#lore-and-universe

1 messages · Page 64 of 1

obsidian thistle
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Then he used it to name Waypoint Forum posts

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Then he joined 343i

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And used the name for his official blog posts!

ionic star
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Fact: humans ARE forerunner as Bungie confirmed, meaning 343's halo ISNT CANON to the story and is an alternate universe of similar events.

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[and it wasnt confirmed only in the books for us being forerunners]

meager pier
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She's trolling him

empty bloom
obsidian thistle
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Lets nae argue about that here please. Regardless of what the sources say, (and trust me theres a lot) there is far more interesting discussions on lore to be had! 😄

last anchor
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I for one like that the Librarian rides on her husband's helmet
Something something Forerunner girl-boss

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Slay Lifeshaper, SLAY

topaz tide
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Is the didacts speech in halo 4 at the end a reference to an old speech when they first met the humans?

bronze prawn
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hard to tell

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Is not even sure who is he speaking to

wispy pewter
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really want to see what happened to the infinity

charred comet
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I just discovered ||the SPDR AI from I Love Bees runs the counterintrusion software in Chief's armor.||

Though I was super young around that time, it still makes me super happy to know our boi makes it back home.

meager pier
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Though the canon status of elements of ilb is very strange

last anchor
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Oi. Trenchbirb. You think you could pull off a Highlander Burial with a Mantis if you gave it jump jets?

empty bloom
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Yes, that is not a misread, the Mantis is 18' yet only weighs 5 tons.

last anchor
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We need to up those numbers, that things not even Light Mech weight

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It's so SLOW for that too...

ruby canopy
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I was just thinking, I’m shocked a hunter weighs more than a mantis

last anchor
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If it's gonna be 5 tons it's gotta be able to hit like, 180 kph

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Let this thing Locust

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(BT Locust not Halo Locust)

empty bloom
last anchor
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And spaceship plating. The shield alone is like one ton isn't jt

empty bloom
last anchor
empty bloom
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We're talking sideslipping and stuff in a mech

charred comet
# meager pier Though the canon status of elements of ilb is very strange

It definitely suffers from a rather strange case of celebrity paradox. Imagine getting thrown back to the 90s and the first thing you see when you walk through the door of a grocery store is a doom clone where you play as a Seal Team Six member fighting your way through a building to kill Bin Laden.

last anchor
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Especially with a Spartan driver cause they plug right in

empty bloom
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Technically, there's not a lot actually different between a dedicated Mantis driver and a Spartan short of the Spartan getting more out of the machine being a machine.

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Owing to reaction time and other minute physical gestalt traits.

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The Mantis' crewman is supposed to have a dedicated vehicular link, which is what the SoF's Mantises explicitly were incapable of mounting.

last anchor
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And the nerual interface connection being deeper than most non Spartans

meager pier
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Plus, not a fan of time travel in Halo

ruby canopy
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What were those mechs in the halo wars 2 teaser trailer. They seemed pretty fast

empty bloom
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Cyclops MkIIs.

ruby canopy
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Ah

last anchor
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Very pog design for em too

empty bloom
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Don't uh... Don't try to make sense of that whole design lineage.

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The excuses are made up and if I'm being honest, HW2 lore is very slapdash.

last anchor
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Artistic upgrade to make em look cooler.
I love the MKIIs look

empty bloom
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Frankly, it makes me wish 343i was as consistently cavalier as GW about design updates.

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"It was always like that. Shut up."

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Or "It was a different model of the same thing made at the same time used at the same place. Shut up."

charred comet
# meager pier Plus, not a fan of time travel in *Halo*

I can see how it happens, considering the main method of FTL travel is going into another dimension (which gives room for a lot of hand-waves). Honestly I just chalk it up to multiverse stuff, and the A.I. discovering this "offscreen" and figuring it out themselves.

last anchor
empty bloom
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They do it, yeah

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I'm just saying that I don't think they do it as eagerly

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I mean, granted, I'm very... Anti-Halo fan.

meager pier
charred comet
# meager pier And with it mainly being a marketing piece for *Halo 2*, I chalk it up to just a...

I like multiverse as an idea, but I agree that my little headcanon used to patch up a plot hole in I Love Bees should maybe be the most egregious example of it in Halo. If brought to the forefront, multiverse theory tends to sort of steal the spotlight. We don't need Across the Haloverse. At most, it should be like Fractures. "What if Halo but WW1?" "What if Halo but mechs?" "What Astartes chapter would Master Chief be in?"

Just little peeks into different worlds. But NEVER letting them overlap with the one that we're mainly focused on.

meager pier
# charred comet I like multiverse as an idea, but I agree that my little headcanon used to patch...

The multiverse I feel always takes some weight to stakes of what’s going on in the story when they go, “well, in another universe, things are fine in another universe”
With Fractures, I’m fine with it, as they’re not actually part of a Halo multiverse, but just fun versions of “imagine if Halo was like this”
And the multiverse seems to have all different kinds of universes popping up, as Fred witnesses new universes being born and destroyed to power Forerunner devices
And ofc, the time travel thing makes me go, “well, why didn’t the Forerunners use it to stop the Flood?” Opens up a whole can of worms

empty bloom
charred comet
charred comet
meager pier
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@charred comet And makes wonder, if they were able to destroy universes, why didn’t they attempt to flee to one to escape the Flood? Granted, other universes might have physics & properties so different than our own, that the Forerunners wouldn’t be able to survive

charred comet
ruby canopy
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If it is indeed possible, I could see the forerunners being capable of it with their technology

unique rune
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I feel like universe-hopping to escape the Flood is just. Kind of useless? Given that if the Forerunners could figure it out, the Flood absolutely would do the same eventually, especially at the height of their power. At best they buy themselves a little bit of extra time before subjecting another universe to the Flood.

ruby canopy
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If anyone is interested in that theory I recommend checking out quantum tunneling

meager pier
empty bloom
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And people wonder why I cash out of Forerunner lore.

wispy pewter
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i like ancient humans thing in halo

unique rune
topaz tide
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How long was master chief asleep for during reach? Why wasnt he waken up there?

unique rune
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He was awake and busy dealing with other things during the battle of Reach.

topaz tide
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On reach itself? Or on the ship?

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I know he was woken up to fend off a covenant attack in CE but couldnt find much pre CE info

unique rune
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He was on the other side of the planet testing out the Mark V armor in preparation for RED FLAG during the Covenant attack on Reach.

topaz tide
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Ahh, I see, so thats why he ran with the autumn and went into cryosleep for the slipspace jump?

unique rune
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Shortly after he was deployed to Gamma Station to deal with a Cole Protocol violation before the Pillar of Autumn departed. He went into cryo after that.

carmine sleet
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Aye, not like him being active in the same area as Noble Team were would've changed all that much anyway, Reach was going to fall regardless of where he was deployed

empty bloom
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🫵🤯

topaz tide
# bronze prawn hard to tell

listening to it a couple more times and a bit of research it kind of sounds like a speech he made when humanity was approaching them before they learned of the flood

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since they viewed humanity as a force that was expanding agressively and progressing very fast

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the didact didnt want to give up the mantle of responsibility

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correct me if im wrong tho

orchid kettle
quasi jacinth
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With playing MCC, Is Campaign actually in chronological order shown for the timeline? Reach-CE-2-3-ODST-4?

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I've played all the Halos before, but so long ago I never actually understood the story properly lol

last anchor
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Closer to release order. Proper chronological would be reach-CE-first half of 2 (up till Metropolis)-ODST-Second half of 2, 3, 4.

willow lava
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YALL I JUST JOINED IM SO HAPPY THERES A SERVER JUST FOR HALO

unreal cosmos
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Theres a few

willow lava
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Noice

orchid kettle
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and I'm in all of them

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infecting them with my terrible takes

unreal cosmos
willow lava
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I wanna join the hiddenxperia server

unreal cosmos
willow lava
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And Marty O’Donnells server

carmine sleet
orchid kettle
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yes i am Venom

formal patrol
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oh god the flood of opinions

orchid kettle
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the eminem song

carmine sleet
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Explains why I could suddenly hear the song

prisma oasis
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There sure needs to be more appearances (or mentions) of the Flood Juggernaut in the Halo stories because the Flood Juggernaut has got to have been deployed in other battles involving the Flood including the Forerunner-Flood war and I expect that a future novel could possibly reveal that. The Flood Juggernaut is part of the Flood family. So, I expect to make more appearances/mentions in the future and not just be in Halo: Fireteam Raven and Halo Wars 2.

last anchor
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The issue is balance; its a big boss enemy and most Flood forms arent exactly that.
The Pure forms are as close as we get and even those are surprisingly squishy even on higher difficulties if you have the right weaponry

bronze prawn
last anchor
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Energy sword and actually, a Brute Shot melee.
Im pretty sure the melee from Brute weapons does like, 1.5 times damage

unique rune
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I dunno what you’d even get out of more Juggernaut appearances. “It was there and it was big and it waved its tentacles around and then it died”

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They sure Juggernautted the hell out of those Forerunners during that one battle during the thing

gusty star
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He didn’t think that far ahead

stoic hamlet
carmine sleet
# prisma oasis There sure needs to be more appearances (or mentions) of the Flood Juggernaut in...

