stone” so they do the bare minimum so they don’t lock themselves out of potential stories later.

But that’s now gotten to the point where the universe feels like these weird foggy ideas with no substance.

dusty ferry
#

That doesn’t excuse 343’s quality, but it explains why we don’t get volumes of stuff every year

empty bloom
#

Like, I'd do unspeakable things for an entire book of armor lore set up like this.

image.png
#

Unspeakable.

river ridge
#

or smth like halo legends

dusty ferry
river ridge
#

kind of like how star wars has tales of the jedi and now tales of the empire

empty bloom
#

Except the show is most likely a money pit as was discussed prior.

dusty ferry
#

I would kill for warfleet 2, or a crosssections book

river ridge
#

wdym

stoic hamlet
#

Once more, fan contest thing.

Or whatever you want to call it.

Pick…idk, ten fans well known in the lore community, ask if they want to write a short story, they get the pick of the litter, if 343 doesn’t like it, then it’s not taken, but the fans can pitch literally whatever they want.

Then release them monthly.

empty bloom
river ridge
#

mb

#

yeah it is a moneypit

dusty ferry
#

The show is like fine.

#

It does different things than the main universe

river ridge
#

i mean one thats lore accurate

dusty ferry
#

That’s it

empty bloom
#

It's fine but it's gotta be eating into what Microsoft wants to spend on Halo.

#

Which is part of why the expanded stuff is hampered a bit, presumably.

dusty ferry
#

Like, I’m chill with the show because I’m a gundam fan

river ridge
empty bloom
empty bloom
dusty ferry
#

I’m used to alternate universe which either barely change anything or are the same premise taken in vastly different directions

stoic hamlet
empty bloom
#

Right.

river ridge
empty bloom
#

But they... Just can't. For some reason.

river ridge
#

or someone who doesent just want to ship their 2 favorite characters(rare)

empty bloom
#

"Oh boy, he's learning how to be human again!"

river ridge
#

also another thing that a lot of people have mentioned before is to just play as a marine

#

playing as a marine on an invaded planet in a tarkov or dayz like game would be cool

dusty ferry
stoic hamlet
river ridge
#

ok if its someone from halopedia

#

than id be down

bronze prawn
#

a game in the forerruner - ancient humanity war would be cool

empty bloom
river ridge
#

actually being a unsc or jcdf soldier during the siege of jacinto would go hard

empty bloom
empty bloom
# river ridge ok if its someone from halopedia

Halopedia's got no shortage of high people that love that sort of samey stuff.

Course, I'm also very biased against Halopedia at this point outside of lore articles because it's A) Hard to be worse than Halo Alpha or Halo Fanon and B) My issues are more with their perspective of the fiction than the coverage, which is generally exhaustive and useful.

#

No, I'm totally not still mad about getting banned for making a meme about one of the moderators thinking that hardlight was too bright.

river ridge
#

but yeah even in terms of games

#

they can still do a bunch of stuff

empty bloom
#

Games are generally more expensive than offloading the viewpoint onto the reader's brain.

river ridge
#

especially with HCW since all the stuff we see in the games is eitheir near the very start(halo wars) or at the very end

river ridge
empty bloom
bronze prawn
#

i think we have seen enough of the covenant for now

empty bloom
#

Because that was like 5-6 years ago

river ridge
#

i personally prefer them over the banished and prometheans though

empty bloom
#

Maybe people would actually like the Prometheans and Created more if, y'know

#

YOU ACTUALLY TALKED ABOUT THEM AS A DAMN FACTION

dusty ferry
#

Or used them in literally anything?

river ridge
#

my main thing is that

dusty ferry
#

Like, genuinely use them somewhere

#

Like I dunno, a game

bronze prawn
#

we can combine both ideas

river ridge
#

whats the difference between the prometheans and the sentinels other than prometheans being dead humans or smth

bronze prawn
#

a marine surviving in a created invasion while banished forces are around

empty bloom
#

There's a reason the Prometheans all have death masques. It'd be great to know why, even if I can guess.

river ridge
#

just not the explanation

empty bloom
#

The explanation's fine.

#

And it makes sense.

#

I mean it's already canonized that souls are apparently canon, which is a world shaking revelation nobody talks about.

river ridge
#

maybe its because i havent finished the forerunner trilogy yet

#

im on the last book

empty bloom
#

I never actually sat down and read them, I just know what happens in them.

#

I don't generally like Forerunner lore.

dusty ferry
empty bloom
#

Yeah.

bronze prawn
#

so the forerruner trilogy is basically chakas with some friends surviving absolutely everything

#

until the halos are fired

dusty ferry
#

Like, I get it not being dwelled on in current stuff, I don’t think anyone actually knows what living time is

empty bloom
dusty ferry
#

That’s currently alive

dusty ferry
river ridge
#

also werent there other aliens the covenant genocided in lore

empty bloom
#

It's not much of a spoiler.

#

It's more just like... Broad universal factoid, I guess.

#

Which

#

It also says weird contradictory stuff because, well

#

It's Forerunner lore

#

And Forerunner lore is frequently contradictory

#

"Yeah you can't destroy the domain, it'll just heal. BUT, you can permanently destroy parts of it and erase entire eras of history from it!"