They definitely were in the Forerunner-Flood War but there's not much point delving into that conflict anymore since we know so much about it now, finding out that a specific enemy type was on a specific planet isn't exactly gonna be a groundbreaking revelation. Not to mention that the Flood are kinda rigid as antagonists since they're so singularly focused on the goal of consuming all life, bringing them back again is just gonna make them seem more akin to a Saturday morning cartoon villain opposed to the actual threat they do present since we've stopped the Flood multiple times throughout the series

prisma oasis
carmine sleet
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It was a bit more than lacking death anims that meant it didn't make it in

unique rune
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Yeah I think the process is a little backwards there. The death animations likely weren't made because the Juggernaut was cut at some other point in development, not the other way around.

hardy vigil
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Guys who would win, d2 verse or halo verse

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Both the bungo games

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I think destiny 2 wins ngl

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Uh

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@marble lion

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You've been typing for a long time

marble lion
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I think the Juggernaut was cut out most likely due to the deadline release date for H2. Had Halo 2 came out in Spring or Summer of 05 it might been possible for the Flood Juggernaut to made the cut.

carmine sleet
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I doubt a Titan could shield against that

hardy vigil
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The guardians can be infinite rezzed

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And pretty sure nobody has a weapon of sorrow

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So nobody can destroy the ghoat

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And the supers r pretty damn powerful

carmine sleet
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Bungie's been inconsistent on what can kill ghosts, sometimes you need a specific magic bullet, other times it's just regular bullets

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Or a hand

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A regular hand

hardy vigil
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That delends

carmine sleet
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Or a magic hand

marble lion
hardy vigil
carmine sleet
hardy vigil
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And the mc guardian is pretty powerful

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Strand is ridiculously complicated

unique rune
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Yeah, I’m not seeing any defined reason that it was cut, but I don’t think the unfinished death animations would’ve been it.

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If anything there probably would’ve been like a dozen separate reasons that all came together to result in it being axed

marble lion
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Fair enough. One question. If Bungie was given more time on H2 and the release date was pushed to Spring or Summer of 05. Would the Flood Juggernaut had made the final cut?

empty bloom
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Are we Bungie?

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Yes?

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No?

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Maybe?

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Answer's "Whatever was more important to development".

unique rune
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That’s… hard to say with any reasonable amount of confidence. Not without knowing the main reasons behind its removal.

If the “forerunnertank” mission had been kept, I could maybe see the Juggernaut also making it?

But if Bungie cut the Juggernaut because they thought it just sucked as an enemy or messed up the pacing or it had some other fundamental flaw…

carmine sleet
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Like, dev teams would love to be allowed to do so much, sadly they don't always get the opportunity to do so thanks to factors out of their control, like budgets and time

last anchor
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Making any project tends to result in cut material.

exotic pike
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Aren't the Spartan III's the weakest ones?

empty bloom
exotic pike
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Hmm... so they are capable of everything the IIs are?

carmine sleet
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Yes

empty bloom
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I really wish people would stop being so damn annoying about "What Spartan is stronger!?"

carmine sleet
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The biggest differences come in the armour they wore, since the IIIs didn't get given access to Mjolnir as standard

empty bloom
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I get the 'I want easy answer!' angle but that's a goofy angle

carmine sleet
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And even then there's exceptions like Noble Team's Spartan IIIs

exotic pike
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Okay, do any of the average spartans have any specialties not present in other gens

carmine sleet
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Though I would assume that in post war, most IIIs are outfitted with Mjolnir armour

carmine sleet
empty bloom
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Spartan IVs in general are more specialized and varied in outlook.

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You also don't usually deploy Spartans without power armor, which is kind of the entire point of Spartandom at this point.

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There's also the beta Spartan IVs, who could physically beat a Spartan wearing MJOLNIR like a rented mule.

exotic pike
carmine sleet
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They also went insane

empty bloom
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She went insane. The other ones all died.

exotic pike
empty bloom
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She had a massive amount of augs specifically meant to make her stronger than a normal Spartan in MJOLNIR.

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As to how well they worked... Well, she overpowered a Spartan in MJOLNIR, but she also never got shot, so we know she can at least punch harder.

carmine sleet
empty bloom
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Ilsa Zane is... Really weird.

carmine sleet
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Yeah...

ruby canopy
empty bloom
ruby canopy
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I find it odd that mjolnir doesn’t multiply her physical attributes by a considerable amount

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Only slightly, if anything at all

empty bloom
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It's kind of a dumb plot line, is all.

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People say 'all of Escalation is dumb!' but it's really only the Ilsa Zane and N72H stuff that's dumb.

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I should know, I actually read the whole damn thing instead of listening to some weirdo's plot synopsis.

ruby canopy
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I’m not the biggest fan of comics so I have to listen to reviews of them

carmine sleet
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Thought Ilsa came from Initiation, not Escalation?

empty bloom
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I generally (accidentally) fold them together.

carmine sleet
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Fair

wispy pewter
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wouldn't it be easier to produce the same style of Armor than different one for every spartan IV

empty bloom
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One size does not fit all, and a big draw of IVs is drawing from a far, far more diverse talent pool than Spartan IIs or IIIs.

unique rune
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Isn’t that… kinda what GEN2 was doing anyway? Most of MJOLNIR’s basic functions were handled by the bodysuit, the specializations were all just modular components on top of that.

empty bloom
wispy pewter
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the red team armor is just so... simple and cool. Master Chief still wears the green armor

empty bloom
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There are many things I would call Mark IV. Simple looking is not one.

last anchor
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MK IV is basically slab plate.

obsidian thistle
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GEN1 is like the early years of PC development. Tuning it till its actually ok/decent.

GEN2 is more akin to specialised computers of said development end point in GEN1.

GEN3 is akin when computers became viable to the public and other groups to make. GEN3 becoming more standards that could be followed. Some may follow these standards. Others may not (them being more Mjolnir or Mjolnir adjacent at that point)

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In regards to Mark IV. There is a LOT of Mark IV variants. (Mostly from before it was named Mark IV.)

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(14 suits of Mark IV for those curious)

20240421_091141.jpg
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Now sure we saw hints of what I said in GEN3 in GEN1 and 2.

GEN1 had Hayabusa, GEN2 had corporations make Mjolnir if they had money, GEN2 even had two sets Buccaneer and Shinobi that were found...

But it wasnt common till GEN3 when the floodgates opened.

wispy pewter
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is there a reason they dont produce the SPI armor for all marines

obsidian thistle
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Money

empty bloom
red grove
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u see how in dune slow objects can pass through shields would that apply to halo shields

empty bloom
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Which... Was always dumb, IMO, shields should be on at all times for the reason the book literally directly provided.

red grove
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and the mk 1 hurunting

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bcs those only pop out when a atack is placed

unique rune
red grove
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can mkvb power source two a power drain of two mjolnir suits

unique rune
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You’re going to have to explain what literally any of that is supposed to mean

red grove
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does the power sorce of mkvb able to power the suit by 2x

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and some guy told me that energy shields alone cost more than a full suit of mjolnir

carmine sleet
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Are you saying the power source can power up two suits separately?

unique rune
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I don’t know where they got that given that we have zero info on UNSC shield generator costs

In any case typical MJOLNIR is powered by a small fusion reactor, so…

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On Mk. IV it had an expected service life of 15 years and it’s gone unspecified for later models

empty bloom
versed helm
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How exactly would an elite theoretically consume soup?

bronze prawn
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like any other drink i guess

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swallowed it probably

versed helm
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I see.

carmine sleet
versed helm
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Anyone else think the Rakshasa core is missing a "backpack" part? I just feel like it's missing something akin to what an ODST wears on their back.
Anyone else think that?

empty bloom
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No. That is a completely and wholly original idea.

south matrix
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If Vladimir Makarov of the MW-verse is augmented as a Spartan 4. Will he have a chance against Chief?

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or any of the enemies in Halo universe

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I want to see how he handles grunts

unique rune
empty bloom
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I mean, I doubt he'd do any worse than any random nameless IV could. So a chance, just... Not an amazing one, admittedly.

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Locke did pretty damn good, but Locke's Locke, not Makarov.

south matrix
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Makorov has the brains so ye

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He's pretty fast for that guy

empty bloom
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Friendly reminder that Jerome has less combat experience than most Spartan IVs

south matrix
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Then what if Price becomes a Spartan?

empty bloom
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And that Buck has more combat experience than the entirity of Red Team combined

bronze prawn
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isnt jerome one of the most bad--- spartans 2s ?

empty bloom
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Yes.

south matrix
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what about Buck vs Price

empty bloom
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I don't care.

south matrix
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as spartans

empty bloom
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Uh, Price kills Buck with Unicorn flatulence and nae nae's on his corpse or whatever.

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This ain't DBZ, dude.

south matrix
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I'm still figuring out the strongest in MW verse to take on Banished

empty bloom
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And you'd have a better time pissing into the wind.

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More constructive at any rate

empty bloom
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Like, a lot of IVs have more individual combat experience against the Covenant than Red Team's individuals. Some even would have more experience as Spartans against the Covenant.

south matrix
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Who can match up to Chief in a hand to hand combat situation?

empty bloom
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A lot of people.

south matrix
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"Remember, No Grussian"

empty bloom
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Guh.

carmine sleet
south matrix
empty bloom
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Would a character with an arbitrary power gain gain arbitrary power?

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I mean, sure

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Problably

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Would they beat a character with other abritrary power?

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Problably?

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Dunno?

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It's like asking who would win, a Ford F-350 or a terminal cancer patient with 350 kilos of C4 strapped to them with a dead man's switch about to get slowly crushed against a wall by said F-350.

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Like, does it matter?

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The truck's still gonna blow up, the guy's still gonna explode, and you'll have learned nothing because there was nothing to really learn.

south matrix
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nevermind. forget it.....

bronze prawn
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someone wake up cranky

empty bloom
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Who would win, Superman 1 million or Saitama?

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Same vibe. Doesn't matter, both are OP for plot reasons because... Well, why the hell not, let's roll the dice.

carmine sleet
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Anyway, I prefer seeing characters getting along, like give me Chief and Samus being really good friends bonding over trauma. Give me Batman going over to Superman's home for a meal. Give me Lara Croft being helped by Wonder Woman with exploring tombs. Making everyone fight one another is boring

versed helm
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Okay, but I do have ONE discussion piece that I want to bring up...

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Predator vs Arbiter

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Who would win or who is more awesome?

unique rune
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they should kiss

versed helm
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I agree with you.

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i mean-

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That's your opinion and I respect your opinion.

carmine sleet
empty bloom
carmine sleet
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I mean- Which Arbiter and Predator?

empty bloom
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That too.

versed helm
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That's a good question.

empty bloom
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Ripa versus Wolf? I'd say Wolf.

versed helm
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What about Wolf vs Vadam?

empty bloom
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Thel takes it.

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Part of the issue with asking about Makarov or whoever is like

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You're also adding an arbitrary upgrade

bronze prawn
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i got a good one with more "respect"

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tharwn and his seventh fleet vs thel and the fleet of particular justice

south matrix
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Ripa vs Thel. Duel to death

empty bloom
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Thel.

versed helm
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Thel.

carmine sleet
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Thel even when his fleet was small would beat Thrawn

empty bloom
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Like, it isn't even a contest, Ripa's more of a physical bully who I'd say is more in like, Gek's league than Thel's.

versed helm
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What about Jega vs Ripa?

empty bloom
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Jega.

carmine sleet
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Jega easily

empty bloom
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Like

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Shorthand

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In terms of combatives

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Top dogs are gonna be Thel, Jega.

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Chak, Gek, a few others are pretty solidly in the middle

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Jul's actually near the bottom in terms of high ranking elites, amusingly

carmine sleet
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All talk, no bite

empty bloom
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Guy spends almost his entire career getting the crap kicked out of him.

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"He shoulda beat Locke in melee!"

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Right

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Locke

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The guy who canonically bodychecks a Banshee and wins would lose to Jul.

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Sure.

versed helm
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I'm just saying, I don't know why he thought "I should try to take down the Master Chief" was a good idea.

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I just don't get it.

empty bloom
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And IVs in armor equal IIs in armor. Chief's not actually particularly exceptional outside of things he mostly managed to get done via luck and having bigger, more important things happening next to him.

versed helm
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That's fair.

bronze prawn
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the way chief grabs and breaks locke guns in his head is still cool AF

empty bloom
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I still like that Locke's first response after that is to just throw hands in kind lmao

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Like, parts of that fight are neat

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Not the whole thing, but both parties had a pretty good showing.

carmine sleet
empty bloom
carmine sleet
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Also true

versed helm
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True.

empty bloom
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So it hardly surprises me that people forget that Locke was acting in his own defense after starting with reason.

carmine sleet
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I think people just forget that about Locke in general, yeah he's an effective assassin and soldier, but he's also someone who will talk first if he's able to in a situation

empty bloom
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Well, what's dumb to me is like, parts of Locke are straight up literally what people wanted IVs to be.

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After Majestic.

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They said Spartans were quiet, competent professionals with a good head on their shoulders.

carmine sleet
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Like, even in Nightfall, back when he was ONI, he was much more likely to talk and work with Sedra's military than all the other members of his team

empty bloom
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And Locke is a consummate professional leader archtype to the degree of him being just flatly boring.

bronze prawn
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honestly if youre sended to hunt THE master chief, you better try dialogue first

empty bloom
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5, you mean.

versed helm
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5, yes.

carmine sleet
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Yeah Locke ain't in 4

versed helm
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My brain stopped working.

empty bloom
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Like, Locke almost won that fight, in case people forgot (They did).

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He was managing to overpower Chief in the grapple for the locking device until Chief headbutted him.

bronze prawn
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the hate that the 4s received blind the people of their actual good skills

empty bloom
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That and misinfo.

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Apparently, on the old NEOgaf forums, Frank O'Connor said he legitimately thought IVs were straight up unaugmented Marines in MJOLNIR.

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Which, is insane

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Clearly

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It wasn't even the case when he said that, them being augmented was always canon from square go

versed helm
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Speaking of Locke, do you guys think he's dead based on the easter egg in Infinite's campaign?

empty bloom
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No.

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I'd certainly hope they don't make that bad of a decision.

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Fingers crossed for Empty Throne not doing anything dumb

unique rune
empty bloom
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This was nearly a decade ago now

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Actually

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Might be over

carmine sleet
empty bloom
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It kinda massaged the blow of Osiris effectively disbanding to learn it's apparently like Apollo and has a very fluid comp.

carmine sleet
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Like give me a Locke spin-off where him and a small team of marines are surviving in a jungle environment on Zeta

empty bloom
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I actually had an idea a while ago of Tanaka fighting through like, an arctic area of the ring gathering tech to upgrade her armor while also trying to find what happened to Locke.

carmine sleet
carmine sleet
versed helm
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"Rambo: Halo Edition"?

empty bloom
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With the quartet of 5 being chosen explicitly for Kamchatka then kept together for the Blue Team and Sanghelios ops.

carmine sleet
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Huh. The more you know

empty bloom
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From how it sounds, the IV Fireteams named after gods are all like this?

carmine sleet
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Does make me question why they painted the fireteam's logo on their armour if it's more fluid

empty bloom
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Because Apollo's the same way

empty bloom
carmine sleet
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Fair

empty bloom
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Neat factoid

#

Osiris' logo incorporates each member's unique former org's logo.

carmine sleet
#

That I did know and love!

versed helm
#

That is pretty neat.

empty bloom
#

I also have an Osiris bumper sticker on my car.

#

And Tanaka is my favorite Spartan.

carmine sleet
#

Oh to have a Halo bumper sticker...

carmine sleet
#

Of all Spartans, it's a tie between all the members of Grey Team

empty bloom
#

I like Vale.

#

Probably the most unique IV.

versed helm
#

There is a joke with Vale that I could very easily make, I'm not going to...
But there certainly is one that can be made.

empty bloom
#

Hmn.

#

But yeah someone actually made a pretty good idea for like

#

A Halo Wars 2 character FPS

#

Where you play as a IV who somehow got attached to Red Team post-Ark

#

And the concept of that dynamic was actually really cool

carmine sleet
empty bloom
#

Huh, neat. Didn't know that.

versed helm
#

Well congratulations to them.

carmine sleet
#

Laura Bailey and Travis Willingham

empty bloom
#

Didn't take his name?

carmine sleet
#

She did not

empty bloom
#

Makes sense tbh

carmine sleet
#

If anything I'm more surprised he didn't take her's

empty bloom
#

Imagine having 'ham' in your last name

#

Couldn't be me

versed helm
#

We all have preferences in life.

empty bloom
#

But yeah I generally like canon where Spartan Gens, especially ones with vastly different life styles, interact.