#

Which to me just sounds like being able to destroy it, just very ineffeciently.

river ridge
#

halo 1-3 heavily suggested humans were forerunners

empty bloom
#

last I checked, if I melted down a car component-by-component it's still melted down entirely when I'm done.

river ridge
#

and than they werent

empty bloom
#

Implications are not confirmations and I don't want to have this argument again.

bronze prawn
dusty ferry
#

This arguement is always dumb

empty bloom
#

IT'S LITERALLY BEEN CANON THAT THEY WEREN'T HUMAN LONGER THAN IT WAS IMPLIED THEY WERE

dusty ferry
#

It’s the most boring argument ever

#

And it’s always used as a bungo good dog whistle

river ridge
#

fair enough mb i wasnt here for those arguements

empty bloom
dusty ferry
#

Thats fandom baby. We always find a way to hate each other

hot zodiac
empty bloom
#

It's just funny to put it that way lmao

river ridge
empty bloom
#

Hahaha

hot zodiac
#

But there are people who come in here just to say that and get people riled up

empty bloom
#

More than one got banned for it, lmao

#

Granted they were doing it super aggressively and would type entire run on paragraphs about it.

dusty ferry
empty bloom
#

I think part of that is like

#

You aren't as likely to fly your Halo flag all the damn time like you are with like, 40K

river ridge
bronze prawn
#

star wars fans complain more about the actual state of star wars than the actual star wars

#

so IDK

dusty ferry
river ridge
stoic hamlet
empty bloom
#

Women Custodes

stoic hamlet
#

Maybe Halo would be the same if it wasn’t in a forever rut,

river ridge
#

40k fans when the lore drops about the existance of showers in 40k

dusty ferry
river ridge
#

(its a 1500 page book)

empty bloom
#

AKA the dropper of the best damn Angron art ever.

dusty ferry
stoic hamlet
# empty bloom *Women Custodes*

I mean, I don’t really care about the Golden frens, but I do think the Sisters of Silence being the female version of the Custodes was neat.

But now it’s Custodes with both and the Sisters, so lol.

empty bloom
#

I'll admit that I always hated the Sisters of Silence as a concept.

#

People do not like how angry I get over them.

stoic hamlet
#

😠

#

😛

#

Curious as to why.

empty bloom
#

It's not that I don't like the of silence part.

#

It's more like

#

It feels like a weird way to make a powerful "Custodes level" equivelant to the SoB.

#

So it comes across as really lazy to me.

stoic hamlet
#

Ahhh, fair.

empty bloom
#

And unlike the SoB, there isn't a reason for why they're all women (Which, I think the SoB are dumb for a similar reason, but that's more my own innate hatred of rules lawyers not getting called out)

#

Like

#

You're telling me the Emperor has this massive army consisting entirely of blank women? From where? How? Why? What?

#

I mean, it's 40K, so whatever

#

But IDK, it just rankles me uniquely, lmao

last anchor
#

Not as uniquely as you might think actually if that helps any

empty bloom
dusty ferry
#

Because they’ve never given me a single thought tbh.

empty bloom
#

Why do I not like them?

dusty ferry
#

Yeah

#

Because I’ve never heard anyone have an opinion about them before

empty bloom
#

For both it's kind of frustrating because it feels like something that shouldn't be, well, gendered. Ditto with Space Marines, btw.

#

Like

#

For the SoB, it's canonically due to Goge Vandire and Ecclesiarchal rules lawyering (They aren't allowed to have men under arms).

#

But it's such an obvious spot of rules lawyering that to me it's unthinkable that nobody would call them on it.

#

Like, actually snaps my suspension of disbelief like a twig.

dusty ferry
#

Like no one every went, “hey this thing is holding us back. Let’s quietly get rid of it”

empty bloom
#

It's not even like the Ecclesiarchy listens! They literally go on crusades with male soldiers!

#

I can totally get them getting moneydirt on people to outfit their troops with power armor, that's fine, but rules lawyering around Men at arms is so damn stupid.

dusty ferry
#

But the space marines being only male did always run me wrong. Is the emperor really so terrible he couldn’t figure out how to make women space marines?

empty bloom
#

Pretty much.

#

You're telling me Sanguinius' DNA works on people with the genetic scrapcode that makes spaghetti look like a solid block of tungsten by comparison, but not women?

#

Ridiculous.

#

At least with 40K I can step back and laugh because I'm getting worked up over something that's always been stupid and half-effort.

bronze prawn
#

which are more powerful, those "tyranids" or the flood

empty bloom
#

Whichever is written better on the day of battle.

dusty ferry
#

I’d say whoever the author likes more

empty bloom
#

Porque no los dos?

river ridge
last anchor
#

Spoiler: they can't

#

Also, having a Halo version of Shrapnel would rule

tropic forge
# obsidian thistle Why disappointing?

Broadest possible strokes I was hoping that this would be the angle they use to expand on the recently mentioned Janissaries and the entire Venezian/Banished armour manufacturing that has been set up the last little while.

#

A Banished Spartan isn't a bad thing---or at least isn't necessarily a bad thing, just not what I was hoping for.

drowsy mesa
#

Honestly, after reading the Champion helmet's description, I wouldn't be surprised if Zeta Halo's coordinates that Kovan and Horvath end in "The Rubicon Protocol" end up being picked up by an Outer Colony under Banished control instead of the UNSC, making all their efforts being for naught

meager pier
#

Makes sense Outer Colonies would side with the Banished, after how much the UEG kinda left them during the war

#

Not to mention the decades of disputes

prisma sierra
#

Banished Spartans? Don't those large monkeys kill humans

empty bloom
#

It's basically just engaging in the goofy fandom stuff.

wispy pewter
tribal trench
#

they arent stupid

river ridge
#

while ofc most brutes would brutally kill humans

empty bloom
#

Y'know

#

I really hope they don't do what I'm worried they'll do

#

Which is make Locke the Banished turncoat.