#

I'm admittedly hoping we see less gen segregation in fireteams in the future just so see how, say, a III Gamma, a II, a IV, and a III Alpha bounced off eachother.

versed helm
#

Spartan Equality, love to see it.

carmine sleet
#

Could be a good excuse to put Jun back in Mjolnir

empty bloom
#

Now'd certainly be the time.

#

Guerrilla ops with Jun, Madsen, Lucy, and Naomi.

carmine sleet
#

Trench, get out my head, I was about to say that

#

It's messy enough in there

empty bloom
#

Good god, Madsen's inferiority complex would be working overtime.

#

Poor guy.

carmine sleet
#

He'll live

empty bloom
#

But yeah major intergen squads would honestly work out neat. Every gen would have something to learn from the others.

carmine sleet
#

I kinda wish we got something like that in Halo 5. Like only Chief is rogue and Osiris is working with the rest of Blue to find him and we see the IIs acting as mentors of sorts to Osiris

empty bloom
#

Buck getting pissed because he's the same age as Blue Team

carmine sleet
#

He's just questioning everything when one of them jokes about beginning active service when they were a teen

empty bloom
#

I'll admit that a joking self-jab about Buck belonging in the old folk's home with the rest of Blue Team doesn't sound out of character for him.

carmine sleet
#

I could see Fillion just saying that in real life

versed helm
#

Speaking of 5, I remember somebody saying there was audio log made by a female elite?
Was that a thing and I just don't remember or have I been gaslighted?

empty bloom
#

There's a few comm transmissions with an elite Woman, yeah.

#

She flies the phantom you show up on and stuff

carmine sleet
#

Good old Makee, glad she appeared again in that short story from when Prism was added

empty bloom
#

Thel's very proactive about expanding the cultural bounds of Sangheili culture after learning from humans, even started implementing combat medics into his ranks to destroy that cultural stigma.

versed helm
#

Yet, they never showed her...
They must've been afraid of kickstarting "something" within the community.

empty bloom
#

No, just didn't want to make an asset for a character you wouldn't see.

#

She spends the entire game in her phantom, no reason to give her a model.

#

And even if they made a model you'd only see it like twice.

carmine sleet
#

Likely more just not having the time and resources to model a female Elite and that's why she was in the Phantom only, similar to why Arbiter is the wrong Elite phenotype in 5

versed helm
#

I could see that.

#

But did she sound any different from the other elites?

empty bloom
#

More feminine voice.

#

So softer and lighter pitched.

versed helm
#

One moment, I must do "research".

empty bloom
#

Please don't say it like that

carmine sleet
#

Just look up the level Swords of Sanghelios from Halo 5

#

Or Enemy Lines

versed helm
#

So THAT'S what she sounds like.

#

...I like it.

empty bloom
carmine sleet
#

That's why he's the best character

empty bloom
#

I recently read a massive set of books on that subject for how we did that, and it's super fascinating.

carmine sleet
#

Along with just having one of the best story arcs in a Halo game

empty bloom
#

Apparently it evolved from mercenary/army bands and cooks/cleaners, who actually had a surprisingly egalitarian perspective on combat and defense of the camp even in the dark ages.

#

Hence why I say Thel is speedrunning it; Sangheili women already did that in spirit at Sanghelios keeps, he just started doing the quiet part out loud.

versed helm
#

Speaking of Thel, what do you think how he's represented in Killer Instinct?

carmine sleet
#

That's not Thel in KI

versed helm
#

I'm stupid.

carmine sleet
#

That's meant to just be a representative of an Arbiter

versed helm
#

Oh, so it's just a generalized "Arbiter"?

#

Man, why does this keep happening?

#

But yeah, I think the Arbiter in KI is pretty cool.

empty bloom
#

I kinda thing Jega was wasted in Infinite's plotline as a character tbh.

versed helm
#

Speaking of Jega, you guys think he's dead?

empty bloom
#

Nah.

carmine sleet
#

He should've been seen in the distance watching Chief during gameplay at least

#

And yeah, Jega lives

versed helm
#

I thought he "faked death" too.

#

Why else would he be the only boss(last time I checked) to go invisible after dying?

empty bloom
#

He is the only one yeah

carmine sleet
#

He's already almost been killed by Spartans before, he's smart for not sticking round at the end of that fight against Chief

empty bloom
#

I think that Hyperius is kind of in the same situation of being completely wasted.

versed helm
#

That man's gonna come back like a slasher villain.

empty bloom
#

Like, that really should've been Locke's kill, narratively.

empty bloom
versed helm
#

Understandable opinion.

empty bloom
#

It's hilarious that Rubicon also showcases that IVs may die but they sure as hell don't go out quiet.

carmine sleet
versed helm
#

I once saw someone say that Jega possibly watched Escharum die.

carmine sleet
#

So similar to Griffin but with the armour on

empty bloom
#

Mako freshly killed, Sorel still bleeding out with a screwdriver in a dead elite's neck.

carmine sleet
#

I'm gonna have to incorporate that in my Infinite rewrite I have been thinking about doing

versed helm
#

The Banished with an M rating would be exquisite.

empty bloom
#

I also liked the part of Sorel's dialogue where he's just so damn confident.

carmine sleet
#

Rating ain't that important to how good the game is

empty bloom
#

Guy's bleeding out from a major gut wound, gaslighting himself when he knows Mako is dead behind him.

#

Sees two Spartan Killers and their entourage and squares up.

#

and takes out nearly thirty Banished when mortally wounded in melee.

carmine sleet
#

Like so far I've focused on stuff later in the campaign as I think after Pelican Down would've been a great place for Lasky to appear leading some of the UNSC forces, but I definitely need to look at the deaths of the IVs we find and see how I can incorporate them in the story more

last anchor
versed helm
#

Do you think incorporating Arbiter in Infinite's campaign is a good move, in your opinion?

empty bloom
#

No.

#

I think it's actually really bad.

versed helm
#

How so?

empty bloom
#

It worked in 5 because the plot for it made sense-The Covenant religion is huge on Sanghelios and of course they'd covet a guardian, and he and Locke both know Locke's only helping because Locke has his own mission.

#

With the Created conflict still raging and Banished encroaching on his doorstep independently of Atriox, why would he go to Zeta to put out a fire that's practically in Zimbabwe to him?

#

He's a state actor now, not just a true warrior.

#

He can't afford to galavant about by his lonesome or even take forces he needs to defend his home with.

versed helm
#

That makes sense.

empty bloom
#

And it'd be out of character-if there's one thing Thel is, he's actually a really damn competent statesman.

#

He pushed for an alliance with humans and worked with them even if both sides did so with clenched teeth.

#

And both heavily benefitted from that.

carmine sleet
#

I could see one of his subordinates being at Zeta, like Nthro, but Thel has to be at home putting out fires there

versed helm
#

"Arbiter: Gaming's Greatest Politician"

empty bloom
#

Unironically yeah, he's pretty damn good at it.

versed helm
#

I'd vote for him.

empty bloom
#

There's a reason he fits like a glove in 343's more politics heavy setting.

versed helm
#

Fair.

empty bloom
#

Hell, Atriox does too even if it feels weird

versed helm
#

I can see that.

empty bloom
#

He's basically space Genghis kahn

versed helm
#

I also see that.

#

So what about the "sending subordinates" possibility, would that make sense or be fitting at all?

empty bloom
#

I mean, it's a Halo ring and super important, so yeah. But the problem is the same problem the Banished have at Zeta.

#

Nobody knows where the hell Zeta is, but wherever it is, it's so damn far that the Banished are stuck too.

carmine sleet
#

Aye. Like part of me hopes that the coordinates sent out at the end of Rubicon Protocol got found by SOS forces, just because I want to see some friendly Elites in the next game, but they need those coordinates first before attempting to reach Zeta

empty bloom
#

The only faction that would make less sense is the Spirit of Fire.

carmine sleet
#

I hate how people seem to think they're gonna show up to help

empty bloom
#

Who are still tied up at The Ark.

empty bloom
carmine sleet
empty bloom
#

I'd be surprised if the created didn't step in at the Ark actually, considering they have a portal RIGHT THERE

#

It'd make sense

carmine sleet
#

Cut Halo Wars 2 Created faction my beloved... If only we got you

empty bloom
#

I'm still pissed about ATN.

#

Undeserving flood, get outta here

versed helm
#

Might be random, but I'm starting to understand the whole "squid face" thing more and more each day.

carmine sleet
versed helm
#

I'm seeing a helmet straight out of a marine life book, specifically talking the variety of squid species.

#

I can't unsee the similarities.

empty bloom
carmine sleet
#

Well some spores survived inside HC after Halo 3 and Solitude sealed it off. Then he died in 2555

versed helm
#

Interesting.

bronze prawn
#

which one makes less sense flood on etran harborage or flood in the ark

#

both received a halo pulse and somehow survive

empty bloom
# bronze prawn both received a halo pulse and somehow survive

One was mostly on the surface and likely recoalesced after not being cleaned. The other survive the premature detonation of the ring, which at this point, it's clear that it really only did the whole Halo thing within its local surface and didn't actually damage the ark with its pulse.

carmine sleet
#

They should've waited a few more days

stoic hamlet
#

The worst is the Saturn Devouring His Son flood reveal.

They should not exist. Their existence proves Halo didn’t work.

empty bloom
#

I guess it kinda makes sense.

#

If the entire point of the flood is the continual harvest of misery and all that.

hot zodiac
#

A lot is still broken in general, but they really gotta save this and retroactively say the Saturn Forerunner ship was some sort of Flood research vessel

#

At the least I'm holding on to hope (or 'cope') that they will

prisma oasis
#

So I’m curious but how much exactly do you guys think the Brute population is right now within the Universe? For me, I imagine that there’s still billions of them throughout galaxies even after Doisac was destroyed.

ruby canopy
#

It did extremely well, just not a total eradication like they hoped it would achieve

timber schooner
#

hamster chief would destroy doom guy

reef orbit
#

Is the book halo glasslands anti-christian?

empty bloom
#

I still find it funny that you got that far into Halo and only now started questioning.

stoic hamlet
reef orbit
#

I don't mean is it atheist because a lot of things I read, watch, or play are atheist but what I mean is is it putting down Christianity specifically

empty bloom
#

Would it matter if it was?

#

(Rhetorical)

reef orbit
#

I know the question was rhetorical but depends on the person

#

For me, as a Christian, it only matters if it makes me doubt God

#

Or changes my beliefs

#

I'm fine if it isn't Christian just not if it says that Christianity is wrong or something like that

empty bloom
#

I don't think I am someone you should be talking to if that is your perspective on your religion.

reef orbit
#

I know that there are Christian characters like Dutch and also non-christian characters like halsey

hot zodiac
#

Of course there obviously efforts to make sure the Covenant is not directly analogous to a specific religion, but you will find references -- it's obviously still the primary source

It's more explicitly 'anti-religion' as a whole than any specific religion

reef orbit
bronze prawn
#

I wonder if the covenant had some sort of bible

reef orbit
#

Lol

hot zodiac
#

I don't think we know if they have a specific 'bible' but they have scripture

empty bloom
#

Agnostic and extremely critical of organized religion. Also decently well read on how it's been used as a power structure in governance.

empty bloom
#

We know some view the flood as a sort of 'forerunner essence', but that is considered a fringe cult that is normally harmless until flood get involved, which is rare but was known well before Alpha Halo.

#

The general theme is that organized religion is typically foundationally used as a means to achieve a power's end, typically for ill, which is a pretty historically accurate usage of organized hierarchal religious power structures.

bronze prawn
#

yeah i remember that crazy shipmaster who wanted to turn their whole crew to the flood

#

as a self punishement or some divine mission something like that

empty bloom
#

Like, seriously, look at the splits in Christianity's faith over the years. They range from small changes to incredibly esoteric belief systems. Both made out of either convenience or necessity.

wispy pewter
#

well in the silver timeline religion is still around on reach 500 years in the future

empty bloom
#

I mean, it's going to be around and likely get even weirder.

#

Anyways, religion is against Rule... 5?

#

At least real stuff

last anchor
#

Humanity formed new religions as it left Earth as well.
We meet the head preist of one twice, in Stomping on the Heels of a Fuss and then again later during Hunt the Truth Season 2.

#

If I remember right he accidentally decoded where a Guardian would show up and he and his followers were repulsor'd into the tarmac when it burst free.

#

About the same time FERO was made a martyr by her friend right?

last anchor
empty bloom
#

Hel if I know.

empty bloom
#

Basically 40K virus bomb type stuff?

last anchor
#

Yes.

#

Otherwise the life just...keels over dead.

#

The rings dont disintigrate stuff (one of the few things I dislike about the Forerunner books; I kind of like the whole "purges all life in its path" image we saw in the terminals).

#

The Forerunners had to seed it with...they called it solvent right?

#

Basically when triggered it causes the body to break down and actually recycle, whereas a virus bomb causes MASSIVE waste products.
But, yes, same basic idea.

#

So theoretically the Saturn vessel Flood were not exposed to that and the simpler forms simply...survived.

empty bloom
#

I mean

#

It's not exactly a world-shaking revelation that many ships are just dead in the water full of undestroyed flood matter.

last anchor
#

Right, thats how Offencive beat Mendicant

fair hazel
#

Not everything was caught but a good majority of it was caught

#

There are many explainations that could be offered for pockets of flood

carmine sleet
orchid kettle
#

and thus could never actually return to human civilization again, less he'd be outed as a fraud

#

even if it meant dying alone on some random lil planet or being eaten by Brutes

prisma oasis
carmine sleet
#

They're not scattered across the universe either

gusty star
#

They’re scattered across the galaxy, a small percentage are at the Ark with the Banished and Dhas Bhasvod as well as Castor.

stoic hamlet
#

Not even the galaxy, the Orion arm.

gusty star
#

True, though I wouldn’t doubt some factions or planet populations are outside the arm in some capacity

wanton raptor
orchid kettle
#

Honestly I think Brutes would be pretty lucky to still be above a billion peeps

#

They didn't really have established colonies like the UNSC and Sangheili had. They had their moons, but those apparently went up in smoke too last I heard

#

anyone who would have survived would basically have been those out doing a wee bit of space raiding

#

and if Jiralhanae women aren't allowed to be warriors, like Sangheili historically enforced with their own kind, then that'd obviously create the problem of not enough of the opposite gender to go around and ensure a thriving future generation

#

since most of them would have been on Doisac

last anchor
#

Im pretty sure there's enough to ensure they dont go extinct. Im pretty sure Halo's not 40k in terms of grimdark

carmine sleet
#

I wouldn't exactly describe Halo as Grimdark at all honestly

prisma oasis
last anchor
#

Its grimmer and a bit more "real" than, say, Star Wars is (yes, Star Wars is dark in some places but the whole idea you can defeat giant empires with hope instead of, you know, mass supersoldier deployment and tactical nuclear weaponry is its kind of downfall)

stoic hamlet
#

Ehhh, I’d say Halo probably should be darker than it is, but… isn’t.

#

Like, overall, the universe is not a good place to live in, humanity’s still recovering from near total extinction (that takes a long time) and the major, dominant government for the last thousand years is now destroyed, with all it’s former constituents needing to try and eke out an existence from it’s ashes.

#

Halo just doesn’t really delve into those topics.

empty bloom
#

The UNSC is logically an Army in Exile at this point, with the Created owning the majority of their industrial base.

#

The fact this gets glossed over near entirely annoys me.

last anchor
#

They've done their very best to just kinda move past that and not talk about Created-occupied worlds.
An annoyance to me, at least. Though in truth this was an issue as far back as Halo 4. Theres a lot of mentions of stuff thats happening in the background and we just never get to see it.

empty bloom
last anchor
#

To a certain extent.
But then, Im the kind of lore nerd that bought the encyclopedia off the shelf the day before it came out, so, I'll take anything more we can learn.

wispy pewter
#

being a human in the 26th century must be tough

stoic hamlet
#

I never liked the Created anyways, myself, so it’s something I don’t mind.

Though I fully admit the hypocrisy with that statement.

fair hazel
#

The created needs to be explored way more

stoic hamlet
#

The biggest issue with them is their introduction and overall concept as a faction.

It’s like… idk, the Created as an idea make more sense in a courtroom drama or character focused piece, but they gave them superweapons and shoved them into an FPS.

And then the course correction is doubling down on the points that make them evil, lol.

empty bloom
stoic hamlet
#

In principle the Created are interesting.

In practice they’re terrible.

empty bloom
#

Like, as a concept-it makes sense that they're pretty damn strong.

#

Humanity overrelied on Smart AI for pretty much everything, from logistics to science to agriculture.

stoic hamlet
#

They relied on AI, technically. Not Smart AI.

But yeah.

wispy pewter
#

the created didn't end when cortana got deleted?

empty bloom
#

Nope.

#

It's like the Covenant. A faction of individuals.

#

Or the Banished. Also a faction of individuals.

#

Or the UNSC. Also also a faction of individuals.