#

It'd be a wonderful, wonderful way to spit on every single thing his character was about.

#

Just absolutely awful.

dusty ferry
#

They literally couldn’t. The turncoat is a girl

empty bloom
#

Where'd that come out?

dusty ferry
#

Says that on the operation waypoint page

empty bloom
#

???

dusty ferry
#

“and one former-Spartan in particular finds herself on a new path altogether...”

empty bloom
#

Ah

wispy pewter
empty bloom
#

???

wispy pewter
#

jk idk

empty bloom
#

If it's anyone we know who wasn't already traitor I'm gonna be pissed.

dusty ferry
#

It’s probably Zane.

empty bloom
#

Zane'd make the most sense

dusty ferry
#

The only other option I can think of is that spartan who tested mark VI. That’s like the only female that isn’t Zane who could reasonably be called “former spartan”

#

And that’s the biggest stretch ever

#

Reserves isn’t really retirement

empty bloom
#

I mean, any Spartan who breaks bonds is going to be a former Spartan.

#

At least IMO

#

You go rogue completely, you're no longer a Spartan.

#

Like, Chief in 5? Still a Spartan, he's still serving in how he thinks he's best utilized.

#

Zane, Randall? Nope.

drowsy mesa
#

IT IS Ilsa Zane, the Waypoint Chronicle will start shortly after Hunt the Truth ends, and Ilsa Zane is the only "Spartan" that appears in that audio series

last anchor
#

Also she never died on screen did she?

meager pier
#

Last we heard with what happening with her, she was on Laika III, trying to take control of a Guardian, but was on the surface as it was rising from the ground and activating

empty bloom
#

I love being told and not shown.

wispy pewter
#

she's one of those super spartans

#

though suits would be better against plasma

vivid umbra
unique rune
#

What

#

I've only ever said they were useless because of the exact thing he's criticizing there

empty bloom
#

Was about to say

last anchor
#

Hehehe. Ouch

unique rune
#

It's not even the first time the dude has tried to call me out like this so I don't get what his problem is

Like yeah the Created functionally were made irrelevant and it annoys me, I never said they were pointless from the beginning

obsidian thistle
#

Heres a thing about the Created

#

They were always not gonna make a big impact

#

Otherwise stuff we already knew from Believe and Halo: Reach media wouldnt work

#

IE the fact Humanity is still doing pretty well 2610. With Intersystem News still existing, shipping between Colonies like Reach and Earth.

We even know ONI still exists in 2590

#

At most, Smart AI are in a weird place after the Created Incident

#

And probably have severe restrictions if they are still created post 2560.

unique rune
#

Well, sure, but that still leaves roughly 40 years of room for them to have been something. Instead of lasting about three years because out of universe 343 needed room to promote the Banished as the new big threat.

#

Just by nature of them being the antagonist faction I wouldn't have expected them to do anything like actually win, but, like.

What we got has pretty much just been glossing over most of the conflict then offing their leader offscreen.

empty bloom
#

It's also the easiest ignored.

empty bloom
#

They;

  • Completely overran the sitting UEG Government, reducing its military to desperate exiles.
  • Destroyed the homeworld of the Brutes and galvanized them under one banner
  • Gave the grunts major political military power by giving them advanced manufacturing and space travel capabilities the Covenant denied them
  • Were considered such a grave threat that the ostensibly largest leader of the Elites had to knuckle under to them to ensure his species wouldn't get Brute'd.
#

Saying that isn't a big impact and can't continue to be one is like saying losing your dominant hand in a car accident only slightly impacted your ability to write.

ruby canopy
#

I would say it was only a colossal impact to 2 species. The UEG can easily rebuild from that in 40 years. And nothing happened to the elites, they just had to accept the created as rulers for a moment

empty bloom
#

I forget that every faction is ran and followed by idiots in Halo.

#

Also, I find it annoying how much people either don't know or don't care about how explicitly entrenched the Smart AI were in Human civilization.

#

They ran agriculture, they ran manufacturing, they maintained banking, healthcare, science structures to the degree that one was in a position to kill her own facility's entire staff.

#

In what world, in what sane world, would the UEG bounce back from the sheer destruction that could be wrought by haywire Smart AI willfully holding the foodstores of an entire civilization with a gun to the head?

#

As for the Sangheili, Arbiter's knuckling under in a time of extreme societal change makes him look like a weak leader in a time where the Sangheili still value leaders that look and act strong.

#

Knuckling under Atriox again on Netherop further hammers the issue home-The greatest among their number being weaker to power after power, undercutting any mention of his great 'victories'.

ruby canopy
#

I don’t think there were that many smart ai. I’m pretty sure most of that work was done with dumb ai. And people have proven to be quite resilient in coming back from atrocities, there is always someone to take the place of someone who fails

empty bloom
#

It has literally been a foundational element of the UEG's lore since the first half decade of Halo's existence as a franchise.

#

The entirity of agri on Harvest was ran by Sif and Mack, two Smart AI.

#

It's been heavily implied that it's a pretty normal arrangement.

ruby canopy
#

As for the elites, I would say they couldn’t be quite that dumb. The power of the created was noticeable

empty bloom
#

Political schisms aren't a matter of dumb or smart, they are a matter of appearances, expectations, and promises.

#

I know plenty of smart people who vote and act against their own interests unknowingly.

#

This is also still a time where rulers like Xytan are still in living memory, and Jul's followers never fully died out.

#

With his son taking his mantle.

marble lion
#

In my opinion. The Created were not the next big threat (mostly from poor writing) they were just added during one of H5's rewrite during mid production as a after thought. They may had a brief big impact near the end of 5, but not much after started strong and later became weak and disorganized. The 40 year gap might be a different story never konw it will be same or change. They may still use smart AI in a pre Created if UEG is still interested.

empty bloom
#

The Created were written fine for the short time they were written short of acts made to undercut them in the more modern day, and even these generally aren't the best reasoned.

#

The problem is that the longer reaching implications of their abilities were swiftly discarded in favor of Pretenders to the title of Spartan and the Banished getting massively increased in scope.

unique rune
#

They may had a brief big impact near the end of 5,
only because they were never given the chance to actually be a proper threat
which is

kind of the problem here in the first place?

empty bloom
#

I feel like some people like

#

See "Created"

#

And don't actually listen to what the hell I'm saying?

#

And just want to interject about some crap about '5 bad' or whatever.

empty bloom
prisma sierra
#

They gonna need to programme their AIs better now

reef orbit
#

Just a random idea but I think that 343 should make a movie or game or book about ONI bursting to pieces. We are so far into halo lore at this point where we personally even though we aren't in the halo universe have all the reason to get rid of ONI. So would all the characters in halo if they knew all of the messed up stuff that ONI has done. There should be a book, game, or movie where master chief or somebody helps brake into the midnight facility and release a bunch of the prisoners there including Benjamin Giraud and then they make a plan to stop ONI. And at the end a new Illuminati like organization is set up to right ONI's wrongs.

#

Could be executed in a much better way than I put it probably but that's the general idea

unique rune
#

Ah yes, replace the intelligence agency with a concerning lack of oversight with a different intelligence agency with a concerning lack of oversight but this time they’re good, we swear

empty bloom
#

That's a very polite way to put that thought.

reef orbit
#

Or if that sounds stupid just get rid of them completely and don't replace them

#

Or replace the people in charge

#

I guess that would mean admiral parangosky

last anchor
#

She's probably dead by now. ONIs CINC is Serin Osman

#

Also, go right ahead and suggest that yiu get rid of ONI. I'm sure you won't vanish to a blacksite and be viciously tortured or worse.

I'm sure Ben Jirad needs company

last anchor
empty bloom
#

Less polite, still accurate.

wispy pewter
#

stop making spartans and build more ships

empty bloom
#

They serve different purposes. In terms of fluid power, Spartans are super useful.

wispy pewter
#

yes but before the infinity they lost almost every space battle

unique rune
#

The deciding factor there is less the Infinity being around and more that the Covenant is broken into a bunch of little squabbling pieces

wispy pewter
#

and now their flagship is gone I doubt they will be winning anymore space battles

stoic hamlet
#

I feel like anyone who says “ONI needs to go/no one IRL would tolerate them/be okay with what they’re doing” hasn’t read a history book… or been alive very long, lol

When ONI starts publicly administering Residential Schools, then we can talk about dismantling them…

…but they never would be, because we didn’t dismantle our governments when people finally thought they were too icky to keep around.

empty bloom
#

Hmn.

marble lion
#

ONI is basically the CIA, MI6 and OSS of Halo. Getting rid them would be a really bad move as they are the last line of defense for Earth and her colonies if some worse things occurs.

wispy pewter
#

I don't see people going crazy over a real life 3 letter organisation doing shady stuff

wispy pewter
tulip vessel
#

Redemption for some, add conflict to John's new moral code (humanity) and his duty (super soldier)

End Halo at the number 7, probably showing how bog influential groups that force you to sacrifice things that are important to you is very dangerous (very cult like vibes from the Banished)

Almost like with how the Arbiter learned to see past his loyalty and become more humble.

But John learns how to be more human, and another lesson about the big blinding ideals people will snare you with despite the atrocities The Banished do. Especially to more vulnerable characters like Engineers and Grunts.

wispy pewter
#

117 vs UNSC

tulip vessel
#

117 turns Banished frfr

#

He becomes High Prophet after winning a staring contest with Atriox

#

A very lethal... staring contest... involving guns, beams, blades, and big juicy hammers

#
  • the golf club finishing blow that speaks SGT. Johnson quotes
#

Red Team Jerome+chair vs Flood energy

wispy pewter
#

Red team finally gets new gen armor

prisma sierra
#

One thing show MC has over main timeline Master Chief is that only one of them had a real girlfriend

wispy pewter
#

Show MC managed to hit...

flat valve
#

i am loving cryptum just started listening to the audio book

versed helm
#

So... are there actually Sangheili phenotypes or are those just redesigns?

carmine sleet
#

They are a thing in the lore, yes

#

Though the difference in appearance for the Elites in H4/5 (Which I assume you're referring to) does originate from artstyle changes. Though to say those changes started in H4 would be incorrect

versed helm
#

I see.

carmine sleet
#

If it's about how they reproduce, they lay eggs

empty bloom
#

No.

sonic lagoon
#

What is the armor thickness in Millimeters for Spartans, Sentinels, and Hunters?

empty bloom
hot zodiac
#

It could be relevant lmao

empty bloom
#

It's irrelevant to how they tend to describe things. It's... Annoying, to me, but at the same time, Halo armor runs on 'itproblablyworksium'.

unique rune
#

Apparently Ghosts of Onyx says that Mgalekgolo body armor is about 8 centimeters thick.

Left unspecified for everything else and pretty much any time we get numbers like that it's just whatever sounds tacticool.

wispy pewter
#

the ODSTs are also wearing armor

empty bloom
#

So not quite a known material.

wispy pewter
#

oh

stoic hamlet
#

We know at least SPI’s bodysuit provides “more than 3cm of ballistic protection than Kevlar diamond-weave with none of the bulk”, as well.