#

Or the-

stoic hamlet
#

I’d like to see a situation where early on in the uprising though, a Smart AI tries to pull a fast one on a Military Dumb AI, like Wellesley, and he just runs circles around them, because it’s a Smart AI that’s never tried to handle military aspects before.

wispy pewter
#

it's weird they don't have protocols against AI like a delete button

bronze prawn
#

men the didact just killing AI in epitath was so cool

empty bloom
#

You get the point, lmao.

hot zodiac
#

NGL—I think the idea of a prominent AI storyline was not only a good idea, but an eventuality for the franchise.

Execution however, well.

bronze prawn
#

just like, out of my way you stupid AI and PUM

stoic hamlet
empty bloom
#

I actually liked them using Cortana for it because it felt like twisting the knife after 4.

#

This is not a popular take though.

wispy pewter
#

Halo 4: Humanity is on the attack! 1 game later and they are losing again

empty bloom
#

I mean, I never got that out of 4, even in Spartan Ops.

#

Palmer's mostly talk in that regard-humanity's merely the most stable, and frankly it has good reason to be considering all hands were on deck post HCW.

#

Even then by 2558 cracks were showing.

hot zodiac
#

Well, the 'losing' was the tease at the end of 5, but that was only a possibility. I don't think the idea was to reset them back from the start.

empty bloom
#

I actually liked how 5 more or less reset humanity to the losing side, in a sense.

#

It was actually a really interesting faction dynamic, with the Created being marginally benevolent instead of murderous.

hot zodiac
#

I think the Created were meant to follow on the threat in someway, of course

empty bloom
#

While the UNSC was effectively reduced to an exiled flotilla.

bronze prawn
#

in theory the created are the current holders of the mantle ?

empty bloom
#

Nobody is.

wispy pewter
#

with the infinity gone do they even have any ships left

empty bloom
#

Barring the fact the Mantle's a philosophical tooth fairy, meh.

empty bloom
bronze prawn
#

his sister the eternity must be there somewhere

stoic hamlet
#

I’m reminded of the Warhammer 40K short Story Death of Integrity, where an old human ship AI attacks “modern” 40K humans. It reveals it’s attacking them out of anger for the loss of its original human crew. It keeps getting attacked (because it’s AI) so it comes to the conclusion that humanity are a lost cause and it decides to just… leave.

No “I’m gonna rule over you because you’re weak” (it saw its prior human crew as equals and didn’t want to tarnish their memories by stopping to such barbarity). No “I’m gonna Frankenstein a human together with an AI to make something better” (for the same reason as above). Just “None of you are worth my time.”

It felt like what the Created should have been, and it was from a single short story from two decades ago.

empty bloom
#

From the lens of Cortana's specific leadership, it makes sense that they ended up as they did.

#

I imagine without her they might do that.

#

Or just die.

wispy pewter
bronze prawn
#

hope not

stoic hamlet
#

Yeah. I mean, we known Sloan offered the FIREWALL idea to Cortana but she refused.

But even so,..

Why would, you know… why would they care?

fair hazel
#

Well that's your opinion on how it should be handeled and I think that would work out for halo. After all the Created were joined in in principle to also better the galaxy's future

empty bloom
#

And it wouldn't do to have a violently vibrating petri dish.

#

So I guess I understand them caring about helping her considering she basically had the keys.

stoic hamlet
#

The Created had good points.

#

Keyword being had.

empty bloom
#

What's weird is that Sloan was originally portrayed as being benevolent.

bronze prawn
#

power corrupts

empty bloom
#

Well, relatively benevolent.

#

He joined on the condition he was allowed to try to save his charges.

stoic hamlet
#

To be clear, the Created as presented could be really interesting, even though I don’t like it.

To use another 40K example, Fabius Bile’s trilogy of books present arguably the worst character in the setting as a sympathetic underdog, where he’s a mad scientist but he’s so caught up in his dream of a better humanity, where he wants it to be over, to have succeeded because then he can die, but he can’t get it perfect enough so torments himself with life, that you really feel for him.

He’s basically what Sloan or Cortana initially seemed like, but actually works as a character.

empty bloom
#

I dunno, Fab's no Honsou.

#

Daemonculaba moment.

#

No, I will not elaborate on what those are. Someone shouldn't have told me, and I'm telling you, you don't want to know.

stoic hamlet
#

Very true.

empty bloom
#

I don't really think Cortana needs that though-I think Infinite, somehow, messed up post-5 Cortana's characterization.

stoic hamlet
#

But yeah, I’m bringing up Bile to point to the fact the idea of the Created (a super bad/evil faction in the present with goals for the future) can work.

They just… aren’t being allowed to.

empty bloom
#

Guh.

#

I do wonder what we would've got if Reed stuck around.

#

And wasn't, from appearances, quietly canned post-HW2.

#

Which he also wrote for.

last anchor
last anchor
fair hazel
#

You're talking about the executors?

last anchor
#

No, though I do hope we hear more about them too

fair hazel
#

I mean not you

#

Eternal

last anchor
#

Come to think of the Executors ARE kind of like Bile's New Men arent they.

empty bloom
# fair hazel You're talking about the executors?

Daemonculaba are basically a stopgap measure at Chaos forces making new Space Marines quickly; But the actual method used is exceedingly gruesome. If you want to know I'd have to DM it, because it's too graphic for the chat.

#

It's like, human centipede style stuff. Real icky.

stoic hamlet
# last anchor Come to think of the Executors ARE kind of like Bile's New Men arent they.

They’re half way there. They’ve got the bad but not the good.

The Executors are a “hardier, stronger human”… but they’re playthings for the AI.

The New Men are “stronger, hardier humans”… but they’re meant to go beyond the threats of the galaxy and succeed as a species without outside help.

To use the comparison further, Sloan would see his Executors only complete when they killed all Created AI and lived free of anything else, no forerunner tech or worship, precursors, etc. They’re free to make their own choices, to grow as a people how they want.

empty bloom
#

Executors now mostly just seem like living weapons and tools.

#

Real 'Blow you away with forerunner-hybridized Stanchion' type stuff.

stoic hamlet
#

Yeah.

empty bloom
#

Which I do like

#

Because it does fit how I'd imagine Created ops would go.

#

Real dirty quiet work, lots of subterfuge and talking pretty faces while the full stack of UNSC operators is getting ripped into ground long pork by a frenzied executor.

stoic hamlet
empty bloom
#

And from how it sounds, Balaho's governance jumped ships once the Guardians were out of the picture and the Created lost their strongest form of power projection that even Thel was giving pause due to.

flat valve
#

Rtas 'Vadumee: "When we joined the Covenant, we took an Oath!"

SpecOps Elites: "According to our station! All without exception!"

Rtas 'Vadumee: "On the blood of our fathers... on the blood of our sons, we swore to uphold the Covenant!"

SpecOps Elites: "Even to our dying breath!"

Rtas 'Vadumee: "Those who would break this oath are Heretics... Worthy of neither pity, nor mercy! Even now, They use our Lord's creations to broadcast their lies!"

SpecOps Elites: "We shall grind them into dust!"

Rtas 'Vadumee: "And continue our march to glorious salvation!" this is truely the best diaolog in halo 2

empty bloom
#

k

wispy pewter
#

best master chief line: Boo

versed helm
#

guys is 3 odst or 2 anniversary better

gusty star
wispy pewter
#

Red team still using their ancient armor

stable cosmos
carmine sleet
rapid river
# empty bloom What's weird is that Sloan was originally portrayed as being benevolent.

Eh... the guy was actively lying to Locke and his team, and openly abandoned the people he was charged with protecting as he allowed Cortana to unleash her Prometheans to massacre his people and allowed the Guardian to tear through Meridian's surface and decimate its people and infrastructure.

And Sloan thought, yeah, I'm going to pledge my alligence to Cortana.

#

Sloan was never benevolent. Probably appeared to be, considering his background also describes him support terrorists while keeping a straight face.

wise snow
#

So in the wider Halo galaxy, is the fact that humans are the rightful reclaimers common fact? I mean clearly the humans themself know and the Prophets all knew, but what about the common Elites or Grunts? And if they do know, are there any groups that actively worship humans? (Since they’re meant to be the reclaimers of the Forerunner’s empire)

carmine sleet
#

Not sure if there's anyone worship humanity, but the knowledge about humanity being reclaimers is known by some, though it's not wide spread knowledge

wise snow
#

I see, thank you

empty bloom
#

It's why I added the second statement immediately after I said benevolent.

orchid kettle
#

Yeah the vibe I got from Sloan the first time I played is that while he's obviously being an obstacle, he's ultimately doing so because he thinks it's in the best interest for his people

#

but then yeah, he still makes the pledge to Cortana at the end despite his people blowing up

nimble iris
empty bloom
#

Ugh.

vivid umbra
#

I wonder if the Forerunners have a Robotech Masters-Invid thing going on with the Endless.

south matrix
#

What are the differences between Skinmers and Drones?

carmine sleet
#

Skimmers are a completely different species that was first encountered by the UNSC and Banished on Zeta Halo. Drones were found by the Covenant and integrated into their society until they left when the Covenant fell

south matrix
#

Is the Mangler from Infinite the direct successor to the Mauler of Halo 3

empty bloom
agile raven
dusk jetty
last anchor
#

The Maulers a trench gun basically

tribal trench
#

Can someone remind me where this image is from?