And the plating would be even better armoured, likely also titanium.

So MJOLNIR is even better than that.

wispy pewter
#

Mew Mew

sonic lagoon
#

How what is the minimum millimeter or caliber to penetrate MJOLNIR armor?

#

And distance.

empty bloom
#

Wait, did, you like, want a specific answer, lmao?

#

We know like, a Magnum can't actually do the job. A needle rifle shouldn't, but it did once. And uh.

#

Look, if you're looking for hard stats, you'd have a better risk of not getting wet at Big Bill Hell's.

wispy pewter
#

Palmer survived a needler with her ODST armor

#

idk if Halo has titanium tipped rounds

#

maybe they would do soemthing

empty bloom
#

And yet, Thorne got hit hard by a needler and Phillips didn't care at all that he got hit with a needler. Weird stuff.

wispy pewter
#

real weird either the shield does not work without helmet or they just forgot

empty bloom
#

Escalation is weird.

sonic lagoon
#

Survival can vary so much depending on how serious a would is. You have had people literally lose part of their brains throughout history and survive, so it’s not outlandish to see something like that.

versed helm
#

does supercombining only work on not energy shielded targets or does it work on those with energy shields too? cause I'm pretty sure jackals in h4 love to supercombine me when i have shields on

carmine sleet
#

That's just something that changes depending on the game

wise snow
#

So does the Halo Infinite legendary ending mean Offensive Bias is gonna be in the next game?

#

Well not next game but like the sequel to Infinite I mean

unique rune
#

Probably not
The Legendary ending audio is set about 100,000 years before the events of Infinite, so it’s referring to Offensive Bias being deployed to deal with the Endless at that time

carmine sleet
#

We're most likely going to see Endless though, which is gonna be refreshing since outside of Harbinger, we don't know much about them

distant ingot
wise snow
buoyant beacon
#

will the next mainline halo still be on zeta?

tribal trench
#

No one knows

empty bloom
buoyant beacon
#

what is that supposed to mean😭

#

forgive me if im being dumb

empty bloom
#

So your username is funny, because it implies every Kaidon, including the Arbiter, is dead.

buoyant beacon
#

isnt a kaidon just a leader of Sanghelios? isn't the Arbiter the Kaidon at this time? i didnt know there could be more than one at a time

#

wait yk what you're right

stoic hamlet
#

Every Sangheili world has multiple Kaidon’s, on average.

buoyant beacon
#

yup i just got that fact mixed up

versed helm
#

So which Spartan armor would be considered the best when it comes to capabilities and performance? (like, which would you say is the most "powerful")

wispy pewter
#

I would say the latest one

#

but Mark IV will forever be my favourite

versed helm
#

I see, also solid opinion.

empty bloom
#

That said, some GEN2 variants have some insane feats or implications to their power and performance being well above anything reasonable.

#

For example, Prefect is basically a Forerunner material shell on a GEN2 framework and presumably operates insanely well due to that. The same concept applies to Hellcat, just human.

#

Other sets, such as Dynast, are implied to have plates made entirely of 'hyperdiamond' and carbon nanotubes, which is unambiguously stronger than whatever they normally use for MJOLNIR these days.

versed helm
#

I see, thank you.

empty bloom
#

It's part of why the HE2022 annoyed me when it blanketed GEN2 as being 'only a mild improvement' and 'had worse protection' when neither ever really seems to be true.

#

I'd have said it as 'inconsistent performance' or something, which would be vastly more appropriate.

prisma sierra
#

I wonder if there's any ancient human stuff around or were they totally destroyed

unique rune
#

The UNSC has recovered ancient human equipment so there's some still out there

empty bloom
#

It informed the development of the Hellcat armor

carmine sleet
#

Is that the only mention of UNSC having ancient human tech?

obsidian thistle
#

Hmmm

#

There is the curious case of the Assembly

#

And how its suggested it was formed by a ancient human AI.

#

But thats more independent.

sonic lagoon
#

Are there any cases of a sentient species in Halo gone feral?

last anchor
#

Grunts without supervision, maybe?

sonic lagoon
#

What exactly could the blue mandibles be categorized as?

unique rune
# carmine sleet Is that the only mention of UNSC having ancient human tech?

ONI found an ancient human warship, though it’s not clear if it’s meant to be the same as the one mentioned in Hellcat’s flavor text.

Hellcat’s armor text also notes that it was developed using data from “enigmatic ruins”, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they recovered other tech from that.

carmine sleet
#

Fair

#

I wonder if Heian is the ruins being referred to there?

unique rune
#

I'm inclined to think probably not. The description also says that said ruins were found on a "dead world", and Heian mostly looks pretty alive all things considered.

carmine sleet
#

Yeah, Heian is definitely not that

wispy pewter
#

Ancient Human tech can be considered human technology AmongUsChief

brave osprey
#

so is ONI just the UAC from Doom?

wispy pewter
#

ONI is like the 3 letter organizations we have in the world

empty bloom
#

ONI is an extremely powerful and extremely secretive clandestine organization, but it's strictly a military element.

brave osprey
empty bloom
#

Not even close. ONI does many awful things, and many selfish things, but the organization's methods are more the problem than their overarching goals-even their worst goals tended to at least have a good intention.

#

The UEG/UNSC for its part was genuinely horrified by the Carver findings even if they were ultimately bunk (It's unintentionally implied that the Spartan IIs effectively started actually killing people immediately after the rebels were already nearly dead).

#

The Covenant and its species were a genuinely horrifying threat that burned worlds in their wake and gave no quarter to military or civilians, with the elite's twisted sense of honor and religion justifying them burning down men, women, and children, combatants and noncombatants alike in utterly dishonorable fashion by human standards-butchers. They were also the most organized post-war (Not including the Banished), and thus worthy of destabilization. Partially seeking to wipe them out was an extreme measure, but not exactly an incomprehensible or altogether 'evil' belief for a species that had clearly been bled dry by 25 years of brutal, bloody war.

#

The flood were horrifying and exposure of POWs is never truly justified-but ships using Covenant POWs as test subjects is certainly a way to figure out how the flood 'tick', so to speak. It's not like you could use humans to do it, and there's not really a 'moral' way to figure it out if you can't procure more samples safely or readily.

wispy pewter
#

Covenant has killed billions of Humans I don't think anyone in universe would feel bad about it

empty bloom
#

In-universe, the implications are horrifying. You're still doing it to sentients, albiet sentients who are fighting a war of annihilation against you.

#

And the insanity of doing it aboard a ship. A ship with a slipspace drive.

#

I get they didn't quite understand the flood yet, but that's insane.

rapid river
# empty bloom ONI is an extremely powerful and extremely secretive clandestine organization, b...

Its fairly evident that ONI has a pervasive influence of the civilian sector. Hunt the Truth specifically involves horing Benjamin Giraud to write a sanctioned piece on the Master Chief and notably has a considerable degree on influence on UEG politics and public relations.

But yes, ONI is not akin to Arasaka or the UAC as ONI is ultimately a government organisation that does shaddy government things (like the CIA), rather than a private organisation driven for the need for profits.

prisma sierra
#

So the humans have a wide variety of things to reverse engineer.

empty bloom
#

ONI is literally a subset of the UNSC Navy; It influences civilian governance, sure, but that does not make ONI not a military organization.

empty bloom
prisma sierra
#

It's always said as Oh-Nee right. In the show they keep saying the letters it bugged me lol

empty bloom
#

Either works. It's an acronym.

#

It's like calling the CIA "Kee-a", though.

#

Or "Kai-a"

#

"ONI" just works because it's structured to be phonetically identical to "Own-ee".

#

Being a Japanese Yokai.

#

... I think Oni are considered yokai, at least.

prisma sierra
#

I see

prisma sierra
#

In Halo 4 the ancient human ships had blue lasers

#

That's cool

empty bloom
#

As production models, yes.

#

Lasers are inherently more useful to UNSC doctrine than plasma torps, so.

#

... At least, when the UNSC isn't trying to use obsolete and insane early-war tactics in 2551.

prisma sierra
#

And they have access to an Ancient Human warship

stoic hamlet
bronze prawn
#

ONI is the literal representation of " the end justifies the means"

prisma sierra
#

Yeah that's what I thought of as well

#

Like section 31

#

They used Un federation means to defeat the Klingons

empty bloom
#

I'd argue it's exactly like the Federation, just the part the Federation keeps chained.

#

I always liked Quark's speech to his nephew about humans being more savage than Klingons, just placated by luxuries and strong support systems.

#

It's telling, because Quark's ran into plenty of very non-"Federation" humans and such; Plenty of non-"Klingon" Klingons; etc etc.

prisma sierra
#

"They irradiatiated their own planet?"

last anchor
obsidian thistle
#

(Tip you just say every character. Thats how I always imagined it. Especially due to its meaning aha)

prisma sierra
#

Funny because Kia is exactly how you say it. Kee-a.

#

Meanwhile everyone calls the US intelligence agency as C-I-A

tardy shale
#

I thought halos entire lore was green man kills aliens

wispy pewter
#

it is

tardy shale
wispy pewter
#

John 117 smashing aliens

scarlet quiver
#

It was in 1-3.

prisma sierra
#

And then 343 took over

unique rune
unborn patrol
#

wasnt the lore pretty expansive prior to 343 tho? with all the books etc there was plenty of world building outside of green man kill purple guy

gusty star
#

He was joking

bronze prawn
#

the f--- ?

carmine sleet
unborn patrol
#

I think they aknowledged them a ton, they just always said that the games take importance over other media what it comes to lore

unique rune
#

They really didn’t

#

Bungie mostly ignored the books and accepted that they existed but also said they’d overrule things they didn’t like

fierce solstice
#

I gots a question here, so what would proto unsc ship design look like, i would assume more nasa inspired? Im talking the time before the invention of the SFTE

river ridge
carmine sleet
#

The Bungie games covered events that happened in the last few months

empty bloom
hot zodiac
#

Bungie acknowledged the books so much that even their lead writer wrote one of them.

inland musk
#

why did Noble 6 just commit die He could have just hid till a escape pod landed or somthing

carmine sleet
carmine sleet
unborn patrol
#

I dont think hiding is a realistic option in the 2500s

#

Probs got all the means to see you through a rock

empty bloom
#

Usually, the interest waned on everything that wasn't pure 'rule of cool'. They even tried to shoot down the concept of ODSTs, which originally were supposed to be more of a book thing.

hot zodiac
#

And who said that?

#

Joe was lead writer for every game except Reach

#

Him caring about the books is quite literally the most important matter.

empty bloom
hot zodiac
empty bloom
#

Bungie did, internally, until it benefitted them to change their minds.

hot zodiac
#

Who was the person who actually said "I hate ODSTs"

#

Because they clearly were in the minority

empty bloom
#

Not elaborated. General leadership temperament was 'no'.