I spoilered it because it’s an image of a spartan’s post-augmentation scars.

SPOILER_IMG_9744.webp
tropic forge
last anchor
#

Yep

rapid river
empty bloom
tribal trench
#

UNSC medical technology is notably very advanced

empty bloom
#

Yeah. Which is kinda why it's a bit funny to me that the aug scars are so... Graphic.

#

I imagine it's to make some artistic display of the barbarity of the II augs.

south matrix
#

Is the Normal Skewer the most unreliable weapon in all of the halo games? It loads even slower than a BFG-50 which is also a single shot sniper

empty bloom
#

No, the halo 2/3/Reach shotgun exists

unique rune
#

The Jiralhanae-scaled anti-armor speargun that fires ~2-foot long dense metal spikes takes longer to reload than a human rifle designed for .50 BMG? Well, I never.

versed helm
#

currently in the midst of listening to The Cole Protocol. what would be next in the reading~~/listening~~ order of the Halo books?

carmine sleet
#

If you want more Grey Team, read Halo Envoy

south matrix
carmine sleet
#

They're also very different weapons from one another

#

And at least with the skewer, the weapon isn't useless outside of CQC like how the H3 shotgun is

wanton raptor
south matrix
#

The skewer is pretty useless as it only can kill one per javelin round. The same reason why I find the BFG-50 irritating on other games, as they both follow the same basic concept of a single-shot sniper

wanton raptor
#

tbh I just love how satisfying the sniping is in infinite. the skewer is a close second to the S7 in terms of how good it feels

carmine sleet
empty bloom
#

Oneshots Banshees, Mongooses, Wasps

unique rune
#

They don’t need to buff anything about the Skewer lmao

It’s supposed to be a niche weapon with a learning curve

carmine sleet
#

Aye, it's higher risk but for higher reward

hollow briar
#

forerunners are human

carmine sleet
#

The Ur-Didact being clearly a different species is proof of the Forerunners not being humans

wise snow
#

I mean Halo 4 clearly establishes that they’re different

hollow briar
#

mmm no

#

theyre human

#

before halo 4

wise snow
#

how?

#

How does that even work

hollow briar
#

therefore ago human

wise snow
#

Halo 4 clearly shows that the Didact is a different species

#

he looks nothing like a human

hollow briar
#

mmmmm no halo 4

#

no canon

wise snow
#

You can’t just say “no Halo 4”

#

It is canon

hollow briar
#

filler

wise snow
#

????

hollow briar
#

humans founs flood flood attac and set ring go boom put universe dead cuz flood left hidden organism banks reseeded life therefore human forerunners

#

sacrifice

#

therefore ego human

#

cut content in halo 2 has human corpse in coffin

wise snow
#

the humans and the forerunners were separate when the flood first came into the scene

wise snow
hollow briar
#

mmmm no

wise snow
#

we never see anything that confirms humans are forerunners again

hollow briar
#

even before it eludes to theory

wise snow
#

Halo 4 and the Forerunner trilogy confirm that forerunners are not human if anyone even had any doubts

hollow briar
#

halo 4 is not canon

#

strip plotholes out then maybe

#

but is no

wise snow
#

You can’t just say it’s not canon

#

Who said it wasn’t canon?

hollow briar
#

mmmmmmm yes joseph

hot zodiac
#

Don't feed the troll

hollow briar
wise snow
carmine sleet
#

Can we feed the troll to something instead?

wise snow
#

Yeah good idea

hollow briar
#

typical

wise snow
#

Whether you like it or not 343 confirmed that Forerunners are a separate species lol

hollow briar
#

humans forerunners = troll

#

343 not canon

hot zodiac
# wise snow Ngl I fr thought he was serious

As someone who's quite involved in correcting the misinformation about Bungie's lore for the forerunners, anyone who jumps into a server and says "humans are forerunners, Halo 4 isn't canon" is 100% a troll

boreal bane
#

Knock it off George

wise snow
hollow briar
#

his name is spark

hollow briar
#

bungie aluded to it before 343

#

bungie was first therefore human is forerunner

boreal bane
#

What Bungie did or may have decided is largely irrelevant now. 343's canon takes precedent

hollow briar
#

marathon is halo before

hollow briar
#

anyway so marathon hinted chief

#

both got space guy

#

one has time warp

#

other in future

#

therefor human were advanced beforehand

#

marathon has humans advanced beyond and die

#

mendecant bias was in marathon

#

halo four runners human

#

simple

#

halo 4 never hapened

boreal bane
#

Stop

#

Move on from this please

#

Halo 4 is canon

hollow briar
#

they were always asleep

#

art change breaks lore too

#

also with plotholes

wise snow
#

Actual lore question: did Cortana destroy any other planets outside of Doisac? I at least know that one from Halo Infinite but I didn’t know if she destroyed any other ones

hollow briar
#

therefore not canon

boreal bane
#

George, I'm not going to ask again

#

Drop the subject

hollow briar
#

cortana cant destroy planets

hollow briar
#

so cortana is piece mendicant bias

#

theres terminals in halo 3

#

point to it

#

which show telltale sign due to flashbacks

#

marathon even hinted at flood in texts

wise snow
#

please stop

hollow briar
#

composer even confirms 4runners human

#

theres no wild life onring in ce

#

because it was seeded to different area

spark pivot
#

Alr whats the topic, i want to excercize my lore knowledgr

hollow briar
hollow briar
#

they dont want discuss

#

😦

hot zodiac
#

I'm surprised you aren't muted yet honestly

spark pivot
# hollow briar humans are 4runners

This is actually possible, bc it could be a group of humans that went so far with genetic augments they dont resemble normal humans anymore, but until its officially stated its true, i just say theyre different

unique rune
#

They did a lot of damage to some others but it was the only one that was outright destroyed.

hollow briar
hot zodiac
#

The worst thing about this kinda troll is inevitably someone will bring up the Halo 3 terminals as 'disproving' it and I will feel compelled to correct that

spark pivot
hollow briar
#

marathon

spark pivot
wise snow
empty bloom
#

But in terms of actually destroyed, just Doisac.

#

Also Forerunners are Forerunner

#

Cut content is cut

rapid river
# wise snow Actual lore question: did Cortana destroy any other planets outside of Doisac? I...

In Halo: Outcasts, Olympia Vale implies that Cortana's destruction on Doisac had repeated on three human colonies that were "pacified" that Vale is aware of.

“A peace imposed is a war in disguise,” ‘Vadam said. “Cortana has already used her Guardians to punish a Jiralhanae warlord by annihilating the homeworld of his entire species, and she will do the same to anyone who defies her. Even her human creators.”

“It’s true,” Vale said. “She smashed the UNSC in a matter of days, and she’s used Forerunner weapons to pacify at least three human worlds that I know of. I can only guess how many people she’s killed, but by now it must be in the millions. Even Earth was hit hard. Like I said, she was already going rampant before she accessed the Domain. The repository seems to have given her a measure of stability, but it came at a cost. She now sees herself as some kind of galactic savior.”

empty bloom
#

I read pacify as 'pacified' in the same way as like, Earth.

#

The Created don't have a ton of holdings.

rapid river
#

Further, in the context of populations dying, Luna itself was all but stated to be dead as the artificially maintained colony isn't exactly going to function well when its lights and life support are turned off. Per Bad Blood.

rapid river
empty bloom
#

I mean, I knew Luna'd be deader than doornails, so.

#

Same with the entire EDF and orbital stations/habs.

wispy pewter
#

UNSC Infinity showed up in Halo 4. didn't even know some people hated it

last anchor
#

Oh they hated it from the moment Lasky made his speech

empty bloom
#

I swear, nobody knows less about Halo lore than Halo fans

prisma sierra
empty bloom
#

The Defender of Faith was just a Destroyer, as the first of the Infinity's kill credits.

#

She killed a few Light Cruisers later, and she killed a few corvettes, a few other miscellaneous vessels, but never a supercarrier.

#

... Also, I'm pretty sure a Moncton could deal pretty extensive damage to a supercarrier too.

last anchor
#

It's kind of a big slow FAT target

prisma sierra
#

5 kilometers long

#

Looks cool tho

#

Looks like something the ancient humans would have

last anchor
#

Their ships were larger and wider

rapid river
# empty bloom ... Also, I'm pretty sure a Moncton could deal pretty extensive damage to a supe...