#

Just that it was apparently a fight to get Bungie to accept ODSTs.

#

Just like how it was a fight to get them to even partially accept the book deal for Fall of Reach, and even then leadership tried to renege on the deal at the last second.

hot zodiac
#

At most, I can believe Bungie gave ET a hard time because he was a Microsoft employee - not because of the idea of ODSTs itself

#

They clearly actually liked the idea

empty bloom
#

Except they clearly disliked it at first behind the scenes, according to more than just Trautmann.

hot zodiac
#

Who said that?

empty bloom
#

@woven plaza Do you have the video?

hot zodiac
#

ODSTs were in the first draft of Halo 2 that Staten showed off in the vidoc

empty bloom
#

I hate searching for the damn interview, it's always annoying.

hot zodiac
#

Jason Jones himself wore an ODST t shirt

empty bloom
#

Okay? I could wear a shirt that says "I HATE frogs", that doesn't mean anything.

woven plaza
hot zodiac
#

Who is this mysterious ODST hater and why are they so important?

empty bloom
#

Well, for starters, they existed and were present enough to actually be a factor at one point in development.

woven plaza
hot zodiac
empty bloom
woven plaza
#

To war

empty bloom
#

Even then... It's Staten. I'm not exactly thrilled with his stewardship.

#

Or takes.

hot zodiac
#

Staten was lead on the final editing process but not the first drafts

empty bloom
#

And he still let lines like "To War" slide?

#

Good god, thanks for giving me a reason to dislike him.

hot zodiac
#

Yeah, he said it was a "compromise"

#

As in letting the other side win lol

empty bloom
#

Of all the things you could comprimise over, good god.

#

I mean, really, it's a double whammy. Everyone involved in that decision's a fool.

#

I bet Marty was the one who thought he was cooking with that line.

hot zodiac
empty bloom
#

That sounds like a Marty thing.

hot zodiac
#

embeds must be broke?

#

"No. Some folks liked the line, others didn't. In the end, we compromised, and the line stayed in the script."

empty bloom
hot zodiac
#

AFAIK that wasn't a Martyism

empty bloom
#

It sure as hell sounds like one lmao

#

But then I'm biased because I mostly view the guy in a strongly negative light

#

So

hot zodiac
#

I don't think I've heard any Bungie employees speak positively of the line, if I had to guess, Rob Stokes?

#

He was writing the first drafts before Staten came back

empty bloom
#

Weak!

empty bloom
#

Because he was super adamant that turning off music seperately from dialogue would 'ruin the Halo experience'

#

Or something along those lines

#

Not sure how true it is, but given his egotist tendencies I'm inclined to think it's something he'd do.

hot zodiac
#

Very sure there's public statements about that yes

#

He viewed it as like a specially curated thing

empty bloom
#

It's funny because Reach is straight up better with no music.

#

Especially its intro.

#

You couldn't hear it in the 360 days, but the pans to the helmet in the intro are actually audio mixed with the noises of wind and burning metal and stuff-it's just covered over Reach's overture.

#

The emotional impact, even for as much as I crap on Reach, is honestly ruined by the music.

woven plaza
#

speaking of reach

woven plaza
hot zodiac
woven plaza
#

Acknowledging the books by mucking up the canon

empty bloom
#

Like how it also has this stupid boppy tactical music while Six is like... Stepping over the corpses of butchered civilians, lmao

hot zodiac
empty bloom
#

So marty didn't write it, but he thought it was fine.

hot zodiac
#

Basically, yep

empty bloom
#

lmao

unique rune
#

and now his campaign ads keep popping up on my Twitter feed

empty bloom
unique rune
#

yeah that's fair

empty bloom
#

As much as I hate him, it's against the rules to talk about politics.

#

Even politics that want people like me to not exist.

unique rune
#

just another thing to add to the "wow I'm glad I never bought into his hype" pile

but I digress

wispy pewter
#

I don't think WW3 happened in the halo universe

unique rune
#

I mean, nothing called World War III happened in the Halo universe.

#

Plenty of other conflicts though.

earnest walrus
#

hey does anyone know witch volume the Kurt dies in ghost of onyx

wispy pewter
#

huh ONI has made contact with the spirit of fire?

carmine sleet
#

If you mean the Ferrets, they don't exactly have any way of sending a message back to the rest of the UNSC

wispy pewter
#

I see... so there are 3 extra spartans on the Spirit of fire now

carmine sleet
#

Two, one of the Ferrets died

wispy pewter
#

I think I will read that book

#

uhh

#

divine something

carmine sleet
#

Devine Wind

wispy pewter
#

yeah

stoic hamlet
#

Calling them Ferrets is such an odd exception to me. It’s not really proper.

You wouldn’t call a member of Noble Team “one of the Nobles”.

orchid kettle
#

one of them dirty Nobles

#

always looking down on Peasant Team

carmine sleet
stoic hamlet
#

But no other team is referred to as such. Ferret is a program, I suppose technically a designation of a skill set, but it’s not really apt to refer to them as “ferrets”. At least, I don’t think so.

orchid kettle
#

I saw "Ferret" as more like "ODSTs" and "Headhunters"

#

where there could be multiple Ferret teams, we're just following this one consisting of Saber + Veta

solemn oxide
#

What happened to Colonel Holland and did he survive

gusty star
#

We don’t know

sonic lagoon
#

How altered can a human be to use Forerunner artifacts? Obviously modern humans and Spartans can use them. Can a human more heavily altered use them or is there a limit to how genetically modified they can be to use Forerunner artifacts?

unique rune
#

I mean, anyone can figure out how to use Forerunner stuff eventually.
The Covenant aren't human and they sure managed it for years.

stoic hamlet
#

Being human is kind of like having a cheat sheet.

But you don’t need to be human.

bronze prawn
#

are all humans reclaimers ?

#

or are all reclaimers humans ?

empty bloom
#

Yes.

sonic lagoon
#

So can human flood combat forms use Forerunner technology?

bronze prawn
#

thats actually a very interesting question

empty bloom
#

It seems to run on Subnautica rules

#

Where infected personnel cannot properly interface with most equipment.

versed helm
#

I thought the flood’s usage of technology and weaponry was dependent on the memory based knowledge accessible through the host or collective knowledge via whatever is controlling the specific infection, like a (proto) gravemind

#

could be wrong though, don’t quote me on it

carmine sleet
#

Forerunner technology has failsafes to prevent Flood infected individuals from interacting with it

versed helm
#

The only part of the flood that confuses me, just in general would be its origin. I have a rough, sort of cursory understanding of it, but the way they went about explaining it in Greg Bear’s forerunner saga novels threw me for a bit of a loop

#

from what I understand, the infection itself derives from the precursors some way or another, but the way it mutated and became what we know through the main games happened through many years of mutations through contact with animals and human beings as well as other species, races & life forms, and eventually that reached an extreme point to where it became a galactic threat, and no longer just simply a parasitic infestation

#

I’m still in the process of going through all the lore, beyond what’s available in the games, so maybe there’s more I’m not aware of or realizing

carmine sleet
versed helm
carmine sleet
#

Yes

versed helm
#

So how strong exactly are Spartan prosthetics? (mainly talking about the arm prosthetics, like Kat's arm)

empty bloom
#

And in the case of Spartans with their own prosthetics (including Spartan Kodiak, who wore his prosthetic under his GEN2) that aren't Kat, there is no significant indicator that they are hampered by it, covered or no.

versed helm
#

I see, thank you.

empty bloom
#

I figure it's roughly attuned to their MJOLNIR's strength, with a 'normal' prosthetic used outside of armor, as there's visibly a sort of sealed 'plug' in the armor for the limb on observed Spartans.

versed helm
#

Hm.

empty bloom
#

After all, smashing visors like Kat says isn't that impressive. Chief shattered his Mark IV visor by accident (though I think this says way more about Mark IV's lesser durability than it does about John's strength in it), Locke smashes Chief's visor with a backhand after beating on him for a bit.

#

There's plenty of examples to go around that say MJOLNIR visors aren't that strong.

versed helm
#

That is true.

#

Though if it the prosthetic arm does have some kind of "extra strength", that would be pretty neat.

empty bloom
#

I'm sure it'd be possible, but general philosophy is to avoid that due to imbalance and overreliance.

#

I mean personally I think incorporating like, a gun or something into it, would be a totally valid move.

#

It'd likely also help more than, say, counterweights.

versed helm
#

That's a solid statement right there.

unborn patrol
#

My spartans lore is he never wears helmets with open visors due to that being a weak spot

stoic hamlet
unborn patrol
#

I know

#

But like was just discussed its often a weak spot

orchid kettle
#

what did they mean by this

#

I feel like sometimes 343 takes stuff like this a little too seriously

empty bloom
#

I mean, if we're asking questions like that, the answer's always going to be for the sake of redundancy.

#

Not to mention, Spartans weren't originally a packaged deal with MJOLNIR, and they don't always deploy with MJOLNIR, so there's plenty of opportunity for those eye augs to be relevant. I think you're actually not taking this seriously enough.

#

Especially considering that's... Not originally 343i's lore, that's actually pretty old.

orchid kettle
#

“Because of this UNSC-wide mobilization,” Vice Admiral Stanforth continued, “your training schedule will be accelerated to its final phase: Project MJOLNIR.”

empty bloom
#

And the fact MJOLNIR existed early enough to be used as a wrestling doll for the IIs.

#

So I'm gonna chalk that down to a difference of perception.

orchid kettle
#

Mark I in Fall of Reach isnt Mjolnir

#

its Hrunting

#

We've apparently never actually seen Marks I-III of Mjolnir

empty bloom
#

Doesn't really do anything to invalidate my point that the eyes augs are still useful even if they're just 'looking at a screen', though.

orchid kettle
#

Halsey says as well that she's basically scrapped everything about HRUNTING and started MJOLNIR from scratch

empty bloom
#

So another dollar in the "Halsey's a moron about how she ran things" jar.

orchid kettle
#

We've also had this discussion before, but I'd again point to the moment in Fall of Reach where Blue Team attempts to board the first Covenant ship they encountered, and Chief is nearly blinded by the ship's pulse laser

#

With the narration claiming his visor polarizing itself is what saved his eyes

#

Which kinda implies that he's looking at the light source a lot more directly than merely viewing it through a screen

#

a video of the sun can't blind you, after all

empty bloom
#

Could also be a later development done for that exact reason.

#

Because to me that'd be a hell of a wake-up call that I'd consider worth fixing.

orchid kettle
#

The visor can also physically retract back into the helmet, so it'd be a bit of a weakpoint regardless

#

Since the helmet then isn't one solid construction

empty bloom
#

That's still so dumb.

#

I hate retractible visors in fiction.

orchid kettle
#

Chief's got those high premium transition lenses, I guess

#

Honestly you could argue that the best thing to do is to just have the viewscreen be the part that can retract when needed

#

That way if Chief's cameras are on the fritz, he can just then look out the visor without taking his helmet off

empty bloom