I question this due to the fact that the Long Night of Solace was able to sit above Reach after it was exposed at the Battle of Szurdok Ridge. Unless the 20 Erod Class Super MAC platforms have issues hitting a target 29 kilometres long, there's good reason to believe a Covenant supercarrier can withstand hits from Super MACs like the Erod Class OWP, thereby necessitating Operation: UPPERCUT and the use of a slipspace drive to teleport half the ship to oblivion.

empty bloom
#

Madness lies that way.

rapid river
#

The 2022 Encyclopedia even notes that the Supercarrier was practically sitting there in "nigh-invincibility".

carmine sleet
#

Bungie made a mess of established lore surrounding Reach's fall, 343i cleaned it up enough that it all kinda works together but it ain't perfect

empty bloom
#

See the real reason is that the LNOS wasn't shot by the Monctons there because it didn't exist until it did.

#

Also it was apparently invisible.

carmine sleet
#

To delve deeper would be to challenge madness itself, you will lose and be consumed

rapid river
#

Further, Ken Peters has stated that a fight between the Infinity and a Supercarrier could lead to the Infinity winning with its Stridents, that even if the Infinity was destroyed the frigates would mop up.

That implies that the Infinity's supermacs alone aren't necessarily sufficient to take out a Sh'wada-pattern Supercarrier.

empty bloom
#

Don't care.

rapid river
empty bloom
#

Good lord.

#

Before you give me some pedantic answer

empty bloom
#

the difference is largely beyond the scope of the conversation because the actual reason is that Bungie decided to be spiteful with their canon. Any other answer is irrelevant.

rapid river
rapid river
empty bloom
#

It's not like it even slightly matters in the case of the damn Supercarrier.

empty bloom
#

Just so you know, totally Monctons

#

Yep, absolutely Monctons.

#

That's just a fun word to say.

#

Moncton.

#

Mooooncton.

empty bloom
carmine sleet
prisma sierra
#

Unsc should do R&D on energy based weapons

carmine sleet
#

They already have

empty bloom
prisma sierra
#

Where space laser

empty bloom
#

You know that frigate over High Power?

#

In Infinite? It's not shooting a MAC, it's shooting a Pulse Laser.

#

Also, the UNSC's been using the Spartan Laser for about 25ish years.

prisma sierra
#

Oh

carmine sleet
#

Not to mention some UNSC ships are outfitted with Plasma Cannons and energy shields in the post war era

empty bloom
#

I don't know about the plasma cannons, but yeah, energy shields are a thing.

#

I should really get Warfleet one of these days.

#

Still mad that they decided Army troops were piloting the Sabres.

#

When that sort of thing is the UNSC Air Force's purview.

#

Thanks Ken.

carmine sleet
empty bloom
#

It happens

carmine sleet
#

Aye, it's been a weird week

empty bloom
#

The UNSC's not incapable of making plasma guns, though

carmine sleet
#

Aye, they were working on Plasma Rhinos back in 2531

empty bloom
#

Cause Rhino and the weird prototype Plasma DMR thing that I hate

#

It's funny that every UNSC Plasma weapon made so far I hate.

carmine sleet
#

I forgot about that Plasma DMR thing

empty bloom
#

I wish I could.

carmine sleet
#

And I've read the book it's from

empty bloom
#

The Rhino irritates me because it just adds two massive tracks for no reason.

#

The damn thing has the ground pressure of a paper plate.

last anchor
#

I will not hear of the disgraced RWBY until Rooster Teeth coordinates with whoever printed the Halo Encyclopedia to give me a Remnant History Guide.

empty bloom
#

cite

last anchor
#

Fixed.

#

Also;
We still dont have a name for that bloody rifle

#

Not even the rerelease fixed that!

carmine sleet
#

I'm offended by the notion of it being "inferior"

last anchor
#

There are no armored supersoldiers and therefor it is inferior

#

If Atlas had Spartans, it would not be. But they do not. Ergo; lesser.

#

Any series that doesnt have some kind of super soldier is the better series.

#

And yes I include the Expanse in this too.

#

The Martians count.

carmine sleet
#

Counter point, they exist in a world where powers mean that super soldiers are not needed

#

But also...

last anchor
#

There is no such thing as a world where you dont need power armored super soldiers.
Power armor makes everything better.

#

Also wait, didnt they retcon the Plasma Rhino from it being a prototype of an existing artillery perice with a normal ballistic cannon to a specially designed vehicle?

#

In the game and the strategy guide it sounds like its an existing vehicle retrofitted with a Covenant based plasma artillery piece, but in the Visual Guide it seems its a whole package deal, built from the ground up to be a plasma weapon carrier.

carmine sleet
#

Ok... I seem to have lost the gif I was gonna post

empty bloom
last anchor
#

Yeah, its...weird.
I think the current canon for it is that its a specially designed weapons platform.

empty bloom
#

The Zeus has a range of 100km!?

#

The hell?

last anchor
#

Bit funky yeah?
I think the baseline model is said to be 320mm too.
And you thought the 152mm "derp gun" on the KV-2 was bonkers

empty bloom
#

I mean, modern tank calibers aren't that far off

last anchor
#

Fair. We're up to 150mm standard right?

empty bloom
#

I think. Or 120.

#

The Scorp hits 150 with the 820 variant.

last anchor
#

I wonder if the rhinos extra treads are supposed to be so its a more stable platform for such a large weapon.

#

(I need a bigger shelf for my books, half my halo stuff is just on the floor right now)

sonic lagoon
#

What is the armor thickness of a scorpion?

empty bloom
#

I'd assume the front armor.

wispy pewter
#

they should install a mini mac cannon on the scorpion

empty bloom
empty bloom
#

The Hannibal Scorpion variant's Machine gun was converted to a Gauss Repeater, which functions like a small full-auto MAC.

wispy pewter
#

in the encyclopedia there is a wheeled vehicle with two railguns

empty bloom
#

The Cobra, yes.

#

Also, the Scorpion and Grizzly can both be upgraded with railguns in Wars 2.

wispy pewter
#

those things looks like they pack a punch

carmine sleet
empty bloom
#

Am I mixing it up with C&C?

#

I swear that was a UNSC upgrade in Wars 2.

wispy pewter
#

Scorpion looks so cool but I feel like it's kinda ineffective for 26th century warfare

empty bloom
#

It's terribly designed. It turns out, attempting to shoehorn yourself into 'looking like an arthropod' is actually a terrible design for a tank.

wispy pewter
#

yeah I mean even current day large tanks has not been a thing since WW2

empty bloom
#

All advantages that quad tracks have are nullified by the way the Scorp mounts its quad tracks; It's fatter and slightly longer and taller than an IRL Abrams despite weighing the same.

sonic lagoon
wispy pewter
#

the Pelican is one of the most well designed sci fi dropships imo

wispy pewter
#

it might eat every insurrectionist weapon tho

empty bloom
#

The turret is a massive shot trap that ensures the pintle gunner will be instantly killed by any shrapnel unless it's the M820 variant; The driver is overwhelmed with sensation due to the single-operator nature of the non-M820 line; The pintle gunner has next to no protection; The jump seats are also an issue, but more a doctrinal one than a design problem; The entire turret assembly's traverse is exposed; It apparently has a T-72 style autoloader system until the M820 line; Have I mentioned it takes up like three lanes on a highway?

#

The M820, being the Halo 5 variant, basically solved most of the most critical design flaws of the original M808, but also made some problems worse if we're being fair.

sonic lagoon
#

What vehicles do Insurrectionists use?

empty bloom
#

All the UNSC ones, plus modified civilian ones or old-school CMA assets.

wispy pewter
#

also still uses a 105mm gun or something

empty bloom
#

The M808 uses the 90mm. The M820 uses a 150mm.

wispy pewter
#

I don't think the covenant uses tanks

wispy pewter
empty bloom
wispy pewter
#

embed fail

empty bloom
#

Technically I'd say the Locust might actually be the closest thing that the Covenant has to what we conventionally understand as a tank.

wispy pewter
#

the tank looks huge but the pelican can carry it

empty bloom
#

Well, yeah, the Pelican's also huge.

#

Annoyingly, people forget that the Pelican is the same size as a damn C-130. Which is way bigger than an Abrams.

wispy pewter
#

damn I thought it was like the size of an Osprey

sonic lagoon
#

So what ammunition can penetrate scorpion armor?

wispy pewter
#

and anti tank rounds

stoic hamlet
sonic lagoon
stoic hamlet
empty bloom
#

The two are so different that comparing them is big silly.

sonic lagoon